# JDS Labs C5/C5D (pg96) portable amp/amp+DAC



## ostewart

INFO:
 http://www.jdslabs.com/products/70/c5-headphone-amplifier/
 http://www.jdslabs.com/products/84/c5d-amplifier-dac/
  
  

  
  
*JDS Labs C5 Review:*
  
 I would like to thank John for sending me this engineering sample of the C5 for me to review. I will write as honest review as possible, all opinions expressed are my own, this is a subjective review from many hours of listening.
  
*Gear used:*
 IPod Classic 160gb (rockboxed) – Silver LOD – C5 - Alclair Reference CIEM, Sunrise Audio Dragon2 earbuds
  
  

  
*Packaging, accessories and build quality:*
 Packaging I cannot comment as I did not get proper retail packaging, but from others that received their amps after me it comes with a black box saying JDS Labs on it. Inside you will find the C5 sealed in an anti-static bag and a standard USB cable to charge it. Inside the anti-static bag you will also find 4 adhesive rubber feet for the amp, so it doesn’t slide when on a desk, or doesn’t scratch the back of your DAP when strapped together. I think to fully complete the package, they could include a short mini to mini cable, and maybe 2 amp straps would be a great extra.
  
 Build quality is a strong point of JDS, the casing is machined aluminium, with a matte anodised finish, very smooth to the touch, the end plates are brushed aluminium with all ports very precisely cut and everything fits flush. They include laser engraving on their amps, and you can opt for custom artwork for no extra fee when ordering, a great customisation. Headphone jacks are tight and the on/off switch I very high quality. The bass boost toggle is plastic and doesn’t stick out much, which means that with everything plugged in it is not going to be accidently turned on or off. The volume control is digital, and flicks to both sides and coming back to central, like the old creative mp3 players used to have. You push the volume rocker in to change the gain from 2.3x to 6.5x, also the gain is not something that will be accidently pushed in when in your pocket so no worries about blowing your ears by accidently upping the gain.
  
  

  
*Volume rocker, bass boost and battery:*
 As I mentioned earlier, the volume rocker is digital, and is controlled by Arduino code so it can be reprogrammed. The advantages of digital volume controls is no channel imbalance even at the lowest possible setting, and when implemented well work very well. I would say JDS have got it perfect, if you hold the volume rocker to volume up, it increases to full in a few seconds. But then each individual step is quite small so you can easily fine tune your listening volume (63 steps in total). It works really well for sensitive in-ears as you don’t suffer channel imbalance, but still has enough power for most full size cans.
  
 The volume level is remembered every time you switch the amp off, so when you switch it back on it will be at the same volume from when you turned it off, which is also good and safe, no volume wheel accidently going up when turned off, and also means you don’t have to constantly search for your desired listening lever.
  
 Bass boost is implemented at a 6db increase at 80 Hz, which is perfect for some and not so perfect for others, a common suggestion is to make a 3 way switch, say 3db and 6db increases. I think the bass boost if perfect for cans that slightly lack in the lows, or just normal cans for when you’re out and about for that extra fun. The great thing about the bass boost is that when on it doesn’t interfere a lot with the other frequencies, and it has this kind of theatre bass effect, not a big slam and lots of rumble, just quite a bit of added body and sounds like you’ve turned on a subwoofer in a home theatre setup. I really like this bass boost, and with earbuds or can slightly on the leaner side of things, it really adds to the sound.
  
 Battery life is supposed to be around 14hrs, I have not tested this yet, but other users have had 11-13 hours real time use. The battery only takes around 2-3hrs to fully charge, and the amp can be used whilst being charged, and also the charging circuit cuts off supply to the battery once fully charged. So it will not damage the battery and it also means when fully charged you can run it off USB power purely without worrying about the battery.
  
  

  
*Sound:*
 Ok so where to start, this is a pretty neutral amp, it was made to perform very well in objective tests and also to be transparent like a portable O2. Well they have done a great job, the sound is mainly on the transparent side like the O2 but I do sense that the C5 has slightly forward mids, the lows and highs are where they should be and everything sounds just right. The sound is very controlled, with quick recovery and attack, the lows are tight deep and impactful, and the highs airy and detailed. The C5 has a sort of intimate presentation but also spacious sound, the soundstage isn’t huge, a little larger than average but instruments are accurately placed in the soundstage. Overall the C5 is a fairly neutral and clean amp, with only slightly, and I mean very little, forward mids.
  
  

  
 To give you a better understanding I will compare it to the JDS Labs O2 and C421 (AD8620).
  
*Vs C421 (AD8620)*
 Well we have two quite different amps here, the C5 uses the OPA2227 and the C421 AD8620 op-amp. The C421 has more sibilance in the upper mids, and also details and nuances are more easily heard with the highs being more present and also slightly brighter. But the bass is not as tight and controlled as the C5, and also it sounds a little more congested even though it has a slightly wider soundstage. I think the C421 has a fuller sound, but more aggressive presentation, the C5 sounds a little inoffensive and laid back when compared to the C421, but the C5 sounds better overall as it is more controlled, natural and flat. The C421 is still a great amp and is very fun to listen to, but I prefer the accuracy of the C5, even if the presentation is a little more laid back.
  
  

  
*Vs O2*
 Well the C5 was designed to be like the O2 only in a portable package, I must say when compared side to side they sound very close, but differences are still noticeable. The O2 is better overall, the soundstage is wider with a more spacious presentation, the C5 has quite an intimate presentation but airy sound at the same time.
  
  

  
 Overall the C5 is a winner, with the digital volume being perfectly implemented and a great sound that is nearly as good as the O2. I have the O2 for home and C5 for portable, and am happy with both.
 JDS Labs have excellent customer service, and the prices are very reasonable for the product, this amp can compete with amps below $300 easily. I look forward to future JDS Labs products.
  
*JDS Labs C5D = C5 with DAC*
  
 With the new C5D JDS Labs have made the C5 a whole lot more versatile whilst keeping the same small profile. It now includes a DAC which works with Android, Apple devices (CCK required) and also Macs and PC's.
  
 Usability wise it is almost the same as the C5 but has an extra Bass Boost level, which is around +6dB boost, so it now has a 3 way bass boost which is great as the +9dB original was too much for some headphones. The volume rocker is the same as is the input and outputs. Battery life is also similar with the C5 roughly 11-14 and C5D roughly 7-12 so not much of a difference.
  
 The C5D comes with the same accessories too, charging cable and rubber feet. The paint job is slightly different, and feels a bit more premium. There is a charge/battery switch which allows you to charge the C5D as you listen to it or the battery which is good for on the go usage as you can use it without it draining your device.
  
 Sound wise it is much alike the C5D, mainly neutral with a tad smoothness and warmth, you can use it as just an amp in the same way as the C5 but using the DAC it has no fixes line out, so I cannot comment on the sound of the DAC on it's own but as a combo it is great, a small portable package that powers my German Maestro GMP 400 fine, and sounds great with my Westone UM Pro30 giving them a little more control and detail than straight out of my Fiio X3. The mids are still wonderfully detailed and portrayed, the lows tight and with great extension, and the highs sparkly but never grainy or harsh.
  
 It is an excellent all in one package for on the go and also stationary listening, great for those that want something they can use on the commute and in the office.
  
 I cannot fault JDS Labs on their customer service (some of the best out there) and also their pricing on such amazing products, all JDS Labs products are very modestly priced for the quality and workmanship that goes into each one. Well done John and team!
  
 Tracks used to compare amps:
 Diana Krall - the Girl In The Other Room (FLAC)
 Silverstein - Discovering the Waterfront (320kbps mp3)


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## MusicalChillies

Very interesting and much thinner than a tin! Any idea of price? I fear I may be on an amp tangent....


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## danblank

Excited about this! I am still in the process of comparing a variety of amps to see which will be my final portable setup. This is definitely high on my list. Since this is replacing the c421, I don't think the price will go up at all or by much. I chatted with John a little while back and my impression was that since this was a replacement, there wasn't any big announcement about price. Just my impression though.
  Thanks.
  -Dan


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## danblank

Also - per JDS's Facebook post, they are working on launching this when production is at 80% (they are at 50% now), which I believe is meant to avoid any delays in the initial batch of orders. Pre-ordering will open within 2 weeks.
   
  -Dan


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## juntom10

Cant wait to see more info about it!


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## DMinor

Now you will see more head-fi'ers unloading the C421 to get ready for the C5.


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## danblank

@DMinor - indeed, I actually just bought a c421 from a Head-fier. While I am excited about the C5, my gut is that there will be some nice deals on the c421 as some trade up. The big distinction seems to be in the volume control on the new model, and balance. Not entirely sure of all the changes yet though. 
  Thanks.
  -Dan


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## DMinor

Quote: 





danblank said:


> @DMinor - indeed, I actually just bought a c421 from a Head-fier. While I am excited about the C5, my gut is that there will be some nice deals on the c421 as some trade up. The big distinction seems to be in the volume control on the new model, and balance. Not entirely sure of all the changes yet though.
> Thanks.
> -Dan


 

 The C5 will only come as one version, unlike the C421 with two versions to confuse buyers. LOL.


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## miceblue

Subscribed.


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## ostewart

John also said that the colour will be offered on the preorder then he will see which is most popular and go with that one. I would personally like matte black like the C421 black edition. The C421 is still a great amp so it will be interesting to see how this compares.


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## willmax

It has only been 4 months since the All Black C421 was released, with black PCB and the 2 ohm output impedance as the main upgrade over previous version.
  I jumped straight at it and think it is a great portable amp. I can't believe that it is already about to be superseded


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## antberg

Hi Gain,Bass Boost,Switch Off-On on the behind?


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## ostewart

Don't know yet, but LED looks to be on the front, which is great!
   
  I wonder what op-amp it uses


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## willmax

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> Don't know yet, but LED looks to be on the front, which is great!
> 
> I wonder what op-amp it uses


 

 OPA2227 - same as the one I have in my All Black C421


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## ostewart

I have the AD8620, let's see if this takes it's place,I really enjoy the AD8620 sound


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## willmax

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> I have the AD8620, let's see if this takes it's place,I really enjoy the AD8620 sound


 

 I have the AD8620 mounted on a browndog and I use it with my CMoyBB v2.03 18vR, hence why I got the OPA2227 C421 version, besides I like the warmth it gives to the C421 sound.


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## jseaber

Quote: 





antberg said:


> Hi Gain,Bass Boost,Switch Off-On on the behind?


 
   
  Gain is toggled by pushing the volume control. Bass boost uses the same toggle switch found on c421. Power switch is at the rear (no more hidden LEDs).
   
  The C5 pictured here was an older prototype, missing its bass boost switch. This was quick check of endplate machining accuracy.


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## ostewart

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Gain is toggled by pushing the volume control. Bass boost uses the same toggle switch found on c421. Power switch is at the rear (no more hidden LEDs).
> 
> The C5 pictured here was an older prototype, missing its bass boost switch. This was quick check of endplate machining accuracy.


 
   
  Sounds great John, we are all eager for it to come out!


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## juntom10

I am just thinking...what if it comes with Cameleon colour...it'd be super cool!


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## miceblue

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Quote:
> 
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> 
> ...


 
  Speaking of the volume control, how does that work? It doesn't look like the "dial" used in the c241. Is it the kind of "dial" where it goes to the center and then you move it left/right to decrease/increase the volume?
  Similar to my super-old Creative Zen Nano Plus:


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## jseaber

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Speaking of the volume control, how does that work? It doesn't look like the "dial" used in the c241. Is it the kind of "dial" where it goes to the center and then you move it left/right to decrease/increase the volume?
> Similar to my super-old Creative Zen Nano Plus:


 
   
  Yes, the C5 volume control is an Alps lever like the kind you've described.
   
  Pushing the lever left or right tells C5 to step the volume position by 1dB every 55ms, with zero-crossing detection. We revised the firmware until achieving a smooth and comfortable rate of volume adjustment. The entire range of volume from mute to max takes ~3.5 seconds, and single steps are still possible. Volume and gain positions are saved to the onboard ATmega168 flash.


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## miceblue

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Quote:
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  Sweet, sound great! I miss that kind of volume control. I don't know of any audiophile equipment that uses it. My only concern for it is mechanical failure and how long it'll last since it feels like a spring mechanism. I'm assuming it will last quite some time though.


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## jseaber

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Sweet, sound great! I miss that kind of volume control. I don't know of any audiophile equipment that uses it. My only concern for it is mechanical failure and how long it'll last since it feels like a spring mechanism. I'm assuming it will last quite some time though.


 
   
  Operating life of the Alps lever is spec'ed at 100,000 cycles. Alps potentiometers are rated at only 10,000 cycles.


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## miceblue

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Quote:
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> ...


 
  All righty then, I'm in for the C5 already. 
  I've been looking for a clean-sounding portable amp recently since the O2 is too large to fit in most of the jackets I wear, hahaha. I was going to look in to the C241 more, but it looks like the C5 will be my next audio purchase.
   
  As for colours, the all silver, or all black options sound good to me. It would be really neat to have an electric blue option though if resources allow for it.


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## antberg

Thank you John,we all having great expectations.


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## burrrcub

In on this.


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## Craigster75

Quote: 





antberg said:


> Hi Gain,Bass Boost,Switch Off-On on the behind?


 

 +1- where, oh where, is the bass boost???


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## jseaber

Quote: 





craigster75 said:


> +1- where, oh where, is the bass boost???


 
  See post #17. It's the empty hole in this older prototype...
   
  It'll make sense when we post final pictures.


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## willmax

^ Hi John, 
What is the target price for the C5?
Are u going to continue to manufacture the C421 or is it being superseded by the C5?

Cheers


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## musical-kage

How does the C421 compare to say the O2? That is the only one I have actually heard of that is built by JDS Labs.
  I'm guessing this is an upgrade so should sound better than the C421 if that is infact newer than the O2?


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## ostewart

musical-kage said:


> How does the C421 compare to say the O2? That is the only one I have actually heard of that is built by JDS Labs.
> I'm guessing this is an upgrade so should sound better than the C421 if that is infact newer than the O2?




O2 has the upper hand in clarity and power, but C421 is still a great amp, and way more portable.

What about battery time on C5 John?


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## miceblue

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> Quote:
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  From the Facebook update:
  Quote: 





> Most customers expect at least 8 hours run-time, so 10-12 hours is common with high-end amps. This has not changed.


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## ostewart

Pretty much the same as C421, fine for me


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## jseaber

Quote: 





musical-kage said:


> How does the C421 compare to say the O2? That is the only one I have actually heard of that is built by JDS Labs.
> I'm guessing this is an upgrade so should sound better than the C421 if that is infact newer than the O2?


 
   
  No amp should sound discernibly "better than" O2. At that level of performance, the best you can expect in an A-B comparison is equal transparency.
   
  O2 wins in maximum output power. C5 wins by a longshot in channel balance and ease of portability.


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## musical-kage

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> No amp should sound discernibly "better than" O2. At that level of performance, the best you can expect in an A-B comparison is equal transparency.
> 
> O2 wins in maximum output power. C5 wins by a longshot in channel balance and ease of portability.


 
  Cheers for the reply. I was just wondering what the differences in each model were, and the sound characteristics.
   
  Channel balance? I don't quite understand what that would mean. Better seperation? Or, left to right channels are more equal?


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## miceblue

Quote: 





musical-kage said:


> Quote:
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  Better channel balance as in it won't suffer from the channel imbalance one gets with the O2 (or most volume knob controlled amplifiers) at low levels.


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## jseaber

Quote: 





musical-kage said:


> Cheers for the reply. I was just wondering what the differences in each model were, and the sound characteristics.
> 
> Channel balance? I don't quite understand what that would mean. Better seperation? Or, left to right channels are more equal?


 
   
  Features and specifications will be posted with the preorder announcement. We'll leave subjective reviews up to you guys.
   
  Channel balance is the amount of error between the left and right output signals (i.e., does one side sound much louder than the other?). Any amplifier which relies on an analog potentiometer will exhibit some degree of channel imbalance at the lowest threshold of knob rotation. That imbalance can be severe until you turn the knob past the imbalanced region, usually the first 10-20% of knob rotation.
   
  Analog potentiometers are low cost and perform well--as long as you listen at volumes above the imbalanced region. Implementing a digital volume control without degrading THD+N is a challenge. Done right, it's worth the expense.


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## Craigster75

Does the C421 provide a significant bass boost?  Will the C5 offer a similar bass boost?
  
  Good timing finding this thread.  If I didn't know about the C5, I might have already ordered the FiiO E12.  Now I have a tough decision coming up with Verza on the way as well.


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## miceblue

Quote: 





craigster75 said:


> Does the C421 provide a significant bass boost?  Will the C5 offer a similar bass boost?
> 
> Good timing finding this thread.  If I didn't know about the C5, I might have already ordered the FiiO E12.  Now I have a tough decision coming up with Verza on the way as well.


 
   
  The C421's specs say:
  Quote: 





> Bass Boost, +8dB peak


 
  I'm guessing the C5 is a similar bass boost too.


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## Craigster75

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> The C421's specs say:
> I'm guessing the C5 is a similar bass boost too.


 

 If that is the case, +1 for C5 vs. E12's (+3 dB).


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## etys rule

Wow another creation from JDS. Gotta compete for dollars going towards the highly anticipated E12. Seriously though, I love the c421 with the 2227 opamp. I would have to see more than improved channel balance and a lever Alps control though. And I own the CMOYBB, c421, and O2. Next amp I buy will be the E12. Although I am sure this will sell well.


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## shotgunshane

I personally think 8db is too much of a bass boost. Would love to see a 2 stage implementation of say 3 and 6db. Amp is looking great.


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## Craigster75

Quote: 





shotgunshane said:


> I personally think 8db is too much of a bass boost. Would love to see a 2 stage implementation of say 3 and 6db. Amp is looking great.


 

 I agree this would be the ideal option.


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## cel4145

shotgunshane said:


> I personally think 8db is too much of a bass boost. Would love to see a 2 stage implementation of say 3 and 6db. Amp is looking great.




Agreed. +8db does seem like that's a lot of boost. Most people that would buy a amp at this price point would simply buy Sony XB700s if they wanted their headphones to sound like that


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## miceblue

Quote: 





craigster75 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It's all speculation at this point, that was just my guess. The CMoyBB has a +9.4 dB bass boost. 
  JDS Labs will release the official specs within the next week-ish.


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## jseaber

Quote: 





cel4145 said:


> Agreed. +8db does seem like that's a lot of boost. Most people that would buy a amp at this price point would simply buy Sony XB700s if they wanted their headphones to sound like that


 
   
  Hope I didn't start this rumor! Bass boost is *+6.5dB at 80Hz* and diminishes from there.
   
  We tried a 1-band bass EQ in an early prototype (64 steps), and I wasn't pleased. Everyone preferred the on/off switch. Mechanical switches perform best in measurements as well. This experiment gave us the opportunity to try as few or as many levels as we wanted. At +3dB/+6dB/+8dB, the go-to level was still around +6dB. Real-world users simply desired +0 or +6dB, so that's what we built.
   
  Final production samples landed on my desk early this morning, and initial testing looks normal. THD+N @ 1kHz measures better than 0.001%:


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## juntom10

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Hope I didn't start this rumor! Bass boost is *+6.5dB at 80Hz* and diminishes from there.
> 
> We tried a 1-band bass EQ in an early prototype (64 steps), and I wasn't pleased. Everyone preferred the on/off switch. Mechanical switches perform best in measurements as well. This experiment gave us the opportunity to try as few or as many levels as we wanted. At +3dB/+6dB/+8dB, the go-to level was still around +6dB. Real-world users simply desired +0 or +6dB, so that's what we built.
> 
> Final production samples landed on my desk early this morning, and initial testing looks normal. THD+N @ 1kHz measures better than 0.001%:


 
  Nice!


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## cel4145

Good measurements 

Will you be able to share the output impedance tests when you go live, for those of us with low impedance phones?


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## adamlr

im actually more interested to see WHAT the BB boosts, as opposed to how much. the cMoy BBs boost starts at around 1khz, boosting alot more than just the bass (fiios e11 for example, has a similar boost), so im more interested to know where the boost starts, not so much where it peaks. 
   
  edit: oh, is it at 80hz??


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## miceblue

Quote: 





adamlr said:


> im actually more interested to see WHAT the BB boosts, as opposed to how much. the cMoy BBs boost starts at around 1khz, boosting alot more than just the bass (fiios e11 for example, has a similar boost), so im more interested to know where the boost starts, not so much where it peaks.
> 
> edit: oh, is it at 80hz??


 
  From their Facebook post:
  Quote: 





> JDS Labs, Inc. wrote: "[insert name here]: Bass boost is +6.5dB @ 80Hz, and diminishes from there."


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## etys rule

One thing JDS does exceptionally well, IMO, is bass boost. They seem to get it "just right".  Never muddled, never intrusive.  Whatever they decide, I am sure it will compliment the amp nicely. Even the $50 cmoy-BB thumps just right with it on.


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## ostewart

I agree, bass boost on the C421 is perfect, adds that little extra punch when listening to electronica tracks IMO


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## HideousPride

Will echo what previous posters have said - the bass boost on the C421 was executed very well. Clean, not overpowering, and definitely an enjoyable addition for bass lovers.
   
  Interesting to hear that a new amp is coming out, looking forward to impressions.


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## Craigster75

I may be upgrading my E11.  Any thoughts comparing JDS Labs to the Headstage Arrow?


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## xuan87

Right now, I'm more worried about what the sound signature is like. I first bought my IEM because it sounded perfect with the O2 amp. When I pair it with the JDS C421 OPA2227 version, the final sound became too warm, so I sold it. When I'm finally ready to buy the AD6820, I'm found out that it will be replaced by the C5 which will not be customizable. If the C5 is warm like the C421 OPA2227, I will have to either buy a 2ndhand C421, or look for an offering from another brand. Maybe JDS will consider having 2 options of the C5 too?


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## LoveKnight

Thinking of buying a board ODAC and sending my C421 to JDSLabs to let it be upgraded to C5. Does JDSLabs has that policy? Guess not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


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## antberg

Guys you think JDS will stop produce the C421?


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## Craigster75

Quote: 





antberg said:


> Guys you think JDS will stop produce the C421?


 

 Just a wild guess with no specific info, but IMO yes since it is being presented as a replacement.  V-Moda has the Verza coming out and they are already out of stock on Vamp.  My guess is that production has stopped on those as well.  Of course, confirmation will need to come from JDS.


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## adamlr

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> From their Facebook post:


 

 not just facebook, its posted 3 posts above mine. i was just surprised, starting at 80hz, its hardly a bass boost, more like a sub bass boost, sounds pretty cool actually =]


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## ostewart

C421 production has stopped.


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## antberg

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> C421 production has stopped.


 
  Puta que pariu.I hope is not too late for me,as i am trying to save some money to afford one.I guess i have two choices ,or ask John if he has some model left or find a second hand unit in good condition.Thank for the clue Sir.


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## willmax

[/quote]





antberg said:


> Puta que pariu.I hope is not too late for me,as i am trying to save some money to afford one.I guess i have two choices ,or ask John if he has some model left or find a second hand unit in good condition.Thank for the clue Sir.




Não esquenta, I'm sure you'll find a much better deal second hand, and if I may suggest go for the 2227 version. Boa sorte


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## willmax

.


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## ostewart

Agora falam todos português?

Haha back to English, get the C5 instead ofC421 I would say


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## antberg

hehe,i guess i may give a priority chance to their new toy.


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## jseaber

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> Agora falam todos português?
> 
> Haha back to English, get the C5 instead ofC421 I would say


 
   
  c5 is the better amp, so c421 is discontinued.


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## krugorg

Can't wait to see/hear the C5.
   
  I know this is a long shot, but any chance crossfeed has been added?


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## zerodeefex

Really anxious for this sucker to hit. Any idea on preorder timelines and target ship dates?


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## zerodeefex

Double post


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## aoiziptw

almost pre order the E12.. glad my urge got put away when i saw the C5.


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## RoMee

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> c5 is the better amp, so c421 is discontinued.


 
  lol, wish I had known this, I kept checking the website to see if it'll come back in stock.


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## miceblue

In case anyone doesn't follow the Facebook post:
  Quote: 





> Headphone amplifiers exist to achieve high audio fidelity. C5 is a technical improvement for all users, especially those who use sensitive headphones. New dual LDO's give ultra-low ripple, and that improves every specification. Crosstalk, SNR, THD, and to a smaller extent, output power, all exceed that of c421.
> 
> To the DIY crowd: C5 is programmed in Arduino. We're releasing the firmware under the CreativeCommons BY-SA 3.0 US license.


 
  Yay Arduino! I'll be learning how to program in that soon for a club project.
   
   
  Quote: 





> Price is under $200, and shipments will begin later this month for sure.


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## juntom10

miceblue said:


> In case anyone doesn't follow the Facebook post:
> Yay Arduino! I'll be learning how to program in that soon for a club project.





Wow arduino! Firmware upgradable amp sounds sweet!


----------



## 214324

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> In case anyone doesn't follow the Facebook post:
> Yay Arduino! I'll be learning how to program in that soon for a club project.


 
  Arduino? I'm really excited now. Arduino or Python = lots of programming fun. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I love how simple the two are.
   
  So this is basically like a new variation of the Arduino base board. This is a lot of win right here.
   
  Really curious as to how this performs in respect to other portable headphone amplifiers (O2 included).


----------



## krugorg

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> In case anyone doesn't follow the Facebook post:
> Yay Arduino! I'll be learning how to program in that soon for a club project.


 
   
  Thanks for posting this here.... very cool!!


----------



## miceblue

hybridcore said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > In case anyone doesn't follow the Facebook post:
> ...




Apart from adjusting how the volume control works, I wonder what else you can do with the Arduino code though.

*I just downloaded the Arduino programming software and it kind of looks like Java, although I only took 1 intro to Java class*


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Apart from adjusting how the volume control works, I wonder what else you can do with the Arduino code though.
> 
> *I just downloaded the Arduino programming software and it kind of looks like Java, although I only took 1 intro to Java class*


 
   
  To keep physical size and cost minimal, re-programming requires a 6-pin header and any ISP programmer. The firmware directly controls volume attenuation, gain, LED(s), pushbuttons, and supply rail activation. This basically gives full control over the circuit and user interface. Most importantly, the volume control speed and taper can be modified, and the code serves as an opensource platform for new hybrid analog+digital amps.
   
  So, we're giving the code away to the DIY community. Maybe it'll spark new ideas, or maybe not. Either way, it's entertainment!


----------



## JiPod

Is the C5 available for pre-order? If so, please point me in the right direction.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Woah, that sounds really neat! I can't wait to try it out.
   
  Out of curiosity though, how is the gain digitally controlled? So far, both from what I've learned through the O2's gain settings as well as some electrical theory classes, the gain of a circuit is usually controlled through the physical components of a circuit.


----------



## burrrcub

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> To keep physical size and cost minimal, re-programming requires a 6-pin header and any ISP programmer. The firmware directly controls volume attenuation, gain, LED(s), pushbuttons, and supply rail activation. This basically gives full control over the circuit and user interface. Most importantly, the volume control speed and taper can be modified, and the code serves as an opensource platform for new hybrid analog+digital amps.
> 
> So, we're giving the code away to the DIY community. Maybe it'll spark new ideas, or maybe not. Either way, it's entertainment!


----------



## miceblue

Another Facebook update for you guys:
  For testing the C5:
  Quote: 





> We use Grado SR-60i, Sennheiser HD-280 Pro, Beyerdynamic DT-880, several IEM's (16-32 ohms), and our dScope Series III audio analyzer.
> 
> ...
> 
> The sets we use test the usable range of headphones you guys will present to the amps. IEM's cover high sensitivity, low impedance sets; Grados cover the bulk of the portable headphone market (32 ohms and moderate power demands); the 64-250 ohm sets test the desktop segment. And let's not forget the dScope. That box provides incredible data.


 
  This sounds pretty promising for the C5 being a mini desktop amplifier (for most headphones that is).


----------



## ostewart

Impressive news, really can't wait for this!


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Woah, that sounds really neat! I can't wait to try it out.
> 
> Out of curiosity though, how is the gain digitally controlled? So far, both from what I've learned through the O2's gain settings as well as some electrical theory classes, the gain of a circuit is usually controlled through the physical components of a circuit.


 
   
  MOSFETs take the place of switches.
   
   


burrrcub said:


>


 
   
  Getting close. We plan to open the preorder by next Friday (2/15).


----------



## max111

Any indication of the price of c5?


----------



## imackler

Quote: 





max111 said:


> Any indication of the price of c5?


 
  I think I heard $200. Maybe I read that on FB?


----------



## elbandito

under $200 from what i've read....still considering though, O2 or C5, SQ wise tho, coz i don't mind the bulky size of O2


----------



## RoMee

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Getting close. We plan to open the preorder by next Friday (2/15).


 
  Perfect timing. How many will be available for preorder?


----------



## antberg

Quote: 





romee said:


> Perfect timing. How many will be available for preorder?


 
  Taking in consideration the time JDS are in the market,plus the C421 unit sold since,and the O2 circuitry,i would say 720,25,that if the stock market won't go down until this week end.
  Why ,you want to buy them all?
  haha


----------



## RoMee

Quote: 





antberg said:


> Taking in consideration the time JDS are in the market,plus the C421 unit sold since,and the O2 circuitry,i would say 720,25,that if the stock market won't go down until this week end.
> Why ,you want to buy them all?
> haha


 
  No, I just don't want to be involved in a "black friday" event where everyone stomp over each other for a couple of available units.
  FiiO did that with the E12, so I just skipped the E12.
  If JDS does the same than I'll just move on to the headstage arrow and wait until there's plenty of C5 in stock.


----------



## ostewart

Well he's only making them available when they are made, not a limited number like E12 from what I know.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Features and specifications will be posted with the preorder announcement. We'll leave subjective reviews up to you guys.
> 
> Channel balance is the amount of error between the left and right output signals (i.e., does one side sound much louder than the other?). Any amplifier which relies on an analog potentiometer will exhibit some degree of channel imbalance at the lowest threshold of knob rotation. That imbalance can be severe until you turn the knob past the imbalanced region, usually the first 10-20% of knob rotation.
> 
> Analog potentiometers are low cost and perform well--as long as you listen at volumes above the imbalanced region. Implementing a digital volume control without degrading THD+N is a challenge. Done right, it's worth the expense.


 
   
  OMG I'm not CRAZY!!!!  (well just maybe...)  I ALWAYS notice that with almost every device I have ever used.  Some better than others, but I didn't know if it was my headphones being louder in one driver or something.  So it's the channel balance of the amp!  And this is better than the 02 in that regard?
   
  Overall, I really think I'm leaning towards this as my next amp.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





craigster75 said:


> I agree this would be the ideal option.


 
   
  Triple agree.  I hate when you want that bass right in between... But I think he tweaked it to +6db or so?  That's better, since you will probably use it on songs they "need" more bass, and therefor +3 "might" not be enough.  I'd rather have +3/+6, but +6 is better than +8.
   
  I'm curious if anyone can say exactly "how" much better the 02 is in clarity/quality?  With something like the Senn HD600 for instance, would the 02 be like "wow, i didn't hear that on the c5" or more like "ok, ok, there's a little more clarity, but nothing major..."  ???


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The O2 was designed to be sonically transparent to the human ear, meaning it doesn't exist sonically in an audio rig. The designer of the O2 has an article on his blog about this, but it is illegal to post a link on Head-Fi. If there are sonic differences between the C5 and the O2, it very well could be due to a colouration of the C5, in which objective measurements could probably point this out. How much colouration and whether or not it subjectively "sounds good" is a reason why synergy is often discussed for audio equipment.
   
  Since the C5 isn't released yet, it is hard to say how much of a difference the C5 sounds compared to an O2.


----------



## luisdent

I





miceblue said:


> The O2 was designed to be sonically transparent to the human ear, meaning it doesn't exist sonically in an audio rig. The designer of the O2 has an article on his blog about this, but it is illegal to post a link on Head-Fi. If there are sonic differences between the C5 and the O2, it very well could be due to a colouration of the C5, in which objective measurements could probably point this out. How much colouration and whether or not it subjectively "sounds good" is a reason why synergy is often discussed for audio equipment.
> 
> Since the C5 isn't released yet, it is hard to say how much of a difference the C5 sounds compared to an O2.




Illegal? To link to just his blog or any blog? Is it because he was banned or something?


----------



## ostewart

Just his blog as he was banned, I think it's a bit silly really as it was a while ago, but still.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> Just his blog as he was banned, I think it's a bit silly really as it was a while ago, but still.


 
   
  Wait, so if I want to tell someone about his amp, I can't put a link to his page here?  That seems a bit ridiculous a thing to be "illegal"...  Don't mean to stir up an old issue, but his site has some good information on how we hear things and subjective/objective hearing articles.  What is the difference if I tell someone "go to google and look up his subjective hearing article" or if I just past a link to his article?  It doesn't stop anyone from getting to his page, it just makes it more tedious.  Just my thoughts. :-o  I thought this forum was for audiophiles to share information about audio and headphones, etc?   I would hope anything that helps that cause would be allowed...  Even if the user isn't.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





romee said:


> No, I just don't want to be involved in a "black friday" event where everyone stomp over each other for a couple of available units.
> FiiO did that with the E12, so I just skipped the E12.
> If JDS does the same than I'll just move on to the headstage arrow and wait until there's plenty of C5 in stock.


 
   
  We have 1000+ cases in stock, and we're building enough C5 boards to get through March. That's adequate time to adjust production based on actual demand.


----------



## campj

Quote: 





romee said:


> No, I just don't want to be involved in a "black friday" event where everyone stomp over each other for a couple of available units.
> FiiO did that with the E12, so I just skipped the E12.
> If JDS does the same than I'll just move on to the headstage arrow and wait until there's plenty of C5 in stock.


 
  Huh? There are still E12s available through the Micca store. I don't see anyone stumbling/stomping/falling over each other to buy them.


----------



## RoMee

Quote: 





campj said:


> Huh? There are still E12s available through the Micca store. I don't see anyone stumbling/stomping/falling over each other to buy them.


 
  I was talking about the preorder.


----------



## RoMee

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> We have 1000+ cases in stock, and we're building enough C5 boards to get through March. That's adequate time to adjust production based on actual demand.


 
  Thanks, I just bought a HE-400 so I hope this amp pairs well with it.


----------



## campj

Quote: 





romee said:


> I was talking about the preorder.


 
  Oh, I see.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> We have 1000+ cases in stock, and we're building enough C5 boards to get through March. That's adequate time to adjust production based on actual demand.


 
   
  Nice. Hope to see the spec soon.


----------



## putente

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> We have 1000+ cases in stock, and we're building enough C5 boards to get through March. That's adequate time to adjust production based on actual demand.


 
   
   
  I'm not sure if this has been answered before, but are the case dimensions the same as the c421?


----------



## ostewart

From the pictures it looks quite a bit smaller


----------



## putente

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> From the pictures it looks quite a bit smaller


 
   
  Yes, exactly! Ence my question and I just want John to confirm that to us all, since he stated he has the final cases ready...


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





putente said:


> Yes, exactly! Ence my question and I just want John to confirm that to us all, since he stated he has the final cases ready...


 
   
  Width of C5 is 1mm smaller. c421 always appeared deceptively large in photos. They're actually similar in footprint.


----------



## putente

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Width of C5 is 1mm smaller. c421 always appeared deceptively large in photos. They're actually similar in footprint.


 
   
   
  I actually enjoy the c421's size. Nice to know that the C5 is about the same size...


----------



## RoMee

Since the case design is already finalized, I would love to see more pictures.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





romee said:


> Since the case design is already finalized, I would love to see more pictures.


 
   
  "Pretty" please...


----------



## illusioned

would also like to see if there's any valentine's day edition


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





illusioned said:


> would also like to see if there's any valentine's day edition


 
  A red chassis that has "Will you be my Valentine?" laser engraved on the top. XD
   
  Actually now that I think about it, having a bright red amp might be kind of cool. Chinese New Year is going on this whole week.


----------



## luisdent

miceblue said:


> A red chassis that has "Will you be my Valentine?" laser engraved on the top. XD
> 
> Actually now that I think about it, having a bright red amp might be kind of cool. Chinese New Year is going on this whole week.




That would match my nord piano!!!


----------



## FatmanSize48

Like many others, I caught whiff of this right before giving in to the urge to buy a Fiio E12. This seems like a MUCH better match for the Momentums and CIEMs I will probably be pairing with it.


----------



## HiFan

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> A red chassis that has "Will you be my Valentine?" laser engraved on the top. XD
> 
> Actually now that I think about it, having a bright red amp might be kind of cool. Chinese New Year is going on this whole week.


 

 BTW, they plan the pre-order right after Valentine. It will be interesting if they made some red cases.


----------



## HiFan

I do hope JDS could consider using 49990 as E12, or using ad8620. Or at least make it roll-able.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





hifan said:


> I do hope JDS could consider using 49990 as E12, or using ad8620. Or at least make it roll-able.


 
  Roll-able as in, user swappable?
   
  Quote: 





hifan said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yeah I know it's the day after Valentine's, but it would still be interesting to see a red option. I was looking at the uDAC-2's colour options and I like the purple one too...and dark blue. XD


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





hifan said:


> BTW, they plan the pre-order right after Valentine. It will be interesting if they made some red cases.


 
   
  Those 1000+ cases are awaiting anodizing (1-2 day process). This is a tricky game, as colors appear differently based on the metal finish. It's like picking paint colors, except you have to wait 2 days to actually see the shade you picked.
   
  We have 5+ shades of black, and we're sampling red and several shades of silver. No pictures until colors are finalized.


----------



## imackler

Quote: 





putente said:


> I actually enjoy the c421's size. Nice to know that the C5 is about the same size...


 
   
  I super like the C421 size, too. And that being said, I think the C421 w/ the OPA227 is a _stellar _amp! Am I excited for the C5? Sure. But that doesn't change that if JDS never came out with the C5, I'd still be perfectly happy with the C421. I'm afraid some have indicated that the C421 is a less than great amp. Its a great amp!


----------



## putente

Quote: 





imackler said:


> I super like the C421 size, too. And that being said, I think the C421 w/ the OPA227 is a _stellar _amp! Am I excited for the C5? Sure. But that doesn't change that if JDS never came out with the C5, I'd still be perfectly happy with the C421. I'm afraid some have indicated that the C421 is a less than great amp. Its a great amp!


 
   
   
  I have to completely agree with you. I've put my c421 for sale as nowadays I just use the iBasso P4 (almost all the time, as it's just pure awesomeness with the opamp setup I have) and the E12 (because of the "new toy" syndrome)! But I enjoy the c421 very much, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. It amazed me for a long time, and in the future, I'm almost sure I'll try the C5 too...


----------



## goodvibes

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Wait, so if I want to tell someone about his amp, I can't put a link to his page here?  That seems a bit ridiculous a thing to be "illegal"...  Don't mean to stir up an old issue, but his site has some good information on how we hear things and subjective/objective hearing articles.  What is the difference if I tell someone "go to google and look up his subjective hearing article" or if I just past a link to his article?  It doesn't stop anyone from getting to his page, it just makes it more tedious.  Just my thoughts. :-o  I thought this forum was for audiophiles to share information about audio and headphones, etc?   I would hope anything that helps that cause would be allowed...  Even if the user isn't.


 
  LOL. Nothing is perfect. Lets keep it about the C5. Everybody says they design for perfect. I like his blog a lot but......


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





goodvibes said:


> LOL. Nothing is perfect. Lets keep it about the C5. Everybody says they design for perfect. I like his blog a lot but......


 
   
  Oh, not really a problem per se, but I just question the validity of information from a forum that blocks information I know is reasonable tested, thought out information.  That's all.  I don't want to start anything, but block the user not our ability to share good information.  That's ridiculous.   Is it really not allowed to link to his site?


----------



## luisdent

And regarding the C5, i'm getting really antsy.  I want to see (and hear) this sexy metal box.  haha


----------



## Bananaheadlin

I find the sharp edges of the C421 a little troublesome when using them as portables, but it's a great size nevertheless!


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





putente said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  How does the C421 fare against the E12 sound-wise? I think the C5's major competitors are the E12 and the C&C BH.
   
  I hope the C5 has a non-brushed metal option. I have the ODAC with that finish and it tends to attract a lot of skin particles...kind of gross when you think about it. When I rub my hand in the opposite direction of the grain, it puts a chalky coating on the ODAC, and likewise for any fingernail scratches.


----------



## ostewart

The C421 size is perfect with the iPod classic. It has been my trusty go to amp, I love my C421, and let's see if the C5 will replace it


----------



## putente

miceblue said:


> How does the C421 fare against the E12 sound-wise?


 
   
   
  From the short comparison I've done, the c421 (OPA2227) wins for mids and highs (smoother), and sounstage! It kind of feels more natural. The E12 is more "fun", with a more powerfull bass section and more agressive mids and highs. This, with a  new "straight-out-of-the-box" E12 unit. These findinds are my subjective view about them...


----------



## ostewart

I think the main difference will be channel imbalance not being a problem with the C5, that may swing it for me, but only sound will really swing it, and I will have to be very impressed for it to steal my C421's place, the C421 really is an amazing portable amp, from sound to build quality


----------



## miceblue

Facebook update:
  Quote: 





> We finished verifying benchmarks at 1am this morning. Writing the C5 page and blog announcement today!


----------



## xuan87

Given that the C5 is designed objectively instead of subjectively, and that it is done with the Prism Sound dScope Series III audio analyzer make me highly optimistic that the C5 will be a baby O2 amp that I can finally squeeze into my tight jean pocket together with my music player.


----------



## FatmanSize48

Quote: 





xuan87 said:


> Given that the C5 is designed objectively instead of subjectively, and that it is done with the Prism Sound dScope Series III audio analyzer make me highly optimistic that the C5 will be a baby O2 amp that I can finally squeeze into my tight jean pocket together with my music player.


 
  We can only hope.


----------



## FatmanSize48

Any indication on price yet? I am hoping and expecting it to be <$200.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> Any indication on price yet? I am hoping and expecting it to be <$200.


 
  There's no set price yet (it'll officially be released tomorrow if things go as planned), but it is below $200 USD.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





xuan87 said:


> Given that the C5 is designed objectively instead of subjectively, and that it is done with the Prism Sound dScope Series III audio analyzer make me highly optimistic that the C5 will be a baby O2 amp that I can finally squeeze into my tight jean pocket together with my music player.


 
   
  I will shed a tear.


----------



## xuan87

The ODAC is quite small. If the C5 is as neutral, or near neutral to the O2, isn't it possible for JDS Labs to marry the ODAC to the C5 in a pretty small package that is still highly portable? If that's the case, then anyone with an android phone can have a 100% neutral set up on the go
   
  So it's: Android phone --> USB out --> (ODAC + C5) --> earphones
   
  Someone correct me if i'm wrong, I'm very new to using an android phone with an external DAC and not exactly sure of the pathways and how it works.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





xuan87 said:


> The ODAC is quite small. If the C5 is as neutral, or near neutral to the O2, isn't it possible for JDS Labs to marry the ODAC to the C5 in a pretty small package that is still highly portable? If that's the case, then anyone with an android phone can have a 100% neutral set up on the go
> 
> So it's: Android phone --> USB out --> (ODAC + C5) --> earphones
> 
> Someone correct me if i'm wrong, I'm very new to using an android phone with an external DAC and not exactly sure of the pathways and how it works.


 
   
  I could be wrong, but I think their hands are tied using the odac/o2 designs being open source without nwavguys permissions, and i think he fell of the planet...


----------



## Dojomoto

It's 2/15 and they can't put the preorder up fast enough for me! I'm excited for this amp as it will probably be my first portable amp. I just got a 5.5 gen 80 GB iPod video to go with an amp, and I'm heavily leaning towards the C5 now. Don't make us suffer too much longer, please !


----------



## adamlr

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> I could be wrong, but I think their hands are tied using the odac/o2 designs being open source without nwavguys permissions, and i think he fell of the planet...


 
  doesnt "open source" mean that the design is available to everyone, to do with as they please?
   
  and as for "falling of the plant" - hopefully working on the ODA


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





adamlr said:


> doesnt "open source" mean that the design is available to everyone, to do with as they please?
> 
> and as for "falling of the plant" - hopefully working on the ODA


 
   
  No, open source means anyone can do anything they want with it if that's what the author permits:
   
  http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/
   
  "*No Derivative Works* — You may not alter, transform, or build upon this work."
   
  Making design alterations for a smaller odac would be altering or transforming the work.  If they had permission that wouldn't matter, but I was talking to john at jds, and he hasn't heard anything lately from nwavguy... :-/


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





adamlr said:


> doesnt "open source" mean that the design is available to everyone, to do with as they please?
> 
> and as for "falling of the plant" - hopefully working on the ODA


 
   
  No, open source doesn't always mean anyone can do anything they want with it.  It has stipulations based on what the author permits:
   
  http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/
   
  "*No Derivative Works* — You may not alter, transform, or build upon this work."
   
  Making design alterations for a smaller odac would be altering or transforming the work.  If they had permission that wouldn't matter, but I was talking to john at jds, and he hasn't heard anything lately from nwavguy... :-/


----------



## xuan87

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> No, open source doesn't always mean anyone can do anything they want with it.  It has stipulations based on what the author permits:
> 
> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/
> 
> ...


 
   
  What I had in mind wasn't making a smaller odac. The original size of the odac board is already very small. what is i'm thinking is that john could probably place both the odac board and the C5 board side and side/ on top of each other, join them together with the right connections, and design a whole new case that can fit both boards inside. the final size won't be too big either, and it should still be portable.
   
  Oh I just had a thought: The S3/android phone's usb port might not have enough power to power the odac. It will have to be designed to somehow run off the amp section's battery, which will violate the open source t&c


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





xuan87 said:


> What I had in mind wasn't making a smaller odac. The original size of the odac board is already very small. what is i'm thinking is that john could probably place both the odac board and the C5 board side and side/ on top of each other, join them together with the right connections, and design a whole new case that can fit both boards inside. the final size won't be too big either, and it should still be portable.
> 
> Oh I just had a thought: The S3/android phone's usb port might not have enough power to power the odac. It will have to be designed to somehow run off the amp section's battery, which will violate the open source t&c


 
   
  Ah... I see.  Yeah, I was thinking about that the other day too.  I thought you meant revamp the board to shrink it...


----------



## luisdent

It's on their blog now!!!


----------



## miceblue

Pre-ordering for the JDS Labs C5 is up!
http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=464
   
http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=70

   
  I must say. That is one really nice-looking red colour.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Pre-ordering for the JDS Labs C5 is up!
> http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=464
> 
> http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=70
> ...


 
  They're all super sexy...


----------



## xuan87

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Pre-ordering for the JDS Labs C5 is up!
> http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=464
> 
> http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=70
> ...


 
   
  I'm surprised, I thought there will be a all-black version, since John once mentioned that it's cheaper and the quality is better for black than for silver.


----------



## ostewart

Red looks amazing!


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> Red looks amazing!


 
  I concur. It'll be a late Valentine's gift after all! <3


----------



## Greed

Just going off specs, is the general consensus that this amp will out preform the new FiiO E12? I like the digital stepped attenuation, and the stronger bass boost for when I really want that extra kick. I also like the output impedance, should play nice with most of my stable, does anyone know the output impedance on the E12?


----------



## xuan87

Check out the comment on the JDS blog; Yes! 100% neutral!


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

Quote: 





greed said:


> Just going off specs, is the general consensus that this amp will out preform the new FiiO E12? I like the digital stepped attenuation, and the stronger bass boost for when I really want that extra kick. I also like the output impedance, should play nice with most of my stable*, does anyone know the output impedance on the E12?*


 
  less that .5 ohms
   
  I shall wait for reviews myself, no disrespect to this product but the FiiO is $60 less than this, so if there is some consensus that the differences is slightly in favor to the C5 then I will go for the cheaper amp


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





kamijoismyhero said:


> less that .5 ohms
> 
> I shall wait for reviews myself, no disrespect to this product but the FiiO is $60 less than this, so if there is some consensus that the differences is slightly in favor to the C5 then I will go for the cheaper amp


 
   
  Understandable, but so far things seem to indicate the C5 is better audio quality while the e12 is more powerful.  A review over at headphonia says this:
   
  "Perhaps a good base of a comparison is with the popular JDSLabs C241 amp where the C421 outclasses the E12 in overall refinement and soundstage image, but the E12 definitely has the upper hand in power output. I’m still waiting for JDSLabs’ C5 to arrive and compare it to the E12."
   
  And on the jds blog he says in a comment on the c5 page that it should sound as transparent as the o2! :-o


----------



## xuan87

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Understandable, but so far things seem to indicate the C5 is better audio quality while the e12 is more powerful.  A review over at headphonia says this:
> 
> "Perhaps a good base of a comparison is with the popular JDSLabs C241 amp where the C421 outclasses the E12 in overall refinement and soundstage image, but the E12 definitely has the upper hand in power output. I’m still waiting for JDSLabs’ C5 to arrive and compare it to the E12."
> 
> And on the jds blog he says in a comment on the c5 page that it should sound as transparent as the o2! :-o


 
  Dont really see the point of reviewing a transparent amp lol. It's like reviewing how transparent a window is. People are more interested in reviewing stained glass windows.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





kamijoismyhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  This may not be the appropriate thread to discuss this, but is there any advantage to having a less than 1 Ω output impedance? Usually the "magic number" for the damping ratio is 8, and with an output impedance of 2 Ω, like the C5 has, the "magic number" 8 damping ratio is met for 16 Ω earphones. I am quite certain JDS Labs purposely designed the C5 to have a 2 Ω output impedance for 16 Ω earphones since the C5's digital volume control was specifically addressed for earphone users.


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Understandable, but so far things seem to indicate the C5 is better audio quality while the e12 is more powerful.  A review over at headphonia says this:
> 
> "Perhaps a good base of a comparison is with the popular JDSLabs C241 amp where the C421 outclasses the E12 in overall refinement and soundstage image, but the E12 definitely has the upper hand in power output. I’m still waiting for JDSLabs’ C5 to arrive and compare it to the E12."
> 
> And on the jds blog he says in a comment on the c5 page that it should sound as transparent as the o2! :-o


 
  yea, I follow headfonia too and will wait for reviews
   
  the last statement is intriguing but even the 02 is $45 less, I don't want to start a ruckus but at that point, if it is indeed comparable to an 02, then I am paying for the portability, a bass boost and a better volume control for low volume use, 2 of which I don't really care much for, logically the only thing I can base my purchase with is the value of the sound quality


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> This may not be the appropriate thread to discuss this, but is there any advantage to having a less than 1 Ω output impedance? Usually the "magic number" for the damping ratio is 8, and with an output impedance of 2 Ω, like the C5 has, the "magic number" 8 damping ratio is met for 16 Ω earphones. I am quite certain JDS Labs purposely designed the C5 to have a 2 Ω output impedance for 16 Ω earphones since the C5's digital volume control was specifically addressed for earphone users.


 
  nah just less is better(aren't you in engineering btw?)
   
  side note:maybe something for the technical guys can cross off their list to whine about


----------



## putente

Is the current pre-order price it's final price?


----------



## xuan87

kamijoismyhero said:


> yea, I follow headfonia too and will wait for reviews
> 
> the last statement is intriguing but even the 02 is $45 less, I don't want to start a ruckus but at that point, if it is indeed comparable to an 02, then I am paying for the portability, a bass boost and a better volume control for low volume use, 2 of which I don't really care much for, logically the only thing I can base my purchase with is the value of the sound quality




Well you need to understand that the O2 and the C5 are designed with different goals in mind. 

The O2 amp is designed to be audibly transparent, cheap, can be diy by anyone, and can power all headphones with the exception of certain types like the akg k1000. Because of that, the parts are cheap and of lower quality, uses an analog volume pot, 2 9V batteries and is more transportable than portable.

The C5 is designed to be highly portable, to have little channel imbalance (the channel imbalance in the O2 is quite bad), and to be totally transparent. So because of the higher quality parts used, and the digital volume pot, it is more expensive.

Sound quality wise, both are 100% neutral, with O2 having more power to power the demanding headphones, and with the C5 having less channel imbalance. So depending on your needs, one may be better for you than the other. Personally, i have a O2 and ODAC on my desktop, and will be using the C5 as my portable amp. I dont have any pockets that can carry the O2.


----------



## adamlr

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> No, open source means anyone can do anything they want with it if that's what the author permits:
> 
> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/
> 
> ...


 
  thank you for clearing that up =]
  Quote: 





xuan87 said:


> Dont really see the point of reviewing a transparent amp lol. It's like reviewing how transparent a window is. People are more interested in reviewing stained glass windows.


 
  well all transparent amps inherently sound the same - they dont sound like anything, supposedly disappearing from your rig audibly. i think the differences are mainly in features (and the c5 has many) and power/voltage/current abilities. this looks to be a pretty impressive little amp!
  Quote: 





xuan87 said:


> I dont have any pockets that can carry the O2.


 

 i actually tried putting it in my pocket while i did the dishes... doesnt work...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
   
  the c5 looks amazing! i have absolutely no use for it but i still want one! i think jds forgot to write its size on the site, anyone know the numbers?
  "Dimensions (excluding switches): 99.5 x 49.0 mm"


----------



## RoMee

Yay, I can finally sell my no bass E12. 
   
  The red looks great but it doesn't match any of my stuff.


----------



## BB 808

From the JDS Labs website:
  Dimensions (excluding switches): 99.5 x 49.0 mm


----------



## juntom10

Ahhhh red looks so nice..... hmmmmm!!!!!


----------



## jseaber

Really pleased to see the initial feedback, thanks guys!
   
  Quote: 





putente said:


> Is the current pre-order price it's final price?


 
  Yes.
   
   


xuan87 said:


> I'm surprised, I thought there will be a all-black version, since John once mentioned that it's cheaper and the quality is better for black than for silver.


 

   
  We did black samples, and the appearance just didn't "pop" like these three (more of a matte black). Our anodizer says that's the nature of black anodizing on this type of finish. Black can still be done if you insist.


----------



## putente

John, are the silver faceplates anodized too or just raw metal? I quite like their color and can't stop to wonder how good a C5 in that case finish would look like!


----------



## Gorillaz

sorry if this has been answered, I am working and I really can't go through the whole thread now, is this going to be a neutral amp? as neutral as the O2 but pocketable if this word exist, please let me know before i spend my money in something else but tell me the TRUE, is this a neutral amp, I need it to be NEUTRAL.


----------



## burrrcub

Preordered to replace my C421.  I'm sure I won't be able to tell the difference but new toy nonetheless


----------



## Greed

So is JDS's approach to make this sound more like the O2, or rather a re-vamp'd more detailed C421? After reading more into the C421, when I was looking for my first portable amp, many people said that the amp had a touch of warmth to it. Also, is this amp going to able to roll op-amps for added customization? If it is, I'm sold.. they look beautiful by the way, great job on the design JDS Labs!


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





gorillaz said:


> sorry if this has been answered, I am working and I really can't go through the whole thread now, is this going to be a neutral amp? as neutral as the O2 but pocketable if this word exist, please let me know before i spend my money in something else but tell me the TRUE, is this a neutral amp, I need it to be NEUTRAL.


 
  Straight from the comments section of the C5 blog post:
  Quote: 





> Yes, C5 should be audibly indistinguishable from other neutral amplifiers such as O2.


 
   
   
   
  Quote: 





greed said:


> So is JDS's approach to make this sound more like the O2, or rather a re-vamp'd more detailed C421? After reading more into the C421, when I was looking for my first portable amp, many people said that the amp had a touch of warmth to it. Also, is this amp going to able to roll op-amps for added customization? If it is, I'm sold.. they look beautiful by the way, great job on the design JDS Labs!


 
  I think the goal was to improve upon the C421. Again, straight from their C5 blog post:
  Quote: 





> C5 is not a response to the Objective2, nor to competitors’ products. C5 began as a fun project in 2012 to build a smarter headphone amplifier to solve the single greatest hindrance we see in DIY audio: the analog volume potentiometer.
> ...
> C5 began as an experiment, and even I was skeptical that we could outmatch c421′s THD+N with a digital potentiometer. Thus, we bought a dScope III and set no project deadline and no budget. We’d either continue shipping c421′s, or continue experimenting.
> By January 2013, it was clear that C5 was electrically complete. We quietly put C5 PCB’s into production instead of another batch of c421′s. C5 had not only hit our THD+N goal, it had matched the O2!
> ...


----------



## Gorillaz

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Straight from the comments section of the C5 blog post:


 
  Thanks for answering, well I think I am going to pull the trigger in this one!


----------



## FatmanSize48

Preorder pending parental approval


----------



## juntom10

Woot Woot!
   
  Pre Ordered Red COLOUR !!!


----------



## drachen

I should know better than to buy things at 2 in the morning, but the red was just so pretty.  Though, my plan to try out a cyanogen9'd epic4g for my player (glossy black) should work with the red quite nicely!  I'm excited to see how my SE425's will do with this amp!
   
  I can't wait to get my grubby little paws on one!
   
  (Pre-ordered Red!)


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





xuan87 said:


> Dont really see the point of reviewing a transparent amp lol. It's like reviewing how transparent a window is. People are more interested in reviewing stained glass windows.


 
   
  I have to disagree.  I look at the review as letting me know that someone tested it to be pure.  Would you want a cloudy diamond in your ring?  Wouldn't you want a reviewer to let you know he found the diamond to be perfect?  Or any review showing that something is high quality and works well.  In regards to an amp, being high quality means being 100% transparent with no flaws.  If you want a colored sound there is nothing wrong with that, and you would look for reviews showing that.  I don't want colored sound any more than I want colored headphones.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Really pleased to see the initial feedback, thanks guys!
> 
> Yes.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Is it possible to get a photo of the black?   Can I get mine in a hazy salmon with a hue of magenta and just a haze of peppermint azul tinged with grey? lmao  Your anodizer can do that right?  And you know exactly what color i'm talking about don't you?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Really pleased to see the initial feedback, thanks guys!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I think people would appreciate an all-black version, like the C421. I've seen a few people disappointed by the lack of an all-black option, for the time being, and given the current choices of colours they would pick the silver one. Black offers a sleeker, more low-profile/conservative kind of look in my honest opinion, as black coloured electronics are quite commonly found.
   
  I wonder how popular the slate option will be. It certainly looks nice, don't get me wrong, but it's not a typical colour offered in electronics.


----------



## drachen

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Is it possible to get a photo of the black?   Can I get mine in a hazy salmon with a hue of magenta and just a haze of peppermint azul tinged with grey? lmao  Your anodizer can do that right?  And you know exactly what color i'm talking about don't you?


 

 You wanted that a no-room soy almond salmon Acai neat with a camo muave twist and sandstone blueberry boost on the rocks, peppermint azul right?  Bead blasted of course with the triple three phase 8 liter super-charged cherry bombs.  I assume you are running all that on Royal purple Redline biodiesel!
   
  (Sorry, couldn't resist, I love it!)


----------



## Craigster75

Quote: 





drachen said:


> You wanted that a no-room soy almond salmon Acai neat with a camo muave twist and sandstone blueberry boost on the rocks, peppermint azul right?  Bead blasted of course with the triple three phase 8 liter super-charged cherry bombs.  I assume you are running all that on Royal purple Redline biodiesel!
> 
> (Sorry, couldn't resist, I love it!)


 

 Maybe a tie-in with V-Moda to match all their shield colors


----------



## illusioned

ordered a red one with 8620. cant wait for it to arrive!


----------



## Greed

Quote: 





illusioned said:


> ordered a red one with 8620. cant wait for it to arrive!


 
  Does it come stock with the 8620? Or do you have to specify?


----------



## FatmanSize48

miceblue said:


> I think people would appreciate an all-black version, like the C421. I've seen a few people disappointed by the lack of an all-black option, for the time being, and given the current choices of colours they would pick the silver one. Black offers a sleeker, more low-profile/conservative kind of look in my honest opinion, as black coloured electronics are quite commonly found.
> 
> I wonder how popular the slate option will be. It certainly looks nice, don't get me wrong, but it's not a typical colour offered in electronics.




Most portable amps on the market these days are either silver or black. What's wrong with a little variety 

As someone looking for a subtle amp to pair with iDevices (and hopefully the new Fiio X3), the slate seems perfect.


----------



## Dojomoto

Quote: 





greed said:


> Does it come stock with the 8620? Or do you have to specify?


 
    The C5 uses an OPA2227 stock. It was mentioned either in this thread or on their Facebook page that you could request the 8620 if you desired it instead.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Oh nothing is wrong with variety, it's just odd to some people that the "industry standard" black colour isn't offered, yet.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Pre-ordering for the JDS Labs C5 is up!
> http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=464
> 
> http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=70
> ...


 

 The Power LED is finally placed in front. The output impedance is lowered (2ohm should be good enough for most IEM except maybe a few IEM that is under 10ohm). The power line has been improved (though the C421 power line is already really good). The new digital volume control looks very impressive. OPA2227 is never the top of my favorite list of opamp, but given C5 is designed around it, hopefully it will be the best OPA2227 featured portable amp around (shouldn't be too difficult since it can match O2)
   
  Overall, it looks like a worthy replacement for C421.


----------



## xuan87

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> I have to disagree.  I look at the review as letting me know that someone tested it to be pure.  Would you want a cloudy diamond in your ring?  Wouldn't you want a reviewer to let you know he found the diamond to be perfect?  Or any review showing that something is high quality and works well.  In regards to an amp, being high quality means being 100% transparent with no flaws.  If you want a colored sound there is nothing wrong with that, and you would look for reviews showing that.  I don't want colored sound any more than I want colored headphones.


 
   
  You're 100% right. Especially for amps that claim to be 100% neutral, there need to be objective reviews covering all aspects of the amp with measurements to verify the maker's claims that the amp is indeed, 100% neutral. What I meant in my statement refer only to subjective reviews, which is the huge majority of the reviews out on the internet. It'll be great if NwAvGuy can review the C5 but unfortunately, he disappeared off the grid since late last year.....
  Quote: 





miceblue said:


> I think people would appreciate an all-black version, like the C421. I've seen a few people disappointed by the lack of an all-black option, for the time being, and given the current choices of colours they would pick the silver one. Black offers a sleeker, more low-profile/conservative kind of look in my honest opinion, as black coloured electronics are quite commonly found.
> 
> I wonder how popular the slate option will be. It certainly looks nice, don't get me wrong, but it's not a typical colour offered in electronics.


 
   
  Maybe John can offer it as a limited run. Personally I prefer the slate to the silver, but the red is just too tempting! I love the red and silver combination.
  Quote: 





dojomoto said:


> The C5 uses an OPA2227 stock. It was mentioned either in this thread or on their Facebook page that you could request the 8620 if you desired it instead.


 
   
  Hmm, on the C421, the OPA2227 version was slightly warm, while the 8620 version was more neutral. In this case, the C5 was designed around the OPA2227 to be 100% neutral, so I'm not sure what changing to the 8620 will do to the sound since it can't be anymore neutral (i mean, you can but you won't be able to hear it). Maybe John will see my post and is able to comment on what the 8620 will do.


----------



## illusioned

xuan87 said:


> You're 100% right. Especially for amps that claim to be 100% neutral, there need to be objective reviews covering all aspects of the amp with measurements to verify the maker's claims that the amp is indeed, 100% neutral. What I meant in my statement refer only to subjective reviews, which is the huge majority of the reviews out on the internet. It'll be great if NwAvGuy can review the C5 but unfortunately, he disappeared off the grid since late last year.....
> 
> Maybe John can offer it as a limited run. Personally I prefer the slate to the silver, but the red is just too tempting! I love the red and silver combination.
> 
> Hmm, on the C421, the OPA2227 version was slightly warm, while the 8620 version was more neutral. In this case, the C5 was designed around the OPA2227 to be 100% neutral, so I'm not sure what changing to the 8620 will do to the sound since it can't be anymore neutral (i mean, you can but you won't be able to hear it). Maybe John will see my post and is able to comment on what the 8620 will do.




(trying to stay hopeful given that i ordered 8620 one)


----------



## grandmike

Thank you miceblue for introducing this amp from the M100 Thread. 
   
  Just wondering if the C5 would come with a black front and back plate like the c421 used to have ? If not can it be custom made ? I would think it would be nice to have it with a red body . Good Job JDS for introducing the RED Colour. Also , would like to know if it is possible to have custom engravement  ? 
   
  Cheers.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





grandmike said:


> Thank you miceblue for introducing this amp from the M100 Thread.
> 
> Just wondering if the C5 would come with a black front and back plate like the c421 used to have ? If not can it be custom made ? I would think it would be nice to have it with a red body . Good Job JDS for introducing the RED Colour. Also , would like to know if it is possible to have custom engravement  ?
> 
> Cheers.


 
  I made an inquiry in my order about having my name/Head-Fi username engraved on the C5 and John graciously replied:
  Quote: 





> There's no charge for custom engraving. How would you like your engraving to appear?


 
   
  I'm not sure if there will a fee for larger logos and whatnot though.
   
  I've got to hand it to John and JDS Labs for having some of the best customer service I have ever experienced.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

I wonder if you could save some moniey if you wanted to get it i raw aluminum rather than anodized. Cause i think that would look rather cool as well.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





greed said:


> Does it come stock with the 8620? Or do you have to specify?


 
   
  C5 is built for best performance as it's designed. Effective now, no more custom opamps will be offered. C5 sounds great as is, and this will keep reviews consistent. Way too much confusion arose from c421's opamp choices!
   


grandmike said:


> Thank you miceblue for introducing this amp from the M100 Thread.
> 
> Just wondering if the C5 would come with a black front and back plate like the c421 used to have ? If not can it be custom made ? I would think it would be nice to have it with a red body . Good Job JDS for introducing the RED Colour. Also , would like to know if it is possible to have custom engravement  ?
> 
> Cheers.


 



     


  We can do all-black cases upon special request (4-8 day lead time). Distributors will shoot me if we make this product any more complicated.
   
  Custom text engraving is free; please enter special requests in the Order Notes field upon checkout.
   


souprknowva said:


> I wonder if you could save some moniey if you wanted to get it i raw aluminum rather than anodized. Cause i think that would look rather cool as well.


 


   
  Anodizing costs $2 per case, and raw aluminum scratches very easily. The original picture in this thread was taken after bead blasting, prior to anodizing. You don't want to see a raw extrusion...


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Anodizing costs $2 per case, and raw aluminum scratches very easily. The original picture in this thread was taken after bead blasting, prior to anodizing. You don't want to see a raw extrusion...


 
  haha got it, thanks for the reply though


----------



## luisdent

John, does the black look similar to the c421 but just not as dark?


----------



## luisdent

drachen said:


> You wanted that a no-room soy almond salmon Acai neat with a camo muave twist and sandstone blueberry boost on the rocks, peppermint azul right?  Bead blasted of course with the triple three phase 8 liter super-charged cherry bombs.  I assume you are running all that on Royal purple Redline biodiesel!
> 
> (Sorry, couldn't resist, I love it!)




Yes! Exactly! So, you know exactly what I meant!


----------



## willmax

John, any chance we could get a picture showing the black C5 please?
  Congratulations on the great product so far, you guys never fail to impress with your creations.


----------



## Magicman74

Can't wait for a head to head!!


----------



## LoveKnight

Did I just see "Made in China" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




? You should have used "Assembled In China" words. Sorry, just kidding.


----------



## Craigster75

IMO, black looks fantastic and should be offered as an option.  It would be my first choice.


----------



## FatmanSize48

loveknight said:


> Did I just see "Made in China"  ? You should have used "Assembled In China" words. Sorry, just kidding.




That amp is from another company


----------



## Craigster75

Quote: 





loveknight said:


> Did I just see "Made in China"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





craigster75 said:


> IMO, black looks fantastic and should be offered as an option.  It would be my first choice.


 
   
  Quote: 





fatmansize48 said:


> That amp is from another company


 
  Thanks for pointing that out- pics were misleading.  I was wondering where the bass boost was.


----------



## Greed

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Anodizing costs $2 per case, and raw aluminum scratches very easily. The original picture in this thread was taken after bead blasting, prior to anodizing. You don't want to see a raw extrusion...


 

 Thanks for the answer, seems like you have done it again!


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





craigster75 said:


> IMO, black looks fantastic and should be offered as an option.  It would be my first choice.


 
   
  Quote: 





jseaber said:


> We can do all-black cases upon special request (4-8 day lead time). Distributors will shoot me if we make this product any more complicated.
> 
> Custom text engraving is free; please enter special requests in the Order Notes field upon checkout.


----------



## Craigster75

Quote: 





miceblue said:


>


 

 Thanks, now I just have to balance out price, features and SQ between C5, Headstage Arrow 12HE, FiiO E12 (next shipment with enhanced bass boost) and V-Moda Verza (out by mid-March), but at least, in my mind, I have narrowed my portable amp choice to these four.


----------



## juntom10

Now I am just curious why they named it "C5"? not C4? haha


----------



## jseaber

luisdent said:


> John, does the black look similar to the c421 but just not as dark?


 
   
  C5 endplates look the same in black as c421. The new body looks dull in black, much unlike the colors we chose. Light reflects (refracts?) nicely on brushed aluminum. But it appears to absorb into the bead blasted texture, creating a matte appearance, which stands out from all the other colors. In other words, the texture appears to change, even though it hasn't. Take a look at the colors Apple offers for iPod Nanos. They don't offer a black, and our anodizer suggests we're observing first-hand why that may be. I suspect Apple has something against black--surely it can be done when you have billions in $.
   
  We may use black C5 cases for our ODACs soon (will post pics then). They by no means look bad. They're simply different, and less appealing than the colors we chose. Nick spent months in pursuit of this appearance. He's done a fantastic job.
   
  Ten years from now black will be out, and everyone will be after some other new style


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > John, does the black look similar to the c421 but just not as dark?
> ...


 
Interesting to hear, and you make a very good case (pun intended) for the iPod line...I actually never even noticed that until you pointed it out.
  Upon looking at their website, it appears they do offer a black iPod/iTouch, not to mention the iPhone 5:


   
   
   
  I think a black matte-textured enclosure would be something people can appreciate; didn't the C421 have a similar finish though?
  The current coarse-brush finish on the ODAC is not my top pick for an enclosure texture and would prefer a matte-finish one any day over it, to be honest.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Interesting to hear, and you make a very good case (pun intended) for the iPod line...I actually never even noticed that until you pointed it out.
> Upon looking at their website, it appears they do offer a black iPod/iTouch, not to mention the iPhone 5:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I have the 7G iPod Nano on my office desk. It's actually a deep "slate" anodizing and not black. If that's what you guys want, we can try it.
   
  The Slate C5 we photographed was 50% intensity, according to our anodizer.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Ah, you beat me to the photo. I was just going to post: iPod touch 32GB Black & Slate
   
  Personally I think a darker slate would be more popular since it matches other electronic equipment better than the current slate colour. I don't know what other people think of it though. As you mentioned in your blog comments, seeing how the pre-order sales go will give a rough estimate of the popularity of the different colour options offered right now. From the looks of it, the red seems to be a popular "loud" colour option for users.


----------



## bwaterme

I love the look of the slate. I go for black components almost 100% of the time. Black iPod Classic 5thG. Black iPad Mini. Always get cables in black when possible. But when I saw this slate I made my pre-order in it. I think I would have gotten it even if it had been offered in black. Great looking product, John!


----------



## xuan87

I think it's a testament to JDS Lab's reputation that most of the debate going on here is on the color options of the C5, it's like to them, it's a foregone conclusion that the amp WILL sound as good as what John promises.


----------



## illusioned

xuan87 said:


> I think it's a testament to JDS Lab's reputation that most of the debate going on here is on the color options of the C5, it's like to them, it's a foregone conclusion that the amp WILL sound as good as what John promises.




haha yup. its *expected* to sound good, but lets wait till the reviewers give their comments 

(dont get me wrong, i ordered one too )


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





xuan87 said:


> I think it's a testament to JDS Lab's reputation that most of the debate going on here is on the color options of the C5, it's like to them, it's a foregone conclusion that the amp WILL sound as good as what John promises.


 
  They do have most of the objective measurements posted on their blog, and the electronics/sound are pretty much "locked-in", so the only feedback we can really give at this point is colour options, and it seems feasible for JDS Labs to change the colours.


----------



## max111

leckerton uha-4 (when stocks are available) or c5??? decision, decisiosn, decision......


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





xuan87 said:


> I think it's a testament to JDS Lab's reputation that most of the debate going on here is on the color options of the C5, it's like to them, it's a foregone conclusion that the amp WILL sound as good as what John promises.


 
   
  Haha.  That's what I've been thinking this whole time.  It's like everything is so good we're nitpicking over the small stuff.... "will it look good with my other gear?" lol  Not that it isn't important...  
   
  I can't wait to see my custom anodized album art on the amp!!!!   Barring any unforeseen reasons it's can't be done (john thinks it can) this will be so awesome.  let me know what you guys think. It's the album art to my first album...  I made a quick mockup...


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Looks pretty clean.
   
   
  I'm looking forward to seeing how the digital potentiometer turns out. Usually I don't like digital volume control because of the discrete "steps" in sound it has, as opposed to a continuous analog control. The 1-finger operation of the smooth lever should be a welcome change though (as opposed to a 1-finger operation of a digital button for some amps).


----------



## gkanai

Pre-ordered. Red


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Looks pretty clean.
> 
> 
> I'm looking forward to seeing how the digital potentiometer turns out. Usually I don't like digital volume control because of the discrete "steps" in sound it has, as opposed to a continuous analog control. The 1-finger operation of the smooth lever should be a welcome change though (as opposed to a 1-finger operation of a digital button for some amps).


 
   
  I agree.  Although, it sounds like they made it very precise for sensitive IEMs, so maybe that will mean it is slight changes with each step. I can't STAND the ipod touch's external volume buttons with ANY headphone.  I always want something in between.  I exclusively use the on screen lock menu volume control, and even that can be a pain.  Bah.  Maybe this will make things better for me.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That or the steps of the digital button are small and it takes a while/many button presses to reach the desired volume level (thinking about the FiiO E7 right now).


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> That or the steps of the digital button are small and it takes a while/many button presses to reach the desired volume level (thinking about the FiiO E7 right now).


 
   
  That is something I was wondering too.  It would be nice if holding the button down ramps up the speed...  And not to start any worries, but the one thing that actually has me sort of worried is the gain button.  It is the volume button if I'm not mistaken.  You push it in to switch gain mode.  I just hope you never accidentally press it when adjusting the volume and all the sudden get a big boost in gain... :-o  But I'm sure they tested that a lot to make sure it didn't happen...  Anyhow, I can't wait for mine!


----------



## drachen

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> That is something I was wondering too.  It would be nice if holding the button down ramps up the speed...  And not to start any worries, but the one thing that actually has me sort of worried is the gain button.  It is the volume button if I'm not mistaken.  You push it in to switch gain mode.  I just hope you never accidentally press it when adjusting the volume and all the sudden get a big boost in gain... :-o  But I'm sure they tested that a lot to make sure it didn't happen...  Anyhow, I can't wait for mine!


 

 I believe that you can change any of that later on with the arduino programmable interface.  So if you want the controls to be linear, log, or morse code it should work.  I am still trying to work out how to input the Konami code


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





drachen said:


> I believe that you can change any of that later on with the arduino programmable interface.  So if you want the controls to be linear, log, or morse code it should work.  I am still trying to work out how to input the Konami code


 
   
  I saw that.  That's pretty sweet.  Although, I'm sure I'd have to invest in arduino equipment to do such a thing?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





drachen said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The Arduino code doesn't look terribly complex, but it will be interesting to see to see what people do with it.
   
  There looks to be some code to prevent accidental gain pressing, setting a delay for the push (push volume lever, code detects if it's pressed, pauses code for a brief fraction of a second [can be adjusted], code detects if it's still pressed, runs the code to change the gain state). If the volume lever is constantly jostled or accidentally pressed, changing the delay to a higher value might be useful in that case (forcing the user to hold-down the volume lever for a longer period of time before the gain toggle code activates).


----------



## drachen

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> The Arduino code doesn't look terribly complex, but it will be interesting to see to see what people do with it.
> 
> There looks to be some code to prevent accidental gain pressing, setting a delay for the push (push volume lever, code detects if it's pressed, pauses code for a brief fraction of a second [can be adjusted], code detects if it's still pressed, runs the code to change the gain state). If the volume lever is constantly jostled or accidentally pressed, changing the delay to a higher value might be useful in that case (forcing the user to hold-down the volume lever for a longer period of time before the gain toggle code activates).


 

 I like the idea of running the amp in a dark mode.  You could leave the blinking led for low battery, and have the led flash when changing volume, or flash a message in morse code when it starts up.
  You could make things more complex by adding logic for different modes of operation.  I could see this as useful for an IEM mode and "can" mode. (its a joke, i2c vs. can bus...  )
  possibly double clicking the "gain" button (press in on the volume control) you could change modes, then the volume increase would be more sensitive in the low volume range vs faster stepping for the larger headphones.  You could also change the max volume say in the IEM mode, should you hit volume up in your pocket, it wont make your ears bleed.  Safety first. 
   
  Alternatively, you can add a watch timer, so say, if the downtemp is held down for more than 1 second, the amount the volume is stepped is doubled.  You could even change it more after two seconds, etc.
   
  perhaps rather than a mode change, you could incorporate a mute functionality depending on your needs.
   
  Lots of options here, its awesome John has given us so many options!


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





drachen said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That actually sounds like a really neat idea. Gah, now I'm really interested in seeing what kinds of cool things can get coded for the C5. 
   
  Regarding the default volume settings, John said on the Facebook page:
  Quote: 





> Volume advances 1dB every 55ms. Those numbers are meaningless until you try it. I spent days tinkering with the firmware to get an optimal speed. It takes about 3.5 seconds to transition from mute to max, and single "steps" are still possible (and subtle). Excellent volume control was the highest focus in C5.


 
  ^ and yup, there it is in the code using the same logic as the gain toggle (turn volume lever, code detects it and delays the code for 55ms, if code detects it's still turned, starts the volume control code).


----------



## drachen

miceblue said:


> That actually sounds like a really neat idea. Gah, now I'm really interested in seeing what kinds of cool things can get coded for the C5.
> 
> Regarding the default volume settings, John said on the Facebook page:
> ^ and yup, there it is in the code using the same logic as the gain toggle (turn volume lever, code detects it and delays the code for 55ms, if code detects it's still turned, starts the volume control code).



I'm still in the stone age with no facebook. I wonder how many times he has worked the full gamut of volume of the C5. Also testing the wear-life of the toggle 
I am too, not to break things before my unit even ships, but I wonder if there are any exposed pins left to case-mod another button on. Though, it would be easy to use a press in, toggle up or press in toggle down. And just use delays for a few more "buttons."

This is way too much fun, I really should be sleeping, but this is way too much fun! Thanks for the info, i'll keep posting ideas and I hope you'll do the same!


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





drachen said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Lucky for you the comments of JDS Labs' recent Facebook photos are public, so you have full access to them without having to make a Facebook account.
   
  Also lucky for you, I already asked John about the lever's life cycle:
  Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Though from what we can learn from the creator of the O2, spec'ed things aren't always what one gets under ideal conditions.
   
   
  Yup I should sleep too.


----------



## DMinor

The volume adjustment lever looks like the same as Alo Rx MKII's.


----------



## ostewart

updated first post with specs and details.
   
  also im probs getting it in red 
   
  will do a comparison against C421 AD8620


----------



## HeadFiend

The red one is sooo sexyyy :tongue_smile:

http://www.jdslabs.com/images/70/Red/1600/Red-Iso.png


----------



## illusioned

ostewart said:


> updated first post with specs and details.
> 
> also im probs getting it in red
> 
> will do a comparison against C421 AD8620





cant wait for that too


----------



## grandmike

Hopefully this is a valid question here , in comparison between the C5 and the Objective 2 . What would be the difference between sound quality .
   
  P/S I know it is not out yet .


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





grandmike said:


> Hopefully this is a valid question here , in comparison between the C5 and the Objective 2 . What would be the difference between sound quality .
> 
> P/S I know it is not out yet .


 
  In the future, I'm sure there will be a ton of comparisons between the C5 and the O2 as many of the people in this thread have an O2, but John of JDS Labs said in the C5 blog comments:
  Quote: 





> Yes, C5 should be audibly indistinguishable from other neutral amplifiers such as O2.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





grandmike said:


> ...
> P/S I know it is not out yet .


 
   
  So you want someone to guess the answer?


----------



## grandmike

Quote: 





clieos said:


> So you want someone to guess the answer?


 
   
  One of the best option would be looking at the specs .


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





grandmike said:


> One of the best option would be looking at the specs .


 
   
  You can tell SQ of an amp (or an audio gears) by spec only when it really sucks, and that's assume there is a manufacturer willing to post a very bad looking spec. Most of the time spec doesn't tell you much at all, and big number are often threw around just for marketing to those who are less informed. Of course, I don't think John is throwing number here but when you have two amps that is beyond the limitation of most human hearing on spec, you need to actually listen to both to decide when is better to your ears.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I think that's where objectivists get so tied-up with things, and I agree with you on that point. I read through some of your < $200 amp comparisons in your signature and from the looks of it, you could distinguish a difference between the two different version of the C421. Of course I haven't seen any measurements between the two op-amps, but I think they would be pretty similar. Also, some [insert sound science term only] tests would probably have to be done to make sure you could reliably hear a difference between them, if you're going the objectivist path.
   
  Speaking of measurements though, is there any way to extrapolate the Vrms values to a more reasonable 32 Ω value? I know John mentioned in the C5 blog post comments that they're trying to find a solution to this, but for the time being can it be extrapolated from the 150 and 600 Ω values?


Spoiler: Extrapolated%20Values



Assuming linear behavior:


Spoiler: Math



 
  (600 Ω - 150 Ω) / (P_h - P_m) = (150 Ω - 32 Ω) / (P_m - P_s)
   
  where
  P_h = [(Vrms600)^2] / R600 = [(4.146 V)^2] / 600 Ω = 0.02865 W or 28.65 mW
  P_m = [(Vrms150)^2] / R150 = [(3.337 V)^2] / 150 Ω = 0.07424 W or 74.24 mW
   


  Solving for P_s yields: 0.08619 W or *~86 mW @ 32 Ω*
   
  This sounds like a reasonable amount of power for a portable amplifier.
   
  Using a similar extrapolation for 41 Ω yields ~84 mW, which should be all right for an HE-500 assuming the measurements from InnerFidelity are accurate (2.04 mW needed to reach 90 dB SPL).


Spoiler: Math



 
  SPL_max = 10 * log(P_max / P_90SPL) + 90
   
  where
  P_max is the maximum power the amp can provide at a given resistance; in this case 84 mW @ 41Ω
  P_90SPL is the power needed to reach 90 SPL; in this case 2.04 mW according to InnerFidelity
   


  Solving for SPL_max yields: ~106 dB, which is quite loud (for me at least)
  According to Etymotic, ~105 dB is the volume level one would experience in a loud sporting event or a concert band


----------



## ostewart

I will compare it to O2 and C421 for reference purposes, as people seem to be asking for that


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





clieos said:


> but when you have two amps that is beyond the limitation of most human hearing on spec, you need to actually listen to both to decide when is better to your ears.


 
   
  And, similarly, when an amp's noise and distortion specs are beyond the limitation of all human hearing, no listening test is required.


----------



## rckyosho

I think you should add real measured amp's noise and distortion specs instead of claimed specs than a listening test is not required.

Anyway don't forget that humans do not only have hearing alone.We can feel,see,smell,touch, etc.You may not be able to hear a 10hz sound but you can feel it provided the gear you have can reproduce it.And with all the other sensory input the brain does effect your perception and frankly in real life we don't listen blind unless of course you are blind .


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





rckyosho said:


> I think you should add real measured amp's noise and distortion specs instead of claimed specs than a listening test is not required.
> 
> Anyway don't forget that humans do not only have hearing alone.We can feel,see,smell,touch, etc.You may not be able to hear a 10hz sound but you can feel it provided the gear you have can reproduce it.And with all the other sensory input the brain does effect your perception and frankly in real life we don't listen blind unless of course you are blind
> 
> ...


 
  If you were referring to the C5 in your first sentence, John posted the amp's real measurements on the C5 blog entry.
http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=464


----------



## ostewart

I posted all specs on first page, and link to blog


----------



## goodvibes

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> And, similarly, when an amp's noise and distortion specs are beyond the limitation of all human hearing, no listening test is required.


 
  Because you're so absolutely sure that they've measured every type of dynamic distortion that can occur in music and into every load?


----------



## ClieOS

Not all measurement are measured equally, so to speak.


----------



## HeadFiend

I don't think I would like the joystick-like volume control. A rotary wheel would be much more convenient, and reaching an appropriate volume would be much faster.


----------



## ostewart

headfiend said:


> I don't think I would like the joystick-like volume control. A rotary wheel would be much more convenient, and reaching an appropriate volume would be much faster.




But then you get channel imbalance, if you want a rotary wheel buy a second hand C421


----------



## HeadFiend

Is there no such thing as a "digital" rotary wheel, without the channel imbalance issues?


----------



## ostewart

Not that I know of, as digital volume control is always stepped, but if you hold whilst turning volume up it goes faster


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





rckyosho said:


> I think you should add real measured amp's noise and distortion specs instead of claimed specs than a listening test is not required.
> 
> Anyway don't forget that humans do not only have hearing alone.We can feel,see,smell,touch, etc.You may not be able to hear a 10hz sound but you can feel it provided the gear you have can reproduce it.And with all the other sensory input the brain does effect your perception and frankly in real life we don't listen blind unless of course you are blind
> 
> ...


 
   
  Your first point is well-taken. It's actual measurements that count.
   
  Humans don't see, smell, or touch sound. In real life, I might get drunk and listen to music but that has no effect on sound waves.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





goodvibes said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm sure you'll realize, when you read what I wrote (here or anywhere else): I neither said nor implied that.


----------



## goodvibes

It's certainly implied as it rather invalidates your statement if you don't feel that way.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





headfiend said:


> Is there no such thing as a "digital" rotary wheel, without the channel imbalance issues?


 
   
  Yes, there is - Meier Audio Stepdance / Quickdance has a digital volume control set by an analog potentiometer . But It is an unusual implementation that I don't think will fit inside the C5.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

The Pico Slim also used a regular rotary knob that controlled a digital volume control


----------



## HeadFiend

clieos said:


> Yes, there is - Meier Audio Stepdance / Quickdance has a digital volume control set by an analog potentiometer . But It is an unusual implementation that I don't think will fit inside the C5.




That's a shame then. I think the joystick thingie is rather gimmicky and inconvenient. I remember using a similar one on some gear (can't remember what): I had to wait patiently until I reached a proper level, or I would go too far and I'd need to go back, trying not to go too far in the other direction as well. Very cumbersome.


----------



## rckyosho

hamilcarbarca said:


> Your first point is well-taken. It's actual measurements that count.
> 
> Humans don't see, smell, or touch sound. In real life, I might get drunk and listen to music but that has no effect on sound waves.




Ah, that is where you are wrong.Sound is a product of something vibrating and for sound to be reproduce you need some kind of vibration from air,water or other medium. You can for sure feel,smell and touch air or whatever medium sound is coming out from.Unless you live in a vaccum in which there is no sound cause the is nothing there to vibrate thus no sound.

And in real life when you get drunk it'll effect the way your eardrums vibrate thus effecting the sound being reproduce.Still with me on this? :rolleyes:


----------



## luisdent

Why not use a digital jog wheel like those found on most car radio decks.  Just lay it flat on the circuit board with the edge protruding from the case like an analogue wheel?  Maybe there's more too it than that?  I don't know.  I'm not going to judge until I try it though.  I don't mind using the buttons on the outside of my ipod touch, except that they are far too jumpy with the volume.  If this is similar but finer control, I'm a happy man...


----------



## ostewart

Can we please stay on subject, no arguing sound perception or science unless it is fully related


----------



## rckyosho

ostewart said:


> Can we please stay on subject, no arguing sound perception or science unless it is fully related




I apologise for the derailment and will try to avoid posting if its not useful stuff regarding the C5.I usually try to avoid arguements but it was just the spur of the moment I guess.

Actually wanted to say that it would be great if the C5 was design to go together with the Odac or something similar in one box together, Or maybe made as an option.The UD-100 DAC is also another good small size DAC that is small enough to fit inside the C5 case that would make for a good overall option in terms of portability.


----------



## DMinor

The digital volume control with the lever shouldn't be an issue. I have the Rx MK2 with the lever and it works great for volume adjustment. It's non protruding and improves portability.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





headfiend said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I see what you mean. The digital lever takes ~3.5 seconds to go from mute to full volume whereas an analog potentiometer can probably be adjust in a similar way for a fraction of the time.


----------



## rckyosho

miceblue said:


> I see what you mean. The digital lever takes ~3.5 seconds to go from mute to full volume whereas an analog potentiometer can probably be adjust in a similar way for a fraction of the time.




I think 3.5 seconds is a good time overall for volume. Not sure if the volume controller chip can go faster than 3.5 seconds but if it could and since the C5 firmware is under an open license you could change it if you wanted to (bar the hassle and buying the ISP Programmer and reprogramming it), or maybe request JDSlabs to make a faster timing on request before ordering one if its all possible that is(need JDSlabs to chime in here).

Anyway lets just wait for feedback once the preorder ships cause its all just speculation now.It might just turn out to be better.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





rckyosho said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yeah it can be changed in the Arduino code no problem. With the default settings it changes the volume 1 step at a time per 55 ms (there are 63 steps total); one could easily decrease the time delay to 16 ms to go from 0-max volume in ~1 seconds.


----------



## xuan87

Just want to add my 2 cents on the digital vs analog volume pot:
   
  The last time I used a digital volume pot that is similar to the C5 was on an old creative mp3 player about a decade, since then I've either used analog volume pot, or digital wheel.
   
  Right now, I'm using the xduoo xp-1 as my portable amp, together with my S3, and I find myself wishing it has an analog pot, because when i stick them into my jean pockets, 90% of the time, I will accidentally twist the volume knob. Either that or when i'm walking, the cuff of pocket will rub against the volume knob, turning the volume up and down, up and down, as I walk (yes it's as comical as I'm making it sound). So in this instance, the digital volume knob will be better for me, as it has a smaller profile, so there's a smaller chance of me accidentally bumping up or down the volume.
   
  Another reason I MAY (have to actually try it out first) prefer a digital volume pot, especially one with many steps, is that it's easier to adjust the volume for iems that require fine volume tuning (it's hard to finely move the volume pot mm by mm to get your desired volume when you're walking fast. I had this very problem this morning). Adding to the fact that the on-off switch is also the volume pot (turned to the lowest volume to switch off the amp) means I have to finely adjust the volume pot every time i switch on the amp. 
   
  Since the C5 has a separate switch, I hope the amp is able to "remember" the volume setting when it was last switched on. This means that I will not need to fiddle with the volume setting everytime I switch on the amp, and I will not be bothered by the "harder to use" volume pot problem that everyone is so worried about ( I'll just take my own time to adjust the volume, then not bothered with it again). Of course, if you use the C5 with a variety of iems, then this won't really help you. Does anyone know if this is the case with the C5, because I don't remember seeing it when reading the product page, or blog post.
   
  So to me, I see 3 additional advantages with a digital volume "pot" compared to an analog one (besides the channel imbalance issue): Smaller footprint (good for portability), less possible accidental changing of volume, and easier to make fine adjustment in volume. YMMV.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





xuan87 said:


> Just want to add my 2 cents on the digital vs analog volume pot:
> 
> The last time I used a digital volume pot that is similar to the C5 was on an old creative mp3 player about a decade, since then I've either used analog volume pot, or digital wheel.
> 
> ...


 
  From what I can read in the code, the volume is set to the lowest volume when the amp is turned on; as in, when you turn it on, it loads the volume as 0 volume. I'm not sure if it can remember a state once it's turned off.


----------



## xuan87

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> From what I can read in the code, the volume is set to the lowest volume when the amp is turned on; as in, when you turn it on, it loads the volume as 0 volume. I'm not sure if it can remember a state once it's turned off.


 
  D'OH!


----------



## ostewart

Well I thought I saw that it saves your current settings when switched off


----------



## drachen

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> From what I can read in the code, the volume is set to the lowest volume when the amp is turned on; as in, when you turn it on, it loads the volume as 0 volume. I'm not sure if it can remember a state once it's turned off.


 

 The code actually checks to see if the current volume and gain values in memory are the same as the currently in use values (checks every 2 seconds), and if they are not, it stores the current value into memory.  You should have the last used value resume upon powering up the amp next time.  (as long as you have waited 2 seconds since making the change.)
  There is code to read memory, and if the value is greater than the min/mute, it defaults to min (not mute). 
   
  An option could be to set a max volume at boot as well as a min, so you know it will never start beyond that value.  This is somewhat paranoid however, but if you used IEMs a lot, may be worth doing.  Also, if you had your Cans on, and switched to IEMs the next day, it could stop you from blasting yourself. (this is more likely than any corruption, which is also checked for  )
   
  The variables are initialized at first as default values, then the stored values are read from memory, and values are checked for corruption, then they are sent down the wire, and you are restored to last known values and are back in business!


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





drachen said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Oh is that what that section does? I did see checks the volume every 2 seconds, but I didn't know it actually stores the value from a previous session. At the top of the code I thought it initialises everything to 0, basically.


----------



## drachen

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Oh is that what that section does? I did see checks the volume every 2 seconds, but I didn't know it actually stores the value from a previous session. At the top of the code I thought it initialises everything to 0, basically.


 

 Its pretty neat, the:

```
EEPROM.read(0) and EEPROM.write(0, attenuation) (also 1 / gain)
```
  reads and writes from, well, the eeprom.  So far only location 0 and 1 are used, which leaves 510 more bytes for use (thank you John for pointing me at the ATmega168A spec.)
  Yep, you are right, it sets everything to 0-ish, then it writes those values to the wire, then it grabs the previous values from memory and sets the gain and volume again.
  Setting the volume its lowest setting while starting is good, its nice to be quiet while bringing up a system and these changes happen very fast. (NOTE: for people looking to change their firmware, an attenuation value of 0 is MAX volume, where a value of 62 is lowest, and 63 is mute. This is noted in the comments, just be aware so you don't bleed your ears. When miceblue and I are reference initializing values to 0, attenuation for example becomes, attenuation = 32 </end nerd nerd nerd>)
   
  Edit: for grammar.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





drachen said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Right, the volume is set by "attenuation"; so at attenuation = 0, that means the volume isn't attenuated, which means the maximum volume level.
   
  And thank you for clarifying the EEPROM.read part. That was pretty much the only part of the code I didn't completely understand. >.>
  It makes sense now though.
   
  ......right...I didn't see this earlier.
   

```
// Retrieve volume and gain values from EEPROM. [u]Set default values if EEPROM is new[/u] or corrupted.
```
   
   
   
*So in short: YES the volume level is remembered from the previous session*


----------



## willmax

I think this digital volume will be one of those 'love or hate' things. Without trying I imagine that I'd prefer the normal analog pot, but that's just me.


----------



## goodvibes

It won't get noisey over time and it won't damage your ears from just sticking something in your pocket. Even if you stuck the lever over, a couple seconds is long enough to disconnect, pull off your phones or correct the issue. Shorter may not be. Fine tuning V is also easier with a slower scale. We've got over 18 steps per second here. Seems reasonable to me.


----------



## miceblue

Pre-ordered C5's are starting to ship tomorrow. Stay tuned for initial impressions next week.


----------



## Will-8

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Pre-ordered C5's are starting to ship tomorrow. Stay tuned for initial impressions next week.


 
   
  That's about 6 days ahead of schedule. Good!


----------



## juntom10

Cannot wait my RED one!


----------



## JiPod

will-8 said:


> That's about 6 days ahead of schedule. Good!




According to JDS Labs' blog:

Barring unforeseen catastrophic failures, C5 preorders will ship no later than February 28. Review samples and distributor orders will ship on February 22.

miceblue either has insider information or he misinterpreted review samples as preorders.


----------



## JiPod

Please ignore previous post. miceblue is correct. Quote from JDS Labs' blog:

February 22, 2013 at 12:07 am
We shipped 11% of preorders by 7PM this evening, and expect to fill all preorders by February 28th as promised.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





will-8 said:


> That's about 6 days ahead of schedule. Good!


 
   
  Just a few C5's will ship today, besides shipments to distributors. We're right on schedule.


----------



## Bananaheadlin

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Just a few C5's will ship today, besides shipments to distributors. We're right on schedule.


 
  Are all other JDS products shipping prolonged due to the preorder queue of the new C5?


----------



## luisdent

miceblue said:


> Pre-ordered C5's are starting to ship tomorrow. Stay tuned for initial impressions next week.




Are you sure? I thought the 28th? . Can't wait!


----------



## Bill-P

Hopefully John or someone from JDS Labs can answer this:
   
  I looked through the source code of the firmware (version 1.04 or 104 as of this post), and I could not find anything regarding bass boost control, either volume or frequency or otherwise. But I know there is a bass boost switch in front of the amp.
   
  So is it possible to control what the switch does from the firmware? Or is it mostly hardware-driven?


----------



## ostewart

Bass boost is hardware from what I know


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





bill-p said:


> Hopefully John or someone from JDS Labs can answer this:
> 
> I looked through the source code of the firmware (version 1.04 or 104 as of this post), and I could not find anything regarding bass boost control, either volume or frequency or otherwise. But I know there is a bass boost switch in front of the amp.
> 
> So is it possible to control what the switch does from the firmware? Or is it mostly hardware-driven?


 
  The bass boost toggle is all analog control. Flip the switch down and you get the +6.5 dB bass boost at 80 Hz, flip the switch up and you get no bass boost.
  The digital potentiometer is controlled with the code since it's digital. That's why the code has volume and gain control options, as well as opening possible button configurations for different settings.
   
   
  Quote: 





jipod said:


> Please ignore previous post. miceblue is correct. Quote from JDS Labs' blog:
> 
> February 22, 2013 at 12:07 am
> We shipped 11% of preorders by 7PM this evening, and expect to fill all preorders by February 28th as promised.


 
  Yup, I received the shipment notification via e-mail yesterday.


----------



## Bill-P

Okay, thanks for the explanation.
   
  However, I didn't see more settings within the firmware, either. It's mostly just gain control, and volume control, plus some battery configuration (how often to scan for low battery, and how "low" is really "low", and what to do when low on battery).
   
  The way I'm seeing it, the firmware is mostly there so people can fine-tune how they want the digital volume pot to behave, and how the amp behaves (volume, gain) at certain battery levels, or when it's turned on/off.
   
  Please correct if I'm wrong.


----------



## HeadFiend

miceblue said:


> Flip the switch down and you get the +6.5 dB bass boost at 80 Hz, flip the switch up and you get no bass boost.




Are you sure? Looking at the pictogram, the opposite would make more sense (up = more, down = none).


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





headfiend said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It is strange, but from JDS Lab's C5 blog post:
  Quote: 





> Bass Boost Toggle up for normal audio, toggle down for bass boost


 
  Looking more closely at the press release photos, all of the C5's have the switch in the up position.
   
   
  Quote: 





bill-p said:


> Okay, thanks for the explanation.
> 
> However, I didn't see more settings within the firmware, either. It's mostly just gain control, and volume control, plus some battery configuration (how often to scan for low battery, and how "low" is really "low", and what to do when low on battery).
> 
> ...


 
  Yeah all of the current settings are for gain, volume control, LED/battery regulation, but you can add code to change the way the digital potentiometer acts (e.g. pressing the gain switch twice to go into insensitive headphone mode where the volume might go up/down faster than normal), or how the LED operate (e.g. during low-battery maybe have the LED flash instead of stay on).


----------



## Bill-P

So it's mostly just usability tweaks. I was somehow under the impression that the firmware was for somehow being able to tune the SQ of the amp.
   
  Ah well, I'll see how C5 fairs against C421 before I place an order then. I'm liking C421, but there are areas where I think C421 can be improved upon.


----------



## juntom10

Mine is shipped!! Cant wait!


----------



## illusioned

same! haha


----------



## jseaber

Quote:


miceblue said:


> It is strange, but from JDS Lab's C5 blog post:
> Looking more closely at the press release photos, all of the C5's have the switch in the up position.


 
   
  The switch position was a choice of performance over aesthetic intuition. I wanted bass boost Up, and normal audio Down also, but that analog path used the longer set of legs on the switch. It's important to keep pathways short in this section of circuitry.



ostewart said:


> Bass boost is hardware from what I know


 
   
  Correct. A switch also yields greatest performance. We did two prototypes with digital pots in place of the toggle switch, but there's no true "off" state. The wiper presents a small amount of resistance even at minimal position. Thus, bass boost could never truly be turned off in the chosen circuit, and you'd experience an extremely small amount of phase and frequency response manipulation. So we went back to a DPDT toggle to control bass boost.
   
  We released firmware source code for the benefit of the DIY community. It's not intended to manipulate SQ.
   
   


bananaheadlin said:


> Are all other JDS products shipping prolonged due to the preorder queue of the new C5?


 
   

  No way! We stay on top of incoming orders. All in-stock orders placed through Friday afternoon have already shipped.
   
  25% of C5 preorders have also shipped by now. The remaining 75% will be fully tested and ready to ship as soon as the second round of cases come back from the anodizer (Wednesday).


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> miceblue said:
> ...


 
  Sounds great! It's cool to hear that you did try it out, but opted out for performance instead of aesthetics.
   
  As for re-programming the C5, on the blog it mentions that a 6-pin header and an ISP programmer are needed. The SparkFun webpage that is linked mentions that the 6-pin cable is included with the ISP programmer. I haven't used Arduino before (first time learning experience!  ), so I'm wondering how does one connect the C5 to the Arduino? I can't really tell from the photo on the blog how it's connected.


----------



## ClieOS

It starts to get weird when people are concerning which direction of the switch is bass boost or not


----------



## luisdent

clieos said:


> It starts to get weird when people are concerning which direction of the switch is bass boost or not




Yeah, we're not particular about things at all here at head-fi are we?


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Sounds great! It's cool to hear that you did try it out, but opted out for performance instead of aesthetics.
> 
> As for re-programming the C5, on the blog it mentions that a 6-pin header and an ISP programmer are needed. The SparkFun webpage that is linked mentions that the 6-pin cable is included with the ISP programmer. I haven't used Arduino before (first time learning experience!  ), so I'm wondering how does one connect the C5 to the Arduino? I can't really tell from the photo on the blog how it's connected.


 
   
  The 6-pin ISP header is unpopulated. See "JP1", near the bottom left corner of the battery:

   
   


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Off-topic%20engineering...



 
  There are two ways to interface an Atmega chip:
  1) ISP, via 6-pin header
  2) Serial pins, usually via FTDI (USB-to-serial bridge)
  [size=1em]Atmega's latest AT90USB series microcontrollers have onboard USB support for direct programming via USB (no FTDI or ISP required). But, they dropped I2C support pins on the equivalent 16K microcontroller, and we need I2C to interface the digital potentiometers.[/size]
  Since firmware should never need to be flashed on a C5 amp, we decided not to implement FTDI, as it would be a waste of money to most users.
  The 6-pin ISP header had to be omitted on production units due to physical height. A standard 0.1in, 6-pin header simply will not fit in the C5 case. You can still solder in the header; pins can be slightly trimmed to fit. All well within the capabilities of a DIY'er.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Okay I see what you mean now. This sounds like a fun project; I haven't had to solder header pins before, but it looks doable. Thank you for the heads up!


----------



## rckyosho

miceblue said:


> Okay I see what you mean now. This sounds like a fun project; I haven't had to solder header pins before, but it looks doable. Thank you for the heads up!




I recommend using an angled 6 pin header rather than straight up making for easier access due to the battery near jp1 and might even be able to fit in the case and might save you the trouble of cutting the pins(even if you do need to cut it up to fit the case it will be easier) since this is your attempt at doing it.


----------



## audionewbi

Ordered mine via noisymotel, cant wait.


----------



## 808Ronin

Anxiously awaiting a comparison review between C5 and C421 w/ 8260 opamp before i can finalize my deision to buy or not.. The wallet will remain on lock down till then.


----------



## Vanquiz

So, which color has bigger sound stage? Lol

The red is super hot, but the slate is nice and match my Ed.8 better... Hmm tough decision...


----------



## DMinor

The red sounds more intimate if that matters to you. The color may have a placebo on your perception to sound and the slate may well be sounding dark.


----------



## drachen

Quote: 





vanquiz said:


> So, which color has bigger sound stage? Lol
> 
> The red is super hot, but the slate is nice and match my Ed.8 better... Hmm tough decision...


 

 The red is more likely to get you tickets, where i hear the slate is rock-solid.  The gray is pretty neutral on things, though it was only implied by gray...


----------



## miceblue

The bass boost sounds pretty rockin' with the K 701, but way too much for a much bassier V-MODA Crossfade M-100 (although it does remind me of a live concert kind of bass).
  The volume lever is really smooth, and I mean REALLY smooth. I'm still playing around with it. Having no channel imbalance at low listening levels is great for low-volume listeners such as myself.
  The gain toggle takes some time to get used to since it's hard to push in, you have to push it right in the center, but it works well.


----------



## drachen

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> The bass boost sounds pretty rockin' with the K 701, but way too much for a much bassier V-MODA Crossfade M-100 (although it does remind me of a live concert kind of bass).
> The volume lever is really smooth, and I mean REALLY smooth. I'm still playing around with it. Having no channel imbalance at low listening levels is great for low-volume listeners such as myself.
> The gain toggle takes some time to get used to since it's hard to push in, you have to push it right in the center, but it works well.
> 
> ...


 
  Red is definitely faster!  Miceblue has his already!   Mine is sitting at home waiting for me.  Guess who is clocking out early today?    /me points at himself


----------



## miceblue

Initial comparisons between the C5 and the O2, to me at least, the O2 has a larger soundstage with better instrument separation, the C5 has more bass (though I admit it is hard for me to properly volume match).


----------



## thor777

Is that with the BassBoost off?
   
  Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Initial comparisons between the C5 and the O2, to me at least, the O2 has a larger soundstage with better instrument separation, the C5 has more bass (though I admit it is hard for me to properly volume match).


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





thor777 said:


> Is that with the BassBoost off?
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
  It is with bass boost off; the bass boost is a pretty large boost in bass.
  How does one volume-match between two amplifiers? I want to make sure my observations are fair, and that the C5 just isn't at a higher volume level.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> It is with bass boost off; the bass boost is a pretty large boost in bass.
> How does one volume-match between two amplifiers? I want to make sure my observations are fair, and that the C5 just isn't at a higher volume level.


 
   
  Get a fake head with microphones in it and record the output of the headphones?   haha


----------



## thor777

Placed my order of a red C5 ^^ upgrading from my CMoyBB, can't wait for it to arrive!


----------



## Craigster75

C5 vs. E12.......


----------



## drachen

Quote: 





craigster75 said:


> C5 vs. E12.......


 

 You sunk my Battleship!


----------



## Bill-P

Quote: 





craigster75 said:


> C5 vs. E12.......


 
   
  Let's try something more realistic: C5 vs C421!


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





bill-p said:


> Let's try something more realistic: C5 vs C421!


 
  well we can still compare the E12 with C5 if we are able to volume match them. Sure E12 will have more power but at certain point both amp will get loud on the same level.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> It is with bass boost off; the bass boost is a pretty large boost in bass.
> How does one volume-match between two amplifiers? I want to make sure my observations are fair, and that the C5 just isn't at a higher volume level.


 
   
  Play a sine wave (say, 1kHz) from your computer and measure the amplifiers' outputs with a multimeter until both have the same reading.


----------



## fuzzyash

any plans on combining the jds labs amp with a dac in one housing?


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Play a sine wave (say, 1kHz) from your computer and measure the amplifiers' outputs with a multimeter until both have the same reading.


 
   
  Pardon my ignorance, but can someone tell me how to do this?  I assume you put one lead on a section of the inner headphone jack and the other lead on the other section?  Can you harm anything if you touch the wrong thing or touch leads together?  Am I way off?  What settings would you use to measure? :-/


----------



## drachen

I tried to take photos of my red C5, but have not been able to remove my phone from the thing since i started listening.  I assume the battery will die sometime so i'll try once I am charging it.
  The volume control so far is good.  I haven't thought it lacking in volumes between steps and the gain control (press in on the volume) is easy to press, so far no problems.
   
  I can write up more later.  
  Cheers,


----------



## audionewbi

If anyone has the RSA shadow can they do a quick comparison, I think shadow is the only DAC in the market which is worth of getting compared with the C5. (I know ibasso T5 tried to implement digital volume but they failed )


----------



## miceblue

I purchased a 40x3 pack of straight header pins from Fry's Electronics (it was only $1.99 USD), and it looks like they'll fit right-in with a slight trim. I'll soldering later when I get the ISP programmer and make sure the pins fit in the connector.

   

   

   
   
  As for the multimeter test, I'm guessing you measure the voltage reading? I was going to stick a removable audio cable in the C5/O2 and measure the voltage across the ring/tip (R/L channel) and sleeve (ground).


----------



## luisdent

miceblue said:


> I purchased a 40x3 pack of straight header pins from Fry's Electronics (it was only $1.99 USD), and it looks like they'll fit right-in with a slight trim. I'll soldering later when I get the ISP programmer and make sure the pins fit in the connector.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That makes more sense.. Using a cable/jack with open wire ends... Dur


----------



## rckyosho

Or you can use a sound level meter if you have one which is easier.


----------



## rckyosho

miceblue said:


> I purchased a 40x3 pack of straight header pins from Fry's Electronics (it was only $1.99 USD), and it looks like they'll fit right-in with a slight trim. I'll soldering later when I get the.......




Now that does not look bad at all...and here I am expecting the worse.


----------



## drachen

Some photos with my C5 after finally getting home.  This little thing is a beast.  I picked up a 10cm FiiO cable with the C5 using my Epic4G (Wolfson w/ voodoo) for a source.  The stack fits in my shirt pocket great, tomorrow around work I am trying pants front.  I don't have another amp to compare to, but so far it has brought out the depth of strings, voices and highs, then with the bass boost, my SE425's makes me think I have a whole new pair of IEMs.  Next up is a friends pair of SRH840's.


----------



## miceblue

Well then, my multimeter doesn't have small enough AC voltage increments for portable headphone amplifiers, so I tried to volume match the best I can with a 1 kHz sine wave generated from Audacity.
   
  Setup:
  MacBook Pro Retina Display (source) -> Audirvana Plus media player (hog mode and integer mode on) -> JDS Labs ODAC -> -> JDS Labs C5 and JDS Labs Objective 2 (using a V-MODA SharePlay cable as a cable splitter with another interconnect cable)
  I switched the headphone cable between the headphone-out ports of the O2 and C5 for A/B testing, switching times were less than 1 second using a V-MODA Crossfade M-100 as my headphone of choice (it's my go-to headphone for portable use).
   
  To me the O2 and C5 sound very close to each other, but the O2 still sounds a bit more spacious and instruments seem more dynamic with more air between them.
   
  Test tracks:
  Daft Punk - Robot Rock
  Ottmar Liebert - Snakecharmer
  Massive Attack - Teardrop
  I Ching - Beauty is Everywhere (24/96)
  Beth Orton - Magpie
   
   
  Not to say the C5 sounds bad, I think it sounds fantastic and is a really great amplifier for portable use, sensitive headphones, and for low-volume listeners (such as myself). Given the choice between the C5 and the O2 for a portable headphone amplifier, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the C5. I also LOVE the bass boost for the AKG K 701. Don't forget about the re-programmable digital potentiometer too.


----------



## nOtEcH

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Initial comparisons between the C5 and the O2, to me at least, the O2 has a larger soundstage with better instrument separation, the C5 has more bass (though I admit it is hard for me to properly volume match).


 
  I think that you should give the C5 some hours of "burning in" before you do a serious comparing.
  To compare a brand new C5 amp to your O2 (that I guess have "a few hours" more of use) is in my opinion unfair.
   
  I'll guess that around 200 hours with the C5, it will "open it up" a bit.
   
  I have now placed an order for a C5 (silver), and hopefully I will recieve it sooooon!
  I can't wait.. I am looking forward to get to know this little amp.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





notech said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I personally don't believe in burn-in for solid state amplifiers, but I will give it some run-time. Time to go to bed and run some pink noise with it.


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> To me the *O2 and C5 sound very close to each other*, but the O2 still sounds a bit more spacious and instruments seem more dynamic with more air between them.
> 
> 
> Not to say the C5 sounds bad, I think it sounds fantastic and is a really great amplifier for portable use, *sensitive headphones, and for low-volume* listeners (such as myself).


 
  This what I needed to hear, thank you, the wait is killing me more....


----------



## FatmanSize48

notech said:


> I think that you should give the C5 some hours of "burning in" before you do a serious comparing.
> 
> To compare a brand new C5 amp to your O2 (that I guess have "a few hours" more of use) is in my opinion unfair.
> 
> ...




I can't tell if he's being sarcastic with that first part.


----------



## nOtEcH

Hehe.. I see your point, but no.. I was not sarcastic. 

I have with every purchase I have done.. do not recall my first cassette player ++ though.. so let's just include hi-fi and high-end stuff I have purchased the last 10 years or so.

Amplifiers (solid state, hybride (ss with tubes), CD players, DAC, speakers, headphones, cables (interconnects, speaker cables, headphone cables) they have all changed for the better over time before they "settle". But of course some of them have benifited from the "burning in" more than others.

Actually the only thing I can't say that I have noticed changing is power cables. I can hear differences between some of them, but I have not noticed the benefit of "burning in".

But that's just my experience. And it could just be that I am a bit loco.. actually I am..


----------



## drachen

With my SE425 IEM's: I've turned up the C5 in both gain modes w/ and w/o bassboost on and the thing is SILENT.  Which is nice.  I have also tried the same test while charging, and have been listening while charging.  No noise from the charging circuit that I can tell at all.  The USB cable does have a ferrite core on it, which may or may not change anything.


----------



## thor777

Where are all the impressions and reviews?!


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





thor777 said:


> Where are all the impressions and reviews?!


 
  I posted mine in a few posts up:
  Quote: 





> Well then, my multimeter doesn't have small enough AC voltage increments for portable headphone amplifiers, so I tried to volume match the best I can with a 1 kHz sine wave generated from Audacity.
> 
> Setup:
> MacBook Pro Retina Display (source) -> Audirvana Plus media player (hog mode and integer mode on) -> JDS Labs ODAC -> -> JDS Labs C5 and JDS Labs Objective 2 (using a V-MODA SharePlay cable as a cable splitter with another interconnect cable)
> ...


 
   
   
  I'll be at school all day so I won't be able to do much listening for the time being. I ordered a FiiO E3 so I'll see how things sound with an iPhone as well.


----------



## drachen

Quote: 





thor777 said:


> Where are all the impressions and reviews?!


 

 I am going to make an attempt to some sort of review tonight.  I don't have another amp to compare to (aside from my Technics receiver) so take it with a grain of salt.
  Thus far, listening with my Shure SE425's I have found a preference of louder gain while keeping the volume down and bassBoost off.  I tried my friends Sony mdr-7506's and those sound great with the boost on!  Lots of fun.  So far I've been loving the increased clarity, especially on the high end.  I've been noticing a lot of parts to my music that I hadn't been hearing before.  I'll put together a more in-depth review later tonight.  When I upgraded my phone to voodoo sound I thought, It cant get much better than this, my IEM's sound awesome!  I'll say that again now, its my first amp and I was very surprised how much depth was added by an amp.  
   
  thor777, anything you want me to try? specifically?


----------



## thor777

I saw yours and one other guy posted as well.  Only 2 tho!  Bunch of people must have received theirs since JDS started shipping them....I ordered mine yesterday but I guess I'm just too excited and can't wait for more impressions!
   
  Quote: 





miceblue said:


> I posted mine in a few posts up:
> 
> 
> I'll be at school all day so I won't be able to do much listening for the time being. I ordered a FiiO E3 so I'll see how things sound with an iPhone as well.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





thor777 said:


> I saw yours and one other guy posted as well.  Only 2 tho!  Bunch of people must have received theirs since JDS started shipping them....I ordered mine yesterday but I guess I'm just too excited and can't wait for more impressions!
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
  Well they did just start shipping on Friday, so people will probably be getting them this week.


----------



## drachen

Quote: 





thor777 said:


> I saw yours and one other guy posted as well.  Only 2 tho!  Bunch of people must have received theirs since JDS started shipping them....I ordered mine yesterday but I guess I'm just too excited and can't wait for more impressions!


 
  Oh man, this is the best thing ever!  I don't know how you could wait for one, you ordered with rocketmail 2 hour shipping right?!?!!!
  I'd say its about Pi to E times a Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster. It will make your ears bleed awesomesauce, and your cochlea will grow unicorn horns! (They make everything insanely great!)
   
  P.S. rocketmail was something the US did during the cold war while competing with the USSR for ridiculous things we do on a daily basis that we could do better. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_mail
   
  P.P.S.  Sorry thor777 I couldn't resist.


----------



## Dojomoto

* DELAY ON C5 SHIPMENTS ANNOUNCED !*
   
"*Edit (Feb 26):* Over 25% of C5 preorders have shipped. All PCBs have been tested and are awaiting final enclosure assembly. Our enclosure finishing contractors called this morning to report a 2-3 day delay, so remaining C5 orders will ship Feb 28 thru March 6."
   
   I was wondering why there weren't others who had received their orders. I ordered very early on and have not received a shipment email. At least now we know why. *Twiddles thumbs while waiting for the week long delay*.


----------



## audionewbi

well that sucks


----------



## drachen

Quote: 





dojomoto said:


> * DELAY ON C5 SHIPMENTS ANNOUNCED !*
> 
> "*Edit (Feb 26):* Over 25% of C5 preorders have shipped. All PCBs have been tested and are awaiting final enclosure assembly. Our enclosure finishing contractors called this morning to report a 2-3 day delay, so remaining C5 orders will ship Feb 28 thru March 6."
> 
> I was wondering why there weren't others who had received their orders. I ordered very early on and have not received a shipment email. At least now we know why. *Twiddles thumbs while waiting for the week long delay*.


 

 Well now I feel like a total *****.   Sorry thor.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





dojomoto said:


> * DELAY ON C5 SHIPMENTS ANNOUNCED !*
> 
> "*Edit (Feb 26):* Over 25% of C5 preorders have shipped. All PCBs have been tested and are awaiting final enclosure assembly. Our enclosure finishing contractors called this morning to report a 2-3 day delay, so remaining C5 orders will ship Feb 28 thru March 6."
> 
> I was wondering why there weren't others who had received their orders. I ordered very early on and have not received a shipment email. At least now we know why. *Twiddles thumbs while waiting for the week long delay*.


 
   
  My heart just sank.  haha
   
  Did my anodizing graphic break the anodizer?


----------



## burrrcub

woo glad mine shipped yesterday


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'm guessing you meant the laser engraving machine?....unless you asked for an exotic anodised colour such as hot pink.


----------



## rckyosho

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> My heart just sank.  haha
> 
> Did my anodizing graphic break the anodizer?


 
  From what I heard the delay was in fact cause by the engraver tool broken due to some elaborate design on one of the C5 pre-order.
  So now I know who to blame for delaying me getting my hands on one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## audionewbi

I hope in future JDS goes with smaller emblom, it will both look better and it will save them time. Not a fan of excessive decoration on case. simplicity is the best.


----------



## luisdent

miceblue said:


> I'm guessing you meant the laser engraving machine?....unless you asked for an exotic anodised colour such as hot pink.




Yes I meant laser... Oops 



rckyosho said:


> From what I heard the delay was in fact cause by the engraver tool broken due to some elaborate design on one of the C5 pre-order.
> So now I know who to blame for delaying me getting my hands on one
> 
> 
> ...




You HAVE to be kidding right?!!? That's not even funny if you're joking :-o

:-/


----------



## rckyosho

luisdent said:


> Yes I meant laser... Oops
> You HAVE to be kidding right?!!? That's not even funny if you're joking :-o
> 
> :-/




Ok ok I'm kidding alright....just could not stand the wait thats all.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





rckyosho said:


> Ok ok I'm kidding alright....just could not stand the wait thats all.


 
   
  i know


----------



## aoiziptw

it sad to hear there is a delay... but it won't kill me as my work's business trip is still another 3 weeks away.
  i can still wait...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... i hope... ... 
   
  for people that have received it, what is the sound stage like for the vocal and instrument compared to O2?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





aoiziptw said:


> it sad to hear there is a delay... but it won't kill me as my work's business trip is still another 3 weeks away.
> i can still wait...
> 
> 
> ...


 
  To me the O2 and C5 sound very close to each other, but the O2 still sounds a bit more spacious and instruments seem more dynamic with more air between them.
   
  I'll have to do a more careful listen between the two, but I've been really busy so I haven't had the chance.


----------



## Mannes

Hi everyone I am new here butI did read this forum alot.
It seems the people on this forum are nice so I joined.
But now on topic I ordered one also yesterday I am going to use it with a beyerdynamic DT1350.


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





mannes said:


> Hi everyone I am new here butI did read this forum alot.
> It seems the people on this forum are nice so I joined.
> But now on topic I ordered one also yesterday I am going to use it with a beyerdynamic DT1350.


 
  congrats and welcome to the forum


----------



## ostewart

Mine shipped yesterday to, I'll be getting an engineering sample to review, specs are the same as proper product units. Will then update first post with full review


----------



## miceblue

I did a quick listening test with the C5 vs O2 again, my statements from yesterday still stand with the soundstage. The O2 seems more spacious and puts more air between instruments, but the C5's more "closed-in" soundstage actually makes the mids sound a little more up-front/focused to me. I used the same setup as yesterday but with the K 701 instead of the M-100.
   
  Test track 1:
  Vanessa-Mae - Emerald Tiger
  The grand orchestra(?) sounding part part at around 3:10 sounds a little more natural with the airier O2, but the more upfront violin sounds rather pleasant with the C5 too (same with the part at around 2:30).
   
  Test track 2:
  Opus Two, Charles Bernard, Marin Mazzie - Sonata for Clarinet and Piano (arr. William Terwilliger) - I - Grazioso - Un poco piu mosso
  Similar findings for the violin part at around 0:46. The C5 sounds a little more engaging with the slightly forward mids, but the airiness of the O2 gives the sense of a more natural-sounding stage.
   
  Test track 3 (just for the bass boost toggle):
  Lindsey Stirling - Electric Daisy violin
  YEAH, this bass boost is pretty sweet! It's as if someone was listening to the song and then "theater-mode" bass rumble turns on. I can't wait to try the bass boost feature while gaming with the K 701.


----------



## Mannes

audionewbi said:


> congrats and welcome to the forum




Thank you very much


----------



## thor777

Drachen, what was your previous setup before getting the C5?
  Quote: 





drachen said:


> *...**I've been noticing a lot of parts to my music that I hadn't been hearing before...*


 
   
  It's all your fault, you jinx'd it!  j/k haha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I'm definitely disappointed that I'll need to wait even longer for it......
  Quote: 





drachen said:


> Well now I feel like a total *****.   Sorry thor.


----------



## Koopa989

who is gonna be the first to compare this with the E12?


----------



## drachen

Quote: 





thor777 said:


> Drachen, what was your previous setup before getting the C5?
> 
> It's all your fault, you jinx'd it!  j/k haha
> 
> ...


 

 Wouldn't be the first time.  Sometimes I get blamed just for walking in the room! 
   
  My previous setup was a Cowon G3 or my Epic 4G (wolfson) driving my se425's directly.  Aside from my home stereo (an older Technics) I have had no previous amp (I are an amp newb.) I want to throw a pair of portapros and ksc-75's on it also, but my sister and friend have absconded with them for now.
   
  I was in the market for a FiiO E11, (it was in the shopping cart and "Checked out") then I caught the pre-order of the C5.  I decided to triple my budget because I was on the fence with buying an O2, but wanted something smaller and voila!  Also, the arduino part was calling my inner nerd, and I was hesitant on the E11 due to reviews on IEM's at low volume.  I was also looking at the e17, but was not sold on a digital volume control, as they usualy have too large of steps for my liking (it was nice to read that was one of the primary considerations with the C5.)  Oh, and it didn't hurt to get a reply from the engineer within an hour on my questions. 
   
  I just ordered a Clip+ (newegg has as screaming deal on refurb 8 gigs right now 25$) to try as a source also.


----------



## JohanJ

It was a really nice surprice to see a paperslip laying just inside the door when I got home from work today saying I had a package from JDSLabs to pick up. Since it was shipped the 23:rd I wasn't expecting it for atleast a few more days. USPS estimated 1-4 weeks delivery time, I got it in less than 5 days including the weekend.
  An even better surprise was when I got home after picking it up and heard how good my Etymotic ER-4s sound when amplified using the C5.
  It's obvious that I should have bought an amplifier years ago. 
   
  I can't really write a review, there are guys far more qualified out there for that. This is more of a "Haha, I got mine!" rub it in your face kind of post. (Whey!! I got mine!!)
  What I can say though is that it looks amazing (went for the red one) and the build quality is very good down to every singel little detail.
  When the bas boost is activated the boom you get from the tiny ER-4s is almost as big as from the Ultrasone Pro900's. Almost a little to much to be honest.
  I do appreciate that they've milled around the headphone socket so you can fit plugs with a wideer base.
   
  Now if anyone has any suggestions on how to attach the C5 to the back of my phone feel free to pm me.


----------



## thor777

I see some people use silicone bands like those donation bracelets.  I use 2 velcro strips to attach my CMoyBB to the back of my Cowon Z2 so I can detach/reattach easily.  It does increase the overall thickness about 1/8" though.  Or you can just use rubber bands.....
   
  Quote: 





johanj said:


> Now if anyone has any suggestions on how to attach the C5 to the back of my phone feel free to pm me.


----------



## imackler

Quote: 





johanj said:


> Now if anyone has any suggestions on how to attach the C5 to the back of my phone feel free to pm me.


 
   
  I liked this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/644230/rubber-bands


----------



## Greed

Quote: 





johanj said:


> It was a really nice surprice to see a paperslip laying just inside the door when I got home from work today saying I had a package from JDSLabs to pick up. Since it was shipped the 23:rd I wasn't expecting it for atleast a few more days. USPS estimated 1-4 weeks delivery time, I got it in less than 5 days including the weekend.
> An even better surprise was when I got home after picking it up and heard how good my Etymotic ER-4s sound when amplified using the C5.
> It's obvious that I should have bought an amplifier years ago.
> 
> ...


 
  3M Dual Lock ftw.


----------



## ostewart

Quote: 





greed said:


> 3M Dual Lock ftw.


 
  I use this too, had my C421 attached to my iPod like that, hardly any extra thickness, and super strong hold without it moving like with rubber bands.
   
  Will be using Dual lock with the C5 too


----------



## juntom10

Just received C5.
   
  It is smaller than i thought!
   
  So far I really like it!
   
  Here are some pics.


----------



## bwaterme

Got mine today from my wife for my 40th Bday.  This is my first amp so I have nothing to compare it to.  To me it sounds great and the bass boost is a little addictive.  I think I may be a closet bass head as it turns out.  My wife even noticed that her Etymotics sounded way better out of the C5 versus straight out of my iPod Classic 5th gen.  And my wife will rarely admit one of my toys actually sounds better.


----------



## Lusamars

I am curious to hear them paired with my Grado PS500. Need to go for a trip to vancouver and test it in person if its available. however I have few questions:when you guys turn the bass boost on will it affect the mids or highs somehow or its totally transparent? and did anyone try them with these or other grados? whats your opinion on the bass impact? I really like the PS500 sound BUT wished it had more bass out of my iPad and its kinda bugging me when I play techno or anything electronic. thanks


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





lusamars said:


> I am curious to hear them paired with my Grado PS500. Need to go for a trip to vancouver and test it in person if its available. however I have few questions:when you guys turn the bass boost on will it affect the mids or highs somehow or its totally transparent? and did anyone try them with these or other grados? whats your opinion on the bass impact? I really like the PS500 sound BUT wished it had more bass out of my iPad and its kinda bugging me when I play techno or anything electronic. thanks


 
  The bass boost to me sounds like a wide-band bass boost, so even though the bass boost is at 80 Hz, I can hear more rumble with sub-bass and more lower-mids, so in a sense it does affect the mids a little. It definitely isn't totally transparent, and I don't think a +6.5 dB boost would be. The wide-band bass boost is the kind of rumble "theater" effect I mentioned earlier. It doesn't have the clean bass impact I would have preferred, where the bass boost is a narrower band, but it does increase the bass impact, yes. In this sense, the bass boost doesn't sound clean per se, but it's strangely addicting to me, honestly. Maybe it's because I tend to listen to music at low volume levels, and at that point the bass is often drowned out first (equal loudness contours).
   
  As for how my rig is "bundled", I'm just using the rubber feet on the bottom of the C5 to protect my iPhone from being scratched. The rig doesn't move enough in my pocket to worry about it too much.

   
  I mentioned this in the V-MODA M-100 thread but I finally got a LOD for my iPhone, and it does make a difference to me. While double amping, the music sounded a little better in terms of the midrange being more forward and the soundstage sounding a bit wider, but with the LOD the music just has another level of clarity. The M-100's sound really good with an iPhone 4S (256 kbps VBR MP3) and the C5 with the FiiO L3. The midrange is brought forward a little, treble smoothed out more so it's not as fatiguing for louder volume levels, bass impact is cleaner, there is the sense of a wider soundstage, and the instruments have more air between them; the sound seems comparable to an O2 using the L3 but with slightly less instrument separation, a bit narrower soundstage, and a slightly more forward midrange.
   

   
  With the bass boost on, you get a pretty substantial amount of bass. I think it'll satisfy the needs of a basshead for bass rumble, or for road warriors who want a little more oomph in the bass region with the extra outside noise.
   
  Also, a bit off-topic, but why is it that when I use the FiiO L3 LOD with the Objective 2, the volume I get out of the O2 is EXTREMELY loud, as in I have to turn the volume knob nearly all the way down to get to a more listenable volume level for me (yes this is in the channel imbalance region).
   
  On the other hand, when I plug-in the C5, I can listen to my music at much more reasonable volume level. Is it due to the power output differences? How does the gain factor into this? The O2 has a gain of 1.0, whereas the C5 is 2.3.
   
  Headphone of choice for this comparison was the V-MODA M-100, a fairly sensitive 32 Ω headphone.


----------



## Apo0th3karY

With an LOD, you're bypassing the iPhones volume control, so the source volume is set, and all volume controlled via the amp.


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> The bass boost to me sounds like a wide-band bass boost, so even though the bass boost is at 80 Hz, I can hear more rumble with sub-bass and more lower-mids, so in a sense it does affect the mids a little. It definitely isn't totally transparent, and I don't think a +6.5 dB boost would be. The wide-band bass boost is the kind of rumble "theater" effect I mentioned earlier. It doesn't have the clean bass impact I would have preferred, where the bass boost is a narrower band, but it does increase the bass impact, yes. In this sense, the bass boost doesn't sound clean per se, but it's strangely addicting to me, honestly. Maybe it's because I tend to listen to music at low volume levels, and at that point the bass is often drowned out first (equal loudness contours).
> 
> As for how my rig is "bundled", I'm just using the rubber feet on the bottom of the C5 to protect my iPhone from being scratched. The rig doesn't move enough in my pocket to worry about it too much.
> 
> ...


 
  does this also happen when you try double amping? if your O2 already has a lower gain than the C5,  then it must be the way the amps are handling the input current or voltage


----------



## Dark Helmet

Quote: 





juntom10 said:


> Just received C5.
> 
> It is smaller than i thought!
> 
> ...


 
  Looks great!  How is the sound of it?
   
  What about the cosmetic condition of it? Be picky cause I am.  I got the Apex Glacier and didn't feel the cosmetic condition I got mine was worthy of a $495(at this price I should be picky) price tag.  That being said Todd is a very nice man and has treated me well.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Any1 have seen any RMAA measurement (or can do it themselves?) with bass boost on yet? I'd be curious to see how the curve of the bass boost looks like. 
   
  I actually like the idea about 80Hz centered bass, well ideally for the music I listen to I'd say ~65Hz had been ideal but I concider 80Hz to be quite the border where you could split subbass and midbass apart and from my experience testing lots of bassy headphones, checking their graphs, EQ'd etc; 80Hz peaked bass brings the ideal impact, you want equally much midbass as subbass if you want the biggest possible impact in the bass. I actually prefer the bass curve to have a peak and not go linearly down with the same amount bass to say below 30Hz or whatever, this just muddens up the bass response due to those lower frequencies needing so much more power and low frequencies are also slow. If you like punchy bass, a slight roll-off down deep is actually welcome and equally it should start to roll off somewhere between 150-200Hz in the upper-end to avoid midrange bleed/smoothing out of midrange details.
   
  So +6.5dB and peaked around 80Hz, is this info accurate at least?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





rpgwizard said:


> Any1 have seen any RMAA measurement (or can do it themselves?) with bass boost on yet? I'd be curious to see how the curve of the bass boost looks like.
> 
> I actually like the idea about 80Hz centered bass, well ideally for the music I listen to I'd say ~65Hz had been ideal but I concider 80Hz to be quite the border where you could split subbass and midbass apart and from my experience testing lots of bassy headphones, checking their graphs, EQ'd etc; 80Hz peaked bass brings the ideal impact, you want equally much midbass as subbass if you want the biggest possible impact in the bass. I actually prefer the bass curve to have a peak and not go linearly down with the same amount bass to say below 30Hz or whatever, this just muddens up the bass response due to those lower frequencies needing so much more power and low frequencies are also slow. If you like punchy bass, a slight roll-off down deep is actually welcome and equally it should start to roll off somewhere between 150-200Hz in the upper-end to avoid midrange bleed/smoothing out of midrange details.
> 
> So +6.5dB and peaked around 80Hz, is this info accurate at least?


 
  From JDS Lab's C5 blogpost:
  Quote: 





> C5 Frequency Response (Bass boost): +6.5dB @ 80Hz


 
   
   
  Quote: 





kamijoismyhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  With my initial testing, no. But then I realised that I have a volume cap on the iPhone at ~40% from the maximum. Without the volume cap, and the iPhone's volume on maximum, I get the same effect.
  Now that I'm listening to the O2 with the iPhone on max volume, I guess the volume level is actually quieter than the C5 at the lowest settings. My original observation was with the potentiometer at around the 8 o'clock position, which is after the channel imbalance region, and explains why I was hearing my music really loud. In the channel imbalance region of the O2, it does indeed reach a lower volume level at 1.0x gain versus the minimum volume level with the 2.3x gain of the C5. Sorry for the false alarm.
   
  It looks like the C5's digital volume potentiometer saves the day with channel imbalance!


----------



## rckyosho

Finally!!!! Got my hands on the C5. I'll leave the impressions to the others as I suck at it.
   
  Anyway I have something special planned for the C5 ever since I saw the C5 board and it's case.
  Below is a topview of my unit.
   

   
  Notice the wordings below the JDSlabs and the red thingy below the C5.
  What might it be...you ask.....well some might know it.
  For those that don't, Well the red thingy is a the called UD100, The smallest DAC that I know of that uses the
ESS Sabre ES9023 chip.Go here if you want to know more about it.
   
Well what has the wordings "Sabre32 DAC Version" and the UD100 has got to do with anything?
  Since the C5 is considered similar sounding to the O2 as the UD100 to the ODAC(don't quote me on this) and
if your trying to guess and thinking wouldn't it be great if you could stuff a DAC unit into the C5
than that is exactly what I've done! while still maitaining the functionality of the C5 as a stand alone amp!
   
Ok not going to bore you with the all the details....I'll just let the pics do the talking.
   
   

  Sizing it up.
   

  The jack of the UD-100 removed due to height issue and also open/bare contacts.
   
   

   
  The output from UD100 soldered to the input of the C5 and also the OTG cable soldered on the UD100 that is going to my S3.
  The UD100 is held by double-side tape.A dummy jack is plugged(no left channel if left unplug due to the switching design of the input jack.
   

  Opening on the top front plate to allow for the OTG cable through.
   

  All assemble up and ready to use.
   

   

   
   

  Finally getting to enjoy the C5 after all that work.
   

  The modded C5 still usable as an amp.
   
  PS: Exuse me for some of the picture quality..tired after all that work.


----------



## putente

Wow! Great mod! Congratulations, *rckyosho*! Maybe you'll give JDS Labs some new ideas...


----------



## Greed

Yea, definitely very crafty.. nice mod! This would be very interesting if JDSLabs, could implement a DAC/AMP version. Congrats, I bet in sounds great!


----------



## rckyosho

Thanks guys.And after all that work it does sound great to my ears and seems better than the apex glacier to me although I have not really done a proper comparison volume match and all.

And yeah hopefully JDSLabs offer one with the ODAC built in...that'll be great!


----------



## Bill-P

You're seriously making me second-guess my C421...
   
  Can anyone say how the C5 compares to the C421? I'm sure a lot of folks have had time to burn their C5's in.


----------



## Lusamars

Thanks for the explanation miceblue.


----------



## DMinor

I thought by now many have received the C5's. Where are the initial impressions?


----------



## luisdent

I'm going through amp withdrawal and I don't even own it yet


----------



## 214324

@rckyosho
   
  Nice job!


----------



## Bananaheadlin

Wow, that's a great and smart mod! Congratulations Rckyosho!


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





putente said:


> Wow! Great mod! Congratulations, *rckyosho*! Maybe you'll give JDS Labs some new ideas...


 
   
  Wow! I was curious about this engraving request...


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Wow! I was curious about this engraving request...


 
   
  Haha.  That's awesome.  I think it was well planned.   Now that we know my graphic break the anodizer, how much do I owe you? haha.   Can't wait for the amp!
   
  This may have already been covered, but I know the bass boost is a hardware switch, so does that mean the bass setting can't be modified if someone wanted to adjust the frequency or amount?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





rckyosho said:


> Anyway I have something special planned for the C5 ever since I saw the C5 board and it's case.


 
   
  Excellent mod of combining UD100 and C5!!!


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





rckyosho said:


> Finally!!!! Got my hands on the C5. I'll leave the impressions to the others as I suck at it.
> 
> Anyway I have something special planned for the C5 ever since I saw the C5 board and it's case.
> Below is a topview of my unit.
> ...


 
  Wow, that's a really clever mod! Well done!
How do you know where the input is for the C5? I was trying to look at the PCB board, but I can't properly "read" it and trace the pathways of what things go to what. Oh I see, never mind. I didn't see the wires connecting to the input port of the C5. Instead of putting the source into the 3.5 mm port, you re-wired it so the input would come from the USB instead. Very cool indeed!


----------



## audionewbi

haha anyone else wishing to see JDS labs think of doing similar mod in future?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> haha anyone else wishing to see JDS labs think of doing similar mod in future?


 
  I think it would be pretty neat if JDS Labs could offer a USB DAC/amp similar to how something like a FiiO E7 works (one unit instead of 2 separate ones).
   
  Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You are correct, it can't be modified.


----------



## luisdent

miceblue said:


> I think it would be pretty neat if JDS Labs could offer a USB DAC/amp similar to how something like a FiiO E7 works (one unit instead of 2 separate ones).
> 
> You are correct, it can't be modified.



Oh,I thought john said he could change the boost on request? I assume he must change a component then? Oh well. I hope it works well with my phones :-o


----------



## jseaber

Quote:


luisdent said:


> Oh,I thought john said he could change the boost on request? I assume he must change a component then? Oh well. I hope it works well with my phones :-o


 
  Bass boost is fixed for optimal performance. There's a longer discussion buried somewhere in this thread.
   
   


audionewbi said:


> haha anyone else wishing to see JDS labs think of doing similar mod in future?


 
   
  A fresh design makes most sense for production.
   
   
  Looking forward to seeing all of these C5's ship next week


----------



## audionewbi

havent been this excited about an amp for a while.


----------



## rckyosho

Wow! (again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) thanks all and from the "man" himself, thanks jseaber.
   
  Ok, I'll say it again I suck at doing impressions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  Anyway been doing more comparisons between my version of the C5 and the Apex Glacier(both amp/dac combo).
  Volume was matched with an SPL meter. Song chosen was from Immediate Music : TRAILERHEAD - Track No.4 - Serenata Immortale.
  Trailerhead is known for making mordern ochestral and choral music or Epic and Cinematic, so should be good to make a comparision with as there are many instrument playing and people singing.What I can say is I can make out details like soft singing behind the instruments playing much better with my version of the C5 than with the
  Apex Glacier....both sounded good but my pick would be the C5/UD-100 combo.(see I suck 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 at doing review/comparisions)
   
  So go ahead and buy the C5...you won't regret it.
   

   

   
   
   
  Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Bass boost is fixed for optimal performance. There's a longer discussion buried somewhere in this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   Yes, that is more logical....so when are we seeing a C6 or the next amp/dac combo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Bass boost is fixed for *optimal* performance. There's a longer discussion buried somewhere in this thread.


 
   
  I'd disagree there though, not that I think every amp should have configurable bass boost but the problem is this; some people prefer 0dB bass boost, some maybe wants +7dB and for some people +15dB is ideal etc. Headphones come from like say -5dB to +15dB variety in the bass, I fail to see the argument how a "fixed" setting will be ideal for every person and every headphone. Adding more settings preserving the same tested and optimized curve while just lowering/raising the peak, the chances are more people will find their wanted bass levels and the headphone choice becomes less picky.  The more the merrier. It's hard enough finding a headphone with the sound you truly love, finding that sound signature with the right amount of bass is even more harder why I like bass boost options on amps, to greatly easen search for "the holy grail" setup for your taste/preferences as it becomes one factor less to worry about.


----------



## LoveKnight

Waiting for comparison between C421 and the new C5 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. UD100 + C5 is better than Glacier then ODAC + C5 will blow Glacier away (just kidding).


----------



## Greed

Quote: 





rpgwizard said:


> I'd disagree there though, not that I think every amp should have configurable bass boost but the problem is this; some people prefer 0dB bass boost, some maybe wants +7dB and for some people +15dB is ideal etc. Headphones come from like say -5dB to +15dB variety in the bass, I fail to see the argument how a "fixed" setting will be ideal for every person and every headphone. Adding more settings preserving the same tested and optimized curve while just lowering/raising the peak, the chances are more people will find their wanted bass levels and the headphone choice becomes less picky.  The more the merrier. It's hard enough finding a headphone with the sound you truly love, finding that sound signature with the right amount of bass is even more harder why I like bass boost options on amps, to greatly easen search for "the holy grail" setup for your taste/preferences as it becomes one factor less to worry about.


 

 I think you are missing the mark a bit as well. You don't buy an amp to change or alter the "imperfections" of your headphones. A headphones sound signature should not change much when plugged into any amp (excluding Tube Amplifiers). If you don't like something about your headphones, I wouldn't expect an amp to change that much, you have to find a new headphone. That is the way I have always looked at it.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





greed said:


> I think you are missing the mark a bit as well. You don't buy an amp to change or alter the "imperfections" of your headphones. A headphones sound signature should not change much when plugged into any amp (excluding Tube Amplifiers). If you don't like something about your headphones, I wouldn't expect an amp to change that much, you have to find a new headphone. That is the way I have always looked at it.


 
   
  I disagree a bit here.  I used to think that as well, until I tried practically every IEM on the market. ha.  None of them are perfect and they all lack something.  I personally am going for 100% neutrality. With that said the very few extremely flat IEMs I've tried a lacking a bit of bass.  Just a slight boost at the right frequency would make them perfect.  EQ isn't always an option on some devices.  So if you're using an amp anyway, the right amount of bass boost could be a god send.
   
  If I think "i'll find another headphone that has better bass" it's not going to happen.  At least not easily without millions of hours of searching and an endless wallet.  Whereas any of the few neutral phones I've found could be rectified with the correct amount of bass at the right frequency range.
   
  So for the "most" part I agree that you should aim for the best possible match of sound preference via your headphones first and foremost.  But after that the amp would be the second best help in my opinion to slightly craft the sound to achieve the best results.  So I wouldn't call it altering "imperfections" per se, but rather bringing the sound closer to perfect or closer to someone's desire...
   
  That's how I look at it anyway.


----------



## Greed

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> I disagree a bit here.  I used to think that as well, until I tried practically every IEM on the market. ha.  None of them are perfect and they all lack something.  I personally am going for 100% neutrality. With that said the very few extremely flat IEMs I've tried a lacking a bit of bass.  Just a slight boost at the right frequency would make them perfect.  EQ isn't always an option on some devices.  So if you're using an amp anyway, the right amount of bass boost could be a god send.
> 
> If I think "i'll find another headphone that has better bass" it's not going to happen.  At least not easily without millions of hours of searching and an endless wallet.  Whereas any of the few neutral phones I've found could be rectified with the correct amount of bass at the right frequency range.
> 
> ...


 

 I definitely agree, that those small tweaks in regards to bass is always nice to have with an amp, but I think "expecting" that your amp will somehow change the sound signature of your headphones/earphones is unrealistic. Also criticizing a company for not having adjustable bass boost is going about it the wrong way. I love having the option to alter the sound of my headphones through an amp, but I won't expect it to change it dramatically. But I can understand the reasoning behind wanting an adjustable bass boost, it would cater to the needs of everyone, I just don't think it is realistic.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





greed said:


> I definitely agree, that those small tweaks in regards to bass is always nice to have with an amp, but I think "expecting" that your amp will somehow change the sound signature of your headphones/earphones is unrealistic. Also criticizing a company for not having adjustable bass boost is going about it the wrong way. I love having the option to alter the sound of my headphones through an amp, but I won't expect it to change it dramatically. But I can understand the reasoning behind wanting an adjustable bass boost, it would cater to the needs of everyone, I just don't think it is realistic.


 
   
  Exactly.  John is awesome for even giving us a bass boost on such a cool amp.  I personally would rather have quality than any bass boost anyway.  But if it doesn't hurt things it's cool.  If there were any other changes a three way switch with maybe half way between would be cool though...  i haven't heard it yet, but the frequency range seems like it is a good choice for general purpose...


----------



## miceblue

In any case, I'm finding the bass boost quite convenient for mobile listening. It adds the just the right amount of bass to make the bass more audible over the extra ambient background noise and greatly improves the audio listening experience I get. For home use, sure it might be too much for most portable headphones, but I think it works pretty well for more more bass-shy or bass-neutral headphones if you want some extra "oomph", or weight, or impact from the lower-end of the frequency spectrum.
   
  So in this sense, from my experience, for me at least, the bass boost is quite optimal.


----------



## jonbmet

Glad I upgraded to expedited shipping only to wait. I can only hope they're working the weekend and nights to get the pre-order amps shipped out considering I had to work them to be able to afford something like this...


----------



## luisdent

miceblue said:


> In any case, I'm finding the bass boost quite convenient for mobile listening. It adds the just the right amount of bass to make the bass more audible over the extra ambient background noise and greatly improves the audio listening experience I get. For home use, sure it might be too much for most portable headphones, but I think it works pretty well for more more bass-shy or bass-neutral headphones if you want some extra "oomph", or weight, or impact from the lower-end of the frequency spectrum.
> 
> So in this sense, from my experience, for me at least, the bass boost is quite optimal.




That's what I'm hoping for... A little more low body to my etymotic er4s or pfe112. Otherwise I'll never touch it with other phones...


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





jonbmet said:


> Glad I upgraded to expedited shipping only to wait. I can only hope they're working the weekend and nights to get the pre-order amps shipped out considering I had to work them to be able to afford something like this...


 
   
  jonbmet: I work 9am-2am + weekends and my employees do the same when the work demands it (yes, 100+ hour weeks). We're at a standstill until Monday due to a delay from the enclosure "bead blasters". Fortunately, we built extra time into the shipping schedule and will only land ~2 business days away from the goal. I don't like excuses, so the shop who imposed the delay is fired and we're already working with another vendor in St. Louis. Next week will be rough.
   
  luisdent: By optimal, I meant no variable bass boost. See post #286 for the discussion I previously referenced. Three fixed bass levels would be reasonable.
   


rckyosho said:


> Yes, that is more logical....so when are we seeing a C6 or the next amp/dac combo
> 
> 
> 
> ...


   


   
  It's hard to predict the future!


----------



## jonbmet

I appreciate the response (and the PM). Glad to hear you're taking action too. I eagerly await my new amp.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> luisdent: By optimal, I meant no variable bass boost. See post #286 for the discussion I previously referenced. Three fixed bass levels would be reasonable.


 
   
  John, I thought I had read that in there.  That's awesome.  Do you mean that would be reasonable for the next amp you release?  Or as in you can put that in the c5?   haha  Either way, that would be a very nice touch.  I think people would appreciate two options of bass boost.  Anything beyond that is really unnecessary in my opinion.  One setting is already probably great for most, but some people here and there might just want half that or twice that.  So getting two options would help that a lot.  Say +3 and +6 or perhaps +4 and +8.  Something like that anyway.  Either would be close enough and I'd leave that up to your judgement.
   
  I would think 3 and 6 might make the most sense as you seem to have chosen 6 based on your clients? preferences.  If that's the case +6 would be great and for those who think it's a bit much +3 would be perfect.  Just my thoughts on it.  I'd love a 3/6 option in my amp, but I'm happy with 6 if that's all there is.  It seems like a reasonable amount to get that extra boost without being too much.  But I'll report back once I hear mine.


----------



## goodvibes

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> In any case, I'm finding the bass boost quite convenient for mobile listening. It adds the just the right amount of bass to make the bass more audible over the extra ambient background noise and greatly improves the audio listening experience I get. For home use, sure it might be too much for most portable headphones, but I think it works pretty well for more more bass-shy or bass-neutral headphones if you want some extra "oomph", or weight, or impact from the lower-end of the frequency spectrum.
> 
> So in this sense, from my experience, for me at least, the bass boost is quite optimal.


 
  I think that is about it's best use. If you want more tailoring, I think you should be looking at your control device (DAP) and not the amp.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





goodvibes said:


> I think that is about it's best use. If you want more tailoring, I think you should be looking at your control device (DAP) and not the amp.


 
   
  Unfortunately most control devices don't have the best eq.  I use an ipod for many reasons, and the stock eq's are all completely un-useable.  There are eq apps that are better, but none of them will play any of my purchased music, eat battery faster, and have interfaces of various quality levels.  So again, the amp makes the most sense.  But keep in mind, I'm only talking about a slight change.  I'm not asking for an eq on the amp, nor do I want full bass customization.  I simply think two options is the best way to go.
   
  You know once single bass option is never going to work for everyone, but two is a very good compromise.  Simply half of the bass boost if it's a high value or double the bass boost if it's a low value.  If that is possible with a three way switch and it doesn't add substantial cost or difficulty, as I would assume from john's reply, than I don't see why anyone would have a problem with that solution?


----------



## JiPod

Mine arrived today here in Tokyo, Japan. Combined w/ NW-A867, variable volume LOD, and M-100.


----------



## juntom10

Wow! I only see red versions.... lol


----------



## audionewbi

I hope they email the Australian batch this week, I be happy to get them by friday


----------



## 808Ronin

RED seems to be  a very popular color.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





808ronin said:


> RED seems to be  a very popular color.


 
  It is a very attractive colour in my opinion. Not very many companies offer portable amplifiers with different colour options, so having something other than the regular 'ol black or silver is a neat offer.
   
  I tried the K 701's with "Crysis Warhead" and boy does that bass boost switch do wonders for explosions! I'm loving it so far; the K 701's detail retrieval + imaging + C5's bass boost "theater-effect" explosions.


----------



## illusioned

finally arrived in singapore after a week using the first class international mail


----------



## IanM

How suitable is the C5 as a desktop amp? does it charge whilst in use?
   
  I read somewhere that the C5 is recommended for IEMs/headphones of 32Ω or greater, but the C5 output impedance is stated as 2Ω on the specification page. I'm considering some Sony earphones that are 16Ω, so by the ⅛ ruile of thumb the C5 should be suitable?


----------



## ostewart

Should be great as a desktop and portable for IEMs as it doesn't suffer from channel imbalance.


----------



## IanM

Edited my post, the IEM bit is probably irrelevant to use on the desktop, but the no channel imbalance is the key reason I'm interested in this.


----------



## ocelot2500

For those that already have one, has there been any hiss with the sensitive IEMs?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





ocelot2500 said:


> For those that already have one, has there been any hiss with the sensitive IEMs?


 
  I don't own any "hi-fi" earphones, but I hear absolutely no background hiss with a Sennheiser CX-300 at max source volume, max C5 volume, max gain, bass boost on. The C5 was specifically designed to have no background hiss with IEM's.
   
   
  Quote: 





ianm said:


> How suitable is the C5 as a desktop amp? does it charge whilst in use?
> 
> I read somewhere that the C5 is recommended for IEMs/headphones of 32Ω or greater, but the C5 output impedance is stated as 2Ω on the specification page. I'm considering some Sony earphones that are 16Ω, so by the ⅛ ruile of thumb the C5 should be suitable?


 
  Desktop works fine. I'm actually giving the C5 more use over the O2 since I got it. They have their differences in sound but they're pretty subtle and I don't think you're missing much with the C5 over the O2. I actually prefer the C5 because:

 It stacks well with the ODAC
 It has a bass boost switch
 No channel imbalance at low volume levels
 Smaller footprint/more portable
   
  16 Ω IEM's should be fine with the C5 and meet's the "magic 8" damping factor. Again, the C5 was specifically designed with IEM's in mind. And yes you can use the C5 while charging it via mini-USB.


----------



## luisdent

My C5 just shipped!  Woooh!  By the way John, there is a rumor going around now that my image broke the engraver. haha.  This is not true correct?


----------



## juntom10

My rig with C5


----------



## burrrcub

How'd you get 8620 opamp? Didn't know that was an option and I'm not liking the opa227 so far


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





burrrcub said:


> How'd you get 8620 opamp? Didn't know that was an option and I'm not liking the opa227 so far


 
  John allowed special requests, but that offer is no longer available. What's wrong with the OPA2227?


----------



## adamlr

Quote: 





burrrcub said:


> How'd you get 8620 opamp? Didn't know that was an option and I'm not liking the opa227 so far


 

 not to pick a fight, but the opamp isnt the only component in the design. shouldnt the overall sound be considered, rather than just the opamp? granted, i dont really know, but im pretty sure you can have two different amps, using the same opamp, but still sounding different. is fussing over one single component advisable? john said the c5 was designed around the 2227. and from what i can tell, the c5 measures pretty well with it. so why not?


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





juntom10 said:


> My rig with C5


 
   
  What's the black box thingy?  Some sort of power unit or line out device?  I see it has a usb looking connector but it also appears to go into the c5?


----------



## Gradyoactive

Has anybody tried the C5 with 250 ohm headphones?  I plan on buying Beyer DT250's and I need an amp that can power their 250 ohm impedance.


----------



## Gradyoactive

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> What's the black box thingy?  Some sort of power unit or line out device?  I see it has a usb looking connector but it also appears to go into the c5?


 
  It looks kind of like the HiFiMan HM-101 DAC, but all black.  So I assume it is a DAC, as it goes between the source and the amp.


----------



## juntom10

Quote: 





gradyoactive said:


> It looks kind of like the HiFiMan HM-101 DAC, but all black.  So I assume it is a DAC, as it goes between the source and the amp.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





luisdent said:


> What's the black box thingy?  Some sort of power unit or line out device?  I see it has a usb looking connector but it also appears to go into the c5?


 
   
  It is a Sabre DAC from HifimeDIY. 
   
  Galaxy note 2 -> otg cable -> Sabre DAC -> interconnect -> C5 -> headphones..


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





gradyoactive said:


> Has anybody tried the C5 with 250 ohm headphones?  I plan on buying Beyer DT250's and I need an amp that can power their 250 ohm impedance.


 
   
  I have the hd600 and those are 300-ohm.  I haven't tried them yet, but john said the C5 will handle them just fine.


----------



## IanM

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> ...you can use the C5 while charging it via mini-USB.


 
   
  useful to know thanks!
   
  one more question, are any other colours planned for the C5?


----------



## 214324

Quote: 





ianm said:


> useful to know thanks!
> 
> one more question, are any other colours planned for the C5?


 
  I'm hoping for something to match the ODAC case.


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





hybridcore said:


> I'm hoping for something to match the ODAC case.


 
  they sell silver case with C5, unless your ODAC is black that will be a nice match, dont you think?


----------



## 214324

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> they sell silver case with C5, unless your ODAC is black that will be a nice match, dont you think?


 
  Doesn't silver or black on the ODAC only indicate faceplate colors? I just assumed since I didn't see photos of a silver case for the ODAC.
   
  Unless you're referring to just the faceplates matching.


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





hybridcore said:


> Doesn't silver or black on the ODAC only indicate faceplate colors? I just assumed since I didn't see photos of a silver case for the ODAC.
> 
> Unless you're referring to just the faceplates matching.


 
  you are 100% correct, ODAC has a slate colour with silver face plate, my apologies. C5 also offer the same configuration. So if you you like silver face plate with slate body on your C5 it will match the ODAC.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Quote: 





hybridcore said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The JDS Labs ODAC has a very very very dark slate (black?) body with a silver front plate (unless you ordered black).
   

   

   

  ^the light reflection makes the ODAC look lighter than it is
   

  ^ various black things in comparison


----------



## audionewbi

thanks


----------



## burrrcub

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> John allowed special requests, but that offer is no longer available. What's wrong with the OPA2227?


 
   
  Quote: 





adamlr said:


> not to pick a fight, but the opamp isnt the only component in the design. shouldnt the overall sound be considered, rather than just the opamp? granted, i dont really know, but im pretty sure you can have two different amps, using the same opamp, but still sounding different. is fussing over one single component advisable? john said the c5 was designed around the 2227. and from what i can tell, the c5 measures pretty well with it. so why not?


 
   
  It's prone to static interference and it ruins my experience.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





burrrcub said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Static interference? Wouldn't that be an issue with the enclosure rather than the op-amp? I don't think switching the op-amp would fix that issue.
  Speaking of which, I did hear the cell phone interference sound through my headphones when passing through a certain area near where I live (the "boo boop, boo boop, boo boop, boo boop, boo boop" sound such as when you get a text or something).


----------



## burrrcub

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Static interference? Wouldn't that be an issue with the enclosure rather than the op-amp? I don't think switching the op-amp would fix that issue.
> Speaking of which, I did hear the cell phone interference sound through my headphones when passing through a certain area near where I live (the "boo boop, boo boop, boo boop, boo boop, boo boop" sound such as when you get a text or something).


 
   
  My c421 with 8620 never had that problem and it's known to not get any interference.  My source is my cell phone and the static goes away when I'm on airplane mode.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





burrrcub said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hm that's interesting. Perhaps it's not the enclosure then since I think the C5 and the C421's enclosures are identical, except the front plate of course. Still, the circuit is different from the C421, so you can't completely blame the op-amp.


----------



## burrrcub

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Hm that's interesting. Perhaps it's not the enclosure then since I think the C5 and the C421's enclosures are identical, except the front plate of course. Still, the circuit is different from the C421, so you can't completely blame the op-amp.


 
   
  I'm sure it's the opamp.  My UHA-6S MKII had similar static problem with the OPA209.  Switching to the 8610, it went away.  Even Nick at Leckerton confirmed certain opamps are more likely to have interference than others.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





burrrcub said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I see, good to know then. I always thought that kind of interference was due to lack of shielding in the enclosure and/or cables, hence why I originally said maybe it was the enclosure that was the issue:
   
  Quote: 





uncle erik said:


> Your cell phone is actually a radio transceiver more than a phone. Cells put out up to 0.25W of power and they check in periodically with the nearest cell tower, whether or not you're using the phone.
> 
> What you're hearing is RFI interference from the phone. It broadcasts and your amp picks up the signal. RFI can be a tricky beast to tame. It's sorb of like waterproofing something where you can't see the water, it reflects off some materials and comes in through small cracks.
> 
> The most obvious way to solve it is to keep your amp away from the phone. Shielded cables, ferrite beads and other methods can work, but RFI can still get in. If you're building an amp, be sure to use an aluminum case - it's great shielding. I think Nevada Surplus has some cases that are RFI tight at a good price. Still, try to move your rig away from the phone. Radio signal strength drops off exponentially with distance.


----------



## customNuts

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> It is a very attractive colour in my opinion. Not very many companies offer portable amplifiers with different colour options, so having something other than the regular 'ol black or silver is a neat offer.
> 
> I tried the K 701's with "Crysis Warhead" and boy does that bass boost switch do wonders for explosions! I'm loving it so far; the K 701's detail retrieval + imaging + C5's bass boost "theater-effect" explosions.


 
  I was thinking of getting the akg q701 & the c5 - Would you say they have some decent synergy??


----------



## illusioned

the bass boost brought meaning to bass on my dba 02 lol. nice deep rumble (tho it can get quite annoying when the track has accented the bass)


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





customnuts said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The C5 works well for the K 701 for the most part.
   
  I was doing some testing between the C5 and O2 again and the C5 seems to be a tad bit brighter than the O2. So in terms of synergy, the O2 might be a better choice for the K 701, but it doesn't sound all that bad. I'm not too familiar with synergy with the K 701, but they do sound good with the C5.
   
  Test tracks:
  Battles - Futura
  Dj CUTMAN - 8-Bit Brawl (ft. S&CO)


----------



## rckyosho

jseaber said:


> It's hard to predict the future!




Hahaha...sure John nobody can predict the future, I'm just curious to see if you've got any plans for one.



gradyoactive said:


> Has anybody tried the C5 with 250 ohm headphones?  I plan on buying Beyer DT250's and I need an amp that can power their 250 ohm impedance.






luisdent said:


> I have the hd600 and those are 300-ohm.  I haven't tried them yet, but john said the C5 will handle them just fine.



Driving the DT250 or any high impedance phones shouldn't be a problem just don't forget to change to the high gain setting by pressing the volume control inwards to toggle between 2.5x to 6.5x gain setting.


----------



## miceblue

Since my comparisons between the O2 and C5 are kind of scattered at this point, I'll re-compile them here. I guess this can be a mini-review too since the O2 is kind of my reference amp.
   
  (the first amp listed in each bullet-point has the advantage, in my opinion; the order of bullet points is irrelevant)
  * Sound:

 O2 gives the sense of a larger soundstage with more air between instruments; C5 sounds more boxed-in
 O2 sounds a bit more dynamic; C5 sounds a little duller (not boring dull, but instruments don't sound as "full")
 O2 has a smoother treble (I don't think smoother is the right word for this, nor is rolled-off, but it's not as fatiguing compared to the C5); C5 sounds a tad bit brighter
 C5 has a midrange that is is a tad bit more forward and engaging; O2 sounds more laid-back
   
  * Features:

 O2 has adjustable gain settings with removable resistors (1.0x, 2.5x, 6.5x); C5 has fixed gain settings (2.3x, 6.5x)
 C5 is much more portable in terms of footprint/size; O2 is often considered more transportable than truly portable
 C5 has a claimed 14-hour battery life (I will need to do a more careful log of the hours I use the C5 for a real-world test); O2 has around 7 hours of battery life from when I tested it
 C5 has a bass boost switch (+6.5 dB at 80 Hz); O2 doesn't have such a feature
 C5 has no channel imbalance at even the lowest volume levels; the O2 has a channel imbalance before the ~8 'o-clock position
 C5 has a re-programmable digital potentiometer (bass boost switch and gain amount are not re-programmable); the O2 doesn't have such a feature
 C5 has various colour options for the anodized aluminum enclosure; the O2 has a fixed enclosure but with options for the colour of the faceplate
   
  To me, the biggest difference in sound between the O2 and the C5 is the larger soundstage. The slightly forward midrange and slightly brighter sound of the C5 are noticeable, but they don't jump at me as being the first difference of sound. For $190 USD, I think the C5 is a great portable amplifier that offers a similar sound to the O2. Unfortunately I can't compare it to anything else worthy of being compared to (JDS Labs c421, Leckerton UHA-4, and FiiO E12 all come to mind), but I do like how the C5 sounds next to an O2, and it is good enough for me to recommend the C5 to someone looking for a more portable O2.
   
  Don't forget, the C5 wasn't built to sound like the O2 according to the design priorities of the C5; the THD+N measurements happened to line up with that of the O2 though:
  Quote: 





> C5 is not a response to the Objective2, nor to competitors’ products


 
   
   
  And this might boil down to what I've been curious about recently. Do amps with more power make headphones sound "bigger" and more "full"? The O2 is my reference amp and it packs a lot of power. From the designer's blog, the O2 was built specifically to address the needs of the K 701, or similar hard-to-drive headphones. The slightly "smaller-sounding", less dynamic C5 didn't have such a design goal, but it does supply enough power for the K 701 based on linear extrapolated values.
   
  From other threads in other places around Head-Fi, I have received various replies about this. Some people say the O2 supplies ample power to most headphones; other people say higher power amps do indeed sound "fuller" than amps that supply less power and that even if the O2 supplies enough power, sometimes it doesn't sound as "full" as other amps that offer more power. Of course, the way in which the circuit is designed makes a difference too, but I am wondering if anyone here can offer some insight to add to the information I have been gathering about this subject. Again, I do find the O2 to sound more full and dynamic than the C5, but I can't completely say it's due to the power difference.


----------



## audionewbi

Thanks that is a a very useful review. I hope the soundstage is not that much different as I believe O2 soundstage is already just right, any less would have been just congested. I just have to wait and see.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Thanks for the detailed comparison miceblue! I've been wondering about getting a little higher quality amp to use beside ZO too. I've mostly been looking at O2 vs C5 vs C&C BH. I think I will rule out O2 even if it's perhaps the most impressive one technically because it has no bass boost option and the battery life is very poor and these other two remains still very impressive at their price point it seems.
   
  Now is the question, C5 vs C&C BH?  BH comes also with a SF switch (soundstage/soundfield modification) which may or may not come handy, haven't heard it so.


----------



## Bill-P

C5 definitely. If it's anything like C421, then it sounds better than BH. C421 has both a larger soundstage and more solid bass compared to BH.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





rpgwizard said:


> Thanks for the detailed comparison miceblue! I've been wondering about getting a little higher quality amp to use beside ZO too. I've mostly been looking at O2 vs C5 vs C&C BH. I think I will rule out O2 even if it's perhaps the most impressive one technically because it has no bass boost option and the battery life is very poor and these other two remains still very impressive at their price point it seems.
> 
> Now is the question, C5 vs C&C BH?  BH comes also with a SF switch (soundstage/soundfield modification) which may or may not come handy, haven't heard it so.


 
  Dooh, I knew I was missing an amp in my list of amps I hear about but haven't heard in-person before. I'm not sure about the BH amp unfortunately.


----------



## Apo0th3karY

Quote: 





rpgwizard said:


> Thanks for the detailed comparison miceblue! I've been wondering about getting a little higher quality amp to use beside ZO too. I've mostly been looking at O2 vs C5 vs C&C BH. I think I will rule out O2 even if it's perhaps the most impressive one technically because it has no bass boost option and the battery life is very poor and these other two remains still very impressive at their price point it seems.
> 
> Now is the question, C5 vs C&C BH?  BH comes also with a SF switch (soundstage/soundfield modification) which may or may not come handy, haven't heard it so.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





bill-p said:


> C5 definitely. If it's anything like C421, then it sounds better than BH. C421 has both a larger soundstage and more solid bass compared to BH.


 
   
  +1
   
  I don't even think the two should be compared. It'd be interesting, but I have a feeling the C5 will outclass the BH everywhere but maybe soundstage, and the sometimes superficial size/portability, I can't say for certain because I haven't heard the C5, but based on objectivity, it's close comparisons with O2, and it's neutrality, as well as the fact I consider the BH a 'fun', configurable amp, they're different amps altogether.
   
  That said the BH is a great value at $100; the fun factor, size, dual outputs with diff imp and slightly diff sound, GC - gain control, LF - bassboost/v-shape, and SF- SoundField switches with all their combinations, and the 80 hour invincible battery..... The C5 just seems less 'fun' to me. So I think it all comes down to preference. 
   
  I do want a C5 though, it does sound impressive and I've always considered a  C421, I just ended up hopping on the BH train for it's price, and I've been so satisfied with it since, that I haven't even thought about getting a different amp for any reason yet.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Quote: 





apo0th3kary said:


> I don't even think the two should be compared. It'd be interesting, but I have a feeling the C5 will outclass the BH everywhere but maybe soundstage, and the sometimes superficial size/portability, I can't say for certain because I haven't heard the C5, but based on objectivity, it's close comparisons with O2, and it's neutrality, as well as the fact I consider the BH a 'fun', configurable amp, they're different amps altogether.
> 
> That said the BH is a great value at $100; the fun factor, size, dual outputs with diff imp and slightly diff sound, GC - gain control, LF - bassboost/v-shape, and SF- SoundField switches with all their combinations, and the 80 hour invincible battery..... The C5 just seems less 'fun' to me. So I think it all comes down to preference.
> 
> I do want a C5 though, it does sound impressive and I've always considered a  C421, I just ended up hopping on the BH train for it's price, and I've been so satisfied with it since, that I haven't even thought about getting a different amp for any reason yet.


 
   
  Yea I was figuring you'd say something like that but TBH, I'm not truly looking for "neutrality" I'm a person that is a great fan of "engaging" / fun listen. To me that means a mixture of reasonably strong bass response (not single-note boomy bass, but strong punchy textured bass) with as forward / "in-your-face" mids as possible you can get while still having a big bass coupled with it (I actually hate laid-back / distant sound or hollow midrange for that reason) and pretty neutral and maybe even very slightly relaxed highs but just very little bit, think moderately warm tonality. I hate emphasized/sparkly highs, when it's more sparkly than in real life, then it's too much even if it doesn't cause any sibilance issues etc. I can stand mellow highs better than edgy/harsh highs.
   
  ZO v2.1 that I have actually has a bit that kind of signature why I like it (it has more fullier/forward mids than ZO2.3 but equally slightly smoothed out highs), I just would like to have something complementing that amp that is a little less colored in that way with more detail but especially slightly bigger soundstage (ZO make it quite a lot "in-your-face" why there's not much room for soundstage) and slightly more accurate but still has a similar sound signature (just a bit less so).
   
  If any1 got any idea which one would fit best, please share! It does sound like C5 would be the best fit, it also has a pretty suitable +6.5dB bass boost for my basshead-in-me-that-will-never-cure needs.


----------



## ostewart

Mine just arrived! Will update with impressions later


----------



## Apo0th3karY

Totally, I don't think the BH is for everyone, where the C5 is probably more suited for you. I lost interest in the E12 since the C5 came out and impressions arose. It'd be nice to have a more objective amp than the BH, but the BH is still great. Heck I might start losing interest in C5 if I figure I'd rather an O2 for home use and just the BH for portable use, the 80 hours can't be beat.
   
  For me, I do love my boosted bass (and it's incurable like yourself), midrange is very important, but I also like sparkly treble; I like warm tonality, but love sparkle and air in the treble region, which is why I love the M-100/BH combo.


----------



## rckyosho

Quote: 





rpgwizard said:


> Yea I was figuring you'd say something like that but TBH, I'm not truly looking for "neutrality" I'm a person that is a great fan of "engaging" / fun listen. To me that means a mixture of reasonably strong bass response (not single-note boomy bass, but strong punchy textured bass) with as forward / "in-your-face" mids as possible you can get while still having a big bass coupled with it (I actually hate laid-back / distant sound or hollow midrange for that reason) and pretty neutral and maybe even very slightly relaxed highs but just very little bit, think moderately warm tonality. I hate emphasized/sparkly highs, when it's more sparkly than in real life, then it's too much even if it doesn't cause any sibilance issues etc. I can stand mellow highs better than edgy/harsh highs.
> 
> ZO v2.1 that I have actually has a bit that kind of signature why I like it (it has more fullier/forward mids than ZO2.3 but equally slightly smoothed out highs), I just would like to have something complementing that amp that is a little less colored in that way with more detail but especially slightly bigger soundstage (ZO make it quite a lot "in-your-face" why there's not much room for soundstage) and slightly more accurate but still has a similar sound signature (just a bit less so).
> 
> If any1 got any idea which one would fit best, please share! It does sound like C5 would be the best fit, it also has a pretty suitable +6.5dB bass boost for my basshead-in-me-that-will-never-cure needs.


 
   
  Not a basshead but I do prefer clean sub-bass(100hz and below) that gives you the impact,weight of a song and a punchy,chest-thumping for the  bass itself but fairly neutral mids and highs...reason for me liking the M-100 so much. Had the BH and E11 and now the Apex Glacier,an old Xenos X0HA-REP and lastly the C5.
 Not really sure what would fit you best but will definitely steer you to the C5 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. But I do miss the BH(don't ask me why it's no longer with me).Heck it!! why don't you just get both as the BH is really a fun amp to play with.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





rckyosho said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I think the ZO2 has the best rumble for the sub-bass, but I like the wide-band "theater" bass of the C5's bass boost. The ZO2 definitely sounds great with the M-100 and is a better bass boost in the sense that it can be adjusted, but the C5's bass boost is actually quite handy for the M-100 as well for noisier environments.


----------



## ostewart

+1 on C5 bass boost, very well done.
First impression, cleaner than C421, more sparkle in the highs. Will be updating as I listen more


----------



## ostewart

+1 on C5 bass boost, very well done.
First impression, cleaner than C421, more sparkle in the highs. Will be updating as I listen more


----------



## Apo0th3karY

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
+1
   
  I think all this just sold me on the C5 sooner.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> +1 on C5 bass boost, very well done.
> First impression, cleaner than C421, more sparkle in the highs. Will be updating as I listen more


 
  Thanks for posting your initial impressions. I'm kind of interested to see how the C5 improves over the c421's sound quality.


----------



## Craigster75

How is the power on the C5 compared to others like the E12 and BH?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





craigster75 said:


> How is the power on the C5 compared to others like the E12 and BH?


 
  I can't say much about the E12 other than they provide 880 milliwatts at 32 Ω, and the BH just has a single power measurement, 300 milliwatts, at an unknown impedance.
   
  From JDS Lab’s official C5 blog post:
  3.337 VRMS @ 150 Ω = 74.24 milliWatts
  4.146 VRMS @ 600 Ω = 28.65 milliWatts
  14.0 Vpp (peak-to-peak voltage) = 4.214 Volts (maximum output voltage)
   
  Extrapolated values (assuming linear behavior):
  86.19 milliWatts @ 32 Ω (typical portable headphones)
  87.81 milliWatts @ 16 Ω (typical earphones)
  59.05 milliWatts @ 300 Ω (Sennheiser HD 650, HD 600, and HD 800 [from Sennheiser's website])
  84.37 milliWatts @ 50 Ω (approximate impedance for planar magnetic HiFiMAN and Fostex T50RP Mad Dog headphones)
  82.95 milliWatts @ 62 Ω (AKG K 701/ K 702/ Q 701)
   


Spoiler: Math



Power Equation:
  Power = Voltage * Current
  P = V * I          (1)
  Units: Watts = Volts * Amperes
   
Ohm’s Law:
  Voltage = Current * Resistance
  V = I * R
  Re-arranged: I = V / R          (2)
  Units: Amperes = Volts / Ohms
   
  Re-arranging Equation (1) to include Equation (2):
  Power = Voltage * (Voltage / Resistance)
  P = V * (V / R)
  P = (V^2) / R          (3)
  Units: Watts = Volts^2 / Ohms
   
  Voltage_RMS = peak-to-peak Voltage * log(2)          (4)
  Units: Volts = Volts
   
  From JDS Lab’s official C5 blog post:
  3.337 VRMS @ 150 Ω
  4.146 VRMS @ 600 Ω
  14.0 Vpp (peak-to-peak voltage)
   
  Therefore, from Equation (4):
  Voltage_RMS = 14.0 Volts peak-to-peak * log(2) = 4.214 Volts [this is basically the maximum voltage the C5 can output without clipping the source’s signal]
  RMS (root mean square) is basically an average value
   
  From Equation (3):
  P = ((3.337 Volts_RMS)^2) / 150 Ω = 0.07424 Watts, or *74.24 milliWatts @ 150 **Ω*
  P = ((4.146 Volts_RMS)^2) / 600 Ω = 0.02865 Watts, or *28.65 milliWatts @ 600 **Ω*
   
   
  Extrapolating values assuming the behavior is linear (straight-line approximation):
  Slope = Rise / Run
  Slope = ΔPower / ΔImpedance
  Slope = (P2 - P1) / (600 Ω - 150 Ω) = (28.65 milliWatts - 74.24 milliWatts) / (600 Ω - 150 Ω)
  Slope = -0.1013 milliWatts/Ω
   
  Using the slope value, the power supplied to headphones of other impedances can be extrapolated (again, assuming linear behavior):
  Slope = Slope
   
  -0.1013 milliWatts/Ω = (74.24 milliWatts - X) / (150 Ω - 32 Ω)
  X = 0.1013 milliWatts/Ω * (150 Ω - 32 Ω) + 74.24 milliWatts = *86.19 milliWatts @ 32 **Ω*
   
  -0.1013 milliWatts/Ω = (74.24 milliWatts - X) / (150 Ω - 16 Ω)
  X = 0.1013 milliWatts/Ω * (150 Ω - 16 Ω) + 74.24 milliWatts = *87.81 milliWatts @ 16 **Ω*
* *
  -0.1013 milliWatts/Ω = (74.24 milliWatts - X) / (150 Ω - 300 Ω)
  X = 0.1013 milliWatts/Ω * (150 Ω - 300 Ω) + 74.24 milliWatts = *59.05 milliWatts @ 300 **Ω*
* *
  -0.1013 milliWatts/Ω = (74.24 milliWatts - X) / (150 Ω - 50 Ω)
  X = 0.1013 milliWatts/Ω * (150 Ω - 50 Ω) + 74.24 milliWatts = *84.37 milliWatts @ 50 **Ω*
* *
  -0.1013 milliWatts/Ω = (74.24 milliWatts - X) / (150 Ω - 62 Ω)
  X = 0.1013 milliWatts/Ω * (150 Ω - 62 Ω) + 74.24 milliWatts = *83.15 milliWatts @ 62 **Ω*
   
   
  A linear plot of all of these values:

   
   
  If any of my calculations are wrong, please let me know. 


   


Spoiler: Off%20topic%20about%20power



I did some more digging behind the whole power "requirements" for headphones:
   
  Quote: 





joe bloggs said:


> Headphones with high impedance requires amp with high voltage swing to drive loud enough. But required output power is inversely proportional to impedance at the same voltage.


 
   
  Quote: 





joe bloggs said:


> The clearest picture of how easy or hard a phone would be to drive would be a plot of dB/mW efficiency against frequency but I have never seen such a graph presented. You would have to infer it from the dB/mW at 1kHz, frequency response and impedance response charts and calculate the result yourself. But if you're not EQing, the lowest impedance frequencies will always be the hardest to drive and the highest impedan frequencies the easiest.
> 
> For phones with overall high impedance, there will be few amps that drive them to volume but almost all such amps will be able to drive them to their "full potential". OTOH for low impedance but low efficiency phones, almost all amps will drive them loud enough but many may distort.


 
   
  Quote: 





akiroz said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Joe Bloggs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## customNuts

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> The C5 works well for the K 701 for the most part.
> 
> I was doing some testing between the C5 and O2 again and the C5 seems to be a tad bit brighter than the O2. So in terms of synergy, the O2 might be a better choice for the K 701, but it doesn't sound all that bad. I'm not too familiar with synergy with the K 701, but they do sound good with the C5.
> 
> ...


 
  Thx for the impressions. I wouldn't doubt that the 02 would be the better performing amp for the k701 but the bass -or lack there of- worries me. So with the bass boost on the c5 surely that would end up being the more 'full/musical' presentation??


----------



## audionewbi

How is the dynamics and micro details on C5? Any one who owns the ex1000 can they comment on the synergy? Cheers


----------



## ostewart

Been using the amp for a few hours now, it seems very good so far, but even on the lowest volume with my CIEM's it is a tad too loud, only a little though. Yes the mids do sound a little forward, but it has full bodied bass and detailed highs, very close to the sound of the O2. The bass boost is perfect for when you want some extra lows, and doesn't muddy up the sound.
Micro details are good and heard easily, and the sound is dynamic, I would actually say it sounds a bit fuller than O2, but I dont have my O2 next to me to compare.


----------



## putente

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> Been using the amp for a few hours now, it seems very good so far, but even on the lowest volume with my CIEM's it is a tad too loud, only a little though. Yes the mids do sound a little forward, but it has full bodied bass and detailed highs, very close to the sound of the O2. The bass boost is perfect for when you want some extra lows, and doesn't muddy up the sound.
> Micro details are good and heard easily, and the sound is dynamic, I would actually say it sounds a bit fuller than O2, but I dont have my O2 next to me to compare.


 
   
   
  Which opamp version is your C5?


----------



## ostewart

Standard 2227, definitely more neutral and detailed than C421 AD8620


----------



## putente

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> Standard 2227, definitely more neutral and detailed than C421 AD8620


 
   
   
  Strange... From what I've read since the c421 was released  I was under the impression the AD8620 was the more detailed and neutral opamp option. Maybe that has something to do with the C5 circuit being different than the c421...


----------



## ostewart

Yes probably has to do with circuit.
I will be doing a comparison, at the moment I'm on a school trip for 3 days in the Algarve with only the C5


----------



## akash neagi

anyone with a audio quality comparison of c5 and e12?????


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *miceblue* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> From JDS Lab’s official C5 blog post:
> 3.337 VRMS @ 150 Ω = 74.24 milliWatts
> ...


 
   
  Those calculations are not quite right. First, 14.0 Vp-p is actually 4.95 Vrms, because 1 Vrms = 2 * sqrt(2) = 2.8284 Vp-p. Second, the method of linearly extrapolating power is wrong, because power is inversely proportional to the impedance with constant voltage. With your formula, the power output into loads above ~900 Ω would be negative, and into a near-infinite impedance open circuit, an extreme negative value. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now the difficult part is modeling how the maximum output voltage drops with decreasing load impedance. A simple model is shown below that assumes a linear open loop output impedance, and a hard peak current limit of 45 mA taken from the datasheet of the OPA2227. Using the following Python script to perform all the calculations:

```
#!/usr/bin/python import math vUnld = 14.0 * math.sqrt(0.125) # unloaded voltage v150 = 3.337                    # voltage into 150 ohms v600 = 4.146                    # voltage into 600 ohms iSC = 0.045 * math.sqrt(0.5)    # short circuit current of OPA2227 in Arms rOut = ((vUnld / v150) - 1.0) * 150.0   # total open loop output impedance rOut = (v600 - v150) / ((v150 / 150.0) - (v600 / 600.0)) vUnld = v600 * ((600.0 + rOut) / 600.0) def calcPower(r):   global vUnld, iSC, rOut   v = vUnld * r / (r + rOut)   i = v / r   if i > iSC:     i = iSC     v = i * r   p = v * v / r   print "%3.0f ohms: V = %.3f Vrms, Ipeak = %.1f mA, P = %.1f mW"        \         % (r, v, i * math.sqrt(2.0) * 1000.0, p * 1000.0) for r in [16.0, 32.0, 50.0, 62.0, 150.0, 300.0, 600.0]:   calcPower(r)
```
  I get these results:

```
16 ohms: V = 0.509 Vrms, Ipeak = 45.0 mA, P = 16.2 mW  32 ohms: V = 1.018 Vrms, Ipeak = 45.0 mA, P = 32.4 mW  50 ohms: V = 1.591 Vrms, Ipeak = 45.0 mA, P = 50.6 mW  62 ohms: V = 1.973 Vrms, Ipeak = 45.0 mA, P = 62.8 mW 150 ohms: V = 3.337 Vrms, Ipeak = 31.5 mA, P = 74.2 mW 300 ohms: V = 3.836 Vrms, Ipeak = 18.1 mA, P = 49.0 mW 600 ohms: V = 4.146 Vrms, Ipeak = 9.8 mA, P = 28.6 mW
```
  Of course, due to the simplicity of the model, the numbers above are still not very reliable. Also, the maximum power into low impedances depends largely on the actual (rather than specified) short circuit current.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  And this is why I leave the math to the people who actually know what they're doing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Thank you for explaining that, but I'm not quite sure what the rOut equation is doing. Also, why did you define rOut and vUnld, and then re-defined them later in the scrypt?


----------



## jonny564

Looking at picking one of these up, Anyone have any problems with the volume controls? Never used a portable amp but it looks like the volume control has a chance of rubbing up against something and getting cranked up to deafening levels(say if i had it loose in a backpack). Is there any type of hold feature or is this a non-issue


----------



## ostewart

It really isn't likely to move when in a backpack, I wouldn't worry about it, I prefer it to the analogue one of the C421


----------



## bwaterme

Quote: 





jonny564 said:


> Looking at picking one of these up, Anyone have any problems with the volume controls? Never used a portable amp but it looks like the volume control has a chance of rubbing up against something and getting cranked up to deafening levels(say if i had it loose in a backpack). Is there any type of hold feature or is this a non-issue


 
  Agree with randomkid.  I've only had it for a week.  Wrapping up my 4 flight travel week and haven't had a single instance of an incidental volume change.  I put it in my slacks pocket, my snugger jean pockets, shirt pocket, and laptop bag.  All good!


----------



## stv014

Quote:  





> Also, why did you define rOut and vUnld, and then re-defined them later in the scrypt?


 
   
  Because it can be calculated in two different ways from the available data, and the results do not agree (that is not necessarily a problem with the specs, because the total open loop output impedance - which also includes internal components of the op amp, the power supply, and the virtual ground, if there is one - is likely non-linear). The first method uses the known unloaded output voltage, and one of the voltages with a load, by solving the equation

```
v150 = vUnld * 150 / (150 + rOut)
```
  for rOut. This way, the output voltage calculated for the 600 Ω load would be slightly higher than the specified value. Alternatively, the two loaded voltages can be used, and solving these equations

```
v150 = vUnld * 150 / (150 + rOut) v600 = vUnld * 600 / (600 + rOut)
```
  for vUnld and rOut gives parameters with which the results are correct for both the 150 and 600 Ω loads, but this time the maximum unloaded voltage does not agree with the specifications (it is 12.8 Vpp instead of 14). The formula for rOut actually simply divides the voltage difference by the current difference. Initially, I chose the first approach, but then added lines 11 and 12 to modify the script to use the second one. With those lines removed, the results are:

```
16 ohms: V = 0.509 Vrms, Ipeak = 45.0 mA, P = 16.2 mW  32 ohms: V = 1.018 Vrms, Ipeak = 45.0 mA, P = 32.4 mW  50 ohms: V = 1.591 Vrms, Ipeak = 45.0 mA, P = 50.6 mW  62 ohms: V = 1.973 Vrms, Ipeak = 45.0 mA, P = 62.8 mW 150 ohms: V = 3.337 Vrms, Ipeak = 31.5 mA, P = 74.2 mW 300 ohms: V = 3.986 Vrms, Ipeak = 18.8 mA, P = 53.0 mW 600 ohms: V = 4.416 Vrms, Ipeak = 10.4 mA, P = 32.5 mW
```
  The difference is not major, but with all the low impedance loads, the maximum power is determined by the (not necessarily correct) current limit.
  Ultimately, it is only possible to get reliable and accurate values by actually measuring the amplifier with the various loads, especially in the case of the lower impedance ones.


----------



## rckyosho

Guys all these maths and calculations is giving me a headache 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
   
  Remember guys amplifiers are rated using a sine wave signal.
  Because amplifiers are rated this way, their peak power output will be twice the RMS rating.
  Most amplifiers cannot sustain output at their peak capability for too long (and the
  characteristic of most music signals is such that this is not necessary anyway).
   
  As you are probably aware, audio amplifiers put out a voltage (to phones) that is constantly changing. A music signal can be called AC (alternating current), but it is not the same as a sine wave(unless you happen to be playing test tones through your system...but who listen to tones right),and it is not DC... however a sine wave is more representative of a music signal than DC is. So, the standard practice in use today is for manufacturers to rate amplifiers in "watts RMS". Be aware that watts are watts, there is technically no such thing as watts RMS.
   
  To make matters more complicated these ratings are taken using a resistive load which phones or speakers are reactance in nature meaning you also have inductance and capacitance to account for.
   
  So my point is as long as the amp can drive your phones with minimal distortion and clipping than
  lets just leave the numbers in the spec sheets and get back to your normal disscussion on the C5.
   
  PS: You guys can open another thread to discuss the theories/formulas/methodlogy on amp power ratings 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





jonny564 said:


> Looking at picking one of these up, Anyone have any problems with the volume controls? Never used a portable amp but it looks like the volume control has a chance of rubbing up against something and getting cranked up to deafening levels(say if i had it loose in a backpack). Is there any type of hold feature or is this a non-issue


 
  I haven't had any problems with the volume control getting too loud. On the contrary though, I often listen at "volume 1", so sometimes I accidentally press volume down and I don't hear anything.
   
  The volume control is almost flush with the metal surface, so the chances of accidentally moving it are pretty slim, and even more so when you have the source/headphone jacks sticking out. The volume level takes 3.5 seconds to go from 0 volume to max, so there shouldn't be a problem about it reaching deafening levels. There's no hold feature.


----------



## miceblue

Um...well then, a real-world test for the battery life. It literally just died for me on the bus right now and I've been timing the battery life with my iPhone.



Testing specs:
iPhone 4S (playing Ottmar Liebert's "Up Close" album at 256 kbps V0 LAME MP3) -> FiiO L3 -> C5 (high gain, volume step 4, no bass boost) -> V-MODA Crossfade M-100

This wasn't a straight-on 11-hour listening session, but I turned on/off the iPhone's timer whenever I turned on/off the C5. It's not quite the 14-hour claimed battery life with this test, but still ample for my purposes. I did this test over a course of 2 days with plenty of opportunities to charge the C5 if I wanted to.

The flashing green LED indicating 20 minutes of remaining battery life was pretty accurate though because the bus arrived at my stop at around 20:48 and the LED was flashing at the end of the last listening session (the battery later died at 21:05).


----------



## ostewart

Plus you used high gain, that might make a difference. With IEMs on volume 1, low gain, it might last longer. Volume one if sufficiently loud for my CIEM


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> Plus you used high gain, that might make a difference. With IEMs on volume 1, low gain, it might last longer. Volume one if sufficiently loud for my CIEM


 
  Does a higher gain suck-up more battery life?
  I figured volume level was probably the biggest factor, and if the volume level is the same regardless of the gain, then the battery drains at the same rate.
   
  In any case, the higher gain on volume step 4 of 63 should be plenty of volume for louder music instead of the quiet music I was playing (which I found to be the bare minimum volume to use while riding in a noisy public bus with the fairly sensitive V-MODA M-100's).


----------



## akash neagi

anyone tried them with the MDR-1R, SRH840 or XBA3?????


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





akash neagi said:


> anyone tried them with the MDR-1R, SRH840 or XBA3?????


 
  I don't have a SRH840, but I have the SRH940 and it sounds pretty good with the C5 to me. The bass boost also does wonders for that headphone.


----------



## akash neagi

miceblue said:


> I don't have a SRH840, but I have the SRH940 and it sounds pretty good with the C5 to me. The bass boost also does wonders for that headphone.




Thanks.....


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Um...well then, a real-world test for the battery life. It literally just died for me on the bus right now and I've been timing the battery life with my iPhone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Run-time depends on the source signal level, headphone impedance, and output listening level.
   
  I observed 14+ hours during actual listening at high gain from an iPod Nano, driving 250 ohm Beyerdynamic DT-880's (also measured by iPhone's stopwatch, by the way). Your M-100's and listening style consume more power. Some people will see more than 14 hours; some will see less.


----------



## ostewart

Thanks for that John.

I'm really enjoying mine, thank you.


----------



## Apo0th3karY

Wait so DT880 250ohm consumes less power than the M-100?
I obviously have a lot to learn about amping


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





apo0th3kary said:


> Wait so DT880 250ohm consumes less power than the M-100?


 
   
  It consumes less current, and batteries are drained by current draw.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I did not know that. I am still a trainee when it comes to amps and how they work, but that seems to make sense.
  Today I'm trying a "no load" test of the C5's battery; so I'm just timing to see how long the battery lasts with it turned on, not connected to anything.


----------



## luisdent

I'm about to go get mine from the mailbox!!!! woooO! i'll post thoughts and photos soon.


----------



## luisdent

o.k. o.k. i have the amp, but I have a few questions.  Maybe john can chime in?
   
  First, it is very very cold.  It must have been in a cold shipping truck, but the amp has condensation on it that I can wipe off from it being so cold.  Should i wait to charge it and turn it on?  I wouldn't want to short anything out if that's possible...
   
  Second, it is SO much smaller than I expected.  Maybe most people are used to portable amps, but I just thought it was going to be about another half in inch in all directions bigger.  That's awesome!  Small is good.
   
  I'll snap some shots soon.  The image on the amp looks awesome, although as john mentioned is is a bit light.  I like the image on the light background, but if you're not looking at the image the light color looks a bit odd with the faceplate in my opinion.  It almost looks like it was painted white or something.  Hmmmmm.  Either way it looks like a nice little amp.  Can't wait to hear it.  I'll hold off until someone chimes in on the condensation...


----------



## luisdent

A few shots of my amp.  Love the graphic, but it looks a bit like someone painted it white.  In person it looks more whitish and like paint.  It almost doesn't look like metal... In fact, I think it will start to look dirty very soon because of the color.  He nailed the size and placement of the image though like i wanted.


----------



## luisdent

All right.  I'm listening now.  I'm using the er-4s and I have a few initial observations.  First, the amp noticeably improves my ipod touch 5th generation's level of depth.  You can hear into the instruments and the sound stage a little better.  Nothing mind blowing, but as an audiophile that extra amount is awesome.  Otherwise, the frequencies sound pretty similar (the ipod touch 5g is pretty flat)  However, there is a slight super high treble rolloff on the touch 5g that always bothered me and finally has been measured for proof. ha.  The amp eliminates that with the line-out.
   
  For the bass.  Good and bad.
   
  I'm using the er-4s and I strive for neutral flat sound.  With a good seal with the er-4s I find the bass a little light.  However, with the bass boost switch on the c5 i find the bass too heavy.  Ironically, by about two times.  As we talked about earlier a 3db boost option would make the er-4s perfectly, amazingly flat while showing off it's bass quality.  The c5 makes it a bass monster surprisingly.  So I probably won't use it much as it is.
   
  The good news, if you do use it, I find that the frequency selection is perfect.  It does an excellent job of giving you bumpin' bass without muddying up frequencies otherwise.  It sounds very transparent on the er-4s, albeit too loud bass-wise.  On the hd600 it is also very transparent.  The boost is a little more noticeable in thickness, but still leaves all the details and mids in tact very well.  The hd600 are insane with the boost on though.  Bassheads will love it.  It makes them far from neutral though.  They make every song a hip hop dream. haha
   
  The volume control is perfect.  It gets very quiet with the er-4s and steps up very smoothly so I always feel like i can get the setting I want, however it isn't so smooth it takes too long to adjust.  In fact, the ramping up in volume when you hold the toggle is perfect in my opinion.  Excellent job John.  Everything feel solid enough.  The switches are nice and close to the surface so they aren't likely to get hit accidentally.  They even require a good amount (not too much) of force to switch so that should help too.
   
  Overall it feels like a great little amp and sounds great.  Highly recommend it for any ipod.  It is definitely at least a slight improvement in sound quality.  ipods are pretty good and i think you start to hit the law of diminishing returns soon thereafter, however there should be a noticeable improvement for those who are into this sort of thing.  I can't comment on other amps as I haven't heard any, but I'm happy with the sound so far... 
   
  UPDATE!!!
  The bass isn't as loud on the er-4s as i first thought.  Upon more extended listening tests it is actually a very nice amount, but still more than neutral, which is what I'm aiming for. The boost sounds good overall, but on songs that are already bass heavy it pushes that low sub bass just over the ideal level.  So while, this is the case, I suppose this is probably actually a very good "general purpose" level John chose to implement.  I think most people wouldn't think it was too much for something like the er-4s, but it's just a little heavy footed in that sub region for me....


----------



## audionewbi

Thanks, how would this compare against something like arrow 4G?


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> Thanks, how would this compare against something like arrow 4G?


 
   
  If you mean me, I haven't heard the arrow amp.  I did research it a lot though before getting this.  If I didn't get this I would have got that. ha.  Primarily for the bass options, size, etc.  But for the price I think the c5 is the best from what I've researched, plus it's just a personal thing, but i like the company and it's attitude..


----------



## luisdent

For the record, if you have a 5th gen ipod and a short "cable" style adapter... Don't buy the angled line out cable. :-o haha... ooops...


----------



## luisdent

Sorry to flood the thread with meeee. haha, but...
   
  I'm listening to the Sennheiser hd600 now and this is more than capable of driving them well.  On the lowest gain setting I picked a very quiet soundtrack song and maxed the volume.  While I could hit the max the song was more than loud enough, in fact it was higher than i think anyone would ever listen to it at.  I would be worried that any dynamic instruments would be way too loud if they came in all the sudden.  But you still have the high gain mode and that bumps it up a good amount further as well.  So hd600=yes indeedy doo.
   
  The quality of the gain settings sounds identical to my ears with a brief comparison.  No noise on either, period.  Very nice.  With either pair i've tested.  Based solely on my ears, I'd say this could probably power a 400 ohm headphone well maybe higher with the gain setting on high.  beyond that i think you'd start running the amp near it's max volume, which i assume would be the least optimal sound quality (increased distortion, etc.) but that's just a guess...  In any case, 300-ohm hd600 is no problem at all.  With most current music both phones will blow your ears off on low gain mode if you want them too.  On quiet high quality classical, etc. the hd600 will probably want to be in high gain mode, but will be great.  beyone 300ohm, i'm not sure.  i know people here have some trigonometric-algebraic-beer-induced-calculations that can probably tell you exactly what power will do for which impedance, but i'll leave that to them. 
   
  Speaking of math... can anyone tell me if it's safe to use my duet into my c5?  if so, how loud should i put the volume output on the duet?


----------



## thor777

Received my C5  I unscrewed the case and flipped it around so that the LDS logo will be visible from the bottom . I also used some blue painter's tape before putting on the Velcro as this setup will be temporary until I get some 3M low profile clear dual lock. I'll post impressions after I get some time with it.


----------



## rckyosho

Quote: 





thor777 said:


> Received my C5
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Congrats and welcome to the "Red C5" family!
   
  Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Sorry to flood the thread with meeee. haha, but...
> 
> I'm listening to the Sennheiser hd600 now and this is more than capable of driving them well.  On the lowest gain setting I picked a very quiet soundtrack song and maxed the volume.  While I could hit the max the song was more than loud enough, in fact it was higher than i think anyone would ever listen to it at.  I would be worried that any dynamic instruments would be way too loud if they came in all the sudden.  But you still have the high gain mode and that bumps it up a good amount further as well.  So hd600=yes indeedy doo.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Finally a differrent color from the rest of us here!
  And it's white!!(Alarm bell ringing!! Apple fanboy alert!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
   
  Good impressions there with the er-4s and hd600.Awaiting an impression with the 
  ear muffs that's on your avatar 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  Anyway congrats luisdent!
  Don't have the Duet but I have the Native Instrument Audio Kontrol 1(AK1) which is similar so using any line level source to the C5 shouldn't be an issue(in fact recommended). And if your reffering to using it with the Apogee duet from the headphone out to the C5 than it shouldn't be a problem.Volume level of 75% or more is recommended to give the best SQ from it.
   
  Enjoy!


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> A few shots of my amp.  Love the graphic, but it looks a bit like someone painted it white.  In person it looks more whitish and like paint.  It almost doesn't look like metal... In fact, I think it will start to look dirty very soon because of the color.  He nailed the size and placement of the image though like i wanted.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Photos


 
  That's actually a pretty clean-looking colour scheme. It looks like a pearl white colour from the photos, which I wouldn't mind having in my arsenal of electronics, to be honest.
   
  Does anyone else mind doing a battery test? I tried to time the battery life without any load (if it matters, bass boost was on, low gain, volume step 10 of 63).

   
  I got a shorter battery life without anything connected to it. Strange.


----------



## goodvibes

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> I did not know that. I am still a trainee when it comes to amps and how they work, but that seems to make sense.
> Today I'm trying a "no load" test of the C5's battery; so I'm just timing to see how long the battery lasts with it turned on, not connected to anything.


 
  There's also effeciency in the equation and the beyers are 7db less so it shouldn't be that diiferent overall.


----------



## Bill-P

Actually, I'd think that at higher listening volumes, that 7dB difference would make quite a huge difference.
   
  After the first 10dB increment over stock sensitivity, the next 10dB requires 10 times the power... and then the following 10dB would require another 10 times.
   
  But I don't think the Beyers require that much power for an enjoyable experience. Very few modern headphones require a +30dB volume boost to sound good, and most just need about +10dB IMO. In that case, I'd agree with you that 7dB wouldn't be that big a deal. It's already loud enough.


----------



## rckyosho

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Does anyone else mind doing a battery test?


 
  Trying out the battery test now with my modded C5 and S3. Will update once I have results.
   
   
   
  Update:
   
  I have found a problem with my mod. When I'm trying to use the C5 as an amp only and I feed it line level input(2Volts) I get noticeable distortion when playing music.Did not notice it cause previously just tried it out with my S3 jack out and my DAP and it sounds clean at my usual listening level (low gain,around 8~10 volume).Did a test with another external DAC with volume control and with my voltmeter measuring and sure enough feeding it more than 0.9 volts causes it to distort.Doh! I was actually feeding the C5 2 inputs, one that's soldered on(although not powered) and another with the C5 jack input causing the distortion.
   
  Solution:
   
  Wanted to use a switch as a first solution but couldn't find one small enough to fit the case and that can be easily mounted on one of the faceplate. So I remove all the soldered wiring from the C5 input and UD-100 output.Soldered a 1/8 inch jack wires to the UD-100 output and feed the C5 input using the 1/8  jack(below photos should make it clear what I'm babbling about
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).So I'm a happier man now with this improved mod and bye bye distortion!!!


----------



## namizich

Quote: 





rckyosho said:


> Trying out the battery test now with my modded C5 and S3. Will update once I have results.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hello! I am the Industrial Designer over here at JDS Labs. We love the ingenuity in this mod you did so I machined up a special end panel, I believe John shipped it yesterday. Hope you enjoy!


----------



## mrbigsby

Now THATS a *cool company!*


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





namizich said:


> Hello! I am the Industrial Designer over here at JDS Labs. We love the ingenuity in this mod you did so I machined up a special end panel, I believe John shipped it yesterday. Hope you enjoy!


 
   
  These guys are incredible.  They really go above and beyond.  I've seen something similar to this before from them.  Very awesome!  I want to see the finished pics!


----------



## putente

Quote: 





namizich said:


> Hello! I am the Industrial Designer over here at JDS Labs. We love the ingenuity in this mod you did so I machined up a special end panel, I believe John shipped it yesterday. Hope you enjoy!


 
   
   
  This (and other things too) is the kind of thing that's a perfect example of what that makes JDS so special and sets them apart from other amp manufacturers. They're really that close to their customers... Keep up the great work guys!


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





namizich said:


> Hello! I am the Industrial Designer over here at JDS Labs. We love the ingenuity in this mod you did so I machined up a special end panel, I believe John shipped it yesterday. Hope you enjoy!


 
  Wow, that's just plain awesome customer service! *rckyosho* really did a fantastic job with the mod though. Very ingenious indeed.
   
  I should be receiving a pocket AVR programmer in the mail next week and I can't wait to tweak around with the C5's Arduino code!


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> I did not know that. I am still a trainee when it comes to amps and how they work, but that seems to make sense.
> Today I'm trying a "no load" test of the C5's battery; so I'm just timing to see how long the battery lasts with it turned on, not connected to anything.


 
   
  I have checked the InnerFidelity measurements of both headphones, and in fact it looks like the efficiency of the DT880 is so poor compared to the M100 (more than 10 dB worse) that it consumes more current despite having 7 times higher impedance. So, only a reasonably efficient high impedance headphone like the T70 would actually save battery life compared to the M100. But at not very high volume the current drawn by the headphones might not be the most important factor determining battery life, as the DT880 at 90 dB average SPL still needs less than 2.5 mA (RMS) total for two channels.
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *stv014* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> but this time the maximum unloaded voltage does not agree with the specifications (it is 12.8 Vpp instead of 14)


 
   
  I had a look at the specifications now, and it is apparently the power supply voltage that is 14 Vp-p, rather than the output voltage, that makes more sense.


----------



## aoiziptw

I have received my C5 this morning, and below is my initial impression for the first 5 hours.
   
  - bass boost is good / bad at the same time, just like other member said earlier the +8 is a little bit too much, maybe a selectable of +3 / +7 will be perfect for none bass head, but if you are a bass you will love this +8 boost, as the sub bass does not overpower too much and mud the mid/treb too much. but i think a +3 will be perfect for me for sure.
   
  - sound stage is a bit bigger then my E9 at the work
   
  - i think the mid is more forward, as the vocal feels closer.
   
  - a bit neutral, not much coloring on this amp.
   
  - C5 is tiny, as i was expecting something a bit bigger then my ODAC, but it turns out they are about the same size!!!
   
  - at max volume( low gain) i can hear the hissing from my UM3x without music playing, but i figure at that level you gonna get your ear bleeding and blown first. at my normal listening level i do not hear anything.
   
  overall, it is a nice little product i would recommend to friends.
   

  ODAC on the left, C5 on the right.
   
  song i used for testing
  "Extra Terrestrial Biological entitles" by Egoist
  "Clock Strikes" by One Ok Rock
  "Avalon no oukan" by Nana Mizuki
  "Reversi" by Uverworld
   
   
  now can someone recommend me a good short 3.5 to 3.5 that is less then $100?
   
  ~Ming


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





aoiziptw said:


> I have received my C5 this morning, and below is my initial impression for the first 5 hours.
> 
> - bass boost is good / bad at the same time, just like other member said earlier the +8 is a little bit too much, maybe a selectable of +3 / +7 will be perfect for none bass head, but if you are a bass you will love this +8 boost, as the sub bass does not overpower too much and mud the mid/treb too much. but i think a +3 will be perfect for me for sure.
> 
> ...


 
  FiiO L2 or FiiO L8. Both are less than $10 USD. 
  The slate colour looks pretty nice too. It's darker than I imagined it to be.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





aoiziptw said:


> I have received my C5 this morning, and below is my initial impression for the first 5 hours.
> 
> - bass boost is good / bad at the same time, just like other member said earlier the +8 is a little bit too much, maybe a selectable of +3 / +7 will be perfect for none bass head, but if you are a bass you will love this +8 boost, as the sub bass does not overpower too much and mud the mid/treb too much. but i think a +3 will be perfect for me for sure.
> 
> ...


 
   
  It may be a bit long, but this is what I was using today:
   
  http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/203780073?productId=203780073&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_sku=203780073&ci_kw=%7bkeyword%7d&kwd=%7bkeyword%7d&cm_mmc=shopping%2d%5f%2dgoogleads%2d%5f%2dpla%2d%5f%2d203780073&ci_gpa=pla#.UTp6i45Qra4
   
  I am usually not a monster fan, as they are overpriced in my opinion, but this cable isn't too bad, and it's very good quality construction and flexible.  They might have a shorter one, dunno...


----------



## luisdent

Just to show you guys this finish more, you can see it is wearing already!  But that's o.k.  John warned me it was not right before I received it and said he'd replace it with a new one anyway.  But I literally have barely touched this thing and the finish is wearing off.  I had it sitting on my desk last night and then put it in a small tupperware container i keep my audio cables in.  It was even wrapped inside my ipod's microfiber cloth.  Took it out and used it on the desk tonight and there's already bad wearing of the finish.  I haven't sat anything on it either.  As you saw before I keep the ipod to the side.
   
  The wear sort of let's you see what I meant by "it looks like paint".  In real life it is more "paint-ish" looking then the photos.  Otherwise, it is a pretty cool color... Oh well.  Can't wait for the "correct" one.


----------



## rckyosho

Quote: 





namizich said:


> Hello! I am the Industrial Designer over here at JDS Labs. We love the ingenuity in this mod you did so I machined up a special end panel, I believe John shipped it yesterday. Hope you enjoy!


 
   
  Wow! What a suprise!!! Didn't expect that!
  Can't wait for the faceplate to arrived.
  Thank you namizich for that and the cool response from 
  JDSlabs design team and all.That certainly made my day!


----------



## Gradyoactive

Has anybody tried the C5 with Denon D2000's?  I'm thinking the slightly forward mids of the C5 would go well with the slightly recessed mids of the D2000.  If you have tried this combo, how does it sound to you?


----------



## miceblue

It's weird, even though the O2 subjectively sounds a little better to me, for desktop purposes, I seem to be using the C5 more often. Maybe the more up-front mids and easy-to-access bass boost toggle are why I'm gravitating towards the C5 for most of my listening sessions.


----------



## luisdent

Not to sound contradictory, but I have to say that I don't hear any "upfront mids" as others hear.  I hear a very neutral presentation all around.  Perhaps switching from an amp that has less "neutral" mids makes the c5 sound more mid present?  Just a thought.  I've compared it to a bunch of devices and hi-fi amps and it sounds just a neutral to me personally with a bunch of headphones I've tried...


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Not to sound contradictory, but I have to say that I don't hear any "upfront mids" as others hear.  I hear a very neutral presentation all around.  Perhaps switching from an amp that has less "neutral" mids makes the c5 sound more mid present?  Just a thought.  I've compared it to a bunch of devices and hi-fi amps and it sounds just a neutral to me personally with a bunch of headphones I've tried...


 
  It's not a huge difference, it's very subtle, and I definitely don't consider it a mid-centric amplifier. It might be due to the C5's more closed-in-sounding soundstage, but overall it's still pretty neutral compared to the O2.


----------



## luisdent

miceblue said:


> It's not a huge difference, it's very subtle, and I definitely don't consider it a mid-centric amplifier. It might be due to the C5's more closed-in-sounding soundstage, but overall it's still pretty neutral compared to the O2.




I can see that I suppose...


----------



## luisdent

miceblue said:


> It's not a huge difference, it's very subtle, and I definitely don't consider it a mid-centric amplifier. It might be due to the C5's more closed-in-sounding soundstage, but overall it's still pretty neutral compared to the O2.




I can see that I suppose...


----------



## rckyosho

Ok, have just finish my battery test.

Test config:

S3->UD-100->C5->M-100 with volume set between 6 to 11 steps with low gain and no bass boost.

Result:


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





rckyosho said:


> Ok, have just finish my battery test.
> 
> Test config:
> 
> ...


 
   
how are you guys getting direct screen images like this?
   
  Never mind, I found it with a 5 second google search. haha.  wow.  i didn't realize you could do that.  so awesome.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





rckyosho said:


> Ok, have just finish my battery test.
> 
> Test config:
> 
> ...


 
  Hm that's nearly 2 hours more than mine. Ah well, I don't mind. Thanks for doing the test though!


----------



## audionewbi

I'll post mine once I get it, hopefully it is sometimes this week. Guys if you can please post the *best synergy/pairing you guys have achieved with C5*, thanks.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> I'll post mine once I get it, hopefully it is sometimes this week. Guys if you can please post the *best synergy/pairing you guys have achieved with C5*, thanks.


 
  In terms of synergy, strictly speaking, I don't think the C5 is the best choice for the M-100 nor the [new] K 701, but if I had to choose one of the two, the C5 has better synergy with the M-100.
   
  But synergy isn't the reason why I bought the C5, so I'm perfectly fine with that. I was looking for a portable reference amp, and I'm pretty sure the C5 is that considering the little colouration it has next to the O2 to me.


----------



## audionewbi

I am glad it is not a coloured amp, ever more anxious on its delivery, thanks for your input.


----------



## BB 808

Here's my Black C5...


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





bb 808 said:


> Here's my Black C5...


 
  That looks pretty nice. It reminds me of the Headstage Arrow amp with the all-black enclosure.


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> That looks pretty nice. It reminds me of the Headstage Arrow amp with the all-black enclosure.


 
  arrow is much thinner.


----------



## illusioned

nice matte black one you've got there


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yes yes I know that. The Arrow is probably the thinnest headphone amplifier I've seen. I was just talking about the all-black colour scheme.


----------



## rckyosho

Quote: 





bb 808 said:


> Here's my Black C5...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Cool! that will match nicely with the ODAC if you happen to have one.
   
    
   
  Quote:


miceblue said:


> Hm that's nearly 2 hours more than mine. Ah well, I don't mind. Thanks for doing the test though!


 
  Your welcome, though it's because of you that I've been digging about the C5 battery a little more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			










   
  Apparently the battery in the C5 is made by a company called Cameron Sino and it's actually an ipod 4th gen 
  compatible replacement battery(model no. CS-IPOD4HL...doh!).There's actually some benchmark done(*here*) when this guy was upgrading his battery(*link*) of his Gigabeat F player.It's not widely available it seems but you can still find one in *amazon* or a pricier one at *BraunOni's battery upgrade.com*.I also found a compatible one at *ebay*, so no worries at finding a replacement if you ever needed one.Cameron Sino actually makes good compatible batteries from the reviews I've read(*here* and *here*).
   
  But,but,but that's not the reason why I'm posting, although good info to have! I've actually done something special for you miceblue! and it's very doable!
   

   
  Ok here it comes! Battery improvement mod!
  Let the pics take over then!
   
   

  the original C5 batt and the adhesive used is easily removable.
   

  yes! that's an S3 2100mah battery temporarily connected with just a sticky tape(batt side)/connector pins(C5 side) and mounted with a small foam double-sided tape on the board.(See LED it's green!)
   

  Very easily slides back in to the C5 case!
   

  Enjoying my temporary mod with my old DAP the cowon D2 after all that work.
   
  So there you go miceblue...longer battery life if you ever feel that the current one is still lacking!
   
  Note:To make the mod permanent you have to solder or glue(not recommended) wires to the S3 battery and use a similar connector or small female pins(removable and shrinkwrap to prevent shortages) to connect to the C5,and  you can search on ebay for cheaper compatible s3 battery options.
   
*Warning Update :This mod won't charge the S3 or any other battery that is not using the CSIPOD4HL battery Circuitry cause the the C5 can not detect the temperature properly.*
*Solution: Remove the S3 battrey circuit and solder the CSIPOD4HL battery circuit onto the S3 battery(Do this at your own risk)*


----------



## audionewbi

I think for an average listener 4-8 hours of battery is more than enough however larger capacity batteries means longer life due to requiring less charge. I am sure if we search ebay we should find the right one with the right connectors. I have seen that battery used on number of devices.


----------



## rckyosho

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> I think for an average listener 4-8 hours of battery is more than enough however larger capacity batteries means longer life due to requiring less charge. I am sure if we search ebay we should find the right one with the right connectors. I have seen that battery used on number of devices.


 
  Been there...done that.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> I think for an average listener 4-8 hours of battery is more than enough however larger capacity batteries means longer life due to requiring less charge. I am sure if we search ebay we should find the right one with the right connectors. I have seen that battery used on number of devices.


 
   
  Who here is an average listener!?!?  hahaha.  I think 10 hours is reasonable for a device this small.  The more the better, but I can deal with 10.  That means I would probably never use it all up in one day and could just charge it at night.  I've definitely listened to music for more than 4 hours a day before though.


----------



## rexirius

I'm getting the C5 but I can't pair it with the ODAC because I need optical and coax inputs. Do you guys think this amp will mate well with one of the Audio-dg DACs? If it's doable, which Audio-dg DAC would you recommend? Thanks in advance for any advice.


----------



## feverfive

I'm really interested in the C5, and I like the idea of supporting a customer-oriented company based in the U.S. (there, I said it).  Still, I'm interested in seeing impressions of how it fares against the generally accepted "big boys" like offerings from RSA, ALO & TTVJ.  Heck, even a comparison against something like the Arrow 4G (sound quality only..I get the difference in form factor) is something to which I look forward.  After my nothing-but-crappy service experiences over the past 3 years w/ Headstage, and aloofness from the aforementioned "big boys", if the sound quality is in the same ballpark, I'm ready to jump ship & join y'all.


----------



## phrosty

Got my order in today. Will go well with my JDS ODAC.
   
  Does anyone know how it acts when fully charged, plugged in, and playing? Will it still power itself through the battery, constantly charging? I may use this at work and don't want to destroy the battery life by doing so.


----------



## luisdent

phrosty said:


> Got my order in today. Will go well with my JDS ODAC.
> 
> Does anyone know how it acts when fully charged, plugged in, and playing? Will it still power itself through the battery, constantly charging? I may use this at work and don't want to destroy the battery life by doing so.




I was wondering this too. When it finished charging the led went out and turned green. At that point is it using battery again or running off USB?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





phrosty said:


> Got my order in today. Will go well with my JDS ODAC.
> 
> Does anyone know how it acts when fully charged, plugged in, and playing? Will it still power itself through the battery, constantly charging? I may use this at work and don't want to destroy the battery life by doing so.


 
  I do believe it still charges when you're actively using it, but don't quote me on that. You can quote this reply from Mr. Seaber though  :
  Quote: 





> Yes, you can listen to C5 while charging. Unless you have severe ground loop issues, there will be no audible noise while using USB power. The dual LDO’s do a fine job filtering out power supply fluctuations. I’ve spent hours listening from USB power and it works great.


 
   
   
   
  Quote: 





rckyosho said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Holy moly. You sir are the master of mods! I am speechless, hahahaha.
  Really, that's an amazing finding. Personally I don't mind the ~11-hour battery life, but I will definitely consider the S3 battery swap if I ever need a longer battery. 
   
  Kudos to you~
   
   
  Quote: 





feverfive said:


> I'm really interested in the C5, and I like the idea of supporting a customer-oriented company based in the U.S. (there, I said it).  Still, I'm interested in seeing impressions of how it fares against the generally accepted "big boys" like offerings from RSA, ALO & TTVJ.  Heck, even a comparison against something like the Arrow 4G (sound quality only..I get the difference in form factor) is something to which I look forward.  After my nothing-but-crappy service experiences over the past 3 years w/ Headstage, and aloofness from the aforementioned "big boys", if the sound quality is in the same ballpark, I'm ready to jump ship & join y'all.


 
  I can't compare the C5's sound quality to other "big boys", but from just a customer service standpoint, John and JDS Labs in general have provided me with the best customer service I have ever had. Even when I sent an inquiry at 1 AM on the west coast of the USA, John replied back to my e-mail a few minutes later. Even if I didn't e-mail them at a weird time of day, they still replied back to my inquiries in a timely manner (less than half a day later).


----------



## bwaterme

Quote: 





thor777 said:


> Received my C5
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I did not even realize the slots in the case were set-up to allow you to flip it. Thanks for mentioning that.  I did the same now and put my 3M low profile dual lock on the blank side.


----------



## phrosty

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> I do believe it still charges when you're actively using it, but don't quote me on that. You can quote this reply from Mr. Seaber though


 
  The question is not if it charges while being used, but if it uses USB power directly when at 100% charge, versus going through the battery first. Putting a constant load like that on the battery could significantly reduce its life.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





phrosty said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Oh I see what you're saying. I don't know very much about rechargeable batteries unfortunately. :/


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





phrosty said:


> The question is not if it charges while being used, but if it uses USB power directly when at 100% charge, versus going through the battery first. Putting a constant load like that on the battery could significantly reduce its life.


 
   
  The power management IC operates in supplement mode when connected to USB. As long as the USB voltage remains above the battery voltage (your +5V USB supply should _always_ exceed the Li-Ion battery voltage), then power is directly supplied to C5 by USB and the battery is out of the equation. Current is only drained from the battery if the USB bus for some reason cannot supply adequate voltage/current. For example, maybe an overzealous device on the same USB hub consumes maximum bus current, starving C5 of available power.
   
   


audionewbi said:


> I think for an average listener 4-8 hours of battery is more than enough however larger capacity batteries means longer life due to requiring less charge. I am sure if we search ebay we should find the right one with the right connectors. I have seen that battery used on number of devices.


 

   

 Yep, it's a popular battery. Watch out buying Li-Ions from eBay. We've seen several sellers slap 1200-1400mAh stickers on ordinary 800-900mAh iPod 4G batteries. We buy directly from Cameron Sino, although the variations in run-time here prompt further capacity testing.
   
   


rckyosho said:


> the original C5 batt and the adhesive used is easily removable.


 
   
   
  Fun fact: Cameron Sino put stickers on the wrong side on this shipment. The battery model # is supposed to be easily visible:


----------



## IanM

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> The power management IC operates in supplement mode when connected to USB. As long as the USB voltage remains above the battery voltage (your +5V USB supply should _always_ exceed the Li-Ion battery voltage), then power is directly supplied to C5 by USB and the battery is out of the equation.


 
   
  That's a very interesting bit of info, thanks. I hadn't really thought about this detail. Does the 02 work in the same way? or is this an advantage for the C5?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Interesting to note. So if the C5 is the only device connected to my computer via USB, and I'm actively using it, does the battery not charge then since the USB port is supplying the needed power to the operation of the C5?


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





ianm said:


> That's a very interesting bit of info, thanks. I hadn't really thought about this detail. Does the 02 work in the same way? or is this an advantage for the C5?


 
   
  O2 is powered by a 14VAC transformer, not USB. Totally different circuit. Its batteries are also undisturbed while connected to AC power. But O2 has no charge regulation or indication; it will charge indefinitely at a snail's pace.
   
  C5 charges quickly and knows to stop charging when the battery is full.
   
   


miceblue said:


> Interesting to note. So if the C5 is the only device connected to my computer via USB, and I'm actively using it, does the battery not charge then since the USB port is supplying the needed power to the operation of the C5?


 

   
  The USB port can supply up to 500mA. Current is allocated to the amp and the battery as needed. C5 shouldn't draw more than 200mA, so the amp will charge more slowly while in use.


----------



## audionewbi

I like to thank you on behalf of the thread members, once again excellent feedback service  Cant wait till mine arrives.


----------



## phrosty

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> The power management IC operates in supplement mode when connected to USB. As long as the USB voltage remains above the battery voltage (your +5V USB supply should _always_ exceed the Li-Ion battery voltage), then power is directly supplied to C5 by USB and the battery is out of the equation. Current is only drained from the battery if the USB bus for some reason cannot supply adequate voltage/current. For example, maybe an overzealous device on the same USB hub consumes maximum bus current, starving C5 of available power.


 
   
  Fantastic! Thanks!


----------



## gkanai

Question for John or anyone who knows:
   
  If I'm amplifying the signal from my laptop, is the 3.5" input the only input? Can I input signal via the usb port or is that solely for charging?


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





gkanai said:


> Question for John or anyone who knows:
> 
> If I'm amplifying the signal from my laptop, is the 3.5" input the only input? Can I input signal via the usb port or is that solely for charging?


 
  C5 is an amp only so USB is only for charging.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





gkanai said:


> Question for John or anyone who knows:
> 
> If I'm amplifying the signal from my laptop, is the 3.5" input the only input? Can I input signal via the usb port or is that solely for charging?


 
  As *audionewbi* said, the USB port is for charging the internal battery. The only input for the C5 is through the 3.5 mm jack...unless you mod it like *rckyosho* did. 
   
  I took some photos of the C5's circuit board early this morning for a different thread, but I might as well post them here too:

  ^ Atmel Mega microcontroller
   

  ^ op-amp chip (OPA2227)
   

  ^ overall circuit


----------



## thor777

Can anyone recommend a higher capacity battery with the same type connector as the stock battery? Or if anyone knows what the 3-pin connector is called that would help too, thanks! If I was to solder my own Samsung battery to a connector, I just need to solder red to + and black to minus?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





thor777 said:


> Can anyone recommend a higher capacity battery with the same type connector as the stock battery? Or if anyone knows what the 3-pin connector is called that would help too, thanks! If I was to solder my own Samsung battery to a connector, I just need to solder red to + and black to minus?


 
*rckyosho* listed a bunch of things that could work in his post a few pages back:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/647838/jds-labs-c5-portable-amplifier-appreciation-discussion-thread-first-units-have-arrived-pg20/510#post_9245190
   
  Quote: 





> you have to solder or glue(not recommended) wires to the S3 battery and use a similar connector or small female pins(removable and shrinkwrap to prevent shortages) to connect to the C5


----------



## gkanai

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> C5 is a amp only so USB is only for charging.


 
   
  Understood & thanks.
   
  I've got the small form-factor ODAC, and paired with the C5, it's quite excellent.


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





gkanai said:


> Understood & thanks.
> 
> I've got the small form-factor ODAC, and paired with the C5, it's quite excellent.


 
  Yes I have seen ODAC and C5 pictures, looks very compact and delicious :-D


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The only bad thing about that setup for me is when I need to charge the C5 because I only have 1 USB port on 1 side of my computer. I can't use the ODAC and the C5 at the same time in that case, unless I use a USB hub. >_<


----------



## rckyosho

feverfive said:


> I'm really interested in the C5, and I like the idea of supporting a customer-oriented company based in the U.S. (there, I said it).  Still, I'm interested in seeing impressions of how it fares against the generally accepted "big boys" like offerings from RSA, ALO & TTVJ.  Heck, even a comparison against something like the Arrow 4G (sound quality only..I get the difference in form factor) is something to which I look forward.  After my nothing-but-crappy service experiences over the past 3 years w/ Headstage, and aloofness from the aforementioned "big boys", if the sound quality is in the same ballpark, I'm ready to jump ship & join y'all.



I have done a comparison with the apex glacier in fact a few pages back and gave the C5 a slight advantage in terms of detail retrieval but if you want a more forgiving sound than the apex might be better.




phrosty said:


> Got my order in today. Will go well with my JDS ODAC.
> 
> Does anyone know how it acts when fully charged, plugged in, and playing? Will it still power itself through the battery, constantly charging? I may use this at work and don't want to destroy the battery life by doing so.







luisdent said:


> I was wondering this too. When it finished charging the led went out and turned green. At that point is it using battery again or running off USB?




I know this has been answered by John but just wanted to add that if you really want to use the C5 solely powered by usb(meaning a few months or more not days) than my advice is to charge the battery to at least 60% and remove it and store it in the fridge or some cool storage area.That would save the battery.And yes it will run even without the battery connected as John has explained and I have personally tried while doing the battery mod.



miceblue said:


> Holy moly. You sir are the master of mods! I am speechless, hahahaha.
> Really, that's an amazing finding. Personally I don't mind the ~11-hour battery life, but I will definitely consider the S3 battery swap if I ever need a longer battery.
> 
> Kudos to you~
> ...


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> The only bad thing about that setup for me is when I need to charge the C5 because I only have 1 USB port on 1 side of my computer. I can't use the ODAC and the C5 at the same time in that case, unless I use a USB hub. >_<


 
  How about the other side?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That could work too, but then I have a USB cable wrapping around my laptop to the other side, and that doesn't look very nice; not to mention the Monoprice cable being fairly stiff.
   
  Quote: 





rckyosho said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I didn't realise the Apex Glacier has a retail price 2.5+ times that of the C5. That's pretty impressive for the C5 in that comparison then.
   
  Yeah I just saw your photo with the S3 battery installed and it actually rests on top of the microcontroller chip and OPA2227 op-amp. It's surprising that it still fits in the case on top of those components.
   
  Regarding the battery label, it was curious to me that they didn't have the specs and branding on it (or at least a visible one to the user when they take the circuit out of the casing).


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





rckyosho said:


> That's a fun fact indeed and I believe miceblue and all the first shipment suffer the same fate.Has CS address this then?....just curious.


 
   
  Yes, at least they were consistent in this lot. We'll ask them to correct the stickers in the next shipment.


----------



## miceblue

Woah! I was just trying out the C5 is while charging via USB and when the C5's was done charging, the LED went from blue (indicating charging) to regular green. Cool.
   

  ^ the LED is green here; also note the cable mess


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> C5 charges quickly and knows to stop charging when the battery is full.


 
   
  That sounds nice, what about people like me that may end up using it more as a stationary amp than a portable one and using an USB power adapter to charge it from the wall socket (to avoid the noisy background from the USB ports), are you able to keep using the device while keeping it plugged in without damaging the battery in the long run? Ofc I can just let it be emptied and recharge every now and then like you should let batteries do to keep their lifespan better intact but I'm curious to ask anyway.
   
  I've kept using my digiZoid ZO amp this way and let it perhaps be emptied like 2 times a month or so and it has worked fine so far.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





rpgwizard said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  This is completely unrelated, but I'm still surprised your ZO avatar won the "show me the ZOvatar" contest. XD
   
  On a more related note, the ZO does have a great bass boost for the sub-bass and lower-bass frequencies. The C5 has more of a lower-bass/mid-bass bass boost.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> This is completely unrelated, but I'm still surprised your ZO avatar won the "show me the ZOvatar" contest. XD
> 
> On a more related note, the ZO does have a great bass boost for the sub-bass and lower-bass frequencies. The C5 has more of a lower-bass/mid-bass bass boost.


 
   
  Well they picked 2 winners and I guess they were just doing me a favor for my ZO enthusiasm, I mean after all I keep praising it a lot on this forum and I own a ZO1, ZO2.1 and ZO2.3 xD I actually own 2x ZO2.1 haha (not going to sell any of them either, keeping the other one as backup)  So guess you can call me an ZO-addict. But I think the JDS labs 6.5dB boost would work fairly good for me too, at least with my current headphones. With ZO I'm at yellow typically with my Q40, so yes I'm quite a basshead.


----------



## rckyosho

rpgwizard said:


> That sounds nice, what about people like me that may end up using it more as a stationary amp than a portable one and using an USB power adapter to charge it from the wall socket (to avoid the noisy background from the USB ports), are you able to keep using the device while keeping it plugged in without damaging the battery in the long run? Ofc I can just let it be emptied and recharge every now and then like you should let batteries do to keep their lifespan better intact but I'm curious to ask anyway.
> 
> I've kept using my digiZoid ZO amp this way and let it perhaps be emptied like 2 times a month or so and it has worked fine so far.



 
 This has more to do with the characteristics of lithium battery in general than that of the C5 amp and I have actually touch on this a few post back where in your type of usage it is actually much better to remove the battery with around 40 to 60 percent charge and store it in a cool place.Lithium-ion is a low maintenance battery,there is no memory and no scheduled cycling is required to prolong the battery's life though aging is a concern where typically some capacity deterioration is noticeable after one year, whether the battery is in use or not.To reduce aging storing in a cool place is recommended while leaving it in the amp just make aging faster in a sense as discharging occurs faster at higher temperatures.Loss rates vary by temperature: 6% loss at 0 °C (32 °F), 20% at 25 °C (77 °F), and 35% at 40 °C (104 °F). When stored at 40%–60% charge level, the capacity loss is reduced to 2%, 4%, and 15%, respectively though these are just a rough guide. And yes the C5 amp will run without the battery attached and before you ask I have tested this while doing the battery mod. PS: To John, you owe me an ODAC to make up for answering quierires on your behalf. LOL.!


----------



## luisdent

rckyosho said:


> This has more to do with the characteristics of lithium battery in general than that of the C5 amp and I have actually touch on this a few post back where in your type of usage it is actually much better to remove the battery with around 40 to 60 percent charge and store it in a cool place.Lithium-ion is a low maintenance battery,there is no memory and no scheduled cycling is required to prolong the battery's life though aging is a concern where typically some capacity deterioration is noticeable after one year, whether the battery is in use or not.To reduce aging storing in a cool place is recommended while leaving it in the amp just make aging faster in a sense as discharging occurs faster at higher temperatures.Loss rates vary by temperature: 6% loss at 0 °C (32 °F), 20% at 25 °C (77 °F), and 35% at 40 °C (104 °F). When stored at 40%–60% charge level, the capacity loss is reduced to 2%, 4%, and 15%, respectively though these are just a rough guide.And yes the C5 amp will run without the battery attached and before you ask I have tested this while doing the battery mod.PS: To John, you owe me an ODAC to make up for answering quierires on your behalf. LOL.!




I think i owe john an ODAC. Haha. for all the questions he answers for me


----------



## rckyosho

luisdent said:


> I think i owe john an ODAC. Haha. for all the questions he answers for me



If that's the case than you should send the ODAC to me instead saving John the trouble haha!


----------



## miceblue

During a study session at school today, my friend randomly grabbed my portable rig and started listening to his music via YouTube. I had the bass boost on since I was previously using the rig on the bus.
  Long story short, my friend suddenly exclaimed "HOLY C$#@ it sounds like I'm in a movie theater!". I then turned the bass boost off and he exclaimed "wow, this actually sounds pretty good".
   
  So I guess I'm not the only person who thinks of the bass boost as "movie theater bass-boost".


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> During a study session at school today, my friend randomly grabbed my portable rig and started listening to his music via YouTube. I had the bass boost on since I was previously using the rig on the bus.
> Long story short, my friend suddenly exclaimed "HOLY C$#@ it sounds like I'm in a movie theater!". I then turned the bass boost off and he exclaimed "wow, this actually sounds pretty good".
> 
> So I guess I'm not the only person who thinks of the bass boost as "movie theater bass-boost".


 
  It sounds like it will give my ER4S the bass it needs however for my other IEM I dont think I will use it. Mine was shipped today, should be here tomorrow. I will take some pictures tomorrow and give my thoughts about it in about 15-20 days. 
   
  I will be pairing it with:
  1)ODAC
  2)iPod video
  3)Sansa clip+
  4)Rocoo BA
  5)Venturecraft DD socket 1 (MUSES01 edition)
  6)iPod Touch latest Generation
   
  I will be testing it with the following IEM:
  1)CK100PRO and ACS T15: Testing for hiss
  2)ER4S: Testing for, micro-details.
  3)EX1000: Testing for dynamic and neutrality
  4)XBA-4: This is the ultimate test, no amp I have owned makes this sound "musical". The only amp that is speculated that make them sound "musical" is the 500 USD portaphile! They also have a nice sound stage.


----------



## Apo0th3karY

I might have missed it but has anyone a/b'd the BH against the C5?


----------



## mrbigsby

got mine.
   
  I wont go into too much detail yet as its early days and im still chatting with John.
   
  The Good:
  -brings out heaps of detail! excellent sound qualities
  -same size as the C421
  -sound in most respects better than the C421
  -fast charge!
  -bass boost **
   
   
  The Bad:
  -anodised color rubs off easily on my model, i mean its never been in my pocket, and im wearing the silver/white on my hands. But im told this is an easy fix so im not worried about it.
  -in my box, no rubber feet- minor to some, but i gripe about this a bit, as im not someone who has rubber feet lying around at home. So i have to drive to a hardware store before i can use an amp if they arent included. The C421 had them (and spares) included. So im imagining this was an unintentional oversight by an exemplary company! 
  -wont easily power my Fischer Audio FA011 (laptop, more than enough with iphone for some reason), these are 160ohm, but still disappointing. I had it maxed out on full gain constantly with these and it was sorta loud, but if i was serenading a broom or mop i  would have wanted more.
  -listening with the USB plugged in gives terrible results, the noise floor is VERY high, and the volume pot clicking is exaggerated around 30-50X. But again minor problem as it charges SO FAST!
  -bass boost**
   
  **This is where things get good/bad. I actually did a quick side by side of the C421 and C5. Without writing a novel about it (although questions are welcome), i didnt buy the C421 again new- even though i could have. The C5 sounds better in almost every regard, other than the bass boost for CERTAIN cans. If like me, you love bassy cans, then the C5 in its unadulterated state is gorgeous! If you want to flick that bass switch, turn it down first mate- your in for a rough ride! I mean it sounds very very good, but its a bit much, even for me. Anyone who has read any of my reviews knows im a admitted bass junky in the most depraved of ways with no intention of recovery. So i do like the bass boost here, i just think its a tad too much. If someone were listening to their bassier cans at high volumes and flicked the switch it may affect the driver and their hearing long term. This is an achievement in itself as ive never experienced an amp that can do that. My biggest gripe with the E12 was its pathetic bass boost, the C5's is a weapon by comparison. Good/bad bass boost is something im still happy to have, and glad for the switch.
   
  If i were to change the C5?
  In a utopian world, i would have the gain move to where the bass boost switch is.
  Then i would have the push button selector function of the new volume pot act as a toggle for bass, once pushed you can control bass via the digital +/- pot, then pressed again will take you back to volume enabling the same action of left right +/- db. 
  Superficially, i wouldnt anodise them. Id do all the casings in the same finish and material as the endplates, and either etch, powdercoat, or spray, any logos. The anodising just doesnt work.
   
  As it comes its a great amp and worth every penny. Its intended for portabe use, so its shortfalls on my macbook pro are accepted, plug it into an iphone and it magic, with oodles of power, detail, and utterly amazing sound. If you want a dr jekyll for your hyde- thats provided for. The drama of the bass boost is what might very well make an icon of the C5. As always its small and light, and the service of JDS labs is more than just above and beyond, its supernatural.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> It sounds like it will give my ER4S the bass it needs however for my other IEM I dont think I will use it. Mine was shipped today, should be here tomorrow. I will take some pictures tomorrow and give my thoughts about it in about 15-20 days.
> 
> I will be pairing it with:
> 1)ODAC
> ...


 
   
  For micro details and bass there couldn't be a better match!!!  I've never been happier with a headphone/earphone in my life than with th er-4s/c5 combo and bass boost.  The bass make them almost perfectly flat from bottom to top.  There are times where I think it is a little much and would prefer half the amount, but i think most people would like it even if they aren't bass heads.  If you like the er-4s i think you'll like it more with the c5   At least i do.
   
   
  Quote: 





rckyosho said:


> If that's the case than you should send the ODAC to me instead saving John the trouble haha!





   
  i knew you would say that


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





rckyosho said:


> If that's the case than you should send the ODAC to me instead saving John the trouble haha!


 
   
  i knew you would say that


----------



## luisdent

Holy poop batman.  Ready for some quotes? !!!!
  Quote: 





mrbigsby said:


> The Bad:
> -anodised color rubs off easily on my model, i mean its never been in my pocket, and im wearing the silver/white on my hands. But im told this is an easy fix so im not worried about it.


 
   
  Mine too, although John is sending me another case, so I'll see how that is.  You can see the wear on mine, and I've babied it completely.  Wrapped it in a microfiber ipod cloth when I transport it, set it image-side up on the desk with nothing on top of it.  And it STILL wore off immediately.  It gives the impression of a cheap spray paint job.
   
  I don't mean to sound negative to JDS, as they had problems with the case production company.  I'll post how the new case is once I use it a bit.
   

   
  Quote: 





> -in my box, no rubber feet- minor to some, but i gripe about this a bit, as im not someone who has rubber feet lying around at home.


 
   
  Did you check the anti-static bag the amp was in?  I didn't think I had any either until I noticed they were at the bottom of the ant-static bag, which is dark and not easy to see through.  Just a thought...
   
  Quote: 





> -wont easily power my Fischer Audio FA011 (laptop, more than enough with iphone for some reason), these are 160ohm, but still disappointing. I had it maxed out on full gain constantly with these and it was sorta loud, but if i was serenading a broom or mop i  would have wanted more.


 
   
  That seems odd, as this powers my hd600 with no problem at all at 300ohms.  I suppose your phones are not as efficient, but did you press in the gain switch (volume control) to get the high gain mode?
   
  Quote: 





> -listening with the USB plugged in gives terrible results, the noise floor is VERY high, and the volume pot clicking is exaggerated around 30-50X. But again minor problem as it charges SO FAST!


 
   
  Unfortunately, I have the same problem.  With the USB charing and my ipod connected I get zero noise from the USB.  However, if I connect my macbook pro audio interface (duet) or even onboard audio I get the computer gurgling and noise floor at medium volumes.  I can't say anything bad about the amp though, because I have this problem with ANY audio device when I have a USB device in the chain.  Sort of like a ground loop, but it's not a/c power related.  I'm guessing some laptops have a problem shielding the USB noise due to space limitations?  Just a theory, but the ONLY way I've found to eliminate the noise is by running a USB cable with the ground wire cut and taped off.  I don't do this with anything other than my midi keyboard which doesn't require the power portion of the cable, and even then only when I need to capture midi.  However, as the amp using the power portion I wouldn't run that cable with it ever.  If anyone has a solution for this I'll buy you an ODAC! hahaha (kidding, well... just maybe...)
   
  Quote: 





> **I mean it sounds very very good, but its a bit much, even for me. Anyone who has read any of my reviews knows im a admitted bass junky in the most depraved of ways with no intention of recovery. So i do like the bass boost here, i just think its a tad too much. If someone were listening to their bassier cans at high volumes and flicked the switch it may affect the driver and their hearing long term. This is an achievement in itself as ive never experienced an amp that can do that. My biggest gripe with the E12 was its pathetic bass boost, the C5's is a weapon by comparison. Good/bad bass boost is something im still happy to have, and glad for the switch.


 
   
  I agree.  The bass boost sounds amazing.  Best I've ever heard in implementation, but a bit much, even with my ER-4S!  Haha.  Although, with something like the HD600 it's definitely "movie-theatre" type bass.  It is literally like adding a large subwoofer to a theater system.  It's incredible.  And it does an awesome job of not interfering with the other frequencies/details (at least on the two phones I mentioned).
   
  I would recommend a little less bass, or as I've mentioned before a two step switch.  +3db and +6db
   
  Quote: 





> If i were to change the C5?
> In a utopian world, i would have the gain move to where the bass boost switch is.


 
   
  This is a good point.  It seems odd to use a right-angle cable with the c5.  You either block the volume control (very bad) or you have the cable in the way of the headphone jack.  Swapping them would help, but could be a similar issue with right-angle headphone cables.  Therefor your suggestion is a good one.  The bass boost is probably used less frequently and therefor swapping them allows you to use right-angle cables for both if you're so inclined and still not block the volume knob.  If you have to move the cable around to switch the bass so-be-it.  I think that would be a nice change, but the way it is doesn't bother me much.  I plan on getting the straight cable adapter anyway.
   
  Quote: 





> Then i would have the push button selector function of the new volume pot act as a toggle for bass, once pushed you can control bass via the digital +/- pot, then pressed again will take you back to volume enabling the same action of left right +/- db.


 
   
  I would agree, however, that would introduce another element that might reduce the quality of the bass boost as John mentioned (correct me if I'm wrong John).  Therefore, I wouldn't want that if so.  I would recommend the three way physical switch that gives you neutral, option 1 and option 2 bass boost.  That would fix the bass for us who think it's too much and give those who want more the next level, all while retaining the superior quality of using the physical switch as opposed to the digital potentiometer...
   
  Quote: 





> Superficially, i wouldnt anodise them. Id do all the casings in the same finish and material as the endplates, and either etch, powdercoat, or spray, any logos. The anodising just doesnt work.


 
   
  Is that because it rubs off easy or something?  I think my case looks great except the wear it gets so quickly.  I assumed this was mostly the faulty case production John talked about?
   
  Quote: 





> As it comes its a great amp and worth every penny. Its intended for portabe use, so its shortfalls on my macbook pro are accepted, plug it into an iphone and it magic, with oodles of power, detail, and utterly amazing sound. If you want a dr jekyll for your hyde- thats provided for. The drama of the bass boost is what might very well make an icon of the C5. As always its small and light, and the service of JDS labs is more than just above and beyond, its supernatural.


 
   
  I agree.  iPod touch 5th gen, lightening adapter to 30-pin line-out and a C5 are phenomenal.  And JDS is number one in my book.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





mrbigsby said:


> got mine.
> 
> I wont go into too much detail yet as its early days and im still chatting with John.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm surprised to see this remark about the FA-011's. Nick and I have been enjoying these headphones for the past week, driven by C5.
   
  This USB noise must be ground loop (voltage drop between audio ground and USB ground). C5's dual LDO's give excellent performance until connecting an audio cable from the same audio source that's supplying USB power; as with any device, such a configuration creates the possibility for ground loop. We've tested C5 from the headphone output jack of our office computers while powering the amp from a USB port on the same machine. No noise is audible even with 100dB/mW+, 32 ohm headphones. An external AC USB adapter should minimize or eliminate the ground loop. Try an iPhone charger or equivalent.
   
  Rubber feet should be in the static bag, and they're commonly overlooked and discarded. I'll have our shippers place these in a separate, clear bag for future shipments. Email us if you need replacement bumpers.
   
  Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Is that because it rubs off easy or something?  I think my case looks great except the wear it gets so quickly.  I assumed this was mostly the faulty case production John talked about?


 
   
  Exactly, this is a defect limited to a few Silver cases. Sorry these shipped at all. We're replacing all bad Silver cases.
   
  Red and Slate are not affected. We removed Silver from the preorder menu as soon as the issue was observed.
   


> Originally Posted by *mrbigsby* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> As it comes its a great amp and worth every penny. Its intended for portabe use, so its shortfalls on my macbook pro are accepted, plug it into an iphone and it magic, with oodles of power, detail, and utterly amazing sound. If you want a dr jekyll for your hyde- thats provided for. The drama of the bass boost is what might very well make an icon of the C5. As always its small and light, and the service of JDS labs is more than just above and beyond, its supernatural.


 

   
  It's great to have feedback like this. I was torn. We started with half this amount of bass boost and I hated it. So we doubled the intensity. It's insane for FA-011's (an already bass heavy set), but fun for more neutral headphones.
   
   
  These updates will be posted to our blog shortly:
   
*Good News:* 99% of preorders have shipped as of 5PM CST!
   
*Bad News:* We're almost sold out. Mass production is underway, with full availability in early April.


----------



## mrbigsby

THanks for your in depth responses.
   
  Did you know the lightning plug may (almost certainly, without opening one) have a little DAC in it? I want to explore this further before i say im certain of it. But so far its a safe assumption.
   
  As far as the casing question goes, Id simply prefer to remove all variables, and quite enjoy the finish on the endplates.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





mrbigsby said:


> THanks for your in depth responses.
> 
> Did you know the lightning plug may (almost certainly, without opening one) have a little DAC in it? I want to explore this further before i say im certain of it. But so far its a safe assumption.
> 
> As far as the casing question goes, Id simply prefer to remove all variables, and quite enjoy the finish on the endplates.


 
   
  I personally like "raw" materials. It the case could be raw in a way that it is durable I would prefer that myself.  The cases look excellent, but if the finishes come off like my current one I'd pass completely on anodizing.  Buy anyhow, I just love the sound!


----------



## bwaterme

I'm going to add my 2 cents here regarding the bass boost.  Keep in mind I am a rookie.  
   
  I like the bass boost quite a bit.  It adds quite a lot to my JH13 listening experience.  I use the bass boost about 50% of the time.  If an already heavy bass song come on my iPod, I quickly turn it off.  If you want to hear a perfect example, try "No One" by Alicia Keys.  I can't imagine even the biggest bass head would listen to that song with the bass boost on.  Then again, to each their own.  
   
  I am not going to be critical of JDS, but I will jump on the bandwagon of a 2 option bass boost.  Maybe +3 and +6 as has been suggested.  I have no idea what that would entail from an engineering perspective, so it may not be a fair suggestion.  There are many tunes I could imagine enjoying more with a bass boost about 1/2 of the C5's current boost, but would not want to sacrifice having the full boost option.
   
  I will add that I have had no finish issues with my slate C5, and I quite like the finish.  
   
  Again, JDS has made my first amp experience great and I commend them on their service and communication.  And the fact that they monitor these forums means they are really in touch with their clients and they care.  Well done!


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





bwaterme said:


> I'm going to add my 2 cents here regarding the bass boost.  Keep in mind I am a rookie.
> 
> I like the bass boost quite a bit.  It adds quite a lot to my JH13 listening experience.  I use the bass boost about 50% of the time.  If an already heavy bass song come on my iPod, I quickly turn it off.  If you want to hear a perfect example, try "No One" by Alicia Keys.  I can't imagine even the biggest bass head would listen to that song with the bass boost on.  Then again, to each their own.
> 
> ...


 
   
  A two option bass boost would require two resistors and a three way switch like this:  http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/NKK-Switches/G23AV-RO/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduinpfcAYX4LhsFXRmjJieQyJy4awIUEaHNdN7oVjJpMVQ%3d%3d
   
  I believe the issue is that john would have to redesign the circuit to work with these components.  But maybe we'll see this in the C6!!!


----------



## mrbigsby

There's a fantastic synergy between the FA-011 and C5!


----------



## luisdent

iPod Touch 5G connected to the C5 with a lightening to 30-pin adapter cable powering the Etymotic ER-4S earphones.  This was all today.  I listened to about 8 hours of music today (awesome!).  I left the albums looping at normal volume when I was not listening actively.  This was started and stopped within a minute of the actual use and end of the battery life.  I stopped it whenever I stopped the iPod.  All obvious I'm sure.  Nonetheless.  100ohm earphones, 11.25 hours...  I'm not complaining.


----------



## Gradyoactive

How does the bass boost compare the the cmoyBB v2.03's bass boost?  I'm definitely a basshead, so I EQ the bass up in addition to switching my cmoyBB's bass boost on while using my already bass heavy Q40s and D2000s.  Supposedly the cmoyBB boosts up to +9 dB, while the C5 only boosts up to +6 dB.  But maybe since the C5 is more powerful in general, it somehow makes more of an impact?


----------



## audionewbi

Here is some early pictures I have taken with my ipod touch. I like the color but I too have visible marks on my case. I do not mind as long as those it doesnt rust, will it rust?


----------



## miceblue

My ISP pocket programmer came in the mail today, as well as an Arduino Micro board I bought for school. The Arduino Micro board has a set of ISP header pins on it similar to the C5, and I noticed that the female sockets for the ISP programmer completely engulf the male pins. Since the header pins for the C5 have to be trimmed, will this be a problem for the female connector? I'm assuming no, but I just want to make sure before I solder the pins in since I'm not very good at desoldering.


----------



## mrbigsby

The issues i had powering my C5 via the laptop(s) were to do with weird midi settings i have now fixed. Powers FA011 perfectly. Love this amp.


----------



## audionewbi

*ODAC+C5+CK100pro= mind blown* well done! I love the pairing more than my O2+ODAC!
   
  EDIT: I am hardly touching the body and it is loosing its anodizing. Would the body rust without the coating?


----------



## gkanai

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> I do not mind as long as those it doesnt rust, will it rust?


 
   
  The case is not steel so it will not rust.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


>


 
   

  An angry, foreign truck driver dropped a pallet of these boxes in our parking lot last week. He wasn't pleased that we do not have a dock or forklift...
   
*Silver Cases: *I checked our shipment records and 5 pieces from the flaky batch of Silver cases left our office around May 6, plus a few more to distributors. While I'm not pleased about that, we have solid records of the cosmetic defect and will send out replacement cases this week. Silver cases will not be offered in the future. There are only a few ways to achieve a nice clear aluminum finish, and none of the scratch-resistant methods are compatible with black laser engraving (artwork comes out light gray). We could resort to silkscreening to achieve black artwork, but I'm still not pleased with any of the clear anodizing samples we've tried. The Silver cases we're sending out this week are "raw" blasted aluminum, free of anodizing. They look nice and the finish will not wear off; it's still a soft metal. Aluminum does not rust. Next time we consider doing a product release at 2am on a Friday night, I'll make sure we sleep first and reconsider last minute additions. Three colors just seemed like a great idea!
   
*Preorder:* The C5 preorder sold out this morning. Mass production boards are scheduled to arrive April 8-11.
   
   
  Quote: 





miceblue said:


> My ISP pocket programmer came in the mail today, as well as an Arduino Micro board I bought for school. The Arduino Micro board has a set of ISP header pins on it similar to the C5, and I noticed that the female sockets for the ISP programmer completely engulf the male pins. Since the header pins for the C5 have to be trimmed, will this be a problem for the female connector? I'm assuming no, but I just want to make sure before I solder the pins in since I'm not very good at desoldering.


 
   
  Yes, the connector will still mate to a trimmed 6-pin header. Works fine for me.


----------



## thor777

I was worried about the anodizing coming off too so I decided to protect the case by spraying a coat of clear gloss.  It makes the red have more pop as well.  Unfortunately, I did a piss poor job and went overboard and had some pooling in some areas (see the curvy line near the bottom right).  My question is, Can I safely sand off the clear coat to start over or will sanding remove the red anodizing as well?  Any one here experienced in anodized metals?
   
  P.S.  I didn't get a nice black cardboard box like the one audionewbi posted.  Did anyone else get a box with their C5?


----------



## phrosty

jseaber, what's the lead time on the remaining preorders? I'm anxious to get mine!


----------



## jseaber

*[size=1rem]Tues., March 12 Update:[/size]*[size=1rem] 99% of preorders have shipped! New Slate C5′s ship immediately. [size=1rem]New Red C5′s will ship next Tuesday, March 19.[/size][/size]
   


thor777 said:


> I was worried about the anodizing coming off too so I decided to protect the case by spraying a coat of clear gloss.  It makes the red have more pop as well.  Unfortunately, I did a piss poor job and went overboard and had some pooling in some areas (see the curvy line near the bottom right).  My question is, Can I safely sand off the clear coat to start over or will sanding remove the red anodizing as well?  Any one here experienced in anodized metals?
> 
> P.S.  I didn't get a nice black cardboard box like the one audionewbi posted.  Did anyone else get a box with their C5?


 

   
  Looks neat! Only a few Silver cases are affected by possible wear (not fully anodized). There's *no *concern with the Red or Slate anodizing. A layer of anodizing is a few mils thick. It can't be removed unless you sand the case. Definitely don't try that.
   
  See post #582 regarding the black cardboard boxes. Those arrived late last week for general shipping, so many C5's shipped before then.


----------



## audionewbi

I had a question about battery, if I have the C5 connected to my laptop while I am using it how is the device getting powered? 
  My concern is having it connected while I am using it will decrease the battery life as I am thinking it is continuously charging and discharging which is a bad thing.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> I had a question about battery, if I have the C5 connected to my laptop while I am using it how is the device getting powered?
> My concern is having it connected while I am using it will decrease the battery life as I am thinking it is continuously charging and discharging which is a bad thing.


 
  Mr. Seaber answered this in a previous post, but I think the USB connection powers the C5 and any remaining current available through the USB connection will charge the C5's battery.
  When I charged the C5 a few days ago, while using it, the LED went from blue (light blue indicating charging while using it) to green. So I'm guessing when the battery is fully charged and you're using it, you're bypassing the battery?


----------



## audionewbi

O yea missed that post, thanks for the clarification, good to know it doesnt effect the battery life.
  =-=-
*Arrow 4G vs C5 *
   
  Just an update on C5 vs arrow 4G as I think few members on the forum are deciding between the two. While arrow 4G wins the battery, slim factor and extra features which for most IEM/gears dont make a hug difference I find that I C5 is more neutral which is a good think in my view. 

 I want to say C5 is a better sounding amp than arrow 4G however as it is they are on equal. To be fair arrow 4G wins due to the slimmer nature and its provided extra feature which can be useful for the right gear but having said that you are required to pay extra for those features and sadly the customer support of arrow 4G does not have a good track record. Arrow 4G is as slim as it can get and there are very few amps which are that slim.
   
  I think C5 with the current asking price is a great sounding product. I enjoy its slightly forward neutral presentation more than my O2. It feels more energetic compared to O2. 

 I think the key point is synergy. While I love how CK100PRO pairs with C5 the pairing with arrow 4G is no where as enjoyable for me as the it is with the C5. I dont think there will ever be a one amp to rule them all. 
   
*Comment on C5 heat:*
  When C5 is getting used and charging it is ever so slightly warm on hand. I would say the case feels like 25-35 degree celsius however I might be wrong as I think it is cooler.
   
  Once the charging is done and the light has turned green and it is getting used the case is almost as cool as it is when it is off which is of course a great thing as heat normally means wasted energy. 
   
*Comment on bass:*
  I never considered myself a bass head however I do enjoy a nice punchy bass slum. I really enjoy the bass and bass boost with the CK100PRO however I find the bass boost to be too much for my other IEM. I need to listen to them in more detail however issues like bass and treble are very subjective as each ear likes a different tunning.


----------



## ostewart

Photos finally:


----------



## ostewart

Plus unboxing:


----------



## audionewbi

Loving my C5, really loving it. ODAC and C5 stack nicely, I am yet to test the matching of ODAC+C5 in more detail but I was just blown away with how it matched with CK100PRO.


----------



## illusioned

someone is a jds labs fanboy


----------



## ostewart

Just a little...
  But the C421 may be sold, i'll miss it but it has been great. The C5 is just that little bit better.


----------



## nOtEcH

I hoped for a good amp when I decided to go for the JDS Labs C5. From what I read here and there about this little amp I thought that it might be what I was looking for. The idea was to match it with a Beyerdynamic T5p, and that is still the case, but it is indisposed at the moment.

The amp arrived yesterday and I could not wait for trying this little amp out.. only problem was that I did not have any suitable cans for it.
I thougth it might not be a good ide to try the Sennheiser HD800 and ruin the first impression of this well spoke of amp, but I could not wait...

What can I say? Where should I start? First of all I am impressed of this little amps performance, and how much fun they bring into the music listening experience. Wow! The HD800's have deep bass, and with the Moon Audio Black Dragon V2 cable they get more and firmer bass. I love how the HD800's sound with this cable (I do not like them with the stock cable) but I have always considered them a little bit bass shy (not that much of a punch - if you know what I mean?), even on pretty expensive dedicated desktop headphone amps. I turned on the "Bass boost" switch on the C5.. and I have to admit that I have not turned it off again.

Bass is one thing.. but there is more.. hights.. depth.. width.. details.. instruments.. voices.. separation.. musicality.. I does everything very well and all this makes this amp just a pure joy to listen to.

I have to say that this is just my first impression of this amp.. I have not done "in depth tests" with all kind of music yet, and I may never do, as this amp may be too enjoyable to analyze. 


What can I say..? I am impressed! I know that I already said that, but I am not the only one. I played a demo track for a few friends today and they all smiled and they all responded with "does this little thing do that?!"

Me? A fanboy? I guess that I am now. 

Below is a picture of my new amp connected to a iPod Touch (4th gen) with a FiiO L9 LOD connector.
(Can't wait for the upgrade to Moon Audio Silver Dragon V2 LOD - but I have to though..)


----------



## miceblue

Nice impressions *nOtEcH*!
   
  I have a question about the ISP programmer.

 I soldered the ISP headers onto the C5
 I attached the female end of the pocket programmer to the ISP header pins
 I tried to go through the suggested downloads and workarounds for Windows 7 but none of them seem to come to any decisive conclusions and/or the download links for the drivers are unavailable
 Trying to upload the plain, unaltered code to the C5 from Arduino's software (I have the C5's board selected in Tools -> Boards, I get the following error:
   


> Binary sketch size: 4,914 bytes (of a 14,336 byte maximum)
> processing.app.SerialNotFoundException: Serial port 'COM1' not found. Did you select the right one from the Tools > Serial Port menu?
> at processing.app.Serial.<init>(Serial.java:191)
> at processing.app.Serial.<init>(Serial.java:77)
> ...


----------



## luisdent

I'd like to just say that I find I don't want to listen to anything else anymore.  Anytime I want to listen to music I go for the ER-4S / C5 combo.  I have other very nice audio gear of different types, but I don't use them anymore as the C5 just sounds better and more neutral.  Mmmmmm.
   
  The only frustrating thing about the C5 is not having more time to relax and listen to music.


----------



## jonbmet

Just got back from a trip today....c5 was waiting for me. So far I'm pretty impressed. Running a fiio lod out of a 5th gen ipod. I haven't had a chance to try any of my better cans so far...just a pair of vmoda m80's that I use in my portable rig. The m80's highs have never really impressed me, but have been tolerable for on-the-go listening. The c5 has added some detail to the upper registry of the m80's. There's definitely an improvement over running straight from the ipod. I do wish I did not purchase the 90 degree lod cable as it blocks the buttons...
   
   
  When I have a chance I look forward to trying this out on the beyer t90's. Hopefully they won't demand too much power.


----------



## mrbigsby

Heard back from John again today, and i must say again and again, and again-again... JDS labs, and John specifically is an absolute credit to the industry. Both he and Billy (Noisy Motel) have been in constant contact regarding the unfortunate luck i had in receiving one unit from the small batch of anodising mishaps. Both John and Billy have by far the best customer service in a field that in my experience so far, already has a noticeably high bar for customer service. I feel like i should be sending these guys gifts or something, its amazing.
   
  Its worth buying something of these companies purely for the experience of dealing with someone who genuinely cares about their customers- true luxury treatment!
   
  I sing Noisy Motels praises quite a bit, as i buy there a lot, they remember my name (and even my wifes!) and am always left feeling satisfied and well cared for. But this is my first time dealing JDS labs directly, and i was again blown away. Not many more ways to say that these guys *ROCK*.
   
  Thank you both so very much for going *well beyond* what was expected.


----------



## audionewbi

Billy from Noisy motel is an absolute joy to buy things from. One afternoon him and I had a nice 30 minutes conversation just on a random headphone and music issues. He is not just a sales person, he is actually is passionate about music. 
   
  I have bought two other product from JDS production line and never had an issue and their activity and reaction to this issue has been more than fair. Other companies should learn from them. 
  Quote: 





mrbigsby said:


> Heard back from John again today, and i must say again and again, and again-again... JDS labs, and John specifically is an absolute credit to the industry. Both he and Billy (Noisy Motel) have been in constant contact regarding the unfortunate luck i had in receiving one unit from the small batch of anodising mishaps. Both John and Billy have by far the best customer service in a field that in my experience so far, already has a noticeably high bar for customer service. I feel like i should be sending these guys gifts or something, its amazing.
> 
> Its worth buying something of these companies purely for the experience of dealing with someone who genuinely cares about their customers- true luxury treatment!
> 
> ...


----------



## miceblue

Woah, I just found a great pairing with the C5. I'm listening to INXS's "The Swing" album and the K 701 pairs quite nicely with the C5 for this album. The slightly smaller soundstange makes the center imaging a bit better/less wide/more realistic-sounding, and the slightly more forward mids sound great for the vocals compared to the O2.


----------



## Gradyoactive

How does the bass boost compare to the cmoyBB's bass boost?


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Nice impressions *nOtEcH*!
> 
> I have a question about the ISP programmer.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Try Adafruit's USBTiny drivers for Win7. I haven't had success with Sparkfun's drivers or workarounds on Win7 x64. Drivers are the biggest battle.
   
  Switch C5 on after connecting the USBTiny. Then from Arduino, use File-->Upload Using Programmer. Its power light will remain off, but that supplies +5V power to the Atmega168.


----------



## asak

People with an AD8620 C5, any impressions on the sound?


----------



## illusioned

asak said:


> People with an AD8620 C5, any impressions on the sound?




when i just received it and tried it out, it seemed a little treble happy but now is more subdued such that it is not piercing my ears now (120 hours). Lower volume thud when turning on (according to john). Cant compare to the 2227 one cos i dont have one. 

in summary, tighter,punchier bass, slightly (just a tiny little) more emphasis in mids, extended high compared to my fiio e6


----------



## leg-ranger

If anybody who currently has one and wants to sell it, pm me. I missed the boat on the pre-order.


----------



## illusioned

leg-ranger said:


> If anybody who currently has one and wants to sell it, pm me. I missed the boat on the pre-order.




you can still order it haha. its the same price and you get to choose a custom art :0


----------



## jonbmet

So tried the C5 with a pair of Beyerdynamic T90's tonight using gen 5 ipod and fiio lod cable. Listened to a few different songs (Fagen "IGY", Satriani "Always with You Always with Me", Deep Purple "Child in Time", Cake "No Wheels", Afro Cuban Allstars "Amor Verdadero", SRV "Texas Flood", Oysterhead "Radon Balloon"). 
   
  All of the music was missing a good deal of mid levels. In Radon Balloon there are bells which usually 'ring' clearly and sound realistic coming out of my ipod or Schiit amp. They lost their realness using the C5. SRV's guitar lost its twang tone that he's known for. Also, I have to turn the amp up pretty far to drive the T90's and the noise floor is pretty loud at that level. These cans do not pair well with this amp.
   
  Oddly the T90's sound better directly out of the ipod jack. Clarity and detail are better and the soundstage sounds more realistic. This doesn't really make sense to me.
   
  I'm surprised how much better the Vmoda M80's sound with this amp compared to the T90's. The C5 really opened up the M80's all around. Before trying them with the C5 I wasn't entirely impressed with them. Playing most of the same songs mentioned above through them they really shined. I can't say enough about the C5 pushing the M80's. Its a great match. I definitely have a great portable rig using the Ipod 5th gen > fiio lod > JDS C5 > Vmoda M80.
   
  Someone 'borrowed' my 1/8" adapter. As soon as I get it back I'll try the amp out with some Grado 325's. I have a feeling they'll pair a little better than the T90's due to their lower impedance.


----------



## audionewbi

To my year the C5 is little on the bright side. It has less than 10 hours of burning in so still working on it, is this something that anyone else encountered?


----------



## jonbmet

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> To my year the C5 is little on the bright side. It has less than 10 hours of burning in so still working on it, is this something that anyone else encountered?


 
   


 Yes. Which is probably why I like it with the M80's. Their highs are lacking.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> To my year the C5 is little on the bright side. It has less than 10 hours of burning in so still working on it, is this something that anyone else encountered?


 
  (the first amp listed in each bullet-point has the advantage, in my opinion; the order of bullet points is irrelevant)
  * Sound:

 O2 gives the sense of a larger soundstage with more air between instruments; C5 sounds more boxed-in
 O2 sounds a bit more dynamic; C5 sounds a little duller (not boring dull, but instruments don't sound as rich)
 O2 has a smoother treble (I don't think smoother is the right word for this, nor is rolled-off, but it's not as fatiguing compared to the C5); C5 sounds a tad bit brighter
 C5 has a midrange that is is a tad bit more forward and engaging; O2 sounds more laid-back


----------



## gkanai

Just picked up a tester of the Venture Craft DD Socket 1 portable DAC to pair with the C5. Will also test with my ODAC and my O2.


----------



## audionewbi

Thanks guys, I will be listening more in detail once I have 200 hours of burning in. 
  Quote: 





jonbmet said:


>


 
   
  Quote: 





miceblue said:


>


 
   
  Quote: 





gkanai said:


> Just picked up a tester of the Venture Craft DD Socket 1 portable DAC to pair with the C5. Will also test with my ODAC and my O2.


 
  Looking forward to your impression. I also have a DD Socket 1. I like how the CD and DD 1 stack on top of each other. Can you let me know which edition of the DD socket 1 you have?


----------



## jonbmet

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> Thanks guys, I will be listening more in detail once I have 200 hours of burning in.
> 
> 
> Looking forward to your impression. I also have a DD Socket 1. I like how the CD and DD 1 stack on top of each other. Can you let me know which edition of the DD socket 1 you have?


 
   


 I'm interested in this DAC too. Any review on how it pairs with the C5 will be appreciated. This may be a stupid question and not specific to the C5. If I'm using a LOD to feed an amp will my ipod's battery last longer? Seems like since it's not pushing the headphones it would consume less power...


----------



## gkanai

The DD Socket 1 I am borrowing is the TI OPA 627 model.

http://www.ti.com/product/opa627


----------



## luisdent

Is it possible that some users who find the c5 to be bright might actually just be used to amps that are lacking in brightness? I don't find the c5 bright with any phones. It is bright in the sense that it sounds accurate with treble though, just not any brighter than neutral to my ears. But I assume this might change with different phones and perhaps impedance and power handling? Perhaps those sort of things can change the sound if they vary enough? I know the c5 is less than 2 ohms, but I just mean driving capability and such...

It doesn't sound that much different than my iPods do frequency wise, and iPods measure very flat. Instead it sounds cleaner with more clarity (not brightness) and perhaps better dynamics. And much more power. Just a thought. Has anyone done any measurements themselves by chance? It's probably too early, but just thought id ask...


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





jonbmet said:


> I'm interested in this DAC too. Any review on how it pairs with the C5 will be appreciated. This may be a stupid question and not specific to the C5. If I'm using a LOD to feed an amp will my ipod's battery last longer? Seems like since it's not pushing the headphones it would consume less power...


 
  Just to make it clear DD socket 1 is an iDevice DAC, it is not a DAC for your computer. It can charge your iDevice battery and hence prolong its battery however the downside is that it will reduce its own battery life. So it can be useful if you want to listen to high quality music via your phone but need your phone battery.
   
  I am doing extensive batter testing on DD, the charge time is 5 hours give or take 30 minute, so that could be a factor for some!

 More to come by end of the week.


----------



## audionewbi

I dont think that is the case for me as I own and love my rocoo BA which has a reputation to be bright. I also enjoy my EX1000 which is also said to have a treble spike. I do not mind the C5 that much however the treble seems to be a lot when paired with HFI 780 but than again ultrasone is famous for its harsh treble. 
  Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Is it possible that some users who find the c5 to be bright might actually just be used to amps that are lacking in brightness? I don't find the c5 bright with any phones. It is bright in the sense that it sounds accurate with treble though, just not any brighter than neutral to my ears. But I assume this might change with different phones and perhaps impedance and power handling? Perhaps those sort of things can change the sound if they vary enough? I know the c5 is less than 2 ohms, but I just mean driving capability and such...
> 
> It doesn't sound that much different than my iPods do frequency wise, and iPods measure very flat. Instead it sounds cleaner with more clarity (not brightness) and perhaps better dynamics. And much more power. Just a thought. Has anyone done any measurements themselves by chance? It's probably too early, but just thought id ask...


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





gkanai said:


> The DD Socket 1 I am borrowing is the TI OPA 627 model.
> 
> http://www.ti.com/product/opa627


 
  Nice, I wanted to get the OPA 627 but I heard that the 627 needs near perfect board design and therefore I was skeptic about it. I have the muses01 edition.


----------



## luisdent

audionewbi said:


> I dont think that is the case for me as I own and love my rocoo BA which has a reputation to be bright. I also enjoy my EX1000 which is also said to have a treble spike. I do not mind the C5 that much however the treble seems to be a lot when paired with HFI 780 but than again ultrasone is famous for its harsh treble.




Do you mean the c5 does make them brighter to you? Or that they are already bright?


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Do you mean the c5 does make them brighter to you? Or that they are already bright?


 
  What I meant is they are already bright and they come brighter from C5. I think I am a treble head but with those headphones the treble becomes a tad bit higher than what I like. However once again I have not listen to it the way I normally do, it could have been my tired ears as I listen to them late at night and i had a long day all the three time I paired them with C5.
   
  So far the CK100PRO seem to have a magical synergy with C5.


----------



## leg-ranger

Yea, I know that. They are back logged until the middle of next month.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> What I meant is they are already bright and they come brighter from C5. I think I am a treble head but with those headphones the treble becomes a tad bit higher than what I like. However once again I have not listen to it the way I normally do, it could have been my tired ears as I listen to them late at night and i had a long day all the three time I paired them with C5.
> 
> So far the CK100PRO seem to have a magical synergy with C5.


 
   
  Ah, I see.  Give it time.  Your brain needs to adjust too.


----------



## jseaber

luisdent said:


> Is it possible that some users who find the c5 to be bright might actually just be used to amps that are lacking in brightness? I don't find the c5 bright with any phones. It is bright in the sense that it sounds accurate with treble though, just not any brighter than neutral to my ears. But I assume this might change with different phones and perhaps impedance and power handling? Perhaps those sort of things can change the sound if they vary enough? I know the c5 is less than 2 ohms, but I just mean driving capability and such...
> 
> It doesn't sound that much different than my iPods do frequency wise, and iPods measure very flat. Instead it sounds cleaner with more clarity (not brightness) and perhaps better dynamics. And much more power. Just a thought. Has anyone done any measurements themselves by chance? It's probably too early, but just thought id ask...


   
  iPods have higher output impedance than C5. Standard frequency response measurements don't account for this, so moving to a device with a different output impedance will change one's impression of a headphone's darkness/brightness. At 600 ohms, I suspect jonbmet is pushing C5 too hard. Output-Z shouldn't matter here. A lack of sufficient output power to drive peaks will impact the listening experience.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





jseaber said:


>


 
   
  Do you have have a list of their impedances?  I've only found that my 5th gen is .7ohms from some japanese blog page.  The classic is around 7ohm i believe.  I can't find any real data on this anywhere though....


----------



## jseaber

No list, just have a few measurements in memory from reliable sources (NwAvGuy, etc.).


----------



## luisdent

jseaber said:


> No list, just have a few measurements in memory from reliable sources (NwAvGuy, etc.).




I believe you. I could just never find a source. I can tell by ear though that my 5th gen touch is less than a few ohms. It doesn't color my earphones that are succeptable to output impedance like my classic does a bit. Very impressive. I'd say it is probably the .7 or so I read about. Unfortunately it has a very slight highest treble drop. I found a graph verifying what I always thought I heard as well. It makes the touch sound less high res in micro details. the c5 fixes that with the line out though 

Anyway, a bit off topic.


----------



## ClieOS

Here is a list of output impedance for different devices: http://monoadc.blog64.fc2.com/blog-entry-99.html
   
  It is not uncommon to find 1~3ohm on iDevice. Sometime they get better over generation and sometime worst, but overall still respectable.


----------



## luisdent

clieos said:


> Here is a list of output impedance for different devices: http://monoadc.blog64.fc2.com/blog-entry-99.html
> 
> It is not uncommon to find 1~3ohm on iDevice. Sometime they get better over generation and sometime worst, but overall still respectable.




Thanks clieos that is the exact list I was referring to!! It lists the 5th touch as .75 

seems very good...


----------



## adamlr

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Here is a list of output impedance for different devices: http://monoadc.blog64.fc2.com/blog-entry-99.html
> 
> It is not uncommon to find 1~3ohm on iDevice. Sometime they get better over generation and sometime worst, but overall still respectable.


 

 thats golden. cheers


----------



## 72bug

Hello all! Newbie here. I received my red C5 last week and a half ago and I am pairing it with my Grado SR225's and SR80i. The only other amp I could compare the C5 to is the Cmoy BB which turned me on to the headphone amplification pathway. The C5 is indeed a great buy.
   
  I am in the market for IEMs with a budget within $100 - $150. I hear good things about HF5 Ety's and I was wondering how it sounds with the C5. 
   
  I am open to other IEM recommendations too! As for what I am looking for as far as sound is concerned, I am leaning towards accuracy.
   
  Thank you! I am all ears!


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





72bug said:


> Hello all! Newbie here. I received my red C5 last week and a half ago and I am pairing it with my Grado SR225's and SR80i. The only other amp I could compare the C5 to is the Cmoy BB which turned me on to the headphone amplification pathway. The C5 is indeed a great buy.
> 
> I am in the market for IEMs with a budget within $100 - $150. I hear good things about HF5 Ety's and I was wondering how it sounds with the C5.
> 
> ...


 
  maybe have a look at DBA-02 MKII?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





72bug said:


> Hello all! Newbie here. I received my red C5 last week and a half ago and I am pairing it with my Grado SR225's and SR80i. The only other amp I could compare the C5 to is the Cmoy BB which turned me on to the headphone amplification pathway. The C5 is indeed a great buy.
> 
> I am in the market for IEMs with a budget within $100 - $150. I hear good things about HF5 Ety's and I was wondering how it sounds with the C5.
> 
> ...


 
  How do the Grado's sound with the C5?


----------



## BB 808

The JDS Labs C5 and Grado SR80i has a smooth tonal balance and a natural, musical quality, excellent stereo imaging. With bass boost on, it's all just right.


----------



## 72bug

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> How do the Grado's sound with the C5?


 
   
  I think it's a great match.  As for the SR225, there is space between the instruments. It's like you can actually tell how many instruments are playing and you can grab them in your head. Having spent years playing in a band, when I am playing with my band,  I actually know which person is playing which part - it's like that. 
   
  I feel that there's no coloration too, neutral, just the right amount of bass. I never had the need to engage the bass boost. 
   
  I listen to an ipod classic, lossless files, with a fiio line-out, to Grado 225. Mostly, classic rock and jazz - Led Zeppelin, Cream, John Coltrane, Mahavishnu Orchestra, etc.
   
  I am yet to try it out with streaming music. Do you think a DAC would make a noticeable improvement?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





72bug said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  An external DAC can help depending on how good your current DAC is. I have an ODAC and it improves the clarity of instrument separation and widens the soundstage a bit compared to my other DAC's, but it's not a huge improvement.


----------



## JiPod

I've been really enjoying the C5. I've paired it with my M-100 and SE535 Special Edition, finding that my SE535 Special Edition is lacking bottom end in comparison to my M-100.

Does anyone have a suggestion for a Universal IEM that mimics the M-100's sound quality & signature?


----------



## 72bug

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> An external DAC can help depending on how good your current DAC is. I have an ODAC and it improves the clarity of instrument separation and widens the soundstage a bit compared to my other DAC's, but it's not a huge improvement.


 
   
  I am planning to purchase the ODAC too. I think when streaming music from a computer, using the ODAC + C5 would give me the best musical experience as compared to streaming music without it. Right now, without a DAC, I notice the same thing as you notice - less clarity and smaller sound stage.


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





72bug said:


> I am planning to purchase the ODAC too. I think when streaming music from a computer, using the ODAC + C5 would give me the best musical experience as compared to streaming music without it. Right now, without a DAC, I notice the same thing as you notice - less clarity and smaller sound stage.


 
  ODAC and C5 gives me better listening experience than ODAC + O2. They stack up perfectly on top of each other. You simply cannot go wrong with ODAC!


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





72bug said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Oh wait, what did you mean by streaming your music? I thought you meant just play your music through your computer in your original post. Technically you're still using a DAC if you hear stuff through your headphones since the DAC coverts digital bits (0's and 1's) to an electrical analog output (voltage and current to your headphones to move air).
   
   
  Quote: 





jipod said:


> I've been really enjoying the C5. I've paired it with my M-100 and SE535 Special Edition, finding that my SE535 Special Edition is lacking bottom end in comparison to my M-100.
> 
> Does anyone have a suggestion for a Universal IEM that mimics the M-100's sound quality & signature?


 
  I have very little experience with earphones....I would have suggested the SE215 since that's the only other earphone I've heard other than the CX-300, but you own their higher-end SE535 model.


----------



## JiPod

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> I have very little experience with earphones....I would have suggested the SE215 since that's the only other earphone I've heard other than the CX-300, but you own their higher-end SE535 model.


 
  Thank you for your suggestion.  Interesting how you suggested a dynamic driver IEM (opposed to a multi BA IEM).  Will actually give that and some hybrids a try.


----------



## gkanai

Quote: 





jipod said:


> I've been really enjoying the C5. I've paired it with my M-100 and SE535 Special Edition, finding that my SE535 Special Edition is lacking bottom end in comparison to my M-100.


 
   
  I'm using many of the same components. C5 & O2. M-100 & HD 25 1-ii, SE535 and F-111.


----------



## JiPod

Quote: 





gkanai said:


> I'm using many of the same components. C5 & O2. M-100 & HD 25 1-ii, SE535 and F-111.


 
  Have you found a universal IEM very close to the M-100 in sound quality & signature?


----------



## akash neagi

Quote: 





jipod said:


> Have you found a universal IEM very close to the M-100 in sound quality & signature?


 
  I think XBA-4 is close......
  I'm not sure though I heard them some time ago....


----------



## gkanai

Quote: 





jipod said:


> Have you found a universal IEM very close to the M-100 in sound quality & signature?


 
   
  Not yet.

 The SE535 and F-111 are neither much like the M-100.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





gkanai said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  What do you think of the C5 next to the O2? I'm just kind of curious and to see whether or not I'm hearing things accurately when comparing the two. XD


----------



## panteraman

The base boost really kicks ***** with Linkin Park & Metallica.  I'll have to compare with my pa2v2.


----------



## luisdent

I've been listening to my c5 non stop since I got it. I just thought I'd connect my earphones directly to the iPod touch 5g and I was shocked how much worse it sounds. Don't get me wrong, it isn't bad, but the c5 via ipod line out is much better. To an average listener the differences may not be great, but to any audiophiles I'd like to try and explain the difference for anyone considering the c5 who has an iPod.

First, I believe, as graphed, the iPod is typically a very flat frequency response. In this regard the c5 sounds almost identical. I'll be writing primarily using the etymotic er4s as my earphone as I find that to be the most accurate I've heard.

Overall, the most immediate obvious difference I hear is the distinctness of things. Instruments on the iPod sound slightly veiled and soft. On the c5 instruments sound more crisp, dynamic and realistic. Not brighter per se, more like higher resolution. The bass and treble almost shine through better because they sound more solid and precise.

The er4s sounds sort of soft in the bass on the iPod, however this is a 100ohm earphone and is pushing the iPods power output at almost full volume to full volume with every song. So this probably introduces slight distortion levels among other negative things that might reduce apparent detail or firmness in the sound. I'm not sure. But I am sure that the er4s is nothing short of incredible on the c5.

It hits hard and punchy when needed, and always fast and clear. I find that I don't even use the bass boost. In fact, there have been a few times i actually checked to see if I had the bass boost on accidentally because it sounded so good. I did not. So awesome. Listening to owl city the bass lines come in very full and rounded. They hit tight and so perfectly low and subby when necessary. I never thought the er4s could have such incredible bass. If you get a good seal and the c5 you are in for a treat. Unless you are a bass head. But oh wait... Hit the bass boost button! I can't even listen to owl city with the boost on. It sounds incredibly good and barely alters anything but the bass. The highs and mids remain very transparent, however it is just too far above neutral for my tastes. Bass boost off provides an extremely neutral but incredible bass. Nice!

The treble is also fast and crisp and sounds ruler flat to me. It really allows depth, airiness and realism to show through on any well recorded tracks and lets poorly recorded tracks sound true to their quality. The details sound very crisp and precise. When mixed this way, instruments sound incredibly forward and in your face with that sort of presence that makes them pop out of the soundstage. Like Steely Dan and frou frou recordings and such where instruments almost sound like they're on a layer above the music, yet not bad like actually being on a separate layer, but more sitting on top of the music or standing out from the music seamlessly.

The is a great sense of depth when necessary also. The space between instruments is great and everything is easy to pick out in any song. Fabulous separation. The er4s sound wider than they do on the iPod alone. Primarily because of the added sense of resolution. It really brings out the details to each side. Im not sure if the channel separation is actually any wider than the iPod but I get the sense of it being wider.

The mids are perfectly neutral. I have never once thought about them at all. Perfect. That is transparent to me. Instruments sound real and full. I never think the mids are too forward or recessed. I simply don't need to. They always sit perfectly where they need to be. Steve Wilson's new raven album sounds phenomenal.

I find this combo to be just incredibly enjoyable to listen to, accurate and worth every penny. I've spent so much money on my home theatre and studio. And while earphones differ from speakers in some ways, I feel this is the closest thing to a reference home theatre or studio monitor ever heard in my ears. I highly recommend the c5 if you own the er4s. It is a noticeable upgrade to the iPod. Especially once you're used to the c5 and you switch back to the ipod.

I also highly recommend the er4s. But if you do get them with only an iPod you truly aren't getting the best out of them. I've ready many people say it before, and its true. A good amp makes them shine. Tighter more punchy bass, more detailed clarity, better separation and depth and a perfectly clean precise sound.

I highly recommend both. I've been on a long iem search, and jds and etymotic have completely satisfied me. Both gave incredible customer service as well. John goes far above and beyond more than you know. And etymotic quickly responded by having a tech/engineer call me back promptly to discuss custom tips. He was extremely knowledgable and I never felt rushed. He talked for a while and made me feel like he actually cared that I end up with custom tips that I enjoy.

Anyway, not to get off topic, but both are worth every penny and i believe every penny is going to a great company. 

From one super happy listener...


----------



## luisdent

.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Spoiler: Review
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Wow, fantastic review!


----------



## ostewart

Impressive review, glad to hear you've found your prefect setup, for now anyway. Keep enjoying, I need to get my review up soon.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> Impressive review, glad to hear you've found your prefect setup, *for now anyway*. Keep enjoying, I need to get my review up soon.


 
   
  That's always the case isn't it?  I think this is it for years to come for me though.   I have nothing I can find about them I don't like.
   
  The closest thing to a problem I've had actually happened today.  I got the triple flange ear tip stuck in my ear.  Ahhhh!  It was deep.  I couldn't get a hold of any of it with my hand.  I wasn't too worried, because it isn't like it can really go in further without being forced, but it was still not an optimal situation.
   
  I ended up pulling out my leatherman and using the pliers to pull it out slowly.  All good now.  Not sure what happened, because I always pull them out while lifting my upper ear, opening my mouth a bit and being careful, rotating if necessary.  It seems like perhaps the openings have loosened with use.  I'm not really worried about it.  But I honestly never thought it would happen to me.
   
  I've been strongly considering custom tips (80% there), so maybe this is a sign to get them?


----------



## ostewart

Custom tips or try something new like full customs. I've had to pull a triple flange out with tweezers before, not good.

I have written down notes comparing C5 to O2 and C421 AD8620. Now to type up full review.


----------



## Mannes

Yay my amp arrived


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> Custom tips or try something new like full customs. I've had to pull a triple flange out with tweezers before, not good.
> 
> I have written down notes comparing C5 to O2 and C421 AD8620. Now to type up full review.


 
  Ronaldo or Messi? Oh, I have  forgotten that you're not into soccer.
   
  Off-topic
  Please, hurry up with that Review (note the capital 'R', like in *R*onaldo)


----------



## luisdent

Has anyone figured out how to use an ipod that has a lightning connector with the C5, or probably any portable amp?  I've bought two adapters now, and neither allow me to stack the devices.  They could technically be forced, but it results in a very high amount of jack/connector stress, so I wouldn't plug it in like that.
   
  There is a smaller lightning adapter, but A) it's $40 [insane] and B) it doesn't really help, because even holding the cables where the adapter would be still results in too much stress.
   
   

   

   

   
  As far as I can tell, they don't make a lightning line-out adapter on its own.  I might just go back to the ipod classic.  And I'd get a crap load more space.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Has anyone figured out how to use an ipod that has a lightning connector with the C5, or probably any portable amp?  I've bought two adapters now, and neither allow me to stack the devices.  They could technically be forced, but it results in a very high amount of jack/connector stress, so I wouldn't plug it in like that.
> 
> There is a smaller lightning adapter, but A) it's $40 [insane] and B) it doesn't really help, because even holding the cables where the adapter would be still results in too much stress.
> 
> ...


 
  To be downright, perfectly honest, I don't think it's worth the hassle to use a Lightning adaptor and using a 3.5 mm interconnect would be easier without killing the sound quality too much. The new generation of iDevices actually sound pretty good on their own, so in my opinion, it wouldn't worth the hassle, nor money, to invest in a Lightning adaptor. I don't know about you, but the whole Lighting port thing has caused more trouble than it's worth in the audiophile community from what I've seen.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> To be downright, perfectly honest, I don't think it's worth the hassle to use a Lightning adaptor and using a 3.5 mm interconnect would be easier without killing the sound quality too much. The new generation of iDevices actually sound pretty good on their own, so in my opinion, it wouldn't worth the hassle, nor money, to invest in a Lightning adaptor. I don't know about you, but the whole Lighting port thing has caused more trouble than it's worth in the audiophile community from what I've seen.





   
  The problem is that I found my ipod classic to be excellent sound quality, and while the touch 5g is "very good" sound quality, I've always noticed a sort of treble rolloff in the very high upper treble range.  I used to think it was my connections and cables or something.  When I connected it via 3.5mm to my car system it just sounded wrong.  I bought the lightning cable and the car sounds perfect.
   
  Before I got my fiio adapter I used a high quality 3.5mm to the C5, and it did sound good, but it is a bit crisper with the lightning adapter.  While I think most people wouldn't probably even notice it, it's enough to really bug me.  It takes away a little of that crisp distinctness of things.  I always kept thinking "why doesn't this ipod sound as good as my classic did?"  I know it isn't the ipod or the dac, because the line-out is perfect, as the classic was.  So it could only be the amp, which transfers the already rolled off treble issue to the C5.
   
  It may not actually be the frequencies being rolled off, perhaps theres more distortion or something masking them.  I have no idea.  But it just sound worse than my classic did to my ears. And this isn't something I'm hearing because I "think" I hear it.  There have been numerous times I was unaware I was listening to the touch, because I forgot I had it when it was new and would think "why doesn't this sound as good", and then I'd realize i had the new touch and think "what? could it really be worse?"  I have done a side by side comparison (my classic works, but only syncs 10 songs because the drive is failing).  I found the same results doing side-by-side testing.  The classic just sounds a bit crisper.
   
  It's sort of crazy no one has created a lightening line out cable at all.  There really isn't anything special about the cable.  There are no dongle or components that I can detect.  It just converts the pin layout to a 30-pin female connector.  So why hasn't someone just made a 3.5mm connector wired to the line out cables?
   
  Anyhow, I wish I could live with the 3.5 situation, but I can't. :-/  If I get another classic, which i'm considering for a bunch of reasons, i'll use a 3.5 or my l-shape fiio bent and wrapped to avoid tensoin.  I think the 5g touch has failed in a few ways for music.  I realize it is a multi-function device, but there are some dissapointing downfalls of the device.  But I digress.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  iPod Touch 5G measures pretty well actually:
http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/ipod-touch-5g/audio-quality.htm
  -0.04 dB is quite small for the frequency response, but yes there seems to be distortion too.


----------



## audionewbi

I got to give it 30 more hour of burning in and make my mind up after that. It is a very power amp for sure however to my ears it has a forward sound signature to it which I find too forward at times.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> iPod Touch 5G measures pretty well actually:
> http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/ipod-touch-5g/audio-quality.htm
> -0.04 dB is quite small for the frequency response, but yes there seems to be distortion too.


 
   
  I saw that graph, and I thought that indicated a rolloff actually, but the classic has a similar response.  I'm not sure what is causing it, but just lacks a certain distinction or crispness.  I'm only talking about in the order of say 2% maybe, but I still hear it.   I got the C5 to improve the sound (which it does) so I don't want to put that output into the C5 knowing this. 
   
  I'll try to do a critical side-by-side comparison of the two connections, but without a double-blind test I'm not sure how accurate it will be.  I'm very good at blanking my mind for things like this, but still, some would argue it isn't a proper testing method.  But I'll let you know what I think.


----------



## luisdent

Crap.  I just posted a long comparison and accidentally deleted it when I was going to edit it.
   
  Basically I said it wasn't as good.  Ha ha.  It sounds more full with the 3.5 but not in a good way.  As if the extra fullness isn't really better quality.  The line-out seems to breathe better.  That's the best I can describe it.
   
  It might be my brain, but it sounds better to me... :-o  Anyone else have any thought on why that might be?
   
  Is it double amping introducing more distortion or something?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Wow, that was a fast test.  There is a noticeable difference I can't even describe.  It's like the 2.5 method makes everything sound louder.  Not as in raised volume.  As in things sound like they were recorded at high levels or "hotter".  It's really strange actually.  It's almost like there are more mids too, as though some things are more in your face, but not in a good way really, just in a different way.
> 
> The line-out definitely sounds better.  Everything sounds more snappy and there is a noticeable improvement in depth between everything.  As though the music is higher resolution still.  I'm not sure of all the technical details, but I can say it's a large enough difference double blind testing isn't even necessary. ha.  It's like the 3.5 method makes everything sound more filled in, louder and fuller, but in a bad way.  As though what is being filled in isn't really good music data or sonics, but rather.... I'm not really sure.  It's like the music is more full and full bodied, but just sounds less detailed and breathes less if that makes sense.
> 
> I'll stick with the line out.


 
  Yeah I noticed that the line out provides a more spacious, natural-sounding stage and instruments are a bit clearer than 3.5 mm out. If I were mobile listening, I don't think I would be able to tell though.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Yeah I noticed that the line out provides a more spacious, natural-sounding stage and instruments are a bit clearer than 3.5 mm out. If I were mobile listening, I don't think I would be able to tell though.


 
   
  Hey you recovered my post!  Great timing.  It was only up for like 1 minute. haha.
   
  Yes I completely agree.  Probably wouldn't be able to tell in most situations, but I do a lot of listening at home where the isolation brings noise pretty much to zero.  So I notice it.  Spacious is a good word to describe it.


----------



## miceblue

I'll write my review after the chaos of finals week has settle and I get the chance to re-program some things with the C5.


----------



## miceblue

I somehow recall someone saying it takes ~5 hours to completely charge the C5.
  My C5's battery ran out of juice on the bus again today so I came home at around dinner time (18:30) and I plugged-in the C5 to my laptop. 2 hours and < 41 minutes later I check the C5 and it's fully charged! I am pleasantly surprised.


----------



## luisdent

miceblue said:


> I somehow recall someone saying it takes ~5 hours to completely charge the C5.
> My C5's battery ran out of juice on the bus again today so I came home at around dinner time (18:30) and I plugged-in the C5 to my laptop. 2 hours and < 41 minutes later I check the C5 and it's fully charged! I am pleasantly surprised.




I thought that too, I've charged mine fully twice, and I didn't time it, but it was definitely not 5 hours. If I had to guess I'd say about 2.5 to 3 hours. Maybe the 5 hours is if you're charging it while you use it?


----------



## Craigster75

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Crap.  I just posted a long comparison and accidentally deleted it when I was going to edit it.
> 
> Basically I said it wasn't as good.  Ha ha.  It sounds more full with the 3.5 but not in a good way.  As if the extra fullness isn't really better quality.  The line-out seems to breathe better.  That's the best I can describe it.
> 
> ...


 
  It's not your brain.  Just as a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link, double amping limits the SQ, frequency response and performance to that of the lowest quality amp in the chain.  Line out bypasses the lower quality amp in your player so that you can enjoy the full performance of your external amp.


----------



## skyron

Hello,
   
  The C5 is very interesting !
   
  But I have a question for the owners :
  I actually use a Denon AH-D600 and need a portable amp.
  I think the C5 could be good pairing with D600.
   
  But I have one question about it :
  with a headphone that goes really deep in bass, is the C5 can handle these deep basses correctly ?
   
  Tks


----------



## akash neagi

Did anyone use their C5 to drive a HD800????
  I really like the C5 but I can't find out if it can drive a HD800....


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





akash neagi said:


> Did anyone use their C5 to drive a HD800????
> I really like the C5 but I can't find out if it can drive a HD800....


 
  Dont expect too much. The rule of thumb is that if you are spending 1300 USD on a can you should be ready to spend at least half as much on an amplifier for it. Having said that I think C5 should be fine for HD700,HD800 I am skeptical about.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> Dont expect too much. The rule of thumb is that if you are spending 1300 USD on a can you should be ready to spend at least half as much on an amplifier for it. Having said that I think C5 should be fine for HD700,HD800 I am skeptical about.


 
   
  This is a simple matter of output power. To reach 115dB:
   
*HD-700: *100db/mW --> ~*32mW *minimum @ 150ohm
*HD-800:* 102db/mW --> ~*24mW *minimum @ 300ohm
   
   
*C5 *Output @ 150 ohms: *74mW*
*C5 *Output @ 600 ohms: *28mW* (so even higher at 300 ohm).
   
  These are quick approximations. Please correct me if I've pulled bad headphone specs from Google. Headphone manufacturers are shy about sensitivity units, and I'm seeing the same ratings for HD-700/800 in both dB/mW and dB/V...


----------



## audionewbi

I just did not want the member to purchase the C5 only to pair it with HD800 and not be that happy about as I believe C5 design was more towards IEM and portable gears not transportable cans. I think from the reviews and my journey on head-fi "loudness" and "synergy" seems to be two different things. 

 By design I think HD800 is still following the old 120 Ohm standard.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> I just did not want the member to purchase the C5 only to pair it with HD800 and not be that happy about as I believe C5 design was more towards IEM and portable gears not transportable cans. I think from the reviews and my journey on head-fi "loudness" and "synergy" seems to be two different things.
> 
> By design I think HD800 is still following the old 120 Ohm standard.


 
   
  Of course, power is only a portion of the picture! I take subjective impressions as seriously as you guys. Ultimately, we've found discussions of headphone+amp synergy to correlate to objective specifications. Tyll posted a great article this week explaining the bulk these correlations.
   
  The "120 ohm standard" isn't taken seriously now or even a few years ago. Here's an excerpt from a blog to which I cannot link (NwAvGuy):
   
   


> I’ve also had a Sennheiser representative tell me they design their audiophile and portable headphones for *zero ohm sources*.


----------



## audionewbi

Thanks for the link, I want to make a clear that by no means I want to take away from the merit of C5. I have paired my C5 with a source that is 5 times it price that is how much I value it.  I am an objective kind of a person myself I care about objective measurements a great deal however I wish there was on amp fits all solution. 
  For example I love how C5 pairs with Ck100pro, the pairing provided me a new reference sound level however with EX-1000 it was not as good of a match.
   
  Looking forward to what JDS will bring to us in futures to come


----------



## Mannes

I have a colorfly c3 connected to the c5 at the moment and I am impressed how good this sounds it sounds more natural to me and with more detail. I have a iPod touch 3g also I will compare it today to see what sounds better to me.


----------



## akash neagi

Thanks guys for the reply.....
Btw I plan on getting a woo audio wa6se for the hd800........
I was just wondering if a C5 can power it if I choose to use it in my portable rig.....
For my permanent portable rig I have a xba3, mdr-1r, srh840 and about to get a hd439......


----------



## nOtEcH

I am using my HD800 (with Moon Audio Black Dragon V2) with the C5 and a 4th gen. iPod touch with a FiiO L3 LOD.
The combo sounds surprisingly good, as I have heard that the HD800's are "amp picky".

The C5 does not sound the same as my headphone amp AURALiC Taurus (~$1799) that is said to sound similar to the amp part of the April Music Eximus DP1 (6moons review) with my network streamer/DAC Linn Akurate DS (~$6800) using some seriously expensive silver interconnects, but I use the portable combo more these days, as I can use it everywhere. In my car. At work (personal office). At home (around the house..mostly at my desk and in my bed). The C5 is in my opinion very musical and a great little amp. And I can play my music loud. And the best part: It is portable!


----------



## 72bug

Hello everyone. I have been very pleased with my C5 with my ipod classic (songs in lossless format) as a source.
   
  My question would be, what are your impressions when streaming music from an itouch or iphone with the C5? Is there a noticeable difference when not using the C5?
   
  Or does it go without saying that - when streaming music (I use Spotify in highest quality mode) the best way is to use an external DAC with C5 to get the best listening experience possible. 
   
  Thank you so much. 
   
  I have already been planning on getting the ODAC to pair with C5 - so if anyone have tried streaming music with this combination, I would appreciate some feedback. Thanks again!


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





72bug said:


> Hello everyone. I have been very pleased with my C5 with my ipod classic (songs in lossless format) as a source.
> 
> My question would be, what are your impressions when streaming music from an itouch or iphone with the C5? Is there a noticeable difference when not using the C5?
> 
> ...


 
  Actually, this was just discussed on the previous page of the thread:
  Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Basically line out with an iDevice adds some space between instruments and makes things a little more crisp/defined. I did some on-the-go testing today and the instrument separation difference is noticeable to me.
  As for double amping, the difference is similar in terms of the instrument separation, but to a lesser extent. It sounds more or less the same with just the headphone plugged-in to the iDevice, at least from my experience.


----------



## rckyosho

Ok I've received a package from JDSlabs and it looks and feels big...At frist I thought John might have made a mistake and has sent me an ODAC unit(wishful thinking
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) but then I recall that Mr. Industrial Designer namizich for JDSlabs has machine up a special end panel for my mod and that John has shipped it out to me.Anyway I've install it and just thought I'd post photos of it.
   

  The package.Looks big doesn't it.
   

  I've also received a box with it which I think is the box used to ship the C5 amp in.
   
   
   

  All installed and ready to use.
   
  Thank you jseaber, Mr.Industrial Designer namizich and all of JDSlabs for this.
    
   
   
  Quote:


miceblue said:


> I somehow recall someone saying it takes ~5 hours to completely charge the C5.
> My C5's battery ran out of juice on the bus again today so I came home at around dinner time (18:30) and I plugged-in the C5 to my laptop. 2 hours and < 41 minutes later I check the C5 and it's fully charged! I am pleasantly surprised.


 
  It always takes me less than 3hrs to charge my unit from zero to full but never really timed it though.
   
   


> Originally Posted by luisdent
> 
> I've been listening to my c5 non stop since I got it.....
> 
> ...


 
   

   
  Nice review there.
   
  Off-topic:- Glad to see another home theatre guy around these parts.Portable stereo listening is indeed enjoyable when your out a about or just around the house but nothing beats the surround sound experience from a well recorded mix of music in 5.1(e.g. DVD-A of Metallica,Blue man Group,..etc.Too bad though the format is dead but Bluray is great too!)


----------



## phrosty

Got my C5 on Wednesday. The package was missing the rubber feet promised on the store page, but this is not a problem as I had planned to mount it to my JDS ODAC. It's an exact fit on the old case -- glad I don't have the new shorter one or I'd have to put it on top and cover up the fancy red goodness. If the ODAC had the USB connector in back to match the C5, it'd be perfect.
   
   

   
I've been using it for 5-8hr daily at work and so far I'm very impressed with it. The channel balance is quite nice compared to the PenguinAmp Royal I was previously using as a portable amp, which would be slightly louder in the left ear at lower volumes. The bass boost sounds like it is either not as strong as the Royal at max, or at different frequencies -- I'll need to check. Either way it's plenty.
   
  My only complaint might be that it's a little too easy to switch between low- and high- gain mode while changing the volume. An LED color for high-gain would also be useful.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





rckyosho said:


> Off-topic:- Glad to see another home theatre guy around these parts.Portable stereo listening is indeed enjoyable when your out a about or just around the house but nothing beats the surround sound experience from a well recorded mix of music in 5.1(e.g. DVD-A of Metallica,Blue man Group,..etc.Too bad though the format is dead but Bluray is great too!)


 
   
  Yeah, it's sad it hasn't caught on more.  My SACD player is barely even used.  I did however just buy the new Steve Wilson album "The Raven That Refused to Sing".  It sounds excellent in 5.1.  Just awesome.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





phrosty said:


> My only complaint might be that it's a little too easy to switch between low- and high- gain mode while changing the volume. An LED color for high-gain would also be useful.


 
   
  Really?  You've actually hit it by accident? :-o  I can't even fake accidentally switch it on.  Mine has to be right in the middle and pushed straight in.  That never happens with mine. =)


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





phrosty said:


> Got my C5 on Wednesday. The package was missing the rubber feet promised on the store page, but this is not a problem as I had planned to mount it to my JDS ODAC. It's an exact fit on the old case -- glad I don't have the new shorter one or I'd have to put it on top and cover up the fancy red goodness. If the ODAC had the USB connector in back to match the C5, it'd be perfect.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That was going to be one of my re-programmed things. Blue LED for high gain, green for low gain.


----------



## DMinor

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> Thanks for the link, I want to make a clear that by no means I want to take away from the merit of C5. I have paired my C5 with a source that is 5 times it price that is how much I value it.  I am an objective kind of a person myself I care about objective measurements a great deal however I wish there was on amp fits all solution.
> For example I love how C5 pairs with Ck100pro, the pairing provided me a new reference sound level *however with EX-1000 it was not as good of a match*.
> 
> Looking forward to what JDS will bring to us in futures to come


 
   
  How does it sound with the EX1000?


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





dminor said:


> How does it sound with the EX1000?


 
  I am still burning in the C5 ( just trying to make sure). I will make up my mind by end of next week.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> That was going to be one of my re-programmed things. Blue LED for high gain, green for low gain.


 
   
  The Blue LED is hardwired to an open-drain status output of the charging IC.
   
  There's an empty spot for a second LED on the board. That pin supports PWM, so you can adjust LED brightness. We can provide a custom endplate and I'm sure I can dig up the code to go with it.


----------



## luisdent

jseaber said:


> The Blue LED is hardwired to an open-drain status output of the charging IC.
> 
> There's an empty spot for a second LED on the board. That pin supports PWM, so you can adjust LED brightness. We can provide a custom endplate and I'm sure I can dig up the code to go with it.




For what it's worth, I think you nailed the power led brightness. It's bright enough to always see, but in bed it isn't so bright to keep my wife up.


----------



## luisdent

A few questions.  I've been double amping my apogee duet into my c5 with my ety er-4s.  It is simply phenomenal.  The duet is already phenomenal, but the 32 ohm impedance attenuates the bass.  No good.  So the c5 acts as an impedance corrector.  Anyway.  I notice that the duet sounds even better than the ipod line out.  Now, the itunes files are lossless and my ipod is 256aac, HOWEVER, i've done a double blind test of lossless vs aac on my ipod, and although i could tell the difference, it was not as big as the difference between the two devices.  It was very hard to tell the difference in most cases between formats.  The devices are easy to tell the difference between.  I don't mean that the differences are great, but rather it's just easier to hear them than the format comparison.
   
  The bass is yet again a little more "firm" and there appears to be more body and thickness to notes, but this time, unlike the ipod, the quality is an improvement.  It doesn't hinder the spaciousness or anything.  It's like it's identical quality wise, but everything almost sounds more speaker like.  I'm just almost in shock at how absolutely awesome the er-4s bass sounds with this setup.  It's still awesome with the ipod, but it's just a bit more firm which really makes it sound great.  Any idea why this would be the case?  Is it possible the duet DAC is that much better than the ipod?  Would an objective DAC maybe give me the same results?  Just curious.  I'm content and loving both setups completely, but the duet/c5 combo is just awesome.  I'll throw some lossless files on my ipod later and listen for a while, but I really don't think it is that (maybe i'm wrong).


----------



## luisdent

Oh!!!  I forgot to show you the incredibly sexy new custom cases John sent me!


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Oh!!!  I forgot to show you the incredibly sexy new faceplates they sent me!


 
  Wow those look really nice! I like the Eye of Ra.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Wow those look really nice! I like the Eye of Ra.


 
   
  For any APP fans   My favorite is the stereotomy.  That is my actual use amp cover. It's so sexy in black.


----------



## miceblue

Man, I'm loving the synergy between the C5 and the K 701. The C5's smaller soundstage does justice for the K 701's odd center imaging.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'm still having trouble getting the pocket programmer to work.
   
  I installed the USBTinyISP driver for Windows 7 [64-bit] using the x86 .exe file in that zip folder, as well as re-naming and moving the .dll file to the directory specified in the README file.
  I also installed the latest version of WinAVR just in case with the detailed instructions.
   
  Opening Arduino and using File -> Upload Using Programmer, I get the following error:
  [In Arduinio, the programmer I'm using is the AVR ISP under Tools -> Programmer]
   


> Binary sketch size: 4,914 bytes (of a 14,336 byte maximum)
> avrdude: ser_open(): can't open device "\\.\COM1": The system cannot find the file specified.


----------



## darkportent

does anyone have any impressions on the combination of C5 with the M100s?  I am really interested in the C5 but i will be mainly using it with the M100s and I am unsure whether there would be a significant enough difference of using a portable amp with such easy to drive headphones... so you think there is a noticeable improvement of the overall sound or treble, mids in particular..? I don't think I would be using the bass boost much since i'm already more than satisfied with the bass sound the M100 delivers...


----------



## rckyosho

jseaber said:


> The Blue LED is hardwired to an open-drain status output of the charging IC.
> 
> There's an empty spot for a second LED on the board. That pin supports PWM, so you can adjust LED brightness. We can provide a custom endplate and I'm sure I can dig up the code to go with it.




So you actually need to buy and solder the second LED than. So what's the LED used and where can I get one.




luisdent said:


> A few questions.  I've been double amping my apogee duet into my c5 with my ety er-4s.  It is simply phenomenal.  The duet is already phenomenal, but the 32 ohm impedance attenuates the bass.  No good.  So the c5 acts as an impedance corrector.  Anyway.  I notice that the duet sounds even better than the ipod line out.  Now, the itunes files are lossless and my ipod is 256aac, HOWEVER, i've done a double blind test of lossless vs aac on my ipod, and although i could tell the difference, it was not as big as the difference between the two devices.  It was very hard to tell the difference in most cases between formats.  The devices are easy to tell the difference between.  I don't mean that the differences are great, but rather it's just easier to hear them than the format comparison.
> 
> The bass is yet again a little more "firm" and there appears to be more body and thickness to notes, but this time, unlike the ipod, the quality is an improvement.  It doesn't hinder the spaciousness or anything.  It's like it's identical quality wise, but everything almost sounds more speaker like.  I'm just almost in shock at how absolutely awesome the er-4s bass sounds with this setup.  It's still awesome with the ipod, but it's just a bit more firm which really makes it sound great.  Any idea why this would be the case?  Is it possible the duet DAC is that much better than the ipod?  Would an objective DAC maybe give me the same results?  Just curious.  I'm content and loving both setups completely, but the duet/c5 combo is just awesome.  I'll throw some lossless files on my ipod later and listen for a while, but I really don't think it is that (maybe i'm wrong).



I've actually tried comparing the C5 with my home stereo speaker/headphone amp that I use for home listening and though the C5 might not be as powerful, level matched it sounds the same! and I was glad that going portable I would still get the same or similar sq. Add the UD-100 DAC that I've compared and sounds even better than my desktop DAC the Citypulse Audio DA-2.03e II, I don't even miss my home setup.It's not only the bass that gets better defined or smooth sounding,the mids and highs all gets much more clearer or louder like you've said.The whole sound just blends so well that you just get into musical listening bliss.This is with the vmoda m-100 though as no matter how good IEMS are, you can't really get the impact,smoothness and sub level sound that full size cans gives you. So IMO, going with a good DAC will definitely improve things.Not all will agree with me on this as some say that adding a better DAC just gives you minor improvements but I'm a believer of the garbage in,garbage out saying so if your source is good than a great amp will just give you good sound but if you've got great source than amplifying with a great amp would definitely yield you great sounding music....the only flaw being it's not forgiving on bad source.





luisdent said:


> Oh!!!  I forgot to show you the incredibly sexy new custom cases John sent me.



I'm jealous..those are nice!


----------



## rckyosho

Double post.


----------



## miceblue

darkportent said:


> does anyone have any impressions on the combination of C5 with the M100s?  I am really interested in the C5 but i will be mainly using it with the M100s and I am unsure whether there would be a significant enough difference of using a portable amp with such easy to drive headphones... so you think there is a noticeable improvement of the overall sound or treble, mids in particular..? I don't think I would be using the bass boost much since i'm already more than satisfied with the bass sound the M100 delivers...




The C5 sounds great with the M-100's. the soundstage opens up a bit, not to the extent of the O2 but it's still pretty spacious. Like what *rckyosho* said, the bass gets more defined and the mids are moved a bit more forward from my listening experience. The highs gain a little more definition too. These comparisons are between the C5 and the iPhone 4S since that's how I use the M-100's (AKA as a portable/mobile setup).

The bass boost is too much, for me, when sitting down in a quiet environment, but it actually works really well when there is a lot of background ambient noise (i.e. in a bus, waiting outside near a busy street, etc.).


----------



## rockcrusher

My first post. I made an account so I could review the c5.
   
  This is my first headphone amp. I had been considering the HP-P1 and some other much higher priced gear, but realized that I'm not likely to be a serious headphone enthusiast at present, so I got to looking at other options. The c421 got excellent reviews and the early reviews of the c5 were good, so I bought one.
   
  Most of my serious listening is of 96/48 upsampled digital files ripped from CD via XLD to my Mac mini and played through my Sony DA777-ES and my PSB Synchrony 2 towers. I realized some time back that I couldn't sync my iPhone to my Mini library because all the high def files wouldn't sync. So, I started over and coverted the high def files to 48/16 and that's what I have on my iPhone.
   
  I got my c5 and then realized I couldn't buy a LOD anywhere, so I waited until my Fiio showed up before reviewing things.
   
  My portable set up is my iPhone 4s 64G -> LOD -> c5 -> Klipsch Image One headphones which I picked up a couple of years ago for when flying.
   
   
  The Image Ones are a little light on the bass, and the c5 with the bass boost on the lowest setting works remarkably well at filling out the bass just right.
   
  Here are some of the pieces I listen to when evaluating my music equipment
  Spin Doctors - Two Princes
  Kenny Wayne Shepherd Band - Blue On Black
  Five Finger Death Punch - The Bleeding Acoustic
  Foo Fighters - Everlong Acoustic
  Pachelbel - Canon in D
  Harry Connick Jr - Blue Light, Red Light
  Red Hot Chili Peppers - Under the Bridge
  Stevie Ray Vaughn - Life By The Drop
   
  The highest compliment that I can give to the c5 is that it makes everything better, but that I otherwise don't notice it. Run through the c5, my music does a very good imitation of the sound I get from my home system, and that's ultimately what I'm after.
   
  Second best audio purchase ever after my PSB speakers.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> The bass boost is too much, for me, when sitting down in a quiet environment, but it actually works really well when there is a lot of background ambient noise (i.e. in a bus, waiting outside near a busy street, etc.).


 
   
  I agree on both points.  At work I don't find the bass boost that bad.  Really intently listening at home at night and it's simply too much.  Let's all get John to make the next model with a two option +3 +6 switch


----------



## luisdent

Well, I think I've come to a satisfactory situation with my ipod/c5 physical placement/connection.  The store allowed me to exchange my lightning adapter for the adapter with no cable length on it.  That works a lot better.  The fiio cables still tend to stress outwards and don't allow a perfectly straight connection where I can lay the device on the amp easily.  However, I fixed that by using a wide removable zip tie that I cut the ends off of.  So now both ipods sit well on the c5.
   
  In some configurations the volume is very difficult to get to.  I don't like blocking anything on the front with the device input.  I realize connecting on the back might make the cable situation worse as the bottom of the device is usually the line-out, at least with ipods.  So, I'm not sure what the best fix would be.  Perhaps there is no better way...?  Volume on the side might be nice.  That would actually be very nice, maybe on the front right side on the right plane.
   
  Anyhow, here are some photos if you're considering using an ipod and a fiio adapter.
   
  This wouldn't be bad if the volume wasn't blocked.  Deal breaker for me.
   

   
  This would be good, but there is a reasonable amount of strain if you want the device straight on top of the c5.
   

   
  Same as the first, but with an ipod classic.  Again, perfect if it didn't block the volume.
   

   
  Solution?  Straight line-out cable with a thick zip tie with ends cut off.  This keeps the strain off the jacks.  It might not be perfect for the cable (although it seems fine), but I'd rather buy another $12 cable than a $189 amp.  The newest ipod touch is longer and the adapter increases the overall length, but it still sits on the c5 with no problem.
   

   
  Side view.
   

   
  Zip tie cable with the ipod classic = best situation.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Well, I think I've come to a satisfactory situation with my ipod/c5 physical placement/connection.  The store allowed me to exchange my lightning adapter for the adapter with no cable length on it.  That works a lot better.  The fiio cables still tend to stress outwards and don't allow a perfectly straight connection where I can lay the device on the amp easily.  However, I fixed that by using a wide removable zip tie that I cut the ends off of.  So now both ipods sit well on the c5.
> 
> In some configurations the volume is very difficult to get to.  I don't like blocking anything on the front with the device input.  I realize connecting on the back might make the cable situation worse as the bottom of the device is usually the line-out, at least with ipods.  So, I'm not sure what the best fix would be.  Perhaps there is no better way...?  Volume on the side might be nice.  That would actually be very nice, maybe on the front right side on the right plane.
> 
> ...


 
  Nice. I might have to go with a zip-tie as well. I thought I was the only one with the FiiO cable fiasco, hahaha.


----------



## rckyosho

I think if you guys just get a longer LOD cable and turn the IPOD the other way round the cable would easily go under the IPOD and between the C5 and would not cause any stress and accessibility would be better no?


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





rckyosho said:


> I think if you guys just get a longer LOD cable and turn the IPOD the other way round the cable would easily go under the IPOD and between the C5 and would not cause any stress and accessibility would be better no?


 
   
  That was essentially the cable I had.  The problem was that it either covered the ipod screen, was between the devices keeping the ipod from sitting on the amp flat or under the amp keeping it from sitting flat on the surface it's on.  Plus it was just a bit more of an unruly cable situation. just because it was more cabling in general.  The shorted cable is working nicely with the zip tie.


----------



## BB 808

I'm using the Fiio L9 between the iPod Classic and C5 for now.  I may get the ALO Audio Cricket, but it's kind of expensive.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





bb 808 said:


> I'm using the Fiio L9 between the iPod Classic and C5 for now.  I may get the ALO Audio Cricket, but it's kind of expensive.


 
  Kind of expensive? You're paying more than half the price of the C5 for a < 3-inch cable. T_T


----------



## BB 808

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Kind of expensive? You're paying more than half the price of the C5 for a < 3-inch cable. T_T


 
  Yeah, the practical guy on my left shoulder says keep the L9.  The audiophiliac on my right shoulder keeps making cricket noises


----------



## placebo-fi

Here's a cheaper custom option from BTG-Audio:

 http://btg-audio.com/webstore.htm#ecwid:category=3351504&mode=product&product=14274706

 Having bought a Starlight CIEM cable from Brian, I can attest to the quality of his SPC wire: very flexible, great looking, and sounds great as well.

 A left exit 1 inch LOD would probably be the best solution for the C5.

 EDIT: the iPod dock on Brian's LODs looks smaller than the Cricket. So much for ALO's marketing "This line out dock is designed to be as unobtrusive as possible."


----------



## BB 808

Quote: 





placebo-fi said:


> Here's a cheaper custom option from BTG-Audio:
> 
> http://btg-audio.com/webstore.htm#ecwid:category=3351504&mode=product&product=14274706
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks for the info.  I will place an order today!


----------



## rckyosho

Quote: 





placebo-fi said:


> Here's a cheaper custom option from BTG-Audio:
> 
> http://btg-audio.com/webstore.htm#ecwid:category=3351504&mode=product&product=14274706
> 
> ...


 
  Actually a short straight more flexible cable  and jack would be the best option for the C5 something like this:
   
  http://www.ebay.com.sg/itm/New-silver-plated-LOD-cable-iphone-ipod-i-touch-/270971592884?pt=Other_MP3_Player_Accessories&hash=item3f172a60b4





   
  And it's an even more cheaper option and would definitely make the stack stay put.


----------



## rckyosho

Or how about this: 
   
  http://www.ebay.com.sg/itm/Apple-iPhone-iPod-Nano-itouch-Line-Out-Dock-LOD-Headphone-Amplifier-Black-/180918590814?pt=Other_MP3_Player_Accessories&hash=item2a1f969d5e#ht_3377wt_906


 
      
   [size=small] 



   
[/size]



 


 
  and a jack of your liking maybe a fiio L8 then you could go right or left...frankly you guys got it easy for iDevices as there are tons of options to choose from.


----------



## ostewart

Make you own cables, see mine a few pages back, DIY perfect fit


----------



## MilesDavis2

Quote: 





bb 808 said:


> I'm using the Fiio L9 between the iPod Classic and C5 for now.  I may get the ALO Audio Cricket, but it's kind of expensive.


 
  I have the cricket. Good LOD. I just got the Fiio L3 last week for $9.99 and I am impressed.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





milesdavis2 said:


> I have the cricket. Good LOD. I just got the Fiio L3 last week for $9.99 and I am impressed.


 
   
  I'd use it that way, but my phones have an l-shape connector, so i can't have the fiio point that way.  It blocks the phones one way or the volume the other way, :-o


----------



## MilesDavis2

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> I'd use it that way, but my phones have an l-shape connector, so i can't have the fiio point that way.  It blocks the phones one way or the volume the other way, :-o


 
  I got the cricket here on headfi at a wonderful reduced price to use for my national as the input for the national is far right which makesthe cricket perfect as it was intended for the continental and the national. Just got a new amp last week and the cricket was a little short for it so I decided on the Fiio L3. I'm using an L shaped connector too and thats why I chose a straight plug rather than L shaped.


----------



## nOtEcH

milesdavis2 said:


> I got the cricket here on headfi at a wonderful reduced price to use for my national as the input for the national is far right which makesthe cricket perfect as it was intended for the continental and the national. Just got a new amp last week and the cricket was a little short for it so I decided on the Fiio L3. I'm using an L shaped connector too and thats why I chose a straight plug rather than L shaped.




I've got a streight connector plug for my headphones and for a while I used the FiiO L9 around it. The stack looked nice, but the cable blocked the bass boost switch. Now I am using the FiiO L3, and everything is accessable. The FiiO LOD's are quite good, but I have high hopes for the Silver Dragon V3 LOD (Moon Audio).. it is on the way, and will be with me soon. But not soon enough though..


----------



## MilesDavis2

Quote: 





notech said:


> I've got a streight connector plug for my headphones and for a while I used the FiiO L9 around it. The stack looked nice, but the cable blocked the bass boost switch. Now I am using the FiiO L3, and everything is accessable. The FiiO LOD's are quite good, but I have high hopes for the Silver Dragon V3 LOD (Moon Audio).. it is on the way, and will be with me soon. But not soon enough though..


 
  Yes, the V3 silver dragons are great.


----------



## miceblue

Ever since I got the C5, my O2 has been sitting at my desk without use. >_<
  Synergy-wise, the C5 sounds great with the K 701 since the center imaging is improved and the bass boost function is friggin' awesome for gaming and for listening to bass-oriented music genres.
  Usability-wise, the C5 pairs wonderfully with the V-MODA Crossfade M-100 for portable applications as the C5+iPhone combo easily fits in my jean pocket and/or jacket pocket. That kind of use is pretty much impossible for me with the O2.


----------



## Dark Helmet

mannes said:


> I have a colorfly c3 connected to the c5 at the moment and I am impressed how good this sounds it sounds more natural to me and with more detail. I have a iPod touch 3g also I will compare it today to see what sounds better to me.




Any word yet?


----------



## Mannes

dark helmet said:


> Any word yet?


o

Yes I thought the colorfly c3 would do very well because it's a very good sounding dap but the touch with the fiio lod sounds cleaner and more crisp so I won't use my c3 anymore. I realy love the sound from the touch c5 and the dt1350.


----------



## Dark Helmet

Quote: 





mannes said:


> o
> 
> Yes I thought the colorfly c3 would do very well because it's a very good sounding dap but the touch with the fiio lod sounds cleaner and more crisp so I won't use my c3 anymore. I realy love the sound from the touch c5 and the dt1350.


 
  Many of the guys on the C&C BH thread have had great results with the C3 into a BH.  A few have compared it with Ipods > LOD's > Amp and preferred the C3 by a fair margin.  I have one on order  and currently  I have the BH amp with a 5.5 Gen iPod Rockboxed.  I really like it but find that updating, everytime I want to shuffle my playlist a pain, and I don't dig the software too much.  Thanks for the info on your results.  I appreciate it.
   
  By the way I would suggest trying another LOD.  I felt as though my Fiio LOD was good but the one I made had a bigger soundstage.  In my experience the Fiio gave the impression of more punch and perhaps cleaner but it had less musical information than the LOD I made.  My son has the Fiio now along with my old E5.


----------



## Mooses9

has anyone directly compared the c5 with the c421?
   
  im loving my c421, its such a excellent amp. i am awaiting to get my ipod  lod back from ted. to test the c421 straight up.
   
   
  does the c5 follow the same principals as the c421 ie: completely black staging, i get no volume noise,no hiss,just pitch black.
   
  also is it transparent. the c421 is extremely transparent it adds no color whatsoever to the music or sound.
   
  i am considering the c5, but my c421 8620 is so great i just wonder if the differences are subtle or major? in sound other than other physical asthetics


----------



## nOtEcH

mooses9 said:


> has anyone directly compared the c5 with the c421?
> 
> im loving my c421, its such a excellent amp. i am awaiting to get my ipod  lod back from ted. to test the c421 straight up.
> 
> ...




randomkid have both the C5 and the C421 8620 (if it is not sold by now). Anyway he thinks the C5 is better.
Read his posts and if you are missing something you may ask him about details?

JDS Labs:


jseaber said:


> c5 is the better amp, so c421 is discontinued.


----------



## ostewart

C5 is better, I have sold the C421 but did do a comparison before it went.
Just waiting till I'm next in the computer to post review including comparison to C421 AD8620 and O2


----------



## Mooses9

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> C5 is better, I have sold the C421 but did do a comparison before it went.
> Just waiting till I'm next in the computer to post review including comparison to C421 AD8620 and O2


 
  well thats good to know it improves on such a already great amplifier (c421)
   
  when i got my jds labs c421 i wasnt expecting what it is in terms of sound quality and build. for the price and sound. these amplifiers both c421and c5 contend with amps double their price imo.
   
  eager to hear pros and cons between both c421 and c5


----------



## kkfan

Hi all!

I've glanced through all 49 pages in this thread so far, but couldn't find any proper info about the synergy between the C5 and *Beyer DT880/250 Ohm*.

I've been trying to decide between the C5 and C&C XO2 (more expensive and LOT more power) to pair with the DT880/250. Although the XO2 is supposed to be very powerful, I'm not sure about its *quality* of sound. From everything I've read here, the C5 produces high quality sound, but I don't know how well it can deliver that quality to the DT880/250.

If someone has tested this combo, can you please share your opinion?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Mannes

dark helmet said:


> Many of the guys on the C&C BH thread have had great results with the C3 into a BH.  A few have compared it with Ipods > LOD's > Amp and preferred the C3 by a fair margin.  I have one on order  and currently  I have the BH amp with a 5.5 Gen iPod Rockboxed.  I really like it but find that updating, everytime I want to shuffle my playlist a pain, and I don't dig the software too much.  Thanks for the info on your results.  I appreciate it.
> 
> By the way I would suggest trying another LOD.  I felt as though my Fiio LOD was good but the one I made had a bigger soundstage.  In my experience the Fiio gave the impression of more punch and perhaps cleaner but it had less musical information than the LOD I made.  My son has the Fiio now along with my old E5.




Thank you I think I will try the c3 again with another interlink.


----------



## audionewbi

C5+EX-1000+DD socket 1+jazz music= eargasim. I think the reason why treble because hot at times is not the fault of the amp but it is the fault of the track, it is just recorded that way.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





kkfan said:


> Hi all!
> 
> I've glanced through all 49 pages in this thread so far, but couldn't find any proper info about the synergy between the C5 and *Beyer DT880/250 Ohm*.
> 
> ...


 
   
  According to John and the power calculations, the c5 should provide its quality to that phone with no problem.  As for a specific "synergy", I can't say as I haven't heard them.  But you shouldn't be missing any of the c5's quality with them if you want them to be as neutral as their sound signature allows.


----------



## kkfan

luisdent said:


> According to John and the power calculations, the c5 should provide its quality to that phone with no problem.  As for a specific "synergy", I can't say as I haven't heard them.  But you shouldn't be missing any of the c5's quality with them if you want them to be as neutral as their sound signature allows.




Thanks a lot for the response. 

If I remember correctly, John's calculations assumed a sensitivity of >100 dB. The DT880/250 is less efficient at 96 dB. And from what I understood, the sensitivity plays a major role in the amp's ability to perform with a particular pair of headphones. From what I've read in this thread, the HD800, although having a higher impedance of 300 ohms, has a higher sensitivity of >100 dB.

So, this *sensitivity* issue is what has me worried about the capability of this amp to perform well with the DT880/250. It would be great if someone who has experience with the combo can chime in.


----------



## Gintaras

anyone compared C5 to Tralucent T1? would be curious to hear impressions from those who had a chance to compare.
   
  what i find hard to believe is C5 bests O2


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





gintaras said:


> anyone compared C5 to Tralucent T1? would be curious to hear impressions from those who had a chance to compare.
> 
> what i find hard to believe is C5 bests O2


 
  It depends on the context of "bests". For a portable amp, I think the C5 trumps the O2 for overall sound, usability, and storage. For a desktop amp, I find the O2 to be a bit more transparent. For synergy.....that's another story.


----------



## ostewart

The O2 is still better, but not by far. The C5 has a more intimate presentation, the O2 is more airy and spacious.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> The O2 is still better, but not by far. The C5 has a more intimate presentation, the O2 is more airy and spacious.


 
  Yaaaay, so I'm not crazy after all! That's really re-assuring, so thank you for your observations. 
  I posted the soundstage difference in the O2 thread and people were surprised about my finding....even after multiple by-ear volume matching trials they were surprised. >_<
   
  And yes I totally agree that the O2 is just a bit better than the C5, but mostly due to the spacious presentation.


----------



## thor777

I just noticed a strange thing going on with my C5 today.  This morning when I powered on my Cowon Z2 + C5 setup and hit play, I got silence for about 5-7 seconds, then static and noise started coming in at a gradually increasing volume until it hit the preset volume I left it at before powering down the night before (and left it charging overnight).  I thought it was strange but didn't really give it any thought and chalked it up to a one time fluke.  But when I turned it on again later in the morning, I got the same strange sound.  So I did some testing throughout the day and it seems it's got to do with the bassboost.  If I leave the C5 turned off long enough (not sure exactly how long yet) and turn it on when the bassboost enabled, I will get this strange sound.  If I turned on the C5 with bassboost disabled, then it'll play music and the correct volume right away with no noise or distortion.  It makes sense that it's related to bassboost since I only started using bassboost yesterday.  I was able to record couple clips of the strange noise happening in 2 different instances using my phone and I'm attaching it here (rename to wav for playback).  Did any of you out there experience something similar?
   
    
   
     
   
   
   
     
   

   
  I do have to also point out that one of the traces on the PCB had it's soldermask scratched off due to being right under the rail that holds the PCB in place.  The fit is real tight and I had to wiggle the PCB to get it out and I suspect that it got scratched off then.  I emailed John and he said that as long as the anodizing is not scraped off it should work fine.  And if the C5 does short due to metal-to-metal contact, it should just short out one channel and he will replace the enclosure.  I'm attaching a pic of the scratched off area.  Don't know if this has anything to do with the noise issue above though.  Just a heads-up for those of you that are doing mod/dev work.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





thor777 said:


> I just noticed a strange thing going on with my C5 today.  This morning when I powered on my Cowon Z2 + C5 setup and hit play, I got silence for about 5-7 seconds, then static and noise started coming in at a gradually increasing volume until it hit the preset volume I left it at before powering down the night before (and left it charging overnight).  I thought it was strange but didn't really give it any thought and chalked it up to a one time fluke.  But when I turned it on again later in the morning, I got the same strange sound.  So I did some testing throughout the day and it seems it's got to do with the bassboost.  If I leave the C5 turned off long enough (not sure exactly how long yet) and turn it on when the bassboost enabled, I will get this strange sound.  If I turned on the C5 with bassboost disabled, then it'll play music and the correct volume right away with no noise or distortion.  It makes sense that it's related to bassboost since I only started using bassboost yesterday.  I was able to record couple clips of the strange noise happening in 2 different instances using my phone and I'm attaching it here (rename to wav for playback).  Did any of you out there experience something similar?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I think your .zip files are corrupted or something; I can't open them with 7zip on Windows nor Mac unzippers.
   
  My circuit board has no trouble sliding in or out of the aluminum enclosure's rails.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





thor777 said:


> I just noticed a strange thing going on with my C5 today.  This morning when I powered on my Cowon Z2 + C5 setup and hit play, I got silence for about 5-7 seconds, then static and noise started coming in at a gradually increasing volume until it hit the preset volume I left it at before powering down the night before (and left it charging overnight).  I thought it was strange but didn't really give it any thought and chalked it up to a one time fluke.  But when I turned it on again later in the morning, I got the same strange sound.  So I did some testing throughout the day and it seems it's got to do with the bassboost.  If I leave the C5 turned off long enough (not sure exactly how long yet) and turn it on when the bassboost enabled, I will get this strange sound.  If I turned on the C5 with bassboost disabled, then it'll play music and the correct volume right away with no noise or distortion.  It makes sense that it's related to bassboost since I only started using bassboost yesterday.  I was able to record couple clips of the strange noise happening in 2 different instances using my phone and I'm attaching it here (rename to wav for playback).  Did any of you out there experience something similar?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Your files won't open here, could you email them to us? Since you've been removing the board, please check that C602 has not been dislodged (large silver capacitor beneath "R602"). We had once customer jam the battery pack into this capacitor, ripping it from its rightmost solder joint. This caused problems with bass boost. Also make sure your source is paused/muted/off before turning C5 on.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Also make sure your source is paused/muted/off before turning C5 on.


 
   
  Just out of curiosity, how does that affect the amp?  Also, is it safe to turn the amp off/on with headphones plugged in? (i don't currently)


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'm assuming yes. I do it all the time.
  From the blog post:
  Quote: 





> C5 builds upon c421′s proven power stage by adding cutting edge TPS7A4700 and TPS7A3301 regulators to the supply rails. Hats off to HiFiDuino’s blog post for catching my attention back in September.
> 
> We wanted to place LDO’s in c421, but there was no way to control them, and without control, unsynchronized LDO’s produce unsafe turn-on transients. C5 is smarter than c421, so its firmware simultaneously enables the positive and negative LDO’s after the rest of the amp has initialized. You hear only a safe turn-on transient with C5, and reap the benefits of ultra-low supply noise.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Just out of curiosity, how does that affect the amp?  Also, is it safe to turn the amp off/on with headphones plugged in? (i don't currently)


 
   
  No damage is possible (we've tried). The DS1882 has strict startup requirements:
   

 No input signals
 Analog supply rails must be applied first
 Digital 5V rail applied next
 Apply initialization parameters + short write delay
   
  Arduino handles all of this, but cannot prevent the user from playing music before C5 is on. If audio is present before C5 is turned on, the digital potentiometer may not boot properly and audio may be severely distorted, possibly mono, and . No damage, though. Turn the amp off for 5+ seconds to reset. This is all summarized in the instructions:
   
_"To ensure proper startup, keep audio player off or paused before turning C5 on."_
   
*Edit:* thor777's description reminds me of the noise I heard when manually booting the DS1882 out of order. It's fairly resistant to small input signals. Larger inputs tend to break the bootup cycle. Toggling bass boost on would possibly push an "okay" signal into "not okay" territory.


----------



## luisdent

jseaber said:


> No damage is possible (we've tried). The DS1882 has strict startup requirements:
> 
> 
> No input signals
> ...




Ah. Interesting. I didn't get a manual... But I found the online download. I do all of the proper procedures anyway just out of caution. I was just worried about my er-4s because the only time I accidentally forgot to unplug them before turning the c5 on, it made the typical power popping noise, although not that loud. I just don't want to damage them.


----------



## thor777

C602 capacitor is secure and isn't damaged.  I did not move the battery at all.  Like I noted in my first post, you need to rename the extensions of the 2 audio files to .wav in order to play them.  The attachment tool wouldn't allow .wav files so I changed them to .zip.  I will send the audio files to John for analysis.  Also, the noise happened again on my way back home today.  I was on the metro listening to music (with bassboost enabled) when the last song in my playlist ended and the music stopped.  I just left the Z2 and C5 on playing nothing at all as I was checking email.  After couple minutes I started to play a new album and the noise came back.  So this happens even when the C5 stays on and there's no music for a certain amount of time.
   
  Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Your files won't open here, could you email them to us? Since you've been removing the board, please check that C602 has not been dislodged (large silver capacitor beneath "R602"). We had once customer jam the battery pack into this capacitor, ripping it from its rightmost solder joint. This caused problems with bass boost. Also make sure your source is paused/muted/off before turning C5 on.


----------



## audionewbi

Any future plans on making an amp based on OPA627?


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





thor777 said:


> C602 capacitor is secure and isn't damaged.  I did not move the battery at all.  Like I noted in my first post, you need to rename the extensions of the 2 audio files to .wav in order to play them.  The attachment tool wouldn't allow .wav files so I changed them to .zip.  I will send the audio files to John for analysis.  Also, the noise happened again on my way back home today.  I was on the metro listening to music (with bassboost enabled) when the last song in my playlist ended and the music stopped.  I just left the Z2 and C5 on playing nothing at all as I was checking email.  After couple minutes I started to play a new album and the noise came back.  So this happens even when the C5 stays on and there's no music for a certain amount of time.


 
   
  Could there be DC offset from the Z2? We'll be glad to inspect; already replied to your email.
   
    

*audionewbi: *Not planned


----------



## phrosty

@jseaber I'm noticing some heavy distortion from my C5 when I've got my ODAC all the way up. Is the C5 not able to handle red book line-level 2Vrms?


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





phrosty said:


> @jseaber I'm noticing some heavy distortion from my C5 when I've got my ODAC all the way up. Is the C5 not able to handle red book line-level 2Vrms?


 
  can you upload the track you having issues with here, I haven't encountered anything like that.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





phrosty said:


> @jseaber I'm noticing some heavy distortion from my C5 when I've got my ODAC all the way up. Is the C5 not able to handle red book line-level 2Vrms?


 
   
  C5 handles red book line-level input. I'm listening to C5 and ODAC now, just fine.
   
  Supply rails are +/-7V and you can see from benchmarks that max output voltage is above 2VRMS. Try adjusting volume and gain at the amp.


----------



## phrosty

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> C5 handles red book line-level input. I'm listening to C5 and ODAC now, just fine.
> 
> Supply rails are +/-7V and you can see from benchmarks that max output voltage is above 2VRMS. Try adjusting volume and gain at the amp.


 
   
  Apologies, this was complete user error! Some new cans aren't handling the bass boost very well.


----------



## audionewbi

C5 sounds warmer than O2 with bass switch off. I assume lowering the gain might solve that issue. Is there anyway we could have a three gain setup program on C5?


----------



## Mannes

Hm I connected my c3 again now the c5 is burned in it does sound realy good it's more detailed than the iPod touch even I'm double amping now.
I am listening a lot to this setup I think I need a full size headphone now.


----------



## audionewbi

Yea for some reason I feel C5 will work better on headphone or high impedance IEM.


----------



## Mannes

audionewbi said:


> Yea for some reason I feel C5 will work better on headphone or high impedance IEM.




Yes for sure but what I ment was after a while my dt1350 starts to be uncomfortable I love the sound so much that I'm listening to it a very big part of the day


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





mannes said:


> Yes for sure but what I ment was after a while my dt1350 starts to be uncomfortable I love the sound so much that I'm listening to it a very big part of the day


 
  well nothing can be done about that, that is the price you have to pay for great sounding on ears


----------



## Mannes

audionewbi said:


> well nothing can be dont about that, that is the price you have to pay for great sounding on ears




Very true


----------



## Mannes

Btw Darkhelmet what interlink would you suggest for me to use with the c3 to connect to the c5?


----------



## ostewart

review is now up on first post


----------



## Mannes

ostewart said:


> review is now up on first post




Great review thank you


----------



## BB 808

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> review is now up on first post


 
  Thanks for the excellent review!  I agree with your opinion of the C5 and I enjoy the sound through my SE530 and SR80i.  To my ears, bass boost is just right for both of my headphones.


----------



## akash neagi

anyone paired the c5 with the hd215????


----------



## kkfan

ostewart said:


> review is now up on first post




Thanks!
Great review.


----------



## Dark Helmet

mannes said:


> Btw Darkhelmet what interlink would you suggest for me to use with the c3 to connect to the c5?




See if you can find a silver 3.5mm to 3.5 mm. I'm sure there is something on ebay at a reasonable price. I'll b building my own. I have some braided silver coming by next week and my C3 should be here tomorrow. For now I'll have to make one out of copper wire.


----------



## miceblue

Excellent review *randomkid*! Your description of the C5's sound correspond to my impressions. It's a worthy companion for the O2 as a more portable headphone amplifier.


----------



## ostewart

Thanks everyone.

And thanks to john for providing me with the C5.

Silver 3.5 interconnect is best


----------



## Dark Helmet

Quote: 





mannes said:


> Btw Darkhelmet what interlink would you suggest for me to use with the c3 to connect to the c5?


 
  Mannes, here is one I found:
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Custom-made-Pure-Solid-Silver-3-5-to-3-5-interconnect-Cable-/140941371988?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item20d0c2aa54


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> review is now up on first post


 
   
  I would say I agree with you on everything completely.  I don't have any other portable amps to compare the mids to, so I can't say for sure, but if they are forward it is very slight as you said.  I can tell comparing my main reference amps that it is extremely neutral though.  And all the other points you mentioned are spot on.  Excellent amp, highly recommended.  I'm one advocate for a two way bass switch though.   It is not too difficult an implementation I believe, and the option is that much more convenient for anyone who might need it.


----------



## miceblue

Ah, this L9 LOD cable might work better than the L3.


----------



## gkanai

miceblue said:


> Ah, this L9 LOD cable might work better than the L3.



So no external DAC for you?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





gkanai said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'm not going to spend $500+ USD on an Apple Certified mobile DAC....if anything I'll just bring my laptop and ODAC with me, which will probably be a better-sounding rig than the mobile DAC. That plus $300+ is the point of diminishing returns for me in audio gear at this point in time.


----------



## Erling

I wonder if I might throw in a request for advice. I've read the opening review and most of the thread and I think there a slight lack of a "wow" response. I'm torn between the C5 and iBasso T5 - which one would be more fun between the mobile phone (mp3's there due to space limitations) and Sennheiser HD25-1. Any advice greatly appreciated!


----------



## Erling

I wonder if I might throw in a request for advice. I've read the opening review and most of the thread and I think there a slight lack of a "wow" response. I'm torn between the C5 and iBasso T5 - which one would be more fun between the mobile phone (mp3's there due to space limitations) and Sennheiser HD25-1. Any advice greatly appreciated!


----------



## audionewbi

C5 wins over T5 not by a small margin but by a huge margin. I own the T5 for a long time and the only thing that it wins over C5 is the size. T5 in no way, shape or form can even compete with C5. 
   
  PS:If you want I be more than happy to sell my T5 to you with more than a reasonable price 
  Quote: 





erling said:


> I wonder if I might throw in a request for advice. I've read the opening review and most of the thread and I think there a slight lack of a "wow" response. I'm torn between the C5 and iBasso T5 - which one would be more fun between the mobile phone (mp3's there due to space limitations) and Sennheiser HD25-1. Any advice greatly appreciated!


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





erling said:


> I wonder if I might throw in a request for advice. I've read the opening review and most of the thread and I think there a slight lack of a "wow" response. I'm torn between the C5 and iBasso T5 - which one would be more fun between the mobile phone (mp3's there due to space limitations) and Sennheiser HD25-1. Any advice greatly appreciated!


 
  Honestly, nothing really wows me any more at this point (not even an LCD-2, K1000, or SR-007 MKI). I don't know if that's good or bad, hahaha. The HD800's massive soundstage was the only thing that wowed me in terms of audio, period.
   
  I just listen for how things sound and if I like it, I like it. The O2 was built to "sound" transparent, so I use that as my reference amp. The C5 has similar colouration, or lack of it, compared the the O2 and that sounds good to me and I like it.


----------



## Gintaras

curious if anyone have listened and compared C5 vs. Tralucent T1 or UHA6MkII. there is also XDuoo amp on other forum which is well praised but not sure if easy to buy. they all seem to be in the 200-300$ price range if i am not mistaken.


----------



## Mannes

dark helmet said:


> Mannes, here is one I found:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Custom-made-Pure-Solid-Silver-3-5-to-3-5-interconnect-Cable-/140941371988?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item20d0c2aa54




Thank you Darkhelmet that's a sexy looking cable.


----------



## fengwei007

Just joined the club 

Got a C5 yesterday, my very first portable amp. Hooked up with my iPhone4s w an iBasso CB07 LOD, sound a lot better than using iPhone alone. Now my Cowon S9 got a serious competition sound quality wise. But its battery life and EQ flexibility (to suit different headphones/IEMs) are really hard to beat.


----------



## kkfan

fengwei007 said:


> Just joined the club
> 
> Got a C5 yesterday, my very first portable amp. Hooked up with my iPhone4s w an iBasso CB07 LOD, sound a lot better than using iPhone alone. Now my Cowon S9 got a serious competition sound quality wise. But *its battery life and EQ flexibility* (to suit different headphones/IEMs) are really hard to beat.




Of _*which*_, C5 or S9?


----------



## gkanai

miceblue said:


> Honestly, nothing really wows me any more at this point (not even an LCD-2, K1000, or SR-007 MKI).




Ah, but have you tried an SR-009?


----------



## fengwei007

Quote: 





kkfan said:


> Of _*which*_, C5 or S9?


 

 S9 of course  It's a great little player I have to say.


----------



## BB 808

Quote: 





fengwei007 said:


> Just joined the club
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  So you are comparing a headphone amp against an MP3 player for battery life and EQ flexibility?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





gkanai said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  No, but I've talked to people who really like the SR-007 MKI (I'm a big fan of it, but like I said, it doesn't wow me, it just sounds really good) and they said although the SR-009 sounds better, it isn't worth the price difference, and if so I would certainly agree. Paying twice the price of a SR-007, which is already quite expensive at $2600, for a little bit better sound quality isn't worth it to me.
   
  C5 is still within the < $300+ diminishing returns range for me so I am completely satisfied with the C5 for what it is.


----------



## fengwei007

Quote: 





bb 808 said:


> So you are comparing a headphone amp against an MP3 player for battery life and EQ flexibility?


 
  I don't really compare them against each other. I know what I like when I hook them up w/ my headphones   
   
  The Cowon S9 has pretty good output power, it can make T1 sound too loud to even put on my ears when set to highest volume (although I never really pair these together, only tested a couple of times). That's why I haven't bought a portable amp until now. I just want to try how my iPhone/iPods pair w/ a portable amp. For now I quite like the combo.


----------



## rckyosho

For those that is still on the fence or considering to get one I've compared my tube amp(has loads more power,less than a quarter turn on the volume knob to get the same volume level) with the C5 in high gain and level matched with the same SPL(pretty loud around 96db +/- 0.5 db) and it sounds the same(differences are negligible) to my ears. So for portable use you won't regret getting one.


----------



## kkfan

rckyosho said:


> For those that is still on the fence or considering to get one I've compared my tube amp(has loads more power,less than a quarter turn on the volume knob to get the same volume level) with the C5 in high gain and level matched with the same SPL(pretty loud around 96db +/- 0.5 db) and it sounds the same(differences are negligible) to my ears. So for portable use you won't regret getting one.




Wow!

That's quite a complement for the little fella, isn't it?


----------



## rckyosho

kkfan said:


> Wow!
> 
> That's quite a complement for the little fella, isn't it?



I know.Just by comparing without level matching the volume, I feel that my tube amp sounds better but once level match I can't tell them apart.
But driving power hungry phones at home I would still use my tube amp although the C5 could drive them at decent level, the dynamics and effortlessness of my tube amp to drive these phones is still lacking with the C5 but like I said for portable use with portable phones the C5 sounds as good as my tubey.


----------



## audionewbi

I was able to fix the forwardness of C5 by reducing my source output to 0.5 vrm. Now my EX-1000 sounds a lot more laid back while still maintaining just enough detail. I feel C5 will sound as good as what you feed it. However if what you feeding it is more than 1.0 VRM it becomes forward sounding


----------



## LoveKnight

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> I was able to fix the forwardness of C5 by reducing my source output to 0.5 vrm. Now my EX-1000 sounds a lot more laid back while still maintaining just enough detail. I feel C5 will sound as good as what you feed it. However if what you feeding it is more than 1.0 VRM it becomes forward sounding


 
  May I ask how do you reduce your source output to 0.5vrm?


----------



## audionewbi

loveknight said:


> May I ask how do you reduce your source output to 0.5vrm?


 there is no one way , with ODAC for example you can reduce the digital volume. With my iDac I did it using physical switches avaliable. ODAC has 2 vrm so I assume reduce the volume less than 50% should do the job


----------



## kkfan

rckyosho said:


> I know.Just by comparing without level matching the volume, I feel that my tube amp sounds better but once level match I can't tell them apart.
> But driving power hungry phones at home I would still use my tube amp although the C5 could drive them at decent level, the dynamics and effortlessness of my tube amp to drive these phones is still lacking with the C5 but like I said for portable use with portable phones the C5 sounds as good as my tubey.




Like you said, we must consider the C5 for what it is: a portable amp above all else. Given that attribute, to be virtually indistinguishable from a much more powerful tube amp at a volume they can both comfortably drive is to speak volumes of the design of the C5


----------



## audionewbi

Today I decided to to an A/B test with Arrow 4G and C5: Cut the story using my AK100 as source and pairing with my reference IEM the Er4s C5 was a clear winner. Last time I trust my mind without listening to it.
 I still prefer arrow for my low impedance IEM but for higher one C5 truly wins by a great margin.


----------



## flexium

I have Computer --> ODAC --> UM3X, Sennheiser HD580, Sennheiser MX580. 
   
  I have been wanting to buy an amp for a long time but I am not sure that I need them?
  I was going to buy the O2 but I also saw the imbalance issue. I almost always listen to music at low volume and sometimes, I do have imbalance issue with just outputting from ODAC. 
  From the reviews I see, C5 is a relatively neutral(compared to other amps) amp that solves the imbalance issue that O2 has. C5 does have a little more forward mids than O2 but not dramatically so this will make the sound slightly warmer which I don't mind. 
   
  Do you guys have any advice? Currently I do not really have a big problem with just my set up. But I want to see if you guys think my sound will be improved from using C5 or maybe I need higher class headphones before I need an nice amp?


----------



## luisdent

A little math equation: ER-4S + C5 + BT's "This Binary Universe" = Amazing.


----------



## audionewbi

recieved the new case, i hope it doesnt have the same flaws of the original casing.


----------



## luisdent

audionewbi said:


> recieved the new case, i hope it doesnt have the same flaws of the original casing.


My new case us holding up much better...


----------



## 214324

Quote: 





mannes said:


> Hm I connected my c3 again now the c5 is burned in it does sound realy good it's more detailed than the iPod touch even I'm double amping now.
> I am listening a lot to this setup I think I need a full size headphone now.


 
  And a dedicated DAC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 jk


----------



## Mannes

hybridcore said:


> And a dedicated DAC.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Well my findings are that the dac in the c3 is prety good but I must say I'm prety new at the mobile market.


----------



## miceblue

A few friends of mine had a mini Head-Fi meet today. Impressions:
  Quote: 





> JDSlabs C5: I'm buying one. Bass boost=bueno. Stepped volume is A-OK for listening to my music quietly on my GR07, and no noise unless it's on 100% volume.


 
  Quote: 





> I like the M100s a lot (with the C5). They have good soundstage and a solid bass.


----------



## putente

Headfonia review is up: http://www.headfonia.com/jdslabs-the-next-level-the-c5/


----------



## audionewbi

There review is exactly what we have said already, however I never had the C421 so cannot comment on that.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





putente said:


> Headfonia review is up: http://www.headfonia.com/jdslabs-the-next-level-the-c5/


 
  Interesting review. I often find myself disagreeing with a lot of Headfonia reviews, but that's just me.


----------



## Gintaras

nice review and a honest one


----------



## ostewart

interesting review.
   
  I assume that he has the OPA2227 C421, where as i had the AD8620, as you see in my comparison the C421 is more aggressive and in your face and the C5 more laid back.


----------



## putente

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> interesting review.
> 
> I assume that he has the OPA2227 C421, where as i had the AD8620, as you see in my comparison the C421 is more aggressive and in your face and the C5 more laid back.


 
   
   
  A while ago I read a post from someone saying the same thing (maybe in this thread, I'm not sure now) as that review, comparing the c421 (OPA2227) and the new C5...


----------



## LoveKnight

So maybe I do not need to buy C5 because Mike wrote that C5 is more forward than C421 and when pairing my HD598 with C4 I have already felt it is forward. Do not need it to get more forward. Besides I am a fan of slow midrange.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





loveknight said:


> So maybe I do not need to buy C5 because Mike wrote that C5 is more forward than C421 and when pairing my HD598 with C4 I have already felt it is forward. Do not need it to get more forward. Besides I am a fan of slow midrange.


 
   
  While I'd like to see Headfonia post glowing reviews of everything we build, I have to commend Mike on sticking to his subjective taste. He enjoys the high output impedance of c421, and doesn't appreciate the Objective2. That's a problem, since high output-Z yields unique results for every headphone. Hence, c421 reviews were mixed. 
   
  C5 is well received so far, and I couldn't say the same of c421 (it was either loved or hated). Many customers who tried both O2 and c421 kept their O2 and returned c421. We're seeing the opposite trend with C5.
   
*Production: *We approved C5 samples from the next batch this morning. Shipping is on schedule for April 12.


----------



## ClieOS

I with miceblue here, often finding myself being on the opposite side of Headfonia review. Not always, but more than enough to know I can't reference my own experience to their. I hope there is enough C5 this time around as I am going to order soon and don't want to wait for the next batch


----------



## audionewbi

I think once again personal taste comes in play. I truly appreciate the pairing with er4s and ck100pro and the fast charging time.


----------



## kkfan

jseaber said:


> *Production:* We approved C5 samples from the next batch this morning. Shipping is on schedule for April 12.




That's great news as I placed my order a couple of days ago.


----------



## Mutnat

Has anyone tried the C5 with Sennheiser HD25's?  I know I saw at least one request earlier in the thread, but I don't think anyone has said they have.  I'm very curious.  I have the C421/OPA2227 with my HD25-1 II's (source: iTouch 4G, SendStation LOD, L8 cable) and I'm generally very happy with the setup.  The HD25's are pretty forward to begin with, so the slightly laid back C421 keeps them from being obnoxiously forward while still maintaining a great PRaT for Rock and Metal and so on.  However, I know that my 70-ohm HD25's are under the 8x multiplier rule of thumb for output impedance with the C421 which was around 10 or 11 ohm.  I'd be curious to hear what the much lower 2-ohm output impedance C5 with the same opamp and so on would sound like in comparison with the rest of my equipment.  Maybe I'll get a chance to try one at a meet up one day.  Or if anyone here has some helpful thoughts?
   
  Also:  I've seen some conflicting reports on the bass boost, whether it's +6dB, +6.5dB, or +8dB.  Checking the JDS product page features tab, it says this:
  "Bass Boost: +6.5dB @ 80 Hz"
   
  If that's right, and the c421 page is also correct in saying "Bass Boost, +8dB peak", then that means the C5 bass boost is less aggressive than the C421's?  Is that right?  I quite like the bass boost on my c421, I leave it on almost all the time and rarely find it too powerful, so I'm not sure I'd like the 1.5dB reduction.  John, is the c421 centered at 80Hz as well?
   
  EDIT:  replaced "dac" with "opamp" above.


----------



## miceblue

mutnat said:


> Has anyone tried the C5 with Sennheiser HD25's?  I know I saw at least one request earlier in the thread, but I don't think anyone has said they have.  I'm very curious.  I have the C421/OPA2227 with my HD25-1 II's (source: iTouch 4G, SendStation LOD, L8 cable) and I'm generally very happy with the setup.  The HD25's are pretty forward to begin with, so the slightly laid back C421 keeps them from being obnoxiously forward while still maintaining a great PRaT for Rock and Metal and so on.  However, I know that my 70-ohm HD25's are under the 8x multiplier rule of thumb for output impedance with the C421 which was around 10 or 11 ohm.  I'd be curious to hear what the much lower 2-ohm output impedance C5 with the same opamp and so on would sound like in comparison with the rest of my equipment.  Maybe I'll get a chance to try one at a meet up one day.  Or if anyone here has some helpful thoughts?
> 
> Also:  I've seen some conflicting reports on the bass boost, whether it's +6dB, +6.5dB, or +8dB.  Checking the JDS product page features tab, it says this:
> "Bass Boost: +6.5dB @ 80 Hz"
> ...




Yes it's a +6.5 dB bass boost.

The higher damping factor would likely affect the bass region the most on the headphone. Check out Tyll's recent article on the effects of the damping factor: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/meridian-explorer-case-study-effects-output-impedance

From the past few months, I've seen a trend that people seem to ask how X sounds with headphone Y. Instead of asking how X sounds with Y, I think it would be more useful if people described how X sounds in general. I've used the C5 with multiple headphones and I've heard the same sings I listed before between it and the O2, no matter which headphone it is.


I pretty much know what I'm going to write in my review of the C5, including some improvements, but I'm still putting it off until I get the darn AVR programmer to work properly. >.>


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





mutnat said:


> If that's right, and the c421 page is also correct in saying "Bass Boost, +8dB peak", then that means the C5 bass boost is less aggressive than the C421's?  Is that right?  I quite like the bass boost on my c421, I leave it on almost all the time and rarely find it too powerful, so I'm not sure I'd like the 1.5dB reduction.  John, is the c421 centered at 80Hz as well?
> 
> EDIT:  replaced "dac" with "opamp" above.


 
   
  Bass boost of C5 is actually stronger. Neither amp's bass boost curve is centered at 80Hz; c421's "peak" was below 80Hz. You can find the curve on our release article.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Bass boost of C5 is actually stronger. Neither amp's bass boost curve is centered at 80Hz; c421's "peak" was below 80Hz. You can find the curve on our release article.


 
   
  John, how does 14dBu translate to dB?  I'm assuming it's the unloaded voltage measurement?  It would be cool to see a typical or "standard" dB graph.


----------



## miceblue

jseaber said:


> mutnat said:
> 
> 
> > If that's right, and the c421 page is also correct in saying "
> ...




Hm if that's true, might I suggest updating the C5's description then? It can be deceiving. I pointed out that the bass boost wasn't centered at 80 Hz on the Facebook announcement post, nor is the bass boost at 80 Hz a +6.5 dB gain if I'm reading the graph correctly.


----------



## ostewart

Listening to Nirvana - In Utero (in remembrance of Kurt Cobain's death 19 years ago) through ODAC > C5 > Sunrise Audio Dragon2
   
  sounds beautiful, really does Kurt's voice justice, aggressive and very very raw.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Hm if that's true, might I suggest updating the C5's description then? It can be deceiving. I pointed out that the bass boost wasn't centered at 80 Hz on the Facebook announcement post, nor is the bass boost at 80 Hz a +6.5 dB gain if I'm reading the graph correctly.


 
   
  Bass boost is frequency dependent here, so the only way to further clarify is to plot the curve (either visually as we've done, or mathematically). A frequency dependent spec without a given point is useless. How would you clarify?
   
  We'll post another bass plot in dB with our next update. There've been quite a few requests and I'd like to lump all of these numbers and curves into another article.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hm I see. I think it would be better to list the center frequency of the bass boost, and how much gain it has there, similar to what James of FiiO mentioned for the E12 amp.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *jseaber* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
  ^ from "diminishes from there", I was thinking the bass boost was centered at 80 Hz and there has a +6.5 dB gain at that frequency
   
  Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Bass boost of C5 is actually stronger. Neither amp's bass boost curve is centered at 80Hz; c421's "peak" was below 80Hz. You can find the curve on our release article.


 
  ^ from this, my initial impression that the bass boost is centered at 80 Hz was wrong and that the bass boost is actually higher than +6.5 dB somewhere.


----------



## Gintaras

i am curious, has anyone had a chance to compare C5 to Tralucent T1?


----------



## stewartp

Has anyone tried the C5 with the Soundmagic HP100?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





stewartp said:


> Has anyone tried the C5 with the Soundmagic HP100?


 
  Since the C5 is still a fairly new product, you're probably not going to find someone who has heard that specific pairing, yet.
   
  My headphone impressions with the C5 are limited to the K 701, V-MODA M-100, and Shure SRH940, but my observations between the C5 and Objective 2 have all been pretty consistent with my previous statements:

 O2 gives the sense of a larger soundstage with more air between instruments; C5 sounds more boxed-in
 O2 sounds a bit more dynamic; C5 sounds a little duller (not boring dull, but instruments don't sound as "full")
 O2 has a smoother treble (I don't think smoother is the right word for this, nor is rolled-off, but it's not as fatiguing compared to the C5); C5 sounds a tad bit brighter
 C5 has a midrange that is is a tad bit more forward and engaging; O2 sounds more laid-back
  ^ those last two points are probably what the Headfonia review was talking about, maybe.


----------



## mrbigsby

I have both. The HP100 is one of my favorite cans right now, and sounds great with the c5, however it doesn't handle the bass boost so well. These cans have enough bass as it is so they can become overly exaggerated and bloaty with the c5 bass boost and electronica.

The FA011 handles the c5's boost more naturally. I prefer the HP100 on the WA7, but prefer the FA011 (with boost) on the C5, and the HP100 (no boost) on the C5.

Confusing I know, but hopefully helpful. Happy to answer any other specific questions.


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote: 





kkfan said:


> Thanks a lot for the response.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Can anyone elaborate on the sensitivity issue of the DT 880s in the context of the C5?
   
   
  My _transportable _rig is: laptop --> ODAC -->line OUT / Line IN  --> O2 --> DT 880 (250 Ohm; 2005 Edition)
  I'm very happy with the ODAC and O2 as two separates, but I want to *explore *more (under $300).
   
  I am considering the Meridian *Explorer,* UHA-6S MKII, DACport LX (dac only), and of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the C5.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





jakejack_2008 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Ah, I've heard a lot of good things about the UHA-6S MKII, another worthy competitor to the O2 from what I've read. Unfortunately I don't know too much about the DT880. It seems like the DT880 and K 701 have their issues with their "age over time". People are so often confused between newer and older models that it makes reading reviews, and recommendations difficult. I've had my share of confusions between the 7-bump K 701, 8-bump K 701, K 702, Q 701, and K 702 65th Anniversary Edition.... -.-''
   
  Quote: 





mrbigsby said:


> I have both. The HP100 is one of my favorite cans right now, and sounds great with the c5, however it doesn't handle the bass boost so well. These cans have enough bass as it is so they can become overly exaggerated and bloaty with the c5 bass boost and electronica.
> 
> The FA011 handles the c5's boost more naturally. I prefer the HP100 on the WA7, but prefer the FA011 (with boost) on the C5, and the HP100 (no boost) on the C5.
> 
> Confusing I know, but hopefully helpful. Happy to answer any other specific questions.


 
  Ah, even better then.
   
  Yeah the bass boost is a hit or miss depending on personal preferences and headphones. I don't recall reading such experiences with the CMoyBB oddly enough.


----------



## gkanai

Quote: 





jakejack_2008 said:


> Can anyone elaborate on the sensitivity issue of the DT 880s in the context of the C5?
> 
> 
> My _transportable _rig is: laptop --> ODAC -->line OUT / Line IN  --> O2 --> DT 880 (250 Ohm; 2005 Edition)
> I'm very happy with the ODAC and O2 as two separates, but I want to *explore *more (under $300).


 
   
  I have the same O2 and ODAC you do. And the C5.
   
  I'm getting an AudioQuest DragonFly and an HRT microStreamer in the next week or two and will try to do a test between them all (ODAC/O2, ODAC/C5, and then the DragonFly and the microStreamer.)
   
  The DragonFly and the microStreamer are both below $300 and should be in your considerations.


----------



## audionewbi

you know what would be great if they revised O2 and made it with the same shape format as the C5. What is stopping me from carrying O2 around is the odd placement of the volume knob.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> you know what would be great if they revised O2 and made it with the same shape format as the C5. What is stopping me from carrying O2 around is the odd placement of the volume knob.


 
  But that is precisely why I like the C5, hahaha. It has a very pocket-friendly interface. The important things are where they should be, in my opinion. One improvement I have for the C5 is that the potentiometer stick out a little more since I find it hard to adjust in my pocket sometimes (or maybe it's just due to my long fingernails....). Once I do get access to the potentiometer on the other hand, volume and gain adjustments are really smooth.
   
  And to bring this up again, another improvement would be a gain toggle LED indicator.


----------



## audionewbi

As much as I like the digital volume control on C5 I do like a large volume knob. I dont listen to music that low and I never had balance problem with any of my amp.
  As far as the gain goes I was wondering would it be possible to have a three gains setting progammed on C5?
  Quote: 





miceblue said:


> But that is precisely why I like the C5, hahaha. It has a very pocket-friendly interface. The important things are where they should be, in my opinion. One improvement I have for the C5 is that the potentiometer stick out a little more since I find it hard to adjust in my pocket sometimes (or maybe it's just due to my long fingernails....). Once I do get access to the potentiometer on the other hand, volume and gain adjustments are really smooth.
> 
> And to bring this up again, another improvement would be a gain toggle LED indicator.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> As much as I like the digital volume control on C5 I do like a large volume knob. I dont listen to music that low and I never had balance problem with any of my amp.
> As far as the gain goes I was wondering would it be possible to have a three gains setting progammed on C5?
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
  I think it would be possible, but the gain is not changeable I believe. There would just be some added programming logic such as setting a gain integer (1, 2, or 3) for the different gain toggles.
   
  That being said, I still haven't gotten the drivers on Windows nor Mac to work with the SparkFun pocket AVR programmer.
   
  As for volume control, yes I too like the larger volume knobs, but I still have channel imbalance problems with the O2 even with 1.0x gain on the fairly insensitive K 701's. I'm listening to some music at the moment and the volume knob on the O2 is at the ~7 'oclock position, which is plenty loud (maybe too loud) for me. Yes, this is in the channel imbalance region, and yes this is one of the many reasons why I prefer the C5 for quiet home listening.


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote: 





gkanai said:


> I have the same O2 and ODAC you do. And the C5.
> 
> I'm getting an AudioQuest DragonFly and an HRT microStreamer in the next week or two and will try to do a test between them all (ODAC/O2, ODAC/C5, and then the DragonFly and the microStreamer.)
> 
> The DragonFly and the microStreamer are both below $300 and should be in your considerations.


 
  I am  considering the new Meridian Explorer,  and  Dragonfly anymore.
  What do you think?


----------



## Mutnat

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Bass boost of C5 is actually stronger. Neither amp's bass boost curve is centered at 80Hz; c421's "peak" was below 80Hz. You can find the curve on our release article.


 
   
  Thanks John, that's good info.  Do you have a similar graph for the c421/2227 to compare?  Just curious.


----------



## miceblue

Today I was doing some comparisons between the amps and headphones I own, and I thought I should post some impressions here.
   
  iPhone 4S -> FiiO L3 -> O2 or C5 -> Shure SRH940

   
   
  This time, listening with the SRH940, which I haven't done before, the C5's more fatiguing treble (aggressive?) was more apparent to me in comparison to the O2. Cymbals had a more prominent presence in the rock tracks I listened to ("tss" sounds from the cymbals were more sizzly to me), and the bass wasn't as punchy (bass pedals didn't have as much "kick" or authority).
   
  In terms of synergy, I think the O2 would probably be a better choice, but the C5 isn't too shabby. C5 still wins hands down for portability and pocket-friendliness.
   
   
  *sigh* I still need to do a proper level-matching between the C5 and O2 too. I have access to high-quality multimeters at school, but I just need to find the time to sit down and have a careful listening session.


----------



## ostewart

I also found the treble of the C5 a little brighter than the O2


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





mutnat said:


> Thanks John, that's good info.  Do you have a similar graph for the c421/2227 to compare?  Just curious.


 
   
  Previously measured, yes, but can't seem to find the screenshot. Will add that to my to-do benchmarking list...


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Did you ever find a way to do benchmark tests with a 32-ohm load? I think there are a good handful of people interested in seeing benchmarking results with this load.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Did you ever find a way to do benchmark tests with a 32-ohm load? I think there are a good handful of people interested in seeing benchmarking results with this load.


 
  Yes, an impedance adapter is on my desk (as of yesterday). Benchmarks to follow.
   
_*Edit:*_ 32-ohm specs posted.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Awesome, that's great to hear!


----------



## gkanai

Quote: 





jakejack_2008 said:


> I am  considering the new Meridian Explorer,  and  Dragonfly anymore.
> What do you think?


 
   
  I'm going to wait until I have the HRT microStreamer and then do a review of all of them (microStreamer, ODAC/C5, ODAC/O2, DragonFly).


----------



## illusioned

gkanai said:


> I'm going to wait until I have the HRT microStreamer and then do a review of all of them (microStreamer, ODAC/C5, ODAC/O2, DragonFly).




cant wait for that too  cannot decide between odac, dragonfly, microstreamer


----------



## fengwei007

Have been pairing my C5 w/ iPod for a few days now, really love the sound. Yesterday I got a HM603, my very first HM player. Its sound was pretty disappointing when compared w/ iPod+C5 combo. I used a pair of RS1 for the test. After a couple of hours ABx, I liked the iPod+C5 combo a lot more than HM603's headphone out. Almost gave up on this first HM player I've ever had, decided to pair HM603 together with C5 and see how. Man, this combo sounded so much better than iPod+C5! I couldn't help but listening some of my favorite musics until 2am plus  Oh yeah, I can wear Grados for a whole day w/o any problem, I feel they are the most comfortable headphones.
   
  HM603+C5+RS1 combo is just pure musical, can't imagine this can get any better. Now I guess I understand why some guys dislike HM's players, while some love them. Same goes to the different reviews.


----------



## rckyosho

There is a problem with charging with my S3 battery mod which I have manage to solve but the risk is high so
I have updated my post #525 on page 35 to include a warning on the battery mod just in case some users decided to try it.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





rckyosho said:


> There is a problem with charging with my S3 battery mod which I have manage to solve but the risk is high so
> I have updated my post #525 on page 35 to include a warning on the battery mod just in case some users decided to try it.


 
   
  Someone emailed us about this on Monday. C5 uses a BQ24075, which expects a 10k NTC input to its temperature monitoring pin (white wire). Rather than swap entire battery control boards, you could try an external NTC or even a fixed 10k resistor (at your own risk, of course).


----------



## rckyosho

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Someone emailed us about this on Monday. C5 uses a BQ24075, which expects a 10k NTC input to its temperature monitoring pin (white wire). Rather than swap entire battery control boards, you could try an external NTC or even a fixed 10k resistor (at your own risk, of course).


 
  Thanks John that's good to know.So do I still need to connect the temperature monitoring pin(white wire) to the S3 battery "T" pinout with a 10k thermistor/resistor or just to the C5  battery temperature input alone will do? Anyway I will try this once I get hold of a 10k thermistor/resistor to see if it would work.(need to get one frist).


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





rckyosho said:


> Thanks John that's good to know.So do I still need to connect the temperature monitoring pin(white wire) to the S3 battery "T" pinout with a 10k thermistor/resistor or just to the C5  battery temperature input alone will do? Anyway I will try this once I get hold of a 10k thermistor/resistor to see if it would work.(need to get one frist).


 
   
  You'd connect a 10k thermistor/reistor between pin1 of the C5's battery header and ground. Here's the pinout:


----------



## archro

Hello Jseaber, the C5 is a really good  AMP, but I am still have a question about how the C5 power management works?
  since the one cell Li Battery is the only power resource so you have to boost it from 4.2v to 14V （+/-7V)  could you mind do some introduce about this part or and what kind of IC can been use in a really small  PCB area.
  and when the battery voltage drop,  does the positive and negative voltage still in balance or even the positive/negative always keep in +/-7V?
   
  very appreciate if you can share some knowledge to me.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





archro said:


> Hello Jseaber, the C5 is a really good  AMP, but I am still have a question about how the C5 power management works?
> since the one cell Li Battery is the only power resource so you have to boost it from 4.2v to 14V （+/-7V)  could you mind do some introduce about this part or and what kind of IC can been use in a really small  PCB area.
> and when the battery voltage drop,  does the positive and negative voltage still in balance or even the positive/negative always keep in +/-7V?
> 
> very appreciate if you can share some knowledge to me.


 
  Great question. The power stage is more than a single chip. Supply voltage to the opamps is always +/-7V. As the battery drains, the circuits compensate to maintain desired voltage. This means current consumption at the battery increases as the battery gets low, and you always hear maximum performance. Here's a C5 flow diagram that lived on our whiteboard for months:
   
   

   
   
  We increased all 7V lines to 8V, and all 6V lines to 7V. The concept remains the same:
   
_Li-Ion Battery --> Charging and Load Management IC (BQ24075) --> Positive and Inversion Boost IC (LT3471) --> Ultralow-noise LDO's --> Dual supply output_
   
  As you can judge from this flow diagram, the majority of C5's schematic consists of power circuitry. I've shared this with a few engineers. The first response was, "That's complicated." Another wanted to see FFT's, fearing the 1.2MHz boost/inversion stage would emit EMI/RF and make its way into the opamp output. He was pleased to see the result. Careful layout on the 4-layer PCB gives nice, clean FFT's (no harmonics!):
   
   

  Output of C5 - 1kHz test signal (time-domain)
   
   

  Output of C5 - 1kHz test signal (frequency-domain at 1.25kHz intervals)
   
   
   

  Output of C5 - 1kHz test signal (frequency-domain at 50kHz intervals)


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Since the C5 is still a fairly new product, you're probably not going to find someone who has heard that specific pairing, yet.
> 
> My headphone impressions with the C5 are limited to the K 701, V-MODA M-100, and Shure SRH940, but my observations between the C5 and Objective 2 have all been pretty consistent with my previous statements:
> 
> ...


 
  Very good summary/review. This is _reassuring_. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





One cannot go wrong with the O2. Thanx.
   
  I am extremely happy with the *O2* and *ODAC *from JDS Labs.


----------



## archro

Hi Jseaber, thank you for your kindly and patient replay, impressive design!
  I am very clear about how C5 power system works.


----------



## chemist323

[size=medium]Thanks for all the great info.  I have a few questions after scanning most of the thread.  It seems that the only real PORTABLE competitor to the C5 is either the old c421 (discontinued) or from ClieOS’ shootout, the Leckerton Audio UHA-4.[/size]

 [size=medium]Has anyone compared the C5 and the UHA-4 or have an idea how it’d perform vs the C5?[/size]
 [size=medium]Will the C5 will pair up well with my cans: Denon AH-D2000 and DT990 32 ohm ?  [/size]
  [size=medium]I’m definitely excited to get my first amp although it has been a long wait.  Thanks for your help![/size]


----------



## Gintaras

i would say was there anyone to compare C5 to UHA6SmkII? UHA4 is just older amp and 6S might have more appeal. UHA6 has a DAC section too so its higher cost is justified.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





gintaras said:


> i would say was there anyone to compare C5 to UHA6SmkII? UHA4 is just older amp and 6S might have more appeal. UHA6 has a DAC section too so its higher cost is justified.


 
  The UHA4 is probably what one would consider more portable, not to mention having the digital potentiometer like the C5. I would be interested in a Leckerton comparison too.
   
  I just ordered a FiiO E12, so I'll write some comparisons between it and the C5 in a few weeks.


----------



## HiFan

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> The UHA4 is probably what one would consider more portable, not to mention having the digital potentiometer like the C5. I would be interested in a Leckerton comparison too.
> 
> I just ordered a FiiO E12, so I'll write some comparisons between it and the C5 in a few weeks.


 
   

  
  I do have UHA-4 and C5 in my hand. I can update a quick comparison in 2 days. I am not into UHA-4 that much since its sound stage is narrow and has a really weak power output. 
  
  C5 is as portable as UHA-4 and comes with a nicer enclosure. As for FiiO, I am not that sure about their products. I had e11 and e10. Not very impressive. Maybe worth the price, but not even close to C5. Their cables are good though.


----------



## chemist323

Quote: 





hifan said:


> I do have UHA-4 and C5 in my hand. I can update a quick comparison in 2 days. I am not into UHA-4 that much since its sound stage is narrow and has a really weak power output.
> 
> C5 is as portable as UHA-4 and comes with a nicer enclosure. As for FiiO, I am not that sure about their products. I had e11 and e10. Not very impressive. Maybe worth the price, but not even close to C5. Their cables are good though.


 

 That would be awesome!  Thanks.  Also, C5 should pair up with my headphones (AH-d2000, DT990/32), right?


----------



## ThurstonX

Just got the tracking # for my *RED* C5 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  This is my first headphone amp, but based on everything I've read herein, I have great expectations. I'll be using it with a 160 GB Rockboxed iPod Classic (all FLAC, all the time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) and a Toshiba Qosmio laptop (probably at 24/96, though it'll do 24/192), with, mainly K550s, and occasionally Phiaton PS210s (iPod only). I expect the Bass Boost may come in handy with both.
   
  I do have a couple questions that I'm sure y'all can answer.
   

 Is there any point/value in using the C5 with a car stereo? Normally I just go from the iPod's phone jack to an AUX in I hooked up for the Pioneer. Now I'll be using the LOD I got along with the C5, but I'm not sure the C5 is really needed. That would be double amping, yes? Anyway, curious to hear what you have to say.
 What about a DAC, like the ODAC? I've done a bit of research, and I gather it could improve the sound out of the laptop. Can the ODAC be used in a portable setup with the iPod? Aside from power issues, my guess is NO, as the iPod is Rockboxed.
   
  Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who asked pertinent questions and posted reviews and advice.


----------



## miceblue

thurstonx said:


> Just got the tracking # for my [COLOR=FF3300]*RED*[/COLOR] C5
> 
> 
> 
> ...




1. I would say an external amp for a car stereo system isn't necessary based on my experience with the O2 and C5. With my setup (iPhone, FiiO L3, C5, cassette tape adaptor, car stereo system), the C5's bass was really distorted at high volume levels out of the C5, and was even worse with the bass boost on.

2. The ODAC can't be used with an iDevice period since you can't connect the two. Apple-certified DACs cost a fortune (in my opinion) too. For a laptop though? Sure thing, depending on how good your laptop's soundcard is of course. It makes a pretty noticeable difference in the soundstage and instrument separation/clarity from my laptops.


----------



## cujobob

hifimeDIY has a USB hub for iPad that may work for an iPod so that you can connect a DAC.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> 1. I would say an external amp for a car stereo system isn't necessary based on my experience with the O2 and C5. With my setup (iPhone, FiiO L3, C5, cassette tape adaptor, car stereo system), the C5's bass was really distorted at high volume levels out of the C5, and was even worse with the bass boost on.


 
   
  Adding an amp has only helped in every case I've seen. Many car auxiliary inputs expect 1V, 2V or even 4VRMS line input, and have a high impedance input. So, pre-amplification is generally helpful in reaching the maximum signal input.


----------



## ThurstonX

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Adding an amp has only helped in every case I've seen. Many car auxiliary inputs expect 1V, 2V or even 4VRMS line input, and have a high impedance input. So, pre-amplification is generally helpful in reaching the maximum signal input.


 
  Thanks, John and miceblue.  I suppose it can't hurt to test it out.  May have to schedule a little drive time Thursday afternoon/evening.  Spring is in the air... may as well add a little music to the mix


----------



## ThurstonX

Can I assume that when connecting my laptop to the C5, I should tell the laptop that I'm using Line Out?  Whenever anything is plugged into that jack, I get a pop-up asking what I've plugged in.  Usually it's Headphones, but I'm guessing Line Out would be the right choice for the C5.  TIA.


----------



## miceblue

jseaber said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > 1. I would say an external amp for a car stereo system isn't necessary based on my experience with the O2 and C5. With my setup (iPhone, FiiO L3, C5, cassette tape adaptor, car stereo system), the C5's bass was really distorted at high volume levels out of the C5, and was even worse with the bass boost on.
> ...




Huh, I didn't know that. I wonder what kind of input I've been using then with the cassette tape adaptor. It was originally bought to connect an iPod Video to the car's speaker system but the sound quality was bever up to par with CDs.


----------



## Mutnat

Quote: 





cujobob said:


> hifimeDIY has a USB hub for iPad that may work for an iPod so that you can connect a DAC.


 
   
  Hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I'm 95%+ sure that only the iPad allows connection to a regular DAC (via the camera connection kit IIRC) and that the same technique does NOT work for iPod and iPhone.


----------



## thor777

I can confirm John's statement that the sound is improved when adding an amp.  I triple amp using my Cowon Z2 > C5 > car stereo and it sounds great.  Even when I was using the CmoyBB it sounded good.  Definitely better than going directly from DAP to car stereo.  Also, from the Ipod Classic Rockbox thread, Saratoga mentioned that even when you use a LOD, the signal is still amped when coming out of the Ipod, it's just that Rockbox automatically sets the volume to 0db.  So in fact, you will be triple amping, just like me.
  Quote: 





thurstonx said:


> Just got the tracking # for my *RED* C5
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Adding an amp has only helped in every case I've seen. Many car auxiliary inputs expect 1V, 2V or even 4VRMS line input, and have a high impedance input. So, pre-amplification is generally helpful in reaching the maximum signal input.


----------



## jonbmet

Figured I'd show off my portable rig in here since the c5 has a lot to do with how good it sounds. Not sure if it was intentional, but the ipod classic and the c5 housing are nearly the same color....I personally love how they look and sound together.


----------



## imackler

Quote: 





jonbmet said:


> Figured I'd show off my portable rig in here since the c5 has a lot to do with how good it sounds. Not sure if it was intentional, but the ipod classic and the c5 housing are nearly the same color....I personally love how they look and sound together.


 
   
  What fiio line out are you using? I have one but it's too long so that it I feel like it is putting too much stress on both ipod and amp; I haven't stacked them for that reason...


----------



## nOtEcH

Looks like the FiiO L9.
Here is a picture of my setup with the FiiO L9 (from the other side):
http://www.head-fi.org/content/type/61/id/805087/

I am using a Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3 LOD now though.. and it sounds very good by the way!


----------



## Dark Helmet

Any one pair the C5 with a Colorfly C3?  If so, I would love to hear your impresions.


----------



## miceblue

I posted my impressions in the FiiO E12 thread, but I definitely think the C5 is worth the price difference.
   
  Comparisons to C5:
  In short, I'd say the C5 is worth the price difference between the E12 ($60 USD).

 More pocket-friendly interface
 More portable form-factor
 More space for jacks on the front-plate
 Easier-to-use volume controls
 Deeper, larger "theater" bass boost [perhaps pre-mass-release E12 would have been like this]
 Larger soundstage with better instrument separation
 Closer in sound to my reference amp, Objective 2
 Clearer midrange
 More detail in the treble
 More fatiguing during long listening sessions
 No channel imbalance
 No noise on high-gain mode


----------



## jonbmet

Quote: 





imackler said:


> What fiio line out are you using? I have one but it's too long so that it I feel like it is putting too much stress on both ipod and amp; I haven't stacked them for that reason...


 

 It's the fiio L9. It fits pretty well, but I think I'll replace it soon...its the weak link in the line now. I really like the moon audio cable on the m80's so I might pick up one if their LODs.


----------



## jonbmet

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> I posted my impressions in the FiiO E12 thread, but I definitely think the C5 is worth the price difference.
> 
> Comparisons to C5:
> In short, I'd say the C5 is worth the price difference between the E12 ($60 USD).
> ...


 

 I have the fiio e11...not sure how it compares to the e12, but the C5 definitely has the e11 beat in detail. The volume control (looks similar to the e12) is hard to turn when stacked on my ipod. Power wise they seem about the same to me. The only thing I like better on the e11 is the multiple bass boost settings. Even on the highest e11 bass boost I find it listenable. The C5 is just too much for me. I like your term 'theatre' bass boost as that's all I could use if for....actions movies.


----------



## Axe93

Does the bass more controlled than JDSLabs C421 OPA2227 based and does the bass more punchy than O2 without toggling the bass boost on? Still wondering about the bass performance in stock form, since that is one reason I avoid O2. I like to have more punch than O2 provide, and if C5 repair that, I'll consider getting this.


----------



## ClieOS

Here is my impression so far.
   
  Quote: 





clieos said:


> Some quick impression on JDS Labs C5 vs C421 and O2 - First, C5 is definitely an overall improvement over C421-AD8620 and much closer to the neutrality of O2. The bass boost however is also noticeable boomier than C421, likely because C5 bass boost is wider. Not bad per se, but I prefer C421's bass boost a little more. C5 sounds like a 'baby O2', the only difference I have noticed so far is on the soundstage. Depth is comparable but width is about 5%~10% smaller. The small compression might leave an impression of warmth - but in close listening, it really isn't warmth or forwardness. It is in fact a smaller image IMO. However, the difference is not something most will take note of unless listen to both side by side. Overall, I'll call C5 a solid winner for now. More detail will be covered in the review.


----------



## ClieOS

Oh, forgot to mention that the initial measurement puts output impedance at 2 ohm.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Here is my impression so far.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
  Nice impressions *ClieOS*.
   
   
  I was browsing JDS Labs's blog page yesterday and it looks like they updated the measurements section to include a 32 Ω load.
  Quote: 





> THD+N (20-20kHz, 32 Ω) 0.0045%
> Max Output @ 32Ω 1.010 VRMS


 
   
  Output impedance (slightly different from the original measurement of 2 Ω):
  Quote: 





> Output Impedance 2.2 Ω


 
   
  The battery life specs have also been updated:
  Quote: 





> Battery Run Time 11-14 Hours


 
   
  I still find disagreement with the battery charging time though (it takes approximately 2.5 hours to charge my C5 from dead to fully-charged from the two times I tested; unless the charging LED turning off doesn't really indicate the battery is fully-charged):
  Quote: 





> Charge Time 2 Hrs to 80%, < 4 Hrs to 100%


 
   
  The firmware for the C5 has also been slightly updated (v1.0.4 or v1.0.5 now):
  It looks like the main change is the delay for the C5 to turn on and stabilise
  Quote: 





> delay(200); [instead of the original 50]   // Wait for power to stabilize
> digitalWrite(PWRVOLLED, LOW);   // Turn Power LED on, turn gain and bass LEDs off [bass and gain LEDs? possible D.I.Y. things since there is no bass nor gain LED]


----------



## chemist323

Can someone recommend a good 3.5 mini cable (<$50, preferably <$20-30 if possible) to connect a C5 to ipod touch 5.  It seems the lightning adapter -> LOD would be too much cable-age and I'd like to keep it as minimal as possible.  I wish I could build the cable myself as I've seen in other posts, but as a medical intern, the free time i have i'd rather sleep or spend time with family.  Appreciate your help!


----------



## Thlayli

Are you looking for a 3.5 to 3.5 cable? JDS sells those on their website under the cables section. It would be best if you clarified a bit on what you would like.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





chemist323 said:


> Can someone recommend a good 3.5 mini cable (<$50, preferably <$20-30 if possible) to connect a C5 to ipod 5.  It seems the lightning adapter -> LOD would be too much cable-age and I'd like to keep it as minimal as possible.  I wish I could build the cable myself as I've seen in other posts, but as a medical intern, the free time i have i'd rather sleep or spend time with family.  Appreciate your help!


 
  Guh, that new Lightning Adaptor has created chaos in the audiophile world. I don't know of any reasonable solution to having a shorter cable except for maybe....nope never mind, it's an overpriced $50+ USD cable.
   
  As Thlayli said, you could just use a 3.5 mm to 3.5 mm cable. It doesn't bypass the iDevice's internal headphone amplifier though. Maybe a FiiO L2 or L8?


----------



## chemist323

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Guh, that new Lightning Adaptor has created chaos in the audiophile world. I don't know of any reasonable solution to having a shorter cable except for maybe....nope never mind, it's an overpriced $50+ USD cable.
> 
> As Thlayli said, you could just use a 3.5 mm to 3.5 mm cable. It doesn't bypass the iDevice's internal headphone amplifier though. Maybe a FiiO L2 or L8?


 
   
  'Hey Thlayli, sorry about that, yes I'm talking about the 3.5 to 3.5.
  Thanks miceblue...I am definitely hating this new lightning connection.  Even on my car stereo, the new ipod requires additional cables and therefore, more $$$.  So frustrating.  
   
  Is there any difference silver and non silver (i.e. Fiio L2 or L8) 3.5 interconnect cables?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> It looks like the main change is the delay for the C5 to turn on and stabilise


 
  That's probably to improve click and pop performance.


----------



## Bill-P

Quote: 





chemist323 said:


> Can someone recommend a good 3.5 mini cable (<$50, preferably <$20-30 if possible) to connect a C5 to ipod 5.  It seems the lightning adapter -> LOD would be too much cable-age and I'd like to keep it as minimal as possible.  I wish I could build the cable myself as I've seen in other posts, but as a medical intern, the free time i have i'd rather sleep or spend time with family.  Appreciate your help!


 
   
  You can just use a regular 3.5 -> 3.5 cable.
   
  The iPod Touch 5 (I'm assuming this is what you mean by "iPod 5") has improved a lot in quality, so double-amping is not as bad as it seems.


----------



## rckyosho

Quote: 





chemist323 said:


> Can someone recommend a good 3.5 mini cable (<$50, preferably <$20-30 if possible) to connect a C5 to ipod touch 5.  It seems the lightning adapter -> LOD would be too much cable-age and I'd like to keep it as minimal as possible.  I wish I could build the cable myself as I've seen in other posts, but as a medical intern, the free time i have i'd rather sleep or spend time with family.  Appreciate your help!


 
  Try this it's 10cm long,
http://www.ebay.com.sg/itm/Pailiccs-3-5mm-3-5mm-Male-Red-Stereo-Audio-Cord-Line-in-Cable-/380381201532?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item58907c847c#ht_1607wt_906
   
  or this bit shorther around 8cm long.
http://www.ebay.com.sg/itm/HIFI-CABLE-Pailiccs-3-5-3-5-audio-cable-adater-MAC-/180789616727?pt=UK_MP3_Player_Accessories_Cables_Adapters&hash=item2a17e6a057#ht_2120wt_906
   
  Both are nicely build and will fit your budget nicely.


----------



## miceblue

Words from a fellow Head-Fier:
  Quote: 





> The volumer-clicker was real fun to mess around with on the C5.
> ...
> The C5s were impressively clean. Could use a bit more treble for my tastes. Just clean, flat for the most part, good punch and nothing audibly wrong with them.


 
  Quote: 





> For a second I didn't even realize it was on as I thought I had the Annies on instead of the Qs (explains the messy cables). Then I realized I had the Qs on.
> So from that I can gauge that the Annies basically have a similar boost as with the C5 boost on the Qs. Otherwise they're so identical I got confused.


 
  ^ in other words, the bass boost is quite effective for the K 701/Q 701, and I agree with that.
   
  I don't know what JDS Labs did for the bass boost, but I really love it, hahaha. The E12's bass boost sounds more like a narrow mid-bass boost whereas the C5 has more of a wide sub-bass boost. I find the C5's bass boost much cleaner-sounding than that of the E12 based on today's mobile listening sessions.


----------



## rckyosho

miceblue said:


> Words from a fellow Head-Fier:
> ^ in other words, the bass boost is quite effective for the K 701/Q 701, and I agree with that.
> 
> I don't know what JDS Labs did for the bass boost, but I really love it, hahaha. The E12's bass boost sounds more like a narrow mid-bass boost whereas the C5 has more of a wide sub-bass boost. I find the C5's bass boost much cleaner-sounding than that of the E12 based on today's mobile listening sessions.



Yes I too would be in agreement for the bass boost pairing of the C5 and K701 and it is quite effective with certain kind of music that does'nt have bass in it as I just find the instrument more pleasing to hear like the impact of the lower notes on a piano or the guitar strings being pluck or strum...they just sound much more fuller that way.

On another note and since I'm still awaiting for my thermistor to arrive to test it out on my S3 battery mod and have really nothing better to do , I'd thought I'd just post the total playback time I get with the S3 battery(with the C5 battery board transplant).

Once I get my thermistor I will try and test if it's and easy working mod and worth the hassle or not and if it's working I might even post a how to later on.Wish me luck.


----------



## Thlayli

Well coming back to the C5s, I'm wondering should i get the ODAC and C5 combo. Or am i better off using O2 combo. my main issue for this is mobility and durability. I'm carrying everything in an attache case so major damage can be avoided, but small bumps are unavoidable. I don't want to get something that would be too fragile for constant carrying.


----------



## jonbmet

Quote: 





thlayli said:


> Well coming back to the C5s, I'm wondering should i get the ODAC and C5 combo. Or am i better off using O2 combo. my main issue for this is mobility and durability. I'm carrying everything in an attache case so major damage can be avoided, but small bumps are unavoidable. I don't want to get something that would be too fragile for constant carrying.


 
  Attache case....like James Bond?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





thlayli said:


> Well coming back to the C5s, I'm wondering should i get the ODAC and C5 combo. Or am i better off using O2 combo. my main issue for this is mobility and durability. I'm carrying everything in an attache case so major damage can be avoided, but small bumps are unavoidable. I don't want to get something that would be too fragile for constant carrying.


 
  ODAC/C5 combo sounds good and is more portable. ODAC/O2 sounds better but is less portable.
   
  ODAC/O2 as a combo unit would probably sustain less total damage than the ODAC/C5 as separate units.
   
  All 3 units are pretty durable, but I feel that the C5 and ODAC's smaller form-factor make it more durable. I would be less worried about dropping my C5 and ODAC than the O2.


----------



## Thlayli

Mine is not a zero halliburton but i got about a 4 in aluminum case. i have 2 in left after putting in my laptop. i'm guessing ODAC would be too big. unless it's got a 4 width cause i can fit something next to my laptop since i only use 15 in of the 17 in.


----------



## kkfan

miceblue said:


> Nice impressions *ClieOS*.
> 
> 
> [rule]I was browsing JDS Labs's blog page yesterday and it looks like they updated the measurements section to include a 32 Ω load.
> ...




Is the firmware in the C5 user-upgradable?


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





kkfan said:


> Is the firmware in the C5 user-upgradable?


 
   
  Yes, if you have an ISP programmer and 6-pin header.
   
  The firmware changes mentioned above do not affect performance. In production testing, we found that 2% of C5's could not boot properly due to [exceptionally] above average capacitor values on the supply rails. Longer boot delay enables proper booting for every C5 we've tested to date.
   
  Summary: Firmware upgrade is *not *necessary if you already own a C5. Every unit is tested.


----------



## kkfan

jseaber said:


> Yes, if you have an ISP programmer and 6-pin header.
> 
> The firmware changes mentioned above do not affect performance. In production testing, we found that 2% of C5's could not boot properly due to [exceptionally] above average capacitor values on the supply rails. Longer boot delay enables proper booting for every C5 we've tested to date.
> 
> Summary: Firmware upgrade is *not* necessary if you already own a C5. Every unit is tested.




Thanks for that info!

Relieved to hear the upgrade is not necessary. Doubt I'd have the technical know-how to do it anyway.


----------



## ThurstonX

Finally getting around to posting a few thoughts on the wonderful C5.
   
  Used with my Rockbox'd iPod Classic 160GB through the FiiO L3 LOD cable, with Phiaton PS210 earbuds and AKG K550s, it is noticeably better than either through the headphone jack. A bit of a "Duh..." moment, but that's where I started. Just going from memory, I'd say the sound was "cleaner." I always felt the iPod had trouble driving both, even they're 32 Ohms. I found the definition, esp. the lower frequencies, to be superb.  Bass Boost was way too much for me, but I'm not a basshead.  I prefer a flatter, more neutral sound. I can always EQ it up with Rockbox, if something sounds a bit thin.
   
  Results are the same when using my laptop (Toshiba Qosmio Win7 Home Prem. with a Realtek HD ALC269, latest drivers). I used Winamp's DirectSound output, with playback in Windows set for 24-bit 96 KHz. I tested with the 24-bit 96 KHz version of "Clockwork Angels" by Rush. I mainly used the hard-driving, bombastic (I mean that in the best possible way!) "Headlong Flight" (excellent bass work), and the much more nuanced "The Garden" (strings, acoustic guitar parts; beautiful song). After listening once through, I picked a couple passages in each, then went back and forth between K550s directly into the headphone jack, and through the C5. The direct connection, while nicely defined, proved a tad harsh, and ultimately fatiguing. The C5 warmed up the sound nicely, adding noticeable oomph to the low end, and smoothing out the mids and highs, while not sacrificing definition. All that equals a far less fatiguing experience. Well, it wasn't fatiguing at all! Just a joy to listen to. I'd also say that the sound stage of the K550s benefited a lot from the C5's presentation. Whether or not that's due to the warmer, more relaxed sound, or just my imagination, I love what I hear. All this done with a cheap 3.5mm interconnect cable (at least it's gold tipped!). May have to invest in a better cable, as this is how I will listen to my 24-bit 96/192 KHz FLACs.
   
  Now for the real revelation. In a previous post I asked about using the C5 with a car stereo. I'm happy to report that the C5 does wonders vs. going straight from the iPod's headphone jack or LOD cable. Road conditions, windows opened or closed, traffic, engine noise, etc., all factor into the overall sound. I have two cars with radically different sound systems and delivery methods. My "better" setup uses an old Pioneer DEH-P6400 with a CD-RB10 IP-Bus-RCA Interconnector for the AUX IN. My other car lacks an AUX IN, so I use an old iRiver FM transmitter that plugs into the 12-volt jack. Needless to say, that's a less-than-optimal delivery method, and it always showed when connecting to the iPod's headphone jack. Both systems definitely sound better with the C5 in the chain, but the sound through the FM transmitter is dramatically better. Gone is that harshness that I endured. Everything is so much smoother.
   
  So, all in all, I couldn't be happier with my first amp. The anodized red is gorgeous and cleans off easily when it appears scratched. The FiiO L3 LOD cable makes it easy to access the volume control. And, LOL, I just realized I forgot about the push button gain control. Not sure what I've been using, but I'm also sure I never purposefully pressed it. Apparently it was on the higher setting. And apparently I prefer it that way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But perhaps I'll play with that more now.
   
  As far as marrying C5 to iPod, I opted to use what I had lying around, with a grateful nod to the poster who suggested using blue painters tape as a base. Ultimately, I might switch to the fancy 3M interlocking stuff. Also, I like the clear sticky feet on the top of the C5. They don't look awful, and they certainly are non-skid. Lastly, I put the "soft" side of the Velcro on the bottom of the C5, for  those times it will be resting on a table, sans iPod.
   
  Here are some pix.


----------



## ostewart

Thanks for your input, nice rigs!

Glad you love the C5, mine hasn't been used recently as my CIEM's are back for a refit.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> Thanks for your input, nice rigs!
> 
> Glad you love the C5, mine hasn't been used recently as my CIEM's are back for a refit.


 
   
  Unacceptable


----------



## ostewart

Using the C5 with Brainwavz M5 really isn't necessary, I'll wait till my CIEM's are back then post more pictures (customs are getting a new look)


----------



## ThurstonX

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> Using the C5 with Brainwavz M5 really isn't necessary, I'll wait till my CIEM's are back then post more pictures (customs are getting a new look)


 
   
  So do you have tiny stickers on your Brainwavz that read: "My other buds are Heir CIEMs" ?


----------



## ostewart

Alclair actually 
No I dont  I should make a sign and walk around with it (depressed because I have to use M5 instead of my lovely CIEM's)


----------



## ThurstonX

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> Alclair actually
> No I dont  I should make a sign and walk around with it (depressed because I have to use M5 instead of my lovely CIEM's)


 
   
  I stand corrected 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They look nice. Which model do you have? Pardon my inquisitiveness, but "Custom" means fitted for your ears, yes? If so, how does that work? If not, what does "Custom" signify?
   
  To keep it on-topic, are the M5s just too low-end to benefit from the C5? My Phiaton PS210s are pretty low-mid range, but they definitely benefit, at least from my Rockbox'd iPod Classic.
   
  Cheers


----------



## ostewart

Alclair reference monitor, custom fit to my ear is correct. You get ear impressions made by an audiologist, send them to the company and they make acrylic shelled in-ears, some make them from silicone too

M5 really doesn't gain anything from being amped IMO, I really am not a big fan of the M5.


----------



## ThurstonX

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> Alclair reference monitor, custom fit to my ear is correct. You get ear impressions made by an audiologist, send them to the company and they make acrylic shelled in-ears, some make them from silicone too
> 
> M5 really doesn't gain anything from being amped IMO, I really am not a big fan of the M5.


 
   
  Thanks for the explanation. Hope you get your CIEMs back soon so you can get back to your C5


----------



## Triggerfish

By chance has anyone tried a C5 with an ES10?  Strongly considering this as my new amp, but was hoping someone had tried this pairing.


----------



## rckyosho

Just an update, the thermistor works with the S3 battery.Not going to post a how to as I could not find the same connectors and not going to disassemble the C5 again as I have manage to get both my mod of the UD-100 DAC and the S3 battery working all in the same case and happy with it.Below are some photos that for your ogling pleasure.
Warning disclaimer to those intending to do my mods, do it at your own risk!


----------



## zazex

Anyone know of a protective outer case or sleeve for the C5?
   
  (I started a separate thread with this question, but got to thinking
  it may belong in this well-trafficked thread.)
   
  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated; I'm concerned
  about taking my C5 outside lest it meet Mr.Asphalt - always
  a possibility regardless of the amount of care one uses...


----------



## thor777

I sprayed mine with clear gloss acrylic bought from Walmart to make the red have more pop and also provides some protection against minor scratches.  I've already had some scratches and the gloss coat did come off but the anodized red coating was not affected.  I'll probably reapply the gloss coat in the future if it gets more scratches.
   
  Quote: 





zazex said:


> Anyone know of a protective outer case or sleeve for the C5?
> 
> (I started a separate thread with this question, but got to thinking
> it may belong in this well-trafficked thread.)
> ...


----------



## rckyosho

Quote: 





zazex said:


> Anyone know of a protective outer case or sleeve for the C5?
> 
> (I started a separate thread with this question, but got to thinking
> it may belong in this well-trafficked thread.)
> ...


 
  Will *this* do? Dimension for the case 100x65x15mm (LxWxD) while the C5 dimension is 99.5x61.5x14mm(LxWxD)


----------



## zazex

Quote: 





thor777 said:


> I sprayed mine with clear gloss acrylic bought from Walmart to make the red have more pop and also provides some protection against minor scratches.  I've already had some scratches and the gloss coat did come off but the anodized red coating was not affected.  I'll probably reapply the gloss coat in the future if it gets more scratches.


 
   
  Interesting - I think, though, I'd rather have something that's removable.
   
   
  Quote: 





rckyosho said:


> Will *this* do? Dimension for the case 100x65x15mm (LxWxD) while the C5 dimension is 99.5x61.5x14mm(LxWxD)


 
   
  Yes, looks OK, at least for starters - where does one find this item?
  Makes me think I should be looking in a well stocked camera store (B&H, perhaps) at
  cases for small point and shoot cameras.
   
  Or pouches/cases for cell phones.
   
  Thanks for the input!
   
   
  EDIT - sorry, just noticed your bright red print was a link to the item on eBay.


----------



## luisdent

Here's my setup if anyone is interested:
   
  If I carry my earphones, I carry my amp and vice versa...
   
  I also keep a few useful adapters and cables as I'm commonly around friends and family where I might share music or record instruments and need monitoring with my earphones.  I bought a waterproof plastic case from Big Lots (yuck) for $1.25.  Yes, for you sweet-hawt, a dollah-twin-tee-fyve!  Sorry...  Anyhow, it is very portable and fits great in my small sling bag, but is also very easy to carry with one hand.
   
   
\
   
  I used the adhesives on both sides (8 total).  One side for protection on the surface it lies on the other side to protect my amp and ipod touch so I can lay them bare on each other.
   

   
  Call me particular, but I love my custom APP "paint job."   So, I found a small computer component bag from some expansion card or something lying around and I put the C5 in that so things don't scratch it in the case.
   

   
  The amp and 1/4" adapter fit "perfectly" in the case with enough room to remove the device but it doesn't really wiggle at all once everything is in the case and it's shut.
   

   
  Plop the line-out cable and a headphone splitter in there...
   

   
  Throw in them old etymotic er4s-ums....  Sometime I put the 3.5 monster cable in there as well if I wrap it around the er4s just right, but I don't always take that...
   

   
  Snap that baby shut...
   

   
  Voila!  Portable music entertainment system.  You can see it's about the size of my hand.  I have pretty small hands too.  Most male's fingers extend about half an inch beyond mine. :-o
   

   
  I don't put my ipod in the case, because I always have it in my pocket.  I use it for other things than music as well and need it readily accessible.  There's also the little apple lightening adapter that fits in there perfectly, but I forgot it in my car.   Anyhow, that's one option for storage if anyone else has a similar need.  It works perfectly for me...


----------



## ThurstonX

lusident,
  I like the practicality and economy of your traveling solution.  It's interesting what people come up with.  The eBay camera case looks great for the C5 only.  If it had more room (let's call it height), and could accommodate a married C5-iPod, I'd be all over it.  For years I've been using an old Case Logic portable CD player pouch for my DAPs (deceased iRiver; now iPod Classic).  It has two compartments (top and bottom; bottom being the main, roomier one for the player; top holds cables, adapters, SD Cards, thumb drive, kitchen sink 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )  And I just discovered it has a little rain hoodie behind the third zipper!  Just like my LL Bean jacket.  LOL.  Good know.
   
  Here are some pix


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





thurstonx said:


> lusident,
> I like the practicality and economy of your traveling solution.  It's interesting what people come up with.


 
   
  Thanks, I thought maybe I was the only one that carried all this stuff around everywhere I go.    I don't know anyone around here that even has nice earphones let alone an amp.   People see them in my bag and ask what they are and think I'm weird.  :-/  hehe.  Oh well.  At least I'm enjoying incredible music everywhere I gooooooo!


----------



## ThurstonX

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Thanks, I thought maybe I was the only one that carried all this stuff around everywhere I go.    I don't know anyone around here that even has nice earphones let alone an amp.   People see them in my bag and ask what they are and think I'm weird.  :-/  hehe.  Oh well.  At least I'm enjoying incredible music everywhere I gooooooo!


 
   
  Their loss


----------



## miceblue

On the topic of their rigs, I like the size of the C5. I think a thinner amp would just feel weird to me, and a larger amp like the E12 feels too large. With the iPhone 4, the size of the C5 seems "just right" in my opinion.


----------



## rckyosho

Don't worry.....you guys are not the only ones that carry around gears to enjoy music everywhere(one of the main reason why I married the C5,UD100 and the S3 batt all in one very portable C5 case with cables all attached) and with the rugged and foldable M-100 headphones with my S3 phone I too do the same and currently fufill all my mobile needs .Though I just shoved everthing in my sling bag when transporting it.

Those removable strap velcros you see are double purpose to protect it and to attach my S3 with.Happy listening all!


----------



## luisdent

rckyosho said:


> Don't worry.....you guys are not the only ones that carry around gears to enjoy music everywhere(one of the main reason why I married the C5,UD100 and the S3 batt all in one very portable C5 case with cables all attached) and with the rugged and foldable M-100 headphones with my S3 phone I too do the same and currently fufill all my mobile needs .Though I just shoved everthing in my sling bag when transporting it.
> 
> Those removable strap velcros you see are double purpose to protect it and to attach my S3 with.Happy listening all!




Not to get off topic, but can I ask what sling bag you have? I'm looking to upgrade and can't find a good one...


----------



## hoichi

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Not to get off topic, but can I ask what sling bag you have? I'm looking to upgrade and can't find a good one...


 
  Sorry to barge in, but have you tried carryology.com?


----------



## Mooses9

can anyone report back on how the C5 sounds with the w4r? i just bought the C5 and a new LOD the whiplash micro lod.....currently using a ALO Audio pure solid silver lod and the c421 8620 sounds great. eager to hear the differences the c5 has to offer......i hope all for the better.
   
  to me there are alot of other amp companies out there making good amps. but jds labs seems to create amplifiers for about half the price of some amps and sound just as good or better. than their counter parts at 2 or 3 times the price.


----------



## luisdent

mooses9 said:


> can anyone report back on how the C5 sounds with the w4r? i just bought the C5 and a new LOD the whiplash micro lod.....currently using a ALO Audio pure solid silver lod and the c421 8620 sounds great. eager to hear the differences the c5 has to offer......i hope all for the better.
> 
> to me there are alot of other amp companies out there making good amps. but jds labs seems to create amplifiers for about half the price of some amps and sound just as good or better. than their counter parts at 2 or 3 times the price.




I'm not sure how it would compare to your setup, but my w4r with the c5 gives a small but noticeable improvement over the iPod headphone out. There is more space between instruments, the overall sound is tighter and crisper without being brighter in the treble sense, and things just sound a bit more real. I can't compare to the other amp however. Sorry.


----------



## rckyosho

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Not to get off topic, but can I ask what sling bag you have? I'm looking to upgrade and can't find a good one...


 
  I'm using the so called "Tactical Molle Utility Gear Shoulder Sling" like below...
   

   
  It comes in 3 sizes and colors....amazon or ebay should have these available.


----------



## Mooses9

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> I'm not sure how it would compare to your setup, but my w4r with the c5 gives a small but noticeable improvement over the iPod headphone out. There is more space between instruments, the overall sound is tighter and crisper without being brighter in the treble sense, and things just sound a bit more real. I can't compare to the other amp however. Sorry.


 
( wow really only a small improvement over a ipod geesh.
   
  are you using any kind of LOD or just a 3.5 to 3.5mm? 
   
  also are you still using the stock cable with the w4r or any kind of upgrade cable?
   
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   
  UPDATE: mail just came delivering the C5. initial impressions vs the c421, i see what you are saying with the crisper sound. i noticed the high seem to have more clarity and also like you said more space between instruments. with the short listening i did, i found the vocal and sound decay to be excellent. both male and female voices seem to dift off into nothingness, if you close your eyes and really just listen to the vocal decay it seems like the voice just hangs and floats away. really gives you a sense of width to the sound, to give you that length of trail to sound. 
   
  i also noticed which i like, coming from the shure se530 and 535 to the w4r is with the c5 it has a slight bump in the mids, and the bump in the mids seem to work in conjunction with the highs.
   
  on the build quality i find it to be excellent. its like they took the already great build quality of the c421 and took it farther and made it better. love the placement of the in and out  for headphones and LOD or mini to mini, i find the placement of the in and out on the c421 to be troublesome if you are looking to use a right side out LOD with a right angle plug its too far over on the right which makes everything off center as far as the amp/lod/source with the c5 placement its better suited for LOD's of that design. LOVE the volume. i like a knob but this style of volume control feels great,accurate and gives a lower profile. i totally forgot you push in for volume gain, at first i was like ok bass boost check, wait no gain, then remembered lol. i love how they utilized the volume for both volume control and gain control, its like hiding features within features which i feel is space conserving and utilizes a cleaner look.
   
  another thing i like about the C5 vs the C421 is the fact that at very low volumes theres no channel imbalance like there is on the c421, Although at the volumes that the imbalance occurs with the c421 its extremely low and you really wouldnt be trying to listen to music at that low of volume. but still its a plus the c5 doesnt have that.
   
  so those are my initial feelings of the c5. overall very pleased with both sound and build quality


----------



## ostewart

Another happy C5 owner.
In my review on he first post, what do you think about my comparison to the same C421 you have?


----------



## Mooses9

yes your review between the new C5 and the c421 is very much on key.
   
  the c5 highs have more clarity and more detail vs the c421 
   
  the mids of the C5 are SLIGHTLY forward but its a nice smooth forwardness i feel between the clear highs and the slightly forward mids gives the c5 a audiophile sound.
   
  i definitly see what u are saying how the C5  is slightly more intimate on the soundstage (although it will depend on the iems or headphones you use as to how intimate the soundstage sounds) the C5 with the westone 4r gives the iems a slightly intimate sound while still maintaining its signature wide soundstage. kind of a interesting combo.
   
  the c421 does sound congested even though the soundstage sounds wider than the C5, BUT the C5 even wide a slightly intimate soundstage, it seems to have more space between the sound giving the sound more clarity and more depth.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





mooses9 said:


> ( wow really only a small improvement over a ipod geesh.
> 
> are you using any kind of LOD or just a 3.5 to 3.5mm?
> 
> also are you still using the stock cable with the w4r or any kind of upgrade cable?


 
   
  I'm using the fiio l3/l9.  Stock 4r cable. When I said "small", I suppose that term is relative.  It's big enough that I would never want to listen to my ipod without the amp, even if it was a little more inconvenient. ha.  So, to me it's noticeable enough.  But I think some people comparing them side by side might think "oh that's not really much better".  But then again, I suppose I "am" on an audiophile forum.  haha.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





rckyosho said:


> I'm using the so called "Tactical Molle Utility Gear Shoulder Sling" like below...
> 
> 
> 
> It comes in 3 sizes and colors....amazon or ebay should have these available.


 
  That's cool.  I'm using an old nintendo "zelda" sling bag made for a wii.  It works well, but the shape is more teardrop so it makes it a tad too small for my liking.  Your bag looks more like my 5.11 rush 12 bag I use most of the year.  Now that it's warm and I don't need winter stuff I want a smaller sling...  That site that was linked is cool.  I'll have to keep searching...


----------



## kkfan

rckyosho said:


> Will *[COLOR=FF0000]this[/COLOR]* do? Dimension for the case 100x65x15mm (LxWxD) while the C5 dimension is 99.5x61.5x14mm(LxWxD)




Thanks for that. Placed an order for one to carry my C5.


----------



## chengsta

Just got the c5 a few hours ago.  It's alot brighter compared to the e11, bass is just as powerful, maybe too powerful.  It caused my xba 40's to distort at medium bass volumes, whereas the e11 can crank the bass pretty high before the 40's started distorting.  My perception is that its bass hump is slightly higher than the e11's (hence the theater bass sound?), which is why the xba 40's distort at lower bass volumes on the c5.  My SOL republic tracks HD can handle the bass just fine though, so it's not the amp.  Anyway, it's so clear that I'm actually enjoying metal/rock/strings/voices again.  I stopped listening to that type since i got the 40 and e11 because they just didn't sound right haha.
   
   
  Edit: nvm about the issues with bass, its just a tad bit more powerful than the e11 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  The brightness and clarity just tricked me into thinking bass was weaker than it really is.  I feel that the balance between bass and clarity is really damn good with this amp!  I won't need the zo2 anymore!  Does anyone have a jh16pro and a c5, and wanna let me know how they pair up?  Especially with the bass boost on?


----------



## mtthefirst

Got my C5 a week ago. I feel that C5 is bright. May be a little bit too bright for my taste but when I pair it with my other m2m in stead of ALO SXC, it make the sound a lot warmer and that's a good thing to me. Here is my set up.


----------



## illusioned

this could be better for people like me who doesnt want to pay for shipping


----------



## luisdent

```

```
I've noticed a lot of people calling the c5 bright. Personally, I have to stress that it isn't bright. It's very flat. There are many factors that affect how it sounds with different earphones, such as impedance. What is most likely the case is that the last amp someone had was a different impedance causing attenuation. Now they're hear their earphones as they should sound. With a <2 ohm output it's very accurate to an earphone's intended sound based on impedance.

Just saying, take everyone's opinions, but realize the sound they hear is a result of many factors and not really indicative that the amp itself is bright or bassy or otherwise. The c5 has a very very flat response.


----------



## chengsta

Either way, I'm loving that flat response.  Just several hours alone with the C5 caused me to throw my zo2 and fiio e11 into the closet!


----------



## zazex

Late last night, listening to an album I know well
  which happens to have an exquisite production,
  I felt I liked the C5 over the O2.  I've been doing
  this comparison for a couple of weeks, but last
  night I heard a slightly more open soundstage 
  and slightly more clarity from the C5.
   
   
  I'm going to hunt around to see if there's a thread 
  perhaps better suited for this post, but I did want
  to post it before it evaporated into trying to do
  it perfectly.
   
  Album: Year of the Cat (remastered version),
  Artist: Al Stewart
  Producer: Alan Parsons
  Player: Sansa Fuze 8GB
  LOD: Custom
  File Type: FLAC
  Headphones: Sony MDR-7520


----------



## jonbmet

Quote: 





mtthefirst said:


> Got my C5 a week ago. I feel that C5 is bright. May be a little bit too bright for my taste but when I pair it with my other m2m in stead of ALO SXC, it make the sound a lot warmer and that's a good thing to me. Here is my set up.


 
   

 I believe I saw your dd and c5 rig in the dd thread. I use mine a lot with a stiff headphone cable and the rig sitting on a desktop. The fact that the usb and line out are on opposite ends of the dd is a little inconvenient for me since the ipod is upside down to where I'm sitting....looks like you have the same thing going on. I think I'll buy a long mini to mini cable or longer usb and run it the length of the rig so I can have everything oriented the 'right' way. Anyway....here's a crappy pic of my c5/ dd rig.
   
   
  (image missing)


----------



## luisdent

zazex said:


> Late last night, listening to an album I know well
> which happens to have an exquisite production,
> I felt I liked the C5 over the O2.  I've been doing
> this comparison for a couple of weeks, but last
> ...




AP is the MAN!


----------



## zazex

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> AP is the MAN!


 
   
  Indeed!


----------



## Gintaras

+1 on AP, a month ago i was to his concert, by far one of my most favorite musicians and never forget he was producing Pink Floyd for some time and PF for me is the top rock group along with LZ and YES.


----------



## Mooses9

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Code:
> 
> ```
> 
> ...


 
   
  Those are ALOT of great points. 
   
  i think alot of other things not taking into consideration.
   
  #1 headphones or earphones- i dont feel alot of people are taking into consideration that amplifiers are amplifying the sound of music and the sound is going through the iem's some some iems might be bright already and a amplifier that is slightly bring might come across as even brighter. also a more warmer iem might sound more neutral in sound if the iem is warmer and the amp slightly brightens the sound giving the sound more of a balanced sound.  so headphones or iems need to be taken into consideration as to how the amplifier is going to sound,
   
  #2 source- if you are using a ipod or cellphone and then using the headphone jack out to the amplifier. you are just amplifying the stock ipod or phone amplifier. listening to the amplifier C5 this way is not giving the real sound of the C5. you are getting a mix between the source internal amplifier and the C5 amplifier.
   
  #3 Lod/Mini to mini- now if you are using a source and your using a line out dock straight to the C5 amplifier this is going to give you a better idea of how this amplifier actually sounds. the sound signature of the amplifier itsself. HOWEVER a LOD or mini to mini can also alter the sound. how? well that depends on the type of wire used. are you using occ copper wire? occ silver wire? solid silver wire? copper has more of a dynamic sound. silver has more of a brighter sound........so taking this into consideration a silver or copper lod could add more of a dynamic or brighter sound to the Amplifier. getting more into it, connectors can also slightly effect the sound......LOD give you the best signal out from your source to the amplifier.
   
  #4 Headphone Cable/Cable Upgrade- JUST like the LOD or mini to mini Cable upgrades will also effect the sound of the headphones and amplifier. depending on the wire such as silver or copper. can give your headphones or iems more of a dynamic or brighter sound......cables can also effect the sound such as soundstage,highs,mids,lows,clarity,transparency,ect,ect,ect
   
  i think all of the above should be taken into consideration before coming to a conclusion as to what the amp sounds like.....as everyone doesnt have the exactly same setup, thus giving the amplifier different sounds......i just dont think ppl take other aspects of their equipment into consideration that are effecting the sound of the Amplifier......


----------



## lausar

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Code:
> 
> ```
> 
> ...


 
  I agree.  Not bright at all with my ATH-M50 phones and they're 32 ohm.
[size=1.7em]  [/size]


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> I've noticed a lot of people calling the c5 bright. Personally, I have to stress that it isn't bright. It's very flat. There are many factors that affect how it sounds with different earphones, such as impedance. What is most likely the case is that the last amp someone had was a different impedance causing attenuation. Now they're hear their earphones as they should sound. With a <2 ohm output it's very accurate to an earphone's intended sound based on impedance.
> 
> Just saying, take everyone's opinions, but realize the sound they hear is a result of many factors and not really indicative that the amp itself is bright or bassy or otherwise. The c5 has a very very flat response.


 
  If the O2 is considered neutral, as it is my reference amp of choice, then yes I find the C5 to sound be a bit brighter than neutral. That's been the case regardless of the headphones/earphones I've tried.
  Of course the C5 measured to have a flat frequency response curve, most amps do nowadays, but factors other than the frequency response are responsible for an amp's sound.


----------



## ostewart

I'll also confirm that the C5 is a tad brighter than the O2. The O2's treble seems a bit more tame.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> I'll also confirm that the C5 is a tad brighter than the O2. The O2's treble seems a bit more tame.


 
   
  Are you hearing "crispness", where the O2 is a bit more "full" between instruments or with each note?  The ipod touch 5th gen is practically a ruler flat line measured.  My C5 sounds identical in frequency response, but it is "clearer", "crisper", more airy and distinct, etc.  Just curious.  You may have meant this, but I think the word "brighter" implies boosted treble, which I don't believe the C5 has.  But I think there can in fact be a few different types of "brightness" or the impression of brightness from other factors...


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  From Stereophile's audio glossary, and using this instrument frequency chart:
  Quote: 





> _bright, brilliant_ The most often misused terms in audio, these describe the degree to which reproduced sound has a hard, crisp edge to it. Brightness relates to the energy content in the 4kHz-8kHz band. It is _not_ related to output in the extreme-high-frequency range. All live sound has brightness; it is a problem only when it is excessive.


 
  Upper violin notes, female vocals, snare drum hits, and some cymbal crashes tend to have a harder "bite" compared to the O2. The O2 with the same songs, same headphones/earphones sounds more relaxing and less grating.
   
  If this does not describe "bright", then what does?
   
  I'm not saying the C5 sounds bad, but I'm just re-iterating my comparisons to the O2.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> From Stereophile's audio glossary, and using this instrument frequency chart:
> Upper violin notes, female vocals, snare drum hits, and some cymbal crashes tend to have a harder "bite" compared to the O2. The O2 with the same songs, same headphones/earphones sounds more relaxing and less grating.
> 
> If this does not describe "bright", then what does?
> ...


 
   
  No that's exactly what bright should be.  Not treble, but brightness.  Unfortunately, most people think of brightness simply as more treble.  I just wanted to stress that the c5 frequency response is flat in the treble.  It is a somewhat bright amp though, but in a good way in my opinion.  It makes a set like the er4s and pfe112 sound dynamic and clear.


----------



## Mooses9

i feel what people might be hearing is the slight bump in the mids, bringing them slightly forward. that mixed with clearer sparkly highs, along with a more overall crisp sound. this all taken into consideration is probably this ''bright'' sound.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





mtthefirst said:


> Got my C5 a week ago. I feel that C5 is bright. May be a little bit too bright for my taste but when I pair it with my other m2m in stead of ALO SXC, it make the sound a lot warmer and that's a good thing to me. Here is my set up.


 
   
  Nice setup!


----------



## ostewart

Miceblue summed it up perfectly, it sounds more crisp in the highs whereas the O2 is more relaxed and tame. I wouldn't call it a bright amp, it just has crisper treble than the O2.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





mooses9 said:


> i feel what people might be hearing is the slight bump in the mids, bringing them slightly forward. that mixed with clearer sparkly highs, along with a more overall crisp sound. this all taken into consideration is probably this ''bright'' sound.


 
   
  Again, I don't think there is any bump in the mids from a frequency standpoint.  Unless you meant something else.   Perhaps your last setup lacked a tad of mids?
   
   
   Quote: 





ostewart said:


> Miceblue summed it up perfectly, it sounds more crisp in the highs whereas the O2 is more relaxed and tame. I wouldn't call it a bright amp, it just has crisper treble than the O2.



   
  Exactly.  Crisper.  Like rice crispies.


----------



## chengsta

crisper, brighter (than e11 anyway, could be due to slightly higher impedance).  But don't forget the bass boost function, described in 1 word:  GLORIOUS!


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  What amp are you using for a reference, if I may ask? Slight forwardness of the midrange is evident when compared to the O2.


----------



## ostewart

I also think the treble being crisper could be from the more intimate presentation, as the O2 has a larger soundstage.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> What amp are you using for a reference, if I may ask? Slight forwardness of the midrange is evident when compared to the O2.


 
   
  I have all sorts of amps and gear.  From a hifi infinity speaker system with a denon avr998 to my alesis studio monitor speakers on my duet to other gear as well.  But I'm simply talking about frequency response.  I don't need a reference amp for that.  If you look at the graph here: http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/images/ipod-touch-4g/measurements/FR-CD1-5-dB.gif  You can see that the 4th (which is pretty much identical to the 5th) is almost perfectly flat with absolutely no mid range drop or boost.  Flat.  It sounds flat too with flat earphones such as the pfe112.  You can hear the pfe112's slight 10khz hump (very slight), but that just shows the accuracy of the ipod even more.  With that said...
   
  The C5 using the line out sounds "identical" frequency response wise to the ipod touch.  That means the c5 should measure perfectly flat.  That is simple logic.   However, as I was saying before, there are definitely things that attribute to the "forward" sound you might be hearing.  First and most likely is a change in equipment.  Differences are going to be heard in "reference" to your last equipment, because that is what you're familiar with.  Then you have separation, which isn't accounted for in a frequency graph.  You have the brightness we discussed due to the clarity and spaciousness.  You could translate that to the midrange forwardness as well by saying the space between notes is fuller making it sound more thick and thus forward in the midrange?  Just a thought.  You have dynamics which affect the overall smoothness or crispness, where the smoother dynamics could sound like more midrange in general.  But my point was that the mid range isn't boosted in "frequency".
   
  I believe you that it might be different than the o2 in it's sound though.  And my guess is that difference in the fullness, but I'd have to hear the o2.  However, based on a flat measurement of frequencies I don't think people can describe the C5 as anything but flat.  I bet if John showed us a graph it would be extremely flat from top to bottom...


----------



## lausar

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Here is my impression so far.


 
  Thanks.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yes but a measured flat frequency response does not equate to what you hear. The FiiO E11, and most likely the E12 successor, measures perfectly flat too from Innerfidelity's amp measurements, as do pretty much every solid-state amplifier nowadays, yet they sound warm and the treble is laid-back relative to the O2; the house FiiO sound signature.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Yes but a measured flat frequency response does not equate to what you hear. The FiiO E11, and most likely the E12 successor, measures perfectly flat too from Innerfidelity's amp measurements, as do pretty much every solid-state amplifier nowadays, yet they sound warm and the treble is laid-back relative to the O2; the house FiiO sound signature.


 
   
  In terms of frequency response I disagree.  I find everything I've ever seen measured from a good source matches what it should sound like perfectly... again, in terms of frequency.  If you consider other factors than of course that won't give you the exact sound just by looking at a graph.  But you need to be able to differentiate the other traits from the frequency response and describe them accordingly.  I can't speak for every graph maker, as some try to "compensate" certain things, but I do believe an amp can have the same FR curve and sound different.  However, I would be able to tell the FR is the same.  Just like my ipod to my c5.  They don't sound the same.  But if you had asked me I would say the FR is identical.  But there are differences that can give the impression of a different FR if you don't know what to listen for, such as spaciousness.  Some people might attribute that to more treble, because that usually "clears things up".  However, more treble comes with side effects, whereas spaciousness is a different thing all together.
   
  If you take into account all of the phase shift, distortion, etc., that would all detract from clarity.  Softer details are usually described as warm, so that would make sense if the e11 sounded warmer than the C5, as it is a more clear, crisper amp.  But that doesn't mean the treble is necessarily less in amplitude than the c5, thereby have a similar curve.  Also, solid state amplifiers are not always flat nowadays.   A lot of them have noticeable bass rolloff at the lowest end.  Some have very high rolloff as well.  But in general they are still very good and the middle areas are usually ruler flat.  But anyhow, I think all of these opinions are good and valid.  I'm just trying to say that frequency response is a very large factor in the sound of a device and earphone, and it should be noted that the c5 is extremely flat in that regard...


----------



## ostewart

Glad we got all that out, in a civilized matter. Now, no point in arguing over graphs anymore, let's get back on track.
My findings are all subjective like miceblue, luisdent lets agree to disagree 

Keep it civilized guys


----------



## miceblue

What other portable headphone amplifiers use a digital volume potentiometer other than the Apex Glacier and Leckerton UHA-4? I find it to be much, much, much more practical than the typical analogue potentiometer or digital buttons for portable use at least, even though I prefer the feel of an analogue potentiometer. 1-finger volume control? Yes please!


----------



## Bruin9999

Just got a c5 a couple days ago and I love it. I'm not really into all the tech terms, all I know is it sounds frickin awesome. I do think it brings out the mids, the v moda m100's never sounded better.


----------



## ThurstonX

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> What other portable headphone amplifiers use a digital volume potentiometer other than the Apex Glacier and Leckerton UHA-4? I find it to be much, much, much more practical than the typical analogue potentiometer or digital buttons for portable use at least, even though I prefer the feel of an analogue potentiometer. 1-finger volume control? Yes please!


 
   
  I'm pretty sure Google is working on a thought-controlled potentiometer for Glass.  I'm sure someone can hack up a way to interface it with the C5....
   
  no, I'm not high.
   
  yes, I am kidding/dreaming


----------



## grandmike

As per miceblue's recommendation sometime ago and lots of other comments around here , I have finally placed an order for the C5 with some custom engravement . Hopefully it pans out well . We'll see how it turns out for me when it arrives .


----------



## Rango

How good is compare to UHA-6S MK2 for Beyerdynamic DT990 pro 250 Ohm


----------



## zazex

Quote: 





rango said:


> How good is compare to UHA-6S MK2 for Beyerdynamic DT990 pro 250 Ohm


 
  Doesn't that have a DAC?  The C5 is an amp only; no DAC.


----------



## illusioned

zazex said:


> Doesn't that have a DAC?  The C5 is an amp only; no DAC.




he could have meant the amp section


----------



## Rango

Quote: 





zazex said:


> Doesn't that have a DAC?  The C5 is an amp only; no DAC.


 

 How good is amp quality and which will do job.


----------



## Emospence

Interesting..


----------



## ostewart

The C5 will do the job fine.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> Glad we got all that out, in a civilized matter. Now, no point in arguing over graphs anymore, let's get back on track.
> My findings are all subjective like miceblue, luisdent lets agree to disagree
> 
> Keep it civilized guys


 
   
  No arguing.  Just conversation. 
   
  "There ain't no good guys, there ain't no bad guys.  There's only you and me and we just disagree."


----------



## miceblue

I went to a local Head-Fi meet and one of the newer members there tried the C5 and really liked it in comparison to the FiiO E7.


----------



## rckyosho

luisdent said:


> No arguing.  Just conversation.
> 
> "There ain't no good guys, there ain't no bad guys.  There's only you and me and we just disagree."



Yeah that's the fun part of this hobby for me I guess...the variety and subjective part and perception of each individual when it comes to sound/equipment preferences.....it will be boring if everyone's view/choices/opinions is the same.... and if I was being objective than I would have to say that the O2 and C5 or in fact many well built amps would actually sound the same.(Ok I might get flaked for this statement but...)
I remember sometime back there is actually this amp challenge that you could try and win 10,000 dollars by trying to identify the sound diffenrence in two amps...any two amps if I'm not wrong, though I'm not too sure if you could still try it now and if I'm not wrong nobody has yet to win it.
Let me see if I could find the faq link to it.......ok below is it.
http://tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/


----------



## luisdent

rckyosho said:


> Yeah that's the fun part of this hobby for me I guess...the variety and subjective part and perception of each individual when it comes to sound/equipment preferences.....it will be boring if everyone's view/choices/opinions is the same.... and if I was being objective than I would have to say that the O2 and C5 or in fact many well built amps would actually sound the same.(Ok I might get flaked for this statement but...)
> I remember sometime back there is actually this amp challenge that you could try and win 10,000 dollars by trying to identify the sound diffenrence in two amps...any two amps if I'm not wrong, though I'm not too sure if you could still try it now and if I'm not wrong nobody has yet to win it.
> Let me see if I could find the faq link to it.......ok below is it.
> http://tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/




I personally believe that and also that it has been proven scientifically with blind testing. Not to say every amp sounds the same, but that some are indistinguishable from one another but people will still think they hear a difference.


----------



## ostewart

The difference between a cheap cmoy and O2 are definitely audible. And I think there are slight differences between O2 and C5 but as I said, slight differences. Not night and day, but I think they are there. I love this hobby because we all hear differently and most of the time people are civilised and agree to disagree. The subjectivity is fun and makes for interesting discussions, but at the end of the day it's only ones opinion.


----------



## Dark Helmet

I got an opportunity to try both the C5 and the O2 at a local meet in Seattle over the weekend and I preferd the O2 by a bit.  I'm sure *miceblue* will chime in as we hear differently and he finds them to sound closer than I do.  By the way we were using different DAP's for our findings, so I'm sure that has a lot to do with it as well.
   
  With my Colorfly C3 the O2 sounded heartier with an element to it's signature that I just cant quite put my finger on.  I'm seriously thinking about getting it to pair with my DT 770 Pro which needs power to sound not so mid lacking (I know the 770's are).
   
  My C&C BH has the power to drive the DT 770's but not to my sonic satisfaction.  When I ran it through a Coffman Labs HA-1 (desktop tube amp) the DT770's sounded great.
   
  I'm hoping the O2 may be able to deliver a similar characteristic and bring out the best in the DT 770 Pro.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> The subjectivity is fun and makes for interesting discussions, but at the end of the day it's only ones opinion.


 
   
  I agree and disagree.  In terms of "what we hear" that is not the case.  There are definitely differences in a lot of amps.  But there are also amps with no audible differences.  In this case, when people say they hear a difference, despite the fact that a double blind test shows 100% undetectability in the difference between two amps, they are hearing the same thing as the person who thinks they sound the same, they just won't admin it.
   
  On the other end of the spectrum, what does it really matter?  If someone "thinks" an amp sound better and gets more enjoyment from it then who cares otherwise?  Let them have their enjoyment.  You might want to save them money or something, but otherwise, let them enjoy the amp and don't think anything of it in my opinion.  This hobby should be one of enjoyment.
   
  However, when it comes to researching and choosing amps or any audio gear, one needs to be cautious of opinions vs. actual differences.  This can be extremely difficult, but I suggest taking in opinions, views, graphs, audio testing and studies, etc.  And making an educated decision based on the average indication they all point to.  Just my thoughts.
   
  Again, not every amp is equal, but then again some that seem unequal may be more equal than you think.   The bottom line, as I always say, is to enjoy your gear.  Listen to your music.  Really, enjoy the hell out of it.  lol  That's always my goal.


----------



## ostewart

Yes, very true, we're here to enjoy the music not listen to the gear. And that's what's great about the C5 it lets you listen to the music, not the amps colouration.


----------



## ostewart

I sold my C421 when I got the C5. C421 is more fun and in your face, C5 is smoother more civilized and transparent.


----------



## chengsta

since this is the C5 appreciation thread, I really seriously want to say that I freaking appreciate the C5.  It has enhanced my musical experience like never before.  Perhaps the best pairing is with an xba 40 (with standard sony tips, not the tips that come with the xba 40).  There are just some moments in my tracks that the music pauses and there is only silence for a split second, but that silence is so breath taking!  so intense!  It's silent, yet your ears hear something that make your knees buckle.  Could it be that the xba 40's have reached the legendary 1 hz range?!  
   
  Anyone got a C5 and wanna see if they can also feel the silent rumble at 2:40?  If you got a different iem, you might be like What are you talking about.  (that means you definitely need the c5+xba 40 pairing to hear/feel it)  warning:  this is futuristic j trance(techno?) voodoo so don't listen if you hate that stuff.  Remember, skip to 2:40 and listen from there if you don't wanna enjoy the music: 
   
  mediafire.com/?n96q2pc46s6cmvl


----------



## canikickit1

Anyone want to do a comparison with te Fiio E12


----------



## rckyosho

ostewart said:


> Yes, very true, we're here to enjoy the music not listen to the gear. And that's what's great about the C5 it lets you listen to the music, not the amps colouration.




The enjoyment of music is of course the number one reason why we go into this hobby but I like fooling around with all the gears needed to do so and
it's ironic though cause I like color and will color my sound with what I perceived as a warmer/darker/brighter sounding amps though I like my source to be transparent and not altering the sound in any way possible which most sources do.That is why I guess I own solid states, tube amps and hybrids I guess.Though I think that 99 percent of the sound signature is actually dictated by the headphones/iems one chooses so it's better to put the time,energy and money in getting that to your liking.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





canikickit1 said:


> Anyone want to do a comparison with te Fiio E12


 
  I posted my impressions in the FiiO E12 thread, but I definitely think the C5 is worth the price difference.
   
  Comparisons to E12, the C5 has:

 A more pocket-friendly interface
 A more portable form-factor
 More space for jacks on the front-plate
 Easier-to-use volume controls
 A deeper, larger "theater" bass boost [perhaps pre-mass-release E12 would have been like this]
 A larger soundstage with better instrument separation
 A sound quality closer to my reference amp, Objective 2
 A clearer midrange
 More detail in the treble
 A more fatiguing during long listening sessions
 No channel imbalance
 No noise on high-gain mode
 A shorter battery life (10-11 hours versus the E12's 15-16 hours)


----------



## Podster

Miceblue, if you don't mind me asking do you drive your 701's with the C5?


----------



## zeitfliesst

Hmm. The c421 was way too loud for IEM's without having channel imbalance. Thank goodness C5 fixed this. Will give it a try in the near future for sure.


----------



## LCfiner

I've been using the C5 for about a week now with my tralucent1plus2 and the combination is excellent.
   
  I have to admit that the C5 bass boost is incredibly addictive. I don't use for all music but for most of my stuff it's a perfect fit. The 1plus2 have incredible bass - not just great bass "for an IEM" - but with the C5 bass boost it's _ridiculous_. It's almost head shaking at times. seriously reminds me of the LCD2 or, for a more direct comparison of something I still own - the MD7000 bass. It's not quite as big but it's close and, I would say, better controlled with only a little less impact. Very, very impressive.
   
  The combination of the C5 and the 1plus2 is great. I might have found a portable solution that's finally good enough to match (and replace) my previous desktop listening stations.


----------



## ClieOS

You mean OPA2227. There is no AD2227.


----------



## miceblue

podster said:


> Miceblue, if you don't mind me asking do you drive your 701's with the C5?




Yup. I actually prefer the K 701 with the C5, and especially with the bass boost for gaming and movie watching, over the O2, but the O2 definitely has a larger-sounding soundstage and better instrument separation to my ears.


----------



## ostewart

Nearing 1000 replies guys!!

Glad to hear more people enjoying the C5, off to try it with the Hippo ProOne (bass boost may be needed)


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





rckyosho said:


> Though I think that 99 percent of the sound signature is actually dictated by the headphones/iems one chooses so it's better to put the time,energy and money in getting that to your liking.


 
   
  VERY good point.  I have seen a lot of people spend a LOT of money on high quality gear to make their low quality headphones or speakers better.  I would say the headphones are much more important overall than the amp.  Not to discount the need for or improvements of an amp sometimes, but even the C5 isn't going to drastically change the bass on a headphone with super bass to begin with or reduce sibilance on an earphone with a lot of sibilance.  I think of a good amp as refining the sound quality.  Making it more pristine as if your windshield is dirty and you clean it really good it lets you see better, but the windshield isn't really changed at all.  The sound with a C5 is more pristine and lets you hear the music better without really changing your earphones per se...


----------



## RichieE46

Anyone have any opinions on how this compares to the iBasso D6 or even the iBasso PB2?
   
   


 Looking for a portable amp for the Mad Dogs. Granted the D6 has a DAC, I'm more interested in the amp pairings of the Mad Dogs to the C5/D6/PB2s.


----------



## miceblue

I'll still try to get the drivers installed to re-program the C5, but in the mean time this should do.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





divine33 said:


> Drivers?


 
   
  Drivers are not required. These are for optional DIY modding. See Post #870.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Would it be a relevant comparison to put the C5 against the JDS Cmoybb 2.03?


----------



## smpie

All fine and well and i'm starting to like this amp. 
 But (yes alas there is a but)
  
 This nice amp costs $189 ..good price a bit more expensive than the Fiio E12 and well lot's of you say well worth it better SQ etc..
 But here it comes what does it cost me ? Living in the EU Netherlands.
  
 (hope your sitting down) !!
  
 Total cost €208 yep that's $269 almost $270 for all intense and purpose !
 My god ..
 And how much does the mediocre Soundstage Fiio E12 cost me you ask?
 €120 that's $155
  
 So the difference $114 big ones !!
  
 Well that's life take it or leave it i guess.
  
 there is one solution and that's JDS Labs start's a small factory in the EU.
 Making all the people that love music happy hahaha..
 well that was the StarTrek nurd inside me talking..
  
 I have bin talking to JDS Labs great people.
 Especially "John Seaber" very patient and understanding.
  
 Perhaps he can find a nice distributing option for us people here in the EU..


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *smpie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> there is one solution and that's JDS Labs start's a small factory in the EU.


 
   
  One of our new distributors has C5 in stock in Spain, so I've contacted them for their store URL (not sure why they haven't provided it).
   
  What stores would you like to see our products in?


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





divine33 said:


> Oh, thats great news, John. From where can I get it? Link, contact, whatever? Please PM me if necessary. I need the C5 ASAP but has to be via EU. I can't afford the customs tax and even the waiting.


 
   
  It's a new store, so I'm not sure when they're officially opening: http://headphoniaks.com/
  They definitely received a shipment of C5's from us earlier this month.
   
  We need to expand more into EU, so ask your favorite stores or send us recommendations.


----------



## miceblue

I'm not an expert with earphones nor low-impedance "loads," but how would the C5 fare with a 9 Ω earphone (i.e. the upcoming Shure SE846)?


----------



## ostewart

should be fine. I really really want the SE846 too... lets see if i can get my hands on a pair when they come out, for review purposes.


----------



## gkanai

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> We need to expand more into EU, so ask your favorite stores or send us recommendations.


 
   
  John- are you lining up some retailers in Japan or Asia?


----------



## smpie

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> One of our new distributors has C5 in stock in Spain, so I've contacted them for their store URL (not sure why they haven't provided it).
> 
> What stores would you like to see our products in?


 
   
 thanks for your reply.
  
 Stores where i wold like to see the JDS Labs products.. oh man just any store for now sad the sad dutch man with no options hahahah…nehh seriously ..
  
 I think a store like Amazone.uk (if you type in amazone.nl you will be redirected to the uk site.)
  
 it's not the most ideal store out there but its a good start. Because it opens up the EU market so that we all can enjoy JDS labs out here 
  
 Here in the Netherlands i would say stores like these. were they sell other audio hardware..
  
 A big one that is all over the place is called Hobo hifi.
 http://www.hobo.nl
  
 And one where i got my T5p. called overgaauw.
 http://www.overgaauw.com
  
 There are options like bol.com
 thats' a store comparable to amazon but better known in Holland.
 A couple of years ago the big name " Ahold " bought Bol.com..
 So now they even sell secondhand material new stuff you name it they got it..
 I think it looks like amazon….
  
 The "Epiphany Acoustics EHP-O2" has a store in the UK so that was a nice option costing me $15 for transport not ideal but no import hassle so at least that's one thing..
  
  
 But really being able to buy it in the Netherlands would just be out of this world awesome..
 and second best would be somewhere in the EU where one could at least read the site hahah unlike that site in Spain ..real strange to's guys there.. The food is nice but they lack the business skills found in the Germans and Dutch.. (that's my humble opinion hope not to offend)
  
  Again thanks for taking the time to think of us here in the EU..
   
  gr sam


----------



## smpie

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> We need to expand more into EU, so ask your favorite stores or send us recommendations.


 
   
 Almost forgot !!
  
 Maybe the best store to start of with !!!
 They where even looking at my request to import other US brands..
 Or order them for me..But the price including import / taxes was to much..
  
 There name is HDPHNS.
 http://hdphns.com/nl/
  
 that's the one store that's awesome i think..They already sell amps..
 Like the Fiio And iQube  and Gigizoid so JDS labs would compliment that nicely ..
  
 I will email them the link to this forum and ask them what they think..?
  
 I Can't believe i forgot about them! 
 Seeing i ordered my Fiio E12 there and than cancelled it because of my coinsurance for
 coloration and soundstage..
  
 How cool would it be if i could listen to the E12 and the C5 and compare both ..
 Heaven on Earth hahahah..


----------



## ostewart

I've already contacted hifiheadphones about stocking JDS, we'll see.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Try Adafruit's USBTiny drivers for Win7. I haven't had success with Sparkfun's drivers or workarounds on Win7 x64. Drivers are the biggest battle.
> 
> Switch C5 on after connecting the USBTiny. Then from Arduino, use File-->Upload Using Programmer. Its power light will remain off, but that supplies +5V power to the Atmega168.


 
  Argh, I'm still having a hard time getting the Pocket AVR Programmer to communicate through the Arduino software.
   
  SparkFun finally updated the webpage and now contains the drivers provided by the Adafruit website you linked.
   
  I'm using Windows 7 64-bit:

 Download the drivers as indicated above
 Rename x86\libusb0_x86.dll to libusb0.dll as stated in the README file
 Run installer_x86.exe
 Put the boards.txt file from the C5's .zip folder to the arduino\hardware\arduino folder
 Connect Pocket AVR Programmer to computer
 Connect Pocket AVR Programmer to C5
 Turn on C5
 Open the Arduino software
 Open c5_v100_MasterFirmware104.ino
 Select the C5 board from Tools -> Board
 Select USBtinyISP from Tools -> Programmer
 File -> Upload Using Programmer
 This error is encountered: "avrdude: Error: Could not find USBtiny device (0x1781/0xc9f)"


----------



## jseaber

smpie: Thanks!
   
  Quote: 





gkanai said:


> John- are you lining up some retailers in Japan or Asia?


 
   
  We have several distributors in Asia, including two in Japan.
   



miceblue said:


> Argh, I'm still having a hard time getting the Pocket AVR Programmer to communicate through the Arduino software.


 
   
  Your steps are correct, but you still have a driver problem. Which did you download? The link points to Sparkfun's drivers, as well as to all of Adafruit's drivers. I believe I'm using these for Win7 x64:
http://www.ladyada.net/make/usbtinyisp/usbtinyisp_libusb-win32_1.2.1.0.zip


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > Argh, I'm still having a hard time getting the Pocket AVR Programmer to communicate through the Arduino software.
> ...


 
  Yup those are the drivers I installed. I'm using 64-bit Windows 7 with an Intel processor and thus I used the "installer_x86.exe" file.
   
  In the README file it says:
  Quote: 





> X86 ONLY ARCHITECTURES:
> x86\libusb0.sys: x86 32-bit driver.
> Installs to Windows\system32\drivers\libusb0.sys


 
  ^ I don't see that file in that folder so maybe that's where I'm having problems.


----------



## smpie

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> I've already contacted hifiheadphones about stocking JDS, we'll see.


 
   
 that's great news.
  
 if they could over it for a US type price i would order one C5 on the spot !
 Love to see a comparison Between the C5 and the Fiio E12., or perhaps do one as soon as my Beyerdynamic T5p..
  
 $189 is €147. ..and the Fiio E12 is €120.. 
 The difference is not that big..But if Customs and other crap needs to be added ..
 Than i'm afraid you would be looking at a to great / big of a price difference.
 i mean €20 -- $25 more i can explain as being better or just opting to a different clientele.
  
 But i have never heard anyone out there do a sound comparison with a good set of headphones.
 Like the Beyerdyanmic T1 or T5p…
  
 Well if hdphns is willing to go for it at a good price ..And they give there usual 30day money back period then i could just get both and write a good review explaining the Sound difference between the both models.. Witch i consider to be competing (as a product line) with each other..
  
 But hdphns could also say that they wold order one for me and that the 30days won't apply or so they told me..
  
 Well i will wait and see..And perhaps if wanted drop a mail  ?? But first i would wait and see what they decide..
  
 Really sum times i just think to leave ICT and start a internet shop ..
 Specialised in US products ..For the EU !!
 i mean i think i'm not that special but apparently i seem (lately) to always get my products with the MADE in the USA label on it hahaha… Last time it was shoos from Keen no it's an amp!!


----------



## miceblue

smpie said:


> ostewart said:
> 
> 
> > I've already contacted hifiheadphones about stocking JDS, we'll see.
> ...




To me the C5 sounds like a mini Objective 2, or a typical, what people call "solid state sound." The E12 on the other hand is what people call "more musical" or "tube-like" in sound. In other words, the C5 is more true-to-the-sound and detailed, whereas the E12 is coloured to sound more like a tube amp with a warm sound signature, good texture, and laid-back treble response.


----------



## ClieOS

Personally, I never find E12 to have a tube like sound.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Personally, I never find E12 to have a tube like sound.


 
  Well not tube, tube sound, but it's got the warm tilt to it with a laid-back midrange from what I can hear.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Well not tube, tube sound, but it's got the warm tilt to it with a laid-back midrange from what I can hear.


 
   
  Tube sound to me is all about lushness, and I didn't hear that in E12. Didn't notice the mid is being laid-back as well.If anything, I find O2 more laid back in overall presentation. In fact, I'll say C5 is more forwarded than both O2 and E12. Well, perhaps forward is not the right words - I think C5 has shallower depth, kind of the opposite to E12.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





clieos said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Depth, yup, the C5 kind of lacks in that area. After approximate volume-matching the O2, C5, and E12 with a 1 kHz sine wave, I still find the E12 to have the most laid-back midrange. Maybe laid-back isn't the right word.
   
  Listening to music, I feel that the C5's midrange is more forward than that of the O2, which makes it more engaging for me; it makes me want to sing along with the songs. The E12's midrange seems more distant from me and it's not as engaging; it's more relaxing to listen to, but I don't feel involved in the song at all, I feel as if I'm just casually listening to music. The O2 is in the middle of the two; its midrange is mildly engaging for me, yet relaxing to listen to too; I feel in the middle between the two.
   
  Oooh wait I think I know what you're saying now, maybe. Between the O2 and E12 the E12's midrange does sound louder than that of the O2; is this what you mean by forward? I think I'm mixing some terms here..... >_<
  E12's midrange does seem more forward in this sense, but it doesn't sound as realistic to me and is non-engaging, hence why I said it's "laid-back". The C5's midrange in comparison is louder than that of the E12, being the most forward in this sense? The C5's midrange sounds more like the singer is singing to me so that quality of the midrange is why I said it's "forward". From all of my experiences with tube amps, the midrange seems to take on the "laid-back" term I use, where the midrange gets less engaging and more relaxing-sounding. Sorry for all the confusion!


----------



## zazex

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> To me the C5 sounds like a mini Objective 2, or a typical, what people call "solid state sound." The E12 on the other hand is what people call "more musical" or "tube-like" in sound. In other words, the C5 is more true-to-the-sound and detailed, whereas the E12 is coloured to sound more like a tube amp with a warm sound signature, good texture, and laid-back treble response.


 
   
  Quote: 





clieos said:


> Personally, I never find E12 to have a tube like sound.


 
   
  I don't know which, if any, of these, is colored to sound a certain way.
   
  I do know I enjoy listening to the E12 - it's very dynamic, and does 
  have a softer high end than the C5.


----------



## canikickit1

zazex said:


> I don't know which, if any, of these, is colored to sound a certain way.
> 
> I do know I enjoy listening to the E12 - it's very dynamic, and does
> have a softer high end than the C5.




I have both the c5 and e12. I would say the c5 is noticibly brighter and more fatiguing than the e12. Overall sound is excellent.

I can listen to the e12 for longer periods of time because of the softer highs and sweet mids.


----------



## miceblue

canikickit1 said:


> zazex said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know which, if any, of these, is colored to sound a certain way.
> ...




Yeah I agree with you there.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Yeah I agree with you there.


 
   
  Just curious which phones you guys are using?


----------



## miceblue

I've been using the C5 with the V-MODA M-100's (with my portable rig) and K 701 (gaming and movie-watching).


----------



## luisdent

miceblue said:


> I've been using the C5 with the V-MODA M-100's (with my portable rig) and K 701 (gaming and movie-watching).




I love the k 701. I assume those are bright with the c5? I dont have a pair, but have used them and i always found them like the er4s, where they sound incredible, but a little bass light... How much flatter does the bass boost make them in the lows? Or does it technically overdo it a bit?


----------



## zazex

Quote: 





zazex said:


> I don't know which, if any, of these, is colored to sound a certain way.
> 
> I do know I enjoy listening to the E12 - it's very dynamic, and does
> have a softer high end than the C5.


 
   
  Quote: 





canikickit1 said:


> I have both the c5 and e12. I would say the c5 is noticibly brighter and more fatiguing than the e12. Overall sound is excellent.
> 
> I can listen to the e12 for longer periods of time because of the softer highs and sweet mids.


 
   
   
  I also have both, and like both - for different reasons.
  I agree with your observations about them...
   
   
   Quote:


miceblue said:


> Yeah I agree with you there.


 
   
  ...as does *miceblue*
   
  Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Just curious which phones you guys are using?


 
   
  Mine are listed in my Community Profile.
   
  (I'll save you a click and cut/paste them here:
  Sony MDR-7520, AKG K702, Beyerdynamic DT880 Premium (250 ohm), Sony MDR-MA900,
  Sony MDR-Z1000, JVC HA-S500 (carbon nanotube), Yamaha HPH200, Audio Technica ATH M50,
  Sony MDR V6, Sennheiser PX100ii)


----------



## Mooses9

i went ahead and had upgraditis and sold the C5.
   
  i was using the westone 4r with the C5.
   
  my new setup is the Alo audio RX MK2/Chypher Labs Algorhythm Solo/Alo Audio SXC Solo cable combo................let's just say that if the c5 is on earth, the setup i have now is many many many universes ahead.
   
  but the c5 and c421 are still excellent amplifiers for the price.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





mooses9 said:


> i went ahead and had upgraditis and sold the C5.
> 
> i was using the westone 4r with the C5.
> 
> ...


 
   
  It's funny that the ipod is so popular that they used that as the icon for their "source" input.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I think it's still too much bass for it to be neutral; a +6.5 dB gain at 80 Hz is definitely a lot. It does add some nice punch to the K 701, which lacked it, as well as sub-bass to compensate for the bass roll-off. But yes, it's brighter with the C5 compared to the O2.


----------



## Mooses9

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> It's funny that the ipod is so popular that they used that as the icon for their "source" input.


 
  haha yeah, its like subliminally saying ''use a ipod with this amp'' ''use a ipod with this amp'' ....but in its defense it was more or less made to be used in conjunction with the algorhythm solo which is made to use for a ipod..and using both the rx mk2 and cypher CLAS they realy do synergize together.
   
  i do still feel like jds labs are one of the amp companies out there. they are offering excellent build quality, EXCELLENT sound quality, incorperating great features in their amps. and last but definitly not least excellent pricing.....which makes them a hard company to beat on the price vs sound quality spectrum.


----------



## ostewart

Quote: 





mooses9 said:


> haha yeah, its like subliminally saying ''use a ipod with this amp'' ''use a ipod with this amp'' ....but in its defense it was more or less made to be used in conjunction with the algorhythm solo which is made to use for a ipod..and using both the rx mk2 and cypher CLAS they realy do synergize together.
> 
> *i do still feel like jds labs are one of the amp companies out there. they are offering excellent build quality, EXCELLENT sound quality, incorperating great features in their amps. and last but definitly not least excellent pricing.....which makes them a hard company to beat on the price vs sound quality spectrum.*


 
   
  Very true


----------



## luisdent

I'm going to be flying from boston to dallas in July.  Does anyone know if I can bring my C5 on the plane with me? I would be really upset if they confiscated it at the gate or something.  I know it's just an amplifier, but would they know and allow it?  Anyone have any experience with this?


----------



## ostewart

I've always been fine taking mine on planes. O2, C421 among others. Even a DIY cmoy.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> I'm going to be flying from boston to dallas in July.  Does anyone know if I can bring my C5 on the plane with me? I would be really upset if they confiscated it at the gate or something.  I know it's just an amplifier, but would they know and allow it?  Anyone have any experience with this?


 
   
  I've flown with C421 several times. C5 looks similar in X-Rays and will get through security fine.
   
  Devices with 9V batteries are flagged, from what I've been told. It's a gamble to take O2 or a cMoyBB into an airport--especially for international flights.


----------



## ostewart

John, which amps do you personally use?
C421 or C5?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





mooses9 said:


> i went ahead and had upgraditis and sold the C5.
> 
> i was using the westone 4r with the C5.
> 
> ...


 
  I'm guessing you did the appropriate tests, but were you comparing the C5 directly to the RX MKII directly (i.e. keeping the source and DAC the same)?


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> John, which amps do you personally use?
> C421 or C5?


 
   
  C5 all the time!


----------



## D K A

I had this amp since last month and this amp just blow out my mind
  how can this $200 amp sound as good as my $450 amp
  and the bass boost just amazing, they gives the right amount of bass and don't mess up the music


----------



## D K A

Quote: 





divine33 said:


> What's your $450 amp?


 

 Apex glacier it's more transparent but the C5 bass boost just blow out my mind


----------



## grandmike

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> I've flown with C421 several times. C5 looks similar in X-Rays and will get through security fine.
> 
> Devices with 9V batteries are flagged, from what I've been told. It's a gamble to take O2 or a cMoyBB into an airport--especially for international flights.


 
   
  Yes Agreed ! Been there done that !


----------



## grandmike

Quote: 





d k a said:


> I had this amp since last month and this amp just blow out my mind
> how can this $200 amp sound as good as my $450 amp
> and the bass boost just amazing, they gives the right amount of bass and don't mess up the music


 
   
  Speaking of which , It makes my M-100 vibrates physically ! when I turn the bass boost on ..


----------



## D K A

Quote: 





grandmike said:


> Speaking of which , It makes my M-100 vibrates physically ! when I turn the bass boost on ..


 

 Haha i got the same situation but with my MDR-1R , i think M-100 bass better than my mdr


----------



## gkanai

d k a said:


> Apex glacier it's more transparent but the C5 bass boost just blow out my mind




Also, you can get 2 and-a-half C5s for the price of one Apex Glacier...


----------



## D K A

Quote: 





gkanai said:


> Also, you can get 2 and-a-half C5s for the price of one Apex Glacier...


 

 Haha of course, Actually i bought apex for ak 100 but later on i realized that international was made for ak 100


----------



## Mooses9

Quote: 





divine33 said:


> I would need a few more comparisons between C5 and C421 AD8620. Anyone?


 
   
  the c5 is better all around imo. although i would have to say if you have a brighter pair of iem's like the se535 that are mid forward, the slight bump in the mids could possibly push for congestion between the mids and highs.
   
  the c421 ad8620 seems to have some more refinement in sound imo but the c5 is just better all around imo.


----------



## kerrys30

been using C5 for couple months with ipod classic 7th gen and SE535s.    As new to the audiophile world I have little to compare against but really enjoying better sound going into my ears.   The C5 is a well made piece of kit that looks just fine paired with the ipod.    I am looking into a DAC to add to setup (possibly CLAS -r) as feel there is still better refinement to be had.  Will keep posted on combo if and when get.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





kerrys30 said:


> been using C5 for couple months with ipod classic 7th gen and SE535s.    As new to the audiophile world I have little to compare against but really enjoying better sound going into my ears.   The C5 is a well made piece of kit that looks just fine paired with the ipod.    I am looking into a DAC to add to setup (possibly CLAS -r) as feel there is still better refinement to be had.  Will keep posted on combo if and when get.


 
  Speaking of DACs, JDS Labs posted this on their blog:
  http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=612
   
  I don't quite agree with the iPod DAC part as I do think an external DAC can help (i.e. iPhone + C5 doesn't sound like ODAC+C5), but for mobile use, I don't think the extra price is worth it; similar to how I don't think a $500+ USD earphone is worth it just for mobile use (most of the audio quality benefits you'll get are diminished with extra background noise anyway). But that's just me.


----------



## kerrys30

Thanks for the link will have a good read. I can say that the current setup is a huge improvement over how I have been listening. I guess I have just been introduced to a world I didn't really know existed and now want to try it all and see how good it can get......
Plus living in Hong Kong now I can't make use of separates I used in UK so mobile unit also doubles as home too!!


----------



## Mooses9

i donno if the C5 would Synergise that well with the new clas -R.  knowing the sound of the clas and the C5, i think the C5 is slightly bright and the akm chip might make the whole system sound sterile.
   
  thats just my opinion... i think the original clas might have better synergy but not sure.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Speaking of DACs, JDS Labs posted this on their blog:
> http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=612
> 
> I don't quite agree with the iPod DAC part as I do think an external DAC can help (i.e. iPhone + C5 doesn't sound like ODAC+C5), but for mobile use, I don't think the extra price is worth it; similar to how I don't think a $500+ USD earphone is worth it just for mobile use (most of the audio quality benefits you'll get are diminished with extra background noise anyway). But that's just me.


 
   
  Keep in mind those iPod paragraphs are direct quotes from NwAvGuy's blog. I wrote this article after so many people lately have begged for more info on the subject.
   
  I'm thrilled with the DAC + C5 on my desk. Most often, customers on a budget do not need to spend inordinate amounts of money on a DAC when you can get excellent performance from headphones and an amp. A DAC _usually_ provides the smallest change to your audio chain. Around 1% of ODAC customers have actually returned ODAC because they couldn't hear a difference--they stuck with their original source. So, I'd rather see those folks make better informed decisions from the start (everyone wins). That was the point of the blog post. Did I miss it?


----------



## miceblue

No I think you nailed it, and yes that part about the iPod DACs was from NwAvGuy. It was a good read. I definitely think the DAC makes some difference in the audio chain, but it is probably the second to last thing one should upgrade unless the DAC is just plain bad (i.e. in a Nintendo 3DS). The last thing people usually change is the cable.
   
  On another note, relating to the aluminum blog entry, my ODAC's enclosure is slightly bowed as was shown in your blog:
   

   
  and my C5 actually has a few non-anodised bare spots on the inside of the aluminum enclosure (these was here when I first opened it up but I never mentioned it since it's not a big deal to me):
   

   
   
  same side but on the top of the inside:


----------



## kerrys30

I managed to get some time with a few dacs after visiting jaben audio (very helpful and patient). I tried the CLAS -r. A fostex and a couple others....will try and get model details next time go. To be honest I was expecting to hear some real magic happening.....really not sure what I was expecting.....guess I was hoping for too much!! I didn't really hear much difference from the short tests. Now I understand this could be my ears...music used....cables......well, too many variables. Jaben did show me some cables available to replace stock se535 one and I definitely heard a change and music seemed more open and clearer. Fortunately I tried 2 cables. The first was an obvious improvement but then tried the second and couldn't hear a change. Luckily and unbeknown to me the first was the entry level (sa-01) and the last was the high end one.....so ordered sa-01 and will spend some time listening before thinking I need to look at the next part of the chain......


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





kerrys30 said:


> I managed to get some time with a few dacs after visiting jaben audio (very helpful and patient). I tried the CLAS -r. A fostex and a couple others....will try and get model details next time go. To be honest I was expecting to hear some real magic happening.....really not sure what I was expecting.....guess I was hoping for too much!! I didn't really hear much difference from the short tests. Now I understand this could be my ears...music used....cables......well, too many variables. Jaben did show me some cables available to replace stock se535 one and I definitely heard a change and music seemed more open and clearer. Fortunately I tried 2 cables. The first was an obvious improvement but then tried the second and couldn't hear a change. Luckily and unbeknown to me the first was the entry level (sa-01) and the last was the high end one.....so ordered sa-01 and will spend some time listening before thinking I need to look at the next part of the chain......


 
  I haven't tried the Cypher Labs Algorithm Solo before, but I wouldn't expect an iPod DAC to make a huge difference either. There's mostly a soundstage and instrument separation difference between my iPhone + line out dock + C5 and MacBook Pro + ODAC + C5.
   
  Cables? I don't believe in expensive cables, but I found that silver cables do sound different from copper, to my surprise. I don't think silver cables would pair well with the C5 though.


Spoiler: Off-Topic%20Video%20about%20Silver%20Cables


----------



## luisdent

kerrys30 said:


> I managed to get some time with a few dacs after visiting jaben audio (very helpful and patient). I tried the CLAS -r. A fostex and a couple others....will try and get model details next time go. To be honest I was expecting to hear some real magic happening.....really not sure what I was expecting.....guess I was hoping for too much!! I didn't really hear much difference from the short tests. Now I understand this could be my ears...music used....cables......well, too many variables. Jaben did show me some cables available to replace stock se535 one and I definitely heard a change and music seemed more open and clearer. Fortunately I tried 2 cables. The first was an obvious improvement but then tried the second and couldn't hear a change. Luckily and unbeknown to me the first was the entry level (sa-01) and the last was the high end one.....so ordered sa-01 and will spend some time listening before thinking I need to look at the next part of the chain......




I know this isn't scientific, but using my c5 from my ipod touch line out sounds almost identical to using my duet interface, which sounds the same as using my denon avr995. If there is a difference (i "think" the duet sounds the best) i cant really tell for sure. So its pretty darn small.


----------



## kerrys30

Thanks miceblue. It's nice to hear of similar setups and experience.


----------



## rckyosho

When it comes to investing to in the audio chain I like to refer to the article from this http://en.goldenears.net/index.php?mid=KB_Columns&document_srl=1921&m=0

Read the article and see the figure below then decide for yourself which you think is the better....a dac or earphones or for that matter cables and as you can see the end of the chain is the most benificial to invest your time and money in.


Figure 2. The approximate range of distortion in sound reproduction in dB scale (FR only)


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> and my C5 actually has a few non-anodised bare spots on the inside of the aluminum enclosure (these was here when I first opened it up but I never mentioned it since it's not a big deal to me):


 
   
  That's one of the first batch cases. The anodizer didn't consider the inside important; that appearance is caused by placement of their clamp. They've since improved the process, so clamp marks are no longer visible.
   
  We'll be adding bare cases to the store soon. Here's a photo taken last week:


----------



## kerrys30

Interesting read rckyosho. Thanks.


----------



## rckyosho

jseaber said:


> That's one of the first batch cases. The anodizer didn't consider the inside important; that appearance is caused by placement of their clamp. They've since improved the process, so clamp marks are no longer visible.
> 
> 
> We'll be adding bare cases to the store soon. Here's a photo taken last week:



I've always thought that those areas missing the anodising in the inside were cause by the battery hitting it slightly when the board is slided in and out of the case but I guess I was wrong. 
Anyway good to hear your offering the case as a separate item. How about the front and back panel, Are those going to be available too?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





rckyosho said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  @ *jseaber*
  Ah that's good to hear. I figured it might be a clamp of some sort since the bare spots are similar in size and shape.
   
  @ *rckyosho*
  Yeah I'm curious too. Black looks mighty fancy:

   
   
  @ *jseaber *again
  Is the bright-dipping technique adding a gloss finish to the anodised aluminum or does it still have the "chalkboard" texture? I was actually going to write on my review of the C5 that its texture reminds me of a chalkboard, and I really like that feeling, hahaha.

   
  ^ both images were from JDS Labs aluminium blog entry
   
  The red bright-dipped C5 in particular reminds me of the Product Red line of Apple products in-person (online photos make the products look brighter than they actually are).


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





rckyosho said:


> Anyway good to hear your offering the case as a separate item. How about the front and back panel, Are those going to be available too?


 
   
  Sure!
   


miceblue said:


> @ *jseaber *again
> Is the bright-dipping technique adding a gloss finish to the anodised aluminum or does it still have the "chalkboard" texture? I was actually going to write on my review of the C5 that its texture reminds me of a chalkboard, and I really like that feeling, hahaha.
> 
> 
> ...


 
   

  That was our goal. Glad you can see the resemblance.


----------



## ostewart

I may buy the red enclosure with black faceplates... We'll see


----------



## miceblue

About the black plates, do scratches easily show up on it?
  With the silver panels I have on the O2, ODAC, and C5, there are definite signs of scratches from me missing the audio jacks when trying to put a cable in, ahaha.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> About the black plates, do scratches easily show up on it?
> With the silver panels I have on the O2, ODAC, and C5, there are definite signs of scratches from me missing the audio jacks when trying to put a cable in, ahaha.


 
   
  Black is much more scratch resistant.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> About the black plates, do scratches easily show up on it?
> With the silver panels I have on the O2, ODAC, and C5, there are definite signs of scratches from me missing the audio jacks when trying to put a cable in, ahaha.


 
   
  I'm not sure if I have the newest revision of anodizing, etc., but here is my black amp after a few months of use.  I use it every single day probably about 3-4 hours on average.  I don't see any "noticeable" scratches, but there are some small ones if you look at the right angle with the light.  Also, it seems to wear the most around the rounded edges.
   
  Overall, I'd say it's reasonable wear for how much I use it.  I do try to care for it and placed four rubber sticky bumpers on both sides so nothing rubs it, but it does sit in a plastic container with some cables and adapters.  While it's fairly snug in the case, it's possible it's getting wear from rubbing the cables.  The scratches look worse in the photos because of the lighting though...


----------



## akhyar

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Black is much more scratch resistant.


 
  Do you have any plan of making leather case for the C5? 
  Something like those made by Headamp for their portable amp/DAC.


----------



## illusioned

akhyar said:


> Do you have any plan of making leather case for the C5?
> Something like those made by Headamp for their portable amp/DAC.




"like" this idea too, got a few scratches on my red on  now its hiding in a portable charger's sleeve.


----------



## thor777

I brought mine on a flight to Hawaii.  Didn't run into any issues.  I've also brought my CMoyBB on a flight to Taiwan.
  Quote: 





luisdent said:


> I'm going to be flying from boston to dallas in July.  Does anyone know if I can bring my C5 on the plane with me? I would be really upset if they confiscated it at the gate or something.  I know it's just an amplifier, but would they know and allow it?  Anyone have any experience with this?


----------



## gkanai

I fly with my C5 regularly. No problems.
   
  I keep it in a case that is designed for laptop hard drives. Works well for me.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





illusioned said:


> "like" this idea too, got a few scratches on my red on
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The bright dipped finishes are much tougher, although no aluminum surface is 100% scratch resistant.
   
Cases and endplates are now available:


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> The bright dipped finishes are much tougher, although no aluminum surface is 100% scratch resistant.
> 
> Cases and endplates are now available:


 
   
  Excellent.  John, do you remember which finish my black end plate was that you sent me?  I'm sure you're sending a lot of them, but I really love the texture of mine...  How do these compare in tactile feel?


----------



## miceblue

I had my C5 in my pocket....and I totally forgot my iPhone was under it. My poor endplate. XD

   
  Only the surface has that weird design on it; the actual metal doesn't seem scratched, or if it is, it's a very, very, very shallow scratch.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> I had my C5 in my pocket....and I totally forgot my iPhone was under it. My poor endplate. XD
> 
> 
> Only the surface has that weird design on it; the actual metal doesn't seem scratched, or if it is, it's a very, very, very shallow scratch.


 
   
  It's unique class.... how did the iphone fare?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The iPhone is fine except for one darker surface shallow scratch on the metal side.

  (so the iPhone was in my pocket sideways with the volume buttons facing up out of my pocket and the C5's USB/Power endplate was resting on top of that)


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> The iPhone is fine except for one darker surface shallow scratch on the metal side.
> 
> (so the iPhone was in my pocket sideways with the volume buttons facing up out of my pocket and the C5's USB/Power endplate was resting on top of that)


 
   
  Well at least the screen isn't all messed up.  :-/


----------



## jonbmet

Quote: 





kerrys30 said:


> been using C5 for couple months with ipod classic 7th gen and SE535s.    As new to the audiophile world I have little to compare against but really enjoying better sound going into my ears.   The C5 is a well made piece of kit that looks just fine paired with the ipod.    I am looking into a DAC to add to setup (possibly CLAS -r) as feel there is still better refinement to be had.  Will keep posted on combo if and when get.


 

 I have not tried the CLAS-r, but I'm currently using the C5 + ipod classic 7th gen with the go dap socket 1 OPA627 9 volt. Before upgrading to the DAC I was running a LOD out of the ipod and into the C5. I personally cannot believe how much better my portable rig sounds with this DAC....it's really a treat to listen to every day (No way I could go back now either). Detail improved the most, but really every aspect of listening improved.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> I had my C5 in my pocket....and I totally forgot my iPhone was under it. My poor endplate. XD


 
   
  Email us for a set of black endplates. The black anodizing is much stronger.


----------



## kerrys30

jonbmet said:


> Thanks jonbmet. Will try and demo that DAC.
> 
> I have not tried the CLAS-r, but I'm currently using the C5 + ipod classic 7th gen with the go dap socket 1 OPA627 9 volt. Before upgrading to the DAC I was running a LOD out of the ipod and into the C5. I personally cannot believe how much better my portable rig sounds with this DAC....it's really a treat to listen to every day (No way I could go back now either). Detail improved the most, but really every aspect of listening improved.


----------



## ThurstonX

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> The bright dipped finishes are much tougher, although no aluminum surface is 100% scratch resistant.
> 
> Cases and endplates are now available:


 
   
  John,
  a quick question re: the custom engraving. Is the engraving color always white on a red or black case? I've got a design I'd like to use, but I'm not sure about the color (I prefer a red or black case). If possible, would red look OK on a black case, or black on a red case? The design lends itself to those two print colors. I guess the Slate cover is pretty dark, so same questions for that color. I like it, as I already have the red 
   
  I've got a 1110x1110 600ppi image that I think will engrave nicely.
   
  Anyway, looking forward to hearing from you so I can decide and order. PM me as needed.
   
  TIA.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





thurstonx said:


> John,
> a quick question re: the custom engraving. Is the engraving color always white on a red or black case? I've got a design I'd like to use, but I'm not sure about the color (I prefer a red or black case). If possible, would red look OK on a black case, or black on a red case? The design lends itself to those two print colors. I guess the Slate cover is pretty dark, so same questions for that color. I like it, as I already have the red


 
   
  Yes, engraving is always white on an anodized surface. As long as the image is sharp, it will turn out well.


----------



## mld218

Would this be a good amp to use with a rockboxed ipod classic loaded with 16 and 24 bit flac files?
   
  Thanks
  Mike


----------



## ThurstonX

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Yes, engraving is always white on an anodized surface. As long as the image is sharp, it will turn out well.


 
   
  Thanks, John.
   
  I vectorized the JPG, so it should do better. I assume an SVG saved in Inkscape is an acceptable image type.
   
  If I get the slate case, which endplates does it come with? Is it possible to specify the black ones? I'd like to be able to swap between the silver I already have and the black.
   
  Thanks again.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





thurstonx said:


> Thanks, John.
> 
> I vectorized the JPG, so it should do better. I assume an SVG saved in Inkscape is an acceptable image type.
> 
> ...


 
   
  An SVG should work fine. Endplates are available in black or silver.
   
*Edit: *Quick pictures...


----------



## rckyosho

jseaber said:


> An SVG should work fine. Endplates are available in
> black or silver
> .
> 
> ...



Nice John...I actually wanted to house the odac in the red C5 case with black odac endplates but I was not able to find it at your webstore...the advise for shim is there.....but no endplates was offered. Are you going to offer the endplates in different colors for the odac as well? It'll be great if you do than I can start ordering soon! 

@miceblue.....yes true the black endplates sure does match well with the C5 case and from what happen to your C5 endplates I think your just looking for an excuse to change to the black ones


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





rckyosho said:


> Nice John...I actually wanted to house the odac in the red C5 case with black odac endplates but I was not able to find it at your webstore...the advise for shim is there.....but no endplates was offered. Are you going to offer the endplates in different colors for the odac as well? It'll be great if you do than I can start ordering soon!


 
   
  Done! http://www.jdslabs.com/storecat.php?fetchcat=12


----------



## rckyosho

Thanks John!


----------



## ThurstonX

Just got my customized slate case and black end plates. First off I have to give a huge thanks to John and his professionalism! He responded quickly to my emails, and shipped it the same day. That means I got it today, and not Monday 
   
  The laser engraving is not a white the POPS, and that suits me just fine. It's simply stunning, IMO. Here are some photos...
   
   
  The clock is upside down on the first two. Too lazy to re-shoot 'em. It should read 9:12. Or 21:12 
   

   
   

   
   
   
  You can see my thumb print/smudge at the top center of the end plate.  Oops... 
   

   

   
   
   
  Here's how it pairs with the similarly colored iPod Classic.
   

   
   
  It was worth the effort to create the image and figure out how to turn it into a vector image. I imagine it really improved the final engraving. And worth every penny!
   
  Back to that Clockwork Angels tour bootleg


----------



## 808Ronin

Waiting on my postman for my slate c5 as well, to be delivered any minute now.

Current c421 disconnected and awaiting official retirement.


----------



## oakleyguy89

Hey guys, I am considering on getting this amp. My current setup right now is the cmoy bbv2.02 with brainwavz hm5. Do you guys think ill notice much of a difference if I upgrade to this amp?


----------



## miceblue

I must say, the black end plates looks pretty sleek, but silver might be a better match with the red C5 (in my opinion). I don't know too many electronic products that use a red/black combination.
   
  I want to graciously thank *jseaber* for sending me a pair, it was really nice of you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   

   

   
  A note about the sound. I was doing some walking around the city today and I noticed that bass boost + low gain sounded different from bass boost + high gain. I'm not sure if it's due to a higher distortion, but the bass boost + high gain seemed to be less fatiguing and the bass was a bit boomier compared to the bass boost + low gain. Of course volume matching is hard to do if you're mobile listening, so it might be due to my inability to properly volume match.


----------



## akhyar

Nice looking amp you have there. 
I'm using the slate cover and now thinking of changing to all-black cover to match AK100.


----------



## d marc0

clieos said:


> Tube sound to me is all about lushness, and I didn't hear that in E12. Didn't notice the mid is being laid-back as well.If anything, I find O2 more laid back in overall presentation. In fact, I'll say C5 is more forwarded than both O2 and E12. Well, perhaps forward is not the right words - I think C5 has shallower depth, kind of the opposite to E12.




First of all, great review on the H200 clieos. I currently have them paired with the E11 but I'm looking into upgrading my amp. 

I still can't decide between the C5 and E12; was hoping you can give me some insights on which amp pairs better with the H200s. For me, the less coloration in sound sig, the better.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> A note about the sound. I was doing some walking around the city today and I noticed that bass boost + low gain sounded different from bass boost + high gain. I'm not sure if it's due to a higher distortion, but the bass boost + high gain seemed to be less fatiguing and the bass was a bit boomier compared to the bass boost + low gain. Of course volume matching is hard to do if you're mobile listening, so it might be due to my inability to properly volume match.


 
   
  The bass boost curve changes between low and high gain. You're hearing a genuinely different frequency response!


----------



## luisdent

miceblue said:


> I must say, the black end plates looks pretty sleek, but silver might be a better match with the red C5 (in my opinion). I don't know too many electronic products that use a red/black combination.
> 
> I want to graciously thank *jseaber* for sending me a pair, it was really nice of you.




Thats really sexy. Man...


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





d marc0 said:


> First of all, great review on the H200 clieos. I currently have them paired with the E11 but I'm looking into upgrading my amp.
> 
> I still can't decide between the C5 and E12; was hoping you can give me some insights on which amp pairs better with the H200s. For me, the less coloration in sound sig, the better.


 

 If it is H-200, I'll say it pairs better with C5.


----------



## d marc0

Quote: 





clieos said:


> If it is H-200, I'll say it pairs better with C5.


 
   
  Awesome! thanks mate.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





divine33 said:


> Really really sexy. I didn't like the red color for an amp, but that way... I like it!


 
   
  Same here.  I mean, I did think the red was sexy, but the plates were keeping me from loving it and I didn't even know it.  Now the black plates make it look awesome.  It went from valentines to bad@ss. haha
   
   
  Quote: 





> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I just tried this too and found that you're right!  I do hear a difference.  I've never used the high-gain mode much, because I haven't needed the power, but the bass sounds a touch louder at the lowest end when you compare bass boosts.


----------



## rckyosho

The black plates with the original C5 case looks good but the current batch case with black plates look even better!
  Below is a comparison between my original C5 case and the new case and black plates although it houses the ODAC instead.


----------



## Mutnat

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> The bass boost curve changes between low and high gain. You're hearing a genuinely different frequency response!


 
   
  Neat!  Is that the case with the C421 as well, that the bass boost curve is different in low and high gain modes?


----------



## Mooses9

im diggin the black and red. really gives it a nice look.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





mutnat said:


> Neat!  Is that the case with the C421 as well, that the bass boost curve is different in low and high gain modes?


 
   
  Yes, the inflection point changes on c421 also.
   


mooses9 said:


> im diggin the black and red. really gives it a nice look.


 
   
  Surprised to see this much positive feedback for the Red+Black look. Feel free to request black plates when ordering C5.


----------



## d marc0

Surprised to see this much positive feedback for the Red+Black look. Feel free to request black plates when ordering C5.
[/quote]

Thanks! I'll keep that in mind. Will be ordering the c5 in the next couple of weeks!


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Yes, the inflection point changes on c421 also.
> 
> 
> Surprised to see this much positive feedback for the Red+Black look. Feel free to request black plates when ordering C5.


 
   
  I for one just never thought of putting the two together.  It reminds me of this guy.  hahahaha
   
  You must click to see his C5 face. haha


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Ah okay. It's good to know that I'm not going crazy, hahaha.
   
I tried to install the TinyUSB drivers again but on my 32-bit Windows 7 Intel architecture MacBook and I encountered the same issue of Arduino not recognising the device (C5). Again, I selected the C5 board and switched the programmer to the "USBtinyISP."
   

   
I used the website you linked to earlier: http://www.ladyada.net/make/usbtinyisp/usbtinyisp_libusb-win32_1.2.1.0.zip

 I renamed the x86\libusb0_x86.dll file to libusb0.dll, as instructed in the README file
 Ran installer_x86.exe
 Manually placed x86\libusb0.dll and x86\libusb0.sys since the installer didn't do that for some reason
 Installed the latest Arduino software
   
  The recommended SparkFun Electronics pocket AVR programmer has a switch on it; I have it set to "Power Target," although switching it to "No Power" doesn't do anything. The product page has this next to the driver download:
  Quote: 





> based on USBtiny (type 'make all' in the _spi_ directory)


 
  I'm not really sure what the spi directory is.
   
Do you think the problem is with the cut/trimmed programmer headers?
   
   
  I found an almost *I think* working solution. Instead of the above zip file, which doesn't seem to do anything useful, I found this: http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=17112
   
  Downloading the file from the SourceForge link, I used the inf-wizard.exe file and that somehow installed things to get Arduino to recognise the ISP programmer.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/libusb-win32/files/
   
  The previous .zip file that you suggested had this in the README file and the executable file was never in it:
  Quote: 





> x86\inf-wizard.exe: inf-wizard application with embedded libusb-win32
> v1.2.6.0 binaries.


 
   
  However even with these steps taken I still can't completely communicate with the C5:

   
  Proof that the drivers are installed now, but the device cannot be started:


----------



## miceblue

Woah. I got it to work in OS X [10.8.4].
  I increased the volume delay to 500 ms just so I can make sure the uploaded code works, and it does! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   

   
  I was browsing through some of the discussion posts on the SparkFun Electronics' Pocket AVR webpage and one person indirectly suggested downloading "CrossPack for AVR Development" for Mac:
  http://www.obdev.at/products/crosspack/index.html
   
  I installed it, downloaded the latest Arduino programming environment for Mac, placed "boards.txt" in the correct directory, opened the C5's Arduino file, modified the volume delay, picked the C5 board in Tools -> Boards, picked USBtinyISP in Tools -> Programmer, uploaded using programmer, and it works now.
   
  I'll probably spend the next few days tweaking with the code to see what else I can do and I'll write my Head-Fi review afterwards.
   
  If anyone has a Mac and was interested in re-programming some of the C5's code, hopefully this helps.


----------



## jseaber

Frequency response of C5 is measurably flat (see below). It sounds like you're comparing your line out source to the MUSE DAC, and that's where your audible difference originates. Have you tried C5 + MUSE PD1+?


----------



## d marc0

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Frequency response of C5 is measurably flat (see below). It sounds like you're comparing your line out source to the MUSE DAC, and that's where your audible difference originates. Have you tried C5 + MUSE PD1+?


 
   
  Wow! That is impressive! I can't wait to finally purchase the C5. Saving takes time...


----------



## chengsta

Quote: 





divine33 said:


> Got my C5 today. Prefered the combo C&C + MUSE PD1+. I had unbeleavable treble from the MUSE. Almost "organic". I think C5's treble is a bit recessed. Not exactly what I was expecting. Any way I could prefer the C421 AD8620? I'm not really amazed by the C5. It's good, it's very good, but I'm not wow'ed. My friend loved it, including the treble, but I was expecting a MUSE with bass (MUSE has no Bass Boost).
> 
> EDIT: The A829's internal amp compensates a bit the recessed treble of the C5. So, no LOD seems to be the solution for my actual setup.
> 
> Does SQ improve with burn-in?


 

 It sounds like the c5 is very transparent.  It picks up the warmpth from the poor quality interconnect cable + nano.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





divine33 said:


> Got my C5 today. Prefered the combo C&C + MUSE PD1+. I had unbeleavable treble from the MUSE. Almost "organic". I think C5's treble is a bit recessed. Not exactly what I was expecting. Any way I could prefer the C421 AD8620? I'm not really amazed by the C5. It's good, it's very good, but I'm not wow'ed. My friend loved it, including the treble, but I was expecting a MUSE with bass (MUSE has no Bass Boost).
> 
> EDIT: The A829's internal amp compensates a bit the recessed treble of the C5. So, no LOD seems to be the solution for my actual setup.
> 
> Does SQ improve with burn-in?


 
  When I first read your post, I thought you were referring to Muse, the band.




   
  Which C&C amp are you using? I found the BH's treble to be a bit more sparkly compared to the C5 from my listen.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Is this the spot you were referring to? (circled in magenta)

   
  I don't think my soldering iron's tip is small enough to handle surface mount components.
  I see in your changeGain() code that you do refer to the changeLEDs() function, but there is no code within that function for changing the LED upon a change in gain.
   
  As for changes I've made so far, I changed the gain delay to 500 ms and the volume delays to 200 ms. I also commented out the EEPROM.write code so that the C5's gain and volume settings start off at low and 1 (attenuation = 62) respectively whenever I turn on the C5.


----------



## Emospence

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Frequency response of C5 is measurably flat (see below). It sounds like you're comparing your line out source to the MUSE DAC, and that's where your audible difference originates. Have you tried C5 + MUSE PD1+?


 
  Wow. You had my curiosity but now you have my attention


----------



## chengsta

The bass hump says 80 hz, but I know it's probably a typo.  They probably meant 8 hz because only with the c5 can I feel a really low, earth shaking, balance-disorienting, silent bass in certain tracks which I have never heard even with my 15 inch subs + rockford fosgate amp.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





chengsta said:


> The bass hump says 80 hz, but I know it's probably a typo.  They probably meant 8 hz because only with the c5 can I feel a really low, earth shaking, balance-disorienting, silent bass in certain tracks which I have never heard even with my 15 inch subs + rockford fosgate amp.


 
   
  Isn't is awesome? haha.  I think the 80hz is the peak where it is the most centered and powerful.  However, it still extends much lower than 80hz in a boosted state, but rolls back down to normal above 80hz up smoothly into the 500-1000hz range.  But with the peak and majority of the boost in the 80hz and lower you get mostly deep bass response.  Listen to "doin' it right" by daft punk on their new album with the boost on.  When the sub bass comes in, listen to the third bass note, the deepest note.  It's insane. haha  It even makes the er4s sound insane (in a good way)


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## chengsta

I bought a cheap sansa clip zip and rockboxed it.  It sounded really weak on my sony xba 40's which is 8 ohms.  But the zip sounds just awesome with the jh16's at 18 ohms and the really crazy thing is that the jh16's are 2x easier to drive than the supposed lower impedance of the 40's.  Anyway match the zip up with the jds labs c5, and I don't think you really need anything else besides a high end iem/hp if you don't already have one.


----------



## gkanai

C5 with the Signature DJ is pretty amazing. Seriously. Wow.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





divine33 said:


> This is THE bassheads amp. I would risk to say its on par with ZO2 in quantity of bass. With "10x" better SQ, of course.


 
  Yeah that's what I said earlier. It sounds like the green-yellow setting of the ZO2 from memory.
   

   
  So I've been working on the coding of the C5 and I managed to make it have a fast-blinking LED for when high-gain mode is toggled, and the change in volume is slower in high gain to reduce dramatic changes in volume. With this, I have a visual indication of when I am on high gain and a smoother volume control experience.
   
  Also, I was trying to make it so that there are 3 different modes that can be toggled by pressing the gain switch, but I don't quite understand how the "gainstate" value is altered. When you push the button, how does gainstate's value change? In the code it just has
  Quote: 





> if(gainstate < 1){
> gainstate = 1;
> }


 
  and prior to that, gainstate is initialised as: gainstate = 0
   
  So I'm not really sure how the button affects the value of gainstate.
   
  I did mess around with the code today and I did manage to get 3-ish "meh" modes by toggling the gain button, but the end results were iffy and they didn't work out the way I thought they would.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Yeah that's what I said earlier. It sounds like the green-yellow setting of the ZO2 from memory.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  'Gainstate' stores the value of gain. To create new modes of button functionality, you'll need to modify the main loop with a new state variable and 'select case' to execute code based on the current state. Try this old development code:
   


Spoiler: C5 Rev0.68, Development Firmware 0.95 -- Use at own risk



 
  // c5 Rev0.68 Firmware
  // ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  // Version:     0.95 [All functionality and EEPROM working
  // Date:        11/04/2012
  // Author:      John @ JDS Labs, Inc.
  // Requires:    Arduino Bootloader
  // License:     Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported
  //              http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/deed.en_US
   
  #include <Wire.h>
  #include <EEPROM.h>
   
  // PINOUTS
  int upButton = 2;       // Attenuation UP pushbutton
  int downButton = 5;     // Attenuation DOWN pushbutton
  int centerButton = 0;   // Center pushbutton
  int PWRVOLLED = 4;      // PCB LED1, green (bi-color chip)
  int GAINLED = 3;        // PCB LED3, supports PWM
  int BASSLED = 9;        // PCB LED4, supports PWM
  int ENPOSREG = 6;       // Pin to enable +7V LDO
  int ENNEGREG = 7;       // Pin to enable -7V LDO
  int GAIN = A1;          // Pin to control gain
  int POTPOWER = A2;      // 5V to DS1882 IC logic
  int PREBOOST = A7;      // USB or battery voltage, 2.7-5.5VDC
   
  // Temporary variables
  int uptemp = 0;
  int downtemp = 0;
  int centertemp = 0;                               // NOTE: Attenuation & bass should be stored in non-volatile memory later. Pots remember their value; MCU does not.
  int currentMode = 0;                              // Stores current mode of operation
  int gainstate = 0;                                // Stores current gain
  byte attenuation = 62;                            // Attenuation value of volume potentiometer gangs. Initially set to minimum volume.
  byte bass = 63;                                   // Value of bass potentiometer gangs. Initially set to no bass boost.
  byte tempattenuation = 0;                         // Holds attenuation value for second pot bitwise operation
  byte tempbass = 0;                                // Holds bass balue for second pot bitwise operation
  byte bassfadeval = 0;
  float BattVoltage = 5;                            // Temp variable to read battery voltage
  float LowVoltageThreshold = 3.51;                 // Voltage at which low battery flashing begins. 3.50V should yield 45-90 minute warning.
  float HighVoltageThreshold = 3.55;
  int flashState = LOW;                             // For flashing power LED during low battery
  unsigned long lastMillis = 0;                     // Time of last battery check
  boolean lowBatt = false;
   
  void setup()
  {
    delay(50);                                      // Wait for power to stabilize, then setup I/O pins
   
    pinMode(POTPOWER, OUTPUT);
    pinMode(ENNEGREG, OUTPUT);
    pinMode(ENPOSREG, OUTPUT);
    pinMode(GAIN, OUTPUT);
    pinMode(BASSLED, OUTPUT);
    pinMode(GAINLED, OUTPUT);
    pinMode(PWRVOLLED, OUTPUT);
    pinMode(upButton, INPUT);                       // Declare pushbuttons as inputs
    pinMode(downButton, INPUT);
    pinMode(centerButton, INPUT);
   
    digitalWrite(ENPOSREG, HIGH);                  // Enable +7V LDO
    digitalWrite(ENNEGREG, HIGH);                  // Enable -7V LDO
    delay(50);                                     // Wait for power to stabilize
    digitalWrite(PWRVOLLED, LOW);                  // Turn Power LED on, turn gain and bass LEDs off
    digitalWrite(GAINLED, HIGH);
    digitalWrite(BASSLED, HIGH);
    digitalWrite(POTPOWER, HIGH);                  // Enable DS1882 IC's
    delay(25); 
    digitalWrite(GAIN, LOW);                       // Set gain low
    
    Wire.begin();                                  // Join the I2C bus as master device
   
    // Sets DS1882 registers to nonvolatile memory, zero-crossing enabled, and 64 tap positions (pg 10 of datasheet)
    // FUTURE: This only needs to be performed once--read register and only write if necessary!
    tempattenuation = B10000110;
    Wire.beginTransmission(40);                    // Set parameters of volume potentiometers
    Wire.write(tempattenuation);
    Wire.endTransmission();
    delay(25);
    Wire.beginTransmission(42);                    // Set parameters of bass potentiometers
    Wire.write(tempattenuation);
    Wire.endTransmission();
    
    // Retrieve volume, gain, and bass values from EEPROM. Set default values if EEPROM is new or corrupted.
    attenuation = EEPROM.read(0);
    gainstate = EEPROM.read(1);
    bass = EEPROM.read(2);
    
    if(gainstate > 1)
    {
      gainstate = 0;
    }
    changeGain();
    
    if(bass > 63)
    {
      bass = 63;
    }
    changeBass();
   
    if(attenuation > 63)
    {
      attenuation = 62;
    }
    changeVolume();
    
  }
   
  void loop()
  {
    uptemp = digitalRead(upButton);                  // Read the up pushbutton
    downtemp = digitalRead(downButton);              // Read the down pushbutton
    centertemp = digitalRead(centerButton);          // Read the center pushbutton
   
   
   // User pressed center pushbutton
    if (centertemp == HIGH) {
      delay(50);                                     // Simple debounce: wait and see if user actually pushed the button
      if (centertemp == HIGH) {                      // If user pressed center pushbutton, increment to next mode (volume = 0, gain = 1, bass = 2)
          if(currentMode < 2){
            currentMode++;      
          }
          else
          {
            currentMode = 0;
          }
          changeLEDs();
          delay(333);                                // Wait for 1/3 of a second to prevent additional button presses
      }
    }
   
    switch(currentMode){  
      case 0:
      // ---Volume Mode---
      // First IF statement LOWERS volume. DS1808 has a range of 0-33; DS1882 has range of 0-63. So, for DS1882:
      //       attenuation = 0 = max volume
      //       attenuation = 62 = minimum volume
      //       attenuation = 63 = mute
      if (uptemp == HIGH) {
        delay(55);                                      // Simple debounce: wait and see if user actually pushed the button
        if ((uptemp == HIGH) && (attenuation < 63)) {   // If user pressed button and volume isn't already at min.
            //digitalWrite(testLED, HIGH);
            attenuation++;                              // Increase the potentiometer attenuation value
            changeVolume();    
        }
      }  
      // Same method for decrementing attenuation (RAISES volume)
      if (downtemp == HIGH) {
        delay(55);                                      // Simple debounce: wait and see if user actually pushed the button
        if ((downtemp == HIGH) && (attenuation > 0)) {  // If user pressed button and volume isn't already at max.
            //digitalWrite(testLED, LOW);
            attenuation--;                              // Decrease the potentiometer attenuation value
            changeVolume();
        }
      } 
     break;
     
    case 1:
    // ---Gain Mode---
        if (uptemp == HIGH) {
        delay(55);                                     // Simple debounce: wait and see if user actually pushed the button
        if (uptemp == HIGH) {                          // Set Gain Low
          gainstate = 0;
          changeGain();
        }
      }  
      // Same, for changing to Low High
      if (downtemp == HIGH) {
        delay(55);
        if (downtemp == HIGH) {
          gainstate = 1;
          changeGain();
        }
      } 
     break;
     
    case 2:
    // ---Bass Boost Mode---                     ** Using min & max values for testing; implement lookup table of best values for production **
      if (uptemp == HIGH) {
        delay(55);                                     // Simple debounce: wait and see if user actually pushed the button
        if ((uptemp == HIGH) && (bass < 62)) {         // If user pressed button and bass isn't already at max.
            bass = 63;                              // Was "bass++;"...testing On and Off version
            changeBass();    
        }
      }  
      // Same, DECREASES bass boost
      if (downtemp == HIGH) {
        delay(55);
        if ((downtemp == HIGH) && (bass > 2)) {
            bass = 0;                                // Was "bass--;"
            changeBass();
        }
      } 
    } // End switch
   
    if ((millis() - lastMillis) > 500)  // Checks battery voltage every 500mS
    {      checkBattery();
          lastMillis = millis();
    }
    
  }
   
  void changeVolume()
  {
        // Update first potentiometer gang, where pot address is first two bits of attenuation: 00 ######
        Wire.beginTransmission(40);                 // Transmit to DS1808, device #40 (0x28) = 0101 000, LSB is auto sent by Arduino Wire
        Wire.write(attenuation);                    // Write wiper value
        Wire.endTransmission();                     // Stop transmitting    
        
        // Update second potentiometer gang. Same process, where pot address is now: 01 ######.
        // (each I2C transmission should be started stopped individually)
        tempattenuation = B01000000 | attenuation;          // Attenuation value is bitwise OR'ed with address byte fpr second pot gang
        Wire.beginTransmission(40);
        Wire.write(tempattenuation);
        Wire.endTransmission();
        
  }
   
  void changeGain()
  {
    digitalWrite(GAIN, gainstate);
    changeLEDs();
  }
   
  void changeBass()
  {
        // Update first potentiometer gang
        Wire.beginTransmission(42);                 // Transmit to DS1808, device #42 = 0101 010, LSB is auto sent by Arduino Wire
        Wire.write(bass); 
        Wire.endTransmission();   
        
        // Update second potentiometer gang
        tempbass = B01000000 | bass;                // Bass value is bitwise OR'ed with address byte for second pot gang
        Wire.beginTransmission(42);
        Wire.write(tempbass);
        Wire.endTransmission();
        
        changeLEDs();                              // Update bass LED brightness
  }
   
  void changeLEDs()
  {
    switch(currentMode){
        case 0:
        // ---Volume Mode---    
        digitalWrite(GAINLED, HIGH);
        digitalWrite(BASSLED, HIGH);
        EEPROM.write(0, attenuation);            // Store attenuation value in EEPROM location 0, wait 4ms for write to complete
        delay(4);                               
        break;
        
        case 1:
        // ---Gain Mode---
        //digitalWrite(PWRVOLLED, LOW);
        digitalWrite(BASSLED, HIGH);
        if(gainstate < 1){
          analogWrite(GAINLED, 160);
        }
        else{
          analogWrite(GAINLED, 0);
        }
        EEPROM.write(1, gainstate);              // Store gain value in EEPROM location 1
        delay(4);
        break;
        
        case 2:
        // ---Bass Mode---
        //digitalWrite(PWRVOLLED, LOW);
        digitalWrite(GAINLED, HIGH);
        //bassfadeval = (255 - (bass*155/63));
        bassfadeval = (100 + (bass*155/63));
        analogWrite(BASSLED, bassfadeval);
        EEPROM.write(2, bass);                  // Store bass value in EEPROM location 2
        delay(4);
    }
  }
   
  //void checkBattery()
  //{
  //    BattVoltage = (float)analogRead(PREBOOST)*4.95/1023;   // Note: 4.95V is imperical value of c5 5V rail
  //    
  //    if((BattVoltage < LowVoltageThreshold) && (flashState == LOW))
  //    {
  //      flashState = HIGH;
  //      digitalWrite(PWRVOLLED, flashState);
  //    }
  //    else if(((BattVoltage < LowVoltageThreshold) && (flashState == HIGH)) || ((BattVoltage > LowVoltageThreshold) && (flashState == HIGH)))
  //    {
  //      flashState = LOW;
  //      digitalWrite(PWRVOLLED, flashState); 
  //    }
   
  void checkBattery()
  {
      BattVoltage = (float)analogRead(PREBOOST)*4.95/1023;   // Note: 4.95V is imperical value of c5 5V rail
      
      if(BattVoltage > HighVoltageThreshold){
        flashState = LOW;
      }
      else if(BattVoltage < LowVoltageThreshold) {
        lowBatt = true;
      }
    
      if(lowBatt == true && flashState == LOW){
        flashState = HIGH;
      }
      else{
        flashState = LOW;
      }
      digitalWrite(PWRVOLLED, flashState); 
      
  }


----------



## Padawan38

Hello
   
  Maybe the question already spotted, does the C5 has asynchronous usb input ?
  thx


----------



## ostewart

USB is for charging, it has no DAC.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> 'Gainstate' stores the value of gain. To create new modes of button functionality, you'll need to modify the main loop with a new state variable and 'select case' to execute code based on the current state. Try this old development code:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Oh wow I didn't know Arduino had a "switch" case statement. That worked quite well and now everything works as planned. Thank you so much for the suggestion!
   
  Now my C5 has 3 modes of operation:

 Low gain mode, normal volume speed toggle, no flashing LED
 Low gain mode, slow volume speed toggle, fast-blinking LED
 High gain mode, slower volume speed toggle, faster-blinking LED
   
  Finally I am ready to write my review. XD


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Oh wow I didn't know Arduino had a "switch" case statement. That worked quite well and now everything works as planned. Thank you so much for the suggestion!
> 
> Now my C5 has 3 modes of operation:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Is it possible to make the volume have more steps or be smoother?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  More steps? I don't believe so, but you can change the delay so that it takes longer to adjust the volume (e.g. mode 2 for me takes twice as long to increment the volume, or 110 ms versus the original 55 ms).
   
  In the code there's a comment that says:
  Quote: 





> DS1808 has a range of 0-33; DS1882 has range of 0-63. So, for DS1882


 
  Where DS1882 is the digital potentiometer used in the C5.
  Quote: 





> Configuration Option 1: 63 Positions Provide 1dB Attenuation Steps from 0dB to -62dB Plus Mute
> Configuration Option 2: (Software-Compatible with the DS1808): 33 Positions Plus Mute as Follows
> Positions 0–12: 1dB per Step for 12 Steps
> Positions 13–24: 2dB per Step for 12 Steps
> Positions 25–32: 3dB per Step for 8 Steps


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> More steps? I don't believe so, but you can change the delay so that it takes longer to adjust the volume (e.g. mode 2 for me takes twice as long to increment the volume, or 110 ms versus the original 55 ms).
> 
> In the code there's a comment that says:
> Where DS1882 is the digital potentiometer used in the C5.


 
   
  O.k.  I was aware of that mod, but perhaps I'm just picky, but even though the C5 is the most fine volume stepping I've heard in a portable device, I still wish there were half steps between every step sometimes.  It's like one half notch more sometimes would give me the perfect reference comfortable volume.  However, the full step takes it ever so slightly higher than I'd like.  Again, this is a pretty small thing.  It's still a very fine adjustment.  Better than the ipod touch volume buttons, which I can't stand.  And all of this is with my 100ohm er4s.  I can't imagine using a sensitive IEM...


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> O.k.  I was aware of that mod, but perhaps I'm just picky, but even though the C5 is the most fine volume stepping I've heard in a portable device, I still wish there were half steps between every step sometimes.  It's like one half notch more sometimes would give me the perfect reference comfortable volume.


 
   
  We had a few options when designing C5:
   
*A) Use an analog potentiometer*
 Pros: Low cost, excellent THD, manual knob
  Cons: Channel imbalance
   
*B) Use a high performance digital potentiometer*
  Pros: Perfect channel balance, great THD, really smooth volume transitions (1dB)
  Cons: No manual knob, higher cost
   
*C) Use dual, high performance digital potentiometers in series*
  Pros: Perfect channel balance, hundreds of discrete steps
  Cons: THD degrades by a factor of 2, changing volume would be very slow, no manual knob, very high cost
   
*D) Use Analog knob + Dual digital potentiometers*
  Pros: Same as (C), but easy to quickly transition from low to high volumes
  Cons: Highest cost, THD degrades by a factor of 2 compared to (A) or (B)
   
   
  C5 was built for performance, so we eliminated options (C) and (D) due to their negative impact on THD. A 64-step digital potentiometer outperforms Alps RK097's and similar analog potentiometers, especially at low volumes. 
   
  Here's an analog, Alps RK097 pot transitioning through its full range:

   
   
  Here's the digital, 64-step DS1882 pot in C5:

   
   
  It's pretty clear that the DS1882 is smoother. While there's always room for improvement, you won't find a better volume control until the chip companies produce better performing 128+ step parts. All of them I've looked at are junk in terms of THD. Smaller chips are the trend these days, but as the chips go smaller, it becomes very challenging to maintain good THD. Notice the DS1882 is a rather large chip that's been around for years already. To make a truly perfect volume control, you could build a discrete, stepped attenuator with as many steps as you desire. Those are huge (not portable), and it's rare to fit even half the number of steps as C5 into such a control. Getting off-topic...
   
  All of this discussion is a moot point if you can control volume at your DAC or DAP. Knock source volume down from 100% to 90-95% when you need that tiny 0.25dB volume change. Of coures, this isn't possible for LOD users.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> We had a few options when designing C5:
> 
> *A) Use an analog potentiometer*
> Pros: Low cost, excellent THD, manual knob
> ...


 
   
  I'm a LOD user, so that isn't a possibility.  As for quality, I would have chosen the same path you did and went for quality over volume steps.  However, in a perfect world, if the C5 is 1db volume steps, I'd prefer .5 db volume steps.  The volume speed is more than fast enough for me personally.  In fact, I usually click the volume button over manually in steps.  I never hold it down more than a moment initially, because it is too fast for precise adjustments.  Then I manually click it a few steps to get it right.  But again, I'd take quality over quantity (of steps)  
   
  I want all of the pros and none of the cons.  Make it happen John!  hahaha


----------



## miceblue

Mmk I finally wrote my review for the C5:
  http://www.head-fi.org/products/jds-labs-c5-headphone-amplifier/reviews/9198
   
  And I also uploaded a video on YouTube explaining how to re-program the digital potentiometer for Mac users:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeeiqeQr3Yk


----------



## paddycrow

Nice review. I have to say those black end plates look sweet.


----------



## miceblue

How does the silver cable sound compared to a copper one with the C5?


----------



## luisdent

divine33 said:


> Huge difference from pure silver to copper.




Is this due to differences in impedance?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It might be, or the electrical conductance.
   
  I have tried silver cables versus my copper FiiO L2 and the silver makes the midrange more textured and a bit brighter. The brightness is why I was asking about silver vs copper for the C5.


----------



## ostewart

I'm always up for making interconnects 
  Divines cable is made with toxic cables pure silver.


----------



## musicbased

Which lod cable would be best for ER4s?-Silver or copper?-Or perhaps silver plated copper?
  Does it really make any difference??


----------



## musicbased

Thanks.


----------



## chengsta

I would have to say yes, there is a difference between silver, copper, and spc is in between.  However, its almost impossible to tell the difference between same type cables for example, a toxic silver cable, and a chris_himself silver cable.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





musicbased said:


> Which lod cable would be best for ER4s?-Silver or copper?-Or perhaps silver plated copper?
> Does it really make any difference??


 
   
  All of the companies that design these earphones use basic copper interconnect cables.   Think about it.  The cables of the earphones are basic thin copper.  Just sayin'    Not that there is or isn't a difference, but they don't use silver cables in their design testing.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





divine33 said:


> Too expensive. They're in this market to earn (alot of ) money.


 
  My point is that they don't design them for use with silver cables, etc. etc.  The sound that they target and achieve is based on typical copper cables.  That's all.  Again, they may change the sound, but it isn't necessarily going to be "an improvement", as it wasn't designed to sound that way, but some people may prefer it....


----------



## chengsta

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> My point is that they don't design them for use with silver cables, etc. etc.  The sound that they target and achieve is based on typical copper cables.  That's all.  Again, they may change the sound, but it isn't necessarily going to be "an improvement", as it wasn't designed to sound that way, but some people may prefer it....


 
   
  Yep I was thinking that too, which is why I'm still going to keep the original cables and try them again one day.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





chengsta said:


> Yep I was thinking that too, which is why I'm still going to keep the original cables and try them again one day.


 
   
  That's cool.    Whatever makes people happy with their music is all that matters in my opinion.  Just being analytical about the situation.


----------



## rckyosho

luisdent said:


> My point is that they don't design them for use with silver cables, etc. etc.  The sound that they target and achieve is based on typical copper cables.  That's all.  Again, they may change the sound, but it isn't necessarily going to be "an improvement", as it wasn't designed to sound that way, but some people may prefer it....



Yes so true, it's quite amusing when you think about it. Let me just quote from blue jeans cables.....


> Exotic Materials and Cable Construction
> It's not too hard to understand why a lot of discussion of quality cables focuses on the materials used in cable construction. Just as with any physical product, the materials cables are made out of influence their performance characteristics, and so people want to know that the cables they're buying are made from the best possible materials.
> 
> Many high-priced cables are made with materials for which special claims of high performance are made. The most common among these are silver instead of or in addition to copper, "oxygen-free" copper, and Teflon. We'll address each of these in turn and explain what they are, what their characteristics are, and whether they make sense for particular applications.
> ...


----------



## musicbased

...and i just bought a silver cable last night!
  Oh well, i'l wait and see how it sounds.


----------



## AladdinSane

If you're interested, here is my stealth C5 with slate enclosure and black end plates.


----------



## rckyosho

musicbased said:


> ...and i just bought a silver cable last night!
> Oh well, i'l wait and see how it sounds.



No worries....enjoy it...who knows you might prefer it though preferences and accuracy is two different beast.


----------



## ostewart

For headphones silver might not necessarily be better, like with my Alclair I didn't like SPC, prefer copper. But interconnects I always use silver.


----------



## Mooses9

imo you better have silver interconnects or lod if you are going to be using a silver headphone cable. to fully get the benifits of silver.
   
  in my expierence silver has the best sound signature offers crisp.clean clear mids, wide soundstage. i wanna say a little sterile or aggressive probably for  some peoples liking . 
   
  silver plated copper gives you the best of both worlds if you want to stay a little dynamic and not so clean and aggressive. SPC gives you the dynamic sounding low feq's with the silver mids and highs.
   
   
  and obviously copper offers the most dynamic sounding of the 3 while being non aggressive,non sterile, and a little warmer or dark.
   
   
  again your expierences may vary depending on the iem being used. the amp, the dac the cable and the interconnects ALL of that has to be taken into consideration.
   
  i personally just went from a BTG_Audio sunrise copper cable, to the Chis_Himself Neotech Pure Silver cable with my westone w4r's and imo i can definitly tell a differece between the 2.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





aladdinsane said:


> If you're interested, here is my stealth C5 with slate enclosure and black end plates.


 
  That's a nice setup! Do you have anything placed between the C5 and the iPod?


----------



## AladdinSane

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> That's a nice setup! Do you have anything placed between the C5 and the iPod?


 
  Yes. I cut another of the silicone bracelets into a couple strips that I lay between the two. Kind of crude but does the job of keeping them from rubbing/slipping and you don't see them anyway. Adds a little more height as well which helps to keep the straps a bit tighter. For a couple bucks I'll take the result vs. some other options.
   
  Originally I had inquired to ALO Audio about their amp straps which come in packs of three for $20. I wanted four even though it seemed a tad rich for what it was. When they finally got back to me via email I indicated I'd come up with another solution. Now I see they have lowered their price to $10. Coincidence?
   
  Back on topic. Haven't got a lot of time with the C5 but what I have heard has been very promising! It will get a good workout on my upcoming vacation that will include about ten hours of flying.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





rckyosho said:


> No worries....enjoy it...who knows you might prefer it though preferences and accuracy is two different beast.


 
   
  The good thing about some of these cables is that even if they don't necessarily sound better, they are usually much higher quality build than cheaper cables.  So at a minimum you probably have a very nice cable...  At best you might find you like its sound as well...


----------



## musicbased

I do hope so!
  I don't have another one to compare it to anyway.
  My only concern is if it pushes the treble too far on the er4s.


----------



## chengsta

Well, now I got the stock interconnector that came with one of my 3 amps (i forget which), a silver plated copper interconnect, and just an hour ago a silver interconnect.  I have to say wow, even that makes a difference.  Doesn't have to be expensive at all.  The silver interconnect totally blows away any warmpth that I was complaining about in the jh16's, and now its actually a little too bright.  Mind you I also got a silver iem cable connected so now its a pure silver system.  The stock interconnector though had the most bass impact and body.  The spc had smooth vocals but surprisingly a tad less bass impact (But in all fairness it only cost $7.00 free shipping).
   
  So from my experience:
   
  silver:  brightest and most detailed of the 3.  However bass is noticeably thinner, noticeably less rumble.  No matter how much I try to eq it, the bass won't come back.  If I eq the bass regions, the bass distorts.  However the other 2 ic cables don't distort when I eq the bass...
   
  spc:  Vocals are smoother and less piercing, and sounds a bit more realistic.  However bass impact is slightly less, but it could be just my perception due to the vocals being a bit more forward.  Treble takes a step back though, certain high notes sound a tone(is that the right word?) lower, and there is less detail if you pay close attention, especially to strings.
   
  stock:  good detail, best bass of the 3.  I think this is actually the most balanced of the 3. kinda surprising because I think it's just copper.
   
  overall im going to stick with the silver for the brightness and detail.  The bass is still there, just not all of it.  But it's a good tradeoff to get rid of the warmpth of my jh16's.  I'll really miss that rumble though.
   
  I'll shut up now seeing that this is a jds labs c5 thread.  But in my defense, it is somewhat related because I'm comparing them using the c5.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  edit:  this is all done with the c5 bass boost switch on, of course.  I can't live without that feature.  That being said, the silver may just be wayyy too bright without the boost.
   
  One more edit:  I'm torn between the stock and silver now.  The stock brings you in a bit closer to the music, to where you can actually hear the strings being plucked and it's just oh so satisfying to hear that string vibration.  You can't hear the strings being plucked too well on the silver, probably because you're not as close to the music playing, so the timbre is a little weak.


----------



## musicbased

Do you mean there is still not enough bass even with the bass boost on and eq?
   
  why would one cable distort the sound with eq and the other two be ok?-Not doubting you, just curious! -(and slightly concerned about my silver cable on the way!..)


----------



## chengsta

Sorry, there is enough bass with the silver.  However I'm just used to the stock (and spc) bass, it's just weightier and more rumbly (and makes your head bob and toes tap harder).  That being said though, the bass that the silver gives is just right for all genres (for me anyway).  The stock and spc interconnects are sometimes too much and sound out of place with most rock, some metal, and very few orchestra;  I sometimes have to turn the switch off when those songs come up --not with the silver though.
   
  When I try to recreate the bass weight and rumble of the spc and stock ic --by eq'ing the bass regions of 30, 60, 120hz the music just distorts on the silver.  I believe that the distortion is not caused by the silver ic itself, but just that it is really transparent.  The distortion is probably carried over from the clip zip player because I hear the distortion when i just plug directly into it.  The stock and spc ic cable though, probably just smoothens/masks the distortion better.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





chengsta said:


> Well, now I got the stock interconnector that came with one of my 3 amps (i forget which), a silver plated copper interconnect, and just an hour ago a silver interconnect.  I have to say wow, even that makes a difference.  Doesn't have to be expensive at all.  The silver interconnect totally blows away any warmpth that I was complaining about in the jh16's, and now its actually a little too bright.  Mind you I also got a silver iem cable connected so now its a pure silver system.  The stock interconnector though had the most bass impact and body.  The spc had smooth vocals but surprisingly a tad less bass impact (But in all fairness it only cost $7.00 free shipping).
> 
> So from my experience:
> 
> ...


 
  Yeah that was kind of what I was thinking when using a silver interconnect with the C5. I'll be attending a local Head-Fi meet within the month and one of the fellow Head-Fiers made a custom [cheap] silver interconnect cable. I'll try it for myself and see if it does indeed sound good with the C5.


----------



## chengsta

Quote: 





divine33 said:


> You need a better DAP


 
   


 I don't doubt that.  Since getting the jh16's I've been able to hear very minute details, so much that it does kinda bother me a bit.  It even allows me to hear the distortion from the best 'bang for the buck' clip zip.  Also in reality, the differences between the cables are noticable, but probably not as big a deal as I'm making it.  I'm only making it a big deal because I guess my hearing is really sensitive and little things like that bother me.  Also note, my hearing and vision has benefited from many generations of ninja warfare.


----------



## chengsta

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Yeah that was kind of what I was thinking when using a silver interconnect with the C5. I'll be attending a local Head-Fi meet within the month and one of the fellow Head-Fiers made a custom [cheap] silver interconnect cable. I'll try it for myself and see if it does indeed sound good with the C5.


 

 I'd also like to hear your thoughts when that happens.


----------



## Dark Helmet

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Yeah that was kind of what I was thinking when using a silver interconnect with the C5. I'll be attending a local Head-Fi meet within the month and one of the fellow Head-Fiers made a custom [cheap] silver interconnect cable. I'll try it for myself and see if it does indeed sound good with the C5.


 
  Remind me the day before the show to bring it.  I also have a LOD with solid silver that I built but didn't bring last time.  I've been heading down the tube path.  Haven't been using the portable stuff much lately.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





dark helmet said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Ah okay. Sounds like a plan.
   
  Tubes eh? The only time I've enjoyed the HD800 was with Bottlehead's rig. 
  I wonder how the HD800 will sound with the C5. I recall someone saying it sounds pretty good actually. From an old power calculations post, I think the C5 should provide sufficient power for it.


----------



## Dark Helmet

Actually I am running the Bottlehead Crack with the Speedball upgrade and a Goldpoint stepped attenuator. I love it!


----------



## Nukeshock

hey anybody can compare a X02 to the c5 ? iv got the X02 and have been happy for like 2 years and have not been in the amp scene since...and upgrade fever has got my wallet in a choke hold and i love the look of the red C5 !!! can anyone do a comparision ? are they in the same league is the X02 in a higher league because its like S$100 more expensive than the C5 ???


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Hi,
   
  I've been reading this very interested thread on and _off _for months.
  Obviously, I havent read many posts.
  Let me digress that I'm an extremely 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 happy owner of the *JDS Labs  ODAC* and *O2* (as two separates).
   
  The following question has been  bugging me for months.
  How does the *C5*'s channel imbalance, or should I say
  almost perfect channel balance even at very low volume levels
   
  Quote: 





> Channel Balance +/- 0.55 dB, all volume positions


 
   
  compare to the O2's _slight _imbalance at (very) low levels?
   
  Numbers please!
   
  Thanx for reading.


----------



## ostewart

C5 has no audible imbalance, O2 does at low volumes as you know.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





ostewart said:


> C5 has no audible imbalance, O2 does at low volumes as you know.


 
   
  Or you could say the C5 has a lot of audible awesomeness....


----------



## chengsta

C5's bass is unmatched (so far anyway, and not all iems can handle it).  I don't notice any imbalance even at low levels.  Also, I would just stick with the x02(I think it's also nicknamed the '02' right?) because I heard they're almost identical.


----------



## chengsta

Quote: 





divine33 said:


> He's talking about the C&C XO2 ; )


 

 ok nvm then lol, I thought he meant the objective 2.


----------



## luisdent

chengsta said:


> ok nvm then lol, I thought he meant the objective 2.


So did i


----------



## Nukeshock

Quote: 





chengsta said:


> C5's bass is unmatched (so far anyway, and not all iems can handle it).  I don't notice any imbalance even at low levels.  Also, I would just stick with the x02(I think it's also nicknamed the '02' right?) because I heard they're almost identical.


 
  trust me when i say this...when the bass boost switch on the X02 is on... my Dt880 literally vibrate on the table...now im looking for a more compact amp and something that looks nicer hahahaha the C5 seems to pass the mark. the red one looks oh so good and it seems perfect , im going to check with my local etailer if i can demo one of his units and i can compare them =)


----------



## musicbased

Just ordered mine!-V excited to hear it.

Luisdent,are you using the latest iPod touch with yours?-How is the sound on the latest one?Im thinking of getting one to go with it, but not too keen on having to use the lightning adapter thing!..How does it compare to the ipod classic 6th gen line out?( which i see you also used!)


----------



## luisdent

musicbased said:


> Just ordered mine!-V excited to hear it.
> 
> Luisdent,are you using the latest iPod touch with yours?-How is the sound on the latest one?Im thinking of getting one to go with it, but not too keen on having to use the lightning adapter thing!..How does it compare to the ipod classic 6th gen line out?( which i see you also used!)


Yes 64gb 5th gen touch. With line out i can't tell the difference between them, but headphone out the classic is the teensiest bit sharper sounding. Very small difference. However, with both, the line out and c5 combo sounds a bit better on any earphone. More noticeable difference with something like the er4s. The adapter isn't too bad with a flexible cable like the btg. I wasn't digging the fiio l3/l9. In fact one died. With the btg cable it's easier to have the ipod straight on top of the c5. I can post more pics later.


----------



## musicbased

That would be great,thanks!
The new touch looks really good,and eq apps would be useful too,but the 160gb storage of the classic,and the fact it just plays music is also tempting..(I already have an iPhone).Plus it still has the 30 pin dock,so no adapter needed.
It all depends on the sound in the end though, so It's nice to hear that there isn't much difference sound wise between the two,especially as I would pretty much always be using the line out to the C5.


----------



## luisdent

This was a pretty big post, so I moved it over to my blog with a link back to this discussion.  Hope this is helpful to someone. 
   
http://handtokey.blogspot.com/2013/07/for-anyone-considering-purchasing-c5.html


----------



## musicbased

Thanks very much for that, i found it incredibly useful!
   
  The ipod touch is so thin and light,it would be perfect, but i can't help feeling it's such a shame it needs to have that huge adapter sticking out the bottom!-For me, looking at those pictures, the classic actually seems to fit a lot nicer for that reason even though it's clearly a lot fatter and weightier.
   
  Is there any chance of somebody building a lightning LOD at some point??-I would rather get the older ipod touch to avoid the adapter at this stage.
   
  I would have thought that the cable version of the adapter would be better for those fiio lods wouldn't it?-Making the cable longer and decreasing the strain on the connecters?-But i read in an earlier post that you swapped from the cable version to that one, so clearly not!
   
  Hmmm, thanks again for those pictures!-Really great comparison of what to expect.
   
  Your btg lod cable looks very good too. I have a silver lod cable on the way, so i might get the one you recommend too though to see if i can detect any sound differences.
   
  Hmmm....Very tricky decision this!


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





musicbased said:


> Thanks very much for that, i found it incredibly useful!
> 
> The ipod touch is so thin and light,it would be perfect, but i can't help feeling it's such a shame it needs to have that huge adapter sticking out the bottom!-For me, looking at those pictures, the classic actually seems to fit a lot nicer for that reason even though it's clearly a lot fatter and weightier.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I love the BTG cable.  I'm hoping the 30 pin connector lasts, but otherwise it seems an excellent quality build.
   
  As for the cable lightning adapter.  it was way too long.  The cable isn't short enough so it sticks out very far.  Because of this, it creates even more awkward angles and bends and is simply impossible to work with.  I do not recommend it at all.  Just look at this thing...  It doesn't want to flex much, so it's impossible to safely sit the ipod on the C5.
   
   

   

   
  I don't have a photo, but the other FIIO was just as bad with it, but in different awkward angle ways... 
   
  I think the issue with the new ipod is that the line out circuitry is in the adapter, not the ipod from what I've read.  Therefore, it makes it stick out farther.  However, with the BTG having a short 30 pin connector it's about as good as it gets with the 5g touch.
   
  If you are ONLY concerned about audio and you are definitely not going to use any EQ, than I would personally get a classic.  My classic's drive is half dead, so I can only sync so many songs to it before it crashes (6.5 years old, not too bad).  But I use a little EQ on the touch, so I don't think I'd want the classic anymore.  Plus the 5G is so much better than the 4G in every way.  High res, brighter screen, better app ability, thinner, lighter, sexier, etc.
   
  I don't have any real problems with mine and the C5 connections.  My only problem is the small 64gb capacity.  ugh.   I cut my classic in half!  Noooooo!  But I really don't want another hard drive based player, as it doesn't have EQ and is more likely to fail from physical movement.


----------



## musicbased

Lol, see what you mean about that cable adapter now!-I was thinking it was more flexible than that.
Aagghh,its no good, it's going to have to be the new iPod touch I think!
Thanks so much for all your help.
My C5 has been sent now,can't wait to try it out!


----------



## BB 808

musicbased said:


> Lol, see what you mean about that cable adapter now!-I was thinking it was more flexible than that.
> Aagghh,its no good, it's going to have to be the new iPod touch I think!
> Thanks so much for all your help.
> My C5 has been sent now,can't wait to try it out!



 
 That "lightning" connector is used by the iPhone 5, the iPod Touch (5th generation), the iPod Nano (7th generation), the iPad (4th generation), and the iPad Mini.


----------



## luisdent

bb 808 said:


> That "lightning" connector is used by the iPhone 5, the iPod Touch (5th generation), the iPod Nano (7th generation), the iPad (4th generation), and the iPad Mini.


Yes, it's either that awkward cable or the awkward connector...


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote: 





nukeshock said:


> trust me when i say this...when the bass boost switch on the X02 is on... my *Dt880 *literally vibrate on the table...now im looking for a more compact amp and something that looks nicer hahahaha the C5 seems to pass the mark. the red one looks oh so good and it seems perfect , im going to check with my local etailer if i can demo one of his units and i can compare them =)


 
  Hi there,
   
  This interests me because I have the Beyedynamics DT 880 (*250 Ohm*) and
  am using them with the JDS Labs *O2 *& *ODAC* (as two separates). - I'm extremely happy with _all _of them.
  Are there any interesting comments from the *DT 880 *& *C5* owners?


----------



## amoeba1126

Has anyone tried this with a LCD-2 yet?


----------



## d marc0

My C5 will be arriving today!


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





amoeba1126 said:


> Has anyone tried this with a LCD-2 yet?


 
   
  See release article. LCD-2's need at least 500mW for best results. C5 is built for more efficient headphones, and not planars.
   
  No portable amp I'm aware of can even run for more than 3 hours when driving that much power. It's too much current for a portable amp. You'd need a massive battery to make it possible. O2 can do it. But again, run time will be unimpressive.


----------



## d marc0

It's here!

Will be testing with T-PEOS H-200 today...


----------



## Craigster75

Quote: 





amoeba1126 said:


> Has anyone tried this with a LCD-2 yet?


 
   
  Quote: 





jseaber said:


> See release article. LCD-2's need at least 500mW for best results. C5 is built for more efficient headphones, and not planars.
> 
> No portable amp I'm aware of can even run for more than 3 hours when driving that much power. It's too much current for a portable amp. You'd need a massive battery to make it possible. O2 can do it. But again, run time will be unimpressive.


 

 Maybe a Centrance M8 for planars?


----------



## musicbased

Got my C5 today, and it's amazing!
   
  I really love the bass boost. I probably wouldn't have it on all the time i don't think, but for drum n bass and trance/edm it's a great option to have (seeing as thats mainly what i listen to!).
  I'm also using 'equalizer' on the ipod touch for eq as it supports gapless playback. i'm using the er4s with a sub bass boost similar to the one described by Luisdent. That sub bass boost, with the added bass boost on the c5 is pretty intense!
   
  Mainly just wanted to say thank you to Luisdent for your help with this set up, i'm really enjoying it!-Just need to get some red filters......


----------



## SkyBleu

I just received my C5 today after purchasing from my local Noisy Motel store. Received this thing within 48 hours, so very pleased to try this C5 after deciding to buy it!
   
  I shall have a novice review for it soon


----------



## d marc0

Got mine from NoisyMotel too! Excellent service...


----------



## luisdent

musicbased said:


> Got my C5 today, and it's amazing!
> 
> I really love the bass boost. I probably wouldn't have it on all the time i don't think, but for drum n bass and trance/edm it's a great option to have (seeing as thats mainly what i listen to!).
> I'm also using 'equalizer' on the ipod touch for eq as it supports gapless playback. i'm using the er4s with a sub bass boost similar to the one described by Luisdent. That sub bass boost, with the added bass boost on the c5 is pretty intense!
> ...


----------



## SkyBleu

Finished my review on the C5! 
  More or less, my first review lol so it'll probably not be as good as it should be.
   
  All I can say is, I tried.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/673946/review-unboxing-jds-labs-c5-the-definition-of-neutrality


----------



## d marc0

Quote: 





skybleu said:


> Finished my review on the C5!
> More or less, my first review lol so it'll probably not be as good as it should be.
> 
> All I can say is, I tried.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/673946/review-unboxing-jds-labs-c5-the-definition-of-neutrality


 
   
  Great write up mate! Your description is spot-on to what I've experience with the C5.
  I didn't have that lack of layering tho... probably because I'm using the H200 as my main IEM for the setup.


----------



## SkyBleu

d marc0 said:


> Great write up mate! Your description is spot-on to what I've experience with the C5.
> I didn't have that lack of layering tho... probably because I'm using the H200 as my main IEM for the setup.




Haha, thanks again!

Yeah, I, too, have the H-200's, just have yet to try it with the C5 as I am enjoying the M-100's too much

Will let you know what I think of the H-200's and the instrumental separation when I use them.


----------



## d marc0

Quote: 





skybleu said:


> Haha, thanks again!
> 
> Yeah, I, too, have the H-200's, just have yet to try it with the C5 as I am enjoying the M-100's too much
> 
> Will let you know what I think of the H-200's and the instrumental separation when I use them.


 
   
  Please do...
  All I can say is I've never enjoyed music this much since I got the H200 + C5 + iPod Touch 5th gen combo.


----------



## SkyBleu

d marc0 said:


> Please do...
> All I can say is I've never enjoyed music this much since I got the H200 + C5 + iPod Touch 5th gen combo.




Of course.

It is a great feeling when you find a rig that does so much goodness!


----------



## ostewart

Just got H-200, will have to try them with the C5 at some point


----------



## d marc0

Quote: 





skybleu said:


> Of course.
> 
> It is a great feeling when you find a rig that does so much goodness!


 
   
  I know... I guess it'll be a while before I take another leap of faith on an upgrade.
  BTW, did you notice the significant increase in soundstage height? I did notice that there aint much improvement in the width tho.


----------



## SkyBleu

Quote: 





d marc0 said:


> I know... I guess it'll be a while before I take another leap of faith on an upgrade.
> BTW, did you notice the significant increase in soundstage height? I did notice that there aint much improvement in the width tho.


 
  Hmm, I have yet to discover the height of the soundstage in that sense, but I surely know for a fact that the width of the soundstage is not very wide at all.


----------



## BB 808

skybleu said:


> Finished my review on the C5!
> More or less, my first review lol so it'll probably not be as good as it should be.
> 
> All I can say is, I tried.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/673946/review-unboxing-jds-labs-c5-the-definition-of-neutrality




Thanks for the thoughtful and informative review. I love my C5.


----------



## SkyBleu

bb 808 said:


> Thanks for the thoughtful and informative review. I love my C5.




It was my pleasure

I am really enjoying my C5 too. Great amp.


----------



## musicbased

Nice review, well done!
   
  It reminded me that i had totally forgotten about the gain switch.
  Does higher gain sound better on some iems?-I have er4s, i tried to compare the gain settings but it's difficult because of the whole louder sounds better thing.
   
  Anyone with ER4s out there?-What setting do you find sounds best?-Or is it just simply louder and doesn't make any difference?


----------



## SkyBleu

musicbased said:


> Nice review, well done!
> 
> It reminded me that i had totally forgotten about the gain switch.
> Does higher gain sound better on some iems?-I have er4s, i tried to compare the gain settings but it's difficult because of the whole louder sounds better thing.
> ...




Ah, yes, thank you.

The ER4S are quite the power hungry IEMs at the requirement of 100ohms, so I'd assume they would work much better on high gain, but don't quote me on that.

Unfortunately, I do not own a pair to test it out for you, but I would suggest using the high gain function for it to get the best out of it.


----------



## BB 808

musicbased said:


> Nice review, well done!
> 
> It reminded me that i had totally forgotten about the gain switch.
> Does higher gain sound better on some iems?-I have er4s, i tried to compare the gain settings but it's difficult because of the whole louder sounds better thing.
> ...




Listening to my ER4S with high gain, the bass has more impact and texture. The mids are slightly recessed and if there's a lot of layers can sound congested. With low gain - the treble, separation and soundstage is better.


----------



## melro

Where is the high-low gain switch? My C5 only have bass boost on-off.


----------



## miceblue

melro said:


> Where is the high-low gain switch? My C5 only have bass boost on-off.




It's actually part of the potentiometer. You just push it into the C5 to toggle the gain. It's pretty neat.


----------



## melro

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> It's actually part of the potentiometer. You just push it into the C5 to toggle the gain. It's pretty neat.


 
  Thanks, miceblue


----------



## mld218

Can anyone tell me how this would pair with my AK100?
   
  Thanks
  Mike


----------



## imackler

Anyone trying to amp any version of the Q701/K701/K702/Annie with this? I find I use a headphone at home so much more if I don't need to be tethered to a desk top amp.


----------



## akhyar

mld218 said:


> Can anyone tell me how this would pair with my AK100?
> 
> Thanks
> Mike



It pairs very well with the AK100 as the C5 is very neutral and doesn't add or coloured the sound sig of AK100.
I used to own both and need the C5 to properly drive FitEar TG!334 due to AK's 22 Ohm OI. Sometimes I also plugged in Senn Momentum and the sound is pure bliss.
The only reason I sold both of them is I don't want to use any amp to properly drive my TG!334, so it's the design fault of the AK and not the C5.
Sizewise, with the AK leather case, the width is almost the same, only the C5 is much taller.


----------



## Guizan

Quote: 





imackler said:


> Anyone trying to amp any version of the Q701/K701/K702/Annie with this? I find I use a headphone at home so much more if I don't need to be tethered to a desk top amp.


 
   
  I agree. I came here to ask the exact same question... anyone?


----------



## rckyosho

Quote: 





guizan said:


> I agree. I came here to ask the exact same question... anyone?


 
  Not too sure what you guys are asking, but if you mean will the C5 be able to drive  the K701 then yes it can drive it no problem and if low gain is not enough for you there's always the high gain setting.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





guizan said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Quote: 





imackler said:


> Anyone trying to amp any version of the Q701/K701/K702/Annie with this? I find I use a headphone at home so much more if I don't need to be tethered to a desk top amp.


 
  I use the K 701 with the C5. It's a tad bit more analytical-sounding compared to the O2, but I like how it makes the imaging a bit more centered since I find the K 701's soundstage with the O2 to be kind of off: very 1D and the center imaging is a bit less pronounced.
   
  Movies + K 701 + C5 + bass boost = awesome.


----------



## SkyBleu

Hey guys, you know how the C5 blinks to tell us its dying?

After how long of that blinking light will it commit suicide?


----------



## akhyar

From my previous set, I was getting around 30mins to 1 hour before the battery gone kaput


----------



## SkyBleu

akhyar said:


> From my previous set, I was getting around 30mins to 1 hour before the battery gone kaput




Oh, awesome.

I was hoping for an extra thirty minutes or so, so I can go for the last few songs, haha.


----------



## baydude

How do you know if your C5 is fully charged?


----------



## SkyBleu

baydude said:


> How do you know if your C5 is fully charged?




The charging light turns off.


----------



## miceblue

skybleu said:


> akhyar said:
> 
> 
> > From my previous set, I was getting around 30mins to 1 hour before the battery gone kaput
> ...




You can re-program when the battery light turns on I believe.


----------



## SkyBleu

miceblue said:


> You can re-program when the battery light turns on I believe.




Too much effort! Lol


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Is it possible to make the volume have more steps or be smoother?


 
   
  As of today, volume control resolution is 200-400% finer:
https://github.com/jdslabs/C5_Firmware
   
  Original firmware (v1.0.x) changed volume once every 55ms while pressing the volume control. So, holding the control for more than 1/20th of a second resulted in moving at least *2* volume steps. We noticed a few requests here for "more steps", and it took a while to realize that you guys weren't asking for more steps, but for _better control_ of the large number of steps C5 already has. It turns out that the average finger motion results in a volume step change of 3-4dB; this motion should have changed volume by only 1dB. And thus, some of you thought C5 had too few steps. You really needed faster fingers, or better firmware.
   
  Today's firmware release (v1.1.0) replaces C5's volume control logic. The amp now changes volume by exactly 1dB for every volume control touch shorter than 0.375 seconds. If you hold the volume control longer, it increases or decreases volume by 1dB every 55 milliseconds. Much easier.


----------



## SkyBleu

jseaber said:


> As of today, volume control resolution is 200-400% finer:
> https://github.com/jdslabs/C5_Firmware
> 
> 
> ...




Hey, this may be a novice question, but how would i install this new firmware?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





skybleu said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Well, you can buy an AVR programmer, solder 3x2 header pins to the C5's PCB, and install it via Arduino.


----------



## SkyBleu

miceblue said:


> Well, you can buy an AVR programmer, solder 3x2 header pins to the C5's PCB, and install it via Arduino.




Well! Looks like I'll be skipping this update!


----------



## ThurstonX

miceblue said:


> Well, you can buy an AVR programmer, solder 3x2 header pins to the C5's PCB, and install it via Arduino.


 

    
  Quote:


skybleu said:


> Well! Looks like I'll be skipping this update!


 
   
  Maybe JDS Labs will offer a Return-It-For-Upgrade service... for a nominal fee, of course


----------



## imackler

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Well, you can buy an AVR programmer, solder 3x2 header pins to the C5's PCB, and install it via Arduino.


 
  No way! Is that the only way?!


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





imackler said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Straight from the blog entry:
  http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=464
  Quote: 





> In pursuit of retiring analog potentiometers in DIY HiFi, we’re releasing C5′s firmware under the CC BY-SA 3.0 license. Note that a 6-pin header and ISP programmer are required to write to C5.


 
   
   
  Ah this is some interesting firmware code. 
  I might actually like this more than my current "slow volume change" mode which changes volume 1 step every 110 ms instead of the default 55.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Straight from the blog entry:
> http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=464
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  We can perform the update for the cost of shipping ($3.30 in USA, $12 international). Simply ship to the address on our contact page and include your *original order number *on the box.
   
 For those who prefer the DIY route:  Soldering can be avoided by attaching a pogo pin adapter to an ISP programmer. I believe miceblue posted a tutorial in the reviews section. We can post a guide if there's interest.


----------



## chengsta

lol it's been a long time since I've heard about Arduino.  It brings back memories of my electronics classes.  Is that thing still alive?


----------



## ThurstonX

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> We can perform the update for the cost of shipping ($3.30 in USA, $12 international). Simply ship to the address on our contact page and include your *original order number *on the box.
> 
> For those who prefer the DIY route:  Soldering can be avoided by attaching a pogo pin adapter to an ISP programmer. I believe miceblue posted a tutorial in the reviews section. We can post a guide if there's interest.


 
   
  Thanks, Jon.  That's very reasonable.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





thurstonx said:


> Thanks, Jon.  That's very reasonable.


 
  Indeed, I've always enjoyed dealing with JDS Labs. Always great prices on their part
   
  Question Answered in under 4 hours, wonderful Customer Service from JDS Labs as always
   
  So I'm wondering... wheather I want this or the Fiio E12, the LME 4xxx op amps in the E12 capture my attention, seeing as I prefer the LME 4x series over any Op 2x I've heard, I use and Lme 49990 in my Matrix M Stage [which was a  Op 2134, and I belive the op 2227 was in the cMoy bb wasn't it] Ethier way I enjoyed the OP 2x with lean cans, but hated them with Darker Warmer cans, the Lme However has proven to be very nice with both sets
   
  Non the less, I'm soon to purchase [hopefully] a Fiio X3 and a pair of Fostex T50 Modded Mad Dogs, I had the Mad Dogs b4 and sadly out of my E11 and my cMoy [Sourced from my Hm 601] they where horribly warm [proably the Hm 601's fault tbh] Non the less even at home with my Odac, the mad dogs where just to warm. Out of the oDac cMoy chain and my Stock M Stage at the time
   
  So I'm once again going to revist the mad dogs, and I'm looking for a Brighter Airy Amp, as opposed to the warmer ones I've had in the past. I Jds Labs, the make a top notch product. But I'm wondering if it's as detailed and clean as the E12 [it seems the bass boost is better 6.0 at 80 compared to 4.2 at 100]
   
  Any thoughts you guys <3 [seeing as the e12 is cheaper, I'd most likely buy it new, and get the C5 used]


----------



## miceblue

C5 is definitely more airy, detailed, and transparent next to the E12. E12 sounds congested but deep, warm mids but bright, and I find the bass boost to intrude into the mids more so than that of the C5. The E12 has more of a punchy bass boost whereas the C5 is deep and chest-punching


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> C5 is definitely more airy, detailed, and transparent next to the E12. E12 sounds congested but deep, warm mids but bright, and I find the bass boost to intrude into the mids more so than that of the C5. The E12 has more of a punchy bass boost whereas the C5 is deep and chest-punching


 
  Yea that's the feeling I get from looking at the different Bass Boosts, still though OP2227 <.<
   
  Still it's JDS labs, If I had an issue I know they'd help me faster and better than Fiio ever would, 
   
  I'll proably lean towards the JDS as well, seeing as it's also smaller than the E12 [I think so anyways looking at the dimesions]


----------



## miceblue

Yeah the E12 is larger and heavier than an iPhone 4S. I don't carry it around in my pocket because it's too big for me. I also ride on the bus to get to places and I've found that the E12 picks up quite a bit of RFI noise...and it gets excruciatingly loud in dead-zones; I have to unplug everything and take the headphones off my head until I pass the dead-zone.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Yeah the E12 is larger and heavier than an iPhone 4S. I don't carry it around in my pocket because it's too big for me. I also ride on the bus to get to places and I've found that the E12 picks up quite a bit of RFI noise...and it gets excruciatingly loud in dead-zones; I have to unplug everything and take the headphones off my head until I pass the dead-zone.


 
  So I've ditched the Mad Dogs once again, I keep hearing how dark they are and I don't want to go back to that [although those Alpha Pads where the sexiest I'd ever worn]
   
  How well would the C5 do with a K550 sourced LINE out from a Hifiman Hm 601... I want as close to neutral I can get, with a Bass boost when I need it. and ofc I want that bass to stay tight.
   
  I will say that me old E11 +the Hm 601 was suprsingly Tight on my Dt 990s :O I was impressed at how TIGHT the bass was on the Hm 601 [imo with limited DAP experince] and I liked the dt 880 with my cMoy and my Hifiman, which leads me to belive that the C5 and Hifiman should work even better for a K550 [assuming the k550 has a simmlar neutral sound like the dt 880]
   
  Just wondering if I want, the Sub or Mid bass boost... the cMoy did poorly with the Dt 990, where as the E11 did wonderfully... so how will the C5 do with both cans I wonder. Well how does a C5 do with keeping an un bass boosted k550 neutral, and for those who own the C5. How well does it do with boosting bass heavy cans like the Dt 990 [which... really enjoys a Mid bass boost around 100hrz,] although it't not bad with an 80hrz boost... 
   
  Still any one listen to this amp for a neutral can, and a bass heavy one xD [If I'm going to buy the more expensive C5 wanna make sure it will work with both portable cans]


----------



## ThurstonX

Has anyone paired the C5 with the AKG K240 MKII? I'm intrigued by these (looking for semi-open), but the C5 is the unchangeable variable in the equation.
   
  Cheers.





   
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   
  Well, in a few days I'll be posting a review of how the C5 pairs with the AKG Q701s


----------



## Phredd

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> I posted my impressions in the FiiO E12 thread, but I definitely think the C5 is worth the price difference.
> 
> Comparisons to C5:
> In short, I'd say the C5 is worth the price difference between the E12 ($60 USD).
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the review. I realize this is an old post, but I'm just now comparing the E12 with the C5. I'm leaning toward the C5. You give a lot of complements, but your comment that the C5 is "more fatiguing" has me worried. Would you please elaborate or did you mean "less" fatiguing than the E12?


----------



## chengsta

You know, i never understood the whole 'fatigue' thing.  I love treble as much as I do bass.  I never get 'fatigued' from hearing high highs.  None of my friends do either, they're like 'fatigue? get outta town!'  If I am fatigued from an amp, I wouldn't know it.


----------



## Phredd

Quote: 





chengsta said:


> You know, i never understood the whole 'fatigue' thing.  I love treble as much as I do bass.  I never get 'fatigued' from hearing high highs.  None of my friends do either, they're like 'fatigue? get outta town!'  If I am fatigued from an amp, I wouldn't know it.


 
   
  It may be a personal issue. I can imagine if you enjoy listening, _except_ that the highs are a little harsh, I can understand fatigue. It just doesn't seem to mesh with everything else positive that's said about the C5. Admittedly I didn't read through this entire thread (it took months to write, it would take months to read...) but I don't think anyone described it as harsh. I wonder if miceblue may have meant to refer to the E12 as fatiguing.


----------



## imackler

Imo, neither are fatiguing amps! The E12 is a darker amp w/ less treble than the C5 but the C5 is really smooth and neutral. The C5 does have more detail than the E12, but I don't think its presented in an unpleasant, demanding way. Personally, I'd be more likely to get tired of the laid back richness of the E12 than the neutral C5.


----------



## luisdent

I would say I'm fatigued by harsh treble pretty easily, but then again, flat even treble, even when boosted doesn't bother me.  It's more about how high peaks are in certain treble areas.  You may not notice the peak being too loud as the overall sound isn't loud, but then over time it gets irritating to your brain and ears.
   
  As for the C5, I find it the opposite of fatiguing.  In fact, most devices I use would probably be described as fatiguing in comparison.  Even the really high quality devices.  Not that they are literally fatiguing, but when using the C5, the sound is "opened up" a bit and it makes things easier to listen to for me personally.
   
  I think what is more likely for most people is that the low impedance and reference flat frequency response is revealing the actual sonic signature of their phones.  Instead of having a "warm" (recessed treble) upper end and slightly boosted bass, the whole spectrum is instead ruler flat.  So the treble in comparison to their non-flat amp would seem higher and the bass lower.  That would easily result in a fatiguing sound on a lot of earphones that aren't flat to begin with. :-o


----------



## miceblue

In comparison to the O2, I find the C5's treble a little more present, maybe because of the more closed-in soundstage, so to me I can't listen to the C5 as long as the O2.
   
  The E12's treble is a little less fatiguing in this sense compared to the C5 as it has the house FiiO sound of warm mids and an easy treble. On the other hand the E12's upper-midrange is bright to my ears compared to both the O2 and the C5.


----------



## Phredd

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> The E12's treble is a little less fatiguing in this sense compared to the C5 as it has the house FiiO sound of warm mids and an easy treble. On the other hand the E12's upper-midrange is bright to my ears compared to both the O2 and the C5.


 
   
  Thanks for explaining that. Maybe luisdent has a point that it could be more noticeable with a flat amp if people with flat headphones are used to a "warm" amp. (if I paraphrased correctly)
   
  I'll find out soon enough. I called JDS Labs for the first time and I was very impressed with how friendly and helpful John was. He offered to accommodate me with two customizations, so with that and what I've read, plus my three bugs* for the E12, I placed an order and it SHIPPED THE SAME DAY! I still have to like the sound, but at this point I'm leaning _heavily_ toward the C5 backed by a very responsive and "local" company.
   
  *must turn volume to power off, bass boost is too much for me, crossfeed is too much for me to be useful


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





phredd said:


> Thanks for explaining that. Maybe luisdent has a point that it could be more noticeable with a flat amp if people with flat headphones are used to a "warm" amp. (if I paraphrased correctly)
> 
> I'll find out soon enough. I called JDS Labs for the first time and I was very impressed with how friendly and helpful John was. He offered to accommodate me with two customizations, so with that and what I've read, plus my three bugs* for the E12, I placed an order and it SHIPPED THE SAME DAY! I still have to like the sound, but at this point I'm leaning _heavily_ toward the C5 backed by a very responsive and "local" company.
> 
> *must turn volume to power off, bass boost is too much for me, crossfeed is too much for me to be useful


 
   
  JDS Labs is awesome.  Period.  I wouldn't hesitate to buy something from them.  In fact, I'd be hard pressed to go anywhere else for an amp.


----------



## ostewart

The O2 and C5 are the only amps I've kept, I sell all the rest as they never come close. The C421 I only sold after getting the C5.


----------



## audionewbi

you know what I regret selling this alot, now that I heard it a second time I think I need to order one again.


----------



## SkyBleu

Does anyone here run a DAC with the C5?

Something like the CLAS or the HP-P1, or the Venturecraft line?


----------



## mtthefirst

Quote: 





skybleu said:


> Does anyone here run a DAC with the C5?
> 
> Something like the CLAS or the HP-P1, or the Venturecraft line?


 
  I sometime pair it with my DD Socket 1.


----------



## SkyBleu

mtthefirst said:


> I sometime pair it with my DD Socket 1.




And how do you find that to sound? Would you say it was a worthy improvement?


----------



## mtthefirst

Quote: 





skybleu said:


> And how do you find that to sound? Would you say it was a worthy improvement?


 
  I owned all of VentureCraft products (Go-Dap X, DD Socket 1, DD Socket 1 LE, Go-Dap TT, and SounDroid Typhoon). I would say that C5 give me clearer and more neutral sound than listening straight from Go-Dap or Typhoon. Compare to ALO The National or Rx Mk3B, C5 isn't quite there yet but, if you consider the price, I would consider C5 worthy.


----------



## SkyBleu

mtthefirst said:


> I owned all of VentureCraft products (Go-Dap X, DD Socket 1, DD Socket 1 LE, Go-Dap TT, and SounDroid Typhoon). I would say that C5 give me clearer and more neutral sound than listening straight from Go-Dap or Typhoon. Compare to ALO The National or Rx Mk3B, C5 isn't quite there yet but, if you consider the price, I would consider C5 worthy.




Was when the C5 paired with the DD Socket, sound better than the C5 without a DAC?


----------



## mtthefirst

Quote: 





skybleu said:


> Was when the C5 paired with the DD Socket, sound better than the C5 without a DAC?


 
  Actually, I never try connect it directly to the ipod touch. Will try later and give you a comment later.


----------



## SkyBleu

mtthefirst said:


> Actually, I never try connect it directly to the ipod touch. Will try later and give you a comment later.




That'd be great! Thanks.


----------



## mtthefirst

Quote: 





skybleu said:


> That'd be great! Thanks.


 
   
  After comparing between iphone 4s > C5 and iphone 4s > Socket 1 > C5, I can say that going through Socket 1 give a lot clearer and cleaner sound. I think that's a benefit from superior of external DAC.


----------



## SkyBleu

mtthefirst said:


> After comparing between iphone 4s > C5 and iphone 4s > Socket 1 > C5, I can say that going through Socket 1 give a lot clearer and cleaner sound. I think that's a benefit from superior of external DAC.




Ah, cheers for putting in the effort to do the comparison for me! 

Very good to hear might have to consider a DAC now


----------



## mtthefirst

Quote: 





skybleu said:


> Ah, cheers for putting in the effort to do the comparison for me!
> 
> Very good to hear might have to consider a DAC now


 
  If you still depend on iDevices, I suggest you try Socket 1.


----------



## jamesfleming

I have a c5 and I'm loving it with my beyer dt770AE phones. However, I'm considering getting a pair of Hifiman he-400s. Will the c5 be powerful enough to power the 400s?


----------



## luisdent

I wanted to chime in here and report a bit after a billion hours (exaggeration) of using my C5.  First, so far it has improved everything I've connect to it at least to some degree.  It works extremely well with most phones I've tried with it, however, I've started noticing a bit of a lack of power for some music when using my er4s which are 100ohm.
   
  I use it in high gain mode, and I can give it the full volume of my source players (zip clip, fuze v2, ipod touch, ipod class, apogee duet, etc.) It doesn't seem to matter which device I give it, I've been finding a lot of quieter music lately requires the max output on high gain to get an "almost" good volume.  This isn't all the time, but there are definitely songs such as a lot of soundtrack music with quiet soft orchestration or piano.
   
  I'm having a hard time writing this, because I don't want to say anything negative about it! haha.  But I wish it had just a little more power.  It is a very silent amp, however, I don't recommend running it past, say, 90% volume for two reasons.  First, there is noise with the amp itself. I've tested with a perfectly silent file as well as simply full volume disconnected.  This only shows at the highest volumes, which would probably make you deaf with most IEMs.  However, with something like the er4s you will get audible noise when listening to already quiet soundtrack music at max volume.  Second, the volume control starts to make a much more noticeable and annoying sound when you press it as you get close to max volume.
   
  I'm only saying this for those who might listen to a lot of music like me and might find it isn't really powerful enough for something not as sensitive like the er4s.  I wish it had another 10-20% power output and it would be great for the er4s, because it's such a reference grade amp in sound quality.  Anyhow...  Still an amazing amp for the price/size, and I recommend it over most other amps if raw power isn't the only concern.  It's still very powerful and handles most iems, including the er4s in "most" situations with ease....


----------



## miceblue

I'm not sure what your volume settings are but:

Sansa Clip Zip (Rockbox 0 dB volume and/or stock firmware, high volume setting, maximum volume)
FiiO L2
C5 (low-gain, volume 25 steps after mute, or 26/63)
AKG K 701 (which is one of the more inefficient dynamic headphones out there)

I'm using a self-recorded binaural recording, which is quite quiet to being with, and it sounds plenty loud to me.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2816447/2013-07-12_-_Binaural_Access_Badge.wav (~27 MB)
^ that's the raw, unaltered audio recording (this is just a sample of the longer recording to keep the file size small-ish)


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> I'm not sure what your volume settings are but:
> 
> Sansa Clip Zip (Rockbox 0 dB volume and/or stock firmware, high volume setting, maximum volume)
> FiiO L2
> ...


 
   
  Yeah, I have quieter songs than that.  The problem is also that even though it's loud enough on some quiet songs, the song pushes it to the limit where this is a bit of noise and loud volume change noises.  But in fairness, this is probably about 4% of my music.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Yeah, I have quieter songs than that.  The problem is also that even though it's loud enough on some quiet songs, the song pushes it to the limit where this is a bit of noise and loud volume change noises.  But in fairness, this is probably about 4% of my music.


 
   
  If your music is so quiet that you must turn the volume near max, then the recording itself is responsible for generating background noise and that should be present with any amp. C5's volume control features zero-crossing detection, which basically eliminates switching noise _as long as_ there's an active audio signal. If the music is exceptionally quiet, it's challenging for zero-crossing detection to work, and thus, you may hear a slight click during large volume transitions at high volumes. So the "4%" of music figure you quite sound accurate. Personally, I've never run into these issues. Volume is always below 70% for my personal library and various headphones.


----------



## luisdent

jseaber said:


> If your music is so quiet that you must turn the volume near max, then the recording itself is responsible for generating background noise and that should be present with any amp. C5's volume control features zero-crossing detection, which basically eliminates switching noise _as long as_ there's an active audio signal. If the music is exceptionally quiet, it's challenging for zero-crossing detection to work, and thus, you may hear a slight click during large volume transitions at high volumes. So the "4%" of music figure you quite sound accurate. Personally, I've never run into these issues. Volume is always below 70% for my personal library and various headphones.


It is almost all of the time for me too. But it's not switching noises or anything i'm hearing. I put a digitally silent audio file i made on my ipod and sansa and mac with interface. Played the silent file at the same volume i listen to a really quiet song at and there is clealy audible noise. But again, at or near max volume. I'm not saying it's common. It's not. But there are some classical songs and soundtrack music that pushes the c5 to it's limit. That's all. Plus with any player, if you use any eq, you need to cut the gain via eq app to prevent clipping. This makes it worse. But i would bet most people never even hear it. Just saying... I have music on cds that is quiet enough for me to max the c5 and have it no be loud. At this volume using the volume knob gets loud too.

If the c5 switches when no audio is detected then mine is broken  my digitally silenced file plays continuous noise at or near max volume. If i understood you correctly...


----------



## Phredd

[size=medium] I now have my C5. It's a stunning piece of equipment. The finish is superb and I love the contrast with red and black. I took a photo, but I don't think it does it justice as to how the color and sheen show in the light.   
  It sounds excellent. I love the bass boost with some of my music. I had mine set to a 3db boost which is plenty. I also appreciate the fine volume control and that I don't need to reset it each time I turn it on.
   
  I just don't know if I can appreciate the sound quality improvement over the direct output from my iPhone 5. I haven't yet spent hours listening to the same music with and without the C5. So far, I've compared a number of uncompressed music files with an A/B selector. I have the line out from the iPod Touch 5 (through Apple's lightning adapter) connected to the C5 on A and the headphone out of the iPhone 5 on B. I set the sound of each to the exact same volume and I start both players at the same time, so when I switch sources, there's no detectable change, except for any differences in sound quality. So far, I don't hear any significant difference. I've tried with both the Sennheiser HD598 headphones and with the Westone 4R earphones. Both are very sensitive and low impedance at 103db/32ohm and 118db/31ohm. Is it possible that for these phones, an amp is just not going to make much of a difference? Has anyone else heard a significant improvement with either of the HD598 or 4R? I'll spend more time listening without switching and see if I enjoy listening more with C5.
   

   
   

   

[/size]


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





phredd said:


> [size=medium] I now have my C5. It's a stunning piece of equipment. The finish is superb and I love the contrast with red and black. I took a photo, but I don't think it does it justice as to how the color and sheen show in the light.
> It sounds excellent. I love the bass boost with some of my music. I had mine set to a 3db boost which is plenty. I also appreciate the fine volume control and that I don't need to reset it each time I turn it on.
> 
> I just don't know if I can appreciate the sound quality improvement over the direct output from my iPhone 5. I haven't yet spent hours listening to the same music with and without the C5. So far, I've compared a number of uncompressed music files with an A/B selector. I have the line out from the iPod Touch 5 (through Apple's lightning adapter) connected to the C5 on A and the headphone out of the iPhone 5 on B. I set the sound of each to the exact same volume and I start both players at the same time, so when I switch sources, there's no detectable change, except for any differences in sound quality. So far, I don't hear any significant difference. I've tried with both the Sennheiser HD598 headphones and with the Westone 4R earphones. Both are very sensitive and low impedance at 103db/32ohm and 118db/31ohm. Is it possible that for these phones, an amp is just not going to make much of a difference? Has anyone else heard a significant improvement with either of the HD598 or 4R? I'll spend more time listening without switching and see if I enjoy listening more with C5.
> ...


 
   
  Significant, no.  But a difference yes.  I'm not sure what music you listen to, but I can give you some song examples that show a clear difference between at least the ipod touch 5g line out and headphone out...


----------



## Phredd

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Significant, no.  But a difference yes.  I'm not sure what music you listen to, but I can give you some song examples that show a clear difference between at least the ipod touch 5g line out and headphone out...


 
   
  That would be be great! I don't yet have all my music imported lossless, but if you can recommend some good songs for comparison, I'll reimport them. I like classical and I listened to two recordings of the last movement of Beethoven's 9th. They were lossless, but old recordings. I love Pink Floyd, Santana, The Who, The Beatles, the Stones, Beethoven, Brahms, Mozart, Yes, Steve Miller, Chicago, Mariah Carey, John Mayer, Jason Mraz just to give you an idea. I have tons more and would even be willing to buy a CD or two. I'd like to be convinced, because I know that even if it's difficult to hear a big difference with A/B testing, a better sound will make long term listening more enjoyable.
   
  Thanks fellow New Hampster!


----------



## luisdent

The first thing that pops in my head, as I was just talking about it, is "the wedding" from deep impact by james horner.  Here's a sample of the part I can easily hear the difference with:
  https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/48137075/06%20The%20Wedding.mp3
   
  After the soft part with the flute the strings come in.  On the 5g touch headphone output the strings have a strange tone.  The C5 makes them sound correct and even.


----------



## miceblue

I'm not sure about the iPhone 5, but I own the previous 4S and the difference is pretty subtle, but noticeable to me. Most of the differences are in the way instruments are separated in my head, with the C5 being much more spacious and instruments are better-defined. The other difference I've noted is that the treble becomes less grainy and more defined, again, compared to the headphone out jack.


----------



## luisdent

The ipod touch 5g specifically has a worse headphone output.  I don't care what anyone or measurement says, there's something odd about the high frequencies or at least the way they're presented.  If you have one and a c5, just listen to that with headphone output and then line out to the c5.  Double amping the headphone output doesn't get rid of it.  The line out sounds like a fuze or clip+ or any other reference grade output.  The 5G headphone out has the issue...  It's not great, but it's more noticeable to me than the classic or ipad or three different nanos.  They are all critically similar,  but the 5G is off somehow.  Listen to the strings that build in that song and they just sound strange from the headphone output.  This might be more noticeable on certain earphones.  I'm using the er4s and pfe112, which neither has any issue with the other devices I mentioned.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> It is almost all of the time for me too. But it's not switching noises or anything i'm hearing. I put a digitally silent audio file i made on my ipod and sansa and mac with interface. Played the silent file at the same volume i listen to a really quiet song at and there is clealy audible noise. But again, at or near max volume. I'm not saying it's common. It's not. But there are some classical songs and soundtrack music that pushes the c5 to it's limit. That's all. Plus with any player, if you use any eq, you need to cut the gain via eq app to prevent clipping. This makes it worse. But i would bet most people never even hear it. Just saying... I have music on cds that is quiet enough for me to max the c5 and have it no be loud. At this volume using the volume knob gets loud too.
> 
> If the c5 switches when no audio is detected then mine is broken  my digitally silenced file plays continuous noise at or near max volume. If i understood you correctly...


 
   
  In this experiment, you're effectively disabling zero crossing detection.
   
  Zero crossing detection can only work when the amp sees an audio signal. The chip waits up to 50ms for the signal to cross the voltage axis (noise * 0 = 0). Playing pure silence means there's never a reasonable voltage transition, so zero crossing doesn't happen. And at max amp volume, you're multiplying the source noise floor by the amplifier's gain. That's not going to be silent with any amp, unless you have an amazingly quiet source. When playing "silence" at max volume, random source voltage fluctuations near V=0 remain unpredictable within the 50ms detection window (Noise * small voltage = noise). Thus, zero crossing has no opportunity within 50ms to make a silent transition. Try listening to music, or a sine wave while changing volumes. C5 will observe the music signal and volume transitions will be clean. Hope this all makes sense. There's a great pictorial explanation somewhere, which I can't seem to dig up...
   
  This theory is only interesting if you listen to nearly silent recordings at near max volume. Such recordings are often close to their own noise floor, so avoiding noise is challenging regardless of the source/amp/headphones.
   
  Alright, enough engineering talk for tonight


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> In this experiment, you're effectively disabling zero crossing detection.
> 
> Zero crossing detection can only work when the amp sees an audio signal. The chip waits up to 50ms for the signal to cross the voltage axis (noise * 0 = 0). Playing pure silence means there's never a reasonable voltage transition, so zero crossing doesn't happen. And at max amp volume, you're multiplying the source noise floor by the amplifier's gain. That's not going to be silent with any amp, unless you have an amazingly quiet source. When playing "silence" at max volume, random source voltage fluctuations near V=0 remain unpredictable within the 50ms detection window (Noise * small voltage = noise). Thus, zero crossing has no opportunity within 50ms to make a silent transition. Try listening to music, or a sine wave while changing volumes. C5 will observe the music signal and volume transitions will be clean. Hope this all makes sense. There's a great pictorial explanation somewhere, which I can't seem to dig up...
> 
> ...


 
   
  No that's good.  Thanks.  But I do hear the volume change noise with music and it gets louder as it gets louder.  That made sense trust me.   So what happens when you have a song with a dead silent passage for two seconds?  Does the amp detect the silence and do something for that part of the song?  Let's say theoretically you had extremely quiet beeps of music with a second or two of dead silence between every beep.  Is the amp not rendering that continuously?  I guess I'm confused?
   
  If you play this sample on the C5 from a portable device like an ipod you should be able to listen at max volume.  
   
  https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/48137075/Claire%20de%20Lune.wav
   
  Keep in mind I'm using the er4s, so you need to have a somewhat demanding earphone.  It shouldn't be too loud.  But you'll notice a lot of noise.  That noise isn't "all" in the song.  I can listen to it on my apogee computer interface louder than that with half the noise.  I realize the song has noise to some degree, but it sounds noisier on the C5 at max and the volume ticks get louder as you turn it up.  I don't expect max volume to be dead silent, but that was the whole reason for my original comment.  For demanding headphones it would be nice for a little more power, that's all.  Not a nock at the c5.  I think it's amazing.   And it more than powerful enough for most earphones/headphones.  So, it's probably a great balance considering it's portable and you want some battery life out of the thing. 
   
  Also, listen to that sample and think that if you use an eq where you need to cut down the pregain a bit it's going to be even quieter than that. :-o


----------



## miceblue

.....what the hay? Such music exists? You can't even analyse the waveform in Audacity is how quiet that track is.

MacBook Pro -> Audirvana Plus (maximum volume) -> ODAC RCA out -> O2 (1.0x gain, maximum volume) -> V-MODA Crossfade M-100 (sensitive headphone) or K 701 (insensitive headphone)

Plenty of noise with this setup.


Clip Zip (maximum volume) -> FiiO L2 -> C5 (low-gain, maximum volume) -> headphone

Sounds pretty much the same to me....


I repeated the above but with the O2's 2.5x gain and the C5's high-gain; I heard pretty much the same thing. A lot of pink noise kind of sound.



Amplifying the track in Audacity with a whopping 56.3 dB amplification, I get the following spectrogram:

That's...a lot of noise in the track.


----------



## luisdent

Quote:  





> I repeated the above but with the O2's 2.5x gain and the C5's high-gain; I heard pretty much the same thing. A lot of pink noise kind of sound.





> Amplifying the track in Audacity with a whopping 56.8 dB amplification, I get the following spectrogram:
> 
> That's...a lot of noise in the track.


 
   
  I know, but I'm pretty sure I'm hearing more.  I'll listen again tomorrow.  I need to sleep!   As I said though, it's pretty rare, but I have some classical and soundtrack stuff that's pretty darn quiet.  I suppose I could use audacity and normalize them....


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> .....what the hay? Such music exists? You can't even analyse the waveform in Audacity is how quiet that track is.
> 
> MacBook Pro -> Audirvana Plus (maximum volume) -> ODAC RCA out -> O2 (1.0x gain, maximum volume) -> V-MODA Crossfade M-100 (sensitive headphone) or K 701 (insensitive headphone)
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Thanks miceblue, that's what I suspected.
   
   


luisdent said:


> No that's good.  Thanks.  But I do hear the volume change noise with music and it gets louder as it gets louder.  That made sense trust me.   So what happens when you have a song with a dead silent passage for two seconds?  Does the amp detect the silence and do something for that part of the song?  Let's say theoretically you had extremely quiet beeps of music with a second or two of dead silence between every beep.  Is the amp not rendering that continuously?  I guess I'm confused?


 
   
  There is no signal rendering, as you might be thinking. The entire audio chain is real-time analog, and volume step changes are activated via digital control. The chip makes a calculated decision as to when it will enact your physical request to make a volume change. Because it's so fast, you perceive the volume change as instant.
   
  There's always a small amount of noise when changing volume. With an analog potentiometer, you can measure and hear rustling from the physical changes at the potentiometer gangs (easier to notice with sensitive headphones at high gain). With digital stepped attenuation, rustling is replaced by a quick transient as gates toggle off at one resistance, and toggle on at another resistance. The transients are small, and when zero crossing detection is employed, they're effectively muted.
   
  When you change volume during a silent passage, zero crossing _normally _doesn't matter because the signal is already close to 0, so the audible result is close enough to desired behavior. Instead of transitioning at exactly 0, volume changes take place near 0. The math works out to about 0.
   
  As miceblue has pointed out, the example music you provided is full of pink noise. By raising volume to max, you're magnifying pink noise to random, non-0 values, and there's no predictable 0 crossing. So you're hearing the small transients multiplied by a gain of 6.5x.
   
*Summary*: If you listen to pink noise at or around max volume, yes, you may hear small noises while changing volume. If you listen to basically any music at any volume (besides pink noise), volume changes will be silent.


----------



## luisdent

I'm still confused. Lease tell me this... If i plug my ipod line out into my c5 and let's just say for volume testing i turn on my denon eq app. I boost some frequencies, and to avoid clipping i lower the overall eq gain...

Now my music is, let's just say for theoretical testing purposes -20db lower than it was. I turn my c5 up to compensate and hit max volume where the music is heard but relaxingly quiet...

Should i hear noise that isn't in the music file? Should i hear medium volume zappy type noises when pressing the volume up or down?


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> I'm still confused. Lease tell me this... If i plug my ipod line out into my c5 and let's just say for volume testing i turn on my denon eq app. I boost some frequencies, and to avoid clipping i lower the overall eq gain...
> 
> Now my music is, let's just say for theoretical testing purposes -20db lower than it was. I turn my c5 up to compensate and hit max volume where the music is heard but relaxingly quiet...
> 
> Should i hear noise that isn't in the music file? Should i hear medium volume zappy type noises when pressing the volume up or down?


 
   
  Yes, I suppose the above theory isn't helping. You're describing atypical listening conditions.
   
  You'll never hear transition noises under normal conditions (strong source level and moderate to low amp volume).


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Yes, I suppose the above theory isn't helping. You're describing atypical listening conditions.
> 
> You'll never hear transition noises under normal conditions (strong source level and moderate to low amp volume).


 
   
  Exactly john!  I never said otherwise!   I didn't say it was a problem.  I just said I wish I had that small bit more power so that those situations wouldn't have noise.  That's all.  But I know it's a balance of battery life, functionality, price, etc.  But just because it's atypical doesn't mean it never happens.   Especially with EQ.  Unfortunately, a lof of earphones including the er4s require EQ to be neutral.  The er4s is already quiet.  Add a low bass boost and you need to compensate with lowering the EQ gain.  Then throw quiet soundtrack music at it and it's not super rare that this happens, but it isn't really "common" either.  But don't get me wrong, I'm not any less happy with the c5 because of those rare situations.  In fact, I practically won't listen to music without it.   But using my apogee duet it's nice to be able to use any EQ setting I want and never worry about lack of power.  But alas, that is a desktop (although small) amp.
   
  For what it's worth, I think you nailed the portable amp with the c5.  No complaints at all.  I was "just sayin'g"


----------



## miceblue

Oh man. I'm using the C5 (low-gain) while riding in a bus and the instrument separation is definitely better than through the iPhone 4S's headphone out. Electric guitars are clear and well-defined, cymbal crashes are detailed and well-defined, the soundstage is noticeably wider and instruments sound more spaced-out in my head. Turn on the bass boost and the deeper sounds of pedal drums become audible over the bus noise.
   
  Just pure awesomeness, hahaha.


----------



## BB 808

Why does the ER4S require EQ to be neutral?  I bought my ER4S years ago because it was the most neutral, flat, and accurate earphones available.  Love the C5 on high gain setting with bass boost on feeding music into my ER4S.  I never had to raise the C5 volume setting more than 50%.


----------



## luisdent

N





bb 808 said:


> Why does the ER4S require EQ to be neutral?  I bought my ER4S years ago because it was the most neutral, flat, and accurate earphones available.  Love the C5 on high gain setting with bass boost on feeding music into my ER4S.  I never had to raise the C5 volume setting more than 50%.


 
Then you don't listen to the same music i do. . and the irony is that i listen to music quieter than most people i know.

First, you're asking why i need eq for the er4s when you are using the bass boost? The bass boost adds a decent amount of bass and affects frequencies beyond the bass. As good as it sounds it is bassier than neutral. Therefore, i eq the low bass only, because the er4s IS the flattest iem around in my opinion, but it still isn't perfect. It drops off around 50hz and lower. I eq those frequencies only a few db higher. However, the 20-30hz range gets even lower, and although it doesn't make a massive difference at that low frequencies, it definitely makes it better and almost perfectly neutral, so i eq those to around +8db. This is backed up by listening as well as graphs.

So with eq i have what i find to be a nearly perfectly flat iem. This us what a lot of audiophiles desire. But that requires at least -8db of eq gain to prevent clipping. Sometimes more. I don't understand why, but even my pro audio eq's clip despite a precut gain of the equivalent boost amount. Perhaps frequencies are handled in an additive way, i'm not sure... Now you have a beautiful sounding earphone that is quiet to begin with and now at least -8db quieter.

I've compared my er4s to fitear, shure, pfe, sony, tdk, westone, etc. and it is the quietest jem i've heard so far, by a decent amount usually. In fact most require at least 10-15 db less volume to sound the same. Therefore if you are using a different iem with no eq, you are using at least 10db less volume and 8db less gain from eq. That's 18db difference. Add to that the fact that the type of music most people listen to is modern highly compressed (dynamically), poorly mastered music and you could easily be talking about another 10-20db less volume needed.

That's 28-38db.

So whether one person hears it or not, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.


----------



## BB 808

Thanks luisdent for the reply.  The ER4S was my first big money purchase.  I got it based on reviews in Stereophile and The Absolute Sound magazines.  I fancied myself an audiophile so I got the ER4S.  I never EQ'd because according to those audiophile magazines, it was a no-no because you are altering what the artists intended.  The ER4S detail retrieval was awesome but the bass was so weak.  When I got the Shure SE530, I was amazed by the improved mids and bass over the ER4S.  Then the JDS Labs C5 came along and I enjoyed my SE530 and ER4S even more with that bass boost feature.  Now I want to try some basshead stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Lessons learned:  1) I must not be a true audiophile because I want a U shape sound vs. flat.  2) I listen to ALL kinds of music played in shuffle mode on my iPod and I'm too lazy to play around with EQ.  3) The JDS Labs C5 is the best money spent in my portable audio setup.


----------



## luisdent

The c5 is the best money i've spent on any amplifier type device. The cost vs quality ratio is extremely good.

Just because you don't like a perfeclfy flat response doesn't mean you're not an audiophile. There are high quality and low quality earphones of all different response shapes. And while flat is usually considered to be more "accurate", that doesn't mean It's better. It's a matter of preference.

Ipod eq sucks. Period. There's no real customization. The touch has better eq apps available though. If someone says the er4s is perfect they're wrong. It is the flattest thing out there in my opinion, but it still lacks low bass. This lack of sub bass can give the impression that they're not bassy, although they have excellent bass overall. But even by graphing standards they are low in the sub bass region. Some graphing standards suggest a +6 boost to low bass as a means of making it sound more natural. Whether that's the case or not, the er4s is lower than any graphing standard's perfect reference bass level. But overall it is very linear from bottom to top. Once eq is applied it is practically perfectly flat. So you aren't hearing what the artist intended if you use the er4s with no eq. Heck, the artist probably never intended you to even hear their music in headphones at all. They mix and master on speakers 9/10 times. But bringing any earphone closer to a studio monitor speaker means bringing it closer to a flat frequency response. Those magazines were giving opinions, not facts. So you're view of the bass wasn't wrong. I don't know "how" much bass you prefer, but there were low to some degree.

I haven't heard the 530, but the shure 535 is very flat up to the treble. It's almost the exact opposite of the er4s. Perfectly flat up to the rolling off treble. The er4s is perfectly flat down the the rolling off bass. Not that either are "perfectly" flat, but very linear and smooth responses. Anyhow, there are other differences that come into play besides frequency response too. Luckily the C5 _is_ "perfectly" flat.  So whatever earphone you use will be rendered at its best.


----------



## musicbased

"Then you don't listen to the same music i do. . and the irony is that i listen to music quieter than most people i know."

Luisdent,if you dont mind,would you be able to give an example of a track that you find particularly problematic?
I would like to download it and see.
I'm asking because I make a fair bit of quiet ambient music on logic,and that can be pretty quiet in the early mixing stage,butI still can't imagine having to max out the volume on the c5!
It would be great to hear what you are listening to for comparison..


----------



## BB 808

luisdent thanks for your help.  I would like to try EQ with my ER4S.  What app are you using and what are the settings?


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





bb 808 said:


> luisdent thanks for your help.  I would like to try EQ with my ER4S.  What app are you using and what are the settings?


 
   
  I'm currently using a clip zip and fuze, so I use the rockbox EQ settings for those.  If you want an ipod app, I was using accudio at first, but switched to denon eq.  My early denon eq settings are in the er4s thread:
   
post #1967
   
  I've been tinkering with different settings and frequency graph comparisons.  Pretty much every graph shows a drop in sub bass around 50hz and lower:
   
9c2102168653320daa17f21df2c0764a.png
   
  http://www.headphone.com/buildAGraph.php?graphType=0&graphID%5B%5D=743 (this graph looks like it was made with the glider tips... yuck.  look at the goldenears with the glider tip:
8b2cfe57aa0bdb8810e566a9ccf115f6.png the treble is more erratic like the headroom graph.  I don't hear this with the triple flange.  But they don't say what they used as far as I can tell.  Anyway...)
   
  Elsewhere they're not perfect either... however, with the red knowles filters in place the hump around 2-3khz is flattened out.  You can eq the 7-7.5khz are up just a bit, say 1.5-2db, to make the treble more flat up to the range where it becomes harder for most people to hear.  Basically, the eq I've settled on based on a lot of listening and graph comparisons is a few db of boost in the 50hz and a few more at 20 and 30hz.  Then a very small 7.5khz boost for air and flattening the treble.  Again, using red filters.  I I used stock green filters, I would eq the 2.5khz or so area down a few db as well.  Here are some screenshots of eq that gnarlsagan and I use and find to be excellent:
   
  http://cdn.head-fi.org/4/4a/500x1000px-LL-4a6ae55d_ER4Seq.png
  http://cdn.head-fi.org/1/17/500x1000px-LL-17faa18a_Screenshot2013-08-08at12.32.13AM.png
   
  You can see from my eq (the darker one) that the er4s doesn't require much.  And what it does require is a very simple smooth bass boost.  The 7khz isn't really a big deal, but it helps so I do it.  Even without eq the bass is superb, but it's just not at reference levels.  You'll never feel it like a speaker without masking other frequencies, but it will give it more of the body it should have way down low.  Even with no eq though, the bass is very "capable".  Just listen to doin' it right by daft punk.  They can hit the lowest sub bass notes with no issue.  Again, not at the volume it should be at by a small amount, but you can hear the full sub bass quality.  So check that out.  I can give you my current rockbox settings if you want.  I think they're the best, most refine, but essentially almost identical to the screenshot above...
  Quote: 





musicbased said:


> "Then you don't listen to the same music i do. . and the irony is that i listen to music quieter than most people i know."
> 
> Luisdent,if you dont mind,would you be able to give an example of a track that you find particularly problematic?
> I would like to download it and see.
> ...


 
   
  I'll try to go through my library later with the c5 and find a few examples.


----------



## musicbased

That would be great, thanks!
So what made you switch from the iPod touch to the clip?


----------



## luisdent

musicbased said:


> That would be great, thanks!
> So what made you switch from the iPod touch to the clip?



A few reasons. First, my 64gb ipod is always full. I had a lot of problems syncing due to no space left. I could't run apps as well with no free space, or camera or video, etc.

The touch is also not as good from the headphone output. It's driven me crazy since i got it. In the car using an aux cable and any earphones. There's always been a really slight but annouing lack of micro clarity. Or at least something weird about the clarity. I got my wife a zip and compared them. The zip sounded like my c5 with the ipod line out. Side by side i was able to easily hear where the flaw was in the ipod HO.

Now i have my ipod for apps, surfing, video, photos, games, etc. and a lot of storage. My zip (now a Fuze v2) is smaller, better HO quality, i get 64gb plus the 8gb in the zip or 2gb in the fuze, so i get almost 12gb more useable space than i had for music on the ipod. I could add another card or get a 128gb when they come out soon.

I also like the fully custom rockbox eq much better than any app or ipod eq except maybe accudio's parametric eq. Rockbox has other powerful audio features as well. The zip uses a standard micro usb cable too. I prefer the fuzes wheel control and physical buttons to the ipod any day. Faster scrolling, control within your pocket and "no vision" control. More minute volume adjustments than the ipod. Shorter and skinnier. More track info can be displayed using rockbox. No itunes required. The list goes on...

I'm actually a huge ipod advocate, but the 5g touch is inferior in headphone output than any other ipod i've ever tested. Every other ipod (i've owned and trued a bunch) has very close to identical quality. All are close to the c5 in linearity and whatnot, just not power and finesse. But the new touch isn't there for me.


----------



## BB 808

Luisdent, I will experiment with the EQ thing with my ER4S (maybe even try the red filters).  Just spent a couple hours listening to "Doin' It Right" and the rest of my Daft Punk collection.  Straight up with no EQ or amplification, the SE530 is still my favorite.  The hisoundaudio PAA-1 Pro and Wooduo 2 are really fun with all their *BASS*.  I should be getting my C5 back from JDS Labs tomorrow in the mail.  Thanks to John at JDS Labs for the firmware update.


----------



## luisdent

bb 808 said:


> Luisdent, I will experiment with the EQ thing with my ER4S (maybe even try the red filters).  Just spent a couple hours listening to "Doin' It Right" and the rest of my Daft Punk collection.  Straight up with no EQ or amplification, the SE530 is still my favorite.  The hisoundaudio PAA-1 Pro and Wooduo 2 are really fun with all their *BASS*.  I should be getting my C5 back from JDS Labs tomorrow in the mail.  Thanks to John at JDS Labs for the firmware update.


It's ok with no eq, but so much better with eq. Daft punk sounds incredible with my eq. Much more reference sounding. Doin' it right has insane sub bass with even a neutral eq setting...


----------



## musicbased

Hmm,might have to try a rockboxed fuze one day,thanks for the info.
I have looked into it but went with the touch because it looks so good!

I had a Hifiman HM801 before the iPod/c5,,and definitely prefer the iPod/c5.
I haven't really listened to the HO actually because I bought it just plug into the c5,and it's always attached with dual lock.
But I do wish there was control buttons on the side though,I agree It's very annoying to have to keep unlocking the screen etc just to change track!
I'm finding the bass boost is staying on more and more recently,it just sounds so good!


----------



## Makiah S

Good to hear. I just bought one of these 
   
  is it powerful enough to source out of an oDac... I would assume so but I know that when I had my cMoy if I sourced it out my Computers Headphone jack the amp did almost nothing sound wise, other than maybe adjust the volume
   
  that being said I've had my oDac for a while now, and my pc is set to run audio out of it. I would assume I should be able to hear the distinct quaitys of the C5 rather easy from the oDac. As before out of my Computer everything sounded the same. With the exceptions of the Desktop Tube I purchased
   
  still out of an oDac it should be easy to listen to the amp. I will be comparing it to my Matrix as well. 
   
  The C5 does have gain settings right


----------



## luisdent

musicbased said:


> Hmm,might have to try a rockboxed fuze one day,thanks for the info.
> I have looked into it but went with the touch because it looks so good!
> 
> I had a Hifiman HM801 before the iPod/c5,,and definitely prefer the iPod/c5.
> ...


I want to add that the touch quality isn't bad, and supposedly, based on graphs, the FR is very flat. However, there is a difference in sound. Most people probably wouldn't even hear it unless they knew what to look for. But it's there.


----------



## Phredd

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> The first thing that pops in my head, as I was just talking about it, is "the wedding" from deep impact by james horner.  Here's a sample of the part I can easily hear the difference with:
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/48137075/06%20The%20Wedding.mp3
> 
> After the soft part with the flute the strings come in.  On the 5g touch headphone output the strings have a strange tone.  The C5 makes them sound correct and even.


 
   
  Thanks for the excerpt. I've listened over and over and I still don't hear a difference. I'm comparing the headphone output from an iPhone 5 (not iPod Touch) with C5. I was using the iPod Touch just for the line out. It was a 5th gen, but I gave that back and I'm now using a 4th gen so it's a simpler connection to the C5.
   
  I'm trying more string music so I have a longer sample to switch back and forth. I'm listening to Scherezade right now they sound identical -- at least with the HD598. I just wondering if it's more noticeable with higher impedance or less sensitive headphones?


----------



## Phredd

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> I'm not sure about the iPhone 5, but I own the previous 4S and the difference is pretty subtle, but noticeable to me. Most of the differences are in the way instruments are separated in my head, with the C5 being much more spacious and instruments are better-defined. The other difference I've noted is that the treble becomes less grainy and more defined, again, compared to the headphone out jack.


 
   
  Which headphones are using where you hear a difference? I'm wondering if it's my headphones that play better, at least with the iPhone 5. Maybe the iPhone 4s wasn't as good as the 5.


----------



## miceblue

Oh yeah I forgot to mention that. I'm using the V-MODA Crossfade M-100 since it's my main portable/on-the-go headphone.


----------



## luisdent

No, it's the 5g ipod not the iphone. The iphone may be different. Every other ipod has been identical. It's only the touch 5g. Heck, it might only be my touch, although i doubt it as there isn't anything else wrong with the sound.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





musicbased said:


> "Then you don't listen to the same music i do. . and the irony is that i listen to music quieter than most people i know."
> 
> Luisdent,if you dont mind,would you be able to give an example of a track that you find particularly problematic?
> I would like to download it and see.
> ...


 
   
  Sorry it took so long.  I've been working and very busy.  All my posts lately have been from my ipod, which ironically doesn't have any music on it now (using the fuze).  Did you check out the james horner song?  You could practically pick any of his music and music like it.
   
  https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/48137075/06%20The%20Wedding.mp3
   
  If you turn that up to a good volume during the quieter parts such as 2:30 with no eq or gain, just full output of a fuze or ipod into the c5 and adjust the c5 volume you're o.k..  Now lower the source volume -10db to compensate for my average eq precut (I don't boost any frequency 10db, but for some reason the eq must be 'additive' in some way, because it clips with loud parts of songs unless i lower the precut to -10db.  This is the same on my computer eq.)
   
  I just tested this on my duet and my fuze.  In both cases there is noise added when the precut is forcing the c5 to near max levels.  You will hear the volume sounds much more prominently and the noise floor increase.  It isn't a huge difference, but it's enough to lessen the enjoyment of the song for me on rare occasions.  This isn't the song.  This is additional noise.  I can literally turn the c5 up with my right hand while I drag the eq precut down 10db simultaneously and hear the noise grow.  Granted i'm using -10db precut.  But it's required if I want to use any eq.  :-o  The C5 is MORE THAN POWERFUL ENOUGH in almost all situations, except here and there when using a demanding phone with eq applied.  That's all.
   
  I repeat... THE C5 IS AMAZING AND POWERFUL!!!! WOOO!    End of story.    I just wish it had a little more raw power for such situations.
   
  Here's another horner song with the same results.
  https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/48137075/04%20The%20Portrait.wav
   
  I've cut the main song out but left the intro and ending to make it sample length.  I've done absolutely nothing to the audio otherwise.  You can compare it to the CD if you have it.  This is a direct lossless rip of the CD cut to sample length.
   
  There are a few sections of the cast away credits by alan silvestri as well.
   
  Listen to this.
  https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/48137075/castaway.wav
   
  In this case, I've only removed the treble to hide all of the noise that was in the original recording.  This will hopefully make it easier to hear the added noise depending on your ears/phones.  If you do what i was saying and reduce gain by 10db via an eq app or just any old gain at the source.  If you turn that up it will start exhibiting noise and noticeable volume button sounds.  Remember, I'm using the er4s.  I'd never get a song to this volume with any other phone I own. :-o  Plus, just the fact that you need to "listen for it" and it's only in rare occasions, obviously means it isn't an issue per se.  Just me being particular.  But that's my right as an audiophile isn't it?    haha
   
  Maybe we just need to slap James Horner for his quiet recordings?  Ha.  But his soundtracks are amazing, and in order to keep the music consistently without reducing dynamics some songs have to be this quiet.  Otherwise, when they build up they wouldn't sound as good.  It's amazing how much one of his songs can change sometimes from barely audible to almost clipping.   But sometimes it isn't the raw volume, but rather a certain instrument or something.  I know orchestral music can be a challenge to master and mix, but his music is definitely beautiful and powerful, so I wouldn't change it and I'm glad he chose the mastering he did.  It just is a bit more demanding of amplifiers.  There's probably others if I can think of some.  They're usually far a few between when I'm shuffling through my music.  Some might be quieter at specific parts where the noise is more noticeable.  But again, rare.
   
  So just to reiterate one more time:
  C5 = AWESOME.  Awesome, powerful reference quality.
  luisdent = Particular.  Picky, needy, demanding audiophile.
  Rate of occurrence = very extremely low


----------



## ThurstonX

C5 + AKG Q701s = tasty, blissful goodness 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Yeah, got the white ones. Burned 'em in for a little over 100 hours, then took 'em for a spin.  I'll post what I did over in the Q701 thread (not totally OT):
   
   
 For the moment I'm using the included 10' green cable.  Never gonna trip over that in the dark 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The C5 set on low gain is plenty to drive them.  Playback noted below is using AIMP3 (latest build) set to WASAPI Exclusive and FLACs.
  
 My first real session with them is using a laptop (RealTek ALC269's HP Out; all Sound Effects off, of course) to the C5 via a 12' Media Bridge cable, playing the latest album by The Bevis Frond (2013's "White Numbers"; check it out at Bandcamp or wherever; good stuff). Being a guitar-driven band of psychedelic Brit pop, I figured it'd be a good test to see how the sound had shaped up, or out, if you prefer.  The highs are still there, and while prominent, I'm not fatigued after 80+ minutes.  It's low-end that got my attention, not to mention the sound stage.  To my ears, the basslines are beautiful.  I tried some minor EQing at various bands (87, 125, 175, 250, in various combinations), but it wasn't needed.  Acoustic guitars are simply gorgeous, as are the few piano parts.
  
 Then, to change it up, I put on track 1 from Hugh Laurie's Let Them Talk ("St. James Infirmary").  Wow. All the raw emotion pours straight through.  Instrument separation is excellent. Subtleties like the guitarist getting ready to join in while Hugh's finishing up the piano intro accentuate the detail the Q701s can deliver.  And the stand-up bass that kicks off the song proper after the dramatic intro... perfection. And finally, Hugh's vocals cut straight to the center of your skull, the band spread out around him.  Even my wife noted all this.  She was amazed, even if a total head-fi neophyte.
  
 There's definitely an airy quality about them, but without sacrificing any impact.  So glad I got these.  Not sure I'll keep burning them in.  I guess plenty of play time will accomplish that.  I'm also interested to compare them my AKG K550s, admittedly a different design, for various types of music.  Lastly, I ordered a custom cable from Redco using Mogami W2893 mini-quad and Redco connectors (mini-TRS and 3.5mm).  Wanted something shorter.  Redco is pleasure to deal with.
  
   
  So yeah, the C5 on low gain is plenty, and absolutely required -- OK, some sort of amp. But we all know people should be getting the C5 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Two very different styles of music. Two, I'd bet my house, *very* different recording, mixing and mastering environments... one glorious outcome.
   
  I'm not sure I can part with my C5 to send it back to the mothership for reprogramming.  We'll see. Finer volume control is tempting. There's also the matter of digging up my original order #.  Gotta be here somewhere...
   
  Time to spread a little of that "Homemade Traditional Electric Jam" on me brain.
   
  Cheers.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





thurstonx said:


> C5 + AKG Q701s = tasty, blissful goodness
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Finer volume control?  Did I miss something?  How do you do that?  Don't tell me it's a simple firmware update.... ?


----------



## miceblue

OK fine. *pun intended*
It isn't a firmware update. You simply punch in the Konomi code and it does the tweaking for you.



Nice impressions *ThurstonX*! I love the K 701 with the C5, but I tend to have it on high-gain mode for a bit more warmth.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> OK fine. *pun intended*
> It isn't a firmware update. You simply punch in the Konomi code and it does the tweaking for you.
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I can't tell if that was a video game reference joke or something real? :-o haha


----------



## miceblue

Yeah the Konami code.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konami_Code

Yeah you have to send it in to update the firmware to get finer volume controls......or you can do it yourself with external hardware/software.


----------



## luisdent

miceblue said:


> Yeah the Konami code.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konami_Code
> 
> Yeah you have to send it in to update the firmware to get finer volume controls......or you can do it yourself with external hardware/software.


Oh i know the code. Don't doubt that for a second. I have a nintendo thumb. Haha


----------



## ThurstonX

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Finer volume control?  Did I miss something?  How do you do that?  Don't tell me it's a simple firmware update.... ?


 
   
  Start from this post, skipping to related posts...
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/647838/jds-labs-c5-portable-amplifier-appreciation-discussion-thread-check-1st-post-for-review/1185#post_9665173


----------



## luisdent

thurstonx said:


> Start from this post, skipping to related posts...
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/647838/jds-labs-c5-portable-amplifier-appreciation-discussion-thread-check-1st-post-for-review/1185#post_9665173



Baaah! I want this!


----------



## ThurstonX

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Baaah! I want this!


 
   
  TRIPLE BAAAH!!!  Me, too!  It's a more than reasonable offer from Jon.  I *really* need to dig up my order number. Mañana.


----------



## luisdent

jseaber said:


> As of today, volume control resolution is 200-400% finer:
> https://github.com/jdslabs/C5_Firmware
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, i realized that flicking it faster helps, but it feels like it wouldn't be the best for the volume control switch in the long run. This is great.


----------



## Makiah S

In two days I will have, one to review my self


----------



## musicbased

luisdent said:


> Sorry it took so long.  I've been working and very busy.  All my posts lately have been from my ipod, which ironically doesn't have any music on it now (using the fuze).  Did you check out the james horner song?  You could practically pick any of his music and music like it.
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/48137075/06%20The%20Wedding.mp3
> 
> ...



Ok so I just tried listening to 'the wedding' with the eq. 
Fortunately/unfortunately,I don't have the problem!
Even with 10db precut,the volume was fine for me in low gain mode nowhere near maxed?-If I max the volume in the quiet part at -10db then I do hear noise,but at that volume,the loud part would be unbearable!
I'm still unsure that I understand.Why would you want to turn the volume up so high for a part of the song that is intended to be quiet??

Also, I know you don't use the iPod touch now, but did you ever try using the eq app called 'equalizer'?
I'm using that,and it has an auto normaliser built in. I've found that with a similar eq boost to yours the cut has never needed to be anywhere near 10db. For example on the wedding,the cut peaked at 1.6db.
I will have a listen to the other examples too ,perhaps they will be more demanding dynamically,but it's that 10db cut that is causing the issue,and luckily (for me)I haven't found that to be necessary!


----------



## luisdent

musicbased said:


> Ok so I just tried listening to 'the wedding' with the eq.
> Fortunately/unfortunately,I don't have the problem!
> Even with 10db precut,the volume was fine for me in low gain mode nowhere near maxed?-If I max the volume in the quiet part at -10db then I do hear noise,but at that volume,the loud part would be unbearable!
> I'm still unsure that I understand.Why would you want to turn the volume up so high for a part of the song that is intended to be quiet??
> ...


I'm not listening to the quiet part loudly. I'm listening to it at what i consider realistic reference level. Low gain? I'm listening on HIGH gain! :-o

That sounds weird. I haven't used equilizer, but i've used denon eq, accudio, sansa rockbox eq and my apple au eq on the laptop. They all require a 10db cut minimum if i'm using around 8db at ine frequency and say 5db at another. It doesn't clip on every song if i don't precut the eq, but only where the music files are loud to begin with. So i need to leave it at -10db globally. As for equalizer, unfortunately/fortunately i have no desire to go back to my ipod for music in general... Maybe i'm more sensitive to noise to begin with? I know i can hear up to higher than normal frequencies and have zero hearing loss. Or maybe something else is going on.


----------



## rawrster

I just placed an order for this amp. I bought the E12 yesterday but this amp also looked interesting esp since it has a digital volume control. I'll probably end up picking one that I like better and sell the other off unless I want to use one for my itouch.


----------



## musicbased

Yes, it sounds like perhaps you are more sensitive to noise and have super good hearing,and in combination with high gain,pre cutting 10db and quiet music,have a recipe for disaster!
I do hear the noise when I max the volume on low gain,but that is way too loud for me!-(When the music goes loud again). I tried high gain,and that was indeed very noisy at max volume,but I dont think i could ever listen that loud.
I doubt you will now, but if you do ever get a chance to try out equalizer,It would be interesting to see if it helped with the noise/precut.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





musicbased said:


> Yes, it sounds like perhaps you are more sensitive to noise and have super good hearing,and in combination with high gain,pre cutting 10db and quiet music,have a recipe for disaster!
> I do hear the noise when I max the volume on low gain,but that is way too loud for me!-(When the music goes loud again). I tried high gain,and that was indeed very noisy at max volume,but I dont think i could ever listen that loud.
> I doubt you will now, but if you do ever get a chance to try out equalizer,It would be interesting to see if it helped with the noise/precut.


 
   
  Are you using the er4s?  Also, I definitely wouldn't call it a disaster.  It's just a very small amount of noise.  I just don't like noise


----------



## thunkerdo

I have the Klispch S4 IEM's and the Beyerdynamic T50p's.  I use my MBP and mostly my iPhone as my music source.  What would this amp get me?  Would I notice a significant improvement in sound quality when hooked up through this amp with either one of these headphones?  I'm new to amplifiers.
   
  Also, would this be what's needed to drive something like the HD 650's?


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





thunkerdo said:


> I have the Klispch S4 IEM's and the Beyerdynamic T50p's.  I use my MBP and mostly my iPhone as my music source.  What would this amp get me?  Would I notice a significant improvement in sound quality when hooked up through this amp with either one of these headphones?  I'm new to amplifiers.
> 
> Also, would this be what's needed to drive something like the HD 650's?


 
   
  It drives my hd600 no problem.  I think the hd650 is practically the same earphone in terms of power handling.


----------



## musicbased

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Are you using the er4s?  Also, I definitely wouldn't call it a disaster.  It's just a very small amount of noise.  I just don't like noise


 
  Yes er4s. You're right, it's definitely not a disaster lol.


----------



## PinkLed

I love the C5. Only problem is now I need a wall adapter. Has anyone bought one that worked well. Pretty sure the C5 battery is 14 volts. Thanks guys.


----------



## luisdent

pinkled said:


> I love the C5. Only problem is now I need a wall adapter. Has anyone bought one that worked well. Pretty sure the C5 battery is 14 volts. Thanks guys.


I use my cell phone usb brick to charge it.


----------



## BB 808

Quote: 





pinkled said:


> I love the C5. Only problem is now I need a wall adapter. Has anyone bought one that worked well. Pretty sure the C5 battery is 14 volts. Thanks guys.


 
  I use the Apple USB power adapter that came with my iPhone.  If you don't have one, you can probably find something similar at an electronics store near you.


----------



## ThurstonX

Quote: 





bb 808 said:


> I use the Apple USB power adapter that came with my iPhone.  If you don't have one, you can probably find something similar at an electronics store near you.


 
   
  Ditto, pretty much. Mine's a generic AC-to-USB adapter I got with an accessories kit for my iPod Classic. Also, I often use a couple different USB extension cables to great effect.


----------



## rawrster

My amp shipped today so hopefully early next week I'll get it. I've been out of the portable game for a while so pretty excited to see what the newer amps are like,


----------



## howdy

how is this compared to the fiio e17 or e07k, im really considering buying this as i have heard nothing but good news.


----------



## PinkLed

The bass boost is really something to be desired. With my cowon X9 im able to get basically any sound I want out of my W4s short of my HD800s with the C5. Opens up a whole new world for Iems for me. In addition this thing is a lot smaller than I expected. The HD800s sound great out of it too!


----------



## Makiah S

mine will b here soon as well... i hope it sounds at least some what simmilar to my matrix m stage with a lme 49990 op... sourced out of the odac ill review it soon


----------



## ThurstonX

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Nice impressions *ThurstonX*! I love the K 701 with the C5, but I tend to have it on high-gain mode for a bit more warmth.


 
   
  Had to come back to this while I'm doing some "serious" listening tests with the K550s and Q701s. Long story short, while the M-Audio Revo 5.1's headphone amp + dedicated jack is pretty good by itself, running it (or the "Green" L/R line out) into the C5 makes for a marked improvement, esp. with the K550s. The sound straight out and in is a bit congested. With the C5 driving them, the K550s clean up very nicely. It's less noticeable on the Q701s.

 And here's why I quote you: I'm *definitely* using high gain on the C5 with the Q701s. The low end was really suffering on low gain. I'm using the 24-bit 96KHz versions of "Circumstances" and "The Trees" by Rush. On high gain I find dropping the Preamp in AIMP3 by a few dBs and EQing 87, 125 and 175 Hz a bit really makes it come alive. And the C5 seems to drive 'em just fine with those adjustments. The K550s on low gain need no EQ.


----------



## Makiah S

Well guys my C5 is in. I like the sound I'm not a big fan of the Sub bass boost atlhough,
   
  On my k550s, the Sub Bass on them is already so tight, the boost seems to completely avoid the upper bass and lower Mids, which... is good I guess but well in Dub Step a wobble is all Upper Bass Lower Mids, over top Deep Sub bass. with ONLY the Sub Bass boosted well the k550 wobbles lop sided xD
   
  Drum n Bass does a little better, but that bass boost is so lop sided. I mean a what +6 peak at 80 hrz, should roll off back to 0 around 200 hrz imo, if it doesn't you end up with this lob sided sound xD
   
  It's not bad I guess I'm just not used to this lol. Some of the bass is boosted others aren't lol sounds kinda bizzare  
   
  Even with the K550s forward ish mids, those Lower Mids and Upper Bass just lack the attack due to the sheer impact of the sub bass... 
   
  What a funny wobble. I think I'll like it over time maybe although, the SUPER MID BASS HUMPED Dt 990 will LOVE this Sub Boost! But the Lopsided wobbleing K550 C5 combo will take some time to adjust to lawl. [ofc if I eq a mid bass hump in on top of the C5 hard eq it sounds a little better lol] 
   
  So the bass is pretty balanced I will say...
   
  In High gain the bass boost ruins my Dt 990s? Can this amp run 600 ohm cans :O as that High Gain is SERIOUSLY powerful it seems


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> Well guys my C5 is in. I like the sound I'm not a big fan of the Sub bass boost atlhough,
> 
> On my k550s, the Sub Bass on them is already so tight, the boost seems to completely avoid the upper bass and lower Mids, which... is good I guess but well in Dub Step a wobble is all Upper Bass Lower Mids, over top Deep Sub bass. with ONLY the Sub Bass boosted well the k550 wobbles lop sided xD
> 
> ...


 
   
  Bass boost on the k550?  Those are one of my favorite headphones with NO eq.   They sound awesome.


----------



## ThurstonX

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Bass boost on the k550?  Those are one of my favorite headphones with NO eq.   They sound awesome.


 
   
  Ditto. Just look at my avatar! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Maybe on the Q701, depending on the source.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





thurstonx said:


> Ditto. Just look at my avatar!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  All right.  Go rangy!  I've actually been considering buying the 550 I like it so much.  It's the closest thing to an hd600 closed.  I've heard it a few times and every time I love the flatness.  The only reason I never bought one is because the headband at its smallest setting isn't small enough for my head.  Ha.  The cups sit on my earlobes.  My head aint even that small!  I've been considering getting them and just adding foam or something under the headband as a spacer...  They can't be beat for the price.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> Bass boost on the k550?  Those are one of my favorite headphones with NO eq.   They sound awesome.


 
  Yes they do, but I like a little more bass on my EDM. I've mentioned I enjoy EDM with a good bit of BASS BOOOOST, and well sufficent amount's of bass boost still keep the K550 bass tight and deep, just give a touch more kick without changing the sound signiture, I mean cmon it's techno. The whole idea there is to CRANK IT UP and let that bass punch a hole in the side of ur head! 
   
  That being said [always top notch customer service from John] JDS offered to set the hardware bass boost down if I wanted to [and I might drop it dwn by 1db]
   
  THe biggest issues I have with it is with Nu Tone, Dan Gresham, just has a lot of decay in his DnB. Some songs sound good and others a little over whelming. Going back to lopsided wobbles. Benga and Rusko wobble differently so ofc one sounds better than the other with the bass boost [dang it Rusko] 
   
  So sometimes the bass is just right, some times it's to much xD I guess I'll jut get used to it


----------



## SkyBleu

Hey guys...I've been experiencing a slight hissing noise when I use my C5 nowadays..seems like it began to occur after I accidently let it go fully flat yesterday. 

I love the amp and all, but I've never recalled it hissing.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





skybleu said:


> Hey guys...I've been experiencing a slight hissing noise when I use my C5 nowadays..seems like it began to occur after I accidently let it go fully flat yesterday.


 
   
  C5 cannot be damaged by a drained battery. Common things to check:
   

 Is source volume set as usual?
 Is amplifier gain and volume set to your usual positions?
 Have you changed sources or headphones?
   
  We'll be glad to inspect if you'd like to send it in, but there's most likely a simple explanation.


----------



## rawrster

I got the amp in the mail today. It looks like a much better form factor for the Fiio X3 I have than the Fiio E12. Unfortunately I'm at work now so I can't do anything with it now but after work I'll be able to. 
   
  I'll probably sell the E12 or buy something that has a better form factor like a itouch or something.


----------



## luisdent

jseaber said:


> C5 cannot be damaged by a drained battery. Common things to check:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It might not be the case, but are you charging it via usb since it recently died? Computer whining can travel through the usb ground. This can sound like a high pitched whine or whistling sometimes. This isn't a problem with the c5. Unplug the usb cable. See if it stops...


----------



## SkyBleu

jseaber said:


> C5 cannot be damaged by a drained battery. Common things to check:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hmm..that's strange, because I don't recall changing the volume of the source from its usual, nor the volume on the amp, and I haven't exactly change headphones / source.

Nevertheless, after a few more hours of usage, the issue had seem to have subsided, so hopefully it should be fine now

Very much appreciate your help! Thanks you.


----------



## luisdent

skybleu said:


> Hmm..that's strange, because I don't recall changing the volume of the source from its usual, nor the volume on the amp, and I haven't exactly change headphones / source.
> 
> Nevertheless, after a few more hours of usage, the issue had seem to have subsided, so hopefully it should be fine now
> 
> Very much appreciate your help! Thanks you.


Usb?


----------



## SkyBleu

luisdent said:


> It might not be the case, but are you charging it via usb since it recently died? Computer whining can travel through the usb ground. This can sound like a high pitched whine or whistling sometimes. This isn't a problem with the c5. Unplug the usb cable. See if it stops...




I'm actually charging my C5 via the USB cable plugged into an Apple charger. That way, it charges faster for me.

What you told me was interesting, and I'll definitely keep that in mind! 

Thanks!


----------



## tnmike1

Anyone listening to classical/small jazz groups/female jazz singers with this amp?? And how does it sound in these genres??


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





tnmike1 said:


> Anyone listening to classical/small jazz groups/female jazz singers with this amp?? And how does it sound in these genres??


 
  Female jazz sounds good, I do enjoy this amp with a more neutral can!


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





tnmike1 said:


> Anyone listening to classical/small jazz groups/female jazz singers with this amp?? And how does it sound in these genres??


 
   
  But of course.  All of the above.  Excellent with both my er4s and pfe112 with eq.  Sounds excellent without eq on both, but I use eq on any headphones/earphones to make them closer to perfection.  The c5 really allows them to be neutral though with clean clear frequency response.  Meaning, all the frequencies are easy to hear due to the flat response and adding eq doesn't cause the amp to struggle or anything.  It's more than capable and reference quality for most gear.


----------



## chengsta

I listen to classical with bass boost ON!  I feel like it's natural because if you've ever been to an orchestra, you will realize that yes, there is a lot of bass.  But then when you listen through headphones the bass isn't there and so I believe that bass is just naturally attenuated from our equipment and 'natural' isn't natural at all, it's bass-less and it bugs me.  Classical sounds alot more enjoyable and realistic with bass on, it feels as if I'm right in front of the concert. 
   
  With that being said, hey JDS labs!  Your C5 amp is my favourite, but I was wondering if you guys are considering creating an amp of the same quality (or better) as the C5, but with a 9 or 12db bass boost option...  No I'm not crazy, and I already have the Z02 and don't like its poor quality.


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





chengsta said:


> I listen to classical with bass boost ON!  I feel like it's natural because if you've ever been to an orchestra, you will realize that yes, there is a lot of bass.  But then when you listen through headphones the bass isn't there and so I believe that bass is just naturally attenuated from our equipment and 'natural' isn't natural at all, it's bass-less and it bugs me.  Classical sounds alot more enjoyable and realistic with bass on, it feels as if I'm right in front of the concert.
> 
> With that being said, hey JDS labs!  Your C5 amp is my favourite, but I was wondering if you guys are considering creating an amp of the same quality (or better) as the C5, but with a 9 or 12db bass boost option...  No I'm not crazy, and I already have the Z02 and don't like its poor quality.


 
   
   
  It would be a great replacement for something like a z02, but just admit it... you're a basshead!   haha  it's o.k.  we still love you.  moohahaha


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





chengsta said:


> I listen to classical with bass boost ON!  I feel like it's natural because if you've ever been to an orchestra, you will realize that yes, there is a lot of bass.  But then when you listen through headphones the bass isn't there and so I believe that bass is just naturally attenuated from our equipment and 'natural' isn't natural at all, it's bass-less and it bugs me.  Classical sounds alot more enjoyable and realistic with bass on, it feels as if I'm right in front of the concert.
> 
> With that being said, hey JDS labs!  Your C5 amp is my favourite, but I was wondering if you guys are considering creating an amp of the same quality (or better) as the C5, but with a 9 or 12db bass boost option...  No I'm not crazy, and I already have the Z02 and don't like its poor quality.


 
   
  More bass boost? I think most users would complain. Customizing bass boost is possible (swap two resistors).


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> More bass boost? I think most users would complain. Customizing bass boost is possible (swap two resistors).


 
   
  Judging by his profile headphone listing, he likes bass.   Nothing wrong with that.   I like me some bass too. haha.  But I also like perfectly flat response.  I don't think I'd ever use more than 6d personally and that's with the er4s!   Hehe.  But to each his own.  Listen to what you like the sound of.
   
  Have you tried a good eq app?  I can give you some tips on getting the most out of your bass eq if it helps.  In fact john posted a frequency response of the bass boost.  You can eq the same exact curve and get 12db that way.  Just make sure to lower the eq gain to avoid clipping.


----------



## chengsta

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> More bass boost? I think most users would complain. Customizing bass boost is possible (swap two resistors).


 

 cool is that possible?  Would it affect the rest of the spectrum?  I can do the soldering myself if you show me which ones


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





chengsta said:


> cool is that possible?  Would it affect the rest of the spectrum?  I can do the soldering myself if you show me which ones


 
   
  R601 and R602 define bass boost intensity, and do not affect higher frequencies. You'll find them above the large, silver capacitors, near the main opamp.
   
  Start with 10k and go higher until you find your favorite value. We've done a couple custom builds with reduced bass boost at 4.99k. Experimentation is always helpful.


----------



## SkyBleu

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> C5 cannot be damaged by a drained battery. Common things to check:
> 
> 
> Is source volume set as usual?
> ...


 
   


luisdent said:


> It might not be the case, but are you charging it via usb since it recently died? Computer whining can travel through the usb ground. This can sound like a high pitched whine or whistling sometimes. This isn't a problem with the c5. Unplug the usb cable. See if it stops...


   
  Hey guys, very sorry about my incident yesterday regarding the C5's "hiss".
   
  I found out today what the error was, and why it was doing it. It was utterly my fault, and I am deeply sorry for raising awareness over a false claim. It turned out my source was not maxed volume, but was set to rather low, hence I needed to pretty much max the C5 to produce sound.
   
  It has been solved, and the greatness of the dead silence from the C5 has been restored. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Thanks for your help and thoughtfulness, guys!


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





chengsta said:


> I listen to classical with bass boost ON!  I feel like it's natural because if you've ever been to an orchestra, you will realize that yes, there is a lot of bass.  But then when you listen through headphones the bass isn't there and so I believe that bass is just naturally attenuated from our equipment and 'natural' isn't natural at all, it's bass-less and it bugs me.  Classical sounds alot more enjoyable and realistic with bass on, it feels as if I'm right in front of the concert.
> 
> With that being said, hey JDS labs!  Your C5 amp is my favourite, but I was wondering if you guys are considering creating an amp of the same quality (or better) as the C5, but with a 9 or 12db bass boost option...  No I'm not crazy, and I already have the Z02 and don't like its poor quality.


 
  I agree and dis agree -.- SHAME on you, if you want the EPIC bass of Classical listen to a Beyer Dt 990 WITHOUT bass boost, as the can has a SUPER great MID BASS hump that's very tight and well textured... but I do agree to a point. Classical is better with a tad more bass than neutral, point in case the Akg K550 can't compete with the Beyer Dt 990 Pro's classical delivery! 
   
  That being said, I'm having the bass boost on my C5 halfed, it's a touch to much for me!


----------



## ThurstonX

Quote: 





skybleu said:


> Hey guys, very sorry about my incident yesterday regarding the C5's "hiss".
> 
> I found out today what the error was, and why it was doing it. It was utterly my fault, and I am deeply sorry for raising awareness over a false claim. It turned out my source was not maxed volume, but was set to rather low, hence I needed to pretty much max the C5 to produce sound.
> 
> ...


 
   
  No apology needed, esp. since you solved the mystery and posted the explanation. Now others who experience the same or a similar problem have a little more knowledge they can use.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





thurstonx said:


> No apology needed, esp. since you solved the mystery and posted the explanation. Now others who experience the same or a similar problem have a little more knowledge they can use.


 
  Glad to hear that


----------



## jamesfleming

tnmike1 said:


> Anyone listening to classical/small jazz groups/female jazz singers with this amp?? And how does it sound in these genres??




I've found it to sound beautiful with female vocals. I'm a big fan of Alice Russell and her voice is captivating with both my Beyer dt770AEs and Hifiman HE-500s.

IMO the c5 is quite a neutral sounding amp so it really let's the 'phones shine


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





jamesfleming said:


> I've found it to sound beautiful with female vocals. I'm a big fan of Alice Russell and her voice is captivating with both my Beyer dt770AEs and Hifiman HE-500s.
> 
> IMO the c5 is quite a neutral sounding amp so it really let's the 'phones shine


 
  Hmm it can run a He-500
   
  Does this amp have enough power to sufficently drive a 600 Ohm Beyer Dt 880, I'd assume from using it in LOW GAIN [with the 250 ohm Beyer Dt 990 Pro] that yes it does, the question though is quality... I am hopeful... and I'll see how well it does soon enough! 
   
  Going to be pairing a Hifiman Hm 801 ->Jds Labs C5 -> Beyer Dt 880 Pre 600 ohm, as my new portable, a direct upgrade to my old hm 601 jds cMoy -> Beyer Dt 880 Pro 250 ohm set 
   
  As a frame of refrance, I very much enjoy the 600 ohm at 50% volume out of my Matrix M stage [at +10 gain :O]


----------



## luisdent

I was telling gnarlsagan in a message the other day that I had my comply foam tips and er4s in my ears for a while listening to music, enjoying the heck out of it, and then realized I wasn't using any eq at all.  Could I have improved things with a touch of sub bass eq?  Sure, but I never noticed anything was missing.  I'm saying this for two reasons.
   
  First, the er4s, while not perfectly flat in the sub bass, definitely doesn't lack any major amount of bass.  In fact, I'd say most speakers that people love for "bass" have less sub bass than the er4s.  Anyhow, the comply tips really help for me.  I can insert them the deepest while getting an excellent AND uber comfortable seal.  I mean comfortable.  So far, I'd say the er4s is as comfortable as anything else, but isolates better when I use these tips.
   
  Second, I realized why the bass roll off didn't bother me that night listening with no EQ...  I was using lossless files and my JDS C5 amp instead of just my fuze.  I can't exactly say why, but I tried using no eq again tonight, only this time being aware of it.  I am listening right now and it sounds great.  Again, with the C5 sourced from my apogee duet computer interface using lossless files.  So, here's the thing.  I can't exactly tell how or why, but the bass just sounds better on the C5.  If I do a switch back and forth between fuze/C5 I have a very hard time telling any difference.  However, when I listen with the fuze using no eq I almost always feel the need to add my sub bass eq after 15 seconds into a song.  Not that it's "needed" but I much prefer it.  So I will have to compare the C5/lossless to the fuze side by side instead of just the fuze with and without the C5.
   
  So apparently either the C5 is doing something on high gain that makes the bass sound better or it's the lossless files... or both.  It doesn't sound louder or boosted at all, but just better somehow.  And that further makes it seem less recessed.  I still prefer a tad eq no matter what to make it truly flat and wish they had that implemented in them by default.  However, this is a nice thing to know.  I might have to use lossless and/or the C5 with my fuze as well now. 
   
  The C5 is pretty much ruler flat frequency response as is the sansa line of players with these audio components (fuze/clip/zip).  So I'm not sure what it is.  Perhaps the extra power is just making a difference in driving them better?  Perhaps the lossless files?  Perhaps don wilson could chime in on wether the raw amp power would make a difference if the fuze drives them well to begin with?  I don't notice any other major differences so far,  but I'll start doing more serious comparisons.  Again, the difference is so small I have a hard time telling between the two comparing them.  But I know it's there, because more than once now I've found the sound to be different without even knowing why and then realizing it's the C5 on my computer vs. the fuze being different.  So there was no mental bias in the picture.
   
*I'll post this and ask john seaber on the c5 thread as well.*  He did mention the high gain sounding "different" but I'm not sure why... I think he said he did all the measurements on high gain, thus the frequency response should be ruler flat...  Interesting.  Go C5/ER4S/lossless combo!!!  Wow. That's all I can say.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> I was telling gnarlsagan in a message the other day that I had my comply foam tips and er4s in my ears for a while listening to music, enjoying the heck out of it, and then realized I wasn't using any eq at all.  Could I have improved things with a touch of sub bass eq?  Sure, but I never noticed anything was missing.  I'm saying this for two reasons.
> 
> First, the er4s, while not perfectly flat in the sub bass, definitely doesn't lack any major amount of bass.  In fact, I'd say most speakers that people love for "bass" have less sub bass than the er4s.  Anyhow, the comply tips really help for me.  I can insert them the deepest while getting an excellent AND uber comfortable seal.  I mean comfortable.  So far, I'd say the er4s is as comfortable as anything else, but isolates better when I use these tips.
> 
> ...


 
   
  OH TRUST ME, the C5 in high gain has a BIG bass boost. VERY solid and well textured, but it's HUGE, about twice as loud as the Low gain boost [at least on my model and to my ears] and yes I am matching volume when I switch from high to low gain. John also told me the High Gain boost is different! 
   
  Still I'm getting my bass boost halved tommorw!


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> OH TRUST ME, the C5 in high gain has a BIG bass boost. VERY solid and well textured, but it's HUGE, about twice as loud as the Low gain boost [at least on my model and to my ears] and yes I am matching volume when I switch from high to low gain. John also told me the High Gain boost is different!
> 
> Still I'm getting my bass boost halved tommorw!


 
   
  I was referring to the amp gain mode, not the bass boost gain mode.  My C5 with bass boost OFF in high-gain amp mode sounds pretty much the same flatness as the low-gain amp mode, but just different...  Maybe I'm wrong, but is high gain/no bass boost mode ruler flat frequency response john?


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> I was referring to the amp gain mode, not the bass boost gain mode.  My C5 with bass boost OFF in high-gain amp mode sounds pretty much the same flatness as the low-gain amp mode, but just different...  Maybe I'm wrong, but is high gain/no bass boost mode ruler flat frequency response john?


 
  Oh yea, high gain is sonically [at least to me] the same sound wise, and John would totally know!


----------



## jamesfleming

mshenay said:


> Hmm it can run a He-500




Volume is definitely not an issue, it gets plenty loud enough even on low gain. I've experienced some clipping at quite high volume with the bass boost on, however, this is pretty rare and not at the volume I usually listen at.

Does it do them justice? I don't know. I bought an ALO Rx MkII recently to try something a bit more powerful. I haven't had enough time to compare the two but my initial thoughts are that the Rx does bass better.

I've been hearing good things about the Lake People G103/G109 so I'm going to go down that route after selling either one or both of my portables.

I really wish there was somewhere local (Brisbane Australia) that I could audition some amps. It's very difficult to know just how much of my H500s potential is being realized with my current setup.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





jamesfleming said:


> Volume is definitely not an issue, it gets plenty loud enough even on low gain. I've experienced some clipping at quite high volume with the bass boost on, however, this is pretty rare and not at the volume I usually listen at.
> 
> Does it do them justice? I don't know. I bought an ALO Rx MkII recently to try something a bit more powerful. I haven't had enough time to compare the two but my initial thoughts are that the Rx does bass better.
> 
> ...


 
  Indeed, as your know orthos are very current hungry so chances are the portable isn't quiete getting them where they need to be, i'm just hoping the C5 will have enough volts to drive the 600 ohm Beyers. I suppose I'll know soon enough! When I get my 3.5mm 1/4" adapter in to give a listen to the beyer C5 combo


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> Oh yea, high gain is sonically [at least to me] the same sound wise, and John would totally know!


 
   
  Frequency response is flat in both gain modes. Bass boost, THD, and max output power change between the two levels.


----------



## pcyco

hallo
   
  does the led turns off when the charging is completed??
   
  regards
   
  thomas


----------



## miceblue

Yup it turns off.


----------



## pcyco

hallo
   
  thanks a lot miceblue
   
  regards
   
  thomas


----------



## luisdent

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Frequency response is flat in both gain modes. Bass boost, THD, and max output power change between the two levels.


 
   
  What am I hearing different?  Could the thd be detectable?  Isn't it ridiculously low on low gain already?  Perhaps it's just that the c5 is better in general and comparing the gain modes is hard without volume matching?


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





luisdent said:


> comparing the gain modes is hard without volume matching?


 
   
  That is quite likely, a volume difference can easily be perceived as a subtle quality difference, and it is very hard to match accurately enough by ear. People frequently think high gain (even digital high gain) sounds better, which is most probably simply because it is louder.


----------



## Lespectraal

Can this be used as desktop amp? As in I'll get a USB wall charger(a good one from a well respected brand) and use it in conjunction with my portable DAC? Will it degrade the battery or is it safe?

 Thanks.


----------



## jseaber

lespectraal said:


> Can this be used as desktop amp? As in I'll get a USB wall charger(a good one from a well respected brand) and use it in conjunction with my portable DAC? Will it degrade the battery or is it safe?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 Perfectly safe. C5 will only charge when the battery level drops below 95%.


----------



## Lespectraal

jseaber said:


> Perfectly safe. C5 will only charge when the battery level drops below 95%.


 
 Fantastic. Alright that's it I've been setting my eyes on this device for a long time now, was introduced to it by a friend who had this very amp. I needed a good portable amp that could also be used in a desktop configuration, to drive my DT880 Pros 250 Ohm through either of my Fiio devices the Olympus E10 and the Taishan D03K. I know I'll be delighted. It's a wonderful piece of engineering I must say. I'm going to order one.


----------



## boyssboyssg

Where to get this amp? Available in Singapore or there is a DIY pic


----------



## OmsJtmz32

boyssboyssg said:


> Where to get this amp? Available in Singapore or there is a DIY pic



I remember seeing the C5 at Connect-It at 4th floor Tampines, you may want to have a look there. Otherwise you can place your order at jds labs website.


----------



## boyssboyssg

Where to buy this?


----------



## boyssboyssg

I mean the mod c5 with ud100 dac.


----------



## miceblue

boyssboyssg said:


> I mean the mod c5 with ud100 dac.


 
 That's not a buyable option yet since it was a D.I.Y. project.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/647838/jds-labs-c5-portable-amplifier-appreciation-discussion-thread-check-1st-post-for-review/360#post_9216039
  
  
  
 In other news, I found a new portable rig that sounds much better than the iPhone 4S + FiiO L9 + C5 + V-MODA Crossfade M-100 rig I was using beforehand:

 ^ iPod Video 5G (one of the two iPods with _the_ Wolfson DAC: WM87588G)
 Musical bliss right there, and portable too.


----------



## Emospence

omsjtmz32 said:


> I remember seeing the C5 at Connect-It at 4th floor Tampines, you may want to have a look there. Otherwise you can place your order at jds labs website.


 
 Wah really ah? Thought must order online.. Will go take a look!


----------



## georgelai57

Cam





emospence said:


> Wah really ah? Thought must order online.. Will go take a look!
> [/quoCan also look at treoo.com


----------



## akhyar

emospence said:


> Wah really ah? Thought must order online.. Will go take a look!




ConnectIT at JEM also have a demo set.


----------



## Emospence

akhyar said:


> ConnectIT at JEM also have a demo set.


 
  
 I stay Tampines 
  
 Demo only though? Do they sell?


----------



## akhyar

emospence said:


> I stay Tampines
> 
> Demo only though? Do they sell?




Most probably they sell it too, coz they shown the prices for members and non-members as well. 
The new all black casing looks very sleek. My ex C5 was the slate casing with shiny face plate, so colour matching was a bit hard


----------



## Emospence

akhyar said:


> Most probably they sell it too, coz they shown the prices for members and non-members as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wah, will def head down there tmr or weekend!


----------



## OmsJtmz32

How much are they selling the C5? Didnt asked for price the previous time I went.


----------



## akhyar

IIRC, S$25x for non-members and S$23x for members


----------



## MasterPR0

I'm selling my near brand new C5 if anyone's interested


----------



## ocelot2500

Hi all,
 I have had the C5 for a little while now and have liked it.  I have an issue with the gain switch however.
  
 Whenever I use the gain switch, it seems to only boost the right channel.  Has this happened to anyone?  I am guessing I might've damaged the amp carrying it in my backpack.


----------



## luisdent

ocelot2500 said:


> Hi all,
> I have had the C5 for a little while now and have liked it.  I have an issue with the gain switch however.
> 
> Whenever I use the gain switch, it seems to only boost the right channel.  Has this happened to anyone?  I am guessing I might've damaged the amp carrying it in my backpack.




No problems here, and I carry mine in my backpack. Contact JDS.


----------



## jseaber

ocelot2500 said:


> Hi all,
> I have had the C5 for a little while now and have liked it.  I have an issue with the gain switch however.
> 
> Whenever I use the gain switch, it seems to only boost the right channel.  Has this happened to anyone?  I am guessing I might've damaged the amp carrying it in my backpack.


 
  
 This is accidental damage to the gain/bass boost circuit; we've seen it happen to about 0.2% of C5 owners, all of which ordered within the first two months. We made a change to battery mounting after April 2013, which eliminates the chance of accidental damage.
  
 Email us and we'll get it resolved for you.


----------



## ocelot2500

Thanks for the responses.  It is a bit reassuring that it is a known issue.


----------



## luisdent

I'm going to cross post this from the er4s appreciation thread, as I think it's very relevant:
  
 I've had an interesting night tonight with my earphones.  First, let me say that the er4s with the sansa players is a really awesome combo and probably sounds better than a lot of other devices even with amps.  However, tonight I have found without a doubt that the er4s sound better through my c5.  I normally use my c5 as a desktop amp or to amp my ipod when I use it.  I normally power my er4s raw from the sansa players.
  
 For those following this thread, you might remember me talking a while back about not being able to tell why, but thinking the bass was better under certain circumstances.  Those circumstances are the c5 by jds labs, no question.
  
 I listened to some things for a while with the c5 and then listed without them.  I did this with both my er4s and my pfe112.  I found two things.  First, the c5 definitely improves both earphones about equally.  And second, the er4s is a lot better than the pfe112.   haha  Don't get me wrong, the pfe112 is still my second favorite earphone, hands down.  However, I've noticed a few things in this testing that have caused me to think even more highly of the er4s.
  
 To start, the main differences between the fuze/clip/zip and the c5 even with those double amped, is are following:
 - Clearer sounding overall.  Not to be confused with bright treble.  The frequency response is identical with either setup.  However, I can "clearly" hear a more distinct and sort of crisp dynamic sound using the c5.  This is true direct from my audio interface into the c5 and even double amping the sansa players.
 - Tighter sound, especially in the bass.  In fact, with the pfe112 I can't even get the same bass level/quality without the c5.  For instance, if I boost the sub bass around 20-50hz by something ridiculous like 15db, the sansa player stops really showing any difference after say 8db.  When I use the same eq with the c5 the bass, although still not noticeably bassier, does indeed show improved bass level and impact versus the sansa alone.  Not a huge difference, but noticeable.  I think this might be partly due to the fact that the pfe112 eq is much more complex with more ups and downs than the er4s eq.  Perhaps another driver would help this.  Either way, the same isn't as true with the er4s for some reason.  The sansa players seem to power the bass pretty well unamped.  However, the er4s requires very few and very little eq changes.  The main difference with the er4s using the c5 is the improved clarity and dimensionality.  Things stand out more and seem more present and spacious.  You hear into the sound more, which is really impressive, as the er4s is already the most depth I've heard in an earphone.
  
 Again, the differences are small, but tonight I found they are definitely there and easy to hear with certain music and listening.  In fact, I think I'm going to start using my c5 all the time, even with my sansa players portably.  At least for a while to see if the difference matters enough for me portably.  Just thought I'd post that in case anyone was interested with all this amp talk going around.   So, while the sansa/er4s gives you, say, 93% awesome, the c5 brings it up to 98% awesome.     haha  The ipod on the other hand (5th gen touch) goes from say 90% to 98% awesome.
  
 Definitely worth the purchase.  I'm very glad to have mine.  Lately, I've also been using it to power my er4s with my wife's ipad while she uses her earphones in the same ipad.  I use a splitter and route my split end to the c5 for my er4s earphones.  This allows me to control my own volume, power the er4s properly and she is unaffected.  Very cool.  This is one example where a bit more power would be nice, because her earphones require her to have the volume a bit lower and thus I need to amplify things more.  The er4s are quiet to begin with, so other earphones might not have this issue, however, I run the c5 at about 90-95% doing this.  More than sufficient, but just saying. 
  
 Go buy a C5.


----------



## Godthul

How is the C5 with the HD650's?  Has anyone tried that yet?


----------



## jonbmet

godthul said:


> How is the C5 with the HD650's?  Has anyone tried that yet?


 

 I enjoy mine with the C5.


----------



## Godthul

jonbmet said:


> I enjoy mine with the C5.


 
 Do you have any comparison to a desktop amplifier?  The 650s don't seem to do that well underpowered.


----------



## Spadge

Has anyone compared the C5 to the Meier Stepdance or 2Stepdance?

I currently am using Computer -> ODAC -> 2Stepdance and find it very good, but just wondering what the C5 pairing might offer.

Thanks,
Paul


----------



## luisdent

I haven't tried the hd659 with the c5, however my hd600 sounds great. Plenty of power on high gain compared to my apogee desktop interface and my denon avr998 receiver. It sounds very reference, and the low output impedance is great for not affecting the frequency response.


----------



## shakur1996

Can anyone please compare c421 with AD8620 and c5. I know that implementation is crucial but In my DIY Amp I prefer AD8620 over OPA2227; for me OPA2227 seems to be more slow and warmer, it does not have this amount of air like AD8620. Currently I'm looking for a new amp and I would like to have a very transparent one without any boosts in any region. Does C5 meets this criteria? Or maybe c421 would be better?


----------



## jseaber

shakur1996 said:


> Currently I'm looking for a new amp and I would like to have a *very transparent one *without any boosts in any region. Does C5 meets this criteria? Or maybe c421 would be better?


 
  
 Definitely C5 if you're after transparency. Output impedance of c421 was very high, which resulted in coloured frequency response with some headphones below 80 ohms. C5 has ideal output impedance and frequency response.


----------



## luisdent

jseaber said:


> shakur1996 said:
> 
> 
> > Currently I'm looking for a new amp and I would like to have a *very transparent one *without any boosts in any region. Does C5 meets this criteria? Or maybe c421 would be better?
> ...


 
  
 It's as neutral as the best amps I've heard.  It's surprisingly reference for the price.


----------



## shakur1996

Many thanks. So I will have to look for a second hand c5 or buy a new one. Does JDS Labs have any sales agent in europe ( I would like to avoid necessity to pay customs)?


----------



## Bertie439

Try this store; http://headphoniaks.com/es/35-jds-labs


----------



## kharken

I'm planning to buy the C5 but I want to use my SoundMagic PL11 and PC as source with it. Isn't the bass boost picky on the kind of earphones you use? I mean, will the bass really increase no matter what earphones you use?


----------



## Bertie439

My Phonak Audeo PFE 012's with the grey filters respond well to the C5's bass boost, that said they're not fullest sounding earphones out there. I've not heard the PL11's, hopefully another Head-Fier can chime in.


----------



## luisdent

bertie439 said:


> My Phonak Audeo PFE 012's with the grey filters respond well to the C5's bass boost, that said they're not fullest sounding earphones out there. I've not heard the the PL11's, hopefully another Head-Fier can chime in.


 
 I have a great pfe grey filter eq if you want to try it.  What device are you using?


----------



## Bertie439

Hi luisdent
  
 I'm using an iPod Classic 6G (iFlash Mod) with Rockbox, and an iPod Video 5.5 (iFlash Mod) with Rockbox. A second iPod Video 5.5 (240Gb HDD) with, you guessed it, Rockbox!


----------



## luisdent

I would assume the rockbox eq is consistent across devices? I'll post the eq for it.


----------



## howdy

jseaber said:


> Definitely C5 if you're after transparency. Output impedance of c421 was very high, which resulted in coloured frequency response with some headphones below 80 ohms. C5 has ideal output impedance and frequency response.



With the transparency is there a lot of separation. This would important, I'm looking for something to open up my DX50 more.


----------



## Punnisher

Hey everyone. I have been doing a lot of reading on this amp but I still have one question. How much configuration is possible in terms of the bass boost on this unit? I read that changing out some components on the board will change the amount of bass boost. Is there a software component to this frequency modification as well? 
  
 What I'm really after is running custom DSP on the microcontroller. I want to make custom contours to equalize frequency response.
  
 Something tells me this is out of the question for a microcontroller of this type but I thought I'd ask the experts.


----------



## ostewart

The software part is to change the volume steps and LED, the bass boost is hardware. Changing some resistors will change the bass boost, you'll have to talk to John at JDS about it.

There's a surprise in store from JDS Labs, coming next month.


----------



## Spadge

ostewart said:
			
		

> There's a surprise in store from JDS Labs, coming next month.




Any hints?


----------



## Maxloire

Does c5 improve sq of dx50?


----------



## ostewart

Wait 2 weeks


----------



## TekeRugburn

C5 sounds amazing on low gain and no bass boost.  ALMOST as good as the Tralucent T1.  The T1 just had a darker background ever so slightly but still noticeable.


----------



## howdy

tekerugburn said:


> C5 sounds amazing on low gain and no bass boost.  ALMOST as good as the Tralucent T1.  The T1 just had a darker background ever so slightly but still noticeable.



Have you tried other amps with the DX50?


----------



## TekeRugburn

Yes


----------



## howdy

tekerugburn said:


> Yes



Do you mine elaborating?


----------



## Marleybob217

DX50+C5+Cosmic Ears BA4f
  
 In contrary to popular believe, the C5 is definitely on the warm side. I've read many people write, that this is fairly neutral amp. I would have to disagree, not that a warm sound is a bad thing perse. But the warm sound sig of my cIEMs + a warm amp is a bit much for me.


----------



## TekeRugburn

I have to disagree. The c5 is far from warm.


----------



## luisdent

marleybob217 said:


> DX50+C5+Cosmic Ears BA4f
> 
> In contrary to popular believe, the C5 is definitely on the warm side. I've read many people write, that this is fairly neutral amp. I would have to disagree, not that a warm sound is a bad thing perse. But the warm sound sig of my cIEMs + a warm amp is a bit much for me.


 
  
 You must be coming from a bright amp, and you're now hearing a neutral amp.  There is nothing warm about the c5.  It is practically perfectly flat frequency response and all the specs are very reference.  Unless something else is happening in your setup, you should be hearing neutral.  Perhaps your ba4f is actually on the warm side and you're not used to hearing it that way... ?


----------



## Marleybob217

luisdent said:


> You must be coming from a bright amp, and you're now hearing a neutral amp.  There is nothing warm about the c5.  It is practically perfectly flat frequency response and all the specs are very reference.  Unless something else is happening in your setup, you should be hearing neutral.  Perhaps your ba4f is actually on the warm side and you're not used to hearing it that way... ?


 
  


tekerugburn said:


> I have to disagree. The c5 is far from warm.


 
  
 Well you guys might be right. My BA4f Is warm, and I do generally prefer to pair it with somewhat colder amps. The HO of the DX50 is fairly cold-ish sounding, and the O2 is regarded as somewhat cold as well.


----------



## howdy

Help me decide between the Ibasso D42 or the JDS Labs C5. They are similar in price but what about sound. I would be paring it with my DX50 and or my IPod Classic. I’m looking for a mostly transparent to ever so slightly warm sig.


----------



## Marleybob217

howdy said:


> Help me decide between the Ibasso D42 or the JDS Labs C5. They are similar in price but what about sound. I would be paring it with my DX50 and or my IPod Classic. I’m looking for a mostly transparent to ever so slightly warm sig.


 
 While I haven't heard the D42, and do not find the C5 to be ideal in my setup. I do think it pairs very well with the DX50. Especially since you prefer a slightly warm sound, I think you'd like the C5. Maybe it's not overly warm, but it's definitely not on the cold side. 
  
 Going back and forth between the DX50 and C5, the hiss is quite unbearable on the DX50... No arguing that the C5 excels in that department.


----------



## howdy

marleybob217 said:


> While I haven't heard the D42, and do not find the C5 to be ideal in my setup. I do think it pairs very well with the DX50. Especially since you prefer a slightly warm sound, I think you'd like the C5. Maybe it's not overly warm, but it's definitely not on the cold side.
> 
> Going back and forth between the DX50 and C5, the hiss is quite unbearable on the DX50... No arguing that the C5 excels in that department.


 
 So you are saying that theC5 is better with the DX50 for the hiss issue. I have not heard any hiss on my DX50 yet.


----------



## Marleybob217

howdy said:


> So you are saying that theC5 is better with the DX50 for the hiss issue. I have not heard any hiss on my DX50 yet.


 
 If you are using sensitive IEMs, there definitely is a hiss coming from the DX50. With my particular cIEMs it's really quite apparent. But if you're not having any hiss issues, that's one less reason to use the C5 with the DX50. The DX50 is actually really good just by itself.


----------



## howdy

marleybob217 said:


> If you are using sensitive IEMs, there definitely is a hiss coming from the DX50. With my particular cIEMs it's really quite apparent. But if you're not having any hiss issues, that's one less reason to use the C5 with the DX50. The DX50 is actually really good just by itself.


 
 I actually have been using my Vsonic VSD1S which are cheap but sound really good with the DX50, I hear some slight hiss with my X3 on certain songs with my GR07BE. They are both great DAPs by them selves.


----------



## grandmike

ostewart said:


> The software part is to change the volume steps and LED, the bass boost is hardware. Changing some resistors will change the bass boost, you'll have to talk to John at JDS about it.
> 
> There's a surprise in store from JDS Labs, coming next month.




Yeah tell me about it .. much like to know


----------



## miceblue

Just speculation, but I wonder if it's a portable DAC/amp. The combo seemed to be requested by some people when the C5 was announced.


----------



## luisdent

miceblue said:


> Just speculation, but I wonder if it's a portable DAC/amp. The combo seemed to be requested by some people when the C5 was announced.


 
  
 That would be really awesome.  I've love something like that for when I'm on someone else's computer and they have  a junk dac...


----------



## Marleybob217

grandmike said:


> Yeah tell me about it .. much like to know


 
 The C5D is coming, it has an output impedance of 0.62. I'm not sure if it's different in any other way than the C5


----------



## miceblue

luisdent said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > Just speculation, but I wonder if it's a portable DAC/amp. The combo seemed to be requested by some people when the C5 was announced.
> ...


 


marleybob217 said:


> grandmike said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah tell me about it .. much like to know
> ...


 
 Oooh snaaaaap! From their latest blog post:


> We’re running half staff today and tomorrow while JDS Labs presents at CanJam. If you’re anywhere near Denver this weekend, CanJam at Rocky Mountain Audio Fest is the place to be. Check out our booth for freebies and a first look at our upcoming amp + DAC.


----------



## ostewart

Yeah the D is for the DAC 

Can't wait


----------



## ThurstonX

Damn, just when I thought I was out.... they keep pulling me back in!!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Excuse #1: Wife really likes the AKG Q701, but it needs an amp.  The DAC in her laptop is crap.  Solution: C5D


----------



## Marleybob217

I'm selling my C5 as well. Asking €125 since it's only 5 days old, and I can still send it back for a refund. But It has to go back to Spain.
  
 Anyone interested in the C5? Would probably be cheaper if you're from Europe.


----------



## Marleybob217

Sorry for the spam, but here is my classified:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/687976/jds-labs-c5-headphone-amplifier
  
 If I haven't sold it in a couple of days I need to return it to heapdhoniaks for a refund.


----------



## Punnisher

Why are you all selling this amp so quickly? If I didn't already have an RSA Tomahawk I would buy one in a heartbeat.


----------



## chengsta

mrspeaker said:


> There's still a C5 in the classifieds for 120 EUR (http://www.head-fi.org/t/687307/fs-minty-jds-labs-c5), which is very tempting, but my question is: will I have any benefit with the C5 + FiiO X3? X3's amp is very powerful, lots of volume and bass and sounds very very good. Would I still benefit from a C5 with this player? I mean, could the C5 be a better amp than the X3?


 
 You will benefit if you are a bass head.  The bass on the x3 to the c5 sounds superb.  If you try to get high bass levels with just the x3, there will be a lot of muddiness and warmpth.


----------



## Marleybob217

punnisher said:


> Why are you all selling this amp so quickly? If I didn't already have an RSA Tomahawk I would buy one in a heartbeat.


 
 It's simply too big for my train hopping adventures. 
  
 The C5 is quite bulky when stacked on the DX50.


----------



## miceblue

Well the C5 and iPhone 4S pair quite nicely with the Alpha Dog. Not bad. Not bad at all. The O2 just has a little more bass rumble next to the C5, and the previously mentioned larger soundstage and laid-back mids.


----------



## luisdent

miceblue said:


> Well the C5 and iPhone 4S pair quite nicely with the Alpha Dog. Not bad. Not bad at all. The O2 just has a little more bass rumble next to the C5, and the previously mentioned larger soundstage and laid-back mids.



Nice rig. Is that an a/b switch in the middle? Where did you get it. I was gonna make one myself, because i can't find one.


----------



## miceblue

Yup that's an A/B/C/D-er. It's the FiiO HS2, but they no longer make it. I got it for ~$20 USD from a vendor and they sold out. You might be able to find one on eBay.


----------



## boyssboyssg

Anyone tried opa2228 ?


----------



## ThurstonX

miceblue said:


> Yup that's an A/B/C/D-er. It's the FiiO HS2, but they no longer make it. I got it for ~$20 USD from a vendor and they sold out. You might be able to find one on eBay.


 
  
 Not $20, but here ya go.  I was tempted, but seems you really want it, lusident.
  
 LOL, seems there are two.


----------



## ThurstonX

oops.


----------



## zazex

miceblue said:


> Well the C5 and iPhone 4S pair quite nicely with the Alpha Dog. Not bad. Not bad at all. *The O2 just has a little more bass rumble next to the C5, and the previously mentioned larger soundstage and laid-back mids.*


 
  
  
 ...and slightly more laid back treble as well.
 In all, to my ears, a better sounding amp all around.


----------



## luisdent

thurstonx said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > Yup that's an A/B/C/D-er. It's the FiiO HS2, but they no longer make it. I got it for ~$20 USD from a vendor and they sold out. You might be able to find one on eBay.
> ...


 
  
 That's excellent.  I think I might still build my own for fun.  So I'll pass on that one, but it's good to know it might popup on ebay now and then.


----------



## shakur1996

One of "professional" reviewers on our local, Polish audio forum claims that this Fiio device interrupts the audio signal and thus it is actually useless for testing purposes; it's it not transparent/objective. For example for him some naturally worser headphones (in terms of technical capabilities) and the sound) sounded better from this Fiio device than other headphones which are naturally superior (in terms of technical capabilities and the sound); the same related to the amps. I was initially interested in this Fiio device but after this review I resigned from its purchase.
AFAIK the problem with this Fiio device was crosstalk.


----------



## SkyBleu

Here's my C5 rig


----------



## ostewart

Neat rig!


----------



## SkyBleu

ostewart said:


> Neat rig!


 
 Cheers


----------



## luisdent

skybleu said:


> Here's my C5 rig


 
 Which interconnect cable is that.  Looks awesome.


----------



## luisdent

shakur1996 said:


> One of "professional" reviewers on our local, Polish audio forum claims that this Fiio device interrupts the audio signal and thus it is actually useless for testing purposes; it's it not transparent/objective. For example for him some naturally worser headphones (in terms of technical capabilities) and the sound) sounded better from this Fiio device than other headphones which are naturally superior (in terms of technical capabilities and the sound); the same related to the amps. I was initially interested in this Fiio device but after this review I resigned from its purchase.
> AFAIK the problem with this Fiio device was crosstalk.


 
  
 I was worried about that, and are there any components inside other than a switch?  They could be altering impedance which could vary the sound of each headphone...  I'm going to build a simple switch with direct wiring to each input jack.  There will be nothing to degrade the sound.  No digital switch components or anything that could alter the signal.  Something like this:
  
 http://redsecta.wordpress.com/2010/12/09/making-a-passive-headphone-or-source-switcher/


----------



## miceblue

shakur1996 said:


> One of "professional" reviewers on our local, Polish audio forum claims that this Fiio device interrupts the audio signal and thus it is actually useless for testing purposes; it's it not transparent/objective. For example for him some naturally worser headphones (in terms of technical capabilities) and the sound) sounded better from this Fiio device than other headphones which are naturally superior (in terms of technical capabilities and the sound); the same related to the amps. I was initially interested in this Fiio device but after this review I resigned from its purchase.
> AFAIK the problem with this Fiio device was crosstalk.



When I used the HS2, I heard the same differences as I noted in my C5 review between it and the O2. Likewise for the C5 and E12.

Without using the switcher, although switching by hand takes a while, I noted the same differences when using the Alpha Dog.


----------



## SkyBleu

http://myworld.ebay.com.au/onest11/



luisdent said:


> Which interconnect cable is that.  Looks awesome.




Cheers, its a pure silver cable made by Onest11 on eBay


----------



## luisdent

skybleu said:


> http://myworld.ebay.com.au/onest11/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Excellent.  They look like nice cables.


----------



## luisdent

Hackin' a c5 to make something. . Hopefully it works haha


----------



## boyssboyssg

What u intend to mod this amp into ? Android dac?


----------



## luisdent

boyssboyssg said:


> What u intend to mod this amp into ? Android dac?




Ha. I'm not that good. Im really just using the case to make an abx box to test different audio sources quickly. . Nothing as cool as a dac.


----------



## palermo

here is C5D, it's kinda perfect for me to pair phonak pfe132

http://www.jdslabs.com/products/84/c5d-amplifier-dac/

 - asynchronous USB 24/96 > I thought it was TAS1020B implementation.  
 - PCM5102A
 - 0.62Ohm output impedance
 - $249


----------



## miceblue

Oh my gosh that new logo looks awesome.


----------



## d marc0

Oh man! I want one...


----------



## kskwerl

my JDS Labs C5 is up for sale


----------



## BB 808

I want to buy it now, but when I add it to the cart...nothing


----------



## miceblue

It works just fine for me.


I probably won't buy one considering I already use the C5 as my 2nd best amp with the ODAC, and my best portable amp. It sure looks nice though. I noticed the specifications between the C5 and the amp section of the C5D are a little different. It's also nice that JDS Labs took in the feedback from customers and added a 3-way bass boost instead of the C5's 2-way one.

Kudos to JDS Labs for incorporating customer feedback into there products!

The re-designed website looks much slicker too. The old website was starting to look a bit outdated. The only problems I have with the new layout are the bright colours and the cheesy marketing (let's face it though, a lot of companies have this kind of marketing).


----------



## ostewart

3 place bass switch! Off, Med and High. Looks awesome


----------



## BB 808

miceblue said:


> It works just fine for me.
> 
> 
> I probably won't buy one considering I already use the C5 as my 2nd best amp with the ODAC, and my best portable amp. It sure looks nice though. I noticed the specifications between the C5 and the amp section of the C5D are a little different. It's also nice that JDS Labs took in the feedback from customers and added a 3-way bass boost instead of the C5's 2-way one.
> ...




Must be the dang Internet Explorer IE8 here at work. They won't let us use anything else here so I will have to wait until I get home. I love my C5. I thought about getting the ODAC Combo, but it's too big...


----------



## kskwerl

output impedance is a lot lower on the C5D


----------



## ClieOS

I am wondering whether the amp section has any significant change or not.


----------



## jseaber

bb 808 said:


> I want to buy it now, but when I add it to the cart...nothing


 
  
 Could you PM or email us more information (screenshot)?
  
 We have a C5D release article ready to go. It will be published as soon as we're confident the site launch is running smoothly.


----------



## ThurstonX

FYI: the image in the C5D Instruction Sheet PDF (linked on the web site) is of the C5.  Might want to update that.  Just sayin'  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 It's very tempting, esp. when it's $50 less expensive than I thought it would be.  The Chg/Bat switch is very handy for Android users with an OTG cable (and others, too, I guess), as I've read about the need to disabling charging on, e.g., FiiO's similar product when using it with OTG.


----------



## jseaber

thurstonx said:


> FYI: the image in the C5D Instruction Sheet PDF (linked on the web site) is of the C5.  Might want to update that.  Just sayin'
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the note. Updated!


----------



## ThurstonX

jseaber said:


> Thanks for the note. Updated!


 
  
 Happy to help!
  
 Since the case dimensions are the same as the C5, can we substitute our custom C5 cases with the C5D case, using the C5D end plates?


----------



## jseaber

thurstonx said:


> Happy to help!
> 
> Since the case dimensions are the same as the C5, can we substitute our custom C5 case with the C5D case, using the C5D end plates?


 
  
 Yes, that will work. Only the rear plate has changed in C5D.


----------



## ClieOS

The new site looks great btw.


----------



## d marc0

clieos said:


> The new site looks great btw.


 
 +1 I enjoy browsing through...


----------



## miceblue

I have a question, is there any advantage to listing the VRMS instead of the power output? Most people list the milliwatt power output, and is what I usually use for calculating how loud an amp can get with X headphone.

I remember *stv014* posting his calculations for the power output of the C5 at various impedances, and had to account for the current limit in those calculations, which I don't know how to factor in.



stv014 said:


> Those calculations are not quite right. First, 14.0 Vp-p is actually 4.95 Vrms, because 1 Vrms = 2 * sqrt(2) = 2.8284 Vp-p. Second, the method of linearly extrapolating power is wrong, because power is inversely proportional to the impedance with constant voltage. With your formula, the power output into loads above ~900 Ω would be negative, and into a near-infinite impedance open circuit, an extreme negative value.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jseaber

miceblue said:


> I have a question, is there any advantage to listing the VRMS instead of the power output? Most people list the milliwatt power output, and is what I usually use for calculating how loud an amp can get with X headphone.
> 
> I remember *stv014* posting his calculations for the power output of the C5 at various impedances, and had to account for the current limit in those calculations, which I don't know how to factor in.


 
  
 Listing output power in VRMS is technically more accurate. Headphones are reactive loads (resistance + capacitance + inductance), while power measurements are typically taken with dummy resistive loads. Power output differs between a 32 ohm dummy load and a 32 ohm headphone, or even from one 32 ohm headphone to another brand/model.
  
 Way too many calculations, above! Power in mW is a simple conversion if you wish. Plug in VRMS and R:
  
 Power = (V^2)/R


----------



## miceblue

jseaber said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > I have a question, is there any advantage to listing the VRMS instead of the power output? Most people list the milliwatt power output, and is what I usually use for calculating how loud an amp can get with X headphone.
> ...



Ah okay. That's good to know.

It looks like the C5D offers a little more power at 32 and 150 Ω compared to the C5.


----------



## jseaber

miceblue said:


> Ah okay. That's good to know.
> 
> It looks like the C5D offers a little more power at 32 and 150 Ω compared to the C5.


 
  
 It's the same circuit. Power is slightly higher due to lower output impedance; you shouldn't notice the difference.


----------



## luisdent

Excellent!  The custom bass boost lives!!!!  That's going to be amazing with iems like the er4s, etc.  Very nice.  The site looks awesome too.  I love the design, colors, etc.  Very very nice.  Awesome price point on the C5D.  Can't wait to hear one some day.  I love my C5 and use it exclusively with everything.


----------



## chengsta

I already have the C5, but I don't need a dac.  I may get it some day when I get my own house with no neighbors around so I can blast my speakers though.


----------



## Mix0r

Hey!

I've been lurking around many threads around here lately and finally decided to get C5 + ODAC, but then saw this wonder.

However, I am in the EU and would like to avoid import taxes - will your resellers get some C5D's anytime soon? If yes, where will they be available?


----------



## BB 808

jseaber said:


> Could you PM or email us more information (screenshot)?
> 
> We have a C5D release article ready to go. It will be published as soon as we're confident the site launch is running smoothly.




John, it's the IE8 we have at work and the restrictions the company put on our web browsing. The new website looks wonky at work (PC) but when I got home your website is so much better on my iMac. I was able to add it to the cart at home and am just building up the nerve to complete the transaction.


----------



## howdy

kskwerl said:


> my JDS Labs C5 is up for sale



That's frekkin hilarious, you are going through amps faster than heck... All part of the hobby. I received my BH2 today and I really like this little guy!


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

Would like to know as well when your distributors get this. Looks great


----------



## Spadge

I have no idea if this is useful or not, but I contacted an Australian reseller about the C5D and they said they would have stock in 'the next couple of weeks'


----------



## howdy

spadge said:


> I have no idea if this is useful or not, but I contacted an Australian reseller about the C5D and they said they would have stock in 'the next couple of weeks'



You can buy it right from there website for 253.23 shipped, and under 270 to Australia.


----------



## Spadge

howdy said:


> You can buy it right from there website for 253.23 shipped, and under 270 to Australia.




Thanks, I realise this, but several people were wondering when local (to them) retailers would have stock.


----------



## kskwerl

I know right its pretty awesome little amp!


----------



## rckyosho

Great to see this the C5D. I might just get one but my C5/UD100 amp dac mod is still going strong. Maybe I will just for fun. It'd be nice if a short micro to mini otg cable is included with the C5D like what ibasso does with the dzero.


----------



## luisdent

I just posted a quick review of the C5 on my youtube channel for anyone interested in this amp.  Keep an eye on the channel because I'll be adding more videos soon with more specific details and sound review.
  
 C5 review:
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAXVyinIKvU
  
 My channel:
 http://www.youtube.com/user/dentReviews/videos
  
 I've had my C5 for a while and never want to listen to music without it.


----------



## fnkcow

Nice website revamp!
  
 But that new logo looks... nerdy. Looks like a science lab logo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Much prefer the old music logo that really goes well with the c5.
  
 Hopefully will get to hear impressions soon!


----------



## ostewart

Blog entry: http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=722


----------



## miceblue

Wow. That is just so cool. I absolutely love reading JDS Labs' blog posts because of the sheer amount of information provided. I've always wondered how an external DAC receives power.

Also yay for making sense:


> But ultimately, you can’t utilize 32/384 audio when your music collection is the bottleneck. It makes perfect sense from a marketing standpoint to enable the latest features on a new device. Fortunately, we’re engineers and not marketers



I'm still puzzled as to why people insist on getting 32/384-compatible DACs when in reality there are hardly any albums that use that format.

Congratulations for the release, JDS Labs.


----------



## ostewart

Yeah I love the way they don't buy into all the high res compatibility. They would rather it functioned well at lower bit rate than sub-par at high.
They have tried really hard to squeeze everything they could out of the DAC for normal functionality.


----------



## ClieOS

Excellent spec wise and the use of ADuM3160 is great. More manufacturer should put USB isolation on their amp.


----------



## 214324

> C5D’s hardware actually supports DSD and 32-bit audio. _We disabled both._


 
 I'm just curious, but are we allowed to enable these through the Arduino code? I would guess so for those of us who are willing to.
  
 I don't see a point in doing it but for those who want some more e-peen...


----------



## ThurstonX

hybridcore said:


> I'm just curious, but are we allowed to enable these through the Arduino code? I would guess so for those of us who are willing to.
> 
> I don't see a point in doing it but for those who want some more e-peen...


 
  
 From a purely hypothetical POV, I'm curious as well.  My guess would be, No, it can't be enabled, as the C5D is a UAC1 device, and those features only become functional in a UAC2 device, and that would require drivers for Windows users (and portable devices, too, I'd guess).
  
 But that's just my guess after reading the blog.  Big thanks to Jon for posting the link to NwAvGuy's site re: bit-depth and noise.  Fascinating stuff.


----------



## luisdent

miceblue said:


> Wow. That is just so cool. I absolutely love reading JDS Labs' blog posts because of the sheer amount of information provided. I've always wondered how an external DAC receives power.
> 
> Also yay for making sense:
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've read a few articles that have shown that higher quality formats like that can actually sound worse than cd, because of the way some hardware interprets the data that it can't actually reproduce causing artifacts in the sound.  I'm not saying you can't have a dac/amp that shows the true sound, but even expensive ones usually aren't capable of the sound properties at the extreme frequencies and sample rates and thus that info is somehow turned into artifacts that effect the sound.
  
 The funny thing is that so many people worry about the technical capabilities of the format and hardware, which is good, however the mastering of the music makes a hundred times the difference.  Super audio CD was a good example.  The format was touted as so amazing, but I've heard a few SACDs that were actually worse than the original CDs, because the music was dynamically compressed and noise reduced which resulted in a squished muffled overall sound.  That happens a lot more than people like to admit in "audiophile" recordings.  However, I think the trend is slowly changing.  But the point is that I would get the best setup you can, but focus also on getting the best master of an album you can, which isn't always easy without hearing each version.  Remasters are not always better, and usually aren't.  So be wary.
  
 I personally like the approach jds labs takes with their equipment.  Make sure it is extremely high quality for the important aspects and then make it very compatible and user friendly.  That makes things easy and enjoyable, which is what music is for.  There are people who will want higher format specs, but I would just say they can get another setup.  For the rest, they get an amazing bang for their buck.  I can't believe the price really.  If you don't need a dac $60 or so is a good savings, but if you're not sure, $60 more is pretty cheap for an awesome dac to have in case you need it.
  


fnkcow said:


> Nice website revamp!
> 
> But that new logo looks... nerdy. Looks like a science lab logo
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's funny, I thought the old logo looked more like a science lab logo.  Ha.    The font and "look" is a lot like the equipments I actually support in my lab.  The new logo is more "modern" looking and cleaner.  But bother were good.  I think the new one is nice, because it can utilize less space if needed.


----------



## tvolpe1600

I am thinking of picking up a C5D for portable and travel use. It seems like such a solid product at a killer price point. [Sidebar: I'm not sure why competitors price similar units at $600-700. I assume those are geared towards balanced output for power hungry TOTL cans.]
  
 I plan to use them with my UE Triple.fi 10 IEMs on the road, my AKG702s at work, and occasionally at home with my HD650s. Any thoughts on how the C5D scales between IEMs and dynamics? I might also get a closed back dynamic HP for travel down the road.


----------



## Spadge

I've just ordered one to use with my Surface Pro2 on the go. Will be interesting to see how this compares to my AK100+2stepdance.

I was considering an AK10, but love my ODAC enough to support these guys


----------



## tvolpe1600

Yes, they seem to have a great following, and I really appreciate the level of transparency regarding technical specs and detail they put out on their blog.


----------



## ostewart

Mine will be shipped out next week, review will follow as usual


----------



## tvolpe1600

I just order the C5D as well. Looking forward to hearing that clean dead black background on my first battery powered amp/dac.


----------



## luisdent

tvolpe1600 said:


> I just order the C5D as well. Looking forward to hearing that clean dead black background on my first battery powered amp/dac.


 
  
 It's pretty dead.


----------



## luisdent

tvolpe1600 said:


> I am thinking of picking up a C5D for portable and travel use. It seems like such a solid product at a killer price point. [Sidebar: I'm not sure why competitors price similar units at $600-700. I assume those are geared towards balanced output for power hungry TOTL cans.]


 
  
 Because until JDS came along they didn't have competition, so they knew they "could" charge that.    haha.  Maybe JDS will skew the market prices now...
  
   


> Originally Posted by *tvolpe1600* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I plan to use them with my UE Triple.fi 10 IEMs on the road, my AKG702s at work, and occasionally at home with my HD650s. Any thoughts on how the C5D scales between IEMs and dynamics? I might also get a closed back dynamic HP for travel down the road


 

  
 I can tell you that the hd600 sounds awesome with the C5, and the C5D has basically the same amp section.  Plenty of power and they sound the best I've heard them with it.


----------



## tvolpe1600

@luisdent: Interesting - I was not aware that JDS was an early pioneer in the portable field (I'm relatively new to head fi). To be fair, there are a number of similar products at similar price points, but the market these days seems packed with ~$700 balanced portable amp/dacs.
  
 Great to hear that about the 600s! I'm excited to hear what the C5D sounds like with the 650s, especially in comparison to my home rig. I'll post comments in a few weeks. Now I just need to find a great pair of closed back dynamics for plane flights and public listening ...


----------



## luisdent

tvolpe1600 said:


> @luisdent: Interesting -* I was not aware that JDS was an early pioneer in the portable field* (I'm relatively new to head fi). To be fair, there are a number of similar products at similar price points, but the market these days seems packed with ~$700 balanced portable amp/dacs.
> 
> Great to hear that about the 600s! I'm excited to hear what the C5D sounds like with the 650s, especially in comparison to my home rig. I'll post comments in a few weeks. Now I just need to find a great pair of closed back dynamics for plane flights and public listening ...


 
  
 Not sure what you mean about early pioneer?
  
 As for the price range, I haven't heard anything as "reference" and flat in response ass the C5.  I think you need to go up in price to get an "equivalent" reference sound in a portable amp.  There may be some good amps in the price range, but most I've seen have a higher noise floor and/or coloration of the sound in some way, either due to frequency response or high output impedance with iems...  Or simply have something bad about them.  Nuttin' wrong with the C5.


----------



## miceblue

Other portable amps also advertise 1.21 GW of power to drive your super portable HE-6. *slight exaggeration*


----------



## luisdent

miceblue said:


> Other portable amps also advertise 1.21 GW of power to drive your super portable HE-6. *slight exaggeration*


 
  
 ;-P  Gotta love those "jigga" watts. ha


----------



## tvolpe1600

@luisdent: I misread your post. I see your point now. Scratch my comment/confusion about 'early pioneer'.
  
 @miceblue: Totally. I want a portable rig to be ... portable. That means I can take the associated headphones out of my house. I'm not taking a pair of HE-6 or LCD-3s (or even my 650s) on the plane for so many reasons. But I understand some people want a rig to take around the house, etc.
  
 But still, I can't wait for the forthcoming portable balanced amp powered by plutonium.


----------



## miceblue

Does the Apple Camera Connection Kit bypass the iDevice's internal DAC? If so, why don't people use this option instead of the "Apple certified" DAC/amp combos that cost $500+?


----------



## tvolpe1600

Good point. From what I understand, the CCK bypass option only just rolled out with iOS7 and you also need an iPhone5+ for the CCK.


----------



## JP78

I just ordered mine (C5D).  Woo-hoo!
  
 Sorry for taking up space to celebrate, but you guys know how it is - nobody else understands


----------



## tvolpe1600

Cheers! I'm looking forward to everyone's listening notes.


----------



## jseaber

miceblue said:


> Does the Apple Camera Connection Kit bypass the iDevice's internal DAC? If so, why don't people use this option instead of the "Apple certified" DAC/amp combos that cost $500+?


 
  
 Yes, the CCK bypasses the internal DAC and streams UAC1 (digital audio) to an external DAC.
  
 This wasn't possible until iOS7. Proprietary, Apple Certified DACs are no longer necessary.


----------



## imackler

jseaber said:


> Yes, the CCK bypasses the internal DAC and streams UAC1 (digital audio) to an external DAC.
> 
> This wasn't possible until iOS7. Proprietary, Apple Certified DACs are no longer necessary.


 
 So...this won't work on Classic but on any device with iOS7? I only have a classic but this is still tremendous news for any one linked to the apple platform. 
  
 Does anyone know whether I can get a touch and make this happen (I don't have an iphone)? I've wanted to bypass the Ipod's dac and now, for the first time since 5 years in headfi, there is a portable _affordable _option. I'm so stoked.


----------



## tvolpe1600

Yes indeed! I almost moved to Android because Apple's proprietary lock on everything in their chain was starting to become a bit much. This is a huge move and makes the JDS C5D an essential buy in my opinion for the iDevice user - a series coup d'état for JDS in this market. Previously you had to pay around $500-700 for a portable DAC compatible with iDevices. $250 for a serious piece of hardware!? Done.
  
 The iDevice needs iOS7, so an old classic iPod won't work, but any current generation iPhone / iPad / iPod will work for sure. In addition to having iOS7, these all have Lightening USB ports that can handle the Camera Connection Kit. Open question as to whether the previous generation traditional 30-pin usb port iDevices with iOS7 are compatible (e.g. an iPhone 4s running iOS7). They are. JDS Blog links to the CCK for 30 pin USB previous generation iDevices: http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=722


----------



## JP78

Does anybody know if the internal DAC on the iPod Classic can be bypassed by replacing the Apple firmware with Rockbox?


----------



## miceblue

tvolpe1600 said:


> Yes indeed! I almost moved to Android because Apple's proprietary lock on everything in their chain was starting to become a bit much. This is a huge move and makes the JDS C5D an essential buy in my opinion for the iDevice user - a series coup d'état for JDS in this market. Previously you had to pay around $500-700 for a portable DAC compatible with iDevices. $250 for a serious piece of hardware!? Done.
> 
> The iDevice needs iOS7, so an old classic iPod won't work, but any current generation iPhone / iPad / iPod will work for sure. In addition to having iOS7, these all have Lightening USB ports that can handle the Camera Connection Kit. Open question as to whether the previous generation traditional 30-pin usb port iDevices with iOS7 are compatible (e.g. an iPhone 4s running iOS7). They are. JDS Blog links to the CCK for 30 pin USB previous generation iDevices: http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=722



Is this for certain? Maybe it's just that Apple hasn't updated their product details, but the original 30-pin CCK was for the iPad. I recall a thread for iPad + CCK-compatible DACs, but not other iDevice.


----------



## tvolpe1600

Yep. JDS confirmed this a few posts ago. If the device has iOS7 + CCK, then it will work.


----------



## ostewart

Rockboxed doesn't allow Digital audio out. Just normal line-out.


----------



## JP78

Pity. Thanks for the clarification ostewart.


----------



## Ultrainferno

tvolpe1600 said:


> The iDevice needs iOS7, so an old classic iPod won't work, but any current generation iPhone / iPad /* iPod *will work for sure.


 
   
Is this confirmed?


----------



## miceblue

I think iPod Touch was what was supposed to be said. iPod Touches can use iOS 7.

But anywho, thanks for the clarification everyone. That's just awesome! I think the C5D is the first DAC [and amp] to be advertised to work with iOS 7 + CCK devices! I think I know what to do with my Best Buy gift card finally. ^_^


----------



## Mix0r

ostewart said:


> Rockboxed doesn't allow Digital audio out. Just normal line-out.




Going by this, can I still play music without using the DAC in the C5D? Using an LOD from my ipod that is, so that I only use the amp part of the C5D..?


----------



## ThurstonX

mix0r said:


> Going by this, can I still play music without using the DAC in the C5D? Using an LOD from my ipod that is, so that I only use the amp part of the C5D..?


 
  
Look here.
  
CONNECTIVITY 
Analog Input3.5mm​
  
 DAC is only active if you connect a UAC1 output to the C5D's USB input.


----------



## Mix0r

thurstonx said:


> Look here.
> 
> CONNECTIVITY
> 
> ...




Thanks alot! Wasn't completely sure and wanted a 'personal' confirmation.

Another question: what about the C5D's DAC? I am aware that there are no reviews as of now, but is it (spec wise) better than, for example C5 + ODAC?


----------



## tvolpe1600

Yes, I meant to specify iPod Touches that use iOS7.


----------



## xuan87

Does anyone know where I can get a short (1 inch to 1.5 inch) right angled mini to micro usb cable? I plan to stack my phone on top of the C5D and use the cable to connect them together. Any longer in the length and the cable will jut out from the width of the stack and render it "unpocketable". I've searched around on google and while there are a few custom usb cable makers, they are unable to make the length as short as I want it.


----------



## kskwerl

With the charging light indicator. Well its charging its blue..but how will I know when its fully charged?


----------



## miceblue

kskwerl said:


> With the charging light indicator. Well its charging its blue..but how will I know when its fully charged?



If you're just charging it, the blue light should turn off when it's fully charged.

I'm not sure what happens if it's done charging charging it and you're using it at the same time. When I have it charging and it's turned on, the both the green and blue LEDs turn on and the resulting light is a light-blue colour.


----------



## kskwerl

miceblue said:


> If you're just charging it, the blue light should turn off when it's fully charged.
> 
> I'm not sure what happens if it's done charging charging it and you're using it at the same time. When I have it charging and it's turned on, the both the green and blue LEDs turn on and the resulting light is a light-blue colour.




nice thanks I appreciate it


----------



## miceblue

kskwerl said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > If you're just charging it, the blue light should turn off when it's fully charged.
> ...



Wow, I didn't realise how poorly worded my previous post was until now. XD

I just charged the C5 while having it on. Once it's done charging, the blue LED turns off while the green one stays on.


----------



## kskwerl

miceblue said:


> Wow, I didn't realise how poorly worded my previous post was until now. XD
> 
> I just charged the C5 while having it on. Once it's done charging, the blue LED turns off while the green one stays on.




haha yea you kind of butchered that by I got the jist of it


----------



## Ultrainferno

xuan87 said:


> Does anyone know where I can get a short (1 inch to 1.5 inch) right angled mini to micro usb cable? I plan to stack my phone on top of the C5D and use the cable to connect them together. Any longer in the length and the cable will jut out from the width of the stack and render it "unpocketable". I've searched around on google and while there are a few custom usb cable makers, they are unable to make the length as short as I want it.


 

 Tried DX.com?


----------



## kskwerl

ultrainferno said:


> Tried DX.com?






try Brian at BTG audio I know he makes them and they're 35 bucks


----------



## xuan87

kskwerl said:


> try Brian at BTG audio I know he makes them and they're 35 bucks


 
  
 Oh yea! I forgot about BTG audio. He makes analog cables though so I'm not sure if he had tried usb cables before. Will email him to ask. Thanks!


----------



## baydude

Will the C5D DAC work w/ the Galaxy S4?


----------



## BB 808

jseaber said:


> Yes, the CCK bypasses the internal DAC and streams UAC1 (digital audio) to an external DAC.
> 
> This wasn't possible until iOS7. Proprietary, Apple Certified DACs are no longer necessary.


 
 John, is it possible to request a modification where the micro usb is replaced by a USB Type A?  I would like to use this short lightning to USB connector to make everything more portable.


----------



## SoulSyde

^ +1


----------



## Apo0th3karY

Wow. I come back to Head-fi after about 6 month hiatus and my wallet is already regretting it. 

Been loving my BH for a while, but that point of diminishing returns has been leaving me lusting over a C5 which was released a month or so before I left head-fi for financial reasons (hah), and now there's this C5D, which will save me the headache of that rare time I'm forced to use my laptops headphone-out (I'm entirely portable headphone listener, until I'm home, then my montors are going).

Well look at that! I get paid this week! 

What's that, conscience? 
Christmas shopping? That's reserved for the 20th-24th of December! 
Silly conscience.


----------



## jseaber

bb 808 said:


> John, is it possible to request a modification where the micro usb is replaced by a USB Type A?  I would like to use this short lightning to USB connector to make everything more portable.


 
  
 Modding the jack would require a (minor) redesign of the board. Custom cables would be a better solution from our perspective, and we're looking into that.
  


kamijoismyhero said:


> Would like to know as well when your distributors get this. Looks great


 
  
 Initial shipments of C5D depart to the following distributors early this week, with typical delivery time of 3-6 days:
  

Headphone Bar / Canada
Noisy Motel / Australia
Munkong Gadget / Thailand
Headfonia Store / Indonesia
Kingsound Audio / Hong Kong
Headsound Audio / Germany
  
 Samples to reviewers also depart tomorrow.


----------



## SoulSyde

jseaber said:


> Modding the jack would require a (minor) redesign of the board. Custom cables would be a better solution from our perspective, and we're looking into that.




If you could create a mini USB to lightning cable that is the same length as the V-Moda Tuono that would be a win.


----------



## jseaber

soulsyde said:


> If you could create a mini USB to lightning cable that is the same length as the V-Moda Tuono that would be a win.


 
  
 Noted!


----------



## miceblue

Or perhaps a right-angled one to reduce strain on the cable. I purposely don't use my FiiO L3 line out dock cable because it kept getting caught on something since it sticks out so far from my devices. The L9 line out dock is much more usable in that regards.


----------



## SoulSyde

miceblue said:


> Or perhaps a right-angled one to reduce strain on the cable. I purposely don't use my FiiO L3 line out dock cable because it kept getting caught on something since it sticks out so far from my devices. The L9 line out dock is much more usable in that regards.




The only issue with a right angle is the access to the volume pot or headphone jack.


----------



## Apo0th3karY

So just to confirm, my 2nd Gen iPod touch (iOS 5.x I think?) will NOT support the UAC1 DAC section of the C5D? It's only iOS7 devices with the CCK?


----------



## jseaber

apo0th3kary said:


> So just to confirm, my 2nd Gen iPod touch (iOS 5.x I think?) will NOT support the UAC1 DAC section of the C5D? It's only iOS7 devices with the CCK?


 
  
 Correct, iOS7 is required.


----------



## miceblue

soulsyde said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > Or perhaps a right-angled one to reduce strain on the cable. I purposely don't use my FiiO L3 line out dock cable because it kept getting caught on something since it sticks out so far from my devices. The L9 line out dock is much more usable in that regards.
> ...



Mhmm, good point, but only in certain configurations. On the other hand, the mini-USB port is on the other end of the C5, so volume control blocking shouldn't be a problem there. 

Speaking of the L3 though, I can't seem to find mine. 

With my configuration of the L9, the volume control is perfectly intact and easy-to-access.

^ No I don't actually use the 6.3 mm to 3.5 mm adaptor, I just put it in there to demonstrate that it fits in the L9's loop.


----------



## Apo0th3karY

Shucks. I doubt my 2nd gen iPod touch will support such a glorious OS too.....

Oh well, the amp section will be fine *for now*. I MIGHT have to get a new iPod to support iOS7 and take full advantage of the C5D... XD


.......this is why I regret coming back to head-fi. My poor wallet....


----------



## SoulSyde

miceblue said:


> Mhmm, good point, but only in certain configurations. On the other hand, the mini-USB port is on the other end of the C5, so volume control blocking shouldn't be a problem there.
> .




Oops, that was a space cadet moment for me. It's late and I've had a long day. Going to bed.


----------



## miceblue

apo0th3kary said:


> Shucks. I doubt my 2nd gen iPod touch will support such a glorious OS too.....
> 
> Oh well, the amp section will be fine *for now*. I MIGHT have to get a new iPod to support iOS7 and take full advantage of the C5D... XD
> 
> ...



There's nothing wrong with a 2nd gen iPod Touch though. Jailbreak + Activator for physical media button controls = WIN!
I still have my 2nd gen iPod Touch and it can only run up to iOS 4.2.1.

Also don't forget about SBsettings: the control center before iOS 7's Control Center.


----------



## ariesq

I know it was mentioned that the original C5 did not have enough power for the LCD-2/3. Is this still the case for the new more efficient LCD-X/XC?


----------



## xuan87

miceblue said:


> Mhmm, good point, but only in certain configurations. On the other hand, the mini-USB port is on the other end of the C5, so volume control blocking shouldn't be a problem there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 This is the perfect example of a compact stack that is pocketable. I hope to achieve that with my smartphone and the CD5, hence looking for a suitable cable (right angle mini to micro usb cable). I believe JDS stated on their blog that they are currently looking for a cable supplier to provide custom short cables so I'm hopeful that I will be able to get one from them together with the C5D.
  
 BTW, your end plates are black, you got it customized?


----------



## miceblue

xuan87 said:


> BTW, your end plates are black, you got it customized?



I actually ordered the C5 with the default silver endplates.

One day, when leaving the C5 unattended in my jean pocket, I scratched the silver endplates pretty bad with my iPhone on accident (the iPhone seemed unscathed in comparison). JDS Labs generously sent me a pair of black endplates. From then on out, I've been using the black endplates on the C5 and they don't seem to show scratches as easily. On the other hand, if it does get scratched, the black gets rubbed off, revealing the silver metal under it.

I only have minor scratches on my black endplates. This is the largest one and it's probably due to a metal keyring in my backpack.


Silver endplate after iPhone in pocket fiasco.


----------



## luisdent

xuan87 said:


> > Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> >
> >
> >
> ...


 
  
 Exactly my setup, but with the sansa fuze or ipod touch.  Love it.  Easy volume access.  Easy to hold in one hand.  My fiio cable crapped out on the cheap ipod connector side though, so I got a BTG ipod cable per John at the time who was scoping out cable providers.  A little pricey to me, but for what it is, it's much more flexible and seems more durable and high quality.  Either way, the c5 is great.  And john offered black plates last time I checked if you ask for them.
  
 On another note, here's my a/b audio switch so far using my spare C5 case.  Had to use a dremel to make the input jack holes a touch bigger.  Everything closes nicely and the switching is working.  I just need to isolate the soldered pins from the case (tight fit) and connect the input ground to the case.  Woohoo!


----------



## miceblue

luisdent said:


> On another note, here's my a/b audio switch so far using my spare C5 case.  Had to use a dremel to make the input jack holes a touch bigger.  Everything closes nicely and the switching is working.  I just need to isolate the soldered pins from the case (tight fit) and connect the input ground to the case.  Woohoo!
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Photos



Hey that's a pretty nice-looking AB-box...or a black box if you will. 
It actually looks a lot simpler than I thought it would be.

You should post it in the "post pics of your builds" thread.


----------



## Apo0th3karY

miceblue said:


> There's nothing wrong with a 2nd gen iPod Touch though. Jailbreak + Activator for physical media button controls = WIN!
> I still have my 2nd gen iPod Touch and it can only run up to iOS 4.2.1.
> 
> Also don't forget about SBsettings: the control center before iOS 7's Control Center.


 
  
 True, I have zero complaints about my iPod touch, but if I want to make use of the DAC part of the C5D while out and about, then I'd need to upgrade my iPod to one of these new fangled lightning connector iOS7 compatible guys... I guess the Classics won't be compatible in that case considering they don't run iOS 7... unless they are, then this is good news, but from what I've read on the compatibility area on the site, not so.

 I honestly might just use 'getting a new iPod touch', as an excuse (eventually) to 'lessen' the point of diminishing returns on the C5D... Otherwise, I'd only make use of the DAC when I'm actually using headphones at my computer, which isn't often. I still feel like it'd be very worth the extra money to get the C5D over the C5 for the bass boost alone; but that's me. 
  
 I'm so glad I didn't get a headstage arrow before discovering this.


----------



## luisdent

miceblue said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > On another note, here's my a/b audio switch so far using my spare C5 case.  Had to use a dremel to make the input jack holes a touch bigger.  Everything closes nicely and the switching is working.  I just need to isolate the soldered pins from the case (tight fit) and connect the input ground to the case.  Woohoo!
> ...


 
  
 Thanks.  I'll do that.  The photos don't show the ground connection or the tape finishing on the terminals.  I'll probably do a tutorial too.  It's was pretty easy.  The hardest part was soldering the tiny pins on the mini switch by hand.  Ugh.  I melted a lead right out of the first switch.   $5 down the drain.  Lucky the new soldering iron is a million times better and i was able to do this switch with zero issues and much cleaner.


----------



## luisdent

luisdent said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > luisdent said:
> ...


 
  
 I finished the final touches of my switch and it works great.  Perfect audio quality and the switch is even quieter than I expected.  If you switch it more quickly it barely makes any audible noise.  Switch it slower and it's just a very small noise.  I've already started comparing things and am surprised that some things aren't as different sounding as I thought. haha.


----------



## Ultrainferno

C5D is postponed


----------



## Spadge

Any reason why? Or have they just run out?

mine was posted on Monday.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm sure John will do a communication if he thinks that's necessary


----------



## xuan87

Interesting... the blog post on the C5D was removed and the product listing is gone as well. The C5D in the treoo.com webshop in Singapore is showing a discount, extremely weird considering it's a new product.
  
 Maybe they found a design flaw that will require re-production?


----------



## zachgraz

xuan87 said:


> Interesting... the blog post on the C5D was removed and the product listing is gone as well. The C5D in the treoo.com webshop in Singapore is showing a discount, extremely weird considering it's a new product.
> 
> Maybe they found a design flaw that will require re-production?


 

 Could'nt find it on Treoo.com. Are you sure it is not the C5 which is indeed discounted ?


----------



## Mix0r

zachgraz said:


> Could'nt find it on Treoo.com. Are you sure it is not the C5 which is indeed discounted ?




I looked it up myself after seeing xuan87's post and it was indeed up there with a 50 singapore dollar (?) discount. Gone now, interesting ;p


----------



## jseaber

xuan87 said:


> Interesting... the blog post on the C5D was removed and the product listing is gone as well. The C5D in the treoo.com webshop in Singapore is showing a discount, extremely weird considering it's a new product.
> 
> Maybe they found a design flaw that will require re-production?


 
  
 Unfortunately, you are correct. We had nearly shipped to distributors when we caught a flaw that everyone had missed. Announcement has been posted here:
http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=818
  


> It’s with extreme disappointment that I must post this announcement: At about 1am this morning, we made the difficult decision to cancel all C5D shipments and pull the product from our store while we correct a flaw which did not appear under typical testing or listening conditions.
> 
> C5D prototyping began in March 2013. Production began over two months ago. We approved first-article samples based on the performance measurements published last Thursday. A few customers, along with Nick and I, have been enjoying C5D for months. C5D was also well received by visitors at CanJam 2013.
> 
> ...


----------



## ostewart

That's a real shame John. But these things happen and I think you made the right decision in cancelling all orders.

I'm sure you'll find the problem and get everything sorted soon.

Thanks for the update


----------



## SoulSyde

^ Well done John!  As a consumer, it's nice to see a business owner be as honest and transparent as you.


----------



## miceblue

Hm, that's sad to hear, but I think you made the right decision to provide the best product experience for the end consumer and at least you caught the flaw before it was widely distributed.

Perhaps there is a grounding issue? I have a grounding issue somewhere in my electrostatic headphone setup and it creates a quiet, low-frequency hum sound.


----------



## drm870

Looks like mine might have already shipped. If it has, I plan to keep it, given the nature of the flaw an all. (Low-level hums don't typically bother me.)
  
 That said...as a general rule, I'll repeat what you everyone else has said: You guys did the right thing, and the level of transparency you've had about the C5D's lack of transparency* (see what I did there? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) is to be commended. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
*Seriously, though, I don't mean to rub it in or anything; I just love wordplay!


----------



## Spadge

I certainly appreciate the honesty.

Mine has already shipped.... but I will be sure to take a listen before I make a decision on weather to send it back or not. My stone ears might not even hear anything.

Good luck in getting this fixed. Hopefully it's a simple mod that I can do without sending it back (wishful thinking!)

Paul


----------



## luisdent

That stinks.  But definitely good call on the action to cancel orders.


----------



## ThurstonX

Kudos, John, for absolutely making the right decision, no matter how bitter the pill.  It's integrity, attention to detail and high expectations for yourselves, not to mention this open and honest transparency to your customers, that makes for very loyal customers.  I know I'll always look to JDS Labs first when in the market for quality products.  I have no doubt you'll correct this problem.  I hope the release, when it comes, is a huge success.  If I can justify getting a C5D, I will.
  
 Not to be maudlin, but it's businesses, and people of integrity and drive like you, that make this country great (flame away, people).
  
 Seaber For President!
  
 (half joking


----------



## A1Dan

I own JDS Labs CmoyBB, O2 & ODAC. Was considering picking up a C5D. I still hope to buy one once it comes back on the market. To me JDS Labs stands for high quality products at a competitive price. So I've no doubt it's still going to be a top quality product once this issue is ironed out.


----------



## Apo0th3karY

Awwww no! Well this is a shame, but my wallet will thank me... 

John, any time frame on when the revised C5D might be ready? I can bide my time no matter what - quality control is more important than my impatience - just crossing my fingers they'll be ready by mid January so I can get myself a birthday present. 

And as much of a disappointment this news is, it'd be much more disappointing to have a 'flawed' product ship and potentially harm the products reputation


----------



## howdy

That's great to recall in order to achieve the highest quality product, it will cost a little up front, the end result is to gain trust in the consumer. I'm just hoping to read some sound quality differences between the C5 and the C5D, if any.


----------



## luisdent

apo0th3kary said:


> Awwww no! Well this is a shame, but my wallet will thank me...
> 
> *John, any time frame on when the revised C5D might be ready*? I can bide my time no matter what - quality control is more important than my impatience - just crossing my fingers they'll be ready by mid January so I can get myself a birthday present.
> 
> And as much of a disappointment this news is, it'd be much more disappointing to have a 'flawed' product ship and potentially harm the products reputation


 
  
 I'm guessing not, as he brought in some good minds to help troubleshoot.  They probably just need to isolate the issue, but since they may not know what the issue is yet it's anyone's guess how long it will take. :-/  But I think they're pretty smart, so.....
  
 From a business standpoint I realize this probably seems like a horrible event, and John's stomach probably churned when he had to make the decision.  However, if others have had anywhere near the experience I have with JDS, this is just one of those "oh well, $%1t happens" situations.  JDS "is" the audio company to go to for extremely high quality, affordable gear.  I think more and more people are finding that out and hopefully this won't make any impression on people other than that they are doing the absolute best for the customer as always...  I know I think highly of their service and would always go their before anywhere else.


----------



## tvolpe1600

Well this is a huge bummer. I was stoked to receive my C5D tomorrow. Still am. Will listen for this "-80db hum"...


----------



## Spadge

tvolpe1600 said:


> Well this is a huge bummer. I was stoked to receive my C5D tomorrow. Still am. Will listen for this "-80db hum"...




I'll be watching for your assessment very closely tomorrow


----------



## jseaber

apo0th3kary said:


> Awwww no! Well this is a shame, but my wallet will thank me...
> 
> John, any time frame on when the revised C5D might be ready? I can bide my time no matter what - quality control is more important than my impatience - just crossing my fingers they'll be ready by mid January so I can get myself a birthday present.
> 
> And as much of a disappointment this news is, it'd be much more disappointing to have a 'flawed' product ship and potentially harm the products reputation


 
  
 Today we spent more time communicating the issue and driving boards across the state than actually troubleshooting. We've eliminated the PCM5102A and its two 3.3V LDO's as noise sources, meaning the noise originates somewhere within the SA9027 supply circuitry. A few more tests tomorrow will reveal which power rail(s) are affected, and then we'll be able to isolate the specific cause and implement a solution. In case it gets more complicated, we have some very bright engineering minds helping out.
  
 I'm estimating 1-4 weeks, depending on severity of the fix. Once a fix is ready, our production shop can move swiftly.
  
 Quote:


luisdent said:


> From a business standpoint I realize this probably seems like a horrible event, and John's stomach probably churned when he had to make the decision.  However, if others have had anywhere near the experience I have with JDS, this is just one of those "oh well, $%1t happens" situations.  JDS "is" the audio company to go to for extremely high quality, affordable gear.  I think more and more people are finding that out and hopefully this won't make any impression on people other than that they are doing the absolute best for the customer as always...  I know I think highly of their service and would always go their before anywhere else.


 
  
 The past five days have been a rollercoaster. Thank you all for your support.
  


tvolpe1600 said:


> Well this is a huge bummer. I was stoked to receive my C5D tomorrow. Still am. Will listen for this "-80db hum"...


  
  
 In going through 30+ boards last night, the intensity varies from unit to unit. I found one much worse, which is good for troubleshooting...


----------



## tvolpe1600

spadge said:


> I'll be watching for your assessment very closely tomorrow


 
  
  


jseaber said:


> In going through 30+ boards last night, the intensity varies from unit to unit. I found one much worse, which is good for troubleshooting...


 
  
 I almost wish I hadn't signed onto the forums tonight. Then I could report back a true blind test. Given the effort JDS is going through to fix the problem in a transparent and honorable manner, I hesitate to respond back at all. But John's response here only reinforced his total commitment to this product, so I'll do my best to report back what I hear on my unit.
  
 I have everything ready to go for a thorough listening test when I get home from work. I have three platforms to run the C5D through its paces. For the combined amp and DAC, I will be using my (1) iPhone 5s with lossless files and (2) iMac / MacAir iOS rigs with Audirvana and hi res WAV files. On the pure amp side, I also just got a RCA to Mini from Blue Jeans Cable to hook the C5D up to my desktop DAC. Since the Firestone Tobby uses dual PCM1794s, I figured it would be an interesting comparison to the PCM5102As deployed in the C5D. John also noted there was no hum when using the analog input, so perhaps this is a good way to do blind A/B tests with the help of a friend.
  
 I will be focusing on my HD650s to get a read on how dynamic cans sound, but I suspect it will be my old trusty Ultimate Ears IEMs that detect the hum.
  
 Obviously, the crux of the issue for me is the whether the hum warrants a return. Stay tuned.


----------



## jseaber

*Update*: Noise source has been identified. Pesky regulator doesn't like our plentiful 5V supply regulation. I've tamed this part before. Possible substitute parts will arrive Next Day Air tomorrow.
  
 We'll know by this time tomorrow whether the fix is simple or complex.


----------



## tvolpe1600

Thanks for rapid progress updates!


----------



## tvolpe1600

_JDS: "The defect is a low level hum, below -80dB on most units (much quieter than a -60dB mute). Noise is entirely absent when operating only from the analog input, or when the DAC is paused or operating independently from the amp. Therefore, no one noticed all year."_
  
 I'm not surprised. I just spent the last three hours listening to my C5D in a number of configurations. Let me cut to the point. The defect on the C5D exists. But without knowing what to listen for, it might have taken me months to hear it. Why? I had to turn the volume all the way up in between tracks to hear the hum. Even then, it was barely noticeable on either of my dynamic cans (650s and AKG 702s), and was only an issue with IEMs at deafening volume. (Update: I'm not even sure this is the defect, which means I can't detect the hum all - this only strengthens my conclusions below.)
  
 The odd thing is, John claims that noise is absent (1) "when operating only from the analog input" and (2) "when the DAC is paused." I can readily attest to the first claim. I fed the C5D an analog source through the 3.5 in, and heard no hum at all as I turned the volume to maximum. I did start to hear odd attenuation clicks at the last stages, though.
  
 But I could only hear the hum when I paused the track and turned the amp volume all the way up. This is not a source / cable issue because I heard the same hum/distortion feeding the C5D DAC with digital streams from my iPhone5s (with CCK) and MacAir with Audirvana.
  
 The crucial point is that I can't hear that hum at normal listening levels during playback. Does the hum still exist at the lower volume levels? I suppose. Does the defect require an immediate return? Most certainly not. *The C5D sounds so spectacular that I am quite reluctant to part ways with it. *Would it be nice if this unit was fixed at some point in the next few months? Yes indeed.
  
 In sum, I can't emphasize enough that the defect is not a big deal.* *This only goes to underscore the total commitment to high quality that JDS is taking with the decision to cancel the roll out. I can only assume this decision had serious short term business ramifications. Based on the awesome music I've heard tonight through my 'defected' C5D, I do hope those ramifications turn out to be positive for JDS over the long run.
  
 Back to listening ...


----------



## luisdent

tvolpe1600 said:


> _JDS: "The defect is a low level hum, below -80dB on most units (much quieter than a -60dB mute). Noise is entirely absent when operating only from the analog input, or when the DAC is paused or operating independently from the amp. Therefore, no one noticed all year."_
> 
> I'm not surprised. I just spent the last three hours listening to my C5D in a number of configurations. Let me cut to the point. The defect on the C5D exists. But without knowing what to listen for, it might have taken me months to hear it. Why? I had to turn the volume all the way up in between tracks to hear the hum. Even then, it was barely noticeable on either of my dynamic cans (650s and AKG 702s), and was only an issue with IEMs at deafening volume.
> 
> ...


 
  
 This sounds like the c5.  No pun intended.
  
 I talked to john once, and correct me if I'm wrong john, but when the amp is muted you might get some sort of noise at high volume, but when you're playing music you shouldn't.  It has something to do with the way the amp is designed.  At least I think that's what he said.  I also hear click at the highest attenuation stages, but under "most" circumstances you'd be hurting your hearing at those volume levels.  But in the rare instance of a quiet passage and a volume change at the same time you can hear small digital blippy clicks.  So I don't "think" those anomalies are problems with the c5d...  But I could be wrong.


----------



## jseaber

Engineering has already identified and implemented a perfect solution. Parts arrive in the morning so that we can resume shipping promptly.
  
 We'll provide an easy exchange for the handful of folks who have already received C5D's.
  
 Look for an announcement in the morning.


----------



## luisdent

speedy.


----------



## miceblue

Wooly mammoth that was fast! Did you have to re-route components on the PCB or something? I remember having to do that because I accidentally grounded a through-hole component and had to re-order the PCB. XD


----------



## tvolpe1600

> So I don't "think" those anomalies are problems with the c5d...


 
  
 I think you are probably right. I listened as hard as I could for any 'hums' or distortion, and could only find the high volume issues. So perhaps I could not detect the defect after all. This only strengthens my conclusion: the 'defected' C5D sounds great right now.


----------



## jseaber

miceblue said:


> Wooly mammoth that was fast! Did you have to re-route components on the PCB or something? I remember having to do that because I accidentally grounded a through-hole component and had to re-order the PCB. XD


 
  
 I'm sure it was fast from your point of view 
  
 It took over 20 man-hours of measurement and dialogue between myself and two bright engineers, and much lost sleep. No drastic changes were necessary. Just one rail was thrown out of regulation due to the power hungry USB controller. We installed a significantly larger capacitor. The rail is now cleaner than ever.
  
 The worst part is the drama this has caused. That, and we have lots of assembled C5D's to disassemble...


----------



## kskwerl

I never knew who was John was before I bought my C5 but after reading this thread I have an even better impression of JDS Labs and what an awesome company it is. Just wanted to say that, its people like this guy that make Head-fi such a great community.


----------



## drm870

Received my C5D in the mail today. I tested it with my Mad Dog headphones and my RE-400 earphones. Everything is great with the Mad Dogs -- no hum present. It is noticeable with the RE-400's, though -- enough so that it could make listening to music with soft passages problematic for those with more sensitive IEMs (or for those who are particularly picky). Granted, the RE-400's are sensitive enough that there is a noticeable jump between having the volume all the way down (or silent, in other words) and having it one step up from that, so I'm not sure how representative my experience is.
  
 That said, the hum doesn't appear to change with volume, so I think tvolpe1600's observations may be something else. Also, what I'm hearing only lasts for about a second or two once audio output from the computer has stopped, which goes along with jseaber's note that it stops when the DAC is paused. Finally, what I'm hearing is not present when using it as an amp.
  
 So, then...I guess the question is: am I going to be sending mine back? I'm still undecided, but am honestly leaning toward "no" right now. The reason is that I bought these for my Mad Dog, which needs amplification to get as loud as I like and sound its best. I typically don't listen to headphones with an amp unless the pair I'm using really needs the extra power.
  
 In any case, major kudos to the folks at JDS Labs for how they've handled this. Your open communication and commitment to excellence puts many of your competitors to shame!


----------



## jseaber

drm870: Check your email, or see this morning's announcement. We're sending advance replacement C5Ds to everyone who ordered last week.
  
 Production is now perfect.


----------



## drm870

Okay, got the email. Seems like less of a hassle the way you guys are doing it (versus how other exchanges by other companies have been handled) than I had expected. Will email back.


----------



## miceblue

@ *jseaber*

This is slightly random, but what kind of finish does the black C5D have? I received the updated ODAC case today and it looks great! The case feels like a smooth/bumpy metal though; no chalkboard-like texture from the C5 nor a unidirectional grooved surface like the original ODAC case. It also seems to attract fingerprints more, but I don't mind too much.


----------



## baydude

jseaber

http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=722 states

"We met a few Android users at the 2013 CanJam who successfully used C5D natively (i.e., with any app). Some Android phones and tablets output UAC1 natively."

Do you have a list of Android phones capable of using the C5D with any apps? Or specifically if the Samsung Galaxy S4 will work?


----------



## jseaber

baydude said:


> @jseaber
> 
> http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=722 states
> 
> ...


 
  
 We're letting users compile the following list of natively compatible Androids, and will contribute as we gather information:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmKMthb_-pwCdGFYZTZ2bUd5bmNrMXc1NTlEaXVLWVE&usp=sharing#gid=0
  
 In the mean time, this thread reveals plentiful data:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/
  


miceblue said:


> @ *jseaber*
> 
> This is slightly random, but what kind of finish does the black C5D have? I received the updated ODAC case today and it looks great! The case feels like a smooth/bumpy metal though; no chalkboard-like texture from the C5 nor a unidirectional grooved surface like the original ODAC case. It also seems to attract fingerprints more, but I don't mind too much.


  
 That's the labor of OCD engineers and metal finishers here in the USA. Each case is bead blasted to our requirements in a custom, computer controlled rig. Then it's subjected to an extreme chemical process before anodizing. Full secrets here.


----------



## drm870

Cool! I _really_ like the finish the C5D has vs. the original C5. (I had a C5 some time ago that I ultimately sold...a decision I regretted until the C5D was announced.)
  
 Anyway, I feel like I should say that the remarks I posted regarding my C5D unit was not meant to be a negative review. Rather, it was my attempt to justify JDS Labs' decision to fix the issue for those who might be wondering if it was needed or necessary. That's why I posted my impressions despite the fact that the problem has been fixed.
  
 Just thought I should clarify, that's all.


----------



## Varoudis

C5 and c5d seems to be missing the rubber bands that you can found in other brands.
Where can i get some?


----------



## SoulSyde

varoudis said:


> C5 and c5d seems to be missing the rubber bands that you can found in other brands.
> Where can i get some?




http://www.ebay.com/itm/2X-Two-PCS-Fiio-Silicon-Rubber-Bands-MP3-Player-Headphone-Amplifier-Binding-/271184915068


----------



## FatalDestiny

Does anybody knows how the C5 compares to the Headstage Arrow 4N?


----------



## imackler

Can anyone comment on the C5 with the Westone 3? I was thinking with the recessed mids of the W3 the slightly forward mics of the C5 could be a great combo...


----------



## jseaber

varoudis said:


> C5 and c5d seems to be missing the rubber bands that you can found in other brands.
> Where can i get some?


 
  
 We have rubber bands in stock. Mention your request during checkout and we'll send a few for free. These will soon be part of standard packaging (not quite there yet).


----------



## Varoudis

jseaber said:


> We have rubber bands in stock. Mention your request during checkout and we'll send a few for free. These will soon be part of standard packaging (not quite there yet).




Will do right away! I just exchange email with you john but i wasnt aware of this,
Thanks.


----------



## miceblue

JDS Labs rubber bands? Sweet! I don't like to use those on my rig in order to keep it as clean-looking as possible, but I'll wear one instead.


----------



## Craigster75

I am catching up just today hearing about the C5D and have a few questions that I didn't see answered in the thread.  I hope some of you can assist me with these.
  
 To use as an amp/DAC with my Iphone, I noticed on the JDS Labs web site that CCK is required along with iOS7 which is already installed on my Iphone 4.  This is probably a silly question, but what is CCK?  
  
 The price says starting at $249.  What are the options that increase the price and is there a premium for Apple compatibility?
  
 What is the difference between the C5D and V-Moda Versa?  It is truly a lower cost alternative to Verza with similar features?  
  
 What is the power of the C5D in mw/channel?
  
 Is it powerful enough for respectable performance from Mad Dogs/Alpha Dogs?


----------



## miceblue

CCK = Camera Connection Kit (the thing that was originally sold for the iPad to allow you to connect USB devices and camera SD cards to your iPad)

iOS 7 compatibility works right from the get-go for the C5D. On their website, the price is fixed at $249 USD.

VERZA can charge the iDevice, C5D does not. VERZA has the docking system for METALLO, obviously the C5D does not. VERZA has the micro-USB port for Android devices and full-sized USB port for iOS devices, C5D only has a mini-USB port. VERZA has a 1-year limited warranty, C5D has a 2-year plan (both have great customer support, but from my experience, JDS Labs is much quicker and straightforward). VERZA has a power output of 260 mW at 32 Ω (iOS mode), C5D has 43.6 mW. VERZA has a run time of about 7 hours, C5D is listed at 7-12 hours. I can't tell you much about the VERZA's specifications since there are hardly any listed (just signal-noise ratio and "distortion") compared to the C5D. VERZA has optical out, C5D does not. C5D supports 24/96 playback, VERZA is unknown. C5D has a 3-way bass boost switch with published gains and frequencies, VERZA has 1 at an unknown gain and frequencies. VERZA has a 3D DSP feature, C5D does not. VERZA uses an "analog" potentiometer, C5D uses a re-programmable digital one. VERZA comes with the 30-pin iDevice-USB, micro-USB-micro-USB, and micro-USB-USB cables, C5D comes with a single 3-foot long mini-USB-USB cable. This isn't really a difference per se, but JDS Labs offers free laser etchings on the C5D, V-MODA does not.

As listed on their website:

Max Output @ 32Ω 1.182 VRMS = 43.66 mW
Max Output @ 150Ω 3.580 VRMS = 85.44 mW
Max Output @ 600Ω 4.146 VRMS = 28.64 mW

The original C5 is good enough with the Alpha Dog and Mad Dog, and the original C5 had a higher output impedance which decreased the power output at 32 Ω.


----------



## Craigster75

miceblue said:


> CCK = Camera Connection Kit (the thing that was originally sold for the iPad to allow you to connect USB devices and camera SD cards to your iPad)
> 
> iOS 7 compatibility works right from the get-go for the C5D. On their website, the price is fixed at $249 USD.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for the info.  Regarding the power output, isn't that *LESS* than most smartphones?


----------



## xuan87

Like to ask John if he has any updates on the various custom short USB cables that he plans to sell along with the JDS C5D? Know that he has other issues on his mind the last few days but whether I can get a short mini-USB to micro-USB cable is the only thing stopping me from getting the C5D.


----------



## miceblue

craigster75 said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > CCK = Camera Connection Kit (the thing that was originally sold for the iPad to allow you to connect USB devices and camera SD cards to your iPad)
> ...



Are the power output specifications of smartphones usually published? I can assure you the C5 gets louder than the iPhone 4S with my trusty Sennheiser CX-300 earphones. XD


----------



## jseaber

miceblue said:


> Are the power output specifications of smartphones usually published? I can assure you the C5 gets louder than the iPhone 4S with my trusty Sennheiser CX-300 earphones. XD


 
  
 They're not published. Most output <= 1.0VRMS, so C5D is stronger. The following sensitivity table is useful for determining headphone suitability:
  

dB/mW ↓Power (mW) Required for 115dB94125.99763.110031.610315.81067.91094112211511180.5


----------



## SkyBleu

jseaber said:


> We have rubber bands in stock. Mention your request during checkout and we'll send a few for free. These will soon be part of standard packaging (not quite there yet).


 
 Should send them to all the C5 owners who are using FiiO bands instead of JDS Labs bands! (AKA ME)


----------



## Varoudis

wiiiihooo  order placed!


----------



## Varoudis

Wow perfect news! Already shipped to MA!


----------



## Mix0r

varoudis said:


> Wow perfect news! Already shipped to MA!




Sweet, can we expect some form of review when it arrives? :3

Currently waiting for the distrubutor in Germany to get it in stock so I can order


----------



## baydude

Can the amp be bypassed on the c5d and used as dac only?


----------



## Varoudis

mix0r said:


> Sweet, can we expect some form of review when it arrives? :3
> 
> Currently waiting for the distrubutor in Germany to get it in stock so I can order




Ill do one of course but i think other people in the states will beat me to it!

The c5d is going to a different location than the one im at currently, ills ee it in a couple of weeks! Cant wait!


----------



## SoulSyde

baydude said:


> Can the amp be bypassed on the c5d and used as dac only?


 
  
 No.  Theres no line out.


----------



## jseaber

mix0r said:


> Sweet, can we expect some form of review when it arrives? :3
> 
> Currently waiting for the distrubutor in Germany to get it in stock so I can order


 
  
 Headsound Audio is on vacation and requested that we delay shipment until Nov 22. Expect arrival late next week.


----------



## Mix0r

jseaber said:


> Headsound Audio is on vacation and requested that we delay shipment until Nov 22. Expect arrival late next week.




Ah, well there goes any patience I had -.-, really feeling the urge to order directly from you guys

Thanks for the headsup though, ^^

edit: Alright I don't feel like waiting and would like to order directly from you despite the customs/import fees.
I just wonder if anyone could give some instructions on how the actual image for custom engraving should be like? I've read the FAQ regarding engraving on the jds website, and I've read somewhere that it should be in .pdf. Anything else? Colors? Does it matter if I choose a red or black C5D?

I apologize for the slightly annoying questions, but I have tried searching around for answers ):


----------



## jseaber

mix0r said:


> edit: Alright I don't feel like waiting and would like to order directly from you despite the customs/import fees.
> I just wonder if anyone could give some instructions on how the actual image for custom engraving should be like? I've read the FAQ regarding engraving on the jds website, and I've read somewhere that it should be in .pdf. Anything else? Colors? Does it matter if I choose a red or black C5D?
> 
> I apologize for the slightly annoying questions, but I have tried searching around for answers ):


 
  
 An optional engraving uploader will be added to the checkout process this week to minimize confusion. We accept any file format. Solid black-and-white images are preferred:
 IMAGE REQUIREMENTS 
*Color Depth: *Black-and-white or grayscale
*Resolution: *Vector, or minimum 600ppi (1 inch = 1*600 = 600 pixels)
  
 Dark colors of your image will be engraved and white areas will be ignored. Therefore, we do not recommend images with a colored background.


----------



## ThurstonX

jseaber said:


> An optional engraving uploader will be added to the checkout process this week to minimize confusion. We accept any file format. Solid black-and-white images are preferred:
> IMAGE REQUIREMENTS
> *Color Depth: *Black-and-white or grayscale
> *Resolution: *Vector, or minimum 600ppi (1 inch = 1*600 = 600 pixels)
> ...


 
  
 Is the printed/engraved color on both color cases still that white/off-white?  I assume so, but people might like to know.  They also might like to know that JDS does a *great* job with the engraving.  I love my custom C5 case.


----------



## jseaber

thurstonx said:


> Is the printed/engraved color on both color cases still that white/off-white?  I assume so, but people might like to know.  They also might like to know that JDS does a *great* job with the engraving.  I love my custom C5 case.


 
  
 Yes, all engraving on anodized aluminum produces a white color regardless of original surface color. Color is exactly what you see in our product photos.
  
 We've seen some really interesting artwork come through and may open a user photo gallery soon.


----------



## Mix0r

Thank you so much for the clarifications, ThurstonX and jseaber. Both the upload system and the gallery sounds great, I shall order as soon as the system comes online!


----------



## _js_

Hey everyone, I probably messed up by posting my review of the C5D as a separate thread ( http://www.head-fi.org/t/690778/jds-labs-c5d-headphone-amp-dac ).  I'm sorry if I should have posted it inside this thread.  Or should I have added it as a review to the Review's section of the forum?
  
 Please advise as to what I should do (if anything) and I apologize if I screwed up.
  
 I haven't gone through much of this thread so far, but I was wondering how people are finding the battery life of thier iPhone while using the C5D?  From my short time observing so far, I would say that it drains about 1 percent of the battery for every song.  Figuring that a song is 4 minutes, that's a totally playing time of 400 minutes, or about 6.5 hours or so.  That's way short of the playing time straight out of the iPhone.  I assume that the CPU has to work harder to route the digital stream through the Lightning port?  Or possibly my experience is unusual?  What are others finding?
  
 On another topic, I will be ordering some USB mini-B 5 pin plugs with solder connections from mouser to see how difficult it is to mod the CCK cable, how well it turns out, etc.  I will post my experiences here.
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## tvolpe1600

I also noticed that the battery on my iPhone 5s goes down pretty quick when connected via the CCK. The charger is turned off on my C5D, so it must be a result of the iPhone and CCK just sucking power. This is just a limit with the media player, not a problem with the C5D.


----------



## _js_

Yeah.  I didn't think that it was a problem with the C5D or anything.  I also figured it was just the CPU working a bit harder than using the onboard audio codec.  But it definitely is something worth noting and gathering data on.  Just how much battery life does your iPhone have when feeding the C5D?  It'd be good if we had a nice sampling of C5D owners reporting on this.  Perhaps people have already discussed this earlier?
  
 I still haven't read this thread from pg 96 on, but I will do so soon.


----------



## Mix0r

Order placed! I suspect I failed big time on the engraving part, but meh, it's the product that matters!
  
 Can't wait for my first amp(+dac) ^^
  
 Lastly, thanks again for your quick replies and for being awesome in general, @jseaber & Co!


----------



## drm870

Got my replacement in the mail yesterday; it sounds great. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 At any rate, I noticed when first plugging it in to my PC that my rig identified it as a "Speakers" device labeled "C5D Headphone Amp DAC". My original C5D was identified as a "S/PDIF" device which I believe was labeled something along the lines of "Bravo-X". (I can't remember the exact label assigned, and can't check either as I have already packed the original C5D for mailing.) I don't know if that anomaly is a sign of anything or important, but I figured I'd let jseaber know just in case.
  
 Anyway, thanks again! I plan to mail the faulty C5D back tomorrow, FYI.


----------



## jseaber

drm870 said:


> Got my replacement in the mail yesterday; it sounds great.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 "Bravo-X" is the default DAC controller name. After the first day of shipments, we began double checking for "C5D".


----------



## zombywoof

Just wanted to interject something...unrelated to the current discussion...received my C5 today.  I ordered it on 11/18.  As has been said before, great service from JDS labs, and a great product.  I am using it with 32Gb iPod Touch (4G) and 160 Gb iPod Classic (7G); SE215's and B&W P5's.  Sounds great. New life to my gear.  Anyone considering an amp for these devices need look no further.


----------



## pukemon

The extra juice the iPhone is using is probably extra CPU used by audio codecs apple doesn't support, that is if you're using any, and also powering the digital out connection. I would assume ~150mah or so.

Sent from my SM-N9005


----------



## xuan87

@jseaber Any updates on short length custom digital cables?


----------



## jseaber

xuan87 said:


> @jseaber Any updates on short length custom digital cables?


 
  
 Not yet. I expect this to take some time.


----------



## deniall83

Keen to order a C5D. Has the hum issue been resolved?
  
 EDIT Nevermind.. Read the announcement.


----------



## .Sup

Just read everything from page 96. Will be ordering. I believe even with import taxes it should be cheaper than ordering from EU based on the C5 price in EU.


----------



## sygyzy

Black Friday sales just went up. Looks like the C5D AMPLIFIER+DAC is $229. Thoughts?


----------



## d marc0

That is an awesome deal!


----------



## idunnosoSTFU

How do you use this with Android?


----------



## Varoudis

idunnosostfu said:


> How do you use this with Android?


 
 Same as all other USB Audio1 DACs. like FiioE18 etc..
  
 I expect it to work with my note2.


----------



## dc-k

idunnosostfu said:


> How do you use this with Android?


 
  You'll need an OTG Cable + UAC1 for your android device.This takes the audio signal from the USB port on your device into  the DAC.


----------



## idunnosoSTFU

dc-k said:


> You'll need an OTG Cable + UAC1 for your android device.This takes the audio signal from the USB port on your device into  the DAC.


 
 Does it work with pre-JB firmwares?


----------



## dc-k

idunnosostfu said:


> Does it work with pre-JB firmwares?


 
 pretty sure it came in with JB, see http://developer.android.com/about/versions/jelly-bean.html
  
 which android device/system are you expecting to use?


----------



## idunnosoSTFU

dc-k said:


> pretty sure it came in with JB, see http://developer.android.com/about/versions/jelly-bean.html
> 
> which android device/system are you expecting to use?


 
 Ah, thought so. Wanted to recommend the C5D for my dad. I guess not.


----------



## miceblue

Well that plan backfired. XD

* That's the C5, not the C5D, with the ODAC connected to the Apple Camera Connection Kit

According to NwAvGuy, the "ODAC uses a bit under 1 watt" of power.

Except with a USB hub (not powered), it magically works. -_-
Behold the most portable rig you have ever laid your eyes on.


----------



## ostewart

My C5D should ship early December


----------



## dc-k

miceblue said:


> Well that plan backfired. XD
> 
> 
> Except with a USB hub (not powered), it magically works. -_-
> Behold the most portable rig you have ever laid your eyes on.


 
  
  
 That hub just oozes style, where did you get it?


----------



## miceblue

dc-k said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > Well that plan backfired. XD
> ...



It was a Christmas gift from my mom a few years ago. I think I saw it at Macy's on one of their random gizmo stands.


----------



## howdy

What is going to have better sound and separation the C5D or the Fiio E17? Would be mainly used with a IPod classic.


----------



## ostewart

C5D and X3 are different devices. C5D is an amp and DAC, X3 is a DAP.

You cannot use the X3 with an ipod. You can use the C5D with an ipod but you won't be benefiting from the DAC unless you use it with a computer or android/iOS 7 device.


----------



## miceblue

ostewart said:


> C5D and X3 are different devices. C5D is an amp and DAC, X3 is a DAP.
> 
> You cannot use the X3 with an ipod. You can use the C5D with an ipod but you won't be benefiting from the DAC unless you use it with a computer or android/iOS 7 device.



Erm, the E17 was the thing of question, not the X3.

I don't know about the E17, but the C5 is a much more detailed and transparent sound next to the E7 or my friend's E07k.


----------



## ostewart

Yeah the C5D is more transparent than the E17


----------



## adammax

Hi,
  
 How will JDS C5 compare to Fiio E18 ?


----------



## palermo

hope anyone compare C5D with venturecraft soundroid typhoon, since both have similarity on spec, USB receiver SA9027 and PCM5102 DAC


----------



## skingg

varoudis said:


> Same as all other USB Audio1 DACs. like FiioE18 etc..
> 
> I expect it to work with my note2.


 
 Please report if it works with your Note 2, then I can be sure it'll work with my S3.


----------



## Varoudis

skingg said:


> Please report if it works with your Note 2, then I can be sure it'll work with my S3.


 
 For that you will have to wait after Xmas. maybe someone else can?


----------



## ostewart

I have an S3 so will report when I get my C5D


----------



## Eriksrocks

Can anyone tell me if plugging speakers like the Audioengine A2's into the headphone output of the C5D would be a good/bad idea? I am looking for a USB DAC and the C5D looks extremely nice, but I need something that can be used with both my headphones and my powered desktop speakers. The C5D doesn't have a line out, so would it be possible to just plug the A2's into the headphone output?
  
 I know this would essentially be amplifying the signal twice (including any noise and distortion introduced in the first stage), but would I actually notice vs. a DAC with a true line out?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## luisdent

eriksrocks said:


> Can anyone tell me if plugging speakers like the Audioengine A2's into the headphone output of the C5D would be a good/bad idea? I am looking for a USB DAC and the C5D looks extremely nice, but I need something that can be used with both my headphones and my powered desktop speakers. The C5D doesn't have a line out, so would it be possible to just plug the A2's into the headphone output?
> 
> I know this would essentially be amplifying the signal twice (including any noise and distortion introduced in the first stage), but would I actually notice vs. a DAC with a true line out?
> 
> Thanks!


I use the c5 with my alesis m1mk2 studio monitors...


----------



## Eriksrocks

Thanks, that helps. Now someone convince me that the C5D is worth the 3x greater price over the Fiio E10 (the other option I'm looking at).


----------



## Mix0r

eriksrocks said:


> Thanks, that helps. Now someone convince me that the C5D is worth the 3x greater price over the Fiio E10 (the other option I'm looking at).


 
_First of all: I'm a newbie audiophile who just got the C5D as my first dac/amp_, take the following first impressions with a grain of salt
  
 Well, simply put: I'm a basshead and the 3 level bass boost really, really helps my Q701 sound a lot better. The amp does exactly what I expected it to do - amplify the sound! , also, I've tried the amp with several other (worse) headphones and they all sound much better regarding the amp-only section.
  
 As for the dac, using foobar and WASAPI allowed me to finally use my Q701 on my laptop - something I never did before since it sounded so bad. To make it sound even better, I use EQ (yes, please don't judge me) to further make the sound great for me, and I found myself literally smiling as I was listening through my library.
  
 And maybe something irrelevant, is that the guys over at JDS are great, the support is awesome. I had to change my order, asked lots of questions and was generally just annoying but it was all good ^^
  
 Again, only use my words as a "from a newcomers view", 
  
 Finally, for those of you who are in the EU - it is actually cheaper to get it directly from JDS, and that is including the import fees, not to mention that the C5D hasn't arrived in the EU yet. Compare to C5 price here 
 (for some reason the customs let my package slip through, so no fees here at all )


----------



## Jerryberry

HAVE I MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE IN C5 ???
  
 Hi, I just purchased a c5 slate after contemplating numerous choices of amps and dacs and a combi of both. I am coming from an E11 which had its headphone jack give me problems and i wasn't 2 happy about its build quality either. I was about to settle for the E07k for its quailty built, price and as well as portability but there was a discount for the c5 at 175usd so i took the plunge instead for that. 
  
 The question is have i made the right choice ??? or will i have buyers remorse ???
  
 I hope i made the right choice! I was also considering the E17, E12, E18.
  
 I have the vmoda m100s and the senn Amperiors. I am currently using android and sansa clip + (and maybe x5 soon). n I'm a closet bass-head i guess.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## headwhacker

I just got my C5D after getting a discount from the Black Friday sale. I notice there is no gain selector switch
  
 I assume the gain is automatically selected based on the headphone is this correct?


----------



## ostewart

Push the volume rocker in to change the gain.


----------



## Jerryberry

headwhacker said:


> I just got my C5D after getting a discount from the Black Friday sale. I notice there is no gain selector switch
> 
> I assume the gain is automatically selected based on the headphone is this correct?




I believe that you choose or increase your gain by pressing down on the volume knob.


----------



## miceblue

jerryberry said:


> HAVE I MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE IN C5 ???
> 
> Hi, I just purchased a c5 slate after contemplating numerous choices of amps and dacs and a combi of both. I am coming from an E11 which had its headphone jack give me problems and i wasn't 2 happy about its build quality either. I was about to settle for the E07k for its quailty built, price and as well as portability but there was a discount for the c5 at 175usd so i took the plunge instead for that.
> 
> ...



Considering *ostewart's thoughts of the C5 vs E17**, my comparisons between the C5 and E12, and Headfonia's general disappointment in the E18, I think the C5 is a good investment in that regard.




headwhacker said:



			I just got my C5D after getting a discount from the Black Friday sale. I notice there is no gain selector switch

I assume the gain is automatically selected based on the headphone is this correct?
		
Click to expand...


The volume adjustor also acts as a switch. You just push it into the C5 to toggle the gain.



[rule]
On a note about Headfonia:



			Mike and me don't agree on [the C5D] yet. But Mike has a bad one that was recalled so he's waiting for a new one. Me, I'm waiting for my old C5, to compare it directly to that.

My 1st impr. Better than the C5, more refined, but C421 amp still is king.
		
Click to expand...

*


----------



## headwhacker

ostewart said:


> Push the volume rocker in to change the gain.


 
  
  


jerryberry said:


> I believe that you choose or increase your gain by pressing down on the volume knob.


 
  
 Thanks, that's a clever mechanism however, it's difficult to tell which gain setting is currently selected.


----------



## headwhacker

Just spent 3 hours listening to C5D amp section paired with DX50. So far I'm very impressed. Its detail retrieval is too damn clear and crisp without sounding artificial. It really feels like you are stitting with the band in a studio while playing. I really appreciate each instruments playing within the music and sounding very distinct and not clashing with each other. The separation is quite wider compared to say my UHA-4.
  
 As far a clarity goes I think this can rival the O2. I don't like the bass boost though. The bass is already punchy, solid and very clear with JH16. The bass boost makes the music sound unnatural to me and feels disconnected to the music.
  
 Will allow more burn-in time for C5D and when I get time I will do my own mini shootout between O2, C5D and UHA-4.


----------



## ThurstonX

Today my *S*c*h*i*it* Lyr became just a homonym of the first word in its name... it refused to turn on.  Don't get me wrong, I love that damn amp, but imagine the disappointment after only seven weeks of ownership and just getting into some serious tube rolling.  Well, I'm sure soon enough the boys at Schiit Central will have me back (st)rolling through the tubey goodness found in the Land of Nod.
  
 But how to drive the HE-500s?  Oh, hello li'l C5.  I'm not sure you're up to it.  What's that?  Give you another chance?  Well, I suppose the HE-500s are broken in and properly modded now, and there's your tiny li'l cousin, the HiFimeDIY U2 Sabre DAC, with whom you can play... WTH!  Let's rock & roll!!!
  
 And so we are  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Seriously, after my initial "test" of trying to drive the HE-500s with the C5, I was less than optimistic.  But I also love these damn cans, and it's hard to keep them off my head (just ask my wife   Random first song test, "Vital Signs" from Rush's _Moving Pictures_.  Yeah, that's workin'.  Now, something a little louder and harder... well, blow me down.
  
 I'm not trying to tell HE-500 owners, current and future, that all you need is a C5 and forget the rest.  I'm just saying don't underestimate the power of this li'l JDS Labs masterpiece.  Now, which tubes does this sound remind me of....?
  
  
*One Little Victory  *


----------



## ostewart

Incredible how it can power the HE-500!


----------



## ThurstonX

ostewart said:


> Incredible how it can power the HE-500!


 
  
 Yeah, I'm still a little surprised.  It struggled with a few things, e.g., parts of "Shine On You Crazy Diamond (Parts VI-IX)" (just finished listening), but overall a happy surprise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm really curious how the HE-500s (and Q701s & SR-225s, for that matter) will sound on the Lyr after two weeks on the C5.
  
 Did I mention, two HUGE thumbs up to JDS Labs


----------



## ostewart

I'm sure the difference will be wrote noticeable but still impressive from the C5.


----------



## headwhacker

Has anyone tried C5D DAC connected to iPod classic? Does it work?


----------



## Varoudis

headwhacker said:


> Has anyone tried C5D DAC connected to iPod classic? Does it work?


 
 i don't think so


----------



## zachgraz

jerryberry said:


> HAVE I MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE IN C5 ???
> 
> Hi, I just purchased a c5 slate after contemplating numerous choices of amps and dacs and a combi of both. I am coming from an E11 which had its headphone jack give me problems and i wasn't 2 happy about its build quality either. I was about to settle for the E07k for its quailty built, price and as well as portability but there was a discount for the c5 at 175usd so i took the plunge instead for that.
> 
> ...


 
 I have tried E17, E12 and I owned FiiO E18. FiiO sound is more punchy to my ears but I prefer smoother JDS sound. To my ears the FiiO E18 has a forward and somewhat bright sounding DAC section and a punchy sounding amp section. Too much - it sounded harsh to my ears; I could'nt listen to the E18 for more than a minute.
  
 I own the JDS Labs C421 now - somehow I preferred it's sound signature to the C5's. I use it together with the Stoner Acoustics 110 mk2 DAC (50$), which has the same USB receiver and same DAC as the C5D and works well with my Samsung Galaxy S3 too. One option to consider for people who already have a C421 or C5 and do not want to upgrade to C5D.
  
 I would be interested in a comparison Stoner DAC & C5 to C5D. Should be pretty similar output but who knows.


----------



## ThurstonX

ostewart said:


> I'm sure the difference will be wrote noticeable but still impressive from the C5.


 
  
 LOL, it had damn well better be!


----------



## headwhacker

I'm now using C5D with my Beyer T1 and connected to my Macbook as the source. The DAC in C5D has superb clarity the highs are very detailed and crisp. This little amp/DAC has plenty of power to drive the T1. It definitely has plenty of room to spare, can't turn the volume all the way up coz I don't want to damage my hearing


----------



## headwhacker

I found something strange I think. At low gain I can turn up the volume on the T1 to a fairly loud level but I can hear some distortion in the bass region of the music. But on high gain their is no distortion.
  
 Has anyone notice the same thing with high Impedance cans? Is that normal?
  
 Other amps I have simply just can't drive the T1 at loud levels on low gain but doesn't have any distortion.


----------



## jseaber

headwhacker said:


> I found something strange I think. At low gain I can turn up the volume on the T1 to a fairly loud level but I can hear some distortion in the bass region of the music. But on high gain their is no distortion.
> 
> Has anyone notice the same thing with high Impedance cans? Is that normal?
> 
> Other amps I have simply just can't drive the T1 at loud levels on low gain but doesn't have any distortion.


 
  
 Normal: C5 and C5D have higher output power at high gain compared to low gain. All published specifications are taken at high gain.


----------



## luisdent

jseaber said:


> headwhacker said:
> 
> 
> > I found something strange I think. At low gain I can turn up the volume on the T1 to a fairly loud level but I can hear some distortion in the bass region of the music. But on high gain their is no distortion.
> ...


 
  
 C5 and C5D have a whole lotta' awesome at both gain settings.


----------



## headwhacker

jseaber said:


> Normal: C5 and C5D have higher output power at high gain compared to low gain. All published specifications are taken at high gain.




Ok thanks that make sense. I'm just amazed how well C5D drives my T1. I really can't justify any logical reason to get a separate desktop amp. Even the M8 now looks overkill for T1.


----------



## baydude

Why does my center bass seem higher? What freq changes does up/mid/low bass boost make?


----------



## luisdent

baydude said:


> Why does my center bass seem higher? What freq changes does up/mid/low bass boost make?



It's mainly at 80hz, but the boost does affect up to about 1000 hz in a gradual curve back down to 0db boost. So it will affect the mid/bass and up a little bit.


----------



## shisnitty

Anyone here tried powering a q701 with these? How do they sound? Is the power enough?


----------



## ThurstonX

shisnitty said:


> Anyone here tried powering a q701 with these? How do they sound? Is the power enough?


 
  
 Absolutely.
  
 It even powers my HE-500s to a reasonable level.  I have the C5, not the C5D, but the amp section is the same.


----------



## miceblue

shisnitty said:


> Anyone here tried powering a q701 with these? How do they sound? Is the power enough?



The C5 works well with my K 701, and even more so with the bass boost.


----------



## Ultrainferno

thurstonx said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> It even powers my HE-500s to a reasonable level.  I have the C5, not the C5D, but the amp section is the same.


 
  
 As good as the same, there are some minor differences looking at the numbers


----------



## ThurstonX

ultrainferno said:


> As good as the same, there are some minor differences looking at the numbers


 
  
 IIRC, John mentioned the output impedance on the C5D is lower than the C5, but that it shouldn't be noticeable in normal use conditions (i.e., listening to music).  But yeah, JDS Labs is great for providing detailed info, so comparisons of measurements are easy to do for prospective buyers.


----------



## headwhacker

DX50 -> C5D -> T1

Loves this combo. Just can't stop lsitening. C5D is truly a wondering little amp. 

It physically matches the size of DX50 so stacking them is not a problem. 

DX50 -> C5D -> JH16
Very portable if not the most portable HiFi combo.


----------



## Zenthelld

Ordered one as a Christmas present to myself from my fiancée  Very much looking forward to hearing it.

Dumb question: I've read the digital volume control goes up in 1dB steps and has a total of 60-something steps. Does that not mean that it maxes out at 60-something decibels?


----------



## urtv

Dumb question here but is it possible to use the C5D as amp only? Currently using it with my phone but in the future I might want to upgrade to a real DAP.
  
 BTW, JDS Labs probably has the fastest shipping I ever seen. They shipped my C5D 2.5 hours after I placed the order.


----------



## headwhacker

urtv said:


> Dumb question here but is it possible to use the C5D as amp only? Currently using it with my phone but in the future I might want to upgrade to a real DAP.
> 
> BTW, JDS Labs probably has the fastest shipping I ever seen. They shipped my C5D 2.5 hours after I placed the order.




Yes it has a Line In. I use it as amp only when paired with DX50. But I use the DAC/Amp combo when connected to my mac via USB.


----------



## jjcoolaus

Well I just purchased my C5 - I'm really looking forward to it!
  
 Why the C5 and not the C5D - well several reasons:
 - pocket space is at a premium, especially in summer, and the C5D is 1.2 cm wider (12 mm) than the C5. That makes the C5D almost as wide as the Fiio E12 it replaces.
 - I almost never listen to FLACs. Most of my music streaming is 320kbps mp3 or below and video files would be 128kbps or higher mp3 for the audio - from my limited understanding this means there would be no point in using a DAC in the first place?
 - The C5 will be used almost exclusively with android devices. When I want to watch/listen to something on the MacBook, I'd be reaching for my bluetooth speakers or the cable for my receiver long before any headphones.
 - I note the lower battery life in the C5D - there is a * next to the battery life and I had a look at the official JDS Labs site and it doesn't even say there what it means?
  I think I'd prefer the long battery life
 - Can the C5D be used as a headphone amp alone (with no DAC)? *edit* never mind, that question is answered already
 - The C5 was rated as "dead silence" when it comes to EMI in: http://www.head-fi.org/t/620775/the-sub-200-portable-amps-shootout-13-11-amps-compared - the whole point of this is to eliminate the EMI noise of the E12, and I don't know how the C5D fares in comparison.
 - Taking all this into consideration, the extra $70 price tag would be money wasted wouldn't it?
  
 I don't think a C5D is for me. Hopefully i've made the right choice.


----------



## headwhacker

jjcoolaus said:


> Well I just purchased my C5 - I'm really looking forward to it!
> 
> Why the C5 and not the C5D - well several reasons:
> - pocket space is at a premium, especially in summer, and the C5D is 1.2 cm wider (12 mm) than the C5. That makes the C5D almost as wide as the Fiio E12 it replaces.
> ...




- Where do you get the 1.2cm difference? C5D has the exact same dimension as C5.

- C5D is a C5 + DAC and a lower output impedance which matters for low impedance IEMs. 

- Mobile devices and even Macbooks have crappy DACs. Even if you only play MP3s, you'll get sonic improvement with external DACs.C5D's DAC is very good. 

- C5D can be used as amp only just like a C5. 

- Battery life for C5D should be around the same as C5 if used exclusively as amp only. Definitely lower if used as DAC/amp combo.

- Overall C5D is the best DAC/amp combo for the price. Could easily match $600+ offerings from other competitors.


----------



## miceblue

I can attest for the C5's RFI noise against the E12. I don't use the E12 as a portable amp partially because of that, partially because it's just way too big, partially because the input and output ports are reversed, and partially because the volume knob is hard to use. XD





headwhacker said:


> - Overall C5D is the best DAC/amp combo for the price. Could easily match $600+ offerings from other competitors.



That's a pretty bold statement. How does the C5D stack up against the Leckerton UHA-4? Maybe it was the UHA-6, but there was one Leckerton amp that people claimed to sound better than the O2.
And more importantly, how does the C5D stack up against the widely discussed PHA-1?


----------



## headwhacker

miceblue said:


> I can attest for the C5's RFI noise against the E12. I don't use the E12 as a portable amp partially because of that, partially because it's just way too big, partially because the input and output ports are reversed, and partially because the volume knob is hard to use. XD
> That's a pretty bold statement. How does the C5D stack up against the Leckerton UHA-4? Maybe it was the UHA-6, but there was one Leckerton amp that people claimed to sound better than the O2.
> And more importantly, how does the C5D stack up against the widely discussed PHA-1?


 
  
 Frankly, I notice RFI noise more on UHA-4 coz I put my phone together with my DAP/amp in one bag. I have not notice any noise with C5D. Sonic wise I like the C5D better than the UHA-4 especially with the T1. I was looking for the smallest amp that can properly drive my T1 so I have the versatility of bringing my T1 outside my house.
  
 UHA-4 is no slough and can drive the T1. But the C5D just gives T1 more authority in reproducing details especially the lows. 
  
 I think the UHA-6 is the direct competition of C5D. In terms of versatility UHA-6 has an edge. However, C5D is cheaper. I can't comment on SQ since I have not tried it yet.
  
 Honestly I was considering the UHA-6. However, the dimensions are a little too weird in my opinion and would look awkward to stack it with a DAP. C5D has a perfect dimension for most DAP and the finish blends perfectly with my DX50. I suppose power-wise C5D and UHA-6 is on the same league.
  
 I have to dust off my PHA-1 to get an idea for comparison. It's been a long time sine I use it. But from memory the PHA-1 is a good DAC/amp combo except for the high output impedance and the price is typical of Sony.


----------



## f198

headwhacker said:


> .......................
> I have to dust off my PHA-1 to get an idea for comparison. It's been a long time sine I use it. But from memory the PHA-1 is a good DAC/amp combo except for the high output impedance and the price is typical of Sony.


 
 Looking forward to your comparison with PHA-1. Thanks.


----------



## MrShooter79

My JDS Labs C5D+DAC will arrive tomorrow.
  
 Thumbs up for jseaber he was helpful on customizing my unit to my liking 
  
Thanks


----------



## jjcoolaus

headwhacker said:


> - Where do you get the 1.2cm difference? C5D has the exact same dimension as C5.


 
   
Just an update to this, after having a chat with my headphone supplier of choice, they will correct the incorrect dimensions of the C5 on their website.

  
 After further chatting, I am definitely sold on the C5D and happily paid extra to upgrade to the new model. Plus by using the DAC with an OTG cable, I will actually have less cable clutter in my pocket as at the moment I use a cable way longer than what i would ever need with my E12 so I can put the E12 in a different pocket (to eliminate the noise from my handset).
  
 I'm also working on the assumption that as good as the DAC/amp in the HTC One is (its light years ahead of Samsung), an outboard amp/DAC will still have significantly better performance 
  
 Thanks for your help - you helped convince me to go for the beefier C5D - if battery life becomes an issue I guess i can always carry around a 12,000mah external battery pack as well lol


----------



## headwhacker

jjcoolaus said:


> Just an update to this, after having a chat with my headphone supplier of choice, they will correct the incorrect dimensions of the C5 on their website.
> 
> After further chatting, I am definitely sold on the C5D and happily paid extra to upgrade to the new model. Plus by using the DAC with an OTG cable, I will actually have less cable clutter in my pocket as at the moment I use a cable way longer than what i would ever need with my E12 so I can put the E12 in a different pocket (to eliminate the noise from my handset).
> 
> ...




As good as the DAC in C5D is, I wish C5 has the low output impedance of C5D. I only need an clean. neutral and low noise, low distortion amp that matches physically with my DX50 using low impedance CIEMS because I already have a few DACs.

The 2.2 ohm output impedance of C5 may not have enough headroom for <16 Ohm multi -BA iems.


----------



## Zenthelld

jjcoolaus said:


> Just an update to this, after having a chat with my headphone supplier of choice, they will correct the incorrect dimensions of the C5 on their website.
> 
> After further chatting, I am definitely sold on the C5D and happily paid extra to upgrade to the new model. Plus by using the DAC with an OTG cable, I will actually have less cable clutter in my pocket as at the moment I use a cable way longer than what i would ever need with my E12 so I can put the E12 in a different pocket (to eliminate the noise from my handset).
> 
> ...



The DAC is the exact same in both the HTC One and the Snapdragon model of Galaxy S4, which I guess goes to show what a difference a headphone amp alone can make (though I don't know the difference well as I haven't tried the HTC One extensively, and I have no idea what the specs are on the built-in amp).


----------



## headwhacker

zenthelld said:


> The DAC is the exact same in both the HTC One and the Snapdragon model of Galaxy S4, which I guess goes to show what a difference a headphone amp alone can make (though I don't know the difference well as I haven't tried the HTC One extensively, and I have no idea what the specs are on the built-in amp).




They may have the same DAC but the implementation could be different and can have huge difference in SQ. I don't have an HTC One nor have listened to it and I know they are endorsing it for it's sound quality but relying on the built-in DAC of a smartphone most of the time have unavoidable compromise that may degrade SQ compared to a well implemented external DAC.

Also I'm not sure HTC one has a lineout function. I suppose you don't want to double amp and make sense to entirely bypass the DAC/amp of HTC One.


----------



## jjcoolaus

zenthelld said:


> The DAC is the exact same in both the HTC One and the Snapdragon model of Galaxy S4, which I guess goes to show what a difference a headphone amp alone can make (though I don't know the difference well as I haven't tried the HTC One extensively, and I have no idea what the specs are on the built-in amp).


 
  
 Thanks - I wasn't aware of that. That's good to know as the Note 3 is supposed to work fine with the C5D so the HTC One should too. I'll find out tomorrow or Friday when my unit arrives 
  
 I'm not sure what the amp specs are either, but it makes a massive difference. Using stock, non-rooted ROMs as 90% of smartphone owners use, the Galaxy S and Note series cannot possibly drive my Shure SRH 940, let alone an 80 ohm DT770 Pro, unless you like your music barely audible at just a whisper.
  
 Plus when you do reach the last 2 steps of android volume control, all the bass goes and the treble/midrange are heavily affected.
  
 The HTC One can easily pump the SRH 940 to volume levels nobody should be listening at, which is great if you like to add some extra bass with an equalizer (which reduces volume) and the HTC One alone without extra apps can drive the DT770 to a moderate volume before distorting.
  
 My Note 3 is in for repair at the moment, but when I get it back i'm looking forward to using the C5D with it. (not rooting it as I need the warranty intact - it's already failed for me once and I still have 22 months of my contract left)
  
 *edit* Headwhacker: my understanding is that all Android 4.3+ handsets should be good to go for USB Audio, save for some models you might need to install USB Audio Recorder Pro, but this app doesn't require root to run.
 C5D Blog: http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=722
 USB Audio Recorder Pro: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudiorecorderpro&hl=en


----------



## Zenthelld

headwhacker said:


> They may have the same DAC but the implementation could be different and can have huge difference in SQ. I don't have an HTC One nor have listened to it and I know they are endorsing it for it's sound quality but relying on the built-in DAC of a smartphone most of the time have unavoidable compromise that may degrade SQ compared to a well implemented external DAC.
> 
> Also I'm not sure HTC one has a lineout function. I suppose you don't want to double amp and make sense to entirely bypass the DAC/amp of HTC One.



I meant that the HTC One and GS4 both have the same built-in DAC. As the DAC is part of the Snapdragon chip set I imagine they're both implemented the same way. However, the HTC One has its Beats EQ and a headphone amp that HTC built into the phone, and Samsung has Adapt Sound to adjust the EQ of the default music player after a hearing test, so each phone will sound different. I was just commenting on jjcoolaus' comment that the HTC One was light years ahead of Samsung in terms of SQ, trying to show that there wasn't actually that much in it.

And the HTC One doesn't have a line-out for using an external amp only, but you would be able to use the micro USB to bypass the internal DAC and amp for the C5D (I don't know for certain that combo works, but others definitely do according to others, so I can't see why it wouldn't).

jjcoolaus: Thanks for the clarification on sound improvements. I believe the built-in amp improves the bass presence as well (something the Snapdragon DAC lacks by itself), though that may have more to do with the Beats EQ. Yeah the digital volume controlling different frequency ranges individually is something I'm hoping the C5D will fix (and I know it will).


----------



## headwhacker

I misread your post. I thought you were saying C5D and HTC one uses the same DAC.


----------



## Zenthelld

headwhacker said:


> I misread your post. I thought you were saying C5D and HTC one uses the same DAC.



No worries : )

Hold on... HT*C 5*nap*D*ragon

Woah O.O


----------



## MrShooter79

it work perfectly with my HTC One also with my Samsung Galaxy Note 2.
  
 This is a very powerful little amp.


----------



## Jerryberry

miceblue said:


> Considering *ostewart's thoughts of the C5 vs E17*, my comparisons between the C5 and E12, and Headfonia's general disappointment in the E18, I think the C5 is a good investment in that regard.
> The volume adjustor also acts as a switch. You just push it into the C5 to toggle the gain.
> 
> On a note about Headfonia:


 
 Hey miceblue, i would like your advise since you have rather similar equipment  .. I'm currently waiting for my C5 and would like to know how it would sound paired up with a rockboxed clip+ and the m100s/amperiors. I´m coming from the Fiio e11 and wasn´t really impressed so im hoping it would be better now.
  
 Also im keeping an eye on the Fiio x5 (as well as the ibasso dx50 when the software and hardware stabilises) . With that in mind do you think the sound quality of the rockboxed clip+ with c5 would be enough for me to save my money in not getting the x5 or dx50 ? Would there be such a big difference you think ??? I know its all a matter of taste but your input would be great !!! I just love the versatility of that tiny clip+ though


----------



## MrShooter79

Sorry about the low quality picture, taken by my HTC One.
  
 This little devil can power my Audio-Technica ATH-M50 to crazy volumes in low gain  
 Also, it drive my AKG K712 to a nice volumes but it cant drive it hard even in high gain but i am happy with it. 
  
 This amplifier make my smile while listening to music 
  
 It is just evil, i am calling it the Red Devil


----------



## jjcoolaus

Just got mine today, i'm pretty happy with it.
  
 It made me do two things immediately. Uninstall the equalizer app, and turn off beats audio in the phone settings. What I found is that whilst your equalizer app may work at first, the second or third time you plugin the amp, it will completely bypass the equalizer app and it has no effect - i think that's a little mis step in the android or HTC audio system, but it's a good thing anyway because the amp sounds so much better without it.
  
 In terms of headphones it did ok with the Shure SRH-940 but I went back and plugged the SoundMAGIC HP 100 into it and i'll have to do more listening but at this stage I reckon that is a better pairing.
  
 On the way to work this morning I heard the track "Pumped Up Kicks" by Foster the People come up in a MOG playlist (search Triple J Hottest 100 of the past 20yrs) and I thought - that would be a great track to test out this amp with and wow there is a massive difference in the sound stage with the amp versus without. The HP100's certainly do benefit from an amp! (Yes I do use a bit of streaming media - for MOG my mobile carrier here in Australia gives me the full 320kbps quality completely unmetered - as in the data it uses is free so why not have millions of tracks for $13 a month). Any other suggestions of tracks to try with it?
  
 With the HTC One plugged in DAC mode, if you receive a call (or make one, like i did) the phone call does NOT come in via your headphones. Instead it comes through the phone speaker. I installed USB Audio Recorder Pro (just the trial version to see if it worked) and it did nothing but complain I have no input. So obviously that app isn't compatible with my phone. All other phone audio works fine though.
  
 So just a question, what do you do when a call comes in?
  
 This could be a bit convienent for me and encourage me to leave my phone on silent more often, because I hate being interrupted by a CALL on my PHONE when watching or listening to something, as arrogant as that sounds. In terms of problems, it really is a first world problem anyway.
  
 Also, what do you reckon is better in terms of battery life - turn up the volume a bit and leave the amp on low gain, or keep the volume lower but the amp in high gain?


----------



## luisdent

> I hate being interrupted by a CALL on my PHONE when watching or listening to something, as arrogant as that sounds.




Why is that arrogant? Arrogant is the fact that people use their phones so much that they think they can't miss a call or it's rude. It's not. I feel sorry for people tied to their phones too much. It does more harm than good. Use your phone here and there if you want. Return calls when appropriate, etc. But you should NEVER let a phone come between you and your music. . Hehe.


----------



## miceblue

jjcoolaus said:


> So just a question, what do you do when a call comes in?
> 
> This could be a bit convienent for me and encourage me to leave my phone on silent more often, because I hate being interrupted by a CALL on my PHONE when watching or listening to something, as arrogant as that sounds. In terms of problems, it really is a first world problem anyway.



You still hear the phone's ringtone play when you receive a call. In that case, since the C5[D] doesn't support a voice channel via TRRS cables, you have to either:

 Unplug the amp from your phone and use the phone like normal
 Leave the amp plugged into your phone so you can use your headphones as the speaker, and put the phone's microphone to your mouth to talk and look like you're going to eat your phone


----------



## jjcoolaus

> Originally Posted by *miceblue* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> You still hear the phone's ringtone play when you receive a call. In that case, since the C5[D] doesn't support a voice channel via TRRS cables, you have to either:
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm not sure if the ringtone plays, when I received a call on the bus this morning my phone was on silent.
  
 1. is not necessary because;
 2. is what i would normally do if the headphones were connected direct to my phone but this doesn't happen. You are misunderstanding me.
  
 A call comes in, and if I answer it, i hear nothing through the headphones. I have to take the headphones off and pick up my phone & hold it to my ear to be able to hear the caller. If i put the phone on speakerphone, the call comes out through the HTC One's "boomsound" speakers.
  
 So far that's the only viable solution. Hurriedly remove my headphones, and hold the phone (and also my amp because it's still connected to the phone) to my ear.
  
 Disconnecting the headphones from my amp and plugging them direct into the phone is much more fiddly, considering the amps small size.
  
 Fortunately calls are rare for me. That's why I have the smallest possible voice plan with my carrier and then bolt on unlimited MOG streaming plus a big 3Gb data pack.


----------



## headwhacker

luisdent said:


> Why is that arrogant? Arrogant is the fact that people use their phones so much that they think they can't miss a call or it's rude. It's not. I feel sorry for people tied to their phones too much. It does more harm than good. Use your phone here and there if you want. Return calls when appropriate, etc. But you should NEVER let a phone come between you and your music. . Hehe.




Completely agree. People nowadays are not aware of phone etiquette. Call me old school but phones calls can be returned no one is obliged to take a call all the time. I hate taking calls in public because I believe a phone call should always be private. 

It annoys me if I'm sitting beside anyone on a train talking so loud on their phone.


----------



## ThurstonX

headwhacker said:


> Completely agree. People nowadays are not aware of phone etiquette. Call me old school but phones calls can be returned no one is obliged to take a call all the time. I hate taking calls in public because I believe a phone call should always be private.
> 
> It annoys me if I'm sitting beside anyone on a train talking so loud on their phone.


 
  
 Guess we know where you stand on cell calls allowed on airplanes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I wink, but I stand with you.  I guess the only escape would be a parachute.
  
 Unrelated, but on topic:
 I continue to be amazed at how well the C5 drives the HE-500s.  It's been over a week since I heard them on the Lyr, but I have a few tracks I like to use to test dynamics and bass.  "Alien Shore" from Rush's _Counterparts_ is one.  Geddy's bass work is great.  On the C5 it's clean and tight, but lacks some weight.  On the Lyr (tube dependent, of course), it's got the weight, but is not as clean and tight.  Same goes for the upper mids, IIRC.  All that to say, it's nice to have a SS alternative to the hybrid Lyr.
  
 I also listened to Pink Floyd's _Animals_ tonight, and the C5 did it justice on the HE-500s.


----------



## Zenthelld

jjcoolaus said:


> I'm not sure if the ringtone plays, when I received a call on the bus this morning my phone was on silent.
> 
> 1. is not necessary because;
> 2. is what i would normally do if the headphones were connected direct to my phone but this doesn't happen. You are misunderstanding me.



As far as I'm aware it's because your call app is programmed to either run the sound through your phone's loudspeaker or through whatever is connected to the mini-jack port. I doubt many or any devs have taken USB audio into account. I may be wrong, but this seems like it would be the reason.

If you have headphones with an input on each cup you could connect one side to the C5D and one to your phone's headphone port, though that's not very practical obviously. You could also try asking a dev of a call app about it and see if they could implement it. Or, what I'd do, is just put my phone on vibrate (actually I don't think my phone is ever not on vibrate). I mean you have to grab your phone+C5D to talk into anyway, right? So you may as well just put your headphones 'round your neck and hold the phone+C5D to your ear.

*ThurstonX:* By the way, thank you for commenting before on how well the C5 drives your HE-500s (I believe you mentioned it earlier in this thread as well as just now). It helped me decide on the C5D over some other amps, as I was looking for one that could, in the future, decently drive the T50RPs.


----------



## jjcoolaus

I'm blown away by the improvement the C5D gives to the SoundMAGIC HP100 headphones.
  
 The bass is so clean and tight and on the highest bass boost setting, the C5D gives me fantastic sub-bass lows without bleeding it anywhere else across the spectrum. My headphones only cost $250, but the C5D still gave them a terrific improvement in performance.
  
 I'm never using an "equalizer" app again. This is great!
  
 It's like i'm discovering completely new sounds in the music.


----------



## Zenthelld

Thank you for your HP100+C5D impressions. I owned the HP100s but ended up sending them back as I didn't entirely love their sound. I felt they were a little hollow sounding, but I thought it was probably down to lack of proper amping. Do the HP100s sound a little fuller/warmer to you with the C5D? Or did you feel they were full enough before anyway?


----------



## SkyBleu

HP200 + C5 owner here and super satisfied.


----------



## Jerryberry

Hey all i have a question. When using the c5 amp connected to the line out of a DAP ? are you able to adjust the equilizer settings on the DAP ? If im not mistaken, you cannot adjust the volume settings or am i wrong? on the DAP but i would like to know if i can change the bass or treble settings ?


----------



## Ultrainferno

That wouldn't be logic.


----------



## SkyBleu

jerryberry said:


> Hey all i have a question. When using the c5 amp connected to the line out of a DAP ? are you able to adjust the equilizer settings on the DAP ? If im not mistaken, you cannot adjust the volume settings or am i wrong? on the DAP but i would like to know if i can change the bass or treble settings ?


 
 Hi,
  
 Yes, when planning to amp your source, you'll either have the C5 connected via Line-Out (if your source has a Line-Out 3.5mm port), OR you can have the C5 connected via your headphone output on your source/DAP. 
  
 Yes, equilizer settings (Including your bass/treble settings) are still adjustable from your DAP. Although, with volume, it is rather dependent on your source. Something with a true Line-Out will not allow you to use the volume controls of your DAP if an amp is connected. Something like an iPod Nano, when Line-Outted to the C5, the volume of the iPod is rendered useless, and all volume controls will be done on the C5. And then you have other DAPs, such as the iBasso DX50, where it does have a Line-Out function, but you can still operate the DAP's volume controls even when an amp (such as a C5) is connected.
  
 Hope I made sense and didn't make it too confusing for you


----------



## Jerryberry

skybleu said:


> Hi,
> 
> Yes, when planning to amp your source, you'll either have the C5 connected via Line-Out (if your source has a Line-Out 3.5mm port), OR you can have the C5 connected via your headphone output on your source/DAP.
> 
> ...


 
 yes it does so it basically depends on the DAP but regardless the equilizer settings would work throughout regardless of the DAP !!! Great n thanks !


----------



## SkyBleu

jerryberry said:


> yes it does so it basically depends on the DAP but regardless the equilizer settings would work throughout regardless of the DAP !!! Great n thanks !



Correct
The bass boost switch on the C5 is amazingly monstrous, so you won't need that digital EQ bass setting on your DAP.


----------



## Jerryberry

skybleu said:


> Correct
> The bass boost switch on the C5 is amazingly monstrous, so you won't need that digital EQ bass setting on your DAP.


 
 thats good to know as i do like a good rumbling bass .. was thinkin abt the dx50 or the new x5 that just got announced today as the potential  DAP


----------



## SkyBleu

jerryberry said:


> thats good to know as i do like a good rumbling bass .. was thinkin abt the dx50 or the new x5 that just got announced today as the potential  DAP




I currently run the DX50 with the C5, and you can find out what I think of the pairing in my C5 review, which is located in my signature below. 

As of the X5, we're not tooaurehow that'll turn out, seeing that it has yet to be officially released.


----------



## Jerryberry

skybleu said:


> I currently run the DX50 with the C5, and you can find out what I think of the pairing in my C5 review, which is located in my signature below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 FYI THE X5 is official and on sale in China.  Check it out on the website. 
  
http://fiio.net/cn/products/index.aspx?ID=100000055517771&MenuID=105026016


----------



## SkyBleu

jerryberry said:


> FYI THE X5 is official and on sale in China.  Check it out on the website.
> 
> http://fiio.net/cn/products/index.aspx?ID=100000055517771&MenuID=105026016




Oh, my bad then! 

Sorry.


----------



## Jerryberry

skybleu said:


> Oh, my bad then!
> 
> Sorry.


 
 BTW i just saw u have a v moda m100 as well  hws the bass with that and the c5. And btw where did u get your very cool interconnect cable from ? the white one ? between your dx and c5 ?


----------



## SkyBleu

jerryberry said:


> BTW i just saw u have a v moda m100 as well  hws the bass with that and the c5. And btw where did u get your very cool interconnect cable from ? the white one ? between your dx and c5 ?



The bass when the M100 are paired with the C5 with bass boost on...is bass monstrosity at its finest. The entire low frequency has great depth and texture, and hits harder than ever. EDM fan? This combo will make you feel like you got a rave party going off in your head, haha.

The pure silver interconnect that you speak of, was made by this eBay seller (http://www.ebay.com.au/usr/onest11). Great little cable, and all you need to do is shoot him an email/eBay message and tell him what lengths/wires you want in place, and he'll give you a price if he can do it. My friend bought my cable for me, soim not 100% sure what went down between him and the seller, but I'm quite certain what I said above is still valid.


----------



## ThurstonX

jerryberry said:


> FYI THE X5 is official and on sale in China.  Check it out on the website.
> 
> http://fiio.net/cn/products/index.aspx?ID=100000055517771&MenuID=105026016


 
  
 Only on the Chinese version of the site.  Click "English" and you'll only see the X3.
  
 .....
  
 and I want one (X5)!  Should pair nicely with the C5.
 C5 + X5 = Hi-Res Goodness... do the math


----------



## SkyBleu

thurstonx said:


> Only on the Chinese version of the site.  Click "English" and you'll only see the X3.
> 
> .....
> 
> ...



CX-5 Combo!


----------



## Jerryberry

I was thinking the same.. CX-5 would be delicious !!!


----------



## SkyBleu

jerryberry said:


> I was thinking the same.. CX-5 would be delicious !!!


 
 I'm actually thinking about it. I do like the design of the X5 and it's UI. Hopefully it's bug free and doesn't have that warm/bassy sound signature that the FiiO amps had, and it'll win my heart over.


----------



## andylai

May I ask how is the C5D working with Shure SE846?
  
 I am currently using an iPod Classic latest version.
  
 Has anybody tried? Thanks heaps!


----------



## jjcoolaus

zenthelld said:


> Thank you for your HP100+C5D impressions. I owned the HP100s but ended up sending them back as I didn't entirely love their sound. I felt they were a little hollow sounding, but I thought it was probably down to lack of proper amping. Do the HP100s sound a little fuller/warmer to you with the C5D? Or did you feel they were full enough before anyway?


 
  
 Well, on my frist day using the C5D on public transport, I accidentally plugged the HP100 into the headphone jack of my HTC One, and I was only listening to talk radio but then when I put some music on, I noticed a difference in the sound so I switched it over to the C5D output jack and I did notice a shift (for the better) in how the HP100s sound.
  
 That is only based on a couple of minutes of use though, my previous experience with the HP100 was good due to the fact I always used an equalizer.


----------



## Soulrave

I currently own a xonar stx and was planning to upgrade to either an odac/o2 or c5d. 
  
 Which do you think is "better"? Here in my country they are priced relatively close. I will be using them for music and some gaming. 
  
 Cans I'll be using Q701 / HE400 / HD598.


----------



## headwhacker

soulrave said:


> I currently own a xonar stx and was planning to upgrade to either an odac/o2 or c5d.
> 
> Which do you think is "better"? Here in my country they are priced relatively close. I will be using them for music and some gaming.
> 
> Cans I'll be using Q701 / HE400 / HD598.




If you are not planning to use it as mobile amp/dac C5D makes sense. But if you will use it exclusively on your desktop O2+DAC will serve you better


----------



## Soulrave

headwhacker said:


> If you are not planning to use it as mobile amp/dac C5D makes sense. But if you will use it exclusively on your desktop O2+DAC will serve you better


 
  
 Now that I think of it, I kinda want to use it for my laptop or ipad at work... Does the odac work on iOS devices? I'm kinda leaning towards the C5D because I don't need to plug the amp to a wall socket, But if the quality of the dac / amp of o2+odac combo is cleaner and better than the C5D, I will go for the o2+odac and just make it my desktop gear at home.


----------



## headwhacker

soulrave said:


> Now that I think of it, I kinda want to use it for my laptop or ipad at work... Does the odac work on iOS devices? I'm kinda leaning towards the C5D because I don't need to plug the amp to a wall socket, But if the quality of the dac / amp of o2+odac combo is cleaner and better than the C5D, I will go for the o2+odac and just make it my desktop gear at home.


 
  
 The O2 amp overall is better but C5D is not far behind. This is actually what I use most of the time. I have not tried the ODAC. I suppose you are better off with C5D since it's more versatile. Given the C5D's size SQ quality is not night and day.


----------



## palermo

I thought C5 has more basic amplification technique compare to O2. C5 only apply one opamp as a voltage gain, no buffer in the output section, neither buffer in the loop feedback to boost more current.
 But C5 has very low distortion PSU, packed in some small footprint design (short signal path), moreover it has no caps on signal path. All effort aim to get precision in SQ, and perhaps avoid mass product dissimilarity. 
 So I think the sound of C5 is depend on what opamp used on gain section. Why stuck with op2227? DIYers with average solder technique would challenged to do some rolling opamp, due to dual rail +/-7 volt is more than sufficient to supply a wide range of soic opamp.


----------



## luisdent

headwhacker said:


> soulrave said:
> 
> 
> > Now that I think of it, I kinda want to use it for my laptop or ipad at work... Does the odac work on iOS devices? I'm kinda leaning towards the C5D because I don't need to plug the amp to a wall socket, But if the quality of the dac / amp of o2+odac combo is cleaner and better than the C5D, I will go for the o2+odac and just make it my desktop gear at home.
> ...



C5D has a few benefits though. Size, even though it's portable it's also a smaller footprint on your desk, this is nice if you have a laptop and limited space. The C5D has better channel balance than the O2 as well...


----------



## jjcoolaus

I'm having an interesting time with the C5D and my HTC One.
  
 Sometimes sound will come out of the boomsound speakers instead of through my amp which can be embarrassing.
  
 The workaround I have found is to ensure the C5D is turned on BEFORE plugging in the MicroUSB cable. Sometimes this works well, sometimes it results in no audio until you pause your music, disconnect and reconnect the microUSB cable and try again (maybe it's the user in that instance) but so far I have not had tunes or other audio blast out of the phone speakers using this method.
  
 Hopefully someone reading this thread might happen to be an audiophile who works for HTC and can implement a bug fix when KitKat rolls out. Ditto to the problem of phone calls going through the phone and not the DAC.


----------



## urtv

I connected my C5D to my pc and after playing music for a while, all sound would stop and I can only hear static. The stock usb cable and the one I got from monoprice did the same thing. Did I get a defective unit?


----------



## Varoudis

urtv said:


> I connected my C5D to my pc and after playing music for a while, all sound would stop and I can only hear static. The stock usb cable and the one I got from monoprice did the same thing. Did I get a defective unit?


 
 Do you hear static from the 'mobile' device that is not connected to the mains? (Laptop?Android phone?iPhone os7?)


----------



## urtv

varoudis said:


> Do you hear static from the 'mobile' device that is not connected to the mains? (Laptop?Android phone?iPhone os7?)


 

 Nope.
  
 I think I might have solved my problem(for now). Switched to a usb port far away from my other cables and seems to work fine now.


----------



## Mix0r

I also received static _equal to_ my current listening volume after having slightly moved the unit (adjusting amp gain for example)
 Don't think it was a cable loose, atleast not the one connected to the "dac end", as I was pushing it further in (suspected it was loose) the loud static sound was still on.
  
 This has happened twice so far only on my laptop, I will try to use another usb port and see if that solves anything.
  
 edit: Forgot to mention that a few other times (5+), when "slightly moving" it, the sound instead completely died and I have to reconnect the cables for it to work again. Yes, this is on different ports, are the cable and connections really "that sensitive"?


----------



## Varoudis

urtv said:


> Nope.
> 
> I think I might have solved my problem(for now). Switched to a usb port far away from my other cables and seems to work fine now.


 
 its the power supply of your pc (or laptop)


----------



## miceblue

^ yeah that could happen
My ODAC kept dying/playing weird sounds when connected to 1 USB input of my MacBook, but the other USB port right next to it was just fine. o.0


----------



## palermo

always same cases on my hrt musicstreamer II, ODAC, Fiio E10 since they have no own power source. 

 In C5D case, do all of you switch to the battery mode? it should not happen, battery take over the power source.


----------



## f198

http://www.headfonia.com/jdslabs-portable-dac-the-jdslabs-c5d/


----------



## miceblue

f198 said:


> http://www.headfonia.com/jdslabs-portable-dac-the-jdslabs-c5d/





> However while A/B testing them you can clearly notice a difference in the amp section. The C5D seems to have less space and air in the music, making it seem like a more congested sound compared to the C5, which sounds clearer and more resolving.




That's weird.




> And while I wasn’t a big fan of the C5 amplifier, the C5D as a DAC/Amp combo is now my favorite second to the CypherLabs Theorem.



That's not so weird.

XD


----------



## jseaber

palermo said:


> always same cases on my hrt musicstreamer II, ODAC, Fiio E10 since they have no own power source.
> 
> In C5D case, do all of you switch to the battery mode? it should not happen, battery take over the power source.


 
  
 C5D's firmware _reads _USB voltage even in self-power mode, so the DAC can potentially shut off when there's a cable or power disturbance. The assumption was that the DAC should remain off to conserve power when a USB cable is disconnected. There's some extra logic to avoid dropouts, but this would not help with large variations in USB voltage.
  
 The 2nd batch of C5Ds arrive today and we've updated firmware to force the DAC to remain on even when USB voltage behaves unexpectedly, including complete voltage dropouts. So unless the data drops out, the DAC will not turn off. Please email us if you have trouble again.
  


f198 said:


> http://www.headfonia.com/jdslabs-portable-dac-the-jdslabs-c5d/


 
  
 As Mike mentions, custom OTG cables for C5D have arrived.


----------



## d marc0

miceblue said:


> f198 said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.headfonia.com/jdslabs-portable-dac-the-jdslabs-c5d/
> ...


 
  
 That worries me as I'm planning to upgrade from C5 to the C5D 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I hope more people who's had both can chime in about this matter...


----------



## luisdent

d marc0 said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > f198 said:
> ...



Seems odd to me. They should, by the engineer's own admision, sound the same. The specs are all well below audible differences and practically identical.

Was this a/b test double blind? No disrespect, but i'd be hard pressed to rely on the results no matter how obvious they may seem to the listener. Especially with a device so close in specs. It's very easy and likely you'll hear differences if you think they are there or if you are listening for differences. The brain can be a pain in the butt sometimes...

Also if this is the same user, he wasn't a fan of the c5 and says the c5d is more congested. So it sounds worse than an amp he already didn't like, but it's good as a dac/amp combo? The combo should only be as good as its weakest link.

So just take that logic into mind. I'll be glad to post my impressions vs. the c5 as soon as i have a chance to hear the c5d. Not sure when that will be as i don't really need a dac at the moment..,


----------



## palermo

jseaber said:


> C5D's firmware _reads _USB voltage even in self-power mode, so the DAC can potentially shut off when there's a cable or power disturbance. The assumption was that the DAC should remain off to conserve power when a USB cable is disconnected. There's some extra logic to avoid dropouts, but this would not help with large variations in USB voltage.
> 
> The 2nd batch of C5Ds arrive today and we've updated firmware to force the DAC to remain on even when USB voltage behaves unexpectedly, including complete voltage dropouts. So unless the data drops out, the DAC will not turn off. Please email us if you have trouble again.


 

 Thanks John, glad to hear fast response from you and your team. 
 I am assuming battery is the main feature that can explain everything relate to power issue and connecting USB to PC is all about data transfer and ground sharing.


----------



## jseaber

palermo said:


> Thanks John, glad to hear fast response from you and your team.
> I am assuming battery is the main feature that can explain everything relate to power issue and connecting USB to PC is all about data transfer and ground sharing.


 
  
 That's right. Only D+, D-, and GND matter in self-power mode.


----------



## Varoudis

jseaber said:


> That's right. Only D+, D-, and GND matter in self-power mode.


 
 Hi John,
  
 Even though Ill get my C5D today its actually one of the first ones after fixing the initial issue (A friend got it for me in the states).
 Do I have to update the arduino 'firmware'?
  
 thnx


----------



## Ultrainferno

luisdent said:


> Also if this is the same user, he wasn't a fan of the c5 and says the c5d is more congested. So it sounds worse than an amp he already didn't like, but it's good as a dac/amp combo? The combo should only be as good as its weakest link.
> 
> So just take that logic into mind. I'll be glad to post my impressions vs. the c5 as soon as i have a chance to hear the c5d. Not sure when that will be as i don't really need a dac at the moment..,


 
  
 It does seem possible. The impact of the dac part on the amp shouldn't be underestimated. The result of using both at the same time can very well be different than using the amp solo. Two different people who have A/B tested both units have confirmed this by now.


----------



## jseaber

varoudis said:


> Hi John,
> 
> Even though Ill get my C5D today its actually one of the first ones after fixing the initial issue (A friend got it for me in the states).
> Do I have to update the arduino 'firmware'?
> ...


 
  
 @Varoudis: I see no reason to update firmware. The original code gives slightly longer run time in amplifier-only mode. The current code, v1.2.0, is standard for C5Ds shipping this week, and an optional update to first batch C5Ds. It's not worth changing unless you're using a USB port that drops below 4.1V and then above 4.9V in half a second (nominal voltage being 5.0V). Your USB ports really shouldn't do that!


----------



## goswser

I just have a question of interest. I got my C5 about a week ago and I've listened a lot to it and it's great. 
  
 Is the bass boost supposed to have that much of an increase? I can't even imagine bassheads listening to that much bass, maybe they do? I don't know how many db and that kind of stuff, but it is a lot. The normal mode is great though so that's where I listen.


----------



## luisdent

> . Two different people who have A/B tested both units have confirmed this by now.




This doesn't change anything. 30 people can test it. This is even more likely to cause the next tester to hear something because they're expecting to. As i already described...

And in my experiences a dac is usually the smallest change in the chain of devices if everything you have is at least decent. Not to say this isn't a great dac, but that if you already have a decent dac like an ipod, a better dac will only be a small change.

The benefit of the c5d is that no matter what you connect it to you're going to know you have reference sound. But c5 with an ipod should sound very similar if not identical to the c5d and an ipod. Not a large change as was described. The impedance with a very touchy iem would probably cause more change in sound than the dac itself... But that's another topic and not directly indicative if the "sound quality" of either vs. the other except in achieving a target frequency response if you iem is sensitive to impedance.


----------



## miceblue

goswser said:


> I just have a question of interest. I got my C5 about a week ago and I've listened a lot to it and it's great.
> 
> Is the bass boost supposed to have that much of an increase? I can't even imagine bassheads listening to that much bass, maybe they do? I don't know how many db and that kind of stuff, but it is a lot. The normal mode is great though so that's where I listen.



The bass boost works well with the AKG K 701, especially for gaming, watching movies, enjoying electronic music.

Likewise, it's beneficial to have while mobile listening considering the bass, and especially the sub-bass, is the first to disappear with background noise around you (hence why noise cancelling headphones usually have noise cancelling features for bass frequencies, so you can hear that part better).


----------



## Ultrainferno

luisdent said:


> This doesn't change anything. 30 people can test it. This is even more likely to cause the next tester to hear something because they're expecting to. As i already described...
> 
> And in my experiences a dac is usually the smallest change in the chain of devices if everything you have is at least decent. Not to say this isn't a great dac, but that if you already have a decent dac like an ipod, a better dac will only be a small change.
> 
> The benefit of the c5d is that no matter what you connect it to you're going to know you have reference sound. But c5 with an ipod should sound very similar if not identical to the c5d and an ipod. Not a large change as was described. The impedance with a very touchy iem would probably cause more change in sound than the dac itself... But that's another topic and not directly indicative if the "sound quality" of either vs. the other except in achieving a target frequency response if you iem is sensitive to impedance.


 
  
 Well, why don't you do the same test and report back


----------



## StubKidDtd2512

goswser said:


> I just have a question of interest. I got my C5 about a week ago and I've listened a lot to it and it's great.
> 
> Is the bass boost supposed to have that much of an increase? I can't even imagine bassheads listening to that much bass, maybe they do? I don't know how many db and that kind of stuff, but it is a lot. The normal mode is great though so that's where I listen.


 
 The C5's bass boost is +6.5 dB @80Hz. IMO it's a little too much for sensitive IEMs but you might want to turn it on if you use the C5 with orthordynamic or high impedance dynamic headphones due to its low output power.


----------



## andylai

May I ask if anybody has tried this amp on se846 and how was the experience ?

Thanks


----------



## luisdent

ultrainferno said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > This doesn't change anything. 30 people can test it. This is even more likely to cause the next tester to hear something because they're expecting to. As i already described...
> ...


I plan to.


----------



## headwhacker

luisdent said:


> The impedance with a very touchy iem would probably cause more change in sound than the dac itself... But that's another topic and not directly indicative if the "sound quality" of either vs. the other except in achieving a target frequency response if you iem is sensitive to impedance.




Same reason I got C5D instead of C5 even if I only use the amp most of the time


----------



## Varoudis

Thanks @jseaber this is top quality!
  

  

  

  
 Sorry for the 'oldy' decor Im in grandpars old place.
  

  
 bass boost it priceless!


----------



## AladdinSane

goswser said:


> Is the bass boost supposed to have that much of an increase? I can't even imagine bassheads listening to that much bass, maybe they do? I don't know how many db and that kind of stuff, but it is a lot. The normal mode is great though so that's where I listen.


 
  
 Really just depends on the headphones. C5 boost is nice on Senn 600s but not needed on more sensitive IEMs or on M-100s. It's what sounds good to you after all.


----------



## headwhacker

> Originally Posted by *goswser*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I don't use the bass boost much coz I like the neutral sound of C5D amp. But if need be the bass boost works well, it's clean and adds weight to the bass without pulling down details in mid/highs. Of course the headphone use will also be a factor how much bass quantity is present if bass boost is turned on.


----------



## goswser

I got another one for you guys. I get a clicking noice sometimes when I turn the volume up or down on the amp, it is easily heard if the player is on pause but can be heard with music on sometimes too. Any ideas what that is? 
  
 Sorry for being such a newbie.


----------



## jseaber

goswser said:


> I got another one for you guys. I get a clicking noice sometimes when I turn the volume up or down on the amp, it is easily heard if the player is on pause but can be heard with music on sometimes too. Any ideas what that is?
> 
> Sorry for being such a newbie.


 
  
 This has been discussed a few hundred posts back. You're hearing normal transition stepping of the digital attenuation CMOS gates. This should only be audible at the upper volume levels, around 75% or higher.
  
 Use a high source volume (digital or analog), and a low volume at the amp for best results.


----------



## kaushama

I have got John's JDS Labs C5S. It works with both Samsung i9500 (Galaxy S4 International version) and Samsung Note 10.1 2014 LTE (SM-P605) without any mod. It supports all the android apps such as stock music and audio players, Neutron and poweramp.
Sound quality is fantastic!!! (-:
It ends a journey for a portable Android device on the go, specially watching those movies during a flight!!!


----------



## miceblue

I received a free review unit from JDS Labs (Thank you so much by the way! The blemishes on the case aren't all that bad) and I've been testing things with the Camera Connection Kit.





Is this connection a true digital out connection? I can still adjust the digital volume in the Music app, unlike when you use a line out dock (in which it just disappears). On the other hand, when I turn off the C5D with this connection, the audio on the iDevice stops playing.


I'll post sonic impressions later. I'm too busy enjoying this setup with Kirby remix songs. XD
I'll also upload a silent unboxing video to my YouTube channel later tomorrow.
It's live!

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTkRM6WrArg[/video]



As for initial impressions, the middle switch of the bass boost selector is nice, but it takes some getting used to adjusting it. In my unboxing video, I kind of fumbled with its sensitivity to switch since it was the first tri-position switch I've used, at least to my knowledge. Also it may be due to it being new, but the digital potentiometer seems stiffer than on my C5, which is a good thing.

I'm a bit confused with the charge vs battery options. Does an iDevice charge the C5D? I flipped the switch to charge and the LED indicator turns blue in this setup.

The finish on the black C5D is the same as that of the new ODAC case, which means it shows greasy fingerprints fairly easily. It doesn't have the same chalkboard-like matte finish the red C5 did. The chalkboard-like finish was nice since it didn't show fingerprints, but if you don't like the sound/feeling of nails on a chalkboard, then this new finish might be better for you.

Somewhat glossy ODAC case, matte-finished red C5, the same somewhat glossy black C5D

I don't have any Android devices around at the moment, but some of my friends have Android devices that I can test with.
This is the new miniUSB to microUSB cable that *jseaber* recently showed.


----------



## Zenthelld

Sorry to ask something that's probably been asked before. I've searched for a while but can't find the answer (though I know I've seen a similar issue before).

I got the C5D today and connected it to my 4.2.2 Galaxy S4. My phone recognised that it was connected with a message in the notification bar, but then when I tried playing music the seek bar just ran through the song really fast and no sound could be heard. I tried with multiple players (PowerAmp, default Samsung player and Play Music). This happened with Nova launcher and with TouchWiz.

I updated to 4.3 and I have exactly the same problem. Does anyone know what the issue might be? It can't be the cable can it? Seen as my phone recognises it at first. Thanks for any help anyone can provide.


----------



## zachgraz

zenthelld said:


> Sorry to ask something that's probably been asked before. I've searched for a while but can't find the answer (though I know I've seen a similar issue before).
> 
> I got the C5D today and connected it to my 4.2.2 Galaxy S4. My phone recognised that it was connected with a message in the notification bar, but then when I tried playing music the seek bar just ran through the song really fast and no sound could be heard. I tried with multiple players (PowerAmp, default Samsung player and Play Music). This happened with Nova launcher and with TouchWiz.
> 
> I updated to 4.3 and I have exactly the same problem. Does anyone know what the issue might be? It can't be the cable can it? Seen as my phone recognises it at first. Thanks for any help anyone can provide.


 
  
 Try switching USB debugging mode on...
  
 Take a look at this http://www.head-fi.org/t/652535/if-your-usb-dac-does-not-work-with-your-android-phone-try-this
  
 Hope it helps !


----------



## jimlenz

I am looking at this amp but am wondering if this will be any benefit for me with my Bose QC15.  I fly a lot and that is the only reason I have these headphones.  Would I benefit from the C5?  I pair the QC15 with my iphone 5 or Ipad.  Thanks  Jim


----------



## Varoudis

My problem with note2 4.1.2 I think is that sound is really low volume with usb and native music app


----------



## campj

Does the DAC work with ipod Classic? The only reply I saw to this question was "I don't think so." I'd like a definite answer if possible.

Thanks


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

campj said:


> Does the DAC work with ipod Classic? The only reply I saw to this question was "I don't think so." I'd like a definite answer if possible.
> 
> Thanks




No


----------



## campj

That's that then : /

Thanks for the info.


----------



## Zenthelld

zachgraz said:


> Try switching USB debugging mode on...
> 
> Take a look at this http://www.head-fi.org/t/652535/if-your-usb-dac-does-not-work-with-your-android-phone-try-this
> 
> Hope it helps !



Thank you for the reply. However, it hasn't fixed the problem : ( I've even tried using it with the trial version of USB Audio Recorder but the app doesn't even play : /

Edit: Tried with USB Audio Recorder again and managed to get sound, however it was in fast-forward...

Edit 2: Managed to get it to sound right through UAR by switching between the bitrate options, but it still won't work through other players. I need it to work through other players as UAR doesn't seem to play mp3 and generally doesn't have an enjoyable interface. And costs money...


----------



## baydude

zenthelld said:


> Sorry to ask something that's probably been asked before. I've searched for a while but can't find the answer (though I know I've seen a similar issue before).
> 
> I got the C5D today and connected it to my 4.2.2 Galaxy S4. My phone recognised that it was connected with a message in the notification bar, but then when I tried playing music the seek bar just ran through the song really fast and no sound could be heard. I tried with multiple players (PowerAmp, default Samsung player and Play Music). This happened with Nova launcher and with TouchWiz.
> 
> I updated to 4.3 and I have exactly the same problem. Does anyone know what the issue might be? It can't be the cable can it? Seen as my phone recognises it at first. Thanks for any help anyone can provide.




Touchwiz based ROMS does not support USB audio. I spent days trying all sorts of custom touchwiz based ROMS and none of them work. I only know of Aosp/CyanogenMod based ROMS that will support USB audio. I am currently using a Sprint galaxy s4 with custom cm11 4.4.2 and can play usb audio through any music app including poweramp and neutron.


----------



## Zenthelld

baydude said:


> Touchwiz based ROMS does not support USB audio. I spent days trying all sorts of custom touchwiz based ROMS and none of them work. I only know of Aosp/CyanogenMod based ROMS that will support USB audio. I am currently using a Sprint galaxy s4 with custom cm11 4.4.2 and can play usb audio through any music app including poweramp and neutron.



Thanks for the reply, but a lot of other people have said they can use USB DACs with stock android on the S4, and I've seen people say they can use the C5D specifically with the S4. I don't get why it wouldn't be working for me.


----------



## baydude

zenthelld said:


> Thanks for the reply, but a lot of other people have said they can use USB DACs with stock android on the S4, and I've seen people say they can use the C5D specifically with the S4. I don't get why it wouldn't be working for me.




It also depends on the DAC. I could get my Sabre tinyDac to work on stock touchwiz but not other DACs like the c5d. With cm, it works with every DAC.


----------



## Zenthelld

baydude said:


> It also depends on the DAC. I could get my Sabre tinyDac to work on stock touchwiz but not other DACs like the c5d. With cm, it works with every DAC.



Yeah, true. But like I said, other people have said that their C5D works with stock S4 once it's on 4.3


----------



## baydude

zenthelld said:


> Yeah, true. But like I said, other people have said that their C5D works with stock S4 once it's on 4.3


 
  
 Can you quote them so we can follow up and clarify that they are indeed using stock S4 Touchwiz w/ C5D and NOT w/ USB Audio Recorder Pro?
  
 From my understanding and based on the Android phones and USB DAC thread, Android still does not have FULL USB Audio and is still a top outstanding issue as identified in the Google Android issue tracking page here.
  
Steven Kondik who is the audio developer and forum member here has created full working USB Audio for Cyanogenmod and that is the only known ROM I'm aware of that will work w/ S4 w/ pretty much every USB DAC and every music app.


----------



## Apo0th3karY

Long shot, but by chance is there a Canadian boxing day sale on C5D? 

I missed out on the black friday sale and have a major itch to pick one up, especially since I have xmas money turning a hole in my pocket.


----------



## Varoudis

apo0th3kary said:


> Long shot, but by chance is there a Canadian boxing day sale on C5D?
> 
> I missed out on the black friday sale and have a major itch to pick one up, especially since I have xmas money turning a hole in my pocket.


 
 email John directly. from the jds site.


----------



## Varoudis

Very critical question!
  
 I have a G Note2 (UK version not from a currier, paid in full from expansys). I works great with C5D (official 4.1.2 or 3 I don't remember) but a couple of hours ago I got a message that I can update to the official 4.3! 
  
 Any experience with the 4.3?


----------



## Zenthelld

baydude said:


> Can you quote them so we can follow up and clarify that they are indeed using stock S4 Touchwiz w/ C5D and NOT w/ USB Audio Recorder Pro?



I've looked but actually can't find an example now, heh. But I'm sure I've seen someone say in a post that the S4 works with C5D through UAR on 4.2, but that 4.3 then allowed it to work with any player. I could be wrong, though...




varoudis said:


> Very critical question!
> 
> I have a G Note2 (UK version not from a currier, paid in full from expansys). I works great with C5D (official 4.1.2 or 3 I don't remember) but a couple of hours ago I got a message that I can update to the official 4.3!
> 
> Any experience with the 4.3?



Weird... Surely if it works with your Note 2 it should work with my S4 : / Are you using USB Audio Recorder or a different music player?


I have since found the USB Audio Player app which plays mp3 and is more user friendly, so it's not so desperate that I sort the problem now.


----------



## Varoudis

zenthelld said:


> I've looked but actually can't find an example now, heh. But I'm sure I've seen someone say in a post that the S4 works with C5D through UAR on 4.2, but that 4.3 then allowed it to work with any player. I could be wrong, though...
> Weird... Surely if it works with your Note 2 it should work with my S4 : / Are you using USB Audio Recorder or a different music player?
> 
> 
> I have since found the USB Audio Player app which plays mp3 and is more user friendly, so it's not so desperate that I sort the problem now.




I did the test with the Google music app. The one the the orange headphone icon.
No special configuration. Remember to turn the galaxy volume all the way up.


----------



## miceblue

I have no idea how Android works, but I got an Asus MemoPad for Christmas to use at school and it runs 4.1 Jelly Bean. It supports USB OTG so I can try it out that with the C5D later when I get the chance, after I find my way around Android. XD


----------



## Zenthelld

varoudis said:


> I did the test with the Google music app. The one the the orange headphone icon.
> No special configuration. Remember to turn the galaxy volume all the way up.



Huh? You shouldn't be able to control the volume on your phone if you're using the C5D through USB. I tried it just now and when I used my phone volume all it did was adjust the ringer volume.


----------



## Varoudis

zenthelld said:


> Huh? You shouldn't be able to control the volume on your phone if you're using the C5D through USB. I tried it just now and when I used my phone volume all it did was adjust the ringer volume.





All audio even the phone tones went through the dac. I suspect that the phone volume is similar to digital volume. With full volume it was the same as macbook to dac with full mac volume.


----------



## luisdent

I should have a c5d in a few days!  Woohoo!  Can't wait to test it.


----------



## Zenthelld

Okay, so I've had a play with the C5D using USB Audio Player and compared the sound to that of the S4's built-in DAC. I honestly can't hear a difference... With no bass boost on the C5D they're practically identical to my ear.

Now, that surely can't be right, right? I hear people complain about the Snapdragon S4 audio quality all the time, but people rant and rave about the C5D. I'd like to think I'm doing something wrong and somehow not hearing the C5D but the S4 passing straight through. Is this possible, though?


----------



## headwhacker

zenthelld said:


> Okay, so I've had a play with the C5D using USB Audio Player and compared the sound to that of the S4's built-in DAC. I honestly can't hear a difference... With no bass boost on the C5D they're practically identical to my ear.
> 
> Now, that surely can't be right, right? I hear people complain about the Snapdragon S4 audio quality all the time, but people rant and rave about the C5D. I'd like to think I'm doing something wrong and somehow not hearing the C5D but the S4 passing straight through. Is this possible, though?


 
  
 How do you connect the S4 to C5D when you want to listen to the built-in DAC in S4?


----------



## Zenthelld

headwhacker said:


> How do you connect the S4 to C5D when you want to listen to the built-in DAC in S4?



When I want to listen to the built-in DAC? I don't connect it, I just plug my headphones straight into my phone. When listening to the C5D I connect via the supplied OTG cable (and obviously plug the headphones into the C5D).


----------



## headwhacker

f198 said:


> Looking forward to your comparison with PHA-1. Thanks.


 
  
 Finally able to compare C5D, PHA-1 and O2.
  
 Soundstage-wise O2 is a bit wider than PHA-1 but not much and in turn wider than C5D. C5D though appears to have more depth.
  
 Detail resolution on the highs sounds the same for C5D and O2. PHA-1 is a little brighter.
  
 The mids are clean on O2 and a bit more forward than C5D. PHA-1 tends to be sibilant and appears to have more focus on the mids.
  
 PHA-1 is a bit punchy compared to O2. But O2 is a bit better in clarity and details. It is also tighter. Overall the difference is subtle in the bass.
  
 C5D appears to be not on the same league as the other 2. Have less detail and a bit muddy. That is with the bass boost at the lowest level. Turning the bass boost on gives it more volume in the bass and quite nice and enjoyable especially for bass heavy tracks. It doesn't appear to bleed into the mids but still lacks the clarity compared to O2.


----------



## f198

headwhacker said:


> Finally able to compare C5D, PHA-1 and O2.
> 
> Soundstage-wise O2 is a bit wider than PHA-1 but not much and in turn wider than C5D. C5D though appears to have more depth.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the comparison. Which headphones were used ?


----------



## headwhacker

zenthelld said:


> When I want to listen to the built-in DAC? I don't connect it, I just plug my headphones straight into my phone. When listening to the C5D I connect via the supplied OTG cable (and obviously plug the headphones into the C5D).


 
  
 Interesting. Both DAC/amp is in play on your comparison.


----------



## headwhacker

f198 said:


> Thanks for the comparison. Which headphones were used ?


 

 JH16


----------



## Zenthelld

I'm really sad to say that I'm thoroughly disappointed with the C5D. Well, I guess I'm not, I'm more impressed with the level of sound quality the Snapdragon DAC built in to my S4 provides. I'm just disappointed that for £250 I couldn't get a better sound than I already had. Oh well, it's all part of the experience.

So I ended up testing the C5D from a laptop via USB, listening to part of a song, then taking my headphone jack out and putting it into my phone playing the same song from the same point (the closest I can get to AB'ing). I can honestly say, with zero effects or digital tweaks used on my S4, and with the bass boost off on the C5D, they sounded absolutely identical to my ears.

The only difference I hear in them is that, when digital tweaks are applied to the S4 (via PowerAmp's bass and treble boosts) distortion can be heard at lower volumes (or any volume for certain tracks/passages, though the only song this bothers me on is Massive Attack's Angel). This isn't the case with the C5D at all. However, as mentioned by *headwhacker* in his comparison, the C5D can sound a little muddy, which the treble boost in PowerAmp fixes nicely, making me happy to put up with a little barely noticeable distortion now and then.


I don't mean to bash the C5D in any way. As I said at the start of this post, I'm more just impressed at the quality my S4's built in DAC provides (especially as people have knocked it, saying iPhone has more bass and timing, or that the Wolfson S4 blows it out of the water). Compared to the laptop's built in DAC there was no competition, so I'd recommend it to people looking for an upgrade in that regard.

So I guess I'll have to sell it... I'd keep it as an amp for my future T50RPs, but I'm sure I can get cheaper for that purpose.

By the way, all testing was done using PSB M4U 1 headphones.


----------



## Bajitopelu

campj said:


> Does the DAC work with ipod Classic? The only reply I saw to this question was "I don't think so." I'd like a definite answer if possible.
> 
> Thanks


 


kamijoismyhero said:


> No


 
  
 Even with a LOD cable is not possible?


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

That only by passes the amp section


----------



## Bajitopelu

I see, thank for the answer.


----------



## ostewart

zenthelld said:


> By the way, all testing was done using PSB M4U 1 headphones.




Not to bash the PSB as I have tried them, and they are great headphones, but they are made for portable use, they are not very revealing of bad sources. They are easy to drive too, amping isn't going to make a big difference.
Before you got the C5D you should have thought about if your headphones would benefit from having one.

I highly recommend waiting before you sell the C5D, test it with some more revealing headphones.


----------



## Zenthelld

ostewart said:


> Not to bash the PSB as I have tried them, and they are great headphones, but they are made for portable use, they are not very revealing of bad sources. They are easy to drive too, amping isn't going to make a big difference.
> Before you got the C5D you should have thought about if your headphones would benefit from having one.
> 
> I highly recommend waiting before you sell the C5D, test it with some more revealing headphones.



I did wonder if perhaps that was the case, after reading someone saying they liked certain headphones because they scaled well with equipment.

Also I never expected to hear any difference through the amp only, but surely I should be able to hear _some_ difference from the DAC.

However, I am keen to keep it. Could you recommend some cheaper headphones that scale well? Or common ones I could almost certainly find in a local shop? Do the Fostex T50RPs scale well, before and or after modding?


----------



## ostewart

I have not heard stock T50rp

But cheaper that scale well with amplification and what not are:
German Maestro GMP 8.35D (fine from portable source, better with amp, velour pads will make them more comfortable but takes some warmth away, which is where the bass boost helps)
SoundMAGIC HP100
German Maestro GMP 450pro
Beyerdynamic DT990/770


----------



## Zenthelld

Darn, I had a pair of HP100s as well. Wonder if Amazon will let me buy them and potentially return them again.

But again, does that not mainly go for the amp? Surely the DAC should make a bigger difference? Or at least some difference? Or are you saying those headphones will reveal a difference?

Thanks for your help by the way.


----------



## Jerryberry

Loving my set-up !!!


----------



## SkyBleu

jerryberry said:


> Loving my set-up !!!


 Oh, how the patriotic spirit is strong with this one! 'Murica!


----------



## ostewart

An amp will make more difference than a DAC.

But you should notice a difference from the DAC and amp both with the headphones I mentioned.
You should look at getting the HP100 again.


----------



## luisdent

ostewart said:


> An amp will make more difference than a DAC.



+1


----------



## jseaber

headwhacker said:


> Finally able to compare C5D, PHA-1 and O2.
> 
> Soundstage-wise O2 is a bit wider than PHA-1 but not much and in turn wider than C5D. C5D though appears to have more depth.
> 
> Detail resolution on the highs sounds the same for C5D and O2. PHA-1 is a little brighter.


 
  
 Doesn't PHA-1 have an output impedance of 10 ohms or so? This should create a very audible difference from O2 and C5D with your 18 ohm headphones.
  


jerryberry said:


> Loving my set-up !!!


 
  
 Looks awesome!


----------



## headwhacker

jseaber said:


> Doesn't PHA-1 have an output impedance of 10 ohms or so? This should create a very audible difference from O2 and C5D with your 18 ohm headphones.


 
 There is difference but not the magnitude I was expecting. To be honest, I am surprise as well. Perhaps I need to run a few more tracks do more comparison.
  
 It's not the same difference I hear when I demoed AK120 and compared it to C5D.


----------



## luisdent

jseaber said:


> headwhacker said:
> 
> 
> > Finally able to compare C5D, PHA-1 and O2.
> ...



Yes. I've found output impedance to be the single greatest influence of a change in sound with some phones. Much more noticeable than switching between amps or dacs. Not all, but a lot of them...


----------



## luisdent

Let the comparisons begin! 
  

  
  
 It's fittingly ironic that I'm going to be comparing the c5 and c5d with an a/b switch I made using a c5/c5d case.  hehe


----------



## d marc0

luisdent said:


> Let the comparisons begin!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Nice! Looking forward to your comparison mate!


----------



## Zenthelld

So, basically (just to clarify), the PSB M4U 1s are only ever going to sound as good as they do in my current setup, and if I want to hear any improvement in audio quality from the C5D I'd need to get headphones that scale better? But surely even with the HP100s, with their 32Ohm impedance, I'm not going to hear much difference... Or is there another factor I'm missing?


----------



## miceblue

So I've been doing some comparisons myself as well. I haven't been doing any serious listening though. I've just been listening to a test track that I usually use for soundstage/sparkle. I did approximate volume-matching with a 1 kHz sine wave generated from Audacity.
The "Drum Solo" track from this album:





So far from my brief impressions between the ODAC+C5D and the C5D, the ODAC seems to have a more natural sound with a larger sense of space/deeper soundstage and air. The DAC on the C5D seems to have a "flatter" soundstage.

Before the battery died with the C5D while comparing it to the C5 (using the ODAC as the DAC for both setups and using high-gain on both amps), there was something different about the C5D compared to the C5 from my listen, but I can't pinpoint what exactly. I think the C5's soundstage has a little more depth or something. The differences are pretty subtle though.


----------



## luisdent

O.k.  I've done some initial comparisons, and although I might get some flac for this, here are my findings:
  
 First, let me say that I've done the initial testing with my Sony MH1.  I'll be doing further testing with my other earphones, especially the ER4S, which are considered more critical of things.
  
 So far though, with the MH1 using the same lossless files, the C5D from the usb of my MacBook Pro sounds identical to the C5 from my iPod Touch 5G, which sounds identical to the iPod Touch 5G headphone output, which sounds identical to the digital output of the iPod Touch 5G to the C5D, which sounds identical to the Fuze v1 and ZipClip.
  
 Now let me explain this brief testing and give some opinions.
  
 First, again, I used all the same lossless files on each device and volume matched each device.  This is using no EQ, no effects, nothing but raw lossless audio.  I used tracks ranging from Christopher Cross to Dream Theater.  I compared a few seconds of each track, small sections of each track and tracks in their entirety.
  
 This was a full double blind test.  The connections were made without me or the person connecting them knowing which was which.  Each song was synced perfectly for playback so well that I could flip the switch back and forth and the timing had zero interruption nor volume change.  In fact, when I flip the switch quick enough it makes no noticeable audio disruption at all.  I can flip the switch back and forth repeatedly, and when I do it fast enough it literally sounds like I'm listening to the same song and I wouldn't even know anyone was touching the switch.
  
 It is very hard to rule out the brain, and last night I was listening to the C5D with the iPod and thought it sounded clearer somehow.  But I believe now that I was trying to hear if it was clearer and therefor thought it might be.  That is just my opinion.
  
 So, before you think I'm saying anything bad about the C5D, quite the contrary.
  
 The C5D is awesome.  Very awesome.  Every single device I have sounds better than the output of the MacBook Pro, which is really surprising.  The MBP output has noticeable noise, and lower fidelity in general.  Very disappointed in it myself, so much that I'd personally never use it.  For a speaker output the noise isn't as noticeable, but with earphones it seems much worse.  Anyway, the apogee duet costs around $500 new, the iPod touch with reasonable space (64gb) costs $400, the fuze+ costs roughly $100 or more when you add an SD card, but there are claims the fuze+ doesn't sound as good as the fuze (haven't heard it myself).  But as the fuze is discontinued we'll use the + as a price point.
  
 The point is, for any device with reasonable quality and storage capacity you're looking at a good chuck of change.  The C5D can be used with any computer/laptop and turn it into an amazing sounding device with all of it's large storage and it costs $250.  That's an awesome deal, since most people have a laptop or computer.  But it's not just isolated to computers.  It can improve the quality of a phone.  Throw in an SD card and you have a great sounding player that way as well.  Just look at what you get for that price in general:
  
 - uber portable compared to most desktop sound interfaces that don't suck
 - reference sound
 - amplification for harder to drive earphones/headphones
 - isolated battery mode which I believe would eliminate noise issues with some usb systems (such as grounding loops)?
 - a built-in reference amp that doesn't require usb (for devices not compatible with the dac functionality)
 - Two-point bass boost option that sounds great
  
 So I think it's an awesome investment for anyone who is an audiophile, even if you have other amps.  You can grab it and go, knowing that you'll be able to use it on pretty much any device.  It allows you to KNOW you're going to have reference sound.  It's an all-in-one package with a nice form factor.
  
 In terms of sound, I'm not jumping to any full conclusions yet.  I'll do a lot more testing with the more demanding earphones I have and see how it goes, but I'm predicting the results will be similar.
  
 But either way, great job JDS on the C5D!  I love how they threw the DAC right in the same case with the C5.  And their devices all have the same profile.  Very cool.  I'll report back with more testing results in a while.


----------



## d marc0

That is impressive @luisdent ! Thank you for all the effort. Appreciate it!


----------



## ostewart

Thanks for the detailed impressions!
Mine should be arriving soon, hopefully.

I can see me using this a lot with my new laptop when I dont wan't to take the iFi iDAC.


----------



## luisdent

Let the listening begin!  (a few hours ago. ha)


----------



## dnun8086

Has anyone tried the c5d using the amp and dac with the phonak 232 ?? Want to take the plunge but i know synergy can mess things up. I loved the c5 with the phonak using the line out on the iphone but i hear different things about the c5d. Any impressions cheers.


----------



## Zenthelld

*luisdent:* So you found the headphone out of the iPod Touch 5G to sound identical to that of the iPod Touch 5G connected to the C5D? That's weird... Doesn't this mean one of two things? 1) The iPod Touch 5G, C5D and Samsung Galaxy S4 Snapdragon all use the same DAC. Or 2) Different DACs passed a certain point of quality make no noticeable difference.

Or am I missing something?

Sorry if I seem to keep going on about this, it's just that I did a lot of research into different portable DAC/amps and read comparisons where people mentioned differences in soundstage and imaging etc. only to discover there apparently is no difference in DACs, only amps, either because your headphones require one or because the amp colours the sound.


----------



## luisdent

I





zenthelld said:


> *luisdent:* So you found the headphone out of the iPod Touch 5G to sound identical to that of the iPod Touch 5G connected to the C5D? That's weird... Doesn't this mean one of two things? 1) The iPod Touch 5G, C5D and Samsung Galaxy S4 Snapdragon all use the same DAC. Or 2) Different DACs passed a certain point of quality make no noticeable difference.
> 
> Or am I missing something?
> 
> Sorry if I seem to keep going on about this, it's just that I did a lot of research into different portable DAC/amps and read comparisons where people mentioned differences in soundstage and imaging etc. only to discover there apparently is no difference in DACs, only amps, either because your headphones require one or because the amp colours the sound.



I'll elaborate later. At work right now.


----------



## miceblue

I just traveled to work while using the C5D with my iPhone 4S and Camera Connection Kit. If you can manage to get a good configuration with these, the C5D adds a nice increase in sound quality over the iPhone 4S.

Good configuration as in:

 making sure the Camera Connection Kit actually stays in place in the iPhone since it is really, really easy to just "slip off," and especially in your pocket considering it adds another inch or two to the length of the setup.
 managing the USB-miniUSB cable since all of the cables I have are ~3 feet in length....it's not fun to wrap/coil those up either.

With the C5D, the instrument separation becomes better and the soundstage actually has some depth. Compared to the C5D, the iPhone 4S's headphone out sounds very flat in soundstage, lacks instrument separation, and has a wooly-sounding bass response. I was stupid enough to not bring a line-out dock connector with me, so I can't say how the amp part of the C5D compares to that of the iPhone 4S's, but I would imagine it being very similar to the C5. That being said, I'll have to make some comparisons about the iPhone 4S + C5D amp against the iPhone 4S + C5D DAC/amp combos.


----------



## ocelot2500

Hi all,
  
 I am sure this has been asked before, but how does the C5 pair with the HE-400s?


----------



## dnun8086

Thanks Miceblue much appreciated that's going to be my main set up so just an increase in sound quality will do just fine. Especially  instrument separation helps with the congested feel of the iphone 4s output. Anyone got any major complaints with the c5d ?? Must recommend Neco V4 headphone amp found on ebay brilliant guy awesome amp bit of op amp rolling optional :-D


----------



## miceblue

dnun8086 said:


> Thanks Miceblue much appreciated that's going to be my main set up so just an increase in sound quality will do just fine. Especially  instrument separation helps with the congested feel of the iphone 4s output. Anyone got any major complaints with the c5d ?? Must recommend Neco V4 headphone amp found on ebay brilliant guy awesome amp bit of op amp rolling optional :-D



It's not a complaint so much as a different sound from what I'm used to, but I still think the C5 has a wider soundstage from memory. I'll have to do more comparisons when I get the time, and when I have the room to bring all of this gear with me, hahaha. I usually used the C5, and now C5D while mobile listening and the C5D does sound more layered with a deeper soundstage but the C5 having a wider one.

I guess the only complaint per se I have about the C5D is that the bass switch is a bit counter-intuitive. The off position is the same as the C5, but the maximum bass boost is in the middle, and the mid-bass boost is at the other end of the switch. The other complaint I have but it's probably only related to the black C5D is the finish. I still like the chalkboard-like texture of the red C5's body compared to the smooth one of the black C5D since it was easier for me to grip.

I still find it really neat that the C5D can be charged from an iDevice when using the Camera Connection Kit.


----------



## luisdent

dnun8086 said:


> Has anyone tried the c5d using the amp and dac with the phonak 232 ?? Want to take the plunge but i know synergy can mess things up. I loved the c5 with the phonak using the line out on the iphone but i hear different things about the c5d. Any impressions cheers.


 
  
 My pfe112 sounds the same from the c5d as it does from the c5.  I don't have the 232 anymore, but with the results from all of my earphones I'd say it will sound identical to the 232/c5 together, unless of course the c5d dac improves the iphone model you have.  I haven't heard every iphone, but I've read they are not all created equally in terms of sound.  But I can't say anything for sure without having heard them all.
  


zenthelld said:


> *luisdent:* So you found the headphone out of the iPod Touch 5G to sound identical to that of the iPod Touch 5G connected to the C5D? That's weird... Doesn't this mean one of two things? 1) The iPod Touch 5G, C5D and Samsung Galaxy S4 Snapdragon all use the same DAC. Or 2) Different DACs passed a certain point of quality make no noticeable difference.
> 
> Or am I missing something?
> 
> Sorry if I seem to keep going on about this, it's just that I did a lot of research into different portable DAC/amps and read comparisons where people mentioned differences in soundstage and imaging etc. only to discover there apparently is no difference in DACs, only amps, either because your headphones require one or because the amp colours the sound.


 
  
 Yes the ipod touch 5g headphone output sounds identical to the ipod touch 5d using the c5d dac.  As for the using the same dac, I don't know if they all share the same dac, but I wouldn't expect them to necessarily have the same dac because they sound the same.  I do believe a dac will reach the point of diminishing returns in audibility.  So I guess you could say a dac past a certain point won't make any further audible improvement.  However, I believe audibility of details can be limited by your earphones to some extent.  Therefore, depending on the earphones or headphones you have one dac might have more apparent improvements than when comparing that same dac to another earphone/headphone.  Same goes for speakers.  Keep in mind this thing can power some speakers.  I've tested the c5 with my alesis studio monitor speakers with good results.  So the same thing goes for that, in that certain speakers might prove to show more differences than others.
  
 Alas, I haven't heard every headphone or speaker, so I can't say whether the c5d would improve "this or that" vs. something like an ipod dac.  Same goes for the amp.  What I can tell you is what I've tested all last night.
  
 Here was my testing methodology overview, what I tested and the results.
  
 First, I volume matched the ipod headphone output to the macbook-to-c5d output.  I used the macbook and ipod for two reasons.  First, in previous tests I've proven the fuze and zipclip to be indiscernible from the ipod touch 5g in my listening tests.  Therefore, if the pod is identical to the c5d I don't really need to compare it any further to the fuze other than a few basic listening tests just to rule out anything odd from the pairing.  With that being said, if the c5d is any better or worse than the ipod, I have a measuring stick to go by when comparing it to other devices that I'm familiar with.
  
 Second, the macbook and ipod are both easier to navigate through music with.  Both using the same lossless files again.  This time I did a much more extensive listening comparison.  Bear with me, because i'm going to go into details of what I listened to and why.  But first, I had both audio devices connected with the exact same 3.5 cables with the exact same length.  I performed the tests mostly with the etymotic er4s earphones with other earphones here and there just for the heck of it.  But the er4s have the highest impedance and are the most demanding of the earphones that I have, as well as being one of the most high quality sounding pair that I have, so I focused on those for the bulk of the listening test.
  
 I did a blind test using my ab switch (made from the beautiful c5 case).  For each song I first matched the playback to be literally identical (very time consuming, but worth it in my opinion).  This allows me to switch the switch instantly and not hear any playback difference in timing.  After syncing the songs the cables were connected to the switch without my knowledge.  I never knew which device was connected to which input of the switch at any time.  The cables were ran behind the table and back up again, so I couldn't (not would I anyway) follow them to see where they led.  I then put the switch in my lap and at that point inserted my earphones to start the comparison.
  
 I switched the switch lever back and forth as I felt necessary.  The songs were set to repeat, and in some instances I listened to the songs more than once.  I tried to use a combination of listening times.  I would start with a few seconds on each switch position and then compare the other.  Then I would listen to a good portion of the song to try and get a "feel" for the sound and then switch it and compare.  Then a few times I listened to the whole song and then switched and listened to the whole song again.  A few times I would switch the switch level very rapidly (a few times a second at least) to see if I could detect and changes that way.  Finally, whether I thought I could hear a difference or not, I forced myself to choose whichever switch position sounded best and then pause the laptop to determine which device I was listening to.  Then I'd repeat the whole process again on the next song.  Those are the basics.  If you have any questions on my testing methodology just let me know.
  
 I chose the following songs for the reasons indicated for each below.  I only did 15 songs, as this is extremely time consuming.  Here were the songs, details of what I listened for and results as to which I "thought" sounded better (remember, I forced myself to chose whether I though I could really hear a noticeable difference or not).  Please note that each song is from the best possible mastered version of the CD available (i'm too particular about my CD mastering quality):
  
*moody blues - the day begins (mobile fidelity)*
 Smooth strings and a lot of depth in the recording, listened for the 'body', warmth and realism of the strings and bowing details and clarity of each instrument overall and how well things stood out in the 'thickness' of orchestra.

*blackfield - my gift of silence*
 Thick mix of rock instruments and orchestra, listened for spaciousness and separation, bass and treble balance overall.  Tried to detect if either had more harshness or sibilance.

*bt  - suddenly*
 Excellent intro dynamics.  Listened for bass tightness and weight, overall depth and mixing clarity.  This song can be fatiguing under the wrong conditions, listened for any difference there.

*chick corea - spain*
 Great recording ambience.  Listened for the naturalness of the tape noise and depth of ambience as well as the micro details of each instrument.

*david benoit - freedom at midnight*
 Amazing recording.  Listened to the very good dynamic range to detect any difference, the overall mixing and frequency balance and the tight togetherness of the instruments.

*craig david - fill me in*
 Good stereo effects.  Listened for the overall left/right audio effects used and the distinction of hard panned instruments.

*dan fogelberg - part of the plan*
 Good acoustic test.  Listened for naturalness of guitars and strumming, presence of the percussion and how well low mixed instruments could be heard. 

*fourplay - moonjogger*
 Amazing recording.  Listened for the bass guitar string details, brightness of percussion and overall feel and mix.

*alan parsons project - time*
 Amazing recording.  Listened for the smoothness and depth of strings and the tightness of the drums as well as vocal harshness.

*bt - angels on my broken windowsill*
 Great dynamics and clarity.  Listened for depth between instruments and the dynamic stop-dead effects at parts as well as sharp detailed instrument accuracy.

*dave grusin - mountain dance*
 Good mix.  Listened for acoustic realism, bass presence (good bass quality, but relatively low in mix compared to some songs) and noise profile.

*christopher cross - sailing*
 Excellent mix.  Listened for the distinction of all the percussive "dings" and "tings" and the rightness and details of the bass specifically.

*david arnold - cancelled leave*
 Excellent depth and soundstage.  Listened for the depth and the smooth string details and overall cohesiveness of the orchestra.

*dream theater - Scene Two: I. Overture 1928*
 Thick mix.  Somewhat dynamically compressed track.  Listened for the ability to hear instruments in the dense mix, guitar body and kick drum tightness.

*jeremy soule - far horizons*
 Beautiful.  Listened for the depth and realism of the instruments (not even sure they're all real, ha), the warmth and thickness of the strings and the soundstage and noise/silence at quiet passages.
  
  
 Winner Summary:  C5D 53% iPod Touch 5G 47%
  

#WinnerSong Name1 c5dmoody blues - the day begins2 ipodblackfield - my gift of slience3 ipodbt  - suddenly4 ipodchick corea - spain5 c5ddavid benoit - freedom at midnight6 c5dcraig david - fill me in7 ipoddan fogelberg - part of the plan8 c5dfourplay - moonjogger9 ipodalan parsons project - time9 c5dbt - angels on my broken windowsill10 c5ddave grusin - mountain dance11 ipodchristopher cross - sailing12 ipoddavid arnold - cancelled leave13 c5ddream theater - Scene Two: I. Overture 192814 c5djeremy soule - far horizons15c5dfourplay - free range
  
 I have to stress that I was alternating between doing both very critical listening and a relaxing "take it all in" sort of listening. These results show almost perfectly that I couldn't discern between the two devices.  Statistically, there is no evidence of me having any clue which I was listening to.
  
 Subjectively, as I was doing the test, there were times I thought I could hear more micro details here or there, but after a few switches of the lever I usually determined I wasn't really hearing any difference and that i was probably "trying" to hear a difference.  But in almost every case I had to force myself to choose, because I couldn't actually hear any difference.  I was actually surprised at just how perfectly identical they sounded compared to each other when I had the timing perfect and could seamlessly switch between the two.
  
 So in conclusion, I don't there there is any audible improvement from the dac itself over the ipod touch 5g dac.  But let me reiterate that not all ipods use the same dac or amp and have differing reviews out there on the audio quality.  I've never been disappointed by the ipods I've had, but I have run into volume problems (not loud enough).  This is one area the c5 or c5d are awesome.  They provide PLENTY of power compared to an ipod.  So they can give you much needed power for more hungry phones.  Also, the c5d isn't just made for ipods.  So this is only a valid comparison in that case.  There are plenty of phones that are NOT as good as an ipod.  And in that case, since I've shown the c5d to sound identical to the ipod touch 5g, you can know that you will have excellent sound quality with ANY phone you can use the c5d with.  That's awesome.  Add to that any computer or tablet that is compatible.  Excellent again.
  
 I connected it to my ipad mini and ipad retina and it worked seamlessly just by plugging it in.  The laptop was just as easy, but with the one additional step of selecting the c5d in the sound preferences.  That's it.  Done.  Reference quality engaged.  
  
 For me, the c5d would be for that purpose.  My friend has a very cheap laptop from walmart that does not have a good sound chipset.  I can know that bringing over the c5d will get awesome sound from his laptop.  That is just a great peace of mind if you like to always have great sound on every device you have.  So, I consider this a good result.  I think the ipod touch 5g has reached a point of diminishing returns.  The c5d has also met this level of quality and sits atop the portable list of devices that I would truly call reference.  But remember that even though I consider the ipod touch 5g reference, that is under certain conditions, such as powering average sensitivity earphones.  Plug it into more demanding phones or speakers and it simply wouldn't even have the output, not to mention you'd be running it at max volume which increases a lot of negative sound specs.  The c5d has a lot more power and thus is more capable in general.
  
 I'll stop running on here and just conclude by saying that the c5d has proven to sound excellent and all of the features and usability of the c5d are some of the best I've seen (all-in one portable dac, multi-pint bass bost, excellent specs, awesome volume control and channel balance, powerful, small, etc. etc.).
  
 If I were to recommend the c5d (I highly do) it would be under these circumstances:
 your device...
 - is too quiet
 - has too much hiss or noise
 - doesn't have perfect frequency response (rolled of bass or treble)
 - doesn't have great stereo width
 - suffers from processing noises (chirps and whirs during song loading for instance)
 - has poor channel balance at any given volume
  
 or you...
 - like to travel and use unknown devices at any given time
 - want to downsize your amp and know you're getting reference quality
 - want a great bass boost option
 - want finer volume control steps
 - just want a sexy amp/dac combo
  
 There are probably more reasons, but those would be my main reasons I think one should go and grab a c5d.


----------



## zombywoof

Sorry if I missed something in your very thorough explanation, luisdent.  It appears that you used the analog headphone out on the iPod to connect to the C5D.  Is this correct?


----------



## luisdent

zombywoof said:


> Sorry if I missed something in your very thorough explanation, luisdent.  It appears that you used the analog headphone out on the iPod to connect to the C5D.  Is this correct?




No. i was using the macbook via usb to the c5d to take advantage of the dac. i compared that to the ipod touch 5g headohone output. i've compared the ipod headphone output connected to the c5 in the past, but that wasn't my goal with this session...


----------



## zombywoof

Thanks!


----------



## jseaber

miceblue said:


> I just traveled to work while using the C5D with my iPhone 4S and Camera Connection Kit. If you can manage to get a good configuration with these, the C5D adds a nice increase in sound quality over the iPhone 4S.
> 
> Good configuration as in:
> making sure the Camera Connection Kit actually stays in place in the iPhone since it is really, really easy to just "slip off," and especially in your pocket considering it adds another inch or two to the length of the setup.
> ...


 
  
 I have to agree with (1), when using a 30-pin dock of the older iPhone 4/4S. The Lightning connector for iPhone 5/5S is far less cumbersome to use:


----------



## FlySweep

I purchased this one (but I found it in (a now sold out) black) quite some time back and it works with my iPhone 4 w/o a problem.


----------



## Zenthelld

luisdent said:


> -Loads of useful and interesting information-




Thank you so much for the time and effort you've put into your comparisons : )

I can't imagine that Apple, Snapdragon and JDS all use the exact same DAC, so I think you're probably right that once you get to a certain point DACs don't have much more they can do, and/or the headphones have to improve to hear a difference.

I plan on buying the SoundMAGIC HP100s again, to see if they can detect a difference and also to fairly compare them to the M4U1s.

On another subject: Does everyone else find the C5D drains their battery quite quickly? The other night I listened to music for about an hour after having charged my phone to 100%, and when I checked afterwards it had dropped down 25%


----------



## bunnyfluffy

Can anyone comment on the usability of the C5D with a galaxy S4?


----------



## luisdent

zenthelld said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > -Loads of useful and interesting information-
> ...


 
  
 I thought it was draining my ipod battery the first time I used it, but then I realized I had been browsing and switching so many songs it was probably the screen brightness and everything else. ha.   The next night I used the ipod and just listened to music without playing with it and it seems to last a lot longer.  Can't comment on your phone though.  Does the c5d draw power from the phone?  I though it ran off its battery?  Does the usb connection simply cause the phone to use more energy to transfer the digital data?


----------



## Zenthelld

bunnyfluffy said:


> Can anyone comment on the usability of the C5D with a galaxy S4?



I use mine with the S4 i9505. It works via the USB Audio Recorder and USB Audio Player apps, but not with any other music player apps. I'm using Android 4.3 all stock. I don't know if the i9500 model works differently.

*luisdent:* Hmm, perhaps that was my issue as well. I'll try again later and see how it goes.


----------



## bunnyfluffy

zenthelld said:


> I use mine with the S4 i9505. It works via the USB Audio Recorder and USB Audio Player apps, but not with any other music player apps. I'm using Android 4.3 all stock. I don't know if the i9500 model works differently.


 
  
 Thanks! Do you find this setup easy to use and not clunky? Does the app work well? 
  
 Would you recommend that other S4 users purchase the C5D?


----------



## Zenthelld

bunnyfluffy said:


> Thanks! Do you find this setup easy to use and not clunky? Does the app work well?
> 
> Would you recommend that other S4 users purchase the C5D?



It is a little clunky, you need big pockets and a right-angled mini-jack for your headphones (as you'll likely want the USB end of your phone and the C5D pointing upwards in your pocket). The OTG cable that JDS Labs provide, while good quality, is a little cumbersome to use as it's straight, so may stick out of your pocket a bit. As for the weight, I'd say it doubles the weight of your S4. It's not heavy, but you obviously feel the difference.

The app is bare-bones but good enough. You can make playlists, shuffle, repeat 1 and repeat all. The interface isn't too ugly, either.

Would I recommend it? Depends. Are you only planning on using it for your S4? And more importantly, which headphones do you use?

Out of interest, do you have the i9500 or i9505 S4?


----------



## bunnyfluffy

i've got the i9505 and HD650's.
  
 I'm trying to find a portable amp that will adequately power them that also has a DAC. The C5D seems to be the only one that satisfies both conditions. (Fiio E18 might be underpowered)
  
 Yes, I will be using it with the S4 98% of the time.


----------



## luisdent

bunnyfluffy said:


> i've got the i9505 and HD650's.
> 
> I'm trying to find a portable amp that will adequately power them that also has a DAC. The C5D seems to be the only one that satisfies both conditions. (Fiio E18 might be underpowered)


 
  
 The c5 definitely powered my hd600 with no issue, and the 650 is pretty similar in sensitivity and the same impedance.  The E18 has some nice features, but the C5D has better dynamic range and a better volume control mechanism in my opinion.
  
 Also, the e18 says right in the specs only recommended for 16-150ohm phones.  The 650 are 300ohms.  That's twice the maximum recommended impedance.  Not sure how that would sound....  Just some thoughts.


----------



## jseaber

zenthelld said:


> I use mine with the S4 i9505. It works via the USB Audio Recorder and USB Audio Player apps, but not with any other music player apps. I'm using Android 4.3 all stock. I don't know if the i9500 model works differently.
> 
> *luisdent:* Hmm, perhaps that was my issue as well. I'll try again later and see how it goes.


 
  
 An S3 customer emailed yesterday with the following tip. I'm not sure if these results will also fly on S4. It's worth an attempt:
  



> I rooted the phone, am running http://www.cyanogenmod.org/ version of kit kat (android 4.4) and so far, apps such as pandora, netflix, google music, double twist work with the c5d.  Volume control on the phone also affects the c5d's output. (all tests include the phone connected via usb to the c5d) Netflix seems to have a small delay (audio lagging behind video) but it isn't too obtrusive.  Feel free to include this information (without my name) for your other users.


----------



## Zenthelld

Thanks for the tip! For now I'd rather not root my phone (especially as 4.3 complicates the process) but certainly plan to look into it in the future.
I do like the idea of being able to adjust the volume on the phone, as I sometimes find the lowest volume on low gain to be a little loud (such as in bed at night).


----------



## bunnyfluffy

jseaber said:


> An S3 customer emailed yesterday with the following tip. I'm not sure if these results will also fly on S4. It's worth an attempt:


 
  
 If the phone volume has an effect, then does that mean that the C5D is amping the phone's already amped signal?


----------



## miceblue

bunnyfluffy said:


> jseaber said:
> 
> 
> > An S3 customer emailed yesterday with the following tip. [COLOR=222222]I'm not sure if these results will also fly on S4. It's worth an attempt:[/COLOR]
> ...



Not necessarily. Whenever you connect a DAC to your computer for example, you can still adjust the computer's volume.


----------



## jseaber

miceblue said:


> Not necessarily. Whenever you connect a DAC to your computer for example, you can still adjust the computer's volume.


 
  
 Miceblue is correct. "Software" volume control is enabled in C5D, so you're able to control volume digitally from any supported device (computer, tablet, smartphone). Notice that iOS7 also allows you to control volume of a DAC.


----------



## aerolord

Sorry, maybe someone can direct me to an amp comparison between C5 and C5D? I will only be using a line out from my Sony Z Walkman... I did some search and did not find any thing related to what I'm finding.


----------



## ClieOS

aerolord said:


> Sorry, maybe someone can direct me to an amp comparison between C5 and C5D? I will only be using a line out from my Sony Z Walkman... I did some search and did not find any thing related to what I'm finding.


 
  
 I thought C5 and C5D has identical amp section and thus should sound identical as far as analog signal is concerned?


----------



## BB 808

aerolord said:


> Sorry, maybe someone can direct me to an amp comparison between C5 and C5D? I will only be using a line out from my Sony Z Walkman... I did some search and did not find any thing related to what I'm finding.


 
 If you're only only using line out from the Walkman save your $$$ and get the C5.  If you want to use the DAC with your computer, get the C5D.  The amp sections are supposed to be the same (or very similar).


----------



## aerolord

clieos said:


> I thought C5 and C5D has identical amp section and thus should sound identical as far as analog signal is concerned?


 
  
 I was told by the sales assistant that C5D sounds better, hence they are not selling the C5. But after researching for the past hour, looks like he is wrong. 
  
 Sorry to bother you, you seems to have done many amp review, do you happen to have a comparison between FiiO E12/E17 against JDS C5/C5D?
  


bb 808 said:


> If you're only only using line out from the Walkman save your $$$ and get the C5.  If you want to use the DAC with your computer, get the C5D.  The amp sections are supposed to be the same (or very similar).


 
  
 Thank you, for re-confirming that the C5 and C5D have similar amp! Looks like the sales assistant is wrong..


----------



## headwhacker

clieos said:


> I thought C5 and C5D has identical amp section and thus should sound identical as far as analog signal is concerned?


 
  
 Apparently some people hear differences between C5D and C5 despite having the "same" amp section. Just like the guys in Headfonia.
  
  
  
 I went for C5D because of the lower output impedance compared to C5 since I'm using low impedance ciems and the discount last Black Friday sale. 
  
  
 Maybe when you get a chance you could update your sub-$200 amp shootout and include C5D. I know it is well above 200 bucks but it would be a worthy comparison. Thanks


----------



## ClieOS

headwhacker said:


> Apparently some people hear differences between C5D and C5 despite having the "same" amp section. Just like the guys in Headfonia.
> 
> http://www.headfonia.com/jdslabs-portable-dac-the-jdslabs-c5d/.
> 
> Maybe when you get a chance you could update your sub-$200 amp shootout and include C5D. I know it is well above 200 bucks but it would be a worthy comparison. Thanks


 
  
 No disrespect to Mike, but I don't always agree with him when it comes to portable amps. Of course, I haven't listened to C5D myself so I really won't know.


----------



## Varoudis

clieos said:


> No disrespect to Mike, but I don't always agree with him when it comes to portable amps. Of course, I haven't listened to C5D myself so I really won't know.


 
  
  


headwhacker said:


> Apparently some people hear differences between C5D and C5 despite having the "same" amp section. Just like the guys in Headfonia.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


clieos said:


> No disrespect to Mike, but I don't always agree with him when it comes to portable amps. Of course, I haven't listened to C5D myself so I really won't know.


 
  
 Some people can hear Jesus too   
 Nothing bad with that


----------



## ostewart

My C5D just arrived


----------



## luisdent

clieos said:


> headwhacker said:
> 
> 
> > Apparently some people hear differences between C5D and C5 despite having the "same" amp section. Just like the guys in Headfonia.
> ...



See my recent comparison. The c5 is identical to the c5d even with a good source in the c5. So even though the specs are marginally different (well beyond audible specs), they sound identical in real life. Unless your earphones are extremely sensitive to the <2 ohm difference in output impedance, then they should sound identical.


----------



## bunnyfluffy

Can anyone compare the C5D to the Leckerton UHA-6S.MKII?


----------



## ostewart

Can't get it to work with my galaxy S3 

Stock, running jelly bean 4.3....

If I have neutron open and press play once the C5D is connected it just fast forwards all the songs...


----------



## SkyBleu

bunnyfluffy said:


> Can anyone compare the C5D to the Leckerton UHA-6S.MKII?


 
 I would like to know this too.


----------



## ostewart

Works with my nexus 7 rooted with custom ROM just not with stock galaxy S3. Just speeds everything up, films, music, YouTube...

Using it as just an amp ATM with iPod classic. The bass boost pairs perfectly with my GMP 8.35 D with velour pads.


----------



## Varoudis

Note2 with official 4.3 update (UK unlocked) works perfectly. 
S3 should be the same right?


----------



## ostewart

Yeah it should but it doesn't 

I know it's not the C5Ds fault as it works with my nexus 7.

Also with the USB recorder pro app it works but that only plays FLAC and I only have mp3 on my phone.

Mine is UK unlocked, got lent/given it by Graham Long (vice president of Samsung UK, got to know him from a hotel I worked at)


----------



## DanBa

ostewart said:


> Also with the USB recorder pro app it works but that only plays FLAC and I only have mp3 on my phone.


 
  
 USB Audio Player PRO (from the same developer) is able to play mp3.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/638387/best-android-music-player-app/240#post_10120655


----------



## ostewart

Thanks, it works but crashes....

I'll get it working one day. To be honest I dont use my phone much for listening, just wanted to test it for review purposes.


----------



## rckyosho

ostewart said:


> Thanks, it works but crashes....
> 
> I'll get it working one day. To be honest I dont use my phone much for listening, just wanted to test it for review purposes.




What version are you at? UAPP does that if your not on the latest version....update it if your on a lower version....hope that helps.


----------



## ostewart

I'll have to test various ways and whatnot. But I love neutron, In theory it should work 

I blame Samsung and their 4.3 update


----------



## H20Fidelity

I have a C5 unit on loan from a friend. I find it rather capable amp. Offers a good taste of neutrality and refinement, I've only really tested it with my Yamaha MT220 studio monitors so far, but I'm rather pleased with outcome.


----------



## gikigill

I have tested the C5D with the stock Note 3 running 4.3 and it runs fine with Neutron and Poweramp.


----------



## miceblue

The C5D works fine with the HTC Droid DNA. It took a little trial and error with software since it was running on 4.4.2 via CyanogenMod, but once it was working the owner of the phone fell in love with it with the Monster Diesel VEKTR headphone.
I have a photo, but it's on my camera's SD card, which is not with me at the moment.


----------



## ostewart

Maybe its my phone being stupid. Well I've been using it just as an amp with my iPod and the Westone UM Pro30, great combo but still on the darker side of sound. Love the C5 amp section (gave the C5 to my brother last year, couldn't remember what I was missing out on haha)


----------



## miceblue

I didn't realise that JDS Labs actually switched over to the bright dipping technique for the finish on all of their devices. The C5 unit I have is an early production unit then because there was someone else at the meet with a C5, but it was a lot brighter in colour and had a slippery smooth finish somewhat similar to that of the C5D unit I have.

Someone else at the meet also had a C5D and was using it with the Lightning Camera Connection Kit.


----------



## Guppy009

I thought i would just provide some feedback with the C5D and the HD598.  I am coming from a xonar stx and HD598, and the cowon j3 and westone 4.  It is nothing fancy, but i have to say i was considering buying the HE-400 as an upgrade - however after hearing what the C5D sounds like, it is really a noticeable improvement for the HD598!  I am no real audiophile, so I hope i get the terms right in terms of describing the sound.  I tried this with classical (mostly), rock, pop.
  
 IMO It noticeably opens up the HD598's.  It sounds very airy with this and it seems a bit more accurate imaging wise, perhaps because of a bit better detail.  I don't really think these 'add' any real brightness, it seems to be quite neutral. The bass boost (medium position) seems to give just the right amount for these headphones.  It can be put on the max and the bass does not take over the music, it adds that extra punch for songs that would warrant having it.
  
 I am hard pressed to find any major difference in the DAC performance (STX -> C5D (amp) -> 598) or (C5D (dac/amp) -> 598).  I think the amp makes the biggest difference by far.
  
 The real advantage IMO is being able to use this with my laptop as it was having trouble driving the HD598's which should be fairly easy to drive.  In any case, this brings the same sound when travelling in a very portable format.
  
 The westone 4 i didn't feel warranted an amp, but from the laptop again, its far better using the C5D.  I wont comment on the SQ difference as i didn't hear it long enough.  Nevertheless I am very pleased with it!


----------



## ostewart

Just using the amp section:


----------



## dbdynsty25

Silly, simple question:  can you adjust balance left to right with either the C5 or C5D?
  
 I'm realizing that I have a slight hearing deficiency in my left ear when I use my full sized (well compact) headphones...and I'd like to be able to shift the balance slightly to the left while using an amp.  I picked up a C&C BH2 to see if maybe it was an issue with my E12, but alas, it's my ears and not the equipment.  So just wondering if either model supports that...I would assume not since I've read most of this thread and I haven't seen anything mentioned, nor does it have a display of some sort to know where you stand.  I'll probably end up having to go back to the e17.


----------



## luisdent

dbdynsty25 said:


> Silly, simple question:  can you adjust balance left to right with either the C5 or C5D?
> 
> I'm realizing that I have a slight hearing deficiency in my left ear when I use my full sized (well compact) headphones...and I'd like to be able to shift the balance slightly to the left while using an amp.  I picked up a C&C BH2 to see if maybe it was an issue with my E12, but alas, it's my ears and not the equipment.  So just wondering if either model supports that...I would assume not since I've read most of this thread and I haven't seen anything mentioned, nor does it have a display of some sort to know where you stand.  I'll probably end up having to go back to the e17.


 
  
 Not directly with any "standard controls".  John would have to tell you if it were possible with arduino or something.  No idea on that.  But out of the box, no.


----------



## miceblue

I'm pretty sure you can't even with the Arduino board.


----------



## luisdent

miceblue said:


> I'm pretty sure you can't even with the Arduino board.


 
  
 Didn't think so, but didn't want to say as I wasn't 100% sure.  I doubted it though.  You could make a balance device yourself if you are geeky enough.   Sort of like an inline volume control for headphones, but make it per channel.
 http://www.laboratoryb.org/project-headphone-volume-control/
  
 Or even just the louder channel so you can turn that one down.  Just a though.  You could then use that for every device you use since it's your ear.  Just a thought.
  
 Or you could buy one   http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HZR-62-Stereo-Volume-Control/dp/B000H0K8VY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1275937961&sr=8-1&tag=vglnk-c43-20
  
 Lastly, if you're a real geek, you could find out exactly what value of the volume control makes the loud ear match the quiet ear.  Do this with a multi meter.  Then you could buy the proper resistor and simply solder it inline with your headphones, or make an adapter to plug your headphones into with the resistor in one channel.  Then you'd have a permanent, easy to use volume matching device with no moving parts or low quality materials.  Just get a good tolerance resistor.  That's probably what I'd do. ha.  Cheap too.  A few bucks probably.
  
 The only downside would be if for some reason your headphones were negatively affected by the resistor.  Depends on the headphones.


----------



## dbdynsty25

luisdent said:


> Didn't think so, but didn't want to say as I wasn't 100% sure.  I doubted it though.  You could make a balance device yourself if you are geeky enough.   Sort of like an inline volume control for headphones, but make it per channel.
> http://www.laboratoryb.org/project-headphone-volume-control/
> 
> Or even just the louder channel so you can turn that one down.  Just a though.  You could then use that for every device you use since it's your ear.  Just a thought.
> ...


 
  
 Yeah...all great ideas, but I'm not really into all of that resisters and whatnot.  Just want a simple, great sounding amp/dac to take care of it.  LOL...so back to Fiio I go I suppose.  
  
 Thanks for the tips guys...much appreciated.


----------



## Cata1yst

Considering looking at a c5d as a portable dac/amp combo. But based on what I've managed to read from this thread, most of you are c5 owners and generally people have not noticed too much change going from source to source with the c5d.

 Any of you c5d owners can comment on the built in dac vs the odac?


----------



## jseaber

miceblue said:


> I'm pretty sure you can't even with the Arduino board.


 
  
 There's no reason channel balance couldn't be programmed. It would require some extra thought is all.


----------



## miceblue

jseaber said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > I'm pretty sure you can't even with the Arduino board.
> ...



Oh really? : o
That would make for an interesting programing exercise. I didn't know it was possible to control the left and right audio channels separately given the nature of the current code.


----------



## luisdent

jseaber said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > I'm pretty sure you can't even with the Arduino board.
> ...


Cool. I wasn't sure because i didn't know if the code had access to the independent channels in any way... That's cool.


----------



## jseaber

miceblue said:


> Oh really? : o
> That would make for an interesting programing exercise. I didn't know it was possible to control the left and right audio channels separately given the nature of the current code.


 
  
 You'd have to heavily alter the volume control function and pushbutton behavior. Code already addresses the Left and Right potentiometer gangs independently, one after the other. This would be a major rewrite of existing firmware.


----------



## White Lotus

Can't wait to get my C5D. I have to wait a few weeks until the girlfriend will let me buy it.. Doh! Thanks for the reading, guys. 
  
 I demo'd one today, absolutely loved it.


----------



## Zenthelld

dbdynsty25 said:


> Silly, simple question:  can you adjust balance left to right with either the C5 or C5D?
> 
> I'm realizing that I have a slight hearing deficiency in my left ear when I use my full sized (well compact) headphones...and I'd like to be able to shift the balance slightly to the left while using an amp.  I picked up a C&C BH2 to see if maybe it was an issue with my E12, but alas, it's my ears and not the equipment.  So just wondering if either model supports that...I would assume not since I've read most of this thread and I haven't seen anything mentioned, nor does it have a display of some sort to know where you stand.  I'll probably end up having to go back to the e17.



What source are you using? Can you not adjust the balance on there?

Also, couldn't you have tested whether it was your ears or your equipment just by turning your headphones around? : P


----------



## dbdynsty25

zenthelld said:


> What source are you using? Can you not adjust the balance on there?
> 
> Also, couldn't you have tested whether it was your ears or your equipment just by turning your headphones around? : P


 
  
 Multiple sources.  On my X3 I don't use an amp and I can balance it out.  On my iPad via line out to my e17 or my BH2, I cannot do any adjustments.  Same thing with my Nexus 5...no adjustments.
  
 The weird thing is I don't notice the imbalance of my hearing on IEMs...only on headphones.  My Philips L1, my M100 and my M50s...all feel like they are louder in my right ear.  So maybe it's just how my ears adjust to the full sized cups that surround my ears, but I shot that theory down when I tried a Monster DNA and a M80...both of which were similar, and they are on-ears.  Who knows.  I'm a mess.  
  
 And yes, I've tried to turn the headphones around and the same issue persists...which is why I am pretty confident it's my ears.


----------



## Zenthelld

dbdynsty25 said:


> Multiple sources.  On my X3 I don't use an amp and I can balance it out.  On my iPad via line out to my e17 or my BH2, I cannot do any adjustments.  Same thing with my Nexus 5...no adjustments.




For your Nexus 5 you could download the PowerAmp app. It's an awesome player and includes the ability to adjust channel balance. I'm sure plenty of other players have it as well, but PowerAmp is my favourite.
Does a similar app not exist on the iPad? I don't know as I'm not an Apple guy.

That is weird about IEMs being fine. Have you seen a doctor?


----------



## dbdynsty25

zenthelld said:


> For your Nexus 5 you could download the PowerAmp app. It's an awesome player and includes the ability to adjust channel balance. I'm sure plenty of other players have it as well, but PowerAmp is my favourite.
> Does a similar app not exist on the iPad? I don't know as I'm not an Apple guy.
> 
> That is weird about IEMs being fine. Have you seen a doctor?


 
  
 Most of the time I'm streaming Google Music, so using an extra app/player is not the answer.  But for locally stored music, that's a great idea.
  
 As for the doctor...the imbalance is so slight, it's not worth the time.  If I adjust the balance on the X3 or one of the Fiio DACs...it's one or two clicks to the left...that's it.  In fact, if I listen to a headphone for over ten to fifteen minutes, I get used to it and it doesn't bother me as much.  I just don't think there is a good answer...I'll just have to stick with the DACs and sources that have the adjustment possibilities.  
  
 Thanks for the ideas!


----------



## ostewart

Listening to the C5D with my laptop and some Alessandro MS1 I recently got, sounds really good. The MS1 is not at all bright (as some think), the C5D is brilliant with them.


----------



## H20Fidelity

So I'm pretty much sold on the C5 amp, giving me good results with my cans and IEM's. I'm demoing C421 next week and will decide which one to purchase. I also have Leckerton UHA760 on loan but I need  more time with it to form any real opinions, I'm not terribly blown away with all pairings only a few in particular stood out. I'm finding C5 to have solid control and refinement, also gives a nice boost in detail plus it sounds clean, also seems to have a certain timbre that I like the sound of. 

 I'll tune in further once C421 arrives.


----------



## White Lotus

h20fidelity said:


> So I'm pretty much sold on the C5 amp, giving me good results with my cans and IEM's. I'm demoing C421 next week and will decide which one to purchase. I also have Leckerton UHA760 on loan but I need  more time with it to form any real opinions, I'm not terribly blown away with all pairings only a few in particular stood out. I'm finding C5 to have solid control and refinement, also gives a nice boost in detail plus it sounds clean, also seems to have a certain timbre that I like the sound of.
> 
> I'll tune in further once C421 arrives.


 
  
 Keep note - it's the 2227 edition you'll be listening to.


----------



## H20Fidelity

white lotus said:


> Keep note - it's the 2227 edition you'll be listening to.




Yes! I keep forgetting.


----------



## zachgraz

h20fidelity said:


> So I'm pretty much sold on the C5 amp, giving me good results with my cans and IEM's. I'm demoing C421 next week and will decide which one to purchase. I also have Leckerton UHA760 on loan but I need  more time with it to form any real opinions, I'm not terribly blown away with all pairings only a few in particular stood out. I'm finding C5 to have solid control and refinement, also gives a nice boost in detail plus it sounds clean, also seems to have a certain timbre that I like the sound of.
> 
> I'll tune in further once C421 arrives.


 
 I am looking forward to reading your impressions. I compared the C5 to the C421 2227 too and there was one winner for me.
 I am using it every day now, great little thing - I will tell you later which one I kept and why


----------



## SkyBleu

zachgraz said:


> I am looking forward to reading your impressions. I compared the C5 to the C421 2227 too and there was one winner for me.
> I am using it every day now, great little thing - I will tell you later which one I kept and why :bigsmile_face:



I looked into your profile, and I know exactly which one you kept, and probably why.


----------



## luisdent

The c5 is "clearly" better. Pun intended.


----------



## miceblue

I'm confused with the whole C421 thingamabob. Were there physically different versions, or was the op-amp the only thing different? I'm usually against "op-amp rolling" since a circuit for op-amp A might not be optimised for the same circuit for op-amp B.


----------



## ostewart

Just a different opamp, i had the AD8620 and loved it.


----------



## luisdent

Posted part one of my in depth c5 review...
  
 http://handtokey.blogspot.com/2014/01/new-video-review.html


----------



## H20Fidelity

zachgraz said:


> I am looking forward to reading your impressions. I compared the C5 to the C421 2227 too and there was one winner for me.
> I am using it every day now, great little thing - I will tell you later which one I kept and why


 

 I have C421 (OPA2227) with me, I'm really liking the sound it's giving me with my headphones. It seems to lean a touch cooler in tonality and clarity, sounds clearer than C5 in comparison, soundstage seems wider. However it doesn't seem to have quite the same (close) refinement/control as C5 though overall I like C421. Until....I plug my 10ohm Dunu DN-1000 hybrids into the amp. The high 10ohm (roughly) output impedance of C421 caused some rather obvious problems. My Dunu sounded hollow like someone sucked the mid range out or like the singer was coming through a tunnel. Go back to my fullsize headphones I really enjoy it.

 So I guess this will depend on a few factors which I decide. I think what C421 does to my headphones is worth the purchase as it sounds great, however losing the ability to pair with a majority of my IEM collection kind of takes away the glory. I'll pair C421 up with ER4S this afternoon once it's charged again and consult this further.

 So in a nut shell C421 great with my full-size headphones better than C5 to my ears minus some refinement but the high output impedance is really a bummer.


----------



## White Lotus

h20fidelity said:


> I have C421 (OPA2227) with me, I'm really liking the sound it's giving me with my headphones. It seems to lean a touch cooler in tonality and clarity, sounds clearer than C5 in comparison, soundstage seems wider. However it doesn't seem to have quite the same (close) refinement/control as C5 though overall I like C421. Until....I plug my 10ohm Dunu DN-1000 hybrids into the amp. The high 10ohm (roughly) output impedance of C421 caused some rather obvious problems. My Dunu sounded hollow like someone sucked the mid range out or like the singer was coming through a tunnel. Go back to my fullsize headphones I really enjoy it.
> 
> So I guess this will depend on a few factors which I decide. I think what C421 does to my headphones is worth the purchase as it sounds great, however losing the ability to pair with a majority of my IEM collection kind of takes away the glory. I'll pair C421 up with ER4S this afternoon once it's charged again and consult this further.
> 
> So in a nut shell C421 great with my full-size headphones better than C5 to my ears minus some refinement but the high output impedance is really a bummer.


 
  
 Perhaps try it on a full charge (if that matters). The C421 2227 was my "go-to" for IEM use for a number of months..


----------



## H20Fidelity

white lotus said:


> Perhaps try it on a full charge (if that matters). The C421 2227 was my "go-to" for IEM use for a number of months..


 

 The Dunu sounded really strange, they're only 10ohm, I haven't tried any others yet. I'll be sure to look into it with 32ohm IEM. 

 I'm assuming C421 behave normally with H-200?


----------



## White Lotus

h20fidelity said:


> The Dunu sounded really strange, they're only 10ohm, I haven't tried any others yet. I'll be sure to look into it with 32ohm IEM.
> 
> I'm assuming C421 behave normally with H-200?


 
  
 Yup - I have a few other sensitive IEMs that it behaved with too.
  
 The only thing to note - it's not a digital volume attenuator, so the very first few notches of volume have a slight lean, but as soon as it gets to any coherent stage of volume, it's gone.


----------



## headwhacker

h20fidelity said:


> The Dunu sounded really strange, they're only 10ohm, I haven't tried any others yet. I'll be sure to look into it with 32ohm IEM.
> 
> I'm assuming C421 behave normally with H-200?



 


What is the output impedance of C421? I'm guessing it's 2ohms or greater. A 10-ohm load will defintely alter FR response of the DUNU.

H-200 is 22 ohms perhaps it will work better with C421. I tried an 18ohm JH16 on AK120 (3 ohm) and it defintely affected the sound coming out of JH16.


----------



## White Lotus

JDSlabs claim the output impedance is 0.1ohms.. Up to you if you believe it or not!
  





  
  
 (Also not sure if that's the same for the 2227 edition as well)


----------



## H20Fidelity

I don't want to spoil the party but ClieOS says the output impedance is 10.7ohms. Now, if I remember rightly this may of been corrected in a revision of C421. I think we may need to contact ClieOS and get to the bottom of it.

 You can see in his review of C421 he mentions the OI. (where I found it earlier)

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/620775/the-sub-200-portable-amps-shootout-13-11-amps-compared


----------



## White Lotus

WE SUMMON THEE, @ClieOS 
  
 (Who's opinion I would definitely trust)


----------



## zachgraz

The first version had about 10 Ohm output impendance. The second version come with a black,
 brushed finish and he output impendance was reduced by 2 Ohms whch makes it ~8Ohms.
 The 2 Ohm reduction was often confused with "brought down to 2 Ohms",which is not true, afaik.
 Please wait for others to confirm this. I am using the later version and I can't complain.


----------



## H20Fidelity

It only seems to be the Dunu DN-1000 that behaves abnormal with C421, I've now tested other low impedance IEM like TF10, Rhapsodio RDB v1 Mini, they both sound fine. It's just the 10ohm Dunu that plays up.


----------



## ClieOS

zachgraz said:


> The first version had about 10 Ohm output impendance. The second version come with a black,
> brushed finish and he output impendance was reduced by 2 Ohms whch makes it ~8Ohms.
> The 2 Ohm reduction was often confused with "brought down to 2 Ohms",which is not true, afaik.
> Please wait for others to confirm this. I am using the later version and I can't complain.


 
  
 I am afraid zachgraz is right. The was an early confusion about the revised C421 being lower to 2ohm, but I believe it is indeed lowered by 2ohm (which makes it 8ohm). I never have the newer revised C421 for measurement as by the time, I had changed my focus to the newer C5. Was hoping C5 could have the AD8620 as well, as I am not really that big of a fan on OPA2227.


----------



## White Lotus

clieos said:


> I am afraid zachgraz is right. The was an early confusion about the revised C421 being lower to 2ohm, but I believe it is indeed lowered by 2ohm (which makes it 8ohm). I never have the newer revised C421 for measurement as by the time, I had changed my focus to the newer C5. Was hoping C5 could have the AD8620 as well, as I am not really that big of a fan on OPA2227.


 
  
 Thanks mate!


----------



## H20Fidelity

Well then, if someone was trying to sell their C421 this would obviously lower the sale price, considerably......


----------



## White Lotus

h20fidelity said:


> Well then, if someone was trying to sell their C421 this would obviously lower the sale price, considerably......


 
  
 OR SELL IT TO SOMEONE WHO NEVER SAW WHAT JUST HAPPENED


----------



## r2muchstuff

JDS blog:
  
The c421 Black Edition actually marks a small internal change. In response to In Ear Matters review in June, we swapped output ferrites from an 11 ohm part to a 2 ohm part (PCB has _not_changed). It’s an extremely subtle change which can be made to any c421. Black endplates are also available as an upgrade kit for current c421 owners.

This entry was posted in Uncategorized and tagged anodizing, c421, CNC on September 21, 2012 by jseaber.


----------



## ClieOS

10ohm, 8 ohm, it doesn't really matter that much. C421-AD8620 will still get my top recommendation to pair with an ER4S as one of the best sounding combo out there.


----------



## H20Fidelity

clieos said:


> 10ohm, 8 ohm, it doesn't really matter that much. C421-AD8620 will still get my top recommendation to pair with an ER4S as one of the best sounding combo out there.




Even with OP2227, C421 sounds pretty amazing with ER4S, so I can see where you're coming from, it's taken my ER4S to an entirely new level.

Anyway guys I ended up choosing C421, the C5 is going back in a week, but this isn't to say I may pick one up too soon and own both. They're both great amps, I just find C421 a little more for my tastes.


----------



## jseaber

r2muchstuff said:


> JDS blog:
> 
> The c421 Black Edition actually marks a small internal change. In response to In Ear Matters review in June, we swapped output ferrites from an 11 ohm part to a 2 ohm part (PCB has _not_changed). It’s an extremely subtle change which can be made to any c421. Black endplates are also available as an upgrade kit for current c421 owners.
> 
> This entry was posted in Uncategorized and tagged anodizing, c421, CNC on September 21, 2012 by jseaber.


 
  
 Output impedance of c421 was dominated by the output ground IC. Changing the output impedance ferrites still resulted in a higher than desired impedance, close to 10 ohms, if I recall.


----------



## Sinik

Hello, i have some questions about a portable setup i'd like to buy
  
 i got an ipod touch 5g with ios 7.0.4, so i'm using the lightning connector: i'd like to know if this setup will be possible:
  
 ipod --> cck --> usb a male to mini b male adapter --> jds labs c5d --> http://img.2dehands.be/f/normal/176233920_2-fiio-andes-e07k-occ-pure-copper-mini-to-mini-kabeltje.jpg --> arrow 4n --> headphones


----------



## ostewart

Thanks for the info John!
  
@Sinik That setup will work but you'll be double amping as the C5D doesnt have Line-Out, only headphone out. Why do you need the Arrow anyway, as the C5D already has a great amp section.


----------



## Sinik

@ostewart ah damn... i want the arrow because i've heard it's the best bass boosted amp... but i might wait for the arrow g5 that will come with an usb dac...


----------



## ostewart

The C5D has an excellently implemented bass boost, ask anyone here and most will agree JDS do the best bass boost!


----------



## H20Fidelity

The bass boost on the C5 here is one of the best I've heard. It does an excellent job of never clouding the mids, when you switch it on the mid range stays the same, unlike other amps that can form a slight veil. When I first switched it on with a pair if Takstar PRO 80 and some dub step it almost blew my head off. A sure focus around 80Hz somewhere.


----------



## Sinik

Haha i guess i need to hear it from someone who has heard both of them, the jds labs c5d and the arrow 4n and the soon to come g5. i'm getting tired about searching information on stuff, getting more and more mad about apple's stupid lightning connector!


----------



## Varoudis

bass boost is why I love c5d!!!! 
  
 I even use it with the DX50 for that reason! (I don't like software EQs and bass boost is all I need)


----------



## miceblue

Before the battery ran out of juice on the C5D, I did some quick comparisons on the bus between the C5 and they sound pretty much the same to me.

And yup, I like the C5D's middle bass boost option. It works out for more music genres that don't need the full bass boost.


----------



## luisdent

sinik said:


> @ostewart ah damn... i want the arrow because i've heard it's the best bass boosted amp... but i might wait for the arrow g5 that will come with an usb dac...


 
  
 The "best" is something of opinion and headphone model.  The difference between the jds labs and arrow is not that great.  I'd argue you have more options with the jds, because the boost is affected by the gain setting, so you effectively get 4 settings.
  
 Here's the difference graphed.
  

  

  

  
 The both roll back down, closer to 0db, at around 500hz and then very gently taper back to 0 at around 1000hz.  So, basically they both impact mostly the sub bass region peaking around the 40-50hz areas.  The c5 holds the bass at a fairly evenly boosted amount all the way down to 20hz or less.  The arrow boosts mostly the 40/50hz area and drops back down below that.
  
 But as you see with the c5/c5d, you get a few changes in the slope and shape of the boost based on the gain setting.
  
 Either way though, they are both within a few db of each other and within the same basic frequency regions.  The jds boost will sound a bit "fuller" if that's what you're after.  I like it because it hits the super duper low sub bass area so you get that awesome round, full bass tone when you need it. mmmmmmmmm  The arrow is good too though.


----------



## teohouse88

miceblue said:


> Before the battery ran out of juice on the C5D, I did some quick comparisons on the bus between the C5 and they sound pretty much the same to me.
> 
> And yup, I like the C5D's middle bass boost option. It works out for more music genres that don't need the full bass boost.


 
 it's very important for the music I usually listen to. tomorrow I will purchase this DAC/AMP definively.


----------



## Varoudis

luisdent said:


> The "best" is something of opinion and headphone model.  The difference between the jds labs and arrow is not that great.  I'd argue you have more options with the jds, because the boost is affected by the gain setting, so you effectively get 4 settings.
> 
> Here's the difference graphed.
> 
> ...




what software is used for these graphs?


----------



## miceblue

Oho man. I just played through some of Dust: An Elysian Tail on the bus and my gawd is it a friggin' AWESOME game. I can not believe this game was made by one guy, minus the voice acting and soundtrack. It's so friggin' beautiful!

[video]http://youtube.com/watch?v=taRJkbnEgK4[/video]



V-MODA Crossfade M-100 + JDS Labs C5D on max bass boost = super satisfying rumbling when you face smash an enemy or an explosion happens. The bass boost of the C5/C5D is simply AWESOME for gaming.


----------



## Zenthelld

So I've been playing around with the C5D as an amp only with my PSBs and I've discovered something I love. If I have the bass-boost on the C5D on full, and apply a bass-boost within PowerAmp, I can get some really nice sub-bass out of the PSBs. Up until now I thought they just weren't capable of any real sub-bass, and when using just the C5D bass-boost or just the PowerAmp bass-boost they aren't. But combining them together brings it out very nicely. It doesn't bleed into the rest of the music really, either, though on some tracks it can become a little fatiguing. It's mainly for using on ambient tracks that really rely on sub-bass.


----------



## luisdent

varoudis said:


> > Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> >
> >
> >
> ...


 
  
 You would have to ask JDS, as he graphed them.  I'm not sure about the arrow graph...
  
 On another note, I've finished my 2 part in depth c5 review if anyone is interested:
  
 http://handtokey.blogspot.com/2014/01/new-video-review-posted-jds-labs-c5.html


----------



## Ishera

I got some question for those who connect their c5 to a computer speaker. Does it work as a preamp or is it double amping? and do i have to max the volume on the c5 and use the volume control on the speaker?

  
 This is what im doing:
  
 dx50 line out -> c5 -> computer speaker
 laptop headphone out/speaker out(not sure if it recognize the amp and switch to line out) -> c5 -> computer speaker
  
 I tried using moderate volume on c5 and using a higher volume on the speaker against higher volume on c5 and lower volume on the speaker. There is a clear a difference in sound quality. Volume is maxed on both pc and dx50.
  
 btw my laptop speaker is Logitech z623.


----------



## luisdent

ishera said:


> I got some question for those who connect their c5 to a computer speaker. Does it work as a preamp or is it double amping? and do i have to max the volume on the c5 and use the volume control on the speaker?
> 
> 
> This is what im doing:
> ...


 
  
 I would put the volume of the c5 close to max and use the speaker volume so you get the best signal quality to the speakers.


----------



## Ishera

luisdent said:


> I would put the volume of the c5 close to max and use the speaker volume so you get the best signal quality to the speakers.


 
  
 With speaker volume close to zero.. I can't even max the C5's volume because it gets too loud already. I get a strong hiss when the volume on the c5 goes beyond certain point too.


----------



## desmoface

My old Arrow 12he's input jack has gone all pear shaped so I'm looking for a replacement. Although I'm not a basshead, I really enjoy the bass boost option on the arrow. It sounds like the JDS would be a good replacement. I could always just get another arrow, but I'd like to try something different. 

My headphones are Senn Amperiors, SR-60's, KSC-75's and RE0's (which really need the bass boost) and my source is an ipod.

 I'd like to thank everyone for all the informative posts as it's great information for someone trying to make a purchasing decision.

Steve


----------



## jseaber

luisdent said:


> You would have to ask JDS, as he graphed them.  I'm not sure about the arrow graph...
> 
> On another note, I've finished my 2 part in depth c5 review if anyone is interested:
> 
> http://handtokey.blogspot.com/2014/01/new-video-review-posted-jds-labs-c5.html


 
  
 We use a Prism dScope Series III.
  
 I've tested the Arrow 3G on the same audio analyzer, and its bass boost is also affected by gain.


----------



## teohouse88

Next Monday I will receive from Spain (I'm Italian) the Jds Labs C5D and then I will do my little review about this amp/dac comparing to Fiio E17... I hope this will be a bass boosting device...


----------



## luisdent

ishera said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > I would put the volume of the c5 close to max and use the speaker volume so you get the best signal quality to the speakers.
> ...


 
  
 I can't speak for your exact setup, but if all equipment is decent, the best configuration is usually to have the volumes louder closer to the source as long as there is no distortion.  In other words, have the player device maxed, then the intermediate devices and then use the final speakers for volume.  However, there are a few exceptions.
  
 If you want to control the volume without using the speaker volume, you would set the amp and speakers so that the loudest setting on the amp is the loudest setting you would listen to comfortably.  Then you can simply turn the amp up and down to control the volume.  You shouldn't lose much this way if the overall setup is good
  
 The second exception would be if any devices exhibit poor performance at certain levels.  Perhaps one device has too much noise if it's too loud.  Then leave that down and turn up the other device for instance.  But usually noise like that is hard to eliminate no matter what you do if it's inherent to the device performing poorly.
  
 At what point in percentages does the c5 start to hiss?  It sounds like the speakers are already powerful enough and you may not need the c5.  If you turn the c5 to 80% that is a good volume if that works with the speakers.
  
 With most systems I have, I find 80% is a good quality level.  Sometimes more than that can distort the device it's connected to from too much signal.  I would experiment more, but if you're using the c5 at less than 50% it would seem possibly unnecessary.  What speakers are these?
  


jseaber said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > You would have to ask JDS, as he graphed them.  I'm not sure about the arrow graph...
> ...


 
  
 Wouldn't you say the boosts aren't really that different though?  I prefer the super sub extension of the c5d for things like the er4s though personally, especially at half setting. mmmmmm.


----------



## Sinik

luisdent said:


> The "best" is something of opinion and headphone model.  The difference between the jds labs and arrow is not that great.  I'd argue you have more options with the jds, because the boost is affected by the gain setting, so you effectively get 4 settings.
> 
> Here's the difference graphed.
> 
> ...


 

 alright, i'm gonna go for the c5d, i don't have the patience to wait for the arrow g5 anyways.
  
 thanks for the infos!
  
 edit: will this work: ipod touch 5g --> apple cck --> http://plusbee.com/ebay/plusbeenew/img/UAM-BM-B5P.jpg --> jdslabs c5d --> headphones


----------



## ostewart

Another convert 
  
 I'm sure you'll love the C5D and also the cutomer service that comes with purchasing any JDS Labs product.
  
 I wonder what John will come up with next (Desktop O2 would be awesome, more power, more inputs and outputs + other stuff like a bass boost hehe)


----------



## desmoface

Alrighty then, my arrow is dead, so I just placed my order for the c5. Woohoo!

Steve


----------



## luisdent

> edit: will this work: ipod touch 5g --> apple cck --> http://plusbee.com/ebay/plusbeenew/img/UAM-BM-B5P.jpg --> jdslabs c5d --> headphones




That will work, but you are going to want a flexible cable and not just a small adapter...


----------



## Wyd4

Hopefully get my C5D tomorrow to play with my HD650's 
 Cant wait


----------



## Ishera

luisdent said:


> I can't speak for your exact setup, but if all equipment is decent, the best configuration is usually to have the volumes louder closer to the source as long as there is no distortion.  In other words, have the player device maxed, then the intermediate devices and then use the final speakers for volume.  However, there are a few exceptions.
> 
> If you want to control the volume without using the speaker volume, you would set the amp and speakers so that the loudest setting on the amp is the loudest setting you would listen to comfortably.  Then you can simply turn the amp up and down to control the volume.  You shouldn't lose much this way if the overall setup is good
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm not sure what volume percentage the C5 is at since there isn't any kind of onscreen indicator. I say hold increase volume to max for 3-7 seconds for a pleasant listening level. 6-11s then i get the hiss. These are very poor measurements but it should do.Even with low volume on the C5, I'm still picking up the sound c5 produces.There isn't any distortion when combined with really high volume setting on the speaker. The speaker sounded pretty nice without the c5 when connecting to my laptop and dx50 line out, but even better with the c5 in between. The speakers are logitech z623. Nothing special, budget 2.1 pc speaker.
 http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-980-000402-Speaker-System-Z623/dp/B003VAHYTG
  
 Am i double amping in this setup? Is c5 working as a preamp?


----------



## Sinik

luisdent said:


> That will work, but you are going to want a flexible cable and not just a small adapter...


 

 why? i mean, the apple cck is already a flexible cable... if i would take another flexible cable it would be even longer.. btw this will be for portable use mainly, i'm planning to buy a Aune T1 (or schiit magni/modi combo, another choice i can't make xD) for desktop use.
  
 and if i want to use it for desktop use, i already have a 3ft usb to mini usb cable.


----------



## desmoface

Awesome! I purchased the C5 and the LOD in your second video. Thanks for the tip.

Steve



luisdent said:


> Posted part one of my in depth c5 review...
> 
> http://handtokey.blogspot.com/2014/01/new-video-review.html


----------



## Varoudis

luisdent said:


> You would have to ask JDS, as he graphed them.  I'm not sure about the arrow graph...
> 
> On another note, I've finished my 2 part in depth c5 review if anyone is interested:
> 
> http://handtokey.blogspot.com/2014/01/new-video-review-posted-jds-labs-c5.html




And... what is the secret underneath?


----------



## miceblue

I'll get around to writing the C5D review and video when I get better. I caught a cold and my energy has been pretty drained.


----------



## desmoface

Hey gang, I have a totally newbieish questions. I ordered the regular c5 without the dac. I also ordered a lod for my ipod. Do I need to have the dac to use the lod from my ipod to the amp or will the regular c5 work with this setup? Ipod-->lod--->C5. Thanks in advance.

Steve


----------



## ostewart

Lod just bypasses the amp section of the iPod so it will work fine.

If you wanted to bypass the internal DAC you'd have to have an external DAC.


----------



## desmoface

Hi Ostewart, thanks for the reply. 

Steve


----------



## miceblue

Yeah, line out connections like from the Line-OutDock connector are in the form of a continuous-time signal (voltage), which speakers and headphones can use. For the LOD, it bypasses the iDevice's internal amp.

Your digital music is still converted to analog with the iDevice's Digital-Analog Converter (DAC). If you want to bypass this DAC, you'll need to extract the digital content via USB, typically, which is how the C5D works with the Apple Camera Connection Kit.


----------



## desmoface

Hi Miceblue, thanks, thats a great explanation.

Steve


----------



## luisdent

sinik said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > That will work, but you are going to want a flexible cable and not just a small adapter...
> ...



Sorry when i read cck i thought the adapter not the cable...


----------



## luisdent

desmoface said:


> Awesome! I purchased the C5 and the LOD in your second video. Thanks for the tip.
> 
> Steve
> 
> ...


Isn't that lod awesome? Well you don't have it yet, but doesn't it LOOK awesome?


----------



## desmoface

luisdent said:


> Isn't that lod awesome? Well you don't have it yet, but doesn't it LOOK awesome?


 

 Yeah, I've never used a LOD, I always just used a 3.5mm jumper.  I figured if I'm updating my amp, I may as well go all the way.  I also ordered some of those bands for bundling everything together, from ALO.  I'll have some pictures as soon as it all arrives...WOOHOO!!  Thanks again for the video/review.
  
 Steve


----------



## luisdent

desmoface said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > Isn't that lod awesome? Well you don't have it yet, but doesn't it LOOK awesome?
> ...


Sure. The lod is the cleanest way to go with an ipod/amp. The c5 is awesome with a classic. Like a marriage made in audio heaven.


----------



## desmoface

luisdent said:


> Sure. The lod is the cleanest way to go with an ipod/amp. The c5 is awesome with a classic. Like a marriage made in audio heaven.




Thats good news because I'll be using it with an Ipod Classic.

Steve


----------



## luisdent

desmoface said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > Sure. The lod is the cleanest way to go with an ipod/amp. The c5 is awesome with a classic. Like a marriage made in audio heaven.
> ...


That was my main player for 6 years until it died. When i got my c5 i was in heaven.


----------



## Sinik

desmoface said:


> I also ordered some of those bands for bundling everything together, from ALO.


 
 Hello, just fyi, i'm using 3m low profile dual lock: http://www.uline.com/images/product/Medium/HD_6600_M.jpg
  
 i prefer that than bands, it just looks nicer and there is nothing in the way


----------



## desmoface

That is pretty nice. I actually think I received something like that when I got my Arrow 12he. I think I may still have it around - I'll have to look at it. Thanks for the advice.

Steve



sinik said:


> Hello, just fyi, i'm using 3m low profile dual lock: http://www.uline.com/images/product/Medium/HD_6600_M.jpg
> 
> i prefer that than bands, it just looks nicer and there is nothing in the way


----------



## ostewart

I use 3M dual lock too, much cleaner look than amp straps.


----------



## headwhacker

I use a dual lock for my stack. C5D looks neat under DX50.


----------



## Sinik

is that the normal dual lock or low profile?


----------



## headwhacker

It's between the normal and the low profile height. I need a little clearance coz I have a micro SD to full SD extender/adapter sandwiched in between so I can use an SD card instead of micro SD.


----------



## desmoface

That is nice, I'll have to find some of that stuff. Where did you guys get that stuff? I'm finding it online but only in bulk quantities.

Steve


----------



## Sinik

oh i see  nice!


----------



## headwhacker

You can find one on eBay
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/KZ-B19-065-SD-to-Micro-SD-FPC-Extender-/321250404864?ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:SG:3160


----------



## Sinik

yeah but fcking apple doesn't make any kind of sd slot unfortunately xD and i just love the ui of ios... 
  
 desmoface: http://www.befr.ebay.be/itm/250856312855?var=550037866817&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649


----------



## luisdent

headwhacker said:


> It's between the normal and the low profile height. I need a little clearance coz I have a micro SD to full SD extender/adapter sandwiched in between so I can use an SD card instead of micro SD.


 
  
 I've been dying to try this.  So it works o.k.?  Have you thought about building some sort of protective backing?


----------



## headwhacker

luisdent said:


> I've been dying to try this.  So it works o.k.?  Have you thought about building some sort of protective backing?


 

 I've been using it for 2 months now and never had problems so far. I just covered the flat cable with a transparent tape so it sticks securely on the back of DX50. Then I put a 2nd layer of black tape to match the color of the DAP. I stack an amp using a low profile dual-lock fastener to make it neat. DX50 and C5D are identical in dimension. The adapter is totally hidden in between.
  
 The flat cable is strong enough and won't break easily. I bent it a few times and no sign of damage.


----------



## luisdent

N





headwhacker said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > I've been dying to try this.  So it works o.k.?  Have you thought about building some sort of protective backing?
> ...


nice. Have you tried a 128gb card?


----------



## headwhacker

luisdent said:


> N
> nice. Have you tried a 128gb card?


 
  
 Yes, that's what I'm using now since 64GB is not enough for me.


----------



## Varoudis

Hello,
  
 Do you think the jacks below might not be ok to use with C5D? they don't fit in the line-in cutout circle.


----------



## ThurstonX

varoudis said:


> Hello,
> 
> Do you think the jacks below might not be ok to use with C5D? they don't fit in the line-in cutout circle.


 
  
 Odd.  Aren't they just 3.5mm plugs (jacks are the holes into which plugs plug; jacks are fixed connectors, usually female; plugs are movable and generally male)?  Strange that they wouldn't be standard.  Maybe John can comment.


----------



## desmoface

Ahh..nice surprise in the mail this morning:






  
 Still using a crappy patch cable until my LOD comes in.  So far, this was definitely a worthy successor to my trusty arrow 12he.  WOOHOO!!
  
 Steve


----------



## Varoudis

thurstonx said:


> Odd.  Aren't they just 3.5mm plugs (jacks are the holes into which plugs plug; jacks are fixed connectors, usually female; plugs are movable and generally male)?  Strange that they wouldn't be standard.  Maybe John can comment.


 
 Well, fort of all 'jack' might not be the right tern if english is your native language  so forget the word and just use the picture hehe
  
 The plug you see are the standards but the 'line in' on the amp is not exactly on the 'faceplate' of the amp, the holes are a bit further back. i.e the plug can't go 100% of the length.


----------



## ostewart

Those jacks are standard, he was saying that the inputs on the C5 have a sunken bit. But normal jacks will for fine as the actual socket is not recessed.


----------



## BB 808

varoudis said:


> Hello,
> 
> Do you think the jacks below might not be ok to use with C5D? they don't fit in the line-in cutout circle.




Try plugging it in and have a listen


----------



## ThurstonX

varoudis said:


> Well, fort of all 'jack' might not be the right tern if english is your native language  so forget the word and just use the picture hehe
> 
> The plug you see are the standards but the 'line in' on the amp is not exactly on the 'faceplate' of the amp, the holes are a bit further back. i.e the plug can't go 100% of the length.


 
  
 Got it: length.  Nice, simple English word 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Well, give it a go, eh.


----------



## desmoface

Just a quick question; does the blue charging indicator lamp go out when charging is complete, or is there something else that indicates when charging is complete? Thanks!

Steve


----------



## Varoudis

desmoface said:


> Just a quick question; does the blue charging indicator lamp go out when charging is complete, or is there something else that indicates when charging is complete? Thanks!
> 
> Steve


 
 wait for it to go off!


----------



## desmoface

varoudis said:


> wait for it to go off!




Thanks Varoudis.

Steve


----------



## luisdent

desmoface said:


> Just a quick question; does the blue charging indicator lamp go out when charging is complete, or is there something else that indicates when charging is complete? Thanks!
> 
> Steve


 
  
 I'm just going off of memory here, but I think mine goes off when it's charged...  I could be wrong.


----------



## ostewart

Yeah it tends to go off once charged


----------



## desmoface

Hey everyone, thanks for the replies.

Steve


----------



## Phredd

desmoface said:


> Ahh..nice surprise in the mail this morning:




Mine didn't come with bands. Did those come with your C5?


----------



## Sinik

phredd said:


> Mine didn't come with bands. Did those come with your C5?


 

 i dont think so, those are alo audio bands, not jds labs.


----------



## desmoface

phredd said:


> Mine didn't come with bands. Did those come with your C5?




Sorry for the confusion, the bands came from ALO. Strangely, I had to sign for the bands and not the C5, LOL.

Steve


----------



## Phredd

I just got my C5D last week. I'm very happy with. I got the CCK so I've got digital out from my iPhone. I bought the Sennheiser HD700 just before that and I wasn't too happy with them connected to my receiver, but they sound really good with the C5D. 

So now I'm wondering if the HD700 would sound _significantly_ better with a desktop amp like the O2+ODAC. I've read that the HD700 is easy to power, so maybe the C5D is all I need. If anyone tried the HD700 with both, I'd love to hear your comments.


----------



## ostewart

I can try and Demo the HD700 with the C5D and O2 next week


----------



## ostewart

Not a big gamer, but been using the C5D with some modded Grado SR60 playing Battlefield Bad Company 2, works very well with bass boost on full. Now listening to music, I would say that the Amp+DAC together are a little on the lusher side of sound (comparing to the iFi iDAC which is pretty neutral and very detailed to my ears) but for the size, the C5D is amazing, really good pairing with the Grado SR60.


----------



## Cata1yst

phredd said:


> I just got my C5D last week. I'm very happy with. I got the CCK so I've got digital out from my iPhone. I bought the Sennheiser HD700 just before that and I wasn't too happy with them connected to my receiver, but they sound really good with the C5D.
> 
> So now I'm wondering if the HD700 would sound _significantly_ better with a desktop amp like the O2+ODAC. I've read that the HD700 is easy to power, so maybe the C5D is all I need. If anyone tried the HD700 with both, I'd love to hear your comments.


 
 Im also interested in the comparison between an o2+odac vs the c5d


----------



## miceblue

cata1yst said:


> phredd said:
> 
> 
> > I just got my C5D last week. I'm very happy with. I got the CCK so I've got digital out from my iPhone. I bought the Sennheiser HD700 just before that and I wasn't too happy with them connected to my receiver, but they sound really good with the C5D.
> ...



I find the ODAC to have a larger soundstage and better instrument separation. In terms of tonality and overall sound signature though, they're pretty close.

The C5 sounds pretty much the same as the C5D to me and the C5 has a similar tonality to the Objective 2.
http://www.head-fi.org/products/jds-labs-c5-headphone-amplifier/reviews/9198


> Here are my comparisons between the O2 and the C5:
> 
> O2 gives the sense of a larger soundstage with more air between instruments (a school cafeteria); the C5 sounds more boxed-in (a school classroom)
> O2 sounds a bit more dynamic; the C5 sounds a little duller (not boring dull, but instruments don't sound as "full" and don't offer the kind of grand sound you get from the O2)
> ...


----------



## Phredd

desmoface said:


> Sorry for the confusion, the bands came from ALO. Strangely, I had to sign for the bands and not the C5, LOL.


 
  
 No problem. Thanks for the reference. I just ordered them from ALO for $18.95 with shipping. Its a lot for plastic bands, but I can't find any others.
  


ostewart said:


> I can try and Demo the HD700 with the C5D and O2 next week


 
  
 That would be great. I may end up buying another JDS amp. I still need the C5D for carrying around the house.
  


miceblue said:


> I find the ODAC to have a larger soundstage and better instrument separation. In terms of tonality and overall sound signature though, they're pretty close.
> 
> The C5 sounds pretty much the same as the C5D to me and the C5 has a similar tonality to the Objective 2.
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/jds-labs-c5-headphone-amplifier/reviews/9198


 
  
 I just read that. Very nice review. I'm a little surprised you find the volume control increments too large, they're only 1 db. From your review, it sounds like it may be worth trying the O2, though I may wait to hear ostewart's comments with the HD700.


----------



## luisdent

phredd said:


> desmoface said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry for the confusion, the bands came from ALO. Strangely, I had to sign for the bands and not the C5, LOL.
> ...



I think it was adjusted in the c5d, but the c5 had a very sensitive volume "touch". You could do fine adjustments, but you had to flick the volume lever quickly. Otherwise, using it in a more normal fashion would cause larger volume steps than you might know it is capable of. A lot of people noticed this and though it didn't have as fine control. This is adjustable in the firmware, and i think they made it default to finer control easier with the c5d...


----------



## BB 808

phredd said:


> Mine didn't come with bands. Did those come with your C5?




@jseaber posted this last November: "We have rubber bands in stock. Mention your request during checkout and we'll send a few for free. These will soon be part of standard packaging (not quite there yet)."


----------



## jseaber

luisdent said:


> I think it was adjusted in the c5d, but the c5 had a very sensitive volume "touch". You could do fine adjustments, but you had to flick the volume lever quickly. Otherwise, using it in a more normal fashion would cause larger volume steps than you might know it is capable of. A lot of people noticed this and though it didn't have as fine control. This is adjustable in the firmware, and i think they made it default to finer control easier with the c5d...


 
  
  
 The default delay is 0.375 seconds before "scanning" quickly through volume steps. If you tap the control for less than 0.375 seconds, volume changes by only 1dB.


----------



## luisdent

jseaber said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > I think it was adjusted in the c5d, but the c5 had a very sensitive volume "touch". You could do fine adjustments, but you had to flick the volume lever quickly. Otherwise, using it in a more normal fashion would cause larger volume steps than you might know it is capable of. A lot of people noticed this and though it didn't have as fine control. This is adjustable in the firmware, and i think they made it default to finer control easier with the c5d...
> ...



Is this the same in both the c5 and c5d?


----------



## jseaber

luisdent said:


> Is this the same in both the c5 and c5d?


 
  
 Yes


----------



## luisdent

jseaber said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > Is this the same in both the c5 and c5d?
> ...


 
  
 My bad.  It seemed as though the C5D was easier to control.  But I am more used to the quick adjustment flicking I do, so maybe it was just that.  You did mention before that you could adjust that in firmware correct?


----------



## teohouse88

Is there anyone that is using his C5D with an iPhone 5 ios 7 and lightning connector?? How does it work?


----------



## luisdent

teohouse88 said:


> Is there anyone that is using his C5D with an iPhone 5 ios 7 and lightning connector?? How does it work?


 
  
 Yes.  Perfectly.  Plug it in and you get audio.  Use the iphone volume control or the c5d volume control.  No problems at all.  Just plug the C5D in when no audio is playing to be sure there are no glitches...


----------



## Varoudis

luisdent said:


> Yes.  Perfectly.  Plug it in and you get audio.  Use the iphone volume control or the c5d volume control.  No problems at all.  Just plug the C5D in when no audio is playing to be sure there are no glitches...




I believe that the iphone volume should be lways ful in order to get full bits (dynamic range)

Control the volume via the amp only!


----------



## Sinik

teohouse88 said:


> Is there anyone that is using his C5D with an iPhone 5 ios 7 and lightning connector?? How does it work?


 

 iphone --> apple lightning camera connection kit --> usb to mini usb adapter --> c5d --> headphones


----------



## jseaber

luisdent said:


> My bad.  It seemed as though the C5D was easier to control.  But I am more used to the quick adjustment flicking I do, so maybe it was just that.  You did mention before that you could adjust that in firmware correct?


 
  
 Yes, line 48:
  
https://github.com/jdslabs/C5D_Firmware/blob/master/C5D_Firmware/C5D_Firmware.ino


----------



## Phredd

teohouse88 said:


> Is there anyone that is using his C5D with an iPhone 5 ios 7 and lightning connector?? How does it work?


 
  
 Yes, I was thrilled at how easy it is. Just connect the Apple Lightning Camera Connection Kit to the USB cable with the amp and IT JUST WORKS! I just wish there was a shorter solution. I'm thinking about splicing the Mini-B connector to the CCK.
  
 Quote: 





varoudis said:


> I believe that the iphone volume should be lways ful in order to get full bits (dynamic range)
> 
> Control the volume via the amp only!


 
  
 I guess I should wait for John to respond, but I think this is just half right. Control the volume from the amp, but set the iPhone volume to just below than 100%. John said, "For digital volume, about 98-99% is ideal. Avoid using 100% to prevent overfill errors."
  
 Not only do I really appreciate the C5D, but John is very responsive, giving me extra confidence in my purchases from JDS Labs.


----------



## Varoudis

phredd said:


> I guess I should wait for John to respond, but I think this is just half right. Control the volume from the amp, but set the iPhone volume to just below than 100%. John said, "For digital volume, about 98-99% is ideal. Avoid using 100% to prevent overfill errors."
> 
> Not only do I really appreciate the C5D, but John is very responsive, giving me extra confidence in my purchases from JDS Labs.


 
 yes right. well 95% is pretty good. I use my DX50 to 250 from 255


----------



## Sinik

phredd said:


> I just wish there was a shorter solution. I'm thinking about splicing the Mini-B connector to the CCK.


 
 http://www.befr.ebay.be/itm/230998130944?var=530161989734&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
  
 i'll be using this as soon as it gets delivered


----------



## Phredd

sinik said:


> http://www.befr.ebay.be/itm/230998130944?var=530161989734&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
> 
> i'll be using this as soon as it gets delivered


 
  
 I already tried that. The adapter and the USB connector make for a long stretch.


----------



## luisdent

sinik said:


> teohouse88 said:
> 
> 
> > Is there anyone that is using his C5D with an iPhone 5 ios 7 and lightning connector?? How does it work?
> ...


 
  
 I'm just making a guess here, but is it possible the usb adapter is causing an issue and it isn't detecting the c5d?  Can you try a different cable just to test?  Stop all audio, plug in the cable, turn the c5d off and on again, try playing audio again...
  


varoudis said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > Yes.  Perfectly.  Plug it in and you get audio.  Use the iphone volume control or the c5d volume control.  No problems at all.  Just plug the C5D in when no audio is playing to be sure there are no glitches...
> ...


 
  
 I thought that too, but I had a chat with JDS about that and with most DACs they recommended using a little less than full, roughly -1db on the iPhone/iPod.  He would have to explain all the technicalities, but close to full anyway.  I think the differences are going to be negligible though...


----------



## ThurstonX

phredd said:


> I already tried that. The adapter and the USB connector make for a long stretch.


 
  
 Love your Beatles cartoon on the C5D


----------



## Phredd

thurstonx said:


> Love your Beatles cartoon on the C5D


 
  
 Thanks! Me, too.


----------



## fabifri

As i just ordered an C5D, i'll get interrested now. What i like most, and i didn't test the C5D yet, is the fast order processing, super support and the open-source design. PCB's are in clear view, no rubbed off microchips, Firmware is open source - and this leaves much room for tinkering around. 
 As i'm not really new to arduino, i am also interrested in changing the volume-switch behaviour and the setting of the filter. Because the low-latency filter is minimum-phase and the normal-delay-filter (FLT pin of PCM5102A to LOW) is a linear-phase-filter. In all my DACs and Software-Upsamplers i use the linear-phase-filter. To my ears, it sounds better, although it adds a little bit of pass-band ripple.
  
 So how easy (or *difficult*) is it, to reprogramm the ATMEGA with modified volume-switch delay and filter-setting? I think i will need an ISP-Programmer, which we have plenty of at our company, and then i guess that i have to flash the Arduino-bootloader *AND *my modified sketch. Can this be done with the original-arduino software? 
  
 kind regards
 Fabian
  
 (excuse my english please, as i'm from austria, thanks!)


----------



## jseaber

fabifri said:


> As i just ordered an C5D, i'll get interrested now. What i like most, and i didn't test the C5D yet, is the fast order processing, super support and the open-source design. PCB's are in clear view, no rubbed off microchips, Firmware is open source - and this leaves much room for tinkering around.
> As i'm not really new to arduino, i am also interrested in changing the volume-switch behaviour and the setting of the filter. Because the low-latency filter is minimum-phase and the normal-delay-filter (FLT pin of PCM5102A to LOW) is a linear-phase-filter. In all my DACs and Software-Upsamplers i use the linear-phase-filter. To my ears, it sounds better, although it adds a little bit of pass-band ripple.
> 
> So how easy (or *difficult*) is it, to reprogramm the ATMEGA with modified volume-switch delay and filter-setting? I think i will need an ISP-Programmer, which we have plenty of at our company, and then i guess that i have to flash the Arduino-bootloader *AND *my modified sketch. Can this be done with the original-arduino software?
> ...


 
  
 Use a pogo pin attachment with any ISP programmer:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spring-Loaded-Pogo-Pins-Receptacles-for-Jtag-/250546684662?pt=PCC_Modems&hash=item3a55bf02f6
  
 If you already have Arduino working with your ISP programmer, most work is done. Just place the boards.txt file in the appropriate directory, select the "C5" board in Arduino, then upload your new code.


----------



## pukemon

Just got C5D. still testing it. All I can say for now is my beyerdynamics DT770/250 feel like they're gonna bump off my head. In a good way of course.  

Sent from my SM-N9005


----------



## fabifri

jseaber said:


> Use a pogo pin attachment with any ISP programmer:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spring-Loaded-Pogo-Pins-Receptacles-for-Jtag-/250546684662?pt=PCC_Modems&hash=item3a55bf02f6
> If you already have Arduino working with your ISP programmer, most work is done. Just place the boards.txt file in the appropriate directory, select the "C5" board in Arduino, then upload your new code.


 
  
 Thanks for the Answer! just ordered the adapter!
 Did you made some listening-tests of the both filter-characteristics? And why is it set zu minimum-phase (low-latency) by default? I mean, low-latency is only usefull within studio-applications. In a headphone amp+dac it makes no sense to me, as latency does not matter here. Therefore i would leave the linear-phase (normal-latency) on by default. But maybe, you thinked about it, and have a good technical explaination - so i guess.


----------



## miceblue

Wow, I totally missed the C5D firmware download in the blog. I'll look through it now. XD

For anyone wondering where it is:
http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=722
https://github.com/jdslabs/C5D_Firmware


----------



## jseaber

fabifri said:


> Thanks for the Answer! just ordered the adapter!
> Did you made some listening-tests of the both filter-characteristics? And why is it set zu minimum-phase (low-latency) by default? I mean, low-latency is only usefull within studio-applications. In a headphone amp+dac it makes no sense to me, as latency does not matter here. Therefore i would leave the linear-phase (normal-latency) on by default. But maybe, you thinked about it, and have a good technical explaination - so i guess.


 
  
 Honestly, there is no audible advantage to activate the low-latency filter. In a logically equal sense, there's no disadvantage, so we left it enabled. Why not?
  
 As a final incentive, I kept thinking back to this reviewer at TI.com, who thinkss otherwise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


> "The PCM5102 is very easy to use and allow reaching very good quality. *The Apodising digital filter (Low latency) really improve sound rendering.* Decoupling recommendation on the negative rail is a bit short, increase the size of capacitor in Pin 5 to reach the be


----------



## Varoudis

jseaber said:


> Honestly, there is no audible advantage to activate the low-latency filter. In a logically equal sense, there's no disadvantage, so we left it enabled. Why not?
> 
> As a final incentive, I kept thinking back to this reviewer at TI.com, who thinkss otherwise. :wink_face:




Hehehe don't give links like this one to 'audiophiles'!
Their neural networks are trained (over fitted, neural network theory, to be correct hehehe) to believe the sound Of the specs or the forums! Nothing to do with ears!

Please people don't get crossed I'm one of you probably hehehe


----------



## jseaber

varoudis said:


> Hehehe don't give links like this one to 'audiophiles'!
> Their neural networks are trained (over fitted, neural network theory, to be correct hehehe) to believe the sound Of the specs or the forums! Nothing to do with ears!
> 
> Please people don't get crossed I'm one of you probably hehehe


 
  
 Hehe, true.
  
 Everyone in  the office participated in an A/B test for the low-latency filter. No one could hear a difference.


----------



## fabifri

jseaber said:


> Honestly, there is no audible advantage to activate the low-latency filter. In a logically equal sense, there's no disadvantage, so we left it enabled. Why not?
> As a final incentive, I kept thinking back to this reviewer at TI.com, who thinkss otherwise.


 
  
 Thanks for the Information. I just wanted to see the idea behind that. Maybe on the PCM5102A there is no audible difference between them. When i play with SoX or the DacMagic Plus i can hear the differences of the filters. But as the Firmware allows me to change it, i can experiment on it later on. But i like it, that you checked it, found no audible advantages and then you had a look at other reviews to form yourself an opinion. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The reviewer at TI.com apparently heard a difference, as he states "The Apodising digital filter (Low latency) really improve sound rendering". Your mates at the office heard no difference. So i can only guess, that the difference is not as audible than on the DacMagic...
  
Thanks again + kind regards
Fabian
  
PS: can't wait for the C5D - it has been shipped. Yeah!


----------



## Sinik

luisdent said:


> I'm just making a guess here, but is it possible the usb adapter is causing an issue and it isn't detecting the c5d?  Can you try a different cable just to test?  Stop all audio, plug in the cable, turn the c5d off and on again, try playing audio again...


 

 like i said, i don't have it yet, but phredd already got this adapter, maybe he could try that. are you using a genuine cck ? because i bought a copy on ebay, (very bad quality btw, i really don't recommend it) and sometimes my ipod writes that this cable is not certified by apple and may not function well with my ipod. but it's working just fine with me.
  im going to buy a genuine one as soon as the shop near to my place get some new ones (they currently dont have any in stock)


----------



## Phredd

luisdent said:


> I'm just making a guess here, but is it possible the usb adapter is causing an issue and it isn't detecting the c5d?  Can you try a different cable just to test?  Stop all audio, plug in the cable, turn the c5d off and on again, try playing audio again...


 
 Quote: 





sinik said:


> like i said, i don't have it yet, but phredd already got this adapter, maybe he could try that. are you using a genuine cck ? because i bought a copy on ebay, (very bad quality btw, i really don't recommend it) and sometimes my ipod writes that this cable is not certified by apple and may not function well with my ipod. but it's working just fine with me.
> im going to buy a genuine one as soon as the shop near to my place get some new ones (they currently dont have any in stock)


 
  
 Is someone having an issue with the CCK? Mine works with both the JDS cable and the adapter. I'd be happy to help someone who's having a problem, but I'm not sure what I would be trying.


----------



## Bananaheadlin

I have a few portable amps right now, but I am kind of missing the extra oomph oomph from the bass boost sometimes . Does anyone have any experiences comparing the C5 to the Pico Slim?


----------



## DarkShinigami34

Thought about equipping the C5D with a small USB mini adapter but decided against blocking the rear camera. Using the StarTech.com USB2HABM6IN 6-Inch Mini USB 2.0 Cable and genuine Apple Lightning to USB Camera Adapter. The sound from the C5D is wonderful! Thank you!


----------



## ostewart

Nice set up ^


----------



## Sinik

Hey, amp and cable adapter finally arrived, but like phredd has shown on picture, this cable adapter makes it too long and so it's a dangerous setup to carry.
  
 i've been looking for some other cables and found this, in case someone else would be interested:
  
 http://www.atelier-in.com/product.php?id_product=520
 http://usb.brando.com/usb-2-0-a-male-to-mini-b-5-pin-male-short-cable-90-deg-_p02277c032d015.html same as the above one but 12.6cm..
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-A-male-to-Mini-B-5-pin-male-cable-6-inch-15cm-Black-/260742306488 (looks like the one from darkshinigame34 i think but in black)
  
 and i think this one is the perfect cable: http://www.pacificcable.com/Picture_Page.asp?DataName=USBAM5MR-5IN
 found it on ebay!!! http://www.ebay.com/itm/10cm-Mini-USB-cable-right-angle-for-Creative-Zen-X-Fi2-/300503841459
 i'm gonna order one right now.


----------



## Phredd

bananaheadlin said:


> I have a few portable amps right now, but I am kind of missing the extra oomph oomph from the bass boost sometimes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry, I can't compare them, but the C5 has a 3db or 6db bass boost. I don't use either. My headphones have plenty of bass without the boost, but it's there if you want LOTS of bass.


----------



## Phredd

darkshinigami34 said:


> Thought about equipping the C5D with a small USB mini adapter but decided against blocking the rear camera. Using the StarTech.com USB2HABM6IN 6-Inch Mini USB 2.0 Cable and genuine Apple Lightning to USB Camera Adapter. The sound from the C5D is wonderful! Thank you!


 
  
 That does look like a good solution. I may do that since it's easier than splicing and I wouldn't risk ruining Apple's $30 adapter.


----------



## luisdent

darkshinigami34 said:


> Thought about equipping the C5D with a small USB mini adapter but decided against blocking the rear camera. Using the StarTech.com USB2HABM6IN 6-Inch Mini USB 2.0 Cable and genuine Apple Lightning to USB Camera Adapter. The sound from the C5D is wonderful! Thank you!


 
  
 THAT is a sexy engraving.


----------



## Sinik

some pics of my setup (thanks to darkshinigami for his setup )

  

 http://s30.postimg.org/4ro6dnm4d/20140124_001414.jpg
 http://s30.postimg.org/e0qcnrv0d/20140124_001808.jpg
 click on these links to see bigger pictures.
  
 now im waiting for that short angled cable to complete the setup.
  
 btw, i love the c5d, the bass is just perfect for me, i have lowered the db in equalizer to 7.0 db instead of 8.5 at 55hz. thanks for converting me luisdent & ostewart xD i think i'll never need any portable dac/amp combo anymore =)


----------



## DarkShinigami34

sinik said:


> and i think this one is the perfect cable: http://www.pacificcable.com/Picture_Page.asp?DataName=USBAM5MR-5IN
> found it on ebay!!! http://www.ebay.com/itm/10cm-Mini-USB-cable-right-angle-for-Creative-Zen-X-Fi2-/300503841459
> i'm gonna order one right now.


 

 For whatever reason, most of the resulting items from my USB A male to mini USB male query weren't at all what I was searching for. The USB cable in my previously posted setup was is one of Amazon's many add-on items that can only be tacked onto orders $25 and above; shipped it along with the FiiO RC-UE2 cable, also pictured.
  
 The cable for the Creative Zen X-Fi2 does look like the perfect match!  Seems like it would relieve some stress on both the lightning and mini USB ends when pocketing the setup.
 I'll have to try it out. Thanks for posting!


----------



## DarkShinigami34

ostewart said:


> Nice set up ^


 
  
  


luisdent said:


> THAT is a sexy engraving.


 

 Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I grabbed the Zelda image from someone who previously uploaded it for their engraving and decided to combine it with the Soul Eater image I used for my V-MODA Crossfade M-100's.


----------



## ostewart

Always happy to help, the C5D is all the portable amp/DAC you will ever need (until JDS Labs make a new better one)


----------



## Sinik

darkshinigami34 said:


> The cable for the Creative Zen X-Fi2 does look like the perfect match!  Seems like it would relieve some stress on both the lightning and mini USB ends when pocketing the setup.


 
 Yeah i really hope it will be fine with that one, i just hope that when they say "10 cm" they measure only the cable and that it does not include the connectors, as it might just be too short if those are included... i'll see... i also bought the 15 cm "straight at both sides" black cable from ebay just to make sure if that angled cable would be too short.


----------



## ostewart

Managed to A/B the C5D and O2 with the HD700 for @Phredd 
  
 Not a scientific blind test, nor could I perfectly match the volume. I used my iPod Classic as the source so the C5D was just used as an amp, the O2 also.
  
 Silver LOD to both amps, silver 3.5mm-6.3mm adapter.
  
 Tracks Used: Silverstein - Discovering The Waterfront (320kbps mp3) and Deolinda - Passou Por Mim e Sorriu (live, FLAC)
  
 The O2 has the upper hand in control and soundstage, the C5D sounds a tiny bit fuller and a little more intimate. The difference is not big, the C5D can drive the HD700 easily. Both amps sound great, C5D is excellent for on the go, the O2 perfect for home.


----------



## Phredd

ostewart said:


> Managed to A/B the C5D and O2 with the HD700 for @Phredd
> 
> The O2 has the upper hand in control and soundstage, the C5D sounds a tiny bit fuller and a little more intimate. The difference is not big, the C5D can drive the HD700 easily. Both amps sound great, C5D is excellent for on the go, the O2 perfect for home.


 
  
 Thanks ostewart!
  
 I appreciate that you took the time to compare them. I decided to get the O2+ODAC. Besides your comparison, so many good things been said about it. Plus the C5D is difficult to use all day in the house. I can't keep it charged, because the digital in is the same as the charging port.
  
 So, the O2 will be at my desk and I'll use the C5D for everywhere else.


----------



## ostewart

Great idea, I think thats the best thing really, O2 for home C5/C5D for portable. Then you have a great setup for everything/


----------



## headwhacker

phredd said:


> Plus the C5D is difficult to use all day in the house. I can't keep it charged, because the digital in is the same as the


 

 You can still charge C5D while it's hooked up to a USB source. Just turn the switch at the back to charge.
  
 On the road, just turn it off otherwise it will drain power from your source.


----------



## Phredd

headwhacker said:


> You can still charge C5D while it's hooked up to a USB source. Just turn the switch at the back to charge.
> 
> On the road, just turn it off otherwise it will drain power from your source.


 
  
 I didn't even think about charging it from my iPhone. I'm not sure that would help anyway. I may just end up with a dead amp and a dead phone.
  
 What I meant was, I can't charge the C5D from a power adapter while the USB is connected to the iPhone's digital out.
  
 I'm not faulting the C5D. It's made as a portable and it's great for when I'm not at my desk.


----------



## luisdent

ostewart said:


> Managed to A/B the C5D and O2 with the HD700 for @Phredd
> 
> Not a scientific blind test, nor could I perfectly match the volume. I used my iPod Classic as the source so the C5D was just used as an amp, the O2 also.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sexy.  How would you compare the hd700 to the hd600/650 if you've heard them?  I find the hhd600 sounds excellent from the C5.  No problem powering them, and the output quality is superb.


----------



## ostewart

I'm actually not a fan of the sennheiser line-up apart from say the HD25-1 II
  
 Too warm and laid back for my tastes, much prefer my German Maestro GMP 400.
  
 The HD700 is similar to the HD650 but slightly more refined and comfortable. Wider soundstage too. Can't comment much more as I don't have them here to A/B


----------



## luisdent

ostewart said:


> I'm actually not a fan of the sennheiser line-up apart from say the HD25-1 II
> 
> Too warm and laid back for my tastes, much prefer my German Maestro GMP 400.
> 
> The HD700 is similar to the HD650 but slightly more refined and comfortable. Wider soundstage too. Can't comment much more as I don't have them here to A/B


That's how i hear them too. Very accurate and flat overall, but on the warm, laid back side. The c5(d) sounds so good with any phones, but i love using flatter phones with it, because things sound so reference.


----------



## ScarboroSlim

darkshinigami34 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Very clean! I recently got a red C5, similar engraving...


----------



## molika

is there a silicone case for the c5/c5d.


----------



## BB 808

molika said:


> is there a silicone case for the c5/c5d.




No


----------



## FuzzHead

but what about the sennheiser momentum? Im interested in that particular headphone, which states it has max power handling of 200 mW how does this amp compare with that headphone?


----------



## molika

thx. would be nice to have one to protect it. how easy is it to change the aluminum case. I'm planning to use 3m dual lock to attach the amp to my dx50 and I'm not sure how easy is it to remove the dual lock later on wehen I don't need it any more.


----------



## ostewart

Dual lock comes off easily. Leaves no marks.

This amp will be fine with the momentum but the momentum doesn't gain much with amping.


----------



## headwhacker

I have been using dual lock to stick my amps at the back of DX50. They should come off clean and leave no marks at all.


----------



## molika

thanks guys, good to know the dual lock come off cleanly. cheers


----------



## ostewart

X3 > C5D


----------



## 05scissors

I'm taking my first steps in trying to identify the right DAC for me. I want to be able to using my headphones as well as (possibly even primarily) using my active speakers.
  
 Is the C5D appropriate for this role? It seems like people are saying good things about the transparency of this unit, but as there is only one output I'm guessing that even when using my monitors I would be using the headphone amp, and hence the signal would be amplified twice. Is this correct? Is it a problem?
  
 I have skimmed this colossal thread but the only relevant comment I could find was this, which is a similar but different scenario in which someone is using the C5 (without DAC) with some Alesis studio monitors (in my naivety I can't understand why you would use a headphone amp with active speakers).
  
 So would I get transparent results from such an arrangement? Or would I be better off with a separate headphone amp and DAC? If so does anyone have suggestions for alternative products?
  
 Hope that all makes sense.


----------



## ostewart

You'd be better off with a separate DAC and amp or get a DAC that has line out and a headphone amp. Like the iFi audio iDAC (not battery powered) or many others.


----------



## luisdent

05scissors said:


> I'm taking my first steps in trying to identify the right DAC for me. I want to be able to using my headphones as well as (possibly even primarily) using my active speakers.
> 
> Is the C5D appropriate for this role? It seems like people are saying good things about the transparency of this unit, but as there is only one output I'm guessing that even when using my monitors I would be using the headphone amp, and hence the signal would be amplified twice. Is this correct? Is it a problem?
> 
> ...


That was me. There is no real reason to use it with powered monitors, but i did it just as a test, and it worked perfectly with no loss of quality. Now the c5d would make sense if you want a good dac before the monitors, since the amp section doesn't degrade any quality. Another dac with line out would work fine too, but the c5d is pretty affordable and very reference.


----------



## desmoface

Hey everyone, thinking of pulling the trigger on a pair of Beyer DT-990's in 250 ohms.  Do you think the C5 would be able to power these phones?  Thanks in advance.
  
 Steve


----------



## ThurstonX

molika said:


> thx. would be nice to have one to protect it. how easy is it to change the aluminum case. I'm planning to use 3m dual lock to attach the amp to my dx50 and I'm not sure how easy is it to remove the dual lock later on wehen I don't need it any more.


 
  
 I use something similar and make a base using blue painter's tape, as it's designed not to leave residue.  YMMV, of course.


----------



## ostewart

desmoface said:


> Hey everyone, thinking of pulling the trigger on a pair of Beyer DT-990's in 250 ohms.  Do you think the C5 would be able to power these phones?  Thanks in advance.
> 
> Steve


 
 Yep it will drive them fine.


----------



## craighl4

First time poster, long time lurker.
  
 I currently have a FiiO E12 paired with an iPod Classic and a pair of Kef M500's.  I am getting a bit of hiss from the E12 between tracks and during quiet passages.  I am considering getting a C5.  Should I expect any hiss in my Kef M500's or will there be silence?


----------



## ostewart

There should be silence. The C5 is a very quiet amp, I have not heard any hiss with any of my headphones.


----------



## craighl4

ostewart said:


> There should be silence. The C5 is a very quiet amp, I have not heard any hiss with any of my headphones.


 
  
 Have you listened to an E12 before and have you noticed any slight hiss?


----------



## Earbones

craighl4 said:


> Have you listened to an E12 before and have you noticed any slight hiss?


 
 Yeah, the E12 hisses. So does the E11, but not as noticeably. Neither are terrible with cans, it's very noticeable with IEMs.


----------



## Sinik

hello, yes it will, well depending on the volume, when i'm listening to very quiete music, like some piano music, i hear a hissing with the c5d, BUT, i am usually listening my music very loudly, but if i put the volume down a bit, the hissing just disappears. same was with my fiio e07k but i had to put the volume even lower to not hear the hissing anymore. so i think that it will be better than with your fiio e12.


----------



## Vemon

Any1 use C5 with shure 535, is there any hiss?


----------



## BB 808

vemon said:


> Any1 use C5 with shure 535, is there any hiss?


 
 I have a Shure SE530 and there is no hiss with the JDS Labs C5.


----------



## miceblue

The C5 and C5D were built with earphones in mind, so I'm pretty sure the noise floor is sufficiently low enough for most earphones. XD


----------



## Vemon

Whats the difference between C5 and C5D in the amp section? They are the same or C5D is better than C5 as an amplifier. Since C5 is made for earphones, that means it cant drive my sennheiser hd 25 (70 Ω impedance)? How the sound signature is different from pico slim?
  
Thank you if any 1 can answer my questions.


----------



## Phredd

vemon said:


> Whats the difference between C5 and C5D in the amp section? They are the same or C5D is better than C5 as an amplifier. Since C5 is made for earphones, that means it cant drive my sennheiser hd 25 (70 Ω impedance)? How the sound signature is different from pico slim?


 
  
 The C5D is the C5 with a DAC. I believe the amps are the same. I also believe that the C5/C5D will work with high impedance headphones, depending on the sensitivity. The HD25 at 70 ohms doesn't even qualify as high impedance. I've used my C5D with both the HD700 at 150 ohms and the Westone W40 at 31 ohms. I have the volume low, but not all the way, with the W40. It does well with both at low gain.
  
 Don't know anything about the pico, sorry.


----------



## luisdent

phredd said:


> vemon said:
> 
> 
> > Whats the difference between C5 and C5D in the amp section? They are the same or C5D is better than C5 as an amplifier. Since C5 is made for earphones, that means it cant drive my sennheiser hd 25 (70 Ω impedance)? How the sound signature is different from pico slim?
> ...


 
  
 The HD600 is 300 ohms!  The c5/c5d power them with no issues.  The er4s is 100 ohms and quieter than most phones.  Still no problem powering them though.  The c5/c5d just says "give me MOAR!!!!"


----------



## campj

So C5 is birghter than the O2? I am considering buying one, but I read something along those lines somewhere in this thread and it makes me a bit apprehensive. Any clarification would be appreciated.


----------



## ostewart

It's not brighter to my ears, I think the O2 may have slightly more refined treble, but not exactly brighter.


----------



## campj

Cool, thanks. I really do love the O2, but I want something with bass boost and a smaller housing. C5 it is!


----------



## Phredd

campj said:


> Cool, thanks. I really do love the O2, but I want something with bass boost and a smaller housing. C5 it is!


 
  
 The C5D works directly with the iPhone and the Apple USB CCK ($29) if you want to bypass the iPhone amp.


----------



## campj

Thanks for the tip. If only I owned an iPhone. haha 

ipod Classic is my go-to, so I won't be buying a C5D. The DAC in the ipod works well enough for my needs anyway, I'm not listening to audiophile-mastered music.


----------



## ostewart

I mainly use the C5D as an amp, but it is great with my laptop when I dont want to take a huge rig around. It is a very flexible device, love it so much.


----------



## zeppu08

Any one tried to pair this to an iPod classic 5.5g (not rockbox) and m100 cans? Any feedback?


----------



## miceblue

zeppu08 said:


> Any one tried to pair this to an iPod classic 5.5g (not rockbox) and m100 cans? Any feedback?



Yup, well with the 5th gen, not 5.5. The line-out is kind of weird with the iPod 5th gen since you still adjust the iPod's volume, but it doesn't do anything.

Sorry for the low-quality photo; low-lighting destroys the image quality with the iPhone. >.>


Oh right, how does it sound? It has a pretty warm sound overall. I always found the iPod 5th gen to sound pretty warm and detailed with the M-100, and it's great for pop (Justin Timberlake), jazz (Fourplay) and electronic (Daft Punk). It's also relatively spacious-sounding for the M-100 and the C5/C5D and iPod 5th gen combo provides a more three-dimensional sound to the M-100, which I always thought lacked in width.

The C5/C5D and iPod 5th gen combo are my go-to rig for portable listening sessions.


----------



## zeppu08

miceblue said:


> Yup, well with the 5th gen, not 5.5. The line-out is kind of weird with the iPod 5th gen since you still adjust the iPod's volume, but it doesn't do anything.
> 
> Sorry for the low-quality photo. Low-lighting destroys the image quality with the iPhone. >.>




Nice! Thanks! Hmmm I don't get the volume adjusting part.. What do you mean by it and don't do anything? Does it bypass the iPod DAC too?


----------



## miceblue

zeppu08 said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > Yup, well with the 5th gen, not 5.5. The line-out is kind of weird with the iPod 5th gen since you still adjust the iPod's volume, but it doesn't do anything.
> ...



Yeah sorry, I wasn't clear on that. The iPod 5/5.5th gen both support line out, but for some reason you can still see the digital volume bar on the device (normally you can't adjust/see the digital volume). In Rockbox, the digital volume actually does change the volume level, but in the iPod operating system the volume changing doesn't do anything.

I don't believe there is any way to bypass the internal DAC of the iPod [Classic] series unless you buy an expensive (typically $500+ USD) "Apple certified" DAC unfortunately.


----------



## zeppu08

miceblue said:


> Yeah sorry, I wasn't clear on that. The iPod 5/5.5th gen both support line out, but for some reason you can still see the digital volume bar on the device (normally you can't adjust/see the digital volume). In Rockbox, the digital volume actually does change the volume level, but in the iPod operating system the volume changing doesn't do anything.
> 
> I don't believe there is any way to bypass the internal DAC of the iPod [Classic] series unless you buy an expensive (typically $500+ USD) "Apple certified" DAC unfortunately.




Ahhh.. Now I get it.. Based on your photo you are using the iPod OS right? Have you tried comparing it using rockbox OS+ the C5/C5D amp? Which one do you prefer most? SQ and EQ?


----------



## ThurstonX

miceblue said:


> Yeah sorry, I wasn't clear on that. The iPod 5/5.5th gen both support line out, but for some reason you can still see the digital volume bar on the device (normally you can't adjust/see the digital volume). In Rockbox, the digital volume actually does change the volume level, but in the iPod operating system the volume changing doesn't do anything.
> 
> I don't believe there is any way to bypass the internal DAC of the iPod [Classic] series unless you buy an expensive (typically $500+ USD) "Apple certified" DAC unfortunately.


 
  
 FWIW, I have Rockbox on my 6th (some say 7th) gen 160 GB iPod Classic, and with Line Out enabled, the wheel will "adjust" the volume (the indicator changes), but it does not affect the volume.  Gotta use the C5 to change it, as it should be.  Can't speak to Rockbox on other iPods/devices.


----------



## miceblue

zeppu08 said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah sorry, I wasn't clear on that. The iPod 5/5.5th gen both support line out, but for some reason you can still see the digital volume bar on the device (normally you can't adjust/see the digital volume). In Rockbox, the digital volume actually does change the volume level, but in the iPod operating system the volume changing doesn't do anything.
> ...



To me they sound the same, and yup I was using the iPod OS in the photo. I generally don't use the stock iPod OS since the middle button on the iPod is really depressed/non-responsive, which is used to select things; in Rockbox, I can just use the fast-forward button to select things.




thurstonx said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah sorry, I wasn't clear on that. The iPod 5/5.5th gen both support line out, but for some reason you can still see the digital volume bar on the device (normally you can't adjust/see the digital volume). In Rockbox, the digital volume actually does change the volume level, but in the iPod operating system the volume changing doesn't do anything.
> ...



Yeah I have that option enabled on my Rockbox firmware too. The digital volume still affects the output volume though as I can mute it in Rockbox and it'll be muted from the C5/C5D.


----------



## zeppu08

miceblue said:


> To me they sound the same, and yup I was using the iPod OS in the photo. I generally don't use the stock iPod OS since the middle button on the iPod is really depressed/non-responsive, which is used to select things; in Rockbox, I can just use the fast-forward button to select things.
> Yeah I have that option enabled on my Rockbox firmware too. The digital volume still affects the output volume though as I can mute it in Rockbox and it'll be muted from the C5/C5D.




OK maybe will try to rockbox my iPod too.. Will try them first.. Thanks for the feedbacks! Really thinking what amp/DAC I can use to my iPod and m100s for the moment.. Can't wait to get a try on the X5 + m100 for future upgrade too..


----------



## miceblue

zeppu08 said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > To me they sound the same, and yup I was using the iPod OS in the photo. I generally don't use the stock iPod OS since the middle button on the iPod is really depressed/non-responsive, which is used to select things; in Rockbox, I can just use the fast-forward button to select things.
> ...



I'm participating the FiiO X5 tour and I'll probably receive the unit in the next week or so-ish. I can PM you how it sounds with the M-100, and post here how it sounds with the C5/C5D.


----------



## zeppu08

miceblue said:


> I'm participating the FiiO X5 tour and I'll probably receive the unit in the next week or so-ish. I can PM you how it sounds with the M-100, and post here how it sounds with the C5/C5D.




Oohhh really!!? Thats sooo sooooo great! Maybe will be waiting your review on it the m100 and maybe + the C5D.. Hahaha!Thanks man.. Really into this too coz for my situation, I have no plans on upgrading my cans, or maybe after 5yrs I guess.. Haha.. Thanks man! Hope you'll get those X5 asap!


----------



## miceblue

Huh, that actually turned out better than I thought it would. The C5D (high gain) vs ODAC/O2 (1.0x gain) combo for the MrSpeakers Alpha Dog. The C5D's bass doesn't hit quite as hard and clean as the ODAC/O2, and the instrument separation and soundstage depth don't quite match up, but the overall sound signatures of the two are really close. If you need a portable DAC/amp, the C5D really does a great job!


----------



## zeppu08

miceblue said:


> Huh, that actually turned out better than I thought it would. The C5D (high gain) vs ODAC/O2 (1.0x gain) combo for the MrSpeakers Alpha Dog. The C5D's bass doesn't hit quite as hard and clean as the ODAC/O2, and the instrument separation and soundstage depth don't quite match up, but the overall sound signatures of the two are really close. If you need a portable DAC/amp, the C5D really does a great job!




Hi mice! I dont know if its in the same weight division but How can you compare that ADs to the M100s with the C5D on your iPod?


----------



## miceblue

zeppu08 said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > Huh, that actually turned out better than I thought it would. The C5D (high gain) vs ODAC/O2 (1.0x gain) combo for the MrSpeakers Alpha Dog. The C5D's bass doesn't hit quite as hard and clean as the ODAC/O2, and the instrument separation and soundstage depth don't quite match up, but the overall sound signatures of the two are really close. If you need a portable DAC/amp, the C5D really does a great job!
> ...



I actually haven't tried that yet, but I can do that on Friday when I get more free time. I was just about to pack up for tonight.

This is really weird, but despite the technical differences between the C5D and ODAC/O2, I actually like the C5D more with the Alpha Dog. The C5D has a slightly forward midrange (like the C5 as an amp) and it makes Pharrell Williams' voice sound like he's singing to me in Daft Punk's "Get Lucky" song, as opposed to away or from a distance with the ODAC/O2 combo. I'll need to approximate volume-match next time though; this was just a quick comparison.


On a technical note, the C5D is listed to support:
Audio Formats: 16/44, 16/48, 16/88, 16/96, 24/44, 24/48, 24/96

This Daft Punk album is in 24/88, and it loads much faster in Audirvana Plus than the ODAC, which doesn't support 88.2 kHz sampling rates at all and Audirvana has to re-sample the file.




Oh, I just checked the blog post:
http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=722


> I checked our firmware configuration, and 24/88 kHz is enabled for the USB controller! Interestingly, Windows does not acknowledge this rate as an option. It is enabled.



Sweet!


----------



## zeppu08

miceblue said:


> I actually haven't tried that yet, but I can do that on Friday when I get more free time. I was just about to pack up for tonight.
> 
> This is really weird, but despite the technical differences between the C5D and ODAC/O2, I actually like the C5D more with the Alpha Dog. The C5D has a slightly forward midrange (like the C5 as an amp) and it makes Pharrell Williams' voice sound like he's singing to me in Daft Punk's "Get Lucky" song, as opposed to away or from a distance with the ODAC/O2 combo. I'll need to approximate volume-match next time though; this was just a quick comparison.
> 
> ...




Looking forward to your comparison mice! Thanks!


----------



## Taistelu-Jaska

Has anyone compared the C5 to the Meier Stepdance or 2Stepdance?


----------



## Varoudis

I have c5d and quickstep both are amazing but the bass switch and the bass quality on the c5d is from another planet. Apart fromt he extra bass switch both are top!


----------



## Taistelu-Jaska

varoudis said:


> I have c5d and quickstep both are amazing but the bass switch and the bass quality on the c5d is from another planet. Apart fromt he extra bass switch both are top!


 
 Which one has better battery life? Which one would you recommend if they were priced equally?


----------



## Varoudis

taistelu-jaska said:


> Which one has better battery life? Which one would you recommend if they were priced equally?




More battery and functions = c5d!!
Good size too!!!


----------



## metaldood

How does C5D compare with E17/E18?


----------



## Varoudis

It's not only me but other comments that I read in the past.... c5d>>>> fiio


----------



## ostewart

Yeah, general consensus is that C5/C5D are better than E17 and other Fiio devices. Much prefer the C5D over the X3 as a headphone amp+DAC hooked up to a computer.
  
 Also i almost exclusively use the line out of the X3 to the C5D as the headphone out is too warm for my tastes,


----------



## zeppu08

Anyone tried to pair this with the shure 215 iems? Any feedbacks?


----------



## miceblue

zeppu08 said:


> Anyone tried to pair this with the shure 215 iems? Any feedbacks?



If they're at home, I can try the C5/C5D with my brother's SE-215CL.


----------



## zeppu08

Oh thanks mice! Haha I guess I need to subscribe on you! waiting too many reviews from you with m100, ADs and now for this shure 215. If all this works with the C5D, I'll be crazy to get one of this ASAP! Source will be still my iPod 5.5g U2 edition..

BTW, does the CL means color less on the 215CL?


----------



## munchzilla

does anyone have HiFiMAN RE-600 and the C5D and could tell me how it sounds? no noise at all hopefully?
 and well, quick comparison, using the C5D's DAC, against iPad 4th gen or iPhone 4S would be nice...  as I am familiar with how the RE-600 sound on those two. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 brighter/thinner/colder? fuller/richer/warmer? soundstage more 'defined'? anything on instrument separation?
  
 thanks!


----------



## Varoudis

zeppu08 said:


> Oh thanks mice! Haha I guess I need to subscribe on you! waiting too many reviews from you with m100, ADs and now for this shure 215. If all this works with the C5D, I'll be crazy to get one of this ASAP! Source will be still my iPod 5.5g U2 edition..
> 
> BTW, does the CL means color less on the 215CL?


 
 Btw I use c5d with my ipod5g rockboxed. In general you won't find any problems with it! just go ahead


----------



## ostewart

munchzilla said:


> does anyone have HiFiMAN RE-600 and the C5D and could tell me how it sounds? no noise at all hopefully?
> and well, quick comparison, using the C5D's DAC, against iPad 4th gen or iPhone 4S would be nice...  as I am familiar with how the RE-600 sound on those two.
> brighter/thinner/colder? fuller/richer/warmer? soundstage more 'defined'? anything on instrument separation?
> 
> thanks!




For one there will be no noise. I do not have the RE-600. But the C5D doesn't really have a sound signature as such. It just make everything cleaner and more detailed usually. With a slight soundstage boost. But then if you want to change the sound you have a bass boost.


----------



## miceblue

zeppu08 said:


> Oh thanks mice! Haha I guess I need to subscribe on you! waiting too many reviews from you with m100, ADs and now for this shure 215. If all this works with the C5D, I'll be crazy to get one of this ASAP! Source will be still my iPod 5.5g U2 edition..
> 
> BTW, does the CL means color less on the 215CL?



I always thought CL meant "CLear," but then their black model is clear too. XD
Maybe it is "ColourLess."

Anyway, some brief impressions of the C5D vs ODAC/O2 with the SE215. The SE215 sounds much more spacious and open-sounding with the ODAC/O2, but with the C5D, the instruments are conveyed with more depth and layering in the soundstage. To me, the C5D also sounds smoother in the upper-midrange/treble transition too. Even though the ODAC/O2 sounds cleaner to me in that instruments are more clearly defined and separated with more detail, the C5D sounds a little more realistic to me.

Test tracks:
CD rip of this

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeifT-ZpQC4[/video]


24/88 purchase

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m4ZkEqQrn0[/video]



Wow, that's another +1 for the C5D over the ODAC/O2. o.0

I should mention that the SE215 is harder to volume-match for me since they are sensitive and the ODAC/O2 is too loud for me past the channel imbalance region even at 1.0x gain (yet another reason why to get the C5D).


----------



## zeppu08

miceblue said:


> I always thought CL meant "CLear," but then their black model is clear too. XD
> Maybe it is "ColourLess."
> 
> Anyway, some brief impressions of the C5D vs ODAC/O2 with the SE215. The SE215 sounds much more spacious and open-sounding with the ODAC/O2, but with the C5D, the instruments are conveyed with more depth and layering in the soundstage. To me, the C5D also sounds smoother in the upper-midrange/treble transition too. Even though the ODAC/O2 sounds cleaner to me in that instruments are more clearly defined and separated, the C5D sounds a little more realistic to me.
> ...




Owkay then... Time to get up and search where can I get those C5D and throw my money on them like a boss! Hahaha

OT: do you have any idea how the se215 SE/LE sounds compare to the standard se215? And does the clear(for stage use) and black se215 sounds just the same? If you just had ideas..


----------



## miceblue

zeppu08 said:


> Owkay then... Time to get up and search where can I get those C5D and throw my money on them like a boss! Hahaha
> 
> OT: do you have any idea how the se215 SE/LE sounds compare to the standard se215? And does the clear(for stage use) and black se215 sounds just the same? If you just had ideas..



The SE215 LE is the blue one right? I think Shure stated that it has an enhanced bass response.
The colourless and black models should sound the same though.


----------



## zeppu08

miceblue said:


> The SE215 LE is the blue one right? I think Shure stated that it has an enhanced bass response.
> The colourless and black models should sound the same though.




Ahh do you think the C5D will still not be too booming when paired with the 215 SE and still perform well? Really thinking what to get, the SE or the standard..


----------



## BB 808

zeppu08 said:


> Ahh do you think the C5D will still not be too booming when paired with the 215 SE and still perform well? Really thinking what to get, the SE or the standard..


 
 If you use the C5 amp with bass boost off, there should be no booming with the Shure SE215LTD or any other IEM.  With the C5 bass boost turned on, you might experience some booming bass.


----------



## ostewart

My review of the SE215 vs SE215 SPE:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/643955/review-shure-se215-vs-se215-spe-blue


----------



## zeppu08

bb 808 said:


> If you use the C5 amp with bass boost off, there should be no booming with the Shure SE215LTD or any other IEM.  With the C5 bass boost turned on, you might experience some booming bass.


 

 Great review mate! Maybe because i just prefer the clear one than the blue.. but then ill be getting the LTD one.. THANKS AGAIN!


----------



## munchzilla

ostewart said:


> For one there will be no noise. I do not have the RE-600. But the C5D doesn't really have a sound signature as such. It just make everything cleaner and more detailed usually. With a slight soundstage boost. But then if you want to change the sound you have a bass boost.


 
 right, the no noise part sounds great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 soundstage boost sounds really nice. but I mean, I am just looking for tiny differences. clearer and cleaner and more detailed is a 'characteristic' compared to the iOS devices I believe. that's what I was hoping for. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 thanks!


----------



## ostewart

You pretty much nailed it, they are the improvements it usually brings.


----------



## teohouse88

Is there an european user using C5D with iPhone iOs 7? It's very important for me asking some questions about the configuration...I still have some problems...


----------



## JonathanCandel

Hi all...
  
 Thinking of buying the C5D for my JH Audio Roxanne's  So far, I have only read positive news on the C5D. Any thoughts?


----------



## Sinik

zeppu08 said:


> Anyone tried to pair this with the shure 215 iems? Any feedbacks?


 

 i'm using the shure se 215cl with c5d and ipod touch 5th gen, they sound great! i was using fiio e07k before the c5d and i really prefer the c5d over the fiio, the sub bass is just awesome on the c5d!


----------



## Vemon

JDS can engrave a picture on your amp? Any1 can show their engraved C5 or C5D. Thanks


----------



## ThurstonX

vemon said:


> JDS can engrave a picture on your amp? Any1 can show their engraved C5 or C5D. Thanks


 
  
 On C5:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/647838/jds-labs-c5-c5d-pg96-portable-amp-amp-dac-appreciation-discussion-thread/1065#post_9508984


----------



## miceblue

Is there a good way to [approximately] volume-match DACs? It's hard for me to do a fair ODAC/O2 vs C5D comparison since I have to switch the USB cable, wait for the device to be recognised, and play music. I'm just playing a 1 kHz sine wave right now and trying to volume-match that after listening to it for a good minute to get it burned into my head.

Listening to 1 kHz sine waves isn't very fun...


Bah, anyway. From general listening sessions, I find the C5D to have better synergy with the MrSpeakers Alpha Dog than the ODAC/O2 combo despite the technical differences. Technically, the ODAC/O2 has a harder-hitting bass, much better-defined instruments, well-extended treble, and is revealing of the headphone's characteristic sound. The Alpha Dog seems to have a treble peak that makes hi-hats sound artificial, and the C5D reduces that sound. It's hard to make the call on which combo sounds better though since I really enjoy the overall spacious sound of the ODAC/O2, its well-defined instruments, and easy-to-follow bass; it sounds more transparent to me with the exception of revealing the Alpha Dog's treble peak. The C5D has better instrument layering, a slightly soft treble response, a slightly more forward midrange, and overall sounds more musical. I hate using that word on the other hand since it's so vague; with the C5D, the Alpha Dog just sounds more groovy and I'm able to get into the music more. The ODAC/O2 sounds more sterile in that the music is just there.

Their overall sound signatures are roughly the same though, so I guess it's a "pick your poison" kind of scenario. XD


----------



## zeppu08

Hi mice! Do you think the C5D will be also superb when tag with the ipod 7th gen classic,ipod touch and in an iphone 5s? Headphones will be m100 and earphones use is se215..


----------



## headwhacker

^ I think the way you put it, if you want your source to be transparent go for O2/ODAC. Else, go for C5D. 

I think it's not a problem on O2/Odac doesn't go along with Alpha Dogs. It just simply shows how apha dogs interpret the singnal from the source. It's good that C5D creates a good combination with Alpha Dogs. But it also tells the C5D is not transparent and somewhat colored and negates the peaks in Alpha Dogs? Maybe, using a different headphone will likely hightlight this.

My experience on C5D is mixed. Though I like the bass boost, the smooth treble as you descibe it resolves less details in the highs and compared to O2 has less bass impact, attributes I appreciate especially listening to rock/metal. 

My C5D is seeing more time in storage lately than my O2 and Leckertons.


----------



## metaldood

So you don't recommend C5D for rock and metal?


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

Quote:


miceblue said:


> Is there a good way to [approximately] volume-match DACs?



  
 The output of a DAC is just a low level signal, there is no need to volume match.
  
 Quote:


miceblue said:


> It's hard for me to do a fair ODAC/O2 vs C5D comparison since I have to switch the USB cable, wait for the device to be recognised, and play music. I'm just playing a 1 kHz sine wave right now and trying to volume-match that after listening to it for a good minute to get it burned into my head.


 
  
 Can't you just plug both devices into your comp and use foobar to switch between devices?


----------



## headwhacker

metaldood said:


> So you don't recommend C5D for rock and metal?




Not necessarily, some people like the bass volume/amount which is provided by C5D's bass boost. It's a personal preference. I just love to hear details true to the source for all songs not just rock/metal and love the powerful slam/impact O2 produce on rocks songs over C5D.


----------



## MistahBungle

Loving the C5 with the AK100 MkII/1964Ears V3's, really choice combo. The amp is a fantastic piece of kit for the price (AUD$229), nicely pocketable w/the AK100, really allows your source/IEM's to shine. Good job JDS Labs


----------



## teohouse88

Finally, after had trying no.3 Lighting to Usb CCK cable, my iPhone 5 works very fine with C5D so I think it was a fault of the cable.
 I love this Dac/Amp with EDM music...great bass boost and more detailing mids/treble.
 Thanks To Jds Labs and almost to John Seaber for the help in resolving this matter.


----------



## Varoudis

I just found out that after the 4.3 official update my note2 does not work with the c5d....

Any ideas?!?


----------



## dbdynsty25

varoudis said:


> I just found out that after the 4.3 official update my note2 does not work with the c5d....
> 
> Any ideas?!?


 
  
 Welcome to Samsung's world.  Time to custom ROM it.


----------



## Varoudis

It was Ok before the update... so this is normal eh?


----------



## dbdynsty25

varoudis said:


> It was Ok before the update... so this is normal eh?


 
  
 Yes.  Samsung updated their phones with software that rejects non-samsung peripherals.  Supposedly there is a fix coming because of the backlash on the internet.  So if you sit tight, eventually it'll probably work again.


----------



## Varoudis

Any updated link about rooting and flashing the note2 ?!


----------



## ostewart

I have rooted and flashed AOKP with Devil Kernel, still doesn't work with the JDS Labs C5D (galaxy S3 user here) even tried stock kernel, did nothing...


----------



## Varoudis

The official 4.1.3 that the note2 had before it was perfect


----------



## metaldood

ostewart said:


> I have rooted and flashed AOKP with Devil Kernel, still doesn't work with the JDS Labs C5D (galaxy S3 user here) even tried stock kernel, did nothing...


 
 Kitkat?


----------



## ostewart

JB at the mo, waiting for a stable release of kitkat


----------



## gikigill

Kitkat works fine on my Note 3 with the C5D.


----------



## Davinator

I have the C5D coming in the mail.  I can't wait to try it out!  I plan on powering my Mad Dog headphones with this, and a pair of yet to be purchased IEM's.


----------



## Varoudis

gikigill said:


> Kitkat works fine on my Note 3 with the C5D.


 
 any nice root and flash guide that is for the new 'security' thing? Knox?


----------



## gikigill

Flash the new bootloader, flash the CWM recovery for Kitkat, flash any rom you want.


----------



## jseaber

gikigill said:


> Flash the new bootloader, flash the CWM recovery for Kitkat, flash any rom you want.


 
  
 Here's one important discovery I made while flashing different Android ROMs:
  


> _*Tip:* _Even with the proper cable and support, Android sometimes needs a reboot. Make sure to turn your DAC on and connect it to your phone/tablet, then reboot Android. This will give Android a chance to initialize the DAC.


 
  
 Hope that helps someone. More info and pictures were posted to our blog last week.


----------



## ostewart

Will try to see if i reboot it with the C5D attached, if it will work.


----------



## Davinator

ostewart said:


> Will try to see if i reboot it with the C5D attached, if it will work.


 
  
 Have you tried CM11?  It's been a while since I've used AOKP, and frankly these days I much prefer CM over AOKP.  I hardly use any of the extra features in AOKP, but CM I use almost everything.


----------



## ostewart

I like AOKP because of the ease of customization of home screens and such. I am using Devil kernel overclocked only to 1.5gHz


----------



## dbdynsty25

I had a very difficult time (about 2 weeks of reading) deciding between the C5D and the UHA-4...and ultimately, the bass boost switch won out for me.  I simply need to be able to add a bit more if I want (depending on the headphones I'm using).  So I guess we'll see if I made the right decision.  Oh, and it's 30 bucks cheaper.


----------



## headwhacker

dbdynsty25 said:


> I had a very difficult time (about 2 weeks of reading) deciding between the C5D and the UHA-4...and ultimately, the bass boost switch won out for me.  I simply need to be able to add a bit more if I want (depending on the headphones I'm using).  So I guess we'll see if I made the right decision.  Oh, and it's 30 bucks cheaper.




How could C5D be cheaper? Last time I check it's around 250 bucks and UHA-4 is 199 unless you go for OPA627 which bumps it to 249.

Yes the bass boost function of C5D is great which make it great for listening to music with hard hitting beats. The hardware boost sounds more natural to me than the EQ boost. UHA-4 (with OPA627) though is a bit more neutral and resolving on treble details. Maybe lacking in bass compared to C5D but a better all-rounder IMO.


----------



## dbdynsty25

headwhacker said:


> How could C5D be cheaper? Last time I check it's around 250 bucks and UHA-4 is 199 unless you go for OPA627 which bumps it to 249.
> 
> Yes the bass boost function of C5D is great which make it great for listening to music with hard hitting beats. The hardware boost sounds more natural to me than the EQ boost. UHA-4 (with OPA627) though is a bit more neutral and resolving on treble details. Maybe lacking in bass compared to C5D but a better all-rounder IMO.


 
  
 Woops...mean UHA-6S MKII.  Apologies.


----------



## headwhacker

dbdynsty25 said:


> Woops...mean UHA-6S MKII.  Apologies.




Ah that makes sense now. C5D and 6SMKII are not direct competitors imo. Even at 30 bucks more expensive, the leckerton is a steal.


----------



## dbdynsty25

headwhacker said:


> Ah that makes sense now. C5D and 6SMKII are not direct competitors imo. Even at 30 bucks more expensive, the leckerton is a steal.


 
  
 Well...I ordered both.  How about that?  LOL.    Should know next week sometime which is better.


----------



## headwhacker

dbdynsty25 said:


> Well...I ordered both.  How about that?  LOL.    Should know next week sometime which is better.




Haha just for the record it was not my intention to push you in doing so. I have the C5D, UHA-4 and the UHA-6SMKII for my portable use. The latter seeing the most action than the other 2.


----------



## Mmet

Now C5 with 2 bass boost settings ( mid - high ) ....with output impedance less than 1ohm ....anybody tried that ?


----------



## MistahBungle

Yep. Bought one on Wednesday 

Edit to add - I also listened to a demo of the previous build; no audible difference on the impedance side to my ears (nor the person who sold it to me/their colleagues), and personally speaking, I prefer the 'variable' bass boost rather than just on/off. I'm not really a 'basshead' & find high bass boost (or simply 'on' with the previous build) too much for my tastes (don't really listen to music that would suit it). However, the 'mid' bass boost setting is quite nice with some music & has a rather pleasing thud to it without being overkill (to me at least) 



mmet said:


> Now C5 with 2 bass boost settings ( mid - high ) ....with output impedance less than 1ohm ....anybody tried that ?


----------



## Mmet

mistahbungle said:


> Yep. Bought one on Wednesday
> 
> Edit to add - I also listened to a demo of the previous build; no audible difference on the impedance side to my ears (nor the person who sold it to me/their colleagues), and personally speaking, I prefer the 'variable' bass boost rather than just on/off. I'm not really a 'basshead' & find high bass boost (or simply 'on' with the previous build) too much for my tastes (don't really listen to music that would suit it). However, the 'mid' bass boost setting is quite nice with some music & has a rather pleasing thud to it without being overkill (to me at least)


 
 thanks a lot for your reply .... as i was using fiio e11 and i find its bass boost make a very shallow difference in bass boosting so i want one more powerful


----------



## MistahBungle

No worries. I guess it depends on how much bass you're after; no doubt even the high bass boost on this wouldn't be enough for some people  (I would have thought it should be for most though).



mmet said:


> thanks a lot for your reply .... as i was using fiio e11 and i find its bass boost make a very shallow difference in bass boosting so i want one more powerful


----------



## dbdynsty25

Got my C5D today and wow. It's an impressive device. Definitely happy to have the bass boost but with the m100s it's not necessary at all. Anything outside of normal is just too much. Moves way too much air and you get too much vibration in the headphone. Definitely not the C5Ds fault. With the Focal Spirit Pro I can run it on mid level and it's fantastic. Full boost on even a bass light monitoring headphone like that is even too much. I suppose that setting will be reserved for movies or gaming.


----------



## miceblue

dbdynsty25 said:


> Got my C5D today and wow. It's an impressive device. Definitely happy to have the bass boost but with the m100s it's not necessary at all. Anything outside of normal is just too much. Moves way too much air and you get too much vibration in the headphone. Definitely not the C5Ds fault. With the Focal Spirit Pro I can run it on mid level and it's fantastic. Full boost on even a bass light monitoring headphone like that is even too much. I suppose that setting will be reserved for movies or gaming.



Hahaha. I only use the C5D's bass boost when in a noisy public bus with the M-100. Otherwise, yup, prepare your skull. XD


----------



## luisdent

miceblue said:


> dbdynsty25 said:
> 
> 
> > Got my C5D today and wow. It's an impressive device. Definitely happy to have the bass boost but with the m100s it's not necessary at all. Anything outside of normal is just too much. Moves way too much air and you get too much vibration in the headphone. Definitely not the C5Ds fault. With the Focal Spirit Pro I can run it on mid level and it's fantastic. Full boost on even a bass light monitoring headphone like that is even too much. I suppose that setting will be reserved for movies or gaming.
> ...


 
  
 This thing will even give the er4s bass!


----------



## Varoudis

luisdent said:


> This thing will even give the er4s bass!


 
 yes its epic! I use it with W4R


----------



## Mmet

is there ( or i can order ?) the new C5 with black color & silver front & rear plates?


----------



## jseaber

mmet said:


> is there ( or i can order ?) the new C5 with black color & silver front & rear plates?


 
  
 Yes, for non-standard offerings, you may describe your special requests in the "Order Notes" field during checkout.


----------



## Moody

Question. I'm looking for a amp/dac to go with my iPod Classic 7G and Shure SE846 IEMs. Has the C5D advantages above the C5 in this case?
  
 And how do I connect both for the best audio quality?
  
 Thanks a lot! 
  
 BTW: I can't imagine how bass boost must be like on the Shure SE846


----------



## miceblue

moody said:


> Question. I'm looking for a amp/dac to go with my iPod Classic 7G and Shure SE846 IEMs. Has the C5D advantages above the C5 in this case?
> 
> And how do I connect both for the best audio quality?
> 
> ...



The C5D has 2 bass boost switch settings (half and max), whereas the C5 only has 1 (max).
Additionally, if you need it, the C5D is also an external soundcard. If you don't need that, then the C5 would be a better option for you.

iPod Classic -> line out dock cable -> C5/C5D -> SE846


----------



## jseaber

miceblue said:


> The C5D has 2 bass boost switch settings (half and max), whereas the C5 only has 1 (max).
> Additionally, if you need it, the C5D is also an external soundcard. If you don't need that, then the C5 would be a better option for you.
> 
> iPod Classic -> line out dock cable -> C5/C5D -> SE846


 
  
 C5 and C5D each have Off / Medium / High bass boost. 
  
 C5 has the exact same bass boost toggle as C5D, effective December 17, 2013. Please see the C5 product page for more information.


----------



## Mmet

jseaber said:


> Yes, for non-standard offerings, you may describe your special requests in the "Order Notes" field during checkout.


 
 THANKS A LOT


----------



## miceblue

jseaber said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > The C5D has 2 bass boost switch settings (half and max), whereas the C5 only has 1 (max).
> ...



Wah, I didn't know that. That's really nice!


----------



## goodvibes

headwhacker said:


> As good as the DAC in C5D is, I wish C5 has the low output impedance of C5D. I only need an clean. neutral and low noise, low distortion amp that matches physically with my DX50 using low impedance CIEMS because I already have a few DACs.
> 
> The 2.2 ohm output impedance of C5 may not have enough headroom for <16 Ohm multi -BA iems.


 
 Should be no problem. Any deviation will be <1db


----------



## AzrinRain

Hello everyone, been lurking around for a very long time now, and thanks to your recommendations, i decided to jump the gun and get a C5D!
 A great portable amp + DAC for those who love the O2 sound sig.


----------



## metaldood

azrinrain said:


> Hello everyone, been lurking around for a very long time now, and thanks to your recommendations, i decided to jump the gun and get a C5D!
> A great portable amp + DAC for those who love the O2 sound sig.


 
 What is your setup?


----------



## dbdynsty25

So...what's the recommended way to listen to the C5D...well what's the "proper" way I should say.  Low gain, higher volume or high gain, low volume?  From an electronic standpoint, there has to be a preferred way to run it.  Currently, I'm running the M100s on it coming out of an iPad Air or iPod Touch 5th Gen via the USB Camera Connection Kit.


----------



## AzrinRain

metaldood said:


> What is your setup?


 
@metaldood 
*My portable setup:*
 iPod Video (5G) > LOD > C5D (amp) > SE 530.
 Also, iPhone 4S > CCK > USB C5D > SE 530.
*At home and work:*
 MacBook Pro > USB C5D > O2 amp > SE 530 or Denon D-2000.
  
@dbdynsty25 I use high gain, low volume, bass boost off.


----------



## miceblue

dbdynsty25 said:


> So...what's the recommended way to listen to the C5D...well what's the "proper" way I should say.  Low gain, higher volume or high gain, low volume?  From an electronic standpoint, there has to be a preferred way to run it.  Currently, I'm running the M100s on it coming out of an iPad Air or iPod Touch 5th Gen via the USB Camera Connection Kit.



I'd use maximum, or near maximum, volume level on the iDevice to get a bit-perfect signal from the device, have the C5D running on battery mode unless you want the iDevice to charge the C5D's battery, and either gain setting and volume level on the C5D depending on the headphone. For the M-100, I prefer low-gain because high-gain is too loud for me.


----------



## dbdynsty25

miceblue said:


> I'd use maximum, or near maximum, volume level on the iDevice to get a bit-perfect signal from the device, have the C5D running on battery mode unless you want the iDevice to charge the C5D's battery, and either gain setting and volume level on the C5D depending on the headphone. For the M-100, I prefer low-gain because high-gain is too loud for me.


 
  
 Yeah, both the Air and the iTouch need it to be in Battery mode or they won't work.  And I'm running higher volume on low gain at this point, but was just wondering if there was some advantage to running high gain @ a lower volume.  I can't tell a difference sonically...so lower is probably better.  
  
 Thanks guys.  This C5D is a damn impressive device.  I researched and researched trying to figure out what amp I was ganna get (as I'm not a huge fan of the e07k I've got currently) and I just love the sound.  It seems to bring the mids forward a bit more than the e07k...which is one of the m100s few flaws (slightly recessed mids).


----------



## AzrinRain

dbdynsty25 said:


> This C5D is a damn impressive device.  I researched and researched trying to figure out what amp I was ganna get (as I'm not a huge fan of the e07k I've got currently) and I just love the sound.  It seems to bring the mids forward a bit more than the e07k...which is one of the m100s few flaws (slightly recessed mids).


 
  
 When i heard people mention that the C5D is like a baby O2, I was quite thrilled! To be honest, carrying the O2 around (it's big!) was not really working for me.
 The C5D is something i'm able to strap to my iPod, and still be able to pocket it.


----------



## Zenthelld

dbdynsty25 said:


> Yeah, both the Air and the iTouch need it to be in Battery mode or they won't work.  And I'm running higher volume on low gain at this point, but was just wondering if there was some advantage to running high gain @ a lower volume.  I can't tell a difference sonically...so lower is probably better.



The high gain increases the impact the bass boost gives. So if you find that there isn't enough bass with Max bass boost on low gain, switch to high gain and turn the volume down. If you're fine with the bass on low gain then no other difference will be heard to my knowledge.


----------



## OlivB

Hi,
 just got a C5D (brilliant !), and I'm looking for a short angled LOD for a numeric connection to an Ipod, so 30 pin to mini USB.
 I don't want a non-angled like this one > http://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=53 as it's a pain for an every day use (in the pocket).
  
 Any suggestion ? (I'm in France)
  
 We should suggest to JDS Labs to make custom LOD's to go with their products, at a price around 30 to 50 $, not more.
 When you ask them for the C5D, they answer Apple CCK ;-( , witch is useless to have a compact rig.
  
 Thanks (and excuse my poor american/english !).


----------



## dbdynsty25

zenthelld said:


> The high gain increases the impact the bass boost gives. So if you find that there isn't enough bass with Max bass boost on low gain, switch to high gain and turn the volume down. If you're fine with the bass on low gain then no other difference will be heard to my knowledge.




With the m100s there's almost too much bass on low gain and low bass setting! Haha. Thanks for the suggestion. I'm on low gain and higher volume at this point.


----------



## jellofund

I currently have an O2 & ODAC and looking for something similar to use on the go. The C5D sounds like it'd be perfect.
  
 The only concern is compatability with my Android phone (Moto G on Kitkat), and the nearest dealer I can buy from is JDS' distributor in Spain, and I'm a bit wary about spending approx. £200 ($300 USD) on a combo that might not work.
  
 I note from the product page on JDS' website that the C5D supports Android devices that use OTG+UAC1. My phone works fine with my O2/ODAC (believe the ODAC is also UAC1) using an OTG cable so would it be a fairly safe assumption that the C5D  _should _work too?
  
 Also does anyone know of any places in the EU (UK ideally) that sell short usb micro to mini OTG cables? Preferably right angled for pocket-ability.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Varoudis

olivb said:


> Hi,
> just got a C5D (brilliant !), and I'm looking for a short angled LOD for a numeric connection to an Ipod, so 30 pin to mini USB.
> I don't want a non-angled like this one > http://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=53 as it's a pain for an every day use (in the pocket).
> 
> ...


 
 Numeric (data) with iPod? Which iPod??


----------



## jseaber

jellofund said:


> I currently have an O2 & ODAC and looking for something similar to use on the go. The C5D sounds like it'd be perfect.
> 
> The only concern is compatability with my Android phone (Moto G on Kitkat), and the nearest dealer I can buy from is JDS' distributor in Spain, and I'm a bit wary about spending approx. £200 ($300 USD) on a combo that might not work.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, since your phone works with ODAC, it's guaranteed to work with all other standard DACs. C5D will work even better since it consumes no power from your phone.


----------



## jellofund

jseaber said:


> Yes, since your phone works with ODAC, it's guaranteed to work with all other standard DACs. C5D will work even better since it consumes no power from your phone.


 
 That's wonderful! - thank you very much for confirming


----------



## jseaber

olivb said:


> Hi,
> just got a C5D (brilliant !), and I'm looking for a short angled LOD for a numeric connection to an Ipod, so 30 pin to mini USB.
> I don't want a non-angled like this one > http://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=53 as it's a pain for an every day use (in the pocket).
> 
> ...


 
  
 After posting this article, Peter from Double Helix Cables researched custom Apple USB cables for us.
  
 According to Apple, the CCK circuitry in not available to any third-party developers. So, even Apple MFi developers and manufacturers are unable to produce the cable you desire.


----------



## OlivB

Ipod touch, sorry was meaning digital.
 Want to use the mini USB out of the C5D to benefit the Dac and amp. The 3,5 jack is just amp not Dac.


----------



## OlivB

varoudis said:


> Numeric (data) with iPod? Which iPod??


 
 Ipod touch, sorry was meaning digital.
 Want to use the mini USB out of the C5D to benefit the Dac and amp. The 3,5 jack out is just amp not Dac.


----------



## jseaber

olivb said:


> Ipod touch, sorry was meaning digital.
> Want to use the mini USB out of the C5D to benefit the Dac and amp. The 3,5 jack out is just amp not Dac.


 
  
 iPod Touch is compatible. Digital cables with pictures are explained here:
 http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=838


----------



## OlivB

jseaber said:


> After posting this article, Peter from Double Helix Cables researched custom Apple USB cables for us.
> 
> According to Apple, the CCK circuitry in not available to any third-party developers. So, even Apple MFi developers and manufacturers are unable to produce the cable you desire.


 
 Thanks @jseaber for the link, hate Apple and it's over protection policy. Hope you will have the agrement, because it's just a matter of bits of cables and connection....
 I will continue to look for custom and "illegal" one, not too expensive and pocket compatible.
 CCK is definitively out for nomad use.


----------



## Varoudis

you can buy a CCK and DIY one yourself maybe


----------



## OlivB

jseaber said:


> iPod Touch is compatible. Digital cables with pictures are explained here:
> http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=838


 
 Yeah, seen it, thanks,
 but all those cables are not compatible with "normal" nomad use "in the pocket" !
 What's the point to have such a nice nomad amp/dac if it's to use it at home...


----------



## OlivB

varoudis said:


> you can buy a CCK and DIY one yourself maybe


 
 Yep, good idea,  but I'vnt the propers tools and skills.


----------



## jseaber

olivb said:


> Yep, good idea,  but I'vnt the propers tools and skills.


 
  
 Double Helix Cables may be willing. He said it would be a difficult modification.


----------



## Varoudis

jseaber said:


> Double Helix Cables may be willing. He said it would be a difficult modification.


 
 Probably depends on which side is the spacial auth chip but I think its on the Lighting side. So you have to find the cables and solder them on a male MiniUSB-B.


----------



## Zenthelld

dbdynsty25 said:


> With the m100s there's almost too much bass on low gain and low bass setting! Haha. Thanks for the suggestion. I'm on low gain and higher volume at this point.



Yeah I've heard the M100s are quite bassy. Whereas for my PSB M4U 1s high gain with max boost is just about enough (although still not quite enough in the sub-bass region without digital EQ).


----------



## AzrinRain

olivb said:


> Hi,
> just got a C5D (brilliant !), and I'm looking for a short angled LOD for a numeric connection to an Ipod, so 30 pin to mini USB.
> I don't want a non-angled like this one > [COLOR=FF4400]http://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=53[/COLOR] as it's a pain for an every day use (in the pocket).
> 
> ...







jseaber said:


> After posting this article, Peter from Double Helix Cables researched custom Apple USB cables for us.
> 
> According to Apple, the CCK circuitry in not available to any third-party developers. So, even Apple MFi developers and manufacturers are unable to produce the cable you desire.




@OlivB, if you truly need a nomad (sans CCK) setup, you'd have to wait for when John gets MFi certified from Apple, and in which case you might need to send the C5D back to him to update the logic board with new hardware, and then you'd be able to use cables like the one you linked to us from Forza Audio.


----------



## jseaber

azrinrain said:


> @OlivB, if you truly need a nomad (sans CCK) setup, you'd have to wait for when John gets MFi certified from Apple, and in which case you might need to send the C5D back to him to update the logic board with new hardware, and then you'd be able to use cables like the one you linked to us from Forza Audio.


 
  
 A logic update is not possible. An Apple MFi device requires additional hardware authentication, meaning such a change would demand a new design.


----------



## AzrinRain

jseaber said:


> A logic update is not possible. An Apple MFi device requires additional hardware authentication, meaning such a change would demand a new design.




Yikes, that's even worse than i thought.
John, if in any case you'd get MFi approved, would we be able to replace our existing units with the new MFi design?


----------



## jseaber

azrinrain said:


> Yikes, that's even worse than i thought.
> John, if in any case you'd get MFi approved, would we be able to replace our existing units with the new MFi design?


 
  
 Sorry, too much speculation to give any useful info. If/when JDS Labs has MFi authorization, we'll shift our development plans accordingly. For now, we must assume that path is not open.


----------



## OlivB

azrinrain said:


> @OlivB, if you truly need a nomad (sans CCK) setup, you'd have to wait for when John gets MFi certified from Apple, and in which case you might need to send the C5D back to him to update the logic board with new hardware, and then you'd be able to use cables like the one you linked to us from Forza Audio.


 
 @AzrinRain Yep, I truly whant a nomal setup. I come to C5D because of it's quality AND for a nomad use !


----------



## OlivB

azrinrain said:


> Yikes, that's even worse than i thought.
> John, if in any case you'd get MFi approved, would we be able to replace our existing units with the new MFi design?


 
 to @AzrinRain and @jseaber 
 What a debate ! I'm not sure to understand every thing... Isn't it just a matter of connections and bits of cables ? To replace a CCK whitch is just made of plastic, connectors and wires, why can't it be just appropriate connectors and bits of cable ?
 If there is an digital sound signal through the 30 pins connection of my Ipod, it should be able to be "read" by the C5D through the mini-Usb A connector, like it does when I connect the CD5 to my Macbook ?
 No ?


----------



## AzrinRain

@OlivB, not really. Google up 'Camera Connection Kit Teardown' and you'll see that there's an entire PCB layout there with chips which names and functions escape me (which is why the CCK is essential in the first place). As a side note, the Lightning connector has a built-in authenticator chip which requires approval and parts from Apple to be able to perform a 'handshake' between the cable and iOS device.
And if John does get MFi certification, slapping these chips in the existing PCB design is not possible. An entirely new layout has to be made from the ground up, and more research is needed on which components go best in the signal path, while still retaining the existing SQ.

And nope, the iPod doesn't work the same as a Mac.


----------



## OlivB

azrinrain said:


> @OlivB, not really. Google up 'Camera Connection Kit Teardown' and you'll see that there's an entire PCB layout there with chips which names and functions escape me (which is why the CCK is essential in the first place). As a side note, the Lightning connector has a built-in authenticator chip which requires approval and parts from Apple to be able to perform a 'handshake' between the cable and iOS device.
> And if John does get MFi certification, slapping these chips in the existing PCB design is not possible. An entirely new layout has to be made from the ground up, and more research is needed on which components go best in the signal path, while still retaining the existing SQ.
> 
> And nope, the iPod doesn't work the same as a Mac.


 
 How ! Thanks very much !
 That means that using this > http://www.aloaudio.com/cables/portable/digital/sxc-24-30-pin-to-usb-mini-a
 or this > http://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=53
 won't work propely with the C5D ?


----------



## Varoudis

olivb said:


> How ! Thanks very much !
> That means that using this > http://www.aloaudio.com/cables/portable/digital/sxc-24-30-pin-to-usb-mini-a
> or this > http://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=53
> won't work propely with the C5D ?




These do NOT work


----------



## OlivB

varoudis said:


> These do NOT work


 
 Thanks 
 You make me saving money.
 So what are they for ? Is it a scam, even if they says "For connecting your Apple device (with digital out and 30-pin dock connector) to portable DACs like Cypher Labs Algorythm Solo (CLAS) or Fostex HP-P1"... ?


----------



## Varoudis

olivb said:


> Thanks
> You make me saving money.
> So what are they for ? Is it a scam, even if they says "For connecting your Apple device (with digital out and 30-pin dock connector) to portable DACs like Cypher Labs Algorythm Solo (CLAS) or Fostex HP-P1"... ?




Completely different think! C5d is not a MFi. Certified apple dac etc...


----------



## OlivB

varoudis said:


> Completely different think! C5d is not a MFi. Certified apple dac etc...


 
 Ok, starting to understand. Means that Cypher Labs, Algorythm, Fostex are MFI ?
 (i should have a look on their websites)


----------



## Vemon

I just received my C5D, and I am charging it right now. When the amp is fully charged, the blue light will turn off? If I let it charge over night, the amp will be overcharged or it will automatically stop? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Nice engraving.


----------



## AzrinRain

olivb said:


> Thanks
> You make me saving money.
> So what are they for ? Is it a scam, even if they says "For connecting your Apple device (with digital out and 30-pin dock connector) to portable DACs like Cypher Labs Algorythm Solo (CLAS) or Fostex HP-P1"... ?


 
   





olivb said:


> Ok, starting to understand. Means that Cypher Labs, Algorythm, Fostex are MFI ?
> (i should have a look on their websites)


 
  
@OlivB Nope, it's not a scam. Earlier on i mentioned about MFi devices and how they have additional chips and approval from Apple. The CLAS and the HP-P1 are examples of said MFi devices, being able to forgo the CCK + supplied USB cable in favor of something like this:
  
  

  
  
@Vemon I haven't charged the C5D that much (a testament to it's good battery life), but when i do, it stops charging when it's full. And when it does, the blue light will simply turn off.


----------



## metaldood

vemon said:


> I just received my C5D, and I am charging it right now. When the amp is fully charged, the blue light will turn off? If I let it charge over night, the amp will be overcharged or it will automatically stop?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice engraving. Did you just send a jpeg/png?


----------



## zeppu08

Anyone whos using iMod(5G rockboxed) and paired to the C5D? How does it sounds? Need advice..


----------



## MistahBungle

vemon said:


> I just received my C5D, and I am charging it right now. When the amp is fully charged, the blue light will turn off? If I let it charge over night, the amp will be overcharged or it will automatically stop?   Nice engraving.




Beautiful engraving


----------



## miceblue

vemon said:


> I just received my C5D, and I am charging it right now. When the amp is fully charged, the blue light will turn off? If I let it charge over night, the amp will be overcharged or it will automatically stop?   Nice engraving.



The beauty of that engraving blinded people from answering your question. XD

Yup, the blue light will turn off when it's done charging.


----------



## AzrinRain

miceblue said:


> The beauty of that engraving blinded people from answering your question. XD
> 
> Yup, the blue light will turn off when it's done charging.


 
  
 Haha, the beauty of that engraving also blinded people from looking at my answer XD


----------



## miceblue

azrinrain said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > The beauty of that engraving blinded people from answering your question. XD
> ...



Hahaha, you're right! I definitely didn't see that.


----------



## OlivB

to @AzrinRain @jseaber @Varoudis
 Thanks for all the answers and explanations, i feel less stupid then.
 So I'll have to get a CCK and find a solution to make it strong for an every day pocket nomad use.
 Thanks again.


----------



## AzrinRain

olivb said:


> to @AzrinRain @jseaber @Varoudis
> Thanks for all the answers and explanations, i feel less stupid then.
> So I'll have to get a CCK and find a solution to make it strong for an every day pocket nomad use.
> Thanks again.


 
  
@OlivB oh, don't worry about the strength. You could literally do this:
  

  
 I think you could just get a shorter USB to USB mini A, and be done with. Probably best to get one with a ferrite bead.
  
  
*EDIT: Hey, wait a minute. All this while i failed to ask you a very important question. By your description, i guess you're using a 4th Gen iPod Touch, yes?*


----------



## OlivB

azrinrain said:


> @OlivB oh, don't worry about the strength. You could literally do this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 No I'm using a 2th gen Ipod Touch or an Iphone 4. Why ?


----------



## AzrinRain

olivb said:


> No I'm using a 2th gen Ipod Touch or an Iphone 4. Why ?




Your iPod Touch will not go up to iOS 7, hence the DAC option via CCK will not be available for it. But your iPhone 4 will be fully capable.


----------



## OlivB

Sorry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, it's a 32 gb 3th gen, already updated with IOS7.


----------



## AzrinRain

olivb said:


> Sorry  , it's a 32 gb 3th gen, already updated with IOS7.



Oh, cool! Have fun then!


----------



## Jetblack08

Has anyone tried the C5/Colorfly C3 combo? If not, by all means give it a listen. Sounded better than the IHIFI 960 I had sent to me accidentally. If it sounds better than the Hisoundaudio V 3rd Anniversary I am waiting for, I may send it back.


----------



## Vemon

I got this pic from my itouch 5g wallpaper (which is almost same size to the amp) photo galary, and then I converted the colored picture to black and white. You can always send your engrave picture to JDS lab to ask them if its ok.


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

was the *C5* revised by any chance? The specs on the site say .62 ohm output impedance, I thought it was 2 ohms as my local distributor has it in their spec description.


----------



## ostewart

Yep, it also now comes with the 2 way bass boost like the C5D


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

ostewart said:


> Yep, it also now comes with the 2 way bass boost like the C5D


 
 do you know when (like when the revised versions started shipping) this occurred by any chance? I have to ask my local distributor about this since they haven't updated their description for the C5.


----------



## ostewart

Probably when the C5D came out.


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

alrighty thanks


----------



## dbdynsty25

ostewart said:


> Probably when the C5D came out.


 
  
 I believe it was in December 2013.
  
 Edit:
  
 Yup...That's what I thought:
  


jseaber said:


> C5 and C5D each have Off / Medium / High bass boost.
> 
> C5 has the exact same bass boost toggle as C5D, effective December 17, 2013. Please see the C5 product page for more information.


----------



## dbdynsty25

I ordered a UHA-6S MKII and finally received it the other day.  After extensively listening to both, I'm convinced the C5D is a better all around amp.  The one concern I have is the hoops I have to jump through to get the iPod Touch to recognize the device via the CCK.
  
 I'm wondering if there's something wrong with my C5D.  Here's what I have to do.
  
 C5D starts OFF
 Plug in CCK via USB to C5D
 Turn on C5D
 Plug into iPod Touch
  
 If I do it that way, it works.  When I plug in the Leckerton, at ANY TIME, on or off, whatever, it always works.  Is this normal for the C5D?  I mean it doesn't matter that much, but if it's not supposed to work like that, I probably need a replacement or something.


----------



## miceblue

I usually have:

 iDevice turned on (say in the Music app for example)
 Plug in CCK into iDevice
 Plug in C5D via USB (in battery mode)
 Turn on C5D (Music app's digital volume automatically goes to maximum since it remembers the setting from the last listening session)
 Plug in headphones
 Listen to audio


----------



## jseaber

dbdynsty25 said:


> I ordered a UHA-6S MKII and finally received it the other day.  After extensively listening to both, I'm convinced the C5D is a better all around amp.  The one concern I have is the hoops I have to jump through to get the iPod Touch to recognize the device via the CCK.
> 
> I'm wondering if there's something wrong with my C5D.  Here's what I have to do.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ugh, that looks like the original firmware behavior. We've had to manually load final code onto the current production batch. Four production staffers handle this. The next batch of chips was machine programmed last week. We requested version stickers on each chip, so there will be no uncertainty moving forward.
  
 Please PM or email your order number and we can swap it for you.


----------



## Vemon

Today I just bought CCK for my itouch 5g. I have to switch to CHG mode to turn on C5D to use the dac (after I have to manually switch back to bat mode). When I turn on in BAT mode, the music will play out of my itouch speaker. Its the same story when I plug it on my Macbook. But you said you are in BAT mode. Its there something wrong my C5D, I just received this friday?


----------



## jseaber

vemon said:


> Today I just bought CCK for my itouch 5g. I have to switch to CHG mode to turn on C5D to use the dac (after I have to manually switch back to bat mode). When I turn on in BAT mode, the music will play out of my itouch speaker. Its the same story when I plug it on my Macbook. But you said you are in BAT mode. Its there something wrong my C5D, I just received this friday?


 
  
 Not a hardware defect, just different firmware. Please see my previous post #2201.


----------



## Vemon

So in general, if you want to use the dac, you have to switch to CHG mode first, then turn On your C5D. After you can switch back to BAT mode if you use it with any portable devices. Am I correct? 
 One more question for the bass boost switch which is off med and high? For example, if I place the amp with the JDS Label up, the level up is off, mid level is high, and low level is mid?


----------



## jseaber

vemon said:


> So in general, if you want to use the dac, you have to switch to CHG mode first, then turn On your C5D. After you can switch back to BAT mode if you use it with any portable devices. Am I correct?
> One more question for the bass boost switch which is off med and high? For example, if I place the amp with the JDS Label up, the level up is off, mid level is high, and low level is mid?


 
  
 All correct!
  
 That firmware should not have shipped, by the way. I'll inform our production staff to ensure it doesn't happen again with the remaining C5Ds in this batch. It's a minor inconvenience, so let me know if you'd like to exchange it.
  
*Edit*: For those interested, the behavior Vemon and dbdynsty25 have described is firmware dated December 13th, v1.1.0. The final C5D code was published on December 14th, v1.2.0. The current shipping batch of C5D is machine assembled with v1.1.0 code, and we're manually loading code v1.2.0 at JDS Labs. It seems that someone in production had a mixup while loading code. Fortunately, this is a minor usage tweak. We'll double check inventory on Monday. [Monday update -- All inventory in our facility has the latest firmware. We'll get corrections to Vemon and dbdynsty25 quickly.]


----------



## zenpunk

Any plans to allow users to update firmware of their C5D or does it have to be sent back?


----------



## miceblue

zenpunk said:


> Any plans to allow users to update firmware of their C5D or does it have to be sent back?



Technically users can update the firmware. You need to solder-in some header-pins, or something similar, and have an ISP programmer circuit.

I can't find my soldering iron and silver solder, so I haven't had a chance to get the C5D hooked up to my computer, but I did exactly the same thing for the C5 as explained in my review.
http://www.head-fi.org/products/jds-labs-c5-headphone-amplifier/reviews/9198


----------



## AzrinRain

jseaber said:


> All correct!
> 
> That firmware should not have shipped, by the way. I'll inform our production staff to ensure it doesn't happen again with the remaining C5Ds in this batch. It's a minor inconvenience, so let me know if you'd like to exchange it.
> 
> *Edit*: For those interested, the behavior Vemon and dbdynsty25 have described is firmware dated December 13th, v1.1.0. The final C5D code was published on December 14th, v1.2.0. The current shipping batch of C5D is machine assembled with v1.1.0 code, and we're manually loading code v1.2.0 at JDS Labs. It seems that someone in production had a mixup while loading code. Fortunately, this is a minor usage tweak. We'll double check inventory on Monday.


 
  
 Ah! That explains why my bass boost switch is being funny. Thanks for the clarification, John!


----------



## jseaber

zenpunk said:


> Any plans to allow users to update firmware of their C5D or does it have to be sent back?


 
  
 Yes, this has always been possible _if you happen to have an Arduino programmer_. Code and instructions are published on Github:
 https://github.com/jdslabs/C5D_Firmware
  
 No further firmware updates are planned. Since this update is limited to a handful of users, I'm sure we could ship loaner programmers to anyone interested.
  


miceblue said:


> Technically users can update the firmware. You need to solder-in some header-pins, or something similar, and have an ISP programmer circuit.
> 
> I can't find my soldering iron and silver solder, so I haven't had a chance to get the C5D hooked up to my computer, but I did exactly the same thing for the C5 as explained in my review.
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/jds-labs-c5-headphone-amplifier/reviews/9198


 
  
 It's no longer necessary to solder; we use spring loaded pins instead. The process takes about 10 seconds total.
  


azrinrain said:


> Ah! That explains why my bass boost switch is being funny. Thanks for the clarification, John!


 
  
 What do you mean? Bass boost is entirely mechanical and unrelated to firmware.


----------



## AzrinRain

jseaber said:


> What do you mean? Bass boost is entirely mechanical and unrelated to firmware.




John, based by the way @Vemon's question was answered, i had the impression it was.
Was the bass boost intentionally configured that way (low>high>mid), or was it supposed to be naturally progressive (low>mid>high)?


----------



## jseaber

azrinrain said:


> John, based by the way @Vemon's question was answered, i had the impression it was.
> Was the bass boost intentionally configured that way (low>high>mid), or was it supposed to be naturally progressive (low>mid>high)?


 
  
 Vernon correctly described the bass boost switch. It's wired this way to achieve maximum performance, rather than maximum intuitiveness. Please see here for further confirmation:
 http://www.jdslabs.com/pdf/Instructions_C5D.pdf


----------



## teohouse88

which headphone impedance the C5D can drive up to?? (100,200,300 ohm)
 Is the C5D able to drive a Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro 250 Ohm?


----------



## AladdinSane

Possible to add the additional bass boost increment to an older C5?


----------



## jseaber

teohouse88 said:


> which headphone impedance the C5D can drive up to?? (100,200,300 ohm)
> Is the C5D able to drive a Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro 250 Ohm?


 
  
 There's no exact answer to this question. It's possible to drive any headphone impedance with any amp. Maximum output volume depends on headphone's sensitivity and the output power of the amp at a specific impedance. Example:
  
 DT-880 Pros have sensitivity of 96 db/mW @ 250 ohms, so they need < *40** mW* to exceed 110dB output. C5D can deliver more than 40 mW into 250 ohms, so this is a reasonable match.
  


aladdinsane said:


> Possible to add the additional bass boost increment to an older C5?


  
 Yes, the switch can be upgraded for the cost of parts + shipping. These switches are backordered until next month.


----------



## chengsta

Has anyone here paired this amp (bass boost max) with the new jh roxanne?  I know its a bit early, but I'm hopeful.


----------



## zeppu08

Does anyone here tried this combo..

iPod classic 7th gen + c5d 

How does the SQ of the DAC part change? Stock vs C5D dac..

And how does as a whole goes?

Thank you!


----------



## ostewart

You cannot use the DAC part with an iPod classic. But just the amp section. So you're better if getting just the C5. Using the classic with it sounds great. Very flat and neutral.


----------



## zeppu08

ostewart said:


> You cannot use the DAC part with an iPod classic. But just the amp section. So you're better if getting just the C5. Using the classic with it sounds great. Very flat and neutral.




Ohh. Really I thought the ipod 7th gen is bypassable? Or just the c5d is not compatible for the ipod to bypass it? Sorry im new in using dacs.. ^_^


----------



## Varoudis

zeppu08 said:


> Ohh. Really I thought the ipod 7th gen is bypassable? Or just the c5d is not compatible for the ipod to bypass it? Sorry im new in using dacs.. ^_^




Not compatible, but sounds amazing! As an amp


----------



## zeppu08

varoudis said:


> Not compatible, but sounds amazing! As an amp




Ah. Now i get it! Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## Zorander

HI,

I just noticed this thread in my search for a DAC/Amp combo for my Samsung Note 2. How does it match with the AT CK100Pro? Also, I am using the Neutron MP player; is there any issue between this software and the C5D?

Thanks.


----------



## Varoudis

zorander said:


> HI,
> 
> I just noticed this thread in my search for a DAC/Amp combo for my Samsung Note 2. How does it match with the AT CK100Pro? Also, I am using the Neutron MP player; is there any issue between this software and the C5D?
> 
> Thanks.



Be careful. Will not work if you use the updated 4.3


----------



## Zorander

varoudis said:


> Be careful. Will not work if you use the updated 4.3




How do I tell what version I have?


----------



## Varoudis

zorander said:


> How do I tell what version I have?




Somewhere in the settings. Im not an android expert to remember the steps by heart


----------



## ostewart

Settings > about phone

Flashed AOKP KitKat nightly yesterday on my S3, still no audio out, I give up, I never use my phone for audio anyway.


----------



## dbdynsty25

ostewart said:


> Settings > about phone
> 
> Flashed AOKP KitKat nightly yesterday on my S3, still no audio out, I give up, I never use my phone for audio anyway.


 
  
 Weird.  I've got the new Galaxy Tab Pro 8.4 and the audio out works perfectly with the latest software direct from Samsung (4.4.2).  Wonder what they are doing with the phone versions that's different.


----------



## metaldood

Does C5D pair well with Mad Dogs 3.2?


----------



## fabifri

I have again a defective unit of a C5D.
 Does anybody also experience problems while using it with the iphone? It stops working, and something in the firmware gets deleted. (as jds labs told me)
 It's the second unit, where i have this problem now. It's not working more than two weeks when regularly used with the iphone. (ios 7.0.4)
  
 kind regards
 Fabian


----------



## teohouse88

fabifri said:


> I have again a defective unit of a C5D.
> Does anybody also experience problems while using it with the iphone? It stops working, and something in the firmware gets deleted. (as jds labs told me)
> It's the second unit, where i have this problem now. It's not working more than two weeks when regularly used with the iphone. (ios 7.0.4)
> 
> ...


 
 My issue was the Lightning CCK cable...after that I changed this cable all is fine with iPhone 5 7.0.4 
 Hoping that it's the same for you....


----------



## AzrinRain

chengsta said:


> Has anyone here paired this amp (bass boost max) with the new jh roxanne?  I know its a bit early, but I'm hopeful.


 
 I'm a little curious as to what would you like to achieve with said setup? I'm made to understand that at past 2pm (on the Roxanne's bass dial), it's much more than other JH models (even JH16), thus [potentially] negating the use of the bass boost.
 Nevertheless, i'm saving up for the Roxanne, so it's good to know what the pairing is like with the C5D, regardless of bass boost.
  


metaldood said:


> Does C5D pair well with Mad Dogs 3.2?


 
 I'd also like to know if it will work with the Alpha Dogs as well. Can't seem to find any impedance measurements on the manufacturer website.


----------



## AzrinRain

fabifri said:


> I have again a defective unit of a C5D.
> Does anybody also experience problems while using it with the iphone? It stops working, and something in the firmware gets deleted. (as jds labs told me)
> It's the second unit, where i have this problem now. It's not working more than two weeks when regularly used with the iphone. (ios 7.0.4)
> 
> ...


 
 Give @miceblue's suggestion a try. (link here)
  
  
_Mods, sorry for the back-to-back posting. Wasn't quite sure how to add more quotes to an already published post._


----------



## BB 808

azrinrain said:


> I'm a little curious as to what would you like to achieve with said setup? I'm made to understand that at past 2pm (on the Roxanne's bass dial), it's much more than other JH models (even JH16), thus [potentially] negating the use of the bass boost.
> Nevertheless, i'm saving up for the Roxanne, so it's good to know what the pairing is like with the C5D, regardless of bass boost.
> 
> I'd also like to know if it will work with the Alpha Dogs as well. Can't seem to find any impedance measurements on the manufacturer website.



Specifications
Alpha Dogs (T50RP)
Frequency Range 15 Hz - 35 kHz 
Impedance 50 Ω 
Sensitivity 98 dB
Maximum Input Power 3000 mW


----------



## jseaber

fabifri said:


> I have again a defective unit of a C5D.
> Does anybody also experience problems while using it with the iphone? It stops working, and something in the firmware gets deleted. (as jds labs told me)
> It's the second unit, where i have this problem now. It's not working more than two weeks when regularly used with the iphone. (ios 7.0.4)
> 
> ...


 
  
 Emailed you back earlier; it's possible to reset without sending it back to JDS Labs. Less than 1% of C5D users have accidentally erased the DAC's unlocked firmware. Therefore, we're write protecting the DAC in the next batch to prevent this.


----------



## Zorander

I have Android version 4.1.2 on the Note 2. Will the c5d work with it?


----------



## zeppu08

Have anyone here tried this set up?



Ipod classic 7th gen + CLAS + C5 



Will be pairing it with a m100..

Can you give some inputs how does it sounds and go?

Thanks!


----------



## BB 808

zeppu08 said:


> Have anyone here tried this set up?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I've been using Apple iPod Classic 160G → JDS Labs C5 → V-MODA M-100 and I think this combo sounds great!  If you add the CLAS into the mix, I'm pretty sure it will elevate to awesome.


----------



## zeppu08

bb 808 said:


> I've been using Apple iPod Classic 160G → JDS Labs C5 → V-MODA M-100 and I think this combo sounds great!  If you add the CLAS into the mix, I'm pretty sure it will elevate to awesome.




Hi! Yah im thinking of that adding the CLAS.. But just looking for inputs how the CLAS and C5 will work hand in hand.. 

I know it will not be a balance set up (which is really the usual thing they do with the CLAS) thats why i want to know how will they sound.. 

Hope someone have tried this..


----------



## Varoudis

zorander said:


> I have Android version 4.1.2 on the Note 2. Will the c5d work with it?




I can give you my word but my note2 when i had the uk version 4.1.2 was working perfect.
No promise though


----------



## DangerToast

Hey guys. What cable would I need to enable the cd5 to work as an amp and dac (not just an amp) coming out of my ipod classic?


----------



## dbdynsty25

dangertoast said:


> Hey guys. What cable would I need to enable the cd5 to work as an amp and dac (not just an amp) coming out of my ipod classic?




Don't think it will work as a DAC out of a classic w the 30 pin. Think you can only use the line out (fiio makes a few cables). Then you plug that into the C5D line in.


----------



## DangerToast

dbdynsty25 said:


> Don't think it will work as a DAC out of a classic w the 30 pin. Think you can only use the line out (fiio makes a few cables). Then you plug that into the C5D line in.


 
 Thanks for the response, it's a shame the c5d can't be used as a dac with the ipod classic. I still might grab the c5d as opposed to the c5 because some reviewers like the sound of c5d amp better than the c5. I could also still use the c5d's dac when coming out of my phone or laptop. I guess when it's plugged into the ipod classic I'll still be hearing that internal wolfson dac, but it's not so bad.


----------



## zeppu08

dangertoast said:


> Thanks for the response, it's a shame the c5d can't be used as a dac with the ipod classic. I still might grab the c5d as opposed to the c5 because some reviewers like the sound of c5d amp better than the c5. I could also still use the c5d's dac when coming out of my phone or laptop. I guess when it's plugged into the ipod classic I'll still be hearing that internal wolfson dac, but it's not so bad.




Yah.. Just asked JDS about this too and their response is this..

"Only iOS7 supports standard digital audio output. iPod Classic does not support iOS7. More information can be found in this article: http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=838"

I Hope and suggested them to make a DAC that can bybass the ipod too like the solo does to match the C5 but havent get any response anymore..


----------



## miceblue

The CLAS and similar "Apple certified" DACs are all very expensive, more than twice the price of the C5D. I personally don't foresee JDS Labs going into that area.


----------



## zeppu08

miceblue said:


> The CLAS and similar "Apple certified" DACs are all very expensive, *more than twice the price of the C5D*. I personally don't foresee JDS Labs going into that area.




Yah we all know it but JDS labs make high quality equipnent and still put a fair price on it. Just saying maybe if they try to make one then it will be really good for their customers..

Just thinking the C5D is already amp/dac and the price with that quality, its a must have! Just my opinion though.. ^__^


----------



## ClieOS

miceblue said:


> The CLAS and similar "Apple certified" DACs are all very expensive, more than twice the price of the C5D. I personally don't foresee *JDS Labs going into that area.*


 
  
They tried, with a lot of legal papers to fill and very little headway to make no less. So it has been put aside for more rewarding work.
  
 Now you know why companies that do get the MFi certification want to charge you so much. It is not much of a high demand creating a high price, but Apple's setting of a high bar to cross so there will be a short in supply that will create a high price.


----------



## DangerToast

clieos said:


> They tried, with a lot of legal papers to fill and very little headway to make no less. So it has been put aside for more rewarding work.
> 
> Now you know why companies that do get the MFi certification want to charge you so much. It is not much of a high demand creating a high price, but Apple's setting of a high bar to cross so there will be a short in supply that will create a high price.


 
 Gross. Makes me wanna ditch the ipod classic and get something non-apple just to make a statement.


----------



## headwhacker

dangertoast said:


> Gross. Makes me wanna ditch the ipod classic and get something non-apple just to make a statement.



 


If you can manage to install rockbox to your iPod classic, it will be a rewarding upgrade. Like breathing new life to your iPod. Then you can just use C5D as an amp. You just need the courage, patience and luck to do it. It's aslo free.


----------



## miceblue

clieos said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > The CLAS and similar "Apple certified" DACs are all very expensive, more than twice the price of the C5D. I personally don't foresee *JDS Labs going into that area.*
> ...



Waaaaht? I didn't know that. That's interesting to read though.


----------



## r010159

I have purchased the C5D. It will arrive by Thursday. What I need now is a portable source that works well with the C5D. I prefer to be using the DAC USB input. Would an iPod work with this amp/DAC? How would this work out wrt SQ? Will I need an iPod Touch for the digital signal to the DAC? I do have an iPod Nano that I may use until I can actually afford to purchase something better. This would mean bypassing the DAC part. But I still am willing to consider other options, particularly to make use of the DAC.

Thanks!

Bob Graham

PS: I managed to get my iPad 4 to work with my O2/ODAC combo. But this setup is not practical for me.


----------



## dbdynsty25

r010159 said:


> I have purchased the C5D. It will arrive by Thursday. What I need now is a portable source that works well with the C5D. I prefer to be using the DAC USB input. Would an iPod work with this amp/DAC? How would this work out wrt SQ? Will I need an iPod Touch for the digital signal to the DAC? I do have an iPod Nano that I may use until I can actually afford to purchase something better. This would mean bypassing the DAC part. But I still am willing to consider other options, particularly to make use of the DAC.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Depends on the version of the iPod Touch.  If you've got one with the Lightning connector...you just have to get the USB Camera Connection kit and then you can use it as a USB Dac.  I've got a Touch 5th Gen, an iPad Mini Retina and a iPad Air (for work) and all three work with the CCK and the C5D via USB.


----------



## r010159

dbdynsty25 said:


> Depends on the version of the iPod Touch.  If you've got one with the Lightning connector...you just have to get the USB Camera Connection kit and then you can use it as a USB Dac.  I've got a Touch 5th Gen, an iPad Mini Retina and a iPad Air (for work) and all three work with the CCK and the C5D via USB.




Are there any choices other than the latest iPod Touch? Maybe something made by another vendor? Still, I do have the CCK for the Lightening connector.

Bob Graham


----------



## TeslaModelS

WARNING: Newbie here!
  
 My current setup is an Heir Audio 4.Ai connected directly to an iPhone 5s.  Source files are mostly ALAC with some iTunes Store purchases.
  
 I'm interested in upgrading my setup, including the JH Audio JH13 Pro Freqphase at some point.  But as a stepping stone (especially since I gather CIEMs would probably require an amp anyway), I'm considering the JDS Labs C5D.  I had the opportunity to test the C5D but only with the amp section (the store didn't have the CCK) and was a bit "disappointed".  It's probably not the C5D's fault but just my newbie ears not noticing any significant improvement.
  
 Two (probably related) questions:
 1.  Although I'm loving the Heir Audio 4.Ai and don't currently hear any significant deficiencies, I believe I'd benefit from getting a cleaner signal through an external DAC.  Any thoughts?  Do you think it's likely I'd get an SQ bump from the C5D?
  
 2.  The 4.Ai's seem pretty easy to drive and I don't listen at high volume - could I get a DAC only like the ODAC and just connect the 4.Ai to the ODAC?  Why would I need an amp for an IEM?
  
 Thanks in advance for any pointers!


----------



## zenpunk

There is plenty of quality DAPs around and if you only use in ears, customs or not, there is absolutely no need for an amp.
 I got a C5D to pair with my android phone, which sound great on its own, but I slightly preferred the sound of the C5D. 
 The ODAC as you mentioned is a DAC only so only has line level outputs so you can't plug you IEM in it.


----------



## headwhacker

teslamodels said:


> WARNING: Newbie here!
> 
> My current setup is an Heir Audio 4.Ai connected directly to an iPhone 5s.  Source files are mostly ALAC with some iTunes Store purchases.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you are exclusively using iems, customs or universal and no plans on using full size headphone, you are better off getting a high quality DAP. Getting an amplifier to upgrade the SQ of your current setup would yield the least to no difference at all.


----------



## pieman3141

I just ordered a pair of AKG K712s. Will the C5D be able to power these headphones fairly well? I'm not looking for the ultimate experience, mind you, but an acceptable one.


----------



## miceblue

pieman3141 said:


> I just ordered a pair of AKG K712s. Will the C5D be able to power these headphones fairly well? I'm not looking for the ultimate experience, mind you, but an acceptable one.



Yup that should be a good pairing. I like to use the C5D's bass boost with the K 701 and it's awesome for gaming and watching movies.


----------



## psonoda

r010159 said:


> I have purchased the C5D. It will arrive by Thursday. What I need now is a portable source that works well with the C5D. I prefer to be using the DAC USB input. Would an iPod work with this amp/DAC? How would this work out wrt SQ? Will I need an iPod Touch for the digital signal to the DAC? I do have an iPod Nano that I may use until I can actually afford to purchase something better. This would mean bypassing the DAC part. But I still am willing to consider other options, particularly to make use of the DAC.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> ...




Is the same Bob Graham from MERA? If so, small world.


----------



## psonoda

Just received my C5D today. I am using with an iphone 5s and ipad mini via the camera connection USB adapter. Is anyone using this config and playing high res files? If so, what player are you using. I realize that you can use up to 96k files.


----------



## r010159

psonoda said:


> Just received my C5D today. I am using with an iphone 5s and ipad mini via the camera connection USB adapter. Is anyone using this config and playing high res files? If so, what player are you using. I realize that you can use up to 96k files.


 
  
 What CCK did you use for your iPhone? I have the iPhone 4S, but there must be something similar for it. I wonder if I can use the 32-pin to USB connector with a portable USB hub to make it work? I have the O2 + ODAC working with my iPad 4 with the Lightening to USB camera adapter and USB hub.
  
 Bob Graham


----------



## molika

headwhacker said:


> If you are exclusively using iems, customs or universal and no plans on using full size headphone, you are better off getting a high quality DAP. Getting an amplifier to upgrade the SQ of your current setup would yield the least to no difference at all.



 


agree. just get a dx50 or a x3 or the upcomming dx90 or x5.

cheers


----------



## genpatton7

r010159 said:


> What CCK did you use for your iPhone? I have the iPhone 4S, but there must be something similar for it. I wonder if I can use the 32-pin to USB connector with a portable USB hub to make it work? I have the O2 + ODAC working with my iPad 4 with the Lightening to USB camera adapter and USB hub.
> 
> Bob Graham


 
  
 For an iPhone 4S with iOS 7, the iPad CCK works perfectly with the C5D. JDS Labs recently made a blog post covering all of the DAC connection methods for Android and iDevices: http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=838.


----------



## AzrinRain

teslamodels said:


> WARNING: Newbie here!
> 
> My current setup is an Heir Audio 4.Ai connected directly to an iPhone 5s.  Source files are mostly ALAC with some iTunes Store purchases.
> 
> ...


 
  
 To (hopefully) answer your query:
 1. Using an external DAC to bypass the internal one produces a completely different sound signature, rather than just cleaner signal per se. If you want a clean(er) signal while retaining most of your iDevice's sound characteristics, an amp like the C5 should suffice instead of a DAC. And i'd like to say, that this is a highly subjective matter which means you should try it out before buying. Get a CCK (it doesn't cost much) and be sure of what you want to hear before emptying out that wallet.
  
 2. If you're interested in getting an ODAC, do note that your setup should be: iPhone > CCK > USB hub > ODAC > 4.Ai.
 The CCK has a current consumption limit of 5mA, while the ODAC is 4 times that. Using a USB hub fools the iPhone into thinking that the attached device is running within the limit. I believe that the ODAC works well on a desktop setup, but as far as mobile usage is concerned, it's quite messy.


----------



## ostewart

Also the ODAC doesn't have a dedicated headphone amp, so it's not a good idea to connect the headphones directly to it.


----------



## AzrinRain

ostewart said:


> Also the ODAC doesn't have a dedicated headphone amp, so it's not a good idea to connect the headphones directly to it.


 
 Ah, yes. That, too. The O2 + ODAC combo is a great, transparent _desktop_ DAC setup, and if you need a portable DAC setup with sound characteristics nearing that of the O2 + ODAC, the C5D is a good way to go.
 The only caveat is that you need extra cables (i think the shortest possible route from your iPhone > C5D is about 6 1/2 inches long), but you're getting the whole setup at prices waaay more cheaper than MFi certified external DACs. A small sacrifice for affordable quality audio.


----------



## BB 808

azrinrain said:


> Ah, yes. That, too. The O2 + ODAC combo is a great, transparent _desktop_ DAC setup, and if you need a portable DAC setup with sound characteristics nearing that of the O2 + ODAC, the C5D is a good way to go.
> The only caveat is that you need extra cables (i think the shortest possible route from your iPhone > C5D is about 6 1/2 inches long), but you're getting the whole setup at prices waaay more cheaper than MFi certified external DACs. A small sacrifice for affordable quality audio.


 
 I've had the C5 over a year now and I still LOVE it!  When the C5D came out I was excited to upgrade but I did not want a mess of cables for a portable setup.  So after months of deliberating and researching and trolling, I got a V-MODA Vamp Verza (Apple certified MFi device) to connect with my Apple iPod/iPhone/iPad/MacBook Pro/iMac.


----------



## TeslaModelS

My wallet sends its sincere gratitude to headwhacker, AzrinRain, and molika! I was minutes from plunking money down (sorry JDS).
Meanwhile, I'll look into the Fiio X5. Not sure I'm willing to sacrifice the convenience of a single device though!

Thanks again
Tesla


----------



## r010159

azrinrain said:


> Ah, yes. That, too. The O2 + ODAC combo is a great, transparent _desktop_ DAC setup, and if you need a portable DAC setup with sound characteristics nearing that of the O2 + ODAC, the C5D is a good way to go.
> The only caveat is that you need extra cables (i think the shortest possible route from your iPhone > C5D is about 6 1/2 inches long), but you're getting the whole setup at prices waaay more cheaper than MFi certified external DACs. A small sacrifice for affordable quality audio.


 
  
 Yes, according to JDS Labs, you do not need a USB hub like you do with the O2 + ODAC. Even though the cabling is needed,  I still think the C5D will make for a good transportable amp/DAC.  I do not know if another amp/DAC would actually make for a better choice without spending more money.
  
 The Fiio products have a well-documented problem with the battery. I think one needs to make sure there is a good return policy, or at leasts extended coverage, before purchasing one. The Fiio X3 I had stopped charging in during the time it was charging. Not only did the battery not charge any longer, but I also could not use the unit plugged in.
  
 Bob Graham


----------



## campj

pieman3141 said:


> I just ordered a pair of AKG K712s. Will the C5D be able to power these headphones fairly well? I'm not looking for the ultimate experience, mind you, but an acceptable one.



 

I have been using my C5/ipod classic with the K712 for a couple months, and it's a very good combo for everything I listen to. The multi-position bass boost works wonders for electronic music on the K712. Good stuff!


----------



## Miss Roxy

My engraved case and silver endplate arrived today. ^^
  

  

  

  
Original Case


----------



## Varoudis

How muc





miss roxy said:


> [COLOR=0066FF]My engraved case and silver endplate arrived today. ^^[/COLOR]
> 
> 
> 
> ...




How much is a case plus the engraving?


----------



## Miss Roxy

varoudis said:


> How much is a case plus the engraving?


 
  
http://www.jdslabs.com/products/80/aluminum-case-for-c5-c5d-or-odac/
  
$15.99 before shipping cost.
  
You also need to leave a note on the check out page that you want it engraved - and then send the picture to John.


----------



## miceblue

Wow, that's a really great design! I like it!

I'm still in the process of writing my C5D review. School has been really busy recently though, so I haven't had much time to add stuff to it. >.>


----------



## kernel8888

ok I have seen on jds's website that you there are 2 gain settings and 3 bass boost settings. I had the c5 and am looking into the c5d, and when i had my c5 there was just the volume toggle and a bass boost switch. The bass boost switch only went from off to on, with no middle setting. How is this 3 settings? and how do you switch the gain from low to high? just by turning up the volume toggle?


----------



## miceblue

kernel8888 said:


> ok I have seen on jds's website that you there are 2 gain settings and 3 bass boost settings. I had the c5 and am looking into the c5d, and when i had my c5 there was just the volume toggle and a bass boost switch. The bass boost switch only went from off to on, with no middle setting. How is this 3 settings? and how do you switch the gain from low to high? just by turning up the volume toggle?



The C5 was recently updated in December to include the 3-way bass toggle switch.

You adjust the gain by pushing the volume button into the C5/D.


----------



## kernel8888

miceblue said:


> The C5 was recently updated in December to include the 3-way bass toggle switch.
> 
> 
> 
> You adjust the gain by pushing the volume button into the C5/D.



 


I see, so the c5 i used to have must have been older. Thanks!


----------



## TechoGeek

miceblue said:


> Wow, that's a really great design! I like it!
> 
> I'm still in the process of writing my C5D review. School has been really busy recently though, so I haven't had much time to add stuff to it. >.>




I look forward to hearing your impressions. After ordering and returning the E12 I thought your YouTube description was spot on. I was about to order the BH2 because of how you described it in the video, and for the battery life. I keep coming back to the C5 however for the reported improved sound quality. I wish more places would sell portable amps in store so customers could try them before you purchase them.


----------



## r010159

Hello all!
  
 I now have a C5D and an iPod Touch with the CCK for Lightening cable all in my possession.  This setup works very well. I will report if there is any sound quality difference between the O2 + ODAC combo and the C5D on batteries.
  
 Bob Graham


----------



## dbdynsty25

r010159 said:


> Hello all!
> 
> I now have a C5D and an iPod Touch with the CCK for Lightening cable all in my possession.  This setup works very well. I will report if there is any sound quality difference between the O2 + ODAC combo and the C5D on batteries.
> 
> Bob Graham




Yup. Fantastic combo right there.


----------



## r010159

dbdynsty25 said:


> Yup. Fantastic combo right there.


 
  
 Yes it is.  But I have one problem. How can I get the computer to recognize the C5D when the USB cable is plugged into it? I am right now charging the unit. I have tried turning on the DAC/amp, but no power llight turns on. I have also toggled the CHG/BAT switch to no avail. I am going to try again when it is no longer being charged. But I have been told I can still use it when the unit is charging anyways by JDS Labs.
  
 What do you think?
  
 Bob Graham


----------



## dbdynsty25

r010159 said:


> Yes it is.  But I have one problem. How can I get the computer to recognize the C5D when the USB cable is plugged into it? I am right now charging the unit. I have tried turning on the DAC/amp, but no power llight turns on. I have also toggled the CHG/BAT switch to no avail. I am going to try again when it is no longer being charged. But I have been told I can still use it when the unit is charging anyways by JDS Labs.
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> Bob Graham




You've got me. I plug mine in and the computer recognizes it right away and off I go. Both my Windows 7 PC and my MacBook Air work fine. Sounds defective to me.


----------



## ostewart

Make sure you switch the power switch on when it's plugged into the computer otherwise it just charges. The power switch has to be on for it to be recognized as a DAC


----------



## r010159

ostewart said:


> Make sure you switch the power switch on when it's plugged into the computer otherwise it just charges. The power switch has to be on for it to be recognized as a DAC


 
  
 I had to reboot my computer before it recognized the C5D. The volume started out pretty loud, so I quickly turned it down.  I do not think there is any damage to the headphones.  By the way, the C5D has a different frequency response, I think there is a slight rolloff in the high frequency range. This may be my imagination at this point. But the sound is still very good 
  
 However, when I disconnect it from the PC and plug it into my iPod Touch, I have to turn the volume up to the maximum for my DT880 250-ohm headset. Is this normal?
  
 Bob Graham


----------



## jseaber

r010159 said:


> Hello all!
> 
> I now have a C5D and an iPod Touch with the CCK for Lightening cable all in my possession.  This setup works very well. I will report if there is any sound quality difference between the O2 + ODAC combo and the C5D on batteries.
> 
> Bob Graham


 
  
 Hi Bob,
  
 Since the DAC establishes a connection with your iPod Touch, and not the PC, check the following:
  

Is Windows still searching for drivers? The first connection on a Windows PC can be slow. Click "Skip" if possible to end the driver search. It's going to pick default UAC1 drivers anyway.
Have you tried another USB port?
Have you tried a different computer and USB cable?
  
 Basically, this sounds like a minor mechanical or software annoyance.


----------



## jseaber

> Originally Posted by *r010159* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> However, when I disconnect it from the PC and plug it into my iPod Touch, I have to turn the volume up to the maximum for my DT880 250-ohm headset. Is this normal?


 
  
 Volume can be set at the PC, the iPod Touch, and C5D. You must have substantially different volumes at your PC and iPod, so turn the iPod's volume up.


----------



## r010159

jseaber said:


> Volume can be set at the PC, the iPod Touch, and C5D. You must have substantially different volumes at your PC and iPod, so turn the iPod's volume up.


 
  
 Really!  I tell you, sometimes I do not think for myself. I am so used to having the volume on the PC dialed in, I forget such a thing is there.
  
 By the way, once I rebooted my Mac, it did recognize the C5D.
  
 Now, what headphone is a good pairing with this amp? I am thinking of the ATH-M50s. For the price, this looks like it would be a good purchase. What do all of you think?
  
 Bob Graham
  
 PS: As usual, you are on top of things.


----------



## DangerToast

I'm curious if anyone is using the C5D with the moto X and had any thoughts about the sound. Also, if anyone is using the C5D with an ipod classic as an amp I'd also be interested to hear what you think.


----------



## ostewart

I use my C5D with my iPod Classic 7G, it sounds great. It was my go to rig before the X3 replaced the iPod (still using line-out). I will refurb my iPod at some point as the batttery and both back and front plates need replacing.


----------



## Figjam

r010159 said:


> Now, what headphone is a good pairing with this amp?


 
  
 I have tried a few now, and always come back to my Fischer Audio FA-011s. These headphones are a great match for this amp.


----------



## miceblue

r010159 said:


> Hello all!
> 
> I now have a C5D and an iPod Touch with the CCK for Lightening cable all in my possession.  This setup works very well. I will report if there is any sound quality difference between the O2 + ODAC combo and the C5D on batteries.
> 
> Bob Graham



I can compare the C5D to the ODAC and the O2 in my review. In short though, the ODAC/O2 combo seems more transparent to me, but the C5D is a much better choice for portable use and bringing it around.

Also, the V-MODA M-100 pairs well with it, as does the AKG K 701.


----------



## r010159

miceblue said:


> I can compare the C5D to the ODAC and the O2 in my review. In short though, the ODAC/O2 combo seems more transparent to me, but the C5D is a much better choice for portable use and bringing it around.
> 
> Also, the V-MODA M-100 pairs well with it, as does the AKG K 701.


 
  
 Interesting. I have a question. How long is a full charge suppose to last with the C5D? Ids there anyway to extend its lifetime on a charge? I would have to plug in a battery to its USB port, which means I will only be able to use the audio input instead of the USB input to the DAC.
  
 Bob Graham


----------



## pukemon

dangertoast said:


> I'm curious if anyone is using the C5D with the moto X and had any thoughts about the sound. Also, if anyone is using the C5D with an ipod classic as an amp I'd also be interested to hear what you think.


 
 i've used with my moto x but only for about couple hours with flacs only, haven't even tried mp3's.  16/44.  i guess to give you a comparison or an idea, i also have a note3.  it sounds real good through note3 but i lose some "space" through c5d when just using headphone amp.  by that i mean surround or dimensions.  don't know if my descriptions are accurate.  but the note3 is very flat, solid frequency response all the way across, pretty good stereo separation, very good solid bass and controlled.  the moto x was very surprising when i first fired it up with my 16ohm beyer cop's.  about the same signature as my note3, but better stereo sepration, pretty flat but slight rolloff on low end and bass is a little loose but still very good.  through the c5d amp it is very solid.  it helps solidify the bass and hardly any space is lost, unlike the note3, and still very good stereo separation.  through the dac, they both sound the same.  not really big enough difference for my untrained ears to notice, but otoh, perhaps there should be little difference?
  
 like i said i've only given about a couple hours listen total on my x, but if i had to pick which signature i prefer, i actually prefer the x.  the x was surprisingly good straight up and very very good with the c5d just used through headphone amp.  emphasis on surprisingly good.  wasn't expecting it.  even though there is slight roll off on bass, it is still very flat and a solid fun sound.  really like it with my 250ohm beyer DT770's also.  alas, i bought the x because it might've been the only chance to own a wood grained phone and i kept seeing comments on how solid the phone is overall without looking for comments.  also, the x is very limited on storage space.  about 26 usable gigs and no microsd slot, thus i bought the phone for it's usability, smaller size and better low light camera and it is serving that purpose very well.  my note3 is fixing to get upgraded to Sandisk's 128gb micro sd when i see it's the real deal.  i really like my note3 sound also.  when i want to jam out and have fun, i just use my cop's.  when i want to be critical or really dig into sound i use my dt770's.  but the moto x is no slouch.  unless you're an absolute bass addict, i think most people will enjoy how great it sounds.  it pairs with the c5d very well also, better than my note3.  if the moto x had a micro sd slot, it would probably be my go to portable source.  don't know if that answered your question, but i hope it helped.  btw, i don't know what the output impedance is, but it is similar to note3.  the volume is about same when i hook directly with headphones.  plenty of volume with 16 ohm phones and could probably handle up to about 80ohms sufficiently if i had to guess even though i have nothing to compare to as my impedance jumps straight to 250ohm phones.


----------



## pukemon

r010159 said:


> Interesting. I have a question. How long is a full charge suppose to last with the C5D? Ids there anyway to extend its lifetime on a charge? I would have to plug in a battery to its USB port, which means I will only be able to use the audio input instead of the USB input to the DAC.
> 
> Bob Graham


 
 i haven't really timed it, but i guess about 8ish hours.  i know i haven't gotten anywhere close to higher 11ish it was rated.  and the 8ish was a mix of dac and straight headphone amp listening.  it can vary greatly depending on what you listen to and how.  and yes, you can use an external battery.  nothing wrong with just using amp portion.  i actually prefer it sometimes.  depends what i am liistening to.


----------



## miceblue

r010159 said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > I can compare the C5D to the ODAC and the O2 in my review. In short though, the ODAC/O2 combo seems more transparent to me, but the C5D is a much better choice for portable use and bringing it around.
> ...



I actually haven't done a timed test for the battery life yet, but I can do that today. From average use as a portable amp with my iPod 5G, I get around 8-10 hours roughly.

On that note, I'll use battery life tests similar to what I did with the C5. I'll do the amp section today, and the DAC/amp tomorrow.



miceblue said:


> Um...well then, a real-world test for the battery life. It literally just died for me on the bus right now and I've been timing the battery life with my iPhone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## r010159

miceblue said:


> I actually haven't done a timed test for the battery life yet, but I can do that today. From average use as a portable amp with my iPod 5G, I get around 8-10 hours roughly.
> 
> On that note, I'll use battery life tests similar to what I did with the C5. I'll do the amp section today, and the DAC/amp tomorrow.


 
  
 I am getting well under 10 hours. I will time it myself for an accurate result. Then I can compare the results. How do you know if the C5D is fully charged? The blue light goes out. But should I continue charging longer? The volume level probably also matters.
  
 Bob Graham


----------



## miceblue

Yeah I just looked back at the stopwatch and it was at 8 hours and 13 minutes. The C5D was out of juice when I looked at it, so I'm guessing it's less than 8 hours. Maybe 7-7.5 hours?


----------



## jseaber

r010159 said:


> How do you know if the C5D is fully charged? The blue light goes out. But should I continue charging longer? The volume level probably also matters.


 
  
 C5D charges until the battery is full, during which time the blue LED is on. Charging automatically stops when the battery reaches 100% and the blue LED goes out. It's impossible to charge longer.
  
 http://www.jdslabs.com/pdf/Instructions_C5D.pdf


----------



## miceblue

Hm, I got ≤ 6 hours of use while using the C5D as a USB DAC with the iPhone 4S (iOS 7.0.4).


Same testing procedures:

 Playing Ottmar Liebert's "Up Close" album in V0 LAME MP3
 High gain
 Volume level 4/63
 Battery mode
 No bass boost


----------



## r010159

Thank you for the battery usage figures!
  
 This is an interesting result. I think for _extended_ use I am going to get an audio cable and use the C5D in amp only mode. The DAC in the Apple products are reasonably good given the type of product. But if I want very good quality out of my DT880s, I will use the DAC part. I am also going to be getting a 15000 mAH USB battery to further extend its usage when used as an amp only. Life will be good for my mother who will be using this setup.
  
 Bob Graham


----------



## Chadwide

I like what I'm reading about this device, but have a few questions.... Anyone tried these with the er4s? Also is the battery replaceable? This is the type of product that should last 10+ years if treated well.... I hate to see good electronics wasted by non-replaceable batteries.


----------



## ostewart

You can replace the battery, it uses an iPod touch battery.


----------



## Chadwide

Thanks. Great to know. I'll pick one up and give it a listen...


----------



## palermo

Got new one from local store, Headfonia store. Whatever headphone I paired going into slight dark zone, quiet and give rubble bass on 2nd step bass boost, even my HD555 (soundstage mod).
 Need more airy vocal and soundstage.  
  

  
  
 Palermo


----------



## r010159

I now have my mother hooked up to the C5D, iPod Touch, and a large USB battery. The 12000 mAh battery should see her all night and through the morning. Then I will charge it back up while she continues to use the C5D without the USB battery. During the charging of the USB battery, she can use the DAC part of the C5D.
  
 I think I notice a difference between using it as a DAC/amp combo and just the amp part. The DAC seems more detailed, for lack of a better word. I find this difficult  to believe, So I will look at the difference in settings with this and the iPod Touch, And there is more gain with it plugged into the computer. I will check this out and verify my impressions.
  
 Bob Graham


----------



## AzrinRain

Okay, here goes a weird request. Can anyone try out if the DAC section works via USB from a PS3 / PS4?
  
 I'd love to try it out, but unfortunately my PS3 has the YLOD.


----------



## palermo

C5D paired with ipod touch 5 via CCK, I found stuttering sound, occasionally. It's my friend ipod. He bought lightning to USB cable from ebay, not Apple certified. Anyone have experienced yet?


----------



## Zorander

Got the C5D today. It's working great out of the box with the Note 2 and Neutron player. It's a notable improvement from the Note 2's already decent built-ins, esp. in terms of background noise (which the CK100Pro picks up easily). It's very clean-sounding, for lack of better words.

I need to get a replacement micro-to-mini OTG cable though. I accidentally bent the pin on one end when I put it all into my pocket. Anyone knows of a good place to buy short OTG cable (that also ships to Australia and for reasonably low cost)?

Thanks.

.


----------



## billymav

zorander said:


> Got the C5D today. It's working great out of the box with the Note 2 and Neutron player. It's a notable improvement from the Note 2's already decent built-ins, esp. in terms of background noise (which the CK100Pro picks up easily). It's very clean-sounding, for lack of better words.
> 
> I need to get a replacement micro-to-mini OTG cable though. I accidentally bent the pin on one end when I put it all into my pocket. Anyone knows of a good place to buy short OTG cable (that also ships to Australia and for reasonably low cost)?
> 
> ...


 

 We've got some available and we're based in Melbourne.


----------



## r010159

The only thing that I do not like is the volume control. It appears like it might be proven to be fragile with long term use. But I can see how this allows the unit to be more portable. And the unit does remember the last volume setting.
  
 BG


----------



## dbdynsty25

r010159 said:


> The only thing that I do not like is the volume control. It appears like it might be proven to be  fragile with long term use. But I can see how this allows the unit to be more portable.
> 
> BG




That and it allows for finer volume adjustment. I like a knob better too but I see the advantage as well.


----------



## AzrinRain

dbdynsty25 said:


> That and it allows for finer volume adjustment. I like a knob better too but I see the advantage as well.




My experience in carrying the O2 around is that when i reach for something else in the bag, i tend to accidentally adjust the volume knob (with little resistance), and it does tend to annoy me at times. 
The C5D's volume adjustment makes it nearly impossible to do that. You need a degree of force to move the volume control, and the very low profile switch hinders accidental taps.
I'm also happy that i don't need to keep pushing the switch a million times (sorry for the exaggeration) to adjust for more power-hungry cans. Just push and hold.


----------



## r010159

Does anyone find the fidelity of the O2 to be better than the C5D? I have not had a chance to verify this since the unit has been in use 24/7 by my family. But this is something that I suspect.
  
 Bob Graham


----------



## ostewart

Yes the O2 has slightly more soundstage and also sounds slightly flatter on the whole, the C5/C5D has maybe a very slightly hint of warmth. But the difference is very smal


----------



## palermo

I've done replace stock opamp to soic lme49720ma. I feel more soundstage come to C5D. I know it will void warranty, but for my sound pleasure, it really worthed to me.


----------



## headwhacker

r010159 said:


> Does anyone find the fidelity of the O2 to be better than the C5D? I have not had a chance to verify this since the unit has been in use 24/7 by my family. But this is something that I suspect.
> 
> Bob Graham




From the portable amps I have this is how I like them in terms of SQ alone. My Sound signature preference is Neutral/transparent to a little bit bright. 

(Hifi-M8???) > O2 = UHA-6SMKII > UHA-4 > C5D > Sony PHA-1.

Hifi-M8 is kind of difficult to compare because you can't isolated the DAC to it's amp.

For me I find C5D warmer compared to UHA-4. Since I lean towards brighter sound signature than a warm one UHA-4 is slightly ahead, otherwise they are equal. The warmness of C5D's low end in combined with UHA-4's bright highs would be perfect for me.


----------



## ostewart

LME 49720 is one of my favourite op-amps, bet it sounds great in the C5D, but i'll probably leave mine stock.


----------



## ostewart

Was it easy to replace?


----------



## palermo

Ostewart, little hard to lift up soic opamp and keep it alive, yes I broke all of its leg, 
 Since I don't really like OPA2227 sound, never mind 

 I am not complain amp section of C5/C5D, it great performance by great design too. But for my taste, I feel stock opamp not so clear ini high extension, lack of air in its frequency. But maybe it's due to I am a phonak minded, hahaha. I feel more comfortable with 49720


----------



## ostewart

Thanks, may try if i get the courage one day.


----------



## rushofblood

Hi guys! Am considering laying down some cash on one of these for portable usage with my iPhone 5. Would just like to know if anyone has experience using these with the CCK and outputting 24/48 files from the default iOS 7 music app? I emailed the guys at JDS but they don't know for sure if it'll work.


----------



## miceblue

rushofblood said:


> Hi guys! Am considering laying down some cash on one of these for portable usage with my iPhone 5. Would just like to know if anyone has experience using these with the CCK and outputting 24/48 files from the default iOS 7 music app? I emailed the guys at JDS but they don't know for sure if it'll work.



In2ition is working just fine for me right now with the CCK.
http://www.hdtracks.com/in2ition

I didn't know the iPhone can decode 24/48 natively.


----------



## rushofblood

miceblue said:


> In2ition is working just fine for me right now with the CCK.
> http://www.hdtracks.com/in2ition
> 
> I didn't know the iPhone can decode 24/48 natively.



Awesome. Just curious, what format do you have those files in?


----------



## s0ckpupp3t

Hi guys,
  
 I just got my C5D and I'm having a serious problem.
  
 I'm running the C5D through my laptop and every time I do something on the laptop like open a new browser window or switch windows/applications, etc., the sound cuts out for a second or two.  Is my unit defective? I have a FiiO E17 that I've used extensively with the laptop and have never run into this problem.
  
 The laptop is a Dell Latitude E7240 running 64-bit Windows 7 Enterprise.
  
 Any suggestions / advice?  I'm really liking what I'm hearing from the C5D compared to the E17 (and my red C5D looks drop dead gorgeous) but I can't use it if I'm going to have constant drop outs like this.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Vemon

I received my upgraded C5D this week and used for 2 days so far so good. I want to say that JDS Lab have the best customer service.
  
 Thank you John


----------



## r010159

I have my iPod Touch used with the C5D. I also can have it connected up to a 15000 mAh USB battery when home. This battery keeps it working all day and night long. This setup has worked very well for a family member of mine. Meanwhile, I use may O2 + ODAC combo plugged into my computer. Both units are working very well for me.

BG


----------



## miceblue

s0ckpupp3t said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I just got my C5D and I'm having a serious problem.
> 
> ...



Have you tried other USB ports? Sometimes computers' USB ports don't supply enough power to a device. e.g. one USB port on my MacBook works, but the one right next to it doesn't work very well with external DACs.


----------



## jseaber

miceblue said:


> Have you tried other USB ports? Sometimes computers' USB ports don't supply enough power to a device. e.g. one USB port on my MacBook works, but the one right next to it doesn't work very well with external DACs.


 
  
 This sounds like a DPC latency issue. Note that C5D runs asynchronously, so it's going to behave differently from a DAC running in adaptive mode. If you need adaptive mode, we can arrange that.
  
 I'd check latency first:
  
 http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=434


----------



## s0ckpupp3t

John, 
  
 Thanks for the informative blog post.  Not experiencing pops or looped playback as described in your post.  Rather, the sound completely cuts out for a second or two every couple minutes or so.
  
 I started running the DPC Latency Checker and I'm under 500µs and averaging about 100µs, even when I experience a drop out so not entirely sure that's the culprit.  However, now that I know what to look for I'll exercise my Google-fu and do some more research and report back.
  
 s0ckpupp3t
  
 Edit: John, does the dropout issue go away if you change the C5D's DAC programming from asynchronous to adaptive USB mode?


----------



## jseaber

Dropouts can also be a symptom of high latency. Since your latency averages normal, you can rule that out. See if you can replicate the issue with a different USB cable, another USB port, or even another computer.
  
 No one else has reported dropouts (that I know of), so I could be wrong about all of these guesses. Email us if you can't find a solution.


----------



## GettingBuckets

Sorry if this question has been answered already but does the C5 provide enough juice to power some orthos like Mad Dogs or Hifiman stuff?


----------



## imackler

gettingbuckets said:


> Sorry if this question has been answered already but does the C5 provide enough juice to power some orthos like Mad Dogs or Hifiman stuff?


 
  
 Powering the Mad Dogs is odd. I'd say yes. But that doesn't mean that others won't say you need 1 MW per channel for them to sound their best.


----------



## miceblue

gettingbuckets said:


> Sorry if this question has been answered already but does the C5 provide enough juice to power some orthos like Mad Dogs or Hifiman stuff?



Mad Dog sounds pretty good with the C5D or C5. I don't have too much experience with the HiFiMAN stuff though.


----------



## ThurstonX

gettingbuckets said:


> Sorry if this question has been answered already but does the C5 provide enough juice to power some orthos like Mad Dogs or Hifiman stuff?


 
  
 I just tested the C5 with my HE-500s for another Head-Fier.  Here's what I told him.  YMMV.
  
  
 Just finished a quick test using three songs and three sources, though that variable made little difference.  The songs were "Tom Sawyer" and "The Trees" (both 24-bit 96 kHz FLAC) by Rush, and "The Caves of Altamira" from Citizen Steely Dan.  Sources were a HiFimeDIY Sabre U2 DAC chained to their USB isolator and finally to the PC; a Schiit Bifrost Uber via USB; a Rockbox'd 6th Gen iPod with FiiO LOD cable (so, using Line Out mode).
  
 My HE-500s are using my new DIY cable (about 10 feet of Mogami W2799), with a Grado 1/4"-to-1/8" adapter
  
 The C5 was always in High Gain mode
  
From the HiFimeDIY and Schiit DACs

"Tom Sawyer" did not distort until it was already louder than I would listen.  So, that's good.
"The Caves of Altamira" didn't reach the same level before distorting, but it was on the side of acceptable loudness.
"The Trees" seems to been have mastered at a lower volume, and it distorted on the unacceptable side of "as loud as I'd like it."
  
 All tracks FLAC through foobar2000
  
 The iPod's line out is pretty weak, by comparison.  I cranked the C5 all the way up, and it barely got loud enough on any of them.
  
 So, depending on the source and how the music was mastered, you may or may not achieve acceptable levels, if your volume preferences are close to mine.
  
 Hope that helps


----------



## GettingBuckets

So it's both yes and a no I guess. I know people in the Mad Dogs thread swear by desktop or full-size amps, or anything that provides plenty of power for orthos. It's just that there are few cost-efficient and actually portable amps to drive them, which is why I was wondering if the C5 would do good enough of a job.


----------



## miceblue

I still don't understand the whole power thing with planar magnetic headphones. I've tried the Mad Dog on an Emotiva speaker amp and sure it sounded better, but I heard the same differences between the C5 and the Emotiva as I did with a very easy-to-drive and efficient V-MODA Crossfade M-100 headphone. The differences I was hearing was a result of the amp itself, not the power. The "planar magnetic headphones need at least 1 W of power" thing is still a myth to me, and it doesn't make sense from an engineering perspective either. I had to lower my digital volume to even get to listenable volume levels past the channel imbalance region with the Emotiva; I am 100% certain the so-called 1 W power rule doesn't apply in that case as I wasn't listening loud enough to even get anywhere close to needing that much power.


----------



## GettingBuckets

Yea it's strange to me, but I guess that's a discussion for another time and another place. I feel like if we get into what it takes to power a ortho or voltage, watts, power talk, it will stray off the JDS C5 thread haha.


----------



## s0ckpupp3t

> Dropouts can also be a symptom of high latency. Since your latency averages normal, you can rule that out. See if you can replicate the issue with a different USB cable, another USB port, or even another computer.
> 
> No one else has reported dropouts (that I know of), so I could be wrong about all of these guesses. Email us if you can't find a solution.





jseaber said:


>


 
  
 Quick report:
  
 Learned more about DPC latency over the past few hours than I ever would wish upon another person.
  
 Although DPC Latency Checker suggests that I don't have a DPC latency issue, I did all the recommended optimizations from various internet sources  to minimumize DPC latency in Windows 7 (such as http://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/pc-optimization-guide-for-windows-7/) such as updating drivers and BIOS, disabling CPU throttling in the BIOS, setting performance to "High Performance" in the power settings, setting processor scheduling to background services, etc.  I'm still getting dropouts but I think the frequency is reduced somewhat.
  
 Issue is replicated with various USB cables and each of the USB ports on the Dell laptop.  
  
 HOWEVER, the C5D doesn't seem to have the problem on my wife's 2013 MacBook Pro so it may be the C5D having issues with the particular OS/driver/hardware configuration in the Dell laptop rather than an issue with the C5D itself.
  
 jseaber, I'll shoot you an email.


----------



## Solrighal

Hello folks. I have some questions I'd like to ask if it's alright. I've been using a Fiio E18 to power my V-Moda M-100's and it's doing the job admirably well. I got a birthday present today of a pair of AKG Q701's. For the first time my E18 is using the high gain setting. It drives them loud enough, mostly but I'm thinking maybe it could be better. Now obviously as these AKG"s are brand new they're nowhere near burned in yet. I do like the overall sound signature though so they're definitely keepers. To my questions...

Does anyone here use the C5D with the Q701's and does it drive them well? Better than E18? If so what qualities does it bring to the table? I do like the look of the C5D and I know it's generally well respected but I don't know how it fares with the Q's.

Thanks.

*edit* - I forgot to say I plan to use the C5D with a Samsung Galaxy Note 3 via OTG USB. I assume that shouldn't be a problem?


----------



## miceblue

solrighal said:


> Hello folks. I have some questions I'd like to ask if it's alright. I've been using a Fiio E18 to power my V-Moda M-100's and it's doing the job admirably well. I got a birthday present today of a pair of AKG Q701's. For the first time my E18 is using the high gain setting. It drives them loud enough, mostly but I'm thinking maybe it could be better. Now obviously as these AKG"s are brand new they're nowhere near burned in yet. I do like the overall sound signature though so they're definitely keepers. To my questions...
> 
> Does anyone here use the C5D with the Q701's and does it drive them well? Better than E18? If so what qualities does it bring to the table? I do like the look of the C5D and I know it's generally well respected but I don't know how it fares with the Q's.
> 
> ...



I use the K 701 with the C5D often and I really enjoy the pairing. The bass boost of the C5D is really nice too for movie watching, gaming, or electronic music. 

I don't know much about the E18, but the C5D should work with the USB OTG support.


----------



## palermo

> *edit* - I forgot to say I plan to use the C5D with a Samsung Galaxy Note 3 via OTG USB. I assume that shouldn't be a problem?


 
  
 Here is C5D pair with Gal Note3. simply auto detect with stock samsung audio player. I can play 24bit-48khz with this.


----------



## Solrighal

palermo said:


> Here is C5D pair with Gal Note3. simply auto detect with stock samsung audio player. I can play 24bit-48khz with this.




That's good to know. Is the stock player the only play that can deal with high resolution files? I ask because with regular FLAC files it sounds garbage. I use Neutron which sounds much better but I don't have any high resolution music to play. Does high resolution make much of a difference?


----------



## miceblue

solrighal said:


> Does high resolution make much of a difference?



In short: no.

The master typically associated with high resolution audio does make a difference though. 


The long answer:


miceblue said:


> Yessss....this is what I've been saying.
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/hope-pono
> 
> 
> ...





miceblue said:


> goodsongs said:
> 
> 
> > On the article sombody wrote
> ...


----------



## palermo

I meant, even stock player can do this job automatically. Moreover 3rd party music player like USB Audio Player Pro just give the max capabilities. 
Samsung player only support sampling rate no more than 48kHz.


----------



## Solrighal

OK guys, I understand. Basically put it's 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing. I have always been very cynical about high resolution audio because, as Miceblue points out, if the original master is Crap then no amount of post production is going to improve things. As we say over here "you can't make a silk purse out of a pig's ear". 

Good. That also saves me some money, which is nice. 

What I really need to know though is will the C5D give an improvement in sound quality over my Fiio E18? In a way I kinda hope not because I've only recently bought the Fiio (admittedly for a different, more sensitive, pair of cans). It goes loud enough with the AKG Q701'S, generally, but I'm not sure it's giving me the best quality. The big limitation I have is that it must be portable. If I could remove this limitation and open my choice up to desktop amps then I would have lots of choice.


----------



## Sinik

Hello, i found a great seller on ebay who can make custom usb cables, so you can choose length, type of connector (right angled, left angled, straight) prices don't change it's still 3.99$ + 2$ shipping.
  
 i first orderer this cable:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/10cm-Mini-USB-cable-right-angle-for-Creative-Zen-X-Fi2-/300503841459?ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123 this is the seller
  
 but it's not 10cm long it's 16cm long including connectors, so i told him and he said he can ask the factory to make it 10cm including connectors, i received it some days ago, but unfortunately 10cm is just too short to use with the c5d and an ipod touch 5th gen. so now i asked him to make a 11cm cable.
  
 i also asked if it was possible to make a custom OTG mini usb to micro usb of 9cm so that i can use the c5d with my cellphone with android (huawei p6), i'm still waiting for an answer. i'll keep you up to date if this is possible or not.


----------



## ClieOS

sinik said:


> Hello, i found a great seller on ebay who can make custom usb cables, so you can choose length, type of connector (right angled, left angled, straight) prices don't change it's still 3.99$ + 2$ shipping.


 
  
 For once people actually custom make cable that isn't over-priced? Great to know, now please tell us who he is


----------



## Sinik

clieos said:


> For once people actually custom make cable that isn't over-priced? Great to know, now please tell us who he is


 

 yup  it's the seller from the link i gave


----------



## Sinik

like i promessed some pages ago in this thread, here are some pictures of my setup with my ipod touch 5th gen:
  
 this is with the custom cable (10 cm long including connectors)
  
 http://s21.postimg.org/41vnrdjt3/IMG_20140313_142905.jpg
 http://s15.postimg.org/4w029nsrf/IMG_20140313_142951.jpg
  
 this is with the original cable you can buy here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/10cm-Mini-USB-cable-right-angle-for-Creative-Zen-X-Fi2-/300503841459?ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123 so that one is like i said 16 cm long including connectors:
  
 http://s24.postimg.org/u6c3l1kph/IMG_20140313_143222.jpg
 http://s17.postimg.org/6594ala9b/IMG_20140313_143116.jpg
  
 so nowi'm waiting for the 11cm cable that will fit perfectly.


----------



## Solrighal

sinik said:


> Hello, i found a great seller on ebay who can make custom usb cables, so you can choose length, type of connector (right angled, left angled, straight) prices don't change it's still 3.99$ + 2$ shipping.
> 
> i first orderer this cable:
> 
> ...




Nice find


----------



## Sinik

ok so the seller has replied:
  


> Sorry, after checking with the factory, it does not have the OTG (On-The-Go) certified micro usb to mini usb cable. Thank you.


 
 so no custom cables for android users unfortunately. i think the best option for android users is this: http://www.jdslabs.com/products/86/micro-to-mini-usb-otg-cable/
  
 i'm going to order one soon.


----------



## r010159

miceblue said:


> In short: no.
> 
> The master typically associated with high resolution audio does make a difference though.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You have done a really good job demonstrating it is the mastering process that makes the difference. I want to add on a related note that some people can actually hear the difference between 256K lossy compressed files and FLAC files. I did an blind A/B test on a musician with a ear superior to mine. This really surprised me. This is one reason why I purchase the CDs instead of downloading the music online. I do find the price difference to be negligible, and I have a physical copy for a backup. But also an increase in resolution, like 192 kHz/24 bit FLAC files over the CD specs, does not make a difference. An understanding of signal theory proves this.
  
 What do you guys think?
  
 BG


----------



## jellofund

sinik said:


> so no custom cables for android users unfortunately. i think the best option for android users is this: http://www.jdslabs.com/products/86/micro-to-mini-usb-otg-cable/
> 
> i'm going to order one soon.


 
  
 That's a pity. I was hoping your seller might be able to make one at a decent price as I've been looking at buying this one but the shipping is a killer: 
  
 http://store.treoo.com/main/nocturnal-audio-right-angle-mini-usb-to-right-angle-micro-usb-otg-interconnect-cable.html
  
 I currently use JDS' OTG cable and it's perfectly fine for desktop type use. I don't find it anywhere near as practical for pocket use though as it adds a good couple of inches to the length of my phone/C5D 'stack' and even light contact with the cable (which happens a fair bit when walking) can result in a sharp static noise through my earphones or in some cases audio playback will stop entirely. Weak point seems to be the micro usb (phone end).  
  
 Having the volume / headphone jack end of the C5D facing downwards with the OTG cable facing upwards definitely helps but it makes volume adjustment much more of a hassle.


----------



## Solrighal

I'm very close to pulling the trigger on the C5D but there are some issues I still have and I'd really appreciate if anyone can help me answer them. This has to be an upgrade to my Fiio E18, not necessarily in power output but in sound quality. I feel my E18 is managing to drive my Q701's but I'm sure the quality could be better, perhaps a touch of warmth might help. 

First of all, how powerful is the C5D? I know the E18 puts out 300mW into 32 ohms but the C5D is measured differently, so how do I compare their respective outputs?

Next question. Is anyone here using their C5D via OTG USB to a Samsung Galaxy Note 3 and if so are they having to use a particular player or can I continue to use Neutron?

And finally I think. Has anyone had any engraving done and if so are there any pictures available? 

I know the Odac works well with the Q701's (actually I assume so since they've used a pair on the product page) but I need a mobile amp, sadly. I'm not expecting the same kind of power from a portable as can be output from a mains powered machine but a similar sonic signature would be nice. 

I'm asking all these questions because I have no way of auditioning it in Scotland (I wish) and I'm asking here because who else will know better than you guys. 

Thanks.


----------



## miceblue

solrighal said:


> I'm very close to pulling the trigger on the C5D but there are some issues I still have and I'd really appreciate if anyone can help me answer them. This has to be an upgrade to my Fiio E18, not necessarily in power output but in sound quality. I feel my E18 is managing to drive my Q701's but I'm sure the quality could be better, perhaps a touch of warmth might help.
> 
> First of all, how powerful is the C5D? I know the E18 puts out 300mW into 32 ohms but the C5D is measured differently, so how do I compare their respective outputs?
> 
> ...




power (W) = (VRMS^2) / R

P = (1.182 VRMS)^2 / 32 Ω = 0.0437 W = 43.7 mW @ 32 Ω
3.580 VRMS = 85.4 mW @ 150 Ω
4.146 VRMS = 28.6 mW @ 600 Ω


----------



## Solrighal

miceblue said:


> power (W) = (VRMS^2) / R
> 
> P = (1.182 VRMS)^2 / 32 Ω = 0.0437 W = 43.7 mW @ 32 Ω
> 3.580 VRMS = 85.4 mW @ 150 Ω
> 4.146 VRMS = 28.6 mW @ 600 Ω




Cool, thanks. So if I'm reading that correctly the C5D is putting out roughly 50% more power into the same load. The Q701's are rated at 62Ohms so that'll equate to around 21mW against the 15mW from the E18. That's a healthy increase in power. Sorry, maths has never been my strong point.

Is raw power output the only factor which matters? What I mean is, does more power mean more control? Because my E18 enables more than enough volume as it is, I just sense that it loses its grip when the music gets 'busy', if you catch my drift.


----------



## MistahBungle

solrighal said:


> And finally I think. Has anyone had any engraving done and if so are there any pictures available?




Troll through the thread & you should see plenty of pics of engraving people have had done.


----------



## claud W

Got my C5 and Senn HD25 Aluminum this week. Love the sound. Its been many years since I used an amp with an iPod. My iPod has all tunes on it recorded in Apple lossless to iTunes. Is there a better format than Apple Lossless to record to I tunes then to an iPod? I don't think I can bypass the iPods internal DAC so I did not get a C5d. Just trying to get best portable sound using an iPod. Lastly , does the connector from iPod to C5 make any difference? I just dot a Fio one , but saw fancy ones at ALO. I would appreciate any guidance.


----------



## Solrighal

mistahbungle said:


> Troll through the thread & you should see plenty of pics of engraving people have had done.




Will do.


----------



## ThurstonX

claud w said:


> Got my C5 and Senn HD25 Aluminum this week. Love the sound. Its been many years since I used an amp with an iPod. My iPod has all tunes on it recorded in Apple lossless to iTunes. Is there a better format than Apple Lossless to record to I tunes then to an iPod? I don't think I can bypass the iPods internal DAC so I did not get a C5d. Just trying to get best portable sound using an iPod. Lastly , does the connector from iPod to C5 make any difference? I just dot a Fio one , but saw fancy ones at ALO. I would appreciate any guidance.


 
  
 I think if you're not Rockboxing your iPod, ALAC is the way to go.  I use my Rockbox'd iPod 6th gen with my C5 and the FiiO LOD cable; love it.
  
 I've never tried a really expensive LOD, nor do I plan to.  I can't believe that little cable can make that big a (price) difference.  As an anecdotal point of reference, I bought an expensive aftermarket cable for my HE-500s.  Recently I was bitten by the DIY bug, and made a couple cables for them using Mogami W2799 wire ($0.64/foot! so cheap).  The most expensive parts are the SMC connectors.  Total cost for a six-foot cable is around $20.  I A/B'd my cable vs. my "nice" cable.  Zero difference (anyone wanna buy a "nice" cable?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ).  So, as long as the FiiO LOD is not defective, I think you're fine.
  
 Just my opinion, of course.


----------



## s0ckpupp3t

s0ckpupp3t said:


> Quick report:
> 
> Learned more about DPC latency over the past few hours than I ever would wish upon another person.
> 
> ...


 
  
 My hat's off to John for exemplary customer service and working with me to help resolve my issue.
  
 No more sound dropouts after my C5D was reconfigured to work in USB adaptive mode.  Sound quality is exactly the same and I am once again a happy camper.


----------



## r010159

s0ckpupp3t said:


> My hat's off to John for exemplary customer service and working with me to help resolve my issue.
> 
> No more sound dropouts after my C5D was reconfigured to work in USB adaptive mode.  Sound quality is exactly the same and I am once again a happy camper.


 
  
 What is difference between psych and adaptive modes on the C5D? I thought async is better (more accurate)?
  
 BG


----------



## s0ckpupp3t

r010159 said:


> What is difference between psych and adaptive modes on the C5D? I thought async is better (more accurate)?
> 
> BG


 
 According to JDS Lab's blog, at least for the DAC used in the C5D, the difference between adaptive and asynchronous modes for the DAC is essentially within the margin of error when it comes to jitter.


----------



## bartus

Hi has anyone tried the C5D with UERM's or can someone tell me if this would be a good combination? Source would mainly be a iphone 4 or 5 on flight modus.


----------



## mld218

Just wondering if anyone has tried the JDS C5D with the AK100?
  
 Thanks
 Mike


----------



## pockits

Long Long LOOOOOONG time without posting friends..
  
 I have the AK100 aswell and... even with the almost new c5d they sound very very good, This is a very powerful combo, and I am not sure enough if it sound better than his older brother C5. I might tend to think the C5 has a little bit more resolution, even thou they share same heart.... 
  
 Anyway, for the price, this is by far the best portable combo I have heard... I sometimes forget the fact that I have a soulution system and I keep the headphones on.. for a long time.


----------



## mld218

What kind of cable are you using to connect the AK100 and C5D?
  
 Thanks
 Mike


----------



## Sinik

jellofund said:


> That's a pity. I was hoping your seller might be able to make one at a decent price as I've been looking at buying this one but the shipping is a killer:
> 
> http://store.treoo.com/main/nocturnal-audio-right-angle-mini-usb-to-right-angle-micro-usb-otg-interconnect-cable.html
> 
> ...


 
 omg... 36$ shipping for me... :x so much xD
  
 i also bought the jds labs otg cable but unfortunately, my huawei p6 is not supported... i don't know what to do to make it work


----------



## Solrighal

I'd really like to go for the C5D but im not sure it'll work with my Note 3 and I'm also not sure it would be a sonic upgrade when compared to my Fiio E18. Does the C5D share the 'house' JDS Labs sound because if it does I've read that the Odac pairs well with the Q701's?


----------



## Semont

Has anyone had an issue with the C5D's drivers?
  
 Doesn't seem like it since I've done a couple searches on the internet and nothing has shown up.
  
 I've got the code 10 error just after 4 days of owning one that I purchased from an authorized retailer.
  
 I've pretty much done everything I could think of; uninstalling the driver, reinstalling it, rebooting my computer after a reinstall and trying different cables and ports.


----------



## jseaber

@Semont: Responded to your email earlier. This has been addressed deep in this thread once before (rare error). In summary, the DAC memory has been lost. We can provide a quick reset guide.
  
 The latest production batch uses locked DAC memory, so this cannot occur.


----------



## Semont

jseaber said:


>


 

 Okay I've returned an email with as much info as I can think to provide.


----------



## SilverEars

Just got it today!  This is a great sounding DAC/Amp like jseaber promised me.  It is the in the light of ODAC/O2 spirit.  It does sound very clear, but a bit brighter than I was expecting.  This is the sound I was hoping for, and first listen put shivers down my spine.  I listened to it with SE846, and I wish I could have tested with TG 334 I sold.
  
 This DAC/Amp needs more exposure!  Great work JDS Labs, I look forward to more products down the line.


----------



## Solrighal

silverears said:


> Just got it today!  This is a great sounding DAC/Amp like jseaber promised me.  It is the in the light of ODAC/O2 spirit.  It does sound very clear, but a bit brighter than I was expecting.  This is the sound I was hoping for, and first listen put shivers down my spine.  I listened to it with SE846, and I wish I could have tested with TG 334 I sold.
> 
> This DAC/Amp needs more exposure!  Great work JDS Labs, I look forward to more products down the line.




I'm currently using a Fiio E18 but have been looking at the C5D as a possible upgrade.

I feel the E18 is a tad lean sounding and hoped the C5D might introduce some warmth when paired with my AKG Q701's but from your comments I'm not so sure. Hmm...


----------



## SilverEars

I actually, it's lacking bass.  I'm not liking the bass boost, it sounds unnatural.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





​


----------



## SilverEars

I think It might be because the USB is not getting enough power so I tried the back where I believe provide more power.  I think it's fuller now.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Sorry for the constant rant, just needed to correct myself.


----------



## SilverEars

solrighal said:


> I'm currently using a Fiio E18 but have been looking at the C5D as a possible upgrade.
> 
> I feel the E18 is a tad lean sounding and hoped the C5D might introduce some warmth when paired with my AKG Q701's but from your comments I'm not so sure. Hmm...


 
 E17 to me is lean at the same time too analytical, lacks naturalness to the sound.  C5D is natural sounding with more clarity, but I'm not liking the bass, doesn't sound natural.  It's quick tight bass, if you like tight bass, you may love it.  I like variations in the bass.  I know bass requires lots of power, so I will try with different plugs and cables and see if it changes.


----------



## Solrighal

silverears said:


> E17 to me is lean at the same time too analytical, lacks naturalness to the sound.  C5D is natural sounding with more clarity, but I'm not liking the bass, doesn't sound natural.  It's quick tight bass, if you like tight bass, you may love it.  I like variations in the bass.  I know bass requires lots of power, so I will try with different plugs and cables and see if it changes.




I can't see it changing all that much with different cables or plugs. Maybe you can return it still? Your experience has kinda ruled out the C5D and the E17 for me too. I'm looking for warmth, as I think you are. Perhaps iBasso or Leckerton show the way. More research is needed I think.


----------



## SilverEars

This is not a bad DAC/Amp.  It's very clear.  if it has more natural sounding bass it would be perfect.  I don't like the bass boost, it becomes too refined and loses the natural variations.  I'm not sure if the output is really neutral, it has more treble than I would like.  When I listen to some sounds like raindrops, I can tell it's a bit brighter than how the raindrops should sound naturally.
  
 Definitely better than E17 though.
  
 Edit: not natural sounding as I initially thought


----------



## luisdent

The c5d isn't warm or bright really, it's very neutral. And it will bring out your headphone's signature well with its low output impedance. If you want warmth coming from the fiio, you probably wouldn't be happy. But if you want neutral the c5d is excellent.

The detail level is superb though. Very transparent. The bass boost in my experience is excellent. But as it is a certain curve it won't fit every possible headphone, so i can see someone thinking it's not the best. I think it's a good mix of boost and a pretty good curve to fit most earphones well though.

Bottom line though, i wouldn't get the c5d in hopes of tilting the sound any one way. I would get it for accuracy personally.


----------



## SilverEars

After extended listening, I'm starting to like it for it's clarity.  Sound is refined.  There is no bloat and everything sounds very fast.  You can get warmth, you just boost the bass.  Additional bass will add a bit of thickness to the sound.  I would definitely try it and see if you like it.
  
 The bass being too controlled could be the SE836.  I need to try other iems to know if the sound changes to more natural bass with the boost.
  
 When it comes to high definition, it certainly has it.  It tightens the sound.  I went back to my Galaxy S4 and it sounds bloated compared to C5D.  So it is more clear than anything I have.  Clarity, meaning the tones are very controlled.
  
 I like clarity, but I am looking for a bit more natural clarity where it exactly reproduces the recorded sound.  Meaning natural clarity, not just tightening the sound. 
  
 If you hear clapping or hard hitting rain, and based on that you can tell if the treble is extended beyond neutral.  meaning if the sound is life like or not.


----------



## Solrighal

luisdent said:


> The c5d isn't warm or bright really, it's very neutral. And it will bring out your headphone's signature well with its low output impedance. If you want warmth coming from the fiio, you probably wouldn't be happy. But if you want neutral the c5d is excellent.
> 
> The detail level is superb though. Very transparent. The bass boost in my experience is excellent. But as it is a certain curve it won't fit every possible headphone, so i can see someone thinking it's not the best. I think it's a good mix of boost and a pretty good curve to fit most earphones well though.
> 
> Bottom line though, i wouldn't get the c5d in hopes of tilting the sound any one way. I would get it for accuracy personally.




That's the most informative thing I've read on the C5D thus far. Would you be in a position to compare it's sound to the Fiio E18 by any chance?


----------



## Solrighal

silverears said:


> After extended listening, I'm starting to like it for it's clarity.  Sound is refined.  There is no bloat and everything sounds very fast.  You can get warmth, you just boost the bass.  Additional bass will add a bit of thickness to the sound.  I would definitely try it and see if you like it.
> 
> The bass being too controlled could be the SE836.  I need to try other iems to know if the sound changes to more natural bass with the boost.
> 
> ...




I haven't heard them but I'd imagine those SE836's are no slouches when it comes to detail so the C5D should suit them well if it's main characteristic is transparency. That's actually a pretty good argument for me pairing the C5D with my Q701's as they don't exactly lack detail either. 

We're getting there.


----------



## SilverEars

More extended listeing.  The mids lacks body, and the sound is unnatural.  I don't know if it's because of the brightness, the high pitched sound doesn't have enough body to sound natural.  What I mean by natural is a sound have a body with a shape, and C5D sounds like it shaves it off.  That's the reason why it sounds refined yet without body.  Therefore, it's not high definition in the sense that it has all the necessary natural detail.  I guess my initial impressions fooled me into thinking it was clear and detailed, yet it only is refined, lacking natural body figure of the sound.  The treble is tight and refined, but the high mids are not as forward as the ODAC/O2.  I still favor the ODAC/O2.  Nothing has beaten it yet.


----------



## SilverEars

silverears said:


> I went back to my Galaxy S4 and it sounds bloated compared to C5D.  So it is more clear than anything I have.  Clarity, meaning the tones are very controlled.


 
 This is with the stock player on the Galaxy, not the Neutron Player app.  The Neutron Player app sound fantastic still.  I don't know what this app does, but it definately ups the sound quality on my S4.  I don't know what this software does to hardware, but it's ingenious!


----------



## Solrighal

silverears said:


> This is with the stock player on the Galaxy, not the Neutron Player app.  The Neutron Player app sound fantastic still.  I don't know what this app does, but it definately ups the sound quality on my S4.  I don't know what this software does to hardware, but it's ingenious!




I totally agree here. Neutron is the single most impressive Android music player out there. I only switched from iOS to Android last November and in that time I'm sure I've had every single music app available. None get even close to Neutron. It's like drawing back the curtains on a new day. Fabulous!


----------



## SilverEars

More thoughts.  Sorry, I keep getting more observations I have to share.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ok, I can see why someone might think it's neutral, but not natural sounding to me.  The treble is not natural, it's too refined or sharp(shaved,does reveal the flaws or the figures).  by neutral I mean the high mids are not forwarded like I would like.  It's not exactly neutral IMO, the treble is not.  I personally have a FR that I prefer which is neutral everywhere, but the high mids with full body, and of course must be natural sounding.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 That's the thing I never liked about the Fiio products, it's sound is not natural to my ears.  Sounds too electronic.


----------



## Solrighal

What were you using before the C5D?


----------



## SilverEars

I compare with ODAC/O2, which I have ready to compare at all times.


----------



## Solrighal

I've been researching the C5D and the consensus seems to be that it's a fairly transparent amplifier and...

Hang on, idea. Do you actually have the ODAC/O2 there with you? If so, is it possible for you to route the signal from the ODAC to the amplifier section of the C5D, thus bypassing the O2 and the DAC in the C5D? My Fiio allows that.


----------



## SilverEars

Of course I have it, how would I test it if I didn't? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes, I've tested that, and the C5D amp recesses the sound of the ODAC.  Dunno why.


----------



## Solrighal

So it's the amp section that's the problem and not the DAC? I kinda expected the reverse if anything.


----------



## miceblue

solrighal said:


> So it's the amp section that's the problem and not the DAC? I kinda expected the reverse if anything.



The C5D's DAC does indeed sound different than the ODAC to me. The ODAC sounds more open and transparent, the C5D a tad bit warmer and more congested.

The amp part is a bit brighter than the O2, as I indicated in my C5 review (which shares the same amp section as the C5D).


----------



## luisdent

solrighal said:


> So it's the amp section that's the problem and not the DAC? I kinda expected the reverse if anything.


 
  
 I've a/b switched between the c5d and my other amps, including my apogee audio interface, which includes a very nice apogee dac. I find the c5d to be the same excellent flat response as the apogee. The apogee is used in music studios for it's reference quality. I don't hear any differences at all. I believe most people would find the same is true of the odac and o2 if they did a blind test.
  
 If you have a headphone that requires the greater power of the o2 you might hear a difference, but most of the earphones and headphones mentioned thus far are more than capable of being driven by the c5d. I think the biggest difference people here between amps and phones comes down to two main factors. Output impedance and expected response of their earphones.
  
 As an example, someone might have an earphone that has recessed treble. They pair it with an amp that is brighter than normal with a less than optimal high output impedance and find the sound to be reasonably neutral to them. They get the c5d, which is flatter than most rulers, and the the low output impedance results in their earphones sounding as they were designed under optimal conditions. This reveals the recessed treble and sounds more warm to them. Thus, they then think the c5 is a warmer amp.
  
 Or similarly, with a different earphone and amp, the earphone may have boosted treble. The amp's high output impedance dampens the treble so it sounds reasonably neutral to the user. When they switch to the c5d, the low output impedance reveals the true boosted treble response, and they think the c5d is a bright amp.
  
 I have compared over at least 30 high-end phones in the last year with various amps and devices. I believe the c5d is an incredibly neutral amp and dac. I find no audible difference comparing it with any other good quality amp. This is based on double blind switching. The c5d will give you reference sound if you have phones that it can properly power. Sure, you can discuss "synergy" and things like that, but it is my opinion that if you are going to describe the sound of an amp itself and call it bright or warm, you need to take it out of the context of one single phone. I personally take reviews with a grain of salt if I don't know the reviewer well or they don't do any blind testing. It is too easy, even when you're aware of the effect, to think you hear something because you are expecting it. This has been scientifically shown to happen with audio comparisons.
  
 The c5d is a neutral amp/dac with a well chosen double bass boost selection and a reasonable amount of power for most phones on the market. I don't see any problem matching an amp to an earphone you like and be happy with the sound, however, I'd get an accurate amp first and then match an earphone to the amp personally. The change in earphone will make more difference than the change in amp. And some earphones are very customizable with simple mods, resistor adapters, etc.


----------



## SilverEars

Have you tried leckerton?  What is most high end iem you tested it with?


----------



## bartus

Could someone please confirm if this is a good match with UERM's?!?


----------



## ostewart

I must agree with luisdent, with all the headphones i've tested over a long time, i have never found the C5/C5D to be unnatural in bass, mids or highs. The highs are not over pronounced or bright, the bass is not unnatural, it is all just very linear and neutral. It doesn't alter the signature as such, just tightens and refines. Never taking away any body of the core sound signature. 
  
 It may sound this way if you have come from a relatively warm source, or from a source with higher output impedance.


----------



## SilverEars

I dunno, I'm comparing it to ODAC/O2 which the goal was lowest distortion, output impedance, neutral sound possible.  There is a blog that proves that measurements(image captures of the FR and triggers), and my listen sessions with very high end iems such as the 334 and 836 backs it up.  Higher end phones are very revealing  of sources so it's easier to decern performance of the sources.


----------



## luisdent

silverears said:


> I dunno, I'm comparing it to ODAC/O2 which the goal was lowest distortion, output impedance, neutral sound possible.  There is a blog that proves that measurements(image captures of the FR and triggers), and my listen sessions with very high end iems such as the 334 and 836 backs it up.  Higher end phones are very revealing  of sources so it's easier to decern performance of the sources.



And you are comparing them how? Are you unplugging phones and switching gear? You'd be surprised how much that can affect comparisons. If you think the difference is great enough to be "easily" noticeable, then even the designer of the o2 would disagree. And if the differences are smaller, i wouldn't be so sure without a more proper test.


----------



## SilverEars

To me difference is easily decernable when I compare them.  To me the difference matters, to others it may not matter as much.  By no means am I saying this is a bad DAC/Amp, but ODAC/O2 tops it.  None of my gears have yet to match ODAC/O2 yet in terms of what like to hear out of the headphones.  I was a bit let down because I'm searching for ODAC/O2 level or better for a portable.


----------



## Solrighal

luisdent said:


> I've a/b switched between the c5d and my other amps, including my apogee audio interface, which includes a very nice apogee dac. I find the c5d to be the same excellent flat response as the apogee. The apogee is used in music studios for it's reference quality. I don't hear any differences at all. I believe most people would find the same is true of the odac and o2 if they did a blind test.
> 
> If you have a headphone that requires the greater power of the o2 you might hear a difference, but most of the earphones and headphones mentioned thus far are more than capable of being driven by the c5d. I think the biggest difference people here between amps and phones comes down to two main factors. Output impedance and expected response of their earphones.
> 
> ...







ostewart said:


> I must agree with luisdent, with all the headphones i've tested over a long time, i have never found the C5/C5D to be unnatural in bass, mids or highs. The highs are not over pronounced or bright, the bass is not unnatural, it is all just very linear and neutral. It doesn't alter the signature as such, just tightens and refines. Never taking away any body of the core sound signature.
> 
> It may sound this way if you have come from a relatively warm source, or from a source with higher output impedance.




From what you guys are saying it would seem my original plan to swap out my Fiio E18 and replace it with the C5D in a bid to tone down the treble and add overall warmth to my AKG Q701's might be fruitless. 

That's fair enough I guess. I buy the argument that the ideal amplifier is a straight wire with gain.

Valves it is then.


----------



## luisdent

solrighal said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > I've a/b switched between the c5d and my other amps, including my apogee audio interface, which includes a very nice apogee dac. I find the c5d to be the same excellent flat response as the apogee. The apogee is used in music studios for it's reference quality. I don't hear any differences at all. I believe most people would find the same is true of the odac and o2 if they did a blind test.
> ...


 
  
 Yes, that would be my opinion of a great amplifier. Something so transparent you don't know it's there. It just makes things louder. With the dac as well. Deliver the audio files as they are with no alteration. In both cases, it is possible to improve a source and therefore have it change the sound, and vice versa. But in the most basic sense, it should be as if this is no amp in the chain, just more power as tim the tool man taylor used to say.  (Just don't let him mod your amp)


----------



## SilverEars

There is a DIY amp called "the wire"  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Supposedly, it's very clean.


----------



## luisdent

silverears said:


> There is a DIY amp called "the wire"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, I have so many of those amps. They just never seem loud enough.


----------



## SilverEars

luisdent said:


> Yeah, I have so many of those amps. They just never seem loud enough.


 
 I'm not kidding, it actually exist.  google it, it is suppose to be very clean.  It's perfect for me since I need a very clean amp for sensitive IEMs.


----------



## luisdent

silverears said:


> I'm not kidding, it actually exist.  google it, it is suppose to be very clean.  It's perfect for me since I need a very clean amp for sensitive IEMs.



Haha i thought you were being funny. The c5d is a VERY clean amp and great for sensitive iems, especially because jds will cater the gain to your earphones i believe if you ask.


----------



## Semont

In case anyone is wondering, the Motorola RAZR 925 works audio out with an otg usb cable with the C5D when Cyanogenmod 11 is installed.
  
 I'm using the fiio L17 and the Neutron Music Player
  
 Unfortunately, since the usb ports are so awkwardly placed on both devices, the cable sticks out to the side and they will not line up back to back (that is, rubber feet on the back of the 925) without the C5D being slanted. However they can line up properly if the C5D is flipped over since the mini usb port isn't centered on the C5D. In fact, if you place both devices on a flat surface with the cable untangled, one device will be upside down.
  
 At the moment, I'm using a Koss porta pro bag to put store them on the go (get it? otg? haha..) and it's a lot faster than binding them together with elastics and protects both of them from scratches as well. The carrying bag's mouth just happens to be at the right length so that when the mouth is fastened, only the edge of both devices will be covered. Fortunately, the bag against the 925's volume control provides enough tactile feedback so that I can change tracks while it's in sleep mode.
  
 Edit: Might be just me but it seems like the bass adjustment via the switch seems to be more powerful when the dac is in use.


----------



## utdeep

I ordered a C5D yesterday and I'm really looking forward to it.  Unfortunately, I've been a snob when it comes to DACs and amps over the past few years.  For some strange reason, I've felt like if an amp/dac cost less than $300, it wasn't going to be enough of an upgrade.
  
 The ODAC was okay, but I preferred other DACs.  The only reason why I want the C5D is the PCM5102A chip in it.  I loved it in the WA7 but its not a portable amp.  I liked it in the Alo Audio Key, but my Windows based machines didn't deliver enough current to keep the chip from clipping.  With its own battery, I'm sure that the C5D  can deliver enough power to the chip to make it do its magic.
  
 The amp in the C5D is just gravy.  Is there any way to switch the C5D to DAC only mode?


----------



## jseaber

utdeep said:


> I ordered a C5D yesterday and I'm really looking forward to it.  Unfortunately, I've been a snob when it comes to DACs and amps over the past few years.  For some strange reason, I've felt like if an amp/dac cost less than $300, it wasn't going to be enough of an upgrade.
> 
> The ODAC was okay, but I preferred other DACs.  The only reason why I want the C5D is the PCM5102A chip in it.  I loved it in the WA7 but its not a portable amp.  I liked it in the Alo Audio Key, but my Windows based machines didn't deliver enough current to keep the chip from clipping.  With its own battery, I'm sure that the C5D  can deliver enough power to the chip to make it do its magic.
> 
> The amp in the C5D is just gravy.  Is there any way to switch the C5D to DAC only mode?


 
  
 It's possible to convert the 3.5mm analog input jack to a DAC line-output. This would allow you to use C5D as an amp+DAC, or just a DAC (instead of amp+DAC, or just amp). It's a quick soldering modification if you're interested.


----------



## utdeep

I'm definitely interested. Would I just send back the amp after I receive it? Talk about amazing customer service! Could you also optimize it for an IEM? I plan on using it with my SE846 exclusively.


----------



## tracyca

I would also like to get in on this mod!


----------



## Mmet

Is there any way or connection between the coax out to mini USB ???


----------



## utdeep

jseaber,
  
 You should seriously consider the DAC line-output as a normal option because this would be one of the few battery powered instances of the PCM5102A DAC which could be used in conjunction with another amp.  
  
 As I mentioned before, while the ODAC gets a lot of press as being very neutral, I think the majority of folks would enjoy a more musical DAC.  Woo Audio and ALO certainly regard this DAC very highly.


----------



## jseaber

utdeep said:


> I'm definitely interested. Would I just send back the amp after I receive it? Talk about amazing customer service! Could you also optimize it for an IEM? I plan on using it with my SE846 exclusively.


 
  
 Please contact us privately with your order number if you'd like to arrange a custom modification. We process thousands of items per month, so a package without an RMA # would likely be delayed.
  


mmet said:


> Is there any way or connection between the coax out to mini USB ???


 
  
 Coax would require new circuitry, sorry.
  


tracyca said:


> I would also like to get in on this mod!


 
  
 I'll post images as soon as possible for those with a DIY passion.
  
 Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## Mmet

jseaber said:


> Coax would require new circuitry, sorry.


 
 sorry for not making that clear .... what i meant is there is any connection i can use between Fiio x3 coax out andthe mini usb of the C5D dac ?? .... if so i would buy C5D instead of C5


----------



## miceblue

luisdent said:


> O.k.  I've done some initial comparisons, and although I might get some flac for this, here are my findings:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm doing some A/B tests with the K 701 right now. I did approximate volume matching with a 1 kHz sine wave via Audacity and I'm listening to Daft Punk's "Give Life Back to Music" song in 24/88.2. Using the FiiO HS2 to switch between amps, I'm noticing that the C5D has a slightly deeper low-end compared to the C5 (bass boost is off for both amps and at low-gain). Especially with the bass guitar notes, the C5D hits them harder and it's more noticeable near the end of the song with the background people talking. Overall though they sound pretty darn similar, as is to be expected.


----------



## luisdent

miceblue said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > O.k.  I've done some initial comparisons, and although I might get some flac for this, here are my findings:
> ...



Perhaps you're hearing the difference in format? I heard no difference in the amp sections with a volume matched a/b. however, if you have 24/88 going through the c5d, perhaps you're picking up the increased dynamics showing in the bass.? Just a thought. What are you playing through the c5? The cd? The 24/88 output through your source?


----------



## miceblue

luisdent said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > luisdent said:
> ...


MacBook Pro playing the 24/88.2 file via Audirvana Plus -> ODAC -> splitter -> C5 and C5D -> HS2 box -> K 701.

The K 701 has more rumble for me with the C5D. It's slight, but noticeable for me.


----------



## slackerpo

miceblue said:


> MacBook Pro playing the 24/88.2 file via Audirvana Plus -> ODAC -> splitter -> C5 and C5D -> HS2 box -> K 701.
> 
> The K 701 has more rumble for me with the C5D. It's slight, but noticeable for me.


 
 could you elaborate in the comparison, with "both bass boosters on"?
  
 any other reference with other headphones or in-ears?
  
 i did a comparison myself the the other day, but i wasnt able to match the specs with the line in, as i was on a impromptu situation. thanks!


----------



## miceblue

slackerpo said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > MacBook Pro playing the 24/88.2 file via Audirvana Plus -> ODAC -> splitter -> C5 and C5D -> HS2 box -> K 701.
> ...



Yeah I can try that test later. I have the first generation of the C5, so the bass boost will be on maximum, and at low gain.


----------



## Binge

Just picked up a C5D.  It doesn't work with my stock Verizon S3 on 4.3, but I've tested the amp and DAC (using pc).  Using a pair of MadDog 3.2s for general testing, and ran it into an E/90 energizer to power the koss ESP-950s and it just works.  I haven't had an "ooo ahhh" moment, but I own a host of other neutral devices just no one as compact as the C5D.
  
 Have to say this is a very capable device.  I've seen a lot of warnings about the amp's neutrality, but I am finding this to be a positive aspect.  The soundstage is very clear and high quality recordings show their merit.  It's really what I was hoping for considering all of the measurements JDS went through the trouble of recording.    This thing is great because it has dead quiet silence, and plays the music as it is intended.
  
 I've read some comments about the amplifier lacking, and I have not experienced anything missing from my music or colored/distorted.  Maybe there is a bad pairing of headphones with some reviews?   Oh well.  Happy customer here.


----------



## slackerpo

binge said:


> Just picked up a C5D.  It doesn't work with my stock Verizon S3 on 4.3, but I've tested the amp and DAC (using pc).  Using a pair of MadDog 3.2s for general testing, and ran it into an E/90 energizer to power the koss ESP-950s and it just works.  I haven't had an "ooo ahhh" moment, but I own a host of other neutral devices just no one as compact as the C5D.
> 
> Have to say this is a very capable device.  I've seen a lot of warnings about the amp's neutrality, but I am finding this to be a positive aspect.  The soundstage is very clear and high quality recordings show their merit.  It's really what I was hoping for considering all of the measurements JDS went through the trouble of recording.    This thing is great because it has dead quiet silence, and plays the music as it is intended.
> 
> I've read some comments about the amplifier lacking, and I have not experienced anything missing from my music or colored/distorted.  Maybe there is a bad pairing of headphones with some reviews?   Oh well.  Happy customer here.


 
  
 what software you used? i tried it with my xperia zr on stock 4.3 with USB Audio PRO, and it worked flawlessly. cant say the same for the e18 though, i had to work it around for 10 minutes to make it happen.
  
 for sensitive iems like my se535, the c5s works very well.


----------



## Binge

slackerpo said:


> what software you used? i tried it with my xperia zr on stock 4.3 with USB Audio PRO, and it worked flawlessly. cant say the same for the e18 though, i had to work it around for 10 minutes to make it happen.
> 
> for sensitive iems like my se535, the c5s works very well.


 
 I refuse to use USB Audio Recorder PRO. Would rather buy another, more compatible, device than work with that trainwreck.


----------



## SilverEars

binge said:


> I refuse to use USB Audio Recorder PRO. Would rather buy another, more compatible, device than work with that trainwreck.


 
 yes, but this is Audio Player Pro, not Recorder Pro.  This one has compatability with many compressed and loss-less formats that the RP lacked.  UI still suck without folder recognition, but it lets you hook up to external DAC.  No others can do that, so it's this or nothing for external DAC.


----------



## slackerpo

silverears said:


> yes, but this is Audio Player Pro, not Recorder Pro.  This one has comparability with many compressed and loss-less formats that the RP lacked.  UI still suck without folder recognition, but it lets you hook up to external DAC.  No others can do that, so it's this or nothing for external DAC.


 
  
 yeah, its a shame that Audio Pro, isn't as known and still lingers behind the shadow of Recorder Pro.
  
 it is a very competent player as it is though, like you said, a lot of work to go through still.


----------



## Binge

silverears said:


> yes, but this is Audio Player Pro, not Recorder Pro.  This one has compatability with many compressed and loss-less formats that the RP lacked.  UI still suck without folder recognition, but it lets you hook up to external DAC.  No others can do that, so it's this or nothing for external DAC.


 
 I'm sorry- they are both terrible options.  There are devices out there which do not have this restriction, and I'd rather have something that works completely.  The reason I went with the C5D was because there are compatible devices, and I wouldn't be forced to use slow-feature lacking DAPs which plague the portable market.


----------



## SilverEars

binge said:


> I'm sorry- they are both terrible options.  There are devices out there which do not have this restriction, and I'd rather have something that works completely.  The reason I went with the C5D was because there are compatible devices, and I wouldn't be forced to use slow-feature lacking DAPs which plague the portable market.


 
 I believe the Note 3 doesn't need a software to connect to a external DAC, correct me if I'm wrong.  Not sure what others, possibly G2 also?  iphone only needs a camera connector kit for the C5D, but not sure about others.


----------



## brazm

Does anyone know if the C5 pairs well with the Denon D2000's?


----------



## Cosmic Owl

I can't find any information on the Amp the C5D will take when charging.
  
 I have USB .5A
 a 1A usb phone chargeer
 a 1.5A usb phone charger
 and a 2A usb phone charger
  
  
 Are all these safe to use?  I am guessing yes?


----------



## ClieOS

cosmic owl said:


> ... Are all these safe to use?  I am guessing yes?


 
  
 Yes, they are.


----------



## Cosmic Owl

While using the 5CD over UAC1, I am noticing a quality difference when playing a 24/96 file on my computer using VLC vs the same file on my Note 3 which also plays it at 24/96.
  
 The file being Muse - Follow Me Flac.
  
 Using my computer + vlc just sounds a lot better.  When using VLC I hear all the different parts of the song grab me and demand to be listened too, while from my Note 3 I find myself trying to listen and see if I can hear the same thing.  I have done 15 random blind swaps over the space of 2 days and I can always tell which one is the better sounding one to myself(vlc on the computer).
  
 Trying to figure out what is going on here.  Any thoughts?  I am no expert.  VLC has no equalizer changes or other effects enabled.
  
 The only variables I can think of is maybe the Galaxy note 3 limits UAC1 somehow? Or the players I'm using on the note 3 are causing it?  Or the mini to micro USB cable is creating such a variance then the longer USB - mini cable supplied with the C5D.


----------



## fnkcow

cosmic owl said:


> While using the 5CD over UAC1, I am noticing a quality difference when playing a 24/96 file on my computer using VLC vs the same file on my Note 3 which also plays it at 24/96.
> 
> The file being Muse - Follow Me Flac.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Might be the music player app you're using in Note 3 that's giving you less than ideal audio quality. Neutron and USB Audio Recorder Pro are highly recommended among the list of players available. 
 There's a dedicated thread for Note 3 users here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/678952/samsung-galaxy-note-3-24-bit-192khz


----------



## r010159

fnkcow said:


> Might be the music player app you're using in Note 3 that's giving you less than ideal audio quality. Neutron and USB Audio Recorder Pro are highly recommended among the list of players available.
> There's a dedicated thread for Note 3 users here:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/678952/samsung-galaxy-note-3-24-bit-192khz




The difference is probably how well the compressed files are uncompressed by each player. I think you will find the two to be virtually the same quality with FLAC files, that if they can play uncompressed files.


----------



## ThurstonX

The other factor people need to remember about USB Audio Player (and Recorder) PRO vs. other Android audio players is that the former use a custom USB audio driver that bypasses the native audio chain in the device and shunts the digital signal directly to the attached (external) USB audio device.  That's why it's possible to play hi-res (24/96, or whatever your USB audio device is capable of decoding) files with USB Audio Player/Recorder PRO.  Unless you've got a seriously fancy Android device that has a built-in DAC with those capabilities (I've never read about one), you're limited by the built-in DAC and audio chain.


----------



## imackler

Quick question about how bass boost works. Here's the background: the ER4PT is the ER4S minus 75ohms of resistance. The ER4PT has increased db in both bass and treble. Now here's the question: If decreasing resistance adds bass to the ER4PT, does the bass boost on the C5 increase bass on the ER4S by similarly decreasing resistance? Is that how bass boost works, by decreasing resistance? Not sure if I'm completely insane or even sound sane.


----------



## ClieOS

imackler said:


> Quick question about how bass boost works. Here's the background: the ER4PT is the ER4S minus 75ohms of resistance. The ER4PT has increased db in both bass and treble. Now here's the question: If decreasing resistance adds bass to the ER4PT, does the bass boost on the C5 increase bass on the ER4S by similarly decreasing resistance? *Is that how bass boost works, by decreasing resistance?* Not sure if I'm completely insane or even sound sane.


 
  
 Definitely no.
  
 There are a few ways to do bass boost, but the most common bass boost circuit is usually done by creating a high pass filter inside the feedback loop of the opamp. Opamp is designed to balanced between positive and negative input (where you feed back the output to), and when you offset the negative input, you 'trick' the opamp to believe it need to increase the output, and that's how you set the gain of circuit. By creating a high pass filter in the feedback loop, the opamp will try to increase the output on the lower frequency (which is blocked by the high pass filter) but not on the higher frequency, therefore increasing the bass output. The deeper the corner frequency of the high pass filter, the more bass boost it will be. Also, as high pass filter is made out of RC (resistor-caps) circuit, you can also design where the corner frequency will be and therefore control how wide the bass boost will affect. This is kind of complicated and not easy to explain just by words.


----------



## miceblue

Yay RC circuits.


----------



## imackler

clieos said:


> Definitely no.
> 
> There are a few ways to do bass boost, but the most common bass boost circuit is usually done by creating a high pass filter inside the feedback loop of the opamp. Opamp is designed to balanced between positive and negative input (where you feed back the output to), and when you offset the negative input, you 'trick' the opamp to believe it need to increase the output, and that's how you set the gain of circuit. By creating a high pass filter in the feedback loop, the opamp will try to increase the output on the lower frequency (which is blocked by the high pass filter) but not on the higher frequency, therefore increasing the bass output. The deeper the corner frequency of the high pass filter, the more bass boost it will be. Also, as high pass filter is made out of RC (resistor-caps) circuit, you can also design where the corner frequency will be and therefore control how wide the bass boost will affect. This is kind of complicated and not easy to explain just by words.


 
  
 Thanks a ton for the help, ClieOS. Boy was I barking up the wrong tree.


----------



## miceblue

I think I had too much fun with the C5D's Arduino firmware code in the past week. XD

I changed the C5D's code to have 5 modes of operation:


 DAC circuit off, amp circuit on (low gain), volume change via potentiometer, solid LED, press gain to switch to next mode
 DAC circuit off, amp circuit on (high gain), volume change via potentiometer, blinking LED, press gain to switch to next mode
 DAC circuit on, amp circuit on (low gain), volume change via potentiometer, faster blinking LED, press gain to switch to next mode
 DAC circuit on, amp circuit on (high gain), volume change via potentiometer, even faster blinking LED, press gain to switch to next mode
 DAC circuit on, amp circuit on (high gain), DAC filter change via potentiometer, fastest-blinking LED, press gain to switch back to mode 3


I plan to do a battery test with the amp section only enabled (modes 1 or 2) since the stock C5D code has the DAC portion always enabled (thus sucking up some battery life I think).


----------



## imackler

Does anyone have any experience comparing the Magni to the C5? I know its apples to oranges, but I mainly use my ER4S at work where I listen to lots of classical and I'm wondering if its worth dropping $200 on the C5 over the cost of the Magni, if I don't really need a portable amp. The ER4S is interesting because it is 100 ohm impedance, which means I don't really need the sensitivity of the C5. Of course, if I got the C5, I'd be able to use it with my SE535, too, but I don't feel they benefit a ton from amping.


----------



## slackerpo

imackler said:


> Does anyone have any experience comparing the Magni to the C5? I know its apples to oranges, but I mainly use my ER4S at work where I listen to lots of classical and I'm wondering if its worth dropping $200 on the C5 over the cost of the Magni, if I don't really need a portable amp. The ER4S is interesting because it is 100 ohm impedance, which means I don't really need the sensitivity of the C5. Of course, if I got the C5, I'd be able to use it with my SE535, too, but I don't feel they benefit a ton from amping.




Having tested my se535 with the c5d, i can say theres lots of goods to come about with the couple. I havent tested the modi, but the c5d seems a like a safer catch fosho.


----------



## MarkF786

Would the C5D be a good fit for use with Sennheiser HD580 phones?  I'd be using a MacBook Pro, iPad, and iPhone as sources.
  
 I'm currently using an Apogee One, so I'm curious if the C5D would truly be a step-up in sound quality.
  
 Are there any other good options to consider?  The FiiO E17 seems like it's not very powerful, so I've ruled that out as an option.
  
 Thanks,
  
 Mark


----------



## ostewart

It would work fine with the HD580.
  
 Step up, the C5D is basically very flat and neutral, you have the bass boost if you want a little extra ooomph down low for movies and gaming, other than that it does what it says very well and is a great piece of kit.


----------



## bartus

I don't have the Apogee One or the HD580 but based on my experiences I would make this a reasonably definite NO. I have the Apogee Mini DAC in my home/speaker setup for the last 7 or 8 years now and if Apogee kept up their game just slightly it will outclass the c5d and Fiio e17. Furthermore your kind of comparing apples and oranges. The Apogee is first of all a portable DAC+ADC where E17 and C5D are more marketed as a headphone amp plus DAC option, the former being a bit more expensive than the latter but also packs more functionality (whether you need it or not).
  
 Like I said I can't compare to the Apogee One but my 8 year old Mini DAC outclasses the C5D on every single level sound wise.


----------



## MarkF786

bartus said:


> I don't have the Apogee One or the HD580 but based on my experiences I would make this a reasonably definite NO. I have the Apogee Mini DAC in my home/speaker setup for the last 7 or 8 years now and if Apogee kept up their game just slightly it will outclass the c5d and Fiio e17. Furthermore your kind of comparing apples and oranges. The Apogee is first of all a portable DAC+ADC where E17 and C5D are more marketed as a headphone amp plus DAC option, the former being a bit more expensive than the latter but also packs more functionality (whether you need it or not).
> 
> Like I said I can't compare to the Apogee One but my 8 year old Mini DAC outclasses the C5D on every single level sound wise.


 
  
 I agree with you, but the Apogee One might not have enough power to optimally drive 300+ Ohm headphones, like the Sennheiser HD 580s?  The Apogee One does fine with other low impedance headphones I have (Sennheiser HD 558, Sennheiser PX-100, and Shure E4c), but I wonder if the HD 580 phones (and my older 600 Ohm AKG 240 Monitors) would benefit from having an amp.
  
 With my higher impedance headphones, I have to turn the volume to 75% or more for them to be at my normal listening volume.  With my other phones, I tend to keep the volume around 50%, maybe a little higher or lower depending on which set.
  
 I found some specs on the Apogee One.  It seems to have an output impedance of 30 Ohms and a max output level of +14 dBu (3.9V RMS).  How does that compare to the C5D?


----------



## canikickit1

So the sound quality difference between the C5D and the C5 is more due to the lower output impedance of the C5D vs the C5?
  
 Is the bass boost still about the same between the two?


----------



## Mmet

canikickit1 said:


> So the sound quality difference between the C5D and the C5 is more due to the lower output impedance of the C5D vs the C5?
> 
> Is the bass boost still about the same between the two?


 
 there is no differences of the output impedance between the C5 & C5D any more ..... and they share now the same 3 position bass boost


----------



## canikickit1

mmet said:


> there is no differences of the output impedance between the C5 & C5D any more ..... and they share now the same 3 position bass boost




Nice- so ultimately both c5d and the (new) c5 would sound similar?

I say (new) C5 as I had the first generation 2.2 output impedance one with only one bass switch. I sent my C5 to JDS labs for them to add the stepped bass to it. I'm very curious on what the new C5 would sound with my dunu dn-2000s. I'd assume the extra output impedance of the first generation c5 would contribute a bit to its brightness (despite the 16ohm impedance rating it had.) would the lower output impedance of the new C5 remove this brightness (which I do like to an extent)?


----------



## miceblue

canikickit1 said:


> mmet said:
> 
> 
> > there is no differences of the output impedance between the C5 & C5D any more ..... and they share now the same 3 position bass boost
> ...



Usually the load impedance/output impedance ratio affects the damping factor, which usually contributes to bass control. From my own A/B sessions with the 1st generation C5 and the C5D, the C5D's bass response is a little more extended. The difference isn't huge though, so you're not missing out on much.


----------



## canikickit1

miceblue said:


> Usually the load impedance/output impedance ratio affects the damping factor, which usually contributes to bass control. From my own A/B sessions with the 1st generation C5 and the C5D, the C5D's bass response is a little more extended. The difference isn't huge though, so you're not missing out on much.


 
 Thanks-
  
 Are there things the 1st generation C5 does better than the C5D or vice versa? Or its ultimately the same?


----------



## miceblue

canikickit1 said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > Usually the load impedance/output impedance ratio affects the damping factor, which usually contributes to bass control. From my own A/B sessions with the 1st generation C5 and the C5D, the C5D's bass response is a little more extended. The difference isn't huge though, so you're not missing out on much.
> ...



The only advantage the C5 has over the C5D is a longer battery life (and the price if that's considered, though one has a DAC while the other doesn't). I still have to do the C5D's battery test with the DAC power set to low instead of high, but jseaber replied to an e-mail and said the C5D's battery life as just an "amp" still doesn't have the same battery life as the C5.


----------



## Darner

Hi, I don't have a C5, but am looking for one (used) and have a few questions:
  
 * What does it mean that it's good for sensitive headphones? My headphones are Sony 7520's, which really don't require an amp, but I like the way they sound better with one. I use a PA2V2 from an iPod Nano 5th with a Fiio LOD, but can only use a very small portion of the volume dial on the PA2V2 (maybe 20%) before it's too loud. Essentially it seems there is to much power in the PA2V2 for what I'm using it for. This is even with the gain screws on the inside of the PA2V2 set to their lowest settings. Is this the kind of situation the C5 would do better in (aside from being a better amp in general)? Is that what is meant by being good for sensitive cans?
  
 * Also, I've read the C5 has no (or much less) channel imbalances at very low volumes. Is this true?
  
 * Lastly, I like the idea of being able to program the volume pot to be able to use more of its physical range, given the above-mentioned use scenario. But I don't want to have to invest in the interface and do the soldering, etc (plus the learning curve). Is it possible to have this done free of charge by JDS if I get it second-hand, and would it be necessary? I don't mind maxing out my listening levels with volume at say 50%, but it seems silly to only be able to turn the knob up to 20%, as now. Thoughts?
  
 Thank you for any responses! It seems like a great amp.


----------



## miceblue

darner said:


> Hi, I don't have a C5, but am looking for one (used) and have a few questions:
> 
> * What does it mean that it's good for sensitive headphones? My headphones are Sony 7520's, which really don't require an amp, but I like the way they sound better with one. I use a PA2V2 from an iPod Nano 5th with a Fiio LOD, but can only use a very small portion of the volume dial on the PA2V2 (maybe 20%) before it's too loud. Essentially it seems there is to much power in the PA2V2 for what I'm using it for. This is even with the gain screws on the inside of the PA2V2 set to their lowest settings. Is this the kind of situation the C5 would do better in (aside from being a better amp in general)? Is that what is meant by being good for sensitive cans?
> 
> ...



* Many headphone amplifiers have large digital volume steps, which makes the volume jump too much for headphones with high sensitivity (basically a change in volume from a given change in voltage; a sensitive headphone will have a large change in volume from a small change in voltage). Likewise, many headphone amplifiers have a channel imbalance region that makes the left or right channels at different volume levels and you would need to increase the volume knob past this region to get the right channel balance (which makes the volume much louder with sensitive headphones). The C5 was meant to help alleviate both of these issues, but I'm not too familiar with the PA2V2 to give you an accurate comparison.

* As just mentioned, the C5 was meant to reduce or eliminate the channel imbalance at low volume levels. JDS Labs actually measured the imbalance here:
http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=464


* Regarding programming, the digital potentiometer has 63 total steps including the mute step. With simple programming logic (e.g. if attenuation_volume > 31, attenuation_volume = 31), you can probably set a limit for the volume to not increase after 50% of the steps. You should probably contact JDS Labs about that though (contact@jdslabs.com).





[rule]
My C5D review is published now:
http://www.head-fi.org/products/jds-labs-c5d/reviews/10898


----------



## Darner

miceblue said:


> ... basically a change in volume from a given change in voltage .... the digital potentiometer has 63 total steps including the mute step. With simple programming logic (e.g. if attenuation_volume > 31, attenuation_volume = 31), you can probably set a limit for the volume to not increase after 50% of the steps. You should probably contact JDS Labs about that though (contact@jdslabs.com).


 
 Thanks for the helpful reply, and the review link too.
  
 From this, then, I understand that the 63 steps are absolute (or fixed), and so it's not like you can program it so that the voltage range [ 1 : 62 ] is altered from being [ _voltage x _: _voltage y_ ] to being [ _voltage x/n :_ _voltage y/n_ ]. Like (attenuation_volume = attenuation_volume / 2)? But setting an absolute limit (if av>31 then av=31) might accomplish the same goal, except that the perceived rate of volume change would be the same as before.
  
 I'm at the limits of my technical capacity here, so does this sound right?
  
 P.S. Ah, another question: so the volume mechanism is a dial that works like a rocker does, correct? And it doesn't make clicking noises, does it?


----------



## miceblue

darner said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > ... basically a change in volume from a given change in voltage .... the digital potentiometer has 63 total steps including the mute step. With simple programming logic (e.g. if attenuation_volume > 31, attenuation_volume = 31), you can probably set a limit for the volume to not increase after 50% of the steps. You should probably contact JDS Labs about that though (contact@jdslabs.com).
> ...



Yes, the steps have a fixed change in voltage that can't be programmed, but the maximum volume limit can be set I believe.

The potentiometer itself is a rocker/swivel (you can move it to the left and right about 45˚ and you can push it in as a button) rather than a dial, and it doesn't make any noise (it's a smooth swiveling action). It springs back to the middle/neutral position when left alone and from that, a "teek" sound can be heard.


----------



## r010159

I just realize what is missing in the C5D. A battery level indicator. Right now I am using it not knowing how much battery is left. For that matter, I do not think discharging the battery to empty is good for the battery.


----------



## ThurstonX

r010159 said:


> I just realize what is missing in the C5D. A battery level indicator. Right now I am using it not knowing how much battery is left. For that matter, I do not think discharging the battery to empty is good for the battery.


 
  
 I wonder if it flashes at near empty (5-10 min. remaining?), like the C5 does.  Can't believe JDS would overlook that.


----------



## jseaber

thurstonx said:


> I wonder if it flashes at near empty (5-10 min. remaining?), like the C5 does.  Can't believe JDS would overlook that.


 
  
 The LED flashes while the battery is low, typically < 30 minutes remaining.


----------



## r010159

John has been helping me with various problems I thought I was having with both my O2 and C5D. The O2 turned out to be a bug in the music player I have been using. The C5D problem turned out to be how the headphone plug was sitting in the jack improperly. This seems to be the fault of the headphone plug. Due to its shape, it does not fit solidly in the jack. But another pair of headphones does.

Once again, the O2 and C5D prevailed with good direction by John of JDS Labs.


----------



## ostewart

Updated 1st post with a bit of a C5D review


----------



## maricius

Can anyone compare an iPod Video 5.5g with the C5 with the C5D (as an amp/DAC) in terms of sound signature and overall resolution? From what I'm reading, the C5 (although not by a large difference) is a better amp than that attached to the C5D. However, I'm curious if the iPod's DAC is at least comparable to that of the C5D. Thanks!!
  
 Clarification*: the comparison is between an iPod Video 5.5g/C5 (via LOD) combo vs C5D (as USB DAC AND amplifier)


----------



## r010159

maricius said:


> Can anyone compare an iPod Video 5.5g with the C5 with the C5D (as an amp/DAC) in terms of sound signature and overall resolution? From what I'm reading, the C5 (although not by a large difference) is a better amp than that attached to the C5D. However, I'm curious if the iPod's DAC is at least comparable to that of the C5D. Thanks!!


 
  
 The iPod will not be able to drive many headphones. It does not drive my 250-ohm DT880s well at all. I have read that the DAC on the iPod is good, relatively speaking. So I imaging it is good with earphones. I find the C5D to be a good performer, but a tad lower in SQ compared to the O2/ODAC for instance.
  
 Bob


----------



## maricius

r010159 said:


> The iPod will not be able to drive many headphones. It does not drive my 250-ohm DT880s well at all. I have read that the DAC on the iPod is good, relatively speaking. So I imaging it is good with earphones. I find the C5D to be a good performer, but a tad lower in SQ compared to the O2/ODAC for instance.
> 
> Bob


 
  
 Thanks for the quick reply!! I believe the phrasing of my question wasn't clear enough. I meant the iPod's line-out to a C5 compared to the C5D as a whole. I'm looking for another external amp for the iPod (right now it's stuck to a Fiio E11) as the Duet is rather large and the onboard amp of the iPod Video is recognized to be its bottleneck. If the C5D amp/DAC combo is better than the iPod/C5 combo, I'd get the C5D and just use an Apple CCK with my phone.


----------



## miceblue

maricius said:


> r010159 said:
> 
> 
> > The iPod will not be able to drive many headphones. It does not drive my 250-ohm DT880s well at all. I have read that the DAC on the iPod is good, relatively speaking. So I imaging it is good with earphones. I find the C5D to be a good performer, but a tad lower in SQ compared to the O2/ODAC for instance.
> ...



You can only use the DAC portion of the C5D with devices that support digital output. As of right now, only iDevices running iOS 7 can support digital output data. I use the iPod 5G/C5 or C5D as my main portable rig though. It sounds a bit more transparent than the stock iPod 5G, but if I'm in a pinch, the 5G does the job.


----------



## dmxvz

So.. If I were to use my iphone 5 with the C5D I will need to use a CCK + USB to 3.5mm into the C5D and that will use the C5 dac avoiding double amping.. Am I right ? 
Also I would like to know how the C5 compares to a FiiO E12. Is the difference really that big ?
Thanks!


----------



## dbdynsty25

dmxvz said:


> So.. If I were to use my iphone 5 with the C5D I will need to use a CCK + USB to 3.5mm into the C5D and that will use the C5 dac avoiding double amping.. Am I right ?
> Also I would like to know how the C5 compares to a FiiO E12. Is the difference really that big ?
> Thanks!




Yes that is correct. I didn't have the e12 for very long but what I remember is the bass boost really distorted the sound compared to the c5d. Maybe it's just because I am not a huge fan or the Fiio house sound. The c5d just seemed to be a cleaner device. I guess it should for 100 bucks more.


----------



## dmxvz

dbdynsty25 said:


> Yes that is correct. I didn't have the e12 for very long but what I remember is the bass boost really distorted the sound compared to the c5d. Maybe it's just because I am not a huge fan or the Fiio house sound. The c5d just seemed to be a cleaner device. I guess it should for 100 bucks more.




Nice. Oh ok, yeah I didn't expect to much from my first amp at 120$ but at least it introduced me to this  
What about the leckerton UHA-6S.MKII is just about 30 dollars more than the C5D, have you had the chance to try it yet ? Or do you know which one people "like" the most, I'll need to look for a comparison.


----------



## JP78

Since this is an appreciation thread, I just wanted to say:
 I've had my JDS Labs C5D for six months now.  I love it!  Great for pairing with my Sennheiser HD 598 headphones as well as my Etymotic HF5 IEMs.  Thank you JDS Labs!


----------



## Semont

miceblue said:


> You can only use the DAC portion of the C5D with devices that support digital output. As of right now, only iDevices running iOS 7 can support digital output data. I use the iPod 5G/C5 or C5D as my main portable rig though. It sounds a bit more transparent than the stock iPod 5G, but if I'm in a pinch, the 5G does the job.


 

 Most android devices with cyanogenmod will work with usb out.
  
 I believe a handful of devices will work with usb recorder if they wish to use the DAC without unlocking their bootloader and an even smaller array of phones support usb out without any special software such as the Galaxy S3.


----------



## miceblue

I uploaded my video review for the C5D. It turned out to be a bit of an exercise with Final Cut Pro X since I was using a different camera and I ran into a few problems of the SD card running out of memory and only recording some of the video due to maximum file size limits. XD

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udgOXWVK3Go[/video]


----------



## Mmet

miceblue said:


> I uploaded my video review for the C5D. It turned out to be a bit of an exercise with Final Cut Pro X since I was using a different camera and I ran into a few problems of the SD card running out of memory and only recording some of the video due to maximum file size limits. XD


 
 very nice video review .. thanks


----------



## bartus

miceblue said:


> You can only use the DAC portion of the C5D with devices that support digital output. As of right now, only iDevices running iOS 7 can support digital output data. I use the iPod 5G/C5 or C5D as my main portable rig though. It sounds a bit more transparent than the stock iPod 5G, but if I'm in a pinch, the 5G does the job.


 

 My ipad 1 with the latest ios supported for that deveice (4 or 5 I guess) works fine with the c5d as well.


----------



## johanchandy

dmxvz said:


> Nice. Oh ok, yeah I didn't expect to much from my first amp at 120$ but at least it introduced me to this
> What about the* leckerton UHA-6S.MKII *is just about 30 dollars more than the C5D, have you had the chance to try it yet ? Or do you know which one people "like" the most, I'll need to look for a comparison.


 
 I'm interested to know this as well ............I'm also curious to know how the c5d compares to the likes of the X5 and the dx90


----------



## dmxvz

johanchandy said:


> I'm interested to know this as well ............I'm also curious to know how the c5d compares to the likes of the X5 and the dx90




That's exactly what I'm waiting for because I'm planning to get either a new dx90 or a used ak100 . Anyone ...?


----------



## miceblue

johanchandy said:


> dmxvz said:
> 
> 
> > Nice. Oh ok, yeah I didn't expect to much from my first amp at 120$ but at least it introduced me to this
> ...



I know C5D pairs well with the X5 (I didn't like the on-board amp in the X). There's a local Head-Fier with the DX90 and plans to attend the next local meet in July. I'll be really busy with school in the next 2 months to finish up my undergraduate studies, but I can ask if we can meet before the July meet.



Woah...mobile Head-Fi didn't resize that at all. >.>


----------



## johanchandy

dmxvz said:


> That's exactly what I'm waiting for because I'm planning to get either a new dx90 or a used ak100 . Anyone ...?


 
 I'm hoping for more people will chime in as well!
  
 Quote:


miceblue said:


> I know C5D pairs well with the X5 (I didn't like the on-board amp in the X). There's a local Head-Fier with the DX90 and plans to attend the next local meet in July. I'll be really busy with school in the next 2 months to finish up my undergraduate studies, but I can ask if we can meet before the July meet.


 
 That sounds great! I'll like to know what you think when you hear the dx90.
  
  I'm looking for a portable solution and I'm wondering what would be my best bet. The dx50 left me wanting for more. I was considering my nexus 5(with cyanogenmod 11) paired with either the C5D or the UHA-6S.MKII as a dac/amp option or if I should just go for a dedicated dap like the dx90 or the x5... I am leaning towards the c5d and uha as they are cheaper and I would prefer a phone stack over having an extra device(dap) to carry around. Looking for something that is the most transparent!!
  
 decisions...decisions!!!! :S
  
 I have a Mikros 90 on the way and will be using that as my portable can.


----------



## dbdynsty25

johanchandy said:


> I was considering my nexus 5(with cyanogenmod 11) paired with either the C5D or the UHA-6S.MKII as a dac/amp option or if I should just go for a dedicated dap like the dx90 or the x5... I am leaning towards the c5d and uha as they are cheaper and I would prefer a phone stack over having an extra device(dap) to carry around. Looking for something that is the most transparent!!


 
  
 I wasn't really a fan of the UHA-6S MKII...it was too big and bulky, and I didn't like how it didn't have bass toggle just in case it's needed.  It also didn't seem to have nearly as much power as the C5D...so ultimately I returned it.  The C5D just seems to be a much better all around package.  Sound wise, they were quite similar so I really based it on features and portability when deciding which to keep and which to get rid of.


----------



## johanchandy

dbdynsty25 said:


> I wasn't really a fan of the UHA-6S MKII...it was too big and bulky, and I didn't like how it didn't have bass toggle just in case it's needed.  It also didn't seem to have nearly as much power as the C5D...so ultimately I returned it.  The C5D just seems to be a much better all around package.  Sound wise, they were quite similar so I really based it on features and portability when deciding which to keep and which to get rid of.


 
 Thank you, this was really valuable. I can remove the UHA-6S MKII as an option. So its just the C5D now against the X5 and the dx90!


----------



## chengsta

I have the x5 paired with the original c5.  I have owned the c5 for a year now and I still love it.  No reason to upgrade.  The x5 is really great once you have it on the right firmware you desire.


----------



## PinkLed

I have had the c5 for about 8 months now and have to say its a great piece of equipment. Paired with my cowon X9 and triple fi 10s, I'm certainly in basshead heaven. The build quality is great as well except for one issue, the bass toggle broke off after a few months. I emailed JDS Labs and they said they will replace my C5, however when I suggested using the on off toggle, or something similar (which is metal) as the same switch for the bass toggle in further revision, they claimed they have never heard of anyone having this issue before. I was just wondering if anyone has had a similar experience. As an electro-mechanical engineer myself, I deal with issues like this on a regular basis. Customer feedback and suggestions are vital to the improvement of the product and I was just taken back by their response. 
  
 Besides that small gripe, buy one, you wont regret it.


----------



## luisdent

pinkled said:


> I have had the c5 for about 8 months now and have to say its a great piece of equipment. Paired with my cowon X9 and triple fi 10s, I'm certainly in basshead heaven. The build quality is great as well except for one issue, the bass toggle broke off after a few months. I emailed JDS Labs and they said they will replace my C5, however when I suggested using the on off toggle, or something similar (which is metal) as the same switch for the bass toggle in further revision, they claimed they have never heard of anyone having this issue before. I was just wondering if anyone has had a similar experience. As an electro-mechanical engineer myself, I deal with issues like this on a regular basis. Customer feedback and suggestions are vital to the improvement of the product and I was just taken back by their response.
> 
> Besides that small gripe, buy one, you wont regret it.


I've had mine for a while as well. And i've done a lot of iem comparisons and used that switch probably thousands of times, literally. Mine feels sturdy still. I'll let you know if it ever breaks, but so far so good.


----------



## chengsta

I switch my switch all the time too, still strong after a year!


----------



## miceblue

Likewise, I toggle the switch a lot and I basically throw it in my backpack. The nub itself doesn't stick out very far at all (maybe 2 mm), so that is odd that that happened to you.


----------



## miceblue

It was brought to my attention that the Lightning Apple Camera Connection Kit has an on-board DAC in it. Does anyone know the pathway an audio signal goes through with that in the audio chain? i.e. does it go through both the CCK DAC as well as the C5D's DAC?


----------



## bartus

miceblue said:


> It was brought to my attention that the Lightning Apple Camera Connection Kit has an on-board DAC in it. Does anyone know the pathway an audio signal goes through with that in the audio chain? i.e. does it go through both the CCK DAC as well as the C5D's DAC?


 

 That would be silly, You can't feed a DAC with a DAC output, so the answer is no. There is definetly DSP in the CCK to extract the digital sound singal (otherwise we could use a normal lightning cable) but this wil stay in the digital domain.


----------



## psonoda

The lightning to USB adapter does not have a dac. The lightning to 30 pin adapter does. (Pretty sure). My understanding is that was made to offer analog out for sound devices that used the analog instead of the only digital lightning connector. Both the lightning and the 30 pin to USB adapters have a chip on board to allow the pass through of the digital audio signal.


----------



## PinkLed

Thank you for your experiences guys.
  
 I still believe they should use a metal toggle and this is why:
  
 The toggle is an amber rod surrounded by soft a plastic. I know this because the amber rod was all that was left when the toggle broke. I also had the piece that broke, being the gray plastic. I put this part into pliers and with slight pressure it began to deform. I could still switch the amber rod with a pen, however eventually the amber rod bent as well. Now its completely nonfunctional.  From a mechanical standpoint in my opinion the design is poor. The amber rod, being much harder then the soft plastic shell broke through its outer gray coating. The amber rod is thin, and the end of it is narrow and sharp. Over time, years and years, I assume more of you will have this issue. No design is perfect, but it seems like a simple fix to just use a slightly more expensive metal toggle. I have receivers from the 70s that work just as well as the day they left the shop, all metal construction. The went out of their way making the housing aluminum instead of plastic, why cheap out on the controls? Of course nothing is built to last forever, but from my experience in the R&D process even if something works thousands of times but fails once, its up to the engineer to figure out what went wrong that single time. I just find it hard to believe that there are not others out there that have had my issue.


----------



## bartus

pinkled said:


> Thank you for your experiences guys.
> 
> I still believe they should use a metal toggle and this is why:
> 
> The toggle is an amber rod surrounded by soft a plastic. I know this because the amber rod was all that was left when the toggle broke. I also had the piece that broke, being the gray plastic. I put this part into pliers and with slight pressure it began to deform. I could still switch the amber rod with a pen, however eventually the amber rod bent as well. Now its completely nonfunctional.  From a mechanical standpoint in my opinion the design is poor. The amber rod, being much harder then the soft plastic shell broke through its outer gray coating. The amber rod is thin, and the end of it is narrow and sharp. Over time, years and years, I assume more of you will have this issue. No design is perfect, but it seems like a simple fix to just use a slightly more expensive metal toggle. I have receivers from the 70s that work just as well as the day they left the shop, all metal construction. The went out of their way making the housing aluminum instead of plastic, why cheap out on the controls? Of course nothing is built to last forever, but from my experience in the R&D process even if something works thousands of times but fails once, its up to the engineer to figure out what went wrong that single time. I just find it hard to believe that there are not others out there that have had my issue.


 
  

 I suppose you mean an amber colored rod?!? Besides I suppose that it is not a question of saving money to use these switches, otherwise they would have used this type of switch for  on/off as well. Other brands like Ray Samuels Audio use similar switches for products in higher price ranges.


----------



## PinkLed

bartus said:


> I suppose you mean an amber colored rod?!? Besides I suppose that it is not a question of saving money to use these switches, otherwise they would have used this type of switch for  on/off as well. Other brands like Ray Samuels Audio use similar switches for products in higher price ranges.


 
  
  
 I believe the rod is made of amber. Its hard to see from the image but it is indeed translucent. Mixing materials of different harnesses is something that can cause issue.


----------



## jseaber

pinkled said:


> I believe the rod is made of amber. Its hard to see from the image but it is indeed translucent. Mixing materials of different harnesses is something that can cause issue.


 
  
 The switch is a premium brand used by many manufacturers: NKK p/n G23AV
  
 You can find composition data here:
 http://www.nkkswitches.com/pdf/Gtoggles.pdf
  
 Its actuator is composed of "Glass fiber reinforced polyamide"


----------



## bartus

pinkled said:


> I believe the rod is made of amber. Its hard to see from the image but it is indeed translucent. Mixing materials of different harnesses is something that can cause issue.


 

 I didn't want to sound to direct or harsh at the beginning (as we Dutch people can be) but now I'm interested what do you think as an electro-mechanical engineer that amber is? Cause I can't think of any structural application in industrial design were amber could be applied other than for pure esthetic value.


----------



## PinkLed

bartus said:


> I didn't want to sound to direct or harsh at the beginning (as we Dutch people can be) but now I'm interested what do you think as an electro-mechanical engineer that amber is? Cause I can't think of any structural application in industrial design were amber could be applied other than for pure esthetic value.


 
 Semantics, and irrelevant to the issue. Mixing materials of different harnesses in a manner where friction is a factor is, well to be blunt, amateur. Amber has a harness similar to nylon. The rubber coating over the "Glass fiber reinforced polyamide" hardness much less. Plain and simple. 
  
 FYI, I design transformer substations not micro switches. If a customer complains about a control component, I scrap it and get a better one. 
  


bartus said:


> I suppose you mean an amber colored rod?!? Besides I suppose that it is not a question of saving money to use these switches, *otherwise they would have used this type of switch for  on/off as well.* Other brands like Ray Samuels Audio use similar switches for products in higher price ranges.


 
 They would still be saving money. This ones basic math. Switch A costs 5$ switch B costs 10$. X= B+B = 20$, Y = B+A = 15$. X > Y.
  
 In order to change the switch they would most likely have to redesign the PCB in order to fit the larger metal IO switch into further revisions, but I think its worth it. 
  
 My other gripe, one day I was using my C5 and there was a rattling inside. I opened it up and out fell a 1/4" x 1/4" x 1/8" thk. piece of plastic. It was a part associated with the PCB mounting.
  
 I have bought plenty of "premium products" and many of them have failed. Just because everyone uses it and it has become an industry standard does not mean better options do not exist. 
  
 Additionally the aluminum end plates are inconsistent on both sides of my C5. One of them overhangs, the entire plate is offset. The other side is fine. 
  
 Also, almost all of the labels (such as IO, + -) are faded, some of them totally gone. 
  
 I was not going to rip the product like this but I felt no other choice now that my legitimacy is being questioned. These issues are much more relevant then knowing the difference between tree resin and synthetic tree resin, in my humble opinion. 
  
 The saying "they don't build them like they use to" is a bit of an understatement on this one.


----------



## jseaber

pinkled said:


> Semantics, and irrelevant to the issue. Mixing materials of different harnesses in a manner where friction is a factor is, well to be blunt, amateur. Amber has a harness similar to nylon. The rubber coating over the "Glass fiber reinforced polyamide" hardness much less. Plain and simple.
> 
> FYI, I design transformer substations not micro switches. If a customer complains about a control component, I scrap it and get a better one.
> 
> They would still be saving money. This ones basic math. Switch A costs 5$ switch B costs 10$. X= B+B = 20$, Y = B+A = 15$. X > Y.


 
  
  
 Single part cost of an NKK G23AV: $7.70/ea
 Single part cost of the rear, metal power switch: $2.90/ea
  
 We continue to use the relatively expensive NKK brand because they're appreciated. We've evaluated a long list of alternative switches; cost is not part of the decision process. We maintain records of all customer issues, and your broken toggle is an isolated event covered by our 2-year warranty. Unless unreported, no other C5 or C5D switches have been damaged. That said, I've worked as an electrical engineer in high reliability industrial environments and understand your concern. The NKK switches meet long-term reliability expectations and outlast the product warranty (NKK G22AV was used in our c421 amp). If there's demand for a Toughbook style amp/DAC, we'll build one. Or have a look at Objective2.
  
*Machining*: Our machinists inspect each batch of endplates as soon as they're removed from our Haas CNC for a post-machining cleanse. As a secondary measure of protection, we use custom trays in the engraving process which physically cannot accept misshaped parts. And to ensure maximum quality, we've recently required our head of production to inspect each batch of machined parts again after engraving. Bad parts are rejected at each inspection point and are sent to a recycling bin. Only acceptable parts make it to our assembly department.
  
*Engraving*: Regardless of the application method, we've found that silkscreen and engraving processes onto silver endplates can wear off after significant physical contact (usually measured in years). Laser engraving onto black anodized aluminum is far more robust since it physically alters the oxide layer and cannot be removed. If customers were unhappy, we'd discontinue silver endplates. If you have any concern about long-term artwork wear, black is a better choice.
  
  
 @PinkLed: I'm sorry C5 has mechanically disappointed you. All products should match the photos at JDSLabs.com, and outlast their 2-year warranty. We'll be glad to refund the amp or replace the entire unit. Let us know what you prefer.


----------



## PinkLed

@jseaber, Thank you for your responses and involvement with the hi-fi community. Don't misunderstand me, I think the product is by and large great, and I will be looking to take full advantage of the warranty. I strongly believe in giving the manufacture another chance, because believe me I've had plenty of instances where I was on the receiving end of complaints.


----------



## gikigill

Just wanted to let you know that it makes me really happy that my JDS O2 comes from the same manufacturing environment. That's a machine shop to be proud of.


----------



## r010159

I have my C5D hooked into my iPad with a Lightening connector. But I have to toggle the C5D on and off several times before the iPad recognizes the C5D. Does anyone else have this problem? Is this a problem with the iPad, or the DAC on the C5D not initializing properly? Maybe both?


----------



## luisdent

r010159 said:


> I have my C5D hooked into my iPad with a Lightening connector. But I have to toggle the C5D on and off several times before the iPad recognizes the C5D. Does anyone else have this problem? Is this a problem with the iPad, or the DAC on the C5D not initializing properly? Maybe both?



I didn't have that issue. Are you in an app when you connect it of anything? Just an idea, maybe something is affecting the ipad audio control? Have you fully shut down your ipod lately? Maybe a reboot will clear up any issues?


----------



## r010159

luisdent said:


> I didn't have that issue. Are you in an app when you connect it of anything? Just an idea, maybe something is affecting the ipad audio control? Have you fully shut down your ipod lately? Maybe a reboot will clear up any issues?




This happens both in the iPad music app and the remote J River app. I have tried rebooting only once which did not fix the problem. I can retry the reboot next time I encounter this problem.


----------



## luisdent

r010159 said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't have that issue. Are you in an app when you connect it of anything? Just an idea, maybe something is affecting the ipad audio control? Have you fully shut down your ipod lately? Maybe a reboot will clear up any issues?
> ...


This may not be related at all, but i know you need to have all audio stopped when turning on the c5. I wonder if something similar is happening with the digital connection with the c5d? Even if nothing is playing, maybe something is happening on the ipad at the time?

I would close all apps open the one you want and test it a bunch of times. If it happens, maybe try waiting a few seconds after pausing any audio and try it again. Essentially try and see if you can figure out a way to consistently reproduce the issue. Then maybe that would indicate what the cause is to us or john?


----------



## r010159

luisdent said:


> This may not be related at all, but i know you need to have all audio stopped when turning on the c5. I wonder if something similar is happening with the digital connection with the c5d? Even if nothing is playing, maybe something is happening on the ipad at the time?
> 
> I would close all apps open the one you want and test it a bunch of times. If it happens, maybe try waiting a few seconds after pausing any audio and try it again. Essentially try and see if you can figure out a way to consistently reproduce the issue. Then maybe that would indicate what the cause is to us or john?


 
  
 The problem has been happening all the time since my purchase of the device. Sometimes a cable unplug and replug does the trick. Sometimes going out and then into the app helps. Sometimes toggling the C5D off and on can work too. But I have never been able to reliably have it work, where the music would come through the C5D to the headphones instead of the speaker on the iPad.
  
 EDIT: This is not a problem with the ODAC/O2, even though it is a bit idiosyncratic. Sometimes the iPad does not provide power to the USB hub I am testing with. But when iPad supplies power, which is almost all the time, I can plug it into the ODAC part and in a few moments it works reliably. I am using the same USB cable in both cases.


----------



## luisdent

r010159 said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > This may not be related at all, but i know you need to have all audio stopped when turning on the c5. I wonder if something similar is happening with the digital connection with the c5d? Even if nothing is playing, maybe something is happening on the ipad at the time?
> ...



So are you just connecting the ipad to the c5d with a cck and usb cable right? You're not using a hub somehow between them are you? That could definitely be a possible problem. Matbe i read that wrong though?


----------



## r010159

luisdent said:


> So are you just connecting the ipad to the c5d with a cck and usb cable right? You're not using a hub somehow between them are you? That could definitely be a possible problem. Matbe i read that wrong though?


 
  
 I have started trying to use the setup that has worked, which is a CCK direct without the USB hub. Then I tried with the hub which also has worked in the past. Still not working. I try this setup with the ODAC and same USB cable and CCK and it works every time.


----------



## luisdent

r010159 said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > So are you just connecting the ipad to the c5d with a cck and usb cable right? You're not using a hub somehow between them are you? That could definitely be a possible problem. Matbe i read that wrong though?
> ...


 
  
 I'm guessing the hub is the problem. It could be changing the data or power somehow? I'm not sure, I'm not an expert on usb electronic functionality, but I am a server administrator/computer technician. I've seen many times where a usb hub doesn't provide sufficient power for something and therefore doesn't work with that device. I've also seen issues where noise on the signal causes data errors or something similar because the hub didn't keep the signal clean or something of the sort. Again, not exactly sure on the technical details, but needless to say, some devices don't work with usb hubs or at least "certain" usb hubs.
  
 Maybe john can chime in? I assume a hub of decent quality and specifications would work o.k., but I'm not sure. It sounds like that might be your issue though?


----------



## jseaber

luisdent said:


> I'm guessing the hub is the problem. It could be changing the data or power somehow? I'm not sure, I'm not an expert on usb electronic functionality, but I am a server administrator/computer technician. I've seen many times where a usb hub doesn't provide sufficient power for something and therefore doesn't work with that device. I've also seen issues where noise on the signal causes data errors or something similar because the hub didn't keep the signal clean or something of the sort. Again, not exactly sure on the technical details, but needless to say, some devices don't work with usb hubs or at least "certain" usb hubs.
> 
> Maybe john can chime in? I assume a hub of decent quality and specifications would work o.k., but I'm not sure. It sounds like that might be your issue though?


 
  
 This suggests a bizarre mechanical problem with the iPad or cables (i.e., not a C5D issue, despite the ODAC report). Do you have another iPad or iPhone you can try?
  
 Digital audio output from an iDevice works identically to OS X, Windows, etc: The operating system detects the USB device and begins transmitting digital audio data. To C5D, there's no difference whether the audio source is a phone, tablet, or computer. It's either receiving data or it is not. Thus, when C5D works perfectly on a computer, it should also work perfectly on a supported tablet or phone. More info here: http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=838
  
 Two or three users since C5D's release have reported unexpected results. In all three cases, it was caused by a damaged Lightning jack on the iPad or iPhone (cable made power contact, but not digital contact). In each case, C5D of course tested normally at JDS Labs and not for the customer.
  
 @r010159: You're welcome to send your C5D in again. We'll re-test for normal behavior under Win7, OS X, iPhone 4S, iPhone 5S, and latest gen iPad. Please note the above first.


----------



## r010159

jseaber said:


> This suggests a bizarre mechanical problem with the iPad or cables (i.e., not a C5D issue, despite the ODAC report). Do you have another iPad or iPhone you can try?
> 
> Digital audio output from an iDevice works identically to OS X, Windows, etc: The operating system detects the USB device and begins transmitting digital audio data. To C5D, there's no difference whether the audio source is a phone, tablet, or computer. It's either receiving data or it is not. Thus, when C5D works perfectly on a computer, it should also work perfectly on a supported tablet or phone. More info here: http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=838
> 
> ...


 
  
 It is not the hub. The hub works with the O2/ODAC. So does the lightening adapter used as part of the chain of cables. The lightening adapter apparently also works without the hub. When I tested with the C5D hooked up to an iPhone through the hub it also did not work. This should eliminate everything but the C5D.  However, when I hooked up the iPhone to the C5D using a 30-pin CCK adapter, it *reliably* worked. So there is a problem with both the hub and the adapter. The hub does work with the Mac computer that I have, so apparently when the hub is powered by an iDevice, it does not work. This should not be a problem since the C5D does not get its power from the USB bus. No wonder this was confusing to me!
  
 It looks like there is a problem with the new Lightening adapter which is an genuine Apple CCK adapter purchased from Amazon.  And it does work from time to time. It worked more often in the past than it has now. This is one of the rare instances of an intermittent problem turning out to be an adapter. So as this epic journey continues, I will order another one from Amazon. But the last purchase was from a third-party on Amazon. Perhaps it would be better if I purchased it locally from an Apple store? I think I will do this next.
  
 EDIT: I came back to this afterwards to find the same problem again. When it does work, all I need to do is turn the C5D off then on and no music again.  By  only toggling the power button I can get it to work. This happens with a different USB cable, and with my iPhone this time which does not use the lightening adapter. But when I unplug the cable a few times, it can start to work.
  
 Does this mean a USB controller not initializing properly when an iDevice is being used?
  
 Bob Graham
  
 [message to jseaber deleted]


----------



## luisdent

r010159 said:


> jseaber said:
> 
> 
> > This suggests a bizarre mechanical problem with the iPad or cables (i.e., not a C5D issue, despite the ODAC report). Do you have another iPad or iPhone you can try?
> ...



Just because the hub works with the odac does not mean it will work with every other device. It may not be the hub, but the fact tgat it works with the odac doesn't prove anything. In fact, if i'm not mistaken you're saying the c5d works when you're not using the hub. That more likely rules out the c5d as a problem if that were the case.

Not to be a pain, but could you clearly list all of the exact setups in which it doesn't work as well as the setups in which it does work? Maybe we can figure it out? Maybe it is the adapter, but i'd like to go over all the situations if it isn't too much bother...

John might have other clues as well, but he seems to also think it isn't the c5d. However he would test it for you if you want to be sure. But i'm guessing it's the hub or adapter personally..


----------



## r010159

luisdent said:


> Just because the hub works with the odac does not mean it will work with every other device. It may not be the hub, but the fact tgat it works with the odac doesn't prove anything. In fact, if i'm not mistaken you're saying the c5d works when you're not using the hub. That more likely rules out the c5d as a problem if that were the case.
> 
> Not to be a pain, but could you clearly list all of the exact setups in which it doesn't work as well as the setups in which it does work? Maybe we can figure it out? Maybe it is the adapter, but i'd like to go over all the situations if it isn't too much bother...
> 
> John might have other clues as well, but he seems to also think it isn't the c5d. However he would test it for you if you want to be sure. But i'm guessing it's the hub or adapter personally..


 
  
 I had this same problem well before I used this hub. But I will not use the hub this time.  In order to simplify this, I am using my iPhone 4S with its  30-pin CCK through the USB cable I have been using with the ODAC for months, out to the C5D instead of the ODAC. I am not using the original USB cable, Lightning CCK, or the iPad. This setup does not work. So all I do is turn the C5D on and off and on and off. Sometimes audio comes through to my headphones, but most of the time it does not and plays from the phone. I have not changed or done a thing during this test other than toggle the power switch. I then substitute the iPhone and its 30-pin CCK with an  iPad and its Lightning CCK . I have the same problem that is intermittently solved in the same way, the toggling of the  power switch several or more times.  I then use the C5D as a DAC/amp for my Mac mini. In this case it works several times in a row. I am listening to it as I write this. The only difference is I am not using *either* CCKs, but I am using the same USB cable. 
  
 Bob Graham


----------



## luisdent

r010159 said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > Just because the hub works with the odac does not mean it will work with every other device. It may not be the hub, but the fact tgat it works with the odac doesn't prove anything. In fact, if i'm not mistaken you're saying the c5d works when you're not using the hub. That more likely rules out the c5d as a problem if that were the case.
> ...


 
  
 So to be clear, it works with the usb cable only to the mac mini and no failures?


----------



## s0ckpupp3t

Any suggestions on a good carry case or pouch? Best I could find so far is a hard carry case for a WD My Passport external hard drive (http://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Hard-Carrying-Passport-Essential/dp/B003LSTD38/ref=pd_cp_e_0) but it's still bigger than I would like.  Pouch or sleeve would also be acceptable.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## r010159

luisdent said:


> So to be clear, it works with the usb cable only to the mac mini and no failures?



 
Yes, it failed only once out of 30 times for some reason. But this may be the fault of the audio player. The player did not recognize the C5D that one time. Sometimes I unplugged the USB cable and plugged it back in. I turned the unit off and on. It still worked. 


 
Bob


----------



## bartus

What you also should check is if your problem applies to all the ports of the hub. A lot of hubs have a poor port layout based on chips that are wired in series. Debian based deveices often have problems with these as well, some of the ports would work some won't. I can imagine that a simmilar issue could happen with ios products. Another question would be at which battery switch position are you trying to use it? Although you are using a (powered) hub the two deveices are still not galvanically separated on the usb power poles.


----------



## r010159

I have stopped using the hub. It just complicated the setup adding one more variable to the picture. As to why this works with the Mac mini but not an iDevice, perhaps the driver on the Mac mini is more robust.


----------



## r010159

John and I have agreed on a plan. He will send my out a unit that is using adaptive mode instead of asynchronous mode USB transfers. This is his idea. It also will be a new unit, so this should eliminate one of the last major variables in the picture. This part appeals to me.

 John sure does back his products, where there is no arguing or pleading or dozens of e-mails later with no results...what a positive experience for me. This is why I purchased both the O2/ODAC and the C5D from his company.


----------



## slackerpo

any comparisons available between the dx90 and the c5d, regarding sound quality??


----------



## Semont

The Koss Porta Pro bag works pretty well.
  
 Quote:


s0ckpupp3t said:


> Any suggestions on a good carry case or pouch? Best I could find so far is a hard carry case for a WD My Passport external hard drive (http://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Hard-Carrying-Passport-Essential/dp/B003LSTD38/ref=pd_cp_e_0) but it's still bigger than I would like.  Pouch or sleeve would also be acceptable.
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## luisdent

Just posted a new short review:


----------



## r010159

Here is an update. It is not the C5D. I was flummoxed, particularly since John set it up in an adaptive USB transfer mode. So I thought "out of the box" and saw both USB cables that I tested with were of the same type, with the cylindrical object on one end. So I purchased another cheap USB cable. This did not work with the iPhone. So I thought I might as well try the iPad with the Lightening connector. Guess what? It worked. I have been testing it trying to see if it will stop working. It seems to be working fine right now. So far it has worked a couple dozen times in a row with me trying to get it not to work.

I then connected the original cable that I was trying to use and it *continued to work.* I do not understand this. I suspect that something may have been wrong with the interface circuitry with the Lightening socket on the iPad. Perhaps the new cable allowed the circuitry to initialize and operate correctly. I do not know. This does not make much sense to me. This has rarely happened to me. But then there is the iPhone that did not work either. I am going to work on this aspect of my problems. But first the iPod Touch.

The "Outer Limits". Spooky. LOL


----------



## luisdent

r010159 said:


> Here is an update. It is not the C5D. I was flummoxed, particularly since John set it up in an adaptive USB transfer mode. So I thought "out of the box" and saw both USB cables that I tested with were of the same type, with the cylindrical object on one end. So I purchased another cheap USB cable. This did not work with the iPhone. So I thought I might as well try the iPad with the Lightening connector. Guess what? It worked. I have been testing it trying to see if it will stop working. It seems to be working fine right now. So far it has worked a couple dozen times in a row with me trying to get it not to work.
> 
> I then connected the original cable that I was trying to use and it *continued to work.* I do not understand this. I suspect that something may have been wrong with the interface circuitry with the Lightening socket on the iPad. Perhaps the new cable allowed the circuitry to initialize and operate correctly. I do not know. This does not make much sense to me. This has rarely happened to me. But then there is the iPhone that did not work either. I am going to work on this aspect of my problems. But first the iPod Touch.
> 
> The "Outer Limits". Spooky. LOL



There is usually a simple cause, but sometimes it gets overlooked...

Btw, those round things on your cables are ferrite cores or beads. They're used to filter out unwanted noise/interference.


----------



## r010159

luisdent said:


> There is usually a simple cause, but sometimes it gets overlooked...
> 
> Btw, those round things on your cables are ferrite cores or beads. They're used to filter out unwanted noise/interference.




Yes, a simple cause, but not so easy to narrow down in this case.


----------



## luisdent

r010159 said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > There is usually a simple cause, but sometimes it gets overlooked...
> ...



Indeed. Does the audio play through your iPad itself even when the c5d is connected to it?


----------



## r010159

luisdent said:


> Indeed. Does the audio play through your iPad itself even when the c5d is connected to it?




Yes, it did up until this point in time. The same with the iPhone still even with the new cable. That is why I am perplexed. The iPad now has been working for two days without a problem. Since I do not know specifically what has caused this problem, other then something to do with the cable and/or the lLightening socket on the iPad, I am still concerned that the problem may happen again. John told me to take my time checking this out.

Welcome to the Twighlight Zone. LOL


----------



## luisdent

r010159 said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed. Does the audio play through your iPad itself even when the c5d is connected to it?
> ...



If i understand correctly, that rules out the c5d as the issue. If you're hearing audio from the iDevices while the c5d is connacted, that means the iDevice hasn't detected anything to switch the output to the cck.

Per john, the c5d simply accepts incoming data if i'm not mistaken. Therefore, if i understand properly, the ipad would never know that the c5d specifically is connected. Rather, it probably detects the cck. This would indicate a problem with the cck or ipad. As your iphone does the same thing, tgat makes me suspect the cck, even if you've tried more than one. Maybe the connections aren't firm enough? Are you ccks apple brand? Do they feel tight? Are they the version with the cable attached or just the small adapter?


----------



## r010159

luisdent said:


> If i understand correctly, that rules out the c5d as the issue. If you're hearing audio from the iDevices while the c5d is connacted, that means the iDevice hasn't detected anything to switch the output to the cck.
> 
> Per john, the c5d simply accepts incoming data if i'm not mistaken. Therefore, if i understand properly, the ipad would never know that the c5d specifically is connected. Rather, it probably detects the cck. This would indicate a problem with the cck or ipad. As your iphone does the same thing, tgat makes me suspect the cck, even if you've tried more than one. Maybe the connections aren't firm enough? Are you ccks apple brand? Do they feel tight? Are they the version with the cable attached or just the small adapter?


 
  
 I tried every combination, hooking up and unhooking different cables and CCKs, and going between the iPad, the iPhone, and the Mac mini. Only with the second C5D could I eliminate the possibility of the original C5D.  
  
 Having* both* CCKs not working? They are both Apple CCKs in Apple boxes. That would be extraordinary, but possible. But then only when I used a *third *new cable did the iPad start working, with the same CCK. Now the original USB cable, still with same the CCK, is now working. Apparently this was the defining moment of the problem.
  
 At this point, I do think it is connection related. How intermittent it has been would point that direction. I do not know if it is actually the CCKs. But still that would be the only reasonable explanation.  I have received a new CCK for the iPad in the mail today thinking that this may help.  
  
 Bob


----------



## luisdent

r010159 said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > If i understand correctly, that rules out the c5d as the issue. If you're hearing audio from the iDevices while the c5d is connacted, that means the iDevice hasn't detected anything to switch the output to the cck.
> ...


So you don't think it's the usb cables?


----------



## r010159

luisdent said:


> So you don't think it's the usb cables?


 
  
 These are two very good quality cables. I think there is a higher probability that it could be the interface (CCKs) than two wires that are terminated at both ends.  But one thing I know, wether it is the cables or CCKs or a combination of the two, there are at least two items that are malfunctioning. And this is happening in an intermittent way. 
  
 What do you think?
  
 PS: By the way, thanks for letting me talk this out with you. At one time, I use to be really good at this stuff. Its frustrating that my mind is not as sharp as it used to be.


----------



## luisdent

r010159 said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > So you don't think it's the usb cables?
> ...


 
  
 No problem. This is what I do all day with servers.  It's a lot easier when I have the problem in front of me to troubleshoot. I don't normally do on message per hour support.  hehe It sounds silly, but I usually like to write all the situations I know have failed down on paper or something and then use process of elimination to rule out the bad components. Like when you get a bluescreen from bad hardware. Sometimes you have to pull out the ram and put in one stick at a time until you find out which module is bad.
  
 Unfortunately, you don't have any diagnostic post check on your ipad cck. 
  
 I would start by using only the apple music app just for consistency if you haven't already. That rules out third party apps. Then use only one cck and one usb cable to the c5d. If you get a failure with that, swap the cck and use it until you get another failure. Then swap the usb cable and use another one until you get another failure. Etc. Etc. Then if things start working, you can assume the last thing you changed was the problem.
  
 It sounds like you're already doing this, but it seems like this calls for some very consistent experimentation. You need to be absolutely sure you are tracking each component you are using. Are your iDevices on the latest OS? With updates?


----------



## r010159

luisdent said:


> No problem. This is what I do all day with servers.  It's a lot easier when I have the problem in front of me to troubleshoot. I don't normally do on message per hour support.  hehe It sounds silly, but I usually like to write all the situations I know have failed down on paper or something and then use process of elimination to rule out the bad components. Like when you get a bluescreen from bad hardware. Sometimes you have to pull out the ram and put in one stick at a time until you find out which module is bad.
> 
> Unfortunately, you don't have any diagnostic post check on your ipad cck.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Reminds me of what I did in a former lifetime. 
  
 I am on the latest version of the audio player, the iPad and iPhone iOS, and the latest version of OS X. I will check for updates to OS X. But it works with the Mac. No problems there. I have been testing with both iTunes and J River MC on versions that have been working for me for a significant period of time. The J River comes with an iPad remote app. I then tested with iTunes to eliminate that network variable, the Internet.
 I did not test all possible scenarios with iTunes. But the testing process involved constantly switching between two cables. Then I purchase a third cable. This is when the iPad part started to work but not the iPhone, both using  the same new cable. Now the iPad is also working with the original USB cables.
  
 What is interesting is that the original cables have a;ways worked with the Mac mini connected to both the ODAAC/O2 and the C5D. This is one reason I discounted the cables earlier in my testing. Now the C5D is working with both J River and iTunes using the same original cables. 
  
 Bob


----------



## luisdent

r010159 said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > No problem. This is what I do all day with servers.  It's a lot easier when I have the problem in front of me to troubleshoot. I don't normally do on message per hour support.  hehe It sounds silly, but I usually like to write all the situations I know have failed down on paper or something and then use process of elimination to rule out the bad components. Like when you get a bluescreen from bad hardware. Sometimes you have to pull out the ram and put in one stick at a time until you find out which module is bad.
> ...


 
  
 That would "seem" to rule out the cables and the c5d. That leave the cck, iDevices and apps. The apps and idevices "seem" unlikely, which makes me think cck. Instead of turning to c5d off and on, have you tried simply unplugging and replugging in the cck until it works or doesn't work?


----------



## r010159

luisdent said:


> That would "seem" to rule out the cables and the c5d. That leave the cck, iDevices and apps. The apps and idevices "seem" unlikely, which makes me think cck. Instead of turning to c5d off and on, have you tried simply unplugging and replugging in the cck until it works or doesn't work?




Yes. I have tried pulling out and reconnecting each part of the cable, the CCKs, besides toggling the unit off and on. Now there was a couple times that I did what you said to do and it worked that way for a few times. I also did the same with ther end of ther USB cable that plugged into the CCK. This worked too, but most of the time it did not reliably solve the problem.

Maybe the mistake I made was assuming that both CCKs were working. I did originally think it may be the cables, But after a few tests with the Mac mini, this did not seem the case.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, the CCK for the iPhone did not come in an Apple box.

Bob


----------



## luisdent

r010159 said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > That would "seem" to rule out the cables and the c5d. That leave the cck, iDevices and apps. The apps and idevices "seem" unlikely, which makes me think cck. Instead of turning to c5d off and on, have you tried simply unplugging and replugging in the cck until it works or doesn't work?
> ...


 
  
 Unless you can make it fail on the mac mini I would think it most likely wasn't the usb cables. That leaves the cck. Who knows, maybe it's not, but I've seen multiple unlikely failures before.   You would need another cck or another person to help you test that though. This might seem odd, but is there anything at all that you can think of that might be interfering with the signal somehow? Fan, large magnet, etc.? Maybe the cck is more prone to that sort of thing?


----------



## r010159

luisdent said:


> Unless you can make it fail on the mac mini I would think it most likely wasn't the usb cables. That leaves the cck. Who knows, maybe it's not, but I've seen multiple unlikely failures before.   You would need another cck or another person to help you test that though. This might seem odd, but is there anything at all that you can think of that might be interfering with the signal somehow? Fan, large magnet, etc.? Maybe the cck is more prone to that sort of thing?




This is the place I ended up with my testing. I assumed the CCKs were OK. This is before I was able to eliminate the C5D from the picture. What is interesting is this appears to be an intermittent problem with *both* CCKs. This is what confused me. As far as what can interfere with the signal, for one thing, the CCK for the iPhone does not fit firmly into the phone. When I insert it into the phone there is some static. This does not happen with the iPad. The connection and the result are immediate. I have no fans, large magnets, and other things like cord wrapped around an UPS. The connections of the USB cables to the C5D are not very firm but it will do.


----------



## luisdent

r010159 said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > Unless you can make it fail on the mac mini I would think it most likely wasn't the usb cables. That leaves the cck. Who knows, maybe it's not, but I've seen multiple unlikely failures before.   You would need another cck or another person to help you test that though. This might seem odd, but is there anything at all that you can think of that might be interfering with the signal somehow? Fan, large magnet, etc.? Maybe the cck is more prone to that sort of thing?
> ...



That's a lot of not so firm connections.  all my connections are fairly tight...


----------



## r010159

luisdent said:


> That's a lot of not so firm connections.  all my connections are fairly tight...




It looks like the iPad is the problem. The iPad started playing out its speaker again while I was listening to the music. I toggled the C5D, I rebooted the iPad, and I used the new CCK for the iPad. Still not working. I even tried that new USB cable that I recently purchased. Still not working. I even switched the C5Ds and still no dice. I even used iTunes instead of my JRemote by J River remote music app, and it still does not work.

This leaves the iPad. If this does not work out for me, is there anyone interested in a spare C5D? At a good price? I now have a classified here putting it up for sale. Just a thought.

Bob


----------



## tracyca

I use my C5D with my iPad mini retina and it works fine with cck, I haven't had any problems with my unit. I can say the C5D is great combo for on the go! Or mini bedside rig.


----------



## r010159

tracyca said:


> I use my C5D with my iPad mini retina and it works fine with cck, I haven't had any problems with my unit. I can say the C5D is great combo for on the go! Or mini bedside rig.




I am thinking of purchasing an iPod Touch. I am right now testing it with my mother's iPod Touch. No problems so far. I wonder if Apple will fix it for me? That is assuming I still have the warrantee.


----------



## luisdent

tracyca said:


> I use my C5D with my iPad mini retina and it works fine with cck, I haven't had any problems with my unit. I can say the C5D is great combo for on the go! Or mini bedside rig.


 
  
 Me too. Which ipad was causing the problem? Mini, retina mini, standard, 2, air? lmao. Too many versions, sheesh.


----------



## r010159

luisdent said:


> Me too. Which ipad was causing the problem? Mini, retina mini, standard, 2, air? lmao. Too many versions, sheesh.


 
  
 Its the 4th version of the iPad, the first one with the Lightening connector.  Because of all of your help, including John at JDS Labs, I have been able to narrow it down to the Lightening jack on the iPad 4. I originally thought it may be the C5D, then I thought it was the CCKs (I still do with the iPhone), and now I have finally found the problem to be with the iPad. What an adventure!
  
 Bob


----------



## luisdent

r010159 said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > Me too. Which ipad was causing the problem? Mini, retina mini, standard, 2, air? lmao. Too many versions, sheesh.
> ...


 
  
 Blargh. That stinks.


----------



## chengsta

Hey guys, I've owned the c5 for just a little under a year.  And I have sad news.  My jds c5 is running out of juice.  It's been happening for the last week now, it only lasts 3-4 hours on a full charge.  But today, it wasn't even 2 hours and it started blinking.  20 minutes later, it died.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   I had to spend the rest of the day at work with just the X5.  It wasn't bad...it was great actually for my rock/orchestral/folk music.  However, it sorely does not have the bass power for my techno/trance/dance tracks.
  
 I don't want to buy a new c5, although the c5d is tempting.  I know it still works, but just needs a new battery.  Anyone ever tried to replace the battery on these things?
  
 Also I'm only using IEMs, the jh16pro.  It shouldn't drain the battery like nobodys business.


----------



## jseaber

@chengsta : The battery should last longer than a year. We've been using the same charging circuit and CS-IPOD4HL batteries since 2011 or so (different amps). Email or PM your order number and we'll ship a replacement battery; it's an easy swap.


----------



## chengsta

jseaber said:


> @chengsta : The battery should last longer than a year. We've been using the same charging circuit and CS-IPOD4HL batteries since 2011 or so (different amps). Email or PM your order number and we'll ship a replacement battery; it's an easy swap.


 

 Well, it's been a year since and I've lost the order number.  I DO however, have the paypal transaction ID if that would work.  I also heard that paypal for some odd reason gives 2 different transaction numbers for the buyer and seller so they won't have the same one, that's rather odd.  Anyway, I can also provide the email, name, and address which I used to purchase, and on what date if that would help (Hopefully there is a database or something you guys keep track of). 
  
 if nothing else Ill just buy the battery.
  
 Edit:  Thanks JDS labs, you guys rock!  When I get some free cash I just might get the C5D for I heard the bass is slightly better, and that as a DAC it is better than the x5 which is no small feat.


----------



## certifiedny

Anyone use the c5 with jvc fx850


----------



## Gabriel12

Hi! I just bought a new c5 amp and Im wondering what is the difference between the first generation and the newer ones?


----------



## MistahBungle

Lower output impedance (0.62Ω Vs 2.2Ω previously), 3-way bass boost; off/medium/high (as opposed to on/off in previous version).


----------



## Gabriel12

mistahbungle said:


> Lower output impedance (0.62Ω Vs 2.2Ω previously), 3-way bass boost; off/medium/high (as opposed to on/off in previous version).



Thanks.


----------



## bana

Will I improve my sound by adding a C5D to my Ipod classic 7th. gen 90% loaded with lossless files?


----------



## imackler

bana said:


> Will I improve my sound by adding a C5D to my Ipod classic 7th. gen 90% loaded with lossless files?


 
 The classic doesn't work with the dac on the C5D, so you'd only be getting the amp function. You'd save money getting just the amp, unless you can use the dac with your laptop, iphone, etc.


----------



## bana

bummer!! Am I the only one with a large collection?


----------



## luisdent

bana said:


> bummer!! Am I the only one with a large collection?



600gb. I own all of my music too. No illegal downloads. :-o

Even at 256aac i can't fit everything on any portable device. Currently i have a 72gb fuze and a 64gb ipod touch. I use both; what a pain. My classic died and i gave up on hd based players. I'm waiting for the 128gb micro sd to drop in price...

I'm considering getting another zip clip and using two zip clips with 136gb each for a total of roughly 272gb. They're so small and sound awesome...


----------



## imackler

luisdent said:


> I'm considering getting another zip clip and using two zip clips with 136gb each for a total of roughly 272gb. They're so small and sound awesome...


 
  
 This is a cool idea, when the 128gb drops. The clip doesn't struggle with a 128? Does it need to be reformatted?


----------



## ThurstonX

luisdent said:


> 600gb. I own all of my music too. No illegal downloads. :-o
> 
> Even at 256aac i can't fit everything on any portable device. Currently i have a 72gb fuze and a 64gb ipod touch. I use both; what a pain. My classic died and i gave up on hd based players. I'm waiting for the 128gb micro sd to drop in price...
> 
> I'm considering getting another zip clip and using two zip clips with 136gb each for a total of roughly 272gb. They're so small and sound awesome...


 
  
 Looking at the Clip Zip on Sansa's site, it states "you can expand its memory by up to 32GB with a SanDisk microSD or microSDHC card."  I haven't researched it beyond that.  Do 128 GB microSDHC cards really work with the Clip Zip?  Anything special that needs to be done to make it work?  While I hope my 160 GB iPod Classic has years left on it (I baby it, and it doesn't get tons of use), one never knows with HDD-based DAPs.
  
 Guessing you're running Rockbox.  People on their forum have had success with 64 GB microSD cards with the Clip+ and Clip Zip.

 TIA, and sorry for OT, unless there's a way to get digital out to the C5D


----------



## luisdent

thurstonx said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > 600gb. I own all of my music too. No illegal downloads. :-o
> ...


 
  
 You need to install rockbox to replace the sansa firmware, which I find is better anyway. With no eq or anything the sound is identical, except rockbox actually claims to have fixed a slow audio glitch. Anyhow, the rockbox firmware supports 128gb+ theoretically. People have reported success using them. I'm using a 64gb and I've never had any problems with it recognizing the data on the card.
  
 You just need to format it to the correct file system. I messaged one of the developers and they said the 128gb should work fine. I'm going to try it when they aren't $180


----------



## ThurstonX

luisdent said:


> You need to install rockbox to replace the sansa firmware, which I find is better anyway. With no eq or anything the sound is identical, except rockbox actually claims to have fixed a slow audio glitch. Anyhow, the rockbox firmware supports 128gb+ theoretically. People have reported success using them. I'm using a 64gb and I've never had any problems with it recognizing the data on the card.
> 
> You just need to format it to the correct file system. I messaged one of the developers and they said the 128gb should work fine. I'm going to try it when they aren't $180


 
  
 Yeah, being able to run Rockbox is the first priority for any prospective DAP.
  
*Amazon has the 128GB SanDisk for $120 right now*.  BUT the 64GB is $38 and change.  Bugger that.  SanDisk needs some competition for the price to get to a reasonable level.  That, or it's covered by ObamaCare 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Even without digital out, I'd still use my C5 with it.


----------



## bana

Anyone ever bought the 240G Ipod classic from mapplesyrup.web.com.


----------



## ThurstonX

bana said:


> Anyone ever bought the 240G Ipod classic from mapplesyrup.web.com.


 
  
 Pretty sure it was mentioned in this thread:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/532426/ipod-classic-rockbox-its-happening


----------



## luisdent

thurstonx said:


> luisdent said:
> 
> 
> > You need to install rockbox to replace the sansa firmware, which I find is better anyway. With no eq or anything the sound is identical, except rockbox actually claims to have fixed a slow audio glitch. Anyhow, the rockbox firmware supports 128gb+ theoretically. People have reported success using them. I'm using a 64gb and I've never had any problems with it recognizing the data on the card.
> ...


 
  
 Wow. It was $180 last I checked. I might have to get that. I'm not sure. I could at least use my zip clip with 136gb of storage and my fuze with 68gb of storage together for a total of 204gb or so. Not too shabby. And they're both so small, it's less space in my pocket than a classic... I'm liking this idea...


----------



## miceblue

bana said:


> bummer!! Am I the only one with a large collection?



I have around 300 GB of music, but I only actively listen to about 30% of that. XD

I do wish I had more space than what my iPod 5G has though, which is the 30 GB version.


----------



## ostewart

Fiio X5 has dual microSD slot.
That's 256gb, not bad really when the cards come down in price


----------



## miceblue

ostewart said:


> Fiio X5 has dual microSD slot.
> That's 256gb, not bad really when the cards come down in price



I reviewed a touring X5 unit and I didn't really like it too much by itself.

The C5D made it sound better with the line out connection, but I don't want to carry around:
a large brick (X5) + an iPhone 4S-sized box (C5D) + a 3.5 mm cable that sticks out like a sore thumb (FiiO L2) + headphone cable in my pocket


The dual microSD cards are a nice thing to have though.


----------



## ostewart

Yeah it's not the smallest of rigs but probably sounds great. I've only demoed the X5 very briefly.


----------



## ThurstonX

ostewart said:


> Fiio X5 has dual microSD slot.
> That's 256gb, not bad really when the cards come down in price


 
  
 Sansa Clip Zip is $50 (8 GB; under $40 for the 4 GB) on amazon.com.  X5 is $350.  I know, I know, not exactly a fair comparison.  Just sayin'.


----------



## luisdent

thurstonx said:


> ostewart said:
> 
> 
> > Fiio X5 has dual microSD slot.
> ...



136gb zip clip would be $170 right now. That's twice the size of the biggest ipod touch and less than half the price.


----------



## tracyca

I have been so in love with my cyper labs stack that I have neglected my C5D, I am having a early morning listening session and I'm loving the C5D! It is such a versatile dac/amp for us IEM lovers to have. Bass boost with such a black back ground simply lovely for such a low price! Jds Labs really hit the target on the head, I can't wait to see what they have cooking for there next release.


----------



## pixelcity

Oh man - wrote more than I expected:
  
 I have a nagging question for all you C5D owners who have connected your C5D between your computer and a power amp (or other grounded audio device; not headphones):
*Do you experience ground loop interference? *
 (by the way, I had JDS Labs convert my C5D's mini jack analogue input to a line level output from the DAC section of the C5D).
  
 Unfortunately, I experience very annoying ground loop noise between my computer and power amp when connecting either the C5D's line out or HP out to my power amp. Just as much interference as when I send audio from my computer's headphone output to the power amp. Normally, this would not surprise me because USB power is notoriously noisy, and there is always a potential for ground loop between a computer's USB ground and a power amp.
  
 But, the C5D is supposed to be galvanically isolated via an ADuM3160 chip (drawing below; isolation on all USB pins). In other words, there should be no (or drastically reduced) ground loop because the ADuM3160 physically disconnects all pins (power, ground, & data) from the computer's USB out and the C5D's input to the DAC. In fact, I notice the same ADuM#### family of USB isolation chips is used in many of the USB isolation devices marketed as ground noise killers, and sensitive USB device protectors.
  
 I have spent the past few days researching different methods of of fixing my ground loop interference between my computer and power amp (C5D in between).

Quick note: I understand there are preventative measures to avoid ground loops; I am grounding to the same outlet, correct polarity, interconnect cables have adequate ground conductivity. My ground loop is parasitic between my computer and power amp.
 I am only interested in implementing physically separate grounds between my USB interface & power amp. The 3 most credible methods of isolating my grounds I've found are

supplying clean 5v dc power to the C5D, e.g. via regulated linear transformer powered USB hub;
using a USB isolator - ironically most using the same ADuM family of chips as in the C5D;
using a line level audio transformer between my C5D and power amp.
  
 All 3 methods separate the ground between my computer, C5D, or power amp, in order to eliminate ground loop interference. Each has its pros and cons (I would probably choose a quality audio input transformer because I have a few different unrelated ground isolation uses for it). The only thing I can't wrap my head around is *the C5D (should) already have galvanic isolation *between the USB input and rest of the device. Which makes me pause before I spend additional dollars on similar devices. I expected the galvanic isolation of my C5D to at least attenuate ground noise compared to connecting the headphone out of my computer to the power amp, but the noise is just as bad either way.
 Other sanity checks:

Above ground loop noise is present both when C5D is in charge or battery mode
Nexus 5 > C5D > power amp: absolutely no noise (as expected; only 1 ground via power amp)
Plugged in laptop > C5D > power amp: absolutely no noise
Computer > C5D > headphones: absolutely no noise (as expected; only 1 ground via computer)
Computer TOSLINK > receiver: absolutely no noise (TOSLINK = galvanic isolation / ground isolation; physically separate grounds)
Computer TOSLINK > receiver > power amp: _small _amount of noise (slight ground interference between receiver & power amp)
  
 Based on my sanity checks above, I can only conclude my C5D is not at all galvanically isolated. It seems to be merrily sharing ground between my computer and power amp. I lent my multimeter out a couple weeks back thinking I wouldn't need it any time soon (D'oh!). I will check for continuity between input & output grounds on C5D when I get it back. *Can someone please help by reporting their experience with ground loop interference (or lack of) specifically when connecting their computer > C5D > grounded audio device* (power amp, powered monitors, receiver, etc)?
  
 Thanks all!!
  
_Note: aside from the above, I LOVE the C5D. If it never claimed to have galvanic isolation via the ADuM3160, I would have no confusion as to why I am hearing buzzing and interference. But since it does claim so, I am a little perplexed. Am I misunderstanding the fundamental implications of C5D's galvanic isolation? I think not?_
  
 Drawing of the ADuM3160:


----------



## jseaber

@pixelcity: I believe we exchanged messages recently. Vbus and data pins at side 1 are isolated from side 2 by the ADuM3160. You can prove this by operating C5D in battery mode; C5D will forcefully shut down once its battery is drained.
  
 The DAC's 5V/3.3V/1.8V supplies are derived from higher voltage on side 2, meaning the DAC is self-powered when the USB 5V rail is absent (Vbus1). Battery charging resides on side 1 and is disabled when C5D is set to battery mode. In charge mode, 5V power from Vbus1 has an indirect pathway through the charging circuit such that side 2 and side 1 are not isolated. GND1 is common to GND2 to avoid ground loop noise within the amp/DAC while in charge mode. Thus, galvanic isolation is true for 5V, D+, and D- pins. There is no isolation of the USB GND pin.
  


> _Note: aside from the above, I LOVE the C5D. If it never claimed to have galvanic isolation via the ADuM3160, I would have no confusion as to why I am hearing buzzing and interference. But since it does claim so, I am a little perplexed. Am I misunderstanding the fundamental implications of C5D's galvanic isolation? I think not?_


 

  
 Sorry, this is a description oversight on our part and will be clarified at jdslabs.com. Let me know if there's anything we can do to help. Depending on the nature of your system's ground loop noise, an external USB isolator may help with the power amp.
  
*Summary*: Since all pins excluding GND2 are isolated by the ADuM3160, the DAC is isolated so long as headphones are connected as the output device. Ground loop noise is possible when an external power amp is used, due to multiple grounds.


----------



## pixelcity

Crapola - tablet died while responding. Hate when that happens...
 Edit: Assuming I should read your final summary statement as applying to both charge and battery modes, right? I get the same interference either way. (Oops should have hit refresh. You confirmed below)
  
 jseaber, thanks for your excellent reply. I did contact you separately, and your response was in no way lacking. The headfi community is an invaluable well of information; I had some time to do some additional testing with my setup and wanted to gather some data points, if you will, from the community.
  
 Regardless, you have cleared up the issue entirely for me in your post above. I never considered charging was necessarily on side 1, and consequently needed GND1 shared with GND2. I should mention that I would have purchased the C5D either way because it's totally awesome at it's intended use as a mobile DAC & HP amp.
  
 The only question remaining (for me) is: would JDS Labs consider isolating grounds on the next do-it-all portable dac/amp? It would be the swiss army knife of dac/amps.
 I assume charging is on side 1 for a good reason. There's probably a catch 22 scenario between clean power, isolated grounds, and which side of the ADuM* you're on. Furthermore, this is a non issue for HP users. So perhaps it's a tall order. But, it would be a killer tool for both headphones and hifi systems; would make lots of computer-fi guys like me (with power amps / powered monitors) happy.
  
 Bottom line: you guys are great, & pretty please with sugar on top.


----------



## jseaber

@pixelcity: We're constantly listening to community feedback and plan future products accordingly. Ground isolation was avoided in C5D since it raises production cost and brings no benefit to headphone use. I agree, it would be a handy addition for a DAC equipped with line-output. Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## pixelcity

Hi jseaber, what is the current requirement of C5D? The hifimediy ADuM4160 based usb isolator is pretty cheap, and supplies up to 200mA to the isolated device.


----------



## jseaber

pixelcity said:


> Hi jseaber, what is the current requirement of C5D? The hifimediy ADuM4160 based usb isolator is pretty cheap, and supplies up to 200mA to the isolated device.


 
  
 For isolation, you'll need to run from battery power (BAT mode), which means 0 mA current consumption. You'll need 500mA to run in CHG mode.


----------



## cel4145

I just got the AKG K612s, and I feel like my C&C BH is a little challenged in driving them. Basically, I have to run it high gain, full volume. Anyone have experience with the C5 with AKG 60x/70x series and the C&C BH?


----------



## miceblue

cel4145 said:


> I just got the AKG K612s, and I feel like my C&C BH is a little challenged in driving them. Basically, I have to run it high gain, full volume. Anyone have experience with the C5 with AKG 60x/70x series and the C&C BH?



I use the C5/C5D with my K 701 and they give it plenty of volume. I usually use high gain volume level 2 or 3 with the K 701.


----------



## FiJAAS

Hey guys I'm thinking about purchasing the JDS Labs C5D and pair it with the iPod Classic 7th Generation with Beyerdynamic DT-770 250 OHM. What do you guys think I this setup? Will it work?


----------



## ostewart

It will work just fine, they C5D is quite powerful and will drive those beyers with ease


----------



## FiJAAS

ostewart said:


> It will work just fine, they C5D is quite powerful and will drive those beyers with ease




Will the C5D be able to bypass the iPod Classic DAC?


----------



## ostewart

Nope, just an amp like that. using the Line-out still sounds great from the classic though, not a huge difference if a DAC is used compared to the internal DAC of the classic.


----------



## FiJAAS

ostewart said:


> Nope, just an amp like that. using the Line-out still sounds great from the classic though, not a huge difference if a DAC is used compared to the internal DAC of the classic.




Oh wow, alright thanks.


----------



## luisdent

fijaas said:


> ostewart said:
> 
> 
> > Nope, just an amp like that. using the Line-out still sounds great from the classic though, not a huge difference if a DAC is used compared to the internal DAC of the classic.
> ...


 
  
 Classic dac is excellent, as is the amp, although the c5d gives much more power.


----------



## Semont

I find that the DAC actually plays a role in affecting the quality of the bass switches on the C5D. The increased bass seems to be tighter when the DAC is used.


----------



## FiJAAS

Hey guys I have another question,
What type of protection do you use to protect the C5 from getting scratched or dent?


----------



## luisdent

fijaas said:


> Hey guys I have another question,
> What type of protection do you use to protect the C5 from getting scratched or dent?


 
  
 I slip it in a pocket in my bag that fits it perfectly, but the best thing for me is putting the rubber sticky bumpers on all four corners of the device on BOTH sides (8 bumpers). This way it doesn't touch the surface it is laying on, and any device you set on it won't touch it either, assuming you space the bumpers according to your device size.

 Otherwise, you can sew a very simply slip case like the ones that come with small ipods. I make one for all of my mp3 players. Like a sock or sleeve type case, but I use fleece on the inside to protect screens and whatnot. You could easily make a c5d slip case...


----------



## FiJAAS

Hey guys I have another question?
Which Pelican Micro case would fit the JDS Labs Stan's Alone DAC, C5 and iPod Classic stacked on top of each other?


----------



## ostewart

Why the stand alone + C5? And not the C5D alone?


----------



## FiJAAS

I could go with just the C5D and iPod Classic instead. So which Pelican case would fit both of those items stacked?


----------



## ostewart

Yep then you can use the DAC with your computer and just amp with your iPod.


----------



## FiJAAS

ostewart said:


> X3 > C5D




How do you like this setup? Is it working well?


----------



## ostewart

Love it. Better than the headphone out of the X3. Less warmth and more detail.


----------



## FiJAAS

ostewart said:


> Love it. Better than the headphone out of the X3. Less warmth and more detail.




Are you still using the same setup?

How do you like the X3 compared to the X5?


----------



## ostewart

Yeah I still use it. I also use the X3 + DDS HA-01 sometimes.

Not really used the X5.

C5D is excellent. If you are only using it with the X3 you only need the C5.


----------



## pack21

From what I read here C5D version is beneficial to the sound of the iphone by C5D DAC.  My Galaxy S4 also benefits from DAC C5D? Or in this case  only take advantage of the C5 amp?


----------



## ostewart

Both those can take advantage of the DAC so it would be good to get the C5D. For iPod classic you only need C5


----------



## FiJAAS

ostewart said:


> Yeah I still use it. I also use the X3 + DDS HA-01 sometimes.
> 
> Not really used the X5.
> 
> C5D is excellent. If you are only using it with the X3 you only need the C5.




Have you compared the X3 to the iPod Classic 7th Gen? If so which one sounded better to you with and with out the C5 amp?


----------



## ostewart

Well not a huge difference with C5D. Maybe a slight bit more clarity from X3. But I prefer the headphone out of the iPod, its not as powerful but is flatter than X3's headphone out.


----------



## pack21

ostewart said:


> Both those can take advantage of the DAC so it would be good to get the C5D. For iPod classic you only need C5


 
 Thanks for your attention. 

 I read here and there some references that the C5 has more life than C5D, it is confirmed? 
 I read too battery lasts longer in C5. 
  
 I'm in doubt on which one to buy because I have several sources that use different situations, home, work..... 
  
 My usage order is: 
  
 Ipod Classic 7G (most)
 Ipod Touch 3G 
 Galaxy S4 (very rare)
  
  
 btw, a noob question, it is possibletake advantage of C5D connected to PS4 \ USB?


----------



## ostewart

I'm not sure about the PS4
  
 Yes the battery life is slightly better than C5D, but if you use the line in put of the C5D the battery life should be similar, it is only lower when you use the DAC as well as the amp


----------



## vicansoh

I have the C5D and the DAC works perfectly with my laptop/tablet/phone. 
  
 But I really want to utilize the DAC on the go with my dedicated audio player which is an iPod Classic. Is there any way to bypass the iPod's internal DAC and use the C5 DAC? I've seen 30 pin iPod to mini USB cables on the net (such as Cypherlabs website) but see a disclaimer that these cables won't work with iPod 5.5 since they don't support USB audio. They're also intended for a dedicated system.
  
 If there's no way to use the C5 DAC with my iPod classic, would I be able to use it with later iPod models like the 6th or 7th gen or touch? If there's no way to use it with those versions, is there a music player (like the X3/X5, C3, DX50/90, HM-700, any of the walkman's or Sansa's) that will work with the C5 DAC? I really want to use a dedicated music player with this DAC rather than my phone.


----------



## Koolpep

vicansoh said:


> I have the C5D and the DAC works perfectly with my laptop/tablet/phone.
> 
> But I really want to utilize the DAC on the go with my dedicated audio player which is an iPod Classic. Is there any way to bypass the iPod's internal DAC and use the C5 DAC? I've seen 30 pin iPod to mini USB cables on the net (such as Cypherlabs website) but see a disclaimer that these cables won't work with iPod 5.5 since they don't support USB audio. They're also intended for a dedicated system.
> 
> If there's no way to use the C5 DAC with my iPod classic, would I be able to use it with later iPod models like the 6th or 7th gen or touch? If there's no way to use it with those versions, is there a music player (like the X3/X5, C3, DX50/90, HM-700, any of the walkman's or Sansa's) that will work with the C5 DAC? I really want to use a dedicated music player with this DAC rather than my phone.


 
  
 No, the iPod classic won't work imho. I have the C5D as well and really like this little wonder. I drive it from my iPhone and iPad on the go with the lightning to USB connection kit, it's easy and works like a charm.
  
 However, if you have a high quality DAP, they all have very good DACs built in, there is no use (at least in the DX50, X3 price range) trying to use a audiophile DAP and then use an external DAC. However you can use the superior amp of the C5D with these DAPs since they all have great Line Outs. 
  
 Hope this helps,
 K


----------



## ostewart

The iPod Classic has a great DAC in it already, so the line-out is of sufficient quality for all on the go, and most at home listening. You will not gain much by using the DAC of the C5D.


----------



## FiJAAS

ostewart said:


> Yeah I still use it. I also use the X3 + DDS HA-01 sometimes.
> 
> Not really used the X5.
> 
> C5D is excellent. If you are only using it with the X3 you only need the C5.




Could you take more pictures of your X3 and C5 setup?


----------



## vicansoh

I read both of your comments over three hours ago. This whole time I've been researching LOD's/DAP's/DAC's/chips/amps. I feel a strong headache coming on (or is it this WM8758 chip?).
  
 I appreciate both of you helping me. 
  
 I've read some "debates" about which iPod has the better DAC. It seems there is a large following for the Wolfson chip in my particular model. Many claim it's warmer and has more of a soundstage compared with the newer Cirrus chips used in the following generations. There are also many who point to the technical superiority of the Cirrus chips and say they're cleaner. 
  
 If I was to get a DX50 or X3 would there be a noticable improvement in sound? From what I've read the WM8740 chip in the Fiio is a technical upgrade over the WM8758 used in the iPod. Better sound quality or more of a sidegrade?
  
 Both of you mentioned the line out. Does the iPod line out compare favorably with the mentioned DAP's? Also, are there advantages to using a higher end portable cable such as the Green Line from Alo or the different ZY cable offerings? Or am I getting the same sound I would with the L8? Would the same be true for something like the X3 as with the iPod?
  
 And about the LOD. Is there going to be a difference in using an LOD over a regular line out cable? I own the L8 and L9 and from experience think the L8 is terrible. The cable moves around and I constantly hear hissing, clicking, distortion and so on. The L9 is much better in that regard and I never get any distortion. But is there a sound advantage to using the dock cable rather than regular line out or vise versa? 
  
 This question is actually on topic  If I plug my C5D into the computer and then I plug the C5D into the O2, the O2 amp is bypassing both the computer and C5D amp, right? So I'm getting the DAC feature of the C5D and the amp feature of the O2. Or am I actually hearing a mixed amplification from both devices?  
  
 This is probably better left for the folks at JDS, but is an optical input mod possible with the C5D or ODAC?
  
 I had the E18 and C5D at the same time. The level of performance from the C5D outdid the Fiio in every regard. Bass was more fluid (not to mention the three intensity settings compared to two) with a quality punch and the treble had a rich texture. The overall sound from the Fiio was colored with unnatural highs. The overall sound from the C5D was simply my headphones, only better  Back went the Kunlun. I agree the C5D is a gem.


----------



## ostewart

Well the line out of the X3 and iPod classic sound very similar and I cannot note any huge difference's. Headphone out is a different story.

Cables I use pure silver, I make my own and that way don't spend mega bucks for a well built cable. SQ wise very small difference if any, slightly more sparkle over copper.
You will want to use a LOD with an iPod and normal line out cable from X3, otherwise you'll be double amping the headphone out of the iPod.

C5D to O2 you will be double amping as the C5D doesn't have a dedicated line out unless you ask JDS Labs to modify it for you.


----------



## FiJAAS

If anyone use the Fiio X5 with the JDS Labs C5, could you please post pictures of your setup?


----------



## miceblue

fijaas said:


> If anyone use the Fiio X5 with the JDS Labs C5, could you please post pictures of your setup?



This was with a touring X5 unit I had a few months ago. X5 -> FiiO L2 cable -> C5D/C5 -> V-MODA Crossfade M-100


----------



## FiJAAS

miceblue said:


> This was with a touring X5 unit I had a few months ago. X5 -> FiiO L2 cable -> C5D/C5 -> V-MODA Crossfade M-100




Thanks!
How did you like this setup?
Did they pair well with each other?


----------



## miceblue

fijaas said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > This was with a touring X5 unit I had a few months ago. X5 -> FiiO L2 cable -> C5D/C5 -> V-MODA Crossfade M-100
> ...



I actually liked the pairing much more than the X5 by itself. The C5/C5D provides a much cleaner-sounding output in comparison. I always found the X5's amp to sound coloured similar to the E12 amp, and the C5/C5D provides a much more transparent sound overall: better-defined bass, more forward midrange, extended, detailed highs, and a pretty wide soundstage in comparison.


----------



## FiJAAS

miceblue said:


> I actually liked the pairing much more than the X5 by itself. The C5/C5D provides a much cleaner-sounding output in comparison. I always found the X5's amp to sound coloured similar to the E12 amp, and the C5/C5D provides a much more transparent sound overall: better-defined bass, more forward midrange, extended, detailed highs, and a pretty wide soundstage in comparison.




Thanks again,
This is good news.
Could you take pictures of the stacked side be side?
Would HS6 stacking kit work well with the C5?


----------



## wmedrz

ostewart said:


> Well the line out of the X3 and iPod classic sound very similar and I cannot note any huge difference's. Headphone out is a different story.
> 
> Cables I use pure silver, I make my own and that way don't spend mega bucks for a well built cable. SQ wise very small difference if any, slightly more sparkle over copper.
> You will want to use a LOD with an iPod and normal line out cable from X3, otherwise you'll be double amping the headphone out of the iPod.
> ...




If i get it modified for the line out will i still be able to use the amp by itself with ipad & dap?


----------



## ostewart

Yes
It makes the aux input to an input/output as well. Nothing changes performance wise


----------



## Mmet

ostewart said:


> Well the line out of the X3 and iPod classic sound very similar and I cannot note any huge difference's. Headphone out is a different story.
> 
> Cables I use pure silver, I make my own and that way don't spend mega bucks for a well built cable. SQ wise very small difference if any, slightly more sparkle over copper.
> You will want to use a LOD with an iPod and normal line out cable from X3, otherwise you'll be double amping the headphone out of the iPod.
> ...


 
 it is not my experience .... the line out of x3 is far more better than any ipod i've tried including the 5th gen classic ...  with fiio e11 the sound is more or less the same of headphone out .. lifeless , dry , boring and weak .... i heated the e11 because of the ipod line out .... but with x3 things changed dramatically : more powerful & full sounding ... the music felled full of life !!
 i dont know about the c5 but it supposed to be higher and more transparent


----------



## ostewart

X3 sounds more powerful because it is louder. Try volume matching as best you can and it will be very close. That is from a 7G iPod classic


----------



## miceblue

fijaas said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > I actually liked the pairing much more than the X5 by itself. The C5/C5D provides a much cleaner-sounding output in comparison. I always found the X5's amp to sound coloured similar to the E12 amp, and the C5/C5D provides a much more transparent sound overall: better-defined bass, more forward midrange, extended, detailed highs, and a pretty wide soundstage in comparison.
> ...



Unfortunately I no longer have the touring X5 unit, so that's the only photo I have.
The HS6 was meant to pair the X5 with the E12, and the C5/C5D is much smaller than either of those, so I don't think that kit will work.


----------



## Mmet

ostewart said:


> X3 sounds more powerful because it is louder. Try volume matching as best you can and it will be very close. That is from a 7G iPod classic



Loudness does not equal fullness and more engaging sound .... It equals more ear fatigue ,though I didn't try the 7th Gen iPod classic ...that is from 5th and 6th Gen classic.. IPod touch 4th


----------



## vicansoh

ostewart said:


> Yes
> It makes the aux input to an input/output as well. Nothing changes performance wise


 
 I contacted JDS and this is the response:
  
"Yes, we can convert the 3.5mm analog input jack to serve as a 3.5mm DAC line-output. This means you will lose the ability to use C5's amplifier with an external analog device. C5D will still operate together as a DAC + amp. Cost will be $1 + return shipping."
  
What does it mean that I will lose the ability to use the amp with an external analog device???


----------



## vicansoh

Whoops, it looks like I have two headfi accounts. I'm the same person as wmedrz. I must have been logged in automatically with my business email. The april account was created while I was under the influence of heavy doses of vicodin and oxycontin from my knee surgery. No wonder I have no recollection of ever creating that account


----------



## miceblue

vicansoh said:


> ostewart said:
> 
> 
> > Yes
> ...



The 3.5 mm input of the C5D will now be a 3.5 mm line out output. You can't use it as an external amp anymore because the input is now an output.


----------



## vicansoh

miceblue said:


> The 3.5 mm input of the C5D will now be a 3.5 mm line out output. You can't use it as an external amp anymore because the input is now an output.


 
 So I won't be able to use it with my iPod? That's what I feared  I noticed earlier in the thread that someone (I think it was you) mentioned something about a "switch" or some other way to switch it from line out to line in and go back? Is there a way to do this?
  
 I'll post with my other account from now on.


----------



## ostewart

Ah ok
My bad.
Means you can only use it as a DAC+Amp and not as just an amp with a normal aux cable.


----------



## wmedrz

No problem. The only solution I see is to get the standalone ODAC and pair it with my O2 for home use, and use the C5D with my phone and iPod for mobile use. 
  
 The dream machine I would like is the O2+ODAC combo limited edition + regular line input + optical input + battery pack


----------



## miceblue

fijaas said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > I actually liked the pairing much more than the X5 by itself. The C5/C5D provides a much cleaner-sounding output in comparison. I always found the X5's amp to sound coloured similar to the E12 amp, and the C5/C5D provides a much more transparent sound overall: better-defined bass, more forward midrange, extended, detailed highs, and a pretty wide soundstage in comparison.
> ...



Ah it looks like I do have another photo!


----------



## FiJAAS

miceblue said:


> Ah it looks like I do have another photo!




From the looks it seems the HS6 would
Be able to fit it


----------



## chengsta

Man, I really love the clarity and bass of the c5.  If you guys ever plan on dis-continuing the c5 or c5d let me know beforehand so I can buy several backups.


----------



## chengsta

So if I use the c5d as a computer dac, I would only need to be plugged into 1 usb port, as that port would charge AND provide the digital feed at the same time, correct?
 I've never bothered with desktop amp/dacs but the c5 that I have is just too good and I want the same qualities for my desktop, to go with my oculus rift.


----------



## wmedrz

chengsta said:


> So if I use the c5d as a computer dac, I would only need to be plugged into 1 usb port, as that port would charge AND provide the digital feed at the same time, correct?
> I've never bothered with desktop amp/dacs but the c5 that I have is just too good and I want the same qualities for my desktop, to go with my oculus rift.


 
 Yes it will charge and you will ahve the DAC function at the same time. There is a switch on the back, you can set it to "battery" or "charge" for when you have it with a phone via OTG or plugged into computer/laptop etc.


----------



## chengsta

Hey so I need a more powerful amp to power my new hifiman he400.  But I don't want just any amp.  The c5 bass is just too addicting, but does not put out enough wattage to drive the he-400s I'm told.  So anyone know if there is something exactly like the c5 (with the bass boost switch), but with more power output?


----------



## ostewart

iFi iCan?


----------



## chengsta

ostewart said:


> iFi iCan?


 

 wow, ifi looks good.  Even though it seems to only have half the power of the e12 (.4w vs .8w), it seems to have good reviews.  So yea I pulled the trigger, thanks.  If this doesn't improve the He400's then I guess I was just expecting too much out of it.  But either way I should be able to get a great amp out of this!


----------



## miceblue

chengsta said:


> ostewart said:
> 
> 
> > iFi iCan?
> ...



Power output isn't the only thing to factor when searching for an amp, the amp's sound signature also counts. The E12 tends to have a bright sound signature with a congested-sounding soundstage and a somewhat wooly bass response with rolloff on the two extremes of the audible frequency spectrum, which probably isn't the best pairing with the HE-400 from what I remember about it.

FiiO's own measurements of the E12 actually correspond pretty well to what I hear.
http://www.fiio.com.cn/products/index.aspx?ID=100000038732625&MenuID=105026001





^ note that the frequency response curve actually tilts upwards from the bass to the treble, both extremes are rolled-off





^ note that the distortion is highest at the upper-bass frequencies and the upper-midrange/lower-treble transition


----------



## chengsta

yeah I see that now.  Thanks mice, I'm sure I probably would've been disappointed with the e12.  I am sure that power does play a role though, just not sure how signifigant it is.  I love my jds c5 to death, but alas it is said to be weak in the power department.  I will still keep my c5 to use with my 16's though so nothing goes to waste 
  
 edit:  gosh i feel like such a traitor to jds labs lol.


----------



## ostewart

Yes its true power isn't everything. And the iCan has gain settings too. It can power the Audeze products very nicely.

I have JDS C5D and O2, also got a lot of iFi gear


----------



## FiJAAS

Is the IFI - MICRO iCAN HEADPHONE AMP really better than the C5D?


----------



## ClieOS

miceblue said:


> ...
> 
> FiiO's own measurements of the E12 actually correspond pretty well to what I hear.
> ...


 
  
 To put these graphs on perspective, E12 only has about 1dB of difference from 20Hz to 20kHz, and that's at the edge of what most human can differentiate, and I'll bet most probably can't tell any difference. As for the distortion figure - it is even smaller, only around 0.001% of difference and it will take some very serious golden ears, if any possibility at all, to tell 0.001% noise from 0.002%. I think my point is, while graphs has its usefulness, whether a (or every) person can draw a correlation between it and actually listening might not be that conclusive.
  


fijaas said:


> Is the IFI - MICRO iCAN HEADPHONE AMP really better than the C5D?


 
  
 Purely as an amp, I do find micro iCAN to be better than C5 (don't have C5D). Then again, we are talking about desktop vs. portable amp here, so micro iCAN naturally has an advantage.


----------



## chengsta

I just got my ican micro today, and comparing it to my c5...they are so very close, with the edge going to the ican (obviously because it's a desktop amp).  I can't comment on the nano because I don't have one.  They sound like they have the same sound signature (almost!), and same level of bass boost! 
  
 Out of the box though, I didn't like the ican micro paired with my jh16.  However it worked really good on my he-400.  Let me explain:  The jh16's are more sensitive, and therefore picks up the supposed 'tubey' sound a bit too easily from the ican.  Its definitely more noticeable on the jh16's than the he400.  I guess this also adds to the bass sounding a hair more extended than the c5.  But once you get used to it, it just vanishes.  And on that note, the ican micro is just a bit more detailed.  But this is where the ican shines:  Adjustability.  If you want more detail, you can just flip the '3d' setting to max.  WOW, detail and airyness, and soundstage take a step up.  But unfortunately so does the treble.  You don't appreciate the rolled off highs on the jh16's until you experience harshness.  I'm sorry for doubting you, Mr Harvey.  But I still like it, so I'll still use it(3d switch), and just turn down the volume.  I don't think that '3d' switch is any good for bright headphones/iems though, ouch. 
  
 So overall the ican is slightly more detailed at default, has the same amount of bass, and a hair more dynamic. Turn on the 3d switch and its basically game over for the c5, depending on your headphones/iems (won't work well with everything).  There is one major downside though:  The hiss.  Your iems will pick up the hiss from the ican even at the lowest volume.  However, I am still very happy with the c5 as a portable amp because its pretty damn close.  which is pretty damn good for a portable.  I have to say though, that having the ican for a few hours makes me wonder about the ican nano....my wallet is crying.


----------



## ostewart

They do have a resistor inline adaptor for sensitive IEM's. Shoot them a message and they will be able to help.


----------



## WinterCharm

Can you use your C5D from a desktop/laptop without wearing out the battery (i.e., will usb power constantly charge the battery, or is there a bypass circuit built in so that the battery stops charging at 100%) and then having it ready to go when you unplug for travel?


----------



## MisterCAG

I'm wondering what the advice will be when asked this but I have my iPhone 5 as the source and I was wondering if buying an amp/dac (was leaning towards the c5) would increase the soundstage/clarity on my IE80 IEMs? Is it worth it? Will I be able to notice any difference? I also have a pair of V-moda M100. I'm not trying to run any high impedance cans.


----------



## WinterCharm

mistercag said:


> I'm wondering what the advice will be when asked this but I have my iPhone 5 as the source and I was wondering if buying an amp/dac (was leaning towards the c5) would increase the soundstage/clarity on my IE80 IEMs? Is it worth it? Will I be able to notice any difference? I also have a pair of V-moda M100. I'm not trying to run any high impedance cans.


 

 From what I've read on here, few IEMs will benefit very much from amping, since they are designed to be easy to drive. With headphones, most headphones, even the easy to drive ones, benefit from amping.


----------



## Smurfs2010

winter charm said:


> Can you use your C5D from a desktop/laptop without wearing out the battery (i.e., will usb power constantly charge the battery, or is there a bypass circuit built in so that the battery stops charging at 100%) and then having it ready to go when you unplug for travel?


 
  
 This is a good question to which I don't have an answer but I can try.  When I hook up the unit to my laptop for charging, the charge light comes on while charging.  It does turn off after the battery is fully charged.  This tells me that there might be a cut off switch when the battery is fully charged.  When I turn the power on, the light turns on so I can't be sure that the battery is not being touched while the unit is hooked to the laptop/desktop.


----------



## jseaber

winter charm said:


> From what I've read on here, few IEMs will benefit very much from amping, since they are designed to be easy to drive. With headphones, most headphones, even the easy to drive ones, benefit from amping.


 
  
 Inefficient headphones benefit primarily from additional power. Sensitive IEMs benefit tremendously from amplification when you consider SNR and non-ideal frequency response. A good amp minimizes background hiss and corrects inaccurate frequency response (assuming the source had non-ideal output-Z).
  
 Whatever headphones you use, you need to consider the quality of your source. Does its power, SNR, and output-Z satisfy your headphones?
  


smurfs2010 said:


> This is a good question to which I don't have an answer but I can try.  When I hook up the unit to my laptop for charging, the charge light comes on while charging.  It does turn off after the battery is fully charged.  This tells me that there might be a cut off switch when the battery is fully charged.  When I turn the power on, the light turns on so I can't be sure that the battery is not being touched while the unit is hooked to the laptop/desktop.


 
  
 Yes, C5/C5D contain a smart charging IC. Battery charging stops at 100% charge level and does not resume until you either reconnect the USB cable (charging will quickly halt), or the level drops below 95%.


----------



## olddude

Both my current iems (Dunu 1000) and my previous iems (TF10) certainly "seem" to sound better when I use an amp.  This was true using the C5 with a Colorfly C3 and now with an iBasso DX50.


----------



## fnkcow

olddude said:


> Both my current iems (Dunu 1000) and my previous iems (TF10) certainly "seem" to sound better when I use an amp.  This was true using the C5 with a Colorfly C3 and now with an iBasso DX50.


 
 Considering sound quality only, would you prefer Colorfly C3 + C5 combo, or just DX50 by itself?


----------



## olddude

Different sq for each.  C3 is clear, neutral, flat eq.  And the GUI stinks like a fish not on ice.  Even sitting down, it's hard to work the damn thing.  Walking?  Forget it.  With the C5 it sounds much fuller, has more oomph to the sound, I liked it much more.  But the GUI still stank.
  
 I've not listend to the DX50 through HO with no amp for more than 5 minutes or so.  I already had the amp when I bought it and saw no reason not to use it. But the GUI is very easy to work with, and I think it has better (different) sound.  It's a more "modern" device. more like an iPod than the C3, which is a box that plays music.  Using the amp, the sound is wonderfully full, rich and wide and smooth.  The little I listened to it without an amp (using 1.5.0), it sounded good.  I think it depends on what sound you like, as well as the size of your wallet.  I looked at the more expensive players like the iBasso 100 and the AK 100/120, and it seemed that the DX50 was very close to them for much less cost.  
  
 I sold my C3, if that tells you anything.


----------



## H20Fidelity

After using DX50's interface it's hard to take Colorfly C3' UI seriously any longer.


----------



## WinterCharm

jseaber said:


> Inefficient headphones benefit primarily from additional power. Sensitive IEMs benefit tremendously from amplification when you consider SNR and non-ideal frequency response. A good amp minimizes background hiss and corrects inaccurate frequency response (assuming the source had non-ideal output-Z).
> 
> Whatever headphones you use, you need to consider the quality of your source. Does its power, SNR, and output-Z satisfy your headphones?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey John! I got my Red/Silver C5D that you sent me!  Thank you so much! It sounds amazing.
  
 And great explanation! It cleared a lot of misconceptions I had about amps and when/why to use one


----------



## 214324

jseaber said:


> Yes, C5/C5D contain a smart charging IC. Battery charging stops at 100% charge level and does not resume until you either reconnect the USB cable (charging will quickly halt), or the level drops below 95%.


 
 I think awhile ago somebody did a battery swap with an iPod or Samsung Galaxy S3/S4 battery on the C5. Does the C5D use the same battery?


----------



## jseaber

hybridcore said:


> I think awhile ago somebody did a battery swap with an iPod or Samsung Galaxy S3/S4 battery on the C5. Does the C5D use the same battery?


 
  
 If I remember correctly, that mod was discussed deep in this thread. Ultimately the battery was incompatible because it has a 2-wire connector (positive, negative), whereas C5/C5D use a 3-pin connector (positive, temp sensor, negative).


----------



## 214324

jseaber said:


> If I remember correctly, that mod was discussed deep in this thread. Ultimately the battery was incompatible because it has a 2-wire connector (positive, negative), whereas C5/C5D use a 3-pin connector (positive, temp sensor, negative).


 
 Is there any place to get replacement/spare batteries (or any serial number or product number we could search for)?


----------



## miceblue

hybridcore said:


> jseaber said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, C5/C5D contain a smart charging IC. Battery charging stops at 100% charge level and does not resume until you either reconnect the USB cable (charging will quickly halt), or the level drops below 95%.
> ...






rckyosho said:


> Apparently the battery in the C5 is made by a company called Cameron Sino and it's actually an ipod 4th gen
> compatible replacement battery(model no. CS-IPOD4HL...doh!).There's actually some benchmark done(
> *[COLOR=00FF00]here[/COLOR]
> *) when this guy was upgrading his battery(
> ...








[rule]This combo worked out better than I thought it would! I need to set the C5D to high gain and about volume 20/63, but it works well nonetheless.



Speaking of the battery though jseaber will the C5D function properly if I remove the battery and use the C5D only as a USB DAC/amp?


----------



## WinterCharm

> Speaking of the battery though @jseaber will the C5D function properly if I remove the battery and use the C5D only as a USB DAC/amp?


 
  
 He just mentioned a few posts ago that there is a smart charging circuit that only charges the battery when necessary, so you can use this as a desktop USB Dac/Amp for your more sensitive IEM's or headphones.
  
 Part of why I picked the C5D is because I wanted something I could use on a desk, or on the go  This little device does it all, sounds great, and looks classy.


----------



## miceblue

winter charm said:


> > Speaking of the battery though [@=/u/143198/jseaber]@jseaber[/@] will the C5D function properly if I remove the battery and use the C5D only as a USB DAC/amp?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Right, that's when charging the battery. If I remove the battery as a whole though, will it the C5D still function properly as a USB DAC/amp? I'm guessing the answer is yes, but I just wanted to double-check.


----------



## dbdynsty25

Just an FYI for anyone interested, the C5D works perfectly with the new LG G3.  I was never able to use it with my Nexus 5 based on the output configuration of the N5s microUSB, but that's not an issue anymore.  The G3 sounds fantastic with it.


----------



## pack21

Is true or is just placebo? I have a feeling that my new C5 is suffering burn-in, using the amp for several days it seems soundstage is opening and bass become more prominent.

Thx


----------



## olddude

pack21 said:


> Is true or is just placebo? I have a feeling that my new C5 is suffering burn-in, using the amp for several days it seems soundstage is opening and bass become more prominent.
> 
> Thx


 
 Real.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 JDS, when I asked them about how I should do burn-in, told me to just play music as I normally do, and to let it occur naturally (not play white noise or other for a few days non-stop).  After a week it sounded better, and after a month it sounded better still.  Are you using the stock interconnect?  That will burn-in also.  My expensive ones (silver, silver/gold) took a goodly time (I switched them at a certain point) to do so as well.


----------



## miceblue

What reasonable explanation can you provide for "burn-in" for solid state products? I only know of capacitors filling up, or the circuit reaching thermal equilibrium (for the most part), both of which should take less than an hour. I don't understand a month's worth of "burn-in" though.


----------



## olddude

I have seen lots of posts on these threads pro and con the concept of burn-in on various devices.  I'm not an engineer or sound tech.  When I queried JDS, they told me to play normally to accomplish attaining full sound capabilities of the C5.   Other than that, I have no answer for you.
  
 Edit: Found my response from JDS that I posted here in late Dec.   _"Thanks for the great feedback!   Some C5 users have reported burn in to take about 50-100 hours. We always recommend natural usage; no special procedures are necessary."_


----------



## jseaber

olddude said:


> I have seen lots of posts on these threads pro and con the concept of burn-in on various devices.  I'm not an engineer or sound tech.  When I queried JDS, they told me to play normally to accomplish attaining full sound capabilities of the C5.   Other than that, I have no answer for you.
> 
> Edit: Found my response from JDS that I posted here in late Dec.   _"Thanks for the great feedback!   Some C5 users have reported burn in to take about 50-100 hours. We always recommend natural usage; no special procedures are necessary."_


 
  
 To follow up on burn-in, the above statement comes from customer feedback. I've yet to adopt a measurable theory of burn-in for solid-state amps, but that's not to totally discredit the idea. JDS Labs builds objectively excellent designs. While it's less often discussed in our product descriptions, we acknowledge the importance of the subjective experience (how does the device look and feel, and what do users _think_ of the design). Subjective perception of sound quality morphs with time. Even if an amp exhibits no measurable changes, a user's brain can subjectively impact perception after a few days/weeks/years.


----------



## FiJAAS

I have a question? Has anyone tried ALO Audio The National?

How does it stack up against the C5?


----------



## PFULMTL

My C5D laser engraving 
  

  

  

  
  
 So you see it's better to have an image with more mid tones.  More light grays than large dark spots (when desaturated).  Looks better at certain angles than straight on.


----------



## ostewart

Incredible. I'll upload some pics of my engraving soon


----------



## Mmet

It





pfulmtl said:


> My C5D laser engraving
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
It looks awesome ...congratulations


----------



## pack21

wow!  my C5 now seems completely open, after 3 weeks of usage, my headphones thanked.
  
  
  
 Now looking for one O2 + K702 for home room.


----------



## FiJAAS

Dear C5D owners, will the ALO Black Star Wallet fit the C5D correctly along with an iPod Classic?

http://www.aloaudio.com/black-star-amp-wallet


----------



## slackerpo

yeah that engraving looks great


----------



## luisdent

That looks awesome!

And for the record, the c5/c5d sound superb with the Fostex T50RP (modded of course)


----------



## ostewart

The Alo wallet should fit. Not sure anyone has it with the C5 to confirm though.


----------



## FiJAAS

ostewart said:


> The Alo wallet should fit. Not sure anyone has it with the C5 to confirm though.




Thanks. I also have a few more questions.

Has anybody compared the JDS C5 against ALO The National?

I'm thinking about ordering the The AlgoRhythm Solo along with the C5, would they pair well? My iPod Classic 7th Generation and Beyerdynamics DT770 250 OHM will be used with them.


----------



## ostewart

I find the DAC of the 7G to be good enough and sounds great with the C5. I'm guessing adding the algorithm solo would add maybe 5% sq gain.


----------



## nuss

This is a bit of a long shot but has anyone done a comparison between the C5 / C5D and the pico slim in terms of SQ?  i'm struggling to decide between the 2 for CIEM's!


----------



## Malfunkt

Hey, could any of you (JDS Labs included) recommend a good solution for a powered USB hub. I have no problems connecting my iPhone 4S to the C5D, its just that it really seems to drain the phone fast. I’m thinking that a powered USB hub could power both units. So far, absolutely loving the C5D. Seems to be a great match with the HD650. Sounds very clear, open and powerful when it needs to be. Even without the bass boost, the low end is clear and taught. 
  
 Edit: oh, and no, it is not in 'charge' mode. It is switched to battery.


----------



## miceblue

miceblue said:


> winter charm said:
> 
> 
> > > Speaking of the battery though [@=/u/143198/jseaber]@jseaber[/@] will the C5D function properly if I remove the battery and use the C5D only as a USB DAC/amp?
> ...



Mmk. I removed the battery, plugged in the C5D to my computer and all is good. It looks like you can remove the battery from the C5D and still use it as a USB DAC.

The reason why I asked was because it was brought to my attention that some folks in the hifi community prefer their devices to be battery powered since it reduces noise due to a noisy USB port and things of the sort. I had forgotten that the C5D could be just powered through a USB bus though since it has the USB power/charging or Self Power switch. Anywho, before I realised this, I wanted to see if the C5D has background noise when being powered without a battery, and I'm happy to report that this thing is dead silent.

In my C5D review here on Head-Fi, I mentioned that the device gets a bit warm after using it for a while. I have the C5D out of the enclosure at the moment since I took out the battery and it looks like the SA9027 (USB audio streaming controller) and DAC chips get warm, which are directly beneath the battery.



Also, if you're interested in the custom firmware I wrote, you can download it here:
https://github.com/miceblue425/C5D_Firmware

It took me more time than necessary to figure out how to upload that using Github. XD


----------



## mark5hs

Hey guys, can someone tell me if the C5D would be right for me? 
  
 I would be using them for my laptop and for my Galaxy S4. Primarily with VSonic GR07 bass edition and B&W P5, but also with HE-400 so I want it to be able to power that decently. I have an EF2A for my desktop and a FiiO E10, so I'm looking for something that'll be a big upgrade over the E10 but also able to be used with a smart phone. Would the C5D fit my needs? The other one I'm considering is FiiO E18, though from what I can gather, the C5D is a better device? Would anything else be a better option for me? I'm fine spending up to $300
  
 Also, this is a noob question, but I'd use the 3.5mm connection to the amp alone when I'm using it for my phone, right? 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## tracyca

I use my C5D with my htc evo lte, note 3, and my iPod touch 4g, iPad mini retina and it sounds great! I have no problem connecting to any players or computer. I only listen to IEM I must add.


----------



## chengsta

mark5hs said:


> Hey guys, can someone tell me if the C5D would be right for me?
> 
> I would be using them for my laptop and for my Galaxy S4. Primarily with VSonic GR07 bass edition and B&W P5, but also with HE-400 so I want it to be able to power that decently. I have an EF2A for my desktop and a FiiO E10, so I'm looking for something that'll be a big upgrade over the E10 but also able to be used with a smart phone. Would the C5D fit my needs? The other one I'm considering is FiiO E18, though from what I can gather, the C5D is a better device? Would anything else be a better option for me? I'm fine spending up to $300
> 
> ...


 

 I have the c5 and it cannot power the he400 unfortunately.  With bass boost on, all you get is clipping.  I currently don't have a portable setup for my he400s, I only use a desktop amp and its much better.  The c5s are still the best amp for iems.


----------



## mark5hs

Hmm might just have to settle for using it with my Vsonic and bowers (and maybe that Rockit Sounds R50 I've been thinking of buying). 
  
 Though I actually think the HE400 doesn't sound too bad playing straight out of my phone (definitely sounds better than straight from my laptop). 
  
 Also I have been using them with a FiiO E10 from my laptop. It doesn't really bring out too much clarity or detail (though definitely an imporvement over the onboard soundcard) but it does make them much louder and thus more listenable. I was hoping a new portable amp/dac would give a big boost in sound quality over the E10.


----------



## TheGame21x

mark5hs said:


> Hey guys, can someone tell me if the C5D would be right for me?
> 
> I would be using them for my laptop and for my Galaxy S4. Primarily with VSonic GR07 bass edition and B&W P5, but also with HE-400 so I want it to be able to power that decently. I have an EF2A for my desktop and a FiiO E10, so I'm looking for something that'll be a big upgrade over the E10 but also able to be used with a smart phone. Would the C5D fit my needs? The other one I'm considering is FiiO E18, though from what I can gather, the C5D is a better device? Would anything else be a better option for me? I'm fine spending up to $300
> 
> ...


 
 If you're planning to use the C5D as a DAC to replace your E10, you should know that it doesn't have a line out feature so you can't use it with your EF2A, unless you're just willing to fudge it and use the headphone out, but I wouldn't recommend it.
  
 As a DAC/amp for a phone, or if you just want to use it as your all in one DAC/amp with yout laptop, the C5D is amazing. I'd highly recommend it for that purpose. It doesn't have a lot of driving power but the HE-400 is a relatively efficient planar anywyay so I didn't have any issues using them with the C5D.


----------



## Arttx

Anybody experiencing audio dropouts with his JDS Labs C5D amp/DAC? 
I have had from the first moment although I have maxed the PC performance. What a shame, I thought this would be a solid piece of gear, but seems not to work very well.
So I get audio dropouts by just scrolling a web page. DPC latency is generally <<500 us but occationally jumps higher. 
My PC is a Lenovo X240 laptop with i5 @1.9 GHz.

Any pointers, please?


----------



## s0ckpupp3t

arttx said:


> Anybody experiencing audio dropouts with his JDS Labs C5D amp/DAC?
> I have had from the first moment although I have maxed the PC performance. What a shame, I thought this would be a solid piece of gear, but seems not to work very well.
> So I get audio dropouts by just scrolling a web page. DPC latency is generally <<500 us but occationally jumps higher.
> My PC is a Lenovo X240 laptop with i5 @1.9 GHz.
> ...


 
 I had a similar issue with my Dell laptop and the C5D.   Turns out for whatever reason my laptop wasn't playing nice with the C5D in USB asynchronous mode (no problems with my wife's Macbook).  JDS sent me a software update to reconfigure the C5D to USB adaptive mode which completely fixed the problem.  I recommend emailing JDS on this.
  
 My posts on this issue around here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/647838/jds-labs-c5-c5d-pg96-portable-amp-amp-dac-appreciation-discussion-thread/2355


----------



## ThurstonX

This is a bit of a cross-post of something I just posted in an HE-500s thread, but since the C5 is half the experiment, I figured it might interest this crowd.
  
  
 So, received and have been burning in my third pair of HE-500s.  Since I'd measured the resistance of my other HFM cans, I did the same for these.  32.4 & 33.9 are what I get.  Compare that to the ~50 ohms for my HE-560s.  At that low rating, I decided to see if my li'l JDS Labs C5 portable amp could drive the HE-500s.  I tried it with a previous pair (the first, I think, which I never measured), and it was partial success.  Some things didn't clip - hot masters, I reckon - while others couldn't get loud enough to enjoy without clipping.  While I've only tested one song thus far, the C5 drove them very well, not just from a volume perspective, but quality, which that little amp definitely has.  Sadly, the HE-500s still aren't really portable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Then I plugged in the 50-ohm HE-560s.... annnnnd quickly took them off.  It just wasn't on, which was predictable.  With the volume max'd on high gain, I could barely hear it.  OK, not that bad, but nowhere near enough power.  I know HFM products vary widely, and even within a particular model, but didn't they say the HE-560s would be easier to drive?  Maybe I'm not remembering that correctly.  Thankfully, my Lyr packs more than enough quality power to make those babies sing.
  
 So, while I'm not recommending the C5 for the HE-500s, esp. considering my earlier tests, it'll certainly do in a pinch, *if* your HE-500s have a relative lower resistance.


----------



## miceblue

thurstonx said:


> This is a bit of a cross-post of something I just posted in an HE-500s thread, but since the C5 is half the experiment, I figured it might interest this crowd.
> 
> [rule]
> So, received and have been burning in my third pair of HE-500s.  Since I'd measured the resistance of my other HFM cans, I did the same for these.  32.4 & 33.9 are what I get.  Compare that to the ~50 ohms for my HE-560s.  At that low rating, I decided to see if my li'l JDS Labs C5 portable amp could drive the HE-500s.  I tried it with a previous pair (the first, I think, which I never measured), and it was partial success.  Some things didn't clip - hot masters, I reckon - while others couldn't get loud enough to enjoy without clipping.  While I've only tested one song thus far, the C5 drove them very well, not just from a volume perspective, but quality, which that little amp definitely has.  Sadly, the HE-500s still aren't really portable
> ...



Interesting to note. A touring HE-560 unit will be making its way to me in the upcoming weeks, so I'll be sure to give those a try with the C5D as well.

HiFiMAN rates the HE-560 at 90 db/mW, which is slightly more efficient than the HE-500. I usually calculate power ratings at 90 dB SPL RMS and + 15 dB SPL for any peaks with average dynamic music (I accounted for music with a dynamic range rating of DR15 in this case), for a total of 105 dB SPL. The C5D can output 1.182 VRMS at 32 Ω, or 43.5 mW. The HE-560 requires 32 mW at 50 Ω to reach the 105 dB peaks, so the C5D is cutting it pretty close.

Actually, I have this post bookmarked.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/647838/jds-labs-c5-c5d-pg96-portable-amp-amp-dac-appreciation-discussion-thread/450#post_9233131

It looks like the C5 can approximately output 50 mW into a 50 Ω load, so it should be sufficient for the HE-560 at a fairly loud volume level (90 dB SPL RMS is pretty loud for listening to music).


----------



## ThurstonX

miceblue said:


> Interesting to note. A touring HE-560 unit will be making its way to me in the upcoming weeks, so I'll be sure to give those a try with the C5D as well.
> 
> HiFiMAN rates the HE-560 at 90 db/mW, which is slightly more efficient than the HE-500. I usually calculate power ratings at 90 dB SPL RMS and + 15 dB SPL for any peaks with average dynamic music (I accounted for music with a dynamic range rating of DR15 in this case), for a total of 105 dB SPL. The C5D can output 1.182 VRMS at 32 Ω, or 43.5 mW. The HE-560 requires 32 mW at 50 Ω to reach the 105 dB peaks, so the C5D is cutting it pretty close.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Given my results, I'm very interested to hear about your results.  The resistance seems to play a big part in it.  If you remember to, measure the drivers using a DMM and post the numbers when you post your general results/impressions.


----------



## miceblue

thurstonx said:


> Given my results, I'm very interested to hear about your results.  The resistance seems to play a big part in it.  If you remember to, measure the drivers using a DMM and post the numbers when you post your general results/impressions.



How does one measure the drivers' impedance?


----------



## PFULMTL

arttx said:


> Anybody experiencing audio dropouts with his JDS Labs C5D amp/DAC?
> I have had from the first moment although I have maxed the PC performance. What a shame, I thought this would be a solid piece of gear, but seems not to work very well.
> So I get audio dropouts by just scrolling a web page. DPC latency is generally <<500 us but occationally jumps higher.
> My PC is a Lenovo X240 laptop with i5 @1.9 GHz.
> ...




Plug it into another available USB port. I had that problem when plugged into the rear, but it is gone when plugged into the side port.


----------



## mark5hs

I'm almost sold on the C5D. Is it worth the extra cost over FiiO E17/18?


----------



## ThurstonX

miceblue said:


> How does one measure the drivers' impedance?


 

 A Digital Multi-meter (DMM) set to measure resistance.  Black (COM) probe on the Sleeve portion of the TRS plug, then the red probe to Tip and Ring.  No biggie if you don't have a DMM, but it's a good investment at $7.


----------



## miceblue

mark5hs said:


> I'm almost sold on the C5D. Is it worth the extra cost over FiiO E17/18?



I haven't tried the E18, but I much prefer the C5D over my friend's E17 when I listened to it. The C5D sounds much more airy and transparent in comparison.





thurstonx said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > How does one measure the drivers' impedance?
> ...



Oh that's all you need to do? That's pretty simple to do then. : D
I though you meant measure directly across the wires on the driver as opposed to the cable.


----------



## PFULMTL

This is my portable setup that I bring with my laptop. I need the tablet for work to multitask, and don't even bother bringing my phone.  Don't want to use the laptop for music since it lasts less than 5 hours.
The DAC sounds much better this way than when plugged into the laptop or even desktop.
I need a cable like this, but shorter http://www.ubersignal.com/micro-usb-to-mini-usb-charging-cable-for-wilson-sleek-859967.html


----------



## mark5hs

OK I think I'll get the c5d! Thanks!


----------



## Chickamauga

C5D or Ibasso D42? Thoughts? Experiences?


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Has anyone do a a/b comparison between C5D and O2/ODAC too? The difference in price is quite a lot.
 Oh and is it worth it to upgrade from C412 to C5 (I have Grados only)? I used to have the C421 and still remember it fondly.


----------



## Nicolas L

williamleonhart said:


> Has anyone do a a/b comparison between C5D and O2/ODAC too? The difference in price is quite a lot.
> Oh and is it worth it to upgrade from C412 to C5 (I have Grados only)? I used to have the C421 and still remember it fondly.


 
  
 Oooh, finally a question that I'm able to answer, since I've auditioned both the C5, C5D and O2/ODAC with the HD598s. In my opinion, I prefer the O2/ODAC, since it's able to take advantage of the 598's open design for the sound stage, and for complicated pieces such as Sultans of Swing, the instrument separation and clarity is superior than the C5D. On the other hand, the C5D's sound signature is towards the 'dark' side, which personally I'm not a fan of, but I do admit, the light bass boost is sometimes fun for pieces by Daft Punk and Eagles. The high-bass boost is simply not my cup of tea and gives me migraines when I use it. 
  
 Feel free to ask more questions!


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Yep one of the best thing about the C421 to me is the bass boost. It gave Modern Talking a new Life. Unfortunately the DAC in C5D seems to be inferior to ODAC, I suppose? The first thing that I liked about O2+ODAC is that they made my 325is much clearer and enjoyable. I was hoping to find a more portable (and more affordable) in the C5D but it seems I'd have to keep bringing my clumsy ugly diy O2+ODAC with me to the office


----------



## jseaber

williamleonhart said:


> Yep one of the best thing about the C421 to me is the bass boost. It gave Modern Talking a new Life. Unfortunately the DAC in C5D seems to be inferior to ODAC, I suppose? The first thing that I liked about O2+ODAC is that they made my 325is much clearer and enjoyable. I was hoping to find a more portable (and more affordable) in the C5D but it seems I'd have to keep bringing my clumsy ugly diy O2+ODAC with me to the office


 
  
 George Boudreau and I were pleasantly surprised by C5D's SA9027 + PCM5102A benchmarks last year. I've refrained from posting side-by-side measurements because performance is so close, but anyone could have grabbed this data from published benchmarks.
  

 *C5D's DAC**ODAC*Frequency Response*+/- 0.14 dB**+/-0.1dB*THD+N 100 Hz*0.0014%*0.0029%THD+N 20 Hz*0.0015%*0.003%THD+N 10 kHz*0.0025%*0.003%IMD CCIF 19/20 Khz0.0015%*0.0011%*Noise A-Weighted0.0007%*0.0004%*Dynamic Range> 109 dB*> 110 dB*Linearity Error -90 dBFS 24/960.2 dB*0.0 dB*Crosstalk -10dBFS-80 dB*-93.5 dB*Sum of Jitter Components @ 11025 Hz*-112 dB*-105 dBMaximum Output Line Out 100K2.0VRMS2.0 VRMS
  
 Discussion:
  

*Frequency Response*: Tie. NwAvGuy rounded to nearest significant digit. We could have done the same. Actual ODAC frequency response is about +/-0.14dB!
*Noise and THD+N*: Both excellent. Noise this low is inaudible with all but the most sensitive equipment. The PCM5102A technically achieves superior THD+N performance, even considering its slightly higher baseline Noise.
*Dynamic Range*: Near tie.
*Linearity Error*: Slight advantage to ODAC. Minimal, if not inaudible listening impact.
*Jitter*: NwAvGuy put considerable time and effort into improving jitter of ODAC's ES9023. The PCM5102A measurably outperforms the ES9023 here. Audible? Unlikely.
*Crosstalk *is limited by the cable under test. See analyzer screenshot below, in which we compare ODAC via RCA cable (yellow) to ODAC via 3.5mm cable (red) to PCM5102A (blue). Notice that ODAC's crosstalk is actually outperformed by our SA9027+PCM5102A prototype (blue). C5D uses the same chips and slightly outperforms the blue and red devices under test. Lower is better:


----------



## qsk78

Hi. Has anyone tried the C5 with Fiio X5? Will it be a better combo than E12 +X5? Thanks!


----------



## miceblue

qsk78 said:


> Hi. Has anyone tried the C5 with Fiio X5? Will it be a better combo than E12 +X5? Thanks!






miceblue said:


> fijaas said:
> 
> 
> > miceblue said:
> ...


----------



## qsk78

Ok. Thanks!


----------



## miceblue

thurstonx said:


> So, received and have been burning in my third pair of HE-500s.  Since I'd measured the resistance of my other HFM cans, I did the same for these.  32.4 & 33.9 are what I get.  Compare that to the ~50 ohms for my HE-560s.  At that low rating, I decided to see if my li'l JDS Labs C5 portable amp could drive the HE-500s.  I tried it with a previous pair (the first, I think, which I never measured), and it was partial success.  Some things didn't clip - hot masters, I reckon - while others couldn't get loud enough to enjoy without clipping.  While I've only tested one song thus far, the C5 drove them very well, not just from a volume perspective, but quality, which that little amp definitely has.  Sadly, the HE-500s still aren't really portable
> 
> Then I plugged in the 50-ohm HE-560s.... annnnnd quickly took them off.  It just wasn't on, which was predictable.  With the volume max'd on high gain, I could barely hear it.  OK, not that bad, but nowhere near enough power.  I know HFM products vary widely, and even within a particular model, but didn't they say the HE-560s would be easier to drive?  Maybe I'm not remembering that correctly.  Thankfully, my Lyr packs more than enough quality power to make those babies sing.
> 
> So, while I'm not recommending the C5 for the HE-500s, esp. considering my earlier tests, it'll certainly do in a pinch, *if* your HE-500s have a relative lower resistance.



Mmk, so I received the HE-560 touring unit today and I measured its impedance at 57 Ω, which is in line with the HiFiMAN official specifications of 50 ± 8 Ω.
Let's assume the HE-560 is almost inefficient as the HE-500 as measured by Tyll at Innerfidelity with 2.04 mW to reach 90 dB SPL at 47 Ω, I'll round that to 2.0 mW at the measured 57 Ω.

2.0 mW * 2^5 = 64 mW to reach 105 dB SPL
From this post, the C5 theoretically doesn't have enough power to reach that. I'll assume the HE-560 has a linear impedance value amongst all frequencies since it is a planar magnetic headphone.

On my iPhone 4S, I have a DR15 (dynamic range of 15 dB) track from Ottmar Liebert's _Up Close_ binaural album (track #8: Up Close) in 320 kbps AAC that was made from the 24/96 HD Tracks version (apparently the lossy AAC version is at a 48 kHz sampling rate). Using the line out dock with the C5, I'm only on volume 13/63 with low gain (2.3x). Surprisingly it sounds pretty good I think compared to my Geek Out 450 unit. The C5's airy sound signature definitely matches with the HE-560 more than the somewhat congested Geek Out in my opinion.


Maybe I'm just not used to hearing clipping due to a lack of power, or I'm listening at a volume level lower than 90 dB SPL (I'm pretty sure I am), but this combination sounds okay to me. XD


----------



## ThurstonX

miceblue said:


> Mmk, so I received the HE-560 touring unit today and I measured its impedance at 57 Ω, which is in line with the HiFiMAN official specifications of 50 ± 8 Ω.
> Let's assume the HE-560 is almost inefficient as the HE-500 as measured by Tyll at Innerfidelity with 2.04 mW to reach 90 dB SPL at 47 Ω, I'll round that to 2.0 mW at the measured 57 Ω.
> 
> 2.0 mW * 2^5 = 64 mW to reach 105 dB SPL
> ...


 
  
 Very interesting.  Thanks for posting your results.  I didn't hear clipping when driving the HE-560s with the C5, just incredibly low volume on high gain.  I was going line out from my Rockbox'd iPod Classic.  I definitely heard clipping with my previous HE-500s.  I'll have to try a wider variety of music, though in reality I'll never use the HE-560s with the C5.


----------



## miceblue

This is a bit random from the current discussion, but is it possible to order a C5D with a lower gain than the stock 2.3x "low gain"?

Right now I have a demo line of Noble Audio's earphones and they're quite sensitive, sensitive enough to be able to hear music even on volume 0, the supposed mute volume. On volume 1, the music is pretty loud for me with near-maximum digital volume. With high gain on, volume 0/mute, I can actually hear background hiss, and the music still, when using the Kaiser 10; interesting.


----------



## ClieOS

miceblue said:


> This is a bit random from the current discussion, but is it possible to order a C5D with a lower gain than the stock 2.3x "low gain"?
> 
> Right now I have a demo line of Noble Audio's earphones and they're quite sensitive, sensitive enough to be able to hear music even on volume 0, the supposed mute volume. On volume 1, the music is pretty loud for me with near-maximum digital volume. With high gain on, volume 0/mute, I can actually hear background hiss, and the music still, when using the Kaiser 10; interesting.


 
  
 Just ask JDS about it and they should be about to customize one for you as the gain is software controlled by the Arduino processor IIRC. If the IEM is indeed super sensitive, you might want negative dB gain.


----------



## palermo

more happy if Jdslabs could provide option several opamp, muses edition, AD edition, etc.
 *I must be dreaming


----------



## MistahBungle

palermo said:


> more happy if Jdslabs could provide option several opamp, muses edition, AD edition, etc.
> 
> *I must be dreaming :rolleyes:




Why ? That would ruin the device (not to mention be a pain in the arse for JDS to manufacture/assemble).

It is what it is because of the way it's been designed & the components that have been selected based on that design philosophy. If you turn it into another Fiio E12 DIY(which I also own & is also a good device, FWIW)/something where you can pick & choose everything that goes into it, it becomes something completely different. I for one very much appreciate the thought that's gone into the design of this device & the end result and how it sounds/performs as a result of that design.


----------



## palermo

mistahbungle said:


> Why ? *That would ruin the device* (not to mention be a pain in the arse for JDS to manufacture/assemble).
> 
> It is what it is because of the way it's been designed & the components that have been selected based on that design philosophy. If you turn it into another Fiio E12 DIY(which I also own & is also a good device, FWIW)/something where you can pick & choose everything that goes into it, it becomes something completely different. I for one very much appreciate the thought that's gone into the design of this device & the end result and how it sounds/performs as a result of that design.


 
 No, I do not to mean it. hehehe.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 just want to a little variation, JDSLabs already did to their product earlier, C421.


----------



## wigglepuff

can you adjust the eq on bass and treble on this?


----------



## Sinik

wigglepuff said:


> can you adjust the eq on bass and treble on this?


 
 No you can't, you can only adjust bass on this. i'm only putting it in the middle because if i put it on the highest gain the bass is just way too much at high volume. i love it on low volume but i love to listen to my music louder


----------



## wigglepuff

you guys probably have the O2amp as well, which one do you guys think would make my philips x1 sound at its best paired with? the o2 amp or the c5d?
  
 I have the e07k and tried the X1 on it and well it sounds good but I haven't been able to compare it with other amps, amps are rare here in my area and the only ones available with prices less then $500 are fiio and jds, the rest are those freak amps that cost more than $2k.


----------



## imackler

I've tried searching the thread but couldn't quite find exactly what I was looking for.
  
 I was on the verge of selling my C5. But then I've returned to both the ER4S and HD600...both for the umpteenth time! I'm kind of hoping that the C5 will work for the HD600. W/ the specs on both the C5 and HD600 being what they are, are they an excellent match? Is there any way that the C5 is inadequate for the HD600? I know many will say subjectively they might prefer another amp, but on paper is there any reason why someone wouldn't pair the C5 with the HD600?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## miceblue

imackler said:


> I've tried searching the thread but couldn't quite find exactly what I was looking for.
> 
> I was on the verge of selling my C5. But then I've returned to both the ER4S and HD600...both for the umpteenth time! I'm kind of hoping that the C5 will work for the HD600. W/ the specs on both the C5 and HD600 being what they are, are they an excellent match? Is there any way that the C5 is inadequate for the HD600? I know many will say subjectively they might prefer another amp, but on paper is there any reason why someone wouldn't pair the C5 with the HD600?
> 
> Thanks!



They're not the same headphone, but I thoroughly enjoyed the iPhone+C5 combo with a friend's HD650.


----------



## mandrake50

imackler said:


> I've tried searching the thread but couldn't quite find exactly what I was looking for.
> 
> I was on the verge of selling my C5. But then I've returned to both the ER4S and HD600...both for the umpteenth time! I'm kind of hoping that the C5 will work for the HD600. W/ the specs on both the C5 and HD600 being what they are, are they an excellent match? Is there any way that the C5 is inadequate for the HD600? I know many will say subjectively they might prefer another amp, but on paper is there any reason why someone wouldn't pair the C5 with the HD600?
> 
> Thanks!


 

 Have you listened to the combination? As you have them, that would be the preferred method of finding out if they work. I would think that if it sounds good to you, the paper part is inconsequential. I use my C5D out of my HTC 1 and even Sansa Fuze (with LOD) to drive either my HD600 and HD650 and it sounds fine to me. I never even looked at the specs. I just plug it in and listen. If it sounds good, then it is good.
  
 On HeadFi you will always find someone that will tell you that there is something "better".  There may be, but, depending on what you like and how you listen "better" or "excellent" may not make any difference to you.
  
 For portable listening, I don't have anything I like better (around 12 portable amps) with my HD600 than the C5D. Hope this helps.


----------



## FiJAAS

Can I charge the C5 with an iPad 2 wall charger?


----------



## ClieOS

fijaas said:


> Can I charge the C5 with an iPad 2 wall charger?


 
  
 Of course you can.


----------



## miceblue

Does the C5D work with iOS 8? Yup, it sure does.


----------



## FiJAAS

Anyone know what happen to ostewart? I planned on buying a sliver lod for the iPod Classic and C5. He said that he makes his own a while back.


----------



## FiJAAS

I also have another question, where can we order extra back plates for the c5?


----------



## ClieOS

fijaas said:


> Anyone know what happen to ostewart? I planned on buying a sliver lod for the iPod Classic and C5. He said that he makes his own a while back.


 
  
 Banned, Let just leave it at that.


fijaas said:


> I also have another question, where can we order extra back plates for the c5?


 
  
 JDS Labs of course.


----------



## Fungus

What's the output impedance of the c5?
 I always thought both the c5 and c5d were the same. 
  
 Has anybody done a  side by side comparison of the c5 and o2 from the same source?
  
 If there isn't a huge difference, I might go with the c5 because of the much more portable form factor. 
 I tried the o2 and is sounded fabulous!


----------



## Fungus

Does anybody know where I can buy this tiny interconnect connector.  
  
 Apparently it can be bought from jds labs with the purchase of the c5 as an option accessory according to a review a read but when I went on the website, it's not listed?


----------



## miceblue

fungus said:


> What's the output impedance of the c5?
> I always thought both the c5 and c5d were the same.
> 
> Has anybody done a  side by side comparison of the c5 and o2 from the same source?
> ...



I made a comparison of the C5/C5 to the O2 in my reviews.
http://www.head-fi.org/products/jds-labs-c5d/reviews/10898


> So in short, the C5D's amp section sounds fairly transparent, carrying a similar sonic signature to the Objective 2 amp. In comparison to the O2, the O2, like the C5, has a larger sense of a soundstage, the instrument separation is better, and the midrange is a bit laid-back in presentation (the C5D's amp brings the midrange a bit forward, so it's more engaging to the listener).




or
http://www.head-fi.org/products/jds-labs-c5-headphone-amplifier/reviews/9198


> Here are my comparisons between the O2 and the C5:
> 
> O2 gives the sense of a larger soundstage with more air between instruments (a school cafeteria); the C5 sounds more boxed-in (a school classroom)
> O2 sounds a bit more dynamic; the C5 sounds a little duller (not boring dull, but instruments don't sound as "full" and don't offer the kind of grand sound you get from the O2)
> ...


----------



## Fungus

miceblue said:


> I made a comparison of the C5/C5 to the O2 in my reviews.
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/jds-labs-c5d/reviews/10898
> or
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/jds-labs-c5-headphone-amplifier/reviews/9198


 
 So the c5d amp section is actually slightly better than the c5 because it doesn't sound as fatiguing. 
  
 Can somebody please confirm if the output impedance of the c5 and c5d are the same.


----------



## miceblue

fungus said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > I made a comparison of the C5/C5 to the O2 in my reviews.
> ...



In my case there is a slight difference but it might be because my C5 is an older unit that had a ~2 Ω output impedance instead of the 0.62 Ω in the newer ones (C5 and C5D alike). Other than that, the amp sections are the same.


----------



## FiJAAS

I'm so happy with the C5. Such a clean and powerful sounding amp.


----------



## Fungus

I just got my c5 I totally agree.  
  
 The only gripe is the background hiss is quite loud when using my um3x.
  
 Is this normal because I heard one of the benefits of the c5 is having a complete black background. 
  
 Another niggle is when I switch it off, I can sometimes hear a pop. I'm concern that it may damage my iems.


----------



## FiJAAS

No hiss or pops here on my end.


----------



## miceblue

fungus said:


> I just got my c5 I totally agree.
> 
> The only gripe is the background hiss is quite loud when using my um3x.
> 
> ...



I only heard a slight hiss with custom in-ear monitors. Other than that, the background hiss should be pretty much non-existent.


----------



## jseaber

fungus said:


> I just got my c5 I totally agree.
> 
> The only gripe is the background hiss is quite loud when using my um3x.
> 
> ...


 
  
 @Fungus: What audio source, and how is volume set at the source and amp? This sounds like a source issue. C5's published noise floor is excellent and should be very quiet with sensitive IEMs, if not inaudible. You may be experiencing a noisy source.
  
 Many portable amps exhibit turn on/off transients. This is normal and will not damage your IEMs. If you're concerned, simply connect the headphones after the amp is switched on.


----------



## jseaber

fungus said:


> Does anybody know where I can buy this tiny interconnect connector.
> 
> Apparently it can be bought from jds labs with the purchase of the c5 as an option accessory according to a review a read but when I went on the website, it's not listed?


 
  
 We have 5000 of these cables in production now. They'll be available soon!


----------



## Fungus

Source is from my sony hd5 via lineout.


----------



## jseaber

fungus said:


> Source is from my sony hd5 via lineout.


 
  
 I'm having trouble finding an exact noise or SNR specification for the Sony HD5. A few searches suggest it's close to 95dB for the line-output, which would be rather noisy for high efficiency IEMs. Please correct me if this is bad information.
  
 Have you tried any other audio sources? What happens if you disconnect the audio input cable and turn volume towards the minimum position? If noise is minimized this way, you have source noise.


----------



## ClieOS

jseaber said:


> We have 5000 of these cables in production now. They'll be available soon!


 
  
 Nice, gonna get myself a pair!


----------



## Fungus

jseaber said:


> I'm having trouble finding an exact noise or SNR specification for the Sony HD5. A few searches suggest it's close to 95dB for the line-output, which would be rather noisy for high efficiency IEMs. Please correct me if this is bad information.
> 
> Have you tried any other audio sources? What happens if you disconnect the audio input cable and turn volume towards the minimum position? If noise is minimized this way, you have source noise.


 
 Yes I tried disconnecting the audio input cable from the source and could still heard the same level of hiss.  
  
 It's definitely the c5, not the source (hd5).


----------



## Fungus

I've had another listening with the volume set to minimum position.
  
 The hiss is quite minimal but is still audible in a quiet environment.
  
 However, when the volume to turned up to iem listening levels with no music player, the hiss is clearly evident.
  
 On the bright side, the hiss doesn't increase a lot more once I turned the volume to maximum. 
  
 This test is done without the source connected, just my um3x connected to the output jack. 
  
 Charging while playing doesn't increase the hiss at all. 
  
 Switching the power off does cause a pop.


----------



## jseaber

fungus said:


> Yes I tried disconnecting the audio input cable from the source and could still heard the same level of hiss.
> 
> It's definitely the c5, not the source (hd5).


 
  
 C5's published noise floor is -107dbV, which is quite low. Highly sensitive IEMs will yield slightly audible hiss with even the best source/amp; a truly black background is nearly impossible with 124 db/mW headphones like UM3X. Still, hiss should be incredibly quiet @ -107dbV . Feel free to email us if you need further inspection.


----------



## skamp

jseaber said:


> a truly black background is nearly impossible with 124 db/mW headphones like UM3X.




I don't understand the point of such ridiculously high sensitivity. It's more of a flaw than anything else.


----------



## Fungus

Ok, I tested the c5 again the background noise is pretty much non existent.  
  
 The reason why I initially found the hissing to be so loud was because it was set to high volume on high gain with no music playing. 
  
 However having said that, I'm still getting the a popping noise ever-time I switch off the amp.


----------



## Fungus

skamp said:


> I don't understand the point of such ridiculously high sensitivity. It's more of a flaw than anything else.


 
 I agree but on the other hand it's useful for testing out the background noise level of equipments.


----------



## skamp

fungus said:


> The reason why I initially found the hissing to be so loud was because it was set to high volume on high gain with no music playing.




You definitely don't want to set the C5 to high gain with those IEMs, _ever_.


----------



## Fungus

skamp said:


> You definitely don't want to set the C5 to high gain with those IEMs, _ever_.


 
 Unless I set the volume position to low. I always prefer listening to my um3x on high gain regardless of the amp. 
  
 It also means I don't have to change back the gain to high when I'm using other headphones that require the power.


----------



## skamp

fungus said:


> Unless I set the volume position to low. I always prefer listening to my um3x on high gain regardless of the amp.




Sorry, but you're doing it wrong. You complain about "quite loud hiss": this is why. High gain with those IEMs will make them sound _worse_, not better.



fungus said:


> It also means I don't have to change back the gain to high when I'm using other headphones that require the power.




I can only imagine the sheer effort required to push a button…


----------



## mandrake50

jseaber said:


> We have 5000 of these cables in production now. They'll be available soon!


 

 If you would post here when they are available, I would appreciate it. This looks just like what I have been looking for.


----------



## jseaber

mandrake50 said:


> If you would post here when they are available, I would appreciate it. This looks just like what I have been looking for.


 
  
 Will do!


----------



## mandrake50

fungus said:


> Unless I set the volume position to low. I always prefer listening to my um3x on high gain regardless of the amp.
> 
> It also means I don't have to change back the gain to high when I'm using other headphones that require the power.


 

 Try low gain and let us know the results.
 I have the C5D and do not notice any background hiss on low gain at max volume settings (no signal) with high sensitivity IEMs.
  
 Not sure why you would worry about having to change a setting when changing among headphones or IEMs... that is why it is there.


----------



## skamp

He did already:



fungus said:


> Ok, I tested the c5 again the background noise is pretty much non existent.
> 
> The reason why I initially found the hissing to be so loud was because it was set to high volume on high gain with no music playing.


----------



## gauchotodd

I just got my C5D and can't get it to work through my LG G3. It's plug and play with the micro-mini USB through my Galaxy Tab, and both are running 4.4.2 (G3 is stock, Tab is a custom ROM, not CM). The only troubleshooting I could think to do was to enable USB debugging and reboot, but that didn't solve it, it still plays through the phone speaker instead of through the C5D.
  
 Also, when playing through my Tab, after a couple songs (~8-10 minutes) I will start to hear a light pop/crackle that gets progressively worse. If I pause it, wait a moment, then resume playback it goes away, and I've noticed it on both gain settings and with or without bass boost. Power indicator is solid green, and is set to BAT... wondering if it may be a lemon?


----------



## Fungus

mandrake50 said:


> I have the C5D and do not notice any background hiss on low gain at max volume settings (no signal) with high sensitivity IEMs.


 
 I've tried switching between low and high again and the level of background hiss is identical. It's mainly when I turn the volume over 10 steps that the hiss increases. When I set the volume to max on both gain setting, I can definitely hear the hiss, not just with my um3x, but with my other full size headphones. 
  
 I find this peculiar since the c5 and objective2 which I also own share the same noise floor rating of -107dBV yet it is clearly evident to my ears that the o2 is much quieter at listening levels. 
  
 I'm not sure if my c5 is defective cos it's just about dead quiet with the volume turned all all the way down yet as I increase the volume to normal listening levels with my highly sensitive um3xs, the hiss level dramatically increases.  
  
 I'm also getting the pop every time the amp is turned off as mentioned before. 
  
 I'm currently contemplating whether I should send it back to get it tested or just ask for an exchange since I bought it from a local shop not far from my home.  
  
 It's a shame cos besides these issues, I'm really enjoying it.


----------



## FiJAAS

I can confirm a slight hiss when I trun the volume up or down with no music playing. Tested with Sennisheiser cx500, ipod classic and fiio l9.


----------



## jseaber

fungus said:


> I've tried switching between low and high again and the level of background hiss is identical. It's mainly when I turn the volume over 10 steps that the hiss increases. When I set the volume to max on both gain setting, I can definitely hear the hiss, not just with my um3x, but with my other full size headphones.
> 
> I find this peculiar since the c5 and objective2 which I also own share the same noise floor rating of -107dBV yet it is clearly evident to my ears that the o2 is much quieter at listening levels.
> 
> ...


 
  
 We'll gladly re-inspect your C5 on our audio analyzer. Turn on/off transients are normal, and it's also normal for hiss to be present with 124db/mW headphones and for that hiss to increase proportionally with volume. Let us know how we can help.


----------



## mandrake50

fijaas said:


> I can confirm a slight hiss when I trun the volume up or down with no music playing. Tested with Sennisheiser cx500, ipod classic and fiio l9.


 

 I wonder if you are not referring to something other than what Fungus is hearing. I thought that he was talking about background "hiss"/noise all of the time. Maybe I am the one not getting it though.
 I just turned my C5D on and plugged in my RE 400s. No source connected as this will isolate any noise to only coming from the C5D.
 I ran the volume to max and back to minimum. While the digital control is tracking I can hear a low sort of clicking sound. It is almost like static, keeping time with the digital volume steps...not what I would call hiss... or any kind of continuous background noise of any kind.
  
 At either extreme of the volume control or anywhere in the middle, once I stopped changing the volume level, there is no detectable noise. The thing, with those IEMs and my ears, had a pitch black noise free background.
  
 Fungus, have you tried to see if your noise is present when the C5 is not connected to anything other than your IEMs ?
  
 If you still hear noise all of the time, I would think about that exchange. You can send it to JDS and I think that they will take care of you. I sent my C5D in for something I messed up. I sent it on Monday and had it back on Friday of the same week. Hard to beat going to a local store and just walking out with a new unit though.


----------



## Fungus

mandrake50 said:


> I wonder if you are not referring to something other than what Fungus is hearing. I thought that he was talking about background "hiss"/noise all of the time. Maybe I am the one not getting it though.
> I just turned my C5D on and plugged in my RE 400s. No source connected as this will isolate any noise to only coming from the C5D.
> I ran the volume to max and back to minimum. While the digital control is tracking I can hear a low sort of clicking sound. It is almost like static, keeping time with the digital volume steps...not what I would call hiss... or any kind of continuous background noise of any kind.
> 
> ...


 
 You're right, I am referring to the continues hiss present in the background, not the digital control tracking click which I also hear. 
  
 I disconnected the source in my testing. 
  
 After jeseaber's response, I'm pretty sure it's normal since I'm using more sensitive iem, 124db/mW.
  
 However, it's strange that at max volume, I can detect hiss even with other non sensitive headphones. 
  
 Are you hearing any hiss out max volume with no music sound playing with your RE 400? 
  
 Having said that, I pretty sure it's normal as jesaber said, for the hiss to increase proportionally with volume. Hiss has always been present with all the portable amp I've owned and tried when set to near max volume. 
  
 I'm just going to enjoy my new c5 and stop worrying.


----------



## FiJAAS

mandrake50 said:


> I wonder if you are not referring to something other than what Fungus is hearing. I thought that he was talking about background "hiss"/noise all of the time. Maybe I am the one not getting it though.
> I just turned my C5D on and plugged in my RE 400s. No source connected as this will isolate any noise to only coming from the C5D.
> I ran the volume to max and back to minimum. While the digital control is tracking I can hear a low sort of clicking sound. It is almost like static, keeping time with the digital volume steps...not what I would call hiss... or any kind of continuous background noise of any kind.
> 
> ...




It could be static instead of hiss, but either way it's a slight noise that's not bothersome. Nothing extreme. I'm not complaining, I love this amp.


----------



## dbdynsty25

gauchotodd said:


> I just got my C5D and can't get it to work through my LG G3. It's plug and play with the micro-mini USB through my Galaxy Tab, and both are running 4.4.2 (G3 is stock, Tab is a custom ROM, not CM). The only troubleshooting I could think to do was to enable USB debugging and reboot, but that didn't solve it, it still plays through the phone speaker instead of through the C5D.
> 
> Also, when playing through my Tab, after a couple songs (~8-10 minutes) I will start to hear a light pop/crackle that gets progressively worse. If I pause it, wait a moment, then resume playback it goes away, and I've noticed it on both gain settings and with or without bass boost. Power indicator is solid green, and is set to BAT... wondering if it may be a lemon?


 
  
 Mine works perfectly w/ my G3.  Just be sure the switch on the back is set to Battery prior to turning it on AFTER connecting it to the G3.  What variant do you have?  Mines the At&t version.


----------



## gauchotodd

dbdynsty25 said:


> Mine works perfectly w/ my G3.  Just be sure the switch on the back is set to Battery prior to turning it on AFTER connecting it to the G3.  What variant do you have?  Mines the At&t version.



Mine is the T-Mo variant, and I've tried every combination of switches on the thing with no luck.


----------



## dbdynsty25

gauchotodd said:


> Mine is the T-Mo variant, and I've tried every combination of switches on the thing with no luck.


 
  
 Works perfect on my Samsung Galaxy Alpha I just got as well...just in case anyone else is wondering.


----------



## gauchotodd

I don't think my issue is with the C5D unit because it works perfectly fine on my desktop and laptop, and I've read other forums with G3 owners able to get USB audio out with other amps and even the C5D as well. The issue with my tablet I think has to do with the ROM since I'm unfamiliar with its source. Gonna try to troubleshoot with LG some time this week.


----------



## shuggs

Hey Gang... just wanted to share this OTG USB cable that I found... took awhile to find a mini-to-micro with right angle plugs for use with my Moto X- quick shipping from Singapore.

  
 http://store.treoo.com/main/right-angle-mini-usb-to-right-angle-micro-usb-otg-interconnect-cable.html


----------



## Semont

Cool find but 20 bucks is quite expensive. I'm using the one that Fiio makes.


----------



## shuggs

semont said:


> Cool find but 20 bucks is quite expensive. I'm using the one that Fiio makes.


 
 standard straight plugs and 'portable' 'on-the-go' are just mutually exclusive to me... worth the extra Hamilton IMHO LOL


----------



## Semont

I just don't see a reason to pay 20 dollars for a cable like that when I can get an equivalent for 5.


----------



## mandrake50

Where?
With 90 degree plugs?

Yeah $20 is too much for me as well for this cable.


----------



## shuggs

Well then... move along


----------



## Fungus

I've been plugging in a straight 1/8 to 1/4 adaptor to use with my grado and the sound keeps getting cut in and out even from the slightest movement. 
  
 However no issues using other headphones with a standard 1/4 jack.


----------



## Fungus

jseaber said:


> We have 5000 of these cables in production now. They'll be available soon!


 

 Are these cables available for sale now? Pricing?


----------



## jseaber

Great


fungus said:


> Are these cables available for sale now? Pricing?


 
  
 Yes, perfect timing! They arrived this morning. The store page is unlisted until photography is complete, but cables can ship immediately:
  
 http://www.jdslabs.com/products/146/ultra-short-35mm-interconnect/


----------



## Fungus

jseaber said:


> Great
> 
> Yes, perfect timing! They arrived this morning. The store page is unlisted until photography is complete, but cables can ship immediately:
> 
> http://www.jdslabs.com/products/146/ultra-short-35mm-interconnect/


 
 Great! How much is shipping to Australia?


----------



## Fungus

fungus said:


> Great! How much is shipping to Australia?


 
 Don't worry, I found out.


----------



## wmedrz

I can't believe how short this cable is. This is the shortest non DIY 3.5mm cable I have seen. 
  
 The plugs look almost as long as the cable!


----------



## FiJAAS

.


----------



## maskapl

Hi all.

I've been going crazy in choosing dac/amp. I really like c5w. My main reason for c5w will be to listen in the train. I'm playing mainly flac files 16 bit/ 44. 
The most annoying thing is, that none of the producers ( expect beuer) are supling dac to iphone cable. 
I have one question, is there a big difference in sound while connecting to c5w via 3.5 jack and via lighting port when playing flac 16/44 ? 

Thank you


----------



## ThurstonX

fijaas said:


> Here's my setup, thanks for the good help!  I'm really happy with this amp!
> 
> Pelican 1020 Micro Case
> Apple iPod Classic 7th Generation
> ...


 
  
 Great set up.  I'm looking at the Pelican cases now, but I'm wondering what that is wrapped around your C5.


----------



## FiJAAS

thurstonx said:


> Great set up.  I'm looking at the Pelican cases now, but I'm wondering what that is wrapped around your C5.




I wrapped my C5 in kitchen self liner. You can order it from Amazon in different colors too. Con-Tact Grip Premium Non-Adhesive Shelf Liner, 12-Inch by 4-Feet, Black. This helps protect the C5 from scratches and dirt. Also, get the shelf liner that is non adhesive and pick one that is not rough. Some shelf kitchen liners are really tough and may scratch your amp. The product I mentioned above earlier is soft to the touch but thick enough to protect my amp. 

I got the idea from zombywoof



zombywoof said:


> I have not heard the C5 with the Vsonic, but someone else probably has this combo and can comment.
> 
> Getting the music from the iPod to the C5 can be accomplished in two ways.  You can use a 3.5 mm >3.5 mm cable.  This takes amplified sound from the iPod headphone out jack, and feeds into the input on the C5 where it is amplified again.  In this arrangement the volume control on the iPod will still be functional, as will the volume control on the amp.  The preferred way, and the way to get the full advantage of the generally superior amplifier in the C5 compared to the amplifier in the iPod, is to use a line out dock cable which is a 30 pin (for docking connector on iPod) > 3.5 mm.  In this arrangement, you will bypass the amplifier on the iPod (the volume control on the iPod will no longer function), and be feeding an unamplified analog signal directly to the C5, taking full advantage of the SQ of the C5.  A photo of my rig is below.  If you are going to go the route of an external amplifier, the small investment (about $10 on Amazon) for the Fiio L9 cable is necessary, in my opinion.  (Just type Fiio L9 in the Amazon search box.)  If you decide to go with the C5, I believe JDS Labs sells the Fiio L9 on their site.
> 
> ...







zombywoof said:


> The material I used is a perforated foam shelf liner that my wife had left over from the kitchen cabinets.  Actually, I believe it is similar to the material identified by H2O, but sold in a roll.  All I did was cut a rectangle the same length as the C5, and with width long enough to wrap completely around the C5.  I wrapped the piece of shelf liner around the C5, temporarily held the ends together with some electrical tape, and placed my iPod on top of the taped side.  With the elastic band in place everything stays together nicely.  Here is another pic that with a better view of the material.
> 
> 
> A happy coincidence that my C5 is red and the shelf liner was red.  One would not want to go out of the house with a portable rig that is not color coordinated.


----------



## ThurstonX

@DTSxJP thanks a lot for the detailed reply.  Very clever using that shelf liner.


----------



## FiJAAS

thurstonx said:


> @DTSxJP
> thanks a lot for the detailed reply.  Very clever using that shelf liner.




No problem good sir.


----------



## jazzfuze

I'm the proud owner of a new Ibasso DX-50. If I feel the need to purchase
 a separate amp I think the JDS amps will be right for me. I can get by with
 the C5 since the DX-50 already has a DAC correct? I wouldn't have to spring
 for the C5D


----------



## Fungus

jazzfuze said:


> I'm the proud owner of a new Ibasso DX-50. If I feel the need to purchase
> a separate amp I think the JDS amps will be right for me. I can get by with
> the C5 since the DX-50 already has a DAC correct? I wouldn't have to spring
> for the C5D


 
 Of course silly. 
 Every dap contains a dac lol


----------



## jazzfuze

fungus said:


> Of course silly.
> Every dap contains a dac lol


 
 Just making sure. I'm tired of returning items to Amazon...


----------



## Gilleron0

Noob question.
I don't know if this has been asked yet, but will a 3.5mm TRRS balanced terminated cable work with the C5D?? I'd like to know as much before I make some decisions. Thanks..


----------



## Mmet

I have ipod touch 5 (IOS 7) when i use c5d with it ... Can i use equalizer apps with c5d's dac ? Or will it skip the equalizer ?


----------



## miceblue

mmet said:


> I have ipod touch 5 (IOS 7) when i use c5d with it ... Can i use equalizer apps with c5d's dac ? Or will it skip the equalizer ?



Good question. I think it should work with EQ apps.

I have the Accudio Pro app and the C5D works just fine with it as a DAC.


----------



## miceblue

Actually I have a question for jseaber regarding amplifier designs. What design challenges are presented when trying to drive earphones with multiple balanced-armature drivers?
I've seen objective measurements done on portable media players with different in-ear earphones and the frequency response almost always turns out differently when driving an earphone with balanced armatures compared to one with dynamic drivers.

Here's one for example:
Dynamic driver
http://rmaa.dfkt.tk/Comparisons/16%20Ohm%20Dynamic%20-%20Samsung%20R0%2C%20Cowon%20J3%2C%20Sony%20A845%2C%20Sansa%20Clip%2B.htm





vs
3x balanced armature drivers
http://rmaa.dfkt.tk/Comparisons/32%20Ohm%20Multi-Armature%20-%20Samsung%20R0%2C%20Sansa%20Clip%2B%2C%20Cowon%20J3%2C%20%20Sony%20A845.htm


----------



## skamp

miceblue: those frequency response variations are typical of high output impedance combined with non-flat impedance curve from the IEMs, which is very common with BA IEMs.

To avoid those variations (which distort the audio), you want to plug them into a headphone out with an output impedance that is lower than 1/8th the impedance of the IEMs. With your 32Ω Shures, that would be 32/8=4Ω.


----------



## wmedrz

gilleron0 said:


> Noob question.
> I don't know if this has been asked yet, but will a 3.5mm TRRS balanced terminated cable work with the C5D?? I'd like to know as much before I make some decisions. Thanks..


 
 If that's the same thing as on the RE600 balanced then no it won't work. Only one channel will play.


----------



## wmedrz

The mini cable came in the mail today. It looks great and is so tiny! I love it. May be a little hard to get in because of the size.


----------



## DrSheep

That's one short interconnect, very cute.


----------



## miceblue

skamp said:


> miceblue: those frequency response variations are typical of high output impedance combined with non-flat impedance curve from the IEMs, which is very common with BA IEMs.
> 
> To avoid those variations (which distort the audio), you want to plug them into a headphone out with an output impedance that is lower than 1/8th the impedance of the IEMs. With your 32Ω Shures, that would be 32/8=4Ω.



Ah I see. The impedance response of balanced armatures do seem pretty funky after looking at some of the measurements from Innerfidelity. Do you know why this happens?


----------



## fluidz

Hey guys,
  
 I recently bought a Fiio E12 to pair with Phonak Pfe232 iem's and an Htc One m7.  The e12 does a great job at expanding the soundstage of the 232's, brings the Mids more forward yet sadly diminishes the beautiful extended treble the 232's are known for.  Listening to Classical music with the E12 takes away the timbre of instruments and that pluck of a string all a sudden sounds compressed.  
  
 The Fiio E12 does a good job at making the sound more enjoyable, but as I listen to music with lots of details I need something better.
  
 So i've been looking at the C5D combo.  Has anybody had any experience with the Phonak pfe 232's and the C5D/C5? Is it a step in the right direction?


----------



## nuvestrahl

Does anyone have experience pairing C5 with sensitive low impedance IEMs? I've been using DX50 with Fidue A83 IEM and while I really like the combo, the background hiss is quite noticeable at lower volumes and quiet parts in tracks. I was wondering if adding a C5 would clean up the sound since the same IEM has a completely black background from my desktop O2D.


----------



## shuggs

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pAgnJDJN4VA

Pretty much what it was designed for I believe...
"C5 is built for portable users who need a small amp with USB recharging, exceptionally low noise, sufficient output power, long battery life, and most importantly, a super fine volume control to handle sensitive headphones and IEMs."


----------



## nuvestrahl

Well, I suppose. But it's always better to hear from users than trust marketing talk. ^^


----------



## ClieOS

Just placed the order for some ultra short IC.


----------



## jseaber

nuvestrahl said:


> Well, I suppose. But it's always better to hear from users than trust marketing talk. ^^


 
  
 Heh, I am personally responsible for every product specification and description. I wrote the C5 description in 2013 to convey the amplifier's intended usage. Around its Feb 2013 release, a few people assumed C5 would easily drive orthodynamics. The lengthy release article explained that was not a feasible goal for C5, but not everyone takes the time to read my essays. Hey, I understand. Who has time to find and read an engineer's 10 page product report? Anyway, I slightly revised the description after release to be as accurate and as concise at possible. Accurate claims keep people happy. Why disappoint?
  


miceblue said:


> Actually I have a question for @jseaber regarding amplifier designs. What design challenges are presented when trying to drive earphones with multiple balanced-armature drivers?
> I've seen objective measurements done on portable media players with different in-ear earphones and the frequency response almost always turns out differently when driving an earphone with balanced armatures compared to one with dynamic drivers.
> 
> Here's one for example:.......


  

@miceblue: skamp is correct. Balanced armatures have particularly wide impedance fluctuations. Low output impedance is critical here. As with other highly efficient drivers, it's also important to minimize Noise.


----------



## mandrake50

jseaber said:


> Heh, I am personally responsible for every product specification and description. I wrote the C5 description in 2013 to convey the amplifier's intended usage. Around its Feb 2013 release, a few people assumed C5 would easily drive orthodynamics. The lengthy release article explained that was not a feasible goal for C5, but not everyone takes the time to read my essays. Hey, I understand. Who has time to find and read an engineer's 10 page product report? Anyway, I slightly revised the description after release to be as accurate and as concise at possible. Accurate claims keep people happy. Why disappoint?
> 
> @miceblue: skamp is correct. Balanced armatures have particularly wide impedance fluctuations. Low output impedance is critical here. As with other highly efficient drivers, it's also important to minimize Noise.


 

  Interesting. I use my C5D with both the Hifiman 400 and 400i. Now I don't sit and seriously pick apart the sound, this is for "sort of" portable use around the house and yard. The C5D seems to do a quite adequate, if not very good job in that role. Of course, both the 400 and 400i are considered to be relatively easy to drive for planars.  If we are talking HE 6, I can see why you would say it may be a no go.


----------



## ThurstonX

mandrake50 said:


> Interesting. I use my C5D with both the Hifiman 400 and 400i. Now I don't sit and seriously pick apart the sound, this is for "sort of" portable use around the house and yard. The C5D seems to do a quite adequate, if not very good job in that role. Of course, both the 400 and 400i are considered to be relatively easy to drive for planars.  If we are talking HE 6, I can see why you would say it may be a no go.


 
  
 +1, adding my ~34-ohm HE-500s to the list.  Like you, not picking apart the sound, but in occasional sessions I'm always pleased with my C5.  Usually it's from a Rockbox'd iPod Classic, which has a nice DAC.  With the HE-560s OTOH, no way, but then they're right around 50 ohms and consistently take my Lyr to noon and beyond on the volume knob.


----------



## Fungus

It's unfortunate that when the my c5 is set on max on high gain, the treble distort quite badly. 
 It clear stuggles to drive my hd25 with a sensitivity of 120dB to high volumes.


----------



## miceblue

fungus said:


> It's unfortunate that when the my c5 is set on max on high gain, the treble distort quite badly.
> It clear stuggles to drive my hd25 with a sensitivity of 120dB to high volumes.



Innerfidelity measured the HD25-II to require 0.04 mW of power to reach 90 dB SPL at 74 ohms. The C5 should have absolutely no problem driving that. From here, the C5 outputs about 60 mW of power at 62 ohms.

Why are you setting the volume level to maximum on high gain anyway? Are you purposely trying to make yourself deaf? o.0


----------



## Fungus

miceblue said:


> Innerfidelity measured the HD25-II to require 0.04 mW of power to reach 90 dB SPL at 74 ohms. The C5 should have absolutely no problem driving that. From here, the C5 outputs about 60 mW of power at 62 ohms.
> 
> Why are you setting the volume level to maximum on high gain anyway? Are you purposely trying to make yourself deaf? o.0


 
 No, they are at 600 ohm but the sensitivity is 120 dB which should be very efficient. 
 On max setting, I find some tracks aren't loud enough particular even in a noise free environment.
 It's only about 20% louder than playing directly off my phone.  
 I guess the c5 doesn't provide a whole lot more voltage than most standard daps.


----------



## miceblue

fungus said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > Innerfidelity measured the HD25-II to require 0.04 mW of power to reach 90 dB SPL at 74 ohms. The C5 should have absolutely no problem driving that. From here, the C5 outputs about 60 mW of power at 62 ohms.
> ...



That is very strange.

The C5 drives my 669-ohm AKG K240 Monitor just fine even with DR18 music, and the K240 M is rated at 88 dB/mW of power. I think it's pretty much impossible to have a headphone with a sensitivity value of 120 db/mW as even in-ear earphones don't accomplish that to my knowledge. I certainly have PLENTY of volume left to spare on the C5 with the iPhone line out (as in I get plenty of volume at volume level 11/63 with low gain) compared to straight out of my iPhone, which basically runs at >50% volume.

What's your source/DAC? Maybe it doesn't produce enough voltage for the C5 to amplify.


----------



## Fungus

miceblue said:


> That is very strange.
> 
> The C5 drives my 669-ohm AKG K240 Monitor just fine even with DR18 music, and the K240 M is rated at 88 dB/mW of power. I think it's pretty much impossible to have a headphone with a sensitivity value of 120 db/mW as even in-ear earphones don't accomplish that to my knowledge. I certainly have PLENTY of volume left to spare on the C5 with the iPhone line out (as in I get plenty of volume at volume level 11/63 with low gain) compared to straight out of my iPhone, which basically runs at >50% volume.
> 
> What's your source/DAC? Maybe it doesn't produce enough voltage for the C5 to amplify.


 
 I double checked and the hd25 definitely have a sensitivity value of 120dB.


----------



## miceblue

fungus said:


> I double checked and the hd25 definitely have a sensitivity value of 120dB.



Hm, it seems that it's probably 120 dB SPL per volt not per milliwatt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headphones#Sensitivity
http://www.canford.co.uk/Products/54-176_SENNHEISER-HD-25-13-II-HEADPHONES-600-ohms
http://www.head-fi.org/t/574617/review-comparison-beyerdynamic-dt1350-t50p-sennheiser-hd25-1-ii-hd25-13-ii-pioneer-hdj-2000-v-moda-m80-aiaiai-tma-1
or ~108.45 db @1mW, which seems much more reasonable for a headphone.

In any case, the C5 should be just fine for driving that load since it can output 4.146 VRMS at 600 ohms as specified by JDS Labs, or 28.6 mW.

What's your DAC/source?


----------



## Fungus

I'm using a sony hd5 via line out.
 I'm guessing a typical dap like such as an ipod outputs around 16-20 mW.


----------



## qsk78

Here is  my setup: Fiio X5 MM + JDS Labs C5 + Sony XBA-H3 + Litz (Cu) 250
HS6 kit from Fiio works well for this combo.
SQ: neutral sound with much better clarity, faster and better controlled lows. Bass is really what I enjoy the most out of the C5.


----------



## mandrake50

That looks real nice!
  
 Can you tell me where you got that short "Litz (Cu) 250" cable? How long is it? I have been looking for a short cable like that.  Most of the ones I see are 15 cm or so. Too long! I asked a guy to make me one that is 10 cm between the center of the plugs. Still not sure if that will get it. Waiting to get the cable to see. The one you show in the pictures looks just about perfect.
  
 I will be using the same setup that you are.
  
 THX


----------



## qsk78

mandrake50 said:


> That looks real nice!
> 
> Can you tell me where you got that short "Litz (Cu) 250" cable? How long is it? I have been looking for a short cable like that.  Most of the ones I see are 15 cm or so. Too long! I asked a guy to make me one that is 10 cm between the center of the plugs. Still not sure if that will get it. Waiting to get the cable to see. The one you show in the pictures looks just about perfect.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, the short one is a silver plated copper ~ 5 cm I think. The Litz 250 is the IEM cable.
 I bought it here http://hybridaudio.ru/photo/CID_82.html. This is in Moscow. That was around 70 USD.
  
 You may also purchase the Fiio HS6 kit which includes a very short silver plated cable like this:


----------



## AladdinSane

JDS Labs is making their own shorties too: http://www.jdslabs.com/products/146/ultra-short-3-5mm-interconnect-cable/


----------



## mandrake50

qsk78 said:


> Well, the short one is a silver plated copper ~ 5 cm I think. The Litz 250 is the IEM cable.
> I bought it here http://hybridaudio.ru/photo/CID_82.html. This is in Moscow. That was around 70 USD.
> 
> You may also purchase the Fiio HS6 kit which includes a very short silver plated cable.




Thanks for that. I did order the FiiO kit, but really wanted the 90 degree connectors.
Unfortunately the web page you refer to is in Russian, as would be normal for a business in Moscow...
But I can't read it to do anything and Google translate is not working for that page.

I do appreciate the reply though!


----------



## ocelot2500

mandrake50 said:


> Thanks for that. I did order the FiiO kit, but really wanted the 90 degree connectors.
> Unfortunately the web page you refer to is in Russian, as would be normal for a business in Moscow...
> But I can't read it to do anything and Google translate is not working for that page.
> 
> I do appreciate the reply though!


 
  
 If you want an interconnect cable you can customize, try BTG-Audio.  I ordered my cables from there, and it worked out great for me.  The prices are reasonable as well, a three to six inch mini-mini cable will be less than $40.


----------



## mandrake50

ocelot2500 said:


> If you want an interconnect cable you can customize, try BTG-Audio.  I ordered my cables from there, and it worked out great for me.  The prices are reasonable as well, a three to six inch mini-mini cable will be less than $40.




Thanks!
I ordered a cable from BTG-Audio. 3 inch, 4 strand SPC, sleeving, the cut down 90 degree connectors. It was right at $50 shipped. 
He did not seem to offer 8 strand in that length. 

ocelot2500 thanks again for the pointer. I will keep them in mind for future cable purchases.


----------



## ocelot2500

mandrake50 said:


> Thanks!
> I ordered a cable from BTG-Audio. 3 inch, 4 strand SPC, sleeving, the cut down 90 degree connectors. It was right at $50 shipped.
> He did not seem to offer 8 strand in that length.
> 
> ocelot2500 thanks again for the pointer. I will keep them in mind for future cable purchases.


 
  Glad I could help.


----------



## worminater

Reporting in; just hooked up a new c5d to my OnePlusOne and Shure s8s as a portable rig.   Everything seems to be working well; CM11 USB DAC support seems excellent here.   The C5D is *almost* silent with my s8s; but better than anything else I have I think. I had concerns on minimum volume until I found.. 
  
 Quote:


ostewart said:


> Push the volume rocker in to change the gain.


 
 I know I'm going back a bit; but thanks  I think i'm going to like this thing.  
  
  
 *Update*
  
  
 With my S8s, after ~30 minutes connected via USB to my OPO, it develops a wierd 'tick' in tune with the music, like whenever a certain note is hit, almost a fluttering.  If i unplug my 846s and plug in my AKGs, the tick isn't noticeable.  I don't notice it at all after a few hours of use my my laptop; so it seems to be something to do with my phone?  I'll update this thread with finding once I have time to root and install V4A...
  
 -Chris


----------



## qsk78

Does anybody know if the C5D is compatible with new Sony players NWZ-A10, A17?


----------



## MusicFiMan

qsk78 said:


> Well, the short one is a silver plated copper ~ 5 cm I think. The Litz 250 is the IEM cable.
> I bought it here http://hybridaudio.ru/photo/CID_82.html. This is in Moscow. That was around 70 USD.
> 
> You may also purchase the Fiio HS6 kit which includes a very short silver plated cable like this:


 
  
  
  
  
 HI,
 I found this  via Aliexpress : http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fiio-L16-Professional-3-5mm-Stereo-Audio-Cable/2042519205.html
 you think its legit and the real thing?  it is 15 D with free shipping


----------



## qsk78

musicfiman said:


> HI,
> I found this  via Aliexpress : http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fiio-L16-Professional-3-5mm-Stereo-Audio-Cable/2042519205.html
> you think its legit and the real thing?  it is 15 D with free shipping


 
 Looks like real. But it makes sense to buy a full kit HS6 from Fiio if you have their X5 DAP which includes: 
  

4 x Silicone band
6 x Rubber feet
1 x Sticking frame
1 x 3.5-3.5mm audio interconnect cable ( here they call it HPC-23TN, should be the same as L16  I guess)

 http://www.mp4nation.net/fiio-hs6-stacking-kit-for-fiio-x5


----------



## MusicFiMan

I have the DX50 and the C5 is on the way...


----------



## qsk78

musicfiman said:


> I have the DX50 and the C5 is on the way...


 
 Should be a good match size wise, at least...  
 My X5 is much bigger that the C5 and they look strange together


----------



## Gundud

Anyone using C5D with er4PT? How's that sound to you?


----------



## jonvply908

Could use some opinions:

 Looking for a new dac/amp, and the C5D seems to look pretty good. I'm planning on using it for Android which I know can have pretty hit or miss usage via OTG. Just wanted to ask what the opinions of the C5D are, because this would most likely be the unit I'll be using for a good while, and I'm debating between staying in budget or going over budget just a bit to get the C5D.

 Current source is a Moto X 2013, potentially buying something new soon though (Moto X 2014, Xperia Z3v, Nexus 6).


----------



## Semont

Quote:


jonvply908 said:


> Could use some opinions:
> 
> Looking for a new dac/amp, and the C5D seems to look pretty good. I'm planning on using it for Android which I know can have pretty hit or miss usage via OTG. Just wanted to ask what the opinions of the C5D are, because this would most likely be the unit I'll be using for a good while, and I'm debating between staying in budget or going over budget just a bit to get the C5D.
> 
> Current source is a Moto X 2013, potentially buying something new soon though (Moto X 2014, Xperia Z3v, Nexus 6).


 
  
 All I can say is that there are two types of people who would use an OTG usb portable dac/amp with an android phone.
  
 People who know their version can support usb output or people who are willing to flash custom roms on their phones.
  
 I ended up being the latter. I know that android L is going to support usb output and since you're thinking of getting a new phone soon it really shouldn't be a problem.
  
 Honestly, it's pretty tough to actually hear a difference between amps. All I can say is that if it works and it sounds good, then you can really go as cheap as you want. You're only going to be bringing one with you anyways. All in all, for solid state devices, a dac is meant to decode and output a clean analog signal while an amp merely provides enough power to drive the drivers.
  
 The C5D is pretty reliable and the interface is pretty simple to use. All the controls for playback are located on one side and it's quite easy to change gain and adjust the bass booster. I've never had an issue with rubbing the volume gain against anything before so that's also a plus. I find that when I have an amp with me, I never have to take out my phone to change volume or tracks because it's all physically there on the amp and I can change tracks by holding vol+ or vol-. Makes it a bit safer since you don't present your devices as often to potential thieves.
  
 People have said that the Fiio amps make the sound a little warmer compared to the C5D which is considered neutral (or transparent as they all love to call it) but I personally don't notice a difference.
  
 One thing I have noticed with the C5D has to do with the bass booster though. If you simply use the line in and then flick the bass booster. It seems to boost mid bass more instead which can make your music sound muddier. If you use the usb input and then flick the bass booster, the bass boost is noticeably better. The low bass boost provides a nice boost to sub bass while the high bass boost adds more sub bass and some mid bass as well but not so much as to add mud to your bass.
  
 Also what headphones are you using? If you use a portable headphone, chances are they can be driven by your phone. The only reason you'd want a dac amp is if you notice noise in the background which is very apparent in highly sensitive headphones and a large majority of earphones.


----------



## jonvply908

semont said:


> Quote:
> 
> All I can say is that there are two types of people who would use an OTG usb portable dac/amp with an android phone.
> 
> ...




I am currently using DT 1350s from Beyerdynamic and will have 1964ears V6 stage ciems.


----------



## Semont

jonvply908 said:


> I am currently using DT 1350s from Beyerdynamic and will have 1964ears V6 stage ciems.


 
  
 It'll work.
  
 While the C5D won't do too much for your Beyers, phone output is generally noisy for IEMs so it WILL cut down a lot of background noise. If you have a local shop that sells the C5D, I'd recommend giving it a try and especially other portable amps as well. Ask to use an OTG cable with your phone and slip it in your pocket to get a feel of how it operates.


----------



## jonvply908

semont said:


> It'll work.
> 
> While the C5D won't do too much for your Beyers, phone output is generally noisy for IEMs so it WILL cut down a lot of background noise. If you have a local shop that sells the C5D, I'd recommend giving it a try and especially other portable amps as well. Ask to use an OTG cable with your phone and slip it in your pocket to get a feel of how it operates.


 
 I'll have to look around. I'm in So Cal, so I'm bound to be able to find at least one place. I know every person is different, but would you say a 250 dollar investment in the C5D is worth it if it's mostly for the V6 Stage?


----------



## Semont

jonvply908 said:


> I'll have to look around. I'm in So Cal, so I'm bound to be able to find at least one place. I know every person is different, but would you say a 250 dollar investment in the C5D is worth it if it's mostly for the V6 Stage?


 
  
 I don't think you'd notice a difference in terms of amping. A Fiio E18 could probably do the job just as well. If you have the chance to try out both, try and see how much noise either of them produce.


----------



## jonvply908

semont said:


> I don't think you'd notice a difference in terms of amping. A Fiio E18 could probably do the job just as well. If you have the chance to try out both, try and see how much noise either of them produce.


 
 I'm actually finding it quite hard to find a place in LA that might still have stuff to demo. Oh well, guess I'll just have to make the decision


----------



## Semont

jonvply908 said:


> I'm actually finding it quite hard to find a place in LA that might still have stuff to demo. Oh well, guess I'll just have to make the decision


 
 Buy both from online retailer and return the one you don't want?
  
 If you're only powering those two portables, you might want to check specs and go with the with lower power output.
  
 Gain is a lot easier to adjust that way.


----------



## FiJAAS

Do anyone use the Shure SE215 with the JDS Labs C5? If so could I have your input on them? I have the Audio Technicas ATH-IM50 and I'm not happy with them so I'm looking at other IEM and the SE215 are first up on my list.


----------



## Semont

On low gain, they cut down a lot noise interference. It's quite a noticeable difference even when I'm in a noisy environment like a bus.
  
 Other than that, they sound pretty much the same. Don't let that fool you though; being able to finely adjust your gain is a massive benefit where as the volume control on phones have rather large gaps it's hard to find a volume that is comfortable for everyone.


----------



## FiJAAS

fijaas said:


> Do anyone use the Shure SE215 with the JDS Labs C5? If so could I have your input on them? I have the Audio Technicas ATH-IM50 and I'm not happy with them so I'm looking at other IEM and the SE215 are first up on my list.




Any help? Would like to know before I make a purchase.


----------



## Semont

fijaas said:


> Any help? Would like to know before I make a purchase.


 

 I replied.
  
 You should really check before posting lol.


----------



## FiJAAS

semont said:


> I replied.
> 
> You should really check before posting lol.




Didn't get a quote notification, my bad.


----------



## Fungus

fijaas said:


> Do anyone use the Shure SE215 with the JDS Labs C5? If so could I have your input on them? I have the Audio Technicas ATH-IM50 and I'm not happy with them so I'm looking at other IEM and the SE215 are first up on my list.


 
 I don't think it's worth spending on an amp that costs more than the iem itself.
 Why not spend the money on upgrading to the SE425.
 SE425 & phone > SE215 with C5/D & phone
 Much better value for money.


----------



## FiJAAS

fungus said:


> I don't think it's worth spending on an amp that costs more than the iem itself.
> Why not spend the money on upgrading to the SE425.
> SE425 & phone > SE215 with C5/D & phone
> Much better value for money.




The SE425 is too expensive. I'm willing to look at the SE315. Hiw is the sound on those?


----------



## Fungus

fijaas said:


> The SE425 is too expensive. I'm willing to look at the SE315. Hiw is the sound on those?


 
 It's the same price as the SE215 and c5 combined. 
 Then wait for a good deal on a used pair. I got my SE425 for $100.
 Sorry about I've never listening to the SE315 so can't comment but probably not worth it. It's just got a single BA driver.


----------



## dbdynsty25

jonvply908 said:


> Current source is a Moto X 2013, potentially buying something new soon though (Moto X 2014, Xperia Z3v, Nexus 6).


 
  
 The last four or five phones I've tried have all worked fine with OTG and the C5D.  Moto X 2014, Xperia Z3 Compact, OnePlus One, Galaxy Alpha are the most recent, and all have worked without custom software.  I'm trying to remember if my Moto X 2013 worked...I know the Nexus 5 DID NOT (at least when I had it at the beginning of the year).  
  
 Android L should fix all that going forward either way, unless manufacturers cook their software.


----------



## shuggs

MotoX 2013 does work...


----------



## punish

Hi,
  
 I recently bought a C5D. I love how it sounds, and how well it pairs sonically with my e-q5s. These are sensitive earphones, so the blackest of backgrounds is very, very welcome.
  
 I'm pairing it with a Sony Xperia Z1. Very occasionally I've been noticing crackles and pops. I haven't noticed those in the music before, including with my desktop setup.
  
 I was wondering what might be the possible cause. Is it because I'm stacking them and my phone is interfering?


----------



## gauchotodd

punish said:


> I was wondering what might be the possible cause.


 
 When I first got my C5D, my LG G3 wasn't giving it USB audio out (even though others with the same model weren't having this issue), and my Galaxy Tab running custom software would work but make popping/crackling sounds after ~8 minutes or so until I paused it then started playing again. The C5D worked fine through USB connection to my desktop and laptop, so I think it was an issue with the software/audio driver. I ended up getting JDS's short 3.5mm cable and using that instead of USB and now it works great.


----------



## punish

Thanks for your reply, I'm not sure we are having the same problem though.
  
 My phone, the xperia z1 natively supports usb OTG.
  
 By and large the output is fine, but occasionally and apparently randomly I hear some jitter, or some very faint single "pop" sounds. They sound like very faint and quick snare drum taps.
  
 I'm not sure exactly what component is causing this. I've never heard it on my desktop setup, or mac>c5d, and I don't really recall hearing it when I use the headphone out, either.
  
 I haven't ruled out that its my re-soldered e-q5s either. But as you all know, once you hear these kinds of things its hard to ignore and it becomes all you focus on!
  
 Will keep experimenting. But as far as I know, if you use aux, it won't bypass the internal dac/amp? Such that there is limited benefit from using the c5d off the phone


----------



## gauchotodd

My G3 should support USB out also, so not sure what the issue is there. But I've noticed no difference in audio quality from the C5D via USB on Windows and via 3.5mm on the G3 or the iPhone5 I've been using it with. While you may have a different issue, I would still try testing the 3.5mm port to see how that does. I'd assume the C5D to be the least likely piece to be causing the noise.


----------



## punish

I'm in the office now and testing the combo "unstacked", wifi off. It seems like the problems are gone. Will let you know more after further testing
  
 edit: seems to be back. quite perplexed now. I don't have an aux cable on me to test 3.5 to 3.5, but I will try it. Hopefully someone can elaborate how the phone and amp interact when its aux? my thinking is it acts just as a double amp


----------



## Semont

punish said:


> I'm in the office now and testing the combo "unstacked", wifi off. It seems like the problems are gone. Will let you know more after further testing
> 
> edit: seems to be back. quite perplexed now. I don't have an aux cable on me to test 3.5 to 3.5, but I will try it. Hopefully someone can elaborate how the phone and amp interact when its aux? my thinking is it acts just as a double amp




Contact your retailer and ask for an exchange?


----------



## punish

I definitely want to do more testing first. When I get home I'll do some really rigorous listening off my macbook>c5d with the same songs. Might also wait for my second pair of e-q5s to arrive first before making a judgement!
  
 UPDATE: definitely not a problem with the amp itself. Some jitters exist in the music itself (somehow sound louder off the c5d) and possibly issue with my interconnect.
 Everything else I have seems broken - mac VLC flac playback gives me some crackle for a good 10 seconds at the start of each playback...


----------



## MusicFiMan

The new JDS C5 joined the party, great sound


----------



## m50man

What are your opinions on the c5d compared to the FIIO E17.  I am wondering if I should upgrade for my AKG K712 pro's.  Also wondering about how it stacks up to ALO the Island.


----------



## slackerpo

m50man said:


> What are your opinions on the c5d compared to the FIIO E17.  I am wondering if I should upgrade for my AKG K712 pro's.  Also wondering about how it stacks up to ALO the Island.


 
  
 i would go with the c5d all the way.


----------



## miceblue

slackerpo said:


> m50man said:
> 
> 
> > What are your opinions on the c5d compared to the FIIO E17.  I am wondering if I should upgrade for my AKG K712 pro's.  Also wondering about how it stacks up to ALO the Island.
> ...



Yup I concur. I didn't like the E17 with my K 701 at all compared to the C5D. The C5D sounds much cleaner and articulate, more airy, and fairly smooth in the treble and upper-mids.


----------



## m50man

Interesting.. I am considering it since I have heard good things.  Still on the fence though because I may be considering a desktop unit (seeing as how using the c5d with my iPod wouldn't even convert the audio it would really just be amping the headphones right?).  It might be worth it to spend a couple hundred more to get even better quality if I'm mostly going to be needing the DAC functioning at home


----------



## Nec3

radiohead7 said:


> In order to get the C5D for an extra low price MassDrop has it on this site we just need 67 more requests to start the drop.
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/jds-labs-c5d-portable-dac-amp?s=c5
> I think it might drop the price down to $200


 


 I wouldn't do that if I were you.


----------



## radiohead7

I


nec3 said:


> I wouldn't do that if I were you.


 
 Why not?


----------



## ThurstonX

nec3 said:


> I wouldn't do that if I were you.


 
  


radiohead7 said:


> I
> Why not?


 
  
 Unless something changed, that site to which you refer is verboten 'round here.


----------



## m50man

How is this unit compared to a FIIO E17?  I am finding the E17 to be lacking on clarity, depth, soundstage etc on my AKG K712 pro's.  
  
 I am also interested in how this unit also compares to ALO the Island or even a desktop combo such as Asgard 2 + Bifrost


----------



## worminater

m50man said:


> How is this unit compared to a FIIO E17?  I am finding the E17 to be lacking on clarity, depth, soundstage etc on my AKG K712 pro's.
> 
> I am also interested in how this unit also compares to ALO the Island or even a desktop combo such as Asgard 2 + Bifrost


 
  
 Not sure on power; but I've found the c5d works much better as amp xor dac with my se846s than  my E17. Specifically, noise floor was unbearable for me to even try them long enough to draw sound quality comparisons. (c5d *almost* silent).
  
 -Chris


----------



## jseaber

JDS Labs products have been banned from group buy sites since earlier this year. From a manufacturer's perspective, group buys are a really, really poor deal in the long term (the kind that puts businesses out of business).


----------



## py61

I love this amp, but 11 hours work time is poor.


----------



## Semont

It would be great if John provided a list of compatible batteries that would extend the battery life of the C5D.


----------



## shuggs

should I be seeing light between case and endplate?

 just worried about dust and moisture getting in...


----------



## qsk78

py61 said:


> I love this amp, but 11 hours work time is poor.


 
 More capacity battery - more weight - bigger size.


----------



## Semont

qsk78 said:


> More capacity battery - more weight - bigger size.




I wouldn't mind a larger c5d. Most android phones are increasing in size all across the spectrum anyways.


----------



## wmedrz

shuggs said:


> should I be seeing light between case and endplate?
> 
> just worried about dust and moisture getting in...


 
 I had the same thing. When I took the face plate off I noticed tiny shards of metal sticking out of the holes where the screws go in. I filed them down to be smooth and the face plate is perfectly flush now.


----------



## qsk78

After one month of usage, what can I shortly tell about the C5?
  
 Pros:

build quality
detailed clean sound
fast, tight and very well controlled bass on my H3
neutral
instrument separation
makes XBA-H3 sound more openly and airy on highs
a good pair with the X5 MM
  
 Cons:

Gain switch combined with Volume.
 I switch it occasionally from low to high very often. A separate switch\knob\button would be much better.

Battery life could be longer/higher capacity.
  My X5 from line-out works for 16-18 hours. C5 works for 10-12 h.

I still cannot understand if I really like a mid-forwarded sound or not.  
Soundstage could be wider
  
 To me the C5 has a great value for its price.


----------



## Fungus

qsk78 said:


> After one month of usage, what can I shortly tell about the C5?
> 
> Pros:
> 
> ...


 
 more like for any price


----------



## Fungus

I don't know why some people are complaining about the 11 hrs of battery life not being enough. As long as the battery doesn't deplete during one day of use, I'm happy. I don't think anybody will be using the c5 for more than 11 hours a day. It's not hard to plug it into a usb charger over night. One of the benefits to the c5 is having a slim and portable form factor. Adding more bulk to accommodate a large battery is just plain silly when 11 hours is more than enough for must users. 
 Plus since the faceplate can easily be removed to allow easy access the the battery, it's pretty easy to replace one with a higher capacity. I know of people who have already done this.  
 One thing I do agree is it's difficult to change from high to low gain by pressing on the volume wheel. A lot of time when I try to press the volume wheel down, nothing happens and have to retry a few times at the right angel to work. The only why I can tell if I'm on high or low gain is by listening to the amount of background hiss and volume. The volume doubling as a gain switch just feels a bit flimsy.


----------



## Dickyb25

My C5D with custom engraving is in the mail. I will post pics as soon as it arrives.


----------



## qsk78

Does anyone know how our C5 sounds in comparison with Vorzuge VorzAMP Pure II?


----------



## Mmet

qsk78 said:


>


 
 +1 this is a good question


----------



## punish

not sure if anyone cares, but after a good week of testing I isolated the issue to my phone having a dirty output signal, and mac VLC screwing with FLACs.
  
 Based on that, got absolutely nothing to complain about the c5d. Sounds really fantastic at a great price.
  
 My only regret is not getting engraving...


----------



## shuggs

You can buy a new case for $16 w/ free engraving!


----------



## Smurfs2010

shuggs said:


> You can buy a new case for $16 w/ free engraving!


 
 No way!  I have the boring JDS Labs on mine.


----------



## shuggs

smurfs2010 said:


> No way!  I have the boring JDS Labs on mine.


 
 Way!  
  
 http://www.jdslabs.com/products/80/aluminum-case-for-c5-or-odac/
  
 you'll see engrave option when you 'add to cart'


----------



## Smurfs2010

shuggs said:


> Way!
> 
> http://www.jdslabs.com/products/80/aluminum-case-for-c5-or-odac/
> 
> you'll see engrave option when you 'add to cart'


 
 I have it all set in my shopping cart but I am unable to view the pic on the unit.  I don't want to get the unit with the pic not as I expect it.  I wish the ordering screen had a better viewing option.  What to do.....?


----------



## Dickyb25

My C5D is here and it's stunning

And sounds amazing, thank you JDS Labs


----------



## Mmet

dickyb25 said:


> My C5D is here and it's stunning
> 
> And sounds amazing, thank you JDS Labs


 
 WOW ..... impressions .. impressions PLEASE .. as i intend to make a similar set up already ... and from your profile photo i think we have similar iems too .. congratulations dude


----------



## jseaber

wmedrz said:


> I had the same thing. When I took the face plate off I noticed tiny shards of metal sticking out of the holes where the screws go in. I filed them down to be smooth and the face plate is perfectly flush now.


 
  
 This production method was replaced earlier this year. All drill holes are now deburred on both sides.
  
 @shuggs: I don't think that is normal with the newest production. If the unit was purchased recently and direct from JDS Labs, please email and we'll be glad to exchange.
  
  


semont said:


> It would be great if John provided a list of compatible batteries that would extend the battery life of the C5D.


 
  
 The battery shipping in C5 and C5D is the highest capacity for the available enclosure space. Part numbers are CS-IPOD4HL and CS-JDC421SL.
  
 C5 and C5D sacrifice battery run time for cleaner power supply rails.


----------



## wmedrz

jseaber said:


> This production method was replaced earlier this year. All drill holes are now deburred on both sides.


 
 Mine was bought about 4 months ago. Maybe one off. Didn't bother me in the slightest.


----------



## shuggs

quick fix to get flush fit... Mahalo!


----------



## fluidz

I was using a fiio e12 with phonak pfe232 and found that whilst is helped boost the low end and give the sound more body, detail was lost in the highs and there was a sibilance at high volumes with some tracks. I sold the e12 and now wondering if a c5d is the way to go. I'll be using it with the grey filters. Also would the c5d offer better sq than iphone 6 can pump out or wouldn't there be much difference?


----------



## joey99

Is it true that only the A$39 apple lightning/usb camera cable works for the C5D for the DAC to work?
 I'm about to get the C5D and that long cable concerns me when I want to take it out .....
  
 Has anyone tried these cheap lightning to micro usb ? so these will not work?
 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/8-Pins-Lightning-to-Micro-USB-Adapter-for-Apple-iPhone-5-/111142463892?pt=AU_MobilePhoneAccessories&hash=item19e09b6994


----------



## Koolpep

joey99 said:


> Is it true that only the A$39 apple lightning/usb camera cable works for the C5D for the DAC to work?
> I'm about to get the C5D and that long cable concerns me when I want to take it out .....
> 
> Has anyone tried these cheap lightning to micro usb ? so these will not work?
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/8-Pins-Lightning-to-Micro-USB-Adapter-for-Apple-iPhone-5-/111142463892?pt=AU_MobilePhoneAccessories&hash=item19e09b6994


 

 No this cable won't work. The C5D has a mini USB connection (not micro USB) - you can get short cables - see attached.
  
 Also, you can find this piece of information on the JDS Labs website:
 Quote:
One might expect that Apple’s Lightning to Micro USB adapter (MD820ZM) and a short USB cable would also work. We’ve confirmed this adapter is NOT usable with DACs! Apparently it was made only for charging.
 Unquote
  
 cheers,
 K


----------



## joey99

thanks .. just needed to confirm before I spend on the apple cable.


----------



## joey99

well I got my C5D 2nd hand from a friend today and I was so surprised at how small and beautiful is!! it's tiny .. I couldn't tell from the pictures but next to my iphone 6 it's small. What a great looking little thing ... I'm loving it a lot.
  
 I got the apple lightning/USB cable and works very well. I've been going back and worth with the SE846, H3, IE800, O2+ODAC comparing the differences and I really really like it. After reading this whole thread, I thought maybe it doesn't make much of a difference but it does. Just using the amp I didn't think it sounded that much different from just the iphone but with the DAC, it's punchy and full sounding and the bass boost is so so so well done .. I wish they had that button on the O2+ODAC! 
  
 Also the noise floor with the 846 has lowered significantly too .. I never noticed it on the iphone 6 but when you compare it with the C5D .. it's very noticeable.
  
 I enjoy both O2+ODAC and C5D .. they do sound different. O2 is super clean super clear with wider soundstage and brighter. For me the C5D does sound slightly darker and the soundstage not as open but also makes it sound fuller especially if you turn on bass boost .. I like the medium bass boost at the moment.
  
 Compared to the E17 I had before .. it's no competition. The C5D is way way ahead especially on clarity.
  
 I've only played around with it for a few hours but this is a keeper just like the O2+ODAC (which made me sell all my other amps). 
 Just a great job JDSLABS has done with these ... so well made and sound so great and the price is amazing for what you get. 
 They also have the best customer service ever.
  
 so now .. to make the cable as short as possible I'm going to try one of these from ebay:

 Since the C5D is so small, I think it might be just ok under the iphone 6.


----------



## Happytalk

Hey all. Searched and searched. Got a c5 coming and an Odac. Wondering if anyone has tried this combination with success. I am referring to the older ODAC with the old case, and likely the old C5 with just the 2 bass boosts. Lost the bid on the O2 amp from the same seller as the odac. So instead of shelling out for a new O2 I plan on using the C5 with the ODAC. Just curious if anyone has done this. I admittedly did not read every post but I've tried searching several different ways and did read at least 300 posts. Thoughts?


----------



## Ivabign

A question on this amp/dac (C5D) - does the blue light go out when it is charged? If not, is there any way to know when it has received a full charge?
  
 EDIT: Okay, the light went out... 
  
 Just got one 2nd hand and am charging it before having a go at it - so to use my iPhone 6, I need a lightning to mini usb cable? 
  
 If I use with a 4th generation iPod Touch (30 pin) all I think I need is the CCK and a USB cable - that I have....


----------



## miceblue

happytalk said:


> Hey all. Searched and searched. Got a c5 coming and an Odac. Wondering if anyone has tried this combination with success. I am referring to the older ODAC with the old case, and likely the old C5 with just the 2 bass boosts. Lost the bid on the O2 amp from the same seller as the odac. So instead of shelling out for a new O2 I plan on using the C5 with the ODAC. Just curious if anyone has done this. I admittedly did not read every post but I've tried searching several different ways and did read at least 300 posts. Thoughts?



In my review of the C5, I made a comparison between it and the O2.
http://www.head-fi.org/products/jds-labs-c5-headphone-amplifier/reviews/9198

Here are my comparisons between the O2 and the C5:

 O2 gives the sense of a larger soundstage with more air between instruments (a school cafeteria); the C5 sounds more boxed-in (a school classroom)
 O2 sounds a bit more dynamic; the C5 sounds a little duller (not boring dull, but instruments don't sound as "full" and don't offer the kind of grand sound you get from the O2)
 O2 has a more laid-back upper-midrange/lower-treble (relative to the C5); the C5 sounds a bit brighter and more fatiguing
 Relating to the above point, the C5 has a midrange that is is a bit more forward and engaging; the O2 sounds more laid-back









ivabign said:


> Just got one 2nd hand and am charging it before having a go at it - so to use my iPhone 6, I need a lightning to mini usb cable?
> 
> If I use with a 4th generation iPod Touch (30 pin) all I think I need is the CCK and a USB cable - that I have....



To use the C5D as a DAC, you need the Lighting Camera Connection Kit or 30-pin Camera Connection Kit, a USB A to miniUSB cable, and be running iOS 7 or above.


----------



## Happytalk

That's really helpful. I also just received an e17 and I feel the bass is just too slow or something. I am a musician and I enjoy music, but also learn from it. So when I listen to music (Jazz) I need to hear clarity as well. Your description of the c5 being a little harsh bodes well. I am a drummer and I need to hear the attack of cymbals and drums at their natural speed as well as how the bass player is pulling the strings. On the fiio e17 it smooths the bass over just enough to where it just sounds like an elongated bass note and I no longer hear the attack of the bassist's finger. Which is what we drummers try to lock up with/play with musically. So hopefully the c5 with the oDAC will provide a more honest presentation. Based on your comments and my homework this far I think it just might! Thanks for your reply.


----------



## slackerpo

I own both devices, the c5d will provide all the detail you are expecting. Wich in inears will you be monitoring with?


----------



## Happytalk

Er4P and er4PS when I can figure out which pocket I put the adaptor in. The Odac will be for my Mac at home. I use an iPod classic for portable use for now. So I can't bypass the iPod's DAC which is generally good. Looking forward to the C5 with my ipod classic.


----------



## Happytalk

Also, I will probably at least try to use some hd 600's with this set up as well.


----------



## Happytalk

C5 is excellent, by the way. Even works well with the HD 650's. iPod with Fiio LOD cable to playing lossless files. Jazz. You dig?


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

joey99 said:


> well I got my C5D 2nd hand from a friend today and I was so surprised at how small and beautiful is!! it's tiny .. I couldn't tell from the pictures but next to my iphone 6 it's small. What a great looking little thing ... I'm loving it a lot.
> 
> I got the apple lightning/USB cable and works very well. I've been going back and worth with the SE846, H3, IE800, O2+ODAC comparing the differences and I really really like it. After reading this whole thread, I thought maybe it doesn't make much of a difference but it does. Just using the amp I didn't think it sounded that much different from just the iphone but with the DAC, it's punchy and full sounding and the bass boost is so so so well done .. I wish they had that button on the O2+ODAC!
> 
> ...



Can you take a picture of the C5d with ur iphone? I need to know the exact cable setup. Also I might want to use the c5d for work. Are they bigger than the c421? Oh how I've missed the bass boost on that one


----------



## slackerpo

my bad, i'd mistaken the devices.
  
 the c5 rocks either way though.


----------



## joey99

williamleonhart said:


> Can you take a picture of the C5d with ur iphone? I need to know the exact cable setup. Also I might want to use the c5d for work. Are they bigger than the c421? Oh how I've missed the bass boost on that one


 

 so this is what I've been using and it's probably the smallest I can make it unless splicing open the apple usb thing but I don't want to risk it as that little tiny cable did cost A$39 !! a bit of a rip off but definitely the DAC makes a big difference .. especially for my IM70 and H3. So it's the apple usb lightning camera adaptor with a $1 ebay usb to mini usb connector. works well so far.
  
 I've also used this as a desktop usb dac/amp and I do love the sound .. I think it's slightly different sound from the O2+ODAC but still really enjoyable. I don't even know which I like better .. both are good to my ears .. but having the bass boost is so good. It's abit too much on the IM70 but for the H3, 846 it works so well.


----------



## PrincessZero

I'm one of those rare people that use the C5 more than 11 hours a day. But instead of complaining I emailed John and asked if my incoming 2nd Gen*Astro Pro2* 20000mAh external battery pack would work with the unit. He replied within ten minutes. Such a great guy. Anyways, since getting the battery pack I use to charge all my portables on the go, I am now able to run the C5 for about 14 days without needing a power outlet. Not an ideal situation for most, but I have to carry a backpack full of tech everywhere I go for work, so anytime I'm not moving I plug in my C5 and within two hours I have another 11 hours of blissful enjoyment. My battery is the size of a paperback book, but any of the smaller pocket models should be able to extend the battery two to three times on the built in run time. 

 Some people complain, others take action I guess.....


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

joey99 said:


> so this is what I've been using and it's probably the smallest I can make it unless splicing open the apple usb thing but I don't want to risk it as that little tiny cable did cost A$39 !! a bit of a rip off but definitely the DAC makes a big difference .. especially for my IM70 and H3. So it's the apple usb lightning camera adaptor with a $1 ebay usb to mini usb connector. works well so far.
> 
> I've also used this as a desktop usb dac/amp and I do love the sound .. I think it's slightly different sound from the O2+ODAC but still really enjoyable. I don't even know which I like better .. both are good to my ears .. but having the bass boost is so good. It's abit too much on the IM70 but for the H3, 846 it works so well.



Fell in love with that bass boost since the c421. With my new gr10 I think it may be worth to bring along a external dac/amp for the iPhone, so maybe the c5d is what I'm going to buy next. 

If you're afraid the apple cable may break try putting ball pen springs on it. Lightning cable break a lot and that might be true with the USB adapter too.


----------



## worminater

princesszero said:


> I'm one of those rare people that use the C5 more than 11 hours a day. But instead of complaining I emailed John and asked if my incoming 2nd Gen*Astro Pro2* 20000mAh external battery pack would work with the unit. He replied within ten minutes. Such a great guy. Anyways, since getting the battery pack I use to charge all my portables on the go, I am now able to run the C5 for about 14 days without needing a power outlet. Not an ideal situation for most, but I have to carry a backpack full of tech everywhere I go for work, so anytime I'm not moving I plug in my C5 and within two hours I have another 11 hours of blissful enjoyment. My battery is the size of a paperback book, but any of the smaller pocket models should be able to extend the battery two to three times on the built in run time.
> 
> Some people complain, others take action I guess.....


 
 That GenAstro looks sweet.  Torn if I want one for travel or not though; I'd probably rather have 2 smaller ones(that could be charged off my Anker 5port walwart) less I could use it to charge my laptop also..


----------



## PrincessZero

worminater said:


> That GenAstro looks sweet.  Torn if I want one for travel or not though; I'd probably rather have 2 smaller ones(that could be charged off my Anker 5port walwart) less I could use it to charge my laptop also..


 
 It won't charge any laptop or ultrabook that I know of. 
 The wall charger is a tad bulky, but for my uses, I'd only need to take it if I was using my travel one for more than 12 days.
 I own two of the 20,000Mah models, one to power my portable router and micro server and the other for mobile devices.
 My mobile device designated unit, charges daily; my JDS C5 , ipod 5th gen, Moto X, wireless 3G hotspot and every other day my Nexus 7 2013 and my dumb phone once a week (has killer battery life) all for 12 days of traveling without wall outlet. I'm also waiting on recieving a solar panel to charge the packs while traveling for longer periods of time.
 You can't go wrong with any Anker unit, they are all solid.


----------



## atistatic

hi, i want to ask to Fiio x5 users ... it's worthy buy this amp if i'll purchase a X5 DAP?


----------



## miceblue

atistatic said:


> hi, i want to ask to Fiio x5 users ... it's worthy buy this amp if i'll purchase a X5 DAP?



Personally I didn't like the on-board amp section of the X5, and I found the C5 to be an improvement over it when using the line out connection.


----------



## qsk78

miceblue said:


> Personally I didn't like the on-board amp section of the X5, and I found the C5 to be an improvement over it when using the line out connection.


 
 +1, fully agree! Faster and better controlled bass. Neutral sound. More clarity and more details in general.


----------



## atistatic

miceblue said:


> Personally I didn't like the on-board amp section of the X5, and I found the C5 to be an improvement over it when using the line out connection.


 
 But i dont need get the C5D Version cuz the X5 DAC is better than the C5D dac right?


----------



## qsk78

atistatic said:


> But i dont need get the C5D Version cuz the X5 DAC is better than the C5D dac right?


 
 Should be, I guess. Technically, at least.
 PCM1792 in X5 vs PCM5102A in C5D. 
  
 Line out of X5 is really good.


----------



## miceblue

atistatic said:


> But i dont need get the C5D Version cuz the X5 DAC is better than the C5D dac right?



I think the DAC section of the C5D was a little more neutral compared to the X5, but they're both good and you should take that with a grain of salt since I wasn't actively comparing the DAC sections unlike the amp sections. If money is your concern, then I would say getting the C5 itself would be a better investment. Don't forget that with every pre-assembled DAC or amp from JDS Labs, you can get a free laser engraving on it. : )


----------



## SNSDluv

*Note 4 users*, does C5D work natively (e.g. streaming Google Music/Spotify)?


----------



## Malfunkt

Been using a very early version of the JDS Labs C5D for a while now.
  
 Lately been pretty impressed with it as a DAC. I have an old 80GB ipod that is still a workhorse. The old iPod still has plenty of juice, I can even push my HD650s decently. 
  
 But the difference between the DAC on the iPod and the C5D are not small. The DAC on the iPod in contrast is not as open, extended, and muffled. Of course its not nightmarishly bad (depends on taste and usage).
  
 At work, the iPod gets connected to the computer and the C5D gets plugged in. No question.
  
 The iPhone 6 DAC is better, but haven't done a real head-to-head with the C5D.


----------



## Semont

When you say "early version", I wonder how many revisions of the amp there are.
  
 I've got 1.01 as stated on my board.


----------



## Happytalk

malfunkt said:


> Been using a very early version of the JDS Labs C5D for a while now.
> 
> Lately been pretty impressed with it as a DAC. I have an old 80GB ipod that is still a workhorse. The old iPod still has plenty of juice, I can even push my HD650s decently.
> 
> ...




How are you bypassing the iPod's DAC? I just use a C5 because I thought it was not possible to bypass the iPod classic DAC. If it is possible to do so, I will quickly get a C5D. Otherwise I'll stick with my odac O2 combo for desktop use.


----------



## Malfunkt

happytalk said:


> How are you bypassing the iPod's DAC? I just use a C5 because I thought it was not possible to bypass the iPod classic DAC. If it is possible to do so, I will quickly get a C5D. Otherwise I'll stick with my odac O2 combo for desktop use.


 
 Good question. I'm connecting the iPod to my MacBook, and connecting the C5D to the MacBook. 
  
 What I found revealing is that unless you really need the volume, the JDS Labs amp (C5) isn't going to improve on the sound of the iPod (headphone/line out). Running via 1/8" line out from the iPod to the line in on the C5D - you are just amplifying the sound of the iPod's DAC. Even with my HD650, in this configuration, the sound wasn't really improved much by using the C5D, it was just louder. 
  
 However, the same songs/podcasts played via the C5D DAC, what a difference. 
  
 Now, if I'm out and about, I'm fine using the iPod or my iPhone just on its own. Sans amp. I got the C5D for its small size (to bring to the office and carry room-to-room) and bass boost. Otherwise, yeah, O2 and ODAC were in my sights - still are. From what JDS Labs have stated though, is that the C5D is measurably transparent as well, just not as much power as the O2.


----------



## Happytalk

Thanks. So it is possible to just access the files on the iPod and use the DAC on the C5D. Good to know. Are you using bitperfect with iTunes?


----------



## Mmet

happytalk said:


> Thanks. So it is possible to just access the files on the iPod and use the DAC on the C5D. Good to know. Are you using bitperfect with iTunes?



 ipod touch 5th gen is the only ipod model that you can bypass its dac section and get digital data from it with C5D ... Other than that you should use cypher labs dac or any similar products


----------



## Malfunkt

happytalk said:


> Thanks. So it is possible to just access the files on the iPod and use the DAC on the C5D. Good to know. Are you using bitperfect with iTunes?


 
  
 Just to be clear, I'm bypassing the iPod as it is being read off my computer just like you would a hard-drive. No, not using bit-perfect.


----------



## Happytalk

Hey guys. The rubber back part speck armorskin that was orig made for the iPod classic fits the C5 like a glove. Keeps it well protected. Just needs to be cut a tiny bit to accommodate the headphone jack, volume control, and on off switch.


----------



## hennezzy

anyone compared this with the IFI nano idsd?


----------



## myemaildw

i'm new to the dac scene and headphone scene relatively. i got to test fiio e10k and i know for sure that it's much better than mac internal dac. and people seem to like c5d but it's much more expensive like 2/3 more expensive to fiio. just curious how much more is c5d better in comparison to fiio e10k? any 1 had both? thanks


----------



## slackerpo

myemaildw said:


> i'm new to the dac scene and headphone scene relatively. i got to test fiio e10k and i know for sure that it's much better than mac internal dac. and people seem to like c5d but it's much more expensive like 2/3 more expensive to fiio. just curious how much more is c5d better in comparison to fiio e10k? any 1 had both? thanks


 
  
 yeah i own both devices...im not shure wich comparison is proper, but money wise i would feel comfortable saying that the c5d its worth at list twice as much as the fiio e10k...  i know in reality the c5d is 3 times more expensive than the e10k, what i meant is that is not a proportional ratio, between 3 times more expensive, 3 times better SQ wise.
  
 like i said, i feel the c5d is at list twice as better than the e10k.


----------



## myemaildw

slackerpo said:


> yeah i own both devices...im not shure wich comparison is proper, but money wise i would feel comfortable saying that the c5d its worth at list twice as much as the fiio e10k...  i know in reality the c5d is 3 times more expensive than the e10k, what i meant is that is not a proportional ratio, between 3 times more expensive, 3 times better SQ wise.
> 
> like i said, i feel the c5d is at list twice as better than the e10k.


 

 thanks a lot that pretty much summs it up for me, c5d is 2x better than fiio e10k. that c5d is worth two times the fiio e10k, meaning ideally c5d should cost 160 euro, but c5d cost 250 euro, c5d is 1/3 more expensive than in's worth in sound quality in comparison to fiio e10k, you can get three e10k for same price but c5d has 2x better sound quality. that's pretty good. thanks


----------



## freitz

Is this a AMP/DAC I should consider for my SE535 if my iphone 5c is my source? I believe the impedance out of the 5c is 4ohm's not sure though, haven't been able to confirm.


----------



## slackerpo

myemaildw said:


> thanks a lot that pretty much summs it up for me, c5d is 2x better than fiio e10k. that c5d is worth two times the fiio e10k, meaning ideally c5d should cost 160 euro, but c5d cost 250 euro, c5d is 1/3 more expensive than in's worth in sound quality in comparison to fiio e10k, you can get three e10k for same price but c5d has 2x better sound quality. that's pretty good. thanks


 
  
 yeah, 3 times the price might be a little 2 steep but, the diferences in SQ are notorious.
  


freitz said:


> Is this a AMP/DAC I should consider for my SE535 if my iphone 5c is my source? I believe the impedance out of the 5c is 4ohm's not sure though, haven't been able to confirm.


 
  
 yeah i think they are a great match, i tried my old se535 with the c5d, and i loved them. the se535 are particularly sensitive, so the c5d really brings the se535 forward. go for it.


----------



## freitz

slackerpo said:


> yeah, 3 times the price might be a little 2 steep but, the diferences in SQ are notorious.
> 
> 
> yeah i think they are a great match, i tried my old se535 with the c5d, and i loved them. the se535 are particularly sensitive, so the c5d really brings the se535 forward. go for it.




As a new head fi'er - what is the benefit of the source going into the Dac vs just a amp.?


----------



## miceblue

freitz said:


> As a new head fi'er - what is the benefit of the source going into the Dac vs just a amp.?



The external DAC might provide some audible benefits due to it being designed as a dedicated audio DAC. Even if the external DAC isn't better in terms of measurements per se, a different DAC could offer a different kind of sound for your music compared to the on-board DAC.

I don't have any experience with the 5C, so I can't say anything about how it sounds. This website says the output impedance of the 5S is around 2.2 Ω though.
http://monoadc.blog64.fc2.com/blog-entry-99.html


----------



## freitz

miceblue said:


> The external DAC might provide some audible benefits due to it being designed as a dedicated audio DAC. Even if the external DAC isn't better in terms of measurements per se, a different DAC could offer a different kind of sound for your music compared to the on-board DAC.
> 
> I don't have any experience with the 5C, so I can't say anything about how it sounds. This website says the output impedance of the 5S is around 2.2 Ω though.
> http://monoadc.blog64.fc2.com/blog-entry-99.html




2.2 should be fine. I a, using se535 I think they are 35 ohms.

Is there a better options than that Dac amp combo? 
5c sounds.... Better than my old iPhone 5 but that's probably because it's louder, not actually better.

Should I expect sound improvement with the se535 and the c5d?


----------



## Fungus

freitz said:


> As a new head fi'er - what is the benefit of the source going into the Dac vs just a amp.?


 
 No benefit..all dedicated dac is placebo IMHO


----------



## ThurstonX

fungus said:


> No benefit..all dedicated dac is placebo IMHO


 
  
 I challenge your PC/laptop/phone DAC to a duel vs. my Schiit Bifrost Uber.  Hell, vs. my own laptop.  *HELL*, vs. my M-Audio AP192!


----------



## Koolpep

fungus said:


> No benefit..all dedicated dac is placebo IMHO


 
  
 Hmmm, not from my experience. Though I must admit that some MacBooks/PCs and devices I have used have great audio components and the difference is negligible with some headphones/earphones.
  
 Proper ABX testing can reveal the differences. In an ideal world every DAC should have the same sound since it's just making an analog sound wave from a digital signal. But then, it's not an ideal world.
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## slackerpo

ill borrow a 5s to make some test, with and without my c5d. ill get back to you.


----------



## freitz

slackerpo said:


> ill borrow a 5s to make some test, with and without my c5d. ill get back to you.


 
 Sounds Good.


----------



## myemaildw

freitz said:


> Should I expect sound improvement with the se535 and the c5d?


 
 what are you going to play them se535 on? if from iphone 5c then i don't know if it can bypass iphone 5c dac if so then yes. apparently on ios7 with a camera to iphone usb addapter and usb to c5d dac will bypass the iphone dac. that would be very good cause that would mean you would get desktop kind of sound on your iphone. meaning desktop with c5d cause you can use c5d as external dac amp, can anyone confirm it with iphone and computer? thanks


----------



## freitz

myemaildw said:


> what are you going to play them se535 on? if from iphone 5c then i don't know if it can bypass iphone 5c dac if so then yes. apparently on ios7 with a camera to iphone usb addapter and usb to c5d dac will bypass the iphone dac. that would be very good cause that would mean you would get desktop kind of sound on your iphone. meaning desktop with c5d cause you can use c5d as external dac amp, can anyone confirm it with iphone and computer? thanks


 

 I think in the above picture that is what that user is doing. Bypassing the ipod touch Dac. I think I should be able to do the same thing with iphone 5c? There seems to be mixed reviews. Will the Dac amp combo improve on the sound quality or no?
  
 Current setup. SE535LTD directly to iphone 5c with 256k files.
  
 Suggested setup - upgraded cable, JDC c5d, iphone 5c, se535LTD, 256k files.


----------



## blse59

Hi, what was revised in the TI5102A dac chip over the regular TI5102?


----------



## slackerpo

wow i had a brief round with 5s and it sounds quite nice (cant speak for 5c though)
  
 im not able to make a dac/amp test with my c5d, since i cant get a hold on a proper otg to go with the lighting cable.
  
 for shure the 5s obliterates my very own z1 SQ wise.
  
_(tested in.ears: westone um pro 30)_


----------



## myemaildw

freitz said:


> I think in the above picture that is what that user is doing. Bypassing the ipod touch Dac. I think I should be able to do the same thing with iphone 5c? There seems to be mixed reviews. Will the Dac amp combo improve on the sound quality or no?
> 
> Current setup. SE535LTD directly to iphone 5c with 256k files.
> 
> Suggested setup - upgraded cable, JDC c5d, iphone 5c, se535LTD, 256k files.


 
  
 as far as i know it specifically says on jds labs website that you specifically need Lightning to USB Camera Adapter from apple, and only apple one will work so you need to spend extra 29 euro to get it working on your iphone 5c. and ofcourse it will be by far better sound than just iphone 5c, cause it will get digital and convert it to headphone signal and amplify it bypassing the dac amp on iphone 5c. whether it is for sure so i don't know. can anyone confirm this? cause you basically should get same audio quality on iphone 5c as on computer with c5d as a dac amp as an external dac. none the less this feature only works on ios7 but does it really work? i don't know. may be for this feature it's worth to buy it cause you would have desktop, laptop audio quality on the go. but please anyone can confirm this? thanks


----------



## Malfunkt

myemaildw said:


> as far as i know it specifically says on jds labs website that you specifically need Lightning to USB Camera Adapter from apple, and only apple one will work so you need to spend extra 29 euro to get it working on your iphone 5c. and ofcourse it will be by far better sound than just iphone 5c, cause it will get digital and convert it to headphone signal and amplify it bypassing the dac amp on iphone 5c. whether it is for sure so i don't know. can anyone confirm this? cause you basically should get same audio quality on iphone 5c as on computer with c5d as a dac amp as an external dac. none the less this feature only works on ios7 but does it really work? i don't know. may be for this feature it's worth to buy it cause you would have desktop, laptop audio quality on the go. but please anyone can confirm this? thanks




Yes, I have an iPhone 6, iPad 3 and iPhone 4s. You need the right connectors for each, but you can connect the C5D to iOS devices.

I will say that I'm very happy with the quality out of the iPhone 6 internal DAC. More than happy to use it on its own. I actually use my c5d more for desktop or if I need to drive my 650s or hd25s. 

You get the quality of sound from your portable as you would your desktop. I even use CanOpener app which can play back high quality files with control over dithering, but honestly I don't think the gear I have is good enough to hear a difference. 

Lossless files and high bit rate MP4 and I'm more than happy. Heck I'll listen directly out of my old iPod 80gb for that 'vintage' DAC feel


----------



## freitz

malfunkt said:


> Yes, I have an iPhone 6, iPad 3 and iPhone 4s. You need the right connectors for each, but you can connect the C5D to iOS devices.
> 
> I will say that I'm very happy with the quality out of the iPhone 6 internal DAC. More than happy to use it on its own. I actually use my c5d more for desktop or if I need to drive my 650s or hd25s.
> 
> ...


 
 So it is safe to say you do not notice a difference between the iphone 6 DAC and your C5D?

 What about with your iphone 4s? I doubt the iphone 5c is of the same quality DAC as the iphone 6.


----------



## miceblue

Danggit. I just loaded up music onto my iPhone 4S to try the DAC comparison myself...but I forgot a friend is borrowing my C5D for the time being. XD


----------



## myemaildw

freitz said:


> So it is safe to say you do not notice a difference between the iphone 6 DAC and your C5D?
> 
> What about with your iphone 4s? I doubt the iphone 5c is of the same quality DAC as the iphone 6.


 

 i would assume iphone 5c sounds better with c5d. no?


----------



## Koolpep

myemaildw said:


> i would assume iphone 5c sounds better with c5d. no?


 

 Hi!
  
 I have the C5D and an iPhone 6 (before that an iPhone 5) I use the C5D with the Lightning to camera adapter ( this one: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD821ZM/A/lightning-to-usb-camera-adapter?fnode=3a ) and the sound is better than the iPhone6 direct. However, the iPhone sounds great all by itself, the biggest difference is with headphones that need a bit of juice.
  
 So if you are running around with easy to drive IEMs it might be overkill, but if you want to drive something bigger or harder to drive directly out of your iPhone, then the C5D is awesome. Plus you can use the C5D as well on your Mac/PC as DAC/Amp.
  
 Cheers,
 K
  
 PS: this is how it looks connected to the iPhone...


----------



## freitz

koolpep said:


> Hi!
> 
> I have the C5D and an iPhone 6 (before that an iPhone 5) I use the C5D with the Lightning to camera adapter ( this one: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD821ZM/A/lightning-to-usb-camera-adapter?fnode=3a ) and the sound is better than the iPhone6 direct. However, the iPhone sounds great all by itself, the biggest difference is with headphones that need a bit of juice.
> 
> ...


 
 I am driving SE535LTD so it looks like it would make an insignificant difference.


----------



## Koolpep

freitz said:


> I am driving SE535LTD so it looks like it would make an insignificant difference.


 
  
 Nice IEMs!!
  
 Well, as mentioned, it does sound better from the C5D, however how significant that is is very subjective. For some the 2% increased detail means the world and for some it's not noticeable... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 If you don't need the C5D for anything else, then it's probably not worth  it....


----------



## myemaildw

just to double check this c5d dac sounds the same quality in mac and on iphone?


----------



## Malfunkt

myemaildw said:


> just to double check this c5d dac sounds the same quality in mac and on iphone?




Yes.


----------



## freitz

Just purchased one c5d to pair with iPhone 5c and se535ltd.

Any suggestions with a better connection than lighting to usb to mini usb? I assume the lighting to mini usb does not transfer data?


----------



## Koolpep

freitz said:


> Just purchased one c5d to pair with iPhone 5c and se535ltd.
> 
> Any suggestions with a better connection than lighting to usb to mini usb? I assume the lighting to mini usb does not transfer data?


 

 Don't understand your question?


----------



## freitz

koolpep said:


> Don't understand your question?




Is there a way to go lighting to mini usb to decrease the amount of cable and size?


----------



## Koolpep

freitz said:


> Is there a way to go lighting to mini usb to decrease the amount of cable and size?


 
  
  
 Well, the Apple cable is the way it is, and you need that as it contains the Apple certified chip (Made for iPhone) that let's you connect a DAC to it.  The USB to micro USB can be as short as you can find it......
  
 Cheers,
 K
  
 PS: take a look here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/690778/jds-labs-c5d-headphone-amp-dac/15


----------



## myemaildw

freitz said:


> Just purchased one c5d to pair with iPhone 5c and se535ltd.
> 
> Any suggestions with a better connection than lighting to usb to mini usb? I assume the lighting to mini usb does not transfer data?


 

 what do you think of the audio difference with iphone 5c internal dac audio and with c5d on iphone 5c?


----------



## freitz

myemaildw said:


> what do you think of the audio difference with iphone 5c internal dac audio and with c5d on iphone 5c?


 
 Just ordered my C5D the yesterday. I probably won't get it until mid next week or late next week. I will post here when I do,


----------



## DimaSebastian

Would it work well with SRH1540 or AD???


----------



## miceblue

AD as in Alpha Dog? The C5D can drive them well even in low gain. Whether or not the synergy is to your liking is a different story though. I would prefer a more spacious-sounding DAC/amp to be paired with the Alpha Dog like the ODAC/O2, but the C5D does a great job nonetheless if you're looking for a portable solution.


----------



## DimaSebastian

Yes for portable use mainly.I have one already and a IBasso DX100 on the way.All that remains are the headsets.Oscilating between SRH1540 and Alpha Dogs.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

I was so close to buying the C5D, but the other day I spent some time with my iGrado (connected to iphone 5), and honestly I wonder if a $200 upgrade is worth it. The iphone line out was pretty fantastic. I have a O2/ODAC at home, so there's not much reason left to buy the C5D. But then I do have the GR10 which is very light on bass... It's been months since I bought anything and upgraditus is killing me!


----------



## luisdent

I'm a huge JDS fan. They're amps are fantastic. However, I don't amp my iphone 6. The measurements as well as listening show that it is an extremely high quality dac and amp. http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-6-plus.htm
  
 So as much as I love JDS, I don't see much reason to use an amp or dac with an iphone UNLESS a) you need more output b) you have IEMs very sensitive to output impedance. The iphone 6 is 3.8 ohms or something. Pretty low, but not low enough for some earphones to not have a noticeable frequency response change.
  
 Other than those two reasons, I see no reason to upgrade. But I use and test a lot of earphones and headphones, so my JDS gear is my benchmark/test equipment. Low output impedance, reference grade sound. So I wouldn't want to be without it.  It's also always around if I want to listen to a source that isn't so great.


----------



## Koolpep

williamleonhart said:


> I was so close to buying the C5D, but the other day I spent some time with my iGrado (connected to iphone 5), and honestly I wonder if a $200 upgrade is worth it. The iphone line out was pretty fantastic. I have a O2/ODAC at home, so there's not much reason left to buy the C5D. But then I do have the GR10 which is very light on bass... It's been months since I bought anything and upgraditus is killing me!


 

 If you need to slightly boost a headphones bass, the C5D implementation of the 2 stage bass boost is absolutely amazing. It really works so well, if you still need it after using this amp.
  
 Since I upgraded to the iPhone 6 I don't use the C5D anymore on my phone, except with the "big guns" however, I put stacked the C5D onto my X5 and oh my, not sure why and how but these two together (line out from X5 -> C5D) make my earphones sing... more than I ever thought. Especially the Ultimate Ears UE900s are now amazing
  
 Photo:
  
   

 Cheers,
 K


----------



## FiJAAS

I have a question, has anyone compared the Sony PHA-1 against the C5?


----------



## Happytalk

koolpep said:


> If you need to slightly boost a headphones bass, the C5D implementation of the 2 stage bass boost is absolutely amazing. It really works so well, if you still need it after using this amp.
> 
> Since I upgraded to the iPhone 6 I don't use the C5D anymore on my phone, except with the "big guns" however, I put stacked the C5D onto my X5 and oh my, not sure why and how but these two together (line out from X5 -> C5D) make my earphones sing... more than I ever thought. Especially the Ultimate Ears UE900s are now amazing
> 
> ...



So you're still using the DAC on the x5 here? Is it possible to bypass the x5 DAC and utilize the c5d DAC?


----------



## Koolpep

happytalk said:


>


 

 It's easier if your response is not inline with the quote 
  
 I assume your question was:
 So you're still using the DAC on the x5 here? Is it possible to bypass the x5 DAC and utilize the c5d DAC?
  
  
 Yes, since the C5D has no digital in, there is no way of circumventing the DAC portion with the C5D. However you could if you find DAC/amp that can do COAX digital in. 
  
 But the DAC part of the X5 is pretty good.
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

koolpep said:


> If you need to slightly boost a headphones bass, the C5D implementation of the 2 stage bass boost is absolutely amazing. It really works so well, if you still need it after using this amp.
> 
> Since I upgraded to the iPhone 6 I don't use the C5D anymore on my phone, except with the "big guns" however, I put stacked the C5D onto my X5 and oh my, not sure why and how but these two together (line out from X5 -> C5D) make my earphones sing... more than I ever thought. Especially the Ultimate Ears UE900s are now amazing
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the answer. I once had the C421 and it was the single most fantastic portable amp I've ever had. No wonder the c5d does fantastic job on your X5.


----------



## Happytalk

koolpep said:


> It's easier if your response is not inline with the quote
> 
> I assume your question was:
> So you're still using the DAC on the x5 here? Is it possible to bypass the x5 DAC and utilize the c5d DAC?
> ...




Thanks. Fixed it. It was late. Thanks for the answer. I didn't like the fiio e17k. So I am concerned that it may be their house sound. Bass was just little slow for me. Once I got my c5 I new I was in business. Just curious if the x5 would be similar.


----------



## Digital7

I've always been a fan of JDS Labs but never had a chance to hear a C5D, so i'm glad you posted this review. I get the impression it's not quite as flawlessly neutral as i had supposed. Is there a chance that the slightly forward mids could possibly be due to your headphones at all? If so, this would put the C5D back on my radar.


----------



## Smurfs2010

koolpep said:


> If you need to slightly boost a headphones bass, the C5D implementation of the 2 stage bass boost is absolutely amazing. It really works so well, if you still need it after using this amp.
> 
> Since I upgraded to the iPhone 6 I don't use the C5D anymore on my phone, except with the "big guns" however, I put stacked the C5D onto my X5 and oh my, not sure why and how but these two together (line out from X5 -> C5D) make my earphones sing... more than I ever thought. Especially the Ultimate Ears UE900s are now amazing
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have the same experience when paired with the Fiio X3.  And totally agree with the bass boost.  This is a really good unit as the background is dead silent.


----------



## FiJAAS

fijaas said:


> I have a question, has anyone compared the Sony PHA-1 against the C5?




Could anyone give input if you have both of these items?


----------



## freitz

I received my C5D, with my iphone it works great with the SE535's LTD. 
  
 However when I use the USB on my Macbook air, sound only comes out of the right IEM instead of both. There is nothing wrong with the IEM. I can't figure out how to fix the issue. Has anyone had this before?


----------



## Fungus

luisdent said:


> I'm a huge JDS fan. They're amps are fantastic. However, I don't amp my iphone 6. The measurements as well as listening show that it is an extremely high quality dac and amp. http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-6-plus.htm
> 
> So as much as I love JDS, I don't see much reason to use an amp or dac with an iphone UNLESS a) you need more output b) you have IEMs very sensitive to output impedance. The iphone 6 is 3.8 ohms or something. Pretty low, but not low enough for some earphones to not have a noticeable frequency response change.
> 
> Other than those two reasons, I see no reason to upgrade. But I use and test a lot of earphones and headphones, so my JDS gear is my benchmark/test equipment. Low output impedance, reference grade sound. So I wouldn't want to be without it.  It's also always around if I want to listen to a source that isn't so great.


 
 I couldn't agree more with you.
 Even most consumer daps likes the ipod sound just as good as a dedicated dac/amp.
 Unlike you, I don't require the power nor extremely low output impedance since I'll only be using iems.If I do come across an iem with low impedance, I'll purchase something else.
 If your iphone 6 could be used as a external dac/amp, the jds could be rendered useless. 
 Right know, I'm contemplating whether or not I should sell off my c5 and just got with a 6th gen ipod nano. So much more compact and convenient at the expense of less bass and smaller sound stage. Difference is like 5% and that's on a good day.


----------



## joey99

I don't usually amp my iphone6 either .. but the C5D does wonders to lower end iems especially with the bass boost. My friend has a set of westone W2 and bass is hollow and almost non-existant (compared to the 846 and Z5)... and he watches a lot of movies ... so once he tried watching some movies with the bass boost on, he had to get a C5D. I do take mine on the plane and use it for movies in bed with boost on .. even the 846 benefits from it with big explosions which make them rumble like woofers.


----------



## Koolpep

joey99 said:


> I don't usually amp my iphone6 either .. but the C5D does wonders to lower end iems especially with the bass boost. My friend has a set of westone W2 and bass is hollow and almost non-existant (compared to the 846 and Z5)... and he watches a lot of movies ... so once he tried watching some movies with the bass boost on, he had to get a C5D. I do take mine on the plane and use it for movies in bed with boost on .. even the 846 benefits from it with big explosions which make them rumble like woofers.


 

 Indeed, it's the "fun switch". I use the C5D when I listen with my UE900s and without the C5D the bass is not that great, with it, it's awesome, even with bass boost off, it really brings out the bass in this headphone. Tried with a desktop amp and the result was the same, the UE900s needs power to drive the two bass BA drivers.


----------



## Semont

I went to my local headphone store and the C5D was capable of driving the HD800, LCD-2, and Alpha Dogs.
  
 The LCD-2 sounded the best to me imo.


----------



## Mmet

from my experience.. balanced armatures ( specially the multi-armatures ) not easily driven like what people saying ... yes they can go very loud with minimal current.... but they need the right amplification to really sing and give their best


----------



## luisdent

Impedance is critical with balanced armatures. The c5d is very good with that being < 1 ohm.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

I'm rather ignorant on tech details. At 1 ohm imp is the c5d better for low-imp cans or high-imp cans?


----------



## Fungus

fungus said:


> I couldn't agree more with you.
> Even most consumer daps likes the ipod sound just as good as a dedicated dac/amp.
> Unlike you, I don't require the power nor extremely low output impedance since I'll only be using iems.If I do come across an iem with low impedance, I'll purchase something else.
> If your iphone 6 could be used as a external dac/amp, the jds could be rendered useless.
> Right know, I'm contemplating whether or not I should sell off my c5 and just got with a 6th gen ipod nano. So much more compact and convenient at the expense of less bass and smaller sound stage. Difference is like 5% and that's on a good day.


 
 I take back what I said..well as least compared to my ipod nano 5th gen. Aside from the tighter bass and larger sound stage, dynamic is much improved as well as more forwards vocals.


----------



## Mmet

williamleonhart said:


> I'm rather ignorant on tech details. At 1 ohm imp is the c5d better for low-imp cans or high-imp cans?


 
 low-imp cans and multi armature iems


----------



## Digital7

fungus said:


> I take back what I said..well as least compared to my ipod nano 5th gen. Aside from the tighter bass and larger sound stage, dynamic is much improved as well as more forwards vocals.



 



I have the 7th generation iPod nano, and yet, even without extra amping, the soundstage and dynamics and clarity of the iPod are extremely good; in fact, from what i'm hearing, it sounds on-par with some of the better midrange DAC/Amps. There might be a slight difference when comparing to a high-end DAC/Amp, i don't know, but maybe the type of difference that only the most picky enthusiasts and audiophiles will find, but actually i do consider myself an audiophile, just not a wealthy one.

I've compared the 7th generation iPod Nano side-by-side with my new FiiO E17K DAC/Amp, and i can tell you that the iPod Nano easily holds its own, and has actually got the edge over the E17K, no joke, they are remarkably similar when listening to both of them through the same headphones (in this case i used the Shure SRH440 and Yamaha MT220), but the iPod Nano is performing slightly better in the treble spectrum, there's more air, and it's more accurate, with slightly superior treble-width and snap in a natural manner true to the original sound source, the E17K is slightly recessed in this area and also a touch clinical, but the E17K is ever so slightly more articulate in the bass spectrum though, but there's not much in it. I would describe the 7th generation iPod Nano as beautifully balanced and very neutral overall, true story!

Maybe the Amp/DAC in the iPod would under-perform slightly when trying to drive top-tier expensive headphones, i don't know, but from what i am hearing it's doing a valiant overall job as it is. 

Using the provided IEM headphones from Apple i can see why a lot of people are happy with the standard setup; the latest supplied IEMs do a pretty reasonable job, but they definitely fall short when doing the A/B thing with quality overhead headphones.


----------



## palermo

anyone have C5 paired with fiio X1 ? how it sounds?


----------



## Fungus

palermo said:


> anyone have C5 paired with fiio X1 ? how it sounds?


 
 Very little difference I predict.  
 What will you be using it with? 
 Unless you have revealing gear and want to spend most of your time analysing music to hear the subtle differences as oppose to enjoying your music, it better to go unamped.


----------



## vontokkerths

I've been asking around for a while now and once I think I've made up my mind I read something that makes me feel undecided.. I'm using a Galaxy note 4 for music (using poweamp and shure se215) and I've been thinking if I'm better off getting a jds labs c5d or a DAP. The Battle in my mind is between the iBasso dx50/90 (with a little more cash for the iBasso) or just using my phone. A lot of people say the iBasso dx50/90 are 100% usable (pardon my English skills, I think that's the word) but quite some people have report issues with SD cards, UI, something about missing files, etc. I'll be pairing my set up with my iem upgrade which will be ath-im03/dunu dn2000(one of them) any help will be appreciated.  thanks.


----------



## Koolpep

vontokkerths said:


> I've been asking around for a while now and once I think I've made up my mind I read something that makes me feel undecided.. I'm using a Galaxy note 4 for music (using poweamp and shure se215) and I've been thinking if I'm better off getting a jds labs c5d or a DAP. The Battle in my mind is between the iBasso dx50/90 (with a little more cash for the iBasso) or just using my phone. A lot of people say the iBasso dx50/90 are 100% usable (pardon my English skills, I think that's the word) but quite some people have report issues with SD cards, UI, something about missing files, etc. I'll be pairing my set up with my iem upgrade which will be ath-im03/dunu dn2000(one of them) any help will be appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hi!
  
 I have the C5D and the DX50, what do you want to know? With the DX50 I had never any missing files, the C5D is amazing and versatile but nothing beats a dedicated DAP in my mind. 
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## vontokkerths

koolpep said:


> Hi!
> 
> I have the C5D and the DX50, what do you want to know? With the DX50 I had never any missing files, the C5D is amazing and versatile but nothing beats a dedicated DAP in my mind.
> 
> ...


 Hi, 
Thank you for taking the time to reply. In your opinion, which between the two would be a better buy? Do you think I should go with the dx50/90 over the c5d? I've heard some really good things about the c5d in general and that was my first choice until I discovered the iBasso (I'm kind of new to this). I will be pairing an amp with the dx50/90 in the future because this will be my portable/transportable right and my home rig as well. (students problem  ) I'm sorry that my English writing is not perfect. Thanks.


----------



## Koolpep

vontokkerths said:


> Hi,
> Thank you for taking the time to reply. In your opinion, which between the two would be a better buy? Do you think I should go with the dx50/90 over the c5d? I've heard some really good things about the c5d in general and that was my first choice until I discovered the iBasso (I'm kind of new to this). I will be pairing an amp with the dx50/90 in the future because this will be my portable/transportable right and my home rig as well. (students problem
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Your english is great!
  
 The DX50/DX90 has these benefits:
 + you can use it as DAC/Amp on a Windows PC (not Mac) 
 + you can use it on the go, without taking battery life from your phone
 + you can expand it with micro SD cards
 + it drives most headphones well
 + has replaceable battery
 + very affordable ($199 on Amazon)
 + it's a DAP
 - not the strongest amp section
  
  
 The C5D has these benefits:
 + you can use it as DAC/Amp on every PC (Windows, Mac, Linux)
 + it has a very good Amp that drives even harder to drive headphones
 + it has a glorious two stage bass switch that really works wonders
 + very low output impedance 
 + very black background (absolutely no hiss)
 + very good sound quality 
 + it's a portable DAC/AMP
 - it always requires a source
 - not all phones will be able to use it as DAC (iPhone, some Android phones)
 - no replaceable battery
  
 Personally, I would go with a DAP first. Yo can always add an DAC/Amp later. But this DAP might be all you ever need depending on the headphones you use. DX50 should be able to drive the ones you mentioned before just fine but I have not tested that myself. 
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## Semont

koolpep said:


> The C5D has these benefits:
> + you can use it as DAC/Amp on every PC (Windows, Mac, Linux)
> + it has a very good Amp that drives even harder to drive headphones
> + it has a glorious two stage bass switch that really works wonders
> ...


 
  
 Actually, you CAN replace the battery. It was posted several pages back which two models you can use.
  
 Also the bass switch actually has 4 levels. Low and high on low gain sounds different from low and high on high gain.
  
 In the order of bass gain strength in terms of bass/gain would be Low/low, Low/high, High/low, High/high.


----------



## Koolpep

semont said:


> Actually, you CAN replace the battery. It was posted several pages back which two models you can use.
> 
> Also the bass switch actually has 4 levels. Low and high on low gain sounds different from low and high on high gain.
> 
> In the order of bass gain strength in terms of bass/gain would be Low/low, Low/high, High/low, High/high.



Ok, let's say:

DX50:
+ easily replaceable battery
+ 3 different gain levels
+ equalizer

C5D:
+ amazing bass boost with. 4 stages
+ 2 gain settings
+ more power


----------



## vontokkerths

koolpep said:


> Ok, let's say:
> 
> DX50:
> + easily replaceable battery
> ...


 So I'm gonna be better off buying the dx50/90 and adding just the amp in the long run? This will be my only rig for now so I'm going to use full zone cans as well so I guess at some point I have to add an amp (I like the c5) although I don't know how well the iBasso will pair with the jds labs c5. Do you think I should go for the dx50 or buy the 'best' (being the dx90) and then an amp and cry just one time? Lol. Thanks a lot for the info, it's been really helpful.


----------



## Koolpep

vontokkerths said:


> So I'm gonna be better off buying the dx50/90 and adding just the amp in the long run? This will be my only rig for now so I'm going to use full zone cans as well so I guess at some point I have to add an amp (I like the c5) although I don't know how well the iBasso will pair with the jds labs c5. Do you think I should go for the dx50 or buy the 'best' (being the dx90) and then an amp and cry just one time? Lol. Thanks a lot for the info, it's been really helpful.


 

 Well, in the end, it's what you need most, so it's your decision. Personally I think a player makes things easier to carry around if you need the setup to be mobile. If it's too big, heavy, cumbersome you end up not listening to it much.
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## palermo

fungus said:


> Very little difference I predict.
> What will you be using it with?
> Unless you have revealing gear and want to spend most of your time analysing music to hear the subtle differences as oppose to enjoying your music, it better to go unamped.


 
 OK, so it totally not worth. I found my X1 has a lot of upper bass, so I think C5 can give extra sub bass by activate the BB.


----------



## Fungus

palermo said:


> OK, so it totally not worth. I found my X1 has a lot of upper bass, so I think C5 can give extra sub bass by activate the BB.


 
 Switching on the bass boost to even to the first step is an overkill unless you have very bass light headphones. The c5 already has more bass quantity than most modern daps I've come across.


----------



## Fungus

I've been using the sony hd5 with my c5 via line out for a few months now. Yesterday night in bed while listening to a track, I decided to test how good the nw5 was straight out of the headphone jack. The difference was day and night. Unamped, it was almost like listening to the radio, everything sounded so congested, grainy and muddy in comparison. Complex instrumental passages sounded like a mess. Just the overall tone was entirely different. I remember comparing the nw5 > c5 with the ipod nano 5g and 6g and the differences weren't nearly as big.
 What I've realised now is that built in amp of modern day daps have much improved over the decade.


----------



## mdiogofs

Hello. Does the C5D works from Android USB OTG from Spotify? Tks


----------



## Young Spade

vontokkerths said:


> So I'm gonna be better off buying the dx50/90 and adding just the amp in the long run? This will be my only rig for now so I'm going to use full zone cans as well so I guess at some point I have to add an amp (I like the c5) although I don't know how well the iBasso will pair with the jds labs c5. Do you think I should go for the dx50 or buy the 'best' (being the dx90) and then an amp and cry just one time? Lol. Thanks a lot for the info, it's been really helpful.


 
  
 Well it depends on how much energy your cans require. Being properly amped > using a DX50 UNLESS the DAP can drive your cans. Honestly just do some of your own research and find out the output values of the DX50, CD5, and whether your headphones would benefit from amplification. 
  
 Honestly switching DAPs will only matter if you have pretty resolving headphones. What are you using right now?


----------



## Leo888

Hi,may I ask for a comparison between the C5 and the Fiio E12A. What are the advantage of one over the other. Will very much appreciate it as I'm looking to amp my Fiio X1. Thanks in advance.


----------



## xuan87

Can I ask all JDS C5D owners and ex-owners here, what are some of the alternative portable dac/amp that you've moved on to from the C5D? 
  
 Personally, I think of my C5D as an anti-poison shield, many portable daps, dac/amps many times more expensive failed to sway me when compared to the C5D.
  
 Just the other way, I was convinced that the AK100+glove audio A1 combo will be my endgame portable rig, but I still preferred my iPhone 5S+ C5D combo when doing a direct side by side test.
  
 Maybe my only option will be to wait for JDS Labs to come up with a new successor to the C5D


----------



## miceblue

Good question. I'm a beta tester for the OPPO HA-2 portable DAC/amp, and I think it's an overall better product than the C5D for pretty much the same price bracket ($299). I still like the C5D for its size though since the HA-2 is pretty large in footprint.


----------



## xuan87

miceblue said:


> Good question. I'm a beta tester for the OPPO HA-2 portable DAC/amp, and I think it's an overall better product than the C5D for pretty much the same price bracket ($299). I still like the C5D for its size though since the HA-2 is pretty large in footprint.


 
  
 Interesting, will definitely check it out once it lands in Singapore. Glad to see that it supports DSD too.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

I'm starting to feel attached to JDS.


----------



## FiJAAS

Just got a iPod Nano 6th Generation and paired it with the C5... It sounds darn good teamed together. To me it sounded even better than the iPod Classic 7th Generation paired with the C5.


----------



## dbdynsty25

xuan87 said:


> Personally, I think of my C5D as an anti-poison shield, many portable daps, dac/amps many times more expensive failed to sway me when compared to the C5D.


 
  
 That's pretty much the way I feel about the C5D...I've bought and sold it three times and ultimately it's the amp/dac I always come back to so I stopped trying to find something better.  I love everything about it.  Pairs nicely with my iPad Air 2, my Macbook Pro and my Moto X (2014)...can't complain at all.  It really is a fantastic device and John has done a fantastic job supporting it in this thread.  I'm a big JDS Labs fan now.
  
 I'll definitely be picking up it's successor whenever that drops (is there something coming?).


----------



## palermo

I'm an ex owner C5D. now I want back C5 to stacked with X1. I miss so much how the middle BB really make every phone shake.


----------



## Mmet

palermo said:


> I'm an ex owner C5D. now I want back C5 to stacked with X1. I miss so much how the middle BB really make every phone shake.



Is the BB implemented differently between the c5d and c5 ?! I thought they are the same


----------



## palermo

yes, it is the same, I try another amp like E12A and D-zero mkII and can't find BB as good as on C5 and C5D.


----------



## xuan87

dbdynsty25 said:


> That's pretty much the way I feel about the C5D...I've bought and sold it three times and ultimately it's the amp/dac I always come back to so I stopped trying to find something better.  I love everything about it.  Pairs nicely with my iPad Air 2, my Macbook Pro and my Moto X (2014)...can't complain at all.  It really is a fantastic device and John has done a fantastic job supporting it in this thread.  I'm a big JDS Labs fan now.
> 
> I'll definitely be picking up it's successor whenever that drops (is there something coming?).


 
  
 Don't know if there will be a successor as essentially, there's nothing much that JDS Labs can improve on the C5S objective wise (since it did so well on the measurements and any improvement is supposed to be inaudible).
  
 Just guessing: They MIGHT come out with a bigger and more powerful unit, and sell both of them side by side, something like what Centrance is doing with M8 and mini-M8. Not sure if they will be interested in coming out with a desktop unit since they are also selling the O2/ODAC combo.


----------



## dbdynsty25

xuan87 said:


> Don't know if there will be a successor as essentially, there's nothing much that JDS Labs can improve on the C5S objective wise (since it did so well on the measurements and any improvement is supposed to be inaudible).
> 
> Just guessing: They MIGHT come out with a bigger and more powerful unit, and sell both of them side by side, something like what Centrance is doing with M8 and mini-M8. Not sure if they will be interested in coming out with a desktop unit since they are also selling the O2/ODAC combo.


 
  
 Yeah that's kind of what I figured as well.  I definitely don't need bigger and more powerful, so I'll just continue along w/ my fantastic C5D and be happy.


----------



## ThurstonX

xuan87 said:


> Don't know if there will be a successor as essentially, there's nothing much that JDS Labs can improve on the C5S objective wise (since it did so well on the measurements and any improvement is supposed to be inaudible).
> 
> Just guessing: They MIGHT come out with a bigger and more powerful unit, and sell both of them side by side, something like what Centrance is doing with M8 and mini-M8. Not sure if they will be interested in coming out with a desktop unit since they are also selling the O2/ODAC combo.


 
  
 A powerful desktop unit, maybe an amp + DAC, that can drive the tougher cans well (HE-560s, maybe not HE-6s) a la the Polaris from Garage1217, or an Audio-gd type with more style... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, seems like a logical next step.  It's a bit of a crowded market, but maybe they can use (or already have) the Schiit/Garage1217 philosophy of keeping the production as domestic as possible.  That would keep the retail price down.  I don't doubt their engineering chops.  My Spidey sense is tingling


----------



## palermo

I prefer to keep portable without change the footprint, C5/D already has excellent build size. Perhaps JDS could improve the tech inside to better implementation or something else. Nowadays portable amp have opamp + buffer mix, and mostly work well.


----------



## JRoMan

I have a c421. I was bummed when I found out about the C5D. I still don't have an external DAC 

It's a great size as a portable DAC/amp


----------



## xuan87

jroman said:


> I have a c421. I was bummed when I found out about the C5D. I still don't have an external DAC
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I had a C421 which I promptly sold when JDS released the C5 which I promptly sold again when they released the C5D lol. 
  
 Maybe JDS can release a fully balanced version of the C5D next? (C5B maybe?)


----------



## JRoMan

xuan87 said:


> I had a C421 which I promptly sold when JDS released the C5 which I promptly sold again when they released the C5D lol.
> 
> Maybe JDS can release a fully balanced version of the C5D next? (C5B maybe?)




I was in ignorant bliss for awhile there because I stopped reading Head Fi and just listened to music, lol. I'm now back in gear lust mode again.


----------



## palermo

xuan87 said:


> Maybe JDS can release a fully balanced version of the C5D next? (C5B maybe?)


 
 Interesting. But JDS keep silence to their next project, so lot of us wondering it.


----------



## xuan87

palermo said:


> Interesting. But JDS keep silence to their next project, so lot of us wondering it.


 
  
 My money is on a desktop amp. Right before Nwavguy disappeared, he was teasing the ODA project, so maybe JDS Labs will finally be the one to give us what we want?


----------



## palermo

xuan87 said:


> My money is on a desktop amp. Right before Nwavguy disappeared, he was teasing the ODA project, so maybe JDS Labs will finally be the one to give us what we want?


 
 Someone DIYer has already contribute the ODA design in diy thread here and link refers to diyaudio here , it's cool


----------



## xuan87

palermo said:


> Someone DIYer has already contribute the ODA design in diy thread here and link refers to diyaudio here , it's cool




Yup i saw that some time back, but its not as friendly to diy beginners and it also doesnt have the same leve of support as the O2 amps from established manfacturers. So personally i still see a market for a JDS ODA+ODAC combo.


----------



## freitz

I have used my c5D red for about 2 weeks.... Traveled with it. Not for me, when traveling I found it cumbersome to remember to charge and pack one more item. Rather have a spare battery charger and space is limited.
  
 If someone is interested in purchasing it from me please PM. Used for a total of 8 hours on two flights.


----------



## Fungus

freitz said:


> I have used my c5D red for about 2 weeks.... Traveled with it. Not for me, when traveling I found it cumbersome to remember to charge and pack one more item. Rather have a spare battery charger and space is limited.
> 
> If someone is interested in purchasing it from me please PM. Used for a total of 8 hours on two flights.


 
 But you would have known before making the purchase right? It's like saying the ipod is not for me because it's too cumbersome and an additional charger is needed. I assume you won't consider buying another portable amp/dac because it will also require carrying an extra charger when travelling.


----------



## freitz

fungus said:


> But you would have known before making the purchase right? It's like saying the ipod is not for me because it's too cumbersome and an additional charger is needed. I assume you won't consider buying another portable amp/dac because it will also require carrying an extra charger when travelling.


 
  
 An Ipod would be cumbersome... 
  
 No; I think I will just use my iphone and be fine with it. No need to add additional items that limit portability.


----------



## Fungus

freitz said:


> An Ipod would be cumbersome...
> 
> No; I think I will just use my iphone and be fine with it. No need to add additional items that limit portability.


 
 Good choice. You won't be missing much listening straight out of your iphone.


----------



## GridIroN

Anyone have any info as to how either the C5 and C5D stack up against the Cayin C5 or iBasso D-Zero 2?


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

From my experiences a shoulder bag (wherever you go) will really make your (digital) life much easier. I put in my bag spare batteries, chargers, notes... The bag also drastically reduce the rate of my forgetting my keys and other important stuffs - if I know I'm going to need something for tomorrow, I'd just put it in the bag and go to sleep peacefully. Used to put the iBasso D2 and iGrado into the bag to take it to work, but right now I'd just leave my stuffs at the company.


----------



## Happytalk

williamleonhart said:


> From my experiences a shoulder bag (wherever you go) will really make your (digital) life much easier. I put in my bag spare batteries, chargers, notes... The bag also drastically reduce the rate of my forgetting my keys and other important stuffs - if I know I'm going to need something for tomorrow, I'd just put it in the bag and go to sleep peacefully. Used to put the iBasso D2 and iGrado into the bag to take it to work, but right now I'd just leave my stuffs at the company.




Which bag? Just curious.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Something like this:
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Genuine-leather-Casual-Leisure-shoulder-bag-men-Free-Shipping-all-country/404115_520622737.html
  
 You know, the typical one that people use for iPad. If you have a lot of stuffs to carry (like mechanical keyboards or laptops), consider some messenger bags.


----------



## worminater

Technical term is Murse 
  
 I try bring my backpack with me ~everywhere; even if it has nothing in it by earbuds and pad/paper.


----------



## ZSamuels28

How is the JDS C5D compared to the Fiio E17k or iBasso D-Zero MK2 or even other DACs in this price range?


----------



## ThurstonX

If you're willing to splurge on something, there's this:
  
 http://www.territoryahead.com/item/193360/guy-stuff-gear-bag
  
 Maybe you can get it as a gift.  I wouldn't have bought it, esp. since I don't use it nearly enough, but it is nice.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

zsamuels28 said:


> How is the JDS C5D compared to the Fiio E17k or iBasso D-Zero MK2 or even other DACs in this price range?


 
 My rule of thumbs is to stay away from Fiio (had bad experiences with the E5, E7 and E9 years ago). I like iBasso, but the D-Zero cannot compare to the JDS C5D. Everything still depends on your budget, though.


----------



## Fungus

williamleonhart said:


> My rule of thumbs is to stay away from Fiio (had bad experiences with the E5, E7 and E9 years ago). I like iBasso, but the D-Zero cannot compare to the JDS C5D. Everything still depends on your budget, though.


 
 I'd recommend you stay away from all Fiio products. Every item I've purchased from this company offers nothing but poor quality, inconsistent quality control that eventually leads to the damage of my gear


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Hah "lucky" for me I ordered an E5 that had faulty bass boost (did nothing), the E7 and E9 that my friends had quickly broke down in quick succession a few months after purchase. I've stayed away from them ever since. While iBasso, Little Dot, Aune and a few other Chinese/Asian audio equipment manufacturers have some sort of DIY-like and friendly feels to them, I'm under the impression that Fiio mass-produce their products with very poor QC.


----------



## Koolpep

fungus said:


> I'd recommend you stay away from all Fiio products. Every item I've purchased from this company offers nothing but poor quality, inconsistent quality control that eventually leads to the damage of my gear


 

 Wow, some bad experiences with Fiio products here. While I have the C5D and honestly think it's one of the best portable DAC/Amps you can buy, I had some good experiences with Fiio, the X3 and X5 are really good so far. The E1 was crap, the E02i failed pretty quickly, the D7 was great. However, the C5D sounds amazing, black black black background and quality is rock solid.


----------



## gozyla86

I have the JDS C5D not long ago (few weeks). Suddenly last week, my music got cut out from the left side. At first, i though it was the headphone prob. But after try many times with different head/earphones, all the left side sound got cut off. Without the C5D, everything is normal.
 Is it a faulty product or some other reason?
  
 Thanks


----------



## palermo

But, newer FiiO is better, IMO.


----------



## Koolpep

Back on topic. The C5D:
  
  


gozyla86 said:


> I have the JDS C5D not long ago (few weeks). Suddenly last week, my music got cut out from the left side. At first, i though it was the headphone prob. But after try many times with different head/earphones, all the left side sound got cut off. Without the C5D, everything is normal.
> Is it a faulty product or some other reason?
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 It seems to be an issue with the C5D. But let's first rule out the connections and cables: How do you feed the C5D? Via USB from a PC/Mac or from a iPhone/Android? If yes then it's likely to be the C5D internals. If you are feeding it with a 3.5mm line out from somewhere else, I would check with a different cable. You can certainly rule out the headphones as you already tested them from different sources. 
  
 Since you said you have yours for only a few weeks, it's still under warranty and I would contact JDSLabs and ask for the best way to return it after your ruled out faulty cables/connections. 
  
 Keep us updated, cheers,
 K
  
 EDIT: To the moderators, thanks for cleaning this thread up!


----------



## ThurstonX

koolpep said:


> EDIT: To the moderators, thanks for cleaning this thread up!


 
  
*+1*


----------



## s0ckpupp3t

Kudos to JDS Labs for great customer service.
  
 I had to send back my C5D for repair.  No hassle RMA and they fixed it and put it back into shipping within 1 day of receipt.  
  
 When I got the package back, I found an extra enclosure and a note saying that the enclosure got dropped during repair so they replaced it with shiny new one.  Honestly, I looked at my old enclosure and I didn't see any damage so if they had just not said anything I would have been none the wiser!
  
 All too often only the squeaky wheels get heard on the forums so I wanted to get on the record for a job well done.
  
 Thanks JDS!


----------



## Fungus

Does jds lab offer life time warranty for the c5/c5d?


----------



## s0ckpupp3t

fungus said:


> Does jds lab offer life time warranty for the c5/c5d?


 
 From JDS Labs' website:
  

Headphone Amplifiers and DACs are fully guaranteed against parts and manufacturing defects for *2 years* from purchase. Accidental damages and out-of-warranty amplifiers may be repaired at the discretion of a JDS Labs engineer. Buyer is responsible for shipping expenses to JDS Labs.


----------



## Digital7

fungus said:


> Does jds lab offer life time warranty for the c5/c5d?



 


3 years.


----------



## Mooses9

digital7 said:


> fungus said:
> 
> 
> > Does jds lab offer life time warranty for the c5/c5d?
> ...


 
 thats a great deal for a great product.


----------



## Fungus

mooses9 said:


> thats a great deal for a great product.


 
 Not really, Ray Samuels offers life time warranty for all his products.


----------



## Fungus

I wonder if my c5 will drive my soon to arrive t1's adequately. I'm only been using iems with my c5 so far.


----------



## Mooses9

fungus said:


> Not really, Ray Samuels offers life time warranty for all his products.


 
 yeah however the price is much much higher. i loved RSA blackbird sr-71B however the price is much higher than the c5 or c5d they are both excellent amplifiers.


----------



## Digital7

fungus said:


> I wonder if my c5 will drive my soon to arrive t1's adequately. I'm only been using iems with my c5 so far.


 
  
 It certainly will, BUT ONLY if you switch it to 'high-gain' mode. I get the impression that nearly any overhead headphone needs high-gain to drive it properly, because the C5 on standard-gain although enough to drive the headphone, is not enough to really drive the headphone if you know what i mean, and i'm not talking about volume.
  
 My lowly Shure sounds like it's struggling in some way, languishing in the sonics when my C5 is on standard-gain, but as soon as i switch to high-gain... BANG! Poise, dynamics, weight, speed, articulation, drive, everything.


----------



## Fungus

digital7 said:


> It certainly will, BUT ONLY if you switch it to 'high-gain' mode. I get the impression that nearly any overhead headphone needs high-gain to drive it properly, because the C5 on standard-gain although enough to drive the headphone, is not enough to really drive the headphone if you know what i mean, and i'm not talking about volume.
> 
> My lowly Shure sounds like it's struggling in some way, languishing in the sonics when my C5 is on standard-gain, but as soon as i switch to high-gain... BANG! Poise, dynamics, weight, speed, articulation, drive, everything.


 
 Fingers crossed. I know for sure when I listened to it with my hd25-13 with the bass boost on and set to max volume on high gain, there was noticeable bass distortion.


----------



## Digital7

fungus said:


> Fingers crossed. I know for sure when I listened to it with my hd25-13 with the bass boost on and set to max volume on high gain, there was noticeable bass distortion.



 


If i was you i would switch-off bass-gain from the C5. Any bass-gain from any Amp/DAC is just artificial and kind of ugly, never ideal. 

If you want heavy-bass then it is preferable to get a headphone which already has heavy-bass. The Yamaha Pro 500 is a near perfect performing headphone from lower-mids all the way up to treble-range, the pro 500 gives true audiophile performance and detail and balance, but it has a bit of bass beefiness beyond neutral, which would suit you perfectly, and the cheaper Yamaha Pro 400 has the same sonic-signature as the Pro 500 but with even more bass beefiness, that way you wouldn't need to resort to artificial Amp/DAC bass-boost.

The neutral bass setting on the C5 gives exactly what is in the original song. At maximum volume with full-gain it would be your headphone distorting.


----------



## Fungus

digital7 said:


> fungus said:
> 
> 
> > Fingers crossed. I know for sure when I listened to it with my hd25-13 with the bass boost on and set to max volume on high gain, there was noticeable bass distortion.
> ...


 
 I don't use the bass boost function but bass distortion was clearly present at max volume.


----------



## Digital7

fungus said:


> I don't use the bass boost function but bass distortion was clearly present at max volume.



 


The headphone would be at fault, struggling to handle the power, there's no way the C5 would be producing distortion. Quite a few headphones have an issue with this; can't cope with high-load drive.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

fungus said:


> I don't use the bass boost function but bass distortion was clearly present at max volume.


 
 What cans would require the C5D at max volume? I suppose you're refering to those $1000-and-more flagship?


----------



## Fungus

williamleonhart said:


> What cans would require the C5D at max volume? I suppose you're refering to those $1000-and-more flagship?


 
 My hd25-13's


----------



## Koolpep

fungus said:


> My hd25-13's


 

 Don't want to derail the thread but what is your experience with these, I mean HD25 but with 600 friggin Ohm - whoooohooo. How do they compare to the standard HD25-1 that I own with 70 Ohms?
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## Fungus

koolpep said:


> Don't want to derail the thread but what is your experience with these, I mean HD25 but with 600 friggin Ohm - whoooohooo. How do they compare to the standard HD25-1 that I own with 70 Ohms?
> 
> Cheers,
> K


 
 They sound similar but 


koolpep said:


> Don't want to derail the thread but what is your experience with these, I mean HD25 but with 600 friggin Ohm - whoooohooo. How do they compare to the standard HD25-1 that I own with 70 Ohms?
> 
> Cheers,
> K


 
 I remember is sounded similar to the standard hd25's but with zero treble peeks and with more sub but less mid bass. Overall smoother and more refined.  I never owned all three at the same time so take my opinion with a grain of salt.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

fungus said:


> My hd25-13's


 
 A rare breed of headphones indeed. I never suspected Sennheiser (or any other company) will make a portable headphone with such high impedence. But again they're professional DJ hps.


----------



## jmbgator

Hi Everyone!
  
 I just got the C5D's today and they sound great! My setup right now is iPhone 5S -> C5D -> Shure 846.  One question that I have though is what cables do you use to connect the C5D to the iPhone to ensure maximum portability while on the go? I understand that I need the camera connection kit and a Micro - USB cable. However, when combined, the length of these two cables are too big to fit both my phone, the dac/amp, and the cables in my pocket.  Do you guys recommend any cables that are smaller and more portable to be used while on the go?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Mmet

jmbgator said:


> Hi Everyone!
> 
> I just got the C5D's today and they sound great! My setup right now is iPhone 5S -> C5D -> Shure 846.  One question that I have though is what cables do you use to connect the C5D to the iPhone to ensure maximum portability while on the go? I understand that I need the camera connection kit and a Micro - USB cable. However, when combined, the length of these two cables are too big to fit both my phone, the dac/amp, and the cables in my pocket.  Do you guys recommend any cables that are smaller and more portable to be used while on the go?
> 
> Thanks!



Want to ask you .. You noticed a difference in sound between the c5d and the phone out ? Could you describe more the difference please..


----------



## Digital7

jmbgator said:


> Hi Everyone!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


You will need a proprietary "Lightning to USB" cable; Amazon sell Apple certified ones, and cheaper than Apple. Other third-party ones are known not to work properly.


----------



## Digital7

mmet said:


> Want to ask you .. You noticed a difference in sound between the c5d and the phone out ? Could you describe more the difference please..



 


There is a difference, yes, not a huge difference, but noticeable; the C5D is pure class, and it has more power to drive the headphone properly. An iPhone is capable of driving the headphone, but not to full performance (this is not just talking about 'volume'), the C5D has a very neutral DAC and plenty of power to drive the headphone correctly. However, it is more preferable to have a very good headphone too. You need both if you want supreme sound, a really good neutral powerful DAC/Amp like the C5D, and a really good neutral and balanced headphone. PM me if you want to know what headphone i recommend.


----------



## psonoda

I have a similar setup.  I am using the camera connect kit for iPhone 5/6 and this little adapter.  
  
  

 I think I found it on ebay.  
  
 Here is one version
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Connector-2-0-A-Male-to-Mini-B-5-Pin-Male-USB-Adapter-NEW-/391007898146?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5b09e30a22
  
 Here is what it looks like.
  


 Sorry for the crummy photo.  iPad camera.  Ha.


----------



## Koolpep

psonoda said:


> I have a similar setup.  I am using the camera connect kit for iPhone 5/6 and this little adapter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Not bad at all. The best I could come up with was this:


----------



## Mmet

digital7 said:


> mmet said:
> 
> 
> > Want to ask you .. You noticed a difference in sound between the c5d and the phone out ? Could you describe more the difference please..
> ...


 
 thanks a lot


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

There's no other way, AFAIK. You MUST carry the CCK, and taking that into consideration, no matter how small the mUSB cable is, it will still be too cumbersome. Stupid Apple proprietary design.  I suggest you either use a big jacket (if the weather allows it, of course), or buy yourself a shoulder bag. It will make your digital life much easier and you'll have room for over-ear and clip-ons as well. I believe I must have said this somewhere in this thread .


----------



## jmbgator

mmet said:


> Want to ask you .. You noticed a difference in sound between the c5d and the phone out ? Could you describe more the difference please..




Yes and no. I'm new to this community and don't consider my ears trained well enough yet to notice the subtle differences unlike other members in this board. However I must say that with the 846, I notice a big improvement particularly with the crispness of the lows. And when you turn the bass boost on the bass on the 846 really kicks it to another level versus plugging then in straight to phone. 

However, I also have the Shure 535 and didn't notice a huge difference or improvement in plugging into jds versus plugging straight into 5S. 

Again I don't consider my ears trained well enough like some others here, but this is just based on my ears and on the little time that I've used the jds C5D so far. So far I'm happy with it and definitely will use it whenever I want to listen through my 846s.


----------



## RaintoSky

Got the c5d back after switching to 2 dacs!
 Trade it first time coz I prefer my phone's sound to it, turns my my phone has a bit of mid-treble boost compared to c5d, made my dark v-shape headphone's vocal a bit more engaging.
 Now with im70's balanced sound, I am loving the c5d.
 I got the c5d back because the meridian explorer I had has background noise that is present with my im70, honestly I sill hear a bit hiss with the c5d, but it is nothing compared to explorer's, only noticeable when I plug it in, after I wearing it for 10 seconds, it's gone, my brain filtered it out XD


----------



## bflat

jmbgator said:


> Yes and no. I'm new to this community and don't consider my ears trained well enough yet to notice the subtle differences unlike other members in this board. However I must say that with the 846, I notice a big improvement particularly with the crispness of the lows. And when you turn the bass boost on the bass on the 846 really kicks it to another level versus plugging then in straight to phone.
> 
> However, I also have the Shure 535 and didn't notice a huge difference or improvement in plugging into jds versus plugging straight into 5S.
> 
> Again I don't consider my ears trained well enough like some others here, but this is just based on my ears and on the little time that I've used the jds C5D so far. So far I'm happy with it and definitely will use it whenever I want to listen through my 846s.


 
 Yes, for SE846, using the C5/C5D you will immediately clean up the low end muddiness due to proper impedance matching. Even an iPhone has 3-4 Ohm output versus <1 Ohm for C5. SE846 has 9 Ohm input whereas SE535 is 36 Ohm so your observation is spot on.


----------



## bbieringer

A while back I saw a picture of a C5 that was black with neon green inserts. Was that a custom build or did JDS Labs release a C5 with that color scheme at one point in time?


----------



## Law87

hey guys couple questions? is it just me or the C5D DAC and AMP have different sounding?

 and have anyone able to change the Op-amp like a cmoy? shouldnt be hard right?


----------



## jrbdmb

I have a question too.  I am considering the C5 to pair with my iPhone 6, mainly for use at home. One of the things I want to *avoid* is a mediocre volume control pot that creates channel imbalance at lower listening levels - which leaves out most portable amps and reasonably priced desktop amps such as the O2 and the Schiit Magni.  The Asgard 2 at least has a decent Alps 27mm pot, but this is starting to get a bit expensive for what I need (plus I don't really require a hot running class A amp).
  
 What I'm curious about if there are any other sub-$250 amps I could look at that have a good analog or digital potentiometer, or is the C5 really unique with this feature?  Thanks for the info.


----------



## oscarc

jrbdmb said:


> I have a question too.  I am considering the C5 to pair with my iPhone 6, mainly for use at home. One of the things I want to *avoid* is a mediocre volume control pot that creates channel imbalance at lower listening levels - which leaves out most portable amps and reasonably priced desktop amps such as the O2 and the Schiit Magni.  The Asgard 2 at least has a decent Alps 27mm pot, but this is starting to get a bit expensive for what I need (plus I don't really require a hot running class A amp).
> 
> What I'm curious about if there are any other sub-$250 amps I could look at that have a good analog or digital potentiometer, or is the C5 really unique with this feature?  Thanks for the info.


 
 I am not sure about sub-$250, but for $300, the newly released OPPO HA-2 could meet your needs.  
  
https://www.oppodigital.com/headphone-amplifier-ha-2/headphone-amplifier-HA-2-Features.aspx


----------



## illusioned

law87 said:


> hey guys couple questions? is it just me or the C5D DAC and AMP have different sounding?
> 
> and have anyone able to change the Op-amp like a cmoy? shouldnt be hard right?


 
  
 i ordered a version with ad8620 op amp from jds labs but its done by them, so i have no idea if its do-able if you ordered the opa2227 one


----------



## Law87

illusioned said:


> i ordered a version with ad8620 op amp from jds labs but its done by them, so i have no idea if its do-able if you ordered the opa2227 one



 



so you had JDS put in a different op-amp in your C5D?


----------



## illusioned

law87 said:


> illusioned said:
> 
> 
> > i ordered a version with ad8620 op amp from jds labs but its done by them, so i have no idea if its do-able if you ordered the opa2227 one
> ...


 

 its a C5 but yea.


----------



## Happytalk

So after a long commute day from hell here in NYC. I broke off my line in jack of my beloved c5. Is there anyone in NYC that could fix this? My headphone jack is also (seemingly) a little loose on one side. Going away for a while in a couple weeks and need if for the trip. Any help is appreciated!


----------



## Happytalk

Please pm me if you can fix this. Or know someone that can.


----------



## Law87

happytalk said:


> Please pm me if you can fix this. Or know someone that can.


 
  
  
 why dont u send it back to JDS lab?


----------



## Happytalk

I don't know if there is enough time. I need it before the 24th. I imagine they are quite busy.


----------



## s0ckpupp3t

happytalk said:


> I don't know if there is enough time. I need it before the 24th. I imagine they are quite busy.


 
 I had to turn in my C5D for repair and the turnaround time was 1 day.  I would contact JDS and see what they can do for you.  Customer service at JDS is exemplary.


----------



## Happytalk

s0ckpupp3t said:


> I had to turn in my C5D for repair and the turnaround time was 1 day.  I would contact JDS and see what they can do for you.  Customer service at JDS is exemplary.




Ok. Great! Thanks.


----------



## FiJAAS

Here is pictures of my setup.

Apple iPod Classic 7th Generation
Audio Minor Silver/Copper LOD
JDS Labs C5 Portable Headphone Amplifire 
Audio Technica ATH-M50


----------



## s0ckpupp3t

fijaas said:


> Here is pictures of my setup.
> 
> Apple iPod Classic 7th Generation
> Audio Minor Silver/Copper LOD
> ...


 
 God that looks gorgeous.  Awesome pictures.  
  
 By the way, what case are you using on the C5?  Actually, no offense but is that just shelf liner wrapped around the C5?   Still looks great and more importantly looks protective.


----------



## ZSamuels28

Just got my C5D today, yummy yummy bass


----------



## FiJAAS

s0ckpupp3t said:


> God that looks gorgeous.  Awesome pictures.
> 
> By the way, what case are you using on the C5?  Actually, no offense but is that just shelf liner wrapped around the C5?   Still looks great and more importantly looks protective.




Thanks!

Yes it's shelf liner, I ordered it from Amazon. The item is called Con-Tact Grip Premium Non-Adhesive Shelf Liner, 12-Inch by 4-Feet, Black. Here is the link http://www.amazon.com/Con-Tact-Premium-Non-Adhesive-Non-Slip-12-Inches/dp/B001AH8PLI

I got the idea from my good friend zombywoof
He deserves all the credit. Here is his post about using the shelf line with his C5.




zombywoof said:


> I have not heard the C5 with the Vsonic, but someone else probably has this combo and can comment.
> 
> Getting the music from the iPod to the C5 can be accomplished in two ways.  You can use a 3.5 mm >3.5 mm cable.  This takes amplified sound from the iPod headphone out jack, and feeds into the input on the C5 where it is amplified again.  In this arrangement the volume control on the iPod will still be functional, as will the volume control on the amp.  The preferred way, and the way to get the full advantage of the generally superior amplifier in the C5 compared to the amplifier in the iPod, is to use a line out dock cable which is a 30 pin (for docking connector on iPod) > 3.5 mm.  In this arrangement, you will bypass the amplifier on the iPod (the volume control on the iPod will no longer function), and be feeding an unamplified analog signal directly to the C5, taking full advantage of the SQ of the C5.  A photo of my rig is below.  If you are going to go the route of an external amplifier, the small investment (about $10 on Amazon) for the Fiio L9 cable is necessary, in my opinion.  (Just type Fiio L9 in the Amazon search box.)  If you decide to go with the C5, I believe JDS Labs sells the Fiio L9 on their site.
> 
> ...







zombywoof said:


> The material I used is a perforated foam shelf liner that my wife had left over from the kitchen cabinets.  Actually, I believe it is similar to the material identified by H2O, but sold in a roll.  All I did was cut a rectangle the same length as the C5, and with width long enough to wrap completely around the C5.  I wrapped the piece of shelf liner around the C5, temporarily held the ends together with some electrical tape, and placed my iPod on top of the taped side.  With the elastic band in place everything stays together nicely.  Here is another pic that with a better view of the material.
> 
> 
> A happy coincidence that my C5 is red and the shelf liner was red.  One would not want to go out of the house with a portable rig that is not color coordinated.


----------



## zombywoof

Hey, FiJAAS...thanks for the kudos.  My Classic > C5 set-up is still going strong, and continues to be my "go to" rig.  I have added the B&W P7's to my collection since the earlier post, and they really come alive with the C5.  I like the looks of the Audio Minor LOD cable.


----------



## zombywoof

Here are some pics.


----------



## FiJAAS

zombywoof said:


> Hey, FiJAAS...thanks for the kudos.  My Classic > C5 set-up is still going strong, and continues to be my "go to" rig.  I have added the B&W P7's to my collection since the earlier post, and they really come alive with the C5.  I like the looks of the Audio Minor LOD cable.




No problem good sir. 

To me the Audio Minor cable is leagues better than the Fiio L3 and L9 that I've purchased. I have the Audio Minor Sliver/Copper LOD and the soundstage is more clearer, wider and the bass is full yet clean and tight than any of the Fiio cables I tried. I'm actually going to get a pure silver cable from Audio Minor very soon. You should check them out on EBay.


----------



## zombywoof

The AudioMinor LOD cables do look very nice, and the price is attractive...tempting, even.


----------



## ThurstonX

fijaas said:


> No problem good sir.
> 
> To me the Audio Minor cable is leagues better than the Fiio L3 and L9 that I've purchased. I have the Audio Minor Sliver/Copper LOD and the soundstage is more clearer, wider and the bass is full yet clean and tight than any of the Fiio cables I tried. I'm actually going to get a pure silver cable from Audio Minor very soon. You should check them out on EBay.


 
  
 Thanks for the tip on the Audio Minor cables.  I'll be interested to read your impressions of the silver version and how it compares to the silver/copper version.  They're sitting in my eBay wishlist, along with the copper version.


----------



## FiJAAS

thurstonx said:


> Thanks for the tip on the Audio Minor cables.  I'll be interested to rad your impressions of the silver version and how it compares to the silver/copper version.  They're sitting in my eBay wishlist, along with the copper version.




Glad I could help!


----------



## ZSamuels28

Thinking of replacing my 32 ohm Beyerdynamic drivers with 600 ohms, can the C5D drive them?

EDIT: Talked to someone at JDS labs and they said the 600 ohms could be driven at a decent volume; however it would be better to go with the 250 since 600s are quite power hungry and I probably won't notice an audible difference.

Any input?


----------



## bflat

zsamuels28 said:


> Thinking of replacing my 32 ohm Beyerdynamic drivers with 600 ohms, can the C5D drive them?
> 
> EDIT: Talked to someone at JDS labs and they said the 600 ohms could be driven at a decent volume; however it would be better to go with the 250 since 600s are quite power hungry and I probably won't notice an audible difference.
> 
> Any input?


 
 I doubt it. I tried my T5P with a 100 ohm adapter (132 total) and needed to hit "+" a lot to get a good sound level on high gain. Since the control is digital, I'm not sure what percent of max I had to go. But in general 600 ohm is going to need a full on desktop amp for best results. I don't really know of any battery powered amps that can tackle 600 ohm effortlessly.


----------



## ZSamuels28

That's what I thought, he said it could drive them at about 110 db but it would be a tough drive lol
  
 Oh also, I broke the driver on my 32 Ohm DT770s so is it worth it to get new drivers at about $58/piece and go 250 ohm or just buy a new pair of headphones lol?


----------



## Happytalk

Well. My C5 has been great since I got it. However I snapped off my line in jack recently during one of our big snowstorms in NYC. One of those days where it takes 2 and 1/2 hours to go thirty blocks and when public transport is the only real safe option. Once you're on you're a puzzle piece and once you're off you're slipping and sliding on the street. Can't say I know when it broke, but John and the team at jds labs just took care of it in a day, and let's just say the price was so reasonable. I didn't feel a thing. Thanks to jds labs for making the next several months that much more enjoyable.


----------



## slackerpo

happytalk said:


> Well. My C5 has been great since I got it. However I snapped off my line in jack recently during one of our big snowstorms in NYC. One of those days where it takes 2 and 1/2 hours to go thirty blocks and when public transport is the only real safe option. Once you're on you're a puzzle piece and once you're off you're slipping and sliding on the street. Can't say I know when it broke, but John and the team at jds labs just took care of it in a day, and let's just say the price was so reasonable. I didn't feel a thing. Thanks to jds labs for making the next several months that much more enjoyable.


 
  
 nice


----------



## s0ckpupp3t

happytalk said:


> Well. My C5 has been great since I got it. However I snapped off my line in jack recently during one of our big snowstorms in NYC. One of those days where it takes 2 and 1/2 hours to go thirty blocks and when public transport is the only real safe option. Once you're on you're a puzzle piece and once you're off you're slipping and sliding on the street. Can't say I know when it broke, but John and the team at jds labs just took care of it in a day, and let's just say the price was so reasonable. I didn't feel a thing. Thanks to jds labs for making the next several months that much more enjoyable.


 
 Glad JDS came through for you.


----------



## Happytalk

s0ckpupp3t said:


> Glad JDS came through for you.




Thanks for the tip. I really appreciate it. I would have been apprehensive since I bought it secondhand, but they went above and beyond, regardless.


----------



## Law87

well....I just send my C5D in for op-amp swap, even though its in John hand but he said its not a guaranteed so I am a little nervous. I currently have the Pico Slim powering my Westone W60, the one thing about the slim is no harshness in sound, it small and its very portable. The mid-hi is "different" than the C5D with OPA2227, by different meaning it slightly recessed but its not bad or good, it just different, the soundstage is a little smaller, the bass is more punchy. I cant wait to hear teh AD8620 in my C5D.


----------



## TonySunshine

Is it an option to get the C5D with an AD620 now? How much did it cost to get your opamp rolled?
  
 Quote:


law87 said:


> well....I just send my C5D in for op-amp swap, even though its in John hand but he said its not a guaranteed so I am a little nervous. I currently have the Pico Slim powering my Westone W60, the one thing about the slim is no harshness in sound, it small and its very portable. The mid-hi is "different" than the C5D with OPA2227, by different meaning it slightly recessed but its not bad or good, it just different, the soundstage is a little smaller, the bass is more punchy. I cant wait to hear teh AD8620 in my C5D.


----------



## Law87

tonysunshine said:


>


 
 you have to ask John, he doesn't recommend it. I have to order the opamp and have it send to him also, as far as price I don't know yet.


----------



## fabifri

hi,
  
 i have a question regarding the battery runtime of the C5D.
 for me there is no chance to come near to the claimed 6-8 hours.
 I tried today with a fresh loaded battery and after 4 hours of constant listening (while train travelling), the green LEDs started to flash. I did not try to wait until the amp switches off, but really, i would not expect another 4 hours...
  
 what's your typical battery runtime?
  
 kind regards
 Fabian


----------



## Law87

fabifri said:


> hi,
> 
> i have a question regarding the battery runtime of the C5D.
> for me there is no chance to come near to the claimed 6-8 hours.
> ...


 
  
  
 I get 7-8 but I send mine in and have John check it out, should come back shortly.


----------



## ZSamuels28

Anyone have an issue with their JDS C5D where it pauses during songs? Probably just this crappy computer unable to handle it haha. I'll try on my iPhone and see if it does the same thing.


----------



## bflat

zsamuels28 said:


> Anyone have an issue with their JDS C5D where it pauses during songs? Probably just this crappy computer unable to handle it haha. I'll try on my iPhone and see if it does the same thing.


 

 Highly doubtful that it's your C5D. There are numerous things your PC or Mac can do to temporarily cut off data to your DAC. Some of the simple things are:
  
 Bad cable - try different cable
 Power management kicking in - disable power management
 Conflict with background app - shutdown as many apps as you can
 Noisy USB power - try to connect via powered usb hub if you have one. Or get a Wyrd decrapifier ffrom Schiit which is basically a powered hub with just on port.


----------



## s0ckpupp3t

zsamuels28 said:


> Anyone have an issue with their JDS C5D where it pauses during songs? Probably just this crappy computer unable to handle it haha. I'll try on my iPhone and see if it does the same thing.


 
 Is the C5D actually making the song stop or are you saying that the sound periodically cuts out for a second or so while playing a song?  
  
 If the later, I had that happen on my Windows laptop with the C5D but not my Macbook.  Turns out that it was caused by the C5D running in USB asynchronous mode.  I had JDS change the C5D software to go back to USB adaptive mode and it fixed the issue.


----------



## ZSamuels28

s0ckpupp3t said:


> Is the C5D actually making the song stop or are you saying that the sound periodically cuts out for a second or so while playing a song?
> 
> If the later, I had that happen on my Windows laptop with the C5D but not my Macbook.  Turns out that it was caused by the C5D running in USB asynchronous mode.  I had JDS change the C5D software to go back to USB adaptive mode and it fixed the issue.


 
 It is the later, for example say I'm listening to spotify, when I resize the window the music will continue but the sound will cut out. When I have the program open in front of me it seems like everything works fine. Does changing the software to USB adaptive mode affect the SQ at all?
  
 Edit: I talked to John and he said that he sees this in about 1/100 people and it happens on random computers and they don't know why. He said that if they were to remake the C5D they would have it run in adaptive mode because it does not affect performance at all and it would eliminate that problem...
  
 Also, what is the point of the line-in jack? Why would you ever want to bypass the DAC? Should I have John switch this port over to a line-out for the DAC so I can have the DAC go to a separate AMP if I want?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## bflat

zsamuels28 said:


> It is the later, for example say I'm listening to spotify, when I resize the window the music will continue but the sound will cut out. When I have the program open in front of me it seems like everything works fine. Does changing the software to USB adaptive mode affect the SQ at all?
> 
> Edit: I talked to John and he said that he sees this in about 1/100 people and it happens on random computers and they don't know why. He said that if they were to remake the C5D they would have it run in adaptive mode because it does not affect performance at all and it would eliminate that problem...
> 
> ...


 

 Interesting. I wouldn't assume the adaptive mode solves everything in all cases. That would just temporarily lower the bit rate during those "glitches" instead of pausing sound altogether. It may or many not be perceivable depending on how high of a bit rate you are running and depth of the buffer frames. I still think it's worth your time to try to figure out what the root cause is on your PC since you are likely to run into this issue with other DACs. Hopefully Windows 10 will have better audio USB support like Mac.
  
 On your line out question - again depending on what DAC you have in your PC and what bit rate you run, there may be little to no difference in sound quality with the C5D. However, the amp circuit in just about 99% of the time will be far superior on an external device than inside your PC. This is also where the sound gets "colored" so you will notice a major difference in sound quality and volume. This is why I opted for a C5 for my Macbook Pro and iPhone. To my ears with SE846 IEMs, I didn't hear the need for another DAC and saved a few bucks in the process. Of course if your internal DAC maxes out at 44K/16-bit and you want to eventually go with 96K 24-bit, then you have to use an external DAC.
  
 Ironically, if you find your PC DAC to have the specs you need for your music, going to line in mode on your C5D will completely resolve your USB issue. Give it a try or even a blind test. If you do, just set your PC volume to 100% and control the headphone volume just through your C5D control in both DAC and Amp mode.


----------



## ZSamuels28

bflat said:


> Interesting. I wouldn't assume the adaptive mode solves everything in all cases. That would just temporarily lower the bit rate during those "glitches" instead of pausing sound altogether. It may or many not be perceivable depending on how high of a bit rate you are running and depth of the buffer frames. I still think it's worth your time to try to figure out what the root cause is on your PC since you are likely to run into this issue with other DACs. Hopefully Windows 10 will have better audio USB support like Mac.
> 
> On your line out question - again depending on what DAC you have in your PC and what bit rate you run, there may be little to no difference in sound quality with the C5D. However, the amp circuit in just about 99% of the time will be far superior on an external device than inside your PC. This is also where the sound gets "colored" so you will notice a major difference in sound quality and volume. This is why I opted for a C5 for my Macbook Pro and iPhone. To my ears with SE846 IEMs, I didn't hear the need for another DAC and saved a few bucks in the process. Of course if your internal DAC maxes out at 44K/16-bit and you want to eventually go with 96K 24-bit, then you have to use an external DAC.
> 
> Ironically, if you find your PC DAC to have the specs you need for your music, going to line in mode on your C5D will completely resolve your USB issue. Give it a try or even a blind test. If you do, just set your PC volume to 100% and control the headphone volume just through your C5D control in both DAC and Amp mode.


 
 So should I send the unit back to switch it over to adaptive mode or would it affect the sound at all? I would rather have the DAC component if I can with this computer but I guess worst case I can just use the analog line in on my C5D. I was a bit confused with the line-in/line-out thing...
  
 The way it ships the line-in is an analog line in so I could go from my computer or speaker system to 3.5mm into the C5D and have the sound amped (no DAC because the connection is analog) and then have it come out the headphone jack
  
 What would be the point of having 2 line-outs if I had the jack switched to line-out...


----------



## bflat

zsamuels28 said:


> So should I send the unit back to switch it over to adaptive mode or would it affect the sound at all? I would rather have the DAC component if I can with this computer but I guess worst case I can just use the analog line in on my C5D. I was a bit confused with the line-in/line-out thing...
> 
> The way it ships the line-in is an analog line in so I could go from my computer or speaker system to 3.5mm into the C5D and have the sound amped (no DAC because the connection is analog) and then have it come out the headphone jack
> 
> What would be the point of having 2 line-outs if I had the jack switched to line-out...


 

 If all you are changing is the USB mode in the C5D and all else remains the same, there will be no change in SQ but you should get continuous sound instead of pauses. Even if that doesn't totally fix your problem, there is major and equal debates on better SQ between true asynchronous versus adaptive synchronous. Since there is no consensus, I think it's safe to assume there is practical difference in SQ. Just one more thing to consider - if you are hell bent on solving the root issue, then leaving your USB mode as is would be a heck of a lot easier to diagnose then trying to listen subtle bit rate changes during those glitches.
  
 As for 2 line out, you may want to go ahead and make that change so you have some future expandability. For example, maybe you want a mini tube amp. You would connect your line out from C5D to line in on your tube amp. You don't want to use your headphone out in this case because that itself is powered by an internal amp so pretty much defeats the purpose of wanting to hear a different sound color of a different amp. However, this isn't always the case. JDS may have an exceptionally neutral and clear headphone amp so best to ask them. As long as you don't mind the cost, there is no downside to getting a true line out installed as long as you never see a scenario where you will use your C5D as just an amp.


----------



## ZSamuels28

bflat said:


> If all you are changing is the USB mode in the C5D and all else remains the same, there will be no change in SQ but you should get continuous sound instead of pauses. Even if that doesn't totally fix your problem, there is major and equal debates on better SQ between true asynchronous versus adaptive synchronous. Since there is no consensus, I think it's safe to assume there is practical difference in SQ. Just one more thing to consider - if you are hell bent on solving the root issue, then leaving your USB mode as is would be a heck of a lot easier to diagnose then trying to listen subtle bit rate changes during those glitches.
> 
> As for 2 line out, you may want to go ahead and make that change so you have some future expandability. For example, maybe you want a mini tube amp. You would connect your line out from C5D to line in on your tube amp. You don't want to use your headphone out in this case because that itself is powered by an internal amp so pretty much defeats the purpose of wanting to hear a different sound color of a different amp. However, this isn't always the case. JDS may have an exceptionally neutral and clear headphone amp so best to ask them. As long as you don't mind the cost, there is no downside to getting a true line out installed as long as you never see a scenario where you will use your C5D as just an amp.


 
 Like you said ironically, the line in would fix my asynchronous issue but then I wouldn't be using the DAC. Any ideas as to how to diagnose this issue? Would I notice a change in sound when the bit rate changes?


----------



## bflat

zsamuels28 said:


> Like you said ironically, the line in would fix my asynchronous issue but then I wouldn't be using the DAC. Any ideas as to how to diagnose this issue? Would I notice a change in sound when the bit rate changes?


 

 For Spotify 320 kbps, I doubt you will hear any difference when the adaptive bit rate kicks in. For hi rez FLACs you may notice, but also depends on when it happens. I would not rely on ears to try to discern when these subtle glitches happen. As for trouble shooting, unfortunately I'm not too familiar with how you enable error logging in Windows. On Mac, I just open up console and post the error logs in Apple's forum and within a day or two somebody figures out exactly where the problem is. Maybe Microsoft has such a forum and logging? It's tough on PC since there is no such thing as "standard hardware configuration". Sorry that I can't give you conclusive answers but hopefully this is enough input for you to decide if it's worth your time to find a root cause. If you do figure it out, I'm sure JDS would be very interested to hear what it is and maybe they will even compensate you for it.


----------



## ZSamuels28

bflat said:


> For Spotify 320 kbps, I doubt you will hear any difference when the adaptive bit rate kicks in. For hi rez FLACs you may notice, but also depends on when it happens. I would not rely on ears to try to discern when these subtle glitches happen. As for trouble shooting, unfortunately I'm not too familiar with how you enable error logging in Windows. On Mac, I just open up console and post the error logs in Apple's forum and within a day or two somebody figures out exactly where the problem is. Maybe Microsoft has such a forum and logging? It's tough on PC since there is no such thing as "standard hardware configuration". Sorry that I can't give you conclusive answers but hopefully this is enough input for you to decide if it's worth your time to find a root cause. If you do figure it out, I'm sure JDS would be very interested to hear what it is and maybe they will even compensate you for it.


 
 I can try to find the root cause haha, what about the difference with my Mac or iPhone with adaptive? If they already work in aynch mode will there be any difference with bitrate? I'm torn over getting the line jack switched over to a line-out :/... John said he'd do free shipping


----------



## bflat

zsamuels28 said:


> I can try to find the root cause haha, what about the difference with my Mac or iPhone with adaptive? If they already work in aynch mode will there be any difference with bitrate? I'm torn over getting the line jack switched over to a line-out :/... John said he'd do free shipping


 

 Wow, that's awesome service! Every time I think I've heard of a great service story from JDS, they surpass it! If JDS says no difference with adaptive, I would believe them. In fact they convinced me to just get the C5 so I know they give honest answers instead of trying to get more dollars. This may be flawed logic, so best to confirm with JDS - if your Mac and iPhone are fine now in async mode, then when you change the USB to adaptive, it should never need to adapt so you should get full bit rate 100% of the time.


----------



## ZSamuels28

bflat said:


> Wow, that's awesome service! Every time I think I've heard of a great service story from JDS, they surpass it! If JDS says no difference with adaptive, I would believe them. In fact they convinced me to just get the C5 so I know they give honest answers instead of trying to get more dollars. This may be flawed logic, so best to confirm with JDS - if your Mac and iPhone are fine now in async mode, then when you change the USB to adaptive, it should never need to adapt so you should get full bit rate 100% of the time.


 
 Yeah, John even said himself "asynchronous as a word just sounds better to audiophiles" and that "if he redid the C5D today he would ship it in adaptive mode so it wouldn't have this issue with 1% of people". So in your opinion I should send it back to get it in adaptive mode? Also, I'm torn about the line-out thing lol convince me it's worth it to have them change it.


----------



## bflat

zsamuels28 said:


> Yeah, John even said himself "asynchronous as a word just sounds better to audiophiles" and that "if he redid the C5D today he would ship it in adaptive mode so it wouldn't have this issue with 1% of people". So in your opinion I should send it back to get it in adaptive mode? Also, I'm torn about the line-out thing lol convince me it's worth it to have them change it.


 

 Yeah do it! Get the line out and start looking at really expensive desktop units like a Woo Audio tube amp and Whiplash cables LOL. Seriously, you got the C5D which has the DAC so go ahead and use it. I agree with John. Audiophiles tend to be loners and hermits that hide in their gear caves so "asynchronous" makes them feel more in their comfort zone than synchronous. I'm also following the AK240 thread and I kid you not, there is real debate on stainless steel versus aluminum cases. It's not academic either as there are a lot of dollars in play for the $3K DAP.


----------



## s0ckpupp3t

No perceivable difference in sound between the C5D running in asynch vs. adaptive on my end.  Then again, most of my music listening is done on Spotify 320k.


----------



## Koolpep

zsamuels28 said:


> It is the later, for example say I'm listening to spotify, when I resize the window the music will continue but the sound will cut out. When I have the program open in front of me it seems like everything works fine. Does changing the software to USB adaptive mode affect the SQ at all?
> 
> Edit: I talked to John and he said that he sees this in about 1/100 people and it happens on random computers and they don't know why. He said that if they were to remake the C5D they would have it run in adaptive mode because it does not affect performance at all and it would eliminate that problem...
> *
> ...




I use my C5D currebtly stacked with my DX50. So the line out from the dap goes intonthe C5D and I am in audio heaven. If i listen via my iphone, I use the lightning to usb so I can use bothbDAC and Amp.

Itt's to have options and that is a very good thing. Sometimes you cant bypass the DAC but stikk need the amp.

Cheers,
K


----------



## ZSamuels28

While my C5D is at JDS is there any better DAC I can have them install inside?


----------



## fabifri

zsamuels28 said:


> While my C5D is at JDS is there any better DAC I can have them install inside?


 

 The whole circuit is designed around the PCM5102A pairing up with the SaviAudio USB receiver, outputting the correct data stream to the DAC chip, and also the clocks, power rails and surrounding DAC circuitry. I can't imaging that they can just whack in another DAC chip...


----------



## ZSamuels28

fabifri said:


> The whole circuit is designed around the PCM5102A pairing up with the SaviAudio USB receiver, outputting the correct data stream to the DAC chip, and also the clocks, power rails and surrounding DAC circuitry. I can't imaging that they can just whack in another DAC chip...


 

 True and John told me the DAC in the C5D is one of the best portable DACs (which it is) and even outperforms the ODAC in some areas.


----------



## DCY77

How is the C5 compared to the Cayin C5 or E12A?


----------



## Jetblack08

dcy77 said:


> How is the C5 compared to the Cayin C5 or E12A?


 

 I own the C5 and the Cayin C5... to my ears the C5 is the cleaner sounding of the two. The Cayin is more the powerful of the two. The JDS seems to have better separation. Take that with a grain of salt as I haven't listened to my Cayin enough to know if it is properly burned in... that is you believe in that sort of thing.


----------



## DCY77

^ TY. I appreciate the information.


----------



## Koolpep

dcy77 said:


> How is the C5 compared to the Cayin C5 or E12A?




I have the C5D and the Cayin C5 - the Cayin has a larger soundstage and oodles of power. The c5d is maybe a bit more refined and offers more versatility. 

Both are really really great amps. Currently prefer the Cayin but that's because I currently listen more to full.size headphones. 

So if you want an amp for IEMs I would recommend the c5d. Anything that needs more power. The Cayin.


----------



## ZSamuels28

bflat said:


> Yeah do it! Get the line out and start looking at really expensive desktop units like a Woo Audio tube amp and Whiplash cables LOL. Seriously, you got the C5D which has the DAC so go ahead and use it. I agree with John. Audiophiles tend to be loners and hermits that hide in their gear caves so "asynchronous" makes them feel more in their comfort zone than synchronous. I'm also following the AK240 thread and I kid you not, there is real debate on stainless steel versus aluminum cases. It's not academic either as there are a lot of dollars in play for the $3K DAP.


 
 Adaptive mode fixed my issue, no audible differences (and honestly I wouldn't expect any). Sounds great, just as incredible as before, driving my DT770 250s no problem


----------



## EndersShadow

For a set of Beyerdynamic DT-770 32 ohm headphones will the C5D be powerful enough? Or should I look at the Cayin C5 instead?

I like the thought of a DAC in it since it's gonna be better than my iPhone 6 Plus that's for sure, and being able to use it with my Windows 7 laptop as well saving me from needing another usb dac for the laptop.

I use MediaMonkey to convert my FLAC to decently high resolution 320bps or higher so a better DAC would be nice... But I'm not doing critical listening in my iPhone tbh.

Thoughts appreciated.


----------



## bflat

endersshadow said:


> For a set of Beyerdynamic DT-770 32 ohm headphones will the C5D be powerful enough? Or should I look at the Cayin C5 instead?
> 
> I like the thought of a DAC in it since it's gonna be better than my iPhone 6 Plus that's for sure, and being able to use it with my Windows 7 laptop as well saving me from needing another usb dac for the laptop.
> 
> ...




Yes it will. C5 amp was able to drive my 32 ohm T5P fine with low gain.


----------



## Koolpep

endersshadow said:


> For a set of Beyerdynamic DT-770 32 ohm headphones will the C5D be powerful enough? Or should I look at the Cayin C5 instead?
> 
> I like the thought of a DAC in it since it's gonna be better than my iPhone 6 Plus that's for sure, and being able to use it with my Windows 7 laptop as well saving me from needing another usb dac for the laptop.
> 
> ...




I have both, the Cayin C5 and the C5D.

Both will be fine and since you need the versatility the C5D offers, go for it.

Cheers,
K


----------



## jitsion

Can the Cayin drive a Beyer 600ohms with ease? I believe the C5D has the appropriate ratings for 600ohms


----------



## ZSamuels28

jitsion said:


> Can the Cayin drive a Beyer 600ohms with ease? I believe the C5D has the appropriate ratings for 600ohms


 
 I talked to John at JDS and he said that theoretically the C5D COULD drive the 600ohm Beyers, however it would only drive it up to something like 120db or around that if you do the math, which is a decent listening volume. The problem is that the C5D would be struggling to drive it. I wanted to try it but decided to go with the 250s


----------



## slackerpo

zsamuels28 said:


> I talked to John at JDS and he said that theoretically the C5D COULD drive the 600ohm Beyers, however it would only drive it up to something like 120db or around that if you do the math, which is a decent listening volume. The problem is that the C5D would be struggling to drive it. I wanted to try it but decided to go with the 250s


 
  
 for what its worth, i get a decent experience driving my HD 650 (300ohm)


----------



## White Lotus

Received my C5 - 
  
 Never thought I could like an amp so much! The build quality and SQ are great, and I'm happy with the amount of volume steps there are.
  
 Haven't tried it with super sensitive IEM's just yet.


----------



## H20Fidelity

white lotus said:


> Received my C5 -
> 
> Never thought I could like an amp so much! The build quality and SQ are great, and I'm happy with the amount of volume steps there are.
> 
> Haven't tried it with super sensitive IEM's just yet.




It's a great amp, just like C421 is. I'll pick up C5 one day, just waiting for that special price to pop up.


----------



## Law87

Hey all, just want to report back. A week ago, I had asked John to change my OPAMP to AD8620, I was kind of hesitant at first but it turn out very well. I dint like the presentation of the OP2227, it was too up front for my taste, it get kind of tiresome after a while.

 I went ahead with the procedure, and I am very happy to report back that my C5D now have a much better soundstage and imaging. the midrange forwardness is kind of still there but everything seems to "have room to breath" if that make any sense. The amp can still power my Alpha Dog to a certain degree without clipping but the biggest change was from my Westone W60, my goodness how the sound change! soundstage is good, the separation is awesome! the bass isnt as impactful but its not all over the place (not saying the OP2227 was) I am not a bass head so I don't really care.

Long story short, if you are an IEM user and/or desire a larger soundstage/imaging and separation, ask john for the transformation.


----------



## Jetblack08

law87 said:


> Hey all, just want to report back. A week ago, I had asked John to change my OPAMP to AD8620, I was kind of hesitant at first but it turn out very well. I dint like the presentation of the OP2227, it was too up front for my taste, it get kind of tiresome after a while.
> 
> I went ahead with the procedure, and I am very happy to report back that my C5D now have a much better soundstage and imaging. the midrange forwardness is kind of still there but everything seems to "have room to breath" if that make any sense. The amp can still power my Alpha Dog to a certain degree without clipping but the biggest change was from my Westone W60, my goodness how the sound change! soundstage is good, the separation is awesome! the bass isnt as impactful but its not all over the place (not saying the OP2227 was) I am not a bass head so I don't really care.
> 
> Long story short, if you are an IEM user and/or desire a larger soundstage/imaging and separation, ask john for the transformation.


 

 Who is John and can he do this for the regular C5 amp?


----------



## Law87

jetblack08 said:


> Who is John and can he do this for the regular C5 amp?


 
 John is the owner(?) of JDS lab, and yes if you send him an email, tell him what you want, buy the opamp, send the unit and opamp to his office.


----------



## s0ckpupp3t

law87 said:


> John is the owner(?) of JDS lab, and yes if you send him an email, tell him what you want, buy the opamp, send the unit and opamp to his office.


 
 I think "JDS" is John's initials.


----------



## Law87

s0ckpupp3t said:


> I think "JDS" is John's initials.




Yes john D seaber not sure what D stand for.


----------



## illusioned

law87 said:


> Hey all, just want to report back. A week ago, I had asked John to change my OPAMP to AD8620, I was kind of hesitant at first but it turn out very well. I dint like the presentation of the OP2227, it was too up front for my taste, it get kind of tiresome after a while.
> 
> I went ahead with the procedure, and I am very happy to report back that my C5D now have a much better soundstage and imaging. the midrange forwardness is kind of still there but everything seems to "have room to breath" if that make any sense. The amp can still power my Alpha Dog to a certain degree without clipping but the biggest change was from my Westone W60, my goodness how the sound change! soundstage is good, the separation is awesome! the bass isnt as impactful but its not all over the place (not saying the OP2227 was) I am not a bass head so I don't really care.
> 
> Long story short, if you are an IEM user and/or desire a larger soundstage/imaging and separation, ask john for the transformation.


 
  
 phew. it went well.


----------



## H20Fidelity

law87 said:


> Yes john D seaber not sure what D stand for.


 
  
 It might be John Dude Seaber?


----------



## jseaber

h20fidelity said:


> It might be John Dude Seaber?


 
  
 Perhaps we should ask Head-Fi to name future products.


----------



## slackerpo

jseaber said:


> Perhaps we should ask Head-Fi to name future products.


 
  
 foreal?


----------



## H20Fidelity

jseaber said:


> Perhaps we should ask Head-Fi to name future products.




You could release the "JDS Dude 11" amp. 

The amp that goes to 11 with a physodelic 70's casing.


----------



## jseaber

slackerpo said:


> foreal?


 
  
 Foreal.


----------



## AladdinSane

We have a winner.


----------



## slackerpo

jseaber said:


> Foreal.


 
  
 when do we start? 
  
 so... it is confirmed that my c5d would have seem to be faulty from day 1, but it had the audacity of keeping his inner reality at bay, without causing to much havoc...
  
 it couldnt hold it for long though.
  
 now i gotta work my way around on expenses for shipping! im looking at a 100 bucks on send and return fees, crazy...
  
 fear not. my baby is going to beautiful collinsvile in the coming weeks!


----------



## jseaber

slackerpo said:


> when do we start?


 
  
 Soon*™*
  
 Shipping should be 1/10th of that cost--try economy service.


----------



## s0ckpupp3t

jseaber said:


> Soon*™*
> 
> Shipping should be 1/10th of that cost--try economy service.


 
 I would like to submit "Over 9000!" for the name of the next JDS Amp.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiMHTK15Pik


----------



## slackerpo

jseaber said:


> Soon*™*
> 
> Shipping should be 1/10th of that cost--try economy service.


 
  
 that would mean i would have to wait 30 to 50 days for you guys toi recive it, and 30 to 50 days to get it back. not sure i can deal with the anguish.
  
 shipping times are crazy here.
  
 just need some time to gather the cashhh.


----------



## xZayLx

Can someone tell me their impression of se535 with c5d? need something to get the lower end a bit more prounounced so i tought this might help


----------



## slackerpo

xzaylx said:


> Can someone tell me their impression of se535 with c5d? need something to get the lower end a bit more prounounced so i tought this might help


 
  
 i had that combo.
  
 it works really great!


----------



## xZayLx

Thx for the reply n I'm glad to hear that, but can you describe the change in sq a bit?


----------



## Raketen

law87 said:


> Hey all, just want to report back. A week ago, I had asked John to change my OPAMP to AD8620, I was kind of hesitant at first but it turn out very well. I dint like the presentation of the OP2227, it was too up front for my taste, it get kind of tiresome after a while.
> 
> I went ahead with the procedure, and I am very happy to report back that my C5D now have a much better soundstage and imaging. the midrange forwardness is kind of still there but everything seems to "have room to breath" if that make any sense. The amp can still power my Alpha Dog to a certain degree without clipping but the biggest change was from my Westone W60, my goodness how the sound change! soundstage is good, the separation is awesome! the bass isnt as impactful but its not all over the place (not saying the OP2227 was) I am not a bass head so I don't really care.
> 
> Long story short, if you are an IEM user and/or desire a larger soundstage/imaging and separation, ask john for the transformation.


 
 That's interesting. Recently got a C5D and I've noticed similar- with my ATH-IM02 the C5D seems a bit darker/muted details and the stage a little too close compared to my Walkman and Clip- kind of ruins what i love about them. Though, when I tried using it as an amp with the Walkman (not something I'd usually bother with) it didn't seem to alter the overall character very much. Great with my other headphones though, and doesn't hiss or pick up laptop noise like my previous DAC, so relatively happy. The one comment I found made it seem like swapping the OPAMP is a somewhat delicate operation (didn't make clear if it was soldered to the board or not either).


----------



## Fungus

I was in shock by the amount of bass distortion with bass boost on and set to high gain, volume set to 5 steps below max. 
 Maybe my c5 is faulty?


----------



## White Lotus

fungus said:


> I was in shock by the amount of bass distortion with bass boost on and set to high gain, volume set to 5 steps below max.
> Maybe my c5 is faulty?


 
  
 Mine doesn't have any detectable distortion. 
  
 What headphones are you using? Do they distort with other amplifiers using a bass boost?


----------



## Fungus

white lotus said:


> Mine doesn't have any detectable distortion.
> 
> What headphones are you using? Do they distort with other amplifiers using a bass boost?


 
 I haven't tried it with other amps but this is not the first time, I've noticed the distortion using my hd25-13s. I'm how using it with my T1s. 
 There is not distortion at max volume on high gain with bass boost off.


----------



## Law87

fungus said:


> I haven't tried it with other amps but this is not the first time, I've noticed the distortion using my hd25-13s. I'm how using it with my T1s.
> There is not distortion at max volume on high gain with bass boost off.


 
  
  
 why do you need max volume on high gain? that is wayyyy to high...but that just mean the amp doesnt have enough power.


----------



## Fungus

law87 said:


> why do you need max volume on high gain? that is wayyyy to high...but that just mean the amp doesnt have enough power.


 
 well there's no distortion at max volume on high gain without the bass boost so it can't be the c5 lacking in power unless the bass boost functionality requires more power.


----------



## Koolpep

fungus said:


> I was in shock by the amount of bass distortion with bass boost on and set to high gain, volume set to 5 steps below max.
> Maybe my c5 is faulty?




Some headphones react to that with bass boost or equalization - won't happen with all headphones....

But are you sure you are at safe listening levels? That sounds way too high to me....don't ruin your hearing, be careful. 

Cheers,
K


----------



## Fungus

koolpep said:


> Some headphones react to that with bass boost or equalization - won't happen with all headphones....
> 
> But are you sure you are at safe listening levels? That sounds way too high to me....don't ruin your hearing, be careful.
> 
> ...


 
 The headphone I'm using is high impedance and require more voltage plus the line-out output from my dap is quite low, probably below 2v. 
 I believe it's more to do with the c5 not handling the bass boost well than my t1's distorting at medium volumes.


----------



## Koolpep

fungus said:


> The headphone I'm using is high impedance and require more voltage plus the line-out output from my dap is quite low, probably below 2v.
> I believe it's more to do with the c5 not handling the bass boost well than my t1's distorting at medium volumes.




Could be as well. You could try equalizing the bass with your source and amount with a different amp to see how the headphones react. It can of course just be the combination C5 and T1... I don't have the T1 so can't check but will try next week Ina meet with one...

Cheers,
K


----------



## Law87

fungus said:


> The headphone I'm using is high impedance and require more voltage plus the line-out output from my dap is quite low, probably below 2v.
> I believe it's more to do with the c5 not handling the bass boost well than my t1's distorting at medium volumes.


 
  
  
 my T1 does not distort at medium volumes. I'm not sure if my AD8620 opamp changes anything though.


----------



## Fungus

law87 said:


> my T1 does not distort at medium volumes. I'm not sure if my AD8620 opamp changes anything though.


 
 Are you listening to a bassy track with the volume turned to max or near with the bass boast switched to the middle position? 
 I know for sure it's not my t1's fault.


----------



## Law87

fungus said:


> Are you listening to a bassy track with the volume turned to max or near with the bass boast switched to the middle position?
> I know for sure it's not my t1's fault.


 
 O well in that case yes, I thought you meant at medium volume. Even my Alpha Dog distort, which I thought it just mean its out of juice to power the Headphone.


----------



## Fungus

law87 said:


> O well in that case yes, I thought you meant at medium volume. Even my Alpha Dog distort, which I thought it just mean its out of juice to power the Headphone.


 
 That what I've been trying to prove when I found out about this with my hd25-13 but everyone just said it nooow, it can't be possible.


----------



## Law87

fungus said:


> That what I've been trying to prove when I found out about this with my hd25-13 but everyone just said it nooow, it can't be possible.


 
  
 do you honestly crank it up that high when listening? Jesus.....thats like deafening


----------



## Fungus

law87 said:


> do you honestly crank it up that high when listening? Jesus.....thats like deafening


 
 With my t1's when I listening to quiet recordings, I sometimes turn it up to 90% when driving with the windows down.
 With the hd25-13s, never but it's possible without bleeding my ears if I'm outdoors in an noisy environment.


----------



## Koolpep

fungus said:


> With my t1's when I listening to quiet recordings, I sometimes turn it up to 90% when driving with the windows down.
> With the hd25-13s, never but it's possible without bleeding my ears if I'm outdoors in an noisy environment.




Driving with headphones? Señor Fungus....tsktsktsk




fungus said:


> That what I've been trying to prove when I found out about this with my hd25-13 but everyone just said it nooow, it can't be possible.




Who said that? You said the C5 wouldn't handle the bass boost well or that your C5 was broken - we tried to find out what was wrong, that's all. Turns out nothing is wrong with the T1 and nothing is wrong with the C5 it's just that the T1 requires more juice than the C5 can provide for that scenario. So we all learned something from it, I think that's great. 

Cheers,
K


----------



## Fungus

koolpep said:


> Driving with headphones? Señor Fungus....tsktsktsk
> Who said that? You said the C5 wouldn't handle the bass boost well or that your C5 was broken - we tried to find out what was wrong, that's all. Turns out nothing is wrong with the T1 and nothing is wrong with the C5 it's just that the T1 requires more juice than the C5 can provide for that scenario. So we all learned something from it, I think that's great.
> 
> Cheers,
> K


 
 oh I was referring to the older posts.


----------



## Koolpep

fungus said:


> oh I was referring to the older posts.





Ah, ok. Sorry. Glad we found the reason for this. I will try the C5 with a few high impedance headphones soon, based on what I learned from this I think it's good to be able to identify the distortion from lack of power. 

Thanks,
K


----------



## Kclone

anyone try the C5D with the Etymotic ER 4s?  Thinking about giving this one a try, it has a bass boost which my be helpful for the Ety's.  Any harshness with this amp?  I also have the Shure 846  and the Westone W60s.


----------



## Happytalk

kclone said:


> anyone try the C5D with the Etymotic ER 4s?  Thinking about giving this one a try, it has a bass boost which my be helpful for the Ety's.  Any harshness with this amp?  I also have the Shure 846  and the Westone W60s.




Possibly my favorite headphone listening experiences thus far have been with the C5 and er4s. Amazing. Great synergy!


----------



## Law87

kclone said:


> anyone try the C5D with the Etymotic ER 4s?  Thinking about giving this one a try, it has a bass boost which my be helpful for the Ety's.  Any harshness with this amp?  I also have the Shure 846  and the Westone W60s.


 
  
  
 to me with the original opamp2227 I feel everything a little bit compressed,  the AD8620 opamp really open it up, but the background isnt as "black" if that make sense. no EMI no hiss, it does extremely well with the Westone W60, no bass boost is needed but if you are a bass head, then u could never have enough.


----------



## RedJohn456

Hi folks
  
 I have a chance to pick up a second hand C5 for $80 CDN off of craigslist. I currently have a Fiio E17 and SMSL M2, would the C5 be an upgrade for me? This would be my first foray into a half decent amp so any guidance would be appreciated! 
  
 Thanks in advance


----------



## dbdynsty25

redjohn456 said:


> Hi folks
> 
> I have a chance to pick up a second hand C5 for $80 CDN off of craigslist. I currently have a Fiio E17 and SMSL M2, would the C5 be an upgrade for me? This would be my first foray into a half decent amp so any guidance would be appreciated!
> 
> Thanks in advance


 
  
 Absolutely...the C5 is fantastic.  However, the e17 is a DAC as well, the C5 is only an Amp.  That's the only downside.


----------



## Happytalk

redjohn456 said:


> Hi folks
> 
> I have a chance to pick up a second hand C5 for $80 CDN off of craigslist. I currently have a Fiio E17 and SMSL M2, would the C5 be an upgrade for me? This would be my first foray into a half decent amp so any guidance would be appreciated!
> 
> Thanks in advance




I had both and the c5 (which I still have) won by a landslide. I didnt like the coloration of sound with the e17. Well worth the $80


----------



## Fungus

With the c5, is the bass boost suppose to be at the strongest when the switch is set to the middle position? 
 From what I can hear
 Up position: off
 middle: strongest
 bottom: light boast  
 Is this right?


----------



## Fungus

dbdynsty25 said:


> Absolutely...the C5 is fantastic.  However, the e17 is a DAC as well, the C5 is only an Amp.  That's the only downside.


 
 Get the C5D


----------



## Raketen

fungus said:


> With the c5, is the bass boost suppose to be at the strongest when the switch is set to the middle position?
> From what I can hear
> Up position: off
> middle: strongest
> ...


 

Bottom is strongest on mine, up is off, on mine at least. nevermind, i think you're right... only have my bassy phones on hand, bit hard to tell with them.


----------



## dbdynsty25

fungus said:


> With the c5, is the bass boost suppose to be at the strongest when the switch is set to the middle position?
> From what I can hear
> Up position: off
> middle: strongest
> ...


 
  
 100% correct.


----------



## Fungus

middle setting is unbearably bassy


----------



## White Lotus

fungus said:


> middle setting is unbearably bassy


 
  
 Middle setting is where dreams are made. 
  
 IMHO, the incredible bass boost is what sets the C5 apart from other portable amps.


----------



## Fungus

white lotus said:


> Middle setting is where dreams are made.
> 
> IMHO, the incredible bass boost is what sets the C5 apart from other portable amps.


 
 High volume at middle setting on high gain is where farts are made.


----------



## White Lotus

fungus said:


> High volume at middle setting on high gain is where farts are made.




Count me in!

BTW, my C5 was a gift from a mate. He bought it whilst intoxicated, and had rude words engraved onto the amp. Won't post it here, but it's hilarious when people check out my rig and see it.

Does the engraving cost extra..?


----------



## jseaber

white lotus said:


> Count me in!
> 
> BTW, my C5 was a gift from a mate. He bought it whilst intoxicated, and had rude words engraved onto the amp. Won't post it here, but it's hilarious when people check out my rig and see it.
> 
> Does the engraving cost extra..?


 
  
 Production staff here was curious about that one...


----------



## Happytalk

Now we must see this.


----------



## FiJAAS

Hello I have a question and hoping someone would help.

I love the sound of my JDS Labs C5 amp. I listen to it on high gain and bass. I'm seeking to recreate it's sound in iTunes via EQ. Mind you when I listen to my C5 with the iPod Classic the classic has EQ off and I let the C5 handle the bass. So could someone lead me the right way?


----------



## Fungus

fijaas said:


> Hello I have a question and hoping someone would help.
> 
> I love the sound of my JDS Labs C5 amp. I listen to it on high gain and bass. I'm seeking to recreate it's sound in iTunes via EQ. Mind you when I listen to my C5 with the iPod Classic the classic has EQ off and I let the C5 handle the bass. So could someone lead me the right way?


 
 You could but will most likely have a negative impact on other frequencies. 
 The bass boast at middle setting (max bass) distorts a lot on high gain at loud volumes.


----------



## Guppy_

Without having to scour through 211 pages, can anyone here comment if they've used the C5D with a smartphone and any improvement/benefits they saw?


----------



## dbdynsty25

guppy_ said:


> Without having to scour through 211 pages, can anyone here comment if they've used the C5D with a smartphone and any improvement/benefits they saw?


 
  
 What smartphone?  I makes a difference.  I can't get it to work right on my Galaxy S6, but had no problem on my last few phones, Moto X (2014), Nexus 6, LG G3, Note 4...something is going on w/ Samsungs new chipset that doesn't play nice with ANY amp over the USB OTG connection.
  
 With Apple devices, a camera connection kit is required making the "stack" a big cumbersome but it definitely improves the sound quality and response for all frequencies.  
  
 I can't recommend this amp enough really...for almost all applications, including using it as a DAC from your PC/Mac, improving their sound as well.


----------



## Guppy_

dbdynsty25 said:


> What smartphone?  I makes a difference.  I can't get it to work right on my Galaxy S6, but had no problem on my last few phones, Moto X (2014), Nexus 6, LG G3, Note 4...something is going on w/ Samsungs new chipset that doesn't play nice with ANY amp over the USB OTG connection.
> 
> With Apple devices, a camera connection kit is required making the "stack" a big cumbersome but it definitely improves the sound quality and response for all frequencies.
> 
> I can't recommend this amp enough really...for almost all applications, including using it as a DAC from your PC/Mac, improving their sound as well.


 
 LG G3. what sorta improvements did you notice ?


----------



## dbdynsty25

guppy_ said:


> LG G3. what sorta improvements did you notice ?


 
  
 Much improved bass response and clarity especially (android phones are notoriously weak for the most part).  Much clearer midrange, that ends up being a big more forward in presentation as well.  Treble more or less is the same, only slightly less harsh.  The C5D with it's bass boost really helps...as long as you don't use the "max" setting (in the middle on the switch).  That just muddies the rest of the spectrum up.  Off or in low boost mode, it's a champ.


----------



## Guppy_

dbdynsty25 said:


> Much improved bass response and clarity especially (android phones are notoriously weak for the most part).  Much clearer midrange, that ends up being a big more forward in presentation as well.  Treble more or less is the same, only slightly less harsh.  The C5D with it's bass boost really helps...as long as you don't use the "max" setting (in the middle on the switch).  That just muddies the rest of the spectrum up.  Off or in low boost mode, it's a champ.


 
 Wow been going crazy looking for anyone who had an lg g3.
  
 One question you seem to have owned quite a lot in terms of head fi (Searching through your posts  ) What would you suggest as an evolutionary step up in sound quality of LG G3 and ER4Pt?
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/766487/looking-for-a-dap-to-replace-smartphone


----------



## Malfunkt

Well, I just picked up an ODAC/O2 combo from Mayflower Electronics. I was curious that it might add something to my LCD2 compared to the C5D. 
  
 Try as a might, I don't hear any obvious differences between them! If there are, they are extremely minute or imperceivable. I've also read numerous reports that the C5/C5D may not have enough juice to drive the LCD2. This just doesn't appear to be the case. I'm playing very high quality files, and a range of both classical, jazz to well produced electronica. At one point I was just switching the DACs via USB, but right now I have one connected to my Macbook, the other connected digitally to my iphone 6 playing the same files at the same point and I am able to switch within a second. 
  
 Bass reproduction should be tell tale, but both DACs seem to reproduce sub bass and attack very similar.
  
 I've listened at low levels, to moderate, to loud. I'm listening to the attack of the drums, the depth of reverbs, transient details...
  
 It's possible that the O2 has a deeper bass, almost a more 'bottomless' sound. But I can't be certain if this is just a perceptual distortion.
  
 Either way, they are exceedingly close. You could easily forget which one you are listening to. 
  
 I think the power requirements may be over-rated for the LCD2. I've never listened to the C5D anywhere near its highest capacity, would be deafening. 
  
 If I had to keep one, it would be the C5D, as its just a more convenient piece of kit. I suppose it I plan on getting less efficient headphones in the future, the O2 would make sense to hold on to.
  
 Is there a psychological effect at work here, where we see something small and assume that the larger item is more powerful, more substantial?
  
 Edit: just tested my Steinberg UR22 (a fairly inexpensive studio DAC) and again, extremely close in performance to the dedicated headphone amp/dacs.


----------



## worminater

malfunkt said:


> Well, I just picked up an ODAC/O2 combo from Mayflower Electronics. I was curious that it might add something to my LCD2 compared to the C5D.
> 
> Try as a might, I don't hear any obvious differences between them! If there are, they are extremely minute or imperceivable. I've also read numerous reports that the C5/C5D may not have enough juice to drive the LCD2. This just doesn't appear to be the case. I'm playing very high quality files, and a range of both classical, jazz to well produced electronica. At one point I was just switching the DACs via USB, but right now I have one connected to my Macbook, the other connected digitally to my iphone 6 playing the same files at the same point and I am able to switch within a second.
> 
> ...


 

 Having an a Mayflower O2/ODAC as well as a C5D; my comparison would be that the O2/ODAC seems to have a bit more headroom; just straight up more power. The O2 is also a tad.. sharper. I won't say shrill; but the O2/ODAC is a little harsh with most of the cans in my inventory.
  
 I prefer the O2/ODAC with my HD650s(Makes it a tad bit more forward; which Senn's seem to like), but probably prefer the C5D with everything else, especially IEMs/Grado.


----------



## Law87

worminater said:


> Having an a Mayflower O2/ODAC as well as a C5D; my comparison would be that the O2/ODAC seems to have a bit more headroom; just straight up more power. The O2 is also a tad.. sharper. I won't say shrill; but the O2/ODAC is a little harsh with most of the cans in my inventory.
> 
> I prefer the O2/ODAC with my HD650s(Makes it a tad bit more forward; which Senn's seem to like), but probably prefer the C5D with everything else, especially IEMs/Grado.


 

 indeed C5D with IEM is dead silent and better than my Alo mk3b+ however if I put in my impedance adaptor things reverse 180  of course the C5D is more portable too. I do miss the C5D


----------



## Malfunkt

worminater said:


> Having an a Mayflower O2/ODAC as well as a C5D; my comparison would be that the O2/ODAC seems to have a bit more headroom; just straight up more power. The O2 is also a tad.. sharper. I won't say shrill; but the O2/ODAC is a little harsh with most of the cans in my inventory.
> 
> I prefer the O2/ODAC with my HD650s(Makes it a tad bit more forward; which Senn's seem to like), but probably prefer the C5D with everything else, especially IEMs/Grado.


 
 Hi Worminater,
  
 Well I have had more time to listen back and forth these two DAC/amps. 

 I finally found a track that has helped me really discern the difference between the two. The track is from Kuba - Unsinkable https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ALbx8nAoBU 
  
 It's sparse enough with consistent sonics, a very powerful low-end, and with some high snares mixed in with the rest. On the C5D these are more resonant, and sit in the mix higher. Is this an effect of a more forward presentation from the C5D, or does it have something to do with the amp not having enough juice for this dynamic range (sub bass and highs)? It does seem that the percussion is more 'etched' on the C5D while everything sits more fluidly with the O2/ODAC. Also, with a range of music, I'm getting a sense that the O2 powers the bass deeper and fully. 
  
 It has been quite a difficult challenge to compare these, especially as small changes in volume can create a perceived change. But it does seem that the O2 is a bit more effortless, full and even. Its perhaps a subtle difference, and this isn't conclusive. 

 I'm getting the sense that improvements (DAC/amp) are going to be harder to determine after this point - diminishing returns and all. Already, I'm questioning whether the extra I spent on the O2/ODAC was really worth it. Jumping from the HD650 to the LCD2 was a vast improvement, but this is much harder. 

 I'm quite familiar with the effective dynamic compression has (not file compression) on audio, its used for practically all modern audio productions. I'm getting a bit of that sense here, that the C5D powering the LCD2, may sound just a bit compressed, the sounds not as separate, bass and highs competing for each other.
  
 The changes I'm talking about are minute, and I'm even questioning my own ability to perceive them. They may just be difficult to appreciate.


----------



## jynxed

So this is my first headphone amp /dac, it arrived today and I am really happy with it. 

Tried it with my N5 and Fidelio x2 and the quality improve instantly. It worked perfectly right form the box. The sound is crisper to me, the tinny sound at higher levels has disappeared, much nicer bass even without the boost.

So I was forced to do the only logical and sensable thing - order my 1st pair of decent IEM's (SE535 ltd), can't wait.


----------



## FiJAAS

Can the C5 drive the Audeze EL-8?


----------



## fabifri

I have the C5D now for quite a while, and i am still very happy with it. Today i discovered the "ultimate combination" - The C5D in combination with the HD600 and the BassBoost in the "Low"-Position. That's a match - made in heaven. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 This gives the cold neutrality of the HD600s some warmth and yeah - i was just smiling. Having the HD600 now for over a month, but i did not tried it out with the C5D yet...
  

  
 Battery run-time is still a little bit disappointing, but i use it only on the notebook, and so i can charge it anyway always...
 Thanks for such a good product John! And although my "start" with the C5D was a little bit difficult (3 erased C5D memory due to a bug/glitch while using it with the CCK on the iPhone/iPad), i am now *fully **satisfied *overall. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 kind regards
 Fabian


----------



## Malfunkt

fijaas said:


> Can the C5 drive the Audeze EL-8?


 
 It was able to drive my LCD2 and HD650. Should be even a better match with the EL-8 given its low power requirements.


----------



## FiJAAS

malfunkt said:


> It was able to drive my LCD2 and HD650. Should be even a better match with the EL-8 given its low power requirements.




Thanks.


----------



## qsk78

Hi.
 Does anybody use the C5D with ortofon e-q8? Is there any noise on the background?
 I do experience it with my Oppo Ha-2.
 How does the C5D performs in comparison with the O2+ODAC, will it be a real downgrade?
 Will it be a downgrade in comparison with oppo ha-2?
  
 I like the products of the JDS Labs.  I had the C5 in the past which I really liked.
 The only thing I have skipped in the C5D.
  
 Thank you in advance.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

qsk78 said:


> Hi.
> Does anybody use the C5D with ortofon e-q8? Is there any noise on the background?
> I do experience it with my Oppo Ha-2.
> How does the C5D performs in comparison with the O2+ODAC, will it be a real downgrade?
> ...


 
 The HA-2 is rather too powerful for the EQ8. I had never tried the EQ8 with the C5D, but I can say that the C5D has perfect synergy with 32 ohm Grado in-ears. And the C5D is NOT a downgrade with the O2+ODAC, it's more a matter of preference, really. In fact I'd say that the C5D is a bit more 'musical' than the O2+ODAC, even though the O2+ODAC still feels very natural to me (when paired with my Grados).


----------



## askelad

hi
 please remember my english is not good
 my setup now fiio x5+O2 diy+jds c5d+aless ms2i
  
 I have compared the two (o2 diy and jds c5d) and here is the result:
 - mid c5d more forward than the o2
 - bass punch more pronounced in c5d
 - jds c5d speed is slower than o2 for metal music that require double pedal
 are you feel the same?
  
 after reading this thread, some people dont like pairing c5d with grado, why? 
  
 thanks for reading and sorry for my bad english XD


----------



## bzippy

fabifri said:


> I have the C5D now for quite a while, and i am still very happy with it. Today i discovered the "ultimate combination" - The C5D in combination with the HD600 and the BassBoost in the "Low"-Position. That's a match - made in heaven.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Now that looks familiar! I just got a C5 about a 1-1/2 weeks ago to go with my HD600's. I really love it. I have been using a FiiO E12 v1 (the subtle sub-bass boost version) for about 6 months and only recently learned of the C5. So I decided to give it a try and see if might beat out the E12 for me. It did, and now the E12 is in the classifieds. The C5 is just kinda overall better to my ear: cleaner, better low end, more natural highs and about the same mids. Though contrary to what everyone says, I hear more space with the E12, which might be because the highs are a bit more prominent. But they are also more harsh and fatiguing so I am accepting that trade-off. (i wrote a brief comparison review in another thread in case anyone is interested)
  
 Unlike you though, I mostly find the C5's low bass boost too much with the HD600's. It just makes things a bit too fat for me, especially vocals. Unboosted mode is nice & flat and for most recordings has plenty of low end punch in a quiet listening environment. I'd say it has about the same low end impact unboosted as the E12 v1 does with the bass boost on (which I always kept on) -- close enough for me at least. Some recordings do still need the boost though, and for those my E12's boost simply wasn't enough, which is partly why I decided to give the C5 a try. so glad I did.
  
 Anyway it's a great sounding amp, and looks really slick too! And no complaints here about the battery life, but I haven't really pushed that yet as I am pretty quick to top off the charge once I suspect it gets down to about 50% or so.
  
 My source is the FiiO X3 line out with lossless files, btw.


----------



## ThomasHK

Does anyone know what DAC is being used in this product? I've tried searching but to no avail... Thanks in advance.


----------



## MistahBungle

thomashk said:


> Does anyone know what DAC is being used in this product? I've tried searching but to no avail... Thanks in advance.




C5D uses PCM5102A (according to their blog).


----------



## ThomasHK

Many thanks! Doubting between this one and Geek Out V2.


----------



## White Lotus

Wow, the C5 really drives the LCD 2.2 well.


----------



## bzippy

recent noteworthy discovery: the frequency balance and bass boost is affected by the gain setting (actually i read about it somewhere here i think).
  
 this may be obvious to most, but it wasn't to me. i use HD600's and just assumed i needed the high gain mode, so i never gave low gain mode a critical listen. but trying it now i'm hearing a rather noticeably more subtle bass boost (with no mid intrusion) and i also think i'm perceiving a hair more sparkle on top, both of which are improvements imo. and the unboosted low end does not seem to be any different (also good). with my HD600's i only need about 30 volume steps in low gain mode and about 21 steps in high gain mode, so i think i have some good headroom left. makes me wonder whether super sensitive iem users have any problems.
  
 anyway, i loved this amp before, but now i'm thrilled!


----------



## baydude

Can someone please let me know if this will work w/ the iphone 6 + C5D?
  
 http://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Micro-Lightning-Adapter-Certified/dp/B00M4QANB4/ref=pd_sim_422_5?ie=UTF8&refRID=1WBWSN7P1MM2CSMX6K8Q
  

  
  
 Or this??
 Lightning male to micro USB male
 http://usbfever.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2360


----------



## dbdynsty25

baydude said:


> Can someone please let me know if this will work w/ the iphone 6 + C5D?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Micro-Lightning-Adapter-Certified/dp/B00M4QANB4/ref=pd_sim_422_5?ie=UTF8&refRID=1WBWSN7P1MM2CSMX6K8Q
> 
> ...


 
  
 None of those will work w/ the C5D...they will work with an amp like the HA-2, but not the C5D as it isn't apple certified.  This is what you need:
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Lightning-Camera-Adapter-MD821ZM/dp/B009WHV3XA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1439521985&sr=8-2&keywords=apple+camera+connection+kit
  
 Camera connection kit, and then you use the usb cable that came with the C5D to connect.


----------



## baydude

dbdynsty25 said:


> None of those will work w/ the C5D...they will work with an amp like the HA-2, but not the C5D as it isn't apple certified.  This is what you need:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Lightning-Camera-Adapter-MD821ZM/dp/B009WHV3XA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1439521985&sr=8-2&keywords=apple+camera+connection+kit
> 
> Camera connection kit, and then you use the usb cable that came with the C5D to connect.


 
 Even if that AmazonBasic adapter is Apple Certified?


----------



## dbdynsty25

baydude said:


> Even if that AmazonBasic adapter is Apple Certified?


 
  
 The device has to be apple certified as well as the cable.  So it will not work since the C5D isn't.


----------



## baydude

dbdynsty25 said:


> The device has to be apple certified as well as the cable.  So it will not work since the C5D isn't.


 
 Interesting. So why would the Apple Lightning Camera Adapter work if the C5D isn't certified?


----------



## dbdynsty25

baydude said:


> Interesting. So why would the Apple Lightning Camera Adapter work if the C5D isn't certified?


 
  
 Because all that does is make the lightning adapter into a regular USB out, which the C5D works fine with.  Most amps work with the Camera Connection Kit (things like the Fiio e17, etc.)...the special ones work with the lightning cables.  Oppo HA-2, V-MODA Vamp Verza and a couple more I haven't used before.


----------



## zozoxkarii

Having been a fairly big fan of fiio's budget e17 I was very sceptical of switching over to JDS Labs' C5D (roughly $150 more than the e17), but after roughly one month of using the product with my hifiman he-400s and mr. speaker's mad dog I can't express how great this product is! Although the e17 is still a great amp/dac,I find that the "bass and mid" performance as well as the sheer driving power of the c5d far exceeds that of the e17. If you are a bass head like me, and still on a moderate budget, I can almost assure you that you will fall in love with this amp/dac!


----------



## Happytalk

I am not a basshead but i agree. I also had the e17. JDS labs has the clear advantage. Especially with honest and accurate bass.


----------



## MusicFiMan

C5 is so good with my W3s.


----------



## SpArkLeS

Wanted to get this some time back haven't pulled the trigger yet. 
  
 I use an ipod classic with Fiio e11 + V-moda M100 at the moment.
 Music I listen to is all sorts of edm (mainly monstercat at the moment)
  
 Should I get this or the e12 or something else?


----------



## Yobster69

sparkles said:


> Wanted to get this some time back haven't pulled the trigger yet.
> 
> I use an ipod classic with Fiio e11 + V-moda M100 at the moment.
> Music I listen to is all sorts of edm (mainly monstercat at the moment)
> ...


All I can say is after having this little amp/dac for 6 months now, it craps all over the E12, no competition, and you cannot get much more bang for your buck.
It appears you may like your Bass, what with the M100's and liking for EDM, so plump for the C5D, the 2 position bass boost will blow your little socks off  
IMO, YMMV and all that, but I think 99% would agree the little Fiio trails well behind. 
I hope this helps


----------



## gopanthersgo1

I am thinking of upgrading my Fiio e7, and am debating getting the c5d or the c5 + odac, which sounds better? Will the stack fit in my pocket? A main concern is I want to be able to use two different amps at the same time for dual listening, and the ODAC with RCA would be perfect for that. How's the sound difference between ODAC+C5 and the C5D? As long as it's pocketable the ODAC+C5 seems like a better deal for. Could the ODAC be driven by my Nexus 6 via OTG?


----------



## Raketen

Going by specs, standalone ODAC enclosure is almost the same size as C5 and C5D... if you can imagine fitting two decks of cards or two third gen iPods in your pocket, plus the phone, and requisite cables- maybe with a fanny pack or cargo pockets, or rigging cables around your clothes so you can use multiple pockets 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 As to powering ODAC with a mobile, seems possible, JDS has a blog entry on the limitations and workarounds, actually: http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=838


----------



## gopanthersgo1

raketen said:


> Going by specs, standalone ODAC enclosure is almost the same size as C5 and C5D... if you can imagine fitting two decks of cards or two third gen iPods in your pocket, plus the phone, and requisite cables- maybe with a fanny pack or cargo pockets, or rigging cables around your clothes so you can use multiple pockets
> 
> As to powering ODAC with a mobile, seems possible, JDS has a blog entry on the limitations and workarounds, actually: http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=838


okay, I just need to transport in my pocket, listening is done with my gear either in my seat or on my desk, I just need to be able to get away with carrying it to wherever I'm going.


----------



## Gino

I am not sure what you meant by dual amp listening. It is not possible to use both the ODAC RCA's headphone jack and RCA plugs at the same time. 

 I am using the ODAC RCA  on my HTC One M8 and SMSL SAP-5 amp. Amazing battery life. Barely budges.

 I am also on the fence whether to pair my ODAC with a C5 or just use one C5D. However, a review at Headfonia said the C5 was more revealing than the amp section of the C5D. 

 I will buy a short mini to micro otg cable for dedicated music use and a 2-3ft cable for phone use.


----------



## mikey1964

Just joined the JDS Labs C5 club....


 My complete portable audio gear, not exactly top end (far from it), but good enough for me!


----------



## Mmet

mikey1964 said:


> Just joined the JDS Labs C5 club....
> 
> 
> My complete portable audio gear, not exactly top end (far from it), but good enough for me!


 
 Congratulations ... looks very nice ... i doubt that a double priced set up would sound better that yours


----------



## JamesBr

musicfiman said:


> C5 is so good with my W3s.


 
 Heheh showing off


----------



## francisco Z

Hi I own the sennheiser HD 700 and adore the soundstage I get from it with my Fiio x5 but I want an amp, will the jds labs open up the soundstage or compress it? It may seem silly but it makes a big difference to me. Thanks


----------



## bzippy

francisco z said:


> Hi I own the sennheiser HD 700 and adore the soundstage I get from it with my Fiio x5 but I want an amp, will the jds labs open up the soundstage or compress it? It may seem silly but it makes a big difference to me. Thanks


 

 can't comment on the improvement over the X5, but the C5 definitely has more space & separation compared to my X3's headphone jack when using my HD600's. (i'm talking X3 line out into the C5, of course)


----------



## francisco Z

That's still helpful, thanks.


----------



## thelastwaltz

My C5D arrived today and initial impressions with my Sony Xperia Z3 and Etymotic ER4S are moderately positive. Used as an amp (the DAC in the Z3 is far better in my opinion) it's engaging and well defined but lacking in power with the 100ohm ER4S. Even with my Z3 on full (yes I know it's AVLS-handicapped) and the C5D set to high gain and full volume the power is not enough. I want an amp to get uncomfortable at full volume but my ER4S IEMs don't really get to stretch their legs even at full output on both source and amp. I just keep thinking 'Give me more'. The bass boost at the 'mid' setting is nice - at full it's horrible and the bass just turns to sludge. I cannot discern a benefit used purely as an amp over my PA2V2 which is considerably cheaper.
  
 In truth, I'm regretting my purchase and definitely regretting getting it personalised as it's harder to offload. I think it will do as a bridge between my laptop and my integrated amp/speaker setup but not what I was hoping for in terms of an improvement to my existing portable setup.


----------



## bzippy

thelastwaltz said:


> My C5D arrived today and initial impressions with my Sony Xperia Z3 and Etymotic ER4S are moderately positive. Used as an amp (the DAC in the Z3 is far better in my opinion) it's engaging and well defined but lacking in power with the 100ohm ER4S. Even with my Z3 on full (yes I know it's AVLS-handicapped) and the C5D set to high gain and full volume the power is not enough. I want an amp to get uncomfortable at full volume but my ER4S IEMs don't really get to stretch their legs even at full output on both source and amp. I just keep thinking 'Give me more'. The bass boost at the 'mid' setting is nice - at full it's horrible and the bass just turns to sludge. I cannot discern a benefit used purely as an amp over my PA2V2 which is considerably cheaper.
> 
> In truth, I'm regretting my purchase and definitely regretting getting it personalised as it's harder to offload. I think it will do as a bridge between my laptop and my integrated amp/speaker setup but not what I was hoping for in terms of an improvement to my existing portable setup.


 

 boy, so much about this seems fishy to me.
  
 first off, i want to make sure you're getting a line out (post DAC, unamped) signal out of that phone -- are you? because i don't know of any phones that do this (i'm not a phone expert though). and can you also get a digital signal out of the phone (pre DAC)? if you're not able to do both of these things then you're not comparing DACs. it's not likely that a phone DAC is as technically good as the C5D DAC, though i have no problem believing a person might prefer something that is technically less "good". but again, i don't think you're isolating DACs so it's kinda mute anyway.
  
 and as for the volume, something is definitely not right. no way anyone's ears can take the C5 at high gain & full volume with a set of IEM's. can't you turn off the phone's volume limiter? if not then NO portable amp will help you get loud enough.
  
 i'm sorry but i think you really haven't heard the C5D yet.


----------



## Happytalk

Definitely something wrong in the chain.


----------



## BL33DnEaRs

Just curious.  Just how powerful is the C5?  I have one, powering low ohm IEMs at the moment.  But what about something like DT770 250ohms?  Or 600 ohms?  What is the C5's limit when accounting for powering power hungry cans?


----------



## bzippy

bl33dnears said:


> Just curious.  Just how powerful is the C5?  I have one, powering low ohm IEMs at the moment.  But what about something like DT770 250ohms?  Or 600 ohms?  What is the C5's limit when accounting for powering power hungry cans?


 

 It effortlessly drives my 300ohm HD600: about 25% volume on high gain and just under 50% volume on low gain. I admit i don't listen very loudly, but it wouldn't take many more volume steps to get really damn loud. worth mentioning that the input is almost exclusively my X3 line out, which is a pretty hot signal.


----------



## Happytalk

Love it with the Hd600's. Even with lps line (tape) out from my integrated to the C5 then to the HD600's is really nice.


----------



## RojasTKD

Dose anyone use the C5D with a Note 4 over USB OTG?
  
 I just got a C5D and JDS Labs OTG cable and tried it with my Note 4. The Audio is horribly distorted. You know how in movies the  bad guys uses a device to distort his voice? That's what it sounds like, with a bit of slow motion going on. With the HibyMusic App I can play my music, but other music app and streaming apps (Spotify & Pandora) are distorted and horrid. Same results with the Galaxy Tab 2 8.4 (actually it sounds worse!).
  
 Just tried it with my Note 3 and it works fine. What's the deal with the Note 4? I'm assuming it has something to do with Samsung's implementation. Work around/fix?


----------



## Gino

I suspect the Note 4 and its current os simply cannot support usb audio. Research your rom if it really support usb audio natively.

 Hibymusic uses its own drivers that is why it works.
  
 it's not a total deal breaker, you just need a rom that is known to provide usb audio natively. Cynanogenmod has been known to support it.
 Still it is phone specific. So do your research so you avoid barking at the wrong tree.

 In my research Note 3 is known to support usb audio natively. In fact, the Note 3 was on my shortlist. I ended up buying an HTC M8. USB audio works 
 natively.


----------



## RojasTKD

gino said:


> I suspect the Note 4 and its current os simply cannot support usb audio. Research your rom if it really support usb audio natively.
> 
> Hibymusic uses its own drivers that is why it works.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the reply...
  
 I'm currently running stock (AT&T) and have seen a few mentions of others using a DAC with their Note 4, perhaps they are running custom ROMs. Have done a couple of searches but haven't really found much in the way of useful results.
  
 When I got my Note 4, there wasn't a good way to root, so I never did and haven't kept up. Perhaps I'll look into it and see what can be done now.
  
 Anyone using a Note 4? Custom? Stock?


----------



## dbdynsty25

rojastkd said:


> Dose anyone use the C5D with a Note 4 over USB OTG?
> 
> I just got a C5D and JDS Labs OTG cable and tried it with my Note 4. The Audio is horribly distorted. You know how in movies the  bad guys uses a device to distort his voice? That's what it sounds like, with a bit of slow motion going on. With the HibyMusic App I can play my music, but other music app and streaming apps (Spotify & Pandora) are distorted and horrid. Same results with the Galaxy Tab 2 8.4 (actually it sounds worse!).
> 
> Just tried it with my Note 3 and it works fine. What's the deal with the Note 4? I'm assuming it has something to do with Samsung's implementation. Work around/fix?




No new Samsung devices work properly w audio OTG. I've tested the Note 5, Tab S 8.4, Tab S2 8.0, and two different galaxy S6 models and all exhibited that distortion out of both my HA2 and my C5D. It's a Samsung software issue clearly as every other device I've tried works fine.


----------



## RojasTKD

dbdynsty25 said:


> No new Samsung devices work properly w audio OTG. I've tested the Note 5, Tab S 8.4, Tab S2 8.0, and two different galaxy S6 models and all exhibited that distortion out of both my HA2 and my C5D. It's a Samsung software issue clearly as every other device I've tried works fine.


 
  
 That's a shame. All my Android devices have been Samsung going back to the original Samsung Galaxy. Now they are dropping removable batteries and external MicroSD card support as well as breaking USB audio out. When it comes time for a new phone I may be looking at something other than a Samsung.
  
 May have to look into rooting my Note 4 and try a custom ROM, or just use my Note 3 for audio (but them I have to carry an additional device).
  
 BTW My Samsung Galaxy Tab s 8.4 doesn't work either, but my Nexus 7 2013 does.


----------



## Gino

A few weeks ago I was on an Android phone hunt. I wanted one that would work with my ODAC. I was thinking as a precursor to using a C5D or a C5. I've read issues with newer Samsung phones. So I narrowed my choice to older phones known to work usb audio natively. 

 The Note 3 was the latest most practical Samsung I found for the purpose. I have a Note 1 (but doesn't give usb audio) with CM and like the removable battery feature a lot.

 In the end though I chose a the HTC M8. Research showed  It fit my criteria. I am very happy with it. USB audio works with the ODAC natively. So all apps I cared to use worked with sound through the ODAC. Battery lasts a very long time with the ODAC hooked up. Perfect for the C5/C5D intention. The ODAC also give me the opportunity to use different powered amps without draining much power from the phone.


----------



## RojasTKD

Post this reply yesterday, just noticed I accidently started a new thread.
  
 Well, did some reading and say someone mention to make sure that "Disable USB audio routing" wasn't checked in developer options (note developer mode has to be enabled by tapping 7 times on the build number Under settings>general.about device.build number).
  
 I did as described and the options was unchecked was unchecked. I plugged in the C5D and it was now working fine. Checking and unchecking the option didn't seem to make a difference. Rebooted and it was broken again. Open developer mode it started working fine again. I get varying results. Seem to be some combination of opening Developer options then turning on the C5D using the Google Music app FIRST, then other app (Spotify) will work. It very strange.
  
 It seems if you reboot or turn off/disconnect the C5D you have to start from the beginning (open developer mode, turn on C5D, start a song with Google Music). It's very strange!
  
 BTW you can also start playing Google PLay Music first them turn on the DAC, seems to work either way.
  
 So I guess I found a workaround. Does it work for anyone else?


----------



## myemaildw

heres a question c5d or cozoy aegis dac? which is better


----------



## Gino

Cut my ODAC to stack neatly with my SMSL-SAP-5.  I love this little wonder.


----------



## JamesLange

Is the c5D worth $90 more than e18 fiio (sale on mass drop)


----------



## joey99

jameslange said:


> Is the c5D worth $90 more than e18 fiio (sale on mass drop)


 
 I've had many fiio products when I first started just because they were cheap. however they always seem to be too warm and fuzzy. 
 The C5D is clean and I thought just the amazing bass boost was worth the price.


----------



## myemaildw

c5d or oppo ha2?


----------



## NewestNewbie

Hello All, 
  
 I am just getting back into hi-fi music again after a long 2 decade hiatus, and know very little about the modern day stuff now.  Would really appreciate some advice on putting together my portable setup.
  
 I have a new pair of B&O H6's and an old iPad2 (with most of the music simply purchased off of iTunes or ripped off of CD's).
  
 These new headphones are okay for me, but a bit too bright for my liking.  They also have insufficient bass response for my tastes, and I need to turn the volume level way up to get decent output -- which seems to be causing some distortion.
  
 So my question is, would the C5 be a good match for my setup?  I prefer a warm sound, so perhaps an amp that can take away some excess brightness is what I need?  I have also looked at the FiiO E12A, but really am not sure which direction to go in.
  
 And one other consideration, is whether playing not-so-high quality music files through my not-so-great iPad dac is going to be magnified with any amp and result in subpar sound anyways?
  
 Thanks for any input!


----------



## Smurfs2010

newestnewbie said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I am just getting back into hi-fi music again after a long 2 decade hiatus, and know very little about the modern day stuff now.  Would really appreciate some advice on putting together my portable setup.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi, I don't know much about your headphones and the iPad but I can tell you that the C5D delivers a nice warm sound.  And the bass boost is absolutely amazing.  The C5D's background is drop dead silent even on my sensitive IEMs.  I would recommend the C5D over the C5 for you but I am not sure what kind of line out the iPad has.  You may just want to sport for a DAP (Fiio X3?).  For $160, the X3 may offer a better portable solution.  Also it will play FLAC files.


----------



## Koolpep

newestnewbie said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I am just getting back into hi-fi music again after a long 2 decade hiatus, and know very little about the modern day stuff now.  Would really appreciate some advice on putting together my portable setup.
> 
> ...


 

 Not an expert on the iPad 2 but as long as you get a digital output from it via an adapter you can connect it to the C5D: 
  
 This is with an iPhone 6, Camera Connection Kit and USB micro cable. Works beautifully.
  


 So in your case you should be fine with purchasing this:
 http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MC531AM/A/apple-ipad-camera-connection-kit?fnode=91&fs=f%3Dipad2%26fh%3D4588%252B357c
  
 then use the provided micro usb to USB cable and that's it. 
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## NewestNewbie

Hey, thanks for all this info.  
  
 I just checked and the iPad I'm using unfortunately has no 'digital line out', only the standard analog headphones jack.  And I'm glad you told me the C5/C5D amp is on the warm side, just what I'm looking for.  As far as using the X3, I would prefer to just stick with the iPad as it's already set up with the music files and I only need to use it sitting in long flights anyways.


----------



## NewestNewbie

Koolpep, 
  
 Thanks a lot for your post.  I want to ask if I get the C5D, do I then need to change the format of my music files on iTunes?  Right now they are typically 5MB AAC files.
  
 And so I just use this Apple connector (both cables in your pic come in the set?) and everything will automatically set up between the iPad and C5D?
  
 And lastly, I see 2 different Apple connector models on Amazon:  
  
 the MC531AM/A
 http://www.amazon.com/Apple-iPad-Camera-Connection-MC531AM/dp/B0149QE3RQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1448990640&sr=8-1&keywords=Apple+iPad+Camera+Connection+Kit
  
 and the MC531ZM/A
 http://www.amazon.com/Apple-iPad-Camera-Connection-Kit/dp/B003RV3N1C/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1448990640&sr=8-2&keywords=Apple+iPad+Camera+Connection+Kit
  
 Are you aware of any difference between these two?
  
 Thanks again!


----------



## zombywoof

newestnewbie said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I am just getting back into hi-fi music again after a long 2 decade hiatus, and know very little about the modern day stuff now.  Would really appreciate some advice on putting together my portable setup.
> 
> ...


 

 I have the H6 and the JDS C5.  I find the C5 to a detailed, neutral amp (sans bass boost), so it is well matched to the relatively neutral (again, to my ears) H6.  I can confirm that the C5 is dead silent, and that the bass boost function works really well, as commented by others.  I have had several Fiio amps (but not the E12), and the C5 is in my opinion superior.  I use my C5 with a Fiio L9 line out dock cable, and my iPod Classic 7G to bypass the amp on the iPod.


----------



## Yobster69

newestnewbie said:


> Hey, thanks for all this info.
> 
> I just checked and the iPad I'm using unfortunately has no 'digital line out', only the standard analog headphones jack.  And I'm glad you told me the C5/C5D amp is on the warm side, just what I'm looking for.  As far as using the X3, I would prefer to just stick with the iPad as it's already set up with the music files and I only need to use it sitting in long flights anyways.


Hi, your iPad must have a digital out, it's the port that you charge it and upload all your music to it through. The linked camera connection kit is exactly what you need to bypass the DAC on your pad and have the C5D (not the C5, that's an amp only) take care of coverting and amping your music. And the C5D has a two step bass boost, it's fantastic and will give you all the low end grunt you need. You cannot get a better solution for your money. All my impressions of course


----------



## Smurfs2010

newestnewbie said:


> Hey, thanks for all this info.
> 
> I just checked and the iPad I'm using unfortunately has no 'digital line out', only the standard analog headphones jack.  And I'm glad you told me the C5/C5D amp is on the warm side, just what I'm looking for.  As far as using the X3, I would prefer to just stick with the iPad as it's already set up with the music files and I only need to use it sitting in long flights anyways.


 
  
 I also took up the hobby last year after probably 2 decades as well.  Be warned that once you jump in, your wallet may never be so green.  JDS C5D was my first Amp/DAC and now I have 3 and not to mention the countless IEMs.  It's an endless game so be careful.  Good luck!


----------



## NewestNewbie

Hey thank you all again for helping me to empty my wallet, errr, I mean for helping me to fill up my ears with great sound )
  
 I had posted a reply earlier, but it contained links to the Apple Connector on Amazon, and I guess I am not allowed to post links here yet.
  
 So I will type again now...
  
 Basically I want to ask if my iTunes music files, which are typically 5MB AAC format, will be sufficient quality to play on the C5D unit?
  
 And regarding the connection setup, does the Apple set come with both those cables in Koolpep's photo?   Also on Amazon there are two different models for this connector available (MC531ZM/A and MC531AM/A) and I want to ask if there's any difference between the them?

 zombywoof, I'm so glad you've told me that this amp matches well with the H6 -- I can't wait to buy one of these now!   If I end up choosing the C5 without DAC, then does the FiiO L9 cable simply provide a cleaner signal than just using the "headphones out" jack on the iPod/iPad?


----------



## NewestNewbie

My apologies,  my earlier post #3231 must have just gotten approved and is showing up now.   My first day here and like a true newbie I'm already double posting


----------



## Yobster69

newestnewbie said:


> Hey thank you all again for helping me to empty my wallet, errr, I mean for helping me to fill up my ears with great sound )
> 
> I had posted a reply earlier, but it contained links to the Apple Connector on Amazon, and I guess I am not allowed to post links here yet.
> 
> ...


I'm sure zombywoof will also reply, but if I can answer you as well. 
Yes, the C5 and C5D will play the files you have on your iPad, you have no worries there. 
If you purchase the L9 cable you can plug this into either the C5 or C5D line in, this will bypass the amp on the pad but use the pads internal DAC. If you purchase the C5 you are limiting yourself to this option.
The C5D will allow you, with the camera connection kit, to bypass the DAC in the pad and use its onboard DAC for conversion. You then have 2 options of DAC with one little box. I have never heard the DAC on the iPad 2, but I would guess that it is not as good as the newer and more focused chip used in the C5D. 
I use an iPhone 4 with an LOD similar to the L9 for when I'm mobile, and then the camera connection kit with my iPhone(s) with lightning connection (the camera kit looks different for lighting products as you can see below, but does the same job).


----------



## zombywoof

newestnewbie said:


> zombywoof, I'm so glad you've told me that this amp matches well with the H6 -- I can't wait to buy one of these now!   If I end up choosing the C5 without DAC, then does the FiiO L9 cable simply provide a cleaner signal than just using the "headphones out" jack on the iPod/iPad?


 
  
 Yobster69's comments are spot on, and my understanding of the way these things work is probably not as solid as his.  The way it was described to me (or, more precisely, the way I understood it)...I use my H6 > C5 combo with an iPod Classic 7G 160 Gb exclusively...so, no digital output through the dock connector (the old 30 pin style, not the newer lightning connector).  The iPod provides an un-amped analog signal from the dock connector via the L9 cable, thus bypassing the amp in the iPod, and allowing me to take full advantage of the amplifier circuitry in the C5.  It is also possible to use the headphone out from the iPod and connect this way to the C5.  If the amp in the iPod is the weak link in the chain, then the C5 is little more than added weight.  I did not choose the C5D for the simple reason that I have no use for the DAC function with my current iPod.  When I bought my C5, I e-mailed JDS labs with the model iPod I was using and they indicated that the C5 was the right choice.  The folks at JDS are first rate.  If you want to find out precisely what you need to make the most of your iPad, contact them and give them the model info.  I am sure they will help you out.


----------



## NewestNewbie

Many thanks Yobster69 and zombywoof!  Per your post, I messaged JDS and was advised to go with the C5D.  
  
 From time to time I'll still want to use my old iPod Nano 4th gen, will I be able to do so with the C5D using the FiiO L9 cable?   If the signal reaching the C5D is already analog then it just bypasses the built-in DAC, right?


----------



## Mmet

newestnewbie said:


> Many thanks Yobster69 and zombywoof!  Per your post, I messaged JDS and was advised to go with the C5D.
> 
> From time to time I'll still want to use my old iPod Nano 4th gen, will I be able to do so with the C5D using the FiiO L9 cable?   If the signal reaching the C5D is already analog then it just bypasses the built-in DAC, right?


 
 yes right ... you can use the C5D with Analog input ( just using it as amp ) or digital out ( using both DAC>> amp sections of the C5D )


----------



## NewestNewbie

Thanks Mmet.  One last question regarding the cable for my old iPod.. can I use the Apple iPad Camera Connection kit with it (since it has the same 30pin connector) or will this setup only work with the FiiO L9?  Apologies in advance for my limited knowledge on even the simplest of issues here


----------



## Mmet

newestnewbie said:


> Thanks Mmet.  One last question regarding the cable for my old iPod.. can I use the Apple iPad Camera Connection kit with it (since it has the same 30pin connector) or will this setup only work with the FiiO L9?  Apologies in advance for my limited knowledge on even the simplest of issues here



You are welcome... It will only work with fiio l9 ... For getting the digital signal from your nano will require other dac- amp compo that supports digital out from iPod


----------



## NewestNewbie

Sorry Mmet my last post wasn't clear enough...
  
 Actually I want to use the Apple iPad Camera Connection Kit to get analog out of the iPod Nano and then use only the amp part of the C5D -- would this be possible? [perhaps this is a really dumb question, I don't know! )]


----------



## Mmet

newestnewbie said:


> Sorry Mmet my last post wasn't clear enough...
> 
> Actually I want to use the Apple iPad Camera Connection Kit to get analog out of the iPod Nano and then use only the amp part of the C5D -- would this be possible? [perhaps this is a really dumb question, I don't know! )]


 
 the camera connection kit is for digital only .. i think it doesn't support to get you the analog signal ... Fiio L9 is for that .... if you want to go analog the L9 and headphone out is your way to go 
  
 but may i ask you a question ... why you want to use the camera connection kit while you have the L9 ? ... even from the outside appearance the L9 is much more convenient


----------



## NewestNewbie

Thanks again Mmet, all clear now!
  
 I don't have the L9 yet, and didn't feel like carrying extra cables in any case.
  
 I'll have to special order a faux version of the L9 from where I live:
  
  
 HEADSOUND Cable - Stereo Jack to Apple 30 PIN
 "The cable takes the analogue line-out signal provided by Apple's classic 30-pin adapter for earlier-generation Iphones, Ipads and Ipods and provides it to amplifiers via a 3.5 mm plug."
  

 Let's hope it works!


----------



## NewestNewbie

Many thanks to Smurfs2010, Koolpep, zombywoof, Yobster69, and Mmet for helping me out in this thread.

 I received my C5D today, and the sound is just amazing.  Clean, detailed, crisp.  The vocals and mids shine especially.  Lows are deep and pronounced.  And the DAC makes a huge difference, compared to just using it with the FiiO L9.
  
 I have it running right now from my iPad2 to Bose Soundlink Mini.  Life is good!


----------



## Mmet

newestnewbie said:


> Many thanks to Smurfs2010, Koolpep, zombywoof, Yobster69, and Mmet for helping me out in this thread.
> 
> 
> I received my C5D today, and the sound is just amazing.  Clean, detailed, crisp.  The vocals and mids shine especially.  Lows are deep and pronounced.  And the DAC makes a huge difference, compared to just using it with the FiiO L9.
> ...



Happy for you ... Congratulations


----------



## Smurfs2010

newestnewbie said:


> Many thanks to Smurfs2010, Koolpep, zombywoof, Yobster69, and Mmet for helping me out in this thread.
> 
> I received my C5D today, and the sound is just amazing.  Clean, detailed, crisp.  The vocals and mids shine especially.  Lows are deep and pronounced.  And the DAC makes a huge difference, compared to just using it with the FiiO L9.
> 
> I have it running right now from my iPad2 to Bose Soundlink Mini.  Life is good!


----------



## Yobster69

newestnewbie said:


> Many thanks to Smurfs2010, Koolpep, zombywoof, Yobster69, and Mmet for helping me out in this thread.
> 
> 
> I received my C5D today, and the sound is just amazing.  Clean, detailed, crisp.  The vocals and mids shine especially.  Lows are deep and pronounced.  And the DAC makes a huge difference, compared to just using it with the FiiO L9.
> ...


I'm glad you are enjoying it, it's an easy product to recommend, great sound for your pound. I rock the C5D every day to and from work (listening right now with my Earsonics Velvets) and have no desire to upgrade just yet...... Well that's a bit of a lie really, but let's get Chritmas out of the way 
Merry holidays to all, be lucky


----------



## NewestNewbie

yobster69 said:


> I'm glad you are enjoying it, it's an easy product to recommend, great sound for your pound. I rock the C5D every day to and from work (listening right now with my Earsonics Velvets) and have no desire to upgrade just yet...... Well that's a bit of a lie really, but let's get Chritmas out of the way
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Glad to hear that you use the C5D everyday -- at the rate I'm going not being able to turn this thing off, was starting to worry if I'll burn it out from daily use


----------



## trivium911

Hey guys ive heard alot about the c5d. I currently own the sennheiser 598se's a couple pairs of iems and the takstar pro 80s. I typically use my fiio x1 straight for the iems since i usually use them at the gym and the over the ear headphones i stack them with my fiio q1. Would it be an unwise purchase the jds labs cd5? I like the q1 amp and dac i have but ive been looking at the sennheiset hd650/600s and i would need a better amp to drive these from what what ive read. The main issue is if the c5d is worth around $300 canadian and perhaps something cheaper would be just as good. Ive thought about getting a desktop dac or amp for my computer but than if i ever wanted to use high impedence headphones in bed or the occasional time at work when im working late i would not have that option. Just seems pointless to buy hd600s and spend all that money to pretty much just use at my computer. Another question thats off topic...how do you guys comvince your wives or girlfirends that spending $1000 on headphones is ok without her thinking one is clinically insane? Lol descisions....decisions...


----------



## Happytalk

I'd look for a second hand one. They hold up well, and they do drive the hd600's well, but I tend to plug my hd600's into another source more often. I'd try it with the headphones and iems you have already. It will probably be sufficient. No need to spend all that money.


----------



## trivium911

happytalk said:


> I'd look for a second hand one. They hold up well, and they do drive the hd600's well, but I tend to plug my hd600's into another source more often. I'd try it with the headphones and iems you have already. It will probably be sufficient. No need to spend all that money.




So what is your opinion on the fiio q1 amp/dac compared to the c5d? Will it be a night and day difference? I dont have anything to compare from the q1....which i think sounds great. How is the community here to look for used equipment? Sorry about the grammer im usng my.phone.


----------



## dbdynsty25

trivium911 said:


> So what is your opinion on the fiio q1 amp/dac compared to the c5d? Will it be a night and day difference? I dont have anything to compare from the q1....which i think sounds great. How is the community here to look for used equipment? Sorry about the grammer im usng my.phone.


 
  
 The Q1 is a great entry level amp...loved mine, but the C5D is better.  Specifically it has more power (thus goes louder) and has that awesome linear bass boost if you want it.


----------



## trivium911

dbdynsty25 said:


> The Q1 is a great entry level amp...loved mine, but the C5D is better.  Specifically it has more power (thus goes louder) and has that awesome linear bass boost if you want it.




So for right now with my 598s im happy with the bass on the q1...with the bass boost its perfect for certain songs and more than loud enough...as far as sound quality though would there be a noticeable difference?

Im torn between this amp and the fiio e12/ e12a. I would like the dac function on the c5d but it costs alot more. Ive heard alot of good things about the e12 except for the e12 hissing...which i heard was fixed in the dyi version (which isna moot point since i cant find that anywhere). The e12a gets rid of the hissing but cuts the power in half and also costs more....and yet still does not have any dac function to use with my home computer. Is it true the c5d is less powerful than the e12? And if so by how much?


----------



## Happytalk

I can't compare to the q1 but I liked it better than the fiio Amps.


----------



## hifistarter

+1 C5D is awesome, and having had a E11K, and heard the Q1 from a friend, C5D is still my favorite by far.  Fiio right now does not compare.


----------



## trivium911

hifistarter said:


> +1 C5D is awesome, and having had a E11K, and heard the Q1 from a friend, C5D is still my favorite by far.  Fiio right now does not compare.


 
 Thanks for the Info...i guess this will be my next amp to purchase since the E12 does not have a dac anyways.


----------



## Happytalk

Will take jds labs over Fiio any day. Fiio is an excellent company, but I prefer the sound signature of my C5 to the fiio e17 I owned and the fiio x5 I have tested.


----------



## trivium911

happytalk said:


> Will take jds labs over Fiio any day. Fiio is an excellent company, but I prefer the sound signature of my C5 to the fiio e17 I owned and the fiio x5 I have tested.


 
 Hmm What about the objective 2? Its cool that you can upgrade it along the way, and its alot smaller than i first thought. For where i would take it to my room to listen in bed or to my office. Perhaps if ambitious....to take on a flight with my x1? Its cheaper and one could upgrade to the odac along the way? 
  
 Ohh what about the Cayin CDAC looks like it has tons of power and is only $200 US


----------



## Happytalk

I had an odac and objective 2. I liked the combo. I wouldn't bring the O2 in a plane. That just sounds like a pain in the ass. I have and would happily stack a C5 or C5D to a DAP on a plane. These days my dx90 and er4s does the job nicely. Over time I realized that it's not that big of a deal On a plane. Just give me some good isolating iems and quality music and I'm enthralled far more and for much longer than I used to be with my iPod and Bose Nouse canceling headphones. I had really good experience with an iPod and my c5 when I got started.


----------



## trivium911

I keep reading that the portable amps compare to the o2...almost as if its refernece for amps and sound quality. One review i read said the jds labs c5 is not quite on par with the o2?? Perhaps i should just get the o2 amp alone because it has the batteries and than down the road get the odac seperate with it and just leave the odac at my desktop. I can use the q1 for my portable needs like the gym and when i fly once or twice a year. The rest of the time at various places around my house i could just use the o2, if i get a longer cable i can just set it on my nightstand and plug it into my x1.


----------



## RojasTKD

trivium911 said:


> I keep reading that the portable amps compare to the o2...almost as if its refernece for amps and sound quality. One review i read said the jds labs c5 is not quite on par with the o2?? Perhaps i should just get the o2 amp alone because it has the batteries and than down the road get the odac seperate with it and just leave the odac at my desktop. I can use the q1 for my portable needs like the gym and when i fly once or twice a year. The rest of the time at various places around my house i could just use the o2, if i get a longer cable i can just set it on my nightstand and plug it into my x1.


 
  
 Funny a few comparisons I have read said they C5D and O2 sounded similar, with the C5D being a touch warmer. Never having heard the O2 I can't say from personal experience, but I understand the C5D was built to be similar to the O2 in a compact portable size. I love the fact that in includes a 3 way bass boot switch, to me that alone is worth getting the C5D over the O2+ODAC especially if you want to be able to use it as a mobile.


----------



## Happytalk

I agree. It is slightly warmer, which can be good. The bass boost has to be one of the best in the business. I wouldn't sweat the details too much. The C5D or the C5 is plenty good. The reason I sold my O2 odac is because my integrated amp has an excellent headphone amp that has great synergy with my hd600's and I just didn't use my laptop much for music. I think the versatility of the C5D wins.


----------



## pperconel

Hi everybody,
 are there many differences between the C5 and C5D level sound reproduction? 
 I look around to eventually change my Pico slim. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 Thank


----------



## trivium911

I think i will end up getting the components to build an o2 myself....than get the c5d down the road. Im actually having a difficult time finding the c5d. One site wants 325 canadian fornth c5d which in my opinion is overpriced. I could always get just the c5 and use it plugged into my onboard sound of my desktop and see what it sounds like


----------



## RojasTKD

I just picked up a used Hifiman HE-500, couldn't resist. How well can the C5D drive the HE-500? Any one have expierence driving an HE-500?
  
 I won't be able to get another DAC/AMP for a few month or more (I also have a Creative Sound Blaster E5).
  
 Thoughts?


----------



## trivium911

Well the c5d does not advertise power output in mw and im too lazy to do the v conversio ...however the cayin c5 does. From what i hear and on paper the cayin c5 has more power than the objective 2. Im just opting for the objective 2 since everyone seems to compare all the amps to that... unfortuanately though anything made in the usa imported into canada cost's more money right now due to the inflated american dollar. Both the jds labs and cayin c5 cost $215 canadian. In your case though if you.are concerned about power i would get the cayin c5.


----------



## trivium911

pperconel said:


> Hi everybody,
> are there many differences between the C5 and C5D level sound reproduction?
> I look around to eventually change my Pico slim.
> 
> ...




The c5 has more power than the c5d but from what ive read they sound very similair to the same.


----------



## trivium911

happytalk said:


> I had an odac and objective 2. I liked the combo. I wouldn't bring the O2 in a plane. That just sounds like a pain in the ass. I have and would happily stack a C5 or C5D to a DAP on a plane. These days my dx90 and er4s does the job nicely. Over time I realized that it's not that big of a deal On a plane. Just give me some good isolating iems and quality music and I'm enthralled far more and for much longer than I used to be with my iPod and Bose Nouse canceling headphones. I had really good experience with an iPod and my c5 when I got started.




I would be fine with brining it on a plane compared to some peoples laptops and what not...im planning on fliying to st. Lucia for my honeymoon later this year which is about an 8 hour flight...so the batteries should just last long enough. I dont turn down extra excersize when on vacation and away from the gym lol....my only concern is they may think im trying to bring a bomb onboard or aomething lol.


----------



## pperconel

Citation: 





> Posté par *trivium911* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Le c5 a plus de pouvoir que le C5D mais de ce que Ive a lu ils sonnent très similair au même.


 
 Ok, thank a lot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





​
 ​
 ​take the C5, not the C5D finaly


----------



## bzippy

more than 6 months with the C5 & 1st gen FiiO X3 stack into Senn HD600 and i gotta say i am still so happy i rarely come here anymore. the clarity and natural sound of the C5 still amazes me every time i turn it on. way to go JDSL!


----------



## Fungus

What is the maximum output power per channel into a 32 load for the c5?


----------



## Koolpep

fungus said:


> What is the maximum output power per channel into a 32 load for the c5?




A little search in this thread or in the JDSLabs spec sheet on their website would have shown you the answer:


1.182 VRMS at 32 Ohm

Cheers,
K


----------



## bzippy

koolpep said:


> A little search in this thread or in the JDSLabs spec sheet on their website would have shown you the answer:
> 
> 1.182 VRMS at 32 Ohm
> 
> ...




That's voltage. You can get close to the power by using P=(V^2)/R, which gives about 44mW. But that's not very accurate because 32ohm is impedance and not resistance. Anyway I can't easily find the power listed anywhere on the web, so I'm not surprised he asked for it here.


----------



## Koolpep

bzippy said:


> koolpep said:
> 
> 
> > A little search in this thread or in the JDSLabs spec sheet on their website would have shown you the answer:
> ...


 

 What's the margin of error?
  
 There is a great "Search this thread" function. Just searching for "mW" would have given the result - much better than asking the already answered question one more time.
  
 If that's not enough for you why don't you contact JDSLabs support and post the results here?
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## bzippy

koolpep said:


> What's the margin of error?
> 
> There is a great "Search this thread" function. Just searching for "mW" would have given the result - much better than asking the already answered question one more time.
> 
> ...


 

 don't know. i'm an engineer but not an electrical one. the issue is AC vs DC, and the AC equations are more complicated due to the periodic nature of AC. i'm sure i learned all this in school but it's long gone now.
  
 anyway, to Fungus: i can tell you that the C5 effortlessly drives my 300 ohm Senn HD600's, even on low gain, if that helps. otherwise if you really need to know i'd contact JDSL and ask them directly.


----------



## Fungus

koolpep said:


> A little search in this thread or in the JDSLabs spec sheet on their website would have shown you the answer:
> 
> 
> 1.182 VRMS at 32 Ohm
> ...


 
 wow 43.66mW is extremely low even compared to most phones. Most portable amps have an output power above 300mW at 32ohm.


----------



## Koolpep

fungus said:


> wow 43.66mW is extremely low even compared to most phones. Most portable amps have an output power above 300mW at 32ohm.




Yes, you are right. It's very low. However since the amp itself is done so well, I was very surprised of how good it drove some bigger cans. Power is not everything. But it's clearly aimed at IEMs and excels with them. 

Cheers,
K


----------



## stefanolandesca

How do the jdslabs c5d fare against the cayin c5d? In terms of sonic qualities.


----------



## Fungus

stefanolandesca said:


> How do the jdslabs c5d fare against the cayin c5d? In terms of sonic qualities.


 
 The amp section in the cayin c5dac is different than the cayin c5, has significantly lower output power whist the jds c5d has the same amp found in the jds c5.


----------



## stefanolandesca

fungus said:


> The amp section in the cayin c5dac is different than the cayin c5, has significantly lower output power whist the jds c5d has the same amp found in the jds c5.



Thanks. How about the sound difference bet the two?


----------



## MadSounds

I've had my C5D with Dunu dn-2000 for like 18 months and just sold it minutes ago. realised i love it and never posted in this thread.

The C5D might have been my single biggest step up in my high-fi world. had dn-900 with i-pod g7, then dn-2000, then got the C5D. Man did that make all the difference, first time having a solid chain from source to ear. After that ive got theHE-500 driven with a low end speaker amp headphone jack, which was OK but lacked some clarrity and treble that the portable rig had. serious amp (NFB-28) was almost as big of an upgrade as first getting the C5D. Just got LCD-3f which i love, but with diminishing are steep and they're not THAT much better then my he-500's.


----------



## bavinck

fungus said:


> The amp section in the cayin c5dac is different than the cayin c5, has significantly lower output power whist the jds c5d has the same amp found in the jds c5.


 
 Dude, you really need to stop talking about things you have no experience with. My experience is the cayin c5 and cayin c5dac are basically equal on the volume level with my alpha primes. Cayin must be under reporting the power capabilities of the c5dac.
  
 Not everything sounds like paper suggests it will. Real world listening experience is required.


----------



## kreesHF

Hi,
 I'm a new joiner here and wonder whether my setup is right. Got the C5D a few days ago. First amp DAC I've ever owned.
 Keep it short : installed foobar2000 a long time ago, it's up to date. Now added the ASIO drivers. Plus the plugin. Did whatever tweaks forums recommend to get a bit perfect stream down to the DAC.
 It does work, other applications don't produce any sound for instance (ASIO graps full control over audio, I gathered).
  
 I've 2 questions:
 - I read the Window 7 volume control was de activated in normal configuration but this isn't the case on my rig. So is this right ? I get pure digital output shouldn't be controlled on its 'volume' unless the digital format can carry a dB adjustment ???
 - how can I know what is indeed passed down to the DAC ? I mean what do the figures foobar reports mean, the 'intrinsics' of the file read, or the stream sent to the DAC (that may have gone through windows horrid degradations ?)
 I want to be sure the bit perfect stream is  indeed used.
  
 Now, it sounds great but I can't tell how much great it sounds yet 
  
 Cheers all !
  
 Christophe, Paris area, France.
  
 PS: I use a Sennheiser HD25-1 mkII for commute, and an AKG Q701 here at home. Always was disappointed with the latter, but I have high hopes with my C5D... targetting a very different 'sound signature' soon with a Grado SR325e though (strings sound amazing, and being kind of 'projected' into the music is feeling real good  !)


----------



## pperconel

Hi all,
 someone has compared these amps will :
 Pico Slim
 Vorzuge
  





 Which produces the sound airy, spacious with headphones and headsets drive correctly as the HD600?
 Thanks.


----------



## Longnotes

Can anyone tell me if the C5D is powerful enough to drive full sized headphones?
 I'm thinking of getting this and a k612 but the C5D is not powerful enough according to this site: http://www.audiobot9000.com/match/akg/k-612-pro/with/jds-labs/c5d


----------



## Yobster69

longnotes said:


> Can anyone tell me if the C5D is powerful enough to drive full sized headphones
> I'm thinking of getting this and a k612 but the C5D is not powerful enough according to this site: http://www.audiobot9000.com/match/akg/k-612-pro/with/jds-labs/c5d


Well I cannot comment on the K612's, but this guide also says it does not have enough power for the Fostex TH-X00's and I do have these, and it has more than enough to power them. On low gain I only need to increase it a few db more than my Velvets to get the volume I need. I'm not sure this guide is all that correct. 
You might be best to wait until somebody else chimes in though.


----------



## RojasTKD

longnotes said:


> Can anyone tell me if the C5D is powerful enough to drive full sized headphones?
> I'm thinking of getting this and a k612 but the C5D is not powerful enough according to this site: http://www.audiobot9000.com/match/akg/k-612-pro/with/jds-labs/c5d


 
  
  


yobster69 said:


> Well I cannot comment on the K612's, but this guide also says it does not have enough power for the Fostex TH-X00's and I do have these, and it has more than enough to power them. On low gain I only need to increase it a few db more than my Velvets to get the volume I need. I'm not sure this guide is all that correct.
> You might be best to wait until somebody else chimes in though.


 
  
 I've used it to drive my AKG K712 with no issues. I've even driven my HiFiMan HE-500s it can drive then pretty well. The 500 will distort if I try to push the volume up a little too much and I can get a reasonable listening level without issue. I would think it's adequate enough for the K612.


----------



## kreesHF

Hi, anybody's got a clue whether OTG cables exist with this smart magnetic tip that goes off without breaking both source and amp/dac if you're clumsy enough to get your fingers/feets in the mesh of dangling cables? It didn't happen to me (errr, well, not yet) but I'd be more comfy if that existed really... a goole search on "magnetic micro usb cable" will give you the idea... cheerios.


----------



## Raketen

Anyone have thoughts for a DAP that is similar to C5D? So far have suggestion of Cayin N5.


----------



## Dexter22

raketen said:


> Anyone have thoughts for a DAP that is similar to C5D? So far have suggestion of Cayin N5.


 
 I m using a FiiO E12 sourced from a Xduoo X3, to a K551 and K702. I feel the E12 not the right match for K702. I have a plan to ditch my Hifimediy 9018 (asynchronous 384khz version) DAC and the E12. If I get a C5D will it be better sounding option for K702 than both these cases:
 Xduoo -> E12 and Hifimediy -> E12?. I am planning to retain the Xduoo as its my cheapest way for quality on the go music, which I do not have to take extra care for being used-rough!


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

longnotes said:


> Can anyone tell me if the C5D is powerful enough to drive full sized headphones?
> I'm thinking of getting this and a k612 but the C5D is not powerful enough according to this site: http://www.audiobot9000.com/match/akg/k-612-pro/with/jds-labs/c5d


 


rojastkd said:


> I've used it to drive my AKG K712 with no issues. I've even driven my HiFiMan HE-500s it can drive then pretty well. The 500 will distort if I try to push the volume up a little too much and I can get a reasonable listening level without issue. I would think it's adequate enough for the K612.


 
 Definitely. I don't know why that site says that but the C5D outputs more power than the O2 (mine has 3x gain). I have the K612, the O2 and borrowed the C5D for some time. While having higher impedance the K612 actually requires less power than the K7** series and perhaps one of the most easily driven cans I've had. In fact I have never met an external amp that cannot drive the K612 to adequate volume. Even my Little Dot I+, which is made specifically for low-imp cans, can drive the K612 to full volume at around 1 - 2 o' clock.
  
 So no worries.


----------



## doniethegreat

Waiting for my C5 amplifier to pair with my NWZ A25 and sennheiser CX215. I hope they are compatible.


----------



## Raketen

doniethegreat said:


> Waiting for my C5 amplifier to pair with my NWZ A5 and sennheiser CX215. I hope they are compatible.


 
 A15 you mean?  Use C5D with my A17 line or headphone out pretty regularly with a wide range of inears, seems to keep the Sony sound intact.


----------



## doniethegreat

raketen said:


> A15 you mean?  Use C5D with my A17 line or headphone out pretty regularly with a wide range of inears, seems to keep the Sony sound intact.


 
  
 A25 I mean. Does it give significant improvement to your A15's sound? Also C5D includes DAC, in order to bypass SOn's DAC, you need some sort of cable like WMC-NH10 usb conversion cable.


----------



## Raketen

doniethegreat said:


> A25 I mean. Does it give significant improvement to your A15's sound? Also C5D includes DAC, in order to bypass SOn's DAC, you need some sort of cable like WMC-NH10 usb conversion cable.


 
 Yes it has a DAC but it also has analog input for using as just an amp.
 No, I wouldnt' say it improves the sound exactly, but I think it is fairly transparent (as an amp only, obv), and as the A10 series has low output and slightly high impedance a number of headphones seemingly perform better with it than without.


----------



## Immiscible

Hi, I have a pair of PSB M4U1 running off an iPhone 5 most of the time, and I just feel like they have to be pushed quite loud before the music stops feeling so flat, and then only a little louder and it will start distorting a little. I'm no audiophile so I'm not sure how to describe it better. I was hoping to get a portable amp to hopefully open up the sound at lower volumes...
  
 At the moment I'm contemplating the JDS C5/CD5 (not sure which out of those two) or their little CMYOBB, if just a little more power is all the M4U1 need. I prefer a more neutral sound (not too bassy) but with with dynamic instrument separation, I guess.
  
 I'm also contemplating:
 http://www.peachtreeaudio.com/shift.html or
 http://www.headphonia.com/Arrow-6NX/6TX/Headstage-Arrow-6NX::10144.html?XTCsid=bac630d1250348ac5c1eb643fbfdf36c or
 https://www.oppodigital.com/headphone-amplifier-ha-2/
  
 Any thoughts and advice would be appreciated.


----------



## Yobster69

immiscible said:


> Hi, I have a pair of PSB M4U1 running off an iPhone 5 most of the time, and I just feel like they have to be pushed quite loud before the music stops feeling so flat, and then only a little louder and it will start distorting a little. I'm no audiophile so I'm not sure how to describe it better. I was hoping to get a portable amp to hopefully open up the sound at lower volumes...
> 
> At the moment I'm contemplating the JDS C5/CD5 (not sure which out of those two) or their little CMYOBB, if just a little more power is all the M4U1 need. I prefer a more neutral sound (not too bassy) but with with dynamic instrument separation, I guess.
> 
> ...


Personally I'd go with the oppo ha2. It's form factor will fit nicely with the 5. The little Kero Nomad lightning cable is rock solid with it so you get the benefit of the DAC as well as amplification. And the Oppo has plenty of power and clarity to run the M4U1's nicely. Just my 2 cents. 
The C5 would mean double amping. And the C5D means you have to use the CCK cable which is a pain in the ar*e, I know as that's what I was doing previously. 
I don't have any experience with the headstage or peachtree, so you may wish for others to chime in first. 
Good luck, but if you go for the Oppo I'm 99.99% sure you will be happy as Larry


----------



## theintrospect

Can I ask how's the synergy between the C5D and the Shure 846s? 
 I use the 846 through my iPhone 6+. What changes in sound should I expect when going with the C5D. In particular
  
 1. Does it improve the bass response ?
 2. Any noticeable hiss/background noise compared to the iPhone 6+ ?
 3. Any EMI with the iPhone?
 (All of these questions are specific to the 846).
  
 I really am glad we have such a great place to get feedback and share our experiences.
  
 Thanks !


----------



## jynxed

theintrospect I can't compare iPhone 6 but have the 846 and a recent C5D, no hiss at all or decernable background noise for me. No IEM noise on an iPhone 5s my husband refuses to upgrade away from. No IEM noise with S6 edge plus or Nexus 5. Bass response is good imo and you ofc have the option of using the bass boost function on the C5D.


----------



## theintrospect

jynxed said:


> theintrospect I can't compare iPhone 6 but have the 846 and a recent C5D, no hiss at all or decernable background noise for me. No IEM noise on an iPhone 5s my husband refuses to upgrade away from. No IEM noise with S6 edge plus or Nexus 5. Bass response is good imo and you ofc have the option of using the bass boost function on the C5D.



Thanks ! Then I'm in for a treat


----------



## jynxed

theintrospect said:


> Thanks ! Then I'm in for a treat




It is odd as some say they hear a noise floor with the 2, I never did and hate hiss. I guess maybe when the specs changed and older units had a higher output impeadance is what accounts for the discrepency. From memory so might be mistaken on this bit (it is been a while since I used the specific pairing due to new kit -other half has c5d now) I usually found using the higher bass setting way too much for my tastes.


----------



## theintrospect

jynxed said:


> It is odd as some say they hear a noise floor with the 2, I never did and hate hiss. I guess maybe when the specs changed and older units had a higher output impeadance is what accounts for the discrepency. From memory so might be mistaken on this bit (it is been a while since I used the specific pairing due to new kit -other half has c5d now) I usually found using the higher bass setting way too much for my tastes.




So I reckon it's an excellent pairing. Did you mean that your husband doesn't want to abandon the c5d ? Or the iPhone ? Or the pairing ?


----------



## jynxed

I meant he wont get shut of his old iphone for some reason, I think it is just stubourness. I also liked the pairing personally, the C5D /846. C5D my 1st amp/dac and really helped develop my interest, I still use it just not as much as my dap now as I like my phone to be free. 

In fact, you have talked me in to taking it back and setting it up with an old mobile as a bed time set up, the husband is getting lots of VR stuff in the next few weeks so it is the ideal time to aquire it back!

Pleased you are enjoying your new toy, I think the little C5D is somewhat overshadowed on here by the oppo ha2 which is a similar cost and the more recent and expensive mojo. Still most deffinatly has a place in one of my setups though.


----------



## theintrospect

jynxed said:


> I meant he wont get shut of his old iphone for some reason, I think it is just stubourness. I also liked the pairing personally, the C5D /846. C5D my 1st amp/dac and really helped develop my interest, I still use it just not as much as my dap now as I like my phone to be free.
> 
> In fact, you have talked me in to taking it back and setting it up with an old mobile as a bed time set up, the husband is getting lots of VR stuff in the next few weeks so it is the ideal time to aquire it back!
> 
> Pleased you are enjoying your new toy, I think the little C5D is somewhat overshadowed on here by the oppo ha2 which is a similar cost and the more recent and expensive mojo. Still most deffinatly has a place in one of my setups though.




I got the impression from other threads that the oppo ha2 and mojo are not particularly the best pairings with the 8s. Mojo is short on subbass delivery and suffers severe EMI noise with the iPhone, thanks for the feedback you're awesome.


----------



## Yobster69

jynxed said:


> I meant he wont get shut of his old iphone for some reason, I think it is just stubourness. I also liked the pairing personally, the C5D /846. C5D my 1st amp/dac and really helped develop my interest, I still use it just not as much as my dap now as I like my phone to be free.
> 
> In fact, you have talked me in to taking it back and setting it up with an old mobile as a bed time set up, the husband is getting lots of VR stuff in the next few weeks so it is the ideal time to aquire it back!
> 
> Pleased you are enjoying your new toy, I think the little C5D is somewhat overshadowed on here by the oppo ha2 which is a similar cost and the more recent and expensive mojo. Still most deffinatly has a place in one of my setups though.


Here here, I second that, as although I now have the HA2 the little C5D will never be sold and still pairs better with some of my phones. And that second step of bass boost is hilarious, I love it with some tracks, takes me back to my clubbing days


----------



## theintrospect

so which one pairs better wit the Shure se846 in your opinion ? the HA2 or the C5D ?


----------



## Varoudis

Was there an updated plot of the boost curve of the c5d in dB or some form of centre frequency, gain and Q maybe (that is close to the measured I mean)??

Thanks


----------



## RojasTKD

Now that I have a new device (phone) with the new USB type C connector, is there a way to make this work with my C5D?
  
 I have a Micro USB to USB-C adapter coming, but my understanding is the USB OTG in not in the USB-C standard. So I;m guessing this may bot be a solution.
  
 Anyone have any knowledge on this issue.
  
 BTW the USB-C and quick charge 3.0 on my G5 is super fast at charging.


----------



## TraceStar

JDS labs has a post on their Facebook page for a USB type c to type a connector to get their DACs working with USB type c phones. I don't see why a USB type c to USB mini wouldn't work.

 https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1138155332871915&substory_index=0&id=213109922043132

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## RojasTKD

tracestar said:


> JDS labs has a post on their Facebook page for a USB type c to type a connector to get their DACs working with USB type c phones. I don't see why a USB type c to USB mini wouldn't work.
> 
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1138155332871915&substory_index=0&id=213109922043132
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk




Thanks so much for the reply. If there isn't a mini USB to USB-C cable I'll just use the Sound Blaster E5 via BT and avoid freadealing with clunky USB A thing, if this doesn't do the trick:

http://www.amazon.com/Anker-Adapter-Converts-Resistor-ChromeBook/dp/B01AHKYIRS?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00


----------



## TraceStar

rojastkd said:


> Thanks so much for the reply. If there isn't a mini USB to USB-C cable I'll just use the Sound Blaster E5 via BT and avoid freadealing with clunky USB A thing, if this doesn't do the trick:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Anker-Adapter-Converts-Resistor-ChromeBook/dp/B01AHKYIRS?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00




A quick search shows that it's out there. Whether it's easily available or not might be another thing. I didn't check eBay or Amazon, just googled it up. 

http://m.belkin.com/us/p/P-F2CU034/

Monoprice also seem to have it
http://www.monoprice.com/pages/usb_31_type_c


----------



## RojasTKD

tracestar said:


> A quick search shows that it's out there. Whether it's easily available or not might be another thing. I didn't check eBay or Amazon, just googled it up.
> 
> http://m.belkin.com/us/p/P-F2CU034/
> 
> ...




Thanks, my Google-fu was apparently weak. Now to find out is they will work as OTG.


----------



## theintrospect

Has anyone had a chance to compare the c5d and mojo ? Especially when paired with the Shure se846s ?


----------



## Fredrik23

tracestar said:


> JDS labs has a post on their Facebook page for a USB type c to type a connector to get their DACs working with USB type c phones. I don't see why a USB type c to USB mini wouldn't work.
> 
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1138155332871915&substory_index=0&id=213109922043132
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


 

 Seems like they have just rolled out a usb c to mini b cable
  
 https://www.jdslabs.com/products/164/usb-cable-type-c-to-mini-b-otg/


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

theintrospect said:


> Has anyone had a chance to compare the c5d and mojo ? Especially when paired with the Shure se846s ?


 
 I prefer the Mojo to my o2/odac combo, and I prefer my o2/odac to the c5d. But the price difference is too much.


----------



## speedyd718

Was going to come here to post if the C5D would work with the SE846, I'm moving up to from the SE535. I bought my C5D earlier this month, because I'm unhappy with the audio on my Nexus6p (was using Viper4Android on my Note2, but don't plan to root my 6p). The C5D and SE535 are great together. Glad to read that the SE846 should be a fine as well. I'm assuming this because the more recent C5D's have a lower imepedance to match.


----------



## Fredrik23

I am very happy with the se846, c5d combo. I do hear a slight hiss, but nothing compared to the output of 6p. (I have exactly the same setup)


----------



## RojasTKD

fredrik23 said:


> Seems like they have just rolled out a usb c to mini b cable
> 
> https://www.jdslabs.com/products/164/usb-cable-type-c-to-mini-b-otg/


 
 Thanks...
  
 Just got this today and am happy to report it works both with my Nexus 6P and LG G5.
  
 The Anker Micro USB to SUB-C adapter from amazon did not work.


----------



## svmusa

Any users here with C5D and Fostex TH900 phones?
  
 I am a bass lover and the bass boost on these is my draw but TH900 can get harsh for me in highs on some recordings and hoping C5D is not a bright sounding from get go.


----------



## TraceStar

I don't find the C5D bright. Pretty neutral for me unless I turn on the bass boost. Listening on Grado and Sennheiser phones.


----------



## RojasTKD

tracestar said:


> I don't find the C5D bright. Pretty neutral for me unless I turn on the bass boost. Listening on Grado and Sennheiser phones.




Agreed.

I've heardthe C5D described as neutral with a touch of warmness. I think that's about right.


----------



## Raketen

rojastkd said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I've heardthe C5D described as neutral with a touch of warmness. I think that's about right.


 

 +1, just a bit warm of what I would consider neutralish.


----------



## svmusa

How is the bass boost experience? I am bass biased so hoping this would be good enough to shake the Fostex to a decent level.


----------



## Raketen

svmusa said:


> How is the bass boost experience? I am bass biased so hoping this would be good enough to shake the Fostex to a decent level.


 

 It's a pretty big boost - you can see for the C5D here on low gain: http://blog.jdslabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/C5D-Bass-Boost-Curves-Low-Gain.png   here on high gain: http://blog.jdslabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/C5D-Bass-Boost-Curves-High-Gain.png

 IDK how it would do with Fostex- over on the Hardest Hitting Headphones thread, when I asked, general opinion seemed to be that JDS C5D is a bit underpowered for maxing out bass with some of their preferred full size cans- guess it depends how far you take it. Might ask over there if you haven't already.


----------



## Happytalk

C5d is sligthly warmer than the c5. I think t would have enough power. Buy a used one. They are a good value and such good quality that it's safe to buy one used. I have one for sale in the classifieds! (Shameless plug)


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Guys
 Is there anyway to output just the DAC signal (un-attenuated)?


----------



## Yobster69

williamleonhart said:


> Guys
> Is there anyway to output just the DAC signal (un-attenuated)?


Hiya, no, I'm afraid there is no line out on the C5D. It's AMP or DAC/AMP only, which is a shame. They could have implemented it by maxing the volume which then switches off the AMP section and leaves the headphone out as a line out, as I've head of this on others, but unfortunately they didn't 
I hope this helps


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

It's as I fear then. Anyway my speaker system didn't had any problem when I used the O2+ODAC as a DAC/preamp combo, so I hope it'll be the same with the C5D.


----------



## Dexter22

williamleonhart said:


> It's as I fear then. Anyway my speaker system didn't had any problem when I used the O2+ODAC as a DAC/preamp combo, so I hope it'll be the same with the C5D.


the good thibg about o2 is it works well with low impedance iems in my opinion well. So, i think the amp mistook my luxman power amp section of l410 as a low impedance headphone and acted like a pre amp. I must say, me and my friend who tried it found it really close to the pre amp of my integrated. So, i think its the same with your case, using it with an active speaker. It may just work as good as a line out.


----------



## RolfBlom

would the c5d drive a pair of dt 880s 600 ohm?


----------



## slackerpo

rolfblom said:


> would the c5d drive a pair of dt 880s 600 ohm?


 
  
 i think you should be ok, ill try some 600ohm akg's and get back to you.


----------



## claud W

Sitting here, listening to my iPod Classic playing Apple lossless into my C5, then into my good old HD 600s sounds so good, I wonder if a good DAP would improve the sound quality enough to be worth the expense. My C5 is the older model with only one bass boost setting, so I do not use it


----------



## Happytalk

That's a great setup. I wouldn't sweat it. Things can be slightly better or a sideways move in many aspects. Not necessary to change a thing. The bass boost is nice. I have the same version of c5. Not necessary with the 600's though. I like it with my er4s iems when traveling though.


----------



## goh2499

Been enjoying my beautiful C5D. Would like to thank JDS Labs for free engraving and placing the silver faceplates on it.


I can really drive my head phones to dangerous levels now and talk about a new rush.

Just have some questions about how otg works with this dac/amp set up. I read earlier that some were feeling that it was quieter through their phone than through their pc when using the dac. When I connect through my phone I find my volume controls still work connected via usb. Does This mean I am only passing an audio stream only and essentially double amping and using my phone's dac on the LG G5? Or does the otg specifications allow the volume controls to work still and I'm using th dac on the C5D? I'm pretty tech savvy but this has me stumped.


----------



## Level

Wow, that engraving is awesome!
  
 I've had my C5D for two days now and would also like to know the answer to this question. I love the volume toggle on this unit, very quick and easy to access.And yes, it sounds very clean, an excellent pairing with the LP5K.


----------



## slackerpo

goh2499 said:


> Been enjoying my beautiful C5D. Would like to thank JDS Labs for free engraving and placing the silver faceplates on it.
> 
> 
> I can really drive my head phones to dangerous levels now and talk about a new rush.
> ...


 
  
 it would depend on the app config that your are using.


----------



## goh2499

slackerpo said:


> it would depend on the app config that your are using.



I have been able to do some additional research. Discovered that the USAC1 standard allows for volume controls on a device to control volume to the dac if manufacturer has not locked the functionality with the device. I was not able to find settings that locked volume controls when using the the usb otg function.


----------



## Dexter22

One quick question. Can I buy this to replace my hifimediy sabre 9018 as DAC and fiio e12 as amp? Looking forward to use it with a beoplay h6 1stgen. Can I expect better treble extension than e12?


----------



## bana

claud w said:


> Sitting here, listening to my iPod Classic playing Apple lossless into my C5, then into my good old HD 600s sounds so good, I wonder if a good DAP would improve the sound quality enough to be worth the expense. My C5 is the older model with only one bass boost setting, so I do not use it


 

 What cable are you using between iPod Classic and C5?
  
 Thanks,


----------



## claud W

Its a Fiio Ipod dock to 3.5 connector I got on Amazon. I would love to find a dock to USB made by ALO or some wire wizard like Alex at Wywires.


----------



## Dexter22

claud w said:


> Its a Fiio Ipod dock to 3.5 connector I got on Amazon. I would love to find a dock to USB made by ALO or some wire wizard like Alex at Wywires.


c5d had been in market for a while now. I recentlx noticed the cheap fiio k1 has almost the same dac as the c5d, anyone thinks k1 has a sense of the c5d with respect to sound though it may not be as powerful as the c5d. With sensitive iems, can k1 perform similar to c5d?


----------



## sharktopus

jseaber said:


> Use a pogo pin attachment with any ISP programmer:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spring-Loaded-Pogo-Pins-Receptacles-for-Jtag-/250546684662?pt=PCC_Modems&hash=item3a55bf02f6
> 
> If you already have Arduino working with your ISP programmer, most work is done. Just place the boards.txt file in the appropriate directory, select the "C5" board in Arduino, then upload your new code.


 
 First off, sorry for commenting on a post that's several years old.  I'm looking into tweaking my C5D's code a bit to lower the gain and make it less loud with my sensitive IEM's.  From what I can tell, using the pogo pins prevents you from having to solder anything onto the board?  So do you just stick these into the receptacle on the end of the ISP programmer's cable and then press the whole thing up to the C5D's jtag contacts?  If so, I'm stoked about the idea of not having to try to solder anything to my board (my soldering skills are pretty terrible). Thanks.


----------



## jseaber

Gain magnitude is fixed in hardware. Firmware only allows toggling between the hardware defined low and high positions.


----------



## sharktopus

jseaber said:


> Gain magnitude is fixed in hardware. Firmware only allows toggling between the hardware defined low and high positions.


 
 Ah, I thought that I had read somewhere (maybe in this thread) that there was a way to lower the initial gain level.


----------



## FunctionalDoc

Can use this unit just for just the amp only section?
  
 How well can it drive higher sensitivity planar headphones such as HIFIMAN HE 400I or similar?
  
 Battery life?
  
 Ho does this stand up in amp section to FiiO A5  and Pico Power amp ? 
  
 How does pair with Cowon Plenue M2  DAP ?
  
 Thnaks


----------



## Dexter22

functionaldoc said:


> Can use this unit just for just the amp only section?
> 
> How well can it drive higher sensitivity planar headphones such as HIFIMAN HE 400I or similar?
> 
> ...


 
 You can use the amp section alone, unless its repogrammed in such a way that , the analog in is now the 'line out'. Amp section is really good, I felt it to be more linear, less noisy than my old FiiO E12, which had more power. I felt the sound to be balanced, though not wide as the FiiO: I dont have any of the other devices u had mentioned, but with my FiiO X5 2nd Gen, it sounds really good. Battery is quite low compared to FiiO products. I get around 6 hours with amp dac mode, and at the max of 8 with just amp alone with a low impedance headphone.


----------



## MistahBungle

functionaldoc said:


> How well can it drive higher sensitivity planar headphones such as HIFIMAN HE 400I or similar?
> Thnaks




Drives my Fostex TH500RP (also planar/similar sensitivity to yours) just fine on high gain, but I prefer the sounds of the Fiio E12 DIY with those tbh.

Edit to add - This is still a great little amp (+DAC now) regardless btw, wouldn't use anything else with my CIEMs/AK100, black background, pretty good battery life, really well made, just plain sounds nice.


----------



## sharktopus

mistahbungle said:


> Drives my Fostex TH500RP (also planar/similar sensitivity to yours) just fine on high gain, but I prefer the sounds of the Fiio E12 DIY with those tbh.
> 
> Edit to add - This is still a great little amp (+DAC now) regardless btw, wouldn't use anything else with my CIEMs/AK100, black background, pretty good battery life, really well made, just plain sounds nice.


 
 I agree!  I've been using i mine with both sensitive IEMs (audio technica IM02s) and my planar Mad Dogs.  It preforms quite well with both, and is especially nice with the IM02s because the background is so quiet.  I get a lot of background hiss and noise on a lot of other sources, but none with my C5D.  I'm getting a pair of hifiman HE-500s in the next week or two, so I'll hook em up and give you an update on how it does.


----------



## pukemon

functionaldoc said:


> Can use this unit just for just the amp only section?
> 
> How well can it drive higher sensitivity planar headphones such as HIFIMAN HE 400I or similar?
> 
> ...




Not sure about planars. Peeps have been pleasantly at the capability to drive 600ohms at listenable levels though. Battery life not sure as I'm a casual listener.

Amp section is clean and powerful enough for probably 95% of stuff out there.

I've seen some arguments out there about Cowon plenue. Most will say Cowon still easily bests the v20, but some of those guys also say only having to lug one device and their favorite buds/cans for portability is worth the sacrifice plus you get full Android experience with calls and texts in one device. I haven't heard the Cowon plenue but if absolute best sound you can get is more important and if you can easily afford it I would get it. I was considering the plenue before I got the v20. Not even on my radar now. Hoping the v30 keeps replaceable battery and OLED screen and perhaps asahi kasei 4458/4490 DAC.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Quality finish on the volume control?
Any issues with listening while charging via computer USB 3.0 port?

On the fence now between the FiiO A3 and the JDS Labs C5 (Amp only model not C5D)... deciding factors are usb charging via pc and the quality/accuracy of the volume controls which I am still investigating. Any input would be appreciated.


----------



## sharktopus

functionaldoc said:


> How well can it drive higher sensitivity planar headphones such as HIFIMAN HE 400I or similar?


 
 So I got curious and plugged my Hifiman he500s into my c5d and they do surprisingly well!  Though I've noticed that to my ear it seems to make it a bit more picky of your source material/player.  Also, it eats up my battery quite a bit faster; though mine is also several years old now and much of my listening with it has been on the battery, so that could have some effect.  As a side effect, it gets a mite less portable with the massive adapter and cable plug sticking out of your otherwise small amp.


----------



## sharktopus

woodyluvr said:


> Quality finish on the volume control?
> Any issues with listening while charging via computer USB 3.0 port?
> 
> On the fence now between the FiiO A3 and the JDS Labs C5 (Amp only model not C5D)... deciding factors are usb charging via pc and the quality/accuracy of the volume controls which I am still investigating. Any input would be appreciated.


 
 I have never had any issues with either of these with over a year of heavy use.


----------



## Dexter22

sharktopus said:


> I have never had any issues with either of these with over a year of heavy use.


 
  


woodyluvr said:


> Quality finish on the volume control?
> Any issues with listening while charging via computer USB 3.0 port?
> 
> On the fence now between the FiiO A3 and the JDS Labs C5 (Amp only model not C5D)... deciding factors are usb charging via pc and the quality/accuracy of the volume controls which I am still investigating. Any input would be appreciated.


 
 I am assuming that you are looking at a used C5, as the price wise c5 must fall into an upper category. I had a FiiO e12, and now a c5d. After longer use, the analogue FiiO control has slight  scratching noises when turned, also channel imbalances before 9 o clock. I dont know about a3. Seeing your signature, if your really like your Beoplay to be neutral sounding, go for the JDS. E12 was fun, but not neutral. Exaggerated mids are good with voices, but C5 always brings that sparkling nuances in the upper frequencies which the H6 are good at. Bass wise, FiiO adds lot of body, JDS sounds thin. BUT; JDS is tight, decays are fast, and its a much more dynamic listen than FiiO. I am ASSUMING FiiO A3 to be inferior to e12, as I had only e12. May be A5 will be a good competitor. If you know any place where you can buy c5 for the price of A3, do let me know too..  One thing annoying about JDS is the battery life is compartively lower to fiio products.


----------



## Happytalk

I'd always choose JDS Labs over Fiio for budget amps/dacs. I kind of wish John would design and manufacture a DAP. However, I realize when it comes to firmware and UI it can get tricky.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

dexter22 said:


> I am assuming that you are looking at a used C5, as the price wise c5 must fall into an upper category. I had a FiiO e12, and now a c5d. After longer use, the analogue FiiO control has slight  scratching noises when turned, also channel imbalances before 9 o clock. I dont know about a3. Seeing your signature, if your really like your Beoplay to be neutral sounding, go for the JDS. E12 was fun, but not neutral. Exaggerated mids are good with voices, but C5 always brings that sparkling nuances in the upper frequencies which the H6 are good at. Bass wise, FiiO adds lot of body, JDS sounds thin. BUT; JDS is tight, decays are fast, and its a much more dynamic listen than FiiO. I am ASSUMING FiiO A3 to be inferior to e12, as I had only e12. May be A5 will be a good competitor. If you know any place where you can buy c5 for the price of A3, do let me know too..  One thing annoying about JDS is the battery life is compartively lower to fiio products.


 
 No real budget at the moment... under 200-300 I guess.  Looking at new models at the moment.  Also considering the Aune B1 Amp.  Yes, definitely want something that will work well with my B&O H6 headphones as I really like them and I have already given my LCD-2s away.  Don't much care about the battery life as I will have it plugged in via my PC computer usb 3.0 port.
  


happytalk said:


> I'd always choose JDS Labs over Fiio for budget amps/dacs. I kind of wish John would design and manufacture a DAP. However, I realize when it comes to firmware and UI it can get tricky.


 
 Appreciate the feedback.  I liked my JDS Labs O2 quite a lot... just wish it would come back to me    LOL, all good, it is currently at a good home being well used.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

sharktopus said:


> I have never had any issues with either of these with over a year of heavy use.


 
 Thank you for the input.  Cheers.


----------



## horo2

Hi..
 any of you guys has been tried to compare C5D with Cypher labs algorithm solo? how is it? my local community has both of it on nearly same price, except the Solo no need another expensive CCK to use it's dac for iphone


----------



## Yobster69

horo2 said:


> Hi..
> any of you guys has been tried to compare C5D with Cypher labs algorithm solo? how is it? my local community has both of it on nearly same price, except the Solo no need another expensive CCK to use it's dac for iphone


I have not heard the Solo, but the Solo is a DAC only and not an amplifier, it does not have a 3.5mm headphone out and you would need a separate amp to use it. They are 2 different devices so be aware.


----------



## sharktopus

If it helps at all, JDS labs also makes the C5D (what I've got) and it has both a dac and the C5 amp in the same form factor as the C5.  I don't have too many dacs to compare it to, but especially with my sensitive IEMs, it sounds really good and has a super low noise floor.  I even plug it into my cd player to get rid of its noise when I use those headphones.


----------



## myemaildw

Does c5 have balanced?


----------



## Dexter22

myemaildw said:


> Does c5 have balanced?


. NO


----------



## Mmet

dexter22 said:


> . NO



why not ?


----------



## PaxVobris

I can not decide between a used chord mojo or a brand new c5d. Unfortunately, there is no attempt to buy it in my country. Which would be a good shopping for you? Thanks


----------



## Dexter22

paxvobris said:


> I can not decide between a used chord mojo or a brand new c5d. Unfortunately, there is no attempt to buy it in my country. Which would be a good shopping for you? Thanks


 If i had a chance to get a used mojo for the price of a c5d i would have gone for it, only from the things i heard about it on headfi jds is good with customer sevice, but unless you are in US, its hardly of any use, as you have yo ship them to US.


----------



## PaxVobris

dexter22 said:


> If i had a chance to get a used mojo for the price of a c5d i would have gone for it, only from the things i heard about it on headfi jds is good with customer sevice, but unless you are in US, its hardly of any use, as you have yo ship them to US.




JDS labs products are very popular in my country. I like to listen to classical music and instrumental music (piano violin cello). My head is beyerdynamic dt 660 32 ohm. I suggested here the jds labs c5d instead of chord mojo. I have to be sure before I buy. Please help me


----------



## Yobster69

paxvobris said:


> JDS labs products are very popular in my country. I like to listen to classical music and instrumental music (piano violin cello). My head is beyerdynamic dt 660 32 ohm. I suggested here the jds labs c5d instead of chord mojo. I have to be sure before I buy. Please help me


The Mojo is technically better, but marginallly. If you want a DAC and AMP with bass boost then go for the C5D. If you do not like to boost the bass or EQ at all (i.e. Change the lower end) then the Mojo is the choise as there are no EQ or boost options at all. 
It's the only reason the Mojo is not in my collection.


----------



## claud W

I have certainly enjoyed my C5. Not having any IEMs, it has driven my HD25 Aluminum and HD 600s with ease. Lost my mind this week and ordered Campfire Vegas and RSA Shadow to begin my transition to a DAP at some point.


----------



## speedyd718

I've got a C5D that I've been using with Shure IEM's. I'm deciding to go back to full size headphones. Will this amp still have enough juice to power something like a Shure 1540?
  
 Also, is there a way to calculate this amps power output? It's given in Vrms, rather than Watts like other brands.
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## mpc8240

Isn't it that Mojo should be a magnitude better than C5D just by head-fi? You don't even see the two are compared to each other.
 Don't shoot me -- I own a C5D but not a Mojo


----------



## Dexter22

yobster69 said:


> The Mojo is technically better, but marginallly. If you want a DAC and AMP with bass boost then go for the C5D. If you do not like to boost the bass or EQ at all (i.e. Change the lower end) then the Mojo is the choise as there are no EQ or boost options at all.
> It's the only reason the Mojo is not in my collection.


 MY only reason not to get the mojo is affordability I felt on certain aspects my xduoo x10 directly sounds better on my beoplay h6 than with c5d from the laptop /tab/ phone. Also on amp mode with xduoo, xduoo's stock amp has nicer midrange, and midbass, though not as clean, and tight as the c5d. But, with that player, c5d (amp mode) changes the signature to have cleaner background (i can then listen at lower volumes) but bass becomes lean, and vocals loses body. Soundstage is a little wider on the xduoo's stock amp. I think now if I really need an amp, it should be something better than the c5d, but everything greater seems to be much more expensive. But, using the headphone out as a double amp to my home system it sounds really great, much better than other cheaper dacs / decent cd players I used!


----------



## sharktopus

If anyone is looking to get one of these, I'm (reluctantly) selling my beloved C5D.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/842734/like-new-jds-labs-c5d-amplifier-dac


----------



## sharktopus

Behold!  Photos!


----------



## Dexter22

Did anyone notice a sounddifference with cheap (normal ones u get from ebay 1.8m long ) and a gold plated audiophile matketed one?the one came with it wad broken and i replaced it with a cheap one. Now, its placebo or not, i feel the sound slightly grainy.


----------



## goh2499

Are you referring to the USB Cable? I purchased an inexpensive short cable about 4inches I use with my laptop/phone and have not had any issues. I find the cable it came with to be a little cumbersome for my use.

Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dexter22

Yes, USB cable.. Once mine was broken I bought a cheap one from ebay which was of 1.8m long, and since I was busy I didnt listen to it much after that. Recently I took my c5d again and felt the sound to be a little muddy. Background sounds clean, I dont know exactly how to say it, but overall sound seems to be a little not what I liked in the beginning. I can only see the length of the cable as a problem(I made it up! There is no reference for that anywhere!) Anyway, I ordered a 50cm one from Deleycon, which must be slightly better than the cheapest. Let me see if again Placebo makes me post here again, or I really hear a difference!


----------



## Dexter22

Update: No Placebo here! It didn't sound better!


----------



## sharktopus

I've used several different ones, from the fancy original one, to rando crappy ones, and have yet to hear any sonic differences.


----------



## WilliamLeonhart

Same here. I'd invested a few hundreds on cables and iFi purifiers only to sell them at a cost later. Had to debate with myself if there were any differences. That said, most of the time I only have AACs to enjoy, so it could be my files.


----------



## mandrake50

WilliamLeonhart said:


> Same here. I'd invested a few hundreds on cables and iFi purifiers only to sell them at a cost later. Had to debate with myself if there were any differences. That said, most of the time I only have AACs to enjoy, so it could be my files.


Probably not. I have had similar experiences. I have lots of "hires" files 192/24 DXD and DSD) to test with.


----------



## NewEve

Hi everyone,

Small question for owners of this portable amplifier.

I extensively compared the Alo Audio Continental V5 and the JDS Labs C5D Amp+DAC with my Grado SR325e headphones and Cowen Plenue D DAP.

I can't really tell them apart--not in a significant manner at least.

Does that make sense? How likely is that?


----------



## Happytalk

It happens. Much cheaper that way! You only need one or the other!


----------



## NewEve

Happytalk said:


> It happens. Much cheaper that way! You only need one or the other!



Thank you. I guess I'll keep the JDS... though I liked to whole tube thing


----------



## Ruahrc

At risk of getting too off topic, I am wondering if there is any suggestion about replacing/upgrading my C5D.  Here's why:

I have C5D and am very happy with it.  I use it with an old iPod Touch using 30-pin LOD and drive Etymotic ER4 (I have both SR and XR models) eabuds.

My iPod touch is getting long in the tooth though and the battery life is getting to be pretty poor (my iPod is... 8 or so years old now?).  If I upgrade, it would likely be to a newer iPod touch or maybe an iPhone.  However it seems that the C5D is not compatible with iDevices that have lightning connector?  Is there a workaround for this (ideally that does not involve huge dongles and lots of spare cable)?  I am fine with analog amplification only (do not need to use C5D's built in DAC), but really only if I can get line-level out to feed the amp.  Is there any recommendation for something similar to C5D but is more compatible with newer generation iDevices?  If I'm already wishing for rainbows and unicorns, I may as well add in that I would like to have some better battery life out of any such replacement amp.

Thanks
Ruahrc


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## WilliamLeonhart

There is a way to get around the Lightning connector. You only need the Apple CCK and the normal usb cable. It's more inconvenient than what you're having right now. 

As for cost effectiveness and the same musical, warmish sound I don't think any expensive DAC/amp can replace the C5D. I like my Mojo, iDsd etc but they come with totally different sound sig IMO


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## NewEve

Ruahrc said:


> At risk of getting too off topic, I am wondering if there is any suggestion about replacing/upgrading my C5D.  Here's why:
> 
> I have C5D and am very happy with it.  I use it with an old iPod Touch using 30-pin LOD and drive Etymotic ER4 (I have both SR and XR models) eabuds.
> 
> ...



Unless you go for an iPhone for the phone merged with music player, I'll go for a dedicated DAP similair than an iPod. Fiio?


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## atistatic

someone has tried jds labs with ad900x?


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## WilliamLeonhart

HEy guys, been a long time since I posted in this thread. Anyone here with the c5d and an iOS 11 iphone (or ipad)? Is there any connecting problem? My old Chord Mojo cannot connect after this iOS update so I’m afraid the C5d would have the same problem. 

Thank you all.


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## Dexter22

WilliamLeonhart said:


> HEy guys, been a long time since I posted in this thread. Anyone here with the c5d and an iOS 11 iphone (or ipad)? Is there any connecting problem? My old Chord Mojo cannot connect after this iOS update so I’m afraid the C5d would have the same problem.
> 
> Thank you all.


it wont connect. iOS has killed the functionality of using a DAC which isn't officially MFI certified. I have the c5d. it used to work, but now not.


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## Fargeg

How audible is the noise floor on the line-out of a modified C5D compared to that of the headphone out? I'm getting a bit of hiss out of very sensitive IEMs from the headphone out and want to try hooking the C5D's DAC up to a cleaner amp, but I'd like to know first whether it would be worth doing so.


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## Yobster69

Fargeg said:


> How audible is the noise floor on the line-out of a modified C5D compared to that of the headphone out? I'm getting a bit of hiss out of very sensitive IEMs from the headphone out and want to try hooking the C5D's DAC up to a cleaner amp, but I'd like to know first whether it would be worth doing so.


Can the C5D be modified to have a line out then? I am not aware of this, it doesn’t have line out as stock!!


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## Dexter22

Yobster69 said:


> Can the C5D be modified to have a line out then? I am not aware of this, it doesn’t have line out as stock!!


It can be done.  There is some program and requires Arduino connection. I never tried it as I really didn't want to brick it trying.


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## Yobster69

Dexter22 said:


> It can be done.  There is some program and requires Arduino connection. I never tried it as I really didn't want to brick it trying.


Thank you. Just looked it up and it is possible, but it permenantly changes the line in to a LO, not what I was hoping which would have been ‘max the volume to change the HO to a LO’. This is what I was excitedly thinking when I see your post. 
Nice to know though.......
I hope somebody can answer your question, as personally I do not hear any hiss with the C5D. Can anybody chime in???


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## SuperNovaGoesPop (Jun 22, 2018)

...can somebody out there help me with the power output of this thing? The specs are listed in VRMS, and I would love to know how it compares to other devices that list in mw. Really looking for something that can go further than my little Fiio Q1 and have looked at the Fiio e18, Xduoo XD05, maybe even something like the ifi xdsd...this could be a real winner for me, I just need to see how the power lines up and compares.

Would love to know how this translates compared to the mw ratings that it looks like everything else goes by(even the objective 2???):

Max Output @ 600Ω 4.146 VRMS
Max Output @ 150Ω 3.580 VRMS
Max Output @ 32Ω 1.182 VRMS

EDIT: read through this thread...so confused at how the mw translations are so low. I mean, if I am after something powerful that will leave me some volume and headroom, would something like the C5D be a bad fit verses say, a Fiio e18 rated 306mw @32 ohms or the Xduoo XD05 rated 500mw @32 ohms?


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## Dexter22

SuperNovaGoesPop said:


> ...can somebody out there help me with the power output of this thing? The specs are listed in VRMS, and I would love to know how it compares to other devices that list in mw. Really looking for something that can go further than my little Fiio Q1 and have looked at the Fiio e18, Xduoo XD05, maybe even something like the ifi xdsd...this could be a real winner for me, I just need to see how the power lines up and compares.
> 
> Would love to know how this translates compared to the mw ratings that it looks like everything else goes by(even the objective 2???):
> 
> ...


my previous amp was fiio E12, c5d is a much refined amp and it drove the akg k702 well without any problem. in every ways it was superior to e12. I really dont know if that numbers really mean anything to popular difficult headphones.


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## SuperNovaGoesPop

Dexter22 said:


> my previous amp was fiio E12, c5d is a much refined amp and it drove the akg k702 well without any problem. in every ways it was superior to e12. I really dont know if that numbers really mean anything to popular difficult headphones.


Yeah...this is what sort of kills me in a way when it comes to measurements and trying to figure out how one amp compares to others; I'm starting to realize that it's not so cut and dry.


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## Dexter22

SuperNovaGoesPop said:


> Yeah...this is what sort of kills me in a way when it comes to measurements and trying to figure out how one amp compares to others; I'm starting to realize that it's not so cut and dry.


I think c5d's right rival will be a leckerton audio porable or oppo ha 2 se or something above, not the fiio e18 or below. I would only be looking at fiio's q5 instead of older models if I need refinement. i sold my c5d months back, as I dont listen much on headphones now. c5d had an unique tonal neutrality which sounds thin, but in comparison fiio sounds coloured. In an amp thats something I personally do not like.


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## SuperNovaGoesPop

Dexter22 said:


> I think c5d's right rival will be a leckerton audio porable or oppo ha 2 se or something above, not the fiio e18 or below. I would only be looking at fiio's q5 instead of older models if I need refinement. i sold my c5d months back, as I dont listen much on headphones now. c5d had an unique tonal neutrality which sounds thin, but in comparison fiio sounds coloured. In an amp thats something I personally do not like.


hey thanks, this is the sort of thing that I wanted somebody to chime in with. I'm going to give this a big consideration since I'm after something more powerful; the only thing that I don't like about it is the digital volume buttons vs having a knob that's labeled.


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## chengsta

I've had a c5 for a long time.  Still going strong even today.  It's powerful as hell compared to my older fiio E11.  Also it's got the best damn bass-boost I've ever heard.  I've never heard any hiss from it with my jh16 or kaiser encores, and the encores are really sensitive.  If you're wearing iems, and want ****ing good bass, you can't go wrong with c5D.  to me, it's neutral sounding, but probably not the highest resolution I've heard, but just as good or better than other fiio amps.


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## Lespectraal

I repaired my JDS Labs C5, posted it to them through DHL. Pretty good service from them. They are quick to act, very well mannered, and considerate of my requests. Within just 2 days they managed to fix my amp and replace the battery. The best part is, the amp was well out of warranty. You just can't go wrong with them.


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## Dexter22

SuperNovaGoesPop said:


> hey thanks, this is the sort of thing that I wanted somebody to chime in with. I'm going to give this a big consideration since I'm after something more powerful; the only thing that I don't like about it is the digital volume buttons vs having a knob that's labeled.


I have the opposite feeling for the same. My fill e12 had channel imbalances at certain volume levels which is typical of analogue controls. This is robust. But you won't know the level at which it is playing.


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## gazzington

I am considering getting a c5d or the ifi black label nano. Any opinions or advice?


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## WilliamLeonhart

gazzington said:


> I am considering getting a c5d or the ifi black label nano. Any opinions or advice?


I used to have the C5d for months, sold it because I’m addicted to sidegrading... I ordered the iFi and returned it. The only weakness of the c5d is that it doesn’t output line level so it cannot be used as a DAC. Which would be a problem only if you intend to use it to feed more “serious” amps. The iFi does support that, and it has some more great functionalities... which I didn’t need. And it doesn’t sound as good as the C5d, to my ears anyway. 
But that’s just me. The c5d is comparable to a ODAC + C421 combo which I used to love. The sound sig really grew on me.


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## darkportent

Phredd said:


> I already tried that. The adapter and the USB connector make for a long stretch.








Hi everybody...!
I know that this is a very old post and there haven't been any messages for quite some time but if somebody could give me some advice it would be greatly appreciated...!

I have been using a C5D amplifier with my first ten iPod touch but the latter has been getting so many problems with its 40 pin connection that OI’m giving up home and have been wondering if I could use my amplifier with my old iPhone 5 which runs on iOS 10.3.3

I have purchased the official camera to lightning cable as well as the USB adaptor and connected my amp to the iPhone as per Jim Sexton’s instructions but it doesn’t seem to work as I’m only getting sound from one of the earphones….

Any recommendations or advice as to what may be wrong…?

I may have to end up getting a dedicated music player but that will probably mean saying goodbye to the C5D amp which i adore…!

Many thanks for your time in advance…!


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## Dexter22

darkportent said:


> Hi everybody...!
> I know that this is a very old post and there haven't been any messages for quite some time but if somebody could give me some advice it would be greatly appreciated...!
> 
> I have been using a C5D amplifier with my first ten iPod touch but the latter has been getting so many problems with its 40 pin connection that OI’m giving up home and have been wondering if I could use my amplifier with my old iPhone 5 which runs on iOS 10.3.3
> ...



From 10.3.3 apple only supports DACs which is apple mfi certified. JDS is not. It will never work again. It's not possible to downgrade ios easily.


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## Dexter22

Dexter22 said:


> From 10.3.3 apple only supports DACs which is apple mfi certified. JDS is not. It will never work again. It's not possible to downgrade ios easily.iphone 5 and c5d makes a great slim stack but unfortunately it's not possible any more.


I


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## darkportent

Dexter22 said:


> From 10.3.3 apple only supports DACs which is apple mfi certified. JDS is not. It will never work again. It's not possible to downgrade ios easily.




Many thanks for the response. That’s great to know.
Any idea if it would work if the iPhone 5 was jail broken?!


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## Dexter22

darkportent said:


> Many thanks for the response. That’s great to know.
> Any idea if it would work if the iPhone 5 was jail broken?!


It's not possible to jailbreak ios 10.3.3 I think. I tried numerous websites. Nothing worked. Almost wasted a week on it before giving up. Try your luck,   if you could jailbreak plz let me know. But 10.3.3 was damn stable on my phone though.


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## darkportent

Will look into it and may have a go if I find the time this weekend
I've found a  couple of useful links through which apparently people were able to jalibreak it successfully. 
Thanks for your response and will update you if any luck



http://www.iphonehacks.com/2017/12/jailbreak-ios-10-3-3-using-h3lix.html


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## Dexter22

darkportent said:


> Will look into it and may have a go if I find the time this weekend
> I've found a  couple of useful links through which apparently people were able to jalibreak it successfully.
> Thanks for your response and will update you if any luck
> 
> ...



I went to more than 15 links did the process they mentioned in the right order. I think its all fake, as I couldnt do it. I gave up after so much trying. Because people search for this, many sites upload fake videos to get the money out of the ads. Try your luck. Plz message me if one of them worked.


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## Lespectraal

Can the old C5 power an ATH-R70X?


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