[Amber Rain]

Do you guys think it is worth it to upgrade from an CMA600i to the Twelve non Master? What are the differences sound wise?

Why do you want to change? I have the 600i also and am vey happy with it, it also has analogue inputs which the 12 doesn't have. I read reviews on the 12 which said it had a very black background (not that I can hear any noise on the 600i).

 

[Mightygrey]

Do you guys think it is worth it to upgrade from an CMA600i to the Twelve non Master? What are the differences sound wise?

I'd personally keep my 600i over the Twelve (having spent some proper time with both) due to the fact that you can still use an analogue-in with the CMA600i - meaning you can use other DACs, turntables etc.

 

[UntilThen]

I have the Twelve Master, this amp is very very good for all headphones...

Omg all those headphones with the CMA 12 Master. Maybe I shouldn't sell my 12 then but I'm itching to try another amp.

 

[UntilThen]

I'd personally keep my 600i over the Twelve (having spent some proper time with both) due to the fact that you can still use an analogue-in with the CMA600i - meaning you can use other DACs, turntables etc.

Oh come on mate, now I can't sell my 12 now.

 

[UntilThen]

Alright that was a bit of tongue in cheek. Here's my take of the CMA 12. It don't matter to me if I don't sell it because...

1. I actually like how it sound. Even the dac. I have Yggdrasil but it's in my other accommodation. Here I use the CMA 12 dac into my other amps and in balance connection. Sounds very good to me those ak4490 implementation on the cma 12.

2. Lately I've been using cma 12 > Schiit Mjolnir 2 with Hekse but when I listen to Hekse driect into CMA 12, it's just as good. So on it's own, I do like this all in one unit.

3. Which brings me to my last point. As an all in one unit, you will have to pay double to get better than this cma 12. So I might keep it for when I need to go on holidays at the beach house. Just bring this AIO, laptop and my Hekse and I'm set.

4. If I do want to upgrade from this AIO to another AIO then it would be the Violectric v590, which is the reason I'm trying to sell off my CMA 12 but that twice the price.

 

[Mightygrey]

Oh come on mate, now I can't sell my 12 now.

If I used digital sources only, the Twelve would unquestionably be my go-to all-in-one unit. It does have a terrific remote and makes for a better pre-amp. The one thing I don't like about the CMA600i (aside from the USB implementation) is the fact that the pre-outs are always on - you can't mute them. I've been fooled more than once into thinking that the bass performance on my headphones was suddenly amazing, before realising that my sub-woofer was playing the whole time!

 

[UntilThen]

^^ hahaha like woah how did so much bass suddenly come from. That could be the better way of listening lol.

Ive experience it before because my speakers are right there with the head-fi gear but no sub.

 

[slsmaster]

I'd personally keep my 600i over the Twelve (having spent some proper time with both) due to the fact that you can still use an analogue-in with the CMA600i - meaning you can use other DACs, turntables etc.

So despite the CMA Twelve having a slightly more powerful amp, a little less noise (in theory) and the "non clicking" USB implementation, there is no audible difference between the units (600i and Twelve)?
Does the "Bias Control" feature make a difference or is the tuning of the Twelve any different then the 600i?
I am aware of the CMA Twelve missing the analog in, which is quite a shame but I currently don't really need it.

Thank you guys for your answers.

 

[UntilThen]

Would have to wait for @Mightygrey to answer your question because he has experience with both. I have the 12 but only heard the CMA400i briefly the other day when I went to the shop to pick up my LCD-3f. From that quick one song, I thought the 400 sounded pretty similar to the 12 but again it's one song and it's at the shop.

I can't pick out the difference using the 12's bias control so I left it on always. I have quite a few solid states here with me at home but I still feel the CMA 12 is worthy of a place on the shelf.

A picture at the shop with one 400 and two 12.


With Wa22, v280 and SPL Phonitor X.

 

[slsmaster]

Would have to wait for @Mightygrey to answer your question because he has experience with both. I have the 12 but only heard the CMA400i briefly the other day when I went to the shop to pick up my LCD-3f. From that quick one song, I thought the 400 sounded pretty similar to the 12 but again it's one song and it's at the shop.

I can't pick out the difference using the 12's bias control so I left it on always. I have quite a few solid states here with me at home but I still feel the CMA 12 is worthy of a place on the shelf.

A picture at the shop with one 400 and two 12.


With Wa22, v280 and SPL Phonitor X.

Thx for the reply, very nice setup you have. I am a little hyped of the Violectric V380 or V590, they seem to be very capable and similar to the Questyle but with better specs (and a higher price lol).
If the SQ differnce is only minor or non existend between the 600i and Twelve, I will stick with my 600i as the upgrade would run me about 500 bucks (and the 600i has an analog in which is indeed a nice feature).

 

[UntilThen]

No reason for you to change then. Having a separate dac is always better unless you want a neat all in one with a great preamp and lovely remote control. Those are very compelling reasons. To my ears, the ak4490 chip in CMA12 is good enough....

I use it as dac out to my other amps as I dont have Yggdrasil here with me. It’s 300 kms away !

 

[Mightygrey]

Would have to wait for @Mightygrey to answer your question because he has experience with both. I have the 12 but only heard the CMA400i briefly the other day when I went to the shop to pick up my LCD-3f. From that quick one song, I thought the 400 sounded pretty similar to the 12 but again it's one song and it's at the shop.

I can't pick out the difference using the 12's bias control so I left it on always. I have quite a few solid states here with me at home but I still feel the CMA 12 is worthy of a place on the shelf.

A picture at the shop with one 400 and two 12.


With Wa22, v280 and SPL Phonitor X.

Here's my thoughts on the sonic differences between the two. https://www.headfonia.com/questyle-cma-twelve-review/3/

 

[UntilThen]

That's the review for anyone who wants to know about CMA12, to read. My son has the Topping A90 and I've heard it, so I can relate to what's written in the review.

 

[slsmaster]

deleted

 

[TheMiddleSky]

So despite the CMA Twelve having a slightly more powerful amp, a little less noise (in theory) and the "non clicking" USB implementation, there is no audible difference between the units (600i and Twelve)?
Does the "Bias Control" feature make a difference or is the tuning of the Twelve any different then the 600i?
I am aware of the CMA Twelve missing the analog in, which is quite a shame but I currently don't really need it.

Thank you guys for your answers.

I owned 600i for long time, and once I listened to CMA 12 Master, I blew away by the performance.

Black background is much clearer. Fuller body to midrange and bass, with smoother upper mid to treble area. Micro detail and texture improve by margin. Imaging quality is "sharper" on 12 Master, while also add more spacious feel. CMA 12 Master sounds a little sweeter, more fluid, and engaging compare to slight "dry" sounding of 600i.

12 Master is like improve version of 600i in so many ways. True, both still Questyle, which is run the "house character" of Questyle by being balance and close to neutral in presentation.

From my little research, to "upgrade" amplifier from 12 master at the very least I need Wells Audio Milo in Kozmo Vishay mode (DAC + Pre amp from CMA 12 Master). Everything sounds clearer, punchier, more precise imaging (!), with more airy feel on treble.