# Woo's New Flagship WA33



## CarlosUnchained

> *WA33 Fully Balanced Headphone Amplifier​*​ *All Direct-Heated Triode Drive, Class-A ​*​ *Output Transformer Coupled​*
> *Price**:* _$7999_
> 
> 
> ...


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## reeltime

It sounds even better than it looks.


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## andyschaub

Does this have single ended inputs and, if so, do they go through a phase splitter or transformer so that they drive a balanced pair of headphones properly? Thanks.


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## drbobbybones

andyschaub said:


> Does this have single ended inputs and, if so, do they go through a phase splitter or transformer so that they drive a balanced pair of headphones properly? Thanks.


 

 It will accept single ended inputs.  Thanks to @kyle1010 for the photo from CanJam:


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## drbobbybones

And the sound of the WA33 is something to behold.  This is the BEST tube amplifier I have ever heard.  So much power, control, detail, speed, and soundstage.  It was not overly lush sounding--the WA22 they had next door was warmer.  The WA33 is a different beast altogether.  Definitely worth a listen.  
  
 The power supply unit has no exposed umbilical--the stacking creates the connection necessary to get power to the tubes.  Very ingenious.  
  
 Jack Wu said you could add speaker taps as a custom option.  It will push 9 or 10 watts out, which should power some small efficient speakers.  That's probably how I'm gonna order mine.


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## andyschaub

Thanks. I actually spoke with Jack Wu after I posted this and he said that the new WA33 has a phase splitter so that you can convert the single-ended input into a balanced signal, although my own experience has been that transformers work better than phase splitters for this purpose. The very intriguing all vacuum tube phase splitter built into the Woo WES might be an exception to that.


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## geraldshanghai

Gosh, I just bought WA5LE, then there comes WA33.... the road to perfect headphone sound is cash-sucking.


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## dawktah2

I'm thinking of getting a 2qute then WA33 and acquiring a DAVE later on.


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## dawktah2

I figured out how to change settings so my Synology NAS can play through its USB port.  So I will be moving the NAS to what is going to become our wine room. I hope to have our sitting area and EuroCave cellar done beforehand.


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## Sonic77

This week I ordered the Abyss Phi along with the Woo Audio WA33 tube amp, and I was told by my audio dealer to expect my Chord Blu MK II next week. The Abyss will come in a week or two and the WA33 at the end of July or most likely August, I am very excited! This is truly a dream come true for me, I have been waiting and waiting years to finally jump in and get a TOTL headphone set up, so far I have heard nothing but good things about the WA33. I will probably need advice on upgrading the tubes (I'm a total noob with tubes), and which headphone cable for the Abyss to upgrade too, these upgrades will come later as my wallet is in ICU right now.


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## Khragon

Very nice, congrats, which WA33 version did you order?


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## Sonic77

Not The Elite version, this will be my first Tube hp amp so the regular version should be more then enough for me.


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## bflat

Sonic77 said:


> This week I ordered the Abyss Phi along with the Woo Audio WA33 tube amp, and I was told by my audio dealer to expect my Chord Blu MK II next week. The Abyss will come in a week or two and the WA33 at the end of July or most likely August, I am very excited! This is truly a dream come true for me, I have been waiting and waiting years to finally jump in and get a TOTL headphone set up, so far I have heard nothing but good things about the WA33. I will probably need advice on upgrading the tubes (I'm a total noob with tubes), and which headphone cable for the Abyss to upgrade too, these upgrades will come later as my wallet is in ICU right now.



Well you might as well give your wallet the killing blow and put it out of it's misery - tube upgrades......


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## Sonic77

LOL


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## Khragon

Probably better off getting the tube that you tried when you demo the amp.  The KR HP 2A3s seem nice. For NOS tubes, woo pricing is really a rip off and you can find much better deal else where


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## Sonic77

Khragon said:


> Probably better off getting the tube that you tried when you demo the amp.  The KR HP 2A3s seem nice. For NOS tubes, woo pricing is really a rip off and you can find much better deal else where


Duly noted,  thank you.


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## watchdog507 (Jun 18, 2017)

Sonic77 said:


> Duly noted,  thank you.



If you do a search on KR Audio tubes you'll find a spotty record of the tubes durability.  They sound good when they work but they had issues.  I've been using EML tubes and they perform well and they are bullet proof.  If you order from Jac Music and register the tube they will give you up to a 5 year warranty or 2000 Hrs.


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## Sonic77

watchdog507 said:


> If you do a search on KR Audio tubes you'll find a spotty record of the tubes durability.  They sound good when they work but they had issues.  I've been using EML tubes and they perform well and they a bullet proof.  If you order from Jac Music and register the tube they will give you up to a 5 year warranty or 2000 Hrs.


Killer deal, will remember that too, thanks!


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## dawktah2

watchdog507 said:


> If you do a search on KR Audio tubes you'll find a spotty record of the tubes durability.  They sound good when they work but they had issues.  I've been using EML tubes and they perform well and they are bullet proof.  If you order from Jac Music and register the tube they will give you up to a 5 year warranty or 2000 Hrs.



I'm a noob too, I will make note of this as well.  Given the three tube types, driver, amplifier and rectifier tubes which are the ones you'd normally roll? Does Jac Music sell them in sets? Lastly, when I go on the diet since my wallet will be lighter do oils from your hands cause issues? I will probably have to take the tubes out of mine after each use.


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## Khragon

You don't want to take the tubes out after each use, the constant inserting and removing could cause fractures at the base and lead to leaks.


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## dawktah2

Khragon said:


> You don't want to take the tubes out after each use, the constant inserting and removing could cause fractures at the base and lead to leaks.



Thanks!  I may have to see if they will make or have a third party make a cage to cover to protect tubes from my soon to be 5 year old daughter.

On another note does anyone have a EuroCave cellar near any of their components?  I am planning on putting Synology NAS and WA33 in our wine cellar room I am constructing.  I didn't know if I would have an EMI issue that a power conditioner would have trouble with due to proximity.


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## watchdog507

dawktah2 said:


> I'm a noob too, I will make note of this as well.  Given the three tube types, driver, amplifier and rectifier tubes which are the ones you'd normally roll? Does Jac Music sell them in sets? Lastly, when I go on the diet since my wallet will be lighter do oils from your hands cause issues? I will probably have to take the tubes out of mine after each use.



Jac Music Sells matched pairs.  You have to look at the price list to see which tubes come matched and which ones you need to ask for a matched pair.  Many of these are matched at the EML factory if you want EML's. There are many manufacturer options to choose from.  The warranty is exclusive to EML's.  Other tubes have different warranty's and the warranty is pretty clear.  The order of impact from my experience on my WA5-LE most to least is Driver, Power, Rectifier. Get the best drivers and power tubes that you can afford.  Sadly in our hobby, best often equals more money.


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## Sonic77

watchdog507 said:


> Jac Music Sells matched pairs.  You have to look at the price list to see which tubes come matched and which ones you need to ask for a matched pair.  Many of these are matched at the EML factory if you want EML's. There are many manufacturer options to choose from.  The warranty is exclusive to EML's.  Other tubes have different warranty's and the warranty is pretty clear.  The order of impact from my experience on my WA5-LE most to least is Driver, Power, Rectifier. Get the best drivers and power tubes that you can afford.  Sadly in our hobby, best often equals more money.


I thank you for that advice as I had no idea and was going to ask that question.


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## watchdog507

watchdog507 said:


> Jac Music Sells matched pairs.  You have to look at the price list to see which tubes come matched and which ones you need to ask for a matched pair.  Many of these are matched at the EML factory if you want EML's. There are many manufacturer options to choose from.  The warranty is exclusive to EML's.  Other tubes have different warranty's and the warranty is pretty clear.  The order of impact from my experience on my WA5-LE most to least is Driver, Power, Rectifier. Get the best drivers and power tubes that you can afford.  Sadly in our hobby, best often equals more money.



One other point.  Even though, in theory rectifier tubes shouldn't have a dramatic effect some do depending on the amplifier topology.  Some rectifiers also produce more power.  My EML 5U4G's produce enough power to dial back "2 hours"  from 1 O'clock To 11 O'clock for the same volume level.


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## beaux

reeltime said:


> It sounds even better than it looks.


It charges more than it sounds. 15k usd. That's insane.


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## stateofeuphoria

Hello guys. Newbie here. I'm about to order a WA33 which  will be my very first tube headphone amp for my utopia. I was wondering if it's really worth paying double for the elite edition. I asked because I haven't auditioned the Wa33 nor the elite. I am just buying it because of what I have read about the WA33. Thank you for any help.


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## watchdog507

stateofeuphoria said:


> Hello guys. Newbie here. I'm about to order a WA33 which  will be my very first tube headphone amp for my utopia. I was wondering if it's really worth paying double for the elite edition. I asked because I haven't auditioned the Wa33 nor the elite. I am just buying it because of what I have read about the WA33. Thank you for any help.



The upgraded version still doesn't come with upgraded tubes if I'm not missing something? So would it sound better?  Probably, but your real cost is well north of the price.  It's not a problem here to spend another $3000 on great tubes.  Like all things in audio, is the improvement drastic or incremental?  Only your pocket book will know first.  It's too new to have a side by side review done yet.  I'm sure that will happen eventually.


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## stateofeuphoria

watchdog507 said:


> The upgraded version still doesn't come with upgraded tubes if I'm not missing something? So would it sound better?  Probably, but your real cost is well north of the price.  It's not a problem here to spend another $3000 on great tubes.  Like all things in audio, is the improvement drastic or incremental?  Only your pocket book will know first.  It's too new to have a side by side review done yet.  I'm sure that will happen eventually.


No it does not comes with upgraded tubes according to Jack


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## stateofeuphoria

My only trouble is because of what they offer now a Pre Order Sale Special Pricing. I only have few days left to decide from a Regular WA33 or a Elite Edition which double the cost of a WA33.


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## watchdog507

stateofeuphoria said:


> My only trouble is because of what they offer now a Pre Order Sale Special Pricing. I only have few days left to decide from a Regular WA33 or a Elite Edition which double the cost of a WA33.



Like all things in audio.  At this level, will double the cost give you sound that is twice as good?  I don't believe so.  I'm sure that the WA33 basic will still sound spectacular with a good complement of tubes. If I didn't have a new WA5-LE I would be considering the Basic WA33.


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## Sonic77

stateofeuphoria said:


> My only trouble is because of what they offer now a Pre Order Sale Special Pricing. I only have few days left to decide from a Regular WA33 or a Elite Edition which double the cost of a WA33.


Check out Beolab, he looks like he has the Elite version of the WA33. and people have left there impressions of the regular version with upgraded tubes in this thread, now do you want me to make you a sandwich too?

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/page-372


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## watchdog507

Sonic77 said:


> Check out Beolab, he looks like he has the Elite version of the WA33. and people have left there impressions of the regular version with upgraded tubes in this thread, now do you want me to make you a sandwich too?
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/the-jps-labs-abyss-ab-1266-impressions-thread.666765/page-372



The little shiny plaque on top marks it as an Elite version.


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## Sonic77

I was kidding about the sandwich


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## stateofeuphoria

Sonic77 said:


> I was kidding about the sandwich


As long it has the elite version spread on the sandwich please lol. It's giving me a headache plus you have to wait 3 months


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## dawktah2

When you select a tube upgrade, do you still get the standard ones?


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## stateofeuphoria

Call Jack of Woo Audio. Are you getting the Elite?


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## dawktah2 (Jun 24, 2017)

I'm in the group that likes to savor the flavor a while before making improvements. My 52nd birthday was Wednesday so I'm also losing ability to hear subtle things like wire etc. I'd hate to think components upgrade is more significant than tubes.


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## dawktah2

On a different note, it seems I may need to bring up a dedicated circuit from breaker panel and a power conditioner to keep noise from EuroCave wine refrigerator from affecting WA33.


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## Thaudiophile

Wa33 vs Eddie current studio?


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## abvolt

Looks like an awesome amp but sure is pricey I'd love to own one, for those getting the Elite "WoW" is all I'll say, if you've got the coin "Oh Yeah" get one, I'm a BIG fan of Woo Audio..enjoy


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## Thaudiophile

abvolt said:


> Looks like an awesome amp but sure is pricey I'd love to own one, for those getting the Elite "WoW" is all I'll say, if you've got the coin "Oh Yeah" get one, I'm a BIG fan of Woo Audio..enjoy


Have you listened to Eddie current Studio?


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## dawktah2 (Jun 29, 2017)

Maybe someone with more experience can chime in but wouldn't the "tubes" play the most important role here in what difference there would be excluding aesthetics?

There is no image on their website but Eddie Current appears to have three inputs 3 pin XLR, 4 pin XLR and RCA???


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## JohanGao

Why this thread are so quiet when the amp itself is quiet horrendous


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## Sonic77

Horrendous means bad :/


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## dawktah2 (Jul 6, 2017)

Let me see if I can get this back on topic are the tubes Sophia Electric?

Also, why doesn't unit come with a power cord?


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## Sonic77

dawktah2 said:


> Let me see if I can get this back on topic are the tubes Sophia Electric?
> 
> Also, why doesn't unit come with a power cord?


 l went to their website and those tubes look nice.


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## drbobbybones

dawktah2 said:


> Let me see if I can get this back on topic are the tubes Sophia Electric?
> 
> Also, why doesn't unit come with a power cord?



Most people upgrade the power cord at this level of amplifier.  I am currently using the PS Audio AC12 with my WA22, which will soon go over to my WA33.  Not even close as far as sound quality--much more impact and slam out of the big cable compared to stock.

BTW, the WA33 pricing just increased from the previous preorder pricing.  Thank goodness I got in just before the price jump!


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## dawktah2 (Jul 8, 2017)

drbobbybones said:


> Most people upgrade the power cord at this level of amplifier.  I am currently using the PS Audio AC12 with my WA22, which will soon go over to my WA33.  Not even close as far as sound quality--much more impact and slam out of the big cable compared to stock.



In that case since I am still modifying room should I run 12/3 or 10 gauge wire? At 150 watts and 120v AC that is 2.5 amps. 14/2 gauge is rated for 15 amps. Only other devices running on this dedicated circuit will be NAS and DAC(s).


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## drbobbybones

dawktah2 said:


> In that case since I am still modifying room should I run 12/3 or 10 gauge wire? At 150 watts and 120v AC that is 2.5 amps. 14/2 gauge is rated for 15 amps. Only other devices running on this dedicated circuit will be NAS and DAC(s).



I think for power, usually the bigger the better.  I find it matters more with amplifiers than anything else.


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## dawktah2 (Jul 20, 2017)

Do you know the gauge of the PS Audio cord? 

Edit: I searched for it, 8 gauge


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## dawktah2

Any time line on when a unit will be available for audition at a dealer?


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## dawktah2 (Jul 27, 2017)

I contacted a dealer in San Francisco where I'll be this weekend and they said the WA33 is burning in for 100 hours, so it wouldn't be available for audition.  What exactly is happening during this burn in process?  Why is it 100 hours vs 50 vs 150? I'm just skeptical on things without moving parts.


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## bfreedma

dawktah2 said:


> I contacted a dealer in San Francisco where I'll be this weekend and they said the WA33 is burning in for 100 hours, so it wouldn't be available for audition.  What exactly is happening during this burn in process?  Why is it 100 hours vs 50 vs 150? I'm just skeptical on things without moving parts.



What happens during the burn in process?  Your window to return the product passes by.....


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## Sonic77

bfreedma said:


> What happens during the burn in process?  Your window to return the product passes by.....


LOL, so true.


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## Sonic77 (Aug 14, 2017)

Just received my WA33, just set it up, but haven't listened yet 
Ok just did a quick listen. I don't know which piece of equipment gets the credit, maybe they all contributed to the sound. I am using a Dave dac, Woo Audio 33 tube amp and, Abyss headphones to do my listening. First thing I would say is thank you to Woo Audio for including a Woo Audio pen with the tube amp  The things that I noticed right away were the inner detail, the clarity over all, especially the mids, the voices were crystal clear, the bass was excellent, of course as were the highs, it was all good. Now this being my first tube amp I have a question? Will the sound change as these tubes break in? The amp sound great right now.


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## dawktah2

Anyone planning on listening to vinyl? Which turntable are you planning on and will it have line level or will you be getting a phono amp?


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## Khragon

Sonic77 said:


> Just received my WA33, just set it up, but haven't listened yet
> Ok just did a quick listen. I don't know which piece of equipment gets the credit, maybe they all contributed to the sound. I am using a Dave dac, Woo Audio 33 tube amp and, Abyss headphones to do my listening. First thing I would say is thank you to Woo Audio for including a Woo Audio pen with the tube amp  The things that I noticed right away were the inner detail, the clarity over all, especially the mids, the voices were crystal clear, the bass was excellent, of course as were the highs, it was all good. Now this being my first tube amp I have a question? Will the sound change as these tubes break in? The amp sound great right now.



Pics or it didn't happen


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## Sonic77




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## Khragon (Aug 16, 2017)

Very nice! way to jump into the deep end for your first tube amp 
Sound should change when the tubes are broken in.


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## ahmadfaizadnan

Sonic77 said:


>



amazing piece there


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## dawktah2

Sonic77 said:


>



I need to get moving on the wine/listening room/loft!   Congrats! I need to decide whether it's going to be more wine or more listening...


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## geraldshanghai

what a life, listening to music via WA33 in a wine loft.


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## geraldshanghai

I just received my wa33 and just set it up yesterday, first impression - it's a solid unit. but the stock 2a3 tube isn't good for my ears.  I need to find better tube to replace them.


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## HiFiGuy528 (Aug 18, 2017)

this combo here is top notch IMHO. Sony HAP-Z1ES music server, @hifiman-us Susvara headphone, all wired with Kimber Kables. WA33 rocking all stock tubes. I like to enjoy the amp with stock tubes for 4-6 months, sometimes a year before rolling the tubes.

When it comes to break-in, we recommend to just use the system as normal. The burn-in happens with the gear, your ears, and your brain. No reason to run the system and not enjoy.


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## chaojiliqilin

Nice to see the new flagship of Woo Audio. I am a little bit confused about the production positioning of WA33 and 234 mono. Does it mean that wa33 elite is better than 234mono?


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## abvolt

Wow that sure does look sweet..enjoy


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## andyschaub

chaojiliqilin said:


> Nice to see the new flagship of Woo Audio. I am a little bit confused about the production positioning of WA33 and 234 mono. Does it mean that wa33 elite is better than 234mono?



The WA33 and 234 Mono have very different designs, the WA33 is a stereo design, fully-balanced design using the 2A3 tubes avilablr as the least powerful but most linear of the three tubes on the 234. The 234 is a single-ended, moniblock design that gives three different tubes and multiple inpedance choices to fine-tune it to properly drive almost any non-electrostatic headphone in production. The WA33 lets you driv power-hungry headphones, like the Abyss, from a fully-balanced source. Having owned both a WA22 and WA5-LE V2 both with upgraded tubes, including Western Electric 300B's in the latter, I'd guess the 234 smokes the WA33 under the right circumstances.

The WA33 is more like the vacuum tube versioj of a Cavalli Liquid Gold.

Then, of course, there are electrostatics, plus hybrid designs like the Red Wine Audio Corvina, the best headphone amp I've heard particularly when paired with the Moon Audio Black Dragon cable and HiFiMan HE-1000's. The Woo GES (not the WES) remains a very simple but elegant design that uses transformers to turn a single-ended input into a balanced signal run through matched quads of driver Nd power tubes for the Stan SR-507's and L700's, again in the electrostatic realm.

I hope that helps.

There seems to be a myth perpetuated by one of the editors of Headphone Guru that bakanved necessarily sounds better than single-ended because you double the signal strength and, presumably, louder sound, where louder equates with better. This represents a complete misunderstanding of electronics and psychoacoustics. The balanced topology uses two out of phase signals that combine at the end to cancel noise in the system chain out and is really intended for recording studio applications.

The purer, all Class A signal of the single-ended amps (234) distorts the analog waveform less and remains truer to the source. What you prefer is up to you. As far as loudness goes, if you like louder sound, turn the volume up. Thar's what the knob is for.


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## chaojiliqilin

andyschaub said:


> The WA33 and 234 Mono have very different designs, the WA33 is a stereo design, fully-balanced design using the 2A3 tubes avilablr as the least powerful but most linear of the three tubes on the 234. The 234 is a single-ended, moniblock design that gives three different tubes and multiple inpedance choices to fine-tune it to properly drive almost any non-electrostatic headphone in production. The WA33 lets you driv power-hungry headphones, like the Abyss, from a fully-balanced source. Having owned both a WA22 and WA5-LE V2 both with upgraded tubes, including Western Electric 300B's in the latter, I'd guess the 234 smokes the WA33 under the right circumstances.
> 
> The WA33 is more like the vacuum tube versioj of a Cavalli Liquid Gold.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your informative reply. As the abyss user, though I do not have enough money to by either mono 234 and wa33 elite, I am curious which one will be more suitable for Abyss. Do you think mono 234 will outperform?


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## matthewhypolite

Currently considering the W33 as well. Debating whether to get upgraded tunes from go or if to do as mike suggests and run them stock for a while.

I'll be replacing my Lau with the W33.


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## andyschaub (Sep 7, 2017)

chaojiliqilin said:


> Thank you for your informative reply. As the abyss user, though I do not have enough money to by either mono 234 and wa33 elite, I am curious which one will be more suitable for Abyss. Do you think mono 234 will outperform?



It depends on your source components, kind of. I used an Ayre QB-9 DSD to supply both a Cavalli Liquid Gold and a Woo WA5-LE V2 via Stralth Sakra interconnecteds. The Ayre has both balanced and single-ended outputs. The Cavalli is solid state and fully balanced while the Woo uses tubes and is single-ended (and is nearly a dual monoblock design). I personally preferred the Woo, but it had to have the right tubes, and I'm sure that the Cavalli would measure better to the extent that I care about that.

In any case, I sold the Abyss to buy a Tri TRV-CD5SE tube CD player/USB DAC and repurposed the QB-9 DSD, then liquidated the Liquid Gold and got an Ayre AX-7e to drive some near-field monitors. I have several pairs of headphones but my favorites use kind of an obscure two-driver design with a Heil Air Motion Transformer for the midrange and treble (plus Drew Baird's Black Dragin cables). I'm sorry, but I don't remember what they're called; however I think Moon Audio has some in stock.


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## andyschaub

matthewhypolite said:


> Currently considering the W33 as well. Debating whether to get upgraded tunes from go or if to do as mike suggests and run them stock for a while.
> 
> I'll be replacing my Lau with the W33.



Good choice!


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## Sonic77

The Abyss Phi and the WA33 pair well together, can't imagine how you could get a cleaner sound. I'm using stock tubes for now, in my opinion this amp sounds more like a solid state amp then a tube amp in that it is so clean sounding, the back ground is black as night.


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## matthewhypolite

Sonic77 said:


> The Abyss Phi and the WA33 pair well together, can't imagine how you could get a cleaner sound. I'm using stock tubes for now, in my opinion this amp sounds more like a solid state amp then a tube amp in that it is so clean sounding, the back ground is black as night.



What amp did you upgrade from?


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## andyschaub

Sonic77 said:


> The Abyss Phi and the WA33 pair well together, can't imagine how you could get a cleaner sound. I'm using stock tubes for now, in my opinion this amp sounds more like a solid state amp then a tube amp in that it is so clean sounding, the back ground is black as night.



Last night, I was using the WA5-LE V2 with Western Electric 300B's, Phillips NOS driver tubes, and Sophia Princess rectifier tubes (which are beautiful). The headphones were the oObravo HAMT-1's. I have diffculty believing anything could sound much better, but I have not personally heard the WA33.


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## dawktah2 (Sep 20, 2017)

I don't want to take this thread too far off topic but I'm painting, and will have physical wine/listening room ready for cellar next month and ready for equipment in the month thereafter. Have to resist temptation to bail and hire out to complete...


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## Sonic77

matthewhypolite said:


> What amp did you upgrade from?


Not an amp, but I was using the Chord Dave, until I received the WA33, I've heard lots of tube amps though, the WA33 is very clean sounding, I love it!


dawktah2 said:


> I don't want to take this thread too far off topic but I'm painting, and will have physical wine/listening room ready for cellar next month and ready for equipment in the month thereafter. Have to resist temptation to bail and hire out to complete...


I just got a new roof put on my house, then my house was painted, and now I'm getting a new fence put up around my house, of course I don't have the time or skills to do this type of work, so I contract it out.


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## dawktah2

I'm actually done with the painting, high ceilings are not my forte!  So contracting that out. The ceiling over the loft is done. I have contacted Nice Racks to get my 16U process going. I still need to decide on a DAC for the WA33. 

Any more impressions from owners?  Does it sound tubey or are you forced to tube roll? I'm still hoping for the sound I remember from my dads H.H. Scott gear from my childhood.  It sounded as if a real piano was in the room.  Nothing solid state I have heard has ever sounded like that.


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## geraldshanghai

I have come to settle my WA33 with following tubes:

4* RCA NOS 2a3 tubes, bought from wooaudio (very expensive!)
1* KR AUDIO 274B (bought from www.thecableco.com)
4* EH Gold Pin 6C45 (bought from wooaudio too)

I like this combo of the tubes.  They work together to deliver a sound what is very "powerful" but at same time with very clear imaging.

I am still in the run-in period.


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## dawktah2

Given the very unique niche of this piece is there any downside to starting this close if not at the top?  I only tube amp I have is the WA8.


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## JohanGao

Anyone can report the actual dimension of WA33 unit? I still waiting mine to come maybe the end of this month or early november, But still dizzy setting up empty space for it... 
Mine will come with upgrade tube of
4 6c45
4 2A3 NOS RCA tube
1 Takatsuki 274B tube
All bought from Woo..


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## Audio-Phile

Also would love to see more impressions, can't afford right now but want to know if it's worth aiming for long term.


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## HiFiGuy528

Audio-Phile said:


> Also would love to see more impressions, can't afford right now but want to know if it's worth aiming for long term.



A full review on the Elite Edition from TONEAudio is in the books. Stay subscribed....

http://www.tonepublications.com/magazine/


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## JohanGao

the amp have been released and delivered to many customer, but still hard to find some review nor in deep impression yet..


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## andyschaub

drbobbybones said:


> And the sound of the WA33 is something to behold.  This is the BEST tube amplifier I have ever heard.  So much power, control, detail, speed, and soundstage.  It was not overly lush sounding--the WA22 they had next door was warmer.  The WA33 is a different beast altogether.  Definitely worth a listen.
> 
> The power supply unit has no exposed umbilical--the stacking creates the connection necessary to get power to the tubes.  Very ingenious.
> 
> Jack Wu said you could add speaker taps as a custom option.  It will push 9 or 10 watts out, which should power some small efficient speakers.  That's probably how I'm gonna order mine.


That's great to know. I bet it would sound great with a pair of bi-wired Audio Note AN-J's. It's very hard to find a 2A3-based amp of any kind that puts out more than about 5 watts / channel, and you need a good 7-8 or a bit more for the AN-J's, but a good 2A3 amp and a pair of AN-J's can make a heavenly combination, I  know from experience.


----------



## dawktah2

drbobbybones said:


> And the sound of the WA33 is something to behold.  This is the BEST tube amplifier I have ever heard.  So much power, control, detail, speed, and soundstage.  It was not overly lush sounding--the WA22 they had next door was warmer.  The WA33 is a different beast altogether.  Definitely worth a listen.
> 
> The power supply unit has no exposed umbilical--the stacking creates the connection necessary to get power to the tubes.  Very ingenious.
> 
> Jack Wu said you could add speaker taps as a custom option.  It will push 9 or 10 watts out, which should power some small efficient speakers.  That's probably how I'm gonna order mine.



After the repost you say the WA-22 is warmer? The WA33 does sound warm and tubey?


----------



## JohanGao

I have got mine yesterday... All I said it is really solid, and the sound is just amazing.. it makes my sony z1r sound like it is a difference headphone comparing when i use it with WA6SE before. But the one bothering me is, the amp is not dead silence, at least mine. When i hooked up my Z1R i and stop down the volume lever till zero, i can hear a noise, maybe not a noise but something like the sound of the working valve.. It is like the sound coming from the inside of the valve..


----------



## watchdog507

JohanGao said:


> I have got mine yesterday... All I said it is really solid, and the sound is just amazing.. it makes my sony z1r sound like it is a difference headphone comparing when i use it with WA6SE before. But the one bothering me is, the amp is not dead silence, at least mine. When i hooked up my Z1R i and stop down the volume lever till zero, i can hear a noise, maybe not a noise but something like the sound of the working valve.. It is like the sound coming from the inside of the valve..



First, reach out to Woo, they are pretty good at replying to emails and ask about the noise floor.  If they say it shouldn't be there, based on my experience with a Woo WA6 and a WA5-LE, let the amp idle for a while.  Sometimes capacitors need to charge and the whole system to become stable.  If that doesn't work, start with the driver tubes and replace them. See if that works. Then move to the power tubes if that doesn't help.  I had bad driver tubes in my WA6 and it drove me nuts because they tested fine but induced hum into the system.  Finally, I retested them with a different tester and they showed an issue.


----------



## dawktah2

watchdog507 said:


> First, reach out to Woo, they are pretty good at replying to emails and ask about the noise floor.  If they say it shouldn't be there, based on my experience with a Woo WA6 and a WA5-LE, let the amp idle for a while.  Sometimes capacitors need to charge and the whole system to become stable.  If that doesn't work, start with the driver tubes and replace them. See if that works. Then move to the power tubes if that doesn't help.  I had bad driver tubes in my WA6 and it drove me nuts because they tested fine but induced hum into the system.  Finally, I retested them with a different tester and they showed an issue.



Which tester did you finally use?


----------



## watchdog507

dawktah2 said:


> Which tester did you finally use?



I use a B&K 747B tester.  I like this one because it's solid state and in theory, holds calibration longer.  The only thing that I don't like is that it can't test 300B's.  Other than that it is a solid tester.


----------



## JohanGao

I have got mine yesterday... All I said it is really solid, and the sound is just amazing.. it makes my sony z1r sound like it is a difference headphone comparing when i use it with WA6SE before. But the one bothering me is, the amp is not dead silence, at least mine. When i hooked up my Z1R i and stop down the volume lever till zero, i can hear a noise, maybe not a noise but something like the sound of the working valve.. It is like the sound coming from the inside of the valve.. 


watchdog507 said:


> First, reach out to Woo, they are pretty good at replying to emails and ask about the noise floor.  If they say it shouldn't be there, based on my experience with a Woo WA6 and a WA5-LE, let the amp idle for a while.  Sometimes capacitors need to charge and the whole system to become stable.  If that doesn't work, start with the driver tubes and replace them. See if that works. Then move to the power tubes if that doesn't help.  I had bad driver tubes in my WA6 and it drove me nuts because they tested fine but induced hum into the system.  Finally, I retested them with a different tester and they showed an issue.



Yesterday, I use my HE1000 and the amp is dead silence...


----------



## andyschaub

JohanGao said:


> I have got mine yesterday... All I said it is really solid, and the sound is just amazing.. it makes my sony z1r sound like it is a difference headphone comparing when i use it with WA6SE before. But the one bothering me is, the amp is not dead silence, at least mine. When i hooked up my Z1R i and stop down the volume lever till zero, i can hear a noise, maybe not a noise but something like the sound of the working valve.. It is like the sound coming from the inside of the valve..
> 
> 
> Yesterday, I use my HE1000 and the amp is dead silence...



The Sony's are far more efficient (sensitive) than the HE-1000's, so it's not surprising you would hear tube rush through them that you don't hear from the HE-1000's. There really is no low-power substitute for the 2A3's used in the WA33, but there might be a low-output setting beyond the volume control that helps or impedance-matching settings like the WA5-LE has that could minimize the tube rush that you hear through the Sony's.


----------



## JohanGao

andyschaub said:


> The Sony's are far more efficient (sensitive) than the HE-1000's, so it's not surprising you would hear tube rush through them that you don't hear from the HE-1000's. There really is no low-power substitute for the 2A3's used in the WA33, but there might be a low-output setting beyond the volume control that helps or impedance-matching settings like the WA5-LE has that could minimize the tube rush that you hear through the Sony's.


When, I hook my Sony Z1R all the knob has switch into low, impedance switch to low, level switch to low, still hear the tube rush sound.
With HE1000 I found impedance switch to low and Level switch to high is more suit me... but all is dead silence with HE1000.


----------



## andyschaub

JohanGao said:


> When, I hook my Sony Z1R all the knob has switch into low, impedance switch to low, level switch to low, still hear the tube rush sound.
> With HE1000 I found impedance switch to low and Level switch to high is more suit me... but all is dead silence with HE1000.



The Sony's are really designed to be used with portable electronics not high-current balanced amps. In a similar sense, you'll never get a pair of Wilson Sophia's to sound good with a 7wpc Audio Note Meishu integrated amplifier. They just don't match. The WA6-SE has a much lower output so it's not surprising that it's a better match for the Sony's, depending of which tubes you use.


----------



## JohanGao

andyschaub said:


> The Sony's are really designed to be used with portable electronics not high-current balanced amps. In a similar sense, you'll never get a pair of Wilson Sophia's to sound good with a 7wpc Audio Note Meishu integrated amplifier. They just don't match. The WA6-SE has a much lower output so it's not surprising that it's a better match for the Sony's, depending of which tubes you use.



Yes, With WA6SE there is no noise appear on sony, but with WA33 the sonic is really good, and again when the music play the noise is no more noticeable


----------



## andyschaub

JohanGao said:


> Yes, With WA6SE there is no noise appear on sony, but with WA33 the sonic is really good, and again when the music play the noise is no more noticeable



Well, 2A3's are wonderful sounding tubes; but particularly in a balanced or "push-pull" configuration, you're jumping from about 500mW (0.5wpc) with the WA6-SE to probably 10wpc with the WA33? It's not surprising that music masks the tube rush--but there is no better or worse amp in an absolute sense. It's all a matter of system matching. So use the Sony's with the WA6-SE and the HE-1000's with the WA33 ... that's really all there is to it.


----------



## JohanGao

andyschaub said:


> Well, 2A3's are wonderful sounding tubes; but particularly in a balanced or "push-pull" configuration, you're jumping from about 500mW (0.5wpc) with the WA6-SE to probably 10wpc with the WA33? It's not surprising that music masks the tube rush--but there is no better or worse amp in an absolute sense. It's all a matter of system matching. So use the Sony's with the WA6-SE and the HE-1000's with the WA33 ... that's really all there is to it.


I have sold the WA6SE lol....


----------



## dawktah2

JohanGao said:


> I have sold the WA6SE lol....



Do you still have your 2Qute?  If so have you used it with the WA33 yet?  I am leaning towards what could be the 3Qute if/when its released.


----------



## mahesvara

Anyone has ever compared the WA33 to the WA234 mono? The WA33 Elite is roughly the same price, so I do wonder.


----------



## JohanGao

dawktah2 said:


> Do you still have your 2Qute?  If so have you used it with the WA33 yet?  I am leaning towards what could be the 3Qute if/when its released.


no more, i have sold all my old stuff to funding WA33...


----------



## dawktah2

JohanGao said:


> no more, i have sold all my old stuff to funding WA33...



Ok, I was just looking to see how the 3v output affected the WA33.


----------



## dawktah2

My little project continues.  My plan to place the WA33 in a nice-rack has stalled since the WA33 is 17-1/2" wide but the shelf Mid-Atlantic only supports equipment 17-3/8" I can't believe it!  My options are to place the WA33 on the bottom so I have to figure out how much heat is generated and whether any DAC or my Synology NAS placed above it will be affected. I can place it on top of the rack but will need to fabricated a cage to protect the investment from someone who's already staked claim, see her horse in corner of image...

I'm thinking initially I'll go with the Sonica DAC since I have a Sonica speaker already and may add one in the loft. Then get the 2Qute 2 or 3Qute whatever they are going to call it when it comes out.

Can anyone tell me how much heat a tube amp of its type produces and whether its a good idea to place something above it?
If I use a 1U cooling fan will drawing air across the tubes create an issue?
This unit seems to fall within a very small niche, I may try to head up to AXPONA in Chicago.  Anyone going?


----------



## watchdog507

"

"Can anyone tell me how much heat a tube amp of its type produces and whether its a good idea to place something above it?"
I have my WA5-LE in mid rack and it has enough clearance to circulate air.  It does run hot but it doesn't affect my Transport or Dac's.


----------



## Rickruss

Has anyone seen a review of the WA33?  The silence has been deafening...


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Rickruss said:


> Has anyone seen a review of the WA33?  The silence has been deafening...



Yeah. I didn't see a lot of reviews on this amp. I've heard two setups with this amp during canjam but only for a short time.


----------



## dawktah2

Well, two components operating temperature maximums are listed as 95 degrees F and another 104 degrees F.  So I'd rather not tempt fate.


----------



## headr

Rickruss said:


> Has anyone seen a review of the WA33?  The silence has been deafening...



Unfortunately $8000 headphone amplifiers tend not to generate a lot of reviews. It's the same with things like the Fostex HP-V8 and Audio Technica HA5050H.


----------



## watchdog507

headr said:


> Unfortunately $8000 headphone amplifiers tend not to generate a lot of reviews. It's the same with things like the Fostex HP-V8 and Audio Technica HA5050H.



Better yet if you go for the Elite Edition you're on the hook for $14,999 so even fewer people will be exposed to it.  But at $14,999 I would consider the WA234.  It has to be the true statement/performance piece.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

headr said:


> Unfortunately $8000 headphone amplifiers tend not to generate a lot of reviews. It's the same with things like the Fostex HP-V8 and Audio Technica HA5050H.



Well I guess that's true. Probably need to wait a little while before the reviews up on the web.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Hey Guys,

I've noticed on some tubes there are 2 external wires with caps attached to the tubes, can anyone tell me what are those?
They can be seen in this video:


----------



## watchdog507

matthewhypolite said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I've noticed on some tubes there are 2 external wires with caps attached to the tubes, can anyone tell me what are those?
> They can be seen in this video:




United 596 Rectifiers.  My favourite rectifiers.  I have several pairs and I swear by them.  They are built like tanks and will last a lifetime.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Ouu, pretttyyy.

So it's just a Type of rectifier?


----------



## watchdog507 (Nov 16, 2017)

matthewhypolite said:


> Ouu, pretttyyy.
> 
> So it's just a Type of rectifier?



Yes you can use them in place of 5U4G in Woo Amps possibly 274B depending on the application.  The adapters are Woo. They're expensive but built well and look great.

This will give you detailed information:

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_596.html


----------



## andyschaub

JohanGao said:


> I have sold the WA6SE lol....



OK, I'll never sell mine even though I own other amps by Woo (and others) that are equal or better in other ways. The WA6-LE is classic, and a bargain to say the least.


----------



## andyschaub

watchdog507 said:


> Yes you can use them in place of 5U4G in Woo Amps possibly 274B depending on the application.  The adapters are Woo. They're expensive but built well and look great.
> 
> This will give you detailed information:
> 
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_596.html



For the most part, the tubes the Woo offers for their amps are solid choices; but don't assume that more expensive always means better. It's all about system, and vacuum tube, matching; also, Woo--somewhat uniquely--makes their own tube sockets and tube adapters from Teflon, an industry standard that even makers of extremely high-end audio products don't necessarily provide.


----------



## drbobbybones (Nov 20, 2017)

My WA33 impressions, after owning it for two months or so:

To start, no one needs one of these.  It is a superfluous item to some degree, and it probably measures worse than the Chord DAVE that I feed it with.  Doesn’t matter.  This is easily the BEST sounding amplifier I have ever heard.  I have been auditioning high end amplifiers over the last year or so and this is, to my ears, the pinnacle of amplifier design and sound quality.  If you are a solid state purist, or believe that tubes “muddy” what the sound engineer intended, I urge you to put your preconceptions aside and take a listen to this amplifier.  There is very little “tubeyness” to the sound, especially compared to most tube amplfiers you have probably heard or even the Woo house sound.


This is one beast of an amplifier, in every possible way.  It measures 17.5” width x 10.25” length x 7.25” height without tubes, and 14” height with tubes.  It is incredibly heavy, at about 50lbs, and every thing about it just feels _solid_.  The tactile feel of the knobs is impressive, with each turn of the selector knobs providing a pleasing _thunk _with each use.  The volume knob is non-stepped, which is what I personally prefer, and it provides satisfying resistance to make sure it is not inadvertently turned.  The amplifier will put about 10 watts of power out, which will power any headphone out there.  I also use it as a preamplifier for my speaker setup (KEF LS50, NuForce STA200), and it works great for that setup as well.  You can order it with direct speaker outputs for an additional $1500, but I didn’t want to limit my speaker choices to only very high efficiency ones.


It uses four 2A3 power tubes, four 6C45 driver tubes, and 1 5U4G rectifier tube.  My current preferred setup is with vintage RCA JAN-2A3 black plates (bought from eBay), Electro-Harmonix Gold Pin 6C45 tubes (bought from Woo), and a USAF 596 rectifier tube (eBay) with a Woo Audio custom 596à5U4G adapter.  The stock tubes that come with the amplifier are just fine as well, but the upgraded tubes create a bigger sense of space and tighter imaging.


And the sound… it’s GLORIOUS.  The biggest thing I notice with my Focal Utopias is a much bigger soundstage than with the WA22 or my Chord DAVE.  The term I use is holographic, even though that may be a bit trite.  It shines with all genres, but it really shines with rock.  The biggest issue that I had with the DAVE as a headphone amplifier is that it can make rock sound a touch dry.  The WA33 is the perfect cure for this, and it allows for guitars to crunch appropriately and singers to seem like they’re actually singing in front of you, not in a studio.  With other genres like jazz and acoustic, it makes you feel like you’re sitting in the best seat in an amphitheater, watching the musicians play in real life.  EDM takes on new life as well—I have never heard Daft Punk’s Random Access Memories sound so tight and nuanced.  “Lose Yourself To Dance” becomes a wide spectrum of sound coming at you from all directions with each instrument and note being positioned perfectly in its own space.


Compared to the WA22, the WA33 has a larger soundstage and better detail retrieval.  The WA22 is warmer though, so I actually prefer the HD800 on the WA22 than on the WA33.  My Utopias, HE1000 V2’s, LCD-3F’s, and my MDR-Z1R’s sound better on the WA33 though.  The ability to change output impedance and level is critical to getting the sound right on these very different headphones.


It all comes down to value.   To reiterate: no one needs one of these.  This is a luxury item that gives unparalleled audio enjoyment but also costs as much as a used car.   I can’t tell you if the benefit in sound is worth it for you, but it is definitely worth it for me.  Thanks for reading and happy listening!


----------



## Sonic77

Excellent review drbobbybones! I have been listening to my WA33 with a Mirus Pro dac being fed by an ultrarendu on my server, the headphones used were the Abyss Phi. I haven't got around to it yet, but I want to hook it up to my Blu Dave using a apple mac mini using _Audirvana_ Plus 3, which I have been enjoying with my speakers. I agree the WA33 is a very clean sounding tube amp, when the music fades out, I can hear people in some songs, saying things at the very end that I just never heard before, really revealing, little details like that make owning high end stuff special.


----------



## dawktah2

I really enjoyed reading your review. On the one hand it heightens my sense of anticipation for acquiring my own.  At the same time I feel like I'm buying a Ferrari after just buying my first car.  I'd have to do some research to see if the ROI is high enough on some of the other Woo amps to buy, sell and upgrade. I cannot fathom what an improvement to the WA33 could possibly be so no worries about it being the penultimate of my purchases! I guess this could allow focus on cans and DACs...


----------



## drbobbybones

dawktah2 said:


> I really enjoyed reading your review. On the one hand it heightens my sense of anticipation for acquiring my own.  At the same time I feel like I'm buying a Ferrari after just buying my first car.  I'd have to do some research to see if the ROI is high enough on some of the other Woo amps to buy, sell and upgrade. I cannot fathom what an improvement to the WA33 could possibly be so no worries about it being the penultimate of my purchases! I guess this could allow focus on cans and DACs...



I'm not sure I would include ROI on any high end audio purchase.  The ROI on almost any high end purchase will be poor.  That said, the amount of sonic bliss you get from such purchases cannot be overestimated.  I am hearing my music collection all over again with what seems like new ears.  And I love it!


----------



## Sonic77

Return on investment in terms of enjoyment is up to the purchaser, what you can resale it for will be a lot less then what you paid for it. The best policy is to try it for yourself and you be the judge as everyone has different subjective tastes. I would be looking at getting the best source I could afford, before getting an amp, but that's just my opinion.


dawktah2 said:


> I really enjoyed reading your review. On the one hand it heightens my sense of anticipation for acquiring my own.  At the same time I feel like I'm buying a Ferrari after just buying my first car.  I'd have to do some research to see if the ROI is high enough on some of the other Woo amps to buy, sell and upgrade. I cannot fathom what an improvement to the WA33 could possibly be so no worries about it being the penultimate of my purchases! I guess this could allow focus on cans and DACs...


----------



## dawktah2 (Nov 26, 2017)

Sonic77 said:


> Return on investment in terms of enjoyment is up to the purchaser, what you can resale it for will be a lot less then what you paid for it. The best policy is to try it for yourself and you be the judge as everyone has different subjective tastes. I would be looking at getting the best source I could afford, before getting an amp, but that's just my opinion.



I'm planning on the 2Qute2 or 3Qute whichever it is called. At least this way a DAVE would be an improvement to the WA33 pairing.


----------



## Sonic77

dawktah2 said:


> I'm planning on the 2Qute2 or 3Qute whichever it is called. At least this way a DAVE would be an improvement to the WA33 pairing.


The WA33 will take on a lot of the attributes of the source that's why I'm saying have a good source. I have been listening to my PS Audio Direct Stream dac with SOtM sMs-200, the sound is buttery smooth and still clear, I want to connect it to my speaker system to check it out, but with the WA33 it takes me to dream land.


----------



## melb0028 (Dec 30, 2017)

Just a quick post to contribute further impressions to the discussion - I'm a new owner of the WA33.  This was a step up from my prior amp the Cavalli Lau which was an amazing amp in its own right.  I'm using the KR2A3s (much better by a mile than the stock 2A3s), and the Takatsuki 274B.  Focal utopia for headphones.  The amp has only about 20 hours on it -
First impression is wow - I had no idea there was so much more resolution, detail within the music.  Suddenly I can hear new elements to to music I have heard a thousand times through the years.  Quite a revelation.  The soundstage has opened up nicely, with even more precise placement of each instrument in an expanded space compared to my Lau.  In addition, bass attack and depth is stronger and fuller and there is no hint of sharp treble at any volume.  On a fine recording such as those from mapleshade records this is as close to in the room at the mic that I have heard.  I also notice much prolonged cymbal decay, and sharper drum attack.  All across the spectrum from low to high there is more to hear and appreciate.
I believe this is a truly remarkable and astounding achievement by Jack Wu - I congratulate him for all he has accomplished with this amp.  This is so much more musical in every way then I thought was possible from headphones.  Just amazing...


----------



## Sonic77

melb0028 said:


> Just a quick post to contribute further impressions to the discussion - I'm a new owner of the WA33.  This was a step up from my prior amp the Cavalli Lau which was an amazing amp in its own right.  I'm using the KR2A3s (much better by a mile than the stock 2A3s), and the Takatsuki 274B.  Focal utopia for headphones.  The amp has only about 20 hours on it -
> First impression is wow - I had no idea there was so much more resolution, detail within the music.  Suddenly I can hear new elements to to music I have heard a thousand times through the years.  Quite a revelation.  The soundstage has opened up nicely, with even more precise placement of each instrument in an expanded space compared to my Lau.  In addition, bass attack and depth is stronger and fuller and there is no hint of sharp treble at any volume.  On a fine recording such as those from mapleshade records this is as close to in the room at the mic that I have heard.  I also notice much prolonged cymbal decay, and sharper drum attack.  All across the spectrum from low to high there is more to hear and appreciate.
> I believe this is a truly remarkable and astounding achievement by Jack Wu - I congratulate him for all he has accomplished with this amp.  This is so much more musical in every way then I thought was possible from headphones.  Just amazing...



Thanks for your impressions, I feel pretty lucky to own this amp as well, My headphones are the Abyss Phi. Here are some more impressions.

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2017...yss-headphones-an-unrivaled-vehicle-of-truth/


----------



## dawktah2

melb0028 said:


> Just a quick post to contribute further impressions to the discussion - I'm a new owner of the WA33.  This was a step up from my prior amp the Cavalli Lau which was an amazing amp in its own right.  I'm using the KR2A3s (much better by a mile than the stock 2A3s), and the Takatsuki 274B.  Focal utopia for headphones.  The amp has only about 20 hours on it -
> First impression is wow - I had no idea there was so much more resolution, detail within the music.  Suddenly I can hear new elements to to music I have heard a thousand times through the years.  Quite a revelation.  The soundstage has opened up nicely, with even more precise placement of each instrument in an expanded space compared to my Lau.  In addition, bass attack and depth is stronger and fuller and there is no hint of sharp treble at any volume.  On a fine recording such as those from mapleshade records this is as close to in the room at the mic that I have heard.  I also notice much prolonged cymbal decay, and sharper drum attack.  All across the spectrum from low to high there is more to hear and appreciate.
> I believe this is a truly remarkable and astounding achievement by Jack Wu - I congratulate him for all he has accomplished with this amp.  This is so much more musical in every way then I thought was possible from headphones.  Just amazing...



What DAC are you using?


----------



## melb0028

dawktah2 said:


> What DAC are you using?


I'm using a Berkeley Reference with MQA update - I slowly traded in and invested/upgraded over the years.


----------



## melb0028 (Dec 31, 2017)

Sonic77 said:


> Thanks for your impressions, I feel pretty lucky to own this amp as well, My headphones are the Abyss Phi. Here are some more impressions.
> 
> https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2017...yss-headphones-an-unrivaled-vehicle-of-truth/


Very nice - this amp really brings out the joy in all music doesn't it.  I'm in a dream trance also -


----------



## Sonic77

melb0028 said:


> Very nice - this amp really brings out the joy in all music doesn't it.  I'm in a dream trance also -


It really does, I see you upgraded your tubes, I'm new to tubes so I'll be watching what tubes people are using. My two dacs I'm using alternately are the PS Audio Directstream dac and the chord Blu MkII with the Dave dac.


----------



## melb0028

Sonic77 said:


> It really does, I see you upgraded your tubes, I'm new to tubes so I'll be watching what tubes people are using. My two dacs I'm using alternately are the PS Audio Directstream dac and the chord Blu MkII with the Dave dac.


Very nice set up for sure -
I would say with the stock tubes the WA33 is excellent but with the KR2A3s the resolution and soundstage take a huge leap forward - highly recommended to really bring out the potential of this amp.  Not sure if there is anything preferable to the KR2A3s but they sound reference level to my ears and create a beautiful harmonic richness which is amazing -


----------



## Sonic77

melb0028 said:


> Very nice set up for sure -
> I would say with the stock tubes the WA33 is excellent but with the KR2A3s the resolution and soundstage take a huge leap forward - highly recommended to really bring out the potential of this amp.  Not sure if there is anything preferable to the KR2A3s but they sound reference level to my ears and create a beautiful harmonic richness which is amazing -


Oh ok, you maxed out on the tubes. That's great that there is a difference in tubes, maybe next year, I'll make the leap to those tubes. Good listening


----------



## dawktah2 (Jan 1, 2018)

Thanks so much for these impressions. I continue to look forward to my acquisition. I grew up listening to my dad's H.H. Scott, so have always longed for a tube amp. I had a chance to audition s few DAC over the holiday and I can see that plays a big role. I listened to the Mojo I bought my brother for his birthday. I don't have anything Chord go figure, they have a sound that was completely different. I will probably get a Chord product for my DAC. Unless someone can suggest an alternative.


----------



## melb0028 (Jan 2, 2018)

dawktah2 said:


> Thanks so much for these impressions. I continue to look forward to my acquisition. I grew up listening to my dad's H.H. Scott, so have always longed for a tube amp. I had a chance to audition s few DAC over the holiday and I can see that plays a big role. I listened to the Mojo I bought my brother for his birthday. I don't have anything Chord go figure, they have a sound that was completely different. I will probably get a Chord product for my DAC. Unless someone can suggest an alternative.


I don't have any direct experience but I've heard others really really like the Chord - should be great.  The WA33 definitely scales well with anything you put into it - and it really likes the Utopia bring out aspects I didn't know these cans were capable of - darn these Utopias have a bass kick which is amazing I had no idea they were capable of that - and the attack and decay across the whole spectrum is amazing.
 Tube amps I always thought of as sweet and lush sounding which is great.  Funny thing about the WA33 it like takes the amazing precision, resolution and wide spectrum of a solid state amp and adds this amazing punch and beautiful harmonic structure - very much reference level though with no over sweetening or roll off of the top end.  I think you will love the music ! I sure do - every thing I've heard before sounds totally new to me - I'm just enjoying the music


----------



## dawktah2 (Jan 11, 2018)

Good things come to those who wait!  Chord is releasing the 2Qute replacement called the Qutest.  So once I have it I'll be ordering the WA33.

EDIT: Early estimates are February shipping.  So will tube roll for a year or more then move to the DAVE.


----------



## dawktah2 (Feb 2, 2018)

Putting together the listening and wine room has been one snag after another. The original wine cellar had to be sent back and another one shipped out. I ordered two leather power recliners and they showed up a week ago as manual recliners! They are being remade and will arrive sometime in late March.

In the time being I have a least been able to sit on the floor and listen to my WA-8 directly out of the Synology server. Some dealers are taking pre-orders on the Qutest, but none have been delivered.




I'm looking to get a power conditioner this month, any recommendations? There will only be the two devices needing clean power. The galvanic isolation should keep server from needing to be on it?


----------



## matthewhypolite

It's here.....


----------



## andyschaub

geraldshanghai said:


> Gosh, I just bought WA5LE, then there comes WA33.... the road to perfect headphone sound is cash-sucking.



The WA5-LE is still a really amazing amp. I haven’t heard a WA33 although I’m sure it’s stunning, but the stock WA5-LE with upgraded tubes still sounds pretty awesome.


----------



## chaojiliqilin

Hi! For current WA33 owners, can you hear the electrical buzz noise from the amp when it is working? I sit at about 1 meter away from the amp and I can clearly hear the noise.

Do you have a similar experience?


----------



## melb0028

Mine is dead silent even when I am less then a foot away.


----------



## chaojiliqilin

melb0028 said:


> Mine is dead silent even when I am less then a foot away.


Thank you! Do you have any special power preprocessing? Which input voltage setting do you use? 110, 115 or 120v?


----------



## matthewhypolite

When listening to my abyss it is dead silent as well. I sit about 4 feet away.

I use 115 and an emotiva spike strip.


----------



## melb0028 (Feb 15, 2018)

chaojiliqilin said:


> Thank you! Do you have any special power preprocessing? Which input voltage setting do you use? 110, 115 or 120v?


I’m using a Shunyata Triton V3 for power. The voltage is set to 120.  How is yours set?


----------



## chaojiliqilin (Feb 15, 2018)

melb0028 said:


> I’m using a Shunyata Triton V3 for power. The voltage is set to 120.  How is yours set?


Thank you for your feedback! I do not have any power preprocessing right now. I directly connect to the stock.

I sit about 1 meter away and I can hear the amp keeping making electrical buzz noise like the power transformer.

When talking about the noise out from the headphones driven by my WA33. There is no audible noise for abyss phi. But when I use sony cd-900st, then I can hear the noise loudly even if at minimal volume.

The buzzing noise from the machine itself is pretty annoying. I think I need to find a place to audit another WA33 to confirm whether it is the normal condition or not.


----------



## andyschaub (Feb 16, 2018)

melb0028 said:


> Mine is dead silent even when I am less then a foot away.





matthewhypolite said:


> When listening to my abyss it is dead silent as well. I sit about 4 feet away.
> 
> I use 115 and an emotiva spike strip.



I had my WA5-LE plugged into an Equi=Tech balanced transformer in turn plugged into a PS Audio P10 and it was dead silent even with my old WE 300B’s, but I use of a lot of power treatments because of where I live. You could try a Shunyata Denali.


----------



## andyschaub

I could just be that the WA33 puts out too much power for your more efficient headphones. I had that problem with my WA6-SE when I first used the high-power tubes with the tube adapters.


----------



## musicman59

chaojiliqilin said:


> Thank you for your feedback! I do not have any power preprocessing right now. I directly connect to the stock.
> 
> I sit about 1 meter away and I can hear the amp keeping making electrical buzz noise like the power transformer.
> 
> ...


Sometimes transformers can be sensitive to the noise of the AC coming in. I have experiences when depending the time of the day I can hear some transformer hum out of my amps. a lot of times is at peak demand time.
I would suggest like others here to use a power treatment device.

In regards of noise out of your headphones, it is common to hear some noise on efficient headphones when use with high power/high gain amplifiers.


----------



## watchdog507

I run my WA5-LE and Ancillary equipment  through a PS Audio P5 for virtually silent results. PS Audio is unique in that it doesn’t clean power it regenerates it.  I also use very high end cables for the rejection of RFI and EMI for a black background.


----------



## chaojiliqilin

musicman59 said:


> Sometimes transformers can be sensitive to the noise of the AC coming in. I have experiences when depending the time of the day I can hear some transformer hum out of my amps. a lot of times is at peak demand time.
> I would suggest like others here to use a power treatment device.
> 
> In regards of noise out of your headphones, it is common to hear some noise on efficient headphones when use with high power/high gain amplifiers.



Thank you! My AC source could be dirty and I should buy a power treatment device to test again.

Also thanks a lot for watchdog57 and andyschaub's suggestions.

You mentioned that there are some devices like Equi=Tech balanced transformer, PS Audio P10, Shunyata Denali. Do you have any link to the balanced transformer? What are the differences between them?


----------



## chaos215bar2 (Feb 16, 2018)

chaojiliqilin said:


> Thank you! My AC source could be dirty and I should buy a power treatment device to test again.
> 
> Also thanks a lot for watchdog57 and andyschaub's suggestions.
> 
> You mentioned that there are some devices like Equi=Tech balanced transformer, PS Audio P10, Shunyata Denali. Do you have any link to the balanced transformer? What are the differences between them?



Are you turning the volume up all the way to hear the noise, or hearing it at normal listening levels? If you’re hearing any kind of buzz at normal listening levels on an $8000 amp, your first step should be to send it in for service. That’s not normal, regardless of how dirty the power you’re feeding it with might be.

Also, you’re original post is a little ambiguous. Is the buzz coming from the amp itself, or through the headphonenes? If the former, that suggests something like a loose winding in a power transformer (though I’m not really an expert on headphone amp design). Again, though, almost certainly a problem with the amp.


----------



## watchdog507 (Feb 18, 2018)

chaos215bar2 said:


> Are you turning the volume up all the way to hear the noise, or hearing it at normal listening levels? If you’re hearing any kind of buzz at normal listening levels on an $8000 amp, your first step should be to send it in for service. That’s not normal, regardless of how dirty the power you’re feeding it with might be.
> 
> Also, you’re original post is a little ambiguous. Is the buzz coming from the amp itself, or through the headphonenes? If the former, that suggests something like a loose winding in a power transformer (though I’m not really an expert on headphone amp design). Again, though, almost certainly a problem with the amp.



Cleaning up your power and inoculating your system against stray EMI and RFI will probably not fix this problem if it is related to a hardware issue.  Try a different outlet in another room that isn't on the same circuit.  My feeling here is that it's hardware.  Now on the flip side I have had tubes with a problem that weren't evident until I checked them on two tube testers.  A bad tube will hum at the output a bad transformer could in theory buzz.  They can resonate at 60 hz?


----------



## Thenewguy007

chaojiliqilin said:


> Thank you! My AC source could be dirty and I should buy a power treatment device to test again.
> 
> Also thanks a lot for watchdog57 and andyschaub's suggestions.
> 
> You mentioned that there are some devices like Equi=Tech balanced transformer, PS Audio P10, Shunyata Denali. Do you have any link to the balanced transformer? What are the differences between them?



The problem sounds like DC offset. There are some fairly cheap alternatives to clear that out.
https://www.pooraudiophile.com/2015/03/how-to-fix-dc-offset-and-transformer.html


----------



## andyschaub

chaojiliqilin said:


> Thank you! My AC source could be dirty and I should buy a power treatment device to test again.
> 
> Also thanks a lot for watchdog57 and andyschaub's suggestions.
> 
> You mentioned that there are some devices like Equi=Tech balanced transformer, PS Audio P10, Shunyata Denali. Do you have any link to the balanced transformer? What are the differences between them?



http://www.psaudio.com/perfectwave-p10-power-plant/
http://www.equitech.com/


----------



## dawktah2

Actually, I'm not planning on any power conditioning initially. I'd like to get a feel "hear" for what is "needed." I don't have platinum ears so I may not be able to hear noise. Our home was built in 2005 and we are also in a rural location. I was just a little taken aback by what was inside one of those units taken apart online. I'm sure high end equipment can sterilize the line, I just need aseptic.


----------



## chaojiliqilin (Feb 19, 2018)

chaos215bar2 said:


> Are you turning the volume up all the way to hear the noise, or hearing it at normal listening levels? If you’re hearing any kind of buzz at normal listening levels on an $8000 amp, your first step should be to send it in for service. That’s not normal, regardless of how dirty the power you’re feeding it with might be.
> 
> Also, you’re original post is a little ambiguous. Is the buzz coming from the amp itself, or through the headphonenes? If the former, that suggests something like a loose winding in a power transformer (though I’m not really an expert on headphone amp design). Again, though, almost certainly a problem with the amp.



Sorry for my ambiguity. Let me make it clear. There are two types of noise I can hear.
1. The buzzing noise coming from the amp itself. After I power WA33 on, the machine itself will keep making noise. I sit about 1m away and this type of noise is quite annoying.

2. The buzzing noise heard from the headphone. If I use my Abyss phi, then I cannot hear the noise. But if I use sony CD-900st, even if I turn the volume to the minimum, I can hear the noise from the headphones.

Type one noise is my concern because even if I put on abyss phi, I can still hear the noise from the machine itself.




watchdog507 said:


> Cleaning up your power and inoculating your system against stray EMI and RFI will probably not fix this problem if it is related to a hardware issue.  Try a different outlet in another room that isn't on the same circuit.  My feeling here is that it's hardware.  Now on the flip side I have had tubes with a problem that weren't evident until I checked them on two tube testers.  A bad tube will hum at the output a bad transformer could in theory buzz.  They can resonate at 60 hz?



I have tested my WA33 in different rooms and the noise still exits. The machine has been tested by woo audio again and it should be fine. The bad tubes could be the problem and thank you a lot for your suggestions!




Thenewguy007 said:


> The problem sounds like DC offset. There are some fairly cheap alternatives to clear that out.
> https://www.pooraudiophile.com/2015/03/how-to-fix-dc-offset-and-transformer.html



Nice suggestion! I will do some research to see whether DC offset is the root of problem!



andyschaub said:


> http://www.psaudio.com/perfectwave-p10-power-plant/
> http://www.equitech.com/


Thanks a lot!


----------



## andyschaub

chaojiliqilin said:


> Sorry for my ambiguity. Let me make it clear. There are two types of noise I can hear.
> 1. The buzzing noise coming from the amp itself. After I power WA33 on, the machine itself will keep making noise. I sit about 1m away and this type of noise is quite annoying.
> 
> 2. The buzzing noise heard from the headphone. If I use my Abyss phi, then I cannot hear the noise. But if I use sony CD-900st, even if I turn the volume to the minimum, I can hear the noise from the headphones.
> ...



With respect to item 1, you almost certainly have an unstable transformer. This can be caused by problems with your power line, which you could fix with a PS Audio P10, and/or by weighting down the transformer with a vintage VPI Magic Brick. You could also buy a large sheet of sorbothsnr and put it under the amp, but your best best is really to return the amp to Woo and have them replace / remount the transformer. It happens sometimes.


----------



## chaojiliqilin

andyschaub said:


> With respect to item 1, you almost certainly have an unstable transformer. This can be caused by problems with your power line, which you could fix with a PS Audio P10, and/or by weighting down the transformer with a vintage VPI Magic Brick. You could also buy a large sheet of sorbothsnr and put it under the amp, but your best best is really to return the amp to Woo and have them replace / remount the transformer. It happens sometimes.



You are right! I have returned WA33 to the Woo last month and received it a weeks ago. So the amp itself should be good and the transformer should be OK.

The power line should be the problem I think!


----------



## Thenewguy007 (Mar 30, 2018)

andyschaub said:


> With respect to item 1, you almost certainly have an unstable transformer. This can be caused by problems with your power line, which you could fix with a PS Audio P10, and/or by weighting down the transformer with a vintage VPI Magic Brick. You could also buy a large sheet of sorbothsnr and put it under the amp, but your best best is really to return the amp to Woo and have them replace / remount the transformer. It happens sometimes.



If the transformer itself is making noise, it's the exact definition of DC offset. There are a few cheap devices that fixes it.
Larger transformers tend to exhibit humming from it easier than smaller ones.

Using Sorbothane, platforms & weights might reduce vibrations & give a more precise sound, but won't fix the physical humming sound from the transformer.


----------



## andyschaub

Thenewguy007 said:


> If the transformer itself is making noise, it's the exact definition of DC offset. There are a few cheap devices that fixes it.
> Larger transformers tend to exhibit humming from it easier than smaller ones.
> 
> Using Sorbothane, platforms & weighs might reduce vibrations & give a more precise sound, but won't fix the physical humming sound from the transformer.



Woo makes very good transformers and I have never owned one with a DC offset problem. If that is the issue, it implies that either (a) you have a power problem, in which using an AC regenerator like the P10 will likely fix it (my first solution and the one of three you failed to mention) or (b) the transformer has a defect and needs replacement, as I already said. I personally woukdn’t use a cheap fix on an amp that costs between $8,000:and $15,000 anymore than I would use Silly Putty to fix an SME Model 30 turntable.


----------



## Thenewguy007

andyschaub said:


> Woo makes very good transformers and I have never owned one with a DC offset problem. If that is the issue, it implies that either (a) you have a power problem, in which using an AC regenerator like the P10 will likely fix it (my first solution and the one of three you failed to mention) or (b) the transformer has a defect and needs replacement, as I already said. I personally woukdn’t use a cheap fix on an amp that costs between $8,000:and $15,000 anymore than I would use Silly Putty to fix an SME Model 30 turntable.



Power conditioners or power regenerators won't make a difference to DC Offset (unless they have a feature built in specifically for DC Offset as well). The DC Offset will pass through them & still cause the transformers to physically make sound.

That article I mentioned talks about this. DC Offset is pretty rare occurrence & even rarer for equipment to be made specifically for it.


----------



## dawktah2

The discussion of this issue has made me want to pick one of these up. I have dimmer switches in every room of our house. Not to mention one dimmer LED load mismatch that buzzes if trim is too high which by the description in the article may wreck havoc with my unit once purchased. I'm in no hurry to complete listening room so things like this are very helpful.


----------



## 2359glenn

DC on your power line is unlikely but if you think you have it build this circuit and put it in line with the amp.


----------



## matthewhypolite

Hey All,

I've done up a review of the WA33 EE, see here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite.428570/page-2681#post-14160381


----------



## dawktah2

Well this development has created an interesting twist...

http://www.westernelectric.com/products/300b.html


----------



## musicman59

Has anybody tried the WA33 Elite Edition as a preamp? I wonder how it performs. I am just trying to understand if I can simplify my system selling my McIntosh C2300 and use the WA33 without loosing quality on the current sound of my speakers system.


----------



## joseph69

Does anyone have sufficient experience with the WA33 and GS-X Mk2 using the Utopia?
Thanks


----------



## matthewhypolite

joseph69 said:


> Does anyone have sufficient experience with the WA33 and GS-X Mk2 using the Utopia?
> Thanks



I have the WA33 EE and Utopia, what you wanna know?


----------



## joseph69

matthewhypolite said:


> I have the WA33 EE and Utopia, what you wanna know?


PM sent.


----------



## mahesvara (May 27, 2018)

A month ago I was preparing to move to a different state ... and one thing that led to another, I decided to sell my old WA22 (it was shocking how fast it got sold) and put in an order for the WA33. Thanks to Jack Wu and Mike Liang (@HiFiGuy528) at @WooAudio, the beast arrived a few days ago. I already have the Takatsuki 274B so I installed the rectifier along with the stock tubes (which are very nice given that they _are_ stock) and was immediately blown away when I plugged in my Focal Utopia.

I once thought that when I maxed out my WA22 with TungSol 5998, RCA 5962, and Takatsuki 274B, it would come close to the WA33. It doesn't. Not by a mile. The WA22 loses out to the flagship in every way. The WA33 is _dead_ quiet, its soundstage wide and deep, and its imaging spectacularly precise. I have a few 96Khz/24bit songs from a band I particularly like and never before did I manage to perceive the positions of the various instruments all "around my head" so clearly. There is this sense of huge power and authority behind every note that is quite impressive. I loved my old WA22 to death, but it couldn't deliver music with such effortless grace and ease the way the WA33 does.

I just wish I have a better camera so I can do justice to the beautiful appearance of this silver beast. When I turned off all of the lights in the room, the glow of the tubes is simply mesmerizing, something beyond what the crappy iPhone camera can capture. 

This is nothing that anyone_has_ to have. But to those who is passionate enough about music quality (and more importantly, with sufficient conviction to overcome empty-wallet-phobia), I think the WA33 is worthy of being your end-game tube amp. I certainly would not be looking to replace it with anything else for a very long time.

All in all, I'm super happy with the WA33, and will enjoy it as-is for another while. When the end of the year comes, I may finally max it out with upgrade driver/power tubes and see what more the WA33 is capable of.


----------



## WooAudio

mahesvara said:


> A month ago I was preparing to move to a different state ... and one thing that led to another, I decided to sell my old WA22 (it was shocking how fast it got sold) and put in an order for the WA33. Thanks to Jack Wu and Mike Liang (@HiFiGuy528) at @WooAudio, the beast arrived a few days ago. I already have the Takatsuki 274B so I installed the rectifier along with the stock tubes (which are very nice given that they _are_ stock) and was immediately blown away when I plugged in my Focal Utopia.
> 
> I once thought that when I maxed out my WA22 with TungSol 5998, RCA 5962, and Takatsuki 274B, it would come close to the WA33. It doesn't. Not by a mile. The WA22 loses out to the flagship in every way. The WA33 is _dead_ quiet, its soundstage wide and deep, and its imaging spectacularly precise. I have a few 96Khz/24bit songs from a band I particularly like and never before did I manage to perceive the positions of the various instruments all "around my head" so clearly. There is this sense of huge power and authority behind every note that is quite impressive. I loved my old WA22 to death, but it couldn't deliver music with such effortless grace and ease the way the WA33 does.
> 
> ...




Thanks for sharing our impression. It is delightful to hear you are enjoying your new amp. Indeed, the WA33 will certainly remain in our portfolio for a long time.


----------



## dawktah2

mahesvara said:


> A month ago I was preparing to move to a different state ... and one thing that led to another, I decided to sell my old WA22 (it was shocking how fast it got sold) and put in an order for the WA33. Thanks to Jack Wu and Mike Liang (@HiFiGuy528) at @WooAudio, the beast arrived a few days ago. I already have the Takatsuki 274B so I installed the rectifier along with the stock tubes (which are very nice given that they _are_ stock) and was immediately blown away when I plugged in my Focal Utopia.
> 
> I once thought that when I maxed out my WA22 with TungSol 5998, RCA 5962, and Takatsuki 274B, it would come close to the WA33. It doesn't. Not by a mile. The WA22 loses out to the flagship in every way. The WA33 is _dead_ quiet, its soundstage wide and deep, and its imaging spectacularly precise. I have a few 96Khz/24bit songs from a band I particularly like and never before did I manage to perceive the positions of the various instruments all "around my head" so clearly. There is this sense of huge power and authority behind every note that is quite impressive. I loved my old WA22 to death, but it couldn't deliver music with such effortless grace and ease the way the WA33 does.
> 
> ...



This was very detailed, did you own another Woo amp prior to the WA22, namely the WA5? Whenever I get close to pulling the trigger for the WA33 I hesitate since I only own the WA8 and I don't know if its too big of a jump.


----------



## joseph69

I would think too big of a jump is a good thing (as long as the upstream gear is capable) than too little of a jump, no?
I'd feel I would be wasting my money if I kept moving forward in smaller increments and always wondering, what if, as well as having to sell at some loss to move forward again. I'm going from the WA6 right to the WA33 (standard edition) blindly with no fears whatsoever.


----------



## dawktah2

One thing I didn't realize regardless of which amp I buy is that most don't have remotes.  My recliner is far enough away that I will need to adjust volume by getting up.  Once my daughter is older (don't know safe age around tubes) I can move to a tabletop. I have a double 10U rack with locking door.


----------



## andyschaub

dawktah2 said:


> One thing I didn't realize regardless of which amp I buy is that most don't have remotes.  My recliner is far enough away that I will need to adjust volume by getting up.  Once my daughter is older (don't know safe age around tubes) I can move to a tabletop. I have a double 10U rack with locking door.



Simaudio makes a very nice reference-level headphone amp with balanced inputs and outputs (plus single-ended) that comes with a remote. It isn't the most powerful headphone amp on the market but will drive most headphones very well apart from, say, AKG K1000's or Abyss AB-1266's if you care about that: https://simaudio.com/en/product/430ha-headphone-amplifier/


----------



## dawktah2 (May 31, 2018)

Can anyone reference a good 300B vs 2A3 article? With Western Electric starting up production of the 300B again, don't have a crystal ball but wondering if a new 300B Woo amp is in the future.


----------



## andyschaub

dawktah2 said:


> Can anyone reference a good 300B vs 2A3 article? With Western Electric starting up production of the 300B again, don't have a crystal ball but wondering if a new 300B Woo amp is in the future.



I don't know of any reviews specifically comparing 2A3's to 300B's but, based on my own listening experience and the tube specifications, 300B's have a lot more than 2A3's but 2A3's sound tonally more neutral. It's just that you usually have to have at least two 2A3's per channel running in parallel or in a balanced configuration to have enough power to really drive anything, whereas a single pair of 300B's will do the job. The Western Electric 300B's have always had a special magic of their own that no other 300B can really compete with, but I don't know what the new production run WE300B's will sound like.


----------



## dawktah2

andyschaub said:


> I don't know of any reviews specifically comparing 2A3's to 300B's but, based on my own listening experience and the tube specifications, 300B's have a lot more than 2A3's but 2A3's sound tonally more neutral. It's just that you usually have to have at least two 2A3's per channel running in parallel or in a balanced configuration to have enough power to really drive anything, whereas a single pair of 300B's will do the job. The Western Electric 300B's have always had a special magic of their own that no other 300B can really compete with, but I don't know what the new production run WE300B's will sound like.



Thanks for your reply,

They are due out this year so I'll hide my wallet until there are many reviews.


----------



## mahesvara (Jun 1, 2018)

@dawktah2, I didn't own any Woo Audio amps except WA22 and WA33. I have heard the WA8 at shows, but you can expect that it can't match the WA22, let alone the WA33. Now funny you mentioned the 300B tubes. I was just emailing back and forth with Jack Wu himself about tubes and he said he would recommend the PSVANE WR2A3 tubes to use with the WA33 (I asked if there's a way I can add more warmth to the tonality) https://wooaudio.com/tubes/psvane-wr2a3. Turns out the WR23A is a hybrid between 2A3 and 300B tubes.


----------



## dawktah2 (Jun 2, 2018)

mahesvara said:


> @dawktah2, I didn't own any Woo Audio amps except WA22 and WA33. I have heard the WA8 at shows, but you can expect that it can't match the WA22, let alone the WA33. Now funny you mentioned the 300B tubes. I was just emailing back and forth with Jack Wu himself about tubes and he said he would recommend the PSVANE WR2A3 tubes to use with the WA33 (I asked if there's a way I can add more warmth to the tonality) https://wooaudio.com/tubes/psvane-wr2a3. Turns out the WR23A is a hybrid between 2A3 and 300B tubes.



Is the WA5 in-between the WA22 and the WA33? It is price-wise how about sound-wise?

To complicate matters the Chord TT2 is coming out this fall...and yes it has a remote. Hmmmm...

I know it seems trifling but being fully reclined in your chair and switch genre and albums are recorded at different levels suddenly too loud or too quiet...grumble

Is there a pre-amp solution?


----------



## Majestiic

Hey guys I was just wondering if anyone has had any issues with their 2a3 tubes. Other threads i have read for amps that use 2a3 tubes seemed to have reliability issues. Specifically i was wondering @melb0028 if you have had any quality control issues with your KR2a3 since I am contemplating putting those in. I'm still on stock tubes at the moment but was looking to replace all of mine. Thanks


----------



## melb0028

Majestiic said:


> Hey guys I was just wondering if anyone has had any issues with their 2a3 tubes. Other threads i have read for amps that use 2a3 tubes seemed to have reliability issues. Specifically i was wondering @melb0028 if you have had any quality control issues with your KR2a3 since I am contemplating putting those in. I'm still on stock tubes at the moment but was looking to replace all of mine. Thanks



One of my 2 KR2A3s went bad within the first couple weeks- so maybe there is something to what you say about quality control. Woo audio replaced it - took about 3 weeks in total to get a new one back.  During that time I was using my stock 2A3s. All I can say is holy moly the KR 2A3s just kill the stock tubes. I was counting the days. It’s well worth any possible hassles or risk of a bad tube in my book.


----------



## Majestiic

Ok thank you very much for that @melb0028 . How long now have they been problem free?


----------



## melb0028

Majestiic said:


> Ok thank you very much for that @melb0028 . How long now have they been problem free?



I’ve been running them several hours daily for about 8 weeks. My understanding is the bad ones show themselves typically within a couple weeks of use...


----------



## Rhamnetin

dawktah2 said:


> Is the WA5 in-between the WA22 and the WA33? It is price-wise how about sound-wise?
> 
> To complicate matters the Chord TT2 is coming out this fall...and yes it has a remote. Hmmmm...
> 
> ...



WA5 = single ended powerhouse
WA22 = balanced, also more laid back and colored out of the box, less power output, less resolving

WA22 and WA33 are both fully balanced preamps as well. Hugo TT 2 is interesting, meant to be used primarily as a DAC, but it was confirmed that it has insanely high power output levels at least at the rear RCA and XLR outputs. Specs for the headphone amp/jack aren't announced as far as I know.


----------



## andyschaub

Rhamnetin said:


> WA5 = single ended powerhouse
> WA22 = balanced, also more laid back and colored out of the box, less power output, less resolving
> 
> WA22 and WA33 are both fully balanced preamps as well. Hugo TT 2 is interesting, meant to be used primarily as a DAC, but it was confirmed that it has insanely high power output levels at least at the rear RCA and XLR outputs. Specs for the headphone amp/jack aren't announced as far as I know.



I've had both a WA5 and a WA22 as well as a WA6-SE (the current keeper). The WA5 is single-ended only although it does have a four-pin but not-actually-balanced XLR socket for headphones like the old AKG-1000's, that need a lot of power, as well as a 1/4" single-ended "TRS" socket (what one generally thinks of as a normal full-sized stereo "headphone socket"). The WA22 is balanced and has less power than a WA5 (part of the reason that Woo came out with the also-balanced WA33), but the sound quality of them all depends a lot on what exact tubes you use in either/both/all three amps; and I personally think the WA6-SE (the fourth amp in this list) has a special "magic" to its sound if it has enough power to drive your headphones (I use the Mr. Speakers Ethers with it, a great match). I had the original Hugo TT (not the TT2) and was not impressed with its headphone output or, really, with the TT at all, preferring both the Ayre QB-9 DSD and Woo's own WDS-1 (not to mention the Ayre Codex). I never tried to use my TT as a preamp, so can't comment on the power of the line-level outputs, either the RCA's or XLR's. Maybe the TT2 is different. I just don't know.


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## Majestiic

melb0028 said:


> I’ve been running them several hours daily for about 8 weeks. My understanding is the bad ones show themselves typically within a couple weeks of use...



Ya those are my impressions as well but I've also heard that they have been known to crap out at around 500-600 hours too. Oh well I'm gonna take the plunge and try them anyways. They sure are expensive though...


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## mookil92

That is one exceptionally good looking amp


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## Rhamnetin

andyschaub said:


> I've had both a WA5 and a WA22 as well as a WA6-SE (the current keeper). The WA5 is single-ended only although it does have a four-pin but not-actually-balanced XLR socket for headphones like the old AKG-1000's, that need a lot of power, as well as a 1/4" single-ended "TRS" socket (what one generally thinks of as a normal full-sized stereo "headphone socket"). The WA22 is balanced and has less power than a WA5 (part of the reason that Woo came out with the also-balanced WA33), but the sound quality of them all depends a lot on what exact tubes you use in either/both/all three amps; and I personally think the WA6-SE (the fourth amp in this list) has a special "magic" to its sound if it has enough power to drive your headphones (I use the Mr. Speakers Ethers with it, a great match). I had the original Hugo TT (not the TT2) and was not impressed with its headphone output or, really, with the TT at all, preferring both the Ayre QB-9 DSD and Woo's own WDS-1 (not to mention the Ayre Codex). I never tried to use my TT as a preamp, so can't comment on the power of the line-level outputs, either the RCA's or XLR's. Maybe the TT2 is different. I just don't know.



Oh yeah, the 2nd gen Chord products (Hugo 2 vs Hugo, Qutest, will apply to TT 2 as well) are a gigantic improvent. I was not at all impressed by the original Hugo, but the Hugo 2 is awesome (and better than the TT on paper). But we still don't know about the headphone amp section of the TT 2.


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## dawktah2

andyschaub said:


> I've had both a WA5 and a WA22 as well as a WA6-SE (the current keeper). The WA5 is single-ended only although it does have a four-pin but not-actually-balanced XLR socket for headphones like the old AKG-1000's, that need a lot of power, as well as a 1/4" single-ended "TRS" socket (what one generally thinks of as a normal full-sized stereo "headphone socket"). The WA22 is balanced and has less power than a WA5 (part of the reason that Woo came out with the also-balanced WA33), but the sound quality of them all depends a lot on what exact tubes you use in either/both/all three amps; and I personally think the WA6-SE (the fourth amp in this list) has a special "magic" to its sound if it has enough power to drive your headphones (I use the Mr. Speakers Ethers with it, a great match). I had the original Hugo TT (not the TT2) and was not impressed with its headphone output or, really, with the TT at all, preferring both the Ayre QB-9 DSD and Woo's own WDS-1 (not to mention the Ayre Codex). I never tried to use my TT as a preamp, so can't comment on the power of the line-level outputs, either the RCA's or XLR's. Maybe the TT2 is different. I just don't know.



Woo actually recommended the WA5 for me over the WA33 since i have the Ether Flow and planning to get Focal Clear.  I have to do some investigation but I am getting noise through my system when either A/C unit in house kicks on and you get that quick brown out. I'm using PS Audio Dectect at the moment and when I called tech support they said it shouldn't be doing that.  It going to be a while before I finally decide.


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## joseph69

I now have a pending transaction on my Visa card for the WA33, so I called AudioAdvisor to inquire on the status and they said I'll be receiving my tracking info by the end of the day and I should have the unit by the beginning of this coming week...cant wait! Nice thing is I already have 
2 BNIB/NOS (1 I never used) UN-USAF 596 rectifier tubes to replace the stock tube after some burn in.


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## dawktah2

joseph69 said:


> I now have a pending transaction on my Visa card for the WA33, so I called AudioAdvisor to inquire on the status and they said I'll be receiving my tracking info by the end of the day and I should have the unit by the beginning of this coming week...cant wait! Nice thing is I already have
> 2 BNIB/NOS (1 I never used) UN-USAF 596 rectifier tubes to replace the stock tube after some burn in.



Curious, you chose not to purchase directly from Woo Audio? What is pro/con here?


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## joseph69

I originally ordered directly from Woo not ever knowing they have authorized dealers. While searching Google (after I placed the order with Woo) I realized they did have authorized dealer which were out of state, so I went with AA being they're located in MI and Woo, as well as I, are located in NY, so I saved myself almost $800.00 in NY sales tax by cancelling my order with Woo and ordering through AA via the web.


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## dawktah2

joseph69 said:


> I originally ordered directly from Woo not ever knowing they have authorized dealers. While searching Google (after I placed the order with Woo) I realized they did have authorized dealer which were out of state, so I went with AA being they're located in MI and Woo, as well as I, are located in NY, so I saved myself almost $800.00 in NY sales tax by cancelling my order with Woo and ordering through AA via the web.



Very good Pro, thanks so much


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## joseph69

dawktah2 said:


> Very good Pro, thanks so much


You're welcome.
I'll use that savings towards upgraded tubes for the future. I mean the near future.


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## musicman59

Did you order the regular version or the Elite Edition?


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## joseph69

musicman59 said:


> Did you order the regular version or the Elite Edition?


I ordered the WA33 (standard)


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## joseph69 (Jun 19, 2018)

I received the WA33 (standard) this morning and carefully placed all of the stock tubes into their appropriate sockets, selected my appropriate voltage (110) then plugged in both SE/XLR inputs and the power cord. I switched the output to HP, impedance to L , level to L and input to 1(XLR).
I was immediately disgusted with the feel of the switches...they feel like total garbage, like they're broken. They actually feel like something which would be on a 5yr olds toy (maybe even worse) which has given me a terrible taste in my mouth right from the start. This, too me, is absolutely unacceptable in every way for $8K.

I have the amp powered up with headphones plugged into the (XLR) output and I intend to burn the tubes in for a few hours before taking a quick  listen. Tonight I'm going to do a few hours of listening with my Utopia and give some brief initial impressions. After a sufficient amount of burn in, all I can say is that this amp better sound very acceptable with the stock tubes, and also give me the impression that it would have excellent potential with upgraded tubes.


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## Thenewguy007

Been waiting for someone to give a Utopia/WA33 vs SR-009/BHSE comparison.


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## joseph69

I'll give a brief comparison, but with the stock tubes in the WA33.
I can tell you right now, that for me, the Utopia could never replace my 009/BHSE, they're just 2 different animals. Too me, they sound nothing alike.
I knew this (well) before buying the Utopia. I bought the WA33 to hear how much of an improvement there might be with the Utopia (and my other headphones) compared to the GS-X (which isn't going anywhere) even if I find the WA33 enjoyably different.


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## Rhamnetin

WA33 vs Apex HiFi Pinnacle 2 is the comparison I am interested in (especially with HE1000, SUSVARA, HE-6, or LCD-4).


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## HiFiGuy528

Hi @joseph69 to address your concern about the "quality" of the switches. The quality is what we focused on when choosing parts for all of our products. In the case of the WA33, we use the ultra-premium ElectroSwitch rotary switches. Their switches are designed for mission-critical tasks and they are the primary supplier of high-quality products for electrical utilities, and the U.S. Navy. Sure, it does not have the buttery-smooth feel of switches found in consumer electronics but it is not a toy in regards to the quality. 

Part of the break-in process is also allowing your ears to adjust to the new sound. We recommend customers to enjoy the system as normal during the break-in period. The sound will improve with every use. We hope you can allow the system settle-in before doing critical listenings. 

Don’t hesitate to reach out to us if you have questions or concerns. We’re here to help. 

http://electroswitch.com/electroswitchesandrelays/default.htm


----------



## andyschaub

dawktah2 said:


> Woo actually recommended the WA5 for me over the WA33 since i have the Ether Flow and planning to get Focal Clear.  I have to do some investigation but I am getting noise through my system when either A/C unit in house kicks on and you get that quick brown out. I'm using PS Audio Dectect at the moment and when I called tech support they said it shouldn't be doing that.  It going to be a while before I finally decide.



Yeah, the WA33 and WA5-[LE] are very different amps, as is the WA6-SE, all of which could easily drive your Ether Flows. Apart from overall power and balanced versus single-ended design, the WA33 uses 2A3 power tubes, which sound lovely but put out very little power on their own, hence using them in a fully-balanced amp to at least double your power. The WA5[-LE] uses 300B's, which are great and have about twice the power of 2A3's, but have a midrange "blossom" so aren't tonally as neutral. The WA6-SE puts out the least power of all using dual-triodes as combined driver/power tubes, originally 6DE7 's but now 13DE7's because the 6DE7's are so hard to find. (I think I read they were created at first to use in portable TV sets ... ???) I love the sound of my older WA6-SE with NOS TungSol 6DE7's, don't really know much about the 13DE7's. It's also getting hard to find any, much less good, 2A3's. 300B's are still around but Western Electric made the best by far, I think, and *may* resume production this year ... All three amps use 5U4G rectifier tubes for the AC power, but only the WA5[-LE] uses two of them for truly separate power to both channels. Another thing to think about, disregarding cost, is the WA5[-LE] with the premium parts using the superb but almost extinct Black Gate capacitors along with Mundorf's and V-Caps. It's almost worth the extra $1250 just to get the Black Gates and when they're gone, they are gone for good (as in not made anymore) not available, officially, for the WA33 or WA6-SE. I've never heard the WA33, which started its life (no retail sales, just Woo-owned prototypes) as the "WA22-SE" until Jack Wu went nuts (<joke>) and built the WA33. I imagine it's great if you need that much balanced power and can find some really superb NOS 2A3's (a matched quad or matched set of four). I'm still very fond of the WA6-SE within its limits because I think it sounds "purer" than either the WA5[-LE] or the original WA22; but mine has those 6DE7's and I trust Woo but have never heard 13DE7's. Although my WA6-SE pairs superbly with my original Ethers, I don't know anything about the Ether Flows. Jack knows far more about his amps than I do, but I think his suggestion of the WA-5[-LE] is solid; just spring for the parts upgrades if you can and try to find some great NOS 300B's, just not the Takatsuki's (way overpriced) or the Sophia Royal Princess's (too unreliable). The exception with Sophia Princess, in my own experience, is the 274B Sophia Mesh Plate rectifier tubes (direct replacement for the 5U4G's), with just a touch of tonal warmth, run OK in practice, and are just very, very pretty to look at. I got my WA5-LE before Woo offered the parts upgrades (darn) but used two 274B Sophia Mesh Plate rectifier tubes, some NOS Phillips 6SN7 driver tubes, and a pair of slightly-used but well-matched Western Electric 300B's, I got a great overall combination on anything from my Ethers to original HE-1000's to the original Abyss AB-1266's (which I didn't have for long because, I'm sorry, but for that much cash, they just shouldn't look that ugly or weigh so heavily on your head). I think I've said enough (except for, "Go, Moon Audio, your cables rock ... ").


----------



## joseph69

I was rotating the impedance/level switches from H to L and vise-versa several times just to get aquatinted with the sound differences using 3 different impedance headphones. I realized that these switches need to be turned quickly, then they feel fine. When they're turned slowly (like I was doing) and as @HiFiGuy528 mentioned, they're not buttery smooth, I didn't know this, but definitely expected them to be buttery smooth as you already know from my reaction. I now know that they feel rather lumpy when being turned slowly like I've never experienced. My apologies for the outburst and negative remarks. Understanding now how they're supposed to feel, and finding out for myself that tuning them quickly they feel fine, 
I have no issues with them at all. Again, my apologies to all...I don'twant to mislead anyone on the build quality.

Now as for my initial (and I stress initial) impressions.
I left the amp on for 3hrs (with headphones connected) and did some listening for about 1-1/2 hrs this afternoon between my RS1i/Utopia?HD6XX and I can say I was quite impressed! I was actually overwhelmed at how good all of the headphones I tried with the WA33 sounded, especially with the stock tubes and the little amount of time the amp was powered on. I've been listening tonight for the past 1-1/2 hrs with the Utopia and am enjoying it very much.


----------



## andyschaub

joseph69 said:


> I'll give a brief comparison, but with the stock tubes in the WA33.
> I can tell you right now, that for me, the Utopia could never replace my 009/BHSE, they're just 2 different animals. Too me, they sound nothing alike.
> I knew this (well) before buying the Utopia. I bought the WA33 to hear how much of an improvement there might be with the Utopia (and my other headphones) compared to the GS-X (which isn't going anywhere) even if I find the WA33 enjoyably different.



Yeah, independent of anything else, the Utopias and 009's work in very different ways, so they're very unlikely to sound the same at all; although, you *might* like both in different ways or you *might* not.

The closest I've heard dynamic headphones come to the 009's are the Fostex TH-900's, for some reason ... ?

I've never heard the BHSE or the GS-X. I've heard good things about them; but I also heard good things about the now-defunct Cavalli Liquid Gold, but when I compared one directly to the Woo WA5-LE, the Woo just sounded more like music, YMMV.

Without meaning to step on Focal's toes, I tried the Utopias and just didn't like them even with the WA5-LE. It seems that, when choosing between the Utopias and the Sennheiser HD-800S's, listeners prefer the HD-800's at least in some uncontrolled tests.

I'm very fond of the planar-magnetic Ethers, which are closer in design to the 009's (but not *that* close) plus the planar-magnetic HE-1000's.

I don't mean this in a critical way at all, but the WA33 and BHSE are vastly different amps for altogether vastly different types of headphones. I'd be curious about how the BHSE compares to the 3ES or WES with the 009's, all electrostatic stuff.

I'll be curious to see what you think of the WA33 versus GS-X, more of an apples to apples comparison if you use the same headphones (within reasonable limits). My guess is---just speculating---that the TH-900's with either the WA33 or GS-X will sound closer to the 009's using either the BHSE or another electrostatic amp than the Utopias ever will.


----------



## Rhamnetin

andyschaub said:


> Yeah, independent of anything else, the Utopias and 009's work in very different ways, so they're very unlikely to sound the same at all; although, you *might* like both in different ways or you *might* not.
> 
> The closest I've heard dynamic headphones come to the 009's are the Fostex TH-900's, for some reason ... ?
> 
> ...



Interesting. The TH900 is the opposite of the SR-009; the former has a strong V-shaped sound signature and very closed in sound, the latter has a linear frequency response and extremely open sound.

The GS-X Mk2 is the real deal. Cavalli amps have lots of build quality issues, lower quality components, and other issues which you can read about on head-case. Not in the same league.


----------



## joseph69

andyschaub said:


> Yeah, independent of anything else, the Utopias and 009's work in very different ways, so they're very unlikely to sound the same at all; although, you *might* like both in different ways or you *might* not.
> 
> The closest I've heard dynamic headphones come to the 009's are the Fostex TH-900's, for some reason ... ?
> 
> ...


Owning both already, I feel they don't sound the same, but I do like them both for their differences. I agree, There is something about both the WA6 & WA33 that doe's sound very magically musical, which BTW are the only 2 Woo amps I've ever heard, and currently own. I didn't like the Utopia myself until the 3rd time I borrowed them...I thought were fantastic compared to the first pair (when they were just released) which definitely had something wrong with them, which I didn't know at the time. The second time, they didn't impress me either? The third time was a charm. The pair I finally purchased sounded great right out if the box.

I actually sold my 800S. based only on their lack of bass impact (too me, and I'm no bass head) after purchasing the Utopia because they weren't getting enough head time. At that time I didn't know I was going to be purchasing the WA33 or I would have kept them because the WA33 has nice bass, so they probably would pair very well together. I just might have to re-purchase them.

I also agree strongly agree with @Rhamnetin about the 009 having an "extremely open sound" which at the same time integrates the different instruments and vocal like I've never heard before.


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## HiFiGuy528

When comparing systems, I recommend using each system for a few days to allow your ears and brain to adjust to the new sound. If you simply go from one to another side by side, you are basically going by your short-term memory.


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## joseph69

Yes, I always listen to each for a few days consecutively.


----------



## dawktah2

Hello All,

I cannot remember if I mentioned it in an earlier post but I get a buzzing through my current tube amp when *either* HVAC unit turns on.  My house has two separate breaker panels and two HVAC units on each panel.  The HVAC unit on the *other* breaker panel still causes noise.  I am currently in touch with PS Audio trying to troubleshoot I just have been out of town during the day and can call them back.

Question:  Does balanced architecture help with this?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

@dawktah2 The PS Audio Power Plant should help your power issues.


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## mahesvara (Jun 30, 2018)

I finally got my Utopia back from Focal (they sent me a new pair after warranty due to creaking in the left cup) and I get some quiet time with the WA33. You know people always complain about how teeny tiny little the soundstage of the Utopia is? Not so with the WA33. Under LO impedance and LO level, the soundstage of the Utopia is wide. This is important. When you switched on to HI level, you get a lot more impact with the Utopia, but you get more distortion and the soundstage compresses significantly.

I'm a Woo Audio fan so take what I said with a lot of salt, but I have never heard the Utopia sound better, ever. The soundstage of the Focal headphones isn't tall (you don't get the massive envelopment you do with the Susvara or the HE-1 for example), but driven by WA33, you can feel the width, you can perceive the depth and blackness between the layers of instruments, and of course, every note of music. It's like you have two long cylinders on either side of the head and you can tell where along the length the instruments are placed.

High quality recording (I'm not specifically talking about bitrate, I'm talking about how well the song was mastered) makes a huge difference with things that discriminates against low-quality recordings like the Utopia and WA33. So many things contribute to what you hear at the end, and people dump hate on the Utopia pretty often. It can be just me, but when the Utopia gets the upstream gears it deserves like the WA33 and some euphonious DAC like the Schiit Gungnir Multibit, all you hear is magic.

(I tried the Yggdrasil and didn't like it much)


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## melb0028

Excellent post. I agree completely- the Utopia soundstage is beautifully wide on the WA33. The combination is truly fantastic and magical when an excellent source is available.  I can also attest the combination seems to have no upper boundaries- I’ve reached an Aurender w20 running into a Berkeley reference dac. Every change for the better in the signal chain will be revealed by the Utopia/wa33 combination.


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## joseph69

mahesvara said:


> You know people always complain about how teeny tiny little the soundstage of the Utopia is? Not so with the WA33. Under LO impedence and LO level, the soundstage of the Utopia is wide. This is important. When you switched on to HI level, you get a lot more impact with the Utopia, but you get more distortion and the soundstage compressed significantly.


This is exactly what I heard with the WA33/Utopia combo, the entire sound was huge! I thought the impact was excellent with both the impedance & level set to LO.


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## dawktah2

I have to try and find a dealer to audition the WA33.  The way I have designed our wine/listening loft I really need a remote.  A table top tube amp doesn't mix with my soon to be 6 year old daughter. So I have installed in a rack with a locking door. I am deciding on the Chord Hugo TT2 as an alternate.


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## Rhamnetin

dawktah2 said:


> I have to try and find a dealer to audition the WA33.  The way I have designed our wine/listening loft I really need a remote.  A table top tube amp doesn't mix with my soon to be 6 year old daughter. So I have installed in a rack with a locking door. I am deciding on the Chord Hugo TT2 as an alternate.



Hugo 2 TT will of course have the benefit of being a stellar DAC. A step up from your Qutest while also being a significant step up vs all of your amps I would imagine. And if you really wanted, you can add a WA33 into the chain later on down the line.


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## andyschaub (Jun 30, 2018)

Rhamnetin said:


> Hugo 2 TT will of course have the benefit of being a stellar DAC. A step up from your Qutest while also being a significant step up vs all of your amps I would imagine. And if you really wanted, you can add a WA33 into the chain later on down the line.



We all have opinions so just please take this as mine, but I have yet to a hear a Chord DAC that I really like. I've only heard two, the Mojo and the original TT. The Mojo sounded OK, maybe a bit warm and soft for my tastes.

The TT sounded "off" to me in a way I can't describe, but I really preferred the Ayre QB-9 DSD, the Ayre Codex, and the Woo Audio WDS-1, all of which do pretty much the same thing with different inherent limits.

I think Chord made a very poor choice in using a switching power supply with inadequate battery buffering instead of a linear PSU for the TT. I can also say--by way of direct comparison--that the Woo WA8 Eclipse DAC with a vacuum-tube amp section has an analog input that sounds much better that the TT's headphone output alone.

Also, I've only owned DAC's that design their own D/A-conversion firmware and load it onto an FPGA: the dCS Debussy, the Chord Mojo, and the Chord TT. D/A-firmware is really not that easy to build. dCS relies heavily of FFT analysis and I don't know what Chord does, but I think that there might have been better strategies.

That's just my opinion and I mean it in no way as an objective assessment.

I hesitate to mention this, but I was about to publish an unrelated review in Headphone Guru when I made a similar comment about the TT around two years ago. I commented that I personally thought the TT's RCA (single-ended) outputs sounded better than its XLR (balanced) outputs, something that Chord had agreed with and publicly posted in more than one place.

However, the the-technical-editor for Headphone Guru, Eric Neff, saw my post on head-fi and asked me to delete it because he claimed, if I understand what "balanced" meant, I would see that I could not be right, that balanced meant you always had twice the amplitude of single-ended and greater amplitude always sounds better, that he knew this for sure because he was an engineer and, "engineers rule the world". a direct quote.

I tried to explain that, while balanced cables may carry double the voltage or current, the two "sides" are 180 degrees out of phase so, when recombined, cancel noise picked up along the way.

Plus, I had adjusted for any amplitude differences with the "volume control" on my Cavalli Liquid Gold anyway and felt pretty sure that at least I personally thought the RCA (single-ended) outputs sounded better than the XLR (balanced) outputs on the TT all other things being equal.

Eric hammered me with emails while I was at work demanding that I remove the comment from head-fi because my, "lack of knowledge", spoke poorly for Headphone Guru.

I politely declined again and again until, eventually, the EIC Frank Iacone--*a former insurance salesman*--emailed me saying that he wasn't publishing my review, was removing me from the Headphone Guru staff, and immediately took me off their private FaceBook chat list.

He claimed it had nothing to do with Eric Neff but was because I had only put two pictures in my article and was supposed to put three (???), at which point Eric's emails to my personal account also ceased.

Frank also chastised me at the time for "condemning" his preference for APS-C CMOS sensors (14-bits of color, 25.1 X 16.7mm) in mirrorless digital cameras all because I said that full-frame CCD sensors (16-bits of color, 45 X 60mm) in medium-format DSLR cameras *might* look better in some situations, which I took as a kind of, "... and your mother, too".

As it happened, I was working on the Sony Playstation engineering team during that conversation, although I didn't get a chance to bring that up, not that it really matters in the context of basic single-ended or balanced analog cable design and topology, not to mention having a "volume control" to make things sound louder or softer.

I later heard that exact same physical TT (down to the serial number) at Moon Audio in Cary, NC after always-kind Drew Baird let me return it, using RCA (single-ended) cables into a Pass Labs HPA-1 and it sounded really good specifically with DSD files.

With regards to Eric, Frank, and Headphone Guru, the Latin phrase, "caveat emptor", comes to mind, meaning, "buyer beware", although--in this case--I think the following expression seems more apt, "Non credo quod principes terrarum assecurationis exigo", or, "never trust world rulers and insurance sellers".


----------



## Rhamnetin (Nov 16, 2018)

andyschaub said:


> We all opinions so just please take this as mine, but I have yet to a hear a Chord DAC that I really like. I've only heard two, the Mojo and the original TT. The Mojo sounded OK, maybe a bit warm and soft for my tastes. The TT sounded "off" to me in a way I can't describe, but I really preferred the Ayre QB-9 DSD, the Ayre Codex, and the Woo Audio WDS-1, all of which do pretty much the same thing with different inherent limits. I think Chord made a very poor choice in using a switching power supply with adequate battery buffering or just a linear PSU. Also, I've only owned DAC's that design their own D/A-conversion firmware and load i onto an FPGA: the dCS Debussy, the Chord Mojo, and the Chord TT. D/A-firmware is really not that easy to build. dCS relies heavily of FFT analysis and I don't know what Chord does, but I think that there might have been better strategies. That's just my opinion and I mean it in no way as an objective assessment.



The gen 2 Chord DACs are not in the same league as the gen 1s FYI. You're in the same boat as a lot of people; listened to the Mojo and TT or original Hugo and was unimpressed (I was unimpressed by the original Hugo), but the gen 2s seem to impress almost everyone who listens to them.


----------



## andyschaub

Rhamnetin said:


> For me, Chord DACs are the only delta sigma DACs that I really like.



Thanks, I appreciate that. FWIW, since Chord writes their own DAC firmware and loads it onto an FPGA, no one outside of Chord really knows how it works, so it's not necessarily a Delta-Sigma DAC. It might be, or it might use a different algorithm / type of DAC design altogether. That's neither good nor bad, just an assumption we can't really make even if we all agree that the TT 2 sounds better than the TT. Cheers.


----------



## Rhamnetin

andyschaub said:


> Thanks, I appreciate that. FWIW, since Chord writes their own DAC firmware and loads it onto an FPGA, no one outside of Chord really knows how it works, so it's not necessarily a Delta-Sigma DAC. It might be, or it might use a different algorithm / type of DAC design altogether. That's neither good nor bad, just an assumption we can't really make even if we all agree that the TT 2 sounds better than the TT. Cheers.



Good point, I don't want to mislead people. Perhaps I should have said "non-R2R DAC" since that's what I was really getting at.


----------



## andyschaub

Rhamnetin said:


> Perhaps I should have said "non-R2R DAC" since that's what I was really getting at.



OK, thanks. I'm sure that an-FPGA-based solution would not use a resistor-based DAC, neither an R/2R nor a true binary-weighted-resistor design (if such a thing could be built for more than about three bits at a time right now under varying temperature conditions, etc., cost-effectively).


----------



## dawktah2

andyschaub said:


> We all have opinions so just please take this as mine, but I have yet to a hear a Chord DAC that I really like. I've only heard two, the Mojo and the original TT. The Mojo sounded OK, *maybe a bit warm and soft* for my tastes.
> 
> The TT sounded "off" to me in a way I can't describe, but I really preferred the Ayre QB-9 DSD, the Ayre Codex, and the Woo Audio WDS-1, all of which do pretty much the same thing with different inherent limits.
> 
> ...



Being old enough to remember when audio went from tubes to *solid state* being cold and sterile was generally how it was described. Irony...


----------



## Rhamnetin

Thanks for the honesty andyschaub and Dubstep Girl. That's exactly what consumers need to see. Don't trust every article and review out there, as many of these sites (I'd guess most) are more focused on maintaining their own relationships with partners and their own business than providing honest reviews.


----------



## dawktah2

Reviews: Its to me the same as being a passenger blindfolded in a car and being told what kind of car you're in. Your own impressions are the equivalent of taking the blindfold off


----------



## omniweltall (Aug 4, 2018)

andyschaub said:


> Thanks, I appreciate that. FWIW, since Chord writes their own DAC firmware and loads it onto an FPGA, no one outside of Chord really knows how it works, so it's not necessarily a Delta-Sigma DAC. It might be, or it might use a different algorithm / type of DAC design altogether. That's neither good nor bad, just an assumption we can't really make even if we all agree that the TT 2 sounds better than the TT. Cheers.


Andy,

As far as I know, Chord Dacs are Delta-Sigma, even if it is custom. Chord uses a lot of taps to reduce the potential inaccuracies in Delta Sigma modulation.


----------



## isquirrel (Aug 6, 2018)

I have been using a WA 33 Elite for the last month for long term review. The best valve combination I have found is 4 x Gold Plate 6C45 Electro Harmonix from Woo, 4 x Quad matched KR 2A3 HP and 1 x Takatsuki 274B rectifier. I have tried the following rectifiers:

KR 274 HP
Elrog 274B
Takatsuki 274B

I also have a set of 234 Mono's however the WA 33 is not full burned in yet so hard to draw any definate conclusions about SQ, however I have found the amp to be highly rectifier dependant. The Elrog gave a great sense of Transparency however the bass was nowhere as solid or deep as the Takatsuki 274B.

My next valve move is to try 4 x quad matched EML 2A3 Mesh Plates, I have ordered 1 x 5U4G & 1 x 274B Mesh Plate rectifiers to test.

I am running in balanced using the new Shunyata Sigma IC's and Digital cables AES 110 ohm & 75 ohm BNC word clock which replaced Transparent Gen 5 Ref XL. To my surprise the Shunyata cables were a nice improvement in terms of clarity, speed, depth and richness. The musicality I was not expecting, Shunyata cables have previously been accurate and somewhat lean IMO. The new Sigma's are great value for money compared to the top end cables of pretty much any high end manufacturer.

The amp + valves has changed SQ pretty much constantly during break in, its now settling down and I am really enjoying it. I have gravitated towards the LCD-4Z's set on Lo Z and Lo Level. Using my DAC as the pre amp and volume control.

Has anyone else tried the EML Mesh plates in the WA 33 yet?


----------



## isquirrel

With the Takatsuki 274B, also using the HRS Vortex Footers which have helped.


----------



## joseph69

isquirrel said:


> Has anyone else tried the EML Mesh plates in the WA 33 yet?


I'm waiting for my WA33 (standard) to arrive with EHX 6C45Pi drivers from Woo/EML 2A3-S power tubes & I'll be using my NOS UE-USAF 596 rectifier tube.
I chose the Solid plate EML 2A3-S's on Jack Wu's recommendation over the EML Mesh plate. Jack is in possession of all the tubes I mentioned to check in my WA33 before shipping. I'll only have the stock tubes to do any comparisons, though.


----------



## isquirrel

joseph69 said:


> I'm waiting for my WA33 (standard) to arrive with EHX 6C45Pi drivers from Woo/EML 2A3-S power tubes & I'll be using my NOS UE-USAF 596 rectifier tube.
> I chose the Solid plate EML 2A3-S's on Jack Wu's recommendation over the EML Mesh plate. Jack is in possession of all the tubes I mentioned to check in my WA33 before shipping. I'll only have the stock tubes to do any comparisons, though.



I have tried both stock and Mesh plates from EML, always preferred the sound of the Mesh plates. I have a Mesh Globe 45 which is in my top 5 tubes of all time. Good thing about EML is that they have a 5 year warranty. I don't believe any other Tube Manufacturer offers such a long warranty period.


----------



## koven

isquirrel said:


> I have tried both stock and Mesh plates from EML, always preferred the sound of the Mesh plates. I have a Mesh Globe 45 which is in my top 5 tubes of all time. Good thing about EML is that they have a 5 year warranty. I don't believe any other Tube Manufacturer offers such a long warranty period.



How do you like the WA33 vs your estat setup? Do you switch between for genres or lean towards one typically?


----------



## joseph69

isquirrel said:


> I have tried both stock and Mesh plates from EML, always preferred the sound of the Mesh plates. I have a Mesh Globe 45 which is in my top 5 tubes of all time. Good thing about EML is that they have a 5 year warranty. I don't believe any other Tube Manufacturer offers such a long warranty period.


The 5yr warranty is exactly why I went with EML. I have to say that I was very impressed with the WA33 in stock configuration, but the tubes were terribly loud, otherwise I'd been fine with their sound and would not have upgraded for a while.


----------



## llamaluv

I'm considering getting a WA33 and am interested in suggestions/opinions on how I should go about "feeding" it, given that I'll be relying on one DAC to output to two different amps -- a GS-X mk2 and the WA33.

The GS-X mk2 really wants to be fed via XLR because it is fully balanced. My understanding is that the WA33 is optimally fed using XLR as well. However, the DAC (Metrum Pavane) of course only has one XLR output.

I see three possible options (and if there are other viable solutions, I'd love to hear them):

1. Use the XLR "loop" output on the GS-X to pass the XLR signal to the WA33.

2. Bite the bullet and just settle for feeding one of the two amps via RCA. I expect to be using the GS-X less than half the time, but more than just occasionally.

3. Find some sort of passive XLR A/B switch box contraption of passable quality (although a quick Google search reveals to me no such viable products).

My primary concern is, of course, getting both amps the most optimal signal possible. My guess is that option 1 will probably work well enough, even if it may not be 100% ideal.

Also I should note that the ability for both amps to output to headphones simultaneously won't be important factor to me.


----------



## joseph69 (Aug 8, 2018)

Are you going to be listening to both amps at the same time?
If not, I had 2 XLR (Y) splitters made (Audioquest Mackenzie) which I use on the amp sides to receive the DAC signal to both my
GS-XMk2/BHSE via XLR being I only use 1 amp at a time. I was told by my DAC manufacturer that HeadAmp which has used the same DAC at audio conventions does power both of these amps at the same time with no issues, but I've never tried doing so. 

I should also be picking up my WA33 this Friday if all goes well.


----------



## andyschaub

joseph69 said:


> Are you going to be listening to both amps at the same time?
> If not, I had 2 XLR (Y) splitters made (Audioquest Mackenzie) which I use on the amp sides to receive the DAC signal to both my
> GS-XMk2/BHSE via XLR being I only use 1 amp at a time. I was told by my DAC manufacturer that HeadAmp which has used the same DAC at audio conventions does power both of these amps at the same time with no issues, but I've never tried doing so.



It's really a shame that so many brick and mortar stores have closed.

I've only heard a Woo WES / SR-009 combination once under very uncontrolled conditions and it sounded terribly bright, but the WES / 009 combination has a reputation for being rich and warm.

The BHSE is supposed to sound tonally more neutral but I have read some comments describing it as "sterile"; and who really knows? When you can't go into a store and actually listen to what you might purchase, when you just have reviews all of which say everything is great, you really have no clue how you might like the sound of a particular combination.

I'm sure the WA33 sounds wonderful but comparing it to the BHSE is really comparing apples and oranges. You can't even use the same kinds of headphones. Comparing a 3ES to a BHSE would make more sense with the same source player and the same exact pair of headphones.

I don't mean to overact, I've just been reading about the WES, the 3ES, the WA33, and several other amps / headphones for a while now and, while I don't personally believe in double-blind A/B comparisons, you've got to be able to settle in and listen to something for a while and try different combinations from the back of the store rather than maxing out your credit cards to have fifteen unique combinations in your home that you get to audition for 14 day and then you have to decide, "Is X worth $10,000.00 or not?"

I mean, you still get to test drive cars, don't you?


----------



## llamaluv

joseph69 said:


> Are you going to be listening to both amps at the same time?
> If not, I had 2 XLR (Y) splitters made (Audioquest Mackenzie) which I use on the amp sides to receive the DAC signal to both my
> GS-XMk2/BHSE via XLR being I only use 1 amp at a time. I was told by my DAC manufacturer that HeadAmp which has used the same DAC at audio conventions does power both of these amps at the same time with no issues, but I've never tried doing so.



If I do end up with the WA33, I guess I'll have to try the A/B switcher route too (this, maybe), and compare it to the special GS-X mk2 "loop out" output. 

This weekend I'll be auditioning the WA33, plus the Egoista 845 (for a second time), probably in the same session.


----------



## andyschaub

llamaluv said:


> If I do end up with the WA33, I guess I'll have to try the A/B switcher route too (this, maybe), and compare it to the special GS-X mk2 "loop out" output.
> 
> This weekend I'll be auditioning the WA33, plus the Egoista 845 (for a second time), probably in the same session.



Although it would be single-ended, you'd be much better off, at least for testing, with a Manley Skipjack, which just came back into production, much better sound quality than a generic switcher, either XLR or RCA.


----------



## joseph69

andyschaub said:


> It's really a shame that so many brick and mortar stores have closed.
> 
> I've only heard a Woo WES / SR-009 combination once under very uncontrolled conditions and it sounded terribly bright, but the WES / 009 combination has a reputation for being rich and warm.
> 
> ...


My Stax journey was a KGSSHV/KGST while I waited for my BHSE to arrive. So yes, it was a journey being I had to buy and try everything blindly.



llamaluv said:


> If I do end up with the WA33, I guess I'll have to try the A/B switcher route too (this, maybe), and compare it to the special GS-X mk2 "loop out" output.
> 
> This weekend I'll be auditioning the WA33, plus the Egoista 845 (for a second time), probably in the same session.


The only reason I didn't want to use the loop out of the GSX is because I didn't want to have it powered on via XLR loop out. Only the RCA loop outputs are powered by default when the amp is off.

Enjoy you're demo's and please give your impressions.


----------



## llamaluv

andyschaub said:


> Although it would be single-ended, you'd be much better off, at least for testing, with a Manley Skipjack, which just came back into production, much better sound quality than a generic switcher, either XLR or RCA.



Thanks, that does look interesting for SE. I'm actually currently using a Schiit Sys to switch between two unbalanced amps, which works well enough, but that Skipjack looks next-level. 



joseph69 said:


> The only reason I didn't want to use the loop out of the GSX is because I didn't want to have it powered on via XLR loop out. Only the RCA loop outputs are powered by default when the amp is off.
> 
> Enjoy you're demo's and please give your impressions.



Oh right it needs to be powered on, huh. 

Thanks and will do.


----------



## dawktah2

WA33 owners would you characterize your unit as sounding dark? I like a prominent low end.  I guess it stems from my DJ days, early adopting to Surround Sound LFE and also driving around in the 90's with a subwoofer in the trunk.

I have a WA8 and I am hoping they have same sound signature which some have described as dark.


----------



## llamaluv

I'm looking for a tube amp with enough grunt to do justice to the Abyss Phi (and possibly the Susvara in the future). It's a short list of candidates that fit that description. With that in mind, I brought my Abyss Phis to the local shop this morning and gave the WA33 and Egoista 845 a nice listen-to (my 2nd time with the latter). 

I really took to the Woo and found it immediately very engaging. Soundstage, imaging, dynamics, resolving-ness, instrument separation -- all really satisfying, and easily a couple steps up from the tube amps I've had up to this point. To my ears it had an even, slightly warmer tilt to its tonality (w/ the stock tubes) that suites my preferences. Also, I found it to have a treble sweetness that was appealing that I could tell would grow on me. In the end, I didn't need to listen to the amp for long.

The merits of the Egoista's technicalities were super-obvious, but I think the sound signature is something I'm still struggling to wrap my head around. It had a tube midrange sweetness/bloom which -- combined with its analytical-like speed and _maybe_ more distant presentation? -- wasn't really clicking for me. Soundstage is really big and very interesting, but didn't sound "natural" -- or maybe it was just that it sounded unfamiliar. I could see it growing on me with a longer-term listen, but at the 845's price point, that may not be so likely. 

Two more things about the Viva amp though. The instrument realism is crazy-good. Jazz percussion is just like... damn.  The other thing is that I felt like it took turning up the volume to 75+ dBA for the amp to come into its own, but since I usually listen at the 65-75 range, I'm slightly afraid all that gorgeous glass, heat, and automotive paint might end up being wasted on me.

Anyway, I ended up having less to say about the Woo amp, but I could tell from my audition of it that I'd find it very satisfying to own.


----------



## koven

Do I see a WA33 in your future, @llamaluv?  Did they have both the Elite and standard?


----------



## llamaluv

koven said:


> Do I see a WA33 in your future, @llamaluv?  Did they have both the Elite and standard?


Hehe, could be! I'm trying to take a more measured approach than usual. They just had the standard, which was shipped for the occasion. I should probably give it a second drive-by audition while the shop still has it!


----------



## matthewhypolite

dawktah2 said:


> WA33 owners would you characterize your unit as sounding dark? I like a prominent low end.  I guess it stems from my DJ days, early adopting to Surround Sound LFE and also driving around in the 90's with a subwoofer in the trunk.
> 
> I have a WA8 and I am hoping they have same sound signature which some have described as dark.



The WA33 character can be changed depending on the tubes you use. So if you want a darker sound you can get the appropriate tubes to get that. 
Check out my WA33 review in my sig and see if that answers your questions. If not let me know, happy to help you out.


----------



## andyschaub

llamaluv said:


> I'm looking for a tube amp with enough grunt to do justice to the Abyss Phi (and possibly the Susvara in the future). It's a short list of candidates that fit that description. With that in mind, I brought my Abyss Phis to the local shop this morning and gave the WA33 and Egoista 845 a nice listen-to (my 2nd time with the latter).



I've never heard the WA33. I'm sure that it's a remarkable amp. I did use a WA5-LE with the Abyss Phi 's and that worked very well. Really, though, I decided I just did not like the Phi's. Disregarding their weight and appearance, they just don't sound "right" to me. I'm still very fond of the Fostex TH-900's, which are easy to drive and sound closer to the Stax SR-009's than any other headphone I have heard. Even though some people regard the Focal Utopias as a bargain at 3,999USD, I've never heard a pair of headphones that cost more than about 1,200USD--apart from the Stax SR-009's--that seemed worth the price to me.


----------



## dawktah2 (Aug 11, 2018)

I was originally sold on the WA33 but soon after that Western Electric announced they are reintroducing the 300B tube.  I think I need to be still for a while.

WA33B???


----------



## andyschaub

dawktah2 said:


> I was originally sold on the WA33 but soon after that Western Electric announced they are reintroducing the 300B tube.  I think I need to be still for a while.
> 
> WA33B???



I love the sound of 2A3's, but almost no one makes them anymore and good matched quads of NOS 2A3's are next to impossible to find; when I had got my WA5-LE, Woo did not offer the parts upgrade, so I got the Sophia Princess Mesh Plate rectifier tubes, some NOS Phillips driver tubes, and a pair of slightly used by well-matched Western Electric 300B's, and those made all the difference in the world in terms of sound quality. The WA33 uses 2A3's in a "push pull" configuration for balanced operation.

The same thing can be done with 300B's. However, I prefer 2A3's and 300B's used in a dual-parallel single-ended configuration. I don't know why but--independent of power--the tonal quality of 300B's when used in a dual-parallel configuration changes a lot, becomes richer but at the same time more neutral or linear. Although it's very expensive and designed for speakers rather than headphones, Audio Note UK makes a very nice pair of dual monoblock amps with dual-parallel 300B's, the Kassai. I wish Audio Note UK made a headphone amp. You could use something like the IZero and just connect headphones using four wires in a balanced configuration to the four speaker posts to avoid the problems with a common ground.


----------



## llamaluv (Aug 16, 2018)

So... this happened.






Here are some impressions from my first evening's worth of listening. The unit's just started being burned-in, and I'm expecting its character to evolve somewhat (I'd love some input on if/how I should modulate my expectations on that though...).

First off, a couple non-sound-related things:

I did not properly appreciate based on anything I'd read online just how much heat this thing pushes out. I can feel the heat emanating from the tubes when I spread my palms out above it from a distance of over two feet. And when the unit's been on for more than a couple hours, it's literally too hot to grab and lift. So yea. H-O-T. Not to be underestimated.

All that heat has to come from somewhere, and according to my PS Audio P3 power regenerator, the amp draws 250 watts of power. Yes really. By way of comparison, my DAC sips just 20, my solid state amp 30, and the Studio Six was like 80 I think. This thing is beastly.




_The amp most definitely does not fit under the TV there. I have no idea where it's ultimately going to go, lol.
_
What's not beastly is the nature of its presentation, IMO. For all its grunt, the amp has a slightly ethereal and light touch is the way I hear it. Treble has a nice sweetness, is articulate and un-shy, but not overdone. I hear lots of air, especially on the Utopia and Abyss Phi, which I'm liking alot.

But what's most striking to me so far is how the WA33 handles "microdynamics". I've never heard microdynamic nuance rendered so gorgeously (and my appreciation for this should probably be evenly split with the Metrum Pavane that's feeding it). It's like I can track the decay of individual notes all the way down. Stuff like cymbals linger for longer than I'm used to. Instruments that are purposefully recessed in the mix maintain their clarity without the need to purposefully focus your attention to notice them. Overall, a very "liquid" sound.

The amp does, however, sound importantly different with the Abyss Phi from how I heard it (the exact same unit) while auditioning it at the shop (where I used my own pair of Phis). It sounded warmer and maybe less airy, with less of a midrange tube phase-bloom (on the Phi specifically). Yea, the signal chain leading up the amp was of course different, but the change in character I hear has me feeling pretty puzzled, and kind of intrigued. But it's still burning in, so I guess I'll have to reserve judgement for now and see how it goes first...

Lessee, what else? The Utopia sounds just great in an uncomplicated way that needs no belabored exposition. And the HEKv2... I'm starting to draw the conclusion that the HEKv2 simply sounds like the HEKv2 no matter what's driving it.

On the hi/low impedance switch... On the Phi, the two settings seem equally viable. High-impedance increases midrange presence and attack. Same for the HEKv2, where the high-impedance setting makes snare drums sound just right. I didn't try high-impedance on the Utopia for more than a minute, but is presumably too much of an impedance mismatch, not sure. It made the mids more forward too, but mostly increased the volume pretty dramatically...

Lastly, a plug for the favorite thing I listened to on the WA33 last night: subHuman by Recoil c. 2007, on the Abyss.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

llamaluv said:


> So... this happened.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you for the listening impressions. Yes, the sound will improve with every use. 

Also, try the HI / LO level setting and see which sounds best. The level and impedance setting will not hard your headphones. 

The Superconductor upgrade cable for ABYSS PHI is a big upgrade to the sound. Give it a try when you're ready. 

~ Mike
Yes, I am bad for your wallet...


----------



## brbattles

Hi,

I'm a die hard two channel guy looking to build a reference headphone listening system.  The WA33 is at the top of my list based on what I have read.  Has anyone on the forum had the opportunity to compare the stock WA33 to the Elite WA33 or have received feedback from those who have?  Is the improvement substantial or incremental?  Also, for being new to the headfi hobby, Is the prevailing view that $s are better spent upgrading the tubes on the stock model vs. purchasing the Elite model and/or upgrading headphones from say an HE1000v2 to the Susvara? 

Thanks in advance,

Battles


----------



## mahesvara

The gain in sound quality you would have from upgrading tubes would probably be more dramatic than going from regular to Elite WA33. If cost is no object to you, then may as well max out the WA33 with the Elite versions and all upgrade tubes. If you are patient enough and can attend RMAF this year, you may be able to audition both the regular version and the elite version. Both appeared at RMAF last year and I would guy they would again. Do check with Woo Audio though!


----------



## ufospls2

brbattles said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm a die hard two channel guy looking to build a reference headphone listening system.  The WA33 is at the top of my list based on what I have read.  Has anyone on the forum had the opportunity to compare the stock WA33 to the Elite WA33 or have received feedback from those who have?  Is the improvement substantial or incremental?  Also, for being new to the headfi hobby, Is the prevailing view that $s are better spent upgrading the tubes on the stock model vs. purchasing the Elite model and/or upgrading headphones from say an HE1000v2 to the Susvara?
> 
> ...



I know of two people who prefer the standard version to the EE, but I have heard neither so I can't personally comment. I would get the best headphones you can, and then worry about the source components


----------



## bfreedma

brbattles said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm a die hard two channel guy looking to build a reference headphone listening system.  The WA33 is at the top of my list based on what I have read.  Has anyone on the forum had the opportunity to compare the stock WA33 to the Elite WA33 or have received feedback from those who have?  Is the improvement substantial or incremental?  Also, for being new to the headfi hobby, Is the prevailing view that $s are better spent upgrading the tubes on the stock model vs. purchasing the Elite model and/or upgrading headphones from say an HE1000v2 to the Susvara?
> 
> ...




With the price range you're considering, it might be worthwhile to see if you can setup an individual demo at Woo and travel to their offices (or wherever they would be able to set one up for you) for something more focused and quieter than a meet.  Might even be an opportunity to try out some of the tube upgrades.

The expenditure may be worth the peace of mind knowing you made your choice based on first hand experience.  That's absolutely not a knock on anyone who's posted an opinion, but, IMO. unless you can correlate what you like with a second party's opinions based on multiple headphones/amps/dacs/etc discussions, it's hard to know if your preferences are the same as theirs.  Or if for you, the difference is enough to invest in the Elite version vs. a tube and headphone upgrade.


----------



## brbattles

Hi all,

Just one more question:  Has anyone had the opportunity to hear the WA33 vs. Hifiman's EF1000 amp on the Susvaras? Would love to hear your impressions and/or what you have heard from others who have had an opportunity to compare them.

Thanks again,
Battles


----------



## llamaluv

I'm looking for any insight on how the EML Mesh or EML Solids might fare with the Abyss Phi plugged into the WA33. And also what's their character like in general.

I found the stock tube complement (even after 150 hours) to be too soft bass-wise with the Phi (way too soft, actually). However I liked their light touch, nuance, and treble extension. 

I currently have the JJ 2A3-40's in there now along with the EML 274B Mesh rectifier, and it's really solid all the way around, and the Phis respond well to them, as do the rest of the headphones I've used. However, I think I'm missing some of the treble extension and micro-dynamic 'magic' I got from the stock tubes.

So I'd love to give the EML Mesh tubes a go based on what I've heard about them, but probably only if I could be fairly certain they'd power the Phi's well bass-wise...


----------



## cradon (Sep 6, 2018)

The Mesh power the Phi just fine on my Eddie Current Aficionado. I would say it depends on the sound of your amp and the direction you’re looking to take it in.
I think the following quote from Audio asylum sums up the differences very well.

“Meshies are resolving across most of the frequency range: nuanced, airy, with great depth and lovely treble. I did not find them to be lacking body, but they are more distant. Not as linear in the bass (in my system). Perhaps more mid to tail of note.

Sollid plates are robust, dynamic, very linear and balanced sounding. A closer presentation; more palpable. More traditionally HiFi through the upper mids and treble. Perhaps more front of note.

The solid plates are excellent all-rounders, but the meshies have some magic for the right system and music. I suspect that an amp built specifically for the meshies would be superior to an amp built specifically for solids... for me.”


----------



## llamaluv

Yeah... I think I may need to try them both.


----------



## joseph69

llamaluv said:


> Yeah... I think I may need to try them both.  [/QUOTEI'm not sure, but I think I mentioned to you that Jack Wu recommended the solid plate when I asked which would match well with the WA33.


----------



## llamaluv

Thanks, it sounds like the EML 2A3-S could be the wiser move based on my concerns for preserving the Abyss bass's punch and resolution.


----------



## hehaw77

andyschaub said:


> Yeah, independent of anything else, the Utopias and 009's work in very different ways, so they're very unlikely to sound the same at all; although, you *might* like both in different ways or you *might* not.
> 
> The closest I've heard dynamic headphones come to the 009's are the Fostex TH-900's, for some reason ... ?
> 
> ...





This is subjective I can't stand the HD 800 in all its forms it just sounds like junk to me. The utopia's sound so much more detailed and precise compared to those lumpy cans to me...


----------



## hehaw77

llamaluv said:


> I'm looking for a tube amp with enough grunt to do justice to the Abyss Phi (and possibly the Susvara in the future). It's a short list of candidates that fit that description. With that in mind, I brought my Abyss Phis to the local shop this morning and gave the WA33 and Egoista 845 a nice listen-to (my 2nd time with the latter).
> 
> I really took to the Woo and found it immediately very engaging. Soundstage, imaging, dynamics, resolving-ness, instrument separation -- all really satisfying, and easily a couple steps up from the tube amps I've had up to this point. To my ears it had an even, slightly warmer tilt to its tonality (w/ the stock tubes) that suites my preferences. Also, I found it to have a treble sweetness that was appealing that I could tell would grow on me. In the end, I didn't need to listen to the amp for long.
> 
> ...




Thanks for this I was looking into the 845 myself and the Pathos inpolear  and the wa33. I already listened to the little brother of the vista and did not like the sound signature with the focal utopia's. To harsh...  I then went and tested a lowly wa6 and preferred it to the more expensive vista... way more ... I was also looking into the Felix which focal recommends for the utopia's... but compared to this amp... I don't think they are in the same league though I think for the price point they are supposed to be excellent. So long story short I've settled on the wa33...


----------



## Thenewguy007

hehaw77 said:


> This is subjective I can't stand the HD 800 in all its forms it just sounds like junk to me. The utopia's sound so much more detailed and precise compared to those lumpy cans to me...



What amp & DAC did you pair the HD800 with?


----------



## hehaw77

blumk2 scaler combined with the chord Dave


----------



## Thenewguy007

hehaw77 said:


> blumk2 scaler combined with the chord Dave



I have never gotten the HD800 to sound good with any solid state amplifier, but with tube amps, it's a different beast. The thin, overly analytical & bass shy sound signature is gone when paired with the right tube amp.


----------



## andyschaub

hehaw77 said:


> This is subjective I can't stand the HD 800 in all its forms it just sounds like junk to me. The utopia's sound so much more detailed and precise compared to those lumpy cans to me...


The Utopias are definitely warmer sounding than the HD800’s in some ways. On the other hand, they cost at least 3X more. So, no offense intended at all, what would you expect?


----------



## andyschaub

Thenewguy007 said:


> I have never gotten the HD800 to sound good with any solid state amplifier, but with tube amps, it's a different beast. The thin, overly analytical & bass shy sound signature is gone when paired with the right tube amp.


My experience, too, most notably with the Woo WA22.


----------



## hehaw77

andyschaub said:


> The Utopias are definitely warmer sounding than the HD800’s in some ways. On the other hand, they cost at least 3X more. So, no offense intended at all, what would you expect?



Well not 3 times more... 2 times.... they are just a superior can...  I did listen to the new HD's can't recall there name... I like them more than the 800's... but still lacking in depth... mind you they do sound better with a stronger amp... the dealer I usually buy from did his best to convince me they were good headphones but I just gave the a little bit below average...


----------



## hehaw77

Thenewguy007 said:


> I have never gotten the HD800 to sound good with any solid state amplifier, but with tube amps, it's a different beast. The thin, overly analytical & bass shy sound signature is gone when paired with the right tube amp.



Well I see that as a fault a good headphone should be able to at least sound decent on various setups... .. I mean the HD 800's aren't the only headphone that made me want to plug my ears.. the focal elear I think is also junk... pukey warm...


----------



## hehaw77

andyschaub said:


> My experience, too, most notably with the Woo WA22.



Well I'll soon have a wa33 and no doubt I'll have some people still trying to convince me about the 800's so still willing to try them out on the tube amp... but I'm now very accustomed to the Utopia sound signature... so I don't know...  I'm still open to convincing....  I have demoed the 800's so many times... ... in fact I've demoed lots of planars "expensive ones" and have found them lacking... yes I know the 800's are not planars just saying...  the Utopia's are so detailed and revealing which is what I like... beautiful....


----------



## matthewhypolite

hehaw77 said:


> Well I'll soon have a wa33 and no doubt I'll have some people still trying to convince me about the 800's so still willing to try them out on the tube amp... but I'm now very accustomed to the Utopia sound signature... so I don't know...  I'm still open to convincing....  I have demoed the 800's so many times... ... in fact I've demoed lots of planars "expensive ones" and have found them lacking... yes I know the 800's are not planars just saying...  the Utopia's are so detailed and revealing which is what I like... beautiful....



Haven't been keeping up with the thread but jsut saw this message. I have both utopia and phi cc and I can tell you the abyss phi cc outclassed the Utopia on the WA33 with upgraded tubes. 

Utopia is still good, but the abyss is so much better to my ears. In so much so that I don't take the abyss off of the WA33 anymore, utopia is on my solid state amp for youtube, gaming, etc. I Pmuch just listen to wa33/abyss now.


----------



## joseph69

hehaw77 said:


> Well I'll soon have a wa33 and no doubt I'll have some people still trying to convince me about the 800's so still willing to try them out on the tube amp... but I'm now very accustomed to the Utopia sound signature... so I don't know...  I'm still open to convincing....  I have demoed the 800's so many times... ... in fact I've demoed lots of planars "expensive ones" and have found them lacking... yes I know the 800's are not planars just saying...  the Utopia's are so detailed and revealing which is what I like... beautiful....


I don't know if you've ever heard the Utopia/WA33 pairing, but if not, you're in for quite an amazing experience. The Utopia scales excellent with the WA33.

I had the 800S and found them lacking in bass & punch, otherwise I did enjoy them via my GS-XMk2, but found I wasn't reaching for them after receiving my Utopia, so I sold the 800S. After receiving my WA33 w/ upgraded tubes I regretted selling my 800S because I do believe the WA33 would have taken the 800S to a totally different level. I do plan on borrowing the 800S from The Cable Company to hear if what I believe is true.

Please stop using the word "junk" to describe headphones that are not for your taste...this doesn't make them "junk". 
Everything comes into play when listening to headphones, so you may have good 'synergy' with your system for some headphone, and others maybe not so much. 

Congratulations on you WA33, and enjoy it.


----------



## hehaw77

matthewhypolite said:


> Haven't been keeping up with the thread but jsut saw this message. I have both utopia and phi cc and I can tell you the abyss phi cc outclassed the Utopia on the WA33 with upgraded tubes.
> 
> Utopia is still good, but the abyss is so much better to my ears. In so much so that I don't take the abyss off of the WA33 anymore, utopia is on my solid state amp for youtube, gaming, etc. I Pmuch just listen to wa33/abyss now.




Everyone has there preference... I listened to the phi and didn't like it... at all....  not enough detail for me...


----------



## Mikey99 (Nov 27, 2018)

matthewhypolite said:


> Haven't been keeping up with the thread but jsut saw this message. I have both utopia and phi cc and I can tell you the abyss phi cc outclassed the Utopia on the WA33 with upgraded tubes.
> 
> Utopia is still good, but the abyss is so much better to my ears. In so much so that I don't take the abyss off of the WA33 anymore, utopia is on my solid state amp for youtube, gaming, etc. I Pmuch just listen to wa33/abyss now.


I preferred the Abyss Phi to the Utopia on a variety of solid state amps. I would love to hear the Abyss on a tube amp, and the WA33 specifically. I just need to find one somewhere nearby to audition.


----------



## hehaw77

joseph69 said:


> I don't know if you've ever heard the Utopia/WA33 pairing, but if not, you're in for quite an amazing experience. The Utopia scales excellent with the WA33.
> 
> I had the 800S and found them lacking in bass & punch, otherwise I did enjoy them via my GS-XMk2, but found I wasn't reaching for them after receiving my Utopia, so I sold the 800S. After receiving my WA33 w/ upgraded tubes I regretted selling my 800S because I do believe the WA33 would have taken the 800S to a totally different level. I do plan on borrowing the 800S from The Cable Company to hear if what I believe is true.
> 
> ...




Source and what your giving the WA33 are important to what you will hear... including cables, power cords etc..  I think my setup is top notch...so not concerned on that front...


----------



## andyschaub

Mikey99 said:


> I preferred the Abyss Phi to the Utopia on a variety of solid state amps. I would love to hear the Abyss on a tube amp, and the WA33 specifically. I just need to find one somewhere nearby to audition.


I tried the Abyss and the Utopias with both a Cavali Liquid Gold and the Woo WA5-LE with tube upgrades, and in both cases the Utopias sounded much more like music to me and had vastly better build quality, but YMMV.


----------



## joseph69

I preferred the Utopia as well to the Abyss Phi with my WA33 w/upgraded tubes, but the build quality & adjustability of the Abyss Phi is second to none too me. I'll likely revisit them in the future, though.


----------



## hehaw77

joseph69 said:


> I don't know if you've ever heard the Utopia/WA33 pairing, but if not, you're in for quite an amazing experience. The Utopia scales excellent with the WA33.
> 
> I had the 800S and found them lacking in bass & punch, otherwise I did enjoy them via my GS-XMk2, but found I wasn't reaching for them after receiving my Utopia, so I sold the 800S. After receiving my WA33 w/ upgraded tubes I regretted selling my 800S because I do believe the WA33 would have taken the 800S to a totally different level. I do plan on borrowing the 800S from The Cable Company to hear if what I believe is true.
> 
> ...




yeah hopefully it comes by end of this week...


----------



## hehaw77

andyschaub said:


> I tried the Abyss and the Utopias with both a Cavali Liquid Gold and the Woo WA5-LE with tube upgrades, and in both cases the Utopias sounded much more like music to me and had vastly better build quality, but YMMV.



I just can't get into planars... I've tried to like them.... but yuk... so far...


----------



## andyschaub

I’ve tried planers and electrostatics, am very fond of Stax; however, my two current favorite headphones are the Fostex TH-900 and the Mr. Speakers Ethers. They both just sound so musical and natural. The Fostex are dynamic / moving coil and the Ethers are very fine planars.


----------



## hehaw77

I've never tried electrostatics; I guess I should demo them with my local dealer...


----------



## hehaw77

joseph69 said:


> I preferred the Utopia as well to the Abyss Phi with my WA33 w/upgraded tubes, but the build quality & adjustability of the Abyss Phi is second to none too me. I'll likely revisit them in the future, though.



hmm ok.. when I look at it... I find it looks funny not much thought went into design.....


----------



## hehaw77

k... these guys were making fun of the wa33's price..  I actually know this guy.. and I was in his house and listened to the Stellaris... about 7k US...  its nice ... I found it a little to airy for my tastes... nothing making me jump off my seat.. it does basically have no noise and it has quality parts....but you have to wait 10 months for the guy to build it for you. Which would never sit well with me...  I've never listened to the WA234 so I can't comment but I have listened to the wa6 which I found quite nice.. not on par with the Stellaris but for the price point quite nice..  they also mentioned some other obscure maker.. Eddie current... never heard of them till today. You do get what you pay for in audio.

Now comparisons have been made between the WA33 and the Vista units which are top notch ; haven't seen the Stellaris go head to head with those. The Stellaris is "ugly" design wise. Now this Paulie guy could afford a wa33 ... but he did end up selling his stellaris...so I guess it wasn't that thrilling if it was so amazing... sound wise... why would he have sold it.. he doesn't need the money... that's for sure. Anyways the ones I researched where the Stellaris, Vista 845, 235a(I think that's its name) I actually listened to the smaller vista... in short didn't like it... I also listened to the Stellaris... decent.. but nothing that would make me want to buy it.

My WA33 arrives tomorrow and am looking forward to hearing it. Usually when people make fun of something they can't afford its called envy... I think....






Maybe because no thread is needed, at least right now. It's pre-release, so I can't imagine many if any people have heard it around these parts. *Plus it's a Woo,* plus it's $8k.
Haha.

Honestly, I haven't heard it, but if Woo's other offerings are any indication it isn't competition for the Studio or Stellaris. Heck, the WA234 isn't on par with the Studio or Stellaris to my ears.


bigfatpaulie, May 15, 2017


----------



## Thenewguy007

hehaw77 said:


> I've never listened to the WA234 so I can't comment but I have listened to the wa6 which I found quite nice..



That's quite a price point difference you are going from.


----------



## hehaw77

Thenewguy007 said:


> That's quite a price point difference you are going from.



lol... don't forget I've also listened to the Vista and prefered the wa6 over it... that's also quite a price difference...  so sometimes its not about price. I've also listened to a bunch of other tube amps; which I can't recall all the brands some were massive and some smaller. Ironically I've prefered the sound of the smaller ones for the most part. 

I'll have to ask the local dealer here which brands I was listening to....


----------



## hehaw77

My WA33 elite arrives later in the afternoon today. I'm going to be getting some 7N OCC silver XLR's interconnects so I can attach my chord DAVE to it. The Dave is the last link in quite a chain before it gets to the WA33 so looking forward to the sound.....


----------



## hehaw77

Here's the link to the WA33 review on the Audio Bacon site. He's pretty much reviewed almost every product I own. His comments on the elite down in the notes helped seal my decision to buy it... vs the regular.... 


https://audiobacon.net/2017/12/29/woo-audio-wa33-fully-balanced-headphone-pre-amplifier-review/


----------



## Thenewguy007

hehaw77 said:


> lol... don't forget I've also listened to the Vista and prefered the wa6 over it... that's also quite a price difference...  so sometimes its not about price. I've also listened to a bunch of other tube amps; which I can't recall all the brands some were massive and some smaller. Ironically I've prefered the sound of the smaller ones for the most part.



You mean the Viva Egoista 845 tube amp?


----------



## joseph69

hehaw77 said:


> My WA33 elite arrives later in the afternoon today.


Initial impressions?


----------



## hehaw77 (Dec 1, 2018)

joseph69 said:


> Initial impressions?




ok ... when I first listened the woo WA6 I was impressed what I heard considering its size etc... this WA33 is x100 what that amp is.

Bass is immense, sound stage is extremely large the micro details that the DAVE dac has are not as pronounced; they are there but the emphasis is more wholistic... a fancy way of saying it presents the whole picture better. Of course the power of this thing is ridiculous... you could literally if you wanted to pound your brain into pieces...  I do like it better than the Vista.

Is it worth the money.. if you can afford it yes. I didn't buy it because of the looks that's on the bottom of the list for me... I wanted to enhance what I already have. It's definitely tuby in its presentation. So initial thoughts tons of power, if you have good quality headphones you can take advantage of that power and the music won't distort which is a definite plus.

Guitar, vocals, bass are amazing as they should be for a amp this price. I'm using the Utopia's I also have the clear's.

However I think I'm beginning to understand why people like planars ... they are suited for tubes... I went to a local shop today and listened to the hifiman 1000 v1 on the dave dac and nearly threw up. I put it in the wa6 and I was impressed... so my next headphone will be a planar paired with the wa33.

My setup is somewhat extreme and I'll share it some other time... I'm not saying that to cause anyone grief and for one up purposes... I'm just used to very high quality sound and when I don't hear it I know it.

Mind you this is on stock tubes... I know it gets better with higher quality tubes...  not going there yet...

Oh one last thing I should mention which most people here that own one are aware of it gets very hot.. I mean super hot... also...   its a complete power pig...  easily sucking over 200W


----------



## hehaw77

Thenewguy007 said:


> You mean the Viva Egoista 845 tube amp?



the smaller one...


----------



## joseph69

hehaw77 said:


> Bass is immense, sound stage is extremely large the micro details that the DAVE dac has are not as pronounced; they are there but the emphasis is more wholistic... a fancy way of saying it presents the whole picture better. Of course the power of this thing is ridiculous... you could literally if you wanted to pound your brain into pieces.


These were my exact immediate impressions as well... 
I was simply blown away by the sound of the WA33 with my Utopia. It took the Utopia to an entirely different level I could never have imagined. 
I also recently purchased the HE1000V2 and find the same experience pairing them with the WA33.


----------



## hehaw77

joseph69 said:


> These were my exact immediate impressions as well...
> I was simply blown away by the sound of the WA33 with my Utopia. It took the Utopia to an entirely different level I could never have imagined.
> I also recently purchased the HE1000V2 and find the same experience pairing them with the WA33.



Well I've dived into the world of planars and also bought an he1000 and like the way it sounds with this amp... my setup is a little elaborate some of my friends think I'm crazy but here goes:

Chord Mk2 blue with valhalla 2 interconnects going to the Chord Dave
Sotm stack USB ultra with its own sb500 power supply
Sotm World clock with its own sb500 power supply with 50ohm cable to the ultra
7N dc cables
Valhalla 2 usb from Innuos zenith mk2 to the sotm stack
Valhalla 2 usb from the stack to the MK 2 blu
2 xlr 7N occ silver interconnects from the Dave to the WA33
7N silver power cords going to the innuos and Mk2 blu
The rest of the equipment with less loss power cords
Powered with :
wall power going to audio sensibility power distribution block
from there to the Torus conditioner
from there to the PS Audio direct stream 12

I'm going to be buying a vibration block for the WA33 its quite sensitive to its surroundings... so this will help
with any noise issues or humming...    
oh headphones: utopia, clear, and now the he1000 which goes very very well with the WA33...


----------



## dawktah2

I've been following this thread for a while and I'm ecstatic to hear so many great impressions.  Until there is a 3ES thread I'll be following this one.   I hope I can hear both the WA33 and the 3ES at London CanJam


----------



## joseph69

hehaw77 said:


> "my setup is a little elaborate some of my friends think I'm crazy"


They just don't understand.


----------



## hehaw77

joseph69 said:


> They just don't understand.



LOL....   sometimes neither do I....


----------



## hehaw77

dawktah2 said:


> I've been following this thread for a while and I'm ecstatic to hear so many great impressions.  Until there is a 3ES thread I'll be following this one.   I hope I can hear both the WA33 and the 3ES at London CanJam



Never heard of the 3ES get ; get on the boat WA33...


----------



## hehaw77

I think I posted this before but again... for those of you debating between headphone amps... I debated between the Vista series 8 and 2 hundred, Stellaris, WA5, WA33, Feliks, some russian company can't recall their name, various others I've listened to at local dealers... so many brands...  I settled on the WA33 because I like the Woo signature; that's my personal taste I have a friend that calls them various names... who preferred the Stellaris.. I have very limited time with it. To me the Stellaris sounds more like a solid state amp; nice but for me boring... There just something about the woo signature that I like...  gritty, tubey, massive bass, soundstage, its narly... lol...  if I want prim and proper Stellaris; but I don't want that.... the Vista's are beautiful monsters... only listened to the 2 series... very detailed again sounds more like a solid state... If I'm buying a tube amp I WANT TUBE....


----------



## joseph69

hehaw77 said:


> Never heard of the 3ES get ; get on the boat WA33...


Here is the 3ES.


----------



## hehaw77

joseph69 said:


> Here is the 3ES.




ah ok electro... I've heard some electro... similar to the utopia's.... is signature... but tube electro... haven't heard that....


----------



## musicman59

hehaw77 said:


> ok ... when I first listened the woo WA6 I was impressed what I heard considering its size etc... this WA33 is x100 what that amp is.
> 
> Bass is immense, sound stage is extremely large the micro details that the DAVE dac has are not as pronounced; they are there but the emphasis is more wholistic... a fancy way of saying it presents the whole picture better. Of course the power of this thing is ridiculous... you could literally if you wanted to pound your brain into pieces...  I do like it better than the Vista.
> 
> ...



Check out the Final D8000. I own the HE1000 v1 and were my favorite planar until I heard the D8000 in a quality and powerful amplifier.


----------



## llamaluv

Just wanted to mention I posted some thoughts on the WA33 + Susvara combination in the Susvara thread.


----------



## hehaw77 (Dec 2, 2018)

musicman59 said:


> Check out the Final D8000. I own the HE1000 v1 and were my favorite planar until I heard the D8000 in a quality and powerful amplifier.



I just got the he1000's today.. so I'm happy with them..and I must say I got them for a really good price... . I won't be making any more major purchases this year... just the sound board... but that's not a major purchase ... plus not such a good review here...  sound amazing ; but who wants to wear a helmet... 

https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/18/17474230/final-d8000-review-planar-magnetic-headphones


----------



## dawktah2 (Dec 2, 2018)

hehaw77 said:


> ah ok electro... I've heard some electro... similar to the utopia's.... is signature... but tube electro... haven't heard that....



I've never heard any Stax or the Mr. Speakers VOCE. I currently have the Chord Qutest and the plan to get a WA33. I'm thinking of selling it and getting a TT 2. Western Electric is reintroducing the 300B which the 3ES uses, about the only reason I'm weighing the two.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hug...official-thread.879425/page-205#post-14634672


----------



## hehaw77

dawktah2 said:


> I've never heard any Stax or the Mr. Speakers VOCE. I currently have the Chord Qutest and the plan to get a WA33. I'm thinking of selling it and getting a TT 2. Western Electric is reintroducing the 300B which the 3ES uses, about the only reason I'm weighing the two.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hug...official-thread.879425/page-205#post-14634672




Hmm... why not get the the Mscaler or Blu MK2  much better than the TT2. The Mscaler gives you the same + 1million taps that the blu does for much cheaper price point...


----------



## m17xr2b

hehaw77 said:


> To me the Stellaris sounds more like a solid state amp; nice but for me boring


Wow, this is the most shocking statement I've read on HF.


----------



## dawktah2

hehaw77 said:


> Hmm... why not get the the Mscaler or Blu MK2  much better than the TT2. The Mscaler gives you the same + 1million taps that the blu does for much cheaper price point...



I am in need of a new headphone amp.  Cost of WA33 exceeds TT 2 less recovery of expense of Qutest. I have also given up on buying sight unheard. Will be able to hear TT 2 first.  Probably won't hear WA33 until CanJam London.


----------



## musicman59

dawktah2 said:


> I've never heard any Stax or the Mr. Speakers VOCE. I currently have the Chord Qutest and the plan to get a WA33. I'm thinking of selling it and getting a TT 2. Western Electric is reintroducing the 300B which the 3ES uses, about the only reason I'm weighing the two.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hug...official-thread.879425/page-205#post-14634672



I own the SR-009 and SR-007 MkII with a RSA A-10 Thunderbolt so I am very familiar with the SR-009 sound. I also own the Utopia with the Kimber Axios Silver (AG) cable. I also used to own a WA5-LE for many years so I am very familiar wit the Woo sound.

At Axpona I had the chance to listen to the 3ES/SR-009 combo as well as the WA33 Elite/Utopia(Axios AG) combo. In my opinion the WA33 with the Utopia using the Axios AG cable produced a better sound. It was as clear and detailed as the Electrostatic system but more dynamic and with much better bass. My first thought about the system was "Why do I need an electrostatic rig having this?".

I have my eyes on a WA33 Elite as my next and probably last purchase.


----------



## joseph69

musicman59 said:


> My first thought about the system was "Why do I need an electrostatic rig having this?".


Couldn't agree more, only my experience being with the 009/BHSE and the WireWorld Nano-Platinum Eclipse with the Utopia, and I'll be receiving the Lazuli reference tomorrow. Since having the Utopia/WA33 (Standard Edition) I've sold off all of my electrostatic gear and haven't looked back.


----------



## hehaw77

dawktah2 said:


> I am in need of a new headphone amp.  Cost of WA33 exceeds TT 2 less recovery of expense of Qutest. I have also given up on buying sight unheard. Will be able to hear TT 2 first.  Probably won't hear WA33 until CanJam London.



Hmmm not mentioning the WA33 I realize not everyone can afford it... TT2 as a new headphone amp... hmm... no comment... its something not on my radar....


----------



## hehaw77

musicman59 said:


> I own the SR-009 and SR-007 MkII with a RSA A-10 Thunderbolt so I am very familiar with the SR-009 sound. I also own the Utopia with the Kimber Axios Silver (AG) cable. I also used to own a WA5-LE for many years so I am very familiar wit the Woo sound.
> 
> At Axpona I had the chance to listen to the 3ES/SR-009 combo as well as the WA33 Elite/Utopia(Axios AG) combo. In my opinion the WA33 with the Utopia using the Axios AG cable produced a better sound. It was as clear and detailed as the Electrostatic system but more dynamic and with much better bass. My first thought about the system was "Why do I need an electrostatic rig having this?".
> 
> I have my eyes on a WA33 Elite as my next and probably last purchase.



It's a good amp no doubt about it... just be aware not to put routers or other electronics near it that are not high quality eg... routers as it interferes with the amp... also a sound board is recommended...


----------



## hehaw77

joseph69 said:


> Couldn't agree more, only my experience being with the 009/BHSE and the WireWorld Nano-Platinum Eclipse with the Utopia, and I'll be receiving the Lazuli reference tomorrow. Since having the Utopia/WA33 (Standard Edition) I've sold off all of my electrostatic gear and haven't looked back.



yeah its such a powerful combination.... but what makes it better is you can really turn up the volume and not get distortion....


----------



## joseph69

hehaw77 said:


> yeah its such a powerful combination.... but what makes it better is you can really turn up the volume and not get distortion....


As well as being limited to the small amount of electrstats compared to dynamic/planar headphones, which is a huge plus!


----------



## musicman59

joseph69 said:


> Couldn't agree more, only my experience being with the 009/BHSE and the WireWorld Nano-Platinum Eclipse with the Utopia, and I'll be receiving the Lazuli reference tomorrow. Since having the Utopia/WA33 (Standard Edition) I've sold off all of my electrostatic gear and haven't looked back.



I used to own the Lazuli Reference and the Nordost Heimdall II (Which I am selling) but after the Axios AG they were never used. Don't get me wrong but are very good cables and a huge improvement IMO to the stock but to me the Axios is better but at a much higher cost.
I also own the WW Platinum Nano Eclipse but that is used with my Z1R with great results.


----------



## hehaw77

musicman59 said:


> I used to own the Lazuli Reference and the Nordost Heimdall II (Which I am selling) but after the Axios AG they were never used. Don't get me wrong but are very good cables and a huge improvement IMO to the stock but to me the Axios is better but at a much higher cost.
> I also own the WW Platinum Nano Eclipse but that is used with my Z1R with great results.



I went with the Valhalla 2 series... I only compared it to the heimdall 2 I used to own myself.. and its musicality is exquisite. Never heard of the Axios...  As for USB ... the Valhalla 2 usb is by far the best on the planet thus far...


----------



## musicman59

hehaw77 said:


> I went with the Valhalla 2 series... I only compared it to the heimdall 2 I used to own myself.. and its musicality is exquisite. Never heard of the Axios...  As for USB ... the Valhalla 2 usb is by far the best on the planet thus far...


I did not know there is a Valhalla headphones cable..... nice!


----------



## hehaw77

musicman59 said:


> I did not know there is a Valhalla headphones cable..... nice!



oops sorry... no thought you were talking interconnects... headphone cable...  I use the heimdall 2....  but will be getting a 7N silver one later... thing is for me... I have 3 headphones will all have different plugs which means 3 seperate purchases...


----------



## musicman59

hehaw77 said:


> oops sorry... no thought you were talking interconnects... headphone cable...  I use the heimdall 2....  but will be getting a 7N silver one later... thing is for me... I have 3 headphones will all have different plugs which means 3 seperate purchases...


I hear you... I have 6 different connectors among my headphones collection!


----------



## hehaw77

musicman59 said:


> I hear you... I have 6 different connectors among my headphones collection!



Go figure even among the same brands they use different plugs...


----------



## hehaw77

One thing I want to make clear to people considering the WA33. Is using high efficiency headphones with this amp.

You might hear a slight hum in the background. I'm bringing this out because of how this amp is constructed. The power supply is right underneath it. Could Woo have invested in getting rid of this issue... yes... it doesn't affect playback etc.. I spoke with some people familiar with this issue and there is a board you can purchase which gets rid of the hum...  There is no noise at all with a planar..  so just be aware of this issue ...  its not large but its there if you listen for it..


----------



## hehaw77

I will let you guys know about my results with the boards... should be arriving tomorrow...


----------



## HiFiGuy528

hehaw77 said:


> It's a good amp no doubt about it... just be aware not to put routers or other electronics near it that are not high quality eg... routers as it interferes with the amp... also a sound board is recommended...



interference with WiFi routers is not exclusive to audio components. Here's one example from recent memory.  

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...0/lg-ultrafine-5k-monitor-router-issues-apple


----------



## musicman59

hehaw77 said:


> One thing I want to make clear to people considering the WA33. Is using high efficiency headphones with this amp.
> 
> You might hear a slight hum in the background. I'm bringing this out because of how this amp is constructed. The power supply is right underneath it. Could Woo have invested in getting rid of this issue... yes... it doesn't affect playback etc.. I spoke with some people familiar with this issue and there is a board you can purchase which gets rid of the hum...  There is no noise at all with a planar..  so just be aware of this issue ...  its not large but its there if you listen for it..


Can you tell us some of the headphones you think/know will have this issue? I am asking because I consider the Utopia to be fairly efficient and I did not notice any hum with them.

Also, can you provide more information on that board you are referring?


----------



## hehaw77 (Dec 4, 2018)

musicman59 said:


> Can you tell us some of the headphones you think/know will have this issue? I am asking because I consider the Utopia to be fairly efficient and I did not notice any hum with them.
> 
> Also, can you provide more information on that board you are referring?



Utopia does have the hum on the WA33... I have them and hear it...  zero on the hifiman1000's... I was also discussing the possibility of the stock rectifier causing the issue some have told me that by replacing it ; it eliminated a lot of the noise.... I'll let you guys know more about the board once I get it. Hopefully tomorrow.

I have some PM's about it as it was recommended to me by a user who was having the noise issue with the wa22. Once he used it, it disappeared.... just be patient...
let me who has spent the money on them tell you if they are worth it... personally I think they will work....


----------



## joseph69

hehaw77 said:


> I have them and hear it... zero on the hifiman1000's


Agreed.


----------



## waterking (Dec 5, 2018)

When you say "board" are you referring to an isolation board or something else? Once I isolated mine on some iso-acoustic pucks and then upgraded my tubes(and used some good ol' "finger-thumping" on one of the tube bases) the hum was reduced by about 90%. It is still there but not near as much.

Love the amp!


----------



## hehaw77

waterking said:


> When you say "board" are you referring to an isolation board or something else? Once I isolated mine on some iso-acoustic pucks and then upgraded my tubes(and used some good ol' "finger-thumping" on one of the tube bases) the hum was reduced by about 90%. It is still there but not near as much.
> 
> Love the amp!



Yes isolation board... tell me about those pucks...    for the rest the boards have made a minimal difference.... so I don't recommend them...


----------



## waterking

Isoacoustics can tell you better than I can at their .com location. My hum was pretty vocal and my LCD's carried it as well and I no longer have a pair of the 1000's to test.


----------



## andyschaub

hehaw77 said:


> One thing I want to make clear to people considering the WA33. Is using high efficiency headphones with this amp.
> 
> You might hear a slight hum in the background. I'm bringing this out because of how this amp is constructed. The power supply is right underneath it. Could Woo have invested in getting rid of this issue... yes... it doesn't affect playback etc.. I spoke with some people familiar with this issue and there is a board you can purchase which gets rid of the hum...  There is no noise at all with a planar..  so just be aware of this issue ...  its not large but its there if you listen for it..



Sorry, but what kind of “board” can one get that would reduce the hum? I would think that swapping the tubes could make a difference. My thought would be that—with an amp like this—you would want to use the very best headphones that you can and not headphones so efficient/sensitive that they hum because of excessive relative gain, right? Thx.


----------



## waterking

I agree that a bit taller distance between the power supply and the amp would have helped. In order to stack my HeadAmp GS-X-MK2 system I use the pucks between the two pieces and the distance it produces is just the right amount to stop most, if not all, of any noise floor issues when the pieces are stacked directly on top of each other.


----------



## joseph69

I also have my GS-X stacked and only had a hum when I used H gain.
For this, I ordered a custom cut piece of MU-metal (recommended by another Head-Fi member) and drilled 3 holes in it where the footers are located on the amp, and placed the MU-metal on the underside, then replaced the footers to secure it to the amp. This eliminated the noise 100%...there is absolutely no noise whatsoever on H gain...dead silent. I'm going to try the Iso Pucks on the WA33, if I have no luck with them, I may look into a way to mount a custom cut piece of MU-metal on the bottom side of the amp of the WA33, just like the GS-X.


----------



## waterking

Sounds like a great idea. Thanks. In my case the pucks did the job but yours sounds like a more "hidden" solution.


----------



## Thenewguy007

joseph69 said:


> I also have my GS-X stacked and only had a hum when I used H gain.
> For this, I ordered a custom cut piece of MU-metal (recommended by another Head-Fi member) and drilled 3 holes in it where the footers are located on the amp, and placed the MU-metal on the underside, then replaced the footers to secure it to the amp. This eliminated the noise 100%...there is absolutely no noise whatsoever on H gain...dead silent. I'm going to try the Iso Pucks on the WA33, if I have no luck with them, I may look into a way to mount a custom cut piece of MU-metal on the bottom side of the amp of the WA33, just like the GS-X.



Can you link the type of MU-metal you bought & where you got it from?


----------



## joseph69

Thenewguy007 said:


> Can you link the type of MU-metal you bought & where you got it from?


The MuShield Company .030 thickness. 
What amp are you considering useing this with? 
I don't see your current gear in your profile, only sold gear?


----------



## hehaw77

andyschaub said:


> Sorry, but what kind of “board” can one get that would reduce the hum? I would think that swapping the tubes could make a difference. My thought would be that—with an amp like this—you would want to use the very best headphones that you can and not headphones so efficient/sensitive that they hum because of excessive relative gain, right? Thx.



I forgot the name of the material they use in the board... they told me today but I forgot the name... it does reduce noise...


----------



## hehaw77

Thenewguy007 said:


> Can you link the type of MU-metal you bought & where you got it from?



I bought the pucks today and installed them on top of the board. Again a small improvement but this Mu metal sounds very promising.... as what's causing the noise in the WA33 is the transformer(s) inside the power supply. This noise travels up to the tubes... if the tubes are high quality they can absorb some of the noise but not all of it... 

So the boards and combined with the pucks (I bought 4) just an ok improvement..... the Mu thing will be my next move... I just want to make sure that the magnetic shielding isn't going to have adverse affects on the transformers long term... I'll call these guys up tomorrow..

Unfortunately 2 of my 2a3's went blue today no idea way but they did...  so my first thing tomorrow is to replace those... right now my WA33 sounds really pingy with these faulty tubes... I"ve aske Woo to replace them.... about 2 weeks old...


----------



## andyschaub

hehaw77 said:


> I bought the pucks today and installed them on top of the board. Again a small improvement but this Mu metal sounds very promising.... as what's causing the noise in the WA33 is the transformer(s) inside the power supply. This noise travels up to the tubes... if the tubes are high quality they can absorb some of the noise but not all of it...
> 
> So the boards and combined with the pucks (I bought 4) just an ok improvement..... the Mu thing will be my next move... I just want to make sure that the magnetic shielding isn't going to have adverse affects on the transformers long term... I'll call these guys up tomorrow..
> 
> Unfortunately 2 of my 2a3's went blue today no idea way but they did...  so my first thing tomorrow is to replace those... right now my WA33 sounds really pingy with these faulty tubes... I"ve aske Woo to replace them.... about 2 weeks old...



Mu metal only blocks natural magnetism. The kind of RFI you would get in an amp like the WA33 would be *electro*magnetism, which can be blocked by any metal but copper is often considered the best. I only mention this because real Mu metal is very, very expensive; but copper is not. Cheers.


----------



## dawktah2

hehaw77 said:


> I forgot the name of the material they use in the board... they told me today but I forgot the name... it does reduce noise...



Vibranium, couldn't resist


----------



## hehaw77

andyschaub said:


> Mu metal only blocks natural magnetism. The kind of RFI you would get in an amp like the WA33 would be *electro*magnetism, which can be blocked by any metal but copper is often considered the best. I only mention this because real Mu metal is very, very expensive; but copper is not. Cheers.



No... it also blocks electro magnentism... go to there site... its used extensively...


----------



## hehaw77

dawktah2 said:


> Vibranium, couldn't resist



no nice try


----------



## andyschaub (Dec 6, 2018)

hehaw77 said:


> No... it also blocks electro magnentism... go to there site... its used extensively...



Sorry. What I meant but did not express well is that natural magnetism can only be blocked by a Mu metal alloy that has been annelead after shaping. Electromagnetism can be blocked by any metal and, in all cases, the thickness of the plate/board does add to the damping effect on the magnetic field. So you could block electromagnetic interference with something as inexpensive as copper or even, honestly, a few layers of aluminum foil. You’re basically building a partial Faraday cage. Plus, the copper / foil costs a whole lot less than Mu metal all other things being equal. That’s all.  It helps if you use a (real) RFI meter to measure the EM field, too.


----------



## hehaw77

andyschaub said:


> Sorry. What I meant but did not express well is that natural magnetism can only be blocked by a Mu metal alloy that has been annelead after shaping. Electromagnetism can be blocked by any metal and, in all cases, the thickness of the plate/board does add to the damping effect on the magnetic field. So you could block electromagnetic interference with something as inexpensive as copper or even, honestly, a few layers of aluminum foil. You’re basically building a partial Faraday cage. Plus, the copper / foil costs a whole lot less than Mu metal all other things being equal. That’s all.  It helps if you use a (real) RFI meter to measure the EM field, too.



Yeah but Mu metal sounds a lot cooler and I don't know of anyone selling annealed copper...


----------



## andyschaub

hehaw77 said:


> Yeah but Mu metal sounds a lot cooler and I don't know of anyone selling annealed copper...


Only Mu metal needs to be annealed (heated then cooled without being shaped again) in this context because it has a dense molecular structure that gets “disturbed” by any and all metal work. No other metals that I know of need to be annealed after shaping to block electromagnetism.


----------



## hehaw77

andyschaub said:


> Only Mu metal needs to be annealed (heated then cooled without being shaped again) in this context because it has a dense molecular structure that gets “disturbed” by any and all metal work. No other metals that I know of need to be annealed after shaping to block electromagnetism.



Hmm.. so your saying the aluminum foil I have in the house will do the trick placed properly?


----------



## andyschaub

hehaw77 said:


> Hmm.. so your saying the aluminum foil I have in the house will do the trick placed properly?


It should / could, but you might need to use more than a few layers of it and possibly solder a ground wire to it and connect that to a “drain” ground post of some kind (or not). Please remember that aluminum as all metals conducts electricity. Plus, if the Mu metal is already cut to size with installation instructions and is not too terribly expensive, it might not be worth messing around with the aluminum foil because it’s not that great a shield compared to copper and (yikes!) silver and, yep, Mu metal.


----------



## Thenewguy007

It should be noted, the noise maybe coming from your source.

A lot of DAC's themselves internally emit EMI/RFI & transfer that to the amp.


----------



## waterking

My hum was there with the inputs unplugged.


----------



## waterking

Had some problems with my stock tubes. Upgraded and it helped quite a bit.


----------



## andyschaub

waterking said:


> My hum was there with the inputs unplugged.


It’s not unusual for some circuits to hum when there is no interconnect cable attached because the cable itself MAY be the only way that the amp is truly grounded, though, yep, there can be many other sources of hum.


----------



## joseph69

hehaw77 said:


> I bought the pucks today and installed them on top of the board. Again a small improvement but this Mu metal sounds very promising.... as what's causing the noise in the WA33 is the transformer(s) inside the power supply. This noise travels up to the tubes... if the tubes are high quality they can absorb some of the noise but not all of it...
> 
> So the boards and combined with the pucks (I bought 4) just an ok improvement..... the Mu thing will be my next move... I just want to make sure that the magnetic shielding isn't going to have adverse affects on the transformers long term... I'll call these guys up tomorrow..


I received my ISO Pucks this evening as well, and fortunately, they're going back because I found the issue with my WA33. It's not the transformers or a ground loop, or any of my tubes or upstream gear...it's the bottom cover of the amplifier unit (not the PSU unit) vibrating and causing my WA33 to audibly hum/buzz, traveling through my tubes into my dynamic drivers. I've never had an issue with driver noise using my planars. I applied even upward pressure along the bottom cover of the amplifier, and sure enough the amp is dead silent, and I only had a very faint noise through my dynamic drivers, which is normal for effiicient dynamic headphone drivers with the WA33.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Maybe some Dynamat extreme can fix the vibrating?


----------



## hehaw77

Thenewguy007 said:


> It should be noted, the noise maybe coming from your source.
> 
> A lot of DAC's themselves internally emit EMI/RFI & transfer that to the amp.



It's not.....


----------



## hehaw77

joseph69 said:


> I received my ISO Pucks this evening as well, and fortunately, they're going back because I found the issue with my WA33. It's not the transformers or a ground loop, or any of my tubes or upstream gear...it's the bottom cover of the amplifier unit (not the PSU unit) vibrating and causing my WA33 to audibly hum/buzz, traveling through my tubes into my dynamic drivers. I've never had an issue with driver noise using my planars. I applied even upward pressure along the bottom cover of the amplifier, and sure enough the amp is dead silent, and I only had a very faint noise through my dynamic drivers, which is normal for effiicient dynamic headphone drivers with the WA33.



Yes I've noticed that at certain points you can actually push and the bottom moves... question is because its attached to the psu; how to fix that?  In reality its a build issue I'm going to check mine out to and see if the noise goes...


----------



## hehaw77

checked mine... for me that's not my issue... back to transformer...  felik board feric board... I think is what its called ...


----------



## hehaw77

Anyways back to some positive stuff....   I'm always thrilled at just how well this amp plays planars... especially the he1000's I have .... no where else do I like the sound of planars as much as on this amp....  and I've listened to a lot of them... just sublime.... mind you I'm using top notch equipment...


----------



## joseph69

Thenewguy007 said:


> Maybe some Dynamat extreme can fix the vibrating?





hehaw77 said:


> "question is because its attached to the psu; how to fix that"?



I was thinking more along the lines of placing a strip of 1/4" x 16" of Sorbothane on the bottom side of the amp cover flush against the backside of the lip of the faceplate. This is my only choice being I'm not about to separate the amp/PSU, because my warranty will go out the window, so I'll try to make the fix as easy as possible from the outside and see (hear) how it goes, otherwise I can live with it knowing what the issue is. I totally understand this being an issue due to the expansion and contraction of the aluminum.


----------



## joseph69

@Thenewguy007 
The Dynamat is something I'd look into as well, but it blocks heat, but again, I'd only be using a 1/4" x 16" strip, so it is a possibility.


----------



## waterking

Interesting about the issue with the amplifier case. The system is so bulky/heavy I just never would have thought that it might be a housing issue with the amp. Thanks.


----------



## andyschaub

joseph69 said:


> I received my ISO Pucks this evening as well, and fortunately, they're going back because I found the issue with my WA33. It's not the transformers or a ground loop, or any of my tubes or upstream gear...it's the bottom cover of the amplifier unit (not the PSU unit) vibrating and causing my WA33 to audibly hum/buzz, traveling through my tubes into my dynamic drivers. I've never had an issue with driver noise using my planars. I applied even upward pressure along the bottom cover of the amplifier, and sure enough the amp is dead silent, and I only had a very faint noise through my dynamic drivers, which is normal for effiicient dynamic headphone drivers with the WA33.


Vibration (as opposed to hum) most often occurs when there's an unstable transformer in the circuit, which would itself be a reason for the company to service it under warranty, at least within the limits of my experience. Cheers.


----------



## waterking

Maybe Jack or Mike at Woo will chime in here and provide some guidance.


----------



## joseph69

waterking said:


> Interesting about the issue with the amplifier case. The system is so bulky/heavy I just never would have thought that it might be a housing issue with the amp. Thanks.


The bottom covers of both, the amp/PSU flex very easily with the slightest pressure from your fingers. They're not as solid as the rest of the chassis.



andyschaub said:


> Vibration (as opposed to hum) most often occurs when there's an unstable transformer in the circuit, which would itself be a reason for the company to service it under warranty, at least within the limits of my experience. Cheers.


The transformers are in the bottom chassis (as you know) so why would the noise go away when applying pressure to the bottom cover of the amp?


----------



## Mikey99

I am interested in the WA33, but a few concerns / questions:

I keep reading about noise, hums, RFI, vibrations, buzzing, etc. on this thread. This is a $8000-15000 amp that weighs 50 pounds, I would expect it to be almost EMP-proof.  I know problems tend to be disproportionally reported on forums, but I am wondering how frequent this is. Is is QC, design, bad luck?
I just checked the website and see that it does not come with global voltage, but is built to the region. I am currently in Europe but expect to move back to North America at some point. This would be a show-stopper for me unless this can be adjusted later - does anyone know if this is a possibility?
A fall-back would be to look at a WA5, which has global voltage. Does anyone know how it compares when used with an Abyss?
I still need to find a place where I can listen to these amps!


----------



## hehaw77

joseph69 said:


> I was thinking more along the lines of placing a strip of 1/4" x 16" of Sorbothane on the bottom side of the amp cover flush against the backside of the lip of the faceplate. This is my only choice being I'm not about to separate the amp/PSU, because my warranty will go out the window, so I'll try to make the fix as easy as possible from the outside and see (hear) how it goes, otherwise I can live with it knowing what the issue is. I totally understand this being an issue due to the expansion and contraction of the aluminum.



Can you put a pict up where you will be placing this? Mine doesn't have this issue..


----------



## hehaw77

Mikey99 said:


> I am interested in the WA33, but a few concerns / questions:
> 
> I keep reading about noise, hums, RFI, vibrations, buzzing, etc. on this thread. This is a $8000-15000 amp that weighs 50 pounds, I would expect it to be almost EMP-proof.  I know problems tend to be disproportionally reported on forums, but I am wondering how frequent this is. Is is QC, design, bad luck?
> I just checked the website and see that it does not come with global voltage, but is built to the region. I am currently in Europe but expect to move back to North America at some point. This would be a show-stopper for me unless this can be adjusted later - does anyone know if this is a possibility?
> ...



The humm... comes usually when you use high efficiency headphones eg... like the Utopia... its slight and can be reduced with better tubes and once the tubes warm up it goes down a bit further... on regular headphones the hum isn't there at least for me...  voltage question is best answered by Jack.... 

The sound signature of the WA33 is the reason I bought it; on the Abyss I've never heard it yet... but from what I've heard its quite awesome...  my local dealer is brining some in the phi and the monster one... so I'll take a listen to them next week...


----------



## joseph69

hehaw77 said:


> Can you put a pict up where you will be placing this? Mine doesn't have this issue..


I was thinking about it, and I'm not going to do it because I don't want the adhesive to get hot/cold and then become hard as a rock, so I've decided to liv with it, it's not a big deal ay all. I was going to place it on the bottom cover of the amplifier unit...I'd never get a photo of the cover being the amp/PSU are so close to each other.



hehaw77 said:


> The humm... comes usually when you use high efficiency headphones eg... like the Utopia... its slight and can be reduced with better tubes and once the tubes warm up it goes down a bit further... on regular headphones the hum isn't there at least for me.


+1


----------



## hehaw77

Well let's not forget why we bought this expensive amp...  because it sounds great. Amps like the DNA Stellaris, Vista series amps also sound good. The Stellaris is very refined and articulate very nice and has no noise whatsoever....however it does not have the kick and power of the wa33. Also the maker of the DNA Stellaris does it as a hobby and produces one once a year; while Woo is an actual company. 
The Vista I've only listened to the 235 its bigger brother I have yet to listen to. The 235 is also very refined and has an amazing design. However I didn't really like the sound signature on the Utopia's it was harsh. The WA33 sounded good with whatever headphone I threw at it. Planars, non planars and just enhanced their sound. I was blown away. I can't say I got that same feeling with the others... Who knows maybe one day I'll own a Stellaris or the 800 series of the Vista. Most likely the Vista...


----------



## joseph69

hehaw77 said:


> Well let's not forget why we bought this expensive amp... because it sounds great.


There's no denying this.


----------



## hehaw77

oops I kept saying Vista ... its actually Viva... it was late...


----------



## hehaw77

Listening preferences...   Now that I have options .. Dave or WA33...  I find myself gravitating towards the amp of course... and I like the planar pairing with the WA33 more than I do with the Utopia's even though they also sound great. 

One thing ... the WA33 is a power hungry beast... 230+ watts so when I want to listen to classical music I find the Dave/blu2 combo to be more than sufficient...  enough though it also sounds great on the WA33 everything sounds great on that amp; however I tend to sometimes have all night listening sessions... (oh come on you all do it now and again) so saving some money on power consumption is not a bad thing.... 

I upgraded my planar headphone cables yesterday to 7N silver on the hifiman and I get even more detail...   I'm doing my best now to stop spending... putting the brakes on as much as possible..  my irritating local dealer is always trying to tempt me with new items...


----------



## waterking

The WA33 is a great amp. Even with some niggling issues it is well worth its cost.


----------



## andyschaub

waterking said:


> The WA33 is a great amp. Even with some niggling issues it is well worth its cost.


I'm sure that you are correct.


----------



## Thenewguy007

hehaw77 said:


> however I tend to sometimes have all night listening sessions... (oh come on you all do it now and again) so saving some money on power consumption is not a bad thing....



Wow, you have close to $30,000 in equipment & you are worrying if it's worth it over an extra $5 per month in electricity bills?


----------



## hehaw77

Have any of you tried the Susvara or phe 1266 with the WA33 what are you impressions


----------



## hehaw77 (Dec 10, 2018)

Thenewguy007 said:


> Wow, you have close to $30,000 in equipment & you are worrying if it's worth it over an extra $5 per month in electricity bills?



More like 100K and its not 5 dollars... try hundreds... and I may add that as I'm typing this I have the WA33 off and listening to the DAVE/blu2 combo only  the wa33 will be coming on soon though...


----------



## HiFiGuy528

To clarify the confusions around electronics vibration. It is not possible to make a tube amplifier absolutely *dead silent *when it is powered on. ALL electronics have some vibration sounds when electricity is passing through it. 

It is normal to hear some low-level noise *when no music is playing* and you're using a high-efficiency headphone such as the Focal Utopia, HD800, Sony Z1r on a high power, high gain amplifier. For these headphones, we recommend using the LO level setting for the best sound.


----------



## hehaw77

HiFiGuy528 said:


> To clarify the confusions around electronics vibration. It is not possible to make a tube amplifier absolutely *dead silent *when it is powered on. ALL electronics have some vibration sounds when electricity is passing through it.
> 
> It is normal to hear some low-level noise *when no music is playing* and you're using a high-efficiency headphone such as the Focal Utopia, HD800, Sony Z1r on a high power, high gain amplifier. For these headphones, we recommend using the LO level setting for the best sound.




Hmm depends Mike the Stellairs was dead silent...  don't think it has as much power...  the Viva 235 was also silent....     Stellairs at a friends house...   viva at a store so maybe that made a difference...   either way we like the product... there are some little things here and there where improvements could be made ... perhaps on the second rendition.....


----------



## joseph69

I know it's mostly about sound, but that Stellaris is way too ugly for me.


----------



## dawktah2

joseph69 said:


> I know it's mostly about sound, but that Stellaris is way too ugly for me.



Whoa! Can you get a different color?!?!


----------



## joseph69

I've never seen one in a different color, but if that were mine it'd be getting powder-coated


----------



## hehaw77

joseph69 said:


> I know it's mostly about sound, but that Stellaris is way too ugly for me.



lol.. well the colour is a little strange I must admit but the build quality is excellent not a flaw anywhere... but mind you if it takes him a year to build one... it better be...  the Viva's are a work of art...


----------



## hehaw77

The more I continue on with the WA33 the more I tend to like the planars on them. The hifi1000's sound really amazing on them... at times I prefer it over the Utopia's...  I like the Utopia's on the DAVE direct.... they tend to have higher detail on the solid state. Local dealer is bringing in the phi 1266 so will be hearing those soon.


----------



## kyle1010 (Dec 12, 2018)

Double post


----------



## kyle1010

Any Dave—>WA33 users here? I’m currently running Dave/WA22/LCD-4 and I could use some more natural fullness to the sound. WA22 is close, but I need to know if investing in the 33 will get me there. If so, will I get the all the impact and richness the 4s are know for with the stock tubes or will the pricey 2A3 upgrades be necessary? I’m currently running a WE422a as rectifier and plan to transfer it over to the 33. In my WA7tp the stock 6C45 tubes sound more rich and impactful, so I’ve parted ways with the flatter sounding EH gold pins long ago. Not sure if the WA33 has the same effects with those tubes. Anyway, if I’m going to throw down on this monster of an amp to complete my dream system I just want to know if I can get my beloved LCD-4s to sound as rich and organic as I know they can. Or, do I need to start thinking about Abyss Phi? Thoughts?


----------



## hehaw77

Hi there Kyle. 

This is the WA33 thread so there are a number of WA33 users here. Including myself. The WA22 has a different sound signature its more neutral. 
I'm currently using the stock tubes and they are sufficient for me at this time. The WA33 has made all my headphones sound amazing. More sound stage, warmer, and detail. I've put posts on here already about how I like the sound signature and it does add the organic sound many are looking for and it has gobs of power to run any headphone. I have limited experience with the LCD-4's only listened to them in store. 
I have the hifiman1000's which sound incredible on the WA33. My setup includes the Dave/Blu2 combo and I've listened to the 1000 on the Dave only and it sounds decent... but on the amp it becomes a whole different headphone. It feels like your there at the concert or the recording studio. From experience planars always sound better on tube amps. 

I've also written on some of the WA33 quirks... if you have a high efficiency headphone eg.. uptopia's like I do .... you will hear a slight humm... there are some remedies for that eg... changing the tubes etc... personally it doesn't bother me and I don't hear it once the music starts.... no noise on the planars... 

In short this amp is an organic beast. I choose it over the dna stellairs, Viva 235, Feliks, Pathos impolear, and others...  because of its wow factor when you hear it. If the LCD-4 is like the other planars it will only enhance its sound. Hope that helps...


----------



## joseph69

hehaw77 said:


> The WA33 has made all my headphones sound amazing. More sound stage, warmer, and detail.


Agreed.


----------



## hehaw77

I bought a whole bunch of new tubes to try out.. just haven't gotten around to putting them in...  I'll do that soon and share results...   I kinda like the stock ones but curious to see how the sound changes with the different tubes


----------



## joseph69

hehaw77 said:


> I bought a whole bunch of new tubes to try out.. just haven't gotten around to putting them in...  I'll do that soon and share results...   I kinda like the stock ones but curious to see how the sound changes with the different tubes


So, which tubes did you buy to try out...power, driver, rectifier? Also what manufacturer?


----------



## llamaluv

We do need more impressions of different tubes in this thread. Especially the 2A3's.

Speaking of which, I have a matched quad of JJ 2A3-40's I no longer use. PM me anyone, if you want to try to work something out.


----------



## hehaw77

joseph69 said:


> So, which tubes did you buy to try out...power, driver, rectifier? Also what manufacturer?



Hmm I bought the 2a3's treasure from shug... whatever the company is called
Bought a bunch of rectifiers...  1 jj, 1 shug, 1 electro harmonix
and some 6A's... just in case...  I have yet to try them out... the 2a3's were recommended so let's see..


----------



## joseph69

hehaw77 said:


> "and some 6A's"


???


----------



## hehaw77

joseph69 said:


> ???



you know the drivers...


----------



## joseph69

hehaw77 said:


> you know the drivers...


No, I don't. 
When you get the time, I'd like to know what driver tubes you bought in place of the 6C45. On their compatabilty chart, Woo doesn't show anything for the WA33 with the exception of the 2A3 power tubes and 5UG4.


----------



## hehaw77

joseph69 said:


> No, I don't.
> When you get the time, I'd like to know what driver tubes you bought in place of the 6C45. On their compatabilty chart, Woo doesn't show anything for the WA33 with the exception of the 2A3 power tubes and 5UG4.



That's what I mean the driver tubes... there is no replacement for it


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Trying different tubes is a lot of fun. You can find our selection of _carefully_ chosen upgrade tubes on our website on the product page under the "recommended" section. Please note that we can only provide product support for what we sell. Damage to the amplifier caused by tube failure from third-party tubes may void the warranty.


----------



## bubbletop

arent' rectifier tubes pretty much all the same 5u4g / 274b   they have different shapes and such... and do change the sound signature a bit...


----------



## kyle1010

hehaw77 said:


> Hi there Kyle.
> 
> This is the WA33 thread so there are a number of WA33 users here. Including myself. The WA22 has a different sound signature its more neutral.
> I'm currently using the stock tubes and they are sufficient for me at this time. The WA33 has made all my headphones sound amazing. More sound stage, warmer, and detail. I've put posts on here already about how I like the sound signature and it does add the organic sound many are looking for and it has gobs of power to run any headphone. I have limited experience with the LCD-4's only listened to them in store.
> ...



Hey thanks for the info. I think I’ve answered my own questions in another thread. I’ve actually demoed WA33 a few times, once with my own LCD-4s. My problem is the Dave. While from a technical perspective it’s the king, it’s also very flat and accurate sounding, which most people would love but I prefer a more natural sound. When I demoed WA33 it was with a dCS Rossini dac so of course my 4s sounded like pure heaven. I think I need to sell off the Dave, buy a WA33, and grab the weightier sounding Hugo TT2 as dac. Don’t get me wrong I love Dave’s resolution, but for my rock and edm it’s sound signature is not preferable. With WA33, from what I recall hearing, at least I know it’s an end game piece of the puzzle.


----------



## waterking

I am currently running a Yggdrasil(2) as my dac and wondered if adding a Chord M Scaler would be beneficial or would it be better to switch out the Yggy for a Hugo TT2? Any opinions appreciated!


----------



## Thenewguy007

I don't think anyone tried an M Scaler with a Yggdrasil yet, you'd be the first, but the M Scaler is a upsampler, so it will benefit any DAC.


----------



## chaos215bar2

Wouldn't that depend on how the DAC actually handles inputs at lower sample rates? One of the main selling points of the Yggdrasil is the so-called "mega combo burrito filter", which you'd be effectively bypassing by using a scaler upstream.


----------



## waterking

Thanks for the input. I am sure the Chord would assist the yggy to a degree...just wondering if the degree is worth the $5k. Exactly my concern...would upscaling the signal to the Yggy somehow change how it handles it and moves it to the amp?


----------



## Thenewguy007

waterking said:


> Thanks for the input. I am sure the Chord would assist the yggy to a degree...just wondering if the degree is worth the $5k. Exactly my concern...would upscaling the signal to the Yggy somehow change how it handles it and moves it to the amp?



How about trying the HQplayer & use its filter to get a taste of upsampling.
I think the Yggydrasil max upsampling is 192hz, so you can try one of the 192hh upsample filters with the HQplayer.

https://www.signalyst.com/consumer.html


----------



## waterking

Thanks! I will check it out.


----------



## joseph69 (Dec 21, 2018)

After posting about some vibration noise issues and concluding it was the bottom chassis plate of the amp, I was very wrong.
My issue was/is with my UE USAF-596 rectifier tube. I've replaced my 595 with my Brimar 5Z4GY and there is no noise at all coming from the WA33 which I've been listening to for the past 4+hrs. So having said "I can live with it knowing what the issue is" I only have to live with the noise when using my 596, otherwise, dead silent now.
Apologies if I've misled anyone.


----------



## bfreedma

joseph69 said:


> After posting about some vibration noise issues and concluding it was the bottom chassis plate of the amp, I was very wrong.
> My issue was/is with my UE USAF-596 rectifier tube. I've replaced my 595 with my Brimar 5Z4GY and there is no noise at all coming from the WA33 which I've been listening to for the past 4+hrs. So having said "I can live with it knowing what the issue is" I only have to live with the noise when using my 596, otherwise, dead silent now.
> Apologies if I've misled anyone.




Glad you found a solution.  Would be curious if the 596 would show the same problem if reinserted.  Perhaps something was loose or it or the adapter just wasn’t seated perfectly.


----------



## WooAudio

joseph69 said:


> After posting about some vibration noise issues and concluding it was the bottom chassis plate of the amp, I was very wrong.
> My issue was/is with my UE USAF-596 rectifier tube. I've replaced my 595 with my Brimar 5Z4GY and there is no noise at all coming from the WA33 which I've been listening to for the past 4+hrs. So having said "I can live with it knowing what the issue is" I only have to live with the noise when using my 596, otherwise, dead silent now.
> Apologies if I've misled anyone.



I am happy to know your amp is working well without issues. FWIW, some tubes would cause mechanical vibration that disperses to the amp. The amp usually comes with a set of low-noise, quality tubes so you can always come back to them if you need troubleshooting.  

Jack


----------



## joseph69

Thank you, me too!
I'm going to reinstall it later after shut down and I'll keep you posted. I also have another NOS BNIB UE-USAF 596 which I've never used, so I'll give that a try as well.


----------



## llamaluv

joseph69 said:


> my Brimar 5Z4GY


How do you like the Brimar? I'm in the middle of burning one in and haven't yet given it a serious listen yet...


----------



## joseph69

llamaluv said:


> How do you like the Brimar? I'm in the middle of burning one in and haven't yet given it a serious listen yet...


I like the Brimar very much, especially for it's price performance ratio. I find it has excellent bass with the WA33/HE1000V2 as well. This is the first time I've put it in the WA33 and it pairs very nicely so far. I've used the Brimar in my WA6 for years as well.

Do you have any initial impressions so far?


----------



## joseph69

I'm also waiting on some inexpensive rectifier tubes that I've purchased from Watford Valves to arrive.

BNIB-NOS;
5U4G/5U3C-SVETLANA WINGED C (I liked their EL34 in my BHSE)
5U4GB-SYLVANIA BLACK PLATE
5U4GB-AMPEREX 
5U4GB-RCA


----------



## llamaluv

Oh cool. I don't yet, except that bass seemed nice. 

I've swapped the other tubes back to stock while I burn the Brimars in for maybe a total of 50 hours, and then I'll give them a real listen, probably Sunday evening.


----------



## kyle1010

Any impressions of the KR 2A3s vs the stock 2A3s?


----------



## melb0028

kyle1010 said:


> Any impressions of the KR 2A3s vs the stock 2A3s?


The KR 2A3s are a substantial improvement in every way.  I could not imagine going back to stock tubes after hearing them - highly recommended if you have the inclination. It is one important step in transforming the WA33 from great to spectacular.


----------



## kyle1010 (Jan 2, 2019)

melb0028 said:


> The KR 2A3s are a substantial improvement in every way.  I could not imagine going back to stock tubes after hearing them - highly recommended if you have the inclination. It is one important step in transforming the WA33 from great to spectacular.


I figured that, but can you give frequency range quality/quantity details and/or soundstage and imaging? Are they higher gain than stock? Weightier or more airy? I’m ok with eventually throwing down for their cost but I’m a tonality junky so if they’re thinner sounding than stock I’ll look elsewhere.


----------



## waterking

I've not had mine long enough with a sufficient quantity of use to be able to address the tonality of the KR's versus the stock 2A3's. I can say that when using the WA33 with LCD4's/4z's/Utopia and Auteurs that the word "thinner" to my ears does not come to mind. I have a pair of Phi CC's coming in so maybe they will provide some more definition to what I am hearing.


----------



## melb0028

kyle1010 said:


> I figured that, but can you give frequency range quality/quantity details and/or soundstage and imaging? Are they higher gain than stock? Weightier or more airy? I’m ok with eventually throwing down for their cost but I’m a tonality junky so if they’re thinner sounding than stock I’ll look elsewhere.


Definitely not thin at all in my experience. I recall a noticeable extension to bass and treble range coupled with more resolution. They open up the soundstage with the improved resolution but not from other changes - its the same amp and headphones after all. Some of my best tracks though sound ridiculously out of head and I've had many experiences of something on the track making me think someones in the room with me. Overall I kind of think of the stock tubes as a dimly lit room and the KRs as brilliantly lit given you the ability to hear deep into the recording. Rich, beautiful extended - both more weighty in the bass and airy on the top end. Of course ymmv but I can't think of any audiophile term that diminished with the KRs - just all better.


----------



## kyle1010

melb0028 said:


> Definitely not thin at all in my experience. I recall a noticeable extension to bass and treble range coupled with more resolution. They open up the soundstage with the improved resolution but not from other changes - its the same amp and headphones after all. Some of my best tracks though sound ridiculously out of head and I've had many experiences of something on the track making me think someones in the room with me. Overall I kind of think of the stock tubes as a dimly lit room and the KRs as brilliantly lit given you the ability to hear deep into the recording. Rich, beautiful extended - both more weighty in the bass and airy on the top end. Of course ymmv but I can't think of any audiophile term that diminished with the KRs - just all better.



Ok I’m sold. Thanks for spelling that out in detail. I’ve actually heard the KR 2A3s the first time I demoed the 33 and heard most of what you described as far as the out of head experience. I can’t recall their tonality though other than it sounded incredible. I’ve just never heard the 33 stock so I’m not sure what I’ll be missing when mine arrives next week. I guess I’ll start stashing some coins away for the KRs then


----------



## tabloid

I would try this ampli. It's hard to find it in Italy.


----------



## llamaluv

llamaluv said:


> I've swapped the other tubes back to stock while I burn the Brimars in for maybe a total of 50 hours, and then I'll give them a real listen, probably Sunday evening.



I finally did a direct comparison of the Brimar 5Z4G which I got from Langrex against the incumbent, which is an EML 274B Mesh, with the WA33 connected to the Susvara.

The Brimar, when listened to in isolation, sounded alright, but compared directly against the EML 274B Mesh, was soundly beaten on all counts. Less dynamism, less clarity and separation, less bass extension.

I'm going to chalk it up as a relatively inexpensive experiment that leads me to a greater appreciation of what I already have.

Standard disclaimers apply.


----------



## joseph69

Thanks for your impressions.
I think I'm going to purchase the EML 5U4G Mesh to hear for myself.
Have you ever tried the UE-596?


----------



## llamaluv

joseph69 said:


> Thanks for your impressions.
> I think I'm going to purchase the EML 5U4G Mesh to hear for myself.
> Have you ever tried the UE-596?



No, but I do kind of want to... It kills me to spend so much on "consumables" but inevitably at a certain point, curiosity will win out over prudence and I'll probably get one. And/or maybe a Tak.


----------



## musicman59

If you guys are interested in the 596 (great rectifier by the way!) contact WOTTS here at the forum. I know he has a few NOS pairs and is thinking in selling some.


----------



## kyle1010

Unboxed this expensive bedside lamp yesterday. Letting it burn in 80hrs or so with my old Sophia rectifier just cuz it’s pretty. I’ll throw the WE422a in after that. When my wallet cools off for a few months, upgrade path will consist of:

-Hugo TT2 (Black)
-Dana Lazuli Reference balanced HP cable
-KR Audio 2A3s
-Hugo M-Scaler(Black)

In that order. Then, like Thanos, I finally rest and watch the sunrise on a grateful system. (Until new stuff comes out)


----------



## Mikey99

kyle1010 said:


> Unboxed this expensive bedside lamp yesterday. Letting it burn in 80hrs or so with my old Sophia rectifier just cuz it’s pretty. I’ll throw the WE422a in after that. When my wallet cools off for a few months, upgrade path will consist of:
> 
> -Hugo TT2 (Black)
> -Dana Lazuli Reference balanced HP cable
> ...


I never thought of it as a lamp. Is it bright enough to read by?


----------



## kyle1010

Mikey99 said:


> I never thought of it as a lamp. Is it bright enough to read by?


If the room was dark enough and I found a set of 2A3s with fancy glowing filaments in the mesh plates like the Sophia(EML?), yeah probably.


----------



## llamaluv

kyle1010 said:


> Unboxed this expensive bedside lamp yesterday.





Mikey99 said:


> I never thought of it as a lamp. Is it bright enough to read by?



The astronomically low value proposition of the device when used in this way... appeals to my sense of humor.


----------



## llamaluv

Quick question-- Does the 6.3mm output offer just half the power of the balanced outputs, or the same amount? (I don't have a XLR-to-6.3mm adapter to be able to verify this for myself at the moment.)


----------



## dawktah2

kyle1010 said:


> Unboxed this expensive bedside lamp yesterday. Letting it burn in 80hrs or so with my old Sophia rectifier just cuz it’s pretty. I’ll throw the WE422a in after that. When my wallet cools off for a few months, upgrade path will consist of:
> 
> -Hugo TT2 (Black)
> -Dana Lazuli Reference balanced HP cable
> ...



I wish I could sit a WA33 out in the open like that!  Unfortunately I have to put it where I can protect it from my 6 year old daughter. I can imagine the damage a hatchimal, LOL or a Lego village could do to it!  Those of us with kids this age know what foreign language I just spoke, LOL


----------



## kyle1010

llamaluv said:


> Quick question-- Does the 6.3mm output offer just half the power of the balanced outputs, or the same amount? (I don't have a XLR-to-6.3mm adapter to be able to verify this for myself at the moment.)


I honestly have no idea. No balanced dac on hand to test it(yet). On my WA22 balanced wasn’t any louder just better separation. Really, even though I’m under 10hrs of use total with impedance and gain both set to high, the LCD-4s don’t sound perceptively a whole lot louder with the volume knob at the same spots as the WA22. Driver control seems to be where the extra wattage is helping tremendously. WA33 is FAST but still deliciously tubey. Don’t understand how, don’t care, it’s marvelous.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think Woo is a manufacturer that pushes you to run balanced by offering up more gain from the balanced outputs. I always thought that was a cheap shot by other brands to people who couldn’t swing a balanced dac right away. From my experience with the Dave I recently sold, Woo’s balanced outputs just have quieter backgrounds, better imaging and soundstage in all directions, but it’s not night and day vs SE to my ears. WA5 still sounds unbelievable single ended. Sorry to rant just thinking and typing haha.


----------



## kyle1010

dawktah2 said:


> I wish I could sit a WA33 out in the open like that!  Unfortunately I have to put it where I can protect it from my 6 year old daughter. I can imagine the damage a hatchimal, LOL or a Lego village could do to it!  Those of us with kids this age know what foreign language I just spoke, LOL


Haha yeah I don’t have a kid yet, but when that day comes it’ll need protection from me if it gets within touching or projectile distance of my gear. My dad had ALL the 80’s audio toys out in the open and god help me if I even looked at them funny. Lol cheers.


----------



## llamaluv (Jan 12, 2019)

llamaluv said:


> Quick question-- Does the 6.3mm output offer just half the power of the balanced outputs, or the same amount? (I don't have a XLR-to-6.3mm adapter to be able to verify this for myself at the moment.)





kyle1010 said:


> I honestly have no idea. No balanced dac on hand to test it(yet).



Oh, my question was purely on the headphone output side of things. Since the WA uses a phase splitter internally when being fed single-ended, all amplification paths are fully engaged even when connected via RCA, and the resulting output levels of the respective headphone outs are the same in both cases. (I definitely like this as an architectural design decision).

Speaking of SE vs balanced input, I want to mention the following -- even though it may call into question my own listening preferences (haha)...

My DAC outputs balanced and SE simultaneously and I was trying to decide which of my two amps would take the balanced connection and which would take the RCA connection. So as part of that test, I had the DAC (Metrum Pavane Level 3) feeding the WA33 using balanced and SE at the same time, and was able to switch inputs coming from that same source instantaneously. And the headphones (Susvara and Auteur) were being connected through XLR.

I actually liked the resulting presentation as much (and maybe even more?!) coming out of the SE compared to balanced. Balanced frequency response extended ever so slightly deeper and I think it was just ever so slightly more punchy, but SE resulted in larger (arguably less precise) images in a slightly expanded soundstage, which I quite liked. I also think the mids were less forward. But all the differences were -- as you might expect -- quite subtle (and c'mon, for an amp of this level, they better be).

My only point really is that RCA is a viable way to feed the amp and IMO doesn't have to be thought of as a second-class connection. And is just generally worth trying out even when you have the option of using balanced.


----------



## joseph69

kyle1010 said:


> If the room was dark enough and I found a set of 2A3s with fancy glowing filaments in the mesh plates like the Sophia(EML?), yeah probably.


You can barley tell that the EML 2A3's are on in the pitch-black.



kyle1010 said:


> My dad had ALL the 80’s audio toys out in the open and *god help me if I even looked at them funny*. Lol cheers.


LMAO!!!


----------



## kyle1010

llamaluv said:


> Oh, my question was purely on the headphone output side of things. Since the WA uses a phase splitter internally when being fed single-ended, all amplification paths are fully engaged even when connected via RCA, and the resulting output levels of the respective headphone outs are the same in both cases. (I definitely like this as an architectural design decision).
> 
> Speaking of SE vs balanced input, I want to mention the following -- even though it may call into question my own listening preferences (haha)...
> 
> ...



I can agree with that. I’m hearing electrostatic levels of detail from the SE output of the 33. I’d imagine balanced would do as you described, but for some of my music it isn’t always preferred and I could see myself liking the SE output just as much as balanced.


----------



## kyle1010

Anyone try Woo’s Psvane WR2A3s? Impressions vs stock or the KRs?


----------



## llamaluv

Curious to know which impedance setting people are using with planars. 

Output impedance isn't supposed affect planars much -- at least that's how the old adage goes. However with any tube amp with a high/low impedance setting, I've always found it to change presentation in some manner, even if in ways that can be hard to articulate sometimes.

With the WA33 on the high-z setting, I hear a tube-like bloom in the mids/upper-mids, and I'd say the overall volume level is boosted as well. Imaging seems to gain more definition, and the phantom center channel pushes outward and takes on more solidity.

Based on the specific music though, these differences can be barely noticeable, and other times they're very noticeable. With the Susvara, I tend to leave the impedance switch on high, although sometimes with my tube configuration the mids get to be a little much and I'll switch it to low...


----------



## matthewhypolite

llamaluv said:


> Curious to know which impedance setting people are using with planars.
> 
> Output impedance isn't supposed affect planars much -- at least that's how the old adage goes. However with any tube amp with a high/low impedance setting, I've always found it to change presentation in some manner, even if in ways that can be hard to articulate sometimes.
> 
> ...



I use high impedance and level for both the Abyss and Susvara, i use low on both for Utopia


----------



## mahesvara

kyle1010 said:


> Anyone try Woo’s Psvane WR2A3s? Impressions vs stock or the KRs?



I have the WR2A3. They are a lot better than stock (big surprise). Greater soundstage and much better clarity.


----------



## kyle1010

mahesvara said:


> I have the WR2A3. They are a lot better than stock (big surprise). Greater soundstage and much better clarity.


Thanks. Hmmm. Tonality vs. stock 2A3s?


----------



## mahesvara

kyle1010 said:


> Thanks. Hmmm. Tonality vs. stock 2A3s?



The stock tubes would seem warmer, but it's because they have higher distortion, so the sounds would seem like their edges are blunted. WR2A3 are better in every way (to me).


----------



## kyle1010

mahesvara said:


> The stock tubes would seem warmer, but it's because they have higher distortion, so the sounds would seem like their edges are blunted. WR2A3 are better in every way (to me).


Ahhh ok. I’m looking for something still warm sounding but also very detailed. Shuguang Treasures or maybe Sophias? Not sure.


----------



## macx

Pulling the trigger on a WA33 Elite, my poor wallet....


----------



## kyle1010

macx said:


> Pulling the trigger on a WA33 Elite, my poor wallet....


Yeah, but at least you know you’re done buying headphone amps for a long..long time.


----------



## macx

kyle1010 said:


> Yeah, but at least you know you’re done buying headphone amps for a long..long time.


I wonder if it’ll keep me warm living under my bridge...


----------



## kyle1010

macx said:


> I wonder if it’ll keep me warm living under my bridge...


Well it’s a good thing tubes give off so much heat. Speaking of, did you go completely bonkers and get upgraded tubes as well?


----------



## macx

kyle1010 said:


> Well it’s a good thing tubes give off so much heat. Speaking of, did you go completely bonkers and get upgraded tubes as well?


No, I didn’t purchase any tubes “yet”.....


----------



## kyle1010

macx said:


> No, I didn’t purchase any tubes “yet”.....


Same here. All I have is some NOS rectifiers leftover from my WA22, and for some reason neither of my WE422a tubes sound too great in the 33. Like do I NEED the Takatsuki 274b? I’m honestly gonna have to have a phone conversation with somebody over at Woo about their upgrade tubes. I need some that give me rich organic texture like a tube amp should, not hyper transparency like SS.


----------



## macx

kyle1010 said:


> Same here. All I have is some NOS rectifiers leftover from my WA22, and for some reason neither of my WE422a tubes sound too great in the 33. Like do I NEED the Takatsuki 274b? I’m honestly gonna have to have a phone conversation with somebody over at Woo about their upgrade tubes. I need some that give me rich organic texture like a tube amp should, not hyper transparency like SS.


You have the elite or standard? I been fighting the elite cost difference I could buy a abyss phi tc with the difference


----------



## kyle1010 (Mar 5, 2019)

macx said:


> You have the elite or standard? I been fighting the elite cost difference I could buy a abyss phi tc with the difference


Standard. I was fighting the same thing, but I bought a Hugo TT2 and Wireworld Silver Electra 7 power cord with the price difference. Phi TC is in my sights now too but I gotta hear it first at CanJam or something. Headphones these days are getting leaner and leaner sounding as you move up and I’m not into that.


----------



## waterking

Congrats on the new WA33. You are going to love the sound but unless you own a tube store your wallet is still in for a bit more agony!


----------



## N15M0

Anyone tried both WA5 LE and WA33? Is it worth upgrading to the WA33?


----------



## macx

N15M0 said:


> Anyone tried both WA5 LE and WA33? Is it worth upgrading to the WA33?


I haven’t heard a wa33 yet, but my elite is about 3 weeks out


----------



## kyle1010

Do any of you guys use upgraded power cables with the WA33 and notice any difference in the sound? I’ve been using a standard universal plug you’d find in use on any regular receiver or amplifier, but I know the Woo Audio guys always use a nice fat upgraded power cable with the WA33 at shows and swear it’s pretty much “mandatory” to get peak performance. Can anyone attest to any improvements with better power cables? I live in a very new building with very clean power as far as I know so conditioning isn’t really an issue, I’m just wondering if the larger gauge upgrade cables with better conductive materials make a difference if they do in fact deliver more power or current.


----------



## llamaluv

My WA33 is up for sale.

I've really enjoyed owning it over the past half-year or so, but my favored headphones -- the Susvara and RAAL SR1a -- love speaker amps. That, and I've come to prefer solid-state over tubes in general (though this is probably not the right thread to open up that line of discussion  ). So the WA33 needs a new home...


----------



## waterking

kyle1010 said:


> Do any of you guys use upgraded power cables with the WA33 and notice any difference in the sound? I’ve been using a standard universal plug you’d find in use on any regular receiver or amplifier, but I know the Woo Audio guys always use a nice fat upgraded power cable with the WA33 at shows and swear it’s pretty much “mandatory” to get peak performance. Can anyone attest to any improvements with better power cables? I live in a very new building with very clean power as far as I know so conditioning isn’t really an issue, I’m just wondering if the larger gauge upgrade cables with better conductive materials make a difference if they do in fact deliver more power or current.



I just grabbed an audioquest and use one on my WA33 and my 3ES. Really can't say that i have heard any difference between a standard power cable and an upgrade...at least with these two amps.


----------



## kyle1010

waterking said:


> I just grabbed an audioquest and use one on my WA33 and my 3ES. Really can't say that i have heard any difference between a standard power cable and an upgrade...at least with these two amps.



Hmmmm. I grabbed a pretty beefy 2m Wireworld Silver Electra 7 so I think I’m gonna safely power the 33 off and on vs the standard cheap cable and do some critical listening. I feel like my chain is extremely revealing so hopefully I’ll hear at least a blacker background or cleaner imaging as they say.


----------



## mahesvara

llamaluv said:


> I've really enjoyed owning it over the past half-year or so, but my favored headphones -- the Susvara and RAAL SR1a -- love speaker amps. That, and I've come to prefer solid-state over tubes in general (though this is probably not the right thread to open up that line of discussion  ). So the WA33 needs a new home...



Since you live near In Living Stereo, maybe you should ask to try the Abyss Diana Phi / Phi TC on WA33. I have Diana Phi and WA33, and Diana Phi sounds so much better than Susvara (to my ears) that it's not even close


----------



## waterking

mahesvara said:


> Since you live near In Living Stereo, maybe you should ask to try the Abyss Diana Phi / Phi TC on WA33. I have Diana Phi and WA33, and Diana Phi sounds so much better than Susvara (to my ears) that it's not even close



When you got your Diana Phi did you compare it to the 1266 Phi-CC? If so, what were your thoughts? I have the 1266 Phi-CC and was thinking about getting the Diana Phi. Thanks!


----------



## mahesvara

I don't have the Phi CC so I can't tell you 

I only mentioned the Phi TC because I've heard from people going to CanJam NY that Phi TC on WA33 is amazing


----------



## waterking

mahesvara said:


> I don't have the Phi CC so I can't tell you
> 
> I only mentioned the Phi TC because I've heard from people going to CanJam NY that Phi TC on WA33 is amazing




Thanks! I am just debating between the Empyrean and the Diana Phi.


----------



## llamaluv (Mar 27, 2019)

mahesvara said:


> Since you live near In Living Stereo, maybe you should ask to try the Abyss Diana Phi / Phi TC on WA33. I have Diana Phi and WA33, and Diana Phi sounds so much better than Susvara (to my ears) that it's not even close


I owned the Phi w/ CC pads for 2-3 months and liked it better on the WA33 compared to the GS-X mk2, which was my other amp at the time. I liked the Phi quite a lot, but never loved it, and preferred the Susvara, so I sold it. I probably wouldn't have if it weren't for my problems with fit, comfort, and ergonomics, but those issues prevented me from fully warming up to it. Regardless, the Susvara is more to my liking based on personal preference. Having both would, naturally, be ideal. 

Edit: The Diana Phi is unfortunately a non-starter for me, as the fit is awful, worse than even the Abyss series.


----------



## innocentblood (Apr 19, 2019)

finally... after 2 years of lusting over it, I was able to get this at a price that I could afford. i was lucky to get my 3 month old, pre-loved bundle of joy @ a 46% discount - that price was just too good to resist. listening to it with my Blu DAVE setup, it is everything that I remember it to be. coincidentally, the first time I listed to the Abyss 1266 Phi last year was on this same setup @ Can Jam Singapore. that led me to get a pre-loved Phi which was also too good to resist at that price point for me. the WA33 came with stock tubes - which was how I fell in love with it the first time - and I swapped out the rectifier for a spare WE422A that I got when I was upgrading the tubes last year on my still existing WA22. i plan to get thoroughly familiar with the sound that this set of tubesproduce before eventually getting some upgrade tubes. besides Woo Audio, what other sites would you guys recommend for upgrade tubes? thank you and enjoy your music


----------



## joseph69

innocentblood said:


> finally... after 2 years of lusting over it, I was able to get this at a price that I could afford. i was lucky to get my 3 month old, pre-loved bundle of joy @ a 46% discount - that price was just too good to resist. listening to it with my Blu DAVE setup, it is everything that I remember it to be. coincidentally, the first time I listed to the Abyss 1266 Phi last year was on this same setup @ Can Jam Singapore. that led me to get a pre-loved Phi which was also too good to resist at that price point for me. the WA33 came with stock tubes - which was how I fell in love with it the first time - and I swapped out the rectifier for a spare WE422A that I got when I was upgrading the tubes last year on my still existing WA22. i plan to get thoroughly familiar with the sound that this set of tubesproduce before eventually getting some upgrade tubes. besides Woo Audio, what other sites would you guys recommend for upgrade tubes? thank you and enjoy your music


Congratulations & enjoy!
I was listening to GNR Lies last night, sounds fantastic with the WA33.


----------



## kyle1010 (Apr 20, 2019)

innocentblood said:


> finally... after 2 years of lusting over it, I was able to get this at a price that I could afford. i was lucky to get my 3 month old, pre-loved bundle of joy @ a 46% discount - that price was just too good to resist. listening to it with my Blu DAVE setup, it is everything that I remember it to be. coincidentally, the first time I listed to the Abyss 1266 Phi last year was on this same setup @ Can Jam Singapore. that led me to get a pre-loved Phi which was also too good to resist at that price point for me. the WA33 came with stock tubes - which was how I fell in love with it the first time - and I swapped out the rectifier for a spare WE422A that I got when I was upgrading the tubes last year on my still existing WA22. i plan to get thoroughly familiar with the sound that this set of tubesproduce before eventually getting some upgrade tubes. besides Woo Audio, what other sites would you guys recommend for upgrade tubes? thank you and enjoy your music



Congrats! Took me 2yrs of lusting and a discount to finally buy 33 as well. I’m still on stock tubes also with the exception of a WE422A from my old WA22. Honestly, I don’t love the 422A in the 33 with the other stock tubes though. I think it sounds kinda muddy. Are you experiencing that? I swapped it out for a sophia princess I had laying around and while the highs cleared up, the bass and mids thin out and the whole presentation is less euphonic or “tubey”. I think this is because I had far better power and driver tubes in the 22 (Sylvania metal base 6SN7s and TS5998s). Like you, I fell for the WA33 two years ago at CanJam SoCal but it had KR 2A3s and the Takatsuki 274b rectifier. I’ll probably end up buying that combo for starters cuz most other matched quads of 2A3s are a serious pain to track down and honestly WA33 is so unbelievably good either way that I don’t feel the need to really chase after tubes like I did with the WA22.

You’re at a serious endgame setup there. I’ve heard Blu/Dave solo a couple times but never on the 33. I bet that’s wild. I’ve also owned a solo Dave but sold it for TT2 cuz I really like it’s richer tonality. I’m very happy with TT2 as dac for now and might pick up a used or discounted HMS in the future, but no rush. I am however, going to audition the Phi TC vs my LCD-4 on a WA33 at CanJam soon and might end up getting that headphone if the reviews and impressions are in line with what I hear. Thus far, WA33 and standard Abyss Phi is the best combo I’ve ever heard in headphones period so I’m very excited to check out TC.


----------



## innocentblood

kyle1010 said:


> Congrats! Took me 2yrs of lusting and a discount to finally buy 33 as well. I’m still on stock tubes also with the exception of a WE422A from my old WA22. Honestly, I don’t love the 422A in the 33 with the other stock tubes though. I think it sounds kinda muddy. Are you experiencing that? I swapped it out for a sophia princess I had laying around and while the highs cleared up, the bass and mids thin out and the whole presentation is less euphonic or “tubey”. I think this is because I had far better power and driver tubes in the 22 (Sylvania metal base 6SN7s and TS5998s). Like you, I fell for the WA33 two years ago at CanJam SoCal but it had KR 2A3s and the Takatsuki 274b rectifier. I’ll probably end up buying that combo for starters cuz most other matched quads of 2A3s are a serious pain to track down and honestly WA33 is so unbelievably good either way that I don’t feel the need to really chase after tubes like I did with the WA22.
> 
> You’re at a serious endgame setup there. I’ve heard Blu/Dave solo a couple times but never on the 33. I bet that’s wild. I’ve also owned a solo Dave but sold it for TT2 cuz I really like it’s richer tonality. I’m very happy with TT2 as dac for now and might pick up a used or discounted HMS in the future, but no rush. I am however, going to audition the Phi TC vs my LCD-4 on a WA33 at CanJam soon and might end up getting that headphone if the reviews and impressions are in line with what I hear. Thus far, WA33 and standard Abyss Phi is the best combo I’ve ever heard in headphones period so I’m very excited to check out TC.



thank you kyle - I am currently using my WA33 (422A rectifier and stock tubes) with my Abyss 1266 Phi with the SC cables. I did not notice the sound to be "muddy" - but what do you mean by "muddy" anyways? the thing that was immediately noticeable to me was how much bass I was hearing - and i am unsure whether this is a good thing or not  the sheer amount of bass was not apparent to me on the WA22. on the WA22, I am using these tubes: Western Electric 422A rectifier, 2 x Western Electric 421A power and 2 x Sylvania 6SN7W Metal Base driver tubes. the sound on the WA22 with this particular set of tubes is glorious to my ears. 

today i swapped out the WE422A rectifier and put in the stock rectifier in the WA33. from what I can hear so far, there is no immediately noticeable difference to my ears.


----------



## kyle1010

innocentblood said:


> thank you kyle - I am currently using my WA33 (422A rectifier and stock tubes) with my Abyss 1266 Phi with the SC cables. I did not notice the sound to be "muddy" - but what do you mean by "muddy" anyways? the thing that was immediately noticeable to me was how much bass I was hearing - and i am unsure whether this is a good thing or not  the sheer amount of bass was not apparent to me on the WA22. on the WA22, I am using these tubes: Western Electric 422A rectifier, 2 x Western Electric 421A power and 2 x Sylvania 6SN7W Metal Base driver tubes. the sound on the WA22 with this particular set of tubes is glorious to my ears.
> 
> today i swapped out the WE422A rectifier and put in the stock rectifier in the WA33. from what I can hear so far, there is no immediately noticeable difference to my ears.


I think I meant muddy in comparison to the Sophia princess which is a noticeably brighter rectifier. The 422a also has a narrower soundstage than the Sophia but much sweeter highs and better depth. Just now, I had a listening sesh with the 422a to confirm, but I swapped in my Wireworld silver power cable and wow that opened things up. 422a sounds far better with that power cable. Electricity is weird man lol. Now I’m sitting here looking at the stock 2A3s like their days are numbered. I gotta get my hands on those KR 2A3s and soon. I still have a pair of EH gold pin 6C45s from my WA7 which I didn’t like in that amp, but since it’s a relatively cheap itch to scratch I’m gonna order another pair to have a quad to try in the 33. 

In my WA22 I had a very similar tube compliment. WE422a, Sylvania metal base 6SN7Ws, and Tung Sol 5998 power tubes. Yup, glorious sound, just nowhere near the detail retrieval of WA33 obviously. Anyway, thanks for making me give a second listen to the 422a in the 33. I’ve read the Takatsuki 274b sounds almost identical to it but the curiosity is still killing me, I’ll have to get that too and sell whichever is the lesser tube. Which 33 tube upgrades are you shooting for if any?


----------



## musicman59

Guys,
Have any of you had the chance to compare the sound of the standard WA33 against the WA33 Elite version?
I am really struggling to justify the extra $7k in cost.


----------



## macx

musicman59 said:


> Guys,
> Have any of you had the chance to compare the sound of the standard WA33 against the WA33 Elite version?
> I am really struggling to justify the extra $7k in cost.


Isn’t that the magic question, I struggled too... but in the end I am happy, very happy.


----------



## musicman59

macx said:


> Isn’t that the magic question, I struggled too... but in the end I am happy, very happy.


Wow! You have both, the WA33 Elite and the WA5-LE mk2?


----------



## macx

musicman59 said:


> Wow! You have both, the WA33 Elite and the WA5-LE mk2?


Oops, never revoked that from signature, no I don’t have the wa5 anymore


----------



## kyle1010

New tubes in today. So far vs stock 2A3s & Sophia rectifier...far smoother highs, richer tone, but narrower soundstage. I wonder if any of these new ones “open up” over time. I am still running the stock 6C45s though. Maybe the EH golds are worth a shot. Didn’t like them in the WA7 but still have the pair so I could just buy 2 more why not. Sophia is probably the widest sounding rectifier I’ve owned so idk if even the Takatsuki can compete in that regard. However, I don’t miss the Sophia’s occasional scratchy treble that makes me skip tracks to find less bright tunes.


----------



## isquirrel (May 17, 2019)

Great info on this forum.

I have a 4 month old WA 33 Elite for sale with the 4 x KR 2A3 Power tubes and the Gold Harmonix and a KR HP 274B rectifier. It is as new and is sitting in its box not being used.

PM me if your looking for one.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

musicman59 said:


> Guys,
> Have any of you had the chance to compare the sound of the standard WA33 against the WA33 Elite version?
> I am really struggling to justify the extra $7k in cost.



Standard model has the most bang for the money right out of the box but if you are seeking the highest performance, go with the Elite and don't need to look back.


----------



## waterking

Hey Mike! Don't step too hard on us "standard" owners! We are loving our '33's!


----------



## nomad777

macx said:


> Pulling the trigger on a WA33 Elite, my poor wallet....



It's worth it... the detail is so high you'll almost think its a solid state.. and you can always modify the sound with tubes later on...


----------



## nomad777

kyle1010 said:


> Do any of you guys use upgraded power cables with the WA33 and notice any difference in the sound? I’ve been using a standard universal plug you’d find in use on any regular receiver or amplifier, but I know the Woo Audio guys always use a nice fat upgraded power cable with the WA33 at shows and swear it’s pretty much “mandatory” to get peak performance. Can anyone attest to any improvements with better power cables? I live in a very new building with very clean power as far as I know so conditioning isn’t really an issue, I’m just wondering if the larger gauge upgrade cables with better conductive materials make a difference if they do in fact deliver more power or current.




power cables "always" make difference.... better cables better sound....


----------



## kyle1010

nomad777 said:


> power cables "always" make difference.... better cables better sound....


Well this is an old one, yeah, bought a WireWorld Silver Electra 7 power cable and the effortlessness to the sound definitely went up a noticeable amount. If not I would’ve returned it. Great purchase.


----------



## nomad777

I use less loss cables which give a pure sound which I like... and also use very expensive 7n silver cables for other components....


----------



## Ciggavelli

chaojiliqilin said:


> Sorry for my ambiguity. Let me make it clear. There are two types of noise I can hear.
> 1. The buzzing noise coming from the amp itself. After I power WA33 on, the machine itself will keep making noise. I sit about 1m away and this type of noise is quite annoying.
> 
> 2. The buzzing noise heard from the headphone. If I use my Abyss phi, then I cannot hear the noise. But if I use sony CD-900st, even if I turn the volume to the minimum, I can hear the noise from the headphones.
> ...


My WA33 is buzzing (as in the amp itself). It’s fairly loud. Did you ever find a solution?

Has anybody else found a way to reduce or eliminate the buzz coming from the WA33, itself?


----------



## joseph69

What rectifier tube are you using?


----------



## Ciggavelli

joseph69 said:


> What rectifier tube are you using?


Interesting you mention that.  Matter of fact, I think this buzzing started after installing the Takatsuki ta274b:

https://wooaudio.com/tubes/takatsuki-ta274b-each

I really like the sound of the Taktsuki, so if buzzing is a tradeoff, I guess I'll just get used to it.  Is that what is happening?

I'm just worried if something is wrong with my amp.  I'll try the stock rectifier tube tomorrow and see what happens.

Thanks!


----------



## joseph69 (Nov 8, 2019)

So, using the stock issue rectifier my amp buzzed, and while the Brimar 5Z4GY it is dead silent! I don't choose to use either of these, I choose to use the UE 596 which buzzes too, but it doesn't bother me because I know it's the rectifier and not the amp.


----------



## chaojiliqilin

Ciggavelli said:


> My WA33 is buzzing (as in the amp itself). It’s fairly loud. Did you ever find a solution?
> 
> Has anybody else found a way to reduce or eliminate the buzz coming from the WA33, itself?



Not solved. I did send the amp back to factory and replaced the power supply. I tried different tubes and nothing changed. Now this amp is eating dust on my shelf.


----------



## Ciggavelli

chaojiliqilin said:


> Not solved. I did send the amp back to factory and replaced the power supply. I tried different tubes and nothing changed. Now this amp is eating dust on my shelf.


Hmm...I guess this might be an issue with the design then. Some posters were saying power might be an issue. I tried different cords, on and off the power conditioner. Nothing.  I haven’t tried a power plant though.  I gotta try the old tubes too.

with headphones on and music playing I don’t notice the buzzing. But if I’m using it as a preamp, it’s noticeable. I don’t need a preamp like that at the moment, but it’s something I need to look into.

I appreciate your quick response. I hope I can get this fixed, or at least become okay with the buzzing sound


----------



## isquirrel

Ciggavelli said:


> Interesting you mention that.  Matter of fact, I think this buzzing started after installing the Takatsuki ta274b:
> 
> https://wooaudio.com/tubes/takatsuki-ta274b-each
> 
> ...



I have never had buzzing on my WA33 after installing the Tak 274B in fact I thought it is one of the quietest tubes.I have never had any buzzing from my WA33, I would look at the driver tubes 1st and try changing them from one channel to the other.


----------



## joseph69

isquirrel said:


> I have never had buzzing on my WA33 after installing the Tak 274B in fact I thought it is one of the quietest tubes.I have never had any buzzing from my WA33, I would look at the driver tubes 1st and try changing them from one channel to the other.


I believe he is referring to the ambient noise (buzzing) coming from the amplifier itself.


----------



## chaojiliqilin

joseph69 said:


> I believe he is referring to the ambient noise (buzzing) coming from the amplifier itself.


I agree. I think the noise comes from the amp not the tube, which I wrote 1 year ago.


----------



## isquirrel

It maybe you have a large amount of RFI entering your home, or something electrical in your home is causing this. May I suggest you leave the amp on and then try switching off one by one the various safety switches in your home switchboard. It could be a simple as a defective Fridge motor or A/C.

It can't hurt to experiment like this. I would also try removing the input cables. Are you running the Amp in balanced mode?


----------



## nomad777

the wa33 does buzz.  I did a bunch of things and its pretty much eliminated.   1 I bought noise reduction boards or vibration boards and put them underneath the wa33 I also replaced the stock foot stands with vibration reduction ones.  Then I just played it relentlessly and eventually it went away. 

Also I'll try to describe this... the housing for what you pay for should be better made. It should be a full block of aluminum but its not. Between the power supply (bottom and the top part. etc..

If you put your hand underneath the top part you will find that its just a thin piece of metal. Which is a problem for buzzing... if it was one solid piece you would not have buzzing at all.  So I basically would put my hand underneath the top part and the bottom piece of metal can be moved which; kinda cheap in my opinion for sure it was made this way to cut costs rather than one solid piece. So I would press underneath there at times and it would help with the buzzing. So you can try and put something underneath there to stabilize the bottom part of the top piece and that should help. Eventually I didn't have to as I changed tubes and with the vibration items I have it eventually went away. 

I have the elite version but the body is the same on both models....


----------



## nomad777

musicman59 said:


> Guys,
> Have any of you had the chance to compare the sound of the standard WA33 against the WA33 Elite version?
> I am really struggling to justify the extra $7k in cost.



The elite version is completely superior night and day ... not even a comparison... Ferrari vs. Honda


----------



## Ciggavelli

joseph69 said:


> I believe he is referring to the ambient noise (buzzing) coming from the amplifier itself.



Yes, correct.  The amp itself is buzzing



chaojiliqilin said:


> I agree. I think the noise comes from the amp not the tube, which I wrote 1 year ago.



Yes, exactly



nomad777 said:


> the wa33 does buzz.  I did a bunch of things and its pretty much eliminated.   1 I bought noise reduction boards or vibration boards and put them underneath the wa33 I also replaced the stock foot stands with vibration reduction ones.  Then I just played it relentlessly and eventually it went away.
> 
> Also I'll try to describe this... the housing for what you pay for should be better made. It should be a full block of aluminum but its not. Between the power supply (bottom and the top part. etc..
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info!  I'm glad to hear that my amp is probably not broken.  I will try your suggestions.


----------



## nomad777

also tubes.... I also changed them and that also helped...   SHUGUANG TREASURE 2A3-Z   for the power tubes is what I went with...  I also changed the rectifier kept the stock 4 tubes up front... 

tubes also make a big difference for the buzz....


----------



## nomad777

Ciggavelli said:


> Yes, correct.  The amp itself is buzzing
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I had the same irritation as you when I bought mine I was upset after spending so much money I hear a buzz.... it drove me crazy... one thing to remember is that this amp
produces a lot of power I would not run utopias on it or other headphones that are easily powered they don't sound as good. Planars and harder to drive headphones sound amazing on it. 

I just use the Dave for my utopias and for the hifiman1000 and hd800 I use the amp... 

Could they have designed it better yes... but someone has to pay for Jack and Mikes mortgage and cars....


----------



## joseph69

isquirrel said:


> It maybe you have a large amount of RFI entering your home, or something electrical in your home is causing this. May I suggest you leave the amp on and then try switching off one by one the various safety switches in your home switchboard. It could be a simple as a defective Fridge motor or A/C.





isquirrel said:


> It can't hurt to experiment like this. I would also try removing the input cables. Are you running the Amp in balanced mode?


Good idea if you can't resolve the issue bu simply changing tubes (Brimar 5Z4GY rectifier in my case = dead silent) which let me know there was absolutely nothing wrong with AC line or any interference or my amp itself, but again, I still prefer the UE-596 so I can live with the slight buzz.



nomad777 said:


> I also replaced the stock foot stands with vibration reduction ones. So I would press underneath there at times and it would help with the buzzing. .


Before changing the rectifier tube I also tried the isolator feet which did nothing at all for me. I also experimented with pressing the top plate of the PSU case and found the same results, but again, the 5Z4GY was dead silent.



nomad777 said:


> The elite version is completely superior night and day ... not even a comparison... Ferrari vs. Honda


Besides the different externals & internals have you compared both with the same tubes on the same gear with the same headphones extensively? If so, would you care to elaborate the "night & day difference"?



nomad777 said:


> I had the same irritation as you when I bought mine I was upset after spending so much money I hear a buzz.... it drove me crazy... one thing to remember is that this amp
> produces a lot of power I would not run utopias on it or other headphones that are easily powered they don't sound as good. Planars and harder to drive headphones sound amazing on it.


I find my Utopia to be an excellent combo with the WA33, as well as all of my headphones and any headphone I've ever paired with it.


----------



## nomad777 (Nov 8, 2019)

The utopias work but I find they are to sensitive for this amp... I find better sq on the solid state overkill for the utopias...

I've compared both...  the elite is just far superior .. and I mean way superior   superman vs. captain america    bugatti vs. Ford   aston martin vs. Hyundai    Mclaren p1 vs. mustang 
human vs. ant      clarity, soundstage, detail , precision,   the stock one sounds dull compared to the elite ...  its not just parts  it also has point to point wiring the regular does not.
Because the sound is so clean and precise sometimes its easy to forget its a tube amp. The regular one you know its a tube amp....

I talked to Jack extensively about the differences; just don't want to elaborate all of them here... but its vastly better......  is the 15K price justified..... hmm...  I guess that depends on how deep your pockets are ...

Also if you don't have the elite I don't want to make those of you that could not afford or just went for the regular one feel out of place because the stock one is still excellent but not in the same league as the elite version...     If you ever see an elite for sale and you have the means... its definitely worth a look

might look at that 5Z... in the future...


----------



## musicman59

nomad777 said:


> The utopias work but I find they are to sensitive for this amp... I find better sq on the solid state overkill for the utopias...
> ...


I own the Utopia (not the WA33 or Elite version) and the first time I listened to them with the Axios AG cable powered by the WA33 Elite my jaw dropped. That's the best I have heard the Utopia. I bought the Axios AG cable for mine and got close to the sound I heard with the WA33 Elite but not 100% there.
The bass at the beginning of Sting's A Thousand Years was just thunderous, tight and clean. Those who say the Utopia has no bass should listen to that combination.


----------



## nomad777 (Nov 8, 2019)

musicman59 said:


> I own the Utopia (not the WA33 or Elite version) and the first time I listened to them with the Axios AG cable powered by the WA33 Elite my jaw dropped. That's the best I have heard the Utopia. I bought the Axios AG cable for mine and got close to the sound I heard with the WA33 Elite but not 100% there.
> The bass at the beginning of Sting's A Thousand Years was just thunderous, tight and clean. Those who say the Utopia has no bass should listen to that combination.



the utopias like the hd800 have a 6mhz issue or khz can't remember..... if the wa 33 elite is the best you have heard the utopias that is not my experience and I own both.

I find it more clear and solid on the chord dave via the mscaler without the use of the wa33

As for bass the utopia can't and doesn't compete with the hd800's or hifiman1000's   and the hifiman1000's sound better on the wa33 elite than the utopia's    in all areas...     the hd800's hmm bass is better of course soundstage... and just about matches it for detail 

What I like about the utopia's is that they are very easy to drive i think 8ohms you can play them off on ipad if you wanted to...  i also own the clears  so I do like the utopia brand   however on the wa33 elite hifiman1000's rule there... I don't own a pair of susvara's but curious about them...   I'm targeting getting a pari of abyss tc's tl's whatever they are called next...


----------



## Ciggavelli

nomad777 said:


> the utopias like the hd800 have a 6mhz issue or khz can't remember..... if the wa 33 elite is the best you have heard the utopias that is not my experience and I own both.
> 
> I find it more clear and solid on the chord dave via the mscaler without the use of the wa33
> 
> ...


I have Susvaras and TCs and run them off the Standard WA33.  They both sound absolutely amazing.  Somebody else mentioned that he can't tell which headphone is better, because they are both so good.  I have to agree.  The TCs off the WA33 have the best bass, weight, separation, clarity I've ever heard (bass is much better off the WA33 than just using my TT2/HMS combo).  The impact, weight, combined with very good timing has left me speechless on some songs.  I dunno how the TCs can hit so low and powerful, but at the same time remain quick (maybe it has something to do with my cabling...I don't know ).

The Susvaras off the WA33 sound magical, the mids are so so good.  I think the best word to describe them is luxurious.  Rock and Metal sound so unbelievably good that I question if anything could sound better with different equipment.

So, I've been going Susvara through the WA33 for quieter music (indie, singer/songwriter), metal and rock.  I use the TCs for everything, but hip-hop and electronica sound much better on the TCs than the Susvaras.  Rock and Metal sound good, but not at the same level as the Susvaras.  If I'm searching for heft weight in a rock or metal sound, the TCs fit the bill perfectly.


----------



## nomad777

Ciggavelli said:


> I have Susvaras and TCs and run them off the Standard WA33.  They both sound absolutely amazing.  Somebody else mentioned that he can't tell which headphone is better, because they are both so good.  I have to agree.  The TCs off the WA33 have the best bass, weight, separation, clarity I've ever heard (bass is much better off the WA33 than just using my TT2/HMS combo).  The impact, weight, combined with very good timing has left me speechless on some songs.  I dunno how the TCs can hit so low and powerful, but at the same time remain quick (maybe it has something to do with my cabling...I don't know ).
> 
> The Susvaras off the WA33 sound magical, the mids are so so good.  I think the best word to describe them is luxurious.  Rock and Metal sound so unbelievably good that I question if anything could sound better with different equipment.
> 
> So, I've been going Susvara through the WA33 for quieter music (indie, singer/songwriter), metal and rock.  I use the TCs for everything, but hip-hop and electronica sound much better on the TCs than the Susvaras.  Rock and Metal sound good, but not at the same level as the Susvaras.  If I'm searching for heft weight in a rock or metal sound, the TCs fit the bill perfectly.




hmm when Im ready to buy it will be the TC's....     I just spent a bunch of cash on cx/ex antipodes combo... so giving the wallet a rest for now


----------



## joseph69

musicman59 said:


> Those who say the Utopia has no bass should listen to that combination.


I agree 100% about the Utopia having excellent bass quality & quantity, but in my case using the XLR WireWorld Nano-Platinum Eclipse & WA33.




nomad777 said:


> the utopias like the hd800 have a 6mhz issue or khz can't remember..... if the wa 33 elite is the best you have heard the utopias that is not my experience and I own both.
> I find it more clear and solid on the chord dave via the mscaler without the use of the wa33





nomad777 said:


> As for bass the utopia can't and doesn't compete with the hd800's or hifiman1000's   and the hifiman1000's sound better on the wa33 elite than the utopia's    in all areas...     the hd800's hmm bass is better of course soundstage... and just about matches it for detail
> 
> What I like about the utopia's is that they are very easy to drive i think 8ohms you can play them off on ipad if you wanted to...  i also own the clears  so I do like the utopia brand   however on the wa33 elite hifiman1000's rule there... I don't own a pair of susvara's but curious about them...   I'm targeting getting a pari of abyss tc's tl's whatever they are called next...


I also own the GS-Xmk2 which I pair with the Utopia as well and do like the pairing very much for a different flavor depending on my mood, so I understand where you're coming from in regards to a SS pairing. I've also heard the Utopia via DAVE + M-Scaler and found it to be an excellent pairing as well.

I owned the Susvara for a while and did enjoy them very much, but in the end I sold them because I actually preferred my HE1Kv2 with both, my GS-X & WA33. Also, it wasn't a question of under powering the Susvara (which I thought it may have been) because I also had the opportunity to hear them on the Pass Labs X150.8 speaker amp which confirmed (for me) that I wasn't missing anything. I find the bass on the Utopia to be tighter, faster, cleaner and just as deep as the HE1Kv2...I enjoy both headphones very much for their differences.


----------



## nomad777

When I spoke to Jack in person he mentioned the PSvanes are the best tubes for "quite" sound eg.. eliminates buzzing...  for those of you struggling with that.


----------



## nomad777

Do any of you own the Utopia and the Abyss TC? What are your thoughts I'm curious how the sound signature stacks up against the TC      There are a lot of people saying the TC is the best headphone on the market but they said that about the utopia to.


----------



## isquirrel

I own both, The Abyss TC is far superior to the Utopia. I t needs plenty of power, the WA33 is perfectly able to drive the TC to deafening levels.

I have a Kennerton Thror on the way, it will be an interesting comparison between the three TOTL contendors:

Abyss TC
Susvara
Kennerton Thror


----------



## JLoud

I would be interested in that comparison. I have the Tc and had and sold the Utopia. I felt the Tc did everything the Utopia did but with a bigger soundstage and much deeper harder hitting bass. Have been curious about the Susvara for a while.


----------



## chaojiliqilin

nomad777 said:


> When I spoke to Jack in person he mentioned the PSvanes are the best tubes for "quite" sound eg.. eliminates buzzing...  for those of you struggling with that.


Thank you! I indeed bought the PSv tubes from wooaudio and it did not help.
I also guess Jack is talking about the buzzing/noise at audio output stage(what you hear in your headphones)  but not the amp itself. The later one is our concern.


----------



## nomad777

isquirrel said:


> I own both, The Abyss TC is far superior to the Utopia. I t needs plenty of power, the WA33 is perfectly able to drive the TC to deafening levels.
> 
> I have a Kennerton Thror on the way, it will be an interesting comparison between the three TOTL contendors:
> 
> ...



Great thanks for the info


----------



## nomad777

chaojiliqilin said:


> Thank you! I indeed bought the PSv tubes from wooaudio and it did not help.
> I also guess Jack is talking about the buzzing/noise at audio output stage(what you hear in your headphones)  but not the amp itself. The later one is our concern.



hmm I found that as I just played it for hours on end that went away....


----------



## BreadMaster

musicman59 said:


> I own the Utopia (not the WA33 or Elite version) and the first time I listened to them with the Axios AG cable powered by the WA33 Elite my jaw dropped. That's the best I have heard the Utopia. I bought the Axios AG cable for mine and got close to the sound I heard with the WA33 Elite but not 100% there.
> The bass at the beginning of Sting's A Thousand Years was just thunderous, tight and clean. Those who say the Utopia has no bass should listen to that combination.


Still doesn’t beat your 009 setup though


----------



## pippen99

Delivered 12/27/2019.  Woo WA33 Elite Edition.  EH 6C45 and Takatsuki TA-274B upgrade.  Still awaiting deliver of EML 2A3 Mesh form Germany.  About 30 hours in and sounds great.  Just wish the EMLs were here to burn in at the same time.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

pippen99 said:


> Delivered 12/27/2019.  Woo WA33 Elite Edition.  EH 6C45 and Takatsuki TA-274B upgrade.  Still awaiting deliver of EML 2A3 Mesh form Germany.  About 30 hours in and sounds great.  Just wish the EMLs were here to burn in at the same time.



Beautiful...  The sound of the tubes will improve with every use.


----------



## justonwo

Has anyone had a chance to audition the JPS version vs the Elite version? I would guess not. Any idea how different they sound?


----------



## joseph69

justonwo said:


> Has anyone had a chance to audition the JPS version vs the Elite version? I would guess not. Any idea how different they sound?


The Woo Audio WA33 comes in a 'standard' & 'elite' version.


----------



## justonwo

joseph69 said:


> The Woo Audio WA33 comes in a 'standard' & 'elite' version.



Hey Joseph,

JPS also offers their own flavors of the WA33 which is an in-betweener. It also appears to offer upgraded power tubes. Looks like JPS does their own take on some of the internals.

https://abyss-headphones.com/collec...oo-audio-wa33-headphone-amplifier-jps-edition


----------



## joseph69

justonwo said:


> Hey Joseph,
> 
> JPS also offers their own flavors of the WA33 which is an in-betweener. It also appears to offer upgraded power tubes. Looks like JPS does their own take on some of the internals.


Apologies. I had no idea JPS had their own edition of the WA33. Seems it's only their (JPS) wiring and partner upgraded KR power & rectifier tubes.


----------



## matthewhypolite (Jan 20, 2020)

justonwo said:


> Hey Joseph,
> 
> JPS also offers their own flavors of the WA33 which is an in-betweener. It also appears to offer upgraded power tubes. Looks like JPS does their own take on some of the internals.
> 
> https://abyss-headphones.com/collec...oo-audio-wa33-headphone-amplifier-jps-edition



It is my understanding the the Elite version on Woo's site also has the Alumiloy® wiring. I could be wrong, but i remember joe saying that to me when i was first looking at the WA33 EE.

Also, based on the pricing, the JPS version looks like a regular WA33 with the upgraded wiring and the tube upgrades. So i'm guessing an Elite WA33 (which to my knowledge has the upgraded wiring) has other upgraded components, with the KR HP Tube set and gold pins EH would outperform the JPS version, albiet coming in around $19k vs the JPS' $13k version.


----------



## isquirrel

matthewhypolite said:


> It is my understanding the the Elite version on Woo's site also has the Alumiloy® wiring. I could be wrong, but i remember joe saying that to me when i was first looking at the WA33 EE.
> 
> Also, based on the pricing, the JPS version looks like a regular WA33 with the upgraded wiring and the tube upgrades. So i'm guessing an Elite WA33 (which to my knowledge has the upgraded wiring) has other upgraded components, with the KR HP Tube set and gold pins EH would outperform the JPS version, albiet coming in around $19k vs the JPS' $13k version.



That is not correct sorry. Woo Audio's WA 33 Elite does not use JPS wiring. Only the JPS version does. The JPS versions also comes with a recommended upgrade of the KR 2A3 HP tubes which JPS Labs helped develop with KR, in fact it was more a case of built to order spec. JPS Labs did the metallurgy and changed the spec, they bias the same, but I can directly attest to the fact that the KR 2A3's do not sound as good as the KR 2A3 HP's, which IMHO are amongst the best tubes new production tubes for the WA 33. Also worth a mention are the EML 2A3 tubes in either Mesh or Plate versions. EML offer a 5 year guarantee on their tubes which make them a good proposition. 

I have both the Mesh and the Plate versions of the EML's, however I could not tell which sounds best as I no longer have my WA 33 Elite and I never got to try them. They are still sitting in their boxes.


----------



## matthewhypolite

isquirrel said:


> That is not correct sorry. Woo Audio's WA 33 Elite does not use JPS wiring. Only the JPS version does. The JPS versions also comes with a recommended upgrade of the KR 2A3 HP tubes which JPS Labs helped develop with KR, in fact it was more a case of built to order spec. JPS Labs did the metallurgy and changed the spec, they bias the same, but I can directly attest to the fact that the KR 2A3's do not sound as good as the KR 2A3 HP's, which IMHO are amongst the best tubes new production tubes for the WA 33. Also worth a mention are the EML 2A3 tubes in either Mesh or Plate versions. EML offer a 5 year guarantee on their tubes which make them a good proposition.
> 
> I have both the Mesh and the Plate versions of the EML's, however I could not tell which sounds best as I no longer have my WA 33 Elite and I never got to try them. They are still sitting in their boxes.



Noted. Interesting, the question i have now is, which sounds better, Woo's WA33 EE or the JPS version. As mentioned before i am guessing JPS version is based off standard WA33 due to the price.
Also i have the 274B HR HP in my amp now, and i also got the quad 2A3 HPs, but 1 of the tubes arrived bad, a replacement set is stuck in customs at the moment, hoping to get them this week.

How does the EML stuff compare to the KR HPs though? not sure if you got around to a comparison.


----------



## isquirrel

matthewhypolite said:


> Noted. Interesting, the question i have now is, which sounds better, Woo's WA33 EE or the JPS version. As mentioned before i am guessing JPS version is based off standard WA33 due to the price.
> Also i have the 274B HR HP in my amp now, and i also got the quad 2A3 HPs, but 1 of the tubes arrived bad, a replacement set is stuck in customs at the moment, hoping to get them this week.
> 
> How does the EML stuff compare to the KR HPs though? not sure if you got around to a comparison.



Ah now that's a PM discussion based on other people's feedback, not sure if even appropriate that I even speculate, its the old story if I haven't heard it myself, then I probably shouldn't be dishing out opinions about it. PM me and we can do the loop.


----------



## justonwo

I guess one might also throw in the question about how the Formula S - another amp that appears to be developed specifically for the Abyss - compares to the WA33. I want to make sure the bass and sub bass is nice and tight on the WA33 and that the coloration isn’t overly warm. I don’t over-value bass but I like it to be ample and realistic.


----------



## mahesvara

isquirrel said:


> Woo Audio's WA 33 Elite does not use JPS wiring. Only the JPS version does



This is correct ... but it's not like it can't happen. I know it can, because I received a WA33 EE with JPS wiring last week.

The impression below is cross-posted here with minor modification from Headphones.com forum, where I posted the original impression. As of this moment, my WA33 EE with JPS wiring is the only of its kind. I’m sure now that this exists, more people would ask Jack Wu, whom I consider a very good friend, for the same thing. And to me, every dollar I paid for this beautiful beast here is absolutely worth it. Which lead me to the disclaimer: this is not a review unit, or one given in exchange for honest opinion. I paid for it with my own money and I don’t have any skin in the game 

The idea first occurred to me the first time I saw that Abyss Headphones (which is part of JPS Labs, which produces high end cables and power cords) sells their own version of my beloved WA33 Standard Edition, but priced differently because they asked Jack to build with all JPS-Alumiloy internal wiring. Jack Wu told me Joe from Abyss said that the Alumiloy wiring makes everything sound smoother.

So the curious me asked Jack, half jokingly, if an Ultimate WA33, an Elite Edition with Alumiloy can be build. Jack said yes and told me in which additional way such an edition would sound different from a Standard Edition. I resisted it for a while … but eventually my wallet cried a stream of green blood. Ka-ching-ching-ching-ching.




 

As I mentioned above, I used to own a WA33 Standard Edition, and though this may sound conceited and may just be my personal preference, I’ve not heard anything that sounds better than my Abyss Diana Phi on the WA33 SE. My new EE essentially told me “Hold my tubes!” If you want to know what it is that the regular EE has that the SE doesn’t, you should head over to wooaudio.com and find out.

My setup is relatively simple. My Sony HAP-ZH1ES is my transport, which feeds my WA33 EE JPS through balanced XLR JPS interconnects, and a PS Audio P5 Powerplant feeds both with regenerated power. I don’t stream music, being a believer in off-line files only  I have the Takatsuki 274B rectifier tubes, PSVANE 2A3 power tubes, and 6C45Pi ElectroHarmonix driver tubes. These tubes were also what I used with my old Standard Edition.



 

The moment I plugged my Diana Phi into the amp, I was just struck by how absolute a control the amp has over the music. Everything that flows out of the headphones was graceful, effortless, and natural. I’m a J-Pop junkie, so I don’t think many are familiar with the music I listen to, but damn, any doubt I had about spending upwards of 10 grands vanished as soon as I heard the music.

The WA33 SE I had was very good, no doubt about it. It was just that the EE is so much better. My WA33 EE is a tube amp throug and through but it doesn’t sound like a tube amp at all in the sense that people likely think. The EE *is not artificially lush and overly warm*. The EE is like a solid state amp with abundant power and slam but without a cold and sharp edge at the top. It is transparent … and it sounds correct.



 

The bass of the EE is clean, deep, precise, and textured. One of the rare English songs I listened to was the “Song of Durin” by Clamavi de Profundis, which is rich with deep baritone and as I listened, I thought I could hear distinctly every rumble of the singers’ voices as they delved lower, and lower, and even lower still.

The mids of the EE are full-bodied and, dare I say, mellifluous. I wonder if you, like me, had wondered about the difference of something sounding digital versus analog. To me, sounding digital means that I hear the artificial “edge” of each musical note. There is no edge with EE. One piano note melts into the next, and the next, and the next. To me, the EE doesn’t just sound analog. It sounds real. There is no hiss. There is no hum. There is nothing alien that I heard from my music. The background is dead quiet despite, again, this being a tube amp!

The EE’s trebles are magnificent. It can reach so high yet never sounds harsh. I don’t know if you are familiar with the sound of an orgel, but when I heard orgel music from the Diana Phi, I thought about how the notes keep extending upward and eventually just melt naturally away instead of rolling off.



 

The image presented by the EE is holographic, and the soundstage huge. But what’s most impressive is neither of them; it’s the depth of the stage. It is so deep I felt as though I could tell which instrument was further away and which one is closer. There is so much air around each instrument, all of them materialized precisely enough in my mind that I could “feel” where they are: front, back, left, right, etc. The female vocal, which is 90% of my music, sounds gorgeous from the EE and so well defined that I could easily picture the singer standing at the front of the stage, with the instruments behind her back.

I won’t pretend as though I noticed any “cons” to the amp. Cost, to me, was not a problem, and I felt that it was worth every dollar I paid. There is yet no weakness that I had perceived. Perhaps there are, and I may find them in the future. Right now, there is none.

I like to begin the end of my length impression (it’s not even a review, as I don’t feel that I am an adequate reviewer) by quoting a real one: “Nobody has to have one of these”. But if you have the money to spare, I would say you should take the jump and purchase one. I’m 100% sure you will love it as much as I do.

This will be the final headphones amp that I would purchase … until Jack Wu came up with something better. Which I think would be really, really, really hard.

PS: A bit more disclaimer here. I’ve known Jack since meeting him at RMAF 2017 and have always thought of him as a friend. I’m sure there are parts of me that are biased, but I tried my best not to be


----------



## WooAudio

I am thrilled to read your impression and thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. Very glad it is working flawlessly. 

To add a bit of background story, @mahesvara owned a standard edition for a year before he receiving his custom made WA33 Elite. We asked him to keep his unit for comparison because we don't often find a moment like this. I am happy that we made it. I have to say curiosity is a huge part of us pushing the envelope in discovering new ways to innovate.


----------



## matthewhypolite

I just rolled in the KR Audio tubes into my WA33 EE and putting them through the paces. One word, WOW!
Cant wait to hear what these monsters do once burnt in.

I've mainly been running the following: Quad NOS RCA 2A3, and Brimar NOS 274B with the EH Gold tubes.
Currently dialed in the KR HP 2A3 Quad and KR HP 274B (with the EH Gold drivers).

Also have the following 274B Rectifier Tubes : Takasuki, WE NOS.

More impressions of the KR Stuff in a couple weeks once they've had some time to burn in.


----------



## justonwo (Jan 22, 2020)

Wow, that amp looks fantastic. I’m very interested, particularly when you guys describe the amp as not adding too much warmth of coloration to the sound. How is this amp for rock?


----------



## matthewhypolite

justonwo said:


> Wow, that amp looks fantastic. I’m very interested, particularly when you guys describe the amp as not adding too much warmth of coloration to the sound. How is this amp for rock?


It's excellent for rock


----------



## pippen99

The EML 2A3 Mesh finally arrived.  Delivery only took 7 weeks.  Germany must be on the other side of the world or something.  After only 3 hours I can tell these are a big upgrade over the stock EH.  I already hear a much tighter bass and subbass and a hint of a larger soundstage.  Right now they are a little buzzy but as EML recommends a burnin of 100-330 hours I expect them to grow out of that.  Really excited for what is to come with my WA33 EE!


----------



## justonwo

matthewhypolite said:


> It's excellent for rock



Excellent! I placed an order today for the Elite JPS version with the silver finish. I’m going to use Nordost XLR interconnects and a Nordost power cable. Should be a nice complement to the Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC that just arrived.


----------



## mahesvara

justonwo said:


> Excellent! I placed an order today for the Elite JPS version with the silver finish



Congrats! I'm 100% sure you'll love the amp.

What are you going to use for transport and source? The EE JPS is really transparent, so you'll need some good upstream gears as well.


----------



## justonwo

I’m still working out where it will go. Perhaps in my office. Perhaps in my home. Either way, it’ll be from my computer via a Shunyata USB cable to a Hugo TT 2 and M Sampler combo. Then Nordost XLR to the WA33. 

At some point, I may integrate it with my Ayre QX-5 Twenty DAC, but we’ll see. Any specific recommendations? I’m certainly open to suggestions.


----------



## innocentblood

is it possible to buy the tubes in the Elite JPS version separately?


----------



## mahesvara

justonwo said:


> Either way, it’ll be from my computer via a Shunyata USB cable to a Hugo TT 2 and M Sampler combo. Then Nordost XLR to the WA33.
> 
> At some point, I may integrate it with my Ayre QX-5 Twenty DAC, but we’ll see. Any specific recommendations? I’m certainly open to suggestions.



Sounds like you are all set for upstream gears. I've only listened to the TT2/MScaler very briefly at CJ SoCal and couldn't really comment on how good they are 

I personally use the Sony HAP-ZH1ES because I like the simplicity of it and also because it sounds really good.


----------



## mahesvara

innocentblood said:


> is it possible to buy the tubes in the Elite JPS version separately?



The EE JPS version only comes with stock tube. So you do need to shell out for upgrade tubes


----------



## HiFiGuy528

innocentblood said:


> is it possible to buy the tubes in the Elite JPS version separately?



Yes, upgrade tubes are optional and can be purchased on our website. 

@mahesvara is using Takatsuki 274B rectifier, Electro Harmoinx 6C45 gold pin driver tubes, and PSVANE 2A3 power tubes.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

pippen99 said:


> The EML 2A3 Mesh finally arrived.  Delivery only took 7 weeks.  Germany must be on the other side of the world or something.  After only 3 hours I can tell these are a big upgrade over the stock EH.  I already hear a much tighter bass and subbass and a hint of a larger soundstage.  Right now they are a little buzzy but as EML recommends a burnin of 100-330 hours I expect them to grow out of that.  Really excited for what is to come with my WA33 EE!



the fun part of tube amps. You can customize the sound for your preference and system.


----------



## joseph69

mahesvara said:


> The EE JPS version only comes with stock tube. So you do need to shell out for upgrade tubes


The JPS (standard edition) comes with upgraded tubes, but the JPS (elite edition) doesn't.

From JPS Labs site;


----------



## mahesvara (Jan 24, 2020)

joseph69 said:


> The JPS (standard edition) comes with upgraded tubes, but the JPS (elite edition) doesn't.



Note that the JPS SE package sold by Abyss is $13K, which provides you with $2K worth of KR power tubes and $280.00 worth of driver tubes. I don't know what 274B rectifier tube they would give since they didn't specify so I wouldn't know the cost. Subtract all that and you know how much it is for _just_ the Standard edition with JPS wiring. Now ask yourself how much the standard edition costs (if you purchase from Woo) in comparison, then you kinda know the cost of adding Alumiloy wires to a Woo amp.

The EE with JPS wiring used to not exist until I asked for it. It's a custom order and not a package like what Abyss offered. Just for giggles, you can ask Abyss for a full package but with the EE instead and see how much they would charge for


----------



## joseph69 (Jan 24, 2020)

mahesvara said:


> The EE with JPS wiring used to not exist until I asked for it. It's a custom order and not a package like what Abyss offered.


I didn't know JPS offered the EE, but now I understand that you custom ordered it. I was under the impression (going by their site) JPS only offered the SE which is why I pointed out it came with the upgraded driver/power tubes.


----------



## AudioDoctor

brbattles said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just one more question:  Has anyone had the opportunity to hear the WA33 vs. Hifiman's EF1000 amp on the Susvaras? Would love to hear your impressions and/or what you have heard from others who have had an opportunity to compare them.
> 
> ...



I also have this question.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

I like to hear the EF1000 too. Looks like the Susvara + EF1000 pkg is now available to preorder now. But I can't find the amp only listing.

https://hifiman.com/products/detail/276


----------



## strolee

I am considering selling my WA33 Elite (Silver version) together with all of the upgraded tubes. I have been listening to my speakers much more often lately and I plan on upgrading my 2 channel system. My headphone listening is just not getting the time and attention that this fantastic headphone amplifier deserves.

If anyone on the Forum has any interest in the WA33 Elite, please PM me for further details/pics etc.


----------



## AudioDoctor

HiFiGuy528 said:


> I like to hear the EF1000 too. Looks like the Susvara + EF1000 pkg is now available to preorder now. But I can't find the amp only listing.
> 
> https://hifiman.com/products/detail/276




If you email them after Feb 2nd (Chinese New Year) they will be glad to get you just the amp...  ha.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

AudioDoctor said:


> If you email them after Feb 2nd (Chinese New Year) they will be glad to get you just the amp...  ha.



Maybe it'll be at CanJam NYC this week. I'll keep an eye out for it. I'll have my personal reference Diana v2 by ABYSS for the audition.


----------



## F208Frank

Hi WA33 owners, do you guys use high or low impedance setting on the WA33 for your Abyss headphones?


----------



## innocentblood

F208Frank said:


> Hi WA33 owners, do you guys use high or low impedance setting on the WA33 for your Abyss headphones?



 I used High for mine when I still had the 1266 Phi with me. with the SC cables, it was a lovely match. I've since sold my 1266 Phi in order to get the 1266 Phi TC sometime soon (I hope!) as I've really missed this pairing.


----------



## mahesvara

F208Frank said:


> Hi WA33 owners, do you guys use high or low impedance setting on the WA33 for your Abyss headphones?



High power, low impedance for my Diana Phi


----------



## Drewligarchy

I just joined the club today. QQ: So as not to blow up my amp, do I set the voltage to 120 or 110 in the US? The instruction sheet says 120 is for 120-130 and 110 is for 110-120.

I'd assume 120 is correct, but think that my voltage probably fluctuates between 115-120.

Thanks!

Edit: US, NYC


----------



## AudioDoctor

Ideally we're 120/60 here in the US, but that's a good question.


----------



## F208Frank

For the record for Abyss users it is low impedence and high gain for the "settings" also for USA it is definitely 120 unless you have massive power issues.


----------



## innocentblood

F208Frank said:


> For the record for Abyss users it is low impedance and high gain for the "settings" also for USA it is definitely 120 unless you have massive power issues.



thank you for the clarification. I'm sorry for giving you incorrect information


----------



## F208Frank (Feb 22, 2020)

No worries. You just gave me what you used that worked OK for you. No biggie. Low or high impedence sounds similar but the "correct number specs" say low impedence. I have OCD. Music sounds better to ME when my OCD is satisfied.

It is quite odd indeed, including the shape of Abyss. But that thing sounds pretty damn good.

Anyone here use Abyss with the HPA4? How would you compare the HPA4 to the Woo?


----------



## Drewligarchy

F208Frank said:


> No worries. You just gave me what you used that worked OK for you. No biggie. Low or high impedence sounds similar but the "correct number specs" say low impedence. I have OCD. Music sounds better to ME when my OCD is satisfied.
> 
> It is quite odd indeed, including the shape of Abyss. But that thing sounds pretty damn good.
> 
> Anyone here use Abyss with the HPA4? How would you compare the HPA4 to the Woo?



This may be new toy syndrome, but I got my Wa33 last night, and I use an Abyss, and it’s the best I have ever heard them sound.

I did the 30 trial of the HPA4 and returned it. I found it a bit dry sounding in front of my Dave/MScaler. Soundstage is much more in your head, textures aren’t as meaty, and tone isn’t as vivid as with the Wa33.

Plus the Woo looks like this:


----------



## F208Frank

Dig the set up, has that Opto DX device made a big difference audibly for you? I saw it at Can Jam and felt it was a very interesting item. I just hesitant to add to my chain as I have so many things already similar to yours.

Lumin Streamer > HMS > DAVE > WA33 > Abyss

^That to me is too many things already as I was always just a DAC/AMP/Headphone sort of guy and then I frequented these forums, sigh.


----------



## Drewligarchy

F208Frank said:


> Dig the set up, has that Opto DX device made a big difference audibly for you? I saw it at Can Jam and felt it was a very interesting item. I just hesitant to add to my chain as I have so many things already similar to yours.
> 
> Lumin Streamer > HMS > DAVE > WA33 > Abyss
> 
> ^That to me is too many things already as I was always just a DAC/AMP/Headphone sort of guy and then I frequented these forums, sigh.



Yes! I am incredibly sensitive to any glare. I got the Wave Stream cable which do an excellent job, are simpler, and will do all you need for most people. The Opto Dx made my setup 100% glare free - but I use the two in combination with an LPS 1.2 and a Ghent DC cable on the receiver side. As it removes some noise that causes intermodulation distortion, I can hear more micro detail and better imaging - especially those details that contribute to room ambiance.


----------



## F208Frank

Anyone try the KR rectifier compared to the Takatsuki Tube?


----------



## F208Frank

Drewligarchy said:


> This may be new toy syndrome, but I got my Wa33 last night, and I use an Abyss, and it’s the best I have ever heard them sound.
> 
> I did the 30 trial of the HPA4 and returned it. I found it a bit dry sounding in front of my Dave/MScaler. Soundstage is much more in your head, textures aren’t as meaty, and tone isn’t as vivid as with the Wa33.
> 
> Plus the Woo looks like this:


Is that 5 inches per rack level or 8？Thanks！


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Drewligarchy said:


> This may be new toy syndrome, but I got my Wa33 last night, and I use an Abyss, and it’s the best I have ever heard them sound.


Were you using the V281 to power them before? How does it compare to the WA33?

Great setup btw!!


----------



## Drewligarchy

Relaxasaurus said:


> Were you using the V281 to power them before? How does it compare to the WA33?
> 
> Great setup btw!!



Thank you! I used an XI Audio Formula S and Powerman which is now for sale. I never loved the Abyss with the v281 for some reason (it's ok), but I love the LCD4 with it - and some other headphones.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Drewligarchy said:


> Thank you! I used an XI Audio Formula S and Powerman which is now for sale. I never loved the Abyss with the v281 for some reason (it's ok), but I love the LCD4 with it - and some other headphones.


The WA33 beats the Formula S for pairing with the Abyss??


----------



## Drewligarchy

Relaxasaurus said:


> The WA33 beats the Formula S for pairing with the Abyss??



I prefer it  with my system- but it's preference. The Formula S is the best solid state I've heard with the Abyss. If you prefer a solid state sound, you may prefer the Formula S. Also, I have Dave + Mscaler and it synergizes better with the Wa33 than the Formula S, because it can be slightly bright / lean. Depending on your DAC the Formula S may work better. As always, YMMV


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Good to know, appreciate the responses! The Woo sounds like a monster


----------



## justonwo

My WA-33 Elite/JPS should be arriving on Tuesday. Can't wait!


----------



## F208Frank (Mar 14, 2020)

Justin after speaking to you months ago, I actually got a really similar set up to you.

Did you order the WA33 Elite JPS Edition via Abyss or Woo Audio?


----------



## justonwo

F208Frank said:


> Justin after speaking to you months ago, I actually got a really similar set up to you.
> 
> Did you order the WA33 Elite JPS Edition via Abyss or Woo Audio?



I ordered direct from Woo. I don't think you can get the JPS Elite from Abyss. I'd rather get it direct from the source anyway to cut out the middleman. If I'm just ordering something online (with no in-person demo), I don't see much point going through a dealer.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

justonwo said:


> I ordered direct from Woo. I don't think you can get the JPS Elite from Abyss. I'd rather get it direct from the source anyway to cut out the middleman. If I'm just ordering something online (with no in-person demo), I don't see much point going through a dealer.



Thank you for the support. We look forward to your pictures and listening impression.


----------



## Roasty

is it possible to let us know the price of the wa33 EE JPS? or we have to email mike @ woo directly?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Roasty said:


> is it possible to let us know the price of the wa33 EE JPS? or we have to email mike @ woo directly?



The JPS edition (standard and Elite) is sold by JPS. Please reach out to @Joe Skubinski at @Abyss Headphones for pricing.


----------



## Roasty

HiFiGuy528 said:


> The JPS edition (standard and Elite) is sold by JPS. Please reach out to @Joe Skubinski at @Abyss Headphones for pricing.



Ah..! Thanks for the info. 
Didn't see the EE jps edition on their website. Will drop them an email when I muster enough courage to plop down the cash..


----------



## mahesvara

Roasty said:


> Will drop them an email when I muster enough courage to plop down the cash..



Abyss takes PayPal credit  

Also, here's a piece of advice valuable to me: you may not get a deal unless you ask for it


----------



## Bonddam

Just joined WA33 club. I had too sell a lot of my toys but well worth it.


----------



## Bonddam

I've decided to sell more stuff as I'm feeling endgame with the Hugo tt2, WA33, and 1266 Phi TC.


----------



## Bonddam

This amp gets hot.... literally. I'm hoping this is normal and not my unit.


----------



## mahesvara

Bonddam said:


> This amp gets hot.... literally. I'm hoping this is normal and not my unit.



Yes. 10W of power and tubes. It does get hot.


----------



## Roasty

Bonddam said:


> Just joined WA33 club. I had too sell a lot of my toys but well worth it.



congrats man! which WA33 version did u get? standard, elite, jps, jps ee?


----------



## F208Frank (Mar 28, 2020)

Deleted.


----------



## joseph69

Bonddam said:


> This amp gets hot.... literally. I'm hoping this is normal and not my unit.


It's normal and not your unit.


----------



## Bonddam

Roasty said:


> congrats man! which WA33 version did u get? standard, elite, jps, jps ee?


I went with standard.


----------



## joseph69

Bonddam said:


> I went with standard.


Although I've never heard any other WA33 but the (standard edition) which I own, you definitely can't go wrong with it.


----------



## F208Frank

What tubes did you end up using? How do they sound?


----------



## joseph69

F208Frank said:


> What tubes did you end up using? How do they sound?


United Electric USAF 596
EML 2A3 (solid plate)
EH 6C45Pi
My WA33 sounds fantastic too me.


----------



## Bonddam

Is this like the biggest headphone amp or is there bigger? It's like close to size of a speaker amp.


----------



## joseph69

Length: 17-3/4"
Width: 10-1/4"
Height: 6-1/2" w/o tubes - w tubes 12-1/2"


----------



## F208Frank (Mar 29, 2020)

It is a big amp but it may not be the biggest, certainly the biggest I owned. It is beautiful though.

It sits on my 4 level rack at the top level/shelf.


----------



## Bonddam

Which tubes give a more solid state sound? I had the ZMF Pendant which was close in sound(less tube) to ss.
Do the stock tubes give a warm sound?


----------



## Bonddam

Here’s my setup.


----------



## joseph69

Does anyone have experience with both, the EML 2A3 S & KR 2A3 signature differences?


----------



## Bonddam

I'm surprised that the internals don't melt from the high temp. Is this amp just one big heat sink? It's a little nerve racking that something could fail down the road from the heat.


----------



## F208Frank

Yeah it gets hot like that, I get little worried myself, but I figure for such an expensive item, they must have had it figured out... hope Woo Audio can chime in!


----------



## Bonddam

Can you live with just upgrading the power tubes or is it better to start at one of the others? I'd be buying from Woo to be covered under warranty.


----------



## mahesvara

Most of the heat you feel are from the tubes. You know, there are 9 of them. I stand pretty close to my WA33 in a well ventilated room and it never bothered me.


----------



## Bonddam

I'


mahesvara said:


> Most of the heat you feel are from the tubes. You know, there are 9 of them. I stand pretty close to my WA33 in a well ventilated room and it never bothered me.


I'm talking about the heat on both cases. No concern with tube heat. I know the heat will transfer from tubes to amp.


----------



## Bonddam

Hey guys one power tube has blue looking gas at the top is this normal?


----------



## Thenewguy007

Bonddam said:


> Hey guys one power tube has blue looking gas at the top is this normal?



Is the tube glass itself starting to look cloudy or hazy? That usually means leakage.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Bonddam said:


> Just joined WA33 club. I had too sell a lot of my toys but well worth it.



Congrats. Understand if you need more time, but any thoughts on how much of a step up, and or just plain different it is from the GSX Mini? I'm pretty settled on a SS amp, but I keep revisiting this amp regardless lol


----------



## Bonddam

number1sixerfan said:


> Congrats. Understand if you need more time, but any thoughts on how much of a step up, and or just plain different it is from the GSX Mini? I'm pretty settled on a SS amp, but I keep revisiting this amp regardless lol


I enjoy the WA33 more then the mini. I'm a man of few words. I like that it's powerful, great sound stage wide imaging is awesome bass on the 1266 tc is better. There's a lot to love. Anyways the mini was sold. I'm keeping the Formula S triple stack and WA33.


----------



## Bonddam

Thenewguy007 said:


> Is the tube glass itself starting to look cloudy or hazy? That usually means leakage.


The glass is clear. I'm not familiar with tube parts but it's a blue glow below the top plate.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Bonddam said:


> I enjoy the WA33 more then the mini. I'm a man of few words. I like that it's powerful, great sound stage wide imaging is awesome bass on the 1266 tc is better. There's a lot to love. Anyways the mini was sold. I'm keeping the Formula S triple stack and WA33.



Appreciate that, even that is helpful. Enjoy!!


----------



## F208Frank

Tak tube rectifier made in Japan I have for sale if someone is interested, just pm me.


----------



## Bonddam

Bonddam said:


> The glass is clear. I'm not familiar with tube parts but it's a blue glow below the top plate.


So I was able to research this blue glow and it isn't purple and its on the glass so it's okay.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Blue color glow is normal and will fade as the tube warms up and eventually go away as the tube age.


----------



## arin9790

I'm really looking forward to it.


----------



## Bonddam

How well does WA33 power Susvara?


----------



## F208Frank

Its considered good popular pairing. I like abyss more though.


----------



## Bonddam

F208Frank said:


> Its considered good popular pairing. I like abyss more though.


Thanks


----------



## Clive101 (May 8, 2020)

Hello All

I need some advice on tubes inparticular the 2A3 for the Woo WA 33

The KR Audio 2A3 HP are difficult to get in Europe and have been told these are the same as the KR Audio 2A3 version but the HP version has white ceramic base and numbered differently is there any sound difference ?

Also has any one compared the two Pasvane AMCE 2A3 and the Pasvane WR2A3 AND how do they differ to the KR Audio 2A3 models.

I will be using either the standard 6C45Pi standard tubes or the 6C45Pi Electro Harmonix Gold Pin.

I have the standard rectifier tube and the USAF 596 and open to upgrade suggestions?

Thanks


----------



## pippen99

EML 2A3 solid or mesh.  I have the 2A3 Mesh.  The main distributor is JAC Music out of Germany.  EML is manufactured in the Czech Republic.  I found them to be a solid upgrade to the stock tubes.  One does need to be patient as they were somewhat noisy to begin but settled in nicely.  EML also offers a prorated 5 year warranty.  They also are somewhat cheaper than KR.  I have not heard the KR so I cannot offer a comparison.

I have the Takatsuki 274B as my upgrade rectifier.  EML also makes a 274B that is well regarded.

I too have heard that the KR 2A3 HP offered in USA and Europe are different.  That was another reason I went with EML.


----------



## mahesvara

Clive101 said:


> Also has any one compared the two Pasvane AMCE 2A3 and the Pasvane WR2A3 AND how do they differ to the KR Audio 2A3 models.



I've compared the ACME 2A3 vs WR2A3. The ACME tubes are brighter. I prefer the WR2A3. Smoother, more musical


----------



## quintoben

I wonder has anyone experienced with HD800 + WA33? I usually turn the level to H and impedance to H and I feel I enjoy this setting more than level to L and impedance to L. While I chatted with WOO they L level and L impedance is enough to drive HD800?


----------



## arin9790 (May 8, 2020)

quintoben said:


> I wonder has anyone experienced with HD800 + WA33? I usually turn the level to H and impedance to H and I feel I enjoy this setting more than level to L and impedance to L. While I chatted with WOO they L level and L impedance is enough to drive HD800?


HD800S + WA22  = NOT GOOD
HD800S + HEADROOM MAX = BETTER THAN


----------



## quintoben

arin9790 said:


> HD800S + WA22 = NOT GOOD



U meant WA33? Or just talked about your experience with WA22?

Own HD800 for a long time. But was impressed by WA33 with Abyss 1266. Although still haven’t got the 1266 yet.


----------



## joseph69

quintoben said:


> I wonder has anyone experienced with HD800 + WA33? I usually turn the level to H and impedance to H and I feel I enjoy this setting more than level to L and impedance to L. While I chatted with WOO they L level and L impedance is enough to drive HD800?


I have the HD800/WA33 as well and use both, H impedance & H level.
Remember, there's no 'appropriate' setting for the 'level' with any headphone, just a matter of preference.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Question. Did Woo ever respond to the humming issues due to the chassis/stacking? Or have people figured out how to mitigate it with minimal effort?


----------



## pippen99

Mine hums to a degree.  Don't much care.


----------



## F208Frank

number1sixerfan said:


> Question. Did Woo ever respond to the humming issues due to the chassis/stacking? Or have people figured out how to mitigate it with minimal effort?


Curious as well but mine does not hum.


----------



## number1sixerfan

pippen99 said:


> Mine hums to a degree.  Don't much care.



Is the hum audible while using the headphones? That is my concern at this price point. 

I'm thinking I could always have the amps quite a bit farther from my listening space, but given how I have things set up now, I'd be right by it. If it's fairly faint, I wouldn't care either.


----------



## pippen99

I don't hear the hum through the headphones.  I thought about trying a power regenerator as I read about someone who had some Hegel amps that hummed but stopped when hooked to the regenerator.  I haven't done it yet as it is not that annoying and I don't want to go through the hassle of returning the unit if it doesn't work.


----------



## number1sixerfan

pippen99 said:


> I don't hear the hum through the headphones.  I thought about trying a power regenerator as I read about someone who had some Hegel amps that hummed but stopped when hooked to the regenerator.  I haven't done it yet as it is not that annoying and I don't want to go through the hassle of returning the unit if it doesn't work.



Thanks, that's helpful. From what I've read, it seems it's due to the actual chassis and stacking of the amp/power unit. But if it's not loud enough to impact listening I wouldn't care.


----------



## Bonddam

Trying to decide on my upgrade for tubes. This will be my first and don’t know which drivers, power tubes, and maybe rectifier to get. Can’t afford the KR tubes for power. Too many questions but don’t know what to ask.


----------



## pippen99

My upgrade choices.  Driver:  EH gold pin-pretty much your only choice.
                                   Rectifier:  Takatsuki 274B-generally considered to be the best modern rectifier.  The Western Electric 421A is considered to be the                                                       Holy Grail of rectifiers but are few and far between and horrendously expensive.  I have used the Sophia 274B Mesh in
                                                    a WA5 and found it very nice.  EML also makes a well regarded 274B.
                                   Power:  EML 2A3 Mesh.  I too found the KR too expensive and went with the EML.  Since I have not heard the KR I can offer no 
                                        comparisons.  The EML were initially noisy taking nearly 300 hours to stabilize.  I am very happy with how they sound now.

It is my personal opinion that if you were to save money anywhere the rectifier is the place.  I have found the rectifier to be the least contributor to changing the SQ of an amplifier.  Good Luck!


----------



## Roasty

pippen99 said:


> My upgrade choices.  Driver:  EH gold pin-pretty much your only choice.
> Rectifier:  Takatsuki 274B-generally considered to be the best modern rectifier.  The Western Electric 421A is considered to be the                                                       Holy Grail of rectifiers but are few and far between and horrendously expensive.  I have used the Sophia 274B Mesh in
> a WA5 and found it very nice.  EML also makes a well regarded 274B.
> Power:  EML 2A3 Mesh.  I too found the KR too expensive and went with the EML.  Since I have not heard the KR I can offer no
> ...



Wow u had the patience to run in the eml for 300 hrs! I'd have given up far sooner. 

WE422a is indeed very good. I got one off headfi a while back. I did find changing rectifiers had a decent impact especially in the soundstage and bass impact+tightness. Have always wanted to try the tak274b but they're crazy expensive. I found changing the driver tubes most significant for highs.


----------



## pippen99

In owning the WA5 for several years I found that rolling drivers had the most significant impact on SQ.  It is a little bit disappointing that the choices for driver upgrades are basically non existent.


----------



## Bonddam

I see the EH is $280 on woo site for quad. So I'm also looking at EML 2A3 mesh as my starting point. Thanks for the help so far keep it coming.


----------



## Bonddam

Well I bought EH drivers and tak rectifier. And looking to buy eml power tubes.


----------



## F208Frank

No love for the KR HP rectifier?


----------



## Bonddam

Bought eml 2A3 mesh


----------



## joseph69

number1sixerfan said:


> From what I've read, it seems it's due to the actual chassis and stacking of the amp/power unit.


A lot has to do with the rectifier tube.



Roasty said:


> I did find changing rectifiers had a decent impact especially in the soundstage and bass impact+tightness.


Me too.


----------



## zenworm

Anyone have reservations about using the WA33 in a desktop setup with a mechanical keyboard fairly close? I’m concerned about possible harmonics from vibrations on the desk.


----------



## Bonddam

zenworm said:


> Anyone have reservations about using the WA33 in a desktop setup with a mechanical keyboard fairly close? I’m concerned about possible harmonics from vibrations on the desk.


Your a speedy typer. The amp is well damped. Only vibration I’ve notice is turning the selector knobs too hard. I haven’t tapped the shelf it’s on I’ll tap on the shelf and report back.


----------



## Bonddam

Are tube rolls night and day sq change? I ordered my replacement tubes. I got EH gold pins. Tak rectifier and eml 2a3 mesh output tubes. I’m hoping for night and day change.


----------



## Bonddam

zenworm said:


> Anyone have reservations about using the WA33 in a desktop setup with a mechanical keyboard fairly close? I’m concerned about possible harmonics from vibrations on the desk.


I tapped around the WA33 and on the unit and heard no sound coming through the headphone.


----------



## pippen99

Probably the bigger problem you would have by having the WA33 on your desktop is the heat generated by the amp.


----------



## zenworm

Bonddam said:


> I tapped around the WA33 and on the unit and heard no sound coming through the headphone.


Thank you for that, much appreciated!


pippen99 said:


> Probably the bigger problem you would have by having the WA33 on your desktop is the heat generated by the amp.


Ok, yeah that might be a concern. Especially since it will be close to my Ncase M1 unless I rearrange some stuff. That alone might sway me towards solid state (considering the Formula S). Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## number1sixerfan

Will have the WA33 standard edition here soon. Was on the fence and then got one at a good deal. Just to start (and also not break the bank), I thinking I'll grab the Sophia Mesh Plate and a quad of WR2A3 directly from Woo. Brand new unit, would like to keep the warranty in mind for now. Would that provide some solid tube rolling differences than the stock or a slight improvement? I've read that the amp sounds less "tubey" than other other amps, so wouldn't mind some tubes that add warmth to the tonality. 

If the differences in these tubes vs stock however are pretty small, I rather hold off and just let the stock tubes/amp get some hours on it and then spend more $$ for bigger tube upgrades later.


----------



## Bonddam

number1sixerfan said:


> Will have the WA33 standard edition here soon. Was on the fence and then got one at a good deal. Just to start (and also not break the bank), I thinking I'll grab the Sophia Mesh Plate and a quad of WR2A3 directly from Woo. Brand new unit, would like to keep the warranty in mind for now. Would that provide some solid tube rolling differences than the stock or a slight improvement? I've read that the amp sounds less "tubey" than other other amps, so wouldn't mind some tubes that add warmth to the tonality.
> 
> If the differences in these tubes vs stock however are pretty small, I rather hold off and just let the stock tubes/amp get some hours on it and then spend more $$ for bigger tube upgrades later.


So you kill the amp warranty if you use tubes not sold by woo? I bought EH driver and tak rectifier I'm saving up for KR power tubes.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Bonddam said:


> So you kill the amp warranty if you use tubes not sold by woo? I bought EH driver and tak rectifier I'm saving up for KR power tubes.



I don't know exactly. I've just seen comments relating to it in the thread. Could be just the tubes they sale, or tubes by a certain brand, type etc. I'm not too sure so I just want to keep things simple for now.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Can someone Post a few pictures of this beauty running in the dark?
Wanna see that tube glow.


----------



## number1sixerfan

ThanatosVI said:


> Can someone Post a few pictures of this beauty running in the dark?
> Wanna see that tube glow.



About as dark as it can get right about now on the West Coast. 





Forgive the barebones temp furniture which will be here until I move after covid.. anyways, I've had the new amp for almost a week. Sounds pretty damn amazing. Rather not be a prisoner of the moment, so I'm gonna take quite a bit of time before offering up any impressions.


----------



## ThanatosVI

number1sixerfan said:


> About as dark as it can get right about now on the West Coast.
> 
> 
> Forgive the barebones temp furniture which will be here until I move after covid.. anyways, I've had the new amp for almost a week. Sounds pretty damn amazing. Rather not be a prisoner of the moment, so I'm gonna take quite a bit of time before offering up any impressions.


Thx mate, looking forward to your impressions


----------



## Roasty

number1sixerfan said:


> About as dark as it can get right about now on the West Coast.
> 
> 
> Forgive the barebones temp furniture which will be here until I move after covid.. anyways, I've had the new amp for almost a week. Sounds pretty damn amazing. Rather not be a prisoner of the moment, so I'm gonna take quite a bit of time before offering up any impressions.



That's awesome man! Does your gsx mini get play time anymore?


----------



## number1sixerfan

Roasty said:


> That's awesome man! Does your gsx mini get play time anymore?



Not right now, but that was intentional for the first week. I'll start comparing the two soon. What I can say is I'm impressed with the WA33 and the Mini at the same time. The WA33 is quite better, definitely.. but at the same time it's pretty amazing that the Mini does what it does for it's price point. Not sure I can find a reason to keep it though, but we'll see!


----------



## zenworm

number1sixerfan said:


> Not right now, but that was intentional for the first week. I'll start comparing the two soon. What I can say is I'm impressed with the WA33 and the Mini at the same time. The WA33 is quite better, definitely.. but at the same time it's pretty amazing that the Mini does what it does for it's price point. Not sure I can find a reason to keep it though, but we'll see!



Very interested in your comparison of the WA33 and GS-X Mini. Using a Schiit Mjolnir 2 right now and comparing the Benchmark HPA4 which, while it does have more clarity and detail retrieval, is quite a bit more harsh and digital sounding. GS-X MK2 arrives this weekend, we'll see how it fares.


----------



## number1sixerfan

zenworm said:


> Very interested in your comparison of the WA33 and GS-X Mini. Using a Schiit Mjolnir 2 right now and comparing the Benchmark HPA4 which, while it does have more clarity and detail retrieval, is quite a bit more harsh and digital sounding. GS-X MK2 arrives this weekend, we'll see how it fares.



Will definitely keep you posted!


----------



## ThanatosVI

I just finished reading all 43 pages of this thread, that hsppens rarely.


----------



## MrCypruz (May 31, 2020)

Deleted


----------



## joseph69

ThanatosVI said:


> I just finished reading all 43 pages of this thread, that hsppens rarely.


And what's your conclusion?


----------



## ThanatosVI (Jun 1, 2020)

joseph69 said:


> And what's your conclusion?



That this seems to be the right endgame amp for me.
Works great for planars, brilliant soundstage and microdetail yet extremely powerful and textured Bass.
It seems to offer Detail retrieval and clarity of high end solid states and adds that seductive tubiness to the sound.

Some seem to have issues with buzzing, most of the time related to their tubes.

I already asked woo Support if there is a possibility to order in the EU due to the huge tax and custom fees that come with a product of that price. Someone in this thread mentioned that woo actually has retailers.

For now I gotta save big time, but I have a very clear dream about my endgame

Also JPS had a special Version priced in between Standard and elite.
Personally I will settle for Standard die to budget reasons


----------



## zenworm

ThanatosVI said:


> Also JPS had a special Version priced in between Standard and elite.
> Personally I will settle for Standard die to budget reasons



I've been very curious about the JPS version. I can't see myself springing for the Elite, but maybe could end up going for the JPS since it also has upgraded tubes.


----------



## Bonddam

So I’m currently using Psvane Acme 2A3, Tak 274b and EH 6c45, the other output tube I’m using are EML mesh. The mesh tubes seem to be less loud I’ve been told the KR don’t give enough over the EML power tubes to spend extra K. Still down road I’d like to find out for myself if KR are worth spending more.


----------



## joseph69

[QUOTE="ThanatosVI, post: 15649840, member: 489840

Also JPS had a special Version priced in between Standard and elite.
Personally I will *settle* for Standard die to budget reasons
[/QUOTE]
Although I haven't heard any of the other models offered but the standard version (which I own) you definitely will not be "settling" in any way whatsoever by purchasing the 'standard version'.


----------



## MrCypruz

Bonddam said:


> So I’m currently using Psvane Acme 2A3, Tak 274b and EH 6c45, the other output tube I’m using are EML mesh. The mesh tubes seem to be less loud I’ve been told the KR don’t give enough over the EML power tubes to spend extra K. Still down road I’d like to find out for myself if KR are worth spending more.




Very nice! How do you compare the Psvane Acme 2A3 to the EML 2A3 Mesh Plate other than the gain? How’s the overall dynamics, bass, midrange, treble, soundstage? Is it more or less “tubey” than the EML?

I know that you’re a man of few words but I would like to hear your first hand impressions. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Bonddam (Jun 3, 2020)

The Psvane is giving me wide soundstage and transparency, bass is really good treble is where I like it. As far as tube sound with a strong midrange I'm not picking that up but there is tube magic for both. I enjoy both sets. 
Though with both sets of tubes I haven't hit the required burn in times. I'm going to give the Psvane a month and switch back to EML. It dosen't matter but I like the look of the bigger EML. The Psvane is cheaper.


----------



## number1sixerfan

I definitely intended to compare the WA33 with the GSX Mini but I haven't fired the Mini up once since I've had it lol. The Woo just has a really complete & high end refined sound to it, and it absolutely transforms the TCs and more power hungry cans (the AKG K1000 sings on them and I've only truly enjoyed them on speaker amps before). That's even with the Mini having as much power as it does. I've also only fired up the Blue Hawaii a few times (somewhat intentional as well) and it and the 009/HE60 are still here to stay; the airiness, openness and midrange/vocal are still unmatched although they lose out in other areas (bass quantity and impact, and the HE60 is matched in a few others as well). I really do want to write a detailed impression but I've just been enjoying listening which is rare lol

Psvane WR2A3's will be here Monday, don't plan on doing a ton of tube rolling outside of that and the sophia, as the differences are always so subtle given the price (to me). And then it's likely I offload quite a few headphones and close out with the TT2/Mscaler combo.


----------



## mahesvara

number1sixerfan said:


> Psvane WR2A3's will be here Monday, don't plan on doing a ton of tube rolling outside of that and the sophia, as the differences are always so subtle given the price (to me).



The WR2A3 are a better match for me because they produce warmer and smoother sound.

You'd be surprised what the Takatsuki 274B can do to your amp. I had the Sophia for my WA22 once. After I heard the Takatsuki, the Sophia departed in a hurry, as it sounded dull and boring compared to Takatsuki.


----------



## F208Frank

mahesvara said:


> The WR2A3 are a better match for me because they produce warmer and smoother sound.
> 
> You'd be surprised what the Takatsuki 274B can do to your amp. I had the Sophia for my WA22 once. After I heard the Takatsuki, the Sophia departed in a hurry, as it sounded dull and boring compared to Takatsuki.


Did you ever try the KR Rectifier?


----------



## number1sixerfan (Jun 4, 2020)

mahesvara said:


> The WR2A3 are a better match for me because they produce warmer and smoother sound.
> 
> You'd be surprised what the Takatsuki 274B can do to your amp. I had the Sophia for my WA22 once. After I heard the Takatsuki, the Sophia departed in a hurry, as it sounded dull and boring compared to Takatsuki.



Yea I think I read your and maybe someone else's comments regarding this. One of the reasons I opted for them, wanted tubes a bit warmer than stock. And eventually I'll likely try the Takatsuki, especially if I can pick up used. But I'm really happy with the sound as is. With tubes it really is hard at least for me to justify the ROI, very few tubes rolled in the past have had very large differences. But again, I'll be open in the future.


----------



## mahesvara

F208Frank said:


> Did you ever try the KR Rectifier?



No, went straight to Takatsuki after Sophia


----------



## ThanatosVI

Does anyone know retailers where you can order the WA33 from Inside the european Union?

Tax and customs would be crazy on this amp.


----------



## Steve160k

If the WA33 was available from EU I would also consider this amp. I have potentially up to £10,000 to invest in the right headphone/amp combination. Lot's of choice out there, and coud easily pick up the Hugo TT2 / Luxman or others for digital solution, Audio Technica HA5050H hybrid SS & tube etc, but this W\A33 seems to be for most the choice to go for TOTL. I have never listened to tube on 2 channel, or headphone amps. It would be good to listen.


----------



## Bonddam

So after listening with the 1266 tc and HEDD I'm enjoying the HEDD more with the psvane power tubes. I was wondering if the 1266 TC would be better with EML 2A3 solid plate. The 1266 is sounding boring on many tracks.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Woo Support seems rather slow.
Wrote them over a week ago and asked if they have partnered retailers in the EU.
No answer yet


----------



## Steve160k

That makes two of us.


----------



## Bonddam

Are there any WA33 using this tube  Emission Labs 300B 2. 5V version instead of the 2A3 S? George from TubesUSA said it is compatible with WA33. I'd like to know before buying.


----------



## Bonddam

Hopefully this will be known that George spoke with Jack Woo and the   Emission Labs 300B 2. 5V version is good with WA33. So I'll be the guinea pig on this one.


----------



## joseph69

ThanatosVI said:


> Woo Support seems rather slow.
> Wrote them over a week ago and asked if they have partnered retailers in the EU.
> No answer yet





Steve160k said:


> That makes two of us.


Very unusual. Mike (@HiFiGuy528 ) always replies very promptly.




Bonddam said:


> Hopefully this will be known that George spoke with Jack Woo and the   Emission Labs 300B 2. 5V version is good with WA33. So I'll be the guinea pig on this one.


Very interesting. 
I'd like to hear your impressions after sufficient burn in.


----------



## Bonddam

Very interesting.
I'd like to hear your impressions after sufficient burn in.
[/QUOTE]
I'll post the comparison to EML 2A3 mesh.


----------



## mahesvara

Woo seems to have dealers in Romania and Poland, according to their Support page


----------



## ThanatosVI

mahesvara said:


> Woo seems to have dealers in Romania and Poland, according to their Support page


Unfortunately they don't offer english Websites.


----------



## joseph69

ThanatosVI said:


> Unfortunately they don't offer english Websites.


Google translate


----------



## IPodPJ

andyschaub said:


> Thanks. I actually spoke with Jack Wu after I posted this and he said that the new WA33 has a phase splitter so that you can convert the single-ended input into a balanced signal, although my own experience has been that transformers work better than phase splitters for this purpose. The very intriguing all vacuum tube phase splitter built into the Woo WES might be an exception to that.



In my custom Beta22 I have Cinemag balancing transformers for the single ended inputs and in my opinion an active conversion would likely sound more accurate.  I use my system fully balanced so it’s not an issue for me.  If I needed to use the unbalanced inputs for something there’s nothing wrong with the sound; Cinemag makes the best ones, but it’s not quite as linear as active conversion would be.


----------



## Bonddam

Just installed EML 300B 2.5volt version very dynamic. First thing don’t have to turn the volume up as high. Just don’t get confused I’m not running a normal 300B. This tube is a replacement for 2A3 amp. Very powerful tube. So if I switch back to the EML 2A3 m or Psvane 2A3 would be to I don’t know but the latter is more wide and transparent. Both are mesh so Id say they are softer on power.


----------



## pippen99

Where did you get these?  It took me nearly 6 weeks to get my 2A3 Mesh from Jac.  Why did you decide on solid plates instead of mesh with the 300B?.  Looking forward to more impressions


----------



## Bonddam (Jun 9, 2020)

I buy from George at tubsusa.com who actually sells to jack woo. George recommenced them over the regular EML2A3 because I listen to a lot of EDM. They are super dynamic. I have the mesh EML 2A3 and they don’t do it for me unless I switch to different genre of music.
I ordered on Saturday and I got them Tuesday.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

ThanatosVI said:


> Woo Support seems rather slow.
> Wrote them over a week ago and asked if they have partnered retailers in the EU.
> No answer yet





Steve160k said:


> That makes two of us.



We typically reply within 24 hrs. on weekdays. *Perhaps our reply went to your Spam folder? *

Please resend your email to me at mike@wooaudio.com if we didn't reply to you. We check our Spam folder everyday.


----------



## ThanatosVI (Jun 11, 2020)

HiFiGuy528 said:


> We typically reply within 24 hrs. on weekdays. *Perhaps our reply went to your Spam folder? *
> 
> Please resend your email to me at mike@wooaudio.com if we didn't reply to you. We check our Spam folder everyday.


I just resend the email, thx for replying here regarding this topic

edit: my matter could be resloved thanks to @HiFiGuy528


----------



## Bonddam (Jun 13, 2020)

I don't know how to describe the EML 300B 2.5 volt solid plates(website doesn't show solid plate). They to me are better then the EML or PSVANE 2A3 mesh(got bored with them too soft). That is only how I feel towards them. They are great sound stage and depth. Vocals are very good. I was never good at sensing warm or neutral. In that case I'd go neutral, very even. Joyous might be a word I use. I enjoy the detail very much. No veil to speak of. So far that's what I have to say about this tube The headphone I've been using is HEDDphone. 

I forgot to mention driver tubes Sovtek and Takasuki 274B rectifier.


----------



## koven

Any WA33 owners have a chance to try the Viva Egoista 2a3 before?


----------



## kyotousa

geraldshanghai said:


> Gosh, I just bought WA5LE, then there comes WA33.... the road to perfect headphone sound is cash-sucking.


Do you not like the WA5LE?


----------



## ThanatosVI

Out of curiosity, which other amps play in the league of the Wa 33?


----------



## pippen99

ThanatosVI said:


> Out of curiosity, which other amps play in the league of the Wa 33?



DNA Stellaris, Primaluna HP


----------



## SalR406

ThanatosVI said:


> Out of curiosity, which other amps play in the league of the Wa 33?




Viva Egoista 2A3
Viva Egoista 845


----------



## ThanatosVI

pippen99 said:


> DNA Stellaris, Primaluna HP





SalR406 said:


> Viva Egoista 2A3
> Viva Egoista 845


Thanks guys.

Apart from the Primaluna those are really ugly, not gonna lie.
Unfortunately you really find next to nothing about the primaluna as headphone amp


----------



## SalR406

ThanatosVI said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> Apart from the Primaluna those are really ugly, not gonna lie.
> Unfortunately you really find next to nothing about the primaluna as headphone amp



Heh.  Most tube gear enthusiasts consider them to be works of art.  Though I can certainly see how they might strike someone's aesthetic sensibilities as over-the-top.  The chassis colors alone veer far from the black-or-silver standard for electronics.  

There's this new headamp in that same price range, which I think is absolutely beautiful in a very different way.  Solid-state, though.

T+A HA 200


----------



## musicman59 (Jun 23, 2020)

ThanatosVI said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> Apart from the Primaluna those are really ugly, not gonna lie.
> Unfortunately you really find next to nothing about the primaluna as headphone amp


I own the PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium HP.
It replaced my Woo WA5-LE v1. It is a great amp with a lot of power and control. I upgraded all the tubes. I am using NOS Siemens EL-34, NOS Mullard 12AU7.
It is very musical and convenient with the remote control. The headphones output is not like many other integrated amplifiers that use Opamps for the headphones output. The PrimaLuna uses the same tube output for the speakers tabs just with resistors to provide a more friendly output power for the headphones. I use it exclusively for headphones but with fairly efficient speakers it can be a real dual tread treat.

I have been thinking on going back to the Woo family but the one I would want is the WA33 and have not been able to justify the price difference so far specially when I look at the Elite Edition.


----------



## ThanatosVI

musicman59 said:


> I own the PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium HP.
> It replaced my Woo WA5-LE v1. It is a great amp with a lot of power and control. I upgraded all the tubes. I am using NOS Siemens EL-34, NOS Mullard 12AU7.
> It is very musical and convenient with the remote control. The headphones output is not like many other integrated amplifiers that use Opamps for the headphones output. The PrimaLuna uses the same tube output for the speakers tabs just with resistors to provide a more friendly output power for the headphones. I use it exclusively for headphones but with fairly efficient speakers it can be a real dual tread treat.
> 
> I have been thinking on going back to the Woo family but the one I would want is the WA33 and have not been able to justify the price difference so far specially when I look at the Elite Edition.


Thanks for the insights. I'm really interested how they compare to each other.
Hopefully someone could audition them both to share a few more insights.


----------



## musicman59

I would be honest the best dynamic system I have hear that fit my taste was at Axpona couple of years ago. It was a WA33 Elite Edition fed by a big Meitner DAC and the Utopia with the Axios AG cable. The level of detail was at the level of my electrostatic rig but with great tight and fast bass.
I remember listening to the bass at the beginning of Sting’s A Thousand Years. OMG! I could feel the bass!

Now, the prima is not a sludge for a third of the price. I would say it give you 85%-90% of the WA33 for under $4,500 compare to $15,000 or 8,000 for the standard version.


----------



## kyotousa

geraldshanghai said:


> Gosh, I just bought WA5LE, then there comes WA33.... the road to perfect headphone sound is cash-sucking.


Why did you buy an imperfect unit tho?


----------



## ThanatosVI

Does the WA 33 need matched tubes, or would you simply exchange a single tube if one is defective?


----------



## Bonddam

Hey did you all have ups and downs with fresh tubes? I noticed some days it sound crystal clear and other days a bit dull. I’m under the 50 hours of listening. My experience I’m guessing is part of the fresh tubes, the internals should be fully burned in.


----------



## Bonddam

ThanatosVI said:


> Does the WA 33 need matched tubes, or would you simply exchange a single tube if one is defective?


I would think matched even if you had a tube that matched it would not be burned in at same amount of hours. What tubes do you need to replace? I have a bunch I’m not using sell at good price. Have stock tubes and EML and PSVane output tubes that I’m selling.


----------



## pippen99

EML  says burn in takes anywhere from 100-300 hours.  I think my 2A3 mesh did not reach full potential until recently when I passed 350 hrs.  I can only guess that would apply to the 300B 2.5V but that would seem a reasonable guess.


----------



## joseph69

Bonddam said:


> Hey did you all have ups and downs with fresh tubes? I noticed some days it sound crystal clear and other days a bit dull. I’m under the 50 hours of listening. My experience I’m guessing is part of the fresh tubes, the internals should be fully burned in.


Yes, I did, and still do with insufficiently burned in tubes.
Also, at this point with my tubes, I don't fault them being they're very well burned in. I fault my mood, as well as too much listening. 



pippen99 said:


> EML  says burn in takes anywhere from 100-300 hours.  I think my 2A3 mesh did not reach full potential until recently when I passed 350 hrs.  I can only guess that would apply to the 300B 2.5V but that would seem a reasonable guess.


I don't exactly how many hours I have on my 2A3 solid plates, but I've been using them since the purchase of my WA33 which I own over 1-1/2yrs now, and I absolutely recall when my tubes reached their potential which was +/- 4mos ago. I also believe the burn in of the WA33 itself was a big contribution as well.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Bonddam said:


> I would think matched even if you had a tube that matched it would not be burned in at same amount of hours. What tubes do you need to replace? I have a bunch I’m not using sell at good price. Have stock tubes and EML and PSVane output tubes that I’m selling.


Hi there,

I personally don't have a Wa 33, atm I am still informing myself about it and other amps with comparable performance.
During these thoughts I also came to the scenario "what if ONE tube dies?" - to calculate running costs over time compared to other amps.

Especially if one has expensive upgrade tubes it makes a huge difference if you need to replace only one or all of the same type.


----------



## Roasty

Anyone here tried both the dna stellaris and wa33? 

So far, I've spoken to two guys who have tried both these amps and they say the stellaris wins hands down.

I had a chance to try the wa33 with the susvara for a short while the other day, source was a Dave. Pretty impressive..


----------



## gfwyzxj

I have tried abyss 1266 tc and susvara with stellaris in different occasions. Source is the same - Dave + HMS but with different brands of cables. They were both connected with XLR to Dave.

For susvara WA33 wins by a wide margin - more slams, more pronounced base with wider sound stage. This is a standard WA33 with upgraded tubes though (takatsuki 274 + kr 2a3 hp). For abyss, WA33 still wins to my ear but the gap is narrower. I believe this is due to the fact that stellaris can only output 1.8w vs (up to) 10w of WA33, and susvara really need the power to shine. At this caliber only a few other amps such as Italian Viva 845 can deliver something similar, but I haven't got a chance to try that one.

At the end I went with WA33 Elite which should arrive in a week


----------



## number1sixerfan

Roasty said:


> Anyone here tried both the dna stellaris and wa33?
> 
> So far, I've spoken to two guys who have tried both these amps and they say the stellaris wins hands down.
> 
> I had a chance to try the wa33 with the susvara for a short while the other day, source was a Dave. Pretty impressive..





gfwyzxj said:


> I have tried abyss 1266 tc and susvara with stellaris in different occasions. Source is the same - Dave + HMS but with different brands of cables. They were both connected with XLR to Dave.
> 
> For susvara WA33 wins by a wide margin - more slams, more pronounced base with wider sound stage. This is a standard WA33 with upgraded tubes though (takatsuki 274 + kr 2a3 hp). For abyss, WA33 still wins to my ear but the gap is narrower. I believe this is due to the fact that stellaris can only output 1.8w vs (up to) 10w of WA33, and susvara really need the power to shine. At this caliber only a few other amps such as Italian Viva 845 can deliver something similar, but I haven't got a chance to try that one.
> 
> At the end I went with WA33 Elite which should arrive in a week



I've not tried both, but I can attest to the fact that both the Susvara and TC seem to benefit greatly from the WA33's extra power. The amp I had previously had around 4w and they sounded great with it, but they definitely sound better with the extra power. The change was more noticeable than with my other headphones. 

Would still actually like to hear the Stellaris amp one day though. Definitely looks interesting.


----------



## Roasty

@gfwyzxj and @number1sixerfan, thanks for your inputs!

Apologies, I forgot to add include that the two guys I spoke to said the Stellaris wins hands down but for pairing with the Utopia.

Your inputs are still extremely helpful though, as the Abyss is still going to feature heavily in my lineup, so whichever amp is in my consideration will have to be able to drive the Abyss well.

The other consideration is aesthetics.. The WA33 really looks the business. I'm not entirely sure about the blue chassis of the stellaris. Had emailed DNA a few days ago and unfortunately the blue is not up for change to black/gunmetal..


----------



## ThanatosVI

Roasty said:


> @gfwyzxj and @number1sixerfan, thanks for your inputs!
> 
> Apologies, I forgot to add include that the two guys I spoke to said the Stellaris wins hands down but for pairing with the Utopia.
> 
> ...


The WA 33 looks the most like the Statement product that it is.
A real beast!


----------



## gfwyzxj

Just adding my comments here for people who's exploring Woo's TOTL amps. Here is my subjective comparison between WA234 MK2 (stock tube, 300B) vs WA33 standard (upgraded tube). Same source - Dave + HMS and same IC/PCs. Headphones are Susvara w/ stock cable and abyss 1266 tc with jps superconductor.

What I liked about WA234: 
More tube selections (you can choose between 2A3, 300B, and others)
Even more powerful which is a bit (10% probably) more beneficial for susvara - more slams/bass towards lower end. For Abyss I feel the power ceiling is already reached so the difference if subtle here if any.
A bit better separation of instruments - likely due the mono block design? WA33 is no slouch here due to the full balanced design vs single-ended of WA234.

What I didn't like about WA234:
Transparency took a hit, music rendition is a bit less refined - likely due to the stock 300B maybe?
Two volume knobs - this is what really bothers me (yes I'm lazy) and I found it's a bit difficult for me to tune a perfect balanced left/right channel volume with this setup. It's doable for sure, just took me more time.
Higher overall cost as you need 2 matched power cables vs 1 for WA33

In the end I went with WA33 Elite as I prefer a unified volume control and subjectively better looking. Tube selection does not bother me that much as the KR HPs are great tubes. Granted there is no much of 6C45s out there but the EH ones do their job just fine. For 274B you can't go wrong with either the Japanese one of KR HPs, both offer stellar results.


----------



## ahossam

It would be nice if there's a comparison between WA33 standard vs WA33 Elite, it seems people who own WA33 standard will upgrade to WA33 Elite in the end.


----------



## joseph69 (Jun 28, 2020)

gfwyzxj said:


> More tube selections (you can choose between 2A3, 300B, and others)


You can now choose between a 2A3 & this 300B for the WA33.
EDIT: This 300B


----------



## pippen99

joseph69 said:


> You can now choose between a 2A3 & this 300B for the WA33.



Your link is to the regular 300B 5V. 
The WA33 would require the 300B 2.5V.
http://emissionlabs.com/datasheets/EML300B-25V.html


----------



## joseph69

pippen99 said:


> Your link is to the regular 300B 5V.
> The WA33 would require the 300B 2.5V.
> http://emissionlabs.com/datasheets/EML300B-25V.html


Thanks for the fix.
I copied the wrong link, apologies.


----------



## sejsel (Jun 28, 2020)

andyschaub said:


> I have several pairs of headphones but my favorites use kind of an obscure two-driver design with a Heil Air Motion Transformer for the midrange and treble (plus Drew Baird's Black Dragin cables). I'm sorry, but I don't remember what they're called; however I think Moon Audio has some in stock.



Spirit (Torino), based on Grado design?
Edit: (correction) - never mind, I found them;
https://headphone.guru/obravo-hamt-1-heil-air-motion-transformer-headphones/


----------



## F208Frank

Any WA33 owner happen to try the AIC-10?


----------



## Bard Rich

watchdog507 said:


> United 596 Rectifiers.  My favourite rectifiers.  I have several pairs and I swear by them.  They are built like tanks and will last a lifetime.
> haii..it's dac not hot?because the tube amp is below..


----------



## MrCypruz

Found a great solution on Amazon to keep the WA33 relatively cool: This amazing smart fan. I set it in smart mode underneath my WA33 and it triggers the fans when the temperature reaches 88 degF. The fans extract the heat from the transformer to the back. It’s small, low key, quiet, smart and relatively cheap. It was a great buy for me and thought that some WA33 owners might find it interesting as well. For the price, given that it may increase the longevity of the transformer and other internal components, this is a steal and a must have imho.


----------



## pippen99

Do not want to burst any bubbles but this is all wrong.  Per the answered questions from the manufacturer's service the unit pulls hot air from underneath and exhausts out the back.  It is designed for top use.  In the picture the poster has turned it upside down pulling air down into the unit.  In the questions the manufacturer explicitly states that it is not designed to be used in this manner.  It is also stated that the unit is not designed to have anything stacked on top of it.  At 56lbs the WA33 would be seriously compromising the structural integrity of the fan.  I would not set a multi-thousand dollar amp on top of something not specifically rated to hold that weight.  It is a great idea knowing how hot the WA33 gets but this is not the right piece of equipment for the job.


----------



## MrCypruz (Jul 6, 2020)

pippen99 said:


> Do not want to burst any bubbles but this is all wrong.  Per the answered questions from the manufacturer's service the unit pulls hot air from underneath and exhausts out the back.  It is designed for top use.  In the picture the poster has turned it upside down pulling air down into the unit.  In the questions the manufacturer explicitly states that it is not designed to be used in this manner.  It is also stated that the unit is not designed to have anything stacked on top of it.  At 56lbs the WA33 would be seriously compromising the structural integrity of the fan.  I would not set a multi-thousand dollar amp on top of something not specifically rated to hold that weight.  It is a great idea knowing how hot the WA33 gets but this is not the right piece of equipment for the job.



You're not bursting any bubbles and I certainly don't know why you claim that "this is all wrong". All I'm doing is using the unit upside down sucking the air from the WA33 and exhausting out the back (the same function but upside down). The unit is not stacked but it is underneath between the WA33 feet, so there's no load on top of the unit, 0 lbs/kg. Additionally, the unit is not touching the WA33 so there's no induced vibration from the fans either. The only thing I did was to put the unit upside down and it's working flawlessly keeping the WA33 cool. If the unit fails after sometime because of the fact that it's operating upside down, I can easily replace it for $49 while still ensuring longevity of the WA33. I confirm that the unit is getting the job done, I just wish I had some temperature measuring device with me to show you the results.

The manufacturer might come up with a model with the fans positioned on the top pulling out hot air and exhausting through the back but until then, I'm perfectly fine with this one, specially for the price, seamless operation and the benefit of keeping the WA33 operating at lower temperatures vs without the fan.

My suggestion would be for you to give it try if you can prior to making some bold claims, Amazon has a 30 days return policy. If you do, please report back your experience.

FYI if you want the model that is "stackable", it is recommended to get the bigger models S8,S9 and S10, this is the smaller S6 model (not stackable). There's also a T model that exhausts from the front of the unit.


----------



## pippen99

1)  Per the manufacturer the fan is not being used in the manner of design.  I know you don't care.  2) The picture posted shows the amp sitting on the fan.  I now that is not the amps legs because I measured my amp.  However I have no way to determine from that picture that the amp is not resting on the fan.  I prefer my equipment perform the task in  the manner and way  for which it was designed.


----------



## MrCypruz (Jul 6, 2020)

pippen99 said:


> I know you don't care



You got that right, specially given the benefits of having the unit and its price.




pippen99 said:


> 2) The picture posted shows the amp sitting on the fan.



The WA33 is NOT sitting on the top of the unit. The legs you see belong to the cooling fans. Here’s another picture showing the space between the amp and the unit. I can move the unit freely underneath the WA33.





pippen99 said:


> I prefer my equipment perform the task in the manner and way for which it was designed.


That’s completely understandable. Although I urge you to try, it might end up being a keeper.


----------



## Bonddam

MrCypruz said:


> You got that right, specially given the benefits of having the unit and its price.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There always be nay sayers!


----------



## pippen99

Thanks for the better picture.


----------



## MrCypruz

Bonddam said:


> There always be nay sayers!


You’re right buddy, specially in this hobby’s forums. That’s actually what makes it fun and interesting.


----------



## Clive101 (Jul 6, 2020)

Does anyone know the the correct operating temperature range bearing in mind I have been told WA33 gives better performance when warmed up ?
Perhaps @HiFiGuy528 may be able to give us some temperture ranges and what part of the casing to measure ?
What temperture does your WA33 run at ?


----------



## MrCypruz (Jul 6, 2020)

Clive101 said:


> I have been told WA33 gives better performance when warmed up ?


I always thought that tubes warm-up (for most if not all tube amps) was the most important factor for optimal performance, not the chassis or the transformer but I may be wrong. The fan I’m using doesn’t seem to affect the ability to get the tubes properly warmed up as it’s not affecting the voltage/current feeding the filaments through the pins.

PS: I’m not competent enough to discuss the principles behind tube amplifiers’ operation.


----------



## Bonddam (Jul 7, 2020)

The amp gets really hot so once you can’t touch ur good to go.☺🤪


----------



## joseph69 (Jul 8, 2020)

The all aluminum chassis is what is dissipating the heat from the internals which is why the chassis gets hot. @MrCypruz when did you purchase your WA33? I'm asking because I noticed from your photos that your dual 3-pin XLR outputs are white and mine are black.


----------



## MrCypruz (Jul 8, 2020)

joseph69 said:


> The all aluminum chassis is what is dissipating the heat from the internals which is why the chassis gets hot. @MrCypruz when did you purchase your WA33? I'm asking because I noticed from your photos that your dual 3-pin XLR outputs are white and mine are black.


This makes sense, that’s why the chassis gets extremely hot, even to the touch. Thankfully, the cooling fans I showed earlier solved that for me.

As for the dual XLR outputs (all XLR outputs/inputs on the unit), they’re black in my unit as well, I’ve never seen a unit with white ones - all I can say is blame it on the poor lightning conditions under which the picture was taken, on my phone’s poor camera quality and ultimately on my poor photography skills.


----------



## joseph69

MrCypruz said:


> As for the dual XLR outputs (all XLR outputs/inputs on the unit), they’re black in my unit as well, I’ve never seen a unit with white ones - all I can say is blame it on the poor lightning conditions under which the picture was taken, on my phone’s poor camera quality and ultimately on my poor photography skills.


Wow, that's pretty tricky how the photos can make your XLR's appear to be white in color.


----------



## Clive101

Hello All
Sadly for the moment I have left the club and sold my WA33.......
Guess what I ordered.......?


----------



## Bonddam

Big pile of poop!


----------



## ThanatosVI

Clive101 said:


> Hello All
> Sadly for the moment I have left the club and sold my WA33.......
> Guess what I ordered.......?


May I ask how much you sold it for. (Pm if you dont want to post publicly)
And what is the replacement


----------



## Bonddam

I figured it out you said at the moment so you purchased the elite edition.


----------



## Clive101

ThanatosVI said:


> May I ask how much you sold it for. (Pm if you dont want to post publicly)
> And what is the replacement


The WA33 SE commands good price second-hand  check out HiFi Shark for the prices. In Europe very scarce so the prices hold very well. 


Bonddam said:


> I figured it out you said at the moment so you purchased the elite edition.


Getting close....


----------



## Bonddam

You bought the mono blocks? If so I couldn’t handle two volume knobs and always trying to match left and right.


----------



## Clive101

You were very close before .....
I ordered the JPS version of the Elite 
Can hardly wait untill delivery around August


----------



## Bonddam

Damn off buy one word. Well I sold my Abyss 1266 TC and guess what I’m getting.


----------



## Bonddam (Jul 22, 2020)

When I see how much I can bring home I might upgrade to JPS Elite WA33 directly from Woo. If my new house is too expensive then only in my dreams.


----------



## Clive101

I give up on your new headphones...Diana perhaps ?  I have tried the Abyss TC was not that impressed but am going to try a demo at home and try the different adjustments as suggested by others along with the Diana.
I must admit I did push the boat out when  I ordered the JPS version when the SE sounds so good with upgraded tubes.


----------



## Bonddam

No I’m getting another 1266 TC I miss it too much. I wasn’t impressed with it until 5 or 6 months later. I had issues with equal bass. One side would get louder when I moved my head.


----------



## Bonddam

Clive101 said:


> I give up on your new headphones...Diana perhaps ?  I have tried the Abyss TC was not that impressed but am going to try a demo at home and try the different adjustments as suggested by others along with the Diana.
> I must admit I did push the boat out when  I ordered the JPS version when the SE sounds so good with upgraded tubes.


Diana is good for anything but not hip hop and edm. Unlike the 1266tc that has big bass but lacks thatmid bass snap with edm which is all I listen to.


----------



## Cyntax

I've read all 49 pages of this thread. I think that is a first for me  Thanks to everyone for contributing!

I've settled into deciding to buy a wa33. I'm currently running mscalar->hugo tt2->Abyss Phi TC. 

I'm curious if anyone has any actual hands-on experience with the JPS Labs edition of the WA33 Standard? It seems most of the experiences posted here are about the Elite+Jps edition. 

I'm fairly settled on the ~$13-14k budget for a new amp. So I'm trying to decide between the Wa33 Elite or the WA33 JPS Standard.


----------



## mat.1

Cyntax said:


> I've read all 49 pages of this thread. I think that is a first for me  Thanks to everyone for contributing!
> 
> I've settled into deciding to buy a wa33. I'm currently running mscalar->hugo tt2->Abyss Phi TC.
> 
> ...


same with me.

I need to know how different between Jps Standard vs WA33 standard  , as i can not sell so easily in here if i don't like it.
it must be my endgame if i buy it .


----------



## Bonddam

Get the JPS Elite edition you would have to email woo for that version.


----------



## mat.1

Bonddam said:


> Get the JPS Elite edition you would have to email woo for that version.


It is out Of The budget . I can’t Afford it.


----------



## Roasty

USD17.5k ouch!


----------



## Bonddam

Roasty said:


> USD17.5k ouch!


I barely visit their site unless I'm looking at tubes. You could by Honda Civic for that money!


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (Jul 28, 2020)

IMHO, the 33 Standard Edition is a lot of performance for the money. It pairs phenomenally well with many high-end headphones. It is the version I would buy. 

I’m also a car guy so i’ll use a car analogy. The Standard is the Lamborghini Huracán, class-leading performance and still within reach of car enthusiasts. This is the model I would buy. 

Elite Edition is the Lamborghini Aventador, the ultimate performance when only the best will do.


----------



## Bonddam

mat.1 said:


> It is out Of The budget . I can’t Afford it.


you are going to need to upgrade tubes unless elite comes with kr tubes. The JPS you get better internal wire(is there proof) on the inside and KR tubes. If you where buying standard you'd be spending the same amount minus the JPS wire. If you get the Elite then you'll need 4k for the best tubes or do EML 300B 2.5 volt mesh or solid(these are amazing) power tubes. I spent close to 3k EML,EH,andTakasuki.


----------



## joseph69

HiFiGuy528 said:


> IMHO, the 33 Standard Edition is a lot of performance for the money. It pairs phenomenally well with many high-end headphones. It is the version I would buy.


+1


----------



## Cyntax

I think I'm going to take the plunge with the WA33 Standard JPS Labs edition. Seems like there aren't many direct impressions/reviews. So I'm going to be the first. Ordering tonight and will report back when it arrives!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

to clarify the different versions.

The version(s) we offer on our website does NOT include the KR Audio tubes. The version ABYSS offers on their website does.

On our website, all version(s) are shipped with the same default "stock" tubes. Upgrade tubes can be purchased separately. We have many options available.

The customer can choose between Standard or Elite Edition with "JPS Wiring" or without.


----------



## phase0

How much can I save by ordering the Lowe's/Home Depot wires edition?


----------



## ThanatosVI

phase0 said:


> How much can I save by ordering the Lowe's/Home Depot wires edition?


Never heard of this Edition. 
What is different?


----------



## phase0

ThanatosVI said:


> Never heard of this Edition.
> What is different?


Well at Lowe's you can get 50 feet of wire for ~ $15, from JPS Labs Illuminata 10 ft * 2.5 since it's listed as a pair = $22,475. I know that's a ridiculous comparison. Hopefully you have a sense of humor.


----------



## SalR406

ThanatosVI said:


> Never heard of this Edition.
> What is different?


In the USA, _Lowe's_ and _The Home Depot_ are large retail stores that sell home repair supplies, plumbing, electrical, etc.. He's making a joke about the possibility of a very cheap wire edition of the WA33 rather than the very expensive wire JPS edition.


----------



## Bonddam (Aug 5, 2020)

You probably would pay a premium charge to Jack to find one close to Long Island city. He might have to take the Holland Tunnel into Jersey. The Toll is like $20 bucks alone.


----------



## mat.1

When in this year Woo audio have discount /sale on WA 33 ?


----------



## pippen99

Black Friday in November.  I ordered mine last year.  I believe the discount was 10 per cent(maybe).


----------



## mat.1

pippen99 said:


> Black Friday in November.  I ordered mine last year.  I believe the discount was 10 per cent(maybe).


Thanks.


----------



## ThanatosVI

SalR406 said:


> In the USA, _Lowe's_ and _The Home Depot_ are large retail stores that sell home repair supplies, plumbing, electrical, etc.. He's making a joke about the possibility of a very cheap wire edition of the WA33 rather than the very expensive wire JPS edition.


Thx for the explanation


----------



## gooeyrich

Still trying to wrap my head around the price of this thing.


----------



## joseph69

gooeyrich said:


> Still trying to wrap my head around the price of this thing.


Which version?


----------



## gooeyrich

joseph69 said:


> Which version?



All of them.

How much do you reckon the Orpheus amp is on it's own?


----------



## joseph69

+/-$55K
Now doesn't the WA33 (standard) seem very appealing for it's price?


----------



## gooeyrich

joseph69 said:


> +/-$55K
> Now doesn't the WA33 (standard) seem very appealing for it's price?



Depends, how much of a performance increase is one getting over a 2K amp?


----------



## Clive101

gooeyrich said:


> Depends, how much of a performance increase is one getting over a 2K amp?


Had a brief audition with the Orpheus and own a GSX Mk2 (up for sale by the way) either are not in the same league of the WA33.
Performance increase is hard to quantify vs cost as we all have different budgets but I would say for the money a WA33 with upgraded tubes (for your personal preference) will be hard to match for the cost and performance, give one a try who knows you may end up making a purchase.
Having sold my WA33 SE I am looking forward to a delivery of the WA33 Elite JPS version now due in approx. 3 weeks time  but I guess the laws of diminishing returns may apply.
I will post up my views in a few weeks time if anyone is interested ?

Anyone know the normal operating temperature (outside casing) of the WA33 ?

I also wondered, the WA33 performs better when warmed up if I were to cool with a fan underneath or fan blowing onto the WA33 would if affect the SQ as running cooler ?


----------



## ThanatosVI

Clive101 said:


> I will post up my views in a few weeks time if anyone is interested ?


Obviously we are interested!
Post them when you had some time with it


----------



## joseph69

gooeyrich said:


> Depends, how much of a performance increase is one getting over a 2K amp?


The cost is irrelevant. It depends on the listeners preference. 
I have the WA33 SE, Citadel Custom and GSX-mk2 and enjoy them all very much regardless of their costs.


----------



## Abyss Headphones

We talk about our WA33...


----------



## ahossam

Can you buy Abyss KR tubes separately?


----------



## ufospls2

ahossam said:


> Can you buy Abyss KR tubes separately?



yup. https://store.theevolutionofsound.com/collections/misc/tube


----------



## Roasty

Anyone here using the wa33 with the Utopia? Any comments on this pairing? Any background noise/hum audible with these sensitive headphones?


----------



## number1sixerfan

gooeyrich said:


> Depends, how much of a performance increase is one getting over a 2K amp?



That's a hard question to answer because not every $2k amp is the same. There's some great low budget amps out there.. that said the woo has a TOTL refinement to it that I just haven't heard in an amp anywhere near that price. At these price points the jumps in performance are not linear, but it's definitely an end game amp and especially for me. For full transparency, I picked mine up used but new in box at a good price, I'd look for similar value if you could.



Roasty said:


> Anyone here using the wa33 with the Utopia? Any comments on this pairing? Any background noise/hum audible with these sensitive headphones?



It's a good and fun pairing. I don't get any noise or audible hum. I will say at times it feels like the Woo is overkill for them, but they sound great out of it nonetheless.


----------



## SalR406

Roasty said:


> Anyone here using the wa33 with the Utopia? Any comments on this pairing? Any background noise/hum audible with these sensitive headphones?


I've owned the Utopias for a few years now.  I've heard them driven by the WA33 a couple of times at CanJam shows and was very impressed.   It put the WA33 on my "some day" list.  The amp is more than the Utopias really need, though.  I think it puts out 10 watts Class A.  I can't really comment on background noise, since my experience was in a show floor environment.


----------



## joseph69

Roasty said:


> Anyone here using the wa33 with the Utopia? Any comments on this pairing? Any background noise/hum audible with these sensitive headphones?


The Utopia pairs excellent with the WA33. When I demoed the WA33 (in home) this pairing impressed me so much that I bought the amp immediately. The WA33 shows how well the Utopia can scale.


----------



## Roasty

joseph69 said:


> The Utopia pairs excellent with the WA33. When I demoed the WA33 (in home) this pairing impressed me so much that I bought the amp immediately. The WA33 shows how well the Utopia can scale.



Thanks very much! I don't have much chance to demo, unfortunately. Am looking at the JPS Labs version of the WA33.


----------



## Roasty

@number1sixerfan
@SalR406

Thank you both! No background hum is good news. Yes, probably overkill.. But need an amp that can also drive the 1266, and potentially a susvara down the road.


----------



## joseph69

Roasty said:


> Thanks very much! I don't have much chance to demo, unfortunately. Am looking at the JPS Labs version of the WA33.


You're welcome.
Keep in mind, when I demoed the WA33 it was the Standard Edition w/stock tubes.
Also, no background noise.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Roasty said:


> @number1sixerfan
> @SalR406
> 
> Thank you both! No background hum is good news. Yes, probably overkill.. But need an amp that can also drive the 1266, and potentially a susvara down the road.



I saw the TCs in your sig.. and if adding a Susvara it's just a no brainer. All three sound really, really good out of the WA33.


----------



## Roasty

joseph69 said:


> You're welcome.
> Keep in mind, when I demoed the WA33 it was the Standard Edition w/stock tubes.
> Also, no background noise.



I get a faint background hum with the WA22 and the Utopia. It's not apparent during music, but it's there in between songs. I don't hear the hum with the 1266, Stellia, or my previous headphones. The Utopia is probably just too sensitive. No background noise with the WA33 is a relief to hear.


----------



## Roasty

number1sixerfan said:


> I saw the TCs in your sig.. and if adding a Susvara it's just a no brainer. All three sound really, really good out of the WA33.



Yes I think and hope so too. Will likely get the amp first, before the susvara. May end up letting the wa22 and gsx mini go to make way for the 33.. Mini is really good but I still end up listening with the tube amp more.


----------



## joseph69

Roasty said:


> No background noise with the WA33 is a relief to hear.


This can also depend on your tubes, as you would know form owning the WA22.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I love my wa33 standard edition. But, I’ve got the itch to get the Elite Edition +JPS version now. $17500 is a big chunk of change, but I guess I can help bring that down when I sell my current wa33. Decisions decisions


----------



## joseph69

Ciggavelli said:


> I love my wa33 standard edition. But, I’ve got the itch to get the Elite Edition +JPS version now. $17500 is a big chunk of change, but I guess I can help bring that down when I sell my current wa33. Decisions decisions


Have you any experience with hearing the others in comparison to yours, or are you just itching blindly.


----------



## Ciggavelli

joseph69 said:


> Have you any experience with hearing the others in comparison to yours, or are you just itching blindly.


Just itching blindly


----------



## MrCypruz (Aug 10, 2020)

number1sixerfan said:


> I don't get any noise or audible hum.


With both the Utopia and Verité Closed (in Low Z and Low Gain settings) do get an audible transformer hum that reduces as the amp warms up to a point where it becomes faint but not dead quiet.

I’ve ruled out the potential presence of DC current in the circuit (most known cause for transformer hum and heat) because I’ve cleaned the line with an Emotiva CMX-2 power conditioner (it has DC offset) and an isolation transformer to which an Audioquest Niagara 1200 is connected. I’ve also ruled out the tubes - stock tubes, upgraded tubes - all of them (power, rectifier, driver) the hum is still there when the amp is cold and faint but still audible when it’s warmed up.

I’m not sure if the transformer is showing its age and would need to be tightened or replaced.

That hum between tracks is damn annoying during late night listening sessions.

No hum with the Susvara (even with High Z High Gain settings).


----------



## pippen99

My situation exactly.  I have an audible hum with the Verite Open that lessens as the amp gets warmer.  I have no hum with the LCD-4.  I also have an audible constant hum from the amp.  I spend 90% of my time on the LCD-4 so I am not particularly bothered.  Addition of power regenerator was ineffective for the hum but helped SQ.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Hmm.. interesting. I always warm my amps up 30m-1hr before actually listening so maybe that's why I haven't noticed any hum. Will try again with Utopia's and VCs today or tomorrow.


----------



## pippen99

I usually warm mine approximately 15 minutes.  Mine hums all the time to some extent.


----------



## MrCypruz

number1sixerfan said:


> Will try again with Utopia's and VCs today or tomorrow.


Please do so and report back. Thanks in advance.


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (Aug 10, 2020)

WA33 is very high power at up to 10W per chancel. It is so powerful that it can drive loudspeakers through the dual 3-pin XLR output.

When using highly efficient headphones, some noise can be heard. Imagine fitting a Mustang 5.0 V8 engine in a Mazda Miata (Monster Miata). It is expected that the V8 will make more sounds than the default V4 engine but the performance is out of this world.

We recommend using the LO level setting for highly efficient headphones to reduce the output level of the WA33.


----------



## GPD1

Hi, Wanted to see if anyone has  used the pre-amp setting within WA33 ? I currently own a naim pre-amp 282 ( running to a naim amp 300) and wanted to see if i could ditch the 282 to help fund the purchase of the WA33. Im doing most of my listening via headphones but its nice to occasionally listen via speakers


----------



## number1sixerfan (Aug 11, 2020)

Did my regular routine tonight (flip on and listened around an hour later after finishing my speaker session). Paying close attention, I can't detect any audible hum with the the Utopia or VCs at all. Literally dead silence between tracks and at the beginning and end of tracks. This is also during one of the quietest moments of the day. I'll try from a dead start tomorrow morning.

Edit - no hum this morning when using it immediately. I originally had some concern when originally researching the amp but am not encountering the issue. I'm using the WR2A3 Psvanes and 274B Sophia Mesh Plate.. haven't swapped in the stock tubes since and can't recall if there was a hum then or not.


----------



## mat.1

HiFiGuy528 said:


> WA33 is very high power at up to 10W per chancel. It is so powerful that it can drive loudspeakers through the dual 3-pin XLR output.
> 
> When using highly efficient headphones, some noise can be heard. Imagine fitting a Mustang 5.0 V8 engine in a Mazda Miata (Monster Miata). It is expected that the V8 will make more sounds than the default V4 engine but the performance is out of this world.
> 
> We recommend using the LO level setting for highly efficient headphones to reduce the output level of the WA33.



When there is a special price for this amp ?


----------



## GPD1

HiFiGuy528 said:


> WA33 is very high power at up to 10W per chancel. It is so powerful that it can drive loudspeakers through the dual 3-pin XLR output.
> 
> When using highly efficient headphones, some noise can be heard. Imagine fitting a Mustang 5.0 V8 engine in a Mazda Miata (Monster Miata). It is expected that the V8 will make more sounds than the default V4 engine but the performance is out of this world.
> 
> We recommend using the LO level setting for highly efficient headphones to reduce the output level of the WA33.



Just to be clear here . If some noise can be heard then wouldn't this affect the overall sound quality of the recording your listening to ? Or is the hum only audible in between tracks ? I'm guessing in pre-amp mode this hum goes away ?


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (Aug 12, 2020)

GPD1 said:


> Just to be clear here . If some noise can be heard then wouldn't this affect the overall sound quality of the recording your listening to ? Or is the hum only audible in between tracks ? I'm guessing in pre-amp mode this hum goes away ?



The ideal headphone(s) pairing with WA33 are HiFiMan Susvara, ABYSS 1266 TC or Diana Phi, Audeze LCD4, and other power demanding headphones.

In preamp mode, when paired with a high-end power amplifier there is no audible noise.

We have a customer in California which I visited his home using WA33 Elite Edition as preamplifier almost exclusively. He told me WA33 exceeded the performance of other preamplifiers he's tried and some of them cost more than 33 Elite.






mat.1 said:


> When there is a special price for this amp ?



Our products are priced at factory-direct to customers so it's not inflated to give discounts. We have FREE shipping worldwide and if shipped outside NY state, no U.S. sales tax.


----------



## GPD1

Thanks for the response . I feel more comfortable in regards to possibly buying after reading this review . https://www.cnet.com/news/crazy-expensive-amplifier-thrills-headphone-aficionados/
It gives the WA33 a huge wrap while  also acknowledging  the hum...  "_The WA33 Elite is a tube amplifier, so yes it has some tube noise/hiss lurking in the background, but it was only audible when I played quiet music or movies."  _


----------



## Clive101

For the avoidance of doubt the WA33 I had was dead quite as a pre and on headphones no hiss no hum just dead quite.

While I do not wish to be confrontational could it be the hiss the reviewer heard was from other parts in the system ? 

There is a hum however if you put your ear close to the casing (be careful it gets hot, any temperature readings anyone !)  which I guess is normal for transformers.

I am about to receive a WA33 Elite JPS I do not expect any hum or hiss coming through the headphones or preamp, if I do I will be very upset.

Perhaps a little hum if I put my ear very close to the casing that is all I will accept as owning a dead quite WA33 I expect similar. 

@HiFiGuy528    Are there differences in manufacture or could it be the way the amps are treated historically or personal hearing?


----------



## mat.1

Whats the difference in sound in WR2A3 Psvane VS Psvane Acme 2a3 ?


----------



## Bonddam (Aug 15, 2020)

been playing around with hi z and find the 1266 tc and lcd 4 sound better no hum or any noise. Only hum is during warm up but gets lower and lower as it gets warmed up till it disappears. No turn on or off pops.


----------



## pippen99

I have always used hi z.  No hum with the LCD-4, noticeable hum with the ZMF VO.


----------



## MasonStorm

I currently enjoy Woo's WA-234 monoblocks (the older version that uses 6SN7 drivers) and am considering eventually buying a WA33.  I wanted to point out an advantage I perceive of using monoblocks, and try to put to rest a misconception I keep seeing people type in around here.  Namely:  you don't adjust the individual volume knobs every time you play a piece of music (unless you want to); _you only need to do that when you roll in different tubes_.  Once that's done, you just adjust the overall/stereo volume with your DAC, using the DAC's remote control.  This is actually a TREMENDOUS advantage, since your two power or two driver tubes may have different gain, plate current or transconductance due to aging - and that no longer matters, since you just adjust the volume on the individual sides so that you perceive it as being equal.  This allows you to benefit by not having to worry about purchasing matched tubes (which may be either unavailable, or a lot more expensive).  This is one of my biggest holdups about eventually buying a WA33:  one assumes you always have to acquire a closely-matched quad of 2A3's, thus severely limiting the ability to pick up NOS variants.  Furthermore, all four must be replaced altogether if one of them fails, so as to maintain a good match.

I'll grant you that the WA-234 doesn't seem to make as much magic w/300B's that other, dedicated 300B amps can do, but 300B's still sound very good - as do 2A3's and 45's - and it's been great to be able to roll in any of them.  I think 45's are WAY underrated, and are often some of my very favorite tubes, with a richness of tonality, bass extension and bass slam that 2A3's and 300B's often cannot match.

Has anyone here heard both a WA-234 (using 2A3's at the time), and a WA33, and could offer comments from a close comparison?


----------



## joseph69

HiFiGuy528 said:


> The ideal headphone(s) pairing with WA33 are HiFiMan Susvara, ABYSS 1266 TC or Diana Phi, Audeze LCD4, and other power demanding headphones.


To be quite honest, I find all of my headphones sounding ideal out of the WA33, not just headphones that demand power.


----------



## MrCypruz

joseph69 said:


> To be quite honest, I find all of my headphones sounding ideal out of the WA33, not just headphones that demand power.


+1!

The WA33 actually makes all my headphones “disappear” because of how effortlessly and naturally the music is presented, it also reveals how they can scale - Utopia and Verité Closed being the most impressive in terms of scalability. I also use it as a pre-amp for my RAAL-requisite SR1a. I’ve been enjoying the EML 300B 2.5 Mesh Plate tubes, love the 300B sound and I like it a bit better than 2A3.


----------



## joseph69

MrCypruz said:


> Utopia and Verité Closed being the most impressive in terms of scalability.


I definitely agree on how excellent the Utopia (don't own the VC) scales with the WA33 as well as really enjoy my HE1000V2 very much. The Utopia/WA33 combo may be my favorite , and I say this even after owning the Susvara. With that said, I'd like to revisit the Susvara sometime in the future, maybe.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Aug 16, 2020)

TC & WA33 is probably my favorite pairing, after that the Susvara.

I didn’t like the Utopias with the WA33. I think my tubes made them extremely bright (like very uncomfortable). I also like using the wa33 as a preamp to the RAAL sr1as.

I don’t care too much for the VCs, in general, and the wa33 doesn’t change that. I like the Audeze lcd 4z outta the wa33, but it’s not reaching Susvara or TC levels.

I also tried my IEM with the WA33. The Noble Audio Khan actually sounds very good outta the wa33, though of course the amp is extreme overkill.


----------



## joseph69

Ciggavelli said:


> I didn’t like the Utopias with the WA33. I think my tubes made them extremely bright (like very uncomfortable).


Interesting.
I found the complete opposite with the stock, as well as the EML, EHX Gold Pin & USAF 596 tubes.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Aug 16, 2020)

joseph69 said:


> Interesting.
> I found the complete opposite with the stock, as well as the EML, EHX Gold Pin & USAF 596 tubes.


It’s the Takatsuki TA274B that is doing it. I read about it previously. For every other headphones I have the Tak works great though


----------



## joseph69

Well at least you know why the Utopia sounds extremely bright, which could easily be fixed.


----------



## Ciggavelli

joseph69 said:


> Well at least you know why the Utopia sounds extremely bright, which could easily be fixed.


I sold the Utopias for the Susvaras. No regrets at all. The Susvara out of the WA33 is so, so good (second to only the TCs).

Maybe I’ll get some Utopias again (I’ve sometimes thought about it), but it’s not a top priority. Saving up a little more for the WA33 Elite Edition is though.


----------



## MrCypruz

Ciggavelli said:


> It’s the Takatsuki TA274B that is doing it. I read about it previously


Another example of how we all hear differently. I’ve the TK274B rectifier and the Utopia did scale really well with all the power tubes I have (stock, EML 2A3 solid, EML 300B 2.5 Mesh) and I honestly prefer them over the Susvara on the WA33. They never sounded extremely bright, on the contrary, very balanced and dynamic, the sound stage being the most impressive improvement - I never thought that The Utopia could sound this wide but it does on the WA33.
The Susvara is very music dependent for me, they can sound extremely smooth and soft at times that leaves me wanting (or even craving) more.
The 1266 TC do shine on the WA33, the combo is heavenly.


----------



## joseph69

Ciggavelli said:


> I sold the Utopias for the Susvaras. No regrets at all.


I owned the Susvara, Utopia & HE1000V2 at the same and sold my Susvara. No regrets at all, but as I mentioned, I might revisit the Susvara in the future, maybe.



MrCypruz said:


> I honestly prefer them over the Susvara on the WA33. They never sounded extremely bright, on the contrary, very balanced and dynamic, the sound stage being the most impressive improvement - I never thought that The Utopia could sound this wide but it does on the WA33.
> The Susvara is very music dependent for me, they can sound extremely smooth and soft at times that leaves me wanting (or even craving) more.


We definitely have very similar sound preferences, and I agree about the sound stage on the Utopia with the WA33 100%, as well as ever other aspect being improved substantially, The Susvara also left me wanting more as well which is why I kept both, the Utopia & HE1000V2 over them.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Aug 16, 2020)

MrCypruz said:


> Another example of how we all hear differently. I’ve the TK274B rectifier and the Utopia did scale really well with all the power tubes I have (stock, EML 2A3 solid, EML 300B 2.5 Mesh) and I honestly prefer them over the Susvara on the WA33. They never sounded extremely bright, on the contrary, very balanced and dynamic, the sound stage being the most impressive improvement - I never thought that The Utopia could sound this wide but it does on the WA33.
> The Susvara is very music dependent for me, they can sound extremely smooth and soft at times that leaves me wanting (or even craving) more.
> The 1266 TC do shine on the WA33, the combo is heavenly.


Yeah, true. A lot of people say the SR1a is too bright for example, but it isn’t to me at all.  I have strange ears perhaps


----------



## number1sixerfan

The susvara and tc's are about as good as it gets out of the WA33. Performance wise, there just aren't many combos touching them. That said, the Utopias out of the WA33 are really, really good. I can't see myself offloading them.. I love the forward nature, the dynamics and the fun factor (also admit every now and then it's a bit bright). The tc's have slightly recessed mids and the Susvaras are too polite and soft at times, so the Utopias are a great compliment to them both.

And definitely agree that the WA33 does well with low and high power hungry headphones.. just need to be careful switching between the two.


----------



## Bonddam

I am experiencing flash backs with the LCD 4 in low impedance echo sounds are more distant and trippy. It's like the decay goes on forever. It is quiet an experience if you listen to edm. Tubes used EML 300B 2.5 solid Takasuki 274B and EH. I don't think I have favorite setting just go with the flow. For me the 1266 tc sounds it's best on Hi impedance.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

joseph69 said:


> To be quite honest, I find all of my headphones sounding ideal out of the WA33, not just headphones that demand power.



If you have the vintage Sennheiser HD800, give it a try on WA33. The pairing is incredible. It shows how much the HD800 can scale up with a proper amp.


----------



## musicman59

HiFiGuy528 said:


> If you have the vintage Sennheiser HD800, give it a try on WA33. The pairing is incredible. It shows how much the HD800 can scale up with a proper amp.


Hi Mike!
I remember trying them at Axpona couple of years ago with the Axious AG cable on the WA33 Elite Edition. My jaw dropped! I have never heard them like that (I own them). The sounded fantastic!


----------



## joseph69

HiFiGuy528 said:


> If you have the vintage Sennheiser HD800, give it a try on WA33. The pairing is incredible. It shows how much the HD800 can scale up with a proper amp.


Yes, I have the HD800 and paired with the WA33 it's incredible indeed, like everything else!


----------



## Cyntax

Cyntax said:


> I think I'm going to take the plunge with the WA33 Standard JPS Labs edition. Seems like there aren't many direct impressions/reviews. So I'm going to be the first. Ordering tonight and will report back when it arrives!




The JPS Labs Edition WA33 finally came in and i've had a few days now to give it a listen. I will do a full impressions post once the amp fully breaks in. But wanted to give a quick update. 

Currently my setup is:

_Chord MScaler -> Wave Storm BNC Cables -> Chord Hugo TT2 -> JPS Labs Super Conductor 4 XLR -> Wa33 JPS Labs Edition -> Superconductor HP cable -> Abyss 1266 Phi TC_

Even after only 15-20 hours or so of breakin I can easily say that THIS is the sound i've always wanted. The detail and full meaty instrument texture and just very musical. The way the amp controls and pushes the 1266 is absolutely unbelievable. With the M Scaler and TT2 i've always been battling the brightness that comes with the detail they provide. With this amp and the cables the brightness is gone and the detail is still there. The 1266 now pushes out an incredible amount of texture in the instruments. I had a non-audiophile friend come have a listen to her favorite songs and she had tears running down. So I feel like it's not just me that is blown away by how much this amp (with the tubes and cables) can make the 1266 come alive. 

I have noticed that the amp needs quite a bit of time to fully warm up and be at it's best. I would guess 10-20mins before it really opens up, but I will do more testing on the coming days. And this thing gets very hot.

Also wanted to say a special thanks to Abyss and JPS Labs for being patient while I asked them a million questions. Customer support there is top notch and they shipped all this out incredibly fast. Everything was packed extremely well.


----------



## Ciggavelli

That’s interesting your friend had tears. I’ve sometimes felt that being on the audiophile journey is almost like a religious experience. When you achieve a new level of sound quality, it’s liking opening up a whole new world. When you reach a certain level, you understand the world better and everything makes a bit more sense.


----------



## number1sixerfan

The TC's out of the WA33 are really amazing. Spent hours with the combo just last night. Agree with all of the comments above on how they sound together. 

Prior to spending the bulk of the evening with the TCs, I spent some time with the vintage AKG K1000 and ATH-L3000s.. as well as the Susvara and Utopia. It's pretty amazing just how good this amp sounds with every single headphone, no matter how different each one may be from another.


----------



## GPD1

Cyntax said:


> The JPS Labs Edition WA33 finally came in and i've had a few days now to give it a listen. I will do a full impressions post once the amp fully breaks in. But wanted to give a quick update.
> 
> Currently my setup is:
> 
> ...


I'm also looking at the various options.. what made you settle on this version and not either of the other two?


----------



## acguitar84

number1sixerfan said:


> The TC's out of the WA33 are really amazing. Spent hours with the combo just last night. Agree with all of the comments above on how they sound together.
> 
> Prior to spending the bulk of the evening with the TCs, I spent some time with the vintage AKG K1000 and ATH-L3000s.. as well as the Susvara and Utopia. It's pretty amazing just how good this amp sounds with every single headphone, no matter how different each one may be from another.


How much better is the wa33, is it a huge step up from the gsx-mini? I've had the mini for a few months now, and I've really been digging it, in fact listening right now. Sounds great. But...in this hobby...lol


----------



## Cyntax

GPD1 said:


> I'm also looking at the various options.. what made you settle on this version and not either of the other two?



What made me choose the JPS Edition was the tubes that JPS provides for the amp. They chose tubes that specifically sound well for the Abyss headphones. I had decided at that point to go with all JPS cables with the assumption that it is what they would have used when choosing the tubes they chose for wa33.


----------



## number1sixerfan (Aug 29, 2020)

acguitar84 said:


> How much better is the wa33, is it a huge step up from the gsx-mini? I've had the mini for a few months now, and I've really been digging it, in fact listening right now. Sounds great. But...in this hobby...lol



It honestly depends on how you look at things and the gear that you have. The Mini is really really good. I could definitely be happy to a large degree with just it and almost every headphone I have. Huge performer for the money.. as a matter of fact I was very happy with it lol

The WA33 is a pretty big step ahead performance wise. Detail retrieval, separation/imaging, the surreal nature and overall refinement really stick out.. it just sounds so polished and optimal with every headphone. Based on what I had read before purchasing I did expect the Woo to be a notch ahead bass wise, but I was really surprised by how close the Mini is there.. both are really good on that end.

Now with the TCs and Susvara and hard to drive phones.. K1000 as well. It just really shines. The Mini just does well minus the K1000 (which totally expected), but it doesn't get the most out of them. The WA33 takes them to another level (but keep in mind I've also felt this with this way with the easy to drive Utopia lol). Being transparent, none of these upgrades are linear when it comes to costs/benefit so as I always say, try to find a bargain (used or NIB). And if not, the Mini (and some others) will get you most of the way there, but the WA33 is end game.


----------



## JLoud

Anyone have any comparisons to the WA5le v2? That is my current amp. I have been considering the WA33 for a while and started liquidating some other gear in anticipation of picking one up. I do like the weighty mids of the WA5le and am curious of the improvements with the WA33.


----------



## JLoud

Well thanks to kind fellow head-fi member I've joined the WA33 club. Just settling down to enjoy it. Seems pretty well matched with my Abyss TC.


----------



## koven

Anyone replace feet and know the thread size? M6? M8?


----------



## joseph69

JLoud said:


> Well thanks to kind fellow head-fi member I've joined the WA33 club. Just settling down to enjoy it. Seems pretty well matched with my Abyss TC.


Which tubes did you start with?


----------



## MrCypruz

JLoud said:


> Well thanks to kind fellow head-fi member I've joined the WA33 club. Just settling down to enjoy it. Seems pretty well matched with my Abyss TC.


Try to use it as a preamp to the JotR to get the tube flavor on the SR1a. It’s a whole different experience when compared to the standalone JotR straight from the DAC.


----------



## JLoud

The EML 2A3's, gold pin drivers and 596 rectifier. Going to stick with them for a bit and then maybe swap in a EML 5U4G mesh plate I have. Just try one change at a time. Really enjoying the current setup.


----------



## JLoud

MrCypruz said:


> Try to use it as a preamp to the JotR to get the tube flavor on the SR1a. It’s a whole different experience when compared to the standalone JotR straight from the DAC.



I was thinking about that, What did it add in your experience?


----------



## JLoud

MrCypruz said:


> Try to use it as a preamp to the JotR to get the tube flavor on the SR1a. It’s a whole different experience when compared to the standalone JotR straight from the DAC.


Where did you run volume settings at? Did you use the WA33 or JotR for volume control?


----------



## joseph69

JLoud said:


> Really enjoying the current setup.


Nothing not to enjoy running those tubes, for sure.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Sep 4, 2020)

JLoud said:


> Where did you run volume settings at? Did you use the WA33 or JotR for volume control?


I do this too. Wa33 at like 10 o’clock, Jot R volume control from 11 to 2 (mostly).

If you put the Wa33 louder than 11 or 12 o’clock, it overdrives the JotR


----------



## JLoud

joseph69 said:


> Nothing not to enjoy running those tubes, for sure.


Were those the tubes you used primarily? I did follow the notes you left as to location of the tubes in the amp.


----------



## JLoud

The WA33 seems to add some a nice sense of space to the SR1A. Only way I can explain it. Very nice.


----------



## MrCypruz

JLoud said:


> Where did you run volume settings at? Did you use the WA33 or JotR for volume control?


I use two settings, the first one is the HSA-1a (I don’t use the JotR) as a “power amp” with maxed out volume and control the volume on the WA33 just to get the pure analog signal and the second one is with volume attenuation in both amps (both the WA33 and the HSA-1a at around 12 o’clock). The sense of space and ease to the sound are the most remarkable differences to me, at the cost of a slight reduction in overall speed and transients.


----------



## joseph69

JLoud said:


> Were those the tubes you used primarily? I did follow the notes you left as to location of the tubes in the amp.


Yes, they were.
Why do you ask, was there an issue with the notes for the tube placement, or is it how good they sound?


----------



## JLoud

No issues at all. I’m really enjoying the combination.


----------



## ahossam

JLoud said:


> Well thanks to kind fellow head-fi member I've joined the WA33 club. Just settling down to enjoy it. Seems pretty well matched with my Abyss TC.



How is WA33 compared to WA5?


----------



## JLoud

A clear step up. I used to choose between my WA5le and the GSX mk2. The Woo had the spaciousness and naturalness I really enjoy. But the GSX was faster and the bass hit harder. Now I no longer have to choose. The WA33 is lightning fast but has the analog sound I love. Bass goes deeper and hit harder. Kind of a combination of the two amps I had.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

WA33 at its new home in California. Source is dCS Rossini from another room controlled via iPad wired with 8m long JPS Labs XLR cables.


----------



## Bonddam

I miss my TC and WA33 there all packed to get to the new house. I keep wanting to take them back out. Withdrawal is bad. Lol gives me time with my other setup.


----------



## ThanatosVI

HiFiGuy528 said:


> WA33 at its new home in California. Source is dCS Rossini from another room controlled via iPad wired with 8m long JPS Labs XLR cables.


Wa 33 and Meze Empyrean, the dream setup!


----------



## Slim1970

ThanatosVI said:


> Wa 33 and Meze Empyrean, the dream setup!


WA33 and just about any headphone could be considered a dream setup


----------



## ThanatosVI

Slim1970 said:


> WA33 and just about any headphone could be considered a dream setup


That's not wrong, but in my personal case it is definitely the Meze Empyrean.


----------



## musicman59

HiFiGuy528 said:


> WA33 at its new home in California. Source is dCS Rossini from another room controlled via iPad wired with 8m long JPS Labs XLR cables.


Me want one!!!!!


----------



## mat.1

what is the setting for impedance and level on preamp output ?


----------



## mat.1

ThanatosVI said:


> Wa 33 and Meze Empyrean, the dream setup!


what is the volume setting on your meze empyrean ? i am on 07.30 already loud .


----------



## ThanatosVI

mat.1 said:


> what is the volume setting on your meze empyrean ? i am on 07.30 already loud .


I don't have a wa33, for me this setup is only a dream


----------



## mat.1

ThanatosVI said:


> I don't have a wa33, for me this setup is only a dream


Sorry.


----------



## mat.1

HiFiGuy528 said:


> WA33 at its new home in California. Source is dCS Rossini from another room controlled via iPad wired with 8m long JPS Labs XLR cables.


what is the setting for impedance and level , mine on 07.30 volume is already loud.


----------



## Dubstep Girl (Oct 4, 2020)

HiFiGuy528 said:


> The ideal headphone(s) pairing with WA33 are HiFiMan Susvara, ABYSS 1266 TC or Diana Phi, Audeze LCD4, and other power demanding headphones.
> 
> In preamp mode, when paired with a high-end power amplifier there is no audible noise.
> 
> ...





JLoud said:


> A clear step up. I used to choose between my WA5le and the GSX mk2. The Woo had the spaciousness and naturalness I really enjoy. But the GSX was faster and the bass hit harder. Now I no longer have to choose. The WA33 is lightning fast but has the analog sound I love. Bass goes deeper and hit harder. Kind of a combination of the two amps I had.



That speaker setup looks like a dream. I found my endgame in the WA5 a few years ago and have only upgraded tubes to 596, BGRP, and WE300B, its pretty much perfect and is used to drive a pair of Omega speakers or my HE-6. I do however, look at this amp and find it quite intriguing, as well as just 2A3 amplifiers in general. There aren’t many 300B or 2A3 designs in the headphone world despite then being well regarded in the low watt SET speaker amp side of things and having great tube rolling choices.

Comparing WA5 to WA33 is something I’m really curious of. Although I haven’t heard a WA33, going off the design. I feel like the WA33 would be tighter, more neutral, and accurate, as well as sweeter due to the 2A3 tube, but maybe missing some of the openness and purity of the 300B due to the push pull design. That said, the WA33 probably sounds better stock where the WA5 absolutely requires WE300B as there is no other substitute that really provides the magic of those tubes, also requires good rectifier and drivers to really shine at the same level. Also, WA33 gives slightly more power.

Would be great to hear some impressions here with both amps being upgraded as I am looking for a 2A3 speaker amp (both single and push pull designs) in the future and am looking at this as well due to preamp + headphone outputs. I currently use a GSX Mk2 as a preamp into my WA5 or a first watt J2 amp.

I feel that headphone amps function really well as preamps since the general specs of them for headphones (ie low noise, output impedance, gain, etc) are ideal for a bona fide speaker preamp. 

I dream of the day I add a 2A3 speaker / headphone / preamp to my system.


----------



## mat.1

how long the break in time for wa33 ? I have 25 hours and the sound is not better than Chord Hugo TT2 .
and I got the 5U3C rectifier instead of 5U4G.


----------



## moemoney (Oct 5, 2020)

mat.1 said:


> how long the break in time for wa33 ? I have 25 hours and the sound is not better than Chord Hugo TT2 .
> and I got the 5U3C rectifier instead of 5U4G.


I don’t have the wa33, but I do have the wa22 2nd ver. And was told that it required 150 hours I used the stock tubes to break-in


----------



## JLoud

The tubes used make a big difference. What power/driver tubes are you using? I have EML power tubes and an EML 5U4G mesh rectifier. Huge upgrade over stock tubes.


----------



## JLoud

Of course tubes require break-in as well. Many say 150-300 hours for tubes.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Yeah, the tubes really do make a difference. Stock tubes are good, but upgraded tubes are great. They’re expensive, but worth it.


----------



## mat.1

JLoud said:


> The tubes used make a big difference. What power/driver tubes are you using? I have EML power tubes and an EML 5U4G mesh rectifier. Huge upgrade over stock tubes.


Standard tubes


----------



## koven

Even stock tubes will start sounding much better w/ burn in, give it some time. I wasn't disappointed w/ the stock set, but do hear noticeable improvements w/ better tubes.


----------



## joseph69

JLoud said:


> The tubes used make a big difference. What power/driver tubes are you using? I have EML power tubes and an EML 5U4G mesh rectifier. Huge upgrade over stock tubes.


You also have the EH 6C45Pi upgraded driver tubes.


----------



## mat.1

koven said:


> Even stock tubes will start sounding much better w/ burn in, give it some time. I wasn't disappointed w/ the stock set, but do hear noticeable improvements w/ better tubes.


Thanks ,
 I will give some times for break in.
I just wondered, why the sound is better directly from Hugo TT2 , makes me worry.


----------



## JLoud

And thank you for those tubes joseph69! Enjoying switching the rectifiers out as well. The 596 and EML definitely sound different.


----------



## JLoud

Has anyone used the WA33 as a preamp? Thinking of using it to run some mono block amps.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

JLoud said:


> Has anyone used the WA33 as a preamp? Thinking of using it to run some mono block amps.



This customer in California purchased WA33 Elite Edition mainly to use as a preamplifier. The headphones feature was a bonus. I took this picture at his home.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

koven said:


> Even stock tubes will start sounding much better w/ burn in, give it some time. I wasn't disappointed w/ the stock set, but do hear noticeable improvements w/ better tubes.



IKR! It doesn't make sense that people would say the stock tubes are bad sounding. Why would we supply our amplifiers with bad sounding tubes? We want our customers to have a positive experience right out of the box so they don't return the amp! In fact, the stock tubes is what we typically use at trade shows.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

mat.1 said:


> how long the break in time for wa33 ? I have 25 hours and the sound is not better than Chord Hugo TT2 .
> and I got the 5U3C rectifier instead of 5U4G.



We could better assist you if we know how the system is set up (the source) and what headphone(s) you're using. Good quality pictures of the system would be helpful.


----------



## JLoud

Awesome news. Basically what I suspected. And that is a nice looking system.


----------



## joseph69

HiFiGuy528 said:


> It doesn't make sense that people would say the stock tubes are bad sounding.


I bought the WA33 based on listening to it with the stock tubes.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Oct 7, 2020)

Gotta love that wa33 remote when using it as a preamp 



Spoiler



That’s like my only complaint regarding the wa33 though


----------



## JLoud

I have long arms.


----------



## mat.1

HiFiGuy528 said:


> We could better assist you if we know how the system is set up (the source) and what headphone(s) you're using. Good quality pictures of the system would be helpful.


Thanks ,
System : IPad/PC - Mscaler- Hugo TT2 - Abyss Phi TC .


----------



## moemoney

What about the elephant in the room the WA 33


----------



## Roasty

I just did a thing...


----------



## Ciggavelli

Roasty said:


> I just did a thing...


I knew you’d do it 

Enjoy the wa33 man. I think you’ll be very happy. I recommend getting upgraded tubes. They really do make a great sounding amp sound that much better


----------



## JLoud

Totally worth the price. The WA33 made my LCD-4 into a totally different headphone. In a good way. Tightened up the bass, extended the sound-stage, and exerts an iron grip on the drivers.


----------



## Roasty

Ciggavelli said:


> I knew you’d do it
> 
> Enjoy the wa33 man. I think you’ll be very happy. I recommend getting upgraded tubes. They really do make a great sounding amp sound that much better



Thanks man! Yep it was a really long time coming. Went for the jps edition with upgrade tubes. Just the waiting game now..


----------



## mat.1

Hi guys, 
Any recommendation for upgrade tubes .
because of budget i need to upgrade gradually.
1. EH 6C45Pi + Takatsuki TA274B
  or
2. WR2A3

which one i need to upgrade first ?

Thanks.


----------



## Roasty

Is anyone using a JPS power cord with the WA33?


----------



## JLoud

Roasty, you'll have to give us a comparison of the TC and the Susvara on the WA33. I have been debating on getting one for a while. But I generally find the Hifiman sound brighter than I like. The Edition X is really the only one I have really liked. Have had or listened to everything but the Arya and Susvara.


----------



## Roasty

JLoud said:


> Roasty, you'll have to give us a comparison of the TC and the Susvara on the WA33. I have been debating on getting one for a while. But I generally find the Hifiman sound brighter than I like. The Edition X is really the only one I have really liked. Have had or listened to everything but the Arya and Susvara.



Will do. Im guessing another 3 weeks or so before I get the wa33. 

I agree, the Susvara is a pretty bright headphone with quite shrill highs. Much more so than my Utopia. Its overall thin sound doesn't help much too. 

I did manage to tame it somewhat and get some warmth and body back using a combination of an eq which I posted on the Susvara thread, and using better tubes in my wa22. The Susvara does need power to bring out its mids and bass; I couldn't get a decent sound out of it if I was using anything other than ECC35 and we421a/ts5998 tubes. 

With the above, I am getting some lovely sound out of the susvara, probably more so than the Utopia. Am hoping it will be even better with the wa33 and the upgrade tubes. 

On a side note, ended up getting an Obsession power cord for the wa33 from Pete at Triode Wire Labs.


----------



## JLoud

Wow that is a pricey power cord. Looks beautiful though. Should compliment the WA33 nicely.


----------



## Roasty

JLoud said:


> Wow that is a pricey power cord. Looks beautiful though. Should compliment the WA33 nicely.



Yea it did set me back a fair bit! I take solace in the fact that there are also much more expensive power cords out there. I've ordered from Pete several times and he has never done any hard selling or over recommend his pricier items. He mentioned he knows Jack from Woo, and when I told him the cord was for the wa33, he said it was an awesome amp and wanted to pair it with his best cord. Also, FOMO... Lol.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I also use the Susvaras and TCs with my WA33 EE/JPS. The Susvaras scaled up crazy. They sounded good on the WA33 standard, but they sound even better on the elite. I actually couldn’t believe how good it sounded. The TCs scaled up too, but it was greater with the Susvaras.

A long while back I asked some poster what he thought about the Susvaras vs TCs. He said that whichever one he had on was his favorite. Basically, 1a and 1b. At the time I didn’t understand that comment. I initially thought the Susvaras sounded kind of boring.

I don’t know if it’s because of the wa33 or just finally getting my mind around the Susvaras (or both), but I actually find myself reaching for the Susvaras much more often.

Side note: I am using the wa33 as a preamp for my Sr1as with the JotR. The sr1as did not scale up at all. With the TCs and Susvaras scaling up nicely with the elite, I actually find the sr1as to be too thin, lacking weight, and just at a lower level compared to the TCs and Susvaras. I rarely listen to the sr1as now. Their flaws are just too apparent now. I’m most likely going to sell them.

Funny thing was though, prior to getting the WA33 Elite, I was loving the sr1as...hahaha.


----------



## JonathanKlein

Ciggavelli said:


> I also use the Susvaras and TCs with my WA33 EE/JPS. The Susvaras scaled up crazy. They sounded good on the WA33 standard, but they sound even better on the elite. I actually couldn’t believe how good it sounded. The TCs scaled up too, but it was greater with the Susvaras.
> 
> A long while back I asked some poster what he thought about the Susvaras vs TCs. He said that whichever one he had on was his favorite. Basically, 1a and 1b. At the time I didn’t understand that comment. I initially thought the Susvaras sounded kind of boring.
> 
> ...



Reading this post just saved me some coin. I always thought the sr1as were the ideal compliment to the TCs. I just bought the TCs and Susvaras together and thought I made a mistake by getting HPs that were too similar sonically. Glad to hear that's not the case.


----------



## Roasty

@Ciggavelli could it be the JotR that is the limiting factor?


----------



## jlbrach

Ciggavelli said:


> I also use the Susvaras and TCs with my WA33 EE/JPS. The Susvaras scaled up crazy. They sounded good on the WA33 standard, but they sound even better on the elite. I actually couldn’t believe how good it sounded. The TCs scaled up too, but it was greater with the Susvaras.
> 
> A long while back I asked some poster what he thought about the Susvaras vs TCs. He said that whichever one he had on was his favorite. Basically, 1a and 1b. At the time I didn’t understand that comment. I initially thought the Susvaras sounded kind of boring.
> 
> ...


I also have found the susvara grows on you and when I added the bakoon 13r they just opened up and sound glorious...I do disagree about the sr1a which I find to be the best HP I have ever heard and I use the Jotr


----------



## Ciggavelli

Roasty said:


> @Ciggavelli could it be the JotR that is the limiting factor?


Yes, I think that might be the limiting factor. I need to try the hsa-1b amp from Raal


----------



## mat.1

Please did anyone have any opinion between KR 274B and Takatsuki ?


----------



## JLoud

Also consider the Emission Lab tubes as well. That is what I’m running in my WA33.


----------



## koven

mat.1 said:


> Please did anyone have any opinion between KR 274B and Takatsuki ?



The KR sounds great. I considered the Taka but wanted to match the KR power tubes. 

In other news, I put the WA33 on a vibration platform. I measured w/ a phone app and it drops MMI to ~0.1. I unscientifically tested by tapping my foot on the ground next to it. The taps measure >1.0 without the platform so it certainly 'works' but hard to say if the sonic impact is negligible or material, too much hassle to A/B on such a heavy amp. At minimum I will succumb to the satisfaction from placebo and aesthetics.


----------



## JLoud

Have a link for the platform?


----------



## koven

JLoud said:


> Have a link for the platform?



Here's the product page:
http://www.townshendaudio.com/hi-fi...inema-equipment-vibration-isolation-platform/

I bought it from them off AudiogoN (he'll take $600). Just indicate C weight load. Arrived fast from UK via DHL. 
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/l...n-platform-size-2-48x35cm-19x14-superb-tweaks

Pretty good stuff, I now want to try their isolation bars on my floorstanders.


----------



## JLoud

Thanks


----------



## mat.1

koven said:


> The KR sounds great. I considered the Taka but wanted to match the KR power tubes.
> 
> In other news, I put the WA33 on a vibration platform. I measured w/ a phone app and it drops MMI to ~0.1. I unscientifically tested by tapping my foot on the ground next to it. The taps measure >1.0 without the platform so it certainly 'works' but hard to say if the sonic impact is negligible or material, too much hassle to A/B on such a heavy amp. At minimum I will succumb to the satisfaction from placebo and aesthetics.
> 
> ...


----------



## Roasty

Thanks for the Townsend platform link! Was just researching. The isoacoustics delos platform looks pretty good in walnut.


----------



## ThanatosVI

koven said:


> The KR sounds great. I considered the Taka but wanted to match the KR power tubes.
> 
> In other news, I put the WA33 on a vibration platform. I measured w/ a phone app and it drops MMI to ~0.1. I unscientifically tested by tapping my foot on the ground next to it. The taps measure >1.0 without the platform so it certainly 'works' but hard to say if the sonic impact is negligible or material, too much hassle to A/B on such a heavy amp. At minimum I will succumb to the satisfaction from placebo and aesthetics.


In what price region are the platforms and the stand?
I currently cant measure my rig for an official email, but Figured to ask here for an example


----------



## koven

Roasty said:


> Thanks for the Townsend platform link! Was just researching. The isoacoustics delos platform looks pretty good in walnut.



Symposium makes beautiful platforms too, just to add another option. I was originally planning to purchase a Symposium platform but a friend turned me onto Townshend, said their speaker isolation worked wonders for him.



ThanatosVI said:


> In what price region are the platforms and the stand?
> I currently cant measure my rig for an official email, but Figured to ask here for an example



http://www.townshendaudio.com/pricelist/Retail Pricelist June 2016 - Townshend.pdf


----------



## Roasty

koven said:


> Symposium makes beautiful platforms too, just to add another option. I was originally planning to purchase a Symposium platform but a friend turned me onto Townshend, said their speaker isolation worked wonders for him.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.townshendaudio.com/pricelist/Retail Pricelist June 2016 - Townshend.pdf



Reading the Symposium site.. Looks like the rubber feet should be removed and their Couplers inserted between amp and platform. Hmm not to keen for metal on metal..

"Rubber feet and squishy devices are NOT suitable and will actually trap internal mechanical energy inside the component, increasing inherent resonances and the distortions (whether euphonic or unpleasant) they cause. While a number of established footer devices can be used, mechanical coupling is an essential part of the Ultra's function, and so we supply a simple device which we have found to be quite effective with all Symposium platforms: the Coupler."


----------



## JonathanKlein

Isn't the primary purpose of these high end isolation racks meant for systems with speakers where sonic vibration is the main culprit?


----------



## koven

Roasty said:


> Reading the Symposium site.. Looks like the rubber feet should be removed and their Couplers inserted between amp and platform. Hmm not to keen for metal on metal..
> 
> "Rubber feet and squishy devices are NOT suitable and will actually trap internal mechanical energy inside the component, increasing inherent resonances and the distortions (whether euphonic or unpleasant) they cause. While a number of established footer devices can be used, mechanical coupling is an essential part of the Ultra's function, and so we supply a simple device which we have found to be quite effective with all Symposium platforms: the Coupler."



Maybe they're just upselling their Couplers.


----------



## Roasty

JonathanKlein said:


> Isn't the primary purpose of these high end isolation racks meant for systems with speakers where sonic vibration is the main culprit?



That's true. Secondary purpose is an excuse to spend money and for aesthetics. Tertiary purpose is enhancement of placebo effect!


----------



## JonathanKlein

Roasty said:


> That's true. Secondary purpose is an excuse to spend money and for aesthetics. Tertiary purpose is enhancement of placebo effect!



Now that's a true audiophile justification! I think I want one now lol


----------



## koven

It's all fun and games until someone gets a set of cable risers for their headphone cable..


----------



## Roasty

koven said:


> It's all fun and games until someone gets a set of cable risers for their headphone cable..


----------



## ThanatosVI

Roasty said:


>


How long till your WA33 arrives?


----------



## Roasty

ThanatosVI said:


> How long till your WA33 arrives?



I ordered on 10/10, so I think maybe in another 2 or 3 weeks, I hope!


----------



## ThanatosVI

Roasty said:


> I ordered on 10/10, so I think maybe in another 2 or 3 weeks, I hope!


Rockna wavelight -> WA33 

One hell of a chain
Too bad you don't have the Empyrean anymore.  Would have loved to hear your impressions on that setup


----------



## Roasty

ThanatosVI said:


> Rockna wavelight -> WA33
> 
> One hell of a chain
> Too bad you don't have the Empyrean anymore.  Would have loved to hear your impressions on that setup



Actually, you're right. I don't recall seeing any posts on wa33 + Empyrean.


----------



## JLoud

I had the WA5le and the Empyrean. I found the mid bass too overwhelming. The WA33 is more neutral, at least on my configuration. I still think they would be too warm for my taste. Interesting question though.


----------



## ThanatosVI

JLoud said:


> I had the WA5le and the Empyrean. I found the mid bass too overwhelming. The WA33 is more neutral, at least on my configuration. I still think they would be too warm for my taste. Interesting question though.


Did you try that with a new pair of Empyrean?
That midbass hump settles down noteably with burn in (or brain burn in...)

The WA5LE is also a very nice amp. Also the most affordable 300B amp that comes to mind.


----------



## mat.1

How hot is the wa33 , I can not touch chasis because is so hot ?
is it ok for this amp to be this hot ? My ambient temp is about 28 Celsius.


----------



## JLoud

ThanatosVI said:


> Did you try that with a new pair of Empyrean?
> That midbass hump settles down noteably with burn in (or brain burn in...)
> 
> The WA5LE is also a very nice amp. Also the most affordable 300B amp that comes to mind.


I had the Empyreans for about a month. So maybe 50 hours. Maybe I didn’t wait long enough. Will have to hear a nice “broken in” pair again. Maybe if we ever have Head-fi meets again.


----------



## JLoud

mat.1 said:


> How hot is the wa33 , I can not touch chasis because is so hot ?
> is it ok for this amp to be this hot ? My ambient temp is about 28 Celsius.


Mine gets pretty hot. I can touch it, but is definitely hot.


----------



## moemoney (Oct 21, 2020)

JLoud said:


> I had the Empyreans for about a month. So maybe 50 hours. Maybe I didn’t wait long enough. Will have to hear a nice “broken in” pair again. Maybe if we ever have Head-fi meets again.


My Empyreans took forever to break in well over 300+ hours, and I wanted to return them several times, but keep reading these pages about how well they sounded. Now that they are broken in I’m so happy that I keep them. There 2nd only to my HEKse


----------



## JLoud

I found the Empyrean and HEKse polar opposite in signature. The Empyrean must really change.


----------



## ThanatosVI

JLoud said:


> I found the Empyrean and HEKse polar opposite in signature. The Empyrean must really change.


Nah they really are quite different. Even though the Empyreans did change noteably with break in.
However it was already after 50h for me


----------



## Roasty (Oct 21, 2020)

koven said:


> The KR sounds great. I considered the Taka but wanted to match the KR power tubes.
> 
> In other news, I put the WA33 on a vibration platform. I measured w/ a phone app and it drops MMI to ~0.1. I unscientifically tested by tapping my foot on the ground next to it. The taps measure >1.0 without the platform so it certainly 'works' but hard to say if the sonic impact is negligible or material, too much hassle to A/B on such a heavy amp. At minimum I will succumb to the satisfaction from placebo and aesthetics.



Is it normal for the foot pods to be so.. tall?

This height looks better.


----------



## koven

Roasty said:


>



Nice, that must really _lift _the veil. 



Roasty said:


> Is it normal for the foot pods to be so.. tall?
> 
> This height looks better.



It depends on the pod's weight load spec, they have various levels so a lower weight spec would compress further I think.


----------



## audiofest2018

koven said:


> Nice, that must really _lift _the veil.
> 
> 
> 
> It depends on the pod's weight load spec, they have various levels so a lower weight spec would compress further I think.


What plate size  would you recommend?  Size 2?  Also any one has experience using Solid Tech of Disc Silence or similar isolation pluck?  My hesitation for using Solid Tech Disc Silence is the spring fatigue after long use.  Also when you change tube it seems like you will push the disc spring all the way down which may not be a good idea?  Townshend plate may suit better?  Any suggestions?  Thanks!


----------



## koven

audiofest2018 said:


> What plate size  would you recommend?  Size 2?  Also any one has experience using Solid Tech of Disc Silence or similar isolation pluck?  My hesitation for using Solid Tech Disc Silence is the spring fatigue after long use.  Also when you change tube it seems like you will push the disc spring all the way down which may not be a good idea?  Townshend plate may suit better?  Any suggestions?  Thanks!



Yes size 2 is good. Have not tried those Solid Tech but I like platforms over pucks personally. Feels more stable especially at this weight.


----------



## carboncopy

koven said:


> Nice, that must really _lift _the veil.
> 
> 
> 
> It depends on the pod's weight load spec, they have various levels so a lower weight spec would compress further I think.


 
I use Townshend under all my equipments. Really good. The springs work best when they are compressed. It's not otpimal if they are tall like this.


----------



## koven

carboncopy said:


> I use Townshend under all my equipments. Really good. The springs work best when they are compressed. It's not otpimal if they are tall like this.



30-70% is the recommended compression so too much is not good actually. That is why they offer different weight cells. The manual says you lose the isolation benefits if fully compressed. I like the taller look personally so less compression works for me.


----------



## JLoud

Can the WA33 be used to drive a single ended amp? Basically I would like to use the WA33 to drive a Schiit Aegir. Was going to get two and run them balanced, but may start with one run in stereo. Any thoughts? Can I just use adapters to go from WA33 XLR out to SE on the Aegir?


----------



## mat.1

Thanks to Mike ,
I got this tube quickly, hope it will so much better after 100 hours .


----------



## HiFiGuy528

JLoud said:


> Can the WA33 be used to drive a single ended amp? Basically I would like to use the WA33 to drive a Schiit Aegir. Was going to get two and run them balanced, but may start with one run in stereo. Any thoughts? Can I just use adapters to go from WA33 XLR out to SE on the Aegir?



Yes, WA33 have a preamp feature (PRE-OUT) for use with any power amplifier for speakers listening.

- WA33 (PRE mode) XLR output --->  Schiit Aegir XLR input 



mat.1 said:


> Thanks to Mike ,
> I got this tube quickly, hope it will so much better after 100 hours .



Look forward to your listening impressions.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Hi WA33 Owners,

Has anybody who lives in the UK or Europe bought a WA33 and if so has been direct from Woo Audio or through a UK or European Dealer (if there is one that sells Woo Audio products) ?   

I am trying to see the overall gross cost incl. shipping, customs duties etc. from US to the UK.


----------



## joseph69

Here is the list of Woo Audio Authorized Dealers


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

joseph69 said:


> Here is the list of Woo Audio Authorized Dealers


Thank you joseph69.   It's interesting though that the two Dealers in Europe are not in central Europe (Romania also hasn't been part of the EU for very long) and they don't have a UK Dealer especially when the UK is one of the big hifi enthusiasts country !   Also these two Dealer websites are in their home language and do not have an English website option !   I am surprised why Woo Audio hasn't a lot more Dealers (particularly high end HiFi Dealers) in Europe and also the UK listed on their website !


----------



## joseph69

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> Thank you joseph69.   It's interesting though that the two Dealers in Europe are not in central Europe (Romania also hasn't been part of the EU for very long) and they don't have a UK Dealer especially when the UK is one of the big hifi enthusiasts country !   Also these two Dealer websites are in their home language and do not have an English website option !   I am surprised why Woo Audio hasn't a lot more Dealers (particularly high end HiFi Dealers) in Europe and also the UK listed on their website !


You're welcome.
I knew none of the dealer where in the UK, but figured some where closer to you than Woo Audio is which is in Long Island City Queens, NY and it would be less expensive to ship to you.


----------



## ThanatosVI

joseph69 said:


> You're welcome.
> I knew none of the dealer where in the UK, but figured some where closer to you than Woo Audio is which is in Long Island City Queens, NY and it would be less expensive to ship to you.


Orders above 600 ship free at the moment


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

joseph69 said:


> You're welcome.
> I knew none of the dealer where in the UK, but figured some where closer to you than Woo Audio is which is in Long Island City Queens, NY and it would be less expensive to ship to you.


TBH the prices (in euros) these two Dealers give on Woo Audio products is insane compared to the US prices, especially when the US$ is close to the same value as the Euro although I am also aware of the rip off high European and UK import taxes ! .....Roll on Brexit.....Perhaps UK people will be able to enjoy customs free fees when UK have done an International Trade Deal with the US.....Or am I dreaming of such a thing !


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> TBH the prices (in euros) these two Dealers give on Woo Audio products is insane compared to the US prices, especially when the US$ is close to the same value as the Euro although I am also aware of the rip off high European and UK import taxes ! .....Roll on Brexit.....Perhaps UK people will be able to enjoy customs free fees when UK have done an International Trade Deal with the US.....Or am I dreaming of such a thing !


Sorry, forgot to also mention the even bigger rip off UK and European Value Added Tax (VAT) of 20% for UK and 17 to 25% for European Countries (depending on which country you live in) which is added to the US purchase price !


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> Sorry, forgot to also mention the even bigger rip off UK and European Value Added Tax (VAT) of 20% for UK and 17 to 25% for European Countries (depending on which country you live in) which is added to the US purchase price !


So with the customs duties (3 to 5%) and the huge VAT (17 to 25%) the price for US products imported into a European country or the UK can give a price hike of approx. 20 to 28% ! even with free shipping !


----------



## joseph69

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> Sorry, forgot to also mention the even bigger rip off UK and European Value Added Tax (VAT) of 20% for UK and 17 to 25% for European Countries (depending on which country you live in) which is added to the US purchase price !


It is ridiculous, for sure.


----------



## Steve160k (Nov 4, 2020)

Bonesy Jonesy - are you looking to source a quality valve amp from the UK? I have been in the same position looking for high end but specifically UK sourced.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Steve160k said:


> Bonesy Jonesy - are you looking to source a quality valve amp from the UK? I have been in the same position looking for high end but specifically UK sourced.


Steve160k, 
No I am only contemplating the WA33, hence taking an interest on this forum.


----------



## Steve160k

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> Steve160k,
> No I am only contemplating the WA33, hence taking an interest on this forum.


Okay no worries - i was looking as you are at various options. This amp is clearly high level and well regarded, but import costs etc made me look around nearer to home. I have now found a specialist valve audio manufacturer in the UK that I am working with on a custom build.


----------



## ufospls2

An option might be the Trafomatic Primavera, made in Serbia I think? The few impressions I've read were very positive. 

https://www.trafomaticaudio.com/products/primavera/?portfolioCats=15


----------



## HiFiGuy528

beautiful picture from new WA33 Elite customer.

"This thing sound phenomenal! Susvaras never sounded better. Please complement the person who created it!" 

We appreciate the kind feedback. 🙏🏻


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

ufospls2 said:


> An option might be the Trafomatic Primavera, made in Serbia I think? The few impressions I've read were very positive.
> 
> https://www.trafomaticaudio.com/products/primavera/?portfolioCats=15


I have been looking at this Amp too as like the WA33 is a sure nice looker and also with very positive reviews.  Serbia is also not in the EU though ! 
But the YouTube video of their factory and them building some of the parts has put me off for laying down over 12,000 euro's for a Headphone Amp !


----------



## JLoud

That is a pretty nice looking amp. It has a lot more going on appearance wise compared to The Woo. I can't believe how much VAT adds.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

JLoud said:


> That is a pretty nice looking amp. It has a lot more going on appearance wise compared to The Woo. I can't believe how much VAT adds.


Yes JLoud, the VAT and customs duties on top for non EU goods imported into the UK is crazy taxes !   
Maybe if the UK have an international deal with the USA, maybe (fingers crossed) the import duties will be zero although we will still have to pay VAT !


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

JLoud said:


> That is a pretty nice looking amp. It has a lot more going on appearance wise compared to The Woo. I can't believe how much VAT adds.


Yes the Trafomatic Primavera sure is a nice looking amp (or at least the photos of it shows a nice one !).   Would like to see a few in the flesh though ! 
As well as having a great power output (up to 9W) to drive any power hungry headphone it can also drive low impedance headphones too.   And another bonus is you can have it finished in any RAL number colour in matt gloss or soft touch finish.


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Sorry all Woo WA33 Owners for stealing some threads with talking about another Amp !


----------



## JLoud

Many WA33 owners have more than one amp. So seeing what else is out there is always interesting.


----------



## Clive101 (Nov 16, 2020)

Hello All,

I been a little silent for the past month or so as my new WA33 EE JPS has arrived 
and it was a bit of a saga.

Mainly a hum in the right hand channel which I managed to find was voltage being out of specification although initially had been set to the correct voltage.

In the UK the voltage can vary   230V -6% +10% (i.e. 216.2 V – 253.0 V) but the WA33 can only be set to 220 230 or 240 with the range being plus 9 volts for each setting. After burn in the right hand channel is quite within range.

As my voltage drops or gains the hum would come back so I had no alternative to purchase a PS Audio P15 .... now dead quite although I was advised to get the P3 (a lot cheaper).

Woo have indicated as the Elite version is wired internally different it is more likely to happen with the Elite which explains why I did not have the problem with the standard version the past year which I recently sold.

So if anyone has a hum check your voltage and this also applies to heat voltage setting will make a difference to the amount of heat the WA33 outputs.

I purchased https://www.amazon.co.uk/AC-Infinity-MULTIFAN-Receiver-Playstation-Black/dp/B00JLV4BWC very quite and Slow Medium High control switch and now my woo is a pleasant lukewarm / cool

All I can say is the E JPS version is like upgrading the Standard WA33 with high quality tubes give or take.

Now, I ask myself would I make the same choice to upgrade.... YES but given that I had to purchase a voltage regulator (for say the setting 230 volts which is 230 - 239) it is only just YES. Am I happy YES 

In America you may be blessed with good voltage so it may not be an issue but for us in Europe it is different. Which may answer why there are no dealers in the UK - Europe. I believe manufactures can sell direct products that do not meet EU standard regulations but a retailer cannot, this maybe or  maybe not the voltage situation, but for sure you can adjust the voltage but I guessing EU harmonisation does not allow for manual adjustment. 

Those wishing to import please do not be put off by VAT - Import Tax,  @HiFiGuy528 mentioned no sales tax USA this may offset the VAT element so always worth asking.

See enclosed the WA33 in the final resting place.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Clive101 said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I been a little silent for the past month or so as my new WA33 EE JPS has arrived
> and it was a bit of a saga.
> ...


I wonder if a PS Audio P3 would also decrease "tube noise" 

Do you have any experience with that?


----------



## Clive101

ThanatosVI said:


> I wonder if a PS Audio P3 would also decrease "tube noise"
> 
> Do you have any experience with that?


Please excuse me I am new to Tubes.
The only noise (external), I have is transformer hum. If you put your ear to the casing of the Woo Wa33 you can hear the hum, otherwise dead silent.
Audio, in the headphones all I hear is beautiful music, no hum, but I have all ways had a power supply either Tourus (highly recommend) or the P15 and soon I will post a shoot out as I have both.
Do you mean noise from the tubes externally? If so dead silent but as I say only ever used with a power supply.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Clive101 said:


> Please excuse me I am new to Tubes.
> The only noise (external), I have is transformer hum. If you put your ear to the casing of the Woo Wa33 you can hear the hum, otherwise dead silent.
> Audio, in the headphones all I hear is beautiful music, no hum, but I have all ways had a power supply either Tourus (highly recommend) or the P15 and soon I will post a shoot out as I have both.
> Do you mean noise from the tubes externally? If so dead silent but as I say only ever used with a power supply.


Some tube amps are sensitive to "noisy" tubes.
That results usually in a hum inside the headphone, and I wondered if this would be affected by a power regenerator.


----------



## Clive101 (Nov 16, 2020)

No dead silent, I don't think a power regenerator or a Torus (different tech) would add any humming in the headphones what ever tube was used...but may help reduce? When I had the demo of the Woo Wa33 SE I was surprised a extension cable was used (DIY wind up version) pluged into the mains, sounded stellar to me.
In my experience I would defently recommend power treatment, but as always YMMV.
Problem is I may not have noisy tubes.

EDIT Voltage regulation may help ?


----------



## Roasty

the eagle... has landed.....


----------



## ThanatosVI

Roasty said:


> the eagle... has landed.....


Enjoy!
An absolutely magnificent amp


----------



## Roasty

I am so stoked. Finally have my end game amp. 

It is a heavy one! Trolley is highly recommended to save your back. 





Really amazing build. Super solid piece! Came in a few boxes (amplifier, stock tubes, upgrade tubes). I have the JPS edition with the upgrade KR tube set. Was surprised to find out they also include the stock tubes. 





Sounds great out of the box. Am using the upgrade tube set. Will be using these tubes for a while, before swapping out the KR 274b for my Takatsuki 274b rectifier. 

Have not tried it with the abyss TC Phi yet, but so far, it's the best sound I've gotten from the Susvara yet. The whole top end is so well controlled. It really extends down low too, and there is so much more meat to the mids. Very very balanced sound from the Susvara with this amp. It really puts my WA22 in its place.. 

Those of you using the WA33 with the susvara, what are your knob settings at? For impedance and gain.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Roasty said:


> I am so stoked. Finally have my end game amp.
> 
> It is a heavy one! Trolley is highly recommended to save your back.
> 
> ...


Such a beautiful amp in black. 
Enjoy!

Paired with the Wavelight this is truly a dream setup


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

Roasty said:


> I am so stoked. Finally have my end game amp.
> 
> It is a heavy one! Trolley is highly recommended to save your back.
> 
> ...


Stunning and beautiful photo.   Woo Audio should use this in their marketing brochures (of course with your permission !).
Enjoy Roasty


----------



## Bonesy Jonesy

I am currently looking at a number of TOTL Headphone Amps including the WA33 along with the Trafomatic Audio Primavera.   Looking at photos of both, I thought the Primavera takes the look stakes, but seeing the recent photo from Roasty of the WA33, my thoughts may not be correct !


----------



## ThanatosVI

Bonesy Jonesy said:


> I am currently looking at a number of TOTL Headphone Amps including the WA33 along with the Trafomatic Audio Primavera.   Looking at photos of both, I thought the Primavera takes the look stakes, but seeing the recent photo from Roasty of the WA33, my thoughts may not be correct !


Imo the Wa33 is one of the nicest tube amps to Look at.

Too bad that it is a luxury product even among luxury products.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Roasty said:


> I am so stoked. Finally have my end game amp.
> 
> It is a heavy one! Trolley is highly recommended to save your back.
> 
> ...


Congrats on the WA33!  Welcome to the team 

I use high impedance and high gain for both the Susvaras and TCs


----------



## JLoud

Roasty said:


> I am so stoked. Finally have my end game amp.
> 
> It is a heavy one! Trolley is highly recommended to save your back.
> 
> ...


I use High Level and Low Impedance with my TC. I used the same settings with the HE6se as well. Plenty of power, but preference may affect which impedance setting you use.


----------



## koven

Roasty said:


> I am so stoked. Finally have my end game amp.
> 
> It is a heavy one! Trolley is highly recommended to save your back.
> 
> ...



Nice, it should impress further as the tubes burn in. I'd also say the power cable is worth an upgrade, if you haven't already. I switched the stock cord out for an AQ Tornado which was a nice improvement.


----------



## Roasty

ThanatosVI said:


> Such a beautiful amp in black.
> Enjoy!
> 
> Paired with the Wavelight this is truly a dream setup



Thanks man! Yes, and hopefully the wavelight streamer will complete the stack soon! 




Bonesy Jonesy said:


> Stunning and beautiful photo.   Woo Audio should use this in their marketing brochures (of course with your permission !).
> Enjoy Roasty





Bonesy Jonesy said:


> I am currently looking at a number of TOTL Headphone Amps including the WA33 along with the Trafomatic Audio Primavera.   Looking at photos of both, I thought the Primavera takes the look stakes, but seeing the recent photo from Roasty of the WA33, my thoughts may not be correct !



Thanks! imo the wa33 was an easy choice in terms of aesthetics. Relatively simple looks, but at the same time so menacing, with a lot of presence. 




Ciggavelli said:


> Congrats on the WA33!  Welcome to the team
> 
> I use high impedance and high gain for both the Susvaras and TCs





JLoud said:


> I use High Level and Low Impedance with my TC. I used the same settings with the HE6se as well. Plenty of power, but preference may affect which impedance setting you use.



Cheers guys. Am trying the wa33 with the TC Phi now, and I am getting too much volume with high gain. Perhaps due to the wavelight pairing and its xlr output voltage? I am using low gain now, with low impedance; setting on high impedance, for the same position on the volume knob, I'm getting a bit too much treble before the mids and bass kick in. 




koven said:


> Nice, it should impress further as the tubes burn in. I'd also say the power cable is worth an upgrade, if you haven't already. I switched the stock cord out for an AQ Tornado which was a nice improvement.



Can't wait for the unit and tubes to settle in. Sounds good already, so will be interesting to see how it evolves. Yep, am using the TWL Obsession power cord with the wa33, from an AQ Niagara 1200. Dead silent, zero hum.


----------



## JLoud

I use the XLR output from the Yggdrasil. 4 volts I believe. I run about 10:30 to 12 o’clock on the volume pot. I have the RK50 volume pot. What is the output voltage of your DAC?


----------



## Roasty

JLoud said:


> I use the XLR output from the Yggdrasil. 4 volts I believe. I run about 10:30 to 12 o’clock on the volume pot. I have the RK50 volume pot. What is the output voltage of your DAC?



It is 5.8Vrms for XLR on the spec sheet for the Wavelight.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I use my DAVE in DAC mode, which is -3db (whatever that means).  I've never had a problem with the sound with that.  I think you may need to reduce the volume of your DAC or put it in DAC mode (if it exists on your DAC that is).  It sound like maybe your DAC preamp is overdriving the WA33


----------



## Roasty

Ciggavelli said:


> I use my DAVE in DAC mode, which is -3db (whatever that means).  I've never had a problem with the sound with that.  I think you may need to reduce the volume of your DAC or put it in DAC mode (if it exists on your DAC that is).  It sound like maybe your DAC preamp is overdriving the WA33



Yep you're right. I do reduce the volume on the dac to about 80-85, to allow more control with the amplifier knob. 

Do you guys find the WA33 takes a fair bit of time to warm up and "get ready" for music?


----------



## JLoud

I turn mine on about 10-15 minutes before I plan to use it. I’ve read it takes about 20 minutes to fully warm up. Always with headphones plugged in and volume down.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I let mine warm up for like 5 minutes


----------



## Roasty (Nov 20, 2020)

Anyone know which reputable site has quad rca 2a3? Have been searching online and there is quite a price variation. Ebay has matched pairs but they seem rather overpriced.

Or is the EML 300b 2.5v a better option?

*edit
Nevermind. Ordered EML 300b 2.5v from tubesUSA


----------



## MrCypruz

Roasty said:


> Ordered EML 300b 2.5v from tubesUSA


Great choice. Which ones did you order? Solid or Mesh Plates? If the latter, You’ll be amazed by what those tubes do after the 300hrs burn-in period...or at least I hope you like them as much as I do. After experiencing those, I’m certain that  I’m not going back to 2A3 tubes on my WA33 - I’ll stick to 300B tubes forever!  Planning to order a backup quad set of the 300B 2.5v to keep in storage before the prices sky rocket!


----------



## Roasty

MrCypruz said:


> Great choice. Which ones did you order? Solid or Mesh Plates? If the latter, You’ll be amazed by what those tubes do after the 300hrs burn-in period...or at least I hope you like them as much as I do. After experiencing those, I’m certain that  I’m not going back to 2A3 tubes on my WA33 - I’ll stick to 300B tubes forever!  Planning to order a backup quad set of the 300B 2.5v to keep in storage before the prices sky rocket!



I ordered the solid ones, after reading some posts on another headphone forum. Very scant information on these tubes! 

Should I have gone with mesh? I can still change the order.


----------



## MrCypruz

Roasty said:


> Very scant information on these tubes!


I agree man, struggled to find info on them and decided to go with Mesh after experiencing their 2A3 solid plates.




Roasty said:


> Should I have gone with mesh? I can still change the order.


You may like the solid plates more if you’re looking for impact and bass slam - the solid plates are all about a powerful sound. The Mesh plates are all about refinement, expanded sound stage, heavenly midrange and amazingly controlled top end! These days I find myself smiling at the WA33 in disbelief of how good it sounds and wondering if it can get any better than what I’ve achieved so far! The 300B 2.5v Mesh plates (after 300hrs) made me stop the chase for improvements on my rig and allowed me to simply get lost in the music for endless hours.
@Bonddam has the solid plates, he may chime in the describe how he feels about those.


----------



## MrCypruz

To add to my previous post, the Mesh Plates tubes may make the Susvaras sound a bit slow and soft when compared the solid plates counterpart which makes them more impactful and alive. This is only noticeable after direct A/B testing... @Bonddam had the 2A3 Mesh Plates and sold them before they were even burned in because he found them “boring” for a bass head that he his and the music genre that he listens to the most (EDM).

So think of solid plates offerings from EML as powerful, dynamic, impactful tubes and Meshplates as refined and more “hi-fi” sounding.


----------



## Roasty (Nov 21, 2020)

@MrCypruz thanks for all the information! I'm sure other wa33 owners will be grateful for that input too!

I guess I will stick with the solid plates then. Susvara "impactful and alive"; will be looking forward to that!

I've only had the wa33 for a few days so still getting used to the KR tubes sound. Will be swapping out the KR 274b for a Tak274b and hope there will be another improvement there.


----------



## MrCypruz

Roasty said:


> @MrCypruz thanks for all the information! I'm sure other wa33 owners will be grateful for that input too!
> 
> I guess I will stick with the solid plates then. Susvara "impactful and alive"; will be looking forward to that!
> 
> I've only had the wa33 for a few days so still getting used to the KR tubes sound. Will be swapping out the KR 274b for a Tak274b and hope there will be another improvement there.


The beauty of the 300B 2.5v tubes is that you get the glamorous 300B sound known for its lushness and involving presentation on a 2A3 amp like the WA33. As I said, the 300B is a one way road for me!


----------



## MrCypruz

Roasty said:


> Tak274b


Awesome rectifier. I’ve that one and keep switching between that and the EML 274B.

The KR2A3HP are really close to the EML 2A3 Solid Plates, clean and dynamic, more neutral than lush.

I’ve to say that tube rolling on the WA33 is a rather expensive affair, not easy for the wallet at all and I hate it!!!


----------



## Roasty

MrCypruz said:


> I’ve to say that tube rolling on the WA33 is a rather expensive affair, not easy for the wallet at all and I hate it!!!



Indeed! Thankfully not many options for driver tubes (i think..). I've already got a stash of rectifiers from my old amp which I can use with the wa33. 

I have the EML 5u4g and quite like it, except sometimes I feel the highs could be smoother and less gritty. I have the psvane we 274b replica and it is one of my best sounding tubes. Tak274b still takes the cake though!


----------



## JLoud

I didn’t realize you could use 300b tubes on the WA33. They aren’t listed in the compatibility chart on Woo.


----------



## JLoud

Just went to EML website, interesting tube. I am running EML tubes in my WA33 now. Curious to hear everyones opinions on these.


----------



## joseph69

JLoud said:


> Just went to EML website, interesting tube. I am running EML tubes in my WA33 now. Curious to hear everyones opinions on these.


Also, your EML 2A3's are solid plates which were recommended by Jack Woo before making the purchase.


----------



## Roasty (Nov 22, 2020)

Have just been informed that EML no longer produces the solid plate version of 300b 2.5v.

Im to choose between 300b 2.5v mesh plates and 2a3 solid plates..


*edit
Went with the 300b 2.5v mesh. 

George from tubesUSA said EML stopped producing the solid plates as the mesh version can now dissipate the same power as the solid plate (I have no idea what that means..).


----------



## Bonddam

Well I put my WA33 for sale.


----------



## Bonddam

Anyone interested in PSvane 2A3? Mine that have 10hrs I’m selling.


----------



## pippen99

For months I would Let the WA33 warm up for about 15 minutes before listening.  This was with headphone plugged in and no input.  Still the amp did not sound ready fo at least another 15 minutes.  I then tried turning the amp on and let it stabilize for 1-2 minutes and then ran a random playlist for 15 minutes.  This made the amp ready to be its best.  Having some input at moderate volume seems to work for my ears.


----------



## Bonddam

What tubes are you using?


----------



## ThanatosVI

Bonddam said:


> Well I put my WA33 for sale.


Already sold, that was quick.

What is the reason for the sale?
Elite upgrade?


----------



## Bonddam

No I switched to Wells Audio I’m more into my Reference Milo sound. Find the romantic quality boring for my edm.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Bonddam said:


> No I switched to Wells Audio I’m more into my Reference Milo sound. Find the romantic quality boring for my edm.


Interesting, especially since the milo is so much more affordable. 

Guess I made a great choice with my Cayin Ha-6a, which also shines with EDM


----------



## pippen99

Received Bonddam's EML 300B 2.5v today.  Just put a few minutes on them but sound good.  I will probably keep the EML 2A3 Mesh as backup.  I will see if there is any interest in the stock EH 2A3 Gold.


----------



## MrCypruz

pippen99 said:


> I will probably keep the EML 2A3 Mesh as backup.


That would be my advice as those 300B 2.5V are solid plates...you’ll have different flavors for different moods.


----------



## innocentblood

having lived with my WA33 for more than a year now, I think I am finally ready to upgrade my tubes. I recently got the Abyss Phi TC and am wondering if it is possible to buy the tubes that are currently used on the JPS Labs Edition?


----------



## MrCypruz

innocentblood said:


> having lived with my WA33 for more than a year now, I think I am finally ready to upgrade my tubes. I recently got the Abyss Phi TC and am wondering if it is possible to buy the tubes that are currently used on the JPS Labs Edition?



https://wooaudio.com/amplifiers/wa33

Scroll down to see the upgraded tubes. The ones that come on the JPS Edition are the KR2A3HP power tubes, KR274B rectifier and EH 6C45Pi driver tubes. All of them will set you back $3k+...ouuucchhhh!!!!!! Tube rolling on the WA33 is not a fun endeavor!!!


----------



## Bonddam

MrCypruz said:


> https://wooaudio.com/amplifiers/wa33
> 
> Scroll down to see the upgraded tubes. The ones that come on the JPS Edition are the KR2A3HP power tubes, KR274B rectifier and EH 6C45Pi driver tubes. All of them will set you back $3k+...ouuucchhhh!!!!!! Tube rolling on the WA33 is not a fun endeavor!!!


For less you can get EML 300b 2.5 Takasuki 274b and eh gold pins looking at around $2,800 much better value for an amazing sound.


----------



## JLoud

How would you compare the 300b 2.5 to the EML 2a3? I love the Takatsuki 274b.


----------



## Bonddam

JLoud said:


> How would you compare the 300b 2.5 to the EML 2a3? I love the Takatsuki 274b.


Have no idea. All I know is 300b 2.5 sounds amazing. I remember a lot of depth and 3D sound.


----------



## audiofest2018

I currently own both EML 2A3 and 300B 2.5V mesh tubes.  Have tried them both on my WA33 unit and love them for their own unique sound signature.  In my personal opinion I feel like 300B has more energy in the mid and bottom of the frequency while 2A3 overall presentation is more balance and musical.  It may depends on what type of music you enjoy in order to find what best fit for you.  Just my 2 cents!


----------



## MrCypruz

Bonddam said:


> For less you can get EML 300b 2.5 Takasuki 274b and eh gold pins looking at around $2,800 much better value for an amazing sound.


I agree 100% and that’s exactly what I did.


----------



## pippen99

I have only had the 300B for a few hours.  My first impression is that the 300B are tighter and a little punchier on the bottom end.  I tried a few tracks that with the 2A3 are borderline shrill on the top end.  With the 300B there was no hint of shrillness.  I am not sure if this is because they are a little rolled off are again just tighter.  I need more time to assess the mids.


----------



## Bonddam

I’m back baby it arrives brand new I got moved head because I’m so bad ass bitches💪


----------



## ThanatosVI

Bonddam said:


> I’m back baby it arrives brand new I got moved head because I’m so bad ass bitches💪


You sold your WA33 and then rebought one?


----------



## Bonddam

Just joking.........🤪no I’m not???


----------



## Bonddam

Just jagging a bit........ Going to the insane asylum.


----------



## mat.1

What is The recommendation power Cord for WA 33 ? Anyone using shunyata ?


----------



## pippen99

Tara Labs Air Reference for me.


----------



## Bonddam

Wire World silver electra 7 and electra 7 is what I'm using.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I use a relatively cheap Danacables power cord.  I also have an Isotek Sigmas power conditioner, which made a big difference. No buzzing sounds on the amp at all (which I had with no power conditioner)


----------



## Roasty

Finally received my new tubes, about a month after placing my order. Took quite some time to reach me from Germany. 

Came nicely packed. No sound of glass rattling in the box.. Thankfully. 













Really big tubes! My first time with 300b..



Comparison with the KR 2a3 tubes. 




One tube in the amp for comparison shot.




And final glamour shot.. After this I think I should be done with tubes for this amp. (famous last words..). 





Amp has just been turned on. Going to wait a while, have a cup of coffee first.. Savour the moment.


----------



## audiofest2018

Roasty said:


> Finally received my new tubes, about a month after placing my order. Took quite some time to reach me from Germany.
> 
> Came nicely packed. No sound of glass rattling in the box.. Thankfully.
> 
> ...



>And final glamour shot.. After this I think I should be done with tubes for this amp. (famous last words..).

I head about this ALL THE TIME!  LOL...   Enjoy!
I happened to have the identical tube setup on my WA33 for now.   Please let us know your impression on this with your headphone lineup.

Cheers!


----------



## ThanatosVI

Roasty said:


> Finally received my new tubes, about a month after placing my order. Took quite some time to reach me from Germany.
> 
> Came nicely packed. No sound of glass rattling in the box.. Thankfully.
> 
> ...


Absolutely beautiful.


----------



## pippen99

My setup also though I have the Tak 274B.


----------



## mat.1

Roasty said:


> Finally received my new tubes, about a month after placing my order. Took quite some time to reach me from Germany.
> 
> Came nicely packed. No sound of glass rattling in the box.. Thankfully.
> 
> ...


where did you buy it ? Singapore ? Thx.


----------



## Roasty

audiofest2018 said:


> >And final glamour shot.. After this I think I should be done with tubes for this amp. (famous last words..).
> 
> I head about this ALL THE TIME!  LOL...   Enjoy!
> I happened to have the identical tube setup on my WA33 for now.   Please let us know your impression on this with your headphone lineup.
> ...



Lol yes I tell that to myself several times a week.. 

When you turn on your amp, do you hear a really short hiss kinda sound from the tubes? Soft hiss then goes away immediately. 



mat.1 said:


> where did you buy it ? Singapore ? Thx.



I ordered it from George at tubesusa.


----------



## pippen99

I like to think of it as the sound of a phaser powering up .  I believe the sound is internal rather than from the tubes.  I thought the sound was a little louder and longer with the 2A3s vs the 300B 2.5s.


----------



## Roasty

pippen99 said:


> I like to think of it as the sound of a phaser powering up .  I believe the sound is internal rather than from the tubes.  I thought the sound was a little louder and longer with the 2A3s vs the 300B 2.5s.



Oh that's odd. I never heard it with the 2a3 tubes. Heard it for the first time with the 300b 2.5v yesterday. 

So far, these are really nice tubes! Am really enjoying them with all my headphones, TC especially for some reason.


----------



## audiofest2018

Roasty said:


> Lol yes I tell that to myself several times a week..
> 
> When you turn on your amp, do you hear a really short hiss kinda sound from the tubes? Soft hiss then goes away immediately.
> 
> ...


@Roasty I usually wait 2 to 3 minutes before I connect my headphone to WA33 after the unit is fully on.  Maybe that explains why I don't hear the sound you described.


----------



## audiofest2018

pippen99 said:


> I like to think of it as the sound of a phaser powering up .  I believe the sound is internal rather than from the tubes.  I thought the sound was a little louder and longer with the 2A3s vs the 300B 2.5s.


Interesting...  When I use Emission Lab 2A3 and 300B 2.5V tubes with my Utopia which is a sensitive headphone I can always hear some noises  but much less when uses KR 2A3 tubes.  I do not hear any noises though when use TC or Susvara.


----------



## MrCypruz

audiofest2018 said:


> @Roasty I usually wait 2 to 3 minutes before I connect my headphone to WA33 after the unit is fully on.  Maybe that explains why I don't hear the sound you described.


That’s not a good practice according to the WA33 manual. You shouldn’t turn your amp ON without the headphones connected, the transformer needs to have a load when being powered up.


----------



## audiofest2018

MrCypruz said:


> That’s not a good practice according to the WA33 manual. You shouldn’t turn your amp ON without the headphones connected, the transformer needs to have a load when being powered up.


@MrCypruz Thanks you for letting me know!  I alway thought that I need to wait for amp to warm up before I connect the headphone hone on.  How about the sequence for turning off amp?


----------



## MrCypruz

audiofest2018 said:


> @MrCypruz Thanks you for letting me know!  I alway thought that I need to wait for amp to warm up before I connect the headphone hone on.  How about the sequence for turning off amp?


Lower the volume to zero, turn off the amp with headphones connected.
Also, always turn the volume down when switching headphones.


----------



## pippen99

I got a personal email from Mike at Woo taking me to task for powering up without a headphone hooked up.  I have a sacrificial $15 pair of headphones to use for this purpose.  I can't remember if the noise was evident with the stock tubes as I installed the EMLs shortly after receipt of the amp.  The noise we are referring to is the external sizzling noise on intial startup.


----------



## Roasty

pippen99 said:


> I got a personal email from Mike at Woo taking me to task for powering up without a headphone hooked up.  I have a sacrificial $15 pair of headphones to use for this purpose.  I can't remember if the noise was evident with the stock tubes as I installed the EMLs shortly after receipt of the amp.  The noise we are referring to is the external sizzling noise on intial startup.



Yea it sounds external like from the tubes. Not thru the headphones. I guess then, it is a normal occurrence with these tubes.


----------



## Bonddam

Ordered from TubeUSA in November. He said the 300B where in transit. I am currently using PSVANE AMCE which sound really good. Woo told me I won't have my gold pins till January.


----------



## Roasty

Early impressions is the 300b 2.5v have really good mids. and crisp highs but maybe a little edgy up top. Bass is a bit thicker but less punch and not as tight as KR 2a3; a little disappointed here but anyways only had these tubes running for a few hours so hope they will improve. Very clean dark background with lots of space. Zero hum with no music playing.


----------



## pippen99

I got the EML 2A3 as a lower cost alternative to the KR 2A3.  Then when quite a few people began to try the 300B a certain gentleman on here gave me his at a very good price.  With the two sets of EMLs on hand I can't see the KRs in my future unless someone comes pretty close to paying me to take them.  I got the 2A3 from Germany and considered the KR from Germany but there was some buzz that the USA  KR HPs were different from the Euro HPs and I backed off.


----------



## audiofest2018

Roasty said:


> Yea it sounds external like from the tubes. Not thru the headphones. I guess then, it is a normal occurrence with these tubes.


A ha!  Sorry for not knowing what you are referring to earlier. I hear that sizzling sound all the time when starts up the unit before it is fully on.  I alway thought it is normal as machine is firing up!


----------



## Bonddam

audiofest2018 said:


> A ha!  Sorry for not knowing what you are referring to earlier. I hear that sizzling sound all the time when starts up the unit before it is fully on.  I alway thought it is normal as machine is firing up!



Did you follow the tube setup for the first 3 weeks of only listening for 3 hours tops then letting them cool for an hour or 2?


----------



## audiofest2018

Bonddam said:


> Did you follow the tube setup for the first 3 weeks of only listening for 3 hours tops then letting them cool for an hour or 2?


Are you referring to just Emission Lab tubes?  Actually my listening hours usually doesn’t last more than a hour and half.  So it is not a problem for me to follow the instruction.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Bonddam said:


> Did you follow the tube setup for the first 3 weeks of only listening for 3 hours tops then letting them cool for an hour or 2?


Is this something one should do in general with tubes or only with those specific ones?


----------



## Bonddam

ThanatosVI said:


> Is this something one should do in general with tubes or only with those specific ones?


EML is only tube manufacture that has given these instructions for their tubes. I started on all my tubes no more then three hours. A lot of old NOS tubes where not built mainly for audio. So they had better materials that today are not allowed to be used because environmental laws.


----------



## Roasty

From EML website:

"
Some background: These tubes are burned-in initially, because factory testing can only be done after the tube data has become stabile, and after a tube has developed strong emission. However emission of the cathode is still not homogenous at this moment. After full burn in, emission is build by many small islands, overlapping each other. Though initially, these islands do not fully overlap. This slow development of a homogenous layer, is the final burn in process. The tube should be give time for this, and not stressed into it. This is why we advise to do the burn-in process under normal use conditions. Many short use periods have a better result than few long periods. Switch off the amplifier after each use, and in the beginning not use the tubes longer than 4 hours at one time. Many short use periods have a better result than few long periods. The tubes need the „cold“ periods in between for best formatting. Use different loudness levels from the beginning, and increase the maximum loudness gradually.

If tubes with very little use were switched off longer than 18 months, it may be necessary to repeat the burn in. So tubes that were not used for some years, may sound unpleasant, and simply need a new burn in."


----------



## Roasty

Oh yes just a heads up. For whoever is purchasing EML tubes, don't forget to register for the warranty online, as it goes up to 5 years (from the 1 yr/2000hrs if you don't do online registration).


----------



## joseph69

Just ordered my EML 2A3-S this morning from George at TubesUSA so I should have them by the end of the week sometime.


----------



## joseph69

EDIT:
I just emailed with George and I'll actually have the tubes by tomorrow.


----------



## Bonddam

Lucky you I’m not bothering George to find out about my


----------



## Bonddam

I never received confirmation on my last set of 2A3 and 300b tubes. Do they send out an email saying you’re covered.


----------



## joseph69

I just got lucky because from reading the thread I think all of the 2.5v 300B's are on back order.


----------



## joseph69

Bonddam said:


> I never received confirmation on my last set of 2A3 and 300b tubes. Do they send out an email saying you’re covered.


Yes, I received an email confirmation from George letting me know they'll be arriving tomorrow. 
Keep in mind that I ordered the 2A3-S not the 2A3-M which may be out of stock as well? Which 2A3 did you order?


----------



## Bonddam

joseph69 said:


> Yes, I received an email confirmation from George letting me know they'll be arriving tomorrow.
> Keep in mind that I ordered the 2A3-S not the 2A3-M which may be out of stock as well? Which 2A3 did you order?


No I ordered 300b 2.5 mesh. I would have gotten the solid plate but they stopped producing that version. So I’m hoping they sound similar or better. Was told dissipation is the same but don’t know how that relates to the type of sound signature.


----------



## Roasty

First day with 300b 2.5v was OK, but on second day started getting a faint hum/static sound from one channel. 

Varied in intensity, more audible with sensitive headphones (grado, Stellia, Utopia). Narrowed it down to one tube (static goes to opposite channel when tube position is swapped). 

The static/buzz/hum gets less intense and almost inaudible after the amp has been on for about 1 to 1.5hrs. Have emailed George and Jac (jacmusic, who shipped out the tubes to me) and Jac suggests to use the tubes for a few more weeks and then report back in.


----------



## audiofest2018

Roasty said:


> First day with 300b 2.5v was OK, but on second day started getting a faint hum/static sound from one channel.
> 
> Varied in intensity, more audible with sensitive headphones (grado, Stellia, Utopia). Narrowed it down to one tube (static goes to opposite channel when tube position is swapped).
> 
> The static/buzz/hum gets less intense and almost inaudible after the amp has been on for about 1 to 1.5hrs. Have emailed George and Jac (jacmusic, who shipped out the tubes to me) and Jac suggests to use the tubes for a few more weeks and then report back in.


Can you hear the hum when uses Susvara or TC?  Also what is your WA33 setting when uses sensitivity headphones?  In my cases I do have hum noise for Utopia but noise drops significantly with LOW setting for both gain and impedance.  When I use TC or Susvara I can't hear the hum noise.


----------



## Roasty

audiofest2018 said:


> Can you hear the hum when uses Susvara or TC?  Also what is your WA33 setting when uses sensitivity headphones?  In my cases I do have hum noise for Utopia but noise drops significantly with LOW setting for both gain and impedance.  When I use TC or Susvara I can't hear the hum noise.



I'm on low gain low impedance for all my headphones. I don't hear it with Susvara or TC. 

Jac thinks it may be a gain issue and one or a pair of tubes which may still within spec but just having a bit more noise than the others. So the recommendation is to just use amp as per normal and see how it is after 4 weeks. 

When music is playing I can't hear the hum/static/buzz, except when switching between tracks and on very very quiet passages in certain songs. Occasionally it does get a littler louder and audible on soft vocal jazz for example.


----------



## Roasty

audiofest2018 said:


> Can you hear the hum when uses Susvara or TC?  Also what is your WA33 setting when uses sensitivity headphones?  In my cases I do have hum noise for Utopia but noise drops significantly with LOW setting for both gain and impedance.  When I use TC or Susvara I can't hear the hum noise.



Actually I just tested it, and the intensity of the hum/static doesn't change with the impedance/gain switch setting.


----------



## koven

That seems like an unacceptable annoyance, should ask for a replacement pair to test for now. Maybe you're more patient than I but what is the relevance of 4 weeks? Is that their return window by chance? Seems like it'd be more credible if they said give it 100 hours or something.


----------



## Roasty

koven said:


> That seems like an unacceptable annoyance, should ask for a replacement pair to test for now. Maybe you're more patient than I but what is the relevance of 4 weeks? Is that their return window by chance? Seems like it'd be more credible if they said give it 100 hours or something.



I think it's probably to give the tubes a chance to settle. As per my earlier post, it does go to an almost inaudible level after about 1.5 hrs. This morning I managed to time and replicate it, and it was "almost" dead silent with the Stellia (Stellia seems more sensitive than Utopia). 

I do hope it eventually goes away completely from the get go, otherwise its a minor annoyance. Jac at jacmusic seems like a nice guy and I'm pretty sure he would be willing to help me out at the end of the 4 weeks, should I require something to be done.


----------



## koven

Hope it works out for ya. Did you not like the KR tubes it came with? I use KR but I noticed yours have a black base whereas mine is white, not sure if there is any difference in sound. I haven't found them lacking in any aspect personally. I may try a set of EMLs some day though.


----------



## Roasty

koven said:


> Hope it works out for ya. Did you not like the KR tubes it came with? I use KR but I noticed yours have a black base whereas mine is white, not sure if there is any difference in sound. I haven't found them lacking in any aspect personally. I may try a set of EMLs some day though.



I actually did like the KR tubes. I guess the reason I bought the 300b 2.5v tubes was because of "the itch" and just general curiosity. Maybe placebo or expectation bias/poor audio memory, but I thought the 300b 2.5v tubes sounded "more and bigger" in every aspect.


----------



## joseph69

Received my EML 2A3-S's yesterday afternoon so now I'm all set with upgraded tubes. Special thanks to George at TubesUSA for his excellent service, communication and immediate shipping. Did some low level listening with my Utopia last night and right out of the box the EML's sound just fantastic.


----------



## JLoud

I had same setup for a while. WA33 and GSX mk2. Sold the GSX to help fund a BHSE. Very nice amp combo.


----------



## Roasty

added a Symposium Segue Iso Stealth platform for looks.. Nicely built and really solid piece. Aside from the 4 corner footers which are attached to the platform, they include an extra 5th footer which you can place wherever, depending on where most of the component weight is. I quite like that, as I placed my wa33 towards the front of the platform, to allow some space for a furutech booster to mount on the platform behind the amp. 

Only issue I have with it is that the spring footers, well, are springs. And the spring "end" is exposed ie sharp edge, which can scratch the surface it is placed on. So I stuck on two layers of matte black tape on the spring ends to try and blunt it. 

Also, just to update on the 300b 2.5v tubes.. I followed the run in regimen as advised by EML and it worked a treat. I think the tubes just needed some settling in. It's near complete black quietness without music now, with sensitive headphones like the grado, Stellia, Utopia. Huge sigh of relief. No more buzzing hum or static. No crackles and pops.


----------



## Bonddam

Does anyone run NOS 2A3 on WA33?


----------



## timeslip

Anyone try clarus crimson xlr ICs between Dave and wa33?  Just bought a wa33 and trying to decide on an IC. I’ve been using moon audio for everything the last few years and potentially may have a decent deal on a clarus 1m


----------



## moemoney

timeslip said:


> Anyone try clarus crimson xlr ICs between Dave and wa33?  Just bought a wa33 and trying to decide on an IC. I’ve been using moon audio for everything the last few years and potentially may have a decent deal on a clarus 1m


if it ain’t broke.....


----------



## Lucky87

WA33 EE incoming along with Susvara’s


----------



## Darkliner

timeslip said:


> Anyone try clarus crimson xlr ICs between Dave and wa33?  Just bought a wa33 and trying to decide on an IC. I’ve been using moon audio for everything the last few years and potentially may have a decent deal on a clarus 1m



Try an rca IC between Dave and wa33, you might like it over the xlr, atleast in my experience.


----------



## SuperBurrito

Lucky87 said:


> WA33 EE incoming along with Susvara’s


Baller move - Love it!  I definitely look forward to your impressions.


----------



## JLoud

WA33 EE and Susvara, that is living by the mantra "Go big or go home." I tip my hat my friend.


----------



## Lucky87

SuperBurrito said:


> Baller move - Love it!  I definitely look forward to your impressions.


Thanks I am really looking forward to it myself and how it compares my current and passed setups.. 



JLoud said:


> WA33 EE and Susvara, that is living by the mantra "Go big or go home." I tip my hat my friend.


I was suppose to get the Sasvara's today but I got a message last night after midnight saying delayed due "Train Derailment"  🚂  by 2 days now. But it says this Friday the 29th.


----------



## JLoud

Lucky87 said:


> I was suppose to get the Sasvara's today but I got a message last night after midnight saying delayed due "Train Derailment"


That's a new one. Right up there with "The dog ate my homework" and "Abducted by space aliens." And I thought 2021 couldn't be as strange as 2020.


----------



## Roasty (Jan 27, 2021)

@pippen99
@audiofest2018

I'm thinking of trying a quad EML 2a3 mesh.
are you guys preferring the EML 300b 2.5v over the EML 2a3 mesh?

On the EML website there is a short note which says:

*Where 2A3-Mesh is not advised:*

Mesh tubes used as output tubes in a separate pre amplifier, or used in a head phone amplifier, may occasionally cause a spurious noise. Though this is rare, it is not a tube issue when it happens. Otherwise we recommend the EML solid plate tubes.

Do you ever get that "spurious noise" (whatever it may be...) when using eml 2a3 mesh with the wa33?


----------



## audiofest2018

Roasty said:


> @pippen99
> @audiofest2018
> 
> I'm thinking of trying a quad EML 2a3 mesh.
> ...


@Roasty   The only time I can hear noise from my WA33 amp with EML mesh tubes is when I use sensitive headphone like Utopia.  Do not have noise issue when paired with Abbys TC, Susvara or LCD-4 .  They are very quiet to my ears.  The noise I got when use Utopia is occasional and sounds like puff puff sound in a very low frequency.  Is this what the website referring to as spurious noise?  I am not certain.  But again this doesn’t happen very often and only when I use sensitive headphone.  May want to contact George at TubesUSA to confirm.


----------



## Roasty

audiofest2018 said:


> @Roasty   The only time I can hear noise from my WA33 amp with EML mesh tubes is when I use sensitive headphone like Utopia.  Do not have noise issue when paired with Abbys TC, Susvara or LCD-4 .  They are very quiet to my ears.  The noise I got when use Utopia is occasional and sounds like puff puff sound in a very low frequency.  Is this what the website referring to as spurious noise?  I am not certain.  But again this doesn’t happen very often and only when I use sensitive headphone.  May want to contact George at TubesUSA to confirm.



Thanks for the input! 
Overall, u like the 2a3 mesh then? 

With my 300b 2.5v it is about 98 to 99 percent silent save for occasional faint pop/puff sound and super low hum (seems inaudible until the amp is turned off), and only with Stellia and even less with Utopia.


----------



## audiofest2018

Roasty said:


> @pippen99
> @audiofest2018
> 
> I'm thinking of trying a quad EML 2a3 mesh.
> ...


With respect to 300B vs 2A3 mesh tubes perference.  Gee it is a tough call for me! 
My personal views are that these two types of tubes have their own sound signature that I thought 300B has a richer mid and deeper bass while 2A3 overall presentation is slightly well balance than 300B.  In term of details both sets are really good.  300B is more airy, energetic and perhaps more slam in it?  For 2A3 music presentation is more refine, smooth but not limited perhaps?  So if I listen to classical quartet music piece I would prefer 2A3.  But if I listen to orchestra piece or symphony with strong dynamic I would definitely pick 300B.
My 2 cents and hope it helps!


----------



## Roasty

audiofest2018 said:


> With respect to 300B vs 2A3 mesh tubes perference.  Gee it is a tough call for me!
> My personal views are that these two types of tubes have their own sound signature that I thought 300B has a richer mid and deeper bass while 2A3 overall presentation is slightly well balance than 300B.  In term of details both sets are really good.  300B is more airy, energetic and perhaps more slam in it?  For 2A3 music presentation is more refine, smooth but not limited perhaps?  So if I listen to classical quartet music piece I would prefer 2A3.  But if I listen to orchestra piece or symphony with strong dynamic I would definitely pick 300B.
> My 2 cents and hope it helps!



I agree with you. The 300b 2.5v do sound richer with more of everything for the mids to lows. However, I also find that the low end is a bit indistinct sometimes, and occasionally I would want a bit more slam, especially for songs which I know well and am expecting a strong smack in the face kinda bass hit. 

I have the KR 2a3 and it is overall less "thick" but has a nice crisp presentation. Was just wondering if the EML 2a3 mesh would be a good compromise, somewhere in between the KR 2a3 and EML 300b 2.5v.


----------



## joseph69

Roasty said:


> I'm thinking of trying a quad EML 2a3 mesh.


Jack Wu recommends the 2A3-S


----------



## audiofest2018

Roasty said:


> I agree with you. The 300b 2.5v do sound richer with more of everything for the mids to lows. However, I also find that the low end is a bit indistinct sometimes, and occasionally I would want a bit more slam, especially for songs which I know well and am expecting a strong smack in the face kinda bass hit.
> 
> I have the KR 2a3 and it is overall less "thick" but has a nice crisp presentation. Was just wondering if the EML 2a3 mesh would be a good compromise, somewhere in between the KR 2a3 and EML 300b 2.5v.


Totally agree with your view of KR 2A3 tubes and I think EML 2A3 mesh tube does have more "body" in its presentation than KR.  I was told that in general solid plate does give you a better presentation (deeper and richer) of bass than mesh tube. And I have always been wondering if I should give it a try...  Tube rolling is $$$ spending bad habbit!  Haha.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Has anyone experience with the EAT 300B Tubes ?


----------



## pippen99

Roasty said:


> @pippen99
> @audiofest2018
> 
> I'm thinking of trying a quad EML 2a3 mesh.
> ...


I experienced two different noises with my WA33 EE.  With the 2A3 there was a constant hum that did not change with impedance change.  It seems in reading this thread that some WA33 hum and others don't.  Some called it a 60hz hum.  It was very evident through my ZMF VO but hardly at all with my LCD-4.  Over time the hum would lessen but was still there audibly between tracks.  With the 300B the hum is all but gone.  I do not have the VO anymore so can not test this.  I am not technically savvy enough to know if 300 ohm impedance(VO) vs 200 ohm impedance(LCD-4) was important.  Also the WA33 is now one year old and maybe just more settled.

The second noise was random.  There would be a "bubbling" noise kind of like an old small outboard motor if you can relate to that.  It would happen randomly in each channel and be evident between tracks and audible in very quiet passages.  Usually it would last 5-15 minutes then disappear occasionally reappearing if it was a long listening session.  I rarely listen to more than two albums consecutively so that happened rarely.  This sound has not manifested itself with the 300B.

I found the 300B to be more robust in the low and midrange and of course quieter.  Hard to tell because I don't have a thermometer but may run marginally cooler.  Since I got the 300B the 2A3 have not been used. I decided to keep the EMLs as my backup and sold the stock Electro-Harmonix.  On reflection I maybe should have kept the stock tubes and sold the EMLs to fund finding out what makes the KRs special.

In researching the EML 2A3 mesh I never saw that statement.  It must be a new addition to the website.  I emailed Mike at Woo and he was noncommittal about using the 300B and recommended Psvane.

The WA33 EE is my endgame amplifier.  Good luck and enjoy!


----------



## Bonddam

pippen99 said:


> I experienced two different noises with my WA33 EE.  With the 2A3 there was a constant hum that did not change with impedance change.  It seems in reading this thread that some WA33 hum and others don't.  Some called it a 60hz hum.  It was very evident through my ZMF VO but hardly at all with my LCD-4.  Over time the hum would lessen but was still there audibly between tracks.  With the 300B the hum is all but gone.  I do not have the VO anymore so can not test this.  I am not technically savvy enough to know if 300 ohm impedance(VO) vs 200 ohm impedance(LCD-4) was important.  Also the WA33 is now one year old and maybe just more settled.
> 
> The second noise was random.  There would be a "bubbling" noise kind of like an old small outboard motor if you can relate to that.  It would happen randomly in each channel and be evident between tracks and audible in very quiet passages.  Usually it would last 5-15 minutes then disappear occasionally reappearing if it was a long listening session.  I rarely listen to more than two albums consecutively so that happened rarely.  This sound has not manifested itself with the 300B.
> 
> ...


I’m using PSvane acme in my standard I noticed on my sensitive headphone like LCD X there is the most distant hum on my right cup I thought it was the amp hum that I get. Only noticeable noise is a zip when I turn on the amp besides that my 1266 is dead quite.


----------



## Roasty

The 300b 2.5v give me a low level audible background hum when using wa33 as pre amp to an apollon purifi amp (26.5 dB gain). Perhaps too much gain. It is completly silent when using the KR 2a3 tubes on the wa33. 

Kinda bummed as I do prefer the 300b 2.5v sound with the external power amp. More meat down low..


----------



## Bonddam

Roasty said:


> The 300b 2.5v give me a low level audible background hum when using wa33 as pre amp to an apollon purifi amp (26.5 dB gain). Perhaps too much gain. It is completly silent when using the KR 2a3 tubes on the wa33.
> 
> Kinda bummed as I do prefer the 300b 2.5v sound with the external power amp. More meat down low..


Do you have the solid or mesh 300? My first 33 I was using the solid version which they stopped making. So when my Elite comes need to make a choice between 2A3 or 300. Bass and speed is most important factor.


----------



## Roasty

Bonddam said:


> Do you have the solid or mesh 300? My first 33 I was using the solid version which they stopped making. So when my Elite comes need to make a choice between 2A3 or 300. Bass and speed is most important factor.



Mine is the mesh.


----------



## audiofest2018

Roasty said:


> Mine is the mesh.


@Roasty and @Bonddam Have you tried NOS 2A3 tubes?  I have a quad set of RCA 2A3 when I got my first WA33 standard model.  I do like them better than KR 2A3 for thicker mid but EML 300b still trump over them on bass.


----------



## pippen99

Interesting in the variations experienced.  My hum was much more pronounced with the 2A3 mesh than the 300B 2.5 solid plate.  There was a quad of EAT 300B on sale here but I just searched for the ad and could not find it.  Apparently evaporated into the ether.  I do miss the blue glow I got with the 2A3 mesh a little.


----------



## musicman59

I 


pippen99 said:


> Interesting in the variations experienced.  My hum was much more pronounced with the 2A3 mesh than the 300B 2.5 solid plate.  There was a quad of EAT 300B on sale here but I just searched for the ad and could not find it.  Apparently evaporated into the ether.  I do miss the blue glow I got with the 2A3 mesh a little.


I had a pair of EAT 300B in my WA5-LE some years ago. They are nice but I prefer the EML 300B Mesh or the AVVT


----------



## Bonddam

Joining the Elite club ordered a silver. Mike said two weeks so can't wait.


----------



## JLoud

What tubes are you going to run in it? Curious to hear your opinion of the difference between standard and EE.


----------



## Bonddam

I'm going to run psvane acme which I like the bass is really good on 1266. Takasuki 274B and 6c45 gold pins. I was supposed to have EML 300B mesh but the manufacture screwed up and sent regular 300B and I waited a month.


----------



## JLoud

I'm currently running EML 2A3 solid plate with the Takasuki 274B and the 6c45 gold pins. Really like the combo, haven't heard the Psvane. I find the cost of some of these tubes a little hard to swallow when I have to blind buy. I'm satisfied with what I have now, so until I get a chance to personally hear some other tubes I'll probably stand pat.


----------



## Ciggavelli

JLoud said:


> What tubes are you going to run in it? Curious to hear your opinion of the difference between standard and EE.


I used to have the standard WA33.  Now I have the EE JPS version.  There is a big difference between the two (as there should be, given the increase in cost).  I definitely recommend the EE JPS.  Every headphone I own sounds better on the EE JPS.  I don't really have any complaints, aside from the lack of a remote.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Ciggavelli said:


> I used to have the standard WA33.  Now I have the EE JPS version.  There is a big difference between the two (as there should be, given the increase in cost).  I definitely recommend the EE JPS.  Every headphone I own sounds better on the EE JPS.  I don't really have any complaints, aside from the lack of a remote.


You couldn't A/B them, but from memory what improved from Standard to EE?
Please try to give some Details even if "everything" would be the correct answer


----------



## Ciggavelli

ThanatosVI said:


> You couldn't A/B them, but from memory what improved from Standard to EE?
> Please try to give some Details even if "everything" would be the correct answer


Bass hits harder, no transformer hum, even better separation, a bit more 3D.  The Susvaras show the difference the best of any of my headphones.  I didn't really like the Susvaras with the standard edition, but I kept them, as I wanted to try them out with the EE JPS.  Well, I love the Susvaras now.  They sound so much better out of the EE JPS.  I dunno if it's the JPS or the EE or both, but the Susvaras just sound so good now.  The TCs also sound great, but they did out of the Standard too.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Ciggavelli said:


> Bass hits harder, no transformer hum, even better separation, a bit more 3D.  The Susvaras show the difference the best of any of my headphones.  I didn't really like the Susvaras with the standard edition, but I kept them, as I wanted to try them out with the EE JPS.  Well, I love the Susvaras now.  They sound so much better out of the EE JPS.  I dunno if it's the JPS or the EE or both, but the Susvaras just sound so good now.  The TCs also sound great, but they did out of the Standard too.


Really curious about your impressions of the Solitaire P on the WA33


----------



## Adamtl

Just got a standard wa33 delivered. Upgraded a few tubes and got a nice jps labs power cord. I can see the appeal now, very analogue sounding and dynamic, I find it removes most digital glare. I was planning to use a chord Dave as many of you have done but I had some issues, firstly the analytical nature of Dave was not a good match, which was a surprise. One of the problems is that Dave is a single ended dac and from experience sounds better using rca, on the other hand wa33 is fully balanced and performs best connected using xlr’s. Dave for whatever reason gives out a line level of 3v/6v in dac mode and that was the next problem, wa33 wants a 2v/4v input so Dave then needs to be used in pre amp mode with a lowered volume to match up well (no fun). I only had one other dac in the house, a Meitner ma1 v2 that I’ve been enjoying with speakers in my main room, I tried it balanced to wa33 and it’s much better. It’s using the correct voltage of appx 4v and seems to have a much better synergy with woo. It’s more musical and has better grip. Funny but after trying the Dave in my main system it became much better for me, imagine my luck. My main amp seems to be happy with the 4v output of Dave in dac mode! What a day.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Adamtl said:


> Just got a standard wa33 delivered. Upgraded a few tubes and got a nice jps labs power cord. I can see the appeal now, very analogue sounding and dynamic, I find it removes most digital glare. I was planning to use a chord Dave as many of you have done but I had some issues, firstly the analytical nature of Dave was not a good match, which was a surprise. One of the problems is that Dave is a single ended dac and from experience sounds better using rca, on the other hand wa33 is fully balanced and performs best connected using xlr’s. Dave for whatever reason gives out a line level of 3v/6v in dac mode and that was the next problem, wa33 wants a 2v/4v input so Dave then needs to be used in pre amp mode with a lowered volume to match up well (no fun). I only had one other dac in the house, a Meitner ma1 v2 that I’ve been enjoying with speakers in my main room, I tried it balanced to wa33 and it’s much better. It’s using the correct voltage of appx 4v and seems to have a much better synergy with woo. It’s more musical and has better grip. Funny but after trying the Dave in my main system it became much better for me, imagine my luck. My main amp seems to be happy with the 4v output of Dave in dac mode! What a day.


Hmmm...interesting. I use ma DAVE in dac mode and it’s fine running XLR to my wa33. I’ve never heard this about the DAVE before, but I gotta do some research, because you have me wondering.


----------



## Adamtl

Was just going with Mikes suggestion, to be fair I didn’t attempt to use it in dac mode after his message to me.
“The *industry standard* for RCA unbalanced is 2v and 4v for balanced XLR. Anything above this range will clip the input of ANY amplifier and cause distortion to the sound. On your DAVE we recommend setting the output to 4v or below when using the XLR output and 2v or below when using the RCA output.”
It may be fine for you but it can cause clipping at higher volumes and the clipping from experience happens in the lower frequencies. I also don’t want to give the impression that Dave isn’t a good pairing, it’s all very subjective and I’m of course referring to my preferences which can vary wildly.


----------



## Roasty

Adamtl said:


> Was just going with Mikes suggestion, to be fair I didn’t attempt to use it in dac mode after his message to me.
> “The *industry standard* for RCA unbalanced is 2v and 4v for balanced XLR. Anything above this range will clip the input of ANY amplifier and cause distortion to the sound. On your DAVE we recommend setting the output to 4v or below when using the XLR output and 2v or below when using the RCA output.”
> It may be fine for you but it can cause clipping at higher volumes and the clipping from experience happens in the lower frequencies. I also don’t want to give the impression that Dave isn’t a good pairing, it’s all very subjective and I’m of course referring to my preferences which can vary wildly.



It happened to me with my rockna and wa33. Xlr from rockna outputs at 6.3V. If dac was at full volume, I'd get super thin mids and bass. Had to dial down the rockna to around 75 volume and all was good again.

Mike also sent me the same message re industry standards. Was good that he replied really fast on it.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Feb 2, 2021)

Adamtl said:


> Was just going with Mikes suggestion, to be fair I didn’t attempt to use it in dac mode after his message to me.
> “The *industry standard* for RCA unbalanced is 2v and 4v for balanced XLR. Anything above this range will clip the input of ANY amplifier and cause distortion to the sound. On your DAVE we recommend setting the output to 4v or below when using the XLR output and 2v or below when using the RCA output.”
> It may be fine for you but it can cause clipping at higher volumes and the clipping from experience happens in the lower frequencies. I also don’t want to give the impression that Dave isn’t a good pairing, it’s all very subjective and I’m of course referring to my preferences which can vary wildly.


Thanks for the info. I’ve had no clipping and I listen to a lot of hip-hip and metal (i.e., lower frequencies). I’m still going to investigate this more tomorrow. But yeah, this is the first time hearing this, and the DAVE is used by a lot of wa33 users. I’ll see what I can come up with tomorrow. Thanks


----------



## Adamtl (Feb 2, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> Thanks for the info. I’ve had no clipping and I listen to a lot of hip-hip and metal (i.e., lower frequencies). I’m still going to investigate this more tomorrow. But yeah, this is the first time hearing this, and the DAVE is used by a lot of wa33 users. I’ll see what I can come up with tomorrow. Thanks



Does your source have a volume control? It could be attenuating for you otherwise I have no idea why such a hot signal isn’t clipping.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Adamtl said:


> Does your source have a volume control? It could be attenuating for you otherwise I have no idea why such a hot signal isn’t clipping.


Nah, my Innuos Zenith Mk3 has no volume control. I put my DAVE in dac mode, which reads -3db. Then I do volume control with the wa33 and have never had a problem with clipping. A lot of people use the DAVE with their wa33, and I’ve never heard about this problem before. Maybe it has something to do with me being in the US at 120? My Isotek always shows the reading.


----------



## Roasty

Ciggavelli said:


> Nah, my Innuos Zenith Mk3 has no volume control. I put my DAVE in dac mode, which reads -3db. Then I do volume control with the wa33 and have never had a problem with clipping. A lot of people use the DAVE with their wa33, and I’ve never heard about this problem before. Maybe it has something to do with me being in the US at 120? My Isotek always shows the reading.



I tried the Dave with the WA33 on dac mode and it was completely fine too. 
Im thinking even if the Dave outputs 6v from xlr, the - 3db helps. My rockna was 6.3v but +8db gain.


----------



## Adamtl

I’ll connect it again tomorrow in dac mode so I can hear for myself. In the meantime I’m in love with this amp, my dacs will change over time but I have a feeling this amp is here to stay. Can’t wait to try my vibex power conditioner as well, I think it  might make things better, we’ll see!


----------



## Roasty

Woo recommends headphones plugged in when turning on the amp. Does anyone know if this still applies if using the wa33 as a pre-amp?


----------



## ThanatosVI

Roasty said:


> Woo recommends headphones plugged in when turning on the amp. Does anyone know if this still applies if using the wa33 as a pre-amp?


To my understanding you simply shouldn't plug in/unplug anything while it is on.

So if you only use it as a preamp,  having no headphone connected should be fine


----------



## thecrow (Feb 2, 2021)

Roasty said:


> Woo recommends headphones plugged in when turning on the amp. Does anyone know if this still applies if using the wa33 as a pre-amp?


i'm too chicken to leave my headphones plugged in when switching amps off or on

(rightly or wrongly, which i am happy to accept, i was taught different with a 2 channel setup many years ago and old habits die hard)


----------



## number1sixerfan

Same DAC settings via RCAs and I've never had an issue with clipping. I can admit that sometimes the wa33 and Dave combo can sound quite a bit analytical and can see how some would find it too analytical. Still really musical, but every now and then a touch cold imo (mainly with my TC). Overall I really like the combo but am curious about the bartok. To be fair I should also do more tube rolling, but I'm not using stock tubes either.


----------



## jlbrach

DAC mode on the dave means nothing...just set your volume to -3 or 0 if you are using the m scaler or blu 2 and if you need to adjust the volume you simply do so....no issue


----------



## Adamtl

jlbrach said:


> DAC mode on the dave means nothing...just set your volume to -3 or 0 if you are using the m scaler or blu 2 and if you need to adjust the volume you simply do so....no issue



That’s the understanding, that you can dial down the voltage using the volume control on Dave, however I personally prefer not to use a pre amp with a pre amp. I’m a bit of a purist so I chose to use a dac that fits better for me. It was a blessing because Dave made my speakers sound better, this hobby is all about synergy and if I preferred the way it sounded with Dave then great but that’s not what happened. Also I found it frustrating not to know exactly what volume corresponds to what voltage output, in my main system with my integrated it’s perfect in dac mode and sounds fantastic. I think I’d pair this wa33 in the future with stuff like bartok, mola mola or any other high end sweet/musical sounding dac and continue to use Dave with speakers where it really shines.


----------



## Ciggavelli

jlbrach said:


> DAC mode on the dave means nothing...just set your volume to -3 or 0 if you are using the m scaler or blu 2 and if you need to adjust the volume you simply do so....no issue


Dac mode keeps it steady at -3db. Preamp mode is the exact same thing but you can adjust the volume. I keep my DAVE in dac mode and only use my wa33 to change the volume.

But, if Woo Audio is telling people to not use a DAVE in dac mode (keep in mind many of us do and have had no problems), I want to know why.

Hopefully someone at Woo Audio will enlighten us


----------



## Ciggavelli

Adamtl said:


> That’s the understanding, that you can dial down the voltage using the volume control on Dave, however I personally prefer not to use a pre amp with a pre amp. I’m a bit of a purist so I chose to use a dac that fits better for me. It was a blessing because Dave made my speakers sound better, this hobby is all about synergy and if I preferred the way it sounded with Dave then great but that’s not what happened. Also I found it frustrating not to know exactly what volume corresponds to what voltage output, in my main system with my integrated it’s perfect in dac mode and sounds fantastic. I think I’d pair this wa33 in the future with stuff like bartok, mola mola or any other high end sweet/musical sounding dac and continue to use Dave with speakers where it really shines.


+1 about the Tambaqui. I’m seriously considering buying that dac and using it in my main rig. Then I’ll move my DAVE and M-scaler to my office.


----------



## Adamtl

Ciggavelli said:


> Dac mode keeps it steady at -3db. Preamp mode is the exact same thing but you can adjust the volume. I keep my DAVE in dac mode and only use my wa33 to change the volume.
> 
> But, if Woo Audio is telling people to not use a DAVE in dac mode (keep in mind many of us do and have had no problems), I want to know why.
> 
> Hopefully someone at Woo Audio will enlighten us


It would be running hot, getting more voltage then recommended, they’re built like tanks but you could in theory be shortening the lifespan of certain internal parts.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Adamtl said:


> It would be running hot, getting more voltage then recommended, they’re built like tanks but you could in theory be shortening the lifespan of certain internal parts.


It’s my understanding, from reading a lot of posts in various places, is that the WA33 always gets hot to touch when it’s been on for a while. So, I don’t know about that


----------



## Adamtl

Ciggavelli said:


> It’s my understanding, from reading a lot of posts in various places, is that the WA33 always gets hot to touch when it’s been on for a while. So, I don’t know about that


It’s an expression, running hot meaning getting more current then recommended


----------



## jlbrach

-3 in DAC mode or in preamp mode is the same thing....it doesnt change unless you change it so I am not sure what the issue or discussion is


----------



## Adamtl

jlbrach said:


> -3 in DAC mode or in preamp mode is the same thing....it doesnt change unless you change it so I am not sure what the issue or discussion is


Yes 100%. The issue is that our wa33’s are built to accept a 2v (rca) or 4v (xlr) input. Those of us using Dave in dac mode or in pre amp mode at -3   are sending 3v (rca) or 6v (xlr) to wa33. The discussion is about weather or not that harms the amp in any way.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Whoever is from Woo Audio, please respond to our questions about the DAVE. We want to learn more and make sure everything is running safely.


----------



## Lucky87

Just got a email receiving WA33 Elite on Saturday and it says 2 x boxes? Can some confirm 2 x boxes? Thanks


----------



## Roasty

Lucky87 said:


> Just got a email receiving WA33 Elite on Saturday and it says 2 x boxes? Can some confirm 2 x boxes? Thanks



Yep two boxes. One for the amp and one for the tubes.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Feb 4, 2021)

Lucky87 said:


> Just got a email receiving WA33 Elite on Saturday and it says 2 x boxes? Can some confirm 2 x boxes? Thanks


Yes. 1 for the amp, 1 for the tubes

Edit: @Roasty beat me by a second


----------



## innocentblood (Feb 5, 2021)

Hello, I currently own the WA33 and am using the GE422A rectifier tube. 2 days ago, there was a power trip in my home and my WA33 was on at that time.

The next day when I turned my WA33 on, I noticed "sparks" in my rectifier tube. the WA33 itself sounds normal and all the other tubes look fine to me. I do not hear any weird sounds from the WA33.

However I am concerned about the sparks inside the rectifier tube that appear when I turn on the WA33. it happened again today. should I have the rectifier tube replaced immediately?

I appreciate any input that you can give me. thank you


----------



## joseph69

innocentblood said:


> it happened again today. should I have the rectifier tube replaced immediately?


I sure would, and I put the least expensive rectifier tube I could find to assure there's not an internal issue causing the tube to spork.
I would also consult with Mike from Woo Audio as soon as possible.


----------



## JLoud

I second the above recommendation. And before you turn it on again.


----------



## innocentblood

thank you very much guys - Mike also advised me the same. I removed the GE and put in the stock PSVane rectifier that originally came with the WA33. thankfully nothing weird happened when I turned on the amp. Mike recommended the KR Audio rectifier. Any of you guys using that and what are your experiences so far? I'm currently using all stock tubes since getting the amp back in April 2019 and I think I'm ready for a change...


----------



## Clive101 (Feb 6, 2021)

innocentblood said:


> thank you very much guys - Mike also advised me the same. I removed the GE and put in the stock PSVane rectifier that originally came with the WA33. thankfully nothing weird happened when I turned on the amp. Mike recommended the KR Audio rectifier. Any of you guys using that and what are your experiences so far? I'm currently using all stock tubes since getting the amp back in April 2019 and I think I'm ready for a change...



I have the KR Audio HP, Takatsuki 247B tubes and Psvane ACME, KR Audio HP 2A3 tubes.

What is your preference musical vs detail ?

My HP tubes are running in presently and I only began to like them after 40 mins when the equipment is warmed up. Where as with the Takatsuki and Psvane good after 20 mins but both have a different sound.

It will depend on your headphones and personal preference which tubes will suit you better.

I love the LCD4 midrange with the KR HPs I feel it may be a little over kill in this area so looking like the Tak - Psvane mix is better suited for me with the LCD4.

Although with different headphones that are more bright the KR HPs may be better match for me.

I have yet to try the KR 274B with the Psvane 2A3 which is another option.

Hope that helps


----------



## JLoud

I have the Tak 274b and really like it with my Abyss TC and LCD-4. The EML 5U4G mesh is also very good. Sound stage is similar to the Tak, but not quite as detailed. Close but not as fast maybe. I also have a 596 that is nice. Fast and detailed, sound stage isn't as large.


----------



## joseph69

innocentblood said:


> I'm currently using all stock tubes since getting the amp back in April 2019 and I think I'm ready for a change...


Would you mind sharing what you mean by "getting the amp back in April 2019"?


----------



## innocentblood

joseph69 said:


> Would you mind sharing what you mean by "getting the amp back in April 2019"?



i meant I bought the amp back in April 2019 ☺️ I’ve been using stock tubes ever since. Since I had a spare GE422A rectifier tube, I used that on the WA33. Every other tube on the WA33 came originally with the amp.


----------



## joseph69

innocentblood said:


> i meant I bought the amp back in April 2019 ☺ I’ve been using stock tubes ever since. Since I had a spare GE422A rectifier tube, I used that on the WA33. Every other tube on the WA33 came originally with the amp.


From your wording I was under the assumption it was sent into Woo for repair so I was just curious as to what happened.


----------



## pippen99

I got a big surprise this morning when I went to power up my amp.  Apparently the Tak 274B arced itself out of existence last night when I finished my listening session or else this morning when powered up but there was no fireworks so I am inclined towards the former.  I was always concerned about powering up.  That is why I utilize a sacrificial $15 pair of headphones when powering up.  The Tak was put in service 12/28/2019 so 13 months on a 12 month warranty.  Can anyone here say "planned obsolescence".  I emailed Mike to see if there is any give and take on the warranty but am not particularly hopeful.  If there is no accommodation will definitely not purchase another Tak.  What are the forums suggestions and recommendations?  Using EML 300B 2.5v or 2A3 Mesh as power tubes.  Very disappointing


----------



## joseph69

@pippen99 
I used a NOS United Electric USAF 596 in my WA6 for 4+yrs, then used the same one it in my WA33 for +/-2yrs, and when I sold the WA33 that same 596 was included in the sale to @JLoud. I know he is using another rectifier since, but I'm sure there are no issue with the 596 whatsoever. Very reliable tube in my experience, and I enjoy the sound very much. I use the EML 2A3 S in my past & current WA33 and was curious as to how the EML 5U4G sounded and was going to buy one. Fortunately, I had the opportunity to trade my 596 for the 5U4G with another member to demo being he was interested in buying a 596 (which he immediately did) and I did not proceed with purchasing the 5U4G being I much preferred the 596.


----------



## pippen99

Doesn't the 596 require an adapter?  I too am considering the EML 5U4G Mesh.  The price of the EML 274B is the same and I do not know why I would prefer one over the other?  I don't think I can justify big money for a rectifier especially after my experience with the Tak.  I did like the Sophia 274B in my WA5 but never compared it to anything else.


----------



## JLoud

I have the Tak as well as the fore mentioned 596. Also the EML 5U4G mesh. I prefer the Tak as it is a combo of the 596 and EML. The 596 seems faster while the EML has a bigger more 3D sound stage.


----------



## joseph69

pippen99 said:


> Doesn't the 596 require an adapter?


Yes, it does require an adapter and Woo sells both, the USAF 596 w/adapter for $399.00.
I've had a small stash of NOS 596 tubes for some time now, so all I needed was the Woo adapter since that was included in my sale as well.


----------



## pippen99

I am researching but will not commit until I hear back from Woo.  I have the stock tube to use for now.  I may advertise to see what people have surplus lying around.  The experience with the Tak has made me wary of committing to a new expensive tube.  I have owned tube amps for about 5 years and this is my first failure.  Maybe I should count myself lucky.  Just wish I really felt that way.


----------



## joseph69

pippen99 said:


> The experience with the Tak has made me wary of committing to a new expensive tube.


I don't blame you, at all.


----------



## pippen99

I heard back from Woo.  They said Tak is very strict with their warranty.  It was what I expected but still disappointing.  I am going to place a want ad in the sale forums.  If anyone has an upscale rectifier they are wanting to part with PM me.


----------



## pippen99

I have been offered a WE 422A.  Does anyone have experience with the 422A.  The seller states it was NOS on purchase and used it approx 200 hours.  He doesn't have a tester so no measurements.  I also have been offered a 10% discount off a new KR 274B HP.  Opinions?


----------



## audiofest2018

I have used 422A rectifier tube for my WA33 amp and love it.  Personally I prefer it better than other rectifier tubes, including Tak 274B and GE 274B..etc.  Based on the picture you show the date code is 426 probably it was manufactured back in June-1954 timeframe.  Compared to other rectifier tubes I thought 422A has a slight better details and sound image.  Although from the technical standpoints, some people don't believe rectifier tube make any difference.  I do hear the difference from my own experience.  If the price is right you might want to give it a try!  Good luck.


----------



## koven

FWIW you can get a Tak 274B under MSRP here. I'm happy with the KR 274B personally.


----------



## pippen99

After what happened to the first one the Tak is not at the top of my list unless a gently used one comes along at least 20% less than that.


----------



## pippen99

Pulled the trigger on the WE 422A.  Going to leave the ad up until it gets here.  Who knows but something else interesting might pop-up.  Thanks to all who helped!


----------



## Adamtl

Decided to give Dave another shot, I got an m scaler which I know helped the tt2 I used to have. Now I’m getting a smooth delivery. Buttery. Very happy with woo.


----------



## Lucky87

Adamtl said:


> Decided to give Dave another shot, I got an m scaler which I know helped the tt2 I used to have. Now I’m getting a smooth delivery. Buttery. Very happy with woo.


What model WA33 & tubes? I have the WA33 Elite stock tubes with Dave by itself. Sounds amazing with Susvara's but so far with other headphones very good but borderline fatiguing. Do you have have any special cables? I'm trying to decide which way to go. New cables JPS, MSCALER, or TUBES thanks


----------



## Ciggavelli (Feb 10, 2021)

Adamtl said:


> Decided to give Dave another shot, I got an m scaler which I know helped the tt2 I used to have. Now I’m getting a smooth delivery. Buttery. Very happy with woo.


I guess the whole thing with the DAVE being too hot for the WA33 has been resolved. I would have liked a Woo Audio person to answer our questions about that though, but whatever  

I think the extremely high resolution of the DAVE mixes so well with the WA33. You lose resolution and clarity with tubes, but since the DAVE has so much of that already, it’s not an issue at all.



Lucky87 said:


> What model WA33 & tubes? I have the WA33 Elite stock tubes with Dave by itself. Sounds amazing with Susvara's but so far with other headphones very good but borderline fatiguing. Do you have have any special cables? I'm trying to decide which way to go. New cables JPS, MSCALER, or TUBES thanks


I used to have a standard WA33, now have a EE w/JPS wiring. I also use Susvaras and TCs out of the amp, and have had upgraded tubes with my old Standard WA33 and current EE JPS

I know you didn’t ask me, but here’s what I’d do:

1) get upgraded tubes ASAP. The change in tubes from the stock ones makes a large difference.

2) Get a high quality interconnect between the DAVE and WA33

3) get the m-scaler and get upgraded BNC cables as well (the stock bnc cables are not very good at all)

4) Upgrade your headphone cables. Maybe go copper, given that you are experiencing brightness

5) Buy a quality power conditioner, like an Isotek, etc.

6) Buy a USB reclocker, from Mute, SOtM, or Innuos, etc.

7) Buy a streamer/server.

If I had to do it all again, I’d get the above upgrades in that particular order.


----------



## Adamtl

Ciggavelli said:


> I guess the whole thing with the DAVE being too hot for the WA33 has been resolved. I would have liked a Woo Audio person to answer our questions about that though, but whatever
> 
> I think the extremely high resolution of the DAVE mixes so well with the WA33. You lose resolution and clarity with tubes, but since the DAVE has so much of that already, it’s not an issue at all.
> 
> ...



The issue with Dave was using it in dac mode where the signal is 2v higher (balanced) then the woo was built to receive. So I’m using it in pre amp mode at -6 (unknown voltage) instead of the -3 (fixed voltage at 6v). My gripe is really with chord... what volume is exactly equivalent to 4v?im guessing that -6 is somewhere in that ballpark but I’d love to know the exact equivalent.
Really good advice right there, I’m fairly new to the wa33 party so I’m still learning. I’m using stock tubes with a standard version but I swapped the power tube for a takatsuki 274b and I’m waiting on psvane 2a3’s and 6c45pi Electro Harmonix. While waiting I got the m scaler with sbooster and it was a profound change. I’m using a vibex power conditioner, jps labs kaptovator power cables for Dave and wa33, audience au24 sx xlr, bnc and USB cables. Using a high end dap as a source. The sound I’m getting with d8000 pro is otherworldly, I can’t even imagine what the new tubes can do.


----------



## Adamtl

And having the m scaler away from Dave and woo helps with rf, I also have a shelf unit that blocks rf vertically which helps.


----------



## koven

I don't have any problems with 5.8v XLR into WA33. I have another DAC that is 4v and they both sound fine, except the volume position differs a bit.


----------



## Adamtl

Someone just blew a power tube recently, not saying he was using a higher voltage but those are the kind of things that can eventually happen. It’s not really something you will notice till it’s too late IMO. Clipping is obvious but no clipping doesn’t mean the voltage is within regulation either.. it may sound like it can handle the extra voltage but who knows what that means long term. I asked woo to have a visit and respond to us about this so I’m sure they will (they said they would)


----------



## koven

Indeed would be good to hear from Woo. But his tube failure seems unrelated, his signature says PS DSD, that DAC has a 2.8v XLR output.


----------



## Adamtl (Feb 10, 2021)

koven said:


> Indeed would be good to hear from Woo. But his tube failure seems unrelated, his signature says PS DSD, that DAC has a 2.8v XLR output.


I figured it was unrelated. We can all guess but I think it’s best to wait for woo to tell us if we’re damaging anything or potentially damaging anything by running more voltage then they advise. I was told in no uncertain terms by them to use my Dave in pre with less voltage. That’s why I’d love to know what volume represents 4v I guess I’ll email Rob and find out.


----------



## pippen99

Presuming that you all are referring to me the tube that blew was Tak 274B rectifier.


----------



## Adamtl

pippen99 said:


> Presuming that you all are referring to me the tube that blew was Tak 274B rectifier.


I was using you as an example because it was recent but I wasn’t saying you did anything wrong. I feel so bad about your tube, mine was so expensive I couldn’t imagine having to replace it in 13 months


----------



## jlbrach

Adamtl said:


> I figured it was unrelated. We can all guess but I think it’s best to wait for woo to tell us if we’re damaging anything or potentially damaging anything by running more voltage then they advise. I was told in no uncertain terms by them to use my Dave in pre with less voltage. That’s why I’d love to know what volume represents 4v I guess I’ll email Rob and find out.


just lower the volume to -6 if you are concerned


----------



## Adamtl

jlbrach said:


> just lower the volume to -6 if you are concerned


I did! Was just trying to let others know, seems some ppl didn’t realize it was an issue.


----------



## jlbrach

I own the dave depending on the amp I use I always adjust the volume...easy


----------



## pippen99

Adamtl said:


> I was using you as an example because it was recent but I wasn’t saying you did anything wrong. I feel so bad about your tube, mine was so expensive I couldn’t imagine having to replace it in 13 months



The only reason I responded is that it was said that it was a power tube that blew not a rectifier.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Agree that it would be good to hear from Woo. I primarily don't* use the Dave in dac mode and have never had an issue at all (I've had the combo like 7 months). Nor have I ever heard of anyone having an issue. But also not saying that it can't be, again would be good to hear from Woo Audio.


----------



## Bonddam

Adamtl said:


> The issue with Dave was using it in dac mode where the signal is 2v higher (balanced) then the woo was built to receive. So I’m using it in pre amp mode at -6 (unknown voltage) instead of the -3 (fixed voltage at 6v). My gripe is really with chord... what volume is exactly equivalent to 4v?im guessing that -6 is somewhere in that ballpark but I’d love to know the exact equivalent.
> Really good advice right there, I’m fairly new to the wa33 party so I’m still learning. I’m using stock tubes with a standard version but I swapped the power tube for a takatsuki 274b and I’m waiting on psvane 2a3’s and 6c45pi Electro Harmonix. While waiting I got the m scaler with sbooster and it was a profound change. I’m using a vibex power conditioner, jps labs kaptovator power cables for Dave and wa33, audience au24 sx xlr, bnc and USB cables. Using a high end dap as a source. The sound I’m getting with d8000 pro is otherworldly, I can’t even imagine what the new tubes can do.


If you have a volt meter you could measure a frequency to find the correct volume. That's what I was taught and applied to my car audio days in sound quality competitions. The TT2 is amazing combo on my old WA33 hoping for well better performance on the Elite. Oh forgot another device that is handy is clipping meter. Have one no use for it anymore.


----------



## Adamtl

Bonddam said:


> If you have a volt meter you could measure a frequency to find the correct volume. That's what I was taught and applied to my car audio days in sound quality competitions. The TT2 is amazing combo on my old WA33 hoping for well better performance on the Elite. Oh forgot another device that is handy is clipping meter. Have one no use for it anymore.


Thanks, chord got back to me and said -6 on volume in pre is appx 4v. I feel better now knowing -6 is the appropriate output


----------



## ThanatosVI

Adamtl said:


> Thanks, chord got back to me and said -6 on volume in pre is appx 4v. I feel better now knowing -6 is the appropriate output


Always good to have the official answer


----------



## Bonddam

Adamtl said:


> Thanks, chord got back to me and said -6 on volume in pre is appx 4v. I feel better now knowing -6 is the appropriate output


That’s good the volt meter is a juggling act.


----------



## Adamtl

Anyone try heddphone with their wa33 yet? I just had a listen and it’s a really really nice match at low impedance and low gain. Better synergy then the dynamic driver headphones I’ve tried so far. Same synergy as planar


----------



## Ciggavelli (Feb 11, 2021)

Adamtl said:


> Anyone try heddphone with their wa33 yet? I just had a listen and it’s a really really nice match at low impedance and low gain. Better synergy then the dynamic driver headphones I’ve tried so far. Same synergy as planar


I have too. Coming from Susvaras and TCs, I was unimpressed. They seemed grainy. I don’t know if it is fair to compare the Heddphone with the Susvaras and TCs though, given the large price difference. My friend who brought them over thought they sounded worse compared to the other headphones. He eventually sold the Heddphone and kept his TCs.

If I compared the Heddphone to different headphones, I probably would have a different opinion. So, I guess it’s all relative


----------



## Adamtl

I’m sort of all over the place. I have a d8000pro and Diana phi. 1266 tc coming soon. Maybe it’s because of Dave+m scaler but I was getting a powerful full sounding experience, the susvara my friend brought over was too polite for me personally and the utopia was unlistenable. Diff strokes! Love this hobby


----------



## Ciggavelli

Adamtl said:


> I’m sort of all over the place. I have a d8000pro and Diana phi. 1266 tc coming soon. Maybe it’s because of Dave+m scaler but I was getting a powerful full sounding experience, the susvara my friend brought over was too polite for me personally and the utopia was unlistenable. Diff strokes! Love this hobby


Hahaha...so true! 

The Susvaras take a long time to appreciate. I was kinda meh about them for like 6-8 months. I was going to sell them, but I kept them. I’d always have them in rotation, and then one day it clicked. I was amazed by them. They’re just such complex headphones. It took my brain a long time to comprehend. In the Susvara thread other people mentioned the same thing.

I agree about the Utopia. It was so bright off the WA33. I sold those ASAP. But, other wa33 owners love to pair it with the Utopias. And honestly, I’ve been thinking about getting another pair and trying them again. Maybe my brain or ears would think differently now.

Oh, you’re gonna love the TCs out of your wa33. They are so good


----------



## Adamtl

Ciggavelli said:


> Hahaha...so true!
> 
> The Susvaras take a long time to appreciate. I was kinda meh about them for like 6-8 months. I was going to sell them, but I kept them. I’d always have them in rotation, and then one day it clicked. I was amazed by them. They’re just such complex headphones. It took my brain a long time to comprehend. In the Susvara thread other people mentioned the same thing.
> 
> ...


I believe it, so many ppl swear by them as does my buddy who owns the ones I heard. I tend to like a small bass lift which is why I gravitated to the d8000’s and soon 1266 which I think are also boosted. I prefer my grado hemps to utopia go figure! Lol.


----------



## Roasty

The Utopia + WA33 is a most lovely combo! Sometimes, it sounds even fuller and bassier to me than with the Susvara/WA33. The imaging and layering and 3d presentation with the Utopia/WA33 is the best I've had so far. 

On the Utopia, a faint audible background hum is present with 300b 2.5v tubes, but silent with the KR 2a3 tubes. I may contemplate switching back to the 2a3 tubes just to enjoy the Utopia a bit more.


----------



## Adamtl

I’m still using stock tubes except for my tak 274, could be why they sounded bright to me but I’ve had this relationship with utopia for a long time, we have a thing where I buy them and try them out of whatever amp I have at the time and then I think, too bright, sell and the cycle goes on. No doubt they layer and separate really well.


----------



## pippen99

I had the Heddphone for a week on a tour.  I played them through my Lau and WA33.  I found them to be good about on the same level as my then Verite Open and inferior to my LCD-4.  From all that was hyped about them I was prepared to keep them and even had a cable ready for them.  Unfortunately the ergonomics and build quality were just not up to par.  I never could get them situated so that they did not squeak or hurt the top of my head.  The only time I tried the Utopia I found it intolerably bright.  That was on my WA5 before I moved up to the WA33.  My preferred sound signature is Audeze.  I have been waiting a couple of years for a new TOTL Audeze.  Maybe this year.


----------



## Adamtl (Feb 11, 2021)

Yep, comfort is an issue but I have a small head and they are comfy for me, I’m also listening to dance music, African, reggae, electronic etc so my priorities are mids, lows and speed. I find them to have that warm blanket like foundation that planars have, smooth high end that’s slightly rolled off up top and musical like a better lcd3. Lcd4 was always too much, with my music types and loud listening levels they would pound my brains.
And
A tone to kill for (hedd)


----------



## pippen99

I did like the SQ of the Hedd.  I feared that the bass would be insufficient but was entirely wrong.  The highs were just right without the fatigue I encountered with the Utopia. The only problem I found technically with the Hedd was soundstage.  The Hedd soundstage was appropriately wide and tall but lacking in depth.  For me it sounded like all the instruments were in one plane all the same distance away from the listener.


----------



## jlbrach

Ciggavelli said:


> Hahaha...so true!
> 
> The Susvaras take a long time to appreciate. I was kinda meh about them for like 6-8 months. I was going to sell them, but I kept them. I’d always have them in rotation, and then one day it clicked. I was amazed by them. They’re just such complex headphones. It took my brain a long time to comprehend. In the Susvara thread other people mentioned the same thing.
> 
> ...


I had the same experience...owned the susvara and sold it...rebought it and still didnt click...liked it but didnt appreciate it...suddenly after I got my bakoon 13r it all clicked..the combination of space, the ethereal presentation...the incredible detail...the depth and the incredible placement of the instruments


----------



## joseph69

Ciggavelli said:


> I agree about the Utopia. It was so bright off the WA33. I sold those ASAP. But, other wa33 owners love to pair it with the Utopias.


Amazing how upstream gear and hearing reflect the Utopia sound. 
I find the Utopia/WA33 simply an amazing combo without the slightest hint of sounding bright.



Roasty said:


> The Utopia + WA33 is a most lovely combo! Sometimes, it sounds even fuller and bassier to me than with the Susvara/WA33. The imaging and layering and 3d presentation with the Utopia/WA33 is the best I've had so far.


Couldn't agree with you more about the Utopia/WA33 combo.
I sold my Susvara, but the thought never crossed my mind to sell my Utopia.


----------



## Lucky87

When I said a couple post back that my Utopia, Z1R are borderline fatiguing with WA33 EE I was wrong just impatient only have about 40 hours on stock tubes and last night was the night the Utopia’s and Z1R just exploded with detail and huge soundstage with no fatigue. 
Just pulled trigger on TC, with KR HP tubes, selling Empyreans..


----------



## JLoud

I was listening to my Z1R last night on the WA33, very musical and enjoyable pairing. Laidback but still detailed. Have to love this hobby, so many wonderful headphones to scratch whatever audio itch you may have.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I just ordered the 2020 Utopia package, as I wanted that XLR cables and case.  Hopefully I'll like them more out of my WA33 this time


----------



## innocentblood

have any of you guys had any experience dealing with https://www.partsconnexion.com/ ? 

I am a first time customer and I want to make an enquiry regarding shipping before finalising my purchase but I have not heard back from them for a few days now...


----------



## Roasty

innocentblood said:


> have any of you guys had any experience dealing with https://www.partsconnexion.com/ ?
> 
> I am a first time customer and I want to make an enquiry regarding shipping before finalising my purchase but I have not heard back from them for a few days now...



Yes they're legit and I've had a few transactions with them. They do reply emails quite promptly though.


----------



## innocentblood

thanks for the reassurance  I did check my spam folder but there was nothing there. I'll give it a couple of more days and will follow up with them again.


----------



## pippen99

I bought something from them.  It all went well.  I never tried to communicate with them so I can't speak to that question.


----------



## JLoud

I too have made a couple of purchases from them. No issues. Although I didn't have to email them so can't help there.


----------



## moemoney

innocentblood said:


> have any of you guys had any experience dealing with https://www.partsconnexion.com/ ?
> 
> I am a first time customer and I want to make an enquiry regarding shipping before finalising my purchase but I have not heard back from them for a few days now...


I also made several purchases from them as well including my Taka 300b/274b


----------



## Roasty

Has anyone had experience swapping out the fuse for the wa33? Anyone tried the Synergistic Research fuses with good results?


----------



## Clive101

Roasty said:


> Has anyone had experience swapping out the fuse for the wa33? Anyone tried the Synergistic Research fuses with good results?



Fuses don't get me started ! 
For me all fuses make a difference and do change the sound, personally for me it is a rabbit hole.
I had the blue for about a year although great detail but I had fatigued so sold them, the Orange were very good (good bass and nice treble) but for me they sucked the midrange so did not get past the free trial period. (my experience with13 amp plug fuses)
Being in the UK we have fuses in the 13 amp plugs as most appliances have fuses just ditch these fuses for example as you say the Woo Wa33 has a fuse already.
Removing all 13 amp fuses made an improvement in SQ. There is a simple work around.
Recently my Antipodes K50 blew a fuse it has two fuses in the power inlet, replaced the fuse and the sound changed, tried some HiFi replacements 
Hifi Lab Audio Fuse Ceramic High-End 1A 250V: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics around £12.00 IMHO better SQ.
My advice is to purchase some cheap fuses for the Woo and then perhaps the Orange on free trial.
Please let us all know how you get on. (I would be very interested)


----------



## Roasty

Clive101 said:


> Fuses don't get me started !
> For me all fuses make a difference and do change the sound, personally for me it is a rabbit hole.
> I had the blue for about a year although great detail but I had fatigued so sold them, the Orange were very good (good bass and nice treble) but for me they sucked the midrange so did not get past the free trial period. (my experience with13 amp plug fuses)
> Being in the UK we have fuses in the 13 amp plugs as most appliances have fuses just ditch these fuses for example as you say the Woo Wa33 has a fuse already.
> ...



Thanks for that input! 
Placed and order today at a local shop and got it delivered in a half hour. 






I have it powered off an AQ niagara 1200, fed from wall by an AQ tornado high current with an SR orange. From niagara to amp, I'll be using an AQ tornado source also with SR orange. 

Will update after a few weeks I suppose!


----------



## pippen99

I received the WE 422A today.  Popped it in after letting warm to room temp.  Sounds good.  I may still get it measured if I can find a tester in town.  It burns quite a bit brighter than all the other modern rectifiers I have had.  Is this normal?  I will listen for a week or so and then decide whether to use my discount for the KR 274B.


----------



## musicman59

joseph69 said:


> Amazing how upstream gear and hearing reflect the Utopia sound.
> I find the Utopia/WA33 simply an amazing combo without the slightest hint of sounding bright.
> 
> 
> ...


I have own the Utopia almost since they come out and love them. Probably the best sound I have ever heard was at a Woo demo room at Axpona 2 or 3 years ago. The source was a big EMM DAC feeding a WA33 EE and using the Utopia with the Axios AG cable. It was impressive to the point I went ahead and bought the Axios AG cable. The WA33 is my end game tube amplifier I just need to fiancé the way to put the money together for it.


----------



## joseph69

musicman59 said:


> I have own the Utopia almost since they come out and love them. Probably the best sound I have ever heard was at a Woo demo room at Axpona 2 or 3 years ago. The source was a big EMM DAC feeding a WA33 EE and using the Utopia with the Axios AG cable. It was impressive to the point I went ahead and bought the Axios AG cable. The WA33 is my end game tube amplifier I just need to fiancé the way to put the money together for it.


The best part of rotating my headphones weekly is looking forward to hearing my Utopia/WA33 combo again, which have been in the rotation since this past Sunday so I'm still enjoying it!


----------



## JLoud

I had a Utopia and sold it. This was before I had the WA33 or the WA5LE I had previously. I’m thinking of getting a Utopia in the future. Again. Previously ran it on a SS amp, I’ve come to the conclusion they didn’t pair well.


----------



## Adamtl

Have to say my fav combo so far is with d8000pro by a large amount. Getting 1266tc soon, I’m sure it’ll be just as good if not better. Utopia needs an otl amp to sound best imo


----------



## musicman59

After I sold my WA5-LE v1 I got te Prima Luna Dialuge Premium HP integrated to use just as headphones amp. I does a pretty good job and the Utoplia with the Axious AG sounds darn close to what I remember for the audition with the WA33 EE. It does also a great job with the Susvara but still my sights are in the WA33 EE.


----------



## Lucky87

Anyone using the KR Audio 2A3 HP, with premium gold-pin Electro Harmonix 6C45Pi, KR Audio 274B HP? I am wonder what the sound difference between the KR 274B VS Takatsuki 274B also why is there such a price difference from one site at $1250 vs another at $850 on the Takatsuki?

Thanks


----------



## Roasty

The KR274b sound a bit more energetic to me and also has the tighter low end. In contrast, the tak274b is a slightly more relaxed and laid back sound with the smoothest highs and a somewhat thicker low end. I have the tak274b on the wa33 most of the time to "even out" the sound I get with the TC and Susvara, but I do enjoy the KR274b with the Utopia a lot too.


----------



## pippen99

A caution:  My Tak 274B roasted itself after 13 months.  There is no give and take on their warranty(12 months and out).  I purchased a WE 422A to replace.  I can't describe the difference as I have had it only a few days.  I am still considering the KR 274B as an alternative.


----------



## innocentblood

I have a similar experience with the WE 422A which started sparking recently after a power trip that happened in my home while the WA33 was still on. but I bought mine used about 2 years ago and I don't really know many hours the WE 422A has seen up till its demise. I do believe that if the power trip had not happened then the WE 422A will still be alive and well.


----------



## Lucky87

Roasty said:


> The KR274b sound a bit more energetic to me and also has the tighter low end. In contrast, the tak274b is a slightly more relaxed and laid back sound with the smoothest highs and a somewhat thicker low end. I have the tak274b on the wa33 most of the time to "even out" the sound I get with the TC and Susvara, but I do enjoy the KR274b with the Utopia a lot too.


Thanks yeah I’ll probably add the TAK 274B as well. Do you know why there is such a price difference?


----------



## pippen99

innocentblood said:


> I have a similar experience with the WE 422A which started sparking recently after a power trip that happened in my home while the WA33 was still on. but I bought mine used about 2 years ago and I don't really know many hours the WE 422A has seen up till its demise. I do believe that if the power trip had not happened then the WE 422A will still be alive and well.


The seller said he had put only 200 hours on it since purchasing it NOS.  Unfortunately he did not have measurements so I plan to get it tested.  If it is not near NOS I will definitely go ahead with the purchase of the KR 274B.


----------



## Adamtl

Everyone should be using a power conditioner of some kind to even out voltage surges and protect against damage during a power failure.


----------



## Roasty

Lucky87 said:


> Thanks yeah I’ll probably add the TAK 274B as well. Do you know why there is such a price difference?



Price difference between the KR and Tak?


----------



## Lucky87 (Feb 20, 2021)

Roasty said:


> Price difference between the KR and Tak?


Sorry the TAK 274B is $1250 on Woo site and on another site at $850 (parts connection)) a $400 difference just wondering why?


----------



## Roasty

Lucky87 said:


> Sorry the TAK 274B is $1250 on Woo site and on another site at $850 (posted a couple of threads back) a $400 difference just wondering why?



Just go with the one from partsconnexion. There is quite a markup of the tubes on the Woo website.


----------



## Clive101 (Feb 20, 2021)

Lucky87 said:


> Anyone using the KR Audio 2A3 HP, with premium gold-pin Electro Harmonix 6C45Pi, KR Audio 274B HP? I am wonder what the sound difference between the KR 274B VS Takatsuki 274B also why is there such a price difference from one site at $1250 vs another at $850 on the Takatsuki?
> 
> Thanks


For me the KR 274B HP is too laid back and much prefer the Tak 274b with the combination of tubes  you describe.
I love the laid back sound BUT with the KR it was too much with the LCD 4 and WA33 EE JPS.
You could say I found the KR bloated but only had a max of 30 hours so maybe this is the issue, does it get better after burn in ?
I also use a PS Audio P15 power supply owing to voltage swing, since using this the Woo is dead quiet.


----------



## Shini44

i bought these tubes for WA33 KR 2A3-HP (<Link) these would work right? since the one i saw on Woo Audio website are on back order.


----------



## Bonddam

Enjoying my new Elite base model with ACME 2a3 takasuki, and gold pins. This is a big step up from my old standard. The Volume control takes more muscle to turn. Sound is smooth with no loss in energy.  Get more control with the better volume pot. Can hope once the internals cook in that it should get even better.


----------



## JLoud

Looking forward to any in depth comparisons between the standard and EE. Of course my wallet is begging you to remain silent.


----------



## Bonddam (Feb 20, 2021)

I guess the best way to have compared both would be using stock tubes. My comparison couldn’t be done as I’m using a different DAC. I just purchased a May KTE R2R but the current Mytek Manhattan 2 is sounding better then the TT2 and standard setup from before. Bigger soundstage lots of detail. The Empyrean just sounds like a new headphone with holographic presentation that I never experienced before. It is still warm and robust sounding treble is not rolled off it just sparkles. I’m going to let go of the Reference Milo. The Elite is dead silent but  you still have the transformer hum from the amp. So in a dead silent room you can hear the amp like the standard. Only thing I hate is when the tubes go I’ll be stuck with stock. Or I’ll have to work some overtime and running a drop in the night will suck(cable that feeds your internet from the pole). I leave with saying maybe it is more tube sound then the standard.


----------



## Lucky87

Roasty said:


> Just go with the one from partsconnexion. There is quite a markup of the tubes on the Woo website.


Well just ordered 1 from them today with Chris and he said he has only *1* more left on this incoming Batch if any is interested in the *TAKATSUKI TA-274B @ $899*


----------



## Shini44

i ordered all the tubes for now to have them ready. also ordered Utopia, Susvara and Abyess Phi TC.  next will order WA33 EE JPS and wait for it big time. it will be a lot of fun. i will also be able to use WA33 as a pre-amp for RAAL's HSA-1b + SR1a

Veeeeeeeeerrry Excited


----------



## Adamtl

Shini44 said:


> i ordered all the tubes for now to have them ready. also ordered Utopia, Susvara and Abyess Phi TC.  next will order WA33 EE JPS and wait for it big time. it will be a lot of fun. i will also be able to use WA33 as a pre-amp for RAAL's HSA-1b + SR1a
> 
> Veeeeeeeeerrry Excited


Woa! Congrats. Sensation overload


----------



## Bonddam

Shini44 said:


> i ordered all the tubes for now to have them ready. also ordered Utopia, Susvara and Abyess Phi TC.  next will order WA33 EE JPS and wait for it big time. it will be a lot of fun. i will also be able to use WA33 as a pre-amp for RAAL's HSA-1b + SR1a
> 
> Veeeeeeeeerrry Excited


You forgot the Solitaire P.


----------



## Shini44

Bonddam said:


> You forgot the Solitaire P.


time to read about it for a future purchase hehe


----------



## Bonddam

Shini44 said:


> time to read about it for a future purchase hehe


I have two of them, which is due to my OCD problem so I'm keeping the new one that came in today and selling the one I got last month.


----------



## Shini44 (Feb 23, 2021)

Guess Who Ordered *WA33 Elite Edition + JPS Wiring *

KR 2a3 HP x4 + Takatsuki 274b + KR 274b set too  


i will go into tube rolling for sure as well after i get all of these :3

*Update*: added JPS XLR and JPS Power Cords to the order too lol.


----------



## Adamtl

You made a great purchase, what dac are you using?


----------



## Shini44

i am using Hugo TT2 + M-Scaler, i had Dave before at some point but honestly Hugo TT2 is more on the fun side since all i listen too is J-pop so it suits me more.


----------



## Adamtl

Def good enough, tt2 and m scaler with sbooster works wonders.


----------



## Bonddam

Tt2 is a bass machine


----------



## yagislav

Finally got myself a WA33, should be here in the next two weeks or so. What is everybodys favorite DAC to pair with the WA33?


----------



## Adamtl

yagislav said:


> Finally got myself a WA33, should be here in the next two weeks or so. What is everybodys favorite DAC to pair with the WA33?


I think Dave with m scaler is still one of the top options. Mola mola or dcs would be a similarly high end combo


----------



## JLoud

If your looking for something a little farther down the cost scale, the Schiit Yggdrasil is a nice choice. I have been very happy with it.


----------



## Roasty

yagislav said:


> Finally got myself a WA33, should be here in the next two weeks or so. What is everybodys favorite DAC to pair with the WA33?



Congrats! Which variant did u get?
As for dacs, I've only tried the Dave and Rockna Wavelight to the wa33. Both are good, but I am biased to the Rockna.. 
@Adamtl's suggestions are on my wishlist, but decided to try for a much cheaper dac/streamer option in the Okto dac8 stereo (haven't received this yet).


----------



## Shini44

Roasty said:


> Congrats! Which variant did u get?
> As for dacs, I've only tried the Dave and Rockna Wavelight to the wa33. Both are good, but I am biased to the Rockna..
> @Adamtl's suggestions are on my wishlist, but decided to try for a much cheaper dac/streamer option in the Okto dac8 stereo (haven't received this yet).


i would like to get DAVE again one day because its so smooth, kind of miss the ton of details/clarity on it but its been out for while, do you think DAVE 2 would happen one day?


----------



## pippen99

I have been using a PS Audio Directstream DAC with my WA33 EE.  A new Directstream is coming late in the year.  I have a DCS Rossini on order.  Currently waiting on more information about delivery.


----------



## Roasty

Shini44 said:


> i would like to get DAVE again one day because its so smooth, kind of miss the ton of details/clarity on it but its been out for while, do you think DAVE 2 would happen one day?



I did a comparison between the Dave and Rockna and they sounded "almost" identical (keeping in mind differences in interconnects, cords, peripheral components eg innuos phoenix, mscaler, Singxer). So for me personally it made sense to stick with the Rockna. Not sure about a Dave 2, but in any case for the price range of Dave, I feel perhaps other dacs may offer more for the money.


----------



## yagislav

Roasty said:


> Congrats! Which variant did u get?
> As for dacs, I've only tried the Dave and Rockna Wavelight to the wa33. Both are good, but I am biased to the Rockna..
> @Adamtl's suggestions are on my wishlist, but decided to try for a much cheaper dac/streamer option in the Okto dac8 stereo (haven't received this yet).


I got the Standard Edition in Silver. Going to try out the stock tubes first. I'm sure eventually ill want to upgrade tubes / to the Elite Edition / JPS Edition


----------



## Shini44 (Feb 24, 2021)

Clive101 said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I been a little silent for the past month or so as my new WA33 EE JPS has arrived
> and it was a bit of a saga.
> ...




i ended up getting PS 12 here since my voltage isn't stable , 220 to 230v here.


----------



## Clive101 (Feb 25, 2021)

Short Version

The EE is more susceptible to voltage swing than my SE version (SE version dead quite without voltage treatment other versions may differ)
I had no choice but to purchase a PS P15 or similar.
I guess this is because the EE is wired differently.
THIS is why you have a switch on the back to switch back and forth depending on the incoming voltage which is for me a pain in the a**.
Now dead quite with the P15.

Anyone with hum check the incoming voltage !


----------



## yagislav (Feb 25, 2021)

Do you guys mostly use the XLR balanced input into the WA33 or via RCA's? Reason I ask is because I plan on using either the TT2 or DAVE as a DAC and Chord recommends using the RCA outputs. Wondering if anybody has experience in testing whether the WA33 sounds better on RCA inputs or XLR inputs.


----------



## JLoud

The WA33 is a true balanced amp. So while the RCA input may sound fine, it will have to be converted to balanced in the amp. I prefer to run completely balanced if possible.


----------



## JLoud

I did try the RCA input to compare. The XLR seemed to have better detail and separation. Of course my DAC is a balanced design so that could be a factor.


----------



## Darkliner (Feb 25, 2021)

Sorry double post


----------



## Darkliner

yagislav said:


> Do you guys mostly use the XLR balanced input into the WA33 or via RCA's? Reason I ask is because I plan on using either the TT2 or DAVE as a DAC and Chord recommends using the RCA outputs. Wondering if anybody has experience in testing whether the WA33 sounds better on RCA inputs or XLR inputs.



I use RCA inputs into the WA33 with DAVE and MSCALER. WA33 sounds better on the RCA inputs from DAVE to my ears after i did the RCA vs XLR testing using the same grade of cables.


----------



## Bonddam

I’m using rca out of Cipher DAC and it sounds really good. I’ve ran balanced out of a TT2 and it was good as well


----------



## HiFiGuy528

yagislav said:


> Finally got myself a WA33, should be here in the next two weeks or so. What is everybodys favorite DAC to pair with the WA33?



Congratulations! Look forward to your pics and listening impressions.  

FWIW, we are using dCS Bartok DAC. A great pairing. Alternatively, the Sony HAP-ZH1ES music server is an exceptional piece at a low price but it's not a DAC.


----------



## Adamtl

In the case of Dave/wa33 the conversion is best done in Dave and connected using xlr. That goes for and dac that has xlr as well. Only use rca if that’s the only output on your dac.


----------



## ThanatosVI

HiFiGuy528 said:


> Congratulations! Look forward to your pics and listening impressions.
> 
> FWIW, we are using dCS Bartok DAC. A great pairing. Alternatively, the Sony HAP-ZH1ES music server is an exceptional piece at a low price but it's not a DAC.


dCS Bartok  + Woo Wa33 that's quite something!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Shini44 said:


> Guess Who Ordered *WA33 Elite Edition + JPS Wiring *
> 
> KR 2a3 HP x4 + Takatsuki 274b + KR 274b set too
> 
> ...



Nearly 15 years after I got my 2-channel system I upgraded to JPS power, XLR cables and speaker cables a month ago. Wow! the sound improvements were like I upgraded the entire system. What I was using was great but JPS is a few steps above in every way.


----------



## Ciggavelli

yagislav said:


> Do you guys mostly use the XLR balanced input into the WA33 or via RCA's? Reason I ask is because I plan on using either the TT2 or DAVE as a DAC and Chord recommends using the RCA outputs. Wondering if anybody has experience in testing whether the WA33 sounds better on RCA inputs or XLR inputs.


I use XLR from my DAVE to WA33. Somebody did a comparison somewhere on here (sorry, can’t remember exactly where), and the results seemed to say it sounds better out of the RCAs, but the difference was so minor, that it didn’t really matter. The WA33 is fully balanced, so I feel I want to preserve that by going XLR out of my DAVE


----------



## jlbrach

I dont believe the xlr out of the dave is actually fully balanced...it is a bit louder however...I think rob watts suggests the rca out is the better sounding option


----------



## Ciggavelli

jlbrach said:


> I dont believe the xlr out of the dave is actually fully balanced...it is a bit louder however...I think rob watts suggests the rca out is the better sounding option


I looked it up and you’re right. Now I’m curious about rca cables


----------



## Shini44

btw how long can i have the WA33 working for? since its tube based. from what i recall WA7 2nd gen (the cube) can work for 8 hours straight, then have to be turned off for 5-10 minutes for tubes to cool off. then turn on again for while.

i don't know if the same applies for WA33 though. especially that warming it up with low volume music takes like 15-30 minutes.


----------



## pippen99

I hope Mike will weigh in on this as I would also like to know.  I never listen for more than 2 hours at a time.  I always turn the amp off when not listening.  Still the thing is an absolute furnace.  I have considered buying a digital thermometer to measure the temp of the amp.  I wonder if Woo has ever measured the WA33 and would like to share?


----------



## joseph69

I usually have my WA33 turned on between 3-5hrs without issue.
5hr listening sessions are getting less and less, though.


----------



## Darkliner

Ciggavelli said:


> I looked it up and you’re right. Now I’m curious about rca cables


Try high fidelity cables out, i use them in my system and they are fantastic! Especially if you have tubes in the system.


----------



## Shini44

i am thinking about Buying DAVE Again, it really got the BEST Mids ever. yet for Fun and EDM, J-pop Hugo 2 TT does a better job honestly.  i guess i will try WA33 and go with Tubes rolling here and there, take ton of notes then go with DAVE.

btw how come no news on DAVE 2 , been years since DAVE been out haha, i can't imagine buying DAVE then they announce a new one xD


----------



## Lucky87

Shini44 said:


> i am thinking about Buying DAVE Again, it really got the BEST Mids ever. yet for Fun and EDM, J-pop Hugo 2 TT does a better job honestly.  i guess i will try WA33 and go with Tubes rolling here and there, take ton of notes then go with DAVE.
> 
> btw how come no news on DAVE 2 , been years since DAVE been out haha, i can't imagine buying DAVE then they announce a new one xD


Yeah the Dave MIDS are very precise which I like. But I was surprised at the Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 MIDS very nice as well but more forward.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Mar 3, 2021)

I just got the HD800 S delivered.  I had the HD800 before and sold it prior to getting either of my WA33s.  I have to say, the soundstage with the balanced headphone output is enormous....it's crazy.  I'm still wrapping my head around the other aspects of the HD 800 S, but the immense soundstage was noticeable immediately.  I don't remember the HD 800 headphones sounding like this at all before.  There are probably a lot of factors going on, but surely the WA33 EE JPS has something to do with this improvement


----------



## yagislav (Mar 3, 2021)

For the 1266TC, impedance on L and Level on H is the way?

Thank you


----------



## innocentblood

yagislav said:


> For the 1266TC, impedance on L and Level on H is the way?
> 
> Thank you


I am currently using the 1266TC and I was advised by JPS Labs to use L and L for both Impedance and Level and the listening volume should be around the 12 o’clock mark for normal listening.


----------



## Roasty

innocentblood said:


> I am currently using the 1266TC and I was advised by JPS Labs to use L and L for both Impedance and Level and the listening volume should be around the 12 o’clock mark for normal listening.



Those are the settings I use too. I seem to prefer all my headphones with low impedance and low gain on the wa33.


----------



## pippen99

I ran both my VO(300 ohm) and LCD-4(200ohm) at high impedance and low gain.  I thought both sounded better at high impedance. Different strokes.


----------



## JLoud

I run the TC at low impedance and high gain. The LCD4 high impedance and low gain. The Rad-0 at low impedance and low gain. Really can't hurt anything so just play around and see which you like better. I usually start with any headphone over 100 Ohms in high impedance and see how I like it.


----------



## koven

innocentblood said:


> I am currently using the 1266TC and I was advised by JPS Labs to use L and L for both Impedance and Level and the listening volume should be around the 12 o’clock mark for normal listening.



Hmm maybe I listen too loud but I am usually at 11 o'clock on H/H. I just tried 12 o'clock on L/L and it's way too quiet. This is with 5.8V DAC output. 
High impedance also sounds better than low to me for both TC and Susvara.


----------



## innocentblood

another thing I also depend on to decide my volume level on the WA33 with the 1266TC is the DR number as shown on Roon. for example, Alice Cooper's Detroit Stories album has a DR number of 3 (!) which means my volume is around the 10 to 11 O'Clock mark. I can push the volume to around the usual 12 O'Clock mark but I find that since the album is about 50mins long, by the time I get to the end of it, my ears feel kind of "tired" due to the louder than usual listening level.


----------



## Ciggavelli

koven said:


> Hmm maybe I listen too loud but I am usually at 11 o'clock on H/H. I just tried 12 o'clock on L/L and it's way too quiet. This is with 5.8V DAC output.
> High impedance also sounds better than low to me for both TC and Susvara.


I was at 10-11 o’clock when I was H/H too. With L/H I’m definitely at 11 o’clock. I’m gonna try L/L tomorrow and see where the volume goes to for the same loudness


----------



## yagislav

Anybody experiencing very quiet static / pop noises from the WA33 when no music is playing? Had my 1266TC on my head without music playing while browsing the web and started hearing little pop noises every 20 seconds or so. I thought maybe its the DAC so I tried setting the DAC to XLR output and then I also tried with RCA output (tried both inputs on WA33) and heard the same noises. So I thought ok it must be the DAC so I then turned the DAC off. So there should be no input into the WA33 but I am still hearing the pop noises. It is not too loud but definitely noticeable when no music is playing (silent). However with music playing its not audible for sure and don't even know if its occurring when music IS playing.


----------



## Roasty

yagislav said:


> Anybody experiencing very quiet static / pop noises from the WA33 when no music is playing? Had my 1266TC on my head without music playing while browsing the web and started hearing little pop noises every 20 seconds or so. I thought maybe its the DAC so I tried setting the DAC to XLR output and then I also tried with RCA output (tried both inputs on WA33) and heard the same noises. So I thought ok it must be the DAC so I then turned the DAC off. So there should be no input into the WA33 but I am still hearing the pop noises. It is not too loud but definitely noticeable when no music is playing (silent). However with music playing its not audible for sure and don't even know if its occurring when music IS playing.



Lol this has just started happening to me too. But mine is a bit more frequent maybe a regular interval of 5 to 6 seconds I hear a very faint "bop" sound in my right channel. 
Not sure if it's the tubes.. But it is super regular. Going to try swap out the tubes tonight and see if it persists.


----------



## pippen99

I think there is something in the air.  Today mine started making a sputtering static noise in the right channel intermittently.  I thought it was the new KR 274B I just got Monday.  By the time I had got done switching things around it turned out to be one of my EML 300B 2.5V power tubes.  Four weeks ago my Tak 274B roasted itself after 13 months(12 month warranty of course).  I am sick and tired of vacuum tubes at the moment.  Has anybody here filed a warranty claim with EML?  The EML website has a fine description of the warranty and how to register but no procedure for filing a claim.  Do you have to go through JACMUSIC?  I have had communication issues with them before.  Maybe this is a sign I should have stuck with SS.


----------



## Roasty

pippen99 said:


> it turned out to be one of my EML 300B 2.5V power tubes.



Yea I'm using the same tubes and i think they're the cause of some of the pops and occasional crackles.. Going to try swap back to the KR 2a3 tubes and see how I like it.






Moved the wa33 into the room for a bit to see if there was any change to the pops.. Nope. Still there. Just for kicks, hooked it up to the AMB Gamma2 dac. Lol this small little dac does the job pretty well. I'm digging the sound from its rca out into the wa33. Not bad for a 300 buck more than a decade old purchase. Kinda makes me wonder why I bother to spend more on a dac..


----------



## pippen99

I popped my EML 2A3 Mesh back in and no more noise.  I know exactly which tube is bad.  Now it remains to be seen if I get any help from EML.

I don't need to hear about great sounding $300 DACs.  I have a DCS Rossini on order.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Roasty said:


> Yea I'm using the same tubes and i think they're the cause of some of the pops and occasional crackles.. Going to try swap back to the KR 2a3 tubes and see how I like it.
> 
> 
> 
> Moved the wa33 into the room for a bit to see if there was any change to the pops.. Nope. Still there. Just for kicks, hooked it up to the AMB Gamma2 dac. Lol this small little dac does the job pretty well. I'm digging the sound from its rca out into the wa33. Not bad for a 300 buck more than a decade old purchase. Kinda makes me wonder why I bother to spend more on a dac..


What is that rack?
Looks decent


----------



## Ciggavelli (Mar 5, 2021)

I tried Low/Low all day today. It sounded good, and I liked the bass texture. I put it at 12 o’clock and it’s definitely a good volume level. If I go higher, it’s gets to be too loud


----------



## Roasty

ThanatosVI said:


> What is that rack?
> Looks decent



It's a Monoprice Monolith 4 tier stand. Cheap and does the job.


----------



## joseph69

pippen99 said:


> I think there is something in the air.  Today mine started making a sputtering static noise in the right channel intermittently.  I thought it was the new KR 274B I just got Monday.  By the time I had got done switching things around it turned out to be one of my EML 300B 2.5V power tubes.  Four weeks ago my Tak 274B roasted itself after 13 months(12 month warranty of course).  I am sick and tired of vacuum tubes at the moment.  Has anybody here filed a warranty claim with EML?  The EML website has a fine description of the warranty and how to register but no procedure for filing a claim.  Do you have to go through JACMUSIC?  I have had communication issues with them before.  Maybe this is a sign I should have stuck with SS.


I see you're located in Indiana, so just curious why you didn't go with TubesUSA and deal with George Lenz instead of going overseas?
When I had my previous WA33 one of my EML 2A3's went bad in about 3wks time and I had absolutely no issue whatsoever getting another matched pair from George after he tested the bad tube.


----------



## pippen99

Even with overseas shipping the price was considerably cheaper.  JAC is part owner of EML and it seemed advantageous to deal directly with the owner and distributor.  Some people I trust reported favorably on their experience with JAC.  Mine not so much.


----------



## pippen99

And now for the last two hours the 300Bs have been quiet.  I think I hate tubes!


----------



## Roasty

pippen99 said:


> And now for the last two hours the 300Bs have been quiet.  I think I hate tubes!



Dude.. The soft pops in mine have just disappeared too..!


----------



## pippen99

We’re you able to isolate it to a single tube as I did?


----------



## Roasty

Yep I know which tube it is. I moved it to the other side and the pop moved to the opposite channel accordingly.


----------



## pippen99

Exactly.  I rarely listen more than 1 1/2 hr at a time but today I have let it run a couple of 3-4 hr stints.  I do not know why this would make a difference as mine are well broken in with at least 800 hrs on them.


----------



## joseph69

pippen99 said:


> Even with overseas shipping the price was considerably cheaper.  JAC is part owner of EML and it seemed advantageous to deal directly with the owner and distributor.  Some people I trust reported favorably on their experience with JAC.  Mine not so much.


Yes, I know JAC is an owner / distributer  but TubesUSA is located in Long Island, NY and George is a great guy to deal with. 
I also received my tubes the next day being I'm located in Staten Island, NY. I'm sure you'll be fine with the warranty.



pippen99 said:


> And now for the last two hours the 300Bs have been quiet.  I think I hate tubes!





Roasty said:


> Dude.. The soft pops in mine have just disappeared too..!


Are you two guys together puffing or something?


----------



## pippen99

I got my biweekly infusion yesterday.  Maybe they slipped something extra in.


----------



## audiofest2018

I got all my EML tubes from George @ TubeUSA.  He is a great guys to work with.  When my WA33 elite unit transformer blown last year (many thanks to Mike from Woo to help me take care of it immediately), George offer to test my EML 300B tubes and perform extra burn-in for me...  He even called me to explain what he found.  We stayed on the phone for close to 45 minutes and he was just patient and answer all my questions.  A great guy to work with!


----------



## audiofest2018

Also I wonder if the puffing sound we heard is related to mesh plate burning process?  Anyone with solid plate have the similar experience? I only hear it when use sensitive headphone like Utopia but not Susvara or Abby 1266 TC.  They don't come very often but when they do it could persist for a while.  In my case they usually do away the next day during my listen session.
@pippen99  totally hear you about how you feel about tubes!   Dealing with tube amp is like having a love hate relationship with someone.  There are days you just love them but there are days you just wonder why are they doing this to you?  Good luck!


----------



## pippen99

My 300Bs are solid plate.  I experienced a bubbling sound with my 2A3 Mesh.  I likened the sound to an old outboard motor running.  The sound was intermittent and gradually dissipated as the tubes got older.  This now makes me wary of EML but I am already to far down this hole.


----------



## joseph69

audiofest2018 said:


> Also I wonder if the puffing sound we heard is related to mesh plate burning process? Anyone with solid plate have the similar experience?


The "puffing" was a joke by me to both, @pippen99 & @Roasty because they were both hearing the same noises with their tubes, then the noises went away for both of them at the same time.
I currently run the solid plate EML 2A3's in my WA33 and have in the past as well with my prior WA33 without any noise issues whatsoever.


----------



## JLoud

I’ve used EML tubes in my WA6SE, WA5LE and now WA33 with no issues. I do get the occasional ping or pop but I think that is just tubes heating up and such.


----------



## Shini44

so guys fast Tube rerolling questions. if i want a fun trubes that are good for J-pop and EDM. what would be the perfect tubes setup? 

and also what is the most Euphonic setup as well while we are at it? for when i am in a mood for it hehe


----------



## Darkliner

I like all kr hp tubes with abyss tc


----------



## Bonddam

Darkliner said:


> I like all kr hp tubes with abyss tc


I'm using the full array of totl tubes and love the KR sound. During warm up the tubes let through hum on headphones like Empyrean. The 1266 is quite. I'm surprised the KR have really good bass. When I opened them I was thinking these wouldn't have the bass of Psvane acme tubes but they do.


----------



## OceanRanger

Reading your posts about the WA33 leaves me so tempted.....


----------



## Clive101

Roasty said:


> Thanks for that input!
> Placed and order today at a local shop and got it delivered in a half hour.
> 
> 
> ...


Hello Roasty,
Please can you let us know how that orange fuse sounds ?
Thanks


----------



## Roasty

Clive101 said:


> Hello Roasty,
> Please can you let us know how that orange fuse sounds ?
> Thanks



I totally forgot I had it in there!
Added a clock to my sotm streamer recently. 
Give me a few more days. Will try and swap back the original fuse and have a listen this weekend.


----------



## Bonddam

OceanRanger said:


> Reading your posts about the WA33 leaves me so tempted.....


You have to find right tubes. I got the expensive KR tubes but like the cheaper Psvane acme tubes. Now KR are still brand new only 5 hours of use. The Psvane sound more ss and KR are more warmth and lush. So I think it's genre related.


----------



## Shini44

Bonddam said:


> You have to find right tubes. I got the expensive KR tubes but like the cheaper Psvane acme tubes. Now KR are still brand new only 5 hours of use. The Psvane sound more ss and KR are more warmth and lush. So I think it's genre related.


are you talking about the Psvane ACME 2A3?


----------



## Bonddam

Shini44 said:


> are you talking about the Psvane ACME 2A3?


Yes


----------



## Shini44

didn't know it sounds more SS than KR Tubes. now i must get them as i tend to listen to J-pop/EDM  a lot xD  that being said KR Tubes are good for Bass when i feel it.

what about the Takatsuki, what does it sound like? in between these two? or even warmer than KR?


----------



## jonathan c

Clive101 said:


> Hello Roasty,
> Please can you let us know how that orange fuse sounds ?
> Thanks


I have been a long-time user of SR fuses: from the Blue to the Orange (that upgrade made a little over a year ago). I put the SROs in the Audiolab 6000CDT, Woo WA3, Woo WA6, external power supply for Liquid Platinum. [I did not put one in the DAC because of its very robust build.] What the SROs deliver for me is: greater dynamic range, cleaning/tightening of mid bass response, more ambience recovery with more natural decay.


----------



## Bonddam

Shini44 said:


> didn't know it sounds more SS than KR Tubes. now i must get them as i tend to listen to J-pop/EDM  a lot xD  that being said KR Tubes are good for Bass when i feel it.
> 
> what about the Takatsuki, what does it sound like? in between these two? or even warmer than KR?


The genre I listen to is edm


----------



## joseph69

Shini44 said:


> What about the Takatsuki, what does it sound like? in between these two? or even warmer than KR?


Takatsuki only makes a 300B power tube, as well as rectifier tubes, no 2A3's as far as I'm aware.


----------



## RONJA MESCO

Roasty said:


> Yea I'm using the same tubes and i think they're the cause of some of the pops and occasional crackles.. Going to try swap back to the KR 2a3 tubes and see how I like it.
> 
> 
> 
> Moved the wa33 into the room for a bit to see if there was any change to the pops.. Nope. Still there. Just for kicks, hooked it up to the AMB Gamma2 dac. Lol this small little dac does the job pretty well. I'm digging the sound from its rca out into the wa33. Not bad for a 300 buck more than a decade old purchase. Kinda makes me wonder why I bother to spend more on a dac..


What an amazing piece of kit. I need to get into Woo sometime soon.


----------



## Shini44

joseph69 said:


> Takatsuki only makes a 300B power tube, as well as rectifier tubes, no 2A3's as far as I'm aware.


Yes I mean that one which is in the middle of wa33 and so is kr one.


----------



## Roasty

Shini44 said:


> Yes I mean that one which is in the middle of wa33 and so is kr one.



Tak274b and KR 274b rectifiers


----------



## Shini44

Roasty said:


> Tak274b and KR 274b rectifiers


Yup these xD any sound different between these?


----------



## Roasty

Shini44 said:


> Yup these xD any sound different between these?



Yea I thought the TAK sounded smoother and more laid back but I think someone else posted recently and heard the opposite.


----------



## JLoud

I had the EML 5U4G and went to the Tak. I think the Tak has the big sound stage of the EML but also seems faster. Minor but nice upgrade for me.


----------



## Bonddam

Last night I was enjoying the KR 2A3. So either they needed a little cooking time or my state of mine was different. Tonight, see what happens.


----------



## Bonddam

Anyone interested in my KR 2A3 quad? I’m not sold on them. Too warm for my tastes. There not dull in upper frequencies. I got them last Friday from Woo. I like a tube sound that mimics the solid state tube sound of Wells HeadTrip. The only headphone I like the KR 2A3 with is 1266 TC.


----------



## corbin1

I've been eyeing this thread for quite some time, curent owner of a WA5 Gen 1.  To be honest I absolutely love it but you know how the upgrade thing goes.  Can anyone provide a direct comparison of the WA33 to the WA5?  My sense is it comes down to "Balanced versus Unbalanced" and "300b versus 2A3".  I've read reviews on the 300b versus 2A3,  seem to be a lot of fans in each camp.  Not so much that one is a dramatic improvement over the other, more that some prefer the sound signature of one over the other all else being equal.  I'd love to hear some thoughts / impressions.  Owning both isn't really a viable option and I'd rather just own one headphone amp and use the heck out of it anyway...    Thanks


----------



## ThanatosVI

corbin1 said:


> I've been eyeing this thread for quite some time, curent owner of a WA5 Gen 1.  To be honest I absolutely love it but you know how the upgrade thing goes.  Can anyone provide a direct comparison of the WA33 to the WA5?  My sense is it comes down to "Balanced versus Unbalanced" and "300b versus 2A3".  I've read reviews on the 300b versus 2A3,  seem to be a lot of fans in each camp.  Not so much that one is a dramatic improvement over the other, more that some prefer the sound signature of one over the other all else being equal.  I'd love to hear some thoughts / impressions.  Owning both isn't really a viable option and I'd rather just own one headphone amp and use the heck out of it anyway...    Thanks


Well the 2A3 vs 300B shouldn't be an issue.
The Wa33 handles both, so you can use whatever you prefer.


----------



## corbin1

Thanks for that,  I had no idea.  Very interesting.   Learned something new already.  Still be very interested to hear general thoughts as to a direct comparison.  

I wonder if that means the WA5 will accept 2A3 tubes?  Thanks


----------



## Roasty

corbin1 said:


> Thanks for that,  I had no idea.  Very interesting.   Learned something new already.  Still be very interested to hear general thoughts as to a direct comparison.
> 
> I wonder if that means the WA5 will accept 2A3 tubes?  Thanks



WA33 only accepts 300b 2.5v variant ie a 300b tube with 2a3 heater. It is a 2a3 replacement. It doesn't accept normal 300b tubes.


----------



## corbin1

Roasty said:


> WA33 only accepts 300b 2.5v variant ie a 300b tube with 2a3 heater. It is a 2a3 replacement. It doesn't accept normal 300b tubes.



Thanks, the plot thickens.  So that seems to take  me back to my original 300b versus 2A3 question being in the mix.  I gues what I'm really hoping for is someone who owned a WA5 and sold it to buy a WA33 and thinks it's the best thing they ever did or if  in hindsight they regretted it on some level.  That it was more of a lateral move.


----------



## JLoud

Well I sold my WA5le to buy a WA33, so I guess I qualify. 😉 I would sum up the difference as being the WA33 is like a good SS amp with the benefits of tubes. It has the great sound stage of the 5 and the smooth treble but it is faster and bass hits harder. Is it twice as good? Of course not, at this level improvements are much smaller. 
I am happy with the upgrade and glad I did it. A bonus is the WA33 is also a very good preamplifier.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Roasty said:


> WA33 only accepts 300b 2.5v variant ie a 300b tube with 2a3 heater. It is a 2a3 replacement. It doesn't accept normal 300b tubes.


I didn't know that, thanks for clarifying


----------



## pippen99

JLoud beat me to almost the exact comment I was preparing to make.  I had a Gen 1 WA5 used only for headphones never for speakers.  The WA5 is incredibly smooth and warm for all music.  It hits hard but the WA33 hits harder and is more resolving.  This may not be what I really want to get across but if you never heard any other amps the WA5 in comparison to the WA33 would come across as kind of a warm blanket on a cold night even a wee bit gooey.  Of course the WA5 is anything but gooey compared to other amps.  The WA33 is just that more clean and clear.


----------



## corbin1

pippen99 said:


> JLoud beat me to almost the exact comment I was preparing to make.  I had a Gen 1 WA5 used only for headphones never for speakers.  The WA5 is incredibly smooth and warm for all music.  It hits hard but the WA33 hits harder and is more resolving.  This may not be what I really want to get across but if you never heard any other amps the WA5 in comparison to the WA33 would come across as kind of a warm blanket on a cold night even a wee bit gooey.  Of course the WA5 is anything but gooey compared to other amps.  The WA33 is just that more clean and clear.




Interesting, thanks.  I have a McIntosh MHA-150 that I either use as a DAC to stream to the WA5 or use by itself.  I had the MHA-150 before I bought the WA5.  My thought was best of both worlds,  I could go either way I wanted,  but either way take advantage of what is considered to be the very fine DAC in the 150'.  Since the WA33 is described as a solid state like tube amp with all the benefits of tubes whereas the Mac MHA150 is described as being as solid state amp that sounds like a tube amp it's kind of fascinating.  Makes me think there are two viable options.  Sell the WA5 and MHA150 to finance  a WA33 or just stay status quo and enjoy what I have  in whichever configuation strikes my mood.  That's another  direct comparison I'd love to hear about, WA33 versus MHA150.  I know McIntosh is pretty polarizing, people seem to love Mac or hate Mac...
I will say that it's pretty cool looking at the WA5 in a dark room with the tubes lit up with the Mac next to it  with the blue meters bobbing...


----------



## Bonddam

WA33 Elite with the KR tubes need a DAC that isn't too smooth. The Wells Audio Cipher is too smooth for the KR combination but great with ACME combo. I put my Burson Conductor 3XR as the WA33 DAC and with the KR it's just right. So I was loosing bite and energy in the music.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Bonddam said:


> WA33 Elite with the KR tubes need a DAC that isn't too smooth. The Wells Audio Cipher is too smooth for the KR combination but great with ACME combo. I put my Burson Conductor 3XR as the WA33 DAC and with the KR it's just right. So I was loosing bite and energy in the music.


Yeah, related to that, I think that’s why the DAVE pairs so well with the WA33. The DAVE is “clinical,” but mix it with the WA33 and it sounds great. Though, the DAVE is getting older now and my eyes are wondering.


----------



## Bonddam

Ciggavelli said:


> Yeah, related to that, I think that’s why the DAVE pairs so well with the WA33. The DAVE is “clinical,” but mix it with the WA33 and it sounds great. Though, the DAVE is getting older now and my eyes are wondering.


The tt2 was good pairing when I had it. I'm praying the Holo May is good with it.


----------



## Bonddam

Think I posted here that I thought my wa3$ took a dump. Turns out one of those pesky ACME tubes developed a crazy attribute when turning on the system. I didn't know a bad tube could work. I get this amazing distortion pops scratches then after that's over tiny little pop's you can hear when music stops. Good thing I have other tubes.


----------



## Clive101 (Mar 17, 2021)

Those that are getting bored with the Dave I say this .....
Sean Jacobs DC4


----------



## Ciggavelli (Mar 17, 2021)

Clive101 said:


> Those that are getting bored with the Dave I say this .....
> Sean Jacobs DC4


I’ve gone back and forth about the DC4. On one hand, it should make the DAVE sound better. On the other hand, is it wise to pay $7500 to improve a DAC that is almost certainly near the end of its life?  Would it make more sense to use that money to get a newer DAC like the Mola Mola Tambaqui or dCS Bartok or Rossini?

Every week I come to different conclusions. At this moment now, I’m leaning toward buying the Mola Mola Tambaqui over the DC4.


----------



## pippen99

I chose to go with the DCS Rossini.  I am now 6 weeks out from the order date with a promise of "imminent shipment".  Because of the long (and getting longer) wait my dealer shot me an offer on the Rossini Clock I couldn't refuse.  I had planned to wait on the Clock until next year but I am not getting any younger.


----------



## jlbrach

the dave is still as good as anything out there in its price range and beyond..there might be different but it is hard to suggest the dave isnt among the very best and probably will be for years to come


----------



## ThanatosVI

pippen99 said:


> I chose to go with the DCS Rossini.  I am now 6 weeks out from the order date with a promise of "imminent shipment".  Because of the long (and getting longer) wait my dealer shot me an offer on the Rossini Clock I couldn't refuse.  I had planned to wait on the Clock until next year but I am not getting any younger.


Gotta love offers like these!


----------



## jlbrach

none of us are!


----------



## SuperBurrito

pippen99 said:


> I chose to go with the DCS Rossini.  I am now 6 weeks out from the order date with a promise of "imminent shipment".  Because of the long (and getting longer) wait my dealer shot me an offer on the Rossini Clock I couldn't refuse.  I had planned to wait on the Clock until next year but I am not getting any younger.


Excellent choice.  I've been enjoying my Rossini since December.  I love that the best/recommended audio connection is a cheap unshielded ethernet cable, and that it's a Roon endpoint.  So it actually saves money that you don't need fancy USB decrapifiers, cables and a music server.
I'll check out the clock soon.


----------



## pippen99

I am sure I will enjoy it once it finally shows up.  The original delivery estimate was 2-3 weeks.  I don't blame my dealer as the estimate was given to me by the DCS Americas Sales Manager.  Besides being an obvious upgrade one of the deciding factors was being able to consolidate three units(Streamer with PSU and DAC) into one.


----------



## Roasty

Didn't have a good impression of the WA33 as a pre.. But for some reason or another I decided to give it another go. 

Swapped out some cables and tried the TWL Digital power cord and Cardas Clear Reflection XLR into the Apollon power amp. Using an Arctic Cables Palladium speaker tap adaptor. 

Not sure if it is the cable swaps or having run in the power amp recently, but I really don't remember it sounding so good. Previously I was getting really stringent constrained sound and lack of low end. Treble was a pain.. But it sounds very smooth now and there is definitely no shortage of bass or sub-bass. 

Perhaps my evaluation of the wa33 as a pre was premature.


----------



## mammal

What’s the consensus on WA33 Standard Edition + JPS wiring with all upgraded (maxed out) tubes, vs WA33 Elite Edition without upgraded tubes, as it kinda adds up to the same cost?


----------



## littlej0e (Mar 21, 2021)

Roasty said:


> Didn't have a good impression of the WA33 as a pre.. But for some reason or another I decided to give it another go.
> 
> Swapped out some cables and tried the TWL Digital power cord and Cardas Clear Reflection XLR into the Apollon power amp. Using an Arctic Cables Palladium speaker tap adaptor.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the insight, Roasty! Quite helpful for me personally as I'm planning to use the WA33 as a preamp too.

Truly beautiful set up by the way. Love the all black look. Very sleek...


----------



## pippen99

Does anybody know the input sensitivity of the WA33?  I can't find it in the specifications on the Woo website or in any review.  I have a new DAC ordered which has balanced output of 0.2V, 0.6V, 2.0V, or 6.0V.  My current DAC has an output of 2.8V.  For those of you with DAC's with different options for output, what are you using?


----------



## Adamtl

2v unbalanced and 4v balanced so if your dac uses 2v unbalanced use that. Side note, a dacs balanced output is almost always double the unbalanced, are you sure your dac is 2v/6v?


----------



## mammal

Adamtl said:


> are you sure your dac is 2v/6v?


Those are the options with dCS dacs


----------



## Adamtl

Oh! Ok so use 2v rca.


----------



## Adamtl

Also for what it’s worth many ppl here with a Dave use it balanced at 6v in dac mode with seemingly no problems so if you want to run your dcs balanced at 6v go ahead.


----------



## pippen99

You are correct when saying the balanced output is usually twice the unbalanced.  The DCS website does not specifically state the output values are for balanced or unbalanced.  They state the values are electronically balanced and floating(whatever that means).


----------



## Adamtl

Right so you have to set it to 2v and use rca or set it to 6v and use xlr.


----------



## yagislav

I had a similar question. I have a Auralic Altair G1 Streamer / DAC which outputs at 4.5VRms on BOTH RCA and XLR. It is a Auralic thing.

I prefer the WA33 in Low Impedance and High Gain, but with this DAC it is already very loud for me at 9 o'clock. I've read that the WA33 sounds best near the 12pm mark.

In the Auralic DAC settings I can actually lower the output level by -6dB which is essentially half of 4.5Vrms. By doing so it allows me to up the volume to 12pm on the WA33 and not be too loud.

My question is, SQ wise, would it be better to lower the DAC output by -6dB to get the WA33 to play comfortable levels at 12pm or keep the DAC at 4.5Vrms and WA33 at around 9am?


----------



## Roasty (Mar 21, 2021)

@yagislav

Probably better to lower the dac output and have the wa33 at 12 o'clock. I have asked Mike at Woo about this before and this was his reply about anything above 4v: "Anything beyond that will "clip" the input of any amplifier causing distortion in the sound."

*edit

I have tried my dac at full internal volume and xlr output (5.8vrms) to a wa33 and I get too much emphasis on treble and the mids and bass get all sucked out. 

However at the same time, ive tried chord Dave at full internal volume (xlr 6.3vrms) to a wa33 and it sounds fine. 

I assume the attenuation in the dac plays a part (wavelight is +8dB gain and Dave is - 6dB gain) but I'm not sure.


----------



## Roasty

littlej0e said:


> Thanks for the insight, Roasty! Quite helpful for me personally as I'm planning to use the WA33 as a preamp too.
> 
> Truly beautiful set up by the way. Love the all black look. Very sleek...



Thanks man. Keeping it all black has been tough as there are some components I like which only come in silver... Oh well. 

By the way, you have a great list of gear man! How do you feed your WA33 using the pareto custom? It has analog out?


----------



## Ciggavelli

Ever since the controversy of the DAVE dac volume, I put it to -6db.  I put the WA33 at 12o'clock low/low with the TCs and 10o'clock-ish low/high with the Susvaras.  I never had problems with clipping on the DAVE in pre-amp mode before, but I guess it's better to be safe than sorry.


----------



## littlej0e (Mar 21, 2021)

Roasty said:


> Thanks man. Keeping it all black has been tough as there are some components I like which only come in silver... Oh well.
> 
> By the way, you have a great list of gear man! How do you feed your WA33 using the pareto custom? It has analog out?



Nah, you made the right call. Black is where it's at! So much easier to add, change, or delete the decor around it based on WAF. I went the exact same route.

Thanks! I can't wait until I receive everything and get it all set up. I expect I won't see the light of day for a while when I finally do...

The Pareto server is quite interesting. It will connect to my Holo May DAC via USB-A to USB-B, then the DAC will connect to the WA33 normally via XLR. But Pareto added a bunch of custom "cool sauce" features and connectivity options. For example, my design includes:

Modular design with a fully external power supply. I'm going with an HDplex to start with, but I can upgrade to a Sean Jacobs, Paul Haynes, etc. whenever I wish. Plug and play.
4 port PCIE SFP+ fiber NIC
Expandable NVME storage
2.4 and 5 GHz Wifi
Custom BIOS/firmware, CPU clamping, Linux tweaks, shielding, etc., etc. to limit interference, maintain SQ, and provide upscaled content to multiple endpoints at the same time. The last one is a particularly big deal for me. Seems most higher-end streamers have gimped CPUs and can't do this.
Multiple USB-to-fiber network converters that will serve as distributed Roon interface endpoints. These will ride my 10 gig fiber backbone to avoid noisy copper ethernet or wifi signals to maintain end-to-end SQ across the network.
If the Pareto 80/20 mantra is legit ("we aim to deliver a system with 80% or more of the sound quality of a "cost is no object" solution at 20% of the price"), I should be getting a server/streamer that is capable of producing similar SQ as a server in the the $40,000 price range. We shall see. Even if it doesn't, it is incredibly nice to have a boatload  of custom options, especially the built-in fiber connectivity. The value here is staggering. I hope the SQ is too...


----------



## Roasty

littlej0e said:


> Nah, you made the right call. Black is where it's at! So much easier to add, change, or delete the decor around it based on WAF. I went the exact same route.
> 
> Thanks! I can't wait until I receive everything and get it all set up. I expect I won't see the light of day for a while when I finally do...
> 
> ...



That sounds pretty awesome. I visited the pareto website after someone else mentioned it but it is pretty spartan and I assume most of the customization is done over the phone. 

Holo May to WA33 elite jps sounds endgame to me!


----------



## littlej0e (Mar 22, 2021)

Roasty said:


> That sounds pretty awesome. I visited the pareto website after someone else mentioned it but it is pretty spartan and I assume most of the customization is done over the phone.
> 
> Holo May to WA33 elite jps sounds endgame to me!



Spot on. The website is indeed quite spartan. I discovered that Pareto is actually a one-man operation run by a ridiculously smart (and fairly well connected) ex-Wallstreet IT/Software Engineer named Larry. He starts with a 1hr phone consultation and asks a ton of questions to learn about you, your system, your needs, expectations, etc. Then he gives you three "good, better, best" base options to use as a starting point. Then you work with him to build out exactly what you want. Easy peazy. He offers a 1 year warranty, up to 8 hours of installation support, and free software upgrades. Again, ridiculous value here.

All of this is great, but I want to hear how it actually performs against the Aurenders, Antipodes, and Innuoses of the world. If the folks over at audiophilestyle are any indication, this will likely turn out quite well.

I hope you are right about the May + WA33 combo. I actually don't think the May will balance the WA33 particularly well. Based on my research, it will likely add a little more of what the WA33 does well, then shoot it with steroids. This is actually perfect for my use case and exactly why I chose it. Will be interesting to find out!


----------



## SuperBurrito

pippen99 said:


> Does anybody know the input sensitivity of the WA33?  I can't find it in the specifications on the Woo website or in any review.  I have a new DAC ordered which has balanced output of 0.2V, 0.6V, 2.0V, or 6.0V.  My current DAC has an output of 2.8V.  For those of you with DAC's with different options for output, what are you using?


Most people on the DCS forums say the 6.0V sounds better than 2.0V.  But that's the beauty of DCS.  Just change the output voltage in the app and see which sounds best.


----------



## Adamtl

Yes but don’t ever use 6v with rca you will damage something.


----------



## Roasty

the 300b 2.5v are acting up again. the puff/faint pop sound has returned, and is audible even with my susvara and 1266.
have gotten in touch with Jac @ jacmusic and i'm sending one pair (with the affected tube) of the quads back to him. i hope he will just do a straight up swap for a new pair.

have swapped back to the KR 2a3 tubes and wow i'm quite missing the 300b mids and low end.


----------



## Symbiose

Does anyone here is using a lampizator tube dac with the WA33? or did used? How is the sound experience using the lamp with wa33?

For who didnt never used a lamp tube dac with the wa33 but have knowloadge in that question, be free to share your opinon about using a tube dac with a tube hp amp like the WA33.


----------



## pippen99

Roasty said:


> the 300b 2.5v are acting up again. the puff/faint pop sound has returned, and is audible even with my susvara and 1266.
> have gotten in touch with Jac @ jacmusic and i'm sending one pair (with the affected tube) of the quads back to him. i hope he will just do a straight up swap for a new pair.
> 
> have swapped back to the KR 2a3 tubes and wow i'm quite missing the 300b mids and low end.


Did Jac instruct you to send them back?  I emailed him and he responded that he would have to check the series number of the tube.  That communication took place on 03/08.  I nudged him on the 18th with no response yet.  This is the communication experience I had when there were shipping issues with my purchase of my 2A3 quad.


----------



## Roasty

pippen99 said:


> Did Jac instruct you to send them back?  I emailed him and he responded that he would have to check the series number of the tube.  That communication took place on 03/08.  I nudged him on the 18th with no response yet.  This is the communication experience I had when there were shipping issues with my purchase of my 2A3 quad.



I got in touch 2 days ago, and he emailed back yesterday and suggested either use the tubes some more and see if the issue goes away, or look into exchanging the tubes. 

I have been using these tubes since I got them so I figured no point in wasting more time and affecting my listening sessions. It's just an irritation and I wanna solve it as soon as I can so I offered to ship it back on my own cost. 

I just hope it gets swapped out for another pair. But I don't know if the return cost will be mine to bear. Will see how he addresses the situation since the tubes are under warranty anyways.


----------



## pippen99

I am the second owner of these but they were purchased originally in 06/2020 and registered for the 5 year warranty.  Nowhere on the EML website does it state the warranty is restricted to the original owner and implies that the warranty follows the tube irregardless of ownership(at least in my interpretation).  Did you purchase these directly from JacMusic?  I contacted the authorized dealer(TubesUSA) who passed me on to Jac.  Perhaps Jac just does not like me as my current and past attempts at communication have been very frustrating.  If I cannot get this resolved I will sell the three good ones for backups in any combination that someone wants them.  I will then wash my hands of Jac and EML at least until my 2A3s go bad and look for alternatives.


----------



## Roasty

pippen99 said:


> I am the second owner of these but they were purchased originally in 06/2020 and registered for the 5 year warranty.  Nowhere on the EML website does it state the warranty is restricted to the original owner and implies that the warranty follows the tube irregardless of ownership(at least in my interpretation).  Did you purchase these directly from JacMusic?  I contacted the authorized dealer(TubesUSA) who passed me on to Jac.  Perhaps Jac just does not like me as my current and past attempts at communication have been very frustrating.  If I cannot get this resolved I will sell the three good ones for backups in any combination that someone wants them.  I will then wash my hands of Jac and EML at least until my 2A3s go bad and look for alternatives.



I actually bought these from George at TubesUSA who then got Jac to send them to me. A bit of a run around.. 

Good luck with your 2a3 man.. Tubes lol.. Can't live with em can't live without em.


----------



## yagislav

Next to the 1266TC, what are your guys favorite headphone pairings with the WA33? I feel like I want to give the 800S, and the Utopia's another try since I now have the WA33 and didn't previously when I owned those headphones.


----------



## Adamtl

Zmf’s sound really good with the wa33.


----------



## JLoud

The LCD4 sounds fantastic on the WA33. The TC as well. Others have mentioned the Utopia.


----------



## pippen99

The LCD-4 is so good with the WA33 it is now my only headphone!


----------



## Bigsecret

Interesting to read of others experience dealing with JAC for EML tubes. I have had no luck at all get him to honor warranty on a tube. I bought pair of 300B 2.5 and after short while one tube started low level sputtering. Sometimes immediately on start up, other times after an hour or more listening. First JAC said I didn't register for warranty (I did). Then said they would replace but none in stock I have to wait for one to be made. That was September last year. No further response to my last 4 monthly emails. Great tubes - crappy distributor. I have another pair of EML 2A3 mesh with plenty of hours and absolutely no issues.


----------



## pippen99

Jac answered my first email with a deflection.  I nudged 8 days later.  I plan another nudge in 2 days(20 total).  I honestly do not expect a response.  I plan to eventually forward the email thread to George at TubesUSA to see his reaction to what kind of company he is repping.


----------



## littlej0e

Asking just for giggles...has anyone tried another amp they liked as well or better than the WA33 with the Abyss TCs?


----------



## littlej0e

pippen99 said:


> Jac answered my first email with a deflection.  I nudged 8 days later.  I plan another nudge in 2 days(20 total).  I honestly do not expect a response.  I plan to eventually forward the email thread to George at TubesUSA to see his reaction to what kind of company he is repping.


Thanks for the feedback. I have a WA33 EE JPS on the way and it's always good to know who _not_ to buy tubes from.


----------



## Bigsecret

pippen99 said:


> I am the second owner of these but they were purchased originally in 06/2020 and registered for the 5 year warranty.  Nowhere on the EML website does it state the warranty is restricted to the original owner and implies that the warranty follows the tube irregardless of ownership(at least in my interpretation).  Did you purchase these directly from JacMusic?  I contacted the authorized dealer(TubesUSA) who passed me on to Jac.  Perhaps Jac just does not like me as my current and past attempts at communication have been very frustrating.  If I cannot get this resolved I will sell the three good ones for backups in any combination that someone wants them.  I will then wash my hands of Jac and EML at least until my 2A3s go bad and look for alternatives.


I have had a similar situation with EML and Jac. Dealer I purchased from pushed me to Jac who agreed to replace a bad tube (300b 2.5) and then has shined me on ever since. Good sounding tubes and not likely to go bad (I have 2A3 mesh and 5U4G mesh with no problems). But, if you get a bad tube - warranty or no warranty - you are  out of luck. In my case I am original purchaser. Tube developed sputtering sounds after just less than a year. I registered for warranty on line when I purchased and then was told they had no record. I was able to confirm I was the original purchaser and the date of purchase and the seller so Jac said he would replace it. That was in September last year and since then he won't respond to any of my emails asking for update. If anyone thinks the EML warranty is worth anything - think again.


----------



## Bigsecret

At least I know someone else has had a bad experience. I just hope enough people read this that they aren't fooled by the warranty they offer. Their warranty appears to be useless.


----------



## pippen99

Fired off a new email on the 27th.  Now without a response for 23 days.  I plan an email every ten days until I get an answer or get bored.  I will update this forum as needed.


----------



## Bigsecret

pippen99 said:


> Fired off a new email on the 27th.  Now without a response for 23 days.  I plan an email every ten days until I get an answer or get bored.  I will update this forum as needed.


I've given up. I've had no response for 4 months with regular email inquiries. For those who want to buy an EML tube - good news: they are great sounding tubes and I've never had a problem until now; bad news: there is no actual warranty if you encounter a bad tube.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

We do not recommend using 300B (2.5v) tubes with WA33. 

We designed WA33 for 2A3 tubes, 300B tubes would impact the designed performance and noise-floor of the amplifier.


----------



## pippen99

I emailed Woo with this very question before I bought the EML 300B 2.5v.  Mike sidestepped the question and used the contact to try to sell the Psvane 2A3.  Apparently they're thoughts on the matter have evolved.


----------



## krt230

How big of a difference (percentage wise) does upgrading the tubes make do you think?  I'm running standard tubes now.


----------



## JLoud

I feel the tubes make a noticeable difference. Especially from stock to something like KR or EML tubes.


----------



## Ciggavelli

krt230 said:


> How big of a difference (percentage wise) does upgrading the tubes make do you think?  I'm running standard tubes now.


If I had to put a number on it, my upgraded tubes (see my signature) made a 25% improvement. Well worth it to me, but an expensive endeavor nonetheless


----------



## JLoud

The driver tubes make a nice improvement and are the most cost effective.


----------



## Clive101 (Apr 2, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> I’ve gone back and forth about the DC4. On one hand, it should make the DAVE sound better. On the other hand, is it wise to pay $7500 to improve a DAC that is almost certainly near the end of its life?  Would it make more sense to use that money to get a newer DAC like the Mola Mola Tambaqui or dCS Bartok or Rossini?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I had the same dilemma, but tried the DC4 on  30 days demo, made the purchase in 3 minutes.

Have you made a decision ?


----------



## joseph69

@Clive101 
If I'm correct, you're using the EML 300B (2.5v) power tubes in your WA33 with very good results for your tastes, right?


----------



## Clive101

joseph69 said:


> @Clive101
> If I'm correct, you're using the EML 300B (2.5v) power tubes in your WA33 with very good results for your tastes, right?


No, I have the Pasvane 2A3 acme and the KR Audio 2A3 in the WA33 EE JPS. Both different more bass slam with the KR where as the Pasvane more refined, like both but with the LCD4 I prefer the Pasvane. Other headphones will differ on personal choice/taste.


----------



## krt230

I have the WA33 standard tubes and using the HE1000se right now.  Neither one is really broken in yet, but the music sounds bright and fatiguing - any suggestions?


----------



## Ciggavelli

Clive101 said:


> I had the same dilemma, but tried the DC4 on  30 days demo, made the purchase in 3 minutes.
> 
> Have you made a decision ?


I haven't made a decision yet.  Though, your comment is definitely making me want the DC4 more now.


----------



## joseph69

krt230 said:


> I have the WA33 standard tubes and using the HE1000se right now.  Neither one is really broken in yet, but the music sounds bright and fatiguing - any suggestions?


Have patience for the tubes and headphones to burn in sufficiently,which they all will do.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Apr 3, 2021)

littlej0e said:


> Asking just for giggles...has anyone tried another amp they liked as well or better than the WA33 with the Abyss TCs?


When I sold my WA33 Standard and was waiting for my WA33 EE JPS to be made, my dealer let me borrow a Riviera AIC-10. It’s another ~$15K headphone amp. It was pretty nice and drove everything well (I think it is also 10w per channel). 

I’d say it’s maybe equal in sound quality with the WA33 Standard. However, I think the WA33 EE JPS is better. The AIC-10 got “fatigued” and muddy with very fast passages (like grindcore or death metal). I haven’t found that to happen with the WA33.

But, the AIC-10 and the Wells Audio Headtrip Level II (I haven’t heard it yet) are the two other amps you’ll see people comparing to the WA33.


----------



## Bonddam

It's bad when hum comes out of one channel and gets the big ignore. So guess I have to live with it. So when the music stops that's when you hear it. Amp sits to my right. So took off the pads of Empyrean and shoved the bleeping speaker up against my ear and could clearly hear it. Silent on right and hum on left. Now if it was both sides of be more excepting of it. I don't care that the amp makes noise I just don't want it coming through the headphone. Only headphone that doesn't do it is 1266. 15 grand? Me's pissed! I spent more then 30 grand with that company. Both wa33 standards I had no issues jump on ee and yeah.


----------



## carboncopy

Bonddam said:


> It's bad when hum comes out of one channel and gets the big ignore. So guess I have to live with it. So when the music stops that's when you hear it. Amp sits to my right. So took off the pads of Empyrean and shoved the bleeping speaker up against my ear and could clearly hear it. Silent on right and hum on left. Now if it was both sides of be more excepting of it. I don't care that the amp makes noise I just don't want it coming through the headphone. Only headphone that doesn't do it is 1266. 15 grand? Me's pissed! I spent more then 30 grand with that company. Both wa33 standards I had no issues jump on ee and yeah.


I feel you...I loved my Pathos Inpol Ear but it has a small noise with my Grados. In the end I had to let it go. It can not be, that my ipad is silent with them and big buck headamp not. Noise destroys the immersion for me. And only one side...must be extra irritating...


----------



## Bonddam

The volume set to zero and you hear it. If I sell it gotta tell person only use 1266.


----------



## JLoud

Have you swapped tubes around? And tried a different rectifier? That would bother me as well. I can hear a small amount on my Fostex but not my LCD4 or 1266. On my standard 33.


----------



## Bonddam

JLoud said:


> Have you swapped tubes around? And tried a different rectifier? That would bother me as well. I can hear a small amount on my Fostex but not my LCD4 or 1266. On my standard 33.


Lol swap I did more then swap I made love to the damn thing


----------



## Bonddam

I know they couldn't have done full inspection in 3 days unless they didn't build anything and I'm sure some tech put it on the bench and all was good. 3 days to check it out and they said they listens to it for 3 days which if they did means they played music well Ya I can't hear hum when playing music either. Who has to sit there for three days listening because that would suck.


----------



## Clive101

Bonddam said:


> I know they couldn't have done full inspection in 3 days unless they didn't build anything and I'm sure some tech put it on the bench and all was good. 3 days to check it out and they said they listens to it for 3 days which if they did means they played music well Ya I can't hear hum when playing music either. Who has to sit there for three days listening because that would suck.


Please check your incoming voltage, if out of spec you will get hum.
On the EE version mainly on the right hand channel.
On the standard WE no issue with the version I had, it was dead quite when in voltage range, in spec or out of spec still dead quite, other versions may be different.


----------



## Bonddam (Apr 3, 2021)

That's a design flaw. My background is in electronics installation in cars first thing I did was hook my dmm to the outlet. 119-122 was readings I took throughout the day.


----------



## Clive101

Yes, so you a have to buy a PS Audio 15 power regeneration unit or similar as I did, as the voltage  keep going out of spec.
In the manuel it shows how to change for the incoming voltage but as you play music it may change depening on your mains grid.
Never had this before with any audio equipment.
It seems to be more of an issue with the EE version.
I posted this a while ago on the thread.


----------



## Bonddam

Clive101 said:


> Yes, so you a have to buy a PS Audio 15 power regeneration unit or similar as I did, as the voltage  keep going out of spec.
> In the manuel it shows how to change for the incoming voltage but as you play music it may change depening on your mains grid.
> Never had this before with any audio equipment.
> It seems to be more of an issue with the EE version.
> I posted this a while ago on the thread.


Why except it? Have to buy 15 can't buy the Stellar 3?


----------



## Bonddam

To late bought the Stellar 3 guess I'm screwed.


----------



## Clive101 (Apr 3, 2021)

No the PS 3 is good does the same job but at the max amps for the WA33.
I went the extra mile and wanted no fans and extra headroom for additional equipment and the P15 was on discount.
You running 240 or 120 volts ?
Perhaps change your order.
.


----------



## Bonddam

I'm looking at Stellar it's next to me


----------



## Bonddam

Clive101 said:


> No the PS 3 is good does the same job but at the max amps for the WA33.
> I went the extra mile and wanted no fans and extra headroom for additional equipment and the P15 was on discount.
> You running 240 or 120 volts ?
> Perhaps change your order.
> .


I have 120


----------



## Bonddam

Stellar is 300 watts and wa33 sucks 150 which leaves me another 150 for my DAC. I only power on 1 amp 1 dac at a time. Laptop go straight into outlet.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Bonddam said:


> Stellar is 300 watts and wa33 sucks 150 which leaves me another 150 for my DAC. I only power on 1 amp 1 dac at a time. Laptop go straight into outlet.


Yeah stellar is enough. You could even put it on filter mode than it can deliver up to 900W.
However even 300 are plenty for headphone systems


----------



## musicman59

I have the same low hum noise on the left channel in my PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium HP.
I can only hear it with no music playing and with efficient headphones. I am sure is the transformer since I have replace all tubes and stay the same.
I even sent it back to Upscale Audio to be check and they claimed could not hear anything but I am not crazy and for sure I hear it. 
I tried another one at a local dealer and that one had no hum with my Utopia.


----------



## yagislav

Hi guys, thinking about upgrading my stock Sovtek 6C45 tubes to 4x EH gold pin tubes for my wa33 SE. What audible results can I expect this upgrade does for the sound?


----------



## Bonddam

yagislav said:


> Hi guys, thinking about upgrading my stock Sovtek 6C45 tubes to 4x EH gold pin tubes for my wa33 SE. What audible results can I expect this upgrade does for the sound?


I find smoother sound as main thing. It doesn't take it all the way if you have the stock power tubes. The biggest difference is power tubes. I have 4 sets of powers too choose from. For the money Psvane acme is a great upgrade to the sound. If you upgraded power then the drivers next logical choice. With my music only tube that doesn't do anything is rectifier.


----------



## yagislav

Bonddam said:


> I find smoother sound as main thing. It doesn't take it all the way if you have the stock power tubes. The biggest difference is power tubes. I have 4 sets of powers too choose from. For the money Psvane acme is a great upgrade to the sound. If you upgraded power then the drivers next logical choice. With my music only tube that doesn't do anything is rectifier.


Thanks for this. I havent upgraded any of the tubes yet. I just thought the driver's first as they are the lowest in cost.

Would you recommend I upgrade the power tubes first?


----------



## Bonddam

Psvane acme 2A3 good point


----------



## JLoud

I have and enjoy the EML 2A3.


----------



## pippen99

I too enjoy the sound of the EML 2A3 as long as you can live with the idea that the warranty is probably worthless.


----------



## Bonddam

Waiting for my EML 300B 2.5 mesh to shows up. EML 300B 2.5 solid was my favorite but not available anymore hope the mesh live up.


----------



## pippen99

Bonddam said:


> Waiting for my EML 300B 2.5 mesh to shows up. EML 300B 2.5 solid was my favorite but not available anymore hope the mesh live up.


I will trade you your old ones for the ones you have coming in.


----------



## Bonddam

pippen99 said:


> I too enjoy the sound of the EML 2A3 as long as you can live with the idea that the warranty is probably worthless.


The company owners sound like conspiracy people. They write about info getting stolen so they have no email or phone number. Also they work slower then usps. For some reason covid has caused the apocalypse on their mailing system.


----------



## Bonddam

I thought they broke and I'm not trading until I've had sometime on the mesh.


----------



## pippen99 (Apr 4, 2021)

Rats, you've been paying attention!


----------



## Bonddam

Lol


----------



## Ciggavelli

I’ve finally broken in my HD800s. I had the HD800 previously, but sold it due to redundancy and low bass.

I’ve been curious about trying the HD800 with my WA33 for a while, and supposedly the HD800S pair well with tube amps.

So I put on my HD800s this afternoon and plugged them into my WA33. Oh my, something clicked with me. The soundstage is crazy, the imaging is 20/20, and even the bass sounded good on acoustic and indie rock. The HD800S still doesn’t work with rap or EDM, but for just plain old rock music and indie rock, it sounds great. I put on Fiona Apple’s Fetch The Bolt Cutters, and I was amazed. The soundstage and imaging is just unbelievable.

I still prefer my other headphones over the HD800s, but the WA33 EE JPS really brought the HD800S to a new level.


----------



## pippen99

We have a little movement on the EML 300B warranty issue.  After 30 days of silence from Jac I fired off another email last night informing him I was shipping him the defective tube and its mate and to confirm the shipping address.  This morning I had an email confirming the shipping address and instructions on how to get the package through customs smoothly.  So off they go today (of course at my expense) to Germany.  Quite probably another 30 days(if at all) until something happens.  Roasty have your tubes made it to Germany yet and have you had a response?  Good luck to us all!


----------



## Roasty

pippen99 said:


> We have a little movement on the EML 300B warranty issue.  After 30 days of silence from Jac I fired off another email last night informing him I was shipping him the defective tube and its mate and to confirm the shipping address.  This morning I had an email confirming the shipping address and instructions on how to get the package through customs smoothly.  So off they go today (of course at my expense) to Germany.  Quite probably another 30 days(if at all) until something happens.  Roasty have your tubes made it to Germany yet and have you had a response?  Good luck to us all!



My tubes were sent at my own cost too. 
They were signed for by Jac last week. Have not heard from him since last week after I sent off the tubes. Sent him an email two days ago but not heard back. 

It'll be funny if he passes u my tubes and I get your tubes. Maybe we can share the serial numbers just in case hahaha I took pics!


----------



## pippen99

I took pics also and have recorded the serial #s.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Ciggavelli said:


> I’ve finally broken in my HD800s. I had the HD800 previously, but sold it due to redundancy and low bass.
> 
> I’ve been curious about trying the HD800 with my WA33 for a while, and supposedly the HD800S pair well with tube amps.
> 
> ...



Agreed! I was shocked by how amazing HD800S sounds with WA33. At $1600, it is a crazy value if you already have WA33. One of my favorite pairings.


----------



## makan

I have a standard version incoming in a couple of days. Woo Hoo!  Do any of you have sort of acrylic cover or cloth cover solution to protect the tubes from young children?


----------



## Roasty

makan said:


> I have a standard version incoming in a couple of days. Woo Hoo!  Do any of you have sort of acrylic cover or cloth cover solution to protect the tubes from young children?



I'm using a cover I got off ebay from a seller called s-covers.




I used a custom acrylic clear cover for my wa22. I had a cutout at the back to accommodate for the cables. Whichever you choose, just make sure u measure appropriately for the tallest tubes you have, and the stand/platform if u decided to use one.


----------



## makan (Apr 12, 2021)

Roasty said:


> I'm using a cover I got off ebay from a seller called s-covers.
> 
> 
> 
> I used a custom acrylic clear cover for my wa22. I had a cutout at the back to accommodate for the cables. Whichever you choose, just make sure u measure appropriately for the tallest tubes you have, and the stand/platform if u decided to use one.



Thanks. I saw that on eBay from Bulgaria. How tall is it exactly?  I assume has some clearance for the tallest tube. Do you prefer the cloth to the acrylic cover on your wa22. I guess with the acrylic one, you can admire the tubes or perhaps it will be too tempting for my kids to get their hands on them!


----------



## Roasty

makan said:


> Thanks. I saw that on eBay from Bulgaria. How tall is it exactly?  I assume has some clearance for the tallest tube. Do you prefer the cloth to the acrylic cover on your wa22. I guess with the acrylic one, you can admire the tubes or perhaps it will be too tempting for my kids to get their hands on them!



I can't remember the height, but I measured for my platform and EML 300b 2.5v tubes. 

I prefer the cloth cover. With the clear acrylic, yea its nice u can see the amp and tubes and all.. But when it gets dusty, and it will attract dust like crazy, it is quite a pain to wipe down. Also, if u wipe the dust away, micro scratches appear. When I used the acrylic cover, I got a custom cloth piece to drape over the cover as well...


----------



## littlej0e

Roasty said:


> I'm using a cover I got off ebay from a seller called s-covers.
> 
> 
> 
> I used a custom acrylic clear cover for my wa22. I had a cutout at the back to accommodate for the cables. Whichever you choose, just make sure u measure appropriately for the tallest tubes you have, and the stand/platform if u decided to use one.


Roasty...you’re a D@MN GENIUS!!! I was dreaming up engineering solutions to solve the kid/projectile problem and saw your post. Just ordered one. 

Thanks!


----------



## number1sixerfan

Ciggavelli said:


> I’ve finally broken in my HD800s. I had the HD800 previously, but sold it due to redundancy and low bass.
> 
> I’ve been curious about trying the HD800 with my WA33 for a while, and supposedly the HD800S pair well with tube amps.
> 
> ...



This was my exact experience as well. Truly enjoyed the HD800s out of the WA33. It's the best I've ever heard the HD800 or HD800s..although still not as good as the rest of the lot lol. But price wise, it's a huge bargain. If I didn't have the HE60 I absolutely would've kept them with the WA33 no question.


----------



## Bonddam (Apr 15, 2021)

My amp came back fixed. Finally got my EML300'S. Sounds really good. I had a out of spec transformer.


----------



## JLoud

Good to hear. Although I was kind of hoping you would get tired of it and put it up for sale.  
All kidding aside I'm glad they took care of the issue.


----------



## yagislav

Is it ok to have two pairs of headphones playing out of the WA33 at the same time? 1 pair on the 4pin XLR and 1 pair on the 1/4".


----------



## Bonddam

yagislav said:


> Is it ok to have two pairs of headphones playing out of the WA33 at the same time? 1 pair on the 4pin XLR and 1 pair on the 1/4".


I'd ask Mike at Woo. All I know is impedance will be higher.


----------



## Bonddam

JLoud said:


> Good to hear. Although I was kind of hoping you would get tired of it and put it up for sale.
> All kidding aside I'm glad they took care of the issue.


No way I got too many power tubes. 
EML 300B 2.5
KR2A3 HP 
Psvane ACME 
EH2A3 
Anyone want the two middle? Low hours. Been fully tested by Woo when my amp was in. The KR I'm kinda attached to but ACME is easier for me to say by to for $600. The KR are hardly used so much higher.


----------



## Shini44 (Apr 18, 2021)

my WA33 EE JPS Wired will be here today. sadly PS Audio will be late for months since they lack a lot of items, won't be surprised if it took 5-6 months.. so i hope i won't have any humming issues as my power here is 220-230v so its not fixed. -_-''

Tubes so far
KR2A3 HP (un burned)
Psvane ACME & Takatsuki  (both burned in by woo audio) i will start with these for now since my Abyss headphone yet to be shipped.

will use Utopia, Susvara and LCD 3 too.

Small Update:
Psvane ACME & Takatsuki Pair:

no Humming/Hissing with Uopia or any other headphone so far, even with zero volume. seems like i wont need PS Audio lol. thanks god xD

v220 setting.


----------



## Shini44

The Beast has Landed~~


----------



## JLoud

I am curious about comparisons between EML and KR 2A3 tubes. Anyone try both and willing to share thoughts on differences and similarities?


----------



## Shini44

JLoud said:


> I am curious about comparisons between EML and KR 2A3 tubes. Anyone try both and willing to share thoughts on differences and similarities?


+1


----------



## pippen99

Kr could have a warranty that actually works?


----------



## JLoud

I’ve run EML in my last 3 amps with no issues but I hear you. Hopefully nothing happens going forward.


----------



## JLoud

Started having an issue with my WA33 this past week. At first I thought it was my DAC or computer. No sound at all. Finally after switching DACs and messing with software I tried the SE input on WA33. Works fine. So I switched XLR inputs and it worked. Possibly bad input on amp. However when I switched back to original XLR input it is working again. Real head scratcher.


----------



## Bonddam

Both EML300B2.5 and KR sound really good I have no idea which I like better. Sorry can't be much help I just get to enjoying the KR right now, yesterday it was EML.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Shini44 said:


> The Beast has Landed~~



Beautiful.... happy to hear she is singing nicely. The sound will improve with every use.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

yagislav said:


> Is it ok to have two pairs of headphones playing out of the WA33 at the same time? 1 pair on the 4pin XLR and 1 pair on the 1/4".



You can but we recommend two of the same make and model headphones. Otherwise, one may play LOUDER than the other. If both headphones are power demanding (ABYSS, Susvara, LCD4, etc.), the sonic performance may be reduced at high listening levels.


----------



## pippen99

DCS Rossini and Clock landed today.  Just started burning in.  Mick the owner of Quintessence Audio in Chicago personally delivered and set it up.  I highly recommend Quintessence to everybody.





Stock photo.  Installed in the lowest shelf before I got good pictures.


----------



## Roasty

pippen99 said:


> DCS Rossini and Clock landed today.  Just started burning in.  Mick the owner of Quintessence Audio in Chicago personally delivered and set it up.  I highly recommend Quintessence to everybody.
> 
> 
> Stock photo.  Installed in the lowest shelf before I got good pictures.



Congrats man! End game!


----------



## pippen99

Woo WA33 EE + DCS Rossini and Clock = Endgame


----------



## yagislav

@HiFiGuy528 would having a pair of Sennheiser hd800s and hd820 plugged in at the same time be fine? one via 4 pin xlr and one 1/4". Both are 300 ohm impedance.

Thanks!


----------



## Shini44

pippen99 said:


> Woo WA33 EE + DCS Rossini and Clock = Endgame


how would they be compared to Hugo TT2 + M-Scaler Combo? i am quite curious now lol.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Shini44 said:


> how would they be compared to Hugo TT2 + M-Scaler Combo? i am quite curious now lol.


Or to the DCS Vivaldi without clock


----------



## Bonddam




----------



## yagislav

Is it normal that I hear some hum / noises when I have the sennheiser hd800s / 820 plugged in when no music is playing? With the 1266TC it is dead silent when there is no music playing.


----------



## pippen99

That hum(probably transformer) afflicts numerous WA33.  With my own a hum could be heard between tracks with my ZMF Verite open but dead silence(relatively) with my LCD-4.


----------



## Roasty

I have zero hum with KR tubes and Utopia/Stellia.


----------



## Bonddam

I had strange effect hum with EML 300 in right and I flipped the tubes and hum went away, KR tubes silent ACME silent. With ZMF there's hum audible with no music playing and it's from both channels. My planars are quite.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Apr 20, 2021)

I have some hum for the first 30 seconds while the WA33 turns on, but only then, and only with the HD800s and th900mk2s. The hum goes away after the WA33 is fully turned on. 


Using the exact same tubes, I had some persistent hum with my original standard edition (and the wa33 itself buzzed a bit, which apparently is common). But no persistent hum or buzzing with the elite edition. I don’t know if I just got lucky with the elite having no hum or buzzing, or the elite transformers are less susceptible to such hum.


----------



## Bonddam

So my hum is there during the first 15 minutes with any high sensitivity headphone. It’s in right channel. So hopefully burn in will eventually give me silence during warm up. It’s different from the hum on zmf.


----------



## yagislav

The hum with my hd800s / 820 are much louder on H impedance than when on L impedance. With 300ohm headphones impedance should be on H yea?

Does this impedance setting really just give more gain or is there something else going on? Level is on L for senn's. Cant really go higher than 9am on the volume knob for the senn's. No issues with 1266TC though.


----------



## JLoud

I believe Woo recommends H impedance setting for headphones over 100 ohms. But of course try both and see which sounds better to you. Can't hurt anything.


----------



## JLoud

Now I have a question for fellow WA33 owners. I keep getting drop outs from my inputs. Basically no sound. At first I thought it was a computer problem, then a a DAC problem, now I think it might be the amp. Basically I'll turn the amp on and no output. If I unplug one of the XLR cables, or switch them to the other XLR input I have sound. If I switch back it is working again. Doesn't do it every time but enough to cause some concern. I don't have another set of XLR cables on hand long enough to swap out. The SE cables won't work either, unless I unplug the XLR then they work. Confusing.


----------



## joseph69

JLoud said:


> Now I have a question for fellow WA33 owners. I keep getting drop outs from my inputs. Basically no sound. At first I thought it was a computer problem, then a a DAC problem, now I think it might be the amp. Basically I'll turn the amp on and no output. If I unplug one of the XLR cables, or switch them to the other XLR input I have sound. If I switch back it is working again. Doesn't do it every time but enough to cause some concern. I don't have another set of XLR cables on hand long enough to swap out. The SE cables won't work either, unless I unplug the XLR then they work. Confusing.


If it was only your XLR inputs I'd say check for continuity between the male/female pins while moving the cables around or buy the least expensive XLR IC's to rule them out, but if you're having the same issue with the SE input and certain it's not the cable it sounds like the inputs are the issue. I'd also try putting in all of the stock tubes to see if you have the same issue.


----------



## musicman59 (Apr 21, 2021)

@yagislav.
 Even both having the same impedance and sensitivity the one connected to the 1/4” SE output will have significantly lower sound because is getting half de power compared to the balanced output unless Woo is doing something internally to double the power on the positive line of the single ended.


----------



## Bonddam

Anyone interested in EML 300B 2.5 mesh? Looking for $1100 shipped.
I'm going to post them this weekend but figure I'd throw it now.


----------



## Shini44

my LCD-4 and Double Helix Cable Prion4 Cable have arrived~~ +adapters to use Prion4 with the rest of my headphones. time to burn in both cable and LCD-4 >:3


----------



## ThanatosVI

It came to my attention that the Wa 234 Monoblocks cost as much as a Wa33 Elite Edition.

Why did nobody compare them until now.
They are also designed for headphone use as well.


----------



## JLoud

Shini44 said:


> my LCD-4 and Double Helix Cable Prion4 Cable have arrived~~ +adapters to use Prion4 with the rest of my headphones. time to burn in both cable and LCD-4 >:3


Look forward to comparisons of the LCD4 and Susvara. The Susvara is a headphone that has been on my list but have never had a chance to hear it.


----------



## mammal

ThanatosVI said:


> It came to my attention that the Wa 234 Monoblocks cost as much as a Wa33 Elite Edition.
> 
> Why did nobody compare them until now.
> They are also designed for headphone use as well.


I spoke to Mike about this and he told me that for my AB-1266 he would recommend commend WA33 Elite JPS edition, not the monoblocks.


----------



## ThanatosVI

mammal said:


> I spoke to Mike about this and he told me that for my AB-1266 he would recommend commend WA33 Elite JPS edition, not the monoblocks.


Did he also say why?


----------



## mammal

ThanatosVI said:


> Did he also say why?


He said that guys at Abyss like it and the pairing has a good synergy. Not to mention you don't need to deal with two volume knobs (I wouldn't mind). I think it is because it is their latest and greatest, and with JPS wiring apparently it works quite well with Abyss. For non-Abyss headphones, he said he recommends non JPS version.


----------



## Shini44 (Apr 25, 2021)

Shini44 said:


> my LCD-4 and Double Helix Cable Prion4 Cable have arrived~~ +adapters to use Prion4 with the rest of my headphones. time to burn in both cable and LCD-4 >:3



ok since i liked the cable i decided to go full upgrade on the rest of the cables in the system  because the difference was day and night on susvara even before 100 hours of burn in lol. really clean and black background. really didn't expect that.

getting the following now:

2x custom coaxial cable with Furutech FX-alpha OCC silver 75-ohm coaxial cable and Furutech carbon fiber/rhodium BNC (i asked for Prion4 bnc but peter suggest this)
2x Prion4S Masterpiece Interconnect 3pin XLR to 3pin XLR.

my power cable from JPS for 1050$ so no need to upgrade it for now with some silver OCC power cable yet xD

CC: @Ciggavelli  what do you think bro >:3

i got to say that WA33 EE JPS is very very neutral and amazingly pick any changes. i had cable upgrades on my headphones on previous systems yet dang WA33 EE JPS really shows these changes even better, first time in 11 years i feel such a difference in just a cable.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Shini44 said:


> ok since i liked the cable i decided to go full upgrade on the rest of the cables in the system  because the difference was day and night on susvara even before 100 hours of burn in lol. really clean and black background. really didn't expect that.
> 
> getting the following now:
> 
> ...


Yeah, the WA33 EE JPS is definitely a great headphone amp.  Glad you're liking it!  I also find that cables do make a noticeable difference.  When I got the EE JPS I bought a more high quality XLR interconnect, and I was super surprised at how much better everything sounded.  I think with your upgraded cables you should have a nice sound quality boost.


----------



## Ciggavelli

pippen99 said:


> DCS Rossini and Clock landed today.  Just started burning in.  Mick the owner of Quintessence Audio in Chicago personally delivered and set it up.  I highly recommend Quintessence to everybody.
> 
> 
> Stock photo.  Installed in the lowest shelf before I got good pictures.


How do you like the Rossini with the WA33? The Rossini and clock is something I’ve been investigating in my journey to finding a new dac. What dac did you have before?


----------



## pippen99

I have been playing music through it for about 40 hrs.  It has a digital burn circuit but I prefer to just play music.  I expect it to improve over the next 100 hours.  Already I hear a much larger soundstage including greater depth.  This allows for greater precision in identifying the positioning of instruments.  I hear more distinct bass and greater authenticity in vocals.  I also find the Mosaic app to be easier to use than the Lumin app.  There is a variety of filters to try but will wait on experimentation until I feel the DAC is completely stable.  The Rossini also does full rendering of MQA files.  I have some custom BNC digital cables for the DAC/Clock connection from Peter at DHC that should be here late next week.

I previously had a PS Audio Directstream DAC.  The DSD also was a FPGA based DAC but had come to the end of its product life.  PS Audio is releasing one last firmware update next week(maybe) and then a new model will be released perhaps by the end of the year(maybe).


----------



## Ciggavelli (Apr 25, 2021)

pippen99 said:


> I have been playing music through it for about 40 hrs.  It has a digital burn circuit but I prefer to just play music.  I expect it to improve over the next 100 hours.  Already I hear a much larger soundstage including greater depth.  This allows for greater precision in identifying the positioning of instruments.  I hear more distinct bass and greater authenticity in vocals.  I also find the Mosaic app to be easier to use than the Lumin app.  There is a variety of filters to try but will wait on experimentation until I feel the DAC is completely stable.  The Rossini also does full rendering of MQA files.  I have some custom BNC digital cables for the DAC/Clock connection from Peter at DHC that should be here late next week.
> 
> I previously had a PS Audio Directstream DAC.  The DSD also was a FPGA based DAC but had come to the end of its product life.  PS Audio is releasing one last firmware update next week(maybe) and then a new model will be released perhaps by the end of the year(maybe).


Thanks for the impressions. Have you ever heard the DAVE, which is what I have now? I’m curious to see how they compare


----------



## pippen99

It is strange but in all the meets I have attended(8-10) there has been no Chord equipment there other than a Mojo which I listened to for a couple minutes but at that time had no interest in portable audio.  Wrongly or right from all that I have read about Chord I kind of lumped them with the Schiit Yggdrasil which I have heard several times.  I found the Yggy to be dry and brittle and not at all to my tastes.  Now that was 1st generation Yggy and perhaps it has improved with the updates that have been done to it.  As I said I haven't heard Chord so I could be full of it.


----------



## JLoud

Well my frustrating problem continues with my WA33. Occasional times with no sound. First thought it was my new M1 mac. Nope. Then maybe my Yggdrasil. Nope. Next cables. Nope. Now trying different rectifier. We shall see.


----------



## JLoud

I will say the 596 rectifier has considerably less transformer hum as compared to the Tak I was running. I will be disappointed if the Tak is bad, for the cost it should run a lot longer without issues. But it is much easier than sending the WA33 in for repair. If it was a consistent problem it would be much simpler to nail down.


----------



## pippen99

My Tak died at 13 months.  Takatsuki has no give and take on the warranty.  12 months and done.  I would say I hope it isn't the Tak as it sounded better than the KR I am running now but that would mean more serious problems with the amp


----------



## JLoud

Agreed. I have to figure it out quick, I believe the Tak has a May 5 purchase date.


----------



## JLoud

I had an EML 5U4G mesh I liked, but sold after I got the Tak, didn't figure I would need it. Lesson learned I guess.


----------



## SuperBurrito

Ciggavelli said:


> Thanks for the impressions. Have you ever heard the DAVE, which is what I have now? I’m curious to see how they compare


I had the MDave combo, which is awesome.  Dave is a flat out bargain in the used market, I think.
Now I have the Rossini (no clock) and it's a big step forward on sound quality.  Also nice for other reasons - it's a Roon endpoint, you just use $20 ethernet cables instead of messing around with decrapifcying the USB connection, it's firmware updatable, and you can control it with your phone, ipad, etc. 
The only thing about the Rossini, the rest of your system should eventually get to that caliber if you want the best out of it...


----------



## Ciggavelli

SuperBurrito said:


> I had the MDave combo, which is awesome.  Dave is a flat out bargain in the used market, I think.
> Now I have the Rossini (no clock) and it's a big step forward on sound quality.  Also nice for other reasons - it's a Roon endpoint, you just use $20 ethernet cables instead of messing around with decrapifcying the USB connection, it's firmware updatable, and you can control it with your phone, ipad, etc.
> The only thing about the Rossini, the rest of your system should eventually get to that caliber if you want the best out of it...


This is the comparison I’ve been wondering about. Thanks  

I think I’ve narrowed down the dac I wanna get. It’s going to either be adding some Sean Jacob DC4 linear power supplies to my DAVE and m-scaler or the Rossini with the clock (might get that later).


----------



## pippen99

A little movement on the EML 300B 2.5 warranty issue.  I shipped the defective tube and it's match off to Jacmusic two weeks ago.  After sending a nudge last night Jac replied that they could not duplicate the issue(not surprised).  He did offer to replace with 2A3s but since I already have a quad of EML 2A3s that is not an option.  He also said they could build a replacement but that would take a long time.  I sent back another alternative so we will see.  At least he is communicating if intermittently.


----------



## ThanatosVI

pippen99 said:


> A little movement on the EML 300B 2.5 warranty issue.  I shipped the defective tube and it's match off to Jacmusic two weeks ago.  After sending a nudge last night Jac replied that they could not duplicate the issue(not surprised).  He did offer to replace with 2A3s but since I already have a quad of EML 2A3s that is not an option.  He also said they could build a replacement but that would take a long time.  I sent back another alternative so we will see.  At least he is communicating if intermittently.


Good luck with this whole Situation. Would be nice to hear some positive News in the end


----------



## pippen99

Just received email from Jac that they would build me a new tube.  I am not going to ask how long because it probably would be be pointless.  I might start asking after 3 months just for giggles.


----------



## cgb3 (May 1, 2021)

JLoud said:


> Started having an issue with my WA33 this past week. At first I thought it was my DAC or computer. No sound at all. Finally after switching DACs and messing with software I tried the SE input on WA33. Works fine. So I switched XLR inputs and it worked. Possibly bad input on amp. However when I switched back to original XLR input it is working again. Real head scratcher.


Intermittent faults are always difficult.

If you're handy with a multimeter, you can identify the problem, eventually, (especially difficult if it's a thermal fault). I'd try new interconnects first.

Otherwise, switch source, amp, and playback until you can isolate the fault to the product.

Love the looks of the WA33. Hope to own one, one of these days.


----------



## JLoud

Update on my WA33 problems. After trying different Dac, cables, computer source, I tried a different rectifier (thanks Joseph69) and that seems to have fixed the problem. One week with no issues. 🤞


----------



## pippen99

ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST(Tak 274B).  Sorry couldn't help myself.  Takatsuki is apparently engaged in planned obsolescence as a business strategy.


----------



## JLoud

I know right. Not too impressed with the longevity. It sure did sound good though.


----------



## Roasty

I was using the KR 274b for a while and just swapped back to the Takatsuki and boy oh boy.. it is such a good rectifier tube. I hope mine lasts a long time!


----------



## Lucky87

pippen99 said:


> My Tak died at 13 months.  Takatsuki has no give and take on the warranty.  12 months and done.  I would say I hope it isn't the Tak as it sounded better than the KR I am running now but that would mean more serious problems with the amp


Were you using all KR HP tubes, 4 x 2A3 and the 274B?  Because the KR HP 274B really complements each other very well compared to when I throw in my TAK in the middle. Really does not sound correct but with the stock tubes and the TAK274B a HUGE IMPROVEMENT.  But not as good as the KR HP Combo 


JLoud said:


> Agreed. I have to figure it out quick, I believe the Tak has a May 5 purchase date.


Sucks sorry this happened


pippen99 said:


> ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST(Tak 274B).  Sorry couldn't help myself.  Takatsuki is apparently engaged in planned obsolescence as a business strategy.


Just saw a YouTube video of this back in the day when all of the LIGHT BULB MANUFACTURES would get together to make sure each of there light bulbs do not go pass a certain life span meaning less than a year and if there bulbs went passed it they would fine each other. lol  Mmmm I guess we are renting the TAK's $100 per month by my
 calculations..


----------



## pippen99

I originally bought a quad of EML 2A3 upon original purchase of the amp.  I then succumbed to the "flavor of the day" and bought a quad of EML 300B 2.5.  Half that quad is now back in Germany for warranty replacement(maybe, kinda, sort of, who the hell knows).  So no the KR does not quite measure up to the Tak.  I would be willing to try a Tak again but not going to pay out big bucks for new.  I also will never buy an EML tube again.  Maybe it's Karma biting me in the ass for selling the WA5 with which I had no tube issues for nearly 4 years.

I have heard the light bulb story before. It must be true cause it's on the Internet!


----------



## Ciggavelli

I dunno what’s going on, but this thread is like a premonition. My Tak rectifier starting acting up today too. First, I got hit with no sound, like @JLoud. After testing everything, I put the stock rectifier tube in, and I got sound again. I switched back to the Tak, and it starting working again, and I don’t know why 

Now, I’m thinking the Tak is about to die completely. The part that lights up is brighter on one side. I don’t know if it’s something that was always there or if it’s new, and I’m just being paranoid. 🤷‍♂️

1 thing a know for sure is that reading this thread gives you bad luck 


Spoiler


----------



## JLoud

My Tak would work one day and not the next. If I unplugged the XLR inputs then plugged them back in it might work. Very intermittent. Swapped out the rectifier and no issues for over a week.


----------



## SuperBurrito

Lucky87 said:


> Just saw a YouTube video of this back in the day when all of the LIGHT BULB MANUFACTURES would get together to make sure each of there light bulbs do not go pass a certain life span meaning less than a year and if there bulbs went passed it they would fine each other. lol  Mmmm I guess we are renting the TAK's $100 per month by my
> calculations..


There's a light bulb in northern California that has been operating continuously for 120 years (over a million hours)!  Of course the company that made it is no longer in business since no customers ever bought replacement bulbs.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light


----------



## Lucky87

SuperBurrito said:


> There's a light bulb in northern California that has been operating continuously for 120 years (over a million hours)!  Of course the company that made it is no longer in business since no customers ever bought replacement bulbs.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light


I think you guys are MISSING MY POINT I think TAK is doing the same thing putting a 1 - 1 1/2 year life span on there Tubes.  So you are renting them by the month at a cost of $75 - $100 depending on where you bought them.


----------



## JLoud

If so that would be the worst marketing plan ever!


----------



## SuperBurrito

Lucky87 said:


> I think you guys are MISSING MY POINT I think TAK is doing the same thing putting a 1 - 1 1/2 year life span on there Tubes.  So you are renting them by the month at a cost of $75 - $100 depending on where you bought them.


I get it.  There's probably some optimum time to product failure so a company can still sell replacement products but not damage its reputation too much.

Make a perfect light bulb or vacuum tube and it only needs to be bought once.  Once you sell to all the potential customers there are no more sales to be made.


----------



## Ciggavelli

So my no sound issue appears to have resolved itself. 2 days of listening (probably 8 hours total), and no problems.

Though, I’m on the edge of my seat wondering if the Tak rectifier will stop working any day now. 

I might just buy backup tubes in case that happens. $1250 for the Tak though on the Woo Audio site


----------



## Roasty

Consider the psvane we274b 1:1 replica? I quite like that tube. Decent price too. 
I enjoy the EML 5u4g as well, but hesitate to recommend due to potential warranty issues..


----------



## pippen99

I am quite liking the KR 274B.  It is not quite the Tak but very nice.


----------



## Lucky87

pippen99 said:


> I am quite liking the KR 274B.  It is not quite the Tak but very nice.


I thought you were already running it with the KR 2A3 before? But preferred the TAK


----------



## pippen99

Your talking about two different things.  The Tak was my rectifier which blew up at 13 months.  I have never had the KR 2A3.  I have been running EML all along.  First the EML 2A3 then switched to EML 300B 2.5v which one went bad.  It is back in Germany get replaced(maybe).  So back to the EML 2A3 quad coupled with the KR 274B rectifier.


----------



## JLoud

I have run EML tubes in all my Woo amps, and fortunately never had an issue. I really liked the 300b and 5U4G mesh. Thinking of trying 2A3 mesh as well. Or the KR 2A3. Man these tubes get expensive.


----------



## Lucky87

pippen99 said:


> Your talking about two different things.  The Tak was my rectifier which blew up at 13 months.  I have never had the KR 2A3.  I have been running EML all along.  First the EML 2A3 then switched to EML 300B 2.5v which one went bad.  It is back in Germany get replaced(maybe).  So back to the EML 2A3 quad coupled with the KR 274B rectifier.


Got it I think it was Bonndam who had them and didn’t care for them for some reason I thought it was you.

Anyone running any KR HP tubes with other tubes may not sound like the combo and be put off thinking of adding other KR tubes
I highly recommend all KR HP tubes


----------



## pippen99

I had shipping and communication issues with JacMusic when I purchased the EML 2A3 quad.  They were noisy for the first 300-400 hours but fortunately grew out of it.  I then purchased a used quad of EML 300B 2.5v from a fellow Head-Fier with one going bad at approx 7 months.  Intermittent communication with Jac finally led me to just ship them at my expense to Germany with an email saying here they are.  Another two week wait until Jac agreed to build a new tube stating "but it will take a long time".  Maybe Jac will surprise me and I will get a replacement by my birthday in July but I won't hold my breath.

I have no backup as I sold the stock tubes that came with the amp so if the 2A3s go bad I guess I will go with the KR or perhaps the Elrog.  As you have noted they are horrendously expensive.  One thing I know,  I won't be purchasing anymore EML products.


----------



## Roasty

Can I just check, those using the Holo May with the WA33, are you guys using xlr or rca? 

Referencing this post from the pathos thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/pathos-inpol-ear-headphone-amplifier.955244/post-16352664

The WA33 is similar to the pathos in that woo audio has mentioned not to feed it anything more than 4.4vrms. 

Since the May doesn't have volume/output control, I guess feeding it to the wa33 via xlr is not advisable?


----------



## audiofest2018

Roasty said:


> Can I just check, those using the Holo May with the WA33, are you guys using xlr or rca?
> 
> Referencing this post from the pathos thread:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/pathos-inpol-ear-headphone-amplifier.955244/post-16352664
> ...


@Roasty I use XLR to connect my May unit to WA33 and it seems fine without clips or distortion. Maybe my ears are not able to detect them?  Will have to experiment with RCA output to check this.


----------



## Bonddam

I don't hear anything bad with Xlr out of my May into WA33. I'm pushing the volume to 12 sometimes but mostly around 10 11 on the dial. I do have a clipping meter for setting gain on car amps I'm curious if I could get it to work on WA33.


----------



## cddc (May 16, 2021)

Roasty said:


> Can I just check, those using the Holo May with the WA33, are you guys using xlr or rca?
> 
> Referencing this post from the pathos thread:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/pathos-inpol-ear-headphone-amplifier.955244/post-16352664
> ...



WA33 is a fully balanced amp, so XLR input is preferred to Single-Ended, otherwise you're only utilizing half of its circuit (provided the DAC has XLR output as well).

Under the assumption that volume control should be done by pre-amp, lots of DAC's do not provide a volume control function. That said, DAC's do have different output signal levels, I guess that's why Woo audio warns you against too high a dac input voltage level - if the pot on the amp/pre-amp can't turn down the input voltage level enough, there can be problems. So you need to find out the DAC output signal voltage levels, that should be available from the DAC manual normally.


----------



## makan (May 19, 2021)

I had question on what are the stock 6C45 tubes that come with the WA33. Mine are the 6c45pi electro harmonix gold-pin tubes and wonder if they are the stock or are they upgraded ones from stock?  Thanks.  I have the Tak 274B rectifier and stock (I think) EH 2A3 Gold power tubes.


----------



## ThanatosVI

I wonder if Woo Audio would modify the amp to use 6SN7 instead of 6C45 on special request 🤔


----------



## JLoud

makan said:


> I had question on what are the stock 6C45 tubes that come with the WA33. Mine are the 6c45pi electro harmonix gold-pin tubes and wonder if they are the stock or are they upgraded ones from stock?  Thanks.  I have the Tak 274B rectifier and stock (I think) EH 2A3 Gold power tubes.


The gold pin are the upgraded tubes. I can't remember what stock are, I have never used them.


----------



## pippen99

Stock are Sovtek 6c45pi.  I have never used them either.


----------



## joseph69

The stock drivers are Sovtek 6C45pi, powers are Electro Harmonix Gold 2A3 and the rectifier is a Psvane 5U4G  and I'm using all of them right even though I have all upgraded tubes.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Does anyone have any experience with KR Audio tube warranty?
Any Problems like with EML?


----------



## pippen99

I only have the KR 274B and that just for a few months and so far no problems.  My issues with EML and JacMusic have been documented in this thread.  I currently have pair of EML 300B 2.5v in Germany awaiting warranty replacement.  My correspondence with Jac started on 03/08/2020 and Jac has promised to build me a new one to replace the defective one but "It will take a long time".  I can hope that something will happen by my birthday in July but will not hold my breath.  I see your in Germany.  Maybe you could take a drive over to Sulz and ask Jac in person how's my new tube coming along?


----------



## ThanatosVI

pippen99 said:


> I only have the KR 274B and that just for a few months and so far no problems.  My issues with EML and JacMusic have been documented in this thread.  I currently have pair of EML 300B 2.5v in Germany awaiting warranty replacement.  My correspondence with Jac started on 03/08/2020 and Jac has promised to build me a new one to replace the defective one but "It will take a long time".  I can hope that something will happen by my birthday in July but will not hold my breath.  I see your in Germany.  Maybe you could take a drive over to Sulz and ask Jac in person how's my new tube coming along?


Yeah I was following your EML Warranty journey, that was actually the reason I thought about the KR Warranty. 

KR KT150 for my amp cost 940€
This is more than I comfortably pay for tubes, so the Warranty was of actual interest to me. 

While I am way closer to Sulz than you are, it's still more than a 4h ride over there...


----------



## makan

NOOB question as mine did not come with the stock rectifier. What is the 274B rectifier that comes with the WA33. Mine came with the Tak, and am thinking of picking up a backup, and was wondering what the stock one is.


----------



## Lucky87

makan said:


> NOOB question as mine did not come with the stock rectifier. What is the 274B rectifier that comes with the WA33. Mine came with the Tak, and am thinking of picking up a backup, and was wondering what the stock one is.


This is from Woo Site in RED

*WA33:* 6C45 Drive x 4, 2A3 Power x 4, *5U4G x1*


----------



## Ciggavelli (Jun 5, 2021)

I looked at my stock tubes. There are no company markings on the box or tube  

it indeed is a 5U4G tube. Other than that 🤷‍♂️

I have the Tak too, and it is much better than the stock tube


----------



## Bonddam

makan said:


> NOOB question as mine did not come with the stock rectifier. What is the 274B rectifier that comes with the WA33. Mine came with the Tak, and am thinking of picking up a backup, and was wondering what the stock one is.


I'm confused did you buy the Tak? Even if you bought it you should have gotten a stock rectifier when you bought your amp from Woo.


----------



## joseph69

just 4 posts above yours tells you all the stock tubes that come with the WA33.
     Post #1,466 of 1,473


----------



## makan

joseph69 said:


> just 4 posts above yours tells you all the stock tubes that come with the WA33.
> Post #1,466 of 1,473


Man, do I feel real stupid now. Thanks. Psvane 5U4G


----------



## makan

Bonddam said:


> I'm confused did you buy the Tak? Even if you bought it you should have gotten a stock rectifier when you bought your amp from Woo.


I bought the WA33 used and it only came with the Tak.


----------



## makan

Ciggavelli said:


> I looked at my stock tubes. There are no company markings on the box or tube
> 
> it indeed is a 5U4G tube. Other than that 🤷‍♂️
> 
> I have the Tak too, and it is much better than the stock tube


I am thinking of getting the Psvane WE274B replica as the backup or to roll.


----------



## Ciggavelli

makan said:


> I am thinking of getting the Psvane WE274B replica as the backup or to roll.


A lot of people here use the KR rectifier. I’ve never tried it, but it appears people like it


----------



## pippen99

The stock tube is a Svetlana 5U3C.  If you want a quality backup my KR HP 274B is for sale in the classifieds.


----------



## Lucky87

makan said:


> I bought the WA33 used and it only came with the Tak.


This is what my Elite came with


----------



## joseph69

pippen99 said:


> The stock tube is a Svetlana 5U3C.


This is what you received from Woo when you purchased your WA33?


----------



## JLoud

I think the stock tubes have varied over time. Whatever they have on hand.


----------



## littlej0e

My WA33 will be delivered on Wednesday or Thursday, I’ll let you know which stock tubes arrive with it.


----------



## littlej0e (Jun 8, 2021)

I received the tubes this morning even though the amp itself is still a couple of days out. Pics of the stock tubes are attached (exact same as @Lucky87). Hope this helps...

Let me know if you need anymore info.


----------



## pippen99

That is the exact tube setup mine arrived with.  For me everything arrived at the same time.  That is a little strange.


----------



## littlej0e (Jun 8, 2021)

pippen99 said:


> That is the exact tube setup mine arrived with.  For me everything arrived at the same time.  That is a little strange.


I purchased a full suite of upgraded tubes, but the amp obviously included the stock tubes as well (you can kind of see the Tak and some of the KR tubes in the back on one of the pictures). I suspect that's why they shipped all the tubes together, but separately from the amp.


----------



## pippen99

I ordered the Tak and upgrade EH drivers and everything showed up together.  This was prepandemic so maybe that has something to do with it


----------



## mammal

littlej0e said:


> I received the tubes this morning even though the amp itself is still a couple of days out. Pics of the stock tubes are attached (exact same as @Lucky87). Hope this helps...


How big was the box your tubes arrived in? Any chance a WA33 would fit in it, just was missing? You wouldn’t want to be waiting on something if it was stolen, happened to me once, haha.


----------



## littlej0e

mammal said:


> How big was the box your tubes arrived in? Any chance a WA33 would fit in it, just was missing? You wouldn’t want to be waiting on something if it was stolen, happened to me once, haha.


lol... good thinking. The tubes came in one medium-sized box with two smaller boxes inside that each contained one full set of tubes. The amp portion was shipped with a separate FedEx tracking number and is scheduled to arrive on Thursday.


----------



## littlej0e (Jun 10, 2021)

So...my WA33 EE JPS arrived this morning. I've been using it pre-amp mode with the Raal SR1a, Raal HSA-1b, Holo May KTE, and my custom Pareto Audio source/streamer. I was planning to do a detailed (see long diatribe) of a review, but after a couple hours of listening it became clear that I legitimately don't possess the language or capability for expression to properly convey what I hear out of this magical triumph of engineering. This thing is euphoric poetry personified. I would personally sell blood, semen, and perhaps even a kidney, to buy this amp. The breathtaking human experience afforded by this thing is truly remarkable and leaves me flat out speechless. If you have one, you are extremely lucky. If you don't, do whatever you have to do to get one. Immediately.

@Ciggavelli - this thing provides almost-instant triggers...W-T-F?!? I'm trying to figure out how to strap myself into my office chair so I don't fall out. Guess it's time to invest in a "listening chair" a.k.a La-z-boy recliner! Thanks so much for recommending this, along with everything else. The WA33 EE JPS really brought everything together into a crescendo of slack-jawed transcendence and amazement. It is definitely the cherry on top of the hifi sundae. God help me when the TCs arrive...


----------



## mammal

littlej0e said:


> So...my WA33 EE JPS arrived this morning. I've been using it pre-amp mode with the Raal SR1a, Raal HSA-1b, Holo May KTE, and my custom Pareto Audio source/streamer. I was planning to do a detailed (see long diatribe) of a review, but after a couple hours of listening it became clear that I legitimately don't possess the language or capability for expression to properly convey what I hear out of this magical triumph of engineering. This thing is euphoric poetry personified. I would personally sell blood, semen, and perhaps even a kidney, to buy this amp. The human experience afforded by this amp is truly remarkable and leaves me flat out speechless. If you have one, you are extremely lucky. If you don't, do whatever you have to do to get one. Immediately.
> 
> @Ciggavelli - this thing provides almost-instant triggers...W-T-F?!? I'm trying to figure out how to strap myself into my office chair so I don't fall out. Guess it's time to invest in a "listening chair" a.k.a La-z-boy recliner! Thanks so much for recommending this, along with everything else. The WA33 EE JPS really brought everything together into a crescendo of slack-jawed amazement. It is definitely the cherry on top of the hifi sundae. God help me when he TCs arrive...


Please find the courage to write a review about it for us, compare it to something else we all have used / know, it would be much appreciated! As I am considering this amp myself, what was your decision process? It is not possible for me to compare S/EE, JPS/not, Stock/Upgraded tubes and all the combinations and buying TOTL version right now would be a stretch for me (just bought AB-1266 and Bartok, 20k bye bye, adding another 18k is again doubling it). Did you just go for what-the-heck-i-wanna-it-all or did you carefully compared people's impressions and reviews? Thanks!


----------



## Ciggavelli

littlej0e said:


> So...my WA33 EE JPS arrived this morning. I've been using it pre-amp mode with the Raal SR1a, Raal HSA-1b, Holo May KTE, and my custom Pareto Audio source/streamer. I was planning to do a detailed (see long diatribe) of a review, but after a couple hours of listening it became clear that I legitimately don't possess the language or capability for expression to properly convey what I hear out of this magical triumph of engineering. This thing is euphoric poetry personified. I would personally sell blood, semen, and perhaps even a kidney, to buy this amp. The breathtaking human experience afforded by this thing is truly remarkable and leaves me flat out speechless. If you have one, you are extremely lucky. If you don't, do whatever you have to do to get one. Immediately.
> 
> @Ciggavelli - this thing provides almost-instant triggers...W-T-F?!? I'm trying to figure out how to strap myself into my office chair so I don't fall out. Guess it's time to invest in a "listening chair" a.k.a La-z-boy recliner! Thanks so much for recommending this, along with everything else. The WA33 EE JPS really brought everything together into a crescendo of slack-jawed transcendence and amazement. It is definitely the cherry on top of the hifi sundae. God help me when the TCs arrive...


I'm glad you like it!  It's definitely my favorite audio component that I've ever owned. The TC and WA33 EE JPS combo is something very special too.  I think you will really enjoy that combo. 

Let us know what you think when you get the TCs


----------



## littlej0e (Jun 10, 2021)

mammal said:


> Please find the courage to write a review about it for us, compare it to something else we all have used / know, it would be much appreciated! As I am considering this amp myself, what was your decision process? It is not possible for me to compare S/EE, JPS/not, Stock/Upgraded tubes and all the combinations and buying TOTL version right now would be a stretch for me (just bought AB-1266 and Bartok, 20k bye bye, adding another 18k is again doubling it). Did you just go for what-the-heck-i-wanna-it-all or did you carefully compared people's impressions and reviews? Thanks!



The problem is trying to properly and coherently express what this thing can do and comparing it to anything else I've tried seems like a fools errand. Regardless, I'll put pen to paper and see if I can explain this thing...somehow.

To answer your question regarding my decision making process, the short answer is both -it was both quite involved and quite risky. I initially began by soliciting opinions from a wide swath of people, say twenty or thirty from four to five different audio forums, then began distilling the recommendations down into a short list of options. It quickly became apparent that the WA33 was the best choice as it was _by far_ the most recommended, especially for the Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC headphones I had already planned to own (FYI, the Wells Audio Headtrip II was the second most recommended). Unfortunately, there weren't a lot of reviews and information out there for the WA33 (especially for the EE, the JPS edition, or both) so I reached out to multiple vendors, dealers, and owners for more information. Despite the numerous glowing recommendations for the WA33 (yep...that was a tube pun), I had more or less settled on the Wells Audio Headtrip II. This was mostly because I was afraid of tubes and subsequent tube maintenance. I reasoned that if I was going to spend 15-20k on an amp, I sure as hell wasn't going to get something that I'd have to keep pumping money into to maintain over the long term (LOL@littlej0e trying to be "sensible" when considering buying a 15k amplifier).

Then...as fate would have it...I just happened to come across a certain gentlemen by the name of @Ciggavelli on a forum called head-fi.org. It turns out he has the exact same condition I do (synesthesia). He was the only person I found throughout all of my research and solicitations that truly understood what I was trying to build and why. Furthermore, he built his system for a lot of the same reasons, so he was an absolute goldmine of guidance for my very unique use case. When he recommended the WA33 EE JPS, and explained his reasoning behind it, that was the final nail in the coffin -I had to get the WA33 EE JPS.


Edit: I will add that I did get to try the stock WA33 at a local dealer. It was good, but the EE JSP edition flat out destroys it by a country mile. The stock WA33 and the WA33 EE JPS aren't the same amp at all. Not even close. So if you do go with a WA33, definitely get the EE JPS edition. Also, for reference I did get fully upgraded tubes: (4 x KR Audio 2A3 HP Power, TA-274B 1 x Takatsuki Rectifier, and 4 x 6C45Pi Electro Harmonix Gold-pin Drivers). At this point, It would be difficult to recommend another configuration based on my experience thus far. But for giggles, I'll throw in the stock tubes and have a go.

Lastly, my wallet feels your pain. Trust me. Mine is currently on life support...


----------



## mammal

littlej0e said:


> The problem is trying to properly and coherently express what this thing can do and comparing it to anything else I've tried seems like a fools errand. Regardless, I'll put pen to paper and see if I can explain this thing...somehow.
> 
> To answer your question regarding my decision making process, the short answer is both -it was both quite involved and quite risky. I initially began by soliciting opinions from a wide swath of people, say twenty or thirty from four to five different audio forums, then began distilling the recommendations down into a short list of options. It quickly became apparent that the WA33 was the best choice as it was _by far_ the most recommended, especially for the Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC headphones I had already planned to own (FYI, the Wells Audio Headtrip II was the second most recommended). Unfortunately, there weren't a lot of reviews and information out there for the WA33 (especially for the EE, the JPS edition, or both) so I reached out to multiple vendors, dealers, and owners for more information. Despite the numerous glowing recommendations for the WA33 (yep...that was a tube pun), I had more or less settled on the Wells Audio Headtrip II. This was mostly because I was afraid of tubes and subsequent tube maintenance. I reasoned that if I was going to spend 15-20k on an amp, I sure as hell wasn't going to get something that I'd have to keep pumping money into to maintain over the long term (LOL@littlej0e trying to be "sensible" when considering buying a 15k amplifier).
> 
> ...


I cannot thank you enough for sharing your story. It means a lot to me that you found the time to write about it. Even though I do not share your neurological condition, I have my own called misophonia. That's why I live with headphones (literally sleep, work, travel, talk to others). So I understand how catoring to yourself is important to one self.

Very interesting assessment of the comparison of the stock against the fully upgraded unit. I wonder now, what do you think contributes the most? Tubes, JPS or EE? In what order would you put them?

I could imagine stretching later this year for perhaps JPS upgraded Tubes standard edition, or perhaps JPS elite without Tubes, but I don't think I can do all 3. Should I instead save for it?

Or should I simply wait until I can get my setup which is currently worth 20 to something like 50k? (Upgrade Bartok to Rossini, add a Rossini clock, and then add WA33 JPS EE with upgraded Tubes).

It is easy for me to audition DCS stuff at home, so testing a Rossini clock is simple. Testing Rossini DAC itself requires an amplifier, so as you can see I am thinking of what possible upgrade path I could take. If it was feasible to audition everytging at home, things would have been so much simpler.


----------



## littlej0e (Jun 10, 2021)

mammal said:


> I cannot thank you enough for sharing your story. It means a lot to me that you found the time to write about it. Even though I do not share your neurological condition, I have my own called misophonia. That's why I live with headphones (literally sleep, work, travel, talk to others). So I understand how catoring to yourself is important to one self.


You are very welcome! It seems you do indeed understand where I am coming from then. I agree completely that catering to yourself is important. I mean preference is basically the older brother of use case, right? If you spend most of your life in headphones (and can spend a lot of time stationary at home), you definitely owe it to yourself to at least consider getting one of these amplifiers.



mammal said:


> Very interesting assessment of the comparison of the stock against the fully upgraded unit. I wonder now, what do you think contributes the most? Tubes, JPS or EE? In what order would you put them?
> 
> I could imagine stretching later this year for perhaps JPS upgraded Tubes standard edition, or perhaps JPS elite without Tubes, but I don't think I can do all 3. Should I instead save for it?
> 
> ...



Personally, I would recommend saving until you don't have to compromise, espcially considering you are getting Abyss AB-1266 Phi TCs. Also, based on what I hear out of this setup, I'd be extremely reluctant to subtract anything. But if there were a gun to my head and I absolutely had to chose, I'd probably go WA33 EE with stock tubes. You can always save and upgrade the tubes later and in that scenario, I would ditch the JPS wiring. I think the Woo Audio folks actually recommend the WA33 EE non-JPS edition if you aren't running Abyss gear anyway (namely the 1266's). But my main reasoning behind the WA33 EE non-JPS recommendation is because I can hear the friggin' mind of god out of the SR1a's and HSA-1b just using the WA33 EE JPS as a _preamp _without any Abyss components that will supposedly sound better with the JPS wiring (that's why I'm so excited for the 1266's to arrive). Case in point, I just slapped my old Dan Clark Ether C Flow 1.1s on the WA33 EE JPS and noticed similar "next level" performance, but it stopped short of the "next plane of existence" experience I get with the SR1a's + HSA-1B + WA33 EE JPS in preamp.

Incidentally...my wild-eyed, zero proof, back-of-the-napkin theory is this amp somehow outputs a unique harmonic structure that causes visceral euphoria and deeply emotional reactions to sound. Call it "god harmonics". For example, my wife loves Darius Rucker and has listened the Hootie and the Blowfish album Cracked Rear View literally a thousand times. But listening to the song "I'm going home" on this rig sent her straight into tears in about a minute.

Whatever the cause...whatever the voodoo...this amp is truly something very, very special.


----------



## mammal

littlej0e said:


> You are very welcome! It seems you do indeed understand where I am coming from then. I agree completely that catering to yourself is important. I mean preference is basically the older brother of use case, right? If you spend most of your life in headphones (and can spend a lot of time stationary at home), you definitely owe it to yourself to at least consider getting one of these amplifiers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are a gold mine for reading material, thanks buddy. With regards to JPS wiring, I have actually owned their high end Superconductor cable when I had Diana V2 and I honestly could not hear a difference, perhaps this is beyond my level of hearing ability (I am not trying to discount other people’s experiences). So JPS wiring could potentially in this amp be where I save some money (seems to be like 2k). Most likely I will end up getting it all at some point, but I should definitely exercise some patience here. I think part of my problem right now is that I am stuck at home, so listening nonstop to music (while I work for example). However, once the office reopens, I will be able to listen like 1 hour before bed time a day, then maybe the money will go somewhere else. It is also true that before pandemic, I was less into head-fi, so maybe I shouldn’t rush things, provided I already own a good enough setup.


----------



## Bigsecret

Update on experience with EML tube warranty - Today I received an email from Anthony at Music Reference/RAM Tubeworks where I purchased the tubes. Anthony went above and beyond trying to help me, though there was little he could do. He is a first class guy and would recommend to anyone. But, I digress.

He heard from Jac and who told him he was sending me a new tube tomorrow and could take a few weeks to get here. Jac also told Anthony they are not making the solid plate 300B 2.5 anymore but they will send me one that has a different plate but shouldn't sound any different (so much for the matched pair I purchased). 

The clincher is that he can't possibly be sending me a tube tomorrow -  he doesn't have my address and wouldn't know where to send it. I'm afraid that angered me to the point where I replied to Anthony that he could tell Jac to *** off. I accept I got screwed and I'm tired of either being completely ignored (for 9 mos and numerous emails) or lied to now. 

If anyone is considering EML tubes just keep in mind that if you buy from one of the few distributors, they will tell you (or should tell you) that any warranty problems must be directed to EML and that means Jac. There is no alternative. And you certainly shouldn't have any confidence in their warranty. I wouldn't trust that guy to tell me what time it is.


----------



## pippen99

I last communicated with Jac on 04/30.  He said that he would make me a replacement solid plate 300B 2.5 but it would take "a long time".  So there is two different responses to two different customers.  I don't ever expect to see my tubes again.  I will wait about another 6 weeks until I start agitating again.  It really is only to make Jac have to at least look at my email.  I expect what I have gotten so far- nothing!.  Anyone who buys EML tubes  is only setting themselves up for aggravation.


----------



## joseph69

Bigsecret said:


> He heard from Jac and who told him he was sending me a new tube tomorrow and could take a few weeks to get here.





Bigsecret said:


> The clincher is that he can't possibly be sending me a tube tomorrow - he doesn't have my address and wouldn't know where to send it.


Is it possible you're misunderstanding what Jac meant by saying he is going to send you a new tube? I'd think it would be sent to Music Reference/RAM Tubeworks to "Anthony" who is the representative for the company you made the purchase from and he'll ship it to you being he does have your address?


----------



## JLoud

Man I hope I never have a problem with my EML tubes because I really like how they sound. So far I've had 5U4G rectifiers and 300B and 2A3 tubes with no issues. But it seems like if you do have a problem you are out of luck.


----------



## JLoud

I just noticed my last post was #1500, another milestone.


----------



## Roasty

After another month of radio silence, i sent Jac another nudge email and he replied saying EML would make a new pair for me (seems to be the common theme going on now, from reading posts above). I have not heard from him since. I guess i will be sending an email once a month and pray i actually get my tubes back eventually.


----------



## mammal

Your tube issues are a big scare for me, don't want to commit to WA33 if I will one day not be able to use it to its full potential  are there any other vendors/manufacturers having them in stock / producing them, or what's your long term plan?


----------



## Roasty

mammal said:


> Your tube issues are a big scare for me, don't want to commit to WA33 if I will one day not be able to use it to its full potential  are there any other vendors/manufacturers having them in stock / producing them, or what's your long term plan?



You don't have to worry if you're going down the wa33 route. 

Woo doesn't recommend the 300b 2.5v tubes with the Wa33 anyways. Stick with the KR 2a3 tubes; they are already very good. As for the rectifiers, there are a lot of options out there and you can completely ignore the eml 5u4g/274b recs. Just go with the Tak274b.


----------



## ThanatosVI

mammal said:


> Your tube issues are a big scare for me, don't want to commit to WA33 if I will one day not be able to use it to its full potential  are there any other vendors/manufacturers having them in stock / producing them, or what's your long term plan?


Just don't get EML Tubes. They are prone to failure it seems. 
I heard similar issues about E.A.T KT88 Tubes. (Excellent sound coupled with relatively high failure rate at an insane price)
E.A.T 300B could be an alternative in sound quality,  but definitely check the specs before since the Wa33 doesn't work with all 300Bs only the 2.5V versions. (Also not sure if the durability issue were only with the KT88 or all E.A.T tubes)

I asked in an own thread about KR Tubes quality (sound and durability) since they are also on the pricier side. Would be nice if owners could comment on those aspects.
So far it seems like those are the most durable options among the pricy New production tubes.


----------



## mammal

ThanatosVI said:


> E.A.T 300B could be an alternative in sound quality, but definitely check the specs before since the Wa33 doesn't work with all 300Bs only the 2.5V versions. (Also not sure if the durability issue were only with the KT88 or all E.A.T tubes)


Is this why some people are buying 234 instead of 33? That is supports 300B?


----------



## Roasty

mammal said:


> Is this why some people are buying 234 instead of 33? That is supports 300B?



The 300b 2.5v may have a very sweet thick sound but it also has slightly less punch and tightness. It is a somewhat romantic tube, whereas the KR 2a3 sounds more energetic and "ready to go".

My advice is dont get too hung up on the 300b tube, or rather, don't choose the amp to match the tubes u want. After my poor eml experience with these tubes, I won't be going back for a second round.


----------



## mammal

Roasty said:


> My advice is dont get too hung up on the 300b tube, or rather, don't choose the amp to match the tubes u want. After my poor eml experience with these tubes, I won't be going back for a second round.


The simple fact is that I have no idea how tubes sound. I have always been a guy that loves DACs (sounds weird if you misread this sentence, haha). I have only had AMPs that were either integrated (Bartok or TT2) or SS (like V281). So I have no idea what to expect from a tube amp. Abyss seems to be sold on WA33 JPS + upgraded tubes and recommend it to me over Woo's JPS Elite edition.

I am now thinking to go with a cheaper WA5-LE amp, just so that I can test what tubes are about? I mainly listen to EDM, so for me it needs to have good PRaT. For example, adding M Scaler to HTT2 make it worse, I did not like how slow and lush the sound was, even if it was more "realistic".


----------



## Roasty

mammal said:


> The simple fact is that I have no idea how tubes sound. I have always been a guy that loves DACs (sounds weird if you misread this sentence, haha). I have only had AMPs that were either integrated (Bartok or TT2) or SS (like V281). So I have no idea what to expect from a tube amp. Abyss seems to be sold on WA33 JPS + upgraded tubes and recommend it to me over Woo's JPS Elite edition.
> 
> I am now thinking to go with a cheaper WA5-LE amp, just so that I can test what tubes are about? I mainly listen to EDM, so for me it needs to have good PRaT. For example, adding M Scaler to HTT2 make it worse, I did not like how slow and lush the sound was, even if it was more "realistic".



You do know... If you get the wa5LE amp.. You're still going to be curious about the wa33.. Ha ha ha ha! (extra ha for the emphasis).


----------



## mammal

Roasty said:


> You do know... If you get the wa5LE amp.. You're still going to be curious about the wa33.. Ha ha ha ha! (extra ha for the emphasis).


Very true, haha. I hope that I will keep wondering about this for too long, until dCS Rossini adds a headphone amplifier, and everyone will be saying that it is better than WA33, haha. But I doubt that will happen.


----------



## ThanatosVI

mammal said:


> Is this why some people are buying 234 instead of 33? That is supports 300B?


Actually nearly everyone including Woo recommends the Wa33 over 234 for headphone use.

Personally I think it is a matter of taste. 
Woo Wa5 LE in regular and upgraded version.(they already Support all 300Bs)
Woo Wa33 in regular JPS and EE versions 
Wa234..

And those are only amps in the high end class of a single manufacturer.


----------



## JLoud

I had the WA5le and moved up to the WA33. The 300b tube has a very nice midrange and spaciousness to it. However for EDM the 2A3 has more speed and punch. I too listen to a lot of EDM and would recommend the WA33 because of it.


----------



## JLoud

I know several people on here have had issues with EML tubes, but I have been running them in my amps for a while and have never had any issues. 300b, 2A3, and 5U4G. I found them to be excellent sounding tubes and a relative value.
I picked mine up for about half what Woo wants for KR tubes. I think they sound just as good or better. Personal taste and all, but I would still consider them.


----------



## Bigsecret

joseph69 said:


> Is it possible you're misunderstanding what Jac meant by saying he is going to send you a new tube? I'd think it would be sent to Music Reference/RAM Tubeworks to "Anthony" who is the representative for the company you made the purchase from and he'll ship it to you being he does have your address?


The email from Anthony was very clear that Jac would be sending the tube to me. When I responded to Anthony that Jac doesn't have my address Anthony never corrected to say the tube was coming to RAM then to me.


----------



## littlej0e (Jun 14, 2021)

Bigsecret said:


> The email from Anthony was very clear that Jac would be sending the tube to me. When I responded to Anthony that Jac doesn't have my address Anthony never corrected to say the tube was coming to RAM then to me.



Based on your, and other's, feedback the clear takeaway here is don't buy EML tubes expecting to have the warranty honored. I personally appreciate this message and everyone taking the time to convey it. Thanks...


----------



## Bigsecret

littlej0e said:


> Based on your, and other's, feedback the clear takeaway here is don't buy EML tubes expecting to have the warranty honored. I personally appreciate this message and everyone taking the time to convey it. Thanks...


So, to end this, I got an email from Jac this morning saying he was sending me a replacement tube and gave me me the tracking number. I still don't know where he planned on sending it. He admitted the internal parts are different from the tube that went bad so, clearly, not a match to my remaining good tube I have. I told him I don't want his mismatched tube and would return it if it ever got to me but then he replied he had pulled it from shipment. At this point, to allow him to think he has satisfied his warranty promises by sending me a mismatched tube after ghosting me for the past 9 mos is not something I'm willing to do. As I've said before - their tubes are very good. And very expensive. Just hope and pray you don't get a dud.


----------



## littlej0e

mammal said:


> You are a gold mine for reading material, thanks buddy. With regards to JPS wiring, I have actually owned their high end Superconductor cable when I had Diana V2 and I honestly could not hear a difference, perhaps this is beyond my level of hearing ability (I am not trying to discount other people’s experiences). So JPS wiring could potentially in this amp be where I save some money (seems to be like 2k). Most likely I will end up getting it all at some point, but I should definitely exercise some patience here. I think part of my problem right now is that I am stuck at home, so listening nonstop to music (while I work for example). However, once the office reopens, I will be able to listen like 1 hour before bed time a day, then maybe the money will go somewhere else. It is also true that before pandemic, I was less into head-fi, so maybe I shouldn’t rush things, provided I already own a good enough setup.



I wanted to send you a quick update on tubes: I tried the stock tubes and they do make a substantial difference in sound. The power tube in particular seemed to make the biggest difference and the stock tube seemed to have slightly better bass slam/impact over the Tak, but everything else sounded muddy, closed off, and restrained. The Tak sounds clearer, wider and richer overall and definitely worth the upgrade in my opinion.  Also, my impressions of the WA33 Elite Edition with JSP "Alumiloy" wiring are in the next post below if you are interested.


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## littlej0e (Dec 21, 2021)

After much difficulty trying to find a proper means of expression, here are my impressions of the WA33 Elite Edition with JPS "Alumiloy" wiring (hereafter commonly referred to as the WA33).

*TL;DR -* Listening to music through the WA33 is akin to listening in a pitch black, empty 747 airplane hanger. The sense of depth, space, and pinpoint imaging are truly amazing. The WA33 is extremely sensitive to whatever is around and put through it. If you have any weaknesses in your chain, the WA33 will amplify them. It will painstakingly reveal every triumph, wart, sublimely delivered note and poorly mixed catastrophe. In other words, the WA33 is the cherry on top of your delicious super audio nerd ice cream sundae and probably shouldn't be used in any other compacity. Furthermore, it will do just about anything you ask it to, then smile at you and say, “thank you, sir! May I have another?!?” Needless to say, this thing is pretty nuts...


*Sound

Staging & Imaging - *The WA33 has next-level staging and imaging. It is the most "3D" sounding amp I have ever heard without fake software trickery. No other amp I've tried comes anywhere close. If I had to pick one specific feature, I'd say staging and imaging are the most impressive "headline" features of the WA33. For reference, imagine taking a piece of paper and curving it into a semi-circle around your face. That is basically the soundstage you get from 90% of amps -a semi-circular, but mostly flat stage presentation with little-to-no depth. Even if you do manage to get a decent sense of depth by focusing on one specific detail or by using "test tracks", everything still tends to bleed together into a curved “wall of sound" when you relax your focus. Not so with the WA33. Depth is conveyed with a real, palpable sense of space with near pin-point accuracy. Almost like the WA33 somehow assigns different volume levels to individual sounds and instruments, then carefully places them in different locations within a three dimensional space. On some tracks, you can hear the precise depth where sounds are coming from relative to the microphones. It is pretty friggin' amazing, but can also completely ruin your favorite music. Be warned. It can make vocals sound recessed into oblivion, make instruments sound uncomfortably close to your ears, or any combination of the two. Again...mix, source, and surrounding components (in that order) are absolutely vital with this amplifier.

_*Detail, Clarity, & Separation - *_Surprise, surprise...all three are fantastic. If you are reading this chances are you already know what good detail, clarity, and separation sound like. If you don’t, listen to Apocalyptica’s cello players’ breathing on “Nothing Else Matters”, Billi Eilish delicately pressing her tongue against the roof of her mouth to accentuate the word "that" at the end of each chorus line in "When the Party's Over", or the distinction between wind, strings, percussion, and horns in London Symphony Orchestra's "Symphony No. 1 in C minor ("The Bells of Zlonice"), B9". The WA33 just flat out excels in all three of these categories. I should also mention the WA33 sounds more like a solid state amp and doesn't sound tube'y at all to my ear. It is quite extraordinary. Are the tubes in this thing just for show?!? Did Woo Audio secretly hide a SS amp in the WA33, because that’s what it sounds like to me.

*Tone & Impact - *next to staging and imaging, tone is my next favorite part of the WA33. It has an unmistakable tone compared to anything else I’ve heard. Almost like the entire frequency range has been somehow elevated into a higher, more pure realm of existence. Honestly, I think this is the genesis of the euphoric sound I hear coming from this amp. To be clear, I wouldn’t consider the sound to be the most accurate or analytical in existence, but definitely the most musical and emotionally engaging. It really has a tone all its own and you just have to hear it to understand what I’m talking about. Impact is quite good as well. It reminds me of the HSA-1b in that regard. It isn’t over-the-top bassy, but can still kick like a mule when you ask it to. The bass impact does seem to suffer a bit with the Tak power tube, but the trade-offs are well worth it in my opinion. Again…this amp is incredibly dependent on whatever you feed it and will do just about anything you ask it to.

*Notes*

_*Sensitivity -*_ To beat a dead, rotten, and decomposing horse, hopefully for the last time, the WA33 is extremely sensitive to (and will likely scale linearly with) whatever you put around and through it. I really can't emphasize this enough. For this reason, I honestly don't know what the true limits of this amplifier really are. Incidentally, I'm starting to understand why the WA33 supposedly pairs so well with the Abyss AB 1266 Phi TCs (though I have yet to hear them on the WA33). Both seem to be the undisputed kings of transparency.

*Recommendations -* I can’t blindly recommend the WA33 for one reason: synesthesia. This system generates the very best sound I have ever personally experienced, and not by a particularly close margin. However, I did some extended listening tests with my wife and mother-in-law and discovered that while they were impressed with the sound, particularly with staging and emotional impact, the "wow" experiences were rather short lived. They kept saying, "wow...this sounds amazing...it's like you are really there". However, by the third listening session the "wow" effect seemed to have worn off almost completely unless I played a well recorded track they had never heard before. Furthermore, they both experienced _far_ less euphoria than I did when listening. These are particularly interesting results and lead me to believe the WA33 just so happens to pair particularly well with my synesthesia. The key takeaway here is find a way to listen to it before you buy it (I realize this can be quite difficult) and don't buy it blindly without listening to it like I did. I just so happened to get extremely lucky.

*Value -* Is it worth 20k? Obviously, that is for you decide. Personally, I would have paid twice as much. Simply because the euphoric sound, synesthesia triggers, and overall emotional impact are unparalleled and miles better than anything else I've tried. The only thing I have experienced that is arguably better is playing live music with other people (especially those with actual talent) - that’s it. Even that is a questionable comparison considering we were always playing on lower-tier instruments (see cheap guitars and out-of-tune pianos). Anyway…putting aside my relatively unique condition and use case, I don’t think I would spend 20k on this amp unless I was prepared to spend at least twice that on surrounding components to get anything approaching maximum performance out of the WA33. Otherwise, there isn’t much point in getting a WA33 in the first place. Regardless…listen to it, see what you think, then make your own decision.

*Heat -* The dual-stack aluminum chassis on the WA33 is basically a giant heat sink. Be mindful of whatever you put directly above or below it. You might be able to legitimately slow cook an egg on this thing - it can get _that_ hot. It can also significantly warm up a room. Be warned.

*Sound Alteration - *HQPlayer, Roon convolution filters, upsampling, digital EQ, or other digital alteration can have a significant impact on sound with the WA33. They all seem to compress the staging and/or imaging coming through the amp to varying degrees. This is particularly noticeable with some Roon convolution filters I've been using for the SR1a. So much so that I honestly don't use them anymore. The same is generally true with HQPlayer, though to a far lesser degree. I'm not sure why this is the case, but it's pretty easy to spot the differences and I wouldn’t consider myself to have a particularly sensitive ear.

_*Review Retraction -*_ I recently reviewed a custom streaming server I had built through Pareto Audio (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/pareto-audio-custom-streaming-server-review.958204/). Unfortunately, I have to retract what I said about hearing no difference between 44.1k from Roon versus PCM upsampling to 768k with HQPlayer. I can unmistakably hear the difference through the WA33 that I simply couldn't hear through the HSA-1b alone. Upsampling through HQP adds notable smoothness along with slightly more clarity and detail to the sound, but still compress the stage a bit. That's the trade off, so pick your poison. Personally, I find it hard to use anything other than the native stream from Roon, despite it having slightly less clarity, as I find the overall presentation to be superior. The presentation straight through to the WA33 is just that good.

*Video Games -* I'm an avid video game player and particularly fond of First Person Shooters. The "3D" audio out of the WA33 in Counter-Strike: Global Offensive with the Raal SR1a's should be outlawed. I can hear a terrorist fart from halfway across a map and know the exact direction it is blowing in the wind. Interestingly, this is the biggest and most grandiose sense of 3D audio I get from the WA33. It actually took some getting used to as my brain needed to adjust. This could be due to ancillary 5.1 audio processing in CSGO, or a laundry list of other things, I’m not really sure. But it’s friggin’ AWESOME.

*Beauty -* Ok, ok…I know this is completely pointless and subjective, but damn this thing looks pretty!!!


*Comparisons

iFi Pro iCAN -* No contest. At all. The clarity isn't terrible compared to the WA33 (or the HSA-1b for that matter), but certainly isn’t at, or anywhere near, the same level. This amp also murders the holographic presentation. It made everything sound constrained like it was inside a tiny, one-dimensional box. I’ll just stop there. Comparing a $1,500 amp to a $4,500 amp, then again to a $20,000 amp isn't particularly fair and akin to comparing a Lamborghini with a golf cart…but I thought I would include it as a point of reference anyway.

*HSA-1b -* clarity is a little behind the WA33, but not by much. It also has a slightly more colored and "exciting" sound with slightly better bass impact (with the Ether C Flow 1.1's anyway). The WA33 is significantly better in all other aspects, especially staging and imaging. As an aside, I wasn't particularly happy with the maximum volume level out of the HSA-1b. It wasn't until I started using the the WA33 as a preamp that I was finally able to get the volume I wanted. I'm probably half-deaf now, but at least I have MoAr MuSiCs! All things considered, the HSA-1b is actually pretty damn impressive when considering it's price-to-performance relative to the WA33.


*Final thoughts

Personal Opinion - *The WA33 EE JPS is a sublime translator of electrical signals into talent. It is a conduit for relaying the very essence of music. I would best describe the sound as an elegant bell skipping across a clear lake just before sunrise. The notes carefully reverberate in effortless whispers of sound that gently ride the rippling waves to the edge of your imagination. It is so calm, precise, warm, open, smooth, peaceful, emotional, euphoric, and deeply impactful. It is a transparently transcendent amplifier and completely unrivaled compared to anything else I've tried.

*Paradoxical Opinion - *The problem with my aforementioned opinions and observations is I am unable to distinguish between what is triggering my synesthesia and what is reality for 99% of people. Therefore, I cannot possibly provide an accurate review or impressions of the WA33. No matter how hard I try, I simply can’t overcome this paradox. If you are interested in the WA33 EE JPS, and you should be, I highly recommend finding a way to try it yourself. It was definitely worth it for me, but I'm not you. Please take the information above within the context of my situation and use it to make your own decision.

Hope you enjoyed the read. Feel free to hit me up with any questions.


----------



## mammal

littlej0e said:


> After much difficulty trying to find a proper means of expression, here are my impressions of the WA33 Elite Edition with JSP "Alumiloy" wiring (hereafter commonly referred to as the WA33).
> 
> *TL;DR -* Listening to music through the WA33 is akin to listening in a pitch black, empty 747 airplane hanger. The sense of depth, space, and pinpoint imaging are truly amazing. The WA33 is extremely sensitive to whatever is around and put through it. If you have any weaknesses in your chain, the WA33 will amplify them. It will painstakingly reveal every triumph, wart, sublimely delivered note and poorly mixed catastrophe. In other words, the WA33 is the cherry on top of your delicious super audio nerd ice cream sundae and probably shouldn't be used in any other compacity. Furthermore, it will do just about anything you ask it to, then smile at you and say, “thank you, sir! May I have another?!?” Needless to say, this thing is pretty nuts...
> 
> ...


Absolutely beautiful write up, thank you for taking the time and sharing with us. I appreciate your honesty about your condition, as it is clearly contributing to your experience. I love your analogy about the soundstage being a sheet of paper wrapped around your head for most amps, where as with WA33 it is a holographic 3D space. Also good detail about how those Tubes affected the low end, truly remarkable review! Now you just need to get some 80k+ DAC setup to pair with WA33, to make it truly shine, haha (just joking, Holo May is TOTL gear already).


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## Ciggavelli

littlej0e said:


> After much difficulty trying to find a proper means of expression, here are my impressions of the WA33 Elite Edition with JSP "Alumiloy" wiring (hereafter commonly referred to as the WA33).
> 
> *TL;DR -* Listening to music through the WA33 is akin to listening in a pitch black, empty 747 airplane hanger. The sense of depth, space, and pinpoint imaging are truly amazing. The WA33 is extremely sensitive to whatever is around and put through it. If you have any weaknesses in your chain, the WA33 will amplify them. It will painstakingly reveal every triumph, wart, sublimely delivered note and poorly mixed catastrophe. In other words, the WA33 is the cherry on top of your delicious super audio nerd ice cream sundae and probably shouldn't be used in any other compacity. Furthermore, it will do just about anything you ask it to, then smile at you and say, “thank you, sir! May I have another?!?” Needless to say, this thing is pretty nuts...
> 
> ...


Great review man!  

You do make a good point about the synesthesia aspect.  I need to remember that not everybody has that condition, and I should take that into consideration when discussing different components with others in the future.


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## littlej0e (Jun 17, 2021)

mammal said:


> Absolutely beautiful write up, thank you for taking the time and sharing with us. I appreciate your honesty about your condition, as it is clearly contributing to your experience. I love your analogy about the soundstage being a sheet of paper wrapped around your head for most amps, where as with WA33 it is a holographic 3D space. Also good detail about how those Tubes affected the low end, truly remarkable review! Now you just need to get some 80k+ DAC setup to pair with WA33, to make it truly shine, haha (just joking, Holo May is TOTL gear already).


HA! I mean...you aren't wrong. That's the biggest takeaway from my short time with the WA33 - it will likely scale with whatever you put around it. This is actually an interesting question - what DAC in the 1k - 20k price range would be an upgrade over the May? The May has phenomenal performance and scalability, especially relative to it's price, and any DAC that replaces it would have to provide a significant jump in SQ for me to pull the trigger. I demoed the Chord Dave, Rockna Wavedream, along with a few others at the local dealers. I discovered that I tend to prefer the sound of R2R DACs over most Delta Sigmas, even though DS's tend to have slightly better clarity and higher resolution. Most R2Rs seem to have a smoothness with deeper tones akin to a vinyl record player and most DS's seem to sound sharper and flatter. I could handle loosing the smoothness of the R2R and adding the sharpness of the DS if the SQ was that good, but it would have to have Rockstar-level holographics similar to the May or it's a non-starter. Regardless, I would have to try it on _my _system with the WA33 or the demoes will be almost worthless (yet another lesson learned) and that obviously complicates things. Perhaps a dCS Vivaldi stack? I can't really afford to drop a 100k on a DAC though, haha.

This also raises another interesting question about the WA33...How much of the WA33's phenomenal staging and imaging are due to pairing it with the May versus the WA33 itself?!? Sigh. It never ends...

Regardless, I'm pretty sure my wallet is going to pack up it's bills and leave if I continue down this path for much longer...



Ciggavelli said:


> Great review man!
> 
> You do make a good point about the synesthesia aspect.  I need to remember that not everybody has that condition, and I should take that into consideration when discussing different components with others in the future.



Thanks, Cigg! 

Yeah, I'm afraid to recommend anything to anyone as a result. It's so hard to tell where synesthesia ends and typical human experience begins.


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## koven

littlej0e said:


> After much difficulty trying to find a proper means of expression, here are my impressions of the WA33 Elite Edition with JSP "Alumiloy" wiring (hereafter commonly referred to as the WA33).
> 
> *TL;DR -* Listening to music through the WA33 is akin to listening in a pitch black, empty 747 airplane hanger. The sense of depth, space, and pinpoint imaging are truly amazing. The WA33 is extremely sensitive to whatever is around and put through it. If you have any weaknesses in your chain, the WA33 will amplify them. It will painstakingly reveal every triumph, wart, sublimely delivered note and poorly mixed catastrophe. In other words, the WA33 is the cherry on top of your delicious super audio nerd ice cream sundae and probably shouldn't be used in any other compacity. Furthermore, it will do just about anything you ask it to, then smile at you and say, “thank you, sir! May I have another?!?” Needless to say, this thing is pretty nuts...
> 
> ...



Nice to see your set up is finally complete! I chuckled at the thought of playing CSGO on this setup.  In regards to your HQP findings, I am surprised to see you think the stage compresses when upsampled. Maybe I'll have to try Redbook again but generally HQP seems to greatly elevate all aspects of SQ for me, including stage, with the May / WA33.


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## littlej0e (Jun 17, 2021)

koven said:


> Nice to see your set up is finally complete! I chuckled at the thought of playing CSGO on this setup.


Thanks, man! It's been a long time coming. Thanks again for the Pareto recommendation - that thing is nuts. As for CSGO, this has to be some of the very best CSGO audio available on planet earth! The depth and accuracy of the stage is truly mind blowing. It's not a particularly large stage top to bottom, but goes so deep you are seemingly only limited by volume levels. It's pretty crazy when you hear footsteps that sound like they are physically 1ft/30cm away from your head. There is some serious brain trickery going on here. I frequently catch myself looking to the left and right to make sure the sounds are indeed coming from the headphones and not the room around me.

Speaking of trickery, I actually reached out to Jussi at HQPlayer to see if he could help me rig up some sort of audio loop-back setup in Windows to upsample video game audio. Unfortunately, the delay required to do so makes it pretty much unusable for most video games, especially FPS's. C'est la vie



koven said:


> In regards to your HQP findings, I am surprised to see you think the stage compresses when upsampled. Maybe I'll have to try Redbook again but generally HQP seems to greatly elevate all aspects of SQ for me, including stage, with the May / WA33.



This is _so_ interesting... Maybe I didn't test it with the right tracks or used the wrong filters (I've mostly been testing using the sinc-M, S, and L, filters). I'll do some more testing and see what's what.


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## koven

littlej0e said:


> Thanks, man! It's been a long time coming. Thanks again for the Pareto recommendation - that thing is nuts. As for CSGO, this has to be some of the very best CSGO audio available on planet earth! The depth and accuracy of the stage is truly mind blowing. It's not a particularly large stage top to bottom, but goes so deep you are seemingly only limited by volume levels. It's pretty crazy when you hear footsteps that sound like they are physically 1ft/30cm away from your head. There is some serious brain trickery going on here. I frequently catch myself looking to the left and right to make sure the sounds are indeed coming from the headphones and not the room around me.
> 
> Speaking of trickery, I actually reached out to Jussi at HQPlayer to see if he could help me rig up some sort of audio loop-back setup in Windows to upsample video game audio. Unfortunately, the delay required to do so makes it pretty much unusable for most video games, especially FPS's. C'est la vie
> 
> ...



I can imagine delayed audio in a game like CSGO would not be ideal. 

Yeah a lot of variables so it's hard to say, but play around with the setup, perhaps you can find some improvement in stage perception from doing so. I see you have a WiFi antennae, no way to get Ethernet in that room I assume? Are you mostly streaming or using local files? I have never used WiFi so not sure on it's impact to streaming quality, if any. As for filters, try the newer sinc-Mx and see how you like it, that's become my favorite personally.


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## mammal

littlej0e said:


> HA! I mean...you aren't wrong. That's the biggest takeaway from my short time with the WA33 - it will likely scale with whatever you put around it. This is actually an interesting question - what DAC in the 1k - 20k price range would be an upgrade over the May? The May has phenomenal performance and scalability, especially relative to it's price, and any DAC that replaces it would have to provide a significant jump in SQ for me to pull the trigger. I demoed the Chord Dave, Rockna Wavedream, along with a few others at the local dealers. I discovered that I tend to prefer the sound of R2R DACs over most Delta Sigmas, even though DS's tend to have slightly better clarity and higher resolution. Most R2Rs seem to have a smoothness with deeper tones akin to a vinyl record player and most DS's seem to sound sharper and flatter. I could handle loosing the smoothness of the R2R and adding the sharpness of the DS if the SQ was that good, but it would have to have Rockstar-level holographics similar to the May or it's a non-starter. Regardless, I would have to try it on _my _system with the WA33 or the demoes will be almost worthless (yet another lesson learned) and that obviously complicates things. Perhaps a dCS Vivaldi stack? I can't really afford to drop a 100k on a DAC though, haha.
> 
> This also raises another interesting question about the WA33...How much of the WA33's phenomenal staging and imaging are due to pairing it with the May versus the WA33 itself?!? Sigh. It never ends...


Don't know why, but pairing 20k WA33 with 5k May feels like you must be missing out on a big chunk of WA33's potential, 15k in fact of it, haha. Just kidding, I know things don't work like this. But definitely would be cool to hear your TOTL WA33 on something like Rossini. This brings another question, is there anything after WA33 that one could even consider? A headphone amp for 50k? For that we are talking about Shangri-la Sr amp, or HE-1 full system.


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## littlej0e (Jun 17, 2021)

koven said:


> I can imagine delayed audio in a game like CSGO would not be ideal.
> 
> Yeah a lot of variables so it's hard to say, but play around with the setup, perhaps you can find some improvement in stage perception from doing so. I see you have a WiFi antennae, no way to get Ethernet in that room I assume? Are you mostly streaming or using local files? I have never used WiFi so not sure on it's impact to streaming quality, if any. As for filters, try the newer sinc-Mx and see how you like it, that's become my favorite personally.



I'm baking my noodle as to what could be causing this, but like you said - it's really tough to say.  I just did some head-to-head testing with HQP sinc-m filter (I'll try the MX filter as soon as I can!):

*Eagles - Hotel California (live) - Hell Freezes Over:* much better detail and resolution with warmer tone, slightly better depth and stage with HQP. You can actually feel the depth of the crowd relative to the microphone placement. I personally prefer _with _HQP.
*Avi Kaplan - Change on the Rise - I'll Get By:* slightly lower resolution than HQP, but the stage is slightly wider, much deeper, and much more 3d/holographic without HQP. I personally prefer _without _HQP.
*The Piano Guys - All of Me - The Piano Guys 2:* resolution was slightly better, tone was warmer, and stage was deeper with HQP. Strangely, I found it easier to pick out individual notes (especially sustained notes) without HQP. I personally prefer _with_ HQP.
*Buddah-Bar - Mir - Elements: *HQP was better in every aspect, other than I found the stage to be very close to the same, albeit slightly shallower with HQP.  I personally prefer _with _HQP
_*Feverkin - October - Calendar Project: *_HQP had shockingly better clarity and detail (just wow), but the stage was much deeper with ever-so-slightly better imaging without HQP.  This one is a _tie _for me, just because I can't decided what I love more about this track - god-tier detail and clarity or transportable holographics and imaging. Both are flat out nuts.
*Pentatonix - Can't Help Falling in Love - PTX Vol. IV - Classics:* This one was fairly close, but HQP and has better tone and overall emotional impact. I couldn't tell the difference in stage with and without. I personally prefer _with_ HQP

That's 4 for HQP, 1 tie, and 1 against (I purposefully omitted the tracks I originally tested with for my WA33 review in an attempt to be as objective as possible). Clearly, I should have done more extensive testing with a more varied track selection. But like most things with this setup, my preference seems to be somewhat dependent on mix and tracks. I also tend to switch back and fourth between NOS and OS mode on the May depending on the track as I discovered I get slightly better resolution, impact, and stage width from NOS, and slightly more depth and better holographics from OS mode. Seems like the best theoretical jack-of-all-trades combo would be HQP with OS mode on the May. Boy...the nuances can really kill ya in this hobby.

I have wireless access for my external devices, but my main listening rig is directly connected. For reference, this is the full chain I'm using: Raal Requisite SR1a Ear Speakers > Raal SR1028 Silver cable (3m) > Raal HSA-1b Amplifier/AudioQuest Firebird Power Cable (1m) > AudioQuest Fire XLR Cables (.75m) > WA33 EE JPS Amplifier (in preamp mode)/AudioQuest Firebird Power Cable (1m)> AudioQuest Fire XLR Cables (1m) > Holo May KTE Edition Digital-to-Analog Converter/AudioQuest Firebird Power Cable (1m) > AudioQuest Diamond USB > Pareto Audio Custom Server/HDPLEX 500W External Power Supply/AudioQuest Firebird Power Cable (2m) > Roon > Qobuz/Locally Stored Music.


----------



## mammal

Ciggavelli said:


> You do make a good point about the synesthesia aspect. I need to remember that not everybody has that condition, and I should take that into consideration when discussing different components with others in the future.


I do not mean to be rude or disrespectful, genuinely want to learn - how does synesthesia affect your senses when you listen to "dark music", things like funeral / sad metal, or melancholic songs. What do you see/feel with this type of music? Very curious!


----------



## littlej0e

mammal said:


> Don't know why, but pairing 20k WA33 with 5k May feels like you must be missing out on a big chunk of WA33's potential, 15k in fact of it, haha. Just kidding, I know things don't work like this. But definitely would be cool to hear your TOTL WA33 on something like Rossini.


I totally agree. I'm thinking about it now more than ever after getting the WA33. I'll see what I can do about getting a Rossini stack for comparison. That seems like the only potential step up in this price range.



mammal said:


> This brings another question, is there anything after WA33 that one could even consider? A headphone amp for 50k? For that we are talking about Shangri-la Sr amp, or HE-1 full system.



Fantastic question. I have no idea. Truthfully, I can't imaging hearing better and I don't want to, haha


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## littlej0e

mammal said:


> I do not mean to be rude or disrespectful, genuinely want to learn - how does synesthesia affect your senses when you listen to "dark music", things like funeral / sad metal, or melancholic songs. What do you see/feel with this type of music? Very curious!



I'm quite interested in Cigg's take on this a well. I personally find music has the power to affect (and often times direct) my mood and emotional state unlike anything else I've experienced, especially on this system.


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## mammal

littlej0e said:


> I totally agree. I'm thinking about it now more than ever after getting the WA33. I'll see what I can do about getting a Rossini stack for comparison. That seems like the only potential step up in this price range.


If you ever get (even if just a loaner) Rossini for your WA33, please ping me or write a review. That is kinda the direction I am trying to work towards myself. For cost effectivity I am now with Bartok, until I can upgrade to Rossini - yes, I am loving dCS DACs that much. But with Rossini you NEED an amplifier, unless by the time I save up Rossini comes up with a headphone out, haha.


littlej0e said:


> I'm quite interested in Cigg's take on this a well. I personally find music has the power to affect (and often times direct) my mood and emotional state unlike anything else I've experienced, especially on this system.


Thank you for sharing. When I was younger and had some weed, I noticed that (if left alone) I lost myself in music more and uplifting songs made me cry with joy, sad songs made me cry with sorrow, and trippy songs made me freak out. Is it something like this for you?


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## Ciggavelli (Jun 17, 2021)

mammal said:


> I do not mean to be rude or disrespectful, genuinely want to learn - how does synesthesia affect your senses when you listen to "dark music", things like funeral / sad metal, or melancholic songs. What do you see/feel with this type of music? Very curious!


One thing you should know about me is that I'm a fairly negative person (for life reasons that aren't important to this discussion).  I hate positively and positive music.  I'm used to being in a depressed like state.  I can relate and feel depressing music very well.  With Funeral Doom, Suicidal/Depressive Black Metal, etc., I see a chasm, with dark waterfalls on the perimeter.  I see spikes and sharp edges.  With very dense and heavy music, I see waves running through me, from the horizon to my body.  It's not a very colorful experience, but I think that fits with depressing music.  Basically, I see a gloomy setting.  With grindcore or death metal, I see various shapes that turn on and off really quickly to the drums and guitars.  I then also see many abstract shapes that play with the different instruments.  It's kinda hard to describe.  I don't know if that helps, but maybe

The depressing songs fit well with my typical mindstate and emotions.  I think that's probably why I am attracted to that kind of music.  It's just a more amplified expression of these negative feelings and emotions


----------



## mammal

Ciggavelli said:


> One thing you should know about me is that I'm a fairly negative person (for life reasons that aren't important to this discussion).  I hate positively and positive music.  I'm used to being in a depressed like state.  I can relate and feel depressing music very well.  With Funeral Doom, Suicidal/Depressive Black Metal, etc., I see a chasm, with dark waterfalls on the perimeter.  I see spikes and sharp edges.  With very dense and heavy music, I see waves running through me, from the horizon to my body.  It's not a very colorful experience, but I think that fits with depressing music.  Basically, I see a gloomy setting.  With grindcore or death metal, I see various shapes that turn on and off really quickly to the drums and guitars.  I then also see many abstract shapes that play with the different instruments.  It's kinda hard to describe.  I don't know if that helps, but maybe
> 
> The depressing songs fit well with my typical mindstate and emotions.  I think that's probably why I am attracted to that kind of music.  It's just a more amplified expression of these negative feelings and emotions


Thank you for sharing this so openly, really appreciate it.


----------



## jlbrach

mammal said:


> If you ever get (even if just a loaner) Rossini for your WA33, please ping me or write a review. That is kinda the direction I am trying to work towards myself. For cost effectivity I am now with Bartok, until I can upgrade to Rossini - yes, I am loving dCS DACs that much. But with Rossini you NEED an amplifier, unless by the time I save up Rossini comes up with a headphone out, haha.
> 
> Thank you for sharing. When I was younger and had some weed, I noticed that (if left alone) I lost myself in music more and uplifting songs made me cry with joy, sad songs made me cry with sorrow, and trippy songs made me freak out. Is it something like this for you?


without weed I have these kinds of reactions to music...some music takes me back to my former days, other music upon the first chords make me feel good...others I immediately feel melancholy and these reactions have been amplified as I have moved up the food chain in terms of my equipment


----------



## Ciggavelli

mammal said:


> Thank you for sharing this so openly, really appreciate it.


Yeah, I'm pretty open, in general.  Which is sometimes good and sometimes bad


----------



## chief79

Hi All, I'm hoping for tube advice and recommendations for the WA33 standard edition. The amp has been great so far but i'm an absolute beginner w.r.t. tubes and options. i've tried going through the web for recommendations and options but not too sure where to start in terms of upgrading from the standard tubes to "better" ones. i've gleaned that KR Audio 2A3 HP are potentially good upgrades but i'm lost on the other tubes (6C45 and 5U4G). Would appreciate any suggestions and recommendations.

I feel perhaps additional detail and openness could be good upgrades to the sound.

Thanks!!


----------



## pippen99

As to the 6C45 pretty much stuck with the Electro Harmonix that Woo offers.  

Rectifiers:  Sophia 274B Mesh, KR 274B HP, Takatsuki 274B.  That is in ascending order of cost.  The Sophia is a nice tube that I had in My WA5 and can be had for not much money.  I just sold my KR to get another Tak.  The KR was very good but not quite up to the Tak.  A couple of us had Taks go bad at about one year but hopefully that was just bad luck.

I cannot comment on the KR 2A3 not having heard them.  Sophia also makes 2A3 tubes.  Woo has explicitly now stated that 300B 2.5V are not recommended for the WA33 so I would not go there.  Less expensive are the PSVane tubes.  Do a search on this thread and you will find some comments

*DO NOT PURCHASE EML TUBES!  *Warranty issues abound.

If you have the budget go straight to the top.  The WA33 will reward you with audio bliss.  I will be listening to mine in two minutes.  Good luck


----------



## chief79

pippen99 said:


> As to the 6C45 pretty much stuck with the Electro Harmonix that Woo offers.
> 
> Rectifiers:  Sophia 274B Mesh, KR 274B HP, Takatsuki 274B.  That is in ascending order of cost.  The Sophia is a nice tube that I had in My WA5 and can be had for not much money.  I just sold my KR to get another Tak.  The KR was very good but not quite up to the Tak.  A couple of us had Taks go bad at about one year but hopefully that was just bad luck.
> 
> ...


Thanks! Just to clarify when you say top, are you referring to the Takatsuki 274B? What's the top re. 2A3 tubes?

Thanks again!


----------



## pippen99

Yes I consider the Takatsuki 274B to be the top rectifier.  That is why I bought another after my first fried at 13 months on a 12 month warranty with no give and take on the warranty.  Fortunately another member sold me his lightly used Tak 274B because he preferred the KR 274B with the KR 2A3 HP tubes.  He heard a synergy having the all KR tube lineup.  Remember this all subjective since my ears are not yours.

I have the EML 2A3 Mesh.  They sound really good but again cannot compare them to KR 2A3.  I bought them as a lower cost alternative to KR.  Later I gave in to the flavor of the month and bought EML 300B 2.5v before Woo warned against them.  Right now half that quad is in Germany awaiting warranty replacement?  They have been there two months.  The EML 2A3s were very noisy for the first 300 hours before settling down.  Even now occasionally they will “burble” for a few minutes.  I am just waiting for them to fail. I expect warranty problems and will purchase a KR quad.  Again the EMLs sound really good.  You”pays your money and takes your chances”


----------



## chief79

pippen99 said:


> Yes I consider the Takatsuki 274B to be the top rectifier.  That is why I bought another after my first fried at 13 months on a 12 month warranty with no give and take on the warranty.  Fortunately another member sold me his lightly used Tak 274B because he preferred the KR 274B with the KR 2A3 HP tubes.  He heard a synergy having the all KR tube lineup.  Remember this all subjective since my ears are not yours.
> 
> I have the EML 2A3 Mesh.  They sound really good but again cannot compare them to KR 2A3.  I bought them as a lower cost alternative to KR.  Later I gave in to the flavor of the month and bought EML 300B 2.5v before Woo warned against them.  Right now half that quad is in Germany awaiting warranty replacement?  They have been there two months.  The EML 2A3s were very noisy for the first 300 hours before settling down.  Even now occasionally they will “burble” for a few minutes.  I am just waiting for them to fail. I expect warranty problems and will purchase a KR quad.  Again the EMLs sound really good.  You”pays your money and takes your chances”


Very helpful! Thanks so much!


----------



## GPD1

Hi.. Has anyone had any experience in comparing the the KR Audio 2A3 ( stock ) v the KR Audio 2A3 - HP ( high performance ) ? Any significant difference ?


----------



## ThanatosVI

GPD1 said:


> Hi.. Has anyone had any experience in comparing the the KR Audio 2A3 ( stock ) v the KR Audio 2A3 - HP ( high performance ) ? Any significant difference ?


Interested in this as well


----------



## Darkliner

chief79 said:


> Hi All, I'm hoping for tube advice and recommendations for the WA33 standard edition. The amp has been great so far but i'm an absolute beginner w.r.t. tubes and options. i've tried going through the web for recommendations and options but not too sure where to start in terms of upgrading from the standard tubes to "better" ones. i've gleaned that KR Audio 2A3 HP are potentially good upgrades but i'm lost on the other tubes (6C45 and 5U4G). Would appreciate any suggestions and recommendations.
> 
> I feel perhaps additional detail and openness could be good upgrades to the sound.
> 
> Thanks!!


Hello!
I use wa33 with abyss phi tc headphones.
My favourite tube combination is KR-Audio 274b and KR-Audio 2a3s along with 645 Electro Harmonix.
I feel tak 274b is very good too having used it in my system before.
But with abyss headphones using full KR combination is better sounding for me.


----------



## chief79

Darkliner said:


> Hello!
> I use wa33 with abyss phi tc headphones.
> My favourite tube combination is KR-Audio 274b and KR-Audio 2a3s along with 645 Electro Harmonix.
> I feel tak 274b is very good too having used it in my system before.
> But with abyss headphones using full KR combination is better sounding for me.


Thanks! There seems to be some benefit using tubes from the same manufacturer which I think I’m might go with! Unfortunately I can’t afford to buy and tear a variety of tubes to find the perfect combination…


----------



## MrCypruz

pippen99 said:


> Woo has explicitly now stated that 300B 2.5V are not recommended for the WA33





pippen99 said:


> EML 300B 2.5v before Woo warned against them.


@pippen99 when was this statement made by Woo and where I can read it please? I’ve been away from HF for quite sometime and have been running the 300B 2.5V on my WA33.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## littlej0e

MrCypruz said:


> @pippen99 when was this statement made by Woo and where I can read it please? I’ve been away from HF for quite sometime and have been running the 300B 2.5V on my WA33.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Page 89 of this very thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/woos-new-flagship-wa33.843710/page-89#post-16271311

"We do not recommend using 300B (2.5v) tubes with WA33.

We designed WA33 for 2A3 tubes, 300B tubes would impact the designed performance and noise-floor of the amplifier."


----------



## MrCypruz

littlej0e said:


> Page 89 of this very thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/woos-new-flagship-wa33.843710/page-89#post-16271311
> 
> "We do not recommend using 300B (2.5v) tubes with WA33.
> 
> We designed WA33 for 2A3 tubes, 300B tubes would impact the designed performance and noise-floor of the amplifier."


Thank you very much @littlej0e. Off the 300B 2.5v go so as the 300B lushness…time to go back to the 2A3 tight sound.


----------



## mammal

GPD1 said:


> Hi.. Has anyone had any experience in comparing the the KR Audio 2A3 ( stock ) v the KR Audio 2A3 - HP ( high performance ) ? Any significant difference ?


The only thing I was able to dig out in this 104 pages long thread is that 2AE HP’s sound better than 2AE - link to Jan 2020 post



pippen99 said:


> *DO NOT PURCHASE EML TUBES! *Warranty issues abound.


Sad thing, I believe I read somewhere they were supposed to have 5 years of warranty?


----------



## ThanatosVI

mammal said:


> The only thing I was able to dig out in this 104 pages long thread is that 2AE HP’s sound better than 2AE - link to Jan 2020 post
> 
> 
> Sad thing, I believe I read somewhere they were supposed to have 5 years of warranty?


From the website:
Extended guarantee, with online registration.​
Five years guarantee in case of bad vacuum, mechanical issues or catastrophic defects.
18 months or 2500 hours whatever comes first, on lifetime issues. Please do not confuse this number with expected lifetime.
However it doesn't help if they need over 6 months to give a replacement or if you need them matched, one tube dies and you receive an unmatched replacement


----------



## mammal

If these questions sound basic to you, I apologise, trying to educate myslef, thank you.



ThanatosVI said:


> However it doesn't help if they need over 6 months to give a replacement or if you need them matched, one tube dies and you receive an unmatched replacement


What happens when you get unmatched tube? Is volume different or it simply does not work?



ThanatosVI said:


> 18 months or 2500 hours whatever comes first,


How do they track hours of use?


----------



## pippen99

If I was buying on the secondary market I would aim for the same brand and construction.  A lot of tubes were rebranded so same construction would be what I want first and worry about matching second.  I believe what ThanatosVI meant by matching was EML (Jac) offered a replacement mesh tube to replace a solid plate tube.  Sometimes matching tubes refers to matching performance to within a certain per centage of each other.


----------



## littlej0e (Jun 23, 2021)

I posted this over in the Abyss 1266 thread, but figured this would be a better place for it.

When I first got my WA33 EE JPS I used it in pre-amp mode with the Raal HSA-1b amp and SR1a ear speakers. I was in slack-jawed amazement of the SQ, but I had to max out the volume dials on the HSA-1b and the WA33 (on the low gain setting) to get the volume I wanted. Others have taught me that it is normally better to have the volume dials around 12 o'clock, so I switched the WA33 to high gain and leveled off the dials on both amps accordingly. When I did so, the music seemed to lose a lot of it's euphoric impact, a slight bit of color, and had an overall duller, more smeared presentation. I was 99% sure I was crazy and chalked it up to "new toy psychological euphoria" wearing off.

I eventually got curious and switched everything back to "max-max-low" and noticed things sounded much "stronger" and more euphoric. I subsequently did some blind A/B testing between the low and high gain to verify I wasn't insane, then did the same thing with my wife and mother-in-law. All three of us preferred max-max-low. There is something going on here, at least with this setup ( SR1a > HSA-1b > WA33 EE JPS (preamp) > Holo May > custom server > Roon > Qobuz/local music).

I'm going to do some additional testing to see if I can figure it out. I mean, if there isn't a mechanical reason in the WA33, then it has to be something else in the HSA-1b or another component. I also wonder if the same would be true when using the WA33 EE JPS in normal (non-preamp) mode.

Can anyone with the EE JPS substantiate this and hopefully confirm I'm not completely nuts?

*Edit:* Another head-fi'er mentioned that POTs tend to sound better at max levels. Who knew?!? So the biggest takeaway from this is: the WA33 EE JPS does and can sound very euphoric to people without synesthesia.


----------



## littlej0e (Jun 25, 2021)

For those interested, I figured out what’s causing the differences in sound on my rig - it’s the source. Also, setting the gain to low on the WA33 EE JPS brought back the euphoria and amazing holographics I originally experienced, though I don’t have a clue why. HQPlayer still offers a bit more clarity and higher resolution, but doesn’t have the same guttural/visceral vocal impact and harmonics I get directly from the server. I’m going to try the MX filter in HQPlayer to see if that changes things.

The biggest takeaway is the source is the foundation of your system. It is arguably the most important component, especially at the higher end.


----------



## joseph69

Wanted to try some different power tubes so I decided to go with a Quad of NOS RCA JAN CRC 2A3 Black Plates dated1951.
I should be receiving them Mon-Tue. Looking forward to hearing their differences between the EML 2A3S and the stock EHX 2A3 being I've never heard anything but in my WA33. If anyone has experience with these tubes I'd love to hear their impressions just to get an idea of their sound signature before receiving them.


----------



## Drewligarchy

I'm not a huge tube roller, but does anyone have some feedback on upgrading the tubes with each of Woo's recommended upgrades? I have had a wa33 for a year or two and want to see how much of a sonic impact they could bring. I'm not necessarily interested in trying lots of exotic tubes to find an exact sound - I would just like an easy upgrade, even if it's around $4k.

The particular upgrades I was eyeing

KR Audio 2A3 - power
TA-274B Takatsuki - rectifier
6C45Pi Electro harmonix gold pin - driver

They also have WR2A3 Psvane and Psvane Acme 2A3 for power tube upgrades
274B-HP KR as another rectifier


How do these tubes sound compared to stock? Primarily using with an Abyss TC and Susvara. I like the idea of buying from Woo, even at a premium I'm sure, just so I can get a matched quad and I'm certain they work well with the amp - so if I blow anything up it's Woo's tubes. What's your thoughts?


----------



## smodtactical

Anyone have pictures of the internals? base and elite?


----------



## mammal

There were some questions about the KR tubes, especially the High Performance edition - found the announcement article which includes words of Joe from Abyss.


----------



## ThanatosVI

mammal said:


> There were some questions about the KR tubes, especially the High Performance edition - found the announcement article which includes words of Joe from Abyss.


U.S. only seems a weird choice 🤔


----------



## joseph69

My NOS 1951 CRC JAN Black Plate RCA 2A3 tubes arrived yesterday DOA.


----------



## pippen99

Tubeampdoctor has the KR HP 2A3 in stock.  They are in Germany if you want to take that chance.  Price is $780.80 shipped for a matched pair. If you go take a look remember that VAT is included in the posted price.  Banzai Music also carries KR but not does not list the HP version.


----------



## joseph69

pippen99 said:


> Tubeampdoctor has the KR HP 2A3 in stock.  They are in Germany if you want to take that chance.  Price is $780.80 shipped for a matched pair. If you go take a look remember that VAT is included in the posted price.  Banzai Music also carries KR but not does not list the HP version.


The KR HP is supposed to be exclusive to the US only.
But if Tubeampdoctor has them (for whatever reason) and they're $780 shipped for a pair, that's an extramely good price which would make me very skeptical. The Cable Company has them in stock for $1295.00 a pair. I think I'm going to end up with these sooner than later.


----------



## mammal

pippen99 said:


> Tubeampdoctor has the KR HP 2A3 in stock.  They are in Germany if you want to take that chance.  Price is $780.80 shipped for a matched pair. If you go take a look remember that VAT is included in the posted price.  Banzai Music also carries KR but not does not list the HP version.


German VAT can be deducted on export. Worth reaching out to them and asking them to do that for you (as long as you are buying outside of EU). Not all shops do this since it's extra paperwork for them, but this way you save 21% and only have to pay your local customs import and VAT.


----------



## chief79

Does Tubeampdoctor have a good reputation and are a reliable and trustworthy retailer? Sorry I'm new to this and would be great to hear any thoughts and experiences. Thanks!


----------



## ThanatosVI

chief79 said:


> Does Tubeampdoctor have a good reputation and are a reliable and trustworthy retailer? Sorry I'm new to this and would be great to hear any thoughts and experiences. Thanks!


Yes tubeampdoctor is a very trustworthy source. 
I guess the price of 750€ (incl 19% VAT) is comparatively low, since they are produced inside the EU.

The description also mentions that those are the HP tubes that were initially only available on the U.S. market. Maybe this changed now.


----------



## mammal

I believe the tubes are actually produced in Czech Republic, hence EU. Good news, I just checked and when buying from outside of the EU, Tube Amp Doctor's shopping cart automatically removed VAT, so the price was 630 EUR plus shipping for one pair of HP tubes


----------



## chief79

ThanatosVI said:


> Yes tubeampdoctor is a very trustworthy source.
> I guess the price of 750€ (incl 19% VAT) is comparatively low, since they are produced inside the EU.
> 
> The description also mentions that those are the HP tubes that were initially only available on the U.S. market. Maybe this changed now.


Thanks!


----------



## smodtactical

Anyone know if local dealers will do the WA33 elite upgrade if you buy the WA33 base model second hand?


----------



## mammal

smodtactical said:


> Anyone know if local dealers will do the WA33 elite upgrade if you buy the WA33 base model second hand?


I asked about this explicitly and they told me that since the amp is point to point wired, direct upgrade is not possible. They would need to build a new amp from scratch. This being said, you can use their "upgrade programme" available in the US which should allow you to give them the base model back, for some discount on the Elite.


----------



## yagislav

littlej0e said:


> After much difficulty trying to find a proper means of expression, here are my impressions of the WA33 Elite Edition with JSP "Alumiloy" wiring (hereafter commonly referred to as the WA33).
> 
> *TL;DR -* Listening to music through the WA33 is akin to listening in a pitch black, empty 747 airplane hanger. The sense of depth, space, and pinpoint imaging are truly amazing. The WA33 is extremely sensitive to whatever is around and put through it. If you have any weaknesses in your chain, the WA33 will amplify them. It will painstakingly reveal every triumph, wart, sublimely delivered note and poorly mixed catastrophe. In other words, the WA33 is the cherry on top of your delicious super audio nerd ice cream sundae and probably shouldn't be used in any other compacity. Furthermore, it will do just about anything you ask it to, then smile at you and say, “thank you, sir! May I have another?!?” Needless to say, this thing is pretty nuts...
> 
> ...


Which footers are those you have under the WA33?


----------



## smodtactical

Anyone compare elekit tu8600 using speaker taps to woo wa33?


----------



## littlej0e (Jun 28, 2021)

yagislav said:


> Which footers are those you have under the WA33?


4 x IsoAcoustic Orea Bordeaux pucks: https://isoacoustics.com/home-audio-isolation-products/orea-series/


----------



## joseph69

So what's being said here is that Tubeampdoctor charges +/- $850.00US for a pair of KR HP 2A3 tubes?
That is half the cost of The Cable Company and close to a quad of EML 2A3 tubes.


----------



## pippen99

A matched quad of EML 2A3 currently would be approximately $1450 shipped from Jacmusic if you are willing to endure slow shipping, lack of responsiveness, and a "maybe" warranty.  Two matched pairs of KR HP 2A3s from Tubeampdoctor would be $1562 shipped.  Exchange rates are subject to change.  I am not aware of anyone who has invoked the KR warranty so cannot comment on KR responsiveness.


----------



## joseph69

pippen99 said:


> A matched quad of EML 2A3 currently would be approximately $1450 shipped from Jacmusic if you are willing to endure slow shipping, lack of responsiveness, and a "maybe" warranty.  Two matched pairs of KR HP 2A3s from Tubeampdoctor would be $1562 shipped.  Exchange rates are subject to change.  I am not aware of anyone who has invoked the KR warranty so cannot comment on KR responsiveness.


I've dealt with George at TubesUSA and have never had any issues whatsoever when it came to a warranty claim which I did have the first time I purchased a quad of EML 2A3S tubes, and shipping took 1-2 days, literally. That's a very attractive price for the KR HP.


----------



## pippen99

I talked with George when one of my 300B 2.5v went bad.  The quad was purchased from him originally.  The tubes were only seven months old and I had the invoice from the original owner.  The only thing George did for me was telling me to contact Jac.  That process is now ongoing 3 months with no resolution.


----------



## Bonddam

Stay away from EML. KR has their crap together and it's better on the WA33. I tired 300B 2.5 mesh and I didn't like them at all.  The solid plate sounded better but they don't make them anymore. Last the time it takes to get EML isn't worth it. For my WA5 LE I stuck with KR and got the 300B HP and love them.  Why deal with EML when they are afraid to put their information hidden from the public because they claim people are out to get them if they do!


----------



## joseph69

pippen99 said:


> I talked with George when one of my 300B 2.5v went bad.  The quad was purchased from him originally.  The tubes were only seven months old and I had the invoice from the original owner.  The only thing George did for me was telling me to contact Jac.  That process is now ongoing 3 months with no resolution.


Sorry to hear your unfortunate issue.


----------



## Lucky87 (Jul 1, 2021)

Drewligarchy said:


> I'm not a huge tube roller, but does anyone have some feedback on upgrading the tubes with each of Woo's recommended upgrades? I have had a wa33 for a year or two and want to see how much of a sonic impact they could bring. I'm not necessarily interested in trying lots of exotic tubes to find an exact sound - I would just like an easy upgrade, even if it's around $4k.
> 
> The particular upgrades I was eyeing
> 
> ...


Hi Drew are you using the KR Audio HP version of the 2A3? Just curious and I have not listened to the non HP version and can not give my input with them. But I have the KR 2A3 HP version and when I used my TAK 274B it was good but to me no better than what comes with the stock WA33 other than the Tak 274B
But I personally think the KR HP Combo sounds really good meaning all KR HP tubes 4 x 2A3 and 1 x 274B with the 6C45Pi Electro harmonix gold pin - driver
to me this sound more neutral and clean and authoritative in sound SOLID STATE sound without any edginess while maintaining big soundstage width and depth. This sound is not LUSH again more neutral and natural and depending on the source can make a big impact etc..  I did not like the combo of 4 x KR HP 2A3 with the Tak 274B so I sold the Tak. It really depends on what sound your want warm lush or neutral etc.

KR (HP version if you don't have them already) Audio 2A3 - powers
KR HP 274B - rectifier
6C45Pi Electro harmonix gold pin - driver


----------



## Lucky87 (Jul 1, 2021)

joseph69 said:


> The KR HP is supposed to be exclusive to the US only.
> But if Tubeampdoctor has them (for whatever reason) and they're $780 shipped for a pair, that's an extramely good price which would make me very skeptical. The Cable Company has them in stock for $1295.00 a pair. I think I'm going to end up with these sooner than later.


I know the Cable Company buys from Abyss Joe not sure if they are cross ship them from other dealers? But when I purchased my 4 x KR HP 2A3's and 1 x KR HP 274B my dealer he sent me the wrong ones which were black base non HP version. I was talking with The Cable Company on demo some cables and told them of my troubles I got the wrong tubes from my dealer and he contacted Joe and said these are the base model non HP version the standard line of production vs hands on higher quality of the HP version. My dealer was able to fix the problem and weeks later received the HP version.  I highly recommend these tubes and again these are very neutral in sound very detailed with impact. Also I tried the TAK 274B with the combo does not sound the same vs the KR HP 274B. 

4 x KR HP Audio 2A3 - power
1 x KR HP 274B - rectifier
6C45Pi Electro Harmonix gold pin - driver


----------



## littlej0e (Jul 1, 2021)

Lucky87 said:


> Hi Drew are you using the KR Audio HP version of the 2A3? Just curious and I have not listened to the non HP version and can not give my input with them. But I have the KR 2A3 HP version and when I used my TAK 274B it was good but to me no better than what comes with the stock WA33 other than the Tak 274B
> But I personally think the KR HP Combo sounds really good meaning all KR HP tubes 4 x 2A3 and 1 x 274B with the 6C45Pi Electro harmonix gold pin - driver
> to me this sound more neutral and clean and authoritative in sound SOLID STATE sound without any edginess while maintaining big soundstage width and depth. This sound is not LUSH again more neutral and natural and depending on the source can make a big impact etc..  I did not like the combo of 4 x KR HP 2A3 with the Tak 274B so I sold the Tak. It really depends on what sound your want warm lush or neutral etc.
> 
> ...


This is really interesting.  When my Tak inevitability dies, I may give the KR a go instead. It’s so hard to give up the sound I have though…

Would you say the KR is more “impactful” compared to the Tak? I can handle less lushness and musically as long as you can “feel” the music better (especially vocals). The WA33 EE JPS has turned me into a “feels” junkie and if I can get more of that I absolutely will.


----------



## joseph69

Lucky87 said:


> I know the Cable Company buys from Abyss Joe not sure if they are cross ship them from other dealers? But when I purchased my 4 x KR HP 2A3's and 1 x KR HP 274B my dealer he sent me the wrong ones which were black base non HP version. I was talking with The Cable Company on demo some cables and told them of my troubles I got the wrong tubes from my dealer and he contacted Joe and said these are the base model non HP version the standard line of production vs hands on higher quality of the HP version. My dealer was able to fix the problem and weeks later received the HP version.  I highly recommend these tubes and again these are very neutral in sound very detailed with impact. Also I tried the TAK 274B with the combo does not sound the same vs the KR HP 274B.
> 
> 4 x KR HP Audio 2A3 - power
> 1 x KR HP 274B - rectifier
> 6C45Pi Electro Harmonix gold pin - driver


Glad that your troubles with getting the wrong tubes was resolved, and I appreciate your input about using the KR HP 2A3 which is the only version I would purchase. Also, I would never purchase the Tak due to reading some unfortunate incidents with them. When I move forward with the purchase of the KR HP 2A3 I'm also going to buy the KR 274B. Thanks!


----------



## ThanatosVI

Lucky87 said:


> I know the Cable Company buys from Abyss Joe not sure if they are cross ship them from other dealers? But when I purchased my 4 x KR HP 2A3's and 1 x KR HP 274B my dealer he sent me the wrong ones which were black base non HP version. I was talking with The Cable Company on demo some cables and told them of my troubles I got the wrong tubes from my dealer and he contacted Joe and said these are the base model non HP version the standard line of production vs hands on higher quality of the HP version. My dealer was able to fix the problem and weeks later received the HP version.  I highly recommend these tubes and again these are very neutral in sound very detailed with impact. Also I tried the TAK 274B with the combo does not sound the same vs the KR HP 274B.
> 
> 4 x KR HP Audio 2A3 - power
> 1 x KR HP 274B - rectifier
> 6C45Pi Electro Harmonix gold pin - driver


Thanks for the KR tube input.
Since 300B 2.5V are no longer recommended and there are some issues with EML warranty and durability,  I guess the KR are the most likely tube Setup I'd run when I finally order the amp.


----------



## Clive101 (Jul 19, 2021)

Hello All,
WA33 Balanced vs RCA input which is best or is there not any difference?
If I were to used the RCA input would I be using the WA33 to the full ie both parts of the balanced amplifier?
Thank you

@Roasty Please could you share your experience with the Orange Fuse.


----------



## atya35mm

Clive101 said:


> Hello All,
> WA33 Balanced vs RCA input which is best or is there not any difference?
> If I were to used the RCA input would I be using the WA33 to the full ie both parts of the balanced amplifier?
> Thank you
> ...


Hi Clive, as I’m recently looking to upgrade cables I have done some extensive digging onto this particular issue. You probably saw some of the discussions in the Dave thread. While it’s inconclusive from all the reading of the thread, what I have found is Woo member of the trade can’t remember the username, confirmed WA33 uses phase splitters to convert the single ended RCA signal to balance so that it will still use the full balanced topography of the amplifier. 

Argument can be made whether that ”phase splitter” is degrading sound, but from further research phase splitter is not a complicated process and a company like Woo audio should be able to implement it well. Couple of feedbacks from users that have done A/B has confirmed there’s not a big noticeable difference between using XLR or RCA into WA33. 

Cheers

Adrian


----------



## Roasty (Jul 19, 2021)

Clive101 said:


> @Roasty Please could you share your experience with the Orange Fuse.



i think it is a mod you can not bother with.
i forgot that i had it in. i just tried swapping back to the stock fuse.
probably my mind, but the stock fuse sounded a bit clearer with more space in between, and with the SR fuse, i think there was some low end bloom and overall a bit more lush. nothing that jumps out, unfortunately.

*edit my opinion is you will get more of a difference in sound from swapping the power cord, compared to changing the fuse.


----------



## mammal

Clive101 said:


> Hello All,
> WA33 Balanced vs RCA input which is best or is there not any difference?
> If I were to used the RCA input would I be using the WA33 to the full ie both parts of the balanced amplifier?
> Thank you


I recognise some owners have already answered your question, but I would like to add some more (even if I don't own WA33 myself). It is also important to recognise what your DAC is good at, for example dCS states that their XLR output stage is superior to RCA, and should be used whenever possible. I have done some testing and hear no difference at all, just wanted to point out, if your specific DAC has better RCA than XLR (or vice versa) that could contribute more to your system's sonic performance, than what WA33 itself is better at. The best way is to use the same grade/tier RCA and XLR cables and simply test for yourself. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## atya35mm

mammal said:


> I recognise some owners have already answered your question, but I would like to add some more (even if I don't own WA33 myself). It is also important to recognise what your DAC is good at, for example dCS states that their XLR output stage is superior to RCA, and should be used whenever possible. I have done some testing and hear no difference at all, just wanted to point out, if your specific DAC has better RCA than XLR (or vice versa) that could contribute more to your system's sonic performance, than what WA33 itself is better at. The best way is to use the same grade/tier RCA and XLR cables and simply test for yourself. Just my 2 cents.


Agreed. In my case, the Dave being well known to be single ended design, I find it probably benefits more coming out SE than XLR into WA33. But I think this XLR / SE output got a bit heated in the Dave thread so probably don't want to repeat the same here.


----------



## pippen99

Right now I use y adaptors to output from the balanced outputs from my Rossini to my WA33 and SS amp.  I plan to upgrade my interconnects come Black Friday and will discontinue the use of the adaptors and run directly to the WA33.  I will then have to run single ended to my SS amp.  dCS says that the Rossini has separate output circuits for SE and Balanced so they can be used simultaneously.  I don't know how common this is among other brands of DACs.  Since I use the WA33 95% of the time I can live with the lesser SQ for the small time I use the other amp.


----------



## musicman59

pippen99 said:


> Right now I use y adaptors to output from the balanced outputs from my Rossini to my WA33 and SS amp.  I plan to upgrade my interconnects come Black Friday and will discontinue the use of the adaptors and run directly to the WA33.  I will then have to run single ended to my SS amp.  dCS says that the Rossini has separate output circuits for SE and Balanced so they can be used simultaneously.  I don't know how common this is among other brands of DACs.  Since I use the WA33 95% of the time I can live with the lesser SQ for the small time I use the other amp.


I do the same thing out of my Bricasti M1SE and M21 DACs. In both cases I use both the SE and XLR outputs with no issues.

On the XLR outputs of the M1SE I also use a Y adapter that were made for me based on WireWorld Eclipse 6 XLR cables. I feed my RSA A-10 Thunderbolt and the RAAL SHA-1B amplifiers.


----------



## pippen99

The XlR on the left are what I used first.
Acoustic Zen Zero Crystal is what I use now.  When I get my upgrade I want to go direct without adapters.


----------



## musicman59

Those Acoustic Zen are like the ones I use but from WireWorld.


----------



## mammal

pippen99 said:


> Right now I use y adaptors to output from the balanced outputs from my Rossini to my WA33 and SS amp.  I plan to upgrade my interconnects come Black Friday and will discontinue the use of the adaptors and run directly to the WA33.  I will then have to run single ended to my SS amp.  dCS says that the Rossini has separate output circuits for SE and Balanced so they can be used simultaneously.  I don't know how common this is among other brands of DACs.  Since I use the WA33 95% of the time I can live with the lesser SQ for the small time I use the other amp.


Have you tested Rossini SE and heard a difference against XLR, or are you going with dCS recommendation instead? Thanks!


----------



## pippen99

I have not tested the Rossini SE output.  I will sell off the Y adapters and other interconnects when I get the upgrade XLR interconnects.  I will then get a decent pair of SE interconnects for the rare times I use the SS amp.  I am going direct because I do not want extra connections with the upgraded interconnects.  My SS amp has a phase splitter so even though dCS recommends the balanced output I don't expect a huge drop off in SQ.


----------



## chief79

Hi All, a somewhat technical question. If i were to use the WA33 as a preamp to an amplifier, would there be any issues connecting the 3-pin XLR balanced preamp output to the single-ended RCA inputs on the amplifier? The amplifier only accepts RCA and I heard that connecting the 2 might cause problems to the amplifier. Thanks!


----------



## JLoud

You need a XLR to RCA adapter. But one that leaves the one pin open and not shorted to ground. 
Something like this. https://emotiva.com/collections/acc...to-unbalanced-rca-female-adapter-interconnect


----------



## chief79

JLoud said:


> You need a XLR to RCA adapter. But one that leaves the one pin open and not shorted to ground.
> Something like this. https://emotiva.com/collections/acc...to-unbalanced-rca-female-adapter-interconnect


Thanks, so this will help prevent any damage to any of the components then


----------



## chief79

Anyone have any experience with these? https://www.moon-audio.com/moon-audio-rca-xlr-adapters.html


----------



## atya35mm (Jul 22, 2021)

Hi all, keen to find out how you all provide power to WA33? I'm quite new to this audiophile hobby so currently using a PS Audio cable and plug directly into a Belkin surge protector power board. The power here is generally quite ok, so I probably don't want to go down into using a power conditioner. However, I read amp benefits from plugging direct into a main, instead of through a power board. Keen to get other's experience here as to what works well, and whether they have gone through testing to see if any difference at all.

Would WA33 quality as a "big power amp that draws huge amount of current"?

*ok after further reading, maybe some kind of power conditioner might be ideal...


----------



## Ciggavelli

atya35mm said:


> Hi all, keen to find out how you all provide power to WA33? I'm quite new to this audiophile hobby so currently using a PS Audio cable and plug directly into a Belkin surge protector power board. The power here is generally quite ok, so I probably don't want to go down into using a power conditioner. However, I read amp benefits from plugging direct into a main, instead of through a power board. Keen to get other's experience here as to what works well, and whether they have gone through testing to see if any difference at all.
> 
> Would WA33 quality as a "big power amp that draws huge amount of current"?
> 
> *ok after further reading, maybe some kind of power conditioner might be ideal...


I use an Isotek Sigmas power conditioner and I really like it. I spoke to a cable maker in the past, and he said the WA33 does not qualify as a “big power amp that draws a high amount of current.”  I asked him because I wasn’t sure if I should get a high powered power cable or a power cable for sources and streamers. He verified that I should get the latter for my wa33


----------



## atya35mm

Ciggavelli said:


> I use an Isotek Sigmas power conditioner and I really like it. I spoke to a cable maker in the past, and he said the WA33 does not qualify as a “big power amp that draws a high amount of current.”  I asked him because I wasn’t sure if I should get a high powered power cable or a power cable for sources and streamers. He verified that I should get the latter for my wa33


Thanks!! I might possibly get the Aquarius to test the waters so to speak.


----------



## SuperBurrito

pippen99 said:


> The XlR on the left are what I used first.
> Acoustic Zen Zero Crystal is what I use now.  When I get my upgrade I want to go direct without adapters.


I once asked Nordost if they would custom make me Y adapter cables.  They said that it would degrade the signal, and that 2 separate cables is the best approach.


----------



## pippen99

SuperBurrito said:


> I once asked Nordost if they would custom make me Y adapter cables.  They said that it would degrade the signal, and that 2 separate cables is the best approach.


I was told by the Americas sales rep for dCS and by my dCS dealer that it was no problem.  I was also told by multiple people at PS Audio which manufactured my previous DAC (Directstream DAC) that it was no problem.  The owner of PS Audio Paul Mcgowan said that they use the Purist Audio adapter in their showrooms.  Apparently Purist Audio and Acoustic Zen don't think it is an issue since they manufacture the adapters I have used.  Both are respected manufacturers of high end cables.


----------



## SuperBurrito

pippen99 said:


> I was told by the Americas sales rep for dCS and by my dCS dealer that it was no problem.  I was also told by multiple people at PS Audio which manufactured my previous DAC (Directstream DAC) that it was no problem.  The owner of PS Audio Paul Mcgowan said that they use the Purist Audio adapter in their showrooms.  Apparently Purist Audio and Acoustic Zen don't think it is an issue since they manufacture the adapters I have used.  Both are respected manufacturers of high end cables.


That's some good intel - thanks for sharing!


----------



## musicman59

chief79 said:


> Hi All, a somewhat technical question. If i were to use the WA33 as a preamp to an amplifier, would there be any issues connecting the 3-pin XLR balanced preamp output to the single-ended RCA inputs on the amplifier? The amplifier only accepts RCA and I heard that connecting the 2 might cause problems to the amplifier. Thanks!


I would use the Cardas adapters.
http://www.cardas.com/adaptors.php


----------



## chief79

musicman59 said:


> I would use the Cardas adapters.
> http://www.cardas.com/adaptors.php


Thanks! Spoke to Woo Audio and this was recommended as well


----------



## Roasty

Got email notification that my replacement 300b 2.5v tubes are shipping out from Jac. 

Fingers crossed they are good and silent and close to being matched with my other pair.


----------



## pippen99

Damn, hell froze over and pigs flew!  My last communication with Jac was 04/30 when he committed to build me a new tube.  Do you know if you are getting a new pair or just a single to replace the defective tube?  I told myself I would wait 3 months before starting to agitate again.  So 08/01 I will reinitiate the email chain and see what happens.  Keep us informed


----------



## Roasty

pippen99 said:


> Damn, hell froze over and pigs flew!  My last communication with Jac was 04/30 when he committed to build me a new tube.  Do you know if you are getting a new pair or just a single to replace the defective tube?  I told myself I would wait 3 months before starting to agitate again.  So 08/01 I will reinitiate the email chain and see what happens.  Keep us informed



i think i'm getting a new pair, as they have to match it to each other and i am assuming it is easier to do it as such (?).
i sent one email a month since May (i believe) and CCed George at tubesusa so he could see what I was going through. I received word from George the other day that Jac would be shipping out my tubes, and Jac followed up yesterday with the tracking number.


----------



## pippen99

That is probably what I should have done.  You may recall my tubes were purchased from George also.  If I forward my email chain with JAC to George may I reference that you are getting your tubes.  Maybe I won't have to communicate with Jac at all.  I won't mention you without your permission but may forward everything to George to see if it can help.


----------



## Roasty

pippen99 said:


> That is probably what I should have done.  You may recall my tubes were purchased from George also.  If I forward my email chain with JAC to George may I reference that you are getting your tubes.  Maybe I won't have to communicate with Jac at all.  I won't mention you without your permission but may forward everything to George to see if it can help.



George was great and very reassuring. 
Feel free to do what needs to be done to get your tubes!


----------



## pippen99

Thanks


----------



## pippen99

Well George does reply very quickly.  Unfortunately all he did was shine me on to Jac again.  He also was unaware your tubes have shipped(maybe/probably) stating they were to be shipped next week.  I guess there is no point in waiting and I will send a new message to Jac tonight.


----------



## pippen99

Has anyone here tried the IFI Pro iESL estat energizer with the WA33?  If so what E headphones did you use and what were your impressions.  Comparisons to dedicated Estat amps would be appreciated also.


----------



## ThanatosVI

pippen99 said:


> Has anyone here tried the IFI Pro iESL estat energizer with the WA33?  If so what E headphones did you use and what were your impressions.  Comparisons to dedicated Estat amps would be appreciated also.


How would you connect those two?


----------



## pippen99

The iESL has a balanced input that will connect from the front balanced 4 pin XLR headphone output.  4 pin XLR male to 4 pin XLR female.


----------



## ThanatosVI

pippen99 said:


> The iESL has a balanced input that will connect from the front balanced 4 pin XLR headphone output.  4 pin XLR male to 4 pin XLR female.


I see.
What power requirements does that one have?


----------



## pippen99

If I break down and order the upcoming Audeze Estat I am trying to avoid spending more thousands on a dedicated amp if the WA33 would work.  Recommendation is a minimum of 10w per channel at 8 ohms if I am reading the iESL thread right.  The WA33 does 10@ 32 Ohms.  To my technically untrained brain that would work I think?


----------



## ThanatosVI

pippen99 said:


> If I break down and order the upcoming Audeze Estat I am trying to avoid spending more thousands on a dedicated amp if the WA33 would work.  Recommendation is a minimum of 10w per channel at 8 ohms if I am reading the iESL thread right.  The WA33 does 10@ 32 Ohms.  To my technically untrained brain that would work I think?


Yeah should be fine.
Also an interesting option 

In the help and recommendations forum I opened a thread asking about energizers. 

Maybe we get a few options from there.
(I asked for use with speakertaps, which the iESL Supports as well)


----------



## atya35mm

Hey all, anyone here experience weird sound coming out of them WA33 while it’s on? It’s not very often, but I hear “ping………”, like a spring releasing sound somewhere in the amp. This is not coming through the headphone, just from the amp itself. Last for about 1 second and happens not very ocassionally, but maybe once or twice in a 3 hour listening session. 

Just to add doesn’t impact sound quality or anything at all to the music coming through the headphone.


----------



## mammal

atya35mm said:


> Hey all, anyone here experience weird sound coming out of them WA33 while it’s on? It’s not very often, but I hear “ping………”, like a spring releasing sound somewhere in the amp. This is not coming through the headphone, just from the amp itself. Last for about 1 second and happens not very ocassionally, but maybe once or twice in a 3 hour listening session.
> 
> Just to add doesn’t impact sound quality or anything at all to the music coming through the headphone.


Are those coming from Tubes or the amp body itself? Can you tell?


----------



## atya35mm

mammal said:


> Are those coming from Tubes or the amp body itself? Can you tell?


I think it's the body. A bit hard to tell though, but the way it pings, it's a heavier sound, a heavier ping if that makes sense so I reckon body.


----------



## atya35mm

Just to add, I have the 596 USAF tube as well, being quite vintage not sure if it's that. Well could be anything I suppose, I'm just going to put it down to part of the tube amp charm.


----------



## mammal

atya35mm said:


> I think it's the body. A bit hard to tell though, but the way it pings, it's a heavier sound, a heavier ping if that makes sense so I reckon body.


I don't have your particular amp, but another high end tube amp I have experience with did the same. Especially on thermal shifts, like startup or cool down, it sounded like my petrol engine under the hood, clings and pings, was quite scary.


----------



## lucasratmundo

Alright, I took the plunge and ordered a WA33 Elite Edition with JPS wires to replace my Pendant SE. Can’t wait!


----------



## Ciggavelli

atya35mm said:


> Hey all, anyone here experience weird sound coming out of them WA33 while it’s on? It’s not very often, but I hear “ping………”, like a spring releasing sound somewhere in the amp. This is not coming through the headphone, just from the amp itself. Last for about 1 second and happens not very ocassionally, but maybe once or twice in a 3 hour listening session.
> 
> Just to add doesn’t impact sound quality or anything at all to the music coming through the headphone.


Yes, with easier to drive headphones I hear that ping when I first turn the wa33 on. It goes away pretty quickly, and I haven’t heard it at any other times after that.


----------



## JLoud

I hear the same thing on occasion. I believe it is just thermal expansion. The case is part of the heat sink, so just things expanding due to heat soak. I would think it is normal.


----------



## TDinCali

lucasratmundo said:


> Alright, I took the plunge and ordered a WA33 Elite Edition with JPS wires to replace my Pendant SE. Can’t wait!


How long is the wait?


----------



## lucasratmundo

TDinCali said:


> How long is the wait?


Website says 3-4 weeks for the Elite edition. I'm hoping that's either accurate or overestimated


----------



## mammal

lucasratmundo said:


> Website says 3-4 weeks for the Elite edition. I'm hoping that's either accurate or overestimated


@littlej0e how long did you wait for yours?


----------



## HPAholic

Anyone tried NOS 2A3 Mono Plate in WA33? I know they're basically unobtainium or $$$$$ but you would be surprise what peeps have laying around and you can find them if you're willing to pay to play.  Also there are other NOS 2A3, which are Dual Mono Plate and Bi-Plate at a very significant lower cost. 

"_The RCA 2A3 was born (develop-mental number A181C, introduced January 10, 1933). Unfortunately, by February 1936 RCA had replaced the single-plate with a structure having two smaller 45-like tri-odes wired in parallel. Their "W" filament arrangement was similar to the 45 and involved less labor and less cost. There are 2A3 lovers who claim that this was a step backward, and that the single-plate had superior distortion characteristics. During World War II, the 2A3 and its relative, the 6B4G, were the most common pass elements in regulated power supplies. This latter fact kept the production of such "primitive" triodes going well after 1945, since the U.S. military is notoriously slow to replace equipment which serves a purpose well. It is believed that Uncle Sam kept the 2A3 on its official military-procurement list until the 1980s_".  _By Eric Barbour _


----------



## littlej0e (Aug 10, 2021)

lucasratmundo said:


> Website says 3-4 weeks for the Elite edition. I'm hoping that's either accurate or overestimated





mammal said:


> @littlej0e how long did you wait for yours?



I waited approx. three months, mostly due to part and material shortages. I placed the order in late March and received it in early June. Availability could have changed between now and then, so it's anyone's guess as to when you will receive it. Covid combined with increased demand turned audio component availability into an expensive and unpredictable crap shoot. Just keep pinging your dealer and he/she will ride Woo Audio for you (or keep pinging your sales rep at Woo if you bought direct). A couple of recommendations:

Get the TAK tube for the biggest sound stage and sweetest sound or all KR tubes for kick-your-teeth-in bass impact.
Aftermarket tubes will significantly lower the cost of upgrading and subsequently replacing tubes. Just be sure they are 100% compatible (no 300b tubes) and be careful who you buy them from. Companies offering warranties longer than 1 year seem to be highly unreliable. Refer to other posts and posters in this thread for more information.
Your amp will get *VERY HOT *after 3+ hours of continuous use. Prepare your listening and rack spaces accordingly. I use mine as a makeshift hibachi when I'm too lazy to go upstairs to use my George Foreman grill (kidding).
Lastly, and most importantly..._CONGRATS ON PICKING UP THE WA33 EE JPS!!!_ It will be worth the wait. Easily the best headphone amp I've ever heard! Really tremendous.


----------



## lucasratmundo

littlej0e said:


> I waited approx. three months, mostly due to part and material shortages. I placed the order in late March and received it in early June. Availability could have changed between now and then, so it's anyone's guess as to when you will receive it. Covid combined with increased demand turned audio component availability into an expensive and unpredictable crap shoot. Just keep pinging your dealer and he/she will ride Woo Audio for you (or keep pinging your sales rep at Woo if you bought direct). A couple of recommendations:
> 
> Get the TAK tube for the biggest sound stage and sweetest sound or all KR tubes for kick-your-teeth-in bass impact.
> Aftermarket tubes will significantly lower the cost of upgrading and subsequently replacing tubes. Just be sure they are 100% compatible (no 300b tubes) and be careful who you buy them from. Companies offering warranties longer than 1 year seem to be highly unreliable. Refer to other posts and posters in this thread for more information.
> ...


Thanks for the tips, @littlej0e!


----------



## m17xr2b

atya35mm said:


> Hey all, anyone here experience weird sound coming out of them WA33 while it’s on? It’s not very often, but I hear “ping………”, like a spring releasing sound somewhere in the amp. This is not coming through the headphone, just from the amp itself. Last for about 1 second and happens not very ocassionally, but maybe once or twice in a 3 hour listening session.
> 
> Just to add doesn’t impact sound quality or anything at all to the music coming through the headphone.


Seems to be quirk of Woo amps, I had the exact same sound on the WA5 regardless of tubes especially at turn-on/off.  I'd expect more from an expensive product considering none of my other TOTL amps Apex, Cavalli, DNA etc. had this behaviour. I'd say it's just large production tolerance and can't expect a solid chassis even at this price point unless going for more boutique options.


----------



## lucasratmundo

lucasratmundo said:


> Website says 3-4 weeks for the Elite edition. I'm hoping that's either accurate or overestimated


Just heard from Woo Audio folks that they're estimating a 4-week wait. Not bad!


----------



## TCaughey

lucasratmundo said:


> Just heard from Woo Audio folks that they're estimating a 4-week wait. Not bad!


Yep, I just heard three weeks for my standard edition


----------



## hodgjy

atya35mm said:


> Hey all, anyone here experience weird sound coming out of them WA33 while it’s on? It’s not very often, but I hear “ping………”, like a spring releasing sound somewhere in the amp. This is not coming through the headphone, just from the amp itself. Last for about 1 second and happens not very ocassionally, but maybe once or twice in a 3 hour listening session.
> 
> Just to add doesn’t impact sound quality or anything at all to the music coming through the headphone.


Not a 33, but my 3 did this all the time. In fact, I could hear it through the headphones because the driver tubes were microphonic enough to pick it up. I was confident it was thermal expansion in either the tubes or chassis.


----------



## Drewligarchy

If you have an Abyss TC and a Woo Wa3 listen to this track:



Whole album is good, but this especially.


----------



## ColoradoJordan

I finally took the plunge and replaced my entire 2 channel system, as my listening room sits right below the nursery.  I ended up getting the WA33 Elite with the KR Audio 2A3 HP, TA-274B Takatsuki and the 6C45Pi Electro Harmonix Gold-pin upgraded tubes.  Source is the LuminX1 with Tellurium Q Black II XLR interconnects.  I have some basic Wireworld power cords.  Headphone is the 1266 TC.

A couple questions.  What interconnects would you recommend with my system?  I am looking for some warmth.  Power cables I was thinking I the JPS Kaptovator.  Anybody running a power conditioner?  Thanks for the advice.  I have loved the WA33 so far.


----------



## ThanatosVI

ColoradoJordan said:


> I finally took the plunge and replaced my entire 2 channel system, as my listening room sits right below the nursery.  I ended up getting the WA33 Elite with the KR Audio 2A3 HP, TA-274B Takatsuki and the 6C45Pi Electro Harmonix Gold-pin upgraded tubes.  Source is the LuminX1 with Tellurium Q Black II XLR interconnects.  I have some basic Wireworld power cords.  Headphone is the 1266 TC.
> 
> A couple questions.  What interconnects would you recommend with my system?  I am looking for some warmth.  Power cables I was thinking I the JPS Kaptovator.  Anybody running a power conditioner?  Thanks for the advice.  I have loved the WA33 so far.


Cardas clear interconnects have a warm sound.


----------



## mammal

ThanatosVI said:


> Cardas clear interconnects have a warm sound.


As does JPS Labs Aluminata series I keep hearing, if you wanted to splurge for best Abyss guys can offer.


----------



## mammal

ColoradoJordan said:


> Anybody running a power conditioner? Thanks for the advice.


Abyss made a video about power filtration/conditioning, generally not recommending it. I have seen some folks use power regenerators like PS Audio (AC->DC->AC again) with good results, needed in some fluctuating areas especially on WA33 Elite (I read it is somehow more susceptible to it). The last option (most expensive, but perhaps the best?) is to use battery powered generators, like Stromtank.


----------



## ThanatosVI

mammal said:


> Abyss made a video about power filtration/conditioning, generally not recommending it. I have seen some folks use power regenerators like PS Audio (AC->DC->AC again) with good results, needed in some fluctuating areas especially on WA33 Elite (I read it is somehow more susceptible to it). The last option (most expensive, but perhaps the best?) is to use battery powered generators, like Stromtank.


I use a PS audio stellar p3 powerplant. If money were a non issue I'd go for the Stromtank.
In theory those two principles seem superior to Filters.
However many manufacturers and reviewers share different views in that matter.


----------



## mammal

ThanatosVI said:


> I use a PS audio stellar p3 powerplant. If money were a non issue I'd go for the Stromtank.
> In theory those two principles seem superior to Filters.
> However many manufacturers and reviewers share different views in that matter.


I contemplated on the issue a lot. Have an option to demo both Powerplant and Stromtank, but avoiding as scared I will become a believer (currently I am not) and keep one of them. Right now I have PS Audio Dectet as a simple surge protection. It claims some filtration too, but hear no difference myself.


----------



## ThanatosVI

mammal said:


> I contemplated on the issue a lot. Have an option to demo both Powerplant and Stromtank, but avoiding as scared I will become a believer (currently I am not) and keep one of them. Right now I have PS Audio Dectet as a simple surge protection. It claims some filtration too, but hear no difference myself.


Tue PS Audio Regenerator has a pretty obvious change to the sound, maybe not to everyones liking but definitely noticeable.

Please share your impressions if you ever take the option to Demo them.


----------



## mammal

ThanatosVI said:


> Tue PS Audio Regenerator has a pretty obvious change to the sound, maybe not to everyones liking but definitely noticeable.
> 
> Please share your impressions if you ever take the option to Demo them.


Will do! By the way, does your unit have a fan? That blows air under load?


----------



## ColoradoJordan

Thanks for all the input.  Any suggestions for power cables?  Anyone running the Lumin X1?


----------



## ThanatosVI

mammal said:


> Will do! By the way, does your unit have a fan? That blows air under load?


I don't think so, at least the fan is never running if it has one.


----------



## pippen99

I also run the Stellar P3 regenerator.  I found the change to be positive with a blacker background being the most positive change.  I have bought most of my cables used.  I believe in aftermarket cables especially for interconnects.  I have not heard a correlation between positive change and the expense of power cords.  I have a Transparent Reference for my WA33.  I used to have a Lumin U1 and bought Cerious Graphene Extreme power cables for it.  They are well made cables for a reasonable price.  I plan to upgrade to DH Prion4 interconnects when Black Friday rolls around this year.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Aug 16, 2021)

ColoradoJordan said:


> I finally took the plunge and replaced my entire 2 channel system, as my listening room sits right below the nursery.  I ended up getting the WA33 Elite with the KR Audio 2A3 HP, TA-274B Takatsuki and the 6C45Pi Electro Harmonix Gold-pin upgraded tubes.  Source is the LuminX1 with Tellurium Q Black II XLR interconnects.  I have some basic Wireworld power cords.  Headphone is the 1266 TC.
> 
> A couple questions.  What interconnects would you recommend with my system?  I am looking for some warmth.  Power cables I was thinking I the JPS Kaptovator.  Anybody running a power conditioner?  Thanks for the advice.  I have loved the WA33 so far.



I use relatively cheap interconnects: Audioquest King Cobras - but I really like the sound. Also a PS Audio AC 3 for power. It's kind of silly that I have a JPS SC cable for my Abyss and interconnects that are so much cheaper for my whole system. Need to demo some higher end interconnects from the cable company, but going to roll some tubes first. I've been on the stock tubes with the Wa33 for 18 months, and just ordered the Psvane ACME 2a3, upgraded drivers, and the USAF 596 rectifier. I think I'll probably get the Tak eventually, as well at the KR power tubes when they are back in stock - but hopefully this gets me going.


----------



## littlej0e (Aug 17, 2021)

ColoradoJordan said:


> I finally took the plunge and replaced my entire 2 channel system, as my listening room sits right below the nursery.


I know this problem well. That's why I have a headphone rig until my kids are older. Or at least old enough not to destroy a good 2 channel system...lol


ColoradoJordan said:


> I ended up getting the WA33 Elite with the KR Audio 2A3 HP, TA-274B Takatsuki and the 6C45Pi Electro Harmonix Gold-pin upgraded tubes.  Source is the LuminX1 with Tellurium Q Black II XLR interconnects.  I have some basic Wireworld power cords.  Headphone is the 1266 TC.


Holy crap do you have an amazing system! Congrats on going "balls-to-the-wall"!!!



ColoradoJordan said:


> A couple questions.  What interconnects would you recommend with my system?  I am looking for some warmth.  Power cables I was thinking I the JPS Kaptovator.


I've heard amazing things about Tellurium cables, especially the interconnects. I don't know If I would change them, but I've never personally heard them. If you are after warmth and OK with artificial warmth and a more digital sound, I'd take a look at the Cardas Parsec ICs, AudioQuest Fire XLRs, or Danacables (a fine Colorado company). That said, I would try adding a bit of color via the power cables first instead of replacing your XLRs. JPS power cables should match quite well with your system in theory, but I don't have any experience with them personally. Alternatively, take a look at Snake River Audio Cottonmouth Signature Series, AudioQuest Firebird, or Tornado's if you need something cheaper. The Snake rivers in particular would be awesome for this use case.

Whatever you chose, I would highly recommend buying used cables whenever possible. Specifically, cables with a lifetime warranty. If the manufacturer offers a lifetime warranty (almost always to the original purchaser only), then you already know the cables are likely built well enough to outlast the original purchaser, so there is a 99% chance they will outlast you as well.



ColoradoJordan said:


> Anybody running a power conditioner?  Thanks for the advice.  I have loved the WA33 so far.



I actually have very recent experience with this. The short answer is it boils down to taste. If you want something that will make things sound smoother than silk and lower the noise floor to obscene levels of quiet and "blackness"...get a power conditioner. Specifically, I had the IsoTek EVO3 Sigmas and it was fantastic at what it did. Truly impressive. The trade offs were that it reduced musical impact a lot, added slight artificial coloration to the sound, and screwed with the staging a bit by bringing the mids and vocals forward and recessing the rest. I eventually ended up bypassing it and plugging my system directly into the wall because it gave me a much more lively, natural, musical, neutral, and less "processed" sound. Again, it is all about personal preference.

Interestingly enough, I live about 40 minutes away from PS Audio's home office (looks like you are very close as well!!!) and I recently demoed a PowerPlant P20. It was surprisingly good and I ultimately ended up buying one (I have a special use case as to why I needed a regenerator. I have extremely noisy and unreliable mains power at my new house in very rural Colorado), but as with everything - YMMV. The P20 was miles better than any "conditioner" I've ever tried because it doesn't artificially color or "enhance" anything. This is probably due to the fact it is a "regenerator" and not a "conditioner". Conditioner is a fancy audio marketing term for "filter" and they almost always take something away. Regenerators are basically the same thing, they just do it differently. The trick is to find out what you like, then find a filter that leaves the things you enjoy and takes away the things you don't. That's the whole game of power conditioning in a nutshell. For example, the P20 improved clarity a bit, impact a bit, dynamics moderately, and staging (specifically depth and  width) moderately. But I suspect all of these "improvements" are nothing more than a passive byproduct of the local AC regeneration process itself. In other words, the P20 basically just re-regulates the incoming voltage similar to what your local utility's transformer does that feeds your house. The P20 just does it with components specifically designed to isolate or eliminate THD and noise on your electrical system. That's it. Also, the P20 doesn't really "enhance" anything. It just reduces the THD/noise floor and the resulting "improvements" become much easier to hear as a result. In any case, I honestly don't think I'd buy a regenerator or a conditoner unless I had money to burn, a special use case, or wanted to forcibly change the sound in my system. But again, it all depends on your personal preference.

Lastly, the only way you're going to answer most of these questions is to try as many things as you possibly can, then decide for yourself. I've made some very expensive mistakes not following this simple principle. Put everyone's recommendations on a list, then narrow it down with things that will likely match your tastes, then start demoing. If you haven't identified your tastes, then I would expand your demo list to include gear with a wide range of sound profiles and start there. You just never know what you're going to like until you try it. Unfortunately, this is a very slow, methodical, and often painful process, but it's the only one guaranteed to satisfy you and your unique preferences. There is just no substitute for demoing gear on _your_ system with _your_ ears. This is where finding a good, trustworthy dealer can be very helpful. Find one that asks the right questions to understand your system. Specifically, how your components sound together and what you are looking to achieve. Then he/she can make educated recommendations based on your answers.

Anyway, that's my 32 cents. Good luck!


----------



## ColoradoJordan

Drewligarchy, thanks for the great write up.  Much appreciated!


----------



## atya35mm

ColoradoJordan said:


> Drewligarchy, thanks for the great write up.  Much appreciated!


Just want to second @littlej0e recommendation on Danacables. I'm currently auditioning their interconnects, and they really punch above their weight in terms of price point. Warmth is just one of the ways to describe it, but for me I would more describe it as adding weight to your music. It adds weight and volume to the music you listen to making it sound realistic and touchable in your head.


----------



## Roasty

On a different note, my replacement eml 300b 2.5v tubes have landed in Singapore and should be delivered within 3 days. I just hope they're silent, without rattles, and decently matched to my other pair.. 

@pippen99 i hope you get yours sent out soon!


----------



## pippen99

After a 3day wait Jac replied that mine had not been built yet.  He said if I would allow him to build them with "square cooler plates instead of round" it would go faster.  Personally I think this is a load of BS designed to put me off longer.  I now plan to agitate email monthly.


----------



## Roasty

pippen99 said:


> After a 3day wait Jac replied that mine had not been built yet.  He said if I would allow him to build them with "square cooler plates instead of round" it would go faster.  Personally I think this is a load of BS designed to put me off longer.  I now plan to agitate email monthly.



That is horrendous...
Send back the other pair u have and ask for a refund. It is getting ridiculous..


----------



## littlej0e (Aug 16, 2021)

atya35mm said:


> Just want to second @littlej0e recommendation on Danacables. I'm currently auditioning their interconnects, and they really punch above their weight in terms of price point. Warmth is just one of the ways to describe it, but for me I would more describe it as adding weight to your music. It adds weight and volume to the music you listen to making it sound realistic and touchable in your head.


This is the _*perfect*_ way to describe them - weighty. Hope you don’t mind if I steal your description for future reference


----------



## atya35mm

littlej0e said:


> This is the _*perfect*_ way to describe them - weighty. Hope you don’t mind if I steal your description for future reference


Please forward 2c to my paypal account everytime you use the reference. Joking, steal away


----------



## littlej0e

atya35mm said:


> Please forward 2c to my paypal account everytime you use the reference. Joking, steal away


Deal!


----------



## joseph69

Roasty said:


> On a different note, my replacement eml 300b 2.5v tubes have landed in Singapore and should be delivered within 3 days. I just hope they're silent, without rattles, and decently matched to my other pair..
> 
> @pippen99 i hope you get yours sent out soon!


Glad to hear this. Please keep us posted on your impressions of the 300B 2.5v


----------



## Roasty

Replacement tubes arrived.. 
First email sent 22 March. Turnaround time just under 5 months. 
Going to give them a go right now. Fingers crossed!


----------



## Roasty

New tubes are on the left. Slightly larger and taller than the pair from the initial quad matched purchase. 

So far so good..


----------



## musicman59

Roasty said:


> New tubes are on the left. Slightly larger and taller than the pair from the initial quad matched purchase.
> 
> So far so good..


Wow! I did not realize how I consisten the size of the glass could be… I was norm expecting to see that from a known company like EML.

I used to have a pair of 300b Mesh in my WA5-LE and loved their sound.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Finally got some new tubes! Still waiting on a few, but running them in now. I feel like I'm about to enter a money pit of unknown proportions


----------



## moemoney

Drewligarchy said:


> Finally got some new tubes! Still waiting on a few, but running them in now. I feel like I'm about to enter a money pit of unknown proportions


About to…


----------



## Drewligarchy

Wow - I underestimated how much tube rolling would change the sound of the amp.

My early impression of the Psvane ACME 2a3 with the 596 USAF rectifier is amazing clarity, but slightly bright. Do these tend to settle down a little with burn in?


----------



## eee1111

Well I’ve decided the wa33 elite with JPS wires is my next amp.

only problem is it’s gonna take me about 6 months to get the funds lol. Should pair really well with 1266 and susvara


----------



## helljudgement

Drewligarchy said:


> Finally got some new tubes! Still waiting on a few, but running them in now. I feel like I'm about to enter a money pit of unknown proportions


Wondering if the heat melt the rubber sleeves on your ACME? I was loaned a pair of 300b and was told by the distributor to remove the sleeves before inserting.


----------



## littlej0e

eee1111 said:


> Well I’ve decided the wa33 elite with JPS wires is my next amp.
> 
> only problem is it’s gonna take me about 6 months to get the funds lol. Should pair really well with 1266 and susvara


Congrats! You won’t regret it.


----------



## Drewligarchy

helljudgement said:


> Wondering if the heat melt the rubber sleeves on your ACME? I was loaned a pair of 300b and was told by the distributor to remove the sleeves before inserting.



It hasn't yet - but your probably right, I'm a bit new to this thing. I'll take them off.

Regarding the initial brightness (I've never rolled tubes before), does this tend to lessen a bit after break in, or is it the nature of this tube (I know the 300B is different, but perhaps you experienced some of it).

I have used the stock tubes for 18 months which are not as well extended in the treble, but the spectral tilt is darker on those, so with the Abyss - for instance - you get more bass. I have never really broken in tubes before, so don't know what to expect.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Ok - here is another noob question: Do you guys ever roll tubes for each of your headphones. I am noticing these tubes work better with the Susvara and wake them up a bit. I don't like them on the Abyss as much. Am I going to ruing the teflon sockets if I switch tubes every time I switch headphones?


----------



## helljudgement

Drewligarchy said:


> It hasn't yet - but your probably right, I'm a bit new to this thing. I'll take them off.
> 
> Regarding the initial brightness (I've never rolled tubes before), does this tend to lessen a bit after break in, or is it the nature of this tube (I know the 300B is different, but perhaps you experienced some of it).
> 
> I have used the stock tubes for 18 months which are not as well extended in the treble, but the spectral tilt is darker on those, so with the Abyss - for instance - you get more bass. I have never really broken in tubes before, so don't know what to expect.


Probably not a good reference point as I'm using a completely different tube but I personally never found the acme 300b to be bright in nature in fact it seem to tilt very slightly towards warmer tone but that could just be the nature of 300b tubes in general. It could potentially loosen up after running it in for a while so just try running with it for a bit to see if either you or the tubes gets acclimated to the setup. I was told to run it for about a hundred hours or so take that with a grain of salt.



Drewligarchy said:


> Ok - here is another noob question: Do you guys ever roll tubes for each of your headphones. I am noticing these tubes work better with the Susvara and wake them up a bit. I don't like them on the Abyss as much. Am I going to ruing the teflon sockets if I switch tubes every time I switch headphones?


Changing tubes will definitely wear the sockets over time so I would do it as sparingly as possible. But in general if you take extra care when inserting and removing it should last. I'd recommend just using it for a couple of weeks just to run it in and see if it changes overtime.


----------



## Drewligarchy

helljudgement said:


> Probably not a good reference point as I'm using a completely different tube but I personally never found the acme 300b to be bright in nature in fact it seem to tilt very slightly towards warmer tone but that could just be the nature of 300b tubes in general. It could potentially loosen up after running it in for a while so just try running with it for a bit to see if either you or the tubes gets acclimated to the setup. I was told to run it for about a hundred hours or so take that with a grain of salt.
> 
> 
> Changing tubes will definitely wear the sockets over time so I would do it as sparingly as possible. But in general if you take extra care when inserting and removing it should last. I'd recommend just using it for a couple of weeks just to run it in and see if it changes overtime.



Thank you!


----------



## mammal

helljudgement said:


> Changing tubes will definitely wear the sockets over time so I would do it as sparingly as possible. But in general if you take extra care when inserting and removing it should last. I'd recommend just using it for a couple of weeks just to run it in and see if it changes overtime.


Why not to buy tube socket raiser/saver thingy, or how it's called?


----------



## atya35mm

curious, can i ask what level of volume you guys are at with wa33? as my dac can act as a preamp and control volume, i recently set wa33 volume closer to 3 oclock and lowering my dac preamp volume. not sure if i’m imagining this but i seem to get much better sound quality. i havent tried cranking the volume dial all the to max for fear of blowing anything up or tubes.


----------



## atya35mm

Oh wait I think there’s a ps audio YouTube video explaining exactly why this is! 😀 I might try volume wide open in my next listening session.


----------



## littlej0e

atya35mm said:


> curious, can i ask what level of volume you guys are at with wa33? as my dac can act as a preamp and control volume, i recently set wa33 volume closer to 3 oclock and lowering my dac preamp volume. not sure if i’m imagining this but i seem to get much better sound quality. i havent tried cranking the volume dial all the to max for fear of blowing anything up or tubes.



I'm currently at 3 o'clock volume at high gain and low impedance on my WA33 EE JPS to drive my Abyss 1266s. Don't worry, you aren't going to blow up anything. I think music sounds significantly better using low gain, but it doesn't drive the TCs loud enough, even with my DSP volume maxed out in Roon. I'm waiting on my preamp to arrive to help increase the input volume so I can hopefully go back to the low gain setting. I don't think you are imagining anything at all. I used the WA33 as a preamp for my old HSA-1b + SR1a combo and I could definitely hear a difference, especially between high and low gain settings.

Also, I don't know how your DAC controls the volume, but I recently learned you should never use a digital volume control. With each 6dB attenuation you lose one bit of resolution. DSP = very convenient, but bad for resolution.


----------



## joseph69

@Drewligarchy 
Am I understanding this correctly that you're using an ACME 300B in your WA33, or am I missing something?


----------



## Drewligarchy

joseph69 said:


> @Drewligarchy
> Am I understanding this correctly that you're using an ACME 300B in your WA33, or am I missing something?



Hi Joseph - hope you are well.

No, I am using the ACME 2a3s. After about   7-8 hours the highs have started to settle a little. I wasn’t expecting them to be so bright out of the box.


----------



## Drewligarchy

littlej0e said:


> I'm currently at 3 o'clock volume at high gain and low impedance on my WA33 EE JPS to drive my Abyss 1266s. Don't worry, you aren't going to blow up anything. I think music sounds significantly better using low gain, but it doesn't drive the TCs loud enough, even with my DSP volume maxed out in Roon. I'm waiting on my preamp to arrive to help increase the input volume so I can hopefully go back to the low gain setting. I don't think you are imagining anything at all. I used the WA33 as a preamp for my old HSA-1b + SR1a combo and I could definitely hear a difference, especially between high and low gain settings.
> 
> Also, I don't know how your DAC controls the volume, but I recently learned you should never use a digital volume control. With each 6dB attenuation you lose one bit of resolution. DSP = very convenient, but bad for resolution.



Depends on the DAC. For instance Chord Dave volume control is quite transparent and you don’t lose bits.


----------



## littlej0e (Aug 18, 2021)

Drewligarchy said:


> Depends on the DAC. For instance Chord Dave volume control is quite transparent and you don’t lose bits.


I remember reading the Dave has "lossless" digital volume control, but I actually never saw the specifics of how they achieved this and the lack of detailed info immediately raised my BS flag. Digital volume attenuation without bit loss is *impossible*. Perhaps Chord is controlling the volume in the analog stage and it isn't really digital?!? The only way I could see Chord's "lossless" digital control working is if they jacked up the digital volume processing to 32 bits as this would (probably) reduce bit loss beyond the level human hearing...but that still isn't "lossless". If that's what they did, then they should call it something else because as stated, Chord means "lossless" in the same way MQA meant "lossless" haha.

The amount of baseless claims, paid-for-reviews, and propaganda in the audio industry is absolutely stunning.


----------



## mammal

littlej0e said:


> I remember reading the Dave has "lossless" digital volume control, but I actually never saw the specifics of how they achieved this and the lack of detailed info immediately raised my BS flag. Digital volume attenuation without bit loss is *impossible*. Perhaps Chord is controlling the volume in the analog stage and it isn't really digital?!? The only way I could see Chord's "lossless" digital control working is if they jacked up the digital volume processing to 32 bits as this would (probably) reduce bit loss beyond the level human hearing...but that still isn't "lossless". If that's what they did, then they should call it something else because as stated, Chord means "lossless" in the same way MQA meant "lossless" haha.
> 
> The amount of baseless claims, paid-for-reviews, and propaganda in the audio industry is absolutely stunning.


I agree with your sentiment on BS done by audio companies, gear reviewers and such. But, on the other side, we all strive for best quality and sometimes we convince ourselves we hear bits. I for one don’t, and volume knob on my Bartok does not bother me, that it is implemented in the digital domain (I assume?). My ears are so crap I need a balance shifted by 3dB anyway. So maybe lossless digital volume knob isn’t mathematically possible (I really don’t know), BUT, it could still be a “decent” volume knob, aka, transparent enough. As for lossless formats, I agree with you that it is bad when marketing lets us believe word lossless means lossless (like your example in MQA), but there isn’t subsitute to testing - can you tell a difference between a well recorded/mixed/stored FLAC and its MP3 equivalent? I have failed this test countless of times myself.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Aug 18, 2021)

littlej0e said:


> I remember reading the Dave has "lossless" digital volume control, but I actually never saw the specifics of how they achieved this and the lack of detailed info immediately raised my BS flag. Digital volume attenuation without bit loss is *impossible*. Perhaps Chord is controlling the volume in the analog stage and it isn't really digital?!? The only way I could see Chord's "lossless" digital control working is if they jacked up the digital volume processing to 32 bits as this would (probably) reduce bit loss beyond the level human hearing...but that still isn't "lossless". If that's what they did, then they should call it something else because as stated, Chord means "lossless" in the same way MQA meant "lossless" haha.
> 
> The amount of baseless claims, paid-for-reviews, and propaganda in the audio industry is absolutely stunning.



I hear you. I remember reading an explanation from Rob Watts somewhere - but I don't remember where.

Anyhow, I have used Dave in preamp mode as well as in DAC mode - and I, for the life of me, can't detect any changes in sound quality. I'm also severely attenuating the signal so in some cases I'm at -25. I had an Auralic Vega that sounded like crap as soon as you were 10 steps away from 100%. Same thing with a Bricasti M1 - so I have heard the negative effects digital volume control can have.

I don't agree with everything Rob Watts says (for instance I like the sound of R2R DACs), but based on my ears - both my Chord Dave and Chord Hugo 2 sound completely transparent regardless of attenuation. Is it completely lossless? I don't have any idea as I don't know the engineering enough. That said, it is quite good to my ears.

EDIT: For those interested, here is Rob Watts technical explanation https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/page-1176#post-16468645


----------



## littlej0e (Aug 18, 2021)

mammal said:


> I agree with your sentiment on BS done by audio companies, gear reviewers and such. But, on the other side, we all strive for best quality and sometimes we convince ourselves we hear bits. I for one don’t, and volume knob on my Bartok does not bother me, that it is implemented in the digital domain (I assume?). My ears are so crap I need a balance shifted by 3dB anyway. So maybe lossless digital volume knob isn’t mathematically possible (I really don’t know), BUT, it could still be a “decent” volume knob, aka, transparent enough. As for lossless formats, I agree with you that it is bad when marketing lets us believe word lossless means lossless (like your example in MQA), but there isn’t subsitute to testing - can you tell a difference between a well recorded/mixed/stored FLAC and its MP3 equivalent? I have failed this test countless of times myself.



Without question you are right. Sound is all that matters (in my opinion at least). As to FLAC vs MP3, my ability to tell the difference was hit and miss at best. On some tracks it was plain as day. On others, I couldn't tell the slightest bit of difference whatsoever. I still haven't figured out why this is (auditory biology?!? Mastering?!?). If Chord or dCS did implement a 32 bit digital volume control, I think it is _highly_ unlikely most people, except for maybe those with the most golden of ears, could ever reliably hear a difference. It all depends on the implementation. But even if they didn't use a 32 bit control, I still wouldn't loose a wink of sleep over the digital degradation as the differences would still be fairly minor for the vast majority of people. But to use your example, just because you or I can't reliably tell the difference doesn't necessarily mean others can't. So using extremely disingenuous marketing terms to willfully mislead people into thinking there will be no difference when there actually could be is flat out wrong and completely unethical. Unfortunately, this type of behavior is so prevalent in the audio industry that it gets harder and harder to separate fact from fiction every day.

A more dramatic example would be if I slapped a "certified nut free" label on my Chinese takeout food, even though I knew for a fact there are slight amounts of nuts in it. I know as a food prepper that it won't matter to 95+% of people (including some who claim to be allergic) because they just won't know any better. But that one guy that just so happens to be actually deathly allergic to nuts is about to have a very bad day and a swift trip to the emergency room.


----------



## littlej0e (Aug 18, 2021)

Drewligarchy said:


> I hear you. I remember reading an explanation from Rob Watts somewhere - but I don't remember where.
> 
> Anyhow, I have used Dave in preamp mode as well as in DAC mode - and I, for the life of me, can't detect any changes in sound quality. I'm also severely attenuating the signal so in some cases I'm at -25. I had an Auralic Vega that sounded like crap as soon as you were 10 steps away from 100%. Same thing with a Bricasti M1 - so I have heard the negative effects digital volume control can have.
> 
> I don't agree with everything Rob Watts says (for instance I like the sound of R2R DACs), but based on my ears - both my Chord Dave and Chord Hugo 2 sound completely transparent regardless of attenuation. Is it completely lossless? I don't have any idea as I don't know the engineering enough. That said, it is quite good to my ears.


I agree wholeheartedly. I sincerely doubt I could tell the difference either and if you can't then that's all that matters in my opinion. Maybe Chord does use a 32 bit. Good on them if they do (and they probably should).

I just take issue with the misleading BS marketing because I've personally been burned by it. Not from Chord specifically, but from other companies (and dealers) because I just didn't know any better.


----------



## mammal

littlej0e said:


> A more dramatic example with be if I slapped a "certified nut free" label on my Chinese takeout food, even though I knew for a fact there are slight amounts of nuts in my food. I know as a food prepper that it won't matter to 95+% of people because they just won't know any better. But that one guy that just so happens to be actually deathly allergic to nuts is about to have a very bad day and a swift trip to the emergency room.


I don’t like onion (just taste, no allergy), and every time I order meal, I ask them to not include it. Unfortunately, most of the time they don’t care and give me half an onion anyway. The only way to make sure they pay attention is to say I am allergic and if I spot a tiny bit of onion, they will need to call me an ambulance. Works every time, and that’s why people lie, to get results they want, including audio companies.



littlej0e said:


> Without question you are right. Sound is all that matters (in my opinion at least). As to FLAC vs MP3, my ability to tell the difference was hit and miss at best. On some tracks it was plain as day. On others, I couldn't tell the slightest bit of difference whatsoever. I still haven't figured out why this is (auditory biology?!? Mastering?!?). If Chord or dCS did implement a 32 bit digital volume control, I think it is _highly_ unlikely most people, except for maybe those with the most golden of ears, could ever reliably hear a difference. It all depends on the implementation. But even if they didn't use a 32 bit control, I still wouldn't loose a wink of sleep over the digital degradation as the differences would still be fairly minor for the vast majority of people. But to use your example, just because you or I can't reliably tell the difference doesn't necessarily mean others can't. So using extremely disingenuous marketing terms to willfully mislead people into thinking there will be no difference when there actually could be is flat out wrong and completely unethical. Unfortunately, this type of behavior is so prevalent in the audio industry that it gets harder and harder to separate fact from fiction every day.


Absolutely agree, I could not have said it better.


----------



## littlej0e

mammal said:


> I don’t like onion (just taste, no allergy), and every time I order meal, I ask them to not include it. Unfortunately, most of the time they don’t care and give me half an onion anyway. The only way to make sure they pay attention is to say I am allergic and if I spot a tiny bit of onion, they will need to call me an ambulance. Works every time, and that’s why people lie, to get results they want, including audio companies.


I am totally STEALING THIS!


----------



## ColoradoJordan

Lumin claims the same digital "lossless" volume control using Leedh processing.  I just set my Lumin to 100% output and control the volume directly from the WA33.


----------



## littlej0e (Aug 18, 2021)

Drewligarchy said:


> EDIT: For those interested, here is Rob Watts technical explanation https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/page-1176#post-16468645


This was both fascinating and the epitome of what drives me absolutely friggin' _*NUTS*_. Using digital truncation or noise shaping _of any kind _to artificially match signals or input bits to output bits is not "lossless." Using "aggressive 11th order noise shaping" to keep the resolution stable enough to give people the illusion of lossless digital volume control is a very clever solution, but still isn't objectively lossless (but it is likely the reason why you, along with 95% of people on planet earth, probably can't hear a difference in resolution. Again, it's a very cool solution!). But you can't add, remove, alter, or "shape" something then call it unedited...or objectively lossless. It's complete and total BS. MQA tried perpetuating the exact same carefully phrased slight-of-hand "subjectively lossless" crap (what the hell does that even mean anyway?!?).

Regardless, my argument that the Dave isn't truly "lossless" is extremely pedantic and almost completely pointless seeing as Chord's DSP solution itself is _incredibly_ clever and very useful in keeping the resolution stabilized for the vast majority of people using it. Again, I sincerely doubt anyone but those with the very best hearing would ever be able to sniff the slightest bit of difference. That said, it is still 100% misleading and unethical marketing as they are flat out lying to people.



ColoradoJordan said:


> Lumin claims the same digital "lossless" volume control using Leedh processing.


Yep, yet another example of 100% BS in the audio industry - what a shocker. Uhhh, it's literally everywhere...


ColoradoJordan said:


> I just set my Lumin to 100% output and control the volume directly from the WA33.


To my knowledge, this is one of the only surefire ways to ensure no loss of resolution with volume attenuation as you are moving it completely to the analog stage. That said, I doubt most people could hear a difference, even if you left it on the Lumin. It all depends on how they implemented their DSP tech. Besides, who knows? Maybe the analog control on the WA33 EE JPS is total crap and you are better of using the Lumen...haha (it sure as hell better not be for what we paid for it!!!).

Regardless, I really hate marketing people, especially in the audio industry.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Aug 18, 2021)

Lots of discussion about different tubes in this thread, but I haven't been able to locate impressions for different tubes. And, since we are all using the a variation on the same circuit: SE, JPS, Elite, Elite JPS - ostensibly the effect of each brand of tube will have a similar effect on our systems.

We all also have a point of reference via the stock tubes.

As I've posted, I have just started using the Psvane ACME 2a3 in the past couple days. They are brighter than the stock tubes, though not bright per se - and very neutral. They sound "truer" than the stock tubes as I found the stock tubes slightly dark. Resolution and imaging have significantly improved. Bass quantity seems slightly reduced to a more neutral level, partially because of the slight increase in brightness. All that said, they have only started to burn in so my opinions may change. I have also replaced the stock rectifier with a 596 USAF

While there are lots of 2a3 tubes, with Woo's upgrades and common upgrade tubes used in the forum, I see:

EML Solid Plates 2a3
EML Mesh Plates 3a3
EML 300B that's compatible with the Wa33
Psvane ACME 2a3
Psvane WR 2a3
KR Audio 2A3
A variety of NOS Tubes

For Rectifiers:
KR HP 274B
EML 274B
Takatsuki 274B
596 USAF

I'm sure I missed some.

For driver tubes, I haven't seen anything other that the EH 6C45pi Gold Pin

If you use any of the above upgrade tubes (or others), can you describe the changes you notice from the stock tubes, with your headphone of choice?


----------



## Drewligarchy (Aug 19, 2021)

Wow - these tubes are really good. Bass is back in a big way and most of the brightness is gone. There is an ever so slight etch on some vocals, but really only when its in the recording.

Most importantly, the sound is addicting. I started listening at 8 pm and next thing I know it's 6 am. I couldn't pull myself away. I love the sound of my system, but at a certain point - I'm satisfied and I go to bed. I literally couldn't stop listening. I can't remember the last time that happened, other than when I originally got the Wa33.

These are not lay back and relax tubes with the Abyss, they are I'm on the edge of my seat watching a move and can't wait to see what happens next.

While the Susvara may be a different story (though it sounds incredible with this amp), I think the 33 is THE pairing for The Abyss. Admittedly I haven't listened to speaker amps with it - but it far surpasses the Formula S, HPA4, and certainly my v281. It fills in the mids in the way only tubes can, refines the treble and makes it sweeter, and the it's got amazing slam. It's completely effortless. Feels like the 33 isn't even breaking a sweat.


----------



## pippen99

A response and a question.

First the question.  I am currently using XLR splitters to run both my amps(WA33 EE and Cavalli Lau) off the balanced outputs of my dac(dCS Rossini).  Is there any advantage to ditching the splitters and running the Lau off the preamp out of the WA33.  If any of you are doing something similar what are your volume settings and what is the volume controlling unit?

Response:  Forget EML.  The owner is a complete bandit.  If you have issues the dealer will refer you to JacMusic in Germany who will do everything in their power to ignore and or delay any warranty solutions.  I am currently at four months on attempting to get 300Bs replaced.  I have a quad of EML 2A3s in the WA33 now and they sound good.  But I know that if I have problems I will be months getting a replacement if ever.  If I ever get my replacements I will sell and or trade both EML quads for KRs.
As for rectifiers I have used a Western Electric 422A, KR274B and Tak 274B.  Even though my first Tak died at 13 months with no give or take on the warranty I was unsatisfied with either the WE or KR and went back to the Tak.  The sound is fuller and better defined than with the others.  The Tak 274B is the best rectifier made today!

P.S.:  At the time I purchased the 300Bs Woo was noncommittal about using the 300B in the WA33.  They have since stated they do not recommend the use of the 300B in the WA33


----------



## Roasty

@pippen99 sucky situation to be in..

i've been listening with the 300b 2.5v, upgraded driver tubes and tak274b with the utopia. the sound is just about as good as it gets for me...
yes the KR2a3 were very good too, with tighter and slightly punchier bass  and a more fast, immediate and forward presentation, but the 300b 2.5v low end and slight bloom and roundness, and its lush mid section, just seem to raise the Utopia sound to the next level. i was initially going to sell the EML tubes once i had them back, but i'm having second thoughts now. so far, the tubes are completely silent and no funny pinging or popping/puffing noises from either channel. also no channel imbalance too.
i know Woo doesnt recommend them, but geez they do sound good (when working properly).
too bad about the difference in appearances for both pairs, but i guess it is something i can live with.

i'd say, for those who havent already taken the plunge, but want to give them a shot, be prepared for a long RMA escapade with EML/Jacmusic that can stretch on for months should any issues arise with the tubes.


----------



## pippen99

My tubes got to Jac on 04/15.  Can you refresh my memory of when your tubes reached Germany so I can mention that next time I email Jac?


----------



## Roasty

pippen99 said:


> My tubes got to Jac on 04/15.  Can you refresh my memory of when your tubes reached Germany so I can mention that next time I email Jac?



He received on 5th April


----------



## littlej0e

I feel so bad for you guys. You deserve so much better after investing that kind of money instead of getting the runaround and/or flat out hoodwinked. Thanks for posting about it and letting me, and others, learn from your mistakes.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Aug 21, 2021)

The Wa33 turns the LCD 4 into a different headphone, and makes me realize how underappreciated it is in the community.

While I primarily listen to the Abyss, the LCD 4 is the TOTL Headphone I’ve had longest. I loved Audeze from early on in this hobby, though quickly moved to high end electrostats 009/007/he 60, Carbon, etc. I started with the LCD XC and quickly moved to the LCD 3 and then 4, but because of my infatuation with the 009 it played second fiddle through my Violectric V281. I actually also used different DACs for the two headphones: an Yggdrasil for the 009, and an Auralic Vega for the LCD 4. I always appreciated the LCD4, and listened to it quite a bit, but not nearly as much as the 009.

Alas I tried the Abyss at CanJam a couple years ago through a Wa33 Elite playing songs in the key of life. What followed was a conversation with my 009 which started with “It’s not you, it’s me”. An Abyss TC followed with a Formula S and Powerman, and with it most of my attention. But the LCD 4 was always there, and while we didn’t hang out as frequently - when we did, though, we always were able to pick up where we left off, like an old, lifelong friend.

In the interim, I had upgraded my front end significantly with a Dave/MScaler - and then moved to the Wa33 which was a huge upgrade from the Formula S with the Abyss, and an even bigger upgrade with the LCD4. While most of my time is still spent with the Abyss, and occasional daliances with the Susvara - I’m spending more and more time with the LCD 4.

it’s like dating someone who you also dated as a teenager, and both of you have changed. All her good qualities have evolved, she’s become more refined, more classy -and more sophisticated - but under it all you can still see that beautiful girl you met when you were 16.

i’ve seen some of you use the LCD 4 with the 33 as your primary or only headphone. While obviously based on personal preference, part of me couldn’t help but think - why? There are more impressive headphones out there, and given the amp you’ve invested in, you could likely get any headphone you want.

All I can say is, now I understand. The LCD 4 has the most beautiful mids and tone of any headphone I’ve listened to. With my current tubes it only magnifies, enhances and refines it in a manner that’s, quite simply, beautiful. It’s a world class headphones, and I believe will eventually be considered a classic - despite any perceived “flaws” it might have. From a sheer musicality standpoint, it does so much right.

Edit: The album I was listening to on the LCD 4 that inspired this post:

If The Moon Turns Green by Diana Panton


----------



## mammal

Drewligarchy said:


> but under it all you can still see that beautiful girl you met when you were 16


Hmmmm, your beautiful post made me realise something. No matter how nice hobby this is, if I was 16 again and had this kind of money, I would definitely not spend them on headphones, but with that girlfriend of mine. Maybe it would be a car, driving her around, or a trip abroad, exploring the world. But it would definitely not be a time in solitude with my headphone system. I think, while trying to reach the headphone starts, I have lost touch with the giddy me, who wanted to impress a girl by doing silly things. I guess I should take a break from head-fi, and simply rekindle that spirit. Thank you again, for opening my eyes.


----------



## Drewligarchy

mammal said:


> Hmmmm, your beautiful post made me realise something. No matter how nice hobby this is, if I was 16 again and had this kind of money, I would definitely not spend them on headphones, but with that girlfriend of mine. Maybe it would be a car, driving her around, or a trip abroad, exploring the world. But it would definitely not be a time in solitude with my headphone system. I think, while trying to reach the headphone starts, I have lost touch with the giddy me, who wanted to impress a girl by doing silly things. I guess I should take a break from head-fi, and simply rekindle that spirit. Thank you again, for opening my eyes.



Not my intention, but I hear where you are coming from. Music is a beautiful thing and can nourish the spirit. But everything in balance. Sometimes we get so caught up in the gear, we don’t listen; not only to the music through our headphones, but to the wants and needs of our hearts.


----------



## jonathan c

mammal said:


> Hmmmm, your beautiful post made me realise something. No matter how nice hobby this is, if I was 16 again and had this kind of money, I would definitely not spend them on headphones, but with that girlfriend of mine. Maybe it would be a car, driving her around, or a trip abroad, exploring the world. But it would definitely not be a time in solitude with my headphone system. I think, while trying to reach the headphone starts, I have lost touch with the giddy me, who wanted to impress a girl by doing silly things. I guess I should take a break from head-fi, and simply rekindle that spirit. Thank you again, for opening my eyes.


Alas, shy of inheritance (and all its problems of entitlement…), what are the odds of being sixteen with “this kind of money”?…


----------



## mammal

jonathan c said:


> Alas, shy of inheritance (and all its problems of entitlement…), what are the odds of being sixteen with “this kind of money”?…


Slim to none, unless you used your gaming laptop to mine some BTC when you were 13.


----------



## krt230

Anyone have thoughts on which upgrade might yield the greatest improvement for me?

Currently: 
PC / Tidal > Audiovana > AudioQuest Carbon USB > Chord Hugo TT2 > AudioQuest Mackenzie RCA > WA33 standard tubes > Danacable Lazuli > Susvara

Considering upgrading tubes to KR, Chord mScaler, Phoenix Re-clocker - also open to any other ideas.
Appreciate any advice.


----------



## pippen99

I am only familiar with mScaler and Phoenix from what I have read here.  I am familiar with the effect of upgrade tubes on the WA33.  The biggest bang for your buck in my estimation would be the KR tubes(power and rectifier).  I have not heard the KR power tubes but have used the KR rectifier.b   It is superior to the stock tube by quite a bit.  Be aware that there a couple different versions of both power and rectifier with the HP version at the top(white base).  Also shop around because you can find them discounted.


----------



## mammal

krt230 said:


> Anyone have thoughts on which upgrade might yield the greatest improvement for me?
> 
> Currently:
> PC / Tidal > Audiovana > AudioQuest Carbon USB > Chord Hugo TT2 > AudioQuest Mackenzie RCA > WA33 standard tubes > Danacable Lazuli > Susvara
> ...


Considering mScaler is 4k, why don't you upgrade TT2 to Dave? You are using an external amp anyway, so you don't need TT2's power.


----------



## krt230

mammal said:


> Considering mScaler is 4k, why don't you upgrade TT2 to Dave? You are using an external amp anyway, so you don't need TT2's power.


Only because the Dave is pretty old at this point and I'm worried Dave 2 is around the corner.


----------



## mammal

krt230 said:


> Only because the Dave is pretty old at this point and I'm worried Dave 2 is around the corner.


Buy used then.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Aug 23, 2021)

mammal said:


> Buy used then.





krt230 said:


> Only because the Dave is pretty old at this point and I'm worried Dave 2 is around the corner.



Buying used is good advice, but I don't think Dave 2 is around the corner. We might see some Dave/MScaler combo pack - and as evidenced from the Dave thread, many find a tremendous amount of improvement with an upgraded power supply. I'd check in there too.

Rob Watts has said he's not going to build a new DAC until he can significantly improve on what he's built. Sure, it's possible that there is a further upstream model with all of the above included - but Chord is selling a ton of Dave's - for a niche audiophile product. I bought mine new a few used ago from Sound by Singer in NYC. He was the only dealer in NY that carried the choral line. Chord used to be very strict with their distributors, but it appears they've changed their policy because of their success.

Now, I can go online and buy it from Moon Audio or Audio 46 (both of which I love), but it just shows how more accessible it's become.

I may purchased some of the additional tweaks available on the chord thread (I already have WAVE Cables, an OPTO DX, M-Scaler, Batteries - and a variety of linear power supplies) (though not the big one - yet).

I fully expect to be using my Dave for at least another 10 years. After I max out my headphone rig (famous last words) - it will do double duty when I build a 2 channel setup.

Truthfully, I don't think anybody who buys Dave as a DAC can go wrong. It's really, really good.

And for what it's worth, I have the 33, Dave and M-Scaler and spent a lot of time with the TT2. You can't go wrong with any of the upgrades (Tubes, M Scaler, Dave). My personal opinion would be to upgrade to Dave first as well.

I just got in the queue to replace my Wa33 SE with an Elite Edition. I will share more after I receive it, but from what I've listened to at shows - I think it's going to be a huge upgrade. Since I've also bought some upgrade tubes (the Psvane ACME 2a3 really settled in nicely), I am done for a while. Or, I might buy a DC4.


----------



## Ragnar-BY

krt230 said:


> I'm worried Dave 2 is around the corner


Few weeks ago Rob said that he did not even started to design it.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Aug 23, 2021)

krt230 said:


> Anyone have thoughts on which upgrade might yield the greatest improvement for me?
> 
> Currently:
> PC / Tidal > Audiovana > AudioQuest Carbon USB > Chord Hugo TT2 > AudioQuest Mackenzie RCA > WA33 standard tubes > Danacable Lazuli > Susvara
> ...


I’ve owned many of these pieces of equipment.

I’d go upgraded tubes first, m-scaler second, then Phoenix third.

But, a DAVE would probably be placed 2nd after tubes, if you’re interested in replacing the TT2 (the jump up to DAVE is really impressive)


----------



## joseph69

krt230 said:


> Anyone have thoughts on which upgrade might yield the greatest improvement for me?


Tubes


----------



## SuperBurrito

krt230 said:


> Anyone have thoughts on which upgrade might yield the greatest improvement for me?
> 
> Currently:
> PC / Tidal > Audiovana > AudioQuest Carbon USB > Chord Hugo TT2 > AudioQuest Mackenzie RCA > WA33 standard tubes > Danacable Lazuli > Susvara
> ...


I would guess tubes.  I had a Dave, then added an Mscaler.  Mscaler did not make a substantial improvement for me.  Maybe 5%.  I would focus on every other aspect of your system first....Tubes, equipment isolation, power supply, and cables.


----------



## moemoney

krt230 said:


> Anyone have thoughts on which upgrade might yield the greatest improvement for me?
> 
> Currently:
> PC / Tidal > Audiovana > AudioQuest Carbon USB > Chord Hugo TT2 > AudioQuest Mackenzie RCA > WA33 standard tubes > Danacable Lazuli > Susvara
> ...


Tubes


----------



## krt230

I appreciate all the advice - I did order new tubes and thinking about additional upgrades.

Currently:
PC / Tidal > Audiovana > AudioQuest Carbon USB > Chord Hugo TT2 > AudioQuest Mackenzie RCA > WA33 standard tubes > Danacable Lazuli > Susvara

Is there any obvious weakness in my setup as it sits now?  Some music sounds really good streaming through Audirvana and some sounds quite flat.  I'm slightly frustrated and I'm willing to spend the money if it makes an actual difference.  Thanks again.


----------



## joseph69

Having such a revealing system is a double edged sword. in that you really hear the true quality of the  recording, so better quality recordings really shine and poorer quality recordings sound poorer.


----------



## Ciggavelli

krt230 said:


> I appreciate all the advice - I did order new tubes and thinking about additional upgrades.
> 
> Currently:
> PC / Tidal > Audiovana > AudioQuest Carbon USB > Chord Hugo TT2 > AudioQuest Mackenzie RCA > WA33 standard tubes > Danacable Lazuli > Susvara
> ...


If I had to pick out weaknesses, I’d say your dac, usb reclocking and using Tidal.

The DAVE is a big upgrade and it sounds great with a WA33. Your USB connection could be “dirty” so a usb reclocker would probably be a nice upgrade.

Tidal uses MQA (which Chord Dacs do not fully support) and does not have as large of a collection of hi-res albums as Qobuz. Most of the time, for the new albums I listen to, Tidal is not Hi-Res, but Quboz is (I’ve found it to be quite a big difference in hi-res album availability).


----------



## SuperBurrito

krt230 said:


> I appreciate all the advice - I did order new tubes and thinking about additional upgrades.
> 
> Currently:
> PC / Tidal > Audiovana > AudioQuest Carbon USB > Chord Hugo TT2 > AudioQuest Mackenzie RCA > WA33 standard tubes > Danacable Lazuli > Susvara
> ...


If you have a revealing system, good recordings will sound great and bad recordings will sound bad.

But....what about borrowing some different power cables?  They made a far bigger difference for me than digital cables or analog interconnects.


----------



## krt230

Ciggavelli said:


> If I had to pick out weaknesses, I’d say your dac, usb reclocking and using Tidal.
> 
> The DAVE is a big upgrade and it sounds great with a WA33. Your USB connection could be “dirty” so a usb reclocker would probably be a nice upgrade.
> 
> Tidal uses MQA (which Chord Dacs do not fully support) and does not have as large of a collection of hi-res albums as Qobuz. Most of the time, for the new albums I listen to, Tidal is not Hi-Res, but Quboz is (I’ve found it to be quite a big difference in hi-res album availability).


So I'm still about 4 weeks out from the KR tubes.  I was hoping to upgrade one thing at a time so I could hear the difference of each component, but I'm getting a bit antsy.

Tubes on the way, ordering the mScaler - in stock  and then ordering the Phoenix.  Am I missing anything obvious?  I refuse to upgrade the TT2 to Dave since I just made that purchase a couple months ago - and I'm already well beyond my initial headphone setup budget of $10k, lol.  Did I say well beyond?  I'm both blaming and thanking everyone on this forum.

Does going from Qobuz to dedicated streamer help?  Or power conditioners?  I don't need bleeding edge technology like Ciggavelli (wish I could afford your exact setup though), but want a competent system without glaring omissions.  Thanks again for all the help, sincerely.


----------



## ThanatosVI

krt230 said:


> So I'm still about 4 weeks out from the KR tubes.  I was hoping to upgrade one thing at a time so I could hear the difference of each component, but I'm getting a bit antsy.
> 
> Tubes on the way, ordering the mScaler - in stock  and then ordering the Phoenix.  Am I missing anything obvious?  I refuse to upgrade the TT2 to Dave since I just made that purchase a couple months ago - and I'm already well beyond my initial headphone setup budget of $10k, lol.  Did I say well beyond?  I'm both blaming and thanking everyone on this forum.
> 
> Does going from Qobuz to dedicated streamer help?  Or power conditioners?  I don't need bleeding edge technology like Ciggavelli (wish I could afford your exact setup though), but want a competent system without glaring omissions.  Thanks again for all the help, sincerely.


Power conditioners can make a huge difference. Don't sleep on them.
Personally I'm using a PS Audio Stellar P3.

I'd actually expect the difference to be bigger than the addition of the mScalar or Phoenix.
Probably is hugely dependant on your Power quality at home.


----------



## Roasty (Sep 5, 2021)

krt230 said:


> So I'm still about 4 weeks out from the KR tubes.  I was hoping to upgrade one thing at a time so I could hear the difference of each component, but I'm getting a bit antsy.
> 
> Tubes on the way, ordering the mScaler - in stock  and then ordering the Phoenix.  Am I missing anything obvious?  I refuse to upgrade the TT2 to Dave since I just made that purchase a couple months ago - and I'm already well beyond my initial headphone setup budget of $10k, lol.  Did I say well beyond?  I'm both blaming and thanking everyone on this forum.
> 
> Does going from Qobuz to dedicated streamer help?  Or power conditioners?  I don't need bleeding edge technology like Ciggavelli (wish I could afford your exact setup though), but want a competent system without glaring omissions.  Thanks again for all the help, sincerely.



The tubes will make the biggest difference.

It's hard not to get antsy with gear upgrading. But take your time to enjoy the upgrades one by one. You'll appreciate them more, and it'll be easier to figure out which upgrades matter in your system, and which don't.

My personal take on your potential upgrade path, from first to last (after tubes of course), is power (conditioner+cords), source ( good core + streamer using raat if you use roon), mscaler, interconnects and USB or other digital cables, and phoenix last.


----------



## joseph69

Roasty said:


> The tubes will make the biggest difference.


+1


----------



## atya35mm

joseph69 said:


> +1


Funny I know this to be the case too, but have deliberately hold off on that to get used to the tubes I currently run with for now (596 USAF, and upgraded golden pin EH tubes). 

Is the latest general consensus or safest choice being to go with Tak 274bs for rectifier upgrade and KR 2a3s for the driver tubes?


----------



## joseph69

atya35mm said:


> Funny I know this to be the case too, but have deliberately hold off on that to get used to the tubes I currently run with for now (596 USAF, and upgraded golden pin EH tubes).
> 
> Is the latest general consensus or safest choice being to go with Tak 274bs for rectifier upgrade and KR 2a3s for the driver tubes?


I'm currently running the 596 - EML 2A3S - EH gold pins.
I've never had any experience with the Tak (and don't plan to) but I do plan in the near future to purchase the KR 2A3 HP & 274B HP.


----------



## littlej0e

Agree with both @Ciggavelli and @ThanatosVI as both will make stark differences In your system. The only advice I can add is do your best to try before you buy and commit to anything.


----------



## krt230

Roasty said:


> The tubes will make the biggest difference.
> 
> It's hard not to get antsy with gear upgrading. But take your time to enjoy the upgrades one by one. You'll appreciate them more, and it'll be easier to figure out which upgrades matter in your system, and which don't.
> 
> My personal take on your potential upgrade path, from first to last (after tubes of course), is power (conditioner+cords), source ( good core + streamer using raat if you use roon), mscaler, interconnects and USB or other digital cables, and phoenix last.



What source (brand / model) would be an improvement over custom pc / Qobuz?  This is one area I'm pretty confused about - does a dedicated source improve the music and which route to go? Thanks.


----------



## Roasty

krt230 said:


> What source (brand / model) would be an improvement over custom pc / Qobuz?  This is one area I'm pretty confused about - does a dedicated source improve the music and which route to go? Thanks.



I'm a believer of crap in crap out and that all things in the chain matter.
Are u using a custom built pc for audio? I'm using Roon and they recommend some form of endpoint in between pc and dac.


----------



## littlej0e (Sep 6, 2021)

Double post. deleted


----------



## littlej0e (Sep 6, 2021)

krt230 said:


> What source (brand / model) would be an improvement over custom pc / Qobuz?  This is one area I'm pretty confused about - does a dedicated source improve the music and which route to go? Thanks.


Roasty nailed it. There is only so much a good DAC and amp can do with crappy source material. Ignoring the source is a huge mistake in my opinion. I commissioned a custom built Roon streamer and the difference in sound quality compared to my gaming PC was astounding.

Interestingly, I just finished building my own custom mini ITX streamer and compared Roon head-to-head against Foobar.  I’ll personally be using Foobar as I am technically inclined and found the dynamics and impact to be superior. But Roon did sound cleaner and is vastly more convenient to use, with much better content recommendations (the recommendation algorithm alone is probably worth paying for Roon). I personally think Roon is the right pick for most. I would also go to the custom server route as price-to-performance will be much better. If you already have a custom server, then I would A/B it against a commercial server before purchasing.

From a commercial server perspective, I would personally go for an Aurender N20, Antipodes K50, or Innuos statement. I demoed all three of these and like the K50 the best, but my custom streamer sounded better to my ear than all of them. Obviously YMMV.


----------



## littlej0e (Sep 6, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> If I had to pick out weaknesses, I’d say your dac, usb reclocking and using Tidal.
> 
> The DAVE is a big upgrade and it sounds great with a WA33. Your USB connection could be “dirty” so a usb reclocker would probably be a nice upgrade.
> 
> Tidal uses MQA (which Chord Dacs do not fully support) and does not have as large of a collection of hi-res albums as Qobuz. Most of the time, for the new albums I listen to, Tidal is not Hi-Res, but Quboz is (I’ve found it to be quite a big difference in hi-res album availability).



To piggy back on this as well, I 100% agree with Cigg here. I found Qobuz to be better when it came to both sound quality and availability of Hi-Rez content. You can also buy Hi-Rez music at discounted prices through Qobuz with their sublime streaming plan (they just significantly reduced the cost on sept 1st). Most of Tidal’s Hi-Rez content requires MQA compatible devices to be used to its fullest They also do not offer the option of purchasing music at all.

Lasty, if you are investing a lot of money in a high end system I personally think you owe it to yourself to at least consider investing in locally stored content, especially in .wav or .aiff formats if you can manage it. The differences in sound quality can be quite significant over Hi-Rez streamed content. Local > Qobuz > Tidal

The source can make a significant difference in a system as can the content you are playing with it.


----------



## TDinCali

Gents,

Are you buying tube upgrades through Woo exclusively or are there other sources that you trust also?

cheers!


----------



## krt230

TDinCali said:


> Gents,
> 
> Are you buying tube upgrades through Woo exclusively or are there other sources that you trust also?
> 
> cheers!



I just bought through Woo.  Couldn't find any great deals and wanted a source I trusted already.


----------



## Roasty

TDinCali said:


> Gents,
> 
> Are you buying tube upgrades through Woo exclusively or are there other sources that you trust also?
> 
> cheers!



I got most of my tubes from ebay, Parts Connexion, TubesUSA, and vacuumtubes.net.


----------



## moemoney

Roasty said:


> I got most of my tubes from ebay, Parts Connexion, TubesUSA, and vacuumtubes.net.


Parts Connexion is where I purchased my Takatsuki 300Bs and 274s I saved several hundred with them, then dealing with Woo Audio


----------



## Roasty

The replacement pair of eml 300b 2.5v have been pretty stellar. I no longer get funny puffs/sounds during the music. And the in betweens are pitch black, even with the Utopia. The mids and low end I'm getting now are everything I ever wanted. 

I am, however, having a slight channel imbalance, now causing the centre imaging to skew a bit to the right (side of the older pair of tubes) . But the Rockna Wavelight fine balance control has sorted out this issue perfectly. 






The app/firmware upgrade for the Rockna came at just the right time.

Am enjoying this album a lot right now. Love the vocals and the low end/bass line.  





I would have included a money shot of the wa33 and utopia but I think everyone may be sick of me posting those already! Have a great weekend, guys!


----------



## pippen99

Fired off a 30 day email to Jac today.  No answer yet. Now 5 months since he received the defective tubes.  Glad they are sounding good for you.  The imbalance might disappear after about 300 hours burn in.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Roasty said:


> I would have included a money shot of the


Can never have enough of these


----------



## Benny-x

pippen99 said:


> First the question.  I am currently using XLR splitters to run both my amps(WA33 EE and Cavalli Lau) off the balanced outputs of my dac(dCS Rossini).  Is there any advantage to ditching the splitters and running the Lau off the preamp out of the WA33.  If any of you are doing something similar what are your volume settings and what is the volume controlling unit?


Sorry to hear about your situation with the EML tubes, but I've been dying to read some feedback on the Cavalli LAu vs. the WA33, so I've got to ask your thoughts on them. 

I own an original LAu as well and I've lost Ng eyed the WA33, but haven't made the leap yet, so I'd appreciate hearing your impressions.


----------



## lucasratmundo

My WA33 shipped today! Can't wait


----------



## pippen99

Benny-x said:


> Sorry to hear about your situation with the EML tubes, but I've been dying to read some feedback on the Cavalli LAu vs. the WA33, so I've got to ask your thoughts on them.
> 
> I own an original LAu as well and I've lost Ng eyed the WA33, but haven't made the leap yet, so I'd appreciate hearing your impressions.


The SQ of the two amps are not dissimilar to my ears.  The Lau is the best SS amp I have ever heard and I feel very lucky to own it.  The WA33 has a richness to its sound that the Lau cannot quite match.  However one enters the realm of diminishing turns.  The WA33 is not anywhere close to being 4x better than the Lau(I have the Elite Edition.  With that being said I must confess I rarely listen to the Lau.  In fact I listened more to the WA5 I had before the WA33.  Something about the upscale Woo sound fits my ears.  The WA33 does present some challenges.

1)  Some of them hum.  Mine does.  With my ZMF VO(300 Ohm)(now sold) the hum was audible with no input and between tracks.  The hum seemed to become less audible the longer I listened but I don't know whether it was my brain becoming accustomed to the noise or it fades as used.  With my LCD-4(200 Ohm) there is no noise audible through the headphones.

2)  With all Woo products and from my readings on this Forum to obtain the best performance out of any tube amp one must upgrade from the stock tubes.  With an amp such as the WA33 that is an expensive proposition.  I have spent $5-6K on upgrade tubes.  Also tubes go bad.  So far I have had two EML 300B 2.5V tubes go bad which I am now at 5 months awaiting replacement.  *DO NOT PURCHASE EML PRODUCTS.  *I also lost a Takatsuki 274B at 13 months on a 12 month warranty with no give or take.  That's the price of using vacuum tubes.  

3)  If you want only the best SQ you have to wait for it.  I generally let the WA33 warm up a minimum of 15-20 minutes before I start listening.  Still I can detect SQ
 changes for the next 20-30 minutes.  That is one reason I still have the Lau.  If I have a limited time to listen or just want to check out a couple new tracks I flip on the Lau and once it goes through it's safety checks to my ears it sounds pretty much as good as it is going to sound.  Very little change.

4)  The WA33 is a furnace.  If listened for more than an album's worth of music it will get hot enough that putting a hand on is very uncomfortable.  It can noticeably affect the temperature of the listening area especially considering most people are listening within 5-6 feet.  Also one needs to make sure you have a serviceable area to set up the WA33.  The EE weighs in at 56 lbs.  I had to purchase a new rack to set it on as my glass shelved rack would not carry that weight.

If it sounds like I am attempting to discourage you I am not.  I love a warm signature and that is why I got the Lau.  At one time I also owned a Liquid Carbon a great small amp.  Before he shut the business down I corresponded several times with Dr. Cavalli and found him to be most accommodating and friendly.  I will keep the Lau until someone throws a boatful of money at me or they cart me off to the Home.  

I will also keep the WA33 too because of its warm and precise sound signature.  It fits my listening needs just as the LCD-4 has the signature I like*(COME ON AUDEZE WHERE IS TH LCD-5).  *I am now using the WA33 as a preamp when I do listen to the Lau and it sounds better than using the splitters.  Another vote in favor of the WA33.  I hope this helps and does not discourage you.  Good Luck


----------



## SuperBurrito

pippen99 said:


> The SQ of the two amps are not dissimilar to my ears.  The Lau is the best SS amp I have ever heard and I feel very lucky to own it.  The WA33 has a richness to its sound that the Lau cannot quite match.  However one enters the realm of diminishing turns.  The WA33 is not anywhere close to being 4x better than the Lau(I have the Elite Edition.  With that being said I must confess I rarely listen to the Lau.  In fact I listened more to the WA5 I had before the WA33.  Something about the upscale Woo sound fits my ears.  The WA33 does present some challenges.
> 
> 1)  Some of them hum.  Mine does.  With my ZMF VO(300 Ohm)(now sold) the hum was audible with no input and between tracks.  The hum seemed to become less audible the longer I listened but I don't know whether it was my brain becoming accustomed to the noise or it fades as used.  With my LCD-4(200 Ohm) there is no noise audible through the headphones.
> 
> ...


That was a super informative post - thanks!


----------



## Benny-x

pippen99 said:


> The SQ of the two amps are not dissimilar to my ears.  The Lau is the best SS amp I have ever heard and I feel very lucky to own it.  The WA33 has a richness to its sound that the Lau cannot quite match.  However one enters the realm of diminishing turns.  The WA33 is not anywhere close to being 4x better than the Lau(I have the Elite Edition.  With that being said I must confess I rarely listen to the Lau.  In fact I listened more to the WA5 I had before the WA33.  Something about the upscale Woo sound fits my ears.  The WA33 does present some challenges.
> 
> 1)  Some of them hum.  Mine does.  With my ZMF VO(300 Ohm)(now sold) the hum was audible with no input and between tracks.  The hum seemed to become less audible the longer I listened but I don't know whether it was my brain becoming accustomed to the noise or it fades as used.  With my LCD-4(200 Ohm) there is no noise audible through the headphones.
> 
> ...


That was more than I could have asked for! Probably one of the most informative posts on the WA33 and in this thread. Thanks a lot 👍


----------



## lucasratmundo

The WA33 is here! But the tubes only arrive on Monday... That's so mean


----------



## Palyodgree

I have an opportunity to purchase a used WA 33 standard right now however if I did it’ll bother me wondering how much the performance may possibly be if instead I ordered a WA 33 JPS ,.Anyone here compare the two edition’s ?


----------



## moemoney

Palyodgree said:


> I have an opportunity to purchase a used WA 33 standard right now however if I did it’ll bother me wondering how much the performance may possibly be if instead I ordered a WA 33 JPS ,.Anyone here compare the two edition’s ?


That was the main reason I didn’t buy a 33, I’m just gonna deal with my WA5 LE, because that’s maxed out.


----------



## lucasratmundo

krt230 said:


> I have the WA33 standard tubes and using the HE1000se right now.  Neither one is really broken in yet, but the music sounds bright and fatiguing - any suggestions?



I’ve just received mine and I got the same first impression: it sounds bright and fatiguing. I’ll be doing some intense burn-in in the next days. Let’s see how it goes.


----------



## cddc

moemoney said:


> That was the main reason I didn’t buy a 33, I’m just gonna deal with my WA5 LE, because that’s maxed out.




But all tube amps have to deal with component selection issue.

There will be a WA5 / WA5 LE "Elite Edition", if you will, just by using some better components, such as premium caps, transformers, cables, etc.


----------



## cddc

Or you can do the component upgrade by yourself (no matter WA5 LE or WA33) - just need some knowledge and skills, coz it will void the warranty for sure. 

I think the key differences between WA33 and WA5 are different designs/topologies, so they will sound quite different.


----------



## joseph69

Palyodgree said:


> I have an opportunity to purchase a used WA33 standard right now.


Although I've never heard any other version of the WA33 I purchased my original WA33 (standard) new, then sold it +/-1 1/2yrs later and regretted it so much 1 month later that I purchased another pre-owned WA33 standard without even a thought of buying a different version...that's how good the standard sounds too me...and even better with some nice upgraded tubes.


----------



## Palyodgree

joseph69 said:


> Although I've never heard any other version of the WA33 I purchased my original WA33 (standard) new, then sold it +/-1 1/2yrs later and regretted it so much 1 month later that I purchased another pre-owned WA33 standard without even a thought of buying a different version...that's how good the standard sounds too me...and even better with some nice upgraded tubes.


Thanks for the reply,, Though I hesitated on the purchase he sold it on me ,.I will order the standard model and get some good quality tubes to go along with it.


----------



## TDinCali

Can anyone tell me what is the purpose behind these wire connectors from the base to the tube?


----------



## Ciggavelli

TDinCali said:


> Can anyone tell me what is the purpose behind these wire connectors from the base to the tube?


It’s how the you have to put in certain tubes. It’s like an adapter


----------



## JLoud

And they look really cool! I have the same tube, and it definitely gets compliments from visitors. Even the ones who have no idea what a tube is.


----------



## cddc (Sep 22, 2021)

TDinCali said:


> Can anyone tell me what is the purpose behind these wire connectors from the base to the tube?




While the 5U4G rectifier tube coming with WA33 has all connections on the bottom pins, not all tubes work like that...LOL.

The pictured 596 rectifier tube for example has 2 connections moved from the bottom to the top (to avoid possible arcing/interference), so the 2 wires on the adapter are used to connect them back to the bottom (as the bottom socket is wired for 5U4G).

Be careful though the 2 wires are connected to the rectifier plates, so lethal high voltage there - avoid licking them in any case


----------



## joseph69

Palyodgree said:


> Thanks for the reply,, Though I hesitated on the purchase he sold it on me ,.I will order the standard model and get some good quality tubes to go along with it.


You're welcome.
I'm sure you're going to be more than extremely satisfied with your new standard WA33.


----------



## TDinCali

cddc said:


> While the 5U4G rectifier tube coming with WA33 has all connections on the bottom pins, not all tubes work like that...LOL.
> 
> The pictured 596 rectifier tube for example has 2 connections moved from the bottom to the top (to avoid possible arcing/interference), so the 2 wires on the adapter are used to connect them back to the bottom (as the bottom socket is wired for 5U4G).
> 
> Be careful though the 2 wires are connected to the rectifier plates, so lethal high voltage there - avoid licking them in any case


Damn no licking….now what am I going to do…


----------



## lucasratmundo

Tip for tube amp newbies like myself: the WA33 may sound very shouty and unbalanced at first. Tube burn-in is very real for the WA33. Don't worry: it will sound way better after a few hours of burn in, and continues to improve after a few days of intense listening. I'm getting the 6C45Pi Electro Harmonix Gold-pin and TA-274B this week and the 2A3 KR in the next few weeks. Introducing them incrementally will give me a good sense of how the upgrade tubes improve sound quality.


----------



## timeslip

I just got my zmf Verite closed stabilized headphones. They are plugged into a wa33 and I’m using a holo may as the dac. streaming from roon with hqp and naa.

The wa33 is set to high/low. The volume is barley turned up and it is way too loud. I end up turning the hqp volume to -13.

do you guys have any recommendations? I’m running single ended xlr on the headphones and connecting the mag with wa33 over Xlr.

the susvara sounds awesome on this.


----------



## atya35mm

timeslip said:


> I just got my zmf Verite closed stabilized headphones. They are plugged into a wa33 and I’m using a holo may as the dac. streaming from roon with hqp and naa.
> 
> The wa33 is set to high/low. The volume is barley turned up and it is way too loud. I end up turning the hqp volume to -13.
> 
> ...


After much experimenting, I ended up setting up my WA33 volume at max volume, and using the Dave to control the volumes. Listening ranging from -15 to -40db depending on music on the Dave. Impedance set at low and gain at low for the Susvara. Tried impedance at high sometimes, but tend to prefer low for now.


----------



## Roasty

When I had the VC I also used low/low. But I seem to prefer wa33 on low/low with all my headphones.


----------



## timeslip

atya35mm said:


> After much experimenting, I ended up setting up my WA33 volume at max volume, and using the Dave to control the volumes. Listening ranging from -15 to -40db depending on music on the Dave. Impedance set at low and gain at low for the Susvara. Tried impedance at high sometimes, but tend to prefer low for now.


On the susvara, I can run the wa33 at 12'clock just fine.  It's only the ZMF Verite that seems extremely sensitive.


----------



## lucasratmundo

timeslip said:


> On the susvara, I can run the wa33 at 12'clock just fine.  It's only the ZMF Verite that seems extremely sensitive.


With the VC, I have Low Gain, Low Impedance, usually at 12'clock.
With the Susvara, I have High Gain, Low Impedance, usually at 11'clock.


----------



## atya35mm

Hi all. After much modifications to my setup over the last few months, I'm finally ready to start tube rolling with the WA33 standard model. 

The WA33 is currently paired with Chord Dave / M scaler, so hoping tubes that would offer good transparency and possibly good weight for the low end. The tubes currently on the amp are stock driver tubes (sovtek), upgraded 6c45 tubes and the 596 USAF rectifier which has a low hum, no hum on the stock rectifier, so keen to get it replaced. 

Currently considering the Psvane ACME 2a3 with the Tak 274b rectifier. Was thinking of going for the KR driver / rectifier combo but works out to be quite expensive indeed, but might go down that path if it's worth it. 

Music taste ranges quite a bit from acoustic jazz / vocals, classical symphonies and folk / pop. Not so much into heavier music like Rock / Metal. 

Any advice would be much appreciated!


----------



## SuperBurrito

atya35mm said:


> After much experimenting, I ended up setting up my WA33 volume at max volume, and using the Dave to control the volumes. Listening ranging from -15 to -40db depending on music on the Dave. Impedance set at low and gain at low for the Susvara. Tried impedance at high sometimes, but tend to prefer low for now.


Just curious, why exactly do people seem to prefer low impedance with the Susvara?  I don't have the WA33, so am curious to know how the sound changes with different impedance settings.  Thanks


----------



## atya35mm

SuperBurrito said:


> Just curious, why exactly do people seem to prefer low impedance with the Susvara?  I don't have the WA33, so am curious to know how the sound changes with different impedance settings.  Thanks


Someone more knowledgeable with audiophile terms please jump in, but to my ears at high impedance with the Susvara, the treble energy becomes higher but less focused so seems more spread out. The effect seems similar to turning up volumes and getting more detail and background noise, but in this case not much of a volume gain, just more detail and background noise. That seems to be the change that jumps out to me the most. Bass might have similar impact, but harder to tell. Keen to hear others experience with this, but that’s just my take with small amount of time experimenting between the two. Someone mentioned on this thread earlier it’s more fatiguing on high impedance and I kinda agree.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Oct 2, 2021)

I’m gonna be honest, it’s hard to tell differences between impedance levels. I typically use low impedance for everything below 100 ohms. I also use low gain for everything except the Susvaras and when in preamp mode for my hsa-1b/SR1a.


----------



## pippen99

Ciggavelli said:


> I’m gonna be honest, it’s hard to tell differences between impedance levels. I typically use low impedance for everything below 100 ohms. I also use low gain for everything except the Susvaras and when in preamp mode for my hsa-1b/SR1a.


Since I got the WA33 I have only had the VO and LCD-4(300 and 200 Ohms respectively) so always kept on high impedance.  I have only recently started using the WA33 as a preamp when using my Lau.  How do you set it up?  I set the Lau at 3/4 volume and control the volume with the WA33.  I have never used a preamp before in my life.  Is this correct or backwards?


----------



## Ciggavelli

pippen99 said:


> Since I got the WA33 I have only had the VO and LCD-4(300 and 200 Ohms respectively) so always kept on high impedance.  I have only recently started using the WA33 as a preamp when using my Lau.  How do you set it up?  I set the Lau at 3/4 volume and control the volume with the WA33.  I have never used a preamp before in my life.  Is this correct or backwards?


You can overdrive an amp if you go too high on the volume on the WA33 in preamp mode. That happened to me with my previous JotR. I’ve found that keeping the WA33 volume at or below 12 o’clock, when in preamp mode, works best with no overdriving. If you start to hear distortion or clipping when in preamp mode, your WA33 volume is too high


----------



## pippen99

So are you saying you set the WA33 at 12 o'clock and then control volume level using the other amps volume control?


----------



## Roasty (Oct 2, 2021)

pippen99 said:


> So are you saying you set the WA33 at 12 o'clock and then control volume level using the other amps volume control?



Play with both amp volume knobs, until u find a sweet spot that u can keep the Lau at a set volume and your max usable volume (ie max loudness u can tolerate) on the wa33 is at 12.

I guess a simple way to do it, is both knobs at zero. Turn up the wa33 knob to 12, then slowly move up the Lau knob until u get the max loudness u listen with. Then u know that's the Lau knob setting.


----------



## Ciggavelli

pippen99 said:


> So are you saying you set the WA33 at 12 o'clock and then control volume level using the other amps volume control?


Yup, 12 on the WA33 and then control volume with the other amp. 

Technically, when an amp has volume control, it is also a preamp. So you are basically using 2 preamps. If you have volume control on your dac too, you’re using 3 preamps.


----------



## timeslip

lucasratmundo said:


> With the VC, I have Low Gain, Low Impedance, usually at 12'clock.
> With the Susvara, I have High Gain, Low Impedance, usually at 11'clock.



Neither of us can figure out why we have such a different experience.  We are both using Holo May as the DAC connected via xlr to the wa33 and we pretty much have the same set of tubes.  We are both using roon / hqp.

In order for me to turn it the volume knob to 12'clock, I have to set HQP to -29dB with the Verite VC.  I chatted with both Mike @ Woo, and Zach @ ZMF, who both said the wa33 is way too powerful on it's own for the VC and suggested a preamp.


----------



## pippen99

atya35mm said:


> After much experimenting, I ended up setting up my WA33 volume at max volume, and using the Dave to control the volumes. Listening ranging from -15 to -40db depending on music on the Dave. Impedance set at low and gain at low for the Susvara. Tried impedance at high sometimes, but tend to prefer low for now.


You are correct that I am using 3 preamps.  The DAC is set at 0db which I understand is full output.  The above posters method scares me a little.  I have no problem setting a DAC at full output but I do think a lot of bad can happen setting any amp at max volume.


----------



## Ciggavelli

pippen99 said:


> You are correct that I am using 3 preamps.  The DAC is set at 0db which I understand is full output.  The above posters method scares me a little.  I have no problem setting a DAC at full output but I do think a lot of bad can happen setting any amp at max volume.


I don't think he meant full volume, as in 100%.  I interpreted his comment as max volume you are comfortable with, as in if 11 o'clock on the Lau is the loudest you want to go, that is the max volume for the Lau.

So, for me, I set my Dave at -6 (as directed by Woo Audio), my WA33 at 12 o'clock, and my HSA-1b at anywhere between 11 o'clock and 2 o'clock.  So, the max volume I would want would be 2 o'clock on the HSA-1b.


----------



## atya35mm

Ciggavelli said:


> I don't think he meant full volume, as in 100%.  I interpreted his comment as max volume you are comfortable with, as in if 11 o'clock on the Lau is the loudest you want to go, that is the max volume for the Lau.
> 
> So, for me, I set my Dave at -6 (as directed by Woo Audio), my WA33 at 12 o'clock, and my HSA-1b at anywhere between 11 o'clock and 2 o'clock.  So, the max volume I would want would be 2 o'clock on the HSA-1b.


Well actually I did put on Max volume as in 5 o‘clock max volume.  In saying that, after reading alot more comments from others, I have gone back to 12 to 2 o clock and adjusting the Dave to come back to normal listening level. Still being quite new to this hobby, but is there much danger with putting amp on full volume? I started doing max volume that after reading about volume control knobs being like a brake, and putting too much brake impact sound quality. So I was treating WA33 like a power amp and just putting it at full volume and controlling volume via preamp or in this case from the Dac.


----------



## SuperBurrito

atya35mm said:


> Someone more knowledgeable with audiophile terms please jump in, but to my ears at high impedance with the Susvara, the treble energy becomes higher but less focused so seems more spread out. The effect seems similar to turning up volumes and getting more detail and background noise, but in this case not much of a volume gain, just more detail and background noise. That seems to be the change that jumps out to me the most. Bass might have similar impact, but harder to tell. Keen to hear others experience with this, but that’s just my take with small amount of time experimenting between the two. Someone mentioned on this thread earlier it’s more fatiguing on high impedance and I kinda agree.


Thanks for explaining - much appreciated.


----------



## Ciggavelli

atya35mm said:


> Well actually I did put on Max volume as in 5 o‘clock max volume.  In saying that, after reading alot more comments from others, I have gone back to 12 to 2 o clock and adjusting the Dave to come back to normal listening level. Still being quite new to this hobby, but is there much danger with putting amp on full volume? I started doing max volume that after reading about volume control knobs being like a brake, and putting too much brake impact sound quality. So I was treating WA33 like a power amp and just putting it at full volume and controlling volume via preamp or in this case from the Dac.


I’m not sure if going to max on the wa33 is bad or not, but it could be if you accidentally turn the DAVE too high.

Woo Audio recommends putting the DAVE in preamp mode at -6db. It was actually a bit of a controversy earlier im this thread. Woo Audio claims that if you keep your DAVE in DAC mode, or at a higher volume than -6, it will cause your WA33 to clip. I previously had my DAVE in dac mode and never got any clipping, but out of an abundance of caution, I’ve put the DAVE in preamp mode with a -6 volume.


----------



## atya35mm

Ciggavelli said:


> I’m not sure if going to max on the wa33 is bad or not, but it could be if you accidentally turn the DAVE too high.
> 
> Woo Audio recommends putting the DAVE in preamp mode at -6db. It was actually a bit of a controversy earlier im this thread. Woo Audio claims that if you keep your DAVE in DAC mode, or at a higher volume than -6, it will cause your WA33 to clip. I previously had my DAVE in dac mode and never got any clipping, but out of an abundance of caution, I’ve put the DAVE in preamp mode with a -6 volume.


Thanks, yes with WA33 at 12 to 2 o'clock, I'm definitely below -6db. Rob Watts in the Dave thread seems confident on the digital volume control of the Dave that going lower volume than -6db is an ok compromise for me.


----------



## linshu1992 (Oct 5, 2021)

Hi folks!

I'm new to this thread, but I recently got a chance to listen to WA33 and compare it with Ampsandsound Nautilus on Utopia, and thought I'd share my impression.

WA33 (stock tubes. They mentioned some wires have been changed, but not sure if it's the jps edition): A nice warm sound. Has a very subtle musicality to it. Imaging, tone, and soundstage are all excellent, but what really steals the show is the musicality. It’s hard to describe, but it feels like a sophisticated play of detail, coloring, and imaging. It’s like at every twist of note, there’s just this little bit of flair to it that leaves you feeling "touched". The best analogy I can think of is a piece of impressionism painting - every bit of elements on the canvas somehow work together to bring out a subtle emotion, that makes me want to hold my breath, and my heart just skipped a beat.

Nautilus: A very serious competitor. But compared to WA33, the qualities of Nautilus is less subtle and a lot easier to understand. It has a thicker, fuller sound than WA33, especially in the mids, but I think it's true for all frequency ranges. It’s not a lot thicker, but just a tad to create some interesting effect. The thicker sound generates a bit more sparkles, and can be very addictive. But at the same time, I felt Nautilus is a little congested - it’s as if Nautilus is squeezing the energy of different parts of sound and bind them together which creates very musical sparkles, but at the same time, I felt the emphasized midrange is all where my attention is. If WA33’s sound is strings layered in an intricate pattern on a table, Nautilus is like those strings braided into a thick strand that carries a lot of energy. The painting analogy I can think of here is Picasso's - simpler lines and shapes, but super well delivered. Compared to WA33, there's almost no heat generated on Nautilus, and it's never too warm to touch. That is something I can appreciate a lot!

I also tried out some SS amps such as Phonitor and GS-X MK2, but IMO they can't compete with WA33 or Nautilus on musicality, which is something I love.


----------



## Roasty

linshu1992 said:


> Hi folks!
> 
> I'm new to this thread, but I recently got a chance to listen to WA33 and compare it with Ampsandsound Nautilus on Utopia, and thought I'd share my impression.
> 
> ...



Did u end up ordering a wa33?
What do u usually use with the Utopia? 

Am very thankful u included that last paragraph on the phonitor, because I was actually thinking about the that amp to pair with the utopia (also because I really like how it looks).


----------



## linshu1992

Roasty said:


> Did u end up ordering a wa33?
> What do u usually use with the Utopia?
> 
> Am very thankful u included that last paragraph on the phonitor, because I was actually thinking about the that amp to pair with the utopia (also because I really like how it looks).


I do have a wa33 coming my way. Right now I am using schiit mjolnir 2 for utopia.

Phonitor is one amp I’ve always been very curious. It sounded accurate, flat, and boring. You may be perfectly happy with the sound but after hearing the other flagship tube amps there’s just no comparison. Phonitor also has a ton of ground noise which I’m not sure why.


----------



## lucasratmundo

What's the tube combination that brings the deepest bass response in your experience?


----------



## littlej0e

lucasratmundo said:


> What's the tube combination that brings the deepest bass response in your experience?


All KR power and rectifier tubes with 6C45Pi electro-harmonix Gold-pin drivers. Collectively, the KRs + GPs hit like a truck. I personally still think the KRs + Tak + GPs are the best choice though. Much more space and clarity combined with the deep bass response. In my opinion, it's the best all-around "have your cake and eat it too" setup.


----------



## lucasratmundo

littlej0e said:


> All KR power and rectifier tubes with 6C45Pi electro-harmonix Gold-pin drivers. Collectively, the KRs + GPs hit like a truck. I personally still think the KRs + Tak + GPs are the best choice though. Much more space and clarity combined with the deep bass response. In my opinion, it's the best all-around "have your cake and eat it too" setup.



I have the KRs + Tak + GPs combo now and I agree on the space and clarity! Bass response is pretty good, I’m just wonder if I could get just a little bit more bass quantity with other tubes without compromising too much on sound quality.


----------



## littlej0e

lucasratmundo said:


> I have the KRs + Tak + GPs combo now and I agree on the space and clarity! Bass response is pretty good, I’m just wonder if I could get just a little bit more bass quantity with other tubes without compromising too much on sound quality.


The short answer is yes, you could get a little more bass by replacing your Tak with a KR, but you'll loose much of the space and clarity. It's obviously up to you if those tradeoffs will be worth it. You could also look into EQing or some sort of mad scientist setup to add more bass (like adding a hard hitting ss amp in front of your WA33). EQing probably makes the most sense in your situation.


----------



## TDinCali

Just got these today. Check out the packaging. The best I’ve seen to date.


----------



## pippen99

I received my replacement EML 300B 2.5v solid plate tubes Monday.  I have been burning them in and now have about 20 hours on them.  I did not have a pair of headphones to test how they were progressing until today when I received my new Audeze LCD-5.  I cannot tell any difference between the two pairs either in sound or construction.  I had forgotten how good they sound!  Our friend @Roasty in Singapore loves his replacements and plans to keep using them.  I however am not so inclined.  Mine will eventually go up for sale.  Before I do I thought I would put this up to the folks on this thread or even the folks on the DNA threads.  I will trade my EML 2A3 Mesh quad plus my EML 300B  2.5v Solid Plate quad for your KR HP 2A3 quad.  Anybody interested in this kind of trade hit me up with a PM.  I will wait for a week before listing to give anybody on this thread the time to respond.


----------



## Roasty

Out of curiousity...

Rockna Wavelight 
RCA out to Singxer SA-1
XLR out WA33, and then WA33 pre-out to Singxer SA-1 (XLR to XLR input on SA-1)

i volume matched as closely as i could so that when i flick the switch on the SA-1 from RCA to XLR inputs, the volume remains the same.
turns out, i can't make out any difference when using the WA33 as a pre to the Singxer VS direct from dac to Singxer.
i would have thought i'd hear some differences, but i didn't.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Roasty said:


> Out of curiousity...
> 
> Rockna Wavelight
> RCA out to Singxer SA-1
> ...


That's odd. 
Certainly would have expected some noteable differences.


----------



## Roasty

ThanatosVI said:


> That's odd.
> Certainly would have expected some noteable differences.



Yea me too. 
When I flick the switch up or down, there is zero break in the music, and I can't hear any difference at all.. Lol!


----------



## Shini44

the beast is here~~  LCD-5 Boiz >:3







i have LCD-4 and for me i Honestly like it with  WA33 EE JPS more than i like Abyss and Susvara. Focal is my 2nd favorite.


i will test this sometimes this week.    btw LCD-4 isn't lacking Treble with my setup. interconnect cables are upgraded ofc. 


will let you guys know what i think about LCD-4 vs LCD-5 sometime soon hopefully :3


----------



## TDinCali

I’m bored….Still burning in the tubes….listening a little, and now taking pics out of boredom. I must be close to 20 hours at this point.


----------



## littlej0e

It is with deep sadness that I report I have sold my WA33 Elite Edition w/JPS along with the Tak, KR, and Gold pin tubes to a couple of fellow head-fiers (who shall remain anonymous unless they chose not to). I ultimately decided to go with a full blown neutrality and accuracy wh0re setup with the CFA3 custom amp + Soulution 560 DAC as it gives me significantly more and better triggers with my synesthesia. I haven't a clue as to why and its actually kind of annoying...  

However, I did get a chance to do a pretty extensive comparison between the WA33 and the CFA3 using the 560 DAC and the cliff notes version is; the WA33 + 560 combo pretty much destroys the CFA3 + 560 in almost every way save for accuracy, neutrality, balance, and bass. The WA33 + 560 is basically ear sex housed in aluminum. I can also confirm the WA33 EE JPS does seem to scale with whatever you put around it, even at the ultra high end. Truly remarkable amplifier. Choices are so hard: 





Anyway, just wanted to thank everyone in this thread for all of the information, assistance, recommendations, etc. My ears are going to miss the WA33 EE JPS *so much*...


----------



## TDinCali

And I’m happy to say I purchased a WA33 Elite JPS 😁 and will therefore need to sell my WA33 standard edition.


----------



## Roasty

littlej0e said:


> The WA33 + 560 is basically ear sex housed in aluminum.



LOL this is gold. Congrats on your new toy!


----------



## Ciggavelli (Oct 15, 2021)

littlej0e said:


> It is with deep sadness that I report I have sold my WA33 Elite Edition w/JPS along with the Tak, KR, and Gold pin tubes to a couple of fellow head-fiers (who shall remain anonymous unless they chose not to). I ultimately decided to go with a full blown neutrality and accuracy wh0re setup with the CFA3 custom amp + Soulution 560 DAC as it gives me significantly more and better triggers with my synesthesia. I haven't a clue as to why and its actually kind of annoying...
> 
> However, I did get a chance to do a pretty extensive comparison between the WA33 and the CFA3 using the 560 DAC and the cliff notes version is; the WA33 + 560 combo pretty much destroys the CFA3 + 560 in almost every way save for accuracy, neutrality, balance, and bass. The WA33 + 560 is basically ear sex housed in aluminum. I can also confirm the WA33 EE JPS does seem to scale with whatever you put around it, even at the ultra high end. Truly remarkable amplifier. Choices are so hard:
> 
> ...


Wow, the CFA3 must be amazing. I was reading your posts in the DIY section, and it sounds like you loved the WA33 as a preamp to the CFA3. That’s got me very curious. The CFA3 only costs $3K too?  Schiit’s crazy. I gotta look more into it


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 15, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> Wow, the CFA3 must be amazing. I was reading your posts in the DIY section, and it sounds like you loved the WA33 as a preamp to the CFA3. That’s got me very curious. The CFA3 only costs $3K too?  Schiit’s crazy. I gotta look more into it



To be clear, sonically, I liked the WA33 significantly more than the CFA3 paired with the Soulution 560 DAC and I think 97% of people probably would too. The CFA3 just gives me significantly more triggers and I don't know why. That is literally the only reason I kept it and sold the WA33. I think it might have something to do with the increased accuracy and the significantly more balanced sound. I guess my whacked out biology ultimately resulted in @TDinCali's gain . Enjoy, Mr. TD!

The CFA3 really is a _phenomenal_ amp with unmatched performance for the price...but it's not a WA33 EE JPS. Nothing else is. With the 560, the CFA3 can't really touch most of what the WA33 does best. Namely, staging, separation, refinement, holographics and musicality. The WA33 is in a completely different league in these areas. It turns out the comparison between the two was considerably closer with the Schitt modi 2 DAC I was using until my 560 arrived. Just goes to show you how much every component really matters at the high end and the WA33 seems to scale a little better.

All of that said...

The combo of the WA33 and the CFA3 is flat out *amazing*. I'm still cleaning up tiny bits of brain matter off the walls in my office. I suspect with the right tube preamp, the CFA3 (or a similarly high performing SS amp) could get remarkably close to, if not beat, the WA33 EE JPS in some areas. But you'd likely have to shell out a $hit-ton of money for an outstanding preamp just to get close, and at that point you might be better off just getting a WA33...lol. The WA33 imparted far more of it's characteristics on the CFA3 than the other way around. However, together they created this sublimely elegant and complete sound all dipped in Woo sauce. It's like listening to a WA33 with slightly more edge, remarkably equal balance and slightly stronger impact across the highs, mids, and lows, with ever-so-slightly more clarity, detail, and bass quantity. It is easily the best and most complete sound I have ever heard out of any system. Below is a short excerpt from the comparison update I'm writing for the CFA3 thread. It outlines the different configurations I tried.

_WA33 + CFA3 (WA33 in Preamp) 
The Good: 
Best of both worlds with the most balanced overall presentation. Better than either amp by itself. Nothing earth-shattering, but a great marriage between the two. 

The Bad: 
Doesn't kick as hard as the other configurations. 
Slight hit to clarity, resolution & detail across the board. 
My system pulls upwards of 500w with both amps (and everything else) running. It cooks my office like the 7th circle of hell in about 30 minutes.

WA33 + CFA3 (front 3 pin on WA33 w/male-to-male adapter to rear XLR on the CFA3)
The Good: 
- Significantly more bass slam than any other configuration.  
- The stage is slightly more narrow with significantly more depth (huh?!? Not sure how this is possible, but it's clearly there.) 
- The dynamics are dialed up to 11. This configuration is truly something to behold. Leaves me in slack-jawed amazement every time.
- The clarity, resolution, and detail are all stupidly good and razor sharp. It's the clearest, cleanest, and most resolving sound I've ever heard out of the Abyss TCs and reminds me a bit of the SR1as (which are obviously still better in these areas)

The Bad: 
- The overall presentation is looser, especially in the low end.
- Oddly "V-shaped" sound. The mids are significantly thinner, even with low impedance set on the Woo. Seemed to be slightly track dependant, but still a clear trend.  
- Power & Heat. My system pulls upwards of 500w with both amps (and everything else) running. It still cooks my office like the 7th circle of hell._


----------



## jlbrach

littlej0e said:


> It is with deep sadness that I report I have sold my WA33 Elite Edition w/JPS along with the Tak, KR, and Gold pin tubes to a couple of fellow head-fiers (who shall remain anonymous unless they chose not to). I ultimately decided to go with a full blown neutrality and accuracy wh0re setup with the CFA3 custom amp + Soulution 560 DAC as it gives me significantly more and better triggers with my synesthesia. I haven't a clue as to why and its actually kind of annoying...
> 
> However, I did get a chance to do a pretty extensive comparison between the WA33 and the CFA3 using the 560 DAC and the cliff notes version is; the WA33 + 560 combo pretty much destroys the CFA3 + 560 in almost every way save for accuracy, neutrality, balance, and bass. The WA33 + 560 is basically ear sex housed in aluminum. I can also confirm the WA33 EE JPS does seem to scale with whatever you put around it, even at the ultra high end. Truly remarkable amplifier. Choices are so hard:
> 
> ...


WA33 + 560 combo pretty much destroys the CFA3 + 560 in almost every way save for accuracy, neutrality, balance, and bass. 

Huh?.....accuracy,neutrality,balance and bass?...what else is there?


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 16, 2021)

jlbrach said:


> WA33 + 560 combo pretty much destroys the CFA3 + 560 in almost every way save for accuracy, neutrality, balance, and bass.
> 
> Huh?.....accuracy,neutrality,balance and bass?...what else is there?



For starters 

The Woo has: 
- Immensely bigger soundstage
- Significantly better separation with more space between instruments
- Significantly more refined
- Significantly better holographics
- Significantly better musicality
- Noticeably  better clarity, resolution, and detail
- Noticeably better attack, sustain, and decay
- Noticeably better dynamics
- Slightly tighter overall sound, most notably bass


----------



## joseph69

littlej0e said:


> For starters
> 
> The Woo has:
> - Immensely bigger soundstage
> ...


Okay, am I the only one here that can't for the life of me understand why you would sell the WA33 and buy the CFA3 after speaking so highly of the WA33, but only mentioning the CFA3 "better triggers your synesthesia"? Am I missing something here?


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 17, 2021)

joseph69 said:


> Okay, am I the only one here that can't for the life of me understand why you would sell the WA33 and buy the CFA3 after speaking so highly of the WA33, but only mentioning the CFA3 "better triggers your synesthesia"? Am I missing something here?


If you had synesthesia as badly/good/as strongly as I do, you would understand. My auditory listening pleasure is a VERY distant second to the effects I get from synesthesia. It trumps everything else for me. Nice audio is great, but seeing colors, incredibly vivid imagery, feeling like your getting jerked out of your chair backwards, flying, etc. is better.


----------



## joseph69

littlej0e said:


> If you had synesthesia as badly/good/as strongly as I do, you would understand. My auditory listening pleasure is a VERY distant second to the effects I get from synesthesia. It trumps everything else for me.


So the WA33 gives you all you mentioned but lacks the synesthesia you're experiencing with the CFA3?


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 17, 2021)

joseph69 said:


> So the WA33 gives you all you mentioned but lacks the synesthesia you're experiencing with the CFA3?


No. The WA33 affects my synesthesia quite a bit, but the CFA affects it more. I don't know why...yet.


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 17, 2021)

These are the most common: 

Seeing static or moving colors, 
Feel like I am flying, 
Riding a roller coaster,
Falling, 
Jerked back out of my chair, 
Someone is putting their hand on my chest and rocking me, 
Intense "scenes" with vivid imagery, 
Intense rush of endorphins, akin to an orgasm (this tends to be the most common with great vocals)
I know all of this is probably very confusing for folks. Sorry about that. Selling the amp with better SQ must seem pretty stupid


----------



## Roasty

littlej0e said:


> I know all of this is probably very confusing for folks. Sorry about that. Selling the amp with better SQ must seem pretty stupid



Nah... Stupid is keeping the amp which didn't offer you a more enjoyable listening experience. I'm sure you weighed it thoroughly and made the right choice for you. That's all that matters.


----------



## littlej0e (Oct 17, 2021)

Roasty said:


> Nah... Stupid is keeping the amp which didn't offer you a more enjoyable listening experience. I'm sure you weighed it thoroughly and made the right choice for you. That's all that matters.


Exactly. I get why it might confuse people though. I mean, why on earth would anyone sell the amp that sounds better?!?

Incidentally, I'm learning a lot of it seems to be tied to accuracy and balance across all areas: highs, mids, and lows. It also seems I can guide the effect buy the components. Using the Schitt modi 2 has a much more raw and distortion-y presentation and gives me more endorphins, but he 560 gives me all sorts of other amazing crap...lol. This is nuts.


----------



## Stefanbat

Hello. 
I would like to ask does anybody know, do you need matched quad 2a3 or double matched pairs are ok ?


----------



## Roasty

Stefanbat said:


> Hello.
> I would like to ask does anybody know, do you need matched quad 2a3 or double matched pairs are ok ?



Answering with reference to 300b 2.5v tubes.. 

I had quad matched. But one pair sent back for exchange. Got a pair of new ones sent over. 

I now have very slight channel imbalance which is remedied by the L/R balance control on my dac. 

So volume issue for mine. But I do not know if there is any detriment to the amp itself ie I know the amp is self biasing for tubes but I don't know if the two channels are done separately. 

Perhaps someone with more technical knowledge can chime in.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Roasty said:


> Answering with reference to 300b 2.5v tubes..
> 
> I had quad matched. But one pair sent back for exchange. Got a pair of new ones sent over.
> 
> ...


Wouldn't you use one tube of each matched pair for each channel.
Not the matched tubes on the same channel?

Sure your EML disaster gave you only one tube instead of a matched pair,  but if using two matched pairs you shouldn't have any channel imbalance.


----------



## Roasty

ThanatosVI said:


> Wouldn't you use one tube of each matched pair for each channel.
> Not the matched tubes on the same channel?
> 
> Sure your EML disaster gave you only one tube instead of a matched pair,  but if using two matched pairs you shouldn't have any channel imbalance.



I'm not entirely sure how it should be placed. I would have thought matched tubes should go into the same channel. But the issue is small and sorted by the dac.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Roasty said:


> I'm not entirely sure how it should be placed. I would have thought matched tubes should go into the same channel. But the issue is small and sorted by the dac.


I was under the impression that the whole point of tube matching is to have it balanced on both channels. As in have the tube for the left channel matched with the one on the right.
Could be wrong though


----------



## JLoud

Matched pairs should have very similar output. You want the left and right to be as close as possible. With two matched pairs I would split them between channels. 
Such as one matched pair split between the two back tube locations and the other matched pair between the two front locations.


----------



## Roasty

JLoud said:


> Matched pairs should have very similar output. You want the left and right to be as close as possible. With two matched pairs I would split them between channels.
> Such as one matched pair split between the two back tube locations and the other matched pair between the two front locations.



Ah I see. Thanks!
Just a curious question: what if the outputs between the two pairs of matched tubes are very different?


----------



## JLoud

If the pairs are truly matched, and you split the pairs between the channels, the output should be matched very closely.


----------



## JLoud

An example would be if pair one was 3.2 and 3.3 and pair two was 4.1 and 4.2 and split them between channels=3.2+4.1 and 3.3+4.2. Totals would be 7.3 and 7.5. If that makes sense. And the numbers I picked were totaly at random not representative of actual numbers.


----------



## Stefanbat

And if they are not matched within one channel ( like in the example 3.2+4.1) that is not a problem for the amp ?


----------



## JLoud

Opinions seem to vary. But with a self biasing amp like Woo, I don’t think it is as critical.


----------



## Shini44

i wrote a review on LCD-4 vs LCD-5 here for those who also own WA33 EE (JPS Wired) and interested in LCD-5 on their amazing and beloved WA33 <3

*https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audeze-lcd-5-review-measurements-interview.959808/post-16622259*


----------



## Drewligarchy (Oct 26, 2021)

My Wa33 SE has been traded back to Woo and I just received:

Woo Wa33 Elite Edition
Quad of KR HP 2a3
KR HP 274b
Electro Harmonix 6c45pi gold pin
Western Electric 417a/5842

As you might imagine, I’m a bit busy at the moment.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Drewligarchy said:


> My Wa33 SE has been traded back to Woo and I just received:
> 
> Woo Wa33 Elite Edition
> Quad of KR HP 2a3
> ...


What type is the Western Electric?
Never heard of that in the context of Wa33.

With WA33 SE you meant Standard Edition? Or is there a special Edition that you can only get via mail inquiry?


----------



## Drewligarchy

Standard edition





ThanatosVI said:


> What type is the Western Electric?
> Never heard of that in the context of Wa33.
> 
> With WA33 SE you meant Standard Edition? Or is there a special Edition that you can only get via mail inquiry?



Standard Edition. And the WE’s are driver tubes - and work with adapters.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Drewligarchy said:


> Standard edition
> 
> Standard Edition. And the WE’s are driver tubes - and work with adapters.


Interesting, I always was bummed out about the lack of driver options.
Nice to see some options with adapters


----------



## joseph69

Drewligarchy said:


> And the WE’s are driver tubes - and work with adapters.


Was Woo aware of the WE drivers & adapters you're going to be using?
If so, would you mind sharing this information, please? Thanks.


----------



## Stefanbat

Here is some info about tubes that are similiar to 6c45:
https://www.diy-audio-guide.com/6c45.html 
I am very interested about comparison of WE 417a to 6c45


----------



## Drewligarchy

joseph69 said:


> Was Woo aware of the WE drivers & adapters you're going to be using?
> If so, would you mind sharing this information, please? Thanks.



Yes Joe - that's where I got them. They are now offering both the NOS WE Tubes and the adapter for sale for the Wa33:

https://wooaudio.com/tubes/417a-5842-tube-with-adapter-quad


----------



## Drewligarchy

Stefanbat said:


> Here is some info about tubes that are similiar to 6c45:
> https://www.diy-audio-guide.com/6c45.html
> I am very interested about comparison of WE 417a to 6c45



I haven't listened to them yet. I changed so much yesterday, that I wanted to make sure I could hear the specific difference from the drivers. Right now, I am burning in the KR Quad and Rectifier with EH Gold Pin. After I get a handle on the sound, I'll switch up the drivers.

But my initial impressions coming from the Wa33 SE "Wow"


----------



## ThanatosVI

Drewligarchy said:


> Yes Joe - that's where I got them. They are now offering both the NOS WE Tubes and the adapter for sale for the Wa33:
> 
> https://wooaudio.com/tubes/417a-5842-tube-with-adapter-quad


The adapters look also really nice


----------



## joseph69

ThanatosVI said:


> The adapters look also really nice


Woo adapters have always been very nice.


----------



## JLoud

Wow that is a steep price for a quad. Compared to the other upgrade choice they would have to sound amazing. Let us know what you think.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Burning in with Michael Giacchino and Susvara.


----------



## Drewligarchy

JLoud said:


> Wow that is a steep price for a quad. Compared to the other upgrade choice they would have to sound amazing. Let us know what you think.



All I know is I can’t go back to the old driver tubes now


----------



## Drewligarchy




----------



## Roasty

@Drewligarchy you mentioned SE, but that looks like an EE? 

Anyways, beautiful setup man! Congrats! Looks like the second shelf space could fit a dcs Rossini... Heh...


----------



## Drewligarchy (Oct 27, 2021)

Roasty said:


> @Drewligarchy you mentioned SE, but that looks like an EE?
> 
> Anyways, beautiful setup man! Congrats! Looks like the second shelf space could fit a dcs Rossini... Heh...



Ha - I was thinking Bartok given the pounding my wallet has taken, But Rossini would certainly put my wallet out of its misery.

Thanks for the well wishes. I meant I traded in the standard edition to Woo for the discount they offer against against the EE.


----------



## joseph69

Drewligarchy said:


> All I know is I can’t go back to the old driver tubes now


What differences do you hear between the EHX 6C45Pi & the WE 417A/5842 so far without sufficient burn in?


----------



## Roasty

Drewligarchy said:


> Ha - I was thinking Bartok given the pounding my wallet has taken, But Rossini would certainly put my wallet out of its misery.
> 
> Thanks for the well wishes. I meant I traded in the standard edition to Woo for the discount they offer against against the EE.



Lol.. Dont delay the inevitable.. Do the right thing, and just put it out of its misery!


----------



## Drewligarchy

joseph69 said:


> What differences do you hear between the EHX 6C45Pi & the WE 417A/5842 so far without sufficient burn in?



I definitely need more time - but they sound smoother, fuller and more extended - with greater detail. They sound more vivid, and vocals (especially female vocals) sound more real. The KR’s sound warm to me in a good way, and the drivers further increase detail without any added edge. Keep in mind I’m trying a lot of things at once - but the only thing I changed today were the drivers, and listened to the gold pin for many hours last night.

Also I have a new amp and all my tubes are burning in, so it’s hard to attribute it to just that - but that was my immediate reaction when I just swapped those tube.


----------



## joseph69

Drewligarchy said:


> I definitely need more time - but they sound smoother, fuller and more extended - with greater detail. They sound more vivid, and vocals (especially female vocals) sound more real. The KR’s sound warm to me in a good way, and the drivers further increase detail without any added edge. Keep in mind I’m trying a lot of things at once - but the only thing I changed today were the drivers, and listened to the gold pin for many hours last night.
> 
> Also I have a new amp and all my tubes are burning in, so it’s hard to attribute it to just that - but that was my immediate reaction when I just swapped those tube.


Very nice.
Yes, I totally understand that everything you have is new so you have a long road ahead before hearing the end results.
Furthermore, as you mentioned, changing multiple things at one time could make you miss out on the benefits of another.


----------



## joseph69

Placed an order for the NOS WE 417A/5842 tubes to take the place of my EHX 6C45Pi Gold Pins and drive my EML 2A3 solid plate power tubes. Thanks for the heads up @Drewligarchy


----------



## Roasty

joseph69 said:


> Placed an order for the NOS WE 417A/5842 tubes to take the place of my EHX 6C45Pi Gold Pins and drive my EML 2A3 solid plate power tubes. Thanks for the heads up @Drewligarchy



I'm so glad u did that! 
Looking forward to reading your impressions on those tubes.


----------



## joseph69

Roasty said:


> I'm so glad u did that!
> Looking forward to reading your impressions on those tubes.


Thanks.
I figured instead of buying the KR HP's and 274B and changing everything at one time, it'll be easier for me to hear the differences by just changing the tubes one step at a time, especially since I'm very aquatinted with the sound of my current tube set up. Should be interesting.


----------



## GoldenOne

Anyone here experimented much with the 6c45 tubes? Seems like it's basically either electro-harmonix gold pin or sovtek and no other choices.

Are there any other rolling options that work well?

I've got some psvane ACME 2a3's on the way and a USAF 596 but it seems there are basically no options even as side grades for the 6c45's


----------



## Roasty

GoldenOne said:


> Anyone here experimented much with the 6c45 tubes? Seems like it's basically either electro-harmonix gold pin or sovtek and no other choices.
> 
> Are there any other rolling options that work well?
> 
> I've got some psvane ACME 2a3's on the way and a USAF 596 but it seems there are basically no options even as side grades for the 6c45's



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/woos-new-flagship-wa33.843710/post-16631425


----------



## Drewligarchy

I intend to write a review/comparison at some point in comparison to the Wa33 SE I had for 18 months - but need a bit more listening time, and will roll some tubes as well.

That said, @Ciggavelli said this before and it's true: The Susvara scales ALOT with the Wa33 EE (As a note, I don't have the JPS wiring so can't speak to those changes). It's amazing how much better it is! I have been an Abyss fanboy for quite some time - but now it's 1a and 1b. If you own the Susvara, I think you owe it to yourself to demo on the Elite Edition, JPS or otherwise.


----------



## mahesvara

The WE417A tubes and adapters from Woo Audio do wonderful things to my WA33 Elite and Abyss Phi TC headphones as well. I used to have the old upgrade driver tubes, the Electroharmonix gold pins. I got the tubes and adapter at the end of August, when Jack Wu reached out to me and offered me a chance to buy the tubes and newly developed adapters early because he knew I'd jump at any opportunity to improve the sound of my audio chain. Woo was still in the process of manufacturing the adapters and hadn't offered them for purchase on their site then, so I didn't post about it.

The one thing you'd immediately notice after you swap in the new tubes is that they provide a big improvement to the low end of the sound spectrum. With the new tubes, the bass suddenly became much cleaner and more impactful. There's more space around each note and depth separation is clearer, all contributing to a more holographic soundscape. The difference isn't subtle. You put the tubes in, you turn 33 on, and you'll hear it immediately. There's no noise or hum from the tubes that I could hear, but for what it's worth, the only headphones I use with 33 is Abyss Phi TC, and it's not a sensitive headphones like the Utopia.

I'd have to stress that WA33 sounds amazing with the old driver tubes, but the WE417 brought it to a new level. The tubes and adapters aren't cheap, but I kinda suspect that if you already have WA33 or 33 Elite, cost isn't as big a factor, so I'd highly recommend purchasing the tubes and adapters. You'd be happy and forget about the cost when you get to listen to them.

These adapters were the first ones I purchased from Woo, so I didn't have any expectation. But man, they're well made!


----------



## Darkliner

Wow the we417a sold out fast on the woo website.  I noticed they are listing another tube raytheon 5842.  Anyone knows if this sounds similar to the 417a?


----------



## innocentblood

Darkliner said:


> Wow the we417a sold out fast on the woo website.  I noticed they are listing another tube raytheon 5842.  Anyone knows if this sounds similar to the 417a?


I wonder if it is gone for good...


----------



## Darkliner

Just placed an order for a black wa33 elite jps edition! The waiting game begins!


----------



## WooAudio

Thank you @mahesvara for sharing your thoughts. It is hard holding out the excitement for months. It is a long process fine-tuning this adapter as we wanted to make them match the profile of the 417A/5284. We made it from the ground up (the same as the 596 adapters) because these are very special tubes and look gorgeous. The 417A/5284 is incredibly small compared to the typical 9-pin miniature, but they make a huge sound. We are happy to take the efforts to make them work so the WA33 owners can experience them and get more out of their beloved amp.

We just released some more Western Electric and they are on the site now. They are very rare and we wanted to give the opportunity to other WA33 owners as well. Raytheon 5284 offers similar sound characters and performance as the WE. You should be happy with either of them.

Jack


----------



## Drewligarchy (Oct 30, 2021)

Before my full review of Wa33 Elite, as there hasn't been many comparisons with the SE - I am providing some early notes. I know I've been a bit abstract with the way I have discussed "emotion", but tried to explain the best I could.

- The Wa33 Elite's coolest trick is that it can be completely liquid, full and voluptuous while stilling being incredible vivid and transparent. Notes melt together. Euphony is off the charts good - but it's still quite accurate.
- As a result, I completely understand why it's been described by some as a "feels" machine. In terms of emotional experience, music is visceral whereas many other forms of art (e.g. movies) are cerebral. What I mean by this is when you hear music, you directly feel an emotion. When you watch a movie, your brain parses the story which leads to an emotional response. The Wa33 Elite takes me closer to the emotional essence of the performance. It's presentation pushes those emotional buttons longer and harder as a result.
- Both the Wa33 SE and the Wa33 Elite provide large soundstages with excellent imaging. That said, the Wa33 SE sounds more solid state to me, whereas the Elite sounds like a tube amp through and through, in a good way. The Wa33 SE is more analytical which can be a positive or negative based on your preferences and system. With the Wa33 SE, I found myself picking apart the performance a bit more, and didn't find this with the Wa33 Elite. The Elite rather, provides a more cohesive, holistic, presentation intent on conveying the emotional intent of the music.
- I've had problems with fatigue in the past with Dave/Mscaler. The Wa33 Elite is the smoothest thing I've ever listened to without even providing a hint of listening fatigue in combination with Dave/Mscaler. I could listen to it for 5 hours straight, (and did last night). Before I received the Elite, I was considering getting a new DAC. I'm no longer considering that.
- The Wa33 Elite provides the best mids for the Abyss I've ever heard. I consider the LCD4 the gold standard in mids - and the Elite makes the Abyss mids sound like the LCD4 but with all the other characteristics (bass, texture, detail, slam, staging, treble extension) - that the Abyss is known for.
-  The Wa33 Elite is signficantly more vivid than the Wa33 SE. Tonal color is bold. This is why I feel like it does such a good job with the Susvara. In some setups, I feel like the Susvara can seem a little tame and bland in the mids. The Wa33 Elite makes the mids of the Susvara more exciting to me - and allows me to have much greater appreciation for that headphone as a whole.

Two examples which I think illustrate the points above:

*Batik - The Old Man and The Sea*

Abyss: Piano notes melt together, tone is vivid, big, thick, rich tonal shapes from bass and drums - taps in directly to the emotional center in my brain.




*Hilary Hahn - Bach Concertos*

Susvara: This is how violins should sound (or at least, how I most enjoy them). Not a hint of sharpness, but reach out and touch texture and tangibility. Timbre sounds spot on.



*TLDR: *The Wa33 SE is an amazing amp. It was my favorite amp until I picked up the Elite Edition earlier this week  Whereas both amps get you closer to the music than almost anything else available, the Wa33 EE gets you closer to the emotional intent of the music - than I previously thought possible.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Nov 3, 2021)

I can’t stop listening to the Wa33 Elite with my Abyss TC and my amp and tubes have burned in nicely for the last week.

Congrats to @WooAudio - this thing is a freaking triumph. Also to @Clive101 , @Ciggavelli and others for helping me decide to get one


----------



## Lucky87

Drewligarchy said:


> I can’t stop listening to the Wa33 Elite with my Abyss TC and my amp and tubes have burned in nicely for the last week.
> 
> Congrats to @WooAudio - this thing is a freaking triumph. Also to @Clive101 , @Ciggavelli and others for helping me decide to get one


Awesome write up above and I’m running basically the exact setup other than the newer Western Electric 417A tube upgrade which I will definitely buy soon. I am demoing a JPS Labs Superconductor HP upgrade cable for Abyss 1266 TC from TheCableCompany this week along with the Diana Phi headphone which is like a small mini version of the 1266. Listen last night 5 hours and I’m on 4 hours tonight with the 1266 TC & Susvara’s. The detail and resolution is insane with these hp’s and my brain is on overload from Miles Davis Kind of Blue then to Tool Fear Inoculum then to Metallica live in SF I just can’t stop. If you get a chance try the Superconductor cable for the TC I’m sold on the cable.  It took about 100 hours on my KR HP tubes with the 6C45Pi gold pins to opened up, and what you hearing now is a small portion on what to come.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Lucky87 said:


> Awesome write up above and I’m running basically the exact setup other than the newer Western Electric 417A tube upgrade which I will definitely buy soon. I am demoing a JPS Labs Superconductor HP upgrade cable for Abyss 1266 TC from TheCableCompany this week along with the Diana Phi headphone which is like a small mini version of the 1266. Listen last night 5 hours and I’m on 4 hours tonight with the 1266 TC & Susvara’s. The detail and resolution is insane with these hp’s and my brain is on overload from Miles Davis Kind of Blue then to Tool Fear Inoculum then to Metallica live in SF I just can’t stop. If you get a chance try the Superconductor cable for the TC I’m sold on the cable.  It took about 100 hours on my KR HP tubes with the 6C45Pi gold pins to opened up, and what you hearing now is a small portion on what to come.



Beautiful setup. Is that stand for the Dave/MScaler a simple monitor stand? I think my wife has it for her computer monitor - but it looks super sleek the way you’ve used it.


----------



## pippen99

Got the WA33 back up and running.  I bought 2 pairs of Sovtek 2A3 for backup and to use while I wait for BF to see who has KR for the deepest discount.  I also bought a near NOS quad of WE 417a and am awaiting adapters to be shipped.  I must admit the Sovtek's are not all that bad.  Maybe a little light on the top end but even that might go away when I get some hours on them.


----------



## joseph69

pippen99 said:


> Got the WA33 back up and running.


What did I miss here?


----------



## pippen99

I long ago sold off the stock tubes.  After it took 7 months to get a warranty replacement out of EML(JACMusic) I wanted nothing more to do with EML tubes.  I sold off both my 300B 2.5v and 2A3 Mesh quads and advertised for a used quad of KR HP 2A3 or whatever anybody had.  I got no offers so now I am waiting on BF to order the KRs somewhere.


----------



## joseph69

pippen99 said:


> I long ago sold off the stock tubes.  After it took 7 months to get a warranty replacement out of EML(JACMusic) I wanted nothing more to do with EML tubes.  I sold off both my 300B 2.5v and 2A3 Mesh quads and advertised for a used quad of KR HP 2A3 or whatever anybody had.  I got no offers so now I am waiting on BF to order the KRs somewhere.


I remember the story about the EML 300B, but didn't know you sold off all your EML tubes afterwards as well as your stock tubes long ago.


----------



## pippen99

I prefer to do without for a time than chance going through all that again.  Jac van de Walle can kiss my !@#$%^&*()_+.


----------



## joseph69

pippen99 said:


> I prefer to do without for a time than chance going through all that again.  Jac van de Walle can kiss my !@#$%^&*()_+.


Unfortunately, bad experience can and will leave a bad taste in your mouth.


----------



## ThanatosVI

joseph69 said:


> Unfortunately, bad experience can and will leave a bad taste in your mouth.


Yeah but the EML warranty fraud is a huge issue.

The sound quality is excellent,  the Service however is Borderline criminal


----------



## joseph69

ThanatosVI said:


> Yeah but the EML warranty fraud is a huge issue.
> 
> The sound quality is excellent,  the Service however is Borderline criminal


I've never had a bad experience with EML.
I once had a 2A3 go bad within +/- a month and George at TubesUSA was more than accommodating to send me a new matched pair.


----------



## ThanatosVI

joseph69 said:


> I've never had a bad experience with EML.
> I once had a 2A3 go bad within +/- a month and George at TubesUSA was more than accommodating to send me a new matched pair.


That's thanks to TubesUSAs great customer service then. 

Never heard about another EML warranty case that didn't go catastrophically.

Good to see that some didn't suffer tho


----------



## Roasty

I find the eml 300b 2.5v tubes very very good (when they work properly).. 

Anyways, decided to give the we417a driver tubes a shot.. Will report back once I get them.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Drewligarchy said:


> Before my full review of Wa33 Elite, as there hasn't been many comparisons with the SE - I am providing some early notes. I know I've been a bit abstract with the way I have discussed "emotion", but tried to explain the best I could.
> 
> - The Wa33 Elite's coolest trick is that it can be completely liquid, full and voluptuous while stilling being incredible vivid and transparent. Notes melt together. Euphony is off the charts good - but it's still quite accurate.
> - As a result, I completely understand why it's been described by some as a "feels" machine. In terms of emotional experience, music is visceral whereas many other forms of art (e.g. movies) are cerebral. What I mean by this is when you hear music, you directly feel an emotion. When you watch a movie, your brain parses the story which leads to an emotional response. The Wa33 Elite takes me closer to the emotional essence of the performance. It's presentation pushes those emotional buttons longer and harder as a result.
> ...




Thank you for sharing your thoughts on WA33 EE. We are asked often the sound difference of SE vs EE and it is difficult for us to answer but your description is spot on. WA33 SE is a lot of performance for the money but EE takes the listening enjoyment to a more emotional level.


----------



## TDinCali

I didn’t have such an visceral reaction when I finally received the EE JPS version over the SE. better? Yes. I’m using the KR tubes that I had on the SE. The biggest thing for me was the clarity. As crazy as that might sound, that’s what stood out the most. I had to recalibrate my brain a bit because at first I was questioning whether the amp was just brighter but that wasn’t it.


----------



## Drewligarchy

What should we listen to today, boys?


----------



## Drewligarchy

My Raymour and Flanigan motorized recliner is highly underrated. With independent controls for back, legs and - especially neck - you can dial in the Abyss for maximum comfort.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Drewligarchy said:


> What should we listen to today, boys?


LCD-4 on Wa33


----------



## Drewligarchy

Just gonna leave this here. Sick of my photos yet


----------



## ThanatosVI (Nov 10, 2021)

Drewligarchy said:


> Just gonna leave this here. Sick of my photos yet


Beautiful,  even in the wrong color 
I really like the woo Adapters, they take nothing away from the premium feel of the Wa33


----------



## SalR406

Drewligarchy said:


> Just gonna leave this here. Sick of my photos yet


That would be... "no".   Always fun to see photos.  Great shot of that amp.  (Hello from a fellow New Yorker.)


----------



## TDinCali

An adapter for every tube type? I haven’t seen that before. What tubes are you running?


----------



## pippen99

He has adapters for the WE 417a drivers in front.  The other tubes are KR Audio which uses white bases for its top tubes.


----------



## hawk13

Drewligarchy said:


> Just gonna leave this here. Sick of my photos yet


Gorgeous! I have the same stand in black/carbon fiber. Now just need the black WA33 is all  Seriously though, gorgeous.


----------



## Drewligarchy

ThanatosVI said:


> Beautiful,  even in the wrong color
> I really like the woo Adapters, they take nothing away from the premium feel of the Wa33



Haha. I have always liked silver, but black would be a lot easier to match. I wanted to get an Auralic Aries g.2 and reached out to Auralic Chief Xunqian Wang to see if I could get a special g.2 that was powdercoated. He said "We are like Naim now, we don't do that".


----------



## Drewligarchy (Nov 11, 2021)

pippen99 said:


> He has adapters for the WE 417a drivers in front.  The other tubes are KR Audio which uses white bases for its top tubes.



Incidentally, I really like the WE 417a's with the full set of KR tubes. I listened to the EH Gold pins (with the same KR tubes) at first for a week as they were new, I wanted to make sure they were all good, and wanted to see what differences I could detect between drivers. As many of you are aware, the KR tubes with the Elite are warm and lush with beautiful mids, and lots of slam and resolution. The WE 417a's added the last bit of clarity to the KR tubes, and are more extended on top and bottom - so you get the beautiful mids of the Wa33 Elite and KR, with just a dash of additional clarity mixed in - which I think is a perfect balance. This is all with the Abyss. The other main benefit I heard with the WE417a is a ridiculously deep soundstage. With Dave/Mscaler and Wa33 SE I though the sound stage was deep, but now Im hearing more depth a long with additional discrete layers between those sounds that are deepest in the sound stage and those that are closest.

I have the Tak 274b which I know a lot like with the KR tubes, and for my ears, it added too much treble with the Abyss specifically when combined with the KR tubes and either driver. I do use the Tak with the PSvane ACME 2a3s and the LCD-4 as that tube complement pairs best with that headphone, imo. Also, I know you had the Tak fail a month after your warranty - so I also have the USAF 596 which I used with the ACMEs to similar effect, in case the Tak doesn't last.


----------



## pippen99

Looking forward to trying the WE 417a out soon.  My adapters should be here in the next week.  I am waiting on BF to order the KRs since I could not find any used.


----------



## Drewligarchy

pippen99 said:


> Looking forward to trying the WE 417a out soon.  My adapters should be here in the next week.  I am waiting on BF to order the KRs since I could not find any used.



I am interested in how you like them with the LCD-5. I haven't heard it yet - and I'm interested in upgrading my LCD-4, but really like it's sound, so want to know what I'm getting and what I'm giving up.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Drewligarchy said:


> Haha. I have always liked silver, but black would be a lot easier to match. I wanted to get an Auralic Aries g.2 and reached out to Auralic Chief Xunqian Wang to see if I could get a special g.2 that was powdercoated. He said "We are like Naim now, we don't do that".


Yeah sad to hear that.
Sometimes small companies go the extra mile but stop when they become bigger.

I used to have a used Rockna Wavelight in silver. Bought it for 2500€.
After I managed to get all other components in black it started bothering me, so I reached out to my Dealer.
The plan was to send my unit to Rockna and they put the internals into a black chassis, charge 400€ and send it back to me. 

In reality I sent my unit in and they just shipped a completely new black Wavelight to me. No new invoice, no extended warranty, but a completely new Wavelight. 
Sure black is the other Standard color but it was still nice to get this treatment.
Including shipping I basically paid 3000€ for a brand new Wavelight. And ever since then my setup is classy Black from head to toe.

Even my Elite is an all black special edition.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I was tempted about those new tubes and adapters, so I pulled the trigger. I’m a bit skeptical, but we shall see. If it results in a better wa33 though, that a win


----------



## GPD1

Ciggavelli said:


> I was tempted about those new tubes and adapters, so I pulled the trigger. I’m a bit skeptical, but we shall see. If it results in a better wa33 though, that a win


Thinking about also purchasing so please post thoughts once you have had a listen


----------



## joseph69

Received the WE 417A/5842 drivers today...and the burn in begins.
PS: These adapter are solidly built with quite some weight to them


----------



## pippen99

Received my adapters today and installed the WE 417a tubes.  Just a short listen but I hear a greater precision and control to the presentation.  That is especially noted in the upper end where I thought the EH was a little loose and let a little glare peek through.  Now to get the KRs and should be back up to optimal sound.


----------



## Drewligarchy

pippen99 said:


> Received my adapters today and installed the WE 417a tubes.  Just a short listen but I hear a greater precision and control to the presentation.  That is especially noted in the upper end where I thought the EH was a little loose and let a little glare peek through.  Now to get the KRs and should be back up to optimal sound.



KRs and the WE417as are a great match


----------



## joseph69

Drewligarchy said:


> KRs and the WE417as are a great match


The KR 2A3 & KR 274B will be my next purchases for my WA33.



pippen99 said:


> Received my adapters today and installed the WE 417a tubes.


Did you purchase the adapters from Woo and source the 417A tubes elsewhere?


----------



## pippen99

joseph69 said:


> The KR 2A3 & KR 274B will be my next purchases for my WA33.
> 
> 
> Did you purchase the adapters from Woo and source the 417A tubes elsewhere?


The 417a were near NOS from a reliable Ebay seller.  The adapters came from @Deyan who is the go to guy on the @2359glenn thread.  His classified ad is here https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/custom-tube-socket-adapters.11214/.


----------



## Drewligarchy

ThanatosVI said:


> Yeah sad to hear that.
> Sometimes small companies go the extra mile but stop when they become bigger.
> 
> I used to have a used Rockna Wavelight in silver. Bought it for 2500€.
> ...



I didn't take it as just a size thing, but rather, a branding thing (at least that's what he said). Naim, I believe, only sells in black. Auralic was going for the same - and now that they have 30 different boxes you can buy - they didn't want a silver one out in the wild to where a picture could end up on the internet and they would have a bunch of requests. That's why I think it's actually a cost thing: that much cheaper to only have to make one color chassis - especially when multiple components you make fit in that chassis. It's a shame, because I like everything about that component - except the color - but something that big would stick out like a sore thumb. I ordered an Enleum 23r which only comes in black (didn't receive yet), and figure, stacked on my mScaler, it won't ruin the look because it's tiny. Maybe I'll do a full silver rack and a full black rack - as I'm running out of space


----------



## Drewligarchy

Ciggavelli said:


> I was tempted about those new tubes and adapters, so I pulled the trigger. I’m a bit skeptical, but we shall see. If it results in a better wa33 though, that a win



Cig - if you like the Tak with the KR tubes, I think you'll like what the WE417as do to the sound  If I had to summarize, you'll get more clarity and sound stage depth/width.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Nov 14, 2021)

Tube question: Before initially upgrading my tubes on my original Wa33, I read elsewhere (and not specific to the Wa33) that the rectifier makes no/little difference as it's not in the signal path. Now it may be amp dependent, but - at least with the Wa33 - I don't find that to be the case. I've tried the stock 5u4g, one of Joseph's NOS rectifier's (I'm forgetting which one), The USAF 596, the Tak 274B, and the KR 274B. I find the differences to the sound are rather dramatic. In other words, while I haven't tried it - I am sure I could pick out certain rectifiers blind, compared to others. Some would be hard like the USAF vs the Tak - because they do similar things. But if I'm comparing either of those to the KR or stock, I could pick it out.

Read something about the amount of voltage / B+ the rectifier provides - and voltage sag. Does anyone have a high-level understanding of what the rectifier does and why it can sound so different?


----------



## JLoud

I’ve read the same thing about rectifiers not making a difference. But just like you I can definitely hear a difference.


----------



## QuantumKat

I'm sitting in agony looking at the price difference between the SE and EE. I wanted someone to say the SE is fine enough, but here we are with the EE is a different level... 

Does the JPS wiring really take it even further with the EE or can I shave off some price there? 🙏


----------



## ThanatosVI

QuantumKat said:


> I'm sitting in agony looking at the price difference between the SE and EE. I wanted someone to say the SE is fine enough, but here we are with the EE is a different level...
> 
> Does the JPS wiring really take it even further with the EE or can I shave off some price there? 🙏


Well the SE is certainly fine enough and one of the very best available amplifiers. 

It's just thst the EE for a noteable price increase can still improve further


----------



## QuantumKat

ThanatosVI said:


> Well the SE is certainly fine enough and one of the very best available amplifiers.
> 
> It's just thst the EE for a noteable price increase can still improve further


Any thoughts on EE JPS vs. non-JPS. I've always been highly skeptical of wires and cables adding much. Always feels like snake oil to me. Maybe I'm wrong...


----------



## Drewligarchy (Nov 21, 2021)

QuantumKat said:


> Any thoughts on EE JPS vs. non-JPS. I've always been highly skeptical of wires and cables adding much. Always feels like snake oil to me. Maybe I'm wrong...



I think cables do make a difference, but the "regular" EE still uses single crystal copper throughout. For me, it's more of a tuning thing than anything else - and that's where I'd imagine the JPS-EE vs non-JPS EE to be different. That said, I haven't listened to the JPS EE, but have the EE and had the SE.

Maybe ask Woo their thoughts on the different signatures.


----------



## QuantumKat

Drewligarchy said:


> I think cables do make a difference, but the "regular" EE still uses single crystal copper throughout. For me, it's more of a tuning thing than anything else - and that's where I'd imagine the JPS-EE vs non-JPS EE to be different. That said, I haven't listened to the JPS EE, but have the EE and had the SE.
> 
> Maybe ask Woo their thoughts on the different signatures.


Which tubes do you recommend? I see the KR quad set is like $2.5k. Noticeable over the stock tubes?


----------



## Drewligarchy (Nov 21, 2021)

Yes. Especially with Abyss and Susvara. With warmer headphones like the LCD-4 I like the PSvane ACME 2a3s. The tubes make dramatic changes, especially with this amp. You’ll find a ton of recommendations on this thread and there are lots you can try.

That said - I enjoy the stock tubes as well. They certainly are not bad.


----------



## QuantumKat

Drewligarchy said:


> Yes. Especially with Abyss and Susvara. With warmer headphones like the LCD-4 I like the PSvane ACME 2a3s. The tubes make dramatic changes, especially with this amp. You’ll find a ton of recommendations on this thread and there are lots you can try.
> 
> That said - I enjoy the stock tubes as well. They certainly are not bad.


I use Sennheiser HD800s. They're allegedly more neutral, so I'm hoping a tube amp will bring some warmth in.


----------



## QuantumKat

Drewligarchy said:


> Yes. Especially with Abyss and Susvara. With warmer headphones like the LCD-4 I like the PSvane ACME 2a3s. The tubes make dramatic changes, especially with this amp. You’ll find a ton of recommendations on this thread and there are lots you can try.
> 
> That said - I enjoy the stock tubes as well. They certainly are not bad.


Which do you prefer between the Susvara and Abyss? I mainly listen to jazz, classical, and electronic. 

I wish I could find a place to loan/lend so I could compare lol


----------



## linshu1992

QuantumKat said:


> Which do you prefer between the Susvara and Abyss? I mainly listen to jazz, classical, and electronic.
> 
> I wish I could find a place to loan/lend so I could compare lol



No op but my personal take is Abyss excels at thundering bass with almost clinical details whereas Susvara has an overall softer presentation, but with more sweetness and emotion, and probably more "realness".

My preference:
Electronic - Abyss for excitement
Jazz - Susvara for instrumental sweetness
Classical - depends on what you want to get out of the music. If you're going for grandiose soundtracks like LOTR, I'll pick Abyss, but if you're going on quieter tracks I'll say Susvara


----------



## linshu1992

My rule of thumb: 
Drum, cello, anything where beats bring out the rhythm -> Abyss
Guitar, violin, vocal -> Susvara

I guess this is why these two headphones are commonly regarded as good complement of each other.


----------



## QuantumKat

This is extremely helpful. Thanks.

I think the reality is that I should probably own both. Go figure! 

That being said, I listen to far more jazz and classical than anything else. Maybe I should go Susvara then Abyss in order of priority. Expensive hobby!


----------



## Lucky87 (Nov 21, 2021)

QuantumKat said:


> This is extremely helpful. Thanks.
> 
> I think the reality is that I should probably own both. Go figure!
> 
> That being said, I listen to far more jazz and classical than anything else. Maybe I should go Susvara then Abyss in order of priority. Expensive hobby!Hi


Hi QuantumKat,

When I first received my WA33 EE I used the stock tubes which are great sounding after about the 100 hour mark everything starts to bloom and open up.
I would say the stock setup up is warm, detailed and great sounding.
I then bought the Tak 274B and added it to the setup and it made everything open up even more with more air to the over sound and still warm in sound.
Then I added all KR HP Tubes along with the  Electro Harmonix 6C45Pi Gold-pin Tube which made everything way more focused, accurate, with better separations within the music.  I would say this setup is more neutral sounding then the stock or with Tak 274B setup.
My next purchase will be the 417A upgrade soon..

I would contact Woo and explain what sound signature you want. I had the HD800/HD800S with the Violectric Amp which sounded really warm and engaging. If you want to improve with that maybe a  WA5-LE 2nd Gen with the 300B might be up your alley. If you are located in Northern California I know Audio Vision in San Francisco has Woo Audio gear to try out, but I think they might charge a listening fee.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Nov 22, 2021)

QuantumKat said:


> Which do you prefer between the Susvara and Abyss? I mainly listen to jazz, classical, and electronic.
> 
> I wish I could find a place to loan/lend so I could compare lol



I think the Susvara is a great headphone, but I prefer the Abyss overall and it gets most of my listening. I also think the Wa33 significantly improves the mids on the Abyss, while retaining it's other characteristics that set it apart from other headphones: Sound stage, Speaker like presentation, detail, imaging, tactility and thundering bass. In my opinion, if I could only keep one - it would undoubtedly be the Abyss - and I listen to all the genres you do. With Jazz and Electronic it's no contest. With classical, Abyss vs Susvara is a toss up, IMO. I also listen to alot of classical and prog rock - and I've said this before - Abyss is the rock headphone.

Also - check The Cable Company. They have a headphone lending library, They will loan you headphones for a reasonable fee, and apply it to the price of the headphone if you buy. I demoed the Abyss from there. I think they have the Susvara as well.


----------



## QuantumKat

Drewligarchy said:


> I think the Susvara is a great headphone, but I prefer the Abyss overall and it gets most of my listening. I also think the Wa33 significantly improves the mids on the Abyss, while retaining it's other characteristics that set it apart from other headphones: Sound stage, Speaker like presentation, detail, imaging, tactility and thundering bass. In my opinion, if I could only keep one - it would undoubtedly be the Abyss - and I listen to all the genres you do. With Jazz and Electronic it's no contest. With classical, Abyss vs Susvara is a toss up, IMO. I also listen to alot of classical and prog rock - and I've said this before - Abyss is the rock headphone.
> 
> Also - check The Cable Company. They have a headphone lending library, They will loan you headphones for a reasonable fee, and apply it to the price of the headphone if you buy. I demoed the Abyss from there. I think they have the Susvara as well.


Thanks so much for this insight!

It seems to me that the HD800s may be more similar to the Susvara in its strengths relative to the Abyss.

I need to test the Abyss. I think what I'll do is figure out which Woo amp to get by contacting them as suggested. Once that's sorted, I'll try to demo the Abyss first. 

Wonderful 👍


----------



## QuantumKat

Lucky87 said:


> Hi QuantumKat,
> 
> When I first received my WA33 EE I used the stock tubes which are great sounding after about the 100 hour mark everything starts to bloom and open up.
> I would say the stock setup up is warm, detailed and great sounding.
> ...


This is massively helpful. Sounds like if my plan is to "warm" my HD800s then the stock or Tak setup is ideal. I suppose my remaining question will be if I have to go all the way to the WA33 EE or I could be fine with something a little cheaper 😂


----------



## joseph69

ThanatosVI said:


> Well the SE is certainly fine enough and one of the very best available amplifiers.


+1 Absolutely nothing wrong with the Standard Edition WA33. This is the second one I've owned (made the mistake of selling my original) and I could've bought another version but I chose to buy what I previously owned being it sounded so good and spend the savings on tube upgrades instead.


Drewligarchy said:


> That said - I enjoy the stock tubes as well. They certainly are not bad.


Agreed.
I bought my WA33 based on listening to it with the stock tubes.


QuantumKat said:


> I wish I could find a place to loan/lend so I could compare lol


You can demo both, the Susvara & 1266 from The Cable Company.


----------



## joseph69

QuantumKat said:


> I suppose my remaining question will be if I have to go all the way to the WA33 EE or I could be fine with something a little cheaper 😂


"Something a little cheaper". 
None of their versions are "cheap" less expensive would be more like it.
If you feel the need to have something more expensive than the Standard Edition then do so, but again, you will not be disappointed with the SE in any way, shape or form.


----------



## buson160man

geraldshanghai said:


> Gosh, I just bought WA5LE, then there comes WA33.... the road to perfect headphone sound is cash-sucking.


You got that right I just bought a Sonnett morpheus dac and a schiit Yaggy Og dac . The morpheus is pretty special I am warming up the Schiit yaggy og at present.


----------



## Roasty

Just received the we417a tubes.. But can't try them yet as still waiting on the adaptors. 

Had no idea these tubes were so small. Man.. These little glass and metal things cost so much.. I can't help but feel (a bit) silly.


----------



## Benny-x

Roasty said:


> Just received the we417a tubes.. But can't try them yet as still waiting on the adaptors.
> 
> Had no idea these tubes were so small. Man.. These little glass and metal things cost so much.. I can't help but feel (a bit) silly.


What do they go for and what year are they?


----------



## joseph69

Roasty said:


> These little glass and metal things cost so much.. I can't help but feel (a bit) silly.


I agree.
We all know that we're never going to get the price performance ratio from upgrades, but the WE's + adapters are a bit over the top in this regard. With that being said, I am enjoying what I'm hearing so far from the WE drivers, though.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Roasty said:


> Just received the we417a tubes.. But can't try them yet as still waiting on the adaptors.
> 
> Had no idea these tubes were so small. Man.. These little glass and metal things cost so much.. I can't help but feel (a bit) silly.


I have my tubes too, and I'm also waiting on the adaptors.  I emailed Woo Audio about it, and they said it takes a long time to individually solder them (because they're so small), and I'm assuming they have a backlog.  I'm hoping to get my adaptors this week, but it's a holiday in the US, so I dunno


----------



## QuantumKat

Once again, does anyone know if a Matrix elementX has enough power to drive these Abyss 1266s? It'd be nice to use a DAC + solid state solution until I get a WA33, but if it doesn't work at all... kind of pointless!


----------



## Ciggavelli (Nov 23, 2021)

QuantumKat said:


> Once again, does anyone know if a Matrix elementX has enough power to drive these Abyss 1266s? It'd be nice to use a DAC + solid state solution until I get a WA33, but if it doesn't work at all... kind of pointless!


Well, it's: 1700mW @33ohm (XLR4/Dual XLR3), so possibly.  However, I think ideally, you would want a bit more power


----------



## QuantumKat

Ciggavelli said:


> Well, it's: 1700mW @33ohm (XLR4/Dual XLR3), so possibly.  However, I think ideally, you would want a bit more power


Any particular threshold? The formula S/powerman thing looks so ugly and clunky, I'm having a hard time succumbing to it. Might just wait for a WA33 for everything I guess? 

I also have Senn HD800s. Was planning to drive those too. I see you have Susvaras, 1266s, and the HD800s. What's your take on similarities and differences? I mainly listen to jazz, classical, and electronic.

I'm looking to upgrade my headphone setup for Christmas. The Matrix elementX was my plan for a DAC. The WA33 JPS was my plan for a tube amp. Dunno tho... Apparently the Topping D90se measures just as well as the elementX, but I don't see Summit-Fi folks taking anything by Topping seriously lol


----------



## Ciggavelli

QuantumKat said:


> Any particular threshold? The formula S/powerman thing looks so ugly and clunky, I'm having a hard time succumbing to it. Might just wait for a WA33 for everything I guess?
> 
> I also have Senn HD800s. Was planning to drive those too. I see you have Susvaras, 1266s, and the HD800s. What's your take on similarities and differences? I mainly listen to jazz, classical, and electronic.
> 
> I'm looking to upgrade my headphone setup for Christmas. The Matrix elementX was my plan for a DAC. The WA33 JPS was my plan for a tube amp. Dunno tho... Apparently the Topping D90se measures just as well as the elementX, but I don't see Summit-Fi folks taking anything by Topping seriously lol


I would recommend the Chord Hugo TT2, using the XLR outputs on the back, for a solid state option.  

I think the Susvaras are very pleasant sounding, has great imagining, and is the most forgiving for poorly mastered recordings (Black Metal is a good example).  The TCs are amazing with EDM, Hip-Hop and Metal.  They are my favorite headphones.  The bass is crazy.  The 800S has a crazy soundstage, and I like to use it as my neutral headphones.  The TCs and Susvaras are much better though


----------



## QuantumKat

Ciggavelli said:


> I would recommend the Chord Hugo TT2, using the XLR outputs on the back, for a solid state option.
> 
> I think the Susvaras are very pleasant sounding, has great imagining, and is the most forgiving for poorly mastered recordings (Black Metal is a good example).  The TCs are amazing with EDM, Hip-Hop and Metal.  They are my favorite headphones.  The bass is crazy.  The 800S has a crazy soundstage, and I like to use it as my neutral headphones.  The TCs and Susvaras are much better though


Got it.

So the Susvaras may be better for Jazz and Classical while the TCs are better for EDM, etc.?

Do you prefer solid state over your WA33 tubes? Certainly if I just went solid state it'd be cheaper than the WA33 JPS I have my eye on. Part of me thinks I'd enjoy the tube, especially with the more neutral Senns. Might make them a little a warmer. Maybe a perfect balance for them.


----------



## Ciggavelli

QuantumKat said:


> Got it.
> 
> So the Susvaras may be better for Jazz and Classical while the TCs are better for EDM, etc.?
> 
> Do you prefer solid state over your WA33 tubes? Certainly if I just went solid state it'd be cheaper than the WA33 JPS I have my eye on. Part of me thinks I'd enjoy the tube, especially with the more neutral Senns. Might make them a little a warmer. Maybe a perfect balance for them.


I know a few folks love classical out of the TCs, so I think either would be good.  If you want a laid back sound, go with the Susvaras.  If you want bass and more in your face sound, go with the TCs.  Both do resolution, soundstage, and imaging very well.

I like my WA33 EE JPS a lot!  It's my favorite component in my chain.  I previously had the standard WA33, and loved it so much, I upgraded to the Elite. The soundstage and holographic nature of the WA33 is just amazing.  I like to "see" my sounds, so I'm big into imaging and soundstage.  Also, the bass is really great out of the WA33 (I'm also a big basshead).  I think you might get additional bass with a solid-state though. 

Here's something you can look into.  A bunch of people have bought the CFA3, a custom solid state that costs $3K.  I've never heard it, but several posters on here, whose opinions I value, love the CFA3.  There's a thread on here somewhere where you can email the guy who makes them and he'll do the build for you.  I don't really know how that works, but I'm sure you could find some quick info with a search


----------



## QuantumKat

CFA3 might be the move.

That said, I'm not totally opposed to the Hugo. I suppose, I'm just wondering what the lateral options are there. Chord's aesthetic gives me pause, haha!


----------



## jlbrach

QuantumKat said:


> Any particular threshold? The formula S/powerman thing looks so ugly and clunky, I'm having a hard time succumbing to it. Might just wait for a WA33 for everything I guess?
> 
> I also have Senn HD800s. Was planning to drive those too. I see you have Susvaras, 1266s, and the HD800s. What's your take on similarities and differences? I mainly listen to jazz, classical, and electronic.
> 
> I'm looking to upgrade my headphone setup for Christmas. The Matrix elementX was my plan for a DAC. The WA33 JPS was my plan for a tube amp. Dunno tho... Apparently the Topping D90se measures just as well as the elementX, but I don't see Summit-Fi folks taking anything by Topping seriously lol


actually I think the combo is quite nice looking...


----------



## Lucky87 (Dec 28, 2021)

QuantumKat said:


> CFA3 might be the move.
> 
> That said, I'm not totally opposed to the Hugo. I suppose, I'm just wondering what the lateral options are there. Chord's aesthetic gives me pause, haha!


If you decide on the WA33 SE/EE version you should have multiple directions to go with headphones. Also if you are interested in a good deal right now Adorama is selling the Hifiman HE6 SE V2 right now normal price $1700 now with free shipping $575 which is a steal.
Just received mine a couple of hours ago and they sound great and I like them better than my recent sold Hifiman Arya‘s which had a V-shape sound stage vs the HE6 SE more wider.  Pretty impressed with them for this price but like the Susvara’s require decent power to make them shine. Which is another benefit of the WA33 never have to worry about power with any headphone and customize the sound based on tube preference.


----------



## QuantumKat

Yeah I think I've made my mind up about the tube amp. I'm likely going WA33 JPS (SE). I'm not all that convinced that the EE will be all that much more of an ugprade over the SE with JPS. Also, the people at Abyss seem to be pretty skeptical about the WA33 EE even with the JPS. 

Going forward then my concerns will be about Susvara vs Abyss and what sort of DAC I need. At the moment I'm thinking I'll go Abyss 1266 TC because the Susvara seems more similar to the Senn 800s than the Abyss, which could give me a different take (e.g. more bass, faster driver, etc.). I'm still lost on the DAC situation. I was targeting the Matrix element X, but the Summit-Fi crowd seem obsessed with Chord. Dunno!


----------



## Roasty

Benny-x said:


> What do they go for and what year are they?



To be honest, I don't know what year they are. All I know is, tubedepot has a whole bunch of them (last they told me was about 30 pieces, and u can see the price on their website), and they were willing to help test and quad match for me.


----------



## Darkliner (Nov 23, 2021)

QuantumKat said:


> Yeah I think I've made my mind up about the tube amp. I'm likely going WA33 JPS (SE). I'm not all that convinced that the EE will be all that much more of an ugprade over the SE with JPS. Also, the people at Abyss seem to be pretty skeptical about the WA33 EE even with the JPS.
> 
> Going forward then my concerns will be about Susvara vs Abyss and what sort of DAC I need. At the moment I'm thinking I'll go Abyss 1266 TC because the Susvara seems more similar to the Senn 800s than the Abyss, which could give me a different take (e.g. more bass, faster driver, etc.). I'm still lost on the DAC situation. I was targeting the Matrix element X, but the Summit-Fi crowd seem obsessed with Chord. Dunno!


There are other dac options out there. Are you able to audition other brands? For me, personally i would go out there and audition as many dac/amps as possible. Let your ears decide what sounds good.


----------



## QuantumKat

Darkliner said:


> There are other dac options out there. Are you able to audition other brands? For me, personally i would go out there and audition as many dac/amps as possible. Let your ears decide what sounds good.


The only place I see in the U.S. that I could audition with is The Cable Company. Any other places?

Also, eager to hear any other DAC recommendations to go with this amp.


----------



## timeslip

Darkliner said:


> There are other dac options out there. Are you able to audition other brands? For me, personally i would go out there and audition as many dac/amps as possible. Let your ears decide what sounds good.


Holo May and forget about Chord.  I got rid of my Dave earlier this year.


----------



## Ciggavelli

timeslip said:


> Holo May and forget about Chord.  I got rid of my Dave earlier this year.


I think it’s a preference thing though. I’ve heard other posters say the opposite. But, compared to the mDAVE it’s a good deal. So, it does have less of an upfront cost, and I’m assuming resale isn’t terrible, but I don’t know. 

Is it easy to audition the Holo May?  I know the DAVE is pretty easy to audition, given its ubiquity. Comparing both on one’s own chain is probably the best way to determine preferences.


----------



## atya35mm

QuantumKat said:


> The only place I see in the U.S. that I could audition with is The Cable Company. Any other places?
> 
> Also, eager to hear any other DAC recommendations to go with this amp.


My experience is best to buy used and negotiate on price. That way you can trial it out for as long as you like, and sell it and try something else with minimal loss, seeing as Chord / Holo are popular products and shouldn't have difficulty selling.


----------



## linshu1992

QuantumKat said:


> The only place I see in the U.S. that I could audition with is The Cable Company. Any other places?
> 
> Also, eager to hear any other DAC recommendations to go with this amp.


If you are near LA area, Source AV has a huge show room with all sorts of great gear to demo. I had the pleasure to visit earlier this year after canjam and had a the entire room to myself for a few hours. Such a blast.

They do not carry Hifiman or Abyss headphones though. They have pretty much everything else: Woo Audio, Chord, and pretty much every other headphone brands.


----------



## ThanatosVI

I also recommend Rockna DACs.
Personally I use the Wavelight. 
The Wavedream is also very well received


----------



## SalR406

linshu1992 said:


> If you are near LA area, Source AV has a huge show room with all sorts of great gear to demo. I had the pleasure to visit earlier this year after canjam and had a the entire room to myself for a few hours. Such a blast.
> 
> They do not carry Hifiman or Abyss headphones though. They have pretty much everything else: Woo Audio, Chord, and pretty much every other headphone brands.


Wow, that's impressive.  Too bad I'm on the opposite coast.  I'll have to remember TSAV next time I'm in California.


----------



## MasonStorm

I was hoping Woo would have their WA33 on sale for about 10% off for Black Friday, but so far no go.  It remains just a little too far out of reach $$$$$ for now.


----------



## joseph69

MasonStorm said:


> I was hoping Woo would have their WA33 on sale for about 10% off for Black Friday, but so far no go.  It remains just a little too far out of reach $$$$$ for now.


At one time the WA33 used to be on sale but I forget the discount, I'm pretty sure it was on sale for $6500.00.
I do see they items on sale, but the WA33 is such a fine sounding, good (probably great) selling amplifier I'd say there's no reason to offer it at a sale price.


----------



## ThanatosVI (Nov 26, 2021)

joseph69 said:


> At one time the WA33 used to be on sale but I forget the discount, I'm pretty sure it was on sale for $6500.00.
> I do see they items on sale, but the WA33 is such a fine sounding, good (probably great) selling amplifier I'd say there's no reason to offer it at a sale price.


I hope it won't go on sale anytime soon.
6500$(5750€ + fees) is hard to pass.


----------



## JLoud

I would imagine with the cost of parts going up, it is a challenge to hold the price point already. Makes resale value hold up well though.


----------



## arftech

Maybe one day I can buy a W33.  Why am I even reading this damn thread?😂


----------



## ThanatosVI

JLoud said:


> I would imagine with the cost of parts going up, it is a challenge to hold the price point already. Makes resale value hold up well though.


True, we can be glad that the price for US didn't increase 

My Octave costs 1k more than last year.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Quick question:

Anyone know if these adapter are safe to use with the preamp outputs of the Wa33?

https://www.moon-audio.com/cardas-r...Bd9ZScfAl8tcfCVptiOurj7s6RTzjxKcaAilXEALw_wcB

I "think" pin 3 is lifted. I bought these a long time ago when I had an auralic vega and it needed a certain type of adapter for the XLR outs to convert to RCA. It worked fine with that. 

Not sure if it matter or not, I just don't want to risk damaging my Wa33.


----------



## pippen99

I have been unable to locate a used quad of anything much less the KR 2A3 HP anywhere to replace my unlamented EML quads.  I had hoped that somewhere somebody would have a storewide discount for BF but apparently that does not happen for tubes(thanks Woo).  So I need a little advice and opinions.

My choices: 1) Bite the bullet and pay full price for the KR HP tubes.  No one talks about the standard KRs so don't know if they are a viable option.  I am feeling the shadow of diminishing returns as they are just godawful expensive.  $2590

                    2) RCA 2A3 I know where I can get a quad of NOS Black Plate Amplitrex tested with matching 1951 dates for $900-1000.  The seller has perfect feedback and offers 30 day returns.

                    3) Psvane ACME 2A3 $1100-$1200 People seem to like them but have concerns about reliability

                    4)  Sophia Electric There has been some talk on here about the Sophia rectifiers but none about the power tubes.  I really liked the Sophia Princess 300B I had in my WA5.  Sophia offers a 2A3 Mesh for $900.  Sophia also offers 3 different models of 300B 2.5v from $900-$1500.

Any thoughts or alternatives are welcome.  Hope you all had a great Thanksgiving!


----------



## Drewligarchy

pippen99 said:


> I have been unable to locate a used quad of anything much less the KR 2A3 HP anywhere to replace my unlamented EML quads.  I had hoped that somewhere somebody would have a storewide discount for BF but apparently that does not happen for tubes(thanks Woo).  So I need a little advice and opinions.
> 
> My choices: 1) Bite the bullet and pay full price for the KR HP tubes.  No one talks about the standard KRs so don't know if they are a viable option.  I am feeling the shadow of diminishing returns as they are just godawful expensive.  $2590
> 
> ...



I can only speak to the KR HPs and Psvane ACME 2A3 as those are the ones I have.

The ACME 2A3 works really well with the LCD-4. I think the KRs with the LCD-4 are too much of a good thing, but that's just in my opinion. I haven't tried the LCD-5, but from what I've read, it's brighter than the LCD-4 - so unsure what to recommend - but you have, so you can make a better judgement. I haven't had any reliability issue with the PSVane but it depends on the sound your after - a bit more energy (ACME), or a bit more bloom (KR). Also, from what I've read the RCAs might provide a nice balance - but I have never heard them.


----------



## joseph69

pippen99 said:


> 4) Sophia Electric There has been some talk on here about the Sophia rectifiers but none about the power tubes. I really liked the Sophia Princess 300B I had in my WA5. Sophia offers a 2A3 Mesh for $900. Sophia also offers 3 different models of 300B 2.5v from $900-$1500.


I had no idea that SE offered the 2A3 or 300B 2.5v.


----------



## GPD1

pippen99 said:


> I have been unable to locate a used quad of anything much less the KR 2A3 HP anywhere to replace my unlamented EML quads.  I had hoped that somewhere somebody would have a storewide discount for BF but apparently that does not happen for tubes(thanks Woo).  So I need a little advice and opinions.
> 
> My choices: 1) Bite the bullet and pay full price for the KR HP tubes.  No one talks about the standard KRs so don't know if they are a viable option.  I am feeling the shadow of diminishing returns as they are just godawful expensive.  $2590
> 
> ...


Just ordered the KR 2A3 HP from tube amp doctor at a decent discount due to the VAT not being charged as I live in HK. (They did incorrectly send the non HP version but that has been sorted and the HP are on the way )


----------



## joseph69

I've accumulated a good amount of hours on my WE 417A drivers and I know I mentioned previously that their price point with Woo adapters was high and of course it's still not a dollar for dollar, improvement (but what is?) but I will say that I'm enjoying them immensely with my EML 2A3 S power tubes and UE 596 rectifier.

In short, they make a nice difference in the entire spectrum, literally.
Instrument separation, placement, height, depth, bass impact and fullness, black background and detail retrieval and musicality are all brought to light very, very nicely. If you're considering the upgrade, do it, you won't be disappointed, at all.

PS: The WE 417A's can be a little noisy both, ambient as well as through the headphones drivers
at times, and sometimes they're dead silent (w/Utopia...havent listened to another headphone yet) but once you turn up the volume there is no trace of noise from the tubes to distract you from the music. I've also noticed they're getting more quiet with more burn in.


----------



## pippen99

I was going to do that but I waited to see if a domestic seller would have a BF discount.  Two days ago the HP was marked as unavailable on their website. I have checked twice today and was still unavailable.


----------



## GPD1

pippen99 said:


> I was going to do that but I waited to see if a domestic seller would have a BF discount.  Two days ago the HP was marked as unavailable on their website. I have checked twice today and was still unavailable.


Yeah that’s strange. i just checked and not seeing it at all. I know it was apparently just for sale in the US only.


----------



## pippen99

joseph69 said:


> I've accumulated a good amount of hours on my WE 417A drivers and I know I mentioned previously that their price point with Woo adapters was high and of course it's still not a dollar for dollar, improvement (but what is?) but I will say that I'm enjoying them immensely with my EML 2A3 S power tubes and UE 596 rectifier.
> 
> In short, they make a nice difference in the entire spectrum, literally.
> Instrument separation, placement, height, depth, bass impact and fullness, black background and detail retrieval and musicality are all brought to light very, very nicely. If you're considering the upgrade, do it, you won't be disappointed, at all.


I could not justify that kind of money but I did want to try these.  I bought my adapters from @Deyan and got some matching date near NOS WE 417A from a reputable seller. I spent about a sixth of what Woo wanted so unless those things were dipped in Unicorn tears I am good.  I hear the same things you hear.


----------



## joseph69

pippen99 said:


> *I spent about a sixth of what Woo wanted so unless those things were dipped in Unicorn tears I am good.  I hear the same things you hear.*


Never said they were, and never said you weren't, nor did I mention what I'm hearing due to their cost. 
I was just expressing my liking for the tubes after some better burn in from the time I receiving them.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Dec 2, 2021)

OT post:

Now that my system is nearing completion (or as I lie to myself about it), I finally bit the bullet and ordered a high-end transport/streamer to replace the Auralic Aries Femto / Matrix XSPDIF 2 I had been using for quite some time. A Lumin U1. No Auralic Aries G2.1 as the Lumin has been reviewed as playing warmer, it's silver and has true BNC outputs for my Chord DACs. As an aside, I absolutely love the Lumin U1. It somehow sounds better, but it's just so damn stable and operates like a real high-end transport. Anyhow, now that I've accumulated great sounding and nice looking components, I'm trying to upgrade my rack from the good value but inexpensive Pangea Vulcan stand. I also have a matching Pangea Vulcan Amp stand that my PS Audio Powerplant P12 is on (but isn't yet, right now it's just sitting on a glass shelf on the floor, temporarily.)

Looking for something high quality, and not insanely expensive (Nothing over 2-3k), ideally with glass shelves, and perhaps in black or a dark wood. Something that would set off the silver components well. As you can see my components are almost all silver, except for the Enleum Amp 23r and the Opto DX, but I've made it work as best as I can. PErhaps I get a small inexpensive glass laptop shelf or something that allows me to separate the Enleum amp and M Scaler - because the Enleum amp does get hot.

At this point I'm just focusing on aesthetics to make it as nice looking as possible. I already have all the gear that I want at the moment. Maybe a new headphone somewhere along the line.

I would like a 4 shelfer and accompanying amp stand or something similar as I like the height both ergonomically and because its the same height as my glass headphone table not pictured to the left. Any recommendations are much appreciated.


----------



## ThanatosVI (Dec 2, 2021)

Drewligarchy said:


> OT post:
> 
> Now that my system is nearing completion (or as I lie to myself about it), I finally bit the bullet and ordered a high-end transport/streamer to replace the Auralic Aries Femto / Matrix XSPDIF 2 I had been using for quite some time. A Lumin U1. No Auralic Aries G2.1 as the Lumin has been reviewed as playing warmer, it's silver and has true BNC outputs for my Chord DACs. As an aside, I absolutely love the Lumin U1. It somehow sounds better, but it's just so damn stable and operates like a real high-end transport. Anyhow, now that I've accumulated great sounding and nice looking components, I'm trying to upgrade my rack from the good value but inexpensive Pangea Vulcan stand. I also have a matching Pangea Vulcan Amp stand that my PS Audio Powerplant P12 is on (but isn't yet, right now it's just sitting on a glass shelf on the floor, temporarily.)
> 
> ...


Always love to see posts about Systems nearing completion.

I like to think that my own reaches this Status soon as well. Similar to you I want a streamer upgrade and wait for the ever postponed Wavelight Server.

This week I had the chance to grab a used T+A MP2000R,  fitting to my PA2000R,  but ultimately decided against it and will wait for the Wavelight Server.
After the Server I'd like to think of my system as endgame and complete.
From then onwards only considering new releases as changes.

Thanks for brining that Vulcan rack to my attention,  looks nice unfortunately not available in my country at the moment.

I still don't have any rack and use Ikea Kallax righr now.

Only readily available and affordable rack I know is the Monoprice XL.

Aesthetically among my favourites is the Naim Fraim


----------



## pippen99

+1 on the Lumin U1.  I had one for several years.  It is a very nice piece.  The Lumin App was much more stable than the Auralic App.  Where are you hiding the power supply?  I have much the same setup using a Vulcan X stand for my Dac and amps and a Vulcan amp stand for my Stellar P3 regenerator.  The Vulcan stands are a good value and does the job for me.  My system is in my bedroom and not on public display so I do not feel the need to upgrade.  Good luck with your search!


----------



## Drewligarchy

pippen99 said:


> +1 on the Lumin U1.  I had one for several years.  It is a very nice piece.  The Lumin App was much more stable than the Auralic App.  Where are you hiding the power supply?  I have much the same setup using a Vulcan X stand for my Dac and amps and a Vulcan amp stand for my Stellar P3 regenerator.  The Vulcan stands are a good value and does the job for me.  My system is in my bedroom and not on public display so I do not feel the need to upgrade.  Good luck with your search!



Thanks! Power supply is under the bottom shelf of the stand with my uptone 1.2.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Drewligarchy said:


> OT post:
> 
> Now that my system is nearing completion (or as I lie to myself about it), I finally bit the bullet and ordered a high-end transport/streamer to replace the Auralic Aries Femto / Matrix XSPDIF 2 I had been using for quite some time. A Lumin U1. No Auralic Aries G2.1 as the Lumin has been reviewed as playing warmer, it's silver and has true BNC outputs for my Chord DACs. As an aside, I absolutely love the Lumin U1. It somehow sounds better, but it's just so damn stable and operates like a real high-end transport. Anyhow, now that I've accumulated great sounding and nice looking components, I'm trying to upgrade my rack from the good value but inexpensive Pangea Vulcan stand. I also have a matching Pangea Vulcan Amp stand that my PS Audio Powerplant P12 is on (but isn't yet, right now it's just sitting on a glass shelf on the floor, temporarily.)
> 
> ...


I'm going to be a bad influence, but have you considered the Sean Jacobs DC4 for your DAVE and M-Scaler?  It's black though, but maybe they could change the color of the case for you.  It really does make everything sound better (albeit at a cost)


----------



## Drewligarchy

ThanatosVI said:


> Always love to see posts about Systems nearing completion.
> 
> I like to think that my own reaches this Status soon as well. Similar to you I want a streamer upgrade and wait for the ever postponed Wavelight Server.
> 
> ...



Pangea is a house brand of the online retailer Audio Advisor which does ship internationally. Though certain countries may be excluded. Did you check out the site to see if they'd ship to you?


----------



## Drewligarchy

Ciggavelli said:


> I'm going to be a bad influence, but have you considered the Sean Jacobs DC4 for your DAVE and M-Scaler?  It's black though, but maybe they could change the color of the case for you.  It really does make everything sound better (albeit at a cost)



Yes, Cig. That's the one I still have the itch for. How long can you make the cord connecting the DC4? If I did it, I'd probably get a second rack and put them right next to eachother - so I'd have one with black components and one with silver components - if It would work. Half of me wants to keep the Dave stock, and the other half says to go for it.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Drewligarchy said:


> Pangea is a house brand of the online retailer Audio Advisor which does ship internationally. Though certain countries may be excluded. Did you check out the site to see if they'd ship to you?


I checked after reading your post.
Generally they would ship to my country,  however the website doesn't specify shipment costs. I'd have to inquire via mail to see if it's worth it


----------



## Ciggavelli

Drewligarchy said:


> Yes, Cig. That's the one I still have the itch for. How long can you make the cord connecting the DC4? If I did it, I'd probably get a second rack and put them right next to eachother - so I'd have one with black components and one with silver components - if It would work. Half of me wants to keep the Dave stock, and the other half says to go for it.


I think you could ask SJ to make the cord any length you want.  It's a great upgrade!


----------



## Roasty (Dec 9, 2021)

Received the tube adaptors in the mail today. They're well made, feel solid, and do the job. The Woo ones definitely look better. Will let u see for yourself..






With the we417a tubes in, feels kind of like candles on a birthday cake LOL.





Anyways, first impressions are I like them. Seem to shift the whole FR to the left, with more low end and mids. And at the same time, they have smoothened the top end a fair bit. It is not as jarring as the upgrade 6c45p drivers, especially with the Abyss which can occasionally be a bit piercing with certain songs. Front back depth is a lot better IMO.

I have some issues with the tubes though. With volume knob at zero, I get a loud hum from the R channel (have not swapped tubes position yet), but if I raise the knob up past 8 o'clock, the hum goes away and it is silent. Not sure why this is happening.

*edit
Turns out it may not be the tubes, but the adaptors.. Tried swapping around tubes, but the hum seems to follow one of the adaptors instead.
*edit2
Deyan is going to send me another adaptor. Grateful for the quick response.


----------



## Darkliner (Dec 9, 2021)

I just received my wa33 jps elite amp today, All I can say the emotional enjoyment of the music has greatly increased over the standard edition.  Unfortunately, one of my kr 2a3s died upon the amp change and I went back to using the stock electric harmonix 2a3.  Despite this, the sound is still in every way an upgrade over the standard edition.  Bass is deeper, vocals have a better feels factor and resolution, instruments are more 3d. Overall, I am extremely happy with the upgrade.


----------



## QuantumKat

Darkliner said:


> I just received my wa33 jps elite amp today, All I can say the emotional enjoyment of the music has greatly increased over the standard edition.  Unfortunately, one of my kr 2a3s died upon the amp change and I went back to using the stock electric harmonix 2a3.  Despite this, the sound is still in every way an upgrade over the standard edition.  Bass is deeper, vocals have a better feels factor and resolution, instruments are more 3d. Overall, I am extremely happy with the upgrade.


Really worth the extra 8-9k? Hmmm... 🤔


----------



## QuantumKat

Roasty said:


> Received the tube adaptors in the mail today. They're well made, feel solid, and do the job. The Woo ones definitely look better. Will let u see for yourself..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How's the Holo vs the Tambaqui 👀


----------



## Roasty

QuantumKat said:


> How's the Holo vs the Tambaqui 👀



Long story short, I prefer the Holo.. 
Will write down more when I have the chance.


----------



## Darkliner (Dec 9, 2021)

QuantumKat said:


> Really worth the extra 8-9k? Hmmm... 🤔


From first impressions, I would say sure. Diminishing returns surely apply here.  But with anything in high end audio we are chasing that last few percent. Its really hard to quantify certain cost to performance increases at this level. 😎


----------



## pippen99

I too had an issue with my adapters and tubes.  I had static in one channel.  Somehow in attempting to diagnose adapter or tube I hit the right combination of adapter, tube and socket and no more noise.  I finally have my WA33 sorted out.  I have my DHC Prion4s interconnects.  I have the WE 417A drivers(a very nice upgrade).  I could not justify the huge cash outlay for the KR 2A3 HP tubes.  I was able to locate a quad of RCA 2A3 Black Plates NIB from 1951.  I have only 30 hours on the tubes but I am impressed.  I have a NIB USAF 596 en route as a quality backup for the Tak 274B.  I got my Prion4 back from repair and hooked up to my LCD-5.  Life is good. 

Now if I can just get the image of @Ciggavelli's WA33 Elite next to his 3ES Elite out of my head I am really good!


----------



## QuantumKat

Roasty said:


> Long story short, I prefer the Holo..
> Will write down more when I have the chance.


Awesome.

Mind telling me what settings you're using on your May in the meantime?


----------



## Roasty

QuantumKat said:


> Awesome.
> 
> Mind telling me what settings you're using on your May in the meantime?



Mostly non upsampled music and NOS mode. Sent via Logitech Media Server/Squeezelite player rather. 

But recently am starting to enjoy HQP with Poly-sinc-short-xtr-mp-2s, asdm7ecV2, Dsd256. Very pleasant, non fatiguing, warm sounding filter with really awesome bass.


----------



## avgonzalez77

Oh man that's pretty!


----------



## QuantumKat

Roasty said:


> Mostly non upsampled music and NOS mode. Sent via Logitech Media Server/Squeezelite player rather.
> 
> But recently am starting to enjoy HQP with Poly-sinc-short-xtr-mp-2s, asdm7ecV2, Dsd256. Very pleasant, non fatiguing, warm sounding filter with really awesome bass.


Lovely.

I think we'll have very similar chains. My plan was Tambaqui - WA33 JPS. I think, depending on what you write out, I might try Holo May KTE first, then try to test out a Tambaqui later. Either way I'm set on the WA33, I'm just torn between JPS SE and JPS EE. Hopefully, I'll get some more opinions on that part soon.


----------



## Roasty

QuantumKat said:


> Lovely.
> 
> I think we'll have very similar chains. My plan was Tambaqui - WA33 JPS. I think, depending on what you write out, I might try Holo May KTE first, then try to test out a Tambaqui later. Either way I'm set on the WA33, I'm just torn between JPS SE and JPS EE. Hopefully, I'll get some more opinions on that part soon.



I'll make it easy for u. 
If u want the overall more balanced sound with nice weight and meat on the mids and bass, then May. 
If you value clarity and space between elements, airiness, and sharpness and microdetails, then Mola.


----------



## QuantumKat

Roasty said:


> I'll make it easy for u.
> If u want the overall more balanced sound with nice weight and meat on the mids and bass, then May.
> If you value clarity and space between elements, airiness, and sharpness and microdetails, then Mola.


That does make it very easy.

My thinking was that I'd use the WA33 to add weight and meat to the mids and bass, not my DAC. Do you feel it's a bit overkill using the May AND the WA33 for that. Or is your sense that the WA33 doesn't really add much weight and meat to the mids and bass?


----------



## Roasty (Dec 9, 2021)

QuantumKat said:


> That does make it very easy.
> 
> My thinking was that I'd use the WA33 to add weight and meat to the mids and bass, not my DAC. Do you feel it's a bit overkill using the May AND the WA33 for that. Or is your sense that the WA33 doesn't really add much weight and meat to the mids and bass?



My take is.. Don't mess up your dac choice and hope that something else down the chain will compensate for it.

I actually find the wa33 quite neutral sounding (maybe slight mids/highs emphasis) especially with 2a3. It gets warmer with 300b 2.5v, and even more so with we417a added in.

I'm on standard wa33 + jps wiring so can't really comment on EE version. But I can tell you that May KTE + WA33 JPS sounds great to me!


----------



## OceanRanger

Roasty said:


> My take is.. Don't mess up your dac choice and hope that something else down the chain will compensate for it.
> 
> I actually find the wa33 quite neutral sounding (maybe slight mids/highs emphasis) especially with 2a3. It gets warmer with 300b 2.5v, and even more so with we417a added in.
> 
> I'm on standard wa33 + jps wiring so can't really comment on EE version. But I can tell you that May KTE + WA33 JPS sounds great to me!


I continue to be amazed at how much difference a DAC makes in the chain...


----------



## Darkliner

Roasty said:


> My take is.. Don't mess up your dac choice and hope that something else down the chain will compensate for it.
> 
> I actually find the wa33 quite neutral sounding (maybe slight mids/highs emphasis) especially with 2a3. It gets warmer with 300b 2.5v, and even more so with we417a added in.
> 
> I'm on standard wa33 + jps wiring so can't really comment on EE version. But I can tell you that May KTE + WA33 JPS sounds great to me!


The elite jps wa33 edition adds more meats on the bones compared to the standard edition.


----------



## TDinCali

You guys are probably more experienced than me so my observation is probably not as thorough or comprehensive but for me the big difference was the clarity. I didn’t think it was possible but the EE had another gear when it came to clarity.


----------



## Ciggavelli

I feel like everything from the standard is even better on the elite, and the standard is already great. I know it’s been mentioned before, but this can quickly be seen with the Susvaras. The Susvaras really do sound better out of the Elite. That might speak to the scalability of the Susvaras as well, compared to other headphones. The TCs sound better too, along with other headphones of course, but the Susvara went from a pair of headphones I was going to sell with the standard edition, to a pair of headphones that are now my 2nd or 3rd favorite.


----------



## Roasty

Ciggavelli said:


> I feel like everything from the standard is even better on the elite, and the standard is already great. I know it’s been mentioned before, but this can quickly be seen with the Susvaras. The Susvaras really do sound better out of the Elite. That might speak to the scalability of the Susvaras as well, compared to other headphones. The TCs sound better too, along with other headphones of course, but the Susvara went from a pair of headphones I was going to sell with the standard edition, to a pair of headphones that are now my 2nd or 3rd favorite.



i have to start ignoring your posts..


----------



## ThanatosVI

pippen99 said:


> Now if I can just get the image of @Ciggavelli's WA33 Elite next to his 3ES Elite out of my head I am really good!


Out of your head onto your desk....


----------



## QuantumKat

I wish Woo made it easy to test the SE vs EE... Gonna be sick dropping $17k blind on the EE. The pandemic makes auditioning so hard 😬


----------



## Drewligarchy (Dec 10, 2021)

Ciggavelli said:


> I feel like everything from the standard is even better on the elite, and the standard is already great. I know it’s been mentioned before, but this can quickly be seen with the Susvaras. The Susvaras really do sound better out of the Elite. That might speak to the scalability of the Susvaras as well, compared to other headphones. The TCs sound better too, along with other headphones of course, but the Susvara went from a pair of headphones I was going to sell with the standard edition, to a pair of headphones that are now my 2nd or 3rd favorite.



I posted it in the Susvara thread, but I think both the Susvara and The TC scale so well with the EE because neither headphone's strongest attribute its it's mids - and the mids on the EE are to die for. Especially with the KR tubes. The mids of each headphone become much richer, but with all the other positive attributes of the headphone.

For the Abyss it essentially turns it into an Abyss with LCD-4 mids.

The soundstage is like an airplane hangar too. Credit @littlej0e for that one, but it's true.


----------



## Drewligarchy

I rearranged my rack a little and thinks this looks a bit better. New rack will have to wait, as my next purchase is probably an LCD-5.

Biggest changes:
- PS audio power plant to amp rack next to main rack (not pictured)
- Glass shelf on lower shelf to not have to stack Enleum 23r directly on M-Scaler (it gets hot, and looks better, I think).
- Opto DX and power supplies for Opto DX and Lumin under the rack for a little bit of a cleaner look.
- I wish Enleum was silver but at least it looks good and is tiny.
- Wish I could make power cables going to the powerplant a little neater.


----------



## Rhodey

Read this whole thread, before and after my wa33 se purchase. This has a lot of great info. Learning to avoid EML haha. 
Just need to figure out some of my next moves. Not sure I wanna drop $$$$ on the KR tubes yet. I read here that the Psvane wr2a3 adds some warmth, but I'd like a little more slam too... Also not ruling out the Psvane 2A3s...
Still deciding on a rectifier tube as well.
I currently use a tt2 but have been on the fence about a HMS or just going Holo may. 

Current headphones are susvara (need to warm them up a bit, maybe tube burn in will help), hd800S, hd650, hd580 and VC. Verite may be sold tho. Just don't reach for them since getting the wa33. The sus and senns get more head time.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Dec 16, 2021)

Rhodey said:


> Read this whole thread, before and after my wa33 se purchase. This has a lot of great info. Learning to avoid EML haha.
> Just need to figure out some of my next moves. Not sure I wanna drop $$$$ on the KR tubes yet. I read here that the Psvane wr2a3 adds some warmth, but I'd like a little more slam too... Also not ruling out the Psvane 2A3s...
> Still deciding on a rectifier tube as well.
> I currently use a tt2 but have been on the fence about a HMS or just going Holo may.
> ...



I haven't tried the Psvane wr2a3 - but have both the KR tubes and the ACME 2a3. This is a vast oversimplification but the PSvane ACME tubes are brighter (very solid state like sound, with benefits of tube specialization) and the KR tubes are warmer in my opinion. That's why I use the KR for Abyss and Susvara and the ACME for the LCD4. I've heard that the wr2a3 adds some bloom, similarly to the KR tubes, but have never directly compared.

If I could only have one setup, I'd keep the KR tubes because I think they are more refined and pair well with more headphones. That said the ACME tubes can sound fantastic with the right headphones/system.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Dec 16, 2021)

QuantumKat said:


> I wish Woo made it easy to test the SE vs EE... Gonna be sick dropping $17k blind on the EE. The pandemic makes auditioning so hard 😬



I upgraded to the EE, and every time I listen it confirms for me that I made the right decision, that said the SE is excellent as well. I feel like the SE is an outstanding tube amplifier, and the EE is the ultimate expression of Woo's sound and craft. It's a piece of art, sonically.


----------



## Rhodey

Drewligarchy said:


> I haven't tried the Psvane wr2a3 - but have both the KR tubes and the ACME 2a3. This is a vast oversimplification but the PSvane ACME tubes are brighter (very solid state like sound, with benefits of tube specialization) and the KR tubes are warmer in my opinion. That's why I use the KR for Abyss and Susvara and the ACME for the LCD4. I've heard that the wr2a3 adds some bloom, similarly to the KR tubes, but have never directly compared.
> 
> If I could only have one setup, I'd keep the KR tubes because I think they are more refined and pair well with more headphones. That said the ACME tubes can sound fantastic with the right headphones/system.


Awesome. Good info and I appreciate your time!


----------



## ThanatosVI (Dec 17, 2021)

Ouch, price increase for 1.1.2022 confirmed.
Feelsbadman, guess it will never be mine...

Source: WooAudio website


----------



## Rhodey

So after doing some thinking, speaking with some people, I think I'll hold off on tubes atm and upgrade my dac first. I'd like to add a little more warmth and I think the tt2 isn't doing it for me (using susvara).


----------



## musicman59

Rhodey said:


> So after doing some thinking, speaking with some people, I think I'll hold off on tubes atm and upgrade my dac first. I'd like to add a little more warmth and I think the tt2 isn't doing it for me (using susvara).


You are correct the TT2 is more in the analytical side IMO. 
The Bricasti M1SE in my opinion has a nice combination of warmth and detail. That is what I am using in my headphones systems and the M21 in the two channel system.


----------



## joseph69

@Rhodey 
I wouldn't rule out the EML 2A3 power tubes, at all because they are very good sounding tubes.
I know some here had unfortunate warranty issues with EML the 300B 2.5v tubes which were eventually resolved, so again, don't rule them out. I'd also deal with George at TubesUSA if you reconsider.
Also, a very big upgrade to the WA33 is the WE 417 drivers w/adapters from Woo. If you want to save on these you can go the route others have gone by purchasing the tubes/adapters elsewhere.


----------



## ThanatosVI

joseph69 said:


> @Rhodey
> I wouldn't rule out the EML 2A3 power tubes, at all because they are very good sounding tubes.
> I know some here had unfortunate warranty issues with EML the 300B 2.5v tubes which were eventually resolved, so again, don't rule them out. I'd also deal with George at TubesUSA if you reconsider.
> Also, a very big upgrade to the WA33 is the WE 417 drivers w/adapters from Woo. If you want to save on these you can go the route others have gone by purchasing the tubes/adapters elsewhere.


Nobody was dissappointed with the EML Sound. 
Warranty and Service is terrible. Many don't Support this not only of fear that they suffer themselfes but to speak with there wallets against such practices in the first place.

From a Sound perspective they are among the very best for sure


----------



## ThanatosVI

Rhodey said:


> So after doing some thinking, speaking with some people, I think I'll hold off on tubes atm and upgrade my dac first. I'd like to add a little more warmth and I think the tt2 isn't doing it for me (using susvara).


Yeah the TT2 is analytical.
You could try a Holo May or if you want it even warmer a Holo Spring 3.
Termimator+ is on the warm side as well if I'm not mistaken


----------



## Drewligarchy

musicman59 said:


> You are correct the TT2 is more in the analytical side IMO.
> The Bricasti M1SE in my opinion has a nice combination of warmth and detail. That is what I am using in my headphones systems and the M21 in the two channel system.



I had an M1Se before the Dave, and while I prefer the Dave - I think the M1SE is an excellent DAC and agree with this assessment. Plus Bricasti has continued to update the DAC for 10 years, and now has a new board! You could argue it's a little old in the tooth, but with the updates they've made perhaps not. Also their customer service is top notch.


----------



## joseph69

ThanatosVI said:


> Warranty and Service is terrible.


I had an issue with 1 of my 2A3 tubes in my first WA33 and George replaced after evaluating it without issue so I definitely didn't have the same experiences with EML warranty or service.


----------



## ThanatosVI

joseph69 said:


> I had an issue with 1 of my 2A3 tubes in my first WA33 and George replaced after evaluating it without issue so I definitely didn't have the same experiences with EML warranty or service.


That is a Service from TubesUSA and he has the trouble for you instead. 

Glad that you got lucky and your issue was resolved fast without trouble


----------



## QuantumKat

Anyone have inside info on the price increase? 👀


----------



## joseph69

ThanatosVI said:


> That is a Service from TubesUSA and he has the trouble for you instead.
> 
> Glad that you got lucky and your issue was resolved fast without trouble


I know most (not all) had issue with JACMUSIC and the 300B 2.5v which is why I mentioned buying from TubeUSA.


----------



## pippen99

My 300B 2.5 came from TubeUsa.  All George did for me was shine me onto Jac.


----------



## Vindication

I just read a good 50 pages here. A lot of good info and some of the guys in here have just the sickest set ups ever.

Im about to pull the trigger on a WA33 Elite and join this little club. Super excited. I've listened to the SE version and I just knew the second I put on the headphones, I was going to own one. No doubt about it. Just different than anything I've ever heard before.

Anyway, thank you guys for the good read! Looking forward to more post in the future!


----------



## Drewligarchy

Vindication said:


> I just read a good 50 pages here. A lot of good info and some of the guys in here have just the sickest set ups ever.
> 
> Im about to pull the trigger on a WA33 Elite and join this little club. Super excited. I've listened to the SE version and I just knew the second I put on the headphones, I was going to own one. No doubt about it. Just different than anything I've ever heard before.
> 
> Anyway, thank you guys for the good read! Looking forward to more post in the future!



You won't be disappointed. What headphones are you using?


----------



## ThanatosVI

QuantumKat said:


> Anyone have inside info on the price increase? 👀


They are still doing the math but expect at least 1k on top of current price.


----------



## Vindication

Drewligarchy said:


> You won't be disappointed. What headphones are you using?


HD800s and Diana TC's.


----------



## QuantumKat

ThanatosVI said:


> They are still doing the math but expect at least 1k on top of current price.


Pulled the trigger.


----------



## ThanatosVI

QuantumKat said:


> Pulled the trigger.


I would too, if I could


----------



## Drewligarchy

ThanatosVI said:


> They are still doing the math but expect at least 1k on top of current price.



At least it helps the value for those that have one!


----------



## ThanatosVI

Drewligarchy said:


> At least it helps the value for those that have one!


Not wrong. As much as it hurts to see price increases it really makes a difference in resale value for already aquired gear.

Looking at my complete setup the msrp increased by roughly 3.5k€ in the past year...


----------



## mat.1

Roasty said:


> Thanks for that input!
> Placed and order today at a local shop and got it delivered in a half hour.
> 
> 
> ...


roasty, what is the specs of the fuse ? Ampere  ;slow blo ; 5x20mm .
 Thanks 🙏


----------



## Roasty

mat.1 said:


> roasty, what is the specs of the fuse ? Ampere  ;slow blo ; 5x20mm .
> Thanks 🙏




20mm Glass
slow Blow
3.15A rating


----------



## mat.1

Roasty said:


> 20mm Glass
> slow Blow
> 3.15A rating


🙏


----------



## Ciggavelli

I got the adapters for the NOS Western Electric driver tubes.  FIrst impressions are wow.  Bass quantity and bass slam have increased.  I'm liking these a lot with hip-hop.  It looks like Woo Audio is sold out of the WE NOS tubes.  I actually got mine WE tubes from another tube place (which were also cheaper than Woo Audio's price).  The Woo Audio adapters are very well made.  They sound and look great


----------



## Roasty

I have three adaptors working OK and one that is malfunctioning. the replacement adaptor I received recently was also malfunctioning (the tube refused to light up and glow and also less music from that channel). so am waiting on a 2nd replacement and fingers crossed, third time lucky..!

@Ciggavelli are your tubes dead quiet?


----------



## JLoud

Ciggavelli said:


> I got the adapters for the NOS Western Electric driver tubes.  FIrst impressions are wow.  Bass quantity and bass slam have increased.  I'm liking these a lot with hip-hop.  It looks like Woo Audio is sold out of the WE NOS tubes.  I actually got mine WE tubes from another tube place (which were also cheaper than Woo Audio's price).  The Woo Audio adapters are very well made.  They sound and look great


How much were the adapters from Woo?


----------



## Ciggavelli

Roasty said:


> I have three adaptors working OK and one that is malfunctioning. the replacement adaptor I received recently was also malfunctioning (the tube refused to light up and glow and also less music from that channel). so am waiting on a 2nd replacement and fingers crossed, third time lucky..!
> 
> @Ciggavelli are your tubes dead quiet?


Yeah, they are dead quiet


----------



## Ciggavelli

JLoud said:


> How much were the adapters from Woo?


$899


----------



## Roasty

Ciggavelli said:


> $899



did u have to special order them via email correspondence with Woo, or they're available off their website directly?


----------



## Ciggavelli

Roasty said:


> did u have to special order them via email correspondence with Woo, or they're available off their website directly?


Get the adapters with the Raytheon 5842s.  Those tubes are like $5 each.  So, you'll get the adapters and some backup tubes as well


----------



## Ciggavelli

These new tubes are a great upgrade. Vocals are a little more forward and that bass is crazy. I didn’t think WA33 bass could be improved, but these WE tubes somehow have done it


----------



## joseph69

Roasty said:


> @Ciggavelli are your tubes dead quiet?





Ciggavelli said:


> Yeah, they are dead quiet


Using which headphones?


----------



## Ciggavelli (Dec 24, 2021)

joseph69 said:


> Using which headphones?


TCs

I’ll test some others, like the Utopias this weekend.


----------



## joseph69

I mentioned in a previous post that my WE 417a drivers were noisy both, ambient and through the drivers with the Utopia, but were getting less and less noisy as they burned in, and continue to do so. Tonight is the very first night I switched from the Utopia to my HE1Kv2 and nothing but absolute silence.


----------



## Drewligarchy

My we417as have no noise, but are slightly microphonic.. The most efficient thing I listened with was a Aeon Flow Open.


----------



## ThanatosVI

A new special quality Version of the KR 2A3 HP tube available. 
https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/kr-au...igh-performance-paar-2-gematchte-roehren?c=42


----------



## pippen99

Things do change!  I checked just two days ago and was still marked unavailable.


----------



## ThanatosVI

pippen99 said:


> Things do change!  I checked just two days ago and was still marked unavailable.


The regular HP Version is still unavailable.
Did you check the new special quality HP Version.

(There is also the regular non HP Version)


----------



## pippen99

Same base, same design, same price.  I would like to try these but very happy with the RCA NOS quad I got in November.  These will have to wait for a year or so due to other priorities.


----------



## Ciggavelli

joseph69 said:


> Using which headphones?


I just tried the Utopias with the 471As.  No noise at 0 volume


----------



## innocentblood

ThanatosVI said:


> A new special quality Version of the KR 2A3 HP tube available.
> https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/kr-au...igh-performance-paar-2-gematchte-roehren?c=42


I wonder how it sounds compared to the white base HP versions that were meant to be exclusive to the US


----------



## musicman59

I listened to the WA33 with a big Meitner DAC and a pair of Utopia with the Axios AG cable.
One of the best sounds I have ever heard at the level of the Sennheiser HE-1.

After that I bought the Axios AG cable for my Utopia and still one of my all time favorite headphones.


----------



## joseph69

Anyone still using the EML 300B 2.5v?
If so, how long have you been using them, and have you had any issues with the WA33 itself?


----------



## Ciggavelli

I've been trying the new 417a tubes with different headphones.  The Susvara's bass is definitely hitting harder now.  I'm kind of surprised by it actually.  The bass is detailed, extends all the way down, and there is pretty good bass impact.  These 417a tubes are pretty great


----------



## pippen99

joseph69 said:


> Anyone still using the EML 300B 2.5v?
> If so, how long have you been using them, and have you had any issues with the WA33 itself?


Gone. Good Riddance!


----------



## joseph69

pippen99 said:


> Gone. Good Riddance!


I know you loved them.
I'm interested in any issues with the WA33...not the tubes.
Anyone else?


----------



## pippen99

I understand and will try to do better.  I have noticed two things since they have been gone.  My WA33 as are some others here is a hummer.  I do not recall how bad it hummed with the stock EH quad but it hummed quite noticeably with both EML quads(2A3 and 300B 2.5v).  With the Sovteks the hum was very much reduced and with the RCA 2A3 NOS quad the amp is even quieter.  I also have begun using a WE 417A driver quad at the same time I received the RCAs.  I doubt the drivers would be helpful here so I would attribute the reduction in hum to the Power Tubes.  The other thing I have noticed is the amp seems to run cooler than with the EMLs.  I rarely listen to more than two albums consecutively and with the RCAs the amp usually does not reach palm frying temperature in that time period.  Yes it can still get really hot but takes longer to get there.  I would suspect that the RCAs are less powerful than the EMLs but that is just a SWAG.  Hope that is more responsive.

Off topic for this thread.  I know many WA33 owners have purchased Audeze LCD-5 headphones.  I received the revised headband today.  The clamping force is reduced considerably making a reasonably comfortable headphone very comfortable(YMMV).  It is worth the effort to reach out to Audeze support.  I received mine seven days after first contact and that included Christmas.


----------



## joseph69

@pippen99 
Thanks for the in-depth response.
I listen to my WA33 for 3-5hrs +/-5 nights a week and don't have any issue with how hot it gets, and it gets hot but not overly hot too me. My main concern is damage to the WA33 since Woo doesn't recommend using the 300B 2.5v.


----------



## Ciggavelli

My WA33 gets much hotter with the TCs compared to the Utopias. I use the same settings, the only difference is the TCs have a higher volume level. This lead me to believe the higher the volume, the hotter the amp. Which makes sense I guess


----------



## joseph69

Ciggavelli said:


> My WA33 gets much hotter with the TCs compared to the Utopias. I use the same settings, the only difference is the TCs have a higher volume level. This lead me to believe the higher the volume, the hotter the amp. Which makes sense I guess


The harder I push my amp the hotter it gets, for sure.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Ciggavelli said:


> My WA33 gets much hotter with the TCs compared to the Utopias. I use the same settings, the only difference is the TCs have a higher volume level. This lead me to believe the higher the volume, the hotter the amp. Which makes sense I guess


In terms of heat, how do Wa33 and 3ES compare?


----------



## Ciggavelli

ThanatosVI said:


> In terms of heat, how do Wa33 and 3ES compare?


The WA33 gets hotter


----------



## Ciggavelli

Kinda WA33 adjacent, but the 3ES Elite hums a little too. It isn’t enough to bother me at all. My old WA33 hummed, as others have noted. My WA33 Elite luckily doesn’t hum at all. I know some other Elite owners have mentioned no hum at all either. I guess it’s the updated transformer. 

Oh, side note, and not to be a broken record, but these 417a tubes are amazing. They are taking a lot of time away from my 3ES/CRBN setup.


----------



## pippen99

I did not know anything about updated transformers.  My Elite is a Dec 2019 build and does hum.


----------



## Ciggavelli

pippen99 said:


> I did not know anything about updated transformers.  My Elite is a Dec 2019 build and does hum.


I used the wrong word. I meant “upgraded” from the Standard Edition transformer


----------



## ThanatosVI

All this discussion about random humming is a little worrying


----------



## paradoxper

ThanatosVI said:


> All this discussion about random humming is a little worrying


LMAO.


----------



## Ciggavelli

paradoxper said:


> LMAO.


----------



## JLoud

My WA33 hums but it isn’t noticeable with headphones playing. So unless it starts humming show tunes I’m not worried.


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


>


More common than you'd reason, either. Eddie Current amps often hummed.

Unacceptable for my standards.


----------



## Vindication

Officially joined the club Tuesday. Black WA33 EE JPS. Jack said 4 weeks for my build. My dealer said price increase starting on the first was 15 percent….now sure how accurate that is.


----------



## jlbrach

costs are completely out of control, I have to imagine we get to a point where it becomes prohibitive


----------



## Ciggavelli (Dec 31, 2021)

jlbrach said:


> costs are completely out of control, I have to imagine we get to a point where it becomes prohibitive


If it's really a 15% increase, that's almost $20K for the WA33 EE JPS, not including upgraded tubes.  That's kinda crazy.  Seeing that 20K just seems a lot worse than $17K, but I guess it is what it is


----------



## jlbrach

add tax to the cost as well...out of control


----------



## jonathan c

jlbrach said:


> costs are completely *out of control*, I have to imagine we get to a point where it becomes prohibitive


Costs to Woo Audio or wholesale/retail prices to the dealer/buyer? Woo Audio, as does any business, has to decide what proportion of cost increases is passed onto consumers. Too high, demand drops; too low, gross margin drops. Woo Audio has to determine the _elasticity* _of demand for each product in its lineup - difficult to do beforehand, easy to discover the hard way afterwards.

(*sensitivity of unit demand to unit price)


----------



## TDinCali

Ciggavelli said:


> Oh, side note, and not to be a broken record, but these 417a tubes are amazing.



Great to hear! I’m expecting my set this coming Monday.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Jan 1, 2022)

Maybe I am just paranoid (no I am definitely paranoid, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong).

I've been tube rolling a bit this weekend, and examining the insides of my tubes a bit more than usual.

When I popped back in my KR 274B, and turned my amp on, after the power button flashes and right at the click the amp makes, the rectifier flashed blue for split second.

I remember this happened to some of my previous stock power tubes, but wasn't really concerned because they were less expensive. Is this a potential issue with the tube? After it occurred, I played the amp for about an hour with no problems. I also turned on the amp probably 5-10 minutes after I turned it off - so it may have not cooled down enough.

Then I looked at the pins under the spacer at the bottom. It looks like the solder joint of the second pin from the left is very close to the wire soldered to the first pin? connection to the first pin. In other words, is it close enough to short? I have never noticed this before but I don't think it's new.

What y'all think? - Issue with the tube, or nothing?  Just trying too prevent the rectifier from blowing up and taking my amp with it.


----------



## innocentblood

May 2022 shine bright and beautiful for you and yours  Happy New Year everyone!


----------



## Drewligarchy

Drewligarchy said:


> Maybe I am just paranoid (no I am definitely paranoid, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong).
> 
> I've been tube rolling a bit this weekend, and examining the insides of my tubes a bit more than usual.
> 
> ...



From reading online, I should probably take the rectifier out of service immediately. Do y'all agree?


----------



## JLoud

I have read the blue flash or the like can be an indication the tube is about to go. I would remove it till you get a definitive answer.


----------



## 1S0U0N0S

Helllo I just have a quick question are there any amps that you guys could think of that gives that "holographic" type of audio like the WA33 does? 
I have been curious if anything has come close to what you guys describe comes out of the WA33.


----------



## TDinCali

I’m sorry, when you say holographic, what does that mean in audio? I’ve seen that expression used before but I’m not sure I understand it. Is it imaging related?


----------



## joseph69

TDinCali said:


> I’m sorry, when you say holographic, what does that mean in audio? I’ve seen that expression used before but I’m not sure I understand it. Is it imaging related?


Multi-dimensional


----------



## 1S0U0N0S

TDinCali said:


> I’m sorry, when you say holographic, what does that mean in audio? I’ve seen that expression used before but I’m not sure I understand it. Is it imaging related?


Look in your private messages I have a whole explanation on what it is. You will get what I am saying when you read it. Just read it slow.


----------



## lucasratmundo

Ciggavelli said:


> Oh, side note, and not to be a broken record, but these 417a tubes are amazing. They are taking a lot of time away from my 3ES/CRBN setup.



What’s the impact in sound from the 417a in your experience?


----------



## Vindication

Well, my source who was the source was incorrect. The price increase was indeed a 1000 bucks. Sorry fellas! Who ever said a 1000 earlier in the thread was dead on accurate!


----------



## Ciggavelli

lucasratmundo said:


> What’s the impact in sound from the 417a in your experience?


More bass quantity, a little bit more forward vocals, and some increased dynamic (things are punchier and more alive)


----------



## ThanatosVI

I'm glad that the base Version only increased by 500$ instead of the indicated "at least 1k"


----------



## TDinCali

Got the 417a!  If I’m experiencing a placebo so be it! Whatever it’s doing - I LIKE IT!


----------



## ThanatosVI

TDinCali said:


> Got the 417a!  If I’m experiencing a placebo so be it! Whatever it’s doing - I LIKE IT!


They look gorgeous paired with the white base KR2A3


----------



## MasonStorm

TDinCali said:


> Got the 417a!  If I’m experiencing a placebo so be it! Whatever it’s doing - I LIKE IT!


That really does look beautiful!

I saw with chagrin that Woo ran out of these 417A's.  What date codes are on yours?  Did they match the date code on all four tubes?


----------



## krt230

So this past weekend I did a direct comparison of my new system and my old one.

System 1: PC > Qobuz > standard USB > Woo Audio WA5-LE > Hifiman HE1000se with standard cord

System 2 (new): PC > Qobuz > AudioQuest Carbon USB > Chord M Scaler > Dual SilverDragon BNC > Chord Hugo TT2 > AudioQuest MacKenzie > Woo Audio WA33 > DanaCable Lazuli ref. Hifiman Susvara all powered by PS Audio PowerPlant

While doing a direct comparison, there was very little difference between the two to me. I then had my wife do a blind test as well as my son. They both picked the much cheaper System 1.

To say I’m disappointed is a dramatic understatement. I find it hard to believe these two setups would be comparable, let alone, having two different people both prefer the cheaper setup.

What am I missing? Is there something that can make this system shine? My wife said system 2 sounded muddled and upon hearing that my son agreed. I also changed System 2 to play the Hifiman HE1000se and neither could tell a difference from System 1 playing the same headphone. Either could I to be honest.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I’m feeling a bit fool at the moment considering how much more money System 2 cost me. Thanks for any help.


----------



## Roasty

krt230 said:


> So this past weekend I did a direct comparison of my new system and my old one.
> 
> System 1: PC > Qobuz > standard USB > Woo Audio WA5-LE > Hifiman HE1000se with standard cord
> 
> ...



What's the dac in system 1?


----------



## krt230

Forgot that part - it's a Burson Audio DAC about 10 years old?  It's a bit buried at the moment so can't check the model, but I remember paying about $1,000 for it new.


----------



## genefruit

krt230 said:


> So this past weekend I did a direct comparison of my new system and my old one.
> 
> System 1: PC > Qobuz > standard USB > Woo Audio WA5-LE > Hifiman HE1000se with standard cord
> 
> ...


Not sure it matters but system one listing doesn’t indicate the DAC. From there, I’d start swapping components around until you find the culprit.


----------



## TDinCali (Jan 4, 2022)

Conclusion = Chord overrated.

Just kidding.

In all honesty maybe there isn’t much of a difference but I’d also say that often newbies don’t know what they should be paying attention to to know the difference.

Not a great comparison but give two different whiskies to people who don’t drink whiskey and ask them to compare it.

Sometimes it’s the music itself. Doesn’t have the production value to be a good source.


----------



## genefruit

TDinCali said:


> Conclusion = Chord overrated.
> 
> Just kidding.
> 
> ...


Common component is the PC. Perhaps the source is the issue?


----------



## krt230

Also forgot to mention, System 1 has standard tubes and System 2 has upgraded KR tubes.

And...my wife, in a blind test, definitely prefers my Johnnie Walker Blue to Black.  And Macallan 25 to 12.  Some things should be self evident.  I would hope the dramatic price difference between these systems would also be self evident.


----------



## TDinCali

I agree it’s very interesting. The fact that you don’t hear the difference between the 1khe and the Susvara. They are tuned different.


----------



## krt230

The 2 headphones do sound different, but the System 2 doesn't sound better than System 1.  I thought that would be impossible.  

I thought about the PC as a source being the weak link, but I've told my wife over and over again - just another $10,000 and it will sound great.  That line is wearing a little thin at this point.


----------



## Roasty

krt230 said:


> , but I've told my wife over and over again - just another $10,000 and it will sound great.



the fact that you can say this to her, and then go ahead and do it over and over again, is already a win in my books!


----------



## OneEyedHito (Jan 4, 2022)

What about the HEKSE in System 2?  If you mentioned that and I missed it I apologize, but as everyone stated, I would (and do in my comparisons when looking for synergy) compare part to part with the same headphones, basically piece by piece if you will.  Tedious but the end results have always shown me that the Susvara are my best headphones I have owned or heard, HA!

I have to add that I will occasionally have my Wife or my Son listen to some fancy new piece of gear in my chain or even a song that presents itself differently than originally heard but at the end of the day their opinions of my audio mean absolutely nothing to me.  We all hear differently and at this very top of the chain listening the differences are alot of times incredibly subtle.  Synergy is king for me in my experience now.


----------



## krt230

OneEyedHito said:


> What about the HEKSE in System 2?



This was the shocking part.  The HEKSE in system 1 and 2 were both very, very similar.  I honestly can't comprehend this - all that money and gear must make some difference?  I listened to System 1 for the better part of 3 days while I worked and never once felt like I was missing something from system 2 (which I've listened to exclusively for the past several months).


----------



## OneEyedHito

krt230 said:


> This was the shocking part.  The HEKSE in system 1 and 2 were both very, very similar.  I honestly can't comprehend this - all that money and gear must make some difference?  I listened to System 1 for the better part of 3 days while I worked and never once felt like I was missing something from system 2 (which I've listened to exclusively for the past several months).


I owned the HEKSE and I prefer the Susvara to it 3-1, like Coke over Pepsi.......but I don't drink that crap.


----------



## TDinCali

krt230 said:


> This was the shocking part.  The HEKSE in system 1 and 2 were both very, very similar.  I honestly can't comprehend this - all that money and gear must make some difference?  I listened to System 1 for the better part of 3 days while I worked and never once felt like I was missing something from system 2 (which I've listened to exclusively for the past several months).


Unfortunate but if you’re happy with system 1 then sell the other components to recoup some of your funds and call it day. Nothing wrong with that.


----------



## Ciggavelli

krt230 said:


> So this past weekend I did a direct comparison of my new system and my old one.
> 
> System 1: PC > Qobuz > standard USB > Woo Audio WA5-LE > Hifiman HE1000se with standard cord
> 
> ...


I could just be that you haven't taken enough time to have your brain adjust to the differences.  It's like when you first start smoking, and you think all cigarettes taste the same.  But if you continue smoking, you come to realize that a menthol is much different than a regular cigarette.  I guess the same can be said of alcohol.  When you first start drinking all beers taste bad and terrible (but they get you drunk, so you keep trying).  Eventually you can tell the difference between different types of beers.  It could be like that.


----------



## krt230

Is the general recommendation that I shouldn't notice much difference or that there's a possible weak link in my system?  The only thing left I can think of is buying a streamer, but I don't want to unless it's going to make a significant impact.

Also, is there any reason the Susvara sounds a bit muffled?  

Thanks for any help.


----------



## Ciggavelli

krt230 said:


> Is the general recommendation that I shouldn't notice much difference or that there's a possible weak link in my system?  The only thing left I can think of is buying a streamer, but I don't want to unless it's going to make a significant impact.
> 
> Also, is there any reason the Susvara sounds a bit muffled?
> 
> Thanks for any help.


Streamers are nice, but a better bang for your buck is a usb reclocker (like the Innuos PhoenixUSB).  Also, make sure you have the right volume on your dac.  I also like to use the high gain on my WA33 for the Susvaras (others disagree though).


----------



## jlbrach

Ciggavelli said:


> I could just be that you haven't taken enough time to have your brain adjust to the differences.  It's like when you first start smoking, and you think all cigarettes taste the same.  But if you continue smoking, you come to realize that a menthol is much different than a regular cigarette.  I guess the same can be said of alcohol.  When you first start drinking all beers taste bad and terrible (but they get you drunk, so you keep trying).  Eventually you can tell the difference between different types of beers.  It could be like that.


yes, first time I drank a beer as a kid I spit it out and said this cant possibly be what everyone is raving about...now I love a good beer..same with bourbon


----------



## Ciggavelli (Jan 4, 2022)

krt230 said:


> Is the general recommendation that I shouldn't notice much difference or that there's a possible weak link in my system?  The only thing left I can think of is buying a streamer, but I don't want to unless it's going to make a significant impact.
> 
> Also, is there any reason the Susvara sounds a bit muffled?
> 
> Thanks for any help.


I was thinking some more on this situation. Your bnc cables could be improved. I use SoTM and others like WAVE bnc cables (crappy bnc cables result in a bad sound between the TT2 and M-scaler). Maybe try taking out the m-scaler to see what solo TT2 sounds like.

Also, try taking system 2 off the PowerPlant. Next, try setting your TT2 to dac mode. If that doesn’t help, use your System 1 cables in System 2 and add in the new cables one by one. You can then hear differences more easily


----------



## Roasty

I think one of the weaker links may be the one that is rather early on in the system 2 chain. ie the AQ Carbon USB. 
then again, I'm a cable believer..


----------



## jonathan c

Roasty said:


> I think one of the weaker links may be the one that is rather *early on *in the system 2 chain. ie the AQ Carbon USB.
> then again, I'm a cable believer..


I agree…the list of suspects should be headed by the PC and the USB cable…


----------



## krt230

jonathan c said:


> I agree…the list of suspects should be headed by the PC and the USB cable…



How do you suggest I fix the PC issue?  Does that mean streamer, usb reclocker, or something else?  I'm going to address the usb for sure, just not sure the best way to handle the PC.


----------



## Vindication

I probably should be following your situation closely as for the time being, I'll be using a PC as the source.


----------



## helljudgement

krt230 said:


> Is the general recommendation that I shouldn't notice much difference or that there's a possible weak link in my system?


It could be the synergy. Simply slapping together multiple expensive gear doesn't automatically make it a winner in my experience. I much prefer listening to hd600 paired with DNA Sonett then hd800 with wa2/22 even though the latter is the more expensive setup. Synergy is key.

There are also plenty of variances introduced between sys 1 and 2 such as different dac and even a different headphone. I'd probably just swap the amp out in sys 1 and start evaluating the amps with both headphones from there. No need to change out other parts until you at least find the wa33 suits your audio preferences else you'd just be throwing money in hopes of it possibly clicking and that seldom works in my experience. It could just be you preferring the wa5 over wa33 which is entirely possible. 300b v 2a3 sound etc. 

In short,
- Keep all things equal when comparing. Only swap out the amps for evaluation.
- Don't spend a single cent extra until you've confirmed the wa33 fit your sound preference. Perfecting the setup with a dedicated streamer/cables/conditioner comes after.


----------



## OneEyedHito (Jan 5, 2022)

helljudgement said:


> It could be the synergy. Simply slapping together multiple expensive gear doesn't automatically make it a winner in my experience. I much prefer listening to hd600 paired with DNA Sonett then hd800 with wa2/22 even though the latter is the more expensive setup. Synergy is key.
> 
> There are also plenty of variances introduced between sys 1 and 2 such as different dac and even a different headphone. I'd probably just swap the amp out in sys 1 and start evaluating the amps with both headphones from there. No need to change out other parts until you at least find the wa33 suits your audio preferences else you'd just be throwing money in hopes of it possibly clicking and that seldom works in my experience. It could just be you preferring the wa5 over wa33 which is entirely possible. 300b v 2a3 sound etc.
> 
> ...


Nailed it.

Also are your 2a3 tubes in your WA33 Mesh or Solid?  Mesh aren’t recommended for pre/headphone amps by EML. They introduce micro-phonics.

Also for anyone here that have complained about hum/noise on your WA33 that hasn’t checked specific tube construction check your 2a3 tubes first.


----------



## jonathan c

krt230 said:


> How do you suggest I fix the PC issue?  Does that mean streamer, usb reclocker, or something else?  I'm going to address the usb for sure, just not sure the best way to handle the PC.


~ How are you using the PC? ‘Ripped’ CDs or internet access? If the latter, a streamer would be a marked improvement.
~ My _bias_, regardless of source (mostly CD / vinyl in my case) is to go with the best source components financially possible then to work ‘downstream’.


----------



## krt230

jonathan c said:


> ~ How are you using the PC? ‘Ripped’ CDs or internet access? If the latter, a streamer would be a marked improvement.
> ~ My _bias_, regardless of source (mostly CD / vinyl in my case) is to go with the best source components financially possible then to work ‘downstream’.



I'm streaming Qobuz.  Any recommendation on a streamer?


----------



## ThanatosVI

krt230 said:


> I'm streaming Qobuz.  Any recommendation on a streamer?


What's the desired budget?


----------



## krt230

ThanatosVI said:


> What's the desired budget?



Not sure - it tends to be a moving target.  Lol.


----------



## jonathan c

ThanatosVI said:


> What's the desired budget?


Is the budget itself ever desired? It’s usually what one is stuck with…🤷🏻🤔…


----------



## ThanatosVI

jonathan c said:


> Is the budget itself ever desired? It’s usually what one is stuck with…🤷🏻🤔…


Well it doesn't help if his budget is 1k and he receives recommendations for 5k.

There are great options in different price categories. There are dimnishing returns but from my own experience you often "get what you paid for"

For Servers one can be happy with a simple Roon ROCK on an Intel NUC for a few hundred bucks and some more manual effort
Get an Innuos Zenmini Mk3 for a grand 
Or even more esoteric choices in the 5 digit realm.

Since we're in a summit fi amplifier thread, it's really hard to make an assumption for the Server budget.


----------



## pippen99

My WA33 EE has hummed on all 4 sets of tubes used.  The volume of the hum has varied by brand.  In order from loudest to most quiet:  EML Mesh>EH(stock)>Sovtek>RCA NOS Black Plate.  The RCA tubes are significantly quieter than the EML and EH.


----------



## krt230

ThanatosVI said:


> Well it doesn't help if his budget is 1k and he receives recommendations for 5k.
> 
> There are great options in different price categories. There are dimnishing returns but from my own experience you often "get what you paid for"
> 
> ...




Under $10k and the lower the better unless there's a marked improvement.  I'm willing to spend if it's really worth it.


----------



## OneEyedHito

pippen99 said:


> My WA33 EE has hummed on all 4 sets of tubes used.  The volume of the hum has varied by brand.  In order from loudest to most quiet:  EML Mesh>EH(stock)>Sovtek>RCA NOS Black Plate.  The RCA tubes are significantly quieter than the EML and EH.


Do you know which of those are Solid Plate versus Mesh?


----------



## Drewligarchy (Jan 5, 2022)

krt230 said:


> I'm streaming Qobuz.  Any recommendation on a streamer?


Lumin U1. It’s amazing. If too expensive I’d go for the U1 mini. It’s a tank, sounds great and a pleasure to use.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Jan 5, 2022)

So I’ve learned some interesting things the past couple days, because of some oddities with my system.

First off, I was hearing some intermittent distortion in the left driver of my Abyss. I initially thought it was a hair, but then it came back. Was concerned I would need a new driver. Anyhow, it turned out to be my Superconductor cable. I have the dual XLR so it was easy to pin down working with abyss, and they weee fast and responsive. My cable is with Joe and team and they are checking it, probably a loose connection or something. Sure as heck beats a broken driver. Since switching to the stock cable issue has not returned

Concurrently, my KR 274b exhibited a light flash during cold start. I noticed it when my lights were off. You can’t really see it with the lights on - so maybe it was doing this before. Anyhow, spoke to Woo and they said it’s normal for some KR 274B on cold start, and not to worry about it. Still sounds phenomenal. I’ve also read about some other rectifiers doing this like the PSvane 274B.

While I was waiting to hear back from Woo kn the rectifier, I was using the Tak 274B and the Abyss with the stock cable. Still using KR2a3. The Tak which previously sounded very mid forward and bright with the AC cable, now sounds lush. The KR 274B which sounded lush, now sounds bright. I don’t know what’s going on with that headphone cable but it completely changes the frequency response on the headphone and thus the gear around it. I missed it dearly until I discovered the Tak/Kr 2a3 combo - which reminds me of the sound I got with the full KR set and superconductor (though I still love my superconductor).

This seems to explain why some people found the Tak bright and some lush. If not with the abyss, with chains like this - every single element in the chain makes a difference. And a huge difference at that. I couldn’t listen to the Tak at all before - now it’s great.

Weird.

I will say both Woo and Abyss have been incredibly responsive to my many questions and issues, worked hard to get me through whatever issues I was having, and, and I am freaking annoying - and they’ve both tolerates me  We spend a lot on our equipment and it’s nice to feel the manufacturer has your back.

If you have an Abyss and the SC, switch back to the stock and check it out. You now have a completely new flavor of sound to play with. I don’t know what Voo Doo Joe puts in that cable - but it is the definitely the most dramatic difference I’ve ever heard in a cable of any kind - and I know that’s the point, but it doesn’t make it any less cool.

It always sucks to have issues with your gear, but it’s amazing how much you can learn.

Last thing - Blackie Pagano is a world famous tube amp technician in NY and works on both pro and hifi tube gear only. He’s worked with every band you know - and many you should. You can pay a small fee and schedule a zoom with him if you have any questions or problems with your tube gear. He had a profile done by Steven Guttenberg, Stereophile and The Atlantic. And he’s an absolutely great guy. Google him and check out his sight if you are interested.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Drewligarchy said:


> So I’ve learned some interesting things the past couple days, because of some oddities with my system.
> 
> First off, I was hearing some intermittent distortion in the left driver of my Abyss. I initially thought it was a hair, but then it came back. Was concerned I would need a new driver. Anyhow, it turned out to be my Superconductor cable. I have the dual XLR so it was easy to pin down working with abyss, and they weee fast and responsive. My cable is with Joe and team and they are checking it, probably a loose connection or something. Sure as heck beats a broken driver. Since switching to the stock cable issue has not returned
> 
> ...


Nice to hear about great customer service


----------



## pippen99

OneEyedHito said:


> Do you know which of those are Solid Plate versus Mesh?


The EML were mesh.  All others are solid plate.


----------



## mat.1

I am visiting US right now.
Is it ok to bring back tubes into checked baggage ?


----------



## Drewligarchy

Anyone try the EML 5U4G in the Woo Wa33? I know most of the upgrade tubes are 274B, but curious what an upgrade 5U4G sounds like. I know a lot of you have EML tubes, anyone try that rectifier?


----------



## Ciggavelli (Jan 6, 2022)

mat.1 said:


> I am visiting US right now.
> Is it ok to bring back tubes into checked baggage ?


Well, they ship them through a mail carrier, whom probably does not take the utmost care with the package during travel. As long as you protect and box up the tubes with padding, you should be fine.

If you mean do you have to declare them? I’m not sure, nor a legal expert, but I’d probably guess yes, if you want to be 100% above board.


----------



## genefruit

Ciggavelli said:


> Well, they ship them through a mail carrier, whom probably does not take the utmost care with the package during travel. As long as you protect and box up the tubes with padding, you should be fine.
> 
> If you mean do you have to declare them? I’m not sure, nor a legal expert, but I’d probably guess yes, if you want to be 100% above board.


Perhaps the concern is with TSA agents not having a clue what this glass bottle contraption going through the x-ray is and/or being required to check them.


----------



## Ciggavelli

genefruit said:


> Perhaps the concern is with TSA agents not having a clue what this glass bottle contraption going through the x-ray is and/or being required to check them.


That’s a good point. I’ve heard stories of people traveling with Utopias or TCs and TSA being completely confused about what they are and think they are potentially dangerous


----------



## mat.1

Thank you all.
The point is with TSA , will TSA take the tubes if they fell dangerous ?


----------



## Drewligarchy

mat.1 said:


> Thank you all.
> The point is with TSA , will TSA take the tubes if they fell dangerous ?



I don't think so. They look like light bulbs. I personally think they are fine to take through customs.


----------



## OneEyedHito

Does anyone in here have a set of 417A adapters to sell?


----------



## jlbrach

Ciggavelli said:


> That’s a good point. I’ve heard stories of people traveling with Utopias or TCs and TSA being completely confused about what they are and think they are potentially dangerous


I came through customs a while back with my lcd-4z I had at the time....it took me 30 minutes to convince them they were headphones


----------



## smodtactical

Anyone have internal pictures of the wa33 ?


----------



## Drewligarchy

jlbrach said:


> I came through customs a while back with my lcd-4z I had at the time....it took me 30 minutes to convince them they were headphones



Here's a shortcut: Plug them in, put them on their head, and press play


----------



## ThanatosVI

I guess most users in here run KR Audio tubes in their Wa33.

Did anyone ever try Sophia Electric 2A3 or 300B 2.5V tubes?
If so how was the experience. What is their character like?
And did anyone ever have experience with their Warranty?


----------



## Drewligarchy (Jan 11, 2022)

ThanatosVI said:


> I guess most users in here run KR Audio tubes in their Wa33.
> 
> Did anyone ever try Sophia Electric 2A3 or 300B 2.5V tubes?
> If so how was the experience. What is their character like?
> And did anyone ever have experience with their Warranty?



I run predominantly KR tubes because I think they are the best match with the Abyss and Susvara. I haven't tried the Sophia 2a3, and while some tubes are certainly better than others, I think it's more about synergy than anything else. I also have a quad of the Psvane ACME, and they work best with warmer headphones like the LCD-4 in my opinion, because they are brighter. I'm sure all tubes have their unique characteristics, but if you have warmer headphone like the Empyrean (haven't tried the Solitaire or Elite), something like the ACME may be best. That said, all my headphones sound good with the KR tubes, so I do think they are good all arounders. From what I've read, the EML 2a3s and the PSvane wr2a3 are more similar in tonality to the KR tubes, if you are looking for something less expensive - but those who have those tubes are in a better position to speak to those attributes.

I will say that the rectifier really can affect the sound of the power tubes as well. The KRs with the Tak sound significantly more mid-forward than with the KR 274B. To me the Tak/KR combo didn't work as well with the LCD-5 or Abyss with SC cable - because they each are more mid-forward (the SC cable really does bring the mids out with the Abyss.) I, however, found the Tak and KR tubes are best for the Abyss with the stock cable. The the USAF 596 is somewhere in between the KR and Tak rectifier, and the EML 5U4G is even warmer than the KR 274B - though I only have listened to the EML for a couple days - so I need more critical listening time.

The drivers make a difference as well. I think the We417as are a little more precise / forward than the EH Gold Pins tonality wise - which combines really well with all KR tubes. They also have a really massive sense of space, and long decays - which just sounds fantastic on the Abyss. With this amp, you can really dial in the exact tonality you want, it can just get expensive


----------



## ThanatosVI

Drewligarchy said:


> I run predominantly KR tubes because I think they are the best match with the Abyss and Susvara. I haven't tried the Sophia 2a3, and while some tubes are certainly better than others, I think it's more about synergy than anything else. I also have a quad of the Psvane ACME, and they work best with warmer headphones like the LCD-4 in my opinion, because they are brighter. I'm sure all tubes have their unique characteristics, but if you have warmer headphone like the Empyrean (haven't tried the Solitaire or Elite), something like the ACME may be best. That said, all my headphones sound good with the KR tubes, so I do think they are good all arounders. From what I've read, the EML 2a3s and the PSvane wr2a3 are more similar in tonality to the KR tubes, if you are looking for something less expensive - but those who have those tubes are in a better position to speak to those attributes.
> 
> I will say that the rectifier really can affect the sound of the power tubes as well. The KRs with the Tak sound significantly more mid-forward than with the KR 274B. To me the Tak/KR combo didn't work as well with the LCD-5 or Abyss with SC cable - because they each are more mid-forward (the SC cable really does bring the mids out with the Abyss.) I, however, found the Tak and KR tubes are best for the Abyss with the stock cable. The the USAF 596 is somewhere in between the KR and Tak rectifier, and the EML 5U4G is even warmer than the KR 274B - though I only have listened to the EML for a couple days - so I need more critical listening time.
> 
> The drivers make a difference as well. I think the We417as are a little more precise / forward than the EH Gold Pins tonality wise - which combines really well with all KR tubes. They also have a really massive sense of space, and long decays - which just sounds fantastic on the Abyss. With this amp, you can really dial in the exact tonality you want, it can just get expensive


I totally agree.
Therefore it would be helpful to know the sonic characteristics of the Sophia Electric tubes compared to others. (Or in general a list of tubes and their sonic character. Bright,  warm, intimate etc.)


----------



## innocentblood

any impressions regarding the KR Audio 2A3-*SQ* Special Quality High Performance tubes so far? I'd like to know if there are any significant differences as compared to the previous *HP* version.
​


----------



## Chianti

Drewligarchy said:


> I will say that the rectifier really can affect the sound of the power tubes as well. The KRs with the Tak sound significantly more mid-forward than with the KR 274B. To me the Tak/KR combo didn't work as well with the LCD-5 or Abyss with SC cable


Same here - across other headphones, went back this morning from Take 274-B to the KR rectifier and liking it better - seems like the Take was "too soft" if that makes sense, all-KR set works well together


Drewligarchy said:


> The drivers make a difference as well. I think the We417as are a little more precise / forward than the EH Gold Pins tonality wise - which combines really well with all KR tubes. They also have a really massive sense of space, and long decays - which just sounds fantastic on the Abyss. With this amp, you can really dial in the exact tonality you want, it can just get expensive


I have the We417a with Woo adapters still sitting on the shelf, will try next. Thanks for sharing your results!


----------



## OneEyedHito

Chianti said:


> Same here - across other headphones, went back this morning from Take 274-B to the KR rectifier and liking it better - seems like the Take was "too soft" if that makes sense, all-KR set works well together
> 
> I have the We417a with Woo adapters still sitting on the shelf, will try next. Thanks for sharing your results!


If you want to move those WE’s with adapters along please message me!


----------



## 1S0U0N0S

Some of you might think I am joking, but do you guys ever worry about teeth damage? I notice when I crank the bass up I can feel the vibrations on my cheek


----------



## ThanatosVI

1S0U0N0S said:


> Some of you might think I am joking, but do you guys ever worry about teeth damage? I notice when I crank the bass up I can feel the vibrations on my cheek


I have a feeling you should be worried about ear damage a lot more.

I am a Bass head, but never experience any noteable Vibrations. Guess you're listening A LOT louder than me.


----------



## 1S0U0N0S

ThanatosVI said:


> I have a feeling you should be worried about ear damage a lot more.
> 
> I am a Bass head, but never experience any noteable Vibrations. Guess you're listening A LOT louder than me.


The vibration is literally so strong that I could feel it against my teeth. I am actually thinking about wearing a mouth guard. I eq my music a bit and the bass is disgusting LOL.


----------



## ufospls2

1S0U0N0S said:


> Some of you might think I am joking, but do you guys ever worry about teeth damage? I notice when I crank the bass up I can feel the vibrations on my cheek


No, you'll be fine. Though, do keep in mind ears and your hearing doesn't last forever, and is not indestructible.


----------



## Drewligarchy

1S0U0N0S said:


> Some of you might think I am joking, but do you guys ever worry about teeth damage? I notice when I crank the bass up I can feel the vibrations on my cheek



You get used to it - I've already lost most of my teeth from the Abyss. On the bright side, the tooth fairy has been funding my many tube upgrades.


----------



## Ciggavelli

1S0U0N0S said:


> Some of you might think I am joking, but do you guys ever worry about teeth damage? I notice when I crank the bass up I can feel the vibrations on my cheek


No, and I’m listening with the TCs and sometimes my th900mk2 (both serious bass headphones). I go to like 75db, but never above 80db. I feel 75-80db is really loud, and I’ve never had my cheeks vibrate. I guess with eq’d bass you could maybe make your cheeks rattle with the LCD-4s, but it seems too risky.  It’s not worth the potential hearing loss


----------



## jlbrach

sometimes I wonder if people just like to punk people here...teeth damage from headphones lol....I mean seriously


----------



## ThanatosVI

jlbrach said:


> sometimes I wonder if people just like to punk people here...teeth damage from headphones lol....I mean seriously


I'm still baffled how you would get that before suffering serious ear pain


----------



## ufospls2

Audiophile mouthguards with quantum tunneling acoustic tech (rebranded 99c hockey mouthguards)

New market perhaps?


----------



## Chianti

I am having a blast right now with my WA33 JPS Elite and a 20 year old Sennheiser HD 650. I have never heard the HD 650 with this much punch, precision, clarity, and stage width. The sound is extremely coherent and well balanced.

The WA33 may present a good counter point to the common advice on $ investment ratios source (DAC) : amplifier : headphone?
I would not go as far as saying all headphones sound equally great, but like in this example the combo of expensive amp (WA33) and budget headphone is highly competitive with what you can get by buying a TOTL headphone and a lesser amp ...

Configuration note: HD 650 is one of these examples where switching to a balanced cable with the WA33 makes a huge difference (I was curious and lazy and tried single ended first - no go after 5 minutes). Some payoff as well switching the rectifier back from Takatsuki to KR HP 274 (with KR HP 2A3s) - the Takatsuki did not pair well especially with the HD650.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Chianti said:


> I am having a blast right now with my WA33 JPS Elite and a 20 year old Sennheiser HD 650. I have never heard the HD 650 with this much punch, precision, clarity, and stage width. The sound is extremely coherent and well balanced.
> 
> The WA33 may present a good counter point to the common advice on $ investment ratios source (DAC) : amplifier : headphone?
> I would not go as far as saying all headphones sound equally great, but like in this example the combo of expensive amp (WA33) and budget headphone is highly competitive with what you can get by buying a TOTL headphone and a lesser amp ...
> ...


I love the HD800s off the WA33 too. It just makes all headphones sound their best


----------



## Vindication

I made my entire purchasing decision of the WA33 off a HD800s demo…..Does take that headphone to another level.


----------



## joseph69

Ciggavelli said:


> It just makes all headphones sound their best


Agreed


----------



## Roasty

After several weeks, I've finally gotten the WE417a driver tubes up and running!

Received 4 adaptors from Deyan, but unfortunately 1 was not working properly. Deyan promptly sent out a replacement, but that one was dead on arrival (tube refused to light up and work). So another replacement was sent out. thankfully, it is third time lucky!

it was quite a weird situation for both of us to be in.. but kudos to Deyan for being so quick with replies, helpful, and willing to make things right.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Roasty said:


> After several weeks, I've finally gotten the WE417a driver tubes up and running!
> 
> Received 4 adaptors from Deyan, but unfortunately 1 was not working properly. Deyan promptly sent out a replacement, but that one was dead on arrival (tube refused to light up and work). So another replacement was sent out. thankfully, it is third time lucky!
> 
> it was quite a weird situation for both of us to be in.. but kudos to Deyan for being so quick with replies, helpful, and willing to make things right.



What do you think @Roasty? I like them a lot. To my ear, with the all KR tubes, they add a bit more treble than the EH gold pins - and the tonal balance really falls into place. Also, I get crazy long decays and reverb with them. Best example is off Dire Straits Brothers in Arms - Why Worry, and Your Latest Trick.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Chianti said:


> I am having a blast right now with my WA33 JPS Elite and a 20 year old Sennheiser HD 650. I have never heard the HD 650 with this much punch, precision, clarity, and stage width. The sound is extremely coherent and well balanced.
> 
> The WA33 may present a good counter point to the common advice on $ investment ratios source (DAC) : amplifier : headphone?
> I would not go as far as saying all headphones sound equally great, but like in this example the combo of expensive amp (WA33) and budget headphone is highly competitive with what you can get by buying a TOTL headphone and a lesser amp ...
> ...



I think the Wa33 is that good - but, I also think that the HD600 / 650 punch well above their weight, in general. They are the greatest bargain in headphones.


----------



## Roasty

Drewligarchy said:


> What do you think @Roasty? I like them a lot. To my ear, with the all KR tubes, they add a bit more treble than the EH gold pins - and the tonal balance really falls into place. Also, I get crazy long decays and reverb with them. Best example is off Dire Straits Brothers in Arms - Why Worry, and Your Latest Trick.



I like them. haven't had them running for very long, but what I'm hearing so far is the highs sound really "sweet", and the low end has less bloom and is tighter and more detailed, compared to the EH gold pins.


----------



## jlbrach

Roasty said:


> After several weeks, I've finally gotten the WE417a driver tubes up and running!
> 
> Received 4 adaptors from Deyan, but unfortunately 1 was not working properly. Deyan promptly sent out a replacement, but that one was dead on arrival (tube refused to light up and work). So another replacement was sent out. thankfully, it is third time lucky!
> 
> it was quite a weird situation for both of us to be in.. but kudos to Deyan for being so quick with replies, helpful, and willing to make things right.


impressive picture, so sharp looks like I could reach out and touch it


----------



## Roasty

those with the we417a drivers..
is the startup quite noisy for u guys?  I'm getting a fair bit of rustle/static and pops, which goes away after it warms up enough. a bit hesitant when my headphones are connected to the wa33, so I turn the amp on in preamp mode and have to wait a couple of minutes before switching to headamp mode.


----------



## pippen99

Mine are quiet.  I always let my amp warmup at least for 10 minutes before listening.  For this warmup period I have a sacrificial $15 pair of junk plugged into the SE outlet.  Only after this period do I connect the good headphones to the amp.


----------



## Chianti

Roasty said:


> those with the we417a drivers..
> is the startup quite noisy for u guys?  I'm getting a fair bit of rustle/static and pops, which goes away after it warms up enough. a bit hesitant when my headphones are connected to the wa33, so I turn the amp on in preamp mode and have to wait a couple of minutes before switching to headamp mode.


My WE417a are silent (* in a good way; of course you could argue they amplify and conduct the music that goes through them ...) right after switching on the WA33. I ran them all through my tube tester and they all tested good. Purchased the set with adapters directly from Wooaudio.

I can highly, strongly, absolutely recommend the WE417a with the WA33. I love them, cherish them, and endorse them. They are great.
There.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Roasty said:


> those with the we417a drivers..
> is the startup quite noisy for u guys?  I'm getting a fair bit of rustle/static and pops, which goes away after it warms up enough. a bit hesitant when my headphones are connected to the wa33, so I turn the amp on in preamp mode and have to wait a couple of minutes before switching to headamp mode.



Vey slightly noisy on startup. I too use a sacrificial pair of headphones like @pippen99 on startup. I don’t get any noise with the Abyss or Susvara with the volume pot completely open - but get some background noise at about 1 o’clock with more sensitive headphones. Noise has seemed to decrease with use.


----------



## Chianti

Regarding we417a - whether it's worth it. I was highly skeptical how much of a difference those little thingies would make. I mostly bought them out of curiosity.

Couldn't have been more wrong. They are as important, if not more so, as the other tubes in the set.
I would almost say that this is a "mandatory" upgrade especially if you are already paying the $7.5k-9.5k difference for the Elite, Elite JPS upgrades, plus KR-HP or KR-HP-HQ 2A3s, KR or Taka 274B.

I know that the prices for all of that stuff are much higher than what I want them to be.
On the other hand, I have not heard an amp that sounds as good or better for less money ... even throughout burn-in and then different tube upgrades the WA33 has transformed and plays now one level higher than the out-of-the box amplifier I received in November.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Chianti said:


> Regarding we417a - whether it's worth it. I was highly skeptical how much of a difference those little thingies would make. I mostly bought them out of curiosity.
> 
> Couldn't have been more wrong. They are as important, if not more so, as the other tubes in the set.
> I would almost say that this is a "mandatory" upgrade especially if you are already paying the $7.5k-9.5k difference for the Elite, Elite JPS upgrades, plus KR-HP or KR-HP-HQ 2A3s, KR or Taka 274B.
> ...



I agree. I can’t possible imagine a better pairing for the Abyss then the KR 2a3s, KR 274B and the we417as. There is a big difference with the we417as vs the EH Gold Pins in this setup. Both have this great midrange, but the we417as are faster and have better treble and bass extension. I’ve mentioned this before, but these tubes were the first time I really noticed longer decays making the whole sound more spacious and liquid. It’s a great setup.


----------



## audiofest2018

I too have WE417a with WE422a as rectifier and KR 2A3 tubes on my WA33 amp. Love the synergy of this combo.   Now I wonder if Woo will consider making adapter for WE equivalent 2A3 tubes to be used in WA33?


----------



## ThanatosVI

audiofest2018 said:


> I too have WE417a with WE422a as rectifier and KR 2A3 tubes on my WA33 amp. Love the synergy of this combo.   Now I wonder if Woo will consider making adapter for WE equivalent 2A3 tubes to be used in WA33?


Can't you use WE equivalent 2A3 tubes from the get go?

Unless you mean 300B, that won't work with a simple adapter


----------



## audiofest2018

Sorry that I should be more clean on my post. I can use WE equivalent 2A3 tubes with purchased adapters  However just want to be sure I don't end up damage my unit while manufacture warranty won't cover the repair.  I do have 300B 2.5V version from EML.


----------



## ThanatosVI

audiofest2018 said:


> Sorry that I should be more clean on my post. I can use WE equivalent 2A3 tubes with purchased adapters  However just want to be sure I don't end up damage my unit while manufacture warranty won't cover the repair.  I do have 300B 2.5V version from EML.


Can you link me the WE equivalent 2A3 tubes?
I still do not understand why they require adapters.


----------



## audiofest2018

@ThanatosVI you are correct！I should pay attention to their pin configuration and data sheet more carefully before jump into conclusion that they need adapters.  Both have the identical pins and data sheet seems to suggest that I might be able to use them.  Thanks!


----------



## Drewligarchy

audiofest2018 said:


> I too have WE417a with WE422a as rectifier and KR 2A3 tubes on my WA33 amp. Love the synergy of this combo.   Now I wonder if Woo will consider making adapter for WE equivalent 2A3 tubes to be used in WA33?



Have you tried the KR 274B or other rectifiers? If so, I'm curious how it compares to the WE422a. I need new, expensive tubes like a hole in the head, but I know that's supposed to be the best of the best.


----------



## Chianti

For me KR 274B-HP complements the KR 2A3 HP better than the Takatsuki 274B - which in turn work better with the Takatsuki 300B (in the 3ES, obviously not WA33 ...)


----------



## audiofest2018

I have tried several different rectifier tubes such s WE422A, WE274B, USAF 596, BVA Cossor 53KU, Mullard CV575 and Taka 274B when I was really into tube rolling.  Not much these days now as it is an endless $$ hole...LOL

My general impression is that while I may "hear" (as some people may disagree base on the design, they don't believe rectifier tube should have any impact on sound quality) sound signature difference using different rectifier tubes, the difference is small compared to rolling power/driver tubes.  

BUT if you pair them well with the combo of power/driver tube you choose, you will definitely bring the best out of the sound quality from my personal opinion.  For example, WE422A bring out the best of bass while maintains good treble. If you are for bass "slam" then 422A is the one.  If you are more into details, sound stage image then perhaps I would recommend 274B tube.  TAKA and WE 274B from my ears are not identical and I prefer TAKA when listen to female vocal while WE 274B might be better for me on classical string works.  In general British tube to me are more mellow so to me it is alright to my taste.  USAF seems a bit sharp on presenting music note perhaps?

These are my impression from a while back from my memories so hopefully they are still accurate. These days I am more settled to WE422A rectifier tube because I like its overall presentation and it match KR 2A3 really well.  I do change rectifier tube occasionally from time to time as I need to make the justification of my investment worthy.   But my go to tube is WE422A

Hope this helps.


----------



## pippen99

My rank for the rectifiers I have used:1) Takatsuki 274B
                                                            2) KR 274B
                                                            3) WE 422a
                                                            4) 5U3C-stock rectifier could be Svetlana, Sovtek or EH?
                                                            5) USAF 596-awaiting adaptor so unrated

Even though my first Tak fried itself at 13 months there was a sufficient difference between the KR, WE and the Tak to buy another Tak.  Approximately 6 months on this one and so far so good.


----------



## Chianti

Roasty said:


> those with the we417a drivers..
> is the startup quite noisy for u guys?  I'm getting a fair bit of rustle/static and pops, which goes away after it warms up enough. a bit hesitant when my headphones are connected to the wa33, so I turn the amp on in preamp mode and have to wait a couple of minutes before switching to headamp mode.


Brief update - just in case you are wondering if your tubes and amp are working as designed - with we We417a tubes I am hearing an increased slight hum (all the time, not just after startup) with more sensitive headphones, e.g. Sony MDR-Z1R. It's not ideal but tolerable. Not audible with Susvara, Stealth, ...


----------



## Ciggavelli

pippen99 said:


> My rank for the rectifiers I have used:1) Takatsuki 274B
> 2) KR 274B
> 3) WE 422a
> 4) 5U3C-stock rectifier could be Svetlana, Sovtek or EH?
> ...


I really like the Tak 274b too.  I even have a backup one for when my current one fries.  I know some people find the Tak bright or too forward, but it doesn't bother me.  I pretty much like all of the Tak tubes.  I have another Tak 274b in my 3ES Elite, with a quad set of Tak 300Bs as well.  The only problem with Tak tubes is that they are super expensive.  The 3ES elite is cheaper than the WA33 Elite, but when you add those Tak Tubes to the 3ES, that's like a $5.5K addition (not to mention the other 2 driver tubes).


----------



## Drewligarchy (Jan 21, 2022)

Ciggavelli said:


> I really like the Tak 274b too.  I even have a backup one for when my current one fries.  I know some people find the Tak bright or too forward, but it doesn't bother me.  I pretty much like all of the Tak tubes.  I have another Tak 274b in my 3ES Elite, with a quad set of Tak 300Bs as well.  The only problem with Tak tubes is that they are super expensive.  The 3ES elite is cheaper than the WA33 Elite, but when you add those Tak Tubes to the 3ES, that's like a $5.5K addition (not to mention the other 2 driver tubes).



It's a great rectifier. Between Tak and KR 274B, I don't think one is better - they just seem to better synergize with certain headphones/configuration. They both seem a step up from my other rectifiers (USAF 596, EML 5U4G, and stock.) I especially like the Tak with the Audeze LCD 4 and Stock Abyss. KR with LCD 5 and Abyss with SC.


----------



## Roasty

never thought I'd say this, but feels like there is a bit too much bass with we417a drivers + eml 300b 2.5v. 

the we417a + KR 2a3 seem to be a better match.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Roasty said:


> never thought I'd say this, but feels like there is a bit too much bass with we417a drivers + eml 300b 2.5v.
> 
> the we417a + KR 2a3 seem to be a better match.


Good tube quality confirmed 😎


----------



## Roasty

lots of pricey rectifiers mentioned recently. threw in this cheap new production Mullard GZ34 into the wa33 and it sounds pretty good. very tight clean bass and clear mids. 

good for when u wanna run in other tubes in the amp, but don't wanna use up your pricier rectifiers.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Roasty said:


> lots of pricey rectifiers mentioned recently. threw in this cheap new production Mullard GZ34 into the wa33 and it sounds pretty good. very tight clean bass and clear mids.
> 
> good for when u wanna run in other tubes in the amp, but don't wanna use up your pricier rectifiers.



Mullards are pretty much bulletproof from what I’ve heard. That’s good to know, Roasty.


----------



## Roasty

at a major crossroad recently.. 
contemplating selling the wa33 jps edition and downsizing to an enleum/ferrum stack. 

kept the wa33 as it is a fantastic pairing with the Utopia, but recently am using the Utopia (and all my other hps) with the tube pre/power amp combo more, so much so the wa33 seems redundant. aside from the utopia, my sus, TC and solP all sound better to me on my pre/power combo. 

since I already have the tube setup, thought maybe a SS amp like the enleum/ferrum stack would be a good complement. 

am pretty sure the wa33 will be a hard sell, but just sharing my thoughts.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Roasty said:


> at a major crossroad recently..
> contemplating selling the wa33 jps edition and downsizing to an enleum/ferrum stack.
> 
> kept the wa33 as it is a fantastic pairing with the Utopia, but recently am using the Utopia (and all my other hps) with the tube pre/power amp combo more, so much so the wa33 seems redundant. aside from the utopia, my sus, TC and solP all sound better to me on my pre/power combo.
> ...


I’m not sure it will be a hard sell, but I guess finding somebody local would be more difficult. The shipping to different parts of the world would get pretty expensive pretty fast


----------



## ThanatosVI

Roasty said:


> at a major crossroad recently..
> contemplating selling the wa33 jps edition and downsizing to an enleum/ferrum stack.
> 
> kept the wa33 as it is a fantastic pairing with the Utopia, but recently am using the Utopia (and all my other hps) with the tube pre/power amp combo more, so much so the wa33 seems redundant. aside from the utopia, my sus, TC and solP all sound better to me on my pre/power combo.
> ...


You think about this for a while now. 
I still have a feeling you might regret letting go of the Wa33 at some point.

The only obstacle to selling it are likely shipping costs, however the demand for used Wa33 is there, you hardly see any for long.
Hell I know I've been looking for a black unit from europe for a while now.(luckily I never found one, since it really doesn't make much sense in addition to the Octave - just the addiction that wants one...)

Also why add the enleum/Ferrum stack, can't you use your power amp with a SS pre like the Wavelight?
To me it seems like a desire to change and not to fill any missing gaps.


----------



## Roasty

ThanatosVI said:


> Also why add the enleum/Ferrum stack, can't you use your power amp with a SS pre like the Wavelight?



I've tried the wavelight as a pre to my power amps but always seem to prefer the sound I get from a dedicated pre. 

will mull over it for while and do some tube swaps over the weekend and see if the wa33 stays or not..


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## Drewligarchy (Jan 26, 2022)

Roasty said:


> at a major crossroad recently..
> contemplating selling the wa33 jps edition and downsizing to an enleum/ferrum stack.
> 
> kept the wa33 as it is a fantastic pairing with the Utopia, but recently am using the Utopia (and all my other hps) with the tube pre/power amp combo more, so much so the wa33 seems redundant. aside from the utopia, my sus, TC and solP all sound better to me on my pre/power combo.
> ...



I concur on it not being a hard sell. It takes time to be built, and the price just went up. Doesn't mean you won't lose money on it - you almost definitely will. But, you'll get a decent return for a used piece of gear - just like you would with any other sought after piece of gear.

For me, I can't sell it because It's, IMO opinion, the best pairing there is with the Abyss TC. It's my favorite headphone and what I listen to the most - so no chance I would sell. I know you don't use if with it that much (I think), so makes things different. I have yet to try the Utopia with the Wa33, and am intrigued by that combo because of people like you and others on this thread @joseph69 and @Ciggavelli in particular. I have the Enleum 23r, which I think is a great solid state amp - but I don't like it as much as the Wa33 overall. I haven't listened to the Ferrum stack. That said, put a tube pre in front of it - and perhaps that changes things - I haven't tried yet.

Only you can determine if it's still valuable enough to you to keep - or you want to cash out and/or get something else. This would be my litmus test (same as mine), if Utopia is one of your favorite headphones - and you can't get that sound elsewhere - I'd hold onto it. If you can get it close, then maybe consider selling. I can't get anything to sound remotely like the Wa33 and TC.

For me, I would have to find a better pairing with the TC. If I did, I would consider selling. If I don't, then I wouldn't. The Abyss is good out of the Enleum but otherworldy out of the Wa33. So much so that it basically makes the headphone for me. The Utopia is obviously a lot easier to drive, but I don't know that you will or won't get better synergy. I never liked the Utopia out of my solid state amps; I bought and returned it once - and borrowed from the cable company a couple times before I had the Wa33. It was always too fatiguing for me. Many don't have this issue - but I imagine the Utopia and Wa33 is a special combo.

I would try and arrange demos with the amps you are considering. In the US at least, you get a 45 day trial with the Enleum when you buy (not sure if it's like that in Singapore). I would try and obtain demos for the amps you are considering, and listen to one headphone and amp each night over the course of a week or two. I wouldn't switch out and A/B heaphones and amp each night - when I do this I end up not listening for enjoyment but just analyze differences. After this period, you can make a well informed decision on what you are willing to change / give up, based on what you hear. Moreover, you won't have the regret you might have otherwise - because you've truly compared them.


----------



## Roasty

@Drewligarchy perhaps because yours is the EE, and mine is the standard. the TC sounds good on my WA33, but it is definitely bested by the dedicated tube pre/power amp setup. 

I've tried the ferrum stack with the TC and it was really quite fantastic. but I feel it doesn't do the susvara justice though... so some hesitation there. I've not had the chance to try the Enleum.


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## Drewligarchy (Jan 26, 2022)

Roasty said:


> @Drewligarchy perhaps because yours is the EE, and mine is the standard. the TC sounds good on my WA33, but it is definitely bested by the dedicated tube pre/power amp setup.
> 
> I've tried the ferrum stack with the TC and it was really quite fantastic. but I feel it doesn't do the susvara justice though... so some hesitation there. I've not had the chance to try the Enleum.



It's possible, but I also thought it was the best pairing I've ever heard on my Wa33 SE as well, until I got the EE. I think it's more likely that we appreciate different things out of the TC, or you've been able to best it with a solid state and tube pre. I like the Wa33 with the Abyss because it transforms the mid range and enhances the spacial characteristics while keeping the slam and dynamics for the most part. I imagine if you pair it with a good solid state (and what I experience with the 23r and previously the Formula S and Powerman to some extent), it maximizes slam and dynamics, but I lose a little of the magic in the midrange, and it sounds more 1 dimensional to me. The 23r has better midrange than the Formula S, in my opinion - but neither can do what tubes do. If you are using a solid state with a tube pre, all bets are off - I can imagine it sounding quite good. But for the sound profile I like, I feel that the Wa33 works exceptionally well - because you get the midrange magic, with tons of power. Midrange is almost SET like, especially with the EE. But you get extension on the top and bottom because of the power - and because it's push pull, you get amazing clarity and transparency. Thus I think there are great advantages to tubes with headphones, because by their very nature, they need less power to perform at their best than speakers. It's going to be really hard to get a DHT amp for speakers and get the combination of midrange and dynamics you get with a headphone amp. I would love to try your solid state + tube pre setup with the TC, but alas, it would cost more to get to you than to just buy it myself 

Also, I would try the Enleum. It's a fantastic match with the Susvara. I think, probably because of how laid back the Susvara is, it works best with SS. The Enleum is liquid and still has a hint of tubeyness, while retaining all the characteristics of a powerful solid state amp.


----------



## joseph69

@Roasty 
Dont do what I did and make the mistake of selling your WA33, only to miss it and buy another one, unless you're 100% sure and are going to enjoy something more in its place. Also, doubt it'll be a hard sale, at all, especially with price increases for the new Woo amps.


----------



## Roasty

Drewligarchy said:


> It's possible, but I also thought it was the best pairing I've ever heard on my Wa33 SE as well, until I got the EE. I think it's more likely that we appreciate different things out of the TC, or you've been able to best it with a solid state and tube pre. I like the Wa33 with the Abyss because it transforms the mid range and enhances the spacial characteristics while keeping the slam and dynamics for the most part. I imagine if you pair it with a good solid state (and what I experience with the 23r and previously the Formula S and Powerman to some extent), it maximizes slam and dynamics, but I lose a little of the magic in the midrange, and it sounds more 1 dimensional to me. The 23r has better midrange than the Formula S, in my opinion - but neither can do what tubes do. If you are using a solid state with a tube pre, all bets are off - I can imagine it sounding quite good. But for the sound profile I like, I feel that the Wa33 works exceptionally well - because you get the midrange magic, with tons of power. Midrange is almost SET like, especially with the EE. But you get extension on the top and bottom because of the power - and because it's push pull, you get amazing clarity and transparency. Thus I think there are great advantages to tubes with headphones, because by their very nature, they need less power to perform at their best than speakers. It's going to be really hard to get a DHT amp for speakers and get the combination of midrange and dynamics you get with a headphone amp. I would love to try your solid state + tube pre setup with the TC, but alas, it would cost more to get to you than to just buy it myself
> 
> Also, I would try the Enleum. It's a fantastic match with the Susvara. I think, probably because of how laid back the Susvara is, it works best with SS. The Enleum is liquid and still has a hint of tubeyness, while retaining all the characteristics of a powerful solid state amp.



Thanks for the input man. much appreciated! I really wish I could try a wa33 EE, and also for u to try my tube pre/power amp combo. perhaps when the stars align. the enleum is indeed quite tempting; all the reviews I seen so far deem it very musical and a great pairing with the Susvara.


----------



## Lucky87

Roasty said:


> Thanks for the input man. much appreciated! I really wish I could try a wa33 EE, and also for u to try my tube pre/power amp combo. perhaps when the stars align. the enleum is indeed quite tempting; all the reviews I seen so far deem it very musical and a great pairing with the Susvara.


The only amp that bested the WA33 EE upgraded KR HP tubes with the only the Utopia was the DCs Batok with it’s headphone amp section which sounded the very best I have heard. But with my other headphones Susvara, TC, Z1R, Arya, HD800 it sounded to analytical. So I brought my WA33 EE and just not a good pairing for my taste. But with my setup the Utopia sounds great but not better than the Susvara or TC so they never received anymore play time so they got sold. Not sure what tubes you are using but I like what I have now and no plans on changing it. Good luck


----------



## Drewligarchy

joseph69 said:


> @Roasty
> Dont do what I did and make the mistake of selling your WA33, only to miss it and buy another one, unless you're 100% sure and are going to enjoy something more in its place. Also, doubt it'll be a hard sale, at all, especially with price increases for the new Woo amps.



Speaking of selling things you regret. I just sold my Violectric v281, which is the piece of gear I've had the longest. I don't even listen to it anymore - and in fact - had it stored in my audio closet away from my existing gear. It sold instantly, for exactly how much I wanted - and I still have slight pangs of regret. I spent so much time with that amp, and really enjoyed it for a number of years. It's amazing how sentimentally attached you can grow to a piece of gear.


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## Drewligarchy (Jan 29, 2022)

Lucky87 said:


> The only amp that bested the WA33 EE upgraded KR HP tubes with the only the Utopia was the DCs Batok with it’s headphone amp section which sounded the very best I have heard. But with my other headphones Susvara, TC, Z1R, Arya, HD800 it sounded to analytical. So I brought my WA33 EE and just not a good pairing for my taste. But with my setup the Utopia sounds great but not better than the Susvara or TC so they never received anymore play time so they got sold. Not sure what tubes you are using but I like what I have now and no plans on changing it. Good luck



Hey Lucky - I was seriously considering the Bartok to replace my Dave/Mscaler, but never pursued it after I got the EE because the Dave was a really good match. You have me slightly intrigued though. How would you describe the headphone out on the Bartok - and the character of the DAC - especially with the EE? I don't remember if you've had or heard the Dave, so would love to hear how it compares.

Further, I am interested in picking up a Sennheiser HD 800s, 800, or 600 series. Mainly because I've read they synergize really well with tubes. I bought and returned the original 800 many years ago, because I found it slightly fatiguing on solid state, and I had a Stax 009 at the time and I felt they were too close. I have always slightly regretted getting rid of it so quickly and not giving it more of a chance.

My question is - there is a lot of talk in the thread about how good the 800 is with the Wa33. Does this apply to the 800s as well (I never listened to that version)? If you want an original 800, it seems like you have to go used - where the 800s can be gotten easily new at close to the same cost.

While not in the same price category also interested in the 600, 650, and 660 just to mess around with. I know they are much more inexpensive, but I had a 600 in the past and know how good it is for the price. I had never tried the 600 on tubes, so interested in how this series sounds out of the Wa33 - especially the 660 as some say it combines the best of the 600 and 650.


----------



## audiofest2018

Drewligarchy said:


> Hey Lucky - I was seriously considering the Bartok to replace my Dave/Mscaler, but never pursued it after I got the EE because the Dave was a really good match. You have me slightly intrigued though. How would you describe the headphone out on the Bartok - and the character of the DAC - especially with the EE? I don't remember if you've had or heard the Dave, so would love to hear how it compares.
> 
> Further, I am interested in picking up a Sennheiser HD 800s, 800, or 600 series. Mainly because I've read they synergize really well with tubes. I bought and returned the original 800 many years ago, because I found it slightly fatiguing on solid state, and I had a Stax 009 at the time and I felt they were too close. I have always slightly regretted getting rid of it so quickly and not giving it more of a chance.
> 
> ...


I currently have a pair of Sennheiser HD800 which is my very first purchase of high end HP.  I know most people feel like with its great detail sound resolution it lacks solid bass and its treble tend to be on the bright side and can cause listening fatigue.  When I first have it I paired it with Bryston DAC along with PASS HPA-1 amp ( all SS through the chain) which I now think is not a great pairing to HD800.  However HD800 sound the best with tube amp to my personal taste and opinion and don't think HD800 get its justice unless you use tube amp or tub-amp sound like SS amp such as Gs-X Mini.  This is especially the case when I listen to HD800 with my WA33 EE and Holo May DAC.  The bass is night and day compared to HPA-1.  The treble sounds sweeter and more natural.  However still I don't think it can match Utopia on overall performance level.  Perhaps I'll give an edge to HD800 for its detail resolution but not much.  That is the reason no I don't use HD800 that much anymore.  

Speaking about sentimental attachment to a gear, till today I won't sell my HD800 even if I end not using it for the rest of my life!   It is my very first high ed gear!  i can't let it go!


----------



## Roasty

Drewligarchy said:


> While not in the same price category also interested in the 600, 650, and 660 just to mess around with. I know they are much more inexpensive, but I had a 600 in the past and know how good it is for the price. I had never tried the 600 on tubes, so interested in how this series sounds out of the Wa33 - especially the 660 as some say it combines the best of the 600 and 650.



I have the 650, and had the 660. preferred the 650, as I felt the 660 was a bit grainy and harsh up top and lacked some low end, whereas the 650 had a more balanced presentation. it was TOTL in its heyday.. but it won't be able to keep up with the current TOTL headphones. I got my 650 for cheap (around usd270 new) and for the price, it is a decent occasional listen, if anything, to show how much better the current stuff is.


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## joseph69

audiofest2018 said:


> However still I don't think it can match Utopia on overall performance level.


I owned the HD800 2x and sold it both times due to never listening to it because of the Utopia & HE1Kv2 and this was with the WA33.


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## joseph69

Drewligarchy said:


> Speaking of selling things you regret. I just sold my Violectric v281, which is the piece of gear I've had the longest. I don't even listen to it anymore - and in fact - had it stored in my audio closet away from my existing gear. It sold instantly, for exactly how much I wanted - and I still have slight pangs of regret. I spent so much time with that amp, and really enjoyed it for a number of years. It's amazing how sentimentally attached you can grow to a piece of gear.


Had a HeadAmp GS-1 w/DACT & Dynalo+ modules stored away in my closet due to exploring with other amps, I decided to sell it because I wasn't using it and it was a mistake because of its excellent sound and small footprint. Should've just forgotten about it and left in the closet.


----------



## dirtrat

I was curious how the STANDARD edition of the WA33 compares to other brands that sell in its price range. Certainly, there are many options available for $8500.00. It obvious from the posts here the upgrades (JPS and Elite) make a big difference in the sound quality but if you get both that more than doubles the price of the amplifier which seems excessive to me. Is it really worth that extra money? I know this is all relative. I'll be at CamJam next month and I plan on doing some listening of this model.


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## ThanatosVI

dirtrat said:


> I was curious how the STANDARD edition of the WA33 compares to other brands that sell in its price range. Certainly, there are many options available for $8500.00. It obvious from the posts here the upgrades (JPS and Elite) make a big difference in the sound quality but if you get both that more than doubles the price of the amplifier which seems excessive to me. Is it really worth that extra money? I know this is all relative. I'll be at CamJam next month and I plan on doing some listening of this model.


The Standard Version is also great already, certainly competitive at the price point!
If your Budget doesnt allow for more, you can't go wrong with the Standard Edition.

And if you still want to upgrade to Elite Edition later, that is always an option


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## Ciggavelli

Drewligarchy said:


> Hey Lucky - I was seriously considering the Bartok to replace my Dave/Mscaler, but never pursued it after I got the EE because the Dave was a really good match. You have me slightly intrigued though. How would you describe the headphone out on the Bartok - and the character of the DAC - especially with the EE? I don't remember if you've had or heard the Dave, so would love to hear how it compares.
> 
> Further, I am interested in picking up a Sennheiser HD 800s, 800, or 600 series. Mainly because I've read they synergize really well with tubes. I bought and returned the original 800 many years ago, because I found it slightly fatiguing on solid state, and I had a Stax 009 at the time and I felt they were too close. I have always slightly regretted getting rid of it so quickly and not giving it more of a chance.
> 
> ...


I use the HD 800 S with my WA33.  It sounds really good.  It's not competing with some other TOTL headphones, but I've never heard the HD 800 S sound so good


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## Rhodey (Feb 21, 2022)

Ciggavelli said:


> I use the HD 800 S with my WA33.  It sounds really good.  It's not competing with some other TOTL headphones, but I've never heard the HD 800 S sound so good


Yeah the HD800S sounds really good off the wa33. The other time I heard it sounded as good was off the DNA stratus. Both are great for senns imo. Only thing is the stratus couldn't push the hard to drive planars. And I love the susvara off the woo.


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## Drewligarchy (Jan 31, 2022)

dirtrat said:


> I was curious how the STANDARD edition of the WA33 compares to other brands that sell in its price range. Certainly, there are many options available for $8500.00. It obvious from the posts here the upgrades (JPS and Elite) make a big difference in the sound quality but if you get both that more than doubles the price of the amplifier which seems excessive to me. Is it really worth that extra money? I know this is all relative. I'll be at CamJam next month and I plan on doing some listening of this model.



I think the benefit proposition of the Wa33 is it’s tubes with power. You have DHTs in push pull and can use them with hard to drive planars and other headphones.

I haven’t listened to the DNA or the Auris or Ampsandsound, but most of their models don’t have the power that the Woo has. Some have 2a3s or 300b that allow for the direct heated triode flavor / and I believe one of the auris amps is as powerful as the Woo. I’m sure there are some really good amps in there, but only the auris (and maybe one of the ampsandsound) also has the power. I’d be interested in comparing, but unless I’m blown away (which would be hard because the Wa33 each of standard / elite / JPS are excellent) - I feel like it would be a side grade at best.

That’s really the litmus test. If you have hard to drive planars - it’s basically those two from a commercial production standpoint. If your phones are only Utopia and LCD 5 efficient, you could try a whole slew of  the amps above and determine which flavor you like the best. From what I’ve read they are all quality, well reviewed amps. That said, from personal experience, you can’t go wrong with the 33 standard or Elite / they are both great. If you decide on the 33, get whichever one your budget allows and you will, for sure, be happy.

Edit: For the sake of completeness I forgot to mention the Viva Egoista 845 & 2a3 as well as the Trafomatic Primavera - that, with the exception of the VE 2a3, are in the same power range as the Wa33, though I'd have to doublecheck (though still, I think, powerful enough for most anything you'd listen to.) I didn't really consider the Primavera because it's impossible to demo, and the VE 845, while easier to demo and while it reviewed very well, has some well documented issues of blowing drivers. I don't know if the issue has been fixed - but with the other choices available - it was enough for me to pass on this one.

Lastly, let's not forget Woo's own 234. @Torq doesn't really check head fi anymore, but owns and loves this amp - and I trust his ear. He has done lots of incredibly thorough reviews (he did the infamous DAC shootout, and later was Managing Editor at headphones dot com for a while). Interestingly, he is one of two people I've read that prefers the SE to the EE. I exchanged PMs with him on this before I bought the EE, and after having both - while I disagree - I completely understand why. Still, he also mentioned that for the Abyss and Susvara the EE could be better. This is a gross over simplification but the EE is a bit richer than the SE - and it was too much for him. So it really comes down to preference and headphones (and DAC, Dave works better with the EE IMO). Further, I don't believe he got to try the EE with upgraded tubes - which completely change the amp - allow you to dial up or dial down richness or incisiveness and I believe, increase the gap between the EE and the SE (in favor of the EE, mainly because you can get both qualities at the same time - which I think is the EE's greatest trick). Don't get me wrong, however, the SE is still a fantastic amp - and I could happily live with it if I couldn't splurge on the EE. That said, now that I have it I'm glad I do  I'd also mention that @isquirrel upgraded from the Wa33 Elite to the Wa234. He might be able to speak to the differences. Just be prepared if you see any pictures of his setup to drool. He's got the top MSB DAC as well as a few other pieces that are just out of this world - and his tube collection probably costs more than all my gear.

Anyhow, the fact that Mike generally recommends the Abyss with the 33 made this an easy choice for me, though I've never demoed the 234 and sure it's spectacular. It certainly has enough power for anything as well.

There are other amps, such as Eddie Current's line, that I'm not including because they aren't in production any longer.

TL;DR - the various incarnations of the Wa33 are both  the most powerful tube headphone amplifiers you can get, and are relatively easy to get a demo in. They are both fantastic amps, so I didn't feel the need to hunt down some of the more esoteric DHT headphone amps because they either lacked power or were difficult to demo.


----------



## joseph69 (Jan 30, 2022)

dirtrat said:


> I was curious how the STANDARD edition of the WA33 compares to other brands that sell in its price range. Certainly, there are many options available for $8500.00. It obvious from the posts here the upgrades (JPS and Elite) make a big difference in the sound quality but if you get both that more than doubles the price of the amplifier which seems excessive to me. Is it really worth that extra money? I know this is all relative. I'll be at CamJam next month and I plan on doing some listening of this model.


I owned the WA33 (Standard Edition) w/upgraded tubes for +/-2yrs and made a huge mistake by selling it around September of '19. By November of '19 I missed it so that I wanted another. I could've bought any of the 4 iterations of the WA33, but already knowing how much I missed the sound of the SE, I was lucky enough to find a pre-owned in January of '20 and couldn't be happier with it.

Although I've never heard any of the other iterations, I have no desire to because I enjoy what I'm hearing already and I'd be a bit weary it would be more of a side grade (regardless of price difference) and I possibly wouldn't enjoy any other as much. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the SE WA33 whatsoever, so if it fits your budget, go for it and never mind what you _might_ be missing.


Drewligarchy said:


> I think the benefit proposition of the Wa33 is it’s tubes with power. You have DHTs in push pull and can use them with hard to drive planars and other headphones.
> 
> I haven’t listened to the DNA or the Auris or Ampsandsound, but most of their models don’t have the power that the Woo has. Some have 2a3s or 300b that allow for the direct heated triode flavor / and I believe one of the auris amps is as powerful as the Woo. I’m sure there are some really good amps in there, but only the auris (and maybe one of the ampsandsound) also has the power. I’d be interested in comparing, but unless I’m blown away (which would be hard because the Wa33 each of standard / elite / JPS are excellent) - I feel like it would be a side grade at best.
> 
> That’s really the litmus test. If you have hard to drive planars - it’s basically those two from a commercial production standpoint. If your phones are only Utopia and LCD 5 efficient, you could try a whole slew of  the amps above and determine which flavor you like the best. From what I’ve read they are all quality, well reviewed amps. That said, from personal experience, you can’t go wrong with the 33 standard or Elite / they are both great. If you decide on the 33, get whichever one your budget allows and you will, for sure, be happy.


Very well said.


----------



## joseph69

PS: Might have been around March '20 that I bought the pre-owned...it was made in January of '20.


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## Lucky87 (Jan 30, 2022)

Drewligarchy said:


> Hey Lucky - I was seriously considering the Bartok to replace my Dave/Mscaler, but never pursued it after I got the EE because the Dave was a really good match. You have me slightly intrigued though. How would you describe the headphone out on the Bartok - and the character of the DAC - especially with the EE? I don't remember if you've had or heard the Dave, so would love to hear how it compares.
> 
> Further, I am interested in picking up a Sennheiser HD 800s, 800, or 600 series. Mainly because I've read they synergize really well with tubes. I bought and returned the original 800 many years ago, because I found it slightly fatiguing on solid state, and I had a Stax 009 at the time and I felt they were too close. I have always slightly regretted getting rid of it so quickly and not giving it more of a chance.
> 
> ...


Yeah I found our same combo with tubes for me is not a good match,I find it to hyper detailed and smoothed over and dry sound.

I too had the V281 which was fantastic with my Dave > HD800 & Empyreans. When I tried my other headphones with the Bartok the overall sound was not my taste. I find the headphone section of the Bartok to sound very close to the Benchmark HPA4 very detailed and build is outstanding but out of all my headphones only the HD800S sounded amazing with the HPA4, and for the Bartok my Utopia’s.
I want to revisit the Sennheiser line up from the 600 never tried, to the others I have owned at one time or another 650, 800,& 800s with my WA33 EE

I would like to try MSB line along with Holo May, and the Riviera AIC-10 this year.

Has anyone hear listened to both the WA33 ELITE and the Riviera AIC-10?


----------



## Drewligarchy

Lucky87 said:


> Has anyone hear listened to both the WA33 ELITE and the Riviera AIC-10?


@Ciggavelli has. He had the Riveira on loan after he sold his SE and while his EE JPS was being made.

I don’t want to speak for him, but he mentioned that it was very similar to the Wa33 SE - albeit a little more confused during busy passages, and he prefer the EE JPS to both. Cig, sorry if I got any of this wrong.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Drewligarchy said:


> @Ciggavelli has. He had the Riveira on loan after he sold his SE and while his EE JPS was being made.
> 
> I don’t want to speak for him, but he mentioned that it was very similar to the Wa33 SE - albeit a little more confused during busy passages, and he prefer the EE JPS to both. Cig, sorry if I got any of this wrong.


You are 100% right!  Yeah, Riviera felt muddy with very fast passages.  I was just using the stock tube.  Others have noted that the stock tub on the AIC-10 makes for a muddy sound with really fast songs.  @mammal said that if you change the stock AIC-10 tube it helps.  I don't have any firsthand experience with new tubes on the AIC-10 though.

I prefer the WA33 EE JPS for several reasons.  The soundstage is bigger, the layering is better, the dynamics are better, you can use many more tubes, it can be used as a pre-amp, etc.


----------



## innocentblood

has anybody had any experience using the dCS Bartok with the Woo Audio 3ES?


----------



## mammal

Ciggavelli said:


> You are 100% right! Yeah, Riviera felt muddy with very fast passages. I was just using the stock tube. Others have noted that the stock tub on the AIC-10 makes for a muddy sound with really fast songs. @mammal said that if you change the stock AIC-10 tube it helps. I don't have any firsthand experience with new tubes on the AIC-10 though.


I found AIC-10 respond very well to tubes, my findings are here.



Lucky87 said:


> Has anyone hear listened to both the WA33 ELITE and the Riviera AIC-10?


I was considering purchasing WA33 JPS EE, but was difficult to audition so instead tried Viva Egoista 845 and Riviera AIC-10. After realising how hot Viva runs, I decided not to pursue WA33 anymore. Riviera on the other hand runs very cool (only one tube inside after all).



Lucky87 said:


> I too had the V281 which was fantastic with my Dave > HD800 & Empyreans. When I tried my other headphones with the Bartok the overall sound was not my taste. I find the headphone section of the Bartok to sound very close to the Benchmark HPA4 very detailed and build is outstanding but out of all my headphones only the HD800S sounded amazing with the HPA4, and for the Bartok my Utopia’s.


I owned V281 with Hugo 2 and did not like the combination (was very dark), and HTT2 loaner sounded much better so I purchased it. I have only tried Dave in a show room and shop settings, never at home, so cannot comment. Neither tried HPA4, but found Bartok very good with Spirit Torino Valkyria for example, Utopia and to a degree also Susvara (did not feel underpowered, but Viva sounded better).


----------



## ThanatosVI

mammal said:


> I found AIC-10 respond very well to tubes, my findings are here.
> 
> 
> I was considering purchasing WA33 JPS EE, but was difficult to audition so instead tried Viva Egoista 845 and Riviera AIC-10. After realising how hot Viva runs, I decided not to pursue WA33 anymore. Riviera on the other hand runs very cool (only one tube inside after all).
> ...


Nice to see you active again


----------



## Drewligarchy

Lucky87 said:


> Yeah I found our same combo with tubes for me is not a good match,I find it to hyper detailed and smoothed over and dry sound.



This is interesting - this is why I like the Dave and EE so much: It's hyper detailed yet smooth. Just goes to show how we all appreciate different things in this hobby 

I also disliked the HPA4, though as it's so transparent, maybe it wasn't a good match with my Dave. I found the direct headphone out of the Dave much more liquid. The v281 retains the liquidity but isn't as transparent at the HPA4. That said, the HPA4, while incredibly transparent, I found a little grainy in comparison to Dave direct and the v281 - and certainly the Wa33.


----------



## mat.1

Amy recommendation for interconnect ? I am using shunyata alpha XLR v2 and don’t have synergy with WA 33 .


----------



## Darkliner

Check out https://highfidelitycables.com/
I am using interconnects by them, try one out within your budget.  They are fantastic with tube gear.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Feb 9, 2022)

Easy question: what are your favorite headphones with your version of the Wa33? I have said before that I don’t think there is a better pairing for the Abyss - but interested in what others feel have really good synergy, so that I might try some of those headphones - especially as can jam is coming up.

Especially interested in the Utopia. From demoing it - it seemed to have a sound signature reminiscent of the Abyss, and while I couldn’t get completely into it with my Violectric v281 or Dave direct, I feel like with the Wa33 it might just click. I know the HD 800 is well regarded as well, and I enjoyed it when I had a home demo - but it was too fatiguing out of solid state. I haven’t tried the HD800s though. Anyone using ZMF or Kennerton or the HeaddPhone? How about the Raal Sr1a with th Wa33 as a tube pre to the hsa1b.

While I think the Wa33 generally works great with all headphones, I think there are some really special pairings - and the Abyss is one of them. Looking for your thoughts on others, and perhaps, relevant tubes.


----------



## Roasty

Drewligarchy said:


> Easy question: what are your favorite headphones with your version of the Wa33? I have said before that I don’t think there is a better pairing for the Abyss - but interested in what others feel have really good synergy, so that I might try some of those headphones - especially as can jam is coming up.
> 
> Especially interested in the Utopia. From demoing it - it seemed to have a sound signature reminiscent of the Abyss, and while I couldn’t get completely into it with my Violectric v281 or Dave direct, I feel like with the Wa33 it might just click. I know the HD 800 is well regarded as well, and I enjoyed it when I had a home demo - but it was too fatiguing out of solid state. I haven’t tried the HD800s though. Anyone using ZMF or Kennerton or the HeaddPhone? How about the Raal Sr1a with th Wa33 as a tube pre to the hsa1b.
> 
> While I think the Wa33 generally works great with all headphones, I think there are some really special pairings - and the Abyss is one of them. Looking for your thoughts on others, and perhaps, relevant tubes.



I'll sound like a broken record..

- wa33 + utopia is my match made in heaven. 
- prefer TC with Milo Reference or musical paradise pre
- prefer Susvara with Primaluna/M7 combo 
- SolP sounds good on everything, but need to stick to 2a3 tubes on wa33 as the 300b 2.5v gives too much low end bloom and bloat on this hp

Also, Dave + wa33 + Utopia/SolP/Stellia/HD650 over straight Dave any day. 

on a side note, I'd recommend the we417a tubes easily. they're a nice upgrade to the EH gold pin drivers.


----------



## Lucky87

For me this is my best pairing with the Utopia 

1. dcS Bartok headphone amp balanced with Norne Audio custom 8 wire (only headphone I liked with Bartok)
2. WA33 EE upgraded KR HP tubes with Dave/MScaler Norne Audio custom 8 wire 
3. WA33 EE stock tubes & Tak 274B Dave/MScaler Norne Audio custom 8 wire 
4. Felix Euforia stock tubes  Dave/MScaler Norne Audio custom 8 wire


----------



## Roasty

Lucky87 said:


> For me this is my best pairing with the Utopia
> 
> 1. dcS Bartok headphone amp balanced with Norne Audio custom 8 wire (only headphone I liked with Bartok)
> 2. WA33 EE upgraded KR HP tubes with Dave/MScaler Norne Audio custom 8 wire
> ...



a bit OT 
but do u prefer Bartok hp out or Dave hp out? I have a loaner Dave now and it is quite good with the Utopia but seems missing a bit of dynamism. 
swap to the wa33 and all is right in the world again.


----------



## joseph69

Roasty said:


> - wa33 + utopia is my match made in heaven.


+1


----------



## Drewligarchy (Feb 10, 2022)

Roasty said:


> I'll sound like a broken record..
> 
> - wa33 + utopia is my match made in heaven.
> - prefer TC with Milo Reference or musical paradise pre
> ...



@Roasty - Valuable insight and apologies I've asked you about this 20 times.

For me, when previously having the Utopia the thing that turned me off was a slight grain in the mids / treble with certain SS amps. With the Dave direct, it was a little hot for me - but I was experiencing a lot of listening fatigue from other headphones back then so that may be the culprit.

I basically have all planars, because they seem grain free in comparison to the slight grain I get with dynamic drivers (experienced something similar with the original HD 800). I'm thinking the Wa33 will make the Utopia more liquid. Anyhow, maybe I'll just buy it from headphones.com and listen for a while. While I have never used the 365 day return policy, it's really nice to have. That said, I have got my hands a bit full with rotating between Abyss, LCD-5 and Susvara at the moment - especially since I've discovered the latters magic. I'm going to CanJam NYC at the end of the month - so maybe I'll have a chance to demo the Utopia on the Wa33 (or try something else that wows me).

I love the Clear off basically everything, and the Utopia was hit or miss depending on the track. Intellectually, I know what the Wa33 should do to the sound of the Utopia - and it should make it a perfect match. That said, without hearing it - it's hard to pull the trigger.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Feb 10, 2022)

Drewligarchy said:


> Easy question: what are your favorite headphones with your version of the Wa33? I have said before that I don’t think there is a better pairing for the Abyss - but interested in what others feel have really good synergy, so that I might try some of those headphones - especially as can jam is coming up.
> 
> Especially interested in the Utopia. From demoing it - it seemed to have a sound signature reminiscent of the Abyss, and while I couldn’t get completely into it with my Violectric v281 or Dave direct, I feel like with the Wa33 it might just click. I know the HD 800 is well regarded as well, and I enjoyed it when I had a home demo - but it was too fatiguing out of solid state. I haven’t tried the HD800s though. Anyone using ZMF or Kennerton or the HeaddPhone? How about the Raal Sr1a with th Wa33 as a tube pre to the hsa1b.
> 
> While I think the Wa33 generally works great with all headphones, I think there are some really special pairings - and the Abyss is one of them. Looking for your thoughts on others, and perhaps, relevant tubes.


I highly recommend using the WA33 as a pre to the HSA-1b and SR1as. It’s breathtaking. The bass is a bit better than solo HSA-1b. While SR1a bass could be better, everything else is pretty much on an A or A+ level. They are amazing headphones, and my 2nd or 3rd favorite headphones ever (behind the TCs and maybe tied with the Susvaras).

And yeah, the Utopia is a great match with the WA33 EE JPS. It’s very good.


----------



## Roasty

the we417a tubes continue to impress. I had too much bass bloat and bloom with the we417a and eml 300b 2.5v combo earlier on. but seems like the we417a have settled down and the combo is giving me a massive soundstage and immensely enjoyable bass. 






the we417a tubes were quite noisy at first. an annoying amount of rustling and static on startup. initially took around ten mins or so to completely quiet down for listening, but that warm up period has since reduced to almost zero ie I can start listening without rustling/static from the tubes once the wa33 gets itself ready.


----------



## Clive101

Roasty said:


> the we417a tubes continue to impress. I had too much bass bloat and bloom with the we417a and eml 300b 2.5v combo earlier on. but seems like the we417a have settled down and the combo is giving me a massive soundstage and immensely enjoyable bass.
> 
> 
> 
> the we417a tubes were quite noisy at first. an annoying amount of rustling and static on startup. initially took around ten mins or so to completely quiet down for listening, but that warm up period has since reduced to almost zero ie I can start listening without rustling/static from the tubes once the wa33 gets itself ready.


Nice Photo.
Did you get your WE 417a from Woo ?
I have one set from Woo and another set purchased elsewhere both are the JW version (military spec) and sound similar and no warmup needed.
What version do you have ?

Anyone using speakers with their Woo Wa33 and if so what type or suggestions ?


----------



## Roasty

Clive101 said:


> Nice Photo.
> Did you get your WE 417a from Woo ?
> I have one set from Woo and another set purchased elsewhere both are the JW version (military spec) and sound similar and no warmup needed.
> What version do you have ?
> ...



I got my we417a tubes from tubedepot and the adaptors from @Deyan. I'm not sure, but how do you tell which version they are?


----------



## Drewligarchy

Roasty said:


> the we417a tubes continue to impress. I had too much bass bloat and bloom with the we417a and eml 300b 2.5v combo earlier on. but seems like the we417a have settled down and the combo is giving me a massive soundstage and immensely enjoyable bass.
> 
> 
> 
> the we417a tubes were quite noisy at first. an annoying amount of rustling and static on startup. initially took around ten mins or so to completely quiet down for listening, but that warm up period has since reduced to almost zero ie I can start listening without rustling/static from the tubes once the wa33 gets itself ready.



Couldn't agree more - and I've found the same thing. Quieter and quieter over time. Does this mean you are keeping the 33?


----------



## Drewligarchy

Roasty said:


> I got my we417a tubes from tubedepot and the adaptors from @Deyan. I'm not sure, but how do you tell which version they are?



I think it's indicated directly on the tube if it's the JW version or a different version.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Ciggavelli said:


> I highly recommend using the WA33 as a pre to the HSA-1b and SR1as. It’s breathtaking. The bass is a bit better than solo HSA-1b. While SR1a bass could be better, everything else is pretty much on an A or A+ level. They are amazing headphones, and my 2nd or 3rd favorite headphones ever (behind the TCs and maybe tied with the Susvaras).
> 
> And yeah, the Utopia is a great match with the WA33 EE JPS. It’s very good.



an Sr1a/HSA-1b or a Utopia is my next purchase. Either that or something I hear at CanJam that blows me away. It would be nice if I could run the HSA-1b off the Wa33; I already have the Dave's XLRs going to the Wa33 and RCAs going to the Enleum 23r, and don't want to get a switcher box if I don't have to.


----------



## Roasty

Drewligarchy said:


> I think it's indicated directly on the tube if it's the JW version or a different version.



ah ok I just checked mine and it doesn't have JW on the tubes.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Roasty said:


> ah ok I just checked mine and it doesn't have JW on the tubes.



Yeah - the ones I got from Woo have JW on them.


----------



## Clive101

Both Sets of mine have the JW on them.
Often the military version is made to a different or tighter specification.
Woo Audio also match the tubes they sell on their own machine and is a more complex matching and measurement to get a better match presumably.
Jack mentioned he my post a video of the process, it would explain why the tubes are a little more expensive from Woo often they reject whole batches.
@HiFiGuy528 any news on this or information of speaker use with a WA33 ?


----------



## Drewligarchy

Clive101 said:


> Both Sets of mine have the JW on them.
> Often the military version is made to a different or tighter specification.
> Woo Audio also match the tubes they sell on their own machine and is a more complex matching and measurement to get a better match presumably.
> Jack mentioned he my post a video of the process, it would explain why the tubes are a little more expensive from Woo often they reject whole batches.
> @HiFiGuy528 any news on this or information of speaker use with a WA33 ?



Thanks Clive, and nice to see you back!


----------



## Roasty

@Clive101 thanks man didn't know there were variants on this tube. tubedepot did help to match mine, and I'm not hearing any obvious imbalance. very happy with the tubes and service. I have a friend who has the tubes from Woo. maybe will try and borrow them to see if there is a difference.


----------



## Clive101

@Drewligarchy been here all the time only post when I have something to add  thank you for you kind words.

@Roasty One set matched by Woo and One set matched on a pc controlled Hickok 118 B used by the US Military
The JW is a reference which is stamped on the tubes supplied to the US Military and as I am aware only sold to them.  

I have recently sent my DC4 in for the ARC6 upgrade.

Before I sent off, I tried DC4 Dave M-scaler straight to LCD4 vs Standard Dave (no M-scaler) to WA33 EE JPS to LCD4....

I only listened about 30 mins or so and initially preferred the Dave WA33 LCD4 although the DC4Dave M-scaler did grow on me towards the end of 30 mins. BUT I have tuned the WA33 with preferred sounding tubes which maybe why I prefer the straight DAVE Woo combination. 

When the ACR6 burns in I may revisit the comparison....more to follow.....


----------



## Roasty

those of u with 2a3 and 300b 2.5v tubes, do u find the wa33 unit runs much cooler with the 300b 2.5v tubes? 

they're barely warm to the touch with the 300b 2.5v. with the KR 2a3 tubes, the wa33 chassis is really really hot.


----------



## joseph69

Clive101 said:


> Both Sets of mine have the JW on them.


I purchased both, my WE 417A & adapters from Woo, but I need to look on the tubes to see if they're JW version. Is there any way to tell the production year as well being they're NOS?


----------



## joseph69

Just checked my WE drivers and they do indeed say JW on them. One thing that is throwing me off is that I ordered the WE 417A tubes, but my drivers say JW 5842 Western Electric. In the drop down window back when I made my purchase, the Raytheon was a 5842 (as currently shown) and the Western Electric were the 417A (as currently shown, but sold out).

From what I've read other manufacturers designated it as a 5842...not Western Electric. So I'm now wondering what brand I actually have regardless of saying Western Electric on them? Do anyone else's Western Electric 417A drivers say 5842 on them?


----------



## Roasty (Feb 14, 2022)

*
*

this is all I have on the tubes.





and the boxes they came in. all have "80" written, so I guess they helped to match/test?


----------



## joseph69

Roasty said:


> **
> 
> this is all I have on the tubes.
> 
> ...


Nothing to do with the sound, but I'm definitely not happy, at all, due to the premium I paid Woo to get what I opted for which was the WE 417A as you have in your hand! You purchased these from TubeDepot, correct? Is there someone else who can verify they've received the same tubes @Roasty is holding (WE-417A) in the photo above that were purchased from Woo Audio, I would really appreciate it? Below are the tubes I received from Woo along with their boxes which have no print on them anywhere.


----------



## joseph69

PS: Thank you very much @Roasty


----------



## Roasty

joseph69 said:


> Nothing to do with the sound, but I'm definitely not happy, at all, due to the premium I paid Woo to get what I opted for which was the WE 417A as you have in your hand! You purchased these from TubeDepot, correct? Is there someone else who can verify they've received the same tubes @Roasty is holding (WE-417A) in the photo above that were purchased from Woo Audio, I would really appreciate it? Below are the tubes I received from Woo along with their boxes which have no print on them anywhere.



well fwiw, your tube lettering is a gazillion times nicer than mine!!


----------



## Roasty

joseph69 said:


> Nothing to do with the sound, but I'm definitely not happy, at all, due to the premium I paid Woo to get what I opted for which was the WE 417A as you have in your hand! You purchased these from TubeDepot, correct? Is there someone else who can verify they've received the same tubes @Roasty is holding (WE-417A) in the photo above that were purchased from Woo Audio, I would really appreciate it? Below are the tubes I received from Woo along with their boxes which have no print on them anywhere.



i think you should be alright.. even the 417a picture on tubedepot has lettering the same as yours.


----------



## joseph69

Roasty said:


> well fwiw, your tube lettering is a gazillion times nicer than mine!!


The lettering on mine look too new for a NOS tube, so this is now a concern as well after seeing yours.


Roasty said:


> i think you should be alright.. even the 417a picture on tubedepot has lettering the same as yours.


The 5842 were less expensive, and as I mentioned, from what I've read other brands designated the 417A as a 5842...not Western Electric, so this is leading me to believe I paid the premium for another manufacturers 5842 tubes other than the Western Electric 417A tubes.


----------



## Clive101 (Feb 14, 2022)

Hang on a minute....

The JW 5842 and the 417A are the same tube one for retail and one for US military. But as I said before the JW has better spec....?

My packaging from Woo was new but from the other supplier was original as the flabs and paper is very fragile I will check tonight and upload some photos. 

Also @Roasty your measurement numbers, these being the 80 are in the same ball park as my JW version which are 77, 77 and 80, 80 so guess yours were measured on a similar machine. So we have two different versions of the same tube with the same measurements personally I do not think we have anything to be worried about.

As for a cost difference between the two different versions I doubt there is much if you were to take out the adaptors BUT you have to factor in the matching service Woo has done and the fact they work as intended and your not making a blind purchase if purchased from Woo.

Hope that helps and I have added some links, I see the RCA has both numbers on the packaging.

*EDIT Is it me or do the two different tubes look different internally.*

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_417a.html

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...4563545d15ab647878433a/1598382932535/417A.pdf

https://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2016/11/tube-of-month-417a.html


----------



## Roasty

@Clive101 as requested, for your reference. one of my tubes has a nice marking on it. the other three look like someone in primary school wrote on the tubes lol


----------



## chinyue (Feb 14, 2022)

One difference from @Roasty's WE417A pics is the top ring - one is circle and the other is square. I saw from somewhere people said 417A with square getters have better sound.


----------



## Roasty

chinyue said:


> One difference from @Roasty's WE417A pics is the top ring - one is circle and the other is square. I saw from somewhere people said 417A with square getters have better sound.



that's interesting. I never realized they were different! apparently I have one tube with a square, and three with circles.


----------



## joseph69

@Clive101 
From what I've reading, the 5842 were made by Amperex, RCA, Raytheon and possible other manufacturers.
The 417A was made by Western Electric, which is what I paid for. The price for a quad + adapters from Woo for the Raytheon 5842 drivers is $899.00 as shown below, and was a choice when I made my purchase. That is significantly less than what I paid for the WE 417A drivers + adapters...I paid close to triple this price. You purchased your WE 417A tubes from Woo, correct? What did you received, 5842 or 417A drivers? My question is; did I receive 5842 drivers rebranded Western Electric, because as already mentioned, I've been reading other manufactures designated the 417A as a 5842.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Feb 14, 2022)

I was told that the WE 5842 is the same as the 417. I didn’t buy them from Woo Audio though







I bought them from here: https://www.nosvacuumtubes.net/product/western-electric-5842/


----------



## joseph69

I spoke to Jack Wu and he says they're the same as well, but again, that's not what I'm reading. I'm reading ONLY Western Electric made the 417A. Either way as I mentioned, it's not a sound issue, at all, but rather the lower price difference on between the GEC, Raytheon, RCA, Amperex 5842 brands in comparison to the higher priced Western Electric 417A.


----------



## Clive101 (Feb 14, 2022)

Ciggavelli said:


> I was told that the WE 5842 is the same as the 417. I didn’t buy them from Woo Audio though
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I also made a purchase from the same supplier last quad in stock what were your measurements?
In addition from Woo website “***** important: tube and adapter are factory matched and should not be separated*****“
Which leaves me to believe this tube upgrade without Woo matching could be hit or miss or damage your Woo ?
Give me a few days and will upload photos round square and packaging etc.
@joseph69 I purchased a set from Woo and received the JW version
I


----------



## Ciggavelli

Clive101 said:


> I also made a purchase from the same supplier last quad in stock what were your measurements?
> In addition from Woo website “***** important: tube and adapter are factory matched and should not be separated*****“
> Which leaves me to believe this tube upgrade without Woo matching could be hit or miss or damage your Woo ?
> Give me a few days and will upload photos round square and packaging etc.
> ...


Oh, now I'm going to be paranoid about that...

I got a matched quad too.  On the box's flap they all say 85


----------



## HiFiGuy528

@Clive101  We can make a cable with dual 3-pin XLR cable ---> WBT banana connectors for speakers use. 

Here's an example from another customer on how its setup.


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (Feb 14, 2022)

Ciggavelli said:


> Oh, now I'm going to be paranoid about that...
> 
> I got a matched quad too.  On the box's flap they all say 85



No need to worry.... The tubes + adapters are preinstalled and ready to enjoy right out of the box.


----------



## ThanatosVI

HiFiGuy528 said:


> @Clive101  We can make a cable with dual 3-pin XLR cable ---> WBT banana connectors for speakers use.
> 
> Here's an example from another customer on how its setup.


Damn that is amazing.
Would that also work to connect a WEE this way to enjoy some estats from the Wa33 until one can afford the 3ES?


----------



## Roasty

can someone enlighten me.. how/why does an adaptor portion need to be considered in the equation when being matched? or, why can the tube/adaptor not be separated?


----------



## Ciggavelli

Roasty said:


> can someone enlighten me.. how/why does an adaptor portion need to be considered in the equation when being matched? or, why can the tube/adaptor not be separated?


No idea...lol  

When the original tubes eventually die, what are we supposed to do?  Buy new adapters?  I think maybe they mean you should only use the suggested tubes with the adapters.  Maybe


----------



## pippen99

Ciggavelli said:


> No idea...lol
> 
> When the original tubes eventually die, what are we supposed to do?  Buy new adapters?  I think maybe they mean you should only use the suggested tubes with the adapters.  Maybe


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Ciggavelli said:


> No idea...lol
> 
> When the original tubes eventually die, what are we supposed to do?  Buy new adapters?  I think maybe they mean you should only use the suggested tubes with the adapters.  Maybe



No need to be alarmed.... When the time comes, we can match the new set of tubes to your existing adapters.


----------



## Ciggavelli

HiFiGuy528 said:


> No need to be alarmed.... When the time comes, we can match the new set of tubes to your existing adapters.


What happens if the tubes don't match?  Will it harm the WA33 or tubes?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Ciggavelli said:


> What happens if the tubes don't match?  Will it harm the WA33 or tubes?


we don't sell un-matched tubes.

for headphone amplifiers, tubes must be tested for ultra low noise and matched. For preamp quality is not sufficient for headphones use. Keep in mind, with headphones your ears are less than one inch from the speaker driver. Speakers use can have a higher tolerance because the average listening distance is more than 6 feet away.


----------



## Ciggavelli

HiFiGuy528 said:


> we don't sell un-matched tubes.
> 
> for headphone amplifiers, tubes must be tested for ultra low noise and matched. For preamp quality is not sufficient for headphones use. Keep in mind, with headphones your ears are less than one inch from the speaker driver. Speakers use can have a higher tolerance because the average listening distance is more than 6 feet away.


Thanks, I appreciate the response


----------



## Clive101

HiFiGuy528 said:


> we don't sell un-matched tubes.
> 
> for headphone amplifiers, tubes must be tested for ultra low noise and matched. For preamp quality is not sufficient for headphones use. Keep in mind, with headphones your ears are less than one inch from the speaker driver. Speakers use can have a higher tolerance because the average listening distance is more than 6 feet away.


Thank you for coming back nice to have your input.
So if we made a purchase of tubes elsewhere the only issue would be noise if they were unmatched ? 
The adaptors are all the same and do not do any matching ?


----------



## mat.1

HiFiGuy528 said:


> @Clive101  We can make a cable with dual 3-pin XLR cable ---> WBT banana connectors for speakers use.
> 
> Here's an example from another customer on how its setup.


 
Can the WA 33 drive B&W 805D3 ?


----------



## joseph69

Clive101 said:


> The adaptors are all the same and do not do any matching ?


If you read this post from @HiFiGuy528 I'm under the impression that the new tubes do need to be matched to the adapters.


----------



## Clive101 (Feb 15, 2022)

@joseph69 Thanks, I re read this and it now makes sense, mind you how do we get new tubes when so rare !

I think there must be something in the adaptors to balance the tubes..... so why buy matched tubes in the first place ?
If so has anyone purchased a set of tube adaptors for their own tubes how does that work ?

Here are a few photos of my Woo tubes and the boxes from the third party supplier the boxes are plain other than the end markings shown, oddly the markings do not match the measurements.

Note on the two sets I have all square heads and marked WD anyone ideas on the WD marking ?

Also on the print outside 913 anyone else have these markings ?


----------



## audiofest2018

*@Clive101  I believe the 913 number you see from your tube is Western Electric vacuum tube manufacture date code.  You can google and find document online that explains how to read the code.  The challenge is that these manufactures change their date code format from time to time.  So it makes it difficult to determine the exact manufacture time.  If you use the below link I found, it seems to suggest the first digit is year, second is quarter and the third the month.  So maybe 1959Q1 January to March?    I am not certain.

https://vintage-phones.com/phonefil...00-000-000 to  500-000-000/024-722-101_I3.pdf*


----------



## joseph69

Clive101 said:


> @joseph69 Thanks, I re read this and it now makes sense, mind you how do we get new tubes when so rare !


You're welcome.
When I spoke to Jack about the tubes, IIRC he may have mentioned that there are new production 417A/5842 drivers, but don't quote me on that because I did a gale search and couldn't find anything but NOS. When I see Jack at CJNYC '22 I'll ask if he mentioned this. I've done a search for New Production 417A/5842 and haven't found anything with the exception of this NOS Raytheon. But...in the description it states NOS "This is a suitable replacement" so I'm confused if they're NOS or new production. Their cost leads me to believe there new production.
Also, all of your questions regarding these drivers are very valid and something to be considered as well as concerned for the future. My tubes (as shown in my photos earlier) do not have the "913" print on them.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Here is a random question: anyone know the difference in power output between the 6.3mm headphone output and the 4 pin XLR or dual 3 pin?


----------



## Drewligarchy

I got my new headphone stands today. I now have 3 room stands (1 abyss one), A Woo stand, and a Grumpy Goose wooden stand. I went black and silver, based on what I liked, what was in stock.

I may have over did it, but I moved the Susvara and LCD4 to the silver stands along the bottom because of their silver accents. Abyss, LCD 5, and Ether C Flow 1.1 - all black so with the black stands on top.


----------



## Rhodey

I still have stock tubes with my wa33 and enjoy them, but I was wondering what would change by adding a TA-274b...
I know some have experience on here with different rectifiers but wasn't sure about the stock and taka mix.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Feb 21, 2022)

Rhodey said:


> I still have stock tubes with my wa33 and enjoy them, but I was wondering what would change by adding a TA-274b...
> I know some have experience on here with different rectifiers but wasn't sure about the stock and taka mix.



It's more mid-forward and refined, with greater detail. It's better extended on both ends, and slightly brighter than the stock rectifier.

All of this, in my experience.

With my Abyss and SC cable, I prefer the KR 274B - because the SC cable is already mid-forward. With the Abyss and the stock cable I like the Tak better. I also prefer the Tak with the Susvara and LCD-4. I know many use the Tak with the SC and Abyss, but I am somewhat sensitive to high frequencies. I think both are commensurate in quality - it's just a question of synergy, and the headphone and dac you are pairing it with.


----------



## Rhodey

Drewligarchy said:


> It's more mid-forward and refined, with greater detail. It's better extended on both ends, and slightly brighter than the stock rectifier.
> 
> All of this, in my experience.


Hmmm ok that's good info. Maybe I'll wait and go for all KR tubes then. 

Thank you!


----------



## pippen99

I have used several rectifiers in my WA33.  I have used the stock 5U4G, WE 422A, KR 274B, USAF 596, and the Tak 274B.  The Tak stands out as the best of all.  It is more 
refined and precise with a blacker background.  There is one in the classifieds for a very attractive price.


----------



## Roasty

fwiw, my ranking of recs I've used

tak 274b (most real sounding, smooth)
kr 274b (fast and tight, punchy)
eml 5u4g (looks big and sounds big, almost V shape curve)
psvane we274b 1:1 replica (really good, can't find a fault)
gec u52 (a bit veiled up top)
Sophia Electric 274b (slightly harsh, grainy)
mullard gz34 (decent tube, neutral, cheap, nothing really stands out)
we422a (overpriced and overhyped imo)
mullard gz32 (nice low end) 
langrex gz34 (really dull and flat sounding. boring) 
genalex gz34 (lol this is so bad..)


----------



## Rhodey

pippen99 said:


> I have used several rectifiers in my WA33.  I have used the stock 5U4G, WE 422A, KR 274B, USAF 596, and the Tak 274B.  The Tak stands out as the best of all.  It is more
> refined and precise with a blacker background.  There is one in the classifieds for a very attractive price.


Ok, I was worried it would be too bright or too intense. 
Thank you for your help! I did see the listing, wasn't sure if I should or not lol. 
Hows the Tak with KR or psvane tubes? Decent pairing?


----------



## Drewligarchy (Feb 21, 2022)

Rhodey said:


> Ok, I was worried it would be too bright or too intense.
> Thank you for your help! I did see the listing, wasn't sure if I should or not lol.
> Hows the Tak with KR or psvane tubes? Decent pairing?



I don't think the Tak is too intense, but a lot depends on the pairing. It sounds smooth with my Susvara or LCD-4, but it's a little intense with the Abyss and SC cable - a little too much for me. I think it pairs great with both the Kr 2a3 and Psvane Globes. Again, it's a question of synergy. My preferred setup for the LCD-4 is Psvane and Tak. My preferred setup for the Susvara is KR and Tak. For Abyss with SC it sounds best to me with all KR tubes. When the Tak tube is paired well with the right headphone it's very smooth and detailed with excellent treble extension.


----------



## pippen99

Roasty said:


> fwiw, my ranking of recs I've used
> 
> tak 274b (most real sounding, smooth)
> kr 274b (fast and tight, punchy)
> ...


Pretty much agree.  I found the WE 422A to be nothing special.  I do think you might be a little harsh on the Sophia 274B.  I never used them in the WA33 but found they worked very nicely in the WA5.  Another choice though I would check with Woo first is the Weber WU4GB SS rectifier.  I used them also in the WA5 and they had the blackest background by a large margin at the expense of the loss of some tubey lushness.  Now the WA33 is much less warmer than the WA5 so they may work well and they are much cheaper.


----------



## Rhodey

Ok, that makes sense. Id be using it with the sus and sennheisers for the time being. Maybe I'll give it a shot, then try some psvane or KR tubes later on with it.


----------



## pippen99

Rhodey said:


> Ok, I was worried it would be too bright or too intense.
> Thank you for your help! I did see the listing, wasn't sure if I should or not lol.
> Hows the Tak with KR or psvane tubes? Decent pairing?


That really is a good price.  If i had not just bought my USAF 596 I would buy that as a backup.


----------



## Rhodey (Feb 21, 2022)

pippen99 said:


> That really is a good price.  If i had not just bought my USAF 596 I would buy that as a backup.


I pm'd the seller. Waiting on a response. Second owner. Just hope there's no issues with it. About 200 hours, so not bad


----------



## Ciggavelli (Feb 21, 2022)

Drewligarchy said:


> I got my new headphone stands today. I now have 3 room stands (1 abyss one), A Woo stand, and a Grumpy Goose wooden stand. I went black and silver, based on what I liked, what was in stock.
> 
> I may have over did it, but I moved the Susvara and LCD4 to the silver stands along the bottom because of their silver accents. Abyss, LCD 5, and Ether C Flow 1.1 - all black so with the black stands on top.


Nice stands!  I’m into stands myself and  like trying to find the best for each pair of headphones (e.g., Woo Audio, Stax, Focal, Rooms, and the Abyss Stand).

What I also find interesting is what “cheaper” headphones people keep who mainly play in the TOTL arena. It looks like your’s is the Ether C. Mine in the Fostex th900mk2. I feel that the “cheaper” headphones that those with mainly TOTL headphones keep, speaks very highly of them.


----------



## Drewligarchy (Feb 21, 2022)

Ciggavelli said:


> Nice stands!  I’m into stands myself and  like trying to find the best for each pair of headphones (e.g., Woo Audio, Stax, Focal, Rooms, and the Abyss Stand).
> 
> What I also find interesting is what “cheaper” headphones people keep who mainly play in the TOTL arena. It looks like your’s is the Ether C. Mine in the Fostex th900mk2. I feel that the “cheaper” headphones that those with mainly TOTL headphones keep, speaks very highly of them.



Yeah - I love the Ether C flow 1.1. Mr. Speakers is certainly not the last word in dynamics, but it has a very vivid mid-range (reminds me a little of the LCD-5). Plus I need a couple closed backs on hand for those times I can't have sound leak. the ECF 1.1 and Audeze LCD-XC are my go to for that. I used to have a Fostex as well. While they are known for their bass - I always thought they were an excellent headphone - and the semi-openness makes all the difference. I didn't keep them because I used them in bed and my wife complained of sound leaks.

In terms of non TOTL headphones, I also have a Focal Clear which I have preferred to the Utopia thus far. The Utopia has gobs more resolution, but I haven't been able to dial it in - that's one of my next projects. But the Clears play nice out of almost anything, have a great frequency response, and put a smile on my face every time I listen. I use them with a Simaudio 230HAD with my desktop PC, and have the "Pro" version because I like the black with red pads. That and the Senn HD600 are the only dynamic driver headphones (not counting bluetooth stuff), that I still have.


----------



## Rhodey

Ciggavelli said:


> Nice stands!  I’m into stands myself and  like trying to find the best for each pair of headphones (e.g., Woo Audio, Stax, Focal, Rooms, and the Abyss Stand).
> 
> What I also find interesting is what “cheaper” headphones people keep who mainly play in the TOTL arena. It looks like your’s is the Ether C. Mine in the Fostex th900mk2. I feel that the “cheaper” headphones that those with mainly TOTL headphones keep, speaks very highly of them.


For my cheaper headphones, I've always kept the 650(bp) and 580(bs) around. Love them both.


----------



## Rhodey

Picked up the Tak 274b. Hopefully it works out and I can build on it with some other solid tubes in the near future.


----------



## GoldenOne

I've posted a review of the WA33, man I miss it already


----------



## Ciggavelli

GoldenOne said:


> I've posted a review of the WA33, man I miss it already



Nice review (and I typically don't enjoy audio reviews).  You're right that the TC and WA33 combo is perfect.  It could be endgame for many.  If I could only have 1 amp and 1 pair of headphones, it would be the wa33 and TCs.  

Interesting comment about the somewhat small soundstage.  I feel it is a bit better on the WA33 Elite.  If you love the standard WA33, you'll love the Elite version even more.  However, it still doesn't sound like I'm listening to music in a concert hall.  I've actually never heard headphones that make me sound like I'm in an arena.  Maybe it's the way my brain works, or maybe it's a limitation of my gear (including the WA33).  I do hear sounds as if they are in different parts of the room.  Sometimes I think somebody dropped something somewhere and I look around my room trying to find what happened.  Then I realize it was just in the music.  

What amp would you recommend that has that concert hall like soundstage?


----------



## Frankie D

GoldenOne said:


> I've posted a review of the WA33, man I miss it already



I heard the Abyss 1266 and the WA33 at CanJam and I agree.  For me it was the best sound at the show (STAX 9000 in the Woo Audio room and the LCD5 on the Nagra stack were the other two that impressed me).  Great review.  Now you need to review the Elite version and the 3ES!  Tks.


----------



## atya35mm

Is there any harm, when changing headphones, to turn down the WA33 volume, plug in the new headphone in 6.3mm WHILE the balanced headphone is connected, then unplug the balance headphone, then turn up the volume?


----------



## musicman59

That should not be a problem.


----------



## tdx

Hi all, I wanted to ask fellow owners if anyone is using speakers with the WA33. I am thinking of getting a small pair of bookshelves/desktop speakers to be driven by the Woo amp and I'm not really sure what would work. Is there any pair of speakers that can be driven straight out of the preamp or do I need to add a poweramp no matter what?

Thanks


----------



## Ciggavelli

tdx said:


> Hi all, I wanted to ask fellow owners if anyone is using speakers with the WA33. I am thinking of getting a small pair of bookshelves/desktop speakers to be driven by the Woo amp and I'm not really sure what would work. Is there any pair of speakers that can be driven straight out of the preamp or do I need to add a poweramp no matter what?
> 
> Thanks


It’s 10w out of the XLRs I believe, so you can drive some efficient speakers.  You’ll need an XLR to speaker cables adapter though. Or, you could get powered speakers and use the WA33 output as an XLR interconnect to the powered speakers


----------



## tdx

Ciggavelli said:


> It’s 10w out of the XLRs I believe, so you can drive some efficient speakers.  You’ll need an XLR to speaker cables adapter though. Or, you could get powered speakers and use the WA33 output as an XLR interconnect to the powered speakers


thanks!!


----------



## ajreynol (Apr 9, 2022)

Hi folks! A bit new to tubes and had a question: As I look through various tube 2A3 variants, I see 2A3*C* and 2A3*-T*. Are any of these compatible? Trying to better understand the range of options, and not seeing these variants on the Woo compatibility charts.

Also, I noticed some mentioning they like/prefer the sound of a 300B 2.5V power tubes, but I also see Woo recommends against using them with a WA33. Are they safe to use? Any pros/cons to consider if they are safe?

Thank you.


----------



## ahossam

Aside from 1266 and Susvara, what headphones is having great synergy with WA33?


----------



## ThanatosVI

ahossam said:


> Aside from 1266 and Susvara, what headphones is having great synergy with WA33?


Meze Elite comes to mind


----------



## Frankie D

ThanatosVI said:


> Meze Elite comes to mind


As it works well with both Sus and 1266, I would think most anything.  Obviously the Diana as well.


----------



## Ciggavelli

ahossam said:


> Aside from 1266 and Susvara, what headphones is having great synergy with WA33?


Utopias are the first to come to mind.


----------



## innocentblood

lately I have been having some very good listening experiences with the HD800S and the WA33  
Given the well publicised sound signature of the HD800S, i think it provides a very nice alternative to the sound I am already getting with my Abyss TC.


----------



## Drewligarchy

Unrelated to headphones - but I’ve been doing this for the past couple days. I’m waiting on a Pass Int 60, but my dealer gave me a Krell Vanguard loaner in the meantime. Sounds great with Woo Wa33 as pre!


----------



## joseph69

ahossam said:


> Aside from 1266 and Susvara, what headphones is having great synergy with WA33?


Any headphone I've connect to it, but the Utopia are my favorite pairing.


----------



## ahossam

Can you guys recommend good XLR interconnects and power cables at a reasonable price for WA33?

Thank you.


----------



## bfreedma

ahossam said:


> Can you guys recommend good XLR interconnects and power cables at a reasonable price for WA33?
> 
> Thank you.



https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/balancedaudio/index.htm

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com...0&sr=1-3-4c1442dc-e644-4a05-a0d0-ff1b45d55b2f


----------



## cgb3

innocentblood said:


> lately I have been having some very good listening experiences with the HD800S and the WA33
> Given the well publicised sound signature of the HD800S, i think it provides a very nice alternative to the sound I am already getting with my Abyss TC.


For me, the HD800S is still a top 10 headphone. I enjoy mine on a regular basis.


----------



## dizcotec

I'm using the Naim Unity Atom HE at the moment to drive my Utopias, Stellias and Diana V2s. I have my eyes firmly set on the KTE Serene (or Bliss depending on when it comes out) as a second desk system. 

Now to my question. Would it be completely insane to think that running the Naim Pre Outs into a WA33 to get more umph and get into tube cycling? The Naim Pre-out is pure Class A and sounds wonderful. Would love to get your thoughts.


----------



## tdx

Anyone can recommend a place to buy the WE 417a driver tubes? Prices online are all over the place. Should I try to get them on Ebay? Or is that too much of a risk?

Thanks


----------



## pippen99

I got mine on Ebay.  Seller provided measurements and had great feedback.  I have no issues buying tubes on Ebay.  I bought my RCA 2A3 quad on Ebay also.


----------



## Rhodey

Just picked up a ps audio powerplant 3. I was wondering if I'd have plenty of head room (wa33 and may kte) and what reasonable priced power cables people are using. I'm sure I'm good on head room. I currently use a ifi supernova cable for my wa33 but hear they don't work well with the ps audio powerplants.


----------



## Roasty

Rhodey said:


> Just picked up a ps audio powerplant 3. I was wondering if I'd have plenty of head room (wa33 and may kte) and what reasonable priced power cables people are using. I'm sure I'm good on head room. I currently use a ifi supernova cable for my wa33 but hear they don't work well with the ps audio powerplants.



Whats your definition of reasonably priced?


----------



## joseph69

Rhodey said:


> Just picked up a ps audio powerplant 3. *I was wondering if I'd have plenty of head room* (wa33 and may kte) and what reasonable priced power cables people are using.* I'm sure I'm good on head room.* I currently use a ifi supernova cable for my wa33 but hear they don't work well with the ps audio powerplants.


Why wonder if you're already sure?


----------



## pippen99

I currently run my WA33EE and dCS Rossini DAC and Clock off a PS Audio Stellar P3 regenerator.  No problems at all.  For reasonably priced power cables I prefer Cerious Graphene Extreme cables.  Good quality though no very flexible.
http://www.cerioustechnologies.com/#products


----------



## Rhodey

joseph69 said:


> Why wonder if you're already sure?


Because I've heard others have a similar setup, but haven't actually experienced it in my chain. Just a question. 

Thanks for the quality info! 👌


----------



## Rhodey

pippen99 said:


> I currently run my WA33EE and dCS Rossini DAC and Clock off a PS Audio Stellar P3 regenerator.  No problems at all.  For reasonably priced power cables I prefer Cerious Graphene Extreme cables.  Good quality though no very flexible.
> http://www.cerioustechnologies.com/#products


Awesome. Good info and I appreciate your time! 

I'll definitely check these out.


----------



## Rhodey

Roasty said:


> Whats your definition of reasonably priced?


Anything under $500 lol. I know they can get crazy expensive.


----------



## joseph69

Rhodey said:


> Because I've heard others have a similar setup, but haven't actually experienced it in my chain. Just a question.
> 
> Thanks for the quality info! 👌


You answered your own question about having plenty of "headroom" which was the point of my reply.


----------



## Rhodey

joseph69 said:


> You answered your own question about having plenty of "headroom" which was the point of my reply.


The point of your reply was pointless. Just coming off smug. You know what you're doing. 

I was pretty sure I was fine, but nothing wrong with asking for clarification if others have a similar setup. 

Again, I appreciate your quality info.


----------



## Roasty

Rhodey said:


> Anything under $500 lol. I know they can get crazy expensive.



tell me about it.. 
anyways, Triode Wire Labs power cords come in around that price. check them out, if you haven't already.


----------



## Rhodey

Any experience with Cullen or now wyred for sound cables?


----------



## ThanatosVI

Rhodey said:


> Anything under $500 lol. I know they can get crazy expensive.


NRG Custom Cables are really great bang for buck wise.


----------



## szymonsays

I might have a chance to audition the WA33 very soon. Just wanted to ask if anyone knew what the exact voltage gain was for the low and high gain?


----------



## Drewligarchy (May 15, 2022)

May be a little off-topic - but I haven't posted in a while as I've been sucked into a new 2-channel system for about a month and a half. Since my family and I moved out to a house in the burbs, building a man cave in the basement has always been in the back of my mind - and with more working from home, it's become my office too (though I have to share it with the kids sometimes as evidenced by the toys next to the speakers.) It seems to have started with finalizing my headphone setup - and ended with Martin Logan Expression 13As. I haven't found anything that kills upgraditis like a good 2-channel system - but then again, I also completely upgraded my headphone system prior (adding a Wa33 Elite, Lumin U1, PS Audio P12, and LCD 5). Good news: digital front end I spent all that money on works great with the speakers. My Chord Dave is right under the Wa33 in the first picture, and I am running 25 ft of balanced cable, under the carpet, to the amp next to the speakers. It may be new toy syndrome, as I've only had them for 5 or 6 weeks - but this is my best audio purchase I've ever made, right there with the Wa33. Now just using a Krell loaner and waiting on my Pass Amp, waiting for an upgraded amp stand (that will fit the Pass when it comes.) Also considering replacing my Pangea stand with the Wa33 for a higher end stand. Finally, a higher quality desk would make this room pop (I'm 42 years old and still using a gamer desk - though I make no apologies . That said, it's come a long way and open to any suggestions - as this is going to be my man cave for quite some time.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Drewligarchy said:


> May be a little off-topic - but I haven't posted in a while as I've been sucked into a new 2-channel system for about a month and a half. Since my family and I moved out to a house in the burbs, building a man cave in the basement has always been in the back of my mind - and with more working from home, it's become my office too (though I have to share it with the kids sometimes as evidenced by the toys next to the speakers.) It seems to have started with finalizing my headphone setup - and ended with Martin Logan Expression 13As. I haven't found anything that kills upgraditis like a good 2-channel system - but then again, I also completely upgraded my headphone system prior (adding a Wa33 Elite, Lumin U1, PS Audio P12, and LCD 5). Good news: digital front end I spent all that money on works great with the speakers. My Chord Dave is right under the Wa33 in the first picture, and I am running 25 ft of balanced cable, under the carpet, to the amp next to the speakers. It may be new toy syndrome, as I've only had them for 5 or 6 weeks - but this is my best audio purchase I've ever made, right there with the Wa33. Now just using a Krell loaner and waiting on my Pass Amp, waiting for an upgraded amp stand (that will fit the Pass when it comes.) Also considering replacing my Pangea stand with the Wa33 for a higher end stand. Finally, a higher quality desk would make this room pop (I'm 42 years old and still using a gamer desk - though I make no apologies . That said, it's come a long way and open to any suggestions - as this is going to be my man cave for quite some time.


That's an amazing man cave, and HUGE!


----------



## Rhodey

Drewligarchy said:


> May be a little off-topic - but I haven't posted in a while as I've been sucked into a new 2-channel system for about a month and a half. Since my family and I moved out to a house in the burbs, building a man cave in the basement has always been in the back of my mind - and with more working from home, it's become my office too (though I have to share it with the kids sometimes as evidenced by the toys next to the speakers.) It seems to have started with finalizing my headphone setup - and ended with Martin Logan Expression 13As. I haven't found anything that kills upgraditis like a good 2-channel system - but then again, I also completely upgraded my headphone system prior (adding a Wa33 Elite, Lumin U1, PS Audio P12, and LCD 5). Good news: digital front end I spent all that money on works great with the speakers. My Chord Dave is right under the Wa33 in the first picture, and I am running 25 ft of balanced cable, under the carpet, to the amp next to the speakers. It may be new toy syndrome, as I've only had them for 5 or 6 weeks - but this is my best audio purchase I've ever made, right there with the Wa33. Now just using a Krell loaner and waiting on my Pass Amp, waiting for an upgraded amp stand (that will fit the Pass when it comes.) Also considering replacing my Pangea stand with the Wa33 for a higher end stand. Finally, a higher quality desk would make this room pop (I'm 42 years old and still using a gamer desk - though I make no apologies . That said, it's come a long way and open to any suggestions - as this is going to be my man cave for quite some time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Frankie D

Drewligarchy said:


> May be a little off-topic - but I haven't posted in a while as I've been sucked into a new 2-channel system for about a month and a half. Since my family and I moved out to a house in the burbs, building a man cave in the basement has always been in the back of my mind - and with more working from home, it's become my office too (though I have to share it with the kids sometimes as evidenced by the toys next to the speakers.) It seems to have started with finalizing my headphone setup - and ended with Martin Logan Expression 13As. I haven't found anything that kills upgraditis like a good 2-channel system - but then again, I also completely upgraded my headphone system prior (adding a Wa33 Elite, Lumin U1, PS Audio P12, and LCD 5). Good news: digital front end I spent all that money on works great with the speakers. My Chord Dave is right under the Wa33 in the first picture, and I am running 25 ft of balanced cable, under the carpet, to the amp next to the speakers. It may be new toy syndrome, as I've only had them for 5 or 6 weeks - but this is my best audio purchase I've ever made, right there with the Wa33. Now just using a Krell loaner and waiting on my Pass Amp, waiting for an upgraded amp stand (that will fit the Pass when it comes.) Also considering replacing my Pangea stand with the Wa33 for a higher end stand. Finally, a higher quality desk would make this room pop (I'm 42 years old and still using a gamer desk - though I make no apologies . That said, it's come a long way and open to any suggestions - as this is going to be my man cave for quite some time.


Have you tried powering the speakers using the WA33?  I would be curious how it does with them.  Might be surprising, though don’t go too loud.


----------



## orrm

hi all!
I might be getting my hands on a WA33 soon, was wondering if anyone has experience with it and some ZMFs?


----------



## Ciggavelli

orrm said:


> hi all!
> I might be getting my hands on a WA33 soon, was wondering if anyone has experience with it and some ZMFs?


Yes, I have the ZMF VCs. They sound great out of the wa33, but almost everything does. Unfortunately, ZMF doesn’t play at the same level as many other TOTL cans, in my opinion. TCs, Susvaras, Utopias, etc are all much better. The ZMFs won’t show you all of what the WA33 can offer. It’ll sound good though of course.


----------



## timeslip

Ciggavelli said:


> Yes, I have the ZMF VCs. They sound great out of the wa33, but almost everything does. Unfortunately, ZMF doesn’t play at the same level as many other TOTL cans, in my opinion. TCs, Susvaras, Utopias, etc are all much better. The ZMFs won’t show you all of what the WA33 can offer. It’ll sound good though of course.


It's actually why I ended up buying a ZMF Pendant to pair with the VC's.  The wa33 was just too powerful for it, unless you have a preamp or adjust the volume via software.


----------



## Rhodey

Ciggavelli said:


> Yes, I have the ZMF VCs. They sound great out of the wa33, but almost everything does. Unfortunately, ZMF doesn’t play at the same level as many other TOTL cans, in my opinion. TCs, Susvaras, Utopias, etc are all much better. The ZMFs won’t show you all of what the WA33 can offer. It’ll sound good though of course.


I very much agree with this. Imo the Verite Closed and open just didn't scale with the higher end gear as much as I hoped. Others will disagree and that's ok.


----------



## orrm

Well my main daily driver is the Susvara which I assume would get everything possible out of the WA33 but these days I truly also enjoy the ZMF Atrium and VC when all three are driven by the Enleum Amp-23r and to some extent the Ferrum Audio Oor/Hypsos.

I always wanted to try a WA33 and now have a good deal on a second hand one that I'm finding it hard to resist but maybe it's not worth replacing the other two amps I have with.. can't afford to just add it to my collection I'm afraid.

I don't have preamp control in my DAC (Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE) which actually runs a little hot from its balanced out so the volume aspect is problematic to me.


----------



## Ciggavelli

orrm said:


> Well my main daily driver is the Susvara which I assume would get everything possible out of the WA33 but these days I truly also enjoy the ZMF Atrium and VC when all three are driven by the Enleum Amp-23r and to some extent the Ferrum Audio Oor/Hypsos.
> 
> I always wanted to try a WA33 and now have a good deal on a second hand one that I'm finding it hard to resist but maybe it's not worth replacing the other two amps I have with.. can't afford to just add it to my collection I'm afraid.
> 
> I don't have preamp control in my DAC (Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE) which actually runs a little hot from its balanced out so the volume aspect is problematic to me.


I haven’t had an issue with volume. I keep my DAVE at -6 or dac mode and I’ve listened to IEMs out of my wa33. You just have to be careful not to accidentally shift the volume too much. To be fair, you don’t have a lot of wiggle room, but I’ve never had an issue


----------



## Rhodey

Current setup. Probably will stay like this until I find a ss amp that I want to go with. Not in a rush atm.
Recently added the Stellar Powerplant 3 and I definitely feel it’s made a solid improvement across the board. Highly recommend! Thanks to @pippen99 for the help and info. Much appreciated!


----------



## Frankie D

Rhodey said:


> Current setup. Probably will stay like this until I find a ss amp that I want to go with. Not in a rush atm.
> Recently added the Stellar Powerplant 3 and I definitely feel it’s made a solid improvement across the board. Highly recommend! Thanks to @pippen99 for the help and info. Much appreciated!


I would doubt there is a SS amp as good as the WA33.  If you find one, please make sure to talk about it.


----------



## Rhodey

Frankie D said:


> I would doubt there is a SS amp as good as the WA33.  If you find one, please make sure to talk about it.


If I get one it would be something to compliment Focals, sennheisers or something like that. Not sure what I want to do. Still want to try out a lcd 4 and Utopia.


----------



## tdx

Frankie D said:


> I would doubt there is a SS amp as good as the WA33.  If you find one, please make sure to talk about it.


That's actually something I've been wondering about myself. Have any of the WA33 owners here heard a SS amp that equals it or at least comes close to it when powering hungry cans like the TC or Susvara? The closest I ever heard was the Enleum and it wasn't _that _close...


----------



## Frankie D

tdx said:


> That's actually something I've been wondering about myself. Have any of the WA33 owners here heard a SS amp that equals it or at least comes close to it when powering hungry cans like the TC or Susvara? The closest I ever heard was the Enleum and it wasn't _that _close...


Boulder came out with their 812 Dac/Pre/HP Amp and I and others have been waiting for some reviews.  I know Boulder from 2-channel and always felt their products were some of the best available.  However the specs on the amplifier section of the 812 seem kind of light.  I contacted Boulder and they communicated that HP’s were a new area for them and the Sus and Abyss 1266 were not tested with it.  I think they tested it with Focal.  I am still waiting to hear of a review by some folks.


----------



## OneEyedHito

Frankie D said:


> Boulder came out with their 812 Dac/Pre/HP Amp and I and others have been waiting for some reviews.  I know Boulder from 2-channel and always felt their products were some of the best available.  However the specs on the amplifier section of the 812 seem kind of light.  I contacted Boulder and they communicated that HP’s were a new area for them and the Sus and Abyss 1266 were not tested with it.  I think they tested it with Focal.  I am still waiting to hear of a review by some folks.


I called Boulder MSRP is approx. $8500 USD, it looks like it too.  Beautiful amp!


----------



## Rhodey

When I say adding a ss amp eventually, I mean alongside the wa33 😁. It won't replace it haha


----------



## Frankie D

Rhodey said:


> When I say adding a ss amp eventually, I mean alongside the wa33 😁. It won't replace it haha


Sure, but you will still want one of comparable quality, no?


----------



## Rhodey

Frankie D said:


> Sure, but you will still want one of comparable quality, no?


I would be ok with a step down. I don't need a ss that's equal to the wa33. Something like a violectric or something similar.


----------



## Roasty (May 21, 2022)

friend sent me this image from the Munich show..

wa33 owners please get your wallets ready.


----------



## Rhodey

Roasty said:


> friend sent me this image from the Munich show..
> 
> wa33 owners please get your wallets ready.


----------



## Ciggavelli (May 21, 2022)

Roasty said:


> friend sent me this image from the Munich show..
> 
> wa33 owners please get your wallets ready.


Day 1 buy

It’ll probably be $4000+ for the 4 needed in the Wa33


----------



## pippen99

This is going to hurt real bad!


----------



## innocentblood

just sold my WA33 (standard) yesterday with the hopes of upgrading to the Elite JPS in the near future. I kept all of my upgrade tubes, just to keep my objective in sight


----------



## musicman59

Frankie D said:


> Boulder came out with their 812 Dac/Pre/HP Amp and I and others have been waiting for some reviews.  I know Boulder from 2-channel and always felt their products were some of the best available.  However the specs on the amplifier section of the 812 seem kind of light.  I contacted Boulder and they communicated that HP’s were a new area for them and the Sus and Abyss 1266 were not tested with it.  I think they tested it with Focal.  I am still waiting to hear of a review by some folks.


I saw the Bolder amp at Axpona (they did not have it working). It grabbed my attention because of the brand and it’s beauty.

Unfortunately it is very light weight with not much substance in that regard and if you check it’s specs it will not have enough power to drive difficult headphones. It provides 800mw in 8 ohms and 80mw in 600 ohms.

It was surprising to me knowing their reputation on the 2 channel world.


----------



## Dboy1414

Roasty said:


> friend sent me this image from the Munich show..
> 
> wa33 owners please get your wallets ready.


Take my money!


----------



## joseph69 (May 22, 2022)

innocentblood said:


> just sold my WA33 (standard) yesterday with the hopes of upgrading to the Elite JPS in the near future. I kept all of my upgrade tubes, just to keep my objective in sight


If you happen to lose sight of your objective, please send me a PM on any upgraded tubes you might be interested in parting with.


----------



## Clive101

Roasty said:


> friend sent me this image from the Munich show..
> 
> wa33 owners please get your wallets ready.


And the price is .....?

https://www.audionote.com.au/takatsuki

AUS $2,650 for a matched pair...!


----------



## Bard Rich

innocentblood said:


> just sold my WA33 (standard) yesterday with the hopes of upgrading to the Elite JPS in the near future. I kept all of my upgrade tubes, just to keep my objective in sight


Thanks Bro..❤


----------



## innocentblood

Bard Rich said:


> Thanks Bro..❤


you're welcome  is it everything that you were hoping for? do share your impressions as you continue to spend time with the WA33.


----------



## Roasty

@innocentblood was kind enough to let me try out his we417a tubes + adaptors from Woo Audio. wanted to compare them to the tubes I got from tubesdepot and the custom adaptors I got from Deyan. 

they certainly package them well, with a nice wooden box for each pair. the adaptors look and feel superb! lovely gold pins, and they slot in and out of the wa33 smoothly. the we417a tubes themselves look very nice with sharp and strongly coloured lettering (I can't say the same for my tubes..). 











sound wise I would say they are pretty much the same. the only difference is when I use the Woo tubes+adaptors, I have to drop the volume level by 2 on my dac (scale of 0-100) to match my own tubes. initially I thought the Woo tubes had stronger bass but turns out its just due to the difference in volume. 








all four of the we417a from Woo have the JW annotation on them. very pristine looking tubes. and I have to say the Woo adaptors are really beautiful and I would love to have a set of my own! I did not separate the woo adaptors from their respective tubes as apparently they're matched that way (although, I'm not entirely sure how an adaptor would affect the tube measurements?).


----------



## ThanatosVI

Roasty said:


> @innocentblood was kind enough to let me try out his we417a tubes + adaptors from Woo Audio. wanted to compare them to the tubes I got from tubesdepot and the custom adaptors I got from Deyan.
> 
> they certainly package them well, with a nice wooden box for each pair. the adaptors look and feel superb! lovely gold pins, and they slot in and out of the wa33 smoothly. the we417a tubes themselves look very nice with sharp and strongly coloured lettering (I can't say the same for my tubes..).
> 
> ...


Good to know they sound the same.

The Woo adapters are a lot prettier tho


----------



## orrm

just got my WA33 yesterday, has a terrible hum.. any thoughts on how to troubleshoot and where to start?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/GhybDDYwDcb78aeD8


----------



## ThanatosVI

orrm said:


> just got my WA33 yesterday, has a terrible hum.. any thoughts on how to troubleshoot and where to start?
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/GhybDDYwDcb78aeD8


Try to clean the Pins of the tubes with a cloth or something.


----------



## Rhodey

orrm said:


> just got my WA33 yesterday, has a terrible hum.. any thoughts on how to troubleshoot and where to start?
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/GhybDDYwDcb78aeD8


Man I'm so sorry! That definitely sucks. This is from the Woo site. I'd start here and if you don't get anywhere I'd reach out to woo. 

22: What to do when my amplifier developed a light hum/noise?

Noises can come from many different places. e.g. power source, audio cables, environmental EMI. To test, please try the following. 

- disconnect all cables from the amplifier.

- install ALL stock tubes.

- move amplifier to another area of the house. e.g. living room, kitchen countertop, office, etc. (This is important to isolate the amplifier from other components). 

- keep cell phones, WiFi routers, powered hard drives and other high EMI devices away from the amplifier. 

- connect AC power cord directly to a wall outlet (no conditioners or power strips).

- connect headphones to the amplifier and set volume to 11 o’clock position.

- listen through headphone. Do you still hear the hum? 

If you still hear the hum, try a ground-lift adapter (for testing ONLY). If the hum goes away using the adapter, you have a ground-loop issue in the house. You can use a device called HUM-X.


----------



## Clive101 (Jun 7, 2022)

orrm said:


> just got my WA33 yesterday, has a terrible hum.. any thoughts on how to troubleshoot and where to start?
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/GhybDDYwDcb78aeD8


Hello @orrm sorry to lean you have hum....
Once you tried all the suggestions you may have to try the voltage setting.
Long story short the WA33 is not Euro compliant because it cannot operate at EU voltage tolerance specification.
You have to set the voltage at the rear, there are three settings for the 240 volt EU model.
You need to find the voltage you have on your electric supply and set accordingly "BUT" if the voltage fluctuates, in between Woo WA33 settings you may get "HUM" depending on the components ability to cope with the voltage swing.
I ended up purchasing a PS 15
My earlier WA33 SE was dead quite.
You can set, out of range (higher voltage) but the WA33 will get hotter but can be cooled down with fans (search my earlier posts) 

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...+Elite+Edition+-+QUICK+INSTALLATION+GUIDE.pdf

Hope that helps please let us know how you get on


----------



## orrm (Jun 7, 2022)

Clive101 said:


> Hello @orrm sorry to lean you have hum....
> Once you tried all the suggestions you may have to try the voltage setting.
> Long story short the WA33 is not Euro compliant because it cannot operate at EU voltage tolerance specification.
> You have to set the voltage at the rear, there are three settings for the 240 volt EU model.
> ...



Thanks @Clive101 and everyone else who answered. It seems like the hum is a bit better depending on the time of day (was quieter at night and early morning). I ordered a few gadgets to try and help with DC offset that'll arrive tomorrow to see if that mitigates it completely and will start looking for a powerplant maybe as I had that on my watchlist in any case. 

I tried switching the tubes around and also replaced the rectifier from stock to an upgraded one - doesn't seem to change much as I believe it's a transformer humming because of the power in my mains. I did also play around with the voltage on the back (100-120 as I'm in the US) but that didn't change much either.


----------



## Frankie D

Clive101 said:


> Hello @orrm sorry to lean you have hum....
> Once you tried all the suggestions you may have to try the voltage setting.
> Long story short the WA33 is not Euro compliant because it cannot operate at EU voltage tolerance specification.
> You have to set the voltage at the rear, there are three settings for the 240 volt EU model.
> ...


Does this mean that if the voltage fluctuates below 120V ( at the 120 setting ) hum will occur?


----------



## ThanatosVI

orrm said:


> seems like the hum is a bit better depending on the time of day


Seems like an elecricity issue which could be solved by a power regenerator. 

I know an expensive gadget, but well worth a recommendation for sound benefits anyways.


----------



## orrm

ThanatosVI said:


> Seems like an elecricity issue which could be solved by a power regenerator.
> 
> I know an expensive gadget, but well worth a recommendation for sound benefits anyways.


Yep hoping to find a PS Audio Stellar Powerplant 3 soon.. had that on my watchlist for a while


----------



## Clive101 (Jun 7, 2022)

orrm said:


> Thanks @Clive101 and everyone else who answered. It seems like the hum is a bit better depending on the time of day (was quieter at night and early morning). I ordered a few gadgets to try and help with DC offset that'll arrive tomorrow to see if that mitigates it completely and will start looking for a powerplant maybe as I had that on my watchlist in any case.
> 
> I tried switching the tubes around and also replaced the rectifier from stock to an upgraded one - doesn't seem to change much as I believe it's a transformer humming because of the power in my mains. I did also play around with the voltage on the back (100-120 as I'm in the US) but that didn't change much eith
> 
> ...



@Frankie D  perhaps but I have found if the voltage is out of spec it runs hot or with a hum on certain copies of WA33


----------



## Frankie D

Clive101 said:


> @Frankie D  perhaps but I have found if the voltage is out of spec it runs hot or with a hum on certain copies of WA33


I must say this has me a little concerned.


----------



## Ciggavelli

orrm said:


> just got my WA33 yesterday, has a terrible hum.. any thoughts on how to troubleshoot and where to start?
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/GhybDDYwDcb78aeD8


This is a common complaint. When I had my standard wa33 I had hum too. I asked about it in this thread, and others wrote about having humming as well. It might just be an annoyance you’ll have to get used to. My WA33 Elite has no humming, which I attribute to the upgraded transformers used.


----------



## orrm

Ciggavelli said:


> This is a common complaint. When I had my standard wa33 I had hum too. I asked about it in this thread, and others wrote about having humming as well. It might just be an annoyance you’ll have to get used to. My WA33 Elite has no humming, which I attribute to the upgraded transformers used.


Kind of wish I knew that prior although it's much better today than it was before and I think with some added electronics for power regeneration or DC offset I hope to get it completely gone. It does sound amazing with both the Susvara and 1266 so at least sound wise it's perfect


----------



## Frankie D

Ciggavelli said:


> This is a common complaint. When I had my standard wa33 I had hum too. I asked about it in this thread, and others wrote about having humming as well. It might just be an annoyance you’ll have to get used to. My WA33 Elite has no humming, which I attribute to the upgraded transformers used.


Good to know.  I would like the Elite at some point.  Great sound with the 1266 and that was with the standard edition.


----------



## joseph69

@orrm 
Is this a brand new WA33 with brand new new stock tubes?
If yes, don't rush out a buy a regenerator just yet, give the tubes time to burn/settle in.
Also, you'll likely be changing your tubes (assuming they're stock) before you know it and the tunes you choose may be much quieter or even dead silent.


----------



## orrm

@joseph69 This is a used WA33 bought through a well known store that tested it before selling. Tubes seem to be stock though I have another rectifier. Power cable is generic.

I have to say I don't think it's the tubes because it's not audible through headphones and level of hum changes throughout the day. Store also said it worked flawlessly for them.

I'm getting some DC offset gadgets tomorrow from Amazon to see if it helps before I go deep on a regenerator.


----------



## joseph69

orrm said:


> @joseph69 This is a used WA33 bought through a well known store that tested it before selling. Tubes seem to be stock though I have another rectifier. Power cable is generic.
> 
> I have to say I don't think it's the tubes because it's not audible through headphones and level of hum changes throughout the day. Store also said it worked flawlessly for them.
> 
> I'm getting some DC offset gadgets tomorrow from Amazon to see if it helps before I go deep on a regenerator.


I'd still go with the tubes (mostly the rectifier) being the culprit.
Keep us posted on the DC offset purchases you made


----------



## ThanatosVI

orrm said:


> I have to say I don't think it's the tubes because it's not audible through headphones


So you hear a hum from the amp itself and not humming noise through the headphones?


----------



## orrm

ThanatosVI said:


> So you hear a hum from the amp itself and not humming noise through the headphones?


That is correct.


----------



## DJJEZ (Jun 9, 2022)

Years and years of chasing this amp and finally I pulled the trigger on a WA33 JPS elite. I promised myself I would go a few months without tube rolling....that lasted a few days 

Thanks to @Ciggavelli for answering a ton of questions I threw at him over a long period of time


----------



## orrm

DJJEZ said:


> Years and years of chasing this amp and finally I pulled the trigger. I promised myself I would go a few months without tube rolling....that lasted a few days
> 
> Thanks to @Ciggavelli for answering a ton of questions I threw at him over a long period of time


Super impressive collection of headphones and gear. We also share a few in common


----------



## Clive101

DJJEZ said:


> Years and years of chasing this amp and finally I pulled the trigger. I promised myself I would go a few months without tube rolling....that lasted a few days
> 
> Thanks to @Ciggavelli for answering a ton of questions I threw at him over a long period of time


Congradulations.
Your in the UK you could have come over to hear my version of the WA33 I have the same version and the same tubes before you made the purchase but I know you will not be dissapointed.
How does the Susvara comapred to the LCD4 on the WA33 you have I am about to invest in the Susvara as I have the LCD4 ?


----------



## linshu1992

DJJEZ said:


> Years and years of chasing this amp and finally I pulled the trigger on a WA33 JPS elite. I promised myself I would go a few months without tube rolling....that lasted a few days
> 
> Thanks to @Ciggavelli for answering a ton of questions I threw at him over a long period of time


Did you use to own the WA33 SE? How do you like the difference?

And what about the tubes? Always want to hear more!


----------



## DJJEZ (Jun 9, 2022)

linshu1992 said:


> Did you use to own the WA33 SE? How do you like the difference?
> 
> And what about the tubes? Always want to hear more!


Never owned the WA33 SE. went straight to wa33 jps elite.

The 417's seem to add more bass to my ears. I need more time comparing the rectifiers though. I've been running all stock tubes for a while to get used to the sound.


----------



## Roasty

DJJEZ said:


> Years and years of chasing this amp and finally I pulled the trigger on a WA33 JPS elite. I promised myself I would go a few months without tube rolling....that lasted a few days
> 
> Thanks to @Ciggavelli for answering a ton of questions I threw at him over a long period of time



congratulations man! oh my.. what a setup! that is dream gear and end game for many right there..!


----------



## jlbrach

DJJEZ said:


> Years and years of chasing this amp and finally I pulled the trigger on a WA33 JPS elite. I promised myself I would go a few months without tube rolling....that lasted a few days
> 
> Thanks to @Ciggavelli for answering a ton of questions I threw at him over a long period of time


I am rarely envious of anyones collection here but seeing your collection i am!


----------



## Frankie D

DJJEZ said:


> Years and years of chasing this amp and finally I pulled the trigger on a WA33 JPS elite. I promised myself I would go a few months without tube rolling....that lasted a few days
> 
> Thanks to @Ciggavelli for answering a ton of questions I threw at him over a long period of time


Very nice!

Please post your impressions here on the WA33 vs your Ferrim Orr, Dave and Xi Audio amps using your 1266, Sus and Utopia.  I would love to read what you feel ends up sounding best with what amp.


----------



## innocentblood

Hello everyone, I got a brand new 3ES (standard edition) a few days ago and I have so far had 7hrs on it. I am using stock tubes. I am getting a faint “noise/ crackling sound/ hum” on the right side with my Audeze CRBN. I have never had this issue with my other amps such as WA22 and WA33. The noise gets drowned out once the music kicks in but when I am listening to really quiet albums such as John Scofield (self-titled, ECM, 2022) it is absolutely distracting.

The power cable and XLR interconnects that I am using with the 3ES are the same ones that I used with the WA33. I no longer have the WA33 with me.

I understand brand new amps need to be “burned-in”, especially the stock tubes need to settle in. How much time do I need to give them to settle in before I can be certain that I have an issue with (one or more) of the stock tubes?

This is my first 300B amp so I do not have additional 300B tubes to play around with. I do have access to extra rectifier and driver tubes as they are the same as what I am using on the WA22 currently.

By the way I am attaching a pic of the amp and in the darkness, I can see 2 of the 300B tubes have a blue glow to them. Could this be a contributing factor to the noise that I am hearing?

Any advice that you can give me will be appreciated. Thank you.


----------



## ThanatosVI

innocentblood said:


> Hello everyone, I got a brand new 3ES (standard edition) a few days ago and I have so far had 7hrs on it. I am using stock tubes. I am getting a faint “noise/ crackling sound/ hum” on the right side with my Audeze CRBN. I have never had this issue with my other amps such as WA22 and WA33. The noise gets drowned out once the music kicks in but when I am listening to really quiet albums such as John Scofield (self-titled, ECM, 2022) it is absolutely distracting.
> 
> The power cable and XLR interconnects that I am using with the 3ES are the same ones that I used with the WA33. I no longer have the WA33 with me.
> 
> ...


Try to clean the tube pins of the side with the noise and reinsert them


----------



## joseph69

innocentblood said:


> I am getting a faint “noise/ crackling sound/ hum” on the right side with my Audeze CRBN.


Did you swap the tubes and hear this in the L driver?


----------



## innocentblood

joseph69 said:


> Did you swap the tubes and hear this in the L driver?


I did swap the tubes from left to right while for the rectifier, I removed it and inserted it again. the issue is still there on the R driver. I have no issues with the L driver.


----------



## joseph69

innocentblood said:


> I did swap the tubes from left to right while for the rectifier, I removed it and inserted it again. the issue is still there on the R driver. I have no issues with the L driver.


Is it possible to borrow or take your CRBN to a friends or dealer to eliminate the issue being the CRBN and try another electrostatic amp to eliminate that as well?


----------



## DJJEZ

The JPS version's of both the standard and elite WA33 are gone from woo's site. Anyone know why?
@WooAudio


----------



## Frankie D

DJJEZ said:


> The JPS version's of both the standard and elite WA33 are gone from woo's site. Anyone know why?
> @WooAudio


There were only 3 versions of the WA33 to my knowledge:  Standard, JPS and Elite.  The Elite is a higher level version above the JPS.  

I do still see the JPS version on the abyss website if that is helpful.


----------



## DJJEZ

Frankie D said:


> There were only 3 versions of the WA33 to my knowledge:  Standard, JPS and Elite.  The Elite is a higher level version above the JPS.
> 
> I do still see the JPS version on the abyss website if that is helpful.


Sorry I worded it wrong. I meant WA33 JPS and WA33 Elite JPS. those are the 2 different JPS variants of the WA33


----------



## Frankie D

DJJEZ said:


> Sorry I worded it wrong. I meant WA33 JPS and WA33 Elite JPS. those are the 2 different JPS variants of the WA33


Oh, I see.  The JPS wires upgrade for the Elite is not listed which was a $2,000 upgrade.  I still see it mentioned in the description.  Maybe you can ask them?


----------



## DJJEZ

Frankie D said:


> Oh, I see.  The JPS wires upgrade for the Elite is not listed which was a $2,000 upgrade.  I still see it mentioned in the description.  Maybe you can ask them?


Looks like they've added it to the description as you said and if you want it you have to contact woo


----------



## orrm

Some updates on my buzzing:
None of the Amazon gadgets helped (ifi DC blocker, ifi ground loop fixer, hum filter from the Woo FAQ as well as a cheap isolation transformer with noise filtering.

I emailed Woo with an updated video (available here) and they said it’s probably not the tubes and to test AC voltage from the wall. Did that today and seems to be a stable 118v.

Buzz is not audible through headphones so at least there’s that. Next test is probably a friend’s house but not sure what comes after that. Maybe the PS Audio powerplant.


----------



## DJJEZ (Jun 14, 2022)

Looking for advice on 2A3 tubes. Has anyone tried any other tubes outside of the stock and KR audio 2A3's? I'm trying to make my wa33 lean towards the more tubey and dense side.

Would love to hear anyone's experience with upgrading 2A3 tubes and what they change about the WA33.


----------



## pippen99

I am currently running a quad of RCA 2A3 1951 Black Plates.  I like them as much as the EML I had previously.  I would not recommend EML as their service is substandard.  I had a warranty issue that took over 6 months to resolve and required sending the affected tube to Germany.  Sophia Electric also makes a 2A3.  I cannot speak to the 2A3 but had Sophia tubes in my WA5 to very good effect.

And then there is the coming Takatsuki 2A3 that will be release on July 1.  They are available for preorder on the Woo website for $4400.  I consider the Tak 274B to be the best rectifier made today so I expect the Tak 2A3 to have comparable performance.


----------



## joseph69

@Frankie D 
If I remember correctly there were 4 variants of the WA33.
SE
EE
JPS wiring
JPS EE


----------



## DJJEZ (Jun 16, 2022)

Takatsuki 2A3's. RIP everyone's wallets @ $3600 for a quad matched set.


----------



## pippen99

I just dropped a kidney on a new car.  What else do the Gods want from me?


----------



## orrm

pippen99 said:


> I just dropped a kidney on a new car.  What else do the Gods want from me?


probably your second kidney


----------



## DJJEZ

Who is gonna be the first to buy them and tell us all how they are?


----------



## paradoxper

DJJEZ said:


> Who is gonna be the first to buy them and tell us all how they are?


I have a pair ordered out of curiosity. I really dislike the 2A3 compared to 45 or 300B.


----------



## TDinCali

All this talk of tubes is going to cost me money. 

I’m using KR Audio 2A3’s, KR 274B, Western Electric 417A’s. Can anyone speak to the Taka 274B in terms of the overall sound quality and how it differs from the KR?


----------



## Clive101

TDinCali said:


> All this talk of tubes is going to cost me money.
> 
> I’m using KR Audio 2A3’s, KR 274B, Western Electric 417A’s. Can anyone speak to the Taka 274B in terms of the overall sound quality and how it differs from the KR?


Yes, more defined, delicate treble and bass less bloated. Sorry for the short answer.
Hope it helps ?


----------



## cangle (Jun 17, 2022)

WA33 Elite (stock tubes, no jps wiring) arrived today. @DJJEZ strongly encouraged me to purchase this amp but am glad I did so far. Only listened for an hour so far and amp and tubes have a long way to go with burn in I'm sure. Here are some pics


----------



## Ciggavelli

cangle said:


> WA33 Elite arrived today. @DJJEZ strongly encouraged me to purchase this amp but am glad I did so far. Only listened for an hour so far and amp and tubes have a long way to go with burn in I'm sure. Here are some pics


Welcome to the club 

It’s an amazing amp. It sounds outstanding with stock tubes, but after the burn in, you can further optimize the sound with upgraded tubes.


----------



## Roasty

cangle said:


> WA33 Elite arrived today. @DJJEZ strongly encouraged me to purchase this amp but am glad I did so far. Only listened for an hour so far and amp and tubes have a long way to go with burn in I'm sure. Here are some pics



congrats man! more and more wa33 elites out there..! fomo really makes me feel like changing out my jps edition for an elite jps!


----------



## Frankie D

Ciggavelli said:


> Welcome to the club
> 
> It’s an amazing amp. It sounds outstanding with stock tubes, but after the burn in, you can further optimize the sound with upgraded tubes.


What improvements do the upgraded tubes make over the stock tubes on the Elite?


----------



## Senn-Fi

ThanatosVI said:


> So you hear a hum from the amp itself and not humming noise through the headphones?


This happened to a friend's WA-33 as well.  He was very upset and eventually sent it back to Woo.  They replaced one of the transformers and it apparently came back quiet.


----------



## orrm

Senn-Fi said:


> This happened to a friend's WA-33 as well.  He was very upset and eventually sent it back to Woo.  They replaced one of the transformers and it apparently came back quiet.


Yeah I've been in touch with them, it's not a cheap process considering I need to send it coast to coast twice but I'll probably eventually do it.


----------



## ThanatosVI

orrm said:


> Yeah I've been in touch with them, it's not a cheap process considering I need to send it coast to coast twice but I'll probably eventually do it.


Actually the main reason I invested in the Octave instead of the Wa33.

Whenever something happens out of warranty, shipping costs would kill me


----------



## TDinCali

orrm said:


> Yeah I've been in touch with them, it's not a cheap process considering I need to send it coast to coast twice but I'll probably eventually do it.



Is that because the warranty was up? Or is that they’re policy for warranty work?


----------



## orrm

TDinCali said:


> Is that because the warranty was up? Or is that they’re policy for warranty work?


This is a used WA33 and out of warranty. Has nothing to do with Woo's policy, they've been great communicating so far and supporting.
It's mainly between me and the online store I bought this from that'll require further clarifications and obviously they lost me as a client going forward.


----------



## Ciggavelli

Frankie D said:


> What improvements do the upgraded tubes make over the stock tubes on the Elite?


The same as with the standard wa33.  Improved clarity, soundstage, bass, etc.  It's been a while since I have used the stock tubes, but I really liked the improvement from the upgraded ones.


----------



## Frankie D

Ciggavelli said:


> The same as with the standard wa33.  Improved clarity, soundstage, bass, etc.  It's been a while since I have used the stock tubes, but I really liked the improvement from the upgraded ones.


Thanks.  You have a sweet setup.


----------



## cangle

Brief update on the WA33. So far so good. I listened for a few hours yesterday and today I listened for 3 hours this morning and am starting to listen some more. The amp probably has 10-15 hours on it between listening and letting the amp warm up. So far I have tried 1266, Susvara, and 800S, the 1266 and 800S being my favorite pairings.

1266 has more slam and bass quantity to it. Micro details are clearer and mids are perfect (more intimate and smoother). It does a cool thing where imaging is pin point but things move around the stage in a more fluid way, perhaps this is what people call holographic. Also with vocals you can hear a longer decay and the reflections in the room are very clear.

Susvara sounded good. But it came across a bit dry on this amp and not super involving. Could just be that I’m used to 1266 so will certainly come back to this pairing. I would say it’s the best I’ve heard Susvara just that I had more desire to continue with 1266 and try 800S.

800S really wowed me. I haven’t heard 800S on tubes before and listening today the thinness and lack of bottom end were gone. Instead it sounded better than Susvara on the amp imo. It had more forward mids than the Susvara and a nice pleasant smoothness to the whole frequency range. Bass had impact and good extension. Definitely lacking a bit of low end compared to 1266 or Susvara but not as big of a difference as I’ve heard before.

Tomorrow I will probably give the LCD-5 and Aurorus Borealis a try. I also have a refurbished LCD-4 coming this week from the recent Audeze sale so I’m looking forward to hearing that too.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

TDinCali said:


> All this talk of tubes is going to cost me money.
> 
> I’m using KR Audio 2A3’s, KR 274B, Western Electric 417A’s. Can anyone speak to the Taka 274B in terms of the overall sound quality and how it differs from the KR?


Takatsuki 274B's are extremely well balanced and clean, probably my #1 choice of tubes for sound purity.  Having said that, they're not the warmest tubes in the world.  I can't compare to the KR 2A3, but the KR 274B is rather weak and anemic by comparison.  Very clean, but also very lean.  No meat on the bones.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

orrm said:


> Some updates on my buzzing:
> None of the Amazon gadgets helped (ifi DC blocker, ifi ground loop fixer, hum filter from the Woo FAQ as well as a cheap isolation transformer with noise filtering.
> 
> I emailed Woo with an updated video (available here) and they said it’s probably not the tubes and to test AC voltage from the wall. Did that today and seems to be a stable 118v.
> ...


Sorry for not reading back - is the unit PHYSICALLY buzzing, or is it coming from the output only?


----------



## orrm

ColSaulTigh said:


> Sorry for not reading back - is the unit PHYSICALLY buzzing, or is it coming from the output only?


Physically buzzing - most likely a transformer, according to Woo unlikely it's the tubes. It's not audible through headphones.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

orrm said:


> Physically buzzing - most likely a transformer, according to Woo unlikely it's the tubes. It's not audible through headphones.


Give this a shot.  I know a couple of people that have had the same problem and this resolved the issue.

https://avahifi.com/collections/used-demo-and-quick-ship/products/humdinger-dc-line-blocker


----------



## orrm

ColSaulTigh said:


> Give this a shot.  I know a couple of people that have had the same problem and this resolved the issue.
> 
> https://avahifi.com/collections/used-demo-and-quick-ship/products/humdinger-dc-line-blocker



I tried some similar stuff but have nothing to lose with their satisfaction guarantee. Ordered one. Will update here when it arrives. Thank you for the recommendation.


----------



## Frankie D

orrm said:


> I tried some similar stuff but have nothing to lose with their satisfaction guarantee. Ordered one. Will update here when it arrives. Thank you for the recommendation.


The Humdinger sounds like a good product.  I bookmarked it for future reference.   It may also allow you to get closer to the issue.  Per the description of what it will not do:

It will not “Cure hum caused by a defective noisy power transformer.  If the transformer has a loose core that hums the HumDinger may reduce the hum slightly, but will not eliminate it.”

So if there is still some hum, perhaps the transformer needs to be replaced per the above statement?


----------



## orrm

Frankie D said:


> The Humdinger sounds like a good product.  I bookmarked it for future reference.   It may also allow you to get closer to the issue.  Per the description of what it will not do:
> 
> It will not “Cure hum caused by a defective noisy power transformer.  If the transformer has a loose core that hums the HumDinger may reduce the hum slightly, but will not eliminate it.”
> 
> So if there is still some hum, perhaps the transformer needs to be replaced per the above statement?


Yep I'm trying any options I can find before sending it for inspection and potentially a transformer replacement. I had a ifi DC blocker, ifi ground loop fixer, some Amazon brand line isolator and another hum reducer recommended in the Woo FAQ and none helped. Maybe the HumDinger is the one.


----------



## Lucky87

ColSaulTigh said:


> Takatsuki 274B's are extremely well balanced and clean, probably my #1 choice of tubes for sound purity.  Having said that, they're not the warmest tubes in the world.  I can't compare to the KR 2A3, but the KR 274B is rather weak and anemic by comparison.  Very clean, but also very lean.  No meat on the bones.


What I found that the Tak 274B with stock tubes sounded great bigger sound stage. But when I purchase KR HP 4 x 2A3 1 x 274B with the gold pins everything sounded cleaner and more impactful made the stock tubes sound grainy. I did not like the pairing of 4 x KR 2A3 with the Tak 274B or stock one. I recommend if you go all KR HP tubes stick with them and get a warm clean DAC. I’m running Chord Dave very clean awesome separation and impact but can sound too lean for my liking. Looking at MSB and other DACS now, I’m not a fan of DCS sound with my current gear. Trying to find a natural sounding DAC like the Dave..


----------



## DJJEZ

Lucky87 said:


> What I found that the Tak 274B with stock tubes sounded great bigger sound stage. But when I purchase KR HP 4 x 2A3 1 x 274B with the gold pins everything sounded cleaner and more impactful made the stock tubes sound grainy. I did not like the pairing of 4 x KR 2A3 with the Tak 274B or stock one. I recommend if you go all KR HP tubes stick with them and get a warm clean DAC. I’m running Chord Dave very clean awesome separation and impact but can sound too lean for my liking. Looking at MSB and other DACS now, I’m not a fan of DCS sound with my current gear. Trying to find a natural sounding DAC like the Dave..


The holo may sounds amazing with the wa33, defintley leans towards the more analogue/denser/meatier sound.

Would love to hear an MSB DAC.


----------



## TCaughey

Lucky87 said:


> What I found that the Tak 274B with stock tubes sounded great bigger sound stage. But when I purchase KR HP 4 x 2A3 1 x 274B with the gold pins everything sounded cleaner and more impactful made the stock tubes sound grainy. I did not like the pairing of 4 x KR 2A3 with the Tak 274B or stock one. I recommend if you go all KR HP tubes stick with them and get a warm clean DAC. I’m running Chord Dave very clean awesome separation and impact but can sound too lean for my liking. Looking at MSB and other DACS now, I’m not a fan of DCS sound with my current gear. Trying to find a natural sounding DAC like the Dave..


I find DACs by EMM Labs to be incredibly natural.


----------



## orrm

orrm said:


> Yep I'm trying any options I can find before sending it for inspection and potentially a transformer replacement. I had a ifi DC blocker, ifi ground loop fixer, some Amazon brand line isolator and another hum reducer recommended in the Woo FAQ and none helped. Maybe the HumDinger is the one.


So after back and forth with the store I bought it from, I’m shipping back the WA33 to them as they are not willing to cover the shipping and potential cost of fixing the buzzing with Woo directly. They did offer me a small compensation but I don’t know that’ll cover even the shipping both ways for this heavy beast.

That’s pretty disappointing but I want to have a perfect amp for the money I spent…


----------



## iFi audio

DJJEZ said:


> Would love to hear an MSB DAC.



Yes, that's something worth having on the bucket list for sure


----------



## DJJEZ

iFi audio said:


> Yes, that's something worth having on the bucket list for sure


I have one coming soon


----------



## iFi audio

DJJEZ said:


> I have one coming soon



Considering all the feedback about MSB you should have fun to say the least


----------



## Ciggavelli

DJJEZ said:


> I have one coming soon


Which MSB dac?


----------



## TDinCali

DJJEZ said:


> I have one coming soon



For the love of gawd…have you become a headfi hoarder?!? Do we need to have an intervention? 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## orrm

TDinCali said:


> For the love of gawd…have you become a headfi hoarder?!? Do we need to have an intervention? 🤣🤣🤣


we all need an intervention lol


----------



## Frankie D

orrm said:


> So after back and forth with the store I bought it from, I’m shipping back the WA33 to them as they are not willing to cover the shipping and potential cost of fixing the buzzing with Woo directly. They did offer me a small compensation but I don’t know that’ll cover even the shipping both ways for this heavy beast.
> 
> That’s pretty disappointing but I want to have a perfect amp for the money I spent…


Smart move.  Better to use a dealer in the future that will support you.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

orrm said:


> So after back and forth with the store I bought it from, I’m shipping back the WA33 to them as they are not willing to cover the shipping and potential cost of fixing the buzzing with Woo directly. They did offer me a small compensation but I don’t know that’ll cover even the shipping both ways for this heavy beast.
> 
> That’s pretty disappointing but I want to have a perfect amp for the money I spent…


Looks like you're not far from Long Island - why not get in touch with Woo and bring it directly to them?


----------



## orrm

ColSaulTigh said:


> Looks like you're not far from Long Island - why not get in touch with Woo and bring it directly to them?


I'm in Northern California (SF Bay Area)


----------



## ColSaulTigh

orrm said:


> I'm in Northern California (SF Bay Area)


Oh, I thought I saw Carmel, NY.  If it's Carmel, CA, I've been there - very nice!


----------



## jonathan c

ColSaulTigh said:


> Oh, I thought I saw Carmel, NY.  If it's Carmel, CA, I've been there - very nice!


It had better be nice: Clint Eastwood was mayor. Go ahead, make his day if you’re feeling lucky….


----------



## iFi audio

orrm said:


> we all need an intervention lol



Wanted to write the same thing


----------



## musicman59

jonathan c said:


> It had better be nice: Clint Eastwood was mayor. Go ahead, make his day if you’re feeling lucky….


Ha ha ha, you just missed the last two words of the quote…. today Punk!


----------



## orrm

ColSaulTigh said:


> Give this a shot.  I know a couple of people that have had the same problem and this resolved the issue.
> 
> https://avahifi.com/collections/used-demo-and-quick-ship/products/humdinger-dc-line-blocker



Tested it this morning when it arrived and before packing the WA33 for return, it did not help solve the issue which only strengthens the opinion that it's a internal transformer issue. Thanks for your recommendation though this is a solidly built device, I'm sure it'll work great for others in other situations.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

orrm said:


> Tested it this morning when it arrived and before packing the WA33 for return, it did not help solve the issue which only strengthens the opinion that it's a internal transformer issue. Thanks for your recommendation though this is a solidly built device, I'm sure it'll work great for others in other situations.


Sorry to hear it didn't work.  Also sorry you're gotta send the Woo off.  Hopefully they can figure out your issue.


----------



## jonathan c

musicman59 said:


> Ha ha ha, you just missed the last two words of the quote…. today Punk!


I don’t think that an owner of a Woo WA5-LE and *TWO* WA6SEs (silver, black) can be a ‘punk’….🤔🤣🤣….


----------



## ColSaulTigh

jonathan c said:


> I don’t think that an owner of a Woo WA5-LE and *TWO* WA6SEs (silver, black) can be a ‘punk’….🤔🤣🤣….


Maybe if I add them all together I can have a Woo WA17!


----------



## joseph69

ColSaulTigh said:


> Sorry to hear it didn't work.  Also sorry you're gotta send the Woo off.  Hopefully they can figure out your issue.


He's not sending it off to Woo Audio, he's returning the WA33 to the dealer he purchased it from.


----------



## jonathan c

ColSaulTigh said:


> Maybe if I add them all together I can have a Woo WA17!


…still short of a WA234…🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## ColSaulTigh

jonathan c said:


> …still short of a WA234…🤷🏻‍♂️


...so you're saying I need to buy all the Woo WA6'S AND WA22'S I can find...


----------



## jonathan c

Think of all the Woo 596 => 5U4G adapters that you will need…you can’t have the Woos sharing…🤣


----------



## DJJEZ

Trying out an emission labs 274B in my WA33. Thanks to @ColSaulTigh for the suggestion. The glow on this thing is insane


----------



## ColSaulTigh

DJJEZ said:


> Trying out an emission labs 274B in my WA33. Thanks to @ColSaulTigh for the suggestion. The glow on this thing is insane


Give it plenty of time to burn in before you get the best out of it.  Much better mesh 274B than the Sophia Princess.


----------



## pippen99

Takatsuki 2A3 quad ordered.  Delivery estimate is 2 to 3 weeks.  My first TA-274B fried at 13 months.  Current one is at about the same age.  Hopefully these have been tested to death and are really reliable.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

joseph69 said:


> He's not sending it off to Woo Audio, he's returning the WA33 to the dealer he purchased it from.



to clarify, the seller of the WA33 in discussion is not an authorized dealer. 

Every Woo Audio amplifier purchased after Jan. 1, 2021 from an authorized dealer or factory-direct has a three (3) year warranty against defects.


----------



## DJJEZ

pippen99 said:


> Takatsuki 2A3 quad ordered.  Delivery estimate is 2 to 3 weeks.  My first TA-274B fried at 13 months.  Current one is at about the same age.  Hopefully these have been tested to death and are really reliable.


Awesome. Interested to see what you think


----------



## joseph69

pippen99 said:


> Takatsuki 2A3 quad ordered.  Delivery estimate is 2 to 3 weeks.  My first TA-274B fried at 13 months.  Current one is at about the same age.  Hopefully these have been tested to death and are really reliable.


Looking forward to your impressions, for sure.




HiFiGuy528 said:


> to clarify, the seller of the WA33 in discussion is not an authorized dealer.
> 
> Every Woo Audio amplifier purchased after Jan. 1, 2021 from an authorized dealer or factory-direct has a three (3) year warranty against defects.


Thanks for the clarification, but that doesn't mean the buyer couldn't send it off to Woo to be fixed, it was the cost of shipping that deterred the buyer from doing so. Nice that Woo nw gives a 3yr warranty against defects via an authorized dealer or direct.


----------



## hifixman

Anyone who could share thoughts of sonic difference between woo 33 JPS with Woo23 Luna ( irregardless of the output power and wattage)


----------



## fanteskiller

hifixman said:


> Anyone who could share thoughts of sonic difference between woo 33 JPS with Woo23 Luna ( irregardless of the output power and wattage)


I'm also interested in this question. Can anyone answer it


----------



## tdx

Just in case someone is looking for a WA33, I put mine for sale in classifieds...


----------



## DJJEZ

tdx said:


> Just in case someone is looking for a WA33, I put mine for sale in classifieds...


What did you upgrade to?


----------



## fanteskiller

pippen99 said:


> Takatsuki 2A3 quad ordered.  Delivery estimate is 2 to 3 weeks.  My first TA-274B fried at 13 months.  Current one is at about the same age.  Hopefully these have been tested to death and are really reliable.


Looking forward to your review


----------



## tdx

DJJEZ said:


> What did you upgrade to?


Havent decided yet. Trying out the Niimbus US5, Cayin HA300 Mk2, and I got a Pathos Inpol Ear incoming. And maybe a Riviera AIC-10 but not sure yet.


----------



## ThanatosVI

tdx said:


> Havent decided yet. Trying out the Niimbus US5, Cayin HA300 Mk2, and I got a Pathos Inpol Ear incoming. And maybe a Riviera AIC-10 but not sure yet.


Isn't it quite risky to sell the Wa33 first then?

Or is there something you really dislike about the Wa33?


----------



## tdx

ThanatosVI said:


> Isn't it quite risky to sell the Wa33 first then?
> 
> Or is there something you really dislike about the Wa33?


I already have most of these amps in house so no risk. I have nothing against the WA33, far from it, just trying out different gear...


----------



## ThanatosVI

tdx said:


> I already have most of these amps in house so no risk. I have nothing against the WA33, far from it, just trying out different gear...


I see.

Can you compare them to each other?
I'm especially interested in the Ha300 vs Wa33 comparison


----------



## tdx

ThanatosVI said:


> I see.
> 
> Can you compare them to each other?
> I'm especially interested in the Ha300 vs Wa33 comparison


Will do. I have a new comparison cooking to add to the big one I already posted in the summit fi forum. Just waiting to get all the amps in before I publish it. If you need a quick take before that you can pm me.


----------



## Roasty

the 2a3 takatsuki are tempting.. looking forward to some user reviews here. 

last two days I swapped out the EML 300b 2.5v tubes for the KR 2a3 and I am definitely missing the low end bloom and mid range of the 300b 2.5v tubes. 

KR2a3 sounds punchier, tighter down low but has less "meat/mass", and also, with turn of the volume knob, the upper mids and highs seem to go up first compared to the 300b 2.5v tubes. I can push the volume up higher with the eml tubes and get a more "balanced" sound, whereas with the 2a3 I feel I'm limited by the knob before my ears get annoyed by the highs.


----------



## fanteskiller

WA33 is expensive and I don't think it can be sold so quickly...


----------



## ColSaulTigh

fanteskiller said:


> WA33 is expensive and I don't think it can be sold so quickly...


You'd be surprised.  This hobby tends to work opposite of other hobbies - the more expensive the item, the more rare it is to see in the wild, the faster it sells.


----------



## ThanatosVI

ColSaulTigh said:


> You'd be surprised.  This hobby tends to work opposite of other hobbies - the more expensive the item, the more rare it is to see in the wild, the faster it sells.


It depends. 
My Octave is super rare for instance,  but certainly doesn't sell fast.

Not that this is a bad thing, makes me enjoy it for longer...


----------



## mahesvara

Roasty said:


> the 2a3 takatsuki are tempting.. looking forward to some user reviews here.
> 
> last two days I swapped out the EML 300b 2.5v tubes for the KR 2a3 and I am definitely missing the low end bloom and mid range of the 300b 2.5v tubes.
> 
> KR2a3 sounds punchier, tighter down low but has less "meat/mass", and also, with turn of the volume knob, the upper mids and highs seem to go up first compared to the 300b 2.5v tubes. I can push the volume up higher with the eml tubes and get a more "balanced" sound, whereas with the 2a3 I feel I'm limited by the knob before my ears get annoyed by the highs.



I have the Takatsuki 2A3 tubes. I wrote up my impression of them vs my old tubes in this post in the Diana thread. The 2A3 are very good and play especially well with Abyss headphones. Like the Takatsuki 274B rectifier, the 2A3 tubes are mids-centric, ultra smooth, and warm and lush, with plenty of oomph.


----------



## Contrails

I am on the lookout for an used WA33. But waiting for the Aus dollar to climb back up and hopefully Woo will release a mk2 version of the WA33 so I can finally afford the gen 1 WA33.


----------



## jonathan c

Contrails said:


> I am on the lookout for an used WA33. But waiting for the Aus dollar to climb back up and hopefully Woo will release a mk2 version of the WA33 so I can finally afford the gen 1 WA33.


Back up to $ ?? USD per $ AUD…


----------



## hifixman

Contrails said:


> I am on the lookout for an used WA33. But waiting for the Aus dollar to climb back up and hopefully Woo will release a mk2 version of the WA33 so I can finally afford the gen 1 WA33.


There are already five version of Wa33 complicated enough to have a nother version. I was thinking maybe Wa44


----------



## Contrails

jonathan c said:


> Back up to $ ?? USD per $ AUD…


Yep might be a while so I just gotta be patient.


----------



## Frankie D

mahesvara said:


> I have the Takatsuki 2A3 tubes. I wrote up my impression of them vs my old tubes in this post in the Diana thread. The 2A3 are very good and play especially well with Abyss headphones. Like the Takatsuki 274B rectifier, the 2A3 tubes are mids-centric, ultra smooth, and warm and lush, with plenty of oomph.


 Nice review. Thank you.  You have me interested in the Lina.  However we probably have a bit different taste as I feel the 1266 is a good bit better then the Diana TC.


----------



## orrm

HiFiGuy528 said:


> to clarify, the seller of the WA33 in discussion is not an authorized dealer.
> 
> Every Woo Audio amplifier purchased after Jan. 1, 2021 from an authorized dealer or factory-direct has a three (3) year warranty against defects.


I have only good things to say about the communication with Woo and trying to troubleshoot the problem from afar.

What eventually led to my decision is minimizing cost and risk and being able to agree with the store on returning for a full refund.

I'm still very much interested in getting a WA33 but am waiting for an Elite to show up or once I return from some travel if there's any nice deals out there. 

I miss the sound signature (especially since my only amp at the moment is the Enleum) but might go for a CFA3 soon to satisfy my curiosity.


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (Jul 20, 2022)

Contrails said:


> I am on the lookout for an used WA33. But waiting for the Aus dollar to climb back up and hopefully Woo will release a mk2 version of the WA33 so I can finally afford the gen 1 WA33.



No WA33 MK2 version in the works.


----------



## DJJEZ

HiFiGuy528 said:


> *No WA33 MK2 version in the works.*


This is excellent news as I just bought mine a few months back lol


----------



## pippen99

The Takatsuki 2A3 Quad has landed(again).  The first quad had a dud in it.  A big shout out to the people at Parts Connexion.  One phone call got me a UPS return label the next day and the replacement pair were on the way even before the defective pair were out of town.  I know you all want to hear impressions and I was anxious to oblige.  Unfortunately a set of circumstances have converged together at the same time.  Right now I am using my DAP as a source due to my Rossini being in Massachusetts for an hardware upgrade.  I had hoped it would be back by now but no joy.  So I am getting a tube upgrade and a DAC upgrade at the same time.  It is going to be difficult figuring out where all the improvement is coming from but with both I am expecting some kind of audio heaven.


----------



## pippen99

A little less than 20 hours in I can tell these tubes are special.  Despite using my DAP as a source I am experiencing a bigger soundstage, better instrument separation and better bass response.  The bad news is my Rossini is at least two weeks away so I am burning these tubes in and then will have to burn in the Rossini.  I am so confident in the superiority of the Taks that I have put my quad of 1951 RCA 2A3 Nos Black Plates up for sale.  Hit me up if any interest.


----------



## Lucky87

pippen99 said:


> A little less than 20 hours in I can tell these tubes are special.  Despite using my DAP as a source I am experiencing a bigger soundstage, better instrument separation and better bass response.  The bad news is my Rossini is at least two weeks away so I am burning these tubes in and then will have to burn in the Rossini.  I am so confident in the superiority of the Taks that I have put my quad of 1951 RCA 2A3 Nos Black Plates up for sale.  Hit me up if any interest.


Thank you for sharing.

Are you using the TAK 274B as well, with Gold pins


----------



## pippen99

My current lineup: (4)Takatsuki 2A3, Takatsuki 274B and (4) Western Electric 417a.


----------



## pippen99

Took delivery of a Lumin T2 that will go into my second system when my Rossini comes home from the upgrade center.  I put the T2 into my system in place of my DAP.  Now I can really appreciate how good these Tak 2A3s are.  What I said before about soundstage and instrument separation is now more evident than ever.  Perhaps the most fruitful upgrade I have made.


----------



## ahossam

MrCypruz said:


> Found a great solution on Amazon to keep the WA33 relatively cool: This amazing smart fan. I set it in smart mode underneath my WA33 and it triggers the fans when the temperature reaches 88 degF. The fans extract the heat from the transformer to the back. It’s small, low key, quiet, smart and relatively cheap. It was a great buy for me and thought that some WA33 owners might find it interesting as well. For the price, given that it may increase the longevity of the transformer and other internal components, this is a steal and a must have imho.



I do the same with my WA33, but I do it in a tradisional way with two low noise portable fan attach at each side of the amp. It really bring down the temp significantly when the amp runs for an extended period of time.


----------



## hifixman

I was just wondering if any folks have heard Woo W234 Mono Version II and may share some sonic impression or comparison? I really appreciate the quality bass and low extensions from 3SE which I didn't get from Wa33 nor Wa33 Elite.


----------



## atya35mm

Hello fellow WA33 owners, just thought I share this finding after couple of days testing. I'm a Susvara owner and always looking for the next best thing to power the Susvara which I'm sure most of you are doing the same thing. I recently found that using WA33 as pre into another power amp (in my case Ferrum stack) works wonders to improve the bass definition and even micro details. Tracks are just much easier to listen to, with more meat to the bone, where else ABing to directly from WA33, tones are leaner and less present. 

I can't quite explain this, but others like @linshu1992 are experiencing the same thing. 

Also side note, Ferrum stack by itself felt lacking compared to WA33 which is per expectation. I was actually just looking for a solid state amp as a companion to the WA33, but found this preamp method which is surprising. 

Would be keen to hear others opinion and if they have tried this.


----------



## Roasty

I have your combo too but I prefer ferrum stack alone rather than with wa33 as a pre. agree with your findings tho. to me, the combo seems to veer too much to a neutral sound (which is odd). I like the wa33 alone over using it as a pre. to me, it's a headamp first; unfair tho as I have a nice Primaluna pre which blows it out of the water if comparing as pre to pre.


----------



## atya35mm

Roasty said:


> I have your combo too but I prefer ferrum stack alone rather than with wa33 as a pre. agree with your findings tho. to me, the combo seems to veer too much to a neutral sound (which is odd). I like the wa33 alone over using it as a pre. to me, it's a headamp first; unfair tho as I have a nice Primaluna pre which blows it out of the water if comparing as pre to pre.


Hmmm yeap, that is bothering me a bit, as in just using WA33 as a pre. Might have to investigate this primaluna


----------



## Clive101

@atya35mm and anyone else.
I have the same itch, having a Solid State amp in addition to the WA33 EE JPS.
Recently tried the EF1000 (Hybrid amp) with the Susvara (I will post the comparison with the WA33 out later today on the Susvara thread).
BUT, thought I might use the WA33 as a preamp with the ABH2.
Has anyone experience of the two together with Susvara ?


----------



## atya35mm

Clive101 said:


> @atya35mm and anyone else.
> I have the same itch, having a Solid State amp in addition to the WA33 EE JPS.
> Recently tried the EF1000 (Hybrid amp) with the Susvara (I will post the comparison with the WA33 out later today on the Susvara thread).
> BUT, thought I might use the WA33 as a preamp with the ABH2.
> Has anyone experience of the two together with Susvara ?


@linshu1992 currently doing exactly that. Very favorable impressions. 

But wait, are you saying you have the EF1000 and you're still amp hunting?


----------



## Clive101

atya35mm said:


> @linshu1992 currently doing exactly that. Very favorable impressions.
> 
> But wait, are you saying you have the EF1000 and you're still amp hunting?


Yes, I am having a final listen to the EF1000 today and then packing it up for return.
Still looking for the an additional amp.


----------



## atya35mm

Currently my impression with the WA33 preamp into Ferrum stack, is that it has all the details and soundstage of the WA33, but the Ferrum just calms everything down, making the micro details more present, more satisfying bass. Also, I'm detecting the mid range like vocals seems more forward and bit glaring if I go WA33 direct, but with Ferrum in the chain, it pushes the forward back and smooths it down making vocals more to my taste. Not sure trying another preamp will be better, but there goes more experimenting!


----------



## Drewligarchy

Pass, after months delayed, finally in the house. Next - see how the Woo Wa33 elite synergizes as a preamp with after it's fully broken in. I don't know if you can improve on this amp though ....

Also going to get some pro help positioning speakers and running ARC, which these ML13As have. It's been a while to get everything right because the first set of speakers had a defect. Dealer and Martin Logan were great and gave me a brand new set. Everything's working great. Now onto break in and optimize everything.


----------



## atya35mm

hi there, anyone uses the sophia electric 274b as rectifier? Keen to hear how it compares to KR Audio and Tak.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

I don't have a WA33, but in my WA6-SE's and my WA5-LE's the rectifiers make a big difference.  The Sophia Princess 274B is a nice, big, bold sounding rectifier, albeit a bit bloomy and rich.  The standard KR-Audio 274B is (IMO) anemic.  It lacks any strength and suffers from tube fade.  The Takatsuki is a great rectifier, nice and strong, adding a certain sweetness to the sound.

Having said that, I'm currently running Elrog 5U4G's in my WA5-LE and they're the best rectifiers (and 300B's) I've ever heard.  Period, full stop.

YMMV


----------



## paradoxper

ColSaulTigh said:


> I don't have a WA33, but in my WA6-SE's and my WA5-LE's the rectifiers make a big difference.  The Sophia Princess 274B is a nice, big, bold sounding rectifier, albeit a bit bloomy and rich.  The standard KR-Audio 274B is (IMO) anemic.  It lacks any strength and suffers from tube fade.  The Takatsuki is a great rectifier, nice and strong, adding a certain sweetness to the sound.
> 
> Having said that, I'm currently running Elrog 5U4G's in my WA5-LE and they're the best rectifiers (and 300B's) I've ever heard.  Period, full stop.
> 
> YMMV


Ah, the Elrogospel spreading far and wide.


----------



## musicman59

Did they fix their durability issues?
I went that way when I had my WA5-LE and it was a painful experience….


----------



## ColSaulTigh

musicman59 said:


> Did they fix their durability issues?
> I went that way when I had my WA5-LE and it was a painful experience….


It appears so, yes.  New owners, new manufacturing QC in place.  If you do go that route (which I highly recommend), get the 5U4G and not the 274B.


----------



## DJJEZ

ColSaulTigh said:


> It appears so, yes.  New owners, new manufacturing QC in place.  If you do go that route (which I highly recommend), get the 5U4G and not the 274B.


How come you don't recommend the elrog 274b?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

DJJEZ said:


> How come you don't recommend the elrog 274b?


I tried a pair, they did not play well with the WA5-LE.  Has to do with the plate voltage (I think, I'm not an expert).  The Elrog 274B is not fully compatible.  Hopefully someone with more technical knowledge can explain it better than I can.


----------



## joseph69

ColSaulTigh said:


> It appears so, yes.  New owners, new manufacturing QC in place.  If you do go that route get the 5U4G (which I highly recommend),
> 
> 
> ColSaulTigh said:
> ...


You can't really "recommend" the 5U4G over the 274B (or either) because you're using them in a totally different amplifier so the results will differ.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

joseph69 said:


> You can't really "recommend" the 5U4G over the 274B (or either) because you're using them in a totally different amplifier so the results will differ.


Fair point.


----------



## deutscherhififan

Changing the topic slightly..... I have searched this thread and not found an answer, so I think it is ok to ask  . 20 years ago Jack Woo built me a custom WA2 with remote volume. I was an idiot and sold it, but am playing with the idea of using a WA33 as a preamp (70% of use) and headphone amp (30% of use). However, without remote volume it would be a pain and hence I was wondering if anybody here has inquired with Woo Audio regarding the possibility of remote volume. I own a Woo Audio WA22 and am currently using it as a preamp and believe it sounds fabulous. So, the thought is the WA33 would be even better in that regard, but remote volume is a deal breaker for me. Maybe Woo has grown so much that they don't accommodate such requests anymore. To be honest, Jack was not fired about it way back then, but he still did it and it worked great without any negative impact on sound quality. The audiophile mind never stops wandering and wondering....


----------



## Roasty

deutscherhififan said:


> Changing the topic slightly..... I have searched this thread and not found an answer, so I think it is ok to ask  . 20 years ago Jack Woo built me a custom WA2 with remote volume. I was an idiot and sold it, but am playing with the idea of using a WA33 as a preamp (70% of use) and headphone amp (30% of use). However, without remote volume it would be a pain and hence I was wondering if anybody here has inquired with Woo Audio regarding the possibility of remote volume. I own a Woo Audio WA22 and am currently using it as a preamp and believe it sounds fabulous. So, the thought is the WA33 would be even better in that regard, but remote volume is a deal breaker for me. Maybe Woo has grown so much that they don't accommodate such requests anymore. To be honest, Jack was not fired about it way back then, but he still did it and it worked great without any negative impact on sound quality. The audiophile mind never stops wandering and wondering....



If you're going to use it as a preamp most of the time, how about just getting a dedicated tube preamp with remote, and using your wa22 for headphones or even an additional headamp to complement eg a nice SS one? would probably add up to a similar amount, or even less.


----------



## Darkliner

deutscherhififan said:


> Changing the topic slightly..... I have searched this thread and not found an answer, so I think it is ok to ask  . 20 years ago Jack Woo built me a custom WA2 with remote volume. I was an idiot and sold it, but am playing with the idea of using a WA33 as a preamp (70% of use) and headphone amp (30% of use). However, without remote volume it would be a pain and hence I was wondering if anybody here has inquired with Woo Audio regarding the possibility of remote volume. I own a Woo Audio WA22 and am currently using it as a preamp and believe it sounds fabulous. So, the thought is the WA33 would be even better in that regard, but remote volume is a deal breaker for me. Maybe Woo has grown so much that they don't accommodate such requests anymore. To be honest, Jack was not fired about it way back then, but he still did it and it worked great without any negative impact on sound quality. The audiophile mind never stops wandering and wondering....


I think its best to ask Woo Audio directly.


----------



## deutscherhififan

Roasty said:


> If you're going to use it as a preamp most of the time, how about just getting a dedicated tube preamp with remote, and using your wa22 for headphones or even an additional headamp to complement eg a nice SS one? would probably add up to a similar amount, or even less.


Thanks. I have an amazing two box Supratek Grange preamp plus the WA22, that's three boxes. I was thinking of ways to reduce box count without loss of fidelity through headphones or speakers. Price-wise it would be comparable. I will ask Woo, see what they say.


----------



## musicinmymind

How well WA33 drive speakers?
output is rated at 10 watt @32 ohms, how to equate @6 ohms .

my Harbeth C7ES-3 XD has Impedance @6 ohms and easy to drive


----------



## ThanatosVI

musicinmymind said:


> How well WA33 drive speakers?
> output is rated at 10 watt @32 ohms, how to equate @6 ohms .
> 
> my Harbeth C7ES-3 XD has Impedance @6 ohms and easy to drive


At 86db sensitivity the Wa33 should be able to drive them with ease.

@HiFiGuy528  can you confirm this?


----------



## ToMa TomA

Does anyone have an opinion on what would be the more worthwhile purchase if you already own a wa33 and susvara headphones:

Adding the ahb2 amp so you can experience a SS amp and also using the wa33 as a pre or purchasing the abyss 1266 headphones to use with the wa33 alone?


----------



## orrm

ToMa TomA said:


> Does anyone have an opinion on what would be the more worthwhile purchase if you already own a wa33 and susvara headphones:
> 
> Adding the ahb2 amp so you can experience a SS amp and also using the wa33 as a pre or purchasing the abyss 1266 headphones to use with the wa33 alone?


I'd vote for another pair of headphones, it's going to be massively different than trying another amp for the Susvara.
Considering you already have a high end amp and it pairs magically with the 1266, you'll get much more for your money (you'll be spending more as well).
This setup will give you much more flexibility and different experiences than just adding more power to the Sus, it's not like it doesn't match well with the WA33.
I happen to have the same setup


----------



## hifixman

ToMa TomA said:


> Does anyone have an opinion on what would be the more worthwhile purchase if you already own a wa33 and susvara headphones:
> 
> Adding the ahb2 amp so you can experience a SS amp and also using the wa33 as a pre or purchasing the abyss 1266 headphones to use with the wa33 alone?


Buy a speaker amp


----------



## ThanatosVI

ToMa TomA said:


> Does anyone have an opinion on what would be the more worthwhile purchase if you already own a wa33 and susvara headphones:
> 
> Adding the ahb2 amp so you can experience a SS amp and also using the wa33 as a pre or purchasing the abyss 1266 headphones to use with the wa33 alone?


Imo you get more enjoyment out of a second headphone than out of a second amp for the Susvara.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

ToMa TomA said:


> Does anyone have an opinion on what would be the more worthwhile purchase if you already own a wa33 and susvara headphones:
> 
> Adding the ahb2 amp so you can experience a SS amp and also using the wa33 as a pre or purchasing the abyss 1266 headphones to use with the wa33 alone?


What about an R2R DAC and/or DDC?  What's your source material?


----------



## ToMa TomA (Oct 7, 2022)

ColSaulTigh said:


> What about an R2R DAC and/or DDC?  What's your source material?


I am waiting for delivery of an MSB select 2 dac. I've just spent the last couple of months trying to decide between that or a DCS stack and for the WA33 and susvara I preferred the MSB although the DCS is also great. Source material is roon.


----------



## musicman59

I would also go with another pair of headphones to have a different flavor in sound.
The WA-33 is already a great headphones amp. If you have not upgraded tubes yet I would do that before buying a SS amp but that’s me…


----------



## Ciggavelli

I too would agree with going with another pair of headphones.  The 1266 TCs and WA33 are amazing together, and have amazing combo synergy.


----------



## Ciggavelli (Oct 7, 2022)

Also, I finally got another interconnect to use my 3ES Elite as a pre-amp into my WA33 EE JPS.  It's crazy tube overkill, but it does change the character a bit.  I'm still working on figuring out what exactly that difference is though.  Things sound a bit more airy compared to no preamp.  I feel like bass might even be a bit different (it might be hitting harder, perhaps).  I'll continue to experiment, but adding in 300B tubes is interesting


----------



## hifixman (Oct 7, 2022)

ToMa TomA said:


> I am waiting for delivery of an MSB select 2 dac. I've just spent the last couple of months trying to decide between that or a DCS stack and for the WA33 and susvara I preferred the MSB although the DCS is also great. Source material is roon.


I prefer soulnote D3,X3,P3 and Z3 as source if you check their engineering design and materials being used, and more importantly the sound which you could demo in Capital Audio show next month, it is clear the soulnote 3 is more natural, realistic, musical, airy, less colored with analogueness.Good sound is a result of good design and materials.


----------



## pippen99

I have made two recent changes that has brought my WA33 to a whole new level.  You mentioned trying a dCS stack.  Was this the new Apex model?  I am about 80 hours into burning in my Rossini Apex upgrade and the change is very noticeable.  I am also about 300 hours into the new Takatsuki 2A3 power tubes.  They are a noticeable upgrade from all the previous power tubes I have tried.  My WA33 sounds better than ever.


----------



## Frankie D

Ciggavelli said:


> Also, I finally got another interconnect to use my 3ES Elite as a pre-amp into my WA33 EE JPS.  It's crazy tube overkill, but it does change the character a bit.  I'm still working on figuring out what exactly that difference is though.  Things sound a bit more airy compared to no preamp.  I feel like bass might even be a bit different (it might be hitting harder, perhaps).  I'll continue to experiment, but adding in 300B tubes is interesting


I am not understanding.  The WA33 EE is already an integrated amp ( preamp and amp ).  Why go through the 3ES?  Wouldn’t that really be preamp > preamp > amp ?


----------



## Ciggavelli

Frankie D said:


> I am not understanding.  The WA33 EE is already an integrated amp ( preamp and amp ).  Why go through the 3ES?  Wouldn’t that really be preamp > preamp > amp ?


It's really technically 3 preamps because there are 3 places I can adjust volume (Chord DAVE, 3ES Elite, and then WA33 EE JPS).  The 3ES is not needed at all; I'm just experimenting with it.  The benefit to it basically is that I can use more tubes in my chain, and more specifically 300B tubes.


----------



## ToMa TomA

pippen99 said:


> I have made two recent changes that has brought my WA33 to a whole new level.  You mentioned trying a dCS stack.  Was this the new Apex model?  I am about 80 hours into burning in my Rossini Apex upgrade and the change is very noticeable.  I am also about 300 hours into the new Takatsuki 2A3 power tubes.  They are a noticeable upgrade from all the previous power tubes I have tried.  My WA33 sounds better than ever.


I was doing an a/b between the msb reference and the new rossini apex and clock. I have the ta-2a3 tubes (so far that’s the only tube upgrade) as well and it sounded phenomenal with the rossini apex. The biggest difference was that I seemed to notice more details from classical in particular with the msb which made listening even more fun. I actually went into the comparison not wanting the msb to win as I wasn’t a fan of the msb dealer but loved the dcs dealer. Needless to say this is a slippery slope as I’m now looking at cabling, tube upgrades, ssd amps etc


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Ciggavelli said:


> It's really technically 3 preamps because there are 3 places I can adjust volume (Chord DAVE, 3ES Elite, and then WA33 EE JPS).  The 3ES is not needed at all; I'm just experimenting with it.  The benefit to it basically is that I can use more tubes in my chain, and more specifically 300B tubes.


If you want to add more 300B's, why didn't you say so!

Pick up one of these and you'll be in hog heaven!

https://www.acuhorn.pl/acuhorn-R2RXT.htm


----------



## paradoxper

ColSaulTigh said:


> If you want to add more 300B's, why didn't you say so!
> 
> Pick up one of these and you'll be in hog heaven!
> 
> https://www.acuhorn.pl/acuhorn-R2RXT.htm


Don't give away secrets!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

paradoxper said:


> Don't give away secrets!


Can't let you have all the fun!


----------



## joseph69

Ciggavelli said:


> The 1266 TCs and WA33 are amazing together, and have amazing combo synergy.


I agree 100% about the 1266 TC/WA33 combo.
I personally didn't care for the Susvara/WA33 combo much.


----------



## paradoxper

ColSaulTigh said:


> Can't let you have all the fun!


I like your thinking!


----------



## Ciggavelli

joseph69 said:


> I agree 100% about the 1266 TC/WA33 combo.
> I personally didn't care for the Susvara/WA33 combo much.


I agree with the Susvara/WA33 sentiment on the standard version of the WA33.  I feel the Susvara sounds better off the WA33 Elite though. Not as good as the 1266 TCs, but still good.


----------



## jlbrach

Ciggavelli said:


> I agree with the Susvara/WA33 sentiment on the standard version of the WA33.  I feel the Susvara sounds better off the WA33 Elite though. Not as good as the 1266 TCs, but still good.


the susvara to me has been a revelation out of the CFA3 I recently got....for those who are fans of the susvara this is nirvana


----------



## ahossam

What's tubes config for WA33 std jps that sound more euphonic or tubey, I have all KR HP tubes and WE417A tubes for a week now, and I feel like its sound a bit thin, need more weight or bass.

Any suggestions will be much appreciated, thanks.


----------



## linshu1992

ahossam said:


> What's tubes config for WA33 std jps that sound more euphonic or tubey, I have all KR HP tubes and WE417A tubes for a week now, and I feel like its sound a bit thin, need more weight or bass.
> 
> Any suggestions will be much appreciated, thanks.


I may try a speaker amp with WA33 as a pre. But this depends on what headphones you use. For Susvara, this does wonders. For 1266 TC, there is still improvement but may not be enough for you.


----------



## deutscherhififan

Darkliner said:


> I think its best to ask Woo Audio directly.


Yep I asked. The answer was that the chassis is too packed with (high quality) parts already so that remote volume can't be accommodated, space-wise.


----------



## joseph69

ahossam said:


> What's tubes config for WA33 std jps that sound more euphonic or tubey, I have all KR HP tubes and WE417A tubes for a week now, and I feel like its sound a bit thin, need more weight or bass.
> 
> Any suggestions will be much appreciated, thanks.


Give your new tubes a MUCH longer period of time to settle/burn in than a week and then listen to the results before coming to any conclusions. OTOH, this is not the first time I've read that the KR HP tubes sounded thin unless that was you who had posted that some time ago?


----------



## ahossam

joseph69 said:


> Give your new tubes a MUCH longer period of time to settle/burn in than a week and then listen to the results before coming to any conclusions. OTOH, this is not the first time I've read that the KR HP tubes sounded thin unless that was you who had posted that some time ago?


Yeah, maybe i'm drawing conclusion too soon, I will give them more time so they can break in properly.


----------



## Death_Block (Oct 15, 2022)

Sonic77 said:


> Not The Elite version, this will be my first Tube hp amp so the regular version should be more then enough for me.


I could only chuckle at this lmao
*Hugs the loxjie p20


----------



## weipei

HI guys. I knew WA33 can be getting very hot. Mine is elite with JDS wires. it runs so hotly it burns my skin if I touch it. I measured with an Oven thermometer, it shows 130 degrees Fahrenheit

Is it normal?

My common sense tells me that electronics can't last long when operating in such high heat environment consistently.


----------



## paradoxper

weipei said:


> HI guys. I knew WA33 can be getting very hot. Mine is elite with JDS wires. it runs so hotly it burns my skin if I touch it. I measured with an Oven thermometer, it shows 130 degrees Fahrenheit
> 
> Is it normal?
> 
> My common sense tells me that electronics can't last long when operating in such high heat environment consistently.


That should mostly be the power supply. The electronics will wear out quicker but all things do. If the amp was P2P, it would have a longer life.
And if you haven't looked at WA33 internals, they also have on-board heatsinks.


----------



## MasonStorm

Had to take a moment to praise the USAF 596 rectifier when used in this amp.  Now I know why I bought this amp, and this rectifier!  I originally bought a pair of these 596's in 2019 to use in my WA-234 monoblocks, but absolutely HATED them in there.  Tinny, shrill, peaky, bassless and just plain awful.  These rectifiers were laid to rest in a Pelican case and not seen again...until I got the WA-33 and read so many people praising the 596 being used within it.  Today, I finally dug that Pelican case out of the closet and resurrected a 596.

Well, most of the time, I've only been able to listen to the WA-33 for a day or two before I missed the rich, full-bodied textures of music from the SET topology of the WA-234's, and would swap them back.  (If you get a chance to hear WA-234's using a pair of those ancient, hot air balloon - shaped 45's in it, it will transform your listening.  And that setup still reaches a lower bass frequency - and slams harder - than the WA-33.)  But today, with the 596, I know why the WA-33 is loved.  Today, the WA-234's have SERIOUS competition.  I won't be swapping them back in for a while!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

MasonStorm said:


> Had to take a moment to praise the USAF 596 rectifier when used in this amp.  Now I know why I bought this amp, and this rectifier!  I originally bought a pair of these 596's in 2019 to use in my WA-234 monoblocks, but absolutely HATED them in there.  Tinny, shrill, peaky, bassless and just plain awful.  These rectifiers were laid to rest in a Pelican case and not seen again...until I got the WA-33 and read so many people praising the 596 being used within it.  Today, I finally dug that Pelican case out of the closet and resurrected a 596.
> 
> Well, most of the time, I've only been able to listen to the WA-33 for a day or two before I missed the rich, full-bodied textures of music from the SET topology of the WA-234's, and would swap them back.  (If you get a chance to hear WA-234's using a pair of those ancient, hot air balloon - shaped 45's in it, it will transform your listening.  And that setup still reaches a lower bass frequency - and slams harder - than the WA-33.)  But today, with the 596, I know why the WA-33 is loved.  Today, the WA-234's have SERIOUS competition.  I won't be swapping them back in for a while!


The USAF "Mighty" 596 is still one of the best-kept rectifier secrets out there!


----------



## MasonStorm

ColSaulTigh said:


> The USAF "Mighty" 596 is still one of the best-kept rectifier secrets out there!


Oh I just now understood your screen name!  Growing up, that was one of my favorite shows.  I'll start looking out for friends with screen names, "CmdrAdama" and/or "StrikeCaptainApollo."


----------



## ColSaulTigh

MasonStorm said:


> Oh I just now understood your screen name!  Growing up, that was one of my favorite shows.  I'll start looking out for friends with screen names, "CmdrAdama" and/or "StrikeCaptainApollo."


So say we all!


----------



## MasonStorm

ColSaulTigh said:


> So say we all!



The remake was good, granted - but I was thinking of the 1978 original w/actor Lorne Greene (and Terry Carter playing Tigh)!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

MasonStorm said:


> The remake was good, granted - but I was thinking of the 1978 original w/actor Lorne Greene (and Terry Carter playing Tigh)!


Yep, big fan of the original myself.  But the 2003 remake really allowed for the development of the characters, and Tigh is a wonderfully flawed person(?)  Michael Hogan plays him perfectly.  Sadly, he's suffering some major health issues resulting from hitting his head after a fall.


----------



## ahossam

Tubes really takes times to settle and opens up nicely, after underwhelming initial impression with new KR 2A3 HP, KR 274B HP and WE417A now after almost a month, the sound is impressive! No more harshness, piercing high, and flat bass. Now is just pure joy to listen to, very happy doing the upgrade.


----------



## joseph69

ahossam said:


> Tubes really takes times to settle and opens up nicely, after underwhelming initial impression with new KR 2A3 HP, KR 274B HP and WE417A now after almost a month, the sound is impressive! No more harshness, piercing high, and flat bass. Now is just pure joy to listen to, very happy doing the upgrade.


I'll be 100% honest, I find my tubes changing their sound characteristics while continuously using them for years.
By all means I'm not saying tubes take this long to settle/burn in, but this is just my findings. This is why I dint go crazy buying different tubes until years later even though I find myself tempted to do so every now and then.


----------



## ThanatosVI

joseph69 said:


> I'll be 100% honest, I find my tubes changing their sound characteristics while continuously using them for years.
> By all means I'm not saying tubes take this long to settle/burn in, but this is just my findings. This is why I dint go crazy buying different tubes until years later even though I find myself tempted to do so every now and then.


I was once told "tubes continue to improve until they die "
Guess that matches somehow with your findings


----------



## Roasty

anyone tried using the Woo adaptors that come with the Raytheon driver tubes with WE417a tubes? any issues?


----------



## DJJEZ

anyone tried an elrog 5U4G rectifier in their WA33? i'm going to into the next few weeks


----------



## ColSaulTigh

DJJEZ said:


> anyone tried an elrog 5U4G rectifier in their WA33? i'm going to into the next few weeks


No, but I run them in my WA5-LE and WA6-SE.  Best I've ever run - full bodied, strong, and plenty of room to breathe.  Plus they're extremely bright!


----------



## kwilkins

Has anyone heard the WA33 with the new dCS Lina system?  Also interested in comparisons with the Rossini if anyone had heard both.  Thanks.


----------



## pippen99

dCS has always been careful to maintain a distinct performance differential between it's various models.  In this case the Lina does not have the improved mappers that the Bartok recently received.  The Bartok has the 2.0 mappers that the Rossini has had for several years.  This year the Rossini(and Vivaldi) received the Apex Ring DAC hardware upgrade that neither the Lina or Bartok have.  I had the original Rossini for about a year before upgrading to the Apex Ring DAC.  Kudos to dCS for designing the Apex upgrade so that it can be retrofitted to older Rossinis.  The upgrade is noticeable to a remarkable degree.  The soundstage is wider and deeper with consequential instrumental separation a revelation.  I have not heard the Lina or Bartok but simply on a design and software level the order of performance would be Lina<Bartok<Rossini.  Of course this does not take in to account any cosmic synergy that might take place.  With my WA33 EE plus Rossini Apex(Master Clock is essential) I am in audio nirvana.


----------



## cangle

I'm selling my WA33 Elite. https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/woo-audio-wa33-elite.36302/

I really like the amp and the tube rolling options. But, I have been experimenting with speaker amplifiers with headphones and like the results I'm getting there so will be using this sale to fund the purchase of a dedicated preamp and go from there.


----------



## rivonlol

Does anyone have tube rolling recommendations for the WA33 with R2R?


----------



## Roasty

I usually keep my headphones plugged into the wa33. I've had no issues with doing this since I got the wa33. 

recently, after turning on the amp and right after it gets itself ready for listening (led light steady, post flashing sequence), I get a rather loud "click click" sound in my L and R channels. it's loud enough to startle me. doesn't happen all the time, but more often than not. 

is this a sign of some tubes going bad? or something else?


----------



## joseph69

Roasty said:


> I usually keep my headphones plugged into the wa33. I've had no issues with doing this since I got the wa33.
> 
> recently, after turning on the amp and right after it gets itself ready for listening (led light steady, post flashing sequence), I get a rather loud "click click" sound in my L and R channels. it's loud enough to startle me. doesn't happen all the time, but more often than not.
> 
> is this a sign of some tubes going bad? or something else?


I also power on my WA33 with my headphones plugged in (as directed) but never experienced this when the amp is ready to use, and don't know it has to do with a tube going bad. I'd make sure to use an inexpensive headphone upon powering up, though.


----------



## Roasty

joseph69 said:


> I also power on my WA33 with my headphones plugged in (as directed) but never experienced this when the amp is ready to use, and don't know it has to do with a tube going bad. I'd make sure to use an inexpensive headphone upon powering up, though.



now, I have to unplug the hp, turn on the amp, and plug the hp back in after it gets ready. I'll change up the tubes set this weekend and see how it goes.


----------



## joseph69

Roasty said:


> I'll change up the tubes set this weekend and see how it goes.


Good idea. 
I hope it is a tube rather than something with the amp itself. Keep us posted.


----------



## Roasty (Nov 29, 2022)

found a local Elrog dealer and decided to give their rectifiers a go. dealer had both 5u4g and 274b variants in stock. very helpful and informative guy indeed.. I quote:

told him it was for the wa33:

"Class A push pull 2A3s is a very nice configuration. 10W per channel implies that total current is around the 200mA mark. I recommend the 5U4G for better tube life. The 274B is possible bit close to its maximum current capability, which may impact tube life."

and then, after pointing him to the wa33 tubes compatibility chart:

" Thanks. I do see that the Elite version specs the 274B rectifier. It will be ok, IMHO, only if the power supply is a Choke Input. For a Cap input and typical 2A3 operating points of 45mA per 2A3 (the 6C45Ps like a bit of current too…) the 5U4G would remain my recommendation."

"The 274B's are wonderful.  The ELROG ER5U4G's are very close to the ER274B sound wise (both use Thoriated Tungsten Filaments, which is ELROG's "special Sauce")"

I must admit most of the info above I do not understand, and cannot confirm to be right/wrong, but posting here in case someone else does and appreciates or can concur with the information.

I went with the Elrog 5U4G. am getting it later this evening and will fire up the amp and have a listen once the kids are in bed.


----------



## pippen99

Looking forward to your impressions.  Still out of stock in North America.  Why the decision to sell the 417s?


----------



## Roasty

pippen99 said:


> Looking forward to your impressions.  Still out of stock in North America.  Why the decision to sell the 417s?



I bought another set with Woo adaptors.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Roasty said:


> found a local Elrog dealer and decided to give their rectifiers a go. dealer had both 5u4g and 274b variants in stock. very helpful and informative guy indeed.. I quote:
> 
> told him it was for the wa33:
> 
> ...


I had a similar experience with my WA5-LE.  It runs other 274B no problem (EML, Takatsuki, etc.) But in my case it did not like the Elrog 274B (x2) at all.  Blew two fuses testing them before sending them back and going to the 5U4G's.  Those have been perfect ever since.


----------



## Roasty (Nov 30, 2022)

got the Elrog 5u4g!
dealer was great to work with. rec came very well packaged. packed with bubble wrap and an extra outer box. he also gave some freebies; a cloth carry bag and a polo t-shirt.

Elrog apparently checks their tubes and run them in for about 24hrs before shipping them out. Advised another 50 hrs to settle down.

super early impressions:
- silent rec very clean black background
- top end is less "rounded" than tak 274b. very clear highs. reminds me a bit of eml 5u4g, has a bit of bite but not as rough as the eml rec.
- midrange is not as dense/lush as tak274b. leans more towards the kr 274b mids.
- low end is tight and very fast. doesn't seem to extend down as low as the tak274b, but am hoping it will drop down further after some time.
- stage width seems narrower than eml and tak recs

from most SS sounding to most "tubey" tube sound:

eml 5u4g, kr 274b, er5u4g, tak274b 

all in all, I'm pleased with this tube. again, very early impressions but if it gets any better, then great! so far it does seem like a jack of all trades and for the price, I'd say its a great buy! at least it doesn't cost an arm and a leg. and having a local dealer is an added bonus for technical/warranty support. it's a well built tube, looks pretty and different to usual tubes, and am quite relieved there aren't any glaring faults with it.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Roasty said:


> got the Elrog 5u4g!
> dealer was great to work with. rec came very well packaged. packed with bubble wrap and an extra outer box. he also gave some freebies; a cloth carry bag and a polo t-shirt.
> 
> Elrog apparently checks their tubes and run them in for about 24hrs before shipping them out. Advised another 50 hrs to settle down.
> ...


Yes!  Another one joins the Cult of Elrog!!!


----------



## pippen99

I agree the price is attractive versus the Tak but what I am reading is the Elrog would probably end up being a quality backup to my Tak.  I have a NOS USAF 596 for that purpose so not sure there would be a point to purchasing this except curiosity(and that can be expensive).


----------



## rivonlol

Hello all

I am just wondering what everyone’s favorite tube combos are for the WA33 and why that is?

I just got mine and am excited to try tube rolling! 

I currently am looking for KRHP 2A3’s and 274B to pair with WE 417a. Let me know if you’ve heard this and how it compares to others!

Current setup: Holo May > WA33 Elite > Atrium, Verite Closed, Caldera(soon)

Also if anyone is trying to sell the tubes listed above let me know!


----------



## pippen99

My current (and probably final) lineup-Takatsuki 2A3-Takatsuki 274B-WE 417a.
I cannot comment on the KR HP 2A3 as I have never heard them.  I have tried the KR 274B and found it flat and unexceptional next to the Tak 274B.  I even bought the Tak again after my first fried at 13 months and the manufacturer would not give an inch on the warranty.  It is that much better and I have tried most of the well known tubes(KR 274B, USAF 596, Sophia 274B, and Western Electric 422A).  I have not tried the Elrog yet due to out of stock.

The Taks together with the WE417a give a warm yet solid punch which is what I want from a tube amp.

Current setup:  dCS Rossini Apex and Clock>WA33 EE>LCD-5


----------



## pippen99

Meant to add.  Under no circumstances purchase EML.  The owner is a bandit and will do everything and anything to avoid a warranty claim.  Remember *I WARNED YOU!*


----------



## Frankie D

pippen99 said:


> My current (and probably final) lineup-Takatsuki 2A3-Takatsuki 274B-WE 417a.
> I cannot comment on the KR HP 2A3 as I have never heard them.  I have tried the KR 274B and found it flat and unexceptional next to the Tak 274B.  I even bought the Tak again after my first fried at 13 months and the manufacturer would not give an inch on the warranty.  It is that much better and I have tried most of the well known tubes(KR 274B, USAF 596, Sophia 274B, and Western Electric 422A).  I have not tried the Elrog yet due to out of stock.
> 
> The Taks together with the WE417a give a warm yet solid punch which is what I want from a tube amp.
> ...


Great set up.


----------



## joseph69

pippen99 said:


> Meant to add.  Under no circumstances purchase EML.  The owner is a bandit and will do everything and anything to avoid a warranty claim.  Remember *I WARNED YOU!*


I had an issue with 1 of my EML 2A3 tubes and George replaced it under warranty without any issue whatsoever.
I've been running EML 2A3 tubes in my WA33 for years now and really enjoy their sound and wouldn't hesitate to buy them, at all. 
I am sorry for those who have had a bad experience with warranty claims, as well as understanding why they have a bad taste in their mouth.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Curious if anyone has tried the Elrog yet.  Their 274b did not play nice in my Woo WA5-LE, but I may have just gotten a bad one.  Their 5u4gs work perfectly and sound great!


----------



## corbin1

I've owned a WA5 Gen 1 for quite some time now and love it, no complaints.  But I've been a little bitten by the WA33 siren song.  I searched through this thread looking to see if anyone had migrated from the WA5 to the WA33 and had observations.  Best thing they ever did, no comparison between the two, no regrets.  Not enough difference to justify upgrading.  They actually like the WA5 better...     I normally use either LCD-3's or 4's,  4's I use the high gain jack  with my WA5 being  gen 1.  I could really use some advice.  Thanks in advance.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

corbin1 said:


> I've owned a WA5 Gen 1 for quite some time now and love it, no complaints.  But I've been a little bitten by the WA33 siren song.  I searched through this thread looking to see if anyone had migrated from the WA5 to the WA33 and had observations.  Best thing they ever did, no comparison between the two, no regrets.  Not enough difference to justify upgrading.  They actually like the WA5 better...     I normally use either LCD-3's or 4's,  4's I use the high gain jack  with my WA5 being  gen 1.  I could really use some advice.  Thanks in advance.


I'm sorry, but I'm missing the main question here.  What exactly are you asking for advice on?


----------



## corbin1

Sorry, thanks for the reply. Basically if someone who owned a WA5 sold it to upgrade to a WA33 and felt whether or not the upgrade was worth it.  Huge positive  difference, minute negligible difference?   They Love the 33' much more or in retrospect wish they had just stuck with the 5'.  That kind of thing.  Thanks


----------



## ThanatosVI

corbin1 said:


> Sorry, thanks for the reply. Basically if someone who owned a WA5 sold it to upgrade to a WA33 and felt whether or not the upgrade was worth it.  Huge positive  difference, minute negligible difference?   They Love the 33' much more or in retrospect wish they had just stuck with the 5'.  That kind of thing.  Thanks


I heard neither of them but had my eyes on them for a while back then.

From what I gathered back then the Wa33 is more detailed and better extended while the Wa5 has a thicker more Musical sound.

So for quite different tastes and a "direct upgrade" to the Wa5 is more the Wa23 instead of the Wa33.

However this might just be my Interpretation of what I read, I have NO listening experience with any of the Woo Audio amps


----------



## pippen99

I moved from a Gen 1 WA5 to a WA33 EE.  At the time my primary headphones were the LCD-4.  The tubes I had at the time were the upgrade available when new the Sophia Electric Princess 300B and 274B.  Later upgrades became available such as the EML, Elrog, PSVane and Takatsuki power and rectifier tubes.  These might have made a difference in my decision making as the Sophias are good but not top-level.  With the Sophias and the LCD-4 the sound signature was a very warm enveloping almost gooey blanket but I loved it.  I them moved to the WA33EE and the world came into focus.  The WA33 presents a much clearer picture of the recording.  The entire sound spectrum is more focused.  Drums snap, guitars slash, cymbals crash.  Vocal presentation was more lifelike and human.  

Now the downside.  The price to get there is daunting.  I cannot speak to the WA33 base unit.  I went straight to the Elite Edition.  I do not know how  close a base gets to the EE.  I do know that to get the most out of a WA33(actually out of any Woo amp) you are going to spend some serious cash for upgrade tubes.  I went through some serious dollars buying power tubes(EML,RCA,Takatsuki). I bought the Tak 274B right at the start and despite trying a bunch more(KR, WE and USAF) the Tak is king.  To get a truly satisfying sound signature you will spend 3-5$K more on tubes.  Are you prepared for that?  Also you will face the reality and/or the desire to upgrade the rest of your chain.

Of course I would do it again.  I am nuts(look at my signature).


----------



## corbin1

Just looking ahead,  I have a SONY NW-WM1A with the 4.4 balanced and 3.5 standard headphone jacks. If I wanted to use it as a source to output through a WA33 whats the best way to do that?  I have the SONY specific USB  adapter for the port on the bottom for charging and output   but that would exclude DAC.  So I'm thinking a cable with a 4.4 balanced connector on one end and and something on the other end.  Does anyone make a 4.4 balanced to dual RCA?  Or 4.4 balanced to XLR? Or is there an even better method?   I admit I'm cable challenged.  I'd love to pick up something used off HeadFi.   Thanks!


----------



## orrm (Dec 8, 2022)

corbin1 said:


> Just looking ahead,  I have a SONY NW-WM1A with the 4.4 balanced and 3.5 standard headphone jacks. If I wanted to use it as a source to output through a WA33 whats the best way to do that?  I have the SONY specific USB  adapter for the port on the bottom for charging and output   but that would exclude DAC.  So I'm thinking a cable with a 4.4 balanced connector on one end and and something on the other end.  Does anyone make a 4.4 balanced to dual RCA?  Or 4.4 balanced to XLR? Or is there an even better method?   I admit I'm cable challenged.  I'd love to pick up something used off HeadFi.   Thanks!


I'm not familiar with DAPs and if this will even work with your use case but a cheap cable option I can think of is this one by Hart

https://hartaudiocables.com/products/tc-3-4-4mm-pentaconn-to-dual-3-pin-xlr

And Woo also makes one

https://wooaudio.com/accessories/wooaudio-specialty-cables


----------



## lucasratmundo

Any suggestions on where to buy the 417A and matching WA33 adapter? Prices seem to vary drastically between retailers...


----------



## joseph69

Woo Audio


----------



## Shane D

corbin1 said:


> Just looking ahead,  I have a SONY NW-WM1A with the 4.4 balanced and 3.5 standard headphone jacks. If I wanted to use it as a source to output through a WA33 whats the best way to do that?  I have the SONY specific USB  adapter for the port on the bottom for charging and output   but that would exclude DAC.  So I'm thinking a cable with a 4.4 balanced connector on one end and and something on the other end.  Does anyone make a 4.4 balanced to dual RCA?  Or 4.4 balanced to XLR? Or is there an even better method?   I admit I'm cable challenged.  I'd love to pick up something used off HeadFi.   Thanks!


Thrre is a digital line-out cable from Sony, but they don't talk about it in Sony Canada or even Sony USA, I think. I am attaching a pic. I bought it to make my DAP the source for my DAC. Worked great for a long time with my SMSL SU-8. However, it would not work with my Schiit BF2. I had to re-assign a laptop to be my juke box.



I bought it from Amazon, but it had to ship from japan.


----------



## Contrails

Is the WA33 voltage configurable between 110v and 230v like the WA22?


----------



## orrm

Contrails said:


> Is the WA33 voltage configurable between 110v and 230v like the WA22?


No


----------



## rivonlol

Contrails said:


> Is the WA33 voltage configurable between 110v and 230v like the WA22?


There are options for 100v, 110v, 120v

100 for 100-109
110 for 110-119
120 for 120-129


----------



## pippen99

My second Tak 274B in less than three years fried tonight.  Makes me very scared about the 2A3 quad.  Back to the 596 for now.  Hope the Elrog is back in stock soon.  I cannot keep buying these things every 18 months.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

pippen99 said:


> My second Tak 274B in less than three years fried tonight.  Makes me very scared about the 2A3 quad.  Back to the 596 for now.  Hope the Elrog is back in stock soon.  I cannot keep buying these things every 18 months.


Any warranty left on them?


----------



## pippen99

The first one fried at 13 months and they would not budge a bit.  This on I bought used and it lasted about 16 months.  So no joy.


----------



## rivonlol

I’ve been using my KR 274B Monday - Saturday and using the Tak 274B on Sunday only since I keep hearing they fry fast.

Smooth Sundays are nice.

I also want to try the Elrog though. They sound promising!


----------



## pippen99

I have had the stock EH or Sovtek, KR, WE, USAF and Takatsuki.  The Tak stands above all but man I can’t rent the damn thing for $1K every 15 months.


----------



## YungOmbat

pippen99 said:


> The first one fried at 13 months and they would not budge a bit.  This on I bought used and it lasted about 16 months.  So no joy.


damn that sucks, any way to fix it or give it to someone who knows how to fix something like that


----------



## Ciggavelli (Dec 18, 2022)

pippen99 said:


> My second Tak 274B in less than three years fried tonight.  Makes me very scared about the 2A3 quad.  Back to the 596 for now.  Hope the Elrog is back in stock soon.  I cannot keep buying these things every 18 months.


My first fried after a little over a year too. I’m scared for my 2nd one, which is over a year old and my Tak 300Bs which are also over a year old. Taks fry too quickly and they only give you a 1 year warranty. Meanwhile other manufacturers charge less and offer 3 year warranties. I’m considereing never buying a Tak again if mine fry in a little over a year again. A 1 year warranty is not acceptable, especially with how much the Tak’s cost.


----------



## musicinmymind

rivonlol said:


> I’ve been using my KR 274B Monday - Saturday and using the Tak 274B on Sunday only since I keep hearing they fry fast.
> 
> Smooth Sundays are nice.
> 
> I also want to try the Elrog though. They sound promising!



Luckily I am liking KR 274B more than Tak.
Tak has better resolution but bit thin and bright, KR add body which I like.

By the way, how long KR 247b likely to last, mine is few months old with around 200hrs play time.


----------



## pippen99

After two frying in 1+ years I am done with Tak 274B. Fool me once blah blah blah.  I will wait for up to 4 months for Elrog to come back in stock then look for a KR 274B.  The KR comes in second among the other rectifiers I have tried.  I will not pay $3K for a Western Electric and for those of you who know me EML is absolutely not an option.


----------



## paradoxper

Have you guys considered you are running a 5U4G spec with 274B which naturally is going to limit the life of your tubes?

I know it's acceptable to run both but there is no free lunch when doing so.


----------



## Frankie D

paradoxper said:


> Have you guys considered you are running a 5U4G spec with 274B which naturally is going to limit the life of your tubes?
> 
> I know it's acceptable to run both but there is no free lunch when doing so.


The WA33 uses 4 2A3’s and 1 274B ( along with 4 6C45’s ). Are you saying the users mentioning longevity concerns were using the 274B’s where the 2A3’s should go?


----------



## ThanatosVI

Frankie D said:


> The WA33 uses 4 2A3’s and 1 274B ( along with 4 6C45’s ). Are you saying the users mentioning longevity concerns were using the 274B’s where the 2A3’s should go?


The Wa33 actually uses 4x 2A3's and 1x 5U4G rectifier. 

The 274B can be used as direct replacement for 5U4Gs but might not run under ideal parameters, which can negatively impact longevity.

Similar to how you can replace 2A3s with 2.5V 300Bs (i.e. Sophia Electric or EML)


----------



## paradoxper

Frankie D said:


> The WA33 uses 4 2A3’s and 1 274B ( along with 4 6C45’s ). Are you saying the users mentioning longevity concerns were using the 274B’s where the 2A3’s should go?


No. The WA33 is specced with the 5U4G. Not as primary 274B.


----------



## pippen99

And Woo Audios recommended upgrade rectifiers tubes are both 274B(Takatsuki and Sophia).  Apparently Woo does not share your concerns.


----------



## paradoxper

pippen99 said:


> And Woo Audios recommended upgrade rectifiers tubes are both 274B(Takatsuki and Sophia).  Apparently Woo does not share your concerns.


Does that make Woo correct? By example. you could ask Takatsuki, right.

My point was the 274B isn't a direct-replacement in the sense of whole equivalence. 

And the consequence is simple, many tube manufacturers are getting slagged without proper context.

To be fair.


----------



## pippen99

Yes it does make Woo right.  I trust the manufacturer of my amp.


----------



## paradoxper

Here are Thomas Mayer's thoughts:

"This is exactly what I meant that an amp should be designed for a specific rectifier and that should then be used.
If the amp is designed to be able to handle the heater current of the 5U4, a 274B will get over voltage.
The reduced heater current and transformer voltage regulation will result in higher heater voltage which in turn shortens lifetime. These people should not blame Takatsuki but question if their amp really is designed to operate the tubes correctly"


----------



## pippen99

Who is Thomas Mayer and why should I trust him over Jack Woo the man who designed and built the amp?


----------



## paradoxper

pippen99 said:


> Who is Thomas Mayer and why should I trust him over Jack Woo the man who designed and built the amp?


Thomas Mayer is Elrog. You are right. No need to attempt explaining design decisions.


----------



## Frankie D

ThanatosVI said:


> The Wa33 actually uses 4x 2A3's and 1x 5U4G rectifier.
> 
> The 274B can be used as direct replacement for 5U4Gs but might not run under ideal parameters, which can negatively impact longevity.
> 
> Similar to how you can replace 2A3s with 2.5V 300Bs (i.e. Sophia Electric or EML)





paradoxper said:


> No. The WA33 is specced with the 5U4G. Not as primary 274B.


Man, that is confusing as Woo Audio does not state that on their website.  They say the default tubes are:

WA33 or WA33 Elite Edition x 1
Default tubes are same for all versions
2A3 tube x 4
274B tube x 1
6C45 tube x 4
Quick start guide

Do you all know if Woo’s default 274B tube also only lasts a year or so?


----------



## Roasty

Frankie D said:


> Man, that is confusing as Woo Audio does not state that on their website.  They say the default tubes are:
> 
> WA33 or WA33 Elite Edition x 1
> Default tubes are same for all versions
> ...



the elrog dealer made the same observation. he noted the non EE version has 5u4g as the stock rec, and EE has 274b. for my non EE version he recommended 5u4g, as he thought the 274b although compatible may not be as "correct" of a choice as the 5u4g. possibly a different underlying technical spec with the EE?


----------



## orrm

Woo's website actually says both, at the top it's 5u4g and further down it's 274b


----------



## Roasty

orrm said:


> Woo's website actually says both, at the top it's 5u4g and further down it's 274b



Thanks! good to know. I must have missed that too. anyways thankfully no issues with my Tak274b (yet...) I've had it since my wa22 so it's been a good couple of years and still running well.


----------



## Frankie D

Roasty said:


> the elrog dealer made the same observation. he noted the non EE version has 5u4g as the stock rec, and EE has 274b. for my non EE version he recommended 5u4g, as he thought the 274b although compatible may not be as "correct" of a choice as the 5u4g. possibly a different underlying technical spec with the EE?


I see that now.  Near the top of the description Woo Audio lists the 5U4G as the default tube for the WA33.  They list the 274B much lower.  As you said, perhaps there is a design change inside the Elite Edition to use the 274B.  That would be good to understand.  Changing tubes in a year is unacceptable.


----------



## pippen99 (Dec 18, 2022)

Somewhat confusing and at least in my case inaccurate 


.  My EE shipped with a 5U3C as stock rectifier.  Not even sure of the brand.


----------



## Ciggavelli

paradoxper said:


> Have you guys considered you are running a 5U4G spec with 274B which naturally is going to limit the life of your tubes?
> 
> I know it's acceptable to run both but there is no free lunch when doing so.


Interesting.  I did not know that.  It could be the issue.  Still, it doesn't excuse a 1 year warranty, though I know Elrog does that too


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> Interesting.  I did not know that.  It could be the issue.  Still, it doesn't excuse a 1 year warranty, though I know Elrog does that too


I merely point out the fundamental.

I'll leave the audiophiles to bitch as they always do, about everything.

I'd never own a Woo product so what does it matter. I feel sorry for you.


----------



## Ciggavelli

paradoxper said:


> I merely point out the fundamental.
> 
> I'll leave the audiophiles to bitch as they always do, about everything.
> 
> I'd never own a Woo product so what does it matter. I feel sorry for you.


Lol. I thought you might like the 3ES Elite with the 300B tubes, but I know you’re out of the estat arena.

I know you don’t like the WA33, but I don’t remember why. Maybe the 2A3s?


----------



## paradoxper

Ciggavelli said:


> Lol. I thought you might like the 3ES Elite with the 300B tubes, but I know you’re out of the estat arena.
> 
> I know you don’t like the WA33, but I don’t remember why. Maybe the 2A3s?


I don't like Jack's design decisions. As an engineer he has very little accountability.

This stems from a very long time when he had capacitor issues with the 274B arcing, to his WES through no ballast resistor leaving your electrostat headphone free to fry your diaphragms.

It's incompetence.


----------



## pippen99

Elrog ER5U4G are back in stock at Parts ConneXion.  I just placed my order.  Hope that all the praise is deserved.  No more Taks.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

pippen99 said:


> Elrog ER5U4G are back in stock at Parts ConneXion.  I just placed my order.  Hope that all the praise is deserved.  No more Taks.





Put on your sunglasses 😎!


----------



## pippen99

Ordered this morning.  Just received notice of shipment.  Love dealing with Parts ConneXion!


----------



## Tshaff

I was interested in getting an endgame tube amp and was wondering what you guys think. Was debating between the Ampandsound Red October and the Woo Audio WA33 Elite Edition with JPS cables. I want to know if there is any of you who have had the pleasure of listening to both of these amps and can say which one sounds better? The Red October's lifetime warranty is really appealing compared to the WA33 3 year warranty, but if the WA33 EE JPS sounds way better than I would still get it. I have heard Ampandsounds lower end amps compare with amps in this price bracket though so if their Red October could compete or even be better than the WA33 EE I would get it. Any help would really be appreciated please! Thank you!


----------



## ThanatosVI

Does anyone here have Woo Audio 9 pin to 9 pin socket savers and is able to tell me the Dimensions?

I'm curious if they would fit my Octave V16


----------



## pippen99

Received the Elrog ER5U4G this afternoon.  Actually quite impressed with Parts ConneXion and FedEx.  Ordered the morning 12/22 and received the afternoon of 12/27 with Xmas in the middle.  Also remember it had to go through Customs.  After letting it warm to room temp it has been running for about two hours.  If I do not like it I can always sell it to the Coast Guard to use in a lighthouse.  Man this thing is bright!  Anybody have experience or opinion how long it will take the tube to settle in?

I will be unhappy if does not last longer than the Taks(13&15 months).  But if it does not at the purchase price it will still be a less painful hit than when the Taks blew up!


----------



## Roasty

pippen99 said:


> Received the Elrog ER5U4G this afternoon.  Actually quite impressed with Parts ConneXion and FedEx.  Ordered the morning 12/22 and received the afternoon of 12/27 with Xmas in the middle.  Also remember it had to go through Customs.  After letting it warm to room temp it has been running for about two hours.  If I do not like it I can always sell it to the Coast Guard to use in a lighthouse.  Man this thing is bright!  Anybody have experience or opinion how long it will take the tube to settle in?
> 
> I will be unhappy if does not last longer than the Taks(13&15 months).  But if it does not at the purchase price it will still be a less painful hit than when the Taks blew up!



elrog dealer said give it about 50 hrs. 
I'm really liking the 5u4g. very quiet tube, excellent background quietness, and quite dynamic too. just about perfect with the utopia 22.


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## rivonlol

pippen99 said:


> Received the Elrog ER5U4G this afternoon.


Let me know how it compares to the KR 274B and what you can remember from the Tak274B!


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## ColSaulTigh

pippen99 said:


> Received the Elrog ER5U4G this afternoon.  Actually quite impressed with Parts ConneXion and FedEx.  Ordered the morning 12/22 and received the afternoon of 12/27 with Xmas in the middle.  Also remember it had to go through Customs.  After letting it warm to room temp it has been running for about two hours.  If I do not like it I can always sell it to the Coast Guard to use in a lighthouse.  Man this thing is bright!  Anybody have experience or opinion how long it will take the tube to settle in?
> 
> I will be unhappy if does not last longer than the Taks(13&15 months).  But if it does not at the purchase price it will still be a less painful hit than when the Taks blew up!


I've been running mine since June and you're right about the brightness!

They settle down in the 50-100 hour mark, and they've remained strong the entire time.  Someone's put the bug in my ear about the Philips Minniwatt GZ34 metal base tubes, but costing more than the Elrogs has turned me off these.  For now, the Elrog remain king of the castle.

As for lifespan vs. Tak's, I think that has more to do with the fact that the Tak's are 274B's and not designed to run in a 5U4G (while compatible).  Voltage differences will shorten the lifespan, which is why (IMO) they tend to pop more frequently than other tubes.  Takatsuki are built to a very high standard, and in the case of the 274B, that standard is the 274 Rectifier, not a 5U4G.  This is my thought process, and by no means should it be taken as gospel.


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## pippen99

I am about 20 hours in on my Elrog ER5U4G rectifier.  I am going to hold off on comparisons and impressions until the 50 hour threshold. One peculiar behavior I have noticed and am wondering if it is normal.  When turning on the amp the filament(?) in the middle is almost intolerably bright.  It stays that way until the amp finishes it's inital opening cycle and then dims. Is this normal.  None of my other rectifiers have exhibited this behavior.  Video attached.

https://redirect.viglink.com/?forma....ms/u/s!AnanFkRWvAbP8Rp9WXkiBdrDqtOx?e=qLPi6Z


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## paradoxper

pippen99 said:


> I am about 20 hours in on my Elrog ER5U4G rectifier.  I am going to hold off on comparisons and impressions until the 50 hour threshold. One peculiar behavior I have noticed and am wondering if it is normal.  When turning on the amp the filament(?) in the middle is almost intolerably bright.  It stays that way until the amp finishes it's inital opening cycle and then dims. Is this normal.  None of my other rectifiers have exhibited this behavior.  Video attached.
> 
> https://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_167254171283612&key=1e99669452acedd7650a94861c9354cb&libId=lccrfyrw0101zlp1000DL1riihixl6w3oh&loc=https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dubstep-girls-massive-5ar4-5r4-5u4g-rectifier-review-comparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/page-162#post-17325469&v=1&out=https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnanFkRWvAbP8Rp9WXkiBdrDqtOx?e=qLPi6Z&title=(1) Dubstep Girl's Massive 5AR4/5R4/5U4G Rectifier Review/Comparison! (Rectifer Tube Rolling thread) | Page 162 | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org&txt=https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnanFkRWvAbP8Rp9WXkiBdrDqtOx?e=qLPi6Z


You are likely overheating the tube and they will not last long.


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## paradoxper

Here is Thomas Mayer's response:
"
I don’t know if it is normal for this particular amp I would hope not as this is not good for the tubes. But the way the start up delay seems to be implemented indicates that this is normal behaviour of this device.The step in brightness when the delay relays click clearly shows a massive step in filament voltage.
Either it starts normal and after the relays click runs at under voltage, or more likely the tubes are way overheated at start up and then revert to normal.

In either case this is extremely harmful for the tubes and they will not last long.

I assume this is what happens:

At start up only the filament is powered from the mains transformer and the high voltage to the rectifier is disconnected via relay.
Since the heater winding and high voltage winding are on the same power transformer it sees less load as long as no high voltage is drawn.
This causes the output voltages of the transformer to rise above specified value. Once the relays engage the full power is drawn from the transformer and voltages settle at their nominal value. This is normal behaviour of power transformers. It is called voltage regulation.

This is similar when using a 274 instead of 5U4 since the 274 needs much less filament current the output voltage from the transformer is higher than nominal. Due to the delay procedure it is even worse for 274 tubes during start up. No wonder they die quickly.

Since 4 2A3 need to be powered that is a substantial load difference to the power transformer.

Also hitting a fully warmed up tube (and in this case even overheated) with the full load current of 4 2A3 at an instant is not healthy either.

If a 274B has an instant short at first turn on when used like this I am not surprised either

The tubes are clearly operated out of spec and I am very sorry but I cannot recommend to use Elrog tubes in this manner."


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## ThanatosVI

I'm curious what the official response from Woo is.
@pippen99  did you inquire an official response on what's going on during start up?


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## pippen99

I will send off an inquiry now. This BS is out of control.  First I am told I should not use 274B tubes and I try to do the right thing and try the 5U4G and I can't use it either.  I think I was better off with my eyes closed wallowing in blissful ignorance.  I will see what Woo has to say.  I guess my choices are to play it and hope it blows at 11 months and I get another year under warranty or sell it and use tubes(WE 422 or USAF 596) that I have found average in performance.


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## ColSaulTigh

I'm really quite interested in this.  Is it possible your unit is defective?


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## Roasty

with the Elrog 5U4G rec and WA33, during the startup sequence, yes the Elrog is lit quite bright, and the brightness subsides a bit once the WA33 is ready for listening.


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## Roasty

any reply from Woo yet? 

wa33 with the Elrog 5u4g + we417a + kr2a3 hooked up to the Utopia 22 is a really magical combo...


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## innocentblood

I have a feeling that Woo may not recommend a tube that they themselves are not selling. for what it is worth, I do hope you thoroughly enjoy the Elrog while it lasts on your amp.


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## ThanatosVI

innocentblood said:


> I have a feeling that Woo may not recommend a tube that they themselves are not selling. for what it is worth, I do hope you thoroughly enjoy the Elrog while it lasts on your amp.


It's not about recommending a tube, It's about what happens during start up.
This affects all tubes used.

There are quite a few reports about rectifiers dying after only a year. 
It's just that it's very obvious with the bright Elrog glow


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## pippen99

> No reply from Woo yet but did not really expect one this quick.  I have had 3 tube failures in 3 years with the WA33.  The 2 Tak 274B rectifiers and a EML 300B 2.5v.  I would attribute the EML failure to the general shoddiness of EML tubes but I am not capable of impartiality due to conflict with EML on warranty policy.  My concern is that no other rectifier I have used has exhibited this behavior and I have tried more rectifiers than any other tube.


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## ColSaulTigh

> No reply from Woo yet but did not really expect one this quick. I have had 3 tube failures in 3 years with the WA33. The 2 Tak 274B rectifiers and a EML 300B 2.5v. I would attribute the EML failure to the general shoddiness of EML tubes but I am not capable of impartiality due to conflict with EML on warranty policy. My concern is that no other rectifier I have used has exhibited this behavior and I have tried more rectifiers than any other tube.


I think Elrog has fixed their QC issues now that Thomas Meyer has taken over and re-engineered the tubes and put new QC processes in place.  I think in all the discussions I've seen about new-generation Elrogs, I've seen exactly two issues of bad tubes (mine being one of them).  There are plenty of folks in the 300B, Felikz Envy, and Cayain threads who have no issues with theirs.  FWIW.


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## kwilkins

I've been stalking the WA33 Elite for a while and have decided to get one.  If anyone is interested in selling theirs please PM me.  I'll pay with wire transfer or PayPal F&F if you prefer. Thanks.

Ken


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## pippen99

I have now passed 50 hours on the Elrog ER5U4G.  It has begun to open up nicely.  At first somewhat opaque like 6 year old headlight covers.  You knew there should be more light but the music could not quite shine through.  That veil has lifted for the most though it takes time even now.  My SOP is to let the amp warm up at least 15 minutes before starting to listen.  The Elrog (at least at 50 hrs) takes another 15-20 minutes to get to full SQ quality.  My hope is that more hours will reduce this performance interval.  Another plus is that the amp seems quieter.  As we all know some WA33s are hummers mine included.  With the Elrog the hum is more muted.  Right now I would rate the Elrog on the same level or even slightly ahead of the KR 274B.  At this point it does not possess the clarity or precision of the Tak 274B.  My hope is that with more use it will rival the Tak in all aspects.

Now the bad news.  No one wants me to use this tube.  The following are the statements from Thomas Mayer of Elrog and Mike Liang of Woo Audio










So Woo Audio thinks tubes that flash (per my video that I have posted) do not meet Woo Audio standards.  Even though the WA33 is designed for a 5U4G Mr Mayer does not recommend the use of the ER5U4G in this case.  So what is a man to do?  Woo says the 274B is compatible with the WA33 yet the Taks keeping burning out.  Mr Mayer says 274B should not be used in an amp designed for 5U4G yet he does not want his 5U4G used in the amp.

At this point it is a little late to ask PartsConneXion to take the Elrog back and I would not ask them.  They are great people.  So I will continue to use the tube.  The following scenarios are what I see Best case to Worst.

1.  Everbody is wrong.  The Elrog continues to improve and the two of us enjoy thousands of hours of musical bliss.
2. Someone wants to trade me a KR 274B or Tak 274B with very low hours(maybe third times is the charm).
3. The Elrog blows at 11 months.  I get PCX to credit the replacement towards a new Tak or I get a new Elrog and sell or trade it. Would probably go back to KR 274B.
4. I give up and go back to my Cavalli Liquid Gold.  Not really the worst since I love my Lau.

Who the hell knows!


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## paradoxper

pippen99 said:


> I have now passed 50 hours on the Elrog ER5U4G.  It has begun to open up nicely.  At first somewhat opaque like 6 year old headlight covers.  You knew there should be more light but the music could not quite shine through.  That veil has lifted for the most though it takes time even now.  My SOP is to let the amp warm up at least 15 minutes before starting to listen.  The Elrog (at least at 50 hrs) takes another 15-20 minutes to get to full SQ quality.  My hope is that more hours will reduce this performance interval.  Another plus is that the amp seems quieter.  As we all know some WA33s are hummers mine included.  With the Elrog the hum is more muted.  Right now I would rate the Elrog on the same level or even slightly ahead of the KR 274B.  At this point it does not possess the clarity or precision of the Tak 274B.  My hope is that with more use it will rival the Tak in all aspects.
> 
> Now the bad news.  No one wants me to use this tube.  The following are the statements from Thomas Mayer of Elrog and Mike Liang of Woo Audio
> 
> ...


As the one manufacture explicitly states don't use my product, can you claim a replacement at 11 months. Should you. 

You need to dig deeper. Get Woo to divulge the topology and operations within the amp.

You can see Thomas Mayer gave his best insight and conclusion based upon these principles.

Why would you wish to risk these things considering your history.

I've always advised my friends stay away from Woo products.

Good luck with your choices.


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## Roasty

@pippen99 the elrog is a nice tube man. I still haven't swapped back to the tak yet, because I'm just enjoying the music too much.. and if it blows, then que sera sera. whatever it is, it'll be less painful than going thru an EML warranty claim LOL.


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## pippen99

Seems to be a little bit of CYA all around.  As @Roasty says so what if it blows.  At least it is a softer fall financially than the Tak so I will take my chances.  As @Roasty and Doris say Que sera sera.


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## ColSaulTigh

While I don't have a WA33, my Elrog 5U4G's have worked perfectly since day 1 with both my Woo WA6-SE Gen 2's and my WA5-LE Gen 2.  The only issue I've had is the occasional ringing sound from one of the 5U4G's.  A slight tap seems to quiet it down.  having said that, I have no brightness flare like your video shows.  The WA5-LE takes 20-ish seconds to warm up, then *click* and away we go.  The rectifiers, while impactful, aren't as significant a change as the 300B's are.  Now in the WA6-SE, it's a different story, and the Elrog is a MONSTER in them.  Beats every rectifier I have by far, including the KR, KR/RK, Tak, EML, 596, etc.

$.02, YMMV, etc.


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## mahesvara

I


pippen99 said:


> So Woo Audio thinks tubes that flash (per my video that I have posted) do not meet Woo Audio standards. Even though the WA33 is designed for a 5U4G Mr Mayer does not recommend the use of the ER5U4G in this case. So what is a man to do? Woo says the 274B is compatible with the WA33 yet the Taks keeping burning out. Mr Mayer says 274B should not be used in an amp designed for 5U4G yet he does not want his 5U4G used in the amp.


For my part, I've had the Taks 274B with my WA33 (and then the Elite) since ... at least 2016 and nothing has ever happened to it. What a mystery.


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## pippen99

ColSaulTigh said:


> While I don't have a WA33, my Elrog 5U4G's have worked perfectly since day 1 with both my Woo WA6-SE Gen 2's and my WA5-LE Gen 2.  The only issue I've had is the occasional ringing sound from one of the 5U4G's.  A slight tap seems to quiet it down.  having said that, I have no brightness flare like your video shows.  The WA5-LE takes 20-ish seconds to warm up, then *click* and away we go.  The rectifiers, while impactful, aren't as significant a change as the 300B's are.  Now in the WA6-SE, it's a different story, and the Elrog is a MONSTER in them.  Beats every rectifier I have by far, including the KR, KR/RK, Tak, EML, 596, etc.
> 
> $.02, YMMV, etc.


I was thinking you had one DOA or close to.  Must have been someone else.  On two occasions I have had a noise I would characterize as a sizzling bacon noise.  I turned off the amp and waited a few minutes and turned it back on.  No noise.  

Very disappointed in the Taks.  It does not make me hopeful about the longevity of the Tak 2A3.


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## musicinmymind

mahesvara said:


> I
> 
> For my part, I've had the Taks 274B with my WA33 (and then the Elite) since ... at least 2016 and nothing has ever happened to it. What a mystery.



+1
using tak and kr since 2020, no issue till now. tak gets 80% usage and on weekend I use WA33 with tak as pre to speaker amp, playtime is more than 6hrs straight.


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## ThanatosVI

mahesvara said:


> I
> 
> For my part, I've had the Taks 274B with my WA33 (and then the Elite) since ... at least 2016 and nothing has ever happened to it. What a mystery.


If I had to guess your Wa33 emits no transformer hum whatsoever, is that right?


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## mahesvara

ThanatosVI said:


> If I had to guess your Wa33 emits no transformer hum whatsoever, is that right?


It does hum.


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## joseph69

musicinmymind said:


> using tak and kr since 2020, *no issue till now.*


And what's the issue?


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## musicinmymind

joseph69 said:


> And what's the issue?



None, no issues at all. I just shared that 274B and WA33 is just working fine for me for past 2.5 years


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## joseph69

musicinmymind said:


> None, no issues at all. I just shared that 274B and WA33 is just working fine for me for past 2.5 years


Oh, I understand now.
You meant no issues after 2.5yrs and I took it as you had just came across an issue now.


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