# Schiit Mjolnir 2 Listening Impressions



## mhamel

Well, here we go... new Schiit on the way!
  
 My order hasn't shipped yet, but let's get a thread going for those who have received or will be receiving their M2s soon.  
  
 How do you like it? How does it compare?  Tubes vs LISST? Let's hear everyone's thoughts.
  
 I'll be trying mine out with Yggy and Dangerous Source DACs.  Amps to compare - at the moment I've got a Lyr 1, Elekit TU-8200DX, (the surprisingly good for what it is) internal amp on the Dangerous Source, and my restored Pioneer SA-9100.
  
 Headphones are LCD-X, AKG K712, modded Beyer DT-990 and un-amped Blue Mo-Fi.
  
 Happy Listening!
  
    -Mike


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## JK-47

Hey, nice to see a fellow Elekit TU-8200DX owner with the Mojnir 2 on the way too.
  
 Sunday I orderd the MJ2 with LISST's (lisps'ssss), the Gungnir Mbit, and the Wyrd.
  
 I have vintage 6DJ8 Amperex Bugle boy's (liked them in my Dad's Lyr2), Reflektor 6N23P's, and Jan Philips 6922's on the way. Also Tubemonger socket savers...
  
 Let the tube rolling commence


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## Hardwired

Ordered the Mojo 2 and GMB on Saturday and my order has been stuck on order status "Mjolnir2" for 2 days, and the shipping time on the site has grown to 5-7 days. They must have sold a Schiit load of the amps!
  
 Anyway, will post impressions of all the gear including LISST/tube comparisons once they all arrive.  Can't wait!


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## mhamel

Hey JK,
  
 I love the TU-8200DX, it's a great amp.  I just couldn't resist picking up the MJ2, and the LISSTs are intriguing to say the least. I was tempted to pick up a Gungnir Mbit, but with the Yggy here already it was hard to talk myself into pulling the trigger on that just yet.
  
 I do wish the heater current capacity on the MJ2 was slightly higher, I have around 1200 tubes that work in my Lyr 1 but at least half of them exceed the heater current rating on the MJ2 so won't be compatible.  Still plenty to keep me busy rolling, though. 
  
    -Mike


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## Mediahound

Received mine today:
  
  

  
  
  
 Sounds great so far. Probably still burning in but even so, smooth, not strident, great dynamics. This is just upon an initial listen.


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## LarsP

Looking at this amp besides the new Gungnir as an upgrade from my Meier Concerto/StageDAC-combo. Has anyone here done a similar upgrade?


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## Argo Duck

This would be a very interesting comparison as Meier's gear has high quality for money (innovative thinking; prices kept low) just like Schiit's.

I have the same upgrade plan but in a few months...



larsp said:


> Looking at this amp besides the new Gungnir as an upgrade from my Meier Classic/StageDAC-combo. Has anyone here done a similar upgrade?


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## Mediahound

Question about the gain: Low gain with my Audeze LCD-3's 12 o'clock is already like way loud. Is there any reason to run this amp in high gain if this is the case?


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## Rem0o

mediahound said:


> Question about the gain: Low gain with my Audeze LCD-3's 12 o'clock is already like way loud. Is there any reason to run this amp in high gain if this is the case?


 
 Personally I'd stick with low gain for greater play on the volume pot and technically better noise/THD performance.


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## Mediahound

rem0o said:


> Personally I'd stick with low gain for greater play on the volume pot and technically better noise/THD performance.


 

 Thanks.


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## Mediahound




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## reddog

mediahound said:


> Received mine today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



+1 very nice pictures sir looking for your impressions.


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## JK-47

Mediahound,
  
 Thanks for the pic's and video...looks smokin'
  
 My order from Schiit included the MJ2 and GMB, plus a Wyrd. Schiit emailed me yestersay saying the LISST tubes were sold out until Monday, and it was the only thing holding my order from  being shipped. I asked them to ship without the LISST for now. They did but it will cost an extra $8 to ge tthe LISST shipped mon... oh well.


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## Mediahound

jk-47 said:


> Mediahound,
> 
> Thanks for the pic's and video...looks smokin'
> 
> My order from Schiit included the MJ2 and GMB, plus a Wyrd. Schiit emailed me yestersay saying the LISST tubes were sold out until Monday, and it was the only thing holding my order from  being shipped. I asked them to ship without the LISST for now. They did but it will cost an extra $8 to ge tthe LISST shipped mon... oh well.


 

 I probably would have just waited. But I can certainly understand wanting to get your new stuff ASAP, especially if you already have tubes you can run while you wait for your LISST's.


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## reddog

Sweet looking forward to your impressions.


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## Trastan

I know it's early yet, but I'm considering an amp upgrade for my Fostex TH-900, and I've been wondering if this might be a great option. However, since I'd be running it unbalanced, does anyone have an estimate on whether that would be worthwhile? Wondering if this makes sense for someone who may not use the balanced connection. 
  
 I like the idea of buying a balanced-capable amp now to run with my Bifrost Uber, with the possibility of using it in balanced mode (with appropriate balanced DAC) some time in the future.
  
 What do you all think?
  
 EDIT: I'm currently using an Asgard 2! Also interested in the same question for those with a Ragnarok.


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## Argo Duck

^ to future-proof sounds like a solid plan but I would wait for real listening impressions rather than estimates.

It does seem from Jason's just-posted chapter in the Schiit happened thread that a lot of thought and (Ragnarok-based) tech went into the summer that produces the SE output. But that's just an estimate!

Wait for impressions. I doubt you'll have to wait long.


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## JK-47

mediahound said:


> I probably would have just waited. But I can certainly understand wanting to get your new stuff ASAP, especially if you already have tubes you can run while you wait for your LISST's.


 

 What's another $8 on a $2300 order...lol
  
 Got notification it shipped today, minus the LISST.


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## CrocCap

i listened to the m2(tube) at the schiit show with my th900's(se), and it is a solid pairing.  Its low gain is good for sensitive phones like the th900, and high gain was powering my he-6(balanced) very well. It has se or balanced inputs, isnt too expensive, and can be either tube or solid state.  I prefer the tube sound in general.
 if i were in the market for a high end hp amp, this would be it.


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## mhamel

jk-47 said:


> What's another $8 on a $2300 order...lol
> 
> Got notification it shipped today, minus the LISST.


 
  
  
 Same here, I had them ship mine without the LISST tubes and it shipped today.


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## Mediahound

So what are the best tubes for this? I'm mainly interested in smooth mids and good bass.


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## reddog

mediahound said:


> So what are the best tubes for this? I'm mainly interested in smooth mids and good bass.



I would go for gold lions, they have good bass and smooth, lush like mids. The gold lions are current production tubes and you might want to get NOS tubes which sound very nice but can cost more.


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## Argo Duck

Good recommendation from reddog but as well...IME same tubes sound different with different amps. And individual hearing. You just gotta try them and find what 'works'. Tube-rolling can take time, money and sometimes is a pain. Or enjoyable if you like the search 

Biggest plus with tubes is the ability to "tune" your amp. I found Lyr (v1) very responsive to rolling and I suspect Mjolnir 2 might be too.


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## JK-47

mediahound said:


> So what are the best tubes for this? I'm mainly interested in smooth mids and good bass.




In my dads Lyr2 he really likes made in Holland Amperex 6DJ8's. I've listened to them and think they are really nice for the price, and picked up a vintage pair myself. His were $50 and mine were $45 for the pair.

 He has Gold Lions as well, but they collect dust, and I agree the vintage amperex are considerably better. Smoother, more detailed, larger soundstage, and more fluid. Nicer in every regard.

Just beware of microphonic tubes, I have a tube tester and had to send back 2 pairs of the Amperex before I got a decent set for my dad.


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## leafs

Mjolnir 2 being a hybrid tube, I wonder how does it sound comparing to a pure tube amp. I have no listening experience from tube amp, so if any folks would like to share any brief comment, that would be very helpful. And I appreciate it. Mjolnir 2 is an interesting product and I am looking at it with great interest too.


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## Mediahound

jk-47 said:


> In my dads Lyr2 he really likes made in Holland Amperex 6DJ8's. I've listened to them and think they are really nice for the price, and picked up a vintage pair myself. His were $50 and mine were $45 for the pair.
> 
> He has Gold Lions as well, but they collect dust, and I agree the vintage amperex are considerably better. Smoother, more detailed, larger soundstage, and more fluid. Nicer in every regard.
> 
> Just beware of microphonic tubes, I have a tube tester and had to send back 2 pairs of the Amperex before I got a decent set for my dad.




Thanks. Yeah, I had orange globes in my lyr a few years back before I sold it and liked them a lot. . I just ordered another pair for my Mjlonir2.


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## JK-47

leafs said:


> Mjolnir 2 being a hybrid tube, I wonder how does it sound comparing to a pure tube amp. I have no listening experience from tube amp, so if any folks would like to share any brief comment, that would be very helpful. And I appreciate it. Mjolnir 2 is an interesting product and I am looking at it with great interest too.




I have an Elekit TU-8200DX all tube amp, and will have the MJ2 middle of next week. So a comparison will follow a few days later.

Compared to my dad's Lyr2, the Elekit is more lush in the mids and bottom end, overall a more laid-back sound. The Lyr2 is quick and precise, with more detail, but lags when it comes to soundstage.


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## leafs

jk-47 said:


> I have an Elekit TU-8200DX all tube amp, and will have the MJ2 middle of next week. So a comparison will follow a few days later.
> 
> Compared to my dad's Lyr2, the Elekit is more lush in the mids and bottom end, overall a more laid-back sound. The Lyr2 is quick and precise, with more detail, but lags when it comes to soundstage.


 

 Thanks for the insight on Lyr2 comparison. I look forward to your impression. Congrats on getting MJ2.


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## JK-47

Just got notification that my LISST's shipped USPS priority 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Funny thing is that they will arrive before the rest of the order that shipped yesterday Fed Ex...lol


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## mhamel

My MJ2 arrived yesterday. I just finished setting it up  (it's replacing an Emotiva XSP-1 as a preamp in addition to headphone use).
  
 I don't have the best tubes in it at the moment, figured I'd let it burn in for a while with something I wouldn't miss too much if something went wrong and they blew up... but even with the tubes I'm using, it sounds great.  I'll reserve judgement until it's had some time to burn in and I swap in better tubes. My Yggy also got powered off for the first time since I bought it (tail end of the 1st batch) and was off for an hour or so, so that needs to warm up as well.
  
 LISST will be here next week.
  
    -Mike


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## jjacq

How does the Mjolnir 2 compare to the Ragnarok? I'm just genuinely curious!


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## LogicalDisconnect

mhamel said:


> My MJ2 arrived yesterday. I just finished setting it up  (it's replacing an Emotiva XSP-1 as a preamp in addition to headphone use).
> 
> I don't have the best tubes in it at the moment, figured I'd let it burn in for a while with something I wouldn't miss too much if something went wrong and they blew up... but even with the tubes I'm using, it sounds great.  I'll reserve judgement until it's had some time to burn in and I swap in better tubes. My Yggy also got powered off for the first time since I bought it (tail end of the 1st batch) and was off for an hour or so, so that needs to warm up as well.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Mike, on a slightly different note, I'd love to read a comparison between the Dangerous Source and the Yggy too, and between the headphone amp in the Source Mjolnir 2. I have a Source but I'm contemplating an upgrade so it would be great to read your thoughts.


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## Alphaman0606

jjacq said:


> How does the Mjolnir 2 compare to the Ragnarok? I'm just genuinely curious!


 
 Would like to know too...  Hoping someone with both will reply soon.


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## reddog

alphaman0606 said:


> Would like to know too...  Hoping someone with both will reply soon.



+1 I hope somebody with both posts some impressions soon.


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## Exacoustatowner

jk-47 said:


> Just got notification that my LISST's shipped USPS priority
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Good! I ordered mine last Sunday and got a message they were on back order. I am curious to hear them.


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## Trastan

Encouraged by previous reviews of the Mjolnir and Schiit's return policy, I've ordered a Mjolnir 2 with both the normal tubes and a set of LISST. Can't wait to see how well it works out paired with a Bifrost (Uber, USB2) and unmodded Fostex TH-900s (unbalanced in both inputs and outputs).  This looks like a great amp to set me up for future expansion.

Here's hoping all goes well. I expect that I'll be using the tubes more, but we'll see. I'll let you all know how it goes.


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## Mediahound

Question, does the Mjolnir 2 run the tubes on the input stage or output stage?


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## Skooks

The tubes are on the input... they are not power tubes.
  
 Question... has anyone heard the Mjolnir 2 driving HE-6's?
  
 I am really enjoying the Hifiman EF-6 amp with balanced in and out driving my mod HE-6's. But, I wouldn't mind getting back to playing with tubes. I've been a tube man since beginning with hifi. So, if anyone has heard the combo, please let me know. Thanks.


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## Mediahound

skooks said:


> The tubes are on the input... they are not power tubes.


 
  
 Thanks.


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## Mediahound

I'm really enjoying the Mjolnir 2 a lot so far.
  
 I've been listening for the past almost week with the LISST's installed. It sounds really nice; dynamic and detailed without being overly bright. Neutral, which is what Schiit was going for with them. They succeeded. It will be interesting in the future if they come out with ones that perhaps are tuned differently to perhaps mimic tubes or provide a darker signature. 
  
 The amp seems to have plenty of power to drive my LCD-3's well, which I run balanced-sounds amazing. My powered speakers only have RCA ins so I've been using the Mjolnir 2 single ended preamp out. It sounds very good, but I'm certain would be better if using the balanced outs.
  
 I generally prefer tubes however and the Mjolinir 2 sounds sublime that way (with some 1969 Holland Amperex Orange Globes). Directly comparing the tubes with the LISST's, with the tubes (as you would expect), mids and lower mids are more pronounced, with an overall smoother signature and slightly less dynamics. I find I can listen longer with tubes than with solid state, probably because the highs are a bit more nuanced rather than in your face. The power of the Mjonir 2 running balanced, combined with the tubes really make for a smooth and engaging experience. 
  
 In the end, the LISST's seem sorta like a beer whereas the tubes are like a glass of wine. If you drink, you probably feel that both are nice at times, but you will typically have a preference.


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## reddog

mediahound said:


> I'm really enjoying the Mjolnir 2 a lot so far.
> 
> I've been listening for the past almost week with the LISST's installed. It sounds really nice; dynamic and detailed without being overly bright. Neutral, which is what Schiit was going for with them. They succeeded. It will be interesting in the future if they come out with ones that perhaps are tuned differently to perhaps mimic tubes or provide a darker signature.
> 
> ...



+1. Thanks for your impressions, it is deeply appreciated. I am very tempted to get the Mjolnir 2, sooner than later.


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## CrocCap

skooks said:


> The tubes are on the input... they are not power tubes.
> 
> Question... has anyone heard the Mjolnir 2 driving HE-6's?
> 
> I am really enjoying the Hifiman EF-6 amp with balanced in and out driving my mod HE-6's. But, I wouldn't mind getting back to playing with tubes. I've been a tube man since beginning with hifi. So, if anyone has heard the combo, please let me know. Thanks.


 
 I brought my he-6 to the schiit show. Using the balanced output on high gain, there was plenty of volume pot left.  And, i actually preferred the gungnir multibit/mjolnir 2 stack over the yggy/rag combo, mainly because of the tube sound of the m2. 
 mjolnir 2 get my recommendation for he6 owners.


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## Alphaman0606

croccap said:


> I brought my he-6 to the schiit show. Using the balanced output on high gain, there was plenty of volume pot left.  And, i actually preferred the gungnir multibit/mjolnir 2 stack over the yggy/rag combo, mainly because of the tube sound of the m2.
> mjolnir 2 get my recommendation for he6 owners.




Wow, this is awesome to hear about HE-6 on this amp. Sorta surprised it came out better than Yggy/ Rag combo...


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## Skooks

croccap said:


> I brought my he-6 to the schiit show. Using the balanced output on high gain, there was plenty of volume pot left.  And, i actually preferred the gungnir multibit/mjolnir 2 stack over the yggy/rag combo, mainly because of the tube sound of the m2.
> mjolnir 2 get my recommendation for he6 owners.


 
 Thanks for your post, CrocCap. Both the Mjolnir 2 and the HiFiMan EF6 are rated at 5w output into 50ohms. But, I wanted to hear from someone like you who had actually heard the M2 drive the HE-6's before I made the big leap. Good to get your opinion after actually hearing the combo.
  
 I sure like the EF6, but I've missed being able to roll tubes to gain that exact flavor. And, even in a hybrid amp like the M2 or the Lyr2, where the tubes are driver tubes on the input, they still make a difference.


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## hifimiami

Hi, can you please provide impressions and comparison to original Mjolnir?  Is it worth the upgrade?


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## money4me247

anyone made the move from a lyr 2 to the new mjolnir2? interested in some direct comparative experiences! thxs


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## reddog

money4me247 said:


> anyone made the move from a lyr 2 to the new mjolnir2? interested in some direct comparative experiences! thxs



+1 Great question.


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## Hardwired

money4me247 said:


> anyone made the move from a lyr 2 to the new mjolnir2? interested in some direct comparative experiences! thxs


 
  
 Well, I didn't move from one to the other, I added the MJ2 to my home desk and took the Lyr 2 to work. Couldn't be happier.
  
 I got the MJ2 for several reasons. It's the only balanced/SE and solid state/tube amp. It's The One to Rule Them All. I knew I wanted the tube sound but sometimes I don't need music to be the best it can be, and I can swap in the LISST while I do stuff with music in the background and save my tube life for dedicated listening (which you can also do with the Lyr using the LISST). I can use either balanced or SE cans, so I can acquire balanced cables over time and use SE as well which lets me use any friggin' can I care to own. And I can use the tubes I already have for the Lyr in the MJ2. Win-win-win-win.
  
 And I bought it because it matches the GMB which was the main purchase. Gotta have those matching sets. Which makes comparing the MJ2 and Lyr 2 problematic for me because I would be comparing DAC and amp sets and how do you tell where an improvement comes from?
  
 And the Lyr 2 and Bifrost are at work while the MJ2 is at home and my headphone cables aren't that long. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So I'll be completely useless to answer your question about how the Lyr 2 and MJ2 differ, but I got a reasonably-priced multibit DAC and a Swiss army knife amp that can do it all and they sound darn good. There are some impressions of the set in the Denver meet impressions thread where I took it this last weekend, but again that's for the set. Sorry not to be more helpful, but I'm married so I'm used to that.


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## money4me247

hardwired said:


> Well, I didn't move from one to the other, I added the MJ2 to my home desk and took the Lyr 2 to work. Couldn't be happier.
> 
> I got the MJ2 for several reasons. It's the only balanced/SE and solid state/tube amp. It's The One to Rule Them All. I knew I wanted the tube sound but sometimes I don't need music to be the best it can be, and I can swap in the LISST while I do stuff with music in the background and save my tube life for dedicated listening (which you can also do with the Lyr using the LISST). I can use either balanced or SE cans, so I can acquire balanced cables over time and use SE as well which lets me use any friggin' can I care to own. And I can use the tubes I already have for the Lyr in the MJ2. Win-win-win-win.
> 
> ...


 
 hahaha thanks for the response.
  
 since we have similar headphone experience, I would love to hear any impressions you can gather about the sonic differences between the two (if you wanted to try). appreciate it!!


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## rb2013

Wow! Super excited - been a big Lyr fan for a long time.  After going through 7 or 8 heap amps settled on the Woo WA6-SE - tube rolled it to NOS heaven and thought I had found what I was looking for - until I heard the Lyr with decent tubes.  Anyway long story short, sold the Woo, and I've been using the Lyr for years with my HD800/Moon Black Dragon V2 set-up.
  
 After years of tube rolling (over 50 different types from Amperex to Voskhod) - I found these awesome Russian 6n23p tubes (direct replacement for the 6922 and Lyr2 compatible). See my 17 tube 6922 shootout.  My HG's just hit the spot for me and my system (very refined source - tube DACs and lot's of effort on DDCs).
  
 Had been thinking of getting a Lyr2 for a while,  but had heard how well the HD800 do with balanced.  Tough to find a reasonably priced balanced tube HP amp.  This is the ticket!  Will order one as soon as funds allow.
  
 Cheers!
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes


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## rb2013

mediahound said:


> Question, does the Mjolnir 2 run the tubes on the input stage or output stage?


 
 Like the Lyr/Lyr2 design the tube pre-amp section is a true tube setup (not a tube buffered opamp), the output devices are solid state MOSFETs run in class 'A".  Class A biased MOSFETs are known for their smooth almost tube like quality.  Rich, natural tone - that's what I love.
  
 Now I assume (hope 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) the MJ2 responses as well to tube changes as the Lyr/Lyr2 does.  It's what has made the whole Lyr thing so much fun - when I first got it I was amazed at how much difference there was in SQ with different tubes.

 This is looking to be one killer amp/pre-amp. 
  
 PS Edit:  Well checking a little close it looks like the MOSFETs are run in push-pull configuration


> *Crossfet™? Are the FETs angry?*
> No. They’re thrilled. N-channel MOSFETs and P-channel MOSFETs usually don’t match too well (and that’s putting it mildly.) Crossfet allows us to use only N-Channel MOSFETs, for better matching, and for an elegantly simple output stage with great performance.
> 
> *Topology: *Tube voltage gain or solid-state tube voltage gain, cross-shunt push-pull Crossfet output stage, noninverting, single voltage gain stage
> *Power Supply: *specific Circlotron 4-secondary output stage transformer with over 65,000uF filter capacitance, plus dedicated transformer for high-voltage discrete-regulated front end stage with 200V rails and over 4,000uf of filter capacitance


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## Mediahound

rb2013 said:


> Like the Lyr/Lyr2 design the tube pre-amp section is a true tube setup (not a tube buffered opamp), the output devices are solid state MOSFETs run in class 'A".  Class A biased MOSFETs are known for their smooth almost tube like quality.  Rich, natural tone - that's what I love.
> 
> Now I assume (hope
> 
> ...


 

 I'm enjoying it a lot so far. It's so engaging yet sublime. I'm running Amperex Orange Globes currently and looking forward to trying others.


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## rb2013

mediahound said:


> I'm enjoying it a lot so far. It's so engaging yet sublime. I'm running Amperex Orange Globes currently and looking forward to trying others.


 

 Nice - luck dog!  I'm going to order mine with the LISST as they're only $60 extra and I have a boat load of tubes to try (HGs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










).  From wht I've read on the Lyr tube rolling thread the LISST are OK - but not nearly in the same league as the best tubes - but it would be fun to try them!
  
 I can at least say I owned some "depletion-mode MOSFETs in a tube-sized can"!


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## Shembot

hifimiami said:


> Hi, can you please provide impressions and comparison to original Mjolnir?  Is it worth the upgrade?


 
 ​
 I definitely find it to be worth the upgrade. To my ear, it's a substantial performance increase in the direction of being more resolving and having less glare. It's more refined, you might say. Plus, you have the ability to customize the sound with tubes.


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## rb2013

Just comparing specs on the Lyr2 to the MJ2 - it looks like the MJ2 is much quieter and has lower distortion:
  MJ2 Specs:
 Quote:


> *Frequency Response:* 20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db, 2Hz-400KHz, -3dB
> *Maximum Power, 32 ohms: *8.0W RMS per channel
> *Maximum Power, 50 ohms: *5.0W RMS per channel
> *Maximum Power, 300 ohms: *850mW RMS per channel
> ...


 
 Lyr2 Specs:


> *Frequency Response:* 20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db, 2Hz-500KHz, -3dB
> *Maximum Power, 32 ohms:* 6.0W RMS per channel
> *Maximum Power, 50 ohms: *4.0W RMS per channel
> *Maximum Power, 300 ohms:* 660mW RMS per channel
> ...


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## mhamel

logicaldisconnect said:


> Mike, on a slightly different note, I'd love to read a comparison between the Dangerous Source and the Yggy too, and between the headphone amp in the Source Mjolnir 2. I have a Source but I'm contemplating an upgrade so it would be great to read your thoughts.


 
  
  
 I don't have the Source hooked up at the moment, but general impressions when I switched to the Yggy:  Yggy sounded slightly thin on the low end compared to the Source, but the imaging and detail retrieval are noticeably better through the Yggy. I've had more than a few Keanu Reeves-esque moments of "Whoa" from the sense of space and realism that I hear through the Yggy, and not just with music. The computer I use as a primary source is also a gaming rig, and even spatial details in game sounds are noticeably better through the Yggy. I do find that I prefer the Yggy with a touch of EQ in the lows, but that it was well worth the upgrade from the Source. I would like to get my hands on a Dangerous Convert-2 at some point to compare, which might be a more even fight.
  
 As for the amp in the Source - it is surprisingly good for a built-in amp. It is very clean and neutral to my ears - which is what it is designed to be. It's got plenty of power to drive any of the cans I use to levels far beyond where I would listen. Where it falls short for me personally is that it's a bit too neutral for my taste. It's not lacking anywhere but it doesn't have that extra warmth that tubes can bring. In general, I  prefer tubes, and tend to like a tube pre with solid state amplification.  
  
 I'm actually using the MJ2 as a preamp as much if not more than I am as a headphone amp. I've got a balanced setup here as there are a lot of other electronics in the room and I wanted the extra noise rejection that it brings. If the MJ2 had been around a couple of years ago, it would have saved me a bunch of money. I was looking for a balanced tube preamp at the time, and bought a used BAT VK-5i, which I love. The issue is that it uses 8 x 6922 + 2 x 5881 and it's a lot of wear and tear on the tubes for all-day-every-day use, not to mention it could double as a space heater. I picked up an Emotiva XSP-1 to use for daily listening, and that's also a great sounding pre, but I did miss having tubes in the signal chain, and was a bit overkill considering it was never used for more than one source. Enter the MJ2. I don't know if I'd ever get rid of the BAT, but I will most likely move it to another system. The XSP-1 is now on a shelf and will probably be sold. To my ears, the Yggy + MJ2 are an excellent combo that complement each other very well. I've still got a lot of tube rolling, comparison with LISST, and listening ahead of me to enjoy but so far I am very happy with it.
  
     -Mike


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## Mediahound

rb2013 said:


> Just comparing specs on the Lyr2 to the MJ2 - it looks like the MJ2 is much quieter and has lower distortion:
> Lyr2 Specs:


 

 Not to mention more power. More power with lower distortion is no small feat.


----------



## Mediahound

I'm actually sending back my LISST's. Not that I didn't like them, I just prefer tubes over SS if given the choice. That said, it's great to have the choice in the first place. The LISST's are an amazing invention!


----------



## reddog

mediahound said:


> I'm actually sending back my LISST's. Not that I didn't like them, I just prefer tubes over SS if given the choice. That said, it's great to have the choice in the first place. The LISST's are an amazing invention!



+1 I agree if I get the Mjolnir 2 it will be to enjoy the tubular goodness in balanced mode. I already have enough solid state goodness.


----------



## rb2013

mediahound said:


> Not to mention more power. More power with lower distortion is no small feat.


 

 Yes - more power!  We love power!  I can't think of any HP besides the Stax these can't drive.  Maybe even enough for the AKG1000's?


----------



## JK-47

Gumby and MJ2 are in the building and fired up !!! Gumby is warming up while I A/B the MJ2 with my Elekit TU-8200DX fed by the TEAC-UD301 DAC (line out to Elekit, and balanced to MJ2). The MJ2 with the LISST's in SE mode gets smoked by the Elekit sound wise. The power is neck and neck in SE mode, with the MJ2 in high gain. Balaced the MJ2 takes it power wise for sure, but not by as much as I was expecting...
  
 More updates to follow...


----------



## reddog

jk-47 said:


> Gumby and MJ2 are in the building and fired up !!! Gumby is warming up while I A/B the MJ2 with my Elekit TU-8200DX fed by the TEAC-UD301 DAC (line out to Elekit, and balanced to MJ2). The MJ2 with the LISST's in SE mode gets smoked by the Elekit sound wise. The power is neck and neck in SE mode, with the MJ2 in high gain. Balaced the MJ2 takes it power wise for sure, but not by as much as I was expecting...
> 
> More updates to follow...



Thanks for you your impressions, they are very much appreciated.


----------



## Trastan

jk-47 said:


> ...The MJ2 with the LISST's in SE mode gets smoked by the Elekit sound wise...


 
  Oi! That doesn't sound good. Looking forward to more clarification on that.


----------



## rb2013

jk-47 said:


> Gumby and MJ2 are in the building and fired up !!! Gumby is warming up while I A/B the MJ2 with my Elekit TU-8200DX fed by the TEAC-UD301 DAC (line out to Elekit, and balanced to MJ2). The MJ2 with the LISST's in SE mode gets smoked by the Elekit sound wise. The power is neck and neck in SE mode, with the MJ2 in high gain. Balaced the MJ2 takes it power wise for sure, but not by as much as I was expecting...
> 
> More updates to follow...


 

 I'm sure the MJ2 will need at least 100 hrs run time to burnin, maybe more like 150hrs to reach optimum - how much time on it?


----------



## LogicalDisconnect

mhamel said:


> Source impressions




Thanks very much for your detailed response, Mike. Interesting to read about the Source's low end. That was the part I thought (without the benefit of a comparison) may have been lacking with my HD800. Maybe it's more the amp, or the HD800 itself. Maybe I'll hold on to the Source until I have the opportunity to compare it with something else.


----------



## JK-47

rb2013 said:


> I'm sure the MJ2 will need at least 100 hrs run time to burnin, maybe more like 150hrs to reach optimum - how much time on it?


 

 True, only 2hrs so far... I admit I jumped the gun a little. Still surprised the two are neck and neck power wise single ended. The Amperex 6DJ8's are going into the MJ2 soon. Just switched to the Gumby, feeding the MJ2 balanced and the Elekit by way of RCA's. Initial impressions are that the treble has more texture, it's just sounds like there are more layers to the high end.


----------



## rb2013

jk-47 said:


> True, only 2hrs so far... I admit I jumped the gun a little. Still surprised the two are neck and neck power wise single ended. The Amperex 6DJ8's are going into the MJ2 soon. Just switched to the Gumby, feeding the MJ2 balanced and the Elekit by way of RCA's. Initial impressions are that the treble has more texture, it's just sounds like there are more layers to the high end.


 

 Yeah -  it should open up with some playing time.  If it's like the Lyr - the detail will improve, same for the dynamics.
  
 So far from what I've read the LISST's aren't rocking the boat.  With a decent pr of tubes the SQ should take a nice step forward.


----------



## rb2013

logicaldisconnect said:


> Thanks very much for your detailed response, Mike. Interesting to read about the Source's low end. That was the part I thought (without the benefit of a comparison) may have been lacking with my HD800. Maybe it's more the amp, or the HD800 itself. Maybe I'll hold on to the Source until I have the opportunity to compare it with something else.


 

 You might want to try a better cable on the HD800s.  I've had two so far and they both 'cured' the HD800's sibilance and touch of thinness on the bottom.  The Moon Black Dragon V2 being the best so far - and without it - I would have sold the 800's.


----------



## JK-47

rb2013 said:


> Yeah -  it should open up with some playing time.  If it's like the Lyr - the detail will improve, same for the dynamics.
> 
> So far from what I've read the LISST's aren't rocking the boat.  With a decent pr of tubes the SQ should take a nice step forward.


 
  
 Put the Amperex 6DJ8's in and they smoothed things out, and added some warmth. After constant A/B with same tracks between amps, and balanced/SE output with Senn HD650's and Audeze LCD 2.2F's, I still prefer the Elekit single ended so far, but balanced it's very very close, and depends on the headphone. My Elekit can't drive the Alpha Dogs the same way as the balanced MJ2 can, the MJ2 does that can justice quite nicely 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Update: I would say I prefer the Senn's with the Elekit and the LCD2.2F's (balanced) with the MJ2. I have balanced and SE cables for both, and have tried both through the MJ2.


----------



## Trastan

Does anyone know what the unbalanced output power is? I assume that the specs I see on schiit.com are for the balanced out. I can't seem to find this info anywhere.


----------



## Mediahound

trastan said:


> Does anyone know what the unbalanced output power is? I assume that the specs I see on schiit.com are for the balanced out. I can't seem to find this info anywhere.




The faq section says single ended power is limited to 2 watts for a 32 ohm headphone. So higher ohm headphones would be less.


----------



## Trastan

mediahound said:


> The faq section says single ended power is limited to 2 watts for a 32 ohm headphone. So higher ohm headphones would be less.


 
 Ha - I missed that. Thanks a lot. More than plenty for the Fostex TH-900.


----------



## zive

Has anyone had a chance to try the MJ2 with Gold Lion 6922's? I am committed to upgrading my Asgard 2 to something that can do my Gungnir justice and have virtually no tube experience. I'm hesitant to spend a lot on a first pair of tubes considering I don't know if I will prefer the sound of the LISST's to tubes but I'd like to give some proper tubes a try. Thanks!


----------



## rb2013

zive said:


> Has anyone had a chance to try the MJ2 with Gold Lion 6922's? I am committed to upgrading my Asgard 2 to something that can do my Gungnir justice and have virtually no tube experience. I'm hesitant to spend a lot on a first pair of tubes considering I don't know if I will prefer the sound of the LISST's to tubes but I'd like to give some proper tubes a try. Thanks!


 
 I've had good luck with the vintage 70's Russian 6n23p - completely compatible withe the MJ2.  Many have loved the detailed and dynamic sound of these in the Lyr and Lyr2. 
  
 This was the original review I wrote back in 2013 on the 6n23p Voskhod Rockets
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8595
  
 The issue is buying them from the overseas (usually Ukraine) Ebay dealers - I have to buy groups and sift through them for the best ones.  That leaves some of the very nice - but not best ones as spares.  The '79 Voskhod Rockets can be had for as little $30 a pr.  The '74's for $50. You can buy from the overseas Ebay folks - sometimes a ridiculus prices - but finding date and output matched pairs can be a challenge.
 Send me a PM I can let you know what I have as spares.


----------



## reddog

rb2013 said:


> I've had good luck with the vintage 70's Russian 6n23p - completely compatible withe the MJ2.  Many have loved the detailed and dynamic sound of these in the Lyr and Lyr2.
> 
> This was the original review I wrote back in 2013 on the 6n23p Voskhod Rockets
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8595
> ...



+1 nos tubes rock and one should almost always choose nos tubes over gold lions. I have read vokhods are simply fantastic.


----------



## Mediahound

What would you all recommend for tubes that are smooth with laid back highs and great bass?


----------



## Oklahoma

mediahound said:


> What would you all recommend for tubes that are smooth with laid back highs and great bass?




I am using a pair of Tesla e88cc that sound fairly laid back with decent bass but was recommended a set of vintage herleens.


----------



## reddog

mediahound said:


> What would you all recommend for tubes that are smooth with laid back highs and great bass?



Look up rb2013 and see if he has some awesome vokshods NOS tubes. If not check out upscale audio, for any nos tubes.. I would pursue all your NOS options before getting current production tubes, like the gold lion or Telefunken TK's. If I get the Mjolnir 2 I will try to find some Ediswan cv2492, or at least some nice cv2492. Now is the time to look for NOS tubes, not 4 years from now.


----------



## rb2013

oklahoma said:


> I am using a pair of Tesla e88cc that sound fairly laid back with decent bass but was recommended a set of vintage herleens.


 

 The real Teslas are very nice, so are the Philips Mini Watts (Herleen) and Valvos - had them.  Also highly recommended the Telefunken E88CCs (the real ones from the 60's not the new production - which aren't bad but you can do better for the money).  The Amperex 7308 USA white prints (USN-CEP), also made as a 6922 - very nice!
  
 At the very top of the heap are the Siemens CCa early 60s with the gray shields (neutral with lots of detail and holographic sound stage), Amperex 6922 pinched waists (warmer,  with euphonics to die for), the Valvo CCa (again great holographic presentation), the Tele E188CC's OMG!
  
 But for me and my system the king of the hill is the very rare HG (I call my 'Holy Grail') '75 Reflektor Silver Shield Single Wire Getter Post 6n23p.  This tube does it all!  Holographic, 3#D sound stage - not like staggered 2D cardboard cutouts - the musicians present as 3D point sources in the sound field.  Radiating out with subtle reflections from the back and side walls - these very low level signals are usually buried in the mix.  Not with these tubes - the most detailed I have heard yet - they uncover those subtle ambient clues that the ear/mind uses to recreate the lifelike sound field.
  
 One of the reasons I'm so jazzed about the true differential balanced MJ2 - from what I understand this balanced configuration does the 3D hologram thing even better then SE.  And with my Lyr and the HGs on the HD800/Moon Black Dragon V2's thats already pretty incredible!
  
 Oh this is going to be fun!
 Cheers





  
 PS One word of caution tube rolling can be Highly Addictive!


----------



## rb2013

reddog said:


> Look up rb2013 and see if he has some awesome vokshods NOS tubes. If not check out upscale audio, for any nos tubes.. I would pursue all your NOS options before getting current production tubes, like the gold lion or Telefunken TK's. If I get the Mjolnir 2 I will try to find some Ediswan cv2492, or at least some nice cv2492. Now is the time to look for NOS tubes, not 4 years from now.


 

 Hey Reddog!  What's up Bro'!  Did you get those HE1000's?
  
 PS Yeah - they're not making any more 60's and 70's tubes


----------



## reddog

rb2013 said:


> Hey Reddog!  What's up Bro'!  Did you get those HE1000's?
> 
> PS Yeah - they're not making any more 60's and 70's tubes



Yes I got the HE1K's and they are a fantastic headphone. I wish the strap on the production set was a tad longer and the HE1K would be perfect.


----------



## rb2013

Here are some sources to checkout - but first ask yourself - do you want the blue pill or the red pill? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 OK down the rabbit hole you go!:
  
 An older shootout of top 6922 (and equiv tubes)
 http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/6dj8.html
  
 Compatiblity chart (look for Lyr 2 compatible)
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list
  
 My original 2013 review of the Voshod Rocket 6n23p's
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list
  
 My subsequent review:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes
  
 Tube World's Rank of their best:


> ```
> [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)][b]The Best Sounding CCa=6922 ever made[/b][/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)]TOP 5:[/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)]-----[/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)]1) CCa Siemens & Halske 1950's "U" getter halo and 1960's "O" getter halo[/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)] "Rarest and most sought after CCa, has "gray shield" between plates, [/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)] Most realistic sounding holographic soundstage, pure seductive sonic joy,[/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)] complex symphonic images emerge effortlessly"[/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)]2) CCa Telefunken West Germany 1960's [/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)] "excellent neutral holographic soundstage, vast vocabulary of tone[/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)] establishes remarkable layers of harmonics, very rare"[/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)]3) CCa Siemens & Halske A-FRAME construction late 1960's - early 1970's[/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)] "beautiful open air holographic images, low microphonic tube construction, rare"[/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)]4) CCa LORENZ West Germany early 1960's[/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)] "beautiful open air holographic images, very rare"[/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)]5) CCa VALVO Heerlen Holland 1960's[/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)] "real sonic holography, extremely rare"[/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)]6) CCa Siemens Rohre A-Frame early 1973-1974 (in stock, silver shield)[/color] [/color]
> ```


 


> ```
> [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)][b]The Best Sounding 6922=E88CC Gold Pins ever made[/b][/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)](SEE THE 6922 POLL RESULTS FOR CUSTOMER FEEDBACK REGARDING 6922's)[/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)]6922 Amperex Holland "Pinched Waist" 1958, many branded Valvo[/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)]6922 or CCa Siemens Halske 1950's - 1960's (airy highs, great detail, solid bass)[/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)]6922 or CCa Telefunken 1950's - 1960's[/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)]6922 Amperex "PQ" Holland Gold Pins white printing 1960-1966 (older the better)[/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)]6922 Amperex Holland branded Amperex or [color=rgb(34, 34, 156)][url=http://www.amazon.com/s?url=search-alias%3delectronics&field-keywords=philips%20fidelio]Philips[/url][/color] Miniwatt or Mullard Holland [/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)] or Philips Holland "SQ" 1960's[/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)]6922 Mullard 1960's[/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)]CV2493=E88CC-01 Mullard late 1960's to mid-1970's[/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)]6922 Amperex USA "PQ" white printing 1960's then orange printing 1967-1972[/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)]GB-6922 Sylvania GOld Brand Gold Pins 1960's[/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)]6922 Sylvania, many are branded RCA 1970's - 1980's[/color] [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)]6922 Tesla Gold Pins - older stock (very good value)[/color][/color]
> ```


 
 Tube Dealers:
 http://www.audiotubes.com
 http://www.tubemonger.com (also has risers that make swapping tubes easier)
 http://www.upscaleaudio.com
 https://www.tubeworld.com/index_high.htm
 https://www.tubedepot.com/?gclid=Cj0KEQjw6vquBRCow62uo-_J_YYBEiQAMO6Hil3loLWNVxoT8oQDTaXV3aA7xVL3mLx4hirphsPT4H0aAs2n8P8HAQ
 http://www.thetubestore.com
 https://www.cryoset.com
  
 Have fun!


----------



## Mediahound

Thanks! 

It seems like neutral and holographic are terms they use a lot as good traits but I'm actually looking for something with a bit of a darker sound signature, albeit not overly dark like the 6L1P I once tried. 

Any suggestions for nos tubes along these lines?


----------



## rb2013

mediahound said:


> Thanks!
> 
> It seems like neutral and holographic are terms they use a lot as good traits but I'm actually looking for something with a bit of a darker sound signature, albeit not overly dark like the 6L1P I once tried.
> 
> Any suggestions for nos tubes along these lines?


Sure the rare but really excellent Lorenz Suttgart triple micas - dark but lushess tone. Amerpex D Getter pinched waists.

More realistic some of the Amperex OG's (Orange Globes), not as sweet, but some folks like them. Mercedesman on Ebay has been a reliable source. Bugle Boy DGetters too.

In the mid price range US made Amperex 6922 white print '60s.

PS also Mullard cv2493 - but expensive. Maybe to ripe in the mids. What HPs do you have?


----------



## JK-47

I wouldn't overlook the made in Holland Amperex 6DJ8's, reasonablty priced, but many are microphonic.


----------



## rb2013

jk-47 said:


> I wouldn't overlook the made in Holland Amperex 6DJ8's, reasonablty priced, but many are microphonic.


Well I did mention the PWs. True on the microphonic side for the Amperex holland. Microphonics are system dependent, on the Lyr it's quite suseptible to microphonics. Microphonics is a ringing like sound, similar to a 'ting'.

The 6dj8/ECC88 has a 5,000 hr life, whereas the 6922/E88CC/6N23P/CCa/E188CC/7308 have a 10,000 hour life expectancy.


----------



## JK-47

Still not impossible to find Amperex 6DJ8's that are good, and cost 1/2 to 1/3 of the PW's. I bought my dad Amperex 7308 PW's, and for some reason he keeps on going back to the Holland 6DJ8's in his Lyr2... Oh well, to each their own.
  
 Thanks for the tube guide rb2013


----------



## rb2013

jk-47 said:


> Still not impossible to find Amperex 6DJ8's that are good, and cost 1/2 to 1/3 of the PW's. I bought my dad Amperex 7308 PW's, and for some reason he keeps on going back to the Holland 6DJ8's in his Lyr2... Oh well, to each their own.
> 
> Thanks for the tube guide rb2013


----------



## Mediahound

jk-47 said:


> I wouldn't overlook the made in Holland Amperex 6DJ8's, reasonablty priced, but many are microphonic.




This is actually what I'm running in my Mjolnir2 currently. Aka Orange Globes. Really not bad. I'm just wanting to see what else is out there.


----------



## JK-47

mediahound said:


> This is actually what I'm running in my Mjolnir2 currently. Aka Orange Globes. Really not bad. I'm just wanting to see what else is out there.


 

 I have Orange Globe 12AU7's in rotation for my Elekit-TU8200DX... Orange Globe Amperex are later production, and may have a slightly different sound signature than earlier years. I have the Herleen "Bugle Boys".
  
 What kind of cans do you have?
  
 My HD650's get along much better with my Elekit than the MJ2, My LCD2.2F's are nice with both. Sorry if I'm repeating myself, I'm 15 cold boys deep...


----------



## Mediahound

jk-47 said:


> I have Orange Globe 12AU7's in rotation for my Elekit-TU8200DX... Orange Globe Amperex are later production, and may have a slightly different sound signature than earlier years. I have the Herleen "Bugle Boys".
> 
> What kind of cans do you have?
> 
> My HD650's get along much better with my Elekit than the MJ2, My LCD2.2F's are nice with both. Sorry if I'm repeating myself, I'm 15 cold boys deep...




I have lcd3's.


----------



## JK-47

Fazor?


----------



## Mediahound

jk-47 said:


> Fazor?




 Nope.


----------



## Argo Duck

Consider Matsushi ta (National) 6922. They were a revelation in my Lyr 1 some years ago. MacedonianHero directed me to them, describing them as having a "wonderful, earthy tone". He was right, they do - along with a clarity and extension I didn't experience with either stock options or other similarly priced NOS tubes.

I got mine from tubemonger where they seem to be out of stock, but upscale lists them.



mediahound said:


> Thanks!
> 
> It seems like neutral and holographic are terms they use a lot as good traits but *I'm actually looking for something with a bit of a darker sound signature, albeit not overly dark* like the 6L1P I once tried.
> 
> Any suggestions for nos tubes along these lines?


----------



## rb2013

reddog said:


> Yes I got the HE1K's and they are a fantastic headphone. I wish the strap on the production set was a tad longer and the HE1K would be perfect.


 

 Nice!


----------



## Mediahound

argo duck said:


> Consider Matsushi ta (National) 6922. They were a revelation in my Lyr 1 some years ago. MacedonianHero directed me to them, describing them as having a "wonderful, earthy tone". He was right, they do - along with a clarity and extension I didn't experience with either stock options or other similarly priced NOS tubes.
> 
> I got mine from tubemonger where they seem to be out of stock, but upscale lists them.


 

 Thanks, will check those out.


----------



## reddog

argo duck said:


> Consider Matsushi ta (National) 6922. They were a revelation in my Lyr 1 some years ago. MacedonianHero directed me to them, describing them as having a "wonderful, earthy tone". He was right, they do - along with a clarity and extension I didn't experience with either stock options or other similarly priced NOS tubes.
> 
> I got mine from tubemonger where they seem to be out of stock, but upscale lists them.



I will check out matsushi ta(national) 6922 sound like a intriguing tube, to try in my lyr2.


----------



## screwdriver

Ehan I had my amp using 6922 tubes , the best sound quality I had are when I used the Telefunken , also the ediswans are very good


----------



## Trastan

I've been reading the Mjolnir (1) thread, and a lot of folks are saying that the Mjolnir needs around eight hours of warm up time to sound good, and that it's wise to just leave it on all the time, if possible. Obviously that's not a great idea if you're running tubes.
  
 What do you all think? Cause for concern?


----------



## Shembot

trastan said:


> I've been reading the Mjolnir (1) thread, and a lot of folks are saying that the Mjolnir needs around eight hours of warm up time to sound good, and that it's wise to just leave it on all the time, if possible. Obviously that's not a great idea if you're running tubes.
> 
> What do you all think? Cause for concern?


 

 My experience with the Mjolnir 2 so far is that it doesn't require many hours of warm-up time. It's good to go once it's physically warm. Then again, I also didn't think the Mjolnir 1 needed to be warmed up forever either.


----------



## Mediahound

trastan said:


> I've been reading the Mjolnir (1) thread, and a lot of folks are saying that the Mjolnir needs around eight hours of warm up time to sound good, and that it's wise to just leave it on all the time, if possible. Obviously that's not a great idea if you're running tubes.
> 
> What do you all think? Cause for concern?


 

 The manuals states they recommend turning it off when you aren't using it. I suppose if you're running LISST's you could leave it on, but it generates some heat and takes a decent amount of power so probably doesn't make sense. And if you're running tubes, that would wear them down quicker so no good.


----------



## Skooks

Well folks, a few pages back I asked the question if anyone had heard the Mjolnir 2 drive the HE-6's, which I have, and CrocCap spoke up and said he carried his HE-6's to the can jam, or whatever it was, and he was impressed with the sound. From that post, I ordered the M2 that evening a few minutes before midnight EDT and specified FedEx 2 Day. They were shipped that afternoon and I received them this morning about 10am. First of all, I have to commend the folks at the "nameless company" for such speedy shipping.
  
 The M2 arrived in excellent shape. I put the stock 6BZ7 tubes in... hooked it up in balanced mode from a Wyred 4 Sound DAC that gets USB FLAC files from my iMac running the Audirvana Plus music program... plugged in my balanced Norne Audio Zoetic cable from my HE-6's... and let it all warm up for an hour.
  
 Then I began listening at intervals until now... shortly after 9pm. So, the M2 and its tubes have about 10 hours of playing time. Way too early to give you a detailed summary of my impressions, but I will say this without stretching anything... this is one SUPER headphone amp!! Let me repeat that... this is one SUPER headphone amp!!
  
 Already it is so airy, dynamic with black background, good bass, and yet very sweet in the mids and highs with female and male voices. When I listened to one of the best recordings to show off a headphone system... Wycliffe Gordon's album called "Dreams of New Orleans" on the Chesky label (192khz) recorded with one mic in binaural... it was absolutely fantastic! You got to hear it to believe it... the HE-6's driven by the M2 really puts you in the middle of the group. But, never forget, it's the overall system that produces good sound. The M2 has found a home indeed.
  
 I've listened to a little bit of everything... symphony orchestras, piano solos, choirs, pop, country... the stuff I have and like. I have not heard anything I'm disappointed about. And, just think... I'm just playing with stock tubes... which ain't bad... but knowing tubes, I will start buying and rolling in about a week. There are no harsh peaks in the highs... nothing bad at all. And, I've listened quite loudly. And speaking of loud with the HE-6's... I never opened the volume control past the 1 o'clock position... and for most, I played in the 10:30-11 o'clock range. It drives the HE-6's with ease and control.
  
 Did I get the solid state thingy migigs... no thank you. I sold a good solid state amp to go tubes. And tubes it will be.
  
 Thank you, CrocCap, for the good recommendation... I owe you one!


----------



## rb2013

skooks said:


> Well folks, a few pages back I asked the question if anyone had heard the Mjolnir 2 drive the HE-6's, which I have, and CrocCap spoke up and said he carried his HE-6's to the can jam, or whatever it was, and he was impressed with the sound. From that post, I ordered the M2 that evening a few minutes before midnight EDT and specified FedEx 2 Day. They were shipped that afternoon and I received them this morning about 10am. First of all, I have to commend the folks at the "nameless company" for such speedy shipping.
> 
> The M2 arrived in excellent shape. I put the stock 6BZ7 tubes in... hooked it up in balanced mode from a Wyred 4 Sound DAC that gets USB FLAC files from my iMac running the Audirvana Plus music program... plugged in my balanced Norne Audio Zoetic cable from my HE-6's... and let it all warm up for an hour.
> 
> ...


Nice mini review. Your HE-6‘s need juice and it looks like the MJ2 has it. How's the bass?

Plan on some tube rolling?


----------



## rb2013

Anyone looking to do some serious tube rolling in the MJ2 should check out a pr of the these tube risers.  They make pulling the tubes way easier and save some wear and tear on the MJ2 tube sockets.  On my Lyr they've been indispensable.  They come in two styles - I've had both.  These are my favorites.
  

  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Skooks

rb2013 said:


> Nice mini review. Your HE-6‘s need juice and it looks like the MJ2 has it. How's the bass?
> 
> Plan on some tube rolling?


----------



## Skooks

The bass at this point is very good... I played some Chesky organ music and it rumbled way on down with authority. I listened also to test tracks by Chesky with bass guitar... sounded very good. I listened to such a variety of music and test tracks and I honestly don't think the M2 has a real weakness.
  
 I want to see where it goes after about 150 hours with these stock tubes, then I will know for sure what I will be listening for with some good NOS tubes, or even some good new tubes. But, don't put these stock tubes down just because they are OEM's. I think the boys at Schiit like to send their stuff out so as to make a good impression with their OEM's. But, I know there is better... always is. Yes, I will be rolling!


----------



## rb2013

skooks said:


> The bass at this point is very good... I played some Chesky organ music and it rumbled way on down with authority. I listened also to test tracks by Chesky with bass guitar... sounded very good. I listened to such a variety of music and test tracks and I honestly don't think the M2 has a real weakness.
> 
> I want to see where it goes after about 150 hours with these stock tubes, then I will know for sure what I will be listening for with some good NOS tubes, or even some good new tubes. But, don't put these stock tubes down just because they are OEM's. I think the boys at Schiit like to send their stuff out so as to make a good impression with their OEM's. But, I know there is better... always is. Yes, I will be rolling!


Sounds really good. My HD800‘s with the Moon Black Dragon V2 balanced should be a great combination. I give them credit for including decent NOS tubes versus new std fair like JJ's. I'm amazed when I see $4k dacs supplied with $30 tubes. 

Happy rolling


----------



## CrocCap

skooks said:


> Well folks, a few pages back I asked the question if anyone had heard the Mjolnir 2 drive the HE-6's, which I have, and CrocCap spoke up and said he carried his HE-6's to the can jam, or whatever it was, and he was impressed with the sound. From that post, I ordered the M2 that evening a few minutes before midnight EDT and specified FedEx 2 Day. They were shipped that afternoon and I received them this morning about 10am. First of all, I have to commend the folks at the "nameless company" for such speedy shipping.
> 
> The M2 arrived in excellent shape. I put the stock 6BZ7 tubes in... hooked it up in balanced mode from a Wyred 4 Sound DAC that gets USB FLAC files from my iMac running the Audirvana Plus music program... plugged in my balanced Norne Audio Zoetic cable from my HE-6's... and let it all warm up for an hour.
> 
> ...


 
 Superb.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rb2013 said:


> Anyone looking to do some serious tube rolling in the MJ2 should check out a pr of the these tube risers.  They make pulling the tubes way easier and save some wear and tear on the MJ2 tube sockets.  On my Lyr they've been indispensable.  They come in two styles - I've had both.  These are my favorites.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hey Bob!
 Yes-and thank you for suggesting them. I've been happy with them on my Lyr.


----------



## reddog

rb2013 said:


> Anyone looking to do some serious tube rolling in the MJ2 should check out a pr of the these tube risers.  They make pulling the tubes way easier and save some wear and tear on the MJ2 tube sockets.  On my Lyr they've been indispensable.  They come in two styles - I've had both.  These are my favorites.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks Bob, I broke down and ordered a pair last night. I will order the Mjolnir 2 at the end of September. I feel that is a more positive way to spend the money. A few people want me to go clubing, while my mother is in rehab, learning how to walk and what have you. Once I have the Mjolnir 2, I will go on a quest to get some Ediswan tubes to go with the amp. Please have a goodnight jamming out Bob.


----------



## Mediahound

rb2013 said:


> Anyone looking to do some serious tube rolling in the MJ2 should check out a pr of the these tube risers.  They make pulling the tubes way easier and save some wear and tear on the MJ2 tube sockets.  On my Lyr they've been indispensable.  They come in two styles - I've had both.  These are my favorites.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



  
 Quote:


reddog said:


> Thanks Bob, I broke down and ordered a pair last night. I will order the Mjolnir 2 at the end of September. I feel that is a more positive way to spend the money. A few people want me to go clubing, while my mother is in rehab, learning how to walk and what have you. Once I have the Mjolnir 2, I will go on a quest to get some Ediswan tubes to go with the amp. Please have a goodnight jamming out Bob.


 
  
 Do you notice any sound quality different with them? I guess they're supposed to help reduce vibrations to the tubes.


----------



## reddog

mediahound said:


> Do you notice any sound quality different with them? I guess they're supposed to help reduce vibrations to the tubes.



The socket savers also make it easier to roll tubes. My fingers are increasingly getting numb and I need all the help I can get, when it come to getting a secure grip on the tubes, to pull them out.


----------



## Mediahound

reddog said:


> The socket savers also make it easier to roll tubes. My fingers are increasingly getting numb and I need all the help I can get, when it come to getting a secure grip on the tubes, to pull them out.


 

 Does the socket saver also come out when you remove a tube? Or, does it remain seated?


----------



## reddog

mediahound said:


> Does the socket saver also come out when you remove a tube? Or, does it remain seated?




It can but if one uses a wooden ice cream bar stick or tongue suppressor, to hold the socket saver in as you remove the tube.


----------



## money4me247

do note that while tubes may be quite difficult to put in and pull out at first in a new amp, it becomes much easier after a few swaps. I used to be strongly considering socket savers, but honestly, they are not as necessary as I first thought.
  
 no issues removing tubes nowadays. If you have extremely difficult to remove tubes, use some kitchen elastic plastic wrap which will grip the glass very securely for easy removal without any fear of squeezing the tube too tightly & breaking it (aka do NOT use normal pliers).


----------



## Mediahound

money4me247 said:


> do note that while tubes may be quite difficult to put in and pull out at first in a new amp, it becomes much easier after a few swaps. I used to be strongly considering socket savers, but honestly, they are not as necessary as I first thought.
> 
> no issues removing tubes nowadays. If you have extremely difficult to remove tubes, use some kitchen elastic plastic wrap which will grip the glass very securely for easy removal without any fear of squeezing the tube too tightly & breaking it (aka do NOT use normal pliers).


 

 I usually wear nitrile gloves. Makes gripping the tubes much easier and also protects the glass from skin oil on your fingers etc. 
  
 Dishwashing gloves work too, just not quite as precise.


----------



## rb2013

reddog said:


> Thanks Bob, I broke down and ordered a pair last night. I will order the Mjolnir 2 at the end of September. I feel that is a more positive way to spend the money. A few people want me to go clubing, while my mother is in rehab, learning how to walk and what have you. Once I have the Mjolnir 2, I will go on a quest to get some Ediswan tubes to go with the amp. Please have a goodnight jamming out Bob.


 
 So sorry to hear about your mom - hope she gets better soon. 
  
 The risers have saved my fingers from blisters!  Actually I'm on my third set of them (the first two were the black base ones), I literately wore them out.  Just my 6922 17 tube review took over 120 rolls!  I've been through 100 different types of 6922's (20 different), E88CC's, CCa's, 6N23p's (30 different) , 6N1P's, E188CC's, 7308's, 6DJ8's, E288CC's, 7DJ8's. 2492's, 2493's, E189CC's, ECC88's, 6N5P's, 6BZ7's - over the last few years in the Lyr.  Probably few 1000 rolls!  Can't wait to get that MJ2 as well.
  


mediahound said:


> Do you notice any sound quality different with them? I guess they're supposed to help reduce vibrations to the tubes.


 
 I did not notice any difference with them or without - I do use Herbie dampeners and my Lyr sits on top of Cerball isolation devices.  The tube risers do allow enough of the tube to extend out the top of the deck to use the Herbies.  I've tried several - and these are my favorites Ultra Sonic Rx Dampeners - http://herbiesaudiolab.net/rx.htm


----------



## rb2013

I also highly recommend using some DeoxIT GxMD Gold - it acts as a lubicant and contact enhancer.
  
 Comes in a single bottle or smaller tube:
 http://www.amazon.com/DeoxITGOLD-Liquid-Brush-Applicator-Conditioner/dp/B0015A7CYG/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1440894081&sr=8-3&keywords=deoxit+gold
  
 and as a Vacuum Tube Cleaning Kit - the one I get, as I collect a lot of vintage tubes from the '50s, 60's, 70's, 80's etc..
 http://www.amazon.com/Deoxit-Gold-Vacuum-Cleaning-Kit-2pack/dp/B00OJQSMN8/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1440894134&sr=8-8&keywords=deoxit+tube+kit
  
 Just apply a small amount on the lower half of the pins - wipe off the excess and pop them in.  Makes it so much easier to remove - and I do notice better sound quality after treatment.  On my favorite 6n23p vintage tubes - the DeoxIT D100 works great to remove the oxidation on the pins - I use the enclosed brush to gently brush the pins after soaking and wiping (special pads included in the kit)  - finally I apply the GxMD Gold to inhibit future oxidation and as contact enhancer.
  
 No saying I'm a little OCD with my vintage tube collection.  They sure make my amps sing!
  
 Cheers


----------



## JK-47

My Dad and I I both have Tube monger socket savers, and they do the trick nicely. I can't use them at the moment due to clearance issues (tubes are too tall with savers).

  
 Someone else mentioned tape to help get at them. Post it notes, thick rubber bands, and stickers are also good. Corral the far side, steady the tube with your thumb or finger and gently pull straight up.


----------



## Mediahound

Got the MJ2 fired up for a Saturday night listening session:


----------



## reddog

mediahound said:


> Got the MJ2 fired up for a Saturday night listening session:



Sweet I hope you have a great night jamming out.


----------



## rb2013

mediahound said:


> Got the MJ2 fired up for a Saturday night listening session:


Beautiful!


----------



## Mediahound

Thanks.
  
 Of course they don't really look that bright in real life but shooting with really high ISO on the camera, in low light,  and slow shutter speed, really brings out the fire in the tubes!


----------



## Skooks

I used surgical gloves to pull my tubes. They are very sticky on the glass. Buy 'em by the box and keep 'em handy for rolling those tubes.


----------



## rb2013

mediahound said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Of course they don't really look that bright in real life but shooting with really high ISO on the camera, in low light,  and slow shutter speed, really brings out the fire in the tubes!


 

 Lightning in a bottle!


----------



## Mediahound

jk-47 said:


> My Dad and I I both have Tube monger socket savers, and they do the trick nicely. I can't use them at the moment due to clearance issues (tubes are too tall with savers).
> 
> 
> Someone else mentioned tape to help get at them. Post it notes, thick rubber bands, and stickers are also good. Corral the far side, steady the tube with your thumb or finger and gently pull straight up.




I've also found it helps to rock the tube in a circular motion while pulling it out (don't rotate it though). Sometimes just pulling straight up will make it snap release too forcefully. This is especially the case when the amp is new and the tube sockets are tight.


----------



## JK-47

mediahound said:


> I've also found it helps to rock the tube in a circular motion while pulling it out (don't rotate it though). Sometimes just pulling straight up will make it snap release too forcefully. This is especially the case when the amp is new and the tube sockets are tight.


 

 Just take it nice and easy if you are going to use a circular motion, that wears the pins and socket. It's all gravy once the first tube is out, because you can stick your finger inside to help the second one out.


----------



## Mediahound

jk-47 said:


> It's all gravy once the first tube is out, because you can stick your finger inside to help the second one out.


 
  
 Can't believe I never thought of doing that.


----------



## Shembot

mediahound said:


> Can't believe I never thought of doing that.


 

 Oh, Schiit. Neither did I.


----------



## JK-47

mediahound said:


> Can't believe I never thought of doing that.


 

 lol..I actually started taking the second one out with the tape trick before it clicked in... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I set my self up for the sarcastic comments with that one...lol


----------



## Mediahound

rb2013 said:


> I also highly recommend using some DeoxIT GxMD Gold - it acts as a lubicant and contact enhancer.
> 
> Comes in a single bottle or smaller tube:
> http://www.amazon.com/DeoxITGOLD-Liquid-Brush-Applicator-Conditioner/dp/B0015A7CYG/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1440894081&sr=8-3&keywords=deoxit+gold
> ...


 

 I ordered some of the DeOxit, just to help prevent oxidation on the pins and other connections in my system. Are you sure it's safe for tubes and tube sockets?
  
 Regarding the expensive tube pin cleaning kit, I think it's not needed.
  
 Non gold tube pins which have oxidation on them, can be cleaned by gently scraping them with an exacto knife. And gold pins do not oxidize so no cleaning or treatment of those is needed.


----------



## rb2013

mediahound said:


> I ordered some of the DeOxit, just to help prevent oxidation on the pins and other connections in my system. Are you sure it's safe for tubes and tube sockets?
> 
> Regarding the expensive tube pin cleaning kit, I think it's not needed.
> 
> Non gold tube pins which have oxidation on them, can be cleaned by gently scraping them with an exacto knife. And gold pins do not oxidize so no cleaning or treatment of those is needed.


 

 I have been using the DeoxIT Gold for years (used to be called ProGold - now GxMD).  Perfectly safe.  That's why they include it in the 'Vacuum Tube Survival Kit'.  Just use a small amount - bottom half of the pins - wipe off excess.  More is not better in this case.  As the pins push into the socket, it will spread.  
  
 You can use pure alcohol to clean mildly oxidized pins - I would not scrap them with a knife.  The pins travel through glass and strong vibrations can effect the vacuum seal - once that goes the tube is finished.
  
 Been doing this a tube thing for a few decades - tried it all.  Soft tooth brush - gently brush is OK.  No metal brush or files.


----------



## Mediahound

rb2013 said:


> I have been using the DeoxIT Gold for years (used to be called ProGold - now GxMD).  Perfectly safe.  That's why they include it in the 'Vacuum Tube Survival Kit'.  Just use a small amount - bottom half of the pins - wipe off excess.  More is not better in this case.  As the pins push into the socket, it will spread.
> 
> You can use pure alcohol to clean mildly oxidized pins - I would not scrap them with a knife.  The pins travel through glass and strong vibrations can effect the vacuum seal - once that goes the tube is finished.
> 
> Been doing this a tube thing for a few decades - tried it all.  Soft tooth brush - gently brush is OK.  No metal brush or files.


 

 Thanks. Makes sense.


----------



## JK-47

rb2013 said:


> I have been using the DeoxIT Gold for years (used to be called ProGold - now GxMD).  Perfectly safe.  That's why they include it in the 'Vacuum Tube Survival Kit'.  Just use a small amount - bottom half of the pins - wipe off excess.  More is not better in this case.  As the pins push into the socket, it will spread.
> 
> You can use pure alcohol to clean mildly oxidized pins - I would not scrap them with a knife.  The pins travel through glass and strong vibrations can effect the vacuum seal - once that goes the tube is finished.
> 
> Been doing this a tube thing for a few decades - tried it all.  Soft tooth brush - gently brush is OK.  No metal brush or files.


 

 I also use both De-Oxit's on my tubes. First I give them a light scrub with a brass gun bore cleaning brush.


----------



## Mediahound

jk-47 said:


> I also use both De-Oxit's on my tubes. First I give them a light scrub with a brass gun bore cleaning brush.


 

 Some of the reviews say the stuff actually improves sound quality. I can't wait to try it.


----------



## Mediahound

Regarding socket savers:
  
 I have not tried this but I think probably the best way to remove socket savers out of the amp is to use a few strips of tape inserted (without tubes of course) vertically and then stuck to the socket saver. Then, pull up on each piece of tape evenly to pull up the socket saver. You can use the tops of the strips of tape as a handle.
  
 Does this makes sense to those with experience with this?
  
 UPDATE: Now that I think about it, I think a sticker would work better. Use 2 of them and roll them and lower them to stick to the socket saver, then lift. 
  
 Does this seem sound? I know I'm probably over thinking this but I'm sorta OCD that way.


----------



## JK-47

mediahound said:


> Some of the reviews say the stuff actually improves sound quality. I can't wait to try it.


 

 I haven't tried any tubes without cleaning the pins with at least the brass brush and alcohol. I didn't notice any change in sound when I added the De-Oxit, just that the tubes slid in and out of the sockets easier.


----------



## Poimandres

Used only as LISST is there much difference in sq from the original Mjolnir?


----------



## Mediahound

poimandres said:


> Used only as LISST is there much difference in sq from the original Mjolnir?


 

 I can't answer from personal experience but did read a posting by Jason saying he thinks it sounds even better than the original Mjolnir.


----------



## Mediahound

Anyone know if the MJ2 runs hotter than the Lyr in terms of heat to the tubes?


----------



## tamleo

Always think my Mjolnir 1 have a slightly v-shaped sound and soft-bass. And Jason said the Mjolnir 2 have a "harder" sound. It is what i like. Can't wait for a comparison between the 2 Mjolnirs


----------



## Shembot

tamleo said:


> Always think my Mjolnir 1 have a slightly v-shaped sound and soft-bass. And Jason said the Mjolnir 2 have a "harder" sound. It is what i like. Can't wait for a comparison between the 2 Mjolnirs


 

 My comparison between the two Mjolnirs is very simple. Mjolnir 2 eliminates the common "complaints" about Mjolnir 1 -- that the low-end was a bit thin, and that there's a bit of upper-mid glare. As far as my ears can tell, Mjolnir 2 is totally neutral all the way up and down -- pretty much the perfect amp.


----------



## Trastan

shembot said:


> My comparison between the two Mjolnirs is very simple. Mjolnir 2 eliminates the common "complaints" about Mjolnir 1 -- that the low-end was a bit thin, and that there's a bit of upper-mid glare. As far as my ears can tell, Mjolnir 2 is totally neutral all the way up and down -- pretty much the perfect amp.


 
 Interesting - thanks for the input. Can I ask which tubes (or LISST) you're using?


----------



## Shembot

trastan said:


> Interesting - thanks for the input. Can I ask which tubes (or LISST) you're using?


 

 My comparison above applies to both the LISST and to the Lyr stock tubes (which can be ordered with the Mjolnir 2). I haven't spent much time with the LISST yet, so take this data point with a grain of salt, but the LISST initially sounds to me like the Mjolnir 1 but with the two flaws I mentioned corrected and a bit more resolution. I've been mostly using the tubes, which I think give the sound signature greater depth, though again I haven't spent a great deal of time with LISST to do a thorough comparison. I have new tubes arriving today or tomorrow to try out as well, and I'll report my results with those as well.


----------



## Trastan

shembot said:


> My comparison above applies to both the LISST and to the Lyr stock tubes (which can be ordered with the Mjolnir 2). I haven't spent much time with the LISST yet, so take this data point with a grain of salt, but the LISST initially sounds to me like the Mjolnir 1 but with the two flaws I mentioned corrected and a bit more resolution. I've been mostly using the tubes, which I think give the sound signature greater depth, though again I haven't spent a great deal of time with LISST to do a thorough comparison. I have new tubes arriving today or tomorrow to try out as well, and I'll report my results with those as well.


 
 That's great to hear! Mine comes tomorrow, and I'm looking forward to hearing an amp of this quality (the best amp that I'd used up to this point has been my Asgard 2!). Unfortunate that all that I'll have for a DAC is a Bifrost Uber, but I'm hoping that it'll do a solid job until I'm able to afford the Gungnir Multibit. 
  
 I've read a lot about the Mjolnir pairing up exceptionally well with the LCD line, which is giving me pause. My primary set right now is a pair of Fostex TH-900, and I'm hoping that they'll be a good pairing. We'll see how it goes.


----------



## Shembot

trastan said:


> That's great to hear! Mine comes tomorrow, and I'm looking forward to hearing an amp of this quality (the best amp that I'd used up to this point has been my Asgard 2!). Unfortunate that all that I'll have for a DAC is a Bifrost Uber, but I'm hoping that it'll do a solid job until I'm able to afford the Gungnir Multibit.
> 
> I've read a lot about the Mjolnir pairing up exceptionally well with the LCD line, which is giving me pause. My primary set right now is a pair of Fostex TH-900, and I'm hoping that they'll be a good pairing. We'll see how it goes.


 

 You won't be disappointed with the Bifrost Uber and the Mjolnir 2. I used my Modi 2 Uber as the DAC behind my Mjolnir 2 for a week while I was waiting for my Gungnir to be upgraded, and it sounded superb. That's part of how I came to the conclusion that the MJ2 is such a great amp.


----------



## Mediahound

I think Schiit has really 'hit it out of the park' for their first balanced tube amp. Enjoying it tons here and think it was a smart move to not try to re-invent the wheel but rather build, improve upon and tweak the already known platform. (Same with Gungnir Muiltibit).
  
 Although in a way, they did exactly that and kinda reinvented the wheel with LISSTs!


----------



## Argo Duck

^ True, though the Mj 2 (SS or tube) is pretty much what Jason planned/envisaged for Schiit's statement amp right at the beginning.
It was fascinating following his announcements and thinking out loud back then. This was before he learned _not_ to pre-announce stuff 

Schiit always promised upgradability, so I guess it's logical to build new tech into an existing chassis. An upgrade though? What an upgrade! I haven't heard either yet but from impressions Gumby sounds like a game-change from Gungnir DS - in fact, from DS DACs (at that price point) in general.


----------



## schiitdrummer

System Uber Bifrost > Mjolnir 2 > SE HD700
  
      My impression of this amp is prefaced by my move from a Schiit Vali to the Mjolnir 2.  I ordered mine with Schiit’s 6BZ7 Tubes and their new impressive LISST.  The amp arrived on 9-1-15.
     
      There is a body built like John Cena coming from this amp.  No, the body is like John Cena and Jillian Michaels had a kid and he or she toned up on muscle beach 12 hours a day. Remember to breathe.  Do you remember stretching in a team sport and getting apart from the group at arms length?  Instrument separation is evident.  I’m particularly happy with this effect from the LISST.  There is a decline in the (not dreadful) harshness of the HD700 through this amp. I am in the market for an opposing force when it comes to headphones, I’ll be certain to get my ears on and around the ETHER C at Can Jam at RMAF this October.  But for now, my stellar HD700s have had a haircut and they sound slick.  
  
 Lows: Chunky, Richie, Speedy, Punchy.  If you got in a fight the lows would totally have your back.
  
 Mids: Claritin Clear, Articulate, Airy.  This section of the spectrum, with the Vali, shone above the other two.  However in Mjolnir 2, I found the mids move into line and the music comes to center stage.
  
 Highs: Crisp, some sparkle bit like a fairy fart, Detailed.  There were sounds that previously went unnoticed in tracks I tested. Mjolnir 2's lightning lit up the corners of the music file like a Chinese chemical plant.
 Thus ends impressions.
                         
 P.S. Going from a se dac to a balanced amp.  Does it make sense to upgrade to a balanced cable for my headphones?


----------



## blance44

schiitdrummer said:


> P.S. Going from a se dac to a balanced amp.  Does it make sense to upgrade to a balanced cable for my headphones?


 
 I would say yes, you should get better separation and overall better performance out of your hd 700's. From my experience with balancing my hd 800's, I would say it's totally worth it.


----------



## tuxbass

My MJ2 is expected to be delivered late next week. Can't wait 
 Sorry I am not adding any value to the discussion (and I am a newbie here my first post, so go ahead and make fun of me ) ... but very excited. This is will my first balanced Amp and my first standalone amp (I'm making a huge leap from my existing DacMagic Plus DAC/Amp).
  
 Eyeing the GMB for my next upgrade. Any other DAC suggestions to pair with MJ2 ?


----------



## Trastan

Received my Mjolnir 2 today. After letting it burn in for a few hours (with LISST), I've been running through my collection. I have to say, the Fostex TH-900 + Bifrost Uber USB2 + Mjolnir 2 combo really brings out poor recordings. I'm discovering that an uncomfortable amount of my library (much of it electronic music) just sounds like crap now, and often have sibilants coming out of their ears (and into mine). It's been a strangely sad experience, watching my library separated into the wheat and the chaff. 
  
 That said, the best, remaining songs sound *so good*. Great production values and high bitrates are so evident now, and I'm expecting this turn of events to affect my listening preferences in the future. I've never heard these songs with clarity and power like this. It makes me excited to discover how the Mjolnir 2 will sound after a few good weeks of usage. 
  
 I'm also wondering, now, if I'd prefer a less brutal headphone, at least some times. I think it's time to look at the Audeze line-up, specifically the LCD-2 and 3. My (educated, after reading much of the original Mjolnir thread) guess is that one of those would be an endgame solution for me. If that turns out to be the case, my Fostex may be for sale in the future.
  
 Getting closer to the "end"!


----------



## Mediahound

trastan said:


> Received my Mjolnir 2 today. After letting it burn in for a few hours (with LISST), I've been running through my collection. I have to say, the Fostex TH-900 + Bifrost Uber USB2 + Mjolnir 2 combo really brings out poor recordings. I'm discovering that an uncomfortable amount of my library (much of it electronic music) just sounds like crap now, and often have sibilants coming out of their ears (and into mine). It's been a strangely sad experience, watching my library separated into the wheat and the chaff.
> 
> That said, the best, remaining songs sound *so good*. Great production values and high bitrates are so evident now, and I'm expecting this turn of events to affect my listening preferences in the future. I've never heard these songs with clarity and power like this. It makes me excited to discover how the Mjolnir 2 will sound after a few good weeks of usage.
> 
> ...




I sold my th900 for that reason myself.


----------



## JK-47

mediahound said:


> I sold my th900 for that reason myself.


 

 I sold my TH600 for that reason too.


----------



## Trastan

mediahound said:


> I sold my th900 for that reason myself.


 
 Good to know I'm not alone in that opinion. I'm not sure if I'll be able to bring myself to part with the TH-900, but saving up for an LCD-2 or 3 sure sounds like a good idea right now.
  
 One other thing that's surprising me: well-produced songs that I'd written off (with lower-grade equipment) as poor sounding are showing up and blowing me away! I used to have serious difficulty just making these sound reasonable, and now they're flawless without any EQ at all. Amazing.


----------



## mangler

When paired with my Yggy, the TH900 actually sounds butter smooth coming out of the MJ2. Makes me want to get the TH900 balanced to get the full benefit out of the MJ2 (right now I can only use my LCD-X balanced)


----------



## Trastan

mangler said:


> When paired with my Yggy, the TH900 actually sounds butter smooth coming out of the MJ2. Makes me want to get the TH900 balanced to get the full benefit out of the MJ2 (right now I can only use my LCD-X balanced)


 
 Don't get me wrong - it's the songs themselves that are giving me a problem, not the Bifrost. Well-recorded/produced/encoded tracks sound *fantastic*. Not that I doubt the Yggdrasil! I just don't think that Yggy's going to fix music that's inherently broken (nor should it).


----------



## rb2013

trastan said:


> Received my Mjolnir 2 today. After letting it burn in for a few hours (with LISST), I've been running through my collection. I have to say, the Fostex TH-900 + Bifrost Uber USB2 + Mjolnir 2 combo really brings out poor recordings. I'm discovering that an uncomfortable amount of my library (much of it electronic music) just sounds like crap now, and often have sibilants coming out of their ears (and into mine). It's been a strangely sad experience, watching my library separated into the wheat and the chaff.
> 
> That said, the best, remaining songs sound *so good*. Great production values and high bitrates are so evident now, and I'm expecting this turn of events to affect my listening preferences in the future. I've never heard these songs with clarity and power like this. It makes me excited to discover how the Mjolnir 2 will sound after a few good weeks of usage.
> 
> ...


 

 Try some tubes - some will help add musicality to the MJ2.


----------



## Trastan

rb2013 said:


> Try some tubes - some will help add musicality to the MJ2.



 


I've tried the Lyr tubes and a set of Gold Lions, but I'll need more time to discern the nuances. With my limited time to listen yesterday, I didn't find a significant difference between them and the LISST. I think that I'll need to find the right track(s) and do some comparisons when I have more time. 

I'm not crazy about getting into tube rolling, though. I'm more interested in "set it and forget it," and being able to count on my hardware lasting a looong time. Still, I'll give it a shot. I chose the Mjolnir 2 in part due to its tube or solid state changeability, so I definitely plan to do at least a bit of exploring. 

If you have recommendations, of course, I'm all ears.


----------



## rb2013

trastan said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > Try some tubes - some will help add musicality to the MJ2.
> ...


 

 Well first give your MJ2 and the tubes a chance to burnin - say 200 hrs.  Then do some critical evaluations.  If you're still not satisfied - get a feel for what you want more of.  You can then tailor to taste.  What has worked for me in multiple gear (a DAC, two amps and my Lyr HP amp) have been these amazing Russian vintage tubes.  Some folks want a warmer than neutral sound so prefer the 'Holland' sound - Amperex, Philips, Valvo (Herleen).   The beauty of tubes is you can help balance the sound of your system depending on the quality and nature of your source and headphones. 
  
 For example over on the Woo2 rolling thread - the best Russians have become very popular. 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/393811/woo-wa2-tube-rolling-recommendations/480#post_11877440
  
 I'm going to get an MJ2 as soon as funds allow - I'm assuming it will response as well as the Lyr did to tube changes.
  
 Cheers


----------



## mangler

trastan said:


> Don't get me wrong - it's the songs themselves that are giving me a problem, not the Bifrost. Well-recorded/produced/encoded tracks sound *fantastic*. Not that I doubt the Yggdrasil! I just don't think that Yggy's going to fix music that's inherently broken (nor should it).




You're right of course, the Yggy doesn't make bad recordings sound better  i guess I misunderstood what you meant when you said "brutal", as I thought your were referring to the treble spike some complain about. In that sense, all I meant was that the Yggy is very smooth, and that the the treble spike doesn't seem as severe, in the sense that the other DACs I've owned seem a little harsh and "digital"/artificial in comparison, which perhaps makes that treble spike a little more unpleasant. Also, I'll add that I sold off the MJ1 because I felt it was a little too bright, even wth the LCD-2 ( it was suggested to me that this sound signature could have just been that the MJ1 doesn't pair well with sabre dacs, which have also been described as bright). But, with tubes at least, the MJ2 is smoother and seems to be more balanced and full sounding than the MJ1. Anyway, sorry for misunderstanding you


----------



## money4me247

trastan said:


> I've tried the Lyr tubes and a set of Gold Lions, but I'll need more time to discern the nuances. With my limited time to listen yesterday, I didn't find a significant difference between them and the LISST. I think that I'll need to find the right track(s) and do some comparisons when I have more time.
> 
> I'm not crazy about getting into tube rolling, though. I'm more interested in "set it and forget it," and being able to count on my hardware lasting a looong time. Still, I'll give it a shot. I chose the Mjolnir 2 in part due to its tube or solid state changeability, so I definitely plan to do at least a bit of exploring.
> 
> If you have recommendations, of course, I'm all ears.


 
 My personal experience has been quite similar. For me, I don't think tube rolling is worth it sonically for the costs you have to spend. Differences are very very subtle. Seems wiser to just upgrade your headphones or amplifier if you are dissatisfied with the sound or looking for different flavors.


----------



## Trastan

mangler said:


> You're right of course, the Yggy doesn't make bad recordings sound better
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the clarification, mangler. Sounds like the Yggy would be a great match with the TH-900. That said, I'll probably have to settle for the Gungnir Multibit. Hopefully that'll be "endgame" enough for me.


----------



## Hardwired

money4me247 said:


> My personal experience has been quite similar. For me, I don't think tube rolling is worth it sonically for the costs you have to spend. Differences are very very subtle. Seems wiser to just upgrade your headphones or amplifier if you are dissatisfied with the sound or looking for different flavors.


 
  
 I resisted tubes for years because I didn't see how they could be different from solid state. I finally broke down and got a Lyr 2 and a set of tubes that others seemed to like a lot.  To me, the quality of the sound between the tubes and solid state is very similar, but tubes do impart some slight coloration, and that coloration does vary from tube to tube. Ok, no biggie, but if that was the only difference I would have moved on. However, in addition to the slight sound differences the depth or soundstage or air or whatever you want to call it of the music is so much larger with tubes, especially with nice speakers, that it blows my mind every time I listen. Even my wife, who thinks my audio obsession is cute but silly, noticed the difference in about 10 seconds the first time she heard the Lyr. Her words: "Ok, maybe you aren't so dumb".
  
 So now I have an MJ2 at home and the Lyr 2 at work and I'm a tube believer because of the holographic sound stage. The tunable ability tubes give you is nice too, but the soundstage is what sold me. Just my humble opinion.


----------



## Nitori

hardwired said:


> So now I have an MJ2 at home and the Lyr 2 at work and I'm a tube believer because of the holographic sound stage. The tunable ability tubes give you is nice too, but the soundstage is what sold me. Just my humble opinion.


 
  
 May I ask what set of tubes you are using?


----------



## Argo Duck

Purely as another data point, _my_ experience has been quite the opposite. I've managed costs by avoiding - out of necessity! - ultra-expensive tubes (see below for one reason why they become/became expensive). Guess what, I found reasonably priced tubes that were good and...I was startled by the magnitude of the differences (across these three amps: Schiit Lyr 1 (limited tubes tried); Decware Taboo mk II (a lot, Rectifier & driver tubes); Decware CSP2+ (Rectifier & driver tubes)).

The ability to 'tune' for different DAC/HP/Speaker combinations is an added plus, which is where - I completely agree - mere subtleties come into play once one has a small complement of tubes in the 'right' zone for one's preferences and hearing.

One thing I'm nervous about: it was evident the Lyr made certain tubes - found to maximize its performance (not entirely hype I'm pretty sure) - skyrocket in price and dive in availability! The Mj2 is so reasonably priced I fear the same will happen for whatever tubes are found to work best with it.

Not a bad thing of course. Just another success-chapter in Schiit's product evolution.



money4me247 said:


> My personal experience has been quite similar. For me, I don't think tube rolling is worth it sonically for the costs you have to spend. Differences are very very subtle. Seems wiser to just upgrade your headphones or amplifier if you are dissatisfied with the sound or looking for different flavors.


----------



## Hardwired

nitori said:


> May I ask what set of tubes you are using?


 
  
 The advice I took to heart was when someone said "You can start with cheap tubes and work your way up, or you can start at the top where you'll probably end up anyway and save all that money you would have spent on the cheap tubes".
  
 I got the Telefunken platinum grade from Upscale Audio. Love them.
  
 Since then I've acquired Philips Miniwatt SQ, '75 Reflektor, and some Amperex white label, and all of them sound great with small differences between them. The Telefunkens are still my favorite (sorry Bob!) but now I'm worried I won't be able to find any more when mine wear out in 10 years.


----------



## JK-47

hardwired said:


> The advice I took to heart was when someone said "You can start with cheap tubes and work your way up, or you can start at the top where you'll probably end up anyway and save all that money you would have spent on the cheap tubes".
> 
> I got the Telefunken platinum grade from Upscale Audio. Love them.
> 
> Since then I've acquired Philips Miniwatt SQ, '75 Reflektor, and some Amperex white label, and all of them sound great with small differences between them. The Telefunkens are still my favorite (sorry Bob!) but now I'm worried I won't be able to find any more when mine wear out in 10 years.




That's why you needed start hoarding them


----------



## rb2013

money4me247 said:


> My personal experience has been quite similar. For me, I don't think tube rolling is worth it sonically for the costs you have to spend. Differences are very very subtle. Seems wiser to just upgrade your headphones or amplifier if you are dissatisfied with the sound or looking for different flavors.


 
 I could see some folk not wanting to go the tube route - it does complicate things.  And of course different HP's and cables is another path.  But for me and some others the things the best tubes do is unique.  First ,for me the tonal richness is hard to match in SS - and that can be dialed from full blown euphonic - to neutral - to dry and airy.  The second big one is the sound stage.  To me the best tubes present the players as 3D point sources radiating out in all directions - vs staggered card board cutouts.  My thinking it's the ability of some tubes to dig deeper into the mix to uncover subtle ambient clues.  The mind/ear use those low level clues to recreate a more realistic sound field.  Micro-reflections off the back and side wall for example.  The effect on the right equipment with the best tubes is spooky good.
  


hardwired said:


> I resisted tubes for years because I didn't see how they could be different from solid state. I finally broke down and got a Lyr 2 and a set of tubes that others seemed to like a lot.  To me, the quality of the sound between the tubes and solid state is very similar, but tubes do impart some slight coloration, and that coloration does vary from tube to tube. Ok, no biggie, but if that was the only difference I would have moved on. However, in addition to the slight sound differences the depth or soundstage or air or whatever you want to call it of the music is so much larger with tubes, especially with nice speakers, that it blows my mind every time I listen. Even my wife, who thinks my audio obsession is cute but silly, noticed the difference in about 10 seconds the first time she heard the Lyr. Her words: "Ok, maybe you aren't so dumb".
> 
> So now I have an MJ2 at home and the Lyr 2 at work and I'm a tube believer because of the holographic sound stage. The tunable ability tubes give you is nice too, but the soundstage is what sold me. Just my humble opinion.


 
 Totally agree on the sound stage thing.


----------



## rb2013

hardwired said:


> The advice I took to heart was when someone said "You can start with cheap tubes and work your way up, or you can start at the top where you'll probably end up anyway and save all that money you would have spent on the cheap tubes".
> 
> I got the Telefunken platinum grade from Upscale Audio. Love them.
> 
> Since then I've acquired Philips Miniwatt SQ, '75 Reflektor, and some Amperex white label, and all of them sound great with small differences between them. The Telefunkens are still my favorite (sorry Bob!) but now I'm worried I won't be able to find any more when mine wear out in 10 years.


 

 I love those '60s Teles too!  Wonderful glass.  But you are right - there are still many excellent tube available - and I mean good vintage tubes from the '60's and 70's for $70-$90 a pr.  I know that's not cheap - but relative to a $900 amp - not the most expensive 'tweek' in the world.  For me top tubes have been the biggest bang for the audio buck I have spent.  And I'm an insane tweeker/modder.  They have transformed reasonable priced equipment like the Lyr into astoundingly great gear (it replaced a fully NOS'd out Woo WA6-SE).  My thinking it the MJ2 will just be more of that goodness - like a balanced super Lyr.  At least that's the hope.  It responds as well to tube changes.  What makes these Sch**t products a bit different then some tube hybrid gear - they use a real tube pre-amp stage vs a tube buffered opamp pre (those can sound good too - but may not respond as much to tube changes).


----------



## money4me247

I don't have any problem with going the tube route. I just think tube rolling has weak return for investment. Makes much more sense to just buy a nicer tube amplifier or nicer headphones than spending too much money on different tubes. Will get much larger benefits from my personal experience. cables are a usually an even worse sonic return per price from my personal experience.
  
 and yes, I was tube rolling on the Lyr 2 lol. let's not start that old conversation again. hahah. totally OT
  
 edit: & of course, just imo. ymmv of course & different perspectives are totally chill.


----------



## rb2013

money4me247 said:


> I don't have any problem with going the tube route. I just think tube rolling has weak return for investment. Makes much more sense to just buy a nicer tube amplifier or nicer headphones than spending too much money on different tubes. Will get much larger benefits from my personal experience. cables are a usually an even worse sonic return per price from my personal experience.
> 
> and yes, I was tube rolling on the Lyr 2 lol. let's not start that old conversation again. hahah. totally OT
> 
> edit: & of course, just imo. ymmv of course & different perspectives are totally chill.


 

 I'm with you there - different strokes.
  
 For me I saved a bundle by selling my NOS'd Woo WA6-Se and getting the Lyr with some top tubes.  But the biggest payoff was the sound quality - not that the Woo was bad- in fact really nice.  But after awhile a bit boring - the Lyr on the other hand had excitement.  Way more dynamic - and with a wider choice of tubes then the Woo.  After some rolling - magic!  So better sound with less money - but only with some great tubes.  Happy ending to that story


----------



## MJOLNlR

My Schiit arrived today. The M2 and a set of balanced ETHERS are burning in with the LISST tubes fed by a Modi 2 Uber via a Wyrd. More impressions to follow. 

What is the current consensus for best tubes?


----------



## ThePianoMan

For anyone interested, part of the reason tubes can sound more detailed and have more "ambient cues" even with distortion numbers ranging into the hearing range, is that tubes have a bunch of small rises and dips in Frequency response (tiny little distortions) the human ears FR response actually has a series of rises/dips where the different hairs frequency bands overlap. SS being flat through that doesn't have that same perceptual effect. (This is actually well understand by those who utilize tube microphones) single-ended class A amps can also extremely natural and warm to my ears as well, though that's a whole nother can of worms.


----------



## rb2013

thepianoman said:


> For anyone interested, part of the reason tubes can sound more detailed and have more "ambient cues" even with distortion numbers ranging into the hearing range, is that tubes have a bunch of small rises and dips in Frequency response (tiny little distortions) the human ears FR response actually has a series of rises/dips where the different hairs frequency bands overlap. SS being flat through that doesn't have that same perceptual effect. (This is actually well understand by those who utilize tube microphones) single-ended class A amps can also extremely natural and warm to my ears as well, though that's a whole nother can of worms.


Some good points. Tubes also have higher 2nd harmonic distortion, which is pleasing to the human ear, where as solid state transistors have higher 3rd order, very irritating to the ear. Music is extremely dynamic, when SS hits it's limit it 'clips' with distortion going parabolic. Thermionic devices clip softly, with a gentle rise in THD and IM. The use of feedback in solid state circuits wrecks havoc on phase distortion, small signal tubes stages (preamps, drivers) use little feedback. But I think there a fundemental difference, and it has to do with the very engineering of each kind of signal amplification approach, where as solid state involves a cascading voltage change in descrete steps, thermionic devices amplify and apply modulation in a continuous process, as a steady stream or flow of electons in a vacuum.


----------



## Argo Duck

I don't think there _is_ a consensus yet. Too early.



mjolnlr said:


> My Schiit arrived today. The M2 and a set of balanced ETHERS are burning in with the LISST tubes fed by a Modi 2 Uber via a Wyrd. More impressions to follow.
> 
> What is the current consensus for best tubes?


----------



## ThePianoMan

rb2013 said:


> Some good points. Tubes also have higher 2nd harmonic distortion, which is pleasing to the human ear, where as solid state transistors have higher 3rd order, very irritating to the ear. Music is extremely dynamic, when SS hits it's limit it 'clips' with distortion going parabolic. Thermionic devices clip softly, with a gentle rise in THD and IM. The use of feedback in solid state circuits wrecks havoc on phase distortion, small signal tubes stages (preamps, drivers) use little feedback. But I think there a fundemental difference, and it has to do with the very engineering of each kind of signal amplification approach, where as solid state involves a cascading voltage change in descrete steps, thermionic devices amplify and apply modulation in a continuous process, as a steady stream or flow of electons in a vacuum.




Well put, I was of course just sharing some simplified "sound science" as it were. Though I've personally always been a solid state type when it comes to listening, I'm starting to find some tube gear I like. And I've used tube mics for a while now and love them. : )


----------



## MJOLNlR

The manual states to unplug the Mjolnir before changing tubes. How many here just turn it off by the switch? Is it necessary to unplug it as well?


----------



## MJOLNlR

I have always been in the habit of turning the volume down to minimum and then removing my headphones before turning off an amplifier and leaving the volume at minimum and turning on the amplifier before plugging in my headphones as most amps make a loud pop when the phones are left plugged in. Is this necessary with the Mjolnir, will it cause any issues?


----------



## zabzaf

I have owned the original Mjolnir for about a year now and have really loved its neutral power. I run both LCD-3 w/fazor and HD 800s. I never really enjoyed the 800s with Mojo and almost always gravitated to the Audeze cans.

With Tubenir, I find it's the opposite. The Audeze phones have darkened and thickened (presumably because of the tubes) and the 800s now have a smoothness and more pronounced mid bass.

Anyone else having similar experiences?


----------



## rb2013

thepianoman said:


> Well put, I was of course just sharing some simplified "sound science" as it were. Though I've personally always been a solid state type when it comes to listening, I'm starting to find some tube gear I like. And I've used tube mics for a while now and love them. : )


 

 I've gone from all solid state to all tube - and for a good period of time have settle in between with hybrids.  Power tubes can sound excellent - but to tighten the bass they need lot's of global feedback.  And power tube do not last nearly as long as small signal tubes like the 6922 - so for the power section I really like class A mosfets.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## reddog

Arg I think I am a hopeless Audiophile addict, I just ordered a Mjolnir 2. After this order, I shall retire my cards to a bank deposit box. That is the last time I do shots of chartreuse and Irish whiskey. My uncle is a evil man lol. I have not been that ripped in years lol. I wil write up impressions once the amp arrives this Tuesday.


----------



## Mediahound

mjolnlr said:


> I have always been in the habit of turning the volume down to minimum and then removing my headphones before turning off an amplifier and leaving the volume at minimum and turning on the amplifier before plugging in my headphones as most amps make a loud pop when the phones are left plugged in. Is this necessary with the Mjolnir, will it cause any issues?




 Probably not. I've turned it on and off while wearing headphones and the volume up and haven't noticed barely any click in the headphones or anything. I believe it includes a muting circuit.


----------



## MattTCG

I surprised not to see more impressions and comparisons here already. Yeah, I know it's early. But I must know...
  
 *how does the mjo 2 compare to lyr 2?
  
 *how does mjo 2 pair with the big hitter cans? Ether, Audeze, hd800 etc...


----------



## MJOLNlR

Loving it with my ETHER.


----------



## MattTCG

mjolnlr said:


> Loving it with my ETHER.


 
  
 Um...can you put that in perspective a bit? Compared to what? No disrespect intended.


----------



## reddog

matttcg said:


> I surprised not to see more impressions and comparisons here already. Yeah, I know it's early. But I must know...
> 
> *how does the mjo 2 compare to lyr 2?
> 
> *how does mjo 2 pair with the big hitter cans? Ether, Audeze, hd800 etc...



I will try to answer some of these questions, when the Mjolnir 2' shows up. Although I wish I had a HD 800, or a audeze to play with.


----------



## money4me247

reddog said:


> Arg I think I am a hopeless Audiophile addict, I just ordered a Mjolnir 2. After this order, I shall retire my cards to a bank deposit box. That is the last time I do shots of chartreuse and Irish whiskey. My uncle is a evil man lol. I have not been that ripped in years lol. I wil write up impressions once the amp arrives this Tuesday.


 
 lol!!! Do you now have every single item new & discounted by Schiit? Let me know if you are looking to unload some stuff in the future!
  
 Hope you enjoy your new gear man!!


----------



## reddog

money4me247 said:


> lol!!! Do you now have every single item new & discounted by Schiit? Let me know if you are looking to unload some stuff in the future!
> 
> Hope you enjoy your new gear man!!



Lol I still need the Valhalla 2 and magni to have all the Schiit Audio amps lol. I am such a consumeristic hung over swine.


----------



## money4me247

reddog said:


> Lol I still need the Valhalla 2 and magni to have all the Schiit Audio amps lol. I am such a consumeristic hung over swine.


 
 naww bro, you embody the capitalistic adventurous american spirit!!!
  
 you are advancing lady liberty my man


----------



## Poimandres

Lol, I will say to date the M2 and ETHER is the best setup I have heard. Will likely be my end game setup. 

JRiver>Wyrd>Modi2Uber>Mojilnir 2>ETHER

using pyst usb cables from PC to Wyrd and Wyrd to Modi and blue jeans rca cables from Modi2U to Mojilnir 2.

The only thing that may change will be adding a Gungnir MB. I'm not certain how much improvement I would notice going from Modi2U to Gungnir MB. 

I would like to hear from anyone who has both feeding a M2 to determine if the diminishing returns is worthwhile. The stackability will be a big plus. The Wyrd/Modi stack is stacked upon the M2's front left corner, not exactly aesthetically pleasing.


----------



## MattTCG

poimandres said:


> Lol, I will say to date the M2 and ETHER is the best setup I have heard. Will likely be my end game setup.
> 
> JRiver>Wyrd>Modi2Uber>Mojilnir 2>ETHER
> 
> ...


 
  
 Even going from the original Gungnir to the MB was an appreciable and IMO significant improvement. Subtle detail pops out from a larger sound stage. Bass is super tight and bumpin' nicely. In a word, the upgrade to MB gives a more "analogue" sound.


----------



## Shembot

poimandres said:


> Lol, I will say to date the M2 and ETHER is the best setup I have heard. Will likely be my end game setup.
> 
> JRiver>Wyrd>Modi2Uber>Mojilnir 2>ETHER
> 
> ...


 

 I used my Modi2U with my M2 for a week before my upgraded Gungnir came back from Schiit. While the Modi2U sounds fantastic with Mjolnir 2, the Gungnir MB is a totally different level. You will notice the difference.


----------



## Poimandres

Well there goes a few more c notes. What the hell, at least it will stack nicely under the M2.


----------



## zabzaf

poimandres said:


> Lol, I will say to date the M2 and ETHER is the best setup I have heard. Will likely be my end game setup.
> 
> JRiver>Wyrd>Modi2Uber>Mojilnir 2>ETHER
> 
> ...




In moving from Uberfrost to Gungnir and eventually to Gungnir multibit feeding my newly acquired M2, it's an enormous difference. There's a spacious, wide stereo image created by a fully balanced setup that IMO cannot be created by a SE configuration at these price points. 

I do feel for your wallet...


----------



## RCBinTN

poimandres said:


> Lol, I will say to date the M2 and ETHER is the best setup I have heard. Will likely be my end game setup.
> 
> JRiver>Wyrd>Modi2Uber>Mojilnir 2>ETHER
> 
> ...


 
  
 Quite a bit of improved SQ by going to the GMB, IMO.  And, as detailed by MattTCG above.
 My progression was UberBi - Gungnir - GMB.  Every step was an improvement.


----------



## RCBinTN

Sorry - wrong thread.


----------



## olor1n

reddog said:


> Arg I think I am a hopeless Audiophile addict, I just ordered a Mjolnir 2. After this order, I shall retire my cards to a bank deposit box. That is the last time I do shots of chartreuse and Irish whiskey. My uncle is a evil man lol. I have not been that ripped in years lol. I wil write up impressions once the amp arrives this Tuesday.




Looking forward to reading your impressions of the Mj2 compared to the Ragnarok.

I regret letting my Rok go. Loved its smoothness and amazing transparency. No doubt the Mj2 will be a compromise, it's just a question of how much of a downgrade it will be.

Having just bought a new car and saving up for a house cures the impulse buying urge, otherwise I'd have pulled the trigger on another Rok and the Gumby. Hoping to slum it with my NAD M51 and Mj2 for a bit.


----------



## olor1n

matttcg said:


> I surprised not to see more impressions and comparisons here already. Yeah, I know it's early. But I must know...
> 
> *how does the mjo 2 compare to lyr 2?
> 
> *how does mjo 2 pair with the big hitter cans? Ether, Audeze, hd800 etc...




Very little fanfare surrounding the Mj2. Its reveal was drowned out by the praise over the Gumby and the hype over the Ether C. And people still cling to their negative impressions of mismatched Mjolnir rigs, overlooking the fact that the Mj2 is a different beast and early impressions that the LISST run Mj2 is still quite an improvement over the original.

I don't expect the Mj2 to match it with the megabuck EC, Cavalli amps, or even Schiit's own statement Ragnarok. I do expect it to be in the upper echelons of its price bracket though. There are very few balanced options at this price point if you want glowing glass on top of your stack.


----------



## rb2013

reddog said:


> Arg I think I am a hopeless Audiophile addict, I just ordered a Mjolnir 2. After this order, I shall retire my cards to a bank deposit box. That is the last time I do shots of chartreuse and Irish whiskey. My uncle is a evil man lol. I have not been that ripped in years lol. I wil write up impressions once the amp arrives this Tuesday.


 

 Great - looking forward to your comparison to the Lyr with those sweet '60 Ulm Tele's and the HE1000's.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## reddog

olor1n said:


> Looking forward to reading your impressions of the Mj2 compared to the Ragnarok.
> 
> I regret letting my Rok go. Loved its smoothness and amazing transparency. No doubt the Mj2 will be a compromise, it's just a question of how much of a downgrade it will be.
> 
> Having just bought a new car and saving up for a house cures the impulse buying urge, otherwise I'd have pulled the trigger on another Rok and the Gumby. Hoping to slum it with my NAD M51 and Mj2 for a bit.



Sure I will compare the Ragnarock to the MJ2, with tubes and LISST. I will use NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes.


----------



## MattTCG

reddog said:


> Sure I will compare the Ragnarock to the MJ2, with tubes and LISST. I will use NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes.


 
  
 Can I ask where you got the telefunkens? Upscale Audio?


----------



## audiophilegamer

matttcg said:


> Can I ask where you got the telefunkens? Upscale Audio?


 
 I bought mine from Upscale, could sell you a pair if you would like. I prefer my russian tubes


----------



## MattTCG

^^ I will take this to pm.


----------



## rb2013

audiophilegamer said:


> I bought mine from Upscale, could sell you a pair if you would like. I prefer my russian tubes


 

 +1


----------



## MattTCG

rb2013 said:


> +1


 
  
 Okay, I'll bite which Russians. And what makes them better than the telefunkens (with the mjo2).


----------



## Poimandres

Which telefunkens work with the M2?


----------



## MattTCG

poimandres said:


> Which telefunkens work with the M2?


 
 http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/#ProductReviews


----------



## reddog

matttcg said:


> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/#ProductReviews



Those were the ones I got a year or two ago, but my tubes were cheaper then. I love my Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, and wish I could afford another pair.


----------



## Poimandres

And what amperex Orange tubes work?


----------



## rb2013

matttcg said:


> Okay, I'll bite which Russians. And what makes them better than the telefunkens (with the mjo2).


 

 Well when I say Russians I mean the 6n23p - and that's a pretty vast universe.  Some dim stars, some bright stars - some super novae.
  
 I tested the Upscale Ulm '60 E88CC platinum, some additional Ulm '60's E88CC's and even on e step better the very rare (and super expensive) Ulm '60 E188CC's.
  
 And two very rare Russians beat them all handily in my system.  These are ones being raved about right now on Woo WA2 tube rolling thread.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/393811/woo-wa2-tube-rolling-recommendations/495
  
 My tests were with the Lyr.
  
 So for the details I suggest my 17 6922 tube shootout review
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes
  
 But the bottom line -these rare Russians had the greatest detail coupled with the finest tone I have heard in a 6922 type tube.  And I have rolled over 50 different types.


----------



## rb2013

poimandres said:


> And what amperex Orange tubes work?



6dj8/ECC88, 6922/E88CC


----------



## MattTCG

What's the price point on the Russian tubes and can they still be obtained?


----------



## rb2013

matttcg said:


> What's the price point on the Russian tubes and can they still be obtained?


Well that is an issue, the very best have become extremely rare. But can be had for $150/pr for the '74 Reflektor Silver Shields SWGP in mtached and tested prs. The '75's ( my 'Holy Grail' hence I call them HG's) are harder to find and more expensive $200+/pr. But still cheaper then other legendary 6922's like the '60's Ulm Teles $300+/pr, Siemens early '60s CCa's $400/pr, Amperex 6922 PW's $600/pr.

The guys on the Woo2 tube rolling thread are comparing these top Russians to their stable of favorites, like the CCa's, and are being blown away.


----------



## reddog

I just got a pair of NOS Ediswan tubes to try in the MJ2, but the main audophile tubes for the MJ2, will be my NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes. However for everyday listening, I will use one of my current production tubes like the Genalex Gold Lions of the Telefunken TK's. Why waist good NOS tubes for a television show. I will be looking at Bobs list of godly NOS tubes for my next purchase.


----------



## reddog

rb2013 said:


> Well that is an issue, the very best have become extremely rare. But can be had for $150/pr for the '74 Reflektor Silver Shields SWGP in mtached and tested prs. The '75's ( my 'Holy Grail' hence I call them HG's) are harder to find and more expensive $200+/pr. But still cheaper then other legendary 6922's like the '60's Ulm Teles $300+/pr, Siemens early '60s CCa's $400/pr, Amperex 6922 PW's $600/pr.
> 
> The guys on the Woo2 tube rolling thread are comparing these top Russians to their stable of favorites, like the CCa's, and are being blown away.



That is good to know, and sad to see the prices rise, I wish people were not so greedy, but such is life. Its good one can get the holy grails, I might have to start saving up.


----------



## rb2013

reddog said:


> That is good to know, and sad to see the prices rise, I wish people were not so greedy, but such is life. Its good one can get the holy grails, I might have to start saving up.



It's just a matter of supply, there are just so many of these very specific tubes. Look at how much Upscale has raised the price of their Ulm '60's Teles. In just a year. But the prices wouldn't be going up if folks were dissappointed in the sound. The opposite the word of mouth is there. Unlike amps, hp's, cables, etc which depreciate in time, these have appreciated considerably. There will always be folks who will pay for the best, and money is no object.

Without collectors like us, how many of these great tubes would be at the bottom if scrap heaps.

But not to dissuade the folks just starting out with tube gear, even an excellent pr of Amperex OG's, Tesla E88CC's or Voskhod 6n23p '75s will be a major stepup over the stock tubes. And they're all available under $90/pr.


----------



## H-town-ear

Just pulled the string on a MJ2, thank you all for the great info and looking forward to trying it out with my Platinum Telefunkin E88CC's.  Love these tubes in my Lyr 2 with GMB.  Might have to turn the Lyr into solid state with LYSST.
  
 Anyone have Amperex  PQ 6922 Orange in MJ2, have a set coming?


----------



## Hardwired

I tried all my tubes in the MJ2, including some Amperex, and they all provide the same sound in the MJ2 that they do in the Lyr 2. I'm beginning to think of the Mjolnir like a balanced Lyr because they both respond to tube changes so similarly. I also use the LISST in the Lyr at work and that works great.


----------



## H-town-ear

Good to know that the same level of change can be had as with Lyr 2.  This will be my first balanced amp and really looking forward to hearing the setup with LCD-2f.


----------



## jjacq

@reddog I'm not sure if I'm following the thread properly but you bought a Mjolnir 2? How does it compare to your Ragnarok? Actually how does the Mjolnir 2 / Gungnir stack fare against the Ragnarok / Yggdrasil?


----------



## money4me247

Anyone here with any insights of the Mjolnir 2 vs Auralic Taurus MKII?? thanks


----------



## reddog

jjacq said:


> @reddog
> I'm not sure if I'm following the thread properly but you bought a Mjolnir 2? How does it compare to your Ragnarok? Actually how does the Mjolnir 2 / Gungnir stack fare against the Ragnarok / Yggdrasil?



I have ordered the Mjolnir 2 but it will not arrive till tomorrow. I will compare it to the Ragnarok,. I will compare the Gungnir Multibit/ MJ2 to the Yggy/ Rag. I will some impressions on these two combos, then I will write up proper review comparing and contrasting these Schiit combos.


----------



## jjacq

reddog said:


> I have ordered the Mjolnir 2 but it will not arrive till tomorrow. I will compare it to the Ragnarok,. I will compare the Gungnir Multibit/ MJ2 to the Yggy/ Rag. I will some impressions on these two combos, then I will write up proper review comparing and contrasting these Schiit combos.


 
 I'm so excited for you!! I'm hoping that it's not that far of a difference though and I will get the cheaper offering. Hopefully, lol.


----------



## reddog

jjacq said:


> I'm so excited for you!! I'm hoping that it's not that far of a difference though and I will get the cheaper offering. Hopefully, lol.



The MJ2 8 watts of balanced tube goodness, is what finally made me throttle my poor wallet.


----------



## jjacq

reddog said:


> The MJ2 8 watts of balanced tube goodness, is what finally made me throttle my poor wallet.


 
  
 Yeah looking forward to how the Ether plays with the Mjolnir 2.


----------



## MattTCG

jjacq said:


> Yeah looking forward to how the Ether plays with the Mjolnir 2.


 
 +1


----------



## LarsP

+2 
  
 I'm especially interested in how the Ether C is going to perform with the Mjolnir/GungnirMB-combo.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Dan Clark says Ether/Mjo2 is good when tubes are employed.


----------



## jjacq

What about the LCD-X? Is the X + Mjolnir 2 Tubes a bad mix? Also just making sure, I can use the Mjolnir 2 with IEMs too right?


----------



## reddog

matttcg said:


> ^^ Dan Clark says Ether/Mjo2 is good when tubes are employed.



Sweet to hear, I plan to use my NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes as well as my NOS Ediswan tubes. I will only use my LISST tubes for burning in headphones. I will burn in the amp for 100 hours, then start listening critically. I am interested in mow the the MJ2 drives the ETHER as well as the HE1K, in balanced XLR. I still need to get a custom Norne cable for the HE1K.


----------



## tuxbass

Fedex and it's annoying stubbornness to stick to the estimated delivery date, Grrrr.
 My MJ2 is stuck in a location ~50 miles from me for the last 3 days now. Torture  .... Still one more day to wait.


----------



## Mediahound

tuxbass said:


> Fedex and it's annoying stubbornness to stick to the estimated delivery date, Grrrr.
> My MJ2 is stuck in a location ~50 miles from me for the last 3 days now. Torture  .... Still one more day to wait.


 

 FedEx always hold to their quoted delivery date even if the shipment gets to the local hub earlier. UPS however will sometimes deliver early if they happen to get the shipment to the local hub early and they are able to.


----------



## leafs

mediahound said:


> FedEx always hold to their quoted delivery date even if the shipment gets to the local hub earlier.


 
 That's my experience too.


----------



## tuxbass

@Mediahound I see you've your A5 hooked up to MJ2. I plan on doing the same when I get mine.
 Are you using the unbalanced preamp out for this ?
 What is your impression on SQ ?


----------



## Mediahound

tuxbass said:


> @Mediahound
> I see you've your A5 hooked up to MJ2. I plan on doing the same when I get mine.
> Are you using the unbalanced preamp out for this ?
> What is your impression on SQ ?




I am. It sounds surprisingly good.

I haven't tried hooking them up directly to the dac RCA outs yet but I could do that and then control the volume on the speaker volume knob, as another option.


----------



## tuxbass

mediahound said:


> I am. It sounds surprisingly good.
> 
> I haven't tried hooking them up directly to the dac RCA outs yet but I could do that and then control the volume on the speaker volume knob, as another option.


 
 Cool thanks.
 You already the "final" setup I would like to get to  ... I'm still missing the Wyrd and GMB in my chain. I may bother you with questions on my way to getting there.


----------



## money4me247

anyone with this combo running hifiman headphones (maybe even the he-1k?) =P


----------



## Arnotts

I'm very interested in the LCD-X, HD800 or HD650 impressions from the Mojo2 .
  
 Considering switching out my Liquid Carbon order for the Mjolnir 2.


----------



## Poimandres

I did that recently even before the announcement of the latest delay. I don't regret it.


----------



## mangler

poimandres said:


> I did that recently even before the announcement of the latest delay. I don't regret it.



Same here. I was on the Carbon list, but got off a month or so ago. I'm sure the carbon is great, but I've been waiting for this amp ever since Jason started talking about it a few years ago, although at the time it was supposed to be a pick-your-flavor Ragnarok. It's got everything I could want so Im happy as can be


----------



## reddog

My Mjolnir 2 has arrived, I am getting ready to unpack it.


----------



## Tuco1965

Congrats! You must be using socket savers.


----------



## reddog

tuco1965 said:


> Congrats! You must be using socket savers.



Yes I am using socket savers for the first time.


----------



## Tuco1965

Are you just going to use glass, or are you going to try LISST also?


----------



## rb2013

reddog said:


> My Mjolnir 2 has arrived, I am getting ready to unpack it.


 

 She's a beaut!


----------



## reddog

The MJ2 and Gumby sound great togeather. I am using my MJ2, with my NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes to drive my HE1K and its so beautiful. The bass is so powerful, yet textured, and refined, without leaking or mudding up the mids. The mids have that tube like lushness and smoothness, yet the mids never loose there resolving textured detail,. The highs are spot on perfect, that never fatigues the listner. And whenever one combines the great bass, midds and high, the large soundstage become fantastically three-dimensional holographic that naturally portrays the music. I highly recommend this system to anyone, especially if you are on a budget. The HE1K seem to like 8 watts of balanced tube goodness.


----------



## reddog

rb2013 said:


> She's a beaut!



Thanks the MJ2 has a elegant, neo spartan look to it, no fluff just functionality. I think the socket savers add to the simple elegance. Thanks to all who have suggested them in the past.


----------



## Poimandres

Where did you pick up the socket savers?


----------



## reddog

poimandres said:


> Where did you pick up the socket savers?



From tubemongers, First time using them, seem very nice, good quality.


----------



## leafs

@reddog, congrats to your new added audio system. Thanks for the early impression with HE1K. How is the MJ2 + GMB with ETHER?
  
 Btw, do you have Wyrd to your audio chain?


----------



## reddog

leafs said:


> @reddog
> , congrats to your new added audio system. Thanks for the early impression with HE1K. How is the MJ2 + GMB with ETHER?
> 
> Btw, do you have Wyrd to your audio chain?



I will hook the.ETHER'S up later tonight. And write up my impressions.


----------



## MattTCG

reddog said:


> I will hook the.ETHER'S up later tonight. And write up my impressions.


 
 Looking forward to see what you think  of the pairing. Can you tell me where you are on the mjo2 pot to get to a medium volume level?


----------



## tuxbass

reddog said:


> From tubemongers, First time using them, seem very nice, good quality.


 
 @reddog Congrats ! (hoping mine shows up tomorrow )
 Would you mind linking the socket savers that you are using ? (I don't want to buy something that doesn't fit)


----------



## reddog

The ETHER sounds fantastic going from Tidal >MacBook Pro>Gungnir MultibitMjolnir 2. I am uusinga Tidal playlist for MrSpeaker's ETHER. I am pleasantly surprised how great the MJ2, with NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes makes the ETHER's sing. The NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes add a tad more impactfull bass, as well as more resolving texture. The micro texture makes the bass ever so real/ natural. The mids are spectacular, they are so smooth and lush, yet the mids are textured and detailed, completely natural and transparent to the artist true intent. The highs are spot on perfect, the micro detail is not bright just ever revealing to the artist. Finally the impactfull, ever controlled bass, smooth and textured mids and great highs allows for a great soundstage, that is large and three-dimensionally holographic. The MJ2 and the GMB have a great synergy that make the ETHER sound ever so nice.
I plan to hook the MJ2 to the Yggy and see how that sounds later on. I have not used the LISST tubes yet.
One the low gain setting, I listen on the 9 a clock volume setting. If I use the maximum gain setting then I keep the volume at 7 to 8 a clock setting. I have listened at a louder setting but rarely
I have mutant hearing and need not abuse it to hear it well.


----------



## Mediahound

So were having a bit of a heat wave here in the SF Bay Area this week. Last night after work, I settled in to a listening session with my MJ2. No A/C in the condo and like 90 degrees in the room.   After about one album, I had to turn it off. This thing sure generates some heat.
  
 This is not really a criticism, it's worth it. And it will actually be welcomed in the winter. Between my big LCD computer monitor, which also generates a fair amount of heat, and the MJ2, I may not even have to use a heater in the room in the winter.


----------



## leafs

mediahound said:


> So were having a bit of a heat wave here in the SF Bay Area this week. Last night after work, I settled in to a listening session with my MJ2. No A/C in the condo and like 90 degrees in the room.   After about one album, I had to turn it off. This thing sure generates some heat.


 
 Thanks for sharing this. This is useful to note for me. My listening room has no a/c. Just standing fan.


----------



## Mediahound

So, just a cool tidbit,  many folks may not realize that the Mjolnir 2 is pretty much the only balanced hybrid tube amp in the world. Pretty cool eh?
  
 There may be another one but it would be highly esoteric or hand built by someone in their basement or something.


----------



## Arnotts

mediahound said:


> So, just a cool tidbit,  many folks may not realize that the Mjolnir 2 is pretty much the only balanced hybrid tube amp in the world. Pretty cool eh?
> 
> There may be another one but it would be highly esoteric or hand built by someone in their basement or something.


 

 This is actually exactly why I, after much consideration, cancelled my Liquid Carbon order and ordered the Mjolnir 2 instead.
  
 I need a balanced, highly resolving and powerful amp that can drive LCD-X's, HD800's and HD650's properly. I don't doubt that the LC would perform very well for these headphones, but the Mjolnir 2 looks much more "qualified".


----------



## tuxbass

Some tube shots for your viewing pleasure:


----------



## Trastan

Right now I only have the stock tubes, LISST, and some Golden Lions. After some extended listening with each, I was surprised to find that I prefer the stock tubes to a significant degree. They do an excellent job of marrying the analytical LISST sound (which was a bit too close to the signature of the Asgard 2 for my taste) with the smoother, more realistic Golden Lions. Listening to them gives me a smile every time, and that's "just" with the Bifrost Uber USB2. While I still have some sibilants in the especially problematic songs, the sound is *finally* closing on what I'd been hoping to find for years. 
  
 Now I'm looking forward to switching out the Bifrost with the Gungnir Multibit and calling it good. Anything beyond that would be additional headphones (looking at you, Audeze!). 
  
 I can't recommend the Mjolnir 2 highly enough.


----------



## Arnotts

trastan said:


> Right now I only have the stock tubes, LISST, and some Golden Lions. After some extended listening with each, I was surprised to find that I prefer the stock tubes to a significant degree. They do an excellent job of marrying the analytical LISST sound (which was a bit too close to the signature of the Asgard 2 for my taste) with the smoother, more realistic Golden Lions. Listening to them gives me a smile every time, and that's "just" with the Bifrost Uber USB2. While I still have some sibilants in the especially problematic songs, the sound is *finally* closing on what I'd been hoping to find for years.
> 
> Now I'm looking forward to switching out the Bifrost with the Gungnir Multibit and calling it good. Anything beyond that would be additional headphones (looking at you, Audeze!).
> 
> I can't recommend the Mjolnir 2 highly enough.


 

 Sounds good! Great to see you enjoying the sound.
  
 So you preferred the sound of the stock 6BZ7's over the gold lions? Why's that?


----------



## RazrLeaf

Anyone with a MJ2 and HD650 care to test it in both SE and balanced modes? I'm curious to know how/if things change going though the summer, since circlotron is inherently balanced.
  
 I ask for the HD650 pairing because those are what I have, but I'm open to opinions of anyone with headphones that can switch between SE and balanced.


----------



## AustinValentine

razrleaf said:


> Anyone with a MJ2 and HD650 care to test it in both SE and balanced modes? I'm curious to know how/if things change going though the summer, since circlotron is inherently balanced.
> 
> I ask for the HD650 pairing because those are what I have, but I'm open to opinions of anyone with headphones that can switch between SE and balanced.




All you need is a balanced cable to make an HD650 balanced (or, even a stock cable reterminated for 4 pin XLR). 

I'd expect the single ended output on the Mojo2 to be significantly worse than the balanced, as it is on the Rag.


----------



## Trastan

arnotts said:


> Sounds good! Great to see you enjoying the sound.
> 
> So you preferred the sound of the stock 6BZ7's over the gold lions? Why's that?


 
 The stock tubes seem to be a great middle ground between the Gold Lions and the LISST, and it works really well for me (at least with regards to my Fostex TH-900). I'm brand new to tubes, and I have no doubt that there are many better, but I'm so happy with their sound (and the price/ease of acquiring more) that I'm content to call these my all-purpose tubes. 
  


austinvalentine said:


> All you need is a balanced cable to make an HD650 balanced (or, even a stock cable reterminated for 4 pin XLR).
> 
> I'd expect the single ended output on the Mojo2 to be significantly worse than the balanced, as it is on the Rag.


 
 Significantly worse? I know it's not as powerful (2 watts versus 8) but I'm interested to know if you view it as worse sounding. It was my understanding that they would both sound very close.


----------



## olor1n

The single ended output on Schiit components are compromised compared to balanced. I heard this when I owned the Gungnir and then the Ragnarok. I expect it to be the case for the Mj2. Single ended is there as a matter of convenience and not representative of thre component's full potential.


----------



## Trastan

olor1n said:


> The single ended output on Schiit components are compromised compared to balanced. I heard this when I owned the Gungnir and then the Ragnarok. I expect it to be the case for the Mj2. Single ended is there as a matter of convenience and not representative of thre component's full potential.


 
 Compromised, you say? Huh. Well... I guess that's a good thing, if I'm already happy having only heard the single-ended output.
  
 Now I'm open to suggestions: should I...
  
 - Have someone mod my Fostex cable to be balanced?
 - Leave it as-is and continue using the single-ended out of the Mjolnir 2 as my end-game setup?
 - Or sell the TH-900 and buy a pair of LCD-3s?


----------



## JK-47

razrleaf said:


> Anyone with a MJ2 and HD650 care to test it in both SE and balanced modes? I'm curious to know how/if things change going though the summer, since circlotron is inherently balanced.
> 
> I ask for the HD650 pairing because those are what I have, but I'm open to opinions of anyone with headphones that can switch between SE and balanced.




I have the MJ2 and HD650 with both cables. The balanced is better, period.

Tried with the LISST and Bugle Boy 6DJ8's. I also tried my LCD2.2f's (both balanced and SE) and again balanced takes the prize. If you're not running balanced headphones out of the MJ2, I think you're throwing away money.


----------



## MattTCG

jk-47 said:


> I have the MJ2 and HD650 with both cables. The balanced is better, period.
> 
> Tried with the LISST and Bugle Boy 6DJ8's. I also tried my LCD2.2f's (both balanced and SE) and again balanced takes the prize. If you're not running balanced headphones out of the MJ2, I think you're throwing away money.


 
  
 That's a pretty strong statement.


----------



## rb2013

arnotts said:


> This is actually exactly why I, after much consideration, cancelled my Liquid Carbon order and ordered the Mjolnir 2 instead.
> 
> I need a balanced, highly resolving and powerful amp that can drive LCD-X's, HD800's and HD650's properly. I don't doubt that the LC would perform very well for these headphones, but the Mjolnir 2 looks much more "qualified".


 
 Cavalli Liquid Glass
  
 http://www.cavalliaudio.com/index.php?p=product_details&pId=1


----------



## JK-47

quote name="MattTCG" url="/t/778250/schiit-mjolnir-2-listening-impressions/255#post_11908551"]
That's a pretty strong statement. 
[/quote]

Not really. It's a fact, that Jason from Schiit also backs up.


----------



## rb2013

mediahound said:


> So, just a cool tidbit,  many folks may not realize that the Mjolnir 2 is pretty much the only balanced hybrid tube amp in the world. Pretty cool eh?
> 
> There may be another one but it would be highly esoteric or hand built by someone in their basement or something.


 
 Cavalli Liquid Glass
  http://www.cavalliaudio.com/index.php?p=product_details&pId=1


----------



## RCBinTN

arnotts said:


> This is actually exactly why I, after much consideration, cancelled my Liquid Carbon order and ordered the Mjolnir 2 instead.
> 
> I need a balanced, highly resolving and powerful amp that can drive LCD-X's, HD800's and HD650's properly. I don't doubt that the LC would perform very well for these headphones, but the Mjolnir 2 looks much more "qualified".


 
  
 Will be interested in your experience with the Mojo2 and HD800.


----------



## RCBinTN

trastan said:


> Compromised, you say? Huh. Well... I guess that's a good thing, if I'm already happy having only heard the single-ended output.
> 
> Now I'm open to suggestions: should I...
> 
> ...


 
  
 I moved all my rigs and cans to balanced.  IMO the sound is superior.  Never looking back to SE.  YMMV.


----------



## Poimandres

I have yet to listen to the MJ2 through SE however the ETHERS balanced fed by the MJ2 (LISST) is sublime, best setup I have heard to date.  I have been burning in the Wyrd>Modi 2 Uber>Mojilnir 2 straight for 6 days straight. 
  
 I have some '74 Reflektors incoming and are looking forward to giving them a listen.  Thanks Rob! 
  
 One of these days I will order the Gungnir MB and determine if it is an upgrade to the M2U.  However as I said this is the best setup I have heard period.  I have a new appreciation for music that I never wanted to listen to before, it's that engaging.


----------



## Shembot

rcbintn said:


> Will be interested in your experience with the Mojo2 and HD800.




I'm borrowing an HD800 for the weekend and will report my findings.


----------



## zabzaf

rcbintn said:


> Will be interested in your experience with the Mojo2 and HD800.




I've been running the 800s with M2 and GMB and the results are very nice. With M1, the 800s were in he harsh side and couldn't be tolerated for long listening sessions because of the hot treble. Also, the mid bass is is much more present in the M2. 

I was about to retire the old dogs until M2 came around. The pair actually have good synergy.


----------



## zive

Just took delivery of an MJ2 w/ LISST + stock tubes this afternoon. Currently paired with Gumby as the balanced in and Mani as the SE input. I've noticed that nobody has posted anything specifically about vinyl as a source with the MJ2 yet on this thread. I can confirm that the Mani + MJ2 combo sounds stunning: warm and holographic even with such limited burn-in, while my previous setup using A2 + Mani sounded harsh, sibilant, and analytical. I had been contemplating upgrading the Ortophon 2MR on my Debut Carbon to get more detail off my vinyl, but hearing my records through the MJ2 (using stock tubes) has me thinking I'll wait. I'm hearing nuanced background details pop out that I've never noticed when using the Asgard 2. Very happy with the performance and can't wait to hear the set-up at its full potential when my LCD-3's arrive and I'll be able to take advantage of the balanced functionality. Also looking forward to evaluating the LISST sound, but for now the stock tubes aren't going anywhere.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## tuxbass

trastan said:


> Compromised, you say? Huh. Well... I guess that's a good thing, if I'm already happy having only heard the single-ended output.
> 
> Now I'm open to suggestions: should I...
> 
> ...


 
 I've to agree with @olor1n and @JK-47
 I tried MJ2 with my LCD-3 both balanced and unbalanced. The balanced setup sounds significantly better (even with the very limited burn-in on my tubes).
  
 I've not heard Fostex TH-900, but my LCD-3 sure as hell sounds amazing with balanced cables


----------



## JK-47

zive said:


> Just took delivery of an MJ2 w/ LISST + stock tubes this afternoon. Currently paired with Gumby as the balanced in and Mani as the SE input. I've noticed that nobody has posted anything specifically about vinyl as a source with the MJ2 yet on this thread. I can confirm that the Mani + MJ2 combo sounds stunning: warm and holographic even with such limited burn-in, while my previous setup using A2 + Mani sounded harsh, sibilant, and analytical. I had been contemplating upgrading the Ortophon 2MR on my Debut Carbon to get more detail off my vinyl, but hearing my records through the MJ2 (using stock tubes) has me thinking I'll wait. I'm hearing nuanced background details pop out that I've never noticed when using the Asgard 2. Very happy with the performance and can't wait to hear the set-up at its full potential when my LCD-3's arrive and I'll be able to take advantage of the balanced functionality. Also looking forward to evaluating the LISST sound, but for now the stock tubes aren't going anywhere.
> 
> Cheers!


 
 Are you running the stock Ortofon 2mRed? I changed the stylus on my Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC to the Ortofon Blue, and noticed a considerable difference... Much less inner groove distortion, smoother mids and hi's (I found the Red almost harsh in the treble). Got the Blue Stylus only, as it plugs direct into the Red cartridge. $150 brand new from Germany.


----------



## zive

Yes, slightly ashamed to say that I'm still spinning with the stock cartridge a year after buying my Debut Carbon. It's funny that you mentioned the Blue stylus because I was split between going that route or just replacing the whole cartridge for a Denon DL-110. Have you had the chance to hear the black stylus? Wondering if it's not just worth it to save a few more weeks and go all the way if I'm going to stick with my current cartridge.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## JK-47

zive said:


> Yes, slightly ashamed to say that I'm still spinning with the stock cartridge a year after buying my Debut Carbon. It's funny that you mentioned the Blue stylus because I was split between going that route or just replacing the whole cartridge for a Denon DL-110. Have you had the chance to hear the black stylus? Wondering if it's not just worth it to save a few more weeks and go all the way if I'm going to stick with my current cartridge.
> 
> Thanks!


 

 The Black and Bronze Ortofon stylus will plug directly into the Red cartridge, but you will not get the added benefit of the higher grade cartridge body that come with the Black and Bronze... If you planned on the Black, you would probably better off buying the complete cartridge and stylus.
  
 I haven't heard the black stylus.
  
 I found the best deals on Ortofon cartridges and stylus on ebay from a fellow in Germany.


----------



## jjacq

I've heard of people adding a Wyrd onto their GMB/Mj2 stack and I wonder as to what it actually does. Let's say I don't really have any noticeable USB issues with my setup, would I still benefit adding it to the chain?

 I don't know, it seems like a given to buy a Wyrd when it comes to their schiit stack, especially the GMB/Mj2 along with the Rag/Ygg.


----------



## RazrLeaf

olor1n said:


> The single ended output on Schiit components are compromised compared to balanced. I heard this when I owned the Gungnir and then the Ragnarok. I expect it to be the case for the Mj2. Single ended is there as a matter of convenience and not representative of thre component's full potential.


 


jk-47 said:


> I have the MJ2 and HD650 with both cables. The balanced is better, period.
> 
> Tried with the LISST and Bugle Boy 6DJ8's. I also tried my LCD2.2f's (both balanced and SE) and again balanced takes the prize. If you're not running balanced headphones out of the MJ2, I think you're throwing away money.


 
 Many thank for the thoughts. Sounds like the $30 it costs to convert my HD 650s to balanced would be justified (if I got a MJ2). Now all I have to decide is L2 or MJ2...and I know there are people here that have both MJ2 and L2, and said they would provide their thoughts (looking at you, reddog =P). L2 vs. MJ2 SE and L2 vs. MJ2 Balanced.


----------



## rb2013

zive said:


> Yes, slightly ashamed to say that I'm still spinning with the stock cartridge a year after buying my Debut Carbon. It's funny that you mentioned the Blue stylus because I was split between going that route or just replacing the whole cartridge for a Denon DL-110. Have you had the chance to hear the black stylus? Wondering if it's not just worth it to save a few more weeks and go all the way if I'm going to stick with my current cartridge.
> 
> Thanks!


 

 I have the 2M Black - it's awesome!  Compares vary favorably to the big buck MC I've had like the Benz Ebony and Dyna XV1-S.  Not cheap though.
  
 One note the higher end 2M's need proper VTA adjustment  - hopefully your arm has it.  If not set right you won;t get the bass fully fleshed out.


----------



## Trastan

Thanks to everyone for the replies re: balanced vs single-ended. I've updated my endgame setup plans to Gungnir Multibit > Mjolnir 2 > LCD-3. I'll be keeping the Fostex single-ended for general use around the house, especially in the home theater (they do an awesome job with movies and games). Though the LCD-3 will set me back a bit, I have no doubt that they'll be worth the cost. I'm looking forward to the peace of mind knowing that I have a proper endgame setup without weak links, and enjoying it for decades to come.


----------



## ToTo Man

Sorry for the silly question, but is it possible to connect Gumby to Mjo2 using balanced and then Mjo2 to my main hifi power amp using single ended, or does it need to be either balanced or single ended all the way along the chain?


----------



## Mediahound

toto man said:


> Sorry for the silly question, but is it possible to connect Gumby to Mjo2 using balanced and then Mjo2 to my main hifi power amp using single ended, or does it need to be either balanced or single ended all the way along the chain?




Yep, that works fine. I do exactly this to connect to my powered desktop speakers.


----------



## ToTo Man

mediahound said:


> Yep, that works fine. I do exactly this to connect to my powered desktop speakers.


 
 Thanks for the quickest reply ever!


----------



## tuxbass

Last night I was listening to the "Ultimate Demonstration Disc" from Chesky Records. And I've to tell you I was completely blown away by the track "*Correnteza"  *(the first minute in particular). If you've access to this album, make sure you listen to it 
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Demonstration-Disc-Critical-Listening/dp/B00002MXUH
  
 Edit: Added link to the album


----------



## ToTo Man

Is it normal for the Mjo2 to hum for a couple of minutes when first switched on?  The hum isn't constant, it appears for a few seconds then goes away, then it repeats.


----------



## Shembot

toto man said:


> Is it normal for the Mjo2 to hum for a couple of minutes when first switched on?  The hum isn't constant, it appears for a few seconds then goes away, then it repeats.


 

 I've heard this, too.


----------



## ziis

Just made a big round of upgrades.
  
 From HD600+Magni+Modi
 to HD800+M2+GMB+Telefunken 7DJ8
  
 The result is.... I'm underwhelmed. I seem to be bothered a lot by HD800's treble rendering, I guess it's what peopled called "too bright". I hate to admit, but I really prefer my old school humble 600 setup more.


----------



## Mediahound

ziis said:


> Just made a big round of upgrades.
> 
> From HD600+Magni+Modi
> to HD800+M2+MBP+Telefunken 7DJ8
> ...




HD800's need to be modded and cables upgraded and balanced to sound halfway decent in my experience.


----------



## ziis

mediahound said:


> HD800's need to be modded and cables upgraded and balanced to sound halfway decent in my experience.


 
 I did upgrade the cable with Senn's own balanced CH800S


----------



## ToTo Man

I'm comparing [Gumby -> single ended -> Mjol2] and [Gumby -> balanced -> Mjol2], and after compensating for the difference in output levels, balanced does sound better IMO.  But I'm struggling to describe exactly what it is that is better about the sound with balanced.  Would it be right to describe the single ended sound as slightly more constrained, veiled and less dynamic, and the balanced sound as more projecting, floaty and breathable, particularly in the mid frequencies?


----------



## jjacq

Finally ordered my Mjolnir 2 to pair with my LCD-X and Ether. I only have the stock tubes + the LISST though. I was wondering if you guys have reached a consensus on the tubes that are great with the Mjolnir 2.


----------



## mangler

ziis said:


> Just made a big round of upgrades.
> 
> From HD600+Magni+Modi
> to HD800+M2+MBP+Telefunken 7DJ8
> ...




If M2 is like Lyr2, 7DJ8 tubes aren't ideal. At least that's the word I got from Schiit support when I asked about using the 7DJ8 in the Lyr2


----------



## hifimiami

I have a matched pair of 1970 French Mazda EC88 (6922) in the for sale (cables etc) they sounded great in my Lyr.


----------



## reddog

Hi all my Ediswan CV2492 have arrived and I have plugged them in for over 35 hours now. The Ediswan have good bass with lots of impact. The mids are lush and sweet. The highs are nice and do not fatigue the ears.. The Ediswan have that good tube like lushness and good bass. They are like a lusher gold lions with out the realistic, textured detail. My led Zepplin's and uriah heep sounds great. I will use these tubes for video games and television. But I will burn in the tubes and amp for another 200 hours and see how the sound signature cures and changes.


----------



## olor1n

@reddog

Is the performance gap between the two amps wide enough that you miss the Ragnarok's refinement when listening to the Mj2? Or is it only evident when switching back to the Rok, and the Mj2 in isolation is good enough to not detract from the experience?

I.E. - having lived with the Ragnarok, could you slum it with just the Mj2 if you had to?


----------



## reddog

I did not think I would miss the rag/ yggy like I did. But when I plugged my Mac Book Pro into the yggy/ rag I was bloody shocked how good the sound signature sounded. The rag has such resolving, textured detail and naturalness to its sound signature than does MJ2 and gumby. I love how the gumby and MJ2 sound but the rag anf Yggy is just superior than the other. However I have yet to hook the MJ2 to the Yggy, and will do that this weekend. My fingers are too numb to safely change out amps.


----------



## AustinValentine

ziis said:


> The result is.... I'm underwhelmed. I seem to be bothered a lot by HD800's treble rendering, I guess it's what peopled called "too bright". I hate to admit, but I really prefer my old school humble 600 setup more.


 


mediahound said:


> HD800's need to be modded and cables upgraded and balanced to sound halfway decent in my experience.


 
  
 7DJ8 Telefunkens add clarity and air but not weight and body (a bit of the opposite of what you're looking for with the HD800's IMO.)  You might want to consider using a couple of Amperex Orange Globes in their place.
  
 Modding the HD800s is more or less mandatory because of the 6-6.5k chamber reflection - it's not so much a tonal brightness as part of the inherent character of the headphone that must be modded away. There are a number of resources across the web for doing this, but one you might want to check out is Tyll's "DIY Modification for the Sennheiser HD800" article here over at InnerFidelity. It gives a good explanation of what's going on with the HD800 and gives an solid starter mod for fixing the issue that requires little more than cheap craft store materials. 
  
 Mod them, make some tube changes, and then give it a chance. It's entirely possible that it *might* not grow on you at all. But, if it does, you'll have a very solid setup.


----------



## learningcurve

@Trastan
 Do you run into any noise floor issues with your TH900?  Any hiss or buzz when there is no music playing?
  
 I have a TH900 (re-cabled with balanced XLR) and Mjolnir1, but could not resolve the issue of getting a very slight buzz when there is no music playing. I suspected ground loop type issues and did everything (including powering the Mjolnir1 through an isolation transformer) but could not resolve it. I am continuing to greatly enjoy Mjolnir1 with my LCD 2.2 (that has no buzz/hiss given much lower sensitivity), and instead use the TH900 with Woo Audio WA7 (that gives me what feels like a completely black background).
  
 I am hoping that upgrading my Mjolnir1 to Mjolnir2 will solve the above issue, so that I can use my TH900 without any buzz/hiss. 
  
 Is it true that Mjolnir2 is much quieter than Mjolnir1?


----------



## Arnotts

ziis said:


> Just made a big round of upgrades.
> 
> From HD600+Magni+Modi
> to HD800+M2+MBP+Telefunken 7DJ8
> ...


 
 Don't know what the MBP is, but the HD800's do need to be EQ'd, or, ideally, modded. Anyone that tells you that the HD800's aren't bright (like a lot of people in the HD800 thread seem to think) is just objectively incorrect. The sound of stock HD800's is completely unengaging and clinical, imo. You could pair it with a warm DAC and a warm amp, but then you've taken away most of the HD800's strengths and just made them sound like weak, pseudo-Audeze headphones.
  
 If you don't want to do any mods to your HD800's, get your HD600's back. Or get a pair of HD650's and do the coin mod and the foam removal mod. Or just get some LCD-2's if you want that sound (I love both presentations).


----------



## Trastan

learningcurve said:


> @Trastan
> Do you run into any noise floor issues with your TH900?  Any hiss or buzz when there is no music playing?
> 
> I have a TH900 (re-cabled with balanced XLR) and Mjolnir1, but could not resolve the issue of getting a very slight buzz when there is no music playing. I suspected ground loop type issues and did everything (including powering the Mjolnir1 through an isolation transformer) but could not resolve it. I am continuing to greatly enjoy Mjolnir1 with my LCD 2.2 (that has no buzz/hiss given much lower sensitivity), and instead use the TH900 with Woo Audio WA7 (that gives me what feels like a completely black background).
> ...


 
 No worries there. On the low power setting from the single-ended output (which is still tons of power on the TH-900s), it's dead silent even at max volume. In the high-power mode, I eventually hear a very quiet hum/hiss at higher volume levels, but my head would explode if I dared play music at that level. 
  
 As far as the single-ended output goes, this amp is completely silent with the TH-900, and I can only imagine that the balanced output would be even better. 
  
 EDIT: I should also note that I'm in a 100+ year old house running a terrible wiring job of extension cords and power strips (temporary!). If there were noise issues with the Mjolnir 2, I'd have found them.


----------



## Poimandres

Ah! Temporary Permanent!


----------



## ziis

arnotts said:


> Don't know what the MBP is, but the HD800's do need to be EQ'd, or, ideally, modded. Anyone that tells you that the HD800's aren't bright (like a lot of people in the HD800 thread seem to think) is just objectively incorrect. The sound of stock HD800's is completely unengaging and clinical, imo. You could pair it with a warm DAC and a warm amp, but then you've taken away most of the HD800's strengths and just made them sound like weak, pseudo-Audeze headphones.
> 
> If you don't want to do any mods to your HD800's, get your HD600's back. Or get a pair of HD650's and do the coin mod and the foam removal mod. Or just get some LCD-2's if you want that sound (I love both presentations).




I meant to say GMB, GUNGNIR multi bit. 

Thanks, I'll look into the modding, which, unfortunately, isn't what I'm good at...


----------



## ziis

mangler said:


> If M2 is like Lyr2, 7DJ8 tubes aren't ideal. At least that's the word I got from Schiit support when I asked about using the 7DJ8 in the Lyr2




Did they say why? I also have a pair of tesla 6922


----------



## rb2013

arnotts said:


> Don't know what the MBP is, but the HD800's do need to be EQ'd, or, ideally, modded. Anyone that tells you that the HD800's aren't bright (like a lot of people in the HD800 thread seem to think) is just objectively incorrect. The sound of stock HD800's is completely unengaging and clinical, imo. You could pair it with a warm DAC and a warm amp, but then you've taken away most of the HD800's strengths and just made them sound like weak, pseudo-Audeze headphones.
> 
> If you don't want to do any mods to your HD800's, get your HD600's back. Or get a pair of HD650's and do the coin mod and the foam removal mod. Or just get some LCD-2's if you want that sound (I love both presentations).


 

 The stock HD800's are amazing HPs' but do have a bit of sibilance (see below) - but that can be 'cured' with a cable change.  I have had a few and love the Moon Black Dragon V2 cable.  With this cable - all brightness, sibilance gone.  Bass deeper and better defined.  Wider, deeper more holographic sound stage.  The things the HD800 do best remained - neutral, rich natural tone, speaker like sound staging. Really like a new HP.  Highly recommended - just now I need to get a balanced version for the mJ2.  Cable changes on the HD800 are a simple plug and play deal - no mods needed.
  
 Compared to the HE-560's I had - light years ahead.
  
 In the epic 'Battle of 58 Headphones' David Mahler ranked the stock HD800's at #6 and ahead of every planar, then available. 
 If anyone hasn't checked this epic Headfi thread - do so.  David did an amazing job.
*http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared*
  


> *#6 SENNHEISER: HD800​*
> *STRENGTHS*
> *NEUTRALITY KING:* In my opinion, the HD800 is _the_ neutrality king. Depending on the setup, the HD800 may sound warm or bright. Because of its finicky nature with regard to amplification, many have described the HD800 as bright, but I cannot get on board with this description. I have heard the same pair of HD800's sound both dark and bright when paired with different setups. It really is a very amp-dependent headphone.
> 
> ...


 
  
 EditPS:  I have had great success pairing it to the Schiit Lyr. With the right tubes - for me the rare totl Russians just did it - simply majic.  My hope is the MJ2 is that and more - in balanced configuation.  I understand the HD800 respond well to balanced.
  
 This was my take on the various 6922 type tubes in the Lyr/HD800/Moon Black Dragon V2 combo
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes
  
 Cheers!


----------



## learningcurve

@Trastan
  
 Thanks for great info!
 Your input gave me confidence to go ahead and order the MJ2 and it should arrive next week.


----------



## reddog

I have hooked my Mac Book Pro to my Yggdrasil and the Yggy to the Mjolnir 2 ( Ediswan tubes) and I am using MrSpeaker's ETHER'S and the sound is incredible. The bass is so impactf, yet so detailed and textured. The mids are smooth and lush, yet ever so detailed, and musical. The highs are just right, neither bright or fatiguing. The soundstage is large, and very three-dimensionally holograpgic.. The overall sound signature is lush, detailed and transparent.. The natural, tube lushness is very intoxicating, listening to the Ether test track, on Tidal.


----------



## Poimandres

Received my 6N23P 1974 Reflektor SWGP Silver Shield Tubes from Rob and even before burn in they sound crazy good.  Going to let them burn in for a week or so and come back and take a listen.


----------



## mangler

ziis said:


> Did they say why? I also have a pair of tesla 6922




It's been about a year since I asked about using 7dj8 in the Lyr2. I was curious of the situation would be different with M2, and so I sent an email asking if 7dj8 would work in the Mjolnir 2. Here is the response I got:

"We don’t recommend them, as long as the current spec for the heater is at or under 415mA you should be fine"


----------



## Trastan

Looks like @PETEREK will be able to reterminate my Fostex TH-900 to XLR (with an adapter to the original plug, no less!), so I'll be sticking with those. I just love their sound so much, it'd be a shame to waste them on the single-ended output. 
  
 To go with this news, I've placed an order for the Gungnir Multibit, WYRD, and some PYST cables to run them. Can't wait to hear this all connected and running fully balanced. The "end" is in sight!


----------



## ToTo Man

Apologies if this is straying a little too far off-topic, but I am posting this here in the hope of catching the attention of members who own both the Bifrost Uber and Gungnir Multibit.
  
 I'm going to put my neck on the line and risk ridicule by revealing that in my main stereo system, using SINGLE-ENDED, Bifrost Uber sounds better than Gungnir Multibit.  
  
 I am in a fortunate position to have an old school amplifier that has seamless switching between inputs with no latency or silences, so I can A/B back and forth between two DACs in real-time, making any subtle differences easy to detect.  
  
 I will preface by saying that these two DACs are extremely close sound-wise, and that if I didn't have the facility to A/B back and forth in real time, then I would have no hope of differentiating between the two models.  
  
 However when A/B-ing, Bifrost Uber sounds livelier and more exciting than Gungnir Muiltibit.  Gungnir Mulibit is slightly smoother and more laid back, but ultimately sounds slightly distant and veiled compared to Bifrost Uber.  
  
 Identification of these differences required some concentration, and was made harder due to the fact that Bifrost Uber sounds fractionally louder to my ears than Gungnir Multibit (not by much though, perhaps only 0.5dB max difference), but after accounting for this I remain confident in my findings.
  
 I was wondering if anyone else shared this opinion, and had a possible explanation of why Bifrost Uber would sound preferable to Gungnir Multibit?  The only logical explanation I can think of is because I am using the single ended outputs, which are reputed to be worse than balanced (sadly my main system amplifier does not accept balanced inputs so I am unable to put this theory to the test).  Either that or it is just my ears that prefers the sound of Bifrost Uber.  
  
 Thoughts?


----------



## Darthamza

reddog said:


> The MJ2 and Gumby sound great togeather. I am using my MJ2, with my NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes to drive my HE1K and its so beautiful. The bass is so powerful, yet textured, and refined, without leaking or mudding up the mids. The mids have that tube like lushness and smoothness, yet the mids never loose there resolving textured detail,. The highs are spot on perfect, that never fatigues the listner. And whenever one combines the great bass, midds and high, the large soundstage become fantastically three-dimensional holographic that naturally portrays the music. I highly recommend this system to anyone, especially if you are on a budget. The HE1K seem to like 8 watts of balanced tube goodness.



Hi reddog,
Interestingly, i am planning on having that exact same setup for my upcoming HE1k.. So i wanted to ask you if you are using the multi bit or the delta-sigma on Schiit Gungnir.. Also any recommendation for the xlr cables if you are using all the way balanced? And last question, are you on low gain in the Mj2? I am kinda worried about those 8w of power!
Thanks and happy listening!


----------



## reddog

darthamza said:


> Hi reddog,
> Interestingly, i am planning on having that exact same setup for my upcoming HE1k.. So i wanted to ask you if you are using the multi bit or the delta-sigma on Schiit Gungnir.. Also any recommendation for the xlr cables if you are using all the way balanced? And last question, are you on low gain in the Mj2? I am kinda worried about those 8w of power!
> Thanks and happy listening!



I am using the Gungnir Multibit. I got my XLR cables from Amazon, from a generic cable maker. I think it was monocable or mediabridge. I might get a XLR cable from a custom cable maker sometime.


----------



## rb2013

austinvalentine said:


> 7DJ8 Telefunkens add clarity and air but not weight and body (a bit of the opposite of what you're looking for with the HD800's IMO.)  You might want to consider using a couple of Amperex Orange Globes in their place.
> 
> Modding the HD800s is more or less mandatory because of the 6-6.5k chamber reflection - it's not so much a tonal brightness as part of the inherent character of the headphone that must be modded away. There are a number of resources across the web for doing this, but one you might want to check out is Tyll's "DIY Modification for the Sennheiser HD800" article here over at InnerFidelity. It gives a good explanation of what's going on with the HD800 and gives an solid starter mod for fixing the issue that requires little more than cheap craft store materials.
> 
> Mod them, make some tube changes, and then give it a chance. It's entirely possible that it *might* not grow on you at all. But, if it does, you'll have a very solid setup.


 
  
 I would try the Moon Black Dragon V2 cable first before any mods.  My HD800s with this cable - is perfect!  And a serious contender when compared to my friends Stax 09 setup.  A highly refined source helps a lot.
  
 The stock HD800 did very well in David Malhers 'Battle of 58 Flagships' Headfi thread - finishing #6 ahead of the LCD3's and HE-6 (the HEK were not available then).
  
 I think those saying that the HD800's needs to be modded to sound good - have not heard it with a good source and the Moon's.  No need for mods.  The MJ2 with top tubes and the HD800/MBD V2 should be an excellent combination.  Me and many folks I know completely disagree with Tyll's assessment of the HD800's.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared#user_HD800


----------



## Mediahound

rb2013 said:


> I would try the Moon Black Dragon V2 cable first before any mods.  My HD800s with this cable - is perfect!  And a serious contender when compared to my friends Stax 09 setup.  A highly refined source helps a lot.
> 
> The stock HD800 did very well in David Malhers 'Battle of 58 Flagships' Headfi thread - finishing #6 ahead of the LCD3's and HE-6 (the HEK were not available then).
> 
> ...


 

 Just FYI- Tyll actually recommends modding them: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod#2GvwpTZarkSTUHlw.97


----------



## AustinValentine

mediahound said:


> Just FYI- Tyll actually recommends modding them: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod#2GvwpTZarkSTUHlw.97


 
  
 Right, he says that he disagrees with them needing mods (and with Tyll's recommendation to mod them). 
  
 And that his solution for the HD800's inherent fatigue - which is almost certainly caused by reflections in the cup - is to purchase a $200-400 aftermarket cable instead of $15 worth of Felt or Rug Liner plus double-sided adhesive Creatology foam to produce a non-permanent, easily reversible modification.
  
 Then, for gravy, he made sure to imply that anyone who says different just hasn't heard the HD800 from a good source ("I think those saying that the HD800's needs to be modded to sound good - *have not heard it with a good source* and the Moon's.") 
  
_To each their own. _I'm hardly an objectivist, but in this case I trust the measurements used to confirm the problem (like Purrin's waterfall plot), the 3D modeling used to theorize causation (like Arnaud's), and then the widely implemented low-price solution that effectively addresses the modeled problem _and_ produces both measurable and audible/subjective results. 
  
 If someone wants to buy an expensive cable and try that instead, I'm sure not going to try to stop them. I'm sure Moon Audio and other boutique cable manufacturers need to be able to buy shoes for their kids too.


----------



## mangler

trastan said:


> Looks like @PETEREK
> will be able to reterminate my Fostex TH-900 to XLR (with an adapter to the original plug, no less!), so I'll be sticking with those. I just love their sound so much, it'd be a shame to waste them on the single-ended output.
> 
> To go with this news, I've placed an order for the Gungnir Multibit, WYRD, and some PYST cables to run them. Can't wait to hear this all connected and running fully balanced. The "end" is in sight!




I'm also considering reterminating my TH900, so I'd love to hear your impressions of how the sound changed going from SE to balanced out on the M2


----------



## ziis

mangler said:


> It's been about a year since I asked about using 7dj8 in the Lyr2. I was curious of the situation would be different with M2, and so I sent an email asking if 7dj8 would work in the Mjolnir 2. Here is the response I got:
> 
> "We don’t recommend them, as long as the current spec for the heater is at or under 415mA you should be fine"


 

 Thanks.. That's a surprise, according to Upscale Audio:
  
 "7DJ8/PCC88 are a great choice.  They are absolutely compatible with virtually any product that uses 6922 and 6DJ8   Whether it's an amp, preamp, CD player, whatever."
  
 While Schiit says M2 can take 6DJ8 tubes.


----------



## Trastan

mangler said:


> I'm also considering reterminating my TH900, so I'd love to hear your impressions of how the sound c:rolleyes:hanged going from SE to balanced out on the M2



Absolutely; I'll post my experience here. Really unfortunate that the cable isn't easily replaceable. Oh well. I love them anyway.:rolleyes:


----------



## mangler

trastan said:


> Absolutely; I'll post my experience here. Really unfortunate that the cable isn't easily replaceable. Oh well. I love them anyway.:rolleyes:




Yeah, the lack of removable cable is my only real complaint about the TH900  I think they sound pretty great SE, so I bet they're amazing balanced. The difference between my LCD-X SE and balanced is quite noticable, so I have high hopes!


----------



## mangler

ziis said:


> Thanks.. That's a surprise, according to Upscale Audio:
> 
> "7DJ8/PCC88 are a great choice.  They are absolutely compatible with virtually any product that uses 6922 and 6DJ8   Whether it's an amp, preamp, CD player, whatever."
> 
> While Schiit says M2 can take 6DJ8 tubes.




I thought it was odd too, but maybe Mjolnir 2 has atypical demands? (I know jack about the technicalities of tubes, so that may not even make sense)


----------



## Trastan

mangler said:


> Yeah, the lack of removable cable is my only real complaint about the TH900
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 So do I. The fact that the stock cable is already of pretty high quality and balanced-ready is definitely appreciated.


----------



## money4me247

austinvalentine said:


> Right, he says that he disagrees with them needing mods (and with Tyll's recommendation to mod them).
> 
> And that his solution for the HD800's inherent fatigue - which is almost certainly caused by reflections in the cup - is to purchase a $200-400 aftermarket cable instead of $15 worth of Felt or Rug Liner plus double-sided adhesive Creatology foam to produce a non-permanent, easily reversible modification.
> 
> ...


 
 I hesitant to wander into this type of debate, but this a pretty good resource of what type of scale you can typically expect with different types of "tweaks": 
 http://en.goldenears.net/index.php?mid=KB_Columns&document_srl=1921&m=0
  
 basically headphones or listening space (which is more of a speaker set-up but would correlate with mods involving damping/earcup/earpads in headphones) can cause 1-20 dB difference in measured FR. With interconnections, you are looking at a scale of 0.001-0.1 dB measurable change in the FR curve. I personally have not found a cable (yet) that measures any significant FR change though if anyone thinks that their cable does, I would be happy to measure it for you. For earpads swaps or other mods, I have found it to be very dependant on the headphone and the specific mod. Some mods/earpad swaps cause little to no measureable change while others can drastically change the overall sound signature to a point where non-audiophiles can recognize and appreciate the difference. The AKG K553 pro was one recent example where I found you can easily drastically alter its measured sound signature to a very significant degree with earpad swaps (with the stock pleather earpads measuring the best out of all the options I've tried including the several Brainwavz and the Alpha Prime earpads). The HE-400S on the other hand measured to have really no real dramatic FR change in earpad swaps (velour vs focuspads) or with grill mods.
  
 With that in mind, I think it would be wiser to pursue the measurement-based mods first prior to cable upgrades if specifically trying to alter the sound signature of a pair of headphones in general. Of course, as always, if unhappy with the sound of your headphones, you will gain the largest change in overall sound simply by switching headphones.


----------



## rb2013

Well I beg to differ on the HD800 mods - but if they work for you awesome.
  
 I stand by David Mahler's comments on the HD800's he is someone whose opinion I trust.
  


> _Today, I would say that I consider the HD800 to be the most tonally neutral of all the headphones that I've ever had the pleasure of hearing. This attribute alone makes the HD800 one of my most often-used headphones._


 


> *STRENGTHS* *NEUTRALITY KING:* In my opinion, the HD800 is _the_ neutrality king. Depending on the setup, the HD800 may sound warm or bright. Because of its finicky nature with regard to amplification, many have described the HD800 as bright, but I cannot get on board with this description. I have heard the same pair of HD800's sound both dark and bright when paired with different setups. It really is a very amp-dependent headphone.


 


 David Mahler's stash for his epic review - 'Battle of 58 flagships' Headfi thread.  So some may not agree with David's conclusion and #6 ranking of the HD800's - but I'd say it's hard to argue he has a lack of experience and knowledge about audiophile HP's.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared#user_HD800
  
 Being a musician I have found them the most natural and neutral of all the HPs I've tried - the Stax SR009s being close.  But a little added planar like euphonics does sweeten them (and darken them a touch - in a LCD like fashion), adds greater weigh and definition to the bass.  But giving them greater clarity and transparency.  So for me the $400 for the very well built Moon's was money well spent. Going back to the stock cable is not some thing I'd even consider - I've tried it - a major let down.
  
 Since the HD800's ship stock with a SE cable - if you're using them with the MJ2 and want the best it can offer you'll need to run your HP's in balanced mode - you should consider the Moon Black Dragon balanced as a possible path.  I have had these amazing HP's for over 3 yrs  - with 3 different cables and 5 different amps.  For the last two being completely satisfied with the Lyr/HD800/Moon combination.   Before the Lyr I had a Woo WA6-SE.   The Lyr required top tubes to really get there - but it did for me.
  
 After rolling 50 different type of 6922's in the Lyr over the course of a year.  I boiled it down to 17 top tubes. Here is the in depth review I did of those 17 - 6922 types in the Lyr. http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes
  
 So now comes the MJ2 and I will be getting one - and my hope is it even better then the Lyr (no reason it shouldn't), being balanced, quieter and more powerful (in balanced mode).
 I'm particularly excited about hearing the HD800's with the MJ2 - as David stated in his review:


> *BALANCED MODE:* I've found that the HD800 scales particularly well in balanced mode - better than most other headphones. With the HD800 in balanced mode, I clearly notice an added sense space and dimension


 
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Whilst I don't have a position on this off-topic mods versus cable discussion - and as a pianist I can agree the HD800 sounds natural and neutral with a lot of material I've tried - we cannot ignore that _everyone hears differently_.

Thus it's not an issue of whether David is trustworthy, experienced and knowledgeable. For the record, he \strikes me as all of these things. The issue is that he is _one listener_ representing _one data-point_. Obviously there are those - you rb2013, possibly me as well - who provide supporting data-points to his personal findings. Equally obviously, others hear and find differently - together with supporting measurements no less!

It's important to acknowledge not only the wide variance in how we hear and decode but also the great range of knowledge and expertise contributed by a large number of members here, not least of them being professional acoustic engineers such as Arnaud!


----------



## reddog

argo duck said:


> ^ Whilst I don't have a position on this off-topic mods versus cable discussion - and as a pianist I can agree the HD800 sounds natural and neutral with a lot of material I've tried - we cannot ignore that _everyone hears differently_.
> 
> Thus it's not an issue of whether David is trustworthy, experienced and knowledgeable. For the record, he \strikes me as all of these things. The issue is that he is _one listener_ representing _one data-point_. Obviously there are those - you rb2013, possibly me as well - who provide supporting data-points to his personal findings. Equally obviously, others hear and find differently - together with supporting measurements no less!
> 
> It's important to acknowledge not only the wide variance in how we hear and decode but also the great range of knowledge and expertise contributed by a large number of members here, not least of them being professional acoustic engineers such as Arnaud!



Well said sir, each of our impressions are a unique data point. And everyone has a unique opinion/ data point on headphones they hear. To me one should look at the variance of data points, to get a better empirical view of any give headphone.


----------



## tuxbass

toto man said:


> Sorry for the silly question, but is it possible to connect Gumby to Mjo2 using balanced and then Mjo2 to my main hifi power amp using single ended, or does it need to be either balanced or single ended all the way along the chain?


 
 It works just fine.
 Since I didn't want to keep my MJ2 on all the time, I introduced SYS into the chain and it perfectly solves my problem(s) 
  
 Now I can switch between these two configurations:
  
 DacMagic Plus > SYS > A5  (Unbalanced)
 DacMagic Plus > MJ2 > SYS > A5  (with the volume pot on the SYS maxed out)
  
 Also solves my other problem of not having to switch off the speakers when I connect my headphones to MJ2. I just (mute) turn down the volume on SYS.


----------



## rb2013

argo duck said:


> ^ Whilst I don't have a position on this off-topic mods versus cable discussion - and as a pianist I can agree the HD800 sounds natural and neutral with a lot of material I've tried - we cannot ignore that _everyone hears differently_.
> 
> Thus it's not an issue of whether David is trustworthy, experienced and knowledgeable. For the record, he \strikes me as all of these things. The issue is that he is _one listener_ representing _one data-point_. Obviously there are those - you rb2013, possibly me as well - who provide supporting data-points to his personal findings. Equally obviously, others hear and find differently - together with supporting measurements no less!
> 
> It's important to acknowledge not only the wide variance in how we hear and decode but also the great range of knowledge and expertise contributed by a large number of members here, not least of them being professional acoustic engineers such as Arnaud!


 

 Well I agree with your statement on the HD800's.  Sennheiser is a very deep pocketed firm with an excellent engineering staff - they produce freq charts with each pair (not many other HP companies do).  If their HPs could be improved in such a glaring way with simple and cheap addition of padding - I think they would.  But in any event if the mod works for some folks - awesome.
  
 This whole discussion on freq measures of a transducer - reminds me of the IM and THD battles between Pioneer, Sansui, Kenwood, etc.. back in the '70s.  Then came class A tube amps with 10x more distortion - that people loved to listen to more.  And the CD is 'perfect sound' of the 80s - but then vinyl came back in a huge way - despite it's awful s/n ratios, wow and flutter, etc...Engineers will be engineers - bless them!  
  
 Different strokes for different folks - if numbers on a paper is what's important - then all the power to you.


----------



## JK-47

How about reterminating the stock HD800 cable with a $5 Gold plated Neutrik 4 pin XLR...


----------



## rb2013

jk-47 said:


> How about reterminating the stock HD800 cable with a $5 Gold plated Neutrik 4 pin XLR...


 

 That'll work.


----------



## rb2013

Another choice and one I'm seriously debating vs the Moon balanced - Stephan Audio Arts Endorphin balanced.  I might get both and keep the SAA if the balanced are better then the Moons by a significant measure.  I have heard the SAA SE on my HD800's, but have not lived with them for a long period of time.  They added even more air and transparency to the HD800's.  But they are rich - and to me not worth more then double the Moon Black Dragon V2 price.  The balanced version may be better though and worth the cost.
  
 http://www.stefanaudioart.com/shop/endorphin-balanced-high-end-headphone-cable-for-the-sennheiser-hd800-hardwired-version-price-includes-installation/
  
 One of the reasons I bought the Moon's after my Richard Warren's failed - was the backlog at SAA.  For the HD800 Endorphins at the time it was a 9 month wait - payment upfront.  I'm glad I went with the Moon's.  Honestly, if it wasn't for the Moon BDV2 I would be using the Stax SR009's right now.  So I guess they saved me money - a lot of money.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 So with getting the MJ2 it's decision time again.


----------



## ericfarrell85

rb2013 said:


> I think those saying that the HD800's needs to be modded to sound good - have not heard it with a good source and the Moon's.  No need for mods.  The MJ2 with top tubes and the HD800/MBD V2 should be an excellent combination.  Me and many folks I know completely disagree with Tyll's assessment of the HD800's.


 
  
 This is the section in your post that rubs people the wrong way. Those people, "who have not heard it with a good source", are in many cases individuals who have owned more gear than you can conjure up in your wildest pipe-dream. Some of those individuals own DAC's that surpass the cost of your entire setup by 10 times. Others, including myself, would find the idea of pairing the original Lyr with the HD800 so grim, that I'd nominate it particularly as a setup to avoid. And finally there are others who own a Moon HD800 cable -- myself again -- and need a reminder on which closet it's currently collecting dust in.
  
 SO... let us dispense with the idea that only you have heard the HD800 with a good source and an overpriced cable.
  
 Yet, one question remains: have you heard the HD800 modded? While assuredly you're in touch with what other people have and haven't heard, it's wacky comical to think that it's YOU who hasn't heard the very thing you're arguing against.


----------



## RCBinTN

FWIW, I heard a big improvement in the SQ of my HD800 by moving from the Gungnir to the Gungnir MB DAC.  No other changes.  Much better bass clarity and a larger soundstage.
 I'm using the Sennheiser HDVA600 amp and CH800 balanced cables. My HD800's have no mods in the cans.
  
 Enjoy your music -
 RCB


----------



## rb2013

ericfarrell85 said:


> This is the section in your post that rubs people the wrong way. Those people, "who have not heard it with a good source", are in many cases individuals who have owned more gear than you can conjure up in your wildest pipe-dream. Some of those individuals own DAC's that surpass the cost of your entire setup by 10 times. Others, including myself, would find the idea of pairing the original Lyr with the HD800 so grim, that I'd nominate it particularly as a setup to avoid. And finally there are others who own a Moon HD800 cable -- myself again -- and need a reminder on which closet it's currently collecting dust in.
> 
> SO... let us dispense with the idea that only you have heard the HD800 with a good source and an overpriced cable.
> 
> Yet, one question remains: have you heard the HD800 modded? While assuredly you're in touch with what other people have and haven't heard, it's wacky comical to think that it's YOU who hasn't heard the very thing you're arguing against.



Fair enough - I retract that entire statement. What I should have said more judiciously, and I completely agree with David Mahler, is the HD800's are sensitive to different amps. Maybe more so then other HP's. I would add, by their being neutral they also unmask brighter sources, and possibly poorer sources. Again, just one 'data point'. When I look at David Mahler's source and amp collection, I look at his data point with greater wieght. Now I can see his review of other HP's some may disagree with. Including some popular ones he calls 'dark' but in a good way. For awhile I had the $30,000 APL NWO, I did trade it for the $6,500 APL NWO jr and a bunch of cash. I won't go into my cables and power filtering, ddc's (see my Gustard U12 thread), etc. I just don't think many have systems 10 times mine - that'd be $400,000. I sold the Woo WA-6SE with it's NOS tubes for more then the twice what the Lyr costs. So it's not about the money spent = sound quaility. Sometimes it does, some times there are amazing values that are outstanding. I count the Lyr with the right tubes one of those. I don't just listen to HP's but have two different pretty refined speaker systems. So my perspective is broader than many. Now I ask you, if I think the HD800/Moon's are great, why mess with it. But maybe I will try it. I'm not adverse to modding equipment (see my R2R DAC60 Mod Project thread). If your Moons are the Black Dragon V2's and balanced - send me a PM - I'll buy them from you. No sense collecting dust in a closet. That has me wondering why you haven't sold them already? They sell quickly on the classifieds.



rcbintn said:


> FWIW, I heard a big improvement in the SQ of my HD800 by moving from the Gungnir to the Gungnir MB DAC.  No other changes.  Much better bass clarity and a larger soundstage.
> I'm using the Sennheiser HDVA600 amp and CH800 balanced cables. My HD800's have no mods in the cans.
> 
> Enjoy your music -
> RCB


How much were your CH800 balanced cables? Do they offer a 4pin xlr option? I'm thinking of starting a new thread - a HD800 and MJ2 - hp balanced cable shootout. From the $4 conversion of the stock to the XLO's and SAA's. Maybe assemble 6 or 7 different cables. Would be fun!
Cheers!


----------



## Nitori

rb2013 said:


> How much were your CH800 balanced cables? Do they offer a 4pin xlr option?


 
  
 The cables are 4 pin XLR by default, the Sennheiser Amps do not offer 3 pin options.
  
 Unfortunately they are quite expensive (379 usd MSRP in the US, in Europe not so much) and I am not sure how well they hold against.....let's say a Moon Audio Black or Silver Dragon for approximately the same price (especially if you want a shorter cable).


----------



## RCBinTN

nitori said:


> The cables are 4 pin XLR by default, the Sennheiser Amps do not offer 3 pin options.
> 
> Unfortunately they are quite expensive (379 usd MSRP in the US, in Europe not so much) and I am not sure how well they hold against.....let's say a Moon Audio Black or Silver Dragon for approximately the same price (especially if you want a shorter cable).


 
  
 Correct, that's how much I paid for the CH800.  I believe it's the same as the stock SE cable but with a 4-pin XLR plug.  I've heard other Head-Fi folks recommend the Moon Audio Black to tone down the HD800 brightness.  I don't have personal experience with the Moon cables.


----------



## rb2013

nitori said:


> The cables are 4 pin XLR by default, the Sennheiser Amps do not offer 3 pin options.
> 
> Unfortunately they are quite expensive (379 usd MSRP in the US, in Europe not so much) and I am not sure how well they hold against.....let's say a Moon Audio Black or Silver Dragon for approximately the same price (especially if you want a shorter cable).


That is pretty expensive. I was hoping for a cheaper option. I bought my Moon Black Dragon v2 in a 10ft length, it's nice to have the extra length. And it's only $50 more. On the SAA's it like $200 more! The Silver Dragon's are good with the darker planars, but maybe not such a good match with the HD800's. I had the cheaper Blue's with HE500's I had, that was a great low cost combination. I loved the HE500, but the SQ and comfort of the HD800's is better.




rcbintn said:


> Correct, that's how much I paid for the CH800.  I believe it's the same as the stock SE cable but with a 4-pin XLR plug.  I've heard other Head-Fi folks recommend the Moon Audio Black to tone down the HD800 brightness.  I don't have personal experience with the Moon cables.


There is a review of a few different cables on the HD800's. I'll see if I can find it. With getting the MJ2 I'm sure I'm not the only one looking for a new balanced cable and exploring the available options. I have to say the Moon's are very durable, I'm hard on my hp cables. I use them alot, besides audio, I use my HD800 at night to watch movies, sports and cable. I like my action movies and football kinda' loud - wifey not so much. The speaker like sound staging of the HD800's it great with movies. But you know the routine, lot's of getting up, shifting positions. My old Warrens failed after a yr, the Moon's have heald up for years, and I have the stocks for backup. The Moon's also have a $75 4pin xlr to SE adapter for the Black Dragons, $50 for the Blues.


----------



## RCBinTN

One more thought about HD800 cables (sorry to derail the thread)...I ordered WyWires Red cables for my HD800.  Heard good things about that combo.  Alex is shipping them tomorrow.


----------



## TheWuss

Anybody verify use of E288CC yet for Mjolnir 2???

 I just bought a pair but don't want to roll them in until i know smoke won't emit from the amp. 

I know Lyr users in the past had no trouble.....

Thanks in advance.


----------



## mhamel

thewuss said:


> Anybody verify use of E288CC yet for Mjolnir 2???
> 
> I just bought a pair but don't want to roll them in until i know smoke won't emit from the amp.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Heater current draw on an e288cc is 475mA, which exceeds the capacity of the MJ2, I would not suggest using them. The original Lyr had a heater circuit that could support higher current than Lyr2 or MJ2.
  
 Thanks,
   -Mike


----------



## TheWuss

mhamel said:


> Heater current draw on an e288cc is 475mA, which exceeds the capacity of the MJ2, I would not suggest using them. The original Lyr had a heater circuit that could support higher current than Lyr2 or MJ2.
> 
> Thanks,
> -Mike




Ok. I caught brent jessee on the phone before he shipped them. I will come up with something else....

 Thanks for the reply.


----------



## jjacq

Besides the obvious Gungnir Multibit, what DACs are people pairing the Mjolnir 2 with?


----------



## reddog

I have finally rolled in the LISST tubes into the MJ2. So far it sounds meh , the bass not nearly as impactfull, when I have real tubes in it. The mids are nice but seem distant, perhaps veiled. The highs are fair, not as good as a tube. These impressions are after, 30 minutes. I shall check on the sound in a day or so.


----------



## JK-47

reddog said:


> I have finally rolled in the LISST tubes into the MJ2. So far it sounds meh , the bass not nearly as impactfull, when I have real tubes in it. The mids are nice but seem distant, perhaps veiled. The highs are fair, not as good as a tube. These impressions are after, 30 minutes. I shall check on the sound in a day or so.




Which tubes have you tried so far?


----------



## reddog

jk-47 said:


> Which tubes have you tried so far?



I have used the following tubes NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, Telefunken TK's, NOS Ediswan CV2492, Genalex Gold Lions and the stock tubes. I have barely scratched the surface of tube rolling. My favorite tube are the NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum, which I use on special occasions.


----------



## JK-47

reddog said:


> I have used the following tubes NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, Telefunken TK's, NOS Ediswan CV2492, Genalex Gold Lions and the stock tubes. I have barely scratched the surface of tube rolling. My favorite tube are the NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum, which I use on special occasions.




What are your initial impressions between the tube's you've tried?


----------



## reddog

jk-47 said:


> What are your initial impressions between the tube's you've tried?



Best tubes NOS telefunken E88CC platinum>NOS Ediswan> Genalex Gold Lion> Telefunken TK's. I will place the LISST once I have listened some more.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Spec question with regards to pairing it with the Woo Audio Wee, the dynamic-to-electrostatic headphone converter, for future electrostatic headphones.
  
 So per the user manual, the M2 has the following outputs: "Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 8.0W RMS per channel Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 5.0W RMS per channel Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 850mW RMS per channel Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 425mW RMS per channel."
  
 WEE says "A minimum of 3 watts of power amp inputs are recommended or you will experience sound distortion."
  
 Is this enough power?


----------



## crazychile

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Spec question with regards to pairing it with the Woo Audio Wee, the dynamic-to-electrostatic headphone converter, for future electrostatic headphones.
> 
> So per the user manual, the M2 has the following outputs: "Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 8.0W RMS per channel Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 5.0W RMS per channel Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 850mW RMS per channel Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 425mW RMS per channel."
> 
> ...



The M2 only has a headphone output. You need an amplifier with speaker outputs to use with the Wee. Yeah,you could cobble something to make sound happen through the headphone jack, but it's only barely enough power under the best of situations. Look for a different amp.


----------



## Mediahound

crazychile said:


> The M2 only has a headphone output.


 
  
 Nope. It has preamp out as well (both single-ended and balanced):


----------



## zive

Hi reddog, I'm looking at springing for the same Telefunken E88CC's. I'm looking at Upscale's offerings and while I will definitely be investing in platinum grade I was wondering if you can comment on the cryo-treated option.
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## elwappo99

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Spec question with regards to pairing it with the Woo Audio Wee, the dynamic-to-electrostatic headphone converter, for future electrostatic headphones.
> 
> So per the user manual, the M2 has the following outputs: "Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 8.0W RMS per channel Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 5.0W RMS per channel Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 850mW RMS per channel Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 425mW RMS per channel."
> 
> ...


 
  
  


crazychile said:


> The M2 only has a headphone output. You need an amplifier with speaker outputs to use with the Wee. Yeah,you could cobble something to make sound happen through the headphone jack, but it's only barely enough power under the best of situations. Look for a different amp.


 
  
  
 This is an interesting area. Typically with these Electrostat amplifiers you hook up a true speaker amplifier to the WEE. 
  
 Since the mjolnir is so powerful, it might work to hook up the WEE to the 4-pin headphone out on the front. However, you'd probably be better off with a true speaker amp.


----------



## crazychile

mediahound said:


> crazychile said:
> 
> 
> > The M2 only has a headphone output.
> ...




Well yeah, but i believe he was looking for amplified output for the Wee.


----------



## PurdueAlum

zive said:


> Hi reddog, I'm looking at springing for the same Telefunken E88CC's. I'm looking at Upscale's offerings and while I will definitely be investing in platinum grade I was wondering if you can comment on the cryo-treated option.
> 
> Thanks in advance.




+1 on this. I'm considering the MJ2, but am new to both balanced and tube amps. Still trying to understand the various options for tubes and how the sound changes depending on tube, amp, headphone pairing. Def interested in understanding Gold vs Platinum and Cryo treatment. Nothing like jumping in the deep end. Thanks for any insight or a reference to resources.


----------



## reddog

purduealum said:


> +1 on this. I'm considering the MJ2, but am new to both balanced and tube amps. Still trying to understand the various options for tubes and how the sound changes depending on tube, amp, headphone pairing. Def interested in understanding Gold vs Platinum and Cryo treatment. Nothing like jumping in the deep end. Thanks for any insight or a reference to resources.



I try to stay away from the Cryo treated tubes. I recommend platinum or gold plated tubes.


----------



## JK-47

reddog said:


> I try to stay away from the Cryo treated tubes. I recommend platinum or gold plated tubes.


 

 I thought platinum and gold grading was how closely matched a pair of tubes are... One ebay seller grades platinum <5%, and gold <10% variance between mutual conductance measurements... Upscale Audio's definition is slightly different...
  
 http://www.upscaleaudio.com/grading-and-matching-small-signal-tubes/


----------



## reddog

jk-47 said:


> I thought platinum and gold grading was how closely matched a pair of tubes are... One ebay seller grades platinum <5%, and gold <10% variance between mutual conductance measurements... Upscale Audio's definition is slightly different...
> 
> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/grading-and-matching-small-signal-tubes/



+1 Yes upscale uses a slightly different definition of platinum and gold grade.


----------



## crazychile

reddog said:


> purduealum said:
> 
> 
> > +1 on this. I'm considering the MJ2, but am new to both balanced and tube amps. Still trying to understand the various options for tubes and how the sound changes depending on tube, amp, headphone pairing. Def interested in understanding Gold vs Platinum and Cryo treatment. Nothing like jumping in the deep end. Thanks for any insight or a reference to resources.
> ...


 

 reddog, whats wrong with the cryo'd tubes? Does it negatively affect the sound quality? I was considering this option because the tubes are supposed to last a lot longer, and on expensive NOS tubes that seems like something a guy would want.


----------



## reddog

crazychile said:


> reddog, whats wrong with the cryo'd tubes? Does it negatively affect the sound quality? I was considering this option because the tubes are supposed to last a lot longer, and on expensive NOS tubes that seems like something a guy would want.



I was told its a gimmick and has no real effect upon the sound produced by the cryo-treated tube. However I was told this, when, I first got into the hobby. I have not looked up any empirical evidence on the subject.


----------



## macadmv

reddog said:


> I was told its a gimmick and has no real effect upon the sound produced by the cryo-treated tube. However I was told this, when, I first got into the hobby. I have not looked up any empirical evidence on the subject.


 

 Cyro-treatment isn't supposed to effect the sound...it's supposed to strengthen and make the tube more durable.


----------



## zive

I was curious so a (very) brief google search produced a number of articles that cast doubt on any (let alone positive) effects that cryo-treatment may have on sound quality or tube longevity. I though this article did a fairly good job of explaining the cryo process, its effects, and putting those effects in the context of vacuum tubes: 
  
 http://www.effectrode.com/cryogenic-treatment-tubes-engineers-perspective/
  
 The TL;DR of the article is that unlike some automotive parts or tools which are cryo-treated to strengthen them against mechanical wear, tubes are not subjected to mechanical stress because they don't contain moving parts (except for e-'s, of course). Furthermore, the author, Phil Taylor, makes the case that in order for the low temperatures involved in cryo-treatment to have their intended effect on the molecular structure of metal alloys the parts in question would need to be quenched during their formation. Because the quenching process is not part of normal tube manufacturing cryo-treatment could only have a negligible effect on tubes because cryo exposure "finishes" a process that the manufacturers never really started.
  
 After reading several articles that highlight the lack of any scientific evidence behind dealers' claims regarding the benefits of cryogenic treatment I'm starting to think that the cryo option may just be a way for salespeople to get us to part with a few extra bucks when we're already shelling out $100's for high end tubes. 
  
 Sorry for getting off-topic on a matter that I'm sure has been debated to a much greater extent on other threads, but considering that most people with MJ2's seem to be into rolling this seemed pertinent. 
  
 Cheers


----------



## Trastan

Following up on my previous posts: I now have my Wyrd > Gungnir Multibit > Mjolnir 2 > Fostex TH900 chain up and running, completely balanced, using PYST cables throughout. Not that it's necessary to say at this point, but there's a big difference between the balanced and single-ended headphone outputs, especially in the bass. 
  
 I switched back to the Gold Lions, as well, after some additional testing. Not a huge difference between them, but that's where I am. 
  
 The biggest difference that I noticed immediately going from Bifrost Uber and single-ended to Gungnir Multibit and balanced was in three-dimensionality (that's a term, right?). I don't know how else to explain it. I start my music, and I instantly worry that I've left my speakers on. It sounds like the music is coming from the room around me. Just crazy, especially using (semi) closed headphones. The difference is big enough that it reminds me of the effects on my receiver. 
  
 I'd say that the Gungnir Multibit/Mjolnir 2/TH900 combo works very well together. The problem is, now I'm EXTRA hooked. I... want more headphones.
  
 I thought that I was done...


----------



## rb2013

crazychile said:


> reddog, whats wrong with the cryo'd tubes? Does it negatively affect the sound quality? I was considering this option because the tubes are supposed to last a lot longer, and on expensive NOS tubes that seems like something a guy would want.


I have tried many cryo'd tubes from different sources. For the 6922 I bought from CryoSet, both the regular cyro'd and 'super' cyro'd. Out of the box they do sound better, but the same tubes with several hundred hours burnin converge to the same sound quality. So the cyro process is a temporary head start. On the 5ug4 rec the life of the cyro'd tubes was shortened dramatically. Same for KT-88‘s and 6550's. So I wouldn't recommend it.


----------



## Doneko

I have a Sennheiser HD700. Which is a better amp for singe ended operation, the Lyr 2 or the Mjolnir 2? I understand that the Mjolnir 2 is a better choice for future upgrade to balanced. I like the Lyr 2 better for its smaller footprint. Does the Lyr 2 sound better because it was designed to be single ended?


----------



## Shembot

doneko said:


> I have a Sennheiser HD700. Which is a better amp for singe ended operation, the Lyr 2 or the Mjolnir 2? I understand that the Mjolnir 2 is a better choice for future upgrade to balanced. I like the Lyr 2 better for its smaller footprint. Does the Lyr 2 sound better because it was designed to be single ended?


 

 While some have reported that the single-ended outputs of Ragnarok (and therefore Mjolnir 2 using the same topology) are not as good as the balanced, I can say that both the HD700 and the HD800 sound great single-ended from the Mjolnir 2 (while waiting on my balanced cable ). While the balanced does sound better, I haven't found the single-ended to be quite as lacking as some reports have indicated. I can't compare it directly to the Lyr 2, though, as I haven't heard it.


----------



## shultzee

shembot said:


> doneko said:
> 
> 
> > I have a Sennheiser HD700. Which is a better amp for singe ended operation, the Lyr 2 or the Mjolnir 2? I understand that the Mjolnir 2 is a better choice for future upgrade to balanced. I like the Lyr 2 better for its smaller footprint. Does the Lyr 2 sound better because it was designed to be single ended?
> ...


 

 Agreed.  SE =good,  Balanced=Awesome  .


----------



## tuxbass

Is it really the MJ2 sounding so much better after about 15-20 mins when the tubes have warmed-up or is it just my brain playing tricks on me ?


----------



## Trastan

shultzee said:


> Agreed.  SE =good,  Balanced=Awesome  .


 
 Definitely. The SE output is no slouch. Big upgrade over, for example, the Asgard 2 to my ears.


----------



## Doneko

Thank you all for your replies!
  
 It seems like the Mjolnir 2 is the more futureproof choice. I can start with single ended and just get a balanced cable a little bit later so I enjoy two separate upgrades 
  
 I'd like to gauge the upgrade from SE to balanced. What makes a  bigger difference in your opinion? Switching from SE to balanced on Mjolnir 2, or switching from 256 AAC (iTunes or Apple Music) files to ALAC lossless ripped from the CD?


----------



## Trastan

doneko said:


> Thank you all for your replies!
> 
> It seems like the Mjolnir 2 is the more futureproof choice. I can start with single ended and just get a balanced cable a little bit later so I enjoy two separate upgrades
> 
> I'd like to gauge the upgrade from SE to balanced. What makes a  bigger difference in your opinion? Switching from SE to balanced on Mjolnir 2, or switching from 256 AAC (iTunes or Apple Music) files to ALAC lossless ripped from the CD?


 
 Other, more experienced folk can chime in as well, but I'd definitely say that the switch from the SE to balanced would give you a much larger performance improvement over moving from iTunes files to lossless.


----------



## crazychile

shembot said:


> doneko said:
> 
> 
> > I have a Sennheiser HD700. Which is a better amp for singe ended operation, the Lyr 2 or the Mjolnir 2? I understand that the Mjolnir 2 is a better choice for future upgrade to balanced. I like the Lyr 2 better for its smaller footprint. Does the Lyr 2 sound better because it was designed to be single ended?
> ...


 

 Yeah, I don't get why people are so shocked that Balanced is noticeably better than SE. If it's done properly, it SHOULD be better. That's kind of the point of it all.


----------



## RCBinTN

doneko said:


> Thank you all for your replies!
> 
> It seems like the Mjolnir 2 is the more futureproof choice. I can start with single ended and just get a balanced cable a little bit later so I enjoy two separate upgrades
> 
> I'd like to gauge the upgrade from SE to balanced. What makes a  bigger difference in your opinion? Switching from SE to balanced on Mjolnir 2, or switching from 256 AAC (iTunes or Apple Music) files to ALAC lossless ripped from the CD?


 
  
 Since you already have the M2 with balanced capability, that would be a relatively easy change to make.
  
 My history:
 I had already purchased the LCD-X and was driving them SE with the BiFrost/A2 stack with compressed music from iTunes.
  
 Then upgraded the stack to the original G/M equipment.  Now listening in balanced mode with compressed music.  Big improvement in SQ, but I upgraded the equipment at the same time as I went to balanced.
  
 Then, I heard high resolution music at a headphone meet in Nashville.  Totally blew me away.  The SQ was much better.  I immediately took steps to divorce myself from AAC/MP3 files and move to at least M4A (16/44.1) music files and JRiver.  Never going back.  However, the SQ will be very much influenced by 1) the quality of the original recording, 2) the quality of your components, 3) the type of music you listen to, and 4) as Currawong always says, the volume level.  I've noticed less of a difference in pop music, which I rarely listen to, but in other music genre where the instruments are more separated there's more of a difference.
  
 Net - all these moves made sense.  One step at a time, unless you have deep pockets.


----------



## Doneko

doneko said:


> I have a Sennheiser HD700. Which is a better amp for singe ended operation, the Lyr 2 or the Mjolnir 2? I understand that the Mjolnir 2 is a better choice for future upgrade to balanced. I like the Lyr 2 better for its smaller footprint. Does the Lyr 2 sound better because it was designed to be single ended?


 
  
 I asked the same question from Nick T. at Schiit. Here is his response: "For the HD700 the Mjolnir 2 single ended should have a slight edge over the Lyr 2. However both will do a fine job with those headphones."
  
 Looks like the Mjolnir is the way to go for me. Not for the slight edge in SE, but for the versatility.


----------



## Trastan

doneko said:


> I asked the same question from Nick T. at Schiit. Here is his response: "For the HD700 the Mjolnir 2 single ended should have a slight edge over the Lyr 2. However both will do a fine job with those headphones."
> 
> Looks like the Mjolnir is the way to go for me. Not for the slight edge in SE, but for the versatility.


 
 You won't be disappointed. The balanced out of the Mjolnir 2 is awesome, but the single-ended is no slouch. I can't speak for the Lyr 2, but it was an obvious upgrade coming from my Asgard 2. You'll especially have no issue with a set as easy to drive as the HD700 (which, if I remember correctly, aren't terribly far from my TH900 in signature).


----------



## grdlow

GE5670 tubes (see link) + Mjolnir2 = WIN? 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/702376/ifi-audio-pro-desktop-line-discussion-thread/750#post_11943547


----------



## Trastan

Update: after some more break-in(?) time, coupled with better learning how to listen to music more critically, I've found that I'm preferring the LISST over tubes for the Mjolin 2/Gungnir Multibit combo. They reduce the harshness in the treble on my Fostex TH900 (especially helpful with those) while actually adding to the overall coherency and bass punch. I'm really surprised to find this to be the case, but that's my opinion. 
  
 Just FYI for those curious. LISST come highly recommended from me for the Mjolnir 2, at least after some break-in time. I certainly didn't like them in the beginning!
  
 Now if I can just track down a set of LCD-X!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

The nice words that I'm hearing about Mjolnir 2 and Solid State are really just encouraging me to pull the trigger on Ragnarok, an undisputed King of Solid State, as the K1Ks that I'm thinking about really do want a speaker amp.


----------



## zive

I haven't yet found myself prefering the LISST over even the stock tubes, as much as I'd like to considering the LISST cost me 5x what the stock tubes did. I'm holding out on your word that break in (either of the equipment or my ears) will make them preferable to tube sound. My problem is that with my current preference for the tubes the LISST only have about 3 hours on them while the tubes are nearing the 100 hour mark.
  
 Cheers


----------



## reddog

bosiemoncrieff said:


> The nice words that I'm hearing about Mjolnir 2 and Solid State are really just encouraging me to pull the trigger on Ragnarok, an undisputed King of Solid State, as the K1Ks that I'm thinking about really do want a speaker amp.



Go for it, I highly recommend the mighty Ragnarock. I got the MJ2 for 8 watts of balanced tube goodness. I have yet to like the LISST tubes, just to dry and not detailed enough. The Ragnarock sounds tube like but is so textured and detailed. And when you combine the detail, with the total power of the Ragnarock in balanced/ XLR , the headphones just sound great. And then you combine that sound with a wickedly good dac, the headphones sound intoxicatingly superb.
I have been putting my second headphone station, through its paces. I was quite pleased with the symmetry of the GMB and MJ2, especially with good NOS tubes. However I went back to listen to Frank Zappa's " Sheik YerBouti" on my Yggy and Rag, and was just shocked how great it made my ETHER'S sing. The bass was so powerful, yet masterfully controlled. The bass never muddies up the midds. The bass sounds impactfull and yet so detailed and textured. Likewise the mids are tube like lush, yet remain textured, detailed and transparent. The highs are spot on perfect. The micro detail is ever so revealing without undo brightness. The soundstage is extremely three-dimensionally holographic. So yes I feel you should pull the trigger on the mighty Ragnarock.


----------



## Mediahound

If anyone wants to sell their LISSTs let me know.


----------



## shultzee

One thing I am really digging with the MJ2 is it does a incredible job with Iem's on low gain.  Was quite surprised.


----------



## MattTCG

After being on the fence for the better part of the last few weeks, I finally gave in and ordered the mjo2. Looks like it will be here Thursday. Got some nice tubes on the way also.


----------



## shultzee

matttcg said:


> After being on the fence for the better part of the last few weeks, I finally gave in and ordered the mjo2. Looks like it will be here Thursday. Got some nice tubes on the way also.


 

 I think the mj2 is just a incredible amp with HD 800's.   You definitely have to run the tubes in though.   Don't even listen to it for a few hours or you may be disappointed.     What kind of tubes did you order?


----------



## MattTCG

shultzee said:


> I think the mj2 is just a incredible amp with HD 800's.   You definitely have to run the tubes in though.   Don't even listen to it for a few hours or you may be disappointed.     What kind of tubes did you order?


 
 Philips miniwatt SQ's, gold pin.


----------



## Hardwired

matttcg said:


> Philips miniwatt SQ's, gold pin.


 
  
 I have a set of those, love them. Nice tight bass while maintaining nice mids and top end. YMMV, IMHO, professional driver on a closed course, etc. But nice tubes.


----------



## tuxbass

shultzee said:


> One thing I am really digging with the MJ2 is it does a incredible job with Iem's on low gain.  Was quite surprised.


 
 So true, even my Westone 4Rs are sounding so amazing.
 I went conservative there, started out with the Westone. Saving my best i.e. JH16 (hopefully) for last


----------



## MattTCG

Mjo2 for me possibly today. If I don't miss the fedex guy...


----------



## Zojokkeli

Anyone compared Mjolnir 2 and Lyr 2? Considering getting one of them for my TH900's, as I feel my current amp is a bit of an overkill for my needs.


----------



## money4me247

zojokkeli said:


> Anyone compared Mjolnir 2 and Lyr 2? Considering getting one of them for my TH900's, as I feel my current amp is a bit of an overkill for my needs.




since the th900 is single-ended with non-replaceable cable, i wld say go lyr 2 for it. u will never b able to fullu take advantage of the mjolnir2 w the th900 so kinda a waste of money ithink. if u plan on havin balanced headphones in the future, maybe worthwhile. maybe.


----------



## shultzee

money4me247 said:


> zojokkeli said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone compared Mjolnir 2 and Lyr 2? Considering getting one of them for my TH900's, as I feel my current amp is a bit of an overkill for my needs.
> ...


 

 Kind of disagree.   With the mj 2 you can also go balanced in with a balanced out dac.  You have the gain switch on the front and of course both balanced and se hp outs.
 The ability to run headphones balanced in the future should you want to is huge.  The mj 2 is a heck of a amp for the price .  Great synergy with HD 800's .   You definetley need to upgrade the tubes though.


----------



## crazychile

I've been planning on buying a M2 since it was released. I also have an electrostatic amp with balanced inputs. The builder of the ES amp tells me that it's volume control is completely passive. So my thought was to max the volume on the ES amp and run the bal out from the M2 and use it as a preamp when I want to listen to my electrostatics.
  
 I had also planned on buying a Gumby to use with this system but am in the process of getting the multibit upgrade for my current Bifrost. So the Gumby will have to wait for a while. So I would be running single ended inputs from the Bifrost into the M2, and then the balanced outputs to my ES amp. Has anyone else tried anything like this? I'm more or less wondering about any gain or noise issues using the M2 part time as a preamp. With the ES amp havu=ing a passive volume control I think I should be ok, but looking for feed back that has done something similar to this.
  
 Thanks,


----------



## Zojokkeli

money4me247 said:


> since the th900 is single-ended with non-replaceable cable, i wld say go lyr 2 for it. u will never b able to fullu take advantage of the mjolnir2 w the th900 so kinda a waste of money ithink. if u plan on havin balanced headphones in the future, maybe worthwhile. maybe.


 
  
 I'm definitely considering getting LCD-2 or 3, or maybe HE-1000 in the future, but not soon. Also I've noticed that while TH900 doesn't require gobbles of power to be driven properly, it does scale up nicely.


----------



## Arnotts

shultzee said:


> Kind of disagree.   With the mj 2 you can also go balanced in with a balanced out dac.  You have the gain switch on the front and of course both balanced and se hp outs.
> The ability to run headphones balanced in the future should you want to is huge.  The mj 2 is a heck of a amp for the price .  Great synergy with HD 800's .   You definetley need to upgrade the tubes though.


 

 Can you tell me what you think works well about the HD800's and Mj2? What other amps have you tried them with? Thanks 
  
  


matttcg said:


> Mjo2 for me possibly today. If I don't miss the fedex guy...


 

 I'd love to hear your impressions about the HD800's and Mj2 from you as well, Matt


----------



## MattTCG

arnotts said:


> Can you tell me what you think works well about the HD800's and Mj2? What other amps have you tried them with? Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> I'd love to hear your impressions about the HD800's and Mj2 from you as well, Matt


 
  
 I'm also interested in the pairing between the two. I didn't plan on it working out tbh. I bought the mjo 2 for other headphones but would be pleasantly surprised if it worked with the hd800. The original mjo was not good with the hd800 IMO but hey...this is a new mjo.


----------



## shultzee

arnotts said:


> shultzee said:
> 
> 
> > Kind of disagree.   With the mj 2 you can also go balanced in with a balanced out dac.  You have the gain switch on the front and of course both balanced and se hp outs.
> ...


 
 I have had other high end amps (vio 281,  Woo wa6 se , woo wa7) but not with the hd800.   What I love about the HD800/ mj2 pairing is the tubes take some of the edge off the 800's but you lose none of the detail.  It also has lots of power to spare.  When describing the combo....  detail, depth, incredible sound stage, and dead silent noise wise.  Tube pairing is important however.    Upgrading the stock mj2 tubes is a must. The stock tubes to me sounded pretty bad.


----------



## MattTCG

Any list of desirable tubes at good price points? I have already grabbed a pair of phillips SQ gold pin. But I'll need a backup set.


----------



## shultzee

matttcg said:


> Any list of desirable tubes at good price points? I have already grabbed a pair of phillips SQ gold pin. But I'll need a backup set.


 
  
  
 I got a matched pair of Bel Phillips 6922 from upscale audio     http://www.upscaleaudio.com/bel-e88cc-6922-philips-sq-design/   .  After some run in I am very happy with them .    I may eventually want to try a pair of Telefunkin E88cc or something  similar.  However for now I feel no need to try different tubes.


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks for the info!


----------



## money4me247

shultzee said:


> Kind of disagree. With the mj 2 you can also go balanced in with a balanced out dac.  You have the gain switch on the front and of course both balanced and se hp outs.
> The ability to run headphones balanced in the future should you want to is huge.  The mj 2 is a heck of a amp for the price .  Great synergy with HD 800's .   You definetley need to upgrade the tubes though.


 
 sure, it's a plus if your collection consists of balanced headphones & unbalanced headphones. for someone who owns only one pair of single-ended pair of headphones that requires warranty-breaking mods to make balanced... don't see the point of getting a balanced amplifier if you aren't taking advantage of its balanced design. he also only has a single-ended dacs, so the balanced input of the mjolnir will not be used either.
  
 the price difference between the MJ2 vs Lyr 2 is mostly just having balanced or not. for people with only single-ended gear... you basically buy new cables & new dac to take advantage of the features that warrant the price premium of the MJ2. 
  
 contrary to the usual spend-happy mentality here, I think it's best just to get what you need. You can always trade/sell in the future if you change your mind, but why spend the money now on a feature you will likely not use. the man is looking to sell gear to save money. I had the Lyr 2. An amazing piece of gear that is already crazy overkill for the TH900.
  


matttcg said:


> Mjo2 for me possibly today. If I don't miss the fedex guy...


 
 Can not wait for your impressions!!!! My finger is already on the trigger hahah


----------



## RCBinTN

matttcg said:


> I'm also interested in the pairing between the two. I didn't plan on it working out tbh. I bought the mjo 2 for other headphones but would be pleasantly surprised if it worked with the hd800. The original mjo was not good with the hd800 IMO but hey...this is a new mjo.


 
  
 Agree with the original Mojo - HD800 not working.  Will be interested to hear if the Mojo 2 is better.
 You heard the HD800 with the HDVA600 - at the meet - interested in a comparison.


----------



## zabzaf

rcbintn said:


> Agree with the original Mojo - HD800 not working.  Will be interested to hear if the Mojo 2 is better.
> You heard the HD800 with the HDVA600 - at the meet - interested in a comparison.




Agree as well having owned both. IMO M2/GMB is still a tad bright with the HD 800s. YMMV


----------



## JK-47

zabzaf said:


> Agree as well having owned both. IMO M2/GMB is still a tad bright with the HD 800s. YMMV


 

 What tubes are in your MJ2?


----------



## zabzaf

jk-47 said:


> What tubes are in your MJ2?




Stock at this point.


----------



## JK-47

I've tried the LISST, Russian 6N23P, JAN Philips 6922, Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8, and RFT ECC88. All have different sound signatures, but the smoothest in the top end are the RFT ECC88's made in East Germany.
  
 I haven't tried the stock tubes for comparison, but I'm sure there is something out there that will tame the HD800's down a notch or two. That's most of the fun with tubes, each brand/type has their own flavor they add...


----------



## Shembot

To my ear, the HD800 is absolutely wonderful with the Gungnir MB/Mjolnir 2 pair. I'm using rather aggressive tubes right now ('74 Reflektor SWGP Silver Shields), which are maybe _very slightly _aggressive with the HD800 (though they're perfect for other cans). HD800/GMB/MJ2 has become one of my very favorite combinations. It is indeed slightly bright with a stock HD800, but I personally don't find it to be "too bright".
  
 I found that the stock tubes (with a very balanced sound signature) are absolutely wonderful with the HD800, though. I've heard opinions both ways on the stock tubes, though, so best try with your own ears.


----------



## shultzee

I dont feel the mj 2 adds any brightness to the hd 800.
The hd 800 inherently has the spike in the treble region that everyone knows about. If anything the mj 2 tames that to my ears. Personally the stock tubes sounded pretty bad. I guess we all hear things in a different way. I want all the detail the hd 800's have to offer without any uncomfortable sound in the treble region. To me , the mj2 with good tubes delivers that extremely well.


----------



## MattTCG

Should be picking my amp up in a few hours from the fedex store. Got the NOS tubes ready and waiting.


----------



## shultzee

matttcg said:


> Should be picking my amp up in a few hours from the fedex store. Got the NOS tubes ready and waiting.


 

 Awesome.  Get those tubes burning in.


----------



## czrtly

Hi!
 Congrats on your aquisition, I would be very interested in your opinions on how the MJ2 pairs with the Ethers (closed version would be even better...!) and what tubes you find fitting for this headphone (hope not only the expensive tubes are a match!). I'm interested in MJ2, and while I have an Uber Biffrost I'm still decinding to either upgrade or going for a GMB in the end I'll have a multibit DAC, looking forward to your opinions, enjoy the new toy!
 best regards,
  
 Antonio Rivas


----------



## MattTCG

Well, yesterday I missed the fedex guy...my fault because I couldn't be home in time. So I had the package redirected to the local fedex store for delivery today. Waited ALL day for it to show up there for pickup. The fedex guy usually delivers to the fedex store first thing in the morning. After an hour on the phone I finally got someone who confirmed that the driver missed the package when he was at the fedex store...no schiit. 
  
 Now it will go back to the hub and an attempt to deliver to my house will be made tomorrow. Of course I won't be home. I curse my fate...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





##@!!!


----------



## shultzee

matttcg said:


> Well, yesterday I missed the fedex guy...my fault because I couldn't be home in time. So I had the package redirected to the local fedex store for delivery today. Waited ALL day for it to show up there for pickup. The fedex guy usually delivers to the fedex store first thing in the morning. After an hour on the phone I finally got someone who confirmed that the driver missed the package when he was at the fedex store...no schiit.
> 
> Now it will go back to the hub and an attempt to deliver to my house will be made tomorrow. Of course I won't be home. I curse my fate...
> 
> ...


 

 Ugh, Go back online and redirect to fed ex store..  You've got to get that puppy.


----------



## MattTCG

The eagle has landed.


----------



## elwappo99

matttcg said:


> The eagle has landed.


----------



## MattTCG

I thought I'd share some thoughts along the way as I go through the evaluation process of this amp. First for starters, I set the mjo2 up like this: GMB>schiit pyst RCA cables>mjo2>Ether Open on a single ended cable. For direct comparison I have the Questyle cma800r receiving a single ended set of Kimber IC cables. (mjo with stock tubes and low gain) I let the amp warm for an hour before doing any listening. 
  
 Compared to the Questyle setup as described above, the Questyle is the better amp. Vocals are more fleshed out and mids in general have a more natural tonality. The mjo2 is punchy and dynamic but a little sloppy. What I mean is that localization of instruments is somewhat blurry and unfocused. The soundstage is decent on the mjo2 but more expansive width and depth on the Questyle. Percussion is decent on mjo2. Kick drums hit pretty hard and lifelike, but brush work with a snare drum lacks finesse. On the Questyle the brush work is easily picked out even with complicated pieces. The Que amp has a smooth and extended treble. Violins have an intoxicating timbre that draws me into the music. Comparatively with the mjo 2, the instruments hits the same notes but the refinement just isn't there in the same way as with the Que amp. The bass on the mjo2 is bold and dynamic. Very good extension but a little loose and bloomy tbh. The bass on the Que is tighter and has equal extension on those low notes. 
  
 The Questyle is better by a comfortable margin under these conditions. Please understand that the Questyle is an exceptional solid state amp and runs about $1500. At this juncture and setup in this way, the mjo2 is most reminiscent of the lyr2 (owned it for a year but don't have it anymore). Maybe slightly ahead of the lyr2 but they are very close. 
  
 Next up...50 hours of burn in, switch stock tubes to a nice NOS pair of miniwatts SQ's and going fully balanced.


----------



## shultzee

shembot said:


> To my ear, the HD800 is absolutely wonderful with the Gungnir MB/Mjolnir 2 pair. I'm using rather aggressive tubes right now ('74 Reflektor SWGP Silver Shields), which are maybe _very slightly_ aggressive with the HD800 (though they're perfect for other cans). HD800/GMB/MJ2 has become one of my very favorite combinations. It is indeed slightly bright with a stock HD800, but I personally don't find it to be "too bright".
> 
> I found that the stock tubes (with a very balanced sound signature) are absolutely wonderful with the HD800, though. I've heard opinions both ways on the stock tubes, though, so best try with your own ears.







matttcg said:


> I thought I'd share some thoughts along the way as I go through the evaluation process of this amp. First for starters, I set the mjo2 up like this: GMB>schiit pyst RCA cables>mjo2>Ether Open on a single ended cable. For direct comparison I have the Questyle cma800r receiving a single ended set of Kimber IC cables. (mjo with stock tubes and low gain) I let the amp warm for an hour before doing any listening.
> 
> Compared to the Questyle setup as described above, the Questyle is the better amp. Vocals are more fleshed out and mids in general have a more natural tonality. The mjo2 is punchy and dynamic but a little sloppy. What I mean is that localization of instruments is somewhat blurry and unfocused. The soundstage is decent on the mjo2 but more expansive width and depth on the Questyle. Percussion is decent on mjo2. Kick drums hit pretty hard and lifelike, but brush work with a snare drum lacks finesse. On the Questyle the brush work is easily picked out even with complicated pieces. The Que amp has a smooth and extended treble. Violins have an intoxicating timbre that draws me into the music. Comparatively with the mjo 2, the instruments hits the same notes but the refinement just isn't there in the same way as with the Que amp. The bass on the mjo2 is bold and dynamic. Very good extension but a little loose and bloomy tbh. The bass on the Que is tighter and has equal extension on those low notes.
> 
> ...





You are going to see quite a difference after running the mj 2 for awhile with better tubes.
My initial impression was not unlike yours. I got quite a bit of distortion on lower frequncies with the brand new stock tubes. Also with run in on better tubes the soundstage gained depth quite a bit.


----------



## kevnin

Hi - first post and new mjolnir 2 owner here. I am running with Gumby->Mjolnir 2->HD800. 
  
 I will echo that the mj2 definitely needs a while to burn in. I listened to mine after 30 minutes and it sounded worse than my asgard2 (flatter and brighter). After 4-6 hours it sounded about the same as the a2 and I was starting to get a little worried. I'm new to tubes and not used to burn-in actually making a big difference. But around 10-12 hours it came into its own and I was happy. Now I'm at around 50 hours, have switched to balanced, and am in audio heaven. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 MattTCG - definitely interested to hear what you think with the miniwatts - I'm already eyeing those.
  
  
 shultzee - glad to hear the soundstage can gain depth with better tubes. I gained height after switching to balanced but still don't have much depth. It's the only thing I feel a little missing at this point.


----------



## tuxbass

@MattTCG @shultzee @kevnin When you guys say miniwatts are you referring to these:
 https://www.tubedepot.com/products/philips-miniwatt-sq-e88cc-6922-gold-pin-holland
  
 Excuse me I am n00b when it comes to tubes.


----------



## MattTCG

Those look nice!! Bought mine used for a little cheaper.


----------



## shultzee

tuxbass said:


> @MattTCG @shultzee @kevnin When you guys say miniwatts are you referring to these:
> https://www.tubedepot.com/products/philips-miniwatt-sq-e88cc-6922-gold-pin-holland
> 
> Excuse me I am n00b when it comes to tubes.


 

 Take a look at this option.   These branded Bel are the same internal parts but are priced more reasonable.   http://www.upscaleaudio.com/bel-e88cc-6922-philips-sq-design/    
 I am running them now and they sound very good.


----------



## tuxbass

shultzee said:


> Take a look at this option.   These branded Bel are the same internal parts but are priced more reasonable.   http://www.upscaleaudio.com/bel-e88cc-6922-philips-sq-design/
> I am running them now and they sound very good.


 
 Cool Thanks
 What grade ?


----------



## MattTCG

Ether, hd650 and hd800...all very good on the mjo2. I was surprised at just how good the hd800 pairing was, impressive.


----------



## shultzee

tuxbass said:


> shultzee said:
> 
> 
> > Take a look at this option.   These branded Bel are the same internal parts but are priced more reasonable.   http://www.upscaleaudio.com/bel-e88cc-6922-philips-sq-design/
> ...


 

 Since the mj2 uses tubes on the input side I would only use the premiums IMHO.


----------



## shultzee

matttcg said:


> Ether, hd650 and hd800...all very good on the mjo2. I was surprised at just how good the hd800 pairing was, impressive.


 

 You doubted me.   It is a sleeper amp for the HD800's .  Incredible  with good tubes and some burn in.  And it gets better.   
 I had vilolectrics top amp (v281) , and the Icon HP 8 MK11, which was reported to be a great pairing with the hd 800's  .   I wouldn't trade the mj2 to get either one back.


----------



## MattTCG

shultzee said:


> You doubted me.   It is a sleeper amp for the HD800's .  Incredible  with good tubes and some burn in.  And it gets better.
> I had vilolectrics top amp (v281) , and the Icon HP 8 MK11, which was reported to be a great pairing with the hd 800's  .   I wouldn't trade the mj2 to get either one back.


 
  
 Nope never doubted you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What surprises me is how the mjo2 is able to beat the Questyle cma800r so easily with the hd800.


----------



## jjacq

I have encountered a few times where I could hear some static with my Mjolnir 2 + LCD-X combo using Orange Globes tubes. Is this normal since the X is so sensitive? I honestly do enjoy the X with tubes though, surprisingly.


----------



## elwappo99

Interesting there's a Questyle CMA800r listed in the FS section if anyone else is considering a comparison!


----------



## MattTCG

elwappo99 said:


> Interesting there's a Questyle CMA800r listed in the FS section if anyone else is considering a comparison!


 





...I predict that once the mjo is fully unleashed and people have time to evaluate it, this amp is going to make some serious waves. The performance at the price point is stellar. The Schiit dacs may be getting much of the press these days, but the time is coming for the mjo2.


----------



## shultzee

jjacq said:


> I have encountered a few times where I could hear some static with my Mjolnir 2 + LCD-X combo using Orange Globes tubes. Is this normal since the X is so sensitive? I honestly do enjoy the X with tubes though, surprisingly.


 

 Static isn't normal.   Doubt if it would be the amp.  Try a few different outlets to see if you are picking up noise through your power source.  2 nd , switch back to your stock tubes to see if it is coming from your orange glow tubes (not likely),
 3rd make sure it isn't coming from your source dac/server/laptop, and lastly swap some of your cables if possible.   Personally I find the mj 2 to be dead silent.


----------



## shultzee

matttcg said:


> elwappo99 said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting there's a Questyle CMA800r listed in the FS section if anyone else is considering a comparison!
> ...


 

 Totally agree.   However when you first fire it up with those stock tubes (4.00 ea.) you think I am not so sure.  Then after some burn in time with good tubes you can't get the smile off your face.


----------



## jjacq

shultzee said:


> Static isn't normal.   Doubt if it would be the amp.  Try a few different outlets to see if you are picking up noise through your power source.  2 nd , switch back to your stock tubes to see if it is coming from your orange glow tubes (not likely),
> 3rd make sure it isn't coming from your source dac/server/laptop, and lastly swap some of your cables if possible.   Personally I find the mj 2 to be dead silent.


 
  
 Hm my setup is like this:

 Tripp Lite LC1200 > PC > Gustard U12 > ADCOM GDA700 > Mjolnir 2....

 I do think it might be the cable I'm using because it does run a bit long at 6 ft and it's just a stock one from my printer because I had lost my other cable. Should I get a somewhat decent Amazon or Monoprice one and see if that helps my case?


----------



## shultzee

jjacq said:


> shultzee said:
> 
> 
> > Static isn't normal.   Doubt if it would be the amp.  Try a few different outlets to see if you are picking up noise through your power source.  2 nd , switch back to your stock tubes to see if it is coming from your orange glow tubes (not likely),
> ...






You could throw another cheap usb cable at it to see of the problem goes away before buying a pricier one. I had one go bad after using it for year plugging and unplugging from dac to laptop. On another note I did hear a little distortion on a set of tubes before they were run in. It went away after a few hours.


----------



## kurb1980

I got my Lyr2 on Tuesday to pair with my HE:6's but not enough juice so I upgraded to the mj2 and will go balanced all the way.  Nick T said it will have plenty of power for the HE-6's going balanced but the TRS won't be enough power to drive them.  Good news if you upgrade Schiit waives the restocking fee


----------



## Astral Abyss

kurb1980 said:


> I got my Lyr2 on Tuesday to pair with my HE:6's but not enough juice so I upgraded to the mj2 and will go balanced all the way.  Nick T said it will have plenty of power for the HE-6's going balanced but the TRS won't be enough power to drive them.  Good news if you upgrade Schiit waives the restocking fee


 
 What DAC are you using?


----------



## kurb1980

I have a Benchmark DAC2 HGC and iFI iDSD Micro but I primarily use the Micro to upsample with HQP to DSD256 on my discreet music pc.  I do have some RCA to XLR cables that I might use from the Micro to Mj2 and compare RCA inputs.  But for sure I'm gonna go balanced out of the Mj2.


----------



## Astral Abyss

kurb1980 said:


> I have a Benchmark DAC2 HGC and iFI iDSD Micro but I primarily use the Micro to upsample with HQP to DSD256 on my discreet music pc.  I do have some RCA to XLR cables that I might use from the Micro to Mj2 and compare RCA inputs.  But for sure I'm gonna go balanced out of the Mj2.


 
 Very nice.  Shame you can't use the balanced out of the DAC2 direct into the Mojo2 with that setup.


----------



## kurb1980

Well I think I could the HGC has XLR out but I would have to use female to male XLR cable but then I would have to manage the HGC gain output.  Possible but I don't see myself going down the route thoa.  It will be unbalanced out of the micro into the Mj2 balanced out which is good enough for now since the balanced out on the Mj2 has more juice the TRS output.  Right now I'm more concerned about getting enough power to the HE:6's !


----------



## BobFiggins

matttcg said:


> Well, yesterday I missed the fedex guy...my fault because I couldn't be home in time. So I had the package redirected to the local fedex store for delivery today. Waited ALL day for it to show up there for pickup. The fedex guy usually delivers to the fedex store first thing in the morning. After an hour on the phone I finally got someone who confirmed that the driver missed the package when he was at the fedex store...no schiit.
> 
> Now it will go back to the hub and an attempt to deliver to my house will be made tomorrow. Of course I won't be home. I curse my fate...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Exact same thing happened with my HD 800, with the exception it was USPS, and they said the package was lost. After 2 hours of them on the phone while I waited in there pacing back and forth, they were able to locate it and I had to drive across town to another USPS branch.
  
 Whenever I order something crappy, always shows up with no issue. Soon as I put some good money into it, issues. Either bad luck or just a lack of noticing the trouble a crappy package goes through. Probably a combination of both.


----------



## MattTCG

bobfiggins said:


> Exact same thing happened with my HD 800, with the exception it was USPS, and they said the package was lost. After 2 hours of them on the phone while I waited in there pacing back and forth, they were able to locate it and I had to drive across town to another USPS branch.
> 
> Whenever I order something crappy, always shows up with no issue. Soon as I put some good money into it, issues. Either bad luck or just a lack of noticing the trouble a crappy package goes through. Probably a combination of both.


 
  
 Yup, I know the feeling. I did finally get the package and my amp at almost 9:00 that night. But I will not be using fedex again, ever. I must have made 10 phone calls. Got hung up on twice. One girl told me it was due until the next because I had it sent to the fedex store instead of my home. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That made me mad. Then one guy who seems to actually be trying to help said it was at the hub across town. I check on line and indeed it said delivered to that address. I jumped in the car and drove 40 minutes over there and guess what? If wasn't there. It was in fact delivered to the original fedex location on the opposite side of town. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...ugh.


----------



## reddog

matttcg said:


> Yup, I know the feeling. I did finally get the package and my amp at almost 9:00 that night. But I will not be using fedex again, ever. I must have made 10 phone calls. Got hung up on twice. One girl told me it was due until the next because I had it sent to the fedex store instead of my home. :veryevil:  That made me mad. Then one guy who seems to actually be trying to help said it was at the hub across town. I check on line and indeed it said delivered to that address. I jumped in the car and drove 40 minutes over there and guess what? If wasn't there. It was in fact delivered to the original fedex location on the opposite side of town. :angry_face: ...ugh.



I do not like fedex either, they delivered my Asgard 2, to the wrong house, in the rain. When the driver finally, delivered it, the box was wet, but do to Schiit Audio's excellent workers, the amp was in a thick plastic bag, and was not wet or damaged.


----------



## BobFiggins

All this talk about how bad Fedex is, and they have my A6 on the trucks right now. Eeek!


----------



## elwappo99

matttcg said:


> elwappo99 said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting there's a Questyle CMA800r listed in the FS section if anyone else is considering a comparison!
> ...


 
  
 Glad you're enjoying! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Have anything running balanced to compare balanced vs SE? 
  
 I think I might jump from the carbon preorder to the Mjolnir2. Still haven't found a lot of good impressions though, but a few say they're pretty close.


----------



## MattTCG

elwappo99 said:


> Glad you're enjoying!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I've heard the LC twice now at meets and got to spend a couple of hours with it recently in Nashville. The only reason that I'd go with the LC would be if I needed a smaller amp or transportable. But for desktop amp there isn't anything that the mjo 2 doesn't do better IMO. The mjo2 is slightly more expensive but I don't feel that it's a high price to pay for an amp that performs better than many $1500 amps that I've owned. 
  
 Still waiting on some burn in time to make a more detailed review.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

matttcg said:


> I've heard the LC twice now at meets and got to spend a couple of hours with it recently in Nashville. The only reason that I'd go with the LC would be if I needed a smaller amp or transportable. But for desktop amp there isn't anything that the mjo 2 doesn't do better IMO. The mjo2 is slightly more expensive but I don't feel that it's a high price to pay for an amp that performs better than many $1500 amps that I've owned.
> 
> Still waiting on some burn in time to make a more detailed review.


 
  
 I am trying to decide between Multibifrost/Valhalla2 and Multigungnir/Mjolnir2 for HD650/800. Early impressions of MJO2 with the Senns?


----------



## raybone0566

matttcg said:


> I've heard the LC twice now at meets and got to spend a couple of hours with it recently in Nashville. The only reason that I'd go with the LC would be if I needed a smaller amp or transportable. But for desktop amp there isn't anything that the mjo 2 doesn't do better IMO. The mjo2 is slightly more expensive but I don't feel that it's a high price to pay for an amp that performs better than many $1500 amps that I've owned.
> 
> Still waiting on some burn in time to make a more detailed review.


matt, I like to hear what you think when you pair mj2 with your hd800's


----------



## MattTCG

vhsownsbeta said:


>


 
  
  


raybone0566 said:


> matt, I like to hear what you think when you pair mj2 with your hd800's


 
  
 TBH I'm a little surprised at how good the mjo2 is with the hd800. I didn't really care for the orginal mjo with the hd800. The mjo2 is a completely different story. There are few amps that can bring out the warmth and bass of the hd800 and still not muck up that wonderful extension up top. The mjo2 is able to do just that. The bass bumps nice and tight and is in no way shy...puts a big smile on my face with EDM. Mids are sweet and natural with female vocals being produced in a very engaging manner. 
  
 This is the best sub $1k amp that I've come across that does the hd800 this well. I need more time to evaluate and put this all in perspective. Most amps that can pull off what the refinement and power that pairs well with the 800 are pretty special and have a much higher price tag.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

matttcg said:


> TBH I'm a little surprised at how good the mjo2 is with the hd800. I didn't really care for the orginal mjo with the hd800. The mjo2 is a completely different story. There are few amps that can bring out the warmth and bass of the hd800 and still not muck up that wonderful extension up top. The mjo2 is able to do just that. The bass bumps nice and tight and is in no way shy...puts a big smile on my face with EDM. Mids are sweet and natural with female vocals being produced in a very engaging manner.
> 
> This is the best sub $1k amp that I've come across that does the hd800 this well. I need more time to evaluate and put this all in perspective. Most amps that can pull off what the refinement and power that pairs well with the 800 are pretty special and have a much higher price tag.


 

 Thanks. Valhalla's synergy with HD800 is pretty well documented. It seems like a pretty specific amp though, high-z senns/beyers need only apply. It would be a stretch for me to go Mjolnir2 but it seems to potentially be more versatile. How do you find it with Ether or other planars?


----------



## shultzee

matttcg said:


> vhsownsbeta said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 

 I totally agree.  But it takes good tubes to really shine.    I'll bet the guys at Schitt that redesigned from the Mjo to the Mjo2 tried it with the HD 800's and said oops we have something special here.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

shultzee said:


> I totally agree.  But it takes good tubes to really shine.    I'll bet the guys at Schitt that redesigned from the Mjo to the Mjo2 tried it with the HD 800's and said oops we have something special here.


 

 Thanks. Out of interest, what are your impressions of Mjolnir with your V6?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

My only hesitation to pulling the trigger on MJ2 is that the Rag has outputs for K1K and WOO WEE, both of which I'm looking at very carefully. Is there a situation in which anyone could justify both amplifiers? Rag is so good that if I were going to invest in tubes I would sort of prefer to go with something completely different like the WA22, though naturally MJ2 is half the price...


----------



## shultzee

vhsownsbeta said:


> shultzee said:
> 
> 
> > I totally agree.  But it takes good tubes to really shine.    I'll bet the guys at Schitt that redesigned from the Mjo to the Mjo2 tried it with the HD 800's and said oops we have something special here.
> ...


 

 That was one of the surprising things to me.   They pair very well.  Nice having the gain switch on the front panel.  You can drop the gain from 8 to 1 for iems.


----------



## RCBinTN

matttcg said:


> Ether, hd650 and hd800...all very good on the mjo2. I was surprised at just how good the hd800 pairing was, impressive.


 
  
 Great to hear, Matt.  Not easy to drive the HD800 in a respectable manner.  Now comes the tube rolling...


----------



## RCBinTN

Matt - is the Mojo2 beating what you heard from the HDVA600 at the meet?


----------



## fantom789

vhsownsbeta said:


> Thanks. Valhalla's synergy with HD800 is pretty well documented. It seems like a pretty specific amp though, high-z senns/beyers need only apply. It would be a stretch for me to go Mjolnir2 but it seems to potentially be more versatile. How do you find it with Ether or other planars?


 
 I have mj2 with Mr Speakes Alpha Prime running balanced and love it!  On paper those shouldn't require too much power, but after hearing them with a few amps, the power and clarity of the mj2 is incredible and is a must to bring out the best in the Primes.  For comparison, the LCD-XC are less drastically different going from any decent amp to mj2, though still detailed enough to enjoy amp upgrades.
  
 SE out is no slouch either so it's nice to have that versatility, but with 4x the power and less parts in the signal path, balanced is definitely better sounding (cleaner overall with punchier bass).
  
 Started with LISST briefly, then moved to stock tubes.  Tubes offered more character to the bass (fatter without being bloated maybe?), but ultimately I found bass punch to be lacking and highs to be a bit fatiguing.  I recently switched back to the LISST and the highs are detailed but never fatiguing and the bass punches great.  I find the Primes to be a tad darker than other cans (also highly dependent on how you wear them on your ears more so than any other headphone I've heard), so the analytical highs of the LISST work great.  And again, I never find the detailed highs harsh in any way.
  
 I don't have better tubes yet and am currently debating if it's worth exploring since I'm already so happy with the mj2 LISST + balanced Prime combo.


----------



## MattTCG

rcbintn said:


> Matt - is the Mojo2 beating what you heard from the HDVA600 at the meet?


Yup. For sure.


----------



## RCBinTN

matttcg said:


> Yup. For sure.


 
  
 In what way, if I might ask?


----------



## tuxbass

Last night I was comparing the LCD-3 and ETHER both connected balanced to MJ2. The ETHER sounded very impressive with greater detail, airy-ness and soundstage (compared to LCD-3)
 But I won't be using the ETHER at home, it's for my work setup. If I want to improve the soundstage and airy-ness of LCD-3, what should I be doing. I know the DAC (DACMagic Plus) is the weakest link in my chain, but my question to the experts is: 
  
   1. Should I upgrade my DAC to get what I am looking to improve on the LCD-3 or
   2. Should I be replacing the tubes, if so which ones.
  
 All suggestions are welcome and appreciated.


----------



## money4me247

tuxbass said:


> Last night I was comparing the LCD-3 and ETHER both connected balanced to MJ2. The ETHER sounded very impressive with greater detail, airy-ness and soundstage (compared to LCD-3)
> But I won't be using the ETHER at home, it's for my work setup. If I want to improve the soundstage and airy-ness of LCD-3, what should I be doing. I know the DAC (DACMagic Plus) is the weakest link in my chain, but my question to the experts is:
> 
> 1. Should I upgrade my DAC to get what I am looking to improve on the LCD-3 or
> ...


 
 depends on your budget. I would say that the majority of mid-tier sub-$1k dacs seem to play at around the same level. likely would be looking to spend $1k or more on your dac upgrade.
  
 with tubes, you can get inexpensive tubes that would be $50 or less per each. very nice tubes would be $100-$200+ per tube. apparently, different tubes will have different subtle properties with different amplifiers. for me, I played with some $50-$100 (per tube) high-recommended tubes and didn't find the difference to be very significant.
  
 so I personally would go for the dac upgrade, but at the end of the day I think it just depends on your budget. for tubes, I wouldn't get too crazy purchasing too many different high-end tubes. If you end up spending too much, you might as well have gone for a more expensive amplifier in the first place (imo).


----------



## MattTCG

tuxbass said:


> Last night I was comparing the LCD-3 and ETHER both connected balanced to MJ2. The ETHER sounded very impressive with greater detail, airy-ness and soundstage (compared to LCD-3)
> But I won't be using the ETHER at home, it's for my work setup. If I want to improve the soundstage and airy-ness of LCD-3, what should I be doing. I know the DAC (DACMagic Plus) is the weakest link in my chain, but my question to the experts is:
> 
> 1. Should I upgrade my DAC to get what I am looking to improve on the LCD-3 or
> ...


 
  
 +1 on the dac upgrade. I'm not seeing huge differences in decent and somewhat expensive tubes with this amp so far.


----------



## reddog

tuxbass said:


> Last night I was comparing the LCD-3 and ETHER both connected balanced to MJ2. The ETHER sounded very impressive with greater detail, airy-ness and soundstage (compared to LCD-3)
> But I won't be using the ETHER at home, it's for my work setup. If I want to improve the soundstage and airy-ness of LCD-3, what should I be doing. I know the DAC (DACMagic Plus) is the weakest link in my chain, but my question to the experts is:
> 
> 1. Should I upgrade my DAC to get what I am looking to improve on the LCD-3 or
> ...



I would go for a good dac . I never placed much credence to dacs till I got myself a Yggdrasil. I am still shocked how much better the music sounds with my Yggdrasil. My ETHER'S never sounded better when being powered by my Yggdrasil/ Ragnarock.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ THIS...when you get to totl headphones, everything in the chain will matter more. The GUMBY made way more difference with the Ether and hd800 than I could have imagined.


----------



## RCBinTN

tuxbass said:


> Last night I was comparing the LCD-3 and ETHER both connected balanced to MJ2. The ETHER sounded very impressive with greater detail, airy-ness and soundstage (compared to LCD-3)
> But I won't be using the ETHER at home, it's for my work setup. If I want to improve the soundstage and airy-ness of LCD-3, what should I be doing. I know the DAC (DACMagic Plus) is the weakest link in my chain, but my question to the experts is:
> 
> 1. Should I upgrade my DAC to get what I am looking to improve on the LCD-3 or
> ...


 
  
 One thing to remember is those HP's have quite a bit different impedance.  It's more difficult to drive the LCD-3 than the Ether.  So, it's not easy to perform an A/B unless you compensate for that difference.  Don't be afraid to turn up the amp so the LCD-3 get a fair shot.  The Ether's sound sweet with almost no volume, but the LCD-3 sound sweet at the proper volume.  Enjoy!!


----------



## tuxbass

@money4me247 @MattTCG @reddog Thanks all for the great input.
 I am glad you all agreed on the same thing 
  
  
 My reasoning behind getting the HPs and Amp first is based on my understanding on upgrades. Which was mentioned somewhere in these forums as:
  
 Headphones >> Amp > DAC >>>>> Cables
  
 (or something along those lines)
 So my understanding was that the DACs made the smallest difference in the chain. Based on what you guys say it looks like my wallet is in for another big hit soonish


----------



## tuxbass

rcbintn said:


> One thing to remember is those HP's have quite a bit different impedance.  It's more difficult to drive the LCD-3 than the Ether.  So, it's not easy to perform an A/B unless you compensate for that difference.  Don't be afraid to turn up the amp so the LCD-3 get a fair shot.  The Ether's sound sweet with almost no volume, but the LCD-3 sound sweet at the proper volume.  Enjoy!!


 
 Very true. This actually made my comparison very hard, since I don't like to hear at volume levels that are too loud. So when I set the ETHERs to the max volume that I can tolerate, it was hard to match the volume on the LCD-3 and still keep it below the levels that are acceptable to me. If that made any sense.
  
 I'll give it another shot tonight.


----------



## reddog

tuxbass said:


> @money4me247
> @MattTCG
> @reddog
> Thanks all for the great input.
> ...



At at least once you complete your rig, you can turn up the volume and drown out the sobbing lamentations of your freshly drained wallet


----------



## tuxbass

reddog said:


> At at least once you complete your rig, you can turn up the volume and drown out the sobbing lamentations of your freshly drained wallet


 
 I like the way you think


----------



## money4me247

tuxbass said:


> @money4me247 @MattTCG @reddog Thanks all for the great input.
> I am glad you all agreed on the same thing
> 
> My reasoning behind getting the HPs and Amp first is based on my understanding on upgrades. Which was mentioned somewhere in these forums as:
> ...


 
 I think you are right (from my experience) with that type of ranking. However, I do think that tubes make an even smaller relative difference hahaha. probably much more than cables though. the issue is a lot of times, for the price of a matched set of really premium tubes, you can upgrade your headphone or amplifier to the next tier. A lot of times with tubes, it is flavor preferences too I think rather than one being definitely superior. I think it is possible to find a lot of solid cheap gems, but once word gets out, the tube prices jump up.
  
 That's is why I think a dac upgrade is more worthwhile. From my dac upgrading, I think going for the gumby would be the most worthwhile upgrade. No need to go much more expensive from my experience.


----------



## tuxbass

money4me247 said:


> I think you are right (from my experience) with that type of ranking. However, I do think that tubes make an even smaller relative difference hahaha. probably much more than cables though. the issue is a lot of times, for the price of a matched set of really premium tubes, you can upgrade your headphone or amplifier to the next tier. A lot of times with tubes, it is flavor preferences too I think rather than one being definitely superior. I think it is possible to find a lot of solid cheap gems, but once word gets out, the tube prices jump up.
> 
> That's is why I think a dac upgrade is more worthwhile. From my dac upgrading, I think going for the gumby would be the most worthwhile upgrade. No need to go much more expensive from my experience.


 
 Cool, the gumby is what I was thinking too.
 As for the tubes, I had them somewhere between the DAC and Cables, something like this:
  
 Headphones >> Amp > DAC > Tubes >>>> Cables
  
 I agree with your observations on tubes. Being a tube n00b it might not be a worthwhile exercise for me (i might end up spending on the wrong thing )


----------



## RCBinTN

tuxbass said:


> Very true. This actually made my comparison very hard, since I don't like to hear at volume levels that are too loud. So when I set the ETHERs to the max volume that I can tolerate, it was hard to match the volume on the LCD-3 and still keep it below the levels that are acceptable to me. If that made any sense.
> 
> I'll give it another shot tonight.


 
  
 One more thought on the A/B comparison (after reading Tyll's recent analysis on InnerFidelity), I have tried to perform A/B comparisons in the past, and usually wound up confused.  The better method, IMO, is to give both A and B a significant amount of listening time...to let your body and especially your brain to fully adjust / appreciate both A and B options.  For example, when I switch immediately from my HD800 to my LCD-X, the X sound dark and unresolving.  Of course, they aren't...it's just that my brain has gotten used to the brighter HD800 sound.  When I switch the other direction, the HD800 sound thin and tinny.  Of course, they aren't.  Just a thought...


----------



## deadie

rcbintn said:


> ...For example, when I switch immediately from my HD800 to my LCD-X, the X sound dark and unresolving.  Of course, they aren't...it's just that my brain has gotten used to the brighter HD800 sound.  When I switch the other direction, the HD800 sound thin and tinny.  Of course, they aren't.  Just a thought...


 
  
 My experience exactly matches this with the 800 & X. So much so, I just don't listen to the cans on the same day.  My brain needs to reset and start from scratch, listening and appreciating each on its own absolute merits.
  
 Received my MJ2 on Friday, very much enjoying it thus far with stock tubes.  I feed it with a Chord Hugo, sometimes going into my vintage McIntosh preamp for EQ, sometimes straight to MJ2.  Abundant power, impressive realism, nicely black between notes, and sufficiently retains the musicality of the Hugo.    
  
 I'm finding I enjoy the LCD-X pairing more, at least in these early days.  The HD-800 still sounds a bit too peaky, shouty.  Injecting the Mc preamp helps, but still doesn't get me the rounder sound / synergy pairing of the GSX-X, Aurelic Taurus, Liquid Gold, or the MHA-100.
  
 I don't like the UERM pairing with MJ2.  Too sensitive, abundant tube "whooshing" (low/high gain same whooshing volume, also microphonic) and the sound is just... kinda flat.  But no matter, it's not my IEM amp. 
  
 I'm really enjoying the X (balanced WyWire Red) with MJ2, I find myself "stopping multitasking" and just zoning out, uttering a "whoa" here and there with its real / live presentation.  I love the sound of the X straight out of the Hugo and the MJ2 just gives it more live music weight / impact.
  
 MJ2 is my return to Schiit amps, I was pretty turned off by Lyr1 - powerful, but flat sound, unrefined.  Went through a few pairs of tubes too.  I shied away from Lyr2 and Mjolnir1, but took the plunge on MJ2 b/c the of helpful / insightful comments in this thread.  
  
 I'm kinda now wondering / jonesing for Rag, but am unsure what AQ increments it presents and what more power would necessarily bring to the party.  I'd also be giving up tubes.  I'll probably wait.  We all know Jason's gotta be scheming in his lab on Rag2 -- some monoblock beast, swappable SS and glass tubes...


----------



## tuxbass

rcbintn said:


> One more thought on the A/B comparison (after reading Tyll's recent analysis on InnerFidelity), I have tried to perform A/B comparisons in the past, and usually wound up confused.  The better method, IMO, is to give both A and B a significant amount of listening time...to let your body and especially your brain to fully adjust / appreciate both A and B options.  For example, when I switch immediately from my HD800 to my LCD-X, the X sound dark and unresolving.  Of course, they aren't...it's just that my brain has gotten used to the brighter HD800 sound.  When I switch the other direction, the HD800 sound thin and tinny.  Of course, they aren't.  Just a thought...


 
 It's funny/interesting you brought up Tyll's article.
 I was going to A/B them again last night. But I happened to read Tyll's article before that and I decided to just listen to the ETHER the rest of the night . I might pick the LCD-3 today and see how that goes ...
  
 I agree with the A/B comparisons leading to flawed observations. For me it usually ends up being frustrating and makes the whole experience unenjoyable.


----------



## chowyeung

Hi everyone,
 Could anyone confirm whether plugging in a headphone on MJ2 would automatically mute the preamp output?
 Many thanks in advance.
 Cheers


----------



## zabzaf

chowyeung said:


> Hi everyone,
> Could anyone confirm whether plugging in a headphone on MJ2 would automatically mute the preamp output?
> Many thanks in advance.
> Cheers




No it does not mute the preamp outs.


----------



## chowyeung

zabzaf said:


> No it does not mute the preamp outs.


 
  
 Many thanks for your prompt reply!


----------



## Oklahoma

zabzaf said:


> No it does not mute the preamp outs.




It should I believe. Schiit has said plugging in headphones should mute the preamp outs on their amps. Otherwise it would defeat the purpose of the preamp outs. I use them with my lyr2 and powered monitors and they mute when plugging in headphones, I would hate to have to power off my monitors every time I plug in my headphones so I don't have sound bleed from my speakers and open headphones. If yours doesn't mute the preamp outs I would check with schiit on it.


----------



## tuxbass

oklahoma said:


> It should I believe. Schiit has said plugging in headphones should mute the preamp outs on their amps. Otherwise it would defeat the purpose of the preamp outs. I use them with my lyr2 and powered monitors and they mute when plugging in headphones, I would hate to have to power off my monitors every time I plug in my headphones so I don't have sound bleed from my speakers and open headphones. If yours doesn't mute the preamp outs I would check with schiit on it.


 
 I don't think it mutes the preamp outs. At least it doesn't on mine. I found that annoying too.
 I got around that problem by using SYS (although SYS serves more than 1 purpose for me).


----------



## Trastan

tuxbass said:


> I don't think it mutes the preamp outs. At least it doesn't on mine. I found that annoying too.
> I got around that problem by using SYS (although SYS serves more than 1 purpose for me).


 
 It does not, and, from what I understand, that's by design. I don't really understand it, but that's how it is, I guess. That's a feature that I enjoy and use regularly on my Asgard 2.


----------



## tuxbass

trastan said:


> It does not, and, from what I understand, that's by design. I don't really understand it, but that's how it is, I guess. That's a feature that I enjoy and use regularly on my Asgard 2.


 
 Correct, that's my understanding too i.e. it's by design.
 Hence I didn't fight it, just figured out a way to workaround it.


----------



## zabzaf

I noticed this first with my M1. M2 does not mute either.


----------



## theblueprint

The lack of muting must be from something inherent within the cyclotron architecture that makes it difficult to implement. It's probably why the Ragnarok needed some alien high tech supercomputer brain.


----------



## Oklahoma

Interesting. Might be interesting to find out why it doesn't mute them. I have been considering the mj2 or the rag as a later upgrade to my lyr2 and that is one feature that is almost a deal breaker in my setup as the power switches for my monitors are on the back and a pain in the *** to get to.


----------



## RCBinTN

tuxbass said:


> It's funny/interesting you brought up Tyll's article.
> I was going to A/B them again last night. But I happened to read Tyll's article before that and I decided to just listen to the ETHER the rest of the night . I might pick the LCD-3 today and see how that goes ...
> 
> I agree with the A/B comparisons leading to flawed observations. For me it usually ends up being frustrating and makes the whole experience unenjoyable.


 
  
 I agree with Deadie that I won't listen to both cans on the same day...takes that long for my head to readjust.  YMMV.  My guess is your LCD-3 sounded great the next day .


----------



## shultzee

Had a LCD-x and a AKG 812 pro at the same time and had the same thing.   Would choose one or the other for that evening.  Otherwise the 812 would sound to thin or the lcd-x to thick.   Crazy.


----------



## tuxbass

rcbintn said:


> I agree with Deadie that I won't listen to both cans on the same day...takes that long for my head to readjust.  YMMV.  My guess is your LCD-3 sounded great the next day .


 
 Haha it sorta did 
 The best part was that I was able to enjoy my music both days with both the headphones. Without being stressed out while listening (which completely defeats the purpose of assembling this gear in the first place).


----------



## chowyeung

oklahoma said:


> It should I believe. Schiit has said plugging in headphones should mute the preamp outs on their amps. Otherwise it would defeat the purpose of the preamp outs. I use them with my lyr2 and powered monitors and they mute when plugging in headphones, I would hate to have to power off my monitors every time I plug in my headphones so I don't have sound bleed from my speakers and open headphones. If yours doesn't mute the preamp outs I would check with schiit on it.


 
  
 I was seriously considering MJ2, thinking to take it as both headamp and preamp in my setup. But now the choice is no longer obvious to me. I also find it a bit inconvenient to switch off my powered monitors every time when I use headphone because the power on/off buttons of my monitors are located at the rear of the monitors. 
 If the preamp outs cannot be automatically muted, why not adding a switch and letting users select the output?


----------



## Mediahound

chowyeung said:


> I was seriously considering MJ2, thinking to take it as both headamp and preamp in my setup. But now the choice is no longer obvious to me. I also find it a bit inconvenient to switch off my powered monitors every time when I use headphone because the power on/off buttons of my monitors are located at the rear of the monitors.
> If the preamp outs cannot be automatically muted, why not adding a switch and letting users select the output?


 

 You can put a cheap AC remote control on your monitors to power them off using a remote. That's what I did, works fine.


----------



## chowyeung

mediahound said:


> You can put a cheap AC remote control on your monitors to power them off using a remote. That's what I did, works fine.


 
  
 Yes, it's one solution of the issue. If I eventually buy MJ2, I think this is also what I am going to do.
  
 I remember when the first generation of MJ hit the market, this issue was also a concern for many users. I thought Schiit might have tackled the issue in MJ2. I am quite disappointed to learn that the same issue persists.
 If that is by design, then the design does not respond to the need of those who will take MJ2 also as a preamp.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Argo Duck

^ I don't recall Jason's explanations about this design point but it may be part of their goal of "best value for money".

And...Schiit have no evil plan to dominate the market with their product which is why - as I understand it - they willingly point potential purchasers to other manufacturers if Schiit's own products don't "respond to the[ir] need". Take a look at Jason's thread about the company if you haven't already - well worth reading.

No doubt Schiit have other evil plans but being all things to all people is not one of them :evil:


----------



## Arnotts

My Mjolnir 2 arrived today. Signal chain is PC > Wyrd > Gungnir Multi Bit > Mjolnir 2

 I won't say too much just yet because it's only been running for about 2 hours. Started off using it as a balanced pre-amp to my EVE SC205 monitors. It was harsh initially, but is quickly settling down.

 The only headphones I've tried so far are HD800's. Very lightly Anax modded (only the foam trapezoid has been applied). Normally I use some form of EQ with the GMB > Valhalla 2 > HD800's, but for comparisons sake I've turned off all EQ.

 The MJ2 is engaging as hell, for sure - I finally understand what people mean when they say that about the Mjolnir. This thing is so dynamic and lively. With the stock tubes, you can actually use stock HD800's and have a listenable experience. It's not perfect, the HD800's are still inherently bright and have that 6k peak, but it's not so ******* grating that I immediately have to turn EQ on. I'm still enjoying the sound immensely 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. My immediate reaction is that it's certainly an upgrade from the Val2 for the HD800's.

 It'll be interesting to see how this combo drives the LCD-X's in comparison to the Senn's.

 Eventually I'll get around to properly comparing it with the Valhalla 2 for the HD800's/HD650's.


----------



## money4me247

I tested the M2 and it outputs volume on all its outputs (preamp SE, headphone balanced, and headphone SE) at the same time. I don't have any speakers with balanced inputs.
  
 if needs a selector for speakers only vs headphones only vs speakers & headphones, I believe the ragnarok offers this feature set.


----------



## Arnotts

I've never heard (almost) stock, un-equalized HD800's sound so engaging and musical. Of course, the entire signal chain deserves the credit here, but the MJ2 seems to have been the final piece of the puzzle.
  
 I'll put the proper EQ back on eventually, but I legitimately don't have any urge to deviate right now. Sounds sublime.


----------



## shultzee

arnotts said:


> My Mjolnir 2 arrived today. Signal chain is PC > Wyrd > Gungnir Multi Bit > Mjolnir 2
> 
> I won't say too much just yet because it's only been running for about 2 hours. Started off using it as a balanced pre-amp to my EVE SC205 monitors. It was harsh initially, but is quickly settling down.
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats.  It seriously gets better after some burn in time on the tubes/amp.


----------



## ziis

matttcg said:


> Ether, hd650 and hd800...all very good on the mjo2. I was surprised at just how good the hd800 pairing was, impressive.


 
 With miniwatts? What kind of music are you listening to?


----------



## deadie

shultzee said:


> Congrats.  It seriously gets better after some burn in time on the tubes/amp.


 
  
 I've been running my MJ2 almost non-stop since receiving it Friday, and found the bass quality definitely improved -- hits harder, is tight, and sufficiently deep.
  
 I have my Hugo going through my McIntosh preamp for EQ, then to MJ2, and have dialed back both low/high freqs.


----------



## ruffra

shultzee said:


> Congrats.  It seriously gets better after some burn in time on the tubes/amp.


 
 Just Burning in my MJ2 since Friday but only part time.  I've changed stock tubes initially for Russian spec 70's 6N23P and then Mullard CV2492  from the 60's. Its a fantastically detailed amp with amazing dynamics and great bass impact but the mid band is still quite aggressive with my LCD-XC's. How long is a reasonable burn in period before real improvements are expected ???  My Musical Fidelity MX-HPA was good to go only after a few hours!!! Just asking LOL


----------



## shultzee

You are probably there.   


ruffra said:


> shultzee said:
> 
> 
> > Congrats.  It seriously gets better after some burn in time on the tubes/amp.
> ...


 

 You are probably there.  I don't know your tubes so maybe they are inherent to a strong mid range.  rb2013  here would know.  May have to dial a little bit of it out with equalizer and you shouldn't lose any detail.


----------



## ruffra

shultzee said:


> You are probably there.
> 
> You are probably there.  I don't know your tubes so maybe they are inherent to a strong mid range.  rb2013  here would know.  May have to dial a little bit of it out with equalizer and you shouldn't lose any detail.


 
 Thanks for reply unfortunately my main system is not equipped with EQ facilities.The digital files are stored on a hard disk which is connected directly via usb to the streamer and then via a DAC to the Amp and then Amp to MJ2. I will give it a few more bursts over the next few days and see if it helps.  I didn't think from the HeadFi comments the MJ2 was inherently forward sounding so hopefully its still trying to settle down.
 The valves are all detailed sounding types but not known to be peaky in the midband. It is mainly with vocals that I hear the aggressiveness so hopefully this is a burn in issue as its a great amp otherwise.


----------



## shultzee

ruffra said:


> shultzee said:
> 
> 
> > You are probably there.
> ...


 

 Upscale audio describes the cv2492's (Ediswan) this  way  "Virtually unfindable in the U.S. Stunning midrange texture while maintaining top and bottom end extension" .   He definitely mentions the midrange texture.   More burn in can't hurt.  I don't find my mj2 to be aggressive in the mid band.   Other's will have to chime in.


----------



## ruffra

shultzee said:


> Upscale audio describes the cv2492's (Ediswan) this  way  "Virtually unfindable in the U.S. Stunning midrange texture while maintaining top and bottom end extension" .   He definitely mentions the midrange texture.   More burn in can't hurt.  I don't find my mj2 to be aggressive in the mid band.   Other's will have to chime in.


 
 Yes the midrange is very textured and detailed . The Mullard variety more so than the Brimar Ediswan manufacture (which I have a set somewhere as well!!) but also more "sweet" in its  tonality. They are quite Microphonic though but you can't have everything LOL. I will stick with them for a bit longer as mostly the dynamic are great and the amp only gets quite aggressive when music crescendos. I dont think its anything to do with the rest of the equipment as it was all fine before installing the MJ2 .
 I have notice in another Headfi thread regarding the LYR that someone switched from Ediswan valves backed to stock as they were more relaxed in his opinion. I think I will try for a few more days and them see how the stock supplied valves are if no joy. Thanks again for your replies


----------



## LFC_SL

Anyone compared Mjolnir 2 with Bryston BHA-1? Ta


----------



## ziis

Does this Siemens Halske CCa look real? Doesn't it look too shiny for a 1962 vintage?
  
 https://tubedepot.com/products/siemens-halske-cca


----------



## shultzee

ziis said:


> Does this Siemens Halske CCa look real? Doesn't it look too shiny for a 1962 vintage?
> 
> https://tubedepot.com/products/siemens-halske-cca


 

 Tube Depot is pretty reputable.  Doubt if they are fake but that is a crazy price.  Two tubes would buy you a mjolnir 2 .


----------



## rb2013

shultzee said:


> You are probably there.
> 
> You are probably there.  I don't know your tubes so maybe they are inherent to a strong mid range.  rb2013  here would know.  May have to dial a little bit of it out with equalizer and you shouldn't lose any detail.


 
 I would expect the burnin on the MJ2 to be in the 100-150 hr range.  This is for the caps and other components to burnin.  The tubes will take about the same.  My experience with the Russian tubes is they take a bit longer - and get smoother and more refined out past 200 hrs.
  
 You can accelerate the process a bit using the Isotek burnin disc. Which they say has other benefits - like demag the resistors.  It produces a full frequency spread and various dynamic bursts.
  
 http://www.musicdirect.com/p-3521-isotek-full-system-enhancer-burn-in-cd.aspx
 http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/isotek/cd.html
  
 I use this disc in combination with a variety of music.


----------



## shultzee

rb2013 said:


> shultzee said:
> 
> 
> > You are probably there.
> ...


 

 Good info.  Thanks RB.


----------



## Arnotts

Put the LISSTs into the MJ2 earlier today.
  
 It's been fascinating listening to the sound change over time as the LISSTs burn in/warm up. It started off quite harsh, with the treble lacking a lot of detail due to the aggressive, smeared, harsh sound. It's been getting better and better over time, and the differences are not subtle!
  
 It'll be very interesting comparing how the HD800's sound from the solid state Mojo 2 compared to the tube Mojo 2, when both are properly warmed up and/or burned in. I get the feeling the tubes are slightly more resolving, but it's too early to call it properly yet.


----------



## ruffra

rb2013 said:


> I would expect the burnin on the MJ2 to be in the 100-150 hr range.  This is for the caps and other components to burnin.  The tubes will take about the same.  My experience with the Russian tubes is they take a bit longer - and get smoother and more refined out past 200 hrs.
> 
> You can accelerate the process a bit using the Isotek burnin disc. Which they say has other benefits - like demag the resistors.  It produces a full frequency spread and various dynamic bursts.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the Info. The Tubes are already burnt in from previous use in my older amps, so should be fully good to go.  Yes Caps and other components have a time to bed in so will be putting some hours in with the Amp over the next few weeks.
  I have noticed that a lot of the midrange hardness is to do with other components outside the MJ2 as the midband is so revealing with the amp..  I changed the Stock Audeze balanced cable out for my preferred POCC silver plated one and that has improved the issue .Also I found with the LCDXC that changing the gain switch on different sources help to control the hardness as well but not sure why that is!!.
 I have tried both my LCD-XC's and HD800's with the amp and its great with both and also with a few other low impedance phones and all were really good, So cracking on with putting some more hours in and feeling this amp will be my last one,  well for the time being LOL.
  
 I am hearing inner detail on some tracks I've never heard before ,Like an artist swallowing between breaths when singing  ( Close miked)       well that's a bit special in my opinion !!!
  
 Thanks again to RB and Shultzee


----------



## rb2013

ruffra said:


> Thanks for the Info. The Tubes are already burnt in from previous use in my older amps, so should be fully good to go.  Yes Caps and other components have a time to bed in so will be putting some hours in with the Amp over the next few weeks.
> I have noticed that a lot of the midrange hardness is to do with other components outside the MJ2 as the midband is so revealing with the amp..  I changed the Stock Audeze balanced cable out for my preferred POCC silver plated one and that has improved the issue .Also I found with the LCDXC that changing the gain switch on different sources help to control the hardness as well but not sure why that is!!.
> I have tried both my LCD-XC's and HD800's with the amp and its great with both and also with a few other low impedance phones and all were really good, So cracking on with putting some more hours in and feeling this amp will be my last one,  well for the time being LOL.
> 
> ...


 

 Good feedback.  One thing I noticed on my Lyr - it sounded best with at least 4 hours warm up.  This, I believe, is do to the Class 'A' MOSFET solid state devices - they sounded best toasty warm.  My class 'A' speaker amps are the same - they need even longer time to reach optimal.
  
 During the hot summer months the warm up was less - 2 hrs or so on the Lyr.  The tubes warm up and stabilize after 10 minutes, so it's not the tubes.
  
 So the same should apply to the MJ2 - run it toasty warm


----------



## tuxbass

rb2013 said:


> Good feedback.  One thing I noticed on my Lyr - it sounded best with at least 4 hours warm up.  This, I believe, is do to the Class 'A' MOSFET solid state devices - they sounded best toasty warm.  My class 'A' speaker amps are the same - they need even longer time to reach optimal.
> 
> During the hot summer months the warm up was less - 2 hrs or so on the Lyr.  The tubes warm up and stabilize after 10 minutes, so it's not the tubes.
> 
> So the same should apply to the MJ2 - run it toasty warm


 
 Hmmm I had posted this: http://www.head-fi.org/t/778250/schiit-mjolnir-2-listening-impressions/360#post_11937482 sometime back on this thread and all I got was someone making fun of me


----------



## steved21

Anyone else running a Resonessance Labs DAC into a Mjolnir 2?   I gotta say even through the single ended HP out its pretty cool.  Anxiously waiting for balanced cables.


----------



## shultzee

steved21 said:


> Anyone else running a Resonessance Labs DAC into a Mjolnir 2?   I gotta say even through the single ended HP out its pretty cool.  Anxiously waiting for balanced cables.


 

 Yes ,  I am running the Concero HD as dac to MJ 2.    Like it a lot.


----------



## steved21

I have both the Concerto HP and HD,  I really like the match with the amp with the HD. Prefer the stock tubes over the Lisst,  Bought an Asgard to try it and it just wasn't up to par, Didn't want to dicker around so went right to Mjolnir.  So far i don't have  balanced cables for Nighthawks or Beyerdynamic HD 880 250 ohm.   So i'm really keen to try that as the single ended is not the same thing at all according to Schiit. 
 Gotta say the 880's on this amp are super.


----------



## George Chronis

Hey folks, I just bought the Mjolnir 2 and Gumby  Looking at the tube threads. I don't have much experience with tubes and especially not the 6922. From what I've read it seems that this pair may be good: https://www.tubedepot.com/products/philips-miniwatt-sq-e88cc-6922-gold-pin-holland
  
 Any advice? Any alternatives around the same price?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## kevnin

george chronis said:


> Hey folks, I just bought the Mjolnir 2 and Gumby  Looking at the tube threads. I don't have much experience with tubes and especially not the 6922. From what I've read it seems that this pair may be good: https://www.tubedepot.com/products/philips-miniwatt-sq-e88cc-6922-gold-pin-holland


 
  
 Hey, looks like we're in the same boat - I recently got Gumby and Mjolnir2 and asked about those same tubes in another thread!
  
 I was advised to look at E188CC as they are the higher quality version of E88CC. They can be found on ebay for cheaper than those E88CC's, though ebay has some risk of course. They can be marked with different brands but as long as they are from the Heerlen, Holland factory they will have the same sound. 
  
 Anyway I decided to just go for it and bought some Valvo-branded 1969 Heerlen E188CC's for $130/pair. Will let you know how it works out when I get them.


----------



## shultzee

george chronis said:


> Hey folks, I just bought the Mjolnir 2 and Gumby  Looking at the tube threads. I don't have much experience with tubes and especially not the 6922. From what I've read it seems that this pair may be good: https://www.tubedepot.com/products/philips-miniwatt-sq-e88cc-6922-gold-pin-holland
> 
> Any advice? Any alternatives around the same price?
> 
> Thanks!


 

 I would read the descriptions of the various 6922's on upscale audio.  Good resource    http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6922/


----------



## George Chronis

kevnin said:


> Hey, looks like we're in the same boat - I recently got Gumby and Mjolnir2 and asked about those same tubes in another thread!
> 
> I was advised to look at E188CC as they are the higher quality version of E88CC. They can be found on ebay for cheaper than those E88CC's, though ebay has some risk of course. They can be marked with different brands but as long as they are from the Heerlen, Holland factory they will have the same sound.
> 
> Anyway I decided to just go for it and bought some Valvo-branded 1969 Heerlen E188CC's for $130/pair. Will let you know how it works out when I get them.




Oh, great. Thank you very much!


----------



## George Chronis

shultzee said:


> I would read the descriptions of the various 6922's on upscale audio.  Good resource    http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6922/




Cool. Will do. Thank you!


----------



## shultzee

kevnin said:


> george chronis said:
> 
> 
> > Hey folks, I just bought the Mjolnir 2 and Gumby  Looking at the tube threads. I don't have much experience with tubes and especially not the 6922. From what I've read it seems that this pair may be good: https://www.tubedepot.com/products/philips-miniwatt-sq-e88cc-6922-gold-pin-holland
> ...


 
 I would be just a little careful with some of the ebay sellers.   Some of them selling tubes really don't know what they even have.    You may pay a little more with dedicated tube sellers but for the most part they are legitimate.
 Tub Depot, Tubeworld, and Upscale Audio are a few.


----------



## grdlow

kevnin said:


> Hey, looks like we're in the same boat - I recently got Gumby and Mjolnir2 and asked about those same tubes in another thread!
> 
> I was advised to look at E188CC as they are the higher quality version of E88CC. They can be found on ebay for cheaper than those E88CC's, though ebay has some risk of course. They can be marked with different brands but as long as they are from the Heerlen, Holland factory they will have the same sound.
> 
> Anyway I decided to just go for it and bought some Valvo-branded 1969 Heerlen E188CC's for $130/pair. Will let you know how it works out when I get them.


 
 While you're at it, also try out the iFi audio NOS6922 tube set and let us know your findings 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 See http://www.head-fi.org/t/784809/ifi-nos6922-valve-tube-upgrade-set-new-product-announcement


----------



## kevnin

shultzee said:


> I would be just a little careful with some of the ebay sellers.   Some of them selling tubes really don't know what they even have.    You may pay a little more with dedicated tube sellers but for the most part they are legitimate.
> Tub Depot, Tubeworld, and Upscale Audio are a few.


 
  
 Yeah I hear you. In general I would happily pay a little more from a reputable dealer, but for the ones I wanted the cheapest I found was $350/pair. Although I see that tube world has used singles for $99 each (thanks for that mention, I hadn't seen tube world). 
  
 One thing for ebay is I would only buy from sellers in North America or Western Europe. I've read a lot more reports of people getting bad tubes from Eastern Europe, and not sure I would trust Asia either. Anyway here's hoping I get good ones.


----------



## kevnin

grdlow said:


> While you're at it, also try out the iFi audio NOS6922 tube set and let us know your findings
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Great, an adapter to allow even more tubes to try. Don't tempt me, I'm trying not to get sucked too far down the rabbit hole... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Edit: Actually it's not clear to me if this allows the use of any 5670 tube or only the ones that come with it.


----------



## bflat

New owner here and a comment on burn in.
  
 I got the M2 and some NOS Philips Mniwatts and on power up, sound was shifted to the low end. After about 20 hours, very neutral and resolving with the GMB. A great combo.


----------



## shultzee

bflat said:


> New owner here and a comment on burn in.
> 
> I got the M2 and some NOS Philips Mniwatts and on power up, sound was shifted to the low end. After about 20 hours, very neutral and resolving with the GMB. A great combo.


 

 Congrats.  MJ2 is a awesome amp.


----------



## bflat

shultzee said:


> Congrats.  MJ2 is a awesome amp.


 

 Yep. Since I haven't received my Ether C yet, I listening with my Laylas and very surprised how great the sound is and there is no noise on low gain. So impressed, I just ordered a XLR balanced adapter since my Laylas have the TRRS balanced termination.


----------



## tuxbass

Are there any good comparisons of 
  
   Gumby/MJ2 vs Yggy/MJ2
  
 Would it even make sense to consider Yggy + MJ2 ? Or the Gumby is close enough ?


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Reddog posted comparisons. I found them worthwhile. Warning: IIRC, could be costly


----------



## tuxbass

argo duck said:


> ^ Reddog posted comparisons. I found them worthwhile. Warning: IIRC, could be costly


 
 Thanks, still haven't found @reddog's post yet. But @money4me247 PM-ed me some other reviews.


----------



## maxedfx

tuxbass said:


> Thanks, still haven't found @reddog
> 's post yet. But @money4me247
> PM-ed me some other reviews.


 can you share those reviews??


----------



## tuxbass

Do you guys leave your MJ2 ON all the time ?
 I don't and every time I fire it up to listen, a cold MJ2 doesn't sound very good. It has to become smoking hot before it sounds at it's best. Is this expected ?


----------



## shultzee

tuxbass said:


> Do you guys leave your MJ2 ON all the time ?
> I don't and every time I fire it up to listen, a cold MJ2 doesn't sound very good. It has to become smoking hot before it sounds at it's best. Is this expected ?


 

 I don't leave mine on all the time.   I agree it needs to warm up but it doesn't take much time.   I probably have 40 hours total on mine at this point.


----------



## reddog

tuxbass said:


> Do you guys leave your MJ2 ON all the time ?
> I don't and every time I fire it up to listen, a cold MJ2 doesn't sound very good. It has to become smoking hot before it sounds at it's best. Is this expected ?



No I try not to leave any amp on all the time, especially tube amps. I agree the MJ2 sounds smoother, after a half-hour or so.


----------



## jfoxvol

If Mjolnir 2 responds similar to Mjolnir 1, a good warmup will help a lot especially in the upper end.


----------



## tuxbass

shultzee said:


> I don't leave mine on all the time.   I agree it needs to warm up but it doesn't take much time.   I probably have 40 hours total on mine at this point.


 


reddog said:


> No I try not to leave any amp on all the time, especially tube amps. I agree the MJ2 sounds smoother, after a half-hour or so.


 


jfoxvol said:


> If Mjolnir 2 responds similar to Mjolnir 1, a good warmup will help a lot especially in the upper end.


 
 Good thanks for the confirmation, I am glad I am not completely crazy (at least not yet )


----------



## Asym9

Ah, looks like this is the thread for tube rolling discussion on the Mjolnir 2. I stopped at the other thread before finding this one.
  
 Quick question about the 6922 CCa Siemens Halske '65: Has anyone compared these to the RCA rebranded version? So far I'm really enjoying the added detail everywhere. Low frequency content is improved and very nicely controlled with these tubes when paired with my HD600s (with balanced cabling from source to hp). 
  
 Prior to rolling these tubes, I spent about 100 hours on the supplied 6BZ7s. I really didn't dislike the original tubes, but I was too curious to try these mid 60s RCAs.


----------



## bflat

After a week of tube rolling my opinions are:
  
 E88CC
  
 Philips Mini-Watt SQ 60's - powerful bass, sweet mids, good treble, really nice spacious sound. Would recommend this for any cans where you want extra bass impact.
  
 Tesla NOS 70's- fairly neutral, tighter bass, more treble extension, not as spacious or holographic as Philips. Best sound for the price.
  
 Mastu****a Brimar Tooling 60's- very bright and airy, a bit too sibilant for me. Would recommend this for any cans needed more treble extension/presence.
  
 6N23P
  
 74 Reflektor Single Post, Silver Shield - best of the bunch so far. Less bass presence than Philips, but great extension to the sub bass, slight warmth to mids, very nice treble extension. Very spacious sound. Just sublime with acoustical tracks. Highly recommended and staying in my MJ2 for now.
  
 75 Reflektor - will be testing them in a week or so. Borrowing from a friend who doesn't know he will be selling these to me yet


----------



## shultzee

bflat said:


> After a week of tube rolling my opinions are:
> 
> E88CC
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the post.   Good info.


----------



## rb2013

shultzee said:


> Thanks for the post.   Good info.


 

 +1


----------



## rb2013

bflat said:


> After a week of tube rolling my opinions are:
> 
> E88CC
> 
> ...


 

 Nice!


----------



## tuxbass

The last piece of the puzzle i.e. the DAC selection is driving me nuts now 
 My question to you guys is that if I've the MJ2, is getting the Yggy an overkill ? Would I still benefit from Yggy's superiority over Gumby or I should have gotten a Rag to take full advantage of the Yggy ?
  
 I also plan on using the unbalanced out of the DAC to feed my powered Audioengine A5's (Since I don't keep my MJ2 ON all the time).


----------



## shultzee

tuxbass said:


> The last piece of the puzzle i.e. the DAC selection is driving me nuts now
> My question to you guys is that if I've the MJ2, is getting the Yggy an overkill ? Would I still benefit from Yggy's superiority over Gumby or I should have gotten a Rag to take full advantage of the Yggy ?
> 
> I also plan on using the unbalanced out of the DAC to feed my powered Audioengine A5's (Since I don't keep my MJ2 ON all the time).


 

 I am shooting for the Gumby.  From everything I have read the Gumby is close to the yggy and is very good.  I am not sure my 57 yr. old hearing would pick up the  differences so I am going to save the extra $1000.00 it would take to go Yggy.


----------



## bflat

Keep in mind that >80% of what you have heard on Yggy was before Gumby even hit the market. Also why would Yggy owners also buy the Gumby? There are only a few folks who have compared the 2 and while all agree Yggy is more detailed, I don't think many of them would say Yggy is not worth the price premium over Gumby because that's hard to do when you spend that kind of money. If the price delta is not a big deal to you and you want the DAC that Schiit will upgrade first with their next gen technology, then get the Yggy. Otherwise, I think you will be happy with the Gumby and will just need to wait longer for future upgrades to trickle down.
  
 If I had to do it all over, I would just have Bimbies. I am in the camp of thinking a well designed SE out and in components are 99% as good as balanced.


----------



## rb2013

bflat said:


> Keep in mind that >80% of what you have heard on Yggy was before Gumby even hit the market. Also why would Yggy owners also buy the Gumby? There are only a few folks who have compared the 2 and while all agree Yggy is more detailed, I don't think many of them would say Yggy is not worth the price premium over Gumby because that's hard to do when you spend that kind of money. If the price delta is not a big deal to you and you want the DAC that Schiit will upgrade first with their next gen technology, then get the Yggy. Otherwise, I think you will be happy with the Gumby and will just need to wait longer for future upgrades to trickle down.
> 
> If I had to do it all over, I would just have Bimbies. I am in the camp of thinking a well designed SE out and in components are 99% as good as balanced.


 

 Another decision point and I'd be interested in comparing: a Gumby with a better external USB bridge like a Hydra Z with LPS, and maybe a Regen added into the mix vs a Yggy with just it's on board USB GEN2.  That's of course if you're using PC audio as your main source.
  
 I just did a 5 USB bridge shootout and the differences are not small.  The Regen engineer has a lot posted on the noise (he calls packet noise) generated by the USB processor while decoding incoming data packets.  This feeds (according to JS at Uptone) back into the DAC's power supply and clocks.  So going with an external unit keeps their PS's separate.
  
 From the folks I've talked to their DACs tend to sound better with a top external USB bridge vs the on board one.
  
 Sorry for the side track - but this is something I've been weighing.  Of course the deep pocket crowd can have it all.
 Anyone who has had this kind of experience - please post over on my Gustard U12 thread.
  
  
 Back to the awesome MJ2


----------



## bflat

rb2013 said:


> Another decision point and I'd be interested in comparing: a Gumby with a better external USB bridge like a Hydra Z with LPS, and maybe a Regen added into the mix vs a Yggy with just it's on board USB GEN2.  That's of course if you're using PC audio as your main source.
> 
> I just did a 5 USB bridge shootout and the differences are not small.  The Regen engineer has a lot posted on the noise (he calls packet noise) generated by the USB processor while decoding incoming data packets.  This feeds (according to JS at Uptone) back into the DAC's power supply and clocks.  So going with an external unit keeps their PS's separate.
> 
> ...


 

 Very important points! I have a Wyrd for each of my Schiit DACs! Probably didn't need the very expensive AQ Carbon USB cables but what the hell.
  
 LOL, I didn't notice your awesome 6922 reviews until now! Very glad I didn't contradict your impressions!


----------



## shultzee

rb2013 said:


> bflat said:
> 
> 
> > Keep in mind that >80% of what you have heard on Yggy was before Gumby even hit the market. Also why would Yggy owners also buy the Gumby? There are only a few folks who have compared the 2 and while all agree Yggy is more detailed, I don't think many of them would say Yggy is not worth the price premium over Gumby because that's hard to do when you spend that kind of money. If the price delta is not a big deal to you and you want the DAC that Schiit will upgrade first with their next gen technology, then get the Yggy. Otherwise, I think you will be happy with the Gumby and will just need to wait longer for future upgrades to trickle down.
> ...



What would you consider a decent usb bridge after your research?


----------



## rb2013

bflat said:


> Very important points! I have a Wyrd for each of my Schiit DACs! Probably didn't need the very expensive AQ Carbon USB cables but what the hell.
> 
> LOL, I didn't notice your awesome 6922 reviews until now! Very glad I didn't contradict your impressions!


 
 What do you think with or without the Wyrd - notice a difference?  Thinking of doing a USB gizmo shootout.  Have a jitterbug - that was a nice incremental improvement - keeping it inmy system.  I'm to the point of selling my analog stuff - the music server/USB/tubed DACs are sounding so good - don't play LPs much any more.
  
 Well your take those sweet SWGP silver shield Reflektors is spot on  - folks on the Woo WA2 have had similar outstanding results - one experienced tube roller called the HG '75's the best he has ever heard - over his Siemens CCa's and Amperex white print 6922's.
  
 Great to see they're working out in your MJ2.


----------



## bflat

rb2013 said:


> What do you think with or without the Wyrd - notice a difference?  Thinking of doing a USB gizmo shootout.  Have a jitterbug - that was a nice incremental improvement - keeping it inmy system.  I'm to the point of selling my analog stuff - the music server/USB/tubed DACs are sounding so good - don't play LPs much any more.
> 
> Well your take those sweet SWGP silver shield Reflektors is spot on  - folks on the Woo WA2 have had similar outstanding results - one experienced tube roller called the HG '75's the best he has ever heard - over his Siemens CCa's and Amperex white print 6922's.
> 
> Great to see they're working out in your MJ2.


 

 Cool. As far as Wyrd goes for me it's mixed.
  
 On my home system the difference is huge because I was getting some noise without it. My home system is a custom rig I built so has no EMI shielding and FCC certification of any sort. It was built for pure speed and liquid cooled. Getting USB power separated to the Wyrd eliminated the noise. There were also times that the sampling rates got screwed up without Wyrd, so that's another obvious issue that got fixed.
  
 On my Macbook system at work, I really can't tell much difference due to the short and direct connection to my Macbook Pro. However, I got the second Wyrd from a fellow Headfier and he actually measured THD and SNR from his system with and without and there were definite improvements in the measurements. I think it's up to individuals if that equates to perceived differences.
  
 I basically view the Wyrd as an insurance device against extraneous noise and connectivity problems. For $100 I think it's worth it.


----------



## rb2013

bflat said:


> Cool. As far as Wyrd goes for me it's mixed.
> 
> On my home system the difference is huge because I was getting some noise without it. My home system is a custom rig I built so has no EMI shielding and FCC certification of any sort. It was built for pure speed and liquid cooled. Getting USB power separated to the Wyrd eliminated the noise. There were also times that the sampling rates got screwed up without Wyrd, so that's another obvious issue that got fixed.
> 
> ...


 

 Cheers to that!


----------



## tuxbass

bflat said:


> Keep in mind that >80% of what you have heard on Yggy was before Gumby even hit the market. Also why would Yggy owners also buy the Gumby? There are only a few folks who have compared the 2 and while all agree Yggy is more detailed, I don't think many of them would say Yggy is not worth the price premium over Gumby because that's hard to do when you spend that kind of money. If the price delta is not a big deal to you and you want the DAC that Schiit will upgrade first with their next gen technology, then get the Yggy. Otherwise, I think you will be happy with the Gumby and will just need to wait longer for future upgrades to trickle down.
> 
> If I had to do it all over, I would just have Bimbies. I am in the camp of thinking a well designed SE out and in components are 99% as good as balanced.


 
 This is good reasoning.
 The only other thing to consider is the Gen3 USB in Yggy. Wondering how close would a Gumby with Wyrd or Uptone REGEN be to the Yggy ?


----------



## steved21

Hi
  
 I have a  MJ2, quite like the LISST but prefer the 6BZT.  Are you able to tell be how the stock tubes (6BZT) stack up to the ones  you describe, in particular the 6N23P that you like. Also whats you DAC?   I'm finding the source make most of the difference in my sound, aside from the headphones. 
 thanks
 Steve


----------



## rb2013

tuxbass said:


> This is good reasoning.
> The only other thing to consider is the Gen3 USB in Yggy. Wondering how close would a Gumby with Wyrd or Uptone REGEN be to the Yggy ?


 

 Yes good point - I read the GEN3 is only available on the Yggy.


----------



## MattTCG

I went with mjo2 and GUMBY and ended up adding Wyrd to eliminate usb problems. Well, I did solve the usb problem without the Wyrd but I liked what the Wyrd did for the sound that I kept it anyway.


----------



## shultzee

matttcg said:


> I went with mjo2 and GUMBY and ended up adding Wyrd to eliminate usb problems. Well, I did solve the usb problem without the Wyrd but I liked what the Wyrd did for the sound that I kept it anyway.


 

 Enabler


----------



## MattTCG

shultzee said:


> Enabler


 
  
 Yes, but I'm getting paid to do it.


----------



## rb2013

shultzee said:


> What would you consider a decent usb bridge after your research?


 

 The Hydra Z is excellent, so is the Gustard U12, Audio Breeze DU-U8 are outstanding too.  I'll post my shootout rankings and comments after trying one more USB bridge that has my interest.  BTW had the iDAC2 - not very good.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/736294/gustard-u12-usb-interface-8-core-xmos-chip


----------



## rb2013

matttcg said:


> I went with mjo2 and GUMBY and ended up adding Wyrd to eliminate usb problems. Well, I did solve the usb problem without the Wyrd but I liked what the Wyrd did for the sound that I kept it anyway.


 

 After I'm done with the USB bridge shootout I'm going to do one on these USB gizmos - I have a Regen coming, will get a Wryd (heard good things about it), I have the Audioquest jitterbug - nice improvement - and for $49 heck.  And will think about the new iUSB 3.0 - but at $400 it's getting out of my budget.  Also have two different linear power supplies for the Regen (it apparently responds well to a good LPS), the TeraDak X1 and the better TeraDak R-core SB30W.  And will test on the USB bridges to see which respond the best to each (starting to get as complex a review as my 17 - 6922 tube review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  
 BTW I'm a big R2R DAC fan - the GUMBY and YGGY are outstanding technology - got to hand it to those tricky Sch**t folks.


----------



## shultzee

rb2013 said:


> shultzee said:
> 
> 
> > What would you consider a decent usb bridge after your research?
> ...




Looking forward to your comments when you complete them.


----------



## ajwu95

money4me247 said:


> Anyone here with any insights of the Mjolnir 2 vs A[COLOR=222222]uralic Taurus MKII?? thanks [/COLOR]


I would like to know as well. I am trying to decide between the two.


----------



## deadie

ajwu95 said:


> I would like to know as well. I am trying to decide between the two.


 
  
 I've had a chance to listen to the Taurus MkII on a number of occasions, at shows and at my local dealer.  I currently own the MJ2, am running it with '74 Reflektors.
  
 I really like the Taurus - to my ears it has a slightly fuller sound than the MJ2, punchier, more impactful low end.  That punch comes at the expense of absolute transparency and 3D soundstage, however.  MJ2 is more *whoa* detailed overall.  I "fill in" the MJ2 low end with a vintage McIntosh preamp with EQ, when needed.  
  
 Two specific tracks that highlight the Taurus low end are 1) Toto's "Without Your Love" - the beginning hits as well as 2) the double drum beat at the beginning of Hotel California.  This isn't to say the MJ2 is lacking, but that the Taurus's impact is eye opening on both LCD-X and Senn HD800, driven balanced.  The Taurus also exhibits a distinct sound character balanced output vs. SE.  It's weird, google other reviews.  
  
 (FWIW the GSX-MkII has greater transparency and equal bass impact vs. the Taurus, but costs ~$1k more.  Money no object, I'd go for the GSX, but then you're in Rag territory...  little more you're in Liquid Gold territory.  never ends)
  
 Ultimately I bought the MJ2 b/c 1) it's more detailed than the Taurus 2) is much cheaper 3) can tube roll and 4) 'merica!  Also, Aurelic service reputation is ok/spotty vs. Schiit's stellar rep.


----------



## shultzee

deadie said:


> ajwu95 said:
> 
> 
> > I would like to know as well. I am trying to decide between the two.
> ...


 

 Just got a pair of 74 Reflectors as well for the MJ2.   Very, very nice!   Got to make you wonder about the 75's


----------



## deadie

shultzee said:


> Just got a pair of 74 Reflectors as well for the MJ2.   Very, very nice!   Got to make you wonder about the 75's


 
  
 Ah speaking of tubes, this reminded me...  for those interested in that ifi NOS 6922 Valve Replacement Set... here is Avatar's contact info:
  
    
You can purchase directly from us. All I need to get you on our wait list is a shipping/billing address.
  
The tube set is going to retail for $129 + Shipping.
  
Once I have your address, I will get you down on our wait list to have a set sent out as soon as they are available!
  
All the best,
  
James Haner
Director, Sales & Social Media
Avatar Acoustics
545 Wentworth Court
Fayetteville, GA 30215
(678)-817-0573
sales@avataracoustics.com
www.avataracoustics.com


  
 Someone go get 'em!  Tell us how they sound!


----------



## MattTCG

shultzee said:


> Just got a pair of 74 Reflectors as well for the MJ2.   Very, very nice!   Got to make you wonder about the 75's  :blink:


Just got the same set...jinks.


----------



## shultzee

matttcg said:


> shultzee said:
> 
> 
> > Just got a pair of 74 Reflectors as well for the MJ2.   Very, very nice!   Got to make you wonder about the 75's
> ...


 

 I was happy with the tubes I had.  I am happier now


----------



## Liu Junyuan

I have the '75s but no amp to use them with atm!


----------



## prismstorm

I'm thinking of gradually assembling a Gumby-Mjolnir 2 combo to power some Audezes, but want to take it one step at a time. Aside from eased financial strains, it would allow me to truly appreciate the margin of upgrade for each component acquired. As I'm looking to get the Mojo it seems my first choice should be to get Mjolnir 2 because Mojo can be used as a DAC to line out to MJ2 but if I get Gumby first I can't bypass the Mojo's DAC. What I worry about though is the discrepancy in burn-in this will result in. My MJ2 would be burned in for months before a fresh Gumby is added to the stack, and if I proceed to use them together the Gumby would always be behind. Would this be a problem? Should I acquire and use both from the get-go?


----------



## rb2013

liu junyuan said:


> I have the '75s but no amp to use them with atm!


----------



## edmax

Hi guys. I just bought the Mjolnir2 and Gungnir Multibit. I pair it with Sennheiser HD800 with balanced cable CH 800 S. It really sound very revealing and honest. Sound stage is much wider but I think a little bit recessed somewhere in the 500hz to my ear. Not sure if it is really recessed since I really dont have a proper way to measure it. It sounds fatiguing on the HD800 for long session. I think it is because the whole setup is just reavealing from DAC->Headphone Amp->Headphone. But the clarity is just blows away my Sennheiser HDVD800 and Centrance HiFi M8. I think I will mod my headphone to make it listenable to a long sessions (I will try the mod from InnerFidelity). I would not recommend HDVD800 btw since it have a low frequency popping noise when the sound fades out. Sorry for the off topic a bit I will post a new thread about it when my account get unlocked. 
  
 For the price Schiit Mjolnir2 and Gungnir combo is a really good buy for the price. I just wish the units are a little bit narrower but I can get over it since it gives me the sound quality I want. I am using the stock tube btw.


----------



## bflat

Ha! I got all of you beat - got my MJ2, both 74 and 75 Reflektors, but no Ether C yet!
  
 However, as I've posted previously, my Laylas are doing just fine as a reference headphone. My notes on comparing the 75 to 74 are:
  

Bass seems a bit tighter and faster with the 75. Keep in mind that I'm listening to BA drivers in the Laylas so this is probably exaggerated compared to dynamic or planar drivers. Just a slight edge to the 75.
Mids - a little more warmth than 74. But it's a different kind of warmth. It's most notable with acoustic guitar and piano. I think it may have more to do with the micro details of the sustained resonance of the strings and not an overall warmth to the tone. I find vocals to be pretty much identical between 74 and 75. Maybe the right way to describe it is more warmth but without added weight?
Highs -  Amazing amount of details. Had I never listened to the 75, I would have been perfectly happy with the 74. I don't believe the 75 adds more detail or extension. Rather, it sounds to me just a cleaner version of the 74 so the details just present better with more separation. This equates to more detail without added harshness or grain. It reminds me of looking through a spotless piece of glass versus a spotless piece of crystal. You would never know there was a loss of light looking through glass until you compared it to crystal.
  
 So, the big question is do I find the upgrade to 75 worth it? I have to give a qualified "yes". If you have access to the 75 then it's absolutely worth it. However, I would not obsess about it if you have the 74 and are having a hard time finding the 75. You would also need a really resolving DAC and headphones to hear the differences. I really wish I didn't say what I just did....A very bad thought has come to mind - I wonder how the Yggy would sound as a source instead of my Gumby. Damn it!! Seriously, I'm sure I would be blown away, but back to my earlier point, I wouldn't know I was missing out on anything until I listened to the Yggy.
  
 I'll have more to report back when my Ethers finally arrive and get burned in. I tell you what, it's no fun getting the Gumby, warming it up and burning it in, getting the MJ2 after all that and doing another burn in, plus tube burn in, then getting Ethers and burning those in. Really should have just gotten everything all at once!


----------



## shultzee

edmax said:


> Hi guys. I just bought the Mjolnir2 and Gungnir Multibit. I pair it with Sennheiser HD800 with balanced cable CH 800 S. It really sound very revealing and honest. Sound stage is much wider but I think a little bit recessed somewhere in the 500hz to my ear. Not sure if it is really recessed since I really dont have a proper way to measure it. It sounds fatiguing on the HD800 for long session. I think it is because the whole setup is just reavealing from DAC->Headphone Amp->Headphone. But the clarity is just blows away my Sennheiser HDVD800 and Centrance HiFi M8. I think I will mod my headphone to make it listenable to a long sessions (I will try the mod from InnerFidelity). I would not recommend HDVD800 btw since it have a low frequency popping noise when the sound fades out. Sorry for the off topic a bit I will post a new thread about it when my account get unlocked.
> 
> For the price Schiit Mjolnir2 and Gungnir combo is a really good buy for the price. I just wish the units are a little bit narrower but I can get over it since it gives me the sound quality I want. I am using the stock tube btw.


 

 Its going to get even better when you get some upgraded tubes.


----------



## shultzee

bflat said:


> Ha! I got all of you beat - got my MJ2, both 74 and 75 Reflektors, but no Ether C yet!
> 
> However, as I've posted previously, my Laylas are doing just fine as a reference headphone. My notes on comparing the 75 to 74 are:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Going to have to try the 75's some day but dang they are hard to find.


----------



## edmax

What tubes do recommend? Reducing the harshness would be nice. Thanks.


----------



## MattTCG

edmax said:


> What tubes do recommend? Reducing the harshness would be nice. Thanks.


 
  
 You don't have to spend big money to get "nice tubes" for mjo. A nice "smooth" set would be something like Amperex Orange Globes via Mercedesmann on ebay. Bugle boys are also nice.


----------



## reddog

matttcg said:


> You don't have to spend big money to get "nice tubes" for mjo. A nice "smooth" set would be something like Amperex Orange Globes via Mercedesmann on ebay. Bugle boys are also nice.



I need to get some Bugle Boys, heard a lot of good stuff about them. But I am still skittish about ebay. I got a pair of tubes and they were both bad. Hoping the seller will make good on replacing them.


----------



## MattTCG

reddog said:


> I need to get some Bugle Boys, heard a lot of good stuff about them. But I am still skittish about ebay. I got a pair of tubes and they were both bad. Hoping the seller will make good on replacing them.


Mercedes Mann is a trusted seller. I've used him for years.


----------



## Tuco1965

reddog said:


> I need to get some Bugle Boys, heard a lot of good stuff about them. But I am still skittish about ebay. I got a pair of tubes and they were both bad. Hoping the seller will make good on replacing them.




That sucks. I hope you get some replacements.


----------



## reddog

tuco1965 said:


> That sucks. I hope you get some replacements.



I hope so too, trying to get tubes for my Liquid Glass. Most internet stores do not carry 12sn7gt tubes.


----------



## edmax

Thanks. I will add them in my tube rolling list.


----------



## edmax

matttcg said:


> You don't have to spend big money to get "nice tubes" for mjo. A nice "smooth" set would be something like Amperex Orange Globes via Mercedesmann on ebay. Bugle boys are also nice.


 
 Thanks. I will add them in my tube rolling list.


----------



## kevnin

edmax said:


> What tubes do recommend? Reducing the harshness would be nice. Thanks.


 
  
 I wouldn't recommend trying to reduce the harshness with tubes. Good tubes are pretty transparent. The harshness comes from a 6KHz peak/resonance that can be nicely mitigated with a simple mod. Google "Anax 2.0".


----------



## P4UL

Just out of curiosity has anyone tried using IEMs out of the balanced XLR? I know I read where someone used the single ended, but had a TRRS termination and was going to get an interconnect to try it on 4-pin balanced.


----------



## bflat

p4ul said:


> Just out of curiosity has anyone tried using IEMs out of the balanced XLR? I know I read where someone used the single ended, but had a TRRS termination and was going to get an interconnect to try it on 4-pin balanced.


 

 That was probably me. I've been using a TRRS to XLR adapter for the past couple weeks. I would say for IEM it's highly recommended since I was getting some slight noise on the SE connector. I got mine from Norne Audio and generally have them in stock ready to ship. The whole Schiit stack with Laylas are so good imho, I'm not sure if the Ether C will be much better once I receive them. I wouldn't mind saving $1600 LOL.


----------



## P4UL

bflat said:


> That was probably me. I've been using a TRRS to XLR adapter for the past couple weeks. I would say for IEM it's highly recommended since I was getting some slight noise on the SE connector. I got mine from Norne Audio and generally have them in stock ready to ship. The whole Schiit stack with Laylas are so good imho, I'm not sure if the Ether C will be much better once I receive them. I wouldn't mind saving $1600 LOL.


 
 Good to know!! I ordered a custom cable from plusSound that will have a 4-pin XLR termination to use for my home setup. So that's a relief that it should work well with the MJ2!


----------



## bflat

Forgot to mention, if you haven't been using the XLR balanced out of your MJ2, it will need burn in. My first 2 min of listening was a bit harsh treble and overall a little thin sound. I let it burn in for about 20 hours and all was good. By "little" I mean around 1-1.5 dB difference. Prior to switching to balanced, I had burned in the MJ2 for about 50 hours.


----------



## kurb1980

Thanks Reddog I just placed my order for the Telefunken E88CC / 6922  can't wait to hear these!  My Mjolnir is pretty much burned in and I burned in the Lisst tubes which require at least 40+ hrs to loosen up.  Initially a touch bright and stiff they have opened up now and the highs don't seem tinsely any more.  I am using the balanced out of my Benchmark DAC2 HGC to the Mj2 and the soundstage is unreal.  I been doing a lot of reading on the Yggdrasil and considering selling my Benchmark to fund it but I may take the 15 day challenge first to see if it bests the Benchmarks balanced outputs?


----------



## reddog

kurb1980 said:


> Thanks Reddog I just placed my order for the Telefunken E88CC / 6922  can't wait to hear these!  My Mjolnir is pretty much burned in and I burned in the Lisst tubes which require at least 40+ hrs to loosen up.  Initially a touch bright and stiff they have opened up now and the highs don't seem tinsely any more.  I am using the balanced out of my Benchmark DAC2 HGC to the Mj2 and the soundstage is unreal.  I been doing a lot of reading on the Yggdrasil and considering selling my Benchmark to fund it but I may take the 15 day challenge first to see if it bests the Benchmarks balanced outputs?



I am sure your MJ2, paired with the Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, hooked up to Benchmark DAC2 HGC will make any headphone, you own, sing like a muse of old. However the Yggdrasil is a bloody fantastic DAC, that is ever so resolving yet remains ever so musical. I would go for the 15 day return, and try out the Yggdrasil.


----------



## edmax

kevnin said:


> I wouldn't recommend trying to reduce the harshness with tubes. Good tubes are pretty transparent. The harshness comes from a 6KHz peak/resonance that can be nicely mitigated with a simple mod. Google "Anax 2.0".


 
 I agree, after did some readings in here seems it will not fix it. I will try that mod when I get a chance. I wonder if anybody is selling the felt. I am really good at artwork. Btw shultzee sold me his e88c tubes. I am really excited to try those. I heard the stock tubes on Mj2 are not as good. I am actually satisfied with it already but I guess it would be a nice upgrade then.


----------



## shultzee

edmax said:


> kevnin said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't recommend trying to reduce the harshness with tubes. Good tubes are pretty transparent. The harshness comes from a 6KHz peak/resonance that can be nicely mitigated with a simple mod. Google "Anax 2.0".
> ...


 

 Most of the art/hobby stores have the felt.    If you have a Michaels or Hobby Lobby store around they should have it.


----------



## edmax

shultzee said:


> Most of the art/hobby stores have the felt.    If you have a Michaels or Hobby Lobby store around they should have it.




I miss typed a sentence over there... i was trying to say I am not really good at art work. Lol. There is hobby lobby store in my area. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## shultzee

edmax said:


> shultzee said:
> 
> 
> > Most of the art/hobby stores have the felt.    If you have a Michaels or Hobby Lobby store around they should have it.
> ...


 

 If you follow the directions from the inner fidelity site it is really a easy process.  They spell out step by step and also have a video.  They also have a pdf file  to print the templates to cut the felt.


----------



## bflat

edmax said:


> I agree, after did some readings in here seems it will not fix it. I will try that mod when I get a chance. I wonder if anybody is selling the felt. I am really good at artwork. Btw shultzee sold me his e88c tubes. I am really excited to try those. I heard the stock tubes on Mj2 are not as good. I am actually satisfied with it already but I guess it would be a nice upgrade then.


 

 There's no shame in using EQ, especially in moderation. I think you will find a little as 2-3 dB adjustment can do wonders. Everyone's hearing and tastes are different and we are all buying the same components so EQ can give us that last 10% that is exactly to our personal tastes. I expect I'll add +2-3 dB from 64 Hz on down even with the HG 75's I'm rolling once my Ethers get here. I like my low end bass just a little above neutral. When you start approaching +/- 6 dB, then that's an indication that one or more components are not suited to your listening tastes.
  
 I also found a good music player like Audirvana that has a top shelf up sampling algorithm can take some edge off the treble if you go for the max sampling rate your DAC can handle.
  
 Tube rolling is a sick disease that eats your dollars and fills your drawers with delicate glass objects that you can't hide! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Check out my Little Dot classified and see what I mean!


----------



## lolovitch

Hi Guys, no listening impressions yet as I only ordered the Mjolnir 2 last week and 230V version is backordered. 2-3 weeks to wait according to the website. I remain patient, mainly thanks to the WA22 / HD800 I am listening at just now (Talich Quartet, Beethoven; String Quartet #1).
 More than adequate to pass the time while waiting. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 One question though. So far I only considered the Mjolnir as a balanced amp, not paying much attention to the single-ended possibilities of the M2. This had me wondering what the difference are on the input side. If fed single-ended signal will the M2 work up to its full potential or only "half" of it?
  
 I understand the limitations of the single output and am mainly interested how single-ended input works together with balanced output.


----------



## P4UL

Has anyone run the MJ2 as a preamp? I plan on going Source->GMB->MJ2->The King when it arrive in Dec. and want to get some impressions on how well it works as a preamp.


----------



## Mediahound

p4ul said:


> Has anyone run the MJ2 as a preamp? I plan on going Source->GMB->MJ2->The King when it arrive in Dec. and want to get some impressions on how well it works as a preamp.


 

 I do, single ended into some powered stereo speakers. Works fine.


----------



## P4UL

mediahound said:


> I do, single ended into some powered stereo speakers. Works fine.



Kinda new to preamping. Does tube rolling affect the SQ as much as using it as a power amp? I know the tubes are on the imput side so I would assume so, but impressions?


----------



## George Chronis

p4ul said:


> Has anyone run the MJ2 as a preamp? I plan on going Source->GMB->MJ2->The King when it arrive in Dec. and want to get some impressions on how well it works as a preamp.




I've used a MJ for a few months to a Parasound Halo to Nautilus 805's. Excellent! The MJ may be a tad too high output, though. Can't really go past 12 o clock and the Parasound is at 3/4 power, making it not the ideal THX setting as per manual of the Halo. If I go full out on the Halo, I'll have very little granularity on the MJ. It's a small room as well though and the 805's are not particularly hard to drive. I just bought an MJ2/Gungnir combo and will try with that as well...


----------



## hrq12345

Any one compared the MJ2 to the ZOTL2?


----------



## ToTo Man

razrleaf said:


> Sounds like the $30 it costs to convert my HD 650s to balanced would be justified (if I got a MJ2).


 
 Can someone please educate me on the $30 balanced upgrade for the HD650s?  I'd like to upgrade my HD600s to balanced but all I can find is the official $240 Sennheiser HD600/HD650 XLR cable.


----------



## RazrLeaf

toto man said:


> Can someone please educate me on the $30 balanced upgrade for the HD650s?  I'd like to upgrade my HD600s to balanced but all I can find is the official $240 Sennheiser HD600/HD650 XLR cable.


 

 $24 stock cable + $6 Neutrik 4-pin XLR Connector + some soldering tools and skill = $30 balanced cable.  If you have the tools and skill, it's $30.


----------



## ToTo Man

razrleaf said:


> $24 stock cable + $6 Neutrik 4-pin XLR Connector + some soldering tools and skill = $30 balanced cable.  If you have the tools and skill, it's $30.


 
 Ah, the skill part is the problem (cerebral palsy + fine detail soldering = not such a good combination!).  Are there any decent off-the-shelf alternatives to the $240 Sennheiser cable for under $100?


----------



## MattTCG

I think headroom carries what you're looking for at about $80.


----------



## tlu55

I picked up one of these for $73.50 on eBay for my MJ2 / HD600's.  Canare and Neutrik materials.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Balanced-Sennheiser-Headphone-Cable-HD525-HD535-HD565-HD600-HD650-/121687077874?hash=item1c551d73f2:g:0K8AAOSwDNdVpCC2


----------



## ToTo Man

matttcg said:


> I think headroom carries what you're looking for at about $80.


 
  


tlu55 said:


> I picked up one of these for $73.50 on eBay for my MJ2 / HD600's.  Canare and Neutrik materials.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Balanced-Sennheiser-Headphone-Cable-HD525-HD535-HD565-HD600-HD650-/121687077874?hash=item1c551d73f2:g:0K8AAOSwDNdVpCC2


 
  
 Thank you both, those options are definitely more sensibly priced!
  
 At risk of revealing the true extent of my ignorance of balanced configurations, I'm assuming a basic 1/4" female TRS to 4-pin male XLR adapter, joined to my existing HD600 cable, wouldn't work?


----------



## JK-47

toto man said:


> Thank you both, those options are definitely more sensibly priced!
> 
> At risk of revealing the true extent of my ignorance of balanced configurations, I'm assuming a basic 1/4" female TRS to 4-pin male XLR adapter, joined to my existing HD600 cable, wouldn't work?


 

 It wouldn't work. A female 4 pin XLR to 1/4"/3.5mm male will work, for when you want to connect your balanced cable to an SE amp.
  
 Better to ask than make the mistake...


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Ragnarok is clearly a step up from MJ2 in terms of solid state, but Jason himself says he uses MJ2 with tubes for his own personal use, citing a more euphonic sound. Is Jason's assessment correct? Is Ragnarok appreciably less musical/euphonic than MJ2, despite increased power, detail, and transparency? I'm especially interested in my HD800s, of course, but also the HD600, Q701, K1K, the HE1000, the SR009 (via Woo Wee), perhaps the K812 and LCD-2/XC.


----------



## shultzee

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Ragnarok is clearly a step up from MJ2 in terms of solid state, but Jason himself says he uses MJ2 with tubes for his own personal use, citing a more euphonic sound. Is Jason's assessment correct? Is Ragnarok appreciably less musical/euphonic than MJ2, despite increased power, detail, and transparency? I'm especially interested in my HD800s, of course, but also the HD600, Q701, K1K, the HE1000, the SR009 (via Woo Wee), perhaps the K812 and LCD-2/XC.


 

 I have said it before here.  The mj2 to me is magical with the hd800.  I have owned supposedly superior amps like the violectric v281 , Icon HP8 MK11 ,  Woo Wa6se and none had the synergy the mj2 does with good tubes.   I would be skeptical the Rag is better with the hd800 but someday I will see for myself.


----------



## Argo Duck

Soon after release Rag was described by one purrin - a prominent head-fier at the time - as having tube-like qualities. IIRC some others have certainly described it as "musical".

This said, a tube amp like the MJ2 can _always_ be made more "musical/euphonic" than an SS amp - if that's how you tune it. But you don't have to tune it that way...


----------



## DWbirdseye

It's the sleepless nights, the endless research, the confusing acronyms that have me wondering if I'm ready to audition for one flew over the cuckoos' nest. I'm tired but totally buzzed and I've just submitted my order for Schiit's  Mjolnir 2 with solid state and tube options. My game plan is to test the new amp with the gear I already have and then add a schiit dac at a later date. This way I hope to be able to appreciate and identify the sonic differences as I add new and improved equipment to the audio chain. I will ultimately purchase a new set of ear phones and have the Mr. Speakers Ether on my radar.....
 Well the idea of  patiently waiting and exercising restraint just went out the window. I was browsing the LCD 2 thread and came across a deal from Amarado for the LCD-2 F for $749 and I hopped on it right away. If for some reason it's too heavy and uncomfortable or I don't like the sound, I have until 2/1/16 to return the phones without penalty. 
 I just thought I would share as many of you are clearly responsible for my lack of good judgment. Thanks for all the wonderful insight into the Schiit Mjolnir 2.


----------



## bflat

dwbirdseye said:


> It's the sleepless nights, the endless research, the confusing acronyms that have me wondering if I'm ready to audition for one flew over the cuckoos' nest. I'm tired but totally buzzed and I've just submitted my order for Schiit's  Mjolnir 2 with solid state and tube options. My game plan is to test the new amp with the gear I already have and then add a schiit dac at a later date. This way I vhope to be able to appreciate and identify the sonic differences as I add new and improved equipment to the audio chain. I will ultimately purchase a new set of ear phones and have the Mr. Speakers Ether on my radar.....
> Well the idea of  patiently waiting and exercising restraint just went out the window. I was browsing the LCD 2 thread and came across a deal from Amarado for the LCD-2 F for $749 and I hopped on it right away. If for some reason it's too heavy and uncomfortable or I don't like the sound, I have until 2/1/16 to return the phones without penalty.
> I just thought I would share as many of you are clearly responsible for my lack of good judgment. Thanks for all wonderful insight into the Schiit Mjolnir 2.


 

 Good choice! With your long trial period of the LCD-2, that should give you enough time to roll some tubes to get the sound you want.


----------



## P4UL

dwbirdseye said:


> It's the sleepless nights, the endless research, the confusing acronyms that have me wondering if I'm ready to audition for one flew over the cuckoos' nest. I'm tired but totally buzzed and I've just submitted my order for Schiit's  Mjolnir 2 with solid state and tube options. My game plan is to test the new amp with the gear I already have and then add a schiit dac at a later date. This way I vhope to be able to appreciate and identify the sonic differences as I add new and improved equipment to the audio chain. I will ultimately purchase a new set of ear phones and have the Mr. Speakers Ether on my radar.....
> 
> Well the idea of  patiently waiting and exercising restraint just went out the window. I was browsing the LCD 2 thread and came across a deal from Amarado for the LCD-2 F for $749 and I hopped on it right away. If for some reason it's too heavy and uncomfortable or I don't like the sound, I have until 2/1/16 to return the phones without penalty.
> 
> I just thought I would share as many of you are clearly responsible for my lack of good judgment. Thanks for all wonderful insight into the Schiit Mjolnir 2.



Order a suspension strap for it (lohb) and you won't regret it!

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Audeze-Unofficial-Premium-Grade-Leather-Suspension-Strap-for-Audeze-/181941692725?nav=SEARCH

Literally makes the headphone feel like a cloud on your head. I would say get the new carbon headband from Audeze, but imo the lohb is more comfortable.


----------



## DWbirdseye

Thank you P4UL I will check out your recommendation.


----------



## DWbirdseye

bflat said:


> Good choice! With your long trial period of the LCD-2, that should give you enough time to roll some tubes to get the sound you want.



That's a good plan and I'll have to research which tubes produce what in the way of sound, without breaking the bank.


----------



## shultzee

dwbirdseye said:


> It's the sleepless nights, the endless research, the confusing acronyms that have me wondering if I'm ready to audition for one flew over the cuckoos' nest. I'm tired but totally buzzed and I've just submitted my order for Schiit's  Mjolnir 2 with solid state and tube options. My game plan is to test the new amp with the gear I already have and then add a schiit dac at a later date. This way I hope to be able to appreciate and identify the sonic differences as I add new and improved equipment to the audio chain. I will ultimately purchase a new set of ear phones and have the Mr. Speakers Ether on my radar.....
> Well the idea of  patiently waiting and exercising restraint just went out the window. I was browsing the LCD 2 thread and came across a deal from Amarado for the LCD-2 F for $749 and I hopped on it right away. If for some reason it's too heavy and uncomfortable or I don't like the sound, I have until 2/1/16 to return the phones without penalty.
> I just thought I would share as many of you are clearly responsible for my lack of good judgment. Thanks for all the wonderful insight into the Schiit Mjolnir 2.


 

 Congrats.  You will love that MJ2


----------



## zachawry

reddog said:


> I am sure your MJ2, paired with the Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, hooked up to Benchmark DAC2 HGC will make any headphone, you own, sing like a muse of old. However the Yggdrasil is a bloody fantastic DAC, that is ever so resolving yet remains ever so musical. I would go for the 15 day return, and try out the Yggdrasil.


 

 Reddog, way back in this thread you said that your Yggy/Rag stack sounded significantly better than the MBG/Mjolnir 2. 
  
 Here's a question for you, if you had to pick between Yggy/Mjolnir2 and MBG/Rag, which setup do you think would sound better?


----------



## reddog

zachawry said:


> Reddog, way back in this thread you said that your Yggy/Rag stack sounded significantly better than the MBG/Mjolnir 2.
> 
> Here's a question for you, if you had to pick between Yggy/Mjolnir2 and MBG/Rag, which setup do you think would sound better?



I would choose the Yggdrasil/ MJ2, every time. The Yggdrasil is that good of a dac.


----------



## tuxbass

reddog said:


> I would choose the Yggdrasil/ MJ2, every time. The Yggdrasil is that good of a dac.


 
 Good to hear. That's my current setup at home.
 How long does the Yggy take to burn-in, to sound at it's best ?


----------



## reddog

tuxbass said:


> Good to hear. That's my current setup at home.
> How long does the Yggy take to burn-in, to sound at it's best ?



Between 150 and 200 hours, and then the Yggdrasil is magical.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ I don't own yggy (yet!) but consensus in the Yggdrasil threads suggests a significant change ("magic") at approximately one week of _continuous_ power-up.

Note Schiit (especially @baldr) strongly recommend Yggy be permanently switched on


----------



## tuxbass

reddog said:


> Between 150 and 200 hours, and then the Yggdrasil is magical.


 
  


argo duck said:


> ^ I don't own yggy (yet!) but consensus in the Yggdrasil threads suggests a significant change ("magic") at approximately one week of _continuous_ power-up.
> 
> Note Schiit (especially @baldr) strongly recommend Yggy be permanently switched on


 
 Thanks ... I've mine running since last Wednesday. Just to be safe I am also continuously playing music for (almost) the entire time.
 Looks like couple more days for me but I'm going to wait till the end of the week.


----------



## ToTo Man

The Schiit website states the power output of Mjolnir 2 is 8W RMS balanced vs 2W RMS unbalanced (into 32 ohms).  I presume this 1/4 factor also applies for higher impedances?  i.e. 425mW RMS balanced drops to 106.25mW RMS unbalanced (into 600 ohms)?


----------



## reddog

argo duck said:


> ^ I don't own yggy (yet!) but consensus in the Yggdrasil threads suggests a significant change ("magic") at approximately one week of _continuous_ power-up.
> 
> Note Schiit (especially @baldr) strongly recommend Yggy be permanently switched on



I have only turned off my Yggdrasil once, and It was a pain in but to warm it up again, although it took only 4 days, for it to sound magical.


----------



## jp11801

Ok just ordered the Mjolnir 2 and have these tube sets at the house (prior to setting out for more) any thoughts on these paired with the LCD X or the Audio Technica W 3000's 
  
 Siemens E88cc
 Amperex Orange Globe Ecc88 Holland
 Amperex PQ 6922 USA 
 Tele PCC88 
  
 My amp is 2-3 weeks away at this point but no harm in getting the tubes ready


----------



## bflat

jp11801 said:


> Ok just ordered the Mjolnir 2 and have these tube sets at the house (prior to setting out for more) any thoughts on these paired with the LCD X or the Audio Technica W 3000's
> 
> Siemens E88cc
> Amperex Orange Globe Ecc88 Holland
> ...


 

 I would recommend you order a couple of these if you are going to try all of the above:
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm
  
 Makes it a million times easier to get tubes in and out.


----------



## DWbirdseye

bflat said:


> I would recommend you order a couple of these if you are going to try all of the above:
> 
> http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm
> 
> Makes it a million times easier to get tubes in and out.



I see that these come from G.B., are these not available here in the U.S.?


----------



## JK-47

jp11801 said:


> Ok just ordered the Mjolnir 2 and have these tube sets at the house (prior to setting out for more) any thoughts on these paired with the LCD X or the Audio Technica W 3000's
> 
> Siemens E88cc
> Amperex Orange Globe Ecc88 Holland
> ...


 
  
  
 ENJOY !!!


----------



## shultzee

bflat said:


> jp11801 said:
> 
> 
> > Ok just ordered the Mjolnir 2 and have these tube sets at the house (prior to setting out for more) any thoughts on these paired with the LCD X or the Audio Technica W 3000's
> ...


 

 +1    I have a pair as well and they make removing the tubes much easier.  Looks cool with the tubes elevated as well.


----------



## bflat

dwbirdseye said:


> I see that these come from G.B., are these not available here in the U.S.?


 

 It's a store in the US. The parts are from UK.


----------



## DWbirdseye

bflat said:


> It's a store in the US. The parts are from UK.



OK thanks. The website says (paraphrasing) throw in some tubes since shipping is a flat fee. Since I am a newbie with respect to tube rolling, can you recommend any of their tubes.


----------



## shultzee

dwbirdseye said:


> bflat said:
> 
> 
> > It's a store in the US. The parts are from UK.
> ...


 
 I would do some research on tubes.   Although a different website this will explain some of the different 6922 tubes for MJ2  http://www.upscaleaudio.com/search.php?search_query=6922&Search=
  
 Also here on headfi RB2013 has done a comparison    http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes/225#post_12029615
  
 One thing I have learned is buy the best pair you can afford at the time instead of always looking to upgrade as it gets very expensive.


----------



## rb2013

shultzee said:


> I would do some research on tubes.   Although a different website this will explain some of the different 6922 tubes for MJ2  http://www.upscaleaudio.com/search.php?search_query=6922&Search=
> 
> Also here on headfi RB2013 has done a comparison    http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes/225#post_12029615
> 
> One thing I have learned is buy the best pair you can afford at the time instead of always looking to upgrade as it gets very expensive.


 

 Hey guys!  Hope you're all enjoying the MJ2 HG combination.  I just updated the 6992 Tube review thread with a new find - check it out!
  
 Cheers


----------



## DWbirdseye

shultzee said:


> I would do some research on tubes.   Although a different website this will explain some of the different 6922 tubes for MJ2  http://www.upscaleaudio.com/search.php?search_query=6922&Search=
> 
> Also here on headfi RB2013 has done a comparison    http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes/225#post_12029615
> 
> One thing I have learned is buy the best pair you can afford at the time instead of always looking to upgrade as it gets very expensive.



Very, very helpful. When I was researching the MJ 2 I believe I came across this thread, but you know how it goes when you're reading through hundreds of posts. Thanks


----------



## shultzee

dwbirdseye said:


> shultzee said:
> 
> 
> > I would do some research on tubes.   Although a different website this will explain some of the different 6922 tubes for MJ2  http://www.upscaleaudio.com/search.php?search_query=6922&Search=
> ...


 

 Your welcome.   Happy Tube hunting.  Also whatever you end up buying give them some time to burn in.


----------



## watchnerd

trastan said:


> I've been reading the Mjolnir (1) thread, and a lot of folks are saying that the Mjolnir needs around eight hours of warm up time to sound good, and that it's wise to just leave it on all the time, if possible. Obviously that's not a great idea if you're running tubes.


 
  
 Other than wearing out tubes quicker, what is the concern with leaving it on all the time?


----------



## reddog

watchnerd said:


> Other than wearing out tubes quicker, what is the concern with leaving it on all the time?



I never leave my MJ2 on all the time. I never leave any of my tube amps all the time. I only leave my dacs on all the time.


----------



## watchnerd

reddog said:


> I never leave my MJ2 on all the time. I never leave any of my tube amps all the time. I only leave my dacs on all the time.


 
  
 Interesting. I always leave my tube amps on all the time.  Saves me having to wait a long time to listen to music.


----------



## shultzee

I don't leave mine on all the time because I don't want to shorten the life of my tubes.  The mj2 warms up very fast imho.


----------



## watchnerd

shultzee said:


> I don't leave mine on all the time because I don't want to shorten the life of my tubes.  The mj2 warms up very fast imho.


 
  
 When I get home from work late at night, I don't want to wait 30 min for it to get up to temp.


----------



## Doneko

watchnerd said:


> When I get home from work late at night, I don't want to wait 30 min for it to get up to temp.


 

 You can get a Belin Wemo Switch and program it to turn on your amp automatically every night before you get home and turn off after you go to sleep. You can even turn it on and off with your phone. Simple, cool, carefree.


----------



## watchnerd

doneko said:


> You can get a Belin Wemo Switch and program it to turn on your amp automatically every night before you get home and turn off after you go to sleep. You can even turn it on and off with your phone. Simple, cool, carefree.


 
  
 That is an awesome suggestion!
  
 Thanks so much!


----------



## DWbirdseye

I just received notice that my MJ2 has shipped and will arrive on Saturday - super pumped!


----------



## jp11801

anyone know if the 7j8/pcc88 will work without issues in the MJ2 , from what I read it should be no problem but I'd love to hear from anyone that has actually used them successfully in the amp


----------



## rb2013

jp11801 said:


> anyone know if the 7j8/pcc88 will work without issues in the MJ2 , from what I read it should be no problem but I'd love to hear from anyone that has actually used them successfully in the amp


 
 I believe the MJ2 compatibility list is the same as the Lyr2:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

dwbirdseye said:


> I just received notice that my MJ2 has shipped and will arrive on Saturday - super pumped!


 
 i figured you would be super amped now?


----------



## DWbirdseye

Still waiting for  Fed X ..................


----------



## Jazz1

Would this be a good amp for a Hifiman HE-560. Is there any reason I could not use my Music Fidelity M1 DAC until I can afford the Schitt companion DAC?


----------



## ziis

I see nobody has mentioned Telefunken PCC88 / 7DJ8. Got a pair from upscale because of the intriguing description:
  


> *Telefunken PCC88/7DJ8 -* This is a 7 volt version of the super-expensive, impossible to find 6DJ8. Smooth highs that maintain extension without being bright, with great detail and texture in the mids.
> 7DJ8/PCC88 are a great choice.  They are absolutely compatible with virtually any product that uses 6922 and 6DJ8   Whether it's an amp, preamp, CD player, whatever.   You still need to pick a good one of course.  And one that meets your sonic requiremements.  And Upscale Audio doesn't sell any sucky ones.  But understand this:  You are in essence getting tasty stuff for half what you would pay if they were labeled 6DJ8 instead of 7DJ8.  They will operate the same.  Trust Uncle Kevvy on this one.


 
  
 I actually like them a lot with MJ2 and HD800. Sound amazing.


----------



## shultzee

ziis said:


> I see nobody has mentioned Telefunken PCC88 / 7DJ8. Got a pair from upscale because of the intriguing description:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Awesome.   They will sound even better with some run time.


----------



## jjacq

Curious, how do you guys store your tubes?

 Also I know there's another brand other than the socket savers I can get but what are they called? I'm always having a hard time removing the tubes I have.


----------



## DWbirdseye

Received a package of Schiit yesterday and I have to say Schiit never looked or sounded better. I'm still in the break-in phase, but my initial impressions are very positive. Right out of the box I noticed better imaging, more air between the instruments, more bass control and a wider sound stage. This is with the lisst tubes in place. The brushed aluminum is nice but, my oh my does, it scratches easily. There's also some kind of film on the aluminum which creates an uneven look when you touch the chassis and compare to an area that has not been touched. 
  
 I've  been checking out audiophile tubes (top 17) and with the asking prices, I'm going to assume these are the equivalent of audiophile crack. I suppose there are deals out there on ebay and I've been perusing the tube section. In the meantime I'm going to enjoy my new amp and figure out what I want in the way of sq, but generally speaking I don't think I want to alter the sound too much, but rather enhance and dig deeper into the recordings. 
  
 This is going to be fun and this site has been an unbelievable source of information. Oh. and yes this amp produces heat, but I'm ok since it's snowing here in the mile high city. Cheers, Bob


----------



## shultzee

jjacq said:


> Curious, how do you guys store your tubes?
> 
> Also I know there's another brand other than the socket savers I can get but what are they called? I'm always having a hard time removing the tubes I have.


 

 Here are some cheaper ones on eBay   http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-9-PIN-TUBE-SOCKET-SAVER-FOR-ECC81-12AT7-ECC82-12AU7-ECC83-12AX7-ECC88-E88CC-/300937663411


----------



## P4UL

jjacq said:


> Curious, how do you guys store your tubes?
> 
> 
> Also I know there's another brand other than the socket savers I can get but what are they called? I'm always having a hard time removing the tubes I have.



I store mine in a pelican case with pelican desiccant (check my profile for exact model). I also use the paper tube boxes for my NOS that don't come with boxes. Also even with socket savers, it can be a pain to tube roll. I recommend something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/111832075680?ul_noapp=true&ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F711-117182-37290-0%252F2%253Fmtid%253D1588%2526kwid%253D1%2526crlp%253D53601919689_324272%2526itemid%253D111832075680%2526targetid%253D154774685289%2526rpc%253D0.13%2526rpc_upld_id%253D60211%2526rlsatarget%253Dpla-154774685289%2526device%253Dm%2526mpre%253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.com%25252Fulk%25252Fitm%25252Flike%25252F111832075680%25253Flpid%25253D82%252526chn%25253Dps%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526loc%253D9011164%2526poi%253D9011144%2526campaignid%253D239125209%2526adgroupid%253D14978428809%2526gclid%253DCLTmqdjT18kCFRQlgQodv2YCNw%2526srcrot%253D711-117182-37290-0%2526rvr_id%253D949398726495&chn=ps&lpid=82


----------



## shultzee

jjacq said:


> Curious, how do you guys store your tubes?
> 
> Also I know there's another brand other than the socket savers I can get but what are they called? I'm always having a hard time removing the tubes I have.


 
 Someone here recommended a trick to remove tubes and it works like a charm.  Take a small pc.  of cellophane and wrap around the tube.  The cellophane grips the tube and also your fingers.    With the socket savers I don't need to do that anymore but it did come in handy.


----------



## rb2013

shultzee said:


> Here are some cheaper ones on eBay   http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-9-PIN-TUBE-SOCKET-SAVER-FOR-ECC81-12AT7-ECC82-12AU7-ECC83-12AX7-ECC88-E88CC-/300937663411


 

 Back on the Lyr tube rolling thread there were comparisons of the various socket savers and risers.  I would caution to stay away from the cheap Chinese ebay versions - you can tells these by the screw in the middle.
  
 Tubemonger's risers are the best - I have had both kinds and prefer these.  I have tube rolled so much I'm on my third pair - they will wear out with enough use (hundreds of swaps).
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm


----------



## shultzee

rb2013 said:


> shultzee said:
> 
> 
> > Here are some cheaper ones on eBay   http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-9-PIN-TUBE-SOCKET-SAVER-FOR-ECC81-12AT7-ECC82-12AU7-ECC83-12AX7-ECC88-E88CC-/300937663411
> ...


 

 I have the tube monger ones as well and love them.   He was looking for a cheaper version and I reluctantly provided a answer lol.


----------



## rb2013

shultzee said:


> I have the tube monger ones as well and love them.   He was looking for a cheaper version and I reluctantly provided a answer lol.


 

 Some folks on the Lyr said the Chinese Ebay ones detracted from the sound - in all my testing on the tubermonger ones I could not tell any difference plus or minus with theirs.  Which is a good thing I guess.


----------



## Jazz1

OK. Is this a crazy plan? Buy the MJOLNIR 2, and use it two months (with the Musical Fidelty DAC) until I can afford the GUNGNIR? Headphones in use HD-650, HE-560, and HE-400i. Eventually getting a HD-800s. Source, AIFF files via iMac.


----------



## Astral Abyss

dwbirdseye said:


> Received a package of Schiit yesterday and I have to say Schiit never looked or sounded better. I'm still in the break-in phase, but my initial impressions are very positive. Right out of the box I noticed better imaging, more air between the instruments, more bass control and a wider sound stage. This is with the lisst tubes in place. The brushed aluminum is nice but, my oh my does, it scratches easily. There's also some kind of film on the aluminum which creates an uneven look when you touch the chassis and compare to an area that has not been touched.




Welcome to the exciting world of brushed aluminum, where every touch, wipe, and brush against it adds new unique, never to be removed "detail" to it. I remember when brushed aluminum computer cases were the rage, holy crap try working on or moving an aluminum paneled computer and not jacking up the finish.

Does look amazing though...


----------



## Sorpanino

I love it personally


----------



## Arnotts

jazz1 said:


> OK. Is this a crazy plan? Buy the MJOLNIR 2, and use it two months (with the Musical Fidelty DAC) until I can afford the GUNGNIR? Headphones in use HD-650, HE-560, and HE-400i. Eventually getting a HD-800s. Source, AIFF files via iMac.


 

 That's a great plan, man.
  
 Sell the HE400i's, mod your HD650's and EQ/mod the HD800's.
  
 And either stick with LISST if you want neutral tonality, or get some NOS tubes to maximize the pleasure listening experience.
  
 Then that's it, leave Head-Fi and enjoy the audio.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

jazz1 said:


> OK. Is this a crazy plan? Buy the MJOLNIR 2, and use it two months (with the Musical Fidelty DAC) until I can afford the GUNGNIR? Headphones in use HD-650, HE-560, and HE-400i. Eventually getting a HD-800s. Source, AIFF files via iMac.


 
 Great plan. My first DAC was a Musical Fidelity VDAC1, and it was wonderful (though now gone). That should hold you over until the Gungnir.


----------



## Jazz1

Thanks for the advice on the equipment. My spouse would second your idea to leave Headfi.org forever  But I keep telling her there are worse, but less expensive vices


----------



## crazychile

shultzee said:


> rb2013 said:
> 
> 
> > shultzee said:
> ...


 

  I have the cheap ones that I've been using for a year or so. They tend to come out with the tube. I think I might upgrade to better ones but I don't swap tubes around as much as some of you guys.


----------



## crazychile

arnotts said:


> (edit)
> ....And either stick with LISST if you want neutral tonality, or get some NOS tubes to maximize the pleasure listening experience.


 
  
 So am I the only one that really wasn't impressed with the LISSTs? I like that they make the Lyr 2 run cool and I can leave it on all the time, but there is no amount of warm up time that makes them sound nearly as good as the stock Lyr tubes. (Which are nothing to brag about either).


----------



## ziis

jjacq said:


> Curious, how do you guys store your tubes?
> 
> Also I know there's another brand other than the socket savers I can get but what are they called? I'm always having a hard time removing the tubes I have.


 
 I just put on a pair of latex gloves, which increase a lot of friction and also avoid leaving fingerprints onto the tubes. Works like a charm.


----------



## DWbirdseye

So I decided to stick my toes in the water today. I ordered a pair of amperex bugle boys ecc88 1965 (Holland) from mercedesman for $69.99. Looking up, down and all around, prices varied from mine with good test results to others as high as $249/pair. > These were red tipped from 1961. Mercesdesman comes recommended. Within an hour of placing my order I received a shipping confirmation. Let the fun begin!
On another matter, my lissts run hot. I expected this with tubes, but not lissts. Is this normal?


----------



## Asym9

dwbirdseye said:


> So I decided to stick my toes in the water today. I ordered a pair of amperex bugle boys ecc88 1965 (Holland) from mercedesman for $69.99. Looking up, down and all around, prices varied from mine with good test results to others as high as $249/pair. > These were red tipped from 1961. Mercesdesman comes recommended. Within an hour of placing my order I received a shipping confirmation. Let the fun begin!
> On another matter, my lissts run hot. I expected this with tubes, but not lissts. Is this normal?


 

 I've been using socket savers for a couple months, so my LISSTs (and tubes too, for that matter) don't run as hot as they did without. Prior to using the socket savers, my LISSTs weren't so hot that I couldn't roll them immediately after powering down and unplugging. With tubes, that was out of the question with bare fingers.
  
 +1 on dealing with Mercedesman. Very prompt and fast shipping has been the norm every time.


----------



## Jazz1

Okay, I'm pretty convinced by these threads to order the tubes, but what about the LISST? I admit I grew up with solid state with the exception of a vintage tube AM radio (to listen to WBZ Boston during the wee hours from the Midwest) and Ray Samuels' wonderful Raptor. Are both the tube and the LISST options the best of both worlds? I'm not seeing as many LISST advocates vs. tubes. Then again Ray's Raptor Star Wars like "force' is strong


----------



## jp11801

just fired up the MJ2 after some FedEx issues and the amp suns really fantastic - way better than I thought it would, Started with the Siemens E88cc (sounded fantastic) and now swapped in the Tele 7DJ8 PCC88 (not as great but going to let them settle in a for a while  
  
 Oh and dang you guys I ordered the Reflektor 74 silver shield since wire getter and the tube risers from tube monger along with some Ediswans


----------



## shultzee

jp11801 said:


> just fired up the MJ2 after some FedEx issues and the amp suns really fantastic - way better than I thought it would, Started with the Siemens E88cc (sounded fantastic) and now swapped in the Tele 7DJ8 PCC88 (not as great but going to let them settle in a for a while
> 
> Oh and dang you guys I ordered the Reflektor 74 silver shield since wire getter and the tube risers from tube monger along with some Ediswans


 

 Those reflectors will make you smile    .         I have found that all the tubes unless used need some burn in time to really open up,  but you may already know that.  Enjoy


----------



## shultzee

Tube savers show off those tubes as well as not wearing out the sockets if you do a lot of rollin.


----------



## m0nster

Would anyone mind posting a picture of a complete rack including dac and source.
I want to get jealous :-D


----------



## crazychile

jazz1 said:


> Okay, I'm pretty convinced by these threads to order the tubes, but what about the LISST? I admit I grew up with solid state with the exception of a vintage tube AM radio (to listen to WBZ Boston during the wee hours from the Midwest) and Ray Samuels' wonderful Raptor. Are both the tube and the LISST options the best of both worlds? I'm not seeing as many LISST advocates vs. tubes. Then again Ray's Raptor Star Wars like "force' is strong


 

 Unless there's a reason why you'll need to have your amp on 24/7 (or heat is an issue), skip the LISSTs and just buy some decent tubes.


----------



## tuxbass

Is this the correct socket savers for MJ2 ?
 http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm


----------



## shultzee

tuxbass said:


> Is this the correct socket savers for MJ2 ?
> http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm


 

 Yes it is.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Anyone here have any experince with going from Vali to Mj2? I was wondering what differences I would be paying for if i upgraded..... Current Headphone is K712, and i have a Modi for the DAC. Listening to FLAC on Tidal (until it expires in 2 months  jumped on that bandwagon of 3 months for $20....). Any direction would be nice, and feel free to Pm me if you would like.


----------



## Arnotts

bunnynamedfrank said:


> Anyone here have any experince with going from Vali to Mj2? I was wondering what differences I would be paying for if i upgraded..... Current Headphone is K712, and i have a Modi for the DAC. Listening to FLAC on Tidal (until it expires in 2 months  jumped on that bandwagon of 3 months for $20....). Any direction would be nice, and feel free to Pm me if you would like.


 

 Upgrade your headphones and your DAC first. When you listen to your headphones, you're listening through an audio chain.
  Any weak links will be a bottleneck. There's no point having such a high end amplifier if your DAC and headphones are bottlenecks.


----------



## crazychile

arnotts said:


> bunnynamedfrank said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone here have any experince with going from Vali to Mj2? I was wondering what differences I would be paying for if i upgraded..... Current Headphone is K712, and i have a Modi for the DAC. Listening to FLAC on Tidal (until it expires in 2 months  jumped on that bandwagon of 3 months for $20....). Any direction would be nice, and feel free to Pm me if you would like.
> ...


 

@Arnotts advice is solid, and has been my experience as well. I've mentioned this in other threads, but when I owned K702s, I upgraded from the Vali to the Lyr 2. That almost seemed like a side step to me, despite the Lyr 2 having gobs more power. A couple of weeks later I upgraded from the Modi to the Bifrost Uber. THAT was a significant upgrade. I'm slowly learning that I'm becoming a "Source matters" kinda guy, assuming the rest of the system is at least adequate.
  
 My next Schiit upgrade will be Yggdrasil. I'm done with these incremental source upgrades....


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

crazychile said:


> @Arnotts
> advice is solid, and has been my experience as well. I've mentioned this in other threads, but when I owned K702s, I upgraded from the Vali to the Lyr 2. That almost seemed like a side step to me, despite the Lyr 2 having gobs more power. A couple of weeks later I upgraded from the Modi to the Bifrost Uber. THAT was a significant upgrade. I'm slowly learning that I'm becoming a "Source matters" kinda guy, assuming the rest of the system is at least adequate.
> 
> My next Schiit upgrade will be Yggdrasil. I'm done with these incremental source upgrades....




Thanks both you guys for advice, ill take it to heart. I feel like my next headphone choice would be The Ether or something in that price range. Right now I could just afford to get the amp. That's why I was wondering if it would improve my k712's any. I guess it's time to get a better DAC or save for a new can


----------



## watchnerd

jjacq said:


> Curious, how do you guys store your tubes?


 
  
 In the freezer.


----------



## m usicguy

Hi Schiit audio fans
  
 Tube savers?
  
 How do you get these back out of the amp ?  After you install them?


----------



## rb2013

m usicguy said:


> Hi Schiit audio fans
> 
> Tube savers?
> 
> How do you get these back out of the amp ?  After you install them?


 

 This my technique - insert a tube into the saver - then carefully tilt to one side with gentle upward pressure - then to the opposite side.  Wiggling the saver up and out.  If the tube slips out to easily - just move the pins a very small amount inward with your finger nail.  If it hurts your pushing to hard.
  
 Now if you want or need to frequently remove the saver (why would you) you can use a length of unused dental floss between the pins across the middle bottom of the saver.  Leave the floss tails out to be reached easily.  Just a gentle pull and the saver will come out.
  
 Or get a pair of these
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/781613/tube-puller-tool-pliers
  
 Good Luck!


----------



## JohnBal

rb2013 said:


> This my technique - insert a tube into the saver - then carefully tilt to one side with gentle upward pressure - then to the opposite side.  Wiggling the saver up and out.  If the tube slips out to easily - just move the pins a very small amount inward with your finger nail.  If it hurts your pushing to hard.
> 
> *Now if you want or need to frequently remove the saver (why would you) you can use a length of unused dental floss between the pins across the middle bottom of the saver.  Leave the floss tails out to be reached easily.  Just a gentle pull and the saver will come out.*
> 
> ...


 
 I never would have thought of that. Wow.


----------



## rb2013

johnbal said:


> I never would have thought of that. Wow.


 

 Your choice waxed or unwaxed -mint or regular!


----------



## zachawry

Trying to decide between the MJ2 and the Woo WA6-SE. Can anyone provide any comparisons? 
  
 Also, if I run my Hugo (single-ended) into the MJ2, is there a phase splitter to provide balanced output? 
  
 Thanks. 
  
 (Will be using this for my Ethers, primarily.)


----------



## hrq12345

zachawry said:


> Trying to decide between the MJ2 and the Woo WA6-SE. Can anyone provide any comparisons?
> 
> Also, if I run my Hugo (single-ended) into the MJ2, is there a phase splitter to provide balanced output?
> 
> ...


 
 I am using Hugo to MJ2. No problem using balanced output!


----------



## shultzee

zachawry said:


> Trying to decide between the MJ2 and the Woo WA6-SE. Can anyone provide any comparisons?
> 
> Also, if I run my Hugo (single-ended) into the MJ2, is there a phase splitter to provide balanced output?
> 
> ...


 

 I have had them Both but using different gear.  Can't give a honest comparison but I personally like the Mj 2 better.


----------



## elwappo99

zachawry said:


> Trying to decide between the MJ2 and the Woo WA6-SE. Can anyone provide any comparisons?
> 
> Also, if I run my Hugo (single-ended) into the MJ2, is there a phase splitter to provide balanced output?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've never found the WA stuff to perform anywhere near it's asking price. A good chunk of what you pay is into the casing around it. WA6 does sound quite good, but IMO i'd place it in the $600 range in terms of audio performance, YMMV.


----------



## zachawry

schiitdrummer said:


> Highs: Crisp, some sparkle bit like a fairy fart, Detailed.  There were sounds that previously went unnoticed in tracks I tested. Mjolnir 2's lightning lit up the corners of the music file like a Chinese chemical plant.
> Thus ends impressions.


 
  
This description sold me on the amp.  
  
 Now ordering as soon as I can sell some older stuff.....


----------



## THOHFO

For using as a headphone amp only, is it worth to get a Ragnarok than a Mjolnir 2?  Thanks.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ I don't own either (yet) but general points to consider: same engineering excellence in both; key difference is Mj2 runs tubes and therefore the sound can be tuned to preference *but* tubes are an additional cost. Rag does not and can not *but* no additional cost.


----------



## watchnerd

thohfo said:


> For using as a headphone amp only, is it worth to get a Ragnarok than a Mjolnir 2?  Thanks.


 
  
 I have the Mjolnir 2.  I don't have the Ragnarok, nor have I heard it.
  
 But just looking at it from a cost/specs/engineering point of view, both have more power into headphones than you can ever really use.  Both have balanced inputs/outputs.  
  
 If you're using it for headphones only, then the speaker ouput portion is just wasted money that won't be used.
  
 The only exception I can think of is if you need all 5 inputs that the Ragnarok provides.


----------



## m0nster

Hello everyone

Does someone here have an idea where I could buy a used Gungnir multibit and/or Mjolnir 2?
Would absolutely love to hear it, but you know the wallet problem, guys 

Have a good listen!


----------



## reddog

thohfo said:


> For using as a headphone amp only, is it worth to get a Ragnarok than a Mjolnir 2?  Thanks.



The Mjolnir 2 is a very nice amp, and its cool to alter the sound signature, with tubes. However the Ragnarock sounds better, its more transparent and revealing than the MJ2 or even my Liquid Crimson. Furthermore the Ragnarock almost has this tube like quality to the sound, which can be addicting. The only other amp that I have, that sounds better than my Ragnarock, is my Liquid Glass, and only with certain tubes. I use my MJ2 everyday, mostly for gaming. I use the Rag and LG for critical listening. I highly recommend the Mjolnir 2, but if you can afford the Ragnarock, then by all means snag it.


----------



## THOHFO

Thanks everyone for input.  I am inclined to get a Mjolnir 2, mainly from cost / benefit perspective, since I need a headphone amp only.


----------



## watchnerd

thohfo said:


> Thanks everyone for input.  I am inclined to get a Mjolnir 2, mainly from cost / benefit perspective, since I need a headphone amp only.


 
  
 Also, what headphones are you using?
  
 Schiit believes the best performance out of the MJ2 (and presumably the Ragnarok, too) is had via the balanced chain.


----------



## zachawry

reddog said:


> The Mjolnir 2 is a very nice amp, and its cool to alter the sound signature, with tubes. However the Ragnarock sounds better, its more transparent and revealing than the MJ2 or even my Liquid Crimson. Furthermore the Ragnarock almost has this tube like quality to the sound, which can be addicting. The only other amp that I have, that sounds better than my Ragnarock, is my Liquid Glass, and only with certain tubes. I use my MJ2 everyday, mostly for gaming. I use the Rag and LG for critical listening. I highly recommend the Mjolnir 2, but if you can afford the Ragnarock, then by all means snag it.


 

 What do you say to the common opinion that the Rag can be a little forward or aggressive?


----------



## THOHFO

I am using Audeze LCD XC; hope that it will work well with MJ2.


----------



## watchnerd

thohfo said:


> I am using Audeze LCD XC; hope that it will work well with MJ2.


 
  
 Okay, so you should already have a balanced/XLR cable that came with it.  This will allow for max output.  Sounds like you're good to go!


----------



## reddog

zachawry said:


> What do you say to the common opinion that the Rag can be a little forward or aggressive?



Hmm I relistened to several cd's and with my humble ears, I just do not feel the Ragnarock is a little forward. But I will go back and honestly listen to my cd's and see if I detect the sound is forward. Perhaps the Yggdrasil mellows out the forward inclination of the Ragnarock.


----------



## zachawry

reddog said:


> Hmm I relistened to several cd's and with my humble ears, I just do not feel the Ragnarock is a little forward. But I will go back and honestly listen to my cd's and see if I detect the sound is forward. Perhaps the Yggdrasil mellows out the forward inclination of the Ragnarock.


 

 If you don't think that's true, that's great. I personally have no plans for the Ragnarock. I want to get the MJ2, then I am absolutely positively not spending any more money on headphone equipment for the remainder of the decade.


----------



## reddog

zachawry said:


> If you don't think that's true, that's great. I personally have no plans for the Ragnarock. I want to get the MJ2, then I am absolutely positively not spending any more money on headphone equipment for the remainder of the decade.



Lol.


----------



## zachawry

reddog said:


> Lol.


 
  
 My Liquid Carbon hasn't even arrived yet, and I'm already scheming for a tube amp, including those Telfunkens you keep on going on about.
  
 What does this say about me?


----------



## zachawry

Who here uses their MJ2 as a pre-amp? I'm kinda curious how it would make my Krell amp and Dynaudios sound. 
  
 Might be awesome, or it might be just a little excessive. Or extremely excessive.
  
 Is the SQ the same for XLR or RCA pre-amp outs?


----------



## jp11801

I have used the MJ2 to feed my Genelec 8050 monitors and I like the sound, I just need to compare that to feeding them direct from my Metric Halo ULN - 8


----------



## George Chronis

zachawry said:


> Who here uses their MJ2 as a pre-amp? I'm kinda curious how it would make my Krell amp and Dynaudios sound.
> 
> Might be awesome, or it might be just a little excessive. Or extremely excessive.
> 
> Is the SQ the same for XLR or RCA pre-amp outs?




I use an MJ2 (and until recently a MJ) as pre to a Parasound Halo A23 driving the Nautilus 805's. I think it's an excellent combo, but even on low gain, I can't go past 12 o' clock on the pot, though it's admittedly a small room (15' x 14'). Also, the A23 is at 75% power, which is not recommended by Parasound (manual says to have it all the way up), but again that would leave me with very little play on the MJ2 pot.

Oh, and all connections are balanced. Source is a Mac mini to a Gungnir MB or sometimes a Marantz 8001 SACD.


----------



## kurb1980

I just got my HD800's and the pairing of these with the Mj2 outstanding.  I think I actually like the HD800's touch more than my HE:6's I think its the soundstage and pin point imaging that's drawing my in.  I thought the bass was gonna be lacking but boy was I wrong the 800's are right there with the HE:6's maybe even a tough tighter.


----------



## DWbirdseye

100+ hours of burn in on MJ2, 100+ on LCD2 F and 50+ on Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8 1965 matched pair. Whew! Everything is really, really coming together. The MJ2 is one very fine amp: total control of bass, beautiful midrange and nice extended airy, sparkling highs. I only regret not purchasing the companion gungnir mb along with the MJ2. Now I have to go through this tedious process all over again. Patience is required. There were times when I wanted to stomp on the bugle boys, I'm glad I waited.


----------



## jp11801

Holy Schiit those 74 Reflektor SWGP tubes are fabulous, I picked up an slightly overpriced quad off eBay and they sound delicious. I just ordered a quad of 75 Reflektor SWGP on the strength of these. So far they blow away the Tele, Amperex O globes and PQs as well as the Siemens I have. While expensive for "Russian tubes" they are a steal compared to US, German and Holland tubes.


----------



## watchnerd

I can't wait to get my miniDSP so I can start simulating vacuum tubes before I buy them.


----------



## shultzee

jp11801 said:


> Holy Schiit those 74 Reflektor SWGP tubes are fabulous, I picked up an slightly overpriced quad off eBay and they sound delicious. I just ordered a quad of 75 Reflektor SWGP on the strength of these. So far they blow away the Tele, Amperex O globes and PQs as well as the Siemens I have. While expensive for "Russian tubes" they are a steal compared to US, German and Holland tubes.


 

 Got em both.  I agree


----------



## Argo Duck

Could you please break this down? The terms "delicious", "fabulous" and "blow away" are all great but don't really tell us _what_ is different about them! TIA 



jp11801 said:


> Holy Schiit those 74 Reflektor SWGP tubes are fabulous, I picked up an slightly overpriced quad off eBay and they sound delicious. I just ordered a quad of 75 Reflektor SWGP on the strength of these. So far they blow away the Tele, Amperex O globes and PQs as well as the Siemens I have. While expensive for "Russian tubes" they are a steal compared to US, German and Holland tubes.


----------



## jp11801

argo duck said:


> Could you please break this down? The terms "delicious", "fabulous" and "blow away" are all great but don't really tell us _what_ is different about them! TIA


 
  
  
 Here are some of my off the cuff  thoughts, after the new year I may do a something in greater detail. 
  
 The Tele p88cc were good and very linear in sound but lacked a little in decay and depth, The Amperex PQs I have were better but not as tonaly rich as the Reflector 74s they also did not have the bass depth the Reflectors have as well, The Amprex Orange Globe A frames are excellent but again they had good tonality but not as rich as the Reflectors and my Siemens are really good maybe my favorite of the non-Russians but again the tonality is not as good and I find in every case there appears to be more detail from the reflectors. So yeah I was blown away by the fabulous and delicious tone these tubes produced! While I likely did pay an inflated eBay price for these (both the 74 and the 75) I am very happy with my choice, while parting with the other 6dj8 tubes in my stash would be foolish I easily could live happily ever after with the 74 reflektors and have high hopes for the 75s that are on their way. 
  
 I would caution people that read these that these are the Reflekors that were in rb2013s shoot out, forgive me but I was highly skeptical of the placement of these tubes in the shoot out but to my ears they are winners. That said if you like a drier presentation you may not like these. I would encourage MJ2 owners that are trying several top tubes to try at least the 74 or the 75 reflectors.


----------



## DWbirdseye

jp11801 said:


> Holy Schiit those 74 Reflektor SWGP tubes are fabulous, I picked up an slightly overpriced quad off eBay and they sound delicious. I just ordered a quad of 75 Reflektor SWGP on the strength of these. So far they blow away the Tele, Amperex O globes and PQs as well as the Siemens I have. While expensive for "Russian tubes" they are a steal compared to US, German and Holland tubes.



I just received my HG Reflektors '75 silver SWGP and Voskhod '75 gray sheilds from rb0002009 (Bob). This weekend I should be at the 100 hour burn-in for my bugle boys at which time I will begin the burn-in process for the Russians. Is audio nirvana just around the corner? Lol


----------



## Astral Abyss

dwbirdseye said:


> I just received my HG Reflektors '75 silver SWGP and Voskhod '75 gray sheilds from rb0002009 (Bob). This weekend I should be at the 100 hour burn-in for my bugle boys at which time I will begin the burn-in process for the Russians. Is audio nirvana just around the corner? Lol


 
  
 In a word, yes.  The '75 Reflektor HGs are my favorite tubes.


----------



## jp11801

Did you find the 75's to be that much better than the 74's in your estimation? I am really curious to hear the differences between the two.


----------



## Astral Abyss

jp11801 said:


> Did you find the 75's to be that much better than the 74's in your estimation? I am really curious to hear the differences between the two.


 
  
 Haven't heard the 74s.  You'll have to tell me.  I'm curious also, since they were significantly cheaper.  But rb2013 had a pair of 75 HGs that were perfectly matched by date and output levels, and 0 noise at any gain level, so I had to go for them.


----------



## jp11801

Once they come in probably mid January I think I'll do a mini shootout with the tubes I have 7 different pairs.


----------



## prismstorm

hrq12345 said:


> I am using Hugo to MJ2. No problem using balanced output!




How are you connecting that? 

I'm looking to use Mojo into a MJ2, but all I have is a mundane 3.5 to RCA cable


----------



## hrq12345

I am just using RCA cables. Not sure if Mojo would work.


----------



## prismstorm

hrq12345 said:


> I am just using RCA cables. Not sure if Mojo would work.


 
 You can run it balanced from a Mojo with RCA cables?
  
 I was just envisioning plugging USB cable from my iMac to Mojo then line that out to a MJ2 via the 3.5 to RCA cable and run the whole chain single-ended, until I can gradually add the GMB and run the entire thing balanced.


----------



## annar

As I already own Lyr 1 and LCDf 2.2's my query is simply , 
 Is it seriously worth the extra $$ to get an MJ2  to upgrade from Lyr 1  or- is Woo WA6SE a better idea?
 Anna


----------



## watchnerd

annar said:


> As I already own Lyr 1 and LCDf 2.2's my query is simply ,
> Is it seriously worth the extra $$ to get an MJ2  to upgrade from Lyr 1  or- is Woo WA6SE a better idea?
> Anna


 
  
 That's a totally apples vs oranges question.
  
 Do you want a true fully balanced hybrid tube topology or a single ended triode topology?


----------



## Argo Duck

^ And - for Anna's benefit - the differences in sound, advantages/disadvantages and cost/benefit considerations in your view are...?


----------



## watchnerd

argo duck said:


> ^ And - for Anna's benefit - the differences in sound, advantages/disadvantages and cost/benefit considerations in your view are...?


 
  
 I'm biased, as I chose the Mjolnir 2.  
  
 That being said, a truly balanced topology is objectively superior to a single-ended one in matters of channel separation, crosstalk, and S/N ratio to a single-ended triode. The hybrid nature of the also MJ2 gives the option of having a lot of latitude to make the sound more 'tubey', while still retaining the benefits of a fully balanced design.
  
 But there are people who who swear that nothing sounds as good as to their ears a single ended triode, despite all the downsides.  They do definitely sound distinct.  Whether one prefers that sound to all others is a matter of taste.
  
 Whereas if I want to introduce more or less euphonia into the chain into the MJ2, I can put in the LISST for the most neutral option, put in a variety of tubes across a spectrum of flavors, or if I really want to get crazy, use DSP/plug-ins to simulate old vintage tubes in software.  
  
 Single-ended triodes, on the other hand, lock one into a particular sound.


----------



## jp11801

.


----------



## Ormia

watchnerd said:


> Whereas if I want to introduce more or less euphonia into the chain into the MJ2, I can put in the LISST for the most neutral option, put in a variety of tubes across a spectrum of flavors, or if I really want to get crazy, use DSP/plug-ins to simulate old vintage tubes in software.


 
  
 I think simulating how tubes sound is a brilliant idea. I'm relatively new to this scene. I am wondering what playback software do you use? What dsp filter plug-ins would you use to do the filtering? And where can one find data on filter characteristics of different tubes?


----------



## watchnerd

ormia said:


> I think simulating how tubes sound is a brilliant idea. I'm relatively new to this scene. I am wondering what playback software do you use? What dsp filter plug-ins would you use to do the filtering? And where can one find data on filter characteristics of different tubes?


 
  
 United Audio makes a bunch of SoftTube plugins that emulate their classic recording chain tube gear and are modeled after transfer functions from them.  They work with any DAW software that is capable of running UA plug-ins.
  
 Here is one example:
  
http://www.uaudio.com/store/equalizers/manley-massive-passive.html


----------



## silentmoon

I've got 6 pairs of nos/nib e288cc ( telefunken and siemens ) from my dad. Is it safe to put them in Mjolnir 2 ?


----------



## watchnerd

silentmoon said:


> I've got 6 pairs of nos/nib e288cc ( telefunken and siemens ) from my dad. Is it safe to put them in Mjolnir 2 ?


 
  
 I wouldn't.  The E288CC has twice the heater current, higher anode current, and higher Gm than the 6DJ88 family.


----------



## tjl5709

Well, I need to put in my 2 cents worth as I typically lurk aroung here to gain knowledge.
  
 I got my new stack today. Gumby and a Mojo2. Moved up from a Bifrost/lyr2.
  
 I'm 6 hours in running the new stack including a new set of Amperex 7308 tubes. (got allot of other glass that I built around the lyr)
  
 Decided to move up as the mogo2 can run the tubes I have already.
  
 A very simple term that should express my present thoughts. *OMG*
  
 My HD650's, Maddogs, and even my M50's never made my music sound like this.
  
 If all this stuff sound this way with a new set, I cannot imaging were it goes from here.
  
 It's scarry...........
  
 Just saying......


----------



## shultzee

tjl5709 said:


> Well, I need to put in my 2 cents worth as I typically lurk aroung here to gain knowledge.
> 
> I got my new stack today. Gumby and a Mojo2. Moved up from a Bifrost/lyr2.
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats.  Great gear.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'm curious whether anyone has A/B'd the K1000s on Mjolnir 2 and Ragnarok. The cans are notoriously power hungry, such that they were recommended for use with speaker amps, and I'm curious whether Mjolnir 2 is up to the challenge.


----------



## CrocCap

ive a/b'd the he-6 on the m2 and rag. m2 had no problem with he-6 on high gain, using balanced.  Dont think i was near the max volume, and i even preferred the m2 tube sound over the rag's solid state sound. as someone who does use speaker amps for my he-6, i still would recommend the m2.


----------



## jp11801

Wow just got my Yggy yesterday and the MJ2 - Yggy combo is sublime even after only 12 hours of play. I have to say this combo really works extremely well with the Audio Technica AD2000x.


----------



## reddog

jp11801 said:


> Wow just got my Yggy yesterday and the MJ2 - Yggy combo is sublime even after only 12 hours of play. I have to say this combo really works extremely well with the Audio Technica AD2000x.



Sweet that is great to hear. I really need to hear the AD 2000x. I love how my Yggdrasil and Ragnarock or MJ2 make my headphones sound bloody fantastic. I hope your rig always puts a big old smile on your face..


----------



## jp11801

Can't stop this HUGE grin - Pat Metheny Bright Size Life is just stunning through the Yggy-MJ 2 and my Genelec 8050 powered speakers. I've heard a lot of great sound having gone to RMAF 3 times, 2 Stereophile shows and VSAC and this is some of the best sound I've had. 
  
 The biggest trait is just the utter realism the tone, dynamics and detail all work together to have the speakers melt away.


----------



## DWbirdseye

^ high praise indeed.


----------



## claud W

reddog said:


> Sweet that is great to hear. I really need to hear the AD 2000x. I love how my Yggdrasil and Ragnarock or MJ2 make my headphones sound bloody fantastic. I hope your rig always puts a big old smile on your face..


 

 redog, how much SQ do you give up using MJ2 with Yaggy vs.the Rag?


----------



## Timmitus

For some reason, I'm having a difficult time finding comparisons between mj1 and mj2. Could someone give me a rundown? Thanks.


----------



## shultzee

timmitus said:


> For some reason, I'm having a difficult time finding comparisons between mj1 and mj2. Could someone give me a rundown? Thanks.


 

 The biggest difference is the MJ2 has tubes in the pre stage so you can shape the sound.  MJ2 can run as a tube amp with or solid state with the optional LISST tubes.
 Also the MJ2 has a SE output.


----------



## Timmitus

shultzee said:


> The biggest difference is the MJ2 has tubes in the pre stage so you can shape the sound.  MJ2 can run as a tube amp with or solid state with the optional LISST tubes.
> Also the MJ2 has a SE output.



Thanks. How about subjectively? Are there any frequency graphs around showing the different harmonics? It doesn't appear that anyone has tested these amps in a lab.


----------



## zachawry

timmitus said:


> Thanks. How about subjectively? Are there any frequency graphs around showing the different harmonics? It doesn't appear that anyone has tested these amps in a lab.


 

 Given the fact that one is a tube amp and one is solid state, I think the general consensus is that they are so different it's pointless to compare them.


----------



## Timmitus

zachawry said:


> Given the fact that one is a tube amp and one is solid state, I think the general consensus is that they are so different it's pointless to compare them.



Isn't mj2 hybrid? How do they compare with the lsst tubes?


----------



## zachawry

timmitus said:


> Isn't mj2 hybrid? How do they compare with the lsst tubes?


 

 Yeah, meant hybrid.


----------



## apollo11

I'm planning to buy the M2 because of the reviews and all of its characteristics for desktop use, however I am skeptical to go for it because "they" say its not mated for hd650, is this true? Because this is the only frequently headphones that i use and been pairing it with my mojo for portable use. And if i'm home I would hopefully would like it to be this kind of setup = mac-mojo-M2-senhd650!!!


----------



## apollo11

I hope this question were not repeated so many times here. Thanks...


----------



## reddog

claud w said:


> redog, how much SQ do you give up using MJ2 with Yaggy vs.the Rag?


I feel using a MJ2 and Yggdrasil, the sound quality is not as detailed and natural sounding, when compared to a Yggdrasil and a Ragnarock. The Yggdrasil and Ragnarock sounds so natural and revealing, that it is musically addicting. The Mjolnir 2 amp is a good amp, but its not as good as the mighty Ragnarock. The only amp that I have, that can beat the great sound of the Ragnarock, is my Liquid Glass.


----------



## DWbirdseye

apollo11 said:


> I'm planning to buy the M2 because of the reviews and all of its characteristics for desktop use, however I am skeptical to go for it because "they" say its not mated for hd650, is this true? Because this is the only frequently headphones that i use and been pairing it with my mojo for portable use. And if i'm home I would hopefully would like it to be this kind of setup = mac-mojo-M2-senhd650!!!


 
 I own the HD 650's and I'm not sure why some say the pairing between the two is not good. The MJ2 is a very versatile amp with solid state and tube capabilities. As you know the 650's offer a warm sound so you can complement that sound signature with tubes, or go with the lissts for a more neutral presentation. I would say the MJ2 is a fairly neutral amp, although some say it is a bit forward or maybe even a tad on the bright side. There are so many different variables involved such as quality of recordings, mastering, types of music, associated equipment, your own biases, etc..the MJ2 is an excellent amp. Good luck.


----------



## DWbirdseye

Le sacre du printemps 
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWotpIy0uTg


----------



## DWbirdseye

A question for tube rollers: what shortens the life of the tube more, turning the amp on and off 2-3 times a day, or leaving it on for 10 hours at a time, during which time I'm occasionally listening to music?


----------



## shultzee

dwbirdseye said:


> A question for tube rollers: what shortens the life of the tube more, turning the amp on and off 2-3 times a day, or leaving it on for 10 hours at a time, during which time I'm occasionally listening to music?


 

 I have had four different tube amps and never had a tube failure doing both of what you describe.   Knock on wood.


----------



## Byronb

dwbirdseye said:


> A question for tube rollers: what shortens the life of the tube more, turning the amp on and off 2-3 times a day, or leaving it on for 10 hours at a time, during which time I'm occasionally listening to music?


 
 Just from warm up times at what not, given those operating constraints I would just leave the amp on.


----------



## jp11801

dwbirdseye said:


> A question for tube rollers: what shortens the life of the tube more, turning the amp on and off 2-3 times a day, or leaving it on for 10 hours at a time, during which time I'm occasionally listening to music?


 
  
  
 A tube has a finite life span like many parts inside your amp. Let's say a tube has a rated lifespan of 10,000  hours (this would be a long life tube) if you left your amp for 10 hours a day you should get 1000 days of playing time. If however you listen when you wake up for an hour then go out for say 7 hours then listen for 2 hours I would turn the amp off for the 7 hour period, this would add significant years to your enjoyment of the tube. Often I find that 30 minutes is plenty for an amp to warm. 
  
 Yes turning an amp on and off can stress many parts of the amp, although it is designed to do this very function thousands of times, I'd opt for turning the amp off when you are going to not be listening to it for a longer period of time.


----------



## DWbirdseye

Thank you for all the responses.


----------



## odevans

Toxic cables' poison on order
LCD 2.2 on the desk
Gungnir nearly saved up for
Just ordered the Mjolnir 2! 

My wallet doesn't like you people, but my ears... 

Very very excited for it all to come together. Thank you to all who have posted their impressions and given advice on the forum.


----------



## DWbirdseye

odevans said:


> Toxic cables' poison on order
> LCD 2.2 on the desk
> Gungnir nearly saved up for
> Just ordered the Mjolnir 2!
> ...


----------



## shultzee

odevans said:


> Toxic cables' poison on order
> LCD 2.2 on the desk
> Gungnir nearly saved up for
> Just ordered the Mjolnir 2!
> ...


 

 Gungnir Multi Bit?
  
 The Gungnir MB / Mjolnir 2  is a amazing combo.


----------



## tjl5709

shultzee said:


> Gungnir Multi Bit?
> 
> The Gungnir MB / Mjolnir 2  is a amazing combo.


 
  
 Agreed!
  
 Had my combo for a week now. (moved from bifrost/lyr)
  
 Just wonderful. Can't stop listening to them.


----------



## odevans

shultzee said:


> Gungnir Multi Bit?
> 
> The Gungnir MB / Mjolnir 2  is a amazing combo.




That's exactly what I keep reading, which is why I'm getting the MB. I'd like to say that this dac/amp setup will be my 'end game', leaving my headphones as the only upgradable.


----------



## watchnerd

timmitus said:


> Isn't mj2 hybrid? How do they compare with the lsst tubes?


 
  
 I have the LISST "tubes" and vaccum tubes.  
  
 I don't mean to come across as flippant, but with LISST it sounds like I expect a solid state amp to sound (neutral).  
  
 With the tubes, it varies depending upon the tubes, although the MJ2 sound varies less with tube changes compared to 100% tube amps I own.


----------



## tonykaz

Dear Mr.Watchnerd,
  
 Hmm, you've decided on the MJ2.   Seems the top of the Schiit line, uses Balanced wiring with enough power to handle any headphone.  
  
 Are you stopping there or are you now venturing deeeeeeper into our little world?
  
 Those AK701s taper off in bass ( about 15db ) much like my vintage Sennheisers.  I fixed it with Equalization tricks I learned from my Audiologist and Floyd Toole ( Harmon ).
  
 You don't seem to reveal your DAC inclinations but I suspect you already know all about those.  If not, you could easily try an ODac ( under $200 ) which tests similar to a Benchmark DAC and is a well-regarded design or you might just get a Multibit from Schiit ( loved by headphone folks ).  
  
 I've discovered headphones to need only slight Amplification, the Asgard2 seems adequate ( to me, for now ). 
  
 You read like you've plenty of experience with tubes and perhaps not anxious to go deep into that little ( but exciting ) world.  
  
 You're there, you have a capable headphone system. 
  
 I admire your writings on all things Audio and the clarity you bring.  
  
 I'll be reading your posts later and hope you'll allow a few questions. 
  
 Nice reading you.
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## watchnerd

tonykaz said:


> Dear Mr.Watchnerd,
> 
> Hmm, you've decided on the MJ2.   Seems the top of the Schiit line, uses Balanced wiring with enough power to handle any headphone.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Right now I'm alternating between the HiFi Man 400i, the AKG701s, and AKG271s with the MJ2.  Not surprisingly, the orthodynamics benefit the most from the extra power of the MJ2.  With the AKGs, the tonality remains the same, although channel separation is vastly improved.
  
 As for DACs, I've been using both a Roland Super UA and a Universal Audio Apollo Twin Solo, swapping in or out depending upon what I'm working on (small venue field recordings with the Roland, everything else with the Apollo Twin).
  
 There is a very good chance that at some point in the future I'll move the MJ2 from the desktop to the living room and just use the Apollo Twin for everything in the studio, which will be fine as long as I stick to the AKGs for my mixing phones.  
  
 If I move the MJ2 to the living room, I'll use my mPRE for now. If Schiit comes out with a nice preamp next year (that is fully-balanced, dual mono, and has a remote) that might cause me to reconfigure everything and separate the DAC from the preamp.  
  
 I doubt I would pick the multibit version, though, for a few reasons.  One is that all my recording gear is SD/DS so introducing MB into the playback chain is another variable.  The second is that the difference in price could go towards yet another microphone....


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

croccap said:


> ive a/b'd the he-6 on the m2 and rag. m2 had no problem with he-6 on high gain, using balanced.  Dont think i was near the max volume, and i even preferred the m2 tube sound over the rag's solid state sound. as someone who does use speaker amps for my he-6, i still would recommend the m2.


 

 Re the HE-6: Is the sound of the Mjolnir 2 widely preferred over the Ragnarok, or are opinions more evenly split?


----------



## watchnerd

Gah....I just had to order one of those tube extractors.
  
 Can't get the Amperex Orange Globes out.
  
 Can any of you guys tube roll the MJ2 with just your bare fingers without socket extenders?


----------



## shultzee

watchnerd said:


> Gah....I just had to order one of those tube extractors.
> 
> Can't get the Amperex Orange Globes out.
> 
> Can any of you guys tube roll the MJ2 with just your bare fingers without socket extenders?


 

 Take a small pc. of cellophane or saran wrap and wrap around end of tube and it will grip the tube and your fingers.  Works great.


----------



## nbakid2000

To run a balanced source (mine would be LH Labs Geek Out V2 DAC), would I have to have dual 3 pin XLR connectors? So I'd have: Geek Out V2 > Balanced TRRS plug that expands into two 3 Pin XLR > Mjolnir 2.....is that correct?  Or am I wrong?


----------



## watchnerd

nbakid2000 said:


> To run a balanced source (mine would be LH Labs Geek Out V2 DAC), would I have to have dual 3 pin XLR connectors? So I'd have: Geek Out V2 > Balanced TRRS plug that expands into two 3 Pin XLR > Mjolnir 2.....is that correct?  Or am I wrong?


 
  
 Is the TRS-out on the Geek Out V2 actually a true balanced connection?
  
 But, yes, that's the cabling you'd need.


----------



## nbakid2000

watchnerd said:


> Is the TRS-out on the Geek Out V2 actually a true balanced connection?


 
  
 I honestly don't know. I wasn't aware there was a "real" or "fake" balanced connection possible. I'm using the balanced output with Sennheiser 600. There's a single balanced output that accepts TRRS plugs. The other output is Single Ended. What's the difference?


----------



## tonykaz

Tube Extractors,
  
 Rubberband. 
  
 Wrap tightly around the tube, you'll then have something to grip with your fingers.  Mafia Broccoli rubber bands might be best, the ones the Mob guys use as a Money Clip. 
  
 You can also drape a few sewing threads  ( 10 inches long ) between the pins before inserting those tubes, use the threads as a sling to remove the tubes, a wee bit of WD-40 on the pins will ease the removal and greatly improve the sound quality ( if you can find it in your sterile heart to believe in Audiophile Witchcraft, tsk,tsk ) 
  
 If I owned a MJ2 or any of those Schiit tubers I'd probably put the case on the Bridgeport and open those holes up ( "if" I intended to do some serious rolling and take-up with "that" crowd, I'm feeling my neurosis and psychosis melting away in my old age ).
  
 Well?, were those "special" tubes worth it? or is that why you were trying to get them the hell out of the circuit?  
  
 Audiophile fun awaits us.
  
 Tony in Michigan
  
 ps.  Silver Furnace tape also works, again the WD-40 comes to the rescue in removing the tape glue, leaving the tube nice and shinny ( which we all know improves sound quality ).


----------



## Astral Abyss

watchnerd said:


> Gah....I just had to order one of those tube extractors.
> 
> Can't get the Amperex Orange Globes out.
> 
> Can any of you guys tube roll the MJ2 with just your bare fingers without socket extenders?


 
  
 Rug Grippers.  If you're married, guaranteed your wife has some somewhere around the house.  Otherwise, it's available at pretty much any hardware store or Walmart.  Cut a small strip of it off (she won't notice) and you now have the perfect tube removal tool.


----------



## NinjaHamster

Rubber dishwashing gloves


----------



## tonykaz

Speaking of Tube Rolling and the MJ2,
  
 When are any of y'all gonna start exploring the Coke Bottle Triodes that the Garage1217 Ember Guys are loving?
  
 I presume the MJ2 has more than enough power supply.  
  
 or , do tube rollers naturally gravitate to Garage1217?
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## watchnerd

astral abyss said:


> Rug Grippers.  If you're married, guaranteed your wife has some somewhere around the house


 
  
 Sounds kinky...


----------



## watchnerd

tonykaz said:


> Speaking of Tube Rolling and the MJ2,
> 
> When are any of y'all gonna start exploring the Coke Bottle Triodes that the Garage1217 Ember Guys are loving?
> 
> ...


 
  
 The only coke bottle triodes I know of wouldn't fit in an MJ2.  
  
 Do you have a link?


----------



## watchnerd

tonykaz said:


> Well?, were those "special" tubes worth it? or is that why you were trying to get them the hell out of the circuit?


 
  
 They were okay.  Better than the 6BZ7.  But nothing too dramatic. I'm going to try some EH's and JJ's next.


----------



## tjl5709

watchnerd said:


> Gah....I just had to order one of those tube extractors.
> 
> Can't get the Amperex Orange Globes out.
> 
> Can any of you guys tube roll the MJ2 with just your bare fingers without socket extenders?


 

 After trying to dig tubes out of my Lyr when I first got it, I learned extenders were the only way to go, so the second thing I did after ordering the MJ2 was to get extenders.


----------



## watchnerd

tjl5709 said:


> After trying to dig tubes out of my Lyr when I first got it, I learned extenders were the only way to go, so the second thing I did after ordering the MJ2 was to get extenders.


 
  
 But aren't the good ones like $30?


----------



## tonykaz

Coke Bottle tubes or any of those triodes that the Garage1217 Ember tube rollers are exploring. 
  
 The adapters and their links are all on the Ember Site.  The guy named Howie13 in Scotland seems to be their spiritual leader. He's very active so he's accessible and a nicely fellow. 
  
 Another guy, a technical guy up in the Seattle Area is AtomicBob, dabbles in tube rolling but mostly in Amplifier research. You'll find him a kindred spirit as he's the research department for an Audio Industry group. He too seems accessible and seems to have a deep-pocket budget for owning stuff, he suggests using linear Power supplies with the Garage1217 Amps.  AtomicBob has a number of interesting Graphs of Headphone Amplifiers published here on Head-Fi.  He's a hell-of-a-resourse for us hobbyists, he also describes the Schiit Multibit DACs in technical terms ( he own's many desirable DACs ). You'll probably like him.
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## tonykaz

Good ones costing $30 ? , hmm, that's cheap for this hobby!  Still, they could be re-sold on ebay if it comes to that.
  
 Tony in Michigan
  
 ps.  Betcha the Roller folks have a couple hunrid dinero tied up in Adapters, all from China!


----------



## tjl5709

watchnerd said:


> But aren't the good ones like $30?


 

 I got a cheap set from fleabay (china). Not good.
  
 Went with the set from tube monger (or what ever he goes by) based on comments on headfi.
  
 They fit perfect and hold up well.


----------



## watchnerd

tonykaz said:


> Coke Bottle tubes or any of those triodes that the Garage1217 Ember tube rollers are exploring.
> 
> The adapters and their links are all on the Ember Site.  The guy named Howie13 in Scotland seems to be their spiritual leader. He's very active so he's accessible and a nicely fellow.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Are you referring to a tube like the 6J5G?
  

  
 As cool looking as it is, it's an octal, so won't fit into the MJ2 socket.
  
 That's without even getting into the electrical matters...


----------



## tonykaz

Yes, exactly like that tube.   The Garage1217 Ember guys found adapters for using these old tubes. 
  
 I think they are single triodes so they mount two of them on an adapter which plugs into a miniature 9 pin socket.  
  
 Verrrrry interesting stuff.  
  
 Tony in Michigan
  
 ps.  only 5 of the pins are wired: Plate, Cathode, Grid and two for the filament


----------



## watchnerd

tjl5709 said:


> I got a cheap set from fleabay (china). Not good.
> 
> Went with the set from tube monger (or what ever he goes by) based on comments on headfi.
> 
> They fit perfect and hold up well.


 
  
 The other problem I have is my cat.
  
 She likes to lie on top of the MJ2.
  
 Right now, the tubes poke out just enough that she can lay on top of them without damaging them.


----------



## Baldr

If you want tubes that you do not need a microscope to see, try 211 or 845.


----------



## tonykaz

845 ?
  
 10v heater 3.25 Amps, phew.   Can the MJ2 handle 4 triodes like this? Geez, that'd be 13 Amps of heater current 
  
 But it would be Retro, those things date back to the 1930s ( I think ) and they give off enough light for a Lighthouse Prizm arrangement. 
  
 Egads, plate modulation tubes for headphones.
  
 Sure would be a show stopper at the Headphone Meets. 
  
 By-the-way:
 Gram Nash got a free Chord at CES, Schiit needs Lady Gaga at your next event. 
 or don't you guys need to give stuff away (like the competition)?
  
 Tony in Frrrrrrrrrzing Michigan ,  look'n at Venice,Fla. properties


----------



## rb2013

tonykaz said:


> Tube Extractors,
> 
> Rubberband.
> 
> ...


 

 WD-40?  That stuff is made from fish oil - if your tube amp is smelling like a fish fry - might be why.  
  
 I would try a real contact enhancer made for audio - not garage doors.  DeoxiT GxMD gold.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/DeoxITGOLD-Liquid-Brush-Applicator-Conditioner/dp/B0015A7CYG/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1452534512&sr=8-5&keywords=deoxit+gold
  
 also available as part of the vacuum tube survival kit.
 http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-SKGXMDBULK-Deoxit-Vacuum-Survival/dp/B007K8M9JA/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1452534512&sr=8-9&keywords=deoxit+gold


----------



## rb2013

baldr said:


> If you want tubes that you do not need a microscope to see, try 211 or 845.


 

 Why not some KT-150's those will really get your MJ2 smokin'
  
 Then after the after your MJ2 has been burnt to a crisp it'll make great wall art with those 'big' tubes!


----------



## tonykaz

><)))'> 
  
 That WD-40 stuff works for all kinds of things but you are right about the proper stuff DeoxIT.  How many people have in on hand? but should?  ( Me, for instance ) 
  
 I sold scads of Cramolin when I was a Monster Cable Dealer, wish I still had some. 
  
 Still, getting out a stuck Tube in a MJ2 might benefit from a few drops of WD-40 allowed to drip down the side of the tube to loosen those pins a bit ( hopeful ). 
  
 If it smells fishy his cat might like it.
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## rb2013

tonykaz said:


> If it smells fishy his cat might like it.
> Tony in Michigan


 
 LOL!  Catnip tubes.  Sorry for the ribbing - and excuse my salty humor.  That WD-40 might do the trick - just a little.  I think it's flammable.  A pair of latex gloves once the tubes have cooled will usually give the fingertips a good grip. On the Lyr tube rolling thread there have been all kinds of methods; Latex gloves, Popsicle sticks, chop sticks, rubber tipped pliers, dental floss, sewing thread, socket savers (4 different kinds), etc...
  
 Socket savers are a blessing for Schiit tube rollers (I've rolled about hundred different tubes a few thousand times) - I'm on my third set.
  
 As far as using 845, 211, 300B, 6550, KT88, KT100, KT150, etc..tubes these are power tubes.  The MJ2 takes small voltage 6V signal tubes - apples and oranges.


----------



## shultzee

rb2013 said:


> baldr said:
> 
> 
> > If you want tubes that you do not need a microscope to see, try 211 or 845.
> ...


 
 LOL    you are a little salty tonight.


----------



## taxiq

jp11801 said:


> Can't stop this HUGE grin - Pat Metheny Bright Size Life is just stunning through the Yggy-MJ 2 and my Genelec 8050 powered speakers. I've heard a lot of great sound having gone to RMAF 3 times, 2 Stereophile shows and VSAC and this is some of the best sound I've had.
> 
> The biggest trait is just the utter realism the tone, dynamics and detail all work together to have the speakers melt away.


 
 Got it.  The yggy and genelec's are amazing, albeit mine are the 8030's with good sub (ML 3 driver).
  
 bon appetit


----------



## tonykaz

Mr.rb2013,
  
 I just starting absorbing your extensive work on 6922 Sonic attributes, an impressive project that provokes a good bit of soul searching ( at least on my part ).
  
 Over these last couple of months ( after Atomicbob discovered the Garage1217 Sunrise and shared it with our little world here on Head-Fi ) I started a study of this Tube rolling concept and hobby. 
  
 The Ember expedition group are now sailing thru Single Triode waters ( have you noticed any of their writings & photo's?), fascinating stuff.  
  
 Still (I ponder) why bother?  Isn't the Solid State stuff superb enough?  My Asgard 2 is every bit as musical as my glorious Electrocompaniet Ampliwires ( which I've felt is the most musical of any electronic gear I represented or got my hands on ).  With the possible exception being Art Ferris's Modulous 2B preamp and Conrad-Johnson's MV-45a ( I represented all three Company's Product Lines for my Midwest Market Area, in the mid 1980s ).
  
 However, early last year, I came to realize that I have (or had) an un-corrected hearing problem.  My Audiologists helped me solve my little inhibitors which returned my iMac,DAC,Asgard2, Sehhheiser HD580s to sonic glory, perhaps even beyond my previous glory to the "outstanding" range of pleasantness.  I closed out 2015 as a complete success (musically), I returned to collecting the World's great music with near reckless abandon.
  
 But, I have the Audiophile's curse of always craving better.  Tyll's Big Sound 2015 was an Eye-opener for me, Bob Katz's writings (from the Recording Industry's perspective) shined a focused light on Music Reproduction  techniques.  Now Mr.Watchnerd contributes ( using his unique ability to describe the Audio Gear performance of all things in the recording and reproduction chains) .
  
 I'm at the point where I feel that I can have my system's sound quality playing to "my" preferences ( after a bit of DIY work) or I can simply buy a pleasant solution in the form of a Chord device, a Schiit system ( which I own now ), a nice Cavalli like many tout ( providing I'm happy waiting for the next offering ) or even an affordable JDS Labs little system or just rely on an Astel & Kern player.  Geez, I've got multiple choices, don't I?  
  
 [size=x-small]I'm wondering if I can continue on, in Audiophile Nirvana, until I happen to come [/size]across[size=x-small] you and your Lyr with it's super tubes?  Will I (right then and there) begin a committed search for the equal to your gear, no longer able to "tolerate" what I own?, you write such wonderfully seductive things about those German tubes.[/size]
  
 Your writing is enticing.
  
 Tony in Michigan
  
 ps.  that picture of thousands of dollars worth of tubes seems like a $100 each kinda thing, is that the price range we're discussing?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Just ordered my Mjolnir 2! Waiting to see whether I prefer LISST or tubes...inclined to think it'll be tubes.


----------



## DWbirdseye

Russian not German.


----------



## watchnerd

tonykaz said:


> Still (I ponder) why bother?  Isn't the Solid State stuff superb enough?


 
  
 One thing I love about the MJ2, and the clever LISSTs, is that it lets me have it both ways.
  
 I never use tubes when mixing something.  There are already enough variables to worry about without introducing euphonics into the chain.
  
 I do use tubes for pleasure listening if they were part of the original instrument chain or recording chain.
  
 Examples: any modern electric guitarist/bass player who is using a guitar/bass amp with tubes, or any recording made prior to the ubiquity of solid state in the recording chain.
  
 For other modern recordings, I use the LISST.
  
 I leave my MJ2 running 24x7 to keep things nice and toasty.
  
 So for modern electronic music and dubstep, I stick the LISST in the freezer to make sure they take as long as possible to enter class A.  Once they're warmed up, session is over. (JK)


----------



## tonykaz

Mr.DWbirdseye,
  
 Right you are.   Ebay has many, +/- $20 ea. , not all that pricy considering.  
  
 That is if we are talking about the 6N23P ! , mostly from Ukraine with $11 Shipping. 
  
 Hmm
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## watchnerd

Damn, the MJ2 is so nice with the JBL LSR305s...
  
 I really love my Dynaudio BM5 monitors with the MJ2, but the LSR305s are just sooooooooo good for the money and the MJ2 drives them so well....
  
 If you have an MJ2, just get some...they're only about $250/pair...fully powered, balanced in.


----------



## tonykaz

There's a lot of "Bang" for he Buck in headphone gear.
  
 The range of Active Monitors has me scratching my head on how the Pricy Guys manage to sell $100,000 Loudspeakers to folks with a fresh Bonus Check ( and I was in that business ) seems like a con-job going on.  
  
 A big Genelec 8050s + three Sub-woofers is cheap by comparison ( and your decorator can hide em ). 
  
 Seems Consumer Audio smells kinda   ><)))'>   when prices hit $20,000 and up.
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## jp11801

sorry for the OT - the Genelec monitors and many well regarded pro monitors are great values compared to the "audiophile" counterparts. My 8050 monitors I think were $4.4k list and I paid $2k for a seriously cosmetically challenged pair. Nothing in my past came close to that sound for the dollar. My old wave 300b set may have been better in some ways but not in others at 20% of the list price compared to the Genelecs. Monitors aren't for everyone but if you can make them work for your listening area they are really good. My caveat is the entry level Guitar Center stuff can be seriously challenged but if you look GearSlutz forum most guys there can steer you right. 
  
 A good friend of mine has a really nice pair of ATCs that are part of their home line - expensive but stunning sound. I am looking at stepping up to the Barefoot 27 monitors in the next year or two once work settles down. 
  
 Got my 75 Reflekor SWSG tubes in and so far I'm not sure if I am hearing a huge difference with the 74s but I need to do a comparison over the weekend


----------



## shultzee

jp11801 said:


> sorry for the OT - the Genelec monitors and many well regarded pro monitors are great values compared to the "audiophile" counterparts. My 8050 monitors I think were $4.4k list and I paid $2k for a seriously cosmetically challenged pair. Nothing in my past came close to that sound for the dollar. My old wave 300b set may have been better in some ways but not in others at 20% of the list price compared to the Genelecs. Monitors aren't for everyone but if you can make them work for your listening area they are really good. My caveat is the entry level Guitar Center stuff can be seriously challenged but if you look GearSlutz forum most guys there can steer you right.
> 
> A good friend of mine has a really nice pair of ATCs that are part of their home line - expensive but stunning sound. I am looking at stepping up to the Barefoot 27 monitors in the next year or two once work settles down.
> 
> Got my 75 Reflekor SWSG tubes in and so far I'm not sure if I am hearing a huge difference with the 74s but I need to do a comparison over the weekend


 

 I didn't think there was a huge difference between the 74's and 75's but I definitely found the 75's better.


----------



## rb2013

shultzee said:


> LOL    you are a little salty tonight.


 





  


tonykaz said:


> Mr.rb2013,
> 
> I just starting absorbing your extensive work on 6922 Sonic attributes, an impressive project that provokes a good bit of soul searching ( at least on my part ).
> 
> ...


 

 Tony - thanks for the kind words.  I've been on this Audio Vision Quest for three decades.  And it's never been more fun.  For me tube hybrids are the way to go - MOSFET class A solid state outputs and small signal tube pre-amp - the best of both worlds.  I have had both all solid state and all tube set-ups  - but they both came up lacking.
  
 Before the Lyr I had a fully tricked out Woo WA-6SE fully tube rolled.  Beautifully musical - but a bit laid back.  The Lyr on the other hand was vivacious and raucous - but tamed with the best 6922's to add smoothness and musicality.  Tremendous fun and excitement.
  
 The MJ2 is even better.  I don't yet own one only for the fact I'm at a HP crossroad.  Sold my beloved HD800 and now deciding on whether to go to an all Stax set-up (SR-9) or to a new pair or HD800S's.  I'm leaning very much to the MJ2/HD800S combo (hoping a friend will take the plunge first so I can give a listen).
  
 For me the best Russian tubes (I call my 'Holy Grails' or HG's) where the magical ingredient.  They make such a difference - a big win for the MJ2 Lyr2 type designs.  Schiit decided to build a true DC heated tube pre-amp - not a tube buffered/opamp design.  So that makes the Schiit gear especially sensitive to tube changes.
  
 Should be a fun year!


----------



## rb2013

I'll just post this here as warning (post on my 6922 Tube Review thread):
  


> Originally Posted by *rb2013*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## DWbirdseye

watchnerd said:


> So for modern electronic music and dubstep, I stick the LISST in the freezer to make sure they take as long as possible to enter class A.  Once they're warmed up, session is over. (JK)




What do you mean by this and how does pro tools figure into the final product and how it sounds?


----------



## watchnerd

dwbirdseye said:


> What do you mean by this and how does pro tools figure into the final product and how it sounds?


 
  
 That last one was a joke. JK = just kidding.
  
 When you say 'pro tools' do you mean Pro Tools the DAW software?


----------



## odevans

My MJ2 has arrived  sadly, I have to work away tonight, though I've left it on to let the burn-in begin.

Just like to say that my experience with Electromod (UK buyers) was great: Good seller contact and tracked next day delivery


----------



## DWbirdseye

watchnerd said:


> That last one was a joke. JK = just kidding.
> 
> When you say 'pro tools' do you mean Pro Tools the DAW software?


 
 It was a rhetorical question.... When I first started recording we had to splice tape.


----------



## tonykaz

Trust
  
 Mr.rb2013, I did further reading to discover the experiences you had.   
  
I'll be happy buying from one of the "recommended" vendors, they are always worthwhile.  
  
I have no problem paying the going rate for quality, 
  
I've learned that "paying" for low Quality nearly always results in the more expensive route.    
  
Tony in Michigan


----------



## rb2013

tonykaz said:


> Trust
> 
> Mr.rb2013, I did further reading to discover the experiences you had.
> 
> ...


 

 You got that right.   Just wish one of the reputable tube dealer would stock these amazing Russian Reflektor 6n23p with the single wire getter posts.  Somebody like Brent Jesse or Tubeworld.  I have bought from them for years and always a happy customer.


----------



## tonykaz

Mr.rb2013,
  
 Pursuing Greatness in Music Reproduction
  
 Decades ago, setting up our (my) Audio Salon (Esoteric Audio) I brought in every Manufacturer's Electronic Offerings.  Finally settling on Elecrocompainet as the Finest of the Finest.  They never disappointed me.  I felt it was a beautiful "Wire with thunderous Gain"  
  
 It took a good while longer to discover the real "Magic" ingredient : Koetsu Phono Cartridges! 
  
 But, all that work and dedication and expense meant little without the Vinyl.  I ended up in agreement with HP of the "The Absolute Sound" ( whom I was in leagues with ) that the great vinyl made the entire system and all that hard work worthwhile!  HP pretty much settled on the Mercury Living Presence recordings as the entire basis of all his writing and reporting.   Those Mercury's are available today, on CD, for the entire set, about $100 US +/-.  I imaging Harry would be delighted (he took credit for their Audiophile discovery). 
  
 After all those decades I find myself building another wonderful music system, for me!   
  
 Almost by chance alone, our Tyll recommended  Schiit & Sennheiser . That was 2011 at RMAF, phew, seems like 10 years ago.  From that point on I've been on a binge of collecting music, any music, ranging from way back to Art Tatum re-issues to new releases, I've been to meets, I've impulse purchased reviewed gear, I've been reading peoples experiences and writing the odd note here and there on Head-Fi.  What, 5 Years now, still Schiit & Sennheiser!.  I have explored "improvements" that didn't pan out.  I owe Tyll for his wisdom and his willingness to share it.  God bless em! 
  
 As 2014 begins, I contracted a mild case of Audiophile Nervosa about DACs, I nearly purchased a $10,000 R2R, held off as nagging doubts settled over me. I reasoned that DACs might very well be the provider of a "Koetsu-like" Front-End that worked such wonderful Charms in my Vinyl gear.  The impending release of the Yggy DAC froze me, I finally got access to Jude's Yggy at the Ann Arbor headphone meet to be completely "un-impressed", a powerful blow to my reasonings & logic!  I was so emotionally shaken that I had the University of Michigan's Medical group evaluate my Ears and hearing capabilities.  Phew, another surprise, my own lovely ears were something needing attention in the form of skilled adjustments.  I adjusted and returned to an entirely new and fresh performing Schiit & Sennheiser.  Phew again, should've done this medical thing long ago and stayed up with it, it changes everything in a very good and satisfying way!  
  
 Now, today, pleasantly reading along on Head-Fi, I discover you Tube Roller folks, reporting and journalizing about the "Great Adventure" you are on, going places to discover treasures : Tube Treasures.  Hmm. 
  
 to be continued...
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## DWbirdseye

Thanks for sharing Tony. If you don't mind me asking, what was wrong with your ears and what was the fix. Wax build up is a common problem especially with those that use iems. - Late 60's impulse label with Yusef Lateef is not too shabby either.


----------



## joeexp

How is this connected to the Schiit Mjolnir 2? Or have I missed something ...


----------



## tonykaz

Mr.DWbirdseye and Mr.joeexp,
  
 I am getting to these things and some of the relevant intricacies.
  
 My Bernie Sanders support group just went active, in a big way.  
  
 I'll be piecing this Audio story together as time and travel allow.
  
 Some good News! (I think)  :  Schiit is growing !, which means we Audiophiles found a winning company.  Well, good news for us, maybe not Good News for the struggling outfits trying to support the floundering Distributer/Dealer Model ( how long will it be before we discover Audio Research stuff at Best Buy?) 
  
 Busses are leaving, gotta go.
  
 Tony from Michigan


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Does the HD800 seem to prefer MJ2 with tubes or LISST? What about the HD600?


----------



## DWbirdseye

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Does the HD800 seem to prefer MJ2 with tubes or LISST? What about the HD600?


 
 They like both, it just depends on your sonic preference. You can shape the sound with various tubes, or go for neutral with the lissts.


----------



## watchnerd

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Does the HD800 seem to prefer MJ2 with tubes or LISST? What about the HD600?


 
  
 I don't think headphones have preferences.  They're not sentient.


----------



## DWbirdseye




----------



## Uchiya

Anyone here connect external subs to the preouts on the amp?  I have a pair of subs I'd like to connect simultaneously while playing my he6 to reinforce some chest thumping while watching movies.


----------



## watchnerd

uchiya said:


> Anyone here connect external subs to the preouts on the amp?  I have a pair of subs I'd like to connect simultaneously while playing my he6 to reinforce some chest thumping while watching movies.


 
  
 Yeah, JBL LSR310S via XLR.
  
 But I've never done what you're proposing (i.e. sub on, headphones on, monitors off).


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Anyone else receive an M2 where Schiit forgot to include the tubes/lisst?


----------



## Alphaman0606

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Anyone else receive an M2 where Schiit forgot to include the tubes/lisst?


 
 Guess you weren't able to play it at all?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

They're fedexing the lisst and tubes and should be here later this week, but I admit it was disappointing.


----------



## odevans

bosiemoncrieff said:


> They're fedexing the lisst and tubes and should be here later this week, but I admit it was disappointing.


 
 Wait, are you meant to get both tubes and LISST? I was under the impression that it was one or the other, meaning you'd have to buy the other separately? Either that, or I've been short changed.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

You can get one or the other or both. LISST is more expensive.


----------



## odevans

bosiemoncrieff said:


> You can get one or the other or both. LISST is more expensive.


 
 I didn't purchase mine directly from Schiit, so I wouldn't have seen that. Thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## m0nster

bosiemoncrieff said:


> They're fedexing the lisst and tubes and should be here later this week, but I admit it was disappointing.




Of course it was, you were expecting great sound and got nothing at first. I am sure people at Schiit understand your disappointment. But in the end they are human too, one tends to forget since they make this cool innovative new stuff 

I wish you loads of fun with your new Mjolnir! You'll be flying away with music soon


----------



## DWbirdseye

m0nster said:


> I wish you loads of fun with your new Mjolnir! You'll be flying away with music soon




Yes you will!!!!!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Do the k812s play more nicely with the Mjolnir 2 than the HE-6s (or HE-500s/560s)?


----------



## reddog

I hooked up my MJ2 ( with NOS Telefunken E88CC Platinum tubes) to my Yggdrasil , to drive my ETHER, and it sounds so good. The Mjolnir 2's 8 Watts of power really makes the ETHER sound marvelous. From Zappa to Zepplin to Mozart, I was quite happy. The Mjolnir 2 might not have the magic of the Liquid Glass, or the lush transparent resolve of the Liquid Crimson, it still kicks ass. With the right tubes, bass on the Mjolnir 2 is great, it has good, deep impact, that keeps my bass monkey happy. The mids are smooth, with just a touch of grit, but still natural sounding. The highs are very nice sounding. My ears detected no annoying sybilance, that can fatigue me so much. The Mjolnir 2 is a great amp, especially f o r the money, it can hold its own against other amps.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Finally got the tubes/lisst. MJ2 with LISST is interesting, but even the stock tubes just blew me away. Coming from Vali, the difference is staggering. Unless I venture into electrostatics, this might be all the amp I need.
  
 I'm listening to piano on MJ2 with my HD800s and my urge to get a new phone dedicated to piano has waned a bit. Still way too early to tell, but although it's perhaps not as focused a soundstage I would like for chamber music, it's much more compelling than Vali.


----------



## jp11801

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Finally got the tubes/lisst. MJ2 with LISST is interesting, but even the stock tubes just blew me away. Coming from Vali, the difference is staggering. Unless I venture into electrostatics, this might be all the amp I need.
> 
> I'm listening to piano on MJ2 with my HD800s and my urge to get a new phone dedicated to piano has waned a bit. Still way too early to tell, but although it's perhaps not as focused a soundstage I would like for chamber music, it's much more compelling than Vali.


 
  
  
 Try Orange Globes or the 74/75 Reflektor tubes for a very nice experience! I really need to do more tube rolling and note each change but after trying a few I've got the 75 Reflektor SWSG in there without an urge to try something else.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

What happens with one tube and one LISST?


----------



## MisterMoJo

bosiemoncrieff said:


> What happens with one tube and one LISST?


 
  
  
 BOOM!!


----------



## Shini44

hey guys anyone tryed "6922 Siemens Halske gray shield NOS 1965"  how does it sound? i assume Airy, yet neutral mids? or? 
  
http://tubeworldexpress.com/products/copy-of-best-6922-pair-1-6922-siemens-halske-gray-shield-nos-1965-a0-series-rebranded-rca-1-matched
  
 was thinking about this one and Phlips pair for liquid mids + good bass and 3D where the "Siemens Halske " is for an airy fun dynamic sound (in case thats how does it sound)
  
http://tubeworldexpress.com/products/copy-of-e88cc-6922-philips-sq-holland-1971-best-pair-1


----------



## zive

The world would reverse its orbit, and your amplifier would explode.
  
 ...But in all seriousness I think there are two possible outcomes from trying this (if you haven't already):
  
 1. Everything operates normally with one channel assuming a solid state sound and the other a tube sound. In theory this would be pretty handy for doing an "instantaneous A/B", yet in practice I could see this causing some pretty serious headaches after extended listening.
  
 2. As stated above you could have two channels with different sound signatures reflecting their upstream components but... the difference in voltage output from the two components may cause some damage to your amplifier, or more likely either the LISST or tubes could be damaged in the long run. I'm really only speculating here and I think option 1 is the more likely outcome but Jason would be able to tell you more definitively than I can.
  
 If you end up trying it please post impressions.
  
 Cheers


----------



## rmoody

I've listened to my buddy  bigro's Vali, Valhalla and Vali 2 and a few different tube sets and I've always just been wowed with the sound.
  
 While admiring the Mjolnir 2 tonight I seemed to have blacked out and the next thing I knew, I had an order number. I honestly have no idea what or how it happened!
  
 One step closer to my end game setup. Now to save for gumby.
  
 2-3 weeks backordered, which works in my favor really.
  
 Mule 2 will be feed by bimby for now. I'm just excited to have my first tube amp.


----------



## DWbirdseye

rmoody said:


> I've listened to my buddy  bigro's Vali, Valhalla and Vali 2 and a few different tube sets and I've always just been wowed with the sound.
> 
> While admiring the Mjolnir 2 tonight I seemed to have blacked out and the next thing I knew, I had an order number. I honestly have no idea what or how it happened!
> 
> ...


 
 I feel for you lol!! In November I ordered the MJ 2 with lissts and tubes, in January I ordered the Gumby MB. Although it's painful to have to go through the burn-in period twice, it does allow you to appreciate what each piece has to offer individually and together as a whole. The sound quality produced from these 2 pieces of Schiit  is astonishing. This is a very seductive combination and very addictive. Have fun!!!!


----------



## EinZweiDrei

How does this amp compare to wa6se?
Im thinking about getting this amp or the wa6se for my endgame setup in the future.


----------



## shultzee

einzweidrei said:


> How does this amp compare to wa6se?
> Im thinking about getting this amp or the wa6se for my endgame setup in the future.


 

 I had both.  I personally liked the MJ2 better.   All the detail was there with a little lushness of the tubes and loads of power.   Have a yggy coming and then I will own another mj2.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

$150 more, and you get balanced/single ended, tube/SS versatility? Best $150 you will ever spend. Even stock tube sound is stunning!


----------



## EinZweiDrei

bosiemoncrieff said:


> $150 more, and you get balanced/single ended, tube/SS versatility? Best $150 you will ever spend. Even stock tube sound is stunning!



Im talking about wa6-se not the regular wa6.


----------



## jjacq

I have the Mjolnir 2 right now for the HD800 and I have recently try the 74 reflektors but it was a bit veiled. I was wondering if anyone has other suggestions when it comes to tubes for the HD800, my HD800 is Anax modded as well. The Orange Globes are a bit treble forward too.


----------



## tjl5709

jjacq said:


> I have the Mjolnir 2 right now for the HD800 and I have recently try the 74 reflektors but it was a bit veiled. I was wondering if anyone has other suggestions when it comes to tubes for the HD800, my HD800 is Anax modded as well. The Orange Globes are a bit treble forward too.


 

 I am currently running some amperex 7308's with my HD650's. They are cleaner sounding, more bottom end, and wider sound stage than the orange globes. I also have some telefunken e88cc's that I really like as well. Both are a cut above the OG's.


----------



## shultzee

jjacq said:


> I have the Mjolnir 2 right now for the HD800 and I have recently try the 74 reflektors but it was a bit veiled. I was wondering if anyone has other suggestions when it comes to tubes for the HD800, my HD800 is Anax modded as well. The Orange Globes are a bit treble forward too.


 

 I found 74 reflectors to be really good.  But they need some good burn in time.   Make sure you get some hours on them till you really judge them.


----------



## watchnerd

shultzee said:


> I found 74 reflectors to be really good.  But they need some good burn in time.   Make sure you get some hours on them till you really judge them.


 
  
 Perfect example of the use case for a tube warmer!


----------



## DWbirdseye

shultzee said:


> I found 74 reflectors to be really good.  But they need some good burn in time.   Make sure you get some hours on them till you really judge them.


 
 No doubt the tubes at 25 hours of use sound very much different than the same pair with 150 + hours.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

einzweidrei said:


> Im talking about wa6-se not the regular wa6.


 

 I beg your pardon. I should say: $341 less and you get balanced/single ended, tube/SS versatility? Best $341 you will ever save. Even stock tube sound is stunning!
  
 EDIT: Plus tax.


----------



## Groundzero

einzweidrei said:


> How does this amp compare to wa6se?
> Im thinking about getting this amp or the wa6se for my endgame setup in the future.


 
 Having owned a WA 6 SE for a couple years and having sold it, I can say with Woo amps you're definitely paying quite a lot for the machined aluminum chassis and less for what's inside. For full disclosure, I've never owned or heard a Mjolnir.


----------



## Hifi59

shultzee said:


> I found 74 reflectors to be really good.  But they need some good burn in time.   Make sure you get some hours on them till you really judge them.




Hi Schutzee

She was actually listening to your 74 reflectors that I got with your mj2. We were at a S.Florida meet on Saturday. I also just scored some legit 75's with only 50 hours on them. Coming this week.


----------



## Hifi59

..


----------



## jjacq

hifi59 said:


> Hi Schutzee
> 
> She was actually listening to your 74 reflectors that I got with your mj2. We were at a S.Florida meet on Saturday. I also just scored some legit 75's with only 50 hours on them. Coming this week.


 
 Oh man so lucky, where do you find these reflektors lol.


----------



## Hifi59

jjacq said:


> Oh man so lucky, where do you find these reflektors lol.




Found them here on head-fi for 150. I let you know how they sound after a few days of listening.


----------



## shultzee

hifi59 said:


> shultzee said:
> 
> 
> > I found 74 reflectors to be really good.  But they need some good burn in time.   Make sure you get some hours on them till you really judge them.
> ...


 

 Awesome on the 75's   . They are some sweet tubes.


----------



## rmoody

Question, could someone explain to a relative neophyte to tubes what exactly is a 74 reflektor (or is it reflector)? Obviously that's a tube, but are we referring to a particular brand and model?
  
 Very curious as my Mule 2 should arrive Friday (so glad I work from home on Fridays!).


----------



## shultzee

rmoody said:


> Question, could someone explain to a relative neophyte to tubes what exactly is a 74 reflektor (or is it reflector)? Obviously that's a tube, but are we referring to a particular brand and model?
> 
> Very curious as my Mule 2 should arrive Friday (so glad I work from home on Fridays!).


 

 Check  out this thread on 6922 type tubes.   http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes         
 These are the type used by the lyr and mj2.
 Another good resource to read about some of the different 6922 types is  here.    http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6922/


----------



## zive

rmoody said:


> Question, could someone explain to a relative neophyte to tubes what exactly is a 74 reflektor (or is it reflector)? Obviously that's a tube, but are we referring to a particular brand and model?
> 
> Very curious as my Mule 2 should arrive Friday (so glad I work from home on Fridays!).


 
 Others who own them can chime in, but in the context of this thread Reflektor will refer to a tube factory in Saratov City, Russia which, although opened for the purpose of meeting military/industrial tube needs, has more recently gained notoriety for the application of its tubes in guitars, recording equipment, and other audio applications. Some reviewers such as rb2013 have heralded the use of Reflektor's 6n23p tubes in Schiit Lyr2/MJ2's as the cream of the crop. The '74 or '75 that you've been reading about refer to the year of manufacture (either 1974 or 1975), with slight sonic differences between the tubes produced in those years. The "HG" denotation seen with these tubes refers to their status as "holy grail" tubes because their reputation has driven up demand for these rare tubes far beyond their supply.
  
 If you're just getting you MJ2 I wouldn't worry about these tubes for a while. Their rarity makes finding a matched pair in NOS condition exceedingly difficult. Unless you're made of money and the opportunity to pick up a pair presents itself in your near future, I would put them out of mind for now and enjoy the MJ2 with the many other tubes which pair well with Mjolnir 2. 
  
 Hope that clears things up and cheers to many hours of enjoyment with your new purchase.


----------



## rmoody

zive said:


> Others who own them can chime in, but in the context of this thread Reflektor will refer to a tube factory in Saratov City, Russia which, although opened for the purpose of meeting military/industrial tube needs, has more recently gained notoriety for the application of its tubes in guitars, recording equipment, and other audio applications. Some reviewers such as rb2013 have heralded the use of Reflektor's 6n23p tubes in Schiit Lyr2/MJ2's as the cream of the crop. The '74 or '75 that you've been reading about refer to the year of manufacture (either 1974 or 1975), with slight sonic differences between the tubes produced in those years. The "HG" denotation seen with these tubes refers to their status as "holy grail" tubes because their reputation has driven up demand for these rare tubes far beyond their supply.
> 
> If you're just getting you MJ2 I wouldn't worry about these tubes for a while. Their rarity makes finding a matched pair in NOS condition exceedingly difficult. Unless you're made of money and the opportunity to pick up a pair presents itself in your near future, I would put them out of mind for now and enjoy the MJ2 with the many other tubes which pair well with Mjolnir 2.
> 
> Hope that clears things up and cheers to many hours of enjoyment with your new purchase.


 
  
 Awesome, thank you. My goal is to enjoy the MJ2 stock until finances recover. My friend bigro has a Valhalla 2 and Vali 2 and some tubes to share with me, that should keep me plenty busy. Hurry up Friday!


----------



## tjl5709

rmoody said:


> Question, could someone explain to a relative neophyte to tubes what exactly is a 74 reflektor (or is it reflector)? Obviously that's a tube, but are we referring to a particular brand and model?
> 
> Very curious as my Mule 2 should arrive Friday (so glad I work from home on Fridays!).


 

 I don't know what your budget is, but you can far exceed what you put out for the mj2 in various tubes. Having come over from a lyr2, I already had a rather expensive inventory of tubes for it, so moving up to a balance amp that used the same tubes was a no brainer for me.
  
 Not sure about your cans, but with my HD650's, I have accumulated some 74 reflektors which sound very good. I also enjoy amperex orange globes & bugel boys. I'm partial to everyday listening with some amperex 7308's and some Telefunken E88CC's. Smooth, well balanced, with good detail.
  
 Go to the Lyr tube rollers thread if your wallet can stand it.


----------



## ThrillerUSA

Regarding M2 or Lry 2 tubes, for my two cents which comes far from a tube-a-phile I bought a Lyr 2 a year ago, did a bunch of research to get a collective 'can't go wrong with these tubes' and settled with buying a pair of TELEFUNKEN E88CC / 6922 from UpscaleAudio.com.
  
 The man who owns the joint claimed to have found some in excellent shape and I believed him so nearly USD400 later with shipping and cryo nonsense I've never looked back.
  
 Now looks like I might pull the trigger on a M2 to go balanced and I'm committing myself to a second pair of Telefunken's by the same gentleman at UpscaleAudio. Wanna play Lry 2 and M2 same time with me lady using near identical setups but two separate volume controls. Source is simply Oppo BDP-105D with SE and Balanced outs on separate DACs. SACDs, USB, all of it.
  
 I got addicted to tube rolling once on an EL34/12A little 50w home amp and ended up losing about a year of evenings and income only to end up with one solid setup which included PSVanes upfront and Winged = C's = from some special factory in the back and that was me done forever. Never going back. Heh heh.
  
 Point of ramble being, if you can afford the Telefunken or Reflextors HG's or Orange Chocolates or whatever for the latest balanced effort by Schiit I don't think there's much shame in picking something said to be darn good by most and enjoy your music.
  
 My tummy has butterflies now just thinking back to all the hours of A/B/C/D/A/C/A/B/A/C/C/D comparing. Ugh, I love this hobby. Fine line between love and hate.


----------



## watchnerd

thrillerusa said:


> My tummy has butterflies now just thinking back to all the hours of A/B/C/D/A/C/A/B/A/C/C/D comparing.


 
  
 Sometimes it's best to just pick one that's 'good enough' and get on with listening to music...


----------



## tjl5709

thrillerusa said:


> Regarding M2 or Lry 2 tubes, for my two cents which comes far from a tube-a-phile I bought a Lyr 2 a year ago, did a bunch of research to get a collective 'can't go wrong with these tubes' and settled with buying a pair of TELEFUNKEN E88CC / 6922 from UpscaleAudio.com.
> 
> The man who owns the joint claimed to have found some in excellent shape and I believed him so nearly USD400 later with shipping and cryo nonsense I've never looked back.
> 
> ...


 

 I have the same telefunkens. They are wonderful. Really don't need anything else.


----------



## ThrillerUSA

Question, please?
  
 The only other headphone amp I am considering today other than the MJOLNIR 2 is an Oppo HA-1.
  
 Any possible chance someone here has experience with both?
  
 My current cans are Sennheiser HD700s current amp a Lyr 2 (which I luv) and most enjoy acoustic music like Bosa Nova, Bill Evans piano jazz, Pee Wee Russell trumpet jazz, Ottmar Leibert acoustic guitar, Nora Jones sultry female vocals.
  
 The volume control via remote control is just so attractive from the bed or couch plus have had very good luck with Oppo in the past including a recent HA-2 mobile DAC purchase.
  
 I want to enjoy some balanced output next.
  
 Many thanks in advance.


----------



## shultzee

thrillerusa said:


> Question, please?
> 
> The only other headphone amp I am considering today other than the MJOLNIR 2 is an Oppo HA-1.
> 
> ...


 

 I had them both.  The ha-1 is a nice all rounder.  Did a lot of things well. But when it comes down to the Mj2 amp vs. Ha-1 ss amp I would choose the mj2 with good tubes everyday.   Of course that is IMHO.


----------



## jp11801

thrillerusa said:


> Question, please?
> 
> The only other headphone amp I am considering today other than the MJOLNIR 2 is an Oppo HA-1.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I had the Oppo and returned it within the trial period, thought it was too hot and thin up top. The MJ2 is just fantastic particularly with the Yggy.


----------



## murphythecat

watchnerd said:


> Right now I'm alternating between the HiFi Man 400i, the AKG701s, and AKG271s with the MJ2.  Not surprisingly, the orthodynamics benefit the most from the extra power of the MJ2.  With the AKGs, the tonality remains the same, although channel separation is vastly improved.
> 
> As for DACs, I've been using both a Roland Super UA and a Universal Audio Apollo Twin Solo, swapping in or out depending upon what I'm working on (small venue field recordings with the Roland, everything else with the Apollo Twin).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Also, anyone compared the MJ2 to the Taurus mk2?


----------



## zive

Quote:


hardwired said:


> The advice I took to heart was when someone said "You can start with cheap tubes and work your way up, or you can start at the top where you'll probably end up anyway and save all that money you would have spent on the cheap tubes".
> 
> I got the Telefunken platinum grade from Upscale Audio. Love them.
> 
> Since then I've acquired Philips Miniwatt SQ, '75 Reflektor, and some Amperex white label, and all of them sound great with small differences between them. The Telefunkens are still my favorite (sorry Bob!) but now I'm worried I won't be able to find any more when mine wear out in 10 years.



 Indeed, I have to agree with this post from much earlier in the thread.
  
 Save your money, save your time, do thorough research up-front and save to buy the best pair of tubes you can afford once rather than rolling through ten of sets of mediocre tubes.
  
 They don't have to be HG Reflektors but buying a single set of Gold Lions, Orange Globes, Bugle Boys, etc., will save you a lot of time and free up funds to spend on other components. 
  
 A lesson I learned from wiser head-fier's than myself.


----------



## watchnerd

Man I would love it if Schiit would add some cool analog VU meters (real ones, not video games) to their top end stuff.


----------



## frankraindog

murphythecat said:


> Also, anyone compared the MJ2 to the Taurus mk2?




+1 on this


----------



## tonykaz

Mr. watchnerd on VU Meters,
  
 Can't Meters be additional to any circuit, they're just volt meters, aren't they? 
  
 I do have some LED meters flickering on one piece of audio gear ( a vintage BSR 10-Band Eq ), nice looking but are they useful in some way?
  
 I love the aesthetics of a nice vintage Volt Meter (in my home-Shop)  but I rely on my Fluke and a Kilowatt meters.
  
 Tony in ….
  
 ps.  by the way, can you explain the success of CHORD's WTA filtering?


----------



## mithrandir38

One of the best values out there is RCA nos 6922 tubes. They are tonally killer and ran me about 20/25 bucks a piece. These were a late 60's batch. They transformed the sound of my Lyr and would likely be a good match in the M2.
As far as the OPPO/M2 goes, I've heard both and the M2 has much better treble performance than the OPPO, though the OPPO is more subjectively neutral.


----------



## rmoody

She's here! Now she has to warm up. Should I go skin to case? Would that help to go faster? haha


----------



## rmoody

MJ2 connected now, man, first word that came to mind was AUTHORITAH!
  
 My tubes are from Canada sounding pretty good through my Ether Cs balanced with low gain.
  
 Dug out some old XLR cables from my gig bag to run to my Yamaha HE8s since MJ2 will convert from SE to balanced. Since these will never see duty as what they were intended for I'm going to take the better of the two and cut it in half and re-end for my main speaker cables.
  
 So, question. I've noticed this on the MJ2 and the Vali 2 that once the amp's muting relay closes I get a pop through my HS8s even if I have the volume all the way down. Any little doodad that I could acquire or build that would prevent that? I have not tried with cans connected, would that prevent it?
  
 I scored a used Gungnir DS with USB 1 input that's on the way, I think I'll sacrifice the Bimby's USB 2 input for a while until finances recover enough to order another one. Guess I should also take off about 6 feet from that XLR cable for a pair of interconnects also.


----------



## jjacq

The Mjolnir 2 will work with PCC88 tubes too correct?


----------



## rmoody

jjacq said:


> The Mjolnir 2 will work with PCC88 tubes too correct?


 

 Here, so I don't misspeak:
  
 Choose Tube Hybrid, Solid-State, or Both
 Yes, that’s right. You can get Mjolnir 2 as a tube hybrid, or as a pure solid-state amp—or get both, and swap out as you’d like. You can also swap the standard 6BZ7 tubes for anything in the 6DJ8, 6922, ECC88, and 2492 families, to “roll” the sound to your specific preference. Or just opt for the Schiit LISST (Linear, Integral Solid-State Tube) for a 100% solid state amp.


----------



## ETanner

I've got some questions for those of you who've compared the M2 and the Ragnarok. Of course I have the obligatory multipage setup. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Current setup are HD600s being fed from files on a MacMini (Alac, Roon, Tidal, Audirvana) through a Bimby and Valhalla 2.  Everything I've enjoyed with this setup has convinced me a Yggy is in my future. I want to utilize a balanced setup although the V2 seems headphones fine in the meantime. Music is classical, jazz, acoustic, and re-experiencing the 70s & 80s with thoughtful engagement.
  
 Discounting the extra power and connections of the Rag does it offer significant advantages over the Mjolnir 2? I'm convinced the Yggy is worth the upgrade over the Gumby however I don't have that same confidence in the Ragnarok. Yes, I would replace my Yamaha receiver to power the JBL Control 5s but I get most of my listening pleasure with headphones, perhaps because of the warmth of the V2 or the synergy of the dac/amp. HD800Ss might also end up on my stand with the 600s but I'm not perceiving the advantage of one amp over the other based upon features.
 How do those familiar with both Schiit amps talk about their relative sound signatures with phones?


----------



## murphythecat

yes, Id really like to know as well. if you dont need the extra power, how do the Ragnarok compares to the Mjolnir2!


----------



## rmoody

I'd love insight on this as well. I'm not considering upgrading to the Raggy, but would like to hear what others say.
  
 Now, if Jason pulls a tube hybrid raggy out of his rear, yeah, that's a different story.
  
 I just cannot get over how much I am loving the tube hybrid sound. My first ever listen to any tube sound was my buddy birro's Valhalla 2. I liked it ok, wasn't thrilled about it. Next was his Vali 1 which had microphonic issues. I really enjoyed that, but my cans were too sensitive for it. Even after it was replaced and the microphonic issues gone. Once the Vali 2 was released, bigro ordered one and I got to borrow it for a few days and he just about didn't get it back. I mean I loved that sound. Granted I had moved from Shure 1540's to MrSpeakers Ether C but still. It was so fun, and engaging that I had to get myself a tube hybrid amp thus my MJ2 arrived today. I cannot express how much I am loving this thing!


----------



## tjl5709

jjacq said:


> The Mjolnir 2 will work with PCC88 tubes too correct?


 

 Yes. I beleive those are simular to 7308's.
  
 Telefunken E88CC and Amperex 7308's are my goto everyday listeners.


----------



## tjl5709

rmoody said:


> I'd love insight on this as well. I'm not considering upgrading to the Raggy, but would like to hear what others say.
> 
> Now, if Jason pulls a tube hybrid raggy out of his rear, yeah, that's a different story.
> 
> I just cannot get over how much I am loving the tube hybrid sound. My first ever listen to any tube sound was my buddy birro's Valhalla 2. I liked it ok, wasn't thrilled about it. Next was his Vali 1 which had microphonic issues. I really enjoyed that, but my cans were too sensitive for it. Even after it was replaced and the microphonic issues gone. Once the Vali 2 was released, bigro ordered one and I got to borrow it for a few days and he just about didn't get it back. I mean I loved that sound. Granted I had moved from Shure 1540's to MrSpeakers Ether C but still. It was so fun, and engaging that I had to get myself a tube hybrid amp thus my MJ2 arrived today. I cannot express how much I am loving this thing!


 

 Interesting. I got my Ether C's today and they are currently running to flex the drivers abit. Figured I give'em a day or so before any critical listening. The gumby/MJ2 compo got me really addicted to my music collection again such that I also am moving up to the yggy. I will keep the MJ2 as I'm with you. Just love the tube hybrid sound.


----------



## shultzee

tjl5709 said:


> rmoody said:
> 
> 
> > I'd love insight on this as well. I'm not considering upgrading to the Raggy, but would like to hear what others say.
> ...


 

 Same thing happened to me.  Had the Gumby/Mj2 combo and it was so dang good it got me excited and involved with music again.    So sold them both and now have the YGGY and will have another MJ2 to pair with it someday.   I personally want to stay with the hybrid amp so I won't even consider a rag.


----------



## watchnerd

Just put in some $13.95 (each) current production Electro-Harmonix 6922, swapping out the vintage Amperex Orange Globes.
  
 The increase in dynamics, headroom, and gain (mu) is so big it makes the vintage tubes seem flaccid in comparison.  
  
 And lower noise, too.


----------



## rmoody

watchnerd said:


> Just put in some $13.95 (each) current production Electro-Harmonix 6922, swapping out the vintage Amperex Orange Globes.
> 
> The increase in dynamics, headroom, and gain (mu) is so big it makes the vintage tubes seem flaccid in comparison.
> 
> And lower noise, too.


 
  
 Curious, what were your stock tubes? Mine are Canada something hehe I'll have to go look. Besides, it's time to put the LISST in and compare I think.
  
 Have a friend that raves about those also. Now I may have to take the plunge. He only got one for his Vali 2, I told him to cancel the order and buy two, I mean, that was a perfectly reasonable request, right? But he refused! Can you believe it?


----------



## watchnerd

rmoody said:


> Curious, what were your stock tubes? Mine are Canada something hehe I'll have to go look. Besides, it's time to put the LISST in and compare I think.
> 
> Have a friend that raves about those also. Now I may have to take the plunge. He only got one for his Vali 2, I told him to cancel the order and buy two, I mean, that was a perfectly reasonable request, right? But he refused! Can you believe it?


 
  
 I didn't get stock tubes.  I had mine shipped with the LISST because I already had a few pairs of 6DJ88's lying around the house in sock drawers.
  
 The EH's are only $13.95, cheap enough to experiment.  And even if you don't like them you'll have a spare set of tubes to use when others go bad.


----------



## ETanner

murphythecat said:


> yes, Id really like to know as well. if you dont need the extra power, how do the Ragnarok compares to the Mjolnir2!


 

 I've continued to search the forums tonight and came across this post from @reddog: http://www.head-fi.org/t/731221/schiit-ragnarok-amplifier/1005#post_11987691.  In it he suggests some pretty significant sonic differences. I'll shoot him a pm if he doesn't pipe in here.


----------



## jjacq

I tried the HD800 modded with the Ragnarok and while there are slightly more details on the rag, I found myself missing the midrange that I get with my Mjo2 + orange globes tubes. The Mjo + LISST v Rag to me sounded very similar. I was thinking of going up to a rag but I felt like tonality-wise I was very close to the rag with the mjo2+lisst. My assumption is that if you pair the mjo2 with excellent tubes then you'll probably get a really enjoyable amplifier that's great for the price. The Ether sounded very dynamic with the Ragnarok and I don't know why it sounded similar with the HD800 yet completely different with the Ether. I was hoping for a be-all-end-all amp that can drive all 3 headphones I have. The Ragnarok didn't do it for me with the HD800 and while I liked it with the Ether, it still sounds pretty damn good with the Mjo2. Sadly I didn't get to try the Rag with the LCD-X though I have a feeling that it'll be just as excellent as the Ether and the X like similar sources.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

etanner said:


> I've got some questions for those of you who've compared the M2 and the Ragnarok. Of course I have the obligatory multipage setup.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm a little confused. HD600s are little more than $200 used—you're thinking about a $1700 amplifier before upgrading your headphones? I would figure out what headphones you're hoping to acquire first, and then move onto the amp question. Is an HE6/1000 in your future? A K812? An LCD series? The Sennheisers are more than capable of sounding great on a Valhalla, even while that amp will hardly show them in all their (balanced) glory. Unless you want an HE6, I would spring for the flexibility of Mjolnir 2 every day of the week. The savings are merely gravy. If you do want the HE6, I would hold off until Schiit pulls off the same trick for Ragnarok 2 as they did for Mjolnir 2 or begin investigating speaker amps.
  
 Footnote, HD800S looks interesting, though I take from the reviews the sense that while it's a better all-rounder than the 800, it's a step backward at classical—and can't actually compete with Audeze and Hifiman on popular genres of music.


----------



## ETanner

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I'm a little confused. HD600s are little more than $200 used—you're thinking about a $1700 amplifier before upgrading your headphones? I would figure out what headphones you're hoping to acquire first, and then move onto the amp question. Is an HE6/1000 in your future? A K812? An LCD series? The Sennheisers are more than capable of sounding great on a Valhalla, even while that amp will hardly show them in all their (balanced) glory. Unless you want an HE6, I would spring for the flexibility of Mjolnir 2 every day of the week. The savings are merely gravy. If you do want the HE6, I would hold off until Schiit pulls off the same trick for Ragnarok 2 as they did for Mjolnir 2 or begin investigating speaker amps.
> 
> Footnote, HD800S looks interesting, though I take from the reviews the sense that while it's a better all-rounder than the 800, it's a step backward at classical—and can't actually compete with Audeze and Hifiman on popular genres of music.


 

 So bosiemoncrieff you can't answer my question however you want to play in my sandbox. Let's play.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yes, you are confused. Perhaps it started when you overlooked my premises. The essential inquiry I'm making is based upon the assumption that an Yggdrasil is in my future. The Sennheiser HD600 will enjoy that content. This headphone may not be the latest brand of the month but it remains highly respected. It is endgame for lots of listeners who don't judge according to an inflation prone industry. That said, I'm trusting this community--while maintaining some rigor in my own inquiries--to cull those inquiries on the front end. 
  
 I have a setup I enjoy a great deal. I know how I listen to my music and what brings me joy. *If* I purchase the Yggy, *then* which of these amps, *according to *my trusted community and *without disregarding* my own *rigorous* and *well plied* preferences, would they suggest? 
  
 I am working a process, not fantasizing about all the products and possibilities. My process is necessarily limited according to a criteria unknown to you *so it seems to me* when you read you are inclined to respond with conventional wisdom and the flavor of the month, rather than ask a question of me that clarifies an unknown. I used to do that all the time; I don't so much any more unless I'm trying to play in someone else's sandbox, like now.
  
 I apparently eliminated you from the discussion when I asked for folks who *knew* the sound of both the Mjolnir 2 and the Ragnarok. Funny thing about these forums though, we all want to play even if we don't have the tools or the sand to build a particular castle. Be patient. It will come to you eventually.
  
 Thanks for reaching out and thanks for receiving my pointy words back toward you. I've been smiling while playing with you. Next time I'm in SF I'll buy you a beer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (uups, I don't know that you even drink beer!).


----------



## claud W

etanner said:


> I've got some questions for those of you who've compared the M2 and the Ragnarok. Of course I have the obligatory multipage setup.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Here's a comparison by Redog www.head-fi.org/t/731221/schiit-ragnarok-amplifier/1005#post_11987691


----------



## ETanner

claud w said:


> Here's a comparison by Redog www.head-fi.org/t/731221/schiit-ragnarok-amplifier/1005#post_11987691



Thanks Claud W. I also found that post. It's very helpful imo.


----------



## zive

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I'm a little confused. HD600s are little more than $200 used—you're thinking about a $1700 amplifier before upgrading your headphones? I would figure out what headphones you're hoping to acquire first, and then move onto the amp question. Is an HE6/1000 in your future? A K812? An LCD series? The Sennheisers are more than capable of sounding great on a Valhalla, even while that amp will hardly show them in all their (balanced) glory. Unless you want an HE6, I would spring for the flexibility of Mjolnir 2 every day of the week. The savings are merely gravy. If you do want the HE6, I would hold off until Schiit pulls off the same trick for Ragnarok 2 as they did for Mjolnir 2 or begin investigating speaker amps.
> 
> Footnote, HD800S looks interesting, though I take from the reviews the sense that while it's a better all-rounder than the 800, it's a step backward at classical—and can't actually compete with Audeze and Hifiman on popular genres of music.


 
  


etanner said:


> So bosiemoncrieff you can't answer my question however you want to play in my sandbox. Let's play.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 No need for defensiveness. Some people would rather drive a fast car slowly, while others prefer to drive a slow car above the speed limit. In the end we're all going to arrive at our destination.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

im considering this setup, violectric dac v800, mjolnir 2.  Two things i need to figure out.  i would like to run the mjolnir as a pre-amp to my power amp for my speakers. is that ok because the mjolnir says to run the pre-amp outs to powered speakers.  im sure it's fine as a powered speaker is just an amp directly connected to the speaker opposed to having an external cable connecting them but just wanted to be sure. if i do this will the mjolnir still utilize the tubes through the pre-amp outs?
 Secondly, the violectric has a volume knob on it and i've only ever used dac's that don't and just controlled the volume with the amp.  Will this combo still work?


----------



## zive

That should all work just fine. You will be able to run balanced or SE out from the v800 to the MJ2, then run RCA's from your MJ2's output to one of the inputs on your power amplifier (or XLR's if you have that option on your amp). Having a DAC and Pre-amp with potentiometers is a little redundant, but I would just set your v800 volume pretty high, and make your day-to-day volume adjustments with the MJ2.
  
 As you mentioned, the MJ2's tubes are in the pre-amp stage so the tubes are still part of the chain if you opt to use the pre-amp outputs at the back of the unit.
  
 My only question is what make/model is your power amp? Is it a true "power amp" or is it an integrated amplifier? 
  
 Cheers


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I've heard mixed results about Mjolnir 2 powering HE6—how does balanced vs unbalanced operation affect them?


----------



## DoctaCosmos

amp will be a parasound a23 with balanced inputs and thanks a bunch.  I figured that running the v800 at full volume would be the best bet because of the whole bit loss at lower volume in the digital domain.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Footnote, would the mj2 do better with the he6 or the k812?


----------



## ToddRaymond

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I've heard mixed results about Mjolnir 2 powering HE6—how does balanced vs unbalanced operation affect them?




You'd absolutely want to go balanced, as the amp will only put out 2 watts (at 32 ohms) through its single-ended output. Balanced out, you'll likely get reasonable performance, but at higher volumes it'll* Schiit its pants, etc.

EDIT: *It may not be enough for you, but it totally may. Obviously, YMMV, DMV, ROFL, LMAOnnaise, etc.


----------



## ToddRaymond

Side note: Has anyone compared the Telefunken ECC88 Platinums to the '75 Reflektor SWGP silver shields? (And the 'Hair Splitter of the Year Award' goes to...)


----------



## rb2013

turdski said:


> Side note: Has anyone compared the Telefunken ECC88 Platinums to the '75 Reflektor SWGP silver shields? (And the 'Hair Splitter of the Year Award' goes to...)


 

 Yes in my review  - AND the better Tele E188CC's a significant step up in sound over the ECC88 version - and a lot more expensive.  The Platinum just refers to Upscale's grading and matching  system - there is no Platinum in there.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-MATCHED-PAIR-TELEFUNKEN-Ulm-GERMANY-Audiophile-TUBES-7308-CV4108-CCa-/301860096762?hash=item4648438afa:g:1~wAAOSwymxVNl-9


----------



## rnros

turdski said:


> Side note: Has anyone compared the Telefunken ECC88 Platinums to the '75 Reflektor SWGP silver shields? (And the 'Hair Splitter of the Year Award' goes to...)


 

 I would also include the '74 Reflektor SWGP SS as a possibility. Have all three tubes and have used them in the Mol2, Val2, and the Lyr1&2. All three are great tubes, but I listen to the Reflectors more often.
 Check with RB for the Reflektors. The '74s are a good value when available.


----------



## rmoody

rnros said:


> I would also include the '74 Reflektor SWGP SS as a possibility. Have all three tubes and have used them in the Mol2, Val2, and the Lyr1&2. All three are great tubes, but I listen to the Reflectors more often.
> Check with RB for the Reflektors. The '74s are a good value when available.


 

 Define "RB" for us noobs please.


----------



## DWbirdseye

rmoody said:


> Define "RB" for us noobs please.



Look back 3 posts. RB 2013


----------



## deserat

Hey all I've got got a Senheisser HDVA 600 on loan and have the option to purchase for about $850. I have found it decimates the Lyr 2 ( Telefunken Tubes ) that I own in terms of exposing  detail. It also seems to bring the Bass in both my HD 800 and HD 600 up to a level that competes with my HE 560's  ( driven by the Lyr 2 ). While I know that it's a somewhat absurd question to ask given the price of the two amps but  given my experience with Schiit it seems less absurd, I'm wondering how the Mjolnir 2 fairs against the HDVA 600.

 The truth I ... I'll be moving to a Gumby for the DAC and really like being about to stack amps. I also really like supporting local small businesses. But well sound... this all boils down to the sound!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Also very curious about that. Though mj2 is a ninja that can transform between tubes and ss in ways hdva can only dream of...


----------



## Argo Duck

Have not heard Lyr 2 but I found detail was not a strength of the original Lyr - certainly compared to more expensive amps!

One question though: did you level match? Comparisons can be highly misleading if not or if matched by ear - as I discovered!

Mj and Mj2 and Rag are circlotron, a completely different topology from the Lyrs. The sound of one is no guide to the others. 



deserat said:


> Hey all I've got got a Senheisser HDVA 600 on loan and have the option to purchase for about $850. I have found it decimates the Lyr 2 ( Telefunken Tubes ) that I own in terms of exposing  detail. It also seems to bring the Bass in both my HD 800 and HD 600 up to a level that competes with my HE 560's  ( driven by the Lyr 2 ). While I know that it's a somewhat absurd question to ask given the price of the two amps but  given my experience with Schiit it seems less absurd, I'm wondering how the Mjolnir 2 fairs against the HDVA 600.
> 
> 
> The truth I ... I'll be moving to a Gumby for the DAC and really like being about to stack amps. I also really like supporting local small businesses. But well sound... this all boils down to the sound!


----------



## deserat

argo duck said:


> Have not heard Lyr 2 but I found detail was not a strength of the original Lyr - certainly compared to more expensive amps!
> 
> One question though: did you level match? Comparisons can be highly misleading if not or if matched by ear - as I discovered!
> 
> Mj and Mj2 and Rag are circlotron, a completely different topology from the Lyrs. The sound of one is no guide to the others.


 
  
 I didn't level match. I don't have the equipment for that so I have to adjust volume by ear.  The resolution and dynamics difference  between the Lyr 2 and the HDVA 600 is so large though, I don't think it'd matter.  It's night and day. I didn't really expect the Lyr 2 to compete with the HDVA... what I'm wondering is if the Mjolnir would? Or perhaps it'd take the Ragnorok to get to that level. 
  
 Oh and I'll be keeping the Lyr on my secondary system... cause I do love it.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

I'm pretty curiopus about the mj2 and hd800S. Wondering of they pair well


----------



## watchnerd

deserat said:


> I didn't level match. I don't have the equipment for that so I have to adjust volume by ear.  The resolution and dynamics difference  between the Lyr 2 and the HDVA 600 is so large though, I don't think it'd matter.  It's night and day. I didn't really expect the Lyr 2 to compete with the HDVA... what I'm wondering is if the Mjolnir would? Or perhaps it'd take the Ragnorok to get to that level.
> 
> Oh and I'll be keeping the Lyr on my secondary system... cause I do love it.


 
  
 do you have an iPhone?
  
 You can use one of the dB meter apps to level match with moderate accuracy.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

The HE-6 people on the HE-6 thread seem to scoff at Mjolnir (1 and 2), but according to Hifiman specs, both the EF-6 and MJ2 get 5W at 50 ohms. EF-6 is class a, is Mjolnir 2? Schiit's website doesn't seem to specify...


----------



## watchnerd

bosiemoncrieff said:


> The HE-6 people on the HE-6 thread seem to scoff at Mjolnir (1 and 2), but according to Hifiman specs, both the EF-6 and MJ2 get 5W at 50 ohms. EF-6 is class a, is Mjolnir 2? Schiit's website doesn't seem to specify...


 
  
 Mine runs so hot I'm pretty dang sure it's operating at Class A within the power envelope I use it.


----------



## elwappo99

bosiemoncrieff said:


> The HE-6 people on the HE-6 thread seem to scoff at Mjolnir (1 and 2), but according to Hifiman specs, both the EF-6 and MJ2 get 5W at 50 ohms. EF-6 is class a, is Mjolnir 2? Schiit's website doesn't seem to specify...


 
  
  
 Mojo and HE-6 aren't an ideal matching. You'll get sound and it'll be loud, but the bass will sound thin and the treble will be very forward. If you want an HE-6 you need to get a dedicate amp for it. It's a beat on its own.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Classical's demands on bass are less than other genres—does this mitigate the shortfalls at all?


----------



## ToddRaymond

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Classical's demands on bass are less than other genres—does this mitigate the shortfalls at all?




Ya know, in my two channel setup I have what is sort of the smaller sibling of what I personally would consider to be the HE-6 of monitors/standmounts (at the very least in terms of power requirements for their size or class): the Totem 'Mani-2'. Now, my 'The One's (an über 'Model One') don't need nearly as much good, clean juice to sing beautifully as the Mani-2s ought to have, but previously I had been powering them with an amp that had, in retrospect, seemingly zero headroom (at best). Now I can see (durr, hear) just how much control/finesse/alien screw**g wizardry I was missing—regardless of genre—when using an amp that didn't quite cut it. (What elwapo99 said... except that tubes could mitigate some/much of/none of the sibilance.)

The 'Mojo' is a truly wonderful amp, and you could use it as a starting point for many a fine 'phone. However, if the HE-6 is your ultimate transducer, you could save yourself some time and money by not possibly wanting to upgrade beyond this amp after the fact. Having said all that, try not to get too lost in all the numbers/specs. One individual may perceive the jump from a Mojo to say, a Ragnarok, to be colossal. For you it may not sound like double the price. Of course, there are much cheaper routes available in speaker amps, that'll give you more power, that cost far less, but I imagine most won't deliver a sound nearly as beautiful as what a Rag will put out, and so on and blahbiddy-blah. Good luck.


----------



## watchnerd

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Classical's demands on bass are less than other genres—does this mitigate the shortfalls at all?


 
  
 Go listen to the 1812 Overture (with canons) or Toccata & Fugue in D Minor played on a pipe organ and get back to me on that.


----------



## rmoody

If I wanted to build a little mute box for the XLR balanced preamp outs to my powered monitors for the MJ2, should I short the + and - to ground or short + and - to each other?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

turdski said:


> Ya know, in my two channel setup I have what is sort of the smaller sibling of what I personally would consider to be the HE-6 of monitors/standmounts (at the very least in terms of power requirements for their size or class): the Totem 'Mani-2'. Now, my 'The One's (an über 'Model One') don't need nearly as much good, clean juice to sing beautifully as the Mani-2s ought to have, but previously I had been powering them with an amp that had, in retrospect, seemingly zero headroom (at best). Now I can see (durr, hear) just how much control/finesse/alien screw**g wizardry I was missing—regardless of genre—when using an amp that didn't quite cut it. (What elwapo99 said... except that tubes could mitigate some/much of/none of the sibilance.)
> 
> The 'Mojo' is a truly wonderful amp, and you could use it as a starting point for many a fine 'phone. However, if the HE-6 is your ultimate transducer, you could save yourself some time and money by not possibly wanting to upgrade beyond this amp after the fact. Having said all that, try not to get too lost in all the numbers/specs. One individual may perceive the jump from a Mojo to say, a Ragnarok, to be colossal. For you it may not sound like double the price. Of course, there are much cheaper routes available in speaker amps, that'll give you more power, that cost far less, but I imagine most won't deliver a sound nearly as beautiful as what a Rag will put out, and so on and blahbiddy-blah. Good luck.


 

 Point taken, though even the Rag is not in favor among the HE6 fans either—too 'bright' or 'strident'.


----------



## Argo Duck

I don't doubt you but food for thought: my specific experience was with a Meier Concerto (~500mW into 50 ohms with standard 2V in) versus the Lyr 1 (4W/50 ohms). I _swore_ the two were practically indistinguishable and could not understand others' comments that the Concerto was "dry" and "thin". I had level-matched by ear.

Subsequently I set out to compare several DACs where level-matching was essential. Imagine my embarrassment on discovering my 'level-matched' amps differed by some 3-4dBA (IIRC). I was running the Concerto the louder. Doing this 'matched' the amps in terms of dynamics and I guess - subjectively - I 'heard' this as the same level, an interesting finding in itself.

But once properly matched (audio meter, pink-noise, chosen level 80 dBA) I had to agree the Concerto was somewhat bright, thin, analytical and dry by comparison!

Of course I "ear-matched" and found two amps the same whereas you ear-matched and find them different. This experience of mine may not apply. Nevertheless, I've been careful to level-match (with a meter but a smart phone app is adequate too) ever since!



deserat said:


> I didn't level match. I don't have the equipment for that so I have to adjust volume by ear.  The resolution and dynamics difference  between the Lyr 2 and the HDVA 600 is so large though, I don't think it'd matter.  It's night and day. I didn't really expect the Lyr 2 to compete with the HDVA... what I'm wondering is if the Mjolnir would? Or perhaps it'd take the Ragnorok to get to that level.
> 
> Oh and I'll be keeping the Lyr on my secondary system... cause I do love it.


----------



## Uchiya

bosiemoncrieff said:


> The HE-6 people on the HE-6 thread seem to scoff at Mjolnir (1 and 2), but according to Hifiman specs, both the EF-6 and MJ2 get 5W at 50 ohms. EF-6 is class a, is Mjolnir 2? Schiit's website doesn't seem to specify...


 
 It's a fine combo.  I'm running an HE-6 with MJ1.  Nothing thin about the bass with the Mjolnir, hits damn hard with tracks that call for it; surprised how much thump some of Selena Gomez's songs have =)
 It is a smidge "shouty" sometimes, not often; typically experienced with vocals, especially with movie dialogue.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

uchiya said:


> It's a fine combo.  I'm running an HE-6 with MJ1.  Nothing thin about the bass with the Mjolnir, hits damn hard with tracks that call for it; surprised how much thump some of Selena Gomez's songs have =)
> It is a smidge "shouty" sometimes, not often; typically experienced with vocals, especially with movie dialogue.


 

 That makes me feel much better, thanks!


----------



## rb2013

uchiya said:


> It's a fine combo.  I'm running an HE-6 with MJ1.  Nothing thin about the bass with the Mjolnir, hits damn hard with tracks that call for it; surprised how much thump some of Selena Gomez's songs have =)
> It is a smidge "shouty" sometimes, not often; typically experienced with vocals, especially with movie dialogue.


 

 You can improve the smoothness with better tubes.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'd rather keep it under $100 for the pair. What should I look at?


----------



## deserat

argo duck said:


> I don't doubt you but food for thought: my specific experience was with a Meier Concerto (~500mW into 50 ohms with standard 2V in) versus the Lyr 1 (4W/50 ohms). I _swore_ the two were practically indistinguishable and could not understand others' comments that the Concerto was "dry" and "thin". I had level-matched by ear.
> 
> Subsequently I set out to compare several DACs where level-matching was essential. Imagine my embarrassment on discovering my 'level-matched' amps differed by some 3-4dBA (IIRC). I was running the Concerto the louder. Doing this 'matched' the amps in terms of dynamics and I guess - subjectively - I 'heard' this as the same level, an interesting finding in itself.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Will do.  Didn't realize I could level check with a phone  Always good to learn.


----------



## rmoody

deserat said:


> Will do.  Didn't realize I could level check with a phone  Always good to learn.


 

 Same, never thought about that. Of course, now I want a decibel meter, natch.


----------



## Eustachian

Anyone tried the Telefunken E188ccs ? How do they sound with mjolnir 2?


----------



## rb2013

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I'd rather keep it under $100 for the pair. What should I look at?


 

 The Amperex Orange Globes if you want a warmer - less detailed sound - they are a bit woolly for my taste, but many folks like them.  Amperex 6DJ8/E88CC Heerleen (labled Amperex, Philips, Valvo as well - see my review of the Valvo Herleen E88CC '67 Large Halos. They are also warm tubes.  They can be had for $70-$80.  Also the Tesla E88CC more detailed if a bit etchy - same price.  In the Russian stuff-  the 6N23P Reflektor '74 Single Wire Gray Shield Single Wire Getter Posts - around $90.
  
 All of them are a major step-up from the stock tube.  You'll want to look for a matched and tested pair.
  
 I have a spare pair of the '74 Relfektor Gray SWGP available if you're interested - PM me.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## rb2013

rockthemboots said:


> Anyone tried the Telefunken E188ccs ? How do they sound with mjolnir 2?


 

 Yes!  They are extrodinary!  Near the top of the charts - see my tube review.  Although I ranked them #4 - they were very close to the #3 and #2 tubes.  They do it all great.  That was in a Schiit Lyr though not a MJ2.  So YMMV.  They aren't cheap though.   The Tele E88CC are also very good.  You'll want the '60s versions from Ulm.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-MATCHED-PAIR-TELEFUNKEN-Ulm-GERMANY-Audiophile-TUBES-7308-CV4108-CCa-/301860096762?hash=item4648438afa:g:1~wAAOSwymxVNl-9
  
 The Tele '60s Ulm E188CC did very well in this shootout:
 http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/6dj8.html


----------



## EinZweiDrei

How do the orange globes compare to the gold lions?


----------



## watchnerd

einzweidrei said:


> How do the orange globes compare to the gold lions?


 
  
 The orange globes offer a woolly, vintage, citrus haze with laid more back dynamics and a technicolor roundedness to leading edges, while the gold lions are more vibrant, zaftig but fierce like a russian mother bear, a bit bright, with sharp transients and decay that bleeds long and slow into the background silence like a deer dying in a winter forest.


----------



## rb2013

einzweidrei said:


> How do the orange globes compare to the gold lions?


 
 The OG's are much warmer the the GLs  -the GLs are the best of the new production tubes made besides the ridiculously expensive Black Sables.  But the GL's are not cheap - and just can't match the equivalent vintage tubes from the 60's and 70's.  It was a lost art.
  


watchnerd said:


> The orange globes offer a woolly, vintage, citrus haze with laid more back dynamics and a technicolor roundedness to leading edges, while the gold lions are more vibrant, zaftig but fierce like a russian mother bear, a bit bright, with sharp transients and decay that bleeds long and slow into the background silence like a deer dying in a winter forest.


 
 Agreed!


----------



## EinZweiDrei

whats the difference in sound between 1968 and 1969 orange globes?


----------



## watchnerd

einzweidrei said:


> whats the difference in sound between 1968 and 1969 orange globes?


 
  
 The '68s are a little more rebellious in the dynamics while the '69s are more controlled and technical.


----------



## EinZweiDrei

watchnerd said:


> The '68s are a little more rebellious in the dynamics while the '69s are more controlled and technical.


 
 sounds like the 69s might suit me better.


----------



## rb2013

einzweidrei said:


> sounds like the 69s might suit me better.


 

 You might want to check out the late '50s Bugle Boys as well.


----------



## EinZweiDrei

How much of an upgrade is the mjolnir 2 from a valhalla2 or lyr2.


----------



## Skooks

The Telefunken E88CC's sound really NICE with the HE-6's and now with the HE1000's. 
  
 While I've got your attention, let me say a little bit more...
  
 I also have a really nice DAC that doesn't cost you a BMW... Wyred 4 Sound 1LE with Femto Clock. But, between it and my iMac and the Audirvanna Plus program that plays all my fFLAC and DSD files, is a Wyred 4 Sound Recovery. 
  
 This is an all balanced system from the DAC to HE1000's.
  
 I've been an audiophile for a long time... and I would hate to tell you the amount of money I've put into speaker systems before... I do think I know good sound when these ears get a hold of it... and I'm listening to good sound! That's not to say that you can buy an all tube amp and get a little more resolution... but for most of us here, believe me, this is one fine system, either with HE-6's or HE1000's.


----------



## tuxbass

This has been bothering me for a long time, so here we go ...
 I know the MJ2 is expected to run warm. But how warm is warm. After about 45 mins, my unit is smoking hot (not warm).
  
 For instance I can make a quick volume adjustment, but I can't leave my fingers on the volume pot for more than a few seconds (not that I need to but just to give you an idea of how hot it gets).
  
 Should I be worried ?
  
 Thanks


----------



## watchnerd

tuxbass said:


> This has been bothering me for a long time, so here we go ...
> I know the MJ2 is expected to run warm. But how warm is warm. After about 45 mins, my unit is smoking hot (not warm).
> 
> For instance I can make a quick volume adjustment, but I can't leave my fingers on the volume pot for more than a few seconds (not that I need to but just to give you an idea of how hot it gets).
> ...


 
  
 Mine is much the same. Welcome to Class A amplification!
  
 But seriously, can you take a temp reading with an infrared thermometer?


----------



## crazychile

tuxbass said:


> This has been bothering me for a long time, so here we go ...
> I know the MJ2 is expected to run warm. But how warm is warm. After about 45 mins, my unit is smoking hot (not warm).
> 
> For instance I can make a quick volume adjustment, but I can't leave my fingers on the volume pot for more than a few seconds (not that I need to but just to give you an idea of how hot it gets).
> ...


 

 Normal.
 -At least that has been my experience with a Lyr 2. If you use LISSTs it will run a lot cooler, but I don't think it sounds nearly as good as even the stock tubes.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

LISST is okay; I go through phases of LISST and the stock tubes. It's nice having a solid state option there for you to compare with. My MJ2 can run quite hot, though I give it plenty of ventilation.


----------



## rnros

_*"I know the MJ2 is expected to run warm. But how warm is warm. After about 45 mins, my unit is smoking hot (not warm)."*_
  
 Just to clarify: is this 45 mins of warmup time without playing music? If yes, does it cool down a bit after you start feeding a signal?
  
 Like the Lyr, it is described as a "Class A/AB" amp so it will get very hot if it's not feeding a set of headphones.


----------



## shultzee

tuxbass said:


> This has been bothering me for a long time, so here we go ...
> I know the MJ2 is expected to run warm. But how warm is warm. After about 45 mins, my unit is smoking hot (not warm).
> 
> For instance I can make a quick volume adjustment, but I can't leave my fingers on the volume pot for more than a few seconds (not that I need to but just to give you an idea of how hot it gets).
> ...


 

 My Mj2 always ran warm but not hot where you couldn't leave your hand on it or the volume pot.   If yours is in a stack try running it by itself.  If its still as hot as you describe I would say something is wrong.


----------



## EinZweiDrei

Using socket savers might make it run a little cooler and also makes tube rolling less of a chore.


----------



## rb2013

I have always been curious about the 5670 tubes as a sub for the 6922.
 The issue is the pinouts - they are different - but the creative folks at iFi have come up with an adapter fitted to one of the best of the NOS 5670's - the GE JAN-5670W (JAN stands for Joint-Army-Navy).
  


> From NOS General Electric 5670 tube/valve
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Anybody try these iFi's?
  
http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-nos-6922-2/


----------



## EinZweiDrei

how much am i missing out if i run them out of SE instead of balance?


----------



## watchnerd

einzweidrei said:


> how much am i missing out if i run them out of SE instead of balance?


 
  
 32.8%


----------



## EinZweiDrei

watchnerd said:


> 32.8%


 

 thats actually more than enough to justify going full balance.
 what if i run balance out of gungnir multibit into balance in on mjolnir 2 but use headphone out.


----------



## watchnerd

einzweidrei said:


> thats actually more than enough to justify going full balance.
> what if i run balance out of gungnir multibit into balance in on mjolnir 2 but use headphone out.


 
  
 You will lose 17.9% of the benefit


----------



## EinZweiDrei

What are some good balance cables for hd6xx and he400i?


----------



## Nautrachkfriend

einzweidrei said:


> What are some good balance cables for hd6xx and he400i?


 
 I ordered a Venus Audio balanced cable for my HE-400i and am thoroughly enjoying the sound it brings to the HE-400i from my Mjolnir 2 and Gumby in balanced mode.
  
  
  
  
 Here is the link:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Sennheiser-HD700-Hifiman-HE-400s-HE-1000-New-HE-400i-1-4-Cable-Cardas-/121858186090?hash=item1c5f505b6a:g:37IAAOSwvUlWtjsY


----------



## blance44

I have the exact same cable and can attest to it's quality. I was very pleasantly surprised when I finally received it.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I have their HD6xx cable, and it's slightly looser than the stock cable but fine. The HD800 cable, though, is clearly made from knockoff connectors and _very_ loose. You are warned. (I was advised to _use glue to attach it more securely_. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
  
 Also be prepared for generally slow, unresponsive, irritable customer service.


----------



## EinZweiDrei

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I have their HD6xx cable, and it's slightly looser than the stock cable but fine. The HD800 cable, though, is clearly made from knockoff connectors and _very_ loose. You are warned. (I was advised to _use glue to attach it more securely_. :eek: )
> 
> Also be prepared for generally slow, unresponsive, irritable customer service.



That doesnt sound good.


----------



## blance44

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I have their HD6xx cable, and it's slightly looser than the stock cable but fine. The HD800 cable, though, is clearly made from knockoff connectors and _very_ loose. You are warned. (I was advised to _use glue to attach it more securely_.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Come to think of it, their customer service was abnormally slow. It took them just over a week to respond to my email and over a month to ship it out for me.


----------



## Nautrachkfriend

blance44 said:


> Come to think of it, their customer service was abnormally slow. It took them just over a week to respond to my email and over a month to ship it out for me.




I also have to agree, the shipping was a bit slow, and I never dealt with customer service.

---------------------------------------

But as far as the HE-400i balanced cable specifically, nothing was wrong with it. Everything was put together properly, and fit properly, overall pleasing me for the price.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Just got my HE-6s, and they don't sound half bad with the Mjolnir 2! Joan Sutherland was a bit sibilant, but except opera featuring a soprano I have no sibilance complaints. People warned me that they would only do orchestral recordings justice with a much more potent amplifier, but I prefer the HD800 soundstage for large orchestras and opera anyway, so I think I may have found my perfect headphone for chamber and solo piano works. And, of course, anything non-classical—but it certainly is nowhere near as comfortable (or light) as the HD800s.
  
 Would rolling different tubes in MJ2 depending on the headphone ever be necessary? I'm still using the stock tubes, but I hope that the HE-6s don't present a sonic character so different as to demand a different pair of tubes.


----------



## rb2013

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Just got my HE-6s, and they don't sound half bad with the Mjolnir 2! Joan Sutherland was a bit sibilant, but except opera featuring a soprano I have no sibilance complaints. People warned me that they would only do orchestral recordings justice with a much more potent amplifier, but I prefer the HD800 soundstage for large orchestras and opera anyway, so I think I may have found my perfect headphone for chamber and solo piano works. And, of course, anything non-classical—but it certainly is nowhere near as comfortable (or light) as the HD800s.
> 
> Would rolling different tubes in MJ2 depending on the headphone ever be necessary? I'm still using the stock tubes, but I hope that the HE-6s don't present a sonic character so different as to demand a different pair of tubes.


 
 I would expect a totl pair of tubes to take both HPs to new heights in SQ.  The feedback so far on the Russian 6N23P '75 'HGs' has been overwhelmingly positive in the MJ2.  Not just an incremental improvement.  I suppose the biggest improvement will be in the detail retrieval and bass depth and definition.  With a few thousand dollars worth of HPs - a few hundred for a totl set of tubes seems reasonable.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## odevans

Anyone here have experience with the MJ2 and LCD-X?


----------



## DWbirdseye

rb2013 said:


> I would expect a totl pair of tubes to take both HPs to new heights in SQ.  The feedback so far on the Russian 6N23P '75 'HGs' has been overwhelmingly positive in the MJ2.  Not just an incremental improvement.  I suppose the biggest improvement will be in the detail retrieval and bass depth and definition.  With a few thousand dollars worth of HPs - a few hundred for a totl set of tubes seems reasonable.
> 
> Cheers!


I can attest to this.


----------



## EinZweiDrei

How much better is ragnarok+yggdrasil over mjolnir2+gungnir multibit anyways?


----------



## JohnnyCanuck

einzweidrei said:


> How much better is ragnarok+yggdrasil over mjolnir2+gungnir multibit anyways?


 
  
 16.3%


----------



## deserat

johnnycanuck said:


> 16.3%


 
  
 Was wonder when the troll would reveal himself as a troll.  Though I must admit I was laughing along.


----------



## EinZweiDrei

deserat said:


> Was wonder when the troll would reveal himself as a troll.  Though I must admit I was laughing along.


 
 troll? who me? im just wondering if the rag+ygg improvements over the mjolnir+gungnir is enough to justify the extra cost.


----------



## PurdueAlum

einzweidrei said:


> troll? who me? im just wondering if the rag+ygg improvements over the mjolnir+gungnir is enough to justify the extra cost.




Seems like a fair question to me.


----------



## Currawong

einzweidrei said:


> deserat said:
> 
> 
> > Was wonder when the troll would reveal himself as a troll.  Though I must admit I was laughing along.
> ...


 

 I think he meant the person that was replying to you with made-up numbers, who was trolling you as your question is unanswerable. 
  
 I think whether better gear from any manufacturer is "worth it" depends largely on the music you have first, followed by the headphones you use secondly. Usually, if you want to hear more fine details and "hear more into the music" of good recordings, you buy better gear. Justifying the cost is something you do or don't do yourself.


----------



## ToddRaymond

At the very least, I recall the mighty friendly and ever helpful reddog saying that a Yggdrasil and Mjolnir would be worthwhile and sensible. That is, if you could only afford to upgrade one of those components.


----------



## tjl5709

turdski said:


> At the very least, I recall the mighty friendly and ever helpful reddog saying that a Yggdrasil and Mjolnir would be worthwhile and sensible. That is, if you could only afford to upgrade one of those components.


 

 Based on his comments, I moved from gumby/mj2 to yggy/mj2.
  
 I see no reason for me to move to rag as I really like the tube sound, and I don't need all that power as I am HP only.
  
 Did I hear a difference? Yes. Same sound signiture, just more resolution and detail as he pointed out. It's amazing how much music it extracts from a redbook cd.


----------



## DougD

currawong said:


> I think he meant the person that was replying to you with made-up numbers, who was trolling you as your question is unanswerable.
> 
> I think whether better gear from any manufacturer is "worth it" depends largely on the music you have first, followed by the headphones you use secondly. Usually, if you want to hear more fine details and "hear more into the music" of good recordings, you buy better gear. Justifying the cost is something you do or don't do yourself.


 
  
 Also, available budget is a huge component of any "worth it" decision.


----------



## EinZweiDrei

I have the budget but im deciding if the significantly more expensive ygg & rag might be better that it'll convert me back into solid state setups. So far im a tube person. Also i am using headphones only.


----------



## Arnotts

einzweidrei said:


> troll? who me? im just wondering if the rag+ygg improvements over the mjolnir+gungnir is enough to justify the extra cost.


 
 Of course it is.
  
 ...but maybe not.
  
 You might be disappointed.
  
 ...but maybe not.
  
 (i.e. there's no right or wrong answer. You legitimately aren't going to get much more helpful information. The Rag + Yggy are the highest end models in Schiit's line up - they're better. How much better? Schiit themselves won't even tell you. Listen for yourself, that's all you can do).


----------



## Liu Junyuan

einzweidrei said:


> I have the budget but im deciding if the significantly more expensive ygg & rag might be better that it'll convert me back into solid state setups. So far im a tube person. Also i am using headphones only.


 
 Why don't you go for the Yggy and the Mjolnir 2, which will launch you into Schiit's flagship DAC while allowing you to both keep tubes and the balanced inputs to capitalize on the Yggy's balanced outputs? If I was set on Schiit's lineup, and given your preferences, that's what I would do.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

As symmetrical as the GMB would be with my MJ2, when I upgrade past the multi frost it will be straight to the Yggy. What's an extra thousand.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

bosiemoncrieff said:


> As symmetrical as the GMB would be with my MJ2, when I upgrade past the multi frost it will be straight to the Yggy. What's an extra thousand.


 
 Symmetry is overrated. That's why Schiit wisely opted for separate units instead of DAC/amp combos.


----------



## shultzee

liu junyuan said:


> einzweidrei said:
> 
> 
> > I have the budget but im deciding if the significantly more expensive ygg & rag might be better that it'll convert me back into solid state setups. So far im a tube person. Also i am using headphones only.
> ...


 

 +1   Thats a great combo.


----------



## EinZweiDrei

liu junyuan said:


> Why don't you go for the Yggy and the Mjolnir 2, which will launch you into Schiit's flagship DAC while allowing you to both keep tubes and the balanced inputs to capitalize on the Yggy's balanced outputs? If I was set on Schiit's lineup, and given your preferences, that's what I would do.



So mjolnir 2 is good enough. But how does gungnir multibit compare against yggdrasil. Don't want to overspend on an end game setup only to find that the difference is so little. Maybe theres another dac out there thats better and have balance outputs for around the same price?


----------



## joeexp

einzweidrei said:


> So mjolnir 2 is good enough. But how does gungnir multibit compare against yggdrasil. Don't want to overspend on an end game setup only to find that the difference is so little. Maybe theres another dac out there thats better and have balance outputs for around the same price?


 

 Not Possible!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

yeah, it's GMB or yggy, and if you're on this site, sooner or later your curiosity will come down on the side of Yggy: the only question is whether you drop 1300 on the GMB in the interim


----------



## shultzee

einzweidrei said:


> liu junyuan said:
> 
> 
> > Why don't you go for the Yggy and the Mjolnir 2, which will launch you into Schiit's flagship DAC while allowing you to both keep tubes and the balanced inputs to capitalize on the Yggy's balanced outputs? If I was set on Schiit's lineup, and given your preferences, that's what I would do.
> ...


 

 I had the Gungnir MB and now the yggy.  The Gunjnir MB is a very good dac and I thought probably the best I have heard for the money.   The Yggy. which I had to try just takes it a step further.   I hear details that other good dacs just didn't present.  I could have easily lived with the Gumby but I doubt I would go backwards now having the Yggy.   Personally I think if the Yggy is a 10 , the Gumby is a 8.5 .    I once owned a non MB Uber Bitfrost and it just wasn't that impressive to me.


----------



## Argo Duck

I don't think it's a question of the Mjolnir 2 being "good enough" compared to Rag. It's that the Mjo 2 provides a whole different range of options with its tube versus SS configurability. It's a brilliant achievement in its own right.

I love both tubes and SS and like to have an example of each, so Mjo 2 is definitely in my future.

But if I were SS-only Rag would be high on the list for sure


----------



## tjl5709

einzweidrei said:


> So mjolnir 2 is good enough. But how does gungnir multibit compare against yggdrasil. Don't want to overspend on an end game setup only to find that the difference is so little. Maybe theres another dac out there thats better and have balance outputs for around the same price?


 

 You've made a couple statements that really makes it easy. You like tubes and are phones only. You need nothing more than MJ2.
  
 With what I know now, I would have by-passed the gumby and gone straight to yggy. I'ver posted elsewhere, but for me the move to gumby confirmed what I had been reading but ignoring. In the equipment chain, DAC's are 2nd to the choice in phones in regards to impact on the sound given the same source.
  
 shultzee's assements are spot on; the gumby is very good, but since you have the budget, get the yggy and don't look back.  I'm not. The multibit platform does exactly what the folks at schiit set out to do. Make the redbook cd sound good. It does. Period.


----------



## shultzee

argo duck said:


> I don't think it's a question of the Mjolnir 2 being "good enough" compared to Rag. It's that the Mjo 2 provides a whole different range of options with its tube versus SS configurability. It's a brilliant achievement in its own right.
> 
> I love both tubes and SS and like to have an example of each, so Mjo 2 is definitely in my future.
> 
> But if I were SS-only Rag would be high on the list for sure


 

 I have tried a number of ss amps and I keep going back to tubes.  I agree the MJ2 is very unique.   However to me the right tubes play a very important part of it.
 I know its personal thing but I have a pair of Telefunken E88c  and they just don't give me the satisfaction the 75 Reflektors do.


----------



## shultzee

tjl5709 said:


> einzweidrei said:
> 
> 
> > So mjolnir 2 is good enough. But how does gungnir multibit compare against yggdrasil. Don't want to overspend on an end game setup only to find that the difference is so little. Maybe theres another dac out there thats better and have balance outputs for around the same price?
> ...


 
 I agree Dacs are second most important in the chain as long as you have a amp that can drive your phones.  Yggy >MJ2 is awesome for sure.
 I also agree with TJ that if you can afford it jump on the Yggy.   You won't have to wonder how much better it could be


----------



## EinZweiDrei

If gungnir multibit offers around 85% of ygg's performance then i like to save money. Just wondering how close gung mb is to ygg in sound, thats all.
Theres this law of diminishing returns in audio that doesn't really apply much to new pc rigs. When building a new computer the more expensive processor and videocard will perform significantly better than the cheaper one. In audio the point of diminishing return is for reals.


----------



## reddog

einzweidrei said:


> If gungnir multibit offers around 85% of ygg's performance then i like to save money. Just wondering how close gung mb is to ygg in sound, thats all.
> Theres this law of diminishing returns in audio that doesn't really apply much to new pc rigs. When building a new computer the more expensive processor and videocard will perform significantly better than the cheaper one. In audio the point of diminishing return is for reals.



Hi I own both the Yggdrasil and the Gungnir Multibit, and the Gumby sounds very nice however the Yggdrasil just blows it away. I hook up my Gungnir Multibit to my Liquid Crimson or Mjolnir 2, to watch tv, using my ETHER C's. Normally I am quite happy with this combo. However the other night I listened to my Yggdrasil, hooked to my Liquid Glass to drive my ETHER C's, and I was blown how away how much better the overall sound signature was. The detail, and resolution is so natural sounding. I just could not stop listening to this combo. I must had spent over 7 hours jamming out, listening to Zappa, Kate Bush, Mozart, Monk, Zepplin and Tomita. After today's experience, I will hook up my big tv to my Yggdrasil/ Ragnarock and Liquid Glass.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

+1, I see no point in taking the half step of the GMB when Yggy is destined to happen anyway, when funds permit


----------



## joeexp

-1  There is actually less difference in DACs at this price range then one might believe. At least not as big as described here. Don't really understand this obsession with TOTL gear.  
  
 Importance on Sound Quality: Transducer>Amp>DAC


----------



## EinZweiDrei

Theres one who says dont waste money. What do you guys think about that.


----------



## shultzee

einzweidrei said:


> Theres one who says dont waste money. What do you guys think about that.


 

 It depends what you consider wasting is.   I wan't the best sound I can afford.  I disagree with his take on it but to each his own.


----------



## JohnnyCanuck

einzweidrei said:


> Theres one who says dont waste money. What do you guys think about that.


 
  
 I had planned on buying the Yggy.  It was going to be my end-game DAC but when the Cdn dollar tanked it was just too expensive for me.  So, when the Gumby was released I grabbed one.
  
 I don't have any regrets, I love the Gumby.  My digital listening is from CDs and principally to speakers.  Having said all this, though, if the difference in price wasn't an issue for me I would have gone for the Yggy.
  
 Bottom line:  only you can decide what's right for you.


----------



## tjl5709

joeexp said:


> -1  There is actually less difference in DACs at this price range then one might believe. At least not as big as described here. Don't really understand this obsession with TOTL gear.
> 
> Importance on Sound Quality: Transducer>Amp>DAC


 
  
EinZweiDrei

 This is what I used to believe I needed.
  
 I now role this way: Transducer>DAC>Amp
  
 There is no "right" answer.
  
 To further guide you, maybe you should point out the types of stuff you primarily listen too, and what you like to hear out of it.
  
 Most peoples tastes evolve. In my younger days it was all about loud R&R. Better amps made more sense to me then. I'm now more into jazz, and with the new equipment it's become more fun listening to the stuff at medium/low volumes and hearing all the details and different instruments. I'm hearing new things in the music that I've listened to for years.
  
 My move from bifrost uber to gumby was a revolution in seeing what detail was really in the redbooks. I always thought a CD sounded so digital because it was just a poor outdated format that did not have enough data in it to sound like an old analog album. It still is outdated, but there's more info in it if you can extract it. I was just using poor DAC's. Thus, the DAC has become more important. (to me)
  
 I want as much of that detail that I can get. Because of this revelation, I then moved to yggy. It gives more detail and resolution than gumby while still sounding musical.
  
 Good luck in your search. If you end up with either, you will not be disappointed. I guarantee that.


----------



## EinZweiDrei

For me i want a dac that doesnt sound digital. I want the best transparency possible. I'll let the headphones and tubes to do the coloring if i need. I listen to a large range of music. Mainly classical rock jazz electrinic pop and heavily vocally stuff. I just want a more natural and smooth tone to the vocals and instruments and proper dynamics.


----------



## JohnnyCanuck

einzweidrei said:


> For me i want a dac that doesnt sound digital. I want the best transparency possible. I'll let the headphones and tubes to do the coloring if i need. I listen to a large range of music. Mainly classical rock jazz electrinic pop and heavily vocally stuff. I just want a more natural and smooth tone to the vocals and instruments and proper dynamics.


 
  
 Well, I can guarantee that the Gumby will do that for you.  And, from what I've read the Yggy will do it even better.
  
 Your call...


----------



## joeexp

shultzee said:


> It depends what you consider wasting is.   I wan't the best sound I can afford.  I disagree with his take on it but to each his own.


 

 Then why stopping with the Yggy?? MSB does a brilliant little machine called "SELECT DAC" for a misely $89950!


----------



## rnros

"Importance on Sound Quality: Transducer>Amp>DAC"
  
 I don't agree with this. Perhaps it has merit at a lower performance level of components, but even then I would think you should strive to improve the weakest link in the chain.
  
 Can't speak for Yggy vs. the Gumby as I haven't heard the Yggy yet. Given my experience with the Gumby, and the ongoing reviews for the Yggy, I have no doubt I will also purchase the Yggy.
  
 If it's not upstream in the audio chain, it can't be downstream.


----------



## rnros

joeexp said:


> Then why stopping with the Yggy?? MSB does a brilliant little machine called "SELECT DAC" for a misely $89950!


 

 Seriously? The discussion is based on a ~$1000 upgrade and the brilliant performance of both of these Schiit DACs for their price point.


----------



## shultzee

joeexp said:


> shultzee said:
> 
> 
> > It depends what you consider wasting is.   I wan't the best sound I can afford.  I disagree with his take on it but to each his own.
> ...


 

 LOL ,   I said the best sound I can afford.   I personally can't afford $89950. on a dac.   Pretty simple.


----------



## EinZweiDrei

90K dac? Lol get the real actual musician to play for you.


----------



## rnros

einzweidrei said:


> 90K dac? Lol get the real actual musician to play for you.


 

 +1  With money left for the Yggy.


----------



## EinZweiDrei

Im really just wondering which is the better step up. Bitfrost to gungnir mb or gungnir mb to ygg. Alot of times im getting really polarized answers when looking and adking around. People really gotta stop exaggerating the difference when theres little to none, and people who never experienced anything higher than what own or heard should stop acting like experts. It's really frustrating. And then theres the people who can't tell the difference between 20$ sonys and a proper pair of headphone, and they prefer which ever plays louder, they cant even tell their speakers are blown and that they set too much gain on their car subs.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Hey 1-2-3 - you're asking for absolute, consensus answers where only one answer counts: yours :eek:

It really is true that "only you can tell"! Or as often said on head-fi, we all hear differently. Sometimes very differently.

You are right in a lot of what you say above. But for some of us - I'm one - a few extremely small differences _that most might not notice_ can be critical. Why? Because one DAC shows that difference whereas another doesn't. Tiny difference but it's there with one DAC and not there with another - which is actually the largest difference possible!

Hence 'exaggerated', even "night and day" claims 

Exaggerated or not, it only matters if (a) you can hear it (b) you _care_ about it.

And all this is off topic anyway as this is the Mjolnir 2 amplifier thread :eek:


----------



## shultzee

einzweidrei said:


> Im really just wondering which is the better step up. Bitfrost to gungnir mb or gungnir mb to ygg. Alot of times im getting really polarized answers when looking and adking around. People really gotta stop exaggerating the difference when theres little to none, and people who never experienced anything higher than what own or heard should stop acting like experts. It's really frustrating. And then theres the people who can't tell the difference between 20$ sonys and a proper pair of headphone, and they prefer which ever plays louder, they cant even tell their speakers are blown and that they set too much gain on their car subs.


 

  


argo duck said:


> ^ Hey 1-2-3 - you're asking for absolute, consensus answers where only one answer counts: yours
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Said very well


----------



## EinZweiDrei

Guess its decided. Mjolnir 2 + ygg as my next and final step up. Hopefully the difference between a ygg and bitfrost is big enough to justify it's price.


----------



## JohnnyCanuck

einzweidrei said:


> Guess its decided. Mjolnir 2 + ygg as my next and final step up. Hopefully the difference between a ygg and bitfrost is big enough to justify it's price.


 
  
 That sounds like an excellent choice.


----------



## Ormia

einzweidrei said:


> Guess its decided. Mjolnir 2 + ygg as my next and final step up. Hopefully the difference between a ygg and bitfrost is big enough to justify it's price.




Mj2 available on the FS/FT forum at a good price. Grab it before or goes!


----------



## EinZweiDrei

I prefer my stuff new. And also i get that 5year warranty as well as that 15 day return policy if its not to my liking.
one more question, will the yggdrasil be bottle necked by the mjolnir 2?


----------



## Mumbles06

Has anyone considered the Little Dot Mk VI+ prior to buying a Mojo2?  I've searched the board and haven't found any comparisons of the two, but both are tube (Mojo being hybrid) both are the same price point, both offer balanced and SE outputs.  I know Schiit's mission statement is to skimp on cosmetics to keep price down, but subjectively, the little dot looks way better for the price.  This leaves me to think that the Mojo must be way better sonicaly as per Schiit's ethos, but I really can't find any A/B comparision of them. Anybody heard both and decided Mojo2 was the way to go, or are most people just climbing the Schiit ladder?  As a Schiit owner myself, I get it if people are just sticking with a good (maybe excellent) product line and climbing the ladder, but for similar features and price points I gotta wonder...


----------



## mithrandir38

mumbles06 said:


> Has anyone considered the Little Dot Mk VI+ prior to buying a Mojo2?  I've searched the board and haven't found any comparisons of the two, but both are tube (Mojo being hybrid) both are the same price point, both offer balanced and SE outputs.  I know Schiit's mission statement is to skimp on cosmetics to keep price down, but subjectively, the little dot looks way better for the price.  This leaves me to think that the Mojo must be way better sonicaly as per Schiit's ethos, but I really can't find any A/B comparision of them. Anybody heard both and decided Mojo2 was the way to go, or are most people just climbing the Schiit ladder?  As a Schiit owner myself, I get it if people are just sticking with a good (maybe excellent) product line and climbing the ladder, but for similar features and price points I gotta wonder...


 That's pretty typical looking Shenzen casing. Not bad, not great. Your warranty servicing will be a million times easier with schiit, and it sounds fantastic.


----------



## tjl5709

Anybody using the MJ2 with the "new" HD-800S yet?


----------



## DWbirdseye

...


----------



## Mediahound

tjl5709 said:


> Anybody using the MJ2 with the "new" HD-800S yet?


 

 I am. Sounds great! I'm running tubes and balanced.


----------



## Mediahound

Question: Should I be in high or low gain for the HD800 S? It actually sounds great in low gain and my volume is under 12 o'clock that way. Just wondering if I should still do low gain.


----------



## prismstorm

mediahound said:


> Question: Should I be in high or low gain for the HD800 S? It actually sounds great in low gain and my volume is under 12 o'clock that way. Just wondering if I should still to low gain.



Thought in one of your YouTube videos you picked Audeze over the HD800 and sold the latter, did the S version redeem itself enough for you to buy a HD800 again?


----------



## Mediahound

prismstorm said:


> Thought in one of your YouTube videos you picked Audeze over the HD800 and sold the latter, did the S version redeem itself enough for you to buy a HD800 again?


 

 Exactly. The HD800 S is now better than the LCD-3 IMO. I'm actually uploading a review video tonight.


----------



## Mediahound

watchnerd said:


> Just put in some $13.95 (each) current production Electro-Harmonix 6922, swapping out the vintage Amperex Orange Globes.
> 
> The increase in dynamics, headroom, and gain (mu) is so big it makes the vintage tubes seem flaccid in comparison.
> 
> And lower noise, too.


 

 I'm curious about this. How would you describe the sound difference between the Orange Globes and the Electro-Harmonix? I currently run Orange Globes and don't want to get too treble-ey if I switch tubes.


----------



## reddog

einzweidrei said:


> Guess its decided. Mjolnir 2 + ygg as my next and final step up. Hopefully the difference between a ygg and bitfrost is big enough to justify it's price.



The Yggdrasil is phenomenal sounding so transparent and ever revealing. I feel the Yggdrasil sounds a lot better than my Gungnir Multibit. I use my Gungnir Multibit and MJ2, for gaming and tv. The sound quality is good, however it does not compare to my Yggdrasil/ Ragnarock or Liquid Glass combo. If you can afford it, go for the Yggdrasil.


----------



## Doris

@ shultzee or anyone who can help...
  
 i saw that you had the Icon HP 8 MKii and the Woo WA6SE and now have the Mjolnir 2, could you compare how the hd 800 sound with these three amps?


----------



## shultzee

doris said:


> @ shultzee or anyone who can help...
> 
> i saw that you had the Icon HP 8 MKii and the Woo WA6SE and now have the Mjolnir 2, could you compare how the hd 800 sound with these three amps?


 

 I didn't have the HD800 with the Woo Wa6se.  At the time I had a Audeze LCD-x .     I felt both the Icon and Wa6se were very nice amps but just a little too thick sounding.   I really enjoy hearing all the details and I believe the MJ2 with the hd800 provides that.  The MJ2 is a hybrid and just uses tubes on the pre side.  With good tubes I think the MJ2 is a very capable amp with the HD800.


----------



## Mediahound

doris said:


> @ shultzee or anyone who can help...
> 
> i saw that you had the Icon HP 8 MKii and the Woo WA6SE and now have the Mjolnir 2, could you compare how the hd 800 sound with these three amps?


 
  
  


shultzee said:


> I didn't have the HD800 with the Woo Wa6se.  At the time I had a Audeze LCD-x .     I felt both the Icon and Wa6se were very nice amps but just a little too thick sounding.   I really enjoy hearing all the details and I believe the MJ2 with the hd800 provides that.  The MJ2 is a hybrid and just uses tubes on the pre side.  With good tubes I think the MJ2 is a very capable amp with the HD800.


 

 +1
  
 I've got the HD800 S driven by MJ2 with tubes (currently Amperex Orange Globes), balanced, and the sound is sublime. 
  
 Listening to a track like the below, which has a strong bass  going for it, the bass sounds weighty and dynamic, yet the overall presentation is very clear and detailed. Doesn't sound tinny or thin whatsoever.


----------



## odevans

Any tube recommendations for listening through the LCD-X?


----------



## Mediahound

Question: Should I unplug my headphones when turning on/off the MJ2? 
  
 I tried not and do hear a bit of a buzzing /pop in the headphones when doing so.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

reddog said:


> The Yggdrasil is phenomenal sounding so transparent and ever revealing. I feel the Yggdrasil sounds a lot better than my Gungnir Multibit. I use my Gungnir Multibit and MJ2, for gaming and tv. The sound quality is good, however it does not compare to my Yggdrasil/ Ragnarock or Liquid Glass combo. If you can afford it, go for the Yggdrasil.


 

 Is the gap between GMB and Yggy bigger than the gap between Multifrost and GMB?


----------



## Doris

thank you very much for your replies...! probably the MJ2 would be my next amp since i also enjoy hearing the details in music.
  
 now i have to serch for a new dac around the 500-700euro with a good synergy with the MJ2


----------



## reddog

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Is the gap between GMB and Yggy bigger than the gap between Multifrost and GMB?



I have not heard the uber multifrost, thus I do not know the gap between the multifrost and the GMB.


----------



## joeexp

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Is the gap between GMB and Yggy bigger than the gap between Multifrost and GMB?


 

 The gap between Yggy and Gumby is extremely narrow. Even people who know them really well have difficulties to hear which is which with certain music. You can close the gap even further by applying a USB Decrapifier or a good USB/SPDIF converter.
  
 The Gap between Gumby and Mulitbit Bifrost is a lot bigger.


----------



## EinZweiDrei

joeexp said:


> The gap between Yggy and Gumby is extremely narrow. Even people who know them really well have difficulties to hear which is which with certain music. You can close the gap even further by applying a USB Decrapifier or a good USB/SPDIF converter.
> 
> The Gap between Gumby and Mulitbit Bifrost is a lot bigger.



Can you please share your experiences with those dacs?


----------



## serman005

einzweidrei said:


> Can you please share your experiences with those dacs?


 

 +1--please do.


----------



## Mediahound

mediahound said:


> Question: Should I unplug my headphones when turning on/off the MJ2?
> 
> I tried not and do hear a bit of a buzzing /pop in the headphones when doing so.




Anyone know the answer to this?


----------



## EinZweiDrei

mediahound said:


> Anyone know the answer to this?



I don't the best method to start up a listening session, but this is my ritual for all ss or tubes,
Make sure all sounds are off.
Turn on dac.
Turn on amp.
Wait for a minute or so if tube amp.
Plug headphones.
Adjust volume knob on amp.
Play music.
And after listening session is over.
Turn off all sounds.
Turn amp volume knob all the way down.
Unplug headphones.
Turn off amp.
Turn off dac.


----------



## Mediahound

einzweidrei said:


> I don't the best method to start up a listening session, but this is my ritual for all ss or tubes,
> Make sure all sounds are off.
> Turn on dac.
> Turn on amp.
> ...


 

 Thanks. 
  
 I've been leaving the headphones plugged in. I guess it's probably safer to unplug them.


----------



## claud W

einzweidrei said:


> I don't the best method to start up a listening session, but this is my ritual for all ss or tubes,
> Make sure all sounds are off.
> Turn on dac.
> Turn on amp.
> ...


 

 Since this is a Schiit thread, I assume that you have a Schiit DAC. NEVER turn your Schiit DAC off. According to Mike M. the designer, all of the Schiit DACS need to be left on 24/7. Like you, I did not know this until recently, but I can say that my Bifrost Uber sounds MUCH better having been left on since the year began.


----------



## EinZweiDrei

claud w said:


> Since this is a Schiit thread, I assume that you have a Schiit DAC. NEVER turn your Schiit DAC off. According to Mike M. the designer, all of the Schiit DACS need to be left on 24/7. Like you, I did not know this until recently, but I can say that my Bifrost Uber sounds MUCH better having been left on since the year began.


i didnt know this until now. Thanks for the info.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

joeexp said:


> The gap between Yggy and Gumby is extremely narrow. Even people who know them really well have difficulties to hear which is which with certain music. You can close the gap even further by applying a USB Decrapifier or a good USB/SPDIF converter.
> 
> The Gap between Gumby and Mulitbit Bifrost is a lot bigger.


 

 I suppose that would make upgrading the dac a shorter-term proposition.


----------



## joeexp

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I suppose that would make upgrading the dac a shorter-term proposition.


 

 The Bimby is a fantastic DAC for the money - it is for you to say when to stop…..


----------



## Currawong

claud w said:


> Since this is a Schiit thread, I assume that you have a Schiit DAC. NEVER turn your Schiit DAC off. According to Mike M. the designer, all of the Schiit DACS need to be left on 24/7. Like you, I did not know this until recently, but I can say that my Bifrost Uber sounds MUCH better having been left on since the year began.


 
  
 Correction -- he said he doesn't switch his system off. You don't _need_ to leave your gear on at all. However in my experience my Yggy sounds more resolving if it is left on.


----------



## claud W

currawong said:


> Correction -- he said he doesn't switch his system off. You don't _need_ to leave your gear on at all. However in my experience my Yggy sounds more resolving if it is left on.


 

 You must not have any Schiit DACs.  If you read what he said in the Yuggy thread or his blog, he might leave all his system on, but he said to never cut off your Schiit DAC


----------



## Currawong

Spoiler: OT about leaving the Yggy on.






claud w said:


> currawong said:
> 
> 
> > Correction -- he said he doesn't switch his system off. You don't _need_ to leave your gear on at all. However in my experience my Yggy sounds more resolving if it is left on.
> ...


 

 Please re-read what you quoted. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


baldr said:


> I have never, but never, been exposed to any solid state D/A converter that did not benefit from leaving it on 24/7.  Period.  Either designed by me or anyone else.  Ever.  What is true is that delta sigma D/A converters seem to be less pronounced in those effects than multibit converters, they still benefit.
> 
> Another aside:  the Theta D/A converters I built twenty to thirty-ish years ago seem to have less of this difference today.  I do not know why.  I only design(ed) them.


----------



## claud W

currawong said:


> Spoiler: OT about leaving the Yggy on.
> 
> 
> 
> Please re-read what you quoted.


 

 So, Baldr/ Mike M. said exactly what I said he said. Do Not cut off your Schiit DAC.


----------



## Mediahound

claud w said:


> So, Baldr/ Mike M. said exactly what I said he said. Do Not cut off your Schiit DAC.


 

 He never said "Do Not cut off your Schiit DAC". He said they benefit from it. In other words, recommedation vs. requirement.


----------



## Currawong

More on topic, I'm scratching my head about getting a Mjolnir 2 as a pre-amp and sometimes as a balanced headphone amp, which was why I joined this thread in the first place. Since I've now got a small collection of 6922 tubes for the Vali 2, I'm thinking it might fit the bill.


----------



## claud W

currawong said:


> More on topic, I'm scratching my head about getting a Mjolnir 2 as a pre-amp and sometimes as a balanced headphone amp, which was why I joined this thread in the first place. Since I've now got a small collection of 6922 tubes for the Vali 2, I'm thinking it might fit the bill.


 

 I hope you have some pairs, hopefully matched. If so, i think you will find its the best bang for your buck to go with your Yggy. At least you have yours. I have been waiting since February 11 for mine.


----------



## Mediahound

I'm interested in getting a plexiglass box cover to put over the tubes and vent area when not in use (dust cover). Anyone found something like this?


----------



## rmoody

mediahound said:


> I'm interested in getting a plexiglass box cover to put over the tubes and vent area when not in use (dust cover). Anyone found something like this?


 
 http://smile.amazon.com/Rubbermaid-Storage-Container-BPA-Free-Plastic/dp/B000WEMFGQ/ref=sr_1_4?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1457977699&sr=8-4&keywords=rubbermaid+bowl


----------



## Mediahound

rmoody said:


> http://smile.amazon.com/Rubbermaid-Storage-Container-BPA-Free-Plastic/dp/B000WEMFGQ/ref=sr_1_4?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1457977699&sr=8-4&keywords=rubbermaid+bowl


 

 I was thinking more of a display quality (clear) type of thing.


----------



## rmoody

mediahound said:


> I was thinking more of a display quality (clear) type of thing.


 

 Glass bowl?
  
 What you would really want it to find someplace to build you a box to your dimensions from acrylic. Maybe a glass shop or even a sheet metal shop (we always had sheets of acrylic at the sheet metal shop I worked out for making enclosures for industrial devices).


----------



## mhamel

currawong said:


> More on topic, I'm scratching my head about getting a Mjolnir 2 as a pre-amp and sometimes as a balanced headphone amp, which was why I joined this thread in the first place. Since I've now got a small collection of 6922 tubes for the Vali 2, I'm thinking it might fit the bill.


 
  
  
 This is exactly how I'm using mine. Primarily as a balanced pre for listening through speakers, with occasional headphone use, Yggy as my DAC. It sounds great. I had a large collection of tubes for my Lyr, so it was kind of a no-brainer when I saw the MJ2 come out. I do wish it had a bit more heater current capacity so that I could use as wide a range of tubes as I could with the original Lyr, but that's a pretty minor thing.


----------



## ToddRaymond

mhamel said:


> This is exactly how I'm using mine. Primarily as a balanced pre for listening through speakers, with occasional headphone use, Yggy as my DAC. It sounds great. I had a large collection of tubes for my Lyr, so it was kind of a no-brainer when I saw the MJ2 come out. I do wish it had a bit more heater current capacity so that I could use as wide a range of tubes as I could with the original Lyr, but that's a pretty minor thing.




Right on. I had used the original Mjolnir as a pre for a bit, and was mightily impressed. I can only imagine that the addition of tubes may give my two channel speaker system just the little bit of extra magic it could benefit from. What were you previously using as a pre in its place? How does it compare? I plan to pick up a Mjolnir 2 as soon as I can afford it, to use in place of my Asgard 2, but it won't be feasible to use as a headphone amp as well as a pre, due to how far away my desk is from my two channel system, yadda. A remote would be nice too. Looking forward to when they release their [redacted].


----------



## mhamel

turdski said:


> Right on. I had used the original Mjolnir as a pre for a bit, and was mightily impressed. I can only imagine that the addition of tubes may give my two channel speaker system just the little bit of extra magic it could benefit from. What were you previously using as a pre in its place? How does it compare? I plan to pick up a Mjolnir 2 as soon as I can afford it, to use in place of my Asgard 2, but it won't be feasible to use as a headphone amp as well as a pre, due to how far away my desk is from my two channel system, yadda. A remote would be nice too. Looking forward to when they release their [redacted].


 
  
 When I picked up the M2, I got it with the LISST option, and my personal preference is definitely for tubes. The LISST don't sound bad at all, they just aren't my preference.
  
 Originally I was running a BAT VK-5i, but this is a system that is on at least 10 hours a day and at least 5 days a week. The BAT is an amazing sounding pre, but it uses 8 x 6922 + 2 x 5881. Not only is it a furnace, it's damn expensive to re-tube. I wanted to find something I could use for more everyday listening, balanced was a requirement, and of course great sound. I picked up an Emotiva XSP-1. It's a great SS pre, but I missed the tubes. So, when Schiit released the M2 I jumped at it immediately.
  
 To be honest, I do prefer the sound of the BAT over the M2, but the differences are subtle. Some may prefer the M2. My opinion is also only based on the tubes I have run/heard. That said, I think the M2 sounds fantastic. If I'm going to sit back and just listen to music, I'll switch over to the BAT, but otherwise I run the M2 every day. I'm using a pair of 1960 Mullard E88CCs that I've found to complement my speakers very well, which tend to be on the brighter side (Magnepan Mini Maggies). In my setup it also doubles as a headphone amp and I like that it gives me the option to run balanced or SE cans.
  
 The current config is PC->Wyrd->Yggy-BAT VK5i, then the line out (which is a simple pass-through) from the BAT to the balanced inputs on the M2. The outputs of the BAT and M2 go through a passive balanced switch, then to an active crossover. Mids/highs to the Maggies and lows to a Velodyne FSR-18. Simple to switch between them when I want to, and I don't hear any degradation in sound through the switch vs direct.
  
 The SE input of the M2 gives me convenient listening option, too. The room where I have it set up is a home office / computer room / workroom for DIY projects. I also have a TV in here. I have the TV audio going to a pro rack mixer along with one of the SE outputs from the Yggy. The output of the mixer feeds the SE inputs on the M2. This way if I want to watch TV while I'm working, I can switch over to SE and listen through the same speakers without losing computer audio, then back to balanced for just music.
  
    -Mike
  
  
  
  
  
  
 .


----------



## rmoody

mhamel said:


> When I picked up the M2, I got it with the LISST option, and my personal preference is definitely for tubes. The LISST don't sound bad at all, they just aren't my preference.
> 
> Originally I was running a BAT VK-5i, but this is a system that is on at least 10 hours a day and at least 5 days a week. The BAT is an amazing sounding pre, but it uses 8 x 6922 + 2 x 5881. Not only is it a furnace, it's damn expensive to re-tube. I wanted to find something I could use for more everyday listening, balanced was a requirement, and of course great sound. I picked up an Emotiva XSP-1. It's a great SS pre, but I missed the tubes. So, when Schiit released the M2 I jumped at it immediately.
> 
> ...


 
  
 What passive balanced switch are you using? Sounds like something I need.


----------



## mhamel

rmoody said:


> What passive balanced switch are you using? Sounds like something I need.


 
  
  
 It's a Kramer VS-4X.  Not much to look at but it's high quality and (to my ears at least) completely transparent.


----------



## Mediahound

What do you think? Is this not good, or is okay (the headphone stand on the MJ2):


----------



## Hifi59

mediahound said:


> What do you think? Is this not good, or is okay (the headphone stand on the MJ2):




This would look better


----------



## Hifi59

false


----------



## Pete Schiller

I have a couple questions about the Mjolnir 2. I’ve done searches and read through all 70 pages of this thread, but didn’t find these two things explained. 
  
 1) On the Schiit website, with regards to the Mjolnir 2, it says:
_“Q: Do the single-ended outputs put out as much power as the balanced outputs?
  A: No. They’re limited to about 2W into 32 ohms. Which is still plenty for most headphones.”_
 That’s vs. a maximum of 8W into 32 ohms in balanced mode. Is that 4x difference in power output linear across a range of impedance for various headphones? If not, roughly what would it be at 300 ohms if using the SE output? 
  
 2) If I’m using a turntable as my source, input through the SE jacks, am I getting reduced maximum output, even if I’ve upgraded my headphone cables to balanced? In other words, does everything in the chain from the source to the headphones need to have balanced connections in order to not see a reduction in output power from the Mjolnir?
  
 I’m trying to decide between the Valhalla 2, Lyr 2 and the Mjolnir 2. I’m just getting back into this world of audio after about 30 years. I just got a Pro-ject Debut Carbon DC turntable with 2M Red cartridge delivered today and I have a pair of Sennheiser HD-600s on the way. Digital content will come from iTunes on my MacBook Pro Retina. Someday I’ll get a DAC, although I’ve read that my Mac’s DAC is quite good, for a computer.
  
 The Valhalla 2 sounds ideally suited to pair with the HD-600s, but far from ideal if I want to try out some low impedance HPs in the future. The Lyr 2 solves the problem with low impedance HPs, but I don’t see as many people raving about how it pairs with the HP-600s. The Mjolnir 2 would be an end game amp for me, offering the ability to run balanced in addition to great sound and more than adequate power for any HPs I’m likely to try. If I did get the Mjolnir 2, I’d probably end up getting the Gungnir MB before long, which pushes my budget into a completely different range compared to getting a Valhalla or Lyr and letting my Mac handle the DAC work. Thoughts? I know, only I can say how I want to spend my money.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

GMB/MJ2 stack is probably where you're heading, so I'd save the money by going straight there. I'm holding off till I can afford the Yggy, but otherwise I'd sell the Bifrost and get the GMB now.


----------



## rnros

> The Valhalla 2 sounds ideally suited to pair with the HD-600s, but far from ideal if I want to try out some low impedance HPs in the future. The Lyr 2 solves the problem with low impedance HPs, but I don’t see as many people raving about how it pairs with the HP-600s. The Mjolnir 2 would be an end game amp for me, offering the ability to run balanced in addition to great sound and more than adequate power for any HPs I’m likely to try. If I did get the Mjolnir 2, I’d probably end up getting the Gungnir MB before long, which pushes my budget into a completely different range compared to getting a Valhalla or Lyr and letting my Mac handle the DAC work. Thoughts? I know, only I can say how I want to spend my money.


 
 Tough choice, but no wrong answer. So here is my perspective after spending time with all three. Only one opinion though...
  
 Valhalla2 - Great amp and even better value. Up and running immediately, just have to get through some burn time. Yes, really fine with the HD600s you have. But I also use it with the K7XX (62 Ohms) on low gain. I do sometimes use a 70 Ohm cable adapter (old Etymotic). Same with IEMs. I have no issues with noise.
 Haven't heard vinyl through this amp, but it sounds like a great idea. If you're going to do SE most of the time, or for a while before going balanced, I highly recommend this amp for SQ at minimal investment.
  
 2nd Purchase: When you go digital, go directly to GungnirMB!   Assuming you're going with lossless CD res or higher. IMHO, with digital, this is the next major upgrade in the chain, before additional amps, HPs, anything else. Would not be without the GMB, unless I had Yggy.
  
 Mjolnir2: Reason for going with this amp is balanced HPs. SE is very good, but to me it does not replace the VAHL2, they are different. Comparing MJ2 and Lyr2 in SE, MJ2 is a little quieter, Lyr2 is more powerful.
  
 Have all three, Love all three. If I had to pick two, it would be the MJ2 and VHL2. If I had to pick one... not sure.


----------



## Pete Schiller

rnros said:


> Tough choice, but no wrong answer. So here is my perspective after spending time with all three. Only one opinion though...
> 
> Valhalla2 - Great amp and even better value. Up and running immediately, just have to get through some burn time. Yes, really fine with the HD600s you have. But I also use it with the K7XX (62 Ohms) on low gain. I do sometimes use a 70 Ohm cable adapter (old Etymotic). Same with IEMs. I have no issues with noise.
> Haven't heard vinyl through this amp, but it sounds like a great idea. If you're going to do SE most of the time, or for a while before going balanced, I highly recommend this amp for SQ at minimal investment.
> ...


 

 Thanks! Those were pretty much the conclusions that I had come too after all of the reading that I've done, although I haven't seen or listened to any of that Schiit in person. As far as amps are concerned, I don't think that the Lyr 2 was ever in the running. I have read lots of extremely positive things about the Bifrost MB, although most people seem to agree that the improvements are noticeable as you move to the Gungnir MB and then the Yggy.


----------



## rnros

Yes, a lot of positive feedback on the Bifrost MB. Came very close to buying one when it was released, intended for a second setup in the house. In the end, I decided to save the money and wait until I can do the Ygg, which I've wanted to try ever since I heard the GunMB.
 The Lyr would be the choice if you were using SE low-efficiency planar magnetics.


----------



## rkrug20

Does this happen to anyone? What's going on? I keep the Yggy Bel Canto 600Ms on all the time. The Yggy and amps are hooked up with XLR cables. The gain is on low.


----------



## JohnnyCanuck

Well, it's sure not supposed to do that!  Have you tried to narrow down the culprit?


----------



## rkrug20

It occurs after a click is heard in the Mjolnir and then stops after 15-20 seconds like is shown in the video. I'm sure turning on the amps after about a minute will prevent the issue but now I'm curious what it is. Since it's pulling and pushing the speaker drivers, it seems like the polarity is flipping and causing the sound.


----------



## JohnnyCanuck

You're going to have to isolate which component is actually causing the problem.  Unplug all inputs from the Mjolnir and connect something completely different.  If the problem continues then the problem will be with the Mjolnir.  If it doesn't occur at this point then it's with one of your source components.  Swap them out until you find the culprit.


----------



## rkrug20

I turned off the Mjolinr 2, unplugged the only source hooked up (Yggy), and it did the same thing.


----------



## cskippy

That is scary!  I would definitely contact Schiit support.


----------



## JohnnyCanuck

Then it would appear that you have a problem with the Mjolinr 2.  Do you have a different set of tubes to swap in?  That's about the only user-servicable part available for you to test.
  
 If your tubes prove to be ok then it's time to contact Schiit (if they're not already monitoring this thread).
  
 edit:  If your tubes are still within the warranty period just contact Schiit and arrange for its return and repair.


----------



## reddog

mediahound said:


> What do you think? Is this not good, or is okay (the headphone stand on the MJ2):



Just be careful, I would hate to see the headphone stand slide, somehow and hit your precious tubes. I had a cat who almost moved the headphone stand on my MJ2, I saw the mistiff, and stopped a possible accident.


----------



## EinZweiDrei

With my current headphones in the mid teir. Which is a better step up.
Mjolnor2 + gungnir mb + lcd2
or 
Mjolnir2 + yggdrasil.

My current headphones are hd600 hd650 k701 k7xx 400i thx00.


----------



## cskippy

IMO, I wouldn't bother with the LCD2.  The Yggy is a world class DAC and will let the rest of your gear shine no matter what you get or change down the line.  I wish I would have sprung for e Yggy instead of the Gumby, although most people say they are really close especially with Wyrd in the chain.


----------



## tjl5709

cskippy said:


> IMO, I wouldn't bother with the LCD2.  The Yggy is a world class DAC and will let the rest of your gear shine no matter what you get or change down the line.  I wish I would have sprung for e Yggy instead of the Gumby, although most people say they are really close especially with Wyrd in the chain.


 
  
 I agree. Just get the Yggy. Yes the Gumby is close, but looking at your inventory, you are driving towards top end gear. With yggy, your essentially done for quite some time. And with Schiit standing behind their DAC's by providing upgrades, it can only get better. I cannot speak to the other can's, but your HD-650's will scale well (I have them) while you save for a top line can. Go to amazon and get a balanced cord for them when you get the MJ2. They will sing really, really well.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'm in the odd place of having just sprung for MJ2, and then having gotten the most power hungry can on the planet, possibly excepting the K1000...which is next on my list 
  
 For cans that it can power, though (HD800, for instance) it's an end-game amplifier, no question, and I'll be getting Yggy...soon.


----------



## EinZweiDrei

tjl5709 said:


> I agree. Just get the Yggy. Yes the Gumby is close, but looking at your inventory, you are driving towards top end gear. With yggy, your essentially done for quite some time. And with Schiit standing behind their DAC's by providing upgrades, it can only get better. I cannot speak to the other can's, but your HD-650's will scale well (I have them) while you save for a top line can. Go to amazon and get a balanced cord for them when you get the MJ2. They will sing really, really well.



Someone else told me that the ygg is overkill for my current headphones, according to him the lcd2 mjol2 and gungnir mb is better.i just want something that ill never have to upgrade again and end my headphone journey. So im sort of stuck between the options.


----------



## cskippy

It all comes down to what headphones sound best to you.  If your happy with the HD650 it will scale very well with a ToTL tube amp and a great dac.  LCD 2 is a great headphone but some feel that the fazor kills some of it's strengths compared to the prefazor version.  I've settled with HE-6 and HD650 for my primary two cans with the TH-X00 thrown in for "Dat Bass".  IMO, you won't go wrong with any of the Multibit dacs from Schiit.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

HE-6 lacks Dat Bass?


----------



## cskippy

Compared to TH-X00?  Oh yeah.  TH-X00 is like a movie theater experience.  HE-6 is high end Studio monitors.  You're never going to get the sub bass of a closed back dynamic tuned for "tasteful" bass in an open back planar headphone.


----------



## Currawong

einzweidrei said:


> Someone else told me that the ygg is overkill for my current headphones, according to him the lcd2 mjol2 and gungnir mb is better.i just want something that ill never have to upgrade again and end my headphone journey. So im sort of stuck between the options.


 
  
 Same as we told you before: Yes, it's overkill, but if you plan on getting, say, HD800s in the future, get the Yggy.


----------



## EinZweiDrei

currawong said:


> Same as we told you before: Yes, it's overkill, but if you plan on getting, say, HD800s in the future, get the Yggy.


looks like gungnir mb might be a safer choice. The difference between gungnir mb and yggy shouldn't be too much when i run lets say an lcd2 or he560 out of the mjolnir2 right?


----------



## Currawong

einzweidrei said:


> currawong said:
> 
> 
> > Same as we told you before: Yes, it's overkill, but if you plan on getting, say, HD800s in the future, get the Yggy.
> ...


 

 Choose something and be happy with the choice -- whatever you get you're getting a good DAC.


----------



## EinZweiDrei

currawong said:


> Choose something and be happy with the choice -- whatever you get you're getting a good DAC.


yea but this is headfi. Anything here with some spotlight is considered good. We all want the best bang for the buck.


----------



## rnros

einzweidrei said:


> Someone else told me that the ygg is overkill for my current headphones, according to him the lcd2 mjol2 and gungnir mb is better.i just want something that ill never have to upgrade again and end my headphone journey. So im sort of stuck between the options.


 
 If you don't want to upgrade again, get the Yggy. But, of course, you will upgrade again, things keep moving forward. Really sounds like you want the Yggy. And then there's the Ragy...
 More importantly, for only $1050, you will not have to suffer the nagging doubt that maybe you should have gotten the Yggy!


----------



## EinZweiDrei

rnros said:


> If you don't want to upgrade again, get the Yggy. But, of course, you will upgrade again, things keep moving forward. Really sounds like you want the Yggy. And then there's the Ragy...
> More importantly, for only $1050, you will not have to suffer the nagging doubt that maybe you should have gotten the Yggy!


and if i get the yggy i might regret it and thought to myself that i could have gotten the gungnir mb and that extra money could get me another headphone.


----------



## reddog

einzweidrei said:


> and if i get the yggy i might regret it and thought to myself that i could have gotten the gungnir mb and that extra money could get me another headphone.



You would never regret investing in the mighty Yggdrasil. The Yggdrasil, after its 175 hour burn in, makes the music sound so fantastic, I just have a hard time walking away from the sonic bliss/ heroin of the Yggdrasil and the Liquid Glass or the Ragnarock. I really like my Multibit Gungnir and Mjolnir 2, but that combo is out performed by the Yggdrasil/ Ragnarock. Please have a great day jamming out.


----------



## mhamel

einzweidrei said:


> and if i get the yggy i might regret it and thought to myself that i could have gotten the gungnir mb and that extra money could get me another headphone.


 
  
 Personally, if it was my decision - I would go for the Yggy and enjoy knowing I was feeding my current headphones the best signal I could, and knowing that down the line if/when I decided to step up the headphones, I already have the upstream gear in place for them.
  
 Again, though, just my own personal $0.02.
  
 It seems like you want someone to give you the answer, but then you're countering every response. At the end of the day, the decision is something only you can provide.
  
 They're both great DACs. They'll both deliver excellent sound quality. Either would be a good choice. Pick one, don't look back, and enjoy the music. The more time you spend looking for an answer here, the less time you have to listen to the great sound either DAC will provide.


----------



## rnros

einzweidrei said:


> and if i get the yggy i might regret it and thought to myself that i could have gotten the gungnir mb and that extra money could get me another headphone.


 
 Well, I have to agree with you. The $1050 can buy you more exploration. Sounds like a HD800S or planar magnetic. Plus you get balanced with the MJ2. That's a lot of new steps to explore and digest.
 Plus, you still have the tube thing to do.


----------



## EinZweiDrei

mhamel said:


> Personally, if it was my decision - I would go for the Yggy and enjoy knowing I was feeding my current headphones the best signal I could, and knowing that down the line if/when I decided to step up the headphones, I already have the upstream gear in place for them.
> 
> Again, though, just my own personal $0.02.
> 
> ...


im really trying to find out which is the better purchase. I have one side telling to jump on the yggy and the other saying your current headphones aren't enough for a yggy. Is the yggy really that much of an improvement over the gungnir mb to justify that price.


----------



## shultzee

If anyone is looking for a MJ2 with some awesome tubes I just listed one for sale in the for sale forums.


----------



## mhamel

einzweidrei said:


> im really trying to find out which is the better purchase. I have one side telling to jump on the yggy and the other saying your current headphones aren't enough for a yggy. Is the yggy really that much of an improvement over the gungnir mb to justify that price.


 
  
 That's what I'm saying - all you're going to get here are opinions. You have to determine what the best purchase is for you. Getting caught up in the onslaught of opinions can make it more confusing, because we can all only speak to what works for each of us. Whether or not the extra money is justifiable for the Yggy over the Gungnir MB is worth it to some, to others it isn't. There is no right or wrong answer.
  
 However, this is way off topic as it's the Mjolnir 2 thread - I'll send you a PM.
  
    -Mike


----------



## Hifi59

IMO, the mj2 and the LCD line are only an ok match. The Burson Soloist really brings the Lcds to life. More potent and controlled bass and more sparkle in the high end for an exciting listen day in and day out!


----------



## Argo Duck

^ An ok match with which tubes? Always a key question with (rollable) tube amps alas...


----------



## joeexp

hifi59 said:


> "The Burson Soloist really brings the Lcds to life. … "


 
  
 Really? Are you sure -  The Burson Soloists I heard just sounded underpowered, soft and too polite. MHO.
 Troublesome  treble distortions, problem attenuators, etc  …..
  
 Looks good - sounds not so great ..


----------



## Mediahound

joeexp said:


> Really? Are you sure -  The Burson Soloists I heard just sounded underpowered, soft and too polite. MHO.


 

 +1 
  
 I had the Burson Conductor with the LCD-3's and switched to the MJ2. The sound became more alive for sure.


----------



## Hifi59

joeexp said:


> Really? Are you sure -  The Burson Soloists I heard just sounded underpowered, soft and too polite. MHO.
> Troublesome  treble distortions, problem attenuators, etc  …..
> 
> Looks good - sounds not so great ..




After owning the Soloist for a year, I bought the mj2 with reflector '74 & '75 tubes along with the stock ones. 
My first impression was that something is missing. I listened nightly for over two weeks. I decided to reconnect my Soloist and bam! Bass was more authoritive and controlled. That high end sparkle (not bright) that gives music excitement was back! It was very clear to me that the Soloist was a much better match for the LCD line. 
The mj2 may have been a bit more holographic but that's about it. I tried. I truly wanted to like and keep the mj2 but the soloist was that much better. I sold the mj2 
At meets I've been to, I've never heard anyone call it's sound soft and polite.That's The descriptor of the mj2 IMO.. I believe most reviewers also confirm the LCD/ Burson synergy. The Soloist can drive the new LCD-4 with no problem. The other lcds are much easier to drive than those.

 Was it the soloist or soloist SL you heard? I can only speak for the Soloist:/ Conductor . I have preordered the new v2 Burson with twice the power. That's how much I love how they sound with Audeze and my Hifiman HE-1k.


----------



## Mediahound

hifi59 said:


> After owning the Soloist for a year, I bought the mj2 with reflector '74 & '75 tubes along with the stock ones.
> My first impression was that something is missing. I listened nightly for over two weeks. I decided to reconnect my soloist and bam! Bass was more authorities and controlled. That high end sparkle (not bright) that guves music excitement was back! It was very clear to me that the Soloist was a much better match for the LCD line.
> The nj2 may have been a bit more holographic but that's about it. I tried. I truly wanted to like and keep the mj2 but the soloist was that much better. I sold the mj2 At meets I've been to, I've never heard anyone call it's sound soft and polite that's exactly what the mj2 was. I believe most reviewers also confirm the LCD/ Burson synergy. The soloist can drive the new LCD-4 with no problem. The other lcds are much easier to drive than those. Was it the soloist or soloist SL you heard? I can only speak for the soloist:/ conductor . I have preordered the new v2 Burson with twice the power. That's how much I love how they sound with Audeze and my Hifiman he-1k.




It was the tubes, you should have used the LISST's. Tubes are rarely as dynamic as solid state in terms of low end impact especially and at the extreme treble end too. Also those tubes you tried are known for being more crisp than weighty. 

Also, did you run the MJ2 balanced? That's really the way to go for maximum power and dynamics to the headphones as well as a higher quality overall. The Burson cannot even do balanced.


----------



## Hifi59

I heard the lssts. They were indeed more solid state sounding but a little too
 course and grainy in the high end compared to the Burson. . Bass still wasn't as 
defined and authoritive but were a step closer.i will admit.

Yes, I was running balanced. I did try se but it was terrible on the mj2. 
Having said that, a balanced amp is not necessarily superior to an unbalanced one 
Many great amp designers have chosen to go Se . Audezes latest and greatest The King 
comes in at $4k and is designed by Bascom King and is an SE amp along with others. Bryston and Hifiman top amps are also SE but do provide an Xlr output for convenience sake only. It's like a car 
with rear wheel drive(Bmw) vs those with front wheel. Both can be executed superbly. 
The only thing that is likely true here is that if both balanced and se are provided on a given amp,
the balanced will usually sound better and will provide more output power.


----------



## Hifi59

argo duck said:


> ^ An ok match with which tubes? Always a key question with (rollable) tube amps alas...



I used the stock ones, Reflktor '74 and '75 and orange globes.


----------



## Argo Duck

Cheers! A fair selection of tubes. Sounds like the Burson matches great for you with the LCD2 and 4 (and HE 1K!) 



hifi59 said:


> I used the stock ones, Reflktor '74 and '75 and orange globes.


----------



## Magick Man

I love these, I have both the original and the second release, but seriously guys, do you think you could have used some LEDs for the front panel that *aren't *as bright as a flashlight?  In a dim room they're incredibly annoying, they're like a nightlights.


----------



## jcn3

i have a question about the gain switch on the front of the mj2.  does this switch effect the pre-outs or is it just for the headphone jacks?
  
 thanks!


----------



## Mediahound

jcn3 said:


> i have a question about the gain switch on the front of the mj2.  does this switch effect the pre-outs or is it just for the headphone jacks?
> 
> thanks!


 

 Both.


----------



## Ttenu

I'd like to contribute a MJ2 finding of mine.
  
 Using a set of 4 "Big Tall Tenderfoot" isolation feet, I have lowered the chassis and volume knob temperature of my MJ2.
  
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/compfeet.htm
  
 My probably-correct guess is that the larger space underneath the MJ2 allows additional surface area to be cooled by the air. Previous to using these feet, the volume knob would get so hot that I would only touch it for a moment before it would become painful. Now, I can hold it normally for as long as I want.
  
 Touching the bottom of the chassis on my "lifted" MJ2, it is far hotter than the top. Giving the underside some air helps keep the overall temperature down, it seems.
  
 I think the unit sounds better, too, but that could just be my imagination.


----------



## Mediahound

ttenu said:


> I'd like to contribute a MJ2 finding of mine.
> 
> Using a set of 4 "Big Tall Tenderfoot" isolation feet, I have lowered the chassis and volume knob temperature of my MJ2.
> 
> ...


 

 Socket savers also help quite a bit by lifting the tubes out of the chassis more.


----------



## tvnosaint

Still no reviews up for the mj2. I've noted a few ppl have moved on. I'm looking for a balanced amp and the thought of using my lyr tube collection makes the mj2 appealing. How does it compare to other balanced amps and the lyr? I've read through 20 pgs with few actual impressions or comparisons


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

tvnosaint said:


> Still no reviews up for the mj2. I've noted a few ppl have moved on. I'm looking for a balanced amp and the thought of using my lyr tube collection makes the mj2 appealing. How does it compare to other balanced amps and the lyr? I've read through 20 pgs with few actual impressions or comparisons


 

 You've inspired me. I'll write a review this week.


----------



## tjl5709

tvnosaint said:


> Still no reviews up for the mj2. I've noted a few ppl have moved on. I'm looking for a balanced amp and the thought of using my lyr tube collection makes the mj2 appealing. How does it compare to other balanced amps and the lyr? I've read through 20 pgs with few actual impressions or comparisons


 

 I moved to the MJ2 for the reason you noted. Allowed me to use my Lyr's tubes. It's excellent. Keep in mind, the MJ2 SE output is weaker than the Lyr. The balanced output is were you get all it's power. Paired with Gumby, it's an very musical combination.


----------



## maximal112

Hi all
  
 I've had my current set-up for a little while now, Stax SR L500/SRM 353x and a Chord Mojo, and aside from a few issues with the Mojo at the start everything has been going well. In saying that though, I'm not 100% happy with the current sound, I'm finding the Stax to be a bit bright at times and lacking bass which I know can come with electrostats but I enjoyed the sound when I was auditioning them. Lesson learned though, take your own music and listen to something you're familiar with. 
  
 Anyway, reason I am here is I am looking at changing my setup to either Gumby or Yggy which is still up for debate. I keep thinking Gumby is the more logical choice and can use the money I save to buy the Mjolnir, but then I just think Yggy and back to square one. Given the reason I'm posting in this thread, of course looking at MJ2 to go with it and was hoping anyone here might have some experience with ETHER/ETHER C and how they would pair. I listen to a lot of EDM, contemporary, RnB, Pop, can't say no to some Michael Jackson or Mariah Carey.
  
 Should be travelling interstate next weekend and will hopefully have the chance to audition everything then as nothing local carries any of these products just hoping to get some impressions beforehand, and If anyone knows how does the MJ2 compare to something like the Cavalli Liquid Carbon which I've heard pairs nicely with the ETHER. 
  
 Thank you for any help
  
 Maxi


----------



## cskippy

What headphones are you looking at?  I am using a Gumby with Liquid Carbon and while the Gumby is great, it's brighter than my previous DAC like most Schiit components tend to be.  Of course the great thing about the MJ2 is that you can roll a ton of tubes to suit your sonic preferences.  
  
 BTW, I am still looking for a Mjolnir 2 if anyone wants to sell theirs.


----------



## rmoody

I currently have a Gungnir (non-multibit yet) and Mjolnir 2 with Ether C and love the combo. The Ether C loves some tube in the chain. I think you would love the combo.


----------



## shultzee

maximal112 said:


> Hi all
> 
> I've had my current set-up for a little while now, Stax SR L500/SRM 353x and a Chord Mojo, and aside from a few issues with the Mojo at the start everything has been going well. In saying that though, I'm not 100% happy with the current sound, I'm finding the Stax to be a bit bright at times and lacking bass which I know can come with electrostats but I enjoyed the sound when I was auditioning them. Lesson learned though, take your own music and listen to something you're familiar with.
> 
> ...


 

 I had both the LC and MJ2.  At 599.00  I could definitely recommend  the LC.   At 799 for the LC and 849.00 for the MJ2 I would go with the MJ2   .   It is a great sounding and fairly powerful amp that can drive most headphones. Imho its imperative to get a decent pair of tubes though with the MJ2.


----------



## tjl5709

maximal112 said:


> Hi all
> 
> I've had my current set-up for a little while now, Stax SR L500/SRM 353x and a Chord Mojo, and aside from a few issues with the Mojo at the start everything has been going well. In saying that though, I'm not 100% happy with the current sound, I'm finding the Stax to be a bit bright at times and lacking bass which I know can come with electrostats but I enjoyed the sound when I was auditioning them. Lesson learned though, take your own music and listen to something you're familiar with.
> 
> ...


 
 Gumby/MJ2/Ether C is a wonderful pairing. As noted, you will need to spend alittle time (and coin) to find the tube sound you like. I much prefer NOS tubes. The stock tubes Schiit sends, or even the new build Gold Lions just sound to grainey to me.


----------



## maximal112

So you feel that at 799 the LC isn't as competitive as it was after the first production run where it was cheaper? I had considered getting both to try given that there is a decent wait on the LC at the moment anyway. Having never had a tube amp before, where is a good place to try and get tubes from? Aside from the obvious sound differences between them is there anything that makes one tube better or worse than another? Even within the same production?


----------



## shultzee

maximal112 said:


> So you feel that at 799 the LC isn't as competitive as it was after the first production run where it was cheaper? I had considered getting both to try given that there is a decent wait on the LC at the moment anyway. Having never had a tube amp before, where is a good place to try and get tubes from? Aside from the obvious sound differences between them is there anything that makes one tube better or worse than another? Even within the same production?


 

 Tube buying is a monster in itself.   Here is a thread that discuss the 6922 type of tubes    http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes
 I have had good luck buying from Upscale Audio ,   and Tube Depot,  but there is a multitude of places.
  
 This is just my opinion but at 599.00 I felt the LC was a heck of a deal for a nice sounding amp.   However now with the price so close to the MJ2 , I personally would choose the MJ2 .  There are others here that will see it the other way.   One thing for sure, both are very good sounding balanced amps.   Just different flavors.


----------



## maximal112

Yea I kind of had that feeling, but definitely looking forward to being able to try different tubes. Thanks, I'll start reading through that
  
 Well yea that was the impression that I got reading about the LC from everyone on here but I guess given the extra $200 now it's not quite the bargain that is used to be. Would have liked to order a Liquid Crimson or Glass but was a bit above what I was looking to spend at this stage, maybe one day. If only it wasn't so expensive to get anything here in Aus, should have been into this a few years ago when the exchange rate was better
  
 Thanks for the help


----------



## cskippy

Another thing to think about is that the Carbon is strictly a headphone amp.  The Mjolnir 2 offers the same amount of connectivity in regards to inputs but it adds preamp outputs both single ended and balanced that could go to powered monitors or a poweramp.  This is why I want one.


----------



## maximal112

More diversity never a bad thing, not that I am in need of a preamp at the moment but who knows what the future may hold. Been thinking about maybe getting the LC to go next to my bed because who doesn't like to lie down while listening. Although keeping my Mojo might be the better choice in that department merely for the sake of not having too many cables running around. Too many decisions to make, not enough money


----------



## rmoody

cskippy said:


> Another thing to think about is that the Carbon is strictly a headphone amp.  The Mjolnir 2 offers the same amount of connectivity in regards to inputs but it adds preamp outputs both single ended and balanced that could go to powered monitors or a poweramp.  This is why I want one.


 

 Do realize the thing doesn't mute the pre amp outs...period. Not before the relays close for the tubes to warm up, not when you plugin single ended cans, not when you plug in balanced cans.
  
 Every time I power my MJ2 on I get a pop through my monitors.


----------



## cskippy

That's why you turn on your speakers AFTER you power up in the correct order.  Alternatively, put the powered monitors on their own power strip and turn them on after you turn on the Mjolnir 2.


----------



## rmoody

cskippy said:


> That's why you turn on your speakers AFTER you power up in the correct order.  Alternatively, put the powered monitors on their own power strip and turn them on after you turn on the Mjolnir 2.


 

 Yeah yeah, everyone is sooo smart...start's shopping for a two outlet power strip.


----------



## Ttenu

cskippy said:


> Another thing to think about is that the Carbon is strictly a headphone amp.  The Mjolnir 2 offers the same amount of connectivity in regards to inputs but it adds preamp outputs both single ended and balanced that could go to powered monitors or a poweramp.  This is why I want one.


 
 Little known fact but the Mjolnir 2 is also an amazing sounding speaker amp. It has ridiculous power for a headphone amp. 
  
 Use an adapter consisting of 4-pin XLR on one end to speaker wires on the other and the MJ2 transforms into a mini Ragnarok. Enjoy the same magical sound the MJ2 delivers to balanced headphones through speakers. Stay nearfield if your speakers are low sensitivity.
  
 I have powered speakers ranging from 88dB to 97dB sensitivity and it has adequate volume on gain 1. In fact, it sounds better than my single ended tube amp which makes the MJ2 one of the best purchases I've ever made.
  
 It feeds my balanced headphones, my unbalanced headphones, pre-outs to my subs, XLR outs to a speaker amp (separate speakers), and, of course, my near field passive speakers. All with the option of tube or solid state. The only part of the MJ2 I'm not using is the single ended input which would be a prime candidate for a turntable input following a phono stage.


----------



## cskippy

I'm blown away by the versatility that it offers.


----------



## Mediahound

Just posted my impressions of the MJ2 vs Cavalli Liquid Carbon here: 
  


mediahound said:


> I think I'll be composing and posting a  review of the LC eventually but here are my impressions so far:
> 
> I can confirm the LC drives the HD800 S just fine (balanced) with no perceived lacking of power or dynamics!
> 
> ...


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

The problem with Cavalli (and Woo, Audeze, MSB worst of all) is that they're boutique companies for whom aggressive pricing is not a foremost concern. Sure, I might splurge for the BHSE someday in the future, but Mjolnir 2 is among the best $1000 buys I've made, of any kind. I don't see myself selling it, or upgrading, outside getting something for the HE6.


----------



## Mediahound

bosiemoncrieff said:


> The problem with Cavalli (and Woo, Audeze, MSB worst of all) is that they're boutique companies for whom aggressive pricing is not a foremost concern. Sure, I might splurge for the BHSE someday in the future, but Mjolnir 2 is among the best $1000 buys I've made, of any kind. I don't see myself selling it, or upgrading, outside getting something for the HE6.


 

 True. I pretty much hate Cavalli's business plan of taking your money in full up-front, non-refundable, and then going into production on the product with delivery several months later.


----------



## maximal112

Thank you for the comparison Mediahound. Nice to have a direct comparison between the 2, as I've read a lot about each of them but not too much on how they compare together. Doesn't make the decision any easier though. I know I'm definitely going to go with the MJ2 as for the price it seems like I can't go wrong, but still kind of want to get the carbon as well just to hear it and maybe make use of it somewhere else. 
  
  


bosiemoncrieff said:


> The problem with Cavalli (and Woo, Audeze, MSB worst of all) is that they're boutique companies for whom aggressive pricing is not a foremost concern. Sure, I might splurge for the BHSE someday in the future, but Mjolnir 2 is among the best $1000 buys I've made, of any kind. I don't see myself selling it, or upgrading, outside getting something for the HE6.


 
 Seems to be the general consensus with a lot of the Schiit products which is what has drawn me to them in the first place. Looking for something that I can be happy with for the next few years and not feel the need to upgrade. I'm sure I probably will because who doesn't want shiny new things, but If I feel like there's not too much more to improve upon less likely to want to do so in the immediate future


----------



## Mediahound

My review of the MJ2 is now up here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/schiit-mjolnir-2/reviews/15764


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

And mine is here! http://www.head-fi.org/products/schiit-mjolnir-2/reviews/15772


----------



## maheeinfy

Over on LC thread, there were some impressions that MJ2 is slight bright

Can that be fixed via tube rolling?


----------



## Mediahound

maheeinfy said:


> Over on LC thread, there were some impressions that MJ2 is slight bright
> 
> Can that be fixed via tube rolling?


 

 I'm running Amperex Orange Globes and it's not any brighter than the LC, just as smooth and musical, but a lot more detailed and wider sound stage.


----------



## maheeinfy

mediahound said:


> I'm running Amperex Orange Globes and it's not any brighter than the LC, just as smooth and musical, but a lot more detailed and wider sound stage.



Thanks. Another qsn if you dont mind

Is SE headphone out good? Balanced must sound great, but not all of my cans can take advantage of balanced


----------



## Ttenu

maheeinfy said:


> Thanks. Another qsn if you dont mind
> 
> Is SE headphone out good? Balanced must sound great, but not all of my cans can take advantage of balanced




SE is satisfactory. Balanced is a revelation.


----------



## shultzee

maheeinfy said:


> Over on LC thread, there were some impressions that MJ2 is slight bright
> 
> Can that be fixed via tube rolling?


 

 Running most tubes the MJ2 is not bright.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I don't think it's bright with LISST. Or with stock tubes. Maybe some people who think it is are just really into dark-sounding amps.


----------



## rmoody

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I don't think it's bright with LISST. Or with stock tubes. Maybe some people who think it is are just really into dark-sounding amps.


 

 I felt it was congested and not as pleasing a sound with LISST. Definitely not too bright with the stock tubes to me. Listening with Ether C.


----------



## Mediahound

Anyone know of any aftermarket feet that perhaps fit over the stock feet to raise the MJ2 a bit higher when stacked on the Gungnir?


----------



## rmoody

My Mjolnir died yesterday. Emailed Schiit, still no RMA. I'm sad.


----------



## Mediahound

rmoody said:


> My Mjolnir died yesterday. Emailed Schiit, still no RMA. I'm sad.


 

 What happened to it?


----------



## rmoody

mediahound said:


> What happened to it?


 

 Wish I knew. I turned it on, relays closed, it shut off.
  
 Got the RMA filed. Will ship tomorrow from work (friend at work has had to ship some items back to Schiit he's told me we get a pretty good discount seeing how much our company ships I suppose).
  
 First world problems huh?


----------



## Mediahound

rmoody said:


> Wish I knew. I turned it on, relays closed, it shut off.
> 
> Got the RMA filed. Will ship tomorrow from work (friend at work has had to ship some items back to Schiit he's told me we get a pretty good discount seeing how much our company ships I suppose).
> 
> Third world problems huh?


 

 You have a 5 Year warranty on it from Schiit so I wouldn't worry. I'm sure they will get it taken care of.


----------



## rmoody

mediahound said:


> You have a 5 Year warranty on it from Schiit so I wouldn't worry. I'm sure they will get it taken care of.


 

 Yeah, they do right. Worst case they deem it my fault and I get a repair bill.


----------



## shultzee

rmoody said:


> mediahound said:
> 
> 
> > You have a 5 Year warranty on it from Schiit so I wouldn't worry. I'm sure they will get it taken care of.
> ...


 

 I had a DOA  Mjolnir 2.  They took care of it right away.  It may be a pain to go through but they do stand behind their products.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

They forgot to ship tubes and lisst with my mj2 and got them to me fairly quickly thereafter


----------



## Mediahound

I posted a quick video review here:


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Pretty sure Schiit won't cover the repair if I put in one tube and one LISST and Mjolnir 2 explodes, but I kinda want to try.


----------



## Mediahound

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Pretty sure Schiit won't cover the repair if I put in one tube and one LISST and Mjolnir 2 explodes, but I kinda want to try.


 

 I sorta doubt that will break anything, but don't quote me on that.


----------



## maximal112

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Pretty sure Schiit won't cover the repair if I put in one tube and one LISST and Mjolnir 2 explodes, but I kinda want to try.


 
  
 Let me know how it sounds, I've been wondering the same thing


----------



## cskippy

That just doesn't make sense to do.  You're treating the left and right side separately pretty much like a horribly matched set of tubes.  Plus there's the risk of damage to the amp.  Don't do it.


----------



## hidehide

I'm deciding between this and the Valhalla 2.. Will this amp to be paired with Gumby an overkill for my HD650 or B&O H8? Thanks.


----------



## Ttenu

hidehide said:


> I'm deciding between this and the Valhalla 2.. Will this amp to be paired with Gumby an overkill for my HD650 or B&O H8? Thanks.


 
  
 I would highly recommend springing for the Mjolnir 2. For three main reasons.
  
 1. Gumby/MJ2 is a beautiful looking and sounding stack, one which Jason Stoddard himself uses in lieu of Ygg/Rag stack.
  
 2. Gumby excels with its balanced outputs. MJ2 is fully balanced for a balanced path from DAC through amp. Use balanced headphones for ultimate quality, or the single ended - allowing more options when it comes to headphones and mods.
  
 3. MJ2's ability to switch between solid state and tubes. After using tubes a while, it is nice to use LISST for a baseline sound. Then back to tubes again. Keeps things interesting.
  
 It's not overkill - it's an amp that you will not regret when you see it stacked on your Gumby and hear the made-to-be matching.
  
 Bonus points for Mjolnir 2... use the additional single ended inputs with a turntable for intimate analog listening experience. Use the XLR outs for powered monitors and the single ended outs for a pair of subs.


----------



## hidehide

ttenu said:


> I would highly recommend springing for the Mjolnir 2. For three main reasons.
> 
> 1. Gumby/MJ2 is a beautiful looking and sounding stack, one which Jason Stoddard himself uses in lieu of Ygg/Rag stack.
> 
> ...


 
 I definitely agreed with you on the look of stacking the Gumby/MJ2 together, they just looks beautiful together.
  
 And yes, one of the reason I wanted MJ2 is because of the XLR balanced output as I am planning to connect to my A7X active monitors too. If I'm going for Valhalla 2, I will have to buy a separate preamp for the volume control (Emotiva Control Freak $50). The point 3 you mentioned seems interestingly, I haven't thought of it before. 
  
 So I'm leaning towards the MJ2 now.. I just got attracted by it's look..


----------



## mamzh2000

I have had Gumby/MJ2 for about a week now. I love it, the only thing I wish more is a remote for MJ2. At the beginning, I felt that LISS didn't sound as good as tube, but now, I think they are close, I couldn't tell the difference without critical listening.


----------



## tjl5709

hidehide said:


> I'm deciding between this and the Valhalla 2.. Will this amp to be paired with Gumby an overkill for my HD650 or B&O H8? Thanks.


 
  
 Not overkill for the 650's. They will respond to the higher quality input. Go get some balanced cables at the big book store for them.


----------



## auvgeek

deleted because I realized I haven't heard the gear I'm trying to give advice about, and that's just silly.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

It's not quite an end-game setup, but it's damn close, and for the price blows everything else away. If there's *any* chance of upgrading headphones in the future it's a no-brainer. If you're determined not to—eh. Spending over 2k to drive a $400 headphone strikes me as a bit odd, but to each his own.


----------



## hidehide

bosiemoncrieff said:


> It's not quite an end-game setup, but it's damn close, and for the price blows everything else away. If there's *any* chance of upgrading headphones in the future it's a no-brainer. If you're determined not to—eh. Spending over 2k to drive a $400 headphone strikes me as a bit odd, but to each his own.


 True. The headphone was bought when I was still in university. And now I have been working for a few years, and got some cash to spend to upgrade my gear.. The DAC was originally planning to match with my Adam A7X, but I also need a headphone amp and Mjolnir 2 looks great with the Gungnir.. I will upgrade my headphone in the future too.. Any good recommendation? LCD-2/3? Or Mr. Speaker?


----------



## tvnosaint

I'd give the zmf omni a serious look. It's my favorite hp to date. the best built headphones out there . Fantastic detail and clarity. If you look in its thread here there are some recent thoughts and a few reviews. It responds beautifully to balanced power.


----------



## auvgeek

hidehide said:


> True. The headphone was bought when I was still in university. And now I have been working for a few years, and got some cash to spend to upgrade my gear.. The DAC was originally planning to match with my Adam A7X, but I also need a headphone amp and Mjolnir 2 looks great with the Gungnir.. I will upgrade my headphone in the future too.. Any good recommendation? LCD-2/3? Or Mr. Speaker?


 
 To me, part of the question is whether you need a headamp that doubles as a balanced pre or not. Since you do, the MJ2 is definitely a big contender.
  
 But as for an approach, I think you'll do better if decide what (relatively-affordable) "end-game" headphone suits your sonic preferences best (HD800, LCD-3, HE-6, HE-X, ZMF Omni, etc), and then pick an amp to drive it. If you want to stick with high-impedance dynamic cans, you may love the BH Crack + Speedball. Or maybe this: http://www.head-fi.org/t/806947/sennheiser-hdva-600-amp. If you want to go with the HE-6, you'll need a speaker amp. If you pick the LCD series, at least one member has said he prefers the Bryson to the MJ2. 
  
 The thing that's hard about the MJ2 is that I haven't really heard a consensus on what headphones it has great synergy with and how it compares sonically to other amps known for driving those headphones well. For example, there's pretty much consensus that the Gustard H10 has incredible synergy with the HE-560 and there are plenty of posts on how it sounds compared to the Lyr2 and Liquid Carbon with the HE-560 specifically.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'm learning firsthand how punishing the HE-6s are to their owners—almost to the point where I would recommend against purchasing them, given their now-discontinued status. The amp though seems fairly flexible—I haven't heard of any especially bad pairings.


----------



## rmoody

Mjolnir came home today. Blown fuse. That was one expensive ass fuse! Why didn't they just put a fuse socket on the thing?
  
 Until I find a better solution, I think I'll just leave it one from now on. So nice to have the stack back together.
  
 Poor Asgard.


----------



## Mediahound

rmoody said:


> Mjolnir came home today. Blown fuse. That was one expensive ass fuse! Why didn't they just put a fuse socket on the thing?
> 
> Until I find a better solution, I think I'll just leave it one from now on. So nice to have the stack back together.
> 
> Poor Asgard.


 

 Seems like leaving it on all the time will leave the fuse more vunerable, not less.


----------



## rmoody

mediahound said:


> Seems like leaving it on all the time will leave the fuse more vunerable, not less.


 

 It blew during powerup. I suspect because of my powered monitors being connected and on.


----------



## Mediahound

rmoody said:


> It blew during powerup. I suspect because of my powered monitors being connected and on.


 

 That doesn't make sense to me, unless you're using some kind of balanced to SE adapter (which Schiit advised not to). Also, was this covered under warranty?


----------



## rmoody

mediahound said:


> That doesn't make sense to me, unless you're using some kind of balanced to SE adapter (which Schiit advised not to). Also, was this covered under warranty?


 

 Mjolnir 2 has balanced and SE outputs and inputs.
  
 I run balanced from my Gungnir to the Mjolnir 2 balanced from the Mjonlir 2 to my Yamaha HS8s.
  
 Yes.


----------



## Mediahound

rmoody said:


> Mjolnir 2 has balanced and SE outputs and inputs.
> 
> I run balanced from my Gungnir to the Mjolnir 2 balanced from the Mjonlir 2 to my Yamaha HS8s.
> 
> Yes.


 

 I have my powered speakers on all the time when powering on the MJ2 and haven't had any issue yet. That said, I usually turn the volume knob all the way down before I power down the MJ2 and it's still all the way down the next time I power it up. Maybe that helps things since there should technically be very little signal surging through any of the outputs?


----------



## rmoody

mediahound said:


> I have my powered speakers on all the time when powering on the MJ2 and haven't had any issue yet. That said, I usually turn the volume knob all the way down before I power down the MJ2 and it's still all the way down the next time I power it up. Maybe that helps things since there should technically be very little signal surging through any of the outputs?


 

 hmm, I usually turn the volume down myself but I get an awful pop once the relays close when I turn on my MJ2. What monitors are you using?


----------



## Mediahound

rmoody said:


> hmm, I usually turn the volume down myself but I get an awful pop once the relays close when I turn on my MJ2. What monitors are you using?


 

 Audioengine A5+, so not balanced. I do not hear any pop or anything when powering up the MJ2. I do through headphones though so I make sure no headphones are plugged in before powering up.


----------



## ToddRaymond

Sounds like a good plan to me, Mediahound.

I'm wondering if anyone could offer their thoughts on the difference between the performance of the SE 1/4" out on the Mjolnir 2 vs. the Asgard 2. I realize that there'd be a doubling of output power with the former, and I also understand that the balanced out is gonna be "where it's at" with the latter, but I'm hoping for at least somewhat of an increase in performance with my fancy single-ended IEMs. My source is the mighty 'Gumby'.


----------



## rmoody

mediahound said:


> Audioengine A5+, so not balanced. I do not hear any pop or anything when powering up the MJ2. I do through headphones though so I make sure no headphones are plugged in before powering up.


 

 I wonder if there is any benefit with balanced line out to my monitors considering they are not powered by the MJ2.


----------



## Mediahound

rmoody said:


> I wonder if there is any benefit with balanced line out to my monitors considering they are not powered by the MJ2.


 

 I don't understand the question. Balanced line out will be better sounding than single-ended.


----------



## hidehide

rmoody said:


> I wonder if there is any benefit with balanced line out to my monitors considering they are not powered by the MJ2.


 I assumed you mean through the pre-amp balanced output. The benefit is to be able to control the volume with the volume knob..


----------



## Ttenu

turdski said:


> Sounds like a good plan to me, Mediahound.
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone could offer their thoughts on the difference between the performance of the SE 1/4" out on the Mjolnir 2 vs. the Asgard 2. I realize that there'd be a doubling of output power with the former, and I also understand that the balanced out is gonna be "where it's at" with the latter, but I'm hoping for at least somewhat of an increase in performance with my fancy single-ended IEMs. My source is the mighty 'Gumby'.


 
  
 I am in consensus that the Mjolnir 2 balanced headphone output is a revelation. That said, I enjoy the SE headphone out just the same. It might not be my "favorite son," but it's still my child, and I love it. With Mjolnir 2, you get so much more flexibility than the Asgard 2. Of course, there is the matching stack reasoning and then no doubt more flexibility for audio fun in the future. Mjolnir 2 black is an empty void of nothing, sound through the IEM's should sound like they are being delivered from another dimension. 14 day return policy - try it!


----------



## rmoody

hidehide said:


> I assumed you mean through the pre-amp balanced output. The benefit is to be able to control the volume with the volume knob..


 

 Volume is controllable via SE and balanced pre-amp outputs.


----------



## hidehide

How is this amp pairing with the HD800/LCD-X/LCD-3? I am thinking to get a new pair of headphone to compliment with my new amp.
 Mainly listen to classical and rock/metal...


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

See my review of the Mjolnir 2 for more on its pairing with HD800 and HE-6. Just updated it with HE-6/stock tube listening impressions.


----------



## zive

Two things to keep in mind:
  
 Like with a conventional, passive set of speakers you always want to turn your source (MJ2) on first, _then_ turn on your speakers. When powering down you should turn off the speakers first, _then_ your source. This prevents the "thumping" you've described and will protect your speakers from any damage caused by a surge of signal when you turn on your MJ2.
  
 Secondly, there _is_ an advantage to using XLR-XLR connections between your MJ2 and your monitors, but it's only a matter of eliminating radio/electromagnetic interference along the path between the two. This difference will be small compared to using the RCA pre-outs to connect your monitors as long as they are close to (≤~10ft from) your MJ2. If there's a greater distance between your MJ2 and your monitors or if you have a wireless router nearby you may start to hear noise (usually hissing) when your speakers are on but no music is being played. By using XLR connections along the chain you should guarantee that there is no hissing coming from your speakers as long as your gear is plugged into properly grounded outlets. 
  
 I hope that helps. Cheers!


----------



## Ttenu

An additional benefit of XLR is one less circuit in the signal path, that is, the summing circuit on the RCA connectors. MJ2 is fully balanced, take advantage of it.


----------



## jbird55044

mamzh2000 said:


> I have had Gumby/MJ2 for about a week now. I love it, the only thing I wish more is a remote for MJ2. At the beginning, I felt that LISS didn't sound as good as tube, but now, I think they are close, I couldn't tell the difference without critical listening.


 

 Congrats on your new toys!  I'm about 2 weeks in on my Gumby/MJ2 stack and still getting to know it.   I'm 100% headphones at this point, so the volume knob is not an issue.   I think one of the reasons the remotes don't happen in this class of equipment is the additional noise that's introduced w/ the additional electronics.   So one way to accomplish that is to have a mechanical motor actually spin the knob, but that's both expensive, relatively unreliable (any mechanical device will introduce unreliability), and will still introduce noise at least when it's spinning.   Just my thoughts why you don't see it.
  
 I have the LISST as well but lean to the glass tubes pretty quickly after a song or two.  I see the LISST as a disaster recovery plan in the event I break all of my tubes some how.  
  
 I am enjoying the new DAC/Amp.   It is a replacement to my JDS Labs O2 amp/DAC combo.   This new stack is 10 times the cost, but certainly changes the game some!
  
 I'm still feeling I have some optimization in getting it setup correctly.   I think I have the stream rate figured out now - streaming into the DAC w/ a laptop USB via TIDAL.


----------



## ToddRaymond

ttenu said:


> I am in consensus that the Mjolnir 2 balanced headphone output is a revelation. That said, I enjoy the SE headphone out just the same. It might not be my "favorite son," but it's still my child, and I love it. With Mjolnir 2, you get so much more flexibility than the Asgard 2. Of course, there is the matching stack reasoning and then no doubt more flexibility for audio fun in the future. Mjolnir 2 black is an empty void of nothing, sound through the IEM's should sound like they are being delivered from another dimension. 14 day return policy - try it!


 

 Sounds like the ideal route, indeed.  I had debated getting a Lyr 2 (for desk space–my 'Gumby' is actually about 15 feet away, with its balanced out feeding my two channel system), but then I'd probably wind up in the same boat, wondering what I'm missing. I've heard the Lyr 2, and I previously had the original Mjolnir., but haven't heard the 2 with these '75 Reflectors I recently found.  And so on.  Thanks for your insight.


----------



## Gavin C4

I am planning to get the Gumby/MJ2 upgrade to power my HE1000. Anyone with experience with this combo?


----------



## Argo Duck

^ You could always enter HE1000 into the "search this thread" box. HE1000 has been mentioned here and the chances are good some of them were with both pieces


----------



## jbird55044

gavin c4 said:


> I am planning to get the Gumby/MJ2 upgrade to power my HE1000. Anyone with experience with this combo?


 

 Good morning Gavin, that's the combo I'm running here.   I can't be a super help as I'm only 2 or 3 weeks into it, but it's been a GREAT number of weeks so far!  I did go for the multi-bit Gumby, and the optional LISST tube replacements just so I can compare the various options.  I'm running some non-stock tubes and will likely stay that way as it seemed to put it in it's 'happy spot' for the time being.  I'm not sure what to say, but I smile every time I turn it on.  
  
 My source is nothing more than TIDAL at the moment that streams at 44.1.   I find there's enough content out there to keep me more than amused.  I've tried some other FLAC and such, but TIDAL nets the same result for me. 
  
  
 I also run a JDS Labs O2 Combo and HE400i combo (I use at work).  So that's the only real comparison I can make.   And truth be told for under a $1000, that O2 and HE400i is a killer deal.   I would say it's 80% of what I built at home.
  
 The Schiit stack w/ HEK will certainly outperform the other configuration in it's ability to articulate sound.  It's so crazy separated and precise, but perfectly sloppy with the tubes.   Don't know how to describe it.
  
 Let me know if I can answer anything.


----------



## ToddRaymond

Thanks for that, jbird. Good to know. I also have the Gungnir Multibit (with plans to one day upgrade to the Yggy), which primarily feeds my two channel setup, but I've also got 15 foot RCAs from it feeding my Asgard 2, which powers my HE560s (and Kaede IIs). My plan is to get the Mjolnir 2, and even further down the road, pick up something like the HE1000s. Good to know it should still deliver the goods for such capable cans.


----------



## jbird55044

Quote:


turdski said:


> Thanks for that, jbird. Good to know. I also have the Gungnir Multibit (with plans to one day upgrade to the Yggy), which primarily feeds my two channel setup, but I've also got 15 foot RCAs from it feeding my Asgard 2, which powers my HE-560s (and Kaede IIs). My plan is to get the Mjolnir 2, and even further down the road, pick up something like the HE-1000s. Good to know it should still deliver the goods for such capable cans.


 

 Turdski - interesting - thanks for the response.   I guess, if I was running 15-foot cables, I would want them to be balanced, or at least as high voltage as possible.  Any chance on getting your amp on top of your Gungnir, and get your headphone cable become the long cable run?    Just asking, as the from the little I know, the lower the voltage (amplitude) the better the chance of getting noise in that cable, especially pre-amps as you would be amplifying both the signal and noise.   Balanced cables help lessen that issue as they are somewhat self cancelling of noisy frequencies.    So not that I'm trying to spend your money, but if you bring in a new M2, I would certainly ensure you are running it w/ the balanced inputs at the 15 feet if you do indeed need that amp closer than not.   Otherwise, you might consider stacking the two units. . . .   then the best of both worlds is to run the headphones balanced (higher amplitude signal), so you are getting noise rejection on that long cable by being balanced signals as well as higher voltage.  (more accurately, the noise would be the same w/ the higher amplitude, but have a lesser impact on the sound relatively speaking).   Don't mean to be such a geek on you.


----------



## ToddRaymond

Oh, I'm well aware of the benefits of using balanced cables (and better yet, running XLRs from between components that contain balanced topologies), which is why, as I sort of alluded to, my 'Gumby' is feeding my balanced Ayre components in my two channel system. This where probably 2/3 of my listening takes place, as my wonderful girlfriend also immensely appreciates music (and good sound). Using longer(ish) single-ended runs aren't optimal, but I'm using good cabling. I can't really afford two good DACs, and I want volume control whilst 'headphoning' at my computer desk. By the way, I use three 1.5 m USB cables and two Wyrds from my Macbook Pro (which is connected to a Thunderbolt enclosure that contains over half a year of lossless music) to my Gungnir Multibit. No music server is necessary in my case.

But back to them impress-shuns.


----------



## ToTo Man

turdski said:


> Oh, I'm well aware of the benefits of using balanced cables (and better yet, running XLRs from between components that contain balanced topologies), which is why, as I sort of alluded to, my 'Gumby' is feeding my balanced Ayre components in my two channel system. This where probably 2/3 of my listening takes place, as my wonderful girlfriend also immensely appreciates music (and good sound). Using longer(ish) single-ended runs aren't optimal, but I'm using good cabling. I can't really afford two good DACs, and I want volume control whilst 'headphoning' at my computer desk. By the way, I use three 1.5 m USB cables and two Wyrds from my Macbook Pro (which is connected to a Thunderbolt enclosure that contains over half a year of lossless music) to my Gungnir Multibit. No music server is necessary in my case.
> 
> But back to them impress-shuns.


 
  
 Why two Wyrds?  Do you have two DACs?


----------



## ToddRaymond

I said I had *three* 1.5 m USB cables... two Wyrds, a Mac laptop, and a 'Gumby' (which is next to the preamp in my two channel system). Computer desk is 90 degrees, and some distance away, so....

EDIT: By the way, I highly recommend this sort of a set-up (using multiple Wyrds as not only a means of potentially cleaning up your USB signal, but as a range extender.) No streamer is necessary, and you're keeping components with switching power supplies and wifi away from your gear. This assuming one even has a two channel set-up to begin with. YMMVROFLMAONAISE


----------



## jbird55044

Turdski - sounds like a fun, and evolving, setup.  I ended up sticking my Schiit stack under my desk on a 15x15x15 two drawer cube that holds my misc cables, extra tubes and such.  This way I can both reach it and I get away w/ everything being fully balanced.   Lucky for me my Girlfriend thinks my HE1000 look like alien ears and she doesn't want to share - LOL.  
  
 I'm also running a JDS O2/DAC combo for about $250, and for the money, that took care of me wanting to listen in other areas of the house, or even at work.   I can't say it's the 'same' as the Schiit stack, but for the cash outlay it was worth every penny, and sure beats using audio outs on the laptop.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Just got a pair of '68 Orange Globes. They seem to soften some sibilance vs. LISST that I heard in the Nilsson/Corelli/Maazel '67 Tosca. Continuing to a/b, may update my review with impressions.


----------



## auvgeek

turdski said:


> By the way, I highly recommend this sort of a set-up (using multiple Wyrds as not only a means of potentially cleaning up your USB signal, but as a range extender.)


 
  
 I'd use a ethernet instead. Galvanic isolation, etc. Little more expensive but two Wyrds is $200.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-330-Feet-Ethernet-Extender-USB2G4LEXT2/dp/B00HFGQESY?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00


----------



## Sanlitun

rkrug20 said:


> Does this happen to anyone? What's going on? I keep the Yggy Bel Canto 600Ms on all the time. The Yggy and amps are hooked up with XLR cables. The gain is on low.




  
 I'm curious what happened with this. It sounds like your tubes may be shorting while they are warming up.


----------



## reddog

gavin c4 said:


> I am planning to get the Gumby/MJ2 upgrade to power my HE1000. Anyone with experience with this combo?



Hi I have the Gungnir Multibit and Mjolnir 2 and use it to drive my HE1000. The HE1000 sounds great driven by this fantastic stack of steaming Schiit. And the MJ2 is a cool amp because you can roll tubes, to compliment the headphones you are using.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Ditto, it's a very versatile combination and an excellent value.
  
 Updated review: http://www.head-fi.org/products/schiit-mjolnir-2/reviews/15772
  
 tl;dr: with the right tubes, it does wonders with HE-6.


----------



## MattTCG

Disclaimer, not trying to start crap but just a question. Would it not be better to always "unstack" the mjo2/gumby combo?
  
 Now granted, the stack looks sexy like Mrs. TCG in a new nitie, but...
  
 *you're adding considerable heat to the amp and dac, potentially reducing lifespan
  
 *potential introduction of noise especially on the dac
  
 Currently I have them stacked, but I do have room on my desk to place them separately. Just curious.


----------



## crazychile

matttcg said:


> Disclaimer, not trying to start crap but just a question. Would it not be better to always "unstack" the mjo2/gumby combo?
> 
> Now granted, the stack looks sexy like Mrs. TCG in a new nitie, but...
> 
> ...


 

 I don't think having the Mjolnir on top of the Gungnir makes the DAC run very much warmer. Maybe slightly, but not enough to be concerned. However your concern about the increased noise of the DAC could be real. Probably not significant but in a really high quality system you could possibley notice a very small degradation of sound. I ran my Lyr 2 and Bifrost MB this way and can't say I noticed any difference, but I separate them now. When separated it's easier to deal with the cables to keep power and signal cables away from each other.


----------



## Mediahound

crazychile said:


> I don't think having the Mjolnir on top of the Gungnir makes the DAC run very much warmer. Maybe slightly, but not enough to be concerned. However your concern about the increased noise of the DAC could be real. Probably not significant but in a really high quality system you could possibley notice a very small degradation of sound. I ran my Lyr 2 and Bifrost MB this way and can't say I noticed any difference, but I separate them now. When separated it's easier to deal with the cables to keep power and signal cables away from each other.


 
  
 I asked Schiit about this before. 
  
 Although the DAC may be a bit warmer with the amp stacked on top of it, it still is well within the normal operating temperature threshold. The vast majority of customers place them stacked.


----------



## rdaneel

I'm really enjoying my Gumby/Mjolnir combo so far, simply amazing sound.  Unless I have to have a heart to heart with my wallet, I think I'll be keeping the HE-1000s that I'm demoing.  Can anyone recommend any tube rolling options for this combination?  I've seen the Amperex Orange Globes mentioned...  Thanks in advance!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

rdaneel said:


> I'm really enjoying my Gumby/Mjolnir combo so far, simply amazing sound.  Unless I have to have a heart to heart with my wallet, I think I'll be keeping the HE-1000s that I'm demoing.  Can anyone recommend any tube rolling options for this combination?  I've seen the Amperex Orange Globes mentioned...  Thanks in advance!


 

 I have the '68 orange globes and enjoy them. I've heard the '75 reflektors are the best of the best, but are hard to get & expensive.


----------



## jbird55044

rdaneel - today if I look at the amp I'm running Sylvania Gray Plate O Getter ECC88 / 6DJ8 Tubes.   I have to say, i tend to come back to these over and over.  But I thought the OEM ones were plenty good as well.  I guess the only one I didn't care for as much were the LIIST silicone mock tubes.   I'd be interested if you find others you like - I might have a little room in my desk drawer for one more set.


----------



## tvnosaint

Step over to the Lyr tube rolling thread. A lot of tube smart guys there. I like the 75 Reflektors but the Cca from Heerlen are my faves. They just beat every tube at their own strength to me. Then e188cc from Heerlen and suresnes. These tubes have great soundstage. I have a soft spot for ecc88 Blackburn made mullards for the sweetness of vocals and lush tone though they lack the dynamics of the others I mentioned. The 74 reflektors are good too but can be clinical. So much so I had to take them out of my dac. They were good in the Lyr, not quite as cold. I keep a back stock of Philips miniwatts because I love that signature. The e88ccs usually under $100. Valvos are the same tubes. Great. So to me there is no clear number 2 tube. Find a friend and trade around. Tubes cost way more than the amp within a few months. $50, $75 $100,$150 adds up quick. That said, the stock tubes are junk.


----------



## rkrug20

I've been using the Mjolnir 2 with Schiit's phono preamp and really like the Telefunken e88cc/6922. Really nice combo. I have JHAudio IEMs and they're just too sensitive for the Mjolnir 2. Even on low gain there is still an audible hiss in the background.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Do LISST make it better? I have no high end IEMS, but i think solid state in general is quieter than tube.


----------



## Skooks

The Schiit Mjolnir 2 in full balanced mode is excellent with the modified HE-6, 2016 LCD-X, and 2016 LCD-3. With the right tubes... right for your taste... you would have to buy a much more expensive amp to equal or better it... IMO.


----------



## jgoodwin

Does the gain knob on the Mj2 adjust the levels of the preamp outputs as well as the amp outputs? I am hoping I can run from the Mj2 directly into a power amp and then switch between headphones and PA without having to change any wires and just use the Mj2 as a preamp for the PA amp. If the gain doesn't adjust the preamp levels then I will sitll have to run everything through my mixer which is fine but just one more set of circuits that it has to touch.
  
 If it doesn't I could go DAC > Mixer > MJ2 > headpphones/PA amp    orrr   DAC > MJ2 > headphones/mixer > PA amp    - the first option would allow me to mix in more sources to my headphones and allow for easy add ins, but would potentially be a less "clean" signal since it has to go through my board (which isn't the nicest in the world), the second would allow a cleaner headphone sound, but would move my preamp away from the amp and would have to go insert in on the mixer instead of mic in (not the end of the world).
  
 Any suggestions/ideas/thoughts on this situation?


----------



## Mediahound

jgoodwin said:


> Does the gain knob on the Mj2 adjust the levels of the preamp outputs as well as the amp outputs? I am hoping I can run from the Mj2 directly into a power amp and then switch between headphones and PA without having to change any wires and just use the Mj2 as a preamp for the PA amp.




Yes it does.


----------



## rmoody

jgoodwin said:


> Does the gain knob on the Mj2 adjust the levels of the preamp outputs as well as the amp outputs? I am hoping I can run from the Mj2 directly into a power amp and then switch between headphones and PA without having to change any wires and just use the Mj2 as a preamp for the PA amp. If the gain doesn't adjust the preamp levels then I will sitll have to run everything through my mixer which is fine but just one more set of circuits that it has to touch.
> 
> If it doesn't I could go DAC > Mixer > MJ2 > headpphones/PA amp    orrr   DAC > MJ2 > headphones/mixer > PA amp    - the first option would allow me to mix in more sources to my headphones and allow for easy add ins, but would potentially be a less "clean" signal since it has to go through my board (which isn't the nicest in the world), the second would allow a cleaner headphone sound, but would move my preamp away from the amp and would have to go insert in on the mixer instead of mic in (not the end of the world).
> 
> Any suggestions/ideas/thoughts on this situation?


 

 Just keep in mind that the preamp outs do not mute when headphones are connected.
  
 It's my only complaint about the MJ2.


----------



## Ttenu

rmoody said:


> Just keep in mind that the preamp outs do not mute when headphones are connected.
> 
> It's my only complaint about the MJ2.


 
  
 I don't mind this because occasionally I use dual subs with headphones for the body vibration effect. It helps. Actually, I prefer devices that don't mute in various situations, but rather output everything all the time and let me figure out how to handle it.


----------



## McClelland

ttenu said:


> I would highly recommend springing for the Mjolnir 2. For three main reasons
> 
> 2. Gumby excels with its balanced outputs. MJ2 is fully balanced for a balanced path from DAC through amp. Use balanced headphones for ultimate quality, or the single ended - allowing more options when it comes to headphones and mods.


 
@Ttenu Thanks for this recommendation and your thoughts on PM. Same for @RCBinTN who had the same thoughts about the balanced option. I set the Gumby/Mjolnir combo up with the SE connectors first and the 1/4" HP out to my LCD-Xs and later changed to the the balanced path when I got the cables.  I thought the difference was quite striking.  I did some A-B testing and think it is for real, at least for my subjective tastes.  Everything is wonderfully silent beneath the music and both vocals and acoustic instruments in particular, are more pleasing.


----------



## grrorr76

mcclelland said:


> @Ttenu Thanks for this recommendation and your thoughts on PM. Same for @RCBinTN who had the same thoughts about the balanced option. I set the Gumby/Mjolnir combo up with the SE connectors first and the 1/4" HP out to my LCD-Xs and later changed to the the balanced path when I got the cables.  I thought the difference was quite striking.  I did some A-B testing and think it is for real, at least for my subjective tastes.  Everything is wonderfully silent beneath the music and both vocals and acoustic instruments in particular, are more pleasing.


 

 its so striking for me in balanced I will never use SE again its that good.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

As i recall, @reddog is on record saying that he prefers MJ2 + Yggy to Rag + Gumby (please correct me if I'm mistaken!), and it's definitely the combination I'm looking to get sometime this summer.


----------



## reddog

bosiemoncrieff said:


> As i recall, @reddog
> is on record saying that he prefers MJ2 + Yggy to Rag + Gumby (please correct me if I'm mistaken!), and it's definitely the combination I'm looking to get sometime this summer.



Yes the Yggdrasil with any good amp is magical, if you want a session of critical, detailed listening. However using the Gungnir Multibit with any amp, is great for kicking back. I use the Gungnir Multibit, with the MJ2 and the Liquid Crimson, for watching tv and non critical listening.
For critical listening I use the Yggy with the Ragnarock or the Liquid Glass. The MJ2 and Yggy is a sweet sounding combo, I a m s sure you will be quite happy with it.


----------



## McClelland

reddog said:


> Yes the Yggdrasil with any good amp is magical, if you want a session of critical, detailed listening. However using the Gungnir Multibit with any amp, is great for kicking back. I use the Gungnir Multibit, with the MJ2 and the Liquid Crimson, for watching tv and non critical listening.
> For critical listening I use the Yggy with the Ragnarock or the Liquid Glass. The MJ2 and Yggy is a sweet sounding combo, I a m s sure you will be quite happy with it.


 

 One of the things I noticed after receiving the G/MJ2 combo last week, was that great feeling of stretching out the unpacking and setting up when I realized I didn't want to rush through the anticipation of what I would be experiencing.  I enjoyed every little step and then spent several hours going over their highly detailed manual in depth (not!). It reminded me that if I do want to upgrade from Gumby, I would have the same anticipation and it could last even longer if I let the Yggy warm up for several days.


----------



## rdaneel

This may be a dumb question, but I don't want to make a foolish assumption.  Do MJ2s preamp outputs work while the amp is off?  I'm thinking about using it with powered monitors, and would hate to have to run the tubes just to use the preouts...


----------



## zive

Negative. Power must be on.
  
 Edit: If you want a passive pre-amp the SYS will do the trick (assuming you are okay with using SE in/outs).


----------



## Ttenu

rdaneel said:


> This may be a dumb question, but I don't want to make a foolish assumption.  Do MJ2s preamp outputs work while the amp is off?  I'm thinking about using it with powered monitors, and would hate to have to run the tubes just to use the preouts...


 
  
 If your DAC has an additional output, you could use a passive preamp, something as simple as the Schiit Sys, between the DAC and the powered speakers. This can be used as a bypass when you don't want to run it through the MJ2 hardware and tubes. That said, I love using speakers with the MJ2 because tubes sound damn good!


----------



## rdaneel

zive said:


> Negative. Power must be on.




Darn, that's unfortunate. Maybe I can run the Gumby's SE outputs instead. I want to use this with my PC, and don't want to have to switch on the amp, put hours on the tubes, and heat my room, just to have routine PC audio working.


----------



## zive

Understandable. Using LISSTs would solve the tube longevity and heating issues, but if you're okay with controlling your volume directly from your monitors you're probably best off going directly from the GUMBY's SE outs.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Ttenu

rdaneel said:


> Darn, that's unfortunate. Maybe I can run the Gumby's SE outputs instead. I want to use this with my PC, and don't want to have to switch on the amp, put hours on the tubes, and heat my room, just to have routine PC audio working.


 
 Tubes last years and can be inexpensive if you buy good quality new stock. Rare tubes are not cheap but for every day PC audio with the magic of tubes, even one year of life from a set of tubes is a good deal. I've played with going direct from DAC to amp/speakers and cutting out the MJ2, but this Schiit makes audio sound better, so personally, I have no problem with turning on the amp when I get on the computer, and turning it off when I'm done (usually an 8-12 hr period).


----------



## rdaneel

You gents make a good point.  I'm more concerned with burning power unnecessarily and heating up a small office, so running the MJ isn't ideal.  I think a passive preamp or other means of volume control ought to do the trick.  Thanks again for all the advice!


----------



## McClelland

Posted a version of this in the Schiit Happened thread, but they've been into the hard stuff over there for that past day or two so I'm dropping the question here for another try:
  
 I thought I might be looking at a return to speakers sometime in the distant future, having just transitioned to HPs.  I was thinking the GM/MJ2 would be there to feed active speakers. 
  
 I've just learned some things about high-sensitivity speakers from @Ttenu, the Orcas by Blumenstein and the Super 3s by Omega as two examples, and how near field setups might be driven adequately by the MJ2, particularly single-driver speakers powered straight out of the headphone outputs with balanced or single ended adapters that convert to speaker terminal connectors. I'm intrigued and here I am thinking about speakers now. 
  
 I am not concerned about filling a room, but having sweet sound with as much sound stage as I can get at reasonable volumes within a meter's distance, give or take. Does anyone else have any experience with high sensitivity speakers run out of the GM/MJ2 , or powered speakers, for that matter?  Shucks,might as well go all the way as I know I'll be wondering about sub-woofers soon, too.


----------



## Ttenu

rdaneel said:


> You gents make a good point.  I'm more concerned with burning power unnecessarily and heating up a small office, so running the MJ isn't ideal.  I think a passive preamp or other means of volume control ought to do the trick.  Thanks again for all the advice!




Worth noting the MJ2 consumes 7 less watts using LISST and doesn't get as hot. If you give the MJ2 a "lift" so more air moves underneath, it will be even cooler. Finally, if you have a ceiling fan or any kind of air circulation, it stays cool to the touch. 

If you want a simple passive preamp for RCA, look for the Creek OBH-10 on ebay as it is well built and even has a remote control with volume control and mute!


----------



## daha21

Has anyone had a chance to compare Mjolnir 2 with the Burson Audio Soloist? How do they compare?


----------



## Ttenu

mcclelland said:


> I've just learned some things about high-sensitivity speakers from @Ttenu, the Orcas by Blumenstein and the Super 3s by Omega as two examples, and how near field setups might be driven adequately by the MJ2, particularly single-driver speakers powered straight out of the headphone outputs with balanced or single ended adapters that convert to speaker terminal connectors. I'm intrigued and here I am thinking about speakers now.


 
  
 Definitely the balanced front output. Single ended front output has 1/4th the power. 4-pin XLR to speaker cables (4 pin XLR is a left channel red/black and a right channel red/black).


----------



## QwertyQmin

I've just gotten a Mjolnir 2 after selling a Ragnarok and having had a Valhalla a long while back. I always recalled how beautiful and alive the Valhalla sounded and how, quite frankly, the Ragnarok slouched in those terms. 
  
 Right out of the box, I knew I was back in heaven. Even without burn-in, this bad-boy sounds articulate and lively. I'd had the Mjolnir at the 9 o' clock position (low gain) since I turned it on, thinking I'd need to turn it up later on ...
  
 ...nope. not even. The first track came on and I literally recoiled, actually doubting for a little bit and going back to read the manual to ensure the amp wasn't actually in hi-gain mode.
  
 I haven't even gotten close to 12 o' clock with my quietest recordings. So you guys understand why this is such a shock to me, with the Ragnarok I had to switch regularly from medium to high gain settings for different recordings, the volume knob always being at very close to or right on top of the highest setting. What this means is that I'm getting much better dynamics and significantly less distortion out of a pair of LCD-3s than I did with the same headset on a significantly more powerful and 'hifi'ish amp; how this happened, no clue.
  
 The amp itself sounded slightly boring out of the box, which I expected. It took about half an hour before I got back to some serious bliss representative of the Valhalla. Now it's hi-fives and champagne all around.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Running your Mjolnir with tubes rather than LISST?

I never could get my Beyer T1 to sound its best with anything but a tube amp, no matter what SS amps I tried


----------



## QwertyQmin

Tubes! tubes all the way


----------



## tuxbass

In the last 2 weeks I've had a chance to listen to HD800S and WA22 pairing on 2 separate occassions and what I heard is killing me 
 I currently own the Yggy + MJ2 stack and I would love to get my system closer to the way the WA22's sounded.
  
 I am running stock tubes on the MJ2. Would tube rolling get me closer to (if not match) what I heard on the WA22's ? Anyone who has heard both the systems please advice ?
  
 If the answer is to replace the stock tubes, what would be your choice ? (my goal is to get closer to how the WA22s sound without actually buying one for now )


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

The best tubes out there are going to be the '75 Reflektors, but those are pricey and rare...good luck!


----------



## grrorr76

bosiemoncrieff said:


> The best tubes out there are going to be the '75 Reflektors, but those are pricey and rare...good luck!


 

 I was lucky enough to find a matched pair of those so I picked them up instantly , knowing how rare they are.


----------



## tjl5709

tuxbass said:


> In the last 2 weeks I've had a chance to listen to HD800S and WA22 pairing on 2 separate occassions and what I heard is killing me
> I currently own the Yggy + MJ2 stack and I would love to get my system closer to the way the WA22's sounded.
> 
> I am running stock tubes on the MJ2. Would tube rolling get me closer to (if not match) what I heard on the WA22's ? Anyone who has heard both the systems please advice ?
> ...


 
  
 I cannot state a comparison to the WA22, but I do have your stack, andf I do have the HD800s.
  
 Stock tubes are poor compared to a number of NOS tubes available. 
  
 Having come from a Lyr, I have a number of tube sets that I rotate thru, and it's the reason I moved up to the MJ2. I had good tubes to feed it.
  
 Siemans CCa's, Volvo CCa's, Telefunken E188's, 74 & 75 Reflektors to name a few.
  
 I'm done with my rig. Other than eventual upgrades to the yggy as they become available, I cannot see needing to move any further up with my old ears. (unless I get some unforseen cash and can obtain a STAX rig)
  
 Go to the tube roller thread and start there. I gathered mine up a couple years back, so I am not up on what is the current flavor of the day.
  
 Also, careful with catching the roller bug, it could end up being cheaper to go WA22 right away..........


----------



## Argo Duck

^ +1, excellent post. Tubes really do make a difference, as I've experienced with the Schiit Lyr and two Decware amps. Stock tubes rarely provide the best performance.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'm going to update my MJ2 review, but in short, since I've had my multifrost (a week), I've noticed the harshness of LISST (which was probably overstated from the beginning) basically fade away. To my ears, tubes hide some of the mediocrity of delta-sigma dacs—even decent ones, like the uberfrost. Furthermore, my HD600s have gotten much, much better. The soundstage is the same, but the tone is everything that the HD800 lacks, without being syrupy like the 650. Forgiving, natural, realistic. I think a lot of solid state's bad rap has been misattributed—I'm looking forward to (hopefully) hearing the Asgard-tier amps with the multi frost at CanJam SF next month—I think they will punch much further above their weight than we may appreciate. At $599, bifrost multibit is a bargain and a must-buy for anyone with the funds. Frankly, I would counsel people to stick with Fulla until they can afford the upgrade...I need to get my original Vali out of storage to see just what it's capable of.


----------



## Tadamn

waaaa, you are lucky! good job with that!


----------



## Thors-hammer

I'm gonna get a schiit stack, starting with the mjolnir 2 first and will be saving for the obligatory gungnir (multibit or not).

Haven't gone through the informative thread here, but perhaps someone knows if I can use a non balanced dac (via rca) with balanced headphones off the xlr socket? An planning to recable my hd650 and use it with the mjolnir and a xduoo xd05 dac/amp source while I save up the Benjamins for another year to get the gimby. Thanks.


----------



## zive

Yes, you can listen to either RCA or balanced in using either balanced or SE out.


----------



## JoeDoe

If any of you Mjo 2 owners are interested, I'm taking offers to trade my Liquid Crimson down for a Mjo 2 + cash. PM me if you're interested!


----------



## Thors-hammer

zive said:


> Yes, you can listen to either RCA or balanced in using either balanced or SE out.




I see thanks!


----------



## Jiexi

A little off topic, but is anyone looking to get rid of their Mjolnir 2? I can't seem to find second hand ones being sold.


----------



## Thors-hammer

I just received my mjolnir, but I'm curious if my volume pot is properly configured. Im currently plugged in like this : Spotify >ipad > Apple usb connector > FiiO e18 > line out to rca cable > mjolnir 2 rca in > akg k7xx via single ended.

At Low gain, I need to turn up the volume to 2 o clock at least to hear at my usual volume (and no I don't believe in ear piercing loudness). With high gain this is down to 11 o clock.

Can anybody kindly tell me if this is normal when listening single ended? Thanks.


----------



## Licht

It depends on 1. sensitivity of headphones, 2. recording volume level, and 3. DAC output level, but 2 o'clock not strange for single ended.
  
 Single ended in Mjolnir 2 said to have only 1/4 power compared to balanced output.
 However, I tried balanced and SE with both ETHER and came out just slightly more than 1 hour difference in volume pot setting.
 Difference were about the same by PM-3 in single ended and balanced.
  
 With ETHER balanced sourced from Gungnir Multibit balanced, I usually listen in volume pot around 9 to 12 o'clock.
 But by K501 single ended, which is the most hard to drive headphones I own (much harder than HD650 or K701), could be cranked up to 3 o'clock in classical orchestral music.
 Both in low gain.


----------



## Pete Schiller

jiexi said:


> A little off topic, but is anyone looking to get rid of their Mjolnir 2? I can't seem to find second hand ones being sold.


 

 Schiit had B-stock Mjolnir 2s for $80 off of the regular price a couple months ago (I ordered mine on May 10th). I have no idea how often they release their accumulated B-stocks of particular items. I also ordered my Yggdrasil as a B-stock. I don't know if they were customer returns or there was a blemish on the outer case that's so minor, that it's not even worth noting. I wouldn't hesitate to order B-stock from them, plus you get the full warranty, which you don't get when you buy used.
  
 Not the answer you were looking for, but if you're not in a huge rush, it's worth checking for B-stocks on their website, if you can't find a used one. I'm keeping my Mjolnir 2, but may sell my Valhalla 2.


----------



## Jiexi

pete schiller said:


> Schiit had B-stock Mjolnir 2s for $80 off of the regular price a couple months ago (I ordered mine on May 10th). I have no idea how often they release their accumulated B-stocks of particular items. I also ordered my Yggdrasil as a B-stock. I don't know if they were customer returns or there was a blemish on the outer case that's so minor, that it's not even worth noting. I wouldn't hesitate to order B-stock from them, plus you get the full warranty, which you don't get when you buy used.
> 
> Not the answer you were looking for, but if you're not in a huge rush, it's worth checking for B-stocks on their website, if you can't find a used one. I'm keeping my Mjolnir 2, but may sell my Valhalla 2.


 
 Yeah, my main worry about B-stock was cosmetic damage, but with what you're saying, i might just dive in.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ I got a B-stock Yggdrasil. Finished in black, which usually means it was refinished because of cosmetic damage. We have not been able to find where the blemish might have been, and other headfiers' (as well as Pete above) have stated this too over the years...


----------



## koven

argo duck said:


> ^ I got a B-stock Yggdrasil. Finished in black, which usually means it was refinished because of cosmetic damage. We have not been able to find where the blemish might have been, and other headfiers' (as well as Pete above) have stated this too over the years...


 
  
 i didnt know they do black finish, i wish i requested that before i ordered my stack, it would look so much better in black


----------



## Thors-hammer

licht said:


> It depends on 1. sensitivity of headphones, 2. recording volume level, and 3. DAC output level, but 2 o'clock not strange for single ended.
> 
> Single ended in Mjolnir 2 said to have only 1/4 power compared to balanced output.
> However, I tried balanced and SE with both ETHER and came out just slightly more than 1 hour difference in volume pot setting.
> ...




Ah ok thanks. I had the impression that anything beyond 11 o clock at low gain would have blown my low ohm akg's since the amp supposedly was one of the more powerful ones in the market. 

I guess the only way to test it would be to break out the hd650s and see if it sings.


----------



## Argo Duck

You can't order black as it's only done when there's a blemish. We were incredibly lucky. My wife preferred black but it wasn't a deal-breaker. I mentioned this in the order and...Schiit had one available in B stock. It's always worth asking.



koven said:


> i didnt know they do black finish, i wish i requested that before i ordered my stack, it would look so much better in black


----------



## McClelland

argo duck said:


> You can't order black as it's only done when there's a blemish. We were incredibly lucky. My wife preferred black but it wasn't a deal-breaker. I mentioned this in the order and...Schiit had one available in B stock. It's always worth asking.


 

 I would definitely ask.  They will get back to you quickly.


----------



## cbl117

Can anyone tell me the total height of a gungnir/Mjolnir2 stack?  (from desktop to top of mjolnir, not including tubes)


----------



## Mediahound

cbl117 said:


> Can anyone tell me the total height of a gungnir/Mjolnir2 stack?  (from desktop to top of mjolnir, not including tubes)




5 1/4"


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Heard a first-generation WA5-LE yesterday. It was extremely musical with HD800, but exhibited debilitating transient clipping with HE-6. Mjolnir 2, while not the last word of summit-fi refinement, provided much more power. I can turn it up to ear-splitting levels without it exhibiting any of the hideous distortion that I heard with the WA5-LEv1. I note that the second-generation WA5-LE fixed this problem.
  
 Bottom line, I loved my Mjolnir 2 yesterday, and with my Tidal subscription, today I love it even more. <3


----------



## prismstorm

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Heard a first-generation WA5-LE yesterday. It was extremely musical with HD800, but exhibited debilitating transient clipping with HE-6. Mjolnir 2, while not the last word of summit-fi refinement, provided much more power. I can turn it up to ear-splitting levels without it exhibiting any of the hideous distortion that I heard with the WA5-LEv1. I note that the second-generation WA5-LE fixed this problem.
> 
> Bottom line, I loved my Mjolnir 2 yesterday, and with my Tidal subscription, today I love it even more. <3


 
 Does this mean you have heard the new WA5-LE and compared it with the Mjolnir 2? If so, which do you recommend to go for (the huge price difference is noted...)


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

prismstorm said:


> Does this mean you have heard the new WA5-LE and compared it with the Mjolnir 2? If so, which do you recommend to go for (the huge price difference is noted...)




The wa5lev2 is more musical, more refined, more transparent. It is not 4x any of these things, and it is 4x the price. It can drive he6 well, as well as lcd 3 and 4. I don't love he1000 but it drove that well too. If it were me, I'd buy the wa5 and the wee so as to drive speakers, headphones, and electrostats. 

All told wa5le, which is being replaced by something else early next year, is an ok value, but I can't see myself dropping the $$$ until I can afford it's bigger brother.


----------



## McClelland

prismstorm said:


> Does this mean you have heard the new WA5-LE and compared it with the Mjolnir 2? If so, which do you recommend to go for (the huge price difference is noted...)


 
 Quote: 





bosiemoncrieff said:


> The wa5lev2 is more musical, more refined, more transparent. It is not 4x any of these things, and it is 4x the price. It can drive he6 well, as well as lcd 3 and 4. I don't love he1000 but it drove that well too. If it were me, I'd buy the wa5 and the wee so as to drive speakers, headphones, and electrostats.
> 
> All told wa5le, which is being replaced by something else early next year, is an ok value, but I can't see myself dropping the $$$ until I can afford it's bigger brother.


 

 There are also lots of interesting powered speaker options for near-field listening if that suffices for your room speaker needs. the MJ2 can run them and a subwoofer to create a satisfying headphone and speaker system.  I don't know about driving electrostats.  I don't know how Woo handles repairs when buying direct, but  I've needed to ship products back to the Pacific Rim for repairs and the cost including insurance was formidable.  That may not be an issue if someone can afford the Woo products to begin with, but it is a thought.


----------



## WilCox

mcclelland said:


> I don't know how Woo handles repairs when buying direct, but  I've needed to ship products back to the Pacific Rim for repairs and the cost including insurance was formidable.  That may not be an issue if someone can afford the Woo products to begin with, but it is a thought.


 
  
 Just to clarify, Woo products, are made in New York, not the Pacific Rim.  Like Schiit, they have a well-earned reputation for customer care.


----------



## McClelland

wilcox said:


> Just to clarify, Woo products, are made in New York, not the Pacific Rim.  Like Schiit, they have a well-earned reputation for customer care.


 

 Sorry, my mistake.  Thanks for the correction.


----------



## prismstorm

bosiemoncrieff said:


> The wa5lev2 is more musical, more refined, more transparent. It is not 4x any of these things, and it is 4x the price. It can drive he6 well, as well as lcd 3 and 4. I don't love he1000 but it drove that well too. If it were me, I'd buy the wa5 and the wee so as to drive speakers, headphones, and electrostats.
> 
> All told wa5le, which is being replaced by something else early next year, is an ok value, but I can't see myself dropping the $$$ until I can afford it's bigger brother.


 
 I thought the WA5LE and the WA5 have both been upgraded just back in late 2015, where have you heard that they are being replaced by something else? I was thinking to get the Mjolnir 2 (versatility, options, lower price, form factor) first to drive potential cans (Ether, LCD 4) until I can save up and get the WA5 to drive both headphones and speakers ....


----------



## Jiexi

Pulled the trigger on new MJ2s, Will give my impression with MJ2 -> Gumby -> LCD3F when I it. Super exciting, but poor wallet.


----------



## gto88

do let us know, I am thinking to get MJ2 as tube amp for my HE1000.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

It's a capable choice that demonstrates a great value. Obviously not quite as transparent as something for 3x the price from Cavalli or Woo, but you will not find it wanting.


----------



## bluesaint

After going through LISST, Reflektor 75 HG's, and other various tubes, I've finally settled  on the Ifi NOS 6922 tubes.  Sounds wonderful with MJ2, "for me" it checks all the right boxes in term clarity, warmth, bass impact, sound stage, etc..


----------



## mamzh2000

bluesaint said:


> After going through LISST, Reflektor 75 HG's, and other various tubes, I've finally settled  on the Ifi NOS 6922 tubes.  Sounds wonderful with MJ2, "for me" it checks all the right boxes in term clarity, warmth, bass impact, sound stage, etc..


 
 Did you mean ifi-audio.com? I am looking for a pair of 6922s too. Thanks!


----------



## grrorr76

mamzh2000 said:


> Did you mean ifi-audio.com? I am looking for a pair of 6922s too. Thanks!


 
  


bluesaint said:


> After going through LISST, Reflektor 75 HG's, and other various tubes, I've finally settled  on the Ifi NOS 6922 tubes.  Sounds wonderful with MJ2, "for me" it checks all the right boxes in term clarity, warmth, bass impact, sound stage, etc..


 

 I currently have the Reflektor 75 HG's in my Mjolnir 2 they sound incredible . Id love to try the Ifi NOS 6922 because as far as my ears tell me, the holy grails are the best I have heard, it would take a lot to beat them.


----------



## bluesaint

grrorr76 said:


> I currently have the Reflektor 75 HG's in my Mjolnir 2 they sound incredible . Id love to try the Ifi NOS 6922 because as far as my ears tell me, the holy grails are the best I have heard, it would take a lot to beat them.


 
 Yes the 75 HG's were incredible as it does everything well.  But I actually preferred LISST over 75HG's.  I recall'ed there were others either on this thread or the LISST thread had the same result.  What I didn't like with LISST was end of day still lack tube warmth, but the Ifi NOS 6922 in my setup and to my ears, takes the Best of 75HG and LISST together into a single package.  More importantly the IFI Nos 6922 are quite affordable compared to 75HG.
  
 Again, as with Tubes, YMMV.


----------



## grrorr76

bluesaint said:


> Yes the 75 HG's were incredible as it does everything well.  But I actually preferred LISST over 75HG's.  I recall'ed there were others either on this thread or the LISST thread had the same result.  What I didn't like with LISST was end of day still lack tube warmth, but the Ifi NOS 6922 in my setup and to my ears, takes the Best of 75HG and LISST together into a single package.  More importantly the IFI Nos 6922 are quite affordable compared to 75HG.
> 
> Again, as with Tubes, YMMV.


 

 any idea where I could pick up a set that ship internationally , id love to try a pair and hear them for myself.


----------



## bluesaint

grrorr76 said:


> any idea where I could pick up a set that ship internationally , id love to try a pair and hear them for myself.


 
 http://ifi-audio.com/sales/


----------



## grrorr76

bluesaint said:


> http://ifi-audio.com/sales/


 
 they are distributers not stores


----------



## Vigrith

bluesaint said:


> Yes the 75 HG's were incredible as it does everything well.  But I actually preferred LISST over 75HG's.  I recall'ed there were others either on this thread or the LISST thread had the same result.  What I didn't like with LISST was end of day still lack tube warmth, but the Ifi NOS 6922 in my setup and to my ears, takes the Best of 75HG and LISST together into a single package.  More importantly the IFI Nos 6922 are quite affordable compared to 75HG.
> 
> Again, as with Tubes, YMMV.


 
  
 Oh, that's actually very interesting. They are reasonably priced and widely available, much easier than endless tube hunting on e-bay and less known websites that hardly ever ship to where I reside (or Europe at all some times, even) for someone who is both very busy as new to valves.
  
 Thank you for sharing, I appreciate it a lot. Also cool picture! The tubes light up very nicely and I like that iFi provides the custom adapters/holders.


----------



## Mediahound

bluesaint said:


> Yes the 75 HG's were incredible as it does everything well.  But I actually preferred LISST over 75HG's.  I recall'ed there were others either on this thread or the LISST thread had the same result.  What I didn't like with LISST was end of day still lack tube warmth, but the Ifi NOS 6922 in my setup and to my ears, takes the Best of 75HG and LISST together into a single package.  More importantly the IFI Nos 6922 are quite affordable compared to 75HG.
> 
> Again, as with Tubes, YMMV.


 

 I had no idea these even existed. Any place online where they can be purchased?


----------



## Vigrith

mediahound said:


> I had no idea these even existed. Any place online where they can be purchased?


 
  
 Seems to be a tougher question than I'd initially thought it to be. I reside in Portugal and our local iFi dealer has those in stock, they have been for quite a while and don't seem to be going anywhere. On the other hand I've looked through pretty much every online store I'm familiar with (mostly in the UK and US) that sells iFi products and not a single one has the tubes for sale, neither do any of the 4 Amazon branches I checked.
  
 So strange. I don't think our local dealer sells internationally but here they are on this page 115€ for the matched pair.


----------



## Mediahound

bluesaint said:


> Yes the 75 HG's were incredible as it does everything well.  But I actually preferred LISST over 75HG's.  I recall'ed there were others either on this thread or the LISST thread had the same result.  What I didn't like with LISST was end of day still lack tube warmth, but the Ifi NOS 6922 in my setup and to my ears, takes the Best of 75HG and LISST together into a single package.  More importantly the IFI Nos 6922 are quite affordable compared to 75HG.
> 
> Again, as with Tubes, YMMV.


 

 BTW, do you have socket savers under those? Or do the iFi tubes sit up that high as is?


----------



## Mediahound

vigrith said:


> Seems to be a tougher question than I'd initially thought it to be. I reside in Portugal and our local iFi dealer has those in stock, they have been for quite a while and don't seem to be going anywhere. On the other hand I've looked through pretty much every online store I'm familiar with (mostly in the UK and US) that sells iFi products and not a single one has the tubes for sale, neither do any of the 4 Amazon branches I checked.
> 
> So strange. I don't think our local dealer sells internationally but here they are on this page 115€ for the matched pair.


 

 I just found that the iFi dealer about an hour from me has them so I had them shipped to me. Looking forward to hearing them.


----------



## Vigrith

Awesome, do let me know how they sound! Those white socket savers come with the tubes and aren't exactly advertised as "socket savers" but as something different, I forget the exact wording - no idea what they're meant to do different/better than regular ones but think iFi has the info on their site.


----------



## Mediahound

vigrith said:


> Awesome, do let me know how they sound! Those white socket savers come with the tubes and aren't exactly advertised as "socket savers" but as something different, I forget the exact wording - no idea what they're meant to do different/better than regular ones but think iFi has the info on their site.


 

 They convert the GE non 6922 tubes to 6922 tubes. I'm just wondering if that picture he has other socket saves under that.


----------



## Mediahound

BTW, if anyone is looking for these tubes,  I emailed every USA iFi dealer and can tell you which ones have gotten back to me saying they have them. Most say they don't stock them, but some do.


----------



## rnros

grrorr76 said:


> any idea where I could pick up a set that ship internationally , id love to try a pair and hear them for myself.


 

 I've been using two tubes from this family for more than a few months and they are my go-to tubes. And I do have most of the hi-cost $$$ usual suspects.
 With the adapter, these will work with all the Schiit tube amps being in the ~300mA heater filament category. I have all the Schiit tube amps (incl. Lyr1) and use them in all of them.
 At the moment, they have replaced my 50's and 60's Telefunkens/Amperex/Philips/Siemens and my Reflector 6N23Ps. Definitely my favorites in the MJ2.
  
 The two tubes are the Western Electric 396A and the Reflector 6N3P-E. I have used multiple production years of each with excellent consistency. They are close, like them both very much, in a pinch I would choose the Reflector 6N3P-E. They both have superb dynamics, clarity, and detail with good extension top and bottom. If you want more info, PM me, or 'quote' me here and I'll respond accordingly.
  
 From Baldr:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/784471/what-a-long-strange-trip-its-been-robert-hunter/540#post_12457606
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/619910/schiit-valhalla-tube-rolling-thread/480#post_12466041
  
 The adapter I have used:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/191636111735?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 The Reflector 6N3P-E is now my constant use tube. A previous information post:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/9300#post_12570846
  
 Cost: Adapters: $15/pair. Western Electric 396A: ~$50 each. Reflector 6N3P-E: Matched pair -~$20/pair; NOS in sealed original box about $2 depending on quantity.
 Don't the let the current 'surplus' cost of the REFL 6N3P-E mislead you, this is one of the finest tubes available in this class. It is completely ignored at the moment.
  
 Edit:
 Recommended eBay Sellers with NOS/NIB:
 http://www.ebay.com/usr/nixiestore        http://www.ebay.com/usr/uralspirit        http://www.ebay.com/usr/world-ua
  
 For NOS matched pairs:
 http://www.ebay.com/usr/orpheus_2005
  
*NOTE: I am only referring to the REFL 6N3P-E.*
 Also I'm sure with additional interest there will be more sellers offering these and matching pairs.
 For those interested, production years auditioned and/or burning: 74/75/77/79/81/83/86/87.


----------



## Mediahound

rnros said:


> I've been using two tubes from this family for more than a few months and they are my go-to tubes. And I do have most of the hi-cost $$$ usual suspects.
> With the adapter, these will work with all the Schiit tube amps being in the ~300mA heater filament category. I have all the Schiit tube amps (incl. Lyr1) and use them in all of them.
> At the moment, they have replaced my 50's and 60's Telefunkens/Amperex/Philips/Siemens and my Reflector 6N23Ps. Definitely my favorites in the MJ2.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the info. What are the main differences in the sound between the Western Electric 396A and Reflector 6N3P-E ?


----------



## rnros

mediahound said:


> Thanks for the info. What are the main differences in the sound between the Western Electric 396A and Reflector 6N3P-E ?


 

 The REFL 6N3P-E has a little less energy/diffusion in the upper bass/lower mids than the best REFL 6N23P, if you know that tube (one of my favorites).
  
 The WE 396A has less emphasis still in the upper bass/lower mids, which is not to say anyone would find it lacking in that range.
  
 They both have extended, accurate bass, with as much impact as I've heard in any tube, gorgeous mids, and extended sweet highs. Both are natural and dynamic.
 And of course, both with super 3D ambient capabilities, or they wouldn't be in this discussion.
  
 Check my equipment list to see what I'm using. If interested, I can also list some of the tubes I in my collection and experience.
  
 I have 6 or 8 of the 396As and they all seem to be fine, no noise, no microphonics. The RFL 6N3P-E is one of the best built tubes I've come across, difficult to find a noisy or microphonic tube.


----------



## Mediahound

On another topic, I'm still confused as to if it's better to run high or low gain on the MJ2 (with HD800s)? On low gain, I still have plenty to go on the volume pot so should I stay there?


----------



## Vigrith

mediahound said:


> They convert the GE non 6922 tubes to 6922 tubes. I'm just wondering if that picture he has other socket saves under that.


 
  
 Oh whoops, my misunderstanding.
  


mediahound said:


> On another topic, I'm still confused as to if it's better to run high or low gain on the MJ2 (with HD800s)? On low gain, I still have plenty to go on the volume pot so should I stay there?


 
  
 I personally run low gain on all my amps with the option to, I might be "wrong" but I can't tell a difference asides volume, even with HD800s 300-600ohm Beyers, etc. I wonder why that is some times, I'm admittedly a quite listener and always have been but with both my DAC volume (or like Schiit ones no knob to begin with) as well Tidal HiFi maxed if I go anywhere near like 10 o'clock on any of my good amps with standard songs playing that are not super loud nor too quiet I feel like the headphone drivers and/or my ears will explode at any moment. Easier to have more pot to work with on low rather than high, feels weird to have an amp playing loudly at like 6 o'clock.
  
 I guess experiences differ because I just use Tidal, someone that's listening to a regular CD, vinyl or just another player like F2K or JRiver probably handles volume levels differently than I - wouldn't know, I'm too new to the hobby to have any experience with anything but computer audio.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Just bought k1000. Between them and he6, I may need to upgrade to rag or something else. If only rag had tubes...but Jason said that will never happen.


----------



## Mediahound

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Just bought k1000. Between them and he6, I may need to upgrade to rag or something else. If only rag had tubes...but Jason said that will never happen.


 

 I haven't heard the combo, but I think you will be fine, as far as I can tell. The K1000 specs show a min of 100mW and max 1W at 120Ohms. The MJ2 should have plenty of power for them, especially balanced.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

The HE6 pairing is profoundly ok. It's not as musical or transparent as the WA5, WA22-SE, and others. I'm disappointed I couldn't hear rag at the SF meet, but have heard repeatedly that the DNA Stratus drives K1000 and HE6 better than either one. If one comes used, I might consider it, but the Woo stuff is 5k+, which is disappointingly unaffordable.


----------



## Vigrith

bosiemoncrieff said:


> The HE6 pairing is profoundly ok. It's not as musical or transparent as the WA5, WA22-SE, and others. I'm disappointed I couldn't hear rag at the SF meet, but have heard repeatedly that the DNA Stratus drives K1000 and HE6 better than either one. If one comes used, I might consider it, but the Woo stuff is 5k+, which is disappointingly unaffordable.


 
  
 I think Paulie just posted up his kitted out Stratus for sale (somehow!) on the classifieds section a couple hours ago. Beautiful amp, incredibly good and for a very reasonable price especially considering the wait time for Donald to build one I up to like 6+ months right now far as I'm aware. Super expensive still obviously compared to the MJ2 but all things considered and compared to the price the WA5 (LE or otherwise) go for that's a different story.
  
 The Stratus is definitely special, personally I'm about as uninterested in the Rag as can be even though I love Schiit as a company and most their products. Both due to my dislike of solid state over $1k compared to equally priced tube amps as well as the fact my speakers (Devialet Phantom) have their amp built in so that function of the Rag would be useless to me.


----------



## Mediahound

bluesaint said:


> Yes the 75 HG's were incredible as it does everything well.  But I actually preferred LISST over 75HG's.  I recall'ed there were others either on this thread or the LISST thread had the same result.  What I didn't like with LISST was end of day still lack tube warmth, but the Ifi NOS 6922 in my setup and to my ears, takes the Best of 75HG and LISST together into a single package.  More importantly the IFI Nos 6922 are quite affordable compared to 75HG.
> 
> Again, as with Tubes, YMMV.


 

 I received this today and the hype is real.   These sound really nice for the price. Seems like iFi knows what they're doing.
  
 They're probably not fully burned in yet but so far, they're less dark than my Amperex Orange Globes and seem to resolve all the details a bit better, without being at all strident.


----------



## rmoody

mediahound said:


> I received this today and the hype is real.   These sound really nice for the price. Seems like iFi knows what they're doing.
> 
> They're probably not fully burned in yet but so far, they're less dark than my Amperex Orange Globes and seem to resolve all the details a bit better, without being at all strident.


 
 I that this?
  
 http://www.musicdirect.com/p-368468-ifi-nos-5670-6922-vacuum-tubes-pr.aspx


----------



## Mediahound

rmoody said:


> I that this?
> 
> http://www.musicdirect.com/p-368468-ifi-nos-5670-6922-vacuum-tubes-pr.aspx


 

 Yep, that's them. Music Direct does not have them in stock currently however I emailed several iFi dealers so PM if you want to know a few where they are in stock.


----------



## bluesaint

mediahound said:


> I received this today and the hype is real.   These sound really nice for the price. Seems like iFi knows what they're doing.
> 
> They're probably not fully burned in yet but so far, they're less dark than my Amperex Orange Globes and seem to resolve all the details a bit better, without being at all strident.


 
 They opened up quite a bit more for me at  ~40-50hrs.  Specifically soundstage opened up a bit more, and better dynamics.


----------



## Mediahound

bluesaint said:


> They opened up quite a bit more for me at  ~40-50hrs.  Specifically soundstage opened up a bit more, and better dynamics.


 

 Thanks. They're really pretty awesome already


----------



## FLTWS

I just ordered a pair to add to my collection.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

What're the American dealers that have those tubes? The price is definitely right.


----------



## Mediahound

bosiemoncrieff said:


> What're the American dealers that have those tubes? The price is definitely right.


 

 AudioVision in SF has them. ( http://www.audiovisionsf.com ) That's where I got mine a few days ago. 
  
 I think you'll like them more than the Orange Globes. Wider soundstage, better micro detail retrieval without sacrificing any low or mids as far as I can tell. At least that has been my experience thusfar with them.
  
 If you prefer to order them elsewhere, PM me and I'll give you the list of the dealers that replied saying they have them.


----------



## Muadibe

Hello,
  
 Thanks for a great thread to sort through all the Tubes for the Schiit Mjolir2.
  
 I bought the *Philips Miniwatt SQ, *for my Schiilt Mjolnir 2 to upgrade from the stock 6bz7. I plugged them in and warmed up the Amp for 3 hours.

 When I listened with my Audeze LCD-3 and my Grado 325e, I noticed unusually low gain. I hit the switch on the Mj2 to switch gain profile and very little improvement. Can someone please tell me if these are a good match for the Schiit Mjolnir 2?
  
 What is the spec that I should be looking at to avoid this problem on any other tubes that I buy. And finally, is there a list of preferred tubes for Mjolnir 2 users that recommends from actual listening experience.
  
 I am rather new to tube rolling and I would like to feel more confident before I start spending $100+ for tubes. Much appreciated. Thanks


----------



## tvnosaint

Sounds like you got some old used tubes. Low power output. Anything that works in the lyr2 should work in the mj2 . There is a compatibility chart in the lyr tube roller thread. I've got quite a few pairs of miniwatts and none of them are weak. The weakest of them are more open and louder than the stock tubes.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

My prayer, with these new tubes, is that mj2 will at least be acceptable for 800/k1000/he6. Asking an amp to do all three is a borderline impossible challenge. Maybe the new wa22se could, but that's 5.5k.


----------



## Muadibe

Thanks.
  
 I am being told by the seller that they are not compatible. He is refunding my money.
  
 I have already ordered a replacement pair from iFi based on recommendations here.


----------



## McClelland

I've been thinking that I would explore active near field speakers at a later point, curious about a range of options including the JBL LSR 305, Adams a5x, KRK Rokit 5 G3, KRK VXT4 and 6, Genelec 8020, Yamaha MSP7 and HS50M, ELAC 403, M-Audio M3-8. but I decided again that life is too short and jumped in on the low end of options I've been considering.   I recently set up a pair of the JBL LSR 305's on isoacoustic desktops stands along with the JBL LSR310s powered sub running out of the MJ2/Gumby combo.  I'm amazed at how clean and spacious the sound is, sitting at the desk and how the whole embrace of the sound lifted when I got the sub dialed in.  I'm pretty sure they would sound thin compared to more expensive alternatives, but I'm delighted with how good the whole set up sounds running with Amperex tubes.   And they really are near field.  Approaching the door into the studio, about 6-8 feet from my desk chair when I've left them playing, I get hardly a clue about how big they will sound once I sit down in the sweet spot.  They create a very small space right around my desk chair that sounds a lot like my HD800 cans with everything pushed forward rather than inside my head.  I love having the opportunity to listen with both my headphones and the speakers and to listen to the headphones while playing just the sub.  It's very nice.


----------



## Ttenu

Reporting in with thermal dissipation strategy. Two steps. Plus a bonus step.
  
 1) Provide airflow under the unit. I'm using Herbie's Big Tall Tenderfoot - $50 for three, $66 for four.
  
 2) Lift tubes out of the chassis. I've recently obtained a pair of Tubemonger NOVIB Socket Savers - $56 for a pair.
  
 3) Bonus step - celing fan in room. Even a slight breeze at the lowest setting makes a significant difference by subtly circulating air in the room.
  
 1 and 2 are must-haves for me that I would recommend to everyone. The unit is warm to the touch, not hot. More comfortable to use and perhaps a longer lifespan for unit.
  
 And, it looks RADICAL! Happy exposed tubes! http://imgur.com/a/Vgji5
  
 Probably my imagination, but I think it sounds better, too. Feels like I'm hearing the benefits of additional isolation. Audiophile words incoming... almost feels "dry" like there's less smearing of sounds. More like an anechoic chamber than before, both on 'phones and nearfield.


----------



## Mediahound

Yeah, raising the tubes up definitely makes the chassis less hot.


----------



## zive

ttenu said:


> ...
> 1) Provide airflow under the unit. I'm using Herbie's Big Tall Tenderfoot - $50 for three, $66 for four.
> ...


 
 I would recommend picking up a four pack of Vibrapods (model 2) from Amazon. At $24 for a four pack they are much less expensive and based on others' reviews provide comparable vibration/clearance benefits. If you want to step up from there (literally in terms of clearance) you can always add in the Vibrapod cones. A set of cones and pods can be had for less than the cost of four "Tenderfeet".
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Mediahound

zive said:


> I would recommend picking up a four pack of Vibrapods (model 2) from Amazon. At $24 for a four pack they are much less expensive and based on others' reviews provide comparable vibration/clearance benefits. If you want to step up from there (literally in terms of clearance) you can always add in the Vibrapod cones. A set of cones and pods can be had for less than the cost of four "Tenderfeet".
> 
> Cheers.


 

 Do you remove the stock feet first and then put those on, or do they sit over the stock feet?


----------



## FLTWS

mediahound said:


> Do you remove the stock feet first and then put those on, or do they sit over the stock feet?


 
  
 I'm using the tall tenderfeet, not for vibration control but just to get more air circulation under the unit and in conjunction with tube lifters and air conditioning I figure heat dissipation will be adequate as it appears that the entire chassis acts like a giant heat sink, by design, to expose a larger metal surface to the surrounding air instead of just the usual heat sinks of any solid state devices inside the case. I used a bit of double sided scotch tape on each one and placed them next to but inside of the stock feet.
  
 I wasn't certain if these stock feet were sheet metal screws or nuts with bolts and washers on the inside that could go rattling around if unscrewed. Usually not a good thing to have loose metal pieces parts rolling around and coming to rest against electrically live circuitry when the power switch is thrown on. I also didn't want to have to remove the screws from the back panel to disassemble the unit if the screws served some additional purpose other than to just hold on the feet, unlikely, but why screw with fate!
  
 The tape holds very well and I've lifted (not slid) and moved the unit many times without a foot dropping off. The material used in the tenderfoot is alleged to not mar or stick permanently to any metal finish. Some alcohol should remove any tape residue if I ever needed to, if not, a drop of acetone should do the trick. 
  
 YMMV


----------



## zive

Yes, that's what I did. I saved the screws and feet in a separate bag and used the resulting holes as a guide for where to apply the new feet.
  
 Sonically I noticed the greatest difference with these on my turntable. That said, having bought socket savers to cool my tubes I wanted to cool the rest of my MJ2 so I picked up another pair of the MJ2 mostly for thermal reasons (reducing vibration when walking around couldn't hurt either).
  
 I hope that helps.


----------



## zive

While on the topic of MJ2 accessories I thought I would mention a storage option I have enjoyed for my MJ2 tubes. The Pelican 1120 case is a nearly bulletproof way of organizing and storing up to four sets of tubes. The cases are pretty cheap and match well with those who already own LCD series headphones from Audeze. 
  
 Cheers.


----------



## FLTWS

zive said:


> While on the topic of MJ2 accessories I thought I would mention a storage option I have enjoyed for my MJ2 tubes. The Pelican 1120 case is a nearly bulletproof way of organizing and storing up to four sets of tubes. The cases are pretty cheap and match well with those who already own LCD series headphones from Audeze.
> 
> Cheers.


 
  
  
 An elegant solution.


----------



## FLTWS

Well, here's a new twist:
  
 As previously stated I use Tall Tenderfeet and Tube Lifters with the MJ2.
  
 I've been evaluating a pair of HD800's the past week with the stock SE cable, running Amperex 7308 Gold Pins for the entire time until this past Sunday when I switched to LISST's at the end of the day for the Monday session, and burned them in for 24 hours. When I removed the 7308's I also pulled the tube lifters and didn't use them with the LISST's which ran as hot as the 7308's both to the touch directly, and the volume knob.
  
 I shipped the 800 back Tuesday and for giggles and kicks I pulled the LISST's and put in a new pair of Telefunken E88C/6922 "without" the tube lifters. I've had them burning in all day and I swear they are much cooler than either the 7308's (the grill, not the tube itself) or LISST's to the touch. I don't understand how that might be and I will be checking in the future as I roll in and roll out (just ordered some difference 6922 family types to play with). Has anyone ever noticed different amounts of heat being generated depending on the tube type? Especially given that I removed the tube lifters this result seems strange and counter intuitive.


----------



## rnros

> Has anyone ever noticed different amounts of heat being generated depending on the tube type? Especially given that I removed the tube lifters this result seems strange and counter intuitive.


 
 Yes, I have. Never paid much attention to it since it was always within the range of reasonable. (Can't say that it was any particular tube type.)
  
 However, more recently I had a pair of NOS on the burn and the increase in temperature was enough that I paid attention to it. It did settle down to a normal range again, and I since I didn't note it in my tube burn log, I don't recall which tube it was. (I play with a lot of different tube pairs.) Although can't say I was surprised since I have noted output voltage fluctuations on some pairs during the initial burn (~50hrs).
  
 Your post caught my attention since at the moment I'm listening to a pair with only a few hours on them and they are running a bit hot! But they sound so good...Maybe it's the extra heat ).
 Haven't found rhyme or reason to the occurrence yet, although I can say that none of the tubes I have with substantial hours of use have any noticeable high temperature anomaly.
  
 Different tube designations do have slightly different power ratings, even within the same family, but I don't think those numbers are sufficient to cause anything noticeable. Usually my Schiit amps run warm and never hot, so much so that I don't bother with socket savers to raise tubes. (I do use some tubes that do require adapter sockets.)


----------



## FLTWS

Thanks for the feedback mros.


----------



## Jiexi

Is there an easy way to get tube monger socket savers out without having to take off the case of the MJ2?


----------



## gto88

zive said:


> While on the topic of MJ2 accessories I thought I would mention a storage option I have enjoyed for my MJ2 tubes. The Pelican 1120 case is a nearly bulletproof way of organizing and storing up to four sets of tubes. The cases are pretty cheap and match well with those who already own LCD series headphones from Audeze.
> 
> Cheers.


 
 Look really nice, did you cut the form for tubes? I don't think it comes pre-cut.
 Is it easy to cut to the shape?


----------



## Mediahound

jiexi said:


> Is there an easy way to get tube monger socket savers out without having to take off the case of the MJ2?


 

 Easy way? Nope.
  
 Some have had success wrapping a wire around it, I've taken packing tape and made a little circle around them adhesive side in, and worked them out that way. It's a PITA though so you are probably better off just leaving them in there and including them whenever you sell the amp to someone.


----------



## bluesaint

mediahound said:


> Easy way? Nope.
> 
> Some have had success wrapping a wire around it, I've taken packing tape and made a little circle around them adhesive side in, and worked them out that way. It's a PITA though so you are probably better off just leaving them in there and including them whenever you sell the amp to someone.


 
 I just use small tweezers and added rubber tip, then fish it out .


----------



## zive

Thanks.
  
 It comes with a solid foam block that is perforated into 1cm cubes of foam (Pelican calls it Pick N Pluck foam). All I had to do was arrange the tubes on top of the foam to see which cubes I would need to remove, then I simply plucked out the foam blocks by hand to give me the shapes I needed. All told it took me about 20 minutes to make the shapes, and was very straight-forward.
  
 Beside the aesthetics of the pelican case I enjoy the peace of mind knowing that my tubes are well protected and no longer laying around in the loose paper boxes they come shipped in. 
  
 I hope that helps, cheers!


----------



## FLTWS

I noticed that whenever I changed out a tube the socket saver had a tendency to come with the tube a bit but not fully. I then discovered that if I don't allow the tubes to cool down all the way to room temperature before removing, the heat keeps both the tubes metal pins and the pin receptacles in the Tubemongers expanded against each other a bit. I use dirt cheap, powder free, disposable yet re-usable in this case,surgical gloves which are very ""grippy" on the glass tube and "gently" rock and rotate both the tube and socket saver. Once one is removed you can slip your finger in to help remove the remaining one. I suspect that one of the metal cleaning/lubricating fluids for the pins and sockets might make the overall process easier.
  
 One of the truly knowledgeable tube guru's here on Head-Fi posted a while back to place a length of dental floss, (un-waxed probably would be best to keep any heat melted goop off the socket and tubes) or a sturdy gauge sewing thread, under the socket saver before installing, using enough length on each tail end to grab and pull up on. Brilliant in its simplicity, but maybe not so aesthetically pleasing.
  
 I wish Schiit had designed the cage area as removable, but of course that would require extra cost to do it properly, might have an effect on the sturdiness/rigidity of the over design of the case, and the grills contact points could, I guess, become a spot where subtle vibration affects could be induced to the case. A cubed cage sitting on top could also induce issues and make proper shipping packaging a pita to deal with. A larger opening for the tubes could be a help.
  
 And how to attach the removable grill? Nuts and washers are out. A tack-welded threaded washer? Threaded holes in the case? Magnets? Some sort of pressure fitted male to female metal work. They all have some big drawbacks to my way of thinking.
  
 A tool specific to this task would be the best solution.
  
 I'm going to continue without the socket savers for a while just too see how it goes, the less points of contact in a circuit the better, right?
  
 The tubes are better protected down in the case (kinda' reminds me of "Whack-a-Mole"). And, at $300.00 to $500.00 a pair for some top shelf, matched and massaged tubes, you want to protect them at all cost..


----------



## Mediahound

Yeah, had I to do it all over again, I probably wouldn't even use socket savers although it does make tube rolling way easier, and also makes the amp run cooler. I plan to include them and leave them in the amp if I ever sell it.


----------



## FLTWS

I had the socket savers purchased and in-house before I got the MJ2 delivered so I haven't operated the unit without them until now. Others report no sonic difference with or without the tube lifters.
  
 The more I think about it, if the openings in the cage were 1/2 inch wider in diameter we might not even be discussing this matter. I think the heat would dissipate better and the difficulty in aligning, inserting and pulling of the tubes would be solved. But, I'm sure the Schiit guys thought about all this and there may be good reasons we don't know about as to why it is the way it is.
  
 Of course playing tube roulette several times a day will put wear and tear on the sockets and tube pins so in that case the lifters are a big plus and they are just not that costly compared to having to replace a socket or a damaged tube. I would generally not change out any tubes more than once a day and actually in the 2 months I've had the MJ2 I've only made changes on 5 occasions.


----------



## Jiexi

socket saver came out while rolling the tubes. That was easy.


----------



## ToddRaymond

I know you've all been dying to hear this:  I've decided save some cash for now and just go back to the original Mjolnir for now.  If anyone needs some '75 HGs, and '74 Reflektors (which I picked up from rb2013, but haven't used at all), I've got 'em on Audio Mart.  I guess I could probably 'LISST' 'em on here too.  Though, I wonder if I should maybe hang onto 'em in case Schiit releases a sweet two channel preamp soon that uses 6DJ8/6922/etc. tubes...


----------



## FLTWS

Just a bit of follow up on tube rolling without the "lifters'. The disposable / re-useable, vinyl, powder free gloves worked perfectly. "Grippy" enough to pull and push the tubes / LISST's almost straight up and down. Cost? $2.29 for a box of 50 at the supermarket. That number should last longer than I will.


----------



## ToddRaymond

On the other hand....
  
 I'm debating using a Mjolnir not just as a headphone amp, but as a preamp to feed a pair of Focal SM9s.  With a forthcoming Yggdrasil feeding all of this, I imagine that setup would have the potential to be absolutely unreal for the price.  Perhaps the tubes in the Mjolnir 2 will add some life/musicality/tonal shadings to what could potentially be an otherwise dry/sterile sound with the SM9s.


----------



## McClelland

turdski said:


> On the other hand....
> 
> I'm debating using a Mjolnir not just as a headphone amp, but as a preamp to feed a pair of Focal SM9s.  With a forthcoming Yggdrasil feeding all of this, I imagine that setup would have the potential to be absolutely unreal for the price.  Perhaps the tubes in the Mjolnir 2 will add some life/musicality/tonal shadings to what could potentially be an otherwise dry/sterile sound with the SM9s.


 
 Judging by how good the low end of powered speakers sounds, I'm thinking the the MJ2/Focals would be outstanding.  I am using my Gumby/MJ2 to drive JBL305s and a 310 sub.  They are crisp and clean and could be harsh but the MJ2/Amperex tubes have made for a great combo to start with.  Because I thought the balanced HP output made a significant difference with my HPs I've kept to a balanced connection for the speakers and suspect that helps, too.


----------



## blance44

turdski said:


> On the other hand....
> 
> I'm debating using a Mjolnir not just as a headphone amp, but as a preamp to feed a pair of Focal SM9s.  With a forthcoming Yggdrasil feeding all of this, I imagine that setup would have the potential to be absolutely unreal for the price.  Perhaps the tubes in the Mjolnir 2 will add some life/musicality/tonal shadings to what could potentially be an otherwise dry/sterile sound with the SM9s.


 
 I'm using the mj2 as a preamp for the psi a21's and it's outstanding! The tubes have an amazing effect on the soundstage that solid state pre's just can't match.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

has anyone used the Mjolnir 2 as a preamp for the rag?


----------



## MattTCG

bosiemoncrieff said:


> has anyone used the Mjolnir 2 as a preamp for the rag?


 
  
 Using the mjo2 as pre for my Questyle dual mono stack. It's excellent!! Adds a beautiful tube wetness to the signature and also allows me to control the volume with precision.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Holy heck K1000 sounds amazing with Mjolnir 2 (and serious EQ to boost bass and dampen treble). Jason, you crazy genius. How am I getting this sound out of them for under 1k?!


----------



## ToddRaymond

Thanks McClelland!  Good to know.
  
  

  


blance44 said:


> I'm using the mj2 as a preamp for the psi a21's and it's outstanding! The tubes have an amazing effect on the soundstage that solid state pre's just can't match.


 

 Also good to know, thank-you!  Those PSI's look like an interesting contender as well.  I know this thread isn't really the place for this, but could you please briefly comment on the nature of your setup?  Are you using them at a desk, or as a main speaker/front/two channel replacement?  The latter would the application I'd be using any potential powered monitors in.  For now I'm in an apartment, but next year we'll have a larger space once we move into a house.  (In other words, the a21s:  Mid-field friendly, or just near-frield only?)


----------



## ufospls2

This is a silly question. If you use the single ended input of the Mjolnir 2, does it convert it in the amp to a balanced signal so you can use the balanced headphone output? Or can you only use the single ended output? With my Auralic Taurus, the single ended input is able to be used as a balanced output. Just wondering if it is the same with the Mjolnir 2.


----------



## rmoody

ufospls2 said:


> This is a silly question. If you use the single ended input of the Mjolnir 2, does it convert it in the amp to a balanced signal so you can use the balanced headphone output? Or can you only use the single ended output? With my Auralic Taurus, the single ended input is able to be used as a balanced output. Just wondering if it is the same with the Mjolnir 2.


 

 MJ2 will convert either way. SE to Balanced, Balanced to SE.


----------



## ufospls2

rmoody said:


> MJ2 will convert either way. SE to Balanced, Balanced to SE.


 
 Thought so. Thanks for the answer.


----------



## blance44

turdski said:


> Also good to know, thank-you!  Those PSI's look like an interesting contender as well.  I know this thread isn't really the place for this, but could you please briefly comment on the nature of your setup?  Are you using them at a desk, or as a main speaker/front/two channel replacement?  The latter would the application I'd be using any potential powered monitors in.  For now I'm in an apartment, but next year we'll have a larger space once we move into a house.  (In other words, the a21s:  Mid-field friendly, or just near-frield only?)


 
 My setup isn't particular traditional in the fact that it's a mix of both. The distance of the speakers are near field but they're my main speakers that I use with my tv. I have only one chair at the center of my room and I have the tv and speakers roughly 7 feet away from me.
  
 They do perform very well as mid field speakers even though I personally prefer them to be near field. I can't say enough good things about powered monitors for the money. I bought my pair for $5k and they easily compete with speaker and amp combos in the $25k price range because of how well designed they are.


----------



## Mediahound

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Holy heck K1000 sounds amazing with Mjolnir 2 (and serious EQ to boost bass and dampen treble). Jason, you crazy genius. How am I getting this sound out of them for under 1k?!


 

 This is good to know. So the MJ2 drives them well?


----------



## gto88

mediahound said:


> This is good to know. So the MJ2 drives them well?


 
 well, he used MJ2 as pre-amp, does it count?


----------



## Mediahound

gto88 said:


> well, he used MJ2 as pre-amp, does it count?


 

 Preamp to what? It sounds like he just used the MJ2 to drive the K1000.


----------



## gto88

Oops, you are right, I messed up the posts with this one by MattTCG:
 > Using the mjo2 as pre for my Questyle dual mono stack;


----------



## ufospls2

Heard the Mjolnir 2 on Monday, and sadly was really disappointed by it. It was muddy, and undefined. One positive was it was nice and warm.  This was with the stock tubes installed. Can it be massively different with tube rolling I wonder? What do you guys think?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I love it with the '68 orange globes. I haven't tried K1000 with the stock tubes, and I haven't listened to the LISST since like June, because they're so good. At some point I'll get the $100 tubes that the thread was raving about a few pages back.
  
 I would call the K1000 pairing impressive without being the final word. Just as the HE-6 connoisseurs will moan about nothing short of a 5k power amp being able to "truly" communicate what they're capable of, the K1000 really would benefit from, say, the WA5. (I WISH I had heard them with the WA22SE in July!) However, on high gain, with a full orchestra playing, MJ2 can drive them to ear-bleeding levels, even with the cups fully swiveled out. You can read my ongoing HD800/K1000 comparison on the HD800 thread (my opera installment is taking awhile, go figure), but my bottom line is that I expected to be counting down the days till I pulled the trigger on Rag, but I find myself without upgrade fever. It gets you a good distance, I'll say 80%, maybe 85%, for less than 20% of the flagship Woo toys. Yggy—for sure. But Rag...eh, not right now.


----------



## bluesaint

ufospls2 said:


> Heard the Mjolnir 2 on Monday, and sadly was really disappointed by it. It was muddy, and undefined. One positive was it was nice and warm.  This was with the stock tubes installed. Can it be massively different with tube rolling I wonder? What do you guys think?


 
 Depends on your headphones. With HD800 for example, my ears bleed from overly bright with say GoldLion tubes, and Tesla, Amprex was overly warm.  Stock Tubes sucks at everything.  The tube I started the hype with is the Ifi NOS 6922 that to me is good for everything.


----------



## Mediahound

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I love it with the '68 orange globes. I haven't tried K1000 with the stock tubes, and I haven't listened to the LISST since like June, because they're so good. At some point I'll get the $100 tubes that the thread was raving about a few pages back.
> 
> I would call the K1000 pairing impressive without being the final word. Just as the HE-6 connoisseurs will moan about nothing short of a 5k power amp being able to "truly" communicate what they're capable of, the K1000 really would benefit from, say, the WA5. (I WISH I had heard them with the WA22SE in July!) However, on high gain, with a full orchestra playing, MJ2 can drive them to ear-bleeding levels, even with the cups fully swiveled out. You can read my ongoing HD800/K1000 comparison on the HD800 thread (my opera installment is taking awhile, go figure), but my bottom line is that I expected to be counting down the days till I pulled the trigger on Rag, but I find myself without upgrade fever. It gets you a good distance, I'll say 80%, maybe 85%, for less than 20% of the flagship Woo toys. Yggy—for sure. But Rag...eh, not right now.


 

 Cool, thanks for the report on that. 
  
 I like the orange globes a lot (they were my favorite and only tubes I kept going back to for like 3 years), but can tell you the iFi tubes are a step above.


----------



## FLTWS

mediahound said:


> Cool, thanks for the report on that.
> 
> I like the orange globes a lot (they were my favorite and only tubes I kept going back to for like 3 years), but can tell you the iFi tubes are a step above.


 
  
 You just reminded me, I ordered the IFi's last month, 7/20, still haven't arrived.


----------



## Argo Duck

ufospls2 said:


> Heard the Mjolnir 2 on Monday, and sadly was really disappointed by it. It was muddy, and undefined. One positive was it was nice and warm.  This was with the stock tubes installed. Can it be massively different with tube rolling I wonder? What do you guys think?




I haven't heard the Mj2 but I used to own Lyr - and now two Decware tube amps. Without question all 3 can sound vastly different with tube rolling. From posts in this thread, I'd say Mj2 is the same.

Stock tubes rarely show an amp at its best


----------



## tjl5709

fltws said:


> You just reminded me, I ordered the IFi's last month, 7/20, still haven't arrived.


 

 It took quite awhile for them to arrive. Sounding pretty good.


----------



## tjl5709

ufospls2 said:


> Heard the Mjolnir 2 on Monday, and sadly was really disappointed by it. It was muddy, and undefined. One positive was it was nice and warm.  This was with the stock tubes installed. Can it be massively different with tube rolling I wonder? What do you guys think?


 
  
 Stock tubes are junk. Fed with a good digital signal into a good dac, and with some nice NOS tubes, it sounds just fine.


----------



## FLTWS

ufospls2 said:


> Heard the Mjolnir 2 on Monday, and sadly was really disappointed by it. It was muddy, and undefined. One positive was it was nice and warm.  This was with the stock tubes installed. Can it be massively different with tube rolling I wonder? What do you guys think?


 
  
 Yes, tubes make a difference, so do the LISST's. I've got 12 matched pairs of 6922 type tubes ranging in price from $40.00 to $300.00 a pair, some purchased 15 years ago and were NOS at that time. But tube rolling is going to take a commitment of time and dedication to sort out what you prefer. Differences don't always present themselves in a brief listening session even if your not tube (or cable) rolling. Do you want to invest the time and the money to find out? It's entirely possible that one could prefer a $60.00 pair of tubes to a $350.00 a pair. I like variety and options but try to keep in mind the "diminishing returns" business. Sometimes you gotta' take a chance with your wallet as well, how deep do you want to go? And understand that a $20.00 battle of wine can taste better than a $100.00 bottle.
  
 How did you listen to the MJ2, how many hours on the tubes burn in wise? In your home with your own equipment?  Over a few days with a variety of your favorite source material and what format of source material?
  
 I listened to HD800's very briefly at an audio retailers with a $5,000 headphone amp and some music I was very familiar with (like over 30 years ago and on vinyl and then CD) but in one of the downloadable formats (none of which I use, cd's only in my case). The sound was horrendous, I could not believe anyone one would consider it listenable, regardless of the very high dollar investment in the equipment used.
  
 A few weeks later I auditioned the HD800 with all of my equipment in my home for a full week with stock tubes and some of those much older variants I had, and over 24 hours total ear time. Complete 180 degrees on my original, brief, impression of the HD800. I've since rolled tubes and the LISST's and with the cable options I have and find I can fine tune the sound to my liking. Some changes are very subtle, some not so subtle, sometimes I hear no difference.
  
 Yes, I'm a bit of a Schiit-head as my signature indicates. But, I would never say it's the right gear for anyone else. The fact that Schiit is one of the few that offers 15 days no hassle return for in-home auditioning, a 5 years warranty, that (I felt) offered good value / technology for my money, and that was aesthetically appealing to me and gave me sound(s) based on the options I have in tubes and cabling options that I am very pleased with, has me convinced. But you need to put in the time and listen for yourself. I have no doubt that other gear out there, some of which I've listened to (but I can't evaluate them all especially in my system), will sound different, some better, some worse, some no difference. Some I will perceive as better or worse or the same value for my dollar as well. That goes along the territory in this hobby. And sometimes you just have to stop cutting bait and actually go fishing.
  
 I was a dedicated SS-o-phobe ever since I built a Dynakit Stereo 120 back in the Mesozoic Era, after having built and used all of their tube options. The only SS gear I ever had a liking for, and owned, was Nelson Pass's early Threshold designs. Back at the start of this year I had to replace my 9 year old DVD/BRD players with an Oppo 105D. The quality of the sound even through Bose QC-15's and the headphone amp in the 105D was so ear-opening it rekindled my HiFi addiction and I fell off the wagon after over a decade of Sony Walkman, car radio, and Bose Home Theater surround for movies. When I wanted high fidelity I'd go "live" as I've done since my mid 20's. There is no "perfect" concert hall sound in the home listening experience. All the equipment in my signature has been purchased since Feb of this year. Given the current state of both tubes and solid state with regard to sound I find they can happily co-habitate in my music listening world and give me listening enjoyment.
  
 I'm of the school that everything "can" make a difference and for a lot of reasons other than special sauces used in the manufacturing process, but YMMV. Putting a system together and grooming it over time, takes time. As they say, it's a marathon, not a sprint. And always, always, always, trust your own ears.
  
 Relax and have fun.


----------



## MattTCG

Glad I read through this thread, again. It reminded me to order the ifi NOS tubes. Any comments on them with the mjo2?


----------



## FLTWS

Funny that, I posted yesterday I forgot about the order I made a month ago with Music Direct. It arrived this morning, very nicely packaged too, haven't seen anything like this before. 8" x 3 1/2 " x 2" white box with a photo of the tube on the top, info on the tube on the bottom of the box, and shrink wrapped, and it was in a larger cardboard box with plenty of brown paper wadded and padding. Neat!
  
 Probably a few weeks before I get around to testing, too much other stuff on my "to do" list between now and the end of Sept.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

argo duck said:


> I haven't heard the Mj2 but I used to own Lyr - and now two Decware tube amps. Without question all 3 can sound vastly different with tube rolling. From posts in this thread, I'd say Mj2 is the same.
> 
> Stock tubes rarely show an amp at its best


 

 Indeed Woo tips their hat about that..."here's an overbuilt, overpriced art object that contains an amplifier...but for even more money we can put good tubes in!"


----------



## rnros

matttcg said:


> Glad I read through this thread, again. It reminded me to order the ifi NOS tubes. Any comments on them with the mjo2?




I've used three of the tubes in the 2C51 family, they all perform well in the MJ2. 
The 5760, 396A, and 6N3P-E.

Good source for the 5760:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5670-W-2C51-New-JAN-G-E-Tube-eq-Western-Electric-396A-/380151677912?hash=item5882ce43d8m9Te0p5jyAPKUc_qy1_PlTA


----------



## tjl5709

rnros said:


> I've used three of the tubes in the 2C51 family, they all perform well in the MJ2.
> The 5760, 396A, and 6N3P-E.
> 
> Good source for the 5760:
> ...


 
 What are you using for an adaptor?


----------



## rnros

tjl5709 said:


> What are you using for an adaptor?




This:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191636111735?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

These are good quality; I have a couple pair that are for rolling, testing, comparing; no issues. Matched sets on the burn or in rotation have dedicated adapters, that way the adapters remain very tight on the tube. The adapter will come out with tube when removing the tube from the Schit amps.


----------



## rmoody

rnros said:


> I've used three of the tubes in the 2C51 family, they all perform well in the MJ2.
> The 5760, 396A, and 6N3P-E.
> 
> Good source for the 5760:
> ...


 

 I'm very interested in trying out a 396A tube in my MJ2. Reading this listing sounds like the 5760 would be a good alternative. Are these usually matched well? I see he doesn't have a matching service. Just wondering how much of a concern that is.


----------



## Mediahound

rmoody said:


> I'm very interested in trying out a 396A tube in my MJ2. Reading this listing sounds like the 5760 would be a good alternative. Are these usually matched well? I see he doesn't have a matching service. Just wondering how much of a concern that is.




I think it should probably be fine. Just make sure to get the right adapter.


----------



## rnros

rmoody said:


> I'm very interested in trying out a 396A tube in my MJ2. Reading this listing sounds like the 5760 would be a good alternative. Are these usually matched well? I see he doesn't have a matching service. Just wondering how much of a concern that is.


 
  
 No that seller for the 5760s is not selling matched tubes, but they are true NOS in original boxes. Really nice tubes. Incredible price.
 In the past I have used used some NOS tubes from the same batch without matching, no apparent harm done. After I starting matching tubes, I tested some of the pairs, found some were already well matched, some were within 10%. Obviously if a tube has noise, choose another. If you notice channel imbalance, switch the tubes channel to channel, if the imbalance follows the tube switch then choose another tube. That process was done with my Lyr and Valhalla, the tubes I have used in my MJ2 were matched pairs. I have countless matched pairs so no need to go there with the MJ2.
  
 There is a seller currently selling some 396As that have test numbers listed, about $65 each. Yes, the WE 396A is a really fine tube. However, if you cannot find a well matched pair, not to worry, go for the Reflector 6N3P-E, in my opinion this is the better tube. I would rank them RE 6N3P-E > WE 396A > GE JAN 5670W.
  
 Let me know if you want the Ebay seller for the 396A. Also, if you want a matched pair of the 5670 and can't find a suitable seller, let me know and I'll send you a matched pair from that seller at the same cost, I'll never use all the ones I have. I think they were $4. Get the adapter first because that will take longer in shipping.


----------



## rmoody

rnros said:


> No that seller for the 5760s is not selling matched tubes, but they are true NOS in original boxes. Really nice tubes. Incredible price.
> In the past I have used used some NOS tubes from the same batch without matching, no apparent harm done. After I starting matching tubes, I tested some of the pairs, found some were already well matched, some were within 10%. Obviously if a tube has noise, choose another. If you notice channel imbalance, switch the tubes channel to channel, if the imbalance follows the tube switch then choose another tube. That process was done with my Lyr and Valhalla, the tubes I have used in my MJ2 were matched pairs. I have countless matched pairs so no need to go there with the MJ2.
> 
> There is a seller currently selling some 396As that have test numbers listed, about $65 each. Yes, the WE 396A is a really fine tube. However, if you cannot find a well matched pair, not to worry, go for the Reflector 6N3P-E, in my opinion this is the better tube. I would rank them RE 6N3P-E > WE 396A > GE JAN 5670W.
> ...


 

 Next dumb question. Does the Reflector require an adapter? If so, is it the same as the 396A?
  
 I've seen the listing for those matched 396As I think, but $65 per is a bit out of my budget at the moment (saving for a new 34" ultra wide screen monitor, upgrade for Gungnir and Ether Cs).


----------



## rnros

rmoody said:


> Next dumb question. Does the Reflector require an adapter? If so, is it the same as the 396A?
> 
> I've seen the listing for those matched 396As I think, but $65 per is a bit out of my budget at the moment (saving for a new 34" ultra wide screen monitor, upgrade for Gungnir and Ether Cs).


 
 Yes, note that the auction includes reference to "6N3" in the title:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/191636111735?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 However, Note that the tube you want is the *6N3P-E* Reflector, there are a few different variations of this tube.


----------



## rmoody

rnros said:


> Yes, note that the auction includes reference to "6N3" in the title:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/191636111735?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> However, Note that the tube you want is the *6N3P-E* Reflector, there are a few different variations of this tube.


 
 Ahh, I missed that, thank you for your patient instruction. I'm getting there. I ordered the adapters. I'm cautiously shopping for some tubes. I will probably post some ebay listings to ask for advice if that's ok.
  
 I really have to get to building something to make turning the MJ2 off and on again easier and a mute box to cut sound off to my studio monitors. Sure wish the MJ2 would mute when headphones are connected. It's honestly my only complaint about this awesome amp.


----------



## Sanlitun

Hey there, I am in the market for a balanced amp as I'm pretty curious about running the HD800s with their balanced cable.
  
 The Mjolnir is an obvious choice as the price is right, and I happen to have some pretty good 6922 tubes hidden away. 
  
 I did have the Lyr and I didn't like it much. I found it to have a hot and fuzzy unresolved sound that always made me think I was missing something.
  
 So the question I have is where does the Mjolnir 2 lie in regards to the old Lyr? Thanks for any comments as there is no easy way for me to demo the Mjolnir 2 short of ordering one.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

rmoody said:


> Ahh, I missed that, thank you for your patient instruction. I'm getting there. I ordered the adapters. I'm cautiously shopping for some tubes. I will probably post some ebay listings to ask for advice if that's ok.
> 
> I really have to get to building something to make turning the MJ2 off and on again easier and a mute box to cut sound off to my studio monitors. Sure wish the MJ2 would mute when headphones are connected. It's honestly my only complaint about this awesome amp.


 

 Hmm, what if your MJ2 SE output went into a SYS, which you could either switch (to the empty channel) or turn down to zero as necessary? I'm not yet in a place where SYS makes sense, but if I ever get into Vinyl, that will change.


----------



## rmoody

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Hmm, what if your MJ2 SE output went into a SYS, which you could either switch (to the empty channel) or turn down to zero as necessary? I'm not yet in a place where SYS makes sense, but if I ever get into Vinyl, that will change.


 

 The consensus was to use the balanced outs to my monitors. I need a balanced SYS, you hear that Jason?!?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

five years later and he's still trying to sell the first run


----------



## rmoody

bosiemoncrieff said:


> five years later and he's still trying to sell the first run


 

 Really? It's been that long. My friend here, bigro, has 2 or 3 SYS. He loves them. I'm sure the slow selling is not exactly helping the idea of a balanced version. I think people are wanting remote, more in/out, balanced. Take Loki, I didn't want it because I would have to manually switch it and take up two USB ports possibly needing two Wryd. Give me a DSD only DAC with automatic switching and USB passthrough with a fair price that checks all the DSD boxes and I'm going to beat down your door. Man I'd love that, sigh.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

rmoody said:


> Really? It's been that long. My friend here, bigro, has 2 or 3 SYS. He loves them. I'm sure the slow selling is not exactly helping the idea of a balanced version. I think people are wanting remote, more in/out, balanced. Take Loki, I didn't want it because I would have to manually switch it and take up two USB ports possibly needing two Wryd. Give me a DSD only DAC with automatic switching and USB passthrough with a fair price that checks all the DSD boxes and I'm going to beat down your door. Man I'd love that, sigh.


 

 lol no i meant the balanced version would likely not sell as well as the single ended.


----------



## rmoody

bosiemoncrieff said:


> lol no i meant the balanced version would likely not sell as well as the single ended.


 

 Well, now you are just taking all the wind out of my sails. I'm going to pout now.


----------



## rmoody

rnros said:


> Yes, note that the auction includes reference to "6N3" in the title:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/191636111735?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> However, Note that the tube you want is the *6N3P-E* Reflector, there are a few different variations of this tube.


 

 Could I ask your opinion of this listing?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/391445908469?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## rnros

rmoody said:


> Could I ask your opinion of this listing?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/391445908469?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT




Excellent. Exactly what you want. Great seller, purchased from him many times. His name is Jacob, responds quickly to questions, and will follow through with what he tells you.

A few additional points on this auction, and others like this:
Always confirm the production year shown in the photo if that's what you want. With this particular tube, the sound is fairly consistent year to year. Can't say that I have a preference.
Auction photo shows a '75. I have seen '74, '75, and '77 show up a few times but much less often than the '79-'89. I know this seller recently had some '74 and '75 come in, so confirm and purchase now if that's what you want. You can always ask what he currently has in stock, it is always changing.

A few notes on this tube:
It is clean and extended at both ends, well controlled without bass bloom or treble glare or sheen. To my ears, it is the most natural, and one of the most accurate... again with my ears and equipment. You may find yourself turning up the volume, a good thing, since there is little distortion to offend the ear.
Also, one of the quietest tubes I've come across, very hard to find a noisy or microphonic tube. After a great start out of the gate, I have found some pairs to fluctuate a bit in the first 50 to 70 hours, but they do return to form.

Enjoy!


----------



## rmoody

rnros said:


> Excellent. Exactly what you want. Great seller, purchased from him many times. His name is Jacob, responds quickly to questions, and will follow through with what he tells you.
> 
> A few additional points on this auction, and others like this:
> Always confirm the production year shown in the photo if that's what you want. With this particular tube, the sound is fairly consistent year to year. Can't say that I have a preference.
> ...


 

 Cool, thanks for the input! My first tube purchase. I need to talk bigro into some adapters for his Vali 2 and/or his Valhala 2 (shouldn't be hard for the Vali 2 at least). Honestly, I should have just gotten one extra adapter to listen to the Vali 2, he keeps that at work.


----------



## rnros

rmoody said:


> Cool, thanks for the input! My first tube purchase. I need to talk bigro into some adapters for his Vali 2 and/or his Valhala 2 (shouldn't be hard for the Vali 2 at least). Honestly, I should have just gotten one extra adapter to listen to the Vali 2, he keeps that at work.


 

 Not too shabby for a first purchase! Only took me several $K worth of 'trophy' and 'HG' tubes to get to this $2 tube as my favorite! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 It's all good. No doubt if I had tried this one first, I would still have tried all the expensive tubes searching for something better... and that would have been worse! Plus now I have a collection of benchmark/reference tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So after you receive the tubes and are wondering why they only cost $2, you can come back and read my thoughts below on price and quality:
 This tube is at this price level for one reason only, no one is using it. Amp designers are not, and there is a general opinion that the 6N3Ps are 'cheap,' so some dismiss it. There are more cheaply made Russian 6N3Ps, but that is the same with the 6922/E88CCs. As the years progressed, parts of the original design/construction were eliminated where this was possible/acceptable. (Check the top mica plate assemblies from late '50s through the '60s.) And then there are also the Chinese 6N3s of lesser quality and reputation.
  
 The 6N3P-E, 6N3P-DR, and 6N3P-I are military spec tubes that never changed their construction at least into the late eighties. Perhaps that's why all production years seem so consistent. I have tried some of the 6N3P-DR and 6N3P-I, but I don't see an appreciable difference in sound. Also they have a higher cost and lower availability.
  
 With the tube in hand, you can see what I mean about the construction/design level. Same size durable glass envelope as the other 6V Russian tubes, with a 'triple-mica plate' assembly (2+1+1), top mica is getter shield and stabilizer, boxed anode plate assembly, nickel/chrome(?) plating on pins... The cathodes even have what I can only guess are vibration dampers on each cathode, top and bottom. A flat metal strip tacked to the cathode tube and then a 'spring' arm which is attached to the mica plate. (Not an electrical connection, it appears to be designed to dissipate vibratory energy. The Foton 6N6P and NEVZ 6N5P from the early '60s also have this detail.) All of this makes it a more expensive tube to manufacture originally. So enjoy the current availability and (super) low price!
  
 Of course, NOT saying this is the BEST tube, just my favorite at the moment, and definitely in the same league as the other Trophy/HG tubes I have. YMMV.
 BTW, the adapters are not a hassle, you get used to using them, they hold the tube very tightly and more easily slip out of the amp sockets, so I have not had any adapters 'left behind' in any of the amps.


----------



## tjl5709

sanlitun said:


> Hey there, I am in the market for a balanced amp as I'm pretty curious about running the HD800s with their balanced cable.
> 
> The Mjolnir is an obvious choice as the price is right, and I happen to have some pretty good 6922 tubes hidden away.
> 
> ...


 

 I moved from lyr2>MJ2. It was a natural progression as I like the tube effect on sound. Currently running HD800s after moving from HD650 when I found it was the weak link after moving from the Bifrost/Lyr combo.
  
 Balanced it has more power, so I keep it on low gain. Very quiet background.
  
 Bottom line: They work very well together, and combined with my Yggy DAC, I have no reason to move on.


----------



## rmoody

sanlitun said:


> Hey there, I am in the market for a balanced amp as I'm pretty curious about running the HD800s with their balanced cable.
> 
> The Mjolnir is an obvious choice as the price is right, and I happen to have some pretty good 6922 tubes hidden away.
> 
> ...


 

 My first question/clarification would be to ask if you had the Lyr 1 or 2. The Lyr 2 has a much lower noise floor. Having not heard the HD800s, I can't really say much more except to say that the MJ2 is a very respectable amp compared to what I've heard with tubes: Vali, Valhala 2, Vali 2 (damn, just DAMN for the price, did I say damn?), MJ2 and Liquid Glass (don't go there, OMG, actually, do go there, OMG). Honestly not sure if I'm helping or not. All I know, is after my first tube injection (Vali) I must have tube! I'm addicted. My dream amp would be a balanced Liquid Glass for under $1k, but that's www.notgonnhappen.com land for many reasons. But I would love a Lyr 2 to pair with my Bifrost at some point.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'd recommend the Jotunheim. If you don't already have a great DAC, it's a great place to start.


----------



## rmoody

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I'd recommend the Jotunheim. If you don't already have a great DAC, it's a great place to start.


 

 I thought he wanted tubez, not intertubez, but electron tubez.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

You don't need to sell me on the merits of MJ2, especially considering LISST, but for the money it's a hard recommendation for someone who finds Lyr too wooly. Yes, it's more accurate, but Jotunheim surely retrieves a comparable or greater amount of detail for less than half the price.
  
 EDIT: I'm too polite to double post, but I'm curious: How much does a good dac help bass tightness? I sometimes wish MJ2 were a little more refined, but perhaps Bimby is the bottleneck. Is this the purview of Yggy to decidedly improve SQ?


----------



## rnros

sanlitun said:


> Hey there, I am in the market for a balanced amp as I'm pretty curious about running the HD800s with their balanced cable.
> 
> The Mjolnir is an obvious choice as the price is right, and I happen to have some pretty good 6922 tubes hidden away.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, the MJ2 surpasses the Lyrs.
 Assuming that you are referring to Lyr1. Curious about your experience with Lyr1. (I do have the Lyr1 also.)
  
 This amp was used for the 6922 Tube Review thread here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes
  
 Lots of information on this amp, used for evaluation of top tier tubes. Also references a trade review article of the Lyr amp.
 The author also used the HD800 (Black Dragon cable) for the review. Might be helpful.


----------



## FLTWS

rnros said:


> ... The author also used the HD800 (Black Dragon cable) for the review. Might be helpful.


 
  
 I really like my HD800 Black Dragon HP cable, and I bought the standard BD instead of the premium one.


----------



## Argo Duck

bosiemoncrieff said:


> ...
> 
> EDIT: I'm too polite to double post, but I'm curious: How much does a good dac help bass tightness? I sometimes wish MJ2 were a little more refined, but perhaps Bimby is the bottleneck. Is this the purview of Yggy to decidedly improve SQ?




Careful choice of dac can definitely make a difference. And yes...Yggy's bass is incredible. Detailed, textured, fast. It leaves other dacs I know well such as BMC puredac and eastern electric minimax in the dust. TME, YMMV of course.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Gumby is a apparently Warmer. Not sure if yggy is worth the extra thousand for me. Ack! Decisions decisions.


----------



## Vigrith

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Gumby is a apparently Warmer. Not sure if yggy is worth the extra thousand for me. Ack! Decisions decisions.




I'd be tempted to go for the Gumby instead, I already am in all fairness - I own and love the MJ2 and will be ordering a Jotunheim once I'm back home next weekend but dropping 1.3k (roughly, I live in Europe so post taxing et al.) on a DAC alone is already a little out of my comfort zone. I could save up and get a Yggdrasil but I like matching sizes and as you mentioned, many people whose opinion I value highly describe the Gumby as slightly warmer tilted which is definitely to my liking.

Would love to audition them but alas, I cannot. Depending on how I like the Jotunheim and my new Modi MB, the MB Gungnir should be my next purchase.


----------



## rmoody

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Gumby is a apparently Warmer. Not sure if yggy is worth the extra thousand for me. Ack! Decisions decisions.


 

 I'm not sure I can ever see myself with a Yggy, not that the desire isn't there. It's mostly the size of the thing, it's HUGE!  Currently, I have a Gungnir Sigma Delta version now (got it used), I'll upgrade to multibit when I can.
  
 My upgrade path has been as follows:
 Magni 2 Uber
 Modi 2 Uber
 Wyrd
 Asgard 2 (used)
 Bifrost Sigma Delta (used)
 Bifrost MultiBit upgrade
 Mjolnir 2
 Gungnir Sigma Delta (used)
  
 It's been a really fun journey. Each time, I feel I've noticed more change in sound quality with my amp upgrades. I never thought I'd have so much Schiit. Once I upgrade my Gungnir, I feel I'll be at my end game setup, minus some odds and ends. I've been thinking about a USB to SPDIF device of some sort. Wish Mike would make something like this since he hates USB so much I don't know if that would encourage or discourage said product development.
  
 Anyone have a USB to SPDIF device they feel was worth the upgrade?


----------



## tamleo

rmoody said:


> I'm not sure I can ever see myself with a Yggy, not that the desire isn't there. It's mostly the size of the thing, it's HUGE!  Currently, I have a Gungnir Sigma Delta version now (got it used), I'll upgrade to multibit when I can.
> 
> My upgrade path has been as follows:
> Magni 2 Uber
> ...


 
 Hi,
 Why did you sell the Asgard 2 and keep the Magni2u? 
 Schiit told me that their USB part was very qualified and better than anything sub-$1000 usb to spdif converter on audio market


----------



## rmoody

tamleo said:


> Hi,
> Why did you sell the Asgard 2 and keep the Magni2u?
> Schiit told me that their USB part was very qualified and better than anything sub-$1000 usb to spdif converter on audio market


 

 I've not sold anything, I still have all of my Schiit. Asgard 2 is not being used. Magni 2 Uber is being used by wife.
  
 That's good to know about their USB. I've not had any issues with it at all. Install the driver and select it in the audio control panel on Windows and in JRMC, done. Linux, different ball game, there must be 15+ devices listed when I go to select the output device in JRMC. I got it to work once and then it stopped. Felt like it was a waste of time so I just went back into Windows.


----------



## Gavin C4

I really look forward to pair my mjolnir 2 with Gungnir multibit. Just waiting for Schiit to bring it back on sale


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

gavin c4 said:


> I really look forward to pair my mjolnir 2 with Gungnir multibit. Just waiting for Schiit to bring it back on sale


 

 ugggghhhh I want to get Yggdrasil but I might just go Gumby. My HD800/K1000 could benefit from a little supposed warmth.


----------



## Jiexi

Depends on aesthetics too. I like my schiit matching lol.


----------



## ToTo Man

rnros said:


> Excellent. Exactly what you want. Great seller, purchased from him many times. His name is Jacob, responds quickly to questions, and will follow through with what he tells you.
> 
> A few additional points on this auction, and others like this:
> Always confirm the production year shown in the photo if that's what you want. With this particular tube, the sound is fairly consistent year to year. Can't say that I have a preference.
> ...


 
  
 Are those toobs compatible with Valhalla?


----------



## rnros

toto man said:


> Are those toobs compatible with Valhalla?




Yes. Same adapter, of course. I do use them in my Valhalla.


----------



## Gavin C4

bosiemoncrieff said:


> ugggghhhh I want to get Yggdrasil but I might just go Gumby. My HD800/K1000 could benefit from a little supposed warmth.




I dont really see myself with the Yggdrasil any time soon in the future LOL. It is just too dam big compared to MJ2. Aesthetics and size matching is also quite important IMO. 
The Gumby should be my sweet spot for this price range. I am not sure with the extra one thousand dollars.


----------



## ToTo Man

rnros said:


> Yes. Same adapter, of course. I do use them in my Valhalla.


 
  
 I still have the stock pre- and power- tubes fitted in my Valhalla but want to try something different, mainly because I am now getting intermittent low-level noise (it sounds like rustling newspapers) through my 'phones.  I don't know if it's bad tubes or something else so I'm looking for replacements that aren't going to cost me a lot of money.  Those 6N3P look excellent value for money, but how much are the adaptors?  Also do you have any recommendations for replacement power tubes?  
  
 PS Sorry for going off-topic in the Mjolnir 2 thread.


----------



## rnros

I'll be brief since it is the MJ2 thread.

Determine the faulty/noisy tube by swapping tubes channel to channel one pair at a time. If the power tubes are OK, no need to replace them right now since the NEVZ 6N6Ps that Schiit provides is a decent tube. 

Adapters are about $15/pair:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191636111735?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

The 6N3P-Es are about $20 for a matched pair, less if you just buy a batch of 8 or 10. If you need additional info just PM me.

Edit: Note that I am only referring to the Reflector '-E' variety. There are lot of 6N3P varieties!



toto man said:


> I still have the stock pre- and power- tubes fitted in my Valhalla but want to try something different, mainly because I am now getting intermittent low-level noise (it sounds like rustling newspapers) through my 'phones.  I don't know if it's bad tubes or something else so I'm looking for replacements that aren't going to cost me a lot of money.  Those 6N3P look excellent value for money, but how much are the adaptors?  Also do you have any recommendations for replacement power tubes?
> 
> PS Sorry for going off-topic in the Mjolnir 2 thread.


----------



## rmoody

rnros said:


> I'll be brief since it is the MJ2 thread.
> 
> Determine the faulty/noisy tube by swapping tubes channel to channel one pair at a time. If the power tubes are OK, no need to replace them right now since the NEVZ 6N6Ps that Schiit provides is a decent tube.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm so glad you are on this thread. You've done more to help me understand and jump into tube rolling than anyone else.
  
 I got my tubes today! Still waiting on the adapter. Perhaps it will be here when I return from Minneapolis next week and I'll have something to play with.
  
 Thanks again!


----------



## rkrug20

rmoody said:


> I'm so glad you are on this thread. You've done more to help me understand and jump into tube rolling than anyone else.
> 
> I got my tubes today! Still waiting on the adapter. Perhaps it will be here when I return from Minneapolis next week and I'll have something to play with.
> 
> Thanks again!


 

 I live in Minneapolis and have an extra set of adapters...


----------



## rmoody

rkrug20 said:


> I live in Minneapolis and have an extra set of adapters...


 

 Holy crap, you're kidding! I fly in Sunday morning (yeah, 9/11, fun). Staying at the hotel at Mall of America. Any advise on breweries and food? I'm hoping to at least get to Surley I've heard good things. If nothing else, I'll get a six pack of something not available in Tennessee and share with my co-workers. Who knows when I'll get another chance to go this far from home!


----------



## FLTWS

Funny that, I thought I was the only one flying on 9/11, but to Milwaukee. Hope it's cooled down out on the Lakes, been dying from the heat here on the Delaware River.


----------



## rmoody

fltws said:


> Funny that, I thought I was the only one flying on 9/11, but to Milwaukee. Hope it's cooled down out on the Lakes, been dying from the heat here on the Delaware River.


 

 First, safe journey, I'll be thinking of you. (please so the same, for me)
  
 Second, omg it's been so miserable in east TN this summer. I mean, we get hot here, mid 90's upper 80's are common, but normally, we get breaks from the heat on a regular basis and it's not months and months of 90+ temperatures.
  
 I checked the weather and it's like 20 degrees cooler there. I'm sure glad I'm not going in the winter because I'm southern born and bred and I'm pretty sure that not only me, but my offspring would freeze to death!


----------



## FLTWS

In my younger days I would go out every February to snow mobile with my brother who lives out there, (spring, summer, and early fall trips are for walleye and salmon fishing). Now that I'm older I still like winter (favorite time of year for music listening and football) but from the comfort of my living room recliner!
  
 Have a safe one.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'm sure we've answered this before but I wonder: is there a preference for MJ2/Yggy vs. Rag/Gumby?


----------



## ToddRaymond

According to @reddog, the former would be the more desirable combination.  I suppose if you were less picky about your source, and wanted the added transducer driving capabilities that the Ragnarok offers, that could also work out quite well.  I've never heard the Yggy, but I did have the Gungnir Multibit for a while, even paired up with the Rag for about a week at the end (funds are low, had to part with some Schiit for now), and it was damn fine.  As soon as I'm able to though, I'm planning on going the Yggy > MJ2 route.  There's a good chance my eventual MJ2 will double as a preamp into a forthcoming 'pivot point' Schiit power amp.


----------



## rnros

rmoody said:


> I'm so glad you are on this thread. You've done more to help me understand and jump into tube rolling than anyone else.
> 
> I got my tubes today! Still waiting on the adapter. Perhaps it will be here when I return from Minneapolis next week and I'll have something to play with.
> 
> Thanks again!


 

 Glad the information was helpful! You are very welcome. Enjoy your trip, and your tubes when you return. Traveling North is a good idea for those of us who have been dealing with temps in the mid 90s. Safe trip.


----------



## Vigrith

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I'm sure we've answered this before but I wonder: is there a preference for MJ2/Yggy vs. Rag/Gumby?


 
  
 I'd definitely go for MJ2 + Yggdrasil - I love tubes and the Mjolnir is extremely versatile given its ability to go full solid state if one would want to do so, matching headphones and source(s) becomes so much easier with a device like that, I love the MJ2 very dearly. Plus, only speakers I own are Devialet Phantoms which are self-sufficient so Ragnarok's capabilities are not necessary.
  
 That said, I also feel there'll be more of a change/you'll achieve a broader area if you swap between amps (hybrid, OTLs, solid state, tube rolling in general, etc) than you will sources, once you get a good DAC like the Yggdrasil I doubt you'd really feel the itch to buy a bunch of other 2k+ DACs to play around with - I wouldn't at least, maybe that's just me.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

vigrith said:


> I'd definitely go for MJ2 + Yggdrasil - I love tubes and the Mjolnir is extremely versatile given its ability to go full solid state if one would want to do so, matching headphones and source(s) becomes so much easier with a device like that, I love the MJ2 very dearly. Plus, only speakers I own are Devialet Phantoms which are self-sufficient so Ragnarok's capabilities are not necessary.
> 
> That said, I also feel there'll be more of a change/you'll achieve a broader area if you swap between amps (hybrid, OTLs, solid state, tube rolling in general, etc) than you will sources, once you get a good DAC like the Yggdrasil I doubt you'd really feel the itch to buy a bunch of other 2k+ DACs to play around with - I wouldn't at least, maybe that's just me.


 

 I think you have the right idea. Rag and Jotunheim both speak to a desire for as few boxes as possible, but I have and like MJ2, even as I realize it's nowhere near WA5 in terms of SQ. I'd sooner get a power amp when I'm ready for speakers and keep headphone needs separate.


----------



## Vigrith

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I think you have the right idea. Rag and Jotunheim both speak to a desire for as few boxes as possible, but I have and like MJ2, even as I realize it's nowhere near WA5 in terms of SQ. I'd sooner get a power amp when I'm ready for speakers and keep headphone needs separate.


 
  
 Indeed, I imagine the WA5 is on a league of its own but I own the WA7 myself and the sound signature's between Woo and Schiit are relatively distinctive - probably hard to evaluate how the MJ2 pairs up against Woo's 5 that taken into consideration.
  
 I prefer to keep needs separate, if my speakers needed a power amp I'd rather buy one later on rather than try and get something like the Jotun/Rag and have it do both. That said I do have a Jotunheim on order because I feel it'll be a fantastic device regardless of whether or not I'll ever use the pre-amp functionality.


----------



## Delayeed

Welp. I guess I'll start saving up for a Mjolnir 2 for christmas to pair with my Chord Mojo and Ether C 1.1 until I can afford a Gungnir Multibit.
 Those spheres on Mojo are a little annoying in a desktop setup since they are so small to press and the unit moves around whenever there's pulling on the cables.

 Oh also tubes seem cool... or "warm" AHAHDSFSDIHS


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Has anyone done an ab with Jotunhem?


----------



## jgoodwin

rnros said:


> Glad the information was helpful! You are very welcome. Enjoy your trip, and your tubes when you return. Traveling North is a good idea for those of us who have been dealing with temps in the mid 90s. Safe trip.


 

 So I know I wasn't part of the original commenting, but I basically followed all your advice and got myself a set of the Russian tubes. Good advice man. I love them. I have the stock tubes, gold lion E88CC, and Telefunken E88CC tubes. These all came with the M2 that I got used, and I had fun swapping between the three sets, but I think my swapping may slow down because these Russian tubes are so warm and cozy. Like you said on the quiter side, but I still have the entire high gain switch to flip still, so lots of headroom on volume. I am very glad I ran into your comments. Thanks!


----------



## rnros

jgoodwin said:


> So I know I wasn't part of the original commenting, but I basically followed all your advice and got myself a set of the Russian tubes. Good advice man. I love them. I have the stock tubes, gold lion E88CC, and Telefunken E88CC tubes. These all came with the M2 that I got used, and I had fun swapping between the three sets, but I think my swapping may slow down because these Russian tubes are so warm and cozy. Like you said on the quiter side, but I still have the entire high gain switch to flip still, so lots of headroom on volume. I am very glad I ran into your comments. Thanks!


 

 Glad to hear you are enjoying them. Helps me to believe I actually am sane, well almost. 
 REFL 6N3P-E has become my favorite tube in the MJ2. Plus... It stopped me from buying all those $300+ tube sets! LOL.


----------



## Delayeed

rnros said:


> Glad to hear you are enjoying them. Helps me to believe I actually am sane, well almost.
> REFL 6N3P-E has become my favorite tube in the MJ2. Plus... It stopped me from buying all those $300+ tube sets! LOL.


 
 wat. 
 http://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=176 These? I thought tubes are expensive.


----------



## tjl5709

delayeed said:


> wat.
> http://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=176 These? I thought tubes are expensive.


 

 Wait till they go mainstream. Grab them now along with a convertor.


----------



## rnros

delayeed said:


> wat.
> http://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=176 These? I thought tubes are expensive.


 

 Yes, Reflector 6N3P-E. Great tube. But trust your own ears. Enjoy. As noted by tjl5709, adapter required.
 If you need more info on tube or adapter you can search back in this thread, or my own post list.


----------



## Delayeed

Thanks both


----------



## Gavin C4

One of my concern about the design of the Mjolnir 2 is the vents on the surface. I am a bit worry about dust going into the Mjolnir 2 unit through those vents and may eventually cause problems or short circuit. Is there any way to clean or remove dust if there are significant amount build up inside?


----------



## Mediahound

gavin c4 said:


> One of my concern about the design of the Mjolnir 2 is the vents on the surface. I am a bit worry about dust going into the Mjolnir 2 unit through those vents and may eventually cause problems or short circuit. Is there any way to clean or remove dust if there are significant amount build up inside?


 

 I think you can occaisionally blow it out with some air duts blower (when it's cool and off). That said, when I'm not using the amp for a while, I place a microfiber cloth over it.


----------



## FLTWS

gavin c4 said:


> One of my concern about the design of the Mjolnir 2 is the vents on the surface. I am a bit worry about dust going into the Mjolnir 2 unit through those vents and may eventually cause problems or short circuit. Is there any way to clean or remove dust if there are significant amount build up inside?


 
  
 Unless you live in an exceptionally dust ridden environment I wouldn't be too concerned. An occasional once over the screen area with a handheld vac seems adequate to me. I lay a Glad sandwich bag over the area when I'm going away for a week or more. Of course don't turn it on without removing it, or put it on too soon after turning it off.
  
 One other suggestion, I don't smoke or allow smoking in my home, but a friend of mine does at his home. All you need look at is windows to see what kind of film is most likely building up on every surface and into every nook and cranny in the place. That smoke film can become tacky over time especially with humidity and then dust and grime might not just get into but stick as well.
  
 I found a company that will fabricate a pair (minimum order of 2 - $50.00 the pair) of  rectangular Lucite covers of just the right size for the grate area and figured I'd place some soft felt stick-on discs on the open side to protect the metal finish. Seemed like nice aesthetic solution. What could go wrong? Then I thought, hmmm, what if something knock against that plastic cover and shears the tops off my matched, chilled, and blessed $300.00 the pair Telefunkens!!!
  
 Glad sandwich bags work great!


----------



## franzdom

That seems like trouble waiting to happen


----------



## franzdom

Lyr 2 owner getting a Mjolnir 2 today. 
 Looking at the specs, one thing seems really odd. The Lyr 2 is twice as powerful when driving SE. Does that make it a better SE amp?
  
 I am getting the MJ2 to run Balanced from Yggy to LCD-3 but I also use closed cans that are SE late at night. I guess it doesn't really matter as all the other specs show MJ2 to be quieter, etc. So it probably is a better amp for SE but just wanted to throw this out there and see where it lands.


----------



## rnros

franzdom said:


> Lyr 2 owner getting a Mjolnir 2 today.
> Looking at the specs, one thing seems really odd. The Lyr 2 is twice as powerful when driving SE. Does that make it a better SE amp?
> 
> I am getting the MJ2 to run Balanced from Yggy to LCD-3 but I also use closed cans that are SE late at night. I guess it doesn't really matter as all the other specs show MJ2 to be quieter, etc. So it probably is a better amp for SE but just wanted to throw this out there and see where it lands.


 

 Yes, MJ2-SE>LYR2. With good tubes of course.


----------



## franzdom

Dayum this sounds good with some Count Basie, "Moten Swing" from The Golden Years or some Count Basie with Bill Hughes "In a Mellow Tone", the trombone leaps out at you!
  
 I can't wait for balanced cables to arrive!!!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I find that a good HEPA air filter does wonders both for my allergies and my equipment. There are little plug-in ones but i got a floor standing one on amazon for $90. Great investment.


----------



## franzdom

Just changed from SE (in & out) to balanced (in & out) from Yggie to MJ2 to LCD-3.
 The noise floor seemed lower (is that possible?) when set to normal listening levels. Then I paused the source, turned the knob all the way, nothing.
 Then switched the gain to 8X, same thing, NOTHING. I had noticed a fair bit of odd rhythmic almost noise when doing the same at the highest levels of high gain.
 I know you can't judge anything by this test but...it is clearly better to use this Schiit properly, the way it was designed, balanced.
  
 Ok, now for the sound impressions, more ethereal, more spacious, more euphonic. I am all in on balanced, and MJ2 >> Lyr 2.


----------



## Mediahound

franzdom said:


> Just changed from SE (in & out) to balanced (in & out) from Yggie to MJ2 to LCD-3.
> *The noise floor seemed lower (is that possible?) *


 
  
 Positively. Balanced includes something called common mode noise rejection, built in, along with 4x the power versus single-ended.


----------



## franzdom

mediahound said:


> Positively. Balanced includes something called common mode noise rejection, built in, along with 4x the power versus single-ended.


 
  
 Plus 2x power out of Yggy


----------



## Gavin C4

Testing with my ears, comparing the SE and balanced outs on the Mj2, I do not notice any signal noise. So I cant really say which one is better at least to my ears. But what the Mj2 provides is that I can connect it with two headphone, one for me and one for my girl friend. Cuz we both like headphone better than speaker. Noted that the volume between the two output maybe a bit different. So i put hard to drive headphone on the balanced and vice versa for SE.


----------



## Jiexi

gavin c4 said:


> Testing with my ears, comparing the SE and balanced outs on the Mj2, I do not notice any signal noise. So I cant really say which one is better at least to my ears. But what the Mj2 provides is that I can connect it with two headphone, one for me and one for my girl friend. Cuz we both like headphone better than speaker. Noted that the volume between the two output maybe a bit different. So i put hard to drive headphone on the balanced and vice versa for SE.


 
 Is that safe? I don't think both jacks are intended to be used at the same time


----------



## franzdom

jiexi said:


> Is that safe? I don't think both jacks are intended to be used at the same time


 
  
 I just asked Nick this yesterday and he confirmed, "Absolutely OK."


----------



## Gavin C4

Outputs on some Schiits products are all active at the same time. For example the balanced and 2 single ended output at the back of the Gungnir are all active at the same time. The balance and single ended output at the back of the Mjolnir 2 are both active sending signal when there is no headphone plugged in. Schiit builds military grade durable products, I dont expect the unit to be damage by plugging in two headphones LOL.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

After months of the '68 amperax orange globes, used LISST with my K1000 yesterday. Not bad at all.


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> After months of the '68 amperax orange globes, used LISST with my K1000 yesterday. Not bad at all.


 
  
 That's the same conclusion I came to going from Telefunken E88CC's to LISST's in my MJ2. So much so I ordered Raggy, I'm still burning it in but I'm even more impressed with the Rag (and I may throw a pair of LS50's on it next year).
  
 I've also decided to grab a Jodie and Valhalla 2 in the near future, settle on my final choices to add my TOTL headphones menagerie by year end, and spend 2017 doing a massive HP / Schiit HP Amp shootout during 2017!
  
 I can't believe where this project has taken me, but man, I am having some fun.


----------



## Delayeed

Haha reassuring to hear I won't need those really expensive tubes to enjoy the MJ2 when I get one. Will probably stick to stock and LISST to just get a taste on what tubes are like and go from there  

 Is there any (audible) noise floor on the MJ2. Coming from Chord Mojo I'm used to dead silent background with closed headphones. Will the MJ2 keep it same?

 BTW Nick told me the measurements on the MJ2 product page are actually done with tubes so the LISST should measure even better which was a huge surprise because even when I assumed they were LISST those measurements didn't look bad at all! Very impressive.


----------



## FLTWS

delayeed said:


> Haha reassuring to hear I won't need those really expensive tubes to enjoy the MJ2 when I get one. Will probably stick to stock and LISST to just get a taste on what tubes are like and go from there
> 
> Is there any (audible) noise floor on the MJ2. Coming from Chord Mojo I'm used to dead silent background with closed headphones. Will the MJ2 keep it same?
> 
> BTW Nick told me the measurements on the MJ2 product page are actually done with tubes so the LISST should measure even better which was a huge surprise because even when I assumed they were LISST those measurements didn't look bad at all! Very impressive.


 
  
 I have never heard any noise with any of the gear I currently have, no external transformer noise, nothing in the circuitry, nothing with tubes and nothing with the LISST's. Every time I start a CD the background is completely absent of any hum, hiss, hash - it's like I've suddenly gone deaf. And then the music starts and almost makes me jump every time because it appears out of, seemingly, nowhere. Not the case say 15 years ago for me, I always heard something in the electronics of the time.
  
 My experience with the LISST's over the tubes (stock or premium): They definitely reach both higher and lower with a bit more control of the sound of individual instruments than the tubes. The trade-off I hear is with imaging and depth. The image(s) move in closer to me (not objectionably so) with LISST's and seem a bit larger. Stability of image is about the same, but they lack that touch of air and sense of roundness tubes give to the sound of instruments (perhaps a distortion of some sort that adds artificial depth but is extremely euphonic but satisfying to my ear). It gives instruments and especially voices a very "I am there" presentation, provided the source recording isn't crappy, and the interconnecting cable are in synergy with the gears circuitry. 
  
 Nowadays I don't think any product can go forth with crappy measurements, too many will dismiss it out of hand. I always see measurements as only a general indicator. Example: a man is 6 feet tall and weights in at 235. The height to weight charts tell you that person is way too heavy for that height. Then you find out the person is a running back for a professional football team with 10% body fat. With audio gear the proof is always in the listening.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

LISST can be more fatiguing than tubes when you have an already-bright headphone like HD800 or K1000. I say it's not bad, and I stand by that, but after an hour I was about ready to do something else. 
  
 But for HD6xx or Audeze in general, they should be fine—again, it depends on your music. I find the eighteenth century (Mozart, Handel, Vivaldi...) much more amenable to different headphones than, for instance, Wagner, who requires a large, particular sound.


----------



## franzdom

I still prefer proper tubes even with Audeze LCD-3, I guess I don't love bright as much as I thought I did (looking at you Beyer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). 
  
 I am not tube expert but I notice that the latest I have Siemens E188CC 7308 are noticeably less piercing than the other high end tubes I have tried from Mullard & Telefunken, and also LSST which I found fairly flat and uninteresting.


----------



## Gavin C4

The Mj2 is very quite in the background no matter at high gain and low gain. Dead silence under the sea


----------



## Mediahound

bosiemoncrieff said:


> LISST can be more fatiguing than tubes when you have an already-bright headphone like HD800 or K1000. I say it's not bad, and I stand by that, but after an hour I was about ready to do something else.


 
 I have found after a while (many hours, probably over 100 or so), they break/burn in and treble smooths out. Not to the point they sound like tubes, but better than when they are totally brand new.


----------



## zive

mediahound said:


> I have found after a while (many hours, probably over 100 or so), they break/burn in and treble smooths out. Not to the point they sound like tubes, but better than when they are totally brand new.


 
 I would agree; I wasn't all that impressed right out of the box, but after about 80-100 hours of burn in the LISST became much more enjoyable with my LCD-3F and I will regularly rotate them in with my best NOS tubes depending on my mood. Franz, give them a little more time and see if you don't find them more engaging.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Carcajou

I received the M2 yesterday and after about 5hrs of break in I'm already starting to really like what I'm hearing. My only negative points would be regarding the chassis' high resonance that is perceptible throught the headphones (I find that the problem seems to lessen as the chassis warms up) and the fact that the power switch is is the back. As far as sound goes, I'm very satisfied (considering I only have 5hres of break in)..
  
 So far I've been using a Fiio X5 ii and a turntable as my sources, but I'd like to get a proper balanced DAC.
  
 The Gungnir is over my budget for now, so I'd really appreciate if you could share your balanced DAC suggestions (below $500). I've been looking at the Teac UD-301, anyone has tried pairing it with the M2?
  
 Thanks!
  
 Edits:
 1- Resonance problem fixed by changing the tubes. Schiit sent new tubes super rapidly after I explained what the problem was. My unit is now completely quiet.
 2- I bought a K5 dock for my X5 and balanced cables (the K5 has balanced outputs, total $150 CAD). I'm very satisfied with this setup so it'll do until I can afford a Gungnir.


----------



## tjl5709

Watch and get a used Gumby then. If you have not gotten a chance to listen to multibit, you need to do yourself a favor. It will be well worth your time.


----------



## Delayeed

carcajou said:


> I received the M2 yesterday and after about 5hrs of break in I'm already starting to really like what I'm hearing. My only negative points would be regarding the chassis' high resonance that is perceptible throught the headphones (I find that the problem seems to lessen as the chassis warms up) and the fact that the power switch is is the back. As far as sound goes, I'm very satisfied (considering I only have 5hres of break in)..
> 
> So far I've been using a Fiio X5 ii and a turntable as my sources, but I'd like to get a proper balanced DAC.
> 
> ...


 
 Congrats! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Save up if you can wait. I'm sure it will be more satisfying long term to have a nice stack of Schiit and knowing that you are getting a "meant to be" pairing. What headphones you are using to hear the chassis resonance? Also Is it audible only when like tapping/touching it or is it more like if you change your position or turn your head kind of thing?


----------



## Carcajou

delayeed said:


> Congrats!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Getting a used one was my intentention at first, but there isn't a lot of used Schiit in Montreal, but you're both right, I should probably just wait and save for a Gungnir...
  
 I'm hearing resonance with both my Grado sr325 and my Beyer dt990 (hd650s and a balanced cable are my next purchases). At first, the cord hitting the shelve as I moved was enough, but as it warmed up it got much better and I really had to tap on the chassis to ear anything. I guess they have to save somewhere in order to produce such high-quality amps for such reasonable prices. However, I find that my Jolida's chassis feels much higher-end, and it's in a similar price range (I know they're made in China which explains the low price tag). Overall I'd say it's only a minor inconvenience


----------



## franzdom

So sad, came home from work today and left channel is out. Swapped everything one by one, it's always out. SE or balanced in, SE or balanced out. Tubes swapped, problem is always on left side. So sad.


----------



## Carcajou

franzdom said:


> So sad, came home from work today and left channel is out. Swapped everything one by one, it's always out. SE or balanced in, SE or balanced out. Tubes swapped, problem is always on left side. So sad.


 
 Good thing there's a 5-year warranty! Have you tried the preamp outputs in the back? It might at least reduce the possibilities of where the problem comes from.


----------



## franzdom

Super idea, will do.

 EDIT: Problem is still there, preouts only work on right channel. I guess I box this up and wait for Schiit to email me. I wish I hadn't sold my Asgard 2 and my Lyr 2, or that I had bought a Jot. It's going to be a tough wait for this fix.
  
 Nick got with me straight away, since it's not even a month old was very sympathetic.


----------



## rnros

carcajou said:


> I received the M2 yesterday and after about 5hrs of break in I'm already starting to really like what I'm hearing. My only negative points would be regarding* the chassis' high resonance that is perceptible throught the headphones* (I find that the problem seems to lessen as the chassis warms up) and the fact that the power switch is is the back. As far as sound goes, I'm very satisfied (considering I only have 5hres of break in)..


 
 That doesn't sound right to me. I have the MJ2 and I've never had that problem. What kind of sound is it? Both channels or one? Could be one of the tubes also. If you haven't already tried tapping each tube gently, you can try it to see if it produces a similar sound. Disappearance with warm-up would also be consistent with a tube issue.
  
 I have each of the Schiit tube amps and I've never had any sort of chassis sound with any of them. Pending the tube check, might be a good idea to check with Schiit tech support.


----------



## Carcajou

rnros said:


> That doesn't sound right to me. I have the MJ2 and I've never had that problem. What kind of sound is it? Both channels or one? Could be one of the tubes also. If you haven't already tried tapping each tube gently, you can try it to see if it produces a similar sound. Disappearance with warm-up would also be consistent with a tube issue.
> 
> I have each of the Schiit tube amps and I've never had any sort of chassis sound with any of them. Pending the tube check, might be a good idea to check with Schiit tech support.



It seems like your right! I hear the sound when I tap the left channel tube, but not the right channel's. In hindsight, it does sound like a loose filament or something.

I'll email Schiit right away, thanks for your input, much appreciated!

Edit: just received some new tubes from Schiit and the problem is gone. Thanks again rnros!


----------



## rnros

carcajou said:


> ...thanks for your input, much appreciated!


 





 Great amp, enjoy!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

"get gumby or save to yggy" has to be one of the biggest dilemmas in high end audio...but right now i'm curious how good MJ2 is at sensitive, near-field speakers. I don't have any, but I'm tempted.


----------



## franzdom

bosiemoncrieff said:


> "get gumby or save to yggy" has to be one of the biggest dilemmas in high end audio...but right now i'm curious how good MJ2 is at sensitive, near-field speakers. I don't have any, but I'm tempted.


 
  
 Do you mean as a pre-amp?
 Please give an example, I am likely wanting higher end speakers for my desk area for Christmas.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

No, I mean as an amp-amp.


----------



## Delayeed

bosiemoncrieff said:


> No, I mean as an amp-amp.


 
 For passive speakers? I recall Schiit saying that's not a good idea and can possibly damage the amp.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

well then hello vidar


----------



## zabzaf

bosiemoncrieff said:


> "get gumby or save to yggy" has to be one of the biggest dilemmas in high end audio...but right now i'm curious how good MJ2 is at sensitive, near-field speakers. I don't have any, but I'm tempted.




I run Gumby and MJ2 with a pair of JBL LSR305s and the rig is amazing!


----------



## rmoody

zabzaf said:


> I run Gumby and MJ2 with a pair of JBL LSR305s and the rig is amazing!


 

 I'm using a similar rig (Yamaha HS8's). Are you turning the MJ2 off when not in use? Do you also turn the JBL's off?


----------



## Furiousipaduser

rmoody said:


> I'm using a similar rig (Yamaha HS8's). Are you turning the MJ2 off when not in use? Do you also turn the JBL's off?


 
 Use to run my airmotiv 5s off the MJ2 but got tired of turning them off when I just wanted to use headphones. Now I just go GUMBY > SYS>  Airmotiv 5s


----------



## Delayeed

zabzaf said:


> I run Gumby and MJ2 with a pair of JBL LSR305s and the rig is amazing!


 
 I have my 305s just sitting there with nothing to power them at the moment lol. Almost never used them anyway due to harshness from my DacMagic+ which I sold saving for an MJ2. Maybe finally with the MJ2 and nice tubes they will get more use. Then again so will my headphones lol...


----------



## westermac

zabzaf said:


> I run Gumby and MJ2 with a pair of JBL LSR305s and the rig is amazing!




+1

I have a Bimby + MJ2 + LSR305 combo, absolutely fantastic. The LSR305's are an absurd value for the money; I previously owned a $1400 pair of Dynaudio monitors, the 305's are better (albeit less "hi-fi sounding, no midbass bloom or smoothed treble like the Dynaudio)


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

K3003i comes later this week; they're my first IEM pairing with MJ2. We'll see whether they prefer tubes or LISST. And how the noise floor is. Footnote, where is LISST? I haven't seen them on the website for months.


----------



## Mediahound

bosiemoncrieff said:


> K3003i comes later this week; they're my first IEM pairing with MJ2. We'll see whether they prefer tubes or LISST. And how the noise floor is. Footnote, where is LISST? I haven't seen them on the website for months.


 

 I emailed them last week and they said they shoudl be back in stock in a couple of weeks.


----------



## maximal112

Has anyone got any experience/impressions of MJ2 with Ether C Flow?


----------



## HK_sends

maximal112 said:


> Has anyone got any experience/impressions of MJ2 with Ether C Flow?


 
 Give me a few weeks and I will...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -HK sends
  
 P.S. - I've heard they are an excellent pairing.  I'm looking forward to rolling tubes and tweaking the sound to where I like it.


----------



## maximal112

hk_sends said:


> Give me a few weeks and I will...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I look forward to it. Been thinking about the two for a while, always had in my mind that MJ2 would be next amp and Ether C's, now C flows would be my next pairing
  
 Haven't tried any tube amps yet, so looking forward to being able to hopefully try them out soon


----------



## HK_sends

maximal112 said:


> I look forward to it. Been thinking about the two for a while, always had in my mind that MJ2 would be next amp and Ether C's, now C flows would be my next pairing
> 
> Haven't tried any tube amps yet, so looking forward to being able to hopefully try them out soon


 
 I lucked out on a good deal for the MJ2 and some tubes, plus I have quite a few from when I owned the Lyr and Lyr 2.  I'm in the process of moving now but I should have my hands on the amp in a week or so.
 Tube rolling is fun since you have so many ways to tweak the sound based on the tube manufacturer, tube family (6922, 7308, E188CC, etc.), even date of manufacture (NOS vs new).  Be care careful though, I can get out of control and ridiculously expensive! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Two things I would recommend: a set of "socket saver" adapters that will raise the tubes high enough to swap easily and two, the patience to let the tubes burn in and open up before trying a different set.
 Lastly, you might want to consider some tube dampers to reduce some of the microphonics that tubes can have.  PM me and I can provide suggestions for the dampers and socket savers.
  
 All this is IMHO and YMMV!  But really, it can be fun and rewarding!
 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -HK sends


----------



## Delayeed

Same here. First time getting to know tubes and grabbed some Amperex and Siemens tubes. Getting the MJ2 in December and read some good things about the pairing with Ether C. I still wonder how much behind the LISST would be compared to a Rag. Worried a little because some say it's 2 dimensional and little weird mids. Rag is out of my budget though so hmm.


----------



## wasupdog

rag is the better amp overall but you'll never get the mids that tubes will give you.  i stuck with the rag and am happy but i still miss those mids.


----------



## maximal112

hk_sends said:


> I lucked out on a good deal for the MJ2 and some tubes, plus I have quite a few from when I owned the Lyr and Lyr 2.  I'm in the process of moving now but I should have my hands on the amp in a week or so.
> Tube rolling is fun since you have so many ways to tweak the sound based on the tube manufacturer, tube family (6922, 7308, E188CC, etc.), even date of manufacture (NOS vs new).  Be care careful though, I can get out of control and ridiculously expensive!
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yea I like the idea with tubes where you can go through different tubes to find the sound you're after. Definitely seems like a dangerous game to get into for the wallet though, feel a lot of money could be spent on trying to find "the perfect" tube. Both seem like good ideas, especially socket saver, will send pm shortly. Thanks for all the help, I like to research and know what I'm getting into before buying something.
  


delayeed said:


> Same here. First time getting to know tubes and grabbed some Amperex and Siemens tubes. Getting the MJ2 in December and read some good things about the pairing with Ether C. I still wonder how much behind the LISST would be compared to a Rag. Worried a little because some say it's 2 dimensional and little weird mids. Rag is out of my budget though so hmm.


 
 I'm keen to try out LISST as well, looked at the Rag but has more than what I need tbh, don't need the amp function for speakers and like the idea of tubes on the MJ2 but like you curious as to how the two compare


----------



## Delayeed

maximal112 said:


> Yea I like the idea with tubes where you can go through different tubes to find the sound you're after. Definitely seems like a dangerous game to get into for the wallet though, feel a lot of money could be spent on trying to find "the perfect" tube. Both seem like good ideas, especially socket saver, will send pm shortly. Thanks for all the help, I like to research and know what I'm getting into before buying something.
> 
> I'm keen to try out LISST as well, looked at the Rag but has more than what I need tbh, don't need the amp function for speakers and like the idea of tubes on the MJ2 but like you curious as to how the two compare


 
 Btw: https://mrspeakers.com/shop/2-electronics/mjolnir-2/
 They seem to praise it for the Ether headphones and use it to voice them which is cool. They don't seem to sell the Rag which has me thinking the MJ2 is probably what they prefer.


----------



## zabzaf

rmoody said:


> I'm using a similar rig (Yamaha HS8's). Are you turning the MJ2 off when not in use? Do you also turn the JBL's off?




Yes on MJ2. I usually leave JBLs on because I'm too lazy to turn them off.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Interested to try my Klipsch powered monitors with MJ2.


----------



## rmoody

zabzaf said:


> Yes on MJ2. I usually leave JBLs on because I'm too lazy to turn them off.


 

 This is what I do. Issue I have is the monitors pop when the relays close on the MJ2. Do you experience this?
  
 This lead to a blown fuse on the MJ2 once because the volume was too high when the relays closed. I have an Emotiva control freak in the chain now to act as a mute. Cost me $75 to get the fuse replaced because it's internal and I didn't want to sacrifice my warranty because it was only a few months old.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

So K3003 sounds very similar from MJ2 (and bimby) as it does straight out of my iMac, maybe a little warmer, which leads me to my criticism of it: compared to HD800/K1000 there is something of a veil. It's just a bit blurrier than my main open back flagships. But for an IEM ($307 paid), I can't say that it sounds any worse than my HD600 (maybe $230 paid), and they're packing all their schiit into something like a cubic centimeter or two. Definitely better than QC25, even with the noise cancellation, but you all know that.


----------



## Dr Metal MD

Thanks for all posting on this thread. Giving me a lot to think about. I was planning on getting a Lyr 2, but I am quite intrigued by the Mjolnir 2, even though it's out of my budget unless I really save for awhile.  Here is my current gear:
  
 Vali 1
 Lounge phono stage
 Hifiman 400i (not balanced or anything like that, just stock cables)
 Technics 1200 turntable
 Denon DL 110 cartridge
  
 I primarily listen to metal, classic rock, and progressive rock/metal, almost entirely on vinyl. I want more power for my Hifiman 400i's, so I wanted to upgrade my Vali. I still feel the 400i's are under-powered. I was thinking about budgeting out around $500 for a great upgrade and was really planning on the Lyr 2. However, is the Mjolnir 2 THAT much better?
  
 I should note that I have 0 experience with tubes, so I was also hoping to use the Lyr 2 as an entry point for me to get into tube rolling. Not sure if I should stick with my plan or save up for a Mjolnir 2, which will probably then make the rest of my equipment the limiting factors in terms of sound quality. Any advice is greatly appreciated.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

dr metal md said:


> Thanks for all posting on this thread. Giving me a lot to think about. I was planning on getting a Lyr 2, but I am quite intrigued by the Mjolnir 2, even though it's out of my budget unless I really save for awhile.  Here is my current gear:
> 
> Vali 1
> Lounge phono stage
> ...




You have vali—that's a great entry into tubes. If I were you I'd get Jotunheim. Use vali as a preamp if you want a warmer sound, leave it out if you want pure solid state. The power can't be beat until you get to Mjolnir 2. Skip Lyr, poor value and smeared sound.


----------



## rnros

dr metal md said:


> _clip..._ I should note that I have 0 experience with tubes, so I was also hoping to use the Lyr 2 as an entry point for me to get into tube rolling. Not sure if I should stick with my plan or save up for a Mjolnir 2, which will probably then make the rest of my equipment the limiting factors in terms of sound quality. Any advice is greatly appreciated.


 
 Yes, MJ2, in my experience, is the better of the two, but if you are using only SE, the difference may not be that important to you at this point.
  
 Lyr2 is a great amp in it's own way, and I use both depending on the day and mood. Half the price but close in quality in SE mode. Coming from the Vali1 you will have a lot of upgrade qualities and power to explore and assimilate with the Lyr2. Additionally, tubes! Highly recommend that you give that aspect of the amp it's due diligence. You don't have to spend a lot of money on exotic glass bottles but you do want to sample the variety of soundscapes possible. Whatever you acquire in terms of glass and experience will move with you to your next tube amp upgrade.
  
 Can't imagine that you would regret the purchase of the Lyr2, my bet would be that even when you do upgrade, the Lyr2 will stay with you and find it's way into a secondary or alternate setup. I'm so bat-schiit crazy that I also went searching for the Lyr1 after I already had Lyr2 so I could also roll 600mA tubes. I play and experiment with a lot of different tubes and the Vali2 and the Lyrs are on the front line of the exploration. If tubes make it through those amps, they may get swapped into the MJ2 which is used balanced primarily. But I spend a lot of quality time with the Lyrs!
  
 In this case, it sounds like saving money buys you a quicker entry and quality audio time.


----------



## Dr Metal MD

bosiemoncrieff said:


> You have vali—that's a great entry into tubes. If I were you I'd get Jotunheim. Use vali as a preamp if you want a warmer sound, leave it out if you want pure solid state. The power can't be beat until you get to Mjolnir 2. Skip Lyr, poor value and smeared sound.


 
  
 Well, I should have been specific, I have never done any tube rolling before. I always read good things about the Lyr 2, I don't know much about the first iteration of the Lyr. I thought the Lyr 2 would be great at powering my planar headphones. Are you telling me the Jotunheim is MORE powerful than the Lyr 2? What specifically do you feel makes the Jotunheim better than the Lyr 2?
  
 Cheers,


----------



## Dr Metal MD

rnros said:


> Yes, MJ2, in my experience, is the better of the two, but if you are using only SE, the difference may not be that important to you at this point.
> 
> Lyr2 is a great amp in it's own way, and I use both depending on the day and mood. Half the price but close in quality in SE mode. Coming from the Vali1 you will have a lot of upgrade qualities and power to explore and assimilate with the Lyr2. Additionally, tubes! Highly recommend that you give that aspect of the amp it's due diligence. You don't have to spend a lot of money on exotic glass bottles but you do want to sample the variety of soundscapes possible. Whatever you acquire in terms of glass and experience will move with you to your next tube amp upgrade.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for your reply. Pardon my ignorance, but what does SE stand for? Are my Hifiman 400i's capable of using balanced cables? I just need to buy them? Also, what is the benefit(s) of balanced cables over my SE ones?
  
 I really want to learn a lot about using tubes and see what all the fuss is about! Can't wait to hear the differences between various tubes. 
  
 If I save money and get the Lyr 2, I can get a lot of tubes with that extra cash.... Hopefully by the time I want to upgrade again an even better Moljner 3 will be out? I don't know, I just don't want to sit and wonder how much better the MJ2 would be over the Lyr2! I eventually want to get balanced cables and go that route with my headphones, too, if my 400i's are capable of it and if it will improve their performance.
  
 Lastly, regarding what another person recommended (above), what do you think of the Lyr 2 vs the Jotunheim for my Hifiman 400i's?
  
 Cheers!


----------



## rnros

dr metal md said:


> Thanks for your reply. Pardon my ignorance, but what does SE stand for? Are my Hifiman 400i's capable of using balanced cables? I just need to buy them? Also, what is the benefit(s) of balanced cables over my SE ones?
> _[clip]_


 
 SE = single ended vs balanced. I believe the 400i is wired for balanced. Check the website for the availability of a balanced cable.
 Balanced increases power, doubles voltage swing. Does not share a common ground as does the SE. Cleaner signal.
  
 Yes, to take full advantage of the tube option, you do need to invest some time and effort, and some cash, but as I said there are very good tubes available at very reasonable prices.
 True on amps, what will be available in the future? New upgrade options will appear. You have to start somewhere. Decide your budget, then the pull the trigger, you can't go wrong either way.
  
 Haven't heard the Jotty yet, but I am interested in the new topology. Perhaps it will be used in an upgraded version, don't really have any use for the current Jotty now.
 I do prefer tube amps, if they are clean and dynamic. Schiit tube amps are. I am convinced that anything Schiit puts out is going to be worth the listen and the purchase if it fits your need.
 Take a look at my profile, I already have more amps than I need, so I look for purchases/upgrades that will increase my knowledge and experience, while working within a budget to maximize an efficient upgrade path.
  
 You have a lot of fun ahead of you!
  
 Edit: To answer your question, both the Lyr2 and the Jotty have more power than you'll ever use on the 400i! Question comes down to which type of amp you want to play with: tube or solid state. End of the day, other people's descriptions and recommendations don't give you musical enjoyment.


----------



## Dr Metal MD

rnros said:


> SE = single ended vs balanced. I believe the 400i is wired for balanced. Check the website for the availability of a balanced cable.
> Balanced increases power, doubles voltage swing. Does not share a common ground as does the SE. Cleaner signal.
> 
> Yes, to take full advantage of the tube option, you do need to invest some time and effort, and some cash, but as I said there a very good tubes available at very reasonable prices.
> ...


 
 Thanks for your response. I found balanced cables for the Hifiman 400i's, but those cost an additional $100 or more. Don't know if I have the funds to make that investment yet and I don't know if my other equipment would really do the MJ2 justice. It would be nice to build around it though.
  
 I do like the idea of having the flexibility of tube rolling and the ability to make easy upgrades with better tubes. Plus, tubes are supposed to compliment vinyl playback better than solid state, or so I read! I want a warmer sound that still has a great soundstage and excellent details with plenty of power. The only problem with the Lyr 2 for me is that you can't have balanced cords. However, I read that the 400i's are already well-balanced. I would need to upgrade my headphone amp again to go full balanced.... The money I would save with the Lyr 2 would help with more tubes, etc. Pardon my rambling, just expressing my 'dilemma' on the issue.
  
 Do you feel like the MJ2 is TWICE as good as the Lyr 2, with stock tubes and let's say balanced headphone cords with the MJ2?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

dr metal md said:


> Thanks for your response. I found balanced cables for the Hifiman 400i's, but those cost an additional $100 or more. Don't know if I have the funds to make that investment yet and I don't know if my other equipment would really do the MJ2 justice. It would be nice to build around it though.
> 
> I do like the idea of having the flexibility of tube rolling and the ability to make easy upgrades with better tubes. Plus, tubes are supposed to compliment vinyl playback better than solid state, or so I read! I want a warmer sound that still has a great soundstage and excellent details with plenty of power. The only problem with the Lyr 2 for me is that you can't have balanced cords. However, I read that the 400i's are already well-balanced. I would need to upgrade my headphone amp again to go full balanced.... The money I would save with the Lyr 2 would help with more tubes, etc. Pardon my rambling, just expressing my 'dilemma' on the issue.
> 
> Do you feel like the MJ2 is TWICE as good as the Lyr 2, with stock tubes and let's say balanced headphone cords with the MJ2?


 
 A few points: 
  
 - I think LCD-X (or 2) might be a better investment than another amp. People get caught up in amps and DACs at the expense of better headphones. I always scratch my head when I see an HD600 owner pairing it with Liquid Gold or some such toy.
 - Lyr 2 might work if you want tubes to calibrate the warmth (blur) to your liking, some power, and don't expect to get a better headphone than the 400i. Balanced (for me) is a way of life, and my note about Vali softening Jotunheim was cheapest way I could think of to marry warmth to clarity and power.
 - With stock tubes, MJ2 (like Lyr) is unremarkable. It's with iFi, Amperax, and Reflektor that you see true gains. That said, personal preferences, subjectivity, and diminishing returns make the last point almost unanswerable, and I won't assign a number value to something for which quantification would be the appearance of objectivity rather than objectivity itself. I will say the soundstage and transparency are both dramatically stepped up in MJ2.


----------



## Dr Metal MD

bosiemoncrieff said:


> A few points:
> 
> - I think LCD-X (or 2) might be a better investment than another amp. People get caught up in amps and DACs at the expense of better headphones. I always scratch my head when I see an HD600 owner pairing it with Liquid Gold or some such toy.
> - Lyr 2 might work if you want tubes to calibrate the warmth (blur) to your liking, some power, and don't expect to get a better headphone than the 400i. Balanced (for me) is a way of life, and my note about Vali softening Jotunheim was cheapest way I could think of to marry warmth to clarity and power.
> - With stock tubes, MJ2 (like Lyr) is unremarkable. It's with iFi, Amperax, and Reflektor that you see true gains. That said, personal preferences, subjectivity, and diminishing returns make the last point almost unanswerable, and I won't assign a number value to something for which quantification would be the appearance of objectivity rather than objectivity itself. I will say the soundstage and transparency are both dramatically stepped up in MJ2.


 
  
 I don't expect to get better headphones for some years now, but I could easily afford balanced cables eventually. Really wished the Lyr 2 had that option. My headphones certainly aren't the limiting factor for sound quality in my setup. I think right now it's my Vali 1 and my Denon DL 110 cartridge, which is amazing for the money but could be improved on if I jump up to the $500 dollar range. Thanks for the insight. You keep making me want to jump for the MJ2 haha! I think over time, I'd get more mileage with the MJ2 and it would remain in my home setup longer, but I would save a lot more in the near future with the Lyr 2 that I could apply towards tubes and a new cartridge, which in all likelihood would improve the sound quality I'm hearing through my 400i's more than if I just bought the MJ2 alone. Please let me know if you disagree with this. Also, keep in mind that my only experience with tubes is with the Vali 1, and those are 'micro' tubes. So, I have 0 experience with tube rolling and the Vali is one of the only headphone amplifiers I've ever listened to. I think even a stock Lyr 2 and MJ2 will initially blow me away just relative to what I'm used to. Once my budget increases significantly in 5 or so years, then I can afford more components on the same 'level' as the MJ2.


----------



## westermac

bosiemoncrieff said:


> - I think LCD-X (or 2) might be a better investment than another amp. People get caught up in amps and DACs at the expense of better headphones. I always scratch my head when I see an HD600 owner pairing it with Liquid Gold or some such toy.




I respectfully disagree (at least with regard to the HD600)  after having gone through a number of higher end cans (LCD-2/2F, LCD-X, LCD-XC, ETHER, ETHER C, HD800, SR-007 MkII, SR-L700 to name a few) with midrange amps (Liquid Carbon, WA6, MJ2, etc) and have found the HD600/modded Hd650 better all around than any of them, particularly in frequency response. Any of these cans beat the HD6x0 in a few technicalities, but in my experience the Sennheisers scale very well with good amplification, and better so than some much higher priced cans. Thoroughly enjoying them with the MJ2, and have sold all the rest.


----------



## Dr Metal MD

Wonder what your guys' opinions are on this. How significant of an upgrade would the Lyr 2 or the MJ2 be over my Vali 1? Night and day immediate improvement or just a minor improvement that takes some listening to fully appreciate?


----------



## rnros

dr metal md said:


> I don't expect to get better headphones for some years now, but I could easily afford balanced cables eventually. Really wished the Lyr 2 had that option. My headphones certainly aren't the limiting factor for sound quality in my setup. I think right now it's my Vali 1 and my Denon DL 110 cartridge, which is amazing for the money but could be improved on if I jump up to the $500 dollar range. Thanks for the insight. You keep making me want to jump for the MJ2 haha! I think over time, I'd get more mileage with the MJ2 and it would remain in my home setup longer, but I would save a lot more in the near future with the Lyr 2 that I could apply towards tubes and a new cartridge, which in all likelihood would improve the sound quality I'm hearing through my 400i's more than if I just bought the MJ2 alone. Please let me know if you disagree with this. Also, keep in mind that my only experience with tubes is with the Vali 1, and those are 'micro' tubes. So, I have 0 experience with tube rolling and the Vali is one of the only headphone amplifiers I've ever listened to. I think even a stock Lyr 2 and MJ2 will initially blow me away just relative to what I'm used to. Once my budget increases significantly in 5 or so years, then I can afford more components on the same 'level' as the MJ2.


 

 Sounds like you are ready for the MJ2. If you can do the MJ2 now, by all means, do it. Highly recommended, lots of immediate enjoyment plus added function for exploration.
 And yes, of course, it's better than the Lyr2.     In the same way, if you were looking for a DAC, and could afford a Gumby, why would you settle for a Bimby? Common sense.
 Schiit equipment does scale with price level.


----------



## rnros

dr metal md said:


> Wonder what your guys' opinions are on this. How significant of an upgrade would the Lyr 2 or the MJ2 be over my Vali 1? Night and day immediate improvement or just a minor improvement that takes some listening to fully appreciate?


 

 Immediate improvement, unless you have a problem with source or power.


----------



## Dr Metal MD

rnros said:


> Sounds like you are ready for the MJ2. If you can do the MJ2 now, by all means, do it. Highly recommended, lots of immediate enjoyment plus added function for exploration.
> And yes, of course, it's better than the Lyr2.     In the same way, if you were looking for a DAC, and could afford a Gumby, why would you settle for a Bimby? Common sense.
> Schiit equipment does scale with price level.


 
  
  


rnros said:


> Immediate improvement, unless you have a problem with source or power.


 
  
 That's true. Do you feel the MJ2 is TWICE as good as the Lyr 2, though? With that extra $400 I would save, I could get some socket savers, better tubes, and really make a dent in getting a better cartridge, which I feel would end up resulting in better sound quality than if I ONLY bought the MJ2. I think headphone amplification and my cartridge are the next logical steps in terms of upgrade. I'd have spend a heck of a lot more in order to get a significant improvement in performance with a turntable or phono stage, I think. The Lyr 2 would be a great stepping stone for me that would give me a lot of mileage until I could afford an MJ or something comparable/better, whereas the MJ2 would be more of an 'end-game' component for quite awhile.... Cough up more money immediately or save more now, still get a great amp and wait until I can better afford an MJ or better and surround it with even better components than I have right now? haha


----------



## franzdom

dr metal md said:


> That's true. Do you feel the MJ2 is TWICE as good as the Lyr 2, though? With that extra $400 I would save, I could get some socket savers, better tubes, and really make a dent in getting a better cartridge, which I feel would end up resulting in better sound quality than if I ONLY bought the MJ2. I think headphone amplification and my cartridge are the next logical steps in terms of upgrade. I'd have spend a heck of a lot more in order to get a significant improvement in performance with a turntable or phono stage, I think. The Lyr 2 would be a great stepping stone for me that would give me a lot of mileage until I could afford an MJ or something comparable/better, whereas the MJ2 would be more of an 'end-game' component for quite awhile.... Cough up more money immediately or save more now, still get a great amp and wait until I can better afford an MJ or better and surround it with even better components than I have right now? haha


 
  
 My take on this is skip the Lyr 2. I didn't have a Vali but I did have a Lyr 2. I was fine with the Lyr 2 until I got the Mjolnir 2. It is a big step up. You will eventually have one even if you move to Lyr now, I am fairly confident. Why don't you stick with Vali and work on those other items until you are really ready for a new amp and save for the MJ2?


----------



## Dr Metal MD

franzdom said:


> My take on this is skip the Lyr 2. I didn't have a Vali but I did have a Lyr 2. I was fine with the Lyr 2 until I got the Mjolnir 2. It is a big step up. You will eventually have one even if you move to Lyr now, I am fairly confident. Why don't you stick with Vali and work on those other items until you are really ready for a new amp and save for the MJ2?


 
  
 Thanks for your views. My gut tells me to wait and save for a MJ2. However, it would then easily be my most expensive component in my system. I don't know how appropriate it is to have a headphone amp be the most expensive part of your system by almost $400-$500 ha. My question now is do I keep more of a budget, most 'bang for your buck' setup or do I start collecting higher profile components, like the MJ2. If I got the Lyr 2 though, by the the time I am 'ready' to upgrade it and have other components on the same 'level' as the MJ2, there will likely be an MJ3. Still have to do a lot of thinking on this...


----------



## franzdom

You mentioned Audeze. That is where I would start. I am kookoo for coacoapuffs over Audeze. Start with a good used pr of LCD-2 around 600 and you will be so far down the rabbit hole you won't know what hit you. They the MJ2 won't seem that crazy when it does happen.
  
 Oh and BTW I am now listening to classic vinyl, reunited very recently with my collection from the 80's that I haven't seen for 27 years. It is very surprisingly enjoyable and good sounding.


----------



## tjl5709

dr metal md said:


> That's true. Do you feel the MJ2 is TWICE as good as the Lyr 2, though? With that extra $400 I would save, I could get some socket savers, better tubes, and really make a dent in getting a better cartridge, which I feel would end up resulting in better sound quality than if I ONLY bought the MJ2. I think headphone amplification and my cartridge are the next logical steps in terms of upgrade. I'd have spend a heck of a lot more in order to get a significant improvement in performance with a turntable or phono stage, I think. The Lyr 2 would be a great stepping stone for me that would give me a lot of mileage until I could afford an MJ or something comparable/better, whereas the MJ2 would be more of an 'end-game' component for quite awhile.... Cough up more money immediately or save more now, still get a great amp and wait until I can better afford an MJ or better and surround it with even better components than I have right now? haha


 

 I recently ran into an issue with my MJ2 and had to send it in for some repairs. Having moved from a Lyr 2, which I kept for a secondary system, I had the opportunity to AB them thru my Yggy upon it's return. I ran a quad set of Valvo CCa's to keep the signal chain some what equal. The MJ2 is not twice as good thats for sure. I would put the mids equal, and the differences I noted were clarity, smoothness, and resolution at the top and bottom. The bass had more impact. The highs were cleaner. If MJ2 is 10, Lyr2 would be 8.5 - 9. IMHO


----------



## Dr Metal MD

franzdom said:


> You mentioned Audeze. That is where I would start. I am kookoo for coacoapuffs over Audeze. Start with a good used pr of LCD-2 around 600 and you will be so far down the rabbit hole you won't know what hit you. They the MJ2 won't seem that crazy when it does happen.
> 
> Oh and BTW I am now listening to classic vinyl, reunited very recently with my collection from the 80's that I haven't seen for 27 years. It is very surprisingly enjoyable and good sounding.


 
 Didn't know you get could Audeze that cheap! Great to hear!  I don't know if my budget can afford that rabbit hole trip just yet, unfortunately. I sure and ready to head down it though haha. Glad to hear you dug out your classic vinyl. I love the hobby and really do enjoy the sound of vinyl over digit. I admittedly have never listened to digital through a great CD player and a great DAC though. 
  


tjl5709 said:


> I recently ran into an issue with my MJ2 and had to send it in for some repairs. Having moved from a Lyr 2, which I kept for a secondary system, I had the opportunity to AB them thru my Yggy upon it's return. I ran a quad set of Valvo CCa's to keep the signal chain some what equal. The MJ2 is not twice as good thats for sure. I would put the mids equal, and the differences I noted were clarity, smoothness, and resolution at the top and bottom. The bass had more impact. The highs were cleaner. If MJ2 is 10, Lyr2 would be 8.5 - 9. IMHO


 
 Thanks for your input. I appreciate it. I can deal with a 8.5-9/10 for awhile until I can afford the 10, I think.


----------



## franzdom

Nothing wrong with that route at all, sounds like you are ready for Lyr 2. For the money it is an amazing piece of Schiit!


----------



## Dr Metal MD

franzdom said:


> Nothing wrong with that route at all, sounds like you are ready for Lyr 2. For the money it is an amazing piece of Schiit!


 
  
 Hahaha cheers. I love that their company is named Schiit and pronounced just the same. I really want the MJ2, just can't break the bank in my current life situation.


----------



## Delayeed

dr metal md said:


> Hahaha cheers. I love that their company is named Schiit and pronounced just the same. I really want the MJ2, just can't break the bank in my current life situation.


 
 FWIW I have planned to save up for 7 months to finish my setup as I'd rather save up for big more permanent upgrades than do small upgrades all the time and lose money anyway selling the old stuff.


----------



## Dr Metal MD

delayeed said:


> FWIW I have planned to save up for 7 months to finish my setup as I'd rather save up for big more permanent upgrades than do small upgrades all the time and lose money anyway selling the old stuff.


 
  
 That's an excellent point, and I've been thinking about that for awhile. I need to keep thinking on it. I was hoping to get something to last 5 years until my budget is significantly higher when I can better afford much better equipment.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I mean, Vali lasted me half a year, and while it doesn't power HD800 with the authoritah! of Mjolnir 2, it has a sweet, sweet tone that pairs well, I would assume, with the more abrasive metal genres.


----------



## Dr Metal MD

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I mean, Vali lasted me half a year, and while it doesn't power HD800 with the authoritah! of Mjolnir 2, it has a sweet, sweet tone that pairs well, I would assume, with the more abrasive metal genres.


 
  
 I've had the Vali for a year or a year and a half now. I have certainly enjoyed it, just looking for an upgrade. Maybe I'll try to talk myself into sticking with it and really saving up for a higher quality upgrade.


----------



## Here2rock

Does this AMP has a built in DAC or you need to allow for additional funds for the purchase?
  
 Does Schiit make a matching DAC for this AMP?


----------



## Delayeed

here2rock said:


> Does this AMP has a built in DAC or you need to allow for additional funds for the purchase?
> 
> Does Schiit make a matching DAC for this AMP?


 
 Doesn't have a built in DAC.
 Gungnir / Gungnir Multibit stacks with this amp. Check out their site for info.


----------



## Carcajou

here2rock said:


> Does this AMP has a built in DAC or you need to allow for additional funds for the purchase?
> 
> Does Schiit make a matching DAC for this AMP?


 
 Schiit aren't fans of integrated Amp/DAC combos. Since technology for DACs evolves at a different pace than technology for Amps, their point is that you'd have to get rid of a perfectly good amp to upgrade your DAC to the newest technology. 
  
 Their only full-sized Amp/DAC combo is the Jotunheim, and they made sure that the DAC module could be easily replaced. You should check it out if that's what you're looking for, I haven't listened to it but reviews are pretty good!


----------



## Here2rock

carcajou said:


> Schiit aren't fans of integrated Amp/DAC combos. Since technology for DACs evolves at a different pace than technology for Amps, their point is that you'd have to get rid of a perfectly good amp to upgrade your DAC to the newest technology.
> 
> Their only full-sized Amp/DAC combo is the Jotunheim, and they made sure that the DAC module could be easily replaced. You should check it out if that's what you're looking for, I haven't listened to it but reviews are pretty good!


 
  
 While it is a good logic but why the DAC technology move so much faster than an AMP? Not to mentioned that you basically double your purchase costs.
  
 Is there a substantial difference between separate set up like this or let's say Wao Audio WA7 AMP/DAC combo? I would imagine that the returns will be very minimal.


----------



## westermac

here2rock said:


> While it is a good logic but why the DAC technology move so much faster than an AMP? Not to mentioned that you basically double your purchase costs.
> 
> Is there a substantial difference between separate set up like this or let's say Wao Audio WA7 AMP/DAC combo? I would imagine that the returns will be very minimal.




May be wrong, but I think it's because power amplifiers (and headphone amplifiers by extension) precede commercial digital music by about 60 years, so you could say it's more "mature" or developed as a technology, whereas high res digital audio in particular is a relatively recent thing. That and we are still very much in the midst of a digital revolution, where transistors continue to shrink and new technologies are constantly being developed. 

That being said, I think a lot of the improvements over the past 10 years are incremental, given that the Benchmark DAC1 is still a respected DAC more than a decade after its release, so I don't think a good DAC will depreciate at the same rate as this year's iPhone.


----------



## Carcajou

westermac said:


> May be wrong, but I think it's because power amplifiers (and headphone amplifiers by extension) precede commercial digital music by about 60 years, so you could say it's more "mature" or developed as a technology, whereas high res digital audio in particular is a relatively recent thing. That and we are still very much in the midst of a digital revolution, where transistors continue to shrink and new technologies are constantly being developed.
> 
> That being said, I think a lot of the improvements over the past 10 years are incremental, given that the Benchmark DAC1 is still a respected DAC more than a decade after its release, so I don't think a good DAC will depreciate at the same rate as this year's iPhone.




I agree with you, westermac. I too think that marginal returns of new technology are diminishing, dollar for dollar (speaking of DACs here). 

Here2rock, I don't think you're really doubling the purchase costs. If you wanted an integrated Mjolnir2-Gungnir combo you'd be looking at a piece retailing for way more than $850. The components inside the DAC have an inherent value and so does the time required to assemble them. You'd basically be saving the cost of a chassis and a power supply (I'm oversimplifying but I think you get the point).


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

There are vintage amps from the '70s that power current gear like the HE-6 or K1000 marvelously. 
  
 Even Mike's stuff from Theta has been superseded by Yggdrasil, and USB technology is only improving. Thunderbolt Gen 3, which uses the same plug as USB-C and can also communicate the USB-3.1 standard, just appeared on the MacBook Pro (and within a year, I assume, will appear Apple's complete line). Unlike Thunderbolt 1/2, which needed a separate port, this port has the ability to be the new ubiquitous USB-A, with USB 3 and Thunderbolt 3 everywhere. I can't see a reason Apple's desktop competitors won't include it on their devices. I can't see why Apple's mobile competitors won't put on phones and tablets and tout it as a differentiating feature (they would be leaving money on the table not to do so: micro and mini USB ports are non-reversible).
  
 The WA5 from a few years ago is still amazing, ditto DNA Stratus, BHSE, Liquid Lightning—I could go on.


----------



## watchnerd

here2rock said:


> While it is a good logic but why the DAC technology move so much faster than an AMP?


 
  
 Because amplification within the power range needed by headphones is a solved problem.
  
 There comes a point where further innovation is no longer necessary or gives diminishing returns.  Nobody (sane) wastes time trying to invent a better spoon.
  
 The circlotron topology, used (but with transistors instead of tubes) in Schiit's best amps (Ragnarok and Mjolnir 2), dates back to the 1950s.
  
 Have DACs also become a solved problem? It seems like we're approaching that point...


----------



## Here2rock

westermac said:


> May be wrong, but I think it's because power amplifiers (and headphone amplifiers by extension) precede commercial digital music by about 60 years, so you could say it's more "mature" or developed as a technology, whereas high res digital audio in particular is a relatively recent thing. That and we are still very much in the midst of a digital revolution, where transistors continue to shrink and new technologies are constantly being developed.
> 
> That being said, I think a lot of the improvements over the past 10 years are incremental, given that the Benchmark DAC1 is still a respected DAC more than a decade after its release, so I don't think a good DAC will depreciate at the same rate as this year's iPhone.




I thought that DAC technology had been around since CD players, around 1982. That is a long time. 

Apple's iPhone 7 has a DAC built into a $20 adapter cable, surely Schiit' s DAC costing $900 can't be that much different to demand such a premium over Apple.


----------



## Here2rock

carcajou said:


> I agree with you, westermac. I too think that marginal returns of new technology are diminishing, dollar for dollar (speaking of DACs here).
> 
> Here2rock, I don't think you're really doubling the purchase costs. If you wanted an integrated Mjolnir2-Gungnir combo you'd be looking at a piece retailing for way more than $850. The components inside the DAC have an inherent value and so does the time required to assemble them. You'd basically be saving the cost of a chassis and a power supply (I'm oversimplifying but I think you get the point).




What I meant was that you could buy a decent AMP/ DAC for $1000. Separates would cost $850 x 2. 

What is the equivalent or close enough to Mjolnir 2 in integrated amp/DAC form?


----------



## Here2rock

watchnerd said:


> Because amplification within the power range needed by headphones is a solved problem.
> 
> There comes a point where further innovation is no longer necessary or gives diminishing returns.  Nobody (sane) wastes time trying to invent a better spoon.
> 
> ...




I thought that DAC would be a solved problem by now, how important is DAC? I thought DAC had a simple task of just converting the digital signal to analogue signal, what more does it feed to an Amp? I thought the Amp provided the dynamic range and other sound qualities to the music you are listening or is it the other way around?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

here2rock said:


> Apple's iPhone 7 has a DAC built into a $20 adapter cable, surely Schiit' s DAC costing $900 can't be that much different to demand such a premium over Apple.




Audition a multibit dac for yourself. Until then are claims cannot help your troll-ish skepticism. After that, they are redundant.


----------



## westermac

here2rock said:


> I thought that DAC technology had been around since CD players, around 1982. That is a long time.
> 
> Apple's iPhone 7 has a DAC built into a $20 adapter cable, surely Schiit' s DAC costing $900 can't be that much different to demand such a premium over Apple.


 

 Right, and audio amplifiers have been around since around 1910.
  
 The Schiit DAC would absolutely be better, but whether it's $1000 better is purely subjective (maybe sometime you can hear one and decide for yourself)
  
 At any rate... that was a fun rabbit hole but how about we go back to talking about the Mjolnir 2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 What are everyone's favorite affordable tubes so far (by affordable I mean non-7308, CCa, Siemens, Valvo etc).
  
 I recently got a pair of 5670/6N3 adapters and have been enjoying the 6N3P-E's as well as some black-plate GL-5670's (so far I prefer the 5670's by a slight margin). I have a batch of label-less small-o getter Amperex 6DJ8's coming as well that I'm looking forward to. Much as I like the idea of "Holy Grail" tubes I'd rather find something I enjoy which I can afford to have several pairs of and be set for the next decade or so.


----------



## Here2rock

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Audition a multibit dac for yourself. Until then are claims cannot help your troll-ish skepticism. After that, they are redundant.


 
  
 It is probably not best my questions in this particular forum. I leave  you guys back to back to the topic on Schiit Mjolnir.


----------



## rmoody

here2rock said:


> I thought that DAC would be a solved problem by now, how important is DAC? I thought DAC had a simple task of just converting the digital signal to analogue signal, what more does it feed to an Amp? I thought the Amp provided the dynamic range and other sound qualities to the music you are listening or is it the other way around?


 

 I could ask this:
  
 I thought an amp would be a solved problem by now, how important is an amp? I thought amps had a simple task of just amplifying the analog signal to an audible volume, what more does it feed to headphones? I thought the DAC provided the analog signal and other sound qualities to the music you are listening or is it the other way around?
  
 But that would be smart allec. 
  
 On a serious note, neither the DAC or amp should color the sound artificially in my opinion. Both should be tasked with faithfully and accurately reproducing the original intent of the artist and producer. Some amps are better than others,  and some DACs are better than others. Sometimes you even get what you pay for. Sometimes you can't hear the difference (most of the time I can't). Transducers are the most important component. To me, second is amp. But many say otherwise. I won't argue, just get whatever makes you smile when you listen.


----------



## watchnerd

rmoody said:


> Transducers are the most important component.


 
  
 I don't think anyone serious disagrees with this.
  
 Transducers have orders of magnitude more measurable distortion.  Not a lot of speaker makers publish distortion specs, but here is one for an Eve Audio SC207 monitor:
  

  
 Even above 200 Hz, distortion is in the .10-.20% range.  
  
 Compare that to the bottom-of-the rung Schiit Magni 2:
  
THD: Less than 0.003%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 1V RMS 
IMD: Less than 0.004%, CCIF 
 
That makes the speaker 100x more distorted than even the cheapie Magni 2 (at 1 V).


----------



## Delayeed

How "gimped" is the single-ended headphone out? Looks like I'm going to have to run it single-ended for a while when I get it next month.


----------



## watchnerd

delayeed said:


> How "gimped" is the single-ended headphone out? Looks like I'm going to have to run it single-ended for a while when I get it next month.


 
  
 I alternate between the SE and XLR headphone jacks depending on which headphones I"m using.
  
 The tonal qualities are the same.  The XLR puts out more power, but it's waaaaaaaay more than I need for my phones. The SE jack has more than enough power for the cans I own.
  
 TLDR: SE isn't gimped at all, same quality, just less power than the overkill of the XLR jacks.


----------



## Mr Rick

here2rock said:


> I thought that DAC technology had been around since CD players, around 1982. That is a long time.
> 
> Apple's iPhone 7 has a DAC built into a $20 adapter cable, surely Schiit' s DAC costing $900 can't be that much different to demand such a premium over Apple.


 
  
 I worked making DACs for the medical instrumentation industry in the early 70's. Patents for early DACs date back to the late 1930's


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

One reason I haven't yet dropped the $100 on the iFi tubes is that everyone calls my '68 amperax more 'euphonic,' and i still find my HE-6s occasionally sibilant. I need all the euphony I can get.


----------



## jmac1516

I have seen a few people comment on the Mjolnir 2 pairing with the Senn 800 with generally favorable impressions.  Any recent impressions with the Mjolnir 2 and Senn 800S?  Positive or negative?  SS vs tube mode?  Any dacs you feel work well with these two?  
  
 Thanks for your insights!


----------



## blance44

jmac1516 said:


> I have seen a few people comment on the Mjolnir 2 pairing with the Senn 800 with generally favorable impressions.  Any recent impressions with the Mjolnir 2 and Senn 800S?  Positive or negative?  SS vs tube mode?  Any dacs you feel work well with these two?
> 
> Thanks for your insights!


 
 I have Sennheiser HD800's paired with the Mjolnir 2 with ifi tubes and Gungnir Multibit. I seriously enjoy the setup. I'm still trying to decide if I want to upgrade to a Ragnarok and Yggdrasil as I still haven't heard either of them but as for the pairing of the HD800 and MJ2, it really is incredible! All I can really say is upgrade the stock tubes to the ifi tubes. Stock, I didn't hear much extension in the treble and a general haziness in the high frequencies. The ifi tubes fixed that and added better separation and a wider soundstage. It's almost like everything was a little bit out of focus with the stock tubes and the ifi tubes brought everything into crystal clear perfection. The HD800 and Mjolnir 2 with the right tubes sound like a match made in heaven.
  
 Sorry about the write up, I'm not much of a writer. If you have any questions or would like further clarification on something, don't hesitate to ask.


----------



## jmac1516

blance44 said:


> I have Sennheiser HD800's paired with the Mjolnir 2 with ifi tubes and Gungnir Multibit. I seriously enjoy the setup.


 
  
 Hi blance44.  Thanks for your observations.  Can you confirm your cans?  800 or 800S?
  
 Also, do you have any observations regarding your Senns and Mjolnir 2 in solid state?  I assume not as ideal vs the upgraded tubes but curious.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## blance44

jmac1516 said:


> Hi blance44.  Thanks for your observations.  Can you confirm your cans?  800 or 800S?
> 
> Also, do you have any observations regarding your Senns and Mjolnir 2 in solid state?  I assume not as ideal vs the upgraded tubes but curious.
> 
> Thanks.


 
 I have the Sennheiser HD800. 
  
 I tried the LISST tubes for a very short amount of time. I felt as though the treble had more grain to it and the soundstage was a bit closer than with tubes. With those two things in mind, I didn't find them to be right for the HD800. I could see the LISST working well with planars like the Audeze lcd 2 but not anything as accurate and detailed as the HD800.


----------



## Furiousipaduser

So when I plug my uerm into the se out I hear a faint hum on the right channel.  I cant hear it with hd800 or thx00 is this normal? I bought it off some one so I'd have to do a out of warranty repair.  I also swapped liist, and checked diffrent power outlets around the house with the same results from the right channel.  You cant hear the hum while music is playing, I asked a friend and he said its probably just too much power for the ciem  since my agd 1amp makes a low hum too.


----------



## DejanM

If you are playing with tubes for Mjolnir 2 try Russian 6N23P-EV. They are among the best and do have very reasonable price, especially when compared to NOS E88CC from Telefunken or Siemens.


----------



## blance44

I've heard great things about those tubes! I'll have to give them a try some time.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Why is there a seam in the aluminum about an inch in on the bottom? It would be invisible except that I have it perpendicular to my desk and it sticks out. Would it be significantly more expensive without this?


----------



## rmoody

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Why is there a seam in the aluminum about an inch in on the bottom? It would be invisible except that I have it perpendicular to my desk and it sticks out. Would it be significantly more expensive without this?


 

 From Jason's book, the Mjolnir/Gungnir chassis is longer than Bifrost/Asgard chassis. Because of this, the metal shop was unable to create a single piece chassis with the same U bend as their metal breaks are not capable of making that deep of a 45 degree bend. So, a compromise was made using a J shape for the top of the chassis and a flat plate for the bottom. This also made final assembly a bit easier when getting those LEDs lined up. Basically, it would be impossible to build the chassis as designed without this.


----------



## TsKen

Can I use my chord mojo as the dac with the mjolnir 2? Are they compatible/good match for each other?


----------



## Delayeed

tsken said:


> Can I use my chord mojo as the dac with the mjolnir 2? Are they compatible/good match for each other?


 
 Yes they are compatible. I'm going to order the MJ2 real soon actually to amp my Mojo and Ether C/HD600. Just use a 3.5mm to dual RCA and you're good to go. Haven't seen any impressions of those two together though so also interested.


----------



## watchnerd

tsken said:


> Can I use my chord mojo as the dac with the mjolnir 2? Are they compatible/good match for each other?


 
  
 Any competent DAC is a good fit for the Mjolnir 2.  The more relevant question is if the Mjolnir 2 is a good match to your headphones.


----------



## Delayeed

watchnerd said:


> Any competent DAC is a good fit for the Mjolnir 2.  The more relevant question is if the Mjolnir 2 is a good match to your headphones.


 
 Also if the Mojo is a "competent DAC" it lacks extension bothways, also soundstage on its own... Maybe it feeding line-out into an the Mjolnir 2 will add those things back kind of like a high gain switch on some amps. Remains to be seen though but I'm hopeful.


----------



## watchnerd

delayeed said:


> Also if the Mojo is a "competent DAC" it lacks extension bothways


 
  
 Not sure what you mean by this.  Are you say it's rolled off at the low and high end?
  
 Are you using it to drive headphones directly?


----------



## Delayeed

watchnerd said:


> Not sure what you mean by this.  Are you say it's rolled off at the low and high end?
> 
> Are you using it to drive headphones directly?


 
 Yes and yes.


----------



## watchnerd

delayeed said:


> Yes and yes.


 
  
 Well, as a DAC the Mojo might be competent.  But as an amp...?
  
 Whether it is or isn't competent as a headphone amp is going to depend a lot on what it's driving as its power output isn't very impressive: 35mW at 600 ohms vs 425 mW at 600 ohms for the Mjolnir 2.
  
 In other words, the MJ2 puts out 10x the power.


----------



## Naugrim

Similar to a previous commenter, I'm going to sell my Bifrost/Asgard 2 stack and get an MJ2. Going to use my Mojo as my DAC for a bit until I can afford another desktop one. I'll be back with impressions after the transactions are final.


----------



## Delayeed

naugrim said:


> Similar to a previous commenter, I'm going to sell my Bifrost/Asgard 2 stack and get an MJ2. Going to use my Mojo as my DAC for a bit until I can afford another desktop one. I'll be back with impressions after the transactions are final.


 
 Very nice! Can't wait to hear your thoughts.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I would never give up my beloved Bimby, but MJ2 is an exceptional amp, capable of driving _any_ headphone satisfactorily. HE-6 and K1000 test it most, and even they sound great on it, though they are both capable of more (when your wallet recovers).


----------



## Rowethren

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I would never give up my beloved Bimby, but MJ2 is an exceptional amp, capable of driving _any_ headphone satisfactorily. HE-6 and K1000 test it most, and even they sound great on it, though they are both capable of more (when your wallet recovers).




Wouldn't even give up your Bifrost for a shiny new Gumby?


----------



## Naugrim

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I would never give up my beloved Bimby, but MJ2 is an exceptional amp, capable of driving _any_ headphone satisfactorily. HE-6 and K1000 test it most, and even they sound great on it, though they are both capable of more (when your wallet recovers).


 
 Don't make me go Rag


----------



## TsKen

watchnerd said:


> Well, as a DAC the Mojo might be competent.  But as an amp...?
> 
> Whether it is or isn't competent as a headphone amp is going to depend a lot on what it's driving as its power output isn't very impressive: 35mW at 600 ohms vs 425 mW at 600 ohms for the Mjolnir 2.
> 
> In other words, the MJ2 puts out 10x the power.


 
 The Mojo is a bit too weak for certain headphones like the HD 800 and HD 650. 
  
 IMO the Mojo serves 2 roles.
  
 Portable source and as a standalone DAC.
  
 When I drive the HD 800 straight out of the Mojo, it sounds thin and unimpressive.
  
 Off the Crack speedball + Chord Mojo, the sound has more body and there is that warmy gooey sound that everyone likes from the crack.
  
 I have a ZMF Eikon(neutral headphone) coming in a few months.
  
 Anyone have any thoughts on the Crack speedball vs Mjolnir 2?
  
 Maybe it's better to stick with the Crack speedball instead.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

As I recall, crack speedball is more in line with Vali 2 in terms of detail retrieval and overall transparency. Great entry level tube amp but not capable of the Mjolnir 2's authoritah!


----------



## mbze430

naugrim said:


> Similar to a previous commenter, I'm going to sell my Bifrost/Asgard 2 stack and get an MJ2. Going to use my Mojo as my DAC for a bit until I can afford another desktop one. I'll be back with impressions after the transactions are final.


 
  
  
 Let us all know how it turns out.  I am also looking to get the mjolnir-2 to be paired with the Mojo.  The Mojo is definitely underpowered for my LCD3.


----------



## TsKen

bosiemoncrieff said:


> As I recall, crack speedball is more in line with Vali 2 in terms of detail retrieval and overall transparency. Great entry level tube amp but not capable of the Mjolnir 2's authoritah!


 
 A question to the Mjolnir 2 owners.
  
 I just got mine yesterday and I hooked it up to my modi multibit....
  
 Problem is that it doesn't drive my HD 650 or HD 800 loud enough..
  
 I'm honestly surprised because I thought the Mjolnir 2 is suppose to be extremely powerful.
  
 I have it turned up maxed 100% volume and the knob turned all the way on high gain and it's only moderately loud with my HD 650.
  
 Am I doing something wrong?
  
 It's surprising that my crack speedball can drive both my headphones and the volume better than the mjolnir 2.
  
 I'm using LISST tubes btw.
  
 With other tubes, it gets loud enough at MAX volume...
  
 did I get a defective Mjolnir 2?...


----------



## wasupdog

There's either something wrong with the amp or how you hooked everything up. It should be plenty loud by the time the volume knob is at 10 to 11.


----------



## TsKen

wasupdog said:


> There's either something wrong with the amp or how you hooked everything up. It should be plenty loud by the time the volume knob is at 10 to 11.


 
 I have it maxed and it's soo much quieter than my speedball crack.
  
 Sigh, so disappointed. I went back to my speedball crack and it sounds better and it drives my HD 650/HD800 to higher volume as well.


----------



## cskippy

Do you only have the Liist tubes? Also try it with a different source. I did have a similar problem when I bought a used MJ2. Max volume was still too quiet. Also, switching gain settings put the amp in protection mode. I ended up returning it. I hope you get it working because I know its a great amp and I still want to try it again someday.


----------



## TsKen

cskippy said:


> Do you only have the Liist tubes? Also try it with a different source. I did have a similar problem when I bought a used MJ2. Max volume was still too quiet. Also, switching gain settings put the amp in protection mode. I ended up returning it. I hope you get it working because I know its a great amp and I still want to try it again someday.


 
 I have the stock tubes and the Sylvania tubes as well.
  
 I tried it with my Chord Mojo which actually gets loud enough if I increase the volume on my dac(Chord Mojo).
  
 But that's not really amping it through the Mjolnir 2 but through the Chord Mojo instead....
  
 When I run the Chord Mojo + Speedball crack, I barely have to increaes the volume on the Chord Mojo.
  
 It sounds like I have the same problem as you. 
  
 Did you have to pay any shipping fees when you returned it?
  
 I'm kind of annoyed because first Fedex lost my package and I had to wait much longer to receive my Mjolnir 2. In addition to all of this, my Mjolnir 2 is defective and I probably have to pay $40-50 to ship it back to Schiit.. Hope they don't charge the 5% fee on me for returning a defective product.


----------



## watchnerd

tsken said:


> A question to the Mjolnir 2 owners.
> 
> I just got mine yesterday and I hooked it up to my modi multibit....
> 
> ...


 
  
 Which gain setting are you using?
  
 The MJ2 puts out way more power than you need for Sennheisers.


----------



## TsKen

watchnerd said:


> Which gain setting are you using?
> 
> The MJ2 puts out way more power than you need for Sennheisers.


 
 I'm using the high-gain.
  
 The Low-gain is pretty much unusable because it's wayyy too quiet


----------



## DivergeUnify

tsken said:


> I'm using the high-gain.
> 
> The Low-gain is pretty much unusable because it's wayyy too quiet


 are you using xlr or quarter inch?


----------



## TsKen

divergeunify said:


> are you using xlr or quarter inch?


 
 quarter inch


----------



## cskippy

You could email Schiit.  See what they say.  Do try it in another location, different source, power cord, etc just to rule everything out.  Also, don't have anything else hooked up except rca cables and headphones.


----------



## DivergeUnify

tsken said:


> quarter inch


 it's not a very powerful amp unless you're using it in balanced configuration via XLR.

Balanced is 8w into 32 ohm.
Unbalanced aka quarter inch is only 2w.

It still should be pretty loud anyways so maybe something is aloof in your PC settinga


----------



## Rowethren

Even single ended max volume should be enough to explode your ears to be honest... I would email support about it.


----------



## watchnerd

divergeunify said:


> Unbalanced aka quarter inch is only 2w.


 
  
 Only 2W, aka 2000mW.
  
 Do you know how insanely overpowered that is for most cans?
  
 We're talking Sennheisers, here...not the deep end of the pool.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Yeah quarter inch is quite tame. I always need to put it on high gain for the unbalanced Q701 (when I use it, which is rare).


----------



## zabzaf

I've owned M2 and the original before that. Something is wrong. That thing is insanely powerful on every headphone it's driven. Schiit support should be able to assist you.


----------



## FLTWS

zabzaf said:


> I've owned M2 and the original before that. Something is wrong. That thing is insanely powerful on every headphone it's driven. Schiit support should be able to assist you.


 
  
 I agree, never had to set my volume knob beyond 1 o'clock even at the low gain setting on SE input with MJ2 with any of my headphones.


----------



## kolkoo

tsken said:


> quarter inch


 

 HD800 are 300ohm headphones and MJ2 will output ~215 mW into 300ohm single ended and 850 mW balanced.
 At 211 mW HD800 driven by an MJ2 SE should be as loud as around 120 dB.
 However if you like it really loud and you want 125 dB let's say you will need 667.07 mW!
  
 And the above calculation may vary between tubes and LISST as they can have different internal voltage gain.
 So yeah what you say is about right high gain + maxed out you will get 120dB with stock tubes generally.
 Switch your HD800 cable to balanced. Just to compare the Lyr2 can dish out 660mW SE into 300ohm.
 =============
 I wanted to ask MJ2 owners that also use it as a preamp a question as I'm considering a purchase - how annoying is the fact that preamp outputs won't be muted when you plug-in headphones?
 I know that if I want to I can get another preamp like the Saga and turn it off when I want to listen to headphones, but what are you guys using for this situation?
  
 I'm currently using http://www.keene.co.uk/keene-volume-remote-control-worldwide-psu.html with my Lyr 2 as a preamp, but the Keene doesn't mute properly and also can't be turned off and on using the remote, and also produces crackle if my Lyr 2 is above 80% on the volume pot, so I've been wondering if any of you MJ2 users have this figured out.
  
 The Saga does seem tempting but this introduces an additional tube I'd have to replace (and I'm already way way way invested into 6DJ8/6922/7308/7DJ8 family tubes) even if I want to just use passive mode it seems that the tube will be needed and will be dying slowly.


----------



## Delayeed

Couldn't you use the preamp output switch as well... "a switch". For example if you have balanced powered monitors/speakers but nothing in the single-ended pre-outs you could switch to single ended for "off" and balanced for "on"?


----------



## kolkoo

delayeed said:


> Couldn't you use the preamp output switch as well... "a switch". For example if you have balanced powered monitors/speakers but nothing in the single-ended pre-outs you could switch to single ended for "off" and balanced for "on"?


 
 Does the MJ2 have an output switch? I think all the outputs are on all the time from what I understand.
  
 My monitors are SE and I plan to switch my headphones to balanced.


----------



## Delayeed

kolkoo said:


> Does the MJ2 have an output switch? I think all the outputs are on all the time from what I understand.
> 
> My monitors are SE and I plan to switch my headphones to balanced.


 
 Sheesh I think I confused it with the input switch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Kinda sucks then...


----------



## kolkoo

delayeed said:


> Sheesh I think I confused it with the input switch
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah it's kinda weird to me as when I plugin headphones I expect not to have the same sound play out my speakers... (just like in the Lyr2). So the only solution I can think of is another (hopefully passive) preamp  MJ2 < -- preamp -- > Speakers.
 And I want this preamp to be remote controlled. The one I am using is not ideal... and the Saga has this pesky tube which is more of a burden to me. So open for ideas about remote controlled passive preamps.


----------



## rmoody

kolkoo said:


> ============= I wanted to ask MJ2 owners that also use it as a preamp a question as I'm considering a purchase - how annoying is the fact that preamp outputs won't be muted when you plug-in headphones?
> I know that if I want to I can get another preamp like the Saga and turn it off when I want to listen to headphones, but what are you guys using for this situation?
> 
> I'm currently using http://www.keene.co.uk/keene-volume-remote-control-worldwide-psu.html with my Lyr 2 as a preamp, but the Keene doesn't mute properly and also can't be turned off and on using the remote, and also produces crackle if my Lyr 2 is above 80% on the volume pot, so I've been wondering if any of you MJ2 users have this figured out.
> ...


 
 It annoys me a lot. But more annoying is when the muting relays close, they send a surge to my monitors causing a pop. This caused the fuse to blow which cost me $70 because the fuse is not user serviceable and not wanting to jeopardize my warranty, I shipped it back to Schiit to the tune of $70.
  
 To get around both issues, I have a Emotiva Control Freak between the MJ2 and my monitors that basically acts as a mute switch with a really long throw. If the MJ2 is turned off, I turn the volume on the MJ2 and the Control freak all the way down. For headphones, just turn the Control Freak volume all the way down.


----------



## kolkoo

rmoody said:


> It annoys me a lot. But more annoying is when the muting relays close, they send a surge to my monitors causing a pop. This caused the fuse to blow which cost me $70 because the fuse is not user serviceable and not wanting to jeopardize my warranty, I shipped it back to Schiit to the tune of $70.
> 
> To get around both issues, I have a Emotiva Control Freak between the MJ2 and my monitors that basically acts as a mute switch with a really long throw. If the MJ2 is turned off, I turn the volume on the MJ2 and the Control freak all the way down. For headphones, just turn the Control Freak volume all the way down.


 

 Oh yeah I have the same problem with the Lyr 2. The keene volume remote control fixed that problem for me but it has other ****ty downsides. Are you able to max out the MJ2 on volume (at low gain) and then control the volume only using Control freak without any side effects? The Keene VRC adds cracking and popping in the sound if my Lyr 2 is over > 80%.


----------



## TsKen

kolkoo said:


> HD800 are 300ohm headphones and MJ2 will output ~215 mW into 300ohm single ended and 850 mW balanced.
> At 211 mW HD800 driven by an MJ2 SE should be as loud as around 120 dB.
> However if you like it really loud and you want 125 dB let's say you will need 667.07 mW!
> 
> ...


 
 So the Mjolnir 2 cannot drive the HD 800/HD650 to high volumes?
  
 If this is the case, then I'm very disappointed in the Mjolnir 2 then.... I paid $900 for an amp that can barely drive the HD 650 to moderate volume and in addition, it sounds very thin as well. It's a similar experience to when I tried driving the hd 800 with my Chord Mojo.. Just not enough juice.
  
 I guess i'm surprised that the crack speedball is way more powerful than the mjolnir 2. I only need to turn 50%-75% on the knob before my ears starts hurting.
  
 Any other owners want to chime in?
  
 I already had a chat with Schiit and have confirmed that I will return my Mjolnir 2. They stated they will charge me a bunch of fees if they tested it and it's not broken.
  
 to me if it can't even drive the HD 650/HD800 properly, it seems pretty defective to me... I mean, even the Magni 2 did a way better job than the Mjolnir 2.


----------



## kolkoo

tsken said:


> So the Mjolnir 2 cannot drive the HD 800/HD650 to high volumes?
> 
> If this is the case, then I'm very disappointed in the Mjolnir 2 then.... I paid $900 for an amp that can barely drive the HD 650 to moderate volume and in addition, it sounds very thin as well. It's a similar experience to when I tried driving the hd 800 with my Chord Mojo.. Just not enough juice.
> 
> ...


 
 Well 120db should be loud enough, but if you want more than that using single ended connection you need another amp. The MJ2 is a true balanced amp and that's where its true power lies. It sums the balanced outputs to deliver only a quarter of its power as single ended.
  
 Edit: The magni 2 would give you a maximum of 260mW per channel  at 300 ohms so slightly more than the MJ2 Single ended


----------



## Rowethren

120db is brushing on the pain threshold and is louder than a pneumatic drill... If you want it louder than that I think the problem is your ears not the amp!


----------



## TsKen

kolkoo said:


> Well 120db should be loud enough, but if you want more than that using single ended connection you need another amp. The MJ2 is a true balanced amp and that's where its true power lies. It sums the balanced outputs to deliver only a quarter of its power as single ended.
> 
> Edit: The magni 2 would give you a maximum of 260mW per channel  at 300 ohms so slightly more than the MJ2 Single ended


 
  


rowethren said:


> 120db is brushing on the pain threshold and is louder than a pneumatic drill... If you want it louder than that I think the problem is your ears not the amp!


 
  
  
  
 That's why I think my amp is defective... It's not even CLOSE to the pain threshold
  
 I think even my HTC 10 can drive my HD 650 to a louder volume than the Mjolnir 2.
  
 If I remember correctly, with the Magni 2, I only needed to turn the knob up to 50% before my ears started hurting.
  
 With the Mjolnir 2? Max volume on desktop, Knob turned all the way. On high-gain. Tried stock,schiit LISST tubes,sylvania tubes. Nothing works.
  
 Before buying this, I read how much power this amp outputs and how people barely had to turn the knob with the HD 800 to get a good amount of volume. Why is it different for me?


----------



## rmoody

tsken said:


> So the Mjolnir 2 cannot drive the HD 800/HD650 to high volumes?
> 
> If this is the case, then I'm very disappointed in the Mjolnir 2 then.... I paid $900 for an amp that can barely drive the HD 650 to moderate volume and in addition, it sounds very thin as well. It's a similar experience to when I tried driving the hd 800 with my Chord Mojo.. Just not enough juice.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm not really sure where you are getting your numbers in relation to the MJ2 and Lyr 2 but from Schiit's web site, the MJ2 clearly has more power than the Lyr 2. I've never felt the MJ2 is underpowered, or "thin". Sorry you are not satisfied with it, maybe try a Cavali Liquid Glass.
  
 MJ2 specs
 Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 8.0W RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 5.0W RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 850mW RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 425mW RMS per channel
  
 Lyr 2 specs
 Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 6.0W RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 4.0W RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 660mW RMS per channel
 Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 330mW RMS per channel


----------



## rmoody

kolkoo said:


> Oh yeah I have the same problem with the Lyr 2. The keene volume remote control fixed that problem for me but it has other ****ty downsides. Are you able to max out the MJ2 on volume (at low gain) and then control the volume only using Control freak without any side effects? The Keene VRC adds cracking and popping in the sound if my Lyr 2 is over > 80%.


 

 I've not tried this, also don't plan to. Sorry. You know, $70 fuse and all.


----------



## kolkoo

rmoody said:


> I'm not really sure where you are getting your numbers in relation to the MJ2 and Lyr 2 but from Schiit's web site, the MJ2 clearly has more power than the Lyr 2. I've never felt the MJ2 is underpowered, or "thin". Sorry you are not satisfied with it, maybe try a Cavali Liquid Glass.
> 
> MJ2 specs
> Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 8.0W RMS per channel
> ...


 
 The MJ2 max power is given when using balanced output. If using single-ended, however, you divide by 4.
  
 From Schiit's FAQ on the MJ2:
  


> *Do the single-ended outputs put out as much power as the balanced outputs?*
> No. They’re limited to about 2W into 32 ohms. Which is still plenty for most headphones.


----------



## rmoody

kolkoo said:


> The MJ2 max power is given when using balanced output. If using single-ended, however, you divide by 4.
> 
> From Schiit's FAQ on the MJ2:


 

 If you have no plans for using this balanced, I would say the Lyr 2 would be a better match for you. Balanced however, this thing really sings. You could ask Schiit to exchange for the Lyr 2. Or even get/make a set of balanced cables for your cans. Some Mogami mic cable, pair of Sennheiser ends and a 4 pin XLR and you are in business. I frequent the DIY cable thread, there is good advice to be had there.


----------



## TsKen

rmoody said:


> I'm not really sure where you are getting your numbers in relation to the MJ2 and Lyr 2 but from Schiit's web site, the MJ2 clearly has more power than the Lyr 2. I've never felt the MJ2 is underpowered, or "thin". Sorry you are not satisfied with it, maybe try a Cavali Liquid Glass.
> 
> MJ2 specs
> Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 8.0W RMS per channel
> ...


 
 Um..... I never said anything about the Lyr 2.
  
 I can't even listen to the Mjolnir 2 properly if I can't even get it to a sufficient volume.
  
 How are you so sure that my Mjolnir 2 is not just defective?


----------



## kolkoo

rmoody said:


> If you have no plans for using this balanced, I would say the Lyr 2 would be a better match for you. Balanced however, this thing really sings. You could ask Schiit to exchange for the Lyr 2. Or even get/make a set of balanced cables for your cans. Some Mogami mic cable, pair of Sennheiser ends and a 4 pin XLR and you are in business. I frequent the DIY cable thread, there is good advice to be had there.


 

 Yeah when I do but it - I plan to use it balanced but the previous poster *TsKen *is using it single-ended. So I was saying that the power is going to be much lower.
  
 Which brings me to another one of my question - any of you using the single-ended preamp outputs with powered monitors - do they sound good?


tsken said:


> Um..... I never said anything about the Lyr 2.
> 
> I can't even listen to the Mjolnir 2 properly if I can't even get it to a sufficient volume.
> 
> How are you so sure that my Mjolnir 2 is not just defective?


 
  
 It can definitely be defective, but you will be better off using balanced cables from the MJ2 to your headphones as then the power will be 4 times more.


----------



## rmoody

tsken said:


> Um..... I never said anything about the Lyr 2.
> 
> I can't even listen to the Mjolnir 2 properly if I can't even get it to a sufficient volume.
> 
> How are you so sure that my Mjolnir 2 is not just defective?


 

 Sorry, I thought you compared it to the Lyr 2. My bad.
  
 I'm not convinced your MJ2 is not defective. Hopefully it is.


----------



## watchnerd

kolkoo said:


> I wanted to ask MJ2 owners that also use it as a preamp a question as I'm considering a purchase - how annoying is the fact that preamp outputs won't be muted when you plug-in headphones?


 
  
 I use my MJ2 with active monitors.
  
 When I don't want to hear them, I reach behind them and turn them off.  Takes <10 seconds.


----------



## rmoody

watchnerd said:


> I use my MJ2 with active monitors.
> 
> When I don't want to hear them, I reach behind them and turn them off.  Takes <10 seconds.


 

 Mine are hard to get to and I'm lazy.


----------



## Naugrim

rmoody said:


> Mine are hard to get to and I'm lazy.


 
 Same, that is not gonna work for me. I love how my Asgard 2 just goes to them when I remove my headphones.


----------



## kolkoo

naugrim said:


> Same, that is not gonna work for me. I love how my Asgard 2 just goes to them when I remove my headphones.


 
 Yeah I want the same experience :S


----------



## peter1480

Any one using a Mjolnir 2 with Audeze LCD-XC and/or Meze classic 99? Looking for a new amp only, suggestions welcome.


----------



## franzdom

It is a fabulous pairing!
  
  


peter1480 said:


> Any one using a Mjolnir 2 with Audeze LCD-XC and/or Meze classic 99? Looking for a new amp only, suggestions welcome.


----------



## peter1480

franzdom said:


> It is a fabulous pairing!


 

 Thanks, just have to wait for the next shippment to the EU.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

And probably more amenable to LISST than pairings with, say, HD800.


----------



## peter1480

bosiemoncrieff said:


> And probably more amenable to LISST than pairings with, say, HD800.


 

 so you would suggest getting the solid state tubes as well, which I was considering. The front end will be a Fiio x7, AK300 and a Naim ND5.


----------



## GuyUnder

I have auditioned:

Asgard 2
Valhalla 2
Mjolnir 2
Joutenhiem 
Ragnarok

I actually had the Mjolnir 2 last year and had picked up some NOS tubes for it which brought it up a level. I really liked it with my HE-6, even though I felt it still wasn't at it's full potential. I ended up sending it back due to personal circumstances -- and I've missed it ever since. So after owning the Ragnarok for a while and auditioning the Joutenhiem, I sold the Ragnarok and ordered another Mjolnir 2. I feel it is Schiit's best amp. With NOS tubes it is quite euphonic and I can't wait to listen to it through my Utopia.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Did Rag at all improve HE-6?


----------



## kolkoo

Few questions:
  
 Anybody using the SE pre-amp outputs for speakers and balanced outputs for headphones can maybe answer these:
  
 How do the SE preouts sound compared to the XLR preouts when paired with powered monitors - will there be a big difference?
 Does the fact that you are using the SE preouts actually affect the sound of the XLR headphones in anyway?
  
 Appreciate the  answers


----------



## westermac

bosiemoncrieff said:


> And probably more amenable to LISST than pairings with, say, HD800.




I'm using the HD800 with LISST and love it (though with Sonarworks which is key). It's a super engaging combination and I am not a treble head by any means, though I do prefer a more neutral sound signature so if it's lushness you want look elsewhere.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I don't mind it either, though classical music is sort of what HD800 was designed to do. I soft petal the synergy because most people listen to more abrasive genres.


----------



## Joong

rmoody said:


> MJ2 will convert either way. SE to Balanced, Balanced to SE.



Those converting are done through differential opamp that is normally case in audio?


----------



## TsKen

What other headphones would be a good pair with the Mjolnir 2 + Gumby combo besides the HD 800/650?


----------



## watchnerd

tsken said:


> What other headphones would be a good pair with the Mjolnir 2 + Gumby combo besides the HD 800/650?


 
  
 The MJ2 has enough power to drive almost anything. So just use whatever cans sound good to you.


----------



## mhamel

tsken said:


> What other headphones would be a good pair with the Mjolnir 2 + Gumby combo besides the HD 800/650?


 
  
 I recently picked up a pair of Beyer DT-1990s... great pairing with the MJ2 - between the two different sounding sets of earpads they include and rolling tubes on the amp, you can really dial it in to what you prefer for sound.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

tsken said:


> What other headphones would be a good pair with the Mjolnir 2 + Gumby combo besides the HD 800/650?


 

 Yeah, the question is better posed: "What headphones wouldn't be a good pair," and then the list is electrostatic, and maybe HE-6 and K1000 for power reasons, though even then the pairing is an acceptable entry pairing. Everything Audeze, Sennheiser, AKG, Grado, Hifiman, Mr Speakers...haven't tried Abyss but I'm sure it could drive them at least as well as HE-6.


----------



## TsKen

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Yeah, the question is better posed: "What headphones wouldn't be a good pair," and then the list is electrostatic, and maybe HE-6 and K1000 for power reasons, though even then the pairing is an acceptable entry pairing. Everything Audeze, Sennheiser, AKG, Grado, Hifiman, Mr Speakers...haven't tried Abyss but I'm sure it could drive them at least as well as HE-6.


 
 Good to know that every headphone pairs well with it 
  
 every amp i've used so far has been picky about pairing with certain headphones.


----------



## Naugrim

tsken said:


> Good to know that every headphone pairs well with it
> 
> every amp i've used so far has been picky about pairing with certain headphones.


 
 Appropriate snark


----------



## ruffra

peter1480 said:


> Any one using a Mjolnir 2 with Audeze LCD-XC and/or Meze classic 99? Looking for a new amp only, suggestions welcome.


 
 Yes Have both and driven them to their best ( i think ) with the Mjolnir 2. However my Auralic Taurus 2 with balanced Grado PS1000e and flat pads are a better SQ by quite a long way if you like rock music.So if thats what you want think about it.
 Just waiting for a balanced cable for my Gen2 Beyer T1's to compare the amps.  Mj2 with Russian valves by the way. Both systems fed balanced .
 Only tried Meze 99 with SE output and new design Meze pads meze stock cable. 
 LCD-XC with balanced silver cables.  Hope this helps ?? Mj2 with russian valves a great system. 
 Auralic needs an expensive front end for its best otherwise can be a bit forward.


----------



## peter1480

ruffra said:


> Yes Have both and driven them to their best ( i think ) with the Mjolnir 2. However my Auralic Taurus 2 with balanced Grado PS1000e and flat pads are a better SQ by quite a long way if you like rock music.So if thats what you want think about it.
> Just waiting for a balanced cable for my Gen2 Beyer T1's to compare the amps.  Mj2 with Russian valves by the way. Both systems fed balanced .
> Only tried Meze 99 with SE output and new design Meze pads meze stock cable.
> LCD-XC with balanced silver cables.  Hope this helps ?? Mj2 with russian valves a great system.
> Auralic needs an expensive front end for its best otherwise can be a bit forward.


 
 thanks for the advice the Auralic Taurus 2 looks immaculately constructed, I'll give it an audition.


----------



## bluesaint

peter1480 said:


> thanks for the advice the Auralic Taurus 2 looks immaculately constructed, I'll give it an audition.


 
 I've used my Meze 99 on MJ2's balanced and it sounds much better than the SE.  So far the MJ2 with ifi NOS tubes sounds great with my collection of: Ether Flow C, HD800 SD, and Meze 99 all in balanced only.
  
 Here's my Meze99 balanced: http://www.head-fi.org/t/794593/meze-99-classics-discussion-impressions-thread/780#post_12782636


----------



## peter1480

bluesaint said:


> I've used my Meze 99 on MJ2's balanced and it sounds much better than the SE.  So far the MJ2 with ifi NOS tubes sounds great with my collection of: Ether Flow C, HD800 SD, and Meze 99 all in balanced only.
> 
> Here's my Meze99 balanced: http://www.head-fi.org/t/794593/meze-99-classics-discussion-impressions-thread/780#post_12782636


 

 Balanced makes a difference, this is a balanced cable for my x7


----------



## econaut

Hey guys,
  
 since I don't want to get into the whole tube rolling thing, I wonder if the Mjolnir 2 will sound better than Asgard/Jotunheim with LISST only?
  
 Initially I wanted to get the Bimby/Jotunheim combo, but now I consider Gumby/MJ2 with LISST. I may get the tubes as well, just for comparison.
  
 Right now, I have a K702, will get K7XX soon (also for comparison) and I am on the search for new headphones. Right now considering HD700 and Ether Flow. No classical music here and I don't like HD600/650/Elear sound.
  
 Thanks for any advices!


----------



## rmoody

econaut said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> since I don't want to get into the whole tube rolling thing, I wonder if the Mjolnir 2 will sound better than Asgard/Jotunheim with LISST only?
> 
> ...


 
 I don't particularly like the LISST in the MJ2. But I do like my Asgard 2. The MJ2 just looses some of it's magic when you use the LISST. Then again, I've really become a sucker for tube sound with my Ether C's.
  
 If I may ask, why not stick with the stock tubes on the MJ2?
  
 MJ2 is a fantastic amp, but if you are going to just go solid state, I'd stick with Asgard 2 or Jotunheim and it seems the Jotunheim is the more capable of the pair.
  
 Perhaps get the Modi Multibit and Jotunheim, very good affordable combo.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

That pairing is a good one, for sure. MJ2 is fine at solid state but I agree it can't compete in terms of SS against dedicated SS components except in terms of power (it has, for example, nearly 3x that of Liquid Carbon).


----------



## MattTCG

I'm surprised at the seeming lack of interest in this amp. I found it to be exceptional. Responded well to tube rolling, punchy and dynamic with an air of refinement thrown in. Even with a good set of NOS tubes added, you're still under $1k.


----------



## watchnerd

matttcg said:


> I'm surprised at the seeming lack of interest in this amp. I found it to be exceptional. Responded well to tube rolling, punchy and dynamic with an air of refinement thrown in. Even with a good set of NOS tubes added, you're still under $1k.


 
  
 I love mine.  
  
 My cat loves mine, too.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Under 1k, Mjolnir 2 destroys its competition. You'd have to look at used vintage speaker stuff to find something of comparable value, but that's apples and oranges. Yeah, WA5LE and Stratus and Liquid Crimson have higher degrees of transparency, but you pay through the nose for it.


----------



## Ashah

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Under 1k, Mjolnir 2 destroys its competition. You'd have to look at used vintage speaker stuff to find something of comparable value, but that's apples and oranges. Yeah, WA5LE and Stratus and Liquid Crimson have higher degrees of transparency, but you pay through the nose for it.


 
 How would you compare to  Lyr 2 for Audeze LCD 2 I have a Lyr 2 right now &  Audeze Deckard which is a pure Class A 4 watts  SS I would like a 2nd amp with tube's I like the Lyr2.   but would I benefit with a Mjr 2  for the future with tube rolling ? any advise would be appreciated yep I have already spent over $ 200 on tubes so far !


----------



## westermac

watchnerd said:


> I love mine.
> 
> My cat loves mine, too.


 

 Lol. Mind does a good job of keeping my espresso cups warm and ready


----------



## Rowethren

westermac said:


> Lol. Mind does a good job of keeping my espresso cups warm and ready




Sounds a tad risky but I'm game for trying!


----------



## westermac

rowethren said:


> Sounds a tad risky but I'm game for trying!


 

 Not with espresso in them, I wouldn't trust myself! Just to have the cups pre-warmed before I make it helps.
  
 Spilled espresso AND a fried Mjolnir 2, now that would be doubly tragic.


----------



## Rowethren

westermac said:


> Not with espresso in them, I wouldn't trust myself! Just to have the cups pre-warmed before I make it helps.
> 
> Spilled espresso AND a fried Mjolnir 2, now that would be doubly tragic.


 
  
 Ahh, that makes much more sense!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

ashah said:


> How would you compare to  Lyr 2 for Audeze LCD 2 I have a Lyr 2 right now &  Audeze Deckard which is a pure Class A 4 watts  SS I would like a 2nd amp with tube's I like the Lyr2.   but would I benefit with a Mjr 2  for the future with tube rolling ? any advise would be appreciated yep I have already spent over $ 200 on tubes so far !


 

 Although I've auditioned both the LCD 2 and the Lyr 2, I do not own them, so take what I say with that grain of salt. I have not heard the Deckard.
  
 Mjolnir's big benefit over Lyr is balanced operation. If you like balanced, or think you will like balanced, buy it with confidence. If you don't anticipate going forward with that, Lyr's single ended is _more powerful_ than Mjolnir's single-ended, though I can't say for certain whether it's better on all counts. Mjolnir 2 has a noticeably more neutral, linear sound through balanced. I noted a degree of smear in Lyr by comparison. If you like tubes, MJ2 will do _excellent_ things with them, but to realize its full potential, again, you do need balanced operation.
  
 I would recommend the iFi tubes for Audeze—they're perhaps the best overall fit for the amp. My '68 orange globes would probably just suffocate you in the warm sound (though they work great with HD800 or K1000).


----------



## Ashah

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Although I've auditioned both the LCD 2 and the Lyr 2, I do not own them, so take what I say with that grain of salt. I have not heard the Deckard.
> 
> Mjolnir's big benefit over Lyr is balanced operation. If you like balanced, or think you will like balanced, buy it with confidence. If you don't anticipate going forward with that, Lyr's single ended is _more powerful_ than Mjolnir's single-ended, though I can't say for certain whether it's better on all counts. Mjolnir 2 has a noticeably more neutral, linear sound through balanced. I noted a degree of smear in Lyr by comparison. If you like tubes, MJ2 will do _excellent_ things with them, but to realize its full potential, again, you do need balanced operation.
> 
> I would recommend the iFi tubes for Audeze—they're perhaps the best overall fit for the amp. My '68 orange globes would probably just suffocate you in the warm sound (though they work great with HD800 or K1000).


 
 Thank you ! will  send back the Lyr 2 and get the MJR  2 , being getting a very positive feed back  except like you said "Lyr 2 single ended is more powerful than the Mjr2 will look into ifi tubes
 Happy New Year !


----------



## beaux

I once owned schiit m2. This is a nice pair to planar headphones


----------



## Baldr

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Although I've auditioned both the LCD 2 and the Lyr 2, I do not own them, so take what I say with that grain of salt. I have not heard the Deckard.
> 
> Mjolnir's big benefit over Lyr is balanced operation. If you like balanced, or think you will like balanced, buy it with confidence. If you don't anticipate going forward with that, Lyr's single ended is _more powerful_ than Mjolnir's single-ended, though I can't say for certain whether it's better on all counts. Mjolnir 2 has a noticeably more neutral, linear sound through balanced. I noted a degree of smear in Lyr by comparison. If you like tubes, MJ2 will do _excellent_ things with them, but to realize its full potential, again, you do need balanced operation.
> 
> I would recommend the iFi tubes for Audeze—they're perhaps the best overall fit for the amp. My '68 orange globes would probably just suffocate you in the warm sound (though they work great with HD800 or K1000).


 

 The 5670/2C51/396A family is a wonderful, inexpensive, alternative, as long as you USE 6DJ8 to 5670 TRANSLATOR SOCKETS.  There is a vendor selling very good sounding 5670s for $3.98 each!!


----------



## Ashah

baldr said:


> The 5670/2C51/396A family is a wonderful, inexpensive, alternative, as long as you USE 6DJ8 to 5670 TRANSLATOR SOCKETS.  There is a vendor selling very good sounding 5670s for $3.98 each!!


 
 Hi Baldr, have a question for you enjoyed seeing your Video's on Dar_ko gives me prospective on the company ! Are you by any chance upgrading the Mjr 2 in the next few months I Iam thinking this due to the comment I read on Dar_Ko review,  stating that due to the introduction of Jot you may be competing with your own product Mjr if I understand it correctly ?
 thanks !


----------



## Ashah

ashah said:


> Hi Baldr, have a question for you enjoyed seeing your Video's on Dar_ko gives me prospective on the company ! Are you by any chance upgrading the Mjr 2 in the next few months I Iam thinking this due to the comment I read on Dar_Ko review,  stating that due to the introduction of Jot you may be competing with your own product Mjr if I understand it correctly ?
> thanks !


 
  


baldr said:


> The 5670/2C51/396A family is a wonderful, inexpensive, alternative, as long as you USE 6DJ8 to 5670 TRANSLATOR SOCKETS.  There is a vendor selling very good sounding 5670s for $3.98 each!!


 
 which vendor can you kindly post a link ?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

ashah said:


> Hi Baldr, have a question for you enjoyed seeing your Video's on Dar_ko gives me prospective on the company ! Are you by any chance upgrading the Mjr 2 in the next few months I Iam thinking this due to the comment I read on Dar_Ko review,  stating that due to the introduction of Jot you may be competing with your own product Mjr if I understand it correctly ?
> thanks !




lol Mike is definitely not going to answer that question. 

But thanks for the tube rec Mike!


----------



## GuyUnder

Guys...uh...how do you open the case on this thing??


----------



## Ashah

bosiemoncrieff said:


> lol Mike is definitely not going to answer that question.
> 
> But thanks for the tube rec Mike!


 
 Sure  OF COURSE ! I knew he wouldn't  !  So that tells me upgrade is in  the cards , Did find a link on E bay and ordered the tubes for future use Cheers !


----------



## Naugrim

Just ordered a Gumby and Mjolnir 2 along with my Ether Flows and a balanced 10' 4Pin XLR cable. Dan, from MrSpeakers, recommended some  6922 Tungsol tubes to go with the Ether Flows, so I suppose I'll get them if not too expensive.  That's all...I'm looking forward to experiencing the upgrade from Asgard 2 and a Bifrost.


----------



## Baldr

ashah said:


> which vendor can you kindly post a link ?


 
  
 Translators:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2piece-Gold-plated-5670-6N3-2C51-TOP-TO-ECC88-6922-6N2-tube-converter-adapter-/191928438290?hash=item2cafd38e12:g:3pgAAOSwKfVXJciG
  
 Tubes (even cheaper)
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-NOS-new-GE-JAN-5670-W-2C51-tubes-Western-Electric-396A-Vari-mu-Varimu-6386-/112236663170?hash=item1a21d39182:g:O1sAAOSw6DtYUPXc
  
 YMMV, YMMV, YMMV  These are a very cheap roll.
  
 Western Electric 396A is a phuc ton of $$$ by comparison, but Ireally like 'em.


----------



## Rowethren

naugrim said:


> Just ordered a Gumby and Mjolnir 2 along with my Ether Flows and a balanced 10' 4Pin XLR cable. Dan, from MrSpeakers, recommended some  [COLOR=222222]6922 Tungsol tubes to go with the Ether Flows, so I suppose I'll get them if not too expensive.  That's all...I'm looking forward to experiencing the upgrade from Asgard 2 and a Bifrost.[/COLOR]




Exactly what I bought from him in October other than I got the shorter XLR cable. Really is a great combination. Regarding tubes I would give the iFi NOS 6922 a try, I have tried a few and they are by far my favourite and at around £100 for a warranty supported matched pair you can't go far wrong. They even come with gloves so you don't mark the tubes during fitting


----------



## Ashah

baldr said:


> Translators:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2piece-Gold-plated-5670-6N3-2C51-TOP-TO-ECC88-6922-6N2-tube-converter-adapter-/191928438290?hash=item2cafd38e12:g:3pgAAOSwKfVXJciG
> 
> Tubes (even cheaper)
> ...


 
 Mike thank you already ordered the tubes will order the convertors now !  Happy New Year !


----------



## Baldr

ashah said:


> Hi Baldr, have a question for you enjoyed seeing your Video's on Dar_ko gives me prospective on the company ! Are you by any chance upgrading the Mjr 2 in the next few months I Iam thinking this due to the comment I read on Dar_Ko review,  stating that due to the introduction of Jot you may be competing with your own product Mjr if I understand it correctly ?
> thanks !


 
  
 At Schiit, Jason does almost all of the amp design (except Mani), and I do all of the digital design.  All I will say is the following - I love my Mule2 - it works very well with all of our digital gear.  Also, there are no current projects under development to improve, upgrade, or replace the Mule2.  As for the future - Who knows? - I am sure that Jason will get to it when it is time.


----------



## FLTWS

I personally would like to see a Schiit headphone amp (balanced and SE in/out) that uses the 6SN7 (to see what all the fuss is about) and that makes use of the most current Schiit thinking on power supplies, amplification circuitry and topology optimization.
  
 It doesn't have to come in black.
  
 But that's just me.


----------



## westermac

Does anyone else's Mjolnir 2 make occasional creaking/popping (I mean the unit itself, not in the audio chain). If I push town on the top of the unit it will make a similar clicking sound, so I'm pretty sure it's just a seam that moves slightly with the expansion/contraction of warmup and cooldown. Drove me crazy trying to pinpoint it for awhile, now it doesn't bother me. Just curious.


----------



## watchnerd

westermac said:


> Does anyone else's Mjolnir 2 make occasional creaking/popping (I mean the unit itself, not in the audio chain). If I push town on the top of the unit it will make a similar clicking sound, so I'm pretty sure it's just a seam that moves slightly with the expansion/contraction of warmup and cooldown. Drove me crazy trying to pinpoint it for awhile, now it doesn't bother me. Just curious.


 
  
 Not mine.


----------



## FLTWS

Not Mine.


----------



## westermac

Guess it's an anomaly then. Perfect! Going to list it on eBay for $10,000. SCHIIT MJOLNIR 2 ULTRA-RARE MANUFACTURING DEFECT!!!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

fltws said:


> I personally would like to see a Schiit headphone amp (balanced and SE in/out) that uses the 6SN7 (to see what all the fuss is about) and that makes use of the most current Schiit thinking on power supplies, amplification circuitry and topology optimization.
> 
> It doesn't have to come in black.
> 
> But that's just me.


 

 The consensus seems to be that Jotunheim's implementation of solid state is better than MJ2's with LISST. (I haven't heard it.) How much potential improvement in a "MJ3" would come from a different topology, and how much would be a better implementation of LISST?


----------



## rnros

fltws said:


> I personally would like to see a Schiit headphone amp (balanced and SE in/out) that uses the 6SN7 (to see what all the fuss is about) and that makes use of the most current Schiit thinking on power supplies, amplification circuitry and topology optimization.
> 
> It doesn't have to come in black.
> 
> But that's just me.


 

 +1  Or, a version of Freya with headphone out.


----------



## FLTWS

rnros said:


> +1  Or, a version of Freya with headphone out.


 

 Yah!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Isn't Jason's main critique of the Freia tube set that it's too loud for headphones?


----------



## watchnerd

rnros said:


> +1  Or, a version of Freya with headphone out.


 
  
 No, this would be anathema to Schiit's whole product line.


----------



## rnros

watchnerd said:


> No, this would be anathema to Schiit's whole product line.


 

 Anathema? Is that in the original Greek sense of something dedicated to the gods, or in the later Abrahamic sense of something despised by their god?
  
 Assuming the second sense.    Not sure why, I would be interested to hear the Freya 6SN7 topology with headphones.


----------



## watchnerd

rnros said:


> Anathema? Is that in the original Greek sense of something dedicated to the gods, or in the later Abrahamic sense of something despised by their god?
> 
> Assuming the second sense.    Not sure why, I would be interested to hear the Freya 6SN7 topology with headphones.


 
  
 That's for Mjolnir 3.


----------



## Vigrith

Balanced Valhalla 3 with 4 pin XLR, that's what I want. I want it so bad.


----------



## Naugrim

Is it worth buying a 4pin XLR cable for a TH-900 mk2 to be used on the Mjolnir 2? Will I get three hundred dollars worth of improved sound? The impedance is so low there will be plenty of power with a 1/4" connector, don't you think?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

vigrith said:


> Balanced Valhalla 3 with 4 pin XLR, that's what I want. I want it so bad.


 

 Jason is on the record as being skeptical of the sonic improvements of balanced for OTL amps. That said, I'd be interested in a Valhalla 3 with a quieter power supply.


----------



## Ashah

baldr said:


> At Schiit, Jason does almost all of the amp design (except Mani), and I do all of the digital design.  All I will say is the following - I love my Mule2 - it works very well with all of our digital gear.  Also, there are no current projects under development to improve, upgrade, or replace the Mule2.  As for the future - Who knows? - I am sure that Jason will get to it when it is time.


 
  Mike,
 Thanks good to know Well I intend to place my order for one(mule 2)  &  probably 2 Vidars when they come out to run my Magnipan 1. 7i in mono mode 400 watts AB high current (assuming they are high current amps) at 4 ohm should make me happy for the front end I am just going to tie them into my Parasound Halo integrated  amp  at least for now.  Vidars are cheap in comparison  to Parasound A 21 that  I have been considering .


----------



## MattTCG

I'd like a Mule 2 with TWO sets of tubes, allowing me to switch between two sets of NOS tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Of course I know this won't happen.


----------



## Rowethren

What is a Mule 2? I tried Googleing it and all that came up was a backpack.


----------



## MattTCG

I saw Mike call this amp a Mule, so... There you go.


----------



## Naugrim

matttcg said:


> I saw Mike call this amp a Mule, so... There you go.


Easier to spell, harder to google


----------



## Rowethren

Haha fair enough, that does explain why google didn't give me any results. Had my Mule 2 for about 3 months and still loving it!


----------



## franzdom

I was also very confused when Mike mentioned enjoying his Mule 2, but I got over it a minute later.


----------



## Baldr

franzdom said:


> I was also very confused when Mike mentioned enjoying his Mule 2, but I got over it a minute later.


 

 It is only because I am either lazy or crave easy English associations.


----------



## tvnosaint

Phonetics man.


----------



## econaut

rmoody said:


> I don't particularly like the LISST in the MJ2. But I do like my Asgard 2. The MJ2 just looses some of it's magic when you use the LISST. Then again, I've really become a sucker for tube sound with my Ether C's.
> 
> If I may ask, why not stick with the stock tubes on the MJ2?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I will now get a Gumby + MJ2 with stock tubes, since LISST is not available right now. This is my introduction to tube sound, I am curious 
  
 I will get the LISSTs when they become available again as well, though, to see/listen for myself.
  
 Now I am only searching for the right headphones to go along, Ether Flow is my favorite so far. "Unfortunately", we have two shops with Audeze, Hifiman, Oppo, Sennheiser and Stax etc., but no Mr.Speakers to have a listen.


----------



## mwhals

econaut said:


> I will now get a Gumby + MJ2 with stock tubes, since LISST is not available right now. This is my introduction to tube sound, I am curious
> 
> I will get the LISSTs when they become available again as well, though, to see/listen for myself.
> 
> Now I am only searching for the right headphones to go along, Ether Flow is my favorite so far. "Unfortunately", we have two shops with Audeze, Hifiman, Oppo, Sennheiser and Stax etc., but no Mr.Speakers to have a listen.




MrSpeakers has the Mjolnir 2 with LISST and tubes for the same price Schiit direct would cost.


----------



## watchnerd

I have both LISST and tubes.
  
 I'm glad I got the LISST.


----------



## econaut

mwhals said:


> MrSpeakers has the Mjolnir 2 with LISST and tubes for the same price Schiit direct would cost.


 
  
 Thanks for the hint, but I live in Germany, so customs charges might be way to high. I ordered mine already from the european distributor and hope I will get it this week.
  
 I also asked Schiit, when LISST will be available again, but haven't got an answer yet.


----------



## Rowethren

Just noticed that the Mjolnir 2 has gone up by like £100 from the UK store so it is now more £ than $... (£870 vs $849). If that is not an error I am glad I got mine a few months ago! Doesn't seem as good value as it used to and we are getting screwed in the UK really hard!
  
 *Edit- It seems everything has gone up by a significant amount and almost every product is now more £ than $...


----------



## mwhals

rowethren said:


> Just noticed that the Mjolnir 2 has gone up by like £100 from the UK store so it is now more £ than $... (£870 vs $849). If that is not an error I am glad I got mine a few months ago! Doesn't seem as good value as it used to and we are getting screwed in the UK really hard!
> 
> *Edit- It seems everything has gone up by a significant amount and almost every product is now more £ than $...




It is because of a strong dollar. It makes other currencies need more to equal the dollar.


----------



## Rowethren

mwhals said:


> It is because of a strong dollar. It makes other currencies need more to equal the dollar.


 
  
 I know the reason but it still seems like it has gone too far. I mean the Ragnarok is 100 more £ than $ which is mental. It has gone up in price by like £400 as far as I can remember.


----------



## ToTo Man

rowethren said:


> I know the reason but it still seems like it has gone too far. I mean the Ragnarok is 100 more £ than $ which is mental. It has gone up in price by like £400 as far as I can remember.


 

 And the price increases aren't limited to Schiit.  For example, the Sennheiser HD800S is soon going to be increasing by £200 from £1199 to £1399 which is almost a 17% price hike!


----------



## Rowethren

toto man said:


> And the price increases aren't limited to Schiit.  For example, the Sennheiser HD800S is soon going to be increasing by £200 from £1199 to £1399 which is almost a 17% price hike!


 
  
 Damn! Well I am just glad I bought all my current audio gear last year so I won't need anything else for a few years. I guess it is only going to get worse as well! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Stupid brexit! So much for it not having an effect or normal people haha... 
  
 Don't get me wrong I love my Schiit really good stuff and sounds amazing and to be honest it is still amazing value for money it just hurts getting stung by price changes due to something political I don't even want.


----------



## watchnerd

rowethren said:


> I know the reason but it still seems like it has gone too far. I mean the Ragnarok is 100 more £ than $ which is mental. It has gone up in price by like £400 as far as I can remember.


 
  
 Do you think this is something the vendors should address?  If so, how?


----------



## Rowethren

watchnerd said:


> Do you think this is something the vendors should address?  If so, how?


 
  
 Not really my position to say how a vendor should address this issue. I do find it slightly amusing how I seem to be being attacked for saying there has been a large price hike and I don't like it. I challenge any of you to be happy about a price hike lol...


----------



## watchnerd

rowethren said:


> Not really my position to say how a vendor should address this issue. I do find it slightly amusing how I seem to be being attacked for saying there has been a large price hike and I don't like it. I challenge any of you to be happy about a price hike lol...


 
  
 Nobody is happy about price hikes, of course.
  
 And it has happened to all of us at one point.
  
 I didn't perceive the questions as attacks, but more a matter of pointing the finger at the larger macro-economic / political landscape.


----------



## Rowethren

I do already know the reasons as I said a couple of posts back and I will probably buy more Schiit in the future anyway as I love their combination of VfM, aesthetics and sound quality. Just frustrated really with political issues that are probably best not mentioned as discussions regarding them never seem to end amicably


----------



## Mr Rick

rowethren said:


> I do already know the reasons as I said a couple of posts back and I will probably buy more Schiit in the future anyway as I love their combination of VfM, aesthetics and sound quality. Just frustrated really with political issues that are probably best not mentioned as discussions regarding them never seem to end amicably


 
  
 Schiit has no control over the current geopolitical situation. Your rage is misplaced.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Yeah, the UK should get used to having the £ in the schiiter. Brexit done messed their currency. If you're looking for a nail in their coffin as a great power, this might be it.


----------



## Naugrim

mr rick said:


> Schiit has no control over the current geopolitical situation. Your rage is misplaced.


 
 Which is what he just said.


----------



## qrtas

I don't know if this has been discussed already, but has anyone compared the mjolnir 2 and the much more expensive woo wa22? i intend to use any of these amps with an LCD 3 balanced mode . Money is not an issue. This will be an investment for many years to come. I just want the best pairing.


----------



## Ashah

qrtas said:


> I don't know if this has been discussed already, but has anyone compared the mjolnir 2 and the much more expensive woo wa22? i intend to use any of these amps with an LCD 3 balanced mode . Money is not an issue. This will be an investment for many years to come. I just want the best pairinng


 
 I use a Dekard Class A  SS Amp   for my LCD 2 , tried Lyr2 for a tube amp sent it back,(good amp though)  would like to try the mjolnir 2 for a a tube amp, with a balanced output,   so I would also like to see this discussed  plus what is the big difference having a circlotron -style topology ? why are they more costly ?


----------



## Naugrim

something is missing here....


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

qrtas said:


> I don't know if this has been discussed already, but has anyone compared the mjolnir 2 and the much more expensive woo wa22? i intend to use any of these amps with an LCD 3 balanced mode . Money is not an issue. This will be an investment for many years to come. I just want the best pairing.




The wa22se is coming out soon and is a serious improvement over either of them. The prototype from July was the best amp I have ever heard. (BHSE aside.)


----------



## qrtas

bosiemoncrieff said:


> The wa22se is coming out soon and is a serious improvement over either of them. The prototype from July was the best amp I have ever heard. (BHSE aside.)





Thanks for the info, Do you know what the price will be for the wa22se? 

I assume this is it it in the picture


----------



## Carcajou

Has anyone tried the Mjolnir 2 with JJ88CC/6922 Gold tubes? Is the step-up from the stock tubes worth it?


----------



## MattTCG

Stock Tubes are just passable. Just about anything NOS will be an upgrade.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Hasn't been announced but 5k, +\- 1k


----------



## Carcajou

matttcg said:


> Stock Tubes are just passable. Just about anything NOS will be an upgrade.


 
 Call me crazy, but I actually like the stock tubes! But yeah, you're right that they're technically not that hard to beat. Thanks!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

carcajou said:


> Call me crazy, but I actually like the stock tubes! But yeah, you're right that they're technically not that hard to beat. Thanks!


 

 I don't hate them, but hasn't Mike recommended better ones for like $5? Or is that Freya.
  
 Oh, and new fact I just learned.
  
 Me: What would happen if I put one LISST and one tube into my Mjolnir 2? Would it go boom? Would it void the warranty?
 Schiit: It would simply have LISST in one channel and a tube in the other, may sound a bit odd.


----------



## Carcajou

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I don't hate them, but hasn't Mike recommended better ones for like $5? Or is that Freya.
> 
> Oh, and new fact I just learned.
> 
> ...


 
 Haven't heard but I wouldn't be surprised. I'm not saying they're amazing, it's just that nothing bothers me about them. But yeah, I'll probably go ahead and order a pair of JJ.
  
 Makes sense as the Mjolnir 2 is fully balanced, so it's like having two mono amplifiers in the same box. It guess it could cause some weird crosstalk when using the SE output... Food for thoughts.


----------



## Baldr

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I don't hate them, but hasn't Mike recommended better ones for like $5? Or is that Freya.


 
 5670/396A with adapter like for Vali2.


----------



## Ashah

baldr said:


> 5670/396A with adapter like for Vali2.


 
 tried them( 5670/396A  with the Lyr 2-  GR8 sound with my LCD2F thanks Mike ! sent back the Lyr 2 today will be purchasing the Mjolnir 2


----------



## Andrew Rieger

Sorry if this is a stupid question but does the Mjolnir 2 need a balanced signal from a DAC via XLR to output a balanced signal to the headphones?


----------



## JohnnyCanuck

andrew rieger said:


> Sorry if this is a stupid question but does the Mjolnir 2 need a balanced signal from a DAC via XLR to output a balanced signal to the headphones?


 
  
 From the manual:
  
  
 4 Input Select.
 Up selects the balanced XLR input, down selects the single-ended RCAs.
 Yes, Mjolnir 2 is also a 2-input preamp and balanced-SE and *SE-balanced converter*.
 Fun times!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

So I just A/B'd Vali 1 and Mjolnir 2 listening to Teodor Currentzis's _Le nozze di Figaro _on my HD800. I volume matched unscientifically (one channel from each amp until they sounded equal), and used balanced with MJ2 to give it every advantage I could. I have to say, Vali gets really, really, REALLY close to MJ2 with my '68 orange globes. Unless you need the power (and of course I very much do), Vali seems as though it gets you 97% of the way there. Maybe 98%. I can't believe how awesome this little guy is.


----------



## watchnerd

bosiemoncrieff said:


> So I just A/B'd Vali 1 and Mjolnir 2 listening to Teodor Currentzis's _Le nozze di Figaro _on my HD800. I volume matched unscientifically (one channel from each amp until they sounded equal), and used balanced with MJ2 to give it every advantage I could. I have to say, Vali gets really, really, REALLY close to MJ2 with my '68 orange globes. Unless you need the power (and of course I very much do), Vali seems as though it gets you 97% of the way there. Maybe 98%. I can't believe how awesome this little guy is.


 
  
 So the no longer available Vali 1 is an MJ2 beater?
  
 Great plan to drive up the value of the few remaining Vali 1's in the world!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

For the money, I recommend it unhesitatingly. Ditto Vali 2 of course, because tube rolling etc., but Vali 1 was a stunning achievement. It was $119!


----------



## watchnerd

bosiemoncrieff said:


> For the money, I recommend it unhesitatingly. Ditto Vali 2 of course, because tube rolling etc., but Vali 1 was a stunning achievement. It was $119!


 
  
 Well if it's 97% of a Mjolnir 2 then the Vali 1 should be worth $823.53.
  
 BTW, I literally LOL'ed at the 2-digits of precision in your worth estimate....


----------



## movax

Anyone get a shipping notification yet? Ordered mine on 12/20, getting antsy waiting for it! Can't wait to go balanced -- until then, I just have to read everyone's posts in this thread!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

watchnerd said:


> Well if it's 97% of a Mjolnir 2 then the Vali 1 should be worth $823.53.
> 
> BTW, I literally LOL'ed at the 2-digits of precision in your worth estimate....


 

 or a Mjolnir 2 should be worth like $123...


----------



## gr8soundz

bosiemoncrieff said:


> So I just A/B'd Vali 1 and Mjolnir 2 listening to Teodor Currentzis's _Le nozze di Figaro _on my HD800. I volume matched unscientifically (one channel from each amp until they sounded equal), and used balanced with MJ2 to give it every advantage I could. I have to say, Vali gets really, really, REALLY close to MJ2 with my '68 orange globes. Unless you need the power (and of course I very much do), Vali seems as though it gets you 97% of the way there. Maybe 98%. I can't believe how awesome this little guy is.


 
  
 I was listening to my Vali 1 last night while browsing the MJ2 specs on their site. Always wonder how much improvement a better amp might bring but I agree the Vali is still very impressive. Glad I picked one up before Schiit sold out of their closeouts.
  
 With, as you say, a less than 5% improvement (for over $700 more) are there any balanced hybrids you'd recommend that are leaps beyond the Vali?


----------



## rnros

gr8soundz said:


> I was listening to my Vali 1 last night while browsing the MJ2 specs on their site. Always wonder how much improvement a better amp might bring but I agree the Vali is still very impressive. Glad I picked one up before Schiit sold out of their closeouts.
> 
> With, as you say, a less than 5% improvement (for over $700 more) are there any balanced hybrids you'd recommend that are leaps beyond the Vali?


 

 No experience with Vali1, but I do have Vali2, Lyr1 & 2, and MJ2.
 I do like the Vali2, very much, for what it is. However, both the Lyr1 and 2 are _significantly_ better than the Vali2.
 And, the MJ2 is a _significant_ step-up from the Lyrs and the Valhalla. IMO, a great value at it's price level.
 Only my experience, of course. This is with multiple headphones and many, many tube varieties.
 But yes, you do need decent tubes, and I am using the GungnirMB.
  
 What about Asgard?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

gr8soundz said:


> I was listening to my Vali 1 last night while browsing the MJ2 specs on their site. Always wonder how much improvement a better amp might bring but I agree the Vali is still very impressive. Glad I picked one up before Schiit sold out of their closeouts.
> 
> With, as you say, a less than 5% improvement (for over $700 more) are there any balanced hybrids you'd recommend that are leaps beyond the Vali?


 

 WA5. Also the WA22-SE (which I heard in prototype). In both cases, you get dramatically more power and dramatically more transparent sound. Mjolnir gives you way more power and a smidgen more refinement (to my ears, via HD800).


----------



## movax

movax said:


> Anyone get a shipping notification yet? Ordered mine on 12/20, getting antsy waiting for it! Can't wait to go balanced -- until then, I just have to read everyone's posts in this thread!


 
  
 I hear shipments are resuming 2/10 -- what a wait! Hope it's worth it...


----------



## gr8soundz

rnros said:


> No experience with Vali1, but I do have Vali2, Lyr1 & 2, and MJ2.
> I do like the Vali2, very much, for what it is. However, both the Lyr1 and 2 are _significantly_ better than the Vali2.
> And, the MJ2 is a _significant_ step-up from the Lyrs and the Valhalla. IMO, a great value at it's price level.
> Only my experience, of course. This is with multiple headphones and many, many tube varieties.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the insight.
  
 Haven't tried any other Schiit amps yet have been pretty set on another hybrid so not considering the Asgard. The MJ2 is one of the few amps to tick most of the boxes I'm looking for but the higher price and lack of gushing reviews have made me more cautious.
  
 I know the MJ2 is a good amp (at minimum) but not sure if it'd be close enough to the end-game I'm searching for. May have to just take that leap, try it, and make my decision within the 15 day return window.


----------



## rnros

bosiemoncrieff said:


> WA5. Also the WA22-SE (which I heard in prototype). In both cases, you get dramatically more power and dramatically more transparent sound. Mjolnir gives you way more power and a smidgen more refinement (to my ears, via HD800).


 

 Haven't heard the WA5 yet. I'm sure it's impressive. $6000.
  
 The WA22-SE looks exciting. A new 2-chassis setup. Nice. $3500 maybe?


----------



## gr8soundz

bosiemoncrieff said:


> WA5. Also the WA22-SE (which I heard in prototype). In both cases, you get dramatically more power and dramatically more transparent sound. Mjolnir gives you way more power and a smidgen more refinement (to my ears, via HD800).


 
  
 I researched the Woo amps last year after the WA8 release. The WA22's price is in-line with some other brands I looked but I prefer the MJ2's design. Both are bigger than I'm used too (spoiled by the Vali's mini size) but I prefer the more recessed tubes on the MJ2.
  
 Even thought about getting a Jotenheim to pair with a tube buffer I already have but difficult to decide without hearing either amp.


----------



## rnros

gr8soundz said:


> Thanks for the insight.
> 
> Haven't tried any other Schiit amps yet have been pretty set on another hybrid so not considering the Asgard. The MJ2 is one of the few amps to tick most of the boxes I'm looking for but the higher price and lack of gushing reviews have made me more cautious.
> 
> I know the MJ2 is a good amp (at minimum) but not sure if it'd be close enough to the end-game I'm searching for. May have to just take that leap, try it, and make my decision within the 15 day return window.


 

 The MJ2 is a very clean, quiet, dynamic amp capable of extremely fine detail and superb soundstage, _but_, it is dependent on the DAC you use to feed it and the tube you use to power it.
 IMO, the Gumby is an extremely fine DAC and a good value; the tubes don't have to be expensive.
 Also depends on what you're looking to hear... I listen to a variety of music but my equipment and tube assessment is always based on live acoustic performance, small ensemble or full orchestra, I want to hear as much of the live performance as I can, that includes not only full and natural instrument and voice but spatial acoustics as well. Starts with the recording, of course, but the MJ2/Gumby combination is impressive, especially at the price.


----------



## gr8soundz

rnros said:


> The MJ2 is a very clean, quiet, dynamic amp capable of extremely fine detail and superb soundstage, _but_, it is dependent on the DAC you use to feed it and the tube you use to power it.
> IMO, the Gumby is an extremely fine DAC and a good value; the tubes don't have to be expensive.
> Also depends on what you're looking to hear... I listen to a variety of music but my equipment and tube assessment is always based on live acoustic performance, small ensemble or full orchestra, I want to hear as much of the live performance as I can, that includes not only full and natural instrument and voice but spatial acoustics as well. Starts with the recording, of course, but the MJ2/Gumby combination is impressive, especially at the price.


 
  
 Plan to get another dac very soon as well (probably before the amp due to lower cost). Looking at a couple of R2R dacs including the Mimby. However, I do wish the Mimby had selectable filters (for more customization) and did DSD (only for the crazy upsampling I sometimes do on poorer recordings).
  
 I also listen to variety of stuff and prefer an amp with great detail, dynamics, separation, and a massive (but not artificial) soundstage. A low noise floor would be great too but no way a hybrid can match what solid-state amps do there. The LISST option is a nice feature of the MJ2. Only other amp capable of going from solid-state to hybrid is the iCan Pro but its $900 more and seems (in the threads at least) there are some defect/reliability problems with the iFi. Schiit's 5 year warranty gives the MJ2 another advantage.
  
 Only concern right now, with the MJ2 closing on 2 years, is how soon the MJ3 might come along.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

What could mj3 add? Pivot point?


----------



## gr8soundz

I'm guessing they could add that new topology from the Jot to the solid-state side of MJ3 as well as general improvements to sound quality (especially on the MJ2's SE output that I've seen mixed reviews on).


----------



## Carcajou

gr8soundz said:


> I'm guessing they could add that new topology from the Jot to the solid-state side of MJ3 as well as general improvements to sound quality (especially on the MJ2's SE output that I've seen mixed reviews on).


 
 Agreed.
  
 In addition to what you said, a feature similar to that of the Freya where you could easily switch between solid state and tubes could be nice (don't know how feasible that would be though). That would be especially interesting given that it's not particularly easy to remove the tubes from the MJ2.
  
 Also, putting the power switch on the front of the unit?


----------



## gr8soundz

Based on their track record, I bet there will be some significant changes.
  
 I only mentioned the MJ3 since the MJ2 came out in 2015 and Schiit seems to update their products every 2-3 years. I got the Vali long after the Vali 2 was released (preferred the original design) so upgrade-itis isn't a problem. Would be nice to see what they do next plus the MJ2 may get closeout pricing.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Agreed. The only thing more interesting than LISST is not needing to extract your tubes every time you want to hear solid state sound. I guess you could argue that they can be moved to Vali 2, Lyr 2 etc. but that seems to be a weak argument.
  
 It would then make Lyr 3 the fabled "Jotuntubes," albeit exclusively single-ended, unless Jason is even more of a ninja than I thought.


----------



## watchnerd

carcajou said:


> Also, putting the power switch on the front of the unit?


 
  
 Hell no.
  
 If Schiit ever puts a switch on the front, I'll stop buying.
  
 It's a hallmark of their design.
  
 Plus, it would ruin the looks.


----------



## Carcajou

watchnerd said:


> Hell no.
> 
> If Schiit ever puts a switch on the front, I'll stop buying.
> 
> ...


 
 How would a third little switch like the input and gains switches ruin the look?


----------



## watchnerd

carcajou said:


> How would a third little switch like the input and gains switches ruin the look?


 
  
 Because it would be unnecessary.
  
 Cleaner is better.


----------



## Carcajou

watchnerd said:


> Because it would be unnecessary.
> 
> Cleaner is better.


 
 That's your opinion. Mine is that having the power switch in the back, especially for a tube amp which MUST be turned off, makes it impossible to install it in a way where the back isn't easily accessible (e.g. under a desk shelf) at all time, and a lot of reviews I've read and watched seem to agree with me. So let's just agree to disagree.


----------



## franzdom

carcajou said:


> That's your opinion. Mine is that having the power switch in the back, especially for a tube amp which MUST be turned off, makes it impossible to install it in a way where the back isn't easily accessible (e.g. under a desk shelf) at all time, and a lot of reviews I've read and watched seem to agree with me. So let's just agree to disagree.


 
  
 Someday you may agree, I love remote switches and this has driven my adoption pace towards smart home elements.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Jason will never put a power switch on the front. The merits of that have been discussed ad infinitum elsewhere.


----------



## watchnerd

carcajou said:


> That's your opinion. Mine is that having the power switch in the back, especially for a tube amp which MUST be turned off


 
  
 It must be turned off?
  
 Interesting. I never turn mine off.


----------



## winders

watchnerd said:


> It must be turned off?
> 
> Interesting. I never turn mine off.


 

 Assuming you are using vacuum tubes and not the LISST "tubes", not turning off the amp will greatly shorten the life of said tubes. If you are using cheap and readily available tubes, maybe you don't care. Heck, maybe you are rich and you don't care. But most people probably should care.


----------



## watchnerd

winders said:


> Assuming you are using vacuum tubes and not the LISST "tubes", not turning off the amp will greatly shorten the life of said tubes. If you are using cheap and readily available tubes, maybe you don't care. Heck, maybe you are rich and you don't care. But most people probably should care.


 
  
 Yep, tubes are in.
  
 I have lots of tubes lying around.  When they wear out, take them out, pull out another pair from the drawer.


----------



## watchnerd

carcajou said:


> That's your opinion.


 
  
 Ahhhh.
  
 But my opinion on power switches is the same as Schiit's.
  
 That makes it better.


----------



## ToTo Man

watchnerd said:


> Yep, tubes are in.
> 
> I have lots of tubes lying around.  When they wear out, take them out, pull out another pair from the drawer.


 

 I assume you switch the amp off when swapping tubes, or do you have asbestos fingers?!


----------



## Carcajou

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Jason will never put a power switch on the front. The merits of that have been discussed ad infinitum elsewhere.


 
 If you have a link or remember where this was discussed, I'd be interested to read about it. Thanks


----------



## watchnerd

toto man said:


> I assume you switch the amp off when swapping tubes, or do you have asbestos fingers?!


 
  
 Tube extractor tool lets me pull them without waiting for them to cool down.
  
 But I do turn it off, wouldn't want to zap something.


----------



## econaut

Is it true that the Jotunheim has a better resolution than the Mjolnir 2? It was recommended to me as a better pairing for my HD 650s.
  
 I don't intend to get into the tube rolling thing, if I don't have to, but might get a LCD3 or something similar in the future.
  
 Got a Gumby already.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Jotunheim is probably your best bet.


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Jotunheim is probably your best bet.


 
  
 I second that recommendation.


----------



## econaut

Thanks a lot for your recommendations. Since my new MJ2 arrived with a dead left channel I asked the european distributor for a refund and I ordered a Jot at Schiit USA. Costs me 150-200 Euros more than buying here (shipping, VAT and customs), but there are no Jots available in Europe for some time (lots of backorders).


----------



## tedevang

I have a pair of Phillips Miniwatt SQs in my Mjolnir 2. One is apparently going bad and has a minor amount of audible hiss. Is it recommended that I replace both tubes or is it OK to just replace one?


----------



## Carcajou

tedevang said:


> I have a pair of Phillips Miniwatt SQs in my Mjolnir 2. One is apparently going bad and has a minor amount of audible hiss. Is it recommended that I replace both tubes or is it OK to just replace one?


 
 As each tube is unique (even if they're the same brand and model), good tube retailers will try to match them as closely as possible so both channels have the same level of gain. My advice: replace both.
  
 Edit: Usually they charge you to have a matched pair (about $5 per tube). It doesn't apply if you get replacements directly form Schiit.


----------



## tedevang

Thanks - as long as I'll be getting a new set, any recommendations over the Phillips Miniwatt SQ's? I like the sound a bit on the warm side but with plenty of detail (especially for dense orchestral). I've been very happy with the sound but am open to experimenting.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

iFi is probably best.


----------



## Rowethren

tedevang said:


> Thanks - as long as I'll be getting a new set, any recommendations over the Phillips Miniwatt SQ's? I like the sound a bit on the warm side but with plenty of detail (especially for dense orchestral). I've been very happy with the sound but am open to experimenting.




I had a set of Philips Miniwatt SQ and the iFi NOS 6922 are better in every aspect to my ears so +1 on that recommendation.


----------



## tedevang

Great - just ordered a pair. Thanks for the recommendation.


----------



## FLTWS

I agree with both bosiemoncrieff and Rowethren, I'm running the iFi NOS 6922 presently in my MJ 2 and they do an impressive job even in comparison to my Joti and Ragy.


----------



## Thenazgul

econaut said:


> Is it true that the Jotunheim has a better resolution than the Mjolnir 2? It was recommended to me as a better pairing for my HD 650s.
> 
> I don't intend to get into the tube rolling thing, if I don't have to, but might get a LCD3 or something similar in the future.
> 
> Got a Gumby already.


 
 I don't believe that. It might be more related to the stock tubes being used. And the combination with the DAC.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

So I'm coming to the realization that I definitely don't have golden ears. Replaced an orange globe with LISST and the experience isn't nearly as jarring as I expected. No channel imbalance that I can hear. LISST is a little tighter, I guess, but I forget about it very quickly.


----------



## watchnerd

bosiemoncrieff said:


> So I'm coming to the realization that I definitely don't have golden ears. Replaced an orange globe with LISST and the experience isn't nearly as jarring as I expected. No channel imbalance that I can hear. LISST is a little tighter, I guess, but I forget about it very quickly.


 
  
 Yay for self-honesty and lack of a need to second-guess and force yourself to hear something.


----------



## Baldr

bosiemoncrieff said:


> So I'm coming to the realization that I definitely don't have golden ears. Replaced an orange globe with LISST and the experience isn't nearly as jarring as I expected. No channel imbalance that I can hear. LISST is a little tighter, I guess, but I forget about it very quickly.


 

 Not even with Ms. Lieder??  Seriously, try it, old recordings and all!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I suppose A/Bing them the matched tubes sound better playing, say, her '20s vintage Liebestod, but the difference doesn't leap up and bark at me. HD800 sounds ruthless through either setup—people go on and on about amplification, but Jason's right about it being "the transducers, stupid," far more than DAC or Amp that moves the needle re sound. LISST are my only real experience of solid state, so I'm hardly an aficionado, but its difference from tubes is negligible to my ears. If the engineering goal wasn't to mimic tubes but rather to just make them "sound good," it seems to have hit the mark.


----------



## watchnerd

bosiemoncrieff said:


> If the engineering goal wasn't to mimic tubes but rather to just make them "sound good," it seems to have hit the mark.


 
  
 I've experienced a huge variance in what tubes sound like based upon the design (even when using the same types of tubes), with some sounding very modern (not so "tube like") and other sounding very vintage (very "tubey").
  
 My half-ass guess is that it relates to output impedances.


----------



## Illya

I own the HD800's how urgent is it to buy tubes for the mj2? Is the mj2 listenable with stock tubes and LISST?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Do you have a multibit DAC? Do you have Sonarworks? Do you listen to brighter, harsher genres like rock, pop, and metal, or less abrasive genres like classical or jazz?
  
 Stock tubes are fine, though they lack some refinement. LISST is fine for classical (though a MB dac is recommended) but for other genres you might reach for the tubes. Either way, Sonarworks is a must for most things other than classical.


----------



## westermac

illya said:


> I own the HD800's how urgent is it to buy tubes for the mj2? Is the mj2 listenable with stock tubes and LISST?


 
  
  


bosiemoncrieff said:


> Do you have a multibit DAC? Do you have Sonarworks? Do you listen to brighter, harsher genres like rock, pop, and metal, or less abrasive genres like classical or jazz?
> 
> Stock tubes are fine, though they lack some refinement. LISST is fine for classical (though a MB dac is recommended) but for other genres you might reach for the tubes. Either way, Sonarworks is a must for most things other than classical.


 
  
 +1
  
 Sonarworks is a must for me with the HD800, and that in combination with LISST makes for a really nice and linear signature; I wouldn't enjoy LISST/HD800 without Sonarworks (or tubes for that matter)... Unless you are one of those for whom the stock sound signature of the HD800 is fine.


----------



## bluesaint

I enjoyed my HD800 SDR with LISST for the impact it brings to the bass and speed, but it gets fatiguing after about 30min of listening.  And this is through iDSD Micro BL DAC featuring warm-ish burr brown chips.  the IFI NOS 6922 that I recommended to everyone on this thread is the way to go though.


----------



## Naugrim

bluesaint said:


> I enjoyed my HD800 SDR with LISST for the impact it brings to the bass and speed, but it gets fatiguing after about 30min of listening.  And this is through iDSD Micro BL DAC featuring warm-ish burr brown chips.  the IFI NOS 6922 that I recommended to everyone on this thread is the way to go though.


 
 Where do you buy the IFI NOS 6922s?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

westermac said:


> +1
> 
> Sonarworks is a must for me with the HD800, and that in combination with LISST makes for a really nice and linear signature; I wouldn't enjoy LISST/HD800 without Sonarworks (or tubes for that matter)... Unless you are one of those for whom the stock sound signature of the HD800 is fine.


 
 How do you feel about MJ2's prowess with the 600 and 650 respectively?


----------



## bluesaint

naugrim said:


> Where do you buy the IFI NOS 6922s?




They raised the prices I think, was$99 when I bought them,but here you go:

https://www.adorama.com/ifge5670tube.html?


----------



## Naugrim

bluesaint said:


> They raised the prices I think, was$99 when I bought them,but here you go:
> 
> https://www.adorama.com/ifge5670tube.html?


 
 I'm looking for something very clear.  I'm not sure if I need warm though. I have Ether Flows and I like to hear the details - sometimes they're so soft i feel like they need a bit more clarity, if that makes sense. But I also just want to get a good pair to start my collection.


----------



## gr8soundz

naugrim said:


> Where do you buy the IFI NOS 6922s?


 


bluesaint said:


> They raised the prices I think, was$99 when I bought them,but here you go:


 
  
 Still regular price at Music Direct but you may have to wait a while before they're shipped:
  
 https://www.musicdirect.com/tubes/ifi-nos-5670-6922-vacuum-tubes-pr


----------



## FLTWS

gr8soundz said:


> Still regular price at Music Direct but you may have to wait a while before they're shipped:
> 
> https://www.musicdirect.com/tubes/ifi-nos-5670-6922-vacuum-tubes-pr


 
  
 That's where I got mine, very happy with them.


----------



## westermac

@bosiemoncrieff I can't speak to the stock HD650 since I find it too dark for my taste, so mine has the rear foam/cage removed, but before I reacquired an HD800 I was running the MJ2 with HD600/HD650 exclusively, and loving it. Before that point I had never understood people running amps worth multiple times the value of their headphones, but now I believe all the HD6x0 evangelists who say they scale like crazy. The HD800 is obviously the more technically capable of the bunch but I don't feel the HD600/HD650 sell the MJ2 short in the least. Should I need to sell something down the road I'd miss the HD800, but would be perfectly happy with MJ2/HD6x0. (This is all referring to balanced of course). _Timbre _is what both these headphones really excel in (especially the HD600 IMO) and the MJ2 brings them to life in such a realistic sounding way it can be spooky.
  
 As far as which pairs better with the MJ2 that comes down to personal preference, before the HD800 arrived I was giving the HD600 and HD650 equal head time as they had different strengths. HD600 has clearer midrange/tighter bass and HD650 modded has a more relaxed sound with more air/treble extension. Hope this helps.


----------



## rhull1973

Just received my MJ2. Amperex orange globes, Gumby and Focal Elears with a balanced cable from Impact Audio Cables. My jaw is on the floor!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

rhull1973 said:


> Just received my MJ2. Amperex orange globes, Gumby and Focal Elears with a balanced cable from Impact Audio Cables. My jaw is on the floor!


 

 Sounds about right! Feel free to share your impressions with specific pieces of music and genres.


----------



## MattTCG

rhull1973 said:


> Just received my MJ2. Amperex orange globes, Gumby and Focal Elears with a balanced cable from Impact Audio Cables. My jaw is on the floor!


 
  
 Wow, what an abundance of goodies all in one shot!! That would certainly put my brain in overload.


----------



## DWbirdseye

rhull1973 said:


> Just received my MJ2. Amperex orange globes, Gumby and Focal Elears with a balanced cable from Impact Audio Cables. My jaw is on the floor!



Very nice, and I can relate! I've been enjoying the same combo with HD800S and hg 1975 reflektors for over a year. I have a solid jaw impression on the floor beneath my feet.


----------



## peresmeshnik

I just received my first Schiit amp --- a Mjolnir 2 --- and I will be connecting my turntable to its single-stage RCA inputs via a Bellari VC130 single-tube phono preamp. My question is, if/when I begin to invest in additional tubes, how important is it, sonically and/or electrically, that the single tube in the Bellari match up with the two tubes in the Mjolnir 2? Or should I not worry about any cumulatively negative effect from using completely different tube brands/years in each of the two preamps?
  
 Thanks in advance for any feedback!


----------



## Starburp701

I'm having a crisis, fellas... and I need your help!
  
 As you all know, tax returns are upon us and just so happens my birthday is coming up. I'm having trouble deciding whether I should upgrade my *Lyr to a Mjolnir 2* _or _upgrade my *Modi2ber to a BiMBy. *I'm using LCD-2's (2016 Aluminum)
  
 *Please, only input from those who have transitioned from Lyr 1 or 2 to Mj2 or have upgraded from Schiit D/S to MB and have suggestions that pertain to actual experience. 
 Thanks!


----------



## Rowethren

I would say Bimby, multibit is a huge upgrade!


----------



## Matrixnobu

Subbed....


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I went from Boober to Bimby and it was really excellent. My MO is always upgrade the weakest link in your chain, which right now is undoubtedly Moober. I'm not in love with Lyr, but I think Mjolnir would not make a huge difference for your LCD-2. Better to get iFi tubes to get the most out of Lyr. Besides, Bimby matches Lyr physically.


----------



## Rowethren

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I went from Boober to Bimby and it was really excellent. My MO is always upgrade the weakest link in your chain, which right now is undoubtedly Moober. I'm not in love with Lyr, but I think Mjolnir would not make a huge difference for your LCD-2. Better to get iFi tubes to get the most out of Lyr. Besides, Bimby matches Lyr physically.


 
  
 +1 to everything you said lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Although personally I found the Mjolnir 2/Gumby stack an absolute beast so maybe save up and get that? This is comes from someone who owned a Bimby/Lyr2 stack for over a year.


----------



## Starburp701

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I'm not in love with Lyr, but I think Mjolnir would not make a huge difference for your LCD-2.




Lol what would make you say that?


----------



## Starburp701

rowethren said:


> +1 to everything you said lol :tongue_smile:  Although personally I found the Mjolnir 2/Gumby stack an absolute beast so maybe save up and get that? This is comes from someone who owned a Bimby/Lyr2 stack for over a year.




Appreciate your feedback. Seems as though the way to go is MJ2 and save up for a Gumby considering the DAC is the least dramatic aspect of a setup. Ordering a Bimby doesn't make much sense at this point if I'm aiming to go fully balanced in the long run! 

Edit: Plus I could sell my Lyr and the tubes that won't be compatible anymore, my Schiit Stack, some headphones, etc. I'll be there in no time lol


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

lol if you want to get MJ2 get MJ2. If you know you're going to supersede Bimby with Gumby someday, by all means, skip the middle step (as I did going from Vali to MJ2). If you merely wanted confirmation that a plan you had already assembled was the correct one, though, you might have said as much


----------



## Thenazgul

Is it possible to connect these 3-way speakers (2x, L and R) to the Mjolnir 2 ? http://www.eve-audio.com/index.php?page=SC305#nogo . It has a balanced XLR-input.


----------



## watchnerd

thenazgul said:


> Is it possible to connect these 3-way speakers (2x, L and R) to the Mjolnir 2 ? http://www.eve-audio.com/index.php?page=SC305#nogo . It has a balanced XLR-input.


 
  
 Yes, no problem.


----------



## vvar10ck

I'm using my Schiit Audio Mj-2 with AudioZenith Pmx2 - it sounds perefect! XLR is preffered! I have tried stock tubes and NOS USSR tubes - I think LISST is more neutral!


----------



## Thenazgul

watchnerd said:


> Yes, no problem.


 
 Thank you for the information.


----------



## Starburp701

bosiemoncrieff said:


> lol if you want to get MJ2 get MJ2. If you know you're going to supersede Bimby with Gumby someday, by all means, skip the middle step (as I did going from Vali to MJ2). If you merely wanted confirmation that a plan you had already assembled was the correct one, though, you might have said as much




I was looking for insight from people who had experience making the posssible transitions that I'm highly considering. When you are about to make a large investment, sometimes it's nice to hear from other people who are having a positive experence to get that push you need. I thought it was clear that I was looking for validation from those who've walked my path, surpassed, and are content.


----------



## watchnerd

starburp701 said:


> I was looking for insight from people who had experience making the posssible transitions that I'm highly considering. When you are about to make a large investment, sometimes it's nice to hear from other people who are having a positive experence to get that push you need. I thought it was clear that I was looking for validation from those who've walked my path, surpassed, and are content.


----------



## Rowethren

In that case... Do it!  does that help?


----------



## Starburp701

rowethren said:


> In that case... Do it!  does that help?




Unfortunately, no. Your trite recommendation of mediocre GE JAN's with iFi snake oil socket made it effortless for me to eliminate your opinion instantaneously.


----------



## tjl5709

starburp701 said:


> I was looking for insight from people who had experience making the posssible transitions that I'm highly considering. When you are about to make a large investment, sometimes it's nice to hear from other people who are having a positive experence to get that push you need. I thought it was clear that I was looking for validation from those who've walked my path, surpassed, and are content.


 
  
 My story. Bifrost/Lyr 2/HD650 & Mad Dogs. Moved to Gumby/MJ2/Balanced HD650 & SE Maddog's. Unbelievable move. But the HD650's exceeded the maddogs, so I went Ether C's (I need a closed option). Ether C's exceeded the HD650's. Moved up to HD800s. I was so intrigued by the clarity and musicality of the multibit platform, I moved up to Yggy. Currently upgrading the C's to flows. For all practical purposes, I'm done with my dynamic chain. Waiting patiently to see what transpires with the Mr Speaker e-Stats. 
  
 My comments to you. To get the most out of MJ2, you need to go balanced. Also, you made a comment earlier about the DAC being the least impactful. I disagree. The MJ2 is cleaner and better sounding than the Lyr2 on the top and bottom end. You want to feed it with a good signal.


----------



## Starburp701

tjl5709 said:


> My story. Bifrost/Lyr 2/HD650 & Mad Dogs. Moved to Gumby/MJ2/Balanced HD650 & SE Maddog's. Unbelievable move. But the HD650's exceeded the maddogs, so I went Ether C's (I need a closed option). Ether C's exceeded the HD650's. Moved up to HD800s. I was so intrigued by the clarity and musicality of the multibit platform, I moved up to Yggy. Currently upgrading the C's to flows. For all practical purposes, I'm done with my dynamic chain. Waiting patiently to see what transpires with the Mr Speaker e-Stats.
> 
> My comments to you. To get the most out of MJ2, you need to go balanced. Also, you made a comment earlier about the DAC being the least impactful. I disagree. The MJ2 is cleaner and better sounding than the Lyr2 on the top and bottom end. You want to feed it with a good signal.




Thank you for the honest and helpful feedback. Gumby is definitely on my short list soon after MJ2. My first and only experience with both MJ2 and Ether Flows were together at Canjam NYC earlier this month. Unfortunately you get a lot of noise bleeding into your cans at these convention but I definitely left knowing 2 things. 
1. My setup is still great and sounds better than a lot of things I heard
& 2. I need a Mjolnir2 or a Multibit DAC, and soon.
 I even listened to the Hifiman Shangri-la's shortly after ($50k electrostatic tube setup) and I have to say I prefered the Mj2. I sold my uber schiit stack yesterday and ordered a Modi Multibit for the time being so I can get that Multibit goodness and Mimby has a great resale value from what ive seen. Ordering MJ2 comes on the 23rd when Federal deposits.
As for headphones at the convention, I didn't hear anything that made me want to replace my LCD 2's. Even the LCD 4's with The King amp combo didn't give me the itch. It sounds improved and refined but not enough to warrant $3k extra which was a relief because I thought I was going to want everything I heard and go home unsatisfied but it was quite the opposite. Haha


----------



## winders

For you guys that went from the Lyr (1 or 2) to the Mjolnir 2, what differences did you notice? Did the tubes used have the same influence on the music? How much better did it sound? Why? I am using Sennheiser HD 650 headphones. Who uses those headphones and what changes did you notice when you went to a balanced setup?
  
 I ask because I recently upgraded from the Vali 2 to the Lyr 2 and the step up in sound quality, both with my headphones and my powered monitors, was significant. The tubes I liked with the Vali 2 I also liked with the Lyr 2. Is there a significant step up in sound quality when going from the Lyr 2 to the Mjolnir 2? Or is it more incremental in nature?
  
 Thanks!!


----------



## tjl5709

winders said:


> For you guys that went from the Lyr (1 or 2) to the Mjolnir 2, what differences did you notice? Did the tubes used have the same influence on the music? How much better did it sound? Why? I am using Sennheiser HD 650 headphones. Who uses those headphones and what changes did you notice when you went to a balanced setup?
> 
> I ask because I recently upgraded from the Vali 2 to the Lyr 2 and the step up in sound quality, both with my headphones and my powered monitors, was significant. The tubes I liked with the Vali 2 I also liked with the Lyr 2. Is there a significant step up in sound quality when going from the Lyr 2 to the Mjolnir 2? Or is it more incremental in nature?
> 
> Thanks!!


 
  
 The HD650's scale up well. I got a balanced cable from the big internet bookstore.
  
 Keep in mind I went from Bifrost/Lyr2 to Gumby/MJ2. The move was huge. Much cleaner bottom and top end. Mid's were the same. Tubes have the same effect on both. I run CCa's and it sounds fantastic.


----------



## winders

tjl5709 said:


> The HD650's scale up well. I got a balanced cable from the big internet bookstore.
> 
> Keep in mind I went from Bifrost/Lyr2 to Gumby/MJ2. The move was huge. Much cleaner bottom and top end. Mid's were the same. Tubes have the same effect on both. I run CCa's and it sounds fantastic.


 

 Yeah, I was afraid of that! The idea of another sound quality increase like I just had upgrading from the Vali 2 to the Lyr 2 is enticing! If I upgrade from the Lyr 2 to the Mjolnir 2, I would go ahead and do the upgrade from Mimby to Gumby as well. I don't know why I am saying "if"......


----------



## tjl5709

winders said:


> Yeah, I was afraid of that! The idea of another sound quality increase like I just had upgrading from the Vali 2 to the Lyr 2 is enticing! If I upgrade from the Lyr 2 to the Mjolnir 2, I would go ahead and do the upgrade from Mimby to Gumby as well. I don't know why I am saying "if"......


 
  
 LOL, it's inevitable.
  
 But trust me, the clarity and richness that stack will provide will astound you. I can't speak for you or the music you listen to, but I have a CD library going back to when that format first came out, (yea, I'm old) and I was floored on how well they sounded, and the amount of clarity and detail they brought out. Be prepared to rehear some of your old favorites as you will find details that you never knew were there.


----------



## rhull1973

tjl5709 said:


> LOL, it's inevitable.
> 
> But trust me, the clarity and richness that stack will provide will astound you. I can't speak for you or the music you listen to, but I have a CD library going back to when that format first came out, (yea, I'm old) and I was floored on how well they sounded, and the amount of clarity and detail they brought out. Be prepared to rehear some of your old favorites as you will find details that you never knew were there.



Completely agree. The detail level is phenomenal. Came from a biftost Uber/jotenheim. The gumby/mj2 is in a different league.


----------



## winders

tjl5709 said:


> LOL, it's inevitable.
> 
> But trust me, the clarity and richness that stack will provide will astound you. I can't speak for you or the music you listen to, but I have a CD library going back to when that format first came out, (yea, I'm old) and I was floored on how well they sounded, and the amount of clarity and detail they brought out. Be prepared to rehear some of your old favorites as you will find details that you never knew were there.




Yes, I am old too! CDs came out when I was 22 and coincided with me having some money to spend on audio. I had brief fling with dbx encoded vinyl. Those records had some serious dynamic range! I had decent system with ess high efficiency speakers. The CD format was great except that it sounded a little clinical. I think we all understand that was due to the first DACs built into the CD players. 

I am regularly astonished at how good CDs sound now with my Mimby and Lyr 2 with Siemens CCa tubes. I hear things I have never heard before. The same is true for the 16/44.1 content I have from iTunes. At some point I will buy a well recorded favorite album at lossless 24/192 to find out if I can hear a worthwhile difference. I hope I don't!!!

The bad thing about the Gumby/MJ2 combo is that it doesn't fit on my desk with my other computer stuff. I will have to buy an end to stick right next my desk.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

There's something of a U-shape to Schiit's DAC lineup in terms of value, with the balanced JotunDAC the most impressive of all. Bifrost and Bimby are great, but if I were starting today, would either get Mimby or go all the way to balanced multibit.


----------



## winders

bosiemoncrieff said:


> There's something of a U-shape to Schiit's DAC lineup in terms of value, with the balanced JotunDAC the most impressive of all. Bifrost and Bimby are great, but if I were starting today, would either get Mimby or go all the way to balanced multibit.


 

 That's why I am going from Mimby to Gumby when I get the Mjolnir 2 and why I didn't upgrade to Bimby when I went o the Lyr 2. Jotunheim with the balanced DAC may be a great bargain, but the DAC is not multibit so it holds little interest to me.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Hello Everyone,
  
 I finally think I'm going to get my first 'tube' amp ... I already have a Gumby so I thought I would try the Mjolnir 2.
 I currently have a Liquid Carbon and a Magni 2 Uber.I was wondering if this was a wise move? I figured it would be a good first step to get my foot in the door. Any opinions on getting the either the LSST or Stock Tubes or maybe both initially?


----------



## tvnosaint

If you get the lisst there will be no tubes in your chain. It will be all ss.


----------



## Eldair

I might ask stupid question but here we go. Can i use Modi 2 as dac for Mjolnir 2? Well i can but how big bottleneck it will be?


----------



## watchnerd

eldair said:


> I might ask stupid question but here we go. Can i use Modi 2 as dac for Mjolnir 2? Well i can but how big bottleneck it will be?


 
  
 I've used my MJ2 with all sorts of interfaces, DACs, and even (external) DAC-less.  Since the MJ2 is such a powerhouse, it can really add 'oomph' and dynamics that less expensive DACs may be a bit short of (when compared to pricier DACs with bigger power supplies).  
  
 It will be perfectly enjoyable with the Modi 2.
  
 Yes, you can do a bit better with a better DAC, but I'd live with the Modi 2 until / unless you already have your end-game headphones.  Only then would I bother upgrading the DAC to get that last bit of icing.


----------



## rmoody

eldair said:


> I might ask stupid question but here we go. Can i use Modi 2 as dac for Mjolnir 2? Well i can but how big bottleneck it will be?


 
  
 Sure, you can use any DAC you like. Obviously you won't be able to feed it with a balanced signal, but there's nothing "wrong" with it. I would try to stretch the budget to a Modi MultiBit if you could swing that. I started with a Modi 2 Uber, then Bifrost, then Bifrost MultiBit then Gungnir deltasigma, still saving to upgrade to MultiBit, other things happening (FreeNAS upgrade).


----------



## Eldair

Well i´m upgrading my gear starting with amp and then new phones (current HD 600). I was just think that i can order Modi 2 same time when Mjol but thats best i can do now.


----------



## BillOhio

It looks like I've officially joined the club as I just grabbed a Gumby'Mjo2 from the buy-sell forum here. I guess I'm living dangerously as I won't have a warranty. Are there many reports of Schiit products conking out after they've been used for a few months?


----------



## mhamel

If anyone is looking for a MJ2 with LSST, tubes, Tubemonger socket savers, several pairs of tubes plus a pair of adapters for 5670/25C1/WE396/6H3N and 2 pairs of excellent 6H3N, I just put it up in the FS forum.  I love the amp, but since I bought a Freya and the Freya needs to occupy the same space in my gear rack as the Mjolnir, one them has to go. 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/839045/schiit-mjolnir-2-with-lsst-extra-tubes-and-more
  
    -Mike


----------



## tjl5709

jerryleeds said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I finally think I'm going to get my first 'tube' amp ... I already have a Gumby so I thought I would try the Mjolnir 2.
> I currently have a Liquid Carbon and a Magni 2 Uber.I was wondering if this was a wise move? I figured it would be a good first step to get my foot in the door. Any opinions on getting the either the LSST or Stock Tubes or maybe both initially?


 
 Not sure what you ended up doing, but I would get the LSST to have the SS option, but I would go NOS on the tubes. It's the only way to "roll" so to speak. Just say'in.


----------



## JerryLeeds

I ordered the M2 with the tubes only option ... I already have solid state options... I've also ordered 5 different sets of tubes to try out along with the stock (after doing some research) ... 

The Cavalli LC I have will need to go back for some repairs .. the right channel on the balanced side went dead ... 

I've just started this hobby .. with some ZMF Eikons & Atticus ... I think I am pretty set .. my ears aren't too much better then this setup ...


----------



## MattTCG

jerryleeds said:


> I ordered the M2 with the tubes only option ... I already have solid state options... I've also ordered 5 different sets of tubes to try out along with the stock (after doing some research) ...
> 
> The Cavalli LC I have will need to go back for some repairs .. the right channel on the balanced side went dead ...
> 
> I've just started this hobby .. with some ZMF Eikons & Atticus ... I think I am pretty set .. my ears aren't too much better then this setup ...


 
  
 What sets of tubes did you order? Just curious.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Not that I know much of anything. These are the tubes sets plus I purchased a set of socket savers and some tube maintenance products I saw recommended 

- NOS 6922 E88CC 1974 Tesla nib Red Tip Military Czech Republic
- Electro-Harmonix 6922 Gold Tip
- JSC Voskhod 6N1P-EB
- JJ E88CC/6922 Gold
- Amperex 6922 E88CC 1961-1962 nib Gold Pin large halo getter


----------



## MattTCG

jerryleeds said:


> Not that I know much of anything. These are the tubes sets plus I purchased a set of socket savers and some tube maintenance products I saw recommended
> 
> - NOS 6922 E88CC 1974 Tesla nib Red Tip Military Czech Republic
> - Electro-Harmonix 6922 Gold Tip
> ...


 
  
 That's a very nice set of glass to go with the amp...enjoy!


----------



## mhamel

jerryleeds said:


> Not that I know much of anything. These are the tubes sets plus I purchased a set of socket savers and some tube maintenance products I saw recommended
> 
> - NOS 6922 E88CC 1974 Tesla nib Red Tip Military Czech Republic
> - Electro-Harmonix 6922 Gold Tip
> ...


 
  
 I think the 6N1P-EB exceed the rated heater current of the Mjolnir 2 - check with Schiit on that to confirm before you use those.


----------



## rnros

mhamel said:


> I think the 6N1P-EB exceed the rated heater current of the Mjolnir 2 - check with Schiit on that to confirm before you use those.


 

 True. I wouldn't put those in the MJ2, not even for a short time. 600mA heater vs the usual 300mA for MJ2.
@mhamel  Good catch! Not everyone is reading that carefully.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Just goes to show I'm a newbie .. lucky they were the cheapest set I purchased ... 

Thanks again ...


----------



## AverageGuyNC

Hi, just wondered if the mjolnir 2 has been compared much to the jotunheim? Is it going to sound pretty similar with LISST (I know tubes will change the sound). Curious if there is much difference in sound quality and bringing out the most detail and stuff like that, how similar are they? Worth the price difference? (I'm a rookie and never tried tubes yet)


----------



## MattTCG

averageguync said:


> Hi, just wondered if the mjolnir 2 has been compared much to the jotunheim? Is it going to sound pretty similar with LISST (I know tubes will change the sound). Curious if there is much difference in sound quality and bringing out the most detail and stuff like that, how similar are they? Worth the price difference? (I'm a rookie and never tried tubes yet)


 
  
 I have both currently on my desk. They are very different sounding amps, although I'd never use the LISST with the mjo2. I just don't see the point. It's just a better sounding amp with good tubes...heck, even stock tubes are better than LISST IMO. 
  
 The mjo2 is dynamic and punchy. Add a set of NOS tubes for some refinement to go along with the slam. The Jot is more neutral, quick but doesn't have the liquid mids of the mjo2. I like them both though.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

So they sound different but one is not not that much better than the other in sq ? I have jotunheim and wondered if there was a reason to go to mj2 other than tube rolling which I have not tried yet. I like the jotunheim a good bit, just curious


----------



## cskippy

averageguync said:


> So they sound different but one is not not that much better than the other in sq ? I have jotunheim and wondered if there was a reason to go to mj2 other than tube rolling which I have not tried yet. I like the jotunheim a good bit, just curious



I had Mjolnir 2 at the same time as Jot/Vali 2 combo and actually preferred the later, especially due to the price difference. I now have a Freya acting as a premp to Jot and my power amp and it's so fantastic! I would look at adding either a Saga or Freya instead.


----------



## ToddRaymond

cskippy said:


> I had Mjolnir 2 at the same time as Jot/Vali 2 combo and actually preferred the later, especially due to the price difference. I now have a Freya acting as a premp to Jot and my power amp and it's so fantastic! I would look at adding either a Saga or Freya instead.




Awesome. Happy to hear, as I may end up with that very combo. How are you finding the noise floor with that setup? Is it as good as Mjolnir 2 with nice, quiet tubes?


----------



## cskippy

I'm not to sure on the noise floor with very sensitive things like IEMs but with my TH-X00 and M1060, I can throw Jot on low gain and volume around 12 o'clock and have zero noise and good volume control with Freya.  It's a huge step up compared to MJ2.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

​The freya is for speakers right? Im only using headphones at this time (th900 and he400i)
  
 but with just jot, i leave it on low gain and about half way up


----------



## cskippy

Yes Freya is a stereo preamp but it can be used as a tube preamp into a headphone amp like the Jot.  It really makes a great combo, plus your set if you decide to use speakers in the future.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'll ask the community in general, mj2 or saga->jot? Assume both are fed by bimby.


----------



## Thenazgul

I am a bit confused. In a few days I've wanted to order the Mjolnir 2 and Gungnir Multibit. I've been reading on the usage of the Mjolnir 2 as pre-amp with active monitors(speakers). Yet I cannot really find much information. How does tube-characterics sound through speakers etc? Guess the quality of the tubes really matter for speakers. 
 Apart from that  the Mjolnir-2 will not mute the pre-amp XLR-output when a XLR-headphone is plugged duo the circuitry it uses. So I will need a attenuator (like the Emotiva Control  freak or TC Electronic Level Pilot) in between. This to avoid blowing up the fuse when switching my Mjolnir 2 on/of when using it in combination with headphones.  
   
 I also did look at the Schiit Freya. But it does lacks a XLR-Headphone connection. I would like to switch between speakers and headphones.
 Could someone advice me?


----------



## Thenazgul

averageguync said:


> ​The freya is for speakers right? Im only using headphones at this time (th900 and he400i)
> 
> but with just jot, i leave it on low gain and about half way up


 
 It is kinda unclear what benefits the freya does bring. Apart from the remote controller then, possibility to power speakers completely (active/passive)
 Most of the speakers are active-ones anyway. But it lacks XLR-headphone connection of the Mjolnir 2.


----------



## Eldair

Hey, I have think about pairing Mjr 2 with Saga. Any thoughts about this?


----------



## rhull1973

Have had a few weird issues. My left channel will die shortly after turning the amp on. The tube will actually stop glowing. It doesn't happen all of the time and the majority of the time works fine. Anyone else experience this?


----------



## cskippy

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I'll ask the community in general, mj2 or saga->jot? Assume both are fed by bimby.


 
 You already have the amp you're trying to make ie. MJ2.  Saga Jot is just a different flavor of the same thing.  


eldair said:


> Hey, I have think about pairing Mjr 2 with Saga. Any thoughts about this?


 
 Again, why?  What are you trying to accomplish?  You already have tubes in the MJ2 so why add more components into the chain?  
  
 I use Freya>Jot to add some tube flavor.  I demoed a MJ2 and chose this instead.  I'll also be using Freya for it's intended purpose of balanced preamp.  If you already have MJ2, then just stick with it and look for something completely different.


----------



## cskippy

rhull1973 said:


> Have had a few weird issues. My left channel will die shortly after turning the amp on. The tube will actually stop glowing. It doesn't happen all of the time and the majority of the time works fine. Anyone else experience this?


 
 Sounds like one of your tubes is dying.  Or there is an issue with your amp.  Try swapping the tubes and see if the issue changes sides.


----------



## Eldair

This is why i ask your thoughts about pairing those. Mostly i was interest remote control. Mayby i´ll just wait and save for Gumby...


----------



## cskippy

That's probably the better choice.  You'll get more benefit from Gumby over a new amp.


----------



## rhull1973

cskippy said:


> Sounds like one of your tubes is dying.  Or there is an issue with your amp.  Try swapping the tubes and see if the issue changes sides.


Definitely not the tube. I swapped them and it still happened.


----------



## rhull1973

rhull1973 said:


> Definitely not the tube. I swapped them and it still happened.


I think this may have resulted from over zealous tube swapping. May have triggered the protection circuit. I did turn it off while swapping tubes. All is well today.


----------



## cskippy

Glad to hear it.


----------



## Thenazgul

if the budget allows it, should I go for the Gungnir Multibit + Ragnarok combination? Is the Ragnarok better compared to the Mjolnir 2. Also for driving speakers? Do I need a Emotiva Control Freak with the Ragnarok as well? Guess that one could switch from input (between speakers, headphone or both)


----------



## winders

I ordered a Mjolnir 2 yesterday to go along with my Yggdrasil. I like my Lyr 2 quite a bit, but I look forward to listening to the Mjolnir 2. Driving my Sennheiser HD 650 headphones with a quality XLR cable should improve the sound a bit and using XLR interconnects between the Yggdrasil and Mjolnir 2 can't hurt.


----------



## Thenazgul

winders said:


> I ordered a Mjolnir 2 yesterday to go along with my Yggdrasil. I like my Lyr 2 quite a bit, but I look forward to listening to the Mjolnir 2. Driving my Sennheiser HD 650 headphones with a quality XLR cable should improve the sound a bit and using XLR interconnects between the Yggdrasil and Mjolnir 2 can't hurt.


 
 Of course that would improve the sound. More power and less noise and better channel separation. I might go for the Yggdrasil (instead of the Gungnir Multibit)and Mjolnir 2 as well. In a few days I could do my salary calculations. Make sure that you set a Emotiva Control Freak or TC Level Pilot (attenuator) between the Mjolnir-2 and speakers. The Mjolnir 2 and Ragnarok doesn't mute the pre-amp outputs when you plugin your headphone. It could result in blowing the fuse. 

 Yet I am still uncertain how to set the volume levels. On either the speakers, attenuator or amplifier. And which one to adjust first. When you turn of/on your amplifier it is best to set volume on zero. Same with the attenuator. Attenuator for pre-amp output keeps on volume zero when using your headphone. Or you have to turn off-speakers.
 Then when you want to switch from headphone to speakers. Lower amplifier volume to zero. Remove headphone cable.  Open attenuator volume to max (for no resistance)
 Then adjust amplifier volume to level you want?  What volume is safe to put your speakers on (40% depending on room??)


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

If speakers might be on your horizon, go gumby/rag. If not, Yggy/MJ2 is more flexible for headphones.


----------



## winders

bosiemoncrieff said:


> If speakers might be on your horizon, go gumby/rag. If not, Yggy/MJ2 is more flexible for headphones.


 

 My plan is Yggdrasil and Mjolnir 2 for headphones and my nearfield powered monitors. When Schiit comes out either Vidar amp, I will buy a Freya and two Vidar amps to drive some quality room speakers.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I can't decide between Rag and WA5.


----------



## MattTCG

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I can't decide between Rag and WA5.


 
  
 Huh? That's not even a fair fight. I love Schiit amps but the wa5 even with stock tubes was superior to the Rag. And with NOS tubes...just wow.


----------



## kayhikski

winders said:


> I ordered a Mjolnir 2 yesterday to go along with my Yggdrasil. I like my Lyr 2 quite a bit, but I look forward to listening to the Mjolnir 2. Driving my Sennheiser HD 650 headphones with a quality XLR cable should improve the sound a bit and using XLR interconnects between the Yggdrasil and Mjolnir 2 can't hurt.


 
 I'm interested to hear how you make out.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

matttcg said:


> Huh? That's not even a fair fight. I love Schiit amps but the wa5 even with stock tubes was superior to the Rag. And with NOS tubes...just wow.


 

 I mean, yes. My point is I'm not sure the WA5 is "better enough" to justify the expense. Used it's at least 3.5k.


----------



## MattTCG

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I mean, yes. My point is I'm not sure the WA5 is "better enough" to justify the expense. Used it's at least 3.5k.


 
  
 Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying. I actually like the mjo2 over the Rag for most headphones and feel that it's an impressive amp at it's price once you have good tubes in it. Good luck with your decision.


----------



## bluesaint

Even Jason from Schiit said he personally prefers the Mjo2 over the rag as he can roll tubes.   I've ordered a iCan PRO amp and will see how that compares as well.  Reason being I'm finding synergy with my new HE1000V2 not being that great with the mj2.


----------



## winders

thenazgul said:


> Make sure that you set a Emotiva Control Freak or TC Level Pilot (attenuator) between the Mjolnir-2 and speakers. The Mjolnir 2 and Ragnarok doesn't mute the pre-amp outputs when you plugin your headphone. It could result in blowing the fuse.


 
  
 Thanks!
  
 Yes, I am aware of this "feature". My powered monitors have a volume control on front that I can easily reach from where I sit. I will see how adjusting the monitor volume that way works out for a while. Most of the time I listen to music using the monitors. But I definitely want an improved headphone experience!


----------



## rmoody

It's not controlling the volume that is the issue for me. It's when you turn the mj2 on, it sends a pop to the monitors when the relays close. One time this resulted in a $75 blown fuse as I had to return the mj2 to Schiit for repair. I have a control freak between the mj2 and my monitors now and always remember to turn the volume down on the mj2 and the control freak when I power off the mj2.

I didn't know the Ragnarock did this as well. Seems so trivial a thing to mute the preamp outs on power up or when headphones are connected.


----------



## winders

rmoody said:


> It's not controlling the volume that is the issue for me. It's when you turn the mj2 on, it sends a pop to the monitors when the relays close. One time this resulted in a $75 blown fuse as I had to return the mj2 to Schiit for repair. I have a control freak between the mj2 and my monitors now and always remember to turn the volume down on the mj2 and the control freak when I power off the mj2.
> 
> I didn't know the Ragnarock did this as well. Seems so trivial a thing to mute the preamp outs on power up or when headphones are connected.


 

 As I said, I listen to speakers most of the time. My current headphone amp/preamp is a Lyr 2. It also sends a pop to the speakers when the relays close. So I am used to turning the speaker volume all the way down. I don't like having to remember to do that though!


----------



## Thenazgul

bosiemoncrieff said:


> If speakers might be on your horizon, go gumby/rag. If not, Yggy/MJ2 is more flexible for headphones.


 
 Well I did read a lot yesterday. To be fair. Yggy + MJ2 will be better for speakers as well. The only benefit the Ragnarok has is it's built-in power supply to power the monitors (no big deal when you go for active monitors)


> And a input selector between headphones,speakers or both.


 
 Reaction of Nick from Schiit: When using active speakers with a line level input there is no switching both the headphone output and preamp outputs are always active the same as the Mjolnir 2. If you use passive speakers you can use the output switching. With other words the input selector on the Ragnarok has no value in combination with Active-monitors. And the Ragnarok does require either a switch or attenuator as well





 But it lacks the tube-sound which the MJ2 brings. I think Yggy gives more soundquality win compared to the Gungnir Multibit. 


 Just some information:

 Yesterday I went to visit my neighbour which works in the audio-world. He has a Cambridge Audio 851N connected to his active speakers by xlr. It is sound good. It seems Cambridge Audio has also a 851A to connect to (amplifier) which brings a headphone input. Yet it is no XLR. Interesting stuff though. Spotify Connect, DSD etc.


----------



## thyname

Just got my MJ2 today. Very excited.

Ordered a Holo Spring Level 3, so this would (hopefully) be my endgame setup for my SDR modded HD800.

This is my first tubes amp ever, so I have some (newbie) questions:

1 - How do you know when a tube is consumed/ spent?

2 - What is a NOS tube?

3 - what is a good tube that does not cost an arm and a leg?

4 - How do I know whether a tube is compatible with MJ2?

Thanks!


----------



## winders

thyname said:


> Just got my MJ2 today. Very excited.
> 
> Ordered a Holo Spring Level 3, so this would (hopefully) be my endgame setup for my SDR modded HD800.
> 
> ...


 

 1. I haven't had a tube die yet....so I don't know. Someone else will have to answer this question.
  
 2. NOS means New Old Stock. That is a tube manufactured some time ago that is unused.
  
 3. What is an arm and a leg?
  
 4. The Mjolnir 2 seems to have the same compatibility list as the Lyr 2. Check here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list


----------



## Baldr

winders said:


> 1. I haven't had a tube die yet....so I don't know. Someone else will have to answer this question.


 
 What happens in the real world is the tube runs along OK for several thousand hours (for the most part) until the cathode begins to get tired; the tube then gradually begins to sound like ass until one day you wonder:  Does my amp sound like ass, or am I imagining it?  You then replace the tubes, and voila, it is a vast improvement, not just a rolling difference.
  
 This is rare; it has happened only once or twice (with small signal tubes such as 6922, etc.) in my whole life.  I have been using tube amps for over 50 years now.


----------



## winders

baldr said:


> What happens in the real world is the tube runs along OK for several thousand hours (for the most part) until the cathode begins to get tired; the tube then gradually begins to sound like ass until one day you wonder:  Does my amp sound like ass, or am I imagining it?  You then replace the tubes, and voila, it is a vast improvement, not just a rolling difference.
> 
> This is rare; it has happened only once or twice (with small signal tubes such as 6922, etc.) in my whole life.  I have been using tube amps for over 50 years now.


 

 Thanks! I guess I am set for a long time with 7 match pairs of quality NOS tubes!


----------



## thyname

Thanks!

As for an Arm and a leg, don't know. This is certainly subjective. Given the price of Mjolnir 2, I would say anything great that cost less than $100 for the pair, is acceptable. I don't see myself buying tubes for $400 -$500 for an Amp that costs only twice that amount


----------



## Rowethren

thyname said:


> Thanks!
> 
> As for an Arm and a leg, don't know. This is certainly subjective. Given the price of Mjolnir 2, I would say anything great that cost less than $100 for the pair, is acceptable. I don't see myself buying tubes for $400 -$500 for an Amp that costs only twice that amount


 
  
 I am still a fan of the iFi NOS 6922 tubes; they are based on the JAN GE5670 which as far as I remember Mike himself has recommended. You can get them cheaper if you buy the tubes and adaptors separately but in my opinion it is worth the extra cost to get piece of mind by getting it all pre-made and ready to fit into the Mjolnir 2. They go for about $100 as well so fits right in your budget.


----------



## FLTWS

rowethren said:


> I am still a fan of the iFi NOS 6922 tubes; they are based on the JAN GE5670 which as far as I remember Mike himself has recommended. You can get them cheaper if you buy the tubes and adaptors separately but in my opinion it is worth the extra cost to get piece of mind by getting it all pre-made and ready to fit into the Mjolnir 2. They go for about $100 as well so fits right in your budget.


 
  
 I agree, found the iFi NOS 6922 tubes with adapter already in place and tested to be excellent sound for the money in my MJ2, even when compared to my much more costly tube pairs.


----------



## thyname

And you guys buy those iFi NOS 6922 tubes directly from iFi website? As a set with the adapters?


----------



## MattTCG

thyname said:


> And you guys buy those iFi NOS 6922 tubes directly from iFi website? As a set with the adapters?


 I bought then from music Direct.


----------



## kayhikski

rowethren said:


> I am still a fan of the iFi NOS 6922 tubes; they are based on the JAN GE5670 which as far as I remember Mike himself has recommended. You can get them cheaper if you buy the tubes and adaptors separately but in my opinion it is worth the extra cost to get piece of mind by getting it all pre-made and ready to fit into the Mjolnir 2. They go for about $100 as well so fits right in your budget.


 
  
 +1
  
 I bought my iFi 5670 (6922) matched pair from Music Direct. 
  
 These are my first and only NOS tube purchase currently having only purchased my Mjolnir 2  a month or so ago. I am enjoying the way they sound immensely.


----------



## FLTWS

matttcg said:


> I bought then from music Direct.


 
  
 Ditto!


----------



## thyname

Guys:
  
 Rolling tubes is really hard with MJ2. I have read about "socket savers". Any brand / type that you guys recommend?
  
 I found these, but not sure if these are the right ones, or good enough for MJ2:
  
 http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_1960s_NOS_British_McMurdo_B9A_p/novib-mcmurdo.htm


----------



## winders

thyname said:


> Guys:
> 
> Rolling tubes is really hard with MJ2. I have read about "socket savers". Any brand / type that you guys recommend?
> 
> ...


 

 I use those and they work great!


----------



## JerryLeeds

Thanks for confirming.... I purchased those as well to use with my ordered MJ2 .. I'm hoping it is sent out soon


----------



## winders

jerryleeds said:


> Thanks for confirming.... I purchased those as well to use with my ordered MJ2 .. I'm hoping it is sent out soon


 

 My Mjolnir 2 hasn't shipped yet, either. I am using the socket savers in my Lyr 2 and used one in my Vali 2 before that.


----------



## DWbirdseye

thyname said:


> Guys:
> 
> Rolling tubes is really hard with MJ2. I have read about "socket savers". Any brand / type that you guys recommend?
> 
> ...



I've been using them for over a year now. I can recommend them.


----------



## thyname

Thanks everybody (on socket savers)!
  
 I went ahead and ordered a pair from Tubemonger direct.
  
 As for the tubes, I still wrap my head around to what I should buy, as an improvement from the MJ2 stock tubes. From Schiit site, it seems like the only options for their tube amps are:
  
 6DJ8
  
 6922
  
 ECC88
  
 6N23P
  
 6B27
  
 I do know NOS is preferred.
  
 When I browse the tubes section on tubemonger, music direct, and other sites, a bunch of different names, and codes / numbers come up. Which makes me totally confused. I also noticed eBay has some of the tubes stuff at very cheap prices, although not sure of authenticity of what they sell.
  
 I looked at the iFi stuff, but at $100 for the pair, still sounds like a lot to me, considering that I am just getting started with tubes.
  
 So, what do I do?


----------



## winders

I prefer the Siemens CCa and Telefunken CCa tubes from the early 1960's. I also like the Soviet Reflektor 6N23P (Single Wire Getter and Silver Shields) from 1975.
  
 The CCa tubes can cost a lot. I got mine from eBay from specific sellers I trust and never spent more than $250 per pair. I don't trust anyone on eBay for the Reflektor tubes.
  
 You can get tubes made in the Heerlen factory that sound great in the $100 range. I am not the person to ask about those tubes. But, you can search through the Lyr 2 Tube Rollers thread.


----------



## DWbirdseye

thyname said:


> Thanks everybody (on socket savers)!
> 
> I went ahead and ordered a pair from Tubemonger direct.
> 
> ...



Check out Rob2013 6922 tube review. He spent lots of time and money buying and reviewing many, many tubes. Make sure you buy from a reputable dealer. Some of the ebay dealers overseas are questionable. If you read through Rob's thread you might get a feel for what kind of sound you want. Don't cheap out as it will cost you in the end.


----------



## kayhikski

Has anyone tried Amperex 7308 tubes?
  
 rb2013 rates the Amperex 7308 highly in his tube review. Actually 2 different 60's vintage Amperex 7308 tubes make his top ten.
  
 Upscale Audio has 1960's Amperex 7308's for $129 each (platinum grade).


----------



## DWbirdseye

kayhikski said:


> Has anyone tried Amperex 7308 tubes?
> 
> rb2013 rates the Amperex 7308 highly in his tube review. Actually 2 different 60's vintage Amperex 7308 tubes make his top ten.
> 
> Upscale Audio has 1960's Amperex 7308's for $129 each (platinum grade).



Rob was specific about the year and the characteristics. It makes a difference, but since you don't have a perspective it doesn't hurt to jump in.


----------



## kayhikski

dwbirdseye said:


> Rob was specific about the year and the characteristics. It makes a difference, but since you don't have a perspective it doesn't hurt to jump in.


 
 Thanks. I take your point, and it's the reason I've decided to buy from a reputable source vs ebay.


----------



## tvnosaint

those are good tubes but a lot of people aren't crazy about them. To me the highs are to piercing . Better can be had for less. E188ccs and even Cca s sometimes, For what you generally have to pay for the best Russian tubes. Rob seems like a good guy. He has a lot of great gear. None of that means he has the same listening tastes as you.


----------



## Naugrim

jerryleeds said:


> Thanks for confirming.... I purchased those as well to use with my ordered MJ2 .. I'm hoping it is sent out soon


 
 I've been waiting for over two months


----------



## tjl5709

kayhikski said:


> Has anyone tried Amperex 7308 tubes?
> 
> rb2013 rates the Amperex 7308 highly in his tube review. Actually 2 different 60's vintage Amperex 7308 tubes make his top ten.
> 
> Upscale Audio has 1960's Amperex 7308's for $129 each (platinum grade).


 
 I have both his 7308's and e88cc's. They sound very good. to me.


----------



## FLTWS

tjl5709 said:


> I have both his 7308's and e88cc's. They sound very good. to me.


 
  
 I agree.


----------



## thyname

Do you guys use the stock power cable that comes with Mjolnir 2, or an aftermarket one?

I know this topic is controversial, but I thought I'd ask.


----------



## kayhikski

fltws said:


> I agree.


 
 Thanks. How would you compare the Amperex 7308's to the iFi NOS 5670's?
  
 Uncle Kev at Upscale describes the 7308's as "Ever so slightly relaxed on top. Liquid, smooth midband. Fabulous, slightly full bass."
 Elsewhere on the site he refers to their warmth ...


----------



## kayhikski

tvnosaint said:


> those are good tubes but a lot of people aren't crazy about them. To me the highs are to piercing . Better can be had for less. E188ccs and even Cca s sometimes, For what you generally have to pay for the best Russian tubes. Rob seems like a good guy. He has a lot of great gear. None of that means he has the same listening tastes as you.


 
  
 Thanks very much. It's startling how expensive some of the rare tubes can be.
  
  


tjl5709 said:


> I have both his 7308's and e88cc's. They sound very good. to me.


 
  
 Thanks very much. Which E88CC's? I've also been looking at the Telefunken E88CC's but they run over $400/pair for Platinum Grade.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Going to be my first time tube rolling here. I think I might have purchased a few too many matched tube sets. I guess I'm pretty well set for a very very long time (see below)
  
 Also, I have a Gumby. What way do you all connect your computers to your Gumby? I'm using USB into a Wyrd and then balanced between the Gumby and a Liquid Carbon --> waiting for MJ2 to come. 
  
 TheTubeStore
 Electro-Harmonix 6922 Gold Pin
 JJ Electronic E88CC/6922 Gold Pin
  
 Tubemonger
 Brimar Ediswan ECC88 6DJ8 - Like NEW Late 1960s BVA Thorn-AEI Rochester Production - Made In ENGLAND
 Russian ECC88 Mil Prod - MINT NOS NIB AEG Label - 1980s
 Siemens E88CC 6922 - MINT NOS NIB 1974 A-Frame Gold Pin with Metal Stamp Date Code A6 4E - Munich Prod - Made in Germany
 Tungsram E88CC 6922 - Rare FEB and JULY-1979 MINT NOS NIB Industrial Prod. with Red Serial No. and Certificate
 Amperex 6922 E88CC USA - MINT NOS NIB 1965-69 Gold Pin Large Halo Getter - Lewis and Kaufman Label Los Gatos
  
 eBay - TubeHunter
 MATSU****A MULLARD NATIONAL RED LETTER 6DJ8 ECC88 1970's
  
 eBay - TubeMuseum
 NOS 6922 E88CC TESLA RED-TIP MILITARY Czech Republic 70's Tesla Rožnov Factory


----------



## FLTWS

kayhikski said:


> Thanks. How would you compare the Amperex 7308's to the iFi NOS 5670's?
> 
> Uncle Kev at Upscale describes the 7308's as "Ever so slightly relaxed on top. Liquid, smooth midband. Fabulous, slightly full bass."
> Elsewhere on the site he refers to their warmth ...


 
  
 In my MJ2 I would say the 5670's are not as warm as the 7308's, a bit dryer more analytical sound than the 7308's. Both pair are very quiet, noise free, and I'm happy listening with either.


----------



## FLTWS

thyname said:


> Do you guys use the stock power cable that comes with Mjolnir 2, or an aftermarket one?
> 
> I know this topic is controversial, but I thought I'd ask.


 
  
 Stock


----------



## JerryLeeds

Anyone know of a cheaper XLR Balanced Stereo A/B switch?
  
 http://www.goldpt.com/sw2x.html     The model: SW2X-O looks like the perfect fit but it's a bit high in price


----------



## kayhikski

fltws said:


> In my MJ2 I would say the 5670's are not as warm as the 7308's, a bit dryer more analytical sound than the 7308's. Both pair are very quiet, noise free, and I'm happy listening with either.


 
 Thanks very much for this informative response.


----------



## kayhikski

thyname said:


> Do you guys use the stock power cable that comes with Mjolnir 2, or an aftermarket one?
> 
> I know this topic is controversial, but I thought I'd ask.


 
 IMO aftermarket cords are mostly in the realm of tiny improvements where you are trying to do everything you can to get the very best sound.
  
 There are affordable aftermarket cords; I'm using an aftermarket cord for my Mjolnir 2 from Signal Cable ($69 for 3').
  
 Signal Cable also offers a very competitively priced digital cord ($79 for 3') which I use on both my Gungnir MB and Bryston BUC-1 USB to S/PDIF convertor.
  
 I use a Furman PST8D conditioner which has separate outlets for analog and digital sources.


----------



## kayhikski

> Quote:


 


jerryleeds said:


> Going to be my first time tube rolling here. I think I might have purchased a few too many matched tube sets. I guess I'm pretty well set for a very very long time (see below)
> 
> Also, I have a Gumby. What way do you all connect your computers to your Gumby? I'm using USB into a Wyrd and then balanced between the Gumby and a Liquid Carbon --> waiting for MJ2 to come.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Wow that's a lot of tube goodness. I'm salivating. I hope there's a pair there that you fall in love with!
  
 I'm using a Bryston BUC-1 USB to s/PDIF convertor which afforded noticeable improvements in clarity and soundstage vs a Schiit Wyrd, via both Coaxial and BNC.
  
 The Wyrd is capable device and I use one to decrapify the USB feed to my Bifrost 4490 in the office at work but swapping out the Wyrd for the BUC-1 took my Gungnir MB + Mjolnir 2 to a whole other level. Bryston put a lot of thought into the linear power supply for the BUC-1 and its outputs are also galvanically isolated.
  
 There I go talking about power again ......


----------



## winders

I was lucky as I was able to figure out the tubes I liked when I had my Vali 2. Buying one matched triode tube is easier and obviously cheaper than buying a pair of tubes with matched triodes. Unfortunately, I ended up finding that I liked Siemens and Telefunken CCa tubes. I also like the 1975 Reflektor 6N23P SWGP Silver Shields tubes as well. I have three sets of Siemens CCa tubes, one set of Telefunken CCa tubes, and three sets of 1975 Reflektor tubes. I am rolling with a set of 1975 Reflektor tubes in my Lyr 2 right now. I sure hope all these tubes sound the same or better in my Mjolnir 2 when it arrives!
  
 I have set of XLR interconnects to connect my Yggdrasil to the Mjolnir 2 and XLR headphone cables for my HD 650 headphones coming on Monday. Now I just need Schiit to send out my Mjolnir 2!


----------



## neoluddite

I am using HiFiMan HE-1000's and HiFman Edition X and they are fine with the Mjolnir 2.. can easily deafen yourself w/o any distortion


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Indeed. Even HE-6 can get quite loud. I won't call it the last word on HE-6 or K1000 in terms of power, but it still does remarkably well on them. On every other, its power is far in excess of the requirement.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

neoluddite said:


> I am using HiFiMan HE-1000's and HiFman Edition X and they are fine with the Mjolnir 2.. can easily deafen yourself w/o any distortion




Do the he1000 and he x sound pretty similar? I know the he x is a lot more power efficient. Neither have that much bass do they?


----------



## neoluddite

Both are great!  The Limited X is physically much lighter and more comfortable than my HE-1000's (V1).  
  
 In terms of sound, I think the HE-1000's are a bit snappier in the bass, yet saying that implies the Limited X are flabby and loose; they certainly are not.  The mid-range on the HE-1000 feels a touch warmer.  Detail seems to me just as refined and precise.
  
 As an example, get the Riders on the Storm track from George Winston's piano album, "Night Divides the Day."  The bass note sections are remarkable.  He plays a Steinway, yet it sounds much richer and growlier like a Boesendorfer.  Anyway, that track conveys to me some differences.  The HE-1000's you have the sense of each of the bass note strings thrumming away with space and air between them.  the Limited X still sound great, just a tad less aural space sensation.
  
 YMMV


----------



## neoluddite

By the way, if you are used to closed cans, I think all planers will seem to have "less bass", yet I prefer the planar sound of the HiFiMan vs the Sennheiser HD800 which, FOR ME, were too clinical and neutral.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Yes ... my MJ2 is being shipped out today


----------



## winders

jerryleeds said:


> Yes ... my MJ2 is being shipped out today


 

 When did you order it?


----------



## JerryLeeds

March 3rd


----------



## Eric510

jerryleeds said:


> March 3rd




I placed my order 13 days later... *sigh* but thanks for the update dude! Hoping this means things will start shipping soon. I've got a Gungnir Multibit and MJ2 on order. :/


----------



## JerryLeeds

I've had my Gumby for a while in my living room home theater setup ... I haven't been listening to music thru this setup in a while so I moved the Gumby to my headphone setup ..


----------



## winders

jerryleeds said:


> Yes ... my MJ2 is being shipped out today


 

 I should get mine tomorrow!


----------



## neoluddite

Let me share a comment on Mjolnir2 settings for the HE1000 vs the HiFI Man Limited X...
  
 Max tolerable volume (deafening club level) for the HE-1000's, for me, is at 1200 position on the volume knob when the Mjolnir 2 gain / sensitivity switch being in the "up" position (e.g., low sensitivity headphones)
  
 for the Limited X, the Mjolnir2, the "too darned loud" volume knob position is about 1000 hrs position...BUT(!) with the Mjolnir2 gain / sensitivity switch being in the "down" position.  
  
 If I leave the Mjolnir2 gain / sensitivity switch is left in the "up" position when I use the Limited X headphones, then "too darned loud" is down at about the 7PM position for the volume knob leaving virtually no "play" to make minor volume adjustments.


----------



## Eldair

I have problem and i hope you guys can help me. I need DAC (with xlr out) for my MJ2. Around 500€. 
 Any recommendations?


----------



## dc430

eldair said:


> I have problem and i hope you guys can help me. I need DAC (with xlr out) for my MJ2. Around 500€.
> Any recommendations?




Emotive, Cayin iDac comes to mind for that price range with XLR balanced output


----------



## Carcajou

eldair said:


> I have problem and i hope you guys can help me. I need DAC (with xlr out) for my MJ2. Around 500€.
> Any recommendations?


 
 Check out the TEAC UD-301, I was considering it before I said screw it and went with a Gungnir instead. Reviews seem pretty good plus it has a built-in headphone amp.
  
 What I was doing before getting my Gungnir (since I ordered the MJ 2 several months before getting a Gungnir as I was mainly listening to vinyls at the time) was to use balanced TRS to XLR cables from my Fiio K5/Fiio X5-II balanced-out. Wasn't great, but it was good enough. 
  
 IMO though the extra $200 (USD is pretty close to the EUR right now) for a Gungnir is totally worth it as it was meant to be paired with the MJ2.
  
 Edit: Sorry, extra $300, not $200. Still worth it though


----------



## Eldair

That Teac sound interesting but mayby i should save some more and buy Gumby. Thanks for recommendations.


----------



## winders

eldair said:


> That Teac sound interesting but mayby i should save some more and buy Gumby. Thanks for recommendations.


 

 I would get a Gumby and use XLR interconnects. I just got a Mjolnir 2 and connected it to my Yggdrasil using "Amplifier Surgery" silver plated OFC XLR interconnects. Awesome sounding combination!


----------



## winders

I just got my Mjolnir 2. I had been using a Lyr 2. I put the socket savers and a pair of 1975 Reflectors in and connected it to my Yggdrasil using "Amplifier Surgery" silver plated OFC XLR interconnects.
  
 First, I listened to CCR's "Susie Q" using my powered monitors. Wow!  A clear step up in sound quality!! Then I listened to Yes's "Roundabout". Another wow! The Beatles' "Come Together" was next. The clarity and power of the bass. Another wow!!! Then it was Micheal Jackson's "Thriller". Again, another wow!
  
 Then I spent some time listening to my headphones. Whatever veil was might be present with the Sennheiser HD 650 headphones using lesser amps is most certainly gone! I don't know if is the "Amplifier Surgery" silver plated OFC XLR headphone cables or something else. All I know is that the HD 650 headphones sound the best they ever have!
  
 Color me happy!!!!


----------



## tjl5709

winders said:


> I just got my Mjolnir 2. I had been using a Lyr 2. I put the socket savers and a pair of 1975 Reflectors in and connected it to my Yggdrasil using "Amplifier Surgery" silver plated OFC XLR interconnects.
> 
> First, I listened to CCR's "Susie Q" using my powered monitors. Wow!  A clear step up in sound quality!! Then I listened to Yes's "Roundabout". Another wow! The Beatles' "Come Together" was next. The clarity and power of the bass. Another wow!!! Then it was Micheal Jackson's "Thriller". Again, another wow!
> 
> ...


 
 I basically did the same move. My question is did you run the HD's balanced? If not, you need to get some new cords 4 em.


----------



## Carcajou

tjl5709 said:


> I basically did the same move. My question is did you run the HD's balanced? If not, you need to get some new cords 4 em.


 
 They have HD6XX balanced ZY cables on massdrop right now, just sayin...


----------



## winders

tjl5709 said:


> I basically did the same move. My question is did you run the HD's balanced? If not, you need to get some new cords 4 em.


 

 As stated, I have "Amplifier Surgery" silver plated OFC XLR headphone cables for my HD 650 headphones. Great cables, by the way!


----------



## tjl5709

winders said:


> As stated, I have "Amplifier Surgery" silver plated OFC XLR headphone cables for my HD 650 headphones. Great cables, by the way!


 
 Sorry. Miss read your post. Enjoy, as I know you are.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Does using the 1/4 inch headphone jack negate the benefit of xlr interconnects between yggy and mj2?


----------



## winders

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Does using the 1/4 inch headphone jack negate the benefit of xlr interconnects between yggy and mj2?


 

 No. Both the Yggdrasil and Mjolnir 2 are true internal balanced and differential signal designs. The singled-ended headphone output is internally summed. When using XLR interconnects, the Yggdrasil and Mjolnir 2 communicate using a balanced and differential signal, regardless of the headphone output used.
  
 Interestingly enough, if you use an SE input into the Mjolnir 2, you can't use the XLR headphone output. There is no signal on that connector.


----------



## tjl5709

winders said:


> No. Both the Yggdrasil and Mjolnir 2 are true internal balanced and differential signal designs. The singled-ended headphone output is internally summed. When using XLR interconnects, the Yggdrasil and Mjolnir 2 communicate using a balanced and differential signal, regardless of the headphone output used.
> 
> Interestingly enough, if you use an SE input into the Mjolnir 2, you can't use the XLR headphone output. There is no signal on that connector.


 
  
  


bosiemoncrieff said:


> Does using the 1/4 inch headphone jack negate the benefit of xlr interconnects between yggy and mj2?


 
  
 In case you were unaware, SE out has lower power output than the xlr out.


----------



## Carcajou

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Does using the 1/4 inch headphone jack negate the benefit of xlr interconnects between yggy and mj2?


 
 Well actually the point of using a balanced setup is to eliminate crosstalk between channels created by the fact that both channels share a common ground (also xlr also allows you to run much longer distances due to higher voltage and redundant hot channel which cancels out interference). By using the 1/4 output, you go back to a common ground. So yes, you negate part of the benefit of using XLR interconnects.


----------



## Carcajou

winders said:


> Interestingly enough, if you use an SE input into the Mjolnir 2, you can't use the XLR headphone output. There is no signal on that connector.


 
  
 Technically the XLR headphone-out should work with both Balanced and SE outputs. This is from the instructions manual:
  
 "Yes, Mjolnir 2 is also a 2-input preamp and balanced-SE and SE-balanced converter. Fun times!"


----------



## Thenazgul

carcajou said:


> Well actually the point of using a balanced setup is to eliminate crosstalk between channels created by the fact that both channels share a common ground (also xlr also allows you to run much longer distances due to higher voltage and redundant hot channel which cancels out interference). By using the 1/4 output, you go back to a common ground. So yes, you negate part of the benefit of using XLR interconnects.


 

 Well on paper, yes. The higher voltage part, yes. The XLR-connection on the Mjolnir 2 power output 4 times more than the regular SE. About the crosstalk stuff etc, it is able to discuss. A lot of high-end amplifiers only have SE input. The SE cable used makes a difference though.


----------



## Carcajou

thenazgul said:


> A lot of high-end amplifiers only have SE input. The SE cable used makes a difference though.


 
 Is a High-end SE amp better than a mid-fi balanced amp? Probably. Is a good balanced amp better than an equivalent SE amp? I believe so. The marginal improvement is probably below 5% though. Another advantage is that Balanced setups aren't as cable sensitive as SE setups, again due to higher voltage and interference cancellation. 
  
 Again, for power-hungy cans, Balanced is a must. I don't know any headphone amp than can deliver 5W pc through SE (if anyone knows any I'd be curious to hear).


----------



## winders

carcajou said:


> Technically the XLR headphone-out should work with both Balanced and SE outputs. This is from the instructions manual:
> 
> "Yes, Mjolnir 2 is also a 2-input preamp and balanced-SE and SE-balanced converter. Fun times!"


 

 Even more interesting is how stupid I can be! Of course there will be no output from the XLR headphone port when you select the SE inputs vis the front switch *and* you have no interconnects on the SE inputs. Sometimes.......


----------



## winders

carcajou said:


> Well actually the point of using a balanced setup is to eliminate crosstalk between channels created by the fact that both channels share a common ground (also xlr also allows you to run much longer distances due to higher voltage and redundant hot channel which cancels out interference). By using the 1/4 output, you go back to a common ground. So yes, you negate part of the benefit of using XLR interconnects.


 

 But you don't negate the benefits of the XLR connection between the Yggdrasil and the Mjolnir 2...which was the question. The downsides are for the headphones, not the DAC to amp/preamp communications. The main downside is the SE outputs have less power (yes, I knew about that, tjl5709) than the XLR output.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

Has anyone tried the Utopia with the Mjolnir 2 and, if so, could provide some reference points to other amps? That seems like it would be excellent synergy.


----------



## Carcajou

I agree, you do eliminate the portion of crosstalk induced by connecting the DAC to the amp.


----------



## TK16

My MJ2 is due for delivery any time now. Cannot wait.


----------



## Rodat

I just got the Mjolnir 2 yesterday and the quality exceeds my expectations.
  
 Given that I had already purchased their Asgard 2, I was thinking that it would be hard to get much better than the Asgard, I could only justify it because I wanted the balanced XLR since I recently purchased a Sennheiser HD800S.
  
 The difference is day and light.
  
 The only surprise was that when you switch it on, there is a vibration/hum that lasts about 4 seconds and it fades away, it appears to be the A/C transformer. Also, the tubes sound a bit like they are sizzling on start up and shut down of the appliance, also perfectly normal it seems. Nick at Schiit wrote that it was expected behaviour.
  
 The sound coming from this amp is really amazing, I am not too sure how this is possible to get to this level with the same source music. The guys at Schiit certaintly did some magic with this product.
  
 My digital input is from a custom built computer into a Denon 300USB DAC (optical SPDIF), I also purchased the Gungir but I do not have it yet. I will post there again when I get a chance.
  
 I listen mostly to Itune and some FLACs as well, so nothing spectacular with the source music quality, neither am I using bit perfect playback software, recommendations welcome.
  
 Still the performance of this Mjolnir-2 is breathtaking. I am wondering if this can really get any better with their top of the range gear.


----------



## TK16

Heck yeah, just installed it, freaking breathtaking, though I am not using the stock tubes, got 1965 Siemens CCa grey shields in the MJ2 and 1958 Amperex 6922 Heerlen D-getters in my Lite Dac 68. First time running balanced. Nice you can change from balanced to SE with a flick of a switch. Using a HE-560 set of cans.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> ...freaking breathtaking...


 
  
 Sums up my thoughts pretty well!!


----------



## kayhikski

A lot of new Mjolnir 2 owners this week. Congrats to all of you!
  
 I'm close to a month in with my Mjolnir 2 and still in a state of enchantment. The first thing I do when I get home from work is turn on the Mjolnir to warm up (Gungnir MB stays on) and after dinner I spend the evening sneaking into my office to listen to music every chance I get.


----------



## winders

kayhikski said:


> A lot of new Mjolnir 2 owners this week. Congrats to all of you!
> 
> I'm close to a month in with my Mjolnir 2 and still in a state of enchantment. The first thing I do when I get home from work is turn on the Mjolnir to warm up (Gungnir MB stays on) and after dinner I spend the evening sneaking into my office to listen to music every chance I get.


 

 Thank you! I am basically retired so I am at home all the time. My Yggdrasil is on all the time. When I am home the Mjolnir 2 is on pretty much all day.
  
 Ho do you like the GE 5670 tubes? What other tubes have you tried?


----------



## Rodat

Happy to hear a similar positive feed back from you : TK16, Winders, Kayhiksi. Really enjoying this new gear. I just hope that the tube will behave, probably should stock up. Thanks


----------



## winders

I have to note, with the Yggdrasil/Mjolnir 2 setup using all XLR interconnects and headphone cables, this is the first time I would say that my headphones sound close to a speaker setup. Obviously there are still significant differences. But the sound is full and engaging with depth and a more realist soundstage than with the Lyr 2. Considering how great my speakers sound now, that is a big step up from where I was before.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

tk16 said:


> Heck yeah, just installed it, freaking breathtaking, though I am not using the stock tubes, got 1965 Siemens CCa grey shields in the MJ2 and 1958 Amperex 6922 Heerlen D-getters in my Lite Dac 68. First time running balanced. Nice you can change from balanced to SE with a flick of a switch. Using a HE-560 set of cans.




The synergy with HE-560 must be fantastic.


----------



## BillOhio

winders said:


> What other tubes have you tried?


 
  
 I've heard good things about early 1960's NOS Siemens CCa tubes


----------



## Eric510

Ugh. This Gungnir multibit backorder is killing me. My MJ2 is being held up as I placed an order for both a gumby and MJ2 at the same time.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

eric510 said:


> Ugh. This Gungnir multibit backorder is killing me. My MJ2 is being held up as I placed an order for both a gumby and MJ2 at the same time.




But all your cans will sound so good when they come!!


----------



## Eldair

Hey there. I have interesting offer on table but don´t know what to do. Friend is offering Audiolab M-DAC for 350€. Any thoughts about this?


----------



## winders

eldair said:


> Hey there. I have interesting offer on table but don´t know what to do. Friend is offering Audiolab M-DAC for 350€. Any thoughts about this?


 

 I'd save up for a multibit Schiit DAC instead.


----------



## kayhikski

winders said:


> Thank you! I am basically retired so I am at home all the time. My Yggdrasil is on all the time. When I am home the Mjolnir 2 is on pretty much all day.
> 
> Ho do you like the GE 5670 tubes? What other tubes have you tried?


 
 I like them a lot, thanks. They seem to be good value at $100/pair. Neutral signature. Pleasing midrange. Nice weight to the bass. Treble perhaps a bit too polite.
  
 So far I've only tried the LISST + Stock 6B7Z tubes and the iFi NOS 5670's are a step up from those but I'd like to hear what a really special pair of tubes sound like.
  
 I am currently researching other tube options but haven't been confident enough to take the plunge!


----------



## winders

Another thing I really like about the Mjolnir 2 versus the Lyr 2? When powering on, the Mjolnir 2 does not have a loud pop in the speaker/headphones when the muting relay changes state. Yay!!!


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> Another thing I really like about the Mjolnir 2 versus the Lyr 2? When powering on, the Mjolnir 2 does not have a loud pop in the speaker/headphones when the muting relay changes state. Yay!!!


 
 Don`t forget the awful rubber feet on the Lyr 2, think I would of paid extra to Shiit if they included proper feet on the Lyr 2, I just turned my amp off and on and it takes longer than the Lyr 2  but no loud pop or 1 channel coming in first before the other channel. Good stuff.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Don`t forget the awful rubber feet on the Lyr 2, think I would of paid extra to Shiit if they included proper feet on the Lyr 2, I just turned my amp off and on and it takes longer than the Lyr 2  but no loud pop or 1 channel coming in first before the other channel. Good stuff.


 

 My first experience with proper rubber feet from Schiit was with the Yggdrasil. I certainly am glad I get those same good feet with the Mjolnir 2! I think Freya has them and the Vidar amps hopefully have them too! So all the Schiit I buy moving forward should not have Schiity rubber feet!


----------



## winders

I do kind of miss the auto mute feature when you plug headphones in. I have to manually turn down or turn off my powered monitors now. Not a big deal. But, that does allow me to A/B monitors versus headphones easily!


----------



## BillOhio

I'll be running passive speakers (the same Bamboo Audioengine P4s you see behind Jude in his videos) off of my Gumby via RCA from the Gumby to my old school Yamaha receiver. I imagine that this will work and that I can simply power on and off the receiver when I don't want to hear the speakers. Actually, if I can run the receiver and the phones at the same time then I guess I just figured out how I can still hear my PC while not having to listen to new headphones during the burn in.
  


tk16 said:


> ... no ... 1 channel coming in first before the other channel.


 
  
 I still get this on my Gumby/Mjo2


----------



## JerryLeeds

I'm going to pick up my MJ2 tomorrow from the UPS Store ... I ordered it with the stock tubes ... what is the consensus on burn in time?

I'll be using the stock tubes for the burn in


----------



## BillOhio

jerryleeds said:


> I'm going to pick up my MJ2 tomorrow from the UPS Store ... I ordered it with the stock tubes ... what is the consensus on burn in time?
> 
> I'll be using the stock tubes for the burn in


 
  
 I bought my Gumby/Mjo2 used so they would have been burned in by the time i got them. They still didn't sond very good though when I first set them up, very hard edged and fatiguing sound. I got the suggestion to give the Gumby 48 hours to warm up (different than burn in) and after that 48 hours the sound really was on a whole 'nother level, very 'supple' smooth and rich. Apparently from a cold start it takes 2 days of use for the internals to all get to the same temp.
  
 For straight burn in on an Mjo2, I'm sure a lot of other people here will know.


----------



## Rodat

I have been using the stock tubes, I am not sure there is any burnt in required to be honest, it sounds great, who know, it may sounds even greater later, I have only had the Mjolnir2 for a couple of days really.


----------



## TK16

rodat said:


> I have been using the stock tubes, I am not sure there is any burnt in required to be honest, it sounds great, who know, it may sounds even greater later, I have only had the Mjolnir2 for a couple of days really.


 
 Excellent pics bro, here is a pic of my Lyr 2 with socket savers and Herbie`s tube dampers. Makes removing tubes much easier and shows much more of the tubes. The tube dampers help with microphonics and tightens up the bass a tad. The socket savers also help with microphonics.
 Here are the links to both.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/162287404567
 http://herbiesaudiolab.net/preamp.htm


----------



## rhull1973

Got a pair of these. Really like them so far. Open, extended treble. http://www.ebay.com/itm/401263982727?redirect=mobile


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I don't buy burn in. Neither set of my tubes changed at all over the last year that I have been able to hear. That said, stock is solidly ok. Ifi, reflektor and amperax are all a decided step up.


----------



## Carcajou

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I don't buy burn in. Neither set of my tubes changed at all over the last year that I have been able to hear. That said, stock is solidly ok. Ifi, reflektor and amperax are all a decided step up.




I do think that the first time you use a set of tubes that they need a couple of hours to properly set (apparently there's a coating on the conductors inside the tubes that needs to evaporate or something) but I don't believe either in these 100+ hrs burn-in times.


----------



## JerryLeeds

new MJ2 .... It is going on my 4th hour of playing ... NICE .. really
  
 I was afraid about the tubes being too close to the computer ....can't hear any issues


----------



## winders

jerryleeds said:


> new MJ2 .... It is going on my 4th hour of playing ... NICE .. really
> 
> I was afraid about the tubes being too close to the computer ....can't hear any issues


 

 I've had my MJ2 for three days now. It sounds fantastic! I am using Soviet era Reflektor tubes in it now. In a week or so I will switch to early 60's Siemens CCa tubes. My HD 650 headphones sound better than ever before! Getting the MJ2 was a great decision.


----------



## Rodat

tk16 said:


> Excellent pics bro, here is a pic of my Lyr 2 with socket savers and Herbie`s tube dampers. Makes removing tubes much easier and shows much more of the tubes. The tube dampers help with microphonics and tightens up the bass a tad. The socket savers also help with microphonics.
> Here are the links to both.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/162287404567
> http://herbiesaudiolab.net/preamp.htm


 
 Glad you have like the pics TK16, (I used a manual lens manucfatured like the good old lens in the 70s). Thanks for the suggestions, that is a great idea, socket savers should make it easier to change the tubes, as I also bought the LISST.
  
 I feel like comparing LISST versus Tubes, but I am scared of breaking the tubes while trying to remove them.
 Hopefully the socket savers should make this easier.
  
 Never heard about tube dampening before. Your picture shows well what it is.
  
 Certainly would like to see the tubes more (raised), that is part of the appeal, a reason why I also liked the look of the firefly woo audio wa7. The modular design of the Schiit products is still technically more appealing, I will probably get the gungnir multibit middle of april, not sure.


----------



## TK16

rodat said:


> Glad you have like the pics TK16, (I used a manual lens manucfatured like the good old lens in the 70s). Thanks for the suggestions, that is a great idea, socket savers should make it easier to change the tubes, as I also bought the LISST.
> 
> I feel like comparing LISST versus Tubes, but I am scared of breaking the tubes while trying to remove them.
> Hopefully the socket savers should make this easier.
> ...


 
 Tape on the top of the tube will make it easier to remove, latex gloves should work too. Gently pull up will rocking back and forth gently as well. With the socket savers installed you can use a chopstick to hold the SS in place and remove the tubes or LSST.


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> I've had my MJ2 for three days now. It sounds fantastic! I am using Soviet era Reflektor tubes in it now. In a week or so I will switch to early 60's Siemens CCa tubes. My HD 650 headphones sound better than ever before! Getting the MJ2 was a great decision.


 
 You will love those CCa in the MJ2. Seems the tubes have a bit more effect to the sound than the Lyr2.


----------



## Rodat

Could anyone who owns the Mjolnir2 confirm if you can hear that small 'klong' noise when powering it up, it lasts 3 seconds and then goes away completely ? Thanks


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> You will love those CCa in the MJ2. Seems the tubes have a bit more effect to the sound than the Lyr2.


 

 Cool! I a really enjoying the MJ2 over the Lyr 2!


----------



## Rodat

tk16 said:


> Tape on the top of the tube will make it easier to remove, latex gloves should work too. Gently pull up will rocking back and forth gently as well. With the socket savers installed you can use a chopstick to hold the SS in place and remove the tubes or LSST.


 

 Great, good to hear this, for now I will have a go with the latex gloves


----------



## BillOhio

rodat said:


> Could anyone who owns the Mjolnir2 confirm if you can hear that small 'klong' noise when powering it up, it lasts 3 seconds and then goes away completely ? Thanks



 


Mine does that, a litlle pop or click is what I get. I enjoy it, makes me feel audiophily...


----------



## DWbirdseye

winders said:


> jerryleeds said:
> 
> 
> > new MJ2 .... It is going on my 4th hour of playing ... NICE .. really
> ...




Look forward to impressions of the Siemans vs. the reflektors. - 934rsr?


----------



## winders

dwbirdseye said:


> Look forward to impressions of the Siemans vs. the reflektors. - 934rsr?


 

 Me too!
  
 Performance wise, my race car is most like a '74 911 RSR 3 liter. I have more and better rubber but less power.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> You will love those CCa in the MJ2. Seems the tubes have a bit more effect to the sound than the Lyr2.


 

 Great, you made me impatient!! I just rolled in a nice pair of early 60's Siemens CCa tubes into my MJ2......


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> Great, you made me impatient!! I just rolled in a nice pair of early 60's Siemens CCa tubes into my MJ2......


 
 Those are my absolute favorite tubes.


----------



## winders

winders said:


> Great, you made me impatient!! I just rolled in a nice pair of early 60's Siemens CCa tubes into my MJ2......


 
  


tk16 said:


> Those are my absolute favorite tubes.


 
  
 You know, the bass might be a bit better with the Reflektor tubes. But the mid range and upper ranges might be a bit better with the Siemens CCa tubes. It's so close that I am very happy with either tube type. I already know that the Telefunken CCa tubes I have are just as good as the Siemens CCa. I have 7 awesome matched pairs that will keep me happy for years to come!


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> You know, the bass might be a bit better with the Reflektor tubes. But the mid range and upper ranges might be a bit better with the Siemens CCa tubes. It's so close that I am very happy with either tube type. I already know that the Telefunken CCa tubes I have are just as good as the Siemens CCa. I have 7 awesome matched pairs that will keep me happy for years to come!


 
 Did not care much for the Russian tubes myself, big fan of the Germans. Hollands and UK tubes in that order.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Did not care much for the Russian tubes myself, big fan of the Germans. Hollands and UK tubes in that order.


 

 I am back to using the Reflectors in my MJ2 and they sound really good. Really, really good!


----------



## Thenazgul

winders said:


> I am back to using the Reflectors in my MJ2 and they sound really good. Really, really good!


 
 How do you switch between speakers and headphones now? Turning on/off speakers?


----------



## winders

thenazgul said:


> How do you switch between speakers and headphones now? Turning on/off speakers?


 

 I either turn the volume down on the front panel or switch them off. It less of a problem that I thought it would be. I typically leave the headphones plugged in all the time now as the volume level used on with the speakers is lower.


----------



## Thenazgul

winders said:


> I either turn the volume down on the front panel or switch them off. It less of a problem that I thought it would be. I typically leave the headphones plugged in all the time now as the volume level used on with the speakers is lower.


 
 Alright, thanks. And when you turn on/of your MJ2, you do put the volume of the MJ2 on zero and the ones of speakers too?
 Just to avoid a plop going to your speakers and backfires to the MJ2?


----------



## winders

thenazgul said:


> Alright, thanks. And when you turn on/of your MJ2, you do put the volume of the MJ2 on zero and the ones of speakers too?
> Just to avoid a plop going to your speakers and backfires to the MJ2?


 

 No. There really isn't any pop when the mute relay (or whatever it is) releases. This is very different than what I experienced with the Lyr 2. I had to turn the Lyr 2 volume all the way down.


----------



## Thenazgul

winders said:


> No. There really isn't any pop when the mute relay (or whatever it is) releases. This is very different than what I experienced with the Lyr 2. I had to turn the Lyr 2 volume all the way down.


 
 Interesting. Official response of Nick of Schiit.

*My question:·*
_Apart from that the Mjolnir-2 will not mute the pre-amp XLR-output when a XLR-headphone is plugged duo the circuitry it uses. So I will need a attenuator (like the Emotiva Control  freak or TC Electronic Level Pilot) in between. This to avoid blowing up the fuse when switching my Mjolnir 2 on/of when using it in combination with headphones.  _

*His response:*
_Yes, you’d need an attenuator or switch._


----------



## winders

thenazgul said:


> Interesting. Official response of Nick of Schiit.
> 
> *My question:·*
> _Apart from that the Mjolnir-2 will not mute the pre-amp XLR-output when a XLR-headphone is plugged duo the circuitry it uses. So I will need a attenuator (like the Emotiva Control  freak or TC Electronic Level Pilot) in between. This to avoid blowing up the fuse when switching my Mjolnir 2 on/of when using it in combination with headphones.  _
> ...


 

 I don't know what to tell you. My Mjolnir 2 makes a very quiet click 14 or so seconds after power on. That's with the headphones plugged in via XLR and with them not plugged. It doesn't seem to matter what the volume setting is. Also, the outputs are very quiet when turning off the Mjolnir 2. It's louder at full volume but it is still just a click. It's not loud at all.
  
 Maybe this is a new feature.


----------



## Thenazgul

winders said:


> I don't know what to tell you. My Mjolnir 2 makes a very quiet click 14 or so seconds after power on. That's with the headphones plugged in via XLR and with them not plugged. It doesn't seem to matter what the volume setting is. Also, the outputs are very quiet when turning off the Mjolnir 2. It's louder at full volume but it is still just a click. It's not loud at all.
> 
> Maybe this is a new feature.


 
 Oh, that sounds good. Maybe they changed something internally?


----------



## TK16

Been listening to my HE-500`s the last few days, more than in the last year with my Lyr 2. It is like a veil has been lifted. They sound so much better now with the MJ2. Listened to the HE-560 briefly and they sounded great. Need to try the HD 700`s with this amp next.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Been listening to my HE-500`s the last few days, more than in the last year with my Lyr 2. It is like a veil has been lifted. They sound so much better now with the MJ2. Listened to the HE-560 briefly and they sounded great. Need to try the HD 700`s with this amp next.


 

 All with XLR cables?


----------



## TK16

Yeah, I got all balanced cables.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

tk16 said:


> Been listening to my HE-500`s the last few days, more than in the last year with my Lyr 2. It is like a veil has been lifted. They sound so much better now with the MJ2. Listened to the HE-560 briefly and they sounded great. Need to try the HD 700`s with this amp next.




Even Jason's considerable magic cannot save hd700.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> Yeah, I got all balanced cables.


 

 Is your MJ2 quiet like mine when it powers on and goes active?


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> Is your MJ2 quiet like mine when it powers on and goes active?


 
 Yep it`s quiet and I just put in my HD700`s, with the Siemens E188CC in my dac and those 1958 Amperex 6922 Heerlen d-getters in the  MJ2. Wow again. The weight of the HE-500 was starting to bother me.


----------



## winders

Maybe Thenazgul should contact Nick at Schiit Audio and see if they made a change to the MJ2 board recently that changes the power on behavior.
  
 Thenazgul?


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> Maybe Thenazgul should contact Nick at Schiit Audio and see if they made a change to the MJ2 board recently that changes the power on behavior.
> 
> Thenazgul?


 
 I would, asking can`t hurt.


----------



## Rodat

thenazgul said:


> How do you switch between speakers and headphones now? Turning on/off speakers?


 
 Mine does that click too, I have read from Schiit's litterature that this click is a built-in protection system, the sound won't get through the amp until this unlocks as far I can recall. If you are still in doubt, post them a message on their tech forum forum and they should be able to quickly confirm this.


----------



## BillOhio

I would miss the click if I stopped having it


----------



## TK16

I was wrong, I get the click too.


----------



## winders

tk16 said:


> I was wrong, I get the click too.


 

 I said I get the click...it is just quiet no matter what the volume level and it could not hurt the speakers or headphones.
  
 Based on what Thenazgul says, he needs to unplug headphones and turn down the volume to prevent damage when MJ2 is powered on. I don't have any of that.....


----------



## Naugrim

I ordered a Mjolnir On Jan 9th and still haven't received it. Anyone else dealing with a similar issue?


----------



## winders

naugrim said:


> I ordered a Mjolnir On Jan 9th and still haven't received it. Anyone else dealing with a similar issue?


 

 Have you called or email Schiit about this? I ordered mine on March 20th and received it last week.


----------



## Thenazgul

rodat said:


> Mine does that click too, I have read from Schiit's litterature that this click is a built-in protection system, the sound won't get through the amp until this unlocks as far I can recall. If you are still in doubt, post them a message on their tech forum forum and they should be able to quickly confirm this.


 
 Yes, but the built-in protection should not kick in I think.

 It is this that concerns me:

 Quoted : Rmoody
_It's not controlling the volume that is the issue for me. It's when you turn the mj2 on, it sends a pop to the monitors when the relays close. One time this resulted in a $75 blown fuse as I had to return the mj2 to Schiit for repair. I have a control freak between the mj2 and my monitors now and always remember to turn the volume down on the mj2 and the control freak when I power off the mj2._


----------



## Naugrim

winders said:


> Have you called or email Schiit about this? I ordered mine on March 20th and received it last week.


 
 I just emailed them. I ordered through a third party. I'll likely just cancel and then order direct. Thanks!


----------



## Thenazgul

winders said:


> I said I get the click...it is just quiet no matter what the volume level and it could not hurt the speakers or headphones.
> 
> Based on what Thenazgul says, he needs to unplug headphones and turn down the volume to prevent damage when MJ2 is powered on. I don't have any of that.....


 
 I give you some scenario's.

 1. you only have your speakers on. It is advised to have the volume down to zero when turning on or off the Mjolnir 2. Or turn on first the Mjolnir 2 and afterwards the speakers.
 2. Then when you want to listen to your headphones. Turn volume down to zero and power-off your studio-monitors(speakers). Either by power-buttons on the studio-monitors(speakers) or having a power-switch. 
 3. If you want to leave your speakers on and headphones connected. It does require a XLR attenuator/switch in between of the speakers and pre-amp. Then you turn down the volume of the XLR-attenuator/switch to zero.
  
 I don't need to unplug the headphones. But I need to turn down the volume down when either turning on/of the Mjolnir 2. Just to avoid what rmoody had :

_It's not controlling the volume that is the issue for me. It's when you turn the mj2 on, it sends a pop to the monitors when the relays close. One time this resulted in a $75 blown fuse as I had to return the mj2 to Schiit for repair. I have a control freak between the mj2 and my monitors now and always remember to turn the volume down on the mj2 and the control freak when I power off the mj2._


----------



## winders

Thenazgul,
  
 Do you get a quiet click or a loud pop if you leave the powered monitors on with the volume maxed out on the monitors and the volume say at 11 o'clock on the MJ2?


----------



## winders

naugrim said:


> I just emailed them. I ordered through a third party. I'll likely just cancel and then order direct. Thanks!


 

 Always buy direct if you can! Are you in the U.S.A.?


----------



## Naugrim

winders said:


> Always buy direct if you can! Are you in the U.S.A.?


 
 Yeah, I don't want to throw anyone under the bus, but I ordered through someone else to show appreciation for their personal attention.


----------



## Thenazgul

winders said:


> Thenazgul,
> 
> Do you get a quiet click or a loud pop if you leave the powered monitors on with the volume maxed out on the monitors and the volume say at 11 o'clock on the MJ2?


 
 I don't know yet. I expect my MJ2 and Yggdrasil to be shipped about 7th of April. I just have been reading a lot about this issue regarding the Mjolnir-2/Ragnarok not muting the preamp output when headphones are plugged in. And then I did read the post of Rmoody. Afterwards I did contact Nick from Schiit to verify this and he says that it is indeed advised to put a XRL Switch/Attenuator in between. 

 Then I've been looking to many XLR Passive Switch/Attenuators but there are not many choices. They are either really cheap or very expensive. Also it is rather tricky since some of the Audio-Interfaces only accept Line-in Level input (from like a Mixer) and could not handle a pre-amp level input.

*Cheap/Rather noisy Passive Volume Controller solutions:*
 - Emotiva Control Freak (XLR variant)
 - TC Electronic Level Pilot (this one is always XLR)

*Expensive solutions / High quality:*
 - Goldpoint SA1X. It should work. I did e-mail that company with a few questions. No response yet.
 - SPL 2Control. It does work. I am mailing a bit with that company. Only thing concerns me about this one is that it is not completely passive. And that it might require a monitor-calibration with a tool. Not sure how much the monitor-calibration is really needed.

 The one that doesnt work :
 Drawmer Mc2.1. This one accepts only line-in level of Mixer. Can't handle the power of a pre-amp (so will damage the device). Yesterday received a e-mail back with that information. 

*Adding a device with extra cables in the chain is always a thing. It is possible to let it work without a Attenuator/Switch. But then these scenario's kick in. *
_1. you only have your speakers on. It is advised to have the volume down to zero when turning on or off the Mjolnir 2.
     Or turn on first the Mjolnir 2 (volume to zero) and afterwards the speakers.
 2. Then when you want to listen to your headphones. Turn volume down to zero and power-off your studio-monitors(speakers). Either by power-buttons on the studio-monitors(speakers) or having a power-switch. 
 3. If you want to leave your speakers on and headphones connected. It does require a XLR attenuator/switch in between of the speakers and pre-amp. Then you turn down the volume of the XLR-attenuator/switch to zero. It will block output to the speakers. _


----------



## winders

We are talking about different things.
  
 There is no noise issue when the MJ2 powers on. At least not for me. There is a quiet click, not a pop, and it is not loud even with the MJ2 volume all the way up. This is true for both headphones and the powered monitors at max volume. I have no idea what rmoody is referring to in his text. I cannot see how this could cause the MJ2 to blow a fuse.
  
 The issue is that you are going to have is there is no easy way to mute your speakers when you are using your headphones. This is an issue because the MJ2 does not mute the pre-amp outputs when headphones are in use. I am lucky because my powered monitors have a volume control and power switch on one of the monitors that I can easily reach.
  
 Instead of an XLR passive switch or attenuator, why not get a switch to power the speakers on and off as needed?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I still haven't used my Klipsch computer speakers with the MJ2 and Bimby, though I should. I keep them in my classroom (they were $175 at Best Buy—laughably cheap compared to my headphones at home, though with a great sound despite that). I should do this one of these summers.


----------



## mrspeakers

Just a quick FYI we have one MJ2 with tubes in stock.  I know they've been a bit scarce...


----------



## Rodat

mrspeakers said:


> Just a quick FYI we have one MJ2 with tubes in stock.  I know they've been a bit scarce...


 

 Hi mrspeakers, thanks for your recommendations for the valve RCA 6BQ7A.
  
 First, I like the retro look of that little red box that survived time. I only bought a pair for testing.
 I am very very happy. I noticed the following:
  
 - No more 'blong' sounds on startup.
 - The amplifier runs less hot
 - Less volume from the amplifier
  
 Those subjective obervations make me thing that this draws less power, hence it is likely that the life of the tube will last longer.
  
 It sounds like there is less dynamic range, so this can be perceived as warmer.
  
 Thanks again for your help.


----------



## TomsTechGaming

I don't know how you guys convinced me but I'm now planning to buy the MJ2, I planned for a Valhalla 2 than a Lyr 2 and now this... My wallet seriously hates you XD
 Funny times coming up with the HD800 and my other HPs, thanks (^__^)


----------



## OG10

Have any of you moved over from the Val 2 to MJ2 ? 
  
 Any notable improvements to note?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

og10 said:


> Have any of you moved over from the Val 2 to MJ2 ?
> 
> Any notable improvements to note?


 

 I went from Val1 to MJ2. Val 1 is a really capable machine. i love it. MJ2 will give you a degree more control (depending much on the tubes, of course) and naturally many times the power, though this is hardly something your HD600 requires.


----------



## Delayeed

Been using a Chord Mojo for a time now and I'm wanting for more warmth and even less fatigue... Would adding the MJ2 accomplish this using Mojo as the DAC? Again in a time and place to consider getting the MJ2 for my Ether Cs...


----------



## Eldair

In europe site they announced that shipping start 15.4. I can´t wait that long... i´ll be dead when it arrives i´m so exited about it.


----------



## BillOhio

eldair said:


> In europe site they announced that shipping start 15.4. I can´t wait that long... i´ll be dead when it arrives i´m so exited about it.


 
 Pairing with a Gungnir Multibit?


----------



## JerryLeeds

I'm enjoying the Schiit pairing greatly


----------



## NightFlight

Any cheaper from the Euro site? Still more expensive that side of the world.


----------



## TK16

eldair said:


> In europe site they announced that shipping start 15.4. I can´t wait that long... i´ll be dead when it arrives i´m so exited about it.


 
 I ordered mine March 15th, the estimated shipping went up to April 7 after earlier estimates, got mine March 30. May come quicker than you expect.


----------



## Eldair

billohio said:


> Pairing with a Gungnir Multibit?


 
 I actually think of pairing with Oppo Sonica DAC. Atleast i´m gonna try it . Multibits are out of stock in eu and no idea when more comes.
 Mjolnir 2 1010€ in Eu with tubes and lisst. They raise prizes bit.


----------



## Hangyu Xu

I just moved from Val 2t o MJ2. 
 I used MAC/WM1A => Mojo=> Val2 => LCD-2. Line out of Mojo, low gain of val2. I love the sound. I guess val2 is totally a tube amp so the sound is typical ''tube'' . Sounds clear, soft,  flavor, soundstage is good but I won't say really big. The setup of wm1a and val2's output power is actually weak even use high gain. Then I just put mojo between them. Surprise comes out is I can hear more details about singer's sound. 
 Now I sold val2 and mojo. wm1a => MJ2 with tube =>LCD-2. Just got MJ2 today. I listened 3 hours. Compared to Val2, I feel like Bass is gone for some songs. Treble is powerful but sometimes too aggressive a bit. ( I guess because I'm using high gain since I lost part of Mojo) Midrange is better, it sounds cohesive and stable especially man sound. Besides, it has more quite background and less noise. I tried switch tube to LISST. Actually, I'm more  like a ''tube'' fan hence LISST really doen not  attract me. Lisst puts the sound after all of these just sounds really like using 3.5mm output from wm1a  by an earphone. I think it really sounds like SONY signature. One more thing is maybe this is hybrid amp so it makes less heat than Val2 no matter using tube or LISST. 
 Now I'm  waiting for my NOS tubes  delivery  and Plusound upgrade cable for lcd-2 with male 4-pin balanced xlr jack. I also want get my mojo back to be  part of this set up or just get another DAC to replace wm1a. I wanna try different combination to see if it can pleasure me more than old setup with Val2. 
 And anyone has questions or reviews about my setup no matter good or bad just please let me know


----------



## winders

Just wait until you get the XLR cable and better tubes than stock. ...then the headphones will wake up!


----------



## BillOhio

eldair said:


> I actually think of pairing with Oppo Sonica DAC. Atleast i´m gonna try it . Multibits are out of stock in eu and no idea when more comes.
> Mjolnir 2 1010€ in Eu with tubes and lisst. They raise prizes bit.


 
  
  
 Ah, yeah. I think I remember you asking about the multibit Gungnir but can see why you would use an alternative.


----------



## Eldair

I´m still interest of Gungnir but as i say no stock except delta-sigma. I have think that as well but many have said that don´t bother take multibit instead.
 Lol... too many options to think. And with these Schiit stuff i completely trust what people have said cause i don´t have place to test those.


----------



## JerryLeeds

I moved my Gungnir MB from my living home theater to my computer/office to use with my MJ2 ... love it

Now I want to get a new DAC to replace the spot in the living room. Torn between getting another Gungnir MB or upgrading to the Yggdrasil? 

Also want to get rid of my Mac mini I'm using as a media streamer ... looking at the simaudio moon neo mind ... or even one of the other moon neo products that are both DAC and media streamer


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

eldair said:


> I´m still interest of Gungnir but as i say no stock except delta-sigma. I have think that as well but many have said that don´t bother take multibit instead.
> Lol... too many options to think. And with these Schiit stuff i completely trust what people have said cause i don´t have place to test those.




Come to LA! Pay the Schiitr a visit!


----------



## Naugrim

Out with the old and in with the new! Listened to them with stock tubes right out the gate, no warm-up. Impression: power, separation, and clarity. Really shows how much headroom these Ether Flows have. Best of all I smiled immediately.


----------



## NightFlight

Sorry, but whenever I look at a Mjolnir I just see a goofy looking face. Even worse when it's stacked with Gungnir. Lol


----------



## neoluddite

You might enjoy playing about with different tubes as I am doing.  My thoughts on what I hear in different tubes is located at:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/839972/schiit-mjolnir2-tube-rolling-thread


----------



## TK16

naugrim said:


> Out with the old and in with the new! Listened to them with stock tubes right out the gate, no warm-up. Impression: power, separation, and clarity. Really shows how much headroom these Ether Flows have. Best of all I smiled immediately.


 
 Wait until you find your personal holy grail tubes with this amp. Excellent experience.


----------



## Naugrim

nightflight said:


> Sorry, but whenever I look at a Mjolnir I just see a goofy looking face. Even worse when it's stacked with Gungnir. Lol


 
 LOL I don't see it... I'm looking and looking...


----------



## Naugrim

neoluddite said:


> You might enjoy playing about with different tubes as I am doing.  My thoughts on what I hear in different tubes is located at:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/839972/schiit-mjolnir2-tube-rolling-thread


 
 I appreciate it! I'll follow soon behind.


----------



## NightFlight

Well, apparently my wife thinks (knows) I'm nuts.
  
 It even has a big mouth mid-stack. The little pink marks under the 'nose' is the mustache.


----------



## Rowethren

I think your wife might be right lol...


----------



## Naugrim

It's 2:30 AM and I'm still listening.  Adding the Mjolnir to the Gumby was a huge deal coming from the Asgard 2.  I didn't expect it.  It's kind of like drinking tasty but simple whiskey (Blantons or Basil Hayden) and then trying some complex Japanese whiskey or a Scotch.  I'm fascinated by this sound....  I'm listening to Ólafur Arnalds, "Island Songs" and experiencing all of the strings mixed with that bass again for the first time.  Before getting this amp, I thought I was going to have to buy a Grados or a HD800 to get the sound I wanted out of the strings - the Ether Flow seemed a bit soft to me.  But now with these tubes, I'm seeing I can get all sorts of texture out of them.  I'm really glad I made this purchase.  I'm transfixed by sound and how it does or does not impact me.  Right now I'm overwhelmed by the richness, the details, the depth... and I don't even think this is the best recorded music. 

 My brother in law came by and asked me if tubes changed the sound... and I said, well, yes.  As I listen I'm reminded that for me, it's not about replicating the "real thing" - heck I don't go to concerts more than once every few years. I'm trying to create an experience I've never had before - and touch something primal, something that I'll never be able to communicate to anyone.  And it's not just something novel, it's something beyond what I thought I could experience. OK,  it's late and I should probably go to sleep.  Just feeling thankful for moments like this - moments of grace.
  
 P.S. Imagine what I'll post when I get some real tubes? 
  
 Update: It's 5AM and I have plans for tomorrow (er..today), but it keeps sounding better and better.


----------



## neoluddite

Try a Hakushu 18 (stony and flinty) or a Taketsura 21 (mellow, sweet and spicy)


----------



## Naugrim

neoluddite said:


> Try a Hakushu 18 (stony and flinty) or a Taketsura 21 (mellow, sweet and spicy)


 
 lol, you go too large for me brother!


----------



## JerryLeeds

Which DAC is a more enjoyable pairing with the MJ2?
Gumby or Yggdrasil? Or something else?


----------



## thyname

jerryleeds said:


> Which DAC is a more enjoyable pairing with the MJ2?
> Gumby or Yggdrasil? Or something else?




You can't go wrong with either one of those two.

I am using my MJ2 with Holo Spring L3 Kitsune edition, and this setup is definitely my "endgame " setup. The missing link for me is a Singxer SU-1, which is coming next week.

Rolling tubes I discovered is fun and joy!


----------



## winders

jerryleeds said:


> Which DAC is a more enjoyable pairing with the MJ2?
> Gumby or Yggdrasil? Or something else?


 

 Jason Stoddard, co-founder of Schiit Audio, has the Gumby/MJ2 combo on his desk. I am really liking the Yggy/MJ2 combo at my desk!


----------



## tjl5709

winders said:


> Jason Stoddard, co-founder of Schiit Audio, has the Gumby/MJ2 combo on his desk. I am really liking the Yggy/MJ2 combo at my desk!


 





  
 Me too...................


----------



## AverageGuyNC

I would love to hear a comparison between mj2 and the IFI iCAN pro. It can do SS, tube, or I think it's a combo of both. But no tube rolling. I may get one if I find one used to compare. If anyone happened to try both I would love to hear their impressions!

I was considering the mj2 But found a good deal on the IFI pro so will try it for now


----------



## danieldpagan

naugrim said:


> Out with the old and in with the new! Listened to them with stock tubes right out the gate, no warm-up. Impression: power, separation, and clarity. Really shows how much headroom these Ether Flows have. Best of all I smiled immediately.


 
  
  
 Oh man this makes me very hopeful. Im trying to figure out what end game rig I want for my Ether Flows. How is it now 3 days later? How does it change the Ethers with stock tubes?


----------



## Naugrim

danieldpagan said:


> Oh man this makes me very hopeful. Im trying to figure out what end game rig I want for my Ether Flows. How is it now 3 days later? How does it change the Ethers with stock tubes?


 
 I think I mentioned they felt too soft for me with the Asgard 2 - adding the Mjolnir sharpened them up - but also brought a bigger sense of presence - maybe it's the additional power, I don't know..they just hum, in a good way.  They feel more textured, if that makes sense. Also, the level of detail has definitely increased...as well as separation. I just broke my clamps so I can't wear it until I get the replacement (should be here in a few days). Word of advice, don't over tighten, you'll strip the plastic sliders.


----------



## Charente

I can get the Sennheiser XLR cable for HD-650 at a reasonable price here in France. From the photograph, the plug seems to have a thick looking metal sleeve... 
  

  
  
 ..can anyone confirm that this Sennheiser XLR plug fits the MJ2 XLR-Out socket OK ?


----------



## rhenom

charente said:


> I can get the Sennheiser XLR cable for HD-650 at a reasonable price here in France. From the photograph, the plug seems to have a thick looking metal sleeve...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I don't have that specific cable or even a Mjolnir 2, but as far as I know all 4 pin XLR cables are cross compatible, you should have no problems.


----------



## winders

XLR is a standard.......XLR cables fit XLR ports.


----------



## Charente

@winders & @rhenom...thank-you. I was being cautious as Sennheiser say on their website these cables are 'optimised' for their amps.
  
 EDIT: I also thought there were different sizes of XLR plugs...maybe I'm wrong.


----------



## rhenom

charente said:


> @winders & @rhenom...thank-you. I was being cautious as Sennheiser say on their website these cables are 'optimised' for their amps.


 
 I'm sure they mean the sound, not the connectors. No doubt Sennheiser is interested in selling people their $2,000 amp.


----------



## tjl5709

charente said:


> @winders & @rhenom...thank-you. I was being cautious as Sennheiser say on their website these cables are 'optimised' for their amps.
> 
> EDIT: I also thought there were different sizes of XLR plugs...maybe I'm wrong.


 
 There are 3 prongs and 4 prongs. The headphone cable you show is a 4 prong, and it is the same 4 prong that is on the end of my HD800s cable. It fits the MJ2.
  
 My question is have you searched other options on an HD650 balanced cable?
  
 You might find one that is more "cost" competitive. You are paying a premium for that logo on that cable which might not be contributing to better sound compared to an alternative.
  
 Just saying..........


----------



## Charente

tjl5709 said:


> ...
> My question is have you searched other options on an HD650 balanced cable?
> 
> You might find one that is more "cost" competitive. You are paying a premium for that logo on that cable which might not be contributing to better sound compared to an alternative.
> ...


 
  
 Thank-you...the Senn cable was used but isn't available anymore....so I'm now looking at FORZA Audioworks, suggested by a Head-Fi member on another thread.


----------



## Eldair

Hey, can you recommend better tubes (than stock) around 100€ what are good for listening rock and metal. My headphones are HD 600 if that matters. My Mjo2 will arrive after easter.
 I also see in eu site that there is Gungnirs coming in stock... 1 for me please.


----------



## tjl5709

eldair said:


> Hey, can you recommend better tubes (than stock) around 100€ what are good for listening rock and metal. My headphones are HD 600 if that matters. My Mjo2 will arrive after easter.
> I also see in eu site that there is Gungnirs coming in stock... 1 for me please.


 
  
 Search out the Lyr tube rollers. What works there, works here. I moved from Lyr to MJ2 for that very reason.
  
 Amperex orange globes and bugle boys do pretty well. Moving up, the 7308's are nice. I ended up going all-in with E188's and CCa's.
  
 Russiam tunes do well too.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I think HD650 would do better at rock. Certainly LCD-2 would.


----------



## Rowethren

eldair said:


> Hey, can you recommend better tubes (than stock) around 100€ what are good for listening rock and metal. My headphones are HD 600 if that matters. My Mjo2 will arrive after easter.
> I also see in eu site that there is Gungnirs coming in stock... 1 for me please.


 
  
 Can't go wrong with the iFi NOS 6922 IMO. Recommended by me and several other people here.


----------



## FLTWS

rowethren said:


> Can't go wrong with the iFi NOS 6922 IMO. Recommended by me and several other people here.


 
  
 Very good considering $100.00 US for a matched pair.


----------



## Rowethren

fltws said:


> Very good considering $100.00 US for a matched pair.


 
  
 Indeed, even Mike recommends the 5670 which is what the iFis are based on.


----------



## FLTWS

Having them come with an integrated adapter is nice too.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'm considering upgrading my orange globes but I'm also considering going straight for the Rag...decisions decisions.


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I'm considering upgrading my orange globes but I'm also considering going straight for the Rag...decisions decisions.


 

 Not sure how much the oranges will set you back, but they will only keep you away from the Rag longer than you want to be.
 You know you want one. LOL.
  
 The Ragnir combo is a great way to have your cake and eat it too!


----------



## Charente

Spotted this announcement for the new Focal Shape active monitors...I wonder if I should consider them for the MJ2 which is on its way to me.
  
 http://www.soundonsound.com/news/musikmesse-focal-shape-monitors-use-passive-radiators


----------



## Sir Alamon

charente said:


> Spotted this announcement for the new Focal Shape active monitors...I wonder if I should consider them for the MJ2 which is on its way to me.
> 
> http://www.soundonsound.com/news/musikmesse-focal-shape-monitors-use-passive-radiators


 

 mmhmhmm they seem nice


----------



## plums

westermac said:


> Does anyone else's Mjolnir 2 make occasional creaking/popping (I mean the unit itself, not in the audio chain). If I push town on the top of the unit it will make a similar clicking sound, so I'm pretty sure it's just a seam that moves slightly with the expansion/contraction of warmup and cooldown. Drove me crazy trying to pinpoint it for awhile, now it doesn't bother me. Just curious.


 

 This just started happening to mine too, only after turn off. It's a little irritating. I guessed the same cause, but I was concerned that it could be coming from internal electrical components, though it happens even if unplugged.
  
 Anymore people noticing this? How's your mojo running currently @westermac?


----------



## westermac

plums said:


> This just started happening to mine too, only after turn off. It's a little irritating. I guessed the same cause, but I was concerned that it could be coming from internal electrical components, though it happens even if unplugged.
> 
> Anymore people noticing this? How's your mojo running currently @westermac?


 
  
 I actually recently parted with my Mjolnir 2 as I found it overkill for my LCD-X, which I found pretty much as enjoyable from the headphone output of my audio interface (blasphemy, I know). Were I spending most of my time with the HD800 I definitely would have kept it, however.
  
 I never had a single issue with it, nor has the current owner to the best of my knowledge. I am confident that the noise was a result of a seam/joint/in the chassis creaking as it warmed or cooled. I wouldn't worry about it unless you find it a huge distraction, just a small quirk in a fantastic amp


----------



## Thenazgul

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I'm considering upgrading my orange globes but I'm also considering going straight for the Rag...decisions decisions.


 
 To be honest. I think the Yggdrasil would be a better option for you. You would gain more from that decision.


----------



## tjl5709

thenazgul said:


> To be honest. I think the Yggdrasil would be a better option for you. You would gain more from that decision.


 
  
 Agreed.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Just got an email about my ordered Yggdrasil ... it will be another two weeks or if I replied they had a black one available to send instead... 

I'll stick with the silver to match what I have now plus the black might tend to absorb a bit more heat and show more dust.

I do not think I'll regret the decision much


----------



## Delayeed

Just got mine from a great Head-Fi user. Gotta say it's very good sounding from the Mojo as a DAC! With Ether Cs the soundstage got noticeably bigger surpassing my HD600.
 Heard few new sounds I haven't heard before in a couple of tracks that I've listened to countless times with the same / even louder volumes. Stock tubes sound kind of slow and midrangy.

 I like the Siemens E88CCs though. Kind of a V shaped signature and some sounds sound like they are coming from behind you because the imaging and layering is just so good.
 This is all single-ended but a balanced cable is coming... Can't wait for even more improvement )

 To add: I didn't like the HD600s from the MJ2 anymore than just off the Mojo tbh...
 The treble/midrange peak is just annoying so will probly sell them as I really have no use for them anymore.


----------



## Argo Duck

No dust on my black yggy. No cobwebs either


----------



## Naugrim

jerryleeds said:


> Just got an email about my ordered Yggdrasil ... it will be another two weeks or if I replied they had a black one available to send instead...
> 
> I'll stick with the silver to match what I have now plus the black might tend to absorb a bit more heat and show more dust.
> 
> I do not think I'll regret the decision much


 
 much


----------



## TK16

delayeed said:


> Just got mine from a great Head-Fi user. Gotta say it's very good sounding from the Mojo as a DAC! With Ether Cs the soundstage got noticeably bigger surpassing my HD600.
> Heard few new sounds I haven't heard before in a couple of tracks that I've listened to countless times with the same / even louder volumes. Stock tubes sound kind of slow and midrangy.
> 
> I like the Siemens E88CCs though. Kind of a V shaped signature and some sounds sound like they are coming from behind you because the imaging and layering is just so good.
> ...


 
 It`s good your auditioning SE now, you will hear the improvements with balanced vs SE. I have not tried SE yet.


----------



## Thenazgul

Just a quick question. The Preamp Balanced XLR outs are Analog only right?  (NOT AES DIGITAL).


----------



## winders

thenazgul said:


> Just a quick question. The Preamp Balanced XLR outs are Analog only right?  (NOT AES DIGITAL).


 

 Digital ends at the input of Yggdrasil......


----------



## Thenazgul

winders said:


> Digital ends at the input of Yggdrasil......


 
 That's what I thought. The very expensive amps sometimes have AES XLR out (which is backwards compatible to analog, same with the cables. The speakers I plan to buy, have both inputs. Analog XLR and Digital XLR/AES.  Thank you for verifying it. Guess I could use the same type of Analog interconnects for the speakers as between dac and amp then : http://www.qed.co.uk/analogue/xlr/reference-xlr-40-analogue.htm . It creates some unity


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

thenazgul said:


> To be honest. I think the Yggdrasil would be a better option for you. You would gain more from that decision.


 

 That's the next dac purchase, but it's difficult to justify 2300 plus tax plus shipping at the moment—Bimby is a much higher percentage of the Yggy experience than, say HD800 is of the K1000—they're totally different. My newest toy (vintage amp) should arrive this week...about half the price of Rag after taxes and shipping. We'll see how it plays with K1000 and HE-6; it's single-ended (1/4 inch), and I need to get a speaker taps to 4 pin XLR cable.


----------



## Thenazgul

bosiemoncrieff said:


> That's the next dac purchase, but it's difficult to justify 2300 plus tax plus shipping at the moment—Bimby is a much higher percentage of the Yggy experience than, say HD800 is of the K1000—they're totally different. My newest toy (vintage amp) should arrive this week...about half the price of Rag after taxes and shipping. We'll see how it plays with K1000 and HE-6; it's single-ended (1/4 inch), and I need to get a speaker taps to 4 pin XLR cable.


 
 He was considering buying a Ragnarok as upgrade for his MJ2. While a upgrade for his Bimby to the Yggdrasil would result in much better sound.


----------



## Delayeed

Is there same kind of benefit running studio monitors from balanced out rather than SE, like the headphone section? In other words are the SE pre outs gimped the same way the SE headphone outs are?


----------



## Mr Rick

delayeed said:


> Is there same kind of benefit running studio monitors from balanced out rather than SE, like the headphone section? In other words are the SE pre outs gimped the same way the SE headphone outs are?


 
 Define the word gimped please.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

thenazgul said:


> He was considering buying a Ragnarok as upgrade for his MJ2. While a upgrade for his Bimby to the Yggdrasil would result in much better sound.




From hd800, I believe you. But for power starved he6/k1000? I'm not so sure. I'll get back to you.


----------



## Delayeed

mr rick said:


> Define the word gimped please.


 
 Idk but I've a lot of people have said that the balanced out sounds way better than SE on the Mjolnir 2.


----------



## Argo Duck

Schiit don't "gimp" any parts of their circuits, they have stated. On the contrary, Jason has gone to a lot of trouble to make SE perform as well as balanced from what I recall of his chapters about their designs. I would like to see where it's been _shown_ the SE headphone outs are 'gimped'???

There are different opinions about balanced versus SE, though most favor balanced it is true. Caution is needed though - if people don't level match the outputs in reaching their conclusions, louder sounds better in most scenarios. The louder output is the balanced one...


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Yeah, by something like 4x


----------



## neoluddite

bosiemoncrieff said:


> From hd800, I believe you. But for power starved he6/k1000? I'm not so sure. I'll get back to you.




Not having any trouble at all with the MJ2 driving version 1of the Hifiman HE-1000's even when amp is in " low output mode"


----------



## bosiemoncrieff (Apr 27, 2017)

I mean I drove HE1k out of my phone at CanJam SoCal. I'm not sure that's relevant to the power requirements of HE-6 and K1K.

EDIT: Just received my Panache. It's certainly better at driving HE-6 than Mjolnir 2, tighter, richer sound. However, it's too loud for HD800/600/K3003i. There's a loud buzzing. MJ2 is effortlessly quiet. Kudos Jason! Much better all-rounder amp. (As I assume Rag is as well, but would've been 2x the price...)


----------



## Gimpinchair

Thenazgul said:


> He was considering buying a Ragnarok as upgrade for his MJ2. While a upgrade for his Bimby to the Yggdrasil would result in much better sound.



Have you ever run your Lyr 2 from your  Gungnir? I am looking to purchase the Gungnir, but I wonder if the Mjolnir 2 is overkill for my HE -400i & my Nightowl. I currently don't have any balanced cables, however, I do have my heart set on a Vidar so the balanced aspect works here. Or would you think the BifrostMB/Lyr2 is close enough  sonically to the Gungnir/Lyr2?


----------



## Thenazgul

Gimpinchair said:


> Have you ever run your Lyr 2 from your  Gungnir? I am looking to purchase the Gungnir, but I wonder if the Mjolnir 2 is overkill for my HE -400i & my Nightowl. I currently don't have any balanced cables, however, I do have my heart set on a Vidar so the balanced aspect works here. Or would you think the BifrostMB/Lyr2 is close enough  sonically to the Gungnir/Lyr2?



No, I have a Yggdrasil not a Gungnir. Yet the Gungnir Multibit and Yggdrasil share some similarities in the used circuit. The BifrostMB is better than the regular Gungnir. The GungnirMB is better than the BifrostMB. A Mjolnir 2 is better only when used in Balanced mode. The Lyr-2 or Valhalla-2 have more power on the regular sE-connection. If you plan to go balanced, then the Mjolnir 2/Gungnir would be better. Yet I don't find it worth to pay for the regular Gungnir-Delta Sigma. If you go for a Schiit dac, go for a multibit variant.


----------



## Delayeed

Oh my god... Running HD600 from the MJ2 at around 8 o' clock volume in high gain and its already very loud with EDM. 9 starts to physically hurt. Not even running balanced yet...

This amp is RIDICULOUS. Will write a review once my balanced cable arrives


----------



## Charente

Delayeed said:


> Oh my god... Running HD600 from the MJ2 at around 8 o' clock volume in high gain and its already very loud with EDM. 9 starts to physically hurt. Not even running balanced yet...
> 
> This amp is RIDICULOUS. Will write a review once my balanced cable arrives



I agree...Had my MJ2 for a couple of weeks now...balanced from GMB and I listen to my HD-650 on LOW gain at 9-10 o'clock... waiting for a Forza XLR cable for the headphones...even in SE this is a superb set-up.


----------



## Delayeed

Charente said:


> I agree...Had my MJ2 for a couple of weeks now...balanced from GMB and I listen to my HD-650 on LOW gain at 9-10 o'clock... waiting for a Forza XLR cable for the headphones...even in SE this is a superb set-up.



Oh nice you already have the Gumby too. You will love the fully balanced combo, no doubt.
I went with FAW too. Should arrive next week.


----------



## Charente

Delayeed said:


> Oh nice you already have the Gumby too. You will love the fully balanced combo, no doubt.
> I went with FAW too. Should arrive next week.



I was thinking about getting new headphones as I wasn't overly happy with some aspects of the Senns...but with the MJ2 they are now very good... and balanced, I'm told, they will be even better, so looking forward to that. New headphones can wait for a while.


----------



## neoluddite

reddog said:


> I have used the following tubes NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, Telefunken TK's, NOS Ediswan CV2492, Genalex Gold Lions and the stock tubes. I have barely scratched the surface of tube rolling. My favorite tube are the NOS Telefunken E88CC platinum, which I use on special occasions.




Do give the Amperex tubes a try in the MJ2 - I have been quite pleased by how they sound as discussed in my MJ2 tube rolling thread..  Happy listening


----------



## TK16

neoluddite said:


> Do give the Amperex tubes a try in the MJ2 - I have been quite pleased by how they sound as discussed in my MJ2 tube rolling thread..  Happy listening



Which Amperex country  of origin? I did not care much for my `60 Amperex 6922 D-getter, but I like the Amperex 6922 D-getter pairs very much. As well as a `57 PW Amperex 6922 Heerlen pair.


----------



## neoluddite

TK16 said:


> Which Amperex country  of origin? I did not care much for my `60 Amperex 6922 D-getter, but I like the Amperex 6922 D-getter pairs very much. As well as a `57 PW Amperex 6922 Heerlen pair.




I have had great satisfaction with late 60's Holland Amperex 6922 CCa D Getters (w/ Valvo label) and with the Amperex early 50's Herleen Netherlands 6922 D-Getter whose labels.  They are outdoing all my other tubes in terms of sound, including Mullards and Mazdas.  Recognizing our musical preferences may differ, you can read my commentary under the Mjolnir2 tube rolling thread.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Off topic

What brand/type of USB cables are you using? Anyone using an Uptone Regen? Or the newer ISO model?


----------



## TK16

neoluddite said:


> I have had great satisfaction with late 60's Holland Amperex 6922 CCa D Getters (w/ Valvo label) and with the Amperex early 50's Herleen Netherlands 6922 D-Getter whose labels.  They are outdoing all my other tubes in terms of sound, including Mullards and Mazdas.  Recognizing our musical preferences may differ, you can read my commentary under the Mjolnir2 tube rolling thread.



D-getters ended in the early part of 1960, what is the code on the tubes? Around the beginning of 1956came the PW tubes up until about early 1958 (Heerlen). What is the code on the 2nd pair? Really like the Mullard/Brimar sound but German tubes are #1 for me. You should pop over to the Lyr tube rollers thread, more traffic than the MJ2 tube rolling thread.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff (Apr 30, 2017)

Although Panache drives my he6 better than MJ2, I have to say mj2 gets like 85% of the way there. It's only in refinement of the bass that panache pulls ahead, and even then it takes a moment to discern . And anyway panache is way too loud for anything other than that and k1000. Mj2 truly is a tremendous do-all amp.


----------



## Charente

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Although Panache drives my he6 better than MJ2, I have to say mj2 gets like 85% of the way there. It's only in refinement of the bass that panache pulls ahead, and even then it takes a moment to discern . And anyway panache is way too loud for anything other than that and k1000. Mj2 truly is a tremendous do-all amp.



Indeed, for me, with more modest headphones, it's superb. My MJ2 is pretty much run-in now and thoroughly enjoying it.


----------



## winders

You are going to have a hell of time finding a better or more versatile headphone amp for $850 than the Mjolnir 2.


----------



## neoluddite (Apr 30, 2017)

TK16 said:


> D-getters ended in the early part of 1960, what is the code on the tubes? Around the beginning of 1956came the PW tubes up until about early 1958 (Heerlen). What is the code on the 2nd pair? Really like the Mullard/Brimar sound but German tubes are #1 for me. You should pop over to the Lyr tube rollers thread, more traffic than the MJ2 tube rolling thread.




The CCa's are in the amp now and I won't pull them out for another week or so.

On the less fancy Amperex 6922's, I can find a 60-42 marking and a "7L4 or TL4" and a "*DE" or *OE"

I do keep an eye on the Lyr thread, out of interest.  I started the MJ2 tube rolling thread as the circuit design between the two amps is different leading to different reproduction characteristics. 

At this point, be it early days for some fo these tubes, to MY ear, I prefer the sound of the Amperex tubes very much;  the Mullards were not at all what I expected them to be, but you can read about that on the MJ2 tube rolling thread post discussing that experience.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

winders said:


> You are going to have a hell of time finding a better or more versatile headphone amp for $850 than the Mjolnir 2.



I couldn't agree more—the only place would be the universe of vintage stuff, and that is by and large for speakers, unsuitable for most headphones (as I am now finding). Certainly if you add the caveats *new* and *under warranty* (five year or otherwise) it is the only serious candidate. I still can't believe the WA-8 actually costs *more* than Ragnarok.


----------



## TK16

neoluddite said:


> The CCa's are in the amp now and I won't pull them out for another week or so.
> 
> On the less fancy Amperex 6922's, I can find a 60-42 marking and a "7L4 or TL4" and a "*DE" or *OE"
> 
> ...



Got the Lyr 2 as well, the same tubes in the Lyr 2 and MJ2 share the same characteristics. The MJ2 just happens to be a much better amp. Well worth the $849 I paid for it. The Lyr 2 is still a good amp in its own right, decided to keep it rather than selling it.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

TK16 said:


> Got the Lyr 2 as well, the same tubes in the Lyr 2 and MJ2 share the same characteristics. The MJ2 just happens to be a much better amp. Well worth the $849 I paid for it. The Lyr 2 is still a good amp in its own right, decided to keep it rather than selling it.



In general, I give away old low-fi/mid-fi gear rather than trying to sell it. If a friend can't afford it and would listen to something daily that's just sitting in my closet, it's very hard to justify holding onto it. Vali is going to be next.


----------



## Delayeed (May 4, 2017)

So I got a balanced cable from FAW today and now running Mojo -> MJ2 -> Ether C
and the sound is now more V-shaped. I don't like it...
Yeah there is considerable boost in extension both ways, dynamics, detail, seperation and so on but the sound is painfully harsh.

I tried running SE in and also using a SE->Balanced cable adapter for "balanced" in.
Didn't change anything. The balanced just sounds way more aggressive and the highs sound harsh.
It sounds like solid state. No tube smoothness. I've tried some Teslas, Siemens 70's and the stock tubes, still harsh.

Do people also experience this? SE sounds a lot smoother and non-fatiguing, more midrangey, but not as dynamic or resolving. I like the SE out a lot more so far, as I can listen to it for hours on end with no fatigue.


----------



## winders

Why don't you call up Schiit and talk to them or email them?

After adjusting the volume, I hear only small differences in sound quality between XLR and SE. I think the noise floor is a little lower with XLR and there is a bit more detail and clarity. It doesn't sound way more aggressive nor are the highs harsh or tiresome.

I am using much higher quality tubes though. I am using both early 1960's Siemens CCa and 1975 Soviet Reflektor 6N23P tubes. See here:

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/6...922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes.761078/


----------



## TK16

Delayeed said:


> So I got a balanced cable from FAW today and now running Mojo -> MJ2 -> Ether C
> and the sound is now more V-shaped. I don't like it...
> Yeah there is considerable boost in extension both ways, dynamics, detail, seperation and so on but the sound is painfully harsh.
> 
> ...



Tesla`s and Siemens to a smaller degree will brighten things up. You might want to give Heerlens, Mullards, Brimars a shot. Had a pair of Tesla`s and they are the harshest sounding tubes by far that I have tried. Found the Russian tubes 74 and 75 Reflektors SWGP too harsh sounding especially the 75`s. Not as bad as the Tesla`s though.


----------



## Charente

Delayeed said:


> So I got a balanced cable from FAW today and now running Mojo -> MJ2 -> Ether C
> and the sound is now more V-shaped. I don't like it...
> Yeah there is considerable boost in extension both ways, dynamics, detail, seperation and so on but the sound is painfully harsh.
> 
> ...



I also got a Forza-AW XLR cable a few days ago...I get everything you say, except the harshness or fatigue you describe. My setup is different to yours tho'. I'm using Siemens ECC88...better than stock tubes with my phones.


----------



## winders

I don't feel that the Siemens CCa nor the Reflektor tubes brighten things up. What they bring is detail, clarity, and what I consider nice attack and decay speed. What I mean by that is the attack and decay speed is what I would expect to hear from the real instrument. These characteristics could make some recording sound harsh at higher volumes...but those volumes would not be comfortable to listen at for me.


----------



## FLTWS (May 4, 2017)

Charente said:


> I also got a Forza-AW XLR cable a few days ago...I get everything you say, except the harshness or fatigue you describe. My setup is different to yours tho'. I'm using Siemens ECC88...better than stock tubes with my phones.



I've been running a pair of the Siemens ECC88's for about a month, very nice sound.


----------



## Delayeed

winders said:


> Why don't you call up Schiit and talk to them or email them?
> 
> After adjusting the volume, I hear only small differences in sound quality between XLR and SE. I think the noise floor is a little lower with XLR and there is a bit more detail and clarity. It doesn't sound way more aggressive nor are the highs harsh or tiresome.
> 
> ...



Just sent them an email. Yeah the noise floor is lower with XLR. And yeah it's not really WAY more aggressive but enough to make it painful to listen to.

 The transients are just too sharp and sounds like the highs were boosted like
2-3dB when compared to SE. Also the sub-bass extends noticeably lower and hits harder. Maybe need some midrangey tubes or just stick with SE.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I can't wait to test MJ2 as a preamp. I'm getting two RCA splitters so I can test the integrated amp straight from the DAC and with MJ2 in the middle with the switch of an input knob. Monoprice estimates the cables arrive early next week.


----------



## TK16

Finally chucked in some proper tubes in the MJ2, 1963 Siemens CCa. Very very good experience. Last time I used em was in my Ly2. Best $850 I spent in a long time getting the MJ2.


----------



## winders

TK16 said:


> Finally chucked in some proper tubes in the MJ2, 1963 Siemens CCa. Very very good experience. Last time I used em was in my Ly2. Best $850 I spent in a long time getting the MJ2.



Brighter or more detail and clarity?


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> Brighter or more detail and clarity?



I run warm tubes in my dac with them, got 1959 Valvo E88CC Heerlen D-getters in there now.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

So I split my Bifrost with mono price's RCA splitters and put one through the MJ2 and into the Panache, and the other straight into the Panache. I then switched between inputs to see how having the MJ2 with Orange Globes would affect the sound. I've only done an hour or so of direct A/Bing, but once volume matched, I really can't hear the slightest different out of my HE-6. K1000 might be a different story, though I still haven't found my 1/4 inch-XLR adapter and the banana plugs/XLR adapter is still days away...

Is MJ2 just an exceptionally neutral amp? Are we emperor's-new-clothes-ing our fevered discussion of minute (and perhaps inaudible) differences? Do my ears just really suck? Jason reminds us that transducers matter more than amplification or d/a conversion. We should take him seriously.


----------



## Thenazgul (May 10, 2017)

Next component. A highend passive Balanced Attentuator (volume control, 47 steps) that will be placed between the amplifier and the speakers. Now just two more sets of XLR-cables, USB AES interface between PC>DAC and the active studio monitors + stands
http://imgur.com/HOrFAMp


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

USB to AES? But whyyyyyyyyy? Just get a decent transport and cut out USB entirely. "USB still sounds like ass" —Mike Moffat's future gravestone (I assume)


----------



## Thenazgul

bosiemoncrieff said:


> USB to AES? But whyyyyyyyyy? Just get a decent transport and cut out USB entirely. "USB still sounds like ass" —Mike Moffat's future gravestone (I assume)



Well there will go very short audioquest Diamond cable to a Mutec MC3+ USB which is galvanic isolated. Then a 3M digital XLR cable to AES input of the yggy. My motherboard has two special USB-ports with separate 5V power on it. With the Mutec MC3+ USB I win also DSD conversion support (to PCM). Yggy doesn't support DSD native. 
Also it seems that the Yggy prefers the AES input over the USB-input/controller.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Galvanic isolation is a meaningless buzzword. Mike has been uncompromising on this point.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Can I use these tubes 6N3P-EV (with the adapters)


----------



## winders (May 23, 2017)

JerryLeeds said:


> Can I use these tubes 6N3P-EV (with the adapters)



Yes. I would suggest other 5670/2C51/396A tubes though.

Look here for some reasonable rankings:

http://dhost.info/mhdtlab/tube.htm


----------



## daddyo1973

Joining the thread. My Mjolnir arrives Thursday, just in time for a long weekend!

I am coming from a Jotunheim with a Mojo as a DAC.  I will be using the Mojo into the Mjolnir until my Gumby arrives in about a week. 

Going to run the Mjolnir stock for as long as I can to get a handle on it and then open up the tube drawer and start rolling.  Gonna be a good 4 day weekend.


----------



## rnros

JerryLeeds said:


> Can I use these tubes 6N3P-EV (with the adapters)



IMHO and experience the Reflector 6N3P-E is one of the finest small format (9 pin) tubes produced and available.
Search back through my posts to find descriptions and comparisons with other tubes in the 5670 and 6922 families.
I've tried every vintage of the Reflector 6N3P-E from '74 to '88 and they are consistent; easiest to find are the '80's of course.
Check my amp and headphone list. These are my favorite until you move into the large format (GT) tubes.
I have several $K invested in the 6922 tube group, so this recommendation is after some serious comparisons.
However... YMMV, everyone has different ears/equipment/experience.


----------



## Charente

daddyo1973 said:


> Joining the thread. My Mjolnir arrives Thursday, just in time for a long weekend!
> 
> I am coming from a Jotunheim with a Mojo as a DAC.  I will be using the Mojo into the Mjolnir until my Gumby arrives in about a week.
> 
> Going to run the Mjolnir stock for as long as I can to get a handle on it and then open up the tube drawer and start rolling.  Gonna be a good 4 day weekend.



Hi...you will have a treat in store..IME it does take some time to 'run in'...I've had mine since mid-April and it's only just staring to come on song (for me). Superb tho in my setup.


----------



## winders

rnros said:


> IMHO and experience the Reflector 6N3P-E is one of the finest small format (9 pin) tubes produced and available.
> Search back through my posts to find descriptions and comparisons with other tubes in the 5670 and 6922 families.
> I've tried every vintage of the Reflector 6N3P-E from '74 to '88 and they are consistent; easiest to find are the '80's of course.
> Check my amp and headphone list. These are my favorite until you move into the large format (GT) tubes.
> ...



I have a NOS pair of Reflector 6N3P-E tubes I will trade you for a pair of WE396A or Tesla 6CC42 PW tubes.....


----------



## Audiotic

I have upgraded to the Mjolnir2 now. And when using 1962 Philips NOS Tubes, versus the stock ones, I notice one very peculiar thing: when switching on the MJ2, it hums loudly for some seconds before it goes about quiet. It doesn't entirely go silent. With the stock tubes this doesn't happen. Why is this?
By the way, there is always a little hum. Onaudieble over the headphones! Just the unit itself.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

My orange globes from 1968 do have a tendency to "fart" when being turned on; thankfully, it's only gas being released, no residual dingleberries in ur audio chain.


----------



## rnros

winders said:


> I have a NOS pair of Reflector 6N3P-E tubes I will trade you for a pair of WE396A or Tesla 6CC42 PW tubes.....



No need for me to do any tube trading, really do have more than enough!
But, with 10 or more pairs of WE396A, you're welcome to a few pair for the going price.  
(I can always use the $$ for more headphones, amps and DACs...)


----------



## daddyo1973

My Mjolnir 2 arrived last night!  

After the unboxing I let the MJ2 warm up for about two hours and then came back for a late night listen.  Before getting the gear set up I noticed the whole unit really did warm up!  The MJ2 gets warmer than I would have expected given it only runs two tubes.

I set up an AQ Forest USB > Mojo > Kimber GQ Mini > Mjolnir 2 w/stock tubes > Audeze balanced cable > late 2016 Audeze LCD-2s for a late night listen.  Up to this point I had only ran my LCD-2s single ended and with moderate power.  I had always heard they do well off more power so I selected them to use for my first listen and boy what a treat!  Out of the MJ2 these things really sing, this amp just flat out makes these headphones so much better.  It was several hours later and I finally had to get some sleep, and only then did I realize my initial intentions where to run two other headphones off the MJ2 that night.  That right there is a sign of good things to come.

Also I gotta give a shout out to the crew at Schiit and FedEx for doing exactly what they were supposed to do when they said they would do it in order to get the amp in time for the long weekend.  That seems like such a small thing but man it just seems to happen less and less lately.


----------



## tjl5709

Audiotic said:


> I have upgraded to the Mjolnir2 now. And when using 1962 Philips NOS Tubes, versus the stock ones, I notice one very peculiar thing: when switching on the MJ2, it hums loudly for some seconds before it goes about quiet. It doesn't entirely go silent. With the stock tubes this doesn't happen. Why is this?
> By the way, there is always a little hum. Onaudieble over the headphones! Just the unit itself.



Try reseating them by giving them a wiggle. Older tubes can have alittle oxidation versus newer stuff.


----------



## peter1480

tjl5709 said:


> Try reseating them by giving them a wiggle. Older tubes can have alittle oxidation versus newer stuff.



try a bit of DeoxIT contact cleaner on the pins


----------



## TK16

daddyo1973 said:


> My Mjolnir 2 arrived last night!
> 
> After the unboxing I let the MJ2 warm up for about two hours and then came back for a late night listen.  Before getting the gear set up I noticed the whole unit really did warm up!  The MJ2 gets warmer than I would have expected given it only runs two tubes.
> 
> ...



Wait till you hear the MJ2 with your own personal holy grail tubes.


----------



## daddyo1973

TK16 said:


> Wait till you hear the MJ2 with your own personal holy grail tubes.



I am going to try my best to not open the tube drawer until I have a handle on the amp and what its capable of with the stock tubes.  My previous stereo pre-amplifier took 6922 tubes so I have matched low noise quads of JJ/Tesla, Electro-Harmonix and NOS Amperex.  Once I form my own opinion on the MJ2 I'll season to taste with tubes headphone pairings.  As of now, I have about 8-10 hours on it and feel no need to rush into tube rolling.

In general how does the MJ2 take to tube rolling, does it really let the tubes take over or is it more subtle?


----------



## TK16

Quite noticeable, more so than my Lyr 2. I have a Lite Dac 68 that takes  6DJ8 tubes as well and the Lyr 2 was about 60-65% of the sound vs my dac. With the MJ2 its about 80% of the sound now vs the tubes in my dac.


----------



## winders

daddyo1973 said:


> I am going to try my best to not open the tube drawer until I have a handle on the amp and what its capable of with the stock tubes.  My previous stereo pre-amplifier took 6922 tubes so I have matched low noise quads of JJ/Tesla, Electro-Harmonix and NOS Amperex.  Once I form my own opinion on the MJ2 I'll season to taste with tubes headphone pairings.  As of now, I have about 8-10 hours on it and feel no need to rush into tube rolling.
> 
> In general how does the MJ2 take to tube rolling, does it really let the tubes take over or is it more subtle?



That like driving a sports car with crappy tires. You will never get a feel for the Mjolnir 2 using those crappy stock tubes. Of the tubes you list, I would roll in the NOS Amperex. Which Amperex, by the way?

The Mjolnir 2, in my mind is more reactive to tubes than the Lyr 2. But, it is still a hybrid amp so tubes can only have so much effect. Don't worry, good tubes sound really nice in the Mjolnir 2!


----------



## daddyo1973 (May 26, 2017)

winders said:


> That like driving a sports car with crappy tires. You will never get a feel for the Mjolnir 2 using those crappy stock tubes. Of the tubes you list, I would roll in the NOS Amperex. Which Amperex, by the way?



Amperex 7308 gold pin

I guess what I am trying to say is that with several hours of listening on the stock tubes things are sounding really good.  If things settle in after several more hours thats a plus.  Then I can roll in tubes and thats _another_ plus.  So it would seem things are on a path to scale up rather nicely.


----------



## neoluddite

daddyo1973 said:


> I am going to try my best to not open the tube drawer until I have a handle on the amp and what its capable of with the stock tubes.  My previous stereo pre-amplifier took 6922 tubes so I have matched low noise quads of JJ/Tesla, Electro-Harmonix and NOS Amperex.  Once I form my own opinion on the MJ2 I'll season to taste with tubes headphone pairings.  As of now, I have about 8-10 hours on it and feel no need to rush into tube rolling.
> 
> In general how does the MJ2 take to tube rolling, does it really let the tubes take over or is it more subtle?




The MJ2 is a great platform for tube rolling.  You can indeed find tubes that will suit your personal tastes.  Play around with the stock tubes and try the solid state LISST gizmos, then experiment with tubes.  I think you will find very distinct differences among various tubes.  You can get much more warmth, treble and clarity vs the stock tubes.

Happy experimenting.

Michael


----------



## neoluddite

daddyo1973 said:


> Amperex 7308 gold pin
> 
> I guess what I am trying to say is that with several hours of listening on the stock tubes things are sounding really good.  If things settle in after several more hours thats a plus.  Then I can roll in tubes and thats _another_ plus.  So it would seem things are on a path to scale up rather nicely.




As for timinng, when I started comparing tubes, I ran them for 48 hours before critically listening.  I learned that was not long enough and now let the amp run for ~120 hrs before making and critical assessments of a tube pair.


----------



## neoluddite (May 28, 2017)

winders said:


> That like driving a sports car with crappy tires. You will never get a feel for the Mjolnir 2 using those crappy stock tubes. Of the tubes you list, I would roll in the NOS Amperex. Which Amperex, by the way?
> 
> The Mjolnir 2, in my mind is more reactive to tubes than the Lyr 2. But, it is still a hybrid amp so tubes can only have so much effect. Don't worry, good tubes sound really nice in the Mjolnir 2!




Hi Winders,

I believe I recall reading some Schiit material that explains the MJ2 operates in Class A mode until power demands require shifting to AB where silicon plays a bigger role.  So, I suppose that depending on how efficient one's headphones are and listening levels, you might be in Class A mode: for a circletron topology, I think that means you are relying on just the tubes for amplification.  If I am mistaken, I am happy to learn more.

Michael


----------



## Delayeed

neoluddite said:


> circle Ron topology



Circlotron* LMAO.

Didn't know it could run in both A and AB, that's interesting but I'm pretty sure the MOSFETs are always in use since the pre-amp tubes only do voltage amplification.

Also: The stock tubes suck.


----------



## daddyo1973 (May 27, 2017)

Ok, stock tubes suck but at the moment I don't think things sound bad so thats encouraging that it only gets better from here once the good tubes start rolling in.


----------



## TK16

With my Lyr 2 and MJ2 I never even used the stock tubes (heard they are decent), but there are far far better tubes out there.


----------



## daddyo1973

Ok, quick poll for a sanity check. How hot does your MJ2 top plate get to the touch after say 5-6 hours of use?

I listened for about 2-3 hours today and did not power it down right away. When I went back a few hours later to flip the power switch on the back the top plate was way beyond "warm".  I put my hand on the top plate and held it there and it was hot.


----------



## Charente

daddyo1973 said:


> Ok, quick poll for a sanity check. How hot does your MJ2 top plate get to the touch after say 5-6 hours of use?
> 
> I listened for about 2-3 hours today and did not power it down right away. When I went back a few hours later to flip the power switch on the back the top plate was way beyond "warm".  I put my hand on the top plate and held it there and it was hot.


Yep...same here...altho it seems to vary with ambient temperature IME...I don't think it's anything to worry about (prev Jason Stoddard posts have affirmed that)... it's Class A/AB... defacto  it runs hot...that's what it's supposed to do.


----------



## winders (May 28, 2017)

daddyo1973 said:


> Ok, quick poll for a sanity check. How hot does your MJ2 top plate get to the touch after say 5-6 hours of use?
> 
> I listened for about 2-3 hours today and did not power it down right away. When I went back a few hours later to flip the power switch on the back the top plate was way beyond "warm".  I put my hand on the top plate and held it there and it was hot.



It gets hot. Not so hot I can't keep my hand on it...but hot...and hotter than you would otherwise think is good.


----------



## JohnnyCanuck

winders said:


> It gets hot. Not so hot I can't keep my hand on to...but hot...and hotter than you would otherwise think is good.



That's just the way the output devices like it

JC


----------



## daddyo1973

Thanks for the responses everyone.  I've have owned tube amps and single ended class A stereo amps in the past that ran warm but this little guy is cooking!


----------



## TK16

daddyo1973 said:


> Thanks for the responses everyone.  I've have owned tube amps and single ended class A stereo amps in the past that ran warm but this little guy is cooking!


That is the outer casing doing its job, kinda like a heat sink.


----------



## tjl5709

daddyo1973 said:


> Thanks for the responses everyone.  I've have owned tube amps and single ended class A stereo amps in the past that ran warm but this little guy is cooking!



If you're going to be some tube rolling, get some extenders, it makes changes easier, and with them sticking up, it moves some of the heat out of the unit.


----------



## daddyo1973 (May 28, 2017)

TK16 said:


> That is the outer casing doing its job, kinda like a heat sink.



The case "heat sink" looks a lot better than my old stereo amp that had these massive heat sink fins bolted on either side of the chassis.


----------



## Rowethren

daddyo1973 said:


> The case "heat sink" looks a lot better than my old stereo amp that had these massive heat sink fins bolted on either side of the chassis.



Don't say that too loud, that is what the Vidar will look like


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

daddyo1973 said:


> The case "heat sink" looks a lot better than my old stereo amp that had these massive heat sink fins bolted on either side of the chassis.



I love the fins on my Panache. But MJ2 is perhaps a more utilitarian design in terms of functionality per gram of weight.


----------



## daddyo1973

Rowethren said:


> Don't say that too loud, that is what the Vidar will look like



Ah yes, the mythical Vidar.  I want to try that for my two channel stereo when it comes out.  Not sure it would replace my current integrated amp, but, it could enable some consolidation between my current headphone rig in the office and the stereo rig in the back room.  Too much Schiit to think about


----------



## Sergantwhitepepper

So i got a Mjolnir coming in a couple of days and i currently have some Amperex for it but should i burn it in for 10-20hrs with the stock tubes first or just change immediately?

Cheers


----------



## daddyo1973

Sergantwhitepepper said:


> So i got a Mjolnir coming in a couple of days and i currently have some Amperex for it but should i burn it in for 10-20hrs with the stock tubes first or just change immediately?
> 
> Cheers


I got my Mjolnir2 last week and opted to keep the stock tubes in for initial impressions. I feel it gives me a better baseline from which to roll in tubes later that suit my preferences. 

General consensus is that the stock tubes are nothing special and the MJ2 takes well to tube rolling. That said, it's still been a good week of listening to the stock amp while knowing things only  get better with the right tubes!


----------



## JerryLeeds

Use the stock tubes for a good long while ... once you want a change then change them


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I don't buy burn in. Smacks of audiophile nervosa.


----------



## TK16

daddyo1973 said:


> I got my Mjolnir2 last week and opted to keep the stock tubes in for initial impressions. I feel it gives me a better baseline from which to roll in tubes later that suit my preferences.
> 
> General consensus is that the stock tubes are nothing special and the MJ2 takes well to tube rolling. That said, it's still been a good week of listening to the stock amp while knowing things only  get better with the right tubes!



If your looking for tubes I post deals in the the Lyr tube rolling thread as I find them.
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-861


----------



## winders

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I don't buy burn in. Smacks of audiophile nervosa.



Burn in of what? Tubes? Amps? DACs? Cables?

Tubes absolutely burn in and change during the burn-in process. For example: I found the Reflektor 6N23P tubes to take about 50% longer than Siemens CCa tubes to burn-in, settle in, and sound right.


----------



## TK16

winders said:


> Burn in of what? Tubes? Amps? DACs? Cables?
> 
> Tubes absolutely burn in and change during the burn-in process. For example: I found the Reflektor 6N23P tubes to take about 50% longer than Siemens CCa tubes to burn-in, settle in, and sound right.


Out of the 3 dozen plus sets of tubes I own or owned only my 2 pair of PW, 2 pair of Siemens CCa and a pair of 1958 6922 D-getters  sounded great out of the box, the Russians and Mullards sounded the worst with no burn in. The Russians took the longest to settle in.


----------



## Argo Duck

I agree with TK16, finding (usually small) changes with some gear and not with others.

Personally, I _suspect _it's less to do with the gear and more to do with my brain adjusting to (a) a different presentation (b) things new gear might do incrementally better or worse than other gear I'm used to. Some differences I may adjust to and 'like', others not so much.

Potentially, there's a novelty effect too: new gear means I'm listening with full attention, which I may not have been doing for a while with familiar gear.


----------



## winders

It's not my brain adjusting. I have four pairs of the1975 Reflektor 6N23P "HG" tubes. Each pair required burn-in to sound right...even if the pair I was listening to before the burn-in was another Reflektor pair. The same was true with the Siemens CCa tubes.


----------



## SAndreev

Got my Mjolnir 2 three weeks ago. It was an impulsive, almost hasty purchase, which I was half-ready to regret (oh boy, I was wrong). One day I was just casually reading up on the subject of hybrid amps, then I stumbled upon a couple reviews and then went straight to Schiit's website then ended up here, in this thread. Couple hours later I was already googling up Schiit's UK dealer. 

Despite owning quite demanding headphones (Sennheiser HD650, bought from one of the first batches back in 2004, if I remember correctly), I never really bothered with a proper headphone amp. I used a headphone output of my Apogee Duet (the built in amp is quite decent) and only couple years ago I bought myself Creek OBH-21Mk2, but was never impressed with it. So initially I thought, that headphone amps are all like that, and do not affect the SQ in a meaningful way. Another problem was (and is) that I live on the small island, so it is quite hard for me to go to a good store and hear things out and compare to what I have. I have to carefully select what I order online and I rely heavily on the forums like this one, as they give a multitude of opinions and are invaluable in my case.

But back to Mjolnir 2. I was intrigued by the idea of a hybrid amp and honestly did not know what to expect, was even a bit sceptical. So when I finally got it I plugged it in with stock tubes, left it to warm up for about 10 hours playing couple songs on repeat while I was at work wondering what to listen to first. That evening was a revelation of sorts - finally I was really enjoying listening to the music via headphones! I do have a very decent home system (Dynaudio Contour speakers + Parasound P3 preamp + 2x (dual mono) Parasound A23 power amps), but I rarely use it for listening to the music lately, because my wife disapproves my listening volumes and sometimes the choice of music (ranging from mellow sounds of Buena Vista Social Club to a terrifying wall of sound from Dark Tranquility and such). So last several years I had to resort to listening music in headphones mostly, but I never really enjoyed it and mostly used music as a background. That evening all has changed, my HD650 got a new life brought into them. Suddenly I could hear so much more detail, much better bass and even better soundstage. Moreover, I no longer needed to crank up the volume to get full range of sound - the bass was always there even at 10 o'clock volume knob position. That evening I spent maybe 5 or 6 hours just going through my music collection, getting shivers down my spine every other track out of sheer pleasure of re-discovery. What impressed me the most was the holographic effect of presence, especially once I got to a good recording for headphones (Open Your Ears CD). Even playing games on my PC was a whole new experience audio-wise (almost crap myself during one of those jump scare moments in the new Prey).

Last three weeks were spent rediscovering my music library and reading up on tube rolling with MJ2. For now got myself a pair of Genalex Gold Lions, the difference to stock tubes is very minor, but they feel a bit more accurate and precise. I personally like more neutral sound, so it fits my preferences, but I plan to continue exploring different tubes.

So thanks to that thread for one of the best purchases of audio equipment in the last maybe 10 years for me, back to lurking and enjoying music.


----------



## ToddRaymond

@SAndreev Happy to hear it's working out so well for you.  I personally recommend following the invaluable advice from @rnros , and  grab some 6N3P-E Reflektors (you'll need a pair of adapters).  They're as wonderful as they are inexpensive.  You may find you prefer a much warmer sounding tube, and so on, but it could be a great money and time-saving shortcut route.  I bought 150 of them for a little more than a single pair of the '75 silver shields single wire getter post 'holy grail' 6N23P's.  I sold both pairs of my '75s, and I'm set for life.  Either way, moving beyond the stock tubes should yield considerable gains.


----------



## daddyo1973 (Jun 2, 2017)

SAndreev said:


> I do have a very decent home system (Dynaudio Contour speakers + Parasound P3 preamp + 2x (dual mono) Parasound A23 power amps), but I rarely use it for listening to the music lately, because my wife disapproves my listening volumes and sometimes the choice of music



I can totally relate to that!  My only real time to listen is late at night and even at my modest listening volumes I still get complaints from the family.  So off I went into the rabbit hole of headphones.  

Anyways...welcome to the MJ2 club!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Tremendous club, the best club.


----------



## file1man

thyname said:


> You can't go wrong with either one of those two.
> 
> I am using my MJ2 with Holo Spring L3 Kitsune edition, and this setup is definitely my "endgame " setup. The missing link for me is a Singxer SU-1, which is coming next week.
> 
> Rolling tubes I discovered is fun and joy!


----------



## file1man

thyname said:


> You can't go wrong with either one of those two.
> 
> I am using my MJ2 with Holo Spring L3 Kitsune edition, and this setup is definitely my "endgame " setup. The missing link for me is a Singxer SU-1, which is coming next week.
> 
> Rolling tubes I discovered is fun and joy!


I use a FiiO 5 3rd gen with spotify extreme over my wifi to get all my music even through all 3 home computers are wired to my router- would a schiit wyrd or singxer f1 processing the  usb from one of the computers give me improved sound compared to my wifi from the Fiio5 3rd gen transport. I have a Jotunheim coming this week for my bedroom headphone setup.. a gungnir dac has sat unused for 2 years and will be in the chain... my headphones are hd650 and newly purchased- m1060, focal elear, e mu teak


----------



## daddyo1973

file1man said:


> I use a FiiO 5 3rd gen with spotify extreme over my wifi to get all my music even through all 3 home computers are wired to my router- would a schiit wyrd or singxer f1 processing the  usb from one of the computers give me improved sound compared to my wifi from the Fiio5 3rd gen transport. I have a Jotunheim coming this week for my bedroom headphone setup.. a gungnir dac has sat unused for 2 years and will be in the chain... my headphones are hd650 and newly purchased- m1060, focal elear, e mu teak



I am experimenting with a Gustard U12 and a Singxer SU1 in my system now, both are feeding a Gungnir multibit DAC via SPDIF. Prior to this it had always been straight USB out of my computer right into a DAC. 

I can now say there is something to this whole USB conversion, clocking, jitter reducing thing as both pieces enhance what I am hearing.


----------



## shadow_shooter

Folks, what's the way to connect 2.5mm iem balanced headphones to my balanced outputs? 1/4 or xlr? I'm going crazy. I need female trrs to 3.5mm male to 1/4??


----------



## Joel Vanderbaum

Got the Mjolnir 2 with Gumby a few weeks ago and have to say it's been absolute treat. Coming from the Jotunheim, this combo is a great upgrade and my Ether Flows are driven amazingly. Using some '68 orange globes, really smooth and warm tubes, just what I like


----------



## peter1480

shadow_shooter said:


> Folks, what's the way to connect 2.5mm iem balanced headphones to my balanced outputs? 1/4 or xlr? I'm going crazy. I need female trrs to 3.5mm male to 1/4??


You need one of these female 2.5mm or 3.5mm TRRS Balanced to 4-pin XLR male remeber to swithch to low gain unless your iems are hard to drive and turn the volume down. Some tubes can be a bit hissy with very sensitive iems but the lissts sound nice.


----------



## shadow_shooter

peter1480 said:


> You need one of these female 2.5mm or 3.5mm TRRS Balanced to 4-pin XLR male remeber to swithch to low gain unless your iems are hard to drive and turn the volume down. Some tubes can be a bit hissy with very sensitive iems but the lissts sound nice.


Thanks! I eventually figured it out and ordered one already. Trrs to xlr male plug. I already listened to it using 3.5mm to 1/4 plug in low gain. Mjolnir 2 coupled with gumby using xlr balanced connection. I thought I was getting good output with the adapter than I started wiggling with the headphone plug and pulled it out tiny bit. Guess what another channel was introduced and I was in 360 immersive sound. But mind you this is me pulling headphone connecter tiny bit and hold in that position, it was awesome. When I fully plugged it in, all separation sound stage was gone. It was on my face dull sound coming from both phones equally. 

Today I bought a new adapter and nervous about giving it a try. Honestly I would kill my newborn for that extra channel added. Let's see if the new adapter will work


----------



## daddyo1973 (Jun 18, 2017)

Joel Vanderbaum said:


> Got the Mjolnir 2 with Gumby a few weeks ago and have to say it's been absolute treat. Coming from the Jotunheim, this combo is a great upgrade and my Ether Flows are driven amazingly. Using some '68 orange globes, really smooth and warm tubes, just what I like



Great pairing!  I am playing Crosby, Stills & Nash off Tidal right now on almost that same rig (Gumby->MJ2 w/Gold Lions->Ether Flow).  Re-discovering old music on a (IMO) top flight rig is indeed an absolute treat.


----------



## shadow_shooter

Ok problem was the faulty adapter. Everything is good for now.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

[QUOTE="shadow_shooter, post: 13552874, member: 53340]

Today I bought a new adapter and nervous about giving it a try. Honestly I would kill my newborn for that extra channel added. Let's see if the new adapter will work [/QUOTE]

Message from your born/unborn newborn: please don't kill me. Not even for the Orpheus.


----------



## Sergantwhitepepper (Jun 21, 2017)

Finally it arrived! Mighty impressed and what an upgrade from my Little dot mk3 - i even shed a tear while listening to halford scream my ears off, the 650hd really came alive, fatter bass, sharper treble (for pretty dark HPs) and the midrange strong as ever. Best buy in my hifi career.
Sad my cheap balanced cable dident register as a 4pin XLR though, so had to order a new one. Interested how it develops with further burn in and tube changes


----------



## Mark Stamper

I love it, sounds awesome....


----------



## Siigari

Mine just arrived today with a pair of LISST. I'm starting off with them so I can get a feel for where "center" is, then I want to start experimenting with various tubes.

I'm excited!


----------



## Charente

Siigari said:


> Mine just arrived today with a pair of LISST. I'm starting off with them so I can get a feel for where "center" is, then I want to start experimenting with various tubes.
> 
> I'm excited!



Good way to start...that's what I did


----------



## a44100Hz (Jun 22, 2017)

*As a general PSA, if you are experiencing humming, listening fatigue or pain, or have noticed that having other electrical items on in your home changes your listening experience for the worse, get yourself an Emotiva CMX-2 power conditioning unit. *I was experiencing pain from listening through HD650 (or any headphones, actually) until I added the Emotiva. It was a more noticeable improvement to listening pleasure than changing tubes (both Miniwatts and WE396A's were causing me physical discomfort). If you're concerned your power is causing any sorts of issues, give it a try. It's worth it; I'm not the only person I've spoken with who has heard the benefits of a power conditioner. Note I had no noticed issues with less expensive Schiit amps. The Mjo 2 is just a beast and benefits from clean power, I suspect.


----------



## Mark Stamper

a44100Hz said:


> *As a general PSA, if you are experiencing humming, listening fatigue or pain, or have noticed that having other electrical items on in your home changes your listening experience for the worse, get yourself an Emotiva CMX-2 power conditioning unit. *I was experiencing pain from listening through HD650 (or any headphones, actually) until I added the Emotiva. It was a more noticeable improvement to listening pleasure than changing tubes (both Miniwatts and WE396A's were causing me physical discomfort). If you're concerned your power is causing any sorts of issues, give it a try. It's worth it; I'm not the only person I've spoken with who has heard the benefits of a power conditioner. Note I had no noticed issues with less expensive Schiit amps. The Mjo 2 is just a beast and benefits from clean power, I suspect.



Thanks, I got the CMX-6. Cheap enough to give it a try. Sometimes when I turn off a light my monitor and TV go out for a few seconds.


----------



## Mark Stamper

Mark Stamper said:


> Thanks, I got the CMX-6. Cheap enough to give it a try. Sometimes when I turn off a light my monitor and TV go out for a few seconds.



I just noticed that the CMX-6 and 2 are different, so I got the CMX-2 too.

Do you think I could daisy chain the 6 to the 2, using one of the 2's plugs?


----------



## ctaxxxx

All, how versatile is the Mjolnir in terms of warmth/brightness? 

I have a Cavalli Liquid Carbon to warm up bright headphones (HD800), but was thinking of getting the Jotunheim to brighten up darker headphones (NightOwl, possibly Atticus in the future). Would the Mjolnir 2 have both bases covered with normal tubes, and the LISST tubes? Or is it closer to neutral with the LISST tubes? I've seen the amp described as musical, which tends to mean warm.


----------



## rnros

ctaxxxx said:


> All, how versatile is the Mjolnir in terms of warmth/brightness?
> 
> I have a Cavalli Liquid Carbon to warm up bright headphones (HD800), but was thinking of getting the Jotunheim to brighten up darker headphones (NightOwl, possibly Atticus in the future). Would the Mjolnir 2 have both bases covered with normal tubes, and the LISST tubes? Or is it closer to neutral with the LISST tubes? I've seen the amp described as musical, which tends to mean warm.



To answer your first question: Yes, wide latitude depending on tubes selected.
I have never found the MJ2 to be excessively 'bright', perhaps with some tubes, a little more energy in the upper mids, but I do choose tubes carefully.

Q2: Stock tubes, if they are still the same Russian tube as initially provided, are good to OK, depending on what you have heard before. Can't answer for the LSST.
However, I will say you can 'cover the bases' with less than the cost of the LSST pair. You don't need to spend extravagant sums of money to get the high quality tubes, very reasonable in fact. (You mentioned the 'wallet' issue on your profile page.)

MJ2 described as musical?: That term does get used a bit, IMO, it would mean the same as that given in the dictionary. Anyway, the MJ2 is not warm, although you could go in that direction with tubes that emphasize the low end. Best thing I can say about the MJ2 in this regard, or any amp of similar capability, is that it will give you better control of both the low and the high end.


----------



## Argo Duck

a44100Hz said:


> I'm not the only person I've spoken with who has heard the benefits



I too like speaking with myself. I find it both agreeable and productive 

Btw, sounds like good advice to use power conditioning.


----------



## winders

In my quest for the best sound quality possible from my digitally sourced music, I concentrated on devices to clean up and decrapify the USB signals sent to my DAC. I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing to do. But, a thread over on CA reminded me that there are other important steps to be taken as well. One of those steps is providing clean power to the audio gear in the first place.

John Swenson suggested getting an isolation transformer with extremely low inter-winding capacitance (.005pf or .0005pf). This type of isolation transformer "doesn't pass the high frequency crud on the AV main". He then suggested using a quality power strip with no filtering or surge suppression as the isolation transformer will handle that. He recommended plugging all the audio components into the power strip. He said "This dramatically cuts down on the impedance between boxes, significantly lowering noise generated by leakage loops." John uses a Topaz isolation transformer.

I bought a 2.5KVA Topaz 91002-31 Line Noise Suppressing Utra-Isolator (.0005pF) transformer. I plugged it in to a wall outlet and then plugged a TrippLite power strip with all my audio equipment (not the computer) into it. This includes my Yggdrasil, Mjolnir 2, Freya, and my powered monitors.

The first bit of good news is that the transformer is virtually silent. If I stick my head right next to it I can here a slight hum but it is well below the ambient noise of the room with no music playing. I have no idea how clean or dirty my AC power is on the outlet I had the audio equipment plugged into. I can say that with the Topaz I think the noise floor is lower. In other words, the background sounds quieter. It's like the music is coming from a noiseless place. The details and clarity in the timbre of voices and instruments has improved. Finally, the separation of instruments and voices is even better than before.

Listening to Steely Dan's "Hey Nineteen" is amazing. The soundstage is fantastic. It is not too wide and the I can clearly discern the location of the various instruments better than before. Listening to CCR's "Susie Q" is wow...just wow!! The clarity, separation, and detail are incredible! 

Using the Topaz isolation transformer and TrippLite power strip is certainly a step up in sound quality. I am impressed! Very impressed indeed!!

I am still using the Singxer F-1 to feed my Yggdrasil via its SPDIF coax port.


----------



## a44100Hz

Mark Stamper said:


> I just noticed that the CMX-6 and 2 are different, so I got the CMX-2 too.
> 
> Do you think I could daisy chain the 6 to the 2, using one of the 2's plugs?



Don't see why not. I daisy chained a cheapo surge protector into mine.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

As regards warmth and coldness, I find digital EQ infinitely more malleable and effective than tube rolling.


----------



## Delayeed

aaaand cheaper


----------



## winders

Digital EQ? Yuck....I'll take analog , please!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff (Jun 25, 2017)

winders said:


> Digital EQ? Yuck....I'll take analog , please!



Heaven forfend someone try to process the digital signal with some kind of Manhattan Project or something...

I find tube rolling best for finding the utmost transparency. For coloration, it is so much more fiddly (and expensive!) than Sonarworks & Co, so much less adjustable, reproducible, etc. — it is for those who enjoy the fiddliness of it as a hobby as one might enjoy the "ceremony" of vinyl etc.


----------



## Aurimas

Hey all,
upgraded from Grado RS2e to Audeze LCD-2 (fazor), and... I really like Gradio more... Sad, but true.
I'm thinking maybe my Feliks Audio Espressivo headphone amp is not capable driving Audeze's properly. And always had crush on Schiit stuff. But I live in Lithuania, so there is no way I could listen Schiit Mjolnir2 before buying. But this forums says it's pretty good pair with Audeze, yes?


----------



## Mark Stamper

Aurimas said:


> Hey all,
> upgraded from Grado RS2e to Audeze LCD-2 (fazor), and... I really like Gradio more... Sad, but true.
> I'm thinking maybe my Feliks Audio Espressivo headphone amp is not capable driving Audeze's properly. And always had crush on Schiit stuff. But I live in Lithuania, so there is no way I could listen Schiit Mjolnir2 before buying. But this forums says it's pretty good pair with Audeze, yes?



I have the LCD 2s and they sound awesome with this amp.


----------



## Charente

Does anyone have any experience with ZMF Eikon on MJ2 / GMB ? Also which tubes might be best for the Eikon ? ... Any thoughts would be appreciated.


----------



## Globox

Hi everyone !
I bought a MJ2 used a couple mounth ago. I used it for my LCD-X plugged on the XLR output with no problem during hours ! One day, I sent my LCD-X for upgrade to the store so I used my "old" PS500 on the jack output... Unfortunatly, there was some hissing in the sound from time to time. I like, damn it, my PS500 is broken ! So I plugged in my SR125i ==> Same thing.
As a source, I am using a PC > USB PYST > WYRD > USB PYST > Gumby > XLR PYST > MJ2. I tried to plug my phone on the RCA imput of the MJ2 ==> same thing.
My LCDx came back from servicing so I tried it on the jack output of the MJ2 ==> I still have the problem.

I also tried 3 different pairs of tubes (including some brand new ones) and the LSST. Same problem, always and only on the jack output. So I sent my MJ2 for servicing to the European dealer and he told me that everything is fine with my amplifier.

I don't understand what the problem can be if it doesn't come from the amplifier. Any idea ? By the way, did anyone experiment the same thing ?

Thank you all !


----------



## rnros (Aug 14, 2017)

If it's good with XLR, and always there with SE jack, with all your headphones and tubes, I would clean the SE jack first, and if still no change, I would call the Euro service dealer again and ask if he checked the SE jack because you are still having the same problem.
Doesn't sound like a power issue since the XLR is good, but I would still try different locations, direct to the wall socket. Disconnect everything and just use a simple line out feed from your phone again.


----------



## Globox

The dealer still has it right now and, so far, did not find any issue with the jack. That is so odd... The only one thing they found is a foot that is shorter than the 3 other one. Which is true, I sent it also for this problem... But that is not the main concern...
I hope they will experiment the sonic problem this week as they won't send it back until next monday.


----------



## Eldair (Aug 14, 2017)

Hey, i have own MJ2 about 3 month and this amp is a beast in good way. I just love it. Gungnir mb is coming next. I have question about tubes. Do these 6N23 work straight or do i need adaptors or something? Can you suggest some "warm" sound tubes? 
My headphones are HD 600. Thanks


----------



## Rowethren

I love the iFi NOS 6922 nice balanced sound and not as hot as other tubes.


----------



## Eldair (Aug 14, 2017)

Many have said that those Ifi are nice but i can´t get them in EU and if i buy in America post cost like 50€ what i have looked.
I don´t like to spend more than 200€ for tubes. I mean tubes not post


----------



## Rowethren

I am in the UK and got them from http://www.selectaudio.co.uk/ give them an email and they should be able to sort you out or contact iFi and they can tell you where you can get them from in the EU or check here https://ifi-audio.com/sales/


----------



## neoluddite

Globox said:


> Hi everyone !
> I bought a MJ2 used a couple mounth ago. I used it for my LCD-X plugged on the XLR output with no problem during hours ! One day, I sent my LCD-X for upgrade to the store so I used my "old" PS500 on the jack output... Unfortunatly, there was some hissing in the sound from time to time. I like, damn it, my PS500 is broken ! So I plugged in my SR125i ==> Same thing.
> As a source, I am using a PC > USB PYST > WYRD > USB PYST > Gumby > XLR PYST > MJ2. I tried to plug my phone on the RCA imput of the MJ2 ==> same thing.
> My LCDx came back from servicing so I tried it on the jack output of the MJ2 ==> I still have the problem.
> ...




Hi,  Sad to read of your problem..  As other fellow Schiit travelers have already noted, it sure sounds like the phono jack is the issue.  Have you consulted with the Nick at Schiit?  He is usually helpful, though brief.  He can be reached at tech at schiit dot com....


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

MJ2 continues to be my recommendation as a do-all amp. It's not euphonic in the way that the Woo stuff is, but it is highly neutral and linear, and with good tubes achieves incredible transparency. With *any* tubes it is ridiculously POWERFUL and will make a tremendous headphone amplifier even for HE-6 and K1000.


----------



## Globox

neoluddite said:


> Hi,  Sad to read of your problem..  As other fellow Schiit travelers have already noted, it sure sounds like the phono jack is the issue.  Have you consulted with the Nick at Schiit?  He is usually helpful, though brief.  He can be reached at tech at schiit dot com....


Nop, so far, only local Schiit dealer takes care of it. But, if they can't find anything, I will try to contact Nick. Thanks for the advice !


----------



## eee1111 (Aug 15, 2017)

thinking of upgrading from lyr 2

is this a no brainer for my new hifiman he1000s?
are they good with low gain 




and should I go telefunken again?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

They're fine with low gain unless you want ear blasting volumes. 

This is a very fun thread to post in but the product is so intensely recommendable that 97% of interactions can easily go: "Should I get Mjolnir 2 with headphone X?" "Yeah for the money it's the best option."


----------



## eee1111 (Aug 15, 2017)

the lyr 2 had a bit of a hard time powering my he1k but it still gave me loud volumes

how could this be as bad or worse

its gotta power them better


----------



## tjl5709

More power than the Lyr2, better bottom and top end from a clarity standpoint.

Whats not to like.

How do I know?  I have both. 

Up graded when they released it as I had a bunch of good tubes from rolling on the Lyr. Paired with Yggy, it's end game for me. 

Well at least for the time being. 

If the Ether E's are as good as they appear from the early comments, I could be expanding my HP station.


----------



## eee1111 (Aug 15, 2017)

I have telefunken e88cc from my lyr 2

and they probably have only 100 hours on them

biggest issue is waiting for mjolnir 2 and gungnir multibit to arrive


----------



## TK16

The MJ2 is worth the wait, got the Lyr2 as well. A substantial upgrade over the Lyr2. Tubes are more transparent with the MJ2. Lyr 2 is no slouch though. Got the MJ2 to go balanced.


----------



## eee1111

im gonna have to part ways with the lyr 2 to pay bills


----------



## ahossam

Any impression Elear > Mjolnir 2 with stock tube?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Mike has a "buy better gear" light on Yggdrasil, not sure if Elear would make MJ2 light up with such an LED.


----------



## rnros

ahossam said:


> Any impression Elear > Mjolnir 2 with stock tube?



It's great with the MJ2, but I didn't use the stock tubes. I will add that excellent tubes can be had for a very modest cost.
The Elears are easily driven, the MJ2 will enhance the performance with a very low noise floor and larger soundstage.
Of course, the tubes contribute to the microdynamics within that soundstage. 
(Only tried SE with the Elear. I would expect balanced to add dimension.)


----------



## neoluddite

eee1111 said:


> thinking of upgrading from lyr 2
> 
> is this a no brainer for my new hifiman he1000s?
> are they good with low gain
> ...




I am using HE1000's Verson 1 and I can deafen myself with the Mjolnir.. Same for the Hifiman LCX.  Great amp/ great headphones combination for me


----------



## neoluddite

ahossam said:


> Any impression Elear > Mjolnir 2 with stock tube?




You can do much better than stock tubes   Go see my thread on Mjolnir tube rolling.


----------



## ahossam

neoluddite said:


> You can do much better than stock tubes   Go see my thread on Mjolnir tube rolling.



Damn this hobby man!!...I ended up getting Mjolnir 2 it should be arrive sometimes next week, too bad I have to wait Gungnir MB as my local dealer says they're out of stock right now.

I have subscribe to your threads and I hope I can get control of myself to not get lost in tube rolling madness


----------



## Gavin C4

I am also using Mjolnir 2 stock tubes with the HE1000. Low gain is already more than enough for the volume. Never turn it pass 9 oclock on low gain.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

For every can except K1000 and HE-6, MJ2 is unimpeachable (perhaps Abyss as well—I don't know—and for those it is merely quite competent, without being exemplary). I'm shocked the Schiitr doesn't have the HE1k to show off, given that the pairing is, as you say, so good.


----------



## eee1111

I'm patiently waiting for the combo to arrive

I have also returned the HEK for the HEK2, Got 3 pairs of tubes, and got a used pair of Audeze LCD-X

I'm set for the foreseeable future


----------



## Globox (Sep 1, 2017)

Globox said:


> Nop, so far, only local Schiit dealer takes care of it. But, if they can't find anything, I will try to contact Nick. Thanks for the advice !


Well, they found nothing... So I am going to try a couple more things this weekend and then, send an email to Nick if I can't find anything.


----------



## Globox

eee1111 said:


> I'm patiently waiting for the combo to arrive
> 
> I have also returned the HEK for the HEK2, Got 3 pairs of tubes, and got a used pair of Audeze LCD-X
> 
> I'm set for the foreseeable future


How can you use a prefazor LCD-X ? Aren't they all Fazor ? I thought only the LCD-2 and 3 had some prefazor drivers.


----------



## eee1111 (Sep 1, 2017)

no you are right all lcd x have fazor


When I bought it I was told it was before fazor

But all lcdx have fazor apparently


----------



## AudioJimmy

Hi Guys,
Is there any other option on the market to the Mjolnir 2?  Meaning headphone tubeamp + preout for active speakers...

Many thanks in advance!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Lyr? Valhalla? Vali?


----------



## AudioJimmy

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Lyr? Valhalla? Vali?


Ah yeah. I should have been more specific. I also meant other than Schiit


----------



## eee1111

there are tons of amps that compete with mj2


----------



## Globox

AudioJimmy said:


> Hi Guys,
> Is there any other option on the market to the Mjolnir 2?  Meaning headphone tubeamp + preout for active speakers...
> 
> Many thanks in advance!



You have the Little Dot MK8, and also many AudioValve amps


----------



## eee1111 (Sep 2, 2017)

The connection between mj2 and gumby multi bit......


... xlr

The ones I got from monoprice don't say anything about quality or balanced


----------



## AverageGuyNC

eee1111 said:


> The connection between mj2 and gumby multi bit......
> 
> 
> Does it have to be a balanced xlr or can it be a regular xlr
> ...



XLR is balanced. (RCA is not balanced.) If u have XLR,  u are running it in balanced as far as I know


----------



## Globox

True.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Every time I think I wanna get gumby to go along with mj I remember yggy and hold off. Prob will be at least another year but gumby would just delay the inevitable. Better to have a desktop rig and a two channel rig with a definite demarcation. Not sure though which dac would go where...


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Every time I think I wanna get gumby to go along with mj I remember yggy and hold off. Prob will be at least another year but gumby would just delay the inevitable. Better to have a desktop rig and a two channel rig with a definite demarcation. Not sure though which dac would go where...



If the Ygg can't pull double duty I'd be tempted to put it with the 2 channel rig. I'm pretty sure once you've got your hands wrapped around your Ygg you'll figure it out.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'd need panache to do speakers and k1000/he6. Then again I could replace mj2 with wa5. The irony being both of my amps would be single ended only.


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I'd need panache to do speakers and k1000/he6. Then again I could replace mj2 with wa5. The irony being both of my amps would be single ended only.



And these two rigs will be in different rooms I'm guessing?


----------



## eee1111

it arrives Friday with a gumby

Im sending the lyr2 and bifrost uber to a new home on Tuesday


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

FLTWS said:


> And these two rigs will be in different rooms I'm guessing?



I would assume, though my studio apartment at present barely has room for the one. A TV is probably out of the question (65" UHD OLED 4K or bust)


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I would assume, though my studio apartment at present barely has room for the one. A TV is probably out of the question (65" UHD OLED 4K or bust)



LOL! I keep wondering when my 10 year old plasma will expire. "(65" UHD OLED 4K or bust)", sounds perfect to me.


----------



## Globox (Sep 5, 2017)

Hey guy. I have a problem with my MJ2. It stands only on 3 feet... I was wondering if I could relocate the back feet to do like on the MJ1.

Here is my MJ2 :





Here is what I want to do :
MJ1 :





Gungnir :





Would it work ? Can I remove the 2 back feet to put only one in the middle ?

Thanks !


----------



## xaznxeclipsex

Does your units get very hot to the touch?


----------



## Globox (Sep 5, 2017)

xaznxeclipsex said:


> Does your units get very hot to the touch?


Well, I can put my hand on it no problem. But it is warm enough to be not so comfortable after a little while.
Why ?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Tubes run hotter than LISST. Kind of want WA5 or WA22 for dat euphony but unclear if I could ever give up MJ2...


----------



## Globox

So true ! I am wondering if it is a good thing to put some tube lifter so the come out of the amp and are more refreshed by the air.
What about the feet mode I wish to do ?


----------



## JerryLeeds

I use socket savers ... but things still get HOT


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I should get a few of those.


----------



## Globox

Globox said:


> Well, they found nothing... So I am going to try a couple more things this weekend and then, send an email to Nick if I can't find anything.


I sent an email to Nick on Monday 4th. I did not get an answer so far. So I tried to send a message throw the contact form.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Anyone change the feet to raise the amp higher to create better air flow for the DAC on the bottom of stack?


----------



## ToneDeath

Globox said:


> Hey guy. I have a problem with my MJ2. It stands only on 3 feet... I was wondering if I could relocate the back feet to do like on the MJ1.
> 
> Here is my MJ2 :
> 
> ...


Not to be a SA , what possible advantage could there be to either three or four feet? My three footed Gungnir MB has three legs.  If you push down on the rear portion right of left side of the unit it gets a little tipsy, so I don't push on it.

TD


----------



## ToneDeath (Sep 11, 2017)

JerryLeeds said:


> Anyone change the feet to raise the amp higher to create better air flow for the DAC on the bottom of stack?


It looks as if the MJ2 is designed to draw cool air through the sides and expel it from the top around the tubes using convection. Then again I've never seen a bottom picture of the unit.

I leave my Gungnir powered on at all times, it gets warm but not excessively hot.

I'm sure testing at Schiit would have caught it before it became a problem.

JMTC

TD


----------



## ToneDeath

JerryLeeds said:


> I use socket savers ... but things still get HOT


I ordered a pair from Tubemonger, hated to pay $28.00 each when you can find them cheap on eBay. I'm sure the quality is superior to the $4.00 units and a little vibration dampening can't hurt. At least Tubemonger is fair on the shipping, only $4.00


----------



## ToneDeath (Sep 11, 2017)

eee1111 said:


> it arrives Friday with a gumby
> 
> Im sending the lyr2 and bifrost uber to a new home on Tuesday


eee1111 the Gumby is a fine piece of equipment, I can't wait to hear it with the MJ2 balanced.


----------



## Globox

And you won't be disapointed !


----------



## Globox

ToneDeath said:


> Not to be a SA , what possible advantage could there be to either three or four feet? My three footed Gungnir MB has three legs.  If you push down on the rear portion right of left side of the unit it gets a little tipsy, so I don't push on it.
> 
> TD


Well, I agree ! The problem is : Can I remove the back feet and the central screw without making stuff loose in the unit !


----------



## JerryLeeds

ToneDeath said:


> I ordered a pair from Tubemonger, hated to pay $28.00 each when you can find them cheap on eBay. I'm sure the quality is superior to the $4.00 units and a little vibration dampening can't hurt. At least Tubemonger is fair on the shipping, only $4.00




Yes ... those are the same ones I purchased ...


----------



## FLTWS (Sep 12, 2017)

ToneDeath said:


> I ordered a pair from Tubemonger, hated to pay $28.00 each when you can find them cheap on eBay. I'm sure the quality is superior to the $4.00 units and a little vibration dampening can't hurt. At least Tubemonger is fair on the shipping, only $4.00



I have these, excellent quality and, I feel, fairly priced. However, for the first 9 to 10 months I did a lot of tube rolling, and over time I ended up wrestling with the fact that as I removed a tube the lifter would become loose as well or sometimes come out (or partially out) with the tube. I remember reading suggestions to slip some dental floss or thread under the lifter or tube to assist but the more I thought about it the less I liked the idea of something that might melt or ignite down in the hole and these sockets are pretty tight so whatever i used it would have to be very strong and then I was concerned about the control over what I was removing as the tube openings are small. Plus, having the pig tales sticking out and laying across the top of the unit was a less than elegant solution / look. The lifters (duh) lift the top of the tube higher above the top surface of the MJ2 making them more of a target.

I then sat down, took my audi-O-C-D hat off and put on the tin foil one. Knowing Schiiits design mentality from reading the book and their posts, would Schiit design any piece of equipment, tubed or solid state, that they knew would shorten tube or other component life? I've never seen any temperature measurements that might settle the issue one way or the other.A tube can fail or get noisy but will lifters prevent those things from happening?  I tube the MJ2 as designed and stopped stressing over it.

Again, the lifters are well designed and a solid piece of kit. For the money and considering how expensive some tube pairs can be there's no harm in using them and maybe they will extend tube life and maybe make more sense to me if your not, or are done, tube rolling. Another thought, unless you leave your equipment on 24/7 how many around here hang on to any piece of gear before, what, 10,000 hours of use?

As always, pluses and minuses.


----------



## ToneDeath

FLTWS said:


> I have these, excellent quality and, I feel, fairly priced. However, for the first 9 to 10 months I did a lot of tube rolling, and over time I ended up wrestling with the fact that as I removed a tube the lifter would become loose as well or sometimes come out (or partially out) with the tube. I remember reading suggestions to slip some dental floss or thread under the lifter or tube to assist but the more I thought about it the less I liked the idea of something that might melt or ignite down in the hole and these sockets are pretty tight so whatever i used it would have to be very strong and then I was concerned about the control over what I was removing as the tube openings are small. Plus, having the pig tales sticking out and laying across the top of the unit was a less than elegant solution / look. The lifters (duh) lift the top of the tube higher above the top surface of the MJ2 making them more of a target.
> 
> I then sat down, took my audi-O-C-D hat off and put on the tin foil one. Knowing Schiiits design mentality from reading the book and their posts, would Schiit design any piece of equipment, tubed or solid state, that they knew would shorten tube or other component life? I've never seen any temperature measurements that might settle the issue one way or the other.A tube can fail or get noisy but will lifters prevent those things from happening?  I tube the MJ2 as designed and stopped stressing over it.
> 
> ...


Thanks FLTWS for the response. I also like the savers because they bring up out of the pit that beautiful amber tube glow.


----------



## ToneDeath

FLTWS said:


> I have these, excellent quality and, I feel, fairly priced. However, for the first 9 to 10 months I did a lot of tube rolling, and over time I ended up wrestling with the fact that as I removed a tube the lifter would become loose as well or sometimes come out (or partially out) with the tube. I remember reading suggestions to slip some dental floss or thread under the lifter or tube to assist but the more I thought about it the less I liked the idea of something that might melt or ignite down in the hole and these sockets are pretty tight so whatever i used it would have to be very strong and then I was concerned about the control over what I was removing as the tube openings are small. Plus, having the pig tales sticking out and laying across the top of the unit was a less than elegant solution / look. The lifters (duh) lift the top of the tube higher above the top surface of the MJ2 making them more of a target.
> 
> I then sat down, took my audi-O-C-D hat off and put on the tin foil one. Knowing Schiiits design mentality from reading the book and their posts, would Schiit design any piece of equipment, tubed or solid state, that they knew would shorten tube or other component life? I've never seen any temperature measurements that might settle the issue one way or the other.A tube can fail or get noisy but will lifters prevent those things from happening?  I tube the MJ2 as designed and stopped stressing over it.
> 
> ...


I see they offer a saver that has a polymer bolt and wing nut that will lock down the saver. That's if you can get to the bottom side of the original ceramic socket and there's a hole going all the way through the socket and PC board. Don't think I'll be trying that anytime soon. Lol.


----------



## ToneDeath

Globox said:


> Well, I agree ! The problem is : Can I remove the back feet and the central screw without making stuff loose in the unit !


Globox, I wondered why Schiit put three feet on my Gungnir MB. So I email them. They responded with "Three feet never rock even on uneven surfaces "


----------



## Globox

ToneDeath said:


> Globox, I wondered why Schiit put three feet on my Gungnir MB. So I email them. They responded with "Three feet never rock even on uneven surfaces "


Thanks. Unfortunatly, I didn't get an answer to my messages. So I guess, I am going to remove the screws I want to and hope I don't do something wrong !


----------



## Argo Duck

ToneDeath said:


> Globox, I wondered why Schiit put three feet on my Gungnir MB. So I email them. They responded with "Three feet never rock even on uneven surfaces "



Generally true. And droll too


----------



## FLTWS (Sep 13, 2017)

ToneDeath said:


> Thanks FLTWS for the response. I also like the savers because they bring up out of the pit that beautiful amber tube glow.



I get the aesthetic appeal angle, I can still remember the hypnotic effect staring into the cage of my ARC SP3A1 preamp had on me back in the 70's, (ooh!,ahh!). But I also note how many small signal tube applications are really buried in the case. Like my old Dynaco PAS 3. And take a look at the iFi Pro iCan, a couple of slits and they lay the tubes on their sides. If memory serves my Marantz Model 7  had perforation holes over the tubes but then they sold a nice looking optional wooden case to slip over it for display that blocked those holes. With small signal tubes the heat issues don't seem as critical as they definitely are with power output tubes.



ToneDeath said:


> I see they offer a saver that has a polymer bolt and wing nut that will lock down the saver. That's if you can get to the bottom side of the original ceramic socket and there's a hole going all the way through the socket and PC board. Don't think I'll be trying that anytime soon. Lol.



With almost 4 years to go on my warranty I won't be taking a peak under the hood either. I'm out of the "fix it till it's broken" phase of my life. But then no need to as Schiit puts board porn pictures on their product pages for the voyeur in me.

Bottom line, I see the lifters as one of the accessories that should be in every tube-o-philes tool box. They are more than just paperweights and not costly.

_Edit: My first successful multi-quote, gonna celebrate and take the rest of the day off!_


----------



## Globox

I got an answer from schiit. For some reason, they did not get my previous emails ! We'll see. By the way, I put my MJ2 on 3 feet only. It is fine like this.


----------



## ToneDeath

Globox said:


> I got an answer from schiit. For some reason, they did not get my previous emails ! We'll see. By the way, I put my MJ2 on 3 feet only. It is fine like this.


Hey Globox, send me your foot and I'll put it on my three footed MJ2. Lol 
My MJ2 just shipped out of Cali, it won't be here in Ohio until next week Tuesday.
Got myTubemonger Tube Savers today. Very nice indeed and fast service.

TD


----------



## Globox

Well, you should contact schiit directly. As I am french living in France, it would cost way too much sending that little piece of schiit !


----------



## ToneDeath

ziis said:


> I see nobody has mentioned Telefunken PCC88 / 7DJ8. Got a pair from upscale because of the intriguing description:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How does this work, aren't your underpowering the tube by 1 volt?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Globox said:


> Well, you should contact schiit directly. As I am french living in France, it would cost way too much sending that little piece of schiit !



it would cost way more to send a big piece of schiit like Yggy!


----------



## Globox

Sure but what is the point with the foot ?


----------



## Gavin C4

Change from stock tubes to electro-harmonix EH 6922 tubes. It seems the mjolnir 2 runs slightly cooler than stock tubes.


----------



## Charente

Funnily enough, I'm finding the same effect with 5670's.


----------



## Wingtip (Sep 19, 2017)

I'd like to hear from anyone who's moved from Mjolnir 1 to Mjolnir 2. 
Was it an upgrade, or just a lateral move to a different sound? 
I'm driving my LCD-3 with a Mjolnir 1 and Gungnir multibit.


----------



## Globox (Sep 19, 2017)

I think, the main point of MJ2 is to be more versatile. It have SE output and RCA output.
It has the possibility to be used with tubes.

But, in fact, they are pretty much the same :
MJ board :





MJ2 board :





They look pretty much the same to me !

edit : There are actually more difference than I thought but still very similar.


----------



## mattking52

ToneDeath said:


> How does this work, aren't your underpowering the tube by 1 volt?



Nope -- you're all good.    The 7DJ8 has a 7V *rated* filament/heater, as opposed to the 6DJ8, which is rated for 6.3V.  The 7DJ8 will run just fine powered from a 6.3V filament supply, and you've actually got some de-rating "headroom" there.

However [hypothetically speaking], if your amp was designed to accept a 7DJ8 and was actually powering that tube position with a 7V filament, you'd have a problem if you installed the 6DJ8 there, since you'd be exceeding the rated filament voltage of the tube.


----------



## winders (Sep 20, 2017)

You guys needs to stop worrying about 7DJ8 and 6DJ8 tubes and hop on the 5670 bandwagon. Pickup a pair of WE 396A or Tung Sol 5670/2C51 tubes, or get some GE 5670 5 Star triple mica tubes and see what you are missing! You will need a pair of 5670 to 6922 adapters too...


----------



## mattking52 (Sep 19, 2017)

winders said:


> You guys needs to stop worrying about 7DJ8 and 6DJ8 tubes and hope on the 5670 bandwagon. Pickup a pair of WE 396A or Tung Sol 5670/2C5 tubes, or get some GE 5670 5 Star triple mica tubes and see what you are missing! You will need a pair of 5670 to 6922 adapters too...




Just got my GE 5670s and the requisite adapters this weekend, actually!  Looking forward to trying them out.  Figured if they are as good as you guys all say, I'll then seek out a cherry pair of Western Electric 396A to add to the collection...


----------



## ToddRaymond

Also, those same 5670 adapters will accept 6N3P-E Reflektors, which to me are an incredible bargain.


----------



## winders

mattking52 said:


> Just got my GE 5670s and the requisite adapters this weekend, actually!  Looking forward to trying them out.  Figured if they are as good as you guys all say, I'll then seek out a cherry pair of Western Electric 396A to add to the collection...



The green GE 5670 tubes with O getters? I am not a fan of those. I much prefer the older D getter version.


----------



## mattking52 (Sep 19, 2017)

winders said:


> The green GE 5670 tubes with O getters? I am not a fan of those. I much prefer the older D getter version.


O-getters.  I wasn't finding any D getters when I was looking on eBay last week, even on the 5-star GEs that I saw.  There were a few early single 5-star tubes (1950s date codes), but I was looking for pairs.

I have no doubt the 5-star GEs are awesome tubes.  One of the best upgrades I ever did in my system was swap in a pair of NOS JAN GE 5-star 5751s (triple mica) into my Conrad-Johnson Premier 11A power amp.  So good.


----------



## Argo Duck

Globox said:


> I think, the main point of MJ2 is to be more versatile. It have SE output and RCA output.
> It has the possibility to be used with tubes.
> 
> But, in fact, they are pretty much the same :
> ...



Have you in fact _heard them_ to conclude they are "pretty much the same" or is this speculation?

I believe it is the sound Wingtip wants to know about...


----------



## Globox (Sep 20, 2017)

Argo Duck said:


> Have you in fact _heard them_ to conclude they are "pretty much the same" or is this speculation?
> 
> I believe it is the sound Wingtip wants to know about...


Nop. I own a MJ2 but I have never heard the 1. And the conclusion is "they are pretty much the same" because they are. They share many components (and that is a fact, not speculation). I never talk about how they sound because I can't as I never heard the MJ1.


----------



## Charente

Perhaps at a component level 'some' similarities... I wouldn't know about that for sure ... The fact that MJ2 allows for tubes makes it significantly different, IMO


----------



## Phantaminum

Looks like I'll be joining the Mjolnir 2 club as my unit should be coming in next Thursday. After reading the Lyr 2 tube rolling thread and about 30 pages of this thread I decided to sit down and ask out right. What tubes would you gentlemen and ladies recommend for an HD650? 

I use the HD650s for Jazz, Acoustic, Vocals, Alternative, and Rock. In the future I'm planning on purchasing one of ZMF's Atticus for EDM and Pop as well as a Hifiman Edition X V2 for my planar. Thanks in advance for any advice!


----------



## FLTWS (Sep 23, 2017)

Phantaminum said:


> Looks like I'll be joining the Mjolnir 2 club as my unit should be coming in next Thursday. After reading the Lyr 2 tube rolling thread and about 30 pages of this thread I decided to sit down and ask out right. What tubes would you gentlemen and ladies recommend for an HD650?
> 
> I use the HD650s for Jazz, Acoustic, Vocals, Alternative, and Rock. In the future I'm planning on purchasing one of ZMF's Atticus for EDM and Pop as well as a Hifiman Edition X V2 for my planar. Thanks in advance for any advice!




*Last year sometime a poster by the name of Rob (Not sure, maybe someone else here will remember his name or handle) did a heroic comparison of 16 different pairs of 6DJ8 / 6922 types. If you can find his post it’s worth a read.*

*How much do you want to spend?*

*I suggest listening to the stock tubes for 30 days, decide what you would like to try and improve on, then shop.*

*I like the 5670W’s for the money versus overall performance; they are what I’m burning presently for the past several weeks in my MJ2. *

*This is my current inventory (All Matched Pairs) , comments are from the respective sellers sites;*

*From Tubemonger *

*2 TUBEMONGER -  Brimar Ediswan ECC88 1960’s: *warm, airy* $84.00 / pr.*

_*From Music Direct*_

*2 iFi GE JAN 5670W Made in USA: *clarity, warmth, bass impact, sound stage A-OK.*  $99/pr.*

_*From Upscale Audio*_

*2 Amperex Jan 7308 Green: *slightly relaxed  top. Smooth, liquid mid-band. Fabulous, slightly full bass. *$258/pr.*

*2 Telefunken ECC88 / 6922: *neutral and beautiful sounding.* $378/pr.*

*2 Siemens A-Frame E88CC / 6922: *dynamic bass and a vivid up-front midrange, looking for  warmth, try the Amperex 7308

                                                                        or Ediswan CV2492 instead. *$200/pr*

*2 Pope PCC88 (Made in Holland): *Phillips brand for sale in S.A.*  $150/pr.*

*2 Tungsram E88CC / 6922:  *SWEET, extended, and stays quiet, Superb detail and dynamics... can lift a veil off your system. Not the

                                                  warmest 6922 so if that's what you're after, check out the Amperex or Ediswan tubes. *$176/pr.*


----------



## TK16

Phantaminum said:


> Looks like I'll be joining the Mjolnir 2 club as my unit should be coming in next Thursday. After reading the Lyr 2 tube rolling thread and about 30 pages of this thread I decided to sit down and ask out right. What tubes would you gentlemen and ladies recommend for an HD650?
> 
> I use the HD650s for Jazz, Acoustic, Vocals, Alternative, and Rock. In the future I'm planning on purchasing one of ZMF's Atticus for EDM and Pop as well as a Hifiman Edition X V2 for my planar. Thanks in advance for any advice!


Need to know what sound sig you are looking for in a tube.
Read this link as to the different 6DJ8 variants and how the different brand/countries house sound sig. 
http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm


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## Phantaminum (Sep 23, 2017)

FLTWS said:


> *Last year sometime a poster by the name of Rob (Not sure, maybe someone else here will remember his name or handle) did a heroic comparison of 16 different pairs of 6DJ8 / 6922 types. If you can find his post it’s worth a read.*
> 
> *How much do you want to spend?*
> 
> ...



The Tungsram E88CC sounds like it will match well with my HD650's and hopefully my future purchases.  Thank you for taking your time typing up a list of tubes and their distinct sound.

Sound signature wise I'm a tiny bit adverse to treble. I do enjoy more mellow music and most of the music I listen to is house, Drum and bass, and edm. I enjoy the heck out of my Jot+HD650 which has addicting mids but looking for more low end.


----------



## FLTWS

Phantaminum said:


> The Tungsram E88CC sounds like it will match well with my HD650's and hopefully my future purchases.  Thank you for taking your time typing up a list of tubes and their distinct sound.
> 
> Sound signature wise I'm a tiny bit adverse to treble. I do enjoy more mellow music and most of the music I listen to is house, Drum and bass, and edm. I enjoy the heck out of my Jot+HD650 which has addicting mids but looking for more low end.



I've been listening with the Jotunheim and Utopia to some early music on period instruments, mostly Pinnock and English Concert on Archiv. Staggeringly life-like. With Simon Standage leading the way they even make that over recorded war horse Vivaldi's 4 Seasons sound fresh and involving. Whoever recorded this group really knew how to capture the warm, woody body and unique high frequency sounds of those period strings without things getting too astringent. Bass from the cellos and basses is full bodied and deep ranging. Of course most period instruments were never designed to plumb the subterranean depths of their modern day counterparts. And the bass capabilities of instruments used in contemporary and popular music of both the analogue and electronic types can be felt as much as heard, 

Monday, (College football today, Pro's tomorrow) I'm going to start a triple flusher comparison with my 3 Schiit HP amps on this music. Small sized chamber groups like this stand a better chance of playback that gives a realistic illusion of the 'live' experience. Large scale works like those of Mahler, Bruckner, Strauss, etc, fail epic-ly on all equipment I've ever heard from expensive HP's to half million dollar 2 channel setups when compared to the live concert hall experience. It's another one of those problems that throwing money at apparently doesn't seem able to solve.


----------



## FLTWS

TK16 said:


> Need to know what sound sig you are looking for in a tube.
> Read this link as to the different 6DJ8 variants and how the different brand/countries house sound sig.
> http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm



That's a lot to digest, thanks, an interesting read.


----------



## Gimpinchair

Will the Mjolnir 2 function with one tube out? I've had my MJ2 only for two weeks, and I have no sound today and it was working yesterday. I hope it's only a tube as I have performed a reset.


----------



## Sergantwhitepepper

Anyone have "issues" with rattling from the amp when its cooling down? Do believe its the tubes, never had this issues with previous tube amps before. Kinda annoying since i sleep in the same room its in


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## FLTWS

No noise here. How long does it go on for? I've never heard a sound out of mine other than the relay to output. No tube noise and no metal contraction sound.


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## Phantaminum (Sep 28, 2017)

Finally came in and spent a few hours listening. Definitely different from my Jotunheim and the first thing that struck me was instruments: Pianos, guitars, and harmonicas come across much more life like. I do enjoy the Tungsram more than the tubes that come with the Mjornil 2. I do have a question - there's a noise that gets more noticeable when you turn up the volume that sounds like wind...is this normal with tube amps?

Edit: Looks like I was getting noise from my power strip. Swapped it out and windy city is gone.


----------



## Rowethren

Phantaminum said:


> Finally came in and spent a few hours listening. Definitely different from my Jotunheim and the first thing that struck me was instruments: Pianos, guitars, and harmonicas come across much more life like. I do enjoy the Tungsram more than the tubes that come with the Mjornil 2. I do have a question - there's a noise that gets more noticeable when you turn up the volume that sounds like wind...is this normal with tube amps?
> 
> Edit: Looks like I was getting noise from my power strip. Swapped it out and windy city is gone.



Glad you found where the problem was. Although tubes generally are more noisy than SS, whether you can hear that difference is another matter.


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## mattking52 (Sep 29, 2017)

Anyone think that a Mjolnir update might be in the cards soon?  I notice Jason didn't include it in his list of amps on which it was difficult to make improvements over the existing design (in his recent Magni 3 post) -- Asgard 2, Valhalla 2, etc.

Been eyeing the Mjolnir for a while, but seeing the incredibly impressive specs for Jotunheim and Magni 3 makes me think that an upgrade for their flagship headphone amplifier (if you don't count Ragnarok) MUST be coming our way...


----------



## Globox (Sep 29, 2017)

Well, if that is the case, I hope they will make an upgrade for MJ2 (like an MJ2 Uber) and not an MJ3 ! We'll see, but I don't expect it yet !
And, well, as far as I know, MJ2 does not have a modular design...


----------



## mattking52

Globox said:


> Well, if that is the case, I hope they will make an upgrade for MJ2 (like an MJ2 Uber) and not an MJ3 ! We'll see, but I don't expect it yet !
> And, well, as far as I know, MJ2 does not have a modular design...



yeah, I was just about to say - if MJ2 had a modular design, this would certainly be a possibility, and I wouldn't have any hesitation about buying now!


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## FLTWS (Sep 29, 2017)

I've never believed in specs nor can I hear / identify them when I listen. Specs are benchmarks from the designer and say to me, "see my numbers, my gear doesn't suck!" In the late 60's early 70's SS specs crushed those of the available tube gear at the time, and SS gear sounded like (put a word from Mike's Dictionary here), when the transistors weren't self destructing. The sound of solid state, just like the sound of digital has come a long way since introduction decades ago.

Note the 3 Schiit HP amps in my sig, I've owned all 3 for the past year and in A-B-C listening tests my take is that the 3 exhibit mostly similarities of sound rather than differences. And those differences are not large at all, I hear them as very small with HP's. There may be synergies that happen with certain other gear in the chain but basically Schiit sounds like Schiit, which means excellent.

I don't hear mountains but mostly molehills. This hobby to me is about the subtleties in the molehills and as such I suffer no angst wondering if what I have is good enough to enjoy as is. But as a hobbyist the quest is on going simply for my enjoyment and to satisfy my curiosity.

But I believe the  aural mountains to be experienced will come in the form of Loki, MP, perhaps a killer cross-feed circuit for us headphone users.


----------



## Phantaminum

Rowethren said:


> Glad you found where the problem was. Although tubes generally are more noisy than SS, whether you can hear that difference is another matter.



Same here. I've never had this issue with my Jot which I found extremely strange and while I was going back and forth between both I started to hear the noise coming from it. The Jot never made any noise when turning up the volume and after a bit of detective work I traced it back to the USB then to the power strip. First times a kicker. In terms of tubes the box they came in has a check mark for burn in. Looks like I don't have to burn them in or is that always something you do with tubes. I guess the last question would be if there's any tube that sounds like the Jot in terms of clarity and mid forward. I have a feeling I'm looking at Holy Grail type of $$$ to get this type of tube.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'm having difficulty imagining what more they could do, other than raise the tube socks so it's easier to change the tubes. Rag obviously needs a remote update, but MJ2 is a pretty well thought out idea. I mean by all means give it a more linear topology, reduce THD, etc, but it has held its own for two years and remains the best sub 1k amp out there.

I think an update to LISST would be more interesting.


----------



## SAndreev

+1 to the above. My thoughts word for word. The only thing I might've added is the switch to mute pre-outs for those who use it as a preamp for speakers as well.


----------



## mattking52

FLTWS said:


> I've never believed in specs nor can I hear / identify them when I listen.
> 
> I don't hear mountains but mostly molehills. This hobby to me is about the subtleties in the molehills and as such I suffer no angst wondering if what I have is good enough to enjoy as is. But as a hobbyist the quest is on going simply for my enjoyment and to satisfy my curiosity.
> 
> But I believe the  aural mountains to be experienced will come in the form of Loki, MP, perhaps a killer cross-feed circuit for us headphone users.



I definitely hear ya!  There's just something inside that always grates at me when I buy something right before an update.  I've demoed the MJ2 at the Schiitr with my LCD-3 HPs (it looked like they had Tungsram 7DJ8s in the amp at that time), and it was a miraculous combo.  I was more worried about any additional features, etc. that might come along, more so than the specs (even though that's what I referenced in my post!  lol).

BUT... as some of you said, I'm having trouble thinking about what exactly those might be. lol.


----------



## ToddRaymond

I'd also be curious to see what a Mjolnir 3 could deliver–not that there's anything particularly lacking with the current version.  I wonder if there'd be room for a relay-switched stepped attenuator?  Some have said that the preamp out leaves quite a bit to be desired, so perhaps that could be improved upon.


----------



## rmoody

Turdski said:


> I'd also be curious to see what a Mjolnir 3 could deliver–not that there's anything particularly lacking with the current version.  I wonder if there'd be room for a relay-switched stepped attenuator?  Some have said that the preamp out leaves quite a bit to be desired, so perhaps that could be improved upon.



My wishes:

Muting preamp out when headphones are connected.
Switch closer to the edge of the case so you can reach it easier.
Externally accessible fuse.

I use powered monitors and one day I turned on my MJ2, loud pop when the relays closed, then nothing. $70+ to ship back. Blown $0.70 fuse. If they were to use the IEC power inlet that the Vidar uses two of the above gripes would be solved as the power switch is on that part and would put it very close to the edge of the case and the fuse is integrated into it as well. Kill two stones with one bird. If the fuse blew again, I would not have to ship it back to fix. Just buy a new fuse (actually, the IEC inlet carries a spare fuse, so buy a replacement spare.)

What if he integrated Loki Mini into the chassis? Could you imagine the heads that would assplode over that? Looking at the CBP (Circuit Board Porn) looks like it might fit. Drill a holes for the pots, some labels, a bypass switch and bam. Probably mount it "upside down" from the existing Loki board to help it fit. MJ3 or MJ2 Uber, just saying.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I think Loki is super awesome, but Schiit shies away from making copier-printer-scanner-faxers all-in-ones. And with good reason. Not everyone wants tone controls. Some people might resent paying for them. Jotunheim was perhaps the exception that proves the rule, and I think they very pointedly did not make a Mjolnunheim. In the larger chassis, people can pay for dedicated components. Besides, if you did want tone controls in MJ2 you would want them balanced, and Loki Maxi is going to be at least the size of Jotunheim, if not Mjolnir itself.

The most meaningful upgrade that I can think of is "Jotunheiming" or "Magni 3-ing" the MJ2 chassis to bring the cost down to $799 or less.


----------



## FLTWS (Sep 29, 2017)

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I think Loki is super awesome, but Schiit shies away from making copier-printer-scanner-faxers all-in-ones. And with good reason. Not everyone wants tone controls. Some people might resent paying for them. Jotunheim was perhaps the exception that proves the rule, and I think they very pointedly did not make a Mjolnunheim. In the larger chassis, people can pay for dedicated components. Besides, if you did want tone controls in MJ2 you would want them balanced, and Loki Maxi is going to be at least the size of Jotunheim, if not Mjolnir itself.
> 
> The most meaningful upgrade that I can think of is "Jotunheiming" or "Magni 3-ing" the MJ2 chassis to bring the cost down to $799 or less.



Bosie, just got mine, you could fit 6 Loki's inside of a Jotunheim case. It fits in the palm of my hand. 5" x 3.5" x 1.25".Looked bigger in the pictures, LOL.


----------



## tjl5709

The past couple pages on this thread are interesting. From what I can tell, all the "wants" seem to revolve around functionality. To me, that's complexity and cost.

Having moved from Lyr > Lyr 2> MJ2 I have to say why all the fuss. This thing rocks.

This is a headphone amp. It has more power and clarity than what most headphones can utilize, and what most can hear.

You are more than welcome to sit on the fence for the next greatest whatever, but if you have good digital files to feed, and a good DAC to convert, this is far enough along the line from an AMP standpoint point.

Are there better. Most likely. At this price point? I doubt it.

Sorry, but if your needs are speaker based I would move on. I know I would.


----------



## rmoody

tjl5709 said:


> Sorry, but if your needs are speaker based I would move on. I know I would.



Powered Monitors Welcome, Too
Magni 3 includes preamp outputs. This means you can connect it to your desktop *powered monitors* for a complete system—or even connect it to a speaker power amp and use it as a preamp. With its built-in time-delayed start-up and instant shut-down, there’ll be no glitches or pops through either headphones or speakers, either.

Serious Power, Gain Switching, Preamp Outputs
Vali delivers 1W into 32 ohms for hard-to-drive headphones—and, at the same time, offers a low gain mode for low-noise performance with sensitive headphones. You can also use the preamp outputs to add a tube preamp to your power amp or *powered monitors*.

Additional Versatility: From IEMs to Orthos to Active Monitors
Asgard 2 offers two gain settings. The low-gain mode is perfect for high-sensitivity IEMs, while the high-gain mode is ideal for most other headphones, up to and including many orthodynamics. In addition, the preamp outputs can easily be connected to *powered speakers*, for a complete desktop system.

A Complete Desktop Preamp
Valhalla 2 also adds two important features: preamp outs and a gain switch. Preamp outs let you connect your *powered monitors* directly to Valhalla 2, to give them some of what some people call “tube magic.” The gain switch gives you better control of both output level and impedance, for better matching to your headphones. It's easy to build a complete desktop system around the Valhalla.

From IEMS and Orthos to Active Monitors
Lyr 2 offers two gain settings. The gain of 1 is good for most sensitive headphones, including efficient on-ear models and many IEMs, while the gain of 8 is ideal for inefficient orthodynamics and high-impedance headphones. In addition, the preamp outputs can easily be connected to *powered speakers*, for a complete desktop system.

Power and Control in Abundance
Mjolnir 2 puts out up to 8W/channel into 32 ohms, but is fully ready for high-sensitivity headphones with switchable gain. Use the standard gain of 8 for hard-to-drive headphones, or switch to a gain of 1 for sensitive on-ear models and IEMs. In addition, Mjolnir 2 also offers both balanced and single-ended input, switchable via the front panel. Want more? How about both balanced and single-ended headphone outputs and balanced and single-ended preamp outputs. Mjolnir also makes a great preamp for your power amps or *powered monitors*.


----------



## Phantaminum

Well-well a much more pleasant change! The Tungsram opened up a bit more and hits almost as fast as my Jot with close to the same clarity but with a much more natural sound. The sound stage is wider but not that wide considering i'm listening on HD650s. The tubes really compliment an unmodded HD650 well.

On the other hand the Tungsram do sound a bit too bright for my TH-X00/E-Mu Teaks depending on the pads.


----------



## Sergantwhitepepper

FLTWS said:


> No noise here. How long does it go on for? I've never heard a sound out of mine other than the relay to output. No tube noise and no metal contraction sound.



Like 3-4 seconds at irregular pace, sometimes just clicking/static noises but most time it sounds like someone is deliberately shaking the whole thing and there is a loose bolt inside. Tried changing the power plug but did nothing. CBA to send it in and wait weeks for it to return, so guess im just unplugging it at night


----------



## Wes Pruett

Globox said:


> I sent an email to Nick on Monday 4th. I did not get an answer so far. So I tried to send a message throw the contact form.



I'm shocked. Haha.


----------



## Phantaminum

Burning in these bad boys. Interestingly enough they give the HD650s a wider sound stage than my Tungsram but the Tungsram are head and above in technicalities, clarity, bass, and smoothness.

Hoping after a week of burning them in they'll open up a bit more.


----------



## Wes Pruett

tjl5709 said:


> The past couple pages on this thread are interesting. From what I can tell, all the "wants" seem to revolve around functionality. To me, that's complexity and cost.
> 
> Having moved from Lyr > Lyr 2> MJ2 I have to say why all the fuss. This thing rocks..



Yes. this thing does ROCK!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'm debating upgrading to WA22.


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I'm debating upgrading to WA22.



That's the one Woo that always catches my attention. The question in my mind is always; are the stock tubes as lack luster as some claim and are the premium tubes the only way to make it listenable as some claim.  Usually the truth of such matters falls somewhere in between the 2 extremes. The 'ne plus ultra' tube sets can push the cost from $2K to $4 or $5K. But it does look sexy with lots of bling-y options for input and output.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

It's certainly audiophile art to a degree, though the balanced operation for under 2k is a decent find. With preowned units, I usually see a handful of audiophile tubes thrown in with the amp itself. Obviously it lacks the power of MJ2, and indeed I am extremely loath to give up any audio component, but especially as a preamp to Panache (awkwardly, via the 1/4 inch headphone jack converted to RCA, the WA22 would be really a gem to possess. Perhaps balanced out to the emotiva active speakers I keep toying with...


----------



## Phantaminum

Has anyone here run a Hifiman Edition X V2 out of a Mjolnir 2? I wanted to know if it distorts because of the low impedance of these headphones and the power the Mjolnir pushes.


----------



## Globox

Never try the Hifiman Edition X V2.
But MJ2 works great with Audeze LCD-X, which have even lower impedance.


----------



## Phantaminum

Globox said:


> Never try the Hifiman Edition X V2.
> But MJ2 works great with Audeze LCD-X, which have even lower impedance.



Thanks for the feedback Globox!


----------



## Globox (Oct 16, 2017)

You are welcome !
I am listening to it right now ! No distortion at all (with 6BZ7 tubes)

edit : By the way, you need to use it at the lower gain in order to not have blank audible noise.


----------



## SAndreev

Phantaminum said:


> Has anyone here run a Hifiman Edition X V2 out of a Mjolnir 2? I wanted to know if it distorts because of the low impedance of these headphones and the power the Mjolnir pushes.



I'm using MJ2 with Denon AH-D7200 which are 25 ohm and are very sensitive (105 dB/mW). I stay around 9 o'clock on the volume at low gain and it is great. I prefer how 7200 sound with LISST more than the tubes, but the difference is miniscule and more a matter of taste.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

MJ2 powers HE-1000 no problem.


----------



## Phantaminum

SAndreev said:


> I'm using MJ2 with Denon AH-D7200 which are 25 ohm and are very sensitive (105 dB/mW). I stay around 9 o'clock on the volume at low gain and it is great. I prefer how 7200 sound with LISST more than the tubes, but the difference is miniscule and more a matter of taste.



I have a pair of E-MU Teaks that sound great on low gain (with the right tubes) single ended and have never had to use the high gain with the HD650s off the balanced end. Power! 

Thank you guys for the feedback. Next step is to buy a balanced cable for all my headphones and I should be set. I feel like there’s a slight difference from the SE compared to the balanced connection.


----------



## SAndreev

Oh, IMO there is significant difference when going balanced with MJ2, especially on HD650s. Once I tried balanced with MJ2, I never want go back to SE.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

As I see it SE is more of a convenience thing than a statement thing. Original MJ didn't have it, and Jason included it here to be more consumer friendly. Balanced only really does put a damper on sales...


----------



## Globox

Phantaminum said:


> I feel like there’s a slight difference from the SE compared to the balanced connection.


Here is the thing : Balanced is much more powerfull and much more silent... Well, at least, that is what Schiit says.
But, balanced connexion is also much more isolated (can I say it like this in english ??). For exemple, when I am connected throw jack output, I have some wierd noices coming randomly from time to time. I thought it was a problem with the MJ2, but I also have the problem with my Myryad preamp (much more audible with the MJ2 so). So I have a problem with my power... Don't know where it comes from, but I have it. Anyways, that problem occures only when using SE output. It never happen with the XLR output.


----------



## Charente

@SAndreev Agree with you regarding the HD650 balanced from MJ2. It may just be the extra power that the 650's need that works for them, although maybe not such a difference with other headphones.


----------



## DrummerLeo

Phantaminum said:


> Has anyone here run a Hifiman Edition X V2 out of a Mjolnir 2? I wanted to know if it distorts because of the low impedance of these headphones and the power the Mjolnir pushes.


Hi, I tried hex v2 on my mj2, it's good but not great, the sound is somehow a little bit veiled and too laid back, the sound stage is wide, but not tall enough, also Mj2 is not very extend in both end, but it's very full bodied and powerful.
I would suggest Pathos Aurium for Hex v2, th900 and LCD-X, actually I prefer LCDX on mj2 over PA slightly.


----------



## Phantaminum

DrummerLeo said:


> Hi, I tried hex v2 on my mj2, it's good but not great, the sound is somehow a little bit veiled and too laid back, the sound stage is wide, but not tall enough, also Mj2 is not very extend in both end, but it's very full bodied and powerful.
> I would suggest Pathos Aurium for Hex v2, th900 and LCD-X, actually I prefer LCDX on mj2 over PA slightly.



I realize that depending on the tubes being used it can definitely sound veiled and you're right when you say that it characteristically has a laid back sound. Roll some GE 5 Stars 5670s and it envelopes you. It adds on to wide sound stage with height. Actually, I enjoy these headphones and the sound is exactly what I was looking for when I purchased the M1060 and modded it. Clear, wide, female vocals to die for but missing that little more sub bass i'm looking for. 

I'm most like going to sell them and look at the Atticus, HD660s, or LCD-2Cs. Not to dissuade anyone who'd like to buy these as they are great headphones and can imagine how they'd sound being pushed by a great DAP.


----------



## Darren G (Oct 26, 2017)

DrummerLeo said:


> Hi, I tried hex v2 on my mj2, it's good but not great, the sound is somehow a little bit veiled and too laid back, the sound stage is wide, but not tall enough, also Mj2 is not very extend in both end, but it's very full bodied and powerful.
> I would suggest Pathos Aurium for Hex v2, th900 and LCD-X, actually I prefer LCDX on mj2 over PA slightly.



The HEX V2 and MJ2 sound pretty good to me with the Genalex Gold Lion E88CC / 6922's.  Still a bit veiled, but those tubes added some enjoyable mid-range attack, and are available for around $45 each.  On the flip side, those tubes make my ears bleed when I plug in the Utopias.

p.s., And agree, the HEX V2's do have a polite laid back sound.


----------



## DrummerLeo

Darren G said:


> The HEX V2 and MJ2 sound pretty good to me with the Genalex Gold Lion E88CC / 6922's.  Still a bit veiled, but those tubes added some enjoyable mid-range attack, and are available for around $45 each.  On the flip side, those tubes make my ears bleed when I plug in the Utopias.
> 
> p.s., And agree, the HEX V2's do have a polite laid back sound.


I'm using JJ E88CC which is sorta better than stock in terms of sound stage, I'm planning to go for a Volvo or Siemens cca.
Any suggestions for tube rolling? 

Also I'm going for Utopias soon, can MJ2 drive them or I need some significant upgrade?


----------



## Darren G

DrummerLeo said:


> Also I'm going for Utopias soon, can MJ2 drive them or I need some significant upgrade?



The Utopia is very efficient, so no worries on the MJ2 driving them.  I wasn't entirely happy with the Utopia and MJ2 though until I tried a pair of (also inexpensive) Tesla 6922's (NOS from the 70s, that have a laid back mid-range, rolled off treble).  I'm completely satisfied now.  Clear, smooth sound, but there is still plenty of the mid-range detail and highs that they do so well, without my feeling overloaded.


----------



## Eldair

Ok so i have this wierd problem. I turn on my MJ2 and then it start to buzz until relay snap then it end. And this only happened with Tesla tubes. When i use original tubes no sound at all. What should i do? Throw those Teslas in trashcan? They sound great thou.
I just wonder what a hell that buzz is.


----------



## Phantaminum

Eldair said:


> Ok so i have this wierd problem. I turn on my MJ2 and then it start to buzz until relay snap then it end. And this only happened with Tesla tubes. When i use original tubes no sound at all. What should i do? Throw those Teslas in trashcan? They sound great thou.
> I just wonder what a hell that buzz is.



My MJ2 does this as well on most of my tubes. Don’t throw the Teslas away. All that matters Is that it’s quiet after the relay snaps.


----------



## Eldair

Ok so it is not dangerous then. I was bit worried cause i´m pretty new with tubes and stock tubes didn´t do that.
Anyone heard any clicks and cracks when MJ2 is turned off? Like i´m coming with coffee in morning to my pc and read some news it sometimes keeps that noise.


----------



## Sergantwhitepepper

Eldair said:


> Ok so it is not dangerous then. I was bit worried cause i´m pretty new with tubes and stock tubes didn´t do that.
> Anyone heard any clicks and cracks when MJ2 is turned off? Like i´m coming with coffee in morning to my pc and read some news it sometimes keeps that noise.



Yeah it used to keep me up at night although it happened often in the beginning when it first arrived but now it rarely happens, really annoying though. It might have something to do with how the power cable is positioned, if there is any strain or weird angles. Or it could be that its cooling down, i still don't get why


----------



## Globox

Hi all !
I was wondering if we can find some green tubes like the McIntosh for our amp !?

Something that would look like this :


----------



## Rowethren

Globox said:


> Hi all !
> I was wondering if we can find some green tubes like the McIntosh for our amp !?
> 
> Something that would look like this :



I could be wrong but I think they are just lit with LEDs from below.


----------



## FLTWS

Rowethren said:


> I could be wrong but I think they are just lit with LEDs from below.


That sounds right.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

you can try adding green food coloring 

or just decorating MJ2 with some artisanally placed limes to accent its svelte, girlish figure


----------



## Globox

Ok thanks everyone. Then I will let it the way it is.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Tried turning my MJ2 on today and it was dead .. switched power cord and outlet source .. still dead .. no LED glowing on front panel ... switched tubes to a different set and still no joy .. 

I’m also using socket savers ... any tricks on getting those out? I want to check all possible points of problem


----------



## rmoody

JerryLeeds said:


> Tried turning my MJ2 on today and it was dead .. switched power cord and outlet source .. still dead .. no LED glowing on front panel ... switched tubes to a different set and still no joy ..
> 
> I’m also using socket savers ... any tricks on getting those out? I want to check all possible points of problem



Wrap some electrical tape around them and sort of spiral out of the case. Pull while rocking back and forth.

Hate to hear your hammer is dead. When mine did this it was the fuse. If it's out of warranty, check that before shipping it to the mother ship. No sense in spending $70+ for a fuse.


----------



## tjl5709

JerryLeeds said:


> Tried turning my MJ2 on today and it was dead .. switched power cord and outlet source .. still dead .. no LED glowing on front panel ... switched tubes to a different set and still no joy ..
> 
> I’m also using socket savers ... any tricks on getting those out? I want to check all possible points of problem



Happened to me earlier this year. Had to send it back. They took care of it no issue.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Unit still under warranty.. RMA issued .. packing up and shipping unit tomorrow 

I got the socket savers out ... they got messed up ... are there taller socket savers that I can get? ( so I can pull them out easier )


----------



## FLTWS (Dec 8, 2017)

JerryLeeds said:


> Unit still under warranty.. RMA issued .. packing up and shipping unit tomorrow
> 
> I got the socket savers out ... they got messed up ... are there taller socket savers that I can get? ( so I can pull them out easier )



None taller that I'm aware of. You could buy 2 more and tape them together, but then you've added 8 more points of contact for a possible issue at some point
bringing the total to to 16.

I stopped using them as every time I went to remove a tube the socket came halfway or all the way out with the tube. here's just not a large enough hole diameter in the MJ2
to maneuver it all for me with my large hands and fingers. I solved it for myself by spending $5.00 to purchase a box of 50 disposable vinyl exam gloves ("powder-free"!!!).
The gloves grip the top of the tubes with more than enough stick-ion to pull the tubes easily with a gentle, slight rotation and patience. Each glove is good for dozens of reuses so its a long term solution for me.

I've then got 8 pins in 8 pin sleeves the way it was designed to be used, instead of another 8 or 16 points of contact.

But that's just my way of doing it.


----------



## Rowethren

Is it bad that I mainly use socket saves to raise the tubes up because they look cool


----------



## FLTWS (Dec 8, 2017)

Rowethren said:


> Is it bad that I mainly use socket saves to raise the tubes up because they look cool



Not at all! I like designs like the Woo's because of all that glowing glass, like I remember when I was a kid. It's an aesthetic thing.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I wonder what the best Woo upgrade from MJ2 would be. I'm on the fence between the WA22 and WA5/LE. New, of course, the prices are laughable, but preowned I could likely get the first for $1400 and the second for $2500. I'm interested principally in the HD600/800 and in achieving more euphony than I get from MJ2. Is the WA5's principal improvement the external power supply?


----------



## FredoIsFishing (Dec 9, 2017)

New guy here. Having spent weeks reading the schiit threads, I've made my choice and pulled the trigger. I have an order in for a Mjolnir 2 and a Gungnir Multibit.

 Mjolnir 2 is on backorder though, from schiit.com:

*"Status: Backordered. Orders placed now estimated to ship the week of December 29th."*

I suck at waiting! Anybody else in the queue?

Fredo


----------



## tjl5709

FredoIsFishing said:


> New guy here. Having spent weeks reading the schiit threads, I've made my choice and pulled the trigger. I have an order in for a Mjolnir 2 and a Gungnir.
> 
> Mjolnir 2 is on backorder though, from schist.com:
> 
> ...



Not sure of the rest of your gear, but if possible obtain a balanced cord for your HP's. When I moved to this kit, I got a balanced cord for my HD650's while waiting for delivery.

It was a mind blowing experience the first time I listened. I had finally learned what a good DAC actually can do and it's impact to the music, and the improvement in clarity of the highs and lows with the MJ2 over my Lyr 2. It's a magical paring.


----------



## FredoIsFishing

tjl5709 said:


> Not sure of the rest of your gear, but if possible obtain a balanced cord for your HP's. When I moved to this kit, I got a balanced cord for my HD650's while waiting for delivery.
> 
> It was a mind blowing experience the first time I listened. I had finally learned what a good DAC actually can do and it's impact to the music, and the improvement in clarity of the highs and lows with the MJ2 over my Lyr 2. It's a magical paring.



Can't wait! Yes, I'm definitely going to need headphones with balanced XLR. Neither of my current pair (Audio-Technica ATH-M50x or Sennheiser Momentum 2) are easily upgraded to balanced so I'm shopping.

I'm leaning toward the higher end Sennheisers that support changing cables between single ended and balanced with no mods.I may end up with the 800 S. It comes with both cables. Not this month though. Spent enough this month already.


----------



## tjl5709

FredoIsFishing said:


> Can't wait! Yes, I'm definitely going to need headphones with balanced XLR. Neither of my current pair (Audio-Technica ATH-M50x or Sennheiser Momentum 2) are easily upgraded to balanced so I'm shopping.
> 
> I'm leaning toward the higher end Sennheisers that support changing cables between single ended and balanced with no mods.I may end up with the 800 S. It comes with both cables. Not this month though. Spent enough this month already.



Well, its a nasty habit once you are on the upgrade train.

After the GMB/MJ2 purchase, my HD650's (open) sounded great, but my maddogs (closed) sounded poor. I upgraded the dogs to Ether C's as I need a closed HP for evenings. The C's where so good over the HD650's, I then "had to" move up. Ended up with HD800s.

Side note; with the new HD660's out, look for a set of used 650's. Should be plenty out there with a reasonable price. They sound great balanced on the kit. Easy to find a balanced cable. Yes, the MJ2 has SE out, but it's designed for balanced. Just saying.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I find hd600 to be the better can for my needs, as well as hd800, though I recognize classical music is different from other genres.


----------



## bzzzt

Considering purchasing an MJ2 to pair with my Gumby. Really attracted to the excellent macrodynamics and slam.

However I'm a little concerned from several comments that the MJ2 doesn't have great extension, particularly in the sub-bass. Is that true? And if I'm looking for an amp to pair with the Gumby that has great slam and excellent extension and soundstage, is there something else I should consider instead?


----------



## Gavin C4 (Dec 10, 2017)

bzzzt said:


> Considering purchasing an MJ2 to pair with my Gumby. Really attracted to the excellent macrodynamics and slam.
> 
> However I'm a little concerned from several comments that the MJ2 doesn't have great extension, particularly in the sub-bass. Is that true? And if I'm looking for an amp to pair with the Gumby that has great slam and excellent extension and soundstage, is there something else I should consider instead?



I don't really own many amps, so I can not confirm if the MJ2 lack sub-bass. I am currently using the mj2 / gungnir MB stack with HE1000 and TH-X00. It definitely gives enough power to the bass department to put a smile on my face. You can also get into tube rolling if you want more bass. I am sure there are some great tubes out there that add great sub bass. Comparing to my other portable DAPS, I dont see any problem with the mj2 / gungnir stack. It is a landslide victory in terms of performance.


----------



## Phantaminum

bzzzt said:


> Considering purchasing an MJ2 to pair with my Gumby. Really attracted to the excellent macrodynamics and slam.
> 
> However I'm a little concerned from several comments that the MJ2 doesn't have great extension, particularly in the sub-bass. Is that true? And if I'm looking for an amp to pair with the Gumby that has great slam and excellent extension and soundstage, is there something else I should consider instead?



I found that subbass is dependent on the tubes on the MJ2. For the 2c51/5670 tubes the WE 5 Star Triple Micas have nice subbass but it’s a little loose. Going from the Seimen’s E88CCs to the Phillips Miniwatts E188CCs there’s a jump in punch and lower end extension.


----------



## FLTWS

Phantaminum said:


> I found that subbass is dependent on the tubes on the MJ2. For the 2c51/5670 tubes the WE 5 Star Triple Micas have nice subbass but it’s a little loose. Going from the Seimen’s E88CCs to the Phillips Miniwatts E188CCs there’s a jump in punch and lower end extension.


I agree, tubes can make a noticeable difference in the sound.


----------



## bzzzt

Okay thanks, sounds like the MJ2 is still a good option as long as it is possible to get good extension, even if it means I must try out different tubes to do so. I'm not really sure I will enjoy tube rolling but I suppose in the end it will be worth it!


----------



## TK16

Tube rolling can be highly addictive and expensive buying 6922 variants. With a pair of socket savers and a pair of adapters you can get really good tubes and they are not that expensive.


----------



## Rowethren

Honestly just get some 5670s and be done with it. They are cheaper, easier to find and sound pretty damn good.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff (Dec 11, 2017)

LISSTs make an excellent palate cleanser between tubes. But if you're really worried, get Jotunada for less than half the price.

But I'd lean MJ2.


----------



## bzzzt

Thanks for the advice! I also strongly considered a Freya+Jot combo, which might have been awesome, but I'll probably never know, since I just placed the order for an MJ2 instead. Currently waiting in the backorder queue.


----------



## xenithon

Out of interest, would you say the potentially weak sub-bass is purely due to tube choice or an inherent part of the amp's sound signature, accentuated by the tubes? That is, relative to something like an OTL amp (paired with high impedance headphones) is the Mjolnir 2 "bass light"?


----------



## Rowethren

I can't say that I ever really found a lack of sub bass even with the LISST I do much prefer the sound overall with my iFi 6922 though.


----------



## ToTo Man (Dec 15, 2017)

Trying to decide whether to buy Jotunheim or Mjolnir 2 for my HD600, HD800S and Utopia.

Advantage of Jot is I don't need to worry about power cycling or leaving it on unattended, so I can either switch it on and off as and when I need to listen on HPs, or if I know I'm going to be using HPs several times that day I can just leave the amp on all day and not worry about the risk of electrical fault.  Disadvantage of Jot is it sounds a bit flat and sterile to my ears.

Advantage of Mjolnir 2 is it's a more engaging listen with better 3D soundstaging.  Disadvantage is it runs hot, so I wouldn't want to leave it on unattended, and being a tube amp I also wouldn't want to power cycle it multiple times a day.

If I decide to go for Mjolnir 2, would it dangerous to put it in my wooden hifi rack shown in the pic below?  It would sit on the top shelf (displacing the Mac Mini and Bifrost) on top of a granite tile, with approximately 6 inches gap between the tubes and the top of the cabinet.


----------



## FLTWS

ToTo Man said:


> Trying to decide whether to buy Jotunheim or Mjolnir 2 for my HD600, HD800S and Utopia.
> 
> Advantage of Jot is I don't need to worry about power cycling or leaving it on unattended, so I can either switch it on and off as and when I need to listen on HPs, or if I know I'm going to be using HPs several times that day I can just leave the amp on all day and not worry about the risk of electrical fault.  Disadvantage of Jot is it sounds a bit flat and sterile to my ears.
> 
> ...



I think you've answered your own question. What's more important? Heat dissipation or sound quality?
Plus, that top shelf with 6" above the tubes should be more than adequate and the shelf is fully open in the front and rear. 
These are small signal not power tubes. Contact Nick T at tech@schiit.com for your final answer and piece of mind.
I own all 3 of those phones, my personal preference is for the MJ2 with the right tubes, over Jot.


----------



## TK16

wrong thread, sorry.


----------



## FredoIsFishing

bzzzt said:


> Thanks for the advice! I also strongly considered a Freya+Jot combo, which might have been awesome, but I'll probably never know, since I just placed the order for an MJ2 instead. Currently waiting in the backorder queue.



I've been in the queue since Nov. 30. At that time it was: 
*
"Status: Backordered. Orders placed now estimated to ship the week of December 29th."*

I just checked, now it says:

*"Status: Backordered. Orders placed now estimated to ship the week of January 19th."
*
No big deal, though it would have been nice to get email alerting me.


----------



## SAndreev

Getting a pair of iFi 6922 for New Year, really excited to compare them to my current Siemens E188CC that I enjoy most of the time now. Has anyone tried iFi tubes in MJ2 yet?


----------



## Rowethren

SAndreev said:


> Getting a pair of iFi 6922 for New Year, really excited to compare them to my current Siemens E188CC that I enjoy most of the time now. Has anyone tried iFi tubes in MJ2 yet?



I have had them in my MJ2 for almost a year now and they are pretty great. Pretty much a good all rounder.


----------



## SAndreev

ToTo Man said:


> Disadvantage is it runs hot, so I wouldn't want to leave it on unattended, and being a tube amp I also wouldn't want to power cycle it multiple times a day.



It runs hot, but not too hot, I wouldn't worry in your place. You don't have to power cycle it multiple times per day. I usually turn it on when I come home, and turn it off when I go to bed, and all is fine.

Nice gear BTW!


----------



## JerryLeeds

Woohoo ... just got a notice that my MJ2’s repairs have been completed and that it is being sent back. I got it in May and the day before my xmas holiday vacation it went dead and would not turn on. I just sent a follow up email to find out the exact problem/fix. Lucky I took advantage of holiday pricing for a Vioelectric V280 else this would have been a bummed out vacation. Things are sounding very nice after burn in, nice compliment to my MJ2. Going to be using ZMF Eikon’s with the V280 & ZMF Atticus with the MJ2. Also, ordered a balanced switch from MapleTreeAudio ... I’m done now with equipment... my future funds will be devoted to increase my music library 

Happy New Year everyone


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Just ordered (today) the Mjolnir 2 at the recommendation of Grado Labs, to drive my new balanced Grados (PS2000e and GS2000e).

Anyone have any info on how the Mjolnir 2 performs driving the HiFiMAN HE1000?  Is it better or worse than the HiFiMAN EF-6 that they designed for their hard-to-drive HE-6 headphones for the HE1000?

Thanks!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

EF-6 is a mediocre amp; it's powerful but not speaker powerful, as well as strident and unrefined. It led to my mediocre first impressions on Susvara. (Which I continue to believe is worth perhaps a third or half of its MSRP.) MJ2 powers he1k with power to spare. I have used it satisfactorily with HE-6 and K1000, though obviously my Panache powers them even better.


----------



## eee1111

ruthieandjohn said:


> Just ordered (today) the Mjolnir 2 at the recommendation of Grado Labs, to drive my new balanced Grados (PS2000e and GS2000e).
> 
> Anyone have any info on how the Mjolnir 2 performs driving the HiFiMAN HE1000?  Is it better or worse than the HiFiMAN EF-6 that they designed for their hard-to-drive HE-6 headphones for the HE1000?
> 
> Thanks!



I have the HEKv2....they are good with each other
tube rolling is fun....I wouldn't suggest the solid state or generic tubes with the MJ2


----------



## hikaru12

How would people rate the Mjolnir with the Atticus? I'd be upgrading from a Mimby/Valhalla 2 combo with JJ tubes.


----------



## bzzzt

I don’t know about the Atticus, but it sounded great with my Coco Eikons with both tubes and LISST. The Eikons are super smooth and the sense of macrodynamics from the mj2 was a great compliment. I liked the pairing better with LISST than with most tubes, but the very best tubes I listened with were superior to LISST. Still even with LISST I would be totally satisfied with the pairing.


----------



## hikaru12

bzzzt said:


> I don’t know about the Atticus, but it sounded great with my Coco Eikons with both tubes and LISST. The Eikons are super smooth and the sense of macrodynamics from the mj2 was a great compliment. I liked the pairing better with LISST than with most tubes, but the very best tubes I listened with were superior to LISST. Still even with LISST I would be totally satisfied with the pairing.



Thanks for your impressions. I'm looking for an upgrade path for my 650s/Atticus and was wondering if the increase in resolution and power would better help with detail resolution while still maintaining the warm musicality which made me these my favorite cans. I was thinking about getting some Miniwatts which should go a long way to improving the sound in all aspects (soundstage, detail, clarity, etc.)


----------



## bzzzt

hikaru12 said:


> Thanks for your impressions. I'm looking for an upgrade path for my 650s/Atticus and was wondering if the increase in resolution and power would better help with detail resolution while still maintaining the warm musicality which made me these my favorite cans. I was thinking about getting some Miniwatts which should go a long way to improving the sound in all aspects (soundstage, detail, clarity, etc.)



Absolutely yes, the mj2 has power to spare, and while not the most resolving, analytical amp I have heard, it is will make those ZMF sing. Warm and musical is a great way to describe the pairing. While LISST sounded just a bit harsher on some bright cans, I found the smoothness and warmth of the ZMF to take the edge off but let all the resolution through very nicely. For comparison, I preferred most tubes to LISST with my TH900, but the opposite was true with the ZMF. And I felt the ZMF pairing was better (though I did enjoy both).


----------



## iamjaymo (May 10, 2018)

I have been through the entirety of this thread and while overall I see many positive comments regarding the clarity, separation and crispness of the MJ2, I don’t see a whole lot of comments regarding the bass, slam or low-end capabilities of the amp. Clearly, I may have simply missed these comments...it’s a long thread!

I am looking hard at the MJ2 to pair with balanced headphones and I want to be sure as to it’s bass capabilities. My little AGD R2R 11 has a very nice low-end “grunt” and “slam” and I really enjoy, especially when paired with my Purple Hearts.

Can you owners please comment on the above? I once owned the Lyr years ago and got rid of it as I felt it was very light sounding even with many tubes tried.

I just cannot, and will not, deal with any brightness in my amps as it just pierces my brain after a short time.


----------



## Charente

iamjaymo said:


> I have been through the entirety of this thread and while overall I see many positive comments regarding the clarity, separation and crispness of the MJ2, I don’t see a whole lot of comments regarding the bass, slam or low-end capabilities of the amp. Clearly, I may have simply missed these comments...it’s a long thread!
> 
> I am looking hard at the MJ2 to pair with balanced headphones and I want to be sure as to it’s bass capabilities. My little AGD R2R 11 has a very nice low-end “grunt” and “slam” and I really enjoy, especially when paired with my Purple Hearts.
> 
> ...



Depending on your headphones and to some extent the tubes you'll be using, I don't believe that you would be disappointed with the quality of the bass out of the MJ2, SE or balanced. As a bass guitarist I do look for clear, punchy and articulate bass and drum lines, and I achieve that with my pairings. I can recommend MrSpeakers Aeon Flow Open headphones with this amp, which deliver what I look for. MJ2 is a different beast from the LYR 2, which I also have ... more power giving more heft and control.


----------



## iamjaymo

Charente said:


> Depending on your headphones and to some extent the tubes you'll be using, I don't believe that you would be disappointed with the quality of the bass out of the MJ2, SE or balanced. As a bass guitarist I do look for clear, punchy and articulate bass and drum lines, and I achieve that with my pairings. I can recommend MrSpeakers Aeon Flow Open headphones with this amp, which deliver what I look for. MJ2 is a different beast from the LYR 2, which I also have ... more power giving more heft and control.



Great, thanks for the reply. I should have added I had the Asgard and Valhalla also and I found all of them to be a bit bright and not possessing the heft I was looking for. Guess I assumed the Schiit “house” sound was more about clarity, staging and resolution. Those Schiit amps I had in the past did all sound good but I felt was missing the solidity for a good foundation. I realize the MJ should be a different beast considering the price and power but I’m still a bit nervous.


----------



## Charente

@iamjaymo ... I would add that I consider the MJ2 to be slightly warmish and not bright to my ears.


----------



## iamjaymo

Yes, warmish...definitely what I am looking for! Thanks.


----------



## Phantaminum

hikaru12 said:


> Thanks for your impressions. I'm looking for an upgrade path for my 650s/Atticus and was wondering if the increase in resolution and power would better help with detail resolution while still maintaining the warm musicality which made me these my favorite cans. I was thinking about getting some Miniwatts which should go a long way to improving the sound in all aspects (soundstage, detail, clarity, etc.)



The Phillips Miniwatts E188CCs are a terrific pairing with ZMF's Atticus. The tubes give the Atticus some serious punch in the mids, a nice low end, while still being resolving. The cheaper versions of these would be the WE Triple Mica 5 Stars 2C51s but you lose some instrument separation and the low end can be wooly. Which is reflected in the price of both tubes.



iamjaymo said:


> I have been through the entirety of this thread and while overall I see many positive comments regarding the clarity, separation and crispness of the MJ2, I don’t see a whole lot of comments regarding the bass, slam or low-end capabilities of the amp. Clearly, I may have simply missed these comments...it’s a long thread!
> 
> I am looking hard at the MJ2 to pair with balanced headphones and I want to be sure as to it’s bass capabilities. My little AGD R2R 11 has a very nice low-end “grunt” and “slam” and I really enjoy, especially when paired with my Purple Hearts.
> 
> ...



Out of the box with the default tubes or LISST, you won't get the low end grunt (possibly from the LISST) coming from a solid state. Other Head-Fiers have experienced a bright/brittle sound using the default tubes. 

The magic happens when you start to roll tubes. Some tubes will give you that nice low end thump, some tubes will give you hauntingly beautiful mid vocals, others will almost have a solid state transient attack, and others will have a dark but enveloping 3D sound. The amp gives you the flexibility to find a suitable sound for most, if not all, headphones via tubes. You'll have to spend more to purchase the extra tubes but to me it's worth it.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Ragnarok is another great choice.


----------



## Ragnar-BY

JerryLeeds said:


> Woohoo ... just got a notice that my MJ2’s repairs have been completed and that it is being sent back. I got it in May and the day before my xmas holiday vacation it went dead and would not turn on. I just sent a follow up email to find out the exact problem/fix. Lucky I took advantage of holiday pricing for a Vioelectric V280 else this would have been a bummed out vacation. Things are sounding very nice after burn in, nice compliment to my MJ2. Going to be using ZMF Eikon’s with the V280 & ZMF Atticus with the MJ2. Also, ordered a balanced switch from MapleTreeAudio ... I’m done now with equipment... my future funds will be devoted to increase my music library
> 
> Happy New Year everyone


Can you share any impressions of how V280 compares to MJ2? Any difference in dynamics between those two?


----------



## JerryLeeds

Ragnar-BY said:


> Can you share any impressions of how V280 compares to MJ2? Any difference in dynamics between those two?



I just hooked up the fixed unit. They replaced the fuse and two other components 'C117 & C217' (whatever they are) .. they also adjusted the bias.

I just put in a set of ifi 6922 for the first time 

I would tell you the difference if I could but I don't know the audiophile terms well enough to provide the info you are seeking ... I know they are different and I like each of them


----------



## Ragnar-BY

JerryLeeds said:


> I would tell you the difference if I could but I don't know the audiophile terms well enough to provide the info you are seeking ... I know they are different and I like each of them


Usually, everybody loves to brag about sound at audio forums 

Well, can you say if one seems more fast and energetic, or if one produces more sharp, crisp sound? You know, when we hear a sound of guitar string, sometimes it could have a sharp initial part, like you are feeling "edges" of sound. Have you experienced anything like this, comparing those two amps?


----------



## JerryLeeds

Ragnar-BY said:


> Usually, everybody loves to brag about sound at audio forums
> 
> Well, can you say if one seems more fast and energetic, or if one produces more sharp, crisp sound? You know, when we hear a sound of guitar string, sometimes it could have a sharp initial part, like you are feeling "edges" of sound. Have you experienced anything like this, comparing those two amps?



The volume pot on the V280 is better ... I hear the loudness levels on the MJ changing at different rates left vs right.

I might have to send the MJ2 in again because the left channel appears to be at a lower volume ... I'll need to do more testing. 

I think the V280 is more wider sounding and clearer ... But that could be the tubes in the MJ2.

If you want to 'not' deal with tubes then I would suggest getting the V280 (especially on a holiday sale like I did) ....

Once you get either at home by itself you will not know the difference without having something to compare them too .... Again I don't know how to write down what I hear in an 'audiophile' fashion ... Sorry for being stupid or not having a good ear ... 

When starting this hobby I set a budget for a headphone amp at no more than $1500 knowing that anything more expensive would not be worth it since I would not hear a difference


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

V280 is what, twice the price of MJ2? For that price, get the Rag, forget about tube issues, and merry xmas you have a free speaker amp as well


----------



## Ragnar-BY

JerryLeeds said:


> Once you get either at home by itself you will not know the difference without having something to compare them too .... Again I don't know how to write down what I hear in an 'audiophile' fashion ... Sorry for being stupid or not having a good ear ...


No problem. Thank you, anyway. The thing is, that I already have V200 (its single ended output is the same as V280). Just want to try another amp, looking for more aggressive and forward sound. I like the V200, it`s a great amp, just want to try different sound signature.


----------



## Ragnar-BY

bosiemoncrieff said:


> V280 is what, twice the price of MJ2? For that price, get the Rag, forget about tube issues, and merry xmas you have a free speaker amp as well


I don`t know how good the Rag is with headphones, but this speaker amp is mostly useless. For my table I have active speakers (and most of people would have active also), for big floor-standing speakers Rag is weak. I like Schiit in general, but Ragnarok does not look interesting.


----------



## JerryLeeds (Jan 15, 2018)

I use both the MJ2 and V280 in balanced mode

The MJ2 issues with the left channel are due to the volume pot ..  once set at a proper level both right and left channels share the same volume level

I would upgrade to the V280 if you are able to do a fully balanced setup ... It is a bit better

I have both amps because I wanted to try tubes ... There is a difference but if you are going to have just one balanced amp then the V280 or V281 would be an end game


----------



## Ragnar-BY

JerryLeeds said:


> I would upgrade to the V280 if you are able to do a fully balanced setup ... It is a bit better


Do you use a balanced source for V280?


----------



## FredoIsFishing

Backorders have slipped again according
'Status: Backordered. Orders placed now are expected to ship the week of February 15th.'


FredoIsFishing said:


> I've been in the queue since Nov. 30. At that time it was:
> *
> "Status: Backordered. Orders placed now estimated to ship the week of December 29th."*
> 
> ...



Anyone else waiting for this amp? The estimated shipping date has slipped again:

*"Status: Backordered. Orders placed now are expected to ship the week of February 15th"*


----------



## Ragnar-BY

Maybe it`s Mjolnir 3 on the way. It would make sense to update Mjolnir with Schiit new topology.


----------



## Bob Foster

FredoIsFishing said:


> Backorders have slipped again according
> 'Status: Backordered. Orders placed now are expected to ship the week of February 15th.'
> 
> 
> ...


Exact same for me but another month is no big deal.  I made it this far in life without one.  If you've been reading the Schiit story you probably can appreciate what these guys might be going through.  Looks like growing pains to me.  By all indications they're a stand up company.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

BUMMER!!!!!!  I bought both the balanced Gungir Multibit DAC and Mjolnir 2 as an ensemble for my 2 newly-purchased balanced Grado headphones (GS2000e and PS2000e for you Gradophiles).  I got the Gungir about 10 days ago, and got an estimated delivery date of the Mjolnir2 of “week of January 19,” which is this Friday.

Since I wanted to try them together, when I found that I would not have BOTH until after the 15 day return period had expired on my Gungir, I asked Schiit to extend the return period to 15 days after I had received the Mjolnir.  They said that as a courtesy, they would, and they asked that I inform them when my Mjolnir arrived.

So the wait might extend (or instead, it might just extend for those ordering the Mjolnir NOW, not last Dec. 27, when I ordered mine.)  Besides, Schiit was extremely ethical by NOT charging my credit card yet for the Mjolnir.  Sure, that is what they are supposed to do, i.e.  not charge until shipping, but so many people charge right away when the order is placed.


----------



## SaddleSC (Jan 16, 2018)

Ragnar-BY said:


> No problem. Thank you, anyway. The thing is, that I already have V200 (its single ended output is the same as V280). Just want to try another amp, *looking for more aggressive and forward sound*. I like the V200, it`s a great amp, just want to try different sound signature.



I think the V280 will give you exactly what you are looking for...if you can swing the extra $$ over the Mjolnir2, you will NOT regret it. I have the V281 and it is a monster when it is running balanced. It has twice the power and the sound signature is more detailed, energetic and extends both in the highs and lows much more than the V200 (which sounds much like running the V280/V281 in single-ended configuration).

The Mjolnir 2 is a fantastic amp, and a real "bargain" at $850, but I find my V281 to be the better amp for most use cases and it is the one I listen to the most by a large margin.


----------



## FredoIsFishing

Bob Foster said:


> Exact same for me but another month is no big deal.  I made it this far in life without one.  If you've been reading the Schiit story you probably can appreciate what these guys might be going through.  Looks like growing pains to me.  By all indications they're a stand up company.



I'm with you, Bob. I have no amp emergency here. No problem waiting. It's nice to have company during the wait.


----------



## Ragnar-BY

SaddleSC said:


> I think the V280 will give you exactly what you are looking for...if you can swing the extra $$ over the Mjolnir2, you will NOT regret it. I have the V281 and it is a monster when it is running balanced. It has twice the power and the sound signature is more detailed, energetic and extends both in the highs and lows much more than the V200 (which sounds much like running the V280/V281 in single-ended configuration).
> 
> The Mjolnir 2 is a fantastic amp, and a real "bargain" at $850, but I find my V281 to be the better amp for most use cases and it is the one I listen to the most by a large margin.


Thank you. I`ve never thought about changing my Violectric for another Violectric. That might be interesting. I have not expected that much difference between single ended and balanced outputs.


----------



## kodger

I have been waiting for my Mjolnir 2 since October - I hope whatever supply/ manufacturing issues they have get resolved soon


----------



## FredoIsFishing (Jan 17, 2018)

kodger said:


> I have been waiting for my Mjolnir 2 since October - I hope whatever supply/ manufacturing issues they have get resolved soon



I've been waiting for my Mjolnir 2 order since Nov. 30. Patience is virtue.


----------



## goldsgym

Hey all, I'm new to the thread, but I recently placed an order for MJ2 + Gumby as well. I had no idea that Schiit has had the MJ2 on backorder since October! Congrats to you all for being so patient, I don't know if I could do that haha. I am highly anticipating receiving these two items, as I currently have a Jotunheim with the built-in DAC. It's a bit on the bright side for my HD 800 (S model), so I'm hoping that the new setup will be the perfect complement to these phones.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

it'll be a fantastic pairing. Multibit is required for the HD800 series, and the forthcoming gadget is recommendable.


----------



## TK16

Had to wait about 6 weeks lat year for my MJ2 as well last year.


----------



## goldsgym

bosiemoncrieff said:


> it'll be a fantastic pairing. Multibit is required for the HD800 series, and the forthcoming gadget is recommendable.


Do you have any tube recommendations? I've heard tons on the Amperex Orange Globe tubes, and a little on the new production Gold Lions.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

iFi are the sexy choice, if memory serves. The thread occasionally has tube recommendation orgies, so search it for that. I have '68 orange globes, and find them fantastic. '75 Reflektor are also very fashionable. I recommend having LISST on hand the way you have ginger at a sushi restaurant. It cleanses the palate and resets your ears. It represents "pure" MJ2; all tubes turn the amp toward their own character, but make it hard to talk about the amp in isolation.


----------



## goldsgym

bosiemoncrieff said:


> iFi are the sexy choice, if memory serves. The thread occasionally has tube recommendation orgies, so search it for that. I have '68 orange globes, and find them fantastic. '75 Reflektor are also very fashionable. I recommend having LISST on hand the way you have ginger at a sushi restaurant. It cleanses the palate and resets your ears. It represents "pure" MJ2; all tubes turn the amp toward their own character, but make it hard to talk about the amp in isolation.


Very nice, thank you for the recommendations. I'll definitely check into the thread for further tube talk. I like your sushi restaurant analogy, that's fantastic. I am also curious as to how you think the MJ2 + Gumby will sound compared to the Jotunheim with built-in DAC. That's what I'm using now, but it's much too bright on certain tracks. Will the MJ2 (with tubes, not LISST tubes) tone down the brightness just a tad?


----------



## goldsgym

bosiemoncrieff said:


> iFi are the sexy choice, if memory serves. The thread occasionally has tube recommendation orgies, so search it for that. I have '68 orange globes, and find them fantastic. '75 Reflektor are also very fashionable. I recommend having LISST on hand the way you have ginger at a sushi restaurant. It cleanses the palate and resets your ears. It represents "pure" MJ2; all tubes turn the amp toward their own character, but make it hard to talk about the amp in isolation.


I would also be curious to know what a fair price to pay for the iFi tubes would be. Thank you


----------



## goldsgym

Well, I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the iFi tubes. They go for $99 for a matched pair on Amazon, so I went ahead and ordered them. Supposedly very lush and full midrange and increased depth of the soundstage. Will be very interesting to see how they turn out. As for the MJ2 + Gumby, it is going to be difficult to have to wait for another month for them to show up!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

That's what they usually cost. Also, feel free to edit your posts to include further thoughts rather than posting three times in a row.


----------



## FredoIsFishing

goldsgym said:


> Well, I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the iFi tubes. They go for $99 for a matched pair on Amazon, so I went ahead and ordered them. Supposedly very lush and full midrange and increased depth of the soundstage. Will be very interesting to see how they turn out. As for the MJ2 + Gumby, it is going to be difficult to have to wait for another month for them to show up!



It's getting harder and harder to wait! I catch myself eyeing a few other options while I'm waiting.


----------



## goldsgym

FredoIsFishing said:


> It's getting harder and harder to wait! I catch myself eyeing a few other options while I'm waiting.


I do the same thing. But you know what they say. Anything worth having takes time and patience


----------



## Naugrim

SaddleSC said:


> I think the V280 will give you exactly what you are looking for...if you can swing the extra $$ over the Mjolnir2, you will NOT regret it. I have the V281 and it is a monster when it is running balanced. It has twice the power and the sound signature is more detailed, energetic and extends both in the highs and lows much more than the V200 (which sounds much like running the V280/V281 in single-ended configuration).
> 
> The Mjolnir 2 is a fantastic amp, and a real "bargain" at $850, but I find my V281 to be the better amp for most use cases and it is the one I listen to the most by a large margin.



I just ordered the Ayre Codex DAC/Amp to replace my Gumby/Mj2 I purchased last year.  But I was concerned about power and being able to control the outputs.  The V281 looks like it will solve all my problems while still being more of a desktop sized solution.  Would you agree?  If so my Schiit stack is going up for sale....


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I keep being tempted by Gumby, but then realize what I really need is Yggy. It's a bad cycle.


----------



## Naugrim

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I keep being tempted by Gumby, but then realize what I really need is Yggy. It's a bad cycle.


What you really need is this...


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

shhhhh my wallet might hear you


----------



## ruthieandjohn

WAHHHHH!

I.
Want!
My!
MJOLNIR 2!

 

I ordered it Dec. 27, just after Schiit extended the delivery estimate of the MJ2 from week of Dec 29 to the week of January 19.   Now they estimate starting delivery week of February 15.   I find that some are still waiting on orders placed in OCTOBER.

NOT FAIR!  I want mine NOW! I’m gonna Hold My Breath until I get it!


----------



## FLTWS

Has there been any comment from Schiit on why the hold up? Parts supply issue or problem with a run of say something like boards would make the most sense but, kinda surprising given that all the rest of the product line (as far as I know) seems to be flowing out the door.
Or maybe an upgrade of some sort still being tested and they don't want to hear the schiit from buyers who take delivery of the old (and "truly" "obsolete")  MJ2 and a short time later find out about the new and improved MJ2+?
The growing pains of success?


----------



## goldsgym

FLTWS said:


> Has there been any comment from Schiit on why the hold up? Parts supply issue or problem with a run of say something like boards would make the most sense but, kinda surprising given that all the rest of the product line (as far as I know) seems to be flowing out the door.
> Or maybe an upgrade of some sort still being tested and they don't want to hear the schiit from buyers who take delivery of the old (and "truly" "obsolete")  MJ2 and a short time later find out about the new and improved MJ2+?
> The growing pains of success?


I received an email from Schiit saying that, due to current part projections, MJ2 is expected to ship by the end of February.


----------



## kodger

Thanks


----------



## goldsgym

Ah, long wait for the MJ2 is killing me. While we're all waiting, can you all chime in on which setup you prefer and why: Gumby/MJ2 or Ygg/MJ2. I'm bouncing back and forth on trying to decide which DAC to go with. This will most likely be the last headphone setup that I purchase, at least for a long time to come, so I want to do it right. Thanks


----------



## FLTWS (Jan 22, 2018)

If the Yggy is within reach financially I'd just buy the new upgraded version and  be done. The most direct route to the top is usually the most cost effective in the long run as well. Had I bought a Gumby first Yggy would have continued to be a "I wonder if..."


----------



## goldsgym

FLTWS said:


> If the Yggy is within reach financially I'd just buy the new upgraded version and  be done. The most direct route to the top is usually the most cost effective in the long run as well. Had I bought a Gumby first Yggy would have continued to be a "I wonder if..."


Have you personally listened to both combinations though? I have the HD 800 S  and just want the best possible combination for that headphone


----------



## FLTWS

No, I did not listen to Gumby. I did not expect the Yggy to sound less good than the Gumby and the cost difference was not an issue for me. If the price is of consequence then you should audition both and decide for yourself. The Yggy sounds just fine with any of my 3 HP amps and any of my 3 TOTL phones.


----------



## bzzzt

goldsgym said:


> Have you personally listened to both combinations though? I have the HD 800 S  and just want the best possible combination for that headphone



I would break it down this way:

First a caveat - I have not heard the new analog 2 Yggy, could be a game changer but no idea.

When we are talking about the differences between high quality DACs like this, especially using very similar tech, we are talking about a small difference in absolute terms, maybe like 5%. This is of course subjective.

Having heard both, I would say yes, the Yggy is better. However this is with critical listening. If you are looking for the absolute best, get the (I’d guess upgraded analog 2) Yggy and don’t look back.

The only exceptions to this are if (a) you are not a very critical listener or (b) you may be one of the people that hears the Yggy as too analytical and the Gumby as slightly more relaxed. I am not one of those people so can’t help you there, only your ears will know.

I can tell you that I love my Gumby and I probably will someday upgrade but not because I am in any way unsatisfied with its performance. For now with the Mjo2 I opt for the Gumby in part for aesthetics of the stack. I just enjoy the music and don’t really sweat the small performance gains.


----------



## goldsgym

Thank you so much for the quick replies. This information is very helpful. Does anyone have any other amp recommendations for HD 800 S besides MJ2 with the Yggdrasil? I really want this to be my end game set up. Thanks.


----------



## ToTo Man

goldsgym said:


> Thank you so much for the quick replies. This information is very helpful. Does anyone have any other amp recommendations for HD 800 S besides MJ2 with the Yggdrasil? I really want this to be my end game set up. Thanks.


I'm in the same situation.  Having just recently purchased a Yggy I'm trying to decide between MJ2 and Ragnarok for my HD800S, so would love to hear from someone who has compared these two amps through HD800S.


----------



## FredoIsFishing

goldsgym said:


> Thank you so much for the quick replies. This information is very helpful. Does anyone have any other amp recommendations for HD 800 S besides MJ2 with the Yggdrasil? I really want this to be my end game set up. Thanks.



I'm in a similar situation. I have the HD 800 S in my hot little hands. Pretty much decided on MJ2 and debating on which Schiit DAC to use with it. Leaning toward Gumby.

In the mean time I'm listening to it using a Denon AVR. (Sounds great to me.).


----------



## SaddleSC

goldsgym said:


> Thank you so much for the quick replies. This information is very helpful. Does anyone have any other amp recommendations for HD 800 S besides MJ2 with the Yggdrasil? I really want this to be my end game set up. Thanks.



My preferred setup for the HD800S is the Gumby (Gen 5 USB) + Violectric V281 running balanced. In SE mode, the Violectric amps sound clean, but pretty mainstream, but in balanced mode, I find this setup to be sublime.



FredoIsFishing said:


> I'm in a similar situation. I have the HD 800 S in my hot little hands. Pretty much decided on MJ2 and debating on which Schiit DAC to use with it. Leaning toward Gumby.
> 
> In the mean time I'm listening to it using a Denon AVR. (Sounds great to me.).



I have the Gumby (Gen 5 USB) and have also auditioned the Yiggy. I found (through the HD800S) that the Gumby was a little more enjoyable/musical. I did not need the extra 5% analytical boost that the Yiggy offers. I really love the Gumby...end game DAC for me.


----------



## goldsgym

SaddleSC said:


> My preferred setup for the HD800S is the Gumby (Gen 5 USB) + Violectric V281 running balanced. In SE mode, the Violectric amps sound clean, but pretty mainstream, but in balanced mode, I find this setup to be sublime.
> 
> 
> 
> I have the Gumby (Gen 5 USB) and have also auditioned the Yiggy. I found (through the HD800S) that the Gumby was a little more enjoyable/musical. I did not need the extra 5% analytical boost that the Yiggy offers. I really love the Gumby...end game DAC for me.


I've been hearing some amazing things about the V281. Is there a model that doesnt have the internal DAC though? I'd really like to pair it with the Gumby and not have to pay extra for the V281 with DAC built in.


----------



## SaddleSC

goldsgym said:


> I've been hearing some amazing things about the V281. Is there a model that doesnt have the internal DAC though? I'd really like to pair it with the Gumby and not have to pay extra for the V281 with DAC built in.



Yes...mine does NOT have a DAC built in...I have it paired with Gumby. All Violectric amps can be ordered with or without the DAC card. In standard configuration, they do not have internal DACs. In addition, if you ever decide you want an internal DAC, it can be added later by the end-user.


----------



## goldsgym

SaddleSC said:


> Yes...mine does NOT have a DAC built in...I have it paired with Gumby. All Violectric amps can be ordered with or without the DAC card. In standard configuration, they do not have internal DACs. In addition, if you ever decide you want an internal DAC, it can be added later by the end-user.


That's good to hear. Their website led me to believe that you had to choose a DAC option. This is a slightly obscure question, but have you had the chance to listen to a HDV 820 amp/DAC combo? If so, what are your thoughts on how it compares to the V281?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Any other amps? Sure. Ragnarok, WA5, WA22, WA33, the insane Woo Monoblocks. How big is your wallet?


----------



## SaddleSC

goldsgym said:


> That's good to hear. Their website led me to believe that you had to choose a DAC option. This is a slightly obscure question, but have you had the chance to listen to a HDV 820 amp/DAC combo? If so, what are your thoughts on how it compares to the V281?



Yes...the Violectric website can be a little confusing...just place the amp in the cart without choosing a DAC option from the drop-down menu and it will ship without any internal DAC. I have not owned the HDV820 but I have listened to it briefly and I find the V281 to be a more versatile amp because it sounds great with a lot of different headphones (LCD3 for example), rather than the HDV820 which is intended primarily for the HD800. For what it is worth, I preferred the sound signature of the V281 even with the HD800S when running balanced.


----------



## goldsgym

SaddleSC said:


> Yes...the Violectric website can be a little confusing...just place the amp in the cart without choosing a DAC option from the drop-down menu and it will ship without any internal DAC. I have not owned the HDV820 but I have listened to it briefly and I find the V281 to be a more versatile amp because it sounds great with a lot of different headphones (LCD3 for example), rather than the HDV820 which is intended primarily for the HD800. For what it is worth, I preferred the sound signature of the V281 even with the HD800S when running balanced.


Awesome! Ok, so I think I've finally decided on what I'm going to do. Seeing that I do not need the preamp features of the V281, I find it better (for my wallet) to opt for the V280, which is basically the same amp as the V281, except for the preamp feature. Is that right?


----------



## SaddleSC

goldsgym said:


> Awesome! Ok, so I think I've finally decided on what I'm going to do. Seeing that I do not need the preamp features of the V281, I find it better (for my wallet) to opt for the V280, which is basically the same amp as the V281, except for the preamp feature. Is that right?



I think you will really enjoy it! Yes...the V280 will give you basically the same amp. If you don't need the preamp, the balance knob or the volume knob upgrades (remote), then save some $$ and buy the V280. Arthur at Violectric is an amazing resource if you have any other technical questions...he is a great guy to deal with.


----------



## goldsgym

SaddleSC said:


> I think you will really enjoy it! Yes...the V280 will give you basically the same amp. If you don't need the preamp, the balance knob or the volume knob upgrades (remote), then save some $$ and buy the V280. Arthur at Violectric is an amazing resource if you have any other technical questions...he is a great guy to deal with.


Thank you very much for your input. Do you have a recommendation for a pair of XLR cables to connect the Gumby to the V280 by chance?


----------



## SaddleSC

goldsgym said:


> Thank you very much for your input. Do you have a recommendation for a pair of XLR cables to connect the Gumby to the V280 by chance?



You are very welcome...I think you will really like the V280. I bought the Violectric XLR interconnects. They are super thick and some of the best quality cables I have ever owned. They are not the cheapest choice on the market, but I really love the way the sound and they look great as well.


----------



## goldsgym

SaddleSC said:


> You are very welcome...I think you will really like the V280. I bought the Violectric XLR interconnects. They are super thick and some of the best quality cables I have ever owned. They are not the cheapest choice on the market, but I really love the way the sound and they look great as well.


Fantastic. Thank you for the recommendation. I currently have the Schiit Jotunheim paired with the HD 800 S, but I just find it to be too bright. It is my hope that this forthcoming setup will tone the highs back just ever so slightly, while introducing a wider soundstage and better imaging.


----------



## Globox (Jan 23, 2018)

SaddleSC said:


> You are very welcome...I think you will really like the V280. I bought the Violectric XLR interconnects. They are super thick and some of the best quality cables I have ever owned. They are not the cheapest choice on the market, but I really love the way the sound and they look great as well.


The Schiit XLR are pretty good.
But the best way to have the best possible cable for very is to make it !
Here is an exemple :
Neutrik NC3MXX = $4.74 x 2
Neutrik NC3FXX = $4.94 x 2
2 Neutrik red ring = $1 x 2
6 feet of sommercable cable = about $15
total for 2 cables of 3 feet each = $40

And you have a cable that would cost like 10 times much more on the market... The Violectric interconnect would not be as good as it does not use such high end component... and it cost 5 times more.

But you have to solder it...


----------



## goldsgym (Jan 23, 2018)

Globox said:


> The Schiit XLR are pretty good.
> But the best way to have the best possible cable for very is to make it !
> Here is an exemple :
> Neutrik NC3MXX = $4.74 x 2
> ...


I have some experience with soldering. I built a Bottlehead crack w/ Speedball upgrade a few months back, so I don't see soldering to be too big of an issue. Do you have a website recommendation where I could buy all components in one go? Also, I'm not sure which sommercable I'd have to buy. I'm looking at their website now and there are several options to choose from. And my final question, what does the red ring do? I'm also seeing several options on the ring as well. Do you have a model number by chance? Thank you very much for your input.


----------



## Globox (Jan 23, 2018)

First of all, the 2 red rings go on the XLR plugs of the right cable so you know it is the right cable.
here is a picture of the connector with 2 different rings :





About the cable, I personnaly bought some "Sommer Cable SC-Albedo MKII" for my XLR cables. Unfortunatly, it is not the best one (but already, one of the best). Today, I would buy some
"Sommer Cable Carbokab 225". It is 10% more expensive but it is also supposed to be a little better.
Finally, as I don't live in the US, I don't know where to buy that stuff overthere (I found the prices above on amazon.com). I bought my stuff at Thomann.de.


----------



## Naugrim

So I haven’t been enjoying my Ether Flows with my Mjolnir/Gumby. Just wasn’t feeling interesting. Started looking at finally getting some tubes or something. JusT realized I’ve had it in single ended/rca mode instead of balanced. Switched it back and it was night and day. LOL. What a relief. I’m an idiot.


----------



## goldsgym

Globox said:


> First of all, the 2 red rings go on the XLR plugs of the right cable so you know it is the right cable.
> here is a picture of the connector with 2 different rings :
> 
> 
> ...


So are the red rings necessary, or could I just leave the black rings on there that the connectors come with? It's a nice touch, but I personally don't need the color coordination for my setup.


----------



## Globox

You definitly dont NEED them. But I feel like it is easier to get everything in place with a colored connector. As it is like 50c each, I feel like it is not expensive at all. But well, you dont need it to have your cable working !


----------



## goldsgym

Globox said:


> You definitly dont NEED them. But I feel like it is easier to get everything in place with a colored connector. As it is like 50c each, I feel like it is not expensive at all. But well, you dont need it to have your cable working !


Ok, I just didn't want to forgo something that was needed in order to use to cables. I figured they were just for color coding, but in this world of hi-fi audio you never can be too careful haha. Thank you very much for your input. I went ahead and ordered the connectors as well as the Sommer Cable Carbokab 225 cable. I'm definitely excited to put these two cables together. Maybe next I'll build myself a custom balanced cable for my HD 800 S


----------



## callumrd1

goldsgym said:


> Ok, I just didn't want to forgo something that was needed in order to use to cables. I figured they were just for color coding, but in this world of hi-fi audio you never can be too careful haha. Thank you very much for your input. I went ahead and ordered the connectors as well as the Sommer Cable Carbokab 225 cable. I'm definitely excited to put these two cables together. Maybe next I'll build myself a custom balanced cable for my HD 800 S



Where did you end up ordering from?


----------



## goldsgym

callumrd1 said:


> Where did you end up ordering from?


I got the cable from Ebay and the Neutrik connectors from Amazon.


----------



## gc335

callumrd1 said:


> Where did you end up ordering from?


Mediabridge also has good cables.  You can find them on Amazon.  I use them for all my stuff.


----------



## bzzzt (Jan 24, 2018)

So I’ve been listening to a variety of tubes with my Mjo2 and while I know there are plenty of tube reviews out there, I figured I should chip in my impressions.

These won’t be incredibly detailed reviews using lots of audiophile terms, but may be helpful as a data point anyway. Feel free to ask for any more specific info and I’ll do my best to share my thoughts.

When I mention grades, its relative to what I have heard, and very subjective. When I mention upgrade, these offer noticably better sound but its not going to change the amp into a different amp.

Gear used for these impressions: Roon -> Aurilac Aries -> Gumby -> Mjo2 -> {Th900, Eikon, HD650}, balanced ins and outs
Genres: Rock, Rap, EDM, Reggae, Jazz, Pop, Blues

Stock tubes: These are just... decent. They sound good but not particularly great, I definitely think they are worth upgrading. Grade C.

LISST:  I often prefer these to the stock tubes. They just sound to me slightly faster and more precise, and the stock tubes don’t do enough to overcome them, but its sort of a tossup depending on headphones and choice of music. Nice to be able to switch back and forth.

64 Sylvania Gold 6DJ8 O Getter made in Waltham, Mass.: Really enjoyable tube, clean and even. These are a decent upgrade over stock tubes. Nothing wrong but not amazing, just very good. Grade B+

iFi NOS JAN-5670 (6922): Good mids but other than that they sound sort of... lame I guess. They are a upgrade to stock but not worth the price for the nicely boxed iFi ones, just get an adapter and order the tubes seperately would be cheaper. Good but the Sylvania are better. Grade B-

Amperex 60s 6DJ8/ECC88 made in Holland: Clean, quiet, maybe a little warmth. Again these are a very good upgrade over stock but they don’t blow my mind. Grade B+

Siemens 1970 E88CC A-frame getter, gold pins made in Germany: Now this is definitely a big upgrade from the stock. Great precise bass, super clean, musical. Love em but they aren’t the absolute best I have heard and I still (rarely) prefer LISST with some cans/tracks. But that is very rare, and I could be very happy if I just left these in and forgot about anything else. Grade A-

Reflektor 1975 SWGP Silver Shields “Holy Grail”: Damn. Wasn’t expecting these to be so much better, heard they were good but... soundstage, precision, extension is just the best I’ve heard. These are better than all of the above pretty much all the time. Finally a bit of the flavor of that 3D aspect that tubes can bring. Never want to roll these out. Grade A+

Anyway, let me know if you have any questions, hope some of these opinions are useful to someone.


----------



## goldsgym

Oh man, I can't believe that I pulled the trigger and picked up the Gumby with a Violectric V281. I won't say that I'm not thrilled, but I seriously hope this is a real upgrade to my current jotunheim with built-in DAC. From what I've read, it seems that it will be. Making the custom XLR cables will be fun as well. I'm hoping that this will be my end game setup, but I fear that the curiosity of the Yggy will get the best of me sooner or later... hopefully later


----------



## koover

bzzzt said:


> So I’ve been listening to a variety of tubes with my Mjo2 and while I know there are plenty of tube reviews out there, I figured I should chip in my impressions.
> 
> These won’t be incredibly detailed reviews using lots of audiophile terms, but may be helpful as a data point anyway. Feel free to ask for any more specific info and I’ll do my best to share my thoughts.
> 
> ...


Nice review. Even though I run with a LYR2, they both use the same tubes. Question:
I own the 1974 Reflektor SWGP Silver Shields. Have you heard these before and if so, how much better are the 75’s?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Where does one find those 1975 Reflektor tubes?


----------



## bzzzt

koover said:


> Nice review. Even though I run with a LYR2, they both use the same tubes. Question:
> I own the 1974 Reflektor SWGP Silver Shields. Have you heard these before and if so, how much better are the 75’s?



I've never heard the 74, and I don't know how much these tubes vary year-to-year. Sorry.


----------



## bzzzt

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Where does one find those 1975 Reflektor tubes?


 
I purchased them from a fellow enthusiast, who was able to walk me through how to verify they are authentic. He had purchased a couple sets from a seller in Russia a couple years ago, and sold me his spare set.

As for where to find them for sale today, I'm not sure. I've spotted some that seem misrepresented on ebay and some that could be the real deal, but that's a bit of a gamble I guess.


----------



## TK16

goldsgym said:


> Well, I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the iFi tubes. They go for $99 for a matched pair on Amazon, so I went ahead and ordered them. Supposedly very lush and full midrange and increased depth of the soundstage. Will be very interesting to see how they turn out. As for the MJ2 + Gumby, it is going to be difficult to have to wait for another month for them to show up!


You can find those tubes very cheap on ebay and buy yourself this adapter. Much cheaper. Then you can use that same adapter on other 5670 variants.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-p...111735?hash=item2c9e670177:g:~IoAAOSw~OVWwGvh


----------



## koover (Jan 24, 2018)

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Where does one find those 1975 Reflektor tubes?


They’re far and few between. Just watch ebay or any other reputable seller and just keep your eyes open. I look for the 74’s I have (really good and right below the 75’s In quality) all the time and I rarely see them up for sale/bid.
I’d like someone’s take on both years who own both. Looks like everyone just hangs on to them. Maybe someone on this site wants to sell them? You never know.
Post in the classifieds WTB in the cables, Speakers , accessories thread for this particular tube and see if anyone bites.
Good luck in your search.


----------



## rnros (Jan 24, 2018)

koover said:


> Nice review. Even though I run with a LYR2, they both use the same tubes. Question:
> I own the 1974 Reflektor SWGP Silver Shields. Have you heard these before and if so, how much better are the 75’s?



IMHO, Not really 'better' just a little different. Original review, and some subsequent reviews, describe a less analytical and more euphonic SQ with the '75. I have had lots of time with the '75 (2 pair) and the '74 (6 pair). I slightly, but clearly, preferred the '74 for detail, clarity, and soundstage. However, that is my own preference, no tube acrobatics, just a clean, even handed FR. (Both the '74 and '75, like all the RFL 6N23P, do have an emphasis in the upper bass/lower mids.)

The varied responses to these two tubes has to include the differences in audio chains and individual ear/experience/expectation, but I think it also involves tube variation. My experience with the RFL 6N23Ps is that there is a large percentage of noisy/microphonic tubes, at least 30%, and even very small levels of N/M can alter the SQ performance.

Anyway, in early 2016, I shared a similar curiosity and intent to hear the best available, so I went through a LOT of RFL 6N23Ps to find out for myself just what were the characteristics of this tube. How extensive the effort? Well, at least 200 tubes total from '67 to '74. Single post getters, by my searches, were not available until '74. Did this make a difference in the SQ? No. Same with the silver vs gray shield, no difference in SQ. And of course, if you do a similar search and comparison, YMMV.

Bottomline: IMHO and experience, the earlier year (esp. '70 to '73) RFL 6N23Ps share the same SQ with the SWGP/SS '74 and '75.
So, if you have heard the RFL 6N23P, you already have a sense of the SQ, if not, you can search for a really good pair from the earlier years first, without spending too much.
But I know, you don't really know, until you have had the experience. So you might just have to prove it to yourself. : )
At this point in time, if I do reach for a 6N23P, it will be one of these earlier years. I have, occasionally, gone back for a listen to the '74/'75 SWGP/SS, no change in opinion.

First commented on this here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-620#post_12569085
You can search my posts for subsequent comments on this topic.

Also, that was the first time I had commented on the RFL 6N3P-E. Actually did not mention it by name, but followed that with this post:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-621#post_12570846
Attention then went to the RFL 6N3P-E. (IMO slightly better top/bottom extension, no upper bass boom/bloom.)
Both excellent tubes, depends on gear and E/E/E.

Edit: I do have a strong opinion and recommendation, and that would be to acquire the best DAC you can before spending any similar amount of money on tubes!


----------



## goldsgym

TK16 said:


> You can find those tubes very cheap on ebay and buy yourself this adapter. Much cheaper. Then you can use that same adapter on other 5670 variants.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-p...111735?hash=item2c9e670177:g:~IoAAOSw~OVWwGvh


Thanks for that piece of advice! However, I canceled my order for the MJ2 and decided to go with the Violectric V280. I am going to return the iFi tubes to Amazon


----------



## ruthieandjohn

goldsgym said:


> Thanks for that piece of advice! However, I canceled my order for the MJ2 and decided to go with the Violectric V280. I am going to return the iFi tubes to Amazon


The Violectric V280 is single ended, not balanced, right?  It is balanced operation that distinguishes the V281from the V280, am I right?

Thanks!


----------



## koover

rnros said:


> IMHO, Not really 'better' just a little different. Original review, and some subsequent reviews, describe a less analytical and more euphonic SQ with the '75. I have had lots of time with the '75 (2 pair) and the '74 (6 pair). I slightly, but clearly, preferred the '74 for detail, clarity, and soundstage. However, that is my own preference, no tube acrobatics, just a clean, even handed FR. (Both the '74 and '75, like all the RFL 6N23P, do have an emphasis in the upper bass/lower mids.)
> 
> The varied responses to these two tubes has to include the differences in audio chains and individual ear/experience/expectation, but I think it also involves tube variation. My experience with the RFL 6N23Ps is that there is a large percentage of noisy/microphonic tubes, at least 30%, and even very small levels of N/M can alter the SQ performance.
> 
> ...


Appreciate the time and effort you put into this. 
My next upgrade will be a DAC, it's just I don't know when that will be. I'm quite pleased with my Mimby so that really leaves me with the Gumby if I want to stay Schittie. I just don't ever see me putting down the cash on a Yggdrasil.


----------



## SaddleSC

ruthieandjohn said:


> The Violectric V280 is single ended, not balanced, right?  It is balanced operation that distinguishes the V281from the V280, am I right?
> 
> Thanks!



Wrong...both the V280 and V281 are fully balanced. The V281 just includes preamp functionality in a larger chassis with some different volume control options.


----------



## rnros (Jan 24, 2018)

koover said:


> Appreciate the time and effort you put into this.
> My next upgrade will be a DAC, it's just I don't know when that will be. I'm quite pleased with my Mimby so that really leaves me with the Gumby if I want to stay Schittie. I just don't ever see me putting down the cash on a Yggdrasil.



After some of the top 2C51/6N3P, I found a couple of the '40s octals with 300mA heaters to be an exciting step up.
Ken Rad and Tung Sol 6C8Gs at about $40 to $60 a pair. Adapters and socket savers required.
Top performance, very modest cost.


----------



## Phantaminum

rnros said:


> After some of the top 2C51/6N3P, I found a couple of the '40s octals with 300mA heaters to be an exciting step up.
> Ken Rad and Tung Sol 6C8Gs at about $40 to $60 a pair. Adapters and socket savers required.
> Top performance, very modest cost.



Please do share the adapters needed for 6C8G to E88CC. Love to try out the Ken Rads!


----------



## rnros (Jan 24, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> Please do share the adapters needed for 6C8G to E88CC. Love to try out the Ken Rads!



Adapter:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-6F8G-6...11-tube-adapter-CNC-Copper-body/191554107223?
You will have to use socket savers so the adapter and tube can sit above the chassis. Two for each tube socket.

This '40s Ken Rad JAN 6C8G VT-163 in the original military box is the one I have and recommend. May be other sellers also.
Internal construction did change a bit in the following years, so I don't know about those.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-TV...-Plate-Dual-Triode-VT-163-Tubes/202175625462?

The Ken Rads need about 60hrs to hit full SQ, especially the top end.

Edit: Oops. Wrong adapter, corrected.


----------



## ljperez84 (Jan 26, 2018)

Well I can't just believe that on a single month I pulled the trigger on my HD800S, MJ2 and some WE396A tubes (with adapters of course). My wallet will be sad, my ears will be happy. 

At first I tought that by upgrading to the HD800S I was going to sell my beloved HD650s, but after seeing how unforgiving the HD800Ss are with bad recordings I decided I'll keep the HD650s.

Sorry if this have been asked many times before, but, is there a huge difference in using the HD650s balanced?

I'm not really a cable believer. Noob question: I can just re-terminate one regular cable, right? If so, would you be so kind to point me out to a link of which connector should I buy and a noob guide on how to install it?


----------



## bzzzt

ljperez84 said:


> Well I can't just believe that on a single month I pulled the trigger on my HD800S, MJ2 and some WE396A tubes (with adapters of course). My wallet will be sad, my ears will be happy.
> 
> At first I tought that by upgrading to the HD800S I was going to sell my beloved HD650s, but after seeing how unforgiving the HD800Ss are with bad recordings I decided I'll keep the HD650s.
> 
> ...



With most amps (Mjo2 included), balanced will give you more power, however not necessarily noticeably better sound. Consensus on the Mjo2 seems to be that the balanced out sounds better, because the summing stage before the SE output reduces some of the advantage of the circlotron circuit in the amp. I personally think the balanced sounds better enough that it was worth purchasing balanced cables for my headphones.

Maybe since you just invested a lot in upgrades, you should wait and keep your eyes open for a great deal on a cable. Will give you time to get used to the sound of the single ended output with the HD650, so that when you try the balanced you will be better able to compare.


----------



## bzzzt

rnros said:


> After some of the top 2C51/6N3P, I found a couple of the '40s octals with 300mA heaters to be an exciting step up.
> Ken Rad and Tung Sol 6C8Gs at about $40 to $60 a pair. Adapters and socket savers required.
> Top performance, very modest cost.



Looks cool and would like to try.

Question for you though, how did you know these tubes would be compatible and not cause any damage? Was it based on specifications? Also, do have any info about bias adjustment in the Mjo2?

I only ask because I have not seen any official way to know what tubes may work in the Mjo2, other than Schiit’s provided compatibility list.

Thanks for your thoughts.


----------



## gc335

Has anyone compared the Mj2 versus the Audio-gd NFB-28?  I know that is super specific but I'm hoping someone here has some experience with it.


----------



## ljperez84

Good advise, thanks! I'll tell my wife to hide my credit cards from my self.


----------



## rnros

bzzzt said:


> Looks cool and would like to try.
> 
> Question for you though, how did you know these tubes would be compatible and not cause any damage? Was it based on specifications? Also, do have any info about bias adjustment in the Mjo2?
> 
> ...



Yes, you can check spec sheet for heater filament current requirement. 300 mA is required by both 6DJ8 group and 6C8G. Bias is obviously set for 6DJ8 group, so probably not taking full advantage of the octals' capabilities. Have used octals, with appropriate heater requirement, for all the Schiit hybrid amps. 
Many others have also, you can check some of the other Schiit amp threads.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

What's the voltage output of the MJ2?


----------



## Phantaminum

rnros said:


> Adapter:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-6F8G-6...11-tube-adapter-CNC-Copper-body/191554107223?
> You will have to use socket savers so the adapter and tube can sit above the chassis. Two for each tube socket.
> 
> ...



Bought the adapters and will buy two Ken Rads before the adapters arrive. Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## Rowethren

What is that wire coming out of the adapter for?


----------



## koover

Phantaminum said:


> Bought the adapters and will buy two Ken Rads before the adapters arrive. Thanks for the heads up!


You're too funny bro.You're just as bad as me....maybe worse? 
In all seriousness, please let me know how you like them. If you're anything like me, you're always looking for "that" tube to take our system to the next level. The thing is, you have better tubes and gear then I. 

I'll just continue living through you bro! Got my eye on a Gumby though. Shhhh.
Thanx @rnros, we can always count on you for ideas. Seriously!


----------



## koover

Rowethren said:


> What is that wire coming out of the adapter for?


I'd like to know too.


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> You're too funny bro.You're just as bad as me....maybe worse?
> In all seriousness, please let me know how you like them. If you're anything like me, you're always looking for "that" tube to take our system to the next level. The thing is, you have better tubes and gear then I.
> 
> I'll just continue living through you bro! Got my eye on a Gumby though. Shhhh.
> Thanx @rnros, we can always count on you for ideas. Seriously!



The first step is admitting you have a problem.
1. Yeh I like tubes
The second is looking for help.
2. Yeah, no. You’ll have to take these tubes from my cold hands.

It’ll throw up some pics and review in 3-4 weeks. Shipping from China is brutal.

@rnros what are your thoughts on the Kens and Tung Sols? Any 5670 or 6922 tube they sound similiar to?

@koover I know you were thinking about buying the Eitr. That was one of the best pieces of equipment that I purchased for my chain. It may tie you over until you decide to move to the Gumby.


----------



## rnros

Rowethren said:


> What is that wire coming out of the adapter for?



Connects to the 'grid cap'. Electrode at top of the tube, connected to the grid of triode #1.


----------



## rnros

Phantaminum said:


> @rnros what are your thoughts on the Kens and Tung Sols? Any 5670 or 6922 tube they sound similiar to?



Both are very good tubes, but I do prefer the KR for the extended and accurate low and top end, greater 3D clarity, and a natural tone and dynamic that is true to both instrument and voice. This would be referenced to acoustic performance in a good performance space, so someone else, with different music preferences, may prefer the TS which has a greater focus on mids and a more intimate soundstage, also a little more emphasis in the upper bass. 
Again, the only KS and TS 6C8G I have and use are the ones linked above, I have no experience with other dates or construction/design variations. The KR needs 60 to 80 hrs at least. Also, I have only listened to one pair of the TS, and several of the KR (same source).

Similarities to 5670 or 6922? Well, the significant difference is the soundstage projection, that aside, if you like the tonal balance of the TS 2C51, the TS 6C8G is similar but without the slight lift in the upper mids/low treble that the 2C51 has. That's from memory, never compared them side by side.
KR is tougher to draw a comparison, the easy/lazy way is to say it has the best qualities of several tubes, across the full frequency range.


----------



## Rowethren

rnros said:


> Connects to the 'grid cap'. Electrode at top of the tube, connected to the grid of triode #1.



Thanks I googled a picture and they look really odd. Bit too much mess for me I think...


----------



## Bastianpp

I have a question about the mid range of mjonir 2

Is neutral? forward or lack back?


----------



## FLTWS

Bastianpp said:


> I have a question about the mid range of mjonir 2
> 
> Is neutral? forward or lack back?



Depends on what tubes one uses and how they interpret what they hear.


----------



## Bastianpp

FLTWS said:


> Depends on what tubes one uses and how they interpret what they hear.


lisst and stock tubes !!


----------



## FLTWS (Feb 1, 2018)

I found both to be towards neutral but nothing special.

The LISST's were okay but not as transparent as my Ragnarok, or even my Jot. But they are a cost effective way to experiment with SS versus (stock) tube sounds.

The stock tubes? Just lacked the "magic" tube rollers live for. For all I know that "magic" could be the result of better frequency response extension or small frequency response variations (or colorations / distortions) that make a midrange come into better focus or that add air and roundness and warmth to the sound of  instruments, or improve perceived transparency with a quieter background, or establish a more 3 dimensional sound field; any or all or those qualities may make a given tube strike a sympathetic tone with what I think is right.

Tube rolling is a one on one sport and can't be done in the virtual realm like a video game. You have to open your wallet and your ears and live the experience.

(Edit Out; wrong thread for this sentence).


----------



## SAndreev

ifi NOS 6922 tubes (let's call them that) *do *live up to the hype. Really enjoying them now with HE-560, if someone is still on the fence about them - just go for them, for the price its hard to find anything better at the moment IMO. 

For last couple hours I tried some very different music from garage recorded indie rock, some viking metal to EDM, poorly recorded ragga-Jungle and onward to Pink Floyd and magnificently mastered Daft Punk. They sound amazing. The only thing I haven't tried (yet) is classical music, but I'm not in the mood for that today.


----------



## FLTWS (Feb 5, 2018)

SAndreev said:


> ifi NOS 6922 tubes (let's call them that) *do *live up to the hype. Really enjoying them now with HE-560, if someone is still on the fence about them - just go for them, for the price its hard to find anything better at the moment IMO.
> 
> For last couple hours I tried some very different music from garage recorded indie rock, some viking metal to EDM, poorly recorded ragga-Jungle and onward to Pink Floyd and magnificently mastered Daft Punk. They sound amazing. The only thing I haven't tried (yet) is classical music, but I'm not in the mood for that today.



Yep, good choice, I like mine, of the 12  pairs of 6DJ8/6922 types I have this is one of my top 4.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Please be aware that Schiit has been unable to keep its delivery promise date on the Schiit Mjolnir 2. They show it as backordered with a shipping date that is up to three weeks in the future, but as that date approaches, they move the delivery date out another two weeks.

So far they have done this to me three times, promising me an initial date of week of January 29 when I ordered on Dec. 27, then moving it out to February 15, then to Feb 22, and just now, to March 6.   When they moved it to Feb, 22, I asked for what their REAL delivery date would be, and they said Feb. 22.  

When they do this, they do not inform you as one who ordered, but merely post it on the web listing for the product and on your individual order record, which you have to sign in and view.  There is no letter of explanation.  

At least one other person has said that he ordered his Mjolnir 2 in October and at last report still didn’t have it.

According to their Operations Director who sets their production priorities, their production resources are being preempted by other products that sell more units, in particular the Magni 3.

So if you order a Mjolnir 2, be prepared to wait FAR LONGER than the initial backordered date provided with your order.


----------



## kodger

Yes I am still waiting since October - it is coming up to the 6 month - I was told they were waiting for the boards to arrive. Even when they ship it will be another week before I get it on the East coast

I respect that they have not charged me 

However with this kind of delay the amp will be discontinued or version 3 will be released 

My challenge is that there's nothing else on the market with the flexibilty and features

This rolling delay 4 or 5 days before the planned ship date has got old

Come on let us get this over with and start shipping amps


----------



## Phasor

kodger said:


> Yes I am still waiting since October - it is coming up to the 6 month - I was told they were waiting for the boards to arrive. Even when they ship it will be another week before I get it on the East coast
> 
> I respect that they have not charged me
> 
> ...



I really don't like this news! I just sold my Lyr 2 and ordered the Mjolnir 2 today! I have lots of tubes to roll and now nothing to put them in. Anyway, not much I can do about it but wait like the rest of you...


----------



## FredoIsFishing

I've cancelled my order for a Mjolnir 2. Been waiting over three months. Schiit has moved the date back four times.

I gave up.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Oh just get a Rag.


----------



## Charente

Or a LYR2 ... not to be scoffed at as a Tube/SS amplifier... and in stock. I kept the Lyr after I bought the MJ2 and it still does great service.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I LOVED my Lyr2.  I sold it , though, to buy the Mjolnir 2, as with some new headphones, I wanted a balanced amp.


----------



## kodger

FredoIsFishing said:


> I've cancelled my order for a Mjolnir 2. Been waiting over three months. Schiit has moved the date back four times.
> 
> I gave up.


Can I ask what you chose instead?

Thanks


----------



## FredoIsFishing (Feb 22, 2018)

kodger said:


> Can I ask what you chose instead?
> 
> Thanks


Still deciding. I may decide I don't need a new amp.


----------



## JerryLeeds

If you want a good solid state ... Vioelectric might still have a 10% winter sale going on.

I have both the MJ2 and V280 ... Very happy camper

Though, I need to find better set of y XLR cables .. the 18 inch pair I have from Blue Jean Cables are a bit too thin. They only have the one type of wire to chose.


----------



## Phantaminum

FredoIsFishing said:


> Still deciding. I may decide I don't need a new amp.



The only other amp that is similar to the Mjolnir 2, that’s readily available, and take the same tubes, is the Pathos Aurium.


----------



## FredoIsFishing

Phantaminum said:


> The only other amp that is similar to the Mjolnir 2, that’s readily available, and take the same tubes, is the Pathos Aurium.



Thanks. I will check that model out.


----------



## SirIsaac

Great, I found this thread after placing my order for the MJOLNIR 2. I placed my order on February 15th. It's been pushed back once already to the week of March 3-6. Has anyone received their MJOLNIR 2 or have any more info on this?


----------



## roshambo

Just ordered my Mjolnir 2 a couple days ago. I sent Schiit an email inquiring about their confidence in the current March 6 date. I'll update when I hear back.


----------



## DrummerLeo

FredoIsFishing said:


> Thanks. I will check that model out.


I had both of them, end up selling my mj2. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying pa is better than Mj2, I just prefer PA, cause the sound is softer, warmer and more peaceful and colorful. However, mj2 wins in sound stage, power, and sorta more detailed, and mj has balanced output which pa doesn’t have.
It’s hard to find a amp has a sound signature as mature as pa in this price range, it’s also hard to get one with such outstanding SQ as mj2 as well...so It’s a hard to pick one from these 2.
The case is, if you don’t want to upgrade your system in the short future, I suggest you go for PA, cause it’s easy to get one amp has better sq than both in a higher price range. But it’s hard to get one has such a mature sound signature in even higher price range, you probably need to raise your budget to $2000 to get a amp that can deliver the same feeling as pa do.


----------



## roshambo

Reply from Laura Z. at Schiit:

_Thank you for your order. We anticipate receiving Mjolnir 2 boards from our board house at the end of the month (February) and resuming production at that time.  Once production resumes, we will begin shipping backorders.  Part delays postponed production which pushed back availability dates._


----------



## kodger

A post from Jason that the boards are in and on the production line

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...lds-most-improbable-start-up.701900/page-1959

Yeah


----------



## SirIsaac

Well that is some good news. Hopefully all goes well and they can ship them on schedule.


----------



## FredoIsFishing

DrummerLeo said:


> I had both of them, end up selling my mj2. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying pa is better than Mj2, I just prefer PA, cause the sound is softer, warmer and more peaceful and colorful. However, mj2 wins in sound stage, power, and sorta more detailed, and mj has balanced output which pa doesn’t have.
> It’s hard to find a amp has a sound signature as mature as pa in this price range, it’s also hard to get one with such outstanding SQ as mj2 as well...so It’s a hard to pick one from these 2.
> The case is, if you don’t want to upgrade your system in the short future, I suggest you go for PA, cause it’s easy to get one amp has better sq than both in a higher price range. But it’s hard to get one has such a mature sound signature in even higher price range, you probably need to raise your budget to $2000 to get a amp that can deliver the same feeling as pa do.


Thanks for the thoughtful information. 

I see there is some good news that the MJ2 might be over its long production drought soon. I kind of wanted balanced to go along with my new HD800s headphones. Decisions, decisions. Sometimes the wanting is as much fun as the getting.

And I also have other hobbies that are attracting my entertainment dollars. Do I really need another amp?


----------



## ruthieandjohn

The Mjolnir 2 was recommended to me by Grado Labs after I had laid down over $4,000 to purchase their PS2000e and GS2000e in balanced configuration.  I have two balanced amps already (Sennheiser HDVD800 and HiFiMAN EF-6, the formerly purchased for my HD800 and the latter for my HE1000 headphones).

However, neither of these was really suited for the 32 ohm input impedance of the Grados.  For example. The output impedance of the Sennheiser is 43 ohms, great for the 300-600 ohm input impedance of the HD800s, but over 10 times too high for the Grados.

I am hoping that the Mjolnir 2 will be at least as good for my HE1000s as my EF-6, so that I can sell the EF-6 and not have an additional big heavy amp taking up space. I certainly expect it to be great for my Grados, as was the Lyr 2 I sold to get the Mjolnir.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I found EF6 unrefined when I listened to it in LA on HE-6 and Susvara. You'd do better with an integrated amp for the super power hungry cans. MJ2 has oodles of power for everything else; even if/when I buy something like the WA5 or WA22 that supersedes it in certain ways, I doubt I will sell mine. It is too good at too many things, despite not perhaps being the final word in anything. For the money, though, you can do no better. I haven't heard HDVD's analog section in isolation, but its DAC is so bad that it caused me pain at Sennheiser SF. Either way, though, MJ2 plays very nicely with HD800 and a Bimby (or especially Gumby) will do much nicer things for the music than anything out of Wedemark.


----------



## roshambo

Last weekend I drove up to Schiit’s storefront in Santa Clarita and did a mini-comparison involving Mjolnir 2. 

Even though I already had an MJ2  on order, I wanted to hear what it sounded like next to all of Schiit's offerings, and also sample the Gungnir. It was good timing and there was only a couple in the next room listening to Michael Jackson's 'Bad' on the Yggy and Rag, and once they left, I had the place all to myself.

As I was mainly interested in comparing my Modi Multibit on their tube/hybrid amps, the gentleman at the counter was nice enough to allow me to carefully shift their gear around at the listening stations on their Win10 tablets. I brought both Sennheiser SE and balanced cabling for my HD800's that are stock other than Dekoni velour pads. 

Using Tidal, I listened to the first track from Lisa Batiashvili's 'Visions of Prokofiev' for soundstage and treble and for an electronic track 'Bilder' by John Digweed, which has an immediate upfront bass kick. 

Using Mimby and balanced out of Mjolnir 2, the bass slam and articulation on the Digweed track were on their own level. The power of the bass had me momentarily questioning if I had not accidentally picked up a different set of headphones, because even with Loki bass EQ +12dB at home, this is not something I've heard out of the Vali 2. The soundstage opened up magnificently. On the negative, the HD800 treble on both the classical and electronic track was considerably more piercing on the MJ2 than on any other setup I tried that day (although I did not try the Jotunheim, which is reportedly a much poorer match). The experience rapidly had me thinking about what type of tubes I would need to roll to take the edge off the highs. That being said, there was no question in my mind that I needed to have the Mjolnir 2 sound in my setup, even if I decided I didn't want to listen to it for 8 hours straight. It was much too impressive and unique. I also tried MJ2 with Gungnir (non-MB, I believe) but I preferred the smoother, less detailed Mimby on the HD800's.

Going back to Vali 2, it became obvious how laidback this amp sounds in comparison. It's like getting out of a Yukon into a Volkswagen. Definitely a smaller soundstage, but the least fatiguing setup there except perhaps for the Magni 3 which I momentarily tried (and was impressed with, but I like tubes). Super pleasant, but the bass response is nothing compared to the MJ2.

My suprise for the day was how much I liked Valhalla 2. I thought it was pretty laidback like Vali 2 but more clarity and small touch of some euphonic magic in the mids somewhere that was difficult to put a finger on but could be felt at times. It seemed to do everything a hair better than Vali 2. The difference in bass wasn't that much, but soundstage and detail both improved. I really nice amp.

Lyr 2 hit harder than Valhalla 2 or Vali 2, as might be expected. While it was definitely a high-quality impressive amp, there wasn't anything that jumped out at me that made me want to buy it and pair it with my 800's. I'd say it probably had a larger soundstage than Valhalla 2 and more clarity, but there wasn't really much tubiness I could discern. For some people, this is probably a bonus, but on the 800's, it didn't grab me personally. Perhaps with a warmer set of tubes, I'd have had a stronger opinion. There were also no planar magnetics around to test, as all pairs were in NYC for CanJam I was told. While good, the bass on the MJ2 is still a league above.

So, in conclusion, I'm looking forward to my MJ2, but I'm definitely going to need the right tubes to get the sound I want.


----------



## Charente

@roshambo ... I settled on GE 5670W 5 Star ... smooth and articulate delivery and not too expensive for a pair. They do need converters which I sourced from China and took a while to reach me. There are alternatives in the 6922 (etc) family ... some European ones are quite expensive but excellent SQ. The tube-rolling thread may give you some pointers.


----------



## CoolHand18

Just an FYI to all, I ordered my Mjolnir 2 in late November and it just shipped.  Looking forward to finally receiving it.


----------



## SirIsaac

That's great news, hope you get it soon.


----------



## Phasor

CoolHand18 said:


> Just an FYI to all, I ordered my Mjolnir 2 in late November and it just shipped.  Looking forward to finally receiving it.



Very good news....looks like the boards have arrived and been checked. Hopefully I will get a shipping notice in the next few days as they catch up.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I got a new invoice on my Mjolnir2 order today (placed Dec. 27), indicating that it is ready to Schiit er... SHIP!


----------



## roshambo (Mar 3, 2018)

Charente said:


> @roshambo ... I settled on GE 5670W 5 Star ... smooth and articulate delivery and not too expensive for a pair. They do need converters which I sourced from China and took a while to reach me. There are alternatives in the 6922 (etc) family ... some European ones are quite expensive but excellent SQ. The tube-rolling thread may give you some pointers.



Thanks, haven't checked out those GE's. How are the highs and soundstage? Are you listening on 800's?

I've taken a look in a lot of the tube rolling threads (damn near all I could find) and my research points to Amperex Orange Globes as my likely best solution. The reports of some minor warming combined with present but not emphasized treble seems like a good solution for what I'm trying to do, assuming the dynamics and bass holdup. For the hell of it, even though they may suck, I'm trying out some Nationals, since they're cheap(ish). I'm ruling out Voskhods (reportedly too bright), Telefunken (too expensive), Mullard (again reportedly too trebley), Electroharmonix (I bought a 6CG7 for my Vali 2 and it was way too compressed and non-resolving, given my system is not super resolving to start with...). Basically, all roads seem to lead to Holland.


----------



## Charente

@roshambo ... Headphones I use with the MJ2 + GE5670W-5* are Senn HD650 (balanced) and MrSpeakers AEON Flow Open (single-ended). As you probably know, HD-650 are quite warm overall and AFO (with black tuning pads) just warm to me. I don't own HD-800. 

I play mostly Jazz ensemble and the soundstage, especially with the AFO, is remarkably good. The ambient background is deep and detailed ... instruments are easy to place and nicely layered. Width, in the context of the music genre, is plenty wide, within the limitations of the headphones. Certainly good enough for the music I listen to. I could imagine on HD-800 this would be excellent. Highs on cymbals have an authentic sounding splash & zing with a satisfying extended shimmer. However, my ears may not be the youngest on the block !!

I know some folks also favour the WE396A tubes (also need converters), which I've not been able to source in Europe at a sensible price.


----------



## roshambo

Very interesting, I appreciate the detailed description! Definitely seems like one to consider, especially since prices seem very reasonable (if I'm looking at the right thing.)


----------



## Charente

roshambo said:


> Very interesting, I appreciate the detailed description! Definitely seems like one to consider, especially since prices seem very reasonable (if I'm looking at the right thing.)



There are two varieties of GE5670W-5* ... red and white labelling and stars. I have white but I am reliably lead to believe the red are marginally better, especially with triple mica plates, if you can get them.


----------



## SirIsaac

Charente said:


> There are two varieties of GE5670W-5* ... red and white labelling and stars. I have white but I am reliably lead to believe the red are marginally better, especially with triple mica plates, if you can get them.



I'm finding ones with green labels as well. Any thoughts on those?


----------



## Charente

SirIsaac said:


> I'm finding ones with green labels as well. Any thoughts on those?



I haven't seen those ... nor heard about them. I'll try to find out.


----------



## SirIsaac

Charente said:


> I haven't seen those ... nor heard about them. I'll try to find out.



These are an example 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-GE-5670-...184350?hash=item33c69807de:g:D0gAAOSw-0xYdsiN

Not sure if it's a different variant or?


----------



## FLTWS

SirIsaac said:


> These are an example
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-GE-5670-...184350?hash=item33c69807de:g:D0gAAOSw-0xYdsiN
> 
> Not sure if it's a different variant or?



They look just like my iFi's that come with the adapter already installed.


----------



## Charente

SirIsaac said:


> These are an example
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-GE-5670-...184350?hash=item33c69807de:g:D0gAAOSw-0xYdsiN
> 
> Not sure if it's a different variant or?



These are different, but JAN military spec, so should be long-lived. The 5* series, I believe, are considered TOTL in the GE lineup of these variants ... they certainly sound noticeably better than the regular 5670W that I also have.


----------



## SirIsaac

Super cheap here:
https://www.tubedepot.com/products/5670w-2c51w

Is this the right adapter?
https://www.tubedepot.com/products/6sn7-to-6922-adapter


----------



## Charente

SirIsaac said:


> Super cheap here:
> https://www.tubedepot.com/products/5670w-2c51w
> 
> Is this the right adapter?
> https://www.tubedepot.com/products/6sn7-to-6922-adapter



At that price you can afford to experiment ! The 5* I got were €40 the pair and I found them so good I bought the other 4 the seller had in stock. They're not easy to find over here.

The adapter ... I haven't seen the 6SN7 designation before ... you'd need to check with the seller.

The adapter I'm using is this one ... 
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2pc-Gold...111735?hash=item2c9e670177:g:~IoAAOSw~OVWwGvh


----------



## JohnnyCanuck

SirIsaac said:


> Super cheap here:
> https://www.tubedepot.com/products/5670w-2c51w
> 
> Is this the right adapter?
> https://www.tubedepot.com/products/6sn7-to-6922-adapter



No.  Not unless you're planning on using a 6SN7 instead of a 6922.


JC


----------



## SirIsaac

JohnnyCanuck said:


> No.  Not unless you're planning on using a 6SN7 instead of a 6922.
> 
> 
> JC



Ok I'll grab a few off ebay.

Also, the socket savers. I'm looking at getting a set of these. Are there higher quality ones I should be looking into or does that matter?

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/GD-PARTS-2P...978830?hash=item4abdce124e:g:BAUAAOSwcUFZmDAO


----------



## roshambo

Sidenote, does anyone have a source for a pair of matched Amperex Orange globes Holland?


----------



## me2621a

Hey guys,
Anyone else’s orders getting shipped? My order was placed on the 1/14, and I saw that they seem to be up to shipping 12/27. If you can post if yours shipped, and what date you placed it to help track the backorder queue.


----------



## Phasor

me2621a said:


> Hey guys,
> Anyone else’s orders getting shipped? My order was placed on the 1/14, and I saw that they seem to be up to shipping 12/27. If you can post if yours shipped, and what date you placed it to help track the backorder queue.




I think that I read in one of the other threads that Jason mentioned that they were hoping to catch up most of the back orders this next week of March 6th. Hope so, as I didn't order my Mjolnir 2 until Feb 20.


----------



## me2621a

Phasor said:


> I think that I read in one of the other threads that Jason mentioned that they were hoping to catch up most of the back orders this next week of March 6th. Hope so, as I didn't order my Mjolnir 2 until Feb 20.


Yah it is true that they are aiming for the week of the 6th, they have just moved that date a few times Now. Hoping this week is my week haha.


----------



## kodger

me2621a said:


> Hey guys,
> Anyone else’s orders getting shipped? My order was placed on the 1/14, and I saw that they seem to be up to shipping 12/27. If you can post if yours shipped, and what date you placed it to help track the backorder queue.



My order was earlier than yours and I am hoping for some good news soon

Thanks


----------



## Phasor

I see that they updated the website today for the Mjolnir 2 to:

*Status: In stock.  Orders placed now will ship in 1 - 3 business days.*

Maybe I will get mine soon.


----------



## SirIsaac

My order was shipped today and according to USPS is in the Pre-Shipment status.


----------



## Phasor

SirIsaac said:


> My order was shipped today and according to USPS is in the Pre-Shipment status.



That is good news...looks like they might catch up their backorders. I think I ordered 5 days after you. So maybe I will be getting a shipping notice in the next few days. Thanks for posting.


----------



## me2621a

Yep my order got a FedEx tracking number. Hoping to see it loaded into a truck tonight.


----------



## Phasor

Got my FedEx tracking number today for a Feb 20th order....woo hoo!


----------



## roshambo

Same here. Got tracking for my Feb 20th order also!


----------



## roshambo (Mar 8, 2018)

Arrived today. Great amp that impressed everyone that listened. Dwarfs the rest of the Schiit stack.


----------



## Metrops

I'm looking at getting a Mjolnir 2 after a year of my Valhalla 2, I'm using the Modi Multibit and HD 800S, has anyone had both the Valhalla 2 and Mjolnir 2 and could tell me the differences and if the Mjolnir 2 was much better for the price


----------



## roshambo

I listened to MJ2 and Valhalla 2 at Schiit's office on HD800 + Mimby. With the MJ2 you get more dynamics and slam, and it feels like the music is closer. It is a more intense experience and obviously more powerful than Valhalla 2. However, the Valhalla 2 tonality I found very pleasing and less fatigue inducing, and there's more tube sweetness in there somewhere.The value proposition for the MJ2 is tremendous, just make sure to use the balanced out for HD800's if you jump for it.


----------



## Phantaminum

roshambo said:


> I listened to MJ2 and Valhalla 2 at Schiit's office on HD800 + Mimby. With the MJ2 you get more dynamics and slam, and it feels like the music is closer. It is a more intense experience and obviously more powerful than Valhalla 2. However, the Valhalla 2 tonality I found very pleasing and less fatigue inducing, and there's more tube sweetness in there somewhere.The value proposition for the MJ2 is tremendous, just make sure to use the balanced out for HD800's if you jump for it.



Wait until those Russian tubes come in.  I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised with them.


----------



## rnros

Metrops said:


> I'm looking at getting a Mjolnir 2 after a year of my Valhalla 2, I'm using the Modi Multibit and HD 800S, has anyone had both the Valhalla 2 and Mjolnir 2 and could tell me the differences and if the Mjolnir 2 was much better for the price



Get the MJ2 also. VAHL2 is a great little amp in it's own way. MJ2 is another level. 
Seriously. But yes, you will want to explore some of the really great tubes available.
Good news is, the really good tubes are cheap. Serious on that also.


----------



## peter1480

roshambo said:


> Arrived today. Great amp that impressed everyone that listened. Dwarfs the rest of the Schiit stack.


nice stack, move them off the MJ2 though, it gets rather hot


----------



## Metrops

roshambo said:


> I listened to MJ2 and Valhalla 2 at Schiit's office on HD800 + Mimby. With the MJ2 you get more dynamics and slam, and it feels like the music is closer. It is a more intense experience and obviously more powerful than Valhalla 2. However, the Valhalla 2 tonality I found very pleasing and less fatigue inducing, and there's more tube sweetness in there somewhere.The value proposition for the MJ2 is tremendous, just make sure to use the balanced out for HD800's if you jump for it.



Can you get better tubes that give a less fatiguing and more sweetness, making it a better overall option and would it work well with the Modi Multibit, I sold my 4 pin XLR cable that came with my HD 800S, so I'll have to get one as I did not think that I would upgrade to a better AMP



rnros said:


> Get the MJ2 also. VAHL2 is a great little amp in it's own way. MJ2 is another level.
> Seriously. But yes, you will want to explore some of the really great tubes available.
> Good news is, the really good tubes are cheap. Serious on that also.



I can only keep one though


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Get Gumby/MJ2. It's the combo to beat.


----------



## DrummerLeo

roshambo said:


> I listened to MJ2 and Valhalla 2 at Schiit's office on HD800 + Mimby. With the MJ2 you get more dynamics and slam, and it feels like the music is closer. It is a more intense experience and obviously more powerful than Valhalla 2. However, the Valhalla 2 tonality I found very pleasing and less fatigue inducing, and there's more tube sweetness in there somewhere.The value proposition for the MJ2 is tremendous, just make sure to use the balanced out for HD800's if you jump for it.


This is a very honest review, I use pathos aurium compare with mj2. MJ2 definitely provides one of best SQ in this price range, dynamic, bass control, treble extension, etc. However the problem is the over all tonality is not very outstanding compare with PA. MJ2 is not a warm amp, certainly not cold too. Everything presented very straight forward. MJ2 sounds like a young musician who just graduated from a top5 music school, very talented but lack of live and life experience.


----------



## roshambo

Metrops said:


> Can you get better tubes that give a less fatiguing and more sweetness, making it a better overall option and would it work well with the Modi Multibit, I sold my 4 pin XLR cable that came with my HD 800S, so I'll have to get one as I did not think that I would upgrade to a better AMP



I've only rolled the stock tubes to Matsushita's, so I can't comment on how sweet you could potentially make MJ2 sound, but my reaction is to think it's probably going to be a frustrating and ultimately disappointing affair. You can put Till Lindemann in a dress but I doubt that's what you want in your bedroom. From what I've read, you can probably make MJ2 warmer or colder, more or less holographic, more trebley or less trebley, but more or less sweeter I don't recall anyone saying. But maybe I missed that post?



peter1480 said:


> nice stack, move them off the MJ2 though, it gets rather hot



Thanks, MJ2 does get warm, and I may move the stack off, but so far heat hasn't concerned me too much. For the moment, I've re-arranged so Wyrd is on the bottom, which seems the coolest of the bunch. If I move the stack off it'll be a PITA to reach and I'll need to buy new cables. ;P Surprisingly, before MJ2, when I had Vali 2 at the top of the stack, heat was much more of an issue and it scared me a couple times to the point where I unstacked everything to let it cool down


----------



## Gimpinchair

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Get Gumby/MJ2. It's the combo to beat.



+1


----------



## me2621a

Hey Guys,
My MJ2 is arriving today and I am super pumped. I also just ordered a Grado PS1000e (modified by Moon Audio with HD800 connectors) so I could swap the cable to a balanced cable. Anyone have any experience with the MJ2 and this or a similar Grado? Would love to hear your thoughts.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

MY Mjolnir 2 arrived yesterday and I just now got it set up with my Schiit Gungir Multibit DAC to drive both my Grado PS2000e BALANCED headphones and my Grado GS2000e BALANCED headphones.  The purchase of these two headphones is why I sold my Schiit Bifrost Multibit DAC and Lyr 2 amp to upgrade to the Gungir/Mjolnir combination.  Grado recommends the Mjolnir for its balanced headphones, and if you have a balanced amp, you likely want a balanced DAC, so I upgraded to the Gungir Multibit as well.

I have consistently noticed an improvement in my GS2000e in balanced over single ended, using the Lotoo PAW 5000 DAP while walking dogs (no comments, please, about walking around outside with GS2000e headphones...if I didn't listen to good headphones on my two daily dog walks, my listening time would be cut in half!).  I had listened to both the GS2000e and PS2000e in balanced configuration on other amps not intended for the low input impedance of the Grados (e.g., the Sennheiser HDVD800 DAC/amp, with 43 ohm output and intended for the 300 - 600 ohm input impedance of the HD800).

What I hear for the first time today, with the Gumby/MJ2, is simply fantastic!  I have only listened to about three songs so far and though I did comparisons with balanced vs. single ended on my other amps when I was on the TTVJ Loaner Program Tour of each of those headphones, I have not made side by side comparisons with the MJ2  yet.

I also hope and plan to determine that the MJ2 will drive my HiFiMAN HE1000s at least as well as my HiFiMAN EF-6, so that I might then use the MJ2 instead and sell the EF-6 (too many big amps!).

I will also try its ability to drive the HD800, balanced.

I am using the stock tubes, but I also got the solid state counterpart (LISST), as well as some Amperex Orange Globes that I will eventually try.

But so far, I am a Happy Camper and it was Well Worth The Wait.


----------



## Charente

@ruthieandjohn ... good to hear ... I admire your patience ... I'd go straight to the Amperex OG's if it was me. I also have the LISST and I found an initial 'buzz' but that wore off ... I guess i'm a die-hard tubes person. Give me that 'distortion' !


----------



## acguitar84

@ruthieandjohn, thanks for the post. I have the grado PS1000e and I don't use them that much, simply because the Jotunheim/Mimby seems too "bright" with them, but the Jot sounds fine with the HD650. It's nice to read about Grado headphones (albeit the higher up balanced ones) making beautiful music with a Schiit amp!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Although I dislike the Grado sound, The MJ/GM stack drives the GS1000 at the Schiitr better than I've ever heard it driven.


----------



## EDMlord

Just wanted to let you all know that beyerdynamic amiron home sounds fantastic out of mj2 + gumby in balanced. Very dynamic, realistic, and life like presentation with a nice amount of body, no hint of fatigue after hours of listening. 

Does anyone have an opinion on how the schiit stack pairs with hd800s and hd650? Really wondering how they sound in compairson to the amiron + schiit combo.


----------



## tjl5709

EDMlord said:


> Does anyone have an opinion on how the schiit stack pairs with hd800s and hd650? Really wondering how they sound in compairson to the amiron + schiit combo.



Got them both. They sound wonderful on the gumby/mj2 stack.


----------



## me2621a

So my MJ2 came in on Saturday and I had a chance to set it up and have been listening for about 8 hours now. All I have to say is wow, this is a really great amp when paired with the LCD-3’s and Ether Flows. Love the way it looks stacked on top of my Gumby. I will say though, that the stock tubes are defiantly just ok, in the sense that they allow you to turn the amp on. I know many have said this, but step one is to get a set of decent NOS tubes. Luckily I had two sets waiting for the amp when it arrived. A pair of National 7DJ8s and a pair of Tungsram 6922s both from upscale audio. I will say the National 7DJ8s are a steal and a perfect match for this amp. I found the music just intoxicating to listen to, and at 35 a tube I would say it is a must have upgrade and the perfect place to start. The Tungsrams are also nice, but I am still making up my mind on them (which is a little sad at $100 a tube). The top end and bottom end are much more extended then the stock tubes and the Nationals but the sound stage feels small compared to the nationals and at times the Midrange feels thin (on the Ether Flows, mind you the Nationals felt just slightly thick on the LCD-3 on the midrange, so this could mean the Tungsrams are just more nuetral and letting the headphone do its thing). The Tungsrams only have about 29 hours on them (25 hours from Upscale Audio) so I am hoping they will open up with another 10 - 15 hours.

Simply put I love the amp, and it works great with the LCD-3 and Ether Flow, and hopefully my new pair of Grado PS1000e’s when they arrive later this week. The stack also goes great with my Gallos


----------



## cgsound

Hello, I bought my Mjolnir2/Gungnir combo 3 years ago. Couple months ago I started to get crackling noise out of my amp. It got worst and worst to a point where I sent it back to Schiit. Unfortunately they didn't hear/see anything wrong with it and sent it back to me. Does anybody had similar experience or could point me out to similar cases where I could find help?

Thanks!


----------



## roshambo

cgsound said:


> Hello, I bought my Mjolnir2/Gungnir combo 3 years ago. Couple months ago I started to get crackling noise out of my amp. It got worst and worst to a point where I sent it back to Schiit. Unfortunately they didn't hear/see anything wrong with it and sent it back to me. Does anybody had similar experience or could point me out to similar cases where I could find help?
> 
> Thanks!



My first thought is possibly a bad cable. Does it happen equally on both channels? Does turning the pot cause crackling?

If you have spare cables perhaps I’d try swapping the  connections between the gungnir and MJ2 first.


----------



## cgsound

Thanks Roshambo for the quick answer. It only happen on the right socket. I also noticed that when I was touching/pushing in the LISST or tubes, there was a red/orange led close to the LISST/tube on the right that was fluctuating. I ordered a 2m(minimum length to my pc) Straight Wire usb cable to replace the very long and cheap usb cable I was using. Should get it this Friday.


----------



## cgsound

I also tryed balanced and non balanced headphones and I got the same scratching/crackling horrible noise. Could it be that both pair of cables(Rca and balanced) were pluged at the same time?


----------



## roshambo

cgsound said:


> Thanks Roshambo for the quick answer. It only happen on the right socket. I also noticed that when I was touching/pushing in the LISST or tubes, there was a red/orange led close to the LISST/tube on the right that was fluctuating. I ordered a 2m(minimum length to my pc) Straight Wire usb cable to replace the very long and cheap usb cable I was using. Should get it this Friday.



If you're seeing the LED's on the PCB on, is the power on while you're rolling tubes?


----------



## roshambo

roshambo said:


> If you're seeing the LED's on the PCB on, is the power on while you're rolling tubes?



Or you're just pushing on the tube while it's on? Which would make more sense. Do you get a bunch of crackling when pushing on the tube/LISST in the right socket?


----------



## cgsound

Yes, exactly. Just tapping gently or even touching the tube/LISST can start a gradual crackling noise.


----------



## roshambo

Does the crackling happen with the tube is cold, and become worse when it gets really hot?


----------



## cgsound

When the problem started it was maybe a little worst cold but eventually didn't make a difference.


----------



## roshambo

Do any components look loose, like the tube socket itself or caps, resistors etc?

What type of environment is the amp in? Is there potentially dust in one the pinholes in the right tube socket?


----------



## cgsound

My amp is in the mail back from Schiit, I should get it in one or two days so unfortunately I cant test it right now. I use socket savers. Swapping the sockets didn't change anything. Pretty sure I checked all connections, but plugging everything back together Ill make sure to double check all connections. I do have a cat but usually I make sure to dust around my amp once in while, overall pretty clean environment. My amp and dac are plugged in a power bar, could that be a possible cause of my problems?


----------



## roshambo

Worth checking out at this point. 

Only crackling I've dealt with from Schiit was when I got my Vali 2 I thought it was broken because the audio would crackle on both channels intermittently and often when I turned the pot. Turned out to be a bad RCA cable.


----------



## cgsound

Ok. Good to know. Ill test everything when I get my amp back and let you know. Meanwhile if anybody have experience to share about that kind of problem, please let me know.

Thanks a bunch!


----------



## EDMlord

Any word on how long warm up time the mj2 needs? I usually turn it on around 20 minutes before use (with tubes), but I'm not sure if this is correct.


----------



## JohnnyCanuck

EDMlord said:


> Any word on how long warm up time the mj2 needs? I usually turn it on around 20 minutes before use (with tubes), but I'm not sure if this is correct.



I turn my tubed amps on 15 minutes before use, myself.

JC


----------



## cgsound (Mar 17, 2018)

My Mjolnir2 came back and and everything seemed ok, no crackling sound. Left everything plugged on with low volume and I went away in our leaving room for a snack. Maybe half a hour later I heard this horrible scraching sound comming from the room where my amp is. Ran to it, unplugged my AKT5p headphones. One driver was blowned up  Did a hour of plug-unplug test to realise that it was the power from my powerbar that was responsable for the problem. Plugged directly in the wall seemed alot better. I went to buy a Furman power conditioner PST-2+6(...a good power bar) and now the crackling noise is almost completely gone.

Any advice on a real solution for clean power, power conditioner models?

Thanks!


----------



## roshambo

cgsound said:


> My Mjolnir2 came back and and everything seemed ok, no crackling sound. Left everything plugged on with low volume and I went away in our leaving room for a snack. Maybe half a hour later I heard this horrible scraching sound comming from the room where my amp is. Ran to it, unplugged my AKT5p headphones. One driver was blowned up  Did a hour of plug-unplug test to realise that it was the power from my powerbar that was responsable for the problem. Plugged directly in the wall seemed alot better. I went to buy a Furman power conditioner PST-2+6(...a good power bar) and now the crackling noise is almost completely gone.
> 
> Any advice on a real solution for clean power, power conditioner models?
> 
> Thanks!



Damn! I'm really sorry man, that's such terrible luck. The problem develops over such a long period and then this happens


----------



## cgsound

Bad luck indeed. And the problem is not completly fix still. Someone at Schiit suggested to try Emotica CMX-2, wich I ordered. Just as I'm writting this, my right channel started to do some bad scratching sound again. I closed the amp, unplugged/repluged the tube from the socket saver and the ploblem seems gone...for now. Gosh I miss the time that listening to my schiit stack was relaxing

I wish someone with similar/same experience could tell me what to do.


----------



## koover

cgsound said:


> Bad luck indeed. And the problem is not completly fix still. Someone at Schiit suggested to try Emotica CMX-2, wich I ordered. Just as I'm writting this, my right channel started to do some bad scratching sound again. I closed the amp, unplugged/repluged the tube from the socket saver and the ploblem seems gone...for now. Gosh I miss the time that listening to my schiit stack was relaxing
> 
> I wish someone with similar/same experience could tell me what to do.


Tube issue? Did you roll anything else and is this same tube you had in when all these problems arose?


----------



## cgsound

I have 6C8G VT163 1940's Tungsol plugged in right now(which I really like by the way . Cant remember what tubes I had when I first heard the crackling noise. I did roll multiple tubes in including LYSST and multiple socket savers and the problem was more or less present with all of them.


----------



## cgsound

Something interesting just happened. The crackling just came back on the right socket. Just for fun I swapped the one of the two top socket savers and the crackling followed the socket saver. So I deduct that my problem is caused(in part) by a bad socket saver. Make sense? Do socket saver are often cause of crackling noises? Could my previous electric setup(powerbar) damaged a socket saver?

I`m back on a sweet pair of western electric since I don't have the extra socket saver needed for the 6c8g.


----------



## me2621a

Hey guys,
Question, has anyone rolled a 6sn7 tube into their MJOLNIR 2, I see they make adapters for 6922 to 6sn7 but I am not sure how to judge compatibility. Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## Phantaminum

me2621a said:


> Hey guys,
> Question, has anyone rolled a 6sn7 tube into their MJOLNIR 2, I see they make adapters for 6922 to 6sn7 but I am not sure how to judge compatibility. Any help would be appreciated.



You won't be able to roll 6SN7 tubes in the MJ2 but you can roll 6C8G tubes with the proper adapters. 

These are other tubes you can roll in the MJ2 with the right adapters:
396A/2c51/5670
6N3Ps


----------



## koover

Hello,
Can anyone give any comparisons between Mjolnir and LYR2? Id like to upgrade but need to know first if it’s worth it. I’d appreciate any feedback.


----------



## roshambo

koover said:


> Hello,
> Can anyone give any comparisons between Mjolnir and LYR2? Id like to upgrade but need to know first if it’s worth it. I’d appreciate any feedback.



What headphones were you going to use with them? For the planars, I'd question the value of the upgrade, but someone else can comment on that. Listening on HD800's, MJ2 balanced is more dynamic and harder hitting than Lyr 2.


----------



## Phasor

roshambo said:


> What headphones were you going to use with them? For the planars, I'd question the value of the upgrade, but someone else can comment on that. Listening on HD800's, MJ2 balanced is more dynamic and harder hitting than Lyr 2.



I concur with @roshambo. I had the Lyr2 and upgraded to the MJ2 and to my ears their was an improvement. However, any thing sound related is subjective and YMMV. But I do not think that you would be disappointed in the upgrade.


----------



## koover

roshambo said:


> What headphones were you going to use with them? For the planars, I'd question the value of the upgrade, but someone else can comment on that. Listening on HD800's, MJ2 balanced is more dynamic and harder hitting than Lyr 2.


I'll be using all the headphones in my sig. I'll sell the LYR2 and Jot but keep the Ember because I really like this little amp.



Phasor said:


> I concur with @roshambo. I had the Lyr2 and upgraded to the MJ2 and to my ears their was an improvement. However, any thing sound related is subjective and YMMV. But I do not think that you would be disappointed in the upgrade.


That's good to hear. I understand what we hear is so very personal and subjective, but it's just I really don't want to spend all the cash and have minimal sound upgrade. Another wrinkle into the equation is I'm thinking about also picking up a Gumby. So I'd be going from a Mimby/LYR2 to the Mjolnir/Gumby.  Will that change your opinion, or still the same? It's so difficult to ask this questions because I truly know it's all subjective but there's no way of test driving this combo.
I appreciate both of your responses. But sell me guys!


----------



## ruthieandjohn (Mar 29, 2018)

I recently upgraded from my Bifrost Multibit / Lyr2 to Gungir Multibit / Mjolnir 2.  I did this to have a fully balanced DAC and amp to drive my recently-purchased balanced Grado PS2000e and GS2000e headphones.

I did not have both at once, as I sold the first pair to buy the second pair, but working from memory, either pair soiunded good.  I did not notice any big improvement in sound.

However, neither the Lyr2 nor the Mjolnir2 sound as good as my HiFiMAN EF-6 for my HiFiMAN HE1000 headphones,  This is using either the stock tubes or the LISST solid state replacements in the Mjolnir.   I also have a pair of Amperex Orange Globes I will try in the Mjolnir2 before I finally declare it inferior to the HiFiMAN EF-6, but I am not optimistic.

Oh, and the Grados sound a bit better on the HIFIMAN EF-6 as well to me!


----------



## Charente

koover said:


> Hello,
> Can anyone give any comparisons between Mjolnir and LYR2? Id like to upgrade but need to know first if it’s worth it. I’d appreciate any feedback.



I have both LYR2 and Mjolnir 2 using AFO (with Forza Audioworks Noir Mk2 cable which, incidentally, is a worthwhile upgrade to the stock cable)... MJ2 certainly has a better grip on the presentation ...more authoritative, if you like. However, I do still enjoy using LYR2 with AFO ... it is a somewhat 'lighter' presentation, not quite as full-bodied nor quite as warm, although we aren't talking a huge difference in warmth and this will depend on tubes to a degree.


----------



## koover (Mar 29, 2018)

I landed up buying the Mjolnir 
I’ll be selling my LYR2 and Jot (no DAC) now.
Before I post, if anyone’s interested, PM me.


----------



## tjl5709

koover said:


> I landed up buying the Mjolnir
> I’ll be selling my LYR2 and Jot (no DAC) now.
> Before I post, if anyone’s interested, PM me.



You won't regret it.

On that note, did you upgrade the tubes in the Lyr2 with some NOS's that you will transfer to the MJ2? 

If not, do so.


----------



## roshambo

koover said:


> I landed up buying the Mjolnir
> I’ll be selling my LYR2 and Jot (no DAC) now.
> Before I post, if anyone’s interested, PM me.



Congrats! The MJ2 is great. Definitely agree with tjl5709, the stock tubes are a pale shadow of what the amp is capable of.


----------



## me2621a

So I finally broke down and got the Telefunken 6922’s from Upscale Audio, honestly the idea of buying tubes that expensive seemed so stupid.... and I was just plain wrong. I have the Nationals 7dj8’s and 6dj8’s and the Tunsgram 6922s as well. MJ2 owners need to go out and get yourself some NOS Nationals, it will be the best $50 dollars you have ever spent, they are awesome and way above the stock tubes, man they have a great midrange. The Tunsgram 6922s were good, they were more aggressive in the top and bottom, but they were missing in my opinion the magical midrange of the Nationals and for their price ($200) I was a bit disappointed. On the other hand the Telefunkens (gotten from a friend for $300 un-used) were a shock in every way. The midrange was amazing, the image was amazing, the highs and lows were amazing, the viel was lifted, the eagle landed, the foot started tapping and I lost myself in the music. They were that good, and to me made the MJ2 sound like a totally different amp. Again all of the above is my subjective opinion, but I was quite amazed by the transformation. 

Now all of this being said the Nationals are at least 80% of the Telefunkens, but that extra 20% added that little bit more clarity, and that magic midrange mixed with the top and bottom end that made me forget I was wearing headphones.


----------



## koover

tjl5709 said:


> You won't regret it.
> 
> On that note, did you upgrade the tubes in the Lyr2 with some NOS's that you will transfer to the MJ2?
> 
> If not, do so.





roshambo said:


> Congrats! The MJ2 is great. Definitely agree with tjl5709, the stock tubes are a pale shadow of what the amp is capable of.



Thanx guys. If you look at my profile, you’ll have your answer


----------



## roshambo

koover said:


> Thanx guys. If you look at my profile, you’ll have your answer



Well that answers that. I'd roll some of those 6N3P's.


----------



## rmoody

me2621a said:


> So I finally broke down and got the Telefunken 6922’s from Upscale Audio, honestly the idea of buying tubes that expensive seemed so stupid.... and I was just plain wrong. I have the Nationals 7dj8’s and 6dj8’s and the Tunsgram 6922s as well. MJ2 owners need to go out and get yourself some NOS Nationals, it will be the best $50 dollars you have ever spent, they are awesome and way above the stock tubes, man they have a great midrange. The Tunsgram 6922s were good, they were more aggressive in the top and bottom, but they were missing in my opinion the magical midrange of the Nationals and for their price ($200) I was a bit disappointed. On the other hand the Telefunkens (gotten from a friend for $300 un-used) were a shock in every way. The midrange was amazing, the image was amazing, the highs and lows were amazing, the viel was lifted, the eagle landed, the foot started tapping and I lost myself in the music. They were that good, and to me made the MJ2 sound like a totally different amp. Again all of the above is my subjective opinion, but I was quite amazed by the transformation.
> 
> Now all of this being said the Nationals are at least 80% of the Telefunkens, but that extra 20% added that little bit more clarity, and that magic midrange mixed with the top and bottom end that made me forget I was wearing headphones.



Are these the National tubes you are referring to?

https://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/matsushita-national-pcc88-7dj8

And these the revered Telefunken?

https://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/telefunken-e88cc-6922


----------



## me2621a

rmoody said:


> Are these the National tubes you are referring to?
> 
> https://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/matsu****a-national-pcc88-7dj8
> 
> ...



Yep those are the ones. Though I also have a pair of Nationals bought off eBay (6dj8s) that were cheaper that sound about the same, but upscale audio does a great job sorting things and ensuring quality. My only warning is that there are no returns (I know we probably all know this) so just keep that in mind if you are thinking of getting the Telefunkens


----------



## FLTWS

me2621a said:


> So I finally broke down and got the Telefunken 6922’s from Upscale Audio, honestly the idea of buying tubes that expensive seemed so stupid.... and I was just plain wrong. I have the Nationals 7dj8’s and 6dj8’s and the Tunsgram 6922s as well. MJ2 owners need to go out and get yourself some NOS Nationals, it will be the best $50 dollars you have ever spent, they are awesome and way above the stock tubes, man they have a great midrange. The Tunsgram 6922s were good, they were more aggressive in the top and bottom, but they were missing in my opinion the magical midrange of the Nationals and for their price ($200) I was a bit disappointed. On the other hand the Telefunkens (gotten from a friend for $300 un-used) were a shock in every way. The midrange was amazing, the image was amazing, the highs and lows were amazing, the viel was lifted, the eagle landed, the foot started tapping and I lost myself in the music. They were that good, and to me made the MJ2 sound like a totally different amp. Again all of the above is my subjective opinion, but I was quite amazed by the transformation.
> 
> Now all of this being said the Nationals are at least 80% of the Telefunkens, but that extra 20% added that little bit more clarity, and that magic midrange mixed with the top and bottom end that made me forget I was wearing headphones.



Yep, those Tele's are great, so are the Amperex Jan 7308. I also like the iFi GE JAN 5670W for cost effectiveness.


----------



## koover

koover said:


> I landed up buying the Mjolnir
> I’ll be selling my LYR2 and Jot (no DAC) now.
> Before I post, if anyone’s interested, PM me.


Hate quoting myself but I guess I got the bug. I also decided to upgrade to Gen5 Gumby. This all started with a lot of interest in a Loki. How does this happen?


----------



## rnros

koover said:


> I landed up buying the Mjolnir
> I’ll be selling my LYR2 and Jot (no DAC) now.
> Before I post, if anyone’s interested, PM me.



Congrats, MJ2 is a wonderful amp, especially paired with GMB.
Now you will have go through your entire tube collection again! 
But the bliss factor will be higher. : )


----------



## rnros (Mar 30, 2018)

koover said:


> Hate quoting myself but I guess I got the bug. I also decided to upgrade to Gen5 Gumby. This all started with a lot of interest in a Loki. How does this happen?



Magic, and schiit, just happen. Can't explain it.


----------



## Phantaminum

rnros said:


> Congrats, MJ2 is a wonderful amp, especially paired with GMB.
> Now you will have go through your entire tube collection again!
> But the bliss factor will be higher. : )



I'm hoping so. We can get good feedback from his Lyr2 -> MJ2 upgrade and if he can tell any differences in tube changes. I think from what I've read on this upgrade is that tubes affect the MJ2 sound more than that of the Lyr 2. He may be out of commission for a while once he starts tube rolling again.


----------



## rnros

Phantaminum said:


> I'm hoping so. We can get good feedback from his Lyr2 -> MJ2 upgrade and if he can tell any differences in tube changes. I think from what I've read on this upgrade is that tubes affect the MJ2 sound more than that of the Lyr 2. He may be out of commission for a while once he starts tube rolling again.



No question about the step up in SQ with the MJ2.
Always IMHO, but I do have the MJ2 along with the Lyr2, and Lyr 1.
That is when fed from the GMB.


----------



## koover

rnros said:


> No question about the step up in SQ with the MJ2.
> Always IMHO, but I do have the MJ2 along with the Lyr2, and Lyr 1.
> That is when fed from the GMB.


You use both LYR’s and the Mjolnir? Different HP’s with each amp? Interesting.
If I like the MJ2 the way I believe I will, I’m losing the LYR2 AND Jot. I just need to a/b the MJ2 with LSST tubes versus Jot feeding through Gumby.


----------



## koover (Mar 30, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> I'm hoping so. We can get good feedback from his Lyr2 -> MJ2 upgrade and if he can tell any differences in tube changes. I think from what I've read on this upgrade is that tubes affect the MJ2 sound more than that of the Lyr 2. He may be out of commission for a while once he starts tube rolling again.


Oh yeah. I could grow my goatee to ZZ Top levels and not be heard from for weeks.
In all seriousness, I’m pretty stoked. It’s a big upgrade with both Amp and DAC. The rolling piece is going to be fun to find out what’s the best match for each HP.
I just need to sell the LYR2, Jot and Mimby. Don’t think it’ll be a problem. Wonder if someone would buy as package deal (all 3) WITH some tubes?


----------



## Charente

koover said:


> You use both LYR’s and the Mjolnir? Different HP’s with each amp? Interesting.
> If I like the MJ2 the way I believe I will, I’m losing the LYR2 AND Jot. I just need to a/b the MJ2 with LSST tubes versus Jot feeding through Gumby.



I tried LISST with MJ2 ... they're OK to run in the amp ... but as a tube person, I suspect your a/b test will be short-lived ... I could be wrong of course !


----------



## koover

Charente said:


> I tried LISST with MJ2 ... they're OK to run in the amp ... but as a tube person, I suspect your a/b test will be short-lived ... I could be wrong of course !


I doubt your instincts are wrong. As
much as I love the Jot, it sits idle and is never used. If the LSST can get me semi close to a SS amp sound signature, it’ll be alright as I won’t use it much anyway. Maybe never.


----------



## tjl5709

Just a note to those curious about the move from Lyr2 to MJ2. I kept my Lyr2 when I moved up as a secondary kit. I ran into a switch issue with the MJ2 requiring me to send it back for repairs. Had to use the Lyr2 for a time. My take. Mids were equal for clarity and tone. Voices sounded wonderful. The difference was on the top and bottom. Highs on the MJ2 are significantly clearer and smoother. Bottom-end has more clarity and impact. DAC is Yggy. HP's were Ether Flow C and HD800s.


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> edHate quoting myself but I guess I got the bug. I also decided to upgrade to Gen5 Gumby. This all started with a lot of interest in a Loki. How does this happen?


Think you will be blown away with that combo. Both are significant upgrades from what you are currently using. Tubes play a much larger role in the sound vs the Lyr 2. The Lyr2 sounds congested sound wise vs the MJ2 imo. The AFO can be run in SE with plenty of power. My Hifiman cans benefited from high gain, the others run fine in low gain balanced.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Now that I've relegated MJ2 to Sennheiser duty, I don't really touch high gain at all. Still has the utmost clarity though.


----------



## koover

Received my Mjolnir2 today and from the few hours I’ve been listening, it most definitely is quite the step up from the LYR2. I’ve put on an hour + with both the AFO and HE560 and sweet lord, I’m discovery my music once more, even again. Each upgrade is very noticeable. It’s not as stuffy/congested/closed in as the LYR2 and I thought it sounded great before the MJ2. The SS on the HE 560 got even bigger. The separation, decay in the bass and cymbals is most noticeable. There’s just a lot more space between each note and clash. To me, the quality of a headphone, DAC AND amp can be heard in the cymbals. The MJ2 loses most to all of the digital type sound of all cymbal hits. I was getting goosebumps at times. It also helps when you roll in a early 60’s JW WE. So far so very good. This is running with a Mimby too as I’m waiting on a few sellers answers on a Gumby I’m gonna pic up as soon as someone bites. The Mimby looks like a little toy sitting up on top.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I find perversely that I get worse at reviewing products that I own the longer that I have them. In time, they synergize with my experience of music as such, so that I have difficulty separating Mahler from HD800 and Vivaldi from K1000. I've had HD800 for going on three years, but it is so familiar that writing a thorough review would be unbelievably challenging. Its unique abilities no longer stand out.


----------



## roshambo (Apr 2, 2018)

koover said:


> Received my Mjolnir2 today and from the few hours I’ve been listening, it most definitely is quite the step up from the LYR2. I’ve put on an hour + with both the AFO and HE560 and sweet lord, I’m discovery my music once more, even again. Each upgrade is very noticeable. It’s not as stuffy/congested/closed in as the LYR2 and I thought it sounded great before the MJ2. The SS on the HE 560 got even bigger. The separation, decay in the bass and cymbals is most noticeable. There’s just a lot more space between each note and clash. To me, the quality of a headphone, DAC AND amp can be heard in the cymbals. The MJ2 loses most to all of the digital type sound of all cymbal hits. I was getting goosebumps at times. It also helps when you roll in a early 60’s JW WE. So far so very good. This is running with a Mimby too as I’m waiting on a few sellers answers on a Gumby I’m gonna pic up as soon as someone bites. The Mimby looks like a little toy sitting up on top.



Same setup here, but Mimby has Loki and Wyrd so it isn't as lonely. If you can avoid selling the Mimby until you get your Gumby I'd be interested to hear your impressions. I have heard Gumby on MJ2 but it was with stock tubes, and it was fatigue-inducing. I actually preferred Mimby to take the edge off.


----------



## koover

roshambo said:


> Same setup here, but Mimby has Loki and Wyrd so it isn't as lonely. If you can avoid selling the Mimby until you get your Gumby I'd be interested to hear your impressions. I have heard Gumby on MJ2 but it was with stock tubes, but it was fatigue-inducing, and I actually preferred Mimby to take the edge off.


Sure thing. Yeah, I won't sell the Mimby until I have the Gumby. I'll get plenty of head-time with the Mimby in the time being.


----------



## acguitar84

You have a jot too right? Any comparisons between the jot and mj2? I wonder if it would be with it to upgrade so to speak. On my headphone rig I use mimby/jot/HD650. Thanks!


----------



## scottsays

I am in the process of researching for my next amp. I currently own the Teac Ha-500 which I like but want to take it to the next level.
I am considering the Mjolnir 2  and the Beyer A2. I was hoping someone may have some experience with each model and give me a recommendation---thank you--Scott


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'm using the pre-outs for my KSE1500 and the effect is wonderful. Detailed, transparent, and musical. I have a new appreciation for Jason's ability to create a supremely quiet noise floor. If i use the balanced pre-outs for any future powered monitors, MJ2 might be my end-game solution. The Portal Panache, though wonderful, is really only useful for my K1000, and even there, the sound difference is narrow—certainly not worth the $800 or $900 that I paid for it. I will keep it on the off-chance that I ever get passive speakers, but it's getting a lot less ear-time than the trusty MJ2, and not least because my HE-6 seems to find itself resolutely left in the drawer.


----------



## roshambo

Nice light on my MJ2 this morning


----------



## koover

Help please.
Have an issue. Got the balanced Schiit PYST cables, connected them. Pretty simple. I'm still running SE with Headphones until I get my balanced cables within the next few days. 
The issue is when I flipped the toggle on the MJ2 to high gain for the AFO, there is a huge channel imbalance. Actually on every headphone I tried on high gain there's the same very large imbalance. The left channel (I believe the left earcup is left channel? ) is twice as loud. The cables are connected correctly with R balanced in>R balanced out, Repeat with left.
Any insight guys as this isn't going to work.


----------



## roshambo

koover said:


> Help please.
> Have an issue. Got the balanced Schiit PYST cables, connected them. Pretty simple. I'm still running SE with Headphones until I get my balanced cables within the next few days.
> The issue is when I flipped the toggle on the MJ2 to high gain for the AFO, there is a huge channel imbalance. Actually on every headphone I tried on high gain there's the same very large imbalance. The left channel (I believe the left earcup is left channel? ) is twice as loud. The cables are connected correctly with R balanced in>R balanced out, Repeat with left.
> Any insight guys as this isn't going to work.



Even when you roll tubes?


----------



## koover (Apr 10, 2018)

Haven't rolled any since I just swapped out the cables 15 minutes ago. These tubes were working fine for the past few days they've been in there and before work this morning on both low/high gain. This "just" happened when I swapped out cables.

Edit: For $hit$ and giggles, I’ll roll in another set.
Edit 2: that still doesn’t make sense as both low/high gain have perfect balance when running SE


----------



## roshambo

koover said:


> Haven't rolled any since I just swapped out the cables 15 minutes ago. These tubes were working fine for the past few days they've been in there and before work this morning on both low/high gain. This "just" happened when I swapped out cables.
> 
> For $hit$ and giggles, I roll in another set.



If you roll your cables (ie. put red on white / white on red) does the imbalance shift to the other channel?


----------



## koover

I’ll check


----------



## roshambo

And Just full disclosure and most likely not your problem, but last time I troubleshot an MJ2 someone (they had a buzz, not one channel is hotter than the other like you) they learned they had a power issue. Unfortunately, they didn't learn this before they blew a driver on an expensive set of headphones. So perhaps plug in a  cheaper headset while testing?


----------



## koover

OK, just forget I even posted this. I feel like a total schmuck as this is rookie all the way.
It was the tubes. Obviously the GE 5670 D getters don't want to play nice in high gain balanced. I just rolled in a set of JW WE and it works like a charm.
Ok splain to me as my tube knowledge obviously isn't where I thought it may have gone. Can tubes work fine in low/high gain SE but once you go balanced, they don't want to play nice?


----------



## roshambo

koover said:


> OK, just forget I even posted this. I feel like a total schmuck as this is rookie all the way.
> It was the tubes. Obviously the GE 5670 D getters don't want to play nice in high gain balanced. I just rolled in a set of JW WE and it works like a charm.
> Ok splain to me as my tube knowledge obviously isn't where I thought it may have gone. Can tubes work fine in low/high gain SE but once you go balanced, they don't want to play nice?



Cool! Glad it was simple.


----------



## cgsound

For common knowledge, as Roshambo was saying I had power issues that caused(in part) one AKT5p drivers to bust.  I think the other part of the problem was the Ken-Rad I was using. The bad crakcling sound came back but a little less strong. I haven't used my Ken-Rad in two weeks scared to break my other headphones(LCD2). I have been on a pair of 6n3p-E for the last weeks without any problems. I`m starting to relax again listening to my MJ2.

Now that I read the latest posts, I realize that my MJ2 is(and was) on Hi gain could it be that we shouldn't use 6C8G tubes on the MJ2 at Hi gain?


----------



## koover

cgsound said:


> For common knowledge, as Roshambo was saying I had power issues that caused(in part) one AKT5p drivers to bust.  I think the other part of the problem was the Ken-Rad I was using. The bad crakcling sound came back but a little less strong. I haven't used my Ken-Rad in two weeks scared to break my other headphones(LCD2). I have been on a pair of 6n3p-E for the last weeks without any problems. I`m starting to relax again listening to my MJ2.
> 
> Now that I read the latest posts, I realize that my MJ2 is(and was) on Hi gain could it be that we shouldn't use 6C8G tubes on the MJ2 at Hi gain?


That's an interesting question. I think my situation was odd how that particular tube was just fine running SE on low/high gain before I swapped out the SE to XLR cables between MJ2 and Gumby. Bad tubes? Your tube you're talking about is a completely different tube I was using.


----------



## cgsound

It did the same king of bad crackling noise with a pair of TungSols. It could also be bad 6C8G adapters. I only have one pair of those so its hard for me to say. Ill wait a little bit before doing other tests. I have to say that its pretty amazing for me how tube rolling became stressful


----------



## Eldair

Not sure but could it be that SE send 2.0 v for MJ2 and balanced 4.0v? Too much voltage for those tubes.


----------



## clundbe

Hi. I am new at this Mjølnir 2 thread. Have anyone heard any news about a Mjølnir 3 being released? 
Best, Christian


----------



## Audiofiend1

Would you guys consider the Mjolnir 2 to be an end game amp?


----------



## winders

Audiofiend1 said:


> Would you guys consider the Mjolnir 2 to be an end game amp?



No....I like the Lyr 3 better. 

An end game headphone amp to me is something like the Eddie Current Aficionado.


----------



## Rowethren

I am waiting for the Mjolnir 3* with the Lyr 3 design. That should be something! 

*might not happen but it seems likely to me.


----------



## Audiofiend1

I went ahead and ordered the Mjolnir 2 + Gumby multi stack and am awaiting the shipment still. I have some questions if someone could answer would be very grateful.  
My PC has USB and S/PDIF coaxial ports, which of these should i use to connect to the Mjolnir? 

Secondly, ss far as i understand i will connect the Mjolnir to the gumby dac with the use of a XLR cable or a RCA cable, but it is best to use a XLR cable am i right?


----------



## Phantaminum

Audiofiend1 said:


> I went ahead and ordered the Mjolnir 2 + Gumby multi stack and am awaiting the shipment still. I have some questions if someone could answer would be very grateful.
> My PC has USB and S/PDIF coaxial ports, which of these should i use to connect to the Mjolnir?
> 
> Secondly, ss far as i understand i will connect the Mjolnir to the gumby dac with the use of a XLR cable or a RCA cable, but it is best to use a XLR cable am i right?



If you ordered it directly from Schiit the Gumby will come with Gen 5 usb. Connect directly from your PC to the Gumby then either RCA or XLR to the MJ2. You’ll be ready to rock then.


----------



## BillOhio

Audiofiend1 said:


> I went ahead and ordered the Mjolnir 2 + Gumby multi stack and am awaiting the shipment still. I have some questions if someone could answer would be very grateful.
> My PC has USB and S/PDIF coaxial ports, which of these should i use to connect to the Mjolnir?
> 
> Secondly, ss far as i understand i will connect the Mjolnir to the gumby dac with the use of a XLR cable or a RCA cable, but it is best to use a XLR cable am i right?



I've been using Gumby/MJ2 for the last year and it didn't make much difference whether you use RCA or XLR. The DNA Stellaris is a $6,700 highly respected Amp that doesn't even offer a XLR input except as an option. RCA is fine.


----------



## Globox

XLR is way better then RCA in certain cases only :
 - If you have very long cable
 - If you have crap in your electricity (just like me)
and probably other cases.

For most people, it wont make any differents so.


----------



## ToTo Man

Question for Sennheiser HD600/650/660/700/800/800S owners, do you prefer Mjolnir2 in Low Gain or High Gain mode (assuming using balanced inputs and balanced outputs)?


----------



## koover

ToTo Man said:


> Question for Sennheiser HD600/650/660/700/800/800S owners, do you prefer Mjolnir2 in Low Gain or High Gain mode (assuming using balanced inputs and balanced outputs)?


Running balanced in and out with 650 on low gain sounds great. Powers it fine and it’s never sounded better.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Low for both 600 and 800, unless the source is extremely quiet (e.g. beginning of pantomime scene in Otello).


----------



## Audiofiend1

I just received my Mjolnir 2 and liking it so far! Question though is there a way to adjust the height of the tubes? I am currently using the stock tubes but when i insert them they are all the way in with only the silver caps sticking out so i can't see those beautiful tubes  Do i need to buy different tubes or is there a way to adjust the height on the Mjolnir? Also what are some nice tubes to get? I like a warmer sounding signature with some bass.


----------



## Charente

Audiofiend1 said:


> ... or is there a way to adjust the height on the Mjolnir?.



Some people use Tube Savers ... I have 5670>6922 converters in to accommodate the 5670 family of tubes (they have different pin arrangements ... both the savers and converters make the tubes sit higher.


----------



## Phantaminum (May 3, 2018)

Audiofiend1 said:


> I just received my Mjolnir 2 and liking it so far! Question though is there a way to adjust the height of the tubes? I am currently using the stock tubes but when i insert them they are all the way in with only the silver caps sticking out so i can't see those beautiful tubes  Do i need to buy different tubes or is there a way to adjust the height on the Mjolnir? Also what are some nice tubes to get? I like a warmer sounding signature with some bass.



Tube Monger socket savers. They’re expensive but worth every penny. It keeps the case cool, are well made, and TM will replace any you run into issues with.

A post in another audio forum killed his Massdrop Cavalli Tube Hybrid with a socket saver from China. After he opened the socket saver he saw that there was solder that had connected two of the pins and shorted it out.

Link: http://www.tubemonger.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=NOVIB-McMurdo


----------



## Globox

Phantaminum said:


> It keeps the case cool


Is this a good thing BTW ?
I mean, if the case is hot, it means the tube are cooler. With tube monger, the tube will be hotter ?

So is it better to have the heat in the tubes or in the case ?

I dont have the answer of the question !


----------



## Phantaminum

Globox said:


> Is this a good thing BTW ?
> I mean, if the case is hot, it means the tube are cooler. With tube monger, the tube will be hotter ?
> 
> So is it better to have the heat in the tubes or in the case ?
> ...



Really depends on your preference. I prefer the case cool and the socket savers are great since I was tube rolling like crazy. Saves the main sockets on the Mjolnir 2.

The ceiling fan I have provides enough air flow for the heat. Shouldn’t be an issue inside or outside the amp.


----------



## Audiofiend1

Phantaminum said:


> Tube Monger socket savers. They’re expensive but worth every penny. It keeps the case cool, are well made, and TM will replace any you run into issues with.
> 
> A post in another audio forum killed his Massdrop Cavalli Tube Hybrid with a socket saver from China. After he opened the socket saver he saw that there was solder that had connected two of the pins and shorted it out.
> 
> Link: http://www.tubemonger.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=NOVIB-McMurdo


I went ahead and got 2 of those they look solid.

I also heard a lot of good things about these tubes and am thinking i might buy them - http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1206
Can anyone offer any insight into these tubes??


----------



## Phantaminum (May 3, 2018)

Audiofiend1 said:


> I went ahead and got 2 of those they look solid.
> 
> I also heard a lot of good things about these tubes and am thinking i might buy them - http://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1206
> Can anyone offer any insight into these tubes??



Here is where you start what most of us tube addicts call *"tube rolling"* 

A great recommendation is to purchase the 6n3p adapter to e88cc. You can buy some fantastic Russian tubes for cheap that sound almost as great as some of the holy grail tubes for pennies on the dollar. Hit up Auditory Canvas for some nicely matched and cheap priced Russian tubes. Russian tubes can go from $30 a pair to $75. They do take much longer than normal 6922/E88CC tubes to burn in (around 100 hours) but they really open up towards the end.

You'll also want to find a pair of WE 396As or JW 396as/2c51s and a pair of Tung-Sol 2c51s. WEs/JWs have a wide sound stage and just sound great from the get go. These take about 30-50 hours to burn in.

Adapter: https://www.ebay.com/itm/191636111735?rmvSB=true

If you're wanting to really get into some of the nicer 6922/E88CC tubes I'd recommend not purchasing the Tube Monger stock and instead go to eBay. What you're looking for is 1950s Amperex either USA or Holland with the D-Getter. Those will cost you $250-275 but worth every penny.

Now the question is what type of sound do you like? Some examples:

Do you enjoy a more warmer but smooth sound: Amperex Holland/USA 50s or Amperex 7308s.

Do you enjoy a warm but SS type sound with a bit of euphony: Siemens E88CC/E188CC/CCa - Phillips E188CC

Mids pushed forward? Tung-Sol 2C51

Even frequency? Siemens E88CC

Great all arounder: WE396A or JW 2C51

Cheap but amazing: Russian tubes. I'd ask AC on which ones he'd recommend.

You'll have to experiment a bit to find a sound that you enjoy. Also drop by the Lyr Rolling thread. Great group of guys and a whole lot of tube info.


----------



## tjl5709

Phantaminum said:


> Here is where you start what most of us tube addicts call *"tube rolling"*
> 
> A great recommendation is to purchase the 6n3p adapter to e88cc. You can buy some fantastic Russian tubes for cheap that sound almost as great as some of the holy grail tubes for pennies on the dollar. Hit up Auditory Canvas for some nicely matched and cheap priced Russian tubes. Russian tubes can go from $30 a pair to $75. They do take much longer than normal 6922/E88CC tubes to burn in (around 100 hours) but they really open up towards the end.
> 
> ...





What he said.


----------



## Audiofiend1

Phantaminum said:


> Here is where you start what most of us tube addicts call *"tube rolling"*
> 
> A great recommendation is to purchase the 6n3p adapter to e88cc. You can buy some fantastic Russian tubes for cheap that sound almost as great as some of the holy grail tubes for pennies on the dollar. Hit up Auditory Canvas for some nicely matched and cheap priced Russian tubes. Russian tubes can go from $30 a pair to $75. They do take much longer than normal 6922/E88CC tubes to burn in (around 100 hours) but they really open up towards the end.
> 
> ...


Great post! Great input! 

I might be mad but i went on a bit of a umm... shopping spree and bought some tubes. I could not really resist to be honest, the Lisst tubes are nice but too neutral and i am not always in the mood for that. i need something with more Wow factor. Anyway...I prefer a warmer more smooth sound with highs that are quite tame. 

I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a NOS-NIB-Matched-Pair-Amperex-PQ-6922-E88CC-D-Getter-1959-USA-Gold-Pin, found it on Ebay selling from a trusted seller. It was pricey though it came to $355 with shipping and sales tax included so i better like this. At least i can return it for 30 days it was listed in their policy but i am hoping this will surprise me and this will be the one to have that warm and lush full bodied sound. If it can tame my HD800s treble somewhat and bring out the sub bass more i will really be impressed! 

I also bought a matched pair of GL-E88CC Genalex - Gold Lion E88CC / 6922 and a matched pair of JJ-E88CCG JJ E88CC / 6922 Gold Pin....so this should be enough tubes for now to really get me going i hope.

Still not sure what NOS and NIB means, does that mean it is a new tube or am i wrong?

I will probably start experimenting with some Russian tubes next but this is good for now until i feel more confident or the need for a different sound. Some of you veteran tube rollers are probably laughing, what did i just get myself into...


----------



## Globox

Audiofiend1 said:


> Still not sure what NOS and NIB means, does that mean it is a new tube or am i wrong?



NIB = New In Box : Brand new tubes with original box
NOS = New Old Stock : Brand new tubes without the box


----------



## Globox

BTW, is there any manufacturer that still make tubes ?
They always looks like to be made at least 30 years ago.


----------



## koover (May 4, 2018)

Globox said:


> NIB = New In Box : Brand new tubes with original box
> NOS = New Old Stock : Brand new tubes without the box


Actually NOS means new old stock but most of the time they’re in their original production box from the year they were made.


----------



## Phantaminum

Audiofiend1 said:


> Great post! Great input!
> 
> I might be mad but i went on a bit of a umm... shopping spree and bought some tubes. I could not really resist to be honest, the Lisst tubes are nice but too neutral and i am not always in the mood for that. i need something with more Wow factor. Anyway...I prefer a warmer more smooth sound with highs that are quite tame.
> 
> ...



I think you’ll like the Amperex but not sure how they pair well with the HD800s. Most people with the HD800s seem to really like the WE 396As since it smooths a bit of the highs. The Amperex are still smooth but may not roll the highs enough.

Let us know how you like the tubes.


----------



## Audiofiend1

Phantaminum said:


> I think you’ll like the Amperex but not sure how they pair well with the HD800s. Most people with the HD800s seem to really like the WE 396As since it smooths a bit of the highs. The Amperex are still smooth but may not roll the highs enough.
> 
> Let us know how you like the tubes.


It might be better for my LCD 2, will have to see and report back for sure. Otherwise the WE 396 is next up.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

yeah at some point I need to just buy a bunch of tubes. the sheer volume is always intimidating. i need a personal tube shopper.


----------



## Audiofiend1

One thing i can't seem to understand...If i listen with my HD800s and LCD 2 out my MJ2 + Gumby it sounds good, but when i plug in my Shure 846 and IE800 i can hear clear background noise (like the ocean) much worse so with my 846. I used the 1/4 audio jack for all tests. it also just does not sound good with either IEM, honestly sounds better out my Dragonfly red. i can't seem to figure out why this is so. When i plug in the over-ears i hear no background noise and it sounds fine.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

WHat do they sound like straight out of Gumby?


----------



## Audiofiend1

bosiemoncrieff said:


> WHat do they sound like straight out of Gumby?


Sorry i'm not sure what you mean, my gumby is connected to my MJ2. i have been listening out of the 3.5M Jack.


----------



## Rowethren

I think this noise is to be expected to be honest with really now impedance IEMs due to tubes and the high power output of the Mjolnir 2. What I did was to get an iFi IEMatch, problem solved, it is a really great device.


----------



## Audiofiend1

Rowethren said:


> I think this noise is to be expected to be honest with really now impedance IEMs due to tubes and the high power output of the Mjolnir 2. What I did was to get an iFi IEMatch, problem solved, it is a really great device.


Well it's worth a try for $50 i might just pick one up. What is the difference between high and ultra sensitivity modes? I still can't believe that the MJ2 + Gumby make such audible background noise with IEM's, i would really be curious to hear from others what their experience with IEM's has been like with noise.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I hear no noise with my k3003i out of the 1/4 inch, though they are nowhere near as transparent as kse1500.


----------



## Rowethren

Audiofiend1 said:


> Well it's worth a try for $50 i might just pick one up. What is the difference between high and ultra sensitivity modes? I still can't believe that the MJ2 + Gumby make such audible background noise with IEM's, i would really be curious to hear from others what their experience with IEM's has been like with noise.



The Shure SE846 are renowned for their incredible sensitivity to humming even from portable players so a high power desktop tube amp doesn't really stand a chance to be honest. Regarding the difference between settings all they do is lower the volume more, I always use ultra with my K10s as it gives you more headroom. Generally you want to avoid being right at the start of the volume as you get potential for channel imbalance.


----------



## Audiofiend1

Rowethren said:


> The Shure SE846 are renowned for their incredible sensitivity to humming even from portable players so a high power desktop tube amp doesn't really stand a chance to be honest. Regarding the difference between settings all they do is lower the volume more, I always use ultra with my K10s as it gives you more headroom. Generally you want to avoid being right at the start of the volume as you get potential for channel imbalance.


Makes sense now that i think about it more. Picked up an IEmatch today and it cleared the background noise right up, amazing little product to have, sounds fine now


----------



## Rowethren

Audiofiend1 said:


> Makes sense now that i think about it more. Picked up an IEmatch today and it cleared the background noise right up, amazing little product to have, sounds fine now



Glad it worked out well for you, happy listening


----------



## iamjaymo

I searched but couldn’t find much here on HF...anyone pair the Audeze LCD2 Classic with the MJ2?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Many people, and they like it a lot.


----------



## Audiofiend1

iamjaymo said:


> I searched but couldn’t find much here on HF...anyone pair the Audeze LCD2 Classic with the MJ2?


I pair my LCD 2 (pre fazor) with my MJ2 and it sounds great, i was just listening to it earlier today. Plenty of power, on low gain i rarely take it past 50% and on high gain rarely over 25%. Currently using a pair of Amperex 1959 white label d-getters in the amp and it sounds absolutely fantastic! The warmth is unreal, bass is powerful and upper frequencies are so smooth, no negative sibilant effects at all.


----------



## ToTo Man (May 15, 2018)

My bespoke made-in India Sheesham hifi rack is beautiful, but spirit-levelled shelves is a quality it is acutely lacking, and my Mjolnir 2 is rocking on it like a wonky chair.  I levelled previous items of gear with blu-tack under the stock feet, but I'm looking for a more elegant solution, and one that will also serve as effective isolation.  I'm thinking stick-on sorbothane hemispheres, two at the front and one at the back.  Is anyone else using sorbothane under their Schiit, and if so, is it effective?

EDIT - Has anyone weighed their Mjolnir 2 to obtain an exact weight?  The Schiit website states 13 lbs, and I was just wondering how precise this was?  13 lbs = 5.9kg, which means that I need feet specified for 2kg each (as I'm using 3 feet), however the ones I've found are specified for either [0.88kg to 1.79kg] or [2.1kg to 4.2kg], so are too light or too heavy...


----------



## peter1480

ToTo Man said:


> My bespoke made-in India Sheesham hifi rack is beautiful, but spirit-levelled shelves is a quality it is acutely lacking, and my Mjolnir 2 is rocking on it like a wonky chair.  I levelled previous items of gear with blu-tack under the stock feet, but I'm looking for a more elegant solution, and one that will also serve as effective isolation.  I'm thinking stick-on sorbothane hemispheres, two at the front and one at the back.  Is anyone else using sorbothane under their Schiit, and if so, is it effective?
> 
> EDIT - Has anyone weighed their Mjolnir 2 to obtain an exact weight?  The Schiit website states 13 lbs, and I was just wondering how precise this was?  13 lbs = 5.9kg, which means that I need feet specified for 2kg each (as I'm using 3 feet), however the ones I've found are specified for either [0.88kg to 1.79kg] or [2.1kg to 4.2kg], so are too light or too heavy...



Mine also rocked on its 4 feet worse when it was in prolonged use. It runs hot so I think the case warps! I sat the existing feet on Solid Spikes (ebay)  sorbothane 40mm hemispheres its sunk into the top of the dome and is rock solid. No noticable change in the sound but it is sitting on top of thick glass on ball bearings on a Naim Fraim.


----------



## FLTWS

Never had this issue with any of my Schiit.
 
even when left on all day none of my cases ever buckled.
When needed I like Herbie's Tender foot to add a little clearance.
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/compfeet.htm
I mistakenly ordered the tall size for under my LYR3 and JOT (should have ordered short like under my MJ2).
I use the tall under my SwitchWitch which comes for rack mount so no feet at all.
I use the short ones under my MJ2 for a little more clearance. Nothing under the rest of the gear.
I have no vibration issues, I think the stand with extra shelf  weights well over 100lbs and is rigid, 
all the equipment adds another 110lbs, so I can't say if they will solve those types of problems.
And I don't have speakers so no airborne vibration to transmit  through structure or air.
They do not mar the surfaces  underneath, but I haven't tried stacking with the Rag, Jot, Or LYR3 
as they get much warmer than the Yggy, and I don't need to.


----------



## peter1480

FLTWS said:


> Never had this issue with any of my Schiit.
> even when left on all day none of my cases ever buckled.
> When needed I like Herbie's Tender foot to add a little clearance.
> http://herbiesaudiolab.net/compfeet.htm
> ...



 nice rack but on casters? This is a Naim Fraim, serious isolation


----------



## FLTWS (May 16, 2018)

peter1480 said:


> nice rack but on casters? This is a Naim Fraim, serious isolation


Yes on casters, I have no vibration isolation issues to deal with because of where I placed it and my general ambient environment.
And the way I'm always playing around with different gear, cables, etc., from time to time those spikes would not be easy to allow movement of the stand.


----------



## ToTo Man

peter1480 said:


> Mine also rocked on its 4 feet worse when it was in prolonged use. It runs hot so I think the case warps! I sat the existing feet on Solid Spikes (ebay)  sorbothane 40mm hemispheres its sunk into the top of the dome and is rock solid. No noticable change in the sound but it is sitting on top of thick glass on ball bearings on a Naim Fraim.



I'm thinking of placing the Mjolnir 2 directly onto sorbothane hemispheres instead of using the stock feet, to give me the flexibility to position the hemispheres for optimal levelling.  Just wondering if the temperature of the metal chassis will melt the sorbothane?  Is sorbothane "melt-proof"?


----------



## peter1480

ToTo Man said:


> I'm thinking of placing the Mjolnir 2 directly onto sorbothane hemispheres instead of using the stock feet, to give me the flexibility to position the hemispheres for optimal levelling.  Just wondering if the temperature of the metal chassis will melt the sorbothane?  Is sorbothane "melt-proof"?



I'm not sure, I'd only ever used those on a turn table before....... not renound for getting hot. According the the interwang 'melting point of Sorbothane® is 150°F'


----------



## ToTo Man (May 16, 2018)

peter1480 said:


> I'm not sure, I'd only ever used those on a turn table before....... not renound for getting hot. According the the interwang 'melting point of Sorbothane® is 150°F'



150F = 65C, which seems low.  Does anyone know the maximum temperature Mjolnir 2's chassis reaches?


----------



## Rowethren

I use sorbothane spheres under my Mjolnir 2, they have been there for around a year with no issues.


----------



## ToTo Man (May 23, 2018)

I now have sorbothane hemispheres under all 4 feet of my Mjolnir 2 and it has levelled/stabilised the amp to very good effect and also anchors the unit in place much better.  I've also put 4 under my Yggdrasil to maintain aesthetic continuity.

Last night was the first time I've listened to my HD800S since putting the Yggy and Mjolnir 2 in my system.  I haven't listened to my HD800S for several months having been away, so it's possible my ears' tonal preferences have drifted during this time, however I'm finding the Yggy + M2 + HD800S combination rather thin, metallic and anaemic sounding.  There seems to be too much emphasis above 8kHz, and not enough body and presence in the mids around 2kHz (vocals seem distant), and the low end is weaker than I remember.  In fact I now prefer the tonal balance of the Focal Utopia, which I had previously ranked 2nd to the HD800S.  I've only been running the M2 for a few days (probably equates to a burn-in of less than 20hrs) so I'm wondering if the stock tubes need more burn-in time?  Does the tonal presentation delivered by the stock tubes change with a longer burn-in?


----------



## Phantaminum

ToTo Man said:


> I now have sorbothane hemispheres under all 4 feet of my Mjolnir 2 and it has levelled/stabilised the amp to very good effect and also anchors the unit in place much better.  I've also put 4 under my Yggdrasil to maintain aesthetic continuity.
> 
> Last night was the first time I've listened to my HD800S since putting the Yggy and Mjolnir 2 in my system.  I haven't listened to my HD800S for several months having been away, so it's possible my ears' tonal preferences have drifted during this time, however I'm finding the Yggy + M2 + HD800S combination rather thin, metallic and anaemic sounding.  There seems to be too much emphasis above 8kHz, and not enough body and presence in the mids around 2kHz (vocals seem distant), and the low end is weaker than I remember.  In fact I now prefer the tonal balance of the Focal Utopia, which I had previously ranked 2nd to the HD800S.  I've only been running the M2 for a few days (probably equates to a burn-in of less than 20hrs) so I'm wondering if the stock tubes need more burn-in time?  Does the tonal presentation delivered by the stock tubes change with a longer burn-in?



It’ll take about another 20-25 hours for those tubes to settle but in truth the stock tubes aren’t really that great. 

Grab a pair of warm, smooth tubes, that will take the edge off the HD800s. Amperex Orange Globes 6DJ8, Western Electric 396A (with the adapter), etc..

Hopefully different tubes will provide a better experience for you.


----------



## dieslemat

Curious to know if anyone here had tried connecting the Mjolnir 2 to a speaker amp. Ive seen some folks use the Mjolnir 2 with their active speakers.


----------



## roshambo (May 27, 2018)

I recently started running LISST tubes in my MJ2 with my HD800+SDR and have been tremendously impressed with the bass extension. It matches or beats any tube I've rolled. The highs are also well accounted for, which would be a problem, but the Loki 8khz knob does a great job of attenuating the LISST treble. While it's less effective at reducing the stock HD800 6 khz peak, it's exactly what LISST needs here. Additionally, for bass heavy music, the Loki 20 Hz knob brings things up nicely on the fully solid-state MJ2. No tubey euphonics with LISST, but the responsiveness to EQ allows me to create a highly desirable frequency response.

Planning to upgrade from Mimby to Gungnir DS or Gumby soon. The entire system continues to impress me.


----------



## ToTo Man (May 31, 2018)

Phantaminum said:


> It’ll take about another 20-25 hours for those tubes to settle but in truth the stock tubes aren’t really that great.
> 
> Grab a pair of warm, smooth tubes, that will take the edge off the HD800s. Amperex Orange Globes 6DJ8, Western Electric 396A (with the adapter), etc..
> 
> Hopefully different tubes will provide a better experience for you.



With 50hrs burn-in now on the stock tubes I decided to perform another comparison between Mj2 and Jot, using both my HD800S and also the ADX5000 which I currently have on home demo (I really like the 5000, it sounds like a cross between the HD800S and Utopia!).  Both headphones are being driven in balanced mode.

I wish it weren't so, but I prefer Jot's presentation.  It's very clean, very resolving, has a very low noise floor, delivers grippy bass with extension and slam, and projects vocals with remarkable presence/clarity.

Mj2 with stock tubes by comparison is less resolving, it presents a larger but less focused and more diffuse soundstage, has less resolve across the board, delivers a weaker/mushier low end, and it pulls vocals into the distance.

I was very much hoping to prefer Mj2 because it looks so much better in my system and I've always been drawn to the romantic glow of tubes, but sadly I don't, at least with the stock tubes.  Trouble is I don't think I'm cut out to embark on an epic tube rolling journey, as it will be very difficult with my cerebral palsy to swap tubes in and out, so I'm hoping can make the right choice first time. 

I'd be really grateful for advice on a tube recommendation that gets me as close as possible to matching Jot's transparency/resolve and tonal balance, if such a tube exists?


----------



## roshambo

ToTo Man said:


> With 50hrs burn-in now on the stock tubes I decided to perform another comparison between Mj2 and Jot, using both my HD800S and also the ADX5000 which I currently have on home demo (I really like the 5000, it sounds like a cross between the HD800S and Utopia!).  Both headphones are being driven in balanced mode.
> 
> I wish it weren't so, but I prefer Jot's presentation.  It's very clean, very resolving, has a very low noise floor, delivers grippy bass with extension and slam, and projects vocals with remarkable presence/clarity.
> 
> ...




MJ2's stock tubes are terrible.

If you like Jot try LISST in MJ2. With a bit of EQ, it's my personal favorite right now for similiar reasons you state, best bass. Also, if you want to make rolling tubes easier buy 4 socket savers and stack them. It puts the tubes level with the chassis and they're easy to remove.


----------



## Phantaminum

ToTo Man said:


> With 50hrs burn-in now on the stock tubes I decided to perform another comparison between Mj2 and Jot, using both my HD800S and also the ADX5000 which I currently have on home demo (I really like the 5000, it sounds like a cross between the HD800S and Utopia!).  Both headphones are being driven in balanced mode.
> 
> I wish it weren't so, but I prefer Jot's presentation.  It's very clean, very resolving, has a very low noise floor, delivers grippy bass with extension and slam, and projects vocals with remarkable presence/clarity.
> 
> ...



I'll say that I've personally never liked the stock tubes on the Mjolnir 2. They're made to be produced in mass for a low price so I understand you're feeling towards the sound. If you were in the U.S. I'd of sent you a few pairs of Russian tubes to try out. Let me look through my stash of tubes and find that one pair that was very fast, with an almost SS like sound, with a nice touch of tube euphony. I've had the Jotunheim before so I'm hoping my memory serves me right with comparing them.

Once I find the tube, I'll see if AuditoryCanvas has a pair to sell with the adapter so you can try them out. They're cheap and not expensive but will run you around $60-80 give or take with the adapters. The next tube that I can think of that sounds fast, is very detailed, and has a bit of tube euphony would be the Siemen's E188CC but they run around $250-300 now. If you're interested in those I can find of pair of them for much cheaper but with a USA mfg label. I'm sure it'll be cheaper than the full price for the ones with the Siemen's label but will most likely be shipped from the US. 

I'll shoot you a PM once I get back in town on Saturday evening.


----------



## ToTo Man

roshambo said:


> MJ2's stock tubes are terrible.
> 
> If you like Jot try LISST in MJ2. With a bit of EQ, it's my personal favorite right now for similiar reasons you state, best bass. Also, if you want to make rolling tubes easier buy 4 socket savers and stack them. It puts the tubes level with the chassis and they're easy to remove.



Interestingly I've read some comparisons of Jot vs Mj2 with LISST and the consensus seems to be a preference for Jot as it is more resolving.  Would you agree with this conclusion?

I was actually considering buying some tubemonger socket savers to make swapping tubes easier, but then I have the difficulty to remove the socket savers if I ever need to.


----------



## ToTo Man

Phantaminum said:


> I'll say that I've personally never liked the stock tubes on the Mjolnir 2. They're made to be produced in mass for a low price so I understand you're feeling towards the sound. If you were in the U.S. I'd of sent you a few pairs of Russian tubes to try out. Let me look through my stash of tubes and find that one pair that was very fast, with an almost SS like sound, with a nice touch of tube euphony. I've had the Jotunheim before so I'm hoping my memory serves me right with comparing them.
> 
> Once I find the tube, I'll see if AuditoryCanvas has a pair to sell with the adapter so you can try them out. They're cheap and not expensive but will run you around $60-80 give or take with the adapters. The next tube that I can think of that sounds fast, is very detailed, and has a bit of tube euphony would be the Siemen's E188CC but they run around $250-300 now. If you're interested in those I can find of pair of them for much cheaper but with a USA mfg label. I'm sure it'll be cheaper than the full price for the ones with the Siemen's label but will most likely be shipped from the US.
> 
> I'll shoot you a PM once I get back in town on Saturday evening.


Thanks for sharing your experiences.  I'm wondering, with the right tube, such as those you suggested above, is it possible to make Mj2 as resolving and transparent as Jot, or do I have unrealistic expectations?  I ask because I have read comparisons of Mj2 + LISST vs Jot and the general consensus is that Jot is more revealing.


----------



## JerryLeeds

ToTo Man said:


> Thanks for sharing your experiences.  I'm wondering, with the right tube, such as those you suggested above, is it possible to make Mj2 as resolving and transparent as Jot, or do I have unrealistic expectations?  I ask because I have read comparisons of Mj2 + LISST vs Jot and the general consensus is that Jot is more revealing.



Tube extractor


----------



## Phantaminum (Jun 1, 2018)

ToTo Man said:


> Thanks for sharing your experiences.  I'm wondering, with the right tube, such as those you suggested above, is it possible to make Mj2 as resolving and transparent as Jot, or do I have unrealistic expectations?  I ask because I have read comparisons of Mj2 + LISST vs Jot and the general consensus is that Jot is more revealing.



The Jot is a fast and resolving amp which does it with such a brute force. It’s bit of a monster in that regard.

There are a few drawbacks to that amp that may not be drawbacks to you. It’s has a highly mid forward sound and it delivers instruments somewhat flatly. Almost like a flat plane from left to right.

The Mjolnir 2 will envelope you with sound (but higher end amps do this better) and gives you the option to adjust the sound to your liking. If you want laid back there’s a tube for that, if you want revealing there’s a tube for that, more bass, you get flexibility.

The Mjolnir 2 will never be the Jot. I didn’t like the LISST either and the way it presents the mids. I’d of stuck with the Jot instead. These are my preference of course. I’ll get with tomorrow and hope a good tube will be the extra fairy dust needed.


----------



## NEXTLEVEL5

I have the Jot and have a Mjolnir2 on its way. I will try and compare both. I do need to buy tubes as I will not even bother using the stock ones.


----------



## roshambo

ToTo Man said:


> Interestingly I've read some comparisons of Jot vs Mj2 with LISST and the consensus seems to be a preference for Jot as it is more resolving.  Would you agree with this conclusion?
> 
> I was actually considering buying some tubemonger socket savers to make swapping tubes easier, but then I have the difficulty to remove the socket savers if I ever need to.



I haven't heard Jot. Additionally, as for MJ2 with LISST I use EQ (sonarworks) in all cases, so that LISST produces flat mids isn't a huge deal, I tune to my tastes. I never seriously entertained Jot since I want to play with tubes. It is starting to look like I'm a solid state guy though...


----------



## rutter

roshambo said:


> I recently started running LISST tubes in my MJ2 with my HD800+SDR and have been tremendously impressed with the bass extension. It matches or beats any tube I've rolled. The highs are also well accounted for, which would be a problem, but the Loki 8khz knob does a great job of attenuating the LISST treble. While it's less effective at reducing the stock HD800 6 khz peak, it's exactly what LISST needs here. Additionally, for bass heavy music, the Loki 20 Hz knob brings things up nicely on the fully solid-state MJ2. No tubey euphonics with LISST, but the responsiveness to EQ allows me to create a highly desirable frequency response.
> 
> Planning to upgrade from Mimby to Gungnir DS or Gumby soon. The entire system continues to impress me.



Do you manage to use balanced with a Loki in your chain?


----------



## roshambo

rutter said:


> Do you manage to use balanced with a Loki in your chain?



I did upgrade to Gumby and run everything balanced but Loki isn't part of the chain anymore. Gumby SE outputs are summed and they're as bad as the Mjolnir's summed 1/4 TRS output, totally not recommended vs the XLR's. I use Sonarworks to EQ now and while I miss turning Loki knobs I've never half considered going back to SE for it.


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## NEXTLEVEL5 (Jun 18, 2018)

So I had a little time to compare the Multibit jotunheim to the Mjolnir2 over the weekend. DAC for both was the Yggy2. As much as I loved the Jotunheim and it being a complete package with the Multibit card, the flexibility of the mj2, soundstage and the ability to impart sound quality preferences using different tubes is the way to go for me. I will be shortly selling the Jot.


----------



## eee1111

ill be listing my mjolnir 2 with 3 pairs of great tubes
siemens cca
telefunken e88cc
Mullard Cv4109

im also selling my lightly used gumby gen 5


I upgraded ...


----------



## NEXTLEVEL5

What did you upgrade to?


----------



## Audiofiend1

i'm glad to hear the Jot is resolving i'm probably going to get one since i need something more portable and my Gumby/MJ2 aren't. If i get the Jot with multi and wished to use it with my gumby at some point is it easy to select the gumby for the dac and not use the multi dac? i am guessing i just select it from my usb options?


----------



## NEXTLEVEL5

Yes, The Jot still has input connections so you can bypass the built in card if needed.


----------



## Todd Fredericks

I recent purchased the Mjolnir 2 and I’ve been very happy with it.  The stock tubes sound great, however, I’m interested in trying some other ones.  Any suggestions?


----------



## Todd Fredericks

JerryLeeds said:


> Tube extractor


This is great!!


----------



## Todd Fredericks

roshambo said:


> I did upgrade to Gumby and run everything balanced but Loki isn't part of the chain anymore. Gumby SE outputs are summed and they're as bad as the Mjolnir's summed 1/4 TRS output, totally not recommended vs the XLR's. I use Sonarworks to EQ now and while I miss turning Loki knobs I've never half considered going back to SE for it.


I thought I read that the Gumby’s SE outputs are okay.  I just got one and are you suggesting XLR is the way to go?  I have the Mjolnir 2 amp.


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## koover (Jun 29, 2018)

Have you got socket savers? If not, get these then you don’t have to worry about those pliers. That’s only if you plan on rolling tubes. The ones from the ad are discontinued so click on the link for the new ones. They’re a bit expensive but well worth it as these are the best ones out there. You’ll need 2. Better to replace socket savers versus sockets in the amp.

http://www.tubemonger.com/mobile/Product.aspx?id=1343

Then get these adapters (2 of them) so you can roll 6n3p, 5670/2c51 variants as they are the best and some are very inexpensive.

https://m.ebay.com/itm/1piece-Gold-...C88-6922-tube-converter-adapter-/192106370227

Then look up @AuditoryCanvas in the LYR2 tube rolling thread. In his signature, he’s selling 6n3p 1959-1964  Foton double Mica tubes for $25 a pair. Best inexpensive tubes to start you off with. They are good and better then most tubes that are triple the price and more. He’s a great and honest guy who tests for leaks and shorts and they’re matched as close as possible.


After that, I can assist you with other tubes if interested but in my most humble opinion without breaking the bank and to get an idea of what these variants sound like, it’s the best way to go.

If none of this interests you, there’s other directions to go.

Regards


----------



## roshambo

Todd Fredericks said:


> I thought I read that the Gumby’s SE outputs are okay.  I just got one and are you suggesting XLR is the way to go?  I have the Mjolnir 2 amp.



Without question. If you have Mjolnir 2 and Gumby use the XLR's.


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## Todd Fredericks

roshambo said:


> Without question. If you have Mjolnir 2 and Gumby use the XLR's.


Thanks!  I’ll order a pair and try them put.


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## roshambo (Jun 29, 2018)

Todd Fredericks said:


> Thanks!  I’ll order a pair and try them put.



Are you also using the 4-pin balanced XLR output on the Mjolnir 2 for your headphones?

When you get your XLR interconnect cables, to see what you've been missing, try connecting both the XLR and RCA's between Gumby and Mjolnir 2, throw some music on at decent volume, and then toggle between XLR and RCA inputs on the Mjolnir 2 using the switch on the front. On the XLR, you'll immediately see a jump in volume due to more power and clarity goes way up.


----------



## Todd Fredericks

roshambo said:


> Are you also using the 4-pin balanced XLR output on the Mjolnir 2 for your headphones?
> 
> When you get your XLR interconnect cables, try connecting both the XLR and RCA's between Gumby and Mjolnir 2, throw some music on at decent volume, and then toggle between XLR and RCA inputs on the Mjolnir 2 using the switch on the front. On the XLR, you'll immediately see a jump in volume due to more power and clarity goes way up.


Great idea.  Yes, I’m using a balanced connecton to my HD 800 S headphones.  Looking forward to trying this.


----------



## roshambo

Todd Fredericks said:


> Great idea.  Yes, I’m using a balanced connecton to my HD 800 S headphones.  Looking forward to trying this.



Cool. Yeah, I think you'll be pleased. Post back your results. When I finally upgraded to Gumby and went full balanced it knocked my socks off


----------



## NEXTLEVEL5

For tubes I recommend the following: Adapters needed: WE396A, Foton double mica(triple mica hard to come by) from AC, NOS JAN GE 5670, Also the Amperex ecc88/6dj8 sound good but don't need an adapter. I'm using these with the Utopia. I felt the stock tubes that come with the MJ2 were too bright for me.


----------



## ToTo Man (Jun 30, 2018)

roshambo said:


> Are you also using the 4-pin balanced XLR output on the Mjolnir 2 for your headphones?
> 
> When you get your XLR interconnect cables, to see what you've been missing, try connecting both the XLR and RCA's between Gumby and Mjolnir 2, throw some music on at decent volume, and then toggle between XLR and RCA inputs on the Mjolnir 2 using the switch on the front. On the XLR, you'll immediately see a jump in volume due to more power and clarity goes way up.





Todd Fredericks said:


> Great idea.  Yes, I’m using a balanced connecton to my HD 800 S headphones.  Looking forward to trying this.



To make the comparison fairer, remember to equalize the volume levels when comparing the SE and balanced inputs, as our brains are easily fooled into perceiving louder sound as 'clearer' sound even when it isn't.  In the case of Gumby and Mjolnir 2 however, you should hopefully be able to hear that the balanced inputs/outputs are audibly clearer than the SE ones regardless of volume.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

MJ2 is a pretty solid preamp for my Airmotiv 4S powered monitors.


----------



## dieslemat

bosiemoncrieff said:


> MJ2 is a pretty solid preamp for my Airmotiv 4S powered monitors.



Interesting.., have you tried to use it as a pre-amp to an amp?

Neverthought of this setup.


----------



## Mike-WI

bosiemoncrieff said:


> MJ2 is a pretty solid preamp for my Airmotiv 4S powered monitors.


Interesting. I just got one of my repaired Emotiva Airmotiv 4S power monitors back from Emotiva yesterday.

Mike


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I briefly used it as a preamp for my Panache, which led to K1000 and HE-6. The difference was not large, to my ears.


----------



## roshambo

koover said:


> Then look up @AuditoryCanvas in the LYR2 tube rolling thread. In his signature, he’s selling 6n3p 1959-1964  Foton double Mica tubes for $25 a pair. Best inexpensive tubes to start you off with. They are good and better then most tubes that are triple the price and more. He’s a great and honest guy who tests for leaks and shorts and they’re matched as close as possible.
> Regards



Can second that AuditoryCanvas is great to deal with.


----------



## michnix

Has anyone had the chance to compare the Mjolnir 2 with the Audio-GD Master 9?

I am looking for a tubed amp option and am wondering if the SS section of the Mjolnir is comparable to the Master 9 that I already have. If so, it would free both cash, space and the possible investition in a balanced switch as my DAC only has 1 set of balanced outputs...

Thanks for any input.

d.


----------



## ToTo Man (Jul 19, 2018)

Having been on a major Schiit spending spree over the last 6 months I am in the process of selling audio gear I no longer use.  A few days ago I sold my Valhalla 1.  Yesterday boxing it up to go to its new home, I put it back into my main system (with its stock tubes) just to check it was still working ok.  This is the first time I've listened to it since I upgraded my DAC from Bifrost 4490 to Yggy v2.

After about 30 minutes or so, I was regretting my decision to sell my Valhalla 1.  It gives my HD600 such a rich, full and enveloping sound and a level of engagement that neither my Mjolnir 2 (with its stock tubes) or Jotunheim provides.  When I listen to my HD600, I usually need to bump up the sub-bass and lift the very top octave slightly to make them sound "full range" to my ears, but the Valhalla 1 does this by itself with no EQ needed.  It also provides an engaging "wetness" to the sound that none of my other HP amps offer.  I presume this is due to the Valhalla 1's higher output impedance of 20 ohms, which helps high impedance headphones to "bloom" and sound fuller and more relaxed?

I'm not one to pull out of a deal so the Valhalla 1 shipped out this morning, but I do have sellers remorse!  I'm beginning to re-think my views on output impedance as I was of the opinion that "the lower the better", so that the amp exerts maximum control over whatever headphone it is partnered with, thus giving you a level playing field when making comparisons between different headphones (I review headphones as a hobby).  However this of course disregards the possibility that particular headphones were designed to perform best at particular output impedances.  I guess this is the reason why the guys at Schiit recommend OTL amps for Sennheiser HD 'phones?

You can see where this is going(!)... Should every high-impedance headphone enthusiast have at least one OTL amp in their system?  Should I head over to the Schiit site just now and add a Valhalla 2 to my cart to rectify the problem I've just created for myself?  Or will my sellers remorse soon be quashed by the vintage 1960s Siemens PCC88 and Tesla ECC88 tubes I am awaiting delivery for my Mjolnir 2?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Buy now, make rational purchasing decisions later!


----------



## Mike-WI

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Buy now, make rational purchasing decisions later!


That should be a Head-Fi subheading.

Mike


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

In all seriousness, though, MJ2 is a much more versatile amplifier that can meet effectively every use case you could ask for. HE-6, K1000, Abyss—it can drive them fine, they'll sound great. Would a power amp make you smile even more? Some would, some wouldn't. Be careful about noise floor, though: most power amps are really loud. The only amp that beats MJ2 on power-to-noise floor is, of course, Ragnarok.


----------



## dieslemat

This is true. 

However Ive yet to hear the Lyr 3 and how it stacks against the MJ2z


----------



## NEXTLEVEL5

ToTo Man,

I never compared the MJ2 to the Valhalla but IMO the stock tubes are throwaways. Upgrading to decent tubes will make a big difference in sound.


----------



## roshambo

ToTo Man said:


> Having been on a major Schiit spending spree over the last 6 months I am in the process of selling audio gear I no longer use.  A few days ago I sold my Valhalla 1.  Yesterday boxing it up to go to its new home, I put it back into my main system (with its stock tubes) just to check it was still working ok.  This is the first time I've listened to it since I upgraded my DAC from Bifrost 4490 to Yggy v2.
> 
> After about 30 minutes or so, I was regretting my decision to sell my Valhalla 1.  It gives my HD600 such a rich, full and enveloping sound and a level of engagement that neither my Mjolnir 2 (with its stock tubes) or Jotunheim provides.  When I listen to my HD600, I usually need to bump up the sub-bass and lift the very top octave slightly to make them sound "full range" to my ears, but the Valhalla 1 does this by itself with no EQ needed.  It also provides an engaging "wetness" to the sound that none of my other HP amps offer.  I presume this is due to the Valhalla 1's higher output impedance of 20 ohms, which helps high impedance headphones to "bloom" and sound fuller and more relaxed?
> 
> ...



I identify with a lot of this post. I have a lot of ambiguity toward MJ2, even versus my Vali 2, despite the fact that it does basically everything "better". MJ2 always technically impresses me but I don't get the involvement. I prefer Lyr 3 and Valhalla 2 sonically to MJ2, but damn it so much Schiit in the house already.


----------



## rutter

How good of a fit is this amp with HD800S? LISST or stock tubes. How is it different from the Jotunheim?


----------



## ToTo Man

Sorry for the dumb question, but what's the best way to insert socket savers into Mjolnir 2?  It is easier to insert the tube into the socket saver first and then insert the whole thing into the amp, or is it safer for push the socket saver into the amp first and then insert the tube into the saver?


----------



## koover (Jul 20, 2018)

ToTo Man said:


> Sorry for the dumb question, but what's the best way to insert socket savers into Mjolnir 2?  It is easier to insert the tube into the socket saver first and then insert the whole thing into the amp, or is it safer for push the socket saver into the amp first and then insert the tube into the saver?


For the “first time”, I’d insert the tube into the SS then insert into the amp. After that, never pull out the SS and then just insert the tubes into the SS once you start rolling.
When I first start rolling with new SS’s, I use a Q-tip to hold the SS down so it doesn’t wiggle or come out when I pull out the tube. After a while, the SS pin holes per say loosens up, it becomes easier to take out or place the next set of tubes into the SS.


----------



## FLTWS

I like the bit about the Q-tip.


----------



## dieslemat

A wooden popsicle stick is a better option imo


----------



## SteezyRayVaughan

Is the SE output on the Mjolnir 2 really as bad as some people say? I plan on upgrading to the Ether Flow Open soon, so going balanced will be nice, but I currently have the K712.


----------



## roshambo (Jul 21, 2018)

SteezyRayVaughan said:


> Is the SE output on the Mjolnir 2 really as bad as some people say? I plan on upgrading to the Ether Flow Open soon, so going balanced will be nice, but I currently have the K712.



If I recall, the MJ2 SE output sums you to 2 watts. You might as well be using Magni or Vali and save $700. The extreme power is a major selling point of the amp.

Edit: OK, guess I didn't answer the question. No, it's not "bad" in an absolute sense.


----------



## FLTWS

SteezyRayVaughan said:


> Is the SE output on the Mjolnir 2 really as bad as some people say?....



No.


----------



## fqdhlyc

I have mjolnir 1. Does Mjolnir2's balance output that much better than Mjolnir 1?


----------



## ToTo Man

koover said:


> For the “first time”, I’d insert the tube into the SS then insert into the amp. After that, never pull out the SS and then just insert the tubes into the SS once you start rolling.
> When I first start rolling with new SS’s, I use a Q-tip to hold the SS down so it doesn’t wiggle or come out when I pull out the tube. After a while, the SS pin holes per say loosens up, it becomes easier to take out or place the next set of tubes into the SS.


I notice that some of the pins on the socket savers I received are crooked.  I presume I should gently bend them so that they are all perfectly straight before I try to insert them into the amp?


----------



## tjl5709

yep. gently move them. the holes in the amp give you some level of margin. just gently push them in.


----------



## Brooklyn70

Does the *Mjolnir 2  have the tube feel??   I’m running Fostex t50 mk2,he-400i and I’m waiting on a pr of lcd XC*


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

*I don't know what 'tube feel' means. Some tubes sound great, and some tubes sound like ass. It will drive all of those headphones easily, however.*


----------



## dieslemat

Brooklyn70 said:


> Does the *Mjolnir 2  have the tube feel??   I’m running Fostex t50 mk2,he-400i and I’m waiting on a pr of lcd XC*



If you mean fluidity and warmth, I would say yes. By Yes I mean I compared them with Jot and Rag


----------



## roshambo (Jul 24, 2018)

dieslemat said:


> If you mean fluidity and warmth, I would say yes. By Yes I mean I compared them with Jot and Rag



MJ2 is a hybrid so it will always be tube-ish vs an OTL (which would be 100% tube). That being said, all your headphones are low impedance and an OTL would probably be a poor choice, especially with the LCD-XC. I imagine MJ2 would do very well driving your LCD-XC's though with the right tube. I've only listened to those Audeze's once but I recall feeling the treble was a bit much on the solid state Hugo 2. Appropriate tube rolling on the MJ2 could help tame that.


----------



## Brooklyn70

roshambo said:


> MJ2 is a hybrid so it will always be tube-ish vs an OTL. That being said, all your headphones are low impedance and an OTL would probably be a poor choice, especially with the LCD-XC. I imagine MJ2 would do very well driving your LCD-XC's though with the right tube. I've only listened to those Audeze's once but I recall feeling the treble was a bit much on the solid state Hugo 2. Appropriate tube rolling on the MJ2 could help tame that.


I’m using the jotunheim now and I like the tone it puts out    I’ve used the 4 pin XLR so I want to get a balanced tube amp


----------



## roshambo

Brooklyn70 said:


> I’m using the jotunheim now and I like the tone it puts out    I’ve used the 4 pin XLR so I want to get a balanced tube amp



MJ2 is a great option if that's what you're looking for.


----------



## Klots

It's been a pleasure reading all this MJ2 thread through over and over again and enjoying MJ2 superb sound, but I have to let my MJ2 go. So if anyone wants or knows someone who may want a mint condition 230V MJ2 with Ifi NOS 5670 tubes, then shoot me PM! Also available stacked with Gumby (gen2 usb). Thanks!


----------



## Audiofiend1

So i have a MJ2 and a Gumby stack. Sometimes i will hear clicking sounds or other sounds coming from the stack. I'm not sure if it's coming from the MJ2 or the Gumby but is this normal? Even when my MJ2 is turned off it still makes sounds sometimes, maybe it's the tubes? Maybe i'm missing something but i just want to be safe


----------



## roshambo (Jul 25, 2018)

Audiofiend1 said:


> So i have a MJ2 and a Gumby stack. Sometimes i will hear clicking sounds or other sounds coming from the stack. I'm not sure if it's coming from the MJ2 or the Gumby but is this normal? Even when my MJ2 is turned off it still makes sounds sometimes, maybe it's the tubes? Maybe i'm missing something but i just want to be safe



That sounds more like Gumby... Does your source change sample rates sometimes? Think I've heard Gumby click when that happens. MJ2 clicks twice when it turns on but I've never heard it do so otherwise. Gumby on the other hand clicks 5 times each time I startup the computer.


----------



## Audiofiend1

roshambo said:


> That sounds more like Gumby... Does your source change sample rates sometimes? Think I've heard Gumby click when that happens. MJ2 clicks twice when it turns on but I've never heard it do so otherwise. Gumby on the other hand clicks 5 times each time I startup the computer.


Sometimes the stack will be on but i won't be playing any music (although it will still be connected to my computer) and it will make a clicking sound very seldom. Maybe like once or twice every hour or so, just thought it was strange but maybe it's just the sample rate changing like you said.


----------



## roshambo (Jul 25, 2018)

Audiofiend1 said:


> Sometimes the stack will be on but i won't be playing any music (although it will still be connected to my computer) and it will make a clicking sound very seldom. Maybe like once or twice every hour or so, just thought it was strange but maybe it's just the sample rate changing like you said.



Gumby also seems to click whenever USB turns on or off. Happens when my computer hibernates or wakes up.

Edit: Windows also has a power saving feature called 'USB Selective Suspend' that sometimes turns USB on and off. You can disable it and see if that reduces clicking.


----------



## Klots

Audiofiend1 said:


> Sometimes the stack will be on but i won't be playing any music (although it will still be connected to my computer) and it will make a clicking sound very seldom. Maybe like once or twice every hour or so, just thought it was strange but maybe it's just the sample rate changing like you said.



It does that on my Gumby when im using optical. Google "spdifka" and open the first link, should be a github link. It keeps the spdif always active and stops clicking. It does not install anything, just run this exe and try it. The clicks are annoying, but this helped me.


----------



## Audiofiend1

What's the best way to connect a Mojo to a MJ2?


----------



## Rowethren

Audiofiend1 said:


> What's the best way to connect a Mojo to a MJ2?



The only way I can think of would be with a 3.5mm to RCA cable as the 3.5mm is the only analogue out.


----------



## Dnguyen926

Hi guys recently bought myself a Mjolnir 2 and got a bunch of tubes. Can you guys help me identify them and see if they need adapters? The seller mentioned that all these tubes are compatible but I just want to make sure. A quick search also gave me values of some of these tubes but I'm not so sure. 

Telefunken AEG, no date of model at the top of the box but I saw that they were $23? 

  

Cheap Amperex tubes?
  

??????
 

Two different pair of bugle boys
  

Master Series 10M these were expensive! Not sure if good though.
  

Reflector
  

??????
 

Mullards?
 

Siemens


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Aug 19, 2018)

Dnguyen926 said:


> Hi guys recently bought myself a Mjolnir 2 and got a bunch of tubes. Can you guys help me identify them and see if they need adapters? The seller mentioned that all these tubes are compatible but I just want to make sure. A quick search also gave me values of some of these tubes but I'm not so sure.
> 
> Telefunken AEG, no date of model at the top of the box but I saw that they were $23?
> 
> ...


All of them can all be used without adapters.

About the types:

ECC88 is the European name for 6dj8 tubes
E88CC is the European name for 6922 tubes - both are an upgraded version of the 6dj8/ECC88
CCa is a special quality version of the E88CC made for the German Government and Military
6n23p (6H23N on the tube print) is a Russian equivalent of the 6922/E88CC.

The CCa, and the AEG (Telefunken) E88CC are the most valuable, at $200 to $300 upwards a pair for NOS. Check if the AEG/Telefunken have a diamond emboss underneath between the pins - that tells you they're genuine Telefunken. There are some fakes around with a laser diamond cut into the glass. The real ones have the diamond embossed outwards, not cut in.

Some info on date codes for telefunken here: https://tctubes.com/telefunken-date-codes.aspx

That's a solid collection of tubes you have there. Shoot me a PM if you need more help identifying each one.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 19, 2018)

Seen a lot of AEG with dimple getter that are Mullards. Hard to tell but I think I see a dimple getter in the pic. More pics if possible.
Edit
Looking on my tablet, think I see an R code etch signifying Mullard Mitcham.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Seen a lot of AEG with dimple getter that are Mullards. Hard to tell but I think I see a dimple getter in the pic. More pics if possible.
> Edit
> Looking on my tablet, think I see an R code etch signifying Mullard Mitcham.


Yeah, definitely an R. Good call.


----------



## Den Sol

Hi All, greetings!

The Mjolnir 2 looks like an amp worth investing in to me.  My question is, should I just go ahead and get a new one or a used one in good condition would be fine?  Haven't used an amp before so I am really not sure what I am getting into here .

I saw used Mjolnir 2 on ebay sometimes, how much would be fair price for a say 3 years old one assuming good shape?

Thanks!


----------



## FLTWS

The value of the tubes that it comes with, other than the stock ones supplied by Schiit, could also figure in to the value.
I would also check for any sale listings of MJ2 here at Head-Fi as well.


----------



## Dnguyen926

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Yeah, definitely an R. Good call.





TK16 said:


> Seen a lot of AEG with dimple getter that are Mullards. Hard to tell but I think I see a dimple getter in the pic. More pics if possible.
> Edit
> Looking on my tablet, think I see an R code etch signifying Mullard Mitcham.



Good eye guys so they are indeed Mullards as I messaged the seller and he confirmed it.


----------



## Den Sol

FLTWS said:


> The value of the tubes that it comes with, other than the stock ones supplied by Schiit, could also figure in to the value.
> I would also check for any sale listings of MJ2 here at Head-Fi as well.


Thanks @FLTWS!  So the typical MJ2 owners should expect to spend a few hundreds bucks on the tubes?


----------



## FLTWS

Den Sol said:


> Thanks @FLTWS!  So the typical MJ2 owners should expect to spend a few hundreds bucks on the tubes?



Depends, if you are happy with the sound of the stock tubes, no. Or, you could read through this entire thread and the 6DJ8 dedicated thread and keep score of which tube brand / build / and date of  issue come up most as favorable and just buy one matched pair of a killer tube and accept that it will be the sound profile you want, or accept that your not missing anything else that could be possible sonically.. Or, you can join the rest of us tube-o-philes, rent a storage facility, and corner the market on all of them.


----------



## TK16

Den Sol said:


> Thanks @FLTWS!  So the typical MJ2 owners should expect to spend a few hundreds bucks on the tubes?


The avg spent on tubes has far far higher with the people in the lyr rolling thread. Enter at your own risk.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-1249


----------



## neoluddite

TK16 said:


> The avg spent on tubes has far far higher with the people in the lyr rolling thread. Enter at your own risk.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-1249




No truth better spoken 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-mjolnir2-tube-rolling-thread.839972/


----------



## Dan Lee

Hey guys Im new to the forum and have basically searched the entire bloody internet day and night in an effort to see what peoples thoughts on the Mjolnir 2 with Lisst is as compared to the Ragnarok.  Do the two come even close to one another in sound quality?  I live in palm coast fl which seems to be a dead zone for hifi meets or shops so I have no way to audition equipment.  I am also looking to upgrade to the Gungnir multibit.  Would anyone here say that a gungnir multibit and mjolnir 2 could be considered an endgame amp/dac set up at least for the forseeable future?  Any help is greatly appreciated.  Thanks  I currently own the Schiit Jotenheim with multibit dac and also a Questyle CMA400i which I am using to run Audeze LCD-Xs and MrSpeakers Ether C Flows.


----------



## FLTWS

LISST's for MJ2 are $100.00
RAGNAROK is $1,700.00
I have MJ2 with LISST's (and lots of tubes). The LISST's will give you a taste of SS sound but can be a touch grainy. For the money the LISST's are worth a try. They will not make it sound like a Rag.

Ragnarok is a different beast; question is do you need / want a speaker amp that delivers 100 watts per channel into 4 ohms? Do you need the Rag's additional in and out and gain features?
I got it because it was Schiit's statement HP amp in an all solid state design but it is decidedly SS sounding to my ears (but not grainy) with all the plus and minus of SS and sound best to my ears when well heated up. I've made use of the extra features, and it offers balanced in / out to HP's (like the MJ2), which I like and use. I've never used the speaker amps.

I've always had a mind set to have examples of tubed and SS amps on hand, I like the variety to listen with, but tube sound is my siren's call.

(Side note: The LYR3 is a very special sounding tube amp but SE in / out only. I lust for a balanced LYR3 with the Freya options of Passive, JFET BUFFER, or Tube gain choice.)        

Again, for $100.00, why not try'em.


----------



## Dan Lee

I appreciate the input I do not need 100 watts on tap at all so I guess that kinda takes care of that for me.  I believe that the gungnir multibit and mj2 are gonna be my endgame set up for a while and I will prolly get the Lisst pair as well jus to be able to utilize SS if I feel a need to.  Thanks for your response.


----------



## TK16

Dan Lee said:


> I appreciate the input I do not need 100 watts on tap at all so I guess that kinda takes care of that for me.  I believe that the gungnir multibit and mj2 are gonna be my endgame set up for a while and I will prolly get the Lisst pair as well jus to be able to utilize SS if I feel a need to.  Thanks for your response.


Have the MJ2/Gumby combo, you won't be disappointed one bit. @AuditoryCanvas has a pair of unused LIIST tubes for $70 if your interested. Think they are 100 from Schiit.


----------



## Dan Lee

Thanks tk16 I will keep those tubes in mind when I get my schiit in.


----------



## FLTWS (Aug 22, 2018)

Dan Lee said:


> I appreciate the input I do not need 100 watts on tap at all so I guess that kinda takes care of that for me.  I believe that the gungnir multibit and mj2 are gonna be my endgame set up for a while and I will prolly get the Lisst pair as well jus to be able to utilize SS if I feel a need to.  Thanks for your response.



Plus, you already have a Jot, add a Loki to it and have fun. And definitely, get the best multibit separate you can manage. I have not heard the Gungnir MB but most comments about it say it is within spitting distance of Yggy in sound and fits perfectly under the MJ2.


----------



## Dan Lee

That is what I have heard to and plan to get it as a result.  I actually had the loki for a little while but anytime it was in the on position it generated so much noise that I couldnt stand to use it.  After that little experiment I have decided that I would like to have as few items in the chain as possible staying fully balanced to avoid as much noise as possible with the hope of acheiveing that ever elusive perfect sound but may have to upgrade my LCD-X to Utopia before I achieve that little dream but from sounds of things the Gungnir multibit and Mjolnir 2 with tubes will get me a good part of the way there.


----------



## KaiserTK

I also have the MJ2/Gumby combo and I agree that it’s a pretty good budget end gear setup. 
However, I suggest you look up impressions on tube rolling for the MJ2 since the stock tubes just didn’t cut it for me. 
Also personally, I enjoyed the  Magni 3 and Jotunheim over the MJ2/LISST.


----------



## NEXTLEVEL5

Stock tubes for MJ2 are bad IMO, never tried LISST. The moment you put in a Amperex orange globe, foton triple mica, WE396a or even Jan-Ge tubes the MJ2 is better than the Jotunheim, just my opinion of course but I did have them side to side.


----------



## Dan Lee

KaiserTK said:


> I also have the MJ2/Gumby combo and I agree that it’s a pretty good budget end gear setup.
> However, I suggest you look up impressions on tube rolling for the MJ2 since the stock tubes just didn’t cut it for me.
> Also personally, I enjoyed the  Magni 3 and Jotunheim over the MJ2/LISST.


Yeah it seems like people either really like or really hate the lisst tubes.  I have also started making a list of tubes to start with cause I am pretty sure that from what others have said the stock tubes wont cut it for me either and sounds like the mj2 can be magical with the right tubes paired to the gungnir multibit.  If that is the case I just cant wait to try it.  I really enjoy the jotty with multibit dac but that small version of their multibit topology just makes me yearn for more.


----------



## Dan Lee

NEXTLEVEL5 said:


> Stock tubes for MJ2 are bad IMO, never tried LISST. The moment you put in a Amperex orange globe, foton triple mica, WE396a or even Jan-Ge tubes the MJ2 is better than the Jotunheim, just my opinion of course but I did have them side to side.


thanks for the tips on tubes I will be adding these to the lisst (haha see what I did there).


----------



## TK16

Dan Lee said:


> thanks for the tips on tubes I will be adding these to the lisst (haha see what I did there).


You need 2 5670 to ECC88 adapters for the Foton 6N3P and Western Electric 396A, buy them now they take a long time for delivery. I also recommend a pair of socket savers as well. Much easier to take out the tubes. And you can easily take out the adapter with them in.


----------



## Dan Lee

TK16 said:


> You need 2 5670 to ECC88 adapters for the Foton 6N3P and Western Electric 396A, buy them now they take a long time for delivery. I also recommend a pair of socket savers as well. Much easier to take out the tubes. And you can easily take out the adapter with them in.


This forum is like gold for the audiophile.  That is the type of stuff I have been wondering about the most with regard to tube rolling I will absolutely be doing this thank you for this info.


----------



## Brooklyn70

Dan Lee said:


> I appreciate the input I do not need 100 watts on tap at all so I guess that kinda takes care of that for me.  I believe that the gungnir multibit and mj2 are gonna be my endgame set up for a while and I will prolly get the Lisst pair as well jus to be able to utilize SS if I feel a need to.  Thanks for your response.


I’ve been looking to pick up the MJ2   Then I came across the Monoprice Liquid Platinum Headphone Amplifier    Does anyone know anything about it??


----------



## FLTWS

Dan Lee said:


> ...  I actually had the loki for a little while but anytime it was in the on position it generated so much noise that I couldnt stand to use it.  After that little experiment I have decided that I would like to have as few items in the chain as possible staying fully balanced to avoid as much noise as possible with the hope of acheiveing that ever elusive perfect sound but may have to upgrade my LCD-X to Utopia before I achieve that little dream but from sounds of things the Gungnir multibit and Mjolnir 2 with tubes will get me a good part of the way there.



That's surprising about the noise with Loki, mine is dead quiet with my Jot, but there's so much variation in audiophile rigs anything is possible. A balanced Loki would be fun, and 2 more bands would be nice with HP's. Make it dual channel and it could be very nice for those into 2 channel.


----------



## Dan Lee

FLTWS said:


> That's surprising about the noise with Loki, mine is dead quiet with my Jot, but there's so much variation in audiophile rigs anything is possible. A balanced Loki would be fun, and 2 more bands would be nice with HP's. Make it dual channel and it could be very nice for those into 2 channel.


I find it strange as well i was using it at the time with a modi multibit and magni3 beacause when I originally started looking I had emailed the people at Schiit and they told me the Loki would not work with the Jot and now I am finding that people use it with Jot all the time.  But either way I have since added a furhman power conditioner to my set up just incase the issue was somehow power related.  But I also would love to see a larger version of the Loki in balanced with a couple extra bands and maybe an iFi style 3D crossfeed effect just for fun.


----------



## Dnguyen926

As everyone says the Mj2\Gumby combo really shines when you use tubes. In my opinion I think the LISST tubes limits the Mj2. I recently got a bunch of tubes, a long with the LISST,  that came with the purchase of an Mj2 and I would like to recommend the Russian family of tubes, the 6N23P I think. They are so far my favorite pairing the the Elex and LCD X.


----------



## Rowethren

Can't go wrong with the iFi NOS 6922 if you can find them, they have adapters built in. Not sure how easy to find they are these days though as I think they stopped making them due to tube shortage. Certainly sound good with the setup in my signature.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Aug 23, 2018)

Dan Lee said:


> This forum is like gold for the audiophile.  That is the type of stuff I have been wondering about the most with regard to tube rolling I will absolutely be doing this thank you for this info.


Send me a PM with your sound signature preferences, and I'll suggest a few sets of tubes to start with.


Dan Lee said:


> Yeah it seems like people either really like or really hate the lisst tubes.  I have also started making a list of tubes to start with cause I am pretty sure that from what others have said the stock tubes wont cut it for me either and sounds like the mj2 can be magical with the right tubes paired to the gungnir multibit.  If that is the case I just cant wait to try it.  I really enjoy the jotty with multibit dac but that small version of their multibit topology just makes me yearn for more.


Throw the stock tubes in the trash. They really don't do the MJ2 justice.

Aside from 6dj8/6922, 5670/6n3p, you can also use 6n2p without adapters, and 12at7/12au7/7062 and a bunch of other 12a*7 variants with adapters. There are certain variants that won't run due to heater current requirements, but I have a chart of what will and won't if you need it. Other than sound benefits over the 6922/6dj8 types, they're generally cheaper than their 6922 equivalents at the moment.

there's a wealth of knowledge over on this thread - I suggest jumping in around page 1000, and working your way forward. Most of the contributors have either a Lyr 1, Lyr 2, MJ2, or Woo amps, all of which use the same tubes for the most part.

It's not a short read, there's a ton of posts, but by the end of it, you'll be enlightened, and have a very good idea of what tubes you might want to try.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-1000


----------



## Globox

Dan Lee said:


> That is what I have heard to and plan to get it as a result.  I actually had the loki for a little while but anytime it was in the on position it generated so much noise that I couldnt stand to use it.  After that little experiment I have decided that I would like to have as few items in the chain as possible staying fully balanced to avoid as much noise as possible with the hope of acheiveing that ever elusive perfect sound but may have to upgrade my LCD-X to Utopia before I achieve that little dream but from sounds of things the Gungnir multibit and Mjolnir 2 with tubes will get me a good part of the way there.


Same problem here with the MJ2 using SE output. No problem with XLR output. But it comes from my power and not from the MJ2. I have the same problem on the full size hifi but much less audible.


----------



## FLTWS

Rowethren said:


> Can't go wrong with the iFi NOS 6922 if you can find them, they have adapters built in. Not sure how easy to find they are these days though as I think they stopped making them due to tube shortage. Certainly sound good with the setup in my signature.



I got 2 pair from here  over the past year. They come nicely boxed:

https://www.musicdirect.com/equipme...SC&page=1&pagesize=24&c1=tab-products&c2=grid


----------



## Rowethren

Well if you can still find them I would get them while you can because iFi have stopped making them unfortunately. I was thinking on getting a spare set but I am thinking the Mjolnir 3 will use the same tubes as the Lyr 3 when it comes out (just a guess).


----------



## dieslemat

FLTWS said:


> I got 2 pair from here  over the past year. They come nicely boxed:
> 
> https://www.musicdirect.com/equipment/upgrades/tubes/?category=Tubes&sort=popularity|DESC&page=1&pagesize=24&c1=tab-products&c2=grid



Which set of tubes are your favorite?


----------



## FLTWS

In the MJ2? I like my Telefunken E88CC and Amperex Jan 7308 Green's. For the money, however, the IFi's are tough to beat. 
But tube sound is all in the ear of the listener, and associated equipment will have an effect as well.
Can't listen to a tube (or any component in the chain) in isolation; the source, cabling, and transducer all contribute to the end sound.
Probably one of the reasons opinions, likes and dislikes, vary from one listener to the next.
One of the difficulties of tube rolling is trying to whittle a decision down to just one tube (matched pair in this case) by sifting through others impressions.
Tube rollers are a "I wonder if..." group, so many of us end up with boxes of tubes, we're rarely completely certain or satisfied with our choices, LOL!
But that can also be part of the fun, the hunt for our own unobtainable perfection.


----------



## FLTWS

Rowethren said:


> Well if you can still find them I would get them while you can because iFi have stopped making them unfortunately. I was thinking on getting a spare set but I am thinking the Mjolnir 3 will use the same tubes as the Lyr 3 when it comes out (just a guess).



Was not aware of that, bummer. iFi uses them as stock tubes in some of their equipment, their Pro iCan comes to mind.


----------



## Rowethren

FLTWS said:


> Was not aware of that, bummer. iFi uses them as stock tubes in some of their equipment, their Pro iCan comes to mind.



That is the reason they gave in the statement I can't find. Basically there wasn't many available and the price had gone up loads so all their remaining stock is going into their products and to be kept for warranty issues.


----------



## FLTWS

Rowethren said:


> That is the reason they gave in the statement I can't find. Basically there wasn't many available and the price had gone up loads so all their remaining stock is going into their products and to be kept for warranty issues.



That makes sense.


----------



## Dan Lee

Brooklyn70 said:


> I’ve been looking to pick up the MJ2   Then I came across the Monoprice Liquid Platinum Headphone Amplifier    Does anyone know anything about it??


I havent really looked into a lot of Monoprice stuff even though I have heard great things about a couple pairs of their headphones.  I will look into that amp a little and see what people are saying about it and get back to you.


----------



## Dan Lee

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Send me a PM with your sound signature preferences, and I'll suggest a few sets of tubes to start with.
> 
> Throw the stock tubes in the trash. They really don't do the MJ2 justice.
> 
> ...


Thanks I really appreciate the help as soon as I get my mj2 in I will PM you and see if you can make a couple recomendations but right now Im not 100% sure what sound sig I want I feel like I would ultimately like a couple different sigs for different moods or genres of music something that provides incredible detail and clarity for one option and another that provides very euphonic sound and another that provides great bass extension or something along those lines.


----------



## Dan Lee

Globox said:


> Same problem here with the MJ2 using SE output. No problem with XLR output. But it comes from my power and not from the MJ2. I have the same problem on the full size hifi but much less audible.


yeah the noise issue is an absolute pain in the ass.  I added a furman power conditioner and that seems to have helped a bit and I imagine that when finally running fully balanced that will help even more and I also added a wireworld USB cable that seperates the data line from power line which seems to have helped a little as well.


----------



## Dan Lee

FLTWS said:


> In the MJ2? I like my Telefunken E88CC and Amperex Jan 7308 Green's. For the money, however, the IFi's are tough to beat.
> But tube sound is all in the ear of the listener, and associated equipment will have an effect as well.
> Can't listen to a tube (or any component in the chain) in isolation; the source, cabling, and transducer all contribute to the end sound.
> Probably one of the reasons opinions, likes and dislikes, vary from one listener to the next.
> ...


I breifly played with some tube rolling in the vali 2 and rather enjoyed it but there were some tubes I tried that just made the thing downright unlistenable and others that were much better, but really cant wait to play with tube rolling in an amp the quality of the MJ2.


----------



## koover

This hobby and our preferences are so subjective. There are so many members that are very smart and know their stuff, but believe me, AC is the guy you want to go to when you need advice on what kind of sound signature, how much you want to spend, etc. That's all AC does is tubes, tubes and tubes. He has a stockpile that will knock your socks off. Everything is tested to ensure they're good tubes and most importantly, they're legit! This comment is not taking away anything from anyone else in this thread or on the LYR tube rolling thread. They're all very smart people and I put a lot of stock into their opinion and use it all the time. I blame everyone )) for my stockpile of probably 75 sets of tubes with numerous singles. But please keep in mind all the variables that go along with tube rolling.
I run with the MJ2 with Gumby gen2 fully balanced. All my headphones are balanced too which no one has mentioned yet. This plays into the equation.
What genre of your music is your preference, are you balanced all the way around, what level do you listen at, do you have open or closed headphones, what signature do you like.....warm, lots of treble, lots of bass, etc...... it's endless.

When I started this hobby, I didn't know Schiit but just hanging in these threads and asking a ton of questions educated me more then I ever thought I could be. Now I can be somewhat dangerous when talking to this subject. You can get some REALLY great tubes on the cheap where you don't have to mortgage the house to find that perfect SS you've been looking for.

Use the resources that are available to you (PM people) and you'll save a lot of dollars....or in my case, take out 2 mortgages because it's just a lot of fun to tube roll.


----------



## Dan Lee

Haha I love that post koover.  I am definitely trying to avoid taking out another mortgage on my house for this hobby though it does seem to be going that way... or at least my wife thinks it does and pretty sure shes contemplating my murder any time I talk about or look at audio gear.  Right now I am running both sets of my headphones with custom periapt balanced cables, and part of the reason I am looking at the gumby MJ2 pair is so that I can run the whole system balanced and hopefully this gen 5 usb will be as good as they say and I can eliminate any possible noise anywhere in the system or at least as much as is possible to eliminate and just truly sit back and enjoy the music.  I have LCD-X open backs which I love but still am thinking someday I may move to the LCD-4 and or Focal Utopia just to have the ultimate experience without having to go the electro stat route which I am trying to avoid as much as possible right now as that seems like a whole nother rabbit hole all its own.  I also run the Ether C Flows for night listening or in the future for travel listening.  But the short time I have been in just this thread I have learned a hell of a lot.  Would you say that for you your Gumby and Mj2 are end game quality (not that there is an end game but at least a temporary one haha.)


----------



## Dan Lee

I got one other question for you guys while we are on this subject how do you all feel about buying used gear?  would it be wise for me to get gumby and Mj2 used or better to get new for warranty and all?  Also would you buy used headphones cause I was searching those forum sale threads and there are some crazy deals on some of the better known crazy expensive cans like lcd-4s and utopias?


----------



## koover

Even though you’re new to Headfi, it’s obvious to see you’re not new to the headphone world. 
Yeah, the MJ2 and Gumby are definitely endgame for me.
It’s a quality setup that some would consider “budget” high end.
With the HP’s I own (upper midfi/low high end) the gear and tubes I’ve acquired, I’m set. I’d rather spend some money on different variants of tubes to tweak the sound enough that I can approach that high end HP sound on the cheap. Spending a couple hundred on tubes versus another couple thousand more on a TOTL HP, gets me 90% there. That’s good enough for me when I have the gear and HP’s I have.


----------



## Phantaminum

koover said:


> Even though you’re new to Headfi, it’s obvious to see you’re not new to the headphone world.
> Yeah, the MJ2 and Gumby are definitely endgame for me.
> It’s a quality setup that some would consider “budget” high end.
> With the HP’s I own (upper midfi/low high end) the gear and tubes I’ve acquired, I’m set. I’d rather spend some money on different variants of tubes to tweak the sound enough that I can approach that high end HP sound on the cheap. Spending a couple hundred on tubes versus another couple thousand more on a TOTL HP, gets me 90% there. That’s good enough for me when I have the gear and HP’s I have.



I personally feel that you have too many headphones and feel bad for the Atticus that I'm sure is being ignored. Fortunately, me being the awesome guy that I am, I'm willing to take on the responsibility of using them regularly and keeping them well tuned. 

Yes I know bro. You're welcome. PM me the shipping info.


----------



## Dan Lee

koover said:


> Even though you’re new to Headfi, it’s obvious to see you’re not new to the headphone world.
> Yeah, the MJ2 and Gumby are definitely endgame for me.
> It’s a quality setup that some would consider “budget” high end.
> With the HP’s I own (upper midfi/low high end) the gear and tubes I’ve acquired, I’m set. I’d rather spend some money on different variants of tubes to tweak the sound enough that I can approach that high end HP sound on the cheap. Spending a couple hundred on tubes versus another couple thousand more on a TOTL HP, gets me 90% there. That’s good enough for me when I have the gear and HP’s I have.


Thanks man yeah I went a little fast and crazy with the headphone game but I like what I got its just one of those things where I keep wondering how much better it can get cause every change seems to get just a little better then a little better and I wanna hear it as best as I can hear it within my price range which I am definitely slightly beyond that point haha but i havent caught that stupid dragon yet haha.  Glad to hear your thoughts on gumby MJ2 pairing cause thats what I want it to be for me for the forseeable future.


----------



## dieslemat

I do have the Siemens A-Frame E88CC. I dont know what's better than this.


----------



## Brooklyn70

Dan Lee said:


> I havent really looked into a lot of Monoprice stuff even though I have heard great things about a couple pairs of their headphones.  I will look into that amp a little and see what people are saying about it and get back to you.


Thank you very much I appareciate it


----------



## Dan Lee

Brooklyn70 said:


> Thank you very much I appareciate it


So from what I can figure out this is a relatively new release so there are not a lot of reviews on it as of yet, but from what people are saying it sounds very promising as it is based on the Cavalli Liquid Crimson amplifier which people really like and Cavalli as a brand was great but has sadly recently closed the buisness though apparently he is now working at least in some part with monoprice on this amp as his name is attatched to it on Monoprices website.  The only area where you might have issue is that it is not gonna be near as powerful as the MJ2 so if you have or plan on having any hard to drive headphones down the road this may not be the may to go.  but that being said it is part of Monoprices Monolith series and they made a lot of waves with their headphones from that line with people loving them so I imagine this amp will be at the very least decent sounding but most of what I read leaves people to believe it will sound incredible.  Just still to new for me to find any reviews on it I mean this thing litterally came out like a month ago who knows if they are even shipping yet.


----------



## FLTWS

dieslemat said:


> I do have the Siemens A-Frame E88CC. I dont know what's better than this.



Got a pair of those, good tube, haven't listened in a while, but that's the problem when you accumulate more tubes than there are hours in a day.


----------



## Brooklyn70

Dan Lee said:


> So from what I can figure out this is a relatively new release so there are not a lot of reviews on it as of yet, but from what people are saying it sounds very promising as it is based on the Cavalli Liquid Crimson amplifier which people really like and Cavalli as a brand was great but has sadly recently closed the buisness though apparently he is now working at least in some part with monoprice on this amp as his name is attatched to it on Monoprices website.  The only area where you might have issue is that it is not gonna be near as powerful as the MJ2 so if you have or plan on having any hard to drive headphones down the road this may not be the may to go.  but that being said it is part of Monoprices Monolith series and they made a lot of waves with their headphones from that line with people loving them so I imagine this amp will be at the very least decent sounding but most of what I read leaves people to believe it will sound incredible.  Just still to new for me to find any reviews on it I mean this thing litterally came out like a month ago who knows if they are even shipping yet.


Thank you very much


----------



## Dan Lee

No problem my friend.


----------



## dieslemat

FLTWS said:


> Got a pair of those, good tube, haven't listened in a while, but that's the problem when you accumulate more tubes than there are hours in a day.



How do you find them against the Telefunken E88CC (which are double the price)?


----------



## TK16

koover said:


> This hobby and our preferences are so subjective. There are so many members that are very smart and know their stuff, but believe me, AC is the guy you want to go to when you need advice on what kind of sound signature, how much you want to spend, etc. That's all AC does is tubes, tubes and tubes. He has a stockpile that will knock your socks off. Everything is tested to ensure they're good tubes and most importantly, they're legit! This comment is not taking away anything from anyone else in this thread or on the LYR tube rolling thread. They're all very smart people and I put a lot of stock into their opinion and use it all the time. I blame everyone )) for my stockpile of probably 75 sets of tubes with numerous singles. But please keep in mind all the variables that go along with tube rolling.
> I run with the MJ2 with Gumby gen2 fully balanced. All my headphones are balanced too which no one has mentioned yet. This plays into the equation.
> What genre of your music is your preference, are you balanced all the way around, what level do you listen at, do you have open or closed headphones, what signature do you like.....warm, lots of treble, lots of bass, etc...... it's endless.
> 
> ...


That is an extremely high amount of pairs, I'm down to 44 pair, got 1 pair incoming. Grab a tube tester and make some cash back. Just use blank white boxes and write the values on the tube.


----------



## FLTWS

dieslemat said:


> How do you find them against the Telefunken E88CC (which are double the price)?



Not twice better sounding, but the Tele's are refined, airy, rich sounding, great detail, the Sieman's may be more neutral overall have a stronger bass and midrange presentation. But as I'm primarily a  classical listener I'm okay with the Tele's bass. I also note that when I bought these (over 2 years ago, they were significantly cheaper at around $170.00 a piece for Platinum grade at that time.  But I trust the dealer to do a fair job on testing and it's worth the piece of mind to me at those prices.

Plus, when I play tube roulette its like keeping 3 mistresses; I need to keep an inventory of 6DJ8's, 12AU7's, and 6SN7's, to satisfy all my tubed HP amp ladies. But I also want to note that the stock 12AU7's that come with my RH-5 are pretty darn good. 

I keep thinking of picking up a pair of the 7 volt version PCC88, they are $250 a matched pair at this point and I suspect they would make a nice pairing with the MJ2 as well.


----------



## Dnguyen926 (Aug 23, 2018)

Rowethren said:


> Well if you can still find them I would get them while you can because iFi have stopped making them unfortunately. I was thinking on getting a spare set but I am thinking the Mjolnir 3 will use the same tubes as the Lyr 3 when it comes out (just a guess).


Wait what?!?! There is a Mj3 coming out?! No no no no no no no... I just bought a Mj2 man... what the hell, urghhhh I hate this hobby with a passion ):



Dan Lee said:


> I got one other question for you guys while we are on this subject how do you all feel about buying used gear?  would it be wise for me to get gumby and Mj2 used or better to get new for warranty and all?  Also would you buy used headphones cause I was searching those forum sale threads and there are some crazy deals on some of the better known crazy expensive cans like lcd-4s and utopias?


With the headphone inventory you have in mind the " I wonder if..." will be so much more. I own only two headphones and already there are various tubes I like with each.
In my opinion used gear are fine maybe try to get a more recent date? Schiit dacs are advertised to be left on 24/7 so there shouldn't be a problem, even some of their amps have that claim.


----------



## FLTWS (Aug 23, 2018)

Dnguyen926 said:


> Wait what?!?! There is a Mj3 coming out?! No no no no no no no... I just bought a Mj2 man... what the hell, urghhhh I hate this hobby with a passion ):



Relax, it's all speculation. Schiit's short history indicates they don't stand still very long. Don't ask me why but I came away with the thought that they might be thinking on something that may combine some aspects of MJ2 and Ragnarok. "Ragnir"? Anyway, the Rag like Yggy are their statement products in those 2 arenas. I'm personally hoping for a Super Tubed LYR / Balanced for HP's. But I think Jason is focused on a new power amp presently.

Don't hold your breath! Nothing's been announced.


----------



## Dan Lee

Dnguyen926 said:


> Wait what?!?! There is a Mj3 coming out?! No no no no no no no... I just bought a Mj2 man... what the hell, urghhhh I hate this hobby with a passion ):
> 
> 
> With the headphone inventory you have in mind the " I wonder if..." will be so much more. I own only two headphones and already there are various tubes I like with each.
> In my opinion used gear are fine maybe try to get a more recent date? Schiit dacs are advertised to be left on 24/7 so there shouldn't be a problem, even some of their amps have that claim.


Thanks I appreciate the input just trying to figure out which way to go and how to get the best quality gear but if I can save a little and get stuff thats like new that would be awesome but yeah I would have to try pretty hard to get over the whole "what if" thing.


----------



## Dan Lee

FLTWS said:


> Relax, it's all speculation. Schiit's short history indicates they don't stand still very long. Don't ask me why but I came away with the thought that they might be thinking on something that may combine some aspects of MJ2 and Ragnarok. "Ragnir"? Anyway, the Rag like Yggy are their statement products in those 2 arenas. I'm personally hoping for a Super Tubed LYR / Balanced for HP's. But I think Jason is focused on a new power amp presently.
> 
> Don't hold your breath! Nothing's been announced.


Damn that would drive me nuts if I bought MJ2 and then a new version came out a month or two later.  But also glad Schiit keeps goin with this stuff too seems like they are constantly updating their gear and genuinely trying to provide the best gear possible at the most reasonable price points.  Plus I just plain love their business model of just doin their own thing and not givin a crap what the rest of the inustry thinks.  Just makes me wanna run nothing but their gear.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

It's difficult to see where MJ2 can be improved. I suppose it could have a more euphonic sound, but if you want euphony, you've already bought a WA22. or WA5.


----------



## Rowethren

FLTWS said:


> Relax, it's all speculation. Schiit's short history indicates they don't stand still very long. Don't ask me why but I came away with the thought that they might be thinking on something that may combine some aspects of MJ2 and Ragnarok. "Ragnir"? Anyway, the Rag like Yggy are their statement products in those 2 arenas. I'm personally hoping for a Super Tubed LYR / Balanced for HP's. But I think Jason is focused on a new power amp presently.
> 
> Don't hold your breath! Nothing's been announced.



The balance super Lyr is what I am guessing is next for the Mjolnir range with the new tubes, Jason hinted that he wanted to have more space to do balanced which leads right into that. Obviously I am only speculating but I think it is only a matter of time until something along those lines appears.


----------



## FLTWS

Rowethren said:


> The balance super Lyr is what I am guessing is next for the Mjolnir range with the new tubes, Jason hinted that he wanted to have more space to do balanced which leads right into that. Obviously I am only speculating but I think it is only a matter of time until something along those lines appears.



That sounds about right, especially if the LYR3 has turned out to be  strong selling product.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

What do we think? Built-in Phono/Multibit slot?

My question is what can they do over the current version, and I can't think of much. I mean sure, quieter is always better (I could never hear any noise to speak of, even on high gain, even from IEMs). If you want to have a different tube design that's better, great. And yes, fine, doubling the power to be more of a Rag junior would be cool, especially if it could be attached to more sensitive speakers. It could go from being solid to being fabulous at powering K1000, HE-6, Susvara, Abyss.

I don't think that would get me to buy its successor, though. I'm settling into my collection (headphones, not music lol—that's always growing), and while I toy every paycheck with getting Gumby or Yggy, I have to imagine that the difference between either one of them and my excellent bifrost would be far less than the memory of the 62.5 concerts I could get in the center terrace at the San Francisco Symphony for the cost of a Gumby.


----------



## FLTWS

I agree, MJ2 is fine as is. And, at that price point I don't think upgrading even makes sense.
However, take some of the tech and best perf aspects / features of MJ2, Ragnarok, Jotunheim, LYR-3, and Freya, and combine them around 6SN7's.
FRANKENSCHIIT!!!


----------



## Dan Lee

Someone on was talking earlier about the ifi nos tubes for the mjolnir 2 and how hard they were to get.  Just so you all know they are still available you can get them on amazon or a couple other places for about 100 a pair.  But unless I am just missing something here you could also save yourself about 75 dollars and just buy the ge jan 5670w tubes which are also available as a matched pair on amazon for 25-30 and get the adapter for them and have the same thing for way less money.  But I could be missing something here too maybe ifi does something else to the tubes that I am unaware of but how much that could possible affect the sound I dont know.  But either way I ordered some and will report back letting you guys know how it sounds.  But since I did not order the ifi ones if someone could give me their impressions of how those sounded so I have something to base it on I would appreciate it greatly.


----------



## FLTWS

I haven't listened to them (iFi's) recently as I've been wrapped up with my LYR-3 and the 6SN7's (which is a new tube type for me), but as I remember them they were more towards a neutral presentation rather than a  warm, euphonic sound. Also tended towards unforgiving of inferior recordings. 

As it's impossible to listen to any part of the signal chain in isolation a lot of what you'll hear will be influenced by the sonic signature of the other gear in your chain and what your preferences.


----------



## TK16

Dan Lee said:


> Someone on was talking earlier about the ifi nos tubes for the mjolnir 2 and how hard they were to get.  Just so you all know they are still available you can get them on amazon or a couple other places for about 100 a pair.  But unless I am just missing something here you could also save yourself about 75 dollars and just buy the ge jan 5670w tubes which are also available as a matched pair on amazon for 25-30 and get the adapter for them and have the same thing for way less money.  But I could be missing something here too maybe ifi does something else to the tubes that I am unaware of but how much that could possible affect the sound I dont know.  But either way I ordered some and will report back letting you guys know how it sounds.  But since I did not order the ifi ones if someone could give me their impressions of how those sounded so I have something to base it on I would appreciate it greatly.


That's what I did, didn't like the sound of them and sold them. Good thing about the adapters you buy is that you can use 6N3P, 5670, 2C51, 396A tubes with them.


----------



## Dan Lee

TK16 said:


> That's what I did, didn't like the sound of them and sold them. Good thing about the adapters you buy is that you can use 6N3P, 5670, 2C51, 396A tubes with them.


Awesome to know thanks man any preference on quality tubes of those varieties at a decent price point.  Im bout to order some amperex 6dj8 tubes ive heard some good things bout but the more options and sound sigs the better.


----------



## TK16

Dan Lee said:


> Awesome to know thanks man any preference on quality tubes of those varieties at a decent price point.  Im bout to order some amperex 6dj8 tubes ive heard some good things bout but the more options and sound sigs the better.


Tung Sol 2C51 is way better to my ears than that ECC88 pair. Cheap. 60's Foton 6N3P AC sells those. The 50's are better but very rare. Both inexpensive. Warmish tubes. Western Electric 396A is one of my all time favorites. Call them Mullards on steroids and HGH. Cost is higher than the first 2 options. The Foton with the Tung Sol is well under $100 total. The Reflektor 50's 3x mica 6N2P is great for the price, no adapter needed. 50's Tesla 6CC41 is another great tube. No adapter needed for that. More of a neutral tube (slightly warm) is the CBS 5670. Extreme amount of detail and separation. Can be had fairly cheap. Nice change up to the warm tubes.


----------



## koover

If you took a survey from most on the Lyr tube rolling thread, I believe it would be unanimous that TK is spot on with his recommendations. 
I have each of those tubes (except the CBS, but probably not for long now) and I agree wholeheartedly so buy with confidence.


----------



## Dan Lee

thanks guys looking into these right now trying not to blow a grand on tubes is kinda hard haha


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

I totally agree with all of @TK16s suggestions, although I'm not personally fond of the Tung-Sol, as they're a bit too mid forward/top end relaxed for me, but the rest are pretty solid. @Dan Lee considering your sound preferences I would say the WE396, Foton 6n3p, and the CBS would be your best options out of those suggestions.


----------



## SLC1966 (Aug 26, 2018)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I totally agree with all of @TK16s suggestions, although I'm not personally fond of the Tung-Sol, as they're a bit too mid forward/top end relaxed for me, but the rest are pretty solid. @Dan Lee considering your sound preferences I would say the WE396, Foton 6n3p, and the CBS would be your best options out of those suggestions.


@TK16  and @AuditoryCanvas are spot on. I spent 6 months obsessing on tubes and they nailed my findings in two posts.

I then moved on to an IEM obsession. Oh my wallet!


----------



## Dan Lee

that


SLC1966 said:


> @TK16  and @AuditoryCanvas are spot on. I spent 6 months obsessing on tubes and they nailed my findings in two posts.
> 
> I then moved on to an IEM obsession. Oh my wallet!


That awesome... aside from the wallet pains which i fully understand I think my wife is one step away from using my new MJ2 to beat me to death.  Those guys have helped me a lot so far.  What IEMs did you get into and gotta ask did you find any of them a worthy competitor for a good pair of OTE headphones?


----------



## Dan Lee

bosiemoncrieff said:


> It's difficult to see where MJ2 can be improved. I suppose it could have a more euphonic sound, but if you want euphony, you've already bought a WA22. or WA5.


I want euphony in the MJ2 is that possible? Or at least a little possible?


----------



## Dan Lee

TK16 said:


> Tung Sol 2C51 is way better to my ears than that ECC88 pair. Cheap. 60's Foton 6N3P AC sells those. The 50's are better but very rare. Both inexpensive. Warmish tubes. Western Electric 396A is one of my all time favorites. Call them Mullards on steroids and HGH. Cost is higher than the first 2 options. The Foton with the Tung Sol is well under $100 total. The Reflektor 50's 3x mica 6N2P is great for the price, no adapter needed. 50's Tesla 6CC41 is another great tube. No adapter needed for that. More of a neutral tube (slightly warm) is the CBS 5670. Extreme amount of detail and separation. Can be had fairly cheap. Nice change up to the warm tubes.


TK how would you say the WE 396a sound in the MJ2 as far as their overall signature cause I have heard nothing but good things about them an is their a cheaper 396a that comes close to it in sound quality?
Also that brings up another nube question that I am sure you guys have grown tired of answering, but when I am looking through all these tube stores there is like 30+ different 6dj8's 30+ different 6922's 30+ different all variations of tubes.  Do all 6dj8's and all 6922 and all 396a's or 2c51's have similiar signatures to one another or do they all very drastically?


----------



## SLC1966 (Aug 26, 2018)

Dan Lee said:


> that
> 
> That awesome... aside from the wallet pains which i fully understand I think my wife is one step away from using my new MJ2 to beat me to death.  Those guys have helped me a lot so far.  What IEMs did you get into and gotta ask did you find any of them a worthy competitor for a good pair of OTE headphones?


One thing of importance I did learn after spending to much money on tubes is that you really do not need to spend to much money : )  I did eventually gravitate to the 396A family.  More affordable for an outstanding sound.  Once I had a couple pairs of WE and and couple of Tung Sol I was content and still had two pairs to many for my lifetime to ever wear out.  And I have not even been using them in my amps : ) That does not mean the CBS, RCA, and GE, and Bendix I have are not very good because they are extremely good.  I have run RCA in my Lyr 2 and unmarked Tung Sol in my MJ2 for some time and have been very content.  I found myself buying and hoarding great tubes which got me worried about my sanity : ) 

There are amazing people in this community with amazing knowledge. I appreciate all the help they have me and all the help I got from reading everything on this thread and the Lyr/Vali tube rolling threads. 

IEM world?  I needed very portable portable HPs and IEMs fit that bill.  I sold all my portable HPs once I tasted TOTL IEMs.  Something like the Rhapsodio Solar or EarSonics S-EM9 get close to my LCD 3 (dark and creamy sound).  Ones like the Empire Ears Phantom or Rhapsodio Eden rival or top my LCD XCs (bright and detailed sound).  Soundstage on a TOTL open back headphone like LCD 3 cannot be rivaled by any IEM I have heard.  But the intimacy of a TOTL IEM is really special.


----------



## Dan Lee

very good answer my friend thank you and glad to hear that at some point I can get an IEM that will give me close to my LCD-x sound.


----------



## TK16

Dan Lee said:


> TK how would you say the WE 396a sound in the MJ2 as far as their overall signature cause I have heard nothing but good things about them an is their a cheaper 396a that comes close to it in sound quality?
> Also that brings up another nube question that I am sure you guys have grown tired of answering, but when I am looking through all these tube stores there is like 30+ different 6dj8's 30+ different 6922's 30+ different all variations of tubes.  Do all 6dj8's and all 6922 and all 396a's or 2c51's have similiar signatures to one another or do they all very drastically?


If you want a Western Electric 396A pair I can see you a pair cheap. 1 tube is stronger in testing than the other. Doesn't affect the SQ 1 bit in a MJ2. $50 plus .shipping. Got 2 pair of Tung Sol 2C51 for $50 total for 2 pair. The 2 pair are microphonic tapping the tube and amp. Something you would not do while listening anyway. The TS are 50's and the WE are 49/57. PM if interested.


----------



## Dan Lee

I appreciate the offer TK and may well take you up on it but Im still waiting to hear back from auditory canvas as I already made a commitment to get a few tubes from him but I may still get those from you if I decide to just add to my collection which is kinda crazy to say considering I havent even recieved my MJ2 yet and already am developing a collection of tubes haha.
In your opinion does the GE 5670w used for the iFi tubes sound in anyway similar to the Western Electric 396a?


----------



## TK16

Not similar at all. Nothing I heard sounds anything like Western Electric except for much more expensive Heerlen CCa pinched waist.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Dan Lee said:


> I appreciate the offer TK and may well take you up on it but Im still waiting to hear back from auditory canvas as I already made a commitment to get a few tubes from him but I may still get those from you if I decide to just add to my collection which is kinda crazy to say considering I havent even recieved my MJ2 yet and already am developing a collection of tubes haha.
> In your opinion does the GE 5670w used for the iFi tubes sound in anyway similar to the Western Electric 396a?


The WE are significantly better than the GE in my opinion. They have the euphony that I believe you're looking for. @TK16s offer is very generous, and probably the best price you'll find for them, so I highly recommend grabbing them. I can hold on to the others for you if you want to slow down on the spending.


----------



## Dan Lee

TK16 said:


> Not similar at all. Nothing I heard sounds anything like Western Electric except for much more expensive Heerlen CCa pinched waist.


So weird that two tubes can be built almost identically but sound so different but that is good as it gives us so many different options to explore.  Thanks again for your input I will PM you later about the WEs


----------



## Dan Lee

AuditoryCanvas said:


> The WE are significantly better than the GE in my opinion. They have the euphony that I believe you're looking for. @TK16s offer is very generous, and probably the best price you'll find for them, so I highly recommend grabbing them. I can hold on to the others for you if you want to slow down on the spending.


Thanks again auditory I have pmed you and am gonna grab a couple of the tubes you got and also will prolly get those WEs from TK.  You guys have been a huge help I really appreciate it.


----------



## KaiserTK

I just got a pair of WE396A as well. I'm using the HD800S with the Gumby and it really brings a satisfying bass, wider soundstage, and depth to the music unlike the stock/LISST tubes. 
It also added some sibilance which is the only negative trait I have found. 
Diana Krall's Wallflower album just became way too unbearable to listen to her voice.
Do you guys usually use the MJ2 on High Gain?
Low Gain just seems a bit too muddy in comparison (although it does take away the sibilance a bit).


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

KaiserTK said:


> I just got a pair of WE396A as well. I'm using the HD800S with the Gumby and it really brings a satisfying bass, wider soundstage, and depth to the music unlike the stock/LISST tubes.
> It also added some sibilance which is the only negative trait I have found.
> Diana Krall's Wallflower album just became way too unbearable to listen to her voice.
> Do you guys usually use the MJ2 on High Gain?
> Low Gain just seems a bit too muddy in comparison (although it does take away the sibilance a bit).


Sounds like they might just need some burn in time - up to 100 hours. A lot of NOS tubes will sound congested in the mids and highs and potentially sibilant until they burn in.


----------



## KaiserTK

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Sounds like they might just need some burn in time - up to 100 hours. A lot of NOS tubes will sound congested in the mids and highs and potentially sibilant until they burn in.


Thank you, I do hope some burn-in will help.
However, this pair I know has been lightly used at the least (since I'm not sure if there's any real NOS WE396A left).
Does it matter if it is a Top-Square Getter model?


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

KaiserTK said:


> Thank you, I do hope some burn-in will help.
> However, this pair I know has been lightly used at the least (since I'm not sure if there's any real NOS WE396A left).
> Does it matter if it is a Top-Square Getter model?


@TK16 can probably better answer the question about the getters on those, as he has/has had several different pairs of the WEs.


----------



## TK16

KaiserTK said:


> Thank you, I do hope some burn-in will help.
> However, this pair I know has been lightly used at the least (since I'm not sure if there's any real NOS WE396A left).
> Does it matter if it is a Top-Square Getter model?


Those are more desirable than the later O getter, should be a 3 to 4 digit date code on them. I got square getters starting 1947 going up to 1957. What are the codes? Square getters ran to roughly 70 ish.


----------



## KaiserTK

TK16 said:


> Those are more desirable than the later O getter, should be a 3 to 4 digit date code on them. I got square getters starting 1947 going up to 1957. What are the codes? Square getters ran to roughly 70 ish.


I see ‘66-‘ and ‘67-‘ so definitely later model square getter. I hope that doesn’t make it too much worse. But now I got an itch to try one of those earlier model/D-getters!


----------



## TK16

KaiserTK said:


> I see ‘66-‘ and ‘67-‘ so definitely later model square getter. I hope that doesn’t make it too much worse. But now I got an itch to try one of those earlier model/D-getters!


Only heard mostly 40's to very early 50's so I can't answer that. Except for the 57 tube, my latest one is 52. My best pair is a late 40's non JW. JW's are tubes for the military.


----------



## TK16

Guys looking for MJ2 tubes Ebay got 15% off everything. Today.
PREGAME15


----------



## SLC1966

KaiserTK said:


> I just got a pair of WE396A as well. I'm using the HD800S with the Gumby and it really brings a satisfying bass, wider soundstage, and depth to the music unlike the stock/LISST tubes.
> It also added some sibilance which is the only negative trait I have found.
> Diana Krall's Wallflower album just became way too unbearable to listen to her voice.
> Do you guys usually use the MJ2 on High Gain?
> Low Gain just seems a bit too muddy in comparison (although it does take away the sibilance a bit).


I also wonder if people prefer low or high gain?  I use LCD 3 balanced.  Both low and high sound great. More volume play on low gain.


----------



## Dan Lee

TK16 said:


> Guys looking for MJ2 tubes Ebay got 15% off everything. Today.
> PREGAME15


Man buyin tubes on ebay makes me a lil nervous as I just dont know enough not to get ripped off or end up with a buncha tubes that say they are one thing but are actually another.


----------



## Dan Lee

just out of curiosity how do you guys feel about jj tubes and electro harmonix tubes?  any good or garbage?


----------



## koover (Aug 28, 2018)

Dan Lee said:


> Man buyin tubes on ebay makes me a lil nervous as I just dont know enough not to get ripped off or end up with a buncha tubes that say they are one thing but are actually another.


That’s why it’s better to buy from members here on Headfi. The guys you talk to all the time here are honest and reasonable. Same in the classifieds. Also, a lot of the guys on here have dealt with MANY sellers on eBay so just ask. I have too but not like these guys. Stay away from the seller bangybang though.
As for your other post, I dont care for the electro harmonix. They’re a new production tube that’s modern. To me they sound thin, sibilant, congested and lacking in the bass. Maybe I didn’t give them enough time to burn in but some of the worst tubes I’ve personally heard right out of the box. I’ve never used them again since that 1st time. Lol.
The one descent new production tube IMO is the Genelex Gold lion. Pretty good overall but there’s much better for what they're asking for them.

Edit: There’s a guy here in Arizona who’s an authorized seller. Arizona Tube supply. His name is Dave. Great guy and seller. You can even call him up and tell him what you’re loooikg for and he’ll see what he has, even if they’re not advertised in his storefront. He’ll either call you back or email you. Personalized service.


----------



## Brooklyn70

koover said:


> That’s why it’s better to buy from members here on Headfi. The guys you talk to all the time here are honest and reasonable. Same in the classifieds. Also, a lot of the guys on here have dealt with MANY sellers on eBay so just ask. I have too but not like these guys. Stay away from the seller bangybang though.
> As for your other post, I dont care for the electro harmonix. They’re a new production tube that’s modern. To me they sound thin, sibilant, congested and lacking in the bass. Maybe I didn’t give them enough time to burn in but some of the worst tubes I’ve personally heard right out of the box. I’ve never used them again since that 1st time. Lol.


Give tubedepot a look
https://www.tubedepot.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIu53k46GQ3QIVW4ezCh2YtAjfEAAYASAAEgJ3cPD_BwE


----------



## Dan Lee

koover said:


> That’s why it’s better to buy from members here on Headfi. The guys you talk to all the time here are honest and reasonable. Same in the classifieds. Also, a lot of the guys on here have dealt with MANY sellers on eBay so just ask. I have too but not like these guys. Stay away from the seller bangybang though.
> As for your other post, I dont care for the electro harmonix. They’re a new production tube that’s modern. To me they sound thin, sibilant, congested and lacking in the bass. Maybe I didn’t give them enough time to burn in but some of the worst tubes I’ve personally heard right out of the box. I’ve never used them again since that 1st time. Lol.
> The one descent new production tube IMO is the Genelex Gold lion. Pretty good overall but there’s much better for what they're asking for them.
> 
> Edit: There’s a guy here in Arizona who’s an authorized seller. Arizona Tube supply. His name is Dave. Great guy and seller. You can even call him up and tell him what you’re loooikg for and he’ll see what he has, even if they’re not advertised in his storefront. He’ll either call you back or email you. Personalized service.


Thanks man thats a huge help I only got the electros cause they were so cheap but easily sent back too.  And I definitely do trust the guys on this forum and am actually getting a couple pairs of tubes from Auditory canvas and TK16.  Those guys have been a huge help to me so far.  But the more I read here the further down the rabit hole I go haha.  Thanks for your input friend.


----------



## Dan Lee

Brooklyn70 said:


> Give tubedepot a look
> https://www.tubedepot.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIu53k46GQ3QIVW4ezCh2YtAjfEAAYASAAEgJ3cPD_BwE


Thanks man I have been to tube depots site along with a couple others.  I am currently waiting to hear back from Brent Jesse as he seems to be highly regarded as one of the best tube gurus around.  I also like upscale audios website just seems like their prices are a little higher then others but also prolly payin a lil extra for confidence in your purchase.


----------



## Brooklyn70

Dan Lee said:


> Thanks man I have been to tube depots site along with a couple others.  I am currently waiting to hear back from Brent Jesse as he seems to be highly regarded as one of the best tube gurus around.  I also like upscale audios website just seems like their prices are a little higher then others but also prolly payin a lil extra for confidence in your purchase.


There both good spots to deal with.   I’ve been to upscale audios store a buddy of mine lives close to it.   It’s a wicked place


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## Dan Lee

Brooklyn70 said:


> There both good spots to deal with.   I’ve been to upscale audios store a buddy of mine lives close to it.   It’s a wicked place


Really that would be awesome to go to one of those places in person.  I live in Fl its like HiFi doesnt exist here.  No stores anyway I have been toying with the idea of opening one somewhere but no idea how market would respond to it as every person I have told to date that I spent $1200 on a pair of headphones thinks Im outta my mind and thats before I tell them bout the $1800 pair and the AMPs and DACs and cables and power conditioners haha.  And now tubes on top of that.  I dont know it sure would be awesome to run a HiFi audio store but Id prolly have to move to Orlando to get a bigger audience.


----------



## FLTWS

Dan Lee said:


> Thanks man I have been to tube depots site along with a couple others.  I am currently waiting to hear back from Brent Jesse as he seems to be highly regarded as one of the best tube gurus around.  I also like upscale audios website just seems like their prices are a little higher then others but also prolly payin a lil extra for confidence in your purchase.



I agree on all accounts.


----------



## Mike-WI

Dan Lee said:


> Really that would be awesome to go to one of those places in person.  I live in Fl its like HiFi doesnt exist here.  No stores anyway I have been toying with the idea of opening one somewhere but no idea how market would respond to it as every person I have told to date that I spent $1200 on a pair of headphones thinks Im outta my mind and thats before I tell them bout the $1800 pair and the AMPs and DACs and cables and power conditioners haha.  And now tubes on top of that.  I dont know it sure would be awesome to run a HiFi audio store but Id prolly have to move to Orlando to get a bigger audience.


Not that I know anything about opening a boutique audio store, but you could potentially open something (even a home compartmentalized area) with appointment only and focus on people that aren't listening and then buying on internet.
Agree though that startup and the margins needed to make it worth it would seem tough.


----------



## Dan Lee

Mike-WI said:


> Not that I know anything about opening a boutique audio store, but you could potentially open something (even a home compartmentalized area) with appointment only and focus on people that aren't listening and then buying on internet.
> Agree though that startup and the margins needed to make it worth it would seem tough.


Yeah man I definitely have not looked far enough into it but just something I consider working toward in the future even if its just like you said an appointment only type thing that I can do on the side just because it is something I truly enjoy.


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## Dan Lee

Hey odd question but have any of you Mjolnir 2 owners looked into or know someone who has looked into or managed to upgrade there volume potentiometer to a motorized one that could be used with a remote rather then having to drop another $850 on a Freya.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Dan Lee said:


> Hey odd question but have any of you Mjolnir 2 owners looked into or know someone who has looked into or managed to upgrade there volume potentiometer to a motorized one that could be used with a remote rather then having to drop another $850 on a Freya.


It has a custom 4-gang RK27 ALPS volume pot, so not something you’d really want to replace. Just get an Apple remote or control your Mac from your phone and save yourself the hassle


----------



## Dan Lee

fair enough figured id ask


----------



## zachgraz

I have been enjoying  my brand new Schiit Mjolnir 2 for a few weeks now. One thing I worried about before was the heat. I put the tubes on top of 2 socket savers each so they are placed totally outside the case. My MJ2 does not get hot at all, just warm after a few hours playing. So the worries were not justified.
The Lyr 2 of a friend I had tested before got so hot I almost could not touch the case just about 20 mins after it had been turned on.
I have selected the best sounding tubes for me and so far I can say I am quite happy with my MJ2. So many more details in sound compared to my Vali 2.


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## bosiemoncrieff

Just got MJ2 back from warranty service (a fuse had gone out), and it's working good as ever. Listened to Giulio Cesare last night (Sills as Cleopatra) and it sounded great, though her voice is a little to large for the eighteenth century opera.


----------



## FLTWS

Any idea what could have caused the fuse to blow?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Not clear about the wiring in my apartment or how electrical engineering works, but it is theoretically possible that it, my microwave, and my refrigerator are all on the same circuit.


----------



## rmoody

Obviously I don't know what happened to bosiemoncrieff, but when mine blew, it was because I have mine connected to a set of Yamaha HS8 powered monitors. I had the volume at about normal listening level and turned the MJ2 on. When the muting relays closed it caused a loud pop through the monitors and the MJ2 shut down. If an IEC power inlet with an integrated fuse were used, I could have just changed the fuse and been done. Since it was only a few months old, I didn't want to risk voiding my warranty so I shipped it in. Wound up being a $70 fuse. If it happens again, I will replace it myself.


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## bosiemoncrieff

Well i do have airmotiv 4S, but try to turn the volume down at the end of each listening session to be safe.


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## dieslemat

rmoody said:


> Obviously I don't know what happened to bosiemoncrieff, but when mine blew, it was because I have mine connected to a set of Yamaha HS8 powered monitors. I had the volume at about normal listening level and turned the MJ2 on. When the muting relays closed it caused a loud pop through the monitors and the MJ2 shut down. If an IEC power inlet with an integrated fuse were used, I could have just changed the fuse and been done. Since it was only a few months old, I didn't want to risk voiding my warranty so I shipped it in. Wound up being a $70 fuse. If it happens again, I will replace it myself.




Interesting. So now you turn on your MJ2 first and then the HS8s to avoid that from happening again?


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## FLTWS (Sep 9, 2018)

It's always been my practice (as learned from others decades ago), to turn on each item in the chain starting with the source and moving towards the transducer after allowing each box to stabilize, un-mute, etc., and turn off equipment in the opposite direction after turning all volume levels to "0". Pushing one button and turning on all equipment at the same time sounds convenient, or lazy, depending on ones point of view. I've no experience with powered monitors but sounds like an eventual problem just waiting to happen.

Shortcuts may lead to short circuits.

Do you use a spike and surge protector that you plug your gear into?


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## rmoody

I added a Emotiva balanced volume control between the MJ2 and the HS8s that basically acts as a mute and also turn the MJ2 volume down when I turn it off now. I would turn the HS8s off and do as others said, Gumby, MJ2, HS8s but 1) I'm lazy and 2) the power switches are (you guessed it) in the back of the HS8s and extremely difficult to reach.


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## bosiemoncrieff

I have a 5’ power strip for the audio but I’m not sure if it’s a surge protector. My actual surge protector is fully 12’ and because living in an SF apartment is always a game of outlet Tetris, serves my computer. (The NOT GROUNDED light is illuminated. Not sure what that means. Thankfully the protected light is also on.)

Should I bite the bullet and buy a short genuine certified surge protector for the audio side of things?


----------



## dieslemat

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I have a 5’ power strip for the audio but I’m not sure if it’s a surge protector. My actual surge protector is fully 12’ and because living in an SF apartment is always a game of outlet Tetris, serves my computer. (The NOT GROUNDED light is illuminated. Not sure what that means. Thankfully the protected light is also on.)
> 
> Should I bite the bullet and buy a short genuine certified surge protector for the audio side of things?




Should be a good investment. For me I have a surge protector. The cables have fuses. Also for (somewhat) clean, less noise power, I use the PS Audio Dectet as a powerstrip/conditioner


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## AuditoryCanvas (Sep 10, 2018)

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I have a 5’ power strip for the audio but I’m not sure if it’s a surge protector. My actual surge protector is fully 12’ and because living in an SF apartment is always a game of outlet Tetris, serves my computer. (The NOT GROUNDED light is illuminated. Not sure what that means. Thankfully the protected light is also on.)
> 
> Should I bite the bullet and buy a short genuine certified surge protector for the audio side of things?


Considering the value of the stuff you have connected, it would be a good investment.

I have one of these for the mj2 and yggi, it has delays so you can set the delay for powering on sequences, and an always on section (for the yggi, as it never gets turned off). They don't make them anymore, but you can find decent ones on ebay. it's well built using decent components. Furman and Panamax are also decent. Stay away from anything by Pyle - really cheap made with cheap components.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Belkin-Pur...104765?hash=item3b19c051fd:g:A68AAOSwbpVbhDsG

Edit, really good priced one here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Belkin-AP4...m=183418551678&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

I have that powered with one of these regulating the voltage. I originally got this to keep the voltage at 110v for my tube testers, but also use it to power the Belkin for an extra layer. Stops things getting over voltage.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00009RA60/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

In case you want to beef up the power chords, I have a few of these for the mj2 and yggi, which I highly recommend if you don't want to go crazy on price. They're great quality for the price.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074GMZX1V/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## FLTWS (Sep 10, 2018)

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I have a 5’ power strip for the audio but I’m not sure if it’s a surge protector. My actual surge protector is fully 12’ and because living in an SF apartment is always a game of outlet Tetris, serves my computer. (The NOT GROUNDED light is illuminated. Not sure what that means. Thankfully the protected light is also on.)
> 
> Should I bite the bullet and buy a short genuine certified surge protector for the audio side of things?



I'm no EE but the lack of ground may or may not be an issue. I don't think today's codes, at least where I live, allow for that so I'm guessing your building is vintage. I haven't lived in a building with un-grounded outlets since I was in my 20's. I'd suggest at a minimum an outlet that is surge and spike protected. Noise filtering is a nice thing to have too but not critical, unless you are experiencing line related noise, but why not have it. If your powered speakers are on a separate outlet they should get some TLC on their strip as well. Some isolation of the sockets in the strip/devise might be of benefit as well if everything plugs into the one strip to provide some level of isolation between your digital/computer stuff, your MJ2, and your powered speakers.

Over the years a good protection scheme has saved my wallet on numerous occasions, especially during ice storm season that pretty much runs from December to March. And when, for reasons I can not get a straight answer out of my power company for, those several days a year I experience rapid on/off cycles for several minutes which scare me more than just a one and done outage.

You might want to ask over on the "Cables, Power, Tweaks...." thread. This power accessory stuff can empty your wallet quickly so I would also suggest that there are several posters on Mike's thread that know their stuff on electric service too and may be able to give you some cost effective solutions to help prevent the electric service from ruining you day. There's no reason to go overboard.

I like going a little overboard, but that's just me,


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I swapped an ordinary power strip in one part of the apt with an actual surge protector in another part, so all computer electronics are safely protected. Yes, it's a vintage apartment, I would guess from the 20s. I can clearly see where the murphy bed would have once been kept (though I am happily do not use one).


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## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I swapped an ordinary power strip in one part of the apt with an actual surge protector in another part, so all computer electronics are safely protected. Yes, it's a vintage apartment, I would guess from the 20s. I can clearly see where the murphy bed would have once been kept (though I am happily do not use one).



Had one of those Murphy's collapse on me once while I was sitting on the edge of the bed, that started my back problems. That whole @!~%&) bed scheme was designed by Murphy's Law.


----------



## betula

Time to time I am wondering about getting a Mjolnir2, so I thought I ask for opinions in this thread. I use a Chord 2Qute with my Questyle 600i at the moment and planar headphones (LCD2). I know the Mjolnir2 is recommended for planars, but I also heard the single ended input is the amp's weak point (for whatever reason).
I quite like my Chord/Questyle combo, it is extremely clean, clear, punchy, detailed. There is a good 3D space where the music is happening. I like the ease of use of a ss amp. Switch on whenever I want to listen to music, it never runs hot. 
What makes Mjolnir2 potentially appealing to me is the extra 'tubiness' (keeping balanced mode). Even more power, possibly a slightly warmer sound without loosing on details, and possibly a stronger bass experience. My combo provides extremely clean, detailed and punchy bass, but I think Mjolnir2 might give a thicker bass texture which I could enjoy. I also like the mids on my combo, but I'd expect the Mjolnir2 to offer slightly more lifelike vocals. I am also happy with the treble presentation of my combo. It is clean, clear, detailed. Just under the level of not being sharp to my ears. From the Mjolnir 2 vs the CMA600i (+2Qute) I would expect a little smoother treble but not loosing much on details. 
Since I am happy with my present combo, this is purely curiosity towards the Mjolnir2. Just wondering if I'd enjoy it a little more.
Since I am not using the DAC section of the 600i, it makes sense to 'spend' that money on amp only. That's where the Mjolnir2 comes to the picture, as I think I might like what it brings. 
On the other hand I like the simplicity of the ss 600i and its smooth and balanced sound. Any thouhgts? Comparisons? Advices?


----------



## Dan Lee

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I swapped an ordinary power strip in one part of the apt with an actual surge protector in another part, so all computer electronics are safely protected. Yes, it's a vintage apartment, I would guess from the 20s. I can clearly see where the murphy bed would have once been kept (though I am happily do not use one).


I would say that if you can afford it you should consider going with a furman power conditioner which doubles as a surge protector and keeps power levels clean and steady.  I spent $350 on mine and I think it is one of the better purchases I made for my audio set up.  I recently stayed at an old as hell hotel in the keys and my god the power in that place was so scary bad I wished I had lugged that huge ass conditioner down there with me cause there was a very distinct difference in the way my Jot functioned their without it.  Definitely worth the investment and you dont have to spend that much to get a decent one they have a nice $200 option too I just spent a lil extra for the one that displays the voltage and has some fancy lights... that I have litterally never used haha.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'm not bringing my audio chain with me to hotels, except KSE1500, which has its own battery.


----------



## Dan Lee

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I'm not bringing my audio chain with me to hotels, except KSE1500, which has its own battery.


Definitely not suggesting that you do just using it as an example of how useful and helpful a power conditioner can be in any home.  But thats just me Im a little neurotic when it comes to doing everything I can possibly do to be sure my system produces as little noise and grain as possible.


----------



## Dan Lee

betula said:


> Time to time I am wondering about getting a Mjolnir2, so I thought I ask for opinions in this thread. I use a Chord 2Qute with my Questyle 600i at the moment and planar headphones (LCD2). I know the Mjolnir2 is recommended for planars, but I also heard the single ended input is the amp's weak point (for whatever reason).
> I quite like my Chord/Questyle combo, it is extremely clean, clear, punchy, detailed. There is a good 3D space where the music is happening. I like the ease of use of a ss amp. Switch on whenever I want to listen to music, it never runs hot.
> What makes Mjolnir2 potentially appealing to me is the extra 'tubiness' (keeping balanced mode). Even more power, possibly a slightly warmer sound without loosing on details, and possibly a stronger bass experience. My combo provides extremely clean, detailed and punchy bass, but I think Mjolnir2 might give a thicker bass texture which I could enjoy. I also like the mids on my combo, but I'd expect the Mjolnir2 to offer slightly more lifelike vocals. I am also happy with the treble presentation of my combo. It is clean, clear, detailed. Just under the level of not being sharp to my ears. From the Mjolnir 2 vs the CMA600i (+2Qute) I would expect a little smoother treble but not loosing much on details.
> Since I am happy with my present combo, this is purely curiosity towards the Mjolnir2. Just wondering if I'd enjoy it a little more.
> ...


My MJ2 and Gumby are supposed to be here tomorrow finally.  Cant wait to hear how it sounds at which point I will be better able to offer you some advice.  I had a CMA400i recently which basically is identical to the 600i with a little less power but same DAC.  For the time that I had it I was very impressed with the sound quality it produced and found it to be very clean and smooth sounding with good bass impact.  But I also had a Jotunheim with multibit dac module and when switching back and forth between the two trying to figure out which of the units sound signatures I prefered I found the Jot to be, at least to my ears, better at producing details while still providing a fantastic musicality for $200 less so I returned the 400i and decided I wanted more of the multibit sound with a higher end amp and we shall see tomorrow if I made a good decision or not.  Hell I have been waiting for this pair for like a month now and with the help of this thread specifically TK and Auditory Canvas I have already aquired quite the collection of tubes to try.


----------



## betula

Dan Lee said:


> My MJ2 and Gumby are supposed to be here tomorrow finally.  Cant wait to hear how it sounds at which point I will be better able to offer you some advice.  I had a CMA400i recently which basically is identical to the 600i with a little less power but same DAC.  For the time that I had it I was very impressed with the sound quality it produced and found it to be very clean and smooth sounding with good bass impact.  But I also had a Jotunheim with multibit dac module and when switching back and forth between the two trying to figure out which of the units sound signatures I prefered I found the Jot to be, at least to my ears, better at producing details while still providing a fantastic musicality for $200 less so I returned the 400i and decided I wanted more of the multibit sound with a higher end amp and we shall see tomorrow if I made a good decision or not.  Hell I have been waiting for this pair for like a month now and with the help of this thread specifically TK and Auditory Canvas I have already aquired quite the collection of tubes to try.


That is exciting and I am looking forward to reading your impressions. The 400i however is not the 600i. Especially when I use an external DAC (2Qute) and am not interested in the built in DACs, purely the amp sections. The built in 600i DAC compared to the 2Qute is pretty mediocre. Combined with the smooth ss current mode amplifier however Chord+Questyle is quite a pleasing combo. Awesome clarity, punch, detail. I am just wondering if I combined the 2Qute with the Mjolnir2 I had a warmer sound with stronger bass texture without loosing much clarity/detail?


----------



## TK16

Dan Lee said:


> My MJ2 and Gumby are supposed to be here tomorrow finally.  Cant wait to hear how it sounds at which point I will be better able to offer you some advice.  I had a CMA400i recently which basically is identical to the 600i with a little less power but same DAC.  For the time that I had it I was very impressed with the sound quality it produced and found it to be very clean and smooth sounding with good bass impact.  But I also had a Jotunheim with multibit dac module and when switching back and forth between the two trying to figure out which of the units sound signatures I prefered I found the Jot to be, at least to my ears, better at producing details while still providing a fantastic musicality for $200 less so I returned the 400i and decided I wanted more of the multibit sound with a higher end amp and we shall see tomorrow if I made a good decision or not.  Hell I have been waiting for this pair for like a month now and with the help of this thread specifically TK and Auditory Canvas I have already aquired quite the collection of tubes to try.


Have you received the 5670 to ECC88 adapters yet, if so your good to go. My tubes are fully burned in, also good to go. Hope they come tomorrow bro.


----------



## Dan Lee

TK16 said:


> Have you received the 5670 to ECC88 adapters yet, if so your good to go. My tubes are fully burned in, also good to go. Hope they come tomorrow bro.


I did finally get my gungnir and mjolnir today and also did get the adapters you suggested.  I gotta say I am just blown away at just how much better this setup sounds to me then the jotunheim with multi dac mod.  I am well aware that the gungnir multi is supposed to get even better as it warms up which just blows my mind cause these two devices have already made my LCD-Xs sound better then they ever have and that is with only a couple hours of burn in time.  Thanks again man.


----------



## Brooklyn70

I’ve been kicking the idea around about picking up the MJ2 for awhile now.   I’ve got the Jotunheim now.   How much of a difference is the sound being the output stage looks to be the same?


----------



## Dan Lee

Ive got both and as far as I can tell the MJ2 is far superior to Jot.  You can tweak the sound a good bit to better suit your personal listening preferences.  I am currently running some fantastic tubes that seem to provide an incredible level of detail retrieval while providing a better soundstage and a slight bump in the bass impact area.  Thats not to say that I dont enjoy the Jot because I definitely do it is a truly fantastic SS amp but I personally just find that I am enjoying the use of the MJ2 more.


----------



## Brooklyn70

Dan Lee said:


> Ive got both and as far as I can tell the MJ2 is far superior to Jot.  You can tweak the sound a good bit to better suit your personal listening preferences.  I am currently running some fantastic tubes that seem to provide an incredible level of detail retrieval while providing a better soundstage and a slight bump in the bass impact area.  Thats not to say that I dont enjoy the Jot because I definitely do it is a truly fantastic SS amp but I personally just find that I am enjoying the use of the MJ2 more.


What are the tubes that your now using?


----------



## JamesCanada

I've been trying to find a nice tube amp to pair with my RME ADI Dac-2 and this bad boy is on the short list of interest.
Does anyone have experience with the pairing? I did a quick search in the discussion and came up short.
There are no distributors where I am so, I can't just try them out.
I own a few pairs of HP and currently I am running them all straight out of the RME.
here is the short list: Sen 800S, E-Mu Teak, HD6XX and Oppo PM3
My other Option would have been a Woo WA6 instead.
Thanks for your time!

James


----------



## Dan Lee (Sep 21, 2018)

Brooklyn70 said:


> What are the tubes that your now using?


I am currently using a genuine pair of 1950s Western Electric 396As with an adapter.  They sound incredible.  The LCD-X is a relatively 3D sounding headphone on its own but this pairing with MJ2 has not only increased that 3D effect but also seems to have bumped the bass a good bit and overall sound quality is just fantastic.  I also ran it with some genuine 1960s Siemens E88CCs from Germany and these are fantastic tubes as well with those the clarity I heard from them was insane along with the increase in bass.  I think this amp and dac pairing is my end game for a long time to come.  Now to just get $4000 together to buy either the LCD-4s or Utopias which from what Ive read about their comparisons I will most likely end up with the 4s.  Man I am listening right now and an Eminem song I havent heard in forever just came on and God is the 3D effect dramatic and so intoxicating.  You litterally cant go wrong with these things.  By the way I aquired these tubes from members of head-fi by the names of TK16 and Auditory Canvas to whom I am forever greatful for all the help they offered me in tube recomendations.  Love this forum.


----------



## Brooklyn70

Dan Lee said:


> I am currently using a genuine pair of 1950s Western Electric 396As with an adapter.  They sound incredible.  The LCD-X is a relatively 3D sounding headphone on its own but this pairing with MJ2 has not only increased that 3D effect but also seems to have bumped the bass a good bit and overall sound quality is just fantastic.  I also ran it with some genuine 1960s Siemens E88CCs from Germany and these are fantastic tubes as well with those the clarity I heard from them was insane along with the increase in bass.  I think this amp and dac pairing is my end game for a long time to come.  Now to just get $4000 together to buy either the LCD-4s or Utopias which from what Ive read about their comparisons I will most likely end up with the 4s.  Man I am listening right now and an Eminem song I havent heard in forever just came on and God is the 3D effect dramatic and so intoxicating.  You litterally cant go wrong with these things.  By the way I aquired these tubes from members of head-fi by the names of TK16 and Auditory Canvas to whom I am forever greatful for all the help they offered me in tube recomendations.  Love this forum.


I’ve got a pair of Argons mk2,Talos both t50rp mods m1060 and a ultrasone 750 pro


----------



## Dan Lee

Brooklyn70 said:


> I’ve got a pair of Argons mk2,Talos both t50rp mods m1060 and a ultrasone 750 pro


Ive personally not listened to any of those but have heard great things about them.  I feel that any headphone will pair well with the MJ2 after spending some time with it.  It offers unrelenting power when needed, amazing clarity, and just an overall quality sound though admitedly I didnt even bother to try it with the stock tubes so it very well could be dependent upon a great tube choice as others have stated in this thread.  Or it could be that my Gumby has had enough warm up time to show its true colors.  Either way these two are my end game for a while.


----------



## Brooklyn70

Dan Lee said:


> Ive personally not listened to any of those but have heard great things about them.  I feel that any headphone will pair well with the MJ2 after spending some time with it.  It offers unrelenting power when needed, amazing clarity, and just an overall quality sound though admitedly I didnt even bother to try it with the stock tubes so it very well could be dependent upon a great tube choice as others have stated in this thread.  Or it could be that my Gumby has had enough warm up time to show its true colors.  Either way these two are my end game for a while.


I’m about to pull the trigger on the MJ2.  Can you point me in the direction where you got the tubes and pin converters


----------



## koover (Sep 22, 2018)

Brooklyn70 said:


> I’m about to pull the trigger on the MJ2.  Can you point me in the direction where you got the tubes and pin converters


Go here
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/unread
Then look up @AuditoryCanvas. Look at his signature. That’s just a few he’s selling. You won’t find a better seller here or on eBay. He also has adapters. Just PM him and thank me later 

Also @TK16 sometimes sells off some of his stash. Another great guy like AC and both are reasonable. If they don’t have what you’re looking for TK is ALWAYS posting links for tubes in the thread and I mean all the time


----------



## Dan Lee

@Brooklyn70 I 100% agree with @koover as TK and Ac both took time to help me out and I got some really stellar tubes from them and they shipped out quickly and I couldnt be happier.


----------



## Brooklyn70

koover said:


> Go here
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/unread
> Then look up @AuditoryCanvas. Look at his signature. That’s just a few he’s selling. You won’t find a better seller here or on eBay. He also has adapters. Just PM him and thank me later
> 
> Also @TK16 sometimes sells off some of his stash. Another great guy like AC and both are reasonable. If they don’t have what you’re looking for TK is ALWAYS posting links for tubes in the thread and I mean all the time


Thank you both for your help


----------



## Dan Lee

No problem man just tryin to pass it forward.  This forum has been an incredible help to me.


----------



## TK16

Thanks fellas for the kind words!


----------



## Dan Lee

Just wanted to throw this out there.  So so far I have rocked a matched pair of Siemens nos tubes, a matched pair of WE 396As, and am currently listening to a matched pair of Reflektor 6N3P-Is and right now I am really enjoying the sound of the Reflektors.  I find them to add a good bit to the holographic effect and the clarity is truly unreal.  I am hearing some of the most minute details in music that I have listened to 100s of times.  I can guarantee this is not a placebo thing as it is clear as day the additional info that is coming through so clearly right now.  The Siemens and Western Electrics had a bit more bass impact to them and I am gonna have to go back and listen to them again now just to make sure Im not losing my mind.  But I tell you what this just makes me wanna go to Brent Jesses site n spend some big bucks that I dont have on some ridiculous CCAs or something crazy.  What are your thoughts @TK16 and @AuditoryCanvas .  Have yall listened to any of the crazy outragous priced tubes and found any of them to be worth it?  How do yall feel bout the Reflektors?


----------



## TK16

Dan Lee said:


> Just wanted to throw this out there.  So so far I have rocked a matched pair of Siemens nos tubes, a matched pair of WE 396As, and am currently listening to a matched pair of Reflektor 6N3P-Is and right now I am really enjoying the sound of the Reflektors.  I find them to add a good bit to the holographic effect and the clarity is truly unreal.  I am hearing some of the most minute details in music that I have listened to 100s of times.  I can guarantee this is not a placebo thing as it is clear as day the additional info that is coming through so clearly right now.  The Siemens and Western Electrics had a bit more bass impact to them and I am gonna have to go back and listen to them again now just to make sure Im not losing my mind.  But I tell you what this just makes me wanna go to Brent Jesses site n spend some big bucks that I dont have on some ridiculous CCAs or something crazy.  What are your thoughts @TK16 and @AuditoryCanvas .  Have yall listened to any of the crazy outragous priced tubes and found any of them to be worth it?  How do yall feel bout the Reflektors?


Personally feel very few of the 6922 variants are worth the money. Traded a pair of Telefunken E188CC for a pair of 56 Valvo CCa Heerlen, that was worth it. The Siemens CCa grey shield early 60's were worth it when got good deal on them. The last pair of Telefunken E188CC were worth it for about $250 I paid for them. My 2 pair of Heerlen D getter E88CC/6922 were worth it for the deals I got. That is about it for those variants. The 2C51/5670/396A/6N3P variants I got are worth every penny I paid. Find them better than the vast majority of 6922 variants and much cheaper. Just getting into the 12AT7/ECC81/6201/E180CC variants. These tubes are more readily available than the 6922 and 12AX7 variants that a quite a bit more expensive. All you need is an adapter to use the 12AT7 variants in your MJ2.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'm finding myself a bit less involved with my rig of late. Maybe that'll change in the winter. Anyway, MJ2 seems likely to be where I'll end in terms of amplification.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'm finding myself a bit less involved with my rig of late. Maybe that'll change in the winter. Anyway, MJ2 seems likely to be where I'll end until I'm a lot wealthier and living in a much quieter apartment.


----------



## Dan Lee

TK16 said:


> Personally feel very few of the 6922 variants are worth the money. Traded a pair of Telefunken E188CC for a pair of 56 Valvo CCa Heerlen, that was worth it. The Siemens CCa grey shield early 60's were worth it when got good deal on them. The last pair of Telefunken E188CC were worth it for about $250 I paid for them. My 2 pair of Heerlen D getter E88CC/6922 were worth it for the deals I got. That is about it for those variants. The 2C51/5670/396A/6N3P variants I got are worth every penny I paid. Find them better than the vast majority of 6922 variants and much cheaper. Just getting into the 12AT7/ECC81/6201/E180CC variants. These tubes are more readily available than the 6922 and 12AX7 variants that a quite a bit more expensive. All you need is an adapter to use the 12AT7 variants in your MJ2.


I certainly dont have your level of experience here but from my observations thus far I agree with you 100%.  I have a great pair of Siemens E88CCs that are awesome but all the others Ive listened to in that variant sound rather uninspiring.  so far I am loving the 6N3Ps and others from that varriant.  How do you feel the 12AT7 sound in comparrison to the 6N3P type?


----------



## TK16

From the little I have heard of 12AT7 family so far, the only 6N3P`s that can compete are the Reflektor or Foton (they sound identical to my ears)  50`s 6N3P triple micas imo. Maybe the late 50`s Foton 2x mica 6N3P. Have a lot more sets I need to burn in as well.


----------



## Vinhlocex

Hi Everyone ! 
I have just ordered Mjolnir 2 from Schiit Website. It show the line "backorder 11 - 16"
The information is too short. Please show me what it mean. It 'll delay 11 to 16 days or it'll be in stock in 16 November. Hiz. 

Reading all of the thread. Thought that it would be 1-2 months waiting.


----------



## Dan Lee

Vinhlocex said:


> Hi Everyone !
> I have just ordered Mjolnir 2 from Schiit Website. It show the line "backorder 11 - 16"
> The information is too short. Please show me what it mean. It 'll delay 11 to 16 days or it'll be in stock in 16 November. Hiz.
> 
> Reading all of the thread. Thought that it would be 1-2 months waiting.


Yeah looks like it will be november 16th.  It is an incredibly popular amp and they sell a lot of them quickly mine was backordered too for almost a month.  But I can assure you it is worth the wait.


----------



## Vinhlocex

Thanks for your answer.

I'm eager to try this amp so much. Keep trying to save money for Gungnir. Hoping that it is my end game. I also order LCD-X creator package which is not include Balance Cable. Would you help me to pick another company for balance cable. Thanks so much


----------



## Mike-WI

Vinhlocex said:


> Thanks for your answer.
> 
> I'm eager to try this amp so much. Keep trying to save money for Gungnir. Hoping that it is my end game. I also order LCD-X creator package which is not include Balance Cable. Would you help me to pick another company for balance cable. Thanks so much


I have used Moon Audio. I'm sure there are many others.


----------



## dieslemat

Vinhlocex said:


> Thanks for your answer.
> 
> I'm eager to try this amp so much. Keep trying to save money for Gungnir. Hoping that it is my end game. I also order LCD-X creator package which is not include Balance Cable. Would you help me to pick another company for balance cable. Thanks so much




Not to make fun of anyone but if you stay away from this forum then there’s a better chance that your end game setup will be really your end game setup.

Else you’ll find loads of information and recommendations that your end game is always a moving target


----------



## Vinhlocex

Hi hi. I love the way you think. It's really true. People are often greedy. We've reached the point that we image the best (Maybe, Money limit our thoughts). Keeping it in the short time. Recharge our power and establish new targets. Following other's opinions...It makes us more motivated in life. Hoping that we keep that fires

Nevertheless, following these forums make us know that we are too small in the big worlds. To realize that the most valuable parts of our bodies is our ears

If I only pick the best ( Yggdrasil/ Ragnarok) , i can't compare them to these others DAC/Amp 

Sorry, too boring


----------



## dieslemat

Vinhlocex said:


> Hi hi. I love the way you think. It's really true. People are often greedy. We've reached the point that we image the best (Maybe, Money limit our thoughts). Keeping it in the short time. Recharge our power and establish new targets. Following other's opinions...It makes us more motivated in life. Hoping that we keep that fires
> 
> Nevertheless, following these forums make us know that we are too small in the big worlds. To realize that the most valuable parts of our bodies is our ears
> 
> ...



Ok I can help you with this I have the Yggy A2, Ragnarok and MJ2 for a little over a year now. 

I would say that interms of sound versatility the best bet between the Rag and MJ2 is the MJ2. You can swap tubes and all that but once you get into your “end game” tubes you probably wont tube roll anymore (only if you stick to a close few genres)

That being said, the Rag wins over usage versatility because you can use it as a headphone amp and as a speaker amp. As a speaker amp the Rag is really great. In terms of sound the Rag is precise and a little bit analytical. MJ2 given the proper tubes can be very musical.

So which one do I use the most, I would say they are even. For classical music, acoustic etc I plug in my MJ2. For pop, rock etc its the Rag. For sharing the music to the family of course it would bd the Rag.

Also this are my opinions and I think others would have a different experience.

All in all you can go wrong with either. Congrats on your investment on the MJ2. 

I hope this helps. 


P.S. I also want to give Gungnir a try


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

MJ2 is a fabulous preamp for my powered monitors. If only it had a remote...


----------



## Vinhlocex

dieslemat said:


> Ok I can help you with this I have the Yggy A2, Ragnarok and MJ2 for a little over a year now.
> 
> I would say that interms of sound versatility the best bet between the Rag and MJ2 is the MJ2. You can swap tubes and all that but once you get into your “end game” tubes you probably wont tube roll anymore (only if you stick to a close few genres)
> 
> ...




Thanks for your helps
MJ2 is really what i need. I am not investing speaker so Rag is not my choice. Acoustic is also my favorites. I will joint to the world of Tube later to change my listening style

I would pick the Gungnir for it price (Yggdrasil is too high). Just want to know, Yggdrasil is a next step or it just like Rag and MJ2

PS: I connect Onkyo DPX1 + MJ2 + LCDX (Poor setup). Waiting for Gungir to complete.


----------



## TeeQ

Vinhlocex said:


> Thanks for your helps
> MJ2 is really what i need. I am not investing speaker so Rag is not my choice. Acoustic is also my favorites. I will joint to the world of Tube later to change my listening style
> 
> I would pick the Gungnir for it price (Yggdrasil is too high). Just want to know, Yggdrasil is a next step or it just like Rag and MJ2
> ...



I'm only parroting what I've read. 

High level like Rag and MJ2. If the ultimate detail retrieval and accuracy is what you are after. Its Rag and Yag. The Gung and MJ2 are going to be a bit warmer and laid back listing experience. I think somewhere online i read that Jason from schiit actually prefers to listen to the Gung over the Yag. So to each his own. 

I have a the MJ2 and Gung and have to say they sound amazing together, but have never heard the Rag or Yag. Would love to some day.


----------



## davisman (Oct 20, 2018)

Its been roughly a week with my gumby/mj2 and I can confidently say that it is a deadly duo. It is a pretty massive improvement on my bifrost uber/WA7 (gen 1) setup I had before, mainly I think that the gumby is just simply better than the bifrost uber is every way. However, I have to say that the WA7 is extremely competent.

The WA7 vs Mjolnir 2 is not exactly a fair comparison but the little woo amp is extremely competent. I have upgraded tubes in it, and stock tubes in the Mjolnir. The WA7 does not have the space nor the air the Mjolnir has, and the Mjolnir does a better job in tightening up the bass. Even so, the WA7 is more musical to my ears, and a better pairing with the th900. Really I think its just obvious I need some new tubes for the Mjolnir. I feel like the stock ones hold it back a lot. In fact I prefer the LISST tubes to the stock ones schiit sales. 

Also, I guess it is possible Schiit could have made it more difficult to remove the tubes but I don't really know how. I feel like socket savers are a must have.

I should have mentioned that with LISST MJ2 is hands down better than the WA7. Maybe its just me, but the stock tube are not worth buying IMO.


----------



## jmpsmash

Vinhlocex said:


> Hi Everyone !
> I have just ordered Mjolnir 2 from Schiit Website. It show the line "backorder 11 - 16"
> The information is too short. Please show me what it mean. It 'll delay 11 to 16 days or it'll be in stock in 16 November. Hiz.
> 
> Reading all of the thread. Thought that it would be 1-2 months waiting.



I just visited the Schiitr and picked up probably the only Mjolnir in stock until 11/16.


----------



## jmpsmash (Nov 14, 2018)

davisman said:


> Its been roughly a week with my gumby/mj2 and I can confidently say that it is a deadly duo. It is a pretty massive improvement on my bifrost uber/WA7 (gen 1) setup I had before, mainly I think that the gumby is just simply better than the bifrost uber is every way. However, I have to say that the WA7 is extremely competent.
> 
> The WA7 vs Mjolnir 2 is not exactly a fair comparison but the little woo amp is extremely competent. I have upgraded tubes in it, and stock tubes in the Mjolnir. The WA7 does not have the space nor the air the Mjolnir has, and the Mjolnir does a better job in tightening up the bass. Even so, the WA7 is more musical to my ears, and a better pairing with the th900. Really I think its just obvious I need some new tubes for the Mjolnir. I feel like the stock ones hold it back a lot. In fact I prefer the LISST tubes to the stock ones schiit sales.



I have been burning in the MJ2 non-stop for the past 60+ hours. it sounded pretty horrible at the beginning. this morning it seem to have opened up. But so far it is still not up to the level in clarity and openness as my WA8 that I am hoping to replace. I have swapped in a couple sets of NOS tubes that I have lying around. a pair of Tele 6DJ8 and a pair of those Russian 6H23P. They improve things a little but still, the MJ2 sounds a bit muffled at the top end. the WA8, like your WA7, sounds more musical, has a sweeter sound to it.

I am expecting greater things from the MJ2 with more burn in. keeping my fingers crossed. It ticks so many boxes for what I want.


----------



## davisman

I have had a chance to try some different tubes including some really good NOS tubes that were unfortunately a little too noisy. Overall I am pretty happy with MJ2, and I have found that the JJ gold pin 6922 tubes are actually pretty decent for the price. They will work until I find a decent set of NOS tubes that will play nice with my Ether 2 headphones.


----------



## KaiserTK

I repurchased the Mjolnir 2 because I really missed its hard punching dynamics with high levels of detail that I just couldn’t find in other tube amps in its price range. I got the Liquid Platinum as well, but both are a keeper in different ways.

Does anybody here have a spare pair of WE396As? I sold my previous pair and I’m on the lookout for them again (late 50s early 60s).


----------



## Vinhlocex (Dec 2, 2018)

I ordered Mjolnir 2 two months ago  and still waiting. Do not know how long it would be shipped ???


----------



## Mr.Z

How does this compare to Taurus?


----------



## money4me247

Sorry if this is already known, but I wasn't able to find the LISST tubes on the Schiit website anymore. Has this item been discontinued?


----------



## Rowethren

money4me247 said:


> Sorry if this is already known, but I wasn't able to find the LISST tubes on the Schiit website anymore. Has this item been discontinued?



Yep, too difficult to make and not enough sold to bother continuing them is what Jason said.


----------



## Deftone

Anyone know how much Vrms for Mjolnir 2?


----------



## JohnnyCanuck

Deftone said:


> Anyone know how much Vrms for Mjolnir 2?



From the website:
Gain: 8 (18dB) or 1(0db), via front-panel switch

So, either the same as or 8x as much as the input voltage, depending on the gain setting.

JC


----------



## SLC1966

JohnnyCanuck said:


> From the website:
> Gain: 8 (18dB) or 1(0db), via front-panel switch
> 
> So, either the same as or 8x as much as the input voltage, depending on the gain setting.
> ...


So on 300 ohm headphones I keep it on high gain with minimal pot adjustment room. Low gain would be better so I have more play in the volume knob?  Or it really does not matter?


----------



## JohnnyCanuck

It doesn't matter a whole lot.  In your case I'd start with the low gain setting in order to retain some flexibility with the volume control.

Cheers,
JC


----------



## SLC1966

Thank you @JohnnyCanuck.  Psychologically in low gain I think I am missing something.


----------



## tjl5709

SLC1966 said:


> Thank you @JohnnyCanuck.  Psychologically in low gain I think I am missing something.



Another question maybe this: Are you using SE or balanced to your HP's? I run balanced and can't see how it is possible to run at high gain. On low gain I'm at 40-50% on the dial. This is with both planners and dynamic drivers.


----------



## SLC1966 (Dec 25, 2018)

tjl5709 said:


> Another question maybe this: Are you using SE or balanced to your HP's? I run balanced and can't see how it is possible to run at high gain. On low gain I'm at 40-50% on the dial. This is with both planners and dynamic drivers.


I am running balanced with 300 ohm ZMF dynamics. Yes, on high gain there is no wiggle room on dial. From no sound to too loud is minimal movement of pot.


----------



## koover

SLC1966 said:


> I am running balanced with 300 ohm ZMF dynamics. Yes, on high gain there is no wiggle room on dial. From no sound to too loud is minimal movement of pot.


Interesting. When I’m using any headphone rated @ 300 Ohms, balanced on high gain, I couldn’t possibly go past probably 11AM on the POT. I listen pretty loud too. Something seems amiss.


----------



## tjl5709

SLC1966 said:


> I am running balanced with 300 ohm ZMF dynamics. Yes, on high gain there is no wiggle room on dial. From no sound to too loud is minimal movement of pot.



Got it. Only reason I asked was MJ2 SE is lower power than balanced. I find low gain has less background noise (hiss) than high gain. But that depends on the sensitivity of your HP's. To me, I always try to run at the lowest gain that will provide the volume needed. To me, it is a cleaner signal. But that is just me.


----------



## SLC1966

koover said:


> Interesting. When I’m using any headphone rated @ 300 Ohms, balanced on high gain, I couldn’t possibly go past probably 11AM on the POT. I listen pretty loud too. Something seems amiss.


My wording is probably off. On high gain I can only get to 7 am to 8 am on the pot before it is too loud.  On low gain I get to 10:00.  My simple mind has always thought high gain is better but sounds like my basic thinking is off. Having more pot play in low gain sounds like the way to go.


----------



## Ichos

I use balanced out with low gain - HD800s - listening to classical music.
Classical is always recorded at lower levels so sometimes i need to go about 2 o'clock.
I find high gain to be a little more dynamic at the bass register but it makes the highs to sound ''metallic''.
I think it is best suited for low efficiency planars or maybe some beyer's.


----------



## chimney189

Does anyone have an impression of this amp paired with the HEK V2?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

After a year with the orange globes, I'm back to 100% solid state. Most of my listening is now with Airmotiv 4S.


----------



## FLTWS

bosiemoncrieff said:


> After a year with the orange globes, I'm back to 100% solid state. Most of my listening is now with Airmotiv 4S.



Now that is interesting. LISST's in MJ2?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff (Jan 4, 2019)

Indeed. I want my long long long long

long

long awaited HD800/K1000 review to be done with replicable parts (I lie only a little — MJ2 is amp for HD800 and preamp for Portal Panache, which powers K1000). Wagner inspects the Schiit Stack with a look of characteristic severity.


----------



## Ichos

So do you feel that ss is better for mjolnir as preamp and tubes better for HD800/S?


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Better, no. I just have used tubes for a year and wanted to switch it up. It depends on your mood, it depends on the tubes. But the differences are minor.


----------



## Ichos

I am tempted to give lisst's a try but i am reading that they don't work well with mj2.
Currently i am swithing between jj 6922 gold pins and jan 5670 listening to classical music with HD800s.
What do you think?


----------



## FLTWS

Ichos said:


> I am tempted to give lisst's a try but i am reading that they don't work well with mj2.
> Currently i am swithing between jj 6922 gold pins and jan 5670 listening to classical music with HD800s.
> What do you think?



I have LISST's for my MJ2 and LYR3 but find tubes to be a much clearer (less grain of some sort) window on the sound. No one can ever tell you what you'll hear, so you need to hear it for yourself. I personally don't like my HD800 with LISST's but that's me. Plus there may not be any left to sell at Schiit as they discontinued LISST's as far as I know. You may be able to acquire some used ones from sellers here on Head-Fi. 

Tubes may be a little shy at the frequency extremes but there's something about that sound and it's impossible for me to quantify or explain. But, given that, an SS circuit can be designed to sound equally good but it will still sound a little different to me. With SS I do seem to hear better extension with control (slightly) of sound into the frequency extremes. Maybe its psychological, I remember early 60's SS sound and it was execrable and maybe I can't quite shake those early impressions. 

I've got a Valhalla 2 on order to hear what Class A and OTL deliver compared to my other tube and SS amps (primarily for use with my HD800 and HD600). Just for giggles and schiits. Plus with tubes there is always the "rolling" action to search for variety and have fun with.


----------



## Ichos

I used to own Valhalla 2 and sold it for mjolnir 2.
The major flaw for me was the lack of slam and dynamics.
Between mj2 and Lyr 3 which one do you prefer for classical music with the HD800?


----------



## FLTWS

The LYR3 is amazing with every HP I have. We always talk about devices that hit way above their price point, LYR3 stacks up well against all the other amps I have (and I own all shown in my signature below). Keeping in mind that I'm HP's only, speakers might lead me to prefer some other amp / preamp in my arsenal. While SE only it still stands tall against my amps that have a balanced option, maybe it's the greater voltage delivery than average for an SE HP amp. I spent a couple hours yesterday comparing the LYR3 SE to one of my SS amps balanced after matching volume levels with a SPL meter, other than perhaps a small difference in sound stage and positioning of musicians in it, not much of difference to write home about between the two.

I'm sure if you follow the LYR3 impressions and tube rolling threads you will see that a very few owners (I believe its just a very few) have experienced operational issues with LYR3 and that's one of the  inherent aspect to being a tube-o-phile, sooner or later.... I'm also currently using an expensive new production Psvane Treasure Globe in my LYR3 and in my experience tubes do make a difference in the sound, with price not necessarily being the arbiter of a tube you may like the sound of versus one you do not care for. So it can take some coin and experimentation along with reading the impressions of others on different tube sounds in LYR3.

My 2 favorite tubes for the MJ2 with just about any HP are  the Telefunken ECC88 / 6922 and Amperex Jan 7308. I also enjoy the Brimar Ediswan ECC88 of 60's manufacture.


----------



## Ichos

Thank you for the detailed impressions!
Great description.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff (Jan 6, 2019)

Oh Schiit I didn’t realize LISST we’re gone. Oh well. I like them well enough. I just don’t think I’m as picky as others with respect to certain elements of the chain. Were there reliability issues or just lack of interest? I love hr fact that they won’t burn out.


----------



## Mike-WI

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Oh Schiit I didn’t realize LISST we’re gone. Oh well. I like them well enough. I just don’t think I’m as picky as others with respect to certain elements of the chain. Were there reliability issues or just lack of interest? I love hr fact that they won’t burn out.


Lack of interest I think.


----------



## FLTWS

Didn't sell well enough for the money, time and complexity of build it took to make them. if I remember what Jason said. The thinking being, I think, that time and money could be better put to use on other existing and new products.


----------



## koover

FLTWS said:


> Didn't sell well enough for the money, time and complexity of build it took to make them. if I remember what Jason said. The thinking being, I think, that time and money could be better put to use on other existing and new products.


Exactly!!


----------



## Ultimateaudioslave

kurb1980 said:


> I have a Benchmark DAC2 HGC and iFI iDSD Micro but I primarily use the Micro to upsample with HQP to DSD256 on my discreet music pc.  I do have some RCA to XLR cables that I might use from the Micro to Mj2 and compare RCA inputs.  But for sure I'm gonna go balanced out of the Mj2.


I am using a iFi micro iDSD with Mjo2 also, let me know that RCA to XLR adapter worked or not? also did u ever compare iDSD to GM? Please let me know my Mjo2 arrives day after.


----------



## Ultimateaudioslave

tjl5709 said:


> I moved from lyr2>MJ2. It was a natural progression as I like the tube effect on sound. Currently running HD800s after moving from HD650 when I found it was the weak link after moving from the Bifrost/Lyr combo.
> 
> Balanced it has more power, so I keep it on low gain. Very quiet background.
> 
> Bottom line: They work very well together, and combined with my Yggy DAC, I have no reason to move on.


Do you have any opinion on GumBi vs Yaggy with MJ2


----------



## tjl5709

Ultimateaudioslave said:


> Do you have any opinion on GumBi vs Yaggy with MJ2



Yep. It was a move I made about 3 months after getting Gumby. Bifrost to Gumby was going from 4 to 8. I was amazed. Gumby to Yggy was 8 to 10. Not as dramatic, but it was real. The detail retrieval is wonderful. I posted in either the gumby and/or yggy threads my thoughts a couple years back. It is a wonderful pairing, and I am done with my kit for dynamics other than updating yggy.

Summary: Going to multibit allowed me to enjoy my ripped CD's all over again. I'm old, so I lived during the transition from analog album to digital CD. The only benefit I saw at that time was convenience, durability, no pops or hiss. Sound wise, they kinda sucked. The real test for me is brass and cymbals. This taught me the real value of the DAC in the chain. My CD's now sound analog to me again. You can PM me if you want to dive into other aspects. Always willing to contribute. I have gained so much info from others, its only right to pay forward.

Provided you have upperlevel HP's, if you have the means, just get yggy and be done with it. Yggy/MJ2 (good NOS tubes) is wonderful.


----------



## Mike-WI

Ultimateaudioslave said:


> Do you have any opinion on GumBi vs Yaggy with MJ2


I have not done this audio comparison, but was thinking about various DAC options and thought about MJ2, Freya etc in chain.
I just decided to purchase the Yggdrasil so I didn't second guess (at least in the at the time Schiit options) for:
- displaying showing input
- phase change button (I never use this, but intrigued me in writeups)
- top of line for their MB DACs [Analog Devices AD5791BRUZ x 4 (2 per channel, hardware balanced configuration)], etc.

There is a silver B stock now:
http://www.schiit.com/b-stocks

Not sure if that helps.
I did here a Salk Streamer - Gungnir - Freya - Vidar - Salk Speakers stack at AXPONA 2018 and was blown away.
So, either will likely sound great.


----------



## tjl5709

Nothin wrong with B-stock. Purely cosmetic. If its buried in your stack, or your tight on cash, good option.


----------



## Ultimateaudioslave

I have finally reached the peak on the sound quality that I have always wanted on my Yaggy/MJ2 combo. With amperex NOS tubes from upscale audio and XLR output it sounded like heaven. My HD6XX s can reproduce the realness of SAXs in Louis Armstrong songs along with his voice; man! I am so happy. It took long time and couple of good quality cable replcements to reach this full yet mushy tuby happiness.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Ultimateaudioslave said:


> I have finally reached the peak on the sound quality that I have always wanted on my Yaggy/MJ2 combo. With amperex NOS tubes from upscale audio and XLR output it sounded like heaven. My HD6XX s can reproduce the realness of SAXs in Louis Armstrong songs along with his voice; man! I am so happy. It took long time and couple of good quality cable replcements to reach this full yet mushy tuby happiness.


Glad you found your sweet spot! What cables did you replace, MJ2 -> HP or DAC -> MJ2? I have some cheapy XLR's from Amazon I'm using to connect my balanced DAC to my amp and I'm wondering if spending much more would yield a noticeable difference.


----------



## Ultimateaudioslave

Relaxasaurus said:


> Glad you found your sweet spot! What cables did you replace, MJ2 -> HP or DAC -> MJ2? I have some cheapy XLR's from Amazon I'm using to connect my balanced DAC to my amp and I'm wondering if spending much more would yield a noticeable difference.


Hi, Yeah I was doing that mistake too. I got an amazon cable; that sounded good enough; I was happy. However I did not appreciate the MJ2 as much as others did. Then I got Schiit's PYST XLR from their website. Burnt it for couple of days; got a XLR but a not so special quality XLR cable from ebay for my HD650. The difference was night and day. Then I have purchasded an audioquest yukon for the DAC to amp section and a silver cable for 650. Will reach this weekend. I am sure that combo will rock. In a week if you want to buy the schiit PYST from me message me. But go and do it...you won't repent. I paid ~50 with shipping and tax.


----------



## Brooklyn70

Ultimateaudioslave said:


> Hi, Yeah I was doing that mistake too. I got an amazon cable; that sounded good enough; I was happy. However I did not appreciate the MJ2 as much as others did. Then I got Schiit's PYST XLR from their website. Burnt it for couple of days; got a XLR but a not so special quality XLR cable from ebay for my HD650. The difference was night and day. Then I have purchasded an audioquest yukon for the DAC to amp section and a silver cable for 650. Will reach this weekend. I am sure that combo will rock. In a week if you want to buy the schiit PYST from me message me. But go and do it...you won't repent. I paid ~50 with shipping and tax.


These are the cables I’ve been using coming out of a Cayin idac6 to a XLR switch to the MJ2 n the Jot,   The sound change was crazy
https://www.amazon.com/Units-Balanced-Microphone-Amphenol-Connectors/dp/B074XYJYMK


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Brooklyn70 said:


> coming out of a Cayin idac6 to a XLR switch to the MJ2 n the Jot



Which XLR switch are you using? I had my eyes on this one:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D7P7366/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_SEuICb2J8GDFR

Some people say you can use a simple XLR Y-splitter which others say would degrade the signal, so don't really want to go that route.


----------



## Brooklyn70

Relaxasaurus said:


> Which XLR switch are you using? I had my eyes on this one:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D7P7366/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_SEuICb2J8GDFR
> 
> Some people say you can use a simple XLR Y-splitter which others say would degrade the signal, so don't really want to go that route.


Pigtails are messy,   This is the switch box I’m using it’s great it’s passive
https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Balanced-Converter-Audio-Selector/dp/B07D7P7366


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Brooklyn70 said:


> Pigtails are messy,   This is the switch box I’m using it’s great it’s passive
> https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Balanced-Converter-Audio-Selector/dp/B07D7P7366


Ah nice, same one I posted.  Considering your cables are expensive was there any concern running the signal through a switcher which may or may not have the same quality internals?


----------



## Ultimateaudioslave

I will give you an example, I was riunning my XBOX 1x optical through my samsung tv console. The sound was horrible. Bloated, bad quality. The fix was to use minimal connections coz it is costly to pay for too much good componants and every connection you put you loose some there. IMHO.


----------



## Brooklyn70

Relaxasaurus said:


> Ah nice, same one I posted.  Considering your cables are expensive was there any concern running the signal through a switcher which may or may not have the same quality internals?


At first.  Until I ran it direct from the DAC. Then through the switch  no change what so ever.   The cables are well worth the price.  Besides they are cheap compared to some of the other numbers I was seeing


----------



## Brooklyn70

Ultimateaudioslave said:


> I will give you an example, I was riunning my XBOX 1x optical through my samsung tv console. The sound was horrible. Bloated, bad quality. The fix was to use minimal connections coz it is costly to pay for too much good componants and every connection you put you loose some there. IMHO.


Never mind the output of the Xbox is crap.    There is no generation loss when you use opticial


----------



## Ultimateaudioslave

Brooklyn70 said:


> Never mind the output of the Xbox is crap.    There is no generation loss when you use opticial


 THAT IS WHAT I WANT TO SAY NEXT, THEN I DIRECTLY PUT THAT OPTICAL TO MY YGGDRASIL, THE RESULT IS WAYYYYYY BETTER. NOW I THINK IT IOS LIMITED BY MY AMAZON BASICS CRAP CABLE. IF I SECIDE TO GTET A AUDIOQUEST, IT WILL BE VERY VERY GOOD.


----------



## Brooklyn70

Ultimateaudioslave said:


> THAT IS WHAT I WANT TO SAY NEXT, THEN I DIRECTLY PUT THAT OPTICAL TO MY YGGDRASIL, THE RESULT IS WAYYYYYY BETTER. NOW I THINK IT IOS LIMITED BY MY AMAZON BASICS CRAP CABLE. IF I SECIDE TO GTET A AUDIOQUEST, IT WILL BE VERY VERY GOOD.


Audioquest cables are BIG $$$. I 100% love the cables I posted the link to the sound rounded out the bottom end got fatter


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I don’t believe in cable voodoo


----------



## Ultimateaudioslave

Brooklyn70 said:


> Audioquest cables are BIG $$$. I 100% love the cables I posted the link to the sound rounded out the bottom end got fatter


Because may be you did not burn the cable. Good cables sound fat at the beginning and becomes super smooth with time.


----------



## Brooklyn70

Ultimateaudioslave said:


> Because may be you did not burn the cable. Good cables sound fat at the beginning and becomes super smooth with time.


The cables were for sure burnt it.   The new ones are a heavier gauge way better connectors   Believe me I was one of those guys who said cables are cables.  Then I changed them out


----------



## BabetakCZE (Apr 3, 2019)

Hi all! I have one, probably stupid question.
If I have a DAC that is not balanced - for example Modi Multibit, can I use balanced XLR socket or just single ended 6,35mm (1/4 inch) ?
Thank you.


----------



## Charente

@BabetakCZE ... I have used my Metrum Flint which just has SE output to MJ2 and then XLR out to Aeon Flow Open headphones ... a switch on the front controls SE or XLR input to the MJ2


----------



## BabetakCZE

Great, thank you for quick answer.
So you dont need a balanced DAC to run headphones balanced out of Mjolnir 2, right?


----------



## Ultimateaudioslave

BabetakCZE said:


> Great, thank you for quick answer.
> So you dont need a balanced DAC to run headphones balanced out of Mjolnir 2, right?


right. Everything is interchangable.


----------



## Ichos

BabetakCZE said:


> Great, thank you for quick answer.
> So you dont need a balanced DAC to run headphones balanced out of Mjolnir 2, right?



Yes and even if you are using single ended in the signal after the pot is fully balanced.
You are loosing a little gain and a bit of clarity but still sounds very good.


----------



## kr11048

Relaxasaurus said:


> Some people say you can use a simple XLR Y-splitter which others say would degrade the signal, so don't really want to go that route.


Just in case anyone finds this thread while wondering about Y-splitters, I just tried that experiment myself. I have a vintage Lector Digicode Tube dac which sounds spectacular with its balanced XLR out on both my Stax 353X and my Taurus MkII. I didn't want to have to keep switching cables so I got a pair of Y-splitters from Blue Jeans Cable. I've been happy with everything I've gotten from them and their service is stellar. Bottom line is no matter how I arranged the wiring (whether going straight from dac>splitter>amp or dac>splitter>XLR cables>amp) whether both amps were even connected or powered on,  the difference in sound quality with the y-splitter in play was substantial. I'm not talking some subtle shift in soundstage. I'm talking a change from exquisite to well, bad enough to make me think there was something wrong with my Stax (thank goodness the sound quality came right back when I removed the splitter). I emailed Blue Jeans and explained that I didn't think there was anything "wrong" with their splitters. They just weren't meant to do what I was trying to do. They agreed and offered a full refund (there's that stellar service again) and even pointed me in the direction of a good switch, so that will be my next experiment.


----------



## ToTo Man

kr11048 said:


> Just in case anyone finds this thread while wondering about Y-splitters, I just tried that experiment myself. I have a vintage Lector Digicode Tube dac which sounds spectacular with its balanced XLR out on both my Stax 353X and my Taurus MkII. I didn't want to have to keep switching cables so I got a pair of Y-splitters from Blue Jeans Cable. I've been happy with everything I've gotten from them and their service is stellar. Bottom line is no matter how I arranged the wiring (whether going straight from dac>splitter>amp or dac>splitter>XLR cables>amp) whether both amps were even connected or powered on,  the difference in sound quality with the y-splitter in play was substantial. I'm not talking some subtle shift in soundstage. I'm talking a change from exquisite to well, bad enough to make me think there was something wrong with my Stax (thank goodness the sound quality came right back when I removed the splitter). I emailed Blue Jeans and explained that I didn't think there was anything "wrong" with their splitters. They just weren't meant to do what I was trying to do. They agreed and offered a full refund (there's that stellar service again) and even pointed me in the direction of a good switch, so that will be my next experiment.


Interesting.  A few weeks after getting my Yggy2 and Mjolnir2 I bought a pair of XLR Y-splitter cables to send Yggy2's balanced output to both Mjolnir2 and my Yamaha A-S3000.  I haven't done repeated A/B tests, but I didn't notice any degradation in SQ when I installed the splitter cables so have had no reason to want to remove them.  You have now however planted the seed in my brain.... damn you!....


----------



## kr11048

ToTo Man said:


> Interesting. A few weeks after getting my Yggy2 and Mjolnir2 I bought a pair of XLR Y-splitter cables to send Yggy2's balanced output to both Mjolnir2 and my Yamaha A-S3000. I haven't done repeated A/B tests, but I didn't notice any degradation in SQ when I installed the splitter cables so have had no reason to want to remove them. You have now however planted the seed in my brain.... damn you!....



Trust me, you would have noticed this. It was not subtle. I could tell within the first 3 notes of the first song I played that something was screwy. Maybe just the combo of the equipment I had. I'd say if you didn't notice a degradation, then you definitely didn't have the problem I did.


----------



## ToTo Man

kr11048 said:


> Trust me, you would have noticed this. It was not subtle. I could tell within the first 3 notes of the first song I played that something was screwy. Maybe just the combo of the equipment I had. I'd say if you didn't notice a degradation, then you definitely didn't have the problem I did.


Yours sounds a bit like the problem I had a few years ago when I split the RCA outputs of my Bifrost DAC to my Yamaha A-S3000 and Moon 430HA.  There was audible distortion on the Yamaha whenever the Moon was switched off.  The problem turned out to be the Moon shorting its inputs when unpowered.


----------



## kr11048

ToTo Man said:


> Yours sounds a bit like the problem I had a few years ago when I split the RCA outputs of my Bifrost DAC to my Yamaha A-S3000 and Moon 430HA. There was audible distortion on the Yamaha whenever the Moon was switched off. The problem turned out to be the Moon shorting its inputs when unpowered.


Maybe, but I was having the issue even when the other side of the Y splitter was completely disconnected. I'm getting a passive switcher today. Hopefully it will do better.


----------



## Rowethren

kr11048 said:


> Maybe, but I was having the issue even when the other side of the Y splitter was completely disconnected. I'm getting a passive switcher today. Hopefully it will do better.



Which switch did you go for? I have been on the hunt for a decent small passive XLR switch for a while now.

Also, if you are having a problem with the sound when the other device isn't even plugged in that sounds like the cable is faulty to me. No reason an extra length of cable would affect the sound as it isn't even making a complete circuit.


----------



## kr11048

Rowethren said:


> Which switch did you go for? I have been on the hunt for a decent small passive XLR switch for a while now.
> 
> Also, if you are having a problem with the sound when the other device isn't even plugged in that sounds like the cable is faulty to me. No reason an extra length of cable would affect the sound as it isn't even making a complete circuit.


That's what I was thinking, but the sound degradation happened whether or not the other side was connected. I don't think it was a faulty cable as it was brand new and Blue Jeans Cable makes quality stuff. I explained my situation to their support guy and with the quality of their service I'm sure they would've been happy to replace it if it seemed like a faulty cable.

For the switcher, I went for the Nobsound 1-in 3-out audio switch on Amazon for $59.99. I'll let you know if it works better than the splitter. If not, I'll have to look into active switchers.


----------



## Brooklyn70

kr11048 said:


> Trust me, you would have noticed this. It was not subtle. I could tell within the first 3 notes of the first song I played that something was screwy. Maybe just the combo of the equipment I had. I'd say if you didn't notice a degradation, then you definitely didn't have the problem I did.


Hey just a heads up I’m using this switch box it’s killer
https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Balanced-Converter-Audio-Selector/dp/B07D7P7366



Rowethren said:


> Which switch did you go for? I have been on the hunt for a decent small passive XLR switch for a while now.
> 
> Also, if you are having a problem with the sound when the other device isn't even plugged in that sounds like the cable is faulty to me. No reason an extra length of cable would affect the sound as it isn't even making a complete circuit.



give this a look. I’ve been using it for a year now and it’s great


----------



## Brooklyn70

Brooklyn70 said:


> Hey just a heads up I’m using this switch box it’s killer
> https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Balanced-Converter-Audio-Selector/dp/B07D7P7366
> give this a look. I’ve been using it for a year now and it’s great


It’s helps if you include the like for the wait switch
https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Balanced-Converter-Audio-Selector/dp/B07D7P7366


----------



## Rowethren

I had seen that one and it looks pretty solid for the money.


----------



## Brooklyn70

Rowethren said:


> I had seen that one and it looks pretty solid for the money.


100%   It’s solid across the board


----------



## kr11048

Did a short listening session with my new switcher and so far I'm very pleased. None of the ugliness that was there when I used the Y splitters. Didn't include a link last time because I figured there was no point linking to something I hadn't heard yet, but here it is on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Aud...03+Pro+3-Out)&qid=1562093578&s=gateway&sr=8-1

Same company as the one recommended by Brooklyn70 but a bit different configuration and slightly cheaper.


----------



## Rowethren

kr11048 said:


> Did a short listening session with my new switcher and so far I'm very pleased. None of the ugliness that was there when I used the Y splitters. Didn't include a link last time because I figured there was no point linking to something I hadn't heard yet, but here it is on Amazon:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Audio-Balanced-Converter-Selector/dp/B07R1XCNHG/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Nobsound+1-IN-3-OUT+XLR+Audio+Switch+;+Balanced+Audio+Converter+;+3-Way+Stereo+Passive+Audio+Selector+Switcher+(MC103+Pro+3-Out)&qid=1562093578&s=gateway&sr=8-1
> 
> Same company as the one recommended by Brooklyn70 but a bit different configuration and slightly cheaper.



Nice, I hadn't seen that one before! Looks ideal as I don't need RCA, all I need now is 6 custom length xlr cables lol...


----------



## Brooklyn70

Rowethren said:


> Nice, I hadn't seen that one before! Looks ideal as I don't need RCA, all I need now is 6 custom length xlr cables lol...


These are the cables I’m using and there killer
https://www.amazon.com/Units-Balanced-Microphone-Amphenol-Connectors/dp/B074XSDCG6


----------



## peter1480

My Schiit Mjolnir 2 is up for sale on the bay UK also got some tubes up as well. Just need to make some dask sace for a new monitor. Sad to see it go!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I wish MJ2 had a remote


----------



## Charente

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I wish MJ2 had a remote



I need the exercise !!


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

In my defense I’m using it as a preamp for powered monitors and watching a tv show at night means frequent audio adjustments so as not to disturb neighbors.


----------



## reddog

I just think my MJ2 is phenomenal hybrid tube amp.  The MJ2 is my second fav hybrid tube amp ( the first is my Cavalli Liquid Glass and mostly use it for jamming out to great music.  I use my Jotunheim for watching stuff on Netflix or other streaming services.  I feel a person can not go wrong in getting a MJ2 with some good Russian NOS tubes.  although the MJ2 does sound good with Gold Lions.   The MJ2  easily drives all of my headphones and IEM's.

.


----------



## Trickness

For me the hot setup for the MJ2 was Amperex 7308s, fed by a Yggdrasil A2, with Meze Empyrean cans. Absolutely to die for and only bettered when I bought a DNA Stratus.


----------



## gc335

Has anyone tested the SE versus XLR balanced inputs?  I'm trying to figure out if it's worth it to upgrade my DAC.  I'm pretty happy with my Bimby right now and it seems to feed the Mj just fine.


----------



## bryceu

gc335 said:


> Has anyone tested the SE versus XLR balanced inputs?  I'm trying to figure out if it's worth it to upgrade my DAC.  I'm pretty happy with my Bimby right now and it seems to feed the Mj just fine.


I have. Fed the Mjolnir 2 with both XLR and SE inputs coming from my RME ADI-2 DAC. The XLR performance is noticeably improved. However, I get the is the same result with my Monolith THX 887. I am unsure if this is due to decreased performance of the RME's RCA outputs in comparison to its XLR outputs, or if it is the result of decreased performance on the Mjolnir2/THX887's RCA vs XLR inputs. Anyone have any experience with a similar situation?


----------



## bryceu

Came here to express my appreciation for the excellent dynamics of the Mjolnir 2. With both LISST and stock 6dj8 tubes, the Mjolnir 2 continues to impress with its enticing bass performance and ability to simultaneously present both loud and the softest of details.


----------



## acguitar84

bryceu said:


> Came here to express my appreciation for the excellent dynamics of the Mjolnir 2. With both LISST and stock 6dj8 tubes, the Mjolnir 2 continues to impress with its enticing bass performance and ability to simultaneously present both loud and the softest of details.



Pretty cool! I'm running the RME Dac with Jotunheim and it's been a lot of fun. I've been thinking of "upgrading" from the Jotunheim though, and Mjolnir 2 is one amp I've looked at. I wish I could find more posts that compare the two (Jotunheim and Mjolnir 2). In any event, pretty nice to read good things about MJ2, thanks.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Jot is more accurate, mj2 is more euphonic. I wish I had gone rag though, not gonna lie


----------



## bryceu

acguitar84 said:


> Pretty cool! I'm running the RME Dac with Jotunheim and it's been a lot of fun. I've been thinking of "upgrading" from the Jotunheim though, and Mjolnir 2 is one amp I've looked at. I wish I could find more posts that compare the two (Jotunheim and Mjolnir 2). In any event, pretty nice to read good things about MJ2, thanks.


To me, Jot was brighter, offered less separation, and a flatter stage.
Mj2 more stage depth, better layering, imaging, more power (if even needed).


----------



## ruthieandjohn (Nov 30, 2019)

Near as I can tell, the Mjolnir 2 uses equally good-sounding processing for its single ended and its balanced outputs.  They are indistinguishable to me, using such headphones as HiFiMAN HE1000 (SE and balanced configurations), Grado PS2000e (ditto), Grado GS2000e (ditto), Fostex TH-900 (ditto), and Sony XBA-Z5 IEMs (ditto).  The Mjolnir is being fed by a balanced DAC, the Schiit Gungir Multibit.


----------



## Pomps

Vigrith said:


> Indeed, I imagine the WA5 is on a league of its own but I own the WA7 myself and the sound signature's between Woo and Schiit are relatively distinctive - probably hard to evaluate how the MJ2 pairs up against Woo's 5 that taken into consideration.
> 
> I prefer to keep needs separate, if my speakers needed a power amp I'd rather buy one later on rather than try and get something like the Jotun/Rag and have it do both. That said I do have a Jotunheim on order because I feel it'll be a fantastic device regardless of whether or not I'll ever use the pre-amp functionality.



Sorry for the so ”late” question. I won WA7 and am considering moving to MJ2. Is this smart, how do you compare MJ2 to WA7. Which one do you prefer? thanx


----------



## bryceu (Dec 6, 2019)

Mjolnir 2 really killing it with Livetronica genre right now. Far more engaging/enjoyable than the 887. Stock tubes.


----------



## bagwell359

ruthieandjohn said:


> Near as I can tell, the Mjolnir 2 uses equally good-sounding processing for its single ended and its balanced outputs.  They are indistinguishable to me, using such headphones as HiFiMAN HE1000 (SE and balanced configurations), Grado PS2000e (ditto), Grado GS2000e (ditto), Fostex TH-900 (ditto), and Sony XBA-Z5 IEMs (ditto).  The Mjolnir is being fed by a balanced DAC, the Schiit Gungir Multibit.



Equally good quality wise - probably.  But balanced is 8 watts into 32 ohms and SE is 2 watts into 32 ohms.

https://audio-head.com/the-new-schiit-the-schiit-show-2015/


----------



## Ultimateaudioslave

Pomps said:


> Sorry for the so ”late” question. I won WA7 and am considering moving to MJ2. Is this smart, how do you compare MJ2 to WA7. Which one do you prefer? thanx


Please let me know how it compares also. I am tired of Yggdrasil and Mjolnir and audioquest cables and crap. I want my simple and small solution days back.


----------



## arftech

Anybody ever used this with ZMF Headphones?  If so, how is/was the synergy?


----------



## Rowethren

arftech said:


> Anybody ever used this with ZMF Headphones?  If so, how is/was the synergy?



Sounds pretty great with my Verite Closed. Plenty of punch.


----------



## bryceu (Dec 20, 2019)

Mjolnir 2 paired excellently with the Verite Open. Great stage depth and natural sound. I really enjoyed the stock tubes with this pairing as well, only bested to me by the GE 396A which had the most euphonic character.


----------



## arftech

bryceu said:


> Mjolnir 2 paired excellently with the Verite Open. Great stage depth and natural sound. I actually really enjoyed the stock tubes with this pairing as well, only bested to me by the GE 396A which had amazing the most euphonic character.



I have Auteurs incoming today and I'm looking for a solution with tubes for amplification.  Had the original Lry and felt it wasn't that good in the bass department but was using the stock tubes on it.    Currently, I have an older Burson Conductor (using the amp section only) paired with the LCD-2 Fazors.


----------



## tjl5709

arftech said:


> I have Auteurs incoming today and I'm looking for a solution with tubes for amplification.  Had the original Lry and felt it wasn't that good in the bass department but was using the stock tubes on it.    Currently, I have an older Burson Conductor (using the amp section only) paired with the LCD-2 Fazors.



I moved up from Lyr 2 to the Mj2. I had quite a few NOS tubes and I wanted to go balanced with  my new DAC, so it was a natural move. That said, the Mj2 is better in almost all areas then the Lyr. Highs, Lows, sound stage, clarity, Power. The mids are comparably sweet/smooth. Tubes make a world of difference.

I use it to drive my Ether C Flows and HD-800s. 

I see no reason to "upgrade" to anything else at this point. It has plenty of headroom, and the cans sound excellent.

If I do any future moves, it will be to acquire some e-stats.


----------



## koover (Dec 20, 2019)

I haven’t heard or owned a headphone (currently own ZMF Aeolus and Ori) that didn’t sound good on this.


----------



## arftech

Thank you to all who have chimed with their respective thoughts.  Looks like I’m going in that direction .

Just got the Auteurs this evening and TBH something seems missing using the Burson to drive them.  It sounds just okay but I seek better than okay.  Man, this hobby!


----------



## bryceu

I've never heard the Burson Conductor so I can't comment on that amp. But I did own the Auteur Teak for a while before I moved on to Verite and I never really felt like anything was missing with the Auteur. My desire to upgrade to Verite was more based on craving the ZMF TOTL.

What is it that feels off/missing with the Auteur?


----------



## arftech

bryceu said:


> I've never heard the Burson Conductor so I can't comment on that amp. But I did own the Auteur Teak for a while before I moved on to Verite and I never really felt like anything was missing with the Auteur. My desire to upgrade to Verite was more based on craving the ZMF TOTL.
> 
> What is it that feels off/missing with the Auteur?



No No, I meant something seems to be missing with the amp.  Even with the LCD2 the amp seemed sort of thin.


----------



## bryceu

Ah well if it's the same offness with both headphones then yea definitely something you're not liking with the Burson. I definitely think the Auteur would have nice synergy with the Auteur, can't speak on behalf of the 2f as I have no experience there. The Auteur have a very relaxed tuning to my ears, and the Mjolnir 2 can be quite forward, in-your-face which would probably compliment (via countering) the Auteurs design. The Mjolnir 2 has nice depth that would play into Auteur's favor as well.


----------



## arftech

What is recommended as a socket saver for the MJ2 as I want to raise the tubes from the chassis?


----------



## bryceu (Dec 21, 2019)

Tubemonger is very popular.

These are very cheap from TubeDepot and I’ve used them myself as well.
https://www.tubedepot.com/products/9-pin-socket-saver


----------



## arftech

bryceu said:


> Tubemonger is very popular.
> 
> These are very cheap from TubeDepot and I’ve used them myself as well.
> https://www.tubedepot.com/products/9-pin-socket-saver



Thanks.  I just ordered a pair.


----------



## arftech

Happy Holidays!  I don’t have much experience with tube equipment but I’m wanting to know what’s the lifespan on tubes?


----------



## ruthieandjohn

5,000 hours of use according to words on Schiit equipment.


----------



## bryceu

Hey that would only take me 5.35 years at my current listening rate.


----------



## muffins

So I saw that Gavin C4 had asked about this a few years back, but for whatever reason my room builds up an astonishing amount of dust, and I worry about my Mjolnir 2. Is it feasible (not recommended of course) to take it apart and hit it with a can of air to clean it out? I adore this amp and don't want anything to happen to it, though I don't want to void my warranty. Any suggestions?


----------



## namvu257

hello,
I'm kinda new to this hobby.
I currently have h800s and just bought a Mjolnir 2/Gungnir Multibit to pair with it, I want to ask for some advice about tubes rolling.
After I do some research I think most of them recommend WE 396A and Telefunken E88CC or PCC 189
Can I have some thought on how is the sound different on those?
And if I want to go with WE 396A where are good sources to buy them as well as the adapter so it will work with the Mjolnir 2?

Thanks


----------



## tjl5709

Greetings.

I have the same HP and amp. Driving them with the Yggy.

Go to the lyr tube rolling thread, and look into the lyr 1 & 2 discussions, not the 3.. I moved from the lyr 2 to the MJ2. The MJ2 is higher power, cleaner on the high and low end. Both are sweet in the mids. They use the same tubes. 

My recommendation would be to target a couple of the higher rated tubes that fit your budget. They will enhance the cleaner and smoother sound the MJ2 provides.

The tube rolling game can become a vicious cycle wasting time and money. I would set a budget, and spread it over a couple sets. Don't set a budget and get lots of cheaper sets. You have a very nice setup. Get nice tubes.

I gathered my tubes quite a few years back so I cannot give you a recommendation on the current market.


----------



## ilcose

Hi all! I'm here just to ask one simple question. Is still the MJ2 a good option in the 2020? 

Now i explain bettere my request. 
First i mean: the MJ2 is around since some years and i fear that an upgrade could be ralased this year. Maybe a rolling one like the Yggy or the Gumby. Now i can afford the expense to go fully balanced but i'm not convinced about this "detail".
The rest of the setup is a Gumby with USB GEN5 and the Hifiman Ananda. At the moment i still using as an amplifier the valhalla 2 stock tubes that i was already using when i had the Senny HD650 and 660s. It is good but not the best for sure for the Ananda. 

Tl:dr: It's better to wait or to look at something else or i can go straight to the MJ2?


----------



## gc335

ilcose said:


> Hi all! I'm here just to ask one simple question. Is still the MJ2 a good option in the 2020?
> 
> Now i explain bettere my request.
> First i mean: the MJ2 is around since some years and i fear that an upgrade could be ralased this year. Maybe a rolling one like the Yggy or the Gumby. Now i can afford the expense to go fully balanced but i'm not convinced about this "detail".
> ...


I still have the original Mj1 and it's still VERY relevant in 2020.  I have not heard a better all around amp especially for planars.  The Mj2 will serve you well.


----------



## Rowethren

ilcose said:


> Hi all! I'm here just to ask one simple question. Is still the MJ2 a good option in the 2020?
> 
> Now i explain bettere my request.
> First i mean: the MJ2 is around since some years and i fear that an upgrade could be ralased this year. Maybe a rolling one like the Yggy or the Gumby. Now i can afford the expense to go fully balanced but i'm not convinced about this "detail".
> ...



I really enjoy my Mjolnir 2 still (owned it since 2016) but I sort of wouldn't be surprised if there was an update coming some time this year. Out of all their amps it is the only one that hasn't either been updated recently or been implied an update won't happen. 

Saying that an update doesn't make the current one any worse as it is already top notch!


----------



## Charente

Rowethren said:


> Saying that an update doesn't make the current one any worse as it is already top notch!



Yes, this is the key point, IMO. The pairing with the GMB is superb, sound-wise and aesthetic-wise. I have early 2017 originals of both, other than an EITR front-end to S/PDIF (BNC), which I prefer.


----------



## ilcose

Thanks you all for the answers! So i'll go for the MJ2 anytime soon and that's It.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'm in the minority who uses MJ2 with LISST. If I were buying today, I'd probably go for Rag 2 and then spring for Yg (GS or regular) when the proprietary USB implementation comes to them.


----------



## john9797

I bought a new Mjolnir & Yggdrasil in 9/2019. They are connected with Schiit's short balanced cables and power HE-500 headphones with a balanced cable. My source is USB from my computer. I leave the Yggy on at all times and switch the Mjolnir on and off when during use with the volume control all the way down. Two weeks ago, the fuse blew when I turned on the Mjolnir. After $50 in postage and two weeks without a preamp, I got the Mjolnir back today with a new fuse. Do you think leaving it on at all times would reduce the risk of blowing another fuse?


----------



## JohnIgel

john9797 said:


> I bought a new Mjolnir & Yggdrasil in 9/2019. They are connected with Schiit's short balanced cables and power HE-500 headphones with a balanced cable. My source is USB from my computer. I leave the Yggy on at all times and switch the Mjolnir on and off when during use with the volume control all the way down. Two weeks ago, the fuse blew when I turned on the Mjolnir. After $50 in postage and two weeks without a preamp, I got the Mjolnir back today with a new fuse. Do you think leaving it on at all times would reduce the risk of blowing another fuse?


I have the same set-up and operate it the same way. I leave the Yggdrasil on and turn the Mjolnir on only when in use and I have not experienced any issues with blown fuses.


----------



## Smoothstereo

Any MJ2 owners using a different type tube besides the 6922 and equivalent family and the 5670/396A/2C51 family with adapter? Just wondering if anyone rolled some other family type tubes with adapter besides the ones mentioned.


----------



## G0rt

Smoothstereo said:


> Any MJ2 owners using a different type tube besides the 6922 and equivalent family and the 5670/396A/2C51 family with adapter? Just wondering if anyone rolled some other family type tubes with adapter besides the ones mentioned.



I regularly use NOS Brimar CV4033 in my MJ2, on TubeMonger adaptors. Very smooth with great extension, and aren't to my ears overly warm. These are 12AT7 class, but with Mil specs.


----------



## TK16

Smoothstereo said:


> Any MJ2 owners using a different type tube besides the 6922 and equivalent family and the 5670/396A/2C51 family with adapter? Just wondering if anyone rolled some other family type tubes with adapter besides the ones mentioned.


Schiit Lyr tube rolling thread is a wealth of info. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-1544
You want to go back a couple years in this thread where the focus is on 12A*7, 6201, 7316. Every question you may have is answered in this thread. Basically the thread is 6922 variants in the first 1/3, 2nd 1/3 is 2C51/396A/6N3P and the last are all the 12.6/6.3v variants.


----------



## Smoothstereo

Thanks guys. Will take a look at that thread.


----------



## thomaskong78 (Apr 13, 2020)

Can I use 6sn7 tube with MJ2 using adapter?

Had anybody done this ?

How about 12Ax7 or 12 Au7 using adapter?

I have Telefuken 12Ax7 and Amperex 12Au7.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

My 2-1/2-year-old Mjolnir 2 just went dead.   It shows no signs of light, warmth, or noise when turned on, even though it was just fine a week ago.  Swapping the power cord with one known to be good (that goes to my Gungir!) does not help.

Is there an internal fuse that might have blown?

Or... did one or both of my tubes die?  When a tube dies, does it render the Mjolnir 2 lifeless, or just sound-less?

Thanks!


----------



## JohnnyCanuck

ruthieandjohn said:


> My 2-1/2-year-old Mjolnir 2 just went dead.   It shows no signs of light, warmth, or noise when turned on, even though it was just fine a week ago.  Swapping the power cord with one known to be good (that goes to my Gungir!) does not help.
> 
> Is there an internal fuse that might have blown?
> 
> ...



Yes, there is an internal fuse and your problems are unlikely to be caused by the tubes.

Probably better to return the unit to Schiit since it's still under warranty (assuming that it is, of course).  Attempts to change the fuse on your own will void your warranty.

Good luck,
JC


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I had the same problem and it was a blown fuse. Contact Schiit and tell them all that. They'll set you right.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Thanks, all... I have contacted Schikt, tjey got back to me promptly, and my MJ2 is now on its way to them.

Meanwhile, in its absence,  my wife must endure my self-made music of singing and piano playing. She's finding that my headphones make good noise abatement devices!


----------



## Smoothstereo

Too bad these fuses are not "user friendly" replaceable. If living on the east coast and having to ship the amp to Cali is costly and time consuming. Hope Schiit can make future products easier to replace the fuses.


----------



## prosnowboarder

Well I'll be getting a used mj2 here shortly and finally making the jump to fully balanced from my yggy2. My question is: 
after reading here a bit it seems low gain is preferred so you can go higher up on the volume knob unless you need to drive something extremely hard to drive. But from what I remember reading and from my experience the lyr 3 on high gain sound just a bit better and more engaging. What is the concensus with the mj2 at this point?


----------



## Rowethren

prosnowboarder said:


> Well I'll be getting a used mj2 here shortly and finally making the jump to fully balanced from my yggy2. My question is:
> after reading here a bit it seems low gain is preferred so you can go higher up on the volume knob unless you need to drive something extremely hard to drive. But from what I remember reading and from my experience the lyr 3 on high gain sound just a bit better and more engaging. What is the concensus with the mj2 at this point?



I always use my Mjolnir 2 and Lyr 3 on low gain but I can't say I have extensively tested the difference as volume matching between the two to give a proper comparison is a pain in the ass. I just use the setting that gives me the most flexibility in the volume control.


----------



## ThanatosVI

prosnowboarder said:


> Well I'll be getting a used mj2 here shortly and finally making the jump to fully balanced from my yggy2. My question is:
> after reading here a bit it seems low gain is preferred so you can go higher up on the volume knob unless you need to drive something extremely hard to drive. But from what I remember reading and from my experience the lyr 3 on high gain sound just a bit better and more engaging. What is the concensus with the mj2 at this point?


I am really wondering this as well. 
However I can imagine that only few tested it since Level matching is pain and the differences if any will be very small


----------



## gumisb

I think there is no easy answer for that question. It's depends form every piece of equipment and preferences. 
From my experience on balanced input I prefer low gain head soundstage has better dimensions and more detail. 
On high gain is over expanded on sides first impression is wow! but after more listening you feel that something is not right and sound is a lite bit fuzzy.  And  I feel some how opposite with RCA input with same headphones on low gain headstage is smaller more distant. I changed recently RCA cable and get some improvement on low gain with bass but still there is no deep and engagement, which arrive on high gain. Over all Your preference is the answer  

For rough level matching you can use even an app for phone and REW for generating signal.


----------



## prosnowboarder (May 16, 2020)

Well after some heavy listening on my speakers using the mj2 as a preamp and then a short listening session this morning with my auteurs I have come to realize that the high gain is a bit too much in the wrong areas or something like that. Low gain I feel a much fuller presentation. 

Idk  it could just be placebo but I swear I prefer low gain now. Note: I am using balanced input to the mj2 and se output to my receiver powering my speakers. My headphones are balanced the whole way.
Would it be any better to go se in to the mj2 and then to the reciever since the reciever is not balanced? or does the mj2 do this process appropriately?
\
edit:
after a little more listening I think it does sound better going balanced from the ygyy a2 to the mj2 even though I'm using the mj2"s SE preout to my receiver

but as said probably depends upon anyone's preference and setup. Low gain with balanced input from the DAC is mine(for the meantime at least). Also my gold lion tubes are brand new and just started using them so they're not fully broken in yet.

Anyway I like the sound of the gold lions a lot but have only compared to one other pair. Any recommendations?

also
I'm liking using the mj2 as a preamp for my speakers/reciever. I have the bose 901's (i know, don't hate, they were given to me) and a low end marantz receiver to power them. But I really want to get more out of the bose than what the marrantz can do with them. Do you think it would be an upgrade to get a vidar(vs the marantz receiver) with the mj2 as a preamp? looking to later upgrade to better speakers and hoping the mj2 will serve as a good preamp and headphone amp all in one.


----------



## prosnowboarder (May 17, 2020)

Sorry if that was too much at once. Here's a simple one:
If running a 12 ft rca from the preout of the mj2 to a receiver/power amp, would  there be any loss of quality or any extra interference vs an RCA of a foot or less?
In other words how long is too long?


----------



## Monahans67 (May 22, 2020)

Removed


----------



## Smoothstereo

Anyone know what's the latest revision of the Mjolnir 2, or is it still at 1.0 ?


----------



## prosnowboarder (May 27, 2020)

Very strange, I started using the high gain again on the mj2 today and right away noticed a huge channel offset (I think that's what it is called). Or at least for some reason the left channel is extremely higher almost like it is only boosting the left channel. I don't know what's going on here so any explanation would be nice. I'll try some other tubes and see what happens for now.

edit: ok switched the tubes to the schiit tubes and it went back to normal. Does this mean that the tubes that didn't work correctly are not compatible with high gain?


----------



## howzz1854 (Jun 9, 2020)

excuse me for not reading the entire 199 pages of this thread. But i used the search function and couldn't seem to find what i am looking for.

i think i might be in the market for a Mjolnir 2. i say "might" because long story short. after 5 years, my HD800s cable has started falling apart. the rubber above the splitter end started falling off. apparently this is an old Sennheiser problem that they never wanted to fix. (don't get me started). when i found out that the cable replacement is $218 before tax, i nearly fell off the chair. that got me thinking. the headphone came with an XLR balance cable which i never used. my setup consist of Schiit Bifrost (non uber non multibit) to Bottlehead Crack (non speedball). i thought that with the ridiculous amount of money that Sennheiser would love to bend you over with. this money could very well just go to an upgraded amp with balanced output, that way i can just ditch the single ended cable and use the balanced instead.

now. i can't seem to find anyone who have both experienced the Crack and the Mjolnir 2 to compare. it'll be great if that somebody also has the HD800s but i am not holding my breath.

thing is i like the warm and spacious feeling of Crack, and i just don't want and hope that Mjolnir isn't short on soundstage and hope it's not too cold and bright.

can someone shed some light on this? thanks so much in advance.

EDIT: the only thing i was able to find in this thread regarding Crack vs Mjolnir 2 comparison is that the M2 isn't loud enough, but i am not sure if that's just a one-off issue.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I use HD800 balanced on MJ2, and it is a very good pairing. The specific color will have of course more to do with the tubes than the amp itself - MJ2 is the picture of robustness, flexibility, and clarity. Mine is 4+ years old and is good as new. I am getting itchy for the Rag 2, but have no objective reason to buy it. My Amperex orange globes from 1968 sound lovely, but I am at such peace with the pairing that I have stopped hearing Mjolnir and HD800 - I now listen merely to Wagner and Beethoven.


----------



## Armament

So I've had my Mjolnir 2/Gungnir combo for a couple of years now I think. The Mjolnir 2 is a fantastic amp that drives everything I've thrown at it without using high gain. Can anyone confirm that the single ended output isn't gimped in any way compared to the balanced? I haven't heard any sonic differences between balanced/single ended cables on LCD-3, Z1R, and HD800S so I don't think it is. I'd rather not spend money on extra balanced cables if I don't have to. Thank you.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Armament said:


> So I've had my Mjolnir 2/Gungnir combo for a couple of years now I think. The Mjolnir 2 is a fantastic amp that drives everything I've thrown at it without using high gain. Can anyone confirm that the single ended output isn't gimped in any way compared to the balanced? I haven't heard any sonic differences between balanced/single ended cables on LCD-3, Z1R, and HD800S so I don't think it is. I'd rather not spend money on extra balanced cables if I don't have to. Thank you.


It actually loses most of the available power with the single ended output. 
It's limited to 2W instead of the 8W from the balanced out.
Usually you can hear a difference in headphones that scale well with power


----------



## Armament

ThanatosVI said:


> It actually loses most of the available power with the single ended output.
> It's limited to 2W instead of the 8W from the balanced out.
> Usually you can hear a difference in headphones that scale well with power


I appreciate your response. I thought the LCD-3 was relatively power hungry but didn't notice any significant differences other than volume. Maybe I just wasn't listening closely enough.


----------



## ToTo Man (Jun 30, 2020)

Brooklyn70 said:


> Pigtails are messy,   This is the switch box I’m using it’s great it’s passive
> https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Balanced-Converter-Audio-Selector/dp/B07D7P7366


I need an XLR switcher that allows me to use my balanced DAC with three different amplifiers.

I've read positive comments about these two switchers:
https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Audio-Balanced-Converter-Selector/dp/B07QVKPR2V/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Nobsound+1-IN-3-OUT+XLR+Audio+Switch+;+Balanced+Audio+Converter+;+3-Way+Stereo+Passive+Audio+Selector+Switcher+(MC103+Pro+3-Out)&qid=1593517314&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Balanced-Converter-Audio-Selector/dp/B07D7P7366?tag=headfi-20

But so far no comments about this one:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stereo-3...3?hash=item3f70c4a363:g:Z1AAAOSw505dm6~C#rwid

As I have cerebral palsy, the unit with three rocker switches would be easier for me to operate, but I don't know if it will function as I require.  It's advertised as a "3-input / 1-output" device, so I emailed to ask them if it can be used as a "1-input / 3-output" device and this is the response I got:

_"both of 2 are supports
best wishes
Douk Audio"_

I'm assuming this is a yes but just wanted to double check in case I'm missing anything?

Are there differences between this rocker switch unit and the two Nobsound units that would mean one having superior transparency and longevity than the other, in terms of the quality of the components and complexity of the design?

Also, with regards to the switcher with the rockers, I'm assuming it can function as both a switcher and a splitter, depending how the rocker switches are set?  i.e. if all rocker switches are in the 'on' position then the signal will be output to all three amps simultaneously?  Most of the time I'll just be using it as a 1-in / 1-out switching device, so as long as the DAC doesn't "see" the input impedance of the two amplifiers connected to the rocker switches in the 'off' position then the performance of the DAC shouldn't be affected, should it?*

* I currently have my DAC connected to two amps with a basic XLR splitter cable and don't experience any performance issues, unless I introduce an amp that shorts its inputs when it's switched off, which then causes distortion in the other amp and means I can't listen to clean audio unless both amps are turned on.  Hence the importance of the switcher being able to isolate the other amp/s if need be.

EDIT - One final question: With the MC3 (3-input / 3-output unit), what happens when you send an XLR input to the RCA output?  i.e. does the 4Vrms balanced signal remain at 4Vrms or is it halved to 2Vrms?  (I'd hope it would be halved to 2Vrms as most amplifiers single-ended inputs are only rated for 2Vrms).


----------



## movax

I think I have a similar question to the above actually, and was about to just buy more components before stopping to think about it. I recently moved and I _think_ I want 3 setups now in my office as I now live with my girlfriend and can't use my speakers all the time.

1. Florostanding Speakers
2. Listening Chair w/ Headphones
3. Computer Desk w/ Headphones

My components available (i.e., currently owned or planned to purchase)

1. Gungnir Multibit
2. Gungnir Multbit
3. Mjolnir 2
4. NAD M22
5. (When I get it) Freya+, sold my OG Freya, waiting for a good used one. I never really used the tubes and the newer model will actually turn them off when not in use.

I was initially going to get another DAC for my desktop listening setup before I realized I should work through the connections of using one Gumby to run my speakers or the MJ2. (Initially, I had bought two Gumbys because one was at home for speakers, one was at work for headphones). I'll never use the speakers and MJ2 at the same time. Gumby has a single pair of balanced outputs out. I want to get those to either the Freya+ and then the M22, or to the MJ2. 

I could buy an inexpensive manual XLR switcher like the above poster linked and probably be completely fine. That would let me share the Gumby over in a corner of the room and run two outputs. But... the MJ2 can act as a preamp! Theoretically, I could do Gumby -> MJ2 -> M22 and then either listen through my headphones, or listen through the M22 and not have to buy a Freya+. Just to confirm though — I cannot do this without running through the tube stage on the MJ2, right?


----------



## G0rt

Contemplative. ATM:

Gumby=>Mjolnir2 (Brimar CV4033) into HD800S(Misodiko & Draug2)

My endgame. But I know I like Brimar CV1988 in Valhalla2 & Lyr3, so spacious and as relaxed as pina coladas on the beach.

So, wondering if anyone's made adaptors that bring out the filament pins, so that nutballs could power up 6SN7's in the Mjolnir2.

Ham guy, so I can provide DC for filaments at any voltage and reasonable current. 

I could fabricate, but has this already been done?


----------



## monkey5949

Joining the Mjolnir / Gung gang here in short order.....slowly made my way through this thread ....just in case, has anyone replaced the fuse that blows out themselves......?


----------



## roman410

I do not have experience with blow fuse on my Mjolnir, but couple of people reported that on this thread.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I had to send my Mjolnir to Schiit when it just stopped working.  Turned out there was that fuse, and it had blown.  I paid for postage to, they did repair and return at no cost to me other than being without the amp.  I don’t recall any explanation as to why the fuse blew.


----------



## Smoothstereo

Were these fuse blown on recent MJ2 purchases, or on MJ2s that were bought a long while ago with usage?


----------



## roman410

ruthieandjohn said:


> I had to send my Mjolnir to Schiit when it just stopped working.  Turned out there was that fuse, and it had blown.  I paid for postage to, they did repair and return at no cost to me other than being without the amp.  I don’t recall any explanation as to why the fuse blew.


Was your Mjolnir still under manufacture warranty when that happened to you?


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I received it in March 2018, and had sent it in I think March of this year....definitely within its 5 year warranty.  I used it moderately, as I have two other desktop amps as well.


----------



## barbz127

Hi all,

Wondering if anyone has had any positive experiences with using power filtering/DC blockers/etc with the MJ2?

My unit has a nice transformer hum when you turn it in, last for 20 seconds then silent; I've read a few places that a DC blocker should resolve this but curious what others have had success with?

Also regarding the blown fuses is this more common on the 110v models or 240v?

Thankyou


----------



## Gavin C4 (Aug 8, 2020)

One good schiit stack is all you need, and you can spend all your listening time with it and not bother about upgrading anymore.


----------



## KneeDeep

I think I was sold a faulty second hand unit with a blown fuse, anyone know off hand what fuse is supposed to be in the socket? thanks


----------



## monkey5949

Holy hell -> this stack is amazing.
Can change the setup through 

1) Tubes
2) Pads 
3) Cans

Puter -> Gungnir -> Mjolnir +Socket Savers+ 1965 Amperex BUGLE BOY 6DJ8/ECC88  -> Forza -> Verite Opens 

Just so much audio bliss, Building a collection of tubes I may never get to.........


----------



## xtiva

Hi new  Mjolnir 2 owner here...

Just wanted to find out if you find below to be true with your Mjolnir?

This is first tube amp but find that in terms of sound stage it has width but not depth?  What i mean is that all instrument, are in single line in front of me?

only amp I have to compare right now is SPL Phonitor and find Mjolnir seem to have more width but Phonitor seems to have much more depth, can feel instrument are in different distance from me... 

Thanks.


----------



## monkey5949

xtiva said:


> Hi new  Mjolnir 2 owner here...
> 
> Just wanted to find out if you find below to be true with your Mjolnir?
> 
> ...


 There is a bit to understanding what you are hearing.....what is your source, dac, and cans. It could be the Mjolnir is shallower but I haven't had that experience.


----------



## xtiva

Thanks for the reply and shallow is what I was trying to say  new to head-fi world... 

Playing Classical music, encoded in  24bit 192K FLAC file using Raspberry PI running Moode Audio connected via BNC to Holo Audio Spring 2 Level 2 DAC.. and Sennheiser HD800 for headphone...


----------



## Smoothstereo

xtiva said:


> Hi new  Mjolnir 2 owner here...
> 
> Just wanted to find out if you find below to be true with your Mjolnir?
> 
> ...


What tubes are you using in the Mjolnir2 ?


----------



## xtiva

Smoothstereo said:


> What tubes are you using in the Mjolnir2 ?


HI using  Amperex orange globes tube, which looks to be choice of tube for the Mjolnir......


----------



## monkey5949

xtiva said:


> Thanks for the reply and shallow is what I was trying to say  new to head-fi world...
> 
> Playing Classical music, encoded in  24bit 192K FLAC file using Raspberry PI running Moode Audio connected via BNC to Holo Audio Spring 2 Level 2 DAC.. and Sennheiser HD800 for headphone...



Ha no worries....im relatively new here myself.....its just the use of adjectives. Your setup looks to me like a solid chain. I don't have much experience with any of that gear but know a bit of it by reputation.

 A final change that may influence the depth of sound ould be had by changing out the tubes.......part of the beauty of the amp...
rolling tubes for different sound. If you plan on experimenting a bit I recommend a set of socket savers...


----------



## xtiva

monkey5949 said:


> Ha no worries....im relatively new here myself.....its just the use of adjectives. Your setup looks to me like a solid chain. I don't have much experience with any of that gear but know a bit of it by reputation.
> 
> A final change that may influence the depth of sound ould be had by changing out the tubes.......part of the beauty of the amp...
> rolling tubes for different sound. If you plan on experimenting a bit I recommend a set of socket savers...



Oh thanks for the info.. got it as second hand,and it came with socket saver and with Amperex tube... 

would you recommend a tube for depth?

Thanks once again.


----------



## monkey5949

xtiva said:


> Oh thanks for the info.. got it as second hand,and it came with socket saver and with Amperex tube...
> 
> would you recommend a tube for depth?
> 
> Thanks once again.



I don't really have a specific recommendation for a better soundstage but there are a couple threads in Headfi that go through tubes and the sounds they produce give me a moment I'll see if I can figure find....also I have a collection of 6-7 sets of tubes....with the variables I mentioned above, i like the ability to play with sounds.....so far I've messed around with 3-4 pairs of tubes....I found what I liked and stuck with it....however in the midst of changing out a few of my headphones so may have to start all over.....but to me this is part of the fun. Keep that in mind and take any recommendations on here in that context.


----------



## monkey5949

Here you go..... 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-mjolnir2-tube-rolling-thread.839972/

 down the rabbit hole you go....


----------



## xtiva

monkey5949 said:


> Here you go.....
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-mjolnir2-tube-rolling-thread.839972/
> 
> down the rabbit hole you go....


Oh thanks so much go through that


----------



## tjl5709

xtiva said:


> Oh thanks so much go through that



Add this one to make that hole bigger................

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-1558


----------



## xtiva

tjl5709 said:


> Add this one to make that hole bigger................
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-1558


Lol 1558 pages thanks  lots of reading to do hehe


----------



## Wes S

tjl5709 said:


> Add this one to make that hole bigger................
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-1558


That is the ultimate tube rolling thread, and the only I would spend time in, if it were me.


----------



## AudioDoctor

I've searched, and i've read a random bit of pages here and havent seen it talked about... How is the Mjolnir as a pre-amp to say, a Vidar or a pair of Aegirs?


----------



## UntilThen

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Jot is more accurate, mj2 is more euphonic. I wish I had gone rag though, not gonna lie



I had Rag new and sold it. Then I bought Jot and sold it. Not that they are bad but I'm on a journey of amps self discovery. Now I want to get the mj2. Rest of the gear in my signature.


----------



## ThanatosVI

UntilThen said:


> I had Rag new and sold it. Then I bought Jot and sold it. Not that they are bad but I'm on a journey of amps self discovery. Now I want to get the mj2. Rest of the gear in my signature.


Keep aus posted on your impressions. 
Having a Woo Wa 22, Violectric V280 and Questyle CMA Twelve I can't see you keeping the mjolnir2 though.


----------



## UntilThen

ThanatosVI said:


> Keep aus posted on your impressions.
> Having a Woo Wa 22, Violectric V280 and Questyle CMA Twelve I can't see you keeping the mjolnir2 though.



Hahaha I have also Oblivion by Ultrasonic Studio and La Figaro 339. Sold off, Feliks Elise, Euforia, Glenn OTL amp and  ALO Audio Studio Six. As I said, I'm on a journey of self discovery.

I'm really curious how Mjolnir2 compares with those. There's no bias in me and I don't favour any brand. Perhaps I might like the Mjolnir 2 especially with my Yggdrasil.  

4 headphones here to test it with. Just sold off Verite LTD Open.


----------



## UntilThen

On top of that, I might get hold of a mint Auralic Taurus Mk2 which I heard is very good for an old timer. Interesting time ahead.


----------



## UntilThen (Jan 9, 2021)

Alright I have confirmation now that mj2 is coming to me with the owner and he's also bringing his main amp -   SPL Phonitor X . I have just deprive myself of any sleep tonight. 

It's coming with  Amperex orange globes tube and the Schiit Lsst tubes.


----------



## ThanatosVI

UntilThen said:


> Alright I have confirmation now that mj2 is coming to me with the owner and he's also bringing his main amp -   SPL Phonitor X . I have just deprive myself of any sleep tonight.
> 
> It's coming with  Amperex orange globes tube and the Schiit Lsst tubes.


Please share your listening impressions afterwards. 

Curious about the no longer sold LSST tubes


----------



## UntilThen

ThanatosVI said:


> Curious about the no longer sold LSST tubes



Wonder why they stop selling that. I thought it would be good option to have solid state and tubes in the mj2.


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## tjl5709

UntilThen said:


> Wonder why they stop selling that. I thought it would be good option to have solid state and tubes in the mj2.


Apparently, they were difficult to mfg from what I remember seeing posted.


----------



## UntilThen

SPL Phonitor X and Schiit Mjolnir 2 arrived yesterday to join the amps I have here in Sydney - Woo Audio Wa22, Violectric v280, Questyle CMA Twelve and SMSL SP200. 

With my 3 headphones I sat and listen with my friend who brought those 2 amps. The headphones are Hekse, LCD-X and HD800.

I'm still processing my thoughts. Won't be a while before I make a judgement. Suffice to say I like the mj2 so much that I was willing to trade my La Figaro 339 plus a little cash for it. It was heart breaking to part with my mint Figaro but I figure I can always get the new version with preamp - LF339i from ShenZhenAudio.

So here are my summary thoughts of each amps:-
(I'm using the ak4490 dac chip in the Questyle CMA 12 because my Yggdrasil is in Canberra.)

SLP Phonitor X - very transparent, very clear but never jarring. Lets you hear the music as it's intended. Lets you sample your headphones as per their sonic signatures. 

Questyle CMA Twelve - neutral / slightly warm. An all in one convenient package with an agreeable tone. DAC is not too shabby too but no where near my Yggdrasil and I love my Yggy.  

Schiit Mjolnir 2 - similar to the CMA but smoother and more palatable. Powerful in balance mode and I really dig this amp despite many good tube amps I've owned - you can see that in my profile. Mjolnir 2 is not even a pure tube amp. More like a hybrid but it's a lovely sound signature. Not too loose not too tight. 

Violectric v280 - Kind of the opposite spectrum of the Phonitor X. v280 feels like the Wa22 but with faster transients, tighter and leaner tones and fist tight punch to the bass region. Top end seems less than the Phonitor X that's for sure but it's not lacking. My son loves the v280 !

Woo Audio Wa22 - More laid back, more relax, more bloom, slower, more upfront vocals than the v280. That's no surprise. I do like the Wa22 although it's starting to show it's age and this is version 1. I have good tubes on it though. Power tubes are either Tung Sol 5998 or GEC 6080 or Bendix 6080wb, Mullard GZ32 or Cossor 53ku rectifiers and Ken Rad 6sn7gt drivers or Tung Sol 6J8G bgrp with adapters.

SMSL SP200 - On first listen, I was quite impressed that a $260 2nd hand mint condition amp can produce such energy. It soon became too jarring for me in longer listening session. It will be drop from this comparion.

From this comparison, a few thoughts from me and this is strictly subjective from my hearing, my preference and my music and associated headphones and gear.

I'm down to 3 amps that I short listed. Wa22, v280 and Mjolnir 2. Phonitor X I'm not so sure. It was not my intention to include that in the comparison because that is my friend's amp and I have no intention of buying it.

I've not finish my audition obviously. That will take a week at least but if anything to go by, the Mjolnir 2 has my attention to buy it. I'm happy that my Yggdrasil has finally found a pairing amp after I sold off Ragnarok in 2018. Fancy having discovered Mjolnir 2 at this late stage of my amps journey. It's not too late !

Another friend has a pair of Siemens E88CC halo getter gold pins to sell me cheap and I will buy it for mj2.  

Oh sadly there are no LSST tubes that came with it but I have 3 x socket savers - very nice ones.


----------



## xtiva

Nice write up as usual 

Thanks letting me try your gears 

below is my rank from the test; 

WA22 (with those expensive and sexy tube) >>> Phonitor X (yes i am biased) >> MJ2 > Violectric V280 > CMA12


----------



## UntilThen

Hey @xtiva thanks for popping by to share your thoughts here and thanks for bringing the 2 amps. 

It's interesting - your choice. I mean I like the Wa22 but maybe I've listen too much to tube amps already so a change to solid state and hybrids is like a breath of fresh air. 

Phonitor X is very good in my opinion but my next amp whether tube or solid state will be carefully considered. Perhaps just one more and I'll do some culling of my present amps and keep one tube and one solid state amp but that will be too hard !

Strange day today. My son loves the v280 with Hekse so much that he borrow the v280 home. I'm still thoroughly enjoying myself with the Mjolnir 2. I am very impressed that there is no noise with no music playing and I turn the volume knob to max. That is good.

Of course Mjolnir 2 with Amperex Orange globes sounds really good.


----------



## xtiva

My journey into desktop setup only started after lock down and WFH this year..... been a DAP and IEM person.. 3 month ago my setup consisted of SMSL SU-8 & SH-8 stack that costed me less than $600..... so my knowledge on audio gear is very shallow...

Experience for me was exact opposite to you...

WA22 was my first time ever to audition full Tube amp, been avoiding as much as I can ...in case I love it..... WA22 was phenomenal amplifier, the separation, sound stage just amazed so much.. it was what I was exactly looking for!!!!

I look for detail, separation and sound stage when choosing a amp and WA22 just exceeded on all 3 trait plus warmth/mellowness at same time which have never been able to find in SS amp.....


----------



## UntilThen

You just make my Wa22 appreciate in value.   However as I pointed out to you my pair of Tung Sol 5998 was bought 4 years ago from Vietnam and it arrived as a brand new pair for US$238. Today if you buy a NOS matched pair of 5998 from Woo Audio, that will cost you US$800.  You can buy cheaper from ebay but show me a pair that's newer than mine and dead silent as mine. I hope this pair last forever.

In any case, when you get my La Figaro 339, let me know what you think about that compared with the Wa22. Just as an aside, I prefer the LF339 over the Wa22. Strange isn't it? LF 339 is like a raw diamond, with power galore and a bass weight that puts the Sumo wrestlers to shame. Top end clarity and sparkle too. 

Anyhoo, right now I'm really enjoying the Schiit Mjolnir 2 and I believe the new toy syndrome has disappeared. It's a good mix of slight tube warm with faster transients than the Wa22, tighter with some bite and energy. Listening on the LCD-X and He1000se, it's a joy. With the HD800, it's amazing. There's rhythm, there's sparkle and there's some warmth. Very well done. I can only imagine it stacking on top of Yggdrasil like my previous Ragnarok. It will be beautiful.


----------



## UntilThen

xtiva said:


> WA22 was my first time ever to audition full Tube amp, been avoiding as much as I can ...in case I love it..... WA22 was phenomenal amplifier, the separation, sound stage just amazed so much.. it was what I was exactly looking for!!!!



After a day of not listening to Wa22 but strictly on Mjolnir 2, I went back to Wa22 again. Headphones are Hekse and LCD-X. Immediately what greeted my ears is liquid gold, mellow smoothness, organic tone and lovely 3D effects. Great details and clarity still. I can see why you're so enamoured with the Wa22. I love it too. Ken Rad and Tung Sol with Mullard are doing their magic.

I'm still liking both the Wa22 and Mjolnir2 presentations. Great contrast here. 

I've heard better tube amps imo, with the likes of Glenn OTL and the Studio Six but Wa22 with good tubes can hold it's own. It's hard not to love a classic tube amp, whether they be OTL or transformer coupled. However hybrid such as the Mjolnir 2 has it's distinctive flavour and I find it enjoyable too. The slam effect of the mj2 is really nice. I call it the slam dunks of Michael Jordan 2. There's impact.


----------



## Smoothstereo

To my ears and gear, the MJ2 sounds more like a SS amp than a tube amp. A very refine and powerful sounding SS amp thats very clean and clear. I wish it was a bit more tubey sounding. With the right tubes, it can offer some of those tube traits, but I just wished for more.


----------



## UntilThen

Then you need a proper tube amp if that's what you wish for.


----------



## UntilThen

A week has passed and I'm still enjoying mj2 despite all the other amps here. cma 12 sounds good too but somehow I'm using it as a dac and listening to mj2 instead. Didn't touch wa22 much all this time but when I do, it's still nice. v280 my son borrowed it and I'm ok with that because I'm still listening to mj2 and I must say I love it.  

cma-12 is on sale now. Replacing my LF339 with a nearly new LF339i and also a Gustard A22 is coming out of the blue. There's plan to cull some of the amps and get a very nice solid state or tube amp. Local head-fi shop owner is enticing me with Formula S + Powerman + Abyss ab 1266 phi TC. There's also Benchmark HPA4. A Niimbus US 4 is also on the cards. Still lusting for a DNA Stratus. So many choices. 

However mj2 is staying. Yeah I like it enough tonally to keep it. In fact, it's very agreeable with my He1000se. I no longer use the socket saver because it introduce some hum on the right socket. Removing the socket saver gets rid of the noise completely. Love this amp but it does get hot after several hours.


----------



## UntilThen

Not possible this thread has gone cold. I've been listening to music with Hekse and mj2 the whole week. Did not even touch the other amps. Not even Wa22. 

Love the tonality of mj2. It's hitting hard and sound fast. 

https://tidal.com/browse/track/19265767 sounds really good.


----------



## tjl5709

UntilThen said:


> Not possible this thread has gone cold. I've been listening to music with Hekse and mj2 the whole week. Did not even touch the other amps. Not even Wa22.
> 
> Love the tonality of mj2. It's hitting hard and sound fast.
> 
> https://tidal.com/browse/track/19265767 sounds really good.


I don't know about going cold, but what I will say, is it makes me happy to see another happy camper in the MJ2 camp. I don't see allot of people bailing on this amp. Once you get it, and put some tubes that tweek the sound to your preference, I see no reason to leave. Are there better? I would assume so. But matched to my yggy, with my Ether C Flows or HD800's, I really cannot see it getting better for these old ears of mine. Others are always hunting and that is OK, but it is a fine amp. I'm done.........for now.......cheers.


----------



## UntilThen

At the shop collecting my LCD-3f and listening to Susvara.

Can’t wait to go home to LCD3 with mj2.


----------



## UntilThen

Back home with my renewed LCD-3f. Listening to my 3 headphones of He1000se, LCD-3f and LCD-X with Mjolnir 2. It is very good. So love it but this is after I spend 2 hours at the shop with my end game system.  

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/1101-audio-custom-crafted-headphone-amps.919425/post-16109211


----------



## UntilThen

Back with a little update. Have been using Questyle CMA Twelve and Schiit Mjolnir Twelve for a longer time. Using dac out from CMA 12 into mj2 or CMA 12 by itself. Slightly leaning towards CMA 12. It's just sweeter and tighter. Both has that touch of tube tone. mj2 uses Amperex Orange globes.

Despite leaning towards CMA 12 slightly, I am still very impressed with mj2. It's a force to be reckoned with and it's using it in a controlled way. It's very well constructed. Not a hint of hiss or hum. Volume to the max with no music playing and there's no noise at all. Very impressive. Have just roll in Voskhod 6n23p '73 and and pleasantly surprised but the change in tone. It's different from the Amperex. Not better but different. Still getting a feel for how different tubes alter the sound. Will be getting a pair of Siemens E88CC soon.

mj2 is a keeper that's for sure. Can't wait to pair it with my Yggdrasil.


----------



## Randolf711

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Indeed. I want my long long long long
> 
> long
> 
> long awaited HD800/K1000 review to be done with replicable parts (I lie only a little — MJ2 is amp for HD800 and preamp for Portal Panache, which powers K1000). Wagner inspects the Schiit Stack with a look of characteristic severity.


I’m reading this thread and this post is so long ago but I have to know if this is your Art! Either way, I love it and thanks for sharing 2 years ago.


----------



## UntilThen

MJ2 in operation is very hot. I'm surprised the dac is stack on top. Unless that is for photoshoot.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

It was painted by Cal Pedranti in 1992. He was an old queen who lived in the Castro and other neighborhoods until his death c. 2002.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Just thought I'd chime in with some tube recommendations. I've tried well over 250 different tubes (types/variants/brands) in the mj2 over the last 3 plus years, and bar a few exceptions, 12AT7/ECC81 and 12AU7/ECC82 (and some equivalents) are by far the best I've heard in it. 

They do require 6922 to 12AT7 adapters.

Which ones to go for will depend on preferred sound signature, but in general, they tend to have a bigger and deeper soundstage, definition, and holographics.

My prefered sound signature is relatively balanced, not too warm for the most part, leaning on a very slight V curve, though there are some with a warmer bottom end that do also sound very nice when the mood/music suits.

In relation to my preferred signature, my favorites are:

Valvo 6201 (pinched waist double mica, and pinched waist triple mica) non pinched waist Valvo 6201 from early to mid 60s aren't as good, but still pretty decent 
GEC A2900
Mullard 6201 (generally a lot cheaper than the above, which have got considerably more expensive over the past 2 years), warmer than the above tubes, but otherwise similar.
Telefunken 12AU7 (smooth plates sound a little better than ribbed, but both are very good)
Telefunken ECC801s - very neutral, can sound a bit thinner than others, especially if you're used to warm tubes, but incredible definition.
RCA 12AU7 (side getter, clear top) - very cheap (around $25 to $30 a pair), quite warm, with a very 'tube' sounding richness in harmonics
Telefunken 6211 (gold pin) - lighter on the bottom end, but a very mice lift around 10khz, which sound incredible with airy vocals or bowed strings
Telefunken ECC81 - late 50s/early 60s 45 degree angled getter
Tung-Sol 5814A - Good all rounder at a decent price
RCA 12AT7 - black plates, D-getter
Philips/Valvo ECC81 - Late 50s to early 60s (Heerlen factory code) 
But there are several others that are also decent. My absolute favorites, and ones that rarely leave my mj2 are the triple mica Valvo 6201. 

Another favorite by a lot of people from the Lyr rolling thread (many of which actually have an MJ2), is a late 50s 7316, usually Amperex or Philips branded (Heerlen factory codes). I haven't actually tried them so can't comment, but a few people who's ears I trust swear by them.

There are also other 12A*7 variants that are good, but be careful with trying them, as not all of them are within the 415ma heater current limit of the MJ2. Here's a short list of ones that do and don't work if you're keen on experimenting with cheap finds on ebay, but it's far from definitive:

Yes:
12at7 - 300ma
12au7 - 300ma
12AX7/ECC83 - 300ma
6201 - 300ma
7062/E180CC - 400ma
7025 - 300ma
7728 - 300ma
7729 - 300ma
6681 - 300ma
5751 - 350ma
6211- 300ma
6679  - 300ma

NO:
12az7 - 450ma
12ad7 - 450ma
6965 - 450ma
6414 - 450ma
6829 - 450ma

There's a good reference to the different 12AT7 types here: http://www.audiotubes.com/12at7.htm


----------



## UntilThen

Excellent mate. Just what I needed without having to read through 2 very long threads. 

These ones you've just described, aside from 12AT7/ECC81 and 12AU7/ECC82 that requires the 6922 to 12AT7 adapters, do the others need adapters and if so what are they.

Thanks.


----------



## UntilThen

@AuditoryCanvas  one more question. How would you rate Siemens E88CC halo getter to the ones you describe above? I'm asking because I'll most probably be getting a nice pair for a moderate price.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

UntilThen said:


> Excellent mate. Just what I needed without having to read through 2 very long threads.
> 
> These ones you've just described, aside from 12AT7/ECC81 and 12AU7/ECC82 that requires the 6922 to 12AT7 adapters, do the others need adapters and if so what are they.
> 
> Thanks.



Everything in my favorites list, and the Yes list all require the same 12AX7 to 6922 adapter:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-Conver...799770?hash=item361d0fa9da:g:OYsAAOSwIbdZbwO0


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jan 22, 2021)

UntilThen said:


> @AuditoryCanvas  one more question. How would you rate Siemens E88CC halo getter to the ones you describe above? I'm asking because I'll most probably be getting a nice pair for a moderate price.



Those are some of the better 6922 types, though quite neutral in character. I'd say they were  close to some of the 12AT7 variants like the Telefunken ECC81.

Try and get early to mid 60s Siemens E88CC with grey plates rather than silver plates (rectangle plate attached to the mica just under the getter platform), and try and get the single getter post ones rather than A-frame.

Give me a shout if you need help deciphering the date stamps/codes. Some of the 60s Siemens have etched codes, some have a stamped silver plate on the getter platform.
Good reference here for deciphering them here too: https://frank.pocnet.net/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB.pdf - it says Philips codes, but covers most other European tubes  too. Philips branded tubes as Valvo, SQ, miniwatt, and many others, and you'll often find brands making tubes for other brands - it's not uncommon to find Siemens tubes branded as Telefunken sometimes for example (you can tell because they won't have the Telefunken diamond on the bottom). you can usually tell the actual manufacture by the date code and/or construction.

The main thing with the 12A*7 types and variants, aside form some of the more expensive ones, is that they're typically more readily available, for a better price than the 6922 types they compete with. Unfortunately ones like the Valvo 6201s have jumped significantly in price compared to a few years ago - the triple mica pinched waist ones used to go for around $350 or less a pair, and now they're going to $800 plus. Similar to how the 6922 types kept going up in price, and rarity, and began getting more exploited in price on ebay. Fortunately, a lot of the 12A*7 types/variants haven't met the same fate yet. So in short, you'll generally get a much better quality tube, for less than you'd pay for a decent 6922 type, with a few exceptions as always.


----------



## UntilThen

Prices of tubes goes up like crazy. I have amps that uses 6sn7 and 6as7/6080 and I have the better ones. Prices are crazy now.

I have Amperex Orange Globes and right now I have Voskhod 6n23p '73 in mj2 and I thought it sounded marvellous. I don't really want to spend too much on these tubes because I've in mind an additional different kind of amp in the ampandsound Mogwai Se and that uses KT88, KT77 and EL34. Rolling these big tubes is going to cost a lot more. 

However I think I will have 10 pair of nice tubes for mj2, all different flavours preferably and that would be it.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jan 20, 2021)

UntilThen said:


> Prices of tubes goes up like crazy. I have amps that uses 6sn7 and 6as7/6080 and I have the better ones. Prices are crazy now.
> 
> I have Amperex Orange Globes and right now I have Voskhod 6n23p '73 in mj2 and I thought it sounded marvellous. I don't really want to spend too much on these tubes because I've in mind an additional different kind of amp in the ampandsound Mogwai Se and that uses KT88, KT77 and EL34. Rolling these big tubes is going to cost a lot more.
> 
> However I think I will have 10 pair of nice tubes for mj2, all different flavours preferably and that would be it.



If you want to try them without breaking the bank, and you like the mj2 with the Voskhods, you could try any of the following, you should be able to grab a pair of one of the following for a lot less than $100 in most cases, though some might be closer to $100.

What country are you based?

Mullard 6201  - Upscale audio currently has them at $45 per tube, which for their prices is actually bloody good.

RCA 12AU7 (side getter, clear top) - very cheap (around $25 to $30 a pair), definitely worth grabbing a pair of these at that price, but I wouldn't want them to be your only impression of these tube types, they're a bit more rolled off on the top, and warmer on the bottom end. Good for some music types, and work well for some recordings, but not good for daily drivers unless you like that signature (based on you liking the Voskhods, I'd say no)

Telefunken ECC81 - late 50s/early 60s 45 degree angled getter

Tung-Sol 5814A - Good all rounder at a decent price

RCA 12AT7 - black plates, D-getter

Philips/Valvo ECC81 - Late 50s to early 60s (Heerlen factory code)


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks for short listing those few tubes. I'll look out for those. I'm from Sydney Australia.


----------



## Randolf711

So I received my B-stock Mjolnir 2 from Schiit today, literally an hour ago. I am listening with the stock tubes, SE Inputs, SE output to HD 650's. I already ordered upgraded tubes and will be ordering the 800S for my eventual set up. The B-stock had no blemishes I could find so it must have been a return.

I am coming from the Asgard 2, so please take my impressions with a grain of salt. I am by NO means a headphone/amp expert, nor have I listened to many types or styles. I did buy the Schiit Magnius (returned it because Asgard was better still for me) and have extensively listened to the THX's head amps. 

So far, cold and right out of the box, the amp is doing everything right and is a lot of fun to listen to. I am going mac mini->Yggy -> MJ2

I have been reading this forum for the past week, half way done so far, and many have said the SE side is fine. I think if the balanced output is that much better, I am going to be beyond thrilled. The 650's were always muddy, and as a lover of orchestral music, they were less than ideal for me. Right away the 650's sound completely different. The attack of notes and the high frequencies are popping through (in a good way). It has a lot of strength and handles complex, layered, chordal passages very well. Details are coming through that were missing before. 

If my plan was to only upgrade my amp and not the headphones, the Mjolnir is already worth it. The SE side of the amp is very well implemented and is a worthy upgrade. Now I get to play with tubes and upgrade my cans. 

What I'm listening to...

Ludwig Streicher "Encores"
Lorraine Hunt Lieberson "Bach Cantata's"
Miles "Sketches of Spain"
Adrienne Lenker's "Songs"
War on Drugs "Lost in the Dream"
Sonny Rollins 'the Bridge"
Nat King Cole "After Midnight"
Joni Mitchell "Mingus"
LA Philharmonic "Ives: Complete Symphonies"


----------



## UntilThen

Glad you like the MJ2. I had Ragnarok 3 years ago with Yggdrasil but I sold off Rag because I was chasing tube amps, OTLs and transformer coupled. 

I'm really enjoying mj2 now fed in balance mode from my Questyle CMA 12 AK4490 dac chips and listening with He1000se in balance mode. Balance is the way to go in MJ2. I tried SE but balance is way more forceful and energised. Similarly with CMA 12 - balance out perform SE on that all in one by a lot.

My Yggdrasil is in my work accomodation which I'll get to in a week's time. Can't wait to pair Yggdrasil with MJ2 in balanced mode. LCD-3f and LCD-X sounded great with MJ2.

This morning I listen to 2L Audiophile Reference Recordings - The Nordic Sound on Tidal HiFi. I don't usually listen to classical but I'm enjoying it now because the soft passages are still clear and when the orchestra goes in full swing, that's when mj2 shows what it can do. 

Songs:-
https://tidal.com/browse/track/2400333 - violins are crystal clear. Haydn never sounded better.
https://tidal.com/browse/track/2400323 - Gregorian chants sound mythical.
https://tidal.com/browse/track/119744810 - Prokofiev Alexander Nevsky Battle on Ice - yes yes yes

Now for a faster tempo...
https://tidal.com/browse/track/8439075 - Jennifer Warnes 'First We Take Manhattan' now my toes are tapping.
https://tidal.com/browse/track/8439076 - Bird On a Wire - hmmmm nice.

Did you say War On Drugs? My fav !
https://tidal.com/browse/track/77481941 - Pain. Now I'm in pain ecstasy.
https://tidal.com/browse/track/77481942 - Holding On - indeed I am literally by the seat of my pants !

Finally otherwise it's too many....  
https://tidal.com/browse/track/55391453 - 'Mother' by Pink Floyd. David Gilmore & Rogers Waters never sounded better.


----------



## Smoothstereo (Jan 23, 2021)

Do you guys hear a difference in presentation style when comparing the SE out to the BAL 4pin xlr out on MJ2? To me the BAL out seems to have a zoomed out presentation, where the vocals are pushed a bit back , like you are hearing from a farther distance. Whereas the SE out seems a bit more upfront so vocals are more present. This is using the stock tubes with the same headphone. I level matched the volume on both outputs to eliminate that factor.

Just curious if others hear the same effect.


----------



## UntilThen

Will get to that later today. Presently switch to Woo Audio Wa22 and loving the tube goodness.


----------



## Randolf711

UntilThen said:


> Glad you like the MJ2. I had Ragnarok 3 years ago with Yggdrasil but I sold off Rag because I was chasing tube amps, OTLs and transformer coupled.
> 
> I'm really enjoying mj2 now fed in balance mode from my Questyle CMA 12 AK4490 dac chips and listening with He1000se in balance mode. Balance is the way to go in MJ2. I tried SE but balance is way more forceful and energised. Similarly with CMA 12 - balance out perform SE on that all in one by a lot.
> 
> ...



I ALWAYS listen to that Warnes album, one of my very favorites.

The only thing frustrating with having the Yggy, Freya, and MJ2, is the inability to use balanced in for both the Freya and Mj2. Otherwise, this amp is wonderful!!
​


----------



## Randolf711

Smoothstereo said:


> Do you guys hear a difference in presentation style when comparing the SE out to the BAL 4pin xlr out on MJ2? To me the BAL out seems to have a zoomed out presentation, where the vocals are pushed a bit back , like you are hearing from a farther distance. Whereas the SE out seems a bit more upfront so vocals are more present. This is using the stock tubes with the same headphone. I level matched the volume on both outputs to eliminate that factor.
> 
> Just curious if others hear the same effect.


That’s an interesting note. I will let you know next week!


----------



## UntilThen

Randolf711 said:


> I ALWAYS listen to that Warnes album, one of my very favorites.
> 
> The only thing frustrating with having the Yggy, Freya, and MJ2, is the inability to use balanced in for both the Freya and Mj2. Otherwise, this amp is wonderful!!
> ​



Why can't you go balance from Yggdrasil > Freya + > Mjolnir 2 ?  Not that I need Freya + in my system otherwise would have got it. Freya with Ragnarok would have been good to add some tube tone.


----------



## Licht

Smoothstereo said:


> Do you guys hear a difference in presentation style when comparing the SE out to the BAL 4pin xlr out on MJ2? To me the BAL out seems to have a zoomed out presentation, where the vocals are pushed a bit back , like you are hearing from a farther distance. Whereas the SE out seems a bit more upfront so vocals are more present. This is using the stock tubes with the same headphone. I level matched the volume on both outputs to eliminate that factor.
> 
> Just curious if others hear the same effect.



Yes I agree.
SE sound more stronger center to me, while BAL better separation and holographic sound, and way better defined bass.
If you prefer more in-your-face vocal presentation, SE might be better. I prefer the better separation and controlled bass so only using XLR if possible.
Only rough comparison on Mjolnir2 without volume matching though. (compared again with Ether2, HD650, HE560)

If you are using adaptors (XLR to SE or 3.5mm to 6.3mm), presentation changes by adaptor too and can adjust the sound a little bit (or you might think a lot) by them, but general impression of SE vs BAL exist to me.


----------



## tjl5709

Randolf711 said:


> So I received my B-stock Mjolnir 2 from Schiit today, literally an hour ago. I am listening with the stock tubes, SE Inputs, SE output to HD 650's. I already ordered upgraded tubes and will be ordering the 800S for my eventual set up. The B-stock had no blemishes I could find so it must have been a return.
> 
> I am coming from the Asgard 2, so please take my impressions with a grain of salt. I am by NO means a headphone/amp expert, nor have I listened to many types or styles. I did buy the Schiit Magnius (returned it because Asgard was better still for me) and have extensively listened to the THX's head amps.
> 
> ...




I am not seeing it in any of your posts, or the replies so I'll chime in. The MJ2 SE has less power out than balanced. The 650's will be completely changed if you feed everything balanced. Just saying.

My comment is based on the following gear history..........

I moved from bifrost/lyr (HD650/Maddogs) to gungnir/mj2  (HD650 > HD800s, Maddogs> Ether C) then to yggy/mj2 (HD800s , Ether C Flow).

I did a lot of tube searching (acquiring) during the early lyr days, so all those lyr tubes carried over. You want to make the effort to replace the OE's. Trust me on that. 

I'm pretty much done on the gear other than wanting to do an upgrade to yggy. Waiting to see if they come out with analog 3.


----------



## UntilThen

UntilThen said:


> I tried SE but balance is way more forceful and energised.



That’s what I said. It’s definitely more powerful in balance mode.


----------



## Randolf711

UntilThen said:


> Why can't you go balance from Yggdrasil > Freya + > Mjolnir 2 ?  Not that I need Freya + in my system otherwise would have got it. Freya with Ragnarok would have been good to add some tube tone.


I considered that but I didn’t know how it may alter the sound heading to my Vidar’s. I guess I could just try it, can’t hurt. In theory, I could also go to the MJ2 then the Freya. I was just planning to use SE input but the balanced out to headphones with hd800s.


----------



## gc335

I'm thinking about picking up a Mj2 to "replace" my Mj1.  Can someone compare the two? Worth the upgrade?


----------



## UntilThen

I can't compare but even as I love the Mjolnir 2, I'm thinking of selling it because I've 3 other tube amps which I like more and that's not fair on the MJ2 because it has power and great slam. I am torn between keeping it and letting it go...... plus being a great preamp.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I personally feel that it's worth the upgrade. The tube stage really takes it to a new level. Especially with some nice NOS tubes. 
Plus you have a High and Low gain switch now making it more flexible. 


gc335 said:


> I'm thinking about picking up a Mj2 to "replace" my Mj1.  Can someone compare the two? Worth the upgrade?


----------



## gc335

Guidostrunk said:


> I personally feel that it's worth the upgrade. The tube stage really takes it to a new level. Especially with some nice NOS tubes.
> Plus you have a High and Low gain switch now making it more flexible.


Thanks!  I already have some upgraded tubes from my Echo so I can try those.


----------



## UntilThen

Guidostrunk said:


> I personally feel that it's worth the upgrade. The tube stage really takes it to a new level. Especially with some nice NOS tubes.
> Plus you have a High and Low gain switch now making it more flexible.



Oh yes can't agree more. The tubes are what makes me love the MJ2. Powerful, slam and a nice tube tone input. Not as much 2nd harmonic distortions for a lovely tube tone like a true tube amp but the MJ2 is in a class of it's own with it's tightness and slam as a hybrid.


----------



## gc335

UntilThen said:


> Oh yes can't agree more. The tubes are what makes me love the MJ2. Powerful, slam and a nice tube tone input. Not as much 2nd harmonic distortions for a lovely tube tone like a true tube amp but the MJ2 is in a class of it's own with it's tightness and slam as a hybrid.


Mj2 order is in.  Thanks for your input!  I'll post this impressions when I receive it.


----------



## Randolf711

I never heard the Mjolnir but the MJ2 is awesome. It made my headphones sound completely different. I just ordered some Hifiman Arya's to try with it next! Hoping that will be a fun pairing! The HD800s sound killer with it as well.


----------



## UntilThen

Arya and HD800S sounds good with Mjolnir 2. I've sampled that. So are the Audeze(s) and ZMF(s).


----------



## UntilThen

I'm changing my mind. Going to keep the MJ2. Just had a listen now with Bifrost 2 and He1000se and it's GOOD.


----------



## Randolf711

UntilThen said:


> I'm changing my mind. Going to keep the MJ2. Just had a listen now with Bifrost 2 and He1000se and it's GOOD.


The Hifimans with the wood are the only ones that I found very enjoyable to look at. Being a fan of design and art, I really wanted something that was pretty. But being a musician, I also wanted it to sound good! If I dig the Arya's, that will be my next step. I LOVE how they look.


----------



## UntilThen

Randolf711 said:


> The Hifimans with the wood are the only ones that I found very enjoyable to look at. Being a fan of design and art, I really wanted something that was pretty. But being a musician, I also wanted it to sound good! If I dig the Arya's, that will be my next step. I LOVE how they look.



I've borrowed my son's Arya and did a thorough comparison with my He1000se. He listen as well. We both agree that the He1000se is much better in resolution, control and precision. Bass is tighter and high notes has much more details. YMMV. I know Joshua Valour the reviewer prefers the cheaper Arya and that's ok.  Some just prefer a more relax tone. FWIW I am of the opinion that the Arya is a great sounding headphone, especially with MJ2. You could have stop there and be very happy.

These 2 are my current favourite headphones with MJ2 and the rest of my amps, with the LCD-X a close 3rd. But I really want a LCD4 to replace the 3 and X.


----------



## Randolf711

UntilThen said:


> I've borrowed my son's Arya and did a thorough comparison with my He1000se. He listen as well. We both agree that the He1000se is much better in resolution, control and precision. Bass is tighter and high notes has much more details. YMMV. I know Joshua Valour the reviewer prefers the cheaper Arya and that's ok.  Some just prefer a more relax tone. FWIW I am of the opinion that the Arya is a great sounding headphone, especially with MJ2. You could have stop there and be very happy.
> 
> These 2 are my current favourite headphones with MJ2 and the rest of my amps, with the LCD-X a close 3rd. But I really want a LCD4 to replace the 3 and X.


I think you have exactly where I am heading. I want one pair of closed back and I think the Audeze is where I'm going to land when the time comes. One day I will definitely take those 1000se's for a test drive! Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well , I'm going to see if I can revitalize this thread in the near future. Give some others who own an MJ2 something to think about. I'll be sending mine out to @ksorota probably at the end of this week to have it modded with some Elna Silmic ii caps. 
We had a journey last summer with modding the Liquid Platinum and it paid huge dividends for that amp. Really took it to a new level of performance. 
I'm going to play guinea pig once again with the MJ2. Lol. 
I'll report back to this thread with my findings after the mod.


----------



## spacelion2077

Any chance of a Mjolnir 3 coming out soon? The current model is released 5 years ago.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'd be curious to see if they follow the Lyr 3 route and use 6sn7 tubes.


----------



## spacelion2077

There is no point of of getting Mjolnir 2 now considering Jotunheim and A90 offers similar performance with half of the price. Really hope Schiit can release a new model this year


----------



## Guidostrunk

Just picked one up a 3 weeks ago for $555 shipped.


----------



## spacelion2077

Guidostrunk said:


> Just picked one up a 3 weeks ago for $555 shipped.



That's a good deal, hopefully schiit will release a new model this year. Jotunheim 2 which only costs 400 had similar performance to mjolnir 2


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

spacelion2077 said:


> Any chance of a Mjolnir 3 coming out soon? The current model is released 5 years ago.



That is what I am expecting this year. I suspect it is going to get the Nexus/Continuity treatment like Jotunheim did late last year.


----------



## Randolf711

KamijoIsMyHero said:


> That is what I am expecting this year. I suspect it is going to get the Nexus/Continuity treatment like Jotunheim did late last year.


Schiit has said they don’t anticipate a new Mjolnir. I guess the MJ2 hasn’t sold like hot cakes either. I love mine and I am so glad I skipped the Jot2 for it!


----------



## Guidostrunk

I should be getting mine back in about a week or so from getting cap modded. Hoping the results are just as prominent as the Gilmore lite mk2 and Liquid Platinum. 
Will update this thread when I get it back.


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

Randolf711 said:


> Schiit has said they don’t anticipate a new Mjolnir. I guess the MJ2 hasn’t sold like hot cakes either. I love mine and I am so glad I skipped the Jot2 for it!



Yea, read about that too. I also a saw an interview where an interviewer asked when Jot 2 is gonna happen and Jason responded that it might happen. 1 month later Jot 2 got announced lol.


----------



## evanescent

KamijoIsMyHero said:


> That is what I am expecting this year. I suspect it is going to get the Nexus/Continuity treatment like Jotunheim did late last year.


Is the MJ Crossfet topology potentially compatible with these? I wouldn't have thought so for Nexus.


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

evanescent said:


> Is the MJ Crossfet topology potentially compatible with these? I wouldn't have thought so for Nexus.



I not too familiar with topology compatibilty. I won't doubt Jason could make it happen though.


----------



## evanescent

KamijoIsMyHero said:


> I not too familiar with topology compatibilty. I won't doubt Jason could make it happen though.


If what you're after is the buzzwords, sure!  But those two specific buzzwords are about fixing problems that occur in the cheaper amps, but may not be relevant to the MJ2. Nexus is about integrating single ended and balanced capabilities, but MJ2 is 'inherently balanced'. Continuity is about the change from class A to class AB, but it may be that MJ2 never leaves class A anyway...

I'd like to see a MJ2+ with some of the Freya features added to what is already a great design.


----------



## Rowethren

evanescent said:


> If what you're after is the buzzwords, sure!  But those two specific buzzwords are about fixing problems that occur in the cheaper amps, but may not be relevant to the MJ2. Nexus is about integrating single ended and balanced capabilities, but MJ2 is 'inherently balanced'. Continuity is about the change from class A to class AB, but it may be that MJ2 never leaves class A anyway...
> 
> I'd like to see a MJ2+ with some of the Freya features added to what is already a great design.



That would be perfect! Mjolnir 3 with a stepped attenuator and upgraded to 6SN7 tubes. One can dream right?


----------



## evanescent

Rowethren said:


> That would be perfect! Mjolnir 3 with a stepped attenuator and upgraded to 6SN7 tubes. One can dream right?


Yes! And a remote and switch between solid state and tube input stages.


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

evanescent said:


> If what you're after is the buzzwords, sure!  But those two specific buzzwords are about fixing problems that occur in the cheaper amps, but may not be relevant to the MJ2. Nexus is about integrating single ended and balanced capabilities, but MJ2 is 'inherently balanced'. Continuity is about the change from class A to class AB, but it may be that MJ2 never leaves class A anyway...
> 
> I'd like to see a MJ2+ with some of the Freya features added to what is already a great design.




I am not after buzzwords, I am just suspecting something would be added or modified.

TIL Ragnorak is cheap.


----------



## xigster

spacelion2077 said:


> There is no point of of getting Mjolnir 2 now considering Jotunheim and A90 offers similar performance with half of the price. Really hope Schiit can release a new model this year


Yeah, I'm kind of under the same impression at this point.  I currently have a jot2 running balanced off of a gungnir multibit (a2) and I have a lyr3 running off of a bifrost 2, and, as much as I'd love to have a balanced tube hybrid, it doesn't seem like it's worth the jump considering how good the jot2 is at this point.  Would love to see a MJ refresh with 6sn7 tubes though.  I'd jump on that for sure!  Anyone have any further opinions on this?


----------



## G0rt

xigster said:


> Yeah, I'm kind of under the same impression at this point.  I currently have a jot2 running balanced off of a gungnir multibit (a2) and I have a lyr3 running off of a bifrost 2, and, as much as I'd love to have a balanced tube hybrid, it doesn't seem like it's worth the jump considering how good the jot2 is at this point.  Would love to see a MJ refresh with 6sn7 tubes though.  I'd jump on that for sure!  Anyone have any further opinions on this?


I'd likely buy an Mj3, with some Freya+ updates, but honestly Mj2 is as good as it ever was, which is really, really good.

Here, an OG Gungnir Multibit drives Mj2 balanced, Lyr3 SE, and a OG Saga SE to VH2, Asgard2 and Jot1.

It all sounds great, and offers different synergies with various cans and tweakages, but Mj2 nearly always sounds best, to me.

I've thought about selling the rest as a Schiit Starter Kit, but it's just too much fun to play with. Lyr3 offers interesting tubing options, too.

Today, breaking in some NOS GE 6BZ7 with a recabled DT-1990 and Dave Matthews catalog. Cheap thrills.


----------



## George Chronis

Guidostrunk said:


> I should be getting mine back in about a week or so from getting cap modded. Hoping the results are just as prominent as the Gilmore lite mk2 and Liquid Platinum.
> Will update this thread when I get it back.


What caps did you change and do you hear a difference?


----------



## Guidostrunk

George Chronis said:


> What caps did you change and do you hear a difference?


I'll be posting a review soon. Waiting for Keith to finish his. All caps were changed. The results are pretty significant.


----------



## M-83 (Apr 12, 2021)

Hey All,

What is the going rate these days for a used MJ2 & Gumby stack?  I used to have both but fell on some hard times (happens to the best of us) and they sadly had to go.

I'm currently rocking a Modi MB and Lyr 2, and have a Project Ember 2.1 that's been recently displaced by the Lyr 2.  I'm already turning my focus onto moving all three on to part fund the MJ2 & Gumby when I have enough saved.

Also, I would really appreciate some insight into synergy between MJ2, Gumby & Modhouse Argon Mk2 T50RP... I used to love Alpha Prime (sold it along with the MJ2 & Gumby), but I must admit I'm delighted with Argon - it's so much fun 

Thanks.

(Edit - spelling/grammar)


----------



## Guidostrunk

$600 for MJ2 give or take a few bucks. Seen a Unison A2 Gumby recently go for $950.


----------



## M-83

Guidostrunk said:


> $600 for MJ2 give or take a few bucks. Seen a Unison A2 Gumby recently go for $950.


Okay great thx. 

I'm in the UK and seeing them for sale appears to be pretty rare.

I'll start saving!


----------



## AndyTheGreatest

I'll second @Guidostrunk, I paid $1550 total 2-3 months ago. It's definitely possible to get less, so I'd target anything under $1500 total. Gumby A2 can be had for under $900 if you are patient and don't care for the Unison USB upgrade.


----------



## xigster

Looks like Schiit just removed the Mjolnir 2 from their website.  Not seeing it anymore...


----------



## ThanatosVI

xigster said:


> Looks like Schiit just removed the Mjolnir 2 from their website.  Not seeing it anymore...


Mjolnir 3 Inc?
I remember seeing the Mjölnir 2 last week


----------



## AndyTheGreatest

Very interesante... 👀


----------



## M-83

xigster said:


> Looks like Schiit just removed the Mjolnir 2 from their website.  Not seeing it anymore...


Yes I saw that earlier today. Interesting....


----------



## Mike-WI

ThanatosVI said:


> Mjolnir 3 Inc?
> I remember seeing the Mjölnir 2 last week


*2021 Apr 16 - Jason Stoddard - imminent demise of Mjolnir 2*
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-5012#post-16300706
(bold added)

Hey all,

I'm back in California for a while, so I figured I'd give you an update.

First, we are producing speaker amps like crazy--you'll be seeing the backorders shrink for Aegir, Vidar, and Ragnarok 2 over the next week or so as we get caught up, and the intent is to eventually get to 1-3 day shipping for all speaker power amps. This would be a first for us--these products have almost always been 7-10 days.

Second, we're building black Freya+es and seeing if anyone wants one to help clear those backorders (lots of silver orders, silver tops we are still waiting for.)

Third, we're increasing capacity again, adding additional runs at new Utah PCB assembly houses to help meet demand.

All of this stuff should help get us out of the deep backorders, get us shipping more consistently, and allow us to fully open some channels (distributors, Amazon). But again, this takes time, and it also requires no surprises in planning. There have been a lot of surprises lately, though things seem to be getting better as far as the supply chain goes.

Finally,* I must announce the imminent demise of Mjolnir 2*. As in, *it will be dropped from the product line with no planned successor.*

"Why? Why are you doing such a terrible thing?" you might ask. "I always liked Mjolnir 2!"

So did I. I still have one at home.

But there's several problems with Mjolnir 2, not least of which is that the performance of Jotunheim 2 is now so good--in a smaller, more convenient amp. Also, Mjolnir 2 uses complex transformers that are hard to get right, have long lead times, and can be variable. So it's going away.

"Will you ever do something like Mjolnir 2 again?" you ask.

*As of now, we don't have a Mjolnir 3 on the books.* I've played with ideas, including ones you expect (tube hybrid with Nexus and Continuity, which did not work because the tubes can't match precisely enough, and a differential operational point servo "fought" the other operational point servos, resulting in unreliable start-up) and some you probably didn't (back to solid state with relay volume and two card slots, or a differential version of Coherence, both of which weren't all that exciting).

And, here's the thing: Mjolnir 2 is huge. Any Mjolnir 3 would either be (a) the same size, not desktop friendly, or (b) a weird size that doesn't match everything we make. I'd love to go back in time and make all the "large midsize" gear not as wide, but I don't have a direct line to any rogue Time Lords. So that means we're stuck with a size that may make sense in a rack, but not so much on a desk. That's probably one reason why Mjolnir 2 was, ahem, less popular than it might have been.

*So, say farewell to Mjolnir 2.* If you already have one, don't worry--we'll still service and repair them for the foreseeable future (hell, we're still repairing 10+ year old Asgards to this day).* And if you want one, you have a small window to pick one up before they go away. *Though honestly, after living with Jotunheim 2, it's really hard to justify. But then again, I'm cheap...and I like my desk space.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Mike-WI said:


> *2021 Apr 16 - Jason Stoddard - imminent demise of Mjolnir 2*
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-5012#post-16300706
> (bold added)
> 
> ...


Thx for sharing.


----------



## spacelion2077

T


Mike-WI said:


> *2021 Apr 16 - Jason Stoddard - imminent demise of Mjolnir 2*
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-5012#post-16300706
> (bold added)
> 
> ...


This is to be expected. Jotunheim sounds just as good,  as powerful as Mjolnir 2 and only at half of its price.


----------



## ThanatosVI

spacelion2077 said:


> T
> 
> This is to be expected. Jotunheim sounds just as good,  as powerful as Mjolnir 2 and only at half of its price.


Yeah Jotunheim 2 and Bifrost 2 really created some struggle for existence for their "bigger brothers"


----------



## M-83

spacelion2077 said:


> T
> 
> This is to be expected. Jotunheim sounds just as good,  as powerful as Mjolnir 2 and only at half of its price.


Does jot 2 really sound as good as mj2?

One is a solid state the other a tube amp... Unless I'm mistaken


----------



## Mike-WI

ThanatosVI said:


> Yeah Jotunheim 2 and Bifrost 2 really created some struggle for existence for their "bigger brothers"


Bifrost 2 really seems like a high value option.
I started making a comparison table of the DACs.
One reason to go up is for the Adapticlock.
I do like the sampling readouts on the Yggdrasil.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Too bad the jot 2 doesn't have tubes.


----------



## Mike-WI

M-83 said:


> Does jot 2 really sound as good as mj2?
> 
> One is a solid state the other a tube amp... Unless I'm mistaken


Not exactly what you asked, but FYI...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-mjolnir-2-listening-impressions.778250/page-175#post-14275847


> Interestingly I've read some comparisons of Jot vs Mj2 with LISST and the consensus seems to be a preference for Jot as it is more resolving. Would you agree with this conclusion?


----------



## Mike-WI

One MJ2 left in B stock.
One MJ1 as C-stock
https://www.schiit.com/b-stocks


----------



## Guidostrunk

Soon I'll be posting some thoughts on my cap modded MJ2. The MJ2 really is something special. Especially with the right tubes.


----------



## reddog

I own the JOT 2 and the MJ2 and both are great amps. However I never thought my JOT 2 sounded like the MJ2 ( a tube amp). I do appreciate the JOT 2 is smaller and takes up less space. I think the JOT 2 is a very good solid state amp, powerful and versatile, all in a small package. However it does not have that old time tube goodness


----------



## M-83

reddog said:


> I own the JOT 2 and the MJ2 and both are great amps. However I never thought my JOT 2 sounded like the MJ2 ( a tube amp). I do appreciate the JOT 2 is smaller and takes up less space. I think the JOT 2 is a very good solid state amp, powerful and versatile, all in a small package. However it does not have that old time tube goodness


Thanks Reddog.  It's been a few years since I previously owned Gungnir Multibit A2 & MJ2.  It was truly end game for me with Alpha Prime.  A sudden unexpected change of work circumstances forced me to sell sadly. I actually really liked the size of them - it added to the presence they had on my lounge.

I don't think Jot 2 is for me....My heart is set on Gumby and MJ2...however this time round it may be Argon MK2 T50RP that I use - Argon is great fun with my current setup comprised of Modi Multibit and Lyr 2.  I still have the same tubes I used previously and they will be perfect for MJ2.


----------



## M-83

Mike-WI said:


> Not exactly what you asked, but FYI...
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-mjolnir-2-listening-impressions.778250/page-175#post-14275847


Thanks Mike.  I think I would prefer MJ2 by the sound of things.  There is just something special about a great sounding tube amp vs solid state


----------



## Randolf711

I would imagine both Jot2 and MJ2 sound great, just different flavors. However, having purchased a MJ2, I may never get another head amp. Admittedly, I am not an avid headphone listener. I will always upgrade my amps, preamps, DAC, and my cans but the MJ 2 is my second favorite piece of equipment behind the Yggy.


----------



## spacelion2077

I hope Schiit will release more high end tube amps in the future. Mjnolnir is pretty good but comparing to other tube amps on the market like Cayin, Pathos, WooAudio, its sound simply don't stand out. Schiit Freya produces much better tubey sound than MJ2 does


----------



## ThanatosVI

spacelion2077 said:


> I hope Schiit will release more high end tube amps in the future. Mjnolnir is pretty good but comparing to other tube amps on the market like Cayin, Pathos, WooAudio, its sound simply don't stand out. Schiit Freya produces much better tubey sound than MJ2 does


Yeah the Freya+ is pretty amazing for the money. 

Freya+ -> Jotunheim might be a crappy Form factor but certainly a great "tube amp" option in terms of sound.


----------



## Guidostrunk

spacelion2077 said:


> I hope Schiit will release more high end tube amps in the future. Mjnolnir is pretty good but comparing to other tube amps on the market like Cayin, Pathos, WooAudio, its sound simply don't stand out. Schiit Freya produces much better tubey sound than MJ2 does


Have you rolled tubes in the MJ2?  The MJ2 is a hybrid and does carry a lot of SS qualities like dynamics, and slam. Where it distances itself from those qualities is in the imaging and dimensional stage presence. I'm currently running CBS Hytron 7728(on adapters) in the (cap mod) MJ2 It handily bests the Woo Wa6 i had years ago in that regard, and that's with $850 worth of tube upgrades(WE 422a/BrimarCV1988 on adapters) in the Woo. 

It really is sad to see it being discontinued. Me personally will keep my MJ2 as my amp in the foreseeable future. Especially since it's one of a kind(only 3 in existence). 2 others have theirs modded as well. 
It has all the power I'll need and delivers the goods in spades.


----------



## cgb3

reddog said:


> I own the JOT 2 and the MJ2 and both are great amps. However I never thought my JOT 2 sounded like the MJ2 ( a tube amp). I do appreciate the JOT 2 is smaller and takes up less space. I think the JOT 2 is a very good solid state amp, powerful and versatile, all in a small package. However it does not have that old time tube goodness


I love the sound from the Lyr 3 single out (with early 50's RCA's, you apparently have the Lyr 2) as a pre-amp out to the Jot2. Give it a try.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Have you rolled tubes in the MJ2?  The MJ2 is a hybrid and does carry a lot of SS qualities like dynamics, and slam. Where it distances itself from those qualities is in the imaging and dimensional stage presence. I'm currently running CBS Hytron 7728(on adapters) in the (cap mod) MJ2 It handily bests the Woo Wa6 i had years ago in that regard, and that's with $850 worth of tube upgrades(WE 422a/BrimarCV1988 on adapters) in the Woo.
> 
> It really is sad to see it being discontinued. Me personally will keep my MJ2 as my amp in the foreseeable future. Especially since it's one of a kind(only 3 in existence). 2 others have theirs modded as well.
> It has all the power I'll need and delivers the goods in spades.


I too am sad to see the passing of Moljnir-II and I am excitedly awaiting the MJ-II (with @ksorota capacitor mods) as a part of my listening system. I got my order in with Schiit just before “the drawbridge was raised”. The MJ-II’s amp brethren _chez moi_ will be: Liquid Platinum (cap/mod), Vioelectric V280, Woo WA22, Woo WA3, and Woo WA6.

I was curious that “large size” was a consideration for the MJ-II’s passing. I do not have a ‘desktop’ setup but I realise that many HFiers do. Still, I am reluctant to think of Thor’s hammer as a ‘fisher-price’ sized plaything...


----------



## reddog

cgb3 said:


> I love the sound from the Lyr 3 single out (with early 50's RCA's, you apparently have the Lyr 2) as a pre-amp out to the Jot2. Give it a try.


I use my Gungnir and MJOLNIR 2 to watch TV, but for serious listening I use my Yggy and Cavalli Liquid Glass or Gold to get into the music.  Although I do have some wonderful NOS Telefunken tubes for the MJ2, which makes my Frank Zappa or Felonious Monk sound wonderful


----------



## cgb3

reddog said:


> I use my Gungnir and MJOLNIR 2 to watch TV, but for serious listening I use my Yggy and Cavalli Liquid Glass or Gold to get into the music.  Although I do have some wonderful NOS Telefunken tubes for the MJ2, which makes my Frank Zappa or Felonious Monk sound wonderful


My "wonderful" is different from yours. Good listening.


----------



## Guidostrunk

This is my wonderful, atm.


----------



## jonathan c

My wonderful hour+


----------



## ksorota

jonathan c said:


> I too am sad to see the passing of Moljnir-II and I am excitedly awaiting the MJ-II (with @ksorota capacitor mods) as a part of my listening system. I got my order in with Schiit just before “the drawbridge was raised”. The MJ-II’s amp brethren _chez moi_ will be: Liquid Platinum (cap/mod), Vioelectric V280, Woo WA22, Woo WA3, and Woo WA6.
> 
> I was curious that “large size” was a consideration for the MJ-II’s passing. I do not have a ‘desktop’ setup but I realise that many HFiers do. Still, I am reluctant to think of Thor’s hammer as a ‘fisher-price’ sized plaything...




Found some time today!!! 





Time to run it in! 

MJ1 is going to be my next project

Now if only there was a MJ3


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> Found some time today!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am impressed!


----------



## reddog

M-83 said:


> Thanks Reddog.  It's been a few years since I previously owned Gungnir Multibit A2 & MJ2.  It was truly end game for me with Alpha Prime.  A sudden unexpected change of work circumstances forced me to sell sadly. I actually really liked the size of them - it added to the presence they had on my lounge.
> 
> I don't think Jot 2 is for me....My heart is set on Gumby and MJ2...however this time round it may be Argon MK2 T50RP that I use - Argon is great fun with my current setup comprised of Modi Multibit and Lyr 2.  I still have the same tubes I used previously and they will be perfect for MJ2.


I still have my beloved red Alpha Primes and listen to them once a week. I even took them to my last hospital stay.  But your Argon sounds like a great pair of cans


----------



## M-83

reddog said:


> I still have my beloved red Alpha Primes and listen to them once a week. I even took them to my last hospital stay.  But your Argon sounds like a great pair of cans


Nice.  I miss mine.   I dug out these pics today of my previous end-game rig.  I realise now just how much I miss my old rig.  Gonna be a while before I can afford this awesome Schiit stack again.  Sigh.


----------



## M-83

ksorota said:


> Found some time today!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks very interesting.  Pls can you explain what you have done?


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> Found some time today!!!


That black six pack of capacitors (?) is impressive. And I just paid attention to the Soekris 2541, very nice DAC!


----------



## ksorota

This is essentially a super version of the Monoprice LP mod from 2020.  It takes the stock MJ2 and puts it up to 11!

The modification involves swapping out the stock power and input/output capacitors with Nichicon Muse/Finegolds or Elna Silmic IIs for increased dynamics and staging.  The row of large caps on the left in the image includes 8 35v, (4 standing and 4 laying down) and two 250v caps (two at the front).  This thing has a lot of power and the new capacitors help to more quickly discharge that power and increase the liveliness of the MJ2.  The collective effect of the cap mod is to increase the overall dynamics and detail while also taming some of the brightness.  The MJ2 chassis is fairly tightly packed, so it takes some work to get everything in their, but def. worth the efforts.  I have been working with Sam for at least a month now on his and mine, and now am working on Jonathan's and I am impressed with it each time over stock.  

_*Disclaimer:*
If anyone is looking to do this mod themselves, make sure to discharge the caps before taking any of them off of the board.  While doing Jonathan's, after traveling for a week direct from Schiit, the board was still holding 150volts in capacitance...easily able to do some damage to the board.  I use a lightbulb to discharge, and check with a volt meter until I am down to 1 v or less.  _


----------



## tjl5709

ksorota said:


> This is essentially a super version of the Monoprice LP mod from 2020.  It takes the stock MJ2 and puts it up to 11!
> 
> The modification involves swapping out the stock power and input/output capacitors with Nichicon Muse/Finegolds or Elna Silmic IIs for increased dynamics and staging.  The row of large caps on the left in the image includes 8 35v, (4 standing and 4 laying down) and two 250v caps (two at the front).  This thing has a lot of power and the new capacitors help to more quickly discharge that power and increase the liveliness of the MJ2.  The collective effect of the cap mod is to increase the overall dynamics and detail while also taming some of the brightness.  The MJ2 chassis is fairly tightly packed, so it takes some work to get everything in their, but def. worth the efforts.  I have been working with Sam for at least a month now on his and mine, and now am working on Jonathan's and I am impressed with it each time over stock.
> 
> ...


Can you post a "before" pic?


----------



## reddog

M-83 said:


> Nice.  I miss mine.   I dug out these pics today of my previous end-game rig.  I realise now just how much I miss my old rig.  Gonna be a while before I can afford this awesome Schiit stack again.  Sigh.


That was a sweet emd-game headphone rig system. I hope you eventually get another system soon


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> This is essentially a super version of the Monoprice LP mod from 2020.  It takes the stock MJ2 and puts it up to 11!
> 
> The modification involves swapping out the stock power and input/output capacitors with Nichicon Muse/Finegolds or Elna Silmic IIs for increased dynamics and staging.  The row of large caps on the left in the image includes 8 35v, (4 standing and 4 laying down) and two 250v caps (two at the front).  This thing has a lot of power and the new capacitors help to more quickly discharge that power and increase the liveliness of the MJ2.  The collective effect of the cap mod is to increase the overall dynamics and detail while also taming some of the brightness.  The MJ2 chassis is fairly tightly packed, so it takes some work to get everything in their, but def. worth the efforts.  I have been working with Sam for at least a month now on his and mine, and now am working on Jonathan's and I am impressed with it each time over stock.
> 
> ...


Fascinating for an interested non-EE...damage to the board...how about damage to digits and nerves?....


----------



## ksorota

jonathan c said:


> Fascinating for an interested non-EE...damage to the board...how about damage to digits and nerves?....


Its just a tickle!


----------



## ksorota

tjl5709 said:


> Can you post a "before" pic?


I’ll find one and post it tomorrow.


----------



## Guidostrunk

tjl5709 said:


> Can you post a "before" pic?






Here's a stock pic of MJ2.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Those are Brimar CV4033 tubes on adapters in the pic lol.


----------



## Guidostrunk

For me this mod on the MJ2 has been the most significant change out of any amp I've had done. The LP was great. Especially with the Alps pot installed, but that was pretty time consuming with all the faceplate modifications and it falls short of the MJ2. 
The added benefit is using 12at7 tubes on adapters. I love the 12au7 but the 12at7 for me is where it's at.


----------



## M-83

reddog said:


> That was a sweet emd-game headphone rig system. I hope you eventually get another system soon


Thanks.  Yeah hope so too.  One day I'll get there.


----------



## M-83

ksorota said:


> This is essentially a super version of the Monoprice LP mod from 2020.  It takes the stock MJ2 and puts it up to 11!
> 
> The modification involves swapping out the stock power and input/output capacitors with Nichicon Muse/Finegolds or Elna Silmic IIs for increased dynamics and staging.  The row of large caps on the left in the image includes 8 35v, (4 standing and 4 laying down) and two 250v caps (two at the front).  This thing has a lot of power and the new capacitors help to more quickly discharge that power and increase the liveliness of the MJ2.  The collective effect of the cap mod is to increase the overall dynamics and detail while also taming some of the brightness.  The MJ2 chassis is fairly tightly packed, so it takes some work to get everything in their, but def. worth the efforts.  I have been working with Sam for at least a month now on his and mine, and now am working on Jonathan's and I am impressed with it each time over stock.
> 
> ...


Very impressive.  If you don't mind me asking....how much are the parts and how many man-hours does the mod take?


----------



## G0rt

Guidostrunk said:


> For me this mod on the MJ2 has been the most significant change out of any amp I've had done. The LP was great. Especially with the Alps pot installed, but that was pretty time consuming with all the faceplate modifications and it falls short of the MJ2.
> The added benefit is using 12at7 tubes on adapters. I love the 12au7 but the 12at7 for me is where it's at.


I occasionally try various valves in my MJ2, but always return to CV4033's.

I understand there's coupling capacitance between the  tube Vas and CrossFET stages. One might expect those to be critical components as well.


----------



## ksorota

M-83 said:


> Very impressive.  If you don't mind me asking....how much are the parts and how many man-hours does the mod take?



Approximately $150 in parts and about three hours  to do the work.


----------



## Guidostrunk

G0rt said:


> I occasionally try various valves in my MJ2, but always return to CV4033's.
> 
> I understand there's coupling capacitance between the  tube Vas and CrossFET stages. One might expect those to be critical components as well.


It's funny you say that because I do the same with the cv4033. The CBS Hytron 7728 was the end all be all when I got them. Even after extensive A/B listening sessions. I spent a solid week with the 7728 and swapped back in the cv4033. There's just something about that tube that no other tube ,with the exception of the A2900 , does. 

It's the most transparent, holographic, realistic imaging tube next to the A2900 with a midrange and bass response that grabs you by the plums 😂. I can't stress enough that the Brimar CV4033 is not a Mullard Blackburn sounding tube. They are two very different tubes. I think a lot of people miss out on the cv4033 due to " It's produced in England so it must be syrupy and dull". Not the case at all.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Don't forget to give them CV4033 another go @ksorota lol.


----------



## G0rt

Guidostrunk said:


> It's funny you say that because I do the same with the cv4033. The CBS Hytron 7728 was the end all be all when I got them. Even after extensive A/B listening sessions. I spent a solid week with the 7728 and swapped back in the cv4033. There's just something about that tube that no other tube ,with the exception of the A2900 , does.
> 
> It's the most transparent, holographic, realistic imaging tube next to the A2900 with a midrange and bass response that grabs you by the plums 😂. I can't stress enough that the Brimar CV4033 is not a Mullard Blackburn sounding tube. They are two very different tubes. I think a lot of people miss out on the cv4033 due to " It's produced in England so it must be syrupy and dull". Not the case at all.


Brimar did really good work, and literally wrote the book on tube reliability, so these Mil Spec bottles should serve for a good long time.

They also sound superb in Vali2, Lyr3 and Valhalla2.


----------



## Rowethren

I don't suppose you could provide some details on the CV4033? Like which verity/age to look for and if they need an adaptor? They sound like an interesting tube.


----------



## G0rt (Apr 21, 2021)

Rowethren said:


> I don't suppose you could provide some details on the CV4033? Like which verity/age to look for and if they need an adaptor? They sound like an interesting tube.


Mine came from TubeMonger, and need adaptors, which TubeMonger can also provide. The tubes themselves were originally wire lead, but TubeMonger adds pin bases.

The CV4033's I have are from 1962, but availability is catch as catch can.


----------



## Guidostrunk

G0rt said:


> Mine came from TubeMonger, and need adaptors, which TubeMonger can also provide. The tubes themselves were originally wire lead, but TubeMonger adds pin bases.
> 
> The CV4033's I have are from 1962, but availability is catch as catch can.


Mine are from the same year. I also have their adapters. They should be getting more stock in soon.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Rowethren said:


> I don't suppose you could provide some details on the CV4033? Like which verity/age to look for and if they need an adaptor? They sound like an interesting tube.


Here's a link to the tubes. Currently sold out. 
https://www.tubemonger.com/Brimar_CV4033_NOS_1960_62_Prem_CV4024_STC_Eng_FAC_p/2042m.htm

And the adapters needed. Currently sold out as well.
https://www.tubemonger.com/12Axx_to...IB_1960s_p/12axx-ecc88-adap-novib-mcmurdo.htm


----------



## Rowethren

Great thanks for the replies both! I will send TubeMonger an email and ask about them. I bought my 6922 socket savers from them a few years ago and they have been great.


----------



## G0rt

CV4033 in the wild...


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


>


Is it fairly easy to take off the cover? Are any special tools needed? I ask because I want to install (remove) Tubemonger adapters without damage / wear n’ tear.


----------



## ksorota

jonathan c said:


> Is it fairly easy to take off the cover? Are any special tools needed? I ask because I want to install (remove) Tubemonger adapters without damage / wear n’ tear.



Its fairly straight forward, just a lot of screws.  The hardest part is putting it all back together with the LED light lined up.


----------



## Rowethren

jonathan c said:


> Is it fairly easy to take off the cover? Are any special tools needed? I ask because I want to install (remove) Tubemonger adapters without damage / wear n’ tear.


Do you need to take it apart to fit an adapter? I normally just attached them to the tube and slot them all in in one go. 

Seperatly I contacted TubeMonger about the CV4033 and adapters. They referred me to the manufacturer:

https://pulsetubestore.com/products...-plug-play-ready-to-use-m-pairs-quads-singles 

https://pulsetubestore.com/products...uction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china


----------



## Guidostrunk

Rowethren said:


> Do you need to take it apart to fit an adapter? I normally just attached them to the tube and slot them all in in one go.
> 
> Seperatly I contacted TubeMonger about the CV4033 and adapters. They referred me to the manufacturer:
> 
> ...


Now that's interesting. It's literally the same font and listing as tubemonger. Makes me wonder if it's their store. 
Regardless, people have access to both now lol


----------



## Rowethren

I think they are independent of each other but Pulse Tube Store supply custom made adapters and tubes for TubeMonger. 

The person I spoke to at TubeMonger said the people at Pulse Tube Store are in India so wouldn't reply to any messages until tomorrow due to the time difference.


----------



## ksorota

You do not have to take it apart to put the adapters in, but removing the adapter is a bit difficult with the top on.  Its very easy to get the adapter off when the top is off though!


----------



## Rowethren

ksorota said:


> You do not have to take it apart to put the adapters in, but removing the adapter is a bit difficult with the top on.  Its very easy to get the adapter off when the top is off though!


Ah that makes sense. Thankfully I have never had a problem removing them before. 

You lot are a terrible influence, just ordered a set of Brimar CV4033 for my Mjolnir 2. @Ripper2860 would be so proud


----------



## Guidostrunk

Rowethren said:


> Ah that makes sense. Thankfully I have never had a problem removing them before.
> 
> You lot are a terrible influence, just ordered a set of Brimar CV4033 for my Mjolnir 2. @Ripper2860 would be so proud


Did you get the adapters?


----------



## Rowethren

Guidostrunk said:


> Did you get the adapters?


Yep, I would have been pissed if the tubes arrived and I couldn't use them!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Rowethren said:


> Yep, I would have been pissed if the tubes arrived and I couldn't use them!


Definitely post your thoughts after you spend some time with them. Don't judge them out of the box. They take a bit to open up to their full potential.


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> You do not have to take it apart to put the adapters in, but removing the adapter is a bit difficult with the top on.  Its very easy to get the adapter off when the top is off though!


Thank you. It was the removal, should it occur, of the adapters that I was concerned about.


----------



## jonathan c

I just put in an order for extra 12Axx to ECC88 adapters with Pulse Tube Store via their website. No “out of stock” indication, payment via PayPal.


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> I just put in an order for extra 12Axx to ECC88 adapters with Pulse Tube Store via their website. No “out of stock” indication, payment via PayPal.


You happen to grab a pair of cv4033?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Guidostrunk said:


> You happen to grab a pair of cv4033?


I also have an extra pair of 7728 i can send your way for evaluation when you get your MJ2 back if you'd like. Shoot me a pm


----------



## evanescent

G0rt said:


> Brimar did really good work, and literally wrote the book on tube reliability, so these Mil Spec bottles should serve for a good long time.
> 
> They also sound superb in Vali2, Lyr3 and Valhalla2.


OK, you piqued my curiousity.

They're under $10 each direct from the UK on ebay.. I've ordered a couple and will wire them into some tube savers.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> You happen to grab a pair of cv4033?


Not yet... I have a bevy of “long-plate” 12AU7s which I would like to try out in the MJ-II.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> I also have an extra pair of 7728 i can send your way for evaluation when you get your MJ2 back if you'd like. Shoot me a pm


Thank you for the offer.


----------



## Rowethren

Guidostrunk said:


> Definitely post your thoughts after you spend some time with them. Don't judge them out of the box. They take a bit to open up to their full potential.


Will do, not sure how long they will take to get to the UK from India but hopefully less than a month as I am moving house lol...


----------



## Wes S (Apr 22, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Thank you for the offer.


I would definitely take him up on that offer.  The 7728 (1 hole plate) is my favorite 12at7/ecc81, without a doubt. Go ahead and get your wallet ready.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> I would definitely take him up on that offer.  The 7728 (1 hole plate) is my favorite 12at7/ecc81, without a doubt. Go ahead and get your wallet ready.


I go back and forth with the cv4033. I wish the Brimar has comparable soundstage presence lol. The 7728 has the most massive soundstage on any tube I've rolled. Still waiting for my 1 hole tubes to arrive. On a slow boat from Peru


----------



## jonathan c

A pair of Raytheon 7728 has been ordered...seller from whom I bought Raytheon 7730 pair...


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> I go back and forth with the cv4033. I wish the Brimar has comparable soundstage presence lol. The 7728 has the most massive soundstage on any tube I've rolled. Still waiting for my 1 hole tubes to arrive. On a slow boat from Peru


This?


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> A pair of Raytheon 7728 has been ordered...seller from whom I bought Raytheon 7730 pair...


Nice!  Do they have 2 holes in the plates or 1?  I prefer the 1 hole plate (earlier version), by a big margin.  In fact, I sold my pair of 2 hole, and kept 3 pairs of the 1 hole version.


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> This?



Yep.  That's my preferred vesion.


----------



## AndyTheGreatest (Apr 22, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Here's a link to the tubes. Currently sold out.
> https://www.tubemonger.com/Brimar_CV4033_NOS_1960_62_Prem_CV4024_STC_Eng_FAC_p/2042m.htm
> 
> And the adapters needed. Currently sold out as well.
> https://www.tubemonger.com/12Axx_to...IB_1960s_p/12axx-ecc88-adap-novib-mcmurdo.htm


A month ago I hit the "Notify me when these are available" button on the adapters and got an email saying they had stock at a facility in India. One PayPal payment later and I had my adapters after 5 days!

@Rowethren definitely email them about the adapters.

EDIT: should have read further. I see you already got adapters


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Nice!  Do they have 2 holes in the plates or 1?  I prefer the 1 hole plate (earlier version), by a big margin.  In fact, I sold my pair of 2 hole, and kept 3 pairs of the 1 hole version.


The Raytheon 7728s are the “early” / one-hole plate type.


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> This?


That's the seller I bought my trio from. Paid for them on March 27th and still waiting for them to show lol.


----------



## Rowethren

AndyTheGreatest said:


> A month ago I hit the "Notify me when these are available" button on the adapters and got an email saying they had stock at a facility in India. One PayPal payment later and I had my adapters after 5 days!
> 
> @Rowethren definitely email them about the adapters.
> 
> EDIT: should have read further. I see you already got adapters


As you edited in thankfully I have already ordered them, would have been very embarrassing if the tubes turned up and I couldn't use them lol. 

Good to know it only took 5 days for them to get to you though. I received the tracking and mine should arrive Monday next week which would be impressive!


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> That's the seller I bought my trio from. Paid for them on March 27th and still waiting for them to show lol.


From Peru, did the seller use *D*elivery *H*aul *L*lama ?....


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> From Peru, did the seller use *D*elivery *H*aul *L*lama ?....


😂😂😂 that's hilarious bro!


----------



## Rowethren

Tubes arrived this morning and sadly 1 of them is dead. I have emailed Pulse, hopefully they will sort it out without a fuss. Shame really as I was looking forward to testing them for the rest of the day...


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> This?


I snagged this one yesterday for $40.  I guess no one wanted to bid.   This was a freakin steal of deal!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> I snagged this one yesterday for $40.  I guess no one wanted to bid.   This was a freakin steal of deal!


Still haven't received my trio from him yet. They're stuck in Miami customs lol. Paid for them on March 27th.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Still haven't received my trio from him yet. They're stuck in Miami customs lol. Paid for them on March 27th.


Good thing I am not in a hurry, fingers crossed we both eventually get them.


----------



## Rowethren

I spoke to Pulse and they are sending me a new pair tomorrow. Fingers crossed these ones work okay. They have had very responsive and helpful customer service so far!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Rowethren said:


> I spoke to Pulse and they are sending me a new pair tomorrow. Fingers crossed these ones work okay. They have had very responsive and helpful customer service so far!


I have a pair of 58 cv4033 triple micas coming from them. Hopefully no issues with the tubes. Fingers crossed


----------



## Rowethren

Guidostrunk said:


> I have a pair of 58 cv4033 triple micas coming from them. Hopefully no issues with the tubes. Fingers crossed



Is there different versions then? The ones I bought are advertised as 1960 but I don't know the date code system for Brimar so I can't double check.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> I have a pair of 58 cv4033 triple micas coming from them. Hopefully no issues with the tubes. Fingers crossed


58' Triple mica!  I thought those were gone.  I have a single, but have not got to hear it yet.


----------



## Rowethren

Is there any advantage to them? I am tempted to ask if I can have them as a replacement if they are better.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 27, 2021)

Rowethren said:


> Is there any advantage to them? I am tempted to ask if I can have them as a replacement if they are better.


I don't think anyone has been able to compare the triple mica to the double mica yet.  However, I am sure @Guidostrunk will share once he gets his.  Also, I have both and will be comparing them in a couple of weeks, when I get the amp they are going in.  The fact that the plates are the same in both, has me thinking they are gonna sound pretty similar.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> 58' Triple mica!  I thought those were gone.  I have a single, but have not got to hear it yet.


I took a gamble and sent an email asking if they were getting anymore in and he replied he had some lol. So I snagged a pair. 
Send him an email in the contact section on his site. He has more


----------



## Guidostrunk

Rowethren said:


> Is there any advantage to them? I am tempted to ask if I can have them as a replacement if they are better.


I'll let you know when I get them. Generally with tubes. The older the better. The triple mica construction is better as well


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> I took a gamble and sent an email asking if they were getting anymore in and he replied he had some lol. So I snagged a pair.
> Send him an email in the contact section on his site. He has more


Nice man!  I am gonna hold off and leave them for others, as I already have a single.  As good as they might be, I don't see any ECC81/12AT7 besting the 7728 (1 hole plate).


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Nice man!  I am gonna hold off and leave them for others, as I already have a single.  As good as they might be, I don't see any ECC81/12AT7 besting the 7728 (1 hole plate).


I wish Miami would let mine go lol. Can't wait to hear em!


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> I wish Miami would let mine go lol. Can't wait to hear em!


I do to man, and I am really looking forward to hearing your reaction.  I think they sound like a CV4033 on steroids.


----------



## Rowethren

I might as well get the fancier version even if they are a bit more expensive. Never do things by half that is my motto!


----------



## Wes S

Rowethren said:


> I might as well get the fancier version even if they are a bit more expensive. Never do things by half that is my motto!


My thoughts exactly!  That way you are not always wondering how much better it could sound.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 28, 2021)

Any of y'all that use ECC81/12AT7 tubes, ever heard a Tungsram from Tilburg, Holland?  They are quite rare, and supposed to be some killer tubes.  I just scored a pair of Welded Plates, and I am really looking forward to hearing them.  These were listed as being Austrian made (which they aren't), so I got them super cheap.  Fingers crossed they are not noisy. 










I have pretty much collected and heard most of the more common and popular NOS ECC81's and lately I have been on the hunt for some of the more rare, and less known versions.  I am sure some of you have come across old tube reviews by the -  https://groups.io/g/HK-tubeaudio. They appear to have heard and collected more rare tubes, than most everyone else, and have some good things to say about the Tilburg Tungsram. I own some super rare Lorenz ECC81 foil d getters, which are as good as it gets and the definition of "Musical", and the Tilburg, Holland Tungsram are said to be even better.   I am really looking forward to conconfirming this myself.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Any of y'all that use ECC81/12AT7 tubes, ever heard a Tungsram from Tilburg, Holland?  They are quite rare, and supposed to be some killer tubes.  I just scored a pair of Welded Plates, and I am really looking forward to hearing them.  These were listed as being Austrian made (which they aren't), so I got them super cheap.  Fingers crossed they are not noisy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Got a 1951 Copenhagen TKB ECC81 pair I quite like, if you haven't heard the Hamburg PW 6201 and GEC A2900 along with the Mullard Mitcham 60's 6201's are my favorite non ECC82 pairs of tubes.


----------



## tamleo

Mjolnir 3 with the weird timbre in the treble range = still fail


----------



## Wes S (Apr 28, 2021)

TK16 said:


> Got a 1951 Copenhagen TKB ECC81 pair I quite like, if you haven't heard the Hamburg PW 6201 and GEC A2900 along with the Mullard Mitcham 60's 6201's are my favorite non ECC82 pairs of tubes.


You mean something like this.   I
scored a couple of these not to long ago.   Hamburg 6201 triple mica d getter pinched waiste.













Scored this recently too.









I am still looking for a pair of Copenhagen TKB Welded Plates.    I missed out on a pair yesterday that went for $93.


----------



## Guidostrunk

tamleo said:


> Mjolnir 3 with the weird timbre in the treble range = still fail


Mjolnir 3? Lol


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> You mean something like this.   I
> scored a couple of these not to long ago.   Hamburg 6201 triple mica d getter pinched waiste.
> 
> 
> ...


I have only heard 59 and 61 PW. Not the earlier D getter or the 3x micas. Great score there. $93 for those Copenhagen are a great deal. I regret selling my other pair.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> I have only heard 59 and 61 PW. Not the earlier D getter or the 3x micas. Great score there. $93 for those Copenhagen are a great deal. I regret selling my other pair.


I am kicking myself for missing out on those Copenhagen for $93.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Anyone else here from Pennsylvania that ordered cv4033 from pulse? Just curious. I got two different tracking numbers by accident and apparently someone about an hour away from me is getting a package from them lol.


----------



## tamleo

Guidostrunk said:


> Mjolnir 3? Lol


Yes Schiit said there would not be Mjolnir 3 because of some reasons. But they said such things before then coming out with new generations when time was right. 
To me, the biggest reason for the Schiit discontinuing the Mjolnir because it is not good in sound quality. Both the Mjolnir 1 and the 2. Maybe it is good to some people's ears but not mine ) Glaring treble and poor timbre


----------



## Guidostrunk

tamleo said:


> Yes Schiit said there would not be Mjolnir 3 because of some reasons. But they said such things before then coming out with new generations when time was right.
> To me, the biggest reason for the Schiit discontinuing the Mjolnir because it is not good in sound quality. Both the Mjolnir 1 and the 2. Maybe it is good to some people's ears but not mine ) Glaring treble and poor timbre


Yeah bro. That's the beauty of the hobby. Different strokes for different folks. 
Thanks for your input. Lol


----------



## tamleo

Guidostrunk said:


> Yeah bro. That's the beauty of the hobby. Different strokes for different folks.
> Thanks for your input. Lol


Yes you're welcome. Just happy with ur amp cause it is an antique and rare stuff now lol


----------



## Guidostrunk

tamleo said:


> Yes you're welcome. Just happy with ur amp cause it is an antique and rare stuff now lol


I'm just glad my life isn't ridiculously boring, that i frequent threads on a headphone forum trashing equipment I don't like. Some people do that though. What a pity. Thanks again for your input lol.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Anyone else here from Pennsylvania that ordered cv4033 from pulse? Just curious. I got two different tracking numbers by accident and apparently someone about an hour away from me is getting a package from them lol.


Not me for cv4033s. Did order the extra adapters. Related to all this: have been amazed at the sound from the @ksorota (🥇) modded Mjolnir II. If the mod LP is a “10”, the mod Mjolnir is a “15”. Clarity, linearity, soundstage, height, depth ===> overall engagement is outstanding. In my mind, for the “all-in” cost, my best high-end purchase, period! So far the tube ammo has been Amperex PQ 7308s. Coming up next, the Lansdale 12AU7 (long-plate). On order: Raytheon 7728 and GEC A2900 (!).


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Not me for cv4033s. Did order the extra adapters. Related to all this: have been amazed at the sound from the @ksorota (🥇) modded Mjolnir II. If the mod LP is a “10”, the mod Mjolnir is a “15”. Clarity, linearity, soundstage, height, depth ===> overall engagement is outstanding. In my mind, for the “all-in” cost, my best high-end purchase, period! So far the tube ammo has been Amperex PQ 7308s. Coming up next, the Lansdale 12AU7 (long-plate). On order: Raytheon 7728 and GEC A2900 (!).


It is that good bro! I still can't believe how good it sounds! I was waiting for your post.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm definitely interested in your thoughts on the A2900.


----------



## jonathan c

jonathan c said:


> Not me for cv4033s. Did order the extra adapters. Related to all this: have been amazed at the sound from the @ksorota (🥇) modded Mjolnir II. If the mod LP is a “10”, the mod Mjolnir is a “15”. Clarity, linearity, soundstage, height, depth ===> overall engagement is outstanding. In my mind, for the “all-in” cost, my best high-end purchase, period! So far the tube ammo has been Amperex PQ 7308s. Coming up next, the Lansdale 12AU7 (long-plate). On order: Raytheon 7728 and GEC A2900 (!).


Just a few more thoughts on the Mjolnir II. It delivers: the finely sculpted magic midrange, the ethereal and effortless treble of tubes + the depth, fullness, and solidity of solid-state in the bass/mid bass. AND the dynamic range is nonpareil. MJII is musical to the utmost.


----------



## tamleo

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm just glad my life isn't ridiculously boring, that i frequent threads on a headphone forum trashing equipment I don't like. Some people do that though. What a pity. Thanks again for your input lol.


I get it bro lol That is what forums are for lol So that less fraudy or unfit manufacturers can lure more stubborn or uneducated people to buy overpriced or mediocre products lol It is the beauty of sharing lol I am busy now so i am sorry if i cannot notice and quote all your posts from now on lol


----------



## Rowethren

jonathan c said:


> Not me for cv4033s. Did order the extra adapters. Related to all this: have been amazed at the sound from the @ksorota (🥇) modded Mjolnir II. If the mod LP is a “10”, the mod Mjolnir is a “15”. Clarity, linearity, soundstage, height, depth ===> overall engagement is outstanding. In my mind, for the “all-in” cost, my best high-end purchase, period! So far the tube ammo has been Amperex PQ 7308s. Coming up next, the Lansdale 12AU7 (long-plate). On order: Raytheon 7728 and GEC A2900 (!).


The mod does look interesting and not all that expensive. Not sure I would have the technical skills to do it myself sadly...


----------



## Guidostrunk

tamleo said:


> I get it bro lol That is what forums are for lol So that less fraudy or unfit manufacturers can lure more stubborn or uneducated people to buy overpriced or mediocre products lol It is the beauty of sharing lol I am busy now so i am sorry if i cannot notice and quote all your posts from now on lol


Very happy that you're busy. If it interferes with this thread,  we'll understand. Arrivederci


----------



## Guidostrunk

Man it's 2am and I should be in bed 😂
Work in 4 hours.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 29, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Anyone else here from Pennsylvania that ordered cv4033 from pulse? Just curious. I got two different tracking numbers by accident and apparently someone about an hour away from me is getting a package from them lol.


Man, they need to get the **** together!  Shipping packages is not hard, and believe me I know as I do it for a living.    I am really hoping you get your tubes bro!  They have amazing customer service and always get you taken care of, but man they need to work on the shipping side of things.


----------



## Rowethren

Doesn't help that they use FedEx


----------



## Wes S (Apr 29, 2021)

Rowethren said:


> Doesn't help that they use FedEx


Fedex is the best.  I have worked in the industry for 10 years, and Fedex is hands down better than UPS and USPS.  Of course there are exceptions depending on your area, however we ship all over the country and have very few issues.


----------



## Rowethren

Wes S said:


> Fedex is the best.  I have worked in the industry for 10 years, and Fedex is hands down better than UPS and USPS.  Of course there are exceptions depending on your area, however we ship all over the country and have very few issues.



Realistically they aren't too bad but their tracking system and estimated delivery times are awful. 

I have had a few deliveries from them over the last few months and without fail they have given a hugely optimistic delivery date only for my package to sit in a warehouse for a couple of days doing nothing. I ordered a keyboard in January from AliExpress and they were out by almost a week. 

I mean it is the definition of a first world problem but I would honestly prefer they didn't just pull a date out of the air and not give an estimate until they actual know when it will be delivered. 

From a UK perspective DPD are the best courier I have experienced. Almost always next day delivery, they give you a 1 hour delivery window the the morning it is due and you can track the location of the delivery van in real time! Beat that! LOL...


----------



## Wes S (Apr 29, 2021)

Rowethren said:


> Realistically they aren't too bad but their tracking system and estimated delivery times are awful.
> 
> I have had a few deliveries from them over the last few months and without fail they have given a hugely optimistic delivery date only for my package to sit in a warehouse for a couple of days doing nothing. I ordered a keyboard in January from AliExpress and they were out by almost a week.
> 
> ...


Interesting.  10 years of using them and FedEx has only missed a couple delivery dates, for the 100's of packages I have sent and received.  I guess I am lucky, and I should mention, I don't use FedEx Ground.

For international shipping I only use DHL, and they always deliver before estimated time.

Anyways back to the MJ2. . .I can't believe Schiit discontinued it, and are saying the new Jotunheim is good enough.  The Jotunheim doesn't even use tubes?  Those darn blind ab test that Schiit is so proud of, are not the best way to evaluate gear.  I have learned  you have to live with it and listen for days to weeks to get a good feel for a piece of gear.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Wes S said:


> Interesting.  10 years of using them and FedEx has only missed a couple delivery dates, for the 100's of packages I have sent and received.  I guess I am lucky, and I should mention, I don't use FedEx Ground.
> 
> For international shipping I only use DHL, and they always deliver before estimated time.
> 
> Anyways back to the MJ2. . .I can't believe Schiit discontinued it, and are saying the new Jotunheim is good enough.  The Jotunheim doesn't even use tubes?  Those darn blind ab test that Schiit is so proud of, are not the best way to evaluate gear.  I have learned  you have to live with it and listen for days to weeks to get a good feel for a piece of gear.


I was a little baffled that the form factor was a problem for them.
The hifi Standard 43cm width were just right imo.


----------



## TK16

tamleo said:


> Mjolnir 3 with the weird timbre in the treble range = still fail


How did you come to this conclusion on a phantom product that's never going to be released?


----------



## ksorota

TK16 said:


> How did you come to this conclusion on a phantom product that's never going to be released?



Totally off topic here...But I am going to be heading down to the Budd Lake area in a few weeks.  

Do you know if Black Forest and Bell's Mansion are still open? I have enjoyed many great meals here while working in Spencer and looking forward to going their again!

Back on Topic.  

Closest we can get to a Mjolnir 3 is the cap Modded MJ2 (lets call it a MJ2.5)!  If anyone wants to try it I can provide the cap values and some notes on what not to do.


----------



## jonathan c

I continue to be disappointed over the discontinuation of MJ-II without any obvious balanced tube hybrid successor. Schiit cited size as a factor in reducing appeal to those with desktop setups. What about the enthusiasts who have ‘regular’ setups? Is Schiit veering towards a base of gamers / audio users? That is fine, just do not leave the non-gamer enthusiasts “high and dry”...Jotenheim will NEVER be a substitute for Mjolnir II !...


----------



## jonathan c

tamleo said:


> Mjolnir 3 with the weird timbre in the treble range = still fail


Are you receiving interstellar radio waves? There is no Mjolnir 3.


----------



## TK16

ksorota said:


> Totally off topic here...But I am going to be heading down to the Budd Lake area in a few weeks.
> 
> Do you know if Black Forest and Bell's Mansion are still open? I have enjoyed many great meals here while working in Spencer and looking forward to going their again!
> 
> ...


Not really familiar with the restaurants here due to moving here shortly before the pandemic. Enzos Pizza on rt 46 is a great restaurant in Budd Lake.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Fedex is the best.  I have worked in the industry for 10 years, and Fedex is hands down better than UPS and USPS.  Of course there are exceptions depending on your area, however we ship all over the country and have very few issues.


FedEx is good by me.


----------



## G0rt

ksorota said:


> Totally off topic here...But I am going to be heading down to the Budd Lake area in a few weeks.
> 
> Do you know if Black Forest and Bell's Mansion are still open? I have enjoyed many great meals here while working in Spencer and looking forward to going their again!
> 
> ...


I expect we'd all be interested in mod details. 😉

Especially what not to do...


----------



## ksorota

I am running under the assumption that they are focusing on their most popular inventory currently and that they have some other designs that are just on the back burner as they deal with parts shortages.  

Seems likely that their will be a Modius MB at some point, and also a MJ2 replacement..perhaps a new Valhalla or Lyr update with full balanced topology.  Maybe its wishfull thinking, but maybe not!


----------



## G0rt

ksorota said:


> I am running under the assumption that they are focusing on their most popular inventory currently and that they have some other designs that are just on the back burner as they deal with parts shortages.
> 
> Seems likely that their will be a Modius MB at some point, and also a MJ2 replacement..perhaps a new Valhalla or Lyr update with full balanced topology.  Maybe its wishfull thinking, but maybe not!


What do we want? Mjolnir3!

When do we want it? Already!


----------



## ksorota (Apr 29, 2021)

G0rt said:


> I expect we'd all be interested in mod details. 😉
> 
> Especially what not to do...



The biggest (and I cannot stress this enough is) do not start removing capacitors until you are sure you have drained all the charge.  Their is a sig. amount of voltage and capacitance that is retained, and there are many sensitive parts on the board in close proximity to the 250v caps. That being said, on any project you should be draining the voltage from the board prior to working on it...the MJ2 just seems to hold onto its power longer than any other amp I have worked on.  

The replacement caps are oversized from stock, and not all versions of the same cap will fit.  You need to get. caps that are 38mm tall or less to be able to stand up vertically.  The 38mm tall power caps are larger in diameter, so the trade off is that you need to lay 4 of the 8 down on alter. locations on the board.

edit- I also recommend not swapping tubes too quickly.  Stock or modded.  The pent up power is always looking for a way out and if you missalign. the tubes somehow, you could create an arc.


----------



## Rowethren

I find the death of Mjolnir pretty disappointing especially as I have a Gungnir MB. The announcement basically says they won't be making any more amps that will stack with it, sad times!


----------



## G0rt

Roger that! I've worked on tube gear since I was a kid, so I've been bit a 'few' times. Just don't. Bleeders used to be a thing, for good reasons, also one hand in pocketses...


----------



## ksorota

G0rt said:


> Roger that! I've worked on tube gear since I was a kid, so I've been bit a 'few' times. Just don't. Bleeders used to be a thing, for good reasons, also one hand in pocketses...



Hard to even make your own bleeders.  I had to go to HD to buy some incandescent lightbulbs since everything in the house was LED based, lol.


----------



## tamleo

TK16 said:


> How did you come to this conclusion on a phantom product that's never going to be released?


Just my thought. I don't know a different reason for a product discontinued. In case Schiit tries hard to release a new and better version of Mjolnir but with the unfixed weird treble it is going to fail again


----------



## ksorota

Can you elaborate on weird treble?  I have a Mj1 and MJ2 and enjoy both.  I do not notice any weird treble issues using planar or dynamic headphones. Just curious how it compares to a Jot. or something else in your experience.


----------



## tamleo (Apr 29, 2021)

It just had the weird timbre..The 2 fixed the soft bass from the 1 but I still couldn't call them a right and natural sounding ..


----------



## G0rt

tamleo said:


> It just has the weird timber..The 2 fixed the soft bass from the 1 but I still couldn't call them a right and natural sounding ..


Interesting. What were you feeding them with?

I've only ever used an OG Gungnir Multibit, and that's precisely what I hear, much as from Lyr3, Valhalla2, Asgard2, Jotunheim1, Vali2. 

Nothing weird, just smooth, clean, slightly warm but overall highly transparent goodness from any of my 20-odd cans.


----------



## ksorota

Gotcha, thank you.


----------



## tamleo (Apr 29, 2021)

G0rt said:


> Interesting. What were you feeding them with?
> 
> I've only ever used an OG Gungnir Multibit, and that's precisely what I hear, much as from Lyr3, Valhalla2, Asgard2, Jotunheim1, Vali2.
> 
> Nothing weird, just smooth, clean, slightly warm but overall highly transparent goodness from any of my 20-odd cans.


The hrt music streamer ii, ii plus, the modi 2 plus, the gungnir ds. I had the original gungnir multibit for a week but not with the mjolnirs. I remember it had a wider, smoother and more euphonic sound compared to above dacs and my last cheaper schiit ds and multibit dacs


----------



## TK16

tamleo said:


> Just my thought. I don't know a different reason for a product discontinued. In case Schiit tries hard to release a new and better version of Mjolnir but with the unfixed weird treble it is going to fail again


I don't experience any weird treble on the MJ2 unless I used various GE tubes and others I don't care for. Right now I have 7316 in my MJ 2 and  Hamburg ECC82 in my LP.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> I don't experience any weird treble on the MJ2 unless I used various GE tubes and others I don't care for. Right now I have 7316 in my MJ 2 and  Hamburg ECC82 in my LP.


Nice to see those Hamburg's are getting some use!


----------



## G0rt

tamleo said:


> The hrt music streamer ii, ii plus, the modi 2 plus, the gungnir ds. I had the original gungnir multibit for a week but not with the mjolnirs. I remember it had a wider, smoother and more euphonic sound compared to above dacs and my last cheaper schiit ds and multibit dacs


I once tried my Bifrost 4490 with Mjolnir2 SE, but found Gungnir MB balanced best, and stopped fiddling. Much.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Nice to see those Hamburg's are getting some use!


Great tubes, but I got my 2nd pair in. 2 K62 11/56 45 degree D foil getter and a K62 2/57 45 degree regular D getter. Not as good but close. Bit warmer.


----------



## jonathan c (Apr 29, 2021)

tamleo said:


> Just my thought. I don't know a different reason for a product discontinued. In case Schiit tries hard to release a new and better version of Mjolnir but with the unfixed weird treble it is going to fail again


I think that the Mjolnir II, especially the @ksorota modded II, is extremely revealing of midrange / treble / ambience aberrations from DACs. The differences, to my ears, between ‘sigma-delta’ and ‘nos r2r’ results of d-a conversion are obvious. With the Mojo Audio EVO Mystique DAC (nos r2r) feeding the MJII, there is no weird treble, no weird anything - just unbelievably natural and engaging sound. The downside is that poorly mixed/mastered recordings will be revealed as such.


----------



## jonathan c

G0rt said:


> What do we want? Mjolnir3!
> 
> When do we want it? Already!


And we want to be official Schiit beta-testers before product official rollout...


----------



## spacelion2077

Get Freya with jotunheim since there won't be a mj3. The latest model of Jotunheim sounds just as good as mj2 and Freya is a great tube preamp for its price.


----------



## jonathan c

As I listen to some R&B / funk on the system this evening, something delightfully unsettling is occurring. As the @ksorota - modded Mjolnir II (ksorolnir?) with Lansdale 12au7s feeds Custom Cans (UK) modified HD-600s via palladium-silver cables, the 600s are sounding more like an electrostatic hp and the soundstage has widened to become a quasi “out of head” experience. The transient response is accelerated _without_ any glare or stridency. Instruments placed far left/far right in the mix seem now to be approaching the walls of my corner listening area! This has not happened with the 600s fueled by my other h/p/a (tube, hybrid, or solid-state). Plus, the perceived bass _extension_ is greater. I do not have the EE background to explain all this; I think of @ksorota ’s comment about the lengthy voltage retention of the capacitors in the amp. Anyway, the synergy between MJII and HD-600 is, to my ears, THERE. I cannot wait until the A2900s etc arrive...


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Great tubes, but I got my 2nd pair in. 2 K62 11/56 45 degree D foil getter and a K62 2/57 45 degree regular D getter. Not as good but close. Bit warmer.


I got a few pairs of those K62 Foil D, and totally agree about them being a bit warmer.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 30, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> As I listen to some R&B / funk on the system this evening, something delightfully unsettling is occurring. As the @ksorota - modded Mjolnir II (ksorolnir?) with Lansdale 12au7s feeds Custom Cans (UK) modified HD-600s via palladium-silver cables, the 600s are sounding more like an electrostatic hp and the soundstage has widened to become a quasi “out of head” experience. The transient response is accelerated _without_ any glare or stridency. Instruments placed far left/far right in the mix seem now to be approaching the walls of my corner listening area! This has not happened with the 600s fueled by my other h/p/a (tube, hybrid, or solid-state). Plus, the perceived bass _extension_ is greater. I do not have the EE background to explain all this; I think of @ksorota ’s comment about the lengthy voltage retention of the capacitors in the amp. Anyway, the synergy between MJII and HD-600 is, to my ears, THERE. I cannot wait until the A2900s etc arrive...


That sounds awesome!  Interestingly, those look like some heavily modded HD650's in that pic?  If you like those tubes, I can't wait to hear your reaction when you get your 7728's (talking about bass extension )  and A2900's.  Good stuff man!


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> That sounds awesome!  Interestingly, those look like some heavily modded HD650's in that pic?  If you like those tubes, I can't wait to hear your reaction when you get your 7728's (talking about bass extension )  and A2900's.  Good stuff man!


The hp are Sennheiser HD-600 modded by Custom Cans in the UK. There are cnc/milled backweights behind each driver to reduce resonance. I took out the ear side foam and replaced it with very thin perforated cross-fibre wipes cut to shape. Total cost was $415 including headphone and extra-low capacitance cable.


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> The hp are Sennheiser HD-600 modded by Custom Cans in the UK. There are cnc/milled backweights behind each driver to reduce resonance. I took out the ear side foam and replaced it with very thin perforated cross-fibre wipes cut to shape. Total cost was $415 including headphone and extra-low capacitance cable.


I bet those sound amazing.  I always preferred the 600 to the 650, and thanks for the info.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I got a few pairs of those K62 Foil D, and totally agree about them being a bit warmer.


Which do you prefer? I almost gave up on the Hamburg ECC82 because I had a k62 57 pair with 45 degree O getter that I sold. Wasn't bad but I preferred other tubes.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 30, 2021)

TK16 said:


> Which do you prefer? I almost gave up on the Hamburg ECC82 because I had a k62 57 pair with 45 degree O getter that I sold. Wasn't bad but I preferred other tubes.


I actually prefer the K62 square getter first, because of their little extra kick in the bass, but they are also brighter up top, so pair well with my warmer ZMF headphones.  I actually have 3 different versions of the Hamburg ECC82.  I have K62 in both square and foil d getter, and K6P bottom code with foil d getters.  The Foil D Getters with K6P bottom codes have the better mids with killer bloom and delicate detail, and smoothest highs, but are a bit softer in the bass.


----------



## stuck limo

Wes S said:


> Fedex is the best.  I have worked in the industry for 10 years, and Fedex is hands down better than UPS and USPS.  Of course there are exceptions depending on your area, however we ship all over the country and have very few issues.



My experience in the industry has been radically different. I would absolutely never use FedEx under any circumstance willingly. My company uses FedEx and we have tons of lost and delayed packages with them. And I've had dozens upon dozens of packages delivered to me via all 3 major carriers (FedEx, UPS, USPS). FedEx has screwed up the vast majority of my package deliveries, whereas UPS has been perfect and USPS has only screwed up once (and fixed it). To be fair, FedEx did a major screw up and fixed it immediately (a $1k headphone package got on the wrong truck) but the delivery drivers have been crap and screwed up a lot of my deliveries.


----------



## Wes S (May 1, 2021)

stuck limo said:


> My experience in the industry has been radically different. I would absolutely never use FedEx under any circumstance willingly. My company uses FedEx and we have tons of lost and delayed packages with them. And I've had dozens upon dozens of packages delivered to me via all 3 major carriers (FedEx, UPS, USPS). FedEx has screwed up the vast majority of my package deliveries, whereas UPS has been perfect and USPS has only screwed up once (and fixed it). To be fair, FedEx did a major screw up and fixed it immediately (a $1k headphone package got on the wrong truck) but the delivery drivers have been crap and screwed up a lot of my deliveries.


Just goes to show, go with what works for you.  You nailed it on the head with delivery drivers (that seems to be most of the problem), and I guess I have good ones handling my packages and have gotten lucky for 10 years.  I will continue to use Fedex without hesitation.


----------



## Wes S (May 1, 2021)

Anyone heard a Tilburg, Holland Tungsram ECC82 Welded Plate Dish Getter?  I just rolled a pair and wow they sound really freakin good!  I am currently burning them in, but so far they sound warm and rich in the mids like a Mullard ECC82 Long Plate Square Getter from Blackburn without the hazey vocals and have killer extension at both ends.  This was one of the more obscure tubes I have always wanted to hear, and so far they are everything I hoped they would be.  I could see these sounding really good in an MJ2.


----------



## jonathan c

Here we go, Mjolnir, here we go 🎶 🎶 [ in Steelers melody ]:      reports to come...


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Here we go, Mjolnir, here we go 🎶 🎶 [ in Steelers melody ]:      reports to come...


Holy schiit are you from Pittsburgh bro? Dying to hear your thoughts on them!


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> Here we go, Mjolnir, here we go 🎶 🎶 [ in Steelers melody ]:      reports to come...


Look at those boxes and tube label!  Playing in the big leagues now.   

I am really looking forward to hearing how those stack up against the 7728 1 hole.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Look at those boxes and tube label!  Playing in the big leagues now.
> 
> I am really looking forward to hearing how those stack up against the 7728 1 hole.


The A2900s have gotten here before the 7728s. I’m not picky about sequence...


----------



## Guidostrunk

More tube porn. 58 Brimar triple mica CV4033 cooking in the mule( as @Baldr refers to the MJ2) lol. 



I think what has surprised me the most is that these triples are from the Footscray plant and not the Rochester plant like my 62's. Very interesting 🤔. 

Will report back after I put some hours on them.


----------



## jonathan c (May 3, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> More tube porn. 58 Brimar triple mica CV4033 cooking in the mule( as @Baldr refers to the MJ2) lol.
> 
> I think what has surprised me the most is that these triples are from the Footscray plant and not the Rochester plant like my 62's. Very interesting 🤔.
> 
> Will report back after I put some hours on them.


Looking nice! I see that you have the gain setting on high. Reason?


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Looking nice! I see that you have the gain setting on high. Reason?


Well.... I ran it on low for the longest time because the Clears are sensitive and thought it be too much. High gain unleashes the beast. I can only get to 10 on the knob but I definitely prefer it to low gain. There's just more of everything on high gain. Everything just sounds effortless and more visceral. 
 Especially after switching back and forth a whole evening there was no going back. Lol.


----------



## Wes S (May 3, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> More tube porn. 58 Brimar triple mica CV4033 cooking in the mule( as @Baldr refers to the MJ2) lol.
> 
> I think what has surprised me the most is that these triples are from the Footscray plant and not the Rochester plant like my 62's. Very interesting 🤔.
> 
> Will report back after I put some hours on them.


I have some 60's 2 mica from Footscray, and the getter flashing looks a bit different than the Rochester.  However, I have not yet confirmed they sound any different.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Well.... I ran it on low for the longest time because the Clears are sensitive and thought it be too much. High gain unleashes the beast. I can only get to 10 on the knob but I definitely prefer it to low gain. There's just more of everything on high gain. Everything just sounds effortless and more visceral.
> Especially after switching back and forth a whole evening there was no going back. Lol.


I always preferred high gain on all the Schiit amps I have owned.  I always felt the dynamics were better, regardless of needing the extra power.


----------



## TK16

jonathan c said:


> Looking nice! I see that you have the gain setting on high. Reason?


I use high gain on GEC A2900's on my MJ2, like others have said it sounds better vs low gain. Only tubes I use low gain are ECC83, 6N2P, 6CC41 very high gain tubes.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> I use high gain on GEC A2900's on my MJ2, like others have said it sounds better vs low gain. Only tubes I use low gain are ECC83, 6N2P, 6CC41 very high gain tubes.


Ecc83 huh? 🤦‍♂️ oh boy. I never even considered them. What's your thoughts on them? Never tried one lol


----------



## Guidostrunk

Another rabbit hole I suppose. Cv4035?  😂


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Ecc83 huh? 🤦‍♂️ oh boy. I never even considered them. What's your thoughts on them? Never tried one lol


Not sure what ECC83 I tried but the others I mentioned I could only use in my dac. Tubes never sounded right in my Schiit amps due to the very high gain on them. 6CC41 and 6N2P are basically ECC83's 6.3 volts only and ECC88 pinout.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> Not sure what ECC83 I tried but the others I mentioned I could only use in my dac. Tubes never sounded right in my Schiit amps due to the very high gain on them. 6CC41 and 6N2P are basically ECC83's 6.3 volts only and ECC88 pinout.


Holy schiit! I still have my modded lite dac 68. I never pulled it out since modded because it's HUGE and requires a lot of shuffling 😂


----------



## Wes S (May 3, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Holy schiit! I still have my modded lite dac 68. I never pulled it out since modded because it's HUGE and requires a lot of shuffling 😂


Down the hole it is.   I have been collecting and hunting for rare ECC83's for my Pendant lately, and looks like I might have some more competition.


----------



## ksorota

Guidostrunk said:


> Holy schiit! I still have my modded lite dac 68. I never pulled it out since modded because it's HUGE and requires a lot of shuffling 😂



Oh man, forgot about that monster… tubes on tubes! Did you ever cut holes in the lid for the adapters?


----------



## jonathan c

jonathan c said:


> The A2900s have gotten here before the 7728s. I’m not picky about sequence...


I will add that a pair of Telefunken ECC801S is on the way:


----------



## TK16

jonathan c said:


> I will add that a pair of Telefunken ECC801S is on the way:


Had a pair of those, I sold them rather quickly. A bad match with the MJ2. They make the GEC A2900 sound like a warm tube. Hope you have a better experience.


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> Oh man, forgot about that monster… tubes on tubes! Did you ever cut holes in the lid for the adapters?


I haven't touched it since it's been back. 😂
This weekend I will give it a whirl lol


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> I haven't touched it since it's been back. 😂
> This weekend I will give it a whirl lol


You got it modded and didn't try it yet? That's hard-core bro. 😉


----------



## Rowethren

Guidostrunk said:


> More tube porn. 58 Brimar triple mica CV4033 cooking in the mule( as @Baldr refers to the MJ2) lol.
> 
> I think what has surprised me the most is that these triples are from the Footscray plant and not the Rochester plant like my 62's. Very interesting 🤔.
> 
> Will report back after I put some hours on them.



Interesting, hopefully mine should arrive today. What marks them as either a Rochester or Footscray tube?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Rowethren said:


> Interesting, hopefully mine should arrive today. What marks them as either a Rochester or Footscray tube?


The codes on the tube. 
KB/AD =Rochester 
KB/FD= Footscray


----------



## Rowethren

Guidostrunk said:


> The codes on the tube.
> KB/AD =Rochester
> KB/FD= Footscray


Thanks, mine just arrived and they are Footscray as well. I have them warming up at the moment, fingers crossed they both work this time.


----------



## G0rt

Rowethren said:


> Thanks, mine just arrived and they are Footscray as well. I have them warming up at the moment, fingers crossed they both work this time.


Nice!

I've got another 4 KB/AD inbound from Spain, NOS wire leads so I'll have to add pin adapters myself, which I already have.


----------



## Wes S (May 4, 2021)

Got a new number 1, from the 12au7/ecc82 family!  My beloved 7730 Long Plate Slanted Square Getters have been dethroned.

This tube does it all, and puts me there more than any other tube I have rolled so far.  The Tungsram welded plates dish getters are legit!  Everything is so well balanced and easy going, but dynamic and explosive at the same time, with the most detail I have heard yet.  The Tungsram has got the "magic", of having delicate inner detail in the mids without ever being harsh, deep slamming subbass and sparkly highs.  The vocals are stunning, and you hear all the lip smacking and little nuances in the recording.  This tube makes the 7730 sound "Pedestrian", and words that come to mind are "Refined" and "Organic".  The stage is as holographic and deep as it gets, with very good forward protection.  Basically, the headphones disappear and I am at the venue.  This is a tube I could easily recommend for any situation, due to the great balance top to bottom.  In fact, the balance is so good I am able to crank up the volume, due to the tube not having any glaring spikes in the FR.  This tube would sound dynamite in the MJ2.

Happy Hunting and Rolling!


----------



## Guidostrunk (May 4, 2021)

G0rt said:


> Nice!
> 
> I've got another 4 KB/AD inbound from Spain, NOS wire leads so I'll have to add pin adapters myself, which I already have.


Do you put bases on them yourself? I'd be interested in buying a pair from you if so lol.

Edit: 🤦‍♂️ you already answered my question. Didn't have my coffee yet when I posted lol.


----------



## Rowethren

These are sounding pretty damn good so far. They seem a bit more impactful in the bass and have more clarity across the board compared to the iFi 6922 I was using before. More prominent glow as well which is always nice for aesthetics!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Rowethren said:


> These are sounding pretty damn good so far. They seem a bit more impactful in the bass and have more clarity across the board compared to the iFi 6922 I was using before. More prominent glow as well which is always nice for aesthetics!


They'll open up more as you go. I usually make my assessment on tubes the closer I get to 50 hours. They can change significantly.


----------



## ksorota

Wes S said:


> Got a new number 1, from the 12au7/ecc82 family!  My beloved 7730 Long Plate Slanted Square Getters have been dethroned.
> 
> This tube does it all, and puts me there more than any other tube I have rolled so far.  The Tungsram welded plates dish getters are legit!  Everything is so well balanced and easy going, but dynamic and explosive at the same time, with the most detail I have heard yet.  The Tungsram has got the "magic", of having delicate inner detail in the mids without ever being harsh, deep slamming subbass and sparkly highs.  The vocals are stunning, and you hear all the lip smacking and little nuances in the recording.  This tube makes the 7730 sound "Pedestrian", and words that come to mind are "Refined" and "Organic".  The stage is as holographic and deep as it gets, with very good forward protection.  Basically, the headphones disappear and I am at the venue.  This is a tube I could easily recommend for any situation, due to the great balance top to bottom.  In fact, the balance is so good I am able to crank up the volume, due to the tube not having any glaring spikes in the FR.  This tube would sound dynamite in the MJ2.
> 
> Happy Hunting and Rolling!



Dethroned and for sale, wink wink, nudge nudge


----------



## Wes S

Rowethren said:


> These are sounding pretty damn good so far. They seem a bit more impactful in the bass and have more clarity across the board compared to the iFi 6922 I was using before. More prominent glow as well which is always nice for aesthetics!


Nice man!  The CV4033 definitely have got some serious bass punch, and that will get even tighter with burn in.  In fact, I think they have the strongest bass of all the ECC81's I have heard.


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> Dethroned and for sale, wink wink, nudge nudge


There you go Keith. 😂


----------



## Wes S

ksorota said:


> Dethroned and for sale, wink wink, nudge nudge


You will be the first to know if I do.  I still have one more amp coming, and then I will decide.


----------



## jonathan c

I have not forgotten about posting vis-a-vis the A2900s in the Mjolnir II. I sidetracked myself: on a whim, I put the A2900s in the output transformer-less Woo WA3 (first time using a 12AT7 there)....sonic NIRVANA....a complete landscape and horizon of music in colour (?) and in three dimensions....the A2900s may have to be a ‘standard issue’ here....Enough! on to the MJII.


----------



## Wes S (May 5, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> I have not forgotten about posting vis-a-vis the A2900s in the Mjolnir II. I sidetracked myself: on a whim, I put the A2900s in the output transformer-less Woo WA3 (first time using a 12AT7 there)....sonic NIRVANA....a complete landscape and horizon of music in colour (?) and in three dimensions....the A2900s may have to be a ‘standard issue’ here....Enough! on to the MJII.


The suspense is killing me bro!

Also, I did not know the WA3 could take a 12AT7 or for that matter A2900s?  Pretty damn cool if there are no issues, as that is my favorite tube type.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> The suspense is killing me bro!
> 
> Also, I did not know the WA3 could take a 12AT7 or for that matter A2900s?  Pretty damn cool if there are no issues, as that is my favorite tube type.


The WA3 can take those. I use the Tubemonger 12Axx -> ECC88 adapters. The heater (filament) currents are equivalent. More 12AT7s on the way: Brimar CV4033 and Siemens ECC801S...


----------



## Wes S (May 5, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> The WA3 can take those. I use the Tubemonger 12Axx -> ECC88 adapters. The heater (filament) currents are equivalent. More 12AT7s on the way: Brimar CV4033 and Siemens ECC801S...


That's awesome and I always wanted a WA3, and now I am gonna try and find one.  I bet the Brimar are gonna sound great.  I have not found a Siemens tube that does it for me, but have not tried them all, however I do love some other tubes from Germany, and specifically from Hamburg.  Another killer tube I recommend, is a Valvo ECC81 coin base from Hamburg.


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> The WA3 can take those. I use the Tubemonger 12Axx -> ECC88 adapters. The heater (filament) currents are equivalent. More 12AT7s on the way: Brimar CV4033 and Siemens ECC801S...


Did you get the triple mica cv4033? I know pulse doesn't advertise them but they will sell you a pair via email.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Did you get the triple mica cv4033? I know pulse doesn't advertise them but they will sell you a pair via email.


Hey Sam.  Curious if your triple mica have a square getter or O?


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Did you get the triple mica cv4033? I know pulse doesn't advertise them but they will sell you a pair via email.


They are the triples.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Approaching the 50 hour mark and these 58 Footscray triples handily beat the Rochester 62's. I got exactly what I wanted in the short comings of the Rochester tubes. Much larger soundstage and more air between notes. Way more refined. Not as liquid sounding. Tonality wise they're the same.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Hey Sam.  Curious if your triple mica have a square getter or O?


Mine have a large O.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Mine have a large O.


Cool, and Thanks!  Sounds like they are winners.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> That's awesome and I always wanted a WA3, and now I am gonna try and find one.  I bet the Brimar are gonna sound great.  I have not found a Siemens tube that does it for me, but have not tried them all, however I do love some other tubes from Germany, and specifically from Hamburg.  Another killer tube I recommend, is a Valvo ECC81 coin base from Hamburg.


I have had good luck (mainly great enjoyment) with Siemens - so far with their 6922, ECC88, and E88CC.  Thank you for the Valvo nod....I will give it a go....


----------



## Guidostrunk

This live album is insane!  😂
https://tidal.com/album/77699536


----------



## Guidostrunk

I can't recommend it enough folks. Get your MJ2 modded! Lol


----------



## jonathan c

Schiit Mjolnir II (ksorota mod) / GEC (Marconi) A2900:  together, they are completely engaging - holographic / panoramic / technicolour in sound - brazen in their presentation of the three dimensions (best that I have heard). Basically, the headphones are within the field of sound rather than being the focal point of sound. This quality really allows me to hear spatial layers in a recording and to follow whatever thread or combination of threads that I choose. Other items: linear frequency response ☑️, powerful sinewy bass ☑️, juicy mid bass ☑️, midrange with body and all the dimensional cues ☑️, treble that reaches ‘forever’ ☑️. Also: outstanding on vocals (important to me w/R&B library), stringed instruments (acoustic & electric), percussion (lifelike: what else is left to say?).

The MJII / A2900 combo may not be the _ne plus ultra_ of all audio but it certainly seems that to me. Newly traveling in 12AT7 terrain, I have gotten some of the above sonic rewards with Mullards. If they are the apprentices, the A2900s are the masters. The A2900s give more of everything with less “effort” and with “more in the tank”.


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Schiit Mjolnir II (ksorota mod) / GEC (Marconi) A2900:  together, they are completely engaging - holographic / panoramic / technicolour in sound - brazen in their presentation of the three dimensions (best that I have heard). Basically, the headphones are within the field of sound rather than being the focal point of sound. This quality really allows me to hear spatial layers in a recording and to follow whatever thread or combination of threads that I choose. Other items: linear frequency response ☑️, powerful sinewy bass ☑️, juicy mid bass ☑️, midrange with body and all the dimensional cues ☑️, treble that reaches ‘forever’ ☑️. Also: outstanding on vocals (important to me w/R&B library), stringed instruments (acoustic & electric), percussion (lifelike: what else is left to say?).
> 
> The MJII / A2900 combo may not be the _ne plus ultra_ of all audio but it certainly seems that to me. Newly traveling in 12AT7 terrain, I have gotten some of the above sonic rewards with Mullards. If they are the apprentices, the A2900s are the masters. The A2900s give more of everything with less “effort” and with “more in the tank”.


I'm really looking forward to hear your thoughts between them Tele Ecc801s and the 58 Footscray 3 mica. In the past I thought the Rochester cv4033 was close enough to the A2900 that it didn't warrant spending the extra dough. The Tele 801s are very dependent on gear and preference. I went back and forth with them and ultimately moved back to cv4033. 
And then there's the Valvo 6201 pinched waist you might want to give a shot. Fantastic tube but the imaging hurt my brain. Something just seemed off in comparison to all the other tubes.


----------



## jonathan c (May 6, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm really looking forward to hear your thoughts between them Tele Ecc801s and the 58 Footscray 3 mica. In the past I thought the Rochester cv4033 was close enough to the A2900 that it didn't warrant spending the extra dough. The Tele 801s are very dependent on gear and preference. I went back and forth with them and ultimately moved back to cv4033.
> And then there's the Valvo 6201 pinched waist you might want to give a shot. Fantastic tube but the imaging hurt my brain. Something just seemed off in comparison to all the others.


Based on @Wes S ’s recommendation, I have ordered Valvo ECC81 Hamburg to expand the 12AT7 cache. It may take 10 days or so for all the ordered “goodies” to arrive.


----------



## Wes S

@jonathan c is not messing around with tubes and I love it!  A tube collector/roller after my own heart!  Nothing funner than rolling through some famous tubes, as those tubes are famous for a reason.  I am really enjoying the show!


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> @jonathan c is not messing around with tubes and I love it!  A tube collector/roller after my own heart!  Nothing funner than rolling through some famous tubes, as those tubes are famous for a reason.  I am really enjoying the show!


I must say that I am struck by the “strength”, “forcefulness”, “heft” of the sound delivery of the 12AT7s - all the while keeping delicacy and huge dynamic range - compared to the 6922 types and 12AU7 types. I know that I own very good / excellent tubes of the latter two types, but still....education by ear is FUN....


----------



## Wes S (May 6, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> I must say that I am struck by the “strength”, “forcefulness”, “heft” of the sound delivery of the 12AT7s - all the while keeping delicacy and huge dynamic range - compared to the 6922 types and 12AU7 types. I know that I own very good / excellent tubes of the latter two types, but still....education by ear is FUN....


If you offered me the same tube in either 12au7 or 12AT7, I would take the 12AT7 everytime.  Don't get me wrong I do love the 12AU7 as well, however if the amp can take both, it's 12AT7.


----------



## jonathan c

The tubes which are ‘on deck’ for Mjolnir II batting:


----------



## Guidostrunk

Finally! My CBS 7728 (1 hole) tubes have arrived lol.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Finally! My CBS 7728 (1 hole) tubes have arrived lol.


Honey, look what the llama brought in !...😜


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Honey, look what the llama brought in !...😜


😂😂😂


----------



## Rowethren

Guidostrunk said:


> Finally! My CBS 7728 (1 hole) tubes have arrived lol.


Those ones in the background look very familiar!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Rowethren said:


> Those ones in the background look very familiar!


😉


----------



## Guidostrunk

Guidostrunk said:


> The codes on the tube.
> KB/AD =Rochester
> KB/FD= Footscray


Wanted to follow up on this post folks. I was absolutely wrong. The KB/FD tube code is actually Rochester. I got it mixed up with KB/FB , which is actually the Footscray code. 🤦‍♂️


----------



## Guidostrunk

If anyone finds a pair of KB/N , please pm me 😉


----------



## AleWi

ksorota said:


> The biggest (and I cannot stress this enough is) do not start removing capacitors until you are sure you have drained all the charge.  Their is a sig. amount of voltage and capacitance that is retained, and there are many sensitive parts on the board in close proximity to the 250v caps. That being said, on any project you should be draining the voltage from the board prior to working on it...the MJ2 just seems to hold onto its power longer than any other amp I have worked on.
> 
> The replacement caps are oversized from stock, and not all versions of the same cap will fit.  You need to get. caps that are 38mm tall or less to be able to stand up vertically.  The 38mm tall power caps are larger in diameter, so the trade off is that you need to lay 4 of the 8 down on alter. locations on the board.
> 
> edit- I also recommend not swapping tubes too quickly.  Stock or modded.  The pent up power is always looking for a way out and if you missalign. the tubes somehow, you could create an arc.


Would you be able to provide parts numbers for the capacitors that you used? I'm quite inexperienced and can't seem to find ones matching the photo.


----------



## ksorota

AleWi said:


> Would you be able to provide parts numbers for the capacitors that you used? I'm quite inexperienced and can't seem to find ones matching the photo.


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


>


That looks like a Michelangelo sketch: modding the Sistine Chapel?....


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> If anyone finds a pair of KB/N , please pm me 😉


Did you look in the “lost & found” bin? 😜🤪


----------



## jonathan c (May 8, 2021)

Wes S said:


> @jonathan c is not messing around with tubes and I love it!  A tube collector/roller after my own heart!  Nothing funner than rolling through some famous tubes, as those tubes are famous for a reason.  I am really enjoying the show!


List on the notepad application on my iPhone:


----------



## Rowethren

Guidostrunk said:


> If anyone finds a pair of KB/N , please pm me 😉


I dread to think how expensive they would be... The 1958 ones weren't exactly cheap.


----------



## TK16

jonathan c said:


> Did you look in the “lost & found” bin? 😜🤪


Unnecessary bro, all the info are on milk cartons.


----------



## TK16

This is a bit pricey but a fantastic sounding tube in my amps. LP and MJ2.  I'd guess it's NIB like in the ad and high Gm readings.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Amper...5-2b9b-4146-94e0-142c206b6fb1&redirect=mobile


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> List on the notepad application on my iPhone:


Nice list man, another great one to look for is the 6201 pinched waist triple mica d getter.


----------



## Wes S (May 9, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Finally! My CBS 7728 (1 hole) tubes have arrived lol.


Awesome!  Interesting that yours has steel pins?  I have only seen them with gold pins?  Perhaps the gold was just cleaned off?


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Nice list man, another great one to look for is the 6201 pinched waist triple mica d getter.


Thanks and thanks....


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well.... my cv4033 triples developed some noise overnight. Sounds like I'm listening to ocean waves in a sea shell. Lol


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Well.... my cv4033 triples developed some noise overnight. Sounds like I'm listening to ocean waves in a sea shell. Lol


😒🤞


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> 😒🤞


I hear you bro. I sent them an email so let's see how they handle the situation. I have a second pair coming from them I like them so much lol. I'll let you know how the second pair goes. I also inquired about a pair of Footscray and he's supposed to get back to me on Monday and let me know if he has any of those in stock. 

I'm burning in these 1 hole 7728 and man do these things rock! The soundstage is massive on these tubes and so far @Wes S  is spot on with his assessment. They're juicier and deeper in their imaging. I'll report back once I get some hours on them. So far they're 100% keepers. Lol


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> I hear you bro. I sent them an email so let's see how they handle the situation. I have a second pair coming from them I like them so much lol. I'll let you know how the second pair goes. I also inquired about a pair of Footscray and he's supposed to get back to me on Monday and let me know if he has any of those in stock.
> 
> I'm burning in these 1 hole 7728 and man do these things rock! The soundstage is massive on these tubes and so far @Wes S  is spot on with his assessment. They're juicier and deeper in their imaging. I'll report back once I get some hours on them. So far they're 100% keepers. Lol


Heck yeah bro!  Glad the 7728 1 hole are living up to my hype.    I absolutely love those tubes.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ok folks so I removed the tubes. Cleaned up the pins with some alcohol and popped them back in. No more noise lol. 
I really don't understand it beings that these tubes have new pin bases for the flying leads. Oh well it doesn't matter , they're good to go. Lol.

I'll follow up if the noise returns.


----------



## Rowethren

Guidostrunk said:


> I hear you bro. I sent them an email so let's see how they handle the situation. I have a second pair coming from them I like them so much lol. I'll let you know how the second pair goes. I also inquired about a pair of Footscray and he's supposed to get back to me on Monday and let me know if he has any of those in stock.
> 
> I'm burning in these 1 hole 7728 and man do these things rock! The soundstage is massive on these tubes and so far @Wes S  is spot on with his assessment. They're juicier and deeper in their imaging. I'll report back once I get some hours on them. So far they're 100% keepers. Lol


They sorted me out very quickly when I had a problem with my 62 double plates so hopefully they sort you out just as promptly.


----------



## jonathan c (May 9, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Ok folks so I removed the tubes. Cleaned up the pins with some alcohol and popped them back in. No more noise lol.
> I really don't understand it beings that these tubes have new pin bases for the flying leads. Oh well it doesn't matter , they're good to go. Lol.
> I'll follow up if the noise returns.


I wonder if there were trace amounts of adhesive - if used, for securing the pin bases - which caused the problem. On a related note, I use Bar Keeper’s Friend (contains oxalic acid) to clean pins then swab off with isopropyl alcohol: pins shine !


----------



## ksorota

jonathan c said:


> Bar Keeper’s Friend


Essential to have if you own a home!  

This tube rolling has gotten out of hand...head is spinning on where to go next!?!!!??!?!


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> Essential to have if you own a home!
> 
> This tube rolling has gotten out of hand...head is spinning on where to go next!?!!!??!?!


😂 you'll have some tubes to roll at your house by Friday.


----------



## TK16

ksorota said:


> Essential to have if you own a home!
> 
> This tube rolling has gotten out of hand...head is spinning on where to go next!?!!!??!?!


Mullard Mitcham 6201 60's. About $100 a pair for NIB NOS. Best $100 pair of tubes I've heard.


----------



## ksorota

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Mulla...s-Matched-pair-1960-made-/124316460789?_ul=IN
?

Def. some expensive versions of this tube.  ie (https://www.ebay.com/itm/2339347992...WoXFy-_neli0Hq62A7CXv14aa3Q3YVOYaAvmhEALw_wcB)


----------



## Wes S (May 10, 2021)

That top listing looks legit Keith.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124316460789

The second listing is a different tube.  Also, I would avoid buying from the Tube Museum seller, as they always jack up the prices.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I have a pair of 57 Footscray triples coming. There's 12 pair left at pulse.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> That's awesome and I always wanted a WA3, and now I am gonna try and find one.  I bet the Brimar are gonna sound great.  I have not found a Siemens tube that does it for me, but have not tried them all, however I do love some other tubes from Germany, and specifically from Hamburg.  Another killer tube I recommend, is a Valvo ECC81 coin base from Hamburg.


Thank you again for the ‘nod’:


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> Thank you again for the ‘nod’:


Nice!  I can't quite make out the construction on that one?  I prefer the earlier version (coin base) and square/d getters, and as they are on another level.  I absolutely love earlier Valvo, and I am currently running some ECC82 Foil D Getter bottom codes and loving every second.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Nice!  I can't quite make out the construction on that one?  I prefer the earlier version (coin base) and square/d getters, and as they are on another level.  I absolutely love earlier Valvo, and I am currently running some ECC82 Foil D Getter bottom codes and loving every second.


Here's a sweet looking pair of coin base. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/match-pair...-/383870573451?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286


----------



## Guidostrunk

Or these. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Valvo-EC...-/203274548813?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286


----------



## Wes S (May 11, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Or these.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Valvo-EC...-/203274548813?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286


Nice!  I have had my eye on those for a while now, and that is a decent price.  However, I did score this pair below a couple of days ago for $120, so deals can still be had.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Here's a sweet looking pair of coin base.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/match-pair...-/383870573451?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286


👍 Done


----------



## TK16

Just got a 2nd pair of the Mullard Mitcham 6201's for $90 free shipping for my Schiit amps after rolling them in my MJ2. Steal at that price.
https://upscaleaudio.com/collection...ts/mullard-6201-vintage-british-new-old-stock


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> Just got a 2nd pair of the Mullard Mitcham 6201's for $90 free shipping for my Schiit amps after rolling them in my MJ2. Steal at that price.
> https://upscaleaudio.com/collection...ts/mullard-6201-vintage-british-new-old-stock


👍 two pairs (k’s stash). Here we go, stealers, here we go 🎶 🎶


----------



## TK16

jonathan c said:


> 👍 two pairs (k’s stash). Here we go, stealers, here we go 🎶 🎶


These are by far the best Mullards I've tried and I heard a bunch of em. If the bottoms of the tubes burn bright for about 3 seconds, mail them to me and I will dispose of those safely into my tube boxes.


----------



## jonathan c

The 12AT7s and next-of-kin are rolling in the mail...soon to be rolling in the amps: Woo WA3, Woo WA6, Mjolnir-II. I found 12Axx to 6DE7 adapters at Xuling Audio Labs - this will enable 12AT7 use in the Woo WA6 (🤪)!! Brief assessment of WA3 (otl) using great 12AT7s: with high impedance hp (Auteur, HD600), everything is lifelike and then some. The engagement factor is surreal in its power. As for Mjolnir-II, I will post when I can pry my head loose from LCD-X, Clear, Gjallarhorn, Auteur, various Beyerdynamic, HD-600...


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> 👍 two pairs (k’s stash). Here we go, stealers, here we go 🎶 🎶


I knew you was a yinzer! Lol. Syd and the boys about to raise the cup 😂


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> I knew you was a yinzer! Lol. Syd and the boys about to raise the cup 😂


With the LP12, that makes me a Linnzer.....


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> The 12AT7s and next-of-kin are rolling in the mail...soon to be rolling in the amps: Woo WA3, Woo WA6, Mjolnir-II. I found 12Axx to 6DE7 adapters at Xuling Audio Labs - this will enable 12AT7 use in the Woo WA6 (🤪)!! Brief assessment of WA3 (otl) using great 12AT7s: with high impedance hp (Auteur, HD600), everything is lifelike and then some. The engagement factor is surreal in its power. As for Mjolnir-II, I will post when I can pry my head loose from LCD-X, Clear, Gjallarhorn, Auteur, various Beyerdynamic, HD-600...


How about them boxes? I've never seen tubes in boxes like them lol. You've heard the A2900. The Ecc801s,  and now the CV4033. I'm really anxious to hear your thoughts. 
I've heard and had all in the past. For me the CV4033 floats somewhere in between the 2. Etch vs Air. Cv4033 walks in the middle for me. Lol


----------



## jonathan c

Keeping the mailmen & mailwomen busy.....in the ‘war’ against tube amp silence, one can never have too much tube ammo....these will be conscripted for rotation duty in WA3, WA6, and Mjolnir II....


----------



## TK16

Anybody looking for 14 RCA 12AU7? 😉
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AU7A-RCA...1-26c9-45b4-84b9-2da1db4e4437&redirect=mobile


----------



## Rowethren

For those who may be interested, Pulse Tube Store just contacted me to let me know they have some rare Mullard CV4033 from 1958. I was tempted but we are just about to buy our first home so finances are a bit tight. 
https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use


----------



## Wes S

Rowethren said:


> For those who may be interested, Pulse Tube Store just contacted me to let me know they have some rare Mullard CV4033 from 1958. I was tempted but we are just about to buy our first home so finances are a bit tight.
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use


Wow!  I didn't know those existed.  Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Wes S (May 14, 2021)

@TK16 I just rolled in one of your favorites and I am about to give them a listen for the first time in my RH-5, and can't wait.

The 7316 long plate foil d getters are in the amp and warming up. . .


----------



## TK16

My gold grade 64 6201 Mitcham's just came. They tested stronger and tighter than the platinum grade pair bought 2 years ago.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> My gold grade 64 6201 Mitcham's just came. They tested stronger and tighter than the platinum grade pair bought 2 years ago.


That's kind of strange but cool!


----------



## Wes S (May 14, 2021)

@TK16  I can clearly see why you love this tube so much!  Holy crap man, this just might be the best sounding tube I have had in my RH-5 so far, and I have rolled some killer tubes (7730 Long Plate Square Getter and Hamburg ECC82 Long Plate Foil D).  System synergy is everything and this tube is just so right with my current setup.  I have used this tube in other amps, and liked it but it never blew my hair back.  Well, now that I have a better DAC and amp and can really hear what the tubes can do, I have to say the 7316 just might have become my new #1.   The holographic stage and crystal clear/forward vocals are awesome!


----------



## Wes S

Listening to some Ben Harper - Another Lonely Day, and with these 7316 it literally sounds like Ben is standing right next to me, and it is breathtaking hearing every detail in his amazing voice.  Man, I am freakin blown away!


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Listening to some Ben Harper - Another Lonely Day, and with these 7316 it literally sounds like Ben is standing right next to me, and it is breathtaking hearing every detail in his amazing voice.  Man, I am freakin blown away!


They are still number 1 overall, other ECC82, ECC81, 6201 and GEC A2900 are highly regarded IMO.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> They are still number 1 overall, other ECC82, ECC81, 6201 and GEC A2900 are highly regarded IMO.


Been listening all day and can't stop, so I totally get why they are you number 1.  They have moved up to my top 3, with the 7730 Long Plate Square Getter and Hamburg Valvo ECC82 Long Plate Foil D, and I think the 7316 sound like a perfect blend of both.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Been listening all day and can't stop, so I totally get why they are you number 1.  They have moved up to my top 3, with the 7730 Long Plate Square Getter and Hamburg Valvo ECC82 Long Plate Foil D, and I think the 7316 sound like a perfect blend of both.


That's a shame was going to offer you a trade for your 7316. Was willing to trade a 100% unused pair of LP stock tubes.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> That's a shame was going to offer you a trade for your 7316. Was willing to trade a 100% unused pair of LP stock tubes.


Dang, if only I had known that before!  I never even opened mine up when I had my LP, so I never got to hear what those things can do.   Oh well . . .


----------



## Wes S

My top 3 from the ECC82 family.

With this Trio, I can get the sound dialed in to perfection.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> My top 3 from the ECC82 family.
> 
> With this Trio, I can get the sound dialed in to perfection.


Have you tried the Mullard Mitcham 6201, if you haven't I'd recommend it and not expensive?


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Have you tried the Mullard Mitcham 6201, if you haven't I'd recommend it and not expensive?


Not yet, but I am gonna pick a few soon.  I have spent another full day with the 7316, and they are insane.  The detail is stunning.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> Have you tried the Mullard Mitcham 6201, if you haven't I'd recommend it and not expensive?


I snagged a pair of platinums. Lol


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> I snagged a pair of platinums. Lol


Nice!  I am looking forward to hearing how you like them.  I know they have some stiff competition.


----------



## Wes S (May 16, 2021)

Looking up some history on those Mullard 6201 from Upscale, and Kevin must have bought a huge stash of them, as he has been selling them since at least 2001.   I know Kevin does not mess around, but damn he must have like an entire warehouse full of just Mullard 6201's!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wow! That's crazy.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wonder whatever happened to @jonathan c ? I think all those tubes he got may have kidnapped him. 😂


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> I snagged a pair of platinums. Lol


Think you're going to love em, AC turned me on to them couple years ago. Impressive tubes at that price.
@Wes S think he's had them for sale for so long is due to the tubes not being a recognized holy grail like other tubes and not generally discussed in tube circles.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> Think you're going to love em, AC turned me on to them couple years ago. Impressive tubes at that price.
> @Wes S think he's had them for sale for so long is due to the tubes not being a recognized holy grail like other tubes and not generally discussed in tube circles.


All the years we've been rolling tubes I don't remember them ever being brought up. Still amazes me how many tubes and variants we've covered over the years. Lol


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> All the years we've been rolling tubes I don't remember them ever being brought up. Still amazes me how many tubes and variants we've covered over the years. Lol


You don't remember me bring them up the past week or a few minutes ago?!? 👍


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> You don't remember me bring them up the past week or a few minutes ago?!? 👍


😂😂😂


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Wonder whatever happened to @jonathan c ? I think all those tubes he got may have kidnapped him. 😂


Possible heart attack after turning on the MJ2 with Mullard 6201's burning bright orange for a couple seconds?


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> Possible heart attack after turning on the MJ2 with Mullard 6201's burning bright orange for a couple seconds?


😂😂😂


----------



## Guidostrunk

Got some beauties on the way. Lol.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Wonder whatever happened to @jonathan c ? I think all those tubes he got may have kidnapped him. 😂


I am still alive and rolling. I’ll be damned if I let any thermionic device (British, German, Italian, French, Japanese, U.S...) get the better of me. Trying out a variety (including the Mullard 6201) in the WA3**. I am faced with tightening / replacing / having replaced the tube sockets in the MJ-II...adapters / tubes sit rather loose.

** When the ordered adapters come from Xuling Audio Labs, I will be guiding the WA6 down the fast lane of Route 12AT7...

Items that are in transit:


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> I am still alive and rolling. I’ll be damned if I let any thermionic device (British, German, Italian, French, Japanese, U.S...) get the better of me. Trying out a variety (including the Mullard 6201) in the WA3**. I am faced with tightening / replacing / having replaced the tube sockets in the MJ-II...adapters / tubes sit rather loose.
> 
> ** When the ordered adapters come from Xuling Audio Labs, I will be guiding the WA6 down the fast lane of Route 12AT7...
> 
> Items that are in transit:


 you got me going off the rails again 😂😂😂


----------



## TK16

E180CC/7062 is also doable in the MJ2. From memory the heater current is a little lower than the MJ2 max. No pressure guys! 😂


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> E180CC/7062 is also doable in the MJ2. From memory the heater current is a little lower than the MJ2 max. No pressure guys! 😂


What is the max again? I was running a pair of 6414 which is comparable to the tubes you mentioned but stopped using them when I discovered they ran at 450ma 😬


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> What is the max again? I was running a pair of 6414 which is comparable to the tubes you mentioned but stopped using them when I discovered they ran at 450ma 😬


Not sure to be honest, that info is buried in hundreds of pages in the Lyr tube rolling thread but I think AC knows. Give him a PM.


----------



## JohnnyCanuck

6414 tube datasheet

JC


----------



## TK16

Here's an auction for 7316 LP that @Wes S was talking about recently. Got a pair of the short plate D getter 7316 in my LP and Mitcham 6201 in my MJ2.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/pair-BECKM...a-6ba7-41c3-8361-b2112e487e6f&redirect=mobile


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Here's an auction for 7316 LP that @Wes S was talking about recently. Got a pair of the short plate D getter 7316 in my LP and Mitcham 6201 in my MJ2.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/pair-BECKMAN-HOLLAND-7316-Vacuum-TubeS-HICKOK-539C-TESTED/133762811704?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=4e106482903f466e8cda577c5223c1d5&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=133762811704&itm=133762811704&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=Unbranded,pageci:ee57d9ab-b730-11eb-bc8b-123dbcd793dd|parentrq:7b42a1b91790ad33f3d6cc03fffd4478|iid:1&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&pageci=17fed0ba-6ba7-41c3-8361-b2112e487e6f&redirect=mobile


Stellar tubes no doubt! 

If you are running 12au7's, it does not get any better than the 7316 LP.


----------



## M-83

Hey all, I appreciate that there is a classifieds section to  post in, but I would like to ask here if there are any UK based users of Gumby A1 & MJ2 that would consider selling?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Footscray triple mica in and cooking. Never thought I'd own a pair of these. 😬


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Footscray triple mica in and cooking. Never thought I'd own a pair of these. 😬


They look (will sound) tremendous!


----------



## jonathan c

This looked like a low-risk proposition (for MJ-II, WA3, WA6), _ergo_ ‘done’:


----------



## M-83

Can anyone please shed some light on how you can tell between Gumby A1 Vs A2?

As a buyer looking for a Gumby A1, I do not want to make a mistake and buy an A2. 

I prefer the warmer sound of the A1. 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## ksorota

M-83 said:


> Can anyone please shed some light on how you can tell between Gumby A1 Vs A2?
> 
> As a buyer looking for a Gumby A1, I do not want to make a mistake and buy an A2.
> 
> ...




Generally the serial number on the A2 begins with a B.


----------



## M-83

ksorota said:


> Generally the serial number on the A2 begins with a B.


Okay thanks very much.

Just need to find a willing seller in the UK now.  Have a feeling it may take a while...


----------



## Guidostrunk

M-83 said:


> Okay thanks very much.
> 
> Just need to find a willing seller in the UK now.  Have a feeling it may take a while...


There's a listing on hifishark that's in Europe. Don't know if that helps. His listing is actually on here but for some reason I couldn't find a share button lol.
https://www.hifishark.com/model/schiit-mjolnir-2


----------



## Guidostrunk

Try this link?
https://www.hifishark.com/goto/21_c3617/f2e6e962-b7e4-11eb-c0c0-366436396438


----------



## M-83

Guidostrunk said:


> Try this link?
> https://www.hifishark.com/goto/21_c3617/f2e6e962-b7e4-11eb-c0c0-366436396438


Thanks.  He messaged me a while back but at the time I was only looking for UK sellers.  However due to lack of success with UK, I'm now widening my search to Europe.

I have PM'd him again to see if it's available.

Appreciate your help, thank you.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Crossed the 24hr mark on the Footscray. Man are they fantastic! I usually hold judgement on tubes until I get close to 50. Best bass response and imaging I've ever heard in a tube! They're so dimensional and real sounding. These things slam so hard! Lol.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Crossed the 24hr mark on the Footscray. Man are they fantastic! I usually hold judgement on tubes until I get close to 50. Best bass response and imaging I've ever heard in a tube! They're so dimensional and real sounding. These things slam so hard! Lol.


Bold words from a seasoned tube roller!   I am definitely going to pick up a pair of those now.  Sounds like you found the "one", and that's awesome bro!


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Crossed the 24hr mark on the Footscray. Man are they fantastic! I usually hold judgement on tubes until I get close to 50. Best bass response and imaging I've ever heard in a tube! They're so dimensional and real sounding. These things slam so hard! Lol.


Brimar or Mullard?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Bold words from a seasoned tube roller!   I am definitely going to pick up a pair of those now.  Sounds like you found the "one", and that's awesome bro!


What's crazy is the 2 mica Rochester slam harder than the 3 mica , but the 3 mica are more open with a bigger stage and better imaging. The Footscray slams harder by a good bit over the 2 mica and have all the attributes and then some of the 3 mica Rochester. 😬


----------



## Guidostrunk

Brimar. STC Footscray. Mullard is 
Mitcham and Blackburn.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Apparently thorn aei made all the Brimar Rochester 2 mica tubes. Unless there's thorn triples that I don't know about lol. I think i just opened another can of worms for myself 🤦‍♂️😂😂


----------



## ksorota

Making it real hard not to hit the buy button…


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> Making it real hard not to hit the buy button…


😂😂😂 let me send you these Footscray first and you'll see the difference. 
I'm definitely emailing Sanjiv and asking him if thorn makes a triple mica. As of right now for me the Footscray is the plum grabber 😂


----------



## Guidostrunk

I just hope that outsiders are reading these threads and catch wind of these tubes. 

There are dealers that will buy the entire stock. Wait a month and sell them at double the price. *cough Brent. Lol


----------



## ksorota (May 18, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> There are dealers that will buy the entire stock. Wait a month and sell them at double the price.



This is my fear!

Can always have a tube battle and offset the cost by selling the losers.


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> This is my fear!
> 
> Can always have a tube battle and offset the cost by selling the losers.


The good thing about it is Keith. Those losers will win over others. In the end we all win because there will be a time where they're non existent. 
These Brimar tubes have gotten overlooked for years.  @ThurstonX was the person who fed me the drugs 😂😂

He hasn't posted in a few years. Fantastic person! Pretty sad to see him not pop up anymore.


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> Making it real hard not to hit the buy button…


Close your eyes, make a wish, then press...


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> This is my fear!
> 
> Can always have a tube battle and offset the cost by selling the losers.


In a war, it is not the quantity of ammo that counts, it is the marksmanship in using the ammo at hand.....each purchase, roll, retention, sale of tube(s) should add to your enjoyment.....


----------



## jonathan c

While not in the MJ-II yet, these are headed there...and are doing yeoman service in the meantime...


----------



## Guidostrunk

For anyone interested in tube rolling and investing the dough. I highly recommend getting the mod first. The mod sends the mj2 through the roof! It's ridiculous how good this amp sounds. The mod was the most dramatic change ever. The effortlessness is astounding. Makes me drool 😪 .... 😂


----------



## Rowethren (May 19, 2021)

I would love to get the mod done but not sure who would do it in the UK. I certainly don't trust my own soldering skills enough to attempt it.

Glad to hear the new tubes are working out though. It sounds like they would be too bassy for my ZMF VC as the triple micas are already pretty strong in that department. (At least that is what I am telling myself )


----------



## TK16 (May 19, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> While not in the MJ-II yet, these are headed there...and are doing yeoman service in the meantime...


You mind posting the testing numbers on the box on those "Kevin's stash" 6201. I'll post my gold testing numbers on the box and my own numbers on the gold and my numbers on the platinum? I don't have the boxes any longer on the platinum pair. Curious as to seeing the testing numbers of the various grade tubes.

Gold grade box 5,500-6,200 5,700-6,500 my tester 4,800-5,250 5,000-5,400
Platinum my tester 5,200-4,820 5,200-4,500


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> You mind posting the testing numbers on the box on those "Kevin's stash" 6201. I'll post my gold testing numbers on the box and my own numbers on the gold and my numbers on the platinum? I don't have the boxes any longer on the platinum pair. Curious as to seeing the testing numbers of the various grade tubes.
> 
> Gold grade box 5,500-6,200 5,700-6,500 my tester 4,800-5,250 5,000-5,400
> Platinum my tester 5,200-4,820 5,200-4,500


Here they are for the Mullard 6201s currently in the WA3:


----------



## Guidostrunk

Here's my testing numbers for Platinum Mitcham 6201.


----------



## jonathan c (May 19, 2021)

Well, I ramped up the ‘tubethon’ with these for the MJ-II, WA3, WA6....._excited!_


----------



## ksorota

jonathan c said:


> Well, I ramped up the ‘tubethon’ with these for the MJ-II, WA3, WA6....._excited!_



I did the same, lol


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk, ksorota, jonathan c:  the Brimar three musketubers...? All for tubes & tubes for all?...


----------



## Guidostrunk

One thing that I noticed right away with the Mullard 6201 is the construction of that tube. It's built like a 12au7 on a smaller scale. Like a micro version of it. Lol. 

Haven't popped them in yet. These Footscray are killing me right now. Over the 50 hour mark and man are these things good! The bass and imaging are just ridiculous. I'm on some EDM stuff right now and it's so intense. 

These tubes are extremely transparent. Macro , micro, and overall detail retrieval is just bonkers! Dynamics monsters! I can't wait to get @ksorota and @jonathan c  verdict on these. They are amazing tubes.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> One thing that I noticed right away with the Mullard 6201 is the construction of that tube. It's built like a 12au7 on a smaller scale. Like a micro version of it. Lol.
> 
> Haven't popped them in yet. These Footscray are killing me right now. Over the 50 hour mark and man are these things good! The bass and imaging are just ridiculous. I'm on some EDM stuff right now and it's so intense.
> 
> These tubes are extremely transparent. Macro , micro, and overall detail retrieval is just bonkers! Dynamics monsters! I can't wait to get @ksorota and @jonathan c  verdict on these. They are amazing tubes.


Interested in your opinion on those 6201.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I definitely have to take a stab at these. You don't see the triples that often. Lol.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-TELEFUN...-/402856527101?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286


----------



## Guidostrunk

Never mind. They're tele ecc801s 😂


----------



## Guidostrunk

Nothing wrong with the tele ecc801s. They're great tubes.


----------



## jonathan c

I have the MJ-II back in action. It took me a while to ‘tighten’ the metal clasps inside the holes of the ceramic part of the tube sockets. You all know the drill: drain capacitors, etc. This was my first go at it. Anyway, the Mullard 6201s are in. Early impressions: tremendous dynamic range, great detail in soft and in thunderous passages. Hall / studio ambience is conveyed in unnervingly dramatic / real fashion. Bass is just how I like it: deep, fulsome, sinewy and forceful - not overbearing. Midrange / vocals are realistic, what else to say (especially with R&B in my vinyl/CD library). Treble is open, unconstrained, and effortless. The totality or _gestalt_ brings sheer enjoyment and, to my ears, lacks nothing. The MJ-II / Mullard 6201 / Kennerton Gjallarhorn JM Edition combination is the proverbial force of nature. To better this seems a modern-day labour of Hercules. [I will have thoughts on the Mullard 6201s vs Telefunken ECC801s vs GEC A2900 etc; but with tubes of this quality, I want to savour each before the tube “cage fight”].

To repeat what Guidostrunk has said: if you own a MJ-II, swap out the capacitors or run to a fellow Head-Fier with that capability. The result is a _musically_ state-of-the-art headphone amplifier with the right tubes and without the ionospheric price.


----------



## Rowethren

Showoffs! I am still wondering who can do it in the UK lol.


----------



## G0rt

My quad of wire lead CV4033 arrived from Spain, and they're from the same batch as the quad I have from TubeMonger.

All are KB/AD, 3E1/3880 date code, so Thorn-AEI Rochester, 3rd week May 1961.

Just to the left of the KB/AD mark is another date code, under a Tiwaz rune. The new set is marked SK, the other is SL. 

I'd normally read that as October and November of 1962, per Steve Myciunka's document, not very consistent with the 3E1.

Two manufacturing dates?


----------



## M-83

ksorota said:


> Found some time today!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is there anyone known on Head-Fi based within the UK that is capable of carrying out this mod?

I don't have an MJ2 just yet but when I do I would love to do this.  I'm not experienced in electrics/soldering etc myself so would not want to risk making mistakes.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Never mind. They're tele ecc801s 😂


So what gave that away? The internal TF construction or the ad title? 😄


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> So what gave that away? The internal TF construction or the ad title? 😄


Sometimes that dispensary stuff gets the best of me 😂😂😂


----------



## jonathan c

In opening up and reassembling the MJ-II, I noticed that the metal ‘bodywork’ is somewhat resonant. I unscrewed and put away the stock feet and placed the MJ-II on larger / taller feet from Douk Audio (Nobsound). I like the look, more air under the MJ-II, greater surface area of contact with the top of the feet, much more dampening of the ‘bodywork’. I cannot say that I hear a difference but I am reassured that a source of vibration, interference with sound, is eliminated - placebo effect? 🤷🏻‍♂️😌


----------



## ksorota

jonathan c said:


> In opening up and reassembling the MJ-II, I noticed that the metal ‘bodywork’ is somewhat resonant. I unscrewed and put away the stock feet and placed the MJ-II on larger / taller feet from Douk Audio (Nobsound). I like the look, more air under the MJ-II, greater surface area of contact with the top of the feet, much more dampening of the ‘bodywork’. I cannot say that I hear a difference but I am reassured that a source of vibration, interference with sound, is eliminated - placebo effect? 🤷🏻‍♂️😌


now you just need to paint it black! 

Looks good on the taller feet.  Plus it will be good for cooling since the bottom plate is essentially a big heat sink (you think the top gets hot!)


----------



## jonathan c

The nicest tube packaging that I have encountered (Telefunken ECC801S):


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well... over the 75 hour mark on the Footscray and man I love these things. 


With that said.
Everybody knows the rules. One bite..... um yeah, time to pop in the Mullard 6201 and give em a whirl. Lol. And order up a pizza 😂


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Well... over the 75 hour mark on the Footscray and man I love these things.
> 
> 
> With that said.
> Everybody knows the rules. One bite..... um yeah, time to pop in the Mullard 6201 and give em a whirl. Lol. And order up a pizza 😂


Was able to order a pizza myself going gangsta and buying the gold grade 6201.


----------



## TK16

Might want to shoot this guy an offer before bidding starts or bid. Fantastic sounding tubes. Bought from this seller before.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips...b-20b5-4987-8f97-9cd0c1b38430&redirect=mobile


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well.... I'm over the 24 hour mark cooking the 6201. I'm still hoping these open up a good bit more. I really don't know what the sound sig is supposed to be. They sound like a Blackburn to me at this point. Smooth, laid-back,  great dimensional presence, but the dynamics, bass extension, slam/impact,  and micro detail aren't there yet. The midrange is excellent! Just looking for that explosive/ edge of your seat apparence. 
Still a good ways to go. A lot of tubes don't show their potential upwards of 100 hours.


----------



## Guidostrunk

What a fantastic live recording. 
https://tidal.com/album/57385461


----------



## Guidostrunk

Or some of this guy. I'm a funk freak lol. 
https://tidal.com/track/65424659


----------



## Guidostrunk

Last tune I promise 😂
https://tidal.com/track/5027020


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Or some of this guy. I'm a funk freak lol.
> https://tidal.com/track/65424659


If you like funk (who the funk wouldn’t), check these folks, from the 70s. I have vinyl + CD and saw them at MSG back then👍👍:


----------



## Guidostrunk

Get up to get down! 😂😂😂 love them! 
Not too many know about Cameo. There's no Word Up here. Lol.
https://tidal.com/track/80228964


----------



## Guidostrunk (May 22, 2021)

Tidal link is schiit! It's not singling out the song.


----------



## Guidostrunk




----------



## Guidostrunk

This dude is great!


----------



## jonathan c

If you want to hear great stop n start brass with syncho singing, put this on the MJ-II with the Mullard 6201s:


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Well.... I'm over the 24 hour mark cooking the 6201. I'm still hoping these open up a good bit more. I really don't know what the sound sig is supposed to be. They sound like a Blackburn to me at this point. Smooth, laid-back,  great dimensional presence, but the dynamics, bass extension, slam/impact,  and micro detail aren't there yet. The midrange is excellent! Just looking for that explosive/ edge of your seat apparence.
> Still a good ways to go. A lot of tubes don't show their potential upwards of 100 hours.


I'd give it 100 hours before final judgment I finished 7 full days of burn in yesterday. If you don't like it you can easily sell it for what you paid for it. Sound signature is similar to the Hamburg 6201 PW. Holographic, with a tilt to Mullard sound signature with tighter deeper bass and a more extended high end. Perhaps you should of gotten Gold grade like I did? 😄


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> I'd give it 100 hours before final judgment I finished 7 full days of burn in yesterday. If you don't like it you can easily sell it for what you paid for it. Sound signature is similar to the Hamburg 6201 PW. Holographic, with a tilt to Mullard sound signature with tighter deeper bass and a more extended high end. Perhaps you should of gotten Gold grade like I did? 😄


That's the rule of thumb 😂
Yeah I definitely won't do any serious judging yet. They sound like they just need to cross the Rubicon lol. They're still cooking and when I get home from work later I'll be back at it. Them Russian tubes were the worst for burn in which taught me a valuable lesson on burn in. 100+ lol. 

I do like what they're doing. You're right about the sound sig. They have a deep center image like the Hamburgs and liquid like a Blackburn.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> That's the rule of thumb 😂
> Yeah I definitely won't do any serious judging yet. They sound like they just need to cross the Rubicon lol. They're still cooking and when I get home from work later I'll be back at it. Them Russian tubes were the worst for burn in which taught me a valuable lesson on burn in. 100+ lol.
> 
> I do like what they're doing. You're right about the sound sig. They have a deep center image like the Hamburgs and liquid like a Blackburn.


I find these better than almost any UK tube, I rank the GEC A2900 very high too with 2 very different sound signatures. Russian tubes needed by far the longest time to burn in. I estimate 200 hours from memory. I'll expect hourly updates when you get home. 🤣


----------



## M-83

Well chaps, I've managed to conclude a deal on a Gumby & MJ2 from a fellow Head-Fier and it should ship on Tuesday.  Very excited!


----------



## M-83 (May 22, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> One thing that I noticed right away with the Mullard 6201 is the construction of that tube. It's built like a 12au7 on a smaller scale. Like a micro version of it. Lol.
> 
> Haven't popped them in yet. These Footscray are killing me right now. Over the 50 hour mark and man are these things good! The bass and imaging are just ridiculous. I'm on some EDM stuff right now and it's so intense.
> 
> These tubes are extremely transparent. Macro , micro, and overall detail retrieval is just bonkers! Dynamics monsters! I can't wait to get @ksorota and @jonathan c  verdict on these. They are amazing tubes.


The Footscray triple mica sounds as though it will be a tube I would like.  I love EDM & complex electronica mostly, but enjoy all sorts of music.

A few years ago Dan Clark recommended Tungsram 6922's as being great for EDM. I don't have a pair with me anymore so can't give an accurate description.

I currently use Amperex ECC88 and they have lots of detail, highs are present but slightly rolled off, mids are slightly lush and bass slams with impact.  A fantastic all-rounder.

Currently listening to this and it sounds awesome even with Lyr 2 & Mimby - https://music.amazon.co.uk/albums/B...00BRMF7YE&ref=dm_sh_d78c-0e18-bab4-103a-7eba4


----------



## M-83

For those that enjoy EDM:


----------



## Guidostrunk

Approaching the 50 hour mark on the Mullard 6201 and they are opening up nicely. Imaging has cleaned up and the bass hits pretty hard. They have all the attributes of the Hamburg 6201 but a more liquid approach like a Blackburn tube. They're very smooth with great vertical and deep dimension. 

These are definitely keeper tubes. Will report back on these after 100 hours. Fingers crossed they get a little more dynamic and hone in on more detail. They do sound a hell of a lot better than yesterday lol. Fantastic tube and a steal at the price.


----------



## M-83 (May 23, 2021)

ksorota said:


> Generally the serial number on the A2 begins with a B.


Turns out the serial number for the used Gumby over bought starts with "B6"

I'm assuming it's an A2, though I'm hoping will sound great regardless even if I was aiming for an A1.

It does have gen 5 usb though which is a plus.  I may upgrade it to Unison usb.


----------



## ksorota

M-83 said:


> It does have gen 5 usb though which is a plus. I may upgrade it to Unison usb.



Best bet is to buy a pi2AES and use spdif…best transport i have used honestly.


----------



## M-83

ksorota said:


> Best bet is to buy a pi2AES and use spdif…best transport i have used honestly.


Ok thanks for the head-up.  Will look into this.


----------



## M-83

ksorota said:


> Best bet is to buy a pi2AES and use spdif…best transport i have used honestly.


Do you have to use Roon?  I stream via Amazon Music HD on my desktop pc, but could potentially stream on iPhone instead.


----------



## TK16

Think I got 2 pairs of Brimar square getter ECC82 from this seller. He has 3 EC k61 Heerlen 55's on auction. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-3-x...0-800e-40ef-87bd-3d8cddb5150a&redirect=mobile


----------



## ksorota

M-83 said:


> Do you have to use Roon?  I stream via Amazon Music HD on my desktop pc, but could potentially stream on iPhone instead.


No, you do not need Roon.  I stream via my Mac or using Volumnio with Tidal, Spotify or Apple music.  Works flawlessly and inegrates nicely with the phone or MAC.


----------



## M-83

ksorota said:


> No, you do not need Roon.  I stream via my Mac or using Volumnio with Tidal, Spotify or Apple music.  Works flawlessly and inegrates nicely with the phone or MAC.


Okay interesting. I need to read up more. I use Amazon music so need to understand how it all works.


----------



## ksorota

I swear, I need a second MJ2 just to keep up with all these tube options and to compare.  I was prepared for the single hole 7728 to be the same as the 2 hole 7728...but instead I am grappling with the fact that two of the top options are different enough that they can be compared and the single hole somehow is better.  Its better on a feeling type level...everything just feels more alive.  

The dilemma now is that based on other reviews (TK, Guido, Wes, Jona.C.) they will be equalled/bested by the tubes about to go into the amp (CV4033), and a set that are on the way (footscrays). 

Tonight I hope to find some time for the CVs.  Might need to call into work tomorrow if the night goes as I think it will


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> I swear, I need a second MJ2 just to keep up with all these tube options and to compare.  I was prepared for the single hole 7728 to be the same as the 2 hole 7728...but instead I am grappling with the fact that two of the top options are different enough that they can be compared and the single hole somehow is better.  Its better on a feeling type level...everything just feels more alive.
> 
> The dilemma now is that based on other reviews (TK, Guido, Wes, Jona.C.) they will be equalled/bested by the tubes about to go into the amp (CV4033), and a set that are on the way (footscrays).
> 
> Tonight I hope to find some time for the CVs.  Might need to call into work tomorrow if the night goes as I think it will


😂😂😂 Have fun man!


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> I swear, I need a second MJ2 just to keep up with all these tube options and to compare.  I was prepared for the single hole 7728 to be the same as the 2 hole 7728...but instead I am grappling with the fact that two of the top options are different enough that they can be compared and the single hole somehow is better.  Its better on a feeling type level...everything just feels more alive.
> 
> The dilemma now is that based on other reviews (TK, Guido, Wes, Jona.C.) they will be equalled/bested by the tubes about to go into the amp (CV4033), and a set that are on the way (footscrays).
> 
> Tonight I hope to find some time for the CVs.  Might need to call into work tomorrow if the night goes as I think it will


In the spirit of Mike Oldfield, it’s ‘Tubular Hell’...the agony of choice...in any event, to paraphrase Mae West: “It’s not the tubes in your life but the life in your tubes” [that matter]...


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> I swear, I need a second MJ2 just to keep up with all these tube options and to compare....


My qualm can be entitled, in Broadway fashion, “A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Mjolnir”....My Woo WA3 (o/t/l) and Woo WA6 (o/t/c) are great testing grounds for the “ultra” 12AT7s that are rolling in _chez moi_. Adapters are used for these exercises. When the tubes _do_ get to the MJ-II, I will have a robust but not perfect memory of their “Woo” sound with which to compare. Mullard gold pin 6201s are on duty below:


----------



## ksorota

Just a note.  The single hole 7728's def. dig deeper and layer better.  Really grab you by the balls and squeeze!  I can see why you prefer them over the two hole @Wes S


----------



## Guidostrunk (May 23, 2021)

You're hearing it like Wes and I Keith. They are definitely on another tier.


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> My qualm can be entitled, in Broadway fashion, “A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Mjolnir”....My Woo WA3 (o/t/l) and Woo WA6 (o/t/c) are great testing grounds for the “ultra” 12AT7s that are rolling in _chez moi_. Adapters are used for these exercises. When the tubes _do_ get to the MJ-II, I will have a robust but not perfect memory of their “Woo” sound with which to compare. Mullard gold pin 6201s are on duty below:


You literally have a portable furnace😂


----------



## ksorota

Thats one of the things I like about the MJ1...you can leave it on all the time and its not much hotter than 80 degrees.  Tubes be hot!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> My qualm can be entitled, in Broadway fashion, “A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Mjolnir”....My Woo WA3 (o/t/l) and Woo WA6 (o/t/c) are great testing grounds for the “ultra” 12AT7s that are rolling in _chez moi_. Adapters are used for these exercises. When the tubes _do_ get to the MJ-II, I will have a robust but not perfect memory of their “Woo” sound with which to compare. Mullard gold pin 6201s are on duty below:


What rectifier tubes are you using? My 2 favorites when I  had that amp was the Cossor U51 and Western Electric 422a.


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> My qualm can be entitled, in Broadway fashion, “A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Mjolnir”....My Woo WA3 (o/t/l) and Woo WA6 (o/t/c) are great testing grounds for the “ultra” 12AT7s that are rolling in _chez moi_. Adapters are used for these exercises. When the tubes _do_ get to the MJ-II, I will have a robust but not perfect memory of their “Woo” sound with which to compare. Mullard gold pin 6201s are on duty below:


Before these became ridiculously priced. They were my favorite tube in the WA6  with the U51. Used to be able to get a pair for around $450. 🤯
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-NOS-Mu...-/284282006967?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yep. On adapters lol.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> What rectifier tubes are you using? My 2 favorites when I  had that amp was the Cossor U51 and Western Electric 422a.


In the WA6 is a IEC Mullard GZ34. The WA3 uses a power tube: here it is the GEC CV5008 (sometimes aka CV2984).


----------



## Guidostrunk

The mullard gz34 is a fantastic little rectifier. I spent 6 months with that tube before I went off the rails 😂. 

A sleeper rectifier is the Brimar 5r4gy. It's really close to the big dogs and a fraction of the price. You're talking maybe that last 10% you squeeze out buying the 181 and 422a. 
Doing it now I'd probably roll with the gz34 or Brimar 5r4gy. They both get you to top level of sound.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Sorry for derailing. I just love tubes. 😂


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> The mullard gz34 is a fantastic little rectifier. I spent 6 months with that tube before I went off the rails 😂.
> 
> A sleeper rectifier is the Brimar 5r4gy. It's really close to the big dogs and a fraction of the price. You're talking maybe that last 10% you squeeze out buying the 181 and 422a.
> Doing it now I'd probably roll with the gz34 or Brimar 5r4gy. They both get you to top level of sound.


I have read about the 5R4GY....it looks worthwhile....I am slowly building my GZ34 inventory (up to three)....


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Sorry for derailing. I just love tubes. 😂


And they love us back (with clean pins etc.)


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> I have read about the 5R4GY....it looks worthwhile....I am slowly building my GZ34 inventory (up to three)....


@Dubstep Girl  has the absolute best rectifier thread on the net regarding those particular rectifiers.
Definitely worth the read.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAxAC&usg=AOvVaw3kex2mZ7Y1YZfXhU09fazu


----------



## TK16

I lost a 7316 short plate D getter 59. Looking for a single roughly NOS testing. If anyone has 1 to sell PM me.
😢


----------



## Wes S (May 24, 2021)

ksorota said:


> I swear, I need a second MJ2 just to keep up with all these tube options and to compare.  I was prepared for the single hole 7728 to be the same as the 2 hole 7728...but instead I am grappling with the fact that two of the top options are different enough that they can be compared and the single hole somehow is better.  Its better on a feeling type level...everything just feels more alive.
> 
> The dilemma now is that based on other reviews (TK, Guido, Wes, Jona.C.) they will be equalled/bested by the tubes about to go into the amp (CV4033), and a set that are on the way (footscrays).
> 
> Tonight I hope to find some time for the CVs.  Might need to call into work tomorrow if the night goes as I think it will


You are hearing the difference between the 2 different 7728's just as I am.  I much prefer the 1 hole, as it just sounds more real and lifelike.  The 7728 1 hole is currently in my Pendant SE and sounds incredible, and I sold the 2 hole version.  I absolutely the 7728 (1 hole) tube, and it just does everything so right with my ZMF'S.


----------



## jonathan c

The Whyteleafes are in the WA3 oven for a while ——> ultimate destination is MJ-II...


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> The Whyteleafes are in the WA3 oven for a while ——> ultimate destination is MJ-II...


I have to get a pair of those lol. It could be an eternity before they appear again once his stash is gone. Totally forgot about the email I got.


----------



## jonathan c

I snuck a listen to the CV4033 KB/DC (Whyteleafe) + GEC CV5008 (I have the WA3 playing CD repeat to burn in everything). _First_ impressions: the Whytes, to use a pugilistic analogy, combine the attack and fury of Mike Tyson with the finesse and placement of Muhammad Ali...🥊 😭🤕 —> 🤓 (me).


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> I snuck a listen to the CV4033 KB/DC (Whyteleafe) + GEC CV5008 (I have the WA3 playing CD repeat to burn in everything). _First_ impressions: the Whytes, to use a pugilistic analogy, combine the attack and fury of Mike Tyson with the finesse and placement of Muhammad Ali...🥊 😭🤕 —> 🤓 (me).


😂😂😂


----------



## Rowethren

So have we come to a conclusion as to which are the best CV4033 yet?


----------



## Wes S

Rowethren said:


> So have we come to a conclusion as to which are the best CV4033 yet?


The million dollar question!    Something tells me it's the 57' Triple Mica from Footscray, but I could be wrong.


----------



## Guidostrunk

So..... of course before I get a pair of those Whyteleafe tubes I had to send Sanjiv an email asking if there's a triple mica version and if he has any to part with. 

Just waiting for his response. 😂


----------



## jonathan c

With the Whyteleafes (CV4033 KB/DC Mullard), _YOU ARE THERE!....studio or live:_


----------



## Wes S (May 25, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> With the Whyteleafes (CV4033 KB/DC Mullard), _YOU ARE THERE!....studio or live:_


So, would you say they are more transparent than the Brimar CV4033?


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> So, would you say they are more transparent than the Brimar CV4033?


I say that the Whyteleafes are more “transparent” than the Brimar CV4033 in a specific way. Both relay the same tremendous level of _detail_; the Whyteleafes convey more _energy_ at that level of detail. This energy is different from volume: it is force, heft. I feel that the Whyteleafes, then, are experientially more lifelike than the Brimar CV4033. I will happily live with both. 

Related to all this, a colossal thank you @Wes S and @Guidostrunk for pointing me to route 12AT7 in my headphone audio travels. At least so far, the best 12AT7 type tubes sonically eclipse the best 6922 type tubes.


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> I say that the Whyteleafes are more “transparent” than the Brimar CV4033 in a specific way. Both relay the same tremendous level of _detail_; the Whyteleafes convey more _energy_ at that level of detail. This energy is different from volume: it is force, heft. I feel that the Whyteleafes, then, are experientially more lifelike than the Brimar CV4033. I will happily live with both.
> 
> Related to all this, a colossal thank you @Wes S and @Guidostrunk for pointing me to route 12AT7 in my headphone audio travels. At least so far, the best 12AT7 type tubes sonically eclipse the best 6922 type tubes.


Thanks for the info bro!  Looks like I am going with the Mullard.


----------



## ksorota

Brimar Footscray CV4033s on the delivery truck for today.  The battle for supremacy is going to ruin my productivity this week!


----------



## Wes S (May 25, 2021)

Double post corrected, from post below.  Sorry.


----------



## Wes S (May 25, 2021)

ksorota said:


> Brimar Footscray CV4033s on the delivery truck for today.  The battle for supremacy is going to ruin my productivity this week!


Nice man!  I am Iooking forward to your thoughts on that one compared to the 7728 1 hole.  So far, I have not found a tube to dethrone the 7728.  The 7728's don't really jump out at you on first listen, but the longer I listen the more they suck me in, and once my brain is able to adjust, the headphones disappear and I am "there".


----------



## ksorota

Wes S said:


> Nice man!  I am Iooking forward to your thoughts on that one compared to the 7728 1 hole.  So far, I have not found a tube to dethrone the 7728.  The 7728's don't really jump out at you on first listen, but the longer I listen the more they suck me in, and once my brain is able to adjust, the headphones disappear and I am "there".



I agree, so far the 7728 1 holes are the best I have heard.  They are easily besting the triple mica CV4033 that Sam sent me.  Its just that intangible that the 7728 projects into and around you that really makes them engaging!


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> I say that the Whyteleafes are more “transparent” than the Brimar CV4033 in a specific way. Both relay the same tremendous level of _detail_; the Whyteleafes convey more _energy_ at that level of detail. This energy is different from volume: it is force, heft. I feel that the Whyteleafes, then, are experientially more lifelike than the Brimar CV4033. I will happily live with both.
> 
> Related to all this, a colossal thank you @Wes S and @Guidostrunk for pointing me to route 12AT7 in my headphone audio travels. At least so far, the best 12AT7 type tubes sonically eclipse the best 6922 type tubes.


Have you gotten your Footscray yet? Really curious if you compared them yet to Whyteleafe. Still waiting for Sanjiv to respond about triple Whyteleafe lol


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Have you gotten your Footscray yet? Really curious if you compared them yet to Whyteleafe. Still waiting for Sanjiv to respond about triple Whyteleafe lol


I know nothing about these ECC81 variants. Is there a thread explaining the various variants and their sound sigs bro?


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> I agree, so far the 7728 1 holes are the best I have heard.  They are easily besting the triple mica CV4033 that Sam sent me.  Its just that intangible that the 7728 projects into and around you that really makes them engaging!


The thing thats crazy is I never imagined the Footscray to beat the Rochester tubes as bad as they do. The triple construction on both is extremely similar but the Footscray are really on another level compared to Rochester. Within 2 hours on Footscray I knew they were better and they were so far from being burnt in. Lol.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> I know nothing about these ECC81 variants. Is there a thread explaining the various variants and their sound sigs bro?


There really isn't. Like I mentioned before , my foray into these tubes was @ThurstonX when he sent me a pair long ago.


----------



## Guidostrunk

It's been a new discovery now.


----------



## Wes S

The battle of the week!

Footscray CV4033 Triple Mica vs. 7728 1 Hole

@ksorota I am going to be anxiously waiting to hear your thoughts.  I think I know what Sam's choice would be, and I can't wait to see what yours is too.


----------



## Rowethren

Guidostrunk said:


> The thing thats crazy is I never imagined the Footscray to beat the Rochester tubes as bad as they do. The triple construction on both is extremely similar but the Footscray are really on another level compared to Rochester. Within 2 hours on Footscray I knew they were better and they were so far from being burnt in. Lol.


Don't rub it in! My poor Rochester triple micas look awful sad right now...


----------



## Rowethren

On a different note has anyone tried these? They certainly look interesting. 

https://pulsetubestore.com/products/cv3986


----------



## Wes S

Rowethren said:


> On a different note has anyone tried these? They certainly look interesting.
> 
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products/cv3986


I know someone who bought a set, and he knows tubes and said they were decent but nothing special.  However, I have not heard them myself.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> The battle of the week!
> 
> Footscray CV4033 Triple Mica vs. 7728 1 Hole
> 
> @ksorota I am going to be anxiously waiting to hear your thoughts.  I think I know what Sam's choice would be, and I can't wait to see what yours is too.


To me I put them equal but they do things differently. It's preference at the end of the day. For me the cv4033 Footscray carve out a more intricate picture throughout the stage. There's nuances that I don't completely hear with the 7728 1 hole that I do with the Footscray.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Rowethren said:


> Don't rub it in! My poor Rochester triple micas look awful sad right now...


Don't worry bro. The Rochester tubes are still fantastic.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> To me I put them equal but they do things differently. It's preference at the end of the day. For me the cv4033 Footscray carve out a more intricate picture throughout the stage. There's nuances that I don't completely hear with the 7728 1 hole that I do with the Footscray.


Awesome!  I hear so many little nuances with the 7728 I can't imagine more and now I really want the Footscray.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> I know nothing about these ECC81 variants. Is there a thread explaining the various variants and their sound sigs bro?


As soon as I get my A2900 in TK. I'll send you the 2 mica Rochester and 3 mica Footscray to try.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> As soon as I get my A2900 in TK. I'll send you the 2 mica Rochester and 3 mica Footscray to try.


I love how gracious you are with your tubes bro!  I would have never discovered the 7730, and 7728, if it was not for you letting me try your 7730's.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Have you gotten your Footscray yet? Really curious if you compared them yet to Whyteleafe. Still waiting for Sanjiv to respond about triple Whyteleafe lol


I have the Footscray...not in the MJ-II yet... the Whyteleafes want to declare “squatters’ rights”...I don’t have the heart or ears to evict them from the MJ-II...yet...


----------



## Guidostrunk

If I was to use an analogy I would describe the difference between the 7728 1 hole and Footscray as:

7728 = maybe 2 or 3 rows back from the performance where you get an all encompassing feel. You can hear more wall reverb and things like that.

Footscray cv4033 = at the stage. Less encompassing but I can hear and feel the fingers plucking strings. The dry mouth crackling right before the vocal starts. The drummers foot feels like he's pounding your chest with the pedal. 


That pretty much sums up my thoughts on how I'm hearing the 2. The soundstage isn't as massive on the Footscray as the 7728 but it's extremely holographic and visceral. 

I do love both tubes. Hell I love all the tubes 😂😂😂


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> I love how gracious you are with your tubes bro!  I would have never discovered the 7730, and 7728, if it was not for you letting me try your 7730's.


We used to do it all the time man. Really saves some dough because you bypass all the mediocre stuff lol.


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> I have the Footscray...not in the MJ-II yet... the Whyteleafes want to declare “squatters’ rights”...I don’t have the heart or ears to evict them from the MJ-II...yet...


I'm anxiously waiting lol. I think I'm gonna just buy a pair of those Whyteleafe man. I'm trying to wait for Sanjiv response but it's killing me 😂


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I love how gracious you are with your tubes bro!  I would have never discovered the 7730, and 7728, if it was not for you letting me try your 7730's.


I actually replace everything with GE tubes and people are none the wiser.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> As soon as I get my A2900 in TK. I'll send you the 2 mica Rochester and 3 mica Footscray to try.


Thanks bro! Give the A2900 a good burn in, they are fantastic tubes rolled in frequently but they can be overbearing in the treble for me after a while.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> Thanks bro! Give the A2900 a good burn in, they are fantastic tubes rolled in frequently but they can be overbearing in the treble for me after a while.


That was my issue with them in the past. They're extremely dynamic with no let up lol


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm anxiously waiting lol. I think I'm gonna just buy a pair of those Whyteleafe man. I'm trying to wait for Sanjiv response but it's killing me 😂


I cannot tell if Pulse has triple mica Whyteleafes. I _did_ make a second purchase of the Whyteleafes. They really are something else! (a Cannonball Adderley album title). As you inferred, they may not make it our way anytime soon or again...


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> If I was to use an analogy I would describe the difference between the 7728 1 hole and Footscray as:
> 
> 7728 = maybe 2 or 3 rows back from the performance where you get an all encompassing feel. You can hear more wall reverb and things like that.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the elaboration!  Interestingly, I hear all those exact nuances with my 7728's.  So, I am wondering if those Footscray might be too much for my system synergy.  I am gonna try my Rochester Triple Mica tonight, and see how that goes.  If I like what I am hearing, I will definitely be getting the Footscray.


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> I cannot tell if Pulse has triple mica Whyteleafes. I _did_ make a second purchase of the Whyteleafes. They really are something else! (a Cannonball Adderley album title). As you inferred, they may not make it our way anytime soon or again...


I asked Sanjiv. Waiting for him to reply. I don't think mullard made a triple mica. Only brimar. Doesn't hurt to ask though lol.


----------



## TK16

Excellent seller. 3 1956 k61 Heerlen. 
Fantastic tubes.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Excellen...c-f84d-4d0f-8ef2-c2481e8e8905&redirect=mobile


----------



## Guidostrunk

No Whyteleafe triple mica 😞 
That's ok. Whyteleafes ordered lol.


----------



## jonathan c

Rowethren said:


> Don't rub it in! My poor Rochester triple micas look awful sad right now...


At least they don’t look (or sound) like GE 6DJ8s....


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> No Whyteleafe triple mica 😞
> That's ok. Whyteleafes ordered lol.


You will be in tubephoria....and I am impressed with Pulse Tube Store delivery....far better than the Llama....


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> You will be in tubephoria....and I am impressed with Pulse Tube Store delivery....far better than the Llama....


They are spectacular with service! Sanjiv said he has a batch of tubes but didn't elaborate what they are but said they'll be available in a month or so once he gets through them. Said he'll send me a pair try and give him my honest opinion on them. 
I'm going to ask him if it'll be ok to do a loaner tour. Each person spend a week or two with them. 
Have no clue about the tubes. I'll try and pry it out of him 😂.


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Excellen...oil-D-getter-7316-12au7-tube-124/265173232413


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Excellen...oil-D-getter-7316-12au7-tube-124/265173232413


A killer tube and a great dealer!  If I did not have 2 pairs, I would be all over this one.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Wes S said:
> 
> 
> > A killer tube and a great dealer!  If I did not have 2 pairs, I would be all over this one.
> ...


----------



## Wes S

Me too, and looks like I have some competition.


----------



## jonathan c

As the 12AT7 collection grows:


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> As the 12AT7 collection grows:


Looks like you're ready for a pelican pluck foam case 😂. I just ordered one to store mine.


----------



## jonathan c

That was just for the 12AT7s. There are more for 6922/7308, 12AU7/7316, 6080/6AS7G, 6SN7/6N8S, 7N7.... below is one (of three) storage area in my home study:


----------



## M-83 (May 26, 2021)

@reddog Hey Reddog.  Hope you are well.  Just thought I'd give you a shout to say I've nabbed myself a pair of Alpha Primes 

I forgot how good they are.  Still my overall favourite headphone.  Can't wait for Gumby & MJ2 to arrive.

I've been very fortunate that I've been able to hit end game so soon after only a few weeks back saying that it will be some time before it will be achieved.

I think it just shows that one should always keep trying to achieve life goals no matter how challenging things can get.

I recently bought ZMF Atticus, and have a Feliks Audio Echo Mk1 on the way to pair with Gumby & Atticus.

Just need to find a Schiit Sys now so I can share Gumby with MJ2 & Echo.

When I have this rig setup, I'll be truly at end game


----------



## Guidostrunk

M-83 said:


> @reddog Hey Reddog.  Hope you are well.  Just thought I'd give you a shout to say I've nabbed myself a pair of Alpha Primes
> 
> I forgot how good they are.  Still my overall favourite headphone.  Can't wait for Gumby & MJ2 to arrive.
> 
> ...


That's it bro! Never give up! No matter how schiity life can be you have to keep going. I've been in your shoes many times. Had to sell all my gear and take a hiatus lol. 

Glad you found the combo.


----------



## M-83

Guidostrunk said:


> That's it bro! Never give up! No matter how schiity life can be you have to keep going. I've been in your shoes many times. Had to sell all my gear and take a hiatus lol.
> 
> Glad you found the combo.


Yeah no use in giving up, just gotta get your head down, fight, and keep going no matter what.  Not easy sometimes but that makes it all the sweeter when things come good again.

Thanks - the guy that posted the ad you shared the link to, cut a deal.  He's a great guy and it has been a pleasure.


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> That was just for the 12AT7s. There are more for 6922/7308, 12AU7/7316, 6080/6AS7G, 6SN7/6N8S, 7N7.... below is one (of three) storage area in my home study:


Now that's some organization!  I wish I was that organized.


----------



## ksorota

M-83 said:


> Just need to find a Schiit Sys now so I can share Gumby with MJ2 & Echo.



Gungnir -> XLR out to MJ2 and SE out to echo. No Sys needed. But if you still want one i have one you could take off my hands if you pay for shipping…just need to find the box.


----------



## M-83

ksorota said:


> Gungnir -> XLR out to MJ2 and SE out to echo. No Sys needed. But if you still want one i have one you could take off my hands if you pay for shipping…just need to find the box.


Okay thx for the explanation and offer of Schiit Sys.  As I can connect both at same time I'll not bother with sourcing a Sys.  Good of you to offer


----------



## ksorota (May 27, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Looks like you're ready for a pelican pluck foam case 😂. I just ordered one to store mine.



I have a couple pelican ruck cases to store them in. Nice and stackable and a fair bit cheaper than the big cases.



Although this is probably more your size😂


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> I have a couple pelican ruck cases to store them in. Nice and stackable and a fair bit cheaper than the big cases.
> 
> 
> Although this is probably more your size😂


😂😂😂


----------



## ksorota

These Footscrays only have about 10 hours on them, but DUDE!...they have that feeling!!!  Ill give it a few more days and throw the 1 hole 7728s back in to make some comparative remarks


----------



## Wes S (May 27, 2021)

ksorota said:


> These Footscrays only have about 10 hours on them, but DUDE!...they have that feeling!!!  Ill give it a few more days and throw the 1 hole 7728s back in to make some comparative remarks


Heck yes bro!  That "feeling" is everything and if the Footscray's got it, then I am getting one for sure.  So from your reaction, I take it they mopped the floor with the Rochesters?


----------



## Wes S

The new million dollar question.

Footscray triples vs. Mullard CV4033 

@jonathan c  any more thoughts on the two compared?


----------



## Wes S

Well after Keith's last post, I just couldn't take it anymore and I have a Footscray Triple Mica on the way.  Of all the folks I have met on this forum, @Guidostrunk and @ksorota are the two guys who's ears I trust the most, and if they like a tube I am pretty dang sure I will to.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> The new million dollar question.
> 
> Footscray triples vs. Mullard CV4033
> 
> @jonathan c  any more thoughts on the two compared?


I am still on the Whyteleafes. They make the closed-back Beyerdynamic DT-1770 Pro sound like open-back headphones 🤪.


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> I am still on the Whyteleafes. They make the closed-back Beyerdynamic DT-1770 Pro sound like open-back headphones 🤪.


Damn!  The DT1770 were my first good pair of headphones, so I am very familiar with them, and if they opened up that much it's impressive.  Those cans with the right tubes and amp, have the most insane bass I have ever heard, by the way.


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> These Footscrays only have about 10 hours on them, but DUDE!...they have that feeling!!!  Ill give it a few more days and throw the 1 hole 7728s back in to make some comparative remarks


I had a feeling you'd like them lol. They do beat the Rochester and by good margin.


----------



## Rowethren

Guidostrunk said:


> I had a feeling you'd like them lol. They do beat the Rochester and by good margin.


Don't say that!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Rowethren said:


> Don't say that!


Well.... the thing about tubes is. What I like you may not like. It's a really subjective thing. 

You have fantastic tubes. There's other tubes out there for sure. Whether they're better for you or not is the rabbit hole lol.


----------



## jonathan c

The triple-mica Footscray are cooking in the WA6....last location where I had the Whyteleafes. In the meantime, fellows, check out Langrex (U.K.) offering and inventory of Brimar KB/FB triple-mica 12AT7....not CV4033....I already took the plunge....


----------



## Wes S (May 27, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> The triple-mica Footscray are cooking in the WA6....last location where I had the Whyteleafes. In the meantime, fellows, check out Langrex (U.K.) offering and inventory of Brimar KB/FB triple-mica 12AT7....not CV4033....I already took the plunge....


Wow! They have quite a few, and that looks to be a square getter too.   I am a sucker for D and Square getter versions of tubes, and this one is calling my name, but seeing as they probably won't be selling out of them anytime soon, I am going to wait and hear what you think about them first.  Good find bro!


----------



## Wes S (May 27, 2021)

https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/...r-tkb-d-getter-1950s-welded-plate-valve-tube/

Langrex is not messing around!  Look at the stock, on this super rare tube.  I am most likely going to be picking up a pair of these too.  It's insane how many pairs they have, of such a rare tube and for a killer price too!  This tube goes for crazy money on Ebay.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Those are the street version of cv4033. Kinda like Siemens E88cc vs CCa. The cv4033 were specifically designed as a Platinum grade tube for communications and missle/rocket use. Hence the flying leads with the engineered bases for nuts like us. 😂

I will definitely be getting a pair from langrex to see how they compare lol.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/...r-tkb-d-getter-1950s-welded-plate-valve-tube/
> 
> Langrex is not messing around!  Look at the stock, on this super rare tube.  I am most likely going to be picking up a pair of these too.  It's insane how many pairs they have, of such a rare tube and for a killer price too!  This tube goes for crazy money on Ebay.


Those Copenhagen tubes aren't bad. Kinda in the middle of the Heerlen and Hamburg. I actually prefer them over the Heerlen tubes.


----------



## Guidostrunk

My favorite Philips tube was the Hamburg coin bottom. Preferred it over the 6201 pinched waist lol


----------



## Guidostrunk

I just opened this pelican case and love it already. Works exactly how I was hoping. Lol.


----------



## jonathan c (May 28, 2021)

Wes S said:


> The new million dollar question.
> 
> Footscray triples vs. Mullard CV4033
> 
> @jonathan c  any more thoughts on the two compared?


In the matter of Brimar CV4033 KB/FB (3-mica Footscray) v. Mullard CV4033 KB/DC (Whyteleafe), Docket No. 2021-05 before the Honourable Judge ‘jonathan c’, the Court finds in sonic favour of......the Footscray.

The Court also gives high recommendation to the Whyteleafe due to its many virtues which have been enumerated elsewhere.

The Footscray’s standing in this Court is due to its outstanding realism. This attribute embodies frequency response, clarity, definition, dynamics, ambience/reverberation retrieval, projection of vocals, transients and more. What is realism? Think “thereness”. This has been delivered by the Footscray to a degree previously unheard of by this Court. Rather like pornography which cannot be defined _per se_, this Court knows realism when it is heard. No argument is necessary and no argument will suffice. Real is real.

This Court, off the record, can only speculate that the 3-mica construction - well executed - is a major contributor to the Footscray’s sonic performance versus that of the Whyteleafe. The Judge muses that, for similar reasons, ‘tall-plate’ 12AU7s outperform their regular counterparts: greater surface area from which to emit electrons...

Back to the record (😆), the Court’s determination was made using jazz with which it was highly familiar. Mono and stereo recordings were used. The Footscray’s attributes were fully evident with mono sources.

The headphones used were the ZMF Auteur, Kennerton Gjallarhorn JM Edition, and Beyerdynamic DT1770 Pro. This last headphone, a closed-back, sounded _more like _an open-back with the Whyteleafe. Driven by the Footscray, the DT1770 sounded _like_ an open-back.

The Court thanks both tubes for their appearance today and declares this Docket as “completed”. The Judge will now leave to engage in sessions of non-official music listening. Please rise!


----------



## Rowethren

Guidostrunk said:


> Well.... the thing about tubes is. What I like you may not like. It's a really subjective thing.
> 
> You have fantastic tubes. There's other tubes out there for sure. Whether they're better for you or not is the rabbit hole lol.


But surely the grass is always green on the other side? I was told that was a plain hard fact!


----------



## Wes S (May 28, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Those Copenhagen tubes aren't bad. Kinda in the middle of the Heerlen and Hamburg. I actually prefer them over the Heerlen tubes.


These are actually Eindhoven not Copenhagen, so that's why I am a bit excited.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> I just opened this pelican case and love it already. Works exactly how I was hoping. Lol.


Brilliant!


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> In the matter of Brimar CV4003 KB/FB (3-mica Footscray) v. Mullard CV4003 KB/DC (Whyteleafe), Docket No. 2021-05 before the Honourable Judge ‘jonathan c’, the Court finds in sonic favour of......the Footscray.
> 
> The Court also gives high recommendation to the Whyteleafe due to its many virtues which have been enumerated elsewhere.
> 
> ...


What a fantastic post! 😂😂😂


----------



## Wes S (May 28, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> What a fantastic post! 😂😂😂


My thoughts exactly!  @jonathan c is on fire and has been such a great contribution to the thread!  My bank account thinks otherwise. . .  Speaking of "thereness", check out my location that I changed recently after getting my Pendant SE.  I love that term so much, and once it happens you get it.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I think I get more excited seeing other people's reactions than I do myself 😂


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> These are actually Eindhoven not Copenhagen, so that's why I am a bit excited.


Now I'm intrigued may have to bite on a pair now. Fantastic seller, bought a pair of tubes that were microphonic and the seller sent a replacement pair immediately and didn't want the first pair back.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Now I'm intrigued may have to bite on a pair now. Fantastic seller, bought a pair of tubes that were microphonic and the seller sent a replacement pair immediately and didn't want the first pair back.


I know right!  These tubes are so hard to come by, and are always super expensive when you can find them.  They are said to be even better than the Copenhagen's.  I agree about the seller as well, as I have had great success with them in the past.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I know right!  These tubes are so hard to come by, and are always super expensive when you can find them.  They are said to be even better than the Copenhagen's.  I agree about the seller as well, as I have had great success with them in the past.


Don't remember how to read the date codes but TKB is 1951 roughly.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Don't remember how to read the date codes but TKB is 1951 roughly.


They are very early with the welded plates, so that sounds about right to me.


----------



## G0rt

I can tell you that the Rochester CV4033 sound wildly holographic with the new SR325x. 😀


----------



## jonathan c (May 28, 2021)

Rowethren said:


> But surely the *glass* is always clearer in the other sockets? I was told that was a plain hard fact!


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> These are actually Eindhoven not Copenhagen, so that's why I am a bit excited.


I jumped in from “the high board”...😜


----------



## ksorota

I think I am going to have to sell the MJ2 just to get away from this madness!


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> I jumped in from “the high board”...😜


I had a feeling you would.


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> I think I am going to have to sell the MJ2 just to get away from this madness!


😂😂😂


----------



## TK16

Has anyone heard the Endihoven ECC81 welded plate D getters?


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> Has anyone heard the Endihoven ECC81 welded plate D getters?


I have not. Just the Copenhagen welded plates. I know the pinched waist Eindhoven CCa were the best of the bunch in the 6922 tubes. Makes you wonder what they have to offer lol.


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> I think I am going to have to sell the MJ2 just to get away from this madness!


...and go to ‘perfect measurement’ Topping gear which grates on your ear?...😖...


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> Has anyone heard the Endihoven ECC81 welded plate D getters?


On order from Langrex...


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> I have not. Just the Copenhagen welded plates. I know the pinched waist Eindhoven CCa were the best of the bunch in the 6922 tubes. Makes you wonder what they have to offer lol.


I'm listening to the Copenhagen, very good tubes, nothing wrong with them but I can think of about 10 other pairs that I'd rate higher. What's your take on the Copenhagen?


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> I'm listening to the Copenhagen, very good tubes, nothing wrong with them but I can think of about 10 other pairs that I'd rate higher. What's your take on the Copenhagen?


Yeah they're down the list pretty far. Still a good tube but like you said. There's a good bit of tubes ahead of them. Lol


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Yeah they're down the list pretty far. Still a good tube but like you said. There's a good bit of tubes ahead of them. Lol


Think I'm going to hold off on those Endihoven util others give some feedback. Hope that's quick with only 290 pairs left. 😄


----------



## Guidostrunk

These Footscray tubes are insane! I have never heard anything like it. It's like entering a hologram! 😂 @ksorota  get these things to 100 hours.
I got a second pair of these today. 1 year earlier by date. I may even grab another pair before it's all said and done. LOL!

I ABSOLUTELY love this tube! Due diligence has paid off! For me and my personal preference, this is the whole Kit & Kabootle! 🤣

My A2900 should be here this upcoming week. I will of course do a shootout and report back. As of right now the Footscray is my brakes. The only other tube I would buy right now is an earlier version of what I'm listening to right now.


----------



## reddog

M-83 said:


> @reddog Hey Reddog.  Hope you are well.  Just thought I'd give you a shout to say I've nabbed myself a pair of Alpha Primes
> 
> I forgot how good they are.  Still my overall favourite headphone.  Can't wait for Gumby & MJ2 to arrive.
> 
> ...


I am happy you were able to get a ps


----------



## jonathan c (May 29, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> These Footscray tubes are insane! I have never heard anything like it. It's like entering a hologram! 😂 @ksorota  get these things to 100 hours.
> I got a second pair of these today. 1 year earlier by date. I may even grab another pair before it's all said and done. LOL!
> 
> I ABSOLUTELY love this tube! Due diligence has paid off! For me and my personal preference, this is the whole Kit & Kabootle! 🤣
> ...


The triple-micas of 1957? As you have read, I cannot say enough good things about them. I doubt that the A2900 will succeed in a _coup du tube. _In the 12AT7 tube category, the Brimar CV4033 KB/FB (1957 Footscray) *is* the _ne plus ultra_ for me 🥲.


----------



## reddog

M-83 said:


> @reddog Hey Reddog.  Hope you are well.  Just thought I'd give you a shout to say I've nabbed myself a pair of Alpha Primes
> 
> I forgot how good they are.  Still my overall favourite headphone.  Can't wait for Gumby & MJ2 to arrive.
> 
> ...


I am happy you were able to score a pair of Alpha Primes. And you have a great system to listen too. I am happy you were able to reach you goal to have a high end setup.  May your system always put a big old smile on your face.


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> The triple-micas of 1957? As you read, I cannot say enough good things about them. I doubt that the A2900 will succeed in a _coup du tube. _In the 12AT7 tube category, the Brimar CV4033 KB/FB (1957 Footscray) *is* the _ne plus ultra_ for me 🥲.


Yes sir!  1957 😂


----------



## jonathan c (May 28, 2021)

I have done some listening to the A2900 (and the Valvo ECC81) and I have not wanted to “influence” or “precondition” your reactions to the A2900 in itself or vis-a-vis the KB/FB CV4033. At this moment, it seems clear that, for us, Footscray rules 12AT7dom if not tubedom...


----------



## TK16

jonathan c said:


> On order from Langrex...


Did you get them yet? Email delivery or electronic delivery?


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> Did you get them yet? Email delivery or electronic delivery?


I ordered yesterday directly from their website. I have ordered from Langrex quite a few times. They use the Royal Mail and items usually get to my home in ten days.


----------



## TK16

jonathan c said:


> I ordered yesterday directly from their website. I have ordered from Langrex quite a few times. They use the Royal Mail and items usually get to my home in ten days.


Forgot to put an emoji in my post, was a joke.


----------



## Guidostrunk

WOW! I was able to pry out of Sanjiv , the batch of tubes he is getting in , and sending me for a review. 

Before I mention the said tube will @TK16  and @bcowen please start forming an intervention team and send them to India lol. Also take a deep breath and do not laugh at the next sentence below. 

He's sending me a pair of ....... 1956 ............ triple mica........... 😬 .......12at7........... made by.......... oh God no............ GE 🤦‍♂️




🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> WOW! I was able to pry out of Sanjiv , the batch of tubes he is getting in , and sending me for a review.
> 
> Before I mention the said tube will @TK16  and @bcowen please start forming an intervention team and send them to India lol. Also take a deep breath and do not laugh at the next sentence below.
> 
> ...


LOL!!!  Could these actually be the GE to break out of the stereotype?


----------



## TK16

Saw this again at Tubemonger. Some people say it's the best. Never heard this myself. I know the beta tester reviewer giving thoughts.
https://pulsetubestore.com/products/cv3986
Sorry for posting. 😄


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> LOL!!!  Could these actually be the GE to break out of the stereotype?


If @Guidostrunk puts a "C" after the "GE" it will.🤪


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> WOW! I was able to pry out of Sanjiv , the batch of tubes he is getting in , and sending me for a review.
> 
> Before I mention the said tube will @TK16  and @bcowen please start forming an intervention team and send them to India lol. Also take a deep breath and do not laugh at the next sentence below.
> 
> ...


How much did he pay you to take them?     

There are some rumblings on the Darkvoice thread that the GE 5998A sounds pretty good.  Tung Sol has always been considered the king of that tube type, but with prices on those in NOS condition going at around $150/each these days and the GE's at about $50, it almost (only _almost_) makes me want to try one.  My mailbox would probably explode if the Post Office ever delivered a box with a GE in it, but it's also possible that GE screwed up every now and then and made a good sounding tube.


----------



## bcowen (May 29, 2021)

TK16 said:


> Saw this again at Tubemonger. Some people say it's the best. Never heard this myself. I know the beta tester reviewer giving thoughts.
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products/cv3986
> Sorry for posting. 😄


If you can solder, buy the tube and a socket saver for ~$25. I got mine from Langrex, and he may still have some.  The ad below looks to be the real deal and is priced a little better, but I've never bought from that seller myself (and Langrex has always been solid).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/392342649184?hash=item5b5971b960:g:mVwAAOSwktFdLcjb


Not as fancy looking, but my ears are blind.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> If you can solder, buy the tube and a socket saver for ~$25. I got mine from Langrex, and he may still have some.  The ad below looks to be the real deal and is priced a little better, but I've never bought from that seller myself (and Langrex has always been solid).
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/392342649184?hash=item5b5971b960:g:mVwAAOSwktFdLcjb
> 
> ...


2 questions. 
1. How did you defeat the power of gravity with the tube, as it looks to be standing up on its own? 🤣
2. You should consider supplying the tubes with the adapter and maybe making 75 to 99 cents over cost to us. 😆


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> 2 questions.
> 1. How did you defeat the power of gravity with the tube, as it looks to be standing up on its own? 🤣
> 2. You should consider supplying the tubes with the adapter and maybe making 75 to 99 cents over cost to us. 😆


1) Huh?  I'm confused.  You mean you don't have anti-gravity socket savers?  Newbie.
2) OK, then how about $119.99 each?  Parts are $25, but my labor is $250/hr.    More seriously, this was TubeMonger's idea and while I have no problem sharing what *I* did for myself, I wouldn't ever make them to sell just out of courtesy and good conscience (yeah, weird for me I know ).


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> How much did he pay you to take them?
> 
> There are some rumblings on the Darkvoice thread that the GE 5998A sounds pretty good.  Tung Sol has always been considered the king of that tube type, but with prices on those in NOS condition going at around $150/each these days and the GE's at about $50, it almost (only _almost_) makes me want to try one.  My mailbox would probably explode if the Post Office ever delivered a box with a GE in it, but it's also possible that GE screwed up every now and then and made a good sounding tube.


Not a penny. 😂 He's sending them for review. You know honesty is the best policy. Hopefully Sanjiv will still be my friend after my review 🤣


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> These Footscray tubes are insane! I have never heard anything like it. It's like entering a hologram! 😂 @ksorota  get these things to 100 hours.
> I got a second pair of these today. 1 year earlier by date. I may even grab another pair before it's all said and done. LOL!
> 
> I ABSOLUTELY love this tube! Due diligence has paid off! For me and my personal preference, this is the whole Kit & Kabootle! 🤣
> ...


Man, that is awesome!!!  My Footscray has been shipped and I am so excited to hear this tube and can't wait to enter the hologram!


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> Not a penny. 😂 He's sending them for review. You know honesty is the best policy. Hopefully Sanjiv will still be my friend after my review 🤣


LOL!  Never know.  Maybe a needle in the haystack.  Or maybe Sanjiv won't like you any more.   

Some say the 5 star GE 5670 is quite good.  I've never tried one (mailbox concerns), but perhaps they _don't_ suck?  Anyone here tried them?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Here you go @jonathan c  , I said u51 in a previous post when I should have said u52🤦‍♂️

These things are heavenly in the WA6. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-U52-5U...-/184860129128?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286


Derailment over lol.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> LOL!  Never know.  Maybe a needle in the haystack.  Or maybe Sanjiv won't like you any more.
> 
> Some say the 5 star GE 5670 is quite good.  I've never tried one (mailbox concerns), but perhaps they _don't_ suck?  Anyone here tried them?


I heard the GE 5 star, bought 2 pair very cheap. I do NOT recommend them. 2nd worst tube I ever heard. Only bested by dimple getter Mullard Mitcham E188CC with the RTC label. Upscaleaudio.com has them for maybe $300 by memory. Though tubes are very subjective to individuals.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Man, that is awesome!!!  My Footscray has been shipped and I am so excited to hear this tube and can't wait to enter the hologram!


I'm anxiously waiting to hear your thoughts and @ksorota follow up. I couldn't take myself away from my rig last night. It's so hard to explain the Footscray’s presentation. It's like the music is rising up from within or something 😂
The imaging is just crazy. The soundstage is huge but in a different intimate way. I know it sounds crazy and backwards lol. 

Vocals are paralyzing and ooze emotion. You not only feel their pain but it's almost as if you're going through it with them. It's nuts! 

I can't wait until you get yours.


----------



## bcowen (May 29, 2021)

TK16 said:


> I heard the GE 5 star, bought 2 pair very cheap. I do NOT recommend them. 2nd worst tube I ever heard. Only bested by dimple getter Mullard Mitcham E188CC with the RTC label. Upscaleaudio.com has them for maybe $300 by memory. Though tubes are very subjective to individuals.


Well, as a fellow member of the GE haters club, I'll take your word for it.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm anxiously waiting to hear your thoughts and @ksorota follow up. I couldn't take myself away from my rig last night. It's so hard to explain the Footscray’s presentation. It's like the music is rising up from within or something 😂
> The imaging is just crazy. The soundstage is huge but in a different intimate way. I know it sounds crazy and backwards lol.
> 
> Vocals are paralyzing and ooze emotion. You not only feel their pain but it's almost as if you're going through it with them. It's nuts!
> ...


In 2,000 words or more can you BRIEFLY explain the sound signature on the Footscray? I see it is highly regarded but not sure if I'd like em.
Mostly serious post by me.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Definitely get the Footscray to the 100 hour mark. They continue to open up even after 75 hours. You'll know what I'm talking about when it happens. It's very eerie lol.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Here you go @jonathan c  , I said u51 in a previous post when I should have said u52🤦‍♂️
> 
> These things are heavenly in the WA6.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-U52-5U...-/184860129128?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286
> ...


Sorry to continue the derail, but I am sure that G.E.C. rectifier is the bees knees, as I am using a G.E.C. U709 in my Pendant and it sure as heck is.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm anxiously waiting to hear your thoughts and @ksorota follow up. I couldn't take myself away from my rig last night. It's so hard to explain the Footscray’s presentation. It's like the music is rising up from within or something 😂
> The imaging is just crazy. The soundstage is huge but in a different intimate way. I know it sounds crazy and backwards lol.
> 
> Vocals are paralyzing and ooze emotion. You not only feel their pain but it's almost as if you're going through it with them. It's nuts!
> ...


Damn man!  I have had an experience in the past with a good tube roll, where it felt like I was the one singing, and it sounds like the Footscray's do just that.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Damn man!  I have had an experience in the past with a good tube roll, where it felt like I was the one singing, and it sounds like the Footscray's do just that.


That's exactly it. Like you're either the microphone itself or doing the performance itself lol. 

The sense of realism is astounding. As many tubes as a lot of us have been through, I never imagined something would come along and blow me away like these tubes are doing right now. Lol. 

I'm at around the 130 hour mark and nothing has changed since about the 85/90 hour mark. These do go through some changes along the way. In the end there's this extreme clarity and resolution that completes the magic. Simply stunning!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Don't sell your MJ2 Keith. Lol. You are at the rolling finish line! 😂


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> WOW! I was able to pry out of Sanjiv , the batch of tubes he is getting in , and sending me for a review.
> 
> Before I mention the said tube will @TK16  and @bcowen please start forming an intervention team and send them to India lol. Also take a deep breath and do not laugh at the next sentence below.
> 
> ...


They may have been made by Mullard and rebranded as GE? Would GE have even made 12AT7s let alone triple-mica 12AT7s?


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> LOL!!!  Could these actually be the GE to break out of the stereotype?


Actually, the GE 5998A power tubes are rather good - in fact, very good. I bought four of them. I am 🙂🙂🙂 with them.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> If you can solder, buy the tube and a socket saver for ~$25. I got mine from Langrex, and he may still have some.  The ad below looks to be the real deal and is priced a little better, but I've never bought from that seller myself (and Langrex has always been solid).
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/392342649184?hash=item5b5971b960:g:mVwAAOSwktFdLcjb
> 
> ...


A squid tube from 20,000 leagues under the sea!


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Don't sell your MJ2 Keith. Lol. You are at the rolling finish line! 😂


Friends don’t let friends sell their MJ-ll......

[+ a paraphrase from the 1970s]

This is an MJ-II, this is an MJ-II on Footscrays: any questions?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Not sure who's into EDM, but this track is insane. Man does the Footscray deliver the goods! 

https://tidal.com/track/130656804


----------



## TK16

Joined the club, ordered a pair of those Footscray CV4033 '57.


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> Joined the club, ordered a pair of those Footscray CV4033 '57.


Your ears will be forever grateful...


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> Joined the club, ordered a pair of those Footscray CV4033 '57.


 
Most definitely looking forward to your thoughts! They have big shoes to fill. Lol


----------



## Guidostrunk

The bass response on these tubes is just bonkers. Slam monsters and they dig down so deep in the sub-bass. Extremely tight grip and love how it fills in the whole stage. Complete Insanity 🤪


----------



## jonathan c

The amazing sonic attributes of the 1957 Brimar CV4033 KB/FB are not only blatantly obvious via the MJ-II but also recast the soundscape for the Woo WA3 (otl) and Woo WA6 (otc). GEC CV5008 + Footscray = IEC Mullard GZ34 + Footscray = entrance to Saint Peter’s audio den....


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Most definitely looking forward to your thoughts! They have big _quite a few _shoes to fill. Lol


----------



## Guidostrunk

Omg I gotta go to bed!
This is insane! I can't pull myself away. 🤣


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Omg I gotta go to bed!
> This is insane! I can't pull myself away. 🤣


Why?....it’s Saturday—> Sunday and a holiday weekend...


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Omg I gotta go to bed!
> This is insane! I can't pull myself away. 🤣


I can’t pull myself away,
When the Mjolnir runs on Footscray,
I must let the music play,
To cast its spell, oh what the hell, 
As night quickly turns into day.


----------



## Guidostrunk

😂😂😂


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> I can’t pull myself away,
> When the Mjolnir runs on Footscray,
> I must let the music play,
> To cast its spell, oh what the hell,
> As night quickly turns into day.


You are quit talented at writing!  Is that your profession?


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Omg I gotta go to bed!
> This is insane! I can't pull myself away. 🤣


You are making the wait for my Footcray to arrive much harder!   Here's hoping for some swift winds, behind that Fedex plain/truck.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> You are quit talented at writing!  Is that your profession?


Investments / fixed-income / economic research...


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> You are quit talented at writing!  Is that your profession?


@jonathan c is a poet and doesn't even know it.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> You are making the wait for my Footcray to arrive much harder!   Here's hoping for some swift winds, behind that Fedex plain/truck.


I can't wait for you to get yours bro and read your post lol.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> You are making the wait for my Footcray to arrive much harder!   Here's hoping for some swift winds, behind that Fedex plain/truck.


I had my first pair in hand on the 8th day from the time I placed my order.


----------



## Guidostrunk

These look very interesting. Could be the 7730 killer @Wes S  😂
https://pulsetubestore.com/products...cc82-cv4003-12au7-13d5-plug-play-ready-to-use


----------



## Wes S (May 30, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> These look very interesting. Could be the 7730 killer @Wes S  😂
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products...cc82-cv4003-12au7-13d5-plug-play-ready-to-use


I have had my eye on those for days, but just can't bring myself to spend that kind of cash on a hunch. I am running the 7316 Long Plate Foil D Getters these days, and am quite happy staying there.  However, if I had some extra cash I would be all over those.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> I have had my eye on those for days, but just can't bring myself to spend that kind of cash on a hunch. I am running the 7316 Long Plate Foil D Getters these days, and am quite happy staying there.  However, if I had some extra cash I would be all over those.


I hear you bro. I'll pick up a third pair of Footscray at the end of this week and I'll be completely finished with buying tubes. 

Next purchase is the pi 2 design mercury streamer when it hits the market and I'll be done gear wise as well lol


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> I hear you bro. I'll pick up a third pair of Footscray at the end of this week and I'll be completely finished with buying tubes.
> 
> Next purchase is the pi 2 design mercury streamer when it hits the market and I'll be done gear wise as well lol


Nice man!  I am most likely going to pick up another Footscray triple for backup after I hear the one coming, and I will be done for a while as well.  I have spent a ton of money on my new system and tubes this past couple of months, and it is now time to slow down and enjoy it all.  Also, a good streamer really takes things to another level, so good call on picking one up.


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> I hear you bro. I'll pick up a third pair of Footscray at the end of this week and *I'll be completely finished with buying tubes.*



Hahahahahahahaha!!!  Good one.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> I have had my eye on those for days, but just can't bring myself to spend that kind of cash on a hunch. I am running the 7316 Long Plate Foil D Getters these days, and am quite happy staying there.  However, if I had some extra cash I would be all over those.


I think you should take one for the team and get one so you can tell us how it compares to the 7316.  

Not for me, of course -- I'm not buying any more tubes.


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> Hahahahahahahaha!!!  Good one.


😂😂😂


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> I hear you bro. I'll pick up a third pair of Footscray at the end of this week and I'll be *completely finished with buying tubes.*
> 
> Next purchase is the pi 2 design mercury streamer when it hits the market and I'll be done gear wise as well lol


LOL! Post won`t age well bro.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> LOL! Post won`t age well bro.


🤣


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well.... technically they are an older version(street) of what I'm listening to. 😬 
The urge is killing me 😣
https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/12at7-cv455-kb-fb-brimar-rare-triple-mica-1956-nos-valve-tube/


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Well.... technically they are an older version(street) of what I'm listening to. 😬
> The urge is killing me 😣
> https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/12at7-cv455-kb-fb-brimar-rare-triple-mica-1956-nos-valve-tube/


Fell off the wagon in 6 hours? 😉


----------



## ksorota

I tried the 1-hole 7728s again against the Footscrays and I honestly dont know which I prefer.  I do not think I can top all poetic praise they have been receiving from you all, but suffice to say, the Footscrays are top notch, king of the hill tubes.  The 7728s (1-hole) are just about their, but also have some more heft/tonality to them that i really like.  I am torn.  I still am worried I am going to sell the MJ2 though.  The MJ1 removes the tube nervosa, and still sounds incredible doing it.  I have a bunch of capacitors to swap into it to give it some more of the tubishness (hopefully) that has been occupying all of our time lately.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> Fell off the wagon in 6 hours? 😉


🤣


----------



## jonathan c

As I posted quite a while back in a different forum:

Step One of Tubeists Anonymous:
We admitted that we were powerless over tubes - that our lives had become unmanageable.


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> I tried the 1-hole 7728s again against the Footscrays and I honestly dont know which I prefer.  I do not think I can top all poetic praise they have been receiving from you all, but suffice to say, the Footscrays are top notch, king of the hill tubes.  The 7728s (1-hole) are just about their, but also have some more heft/tonality to them that i really like.  I am torn.  I still am worried I am going to sell the MJ2 though.  The MJ1 removes the tube nervosa, and still sounds incredible doing it.  I have a bunch of capacitors to swap into it to give it some more of the tubishness (hopefully) that has been occupying all of our time lately.


Don't do it Keith 😬. Just stick with the 7728( which if you want them we'll work out a deal, and I have a spare to go with them) and keep the Footscray and call it a day. Lol. 

I completely understand the whole tube rabbit hole being a SS guy. I feel that you would regret parting with the MJ2. I know there's so many tubes and having that "what if I tried these" always in the back of your head. Lol.

At the end of the day though it's a subjective preference. I've been a tube nut since 2014 on here. I just love what tubes do to the sound. Plus the knowledge I've gained over the years really makes me appreciate their value in many ways. 

No one tube is the end all be all unless it's a mandate lol. Eventually we all find the one. @TK16  settled on the 7316 , @billerb1 the Tele ecc801s , @AuditoryCanvas the Valvo 6201 pinched waist. @jb77 the mini mullards. 

Tube nervosa is a good thing 😂


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> As I posted quite a while back in a different forum:
> 
> Step One of Tubeists Anonymous:
> We admitted that we were powerless over tubes - that our lives had become unmanageable.


Hahahahahahaha!


----------



## TK16

This seller has a bunch of the Copenhagen welded plate ECC81's.
https://www.ebay.com/usr/dan198745?_trksid=p2047675.l2559


----------



## Guidostrunk

Another late night 😂


----------



## TK16 (May 31, 2021)

Nevermind.


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 1, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Well.... the thing about tubes is. What I like you may not like. It's a really subjective thing.
> 
> You have fantastic tubes. There's other tubes out there for sure. Whether they're better for you or not is the rabbit hole lol.


Even though this is an MJ-II thread, please take a look:

I have spent today, when not ‘chore-ing’, listening intently to four jazz / R&B CDs via the Woo Audio WA6 in two modes: 1.  IEC Mullard GZ34 with two Melz 6N8S (1959); 2.  IEC Mullard GZ34 with two Brimar CV4033 KB/FD (Rochester).

The sound quality in mode 1 was excellent: full and sonorous in delivery, great rendition of ambiance and space between performers, natural on vocals and chorus.

HOWEVER, the sound quality in mode 2 had the attributes above and it had THERENESS (that term, again!). The transients were light quick yet were not harsh. The performers were right before me / I was right in front of the performers. All musical detail was evident yet following the total sound was easy. It was as though the Rochesters had better reflexes than the Melz when presented with the same situation.

Takeaway:  the Brimar CV4033 KB/FD (Rochester) are wonderful tubes; the Melz 6N8S (1959) are one of the best in the 6SN7 class. Both were used with adapters for 6DE7 sockets. Perhaps the Melz was ‘outside’ its ‘optimal’ operating parameters while in the WA6 (the adapters for the Melz were from Woo Audio, though). Anyway, my brain/ear was telling me that _via the Woo WA6_, the music was much closer to REAL with the Rochesters. Definite keepers. Happy to own them. Understudies to the Footscrays.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The madness continues . GEC A2900's have arrived. 😂


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> The madness continues . GEC A2900's have arrived. 😂


Nothing better than seeing a nice G.E.C. sticker, and their tubes are tops no doubt.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> The madness continues . GEC A2900's have arrived. 😂


Bleeding from your eardrums yet? 😁


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> Bleeding from your eardrums yet? 😁


Only from GE tubes or ‘perfect measurement’ white-sound SS...


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> Bleeding from your eardrums yet? 😁


Surprisingly no. Then again I'm at about the 12 hour mark. To be honest they sound a little flubby in the bass and somewhat subdued compared to the Footscray. It's so early yet though.


----------



## Wes S

My Footscray Triple has arrived in Dallas, TX and is now just down the road from me.   Heck, I might even get it today, or most likely tomorrow and that means a fun weekend ahead!


----------



## Wes S

Wes S said:


> My Footscray Triple has arrived in Dallas, TX and is now just down the road from me.   Heck, I might even get it today, or most likely tomorrow and that means a fun weekend ahead!



Gonna be a long night!


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Gonna be a long night!


If you can please describe the sound signature briefly.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 2, 2021)

TK16 said:


> If you can please describe the sound signature briefly.


You got man.  I am gonna have a listen while it's burning in, and can't wait.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 2, 2021)

Footscray Triple Mica is in the amp, and I just fired it up. Let the burn in begin!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Over the 24 hour mark on the A2900 and they have opened up and the bass is deep and tight now. Fantastic bass. Signature sounds a little V shaped right now and certain treble notes can get hot at louder volumes. Mostly with EDM. The A2900 does sound like I remember in the past. Still waiting for the top end and stage to open more. 
Long way to 100 hours though lol. Gonna do a swap here shortly with the Footscray and see where we're at.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Footscray Triple Mica is in the amp, and I just fired it up. Let the burn in begin!


Oh boy. The suspense is going to kill me waiting for your post 😂


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Footscray Triple Mica is in the amp, and I just fired it up. Let the burn in begin!


What amp is that? Looks beautiful. Waiting patiently for you thoughts on the Brimar.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Oh boy. The suspense is going to kill me waiting for your post 😂


Holy crap man!!!!  I know it's very early. . . however I hear the 4th dimension already and I am freaking blown away!!!!  I can only imagine how insane it is gonna sound once burned in, and if it keeps getting better I can honestly say the search for the "one" is over.    The headphones literally just disappear, and sounds explode out of nowhere all around my head, with perfect tonality.  The vocals are sounding incredible, and there is zero harshness with amazing detail, and the stage is already immersive as all get out!  I can't wait till this tube opens up all the way and it's back to burn in. . .


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Holy crap man!!!!  I know it's very early. . . however I hear the 4th dimension already and I am freaking blown away!!!!  I can only imagine how insane it is gonna sound once burned in, and if it keeps getting better I can honestly say the search for the "one" is over.    The headphones literally just disappear, and sounds explode out of nowhere all around my head, with perfect tonality.  The vocals are sounding incredible, and there is zero harshness with amazing detail, and the stage is already immersive as all get out!  I can't wait till this tube opens up all the way and it's back to burn in. . .


😂😂😂


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> What amp is that? Looks beautiful. Waiting patiently for you thoughts on the Brimar.


It's the ZMF Pendant SE and yes sir it is an amazing looking and sounding amp.  You are gonna like the Brimar bro.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The fun is just beginning bro!


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> 😂😂😂


You found the "one" bro!  This is the second time now, that you have turned me on to an amazing tube, with the Raytheon 7730 being the first, and I can't thank you enough man!  I see many a late nights, and early mornings of pure listening enjoyment, thanks to you brother.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 2, 2021)

Well, with what I am hearing right now from the Footscray Triple 57', I went ahead and just bought a backup.  I can't believe what I am hearing, it is so so freaking lifelike and immersive, and it's not even burned in yet.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Well, with what I am hearing right now from the Footscray Triple 57', I went ahead and just bought a backup.  I can't believe what I am hearing, it is so so freaking lifelike and immersive, and it's not even burned in yet.


😂😂😂 now you see what I was going through posting on here about them when I first got them. They do get better 😁


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> 😂😂😂 now you see what I was going through posting on here about them when I first got them. They do get better 😁


I sure do!  They are getting better by the minute and I have a bunch of stuff I need to do, but I can't stop listening.   The way the notes linger and decay is so freaking natural and lifelike, and I have not heard it this good ever.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I don't even want to put the A2900 back in. 🤣 
You were right @jonathan c . The A2900 needs a miracle right now


----------



## ksorota

Wes S said:


> Well, with what I am hearing right now from the Footscray Triple 57', I went ahead and just bought a backup.  I can't believe what I am hearing, it is so so freaking lifelike and immersive, and it's not even burned in yet.



Just because, last night i bought a second set also. Never be too safe.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> I don't even want to put the A2900 back in. 🤣
> You were right @jonathan c . The A2900 needs a miracle right now


The A2900 is no slouch....but the Footscray can beat it with one mica behind its back....


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Oh boy. The suspense is going to kill me waiting for your post 😂


What suspense?....if Wes hears what we hear, all the other 12AT7s will say “no mas”....decision by *T*ube *K*nock *O*ut....


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Holy crap man!!!!  I know it's very early. . . however I hear the 4th dimension already and I am freaking blown away!!!!  I can only imagine how insane it is gonna sound once burned in, and if it keeps getting better I can honestly say the search for the "one" is over.    The headphones literally just disappear, and sounds explode out of nowhere all around my head, with perfect tonality.  The vocals are sounding incredible, and there is zero harshness with amazing detail, and the stage is already immersive as all get out!  I can't wait till this tube opens up all the way and it's back to burn in. . .


And you use only one Footscray at a time in the Pendant...


----------



## Wes S (Jun 3, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> And you use only one Footscray at a time in the Pendant...


Definitely a big plus, if you ask me.

I just ordered a 3rd Footscray and I am calling it a day.  I have to say, this is the first time I have ever been so satisfied with a tube, that I have no desire to even look for others.  Hell, I haven't even checked my tube searches on ebay today, which is usually the first thing I do when I wake up.  This is such a satisfying feeling! 

Bravo @Guidostrunk!


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Definitely a big plus, if you ask me.
> 
> I just ordered a 3rd Footscray and I am calling it a day.  I have to say, this is the first time I have ever been so satisfied with a tube, that I have no desire to even look for others.  Hell, I haven't even checked my tube searches on ebay today, which is usually the first thing I do when I wake up.  This is such a satisfying feeling!
> 
> Bravo @Guidostrunk!


Sorry you hate those tubes. Am willing to trade pair GE tubes for the Brimar. 😁
What are similar sounding tubes? Do you think I might want a backup pair? Really trying to hold off on another pair before hearing the tube. Been burned to many times buying multiple sets without hearing them. GE 5670, Mullard Mitcham E188CC dimple getter. LM Ericcson 2C51 etc.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 3, 2021)

TK16 said:


> Sorry you hate those tubes. Am willing to trade pair GE tubes for the Brimar. 😁
> What are similar sounding tubes? Do you think I might want a backup pair? Really trying to hold off on another pair before hearing the tube. Been burned to many times buying multiple sets without hearing them. GE 5670, Mullard Mitcham E188CC dimple getter. LM Ericcson 2C51 etc.


I have not heard a tube that does what the Footscray can do (pre burn in), so it's hard to compare to any other tubes.  Honestly, I can't imagine any tube roller not loving this tube, but with synergy and preferences I can't say 100% for sure.  I can say this though, if you do buy a second set and don't end up liking them, you will be able to sell them easily.  I just let the cat out of the bag on the Headphones.com Pendant thread, so I am sure they are gonna get some attention and many will want them.

So far, everyone who has heard them has agreed they are the bees knees, and we all have some killer tubes.


----------



## Wes S

The cat is definitely out of the bag.  Down to just 3 left at the moment, and there were 12 last night.


----------



## ksorota

Wes S said:


> The cat is definitely out of the bag.  Down to just 3 left at the moment, and there were 12 last night.


was wondering when stock would get depleted.  I have a feeling he went to grab Wes's third tube and realized the bin was just about empty and had to update the page!  Try to stop yourself from hoarding the last 3!!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

All gone 😂


----------



## Guidostrunk

I do have a pair of those 1956 cv455 triple Footscray coming from langrex. Hopefully they're just as good. Same tube as cv4033 but the cv455 doesn't meet the testing standards on paper. So I say screw the paper standards and see what the ears tell me LOL!


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> All gone 😂


Incorrect! Seeing 8 available now. JK on incorrect.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> Incorrect! Seeing 8 available now. JK on incorrect.


Holy schiit. I sent him an email asking if he had anymore right after I saw they were gone. 😂
I guess those 8 are the end of the road lol


----------



## Wes S (Jun 3, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Holy schiit. I sent him an email asking if he had anymore right after I saw they were gone. 😂
> I guess those 8 are the end of the road lol


There's 14 now, so looks like all is well for those who missed out on the last batch.  I wonder how many he actually has?


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> There's 14 now, so looks like all is well for those who misses out.


You should of called my 8 in stock as incorrect.  😁
Think I am holding off until I hear them. Bought on Saturday.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Holy schiit. I sent him an email asking if he had anymore right after I saw they were gone. 😂
> I guess those 8 are the end of the road lol


Did you ask if those tubes were tested for Covid-19?


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 3, 2021)

It seems that Pulse has the Brimar CV4033 KB/FB in ‘flying lead’ form....to which Pulse wires and attaches the base to make the tube “plug and play” - ramping up due to demand?:


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> Did you ask if those tubes were tested for Covid-19?


😂 I did not. 

Pulse is fantastic at service. He responds pretty quickly to all my  emails.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> 😂 I did not.
> 
> Pulse is fantastic at service. He responds pretty quickly to all my  emails.


He is very fast to respond with me, too! Best in the business!


----------



## Wes S (Jun 3, 2021)

There is about to be a bunch of Footscray's in the wild soon, as I have talked at least 3 or 4 people on the other forum into buying one for their Pendant's, and I know a few on this forum did as well thanks to Sam.  It is gonna be so fun reading all of their reactions!

Is it 5pm yet?  I am ready to get home from work and fire mine up!


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> There is about to be a bunch of Footscray's in the wild soon, as I have talked at least 3 or 4 people on the other forum into buying one for their Pendant's, and I know a few on this forum did as well thanks to Sam.  It is gonna be so fun reading all of their reactions!
> 
> Is it 5pm yet?  I am ready to get home from work and fire mine up!


In whatever time zone 5pm is the current post, go by that time zone...


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> In whatever time zone 5pm is the current post, go by that time zone...


LOL! I wish!


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> 😂 I did not.
> 
> Pulse is fantastic at service. He responds pretty quickly to all my  emails.


https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use
0 in stock. 
You guys here are terrible. I was lucky to get 1 set. 🤣


----------



## jonathan c

If you did not notice, take a look at post #3,693 above....🤔....


----------



## TK16

jonathan c said:


> If you did not notice, take a look at post #3,693 above....🤔....


What about it?


----------



## Wes S (Jun 3, 2021)

TK16 said:


> What about it?


Perhaps he is talking about "adding a few tubes at a time". . .as in there might be more coming.


----------



## ksorota

Roller coaster day. Seems the 14 that pulse assembled were frantically purchased as stock seemed limited. 

More should slowly be added to the site as they are assembled. I don’t expect them to last long with Wes sharing this treasured tube on other sites! 

The Mjolnir thread luckily is not heavily traveled but for a few so we were able to snag the footscrays before going out of stock. 

That being said. I think i should unsubscribe before a lot of rare 7316s are found 😂


----------



## TK16

ksorota said:


> Roller coaster day. Seems the 14 that pulse assembled were frantically purchased as stock seemed limited.
> 
> More should slowly be added to the site as they are assembled. I don’t expect them to last long with Wes sharing this treasured tube on other sites!
> 
> ...


Bit pricey but killer tubes. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Amper...7-40b7-41c0-aed8-26a589ec39a5&redirect=mobile


----------



## Wes S

ksorota said:


> Roller coaster day. Seems the 14 that pulse assembled were frantically purchased as stock seemed limited.
> 
> More should slowly be added to the site as they are assembled. I don’t expect them to last long with Wes sharing this treasured tube on other sites!
> 
> ...


Today was a bit nuts!  I really only thought a couple people on the other site would be interested, but I definitely was wrong about that one.   Sorry to blast it out there, as I just couldn't keep a lid on it, and wanted others to join in our fun.  Man I can only imagine the frenzy a rare lot of 7316 would start, as that tube is very well known, and I am sure you know how @TK16 and I feel about that one.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Bit pricey but killer tubes.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Amper...7-40b7-41c0-aed8-26a589ec39a5&redirect=mobile


LOL!  Nice timing!  That is a really nice looking pair, by the way.


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> Roller coaster day. Seems the 14 that pulse assembled were frantically purchased as stock seemed limited.
> 
> More should slowly be added to the site as they are assembled. I don’t expect them to last long with Wes sharing this treasured tube on other sites!
> 
> ...


😂😂😂


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 3, 2021)

Headline from the inaugural issue of The Tube Times (published by Vacuum Voice, Ltd.)?:

Melee over Footscray!


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Headline from the inaugural issue of The Tube Times (published by Vacuum Voice, Ltd.)?:


😂😂😂🤦‍♂️


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> 😂😂😂🤦‍♂️


Look above (3,708)


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Look above (3,708)


Melee?


----------



## Guidostrunk

I totally googled melee tubes 🤣


----------



## Guidostrunk

I can't do this thinking thing under the influence 😪


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> I can't do this thinking thing under the _unyielding_ influence _of Footscray..._


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


>


🤣 oh man I know. It took a while!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Long island iced tea, chemdawg and Footscray =👌🤯


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Long island iced tea, chemdawg and Footscray =👌🤯


Chemdawg is a killer strain!   Now that's a combo!


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Today was a bit nuts!  I really only thought a couple people on the other site would be interested, but I definitely was wrong about that one.   Sorry to blast it out there, as I just couldn't keep a lid on it, and wanted others to join in our fun.  Man I can only imagine the frenzy a rare lot of 7316 would start, as that tube is very well known, and I am sure you know how @TK16 and I feel about that one.


keep the secret of the 7316 until I get my single bro. 
This message will self destruct in 10 seconds!


----------



## Wes S (Jun 4, 2021)

Holy crap!  I have never heard Jeff Buckley sound so lifelike, and I feel as if he is singing from the same microphone as me.   Magical stage too, with a great an incredible sense of space.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> keep the secret of the 7316 until I get my single bro.
> This message will self destruct in 10 seconds!


LOL!  Roger that Inspector!


----------



## Wes S (Jun 4, 2021)

It's nuts how loud I can listen with these Footscray's, as they are so well balanced, clean and open sounding!  No harshness anywhere at all. 

Got the day off and an ounce of GG #4 sitting next to me, this is gonna be a fun day.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> It's nuts how loud I can listen with these Footscray's, as they are so well balanced, clean and open sounding!  No harshness anywhere at all.
> 
> Got the day off and an ounce of GG #4 sitting next to me, this is gonna be a fun day.


No harshness sounds good. All the other Brimar I had I wound up selling because of the sound signature being harsh in the highs. 16 tubes are in stock on the Footscray's btw.


----------



## G0rt

Wes S said:


> It's nuts how loud I can listen with these Footscray's, as they are so well balanced, clean and open sounding!  No harshness anywhere at all.
> 
> Got the day off and an ounce of GG #4 sitting next to me, this is gonna be a fun day.


My only Footscrays are CV1988s, but I can relate.

Friday, whisky for breakfast, a Laphroaig, and Coltrane.


----------



## Wes S

G0rt said:


> My only Footscrays are CV1988s, but I can relate.
> 
> Friday, whisky for breakfast, a Laphroaig, and Coltrane.


Yes sir!  I still have a couple pairs of CV1988, but don't have an amp to use them in at the moment.  Killer tubes no doubt!


----------



## G0rt

Wes S said:


> Yes sir!  I still have a couple pairs of CV1988, but don't have an amp to use them in at the moment.  Killer tubes no doubt!


They do work exceptionally well in Valhalla2 and Lyr3.


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> No harshness sounds good. All the other Brimar I had I wound up selling because of the sound signature being harsh in the highs. 16 tubes are in stock on the Footscray's btw.


Interesting....I still use Brimar CV2492 (6922) in the cap-modded Liquid Platinum....clear and not harsh at all....


----------



## jonathan c

G0rt said:


> Friday, whisky for breakfast, a Laphroaig, and Coltrane.


It must be “My Favourite Things” (Atlantic SD-1361)....


----------



## Wes S

Hell yes!


----------



## TK16

Took out my pair of GEC A2900 couldn't handle them being under the weather with a head cold and put in a pair of the Foton 6N3P 3x mica 1957's in the MJ2. Haven't listened to them in a long time. Beautiful sounding very cheap tubes.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> Took out my pair of GEC A2900 couldn't handle them being under the weather with a head cold and put in a pair of the Foton 6N3P 3x mica 1957's in the MJ2. Haven't listened to them in a long time. Beautiful sounding very cheap tubes.


I can't believe how long ago we were rolling those variants lol. Time flies bro!


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> I can't believe how long ago we were rolling those variants lol. Time flies bro!


You were a Heerlen freak back then I think?


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> You were a Heerlen freak back then I think?


The old Valvo CCa lol.


----------



## JoeyB

New here, been reading for a while since A&K DAP, and Grado Hemp pulled me back into hobby. After wanting to start slow, delays had me change my Bifrost2/Jot2 order to MJ2/Gumby. I got the MJ2 a week before they stopped selling them luckily, still waiting on Gumby. I’m new to tubes and rolling even though I’ve been into audio for decades (mostly car audio). I cannot thank this thread enough for the knowledge you guys shared about tubes. After 2 weeks of having MJ2 I ordered the Footscrays…. Wow! I had no idea how much tubes can change the sound!! I waited 10hrs of burn in to listen, and you guys were right, amazing. Literally sounds like I’m center stage at the mic stand! I listened for 6 hrs straight! I can’t wait to hear how they improve with time, and once I get Gumby In the chain. Yes I ordered second pair of footscrays this morning


----------



## Guidostrunk

JoeyB said:


> New here, been reading for a while since A&K DAP, and Grado Hemp pulled me back into hobby. After wanting to start slow, delays had me change my Bifrost2/Jot2 order to MJ2/Gumby. I got the MJ2 a week before they stopped selling them luckily, still waiting on Gumby. I’m new to tubes and rolling even though I’ve been into audio for decades (mostly car audio). I cannot thank this thread enough for the knowledge you guys shared about tubes. After 2 weeks of having MJ2 I ordered the Footscrays…. Wow! I had no idea how much tubes can change the sound!! I waited 10hrs of burn in to listen, and you guys were right, amazing. Literally sounds like I’m center stage at the mic stand! I listened for 6 hrs straight! I can’t wait to hear how they improve with time, and once I get Gumby In the chain. Yes I ordered second pair of footscrays this morning


Then after you spend a bit with the MJ2,  you can send it to @ksorota for a nice cap mod. Lol. There's where the insane change happens. 

Welcome to the thread bro! And thank yourself for finding these recent posts about the Footscray. You just saved yourself a ton of money and time rolling tubes lol.


----------



## jonathan c

JoeyB said:


> New here, been reading for a while since A&K DAP, and Grado Hemp pulled me back into hobby. After wanting to start slow, delays had me change my Bifrost2/Jot2 order to MJ2/Gumby. I got the MJ2 a week before they stopped selling them luckily, still waiting on Gumby. I’m new to tubes and rolling even though I’ve been into audio for decades (mostly car audio). I cannot thank this thread enough for the knowledge you guys shared about tubes. After 2 weeks of having MJ2 I ordered the Footscrays…. Wow! I had no idea how much tubes can change the sound!! I waited 10hrs of burn in to listen, and you guys were right, amazing. Literally sounds like I’m center stage at the mic stand! I listened for 6 hrs straight! I can’t wait to hear how they improve with time, and once I get Gumby In the chain. Yes I ordered second pair of footscrays this morning


Like you, I purchased an MJ-II immediately before product termination. At first, it was to be black - taken off website; then I reordered - silver, shipped, then taken off website. I had the MJ-II shipped directly to @ksorota who did the capacitor swap. No more describing the benefits of that now: plenty of discussion in this MJ-II forum. 
I am happy that you enjoy the Footscrays. There is nothing like going straight to the top as a veteran or rookie tube roller (I am in between). Believe me, the Footscrays are the peak of the 12AT7 mountains.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Hell yes!


Saw Floyd at the Division Bell tour at Giants stadium in NJ. Fantastic band one of my favorites.


----------



## Guidostrunk

It really is weird not searching for other tubes anymore. I deleted all my search alerts on ebay lol. 

These tubes just massage my soul! It's incredible that we can even get them. Even better is getting to share the moment with so many good people I've met on here. Can't wait to see more posts when everyone gets theirs. 
I know not all will gush over them like I have and still am!  

It's just one WOW or HOLY FIG NEWTON after another 😂😂😂. 
It's Insanity.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> It really is weird not searching for other tubes anymore. I deleted all my search alerts on ebay lol.
> 
> These tubes just massage my soul! It's incredible that we can even get them. Even better is getting to share the moment with so many good people I've met on here. Can't wait to see more posts when everyone gets theirs.
> I know not all will gush over them like I have and still am!
> ...


Mine are in France, ordered Saturday.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> Mine are in France, ordered Saturday.


They'll be in Tennessee Monday or Tuesday and at your door Wednesday or Thursday lol


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 5, 2021)

With the performance that the Footscray (and the Whyteleafes and Rochesters) wring out of the MJ-II (and Woo WA3, Woo WA6), I can’t help but contemplate what they would do for other 12AT7 / 12AU7 featured headphone amplifiers....Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL MZ3 (12AT7 and 6SN7)....maybe even Rogue Audio RH-5 (12AU7 and MOSFETs)....@Wes S?....and how about the new McIntosh MHA-200 (12AT7 and 12BH7)?....


----------



## Rowethren

Anyone who has started to horde Footscray fancy doing a loaner tour? Can't really afford anymore tubes at the moment but I feel I am missing out with my lowly Rochesters


----------



## Wes S (Jun 5, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> With the performance that the Footscray (and the Whyteleafes and Rochesters) wring out of the MJ-II (and Woo WA3, Woo WA6), I can’t help but contemplate what they would do for other 12AT7 / 12AU7 featured headphone amplifiers....Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL MZ3 (12AT7 and 6SN7)....maybe even Rogue Audio RH-5 (12AU7 and MOSFETs)....@Wes S?....


My RH-5 is riding the bench behind my Pendant SE at moment, and to tell you the truth the Pendant SE was out performaning my RH-5 before the Footscray, so not sure it can hang either way.  The Pendant SE perhaps just pairs better with my high impedance ZMF dynamics, and perhaps planars would be insane with some Footscray's in the RH-5, but I can't confirm.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> It really is weird not searching for other tubes anymore. I deleted all my search alerts on ebay lol.
> 
> These tubes just massage my soul! It's incredible that we can even get them. Even better is getting to share the moment with so many good people I've met on here. Can't wait to see more posts when everyone gets theirs.
> I know not all will gush over them like I have and still am!
> ...


Bro!  This tube has me completely captivated!  I have had mine cooking pretty much non stop, and have about 30 hours on it, and so far it has opened up more and the bass has filled out, and the immersion is in full affect!  Pretty much the entire time I am listening, I am either saying "how the hell is this possible?", or I get so completely lost in the holographic stage, that I forget I even have headphones on and I am transported to another place with just the musicians and me, and time just seems to stand still and it's pure magic!  I really can't believe how good this tube is, and is becoming!     Back to burn in and pure musical bliss.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Rowethren said:


> Anyone who has started to horde Footscray fancy doing a loaner tour? Can't really afford anymore tubes at the moment but I feel I am missing out with my lowly Rochesters


Are you in the US?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Bro!  This tube has me completely captivated!  I have had mine cooking pretty much non stop, and have about 30 hours on it, and so far it has opened up more and the bass has filled out, and the immersion is in full affect!  Pretty much the entire time I am listening, I am either saying "how the hell is this possible?", or I get so completely lost in the holographic stage, that I forget I even have headphones on and I am transported to another place with just the musicians and me, and time just seems to stand still and it's pure magic!  I really can't believe how good this tube is, and is becoming!     Back to burn in and pure musical bliss.


It is Insanity man! You nailed it "how the hell is this possible" 😂😂😂


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> They'll be in Tennessee Monday or Tuesday and at your door Wednesday or Thursday lol


Yeah they are in Tennessee now. Monday maybe.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Yeah they are in Tennessee now. Monday maybe.


Man, I can't wait to hear your reaction!  If there is one thing I am sure about, is that this tube is so insanely good, I am really glad I have 2 more on the way.  I want to be able to enjoy this insanity for as long as possible, and would not be able to rest without knowing I have backups!


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Man, I can't wait to hear your reaction!  If there is one thing I am sure about, is that this tube is so insanely good, I am really glad I have 2 more on the way.  I want to be able to enjoy this insanity for as long as possible, and would not be able to rest without knowing I have backups!


That says a lot. We both have/had many of the same holy grails.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Are you in the US?


Rochesters are hardly ‘lowly’.


----------



## Rowethren

Guidostrunk said:


> Are you in the US?


Sadly in the UK but I wasn't being entirely serious. The Rochester tubes sound pretty damn good and if I hear the Footscray I would only end up buying them so probably best to avoid


----------



## Wes S

The Footscray just opened up to the 4th dimension and I am literally shaking with tears in my eyes listening to this song.  I can barely type this . . .  Holy crap!!!  What the heck is going on!  I am "There".


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Rochesters are hardly ‘lowly’.


You got that right. They are fantastic too. Lol


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> The Footscray just opened up to the 4th dimension and I am literally shaking with tears in my eyes listening to this song.  I can barely type this . . .  Holy crap!!!  What the heck is going on!  I am "There".


Sounds like they are doing their thing. They should be at the pinnacle around 75/80. I noticed no more changes from that point


----------



## Wes S (Jun 5, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Sounds like they are doing their thing. They should be at the pinnacle around 75/80. I noticed no more changes from that point


Bro!  Throw this song on, and take a ride.    I am literally up on my feet dancing!


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> You got that right. They are fantastic too. Lol


I have them in the Woo WA3 right now...👍👍 (the Footscrays are in the MJ-II). Magic with ZMF Auteur in both amps. Oh, for that high-Z Focal Clear with Dekoni fenestrated pads (stock are too squishy)....


----------



## jonathan c

Just in from Langrex:  Brimar CV455 (12AT7) KB/FB (Footscray 1956), black plate, triple mica. £45 each + shipping. About 1/3 less the price of the Footscrays that we know & _love._ I think that the CV455 sound will be better than 2/3 the sound of the CV4033...


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Just in from Langrex:  Brimar CV455 (12AT7) KB/FB (Footscray 1956), black plate, triple mica. £45 each + shipping. About 1/3 less the price of the Footscrays that we know & _love._ I think that the CV455 sound will be better than 2/3 the sound of the CV4033...


I have a pair coming. Definitely waiting to hear your thoughts on the comparison.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Bro!  Throw this song on, and take a ride.    I am literally up on my feet dancing!


I'm all over it as soon as I get home from work bro 😁


----------



## Wes S (Jun 5, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Just in from Langrex:  Brimar CV455 (12AT7) KB/FB (Footscray 1956), black plate, triple mica. £45 each + shipping. About 1/3 less the price of the Footscrays that we know & _love._ I think that the CV455 sound will be better than 2/3 the sound of the CV4033...


Yes sir!  I can't wait to hear about this one, as well.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> My RH-5 is riding the bench behind my Pendant SE at moment, and to tell you the truth the Pendant SE was out performaning my RH-5 before the Footscray, so not sure it can hang either way.  The Pendant SE perhaps just pairs better with my high impedance ZMF dynamics, and perhaps planars would be insane with some Footscray's in the RH-5, but I can't confirm.


When you say that the Pendant SE > RH-5, before Footscray, were the two amps using the same tubes where possible? Tube difference vs circuit / topology difference...?...


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 5, 2021)

The CV455 KB/FB are heating up in the WA3. I like starting tubes out in the WA3 because it is OTL (coupling capacitor?) and no transformer or complex buffer circuitry comes after the tube output. If a tube sounds terrific in the WA3 using a particular headphone, the tube should sound terrific in the WA6 and MJ-II using that headphone. If it did not, there would be an issue with the output transformer or the output buffer respectively. But I know from experience that these stages are of very high quality. So...off we go...


----------



## TK16

My Footscray are being delivered Monday. Can't wait.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Finally get to settle in and jam. Lol


----------



## jonathan c

jonathan c said:


> The CV455 KB/FB are heating up in the WA3. I like starting tubes out in the WA3 because it is OTL (coupling capacitor?) and no transformer or complex buffer circuitry comes after the tube output. If a tube sounds terrific in the WA3 using a particular headphone, the tube should sound terrific in the WA6 and MJ-II using that headphone. If it did not, there would be an issue with the output transformer or the output buffer respectively. But I know from experience that these stages are of very high quality. So...off we go...


Update on the Brimar CV455 KB/FB:
1. The four jazz/R&B recordings used to audition the CV4033 KB/FB were used to audition the CV455 KB/FB.​2. The headphone used was the ZMF Auteur.​3. The h/p/a used were Woo WA3 —> Woo​WA6 —> MJ-II.​4. The sonic attributes of the CV455 are those of the CV4033. The overall level of musical realisation by the CV455 is _really close to that of the CV4033._ If the CV4033 is the ionosphere, the CV455 is the upper stratosphere. The CV4033 has that _ne plus ultra_ quality in its gestalt; the CV455 is ‘only’ outstanding and is just a trace behind. To me, with 95-ish% of the sound and 61-ish% of the price of the CV4033 KB/FB, the CV455 KB/FB loudly declares: “own me!”​5. I did not want to tick off the audiophile boxes one-by-one. I was more interested in the musical narration by the CV455. 
6. I hope that this is of use to you fellow HFers and “tube cases”...😉🤪​


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Update on the Brimar CV455 KB/FB:
> 1. The four jazz/R&B recordings used to audition the CV4033 KB/FB were used to audition the CV455 KB/FB.​2. The headphone used was the ZMF Auteur.​3. The h/p/a used were Woo WA3 —> Woo​WA6 —> MJ-II.​4. The sonic attributes of the CV455 are those of the CV4033. The overall level of musical realisation by the CV455 is _really close to that of the CV4033._ If the CV4033 is the ionosphere, the CV455 is the upper stratosphere. The CV4033 has that _ne plus ultra_ quality in its gestalt; the CV455 is ‘only’ outstanding and is just a trace behind. To me, with 95-ish% of the sound and 61-ish% of the price of the CV4033 KB/FB, the CV455 KB/FB loudly declares: “own me!”​5. I did not want to tick off the audiophile boxes one-by-one. I was more interested in the musical narration by the CV455. ​6. I hope that this is of use to you fellow HFers and “tube cases”...😉🤪​


I was hoping they were that close if not identical! 95% and 61%ish sounds like we are in business for a long time at a cheaper investment. I can't wait to get mine now. 

It's so surreal how abundant this tube is now whether cv4033 or cv455. Un -fricken - believable! Unobtanium for so long.


----------



## JoeyB

Guidostrunk said:


> Then after you spend a bit with the MJ2,  you can send it to @ksorota for a nice cap mod. Lol. There's where the insane change happens.
> 
> Welcome to the thread bro! And thank yourself for finding these recent posts about the Footscray. You just saved yourself a ton of money and time rolling tubes lol.


Thanks, I feel like I cheated to get to these tubes, I did just save a lot of time and money! I saw about cap mod, I need to go back and read that again. I’m trying not to trigger upgraditus until after I get Gumby, and had a chance to break in amp and tubes


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> I was hoping they were that close if not identical! 95% and 61%ish sounds like we are in business for a long time at a cheaper investment. I can't wait to get mine now.
> 
> It's so surreal how abundant this tube is now whether cv4033 or cv455. Un -fricken - believable! Unobtanium for so long.


What this and the last Brimar iteration tells/teaches me is that:
~ well constructed, a triple mica 12AT7 is one hell of a tube and sonically beats double mica 12AT7 (Footscray versus Whyteleafe);​~ with adapters if feasible, the Brimar triple mica 12AT7s are wonderful driver tubes for the h/p/a that can use them;​~ the Footscray, Rochester, and Whyteleafe factories turned out amazing products - even more so when heard sixty+ years later;​~ _the qualitative range of realism among the various Brimar / Mullard 12AT7s from the factories above is audible but NOT WIDE...this is not gold descending to tin;_​~ if asked to rank, my tally goes: CV4033 KB/FB (Footscray), CV455 KB/FB (Footscray), CV4033 KB/FD (Rochester), CV4033 KB/DC (Whyteleafe). Again, refer to the point above;​~ in any event, we answer YES! when we hear “tu-be or not tu-be, that is the question”. 👍🎶​​


----------



## JoeyB

jonathan c said:


> Like you, I purchased an MJ-II immediately before product termination. At first, it was to be black - taken off website; then I reordered - silver, shipped, then taken off website. I had the MJ-II shipped directly to @ksorota who did the capacitor swap. No more describing the benefits of that now: plenty of discussion in this MJ-II forum.
> I am happy that you enjoy the Footscrays. There is nothing like going straight to the top as a veteran or rookie tube roller (I am in between). Believe me, the Footscrays are the peak of the 12AT7 mountains.


Seems like we both lucked into amp at just the right time. I wish I could’ve done cap mod before I even heard amp, but I had to hear amp first and make sure it worked and I liked it. I’m afraid to read about the mod now cause I’m gonna want to do it lol. I still have to get Gumby(hopefully in a couple weeks) in chain first, and I’m already looking at ZMF HP. I love the Footscrays spending a ton of time listening thinking I can’t believe how good this sounds already and getting lost in the music


----------



## jonathan c

JoeyB said:


> Seems like we both lucked into amp at just the right time. I wish I could’ve done cap mod before I even heard amp, but I had to hear amp first and make sure it worked and I liked it. I’m afraid to read about the mod now cause I’m gonna want to do it lol. I still have to get Gumby(hopefully in a couple weeks) in chain first, and I’m already looking at ZMF HP. I love the Footscrays spending a ton of time listening thinking I can’t believe how good this sounds already and getting lost in the music


Better late than never. @ksorota 🥇 for the capacitor replacement. If you thought that the Footscrays take you to new sonic territory now, wait until you hear them post-cap-mod! As I said a while back, the mods turn the MJ-II into “a musically state of the art” headphone amplifier without the “ionospheric” price. In the meantime, 😊 🎶🎶🎶.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 6, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> When you say that the Pendant SE > RH-5, before Footscray, were the two amps using the same tubes where possible? Tube difference vs circuit / topology difference...?...


Yes sir. I was using the Raytheon 7730 Long Plate Square getter in both.  The Pendant SE slightly out resolves the RH-5, and just has more magic with my Verite Closed.  The RH-5 is no slouch, and actually has a very unique soundstage (biggest and widest I have still ever heard), and the best bass response ever with insane grip paired up with my Atticus, so I will be keeping both.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 6, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Update on the Brimar CV455 KB/FB:
> 1. The four jazz/R&B recordings used to audition the CV4033 KB/FB were used to audition the CV455 KB/FB.​2. The headphone used was the ZMF Auteur.​3. The h/p/a used were Woo WA3 —> Woo​WA6 —> MJ-II.​4. The sonic attributes of the CV455 are those of the CV4033. The overall level of musical realisation by the CV455 is _really close to that of the CV4033._ If the CV4033 is the ionosphere, the CV455 is the upper stratosphere. The CV4033 has that _ne plus ultra_ quality in its gestalt; the CV455 is ‘only’ outstanding and is just a trace behind. To me, with 95-ish% of the sound and 61-ish% of the price of the CV4033 KB/FB, the CV455 KB/FB loudly declares: “own me!”​5. I did not want to tick off the audiophile boxes one-by-one. I was more interested in the musical narration by the CV455. ​6. I hope that this is of use to you fellow HFers and “tube cases”...😉🤪​


Thanks bro!  I will be picking up some of those and recommending them as well, as the stock is quite plentiful and the price is right.


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> What this and the last Brimar iteration tells/teaches me is that:
> ~ well constructed, a triple mica 12AT7 is one hell of a tube and sonically beats double mica 12AT7 (Footscray versus Whyteleafe);​~ with adapters if feasible, the Brimar triple mica 12AT7s are wonderful driver tubes for the h/p/a that can use them;​~ the Footscray, Rochester, and Whyteleafe factories turned out amazing products - even more so when heard sixty+ years later;​~ _the qualitative range of realism among the various Brimar / Mullard 12AT7s from the factories above is audible but NOT WIDE...this is not gold descending to tin;_​~ if asked to rank, my tally goes: CV4033 KB/FB (Footscray), CV455 KB/FB (Footscray), CV4033 KB/FD (Rochester), CV4033 KB/DC (Whyteleafe). Again, refer to the point above;​~ in any event, we answer YES! when we hear “tu-be or not tu-be, that is the question”. 👍🎶​​


Amen brother!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well folks. Here's the code list for STC, Brimar and Mullard. There are other plants that produced these tubes. I do believe that the A2900 was produced in the Hammersmith plant. 
I'm sure those others will be impossible to find but who knows. They could pop up at any time. What we do know at this point is Footscray is the champ lol.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Well folks. Here's the code list for STC, Brimar and Mullard. There are other plants that produced these tubes. I do believe that the A2900 was produced in the Hammersmith plant.
> I'm sure those others will be impossible to find but who knows. They could pop up at any time. What we do know at this point is Footscray is the champ lol.


I'd add KB/HR think is Hivac. Have a pair of the ECC82 welded plates.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 6, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Well folks. Here's the code list for STC, Brimar and Mullard. There are other plants that produced these tubes. I do believe that the A2900 was produced in the Hammersmith plant.
> I'm sure those others will be impossible to find but who knows. They could pop up at any time. What we do know at this point is Footscray is the champ lol.


Number one tube on my list to look for, is the one with code KB/N.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 6, 2021)

TK16 said:


> I'd add KB/HR think is Hivac. Have a pair of the ECC82 welded plates.


Dude!  If you ever want to sell those, I'm your huckleberry.  I have been looking for that tube, for years.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Number one tube on my list to look for, is the one with code KB/N.


😂 me too


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> I'd add KB/HR think is Hivac. Have a pair of the ECC82 welded plates.


The Hivac tubes are great tubes.


----------



## TK16

TK16 said:


> I'd add KB/HR think is Hivac. Have a pair of the ECC82 welded plates.


I'll keep that in mind when I decide on them in the near future.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Yes sir. I was using the Raytheon 7730 Long Plate Square getter in both.  The Pendant SE slightly out resolves the RH-5, and just has more magic with my Verite Closed.  The RH-5 is no slouch, and actually has a very unique soundstage (biggest and widest I have still ever heard), and the best bass response ever with insane grip paired up with my Atticus, so I will be keeping both.


Would a 12AT7 be usable in lieu of a 12AU7 in the RH-5? Is that too much gain? The other characteristics should be equal...


----------



## Wes S (Jun 6, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Would a 12AT7 be usable in lieu of a 12AU7 in the RH-5? Is that too much gain? The other characteristics should be equal...


I am not sure, but I actually just emailed Rogue to find out, and it would be game over if I can!  This amp is quite expensive and I don't feel comfortable trying them without the ok from them, or someone that knows for sure.


----------



## leftside

Happy to see you guys enjoying the 12AT7 and variations so much. You made me check the Langrex site and the CV455/12AT7 they have in stock are meant to be some of the best you can buy. Can't believe they have such good stock! I purchased a few of each as backups to pairs I already have: https://www.langrex.co.uk/?s=cv455&post_type=product

If you think these are expensive, check out the prices of mid 50's D getter Mullard and Philips 12AX7's on eBay...

My experience with the 12AT7 is you can't go wrong with black plates, triple mica and D getter. The flying leads you guys have are also meant to be exceptional! Enjoy.

I'll post up pictures of some of my other favorites later today, and then I'll leave you guys alone  I use 12AT7 in my McIntosh amps.


----------



## leftside

Here's a few.
GEC B309 black plate D getter
GEC CV455 black plate D getter
GEC CV6091 triple mica black plate D getter
GEC A2900 triple mica black plate D getter






- Telefunken 6211 long grey plates
- Philips/Amperex Copenhagen 1952 D getter black welded plates (lettering on glass implies Philips Eindhoven/Holland) but codes on base of tube are the factory code for Copenhagen. I've found to always trust the codes over the lettering. I think Langrex has these, but I believe his description is wrong. These are not from a Mullard factory.
- Brimar 6080 triple mica black plates D getter
- Raytheon 6414 triple mica long black plate, tall glass





The 12AT7 and variations is quite the rabbit hole 
http://www.audiotubes.com/12at7.htm


----------



## Guidostrunk

leftside said:


> Here's a few.
> GEC B309 black plate D getter
> GEC CV455 black plate D getter
> GEC CV6091 triple mica black plate D getter
> ...


The question is. Which one is your favorite lol.


----------



## Guidostrunk

leftside said:


> Here's a few.
> GEC B309 black plate D getter
> GEC CV455 black plate D getter
> GEC CV6091 triple mica black plate D getter
> ...


The only 2 tubes I haven't heard is the 6080 and the KB/ZA gateshead..


----------



## Guidostrunk

Never mind. It's only the KB/ZA that I haven't heard. The Brimar is a 6060 yellow t


----------



## TK16

Not sure if it's Heerlen or Hamburg or 1 of each. 1 tube is a very early 45 degree D getter. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips...3-da89-41b9-b7e9-b81f20636bcf&redirect=mobile


----------



## leftside

Guidostrunk said:


> The question is. Which one is your favorite lol.


A2900/CV6091 in amps that have circuits that can take advantage of them. For my current amps, the tubes are more like tube buffers and don't impact the sound too much, so I use cheaper 12AT7's. But, honestly those are all mighty fine tubes. The CV455 that Langrex has are alll worth grabbing before they go.

ZA is GEC/MOV Gateshead factory.


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 7, 2021)

One more happy repercussion with the cap-mod MJ-II / CV4033 Footscray alliance: the inimitable, the renowned Sennheiser HD600 (with Custom Can UK mods) is irradiated with more energy and light. Best of all, the HD600 naturalness and openness flourish in the grandest fashion. If you have the Footscrays and the HD600, and if the HD600 has been out of your ‘rotation’ for a while, please put it back in. You WILL be amazed, delighted, and sleep-deprived.


----------



## Wes S

Lots of killer 12AT7 no doubt, however the only one I need is the Brimar CV4033 Triple Mica Footscray 57'.    Endgame tubes in my opinion.


----------



## Rowethren

I assume the CV455 use the same adapters in the Mjolnir 2 as the CV4033?


----------



## Wes S

Rowethren said:


> I assume the CV455 use the same adapters in the Mjolnir 2 as the CV4033?


Yes sir.


----------



## TK16

Absolutely fantastic tubes, excellent seller.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/194188170144


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Absolutely fantastic tubes, excellent seller.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/194188170144


Yes sir!  Those are in my top 5 of all time.  I am a sucker for that vintage Valvo sound, and those tubes have it.


----------



## TK16

@bcowen does a cv4033 tube use the same settings on Hickok 752 for 12AT7? I'm like 99% positive it's the same.


----------



## Wes S

Looks like someone has been stocking up on those Brimar CV455 Footscray Triple Mica Square Getters, as 18 pieces have been sold over the weekend.  I am about to buy a pair myself.  .  I can't wait to have a couple Square Getter Triple Mica from Footscray added to my collection!


----------



## Wes S

Wes S said:


> I am not sure, but I actually just emailed Rogue to find out, and it would be game over if I can!  This amp is quite expensive and I don't feel comfortable trying them without the ok from them, or someone that knows for sure.


Rogue just replied to my email, and advised not to use 12AT7 in the RH-5, so that's a big bummer.  Oh well, it sounds killer with my 7316 Long Plates anyway.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Rogue just replied to my email, and advised not to use 12AT7 in the RH-5, so that's a big bummer.  Oh well, it sounds killer with my 7316 Long Plates anyway.


Don't use those crappy 7316, send them to me and I will dispose of them "properly" 😆


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Don't use those crappy 7316, send them to me and I will dispose of them "properly" 😆


Not a chance man!  Sorry.


----------



## TK16

Got the tubes, hope I got the testing parameters right. Wonky testing numbers. I'll burn em in some and retest. Just put them in.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Got the tubes, hope I got the testing parameters right. Wonky testing numbers. I'll burn em in some and retest. Just put them in.


How wonkey are they?  I usually get test numbers with my tubes from Tubemonger, but nothing from Pulse on my first one.


----------



## jonathan c

The Eindhoven CV455 s (Mullard) are in; it may be a bit before break-in and audition. The Footscray CV455 and CV4033 are happy in the amplifiers as am I....don’t want to force the issue....🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> How wonkey are they?  I usually get test numbers with my tubes from Tubemonger, but nothing from Pulse on my first one.


1 tube around 3,000-2,900 other roughly 3,800-4,000. I'm using the 12AT7 setting to test. Gm testing is brutal. Takes forever checking plate 1 and 2. nothing wrong with anything on the tubes ie gas, shorts, noise and microphonics. If I`m not using the correct parameters, might be ok. 
Sonically they might be my number 1 tube. Bass is the best I ever heard.


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> The Eindhoven CV455 s (Mullard) are in; it may be a bit before break-in and audition. The Footscray CV455 and CV4033 are happy in the amplifiers as am I....don’t want to force the issue....🤷🏻‍♂️


The listing is confusing. It says Eindhoven but that triangle code on the bottom says Copenhagen. Very strange. Usually Eindhoven begins with a 6


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> 1 tube around 3,000-2,900 other roughly 3,800-4,000. I'm using the 12AT7 setting to test. Gm testing is brutal. Takes forever checking plate 1 and 2. nothing wrong with anything on the tubes ie gas, shorts, noise and microphonics. If I`m not using the correct parameters, might be ok.
> Sonically they might be my number 1 tube. Bass is the best I ever heard.


I had no doubts about the bass bro. Lol. I knew you'd love it! 😂


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> The Eindhoven CV455 s (Mullard) are in; it may be a bit before break-in and audition. The Footscray CV455 and CV4033 are happy in the amplifiers as am I....don’t want to force the issue....🤷🏻‍♂️


Do they have welded plates? If so I'm almost certain they're Copenhagen.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> I had no doubts about the bass bro. Lol. I knew you'd love it! 😂


I've heard a lot of Bimar tubes and sold most of those. Not a fan of the Brimar sound signature but these are stunning tubes. I do have the 1 pair of the square getter 1955 ECC82 left but I think I sold you the other. These Brimar are in a class all by itself.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Do they have welded plates? If so I'm almost certain they're Copenhagen.


I'd say if these tubes have the Copenhagen triangle between the pins is a Copenhagen.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wait until they burn in bro!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Does that look like a 4 or a triangle Tom. If a 4 it could be early production Eindhoven.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Do they have welded plates? If so I'm almost certain they're Copenhagen.


If they have a 4 on the bottom, it is Eindhoven, and Copenhagen has a big wide Triangle on the bottom.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Does that look like a 4 or a triangle Tom. If a 4 it could be early production Eindhoven.


Eindhoven, no doubt.


----------



## Wes S

To all,

I have been researching the Eindhoven and Copenhagen tubes for a good while now, and those from Langrex are Eindhoven.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Eindhoven, no doubt.


Was hard to tell. Initial look at the link I thought triangle then after looking again I thought 4 lol


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Does that look like a 4 or a triangle Tom. If a 4 it could be early production Eindhoven.


No idea, printing on my Copenhagen is not perfect. Tends to run. I'll post my Copenhagen pic. Other tube isn't readable any more but it was a triangle when I got them.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> No idea, printing on my Copenhagen is not perfect. Tends to run. I'll post my Copenhagen pic. Other tube isn't readable any more but it was a triangle when I got them.


That's a Copenhagen.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> That's a Copenhagen.


Which pic? Mines a Copenhagen and "4" is Endihoven I take it. Didn't know that thanks.


----------



## Wes S

I am not an artist, but this is what I have learned.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 7, 2021)

TK16 said:


> Which pic? Mines a Copenhagen and "4" is Endihoven I take it. Didn't know that thanks.


Second pic.


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> No idea, printing on my Copenhagen is not perfect. Tends to run. I'll post my Copenhagen pic. Other tube isn't readable any more but it was a triangle when I got them.


The TK is below the base of a triangle there in the lower picture


----------



## TK16

jonathan c said:


> The TK is below the base of a triangle there in the lower picture


So my Copenhagens are Copenhagens? 😂


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Do they have welded plates? If so I'm almost certain they're Copenhagen.


Welded plates; d getter


----------



## TK16

Heard enough of the 57 Footscray and ordered another pair. Seller said the tubes tested NOS at 5,600-6,000. I believe him. I'll retest after burn in. Killer tubes no doubt and a warmish sound sig that isn't a slouch mids or highs.


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> So my Copenhagens are Copenhagens? 😂


Tube or lager?


----------



## TK16

jonathan c said:


> Tube or lager?


I'll take door #3 Bob, hope it isn't lifetime worth of various GE tubes.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> I am not an artist, but this is what I have learned.


A grown-up kid’s treasure map 🏴‍☠️ ...


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> I'll take door #3 Bob, hope it isn't lifetime worth of various GE tubes.


Let’s Make Break a Deal...😄😡👎...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Really curious about those Eindhovens bro lol


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> @bcowen does a cv4033 tube use the same settings on Hickok 752 for 12AT7? I'm like 99% positive it's the same.


It should.  It's a direct (electrical) equivalent to an ECC81 or in USA-ian speak a 12AT7.

I have a couple of 6SN7 subs with flying leads, and it takes longer mashing on the GM button to read than most other tubes.  Don't know why, they just do.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> It should.  It's a direct (electrical) equivalent to an ECC81 or in USA-ian speak a 12AT7.
> 
> I have a couple of 6SN7 subs with flying leads, and it takes longer mashing on the GM button to read than most other tubes.  Don't know why, they just do.


I noticed the Gm testing was not pleasant to say the least.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The whole philips code thing was driving me nuts so I pulled up the Frank Pocnet code list I had book marked lol. 
I have never seen a 4 code on a tube before. I mean never lol. I remembered that Eindhoven was the only tube that used numbers as their code. And that was based on my limited knowledge of Eindhoven tubes in regards to the e88cc variants. The only two numbers I've seen in the past was the number 6 and the number 8, but 1, 2 , 3 , 7  are also codes for Eindhoven. 

If you look at the list. The number 4 would be Venolanda S.A. Venezuela. So.... TKB 4( either R or P) following the number 4. So ... 
TKB= ecc81 4(?) P = December 1951 and R = January 1952 ... I think lol. 





Here's the symbol codes.




Honestly I really don't know and all this has hurt my brain and ruined my buzz 😂😂😂 
Sometimes the OCD gets me. 
If those are Venolanda. I'm about to see a pair soon because I'm going to grab a pair. 

It's 2021 and all of the sudden extremely rare and hard to get tubes are popping up in abundance. What a time to be a tube roller


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 7, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> The whole philips code thing was driving me nuts so I pulled up the Frank Pocnet code list I had book marked lol.
> I have never seen a 4 code on a tube before. I mean never lol. I remembered that Eindhoven was the only tube that used numbers as their code. And that was based on my limited knowledge of Eindhoven tubes in regards to the e88cc variants. The only two numbers I've seen in the past was the number 6 and the number 8, but 1, 2 , 3 , 7  are also codes for Eindhoven.
> 
> If you look at the list. The number 4 would be Venolanda S.A. Venezuela. So.... TKB 4( either R or P) following the number 4. So ...
> ...


This makes me wonder:  did solid-state grow (but not sonically flourish) partly because vacuum tube source nomenclature became too complicated 😲😕🤨? How would a user figure out where a replacement tube was coming from?...


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> This makes me wonder:  did solid-state grow (but not sonically flourish) because vacuum tube source nomenclature became too complicated 😲😕🤨? How would a user figure out where a replacement tube was coming from?...


Man does it hurt my head. Whoever thought up Philips code system was definitely high on something 😂


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 7, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> It's 2021 and all of the sudden extremely rare and hard to get tubes are popping up in abundance. What a time to be a tube roller


Versus:
When was the last time you heard anyone say “that op amp really kicks arse - it is so much better than discrete transistors - it will be a collector’s item”...?


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Versus:
> When was the last time you heard anyone say “that op amp really kicks arse - it is so much better than discrete transistors - it will be a collector’s item”...?


😂😂😂


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Versus:
> When was the last time you heard anyone say “that op amp really kicks arse - it is so much better than discrete transistors - it will be a collector’s item”...?


How are those tubes bro? Any good?


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> How are those tubes bro? Any good?


I have not yet put in the Eindhovens (at least they are welded plate, d getter). Savoring still the 455 / 4033...🥰...


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Man does it hurt my head. Whoever thought up Philips code system was definitely high on something 😂


What about the Dutch language?...


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> What about the Dutch language?...


Yeah that too. Lol.


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> I have not yet put in the Eindhovens (at least they are welded plate, d getter). Savoring still the 455 / 4033...🥰...


It's so hard to pull those tubes out man. I hate stockpiling tubes I won't use as well. May have to deplete a few pair to make room for more Footscrays lol


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> It's so hard to pull those tubes out man. I hate stockpiling tubes I won't use as well. May have to deplete a few pair to make room for more Footscrays lol


A great thing, of many, about the CV455 Footscrays is that being 95-ish% of the CV4033 Footscrays, one can use the 455 to ‘rest’ the 4033 and not feel short-changed about the sound. Prolong 4033 life...


----------



## Wes S

I am with Sam, and would love to know how those "Eindhoven" sound.  Here is another gentle nudge from me.   That's the only tube I am curious about, other than my Footscray's.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 8, 2021)

All this Eindhoven talk is confusing the crap out of me?   Almost every big tube dealer I have come across with legit tubes has listed the weird looking 4 as Eindhoven, and I took their word.

Hell, one of my better resources for tube talk says so as well?  This guy seems to know his stuff?  At least I thought. . .





From the same place and guy, that has some pretty detailed descriptions?





Also, there have been a couple ebay listings all saying the weird looking 4 is Eindhoven.

Then you got Frank's pocket book, which I would think is correct, saying something totally different?

What the hell?  Anyways, I just listened to my Footscray's and whatever that welded plate tube is, it sure has it's work cut out for it, if it is gonna hang with the CV4033.

Sorry for adding to the confusion yesterday with my little sketch.   As of right now, I have no freaking idea if there was ever an Eindhoven ECC81?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> All this Eindhoven talk is confusing the crap out of me?   Almost every big tube dealer I have come across with legit tubes has listed the weird looking 4 as Eindhoven, and I took their word.
> 
> Hell, one of my better resources for tube talk says so as well?  This guy seems to know his stuff?  At least I thought. . .
> 
> ...


It's so confusing bro. Then you have other sites saying some tubes were coded wrong 😂😂😂 
Either way. Any tube going forward has big shoes to fill LOL


----------



## Wes S (Jun 8, 2021)

I have fully burned in my first Footscray Triple Mica, and man oh man, I have never been so blown away by the sound of my system!  The tube hunter/collector in me is dying to come out and look/find another tube, but all I have to do is fire up the Footscray and listen for a few seconds and I am totally content again.  I have a feeling this internal battle will continue for a while as habits are hard to break, but I really don't see any tube besting the Footscray or even coming close for that matter.  

Just took delivery of my 2nd one, with a 3rd on the way, and this tube sure looks like it means business!   I love how simple yet effective the packaging is, and as Sam has mentioned before how freakin cool is the box they come in!  Brimar sure had it figured out from the start.  Long live Brimar!


----------



## ksorota

Wes S said:


> I have had my eye on those for days, but just can't bring myself to spend that kind of cash on a hunch. I am running the 7316 Long Plate Foil D Getters these days, and am quite happy staying there.  However, if I had some extra cash I would be all over those.


https://www.tubemonger.com/Brimar_CV4034_NOS_NIB_1970_Prem_CV4003_STC_England_p/2020m.htm

Any thoughts on how close this tube could come for a fraction of the price?  Description states Rochester vs. Footscray, but at least they also have more than 1.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm with you bro. I'm holding off on tubes for now. I'm getting one more pair of the cv4033 and then waiting for the mercury streamer to hit the market. Just picked up a gumby( thanks again Keith) and my stack is complete.


----------



## Wes S

ksorota said:


> https://www.tubemonger.com/Brimar_CV4034_NOS_NIB_1970_Prem_CV4003_STC_England_p/2020m.htm
> 
> Any thoughts on how close this tube could come for a fraction of the price?  Description states Rochester vs. Footscray, but at least they also have more than 1.


I actually have 2 pairs of those, and they are great tubes, but they are nowhere near the Footscray CV4033.  The CV4034 is a warm tube with killer bass, but lacks the clarity/transparency in the mids, and especially vocals of the Footscray CV4033.


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> https://www.tubemonger.com/Brimar_CV4034_NOS_NIB_1970_Prem_CV4003_STC_England_p/2020m.htm
> 
> Any thoughts on how close this tube could come for a fraction of the price?  Description states Rochester vs. Footscray, but at least they also have more than 1.


Pulse has the Footscray version Keith. They even have a select laboratory batch as well. I'd imagine they'd sound phenomenal


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm with you bro. I'm holding off on tubes for now. I'm getting one more pair of the cv4033 and then waiting for the mercury streamer to hit the market. Just picked up a gumby( thanks again Keith) and my stack is complete.


Heck yeah man!  I loved my Gumby when I had it, and I can only imagine how good it pairs with your cap modded MJ2.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 8, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Pulse has the Footscray version Keith. They even have a select laboratory batch as well. I'd imagine they'd sound phenomenal


I would love to hear that Footscray CV4034 lab version, and actually know someone in the other forum that bought one.  I imagine he should be getting it any day now, and I can't wait to hear his thoughts, however $221 a piece is a bit steep for me.


----------



## ksorota

Wes S said:


> I would love to hear that Footscray CV4034 lab version, and actually know someone in the other forum that bought one.  I imagine he should be getting it any day now, and I can't wait to hear his thoughts.


I also would love to give it a go, but that price is too hard to take right now.  Maybe they will get some more in and provide everyone here a discount, wink wink!


----------



## jonathan c

Besides containing a number of “milestones” in my family, 2021 is THE year of the Footscray and it’s not half done! Using another pugilistic analogy (😒), in headphone audio there is no better jab-cross combination than the CV455 F/B - CV4033 F/B..they K/B (kick/butt).


----------



## Wes S (Jun 8, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Besides containing a number of “milestones” in my family, 2021 is THE year of the Footscray and it’s not half done! Using another pugilistic analogy (😒), in headphone audio there is no better jab-cross combination than the CV455 F/B - CV4033 F/B..they K/B (kick/butt).


Nice man!  I love reading your post.  I am just a bit curious how they differ?  Would you say one is a bit stronger in a certain area, or is it to hard to pinpoint?  I am trying to decide on buying another CV4033 or the CV455, and any info would be helpful.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> I would love to hear that Footscray CV4034 lab version, and actually know someone in the other forum that bought one.  I imagine he should be getting it any day now, and I can't wait to hear his thoughts, however $221 a piece is a bit steep for me.


Pulse is down to one of these...restock seems unlikely...


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> Pulse is down to one of these...restock seems unlikely...


I wish someone would just buy that last one, so I am not tempted!


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Nice man!  I love reading your post.  I am just a bit curious how they differ?  Would you say one is a bit stronger in a certain area, or is it to hard to pinpoint?  I am trying to decide on buying another CV4033 or the CV455, and any info would be helpful.


Back in post #3,764, I did not check the audiophile boxes in auditioning the CV455 because it was _so close to_ the CV4033 in totality. _I still feel that_ the CV455 is “95”% of the CV4033 at “61”% of the price. Clearly, the 4033 for me is _ne plus ultra _(that phrase again!). With the 455, the “95%” is across the board - it is not, say, “100%” in one attribute then “90%” in another. That adds to the allure of the CV455. Your choice is really a wonderful dilemma 🤔🤪😄...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> I would love to hear that Footscray CV4034 lab version, and actually know someone in the other forum that bought one.  I imagine he should be getting it any day now, and I can't wait to hear his thoughts, however $221 a piece is a bit steep for me.


Yeah. That price is way out of line lol.


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> I also would love to give it a go, but that price is too hard to take right now.  Maybe they will get some more in and provide everyone here a discount, wink wink!


Here Keith. This is the street version of CV4034. The CV491. Also , it's a Footscray and much cheaper. 😁
https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/ecc82-cv491-brimar-kb-fb-17mm-plate-nos-valve-tube/


----------



## Wes S (Jun 8, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Here Keith. This is the street version of CV4034. The CV491. Also , it's a Footscray and much cheaper. 😁
> https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/ecc82-cv491-brimar-kb-fb-17mm-plate-nos-valve-tube/


Nice!  I just bought a pair of those CV491 Footscray D Getters, and can't wait to hear them in my RH-5.  I have a feeling these are going to freaking rock in my RH-5, and thanks for the link man!  Keith I left some for you too. 

I also picked up a CV455, and now I am done (for now).  This thread is so bad for my bank account, but my ears say otherwise!

Long live Footscray tubes!


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 8, 2021)

Wes S said:


> Nice!  I just bought a pair of those CV491 Footscray D Getters, and can't wait to hear them in my RH-5.  I have a feeling these are going to freaking rock in my RH-5, and thanks for the link man!  Keith I left some for you too.
> 
> I also picked up a CV455, and now I am done (for now).  This thread is so bad for my bank account, but my ears say otherwise!
> 
> Long live Footscray tubes!


What will be interesting, at least to me, is CV491 KB/FB versus Raytheon 7730 versus RCA clear top 12AU7....the last two I have rotated in cap-mod, external-ps Liquid Platinum........Hooray for Footscray!


----------



## ksorota

Wes S said:


> Nice!  I just bought a pair of those CV491 Footscray D Getters, and can't wait to hear them in my RH-5.  I have a feeling these are going to freaking rock in my RH-5, and thanks for the link man!  Keith I left some for you too.
> 
> I also picked up a CV455, and now I am done (for now).  This thread is so bad for my bank account, but my ears say otherwise!
> 
> Long live Footscray tubes!




I just joined you in picking up a pair of these "street" tubes.  Hopefully Langrex ships as quickly as pulse!


----------



## Wes S (Jun 8, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> What will be interesting, at least to me, is CV491 KB/FB versus Raytheon 7730 versus RCA clear top 12AU7....the last two I have rotated in cap-mod, external-ps Liquid Platinum....


RCA clear top?  Interesting curve ball, as those never did anything for me, but I only tried one in a Bottlehead Crack.  The RCA did not even come close to the 7730 in the BHC, by the way. I am definitely looking forward to a shootout with my 7316, 7730, and CV491.


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> I just joined you in picking up a pair of these "street" tubes.  Hopefully Langrex ships as quickly as pulse!


In which h/p/a will you be using the CV491?


----------



## ksorota

I will be modding a LP this week, so will get time in their; also will spend a lot of time in my WA7tp.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 8, 2021)

ksorota said:


> I just joined you in picking up a pair of these "street" tubes.  Hopefully Langrex ships as quickly as pulse!


At that price, for a Footscray D Getter CV491, it's a steal!  I have seen CV491 Rochester O Getters a bunch (usually priced around $100 a piece), but never a D Getter from Footscray and I am pumped to hear them.  I think we might be in for another special tube.


----------



## Rowethren

Wes S said:


> I have fully burned in my first Footscray Triple Mica, and man oh man, I have never been so blown away by the sound of my system!  The tube hunter/collector in me is dying to come out and look/find another tube, but all I have to do is fire up the Footscray and listen for a few seconds and I am totally content again.  I have a feeling this internal battle will continue for a while as habits are hard to break, but I really don't see any tube besting the Footscray or even coming close for that matter.
> 
> Just took delivery of my 2nd one, with a 3rd on the way, and this tube sure looks like it means business!   I love how simple yet effective the packaging is, and as Sam has mentioned before how freakin cool is the box they come in!  Brimar sure had it figured out from the start.  Long live Brimar!


Damn and I thought my Rochester triple micas has big tips


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 8, 2021)

1+ ITEM ABOUT MY (OUR) FAVOURITE 12AT7:

Because of its colossal ability to convey the real sound of instruments and voice _in real space_, the CV4033 KB/FB will *easily *convey differences / artifacts created in digital to analog conversion.

I noticed this as follows: I usually use a Mojo Audio EVO Mystique DAC, a non-over-sampling, R2R, direct-coupled type using balanced XLR cable when listening to CD. I swapped in a Copland 415 hpa / DAC, using the DAC portion only. This uses two ESS 9018 DAC chips which are of the sigma-delta variety.

With these, the frequency response, tonal balance seemed fine. However, instrument placement was imprecise if not scattered; voices took on a ‘ring’ and seemed disembodied from the singer(s). In the area of timbre, mass bowing of violins lost the aura of ‘gut on strings’ and took on ‘steeliness’ (ok for the black & gold, not otherwise). A clear departure from what the Mystique conveyed.

@Wes S, with the Sonnet Morpheus this occurrence should not be an issue. @Guidostrunk, if the Gumby (Gugnir, I assume) is a multibit, should not be an issue.

MORAL:  The CV4033 KB/FB demands the best possible / feasible in the sound chain before it. But you fellows already knew that...😉👍


----------



## jonathan c

Rowethren said:


> Damn and I thought my Rochester triple micas has big tips


Tips?, bah! Is the search on for a Footscray (or any) quad mica?...🤪😜


----------



## Wes S (Jun 8, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> 1+ ITEM ABOUT MY (OUR) FAVOURITE 12AT7:
> 
> Because of its colossal ability to convey the real sound of instruments and voice _in real space_, the CV4033 KB/FB will *easily *convey differences / artifacts created in digital to analog conversion.
> 
> ...


Bro, I just looked up the Mojo EVO Mystique DAC and that is a serious piece of gear!  As for my Sonnet Morpheus it is no slouch either, and the Gumby well it has it's own nickname so that says it all.    I absolutely believe a DAC is the most important part of the chain.

Great description of the Footscray CV4033, by the way.  I definitely could not have said it so eloquently.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Bro, I just looked up the Mojo EVO Mystique DAC and that is a serious piece of gear!  As for my Sonnet Morpheus it is no slouch either, and the Gumby well it has it's own nickname so that says it all.    I absolutely believe a DAC is the most important part of the chain.
> 
> Great description of the Footscray CV4033, by the way.  I definitely could not have said it so eloquently.


Thanks...I’m just trying to state what is obvious to my ears.**

If the music source is in digital lossless form, the DAC is the most important part of the chain.

If the music source is vinyl, to me, the phono preamplifier is the most important part of the chain because of the very low signal levels which have to be passed through without alteration.

** to me - and I believe to you, Guido, Keith and others on the DarkVoice & 6SN7 threads - music is more than a commodity. Listening to it, and it alone, IS an enriching activity. PS, I _love_ to work out and HARD; but I will never have earbuds on... I can “listen” to my favourite tracks in my head by memory...🎶🎶 🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## ksorota

That price tag😔


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> That price tag😔


😂😂😂


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> RCA clear top?  Interesting curve ball, as those never did anything for me, but I only tried one in a Bottlehead Crack.  The RCA did not even come close to the 7730 in the BHC, by the way. I am definitely looking forward to a shootout with my 7316, 7730, and CV491.


I would love to hear a BHC with circuitry that could handle the gain of the 12AT7....BHC + speedball + capzillas....1 GEC CV5008 + 1 Brimar CV4033 KB/FB....💭🎶💭🎶....


----------



## Guidostrunk

Anxiously waiting on your final thoughts Tom on the Footscray. I know how you operate though. Lol.

100 hours. Some rolling. Then the post 😂

Most suspenseful wait ever😁


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Anxiously waiting on your final thoughts Tom on the Footscray. I know how you operate though. Lol.
> 
> 100 hours. Some rolling. Then the post 😂
> 
> Most suspenseful wait ever😁


Final thoughts later on as I believe tubes have a combo of burn in and getting used to tubes. I equate that with listening to 1 set of cans for a long time and then putting on another pair and it sounding off. At worst this is a top 5 tube all time and at best the tubes are my number 1 tube all time. Judging by the sheer number of tubes I've rolled says a lot.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Final thoughts later on as I believe tubes have a combo of burn in and getting used to tubes. I equate that with listening to 1 set of cans for a long time and then putting on another pair and it sounding off. At worst this is a top 5 tube all time and at best the tubes are my number 1 tube all time. Judging by the sheer number of tubes I've rolled says a lot.


Good stuff man!  Brain burn in with this tube is definitely just as important as physical burn in, and that is great advice for others following along.  You are definitely a tube rolling Jedi, and if the Footscray does not become your number 1, I will be quite surprised.  Just out of curiosity what is your current number 1?


----------



## Wes S (Jun 9, 2021)

A few of the thoughts that repeatedly come to mind when listening with the Footscray Triple Mica 57', "Wow!". . . "Holy crap!" . . ."Oh my word!" . . . "Damn, I have never heard that before!" . . ."What the heck!?" . . ."Where am I?" . . . "How is this possible?" . . ."This is insane!" . . . "I am there!"  

When I take a toke or 2 and get totally relaxed, stand up and close my eyes while listening with the Footscray, the stage is so immersive and everything sounds so real, that I literally feel like the musicians and I are in our own world!  Talk about an escape!


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Good stuff man!  Brain burn in with this tube is definitely just as important as physical burn in, and that is great advice for others following along.  You are definitely a tube rolling Jedi, and if the Footscray does not become your number 1, I will be quite surprised.  Just out of curiosity what is your current number 1?


7316 LP I think. Have a top 20 best list in my profile. Top 7 or 8 are the best of the best and the rest are very good to excellent. Definitely a step down in satisfaction from the top ones.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> 7316 LP I think. Have a top 20 best list in my profile. Top 7 or 8 are the best of the best and the rest are very good to excellent. Definitely a step down in satisfaction from the top ones.


That's a killer list, and I especially like your number 2.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> That's a killer list, and I especially like your number 2.


Thanks. The first 2 get extended playtime together more than any other combo. More like a 1a and 1b.


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> Final thoughts later on as I believe tubes have a combo of burn in and getting used to tubes. I equate that with listening to 1 set of cans for a long time and then putting on another pair and it sounding off. At worst this is a top 5 tube all time and at best the tubes are my number 1 tube all time. Judging by the sheer number of tubes I've rolled says a lot.


Change of avatar?...


----------



## TK16

jonathan c said:


> Change of avatar?...


Possibly. 😉


----------



## M-83

Gumby & MJ2 arrived yesterday having arrived from a great seller in Spain.  Sounds as awesome as I can remember

Have also rolled in some Amperex Orange Globe tubes ready to try out this evening


----------



## Guidostrunk

2 days without any tunes 😞
Gumby was delivered today. Gonna be a long and fun evening/night lol.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> 2 days without any tunes 😞
> Gumby was delivered today. Gonna be a long and fun evening/night lol.


Is the Gumby the multibit version? Being balanced, I think you are in for more musical revelation, astral traveling, from the CV4033 with Gumby...(“beam me up, Footscray”). You should dress for the occasion:


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Is the Gumby the multibit version? Being balanced, I think you are in for more musical revelation, astral traveling, from the CV4033 with Gumby...(“beam me up, Footscray”). You should dress for the occasion:


Yes sir. I'm not a fan of DS. Lol.
 Gen 5 /A2


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> Is the Gumby the multibit version? Being balanced, I think you are in for more musical revelation, astral traveling, from the CV4033 with Gumby...(“beam me up, Footscray”). You should dress for the occasion:


Good point about going balanced!  Sam, I have a feeling we will be reading some good stuff from you shortly.  I loved my time with the Gumby when I had mine, and can only imagine the insane dynamics coming your way.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 9, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Is the Gumby the multibit version? Being balanced, I think you are in for more musical revelation, astral traveling, from the CV4033 with Gumby...(“beam me up, Footscray”). You should dress for the occasion:


Just for reference, a Gumby can only be call "Gumby" with the multibit option.   Gungnir + Multibit = Gumby, and I don't think the DS version ever got a clever nickname.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> 2 days without any tunes 😞
> Gumby was delivered today. Gonna be a long and fun evening/night lol.


What happened to your tube dac? I haven't listened to mine in months.


----------



## M-83

Guidostrunk said:


> 2 days without any tunes 😞
> Gumby was delivered today. Gonna be a long and fun evening/night lol.


Awesome dude, enjoy!


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> What happened to your tube dac? I haven't listened to mine in months.


Every time I convince myself I'm going to pull it out. I go down to the game room and grab it out of the closet. Open the box. Look at it. Then return back upstairs without it. 
It's just too freaking big 😂😂😂

I have not listened to it since it returned from being cap modded last summer. 🤣


----------



## Guidostrunk

M-83 said:


> Gumby & MJ2 arrived yesterday having arrived from a great seller in Spain.  Sounds as awesome as I can remember
> 
> Have also rolled in some Amperex Orange Globe tubes ready to try out this evening


Glad to see you back in business my friend!


----------



## M-83

Guidostrunk said:


> Glad to see you back in business my friend!


Cheers pal!  Delighted to be back with my favourite gear!


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Every time I convince myself I'm going to pull it out. I go down to the game room and grab it out of the closet. Open the box. Look at it. Then return back upstairs without it.
> It's just too freaking big 😂😂😂
> 
> I have not listened to it since it returned from being cap modded last summer. 🤣


What tubes are in the DAC...are they usable elsewhere in your system(s)?...


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Cheers pal!  Delighted to be back with my favourite gear!


...to captivate your favourite ears...


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> What tubes are in the DAC...are they usable elsewhere in your system(s)?...


None atm. I have adapters to use 12at7. Stock is 6922.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Derail incoming......

There's a reason why I take gear reviews, and comparisons with a grain of salt. The Gumby demolishes the BF2. Sheesh , I thought it was way closer than this. It's not even close. I literally had myself prepared for a critical listening session. 

I literally feel like I've become one with these Footscrays, and the gumby isn't even in INL spec yet 
, and the MJ2 isn't up to temp yet 😂😂😂


----------



## TK16

I retested the Footscray now I got 4,700-4,800 and 4,700-3,300 after 55 hrs of burn in. Think originally I got 4,000-4,400 3,000-3,000. Really strange. This is my first CV4033 tubes. Really weird. Going to test again 100 hrs.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Every time I convince myself I'm going to pull it out. I go down to the game room and grab it out of the closet. Open the box. Look at it. Then return back upstairs without it.
> It's just too freaking big 😂😂😂
> 
> I have not listened to it since it returned from being cap modded last summer. 🤣


You did not even try it out? Would been the first thing I did. It is rather big. I like being able to using a 3rd pair of tubes in the chain when I use it.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> You did not even try it out? Would been the first thing I did. It is rather big. I like being able to using a 3rd pair of tubes in the chain when I use it.


I have literally nowhere to put it. I've thought about longer cables and setting it on a stand but...... 😂


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> I retested the Footscray now I got 4,700-4,800 and 4,700-3,300 after 55 hrs of burn in. Think originally I got 4,000-4,400 3,000-3,000. Really strange. This is my first CV4033 tubes. Really weird. Going to test again 100 hrs.


Are you and Sanjiv at Pulse Engineering using different makes of tube testers or maybe even the same model but with different calibration?...🧐🤷🏻...


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> I have literally nowhere to put it. I've thought about longer cables and setting it on a stand but...... 😂


Do you have a cable long enough to reach @ksorota’s house 😜?...


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> There's a reason why I take gear reviews and comparisons with a grain of salt.


Especially those _dominated_ by charts, graphs, scatter plots, etc of variables that have tangential relationships to what one actually hears...🤨...


----------



## TK16

jonathan c said:


> Are you and Sanjiv at Pulse Engineering using different makes of tube testers or maybe even the same model but with different calibration?...🧐🤷🏻...


Not sure what tester they use. Was concerned about the difference between the 2 tubes originally. They said the tubes tested between 5,600-6,000 which is pretty balanced. Both tubes should have a tight range at whatever my tester reads. After some burn in 3 out of the 4 triodes test very similar. The tube at 4,700-3,300 should not have that wide a gap if the seller has 5,600-6,000. That Mullard 6201 pair tests about 1,000 less than upscale and is similarly balanced between both testers.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Man oh man! I do not want to take these cans off! 😂😂😂


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Man oh man! I do not want to take these cans off! 😂😂😂


So what is the gear-in-use lineup?: source, power conditioner, cables...the works...


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> So what is the gear-in-use lineup?: source, power conditioner, cables...the works...


Laptop > Tidal hifi > Gumby > MJ2 > Norne Solvine > Clear Pro OG 

Conditioner is a Monster Power HTS1650.


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> So what is the gear-in-use lineup?: source, power conditioner, cables...the works...


I'm going to be dumping the laptop when the pi2design mercury streamer hits the market. Even less clutter once I get it lol


----------



## Guidostrunk

Man I wish I didn't have to work today 😂


----------



## Wes S (Jun 10, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Man I wish I didn't have to work today 😂


I hear ya bro!  I just picked up an OZ of some most purple colored Obama Kush I have ever seen last night, and would much rather be sitting at home jammin out and puffing the good stuff.  The Footscray consumes my thoughts all day every day lately, and I just can't get enough!

Come on 5pm!


----------



## Wes S (Jun 10, 2021)

For those who have ordered from Langrex, do they provide tracking info or send an order confirmation?  I have yet to hear a peep from them about my 2 orders?

Edit  -   I emailed Langrex and within minutes got a reply and tracking info for both orders.  Now, that's some customer service!


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm going to be dumping the laptop when the pi2design mercury streamer hits the market. Even less clutter once I get it lol


Plus a better source - less potential for electrical noise...


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> I hear ya bro!  I just picked up an OZ of some most purple colored Obama Kush I have ever seen last night, and would much rather be sitting at home jammin out and puffing the good stuff.  The Footscray consumes my thoughts all day every day lately, and I just can't get enough!
> 
> Come on 5pm!


Any day ending in “y” is one for Footscray...


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Just for reference, a Gumby can only be call "Gumby" with the multibit option.   Gungnir + Multibit = Gumby, and I don't think the DS version ever got a clever nickname.


...it could should be “fratDAC”...


----------



## Guidostrunk

@Wes S you gotta try the 99 problems. Scored a half on the way home. 😂
Now I have 100 problems. The Footscray are killing me right now 🤣


----------



## Wes S (Jun 10, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> @Wes S you gotta try the 99 problems. Scored a half on the way home. 😂
> Now I have 100 problems. The Footscray are killing me right now 🤣


Heck yeah!  I will add that to my list of strains to try, and right back at ya with the Obama Kush.  This Obama Kush, is some of the best I have had, and I have been a daily consumer/connoisseur for the last 25 years.  

Edit - I just looked up that 99 problems and it's a Sativa dominant so should be great for some daytime listening.  I myself am more of an Indica guy, but I love a good Sativa every now and then to mix it up, and especially for day time use.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Laptop > Tidal hifi > Gumby > MJ2 > Norne Solvine > Clear Pro OG
> 
> Conditioner is a Monster Power HTS1650.


Are Tidal>Gumby, Gumby>MJ2, Norne Solvine balanced XLR?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Tidal is usb from laptop. Gumby to Mj2 to Clear is all balanced. My Norne Solvine is balanced.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Heck yeah!  I will add that to my list of strains to try, and right back at ya with the Obama Kush.  This Obama Kush, is some of the best I have had, and I have been a daily consumer/connoisseur for the last 25 years.
> 
> Edit - I just looked up that 99 problems and it's a Sativa dominant so should be great for some daytime listening.  I myself am more of an Indica guy, but I love a good Sativa every now and then to mix it up, and especially for day time use.


I'm right with you. It was time for a shake up 😂
Indica for the last 2 months


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Tidal is usb from laptop. Gumby to Mj2 to Clear is all balanced. My Norne Solvine is balanced.


Really nice setup to only get better. When you replace the laptop with the streamer, that’s ⬆️ (and gives you the chance to replace USB connection with balanced coaxial or with optical? ⬆️ #2 )


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks bro! 
I'm really looking forward to ditching the laptop.


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 10, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Tidal is usb from laptop. Gumby to Mj2 to Clear is all balanced. My Norne Solvine is balanced.


Seeing the MJ-II atop the Gumby atop the HTS 1600, two things occur to me: (a) the gear does not take up huge space; (b) to have discontinued the MJ for ‘size considerations’ is pure bunk.

It bears consideration: with your music source seriously upgraded (streamer vs laptop), the Footscrays can only soar higher - a delightful prospect 😁🤪


----------



## Guidostrunk

The music us incredible bro! Got a 3rd set of the Footscray coming 😂
Once Sanjiv is cleaned out. Who knows when we'll see them again. 

I promise I'm not encouraging hoarding 🤣


----------



## Guidostrunk

It's depressing that they discontinued the MJ2. I sometimes wonder if I should snag a backup just in case lol


----------



## ksorota

Guidostrunk said:


> It's depressing that they discontinued the MJ2. I sometimes wonder if I should snag a backup just in case lol



You need a MJ1 to complete the stack. One of the best SS amps out there!


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> The music us incredible bro! Got a 3rd set of the Footscray coming 😂
> Once Sanjiv is cleaned out. Who knows when we'll see them again.
> 
> I promise I'm not encouraging hoarding 🤣


...not encouraging hoarding, just doing it...time is not money, it is tubes...🤣😂😅


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 10, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Once Sanjiv is cleaned out, who knows when we'll see _the Brimar CV4033 KB/FB _again.


I hope that that might take a while. Sanjiv seems to be an astute businessman as well as tube aficionado:  he realises that he has a live market for the Footscrays, Rochesters, Whyteleafes. He may even be surprised at the Head-Fier, and other, demand for his wares. As long as the supply of ‘flying lead’ tubes lasts or as he has access to that supply and more, Pulse will assemble and market the ‘plug and play’ tubes. This is the type of entrepreneurship that I can support!!


----------



## Wes S (Jun 11, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> The music us incredible bro! Got a 3rd set of the Footscray coming 😂
> Once Sanjiv is cleaned out. Who knows when we'll see them again.
> 
> I promise I'm not encouraging hoarding 🤣


Back ups for your back ups, is how a true tube roller does it.   I am right there with ya bro, with my Trio of singles!


----------



## Wes S

I just checked the classifieds and saw a pair of G.E.C. A2900 for sale!  Seems they did not make the cut, and the CV4033 Footscray kicked their butt.   I hope they sell fast for you Sam!


----------



## TK16

This is the website right?
http://pulseaudio.com/


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> I just checked the classifieds and saw a pair of G.E.C. A2900 for sale!  Seems they did not make the cut, and the CV4033 Footscray kicked their butt.   I hope they sell fast for you Sam!


A2900 $ —> more Footscrays...☺️


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> This is the website right?
> http://pulseaudio.com/


http://pulsetubestore.com/


----------



## TK16

jonathan c said:


> http://pulsetubestore.com/


Thanks that other link is on my phone.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> I just checked the classifieds and saw a pair of G.E.C. A2900 for sale!  Seems they did not make the cut, and the CV4033 Footscray kicked their butt.   I hope they sell fast for you Sam!


They definitely did not. Lol. There's no sense in keeping them as they'll only take up room in my case 😂


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> A2900 $ —> more Footscrays...☺️


Exactly 😁


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Exactly 😁


I'd tend to support this opinion.


----------



## jonathan c

From the production run of January 1957...


----------



## jonathan c

Not an MJ-II, but Brimar KB/FB (Footscray) all the way!!...5R4GY + CV4033...:


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Not an MJ-II, but Brimar KB/FB (Footscray) all the way!!...5R4GY + CV4033...:


How you liking it so far bro? I absolutely love the Brimar 5r4gy. And you have the Footscray 😁


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> How you liking it so far bro? I absolutely love the Brimar 5r4gy. And you have the Footscray 😁


Such a great rectifier and it goes supremely well with the CV4033...I have no desire to go the WA5, the WA33 (stock, JPS) route...heaven is in my ears and vice versa...


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Such a great rectifier and it goes supremely well with the CV4033...I have no desire to go the WA5, the WA33 (stock, JPS) route...heaven is in my ears and vice versa...


----------



## Rowethren

Now the real question is, has anyone found a source of KB/N CV4033?!?!


----------



## jonathan c

Rowethren said:


> Now the real question is, has anyone found a source of KB/N CV4033?!?!


Pre-1952...🤔...Sanjiv on the case?...


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Pre-1952...🤔...Sanjiv on the case?...


Just sent him an email asking. 🤞


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Just sent him an email asking. 🤞


Me too


----------



## Guidostrunk

He responded. You can only find the KB/N in the cv455 and cv4024. Cv4033 wasn't produced until 1956.


----------



## Guidostrunk

He has first batch January and February 1957 but won't sell me a pair of those. 😞


----------



## Rowethren

Guidostrunk said:


> He has first batch January and February 1957 but won't sell me a pair of those. 😞



Probably because I just bought them all 




Well 1 pair anyway... I couldn't resist the temptation of trying the Footscrays and thought I should go for the best ones whilst I am at it.


----------



## Rattle

I've noticed an explosion of people using Mjolnir 2 amp recently. Is it because it is not being made anymore > what happened that you guys all started listening to after all this time ? I kind of want one now ....


----------



## Rowethren

I have had one for 5 years so certainly not a new user


----------



## TK16

Well I got the Footscray 4033 ranked at number 3. Top 3 are the best of the best. Need to hear all 3 tubes again to determine the ranking. Fantastic tubes.
Anybody find another Holy Grail post it here please.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Rattle said:


> I've noticed an explosion of people using Mjolnir 2 amp recently. Is it because it is not being made anymore > what happened that you guys all started listening to after all this time ? I kind of want one now ....


I have a sickness of getting my amps modded by @ksorota. Bought one, sent it to Keith after spending 1 week with it in stock form. 
Then came the birth of an entirely new amp after the cap mod. 
Kinda took off from there. Then the tube rolling exploration leading us to Sir Footscray 😂


----------



## Guidostrunk

It's great to see this thread active again. This amp even in stock form is so underrated. So sad to see it discontinued


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Back ups for your back ups, is how a true tube roller does it.   I am right there with ya bro, with my Trio of singles!


But what about backups to backup your backup backup pair?  Slacker.


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> The music us incredible bro! Got a 3rd set of the Footscray coming 😂
> Once Sanjiv is cleaned out. Who knows when we'll see them again.
> 
> I promise I'm not encouraging hoarding 🤣


3 pairs isn't hoarding.  

*This* is hoarding.


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> 3 pairs isn't hoarding.
> 
> *This* is hoarding.


Yes that is 😂


----------



## Rattle

Guidostrunk said:


> I have a sickness of getting my amps modded by @ksorota. Bought one, sent it to Keith after spending 1 week with it in stock form.
> Then came the birth of an entirely new amp after the cap mod.
> Kinda took off from there. Then the tube rolling exploration leading us to Sir Footscray 😂



Hmm compared to Liquid Platinum would it be worth it for me though ?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Rattle said:


> Hmm compared to Liquid Platinum would it be worth it for me though ?


Funny you ask. Last year Keith and I went all out on the LP. Even did an Alps pot with faceplate modifications on 3 of them. 



The stock MJ2 has the modded LP beat hands down. The modded MJ2 is through the roof! I can't recommend the mod enough. It's bonkers!


----------



## Guidostrunk

The next level to complete the MJ2 journey is the 1957 CV4033 triple mica Footscray on adapters. 🤯


----------



## Rattle

Guidostrunk said:


> Funny you ask. Last year Keith and I went all out on the LP. Even did an Alps pot with faceplate modifications on 3 of them.
> 
> The stock MJ2 has the modded LP beat hands down. The modded MJ2 is through the roof! I can't recommend the mod enough. It's bonkers!



Yep I heard the modded LP back then and thinking of having mine modded finally. Also thinking of a MJ2 used if I can snap one up and get some tubes from one of you crazy guys lol


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 12, 2021)

[deleted]


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> I have a sickness of getting my amps modded by @ksorota. Bought one, sent it to Keith after spending 1 week with it in stock form.
> Then came the birth of an entirely new amp after the cap mod.
> Kinda took off from there. Then the tube rolling exploration leading us to Sir Footscray 😂


The most recent one for me is the ‘ksorolnir’ ! Before that, Liquid Platinum.


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> The most recent one for me is the ‘ksorolnir’ ! Before that, Liquid Platinum.


😂😂😂


----------



## jonathan c

Rattle said:


> I've noticed an explosion of people using Mjolnir 2 amp recently. Is it because it is not being made anymore > what happened that you guys all started listening to after all this time ? I kind of want one now ....


I had been and still am looking at hybrid tube/SS headphone amplifiers. I bought an MJ-II _just _before discontinuation: the website was being changed while I was ordering. My intent, fully realised, was to send it to @ksorota🥇for the cap mod - based on his stellar work on the LP. In fact, the MJ-II went from Schiit directly to @ksorota. Result: musically SOTA h/p/a without the SOTA price.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> 3 pairs isn't hoarding.
> 
> *This* is hoarding.


The Bangybang next step: 5x - 10x the market rate…


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> The next level to complete the MJ2 journey is the 1957 CV4033 triple mica Footscray on adapters. 🤯


This IS the real deal….Psst, I did one more thing: replaced the MJ-II stock fuse with a Synergistic Research Orange…😁. Between the EVO Mystique DAC, Morrow Audio balanced XLR cables, the SRO, and the Footscrays…the music, like MLK, declares “thank god almighty, I’m free at last”.


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> This IS the real deal….Psst, I did one more thing: replaced the MJ-II stock fuse with a Synergistic Research Orange…😁. Between the EVO Mystique DAC, Morrow Audio balanced XLR cables, the SRO, and the Footscrays…the music, like MLK, declares “thank god almighty, I’m free at last”.


I think Keith did my fuse as well. Lol. He mentioned it during the mod.


----------



## JoeyB

You guys are making me want to get cap mod….bad! Lol. Still waiting on my Gumby, starting to think maybe I should get mod while I’m waiting instead of after I get it. Hmmmm. These footscrays just keep getting better! Just got my backup set in 👍🏼


----------



## Rowethren

I really want to try the mod as well but can't seem to find anyone in the UK to do it


----------



## Guidostrunk

JoeyB said:


> You guys are making me want to get cap mod….bad! Lol. Still waiting on my Gumby, starting to think maybe I should get mod while I’m waiting instead of after I get it. Hmmmm. These footscrays just keep getting better! Just got my backup set in 👍🏼


Really glad you're digging the Footscrays bro. You will thank yourself later by getting the mod done. I promise lol


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wanted to update the thread regarding the January Footscrays that Sanjiv has. He's not selling them to the public. Meaning he's only selling them to us 🤯

What a great guy!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Oh man. Do I really need a 4th pair? 😂


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Oh man. Do I really need a 4th pair? 😂


How different could they be?  I am wondering if I need one of these as well?  My thoughts are that maybe a couple months of learning how to make them, could mean they got a bit better later in the year. . .


----------



## Rowethren

Wes S said:


> How different could they be?  I am wondering if I need one of these as well?  My thoughts are that maybe a couple months of learning how to make them, could mean they got a bit better later in the year. . .


Don't say that, I just bought a pair of the January ones!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> How different could they be?  I am wondering if I need one of these as well?  My thoughts are that maybe a couple months of learning how to make them, could mean they got a bit better later in the year. . .


I'm wondering the same. @jonathan c  has some so maybe he'll do a comparison and let us know lol.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Rowethren said:


> Don't say that, I just bought a pair of the January ones!


Honestly I'd imagine that there's no difference bro. You'll be fine lol


----------



## Wes S (Jun 12, 2021)

Rowethren said:


> Don't say that, I just bought a pair of the January ones!


LOL! I am just trying to convince myself that I don't need another pair.    Like Sam said, I think they will sound they same (at least I hope so ).


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> How different could they be?  I am wondering if I need one of these as well?  My thoughts are that maybe a couple months of learning how to make them, could mean they got a bit better later in the year. . .


What's the difference? The Jan 57 date code?


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> What's the difference? The Jan 57 date code?


Yep , still a 57 lol


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm wondering the same. @jonathan c  has some so maybe he'll do a comparison and let us know lol.


Will do…away from home, though…


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Oh man. Do I really need a 4th pair? 😂


Simple:  is the regret of not buying > the regret of buying?…


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Simple:  is the regret of not buying > the regret of buying?…


Valid point. Guess I'll get some January's 😂


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 12, 2021)

#


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> How different could they be?  I am wondering if I need one of these as well?  My thoughts are that maybe a couple months of learning how to make them, could mean they got a bit better later in the year. . .


I am thinking that there should be little difference other than normal production run ‘variance’ between the Jan 1957 and the other 1957 Footscrays. My thoughts are: post WWII, tubes were essential in electronics; Brimar and Mullard were at the forefront of tube design and production in the UK (members of British Valve Association); given the miniaturisation that noval tubes were versus octal tubes, pre-production runs were necessary to minimise pitfalls and to optimise yields; once design and pre-production were deemed satisfactory, it was as “full steam ahead” as could be with the mix of man & machinery of the time.


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> I am thinking that there should be little difference other than normal production run ‘variance’ between the Jan 1957 and the other 1957 Footscrays. My thoughts are: post WWII, tubes were essential in electronics; Brimar and Mullard were at the forefront of tube design and production in the UK (members of British Valve Association); given the miniaturisation that noval tubes were versus octal tubes, pre-production runs were necessary to minimise pitfalls and to optimise yields; once design and pre-production were deemed satisfactory, it was as “full steam ahead” as could be with the mix of man & machinery of the time.


As always, well said brother!


----------



## JoeyB

I got second set of Footscrays. Has anyone else had them come in different boxes? First set was in newer boxes and no stickers on tubes, second set looks like original boxes and stickers on tubes. Tubes look identical otherwise except first pair NG so July and second set NK so November. Just curious if anyone else has had different packaging?


----------



## Rowethren

JoeyB said:


> I got second set of Footscrays. Has anyone else had them come in different boxes? First set was in newer boxes and no stickers on tubes, second set looks like original boxes and stickers on tubes. Tubes look identical otherwise except first pair NG so July and second set NK so November. Just curious if anyone else has had different packaging?


When I spoke to Sanjiv yesterday he said some of the Footscrays come in plain boxes because the originals were too degraded to use.


----------



## Guidostrunk

JoeyB said:


> I got second set of Footscrays. Has anyone else had them come in different boxes? First set was in newer boxes and no stickers on tubes, second set looks like original boxes and stickers on tubes. Tubes look identical otherwise except first pair NG so July and second set NK so November. Just curious if anyone else has had different packaging?


Same OG packing here so far.


----------



## JoeyB

I figured as much but I just wanted to check


----------



## JoeyB

Guidostrunk said:


> Same OG packing here so far.


You get special treatment lol. If it wasn’t for you none of us would be buying these tubes. Sanjiv owes you that at a minimum


----------



## jonathan c

JoeyB said:


> I got second set of Footscrays. Has anyone else had them come in different boxes? First set was in newer boxes and no stickers on tubes, second set looks like original boxes and stickers on tubes. Tubes look identical otherwise except first pair NG so July and second set NK so November. Just curious if anyone else has had different packaging?


Some NG, some NK, but the tubes are* OK!*


----------



## JoeyB

jonathan c said:


> Some NG, some NK, but the tubes are* OK!*


These tubes are Amazing! Only listened to first set so far but Wow. I just have my Dap into MJOLNIR can’t wait to hear w Gumby. Even though my monitors the sound is on another level!


----------



## Guidostrunk

JoeyB said:


> You get special treatment lol. If it wasn’t for you none of us would be buying these tubes. Sanjiv owes you that at a minimum


I was so happy that I was able to get them and share the wealth bro! I still can't believe we are able to buy these like we are. 😂


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> I was so happy that I was able to get them and share the wealth bro! I still can't believe we are able to buy these like we are. 😂


Someone let the cat out of the bag about the Footscray in the Lyr tube rolling thread.


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> I was so happy that I was able to get them and share the wealth bro! I still can't believe we are able to buy these like we are. 😂


Between you and everyone else here, I'm now poor(er).  9 left in stock now.   And worse, I was at almost a full month in successful remission of tube hoarding buying. 

The worse-er part is I don't even have anything that uses a 12AT7.  Hopefully it's not too much gain for my 6SN7 applications....

Enablers.


----------



## ksorota

TK16 said:


> Someone let the cat out of the bag about the Footscray in the Lyr tube rolling thread.



Wonder who would have done that🥸


----------



## TK16

ksorota said:


> Wonder who would have done that🥸


No idea who, but I'd cut the guy a break. 🤥


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> No idea who, but I'd cut the guy a break. 🤥


Hahahahahaha!


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> Someone let the cat out of the bag about the Footscray in the Lyr tube rolling thread.


Hmm…who among us owns a Lyr…_not me…🙅‍♂️_


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Hmm…who among us owns a Lyr…_not me…🙅‍♂️_


That's where it all started lol. That thread is the absolute definition of rabbit hole.


----------



## TK16

jonathan c said:


> Hmm…who among us owns a Lyr…_not me…🙅‍♂️_


I have a Lyr 2 but I don't use it. Run balanced.


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> No idea who, but I'd cut the guy a break. 🤥


A nine-pin-occhio?…


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> I have a Lyr 2 but I don't use it. Run balanced.


( Bill Clinton: I tried marijuana but I did not inhale )


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Hmm…who among us owns a Lyr…_not me…🙅‍♂️_


I won't mention any names so I don't get @TK16 in trouble, but I have no idea.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> I won't mention any names so I don't get @TK16 in trouble, but I have no idea.


Ly-r, Ly-r, tubes on fire…😝…


----------



## TK16

Cheap Hamburg ecc82 1956 single.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC82-VALV...e-d62c-4a54-a601-ff588046d909&redirect=mobile


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 13, 2021)

(#)


----------



## jonathan c

JoeyB said:


> These tubes are Amazing! Only listened to first set so far but Wow. I just have my Dap into MJOLNIR can’t wait to hear w Gumby. Even though my monitors the sound is on another level!


With Gumby, the SQ _will_ be exponentially better than through the digital audio player. Footscray will soar higher and, unlike Icarus, will not have wings melt then perish as the sun is approached.


----------



## TK16

2nd pair of the Footscray CV4033 is warming up. This pair is tightly matched and strong.


----------



## Rowethren

TK16 said:


> 2nd pair of the Footscray CV4033 is warming up. This pair is tightly matched and strong.


My first pair isn't scheduled to arrive until next Monday!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Rowethren said:


> My first pair isn't scheduled to arrive until next Monday!


It'll be worth the wait bro. I promise lol


----------



## jonathan c

Rowethren said:


> My first pair isn't scheduled to arrive until next Monday!


Your current tube in use is saying (in biblical terms) about the Footscray: “there is a tube coming that is greater than I and I am not worthy to warm up the tube sockets for it” [from the Book of Brimar].


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Your current tube in use is saying (in biblical terms) about the Footscray: “there is a tube coming that is greater than I and I am not worthy to warm up the tube sockets for it” [from the Book of Brimar].


😂😂😂


----------



## TK16

Rowethren said:


> My first pair isn't scheduled to arrive until next Monday!


Worth the wait bro.


----------



## Wes S

Rowethren said:


> My first pair isn't scheduled to arrive until next Monday!


All 3 of mine arrived a few days early, so hopefully you don't have to wait that long.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> All 3 of mine arrived a few days early, so hopefully you don't have to wait that long.


My pair was scheduled for Wednesday and got them today 2 days early.


----------



## JoeyB

1956 cv455 triple mica Footscrays in da house to add to the sets of 57’s. I think I’m officially in the Footscray rabbit hole, and I’m enjoying every second


----------



## Guidostrunk

JoeyB said:


> 1956 cv455 triple mica Footscrays in da house to add to the sets of 57’s. I think I’m officially in the Footscray rabbit hole, and I’m enjoying every second


You definitely are bro😂

You'll appreciate all those sets when the well runs dry.


----------



## JoeyB

> Guidostrunk said:
> 
> 
> > It'll be worth the wait bro. I promise lol
> ...


----------



## JoeyB

Guidostrunk said:


> You definitely are bro😂
> 
> You'll appreciate all those sets when the well runs dry.


I certainly will Bro. At this point I don’t want to listen without Footscrays in my amp. Unless another holy grail pops up. Lol


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 14, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> You definitely are bro😂
> 
> You'll appreciate all those sets when the well runs dry.


Assume each Footscray tube life is 6500* hours (after 100 hour cumulative burn-in). With 5 hours per day, including warm-up, for _every_ day that would be 1300 days or 3.6 years. A day off (!!) here and there stretches this out. Swapping between CV4033 and CV455 definitely stretches this out 😁.

*Probably conservative…the tubes are in headphone amplifiers not in power amplifiers for loudspeakers; and in the MJ-II, the tubes are pre-amplification; the SS output buffer does the heavy lifting. (Tubes = brains, SS = brawn).


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Assume each Footscray tube life is 6500* hours (after 100 hour cumulative burn-in). With 5 hours per day, including warm-up, for _every_ day that would be 1300 days or 3.6 years. A day off (!!) here and there stretches this out. Swapping between CV4033 and CV455 definitely stretches this out 😁.
> 
> *Probably conservative…the tubes are in headphone amplifiers not in power amplifiers for loudspeakers; and in the MJ-II, the tubes are pre-amplification; the SS output buffer does the heavy lifting. (Tubes = brains, SS = brawn).


You mean I have to take a day off of jammin? 😞


----------



## jonathan c

The good fellows (tuberos & tuberas) of this thread should have the appropriate garb. T shirts with:


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> The good fellows (tuberos & tuberas) of this thread should have the appropriate garb. T shirts with:


🤯 Can I actually buy one?


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> The good fellows (tuberos & tuberas) of this thread should have the appropriate garb. T shirts with:


Love it!


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> You mean I have to take a day off of jammin? 😞


That why you swap 455 and 4033…


----------



## jonathan c

I think that I can get these made up. I will put in for one size: large. Will toy around with print colour / background colour…and be back. Again, for your viewing pleasure (ideally while listening):


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> I think that I can get these made up. I will put in for one size: large. Will toy around with print colour / background colour…and be back. Again, for your viewing pleasure (ideally while listening):


Oh boy. Can you put a 2xl in front of mine 😂


----------



## jonathan c

Here we go, ye Footscrayers. This is what they will be…(physique not included?)…


----------



## Guidostrunk

That's is fkn awesome bro! I'll take 3 shirts(2xl) 😂

Let me know where to send the money


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> That's is fkn awesome bro! I'll take 3 shirts(2xl) 😂
> 
> Let me know where to send the money


In process! I will p/m when they are in. When you wear your Footscray t-shirt, you will be dressed “to the nine-pins”


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> In process! I will p/m when they are in. When you wear your Footscray t-shirt, you will be dressed “to the nine-pins”


😂


----------



## JoeyB

jonathan c said:


> Here we go, ye Footscrayers. This is what they will be…(physique not included?)…


I’m in for 2 large. PM me the details


----------



## Rowethren

Well that was early!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Rowethren said:


> Well that was early!


Wow. So the January tubes actually have D getters. 😳


----------



## Guidostrunk

🤦‍♂️I wasn't gonna get a pair of those January tubes but I'm a sucker for D getters 😂
I hope he has a pair for me. Just emailed him 🤞


----------



## Rowethren

Guidostrunk said:


> 🤦‍♂️I wasn't gonna get a pair of those January tubes but I'm a sucker for D getters 😂
> I hope he has a pair for me. Just emailed him 🤞



Interesting that the construction is different even though they are from the same year. What getters do the later ones have?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Rowethren said:


> Interesting that the construction is different even though they are from the same year. What getters do the later ones have?


O getters. The ones you have are probably a carry over from 56 construction.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Done deal. He only has a few January's left folks. Lol.


----------



## ksorota

Guidostrunk said:


> Done deal. He only has a few January's left folks. Lol.



So much for not needing more tubes! Now you need more amps to put them into.


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> So much for not needing more tubes! Now you need more amps to put them into.


😂😂😂


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Wow. So the January tubes actually have D getters. 😳


Wow is right!  I just messaged Sanjiv, and hope he has some for me too.


----------



## G0rt

Dammit. Triple mica Footscrays incoming. Dammit. Schiit.


----------



## TK16

Is their any difference between the 1957 O getter and the D getter besides the getter type?


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Is their any difference between the 1957 O getter and the D getter besides the getter type?


The million dollar question!


----------



## Wes S (Jun 15, 2021)

Hell yes!  I have 2 January Footscray's on the way.      Sanjiv said he has 2 more left and is hoping to find even more but that's it for now.  I can't wait to get these as I always prefer a square getter version vs. O.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> The million dollar question!


Hey, you said that about 1957 Footscray vs 1958 Whyteleafes!


----------



## Wes S (Jun 15, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Hey, you said that about 1957 Footscray vs 1958 Whyteleafes!


LOL! This question is worthy of another million, and I will get to answer it soon.


----------



## Guidostrunk

G0rt said:


> Dammit. Triple mica Footscrays incoming. Dammit. Schiit.


Looking forward to hearing your thoughts bro.


----------



## G0rt

Guidostrunk said:


> Looking forward to hearing your thoughts bro.


I think I have no self control.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Oh wow. Sanjiv emailed me about these ecc82/6067 Footscray 😳
https://pulsetubestore.com/products...cc82-cv4003-12au7-13d5-plug-play-ready-to-use


----------



## Guidostrunk

It is unbelievable that these tubes even exist


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Oh wow. Sanjiv emailed me about these ecc82/6067 Footscray 😳
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products...cc82-cv4003-12au7-13d5-plug-play-ready-to-use


Ouch that's for each tube? I'll pass on those.


----------



## Guidostrunk




----------



## Wes S

@jonathan c  curious if your January Footscray's CV4033 have the square getter?


----------



## jonathan c

G0rt said:


> I think know that I have no self control.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> It is unbelievable that these tubes even exist


Is Sanjiv walking the old premises of industrial England while holding a tube divining rod?…


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> @jonathan c  curious if your January Footscray's CV4033 have the square getter?


Yes, they do.


----------



## Rowethren

jonathan c said:


> Is Sanjiv walking the old premises of industrial England while holding a tube divining rod?…


I am not sure that would be possible, they are all covered in "luxury" apartments now... 

I haven't tested my January Footscray yet, I hope they work now you have polished off the last of the stock. 

As pretty as those 6067s look that is way outside of my price range, the Footscrays were already pushing it!


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 15, 2021)

Rowethren said:


> I am not sure that would be possible, they are all covered in "luxury" apartments now...
> 
> I haven't tested my January Footscray yet, I hope they work now you have polished off the last of the stock.
> 
> As pretty as those 6067s look that is way outside of my price range, the Footscrays were already pushing it!


Plus the 6067s are 12AU7s…it might be that the higher gain 12AT7s are a better match to the MJ-II……..Would (could) a 12AU7 type tube even feature triple mica?


----------



## Rowethren

jonathan c said:


> Plus the 6067s are 12AU7s…it might be that the higher gain 12AT7s are a better match to the MJ-II……..Would (could) a 12AU7 type tube even feature triple mica?


No idea on both those questions, I just follow people around and buy tubes everyone says are good .


----------



## ksorota

Guidostrunk said:


>


I really want to get a set of these!!!

Where can I find 400 extra dollars, anyone?


----------



## Wes S

ksorota said:


> I really want to get a set of these!!!
> 
> Where can I find 400 extra dollars, anyone?


My thoughts exactly!


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> I really want to get a set of these!!!
> 
> Where can I find 400 extra dollars, anyone?


Do you have a queue of amps that you can mod in a jiffy?…


----------



## ksorota

jonathan c said:


> Do you have a queue of amps that you can mod in a jiffy?…



If only😔

Have some footscrays i could sell!


----------



## Rowethren

ksorota said:


> If only😔
> 
> Have some footscrays i could sell!



Blasphemy! Thou shalt not desecrate the holy Footscray!


----------



## Wes S

ksorota said:


> If only😔
> 
> Have some footscrays i could sell!


Don't do it man!    

I made that mistake a while back when I sold my 7730's.  Luckily, I was able to buy them back, and they are currently my number 1 tube when paired with my RH-5 and Atticus.


----------



## jonathan c

This is so obvious…at opposite ends of the tube spectrum…What two letters do not appear in ‘Footscray’?………G and E !!!


----------



## TK16

Rowethren said:


> No idea on both those questions, I just follow people around and buy tubes everyone says are good .


Been using ECC82 in the MJ2 for a few years, 7 of my top 20 all time are ECC82 variants. Here is my top 20. 

1. 7316 Heerlen D-getter long plate 1958
2. Hamburg ECC82 long plate square getter 1956
3. Brimar Footscray CV4033 1957
4. Hamburg Pinched Waist 6201 1959
5. GEC A2900 2x mica 1971
6. Heerlen ECC82 45 degree D-getter long plate 1955
7. Mullard Mitcham 6201 1964
8. Copenhagen ECC81 45 degree D-getter 1951
9. Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 3x mica
10. HiVac ECC82 square getter
11. Foton 6N3P 1958 3x mica
12. 6922 1958 Heerlen D-getter
13. CCa Heerlen Pinched Waist 1956
14. Mullard Blackburn ECC82 square getter 1957
15. Valvo Hamburg PCC88 Pinched Waist 1957
16. Western Electric 396A 1946/1947
17. CBS 5814a square getter 1958
18. ECC88 Heerlen D-getter 1958
19. Reflektor 6N3P 1958 3x mica
20. Brimar ECC82 square getter 1955


----------



## ksorota

Rowethren said:


> Blasphemy! Thou shalt not desecrate the holy Footscray!


Just kidding.  Those are not on the block...But I am sure i can find something to sell.  

I have some Nest Alert sensors I could sell at a premium!  I have a Nest 2021 Thermostat I dont want.  Anyone want a Google Nest mini?


----------



## Wes S (Jun 15, 2021)

TK16 said:


> Been using ECC82 in the MJ2 for a few years, 7 of my top 20 all time are ECC82 variants. Here is my top 20.
> 
> 1. 7316 Heerlen D-getter long plate 1958
> 2. Hamburg ECC82 long plate square getter 1956
> ...


Hell of a list bro!  The only tubes missing that I think you would love, are the 7728 (1 hole plate), and 7730 (long plate angled square getter) .


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Hell of a list bro!  The only tubes missing that I think you would love, are the 7728 (1 hole plate), and 7730 (long plate angled square getter) .


Hell of a lot of buying and selling to get to that list. 😀 Worth it though.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Oh boy!.... .5 zip of some Black Widow , an indulgence of Bombay sapphire, 
and we're in the Footscray stranglehold 😂😂😂


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Oh boy!.... .5 zip of some Black Widow , an indulgence of Bombay sapphire,
> and we're in the Footscray stranglehold 😂😂😂


A half O of some Black Widow!  Heck yeah, I have never had that strain and will have to look that one up.  I have had plenty of White Widow, but never Black.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Oh boy!.... .5 zip of some Black Widow , an indulgence of Bombay sapphire,
> and we're in the Footscray stranglehold 😂😂😂


If you like Bombay Sapphire, you will love Hendrick’s…


----------



## jonathan c

mountain retreat listening centre (fueled by Reflektor 6N23P-EV…they are _really good;_ the Footscrays are at home…where the Woos roam…):


----------



## ksorota (Jun 15, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> If you like Bombay Sapphire, you will love Hendrick’s…



I also recommend this 

Rose rock gin and Etsu gin, Scottish and Japanese, respectively. 

I love gin!  Always have Hendricks and Beefeater at home too.


----------



## Mike-WI

jonathan c said:


> If you like Bombay Sapphire, you will love Hendrick’s…


My favorite gin is The Botanist


----------



## ksorota

Mike-WI said:


> My favorite gin is The Botanist



Added to the list. Eyeing that aged gin! A local distillery makes an aged gin that is really good.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Oh boy!.... .5 zip of some Black Widow , an indulgence of Bombay sapphire,
> and we're in the Footscray stranglehold 😂😂😂


I enjoy from time to time a different Black Widow (from the 1970s):


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> If you like Bombay Sapphire, you will love Hendrick’s…


I will most certainly give it a shot (pun intended 😂) 

I see it every time I grab the Bombay.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wow! That's for the gin tips folks. All added to my list.


----------



## jonathan c

If it weren’t a manufacturing plant for Brimar, wouldn’t the name Footscray sound good for an old English gin distillery? 😜🤪


----------



## Guidostrunk

Footscray Gin. Has a ring to it 😂


----------



## Rowethren

https://grassrootsdistilling.co/products/footscray-hockey-club-mcivor-reserve-gin

Just ignore the country of origin


----------



## Guidostrunk

Rowethren said:


> https://grassrootsdistilling.co/products/footscray-hockey-club-mcivor-reserve-gin
> 
> Just ignore the country of origin


Now that is awesome!


----------



## Wes S

Just got confirmation of the square getters on my January Footscray's from Sanjiv and a shipping confirmation as well.  Hell yeah!  I can't believe I am gonna own some square getter Footscray CV4033 Triple Micas!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Mine are on their way too bro. I'm so pumped to get them lol. 
An old friend from back in the old rolling days has joined the club as well. He bought the last pair of square getters. 
I'm sure he'll chime in at some point 😁


----------



## Wes S (Jun 16, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Mine are on their way too bro. I'm so pumped to get them lol.
> An old friend from back in the old rolling days has joined the club as well. He bought the last pair of square getters.
> I'm sure he'll chime in at some point 😁


Heck yeah bro!  That's awesome an old friend picked up that last set too!  These are very special tubes.

On another note, I just rolled in the Hamburg 6201 Pinched Waist Triple Mica D Getter, and man this tube is every bit as good as the Footscray.    This tube takes transparency to the next level, and has a crazy huge holographic stage with more height and width than the depth/frontal projection of the Footscray.  The Hamburg 6201 also has more precise treble and transparency, but the Footscray has the killer PRAT and vocals.  Good thing is the Footscray's are just as good but different, and are much more affordable and available.  I was actually giving the 6201 a try to see if I would want to sell the 2 I have, but these tubes are not going anywhere and will be a good change up from the Footscray's every now and then.  I love me some NOS "Holy Grail" tubes!


----------



## Rowethren (Jun 16, 2021)

You lot are incorrigible!

I left my Footscrays burning in overnight and yesterday so am probably up to about 15 hours. 

They will probably get even better but the sound stage is stunning. Listening to some classic Nina Simone and the piano sounds like it is in the room with me...


----------



## Wes S (Jun 16, 2021)

@TK16  I can totally see why the Hamburg 6201 Pinched Waist is in your top 5, and the D Getter version is definitely in my top 3.

My top 5 tubes

1.  Footscray CV4033 Triple Mica 57'

2.  Hamburg 6201 Pinched Waist Triple Mica D Getter 57'

3.  7728 1 Hole Plate  &  7730 Long Plate Angled Square Getter (These two are tied)

4.  Lorenz ECC81 Foil D Getter 55'

5.  Hamburg ECC82 Long Plate Foil D Getter 54'

I am in heaven with these amazing NOS tubes!


----------



## Wes S (Jun 16, 2021)

Wes S said:


> @TK16  I can totally see why the Hamburg 6201 Pinched Waist is in your top 5, and the D Getter version is definitely in my top 3.
> 
> My top 5 tubes
> 
> ...


Honorable mention goes to the 7316 Long Plate Foil D Getter, and it sits just below the Hamburg ECC82 Long Plate Foil D Getter in my rankings.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Heck yeah bro!  That's awesome an old friend picked up that last set too!  These are very special tubes.
> 
> On another note, I just rolled in the Hamburg 6201 Pinched Waist Triple Mica D Getter, and man this tube is every bit as good as the Footscray.    This tube takes transparency to the next level, and has a crazy huge holographic stage with more height and width than the depth/frontal projection of the Footscray.  The Hamburg 6201 also has more precise treble and transparency, but the Footscray has the killer PRAT and vocals.  Good thing is the Footscray's are just as good but different, and are much more affordable and available.  I was actually giving the 6201 a try to see if I would want to sell the 2 I have, but these tubes are not going anywhere and will be a good change up from the Footscray's every now and then.  I love me some NOS "Holy Grail" tubes!


Yes sir. The Valvo 6201 is no joke. There's a reason why it's one of the most mentioned tubes in the 12at7 family on every audio forum. I had them( dual post getter 2 mica) twice and tried to love them. For whatever reason the soundstage just wouldn't jive with me. It was massive no doubt but placement of it was different than any other tube. Things just seemed off to me. 
It is a fantastic tube.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 16, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Yes sir. The Valvo 6201 is no joke. There's a reason why it's one of the most mentioned tubes in the 12at7 family on every audio forum. I had them( dual post getter 2 mica) twice and tried to love them. For whatever reason the soundstage just wouldn't jive with me. It was massive no doubt but placement of it was different than any other tube. Things just seemed off to me.
> It is a fantastic tube.


Perhaps the Triple Mica D Getter is where it's at, as there is nothing off with this tube whatsoever.   The balance top to bottom is incredible, and imaging is very precise.  Everything in the stage definitely comes at me differently (not better or worse) than with the Footscray though, and I really like the change up for certain genres like jazz and well recorded acoustic stuff.  I really like the speed with the 6201, and the transients have really great attack.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Perhaps the Triple Mica D Getter is where it's at, as there is nothing off with this tube whatsoever.   The balance top to bottom is incredible, and imaging is very precise.  Everything in the stage definitely comes at me differently (not better or worse) than with the Footscray though, and I really like the change up for certain genres like jazz and well recorded acoustic stuff.  I really like the speed with the 6201, and the transients have really great attack.


That's the thing. The triples were impossible to get without selling a kidney on the black market 😂
The dual post getter was amazing. 
What I mean by off is if I listened to 5 different tubes and a particular guitar was center right and out towards front. The Valvo when put in would put that same guitar almost center right and behind me. It would hurt my brain 😂 
For whatever reason I was always looking up to channel the vocals and horns. It was really weird. The soundstage is massive though. I'd say the Footscray has less height and a better balanced of 360 from front to back and side to side. Footscray more fun sounding and 6201 is more critical evaluation lol


----------



## Wes S (Jun 16, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> That's the thing. The triples were impossible to get without selling a kidney on the black market 😂
> The dual post getter was amazing.
> What I mean by off is if I listened to 5 different tubes and a particular guitar was center right and out towards front. The Valvo when put in would put that same guitar almost center right and behind me. It would hurt my brain 😂
> For whatever reason I was always looking up to channel the vocals and horns. It was really weird. The soundstage is massive though. I'd say the Footscray has less height and a better balanced of 360 from front to back and side to side. Footscray more fun sounding and 6201 is more critical evaluation lol


I agree, and when paired up with different tubes and headphones, they both have a place in my collection ranked number 1 and 2.  Also, I hear ya on the crazy high prices of the triple micas and especially the d getter versions, but I have a feeling they are a few notches above the 2 mica, just like the Brimar triple mica CV4033 are better than the 2 mica.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> I agree, and when paired up with different tubes and headphones, they both have a place in my collection ranked number 1 and 2.  Also, I hear ya on the crazy high prices of the triple micas and especially the d getter versions, but I have a feeling they are a few notches above the 2 mica just like the Brimar triple mica CV4033, are better than the 2 mica.


The triples are definitely what everyone was after. The triple construction is where it's at with any tube 😂


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> The triples are definitely what everyone was after. The triple construction is where it's at with any tube 😂


Yes sir!  The funny thing is, I was really hoping to not like the 6201 triple mica's, so I could sell them and buy some more Footscray's.  However, they blew me away and aren't going anywhere.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Yes sir!  The funny thing is, I was really hoping to not like the 6201 triple mica's, so I could sell them and buy some more Footscray's.  However, they blew me away and aren't going anywhere.


I would never part with those. They're almost extinct lol. One thing I knew after hearing the Footscray the first time was they were an elite tube and up there with the best. Just another flavor of greatness and a sound I've never heard like it before.


----------



## ksorota

@Wes S  you get your street tubes yet?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Yes sir!  The funny thing is, I was really hoping to not like the 6201 triple mica's, so I could sell them and buy some more Footscray's.  However, they blew me away and aren't going anywhere.


I'll be looking forward to your final thoughts bro after you swap back and forth a few times.


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> @Wes S  you get your street tubes yet?


I was waiting for one of you to get these and post some thoughts.


----------



## ksorota

Guidostrunk said:


> I was waiting for one of you to get these and post some thoughts.



They spent the night on the mailbox in the rain. But they were packaged well for their trip.  I will get them plugged in today!


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> They spent the night on the mailbox in the rain. But they were packaged well for their trip.  I will get them plugged in today!


Can't wait to hear your thoughts bro!


----------



## Wes S

ksorota said:


> @Wes S  you get your street tubes yet?


Man!  Not yet, and my tracking doesn't even show them in the US yet?


----------



## ksorota

Wes S said:


> Man!  Not yet, and my tracking doesn't even show them in the US yet?


I never received any tracking info...kind of forgot about them honestly.  I assume you should get yours today or tomorrow since we purchased around the same time.


----------



## Wes S

ksorota said:


> I never received any tracking info...kind of forgot about them honestly.  I assume you should get yours today or tomorrow since we purchased around the same time.


I hope so, but knowing the USPS, I am not holding my breath.


----------



## Rowethren

ksorota said:


> @Wes S  you get your street tubes yet?



Damn the silk screen on them looks perfect, almost like the day they were made!


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Heck yeah bro!  That's awesome an old friend picked up that last set too!  These are very special tubes.
> 
> On another note, I just rolled in the Hamburg 6201 Pinched Waist Triple Mica D Getter, and man this tube is every bit as good as the Footscray.    This tube takes transparency to the next level, and has a crazy huge holographic stage with more height and width than the depth/frontal projection of the Footscray.  The Hamburg 6201 also has more precise treble and transparency, but the Footscray has the killer PRAT and vocals.  Good thing is the Footscray's are just as good but different, and are much more affordable and available.  I was actually giving the 6201 a try to see if I would want to sell the 2 I have, but these tubes are not going anywhere and will be a good change up from the Footscray's every now and then.  I love me some NOS "Holy Grail" tubes!


NOS = never on sale 😜


----------



## jonathan c

Rowethren said:


> You lot are incorrigible!
> 
> I left my Footscrays burning in overnight and yesterday so am probably up to about 15 hours.
> 
> They will probably get even better but the sound stage is stunning. Listening to some classic Nina Simone and the piano sounds like it is in the room with me...


We are not incorrigible…we are Footscrazy !!


----------



## TK16

Got a NOS testing 59 7316  D-getter from this seller can recommend him as well. 57 Footscray in the MJ2 and 7316 D-getter in the LP.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/VALVO-ECC1...0-f193-4336-b087-cb5b354d0a85&redirect=mobile


----------



## Wes S

Jonathan and Sam have been busy!     I have never made this list, but I imagine I have come close.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Jonathan and Sam have been busy!     I have never made this list, but I imagine I have come close.


😂😂😂


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 16, 2021)

Wes S said:


> Jonathan and Sam have been busy!     I have never made this list, but I imagine I have come close.


Just trying to spread the Footscrayziness…(in any event, the responses mean more to me than the sheer number of posts…)


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> Oh wow. Sanjiv emailed me about these ecc82/6067 Footscray 😳
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products...cc82-cv4003-12au7-13d5-plug-play-ready-to-use


Ooosh.  $203 a pop.  I think I'll make myself happy with the CV4003's....when they get here.


----------



## bcowen

ksorota said:


> I really want to get a set of these!!!
> 
> Where can I find 400 extra dollars, anyone?


I'm gonna put my wife out on the street corner.

Wait...that'll _cost_ me $400.  Nevermind.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> mountain retreat listening centre (fueled by Reflektor 6N23P-EV…they are _really good;_ the Footscrays are at home…where the Woos roam…):


If those are the silver shield, single wire getter post (SWGP), they are really sweet.  I got a couple pairs by accident before they were "discovered" and the price went to the moon.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> If those are the silver shield, single wire getter post (SWGP), they are really sweet.  I got a couple pairs by accident before they were "discovered" and the price went to the moon.


They are indeed 😊


----------



## billerb1 (Jun 16, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm anxiously waiting to hear your thoughts and @ksorota follow up. I couldn't take myself away from my rig last night. It's so hard to explain the Footscray’s presentation. It's like the music is rising up from within or something 😂
> The imaging is just crazy. The soundstage is huge but in a different intimate way. I know it sounds crazy and backwards lol.
> 
> Vocals are paralyzing and ooze emotion. You not only feel their pain but it's almost as if you're going through it with them. It's nuts!
> ...


Sammy,  I want whatever the frig you're on. ( I will be soon...they're on their way from India.)  Thanks bro.  It'll be interesting to see how the '57 square getter Footscrays do with my WA2/yggy2/HD800S set-up.  I've been riding my Telefunken ECC801S/GEC 6AS7G/GEC U709 combo in the WA2 for about 3 years now.  Really thought I was done.  Guess maybe I was wrong.  Can't wait to find out.


----------



## Guidostrunk

billerb1 said:


> Sammy,  I want whatever the frig you're on. ( I will be soon...they're on their way from India.)  Thanks bro.  It'll be interesting to see how the '57 square getter Footscrays do with my WA2/yggy2/HD800S set-up.  I've been riding my Telefunken ECC801S/GEC 6AS7G/GEC U709 combo in the WA2 for about 3 years now.  Really thought I was done.  Guess maybe I was wrong.  Can't wait to find out.


Welcome back my old friend 😂 
I was wondering when you'd post. You got the last square getters. I'm happy you got them before they were gone.


----------



## Guidostrunk

billerb1 said:


> Sammy,  I want whatever the frig you're on. ( I will be soon...they're on their way from India.)  Thanks bro.  It'll be interesting to see how the '57 square getter Footscrays do with my WA2/yggy2/HD800S set-up.  I've been riding my Telefunken ECC801S/GEC 6AS7G/GEC U709 combo in the WA2 for about 3 years now.  Really thought I was done.  Guess maybe I was wrong.  Can't wait to find out.


Black widow and Gin is what I'm on atm 🤪


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> Black widow and Gin is what I'm on atm 🤪


I know it's a moving target Sammy.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hahahahahahaha!


----------



## ksorota

Guidostrunk said:


> Black widow and Gin is what I'm on atm 🤪



Picked up some Hendricks Orbium today that i have yet to try. Was looking for coffee still gin, but this one should be interesting…seems a mix of gin and absinthe by description.


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 17, 2021)

ksorota said:


> Picked up some Hendricks Orbium today that i have yet to try. Was looking for coffee still gin, but this one should be interesting…seems a mix of gin and absinthe by description.


Gin & absinthe!…..like Hans n’ Franz (from SNL): “we’re here…to f##k [_clap_] you up!…” 😜🤪


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> Picked up some Hendricks Orbium today that i have yet to try. Was looking for coffee still gin, but this one should be interesting…seems a mix of gin and absinthe by description.


Oh boy. Absinthe 😬 I'm afraid of that stuff. Last thing I remembered was it being poured over sugar cubes in a cup and woke up on my cousins dinning room table the next morning 🤣


----------



## Guidostrunk

So many years ago lol


----------



## Guidostrunk

Me right now jammin 😂


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Sammy,  I want whatever the frig you're on. ( I will be soon...they're on their way from India.)  Thanks bro.  It'll be interesting to see how the '57 square getter Footscrays do with my WA2/yggy2/HD800S set-up.  I've been riding my Telefunken ECC801S/GEC 6AS7G/GEC U709 combo in the WA2 for about 3 years now.  Really thought I was done.  Guess maybe I was wrong.  Can't wait to find out.


Hey bro, how are you? You'll love those tubes I think. They are Brimar but don't expect a sound sig like the CV2492's or other Brimar. These are the real deal.


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 16, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Me right now jammin 😂


That’s not solid-state!  It’s altered state!…The sixth hurricane of the season should be named Footscray!!


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Me right now jammin 😂


That's what happens when you accidentally have the amp on full volume listening to GE tubes.


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> That's what happens when you accidentally have the amp on full volume listening to GE tubes.


You don’t listen to GE tubes; you endure GE tubes (except for the GE 5998A…which is actually very good)


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> That's what happens when you accidentally have the amp on full volume listening to GE tubes.


🤣🤣🤣


----------



## billerb1 (Jun 17, 2021)

TK16 said:


> Hey bro, how are you? You'll love those tubes I think. They are Brimar but don't expect a sound sig like the CV2492's or other Brimar. These are the real deal.


Retirement income doesn't allow for much of this lunacy anymore TK...but I was just drivin' by and Sammy pulled me into one of those holograms or vortexes or whatever those damn things are he plays around in.  You know, Sammy schiit.  There was absolutely nothing I could do.  Feels like destiny to me.


----------



## Wes S

billerb1 said:


> Retirement income doesn't allow for much of this lunacy anymore TK...but I was just drivin' by and Sammy pulled me into one of those holograms or vortexes or whatever those damn things are he plays around in.  You know, Sammy schiit.  There was absolutely nothing I could do.  Feels like destiny to me.


Hey there.  I just want to say, I have learned a ton from reading all your past post and especially in the WA2 thread.  I learned about the U709 there, and I am currently running a G.E.C. U709 in my Pendant.  The U709 took things to another level, and is my number 1 rectifier.  

You really jumped back in at great time, and I also picked up a pair of those Square Getter triples from Footscray.  Fun times ahead for us all!


----------



## billerb1

Wes S said:


> Hey there.  I just want to say, I have learned a ton from reading all your past post and especially in the WA2 thread.  I learned about the U709 there, and I am currently running a G.E.C. U709 in my Pendant.  The U709 took things to another level, and is my number 1 rectifier.
> 
> You really jumped back in at great time, and I also picked up a pair of those Square Getter triples from Footscray.  Fun times ahead for us all!


Thanks my friend.  Have enjoyed and learned much from your posts as well.  Gotta say I am really jazzed to give these a go.  I've been a Pied Piper for my Telefunken ECC801S's for a really long time.  They seem to have such a pure synergy with the 2 pair of GEC's in my WA2 mix...I haven't even looked for a tube (other than stealing a back-up pair of GEC 6AS7G's) in 3 or 4 years.  But after running into Sammy and reading all the beyond-superlative descriptions, I feel like a little kid about a week out from Christmas.  Really excited.


----------



## ksorota

Guidostrunk said:


> I was waiting for one of you to get these and post some thoughts.


So I do not really have a home to discuss the CV491 Footscray so I will leave my initial impressions here.  

They retain that Footscray imaging that has been taking us all for a ride.  The air around the music was immediately noticeable over the 7730's that I had in prior.  Compared to the 7730s, these CV491s do not have quite the same supple tonality and skew towards brighter, but the dimensionality is top notch.  This is a great tube and really brings up the details in music.  I have to let them cook in a little more and then swap back in the 7730s.  

The result of this testing has made me more likely to pick up the 6067 Footscrazies


----------



## Wes S

ksorota said:


> So I do not really have a home to discuss the CV491 Footscray so I will leave my initial impressions here.
> 
> They retain that Footscray imaging that has been taking us all for a ride.  The air around the music was immediately noticeable over the 7730's that I had in prior.  Compared to the 7730s, these CV491s do not have quite the same supple tonality and skew towards brighter, but the dimensionality is top notch.  This is a great tube and really brings up the details in music.  I have to let them cook in a little more and then swap back in the 7730s.
> 
> The result of this testing has made me more likely to pick up the 6067 Footscrazies


Nice man!  Are your 7730's d getters?  They must be good, if you are thinking about spending $400 on the 6067.


----------



## Wes S

@ksorota  I would love to know how the bass on the CV491, compares to the 7730?


----------



## ksorota

I’m trying to sort that out now



Wes S said:


> @ksorota  I would love to know how the bass on the CV491, compares to the 7730?



I’ll switch tubes today or tomorrow.

The bass is not lacking, and i might call it delicate. Very good detail in the bass.


----------



## Wes S

ksorota said:


> I’m trying to sort that out now
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sweet thanks bro!  I am trying to decide if I should pick up another pair, as I still have not received any update on my first pair, and I have a feeling these won't last long.


----------



## ksorota

Quick swap and the bass is more on the 7730's.  Their is more impact and overall warmth to the sound.  

The CV's only have about 36 hours of run time on them and the 7730s probably closer to 150 or more so take that info as you will.  The CVs may settle in a little more reduce some of the upper energy, but I am not sure they beat the 7730s, just another flavor.  I would give the detail retrieval edge and air/holographictivity to the CV's and to the 7730s goes the Bass impact/depth and tonal richness.   

Ill do some more comparisons and report back.


----------



## Wes S

ksorota said:


> Quick swap and the bass is more on the 7730's.  Their is more impact and overall warmth to the sound.
> 
> The CV's only have about 36 hours of run time on them and the 7730s probably closer to 150 or more so take that info as you will.  The CVs may settle in a little more reduce some of the upper energy, but I am not sure they beat the 7730s, just another flavor.  I would give the detail retrieval edge and air/holographictivity to the CV's and to the 7730s goes the Bass impact/depth and tonal richness.
> 
> Ill do some more comparisons and report back.


Heck yeah!  Thanks bro! I look forward to hearing your thoughts, however I think I am most likely just gonna stick with my 7730's, as I am definitely not looking for a lighter/brighter tilt.


----------



## TK16

ksorota said:


> Quick swap and the bass is more on the 7730's.  Their is more impact and overall warmth to the sound.
> 
> The CV's only have about 36 hours of run time on them and the 7730s probably closer to 150 or more so take that info as you will.  The CVs may settle in a little more reduce some of the upper energy, but I am not sure they beat the 7730s, just another flavor.  I would give the detail retrieval edge and air/holographictivity to the CV's and to the 7730s goes the Bass impact/depth and tonal richness.
> 
> Ill do some more comparisons and report back.


You're description of those CV491 sounds a lot like my  Brimar 1955 square getter ECC82. Too hot in the highs.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> You're description of those CV491 sounds a lot like my  Brimar 1955 square getter ECC82. Too hot in the highs.


I agree and was actually going to write the same thing.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I agree and was actually going to write the same thing.


CV419 is just the military equivalent of a ECC82 I think. I almost didn't buy the Footscray's because of my personal experience with Brimar.


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> CV419 is just the military equivalent of a ECC82 I think. I almost didn't buy the Footscray's because of my personal experience with Brimar.


Interesting…because in my ‘ksoroLP’, I have from time to time rolled in the CV2492 to great enjoyment…😌🤷🏻…


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> Interesting…because in my ‘ksoroLP’, I have from time to time rolled in the CV2492 to great enjoyment…😌🤷🏻…


Different strokes for different folks.   I was a major advocate of the Brimar CV2492 back in my early LP days, so I can see where some would love and others no so much.  They are all about the treble, and could work great in certain situations or preferences.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Different strokes for different folks.   I was a major advocate of the Brimar CV2492 back in my early LP days, so I can see where some would love and others no so much.  They are all about the treble, and could work great in certain situations or preferences.


100% agree.


----------



## Rowethren

After a few days usage I can confirm the January Footscrays won't be going anywhere! Long live the King!


----------



## TK16

Rowethren said:


> After a few days usage I can confirm the January Footscrays won't be going anywhere! Long live the King!


Sounds like to me at least that you have had a bad experience. Send them to me for a 5,000+ hour burn in and can get them back to you in a mere 12-15 years. 😁


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> I would give the detail retrieval edge and air/holographictivity to the CV491s and to the 7730s goes the Bass impact/depth and tonal richness.


Idea 🤔?:…..Why not try _a_ CV491 with _a _7730 to see if you get the attributes of each?…


----------



## ksorota

jonathan c said:


> Idea 🤔?:…..Why not try _a_ CV491 with _a _7730 to see if you get the attributes of each?…



That is a unique idea...maybe just maybe I could be so bold!


----------



## ksorota

Rowethren said:


> After a few days usage I can confirm the January Footscrays won't be going anywhere! Long live the King!



We all were suckered into buying the later production halo getters...we were bamboozled! Think of all those hoarded tubes (looking at you Sam, Wes  and Jon)that now need a new home!


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> We all were suckered into buying the later production halo getters...we were bamboozled! Think of all those hoarded tubes (looking at you Sam, Wes  and Jon)that now need a new home!


😂😂😂


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> That is a unique idea...maybe just maybe I could be so bold!


They are both 12AU7s with same heater current, plate dissipation…etc…


----------



## Rowethren

ksorota said:


> We all were suckered into buying the later production halo getters...we were bamboozled! Think of all those hoarded tubes (looking at you Sam, Wes  and Jon)that now need a new home!


 Clearly Sanjiv reserved the best Footscray for the best people


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> Think of all those hoarded tubes (looking at you Sam, Wes  and Jon)that now need a new home!


The Footscrays have a few new homes _chez moi_. They are the LP, MJ-II, Woo WA3, Woo WA6, and _possibly _the Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL MZ3 which uses 12AT7s !! 🤪


----------



## jonathan c

Rowethren said:


> Clearly Sanjiv reserved the best Footscray for the best people


Count yourself in…


----------



## jonathan c

jonathan c said:


> Idea 🤔?:…..Why not try _a_ CV491 with _a _7730 to see if you get the attributes of each?…


The only hitch that I can think of is if each tube socket is directly part of one channel - if the tube preamplification occurs by channel.


----------



## ksorota

jonathan c said:


> The Footscrays have a few new homes _chez moi_. They are the LP, MJ-II, Woo WA3, Woo WA6, and _possibly _the Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL MZ3 which uses 12AT7s !! 🤪



So is the WA3 the precursor to WA6? 

Do they sound drastically different?


----------



## TK16

@bcowen when are your tubes due for delivery, interested in your impressions.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> @bcowen when are your tubes due for delivery, interested in your impressions.


They landed in Memphis today.  No delivery date shown, but I'm guessing Monday or Tuesday next week.  Have the adapter all spit shined and ready to go.


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> They landed in Memphis today.  No delivery date shown, but I'm guessing Monday or Tuesday next week.  Have the adapter all spit shined and ready to go.


Definitely looking forward to hearing your thoughts bro!


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> So is the WA3 the precursor to WA6?
> 
> Do they sound drastically different?


The WA3 is OTL with no rectifier tube; the WA6 is OTC with rectifier tube. The two have a close sonic relationship; my and others comments on the two are in the Woo WA3 threads. The WA3 was discontinued 😔 and was replaced by the WA2.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> They landed in Memphis today.  No delivery date shown, but I'm guessing Monday or Tuesday next week.  Have the adapter all spit shined and ready to go.


Hopefully you got the right 1, the D getter?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Hopefully you got the right 1, the D getter?


I got the '57's, which I think are halo getters?  That's what you guys said to get, and I just followed along like a lost puppy.


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> Definitely looking forward to hearing your thoughts bro!


Looking forward to hearing them!


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I got the '57's, which I think are halo getters?  That's what you guys said to get, and I just followed along like a lost puppy.


Just kidding. I think? Certain people let me buy 2 pair of the o getter and then announced the D getter version. Not very cool if you ask me.😅


----------



## Rowethren

TK16 said:


> Just kidding. I think? Certain people let me buy 2 pair of the o getter and then announced the D getter version. Not very cool if you ask me.😅


I felt the same when I took delivery of my Rochester 58s and you had all moved on to Footscray 57


----------



## jonathan c

Rowethren said:


> I felt the same when I took delivery of my Rochester 58s and you had all moved on to Footscray 57


It is not our fault that the 1957 KB/FB are otherworldly in their sound quality…☝️😜


----------



## billerb1

jonathan c said:


> The WA3 is OTL with no rectifier tube; the WA6 is OTC with rectifier tube. The two have a close sonic relationship; my and others comments on the two are in the Woo WA3 threads. The WA3 was discontinued 😔 and was replaced by the WA2.


My WA2 is awaiting anxiously, with bait on it's breath.  My Tele ECC801S's are just plain pissed.  Haven't spoken to me in 3 days.


----------



## billerb1

Rowethren said:


> I felt the same when I took delivery of my Rochester 58s and you had all moved on to Footscray 57


I blame Sammy.  This is what happens when you spend too much time in a vortex.


----------



## jonathan c

jonathan c said:


> The Footscrays have a few new homes _chez moi_. They are the LP, MJ-II, Woo WA3, Woo WA6, and _possibly _the Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL MZ3 which uses 12AT7s !! 🤪


‘Possibly’ is now ‘certainly’! The LTA MZ3 is ordered. The tube lineup will be: input (2) = Jan/1957 Footscray, output (2) = 1959 Melz 6N8S…._a whole lotta shakin’ goin’ on…🤪_


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> I blame Sammy.  This is what happens when you spend too much time in a vortex.


Don’t forget that in a vortex time ceases to exist as a dimension…🤪😜🤪😜🤪…


----------



## billerb1

jonathan c said:


> Don’t forget that in a vortex time ceases to exist as a dimension…🤪😜🤪😜🤪…


Well of course it does.  Doesn't ?


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> My WA2 is awaiting anxiously, with bait on it's breath.  My Tele ECC801S's are just plain pissed.  Haven't spoken to me in 3 days.


Little bratwursts…if they do not improve their behaviour, they can telefunken off…


----------



## billerb1

jonathan c said:


> Little bratwursts…if they do not improve their behaviour, they can telefunken off…


Spoiled brats.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> Just kidding. I think? Certain people let me buy 2 pair of the o getter and then announced the D getter version. Not very cool if you ask me.😅


I'll send my D getters for testing purposes 😉


----------



## Guidostrunk

billerb1 said:


> I blame Sammy.  This is what happens when you spend too much time in a vortex.


😂😂😂


----------



## billerb1

I can't believe this.  Ordered the 57 Footscary triples on Wednesday.  They are already at the Portland FedEx this morning!  Weren't scheduled for delivery till Wednesday.  I'm having heart palpitations.  Maybe it's just gas


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> I can't believe this.  Ordered the 57 Footscary triples on Wednesday.  They are already at the Portland FedEx this morning!  Weren't scheduled for delivery till Wednesday.  I'm having heart palpitations.  Maybe it's just gas


I checked your vitals on my tester and you indeed have gas. Expect your tubes on Monday I think. Shipping is quick from India.


----------



## Zurv (Jun 19, 2021)

tubes are a trap! you'll end up having billions of them that you used for a few days then get more!
(here is one of my hidden tube spots (ie, a place where the wife doesn't see them.. as she would "clean" them into the trash)





Long live tubes!

I've been waiting for a bit as my mj2 had to go back to schiit for repairs. XLR out on the left channel had static. tho.. i'm not sure why anyone would use it as a PRE. It isn't great for that...

It is a shame schiit cancelled this unit with no plans for a replacement


----------



## Wes S

billerb1 said:


> I can't believe this.  Ordered the 57 Footscary triples on Wednesday.  They are already at the Portland FedEx this morning!  Weren't scheduled for delivery till Wednesday.  I'm having heart palpitations.  Maybe it's just gas


You are lucky bro!  I just checked my tracking and mine are bouncing around India still, and it looks like my address is not correct on the Fedex label, so I am not sure if I am even going to get mine.  This will be my 3rd set of tubes in limbo now.


----------



## billerb1

Wes S said:


> You are lucky bro!  I just checked my tracking and mine are bouncing around India still, and it looks like my address is not correct on the Fedex label, so I am not sure if I am even going to get mine.  This will be my 3rd set of tubes in limbo now.


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> You are lucky bro!  I just checked my tracking and mine are bouncing around India still, and it looks like my address is not correct on the Fedex label, so I am not sure if I am even going to get mine.  This will be my 3rd set of tubes in limbo now.


Sorry went ahead and changed your shipping to my address, totally not my fault! 😀


----------



## G0rt

Mine arrive Monday, They say.

But you know how They are.


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> I can't believe this.  Ordered the 57 Footscary triples on Wednesday.  They are already at the Portland FedEx this morning!  Weren't scheduled for delivery till Wednesday.  I'm having heart palpitations.  Maybe it's just gas


Better that the gas be in you than in the tubes…


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> I checked your vitals on my tester and you indeed have gas. Expect your tubes on Monday I think. Shipping is quick from India.


Pulse Engineering / Tube Store for service and timeliness is 🥇!!


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 19, 2021)

Zurv said:


> tubes are a trap! you'll end up having billions of them that you used for a few days then get more!
> (here is one of my hidden tube spots (ie, a place where the wife doesn't see them.. as she would "clean" them into the trash)
> 
> 
> ...


I assume that your wife does not read this forum or thread…and I think Schiit made a large mistake in not having a Mjolnir replacement…


----------



## Zurv

jonathan c said:


> I assume that your wife does not read this forum or thread…and I think Schiit made a large mistake in not having a Mjolnir replacement…


haha.. she does not. She loves her skull candy headphones  

The price point was right also for the mj2 but i guess even with that few people bought it.
6NS7 would have been more to my liking (thus why I have the woo wa22) but i really enjoy the mj2.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Zurv said:


> haha.. she does not. She loves her skull candy headphones
> 
> The price point was right also for the mj2 but i guess even with that few people bought it.
> 6NS7 would have been more to my liking (thus why I have the woo wa22) but i really enjoy the mj2.


You should get some adapters and toss those Footscray in the 6sn7 slot 😁


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> You should get some adapters and toss those Footscray in the 6sn7 slot 😁


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Just kidding. I think? Certain people let me buy 2 pair of the o getter and then announced the D getter version. Not very cool if you ask me.😅


That's just wrong.  But if it makes you feel any better, they did the same thing to me.  We need to plan a tube pilfering spree to get even.


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> You should get some adapters and toss those Footscray in the 6sn7 slot 😁


Mine is already drooling in anticipation:


----------



## bcowen (Jun 19, 2021)

billerb1 said:


> I blame Sammy.  This is what happens when you spend too much time in a vortex.


I'll blame Sammy too then.  Years of blaming @TK16 for everything has produced no tangible results, so time to try something different.


----------



## bcowen

Zurv said:


> tubes are a trap! you'll end up having billions of them that you used for a few days then get more!
> (here is one of my hidden tube spots (ie, a place where the wife doesn't see them.. as she would "clean" them into the trash)
> 
> 
> ...


I keep mine under the bed.   I think the last time the wife looked under there was in 1983.


----------



## bcowen

G0rt said:


> Mine arrive Monday, They say.
> 
> But you know how They are.


So do mine.  If you get yours, I hope I have the same They.


----------



## Zurv (Jun 19, 2021)

bcowen said:


> I keep mine under the bed.   I think the last time the wife looked under there was in 1983.


hahah.. thanks for making me feel better about myself 

the internet is a bad place. Ez to normalize crazy.


----------



## M-83

Ordered these last night for MJ2 on the advice of @Wes S and others in this thread


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> I'll blame Sammy too then.  Years of blaming @TK16 for everything has produced no tangible results, so time to try something different.


😂😂😂


----------



## Guidostrunk

M-83 said:


> Ordered these last night for MJ2 on the advice of @Wes S and others in this thread


Welcome to the family bro!


----------



## M-83

Guidostrunk said:


> Welcome to the family bro!


Cheers bud!  Looking forward to receiving them


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Ordered these last night for MJ2 on the advice of @Wes S and others in this thread


This dual purchase you will never regret! Even before full break-in, with the Footscrays you will feel “there” with the music…🎶 😊…


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> I'll blame Sammy too then.  Years of blaming @TK16 for everything has produced no tangible results, so time to try something different.


Wow, just think…the BC seal of disapproval…☝️


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> That's just wrong.  But if it makes you feel any better, they did the same thing to me.  We need to plan a  *GE* tube spree to get even.


…FTFY (Reg. TM)…


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> This dual purchase you will never regret! Even before full break-in, with the Footscrays you will feel “there” with the music…🎶 😊…


Awesome, I'm really look forward to hearing them.  I've family living in Sidcup not too far from where the Brimar building was situated.  Shame that the building is no longer there.  https://www.effectrode.com/news/the-brimar-valve-works/


----------



## M-83

M-83 said:


> Ordered these last night for MJ2 on the advice of @Wes S and others in this thread


Are the NOVIB adapters easy to remove should I wish to for any reason?  Will be nice to see the tubes situated higher up in the amp.

I hadn't yet got round to ordering a pair of NOVIB socket savers so this has worked out nicely.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Wow, just think…the BC seal of disapproval…☝️


Many try, but few succeed.  It's an elite club.


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Are the NOVIB adapters easy to remove should I wish to for any reason?  Will be nice to see the tubes situated higher up in the amp.
> 
> I hadn't yet got round to ordering a pair of NOVIB socket savers so this has worked out nicely.


My experience is that the fit between the tube and adapter is quite tighter than that between adapter and socket…so both come out at the same time easily…


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> …FTFY (Reg. TM)…


My intention was to pilfer some holy grail tubes, not go dumpster diving (we'll hold off on that until dinner time).


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I'll blame Sammy too then.  Years of blaming @TK16 for everything has produced no tangible results, so time to try something different.


Deal! Blame someone else for a change. Sorry @Guidostrunk the blame lies with you now.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Deal! Blame someone else for a change. Sorry @Guidostrunk the blame lies with you now.


If the Footscray lights my fire, then he'll be my hero and I'll be back to blaming you.  Just sayin'.


----------



## Zurv (Jun 19, 2021)

wait.. can i get these brimar 1957 tubes working in my PL? (12au7?)
oh you monsters.... i thought i was safe because my mj2 was away getting repaired.

update:

What.. i need to run from this site..
ordered 2 x
*BRIMAR F6067T - Very rare 1950'S MINT NOS NIB. Large Halo Getter STC Footscray Prod. ENGLAND. Mil Black Plate Prem. Grade Long Life ECC82/CV4003/12AU7/13D5 *

*sigh* i don't even know why?!?

damn you and all your Footscray talk!
they do look cool


----------



## ksorota

Zurv said:


> wait.. can i get these brimar 1957 tubes working in my PL? (12au7?)
> oh you monsters.... i thought i was safe because my mj2 was away getting repaired.
> 
> update:
> ...



I almost ordered these, but I’m waiting for the early production square getters to be announced! 😂

I’m all honestly though, they are in the cart ready for checkout…trying to hold my finger back…


----------



## Zurv (Jun 19, 2021)

It is only fair that you order them too. I don't even know why i should be excited about these... i just got sucked up with all the talk of scary feet!
(and they look cool... AND I won't even see it!! the amp is behind my speaker!)








maybe is should get that adaptor for 6SN7. Don't i need to be worry about 'n stuff? It can't just be as simple as changing the pins.


----------



## bcowen (Jun 19, 2021)

Zurv said:


> It is only fair that you order them too. I don't even know why i should be excited about these... i just got sucked up with all the talk of scary feet!
> (and they look cool... AND I won't even see it!! the amp is behind my speaker!)
> 
> 
> ...


Actually, it _can_ be that simple as long as you pay attention to the tube's electrical parameters.  The 12AU7 and 6SN7 are very similar electrically and have the same gain (or amplification factor), and the 12AU7 only pulls half the heater current of the 6SN7 (a good thing for your amp) when wired for 6.3 volt operation.  The 6SN7 operates only at 6.3 volts on the heaters, but the 12AU7 is designed to operate with either 6.3 volts or 12.6 depending on whether the heater pins are wired in series or parallel.  The adapter _should_ be set up to run the 12AU7 at 6.3v if going into a 6SN7 socket, and I've never had an issue myself with even the Chinese adapters being wired correctly. I wouldn't have any question that Tubemongers (or Pulse) are wired as they should be.  So plug and play with the right adapter, basically.

Note that I bought the 12AT7 version of the Footscray to go in a 6SN7 socket.  Taking a gamble that it'll work OK, as the 12AT7 has 3x the gain of a 12AU7.  If it doesn't work, I'll have to buy a new amp I guess.   If you go with the 12AU7 version of the Footscray, you should have no issues at all subbing it for a 6SN7.


----------



## Zurv (Jun 19, 2021)

So.. no real issue putting the cv4003/12au7 into the wa22 gain? (ie, 6ns7) other than it might not sound as good as the RCA i was going to use?
It makes more sense there than being in an amp that my wife uses to watch CNN 





I guess it really is on the slow boat from china


----------



## jonathan c

Zurv said:


> So.. no real issue putting the cv4003/12au7 into the wa22 gain? (ie, 6ns7) other than it might not sound as good as the RCA i was going to use?
> It makes more sense there than being in an amp that my wife uses to watch CNN
> 
> 
> ...


I have always received adapters ordered from China earlier than stated (Xuling Audio Lab).


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 19, 2021)

bcowen said:


> Actually, it _can_ be that simple as long as you pay attention to the tube's electrical parameters.  The 12AU7 and 6SN7 are very similar electrically and have the same gain (or amplification factor), and the 12AU7 only pulls half the heater current of the 6SN7 (a good thing for your amp) when wired for 6.3 volt operation.  The 6SN7 operates only at 6.3 volts on the heaters, but the 12AU7 is designed to operate with either 6.3 volts or 12.6 depending on whether the heater pins are wired in series or parallel.  The adapter _should_ be set up to run the 12AU7 at 6.3v if going into a 6SN7 socket, and I've never had an issue myself with even the Chinese adapters being wired correctly. I wouldn't have any question that Tubemongers (or Pulse) are wired as they should be.  So plug and play with the right adapter, basically.
> 
> Note that I bought the 12AT7 version of the Footscray to go in a 6SN7 socket.  Taking a gamble that it'll work OK, as the 12AT7 has 3x the gain of a 12AU7.  If it doesn't work, I'll have to buy a new amp I guess.   If you go with the 12AU7 version of the Footscray, you should have no issues at all subbing it for a 6SN7.


The 12AU7 from Footscray will still be excellent and will not have the triple mica feature of the 12AT7.


----------



## jonathan c

Zurv said:


> It is only fair that you order them too. I don't even know why i should be excited about these... i just got sucked up with all the talk of scary feet!
> (and they look cool... AND I won't even see it!! the amp is behind my speaker!)
> 
> 
> ...


If you get fired up about “talk of scary feet”, just ask @bcowen to extol the virtues of “Frankentubes” ! 🤪😜🤪


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> I almost ordered these, but I’m waiting for the early production square getters to be announced! 😂
> 
> I’m all honestly though, they are in the cart ready for checkout…trying to hold my finger back…


Just as you have your right hand under control, your left hand decides _carpe diem…_


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> My intention was to pilfer some holy grail tubes, not go dumpster diving (we'll hold off on that until dinner time).


I was thinking of nocturnal swapping of GEs for KB/FBs…10,000-to-1 basis…; 5,000-to-1 basis with a touchup GEC for KB/FB…


----------



## jonathan c

Zurv said:


> hahah.. thanks for making me feel better about myself
> 
> the internet is a bad place. Ez to normalize crazy.


…I did say elsewhere that we are Footscrazy…🤪😜


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> If you get fired up about “talk of scary feet”, just ask @bcowen to extol the virtues of “Frankentubes” ! 🤪😜🤪


The Frankentube was one of my top 3 favorites in the Lyr 3, and is tied for favorite in the Vali 2 (along with a Brimar 6BQ7A).  I don't have the Lyr 3 any more, but if the Footscray is a no-go in the Incubus, it'll elevate the performance of the Vali 2 a bit I'd think.   Of course my first Franken was $5 and I'm probably not going to find any Footscray's for that...at least this week.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> I was thinking of nocturnal swapping of GEs for KB/FBs…10,000-to-1 basis…; 5,000-to-1 basis with a touchup GEC for KB/FB…


That's assuming you could get a penny a piece for the GE's (which is a penny a piece more than they're worth).  Not that I don't like GE's or anything of course, kind of.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> Deal! Blame someone else for a change. Sorry @Guidostrunk the blame lies with you now.


🤣


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Many try, but few succeed.  It's an elite club.


…the few, the proud, the bcoweens…🥇🙄


----------



## jonathan c

Back to the MJ-II, with the Brimar CV4033 KB/FB 1957 (reverently aka Footscray)…..

Guess what power-hungry, high impedance, dynamic-driver headphone - that has been around a while and takes _forever and a day _to break in - sounds magnificently natural when driven by the MJ-II?

The Beyerdynamic DT-880 (600 ohm) !!

Give it a go, you may be delightfully surprised.


----------



## Wes S

M-83 said:


> Ordered these last night for MJ2 on the advice of @Wes S and others in this thread


Heck yeah man!  Welcome to the club, and get ready for musical bliss.


----------



## Wes S

ksorota said:


> I almost ordered these, but I’m waiting for the early production square getters to be announced! 😂
> 
> I’m all honestly though, they are in the cart ready for checkout…trying to hold my finger back…


I almost pulled the trigger on a set yesterday, so tempting but so expensive. . .If a Square Getter version became available I would not be able to resist.


----------



## JohnBal

I wonder, has anyone tried the Footscray CV4033 in a Lyr 3 with the proper adapter? I am very intrigued by this tube.


----------



## Guidostrunk

JohnBal said:


> I wonder, has anyone tried the Footscray CV4033 in a Lyr 3 with the proper adapter? I am very intrigued by this tube.


I think @bcowen has one and will be using an adapter on his. I'm sure he'll chime in. I'm not 100% certain he still has his lyr 3.


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> I think @bcowen has one and will be using an adapter on his. I'm sure he'll chime in. I'm not 100% certain he still has his lyr 3.


My Footscrayziness will begin tomorrow hopefully if FedEx delivers as indicated.  No longer have the Lyr 3 though -- I'll be giving the CV4033 a spin in my Incubus (OTL) amp that uses a single 6SN7 natively.  

I ran a number of 12AU7's (and variants) in the Lyr 3 back when I had it, and they all worked just fine.  Similar electrical characteristics, and the same gain as a 6SN7.  Never tried a 12AT7 though, so this will be new territory.


----------



## TK16

These tubes shouldn't go for much money. Probably about $200 for the quad judging by past auctions. Hamburg ECC82 late 50's production. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Unique-4-x...9-bfe8-45fc-9f4c-7deff838e486&redirect=mobile


----------



## JohnBal

bcowen said:


> My Footscrayziness will begin tomorrow hopefully if FedEx delivers as indicated.  No longer have the Lyr 3 though -- I'll be giving the CV4033 a spin in my Incubus (OTL) amp that uses a single 6SN7 natively.
> 
> I ran a number of 12AU7's (and variants) in the Lyr 3 back when I had it, and they all worked just fine.  Similar electrical characteristics, and the same gain as a 6SN7.  Never tried a 12AT7 though, so this will be new territory.


Thanks for the reply. I think as long as the Lyr 3 doesn't blow up, I might give this a try.


----------



## jonathan c

JohnBal said:


> I wonder, has anyone tried the Footscray CV4033 in a Lyr 3 with the proper adapter? I am very intrigued by this tube.


The Footscray CV4033, with its utter realism, whispers: “come into my parlour”….and YOU are done…


----------



## Zurv

what.. it is footscray!? not scary foot!??!

i'm out!?!?

(we'll no.. i'll still try them)


----------



## M-83

Wes S said:


> Heck yeah man! Welcome to the club, and get ready for musical bliss.


Cheers dude!


----------



## ksorota

Mike-WI said:


> My favorite gin is The Botanist







Time to verify!


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Cheers dude!


“Hip-hip-Footscray!”👏🍻👏🍻…


----------



## Wes S

ksorota said:


> Time to verify!


Where do you put the tubes in that thing?


----------



## ksorota

Wes S said:


> Where do you put the tubes in that thing?



I put them on top to warm them up!


----------



## Wes S

ksorota said:


> I put them on top to warm them up!


LOL!


----------



## ksorota

jonathan c said:


> The WA3 is OTL with no rectifier tube; the WA6 is OTC with rectifier tube. The two have a close sonic relationship; my and others comments on the two are in the Woo WA3 threads. The WA3 was discontinued 😔 and was replaced by the WA2.


I’ll check out the thread, might as well sell me the WA3 so i can more thoroughly understand what you are saying!


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> I’ll check out the thread, might as well sell me the WA3 so i can more thoroughly understand what you are saying!


😂😂😂


----------



## DougD

bcowen said:


> Mine is already drooling in anticipation:


No offense to the 1st posted picture of an adapter socket, but the labeling on this one is brilliant and perfect. 

As a tube noob, this is what I need.


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> I’ll check out the thread, might as well sell me the WA3 so i can more thoroughly understand what you are saying!


The WA3 is a keeper. Soon, it will be joined by Schiit Valhalla II. Why? Low output impedance to bring Clear, Gjallarhorn JM Edition, LCD-X (55ohm, 32ohm, 20ohm and all > 100 dB/V) into the OTL-driven mix - probably with the low gain setting.


----------



## jonathan c

DougD said:


> No offense to the 1st posted picture of an adapter socket, but the labeling on this one is brilliant and perfect.
> 
> As a tube noob, this is what I need.


I am certain that the adapter socket will get over being surpassed - by a label, no less! 😜


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 20, 2021)

ksorota said:


>


That is a colossal 200 proof capacitor! How does it not make the SS Mjolnir 1 sound grainy…?…😖


----------



## Wes S (Jun 21, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> The WA3 is a keeper. Soon, it will be joined by Schiit Valhalla II. Why? Low output impedance to bring Clear, Gjallarhorn JM Edition, LCD-X (55ohm, 32ohm, 20ohm and all > 100 dB/V) into the OTL-driven mix - probably with the low gain setting.


I love the V2!  The V2 was my first amp, and I loved my time with it.  Hopefully you have better luck with low impedance headphones and the V2, as for me it just did not have the magic it has with high impedance headphones.  I am looking forward to your thoughts, as I did not get a chance to try it with the mighty Footscray's before I sold it.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 21, 2021)

Good news!  My Square Getter Footscray CV4033 triple's have arrived in the states, and it should not be much longer. . . Fedex has not failed me yet.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Good news!  My Square Getter Footscray CV4033 triple's have arrived in the states, and it should not be much longer. . . Fedex has not failed me yet.


USA or the time warp USSR?…


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> I love the V2!  The V2 was my first amp, and I loved my time with it.  Hopefully you have better luck with low impedance headphones and the V2, as for me it just did not have the magic it has with high impedance headphones.  I am looking forward to your thoughts, as I did not get a chance to try it with the mighty Footscray's before I sold it.


If the V-II ends up being so-so for low-Z h/p, I will bring it to our mountain retreat where it can be the high-Z brother to the MJ-II…


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> USA or the time warp USSR?…


Thankfully it's USA.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Good news!  My Square Getter Footscray CV4033 triple's have arrived in the states, and it should not be much longer. . . Fedex has not failed me yet.


I expect a review that these sound EXACTLY the same as the crappy O getters I have! 😁


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> I expect a review that these sound EXACTLY the same as the crappy O getters I have! 😁


I am so anxious to find this out myself, as I have yet to find an O getter, that can hang with or best a Square Getter of the same tube.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I am so anxious to find this out myself, as I have yet to find an O getter, that can hang with or best a Square Getter of the same tube.


Unfortunately for me at least, I have come to the same conclusion myself. Haven't found 1 example yet that an O can beat a D/square getter of the same tube.


----------



## G0rt

TK16 said:


> Unfortunately for me at least, I have come to the same conclusion myself. Haven't found 1 example yet that an O can beat a D/square getter of the same tube.


Isn't it more the case that older is better, since getter frames have no actual bearing on electrical characteristics?


----------



## Wes S

G0rt said:


> Isn't it more the case that older is better, since getter frames have no actual bearing on electrical characteristics?


The getter is an indicator of how old the tube is, and Square and D Getters came before the O.


----------



## G0rt

Wes S said:


> The getter is an indicator of how old the tube is, and Square and D Getters came before the O.


Exactly what I was getting at.

Black vs gray plates being another indicator.


----------



## Wes S

G0rt said:


> Exactly what I was getting at.
> 
> Black vs gray plates being another indicator.


Got ya.  I have always wondered this myself, as other than the getter difference the construction looks the exact same.  Can the shape of the getter actually have an effect on the sound?  I have yet to find an answer, but the square and d getters are always superior, in my experience.


----------



## TK16

G0rt said:


> Isn't it more the case that older is better, since getter frames have no actual bearing on electrical characteristics?


The getter doesn't determine which tube is better. Year of production for the same tube is. Older the better is the general rule.


----------



## G0rt

Footscray '57 halo triple micas arrived and installed, so I'll spend the week breaking them in. Date codes are 2F7, so mid year.

Even fresh out of the boxes, they're impressive, driving a picky pair of HD800/SDR on high gain, balanced.

ATM, Dead Can Dance/Wake...


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Got ya.  I have always wondered this myself, as other than the getter difference the construction looks the exact same.  Can the shape of the getter actually have an effect on the sound?  I have yet to find an answer, but the square and d getters are always superior, in my experience.


Could it be that tubes with a square or d getter are assembled with greater precision than tubes with o getters since the getters are not concentric with the tube inner walls?


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> Could it be that tubes with a square or d getter are assembled with greater precision than tubes with o getters since the getters are not concentric with the tube inner walls?


Good question!


----------



## ksorota

My theory is that it’s because they were less “engineered”, overbuilt and probably use “better” (ie more toxic) chemicals in the construction. Then they got more precise with circular getters, optimized materials (ie cost considerations) and more exacting amplification. I don’t know?!?!


----------



## Wes S

ksorota said:


> My theory is that it’s because they were less “engineered”, overbuilt and probably use “better” (ie more toxic) chemicals in the construction. Then they got more precise with circular getters, optimized materials (ie cost considerations) and more exacting amplification. I don’t know?!?!


Great theory @ksorota!


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Got ya.  I have always wondered this myself, as other than the getter difference the construction looks the exact same.  Can the shape of the getter actually have an effect on the sound?  I have yet to find an answer, but the square and d getters are always superior, in my experience.


Personally, I'll take a round getter _anything_ over _any_ D-getter GE.  But that's just me.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Personally, I'll take a round getter _anything_ over _any_ D-getter GE.  But that's just me.


Same here unless it's a dimple getter tube.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Personally, I'll take a round getter _anything_ over _any_ D-g*u*tter GE.  But that's just me.


Once again, FTFY [Reg. TM, © bcowen: 2021]


----------



## Mike-WI

ksorota said:


> Time to verify!


Enjoy


----------



## Guidostrunk

This album is killing me right now 😂
I know I posted this elsewhere but man oh man is it good! If you're open to some funk/jazz with a hint of Zappa. Give it a whirl. 
https://tidal.com/album/42110144


----------



## Guidostrunk

Guidostrunk said:


> This album is killing me right now 😂
> I know I posted this elsewhere but man oh man is it good! If you're open to some funk/jazz with a hint of Zappa. Give it a whirl.
> https://tidal.com/album/42110144


One of my favorite live albums


----------



## Guidostrunk

There's even a hint of salsa for ya


----------



## M-83

My Footscray CV4033 triple mica's have arrived!

Daft question time.... Should I peel off the sticker on one of the tubes (pictured below) before using them?


----------



## Wes S (Jun 22, 2021)

M-83 said:


> My Footscray CV4033 triple mica's have arrived!
> 
> Daft question time.... Should I peel off the sticker on one of the tubes (pictured below) before using them?


Heck yeah!  I would leave the stickers, as they are part of the character of the look of the tube.  You would have a hell of a time trying to remove it anyway.


----------



## M-83

Wes S said:


> Heck yeah! Leave the stickers.


Okay nice, I wondered if they'd cause a hazard and/or damage the tube when hot.


----------



## Wes S

M-83 said:


> Okay nice, I wondered if they'd cause a hazard and/or damage the tube when hot.


I hear ya, and wondered the same thing when I first got a tube with a sticker on it years ago.  There are no issues at all, and these tubes don't get blazing hot like some power tubes do.


----------



## Rowethren

M-83 said:


> Okay nice, I wondered if they'd cause a hazard and/or damage the tube when hot.


They were put on in the 50s when they were first manufactured so I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## M-83

Rowethren said:


> They were put on in the 50s when they were first manufactured so I wouldn't worry about it.


Okay thanks.


----------



## M-83

Well...two songs into using the Footscray & they are already sounding excellent!  Already I can see why they have proved popular on this thread


----------



## Rowethren

Now if you only managed to snag a pair of the superior D getter version


----------



## Wes S

Rowethren said:


> Now if you only managed to snag a pair of the superior D getter version


Speaking of D/Square Getters, mine are just down the street and will hopefully be delivered today or tomorrow at the latest.  I have been so freaking anxious waiting for these tubes it's killing me!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Speaking of D/Square Getters, mine are just down the street and will hopefully be delivered today or tomorrow at the latest.  I have been so freaking anxious waiting for these tubes it's killing me!


I should have mine today or tomorrow. Billy got his already and his shipped a day after mine 😂


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> I should have mine today or tomorrow. Billy got his already and his shipped a day after mine 😂


@billerb1 I can speak for everyone here. How do they sound bro? ☝


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> My Footscray CV4033 triple mica's have arrived!
> 
> Daft question time.... Should I peel off the sticker on one of the tubes (pictured below) before using them?


Leave them on…if you take them off, the tubes will sound like GEs…🤪…


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Well...two songs into using the Footscray & they are already sounding excellent!  Already I can see why they have proved popular on this thread


We Footscrayers hold these truths to be self-evident…


----------



## Wes S (Jun 22, 2021)

Hell yes!!!!   Footscray Square Getters are out for delivery and it's gonna be a late night for sure.


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> Leave them on…if you take them off, the tubes will sound like GEs…🤪…


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> We Footscrayers hold these truths to be self-evident…


Lol.  They have rendered all the other tubes I have as redundant.  They really are spectacular.  Tempted to pick up a spare pair.


----------



## M-83

Wes S said:


> Hell yes!!!!   Footscray Square Getters are out for delivery and it's gonna be a late night for sure.


Right on!


----------



## Wes S (Jun 22, 2021)

M-83 said:


> Lol.  They have rendered all the other tubes I have as redundant.  They really are spectacular.  Tempted to pick up a spare pair.


I highly suggest picking up a spare pair if you can swing it.  These tubes will be gone soon, and who knows if we will ever see them again.  I myself, always have to have backups of my favorite tubes.  Knowing how tubes can go unexpectedly at any moment, having a backup is crucial for my mental health.


----------



## G0rt

So, the square frames are a few months older than the halos?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Hell yes!!!!   Footscray Square Getters are out for delivery and it's gonna be a late night for sure.


Me too bro!


----------



## Wes S (Jun 22, 2021)

G0rt said:


> So, the square frames are a few months older than the halos?


I will check all the dates codes on mine, when I get home tonight and will confirm the dates for the Square and Halos that I have.  I know the smaller codes are the ones to go by, not the big print.  I am actually wondering if the square getters where made at the end of 56'.


----------



## Guidostrunk

G0rt said:


> So, the square frames are a few months older than the halos?


January production of 1957


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Me too bro!


Heck yeah bro!  A late night for both of us lies ahead.


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Lol.  They have rendered all the other tubes I have as redundant.  They really are spectacular.  Tempted to pick up a spare pair.


Do so if you can !


----------



## M-83

Are there any that are even better than these?

https://pulsetubestore.com/products...plug-play-ready-to-use?variant=39799867605183


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Are there any that are even better than these?
> 
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products...plug-play-ready-to-use?variant=39799867605183


The January 1957 CV4033 KB/FB with the D / square getter would be the only ones better. They are spoken for. Those above are ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ (or 👍👍👍👍👍).


----------



## Wes S

Happy to confirm my Square Getter Footscray's are actually from 56'.      I believe they were boxed and labeled in January of 57', but the true date code in small white letters is 2G6/928.  1956!  Heck yeah!


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 22, 2021)

Wes S said:


> Happy to confirm my Square Getter Footscray's are actually from 56'.      I believe they were boxed and labeled in January of 57', but the true date code in small white letters is 2G6/928.  1956!  Heck yeah!


Hey, did you leave work early to look at the Footscray tube dates? Or did you get canned for daydreaming about Footscrays (‘scraydreaming’)? [Go back to post 4297]


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> Hey, did you leave work early to look at the Footscray tube dates? Or did you get canned for daydreaming about Footscrays (‘scraydreaming’)? [Go back to post 4297]


LOL!  I left early, as I just couldn't take it knowing they were at home waiting for me, and I had to know the dates asap. 

1956 Brimar CV4033 Triple Mica Footscray are in the house! 





I will report back in 50 hours.


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Hey, did you leave work early to look at the Footscray tube dates? Or did you get canned for daydreaming about Footscrays (‘scraydreaming’)? [Go back to post 4297]


😂


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> LOL!  I left early, as I just couldn't take it knowing they were at home waiting for me, and I had to know the dates asap.
> 
> 1956 Brimar CV4033 Triple Mica Footscray are in the house!
> 
> ...


I bet that you cannot resist the urge to spill the  beans after only a few hours…


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> LOL!  I left early, as I just couldn't take it knowing they were at home waiting for me, and I had to know the dates asap.
> 
> 1956 Brimar CV4033 Triple Mica Footscray are in the house!
> 
> ...


If I figure that code out right those tubes would be 2nd week of July production?
2=week
G=July
6=56

Maybe lol


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 22, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> If I figure that code out right those tubes would be 2nd week of July production?
> 2=week
> G=July
> 6=56
> ...


Or: 2 = to, G = Guidostrunk, 6 = within six days, 928 = 9:28am mail time. 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> If I figure that code out right those tubes would be 2nd week of July production?
> 2=week
> G=July
> 6=56
> ...


I believe you are correct.


----------



## billerb1 (Jun 22, 2021)

TK16 said:


> @billerb1 I can speak for everyone here. How do they sound bro? ☝


Sorry to keep you lunatics in suspense, but as TK knows, I have a tendency to overreact initially to tubes in the Holy Grail category.  It's just the way I am.  So freaking shoot me.  I'm going to try not to do that this time as I am retired now and should be attaining a certain level of maturity.  At least that's what people tell me.  I suspect it is about time.
As Sammy said, I got them yesterday.  They didn't come with the yellow tape on the tubes like the O Getters.  They were wrapped in a non-adhesive cellophane which just slid off.  These things look like they've never seen the light of day.  Totally pristine.  The square getters absolutely glistened in the light.  Have never seen that before.

But maybe you guys are wondering how they sound.  All I can give you are my initial thoughts on a half hour listen...raw out of the box.  I'm not going to listen again until I get 40/50 hours on them.  Switched out the 2 other pair of tubes in my WA2 to lesser quality ones to help keep me from cheating.  I really don't want to hear them again until I'm at least  getting them close to their full potential. 
I always start with the John Coltrane tenor solo and the Bill Evans piano solo on Flamenco Sketches on Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue."  I had a very emotional reaction to it.  Outside of playing live, I've never felt closer to the music.  Instrument timbre was shockingly 'true to size'...not a condensed, scaled-down version.  You could truly hear and feel the instruments breathe.  Venue spatial clues were so apparent and accessible (the room reverb, the size of the venue, the crowd nuances, etc.).  So real, so much like being there.  All with no burn-in.  I'm not saying that my beloved Tele ECC801S's don't provide these things...just not to this degree.  To whatever degree they improve from this point on, in my mind it's all house money.  I'll report back in a few days and look forward to what others think as the other square getters begin to arrive.
Enjoy !!!

Edit:  Know it's hard to make out but my code is the same as Wes S  2G6/928


----------



## M-83 (Jun 22, 2021)

Just ordered a back up pair of the Footscray CV4033 Triple Mica


----------



## Wes S

M-83 said:


> Just ordered a back up pair of the Footscray 4033 Triple Mica


Smart move.


----------



## M-83

Wes S said:


> Smart move.


Yeah it's worth it just in case


----------



## M-83

I don't wish to derail the thread with a load of music posts, but I just wanted to drop this one track here for all to enjoy with a touch of 1957 Footscray


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 22, 2021)

billerb1 said:


> Sorry to keep you lunatics in suspense, but as TK knows, I have a tendency to overreact initially to tubes in the Holy Grail category.  It's just the way I am.  So freaking shoot me.  I'm going to try not to do that this time as I am retired now and should be attaining a certain level of maturity.  At least that's what people tell me.  I suspect it is about time.
> As Sammy said, I got them yesterday.  They didn't come with the yellow tape on the tubes like the O Getters.  They were wrapped in a non-adhesive cellophane which just slid off.  These things look like they've never seen the light of day.  Totally pristine.  The square getters absolutely glistened in the light.  Have never seen that before.
> 
> But maybe you guys are wondering how they sound.  All I can give you are my initial thoughts on a half hour listen...raw out of the box.  I'm not going to listen again until I get 40/50 hours on them.  Switched out the 2 other pair of tubes in my WA2 to lesser quality ones to help keep me from cheating.  I really don't want to hear them again until I'm at least  getting them close to their full potential.
> ...


A great track to use….(Anyway, welcome to Footscray Hotel - where tube aficionados check in but do not check out. Located on the corner of KB and FB. In walking distance from Getter Square…)


----------



## M-83

I've just listened to Caecilia by Fennesz, and honestly, there are gorgeous delicate wispy subtleties in the track right on the outer fringes of the soundstage that I've never picked up on before.

It's so cliché to say I know, but it's true.   The detail with the Footscray tubes is better than my Amperex, Tungsram, Mullard, Tesla, and Genalex tubes.


----------



## M-83

Sorry guys, I just wanna make one more song recommendation for those that listen to EDM:

"Soft Landing (Jody Wisternoff & James Grant Remix)" by David Hohme.

You'll know why when you listen to it.  I'm melting to it right now. I'm about to get stuck into a back-to-back second listen very shortly...


----------



## Rowethren

Guidostrunk said:


> If I figure that code out right those tubes would be 2nd week of July production?
> 2=week
> G=July
> 6=56
> ...


In that case mine are a whole week older than yours, does that mean I win?


----------



## Guidostrunk

In and cooking!


----------



## M-83

Guidostrunk said:


> In and cooking!


Awesome enjoy.  Good looking rig


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> In and cooking!


About a year difference between the square getter and O getter? I'd expect the older tube to sound better. What are your initial impressions?


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> In and cooking!


Mine is cooking too!    I am about to have the first listen. . .


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> About a year difference between the square getter and O getter? I'd expect the older tube to sound better. What are your initial impressions?


As of right now. I mean these are literally out of the box. The O and Square getter are VERY similar in sound. The square sounds a little bigger in dimensionality. Has more clarity and a cleaner /sharper image. The bass on the square at this point is lagging behind the O in impact and slam. Tonally though they're so close. 

The initial thing that jumped out at me was the size of the image. Just seems bigger than the O but I'll do A/B once I get to 100. Lol


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Mine is cooking too!


Fine cooking —> great ‘square’ meal 🤣…


----------



## Wes S (Jun 22, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> As of right now. I mean these are literally out of the box. The O and Square getter are VERY similar in sound. The square sounds a little bigger in dimensionality. Has more clarity and a cleaner /sharper image. The bass on the square at this point is lagging behind the O in impact and slam. Tonally though they're so close.
> 
> The initial thing that jumped out at me was the size of the image. Just seems bigger than the O but I'll do A/B once I get to 100. Lol


I am right there with ya and completely agree with everything said.    I am digging the added clarity, slightly cleaner vocals, and sharper transients so far.


----------



## bcowen

W


Wes S said:


> I am right there with ya and completely agree with everything said.    I am digging the added clarity, slightly cleaner vocals, and sharper transients so far.


Well, here's my 2nd rate, 2nd tier O-getters.  I feel like I'm in the cheap seats.  Shrug.  They test very nicely...maybe they _won't_ suck compared to the D-getters.  Thanks for raining on my parade, @TK16 .   

No, I haven't listened to them yet.  I'll give 'em 25 hours before first listen, as improvements from there should be incremental rather than substantial.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> W
> 
> Well, here's my 2nd rate, 2nd tier O-getters.  I feel like I'm in the cheap seats.  Shrug.  They test very nicely...maybe they _won't_ suck compared to the D-getters.  Thanks for raining on my parade, @TK16 .
> 
> No, I haven't listened to them yet.  I'll give 'em 25 hours before first listen, as improvements from there should be incremental rather than substantial.


TBH they sounded fantastic with a 10 minute burn in.


----------



## JoeyB

I’m still in the honeymoon phase with my 57 halos not sure of date cause they’re in amp now. My question should I burn in 4033 halos from 3rd week of April ‘57  or the 455 square getter from 1st week of february ‘56. 🤔. I’m still basking in the live musical soundstage in my original set, having a hard time taking them out, enjoying the late nights of musical bliss way too much


----------



## Zurv

FU.. all of u.. 
I don't even plan to ever use the mj2 again. (the PL and woo are my mains..)
but some how this scary feet MADE me.. 
so.. fine.. 1957 3-mica pair ordered!
What am i going to do with then? NO IDEA?!?!

I need to stop reading this thread.
BRIMAR CV4033 - Rare 1957 - Mil Black Plate, 3-MICA Halo GT. - STC Footscray Production Prem. Grade Long Life ECC81:CV4024:12AT7 Factory Tested (Plug&Play Ready to Use) × 2
BRIMAR F6067T - Very rare 1950'S MINT NOS NIB. Large Halo Getter STC Footscray Prod. ENGLAND. Mil Black Plate Prem. Grade Long Life ECC82/CV4003/12AU7/13D5 (Plug&Play Ready to Use)  × 2

I think i need better headphones too..


----------



## billerb1

Zurv said:


> FU.. all of u..
> I don't even plan to ever use the mj2 again. (the PL and woo are my mains..)
> but some how this scary feet MADE me..
> so.. fine.. 1957 3-mica pair ordered!
> ...


Speaking of FU's...FU !!!  You've got a WA33.  You're my freaking hero for life.  Send me the pair of Footscrays you just bought for my pitiful little WA2.  I can't
afford my own back-up pair.


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> Speaking of FU's...FU !!!  You've got a WA33.  You're my freaking hero for life.  Send me the pair of Footscrays you just bought for my pitiful little WA2.  I can't
> afford my own back-up pair.


“Oh, by the way, if you have a couple of spare Brimar EZ81s n/i/b, send those too…”


----------



## Zurv

Oh, it is ez to be a dummy and spend money. My crazy move was the speakers.. and.. I’m done. 
i don’t have a car… so tubes, speakers and dac are my mid life crisis/covid buys.

If only the mj2 was in black… and it wasn’t with schiit now being repaired.
are the scary feet taming the 800s? I’ve not used them in some time, but if they can turn the bright down of the hd800s… then hopefully the focals too.


----------



## billerb1

Zurv said:


> Oh, it is ez to be a dummy and spend money. My crazy move was the speakers.. and.. I’m done.
> i don’t have a car… so tubes, speakers and dac are my mid life crisis/covid buys.
> 
> If only the mj2 was in black… and it wasn’t with schiit now being repaired.
> are the scary feet taming the 800s? I’ve not used them in some time, but if they can turn the bright down of the hd800s… then hopefully the focals too.


Couple things...#1:  your WA33 is worth more than my car; and #2:  you thought those 800S's were screetchy BEFORE the Scary Feet.  Ha !!!  For_ your_ sake, let me take those bad boys off your hands.


----------



## jonathan c

Zurv said:


> Oh, it is ez to be a dummy and spend money.


The genius lies in spending other people’s money 🤑👹…


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> Couple things...#1:  your WA33 is worth more than my car; and #2:  you thought those 800S's were screetchy BEFORE the Scary Feet.  Ha !!!  For_ your_ sake, let me take those bad boys off your hands.


“ #1b:  the WA33 has more horsepower than my car…”


----------



## Guidostrunk

Zurv said:


> FU.. all of u..
> I don't even plan to ever use the mj2 again. (the PL and woo are my mains..)
> but some how this scary feet MADE me..
> so.. fine.. 1957 3-mica pair ordered!
> ...


Do you have adapters to use the Footscray?


----------



## M-83

bcowen said:


> W
> 
> Well, here's my 2nd rate, 2nd tier O-getters.  I feel like I'm in the cheap seats.  Shrug.  They test very nicely...maybe they _won't_ suck compared to the D-getters.  Thanks for raining on my parade, @TK16 .
> 
> No, I haven't listened to them yet.  I'll give 'em 25 hours before first listen, as improvements from there should be incremental rather than substantial.


Gorgeous pic - love that the tube is glowing in the red hue


----------



## M-83

My spare Footscray's are on the way


----------



## G0rt

bcowen said:


> W
> 
> Well, here's my 2nd rate, 2nd tier O-getters.  I feel like I'm in the cheap seats.  Shrug.  They test very nicely...maybe they _won't_ suck compared to the D-getters.  Thanks for raining on my parade, @TK16 .
> 
> No, I haven't listened to them yet.  I'll give 'em 25 hours before first listen, as improvements from there should be incremental rather than substantial.


Cheap seats at the Olympics...


----------



## jonathan c

Something to appreciate on our fortunate ownership of Footscrays…


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> Something to appreciate on our fortunate ownership of Footscrays…


Cool info and back story!  Thanks for sharing and just goes to show how lucky we are to own these amazingly rare tubes.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Cool info and back story!  Thanks for sharing and just goes to show how lucky we are to own these amazingly rare tubes.


Ain't that the truth. We may never see them again. 😞


----------



## Rowethren (Jun 23, 2021)

I just hope my D getter Footscrays last a long time as I suspect a backup will be impossible to obtain.

Does make me think hard about getting a pair of halo getter Footscrays but I really can't afford them right now...


----------



## jonathan c

Rowethren said:


> I just hope my D getter Footscrays last a long time as I suspect a backup will be impossible to obtain.
> 
> Does make me think hard about getting a pair of halo getter Footscrays but I really can't afford them right now...


Makes the Brimar CV455 KB/FB square getter an always sensible “second string” - nothing second string about its sound, though!


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> Makes the Brimar CV455 KB/FB square getter an always sensible “second string” - nothing second string about its sound, though!


Man, you just reminded me.   I am 2 weeks in and still waiting for my CV455.  I hope to hear one some day soon. . .


----------



## billerb1 (Jun 23, 2021)

Couldn't help myself and snuck in 2 hours early this morning on the square getters...after 30 hours of burn-in.  As good as they sounded out of the box, their evolution in those 30 hours was remarkable.  These things are masters of nuance but also can deliver the power like no other.  The soundstage they create is so sophisticated, airy and beautiful it is truly impossible to describe.  Timbre is incredibly real and "weighty".  These Footscrays don't just uncover details in the music you've never heard before...I think they actually add what _should_ be there.  I'm almost serious.
Enjoy !!!
(Ordered a backup pair of the O getters.  I'm not as stupid as I look.)

Edit:  It's that whole "rediscover your entire music library" thing.  I love it when that happens !!!  Each song is a voyage into uncharted waters.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 23, 2021)

billerb1 said:


> Couldn't help myself and snuck in 2 hours early this morning on the square getters...after 30 hours of burn-in.  As good as they sounded out of the box, their evolution in those 30 hours was remarkable.  These things are masters of nuance but also can deliver the power like no other.  The soundstage they create is so sophisticated, airy and beautiful it is truly impossible to describe.  Timbre is incredibly real.  These Footscrays don't just uncover details in the music you've never heard before...I think they are actually adding what _should_ be there.  I'm almost serious.
> Enjoy !!!
> (Ordered a backup pair of the O getters.  I'm not as stupid as I look.)


Yes sir, "masters of nuance" yet still powerful is a great way to put it!  The only other tube I have heard that can do what the Footscray's do, is the Hamburg 6201 Pinched Waist Triple Mica D Getter.  With these 2 tubes, I want for nothing and continue to be blown away every time I listen.


----------



## TK16

Just got a reply from Sanjiv about the square getter Footscray CV4033. He has a handful left but not selling anymore until he finds more. He said he knows someone who is willing to sell them but at $150 a tube. Not paying that kind of $. In case anyone might be interested shoot him a PM.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Just got a reply from Sanjiv about the square getter Footscray CV4033. He has a handful left but not selling anymore until he finds more. He said he knows someone who is willing to sell them but at $150 a tube. Not paying that kind of $. In case anyone might be interested shoot him a PM.


These are actually worth $150 a tube in my opinion, and that's a great opportunity for someone willing to fork out the cash.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> These are actually worth $150 a tube in my opinion, and that's a great opportunity for someone willing to fork out the cash.


He said they were Feb 57 coded but dunno what the actual factory code is 56 or early 57ish.


----------



## jonathan c

Here are comments by Sanjiv Malik of Pulse Engineering on tube getter shape. Note, his background is extensive.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 23, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Here are comments by Sanjiv Malik of Pulse Engineering on tube getter shape. Note, his background is extensive.


Love it!  That's pretty much the same as Keith's theory and what I have thought, and it makes since to me.  I like the shoe analogy!  Sanjiv is such a nice guy by the way and we are lucky to be dealing with him.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Love it!  That's pretty much the same as Keith's theory and what I have thought, as it makes since to me.  I like the shoe analogy!


Which raises the question: do the Footscrays kick arse with shoes on or barefoot?…


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> Which raises the question: do the Footscrays kick arse with shoes on or barefoot?…


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Which raises the question: do the Footscrays kick arse with shoes on or barefoot?…


😂😂😂


----------



## billerb1

Wes S said:


> Love it!  That's pretty much the same as Keith's theory and what I have thought, and it makes since to me.  I like the shoe analogy!  Sanjiv is such a nice guy by the way and we are lucky to be dealing with him.


+1.  Great guy to have in your corner.


----------



## Zurv (Jun 23, 2021)

TK16 said:


> Just got a reply from Sanjiv about the square getter Footscray CV4033. He has a handful left but not selling anymore until he finds more. He said he knows someone who is willing to sell them but at $150 a tube. Not paying that kind of $. In case anyone might be interested shoot him a PM.


Strange logic as they already sell tubes that cost over $200.

Are most of these tubes coming from India? That is where both my orders are shipping from. (India -> Italy -> US  )


----------



## Guidostrunk

Just got home from work and about to jam. Approaching the 24 hour mark. I'll chime in , in a few. I'm gonna do some A/B this evening. I know it's still early with the squares but I should be able to get a feel.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Just got home from work and about to jam. Approaching the 24 hour mark. I'll chime in , in a few. I'm gonna do some A/B this evening. I know it's still early with the squares but I should be able to get a feel.


I am jealous!  I still have an hour to go, before I can start jamming.  I am looking forward to more of your thoughts on the two, and I am only at the 10 hour mark, but I plan to add quite a few more hours tonight.


----------



## jonathan c

It is time to get a new wallet when your current wallet talks back about Footscrays:


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> It is time to get a new wallet when your current wallet talks back about Footscrays:


They don't know what they are missing!  I always have room for squares.


----------



## billerb1

Always figured Mobley for an SS guy....


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> Always figured Mobley for an SS guy....


I think that he would have been a “tuber”…so mellifluous on tenor sax. Heck, he was in Miles’ band during the Friday Night / Saturday Night Live at the Blackhawk [S.F.]. I doubt that Miles would have tolerated a transistor…


----------



## billerb1 (Jun 23, 2021)

Points well-taken and noted J.

(Edit:  By the way, what does mellifluous mean ???)


----------



## M-83

Loving Paul Simon's Concert in the Park (1991) - https://www.paulsimon.com/music/paul-simons-concert-park-august-15-1991/

Feels like I'm right there 

This is one of my all time favourite albums, along with the Graceland album.


----------



## M-83

I just wanna share this one track...it's a cover of a Sia song.  Sounds truly holographic with the Footscray.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Completely paralyzed by this whole album right now 😂 
One of my favourites off it.


----------



## M-83

I love this hobby.  So wholesome!


----------



## M-83

Guidostrunk said:


> Completely paralyzed by this whole album right now 😂
> One of my favourites off it.



That's a cool track.  Very well done.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 23, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Completely paralyzed by this whole album right now 😂
> One of my favourites off it.



Dude!  I have started every session for the past year, with this song!  Familiarity, is the next song I play from the same album.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 23, 2021)

Here is another one of my favs, and the entire album is amazing.  These songs show off what the Footscray can do no doubt!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Dude!  I start every session with this song!  Familiarity, is the next song I play from the same album.


It's a fantastic album! I'm a big fan of Chris Thile. I liked him when he played with another band I can't get enough of. Vulfpeck


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> It's a fantastic album! I'm a big fan of Chris Thile. I liked him when he played with another band I can't get enough of. Vulfpeck



Yes sir!  I have been following him around as well.  I love that guy, and his personality and the emotion he puts into his playing is awesome!  A truly great guy, and stellar musician.


----------



## billerb1 (Jun 23, 2021)

deleted


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> deleted


"I saw what you deleted last summer!" 😄


----------



## billerb1

The senior moments are becoming my norm.  Is that good?


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> The senior moments are becoming my norm.  Is that good?


Dunno didn't see what you actually posted. 😄


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> I am jealous!  I still have an hour to go, before I can start jamming.  I am looking forward to more of your thoughts on the two, and I am only at the 10 hour mark, but I plan to add quite a few more hours tonight.


Dang young'uns.  I've still got about 20 hours left to hit 25 which is the bare minimum before first listen.  Yes, I'm anal.


----------



## billerb1

I've already forgotten what we're talking about.


----------



## bcowen

billerb1 said:


> The senior moments are becoming my norm.  Is that good?


Probably not.  But it's normal.


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> Dang young'uns.  I've still got about 20 hours left to hit 25 which is the bare minimum before first listen.  Yes, I'm anal.


I like to hear the changes, so I start at 0.


----------



## Zurv

billerb1 said:


> Speaking of FU's...FU !!!  You've got a WA33.  You're my freaking hero for life.  Send me the pair of Footscrays you just bought for my pitiful little WA2.  I can't
> afford my own back-up pair.


You know what sir. You are right. What the hell. Why would someone spend that much on low tech "simple" tech. That would also force me to spend $4k-$5k more on replacing tubes. ("We could have redone the bathroom!" <-- yells my wife)
the WA33 was on order and I just cancelled it.
It was just silly. Why do i need so many headphone amps in my 2 room apt.
I already have the PrimaLuna Evo 400 intergrated, the SPL Phonitor x and the MJ2.  (maybe i'll pick up the wa22... i like the 6sn7 sound too.)

Thanks for saving me money. If only you where here to stop the speakers and dac 

but.. now I have 2 extra foot 3-mica 1957s ... i guess backup?


----------



## jonathan c

Zurv said:


> Why do i need so many headphone amps in my 2 room apt? I already have the PrimaLuna Evo 400 integrated, the SPL Phonitor x and the MJ2.


Variety: spice of life; sonic flavours: for different listening moods; besides, how do you A/B headphone amps with only one? 😵‍💫


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Completely paralyzed by this whole album right now 😂
> One of my favourites off it.



Not mesmerised?…


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> I've already forgotten what we're talking about.


“I can’t remember what I forgot”…🙄


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> I like to hear the changes, so I start at 0.


I like to anticipate, so I start at -5…


----------



## TK16

Got a pair of the square getter CV4033 Footscrays coming my way. Big FU for posting opinions on the sound signature. 🙃


----------



## Rowethren

Guidostrunk said:


> Completely paralyzed by this whole album right now 😂
> One of my favourites off it.



I absolutely love that album, I am a real sucker for a double base especially as the Gungnir Multibit/Mjolnir 2 and Verite Closed reproduces them so spectacularly.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Alright so here's where I'm at between the □ and the ○ getters. 

After switching back and forth in 30 minute intervals , for me the □ is the better tube by a small margin. 

The □ is an airier tube with more detail retrieval. A better sense of depth in the stage. The □ just carves out the picture a little more. 

For an example. When I switch to the ○ it feels like the band is playing in the studio with sound panels on the walls. A little less reverb trails and that micro and macro detail that comes with being at a live venue. 
The □ has better balance in the FR. Where as the ○ may seem more bass heavy due to that little lacking in air and depth. Both nail the sense of realism. 

We're splitting hairs here though folks. When I switch to the ○'s, I'm still captivated by what I'm hearing a disappear in the music. When the □'s die there will be no heartbreak lol.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The sleep deprivation is real!
Alarm goes off in 3 hours. 😂

With everything said above. Take into consideration I'm only 30 hours into the □ so it's still possible for more changes. I'll do the next A/B Friday night and see where we're at


----------



## Guidostrunk

Rowethren said:


> I absolutely love that album, I am a real sucker for a double base especially as the Gungnir Multibit/Mjolnir 2 and Verite Closed reproduces them so spectacularly.


This album is great too. I've been listening to this one for years.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> This album is great too. I've been listening to this one for years.



Me too.  Very well recorded!


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> This album is great too. I've been listening to this one for years.



That's all good Sammy.
And thanks for the square getter vs O getter mini-shootout.  I'm just starting to hear the squares in their full regalia...my O's should be here next week.  
We tend to hear and listen for the same things typically.  We'll see how this one goes when I get the O's.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Alright so here's where I'm at between the □ and the ○ getters.
> 
> After switching back and forth in 30 minute intervals , for me the □ is the better tube by a small margin.
> 
> ...


That is really great to hear!  I put 12 more hours on my Square last night, and it's coming along nicely.  I have to say, the extra bit of air, detail and clarity is exactly what I was hoping for.  Speaking of detail and clarity, the Hamburg 6201 PWTMDG had a slight edge over the O Getter Footscray, and it seems the Square is right there with it.    Honestly, with these 2 tubes I am completely blown away.  They do completely different soundstage presentations, but both are "Master's of Nuance", have their own unique strengths, and put me "There".  I plan to elaborate more on the differences once my Square Getter Footscray is completely burned in, and as it stands right now, Hamburg 6201 PWTMDG = Footscray CV4033 TMSG.


----------



## TK16

Square Getters already shipped less than 12 hours after purchase. Great customer service!


----------



## Rowethren

Sanjiv is great! The tubes he sells are great! Life is great!


----------



## Wes S

Rowethren said:


> Sanjiv is great! The tubes he sells are great! Life is great!


Amen to that!


----------



## G0rt

Rowethren said:


> Sanjiv is great! The tubes he sells are great! Life is great!


'You are great, I am great.' - Dr. Richard Daystrom


----------



## TK16

Anymore opinions about the square getter vs O getters? People who have made opinions known, I don't really trust! 😂


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> Anymore opinions about the square getter vs O getters? People who have made opinions known, I don't really trust! 😂


“Everyone is entitled to _my_ opinion”  -  jonathan c


----------



## billerb1

I've only heard the square ones and I'm sure they're the best.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> Anymore opinions about the square getter vs O getters? People who have made opinions known, I don't really trust! 😂


🤣🤣🤣


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> I've only heard the square ones and I'm sure they're the best.


Having just heard the O getters and I'm sure that is correct.


----------



## jonathan c

Rowethren said:


> Sanjiv is great! The tubes he sells are great! Life is great!


Everything is great, not GE !! (Goddam Execrable / Giant Exception / …)


----------



## jonathan c

Rowethren said:


> Sanjiv is great! The tubes he sells are great! Life is great!


Hey, let’s ask @ksorota: is gin & absinthe great?


----------



## Rowethren

billerb1 said:


> I've only heard the square ones and I'm sure they're the best.


I couldn't agree more


----------



## ksorota

jonathan c said:


> Hey, let’s ask @ksorota: is gin & absinthe great?


Couldnt tell you, the bottles empty and I dont remember drinking it! 

actually, its really good.  It is more Gin than Absinthe, which is a good thing and just creates a very unique taste.  The typical floral Gin flavor with a bit more bitterness or mint flavor than you would expect.  basically, a hint of absinthe lingers on the pallet making coaxing you to taste more and more of it.  

I will probably pick up another botttle.  I think I only have one pour left


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> Couldnt tell you, the bottles empty and I dont remember drinking it!
> 
> actually, its really good.  It is more Gin than Absinthe, which is a good thing and just creates a very unique taste.  The typical floral Gin flavor with a bit more bitterness or mint flavor than you would expect.  basically, a hint of absinthe lingers on the pallet making coaxing you to taste more and more of it.
> 
> I will probably pick up another botttle.  I think I only have one pour left


I'm gonna have to pick some up myself and give it a whirl 😂


----------



## G0rt

No squares here, but I'm likey the July halos, especially that they've settled some at 20+ hours. Squares later, maybe.

At about 15 hours, the focus snapped in and they lost a just perceptible sense of mids compression, but since then they've gained a little warmth without losing the spaciousness and balance all the CV4033 have in spades.

I think the Rochesters have a bigger bottom, but mine have some hundreds of hours at least, and I suspect they may all mellow somewhat with service. Not a bad thing.

Just aside, I've rolled HD800, LCD3f, Elex, RS1e, DT1990 & others, balanced, SE, low and high gain and all are bigly fine.

ATM, R70x and FourPlay, with an Akiyoshi cabernet, and I hear All the notes.


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> “Everyone is entitled to _my_ opinion”  -  jonathan c


🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## M-83

Have a listen to this EDM track guys.  It's stunning:


----------



## TK16

M-83 said:


> Have a listen to this EDM track guys.  It's stunning:



EDM? Anything like SRV or BTO? 😃


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> EDM? Anything like SRV or BTO? 😃


Or ELO?


----------



## Wes S (Jun 24, 2021)

This song sounds so freakin lifelike, it really did make me cry!   Recording quality on this one is insanely good!


----------



## Wes S

A couple fun Electronica ones.  These 2 will take you on a ride, and I highly recommend giving them a listen.


----------



## M-83

TK16 said:


> EDM? Anything like SRV or BTO? 😃


Equally as good, just a little different lol


----------



## M-83

Wes S said:


> A couple fun Electronica ones.  These 2 will take you on a ride, and I highly recommend giving them a listen.


First track is cool, love the way it just builds up and up, adding layers.

 The second track is brilliantly complex and the name is perfect for it.  The sudden change half way through is awesome.


----------



## M-83

Wes S said:


> Or ELO?


M83


----------



## M-83

Give this a whirl, it's a beautiful track that's too short for my liking lol:


----------



## M-83

M-83 said:


> Give this a whirl, it's a beautiful track that's too short for my liking lol:


The entire album is world class.


----------



## Wes S

M-83 said:


> First track is cool, love the way it just builds up and up, adding layers.
> 
> The second track is brilliantly complex and the name is perfect for it.  The sudden change half way through is awesome.


Yes sir!  I had a feeling you were going to like those.


----------



## Wes S

M-83 said:


> The entire album is world class.


I will check it out tonight, and can't wait.


----------



## M-83

Wes S said:


> Yes sir!  I had a feeling you were going to like those.


Thx for sharing them.


----------



## M-83

Wes S said:


> I will check it out tonight, and can't wait.


Awesome hope you enjoy   

Also give their album called "Symphonia" a listen.  Their live recordings are immense.


----------



## Wes S

M-83 said:


> Awesome hope you enjoy
> 
> Also give their album called "Symphonia" a listen.  Their live recordings are immense.


Will do bro.  Thanks for sharing too!


----------



## M-83 (Jun 24, 2021)

Can anyone please help with some suggestions on some suitable planar HPs that will be great for Electronica, EDM/dance/trance, and film OSTs?  I also listen to some pop and acoustic/rock.

I tried a ZMF VC recently, and I didn't end up buying because it just didn't float my boat - even though I recognise it's high quality.

I'm gonna keep my Alpha Primes as a reference and because they have a special place in my heart lol.

I am looking up Kennerton, LSA, and Ronnon Audio as options.  I think I'll stick with planar for a while as I explore different HP models, then perhaps will venture back to dynas at a later point in time.

Musicality is important, as is linear but low reach bass.  I dont like fatiguing bright treble.

Synergy needs to be good with Gumby & MJ2 

Edit:  I keep coming across comments about "poorly performing , cheap planars".  I want to avoid anything like that.


----------



## M-83

Last song post of the evening (I promise).  One of my favourite pop songs.  Sounds epic on my rig:


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Can anyone please help with some suggestions on some suitable planar HPs that will be great for Electronica, EDM/dance/trance, and film OSTs?  I also listen to some pop and acoustic/rock.
> 
> I tried a ZMF VC recently, and I didn't end up buying because it just didn't float my boat - even though I recognise it's high quality.
> 
> ...


Audeze LCD-X. I have owned these for 5+ years. They match very well to Woo WA6, to Mjolnir II, to Violectric V280, and to GSX-Mini. Did you mean Rosson Audio RAD-0? Wonderful sound (best planar) but mercilessly uncomfortable: I tried four different homemade modifications to the headband, surrendered, then sold. Beware!


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> Audeze LCD-X. I have owned these for 5+ years. They match very well to Woo WA6, to Mjolnir II, to Violectric V280, and to GSX-Mini. Did you mean Rosson Audio RAD-0? Wonderful sound (best planar) but mercilessly uncomfortable: I tried four different homemade modifications to the headband, surrendered, then sold. Beware!


Thanks Jonathan, the LCD-X is just about the only Audeze I've not read up on.  Interesting that you mention the V280... I'd love to give a V281 a try one day.

Yep the Rad-0 is what I had been considering.  However that does not bode well comfort wise.  My primes are by far and away the most comfy HPs I've ever tried - I can wear them for hours at a time and barely notice they are there.


----------



## jonathan c




----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


>


I've been waiting for those 😁


----------



## TK16

Very highly recommended.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Amper...8-423e-4547-858f-9b1ac703543d&redirect=mobile


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


>


Love it.


----------



## M-83

TK16 said:


> Very highly recommended.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Amper...8-423e-4547-858f-9b1ac703543d&redirect=mobile


I've been considering a pair of these but I'm in no hurry to stop using the Footscray lol.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Got a pair of the square getter CV4033 Footscrays coming my way. Big FU for posting opinions on the sound signature. 🙃


Hoarder.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Hoarder.


I got the O getter at number 3 with the 7316 LP and Hamburg ECC82 in the top 2 slots and looking for a new number 1 or 2 in the square getter. A hoarder yes but not quite the hoarder as you though. 😄


----------



## M-83

@jonathan c  I've just ordered an LCD-X 2021 creators pack from Amazon UK

Audeze LCD-X Over Ear Open Back Headphone new 2021 version Creator Package with carry case https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08ZR34S9T/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_THXS5HJX2042MBM7XFQW

Thought I'd give it a go as Amazon are pretty good with returns just in case.


----------



## TK16

M-83 said:


> @jonathan c  I've just ordered an LCD-X 2021 creators pack from Amazon UK
> 
> Audeze LCD-X Over Ear Open Back Headphone new 2021 version Creator Package with carry case https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08ZR34S9T/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_THXS5HJX2042MBM7XFQW
> 
> Thought I'd give it a go as Amazon are pretty good with returns just in case.


Got the same Gumby, MJ2 and LCD X combo as well. Great synergy there. Also have an LCD2C as well. You'll enjoy them. Fantastic with those 7316 I posted as well.


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> Got the same Gumby, MJ2 and LCD X combo as well. Great synergy there. Also have an LCD2C as well. You'll enjoy them. Fantastic with those 7316 I posted as well.


One item on my to/do list is to hear/buy the ‘updated’ LCD-X….


----------



## bcowen

M-83 said:


> @jonathan c  I've just ordered an LCD-X 2021 creators pack from Amazon UK
> 
> Audeze LCD-X Over Ear Open Back Headphone new 2021 version Creator Package with carry case https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08ZR34S9T/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_THXS5HJX2042MBM7XFQW
> 
> Thought I'd give it a go as Amazon are pretty good with returns just in case.


Amazon is a great way to go if they have the 'phones you want.  When I first got into headphones a few years ago, I bought my first and second pairs on Amazon.  First pair sucked, and the second pair was better but still a far cry from what I wanted. Return and refund was painless, so glad I went that way.


----------



## Guidostrunk

They're starting to pull away 😂


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> They're starting to pull away 😂


You mean the square getter is pulling away with the O getter?


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> They're starting to pull away 😂



"I used to like you," said the guy with the 2nd rate O getters....


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> "I used to like you," said the guy with the 2nd rate O getters....


😂😂😂


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Last song post of the evening (I promise).  One of my favourite pop songs.  Sounds epic on my rig:



One outstanding aspect (of many) regarding the Footscray CV4033 is its rendition of female vocals - Madonna / Saran Vaughan / Stephanie Mills / Aretha / Ella come through in complete realism and wringing emotion. Probably audio’s toughest test. Get this right and the rest will follow suit…


----------



## ksorota

Halfway to my fundraising goal...7 tubes left at the store.  See if I can make it!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Yeah the squares are numbero uno! Absolutely incredible what I'm hearing


----------



## billerb1 (Jun 25, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> One outstanding aspect (of many) regarding the Footscray CV4033 is its rendition of female vocals - Madonna / Saran Vaughan / Stephanie Mills / Aretha / Ella come through in complete realism and wringing emotion. Probably audio’s toughest test. Get this right and the rest will follow suit…


Have the full A Team mix of tubes back in the WA2 and am giving the Squares my full attention after 60 hours of burn-in.  They really are something special.  BIG SOUND, beautifully fat, juicy notes and a MAJESTIC feel to their presentation.  They put you essentially in the recording studio or live venue.  Breathtaking at times.

Edit:  And +1 on the vocals.  The absolute best I've ever heard.
         ...and then there's the detail retrieval...never sterile, always musical.  I just listened to the Squares present Steve Gadd's legendary, seminal drumming on the song 'Aja' in a way I didn't think was possible.  There is SO MUCH that goes on in his playing I've never heard anything come close to slowing it down for inspection like this.  Amazing.  It was like I was behind the kit.


----------



## Rowethren

jonathan c said:


>


Great t-shirt, tempted to grab one for posterity. Only problem with that is the superior D/square getter Footscrays are from 1956


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> One outstanding aspect (of many) regarding the Footscray CV4033 is its rendition of female vocals - Madonna / Saran Vaughan / Stephanie Mills / Aretha / Ella come through in complete realism and wringing emotion. Probably audio’s toughest test. Get this right and the rest will follow suit…


I totally agree and this is my all-time favorite female vocal song.  If you want to shed some tears play this one with the Footscray and your best pair of cans.  The emotion and the way her vocals are portrayed are hypnotic.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 25, 2021)

billerb1 said:


> Have the full A Team mix of tubes back in the WA2 and am giving the Squares my full attention after 60 hours of burn-in.  They really are something special.  BIG SOUND, beautifully fat, juicy notes and a MAJESTIC feel to their presentation.  They put you essentially in the recording studio or live venue.  Breathtaking at times.
> 
> Edit:  And +1 on the vocals.  The absolute best I've ever heard.
> ...and then there's the detail retrieval...never sterile, always musical.  I just listened to the Squares present Steve Gadd's legendary, seminal drumming on the song 'Aja' in a way I didn't think was possible.  There is SO MUCH that goes on in his playing I've never heard anything come close to slowing it down for inspection like this.  Amazing.  It was like I was behind the kit.


The Square's love being with an "A Team mix"!  I have similar team work going on, and the Footscray really makes them all sing.  I think you will probably recognize the rectifier and with this combo the "thereness" is in full effect!    Took the day off, and already fired it up.  Let the fun begin. . .





Happy Friday my friends!


----------



## Wes S (Jun 25, 2021)

TK16 said:


> I got the O getter at number 3 with the 7316 LP and Hamburg ECC82 in the top 2 slots and looking for a new number 1 or 2 in the square getter. A hoarder yes but not quite the hoarder as you though. 😄


I am predicting some shuffling with the rankings after you get the square getter, and I bet it ends up as number 2.  However, I would not doubt if there is a new number 1.


----------



## billerb1

Wes S said:


> The Square's love being with an "A Team mix"!  I have similar team work going on, and the Footscray really makes them all sing.  I think you will probably recognize the rectifier and with this combo the "thereness" is in full effect!    Took the day off, and already fired it up.  Let the fun begin. . .
> 
> 
> 
> Happy Friday my friends!


GEC U709 - the Little King !!!


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I am predicting some shuffling with the rankings after you get the square getter, and I bet it ends up as number 2.  However, I would not doubt if there is a new number 1.


Was listening to PW Hamburg PCC88 1957 high testing pair in my LP. Only lasted a couple hours at most. Then replaced ECC82 56/57 45 degree D getter. I found a similar sound signature but the ECC82 was noticeably better in everything. Still got the Footscrays in the MJ2.


----------



## G0rt

A rare photograph of the _Brimar_ valve works on Crittall’s Corner, Footscray, Kent next to the Sidcup bypass.

Where our Footscrays came into the world.


----------



## Wes S

Put some more hours on the Squares all night and oh my word they are coming along nicely!  Jeff Buckley has never sounded better, and especially this track below.  Give this a listen and get ready for the 2:11 minute mark.


----------



## Wes S

Oh my, Rusted Root is sounding better than ever too!  I love this tube!    Talk about being "there", this track does it.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 25, 2021)

One of the biggest standout traits I am noticing today with the Footscray Square Getter, is how insanely quite this tube is.  The background is pitch black, and this is the quietest tube I have ever heard!   Also, my amp has never been so quiet.  This tube is so well built it and you can absolutely hear it.  @TK16 with what I am hearing today, l will really be surprised if the FSG does not become your number 1.


----------



## Wes S

billerb1 said:


> GEC U709 - the Little King !!!


Yes sir!  The Little King is such a perfect name.  I am so blown away with this rectifier paired with the FSG, that I just bought a backup.    One of them literally just popped up on Ebay today, and it's already paid for by me.  I now have backups for all my tubes in the "A Team" combo, and life is good and should be for a long while.


----------



## jonathan c

G0rt said:


> A rare photograph of the _Brimar_ valve works on Crittall’s Corner, Footscray, Kent next to the Sidcup bypass.
> 
> Where our Footscrays came into the world.


My annual pilgrimage will have to be to photographs…praying at ‘tubecca’…


----------



## M-83

I've finished work and have a week off now, but I'm too tired to be collating this evenings track listings.  I just need a chilled session with my rig and some quality music therapy lol.

So, I'll share just the one track tonight, here on my favourite head-fi thread


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> One of the biggest standout traits I am noticing today with the Footscray Square Getter, is how insanely quite this tube is.  The background is pitch black, and this is the quietest tube I have ever heard!   Also, my amp has never been so quiet.  This tube is so well built it and you can absolutely hear it.  @TK16 with what I am hearing today, l will really be surprised if the FSG does not become your number 1.


To me, that quietness translates directly to dynamic range and the instant onset of transients. These two attributes, I maintain, are the most important in music reproduction having “thereness” (wake up, Wes! your favourite term).


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> To me, that quietness translates directly to dynamic range and the instant onset of transients. These two attributes, I maintain, are the most important in music reproduction having “thereness” (wake up, Wes! your favourite term).


An interesting read.  I have a Feliks Echo here and a ZMF Atticus.  Will the "spare" Footscray tubes I have on order be the final link in the chain that could turn me into keeping Atticus I wonder?  Although regardless, the Feliks Echo is a really impressive little amp.  I have it near a PC and a router and there is no interference or hum.  It's a very quiet and black void that the music comes out of and it sounds great even with stock tubes.


----------



## Guidostrunk

M-83 said:


> An interesting read.  I have a Feliks Echo here and a ZMF Atticus.  Will the "spare" Footscray tubes I have on order be the final link in the chain that could turn me into keeping Atticus I wonder?  Although regardless, the Feliks Echo is a really impressive little amp.  I have it near a PC and a router and there is no interference or hum.  It's a very quiet and black void that the music comes out of and it sounds great even with stock tubes.


Replace your 6n6p with these early 60's box plate 6n6p Foton tubes. Adapters for Footscray and your Echo will love you. Lol.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tube-6N6P-...-/254887546773?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286


----------



## M-83

Guidostrunk said:


> Replace your 6n6p with these early 60's box plate 6n6p Foton tubes. Adapters for Footscray and your Echo will love you. Lol.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tube-6N6P-...-/254887546773?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286


Ok thanks for the heads up.

Any other HP recommendations for the Echo other than ZMF?


----------



## Guidostrunk

M-83 said:


> Ok thanks for the heads up.
> 
> Any other HP recommendations for the Echo other than ZMF?


I really don't know. ZMF, Beyer and Sennheiser have the impedance match for OTL. Maybe HD800s or Beyer T1? I wish Focal would have been designed with a higher impedance. Lol


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> Replace your 6n6p with these early 60's box plate 6n6p Foton tubes. Adapters for Footscray and your Echo will love you. Lol.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tube-6N6P-...-/254887546773?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286


Glad I bought a dozen of those a couple months ago in anticipation of Schiit's new amp (that hasn't been released yet).  Since you mentioned them here now, the prices on Ebay will double in the next week.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Glad I bought a dozen of those a couple months ago in anticipation of Schiit's new amp (that hasn't been released yet).  Since you mentioned them here now, the prices on Ebay will double in the next week.


Hoarder.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Hoarder.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


>


You try the Footscray yet? Or are you STILL burning them in?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> You try the Footscray yet? Or are you STILL burning them in?


Final cook tonight.  Listen tomorrow.  I am normally nowhere close to this patient...just long days at work this last week.  That, and being proud of myself for showing some patience.


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> Glad I bought a dozen of those a couple months ago in anticipation of Schiit's new amp (that hasn't been released yet).  Since you mentioned them here now, the prices on Ebay will double in the next week.


Probably 😂 I know they pay attention. The 75 SWPG silver shield went through the roof years ago.


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> Glad I bought a dozen of those a couple months ago in anticipation of Schiit's new amp (that hasn't been released yet).  Since you mentioned them here now, the prices on Ebay will double in the next week.


What amp are they going to be releasing bro?


----------



## ksorota

You guys are such a bad influence! 

In trying to find a WA3 I have been slowly being coaxed over to the WA2…all in the name of footscray😆

Might have to get one if those shirts.


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> Probably 😂 I know they pay attention. The 75 SWPG silver shield went through the roof years ago.


So did the ribbed plate 6N8S's.  Have no idea why.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Probably 😂 I know they pay attention. The 75 SWPG silver shield went through the roof years ago.


Hard to imagine those tubes were regarded so highly back then I didn't care for those much at all.


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> You guys are such a bad influence!
> 
> In trying to find a WA3 I have been slowly being coaxed over to the WA2…all in the name of footscray😆
> 
> Might have to get one if those shirts.


😂😂😂


----------



## ksorota

bcowen said:


> So did the ribbed plate 6N8S's.  Have no idea why.



Dude! 😮


----------



## ksorota

Guidostrunk said:


> What amp are they going to be releasing bro?



Starts with fj and has 10 tubes.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> So did the ribbed plate 6N8S's.  Have no idea why.


Definitely doesn't look like hoarding to me, buy another 30. Better safe than sorry bro. Lol


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> What amp are they going to be releasing bro?


The Folkvangr.  Not sure if it's been officially named, but that was the last title I heard for it.  Ten 6N6P's in total.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Definitely doesn't look like hoarding to me, buy another 30. Better safe than sorry bro. Lol


No such thing as too many backups.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> No such thing as too many backups.


I do have 4 sets of Heerlen ECC82 long plate D getters. 55, 56, 57, 58 years. That's my worst hoarding.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I do have 4 sets of Heerlen ECC82 long plate D getters. 55, 56, 57, 58 years. That's my worst hoarding.


Bragger.


----------



## billerb1

ksorota said:


> You guys are such a bad influence!
> 
> In trying to find a WA3 I have been slowly being coaxed over to the WA2…all in the name of footscray😆
> 
> Might have to get one if those shirts.


I loves me my WA2.  It's a lot like Mrs. Buttersworth...liquidy but thick and rich at the same time.


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> Starts with fj and has 10 tubes.


Oh wow. That's interesting. Is it an OTL?


----------



## Zurv

bcowen said:


> Glad I bought a dozen of those a couple months ago in anticipation of Schiit's new amp (that hasn't been released yet).  Since you mentioned them here now, the prices on Ebay will double in the next week.


What do we think they are releasing? Likely not a mj2 replacement as they said it didn't sell well.


----------



## ksorota

Guidostrunk said:


> Oh wow. That's interesting. Is it an OTL?



Claim is similar to valhalla topology so it could be so


----------



## ksorota

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...most-improbable-start-up.701900/post-16315305


----------



## Zurv (Jun 25, 2021)

Thanks for the link
so a 10 tube amp ~$1200-~$1500
oh.. i'm down with it... not sure what i'd do with it as i already have to many headphones amps and almost never use headphones.
I just midlife-crisis'd  myself with some speakers and a dac.
But there is always more crisis to deal with i guess...

https://www.h-ear.audio/2021/03/22/...-list-of-2021-products-going-into-production/


----------



## Guidostrunk

What a terrible Friday 😞
Just got home a little bit ago and finally get to jam. I'm over the 75 hour mark now and will report back if there's any changes or not since last night lol.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> What a terrible Friday 😞
> Just got home a little bit ago and finally get to jam. I'm over the 75 hour mark now and will report back if there's any changes or not since last night lol.


How terrible can it be when the wife Footscrays are waiting at home? 🤣


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> What a terrible Friday 😞
> Just got home a little bit ago and finally get to jam. I'm over the 75 hour mark now and will report back if there's any changes or not since last night lol.


Tell me there's some attributes the O's have that the McScary Squares don't.  I want to be happy about my O's showing up here in a few days Sammy.  Jeezuz give an old man a break !!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> How terrible can it be when the wife Footscrays are waiting at home? 🤣


😂😂😂


----------



## Guidostrunk

billerb1 said:


> Tell me there's some attributes the O's have that the McScary Squares don't.  I want to be happy about my O's showing up here in a few days Sammy.  Jeezuz give an old man a break !!!


I'll be rolling in the O's in 5 minutes. I do a quick swap when A/B'ing that literally takes 1 minute to do( don't kill me Keith 😂) and let the O's get to temperature which is usually good in 10 minutes. I'll report back.


----------



## Guidostrunk

So.... I put the O's in and did the 30 minute listening session and then swapped back in the □. 
The squares are absolutely on a different level! The dimensional space and pin point layered imaging is just ridiculous! The transparency is so spooky at times. It's the most real sounding experience I've had! Vocals can break the hardest person. They're so emotionally connecting and engaging. The □ just carves out every piece of the puzzle. 

Don't get me wrong. I love the O getter as well. If it's all that I have and have never heard the □.  I'd be an extremely happy camper!


----------



## Rowethren

M-83 said:


> Ok thanks for the heads up.
> 
> Any other HP recommendations for the Echo other than ZMF?


Someone mentioned Beyers and I just happen to have a pair of T5p Gen 2 for sale hint hunt nudge nudge.


----------



## M-83

@jonathan c Thanks for the LCD-X recommendation.  One song in and I already know I'm keeping them....


----------



## Wes S (Jun 26, 2021)

M-83 said:


> @jonathan c Thanks for the LCD-X recommendation.  One song in and I already know I'm keeping them....



Oh man!  You keep bringing back old memories with the songs you are posting.   I used to play their album Poem on repeat, when I was in college.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> How terrible can it be when the wife Footscrays are waiting at home? 🤣


I _didn't_ FTFY as it was perfect as-is and didn't need F'ing.


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> The squares are absolutely on a different level! The dimensional space and pin point layered imaging is just ridiculous! The transparency is so spooky at times. It's the most real sounding experience I've had! Vocals can break the hardest person. They're so emotionally connecting and engaging. The □ just carves out every piece of the puzzle.



Grrrrr.  Grumble.  Glad I haven't listened to my O's yet...I'll probably just chunk them in the trash and get some squares.


----------



## Rowethren

bcowen said:


> Grrrrr.  Grumble.  Glad I haven't listened to my O's yet...I'll probably just chunk them in the trash and get some squares.


They are all gone though... We bought them as fast as we could!


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Grrrrr.  Grumble.  Glad I haven't listened to my O's yet...I'll probably just chunk them in the trash and get some squares.


If you are interested in the square getter send a message to Sanjiv and ask him about them. That's how I got a pair after they sold out. Was way more expensive per tube. $150 vs $105. Been told they are worth it at that price.


----------



## bcowen

Rowethren said:


> They are all gone though... We bought them as fast as we could!


Grrrrrrr squared.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> If you are interested in the square getter send a message to Sanjiv and ask him about them. That's how I got a pair after they sold out. Was way more expensive per tube. $150 vs $105. Been told they are worth it at that price.


And just as soon as I do that, you'll find a 1955 Footscray with a foil getter that blows away the square getter.   I'm on to you guys now.


----------



## ksorota

bcowen said:


> And just as soon as I do that, you'll find a 1955 Footscray with a foil getter that blows away the square getter.   I'm on to you guys now.


😂 so true! 

Sanjiv is working everyone over in this thread! 🤣😜


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> And just as soon as I do that, you'll find a 1955 Footscray with a foil getter that blows away the square getter.   I'm on to you guys now.


That's what I'm afraid of.


----------



## TK16

https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use
This was what I was afraid of. Price increase. 😩


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> And just as soon as I do that, you'll find a 1955 Footscray with a foil getter that blows away the square getter.   I'm on to you guys now.


😂😂😂


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use
> This was what I was afraid of. Price increase. 😩


Ahh.  Supply and (the) demand (of this thread).   Time to email Sanjiv about those '55 foil getters.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Ahh.  Supply and (the) demand (of this thread).   Time to email Sanjiv about those '55 foil getters.


I place the blame on the guy who bought the square getter pair for $300 and 2 pair of the O getters.


----------



## JoeyB

I’m about to join that list, and I’ll have spent more on tubes and adapters than I did on the amp in a little over a month since I got it.


----------



## ksorota (Jun 26, 2021)

I have a set I could sell at original cost that I have never opened. If y’all are interested?

I’ll cover Shipping


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> So did the ribbed plate 6N8S's.  Have no idea why.


Stealth labeling by @bcowen?:  *F*ootscray *O*riginal *T*ube *O*fficially *N*ew…..


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> The Folkvangr.  Not sure if it's been officially named, but that was the last title I heard for it.  Ten 6N6P's in total.


Why would a headphone amplifier need so many tubes in its design…?


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> I do have 4 sets of Heerlen ECC82 long plate D getters. 55, 56, 57, 58 years. That's my worst hoarding.


4 sets for each year?😳😬


----------



## JoeyB

ksorota said:


> I have a set I could sell at original cost that I have never opened. If y’all are interested?
> 
> I’ll cover Shipping


of the squares?


----------



## TK16

JoeyB said:


> of the squares?


Yep just picked them up. Sorry bro.






Just kidding!😂


----------



## TK16

jonathan c said:


> 4 sets for each year?😳😬


No that would put me in the @bcowen level of hoarding.


----------



## Zurv

Anyone playing around with the Radiotechnique 1965 12au7 (to 6922)?


----------



## M-83

Wes S said:


> Oh man!  You keep bringing back old memories with the songs you are posting.   I used to play their album Poem on repeat, when I was in college.


Haha nice.  I love that track.  Great to take a trip down memory lane!  Their music is top class, I've also been listening since school/college.


----------



## M-83

Right, time to have a proper session with LCD-X, Gumby and MJ2 & the Footscrays


----------



## M-83

My one song post for the evening - I love this:


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Stealth labeling by @bcowen?:  *F*ootscray *O*riginal *T*ube *O*fficially *N*ew…..


LOL!  I wish.  I'd be wealthy.    

Unfortunately, the Footscray isn't a happy camper in the Incubus. At low to medium-low volume it sounds fine. But crank it up to (my) normal listening volume or higher, and the bass gets grainy at first and then starts to distort quite audibly.  Too much gain I think (the Incubus uses a 6SN7 natively).  Dangit.  Going to give it a spin in the Vali 2 later and see what happens...perhaps the hybrid architecture will be more accommodating.  Seems a bit over the top to put a $105 tube in a $150 amp, but then logic and tube rolling is an oxymoron.


----------



## M-83

bcowen said:


> LOL!  I wish.  I'd be wealthy.
> 
> Unfortunately, the Footscray isn't a happy camper in the Incubus. At low to medium-low volume it sounds fine. But crank it up to (my) normal listening volume or higher, and the bass gets grainy at first and then starts to distort quite audibly.  Too much gain I think (the Incubus uses a 6SN7 natively).  Dangit.  Going to give it a spin in the Vali 2 later and see what happens...perhaps the hybrid architecture will be more accommodating.  Seems a bit over the top to put a $105 tube in a $150 amp, but then logic and tube rolling is an oxymoron.


Shame it didn't work in the Incubus.  Interested to hear how you get on with the Footscray in Vali 2 though.


----------



## bcowen

M-83 said:


> Shame it didn't work in the Incubus.  Interested to hear how you get on with the Footscray in Vali 2 though.


Yeah, I'm bummed.  Maybe it's the O getter.  Yeah, that's probably it.   

This will motivate me to get the 'Voice out of the operating room.  Previously it was the Darkvoice, but (hopefully) a couple hundred $$ in parts and chassis extension will make it un-Dark and semi-worthy.  Or maybe I'll blow it up.  Either way is an improvement over stock.


----------



## JoeyB

Had to do it. I blame Sam 😂. Couldn’t pass when sanjiv said it was “last” pair. Although he did say he was trying to get more


----------



## TK16

JoeyB said:


> Had to do it. I blame Sam 😂. Couldn’t pass when sanjiv said it was “last” pair. Although he did say he was trying to get more


Last pair? Should of kept my mouth shut! 🤣


----------



## billerb1

bcowen said:


> LOL!  I wish.  I'd be wealthy.
> 
> Unfortunately, the Footscray isn't a happy camper in the Incubus. At low to medium-low volume it sounds fine. But crank it up to (my) normal listening volume or higher, and the bass gets grainy at first and then starts to distort quite audibly.  Too much gain I think (the Incubus uses a 6SN7 natively).  Dangit.  Going to give it a spin in the Vali 2 later and see what happens...perhaps the hybrid architecture will be more accommodating.  Seems a bit over the top to put a $105 tube in a $150 amp, but then logic and tube rolling is an oxymoron.


Interesting.  I've experienced a couple of incidents of distortion and unexplained volume inconsistencies myself on the WA2.  I'm not panicking yet but I am keeping an eye on it.


----------



## bcowen

billerb1 said:


> Interesting.  I've experienced a couple of incidents of distortion and unexplained volume inconsistencies myself on the WA2.  I'm not panicking yet but I am keeping an eye on it.


You're closer gain-wise with the WA2's native 6922 than I am with the 6SN7.  Hopefully you'll be OK, but I guess a lot depends on the circuit as well.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Why would a headphone amplifier need so many tubes in its design…?


It uses two 6N1P's as input tubes.  That pretty much explains it.


----------



## Guidostrunk

JoeyB said:


> Had to do it. I blame Sam 😂. Couldn’t pass when sanjiv said it was “last” pair. Although he did say he was trying to get more


😂😂😂


----------



## G0rt

Schiit amps with tube Vas are what was once understood to be 'well designed', meaning done in such a way as to minimize the effects of tube variances.

This has disappointed some who expect more 'tubeyness' from their tube gear, meaning, really, exposing tube variances.

At my age, I wonder whether I might even discern the finer qualities of squares. Doesn't mean I don't want some, just sayin'.

But I will say, too, that the halos have an edge in clarity WRT the later Rochesters, a quality I CAN discern, and which I might attribute to superior linearity in the MJ2 circuit.


----------



## bcowen (Jun 26, 2021)

Definitely a gain mismatch between the Footscray and the Incubus.  Stuck in this Frenchie 12AU7 and no distortion problems at all. Too bad I didn't care for their sound in the Cary gear I bought them for 20 years ago, and holy cow....don't much care for them in the Incubus either.   Exquisite treble detail and extension without being edgy or fatiguing, but _extremely_ mid-forward and lacking even a semblance of weight in the bass. Perhaps a nice match for my son's Beats? 

Does this mean I need to spend $200 a pop on the Footscray 12AU7's?  Someone _*please*_ argue with me.


----------



## Zurv (Jun 26, 2021)

bcowen said:


> Does this mean I need to spend $200 a pop on the Footscray 12AU7's?  Someone _*please*_ argue with me.




I would really like it if you didn't.. as i should have two of them these week.. and yeah.. what if they are really good? I'll need to buy more as backup? the PL does have 6 12au7 slots too...

(the logo on them look cool hella cool.. )


----------



## bcowen

Zurv said:


> I would really like it if you didn't.. as i should have two of them these week.. and yeah.. what if they are really good? I'll need to buy more as backup? the PL does have 6 12au7 slots too...
> 
> (the logo on them look cool hella cool.. )


That means you need 18:  6 to play, 6 as backups, and 6 as backups for the backups.  That's only $3600 (plus shipping).  No biggie.


----------



## JoeyB

Wow I guess I really got the last pair and I’m not only one who wanted them! Now I don’t feel so bad for buying them lol


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> I’ve experienced a couple of incidents of distortion and unexplained volume inconsistencies myself on the WA2.  I'm not panicking yet but I am keeping an eye on it.


I have not had any such issues using the Brimar CV4033 KB/FB in the WA3 or in the WA6. Might the Footscrays be picking up and passing through ‘tape saturation’ and volume anomalies from the recordings themselves?


----------



## billerb1

jonathan c said:


> I have not had any such issues using the Brimar CV4033 KB/FB in the WA3 or in the WA6. Might the Footscrays be picking up and passing through ‘tape saturation’ and volume anomalies from the recordings themselves?


That's good to know on your two Woos.  Wasn't able to listen today.  I'll get back into the Footscrays Sunday and report back.


----------



## Rowethren

Goodbye Square Getter Footscrays, you will be missed, gone but not forgotten! 

Still at least the important people managed to snag them! I wonder if and when we will ever see them again. I just really hope my pair last a long long time!


----------



## Wes S (Jun 27, 2021)

Well. . .I am at 70 hours on the Square Getter Footscray, and I can honestly say I have a new number 1.  The SGF is just flat out insanity at it's finest!  The transparency and holographic stage are on another level, and the SGF has surpassed the O Getter and the Hamburg 6201 PWTMDG, by quite a large margin.

New top 5 rankings -  The gap between 1 and 2 is on purpose.  

1.  Footscray Square Getter CV4033 56'


2.  Hamburg 6201 PW Triple Mica D Getter 56'
3.  Footscray O Getter CV4033 57'
4.  Raytheon 7730 Long Plate Angled Square Getter
5.  Hamburg ECC82 Long Plate Foil D Getter 54'

It's 3am and the Square Getter is already fired up. Let today's fun begin!  

What an honor it is to own these amazing tubes!


----------



## Wes S

Rowethren said:


> Goodbye Square Getter Footscrays, you will be missed, gone but not forgotten!
> 
> Still at least the important people managed to snag them! I wonder if and when we will ever see them again. I just really hope my pair last a long long time!


It was actually your picture of the Square's that started all the madness, so thanks for sharing that pic brother.  I sure am glad I jumped on them while I had a chance!


----------



## Rowethren

Wes S said:


> It was actually your picture of the Square's that started all the madness, so thanks for sharing that pic brother.  I sure am glad I jumped on them while I had a chance!


So what you are telling me is it is all my own fault I can never buy a spare set... 

That will teach me to share stuff with the group


----------



## Guidostrunk

Rowethren said:


> So what you are telling me is it is all my own fault I can never buy a spare set...
> 
> That will teach me to share stuff with the group


😂


----------



## bcowen

Rowethren said:


> So what you are telling me is it is all my own fault I can never buy a spare set...
> 
> That will teach me to share stuff with the group


Stash first, share later. 

Not that *I* would ever do that, of course.


----------



## bcowen

Rowethren said:


> Still at least the important people *whose amp(s) can use them* managed to snag them! I wonder if and when we will ever see them again. I just really hope my pair last a long long time!


Here...FTFY.


----------



## TK16

My square getters are in Tennessee already looking for Elvis.


----------



## Rowethren

bcowen said:


> Here...FTFY.


Out of curiosity did you actually ever own a Mjolnir 2? Or do you come here just to sait your tube addiction?  


On a different note I still want someone to do the mod for me. I wonder if the UK dealer would be interested as I know he does do some repairs personally and only sends the difficult things back to Schiit.


----------



## bcowen

Rowethren said:


> Out of curiosity did you actually ever own a Mjolnir 2? Or do you come here just to sait your tube addiction?


No, I've never owned an MJ2.  Tube discussions just seem to find me somehow. Pretty sure it's a curse.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Well. . .I am at 70 hours on the Square Getter Footscray, and I can honestly say I have a new number 1.  The SGF is just flat out insanity at it's finest!  The transparency and holographic stage are on another level, and the SGF has surpassed the O Getter and the Hamburg 6201 PWTMDG, by quite a large margin.
> 
> New top 5 rankings -  The gap between 1 and 2 is on purpose.
> 
> ...


Interesting you also got the O getters at 3. Can't wait to hear your number 1.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Interesting you also got the O getters at 3. Can't wait to hear your number 1.


I originally had the FOG and the 6201 PWTMDG tied, but with the 6201 having a bit better transparency, it's able to produce all the little nuances better, so it took the lead.  The FSG has all the transparency of the 6201 with all the musicality of the FOG and combined is on a completely different level.  I can't wait to hear your thoughts!


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I originally had the FOG and the 6201 PWTMDG tied, but with the 6201 having a bit better transparency, it's able to produce all the little nuances better, so it took the lead.  The FSG has all the transparency of the 6201 with all the musicality of the FOG and combined is on a completely different level.  I can't wait to hear your thoughts!


They are scheduled for Thursday but I'm betting I'll get them sooner. Tuesday hopefully as my other 2 sets came 2 days early.


----------



## jonathan c

Brimar CV455 (KB/FB 1956s):

Lapse of observation on my part! I hope that one of you ‘scrayers have caught this. I have just noticed that the Brimar CV455s that I have ordered from Langrex in U.K. all have square getters. 🤩🥳🎉


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> Brimar CV455 (KB/FB 1956s):
> 
> Lapse of observation on my part! I hope that one of you ‘scrayers have caught this. I have just noticed that the Brimar CV455s that I have ordered from Langrex in U.K. all have square getters. 🤩🥳🎉


That's why I ordered one a while ago.    I have yet to receive it, but hope to soon.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Well. . .I am at 70 hours on the Square Getter Footscray, and I can honestly say I have a new number 1.  The SGF is just flat out insanity at it's finest!  The transparency and holographic stage are on another level, and the SGF has surpassed the O Getter and the Hamburg 6201 PWTMDG, by quite a large margin.
> 
> New top 5 rankings -  The gap between 1 and 2 is on purpose.
> 
> ...


Just picked up a single of your number 2. Seemed to "forget" posting it here 😆. Looking out for another.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274840114224?redirect=mobile


----------



## Wes S (Jun 27, 2021)

TK16 said:


> Just picked up a single of your number 2. Seemed to "forget" posting it here 😆. Looking out for another.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/274840114224?redirect=mobile


I was going to buy that one, but it tested low so I passed.  Hopefully, it actually test better and sounds killer for you!


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I was going to buy that one, but it tested low so I passed.  Hopefully, it actually test better and sounds killer for you!


Yeah noticed the testing numbers, PW tubes in general are the worst testing that I've experienced. Had good experiences with the later years 6201 PW. Are your  6201 PW non microphonic?


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Yeah noticed the testing numbers, PW tubes in general are the worst testing that I've experienced. Had good experiences with the later years 6201 PW. Are your  6201 PW non microphonic?


Both of my PW D Getters are non microphonic and dead silent.  They seem to be made with love as evidenced by their sound, and the pinched waist, triple mica and D Getter all together in one tube looks cool as hell too.


----------



## Rowethren

jonathan c said:


> Brimar CV455 (KB/FB 1956s):
> 
> Lapse of observation on my part! I hope that one of you ‘scrayers have caught this. I have just noticed that the Brimar CV455s that I have ordered from Langrex in U.K. all have square getters. 🤩🥳🎉


Someone did post a comparison between the CV455s from Langrex and the O getter CV4033 but for whatever reason they found the CV4033s came out on top. Can't remember who it was though.


----------



## TK16

Rowethren said:


> Someone did post a comparison between the CV455s from Langrex and the O getter CV4033 but for whatever reason they found the CV4033s came out on top. Can't remember who it was though.


Which CV455? I've heard a bunch of 50's ECC81. Heerlen, Copenhagen, Mullard Blackburn,  Mullard Mitcham, Lorenz Stuttgart, Brimar ECC81 square getters. Best of the bunch was the Copenhagen ECC81 45 degree D getter. Haven't heard the Endihoven though. Sold every single pairs with the exception of the Copenhagen, hadn't gotten around to selling those. This is my experience with them, YMMV as audio goes. Everything is subjective.


----------



## Zurv (Jun 27, 2021)

darn... i was trying some Mullard CV4003 (CV4034) 1958
.. and no good. poor noise floor, popping and a lot of static when changing the volume (never saw that before.)
Note this was in a PrimaLuna EVO 400 in the 2 front gain slots.

Make me said, as they might have been "the ones" to clean up my bright speakers.
It could be that they don't like the PL.. or if I let them bake. The noise floor might get better (they are also for speakers.. i'm not sitting 1 foot away.) even the popping, but the really worry is the static when changing the volume.. hrmm..


----------



## Rowethren

TK16 said:


> Which CV455? I've heard a bunch of 50's ECC81. Heerlen, Copenhagen, Mullard Blackburn,  Mullard Mitcham, Lorenz Stuttgart, Brimar ECC81 square getters. Best of the bunch was the Copenhagen ECC81 45 degree D getter. Haven't heard the Endihoven though. Sold every single pairs with the exception of the Copenhagen, hadn't gotten around to selling those. This is my experience with them, YMMV as audio goes. Everything is subjective.


These ones I believe: https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/12at7-cv455-kb-fb-brimar-rare-triple-mica-1956-nos-valve-tube/


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 27, 2021)

Rowethren said:


> These ones I believe: https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/12at7-cv455-kb-fb-brimar-rare-triple-mica-1956-nos-valve-tube/


Thar they blow!…….Langrex is showing 335 in stock. I guess that one can identify the getter as square from the second photograph. My bet is that if the Langrex written description included “square getter”, far fewer than 335 would remain. Who wouldn’t pine for  triple mica / black plate / square getter 12AT7s?….from Brimar Footscray plant, no less !!


----------



## TK16 (Jun 27, 2021)

Rowethren said:


> These ones I believe: https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/12at7-cv455-kb-fb-brimar-rare-triple-mica-1956-nos-valve-tube/


The construction doesn't look like any Brimar I've tried in the past.
These are the ones I had. I sold them almost immediately. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/EARLY-BRIM...6-a3d4-4a6e-8a32-eebe8e50c60a&redirect=mobile


----------



## jonathan c

Rowethren said:


> Someone did post a comparison between the CV455s from Langrex and the O getter CV4033 but for whatever reason they found the CV4033s came out on top. Can't remember who it was though.


I did. It is on post #3,764 in this thread. Since I did not realise then (to my current embarrassment 😳) that the CV455s had square getters, I was not subject to any square getter bias. The CV4033s were and are superior - but not by much - in my opinion. I do think again that CV455 s/q = 95ish% CV4033 s/q (o getter).


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Stash first, share later.
> 
> Not that *I* would ever do that, of course.


The Bangybang / wege_high_tubes / menifee version: “Stash first, cash later” 😏…


----------



## JoeyB

jonathan c said:


> I did. It is on post #3,764 in this thread. Since I did not realise then (to my current embarrassment 😳) that the CV455s had square getters, I was not subject to any square getter bias. The CV4033s were and are superior - but not by much - in my opinion. I do think again that CV455 s/q = 95ish% CV4033 s/q (o getter).


I have both tubes and agree very close in sound. The only difference was the last bit of holographic 3 dimension sound and you are there vocals that the 4033 has over the 455. Construction wise they look almost identical except for the getters and the base added to the 4033


----------



## TK16

So, what's the next holy grail?!? Only bought the Footscray CV4033 halo and square getter. Anything considered better?


----------



## Zurv (Jun 27, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Thar they blow!…….Langrex is showing 335 in stock. I guess that one can identify the getter as square from the second photograph. My bet is that if the Langrex written description included “square getter”, far fewer than 335 would remain. Who wouldn’t pine for  triple mica / black plate / square getter 12AT7s?….from Brimar Footscray plant, no less !!


you already already drinking these down? The stock is 321 now 
Is that a legit place?

Can anyone suggest a tube tester? I'd love get yelled at more by my wife. 
I'm really still bummed how super bad the mallard 12au7s i tired out today. Like, the worse tubes i ever heard in my life - by a long shot. (they are $200+ a pop too.)


----------



## Guidostrunk

Zurv said:


> you already already drinking these down? The stock is 321 now
> Is that a legit place?


Langrex has been around forever. Slow to process and ship but definitely legit.


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> So, what's the next holy grail?!? Only bought the Footscray CV4033 halo and square getter. Anything considered better?


As I said in an earlier post elsewhere, the next holy grail is probably not a tube but a mint / unopened original vinyl release of […….]. 🤩


----------



## bcowen (Jun 27, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Langrex has been around forever. Slow to process and ship but definitely legit.


Yup.  I've bought quite a few tubes from him over the years, and always received what was advertised.  Good prices on some rare tubes on occasion too though most are at going market prices.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Langrex has been around forever. Slow to process and ship but definitely legit.


~ I have purchased from Langrex quite a few times. Yes, for Brimar CV455 KB/FB! but for other great items, too. Fancy being able to purchase Lansdale long-plate 12AU7s from Langrex!
~ No complaints about merchandise & service. The complexities of Brexit, in my professional opinion, have affected the timeliness of export operations of many U.K. enterprises.


----------



## jonathan c

JoeyB said:


> I have both tubes and agree very close in sound. The only difference was the last bit of holographic 3 dimension sound and you are there vocals that the 4033 has over the 455. Construction wise they look almost identical except for the getters and the base added to the 4033.


On that last point, Pulse Engineering starts with the “flying lead” version of the Brimar CV4033 and wires/attaches the base to the tube.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> As I said in an earlier post elsewhere, the next holy grail is probably not a tube but a mint / unopened original vinyl release of […….]. 🤩


One of my favorites. The digital versions (CD or streaming) are quite good, but the 2-LP set is totally in a class by itself.  Seems the price has gone up a bit though when you can find a copy...


----------



## billerb1 (Jun 27, 2021)

I just listened to Hendrix's Voodoo Child (Slight Return) on the Footscray Squares.  I'm not coming back anytime soon, if at all.  Have mercy !
Oh I had mentioned that I thought I'd picked up some distortion while listening to them the other day.  Nothing since...thank God.  I'd have to kill myself if these things went bad on me.


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> Points well-taken and noted J.
> 
> (Edit:  By the way, what does mellifluous mean ???)


Musical, sweet, non-dissonant…


----------



## billerb1

As in, "Jimi's lead in Voodoo Child is super mellifluous" ???


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> As in, "Jimi's lead in Voodoo Child is super mellifluous" ???


Try this then: his wah-wah technique and distortion are mellifluous 😏…


----------



## billerb1

jonathan c said:


> Try this then: his wah-wah technique and distortion are mellifluous 😏…


LMAO !!!  You're the best bro.


----------



## jonathan c

Moving from Jimi to the Footscrays, for a moment, I have found that _really _cleaning the pins (and sockets) allows the KB/FBs to bathe me with their otherworldly sound. Old hat, probably, to you…I don’t want to be tripped by the obvious. [ I use Bar Keeper’s Friend on the pins, Kontak in the sockets.] Holy grails should ===> ‘holy ####!’


----------



## jonathan c

jonathan c said:


> Try this then: his wah-wah technique and distortion are mellifluous 😏…


Jimi did make these attributes essential modes of expression. An orbit beyond those of Charlie Christian and Les Paul…


----------



## billerb1

jonathan c said:


> Jimi did make these attributes essential modes of expression. An orbit beyond those of Charlie Christian and Les Paul…


Untouchable.


----------



## Rowethren

Interestingly the square getters are now listed on their website, albeit out of stock. I wonder if that implies he will get more. Also does the tube on the left in to photo look like it has different colour plates or is that just the lighting?

https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use


----------



## Guidostrunk

Rowethren said:


> Interestingly the square getters are now listed on their website, albeit out of stock. I wonder if that implies he will get more. Also does the tube on the left in to photo look like it has different colour plates or is that just the lighting?
> 
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use


Just lighting


----------



## TK16

My sqares are coming today. Damn quick!


----------



## JoeyB

Rowethren said:


> Interestingly the square getters are now listed on their website, albeit out of stock. I wonder if that implies he will get more. Also does the tube on the left in to photo look like it has different colour plates or is that just the lighting?
> 
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use


When I wrote him about the last set he did say he was trying to get more.


----------



## TK16

Got the tubes, tested balanced and strong. Oct 1956 production. Warming up now. Not sure how much I can tolerate with AC on and fans with open back cans.


----------



## Zurv (Jun 28, 2021)

more testing today. I hope these don't suck like the CV4034s i tested the other day.
(*So far very quiet*!!!   (of course that is how they should be.) I going let them bake a few hours before i give a listen to them.)
But here is some pr0n:
(the logo looks super new.. i wonder if someone put a sticker on it.)
BRIMAR F6067T - 1950'S ECC82/CV4003/12AU7/13D5











or these... but i don't have anything to put them in till my mj2 comes back from repair:
BRIMAR CV4033 1957 STC Footscray  ECC81:CV4024:12AT7


----------



## ksorota

Zurv said:


> more testing today. I hope these don't suck like the CV4034s i tested the other day.
> But here is some pr0n:
> (the logo looks super new.. i wonder if someone put a sticker on it.)
> BRIMAR F6067T - 1950'S ECC82/CV4003/12AU7/13D5
> ...


Nice haul...really want to know how the 12au7 footscray holds up!


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Got the tubes, tested balanced and strong. Oct 1956 production. Warming up now. Not sure how much I can tolerate with AC on and fans with open back cans.


Hope they are everything you want them to be.  I was one of the few that STARTED out with the Square Getters (thanks for your encouragement to get them btw !!).  What will be my backup pair, the O getters, are scheduled for delivery today.  I'm not quite feeling the buzz you are, lol.  Let us know what you think TK.  I think my squares were definitely ripe in 50 hours but they sounded more than decent right out of the box.  Cheers !!!


----------



## Zurv

ksorota said:


> Nice haul...really want to know how the 12au7 footscray holds up!


I'm real tempted to get backups for them. (well.. i'd like to get all the 12au7 slots of the PL full of scary feet too.)
but.. at $200 a pop.. ouch.

I have a bunch of 1960 brimar 12ua7s that i normally use. I'll use them in the driver slots.
But for testing i wanted to use the Golden Lions 12au7 because they are super quiet and neutral.
I told my wife i wanted to play 2 min of music to see how the footy's sounded. 
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO TUBES!!!!!!!!!"

i guess i'll have to do it when she walks the dog.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Hope they are everything you want them to be.  I was one of the few that STARTED out with the Square Getters (thanks for your encouragement to get them btw !!).  What will be my backup pair, the O getters, are scheduled for delivery today.  I'm not quite feeling the buzz you are, lol.  Let us know what you think TK.  I think my squares were definitely ripe in 50 hours but they sounded more than decent right out of the box.  Cheers !!!


Very early but love what I'm hearing so far. Listening to a HD Boston's debut album. Seems to need a burn in though. About 72 to a 100 hrs I should have more observations. You won't be disappointed in the O getters, those are fantastic btw.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Very early but love what I'm hearing so far. Listening to a HD Boston's debut album. Seems to need a burn in though. About 72 to a 100 hrs I should have more observations. You won't be disappointed in the O getters, those are fantastic btw.


Will be real interested in your comparison of the Squares and O's.  We should both be able to do that comparison about the same time.
Enjoy !!!


----------



## jonathan c

Zurv said:


> I'm real tempted to get backups for them. (well.. i'd like to get all the 12au7 slots of the PL full of scary feet too.)
> but.. at $200 a pop.. ouch.
> 
> I have a bunch of 1960 brimar 12ua7s that i normally use. I'll use them in the driver slots.
> ...


…’Honey, these aren’t tubes, they’re pre-solid state…😀😏🤷🏻…


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Very early but love what I'm hearing so far. Listening to a HD Boston's debut album. Seems to need a burn in though. About 72 to a 100 hrs I should have more observations. You won't be disappointed in the O getters, those are fantastic btw.


Nice!  Mine needed every bit of 75 hours of burn in to get to their happy place, and they changed quit a bit along they way.  Fun times ahead for you no doubt!


----------



## jonathan c

Q:        What is a D-getter?……..

A:        Holy grail triple-mica Footscray 1956

WIFE:  Diamond getter…$$$…


----------



## Zurv

woo.. 15min i had with the tubes when the wife left with the dog. (it is like 100F.. so that was pretty long. that dog heats the heat. Smart dog!)

Full Brimar chorus line (the two on the sides are 1960s and the centers are 1950s)






hrmm.. it kinda sounds the same as all 1960s.. but i'm going thru speakers are aren't fully broken in... but it was gwed. (you know i'm serious because ... gwed...)


----------



## TK16

Zurv said:


> woo.. 15min i had with the tubes when the wife left with the dog. (it is like 100F.. so that was pretty long. that dog heats the heat. Smart dog!)
> 
> Full Brimar chorus line (the two on the sides are 1960s and the centers are 1950s)
> 
> ...


No offense bro but I'm hoping you don't like those Brimar. Trying to save myself some cash.😁
Do you have any impressions yet?


----------



## Zurv

I've still not had much time with it RE: wife 
but so far it has a little of what i was expecting from the mullard. Warmth on the top end.
Note, my unbroke-in in sopra n2 are painfully bright and it is connected to my schiit yggy with a can sometimes be bright... 

Hopefully tonight i'll play around with it on headphones. I'll have a better sense then.


----------



## TK16

Man these Footscray squared CV4033 are fantastic! 10 hours in.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Man these Footscray squared CV4033 are fantastic! 10 hours in.


So what are they doing at this point that you didn't hear with the O Getters?


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> So what are they doing at this point that you didn't hear with the O Getters?


More balanced in the FR. More detail, blacker background. Very close to the O getters. Got the O getters at number 3. These might end up at 1 or 2. Still very early.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> More balanced in the FR. More detail, blacker background. Very close to the O getters. Got the O getters at number 3. These might end up at 1 or 2. Still very early.


Well  that seems to be the stock answer.  Keep us up to date.  I got my O's early this afternoon, cleaned 'em up and plugged them in.  I think I've spent too long in bands and listening to loud headphones.  Think my ears are shot.  I'm not sure in a blind test if I would have been able to tell the difference between the raw, out-of-the-box O's and my 100+ hour now-legendary McScary Squares.  I mean I'm not running an MJ2 like most of you guys...but really !!!  We'll see what happens.  I guess it's a compliment to the O's.


----------



## Guidostrunk

If you love live jazz/funk music. Check out this schiit out. Cory Wong. 😁
There's 2 sets. 
#1 
Spotify stream


Tidal stream
https://tidal.com/album/153235699


Set #2 

Spotify stream


Tidal stream
https://tidal.com/album/153236895


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> If you love live jazz/funk music. Check out this schiit out. Cory Wong. 😁
> There's 2 sets.
> #1
> Spotify stream
> ...



Yikes am I the only 1 that listens to 99% classic rock? 😂
Just bought Tom Petty The Best of Everything 24/96 freaking fantastic.


----------



## billerb1 (Jun 29, 2021)

TK16 said:


> Yikes am I the only 1 that listens to 99% classic rock? 😂
> Just bought Tom Petty The Best of Everything 24/96 freaking fantastic.


I LOVE Tom Petty.  I loved him (and The Heartbreakers) even more after reading this biography...
Maybe the greatest American band.

https://www.amazon.com/Petty-Biography-Warren-Zanes/dp/1250105196/ref=asc_df_1250105196/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312021252609&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5031600773619412104&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032879&hvtargid=pla-395952540633&psc


----------



## Zurv

Ok, the wife is out for a bit.. time to fire up my all of the place testing playlist 
https://open.qobuz.com/playlist/6436489


----------



## TK16

Zurv said:


> Ok, the wife is out for a bit.. time to fire up my all of the place testing playlist
> https://open.qobuz.com/playlist/6436489


I expect a thumbs down on those Brimar 6067 please!


----------



## Zurv

TK16 said:


> I expect a thumbs down on those Brimar 6067 please!


i already bought backup. So the rest are all yours.


----------



## TK16

Zurv said:


> i already bought backup. So the rest are all yours.


What's your impression of them? How do they compare with the Footscray CV4033 O or square getter?


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> I LOVE Tom Petty.  I loved him (and The Heartbreakers) even more after reading this biography...
> Maybe the greatest American band.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Petty-Biography-Warren-Zanes/dp/1250105196/ref=asc_df_1250105196/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312021252609&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5031600773619412104&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032879&hvtargid=pla-395952540633&psc



Listen about 4 hours early on the squares definitely improved. What's your impression on the O getters?


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Listen about 4 hours early on the squares definitely improved. What's your impression on the O getters?


Last listening was at only about 5 hours.  Let me burn them till this evening then I'll give an update when they'll have about 20 hours on them.  At 5 hours you could have thrown a blanket over them and the squares.  Maybe the O's were a tad more congested.  Wasn't picking up the same degree of spatial cues...a touch flatter presentation.  But we're splitting hairs.  That said, if you put a gun to my head, and I could only have one pair...I wouldn't hesitate to pick the Square McScarys.  But I've always been heavily influenced by peer pressure, LMAO.  More later.


----------



## jonathan c

Zurv said:


> Ok, the wife is out for a bit.. time to fire up my all of the place testing playlist
> https://open.qobuz.com/playlist/6436489


…when the cat’s away, the mice will Footscray…


----------



## Zurv (Jun 29, 2021)

TK16 said:


> What's your impression of them? How do they compare with the Footscray CV4033 O or square getter?


sadly i can't test the footscray yet as my Mj2 comes back from repair  tomorrow (?) - righ tnow i'm i'm using the 6067 in the primaluna.
I have to make sure i'm not tricked by gain when I do test them both head to head. The 6067 has a lot of gain (even compared to other 12au7)

I'm pretty sure the cv4033 won't work in a 12au7 slot. (well.. it might work, but the power is very different. )

I have tons of 12AT7s now (i SUPER stocked up on the footscray.. like hrmm.. ) but no place to use them. Other than the mj2.
i got 4 from pulse and 4 from Langrex.
TK16.. if you want. I'm happen to let you test out the Langrex ones.


----------



## M-83

Rowethren said:


> So what you are telling me is it is all my own fault I can never buy a spare set...
> 
> That will teach me to share stuff with the group


I spoke with Sanjiv via email.  There may be another batch cooking and available for purchase later in the year.....


----------



## M-83

Evening Ladies & Gents.  Just enjoying a bit of LCD-X, MJ2 & Footscray magic.

Here is my one music post of the day:


----------



## TK16

Zurv said:


> sadly i can't test the footscray yet as my Mj2 comes back from repair  tomorrow (?) - righ tnow i'm i'm using the 6067 in the primaluna.
> I have to make sure i'm not tricked by gain when I do test them both head to head. The 6067 has a lot of gain (even compared to other 12au7)
> 
> I'm pretty sure the cv4033 won't work in a 12au7 slot. (well.. it might work, but the power is very different. )
> ...


Appreciate the offer bro. Not a huge fan of the Brimar house sound. Got way too many tubes as is. CV4033 is the exception.


----------



## M-83

I have had the pleasure of listening to Audio Technica ATH-AWAS with MJ2 & Feliks Echo earlier today.  I picked up ATH-AWAS as I was curious how it would sound.

I can highly recommend it. 

Where AWAS & Echo is delicate and slightly lush with nice punchy bass, with mids and vocals to die for... LCD-X & MJ2 has more weight to the sound- bass is fuller, more textured and reaches much deeper. 

AWAS is soooo light to wear in comparison to Atticus/LCD-X. They are both comfortable though in their own way.


----------



## Guidostrunk (Jun 29, 2021)

Got my Footscray shirts today lol. Thanks @jonathan c for the hookup.
Actually wearing one on my way to dinner to celebrate the wife's birthday 😂


----------



## M-83

Guidostrunk said:


> Got my Footcray shirts today lol. Thanks @jonathan c for the hookup.
> Actually wearing one on my way to dinner to celebrate the wife's birthday 😂


That's awesome, and have a great evening celebrating the better half's birthday


----------



## M-83

Ahhhhhh "Graceland" by Paul Simon.  I love this track. So many layers to it and a mix of different musical styles

This is a great story as told by Paul Simon:


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 29, 2021)

M-83 said:


> I have had the pleasure of listening to Audio Technica ATH-AWAS with MJ2 & Feliks Echo earlier today.  I picked up ATH-AWAS as I was curious how it would sound.
> 
> I can highly recommend it.
> 
> ...


I love the balanced hefty feel of the LCD-X…no mistaking it for a commuting tool. I have the older leather non-cantilever headband. Q:  What cables are you using with the LCD-X? I have alternated between copper/silver and palladium/silver depending on the music.


----------



## roman410

ksorota said:


> I have a set I could sell at original cost that I have never opened. If y’all are interested?
> 
> I’ll cover Shipping


Hi, are you still have them for sale?


----------



## TK16

Think the SG CV4033 Footscrays are likely going to end up as my number 1 tube.


----------



## ksorota

roman410 said:


> Hi, are you still have them for sale?



Actually, as o about an hour ago they are not as a new opportunity to use them arose; a WA2 will become their new home in about a week!

Sorry for the tease. It sounds like more are coming from pulse though so hold on tight.

Im going to wait for the new round and make sure to have a good sense of the halos before to compare to the squares.


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> Think the SG CV4033 Footscrays are likely going to end up as my number 1 tube.


I.E., solid-state public enemy #1…


----------



## billerb1 (Jun 30, 2021)

TK16 said:


> Think the SG CV4033 Footscrays are likely going to end up as my number 1 tube.



I A/B'd the 25 hour O's to the 100+ hour Squares tonite (probably not totally fair to the O's but what are you gonna do?).  Started with the O's.  Had not listened to the Square Getters since starting the O's burn-in early yesterday.  I think being away from the Squares for a period of time helped greatly in clarifying the situation in my head.  The O's, as always, standing on their own, sounded great.  Big, juicy and real as hell.  But following them with the Squares clearly elevated the Squares to the musical altar they deserve.  As many of you have pointed out, it's the nuance that they bring.  They provide more information per note than I've heard any tube deliver.  The macro/micro  detail...that slight sustain and sense of room reverb that I think Sammy, Wes and others have pointed out...creates a PURITY, a weight, a musicality and a total  realism that separates it from the O's, my ex-beloved Tele ECC801S's and any other tube I've ever heard.  I do believe that they have an actual PULSE.  A GLOW !!!  So count me in as a believer.  I feel very fortunate to have these.  It's about as real as I think I'll ever get on my rig.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Think the SG CV4033 Footscrays are likely going to end up as my number 1 tube.


I knew they would be.


----------



## Guidostrunk

billerb1 said:


> I A/B'd the 25 hour O's to the 100+ hour Squares tonite (probably not totally fair to the O's but what are you gonna do?).  Started with the O's.  Had not listened to the Square Getters since starting the O's burn-in early yesterday.  I think being away from the Squares for a period of time helped greatly in clarifying the situation in my head.  The O's, as always, standing on their own, sounded great.  Big, juicy and real as hell.  But following them with the Squares clearly elevated the Squares to the musical altar they deserve.  As many of you have pointed out, it's the nuance that they bring.  They provide more information per note than I've heard any tube deliver.  The macro/micro  detail...that slight sustain and sense of room reverb that I think Sammy, Wes and others have pointed out...creates a PURITY, a weight, a musicality and a total  realism that separates it from the O's, my ex-beloved Tele ECC801S's and any other tube I've ever heard.  I do believe that they have an actual PULSE.  A GLOW !!!  So count me in as a believer.  I feel very fortunate to have these.  It's about as real as I think I'll ever get on my rig.


You nailed it Billy! That's exactly what separates them from the O's , and every other 12at7 I've ever heard. Lol


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> I A/B'd the 25 hour O's to the 100+ hour Squares tonite (probably not totally fair to the O's but what are you gonna do?).  Started with the O's.  Had not listened to the Square Getters since starting the O's burn-in early yesterday.  I think being away from the Squares for a period of time helped greatly in clarifying the situation in my head.  The O's, as always, standing on their own, sounded great.  Big, juicy and real as hell.  But following them with the Squares clearly elevated the Squares to the musical altar they deserve.  As many of you have pointed out, it's the nuance that they bring.  They provide more information per note than I've heard any tube deliver.  The macro/micro  detail...that slight sustain and sense of room reverb that I think Sammy, Wes and others have pointed out...creates a PURITY, a weight, a musicality and a total  realism that separates it from the O's, my ex-beloved Tele ECC801S's and any other tube I've ever heard.  I do believe that they have an actual PULSE.  A GLOW !!!  So count me in as a believer.  I feel very fortunate to have these.  It's about as real as I think I'll ever get on my rig.


Fantastic review bro. Seems many of us share the same experiences with regard to the O getters in relation squares.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 30, 2021)

Good stuff fellas!  I think we can all say with confidence, that the FSGTM CV4033 56' is the King.  I feel like we have finally found the end of the rainbow!


----------



## billerb1

Wes S said:


> Good stuff fellas!  I think we can all say with confidence, that the FSGTM CV4033 56' is the King.  I feel like we have finally found the end of the rainbow!


As it says in my Signature, "Saved by Sammy" (again) !!!  He made me do it.  Damn bro, I guess I'll owe you forever.


----------



## G0rt

Wes S said:


> Good stuff fellas!  I think we can all say with confidence, that the FSGTM CV4033 56' is the King.  I feel like we have finally found the end of the rainbow!


Until next time.


----------



## billerb1

G0rt said:


> Until next time.


Well we've all "been there, done that"...but you know what, Wes...this time I truly believe you're right.  All hail the KING.


----------



## Guidostrunk

billerb1 said:


> As it says in my Signature, "Saved by Sammy" (again) !!!  He made me do it.  Damn bro, I guess I'll owe you forever.


I'm just happy that you was open to trying them bro. I know how much you love the Teles.


----------



## jonathan c (Jul 1, 2021)

~ What is amazing about Footscrays OG 1957 and SG 1956 is that these were not produced with domestic audio in mind! Their consistency, linearity, and ruggedness were for use in civilian defense and in the military.
~ “The king is dead, long live the king”. And ‘knighthood’ to Sanjiv for his role in bringing joy to the ‘scrayers!


----------



## Wes S

billerb1 said:


> Well we've all "been there, done that"...but you know what, Wes...this time I truly believe you're right.  All hail the KING.


I agree, and I am done with hunting for tubes.


----------



## jonathan c

Edited above 4638


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> I agree, and I am done with hunting for tubes.


But not for backup 😜…


----------



## Wes S (Jun 30, 2021)

G0rt said:


> Until next time.


Don't think there will be one . . .  


jonathan c said:


> But not for backup 😜…


I've already got one (I bought a pair), as I only use one tube at a time.   It's nothing but musical discovery and bliss from here on out for me.


----------



## Guidostrunk

To think,  a few months ago this thread was on the brink of disappearing and forgotten about. First the MJ2 mod. Then the king arrived 😂


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 30, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> To think,  a few months ago this thread was on the brink of disappearing and forgotten about. First the MJ2 mod. Then the king arrived 😂


The MJ-II (mod) is going forth as a classic…before accounting for Footscrays. With Footscrays, Thor’s hammer smites any h/p/a pretender contender…⚒️ 😩 🤕 🏥…


----------



## billerb1

Hey Jonathan isn't the only lunatic with a new avatar.  Out with my German flag in honor of the Tele ECC801S's and in with the Union Jack !!!!!!


----------



## Wes S

billerb1 said:


> Hey Jonathan isn't the only lunatic with a new avatar.  Out with my German flag in honor of the Tele ECC801S's and in with the Union Jack !!!!!!


I like the way you guys think, and figured I would represent the King as well.   I borrowed Sanjiv's photo for now.


----------



## jonathan c

There is a reason for the crown on the Footscray t-shirts…😏…


----------



## G0rt

Wes S said:


> Don't think there will be one . . .
> 
> I've already got one (I bought a pair), as I only use one tube at a time.   It's nothing but musical discovery and bliss from here on out for me.


Anything could happen...

Aside, saw some curious history of that old Crittal window factory in Footscray that Brimar took over: windows for the Houses of Parliment and the Titanic had actually been made there. Fairly illustrious.


----------



## Wes S

G0rt said:


> Anything could happen...
> 
> Aside, saw some curious history of that old Crittal window factory in Footscray that Brimar took over: windows for the Houses of Parliment and the Titanic had actually been made there. Fairly illustrious.


I am not counting it out, based off passes experiences, however this time I think it really is the end.  At least that what my bank account needs. . .


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I agree, and I am done with hunting for tubes.


Bookmarked for future use! 😁

Tubemonger.com got a10% off sale for anybody interested.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Bookmarked for future use! 😁
> 
> Tubemonger.com got a10% off sale for anybody interested.


LOL! I know I have said that before and did not keep my word, so lets see how it goes this time.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> LOL! I know I have said that before and did not keep my word, so lets see how it goes this time.


Said the same thing then I got Footscray's, Heeren ECC82 45 degree D getter and Hamburg ECC82's.


----------



## billerb1

Wes S said:


> I am not counting it out, based off passes experiences, however this time I think it really is the end.  At least that what my bank account needs. . .


I made it for about 4 years with the Telefunkens.  Then I sent a PM to Sammy......


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> I made it for about 4 years with the Telefunkens.  Then I sent a PM to Sammy......


…and look how it turned out…


----------



## billerb1 (Jun 30, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> …and look how it turned out…


Just sayin' I almost made it.  Didn't say I wasn't happy !!!

Edit:  Make that ecstatic !!!!!!  God save the Queen !!!!!!


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> Just sayin' I almost made it.  Didn't say I wasn't happy !!!
> 
> Edit:  Make that ecstatic !!!!!!  God save the Queen !!!!!!


When Britannia ruled (and still rules) the 12AT7 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧…


----------



## TK16

Update best of list. New number 1.

1. Brimar Footscray CV4033 1956
2. Heerlen 7316 long plate 1958
3. Hamburg ECC82 long plate square getter 1956
4. Brimar Footscray CV4033 1957
5. Hamburg Pinched Waist 6201 1959
6. GEC A2900 2x mica 1971
7. Heerlen ECC82 45 degree D-getter long plate 1955
8. Mullard Mitcham 6201 1964
9. Copenhagen ECC81 45 degree D-getter 1951
10. Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 3x mica
11. HiVac ECC82 square getter
12. Foton 6N3P 1958 3x mica
13. 6922 1958 Heerlen D-getter
14. CCa Heerlen Pinched Waist 1956
15. Mullard Blackburn ECC82 square getter 1957
16. Valvo Hamburg PCC88 Pinched Waist 1957
17. Western Electric 396A 1946/1947
18. CBS 5814a square getter 1958
19. ECC88 Heerlen D-getter 1958
20. Reflektor 6N3P 1958 3x mica
21. Brimar ECC82 square getter 1955


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Update best of list. New number 1.
> 
> 1. Brimar Footscray CV4033 1956
> 2. Heerlen 7316 long plate 1958
> ...


Badass.


----------



## M-83

Been rocking out to some Spiritualized this evening:


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> Update best of list. New number 1.
> 
> 1. Brimar Footscray CV4033 1956
> 2. Heerlen 7316 long plate 1958
> ...


----------



## Wes S (Jun 30, 2021)

Avatar is updated,  representing my number 1.        Long live the King!


----------



## billerb1

AVATAR  SUPERNOVA  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## billerb1

Sammy ????


----------



## billerb1

Nice Sammy.  Way to get with the program LMAO !!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

billerb1 said:


> Nice Sammy.  Way to get with the program LMAO !!!!!!!!!!


😂😂😂 yeah ... what a debacle.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> 😂😂😂 yeah ... what a debacle.


I like your current Avatar, and I thought about doing the same thing.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> I like your current Avatar, and I thought about doing the same thing.


It took me a while to get it right 😂


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I like your current Avatar, and I thought about doing the same thing.


You planning to continue changing the avatar hourly? 😂


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> You planning to continue changing the avatar hourly? 😂


It keeps changing and then I am having issues changing it back. . .


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> It keeps changing and then I am having issues changing it back. . .


Me too keeps going back to the previous 1.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Me too keeps going back to the previous 1.


Freaking annoying isn't it!


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> You planning to continue changing the avatar hourly? 😂


A new HFier activity: avatar rolling….but with no GE tube pix….


----------



## TK16 (Jul 1, 2021)

Went with the O getter avatar to be different.
As soon as I have a couple hours of free time, I'll change it.


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> Went with the O getter avatar to be different.
> As soon as I have a couple hours of free time square getter listening, I'll change it. 😜


FTFY (Reg. TM, © bcowen: 2021)…


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Went with the O getter avatar to be different.
> As soon as I have a couple hours of free time, I'll change it.


LOL!  It definitely is not a quick process.


----------



## Guidostrunk




----------



## Guidostrunk




----------



## TK16

Has anybody tried these? Curious about impressions. Pretty leery of being the guinea pig.
https://pulsetubestore.com/products/cv3986


----------



## Guidostrunk




----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> Has anybody tried these? Curious about impressions. Pretty leery of being the guinea pig.
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products/cv3986


That was @jb77 favorite tube when he used to roll with us back in the day. He never had Footscrays but every other tube on the planet and chose those over everything.


----------



## Guidostrunk




----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> That was @jb77 favorite tube when he used to roll with us back in the day. He never had Footscrays but every other tube on the planet and chose those over everything.


He wrote the review on the tube in the ad. Think they sent him a pair for free as a beta tester.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> He wrote the review on the tube in the ad. Think they sent him a pair for free as a beta tester.


Yep thats him. I never jumped on them and don't know why 😂


----------



## Guidostrunk




----------



## Wes S (Jul 2, 2021)

TK16 said:


> Has anybody tried these? Curious about impressions. Pretty leery of being the guinea pig.
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products/cv3986


I remember @jb77 reaching out to me about those before they were released and he was quite enamored with them.  I got to read the review before it was published, but I never did give them a try.  I know @Ripper2860 bought a pair not too long ago, you might give him a shout.  I turned him onto the 7728 around the same time he bought those Mullard 6021 and he said the Mullard were decent but not worth as much as they are listed.  I know he loves the 7728 and anyways I would reach out to him, for another opinion on those 6021.


----------



## TK16 (Jul 2, 2021)

Disregard. Not sure what happened here.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I remember @jb77 reaching out to me about those before they were released and he was quite enamored with them.  I got to read the review before it was published, but I never did give them a try.  I know @Ripper2860 bought a pair not too long ago, you might give him a shout.  I turned him onto the 7728 around the same time he bought those Mullard 6021 and he said the Mullard were decent but not worth as much as they are listed.  I know he loves the 7728 and anyways I would reach out to him, for another opinion on those 6021.


Thanks I'll pass on these.


----------



## billerb1

Let it be known that on this date and forevermore I hereby proclaim the Footscray Square Getters "The Royal Tube for the Ages".
Hank


----------



## Guidostrunk

😂😂😂


----------



## G0rt

billerb1 said:


> Let it be known that on this date and forevermore I hereby proclaim the Footscray Square Getters "The Royal Tube for the Ages".
> Hank


Circle gets the square.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Let it be known that on this date and forevermore I hereby proclaim the Footscray Square Getters "The Royal Tube for the Ages".
> Hank


Don't think you have to worry about anyone stealing that avatar bro. J/K bro.


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> Let it be known that on this date and forevermore I hereby proclaim the Footscray Square Getters "The Royal Tube for the Ages".
> Hank


Official tube of the House of Tudor….on His Majesty’s Service…


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> Don't think you have to worry about anyone stealing that avatar bro. J/K bro.


If anyone tries, beheading is the penalty…


----------



## JoeyB

The last of the squares has arrived


----------



## TK16

JoeyB said:


> The last of the squares has arrived


Mine are Oct 56 as well. Enjoy!


----------



## jonathan c

jonathan c said:


> If anyone tries, beheading is the penalty…


The old mnemonic about Henry VIII wives: beheaded, beheaded, died, beheaded, beheaded, survived…


----------



## Zurv (Jul 2, 2021)

well.. i got a bunch of 1956 3 mica black plate 12AT7 brimars from Langrex.
and.. hrmm.. they don't test them. So i have no idea of how they test or match.
*sigh*.. i guess bad on me.
Ideas how i could test these?





https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/12at7-cv455-kb-fb-brimar-rare-triple-mica-1956-nos-valve-tube/


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 2, 2021)

TK16 said:


> Don't think you have to worry about anyone stealing that avatar bro. J/K bro.


Henry the Eighth is only going to be around for a couple of days.  With his history he prefers to fly way under the radar.  I think
we should feel honored that he felt inspired enough in his dead state to pay us a visit and honor the Squares.  Sammy, as a side note,  he told me to tell you he has a thing for Dire Straits too.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Zurv said:


> well.. i got a bunch of 1956 3 mica black plate 12AT7 brimars from Langrex.
> and.. hrmm.. they don't test them. So i have no idea of how they test or match.
> *sigh*.. i guess bad on me.
> Ideas how i could test these?
> ...


How many did you get? How many are going into what piece of gear your using them in? If it's the MJ2 just grab a pair and pop them in. They're NOS so you should be fine with whatever 2 you choose.


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 2, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


>



Sammy I happened to catch Stevie Winwood at an outdoor concert in the Columbia River Gorge a couple summers ago and unlike a lot of these old fart bands that try to cash in on past fame and are a total joke to watch, Stevie still has it.  Totally still has it.  As an added bonus, his drummer happened to be Richard Bailey, who happened to be the drummer on Jeff Beck's legendary 1975 Blow by Blow album and was always a hero of mine.  What a friggin' night that was !!!  Here's a video of that band.



And here is Richard Bailey's playing on Freeway Jam off that Jeff Beck Blow by Blow album...


----------



## Zurv (Jul 2, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> How many did you get? How many are going into what piece of gear your using them in? If it's the MJ2 just grab a pair and pop them in. They're NOS so you should be fine with whatever 2 you choose.


hrmm.. 8...  ahah.. i don't even really have anything I want to use them in either.
I did get my mj2 yesterday (after a repair).
i also got a few from pulse too 

yes, just using them one can tell if they are crap. But i'd like to know if they are gain matched.

damn all this 3 mica footy stuff!


----------



## TK16

Zurv said:


> well.. i got a bunch of 1956 3 mica black plate 12AT7 brimars from Langrex.
> and.. hrmm.. they don't test them. So i have no idea of how they test or match.
> *sigh*.. i guess bad on me.
> Ideas how i could test these?
> ...


The ad says tested new and unused. Tube looks to be in good shape visually. Pick a couple at random and try them out. That is a very good seller, wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## Guidostrunk

billerb1 said:


> Sammy I happened to catch Stevie Winwood at an outdoor concert in the Columbia River Gorge a couple summers ago and unlike a lot of these old fart bands that try to cash in on past fame and are a total joke to watch, Stevie still has it.  Totally still has it.  As an added bonus, his drummer happened to be Richard Bailey, who happened to be the drummer on Jeff Beck's legendary 1975 Blow by Blow album and was always a hero of mine.  What a friggin' night that was !!!  Here's a video of that band.
> 
> 
> 
> And here is Richard Bailey's playing on Freeway Jam off that Jeff Beck Blow by Blow album...



I always wished I would have grown up in that time era Billy. Blessed to have had family though that listened to all of it while growing up.


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> I always wished I would have grown up in that time era Billy. Blessed to have had family though that listened to all of it while growing up.


Geeezzzzzzzz Sammy, I was thinking you were an old man like me.  What are you, like 22 or something ????


----------



## Guidostrunk

billerb1 said:


> Geeezzzzzzzz Sammy, I was thinking you were an old man like me.  What are you, like 22 or something ????


😂😂😂 46 Billy. What I wouldn't give to be 22 though lol.


----------



## billerb1

Guidostrunk said:


> 😂😂😂 46 Billy. What I wouldn't give to be 22 though lol.


Hell at 46 you don't even remember The Great One (Roberto Clemente) and you're from Pittsburgh for christsakes !!!!!


----------



## jonathan c

Zurv said:


> well.. i got a bunch of 1956 3 mica black plate 12AT7 brimars from Langrex.
> and.. hrmm.. they don't test them. So i have no idea of how they test or match.
> *sigh*.. i guess bad on me.
> Ideas how i could test these?
> ...


~ I would just clean the pins shiny (Bar Keeper’s Friend is excellent), insert in adapters, and enjoy. From what I have read, even a 10% mismatch in a pair of like tubes is inaudible during music playback.
~ I have had _no_ problems with any tube(s) which I have bought from Langrex.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Thanks I'll pass on these.


Good call.  I have the 1971 version, and while they are nice they didn't blow me away even at ~$25 for the tube and socket saver to solder them into (I made my own).


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> Sammy I happened to catch Stevie Winwood at an outdoor concert in the Columbia River Gorge a couple summers ago and unlike a lot of these old fart bands that try to cash in on past fame and are a total joke to watch, Stevie still has it.  Totally still has it.  As an added bonus, his drummer happened to be Richard Bailey, who happened to be the drummer on Jeff Beck's legendary 1975 Blow by Blow album and was always a hero of mine.  What a friggin' night that was !!!  Here's a video of that band.
> 
> 
> 
> And here is Richard Bailey's playing on Freeway Jam off that Jeff Beck Blow by Blow album...



Blow by Blow is a tremendous album. I think that it is Jeff Beck’s best. The sound engineering quality of the album is totally apparent via the MJ-II/Footscray combination.  When it comes to the guitarist alumni of the Yardbirds, I’ve always thought of JB as the most talented and interesting.


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> Hell at 46 you don't even remember The Great One (Roberto Clemente) and you're from Pittsburgh for christsakes !!!!!


How about some great jazz people from Pittsburgh: Art Blakey, the Turrentine brothers, George Benson, Errol Garner…just to start…


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> Geeezzzzzzzz Sammy, I was thinking you were an old man like me.  What are you, like 22 or something ????


On the other hand: let’s hear it for growing old _dis_gracefully !! 😜🤪…


----------



## billerb1

jonathan c said:


> Blow by Blow is a tremendous album. I think that it is Jeff Beck’s best. The sound engineering quality of the album is totally apparent via the MJ-II/Footscray combination.  When it comes to the guitarist alumni of the Yardbirds, I’ve always thought of JB as the most talented and interesting.


Agreed.  And he's another one who_ still_ hasn't skipped a beat.  A true master.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Where would funk be without this?


----------



## M-83




----------



## M-83

My rig has at last been relocated from my home office to our lounge 👍🏼


----------



## M-83 (Jul 3, 2021)

Picked up a Preloved ZMF Vérité Open this week at a great price. Delighted with it.

Synergy is better with Gumby and Echo over Gumby and MJ2 though.


----------



## M-83

Found this earlier, thought it would be appreciated here 😀


----------



## bcowen

M-83 said:


> Picked up a Preloved ZMF Vérité Open this week at a great price. Delighted with it.
> 
> Synergy is better with Gumby and Echo over Gumby and MJ2 though.


Sweet!!  Just got my un-preloved Atticus this week, ordered on April 1 (no fooling ).  Guess it's busy in ZMF land.  Breaking-in now, and I need to make some adapters to cook the cable.


----------



## bcowen

M-83 said:


> Found this earlier, thought it would be appreciated here 😀



Love it.  "Widely used in modern T/V receivers..."


----------



## M-83

bcowen said:


> Sweet!!  Just got my un-preloved Atticus this week, ordered on April 1 (no fooling ).  Guess it's busy in ZMF land.  Breaking-in now, and I need to make some adapters to cook the cable.


Awesome! Enjoy!! Looks great.


----------



## M-83

bcowen said:


> Love it.  "Widely used in modern T/V receivers..."


Yeah lol a totally different world back then. Amazing that we can put such tech to good use in our age.


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> Sweet!!  Just got my un-preloved Atticus this week, ordered on April 1 (no fooling ).  Guess it's busy in ZMF land.  Breaking-in now, and I need to make some adapters to cook the cable.


Welcome to the club!  My alltime favorite headphone!  Congrats bro!  Get ready for some bass and mids to die for!


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Welcome to the club!  My alltime favorite headphone!  Congrats bro!  Get ready for some bass and mids to die for!


Good to know.  Thanks!  This is my first pair of ZMF's, but a perfect match for my needs being a closed design with high impedance.  On first listen they are a little lightweight in the bass, but that should resolve with some play time.  I'll give 'em 48 hours with the Purist Audio break-in CD and check the progress...


----------



## Wes S (Jul 4, 2021)

bcowen said:


> Good to know.  Thanks!  This is my first pair of ZMF's, but a perfect match for my needs being a closed design with high impedance.  On first listen they are a little lightweight in the bass, but that should resolve with some play time.  I'll give 'em 48 hours with the Purist Audio break-in CD and check the progress...


Nice!  I had the same reaction to the bass, when I first got them.  I remember thinking what are all these people talking about, when they say these are mid bass monsters.  However, with the right chain (tubes, amp, and DAC), it lights out punch you in the side of the head kind of power.    Also, I remember being surprised by how balanced they were.  I truly think the Atticus is the definition of the ZMF "house sound", and is the most unique in the lineup.  I can get them sounding intimate, rich, and slamming, or more neutral and open sounding, depending on amp and tubes, and I love how diverse they are.  I could go on and on, as I just love these headphones so much!  

My babies.


----------



## Wes S

M-83 said:


> My rig has at last been relocated from my home office to our lounge 👍🏼


Are those stock tubes in the Echo?  Come on bro, give that amp some Footscray love.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 4, 2021)

A couple of fun ones, that really stood out from yesterday's all day jam session!  

This one is just flat out insane, and Max has really taken things to another level with his latest album.






This song is just flat out fun as heck, with some slamming bass, crazy imaging.  The holographic staging ability of the Footscray, is in full affect with this song.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Happy 4th folks! 
 

Amazing how many hours I can spend jammin and not think about what I'm missing anymore 😂
These tubes are an absolute blessing. In awe every time I put my cans on.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Happy 4th folks!
> 
> 
> Amazing how many hours I can spend jammin and not think about what I'm missing anymore 😂
> These tubes are an absolute blessing. In awe every time I put my cans on.


Same to you brother! and to all you guys! 

I hear ya man!


----------



## Guidostrunk

For all the MJ2 owners now that the tube dust has settled. Please consider the cap mod. It's game over!


----------



## Rowethren

Guidostrunk said:


> For all the MJ2 owners now that the tube dust has settled. Please consider the cap mod. It's game over!


Don't keep reminding me!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Rowethren said:


> Don't keep reminding me!


You could always post a thread on here to see if there are any modders in your area or close enough. I don't think Keith would mind sharing the details and pics of the mod. Just a thought.


----------



## TK16

Happy July 4th everyone! 
3x mica GEC A2900 pair cheap. Was looking for this a long time but 3 pairs of the Brimar CV4033 happened.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2843538663...rentrq:729506d917a0acb4ab6fa48cffe16f9e|iid:1


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> Happy July 4th everyone!
> 3x mica GEC A2900 pair cheap. Was looking for this a long time but 3 pairs of the Brimar CV4033 happened.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/284353866365?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=b8d3aab4c0924b10ac9d006d35a95321&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=284353866365&itm=284353866365&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:f0e288fc-dced-11eb-ba61-9e44892a6943|parentrq:729506d917a0acb4ab6fa48cffe16f9e|iid:1


The tube version of Archimedes Law of Displacement…


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> The tube version of Archimedes Law of Displacement…


I might have jumped on those, but I'm only interested in GEC's and those are G&C's.


----------



## M-83

Guidostrunk said:


> For all the MJ2 owners now that the tube dust has settled. Please consider the cap mod. It's game over!


I really would like to do the cap mod. I am not proficient in such work and I would like to find someone in the UK with experience of this


----------



## M-83 (Jul 4, 2021)

Has anyone got experience of running Rosson Audio RAD-0 on Gumby and MJ2?

I may have an opportunity to grab a pair if I chop my LCD-X in.

Thoughts would be appreciated.

Also, I'm really diggin by ZMF Vérité Open and I'm not sure if I gave VC a proper chance previously... Unsure if I should move VO on and see if I can find a Preloved VC in the UK....


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Has anyone got experience of running Rosson Audio RAD-0 on Gumby and MJ2?
> 
> I may have an opportunity to grab a pair if I chop my LCD-X in.
> 
> ...


Have you tried the RAD-0 on for sound and comfort? I think that the RAD-0 is one of the best sounding planar headphones but I found it viciously uncomfortable 😳😣…it has a sorry excuse for headband cushioning…


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> Have you tried the RAD-0 on for sound and comfort? I think that the RAD-0 is one of the best sounding planar headphones but I found it viciously uncomfortable 😳😣…it has a sorry excuse for headband cushioning…


No, I've never seen one so it would be a blind purchase without testing for sound of comfort.

I get very easily distracted by the tiniest amount of discomfort with HP's. 

Perhaps I should stick with LCD-X.

Out of interest, have you tried LCD-XC?


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 4, 2021)

TK16 said:


> Happy July 4th everyone!
> 3x mica GEC A2900 pair cheap. Was looking for this a long time but 3 pairs of the Brimar CV4033 happened.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/284353866365?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=b8d3aab4c0924b10ac9d006d35a95321&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=284353866365&itm=284353866365&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:f0e288fc-dced-11eb-ba61-9e44892a6943|parentrq:729506d917a0acb4ab6fa48cffe16f9e|iid:1


I have a pair of the very rare triple mica GEC A2900's, near NOS according to the seller I got them from (I do not have a tester so I can't verify test readings), that I am not using.  I put less than 100 hours on them since purchase.  If anyone here is interested, PM me and we can discuss.  I would trade straight up for a pair of the Footscray Squares or make you a great deal on a sale.  They are dead quiet on my rig with no microphonics.  Check my seller feedback and let me know.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> I have a pair of supposedly near NOS triple mica GEC A2900's (I do not have a tester so I can't verify test readings) that I am not using.  If anyone here is interested, PM me and we can discuss.  I would trade straight up for a pair of the Footscray Squares or make you a great deal on a sale.  They are dead quiet on my rig with no microphonics.  Check my seller feedback and let me know.


Been dealing with @billerb1 for years, trusted headfi member here.


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> No, I've never seen one so it would be a blind purchase without testing for sound of comfort.
> 
> I get very easily distracted by the tiniest amount of discomfort with HP's.
> 
> ...


No, on the LCD-XC.


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> No, on the LCD-XC.


Okay no worries.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Nice!  I had the same reaction to the bass, when I first got them.  I remember thinking what are all these people talking about, when they say these are mid bass monsters.  However, with the right chain (tubes, amp, and DAC), it lights out punch you in the side of the head kind of power.    Also, I remember being surprised by how balanced they were.  I truly think the Atticus is the definition of the ZMF "house sound", and is the most unique in the lineup.  I can get them sounding intimate, rich, and slamming, or more neutral and open sounding, depending on amp and tubes, and I love how diverse they are.  I could go on and on, as I just love these headphones so much!
> 
> My babies.



I like your wood better than mine.   Wait...that sounds weird.  Nevermind.   

Doesn't look like the stock cable you have plugged in....what are you using?  The stock one feels a bit, um, underwhelming to me so I just ordered a Norne Drausk to see what it might bring to the table.


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> I like your wood better than mine.   Wait...that sounds weird.  Nevermind.
> 
> Doesn't look like the stock cable you have plugged in....what are you using?  The stock one feels a bit, um, underwhelming to me so I just ordered a Norne Drausk to see what it might bring to the table.


LOL!  I love my Cocobolo, but man it's heavy.  I am using a Norne Draug 3s, and it's my favorite cable of all the cables I have tried.  I here the Drausk is killer too, and if I did not have my Draug 3s, I would own one of those.  Nice couple of purchases bro!


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I like your wood better than mine.   Wait...that sounds weird.  Nevermind.
> 
> Doesn't look like the stock cable you have plugged in....what are you using?  The stock one feels a bit, um, underwhelming to me so I just ordered a Norne Drausk to see what it might bring to the table.


Wood! Yikes. 🙈🙉🙊


----------



## ksorota

Rowethren said:


> Don't keep reminding me!



I’ll walk you through it. It’s not too hard!


----------



## bcowen

ksorota said:


> I’ll walk you through it. It’s not too hard!


And that after the wood comments?  I predict @Ripper2860 will be popping in about now....


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> LOL!  I love my Cocobolo, but man it's heavy.  I am using a Norne Draug 3s, and it's my favorite cable of all the cables I have tried.  I here the Drausk is killer too, and if I did not have my Draug 3s, I would own one of those.  Nice couple of purchases bro!


Thanks!  I've never heard any of the Norne cables, but they seem to be quite highly regarded and sanely priced to boot.


----------



## Ripper2860

bcowen said:


> And that after the wood comments?  I predict @Ripper2860 will be popping in about now....


I'll leave any discussions about the hardness of my...

Nah.  That's just too easy.  😏


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> Thanks!  I've never heard any of the Norne cables, but they seem to be quite highly regarded and sanely priced to boot.


The Norne cables are a piece of artwork. I was never a cable guy until I finally bought one a few months ago. Extremely happy I did. Thanks again Keith for the nudge lol.


----------



## TK16

Was going to grab these gems myself, screw the rent or mortgage payment this month 5% off sale. 🤪 Feel free to grab em.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-AMPERE...0-53cd-4816-8f5e-9814ee1066b1&redirect=mobile


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Was going to grab these gems myself, screw the rent or mortgage payment this month 5% off sale. 🤪 Feel free to grab em.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-AMPEREX-HOLLAND-ECC82-12AU7-D-FOIL-MATCHED-PAIR-1957-8-100-GM-RARE-1st-GEN/294061173749?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=d75d8b89bea54eb3abdb334db7dbf568&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=294061173749&itm=294061173749&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=Amperex,pageci:d83a3a90-dd32-11eb-b846-a6c56d734fe1|parentrq:745897f517a0aaf609cfd008ffe13da6|iid:1&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&pageci=496a4dd0-53cd-4816-8f5e-9814ee1066b1&redirect=mobile


Very generous of you, but you go ahead and grab those.  Me?  I'm goin' for these:


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> The Norne cables are a piece of artwork. I was never a cable guy until I finally bought one a few months ago. Extremely happy I did. Thanks again Keith for the nudge lol.


Trevor at Norne is a pleasure to work with and his craftsmanship is _way out there…_


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> I'll leave any discussions about the hardness of my...
> 
> Nah.  That's just too easy.  😏


Just use the Janka count…


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> And that after the wood comments?  I predict @Ripper2860 will be popping in out about now....


….f…t…f…y…


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Very generous of you, but you go ahead and grab those.  Me?  I'm goin' for these:


I personally buy those Heerlen for 900+ before getting the GE tubes for pocket change. 😃


----------



## jonathan c (Jul 5, 2021)

Wes S said:


> Same to you brother! and to all you guys!
> 
> I hear ya man!


Now all we need is some of that Footscray gin from Australia…


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Perhaps I should stick with LCD-X.
> Out of interest, have you tried LCD-XC?


Definitely stick with the LCD-X: an excellent match to the MJ-II. As for closed-back hp, I have for you a recommendation: one that I own and listen with frequently. It is the Kennerton Gjallarhorn JM Edition. _It is an unbelievable hand-in-glove headphone for the MJ-II ! _The Gjallarhorn JM Edition is one of my top three headphones, period. FYI, there is a Kennerton closed-back hp thread in the Headphones (full size) forum.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> LOL!  I love my Coc_k_obolo, but man it's heavy.


….😳….


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Definitely stick with the LCD-X: an excellent match to the MJ-II. As for closed-back hp, I have for you a recommendation: one that I own and listen with frequently. It is the Kennerton Gjallarhorn JM Edition. _It is an unbelievable hand-in-glove headphone for the MJ-II ! _The Gjallarhorn JM Edition is one of my top three headphones, period. FYI, there is a Kennerton closed-back hp thread in the Headphones (full size) forum.


Can't believe that it's a horn loaded design. That's amazing!  I'm a big fan of horn loaded designs. My entire pa/dj rig back in the day was a Bill Fitzmaurice design. All built by myself. Lol. Yeah I'm a carpenter 😁

Mains were the DR250 (had 6 of these)
Live Subs were the Titan 48(for live venues. Had 6 of these) 
DJ Subs were the Tuba 60( had 4 of these) 
Crown macrotech for the subs as mono blocks per sub.
QSC powerlite series for mains. 

So damn long ago 😂



https://billfitzmaurice.info/


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Can't believe that it's a horn loaded design. That's amazing!  I'm a big fan of horn loaded designs. My entire pa/dj rig back in the day was a Bill Fitzmaurice design. All built by myself. Lol. Yeah I'm a carpenter 😁
> 
> Mains were the DR250 (had 6 of these)
> Live Subs were the Titan 48(for live venues. Had 6 of these)
> ...


See post #1,612 in the Valhalla II Tube Rolling thread…


----------



## Rowethren

ksorota said:


> I’ll walk you through it. It’s not too hard!


That would be great!


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> Definitely stick with the LCD-X: an excellent match to the MJ-II. As for closed-back hp, I have for you a recommendation: one that I own and listen with frequently. It is the Kennerton Gjallarhorn JM Edition. _It is an unbelievable hand-in-glove headphone for the MJ-II ! _The Gjallarhorn JM Edition is one of my top three headphones, period. FYI, there is a Kennerton closed-back hp thread in the Headphones (full size) forum.


Okay thanks, will look it up


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Can't believe that it's a horn loaded design. That's amazing!  I'm a big fan of horn loaded designs. My entire pa/dj rig back in the day was a Bill Fitzmaurice design. All built by myself. Lol. Yeah I'm a carpenter 😁
> 
> Mains were the DR250 (had 6 of these)
> Live Subs were the Titan 48(for live venues. Had 6 of these)
> ...


That sounds like a serious setup!  I would have loved to hear some of my favorite Electronica albums on that system!  Did you host raves, if not I bet you could have with that rig?


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> Definitely stick with the LCD-X: an excellent match to the MJ-II. As for closed-back hp, I have for you a recommendation: one that I own and listen with frequently. It is the Kennerton Gjallarhorn JM Edition. _It is an unbelievable hand-in-glove headphone for the MJ-II ! _The Gjallarhorn JM Edition is one of my top three headphones, period. FYI, there is a Kennerton closed-back hp thread in the Headphones (full size) forum.


Is the G'horn okay with MJ2 considering it has a maximum rated power input of 250mW?  I've heard it suffers from bloated bass, which I may not like.


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Is the G'horn okay with MJ2 considering it has a maximum rated power input of 250mW?  I've heard it suffers from bloated bass, which I may not like.


~ The Gjallarhorn is fine with the MJ-II: that is the point of my post. There is no bass bloat from the Gjallarhorn - bass is clean, pure, and deep. One needs to have a good earcup seal. HeadFier John Massaria (for whom the JM Edition is named) discusses this in the Kennerton closed-back thread.
~ The sensitivity of the Gjallarhorn is high: 116.6 dB/V. By comparison, that of the Focal Clear is 110.6 dB/V. This contributes to the excellent dynamic range of the Gjallarhorn and also allows for the MJ-II to operate in the low-gain setting.


----------



## jonathan c (Jul 5, 2021)

Wes S said:


> That sounds like a serious setup!  I would have loved to hear some of my favorite Electronica albums on that system!  Did you host raves, if not I bet you could have with that rig?


Let’s rework the tradition: _*FOOTSCRAVES *_


----------



## RogerHuston

I got my MJ2 a couple weeks ago.  I stopped by the Schiitr and listened to it with the Gumby.  Brought out the best in my GL2k, it finally started sounding good.  Took a bit, but II did find one used and upgraded it with a couple E180CC/7062, pinched waist, Foil D Getters.


----------



## bcowen

Today's fare, part of my usual evaluation regimen.  Getting a _much_ better separation of the piano with the semi broken-in Atticus when things get busy -- it got 'lost in the wail' through the HD-6XX's at some points...


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> ~ The Gjallarhorn is fine with the MJ-II: that is the point of my post. There is no bass bloat from the Gjallarhorn - bass is clean, pure, and deep. One needs to have a good earcup seal. HeadFier John Massaria (for whom the JM Edition is named) discusses this in the Kennerton closed-back thread.
> ~ The sensitivity of the Gjallarhorn is high: 116.6 dB/V. By comparison, that of the Focal Clear is 110.6 dB/V. This contributes to the excellent dynamic range of the Gjallarhorn and also allows for the MJ-II to operate in the low-gain setting.


Okay thanks. I have an opportunity to pick up a standard GH50 (not JM variant) but need to read up on the differences.


----------



## M-83 (Jul 5, 2021)

Here's today's track share.... It's rather cheesy but it's a fun song. My wife was just bopping along to it as she's in ear shot of LCD-X leak.



I couldn't listen to this next track without posting it... Such an amazing track and a fantastic movie:


----------



## Guidostrunk (Jul 5, 2021)

Wes S said:


> That sounds like a serious setup!  I would have loved to hear some of my favorite Electronica albums on that system!  Did you host raves, if not I bet you could have with that rig?


Never did any raves which would have been cool, but I can tell you that EDM on the Tuba 60's could probably register on the Richter Scale 😂
Those subs could literally stop your heart with bass. They dug deep down to 30hz without breaking a sweat. The crazy thing about the design is that you didn't need an astronomical amount of power to drive them. I could barely get the first set of lights to blink on the dB meters , and it was at earthquake level performance.

Before I built the horn design rig , I was using QSC K series powered speakers and subs. 4 of the QSC K118 couldn't keep up with 1 tuba 60 😬

The horns also produced the most accurate bass response I've ever heard on PA gear. Absolutely distortion free.


----------



## TK16

Anyone willing to take a chance? 😁
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPER-RARE...4-7a6a-4f7c-8213-6894a7de8f1f&redirect=mobile


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> Anyone willing to take a chance? 😁
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPER-RARE-MULLARD-ECC82-1593-LONG-BLACK-WELDED-PLATE-SQUARE-GETTERS/114473382341?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=d36de72dd5874890a64256097c04b898&pid=100675&rk=2&rkt=15&sd=144103034755&itm=114473382341&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057,pageci:6c124575-dde8-11eb-ae56-f6a869117108|parentrq:78fe947117a0a6e7a4b606bbffcc04f4|iid:1&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&pageci=a41c9d54-7a6a-4f7c-8213-6894a7de8f1f&redirect=mobile


😂 probably thick sounding.


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> 😂 probably thick sounding.


LOL!!!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Anyone willing to take a chance? 😁
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPER-RARE-MULLARD-ECC82-1593-LONG-BLACK-WELDED-PLATE-SQUARE-GETTERS/114473382341?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=d36de72dd5874890a64256097c04b898&pid=100675&rk=2&rkt=15&sd=144103034755&itm=114473382341&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057,pageci:6c124575-dde8-11eb-ae56-f6a869117108|parentrq:78fe947117a0a6e7a4b606bbffcc04f4|iid:1&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&pageci=a41c9d54-7a6a-4f7c-8213-6894a7de8f1f&redirect=mobile


Naw, I'd only pay $500 for a can of square getters.   Or worms.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Anyone willing to take a chance? 😁
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPER-RARE-MULLARD-ECC82-1593-LONG-BLACK-WELDED-PLATE-SQUARE-GETTERS/114473382341?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=d36de72dd5874890a64256097c04b898&pid=100675&rk=2&rkt=15&sd=144103034755&itm=114473382341&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057,pageci:6c124575-dde8-11eb-ae56-f6a869117108|parentrq:78fe947117a0a6e7a4b606bbffcc04f4|iid:1&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&pageci=a41c9d54-7a6a-4f7c-8213-6894a7de8f1f&redirect=mobile


Dangit.  I was too slow.  This guy obviously bought those getters and refurbished these tubes.  

But on the plus side, they're A-frame windmill getters which are @TK16 's favorite.    

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2244974313...YU8Uqs3Hk6vRYFX5yyYb|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2047675


----------



## TK16 (Jul 5, 2021)

bcowen said:


> Dangit.  I was too slow.  This guy obviously bought those getters and refurbished these tubes.
> 
> But on the plus side, they're A-frame windmill getters which are @TK16 's favorite.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2244974313...YU8Uqs3Hk6vRYFX5yyYb|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2047675


🤮
Much better at 1/6 the price.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-6N3P-...7-51e8-4629-911e-bcc0d483cd0a&redirect=mobile


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> 🤮
> Much better at 1/6 the price.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-6N3P-...7-51e8-4629-911e-bcc0d483cd0a&redirect=mobile


If windmill getters, be looking for the orange PQ version (Pancho / Quixote)…


----------



## TK16

jonathan c said:


> If windmill getters, be looking for the orange PQ version (Pancho / Quixote)…


By far the WORST I ever heard. Buy em and share your impressions. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-NOS...a-9899-4b31-8573-af6c5543b5e7&redirect=mobile


----------



## M-83

Any experience of Dan Clark Audio Aeon 2 Closed with Gumby and MJ2?

I have been recommended it.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> By far the WORST I ever heard. Buy em and share your impressions.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/E188CC-NOS-1x-Mullard-RTC-Goldpin-R-hre-Tube-7308-CV4108-CCa-6922-/153093783315?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=3e9c84df9f5c46d5a6bc8ad962f62533&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=153093783315&itm=153093783315&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=Mullard,pageci:45d83c80-ddff-11eb-ab17-0a5dd2de1ae6|parentrq:7994557017a0a744852ab03cffd7f6fe|iid:1&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&pageci=aca679ba-9899-4b31-8573-af6c5543b5e7&redirect=mobile


I'll take your worst and raise by an even worse.  I've never heard the tube you linked so you may win, but the tube below is so incredibly nasty that it's hard to envision anything that could possibly sound worse.   

https://www.ebay.com/itm/154369344182?hash=item23f12142b6:g:IWoAAOSwcFBe6XxN


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I'll take your worst and raise by an even worse.  I've never heard the tube you linked so you may win, but the tube below is so incredibly nasty that it's hard to envision anything that could possibly sound worse.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/154369344182?hash=item23f12142b6:g:IWoAAOSwcFBe6XxN


1987 might have something to do with that.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 7, 2021)

If anyone is interested I am selling a NIB matched pair of Brimar CV4033 Triple Mica O Getters from Footscray 57' for $150. They are listed in the classifieds. I have several sets of these, and don't need so many of them, so here is a golden opportunity for someone. Just of note I am only selling within U.S.

Edit - The sale is pending.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> If anyone is interested I am selling a NIB matched pair of Brimar CV4033 Triple Mica O Getters from Footscray 57' for $150. They are listed in the classifieds. I have several sets of these, and don't need so many of them, so here is a golden opportunity for someone. Just of note I am only selling within U.S.
> 
> Edit - The sale is pending.


PayPal ready for the tube in your avatar bro! 🤣


----------



## Wes S (Jul 7, 2021)

TK16 said:


> PayPal ready for the tube in your avatar bro! 🤣


Not a chance in heck bro!    That tube is my new number 1.  I spent this past weekend doing nothing but switching back and forth between the Square Getter Footscray and the 6201 Pinched Waist Triple Mica D Getter (bottom code Df1 first version in white ink), and this 6201 is superior in my setup. Prior to this past weekend I was using my other 6201 (bottom Code Df5 in red ink), and the first version is tops. The bass, stage and transparency are on another level that no other tube I have heard comes even close to.  I can literally feel the music with this 6201.  I will be writing a more thorough comparison between the two tubes shortly.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Not a chance in heck bro!    That tube is my new number 1.  I spent this past weekend doing nothing but switching back and forth between the Square Getter Footscray and the 6201 Pinched Waist Triple Mica D Getter (bottom code Df1 first version in white ink), and this 6201 is superior in my setup. Prior to this past weekend I was using my other 6201 (bottom Code Df5 in red ink), and the first version is tops. The bass, stage and transparency are on another level, that no other tube I have heard comes even close to.  I can literally feel the music with this 6201.  I will be writing a more thorough comparison between the three tubes shortly.


I hear ya, still waiting for my single D getter 6201. Got some of the later PW and they are incredible.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 7, 2021)

Wes S said:


> Not a chance in heck bro!    That tube is my new number 1.  I spent this past weekend doing nothing but switching back and forth between the Square Getter Footscray and the 6201 Pinched Waist Triple Mica D Getter (bottom code Df1 first version in white ink), and this 6201 is superior in my setup. Prior to this past weekend I was using my other 6201 (bottom Code Df5 in red ink), and the first version is tops. The bass, stage and transparency are on another level, that no other tube I have heard comes even close to.  I can literally feel the music with this 6201.  I will be writing a more thorough comparison between the three tubes shortly.


I'm out.  This compulsive tube rolling thing just never ends... 

... in anything but heartbreak, disappointment, and finally bankruptcy.  😒


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> I'm out.  This compulsive tube rolling thing just never ends...
> 
> ... in anything but heartbreak, disappointment, and finally bankruptcy.  😒


https://www.ebay.com/itm/254823666794?epid=1318452812&hash=item3b54ac946a:g:C48AAOSweNBf8HKB
Buy this before bankruptcy, on sale.
Though might speed up the process exponentially.


----------



## Ripper2860

That would be a Hell to the No!  😄


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> That would be a Hell to the No!  😄


If it's too much consider going half and half with @bcowen 🤪


----------



## Wes S (Jul 7, 2021)

My top 2 tubes.

1.  Hamburg 6201 Pinched Waist Triple Mica D Getter (Df1) - Listening with this tube is like stepping into the venue.  The first thing that grabs your attention is the soundstage.  This is the most expansive stage in all directions that I have heard period.  I feel like I can look around and reach out and touch the musicians.  This is a spooky feeling and the headphones just seemed to disappear and the sound fills the entire room.  The level of detail is tops,  and I am hearing more little nuances with this tube than any other.  The bass hits hard and is tight and very impactful.  This is the best bass I have heard and you can feel the air moving with this tube.  The mids are more in line with the rest of the spectrum and the overall balance is perfect top to bottom.  The highs are very much extended too, but are never harsh.  The really amazing thing with this tube is the timbre. Everything is so well spaced, fully fleshed out and natural sounding to where nothing feels forced.  I can listen with this tube very loudly for hours without any fatigue.  Back to the detail, and this is where this tube pulls ahead of the CV4033 FSG, there is not one part of the spectrum more detailed than the other, as in I hear everything clearly.  With the CV4033 FSG the vocals are more upfront from guitars and other instruments, and sometimes the vocals are clearer than the instruments.  The 6201 has the perfect amount of warmth from the bass, and clarity in the mids and highs, and is in a league of it's own.  The focus of this tube is that everything comes at you at once, but everything is so well spaced out and balanced.  The vocals and instruments are all about the same distance away and one does not overshadow the other.  The sound seems to come at me from all directions.





2.  Footscray CV4033 Triple Mica Square Getter 56' - This tube is warmer, slower (in a good way), and less impactful than 6201, but what it does amazingly well is vocals and imaging.  The soundstage is more compact and tighter than the 6201, which allows for the tight imaging, and forward vocals.  I hear almost as much of the little nuances as I do with the 6201, but I have to focus a bit more to pick up the really quite bits.  This tube seems to slow the music down if you will, and the notes linger longer.  The stage is holographic with good depth front to back.  The focus of this tube seems to start with the vocals and then the instruments come in a little behind and less clear and sound trails outward.  




At the end of the day, I pick one or the other depending on my mood and which headphones I will be using.  Honestly, I can't imagine it getting any better, but I have said this same thing before. . .


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> My top 2 tubes.
> 
> 1.  Hamburg 6201 Pinched Waist Triple Mica D Getter (Df1) - Listening with this tube is like stepping into the venue.  The first thing that grabs your attention is the soundstage.  This is the most expansive stage in all directions that I have heard period.  I feel like I can look around and reach out and touch the musicians.  This is a spooky feeling and the headphones just seemed to disappear and the sound fills the entire room.  The level of detail is tops,  and I am hearing more little nuances with this tube than any other.  The bass hits hard and is tight and very impactful.  This is the best bass I have heard and you can feel the air moving with this tube.  The mids are more in line with the rest of the spectrum and the overall balance is perfect top to bottom.  The highs are very much extended too, but are never harsh.  The really amazing thing with this tube is the timbre. Everything is so well spaced, fully fleshed out and natural sounding to where nothing feels forced.  I can listen with this tube very loudly for hours without any fatigue.  Back to the detail, and this is where this tube pulls ahead of the CV4033 FSG, there is not one part of the spectrum more detailed than the other, as in I hear everything clearly.  With the CV4033 FSG the vocals are more upfront from guitars and other instruments, and sometimes the vocals are clearer than the instruments.  The 6201 has the perfect amount of warmth from the bass, and clarity in the mids and highs, and is in a league of it's own.  The focus of this tube is that everything comes at you at once, but everything is so well spaced out and balanced.  The vocals and instruments are all about the same distance away and one does not overshadow the other.  The sound seems to come at me from all directions.
> 
> ...


Phenomenal review bro! Can't wait to find another df1 6201 PW d getter to hear em for myself.


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> I'm out.  This compulsive tube rolling thing just never ends...
> 
> ... in anything but heartbreak, disappointment, and finally bankruptcy.  😒


The only way to be content with the tubes you have, is to unsubscribe from this forum, and especially this thread.  

Recap of my most recent quest for the "Holy Grail"  -  It all started with the 7730 Long Plate Square Getter,  followed by the 7728 (2 hole), followed by the 7728 (1 hole), followed by the Footscray CV4033 Triple Mica O Getter 57', followed by the Footscray CV4033 Triple Mica Square Getter 56', and finally the Hamburg 6201 Pinched Waist Triple Mica D Getter. . .


----------



## Ripper2860

Maybe I should hang around the Nobsound NS-08E forum.  6J3 tube rolling seems to be rather limited and cheap.


----------



## Wes S

I do have some good news.  I took delivery of the much more affordable Footscray CV455 Footscray Square Getter 56', and fired it up this morning.  I took a brief listen before work and I am quite impressed with what I heard.  More to come on comparisons once I have it burned in, but what I heard this morning was very very promising.  Price and supply level is our friend with this tube.


----------



## Ripper2860

Well, I sure hope they live up to all the hype @Guidostrunk has heaped upon these tubes -- especially since I just ordered 2 of them for my VH2.   

(I hate myself!!)


----------



## Wes S (Jul 7, 2021)

Ripper2860 said:


> Well, I sure hope they live up to all the hype @Guidostrunk has heaped upon these tubes -- especially since I just ordered 2 of them for my VH2.
> 
> (I hate myself!!)


Nice man!  Which ones?  The CV455 or CV4033?  Either one you will like yourself again once you hear them.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 7, 2021)

Dipping my toe in with the CV455s.  The unicorn AD/FB 4033s are sold out -- THANKFULLY!!!!

(I managed a whole 60 days since my last tube purchase.  Now I have to start all over.  One day at a time, as they say.)


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> Dipping my toe in with the CV455s.  The AD/FB 4033s are sold out -- THANKFULLY!!!!


Good choice!  I am listening with mine right now, and I am loving it.  The holographic stage and tight imaging are to die for!


----------



## Wes S (Jul 7, 2021)

I am home early from work listening with CV455 Square Getters during their burn in, and these are sounding very familiar and maybe even better than the King.  Honestly, if these don't get any worse after burn-in which I really don't see happening, there might be another mixup with the rankings.  The little details and nuances are coming through in full effect with this tube.


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> Well, I sure hope they live up to all the hype @Guidostrunk has heaped upon these tubes -- especially since I just ordered 2 of them for my VH2.
> 
> (I hate myself!!)


Go to the Valhalla Tube Rolling thread....I use the CV455 KB/FB in the Valhalla II.....*Fantastic!*


----------



## Ripper2860

OK, but I came here to get away from all the Footscray footsie going on over there.


----------



## JohnBal

Wes S said:


> I do have some good news.  I took delivery of the much more affordable Footscray CV455 Footscray Square Getter 56', and fired it up this morning.  I took a brief listen before work and I am quite impressed with what I heard.  More to come on comparisons once I have it burned in, but what I heard this morning was very very promising.  Price and supply level is our friend with this tube.


I picked these up from Langrex too and just put them in my Lyr 3 this morning with adapter. Sounding really good in the Lyr. Very happy with the 455’s. Thank you guys for all of your hard work comparing these tubes and the recommendation. I was going to get the 4033 but the price had just jumped and these sounded like they would be a close runner-up.


----------



## Guidostrunk

JohnBal said:


> I picked these up from Langrex too and just put them in my Lyr 3 this morning with adapter. Sounding really good in the Lyr. Very happy with the 455’s. Thank you guys for all of your hard work comparing these tubes and the recommendation. I was going to get the 4033 but the price had just jumped and these sounded like they would be a close runner-up.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> I am home early from work listening with CV455 Square Getters during their burn in, and these are sounding very familiar and maybe even better than the King.  Honestly, if these don't get any worse after burn-in which I really don't see happening, there might be another mixup with the rankings.  The little details and nuances are coming through in full effect with this tube.


It seems that post-Footscray, you are always home early…😏🎶🤪…


----------



## TK16

jonathan c said:


> It seems that post-Footscray, you are always home early…😏🎶🤪…


He might have mentioned being done buying tubes too. 🤣. I'm going on the record I'm done buying tubes.
Haha.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> If it's too much consider going half and half with @bcowen 🤪


LOL!  I'll be bankrupt, dead, and already have my cremated ashes scattered carelessly in the nearest McDonalds dumpster before wege_high_tubes will ever see a dollar of mine.  He's only one step up the ladder from BangyBang IMO, and that ladder has 20 steps between ground level and the initial 9".


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Either one you will like yourself again...


There is _no_ tube capable of that, even the mighty Footscray.


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> He might have mentioned being done buying tubes too. 🤣. I'm going on the record I'm done buying tubes.
> Haha.


Key: done buying tube*s *(more than one at purchase). Open to buying a tube at a time 😏…heh heh…


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> There is _no_ tube capable of that, even the mighty Footscray.


Not buying a GE tube might help you like yourself again. At least your ears might be grateful (rather than grated)…


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> He might have mentioned being done buying tubes too. 🤣. I'm going on the record I'm done buying tubes.
> Haha.


Yep!  I am eating my words once again, as I just bought 2 more of the CV455.   I am really really liking what I am hearing and like I mentioned before the tube rankings are most likely going to be changed once again.  I will just leave it at that for now. . .


----------



## Wes S (Jul 8, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> It seems that post-Footscray, you are always home early…😏🎶🤪…


This is true, and I just can't get enough.  Being able to hear my favorite artist as if I was there on stage with them is addicting and I need more than 24 hours in a day, as I am sure you all do as well.  Life is short enjoy it while you can!


----------



## TK16

jonathan c said:


> Key: done buying tube*s *(more than one at purchase). Open to buying a tube at a time 😏…heh heh…


You should be a defense attorney bro. 🤣


----------



## Wes S (Jul 8, 2021)

So, I have put 20 hours on the CV455 Footscray Square Getter 56', and as it stands right now here is how I rank the 3 Triple Mica Footscray's.  This ranking is based off the level of clarity/transparency and ability to produce nuance/micro details.

1.  CV455 Square Getter 56'
2.  CV4033 Square Getter 56'
3.  CV4033 O Getter 57'

I will report back on the final ranking once I have hit the 70 hour mark on the CV455, however I really don't see the rankings changing.

@jonathan c  perhaps we value different aspects of a tube, or maybe I got a Unicorn CV455 , because this tube is definitely not 95% of the O or Square Getter in my mind and with my gear.  In fact, so far it's the other way around. 

Get em while you can folks.  I know the stock is plentiful right now, however this tube is listed on ebay right now, so it's definitely getting more exposure.  I think it will be interesting to see how long the supply actually last.

I have some theories as to why the CV455 is tops, and one of them is that I believe the CV455 came before the CV4033 as in earlier is better.  I read online that the CV455 was the prototype for the CV4024/CV4033, but I am not 100% sure on the source.  Also, I think the normal pins vs. Flying Leads conversion might give it a slight edge as well, but I am just guessing.  I do know the CV455 that I am currently using was made in the 4 week of January 56', which makes it the oldest Footscray Triple Mica I own.

More to come after a long 3 day weekend of ab'ing.


----------



## Rowethren

Wes S said:


> So, I have put 20 hours on the CV455 Footscray Square Getter 56', and as it stands right now here is how I rank the 3 Triple Mica Footscray's.  This ranking is based off the level of clarity/transparency and ability to produce nuance/micro details.
> 
> 1.  CV455 Square Getter 56'
> 2.  CV4033 Square Getter 56'
> ...



As they are so much cheaper I better buy a pair... 


Or 10!


----------



## Wes S

Rowethren said:


> As they are so much cheaper I better buy a pair...
> 
> 
> Or 10!


My thoughts exactly.


----------



## Rowethren

Just ordered a pair. With a set of CV455 and CV4033 Footscray square getters I should be good for quite a few years!

@Wes S Did you clean the pins on your CV455 as they look much cleaner than the ones in the advert.


----------



## Wes S

Rowethren said:


> Just ordered a pair. With a set of CV455 and CV4033 Footscray square getters I should be good for quite a few years!
> 
> @Wes S Did you clean the pins on your CV455 as they look much cleaner than the ones in the advert.


Nice man!  You definitely should be set for a long while with those 2 pairs.  

As far as the pins on mine I did clean them, but not before that picture.  Even after cleaning them I did not remove anything so they definitely came clean already.  I always just use a q-tip dipped in alcohol if they don't look to bad, and if they look bad, then I use deoxit and a magic eraser or sand paper.  Honestly, I think these CV455 were stored properly and have not seen the light of day since 56' other than testing them before they are sold.  I have noticed often with steel pins they just get dark with age, and can look bad but usually really aren't.


----------



## Rowethren

Wes S said:


> Nice man!  You definitely should be set for a long while with those 2 pairs.
> 
> As far as the pins on mine I did clean them, but not before that picture.  Even after cleaning them I did not remove anything so they definitely came clean already.  I always just use a q-tip dipped in alcohol if they don't look to bad, and if they look bad, then I use deoxit and a magic eraser or sand paper.  Honestly, I think these CV455 were stored properly and have not seen the light of day since 56' other than testing them before they are sold.  I have noticed often with steel pins they just get dark with age, and can look bad but usually really aren't.



Great, glad to hear it! Hopefully they are okay because I don't have any alcohol or Deoxit... I should probably get some lol


----------



## Ripper2860

So how long did it take to get from UK to TX?  I'm trying to sort out which will arrive first -- the Magnepan LRS speakers I ordered on 3/15 or the CV455s I ordered yesterday.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 8, 2021)

Ripper2860 said:


> So how long did it take to get from UK to TX?  I'm trying to sort out which will arrive first -- the Magnepan LRS speakers I ordered on 3/15 or the CV455s I ordered yesterday.


My first one took 30 days, and hopefully the two I ordered yesterday don't take as long.  I know others got there's in like a week.  For some reason all my international packages take forever to get to Texas. 

 3/15?  ouch!


----------



## TK16

You guys are killing me with the fkn CV455 crap!
😁


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 8, 2021)

Wes S said:


> My first one took 30 days, and hopefully the two I ordered yesterday don't take as long.  I know others got there's in like a week.  For some reason all my international packages take forever to get to Texas.  3/15?  ouch!


If they go through the Coppell, TX Mail Disruption Center, then I can understand the delay.


----------



## Guidostrunk

For cleaning pins we all used to use this stuff. Works fantastic.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XICZIL...imm_Q76G4VD56BCYSQVJE21F?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> You guys are killing me with the fkn CV455 crap!
> 😁


+1.  Of course I just ordered a pair.  I _had_ to.  Just like I _had _to order a pair of supposedly the last pair of CV4033 O getters (they weren't) as my backup to supposedly the last pair of the CV4033 square getters (they weren't).  Life was so much easier/cheaper when I had managed to forget about HeadFi for the last few years.   Of course my rig wouldn't have sounded as good but, as they say, ignorance is bliss.


----------



## Ripper2860

Guidostrunk said:


> For cleaning pins we all used to use this stuff. Works fantastic.
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XICZIL...imm_Q76G4VD56BCYSQVJE21F?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


I believe the GOLD is a contact treatment to resist corrosion AFTER they've been cleaned.   I use DeoxIT RED to clean...

https://www.amazon.com/D100L-16BX-D...3f78f&pd_rd_wg=67HfU&pd_rd_i=B07F8ZX2GD&psc=1


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> +1.  Of course I just ordered a pair.  I _had_ to.  Just like I _had _to order a pair of supposedly the last pair of CV4033 O getters (they weren't) as my backup to supposedly the last pair of the CV4033 square getters (they weren't).  Life was so much easier/cheaper when I had managed to forget about HeadFi for the last few years.   Of course my rig wouldn't have sounded as good but, as they say, ignorance is bliss.


Same, price was reasonable compared to my $300 pair of square getter CV4033. I'm sure glad I didn't go on the record yesterday that I was done buying tubes.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 8, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> For cleaning pins we all used to use this stuff. Works fantastic.
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XICZIL...imm_Q76G4VD56BCYSQVJE21F?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


I use that brand and it works great.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 8, 2021)

Ripper2860 said:


> I believe the GOLD is a contact treatment to resist corrosion AFTER they've been cleaned.   I use DeoxIT RED to clean...
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/D100L-16BX-D...3f78f&pd_rd_wg=67HfU&pd_rd_i=B07F8ZX2GD&psc=1


That's actually the stuff I use, good call.  I let the tube pins sit soaked in that red stuff overnight and they come out sparkly clean eveytime.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 8, 2021)

OK.  Straight from my bottle labels...


----------



## M-83

Ah at last some chill out time with my rig.

Tonight it's Gumby, MJ2 and primes 👍🏼

This is the first track that came on after pressing "shuffle".  It's a corker:


----------



## M-83

@Wes S  I'm now digging"Come Together" by Spiritualized 😀

My rig really highlights how well recorded all of their records are. I never really appreciated it until now.


----------



## Wes S

M-83 said:


> Ah at last some chill out time with my rig.
> 
> Tonight it's Gumby, MJ2 and primes 👍🏼
> 
> This is the first track that came on after pressing "shuffle".  It's a corker:



The A. Prime was my first high-end headphone and I had a blast with mine when I owned it.  Still to this day, they are the most comfortable pair of headphones I have ever owned.  That suede strap, and pillows for ear pads are perfection.

Happy Listening my friend!  I just got home and fired up my rig, and it's time for some fun.  Let the 3 day weekend begin.


----------



## Wes S

M-83 said:


> @Wes S  I'm now digging"Come Together" by Spiritualized 😀
> 
> My rig really highlights how well recorded all of their records are. I never really appreciated it until now.


Nice!  I am gonna give that a listen right now.


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> OK.  Straight from my bottle labels...


OK. Straight from this bottle label…


----------



## M-83

@jonathan c I've bought Gjallarhorn GH50 (not JM edition) and it sounds arrive tomorrow. I also have a balanced cable on order with a ten day ETA. 

I decided to return LCD-X to Amazon because I couldn't really use it as I originally intended (I need to use closed back more often than open) and I thought the horn will be a good compromise. 

I have ZMF Vérité Open to listen to when the opportunity presents (if I stay up later than my wife lol).


----------



## M-83

Wes S said:


> Nice!  I am gonna give that a listen right now.


Awesome, enjoy!


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> @jonathan c I've bought Gjallarhorn GH50 (not JM edition) and it sounds arrive tomorrow. I also have a balanced cable on order with a ten day ETA.
> 
> I decided to return LCD-X to Amazon because I couldn't really use it as I originally intended (I need to use closed back more often than open) and I thought the horn will be a good compromise.
> 
> I have ZMF Vérité Open to listen to when the opportunity presents (if I stay up later than my wife lol).


The Gjallarhorn will give you very good, deep, tensile, tactile bass if you have a good earcup seal. Again, @John Massaria has discussed the gradual shaping of the “cantilever” to increase the earcup clamp. I have found the detail retrieval, dynamic range, and expressiveness of the JM Edition to be outstanding. I expect the same from the GH50. The JM is a “tuning” of the GH, stated in skeletal terms.


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> OK. Straight from this bottle label…


Very nice.

This is my favourite rum:


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> The Gjallarhorn will give you very good, deep, tensile, tactile bass if you have a good earcup seal. Again, @John Massaria has discussed the gradual shaping of the “cantilever” to increase the earcup clamp. I have found the detail retrieval, dynamic range, and expressiveness of the JM Edition to be outstanding. I expect the same from the GH50. The JM is a “tuning” of the GH, stated in skeletal terms.


Yes I've been chatting with a few horn owners and I think it will be an interesting listen. I've looked up the ear cup clamp adjustment to get a good seal. I'll be sure to make sure I optimise the seal as much as I can. Thx for the advice.


----------



## M-83

My "spare" set of Brimar CV4033 1957 Footscray tubes arrived today.  I will need to orider another set of adapters then I can try them in my Feliks Echo.


----------



## TK16

@Wes S I bought the CV455 on your recommendation, I expect hourly updates on the burn in. If 1 hour isn't doable just make it every 60 minutes.  😀


----------



## jonathan c (Jul 8, 2021)

M-83 said:


> Yes I've been chatting with a few horn owners and I think it will be an interesting listen. I've looked up the ear cup clamp adjustment to get a good seal. I'll be sure to make sure I optimise the seal as much as I can. Thx for the advice.


~ Two things to keep in mind about the earcup clamp.
~ First, you can bend the metal cantilevers _gradually at a number of points_ rather than sharply at one point. This can be done over time if necessary. This avoids crimps in the metal bands.
~ Second, the objective is: when holding the headphones upright with the earpads vertically aligned, the earpads should touch / almost touch each other. Thus, a snug fit when you put them on.
~ The GH50 will really allow your gear upstream to strut their stuff.


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> Two things to keep in mind about the earcup clamp. First, you can bend the metal cantilevers _gradually at a number of points_ rather than sharply at one point. This can be done over time if necessary. This avoids crimps in the metal bands. Second, the objective is: when holding the headphones upright with the earpads vertically aligned, the earpads should touch / almost touch each other. Thus, a snug fit when you put them on.


Okay that's great info thank you. Will take it steady and be careful as I adjust.


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> @Wes S I bought the CV455 on your recommendation, I expect hourly updates on the burn in. If 1 hour isn't doable just make it every 60 minutes time I ‘private message’ you 😆.


FTFY….[Reg. TM; © bcowen: 2021]


----------



## Wes S (Jul 8, 2021)

TK16 said:


> @Wes S I bought the CV455 on your recommendation, I expect hourly updates on the burn in. If 1 hour isn't doable just make it every 60 minutes.  😀


Nice man!  First update - The CV455 has bit better treble extension, than the CV4033 in either version.  The clarity and micro detail is insane, and I am hearing stuff in my test tracks I have never noticed before.  I even had one of my favorite songs that I have listened to multiple times a day for years, make me keep looking over my shoulder, turning around,  and turning down the volume because I thought I heard someone making noise behind me.  Live music is killer with this tube!  More to come . . .


----------



## Wes S

One more thing that is really sticking out while listening, is that it feels like my hearing just got better, or I just got better at picking up little details and nuances the second I started using this tube.   The transparency is top notch, and it's kind of spooky feeling, hearing so far into the recording.  Back to the music/burn in . . .


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 8, 2021)

Wes S said:


> One more thing that is really sticking out while listening, is that it feels like my hearing just got better, or I just got better at picking up little details and nuances the second I started using this tube.   The transparency is top notch, and it's kind of spooky feeling, hearing so far into the recording.  Back to the music/burn in . . .


Keep the updates coming bro because I owe my third Holy Grail purchase in about the last 2 weeks solely to YOU.
(Wow, it feels weird not to be blaming/thanking Sammy !) 
BTW anybody looking for a pair of Footscray CV4033 O-getters cheap???  PM me.

EDIT:  Wes, are you noticing any better balance between the vocals and the instrumentation on the 455's as compared to the 4033's?  I love the vocals on the 4033 Squares but I agree with you that, in a way, it can often be, at least minimally, at the expense of the accompanying instruments.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Keep the updates coming bro because I owe my third Holy Grail purchase in about the last 2 weeks solely to YOU.
> (Wow, it feels weird not to be blaming/thanking Sammy !)
> BTW anybody looking for a pair of Footscray CV4033 O-getters cheap???  PM me.


I'm on my 4th pair of holy grails myself in the last 6 weeks myself. Think 6 for the year so far.


----------



## ksorota

billerb1 said:


> Keep the updates coming bro because I owe my third Holy Grail purchase in about the last 2 weeks solely to YOU.
> (Wow, it feels weird not to be blaming/thanking Sammy !)
> BTW anybody looking for a pair of Footscray CV4033 O-getters cheap???  PM me.
> 
> EDIT:  Wes, are you noticing any better balance between the vocals and the instrumentation on the 455's as compared to the 4033's?  I love the vocals on the 4033 Squares but I agree with you that, in a way, it can often be, at least minimally, at the expense of the accompanying instruments.



How the once  mighty have fallen!


----------



## Wes S

billerb1 said:


> Keep the updates coming bro because I owe my third Holy Grail purchase in about the last 2 weeks solely to YOU.
> (Wow, it feels weird not to be blaming/thanking Sammy !)
> BTW anybody looking for a pair of Footscray CV4033 O-getters cheap???  PM me.
> 
> EDIT:  Wes, are you noticing any better balance between the vocals and the instrumentation on the 455's as compared to the 4033's?  I love the vocals on the 4033 Squares but I agree with you that, in a way, it can often be, at least minimally, at the expense of the accompanying instruments.


LOL!  I am actually noticing just that, with better balance between the vocals and instrumentation, compared to the CV4033's.  I think this is also helping me pick up on more of the micro details.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I'm on my 4th pair of holy grails myself in the last 6 weeks myself. Think 6 for the year so far.


Good grief.  The holy grail is a singular entity.   

I think I'm just gonna sit back and watch for the next six months.  Stocking up on popcorn now.  Perhaps by then you guys will land on something like the 1949 horseshoe getter that will be the unanimously hailed single and most holiest of grails.  _Then_ I'll buy some (more).


----------



## billerb1

Wes S said:


> LOL!  I am actually noticing just that, with better balance between the vocals and instrumentation, compared to the CV4033's.  I think this is also helping me pick up on more of the micro details.


Me likey.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well folks I have some cv455 on the way. Of course the Footscray and I couldn't resist the mystery tube.
The  Eindhoven/Venolanda 




😂
I'm totally done spending money on tubes! I swear! (🤭)


----------



## Guidostrunk




----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Well folks I have some cv455 on the way. Of course the Footscray and I couldn't resist the mystery tube.
> The  Eindhoven/Venolanda
> 
> 😂
> I'm totally done spending money on tubes! I swear! (🤭)


Look I'll pay ya $$ to give an honest review of these as long as it's a negative review!


----------



## JoeyB

Wes S said:


> So, I have put 20 hours on the CV455 Footscray Square Getter 56', and as it stands right now here is how I rank the 3 Triple Mica Footscray's.  This ranking is based off the level of clarity/transparency and ability to produce nuance/micro details.
> 
> 1.  CV455 Square Getter 56'
> 2.  CV4033 Square Getter 56'
> ...


I'm really curious what you wind up thinking. I bought the last 4033 squares AFTER I already had 2 sets of O's and a set of 455's, and they cost me double the price of the 455. I only burned in the 455 for 50 hrs but i didn't get holographic sound I got from the 4033, granted I'm still waiting on my Gumby I ordered 9 weeks ago so IDK if that was a relevant test. My 455's are from the 1st week of Feb '56 so built right after yours


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> Look I'll pay ya $$ to give an honest review of these as long as it's a negative review!


🤣


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 8, 2021)

JoeyB said:


> I'm really curious what you wind up thinking. I bought the last 4033 squares AFTER I already had 2 sets of O's and a set of 455's, and they cost me double the price of the 455. I only burned in the 455 for 50 hrs but i didn't get holographic sound I got from the 4033, granted I'm still waiting on my Gumby I ordered 9 weeks ago so IDK if that was a relevant test. My 455's are from the 1st week of Feb '56 so built right after yours


Me no likey.  Well, hell, maybe I (me) do.  I have ALL of them so how can I lose ???


----------



## Ripper2860

I'm done.  Seriously.  No more after these CV455 roll in.  Nope.  None.    


(At least for the next 90 days)


----------



## Wes S (Jul 9, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Well folks I have some cv455 on the way. Of course the Footscray and I couldn't resist the mystery tube.
> The  Eindhoven/Venolanda
> 
> 😂
> I'm totally done spending money on tubes! I swear! (🤭)


Heck yeah Sam! Thanks for taking the chance!  I am so glad you bought a set of those, and I was going to buy a pair yesterday but backed out once again.  That is the tube I have been interested in the most for a good long while.  I can't wait to hear your thoughts on those!  I am thinking they are gonna be on the warm/slow side, but that is just my guess, at least that's what I am hoping so I don't have to buy a couple pairs.


----------



## Wes S

Stayed tuned in folks as I am about to roll in the CV4033 FSG, shortly after this morning's listening session with the CV455 FSG.


----------



## billerb1

WELL ????


----------



## Wes S

billerb1 said:


> WELL ????


Sorry bro!  I had to go run a quick errand, so the listening got a bit delayed.    I am listening now though as I type this to the CV455 that has been cooking all night long, and will switch to the CV4033 shortly.  Hang tight man, not much longer.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Sorry bro!  I had to go run a quick errand, so the listening got a bit delayed.    I am listening now though as I type this to the CV455 that has been cooking all night long, and will switch to the CV4033 shortly.  Hang tight man, not much longer.


Me better likey the comparison as I bought 3 sets!


----------



## billerb1

LOL.  Again, when all is said and done, this will be Sammy's fault.  He does this schiit on purpose.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Sorry bro!  I had to go run a quick errand, so the listening got a bit delayed.


What?!?!?  Where are your priorities?  I'm very disappointed.  And I can't even blame it on @TK16 this time.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> LOL.  Again, when all is said and done, this will be Sammy's fault.  He does this schiit on purpose.


Truth! The Eleventh Commandment says so.
It is better to blame others rather blaming thyself.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Truth! The Eleventh Commandment says so.
> It is better to blame others rather blaming thyself.


LOL!  And don't forget the pertinent Eleventh Commandment subparagraphs:

a) Never do yourself what you can get someone to do for you.
b) Never do today what can be done tomorrow. Or the day after. Or later.

And sub-sub paragraph to a):  Hurry up @Wes S !


----------



## Wes S

I am trying to finish up the session with the CV455, and it is hard to stop!  This tube just sounds so right!  I can hear everything without even trying to listen for it.  Ok, once this song is over I am turning off the amp, waiting 40 minutes for it to cool down, and then the CV4033 FSG is going in the amp.

Be back in a bit. . .


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I am trying to finish up the session with the CV455, and it is hard to stop!  This tube just sounds so right!  I can hear everything without even trying to listen for it.  Ok, once this song is over I am turning off the amp, waiting 40 minutes for it to cool down, and then the CV4033 FSG is going in the amp.
> 
> Be back in a bit. . .


40 minutes completely unacceptable, make it 2,400`seconds. 😄


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Me better likey the comparison as I bought 3 sets!


3 sets!  Dude I hope I wasn't wrong. . .


----------



## Guidostrunk

billerb1 said:


> LOL.  Again, when all is said and done, this will be Sammy's fault.  He does this schiit on purpose.


🤣


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> 3 sets!  Dude I hope I wasn't wrong. . .


Not "sure" where you got 3 sets from? lol I haven't bought multiple sets without hearing the tubes since the L and M Ericcson 2C51. Man that was a huge mistake.


----------



## Rowethren

billerb1 said:


> LOL.  Again, when all is said and done, this will be Sammy's fault.  He does this schiit on purpose.


I reckon he has stocks in all the tube vendors!


----------



## Wes S (Jul 9, 2021)

That seemed like one of the longest 40 minute waits for a tube to cool down ever!  The CV4033 FSG is fired up and I am listening now.  Right off the bat, they sound very similar, however the CV4033 is just slightly slower, and has a bit more lower mids bloom and a bit less clarity.  Overall though they are very very close.  More to come, but so far I can honestly say the CV455 is every bit as good. . .


----------



## Wes S (Jul 9, 2021)

Man this is actually quite a tough task deciphering the differences between these 2 tubes!  The CV4033 is very very good, it is just not quite as engaging as the CV455 to me though.  The CV4033 seems just a bit slower, congested, bloomier in the lower mids, forward in the vocals, less clear overall, with a bit less impact as well, but I can still hear lots of nuance and micro details.  Honestly, these tubes are definitely different, but are also so very close you can't go wrong with either one, and depending on the rest of the chain, I could see some maybe preferring one or the other.  As for myself, I prefer the CV455, and it's going back in the amp now.    I feel like the CV455 is a bit cleaner, a bit less forward/congested, a bit more open sounding, and impactful, and with all this it sounds more lifelike and keeps me more engaged.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> That seemed like one of the longest 40 minute waits for a tube to cool down ever!  The CV4033 FSG is fired up and I am listening now.  Right off the bat, they sound very similar, however the CV4033 is just slightly slower, and has a bit more lower mids bloom and a bit less clarity.  Overall though they are very very close.  More to come, but so far I can honestly say the CV455 is every bit as good. . .


40 minutes? * FORTY* minutes?  Geeeez man....


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> 40 minutes? * FORTY* minutes?  Geeeez man....


That reminds me of the 12th Commandment. 
Thou shalt wait no longer than 39 minutes to remove tubes.


----------



## Wes S

I just like to wait until the tube is cold, before touching it.  I know it might be overkill, but I would kill myself if I damaged my precious tubes.  Out of curiosity, how long does everyone wait?


----------



## Ripper2860

40 seconds, here.  I have no patience.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> I just like to wait until the tube is cold, before touching it.  I know it might be overkill, but I would kill myself if I damaged my precious tubes.  Out of curiosity, how long does everyone wait?


Until the risk is first degree burns only.


----------



## TK16

Under a minute, got used to the pain using a tester.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 9, 2021)

bcowen said:


> Until the risk is first degree burns only.



I thought you cooled your tubes down by shooting a blast of air from an inverted aerosol duster can.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> I thought you cooled your tubes down by shooting a steady blast of air from an inverted aerosol duster can.


I used to, but then discovered greater benefit by doing that up my nose.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Rowethren said:


> I reckon he has stocks in all the tube vendors!


Too bad I wasn't smart enough to stop spending and collect my dividends 😂


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> I just like to wait until the tube is cold, before touching it.  I know it might be overkill, but I would kill myself if I damaged my precious tubes.  Out of curiosity, how long does everyone wait?


Literally as soon as the lights go out in the tube. My amp is off no longer than 2 minutes 😂


----------



## Wes S (Jul 9, 2021)

LOL!  But, seriously how long do ya'll wait?    I  guess I am definitely over killing it, but that's just part of my OCD, and yes I really do have it.


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> I used to, but then discovered greater benefit by doing that up my nose.


Hahahahaha!


----------



## Ripper2860

bcowen said:


> I used to, but then discovered greater benefit by doing that up my nose.


That explains a lot!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> LOL!  But, seriously how long do ya'll wait?


Less than 30 seconds to get the tubes out. Put the others in and amp is right back on. I'll wait about 10 minutes for the tube to get to temp before I listen.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Less than 30 seconds to get the tubes out. Put the others in and amp is right back on. I'll wait about 10 minutes for the tube to get to temp before I listen.


Damn, I have been waisting precious listening time for nothing.  Thanks bro!


----------



## Ripper2860

I wait until the power light on my amp goes out as that typically means that any residual power has dissipated.  Then I yank those bad boys out and throw the next tube in.  Depending on the amp, I'm faster than an F1 pit crew changing tires on a race car.


----------



## Wes S

I always thought I could make the tube microphonic by pulling it to early while it is still hot (really just warm).  So, that's why I waited so long.  Good to know, that was all just in my head!


----------



## Wes S

So no need to wait, then back in goes the CV455, and all will be right with the world in about 10 minutes.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 9, 2021)

I think when I first got into tubes it was actually something I either read or heard from Kevin Deal (Upscale Audio), about needing to wait at least 10-15 minutes before touching or changing a tube.  Of course my OCD needed to double that amount of time just to be sure, and I can only imagine how many hours I spent over the years waiting for nothing.


----------



## Wes S

Sure makes comparing tubes a bit easier, when I don't have a 40 minute gap between listening to them!  Thanks for teaching this old dog a new trick fellas!


----------



## Wes S (Jul 9, 2021)

I am rocking the CV455 right now, and it really does have a bit more magic than the CV4033.  It is so hard to pinpoint all the differences, but there is a bit more clarity and air.   The sound is a bit tighter and the engagement factor is in full effect with the CV455, that I did not get with the CV4033, and I am really looking forward to hear what ya'll think when you get yours.


----------



## billerb1

Wes S said:


> Man this is actually quite a tough task deciphering the differences between these 2 tubes!  The CV4033 is very very good, it is just not quite as engaging as the CV455 to me though.  The CV4033 seems just a bit slower, congested, bloomier in the lower mids, forward in the vocals, less clear overall, with a bit less impactful too, but I can still hear lots of nuance and micro details.  Honestly, these tubes are definitely different, but are also so very close you can't go wrong with either one, and depending on the rest of the chain, I could see some maybe preferring one or the other.  As for myself, I prefer the CV455, and it's going back in the amp now.    I feel like the CV455 is a bit cleaner, a bit less forward/congested, a bit more open sounding, and impactful, and with all this it sounds more lifelike and keeps me more engaged.


Really appreciate the comparison Wes as I await delivery of my pair of 455's...and it's really hitting the nail on the head for me.  Engagement is the bottom line of all bottom lines when you get down to it.  If there was one reason why I hung so many years with the Tele ECC801S's in my chain it was because of _consistency and depth of engagement_.  I love my CV4033 Squares, don't get me wrong.  There is not one thing I could point to that the Teles do performance-wise that really can compete with the 4033's...but I don't find myself as enraptured and truly engaged in the music for as long a periods of time for some reason, at least so far.  I am absolutely AMAZED at what the 4033's deliver but so far that hasn't connected all the dots that draws me as closely to the music as I want to be...and as often as the Tele ECC801S's did.  So your review has me excited and cautiously hopeful that the 455's will be the best of both worlds...the technical brilliance (and beyond !) of the 4033 Squares and the "still listening at 3:00am" mystique of the Teles.  
Thanks again, Wes, for your takes on these 2 fantastic tubes.  It can be very difficult to explain _why_ you're engaged but it's certainly not hard to know when you _are.  _Can't wait  to see what I think of them in my chain.

(PS - And in no way is this meant to be an endorsement of the Telefunken ECC801S's.  I've never heard that they have much synergy with the MJ2.)


----------



## billerb1

Haha, your last post apparently went on while I was writing mine.  Think we're saying the same thing.
Cheers !!!


----------



## Wes S

billerb1 said:


> Haha, your last post apparently went on while I was writing mine.  Think we're saying the same thing.
> Cheers !!!


----------



## M-83

Just sat down for a first listen to the Kennerton Gjallarhorn.... It's very impressive. Think I may have found a keeper but it's still early days.

Waiting on a balanced cable to arrive so I can use it with MJ2. Currently using Gumby and Echo.

Just blissed out to this beautiful track:


----------



## bcowen

** Warning**  Tube Porn from the cheap seats:

Does it make sense to use a $105 tube in a $150 amp?  Of course it does!!


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> ** Warning**  Tube Porn from the cheap seats:
> 
> Does it make sense to use a $105 tube in a $150 amp?  Of course it does!!


Very excessive bro! 50% max budget vs amp cost. I got a pair of 1955 Heerlen ECC82 and that is in a $700 amp. Not excessive IMHO. 🙂


----------



## Ripper2860

You really need to lay off of the glue sniffing and aerosol can huffing, Bill.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> You really need to lay off of the glue sniffing and aerosol can huffing, Bill.


Why?


----------



## M-83

An epic track :



The more I listen to Gjallarhorn the more I appreciate the genius that went into creating it. 

If it's as good or better with MJ2 as it is with Feliks Echo then Gjallarhorn will be my daily driver.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Very excessive bro! 50% max budget vs amp cost. I got a pair of 1955 Heerlen ECC82 and that is in a $700 amp. Not excessive IMHO. 🙂


LOL!  Well, not many options here to listen to the Footscray.  It doesn't get along with the Incubus and the Darkvoice is in pieces waiting on motivation to put it back together.  I have an Aune T1 in the closet, but I doubt even the Footscray can help _that_. So the Vali gets the honors, and I will say the Footscray sounds marvelous in it!

Now if you go spoutin' logic at me, I'll have to kindly remind you this is audio.    

@Ripper2860 : be interested to know if yours play in the Incubus once you get them.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> LOL!  Well, not many options here to listen to the Footscray.  It doesn't get along with the Incubus and the Darkvoice is in pieces waiting on motivation to put it back together.  I have an Aune T1 in the closet, but I doubt even the Footscray can help _that_. So the Vali gets the honors, and I will say the Footscray sounds marvelous in it!
> 
> Now if you go spoutin' logic at me, I'll have to kindly remind you this is audio.
> 
> @Ripper2860 : be interested to know if yours play in the Incubus once you get them.


Was really surprised by the CV4033 myself. The next step is apparently the Footscray CV455 square getter, just bought a pair yesterday. About $62 a tube.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AT7-CV45...a-395d-4a9d-8e50-9e0f9c8c75bf&redirect=mobile


----------



## M-83

bcowen said:


> Now if you go spoutin' logic at me, I'll have to kindly remind you this is audio.


Gumby + MJ2 + Footscray + HeadFi 

>

Topping + ASR + Amir


----------



## DougD

TK16 said:


> I'm on my 4th pair of holy grails myself in the last 6 weeks myself. Think 6 for the year so far.





bcowen said:


> Good grief.  The holy grail is a singular entity.
> 
> I think I'm just gonna sit back and watch for the next six months.  Stocking up on popcorn now.  Perhaps by then you guys will land on something like the 1949 horseshoe getter that will be the unanimously hailed single and most holiest of grails.  _Then_ I'll buy some (more).



The REAL reason Schiit had to kill the Mjolnir 2 is becoming obvious. 

Purchasers became obsessed with finding and purchasing Holy Grail Toobs, and had no time or money for any subsequent Schiit purchases.

Sell an MJ2 to someone who loves it, and (perversely) lose a customer for life.

The 2023 Limited Edition Mjolnir Legacy Revival Model ... you heard it here first ... will come with an automatic subscription to purchase the v1 of all subsequent Schiit products for the next five years, as a cure for this problem. (Opt-out will be available, but the toob-obsessed with be so pre-occupied that they will miss the deadlines.)


----------



## Guidostrunk

M-83 said:


> Gumby + MJ2 + Footscray + HeadFi
> 
> >
> 
> Topping + ASR + Amir


Agreed! I'm seriously not into two cats fighting on top of my head 😂


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Agreed! I'm seriously not into two cats fighting on top of my head 😂


"two cats fighting on top of my head"  I have never heard that before, but I love it and it really paints a picture!


----------



## Wes S (Jul 9, 2021)

It's time for the Hamburg 6201 TMPWDG.  Let's see if the CV455 can hang. . .


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> It's time for the Hamburg 6201 TMPWDG.  Let's see if the CV455 can hang. . .


Took me a minute to figure out "TMPWDG"
My tube made its way to NYC from Eastern Europe.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Took me a minute to figure out "TMPWDG"
> My tube made its way to NYC from Eastern Europe.


Good, so wha da f does it mean?


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Good, so wha da f does it mean?


Triple Mica Pinched Waist D-getter. TMPWDG.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Triple Mica Pinched Waist D-getter. TMPWDG.


Oh.  Whew.  I thought it meant This Matched Pair Was Dead, G'd it.


----------



## Wes S

The CV455 and 6201 are in the same league and actually sound damn near the same.  I think I hear a bit more micro detail and nuance with the CV455, but the vocals are a bit more articulate with the 6201, other than that they are neck and neck.  The stage presentations are very similar as well.  This is awesome, as the 6201 is priced crazy high and super hard to find.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Triple Mica Pinched Waist D-getter. TMPWDG.


How could I be so stupid ???


----------



## billerb1

Wes S said:


> The CV455 and 6201 are in the same league and actually sound damn near the same.  I think I hear a bit more micro detail and nuance with the CV455, but the vocals are a bit more articulate with the 6201, other than that they are neck and neck.  The stage presentations are very similar as well.  This is awesome, as the 6201 is priced crazy high and super hard to find.


Geezzz how much less articulate then are the vocals on the 455's when compared to the 4033 Squares.  I can't imagine vocals much more articulate than they are on the 4033's.  And the 6201's are better than those ?  You're causing me to question my existence Wes.


----------



## Wes S

billerb1 said:


> Geezzz how much less articulate then are the vocals on the 455's when compared to the 4033 Squares.  I can't imagine vocals much more articulate than they are on the 4033's.  And the 6201's are better than those ?  You're causing me to question my existence Wes.


LOL!  There is something magical with way the vocals linger just a bit and then trail off with the 6201 that lets me hear every little nuance in the singers voice, that I don't hear with any other tube.  The CV455's hang with the 6201 in the stage presentation, and I think are actually the better tube with more micro detail and nuance overall.  The impact and bass is pretty much the same to, where you can feel the music.  The CV455 is a killer tube and will be my daily driver going forward and the 6201 will come out every now and then, but I won't be missing a thing while I am using the CV455.

 I really can't wait for you to hear the CV455 bro.


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 9, 2021)

Wes S said:


> LOL!  There is something magical with way the vocals linger just a bit and then trail off with the 6201 that lets me hear every little nuance in the singers voice, that I don't hear with any other tube.  The CV455's hang with the 6201 in the stage presentation, and I think are actually the better tube with more micro detail and nuance overall.  The impact and bass is pretty much the same to, where you can feel the music.  The CV455 is a killer tube and will be my daily driver going forward and the 6201 will come out every now and then, but I won't be missing a thing while I am using the CV455.
> 
> I really can't wait for you to hear the CV455 bro.


Thank you.  I am now at peace.  Until tomorrow.  (Can't wait to hear 'em bro.)

But to further clarify, how do the 455's and 4033's compare on vocals to your ears?  They remain truly amazing to my ears on the 4033 Squares...maybe a bit over-emphasized as we've mentioned before but magical nonetheless.  Do the 455's retain at least a large chunk of that magic ??


----------



## Wes S (Jul 10, 2021)

billerb1 said:


> Thank you.  I am now at peace.  Until tomorrow.  (Can't wait to hear 'em bro.)
> 
> But to further clarify, how do the 455's and 4033's compare on vocals to your ears?  They remain truly amazing to my ears on the 4033 Squares...maybe a bit over-emphasized as we've mentioned before but magical nonetheless.  Do the 455's retain at least a large chunk of that magic ??


The CV455 retain all of the magic of the CV4033 Squares with the vocals and in fact have a bit more in my opinion.  They are very close, but I feel like the CV455 has a bit more clarity and space, as they are maybe not quite as in your face ("over-emphasized"), and they actually sound a bit more lifelike and engaging on the CV455 as well.  It is really hard to pin point the differences and at times they sound quite similar, but the more I listen the CV455 pulls ahead everytime and just sounds more lifelike and engaging in the vocals, and the rest of the spectrum as well.  I truly feel the CV455 FSG 56' is a more magical tube than the CV4033 FSG 56', in all aspects.


----------



## billerb1

Just what I wanted to hear.  Thank you sir.


----------



## Wes S

Hey fellas,

I am going to be listing my pair of Footscray CV4033 Triple Mica Square Getters 56' latter today and figured I would give my tube rolling buddies first crack at them.  I prefer the CV455, and would like to recoup most of the money I spent on the CV4033, so here is a golden opportunity.

I will be listing the pair for $185 with PayPal fees and FedEx 2nd day insured shipping included.  I will only sell within U.S., as I don't want to hassle with international delays.






Hit me up if you are interested. 

Happy Saturday!


----------



## Wes S

I have been ab'ing with the Hamburg 6201 PWTMDG and CV455 FSG all morning, and these tubes really are neck and neck.  They easily trade blows with each other, and the CV455 is a bit more forward, and impactful, while the 6201 has a bit more space and a tiny bit less impact.  They both produce detail and nuance like no other, and have the engagement factor in full effect, just with different stage presentations.  Another thing of note that keeps jumping out at me this morning, is how quiet both of these tubes are, as in pitch black background and I can't even tell my amp is on until I look over at it.  Anyways I just wanted to share those few bits, as I think the CV455 FSG is a very special tube that is trading blows with a tube (6201) I did not think could be touched.  It's been said before and I will say it again, how amazing is it that the CV455 FSG is so affordable and available!  I am so excited and anxious for you guys to get your CV455's and share what you think.  

Happy Listening my friends!


----------



## Wes S

Here is a bad ass song for any of the Footscray's and especially the CV455 FSG!  Check it out, and get ready to get lost in the waves. . .


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Hey fellas,
> 
> I am going to be listing my pair of Footscray CV4033 Triple Mica Square Getters 56' latter today and figured I would give my tube rolling buddies first crack at them.  I prefer the CV455, and would like to recoup most of the money I spent on the CV4033, so here is a golden opportunity.
> 
> ...


Wish you were selling a month ago. Excellent price BTW. They are listed at $262 SG out of stock.


----------



## TK16

My PW D getter 6201 1958 single arriving today. I'll be briefly running it with a 1959 PW dual post O getter.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> My PW D getter 6201 1958 single arriving today. I'll be briefly running it with a 1959 PW dual post O getter.


Nice!  Those are 2 tubes I would love to compare, and I may pick up an O soon just to see if it can hang with the D.


----------



## Rowethren

A box from Langrex has arrived! Delivery person threw it over the side gate, it looks like it has survived but I haven't tested them yet.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Nice!  Those are 2 tubes I would love to compare, and I may pick up an O soon just to see if it can hang with the D.


The D getter tests for schiit but sounds heavenly the brief time in the MJ2. Tube on the left is a vg0 59 and right is the D getter df1 58.


----------



## Rowethren

Haven't tested them yet but they are both from 1956 one is January and the other is August. Shame they aren't matching dates, my poor OCD!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Wes S said:


> Hey fellas,
> 
> I am going to be listing my pair of Footscray CV4033 Triple Mica Square Getters 56' latter today and figured I would give my tube rolling buddies first crack at them.  I prefer the CV455, and would like to recoup most of the money I spent on the CV4033, so here is a golden opportunity.
> 
> ...


I'm tempted...6201 Triple mica have been in my MJ2 for the past 18 months...


----------



## Wes S (Jul 11, 2021)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> I'm tempted...6201 Triple mica have been in my MJ2 for the past 18 months...


My CV4033 Square Getters have been sold, so no more temptation from me or well maybe a bit more at the end of this post.    The 6201 Triple Mica Pinched Waist D Getter is my number 1 tube, so I can see why you have been content for the past 18 months. An insanely good tube no doubt, however this tube can hang https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/12at7-cv455-kb-fb-brimar-rare-triple-mica-1956-nos-valve-tube/


----------



## billerb1

Rowethren said:


> Haven't tested them yet but they are both from 1956 one is January and the other is August. Shame they aren't matching dates, my poor OCD!


Laughed out loud at the 'non-matching dates/OCD' comment.  Totally get it.  Thanks for giving me something else to worry about while I wait for mine to arrive.  Hey, how do they sound so far ????


----------



## Rowethren

billerb1 said:


> Laughed out loud at the 'non-matching dates/OCD' comment.  Totally get it.  Thanks for giving me something else to worry about while I wait for mine to arrive.  Hey, how do they sound so far ????


We could do a tube exchange so people can date match their CV455s... 

I haven't had a chance to listen to them yet, hopefully I will be able to listen to them early next week.


----------



## TK16

@bcowen saw this and thought you might appreciate this. Price is a bit high if it goes for the opening bid. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AU7-GE-D-Getter-10-lot-Tested-And-Matched/313598122428
No need for a thank you. 😄


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> @bcowen saw this and thought you might appreciate this. Price is a bit high if it goes for the opening bid.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/12AU7-GE-D-Getter-10-lot-Tested-And-Matched/313598122428
> No need for a thank you. 😄


LOL!  Too bad Ebay has no provisions for a seller to pay a buyer to take something.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> LOL!  Too bad Ebay has no provisions for a seller to pay a buyer to take something.


I hear that, as long as they go from the mailbox to the garbage. I'm down for that.


----------



## ksorota

So GE makes terrible tubes and terrible appliances...how is it the air force uses them for turbines, yikes!


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

ksorota said:


> So GE makes terrible tubes and terrible appliances...how is it the air force uses them for turbines, yikes!


To be fair, they weren't made to drive esoteric headphone amps playing hi-res audio


----------



## Guidostrunk

AuditoryCanvas said:


> To be fair, they weren't made to drive esoteric headphone amps playing hi-res audio


😂😂😂


----------



## bcowen

ksorota said:


> So GE makes terrible tubes and terrible appliances...how is it the air force uses them for turbines, yikes!


The engineers probably overruled the bean counters with aviation products.  Hopefully.


----------



## ksorota

bcowen said:


> The engineers probably overruled the bean counters with aviation products.  Hopefully.



Hopefully indeed!!!

Or the tubes are so overengineered that they do their job and that’s it…no magic infused!


----------



## billerb1

It's all about the magic !


----------



## TK16

I bought my CV455 pair from Langrex website, you guys get a shipping notification? Vaguely remember them shipping without any notification a few years ago.


----------



## ksorota

TK16 said:


> I bought my CV455 pair from Langrex website, you guys get a shipping notification? Vaguely remember them shipping without any notification a few years ago.



I got a paypal notification that it was shipped. But no tracking number. 

Took about a week and a a half to arrive in Massachusetts.


----------



## Ripper2860

Ditto above. No tracking but shipping confirmation received.


----------



## Rowethren

TK16 said:


> I bought my CV455 pair from Langrex website, you guys get a shipping notification? Vaguely remember them shipping without any notification a few years ago.


I didn't get a shipping notification or tracking...


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 12, 2021)

Here's my email trail Saturday with Dan at Langrex...first is at the bottom:

​
​
New message from: yitry (69,113
	

)​
We have been selling a lot recently so they are popular.

Kind Regards
Dan​​
​




​


​
​
Your previous message​
​
Thanks, Dan. Really looking forward to hearing them in my Woo WA2.
I've heard great things about this tube.
Bill​




​
​
yitry:​
Hi
Your package was sent on time with Royal Mail international. This service does not include tracking however it should be with you soon.
Regards
Dan​



​
​
Your previous message​
​
What is my tracking information? Can't find it. Thank you.
Bill​


----------



## billerb1

Hoping to hear some more 4055 Squares vs 455's comparisons before mine arrive.  Who's gotten delivery on the 455's already?


----------



## Wes S

billerb1 said:


> Here's my email trail Saturday with Dan at Langrex...first is at the bottom:
> 
> ​
> ​
> ...


Interesting. . .I did not know you could sell on ebay without providing tracking?  Also, I noticed some of y'all purchased through their eBay store instead directly from Langrex and was curious if you have had better results that way?  I saved a few bucks buying mine direct from the Langrex website, and got tracking for my first order after I asked them for it.  I have not got tracking or asked for it for my latest order.


----------



## Rowethren

Finally got them in warming up. I do think they look nicer without the black base and, as we all know, looks are everything when it comes to audio!


----------



## billerb1

Rowethren said:


> Finally got them in warming up. I do think they look nicer without the black base and, as we all know, looks are everything when it comes to audio!


No further questions Your Honor.


----------



## Rowethren

On a non tube related note, what are peoples opinions on high vs low gain? 

I tend to find high gain his a bit hot in the volume depart so normally use low gain. Generally I found high gain a bit warmer and tubey sounding as well (whether that is a good thing or not I will leave for you to decide).


----------



## Wes S

Rowethren said:


> Finally got them in warming up. I do think they look nicer without the black base and, as we all know, looks are everything when it comes to audio!


Heck yes!  I am glad there will be another opinion on the CV455 FSG soon!  I really want to know if I am just crazy, or if this tube is as good as I think it is.


----------



## Rowethren

Wes S said:


> Heck yes!  I am glad there will be another opinion on the CV455 FSG soon!  I really want to know if I am just crazy, or if this tube is as good as I think it is.



I will give my opinion in the next couple of days but I can confirm you are crazy...

On a different note, I just looked up Langrex and they are only a 40 minute drive away! I wonder if they would let me come and choose a date matched pair!


----------



## Wes S

Rowethren said:


> I will give my opinion in the next couple of days but I can confirm you are crazy...
> 
> On a different note, I just looked up Langrex and they are only a 40 minute drive away! I wonder if they would let me come and choose a date matched pair!


LOL! Looking forward to it!


----------



## Lvivske

Wes S said:


> Heck yes!  I am glad there will be another opinion on the CV455 FSG soon!  I really want to know if I am just crazy, or if this tube is as good as I think it is.


I've been taking advice from a crazy person!?


----------



## Wes S

Lvivske said:


> I've been taking advice from a crazy person!?


LOL!  I am crazy 🤪 no doubt.  However, I am blessed with great hearing as well.


----------



## Rowethren

Disappointingly one of them is very noisy


----------



## Lvivske

Wes S said:


> LOL!  I am crazy 🤪 no doubt.  However, I am blessed with great hearing as well.



This is actually helpful, because I blew out my ears last week, can't hear a thing correctly






_Do you have any idea what it's like to drink half a bottle of ketchup?_


----------



## Wes S (Jul 12, 2021)

Rowethren said:


> Disappointingly one of them is very noisy


Bummer man!  Good thing they are so close, and hopefully they get you guiet replacement tube asap!  That's the only bummer with Langrex, as they don't test for noise.  Thank goodness there is a large supply.


----------



## JohnBal

Wes S said:


> Heck yes!  I am glad there will be another opinion on the CV455 FSG soon!  I really want to know if I am just crazy, or if this tube is as good as I think it is.


I am using this in my Lyr 3 and think it sounds great. Compared to all of the 6sn7's I've used - Sylvania ca. 51-53 aka "Bad Boys", Raytheon VT231, Ken-Rad, Tung Sol - I think the au7 and at7 sound better to my ears with my system. More space, slam, extension at both ends of the spectrum. But I agree this 455 is special and I think it's a tone monster too. Just a really nice tube at a very nice price. The best I've used so far.


----------



## billerb1

Rowethren said:


> Disappointingly one of them is very noisy


NOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!  Now you HAVE to go see them.


----------



## Rowethren

Wes S said:


> Bummer man!  Good thing they are so close, and hopefully they get you guiet replacement tube asap!  That's the only bummer with Langrex, as they don't test for noise.  Thank goodness there is a large supply.


Yeah I would have been devastated if it was the last pair. At least I still have my CV4033s! 


billerb1 said:


> NOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!  Now you HAVE to go see them.


It is tempting but I really don't have time to go over there at the moment, pesky life getting in the way of my tubes!!!


----------



## roman410

TK16 said:


> I bought my CV455 pair from Langrex website, you guys get a shipping notification? Vaguely remember them shipping without any notification a few years ago.


I placed order yesterday for pair CV455 tubes thru ebay  and got notification today morning, my order was shipped. No tracking provided.I ask seller for matching january 1956 date codes.
Also ordered adapters from pulse store.
This gonna be my first 12AT7 type tubes.


----------



## TK16

Got an updated best of list. The Footscray drops a bit but highly regarded still.
1. Heerlen 7316 long plate 1958
2. Hamburg ECC82 long plate square getter 1956
3. Hamburg Pinched Waist 6201 1959
4. Brimar Footscray CV4033 1956
5. Heerlen ECC82 45 degree D-getter long plate 1955
6. Brimar Footscray CV4033 1957
7. GEC A2900 2x mica 1971
8. Mullard Mitcham 6201 1964
9. Copenhagen ECC81 45 degree D-getter 1951
10. Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 3x mica
11. HiVac ECC82 square getter
12. Foton 6N3P 1958 3x mica
13. 6922 1958 Heerlen D-getter
14. CCa Heerlen Pinched Waist 1956
15. Mullard Blackburn ECC82 square getter 1957
16. Valvo Hamburg PCC88 Pinched Waist 1957
17. Western Electric 396A 1946/1947
18. CBS 5814a square getter 1958
19. ECC88 Heerlen D-getter 1958
20. Reflektor 6N3P 1958 3x mica
21. Brimar ECC82 square getter 1955


----------



## roman410

Rowethren said:


> On a non tube related note, what are peoples opinions on high vs low gain?
> 
> I tend to find high gain his a bit hot in the volume depart so normally use low gain. Generally I found high gain a bit warmer and tubey sounding as well (whether that is a good thing or not I will leave for you to decide).


It is probably depending on type of used phones, sensitivity impedance and power requirements.
Even my Hifiman HE1000 need power to shine I prefer low gain. It is more natural sounding, on the other site high gain give me slight more dynamics.
My usually listening knob possition it is on 2 o'clock, sometimes I go to full blast especially on low volume live performances when want pick up small ambient details.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 12, 2021)

TK16 said:


> Got an updated best of list. The Footscray drops a bit but highly regarded still.
> 1. Heerlen 7316 long plate 1958
> 2. Hamburg ECC82 long plate square getter 1956
> 3. Hamburg Pinched Waist 6201 1959
> ...


Nice!  There sure were some magical tubes that came out of Hamburg back in the day.


----------



## Rowethren

TK16 said:


> 1. Heerlen 7316 long plate 1958
> 2. Hamburg ECC82 long plate square getter 1956
> 3. Hamburg Pinched Waist 6201 1959


Dare I ask what sort of prices these are?


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 12, 2021)

TK16 said:


> Got an updated best of list. The Footscray drops a bit but highly regarded still.
> 1. Heerlen 7316 long plate 1958
> 2. Hamburg ECC82 long plate square getter 1956
> 3. Hamburg Pinched Waist 6201 1959
> ...


Due to selfish interests, here's hoping the 455's come in and punch the Heerlen 7316 long plates right in the mouth.._.and_ those 2 sissy boys from Hamburg.


----------



## TK16

Rowethren said:


> Dare I ask what sort of prices these are?


The more patient you are the lower the price. I buy a lot of singles winning auctions for decent prices.


----------



## Ripper2860

That's like asking what is a kidney worth.  It's worth whatever folks are willing to pay for it.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Got an updated best of list. The Footscray drops a bit but highly regarded still.
> 1. Heerlen 7316 long plate 1958
> 2. Hamburg ECC82 long plate square getter 1956
> 3. Hamburg Pinched Waist 6201 1959
> ...


Mullard 6201 over the Fotons? You've clearly lost your mind since I've been away


----------



## Ripper2860

And no Tung-Sol 2c51 on the list.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Mullard 6201 over the Fotons? You've clearly lost your mind since I've been away


If you find it please return it to me overnight delivery.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Due to selfish interests, here's hoping the 455's come in and punch the Heerlen 7316 long plates right in the mouth.._.and_ those 2 sissy boys from Hamburg.


Having never heard the 455's, I am uniquely qualified to say they are better than everything.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Having never heard the 455's, I am uniquely qualified to say they are better than everything.


Listening to the CV455 right now, and I agree.      Seriously though, the CV455 just took the number 1 spot on my list.


----------



## Ripper2860

Hear. Hear.  I've already moved them to the top of the list of all driver tubes ever made and I have not even received them yet.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Hear. Hear.  I've already moved them to the top of the list of all driver tubes ever made and I have not even received them yet.


You obviously have not heard the 1851 Mullard ECC765's I just made up. Pre electricity tubes are the best.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 12, 2021)

Oooooh,  pre-electricity 1851s.   Having to power them using a rabbit fur pelt and glass rod to generate the needed static electricity really brings about a personal engagement factor missing with most tubes.  With all other tubes one is strictly a spectator.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Having never heard the 455's, I am uniquely qualified to say they are better than everything.


Without question.  Of all the tubes I've only heard about, these bad boys stand alone on the mountaintop.


----------



## billerb1

Wes S said:


> My CV4033 Square Getters have been sold, so no more temptation from me or well maybe a bit more at the end of this post.    The 6201 Triple Mica Pinched Waist D Getter is my number 1 tube, so I can see why you have been content for the past 18 months. An insanely good tube no doubt, however this tube can hang https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/12at7-cv455-kb-fb-brimar-rare-triple-mica-1956-nos-valve-tube/





Wes S said:


> Listening to the CV455 right now, and I agree.      Seriously though, the CV455 just took the number 1 spot on my list.


Wes, you are killing me.  Absolutely killing me.  Yep, just checked...I'm kilt.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Having never heard the 455's, I am uniquely qualified to say they are better than everything.


Didn't you say your 455's came in ??


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Didn't you say your 455's came in ??


I ordered them about the same time as you.


----------



## billerb1

After cooling a little after my initial euphoria with the 4033 Squares, mostly because they were seeming a bit_ too _upfront, I've had a couple of totally mesmerizing listening sessions with them.  So the way I'm approaching it at this point is that if the 455's can improve on them even a touch, it's all gravy at this point.  Really looking forward to them showing up, as I know quite a few of us are. 
Wes, you know I love ya brother.  Keep those hourly poll numbers coming.


----------



## Lvivske

roman410 said:


> I placed order yesterday for pair CV455 tubes thru ebay  and got notification today morning, my order was shipped. No tracking provided.I ask seller for matching january 1956 date codes.
> Also ordered adapters from pulse store.
> This gonna be my first 12AT7 type tubes.


ditto

apparently a bunch of all all splurged on Sunday within the same hour


----------



## Zurv (Jul 12, 2021)

ok.. i got the mj2 back from being repaired.
I've been playing with both the 3 mica-1957 from pulse  and the CV455 1956 from langrex.
I had a brain fat when i ordered the CV455. For some reason i thought they would work in my Primaluna... so i got a bunch.  (8) What!

both are delightful .. but i'm leaning a bit toward the CV455.. (or am i coming up with a reason to like them because i have 8...)

Also,  i'm using them with a Susvara which picks up less tube goodness than other headphones. I'll switch over to the focal later.
(kinda shocked the mj2 can drive the susvara.)






EDIT:
holy cow.. man tubes are great on the Utopia!


----------



## TK16

Zurv said:


> ok.. i got the mj2 back from being repaired.
> I've been playing with both the 3 mica-1957 from pulse  and the CV455 1956 from langrex.
> I had a brain fat when i ordered the CV455. For some reason i thought they would work in my Primaluna... so i got a bunch.  (8) What!
> 
> ...


8? That's harbored bro!


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> 8? That's harbored bro!


8? That is bcowenesque…!


----------



## jonathan c

roman410 said:


> I placed order yesterday for pair CV455 tubes thru ebay  and got notification today morning, my order was shipped. No tracking provided.I ask seller for matching january 1956 date codes.
> Also ordered adapters from pulse store.
> This gonna be my first 12AT7 type tubes.


One hell of a place to start in the 12AT7 arena! Also a hell of a place to finish…! (if you can…)


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> If you find it please return it to me overnight delivery at your ultimate and absolute convenience. Not essential…


----------



## roman410

jonathan c said:


> One hell of a place to start in the 12AT7 arena! Also a hell of a place to finish…! (if you can…)


I hope so, that's my plan! After settled down with my current favourites, I place order only for curiosity😉


----------



## jonathan c

roman410 said:


> I hope so, that's my plan! After settled down with my current favourites, I place order only for curiosity😉


Curiosity has been known to kill wallets as well as cats…


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> Having never heard the 455's, I am uniquely qualified to say they are better than everything.


…that has come before and that is yet to come…I hold this truth to be self-evident and self-perpetuating…


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Listening to the CV455 right now, and I agree.      Seriously though, the CV455 just took the number 1 spot on my list.


Did the CV455 take, with effort, the number 1 spot? Or did it languidly slink and settle, in feline fashion, at the number 1 spot as its rightful and obvious place?


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> You obviously have not heard the 1851 Mullard ECC765's I just made up. Pre electricity tubes are the best.


The best thing about the pre-electricity era would be the ABSENCE of GE !!! 🎉🎊🍾


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jul 13, 2021)

Zurv said:


> ok.. i got the mj2 back from being repaired.
> I've been playing with both the 3 mica-1957 from pulse  and the CV455 1956 from langrex.
> I had a brain fat when i ordered the CV455. For some reason i thought they would work in my Primaluna... so i got a bunch.  (8) What!
> 
> ...


I can take a pair of them if it helps.


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> Did the CV455 take, with effort, the number 1 spot? Or did it languidly slink and settle, in feline fashion, at the number 1 spot as its rightful and obvious place?


It took some effort to dethrone my beloved 6201 PWTMDG, but after last night's session with my VC and CV455, it was obvious who the winner is.  The level of detail/ability to produce nuance, impact and holographic stage (being inside the music if you will ) with the CV455 is stunning and can't be bested.  The PRAT with the CV455 is another key strength and it really gets me moving and lost in the music like no other tube has done.  Hell, I even sold off all my CV4033 Square Getters, if that says anything. 

Their is a new King!  I have a bunch of other "Holy Grail" level tubes but my rankings only include 2, because these 2 are better than all the rest and are the only driver tubes I need or care to use.  I can go big and spacious with the 6201, or tight and exciting with the CV455, and they both put me "There", but in very different and unique ways.

My top 2 tubes  

1.  Brimar CV455 FSG 56'
2.  6201 Hamburg PWTMDG 58'


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> It took some effort to dethrone my beloved 6201 PWTMDG, but after last night's session with my VC and CV455, it was obvious who the winner is.  The level of detail/ability to produce nuance, impact and holographic stage (being inside the music if you will ) with the CV455 is stunning and can't be bested.  The PRAT with the CV455 is another key strength and it really gets me moving and lost in the music like no other tube has done.  Hell, I even sold off all my CV4033 Square Getters, if that says anything.
> 
> Their is a new King!  I have a bunch of other "Holy Grail" level tubes but my rankings only include 2, because these 2 are better than all the rest and are the only driver tubes I need or care to use.  I can go big and spacious with the 6201, or tight and exciting with the CV455, and they both put me "There", but in very different and unique ways.
> 
> ...


That was one hell of a battle bro 😂


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> That was one hell of a battle bro 😂


Yes sir!  Definitely a heavyweight battle.  Honestly, I would be happy with either one, but owning both is where it's at.  They both produce detail and nuance like no other, while projecting completely different soundstage presentations.


----------



## Wes S

I do have a new King with the CV455 FSG 56', but as the story goes, I have another special tube on the way with the potential to dethrone.  

Say hello to what I have coming my way.  

Laboratory Sample Brimar 6060 Triple Mica Square Getter from Footscray.  Could this be a prototype of the King?  We shall see. . .


----------



## Wes S (Jul 13, 2021)

I know there has been some discussion about shipping and tracking info with Langrex and I have been chatting this morning with Michelle of Langrex about that very thing.  Basically, if the order does not total over 100 euros before tax and shipping fees, they usually don't ship with tracking info.  So, the only way to get tracked shipping with Langrex is to order more than 100 euros worth of stuff or you can also request tracked shipping at the time of order.

Dealing with Langrex lately, I have been just as impressed with their customer service, as I am with Pulse and that says a lot.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> I do have a new King with the CV455 FSG 56', but as the story goes, I have another special tube on the way with the potential to dethrone.
> 
> Say hello to what I have coming my way.
> 
> Laboratory Sample Brimar 6060 Triple Mica Square Getter from Footscray.  Could this be a prototype of the King?  We shall see. . .


I was hoping you'd scoop that up. Lol. I sent a message asking if they had a second tube and they didn't.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> I was hoping you'd scoop that up. Lol. I sent a message asking if they had a second tube and they didn't.


Thanks to you, for reminding me about it the other day.


----------



## Rowethren

Wes S said:


> Dealing with Langrex lately, I have been just as impressed with their customer service, as I am with Pulse and that says a lot.



I still haven't heard back from them about the noisy CV455 they sent me. I have been using this email enquiries@langrex.co.uk but I don't know if there is a better method of contacting them.


----------



## billerb1

Wes S said:


> It took some effort to dethrone my beloved 6201 PWTMDG, but after last night's session with my VC and CV455, it was obvious who the winner is.  The level of detail/ability to produce nuance, impact and holographic stage (being inside the music if you will ) with the CV455 is stunning and can't be bested.  The PRAT with the CV455 is another key strength and it really gets me moving and lost in the music like no other tube has done.  Hell, I even sold off all my CV4033 Square Getters, if that says anything.
> 
> Their is a new King!  I have a bunch of other "Holy Grail" level tubes but my rankings only include 2, because these 2 are better than all the rest and are the only driver tubes I need or care to use.  I can go big and spacious with the 6201, or tight and exciting with the CV455, and they both put me "There", but in very different and unique ways.
> 
> ...


Long live the King !!!  Well done bro.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I do have a new King with the CV455 FSG 56', but as the story goes, I have another special tube on the way with the potential to dethrone.
> 
> Say hello to what I have coming my way.
> 
> Laboratory Sample Brimar 6060 Triple Mica Square Getter from Footscray.  Could this be a prototype of the King?  We shall see. . .


You have a new number 1 as of 9:26 am 7/13/21? Eastern time zone.
😀


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> You have a new number 1 as of 9:26 am 7/13/21? Eastern time zone.
> 😀


That's correct and documented.      Let's see how long it stays there. . .


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I do have a new King with the CV455 FSG 56', but as the story goes, I have another special tube on the way with the potential to dethrone.
> 
> Say hello to what I have coming my way.
> 
> Laboratory Sample Brimar 6060 Triple Mica Square Getter from Footscray.  Could this be a prototype of the King?  We shall see. . .


Interested on how it sounds.


----------



## Wes S

Rowethren said:


> I still haven't heard back from them about the noisy CV455 they sent me. I have been using this email enquiries@langrex.co.uk but I don't know if there is a better method of contacting them.


Strange, as that is the email I use and they have responded back the same day every time?


----------



## TK16 (Jul 13, 2021)

Wes S said:


> Strange, as that is the email I use and they have responded back the same day every time?


@Rowethren contact them in ebay regardless where you bought them. That seller sent me replacement tubes without returning the microphonic tube(s). Think they were Heerlen E180CC Pinched waist D getters.


----------



## Rowethren

Thanks both, I will try to contact them again and see what happens. I am probably getting flagged as junk or something else stupid.


----------



## JohnBal

With the CV455 in my Lyr3 I find I have a difficult time listening critically. I find myself being absorbed into the music and enjoying all that my system can bring. Very quiet background to everything I listen to. Very little to distract me.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 13, 2021)

JohnBal said:


> With the CV455 in my Lyr3 I find I have a difficult time listening critically. I find myself being absorbed into the music and enjoying all that my system can bring. Very quiet background to everything I listen to. Very little to distract me.


Very good point and one I was about to bring up too!  The cool thing about the CV455 compared to my 6201, is that it makes me just get lost in the music and I forget all about, bass, mids, treble, and soundstage,  etc. . .


----------



## Zurv

which headphones are you guys using when getting these new tubes?
using a Hifiman planar i didn't notice much diff. With a focal or hd800s.. yes... i did. very much.


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 13, 2021)

Zurv:  
which headphones are you guys using when getting these new tubes?
using a Hifiman planar i didn't notice much diff. With a focal or hd800s.. yes... i did. very much.


Sennheiser HD800S


----------



## TK16

Zurv said:


> which headphones are you guys using when getting these new tubes?
> using a Hifiman planar i didn't notice much diff. With a focal or hd800s.. yes... i did. very much.


Currently the LCD2c comfortable can compared to my LCDX.


----------



## jonathan c

Zurv said:


> which headphones are you guys using when getting these new tubes?
> using a Hifiman planar i didn't notice much diff. With a focal or hd800s.. yes... i did. very much.


Audeze LCD-X, Beyer DT1770 250 ohm, Beyer DT880 600 ohm, Focal Clear, Kennerton Gjallarhorn JM Edition, Sennheiser HD600 (mod), ZMF Auteur.


----------



## Zurv

maybe the issue isn't with planar, but the susvara itself.


----------



## Wes S

Zurv said:


> which headphones are you guys using when getting these new tubes?
> using a Hifiman planar i didn't notice much diff. With a focal or hd800s.. yes... i did. very much.


ZMF Atticus and Verite Closed


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Very good point and one I was about to bring up too!  The cool thing about the CV455 compared to my 6201, is that it makes me just get lost in the music and I forget all about, bass, mids, treble, and soundstage,  etc. . .


I been running my sets of PW 6201. The CV4033 is different to my ears in comparison. Though both are quite good and the Footscray CV4033 square getter. Still a top 5 tube. Haven't gotten my CV455 yet.


----------



## roman410

Zurv said:


> which headphones are you guys using when getting these new tubes?
> using a Hifiman planar i didn't notice much diff. With a focal or hd800s.. yes... i did. very much.


Hifiman HE1000v1 moded


----------



## Wes S (Jul 13, 2021)

Listening with my Verite Closed and the CV455, and I have never ever heard this song sound so freaking lifelike.  I stand while I listen, and when I close my eyes I feel like a can literally reach out and touch the musicians and their instruments surrounding me, and I can feel the music.  I am in the studio standing right in front of Norah Jones and it is just flat out stunning!


----------



## Ripper2860

Bartender -- I'll have what he's having.


----------



## M-83

Having a first listen to Gjallarhorn with Gumby and MJ2.  I don't think I've ever heard Parce Mihi Domine by Jan Garbarek and The Hilliard Ensemble (from his album Officium) sound as good as this. It's one of my all time favourite tracks. Just stunning.

https://music.amazon.co.uk/albums/B...073WW1LMD&ref=dm_sh_4dLIo1xkB78lhnzLXHjuRWOsN


----------



## Wes S

M-83 said:


> Having a first listen to Gjallarhorn with Gumby and MJ2.  I don't think I've ever heard Parce Mihi Domine by Jan Garbarek and The Hilliard Ensemble (from his album Officium) sound as good as this. It's one of my all time favourite tracks. Just stunning.
> 
> https://music.amazon.co.uk/albums/B...073WW1LMD&ref=dm_sh_4dLIo1xkB78lhnzLXHjuRWOsN


Heck yeah man!  I have been looking at the headphone a lot lately, and really want to own one someday.


----------



## M-83

Wes S said:


> Heck yeah man!  I have been looking at the headphone a lot lately, and really want to own one someday.


It's a great HP and is happy on both Feliks Echo and MJ2. It's easy to drive so I have MJ2 on low gain.

Everything sounds holographic and the detail and space is impressive. 

It's really light and comfortable too, unlike Audeze HP's for example.

I highly recommend it 👍🏼


----------



## Wes S

ZMF Verite Closed + Brimar CV455 FSG 56' = The most holographic experience I have ever encountered in headphones.    

The sound has completely surrounded me and is projected out in front and behind me with life size images, and I can hear every little nuance and detail like a was there.  I am listening to Alice In Chains - Unplugged, and I am on stage right now!!


----------



## Wes S

M-83 said:


> It's a great HP and is happy on both Feliks Echo and MJ2. It's easy to drive so I have MJ2 on low gain.
> 
> Everything sounds holographic and the detail and space is impressive.
> 
> ...


Nice, now I really want to hear them.  I was typing my post above as you posted this one, and it appears we are both digging a holographic presentation.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> ZMF Verite Closed + Brimar CV455 FSG 56' = The most holographic experience I have ever encountered in headphones.
> 
> The sound has completely surrounded me and is projected out in front and behind me with life size images, and I can hear every little nuance and detail like a was there.  I am listening to Alice In Chains - Unplugged, and I am on stage right now!!


More holographic than the 6201 PW? I'm intrigued.


----------



## M-83

Wes S said:


> ZMF Verite Closed + Brimar CV455 FSG 56' = The most holographic experience I have ever encountered in headphones.
> 
> The sound has completely surrounded me and is projected out in front and behind me with life size images, and I can hear every little nuance and detail like a was there.  I am listening to Alice In Chains - Unplugged, and I am on stage right now!!


Gotta get me some CV455's 😆


----------



## Wes S

M-83 said:


> Gotta get me some CV455's 😆


I concur.


----------



## M-83

Wes S said:


> Nice, now I really want to hear them.  I was typing my post above as you posted this one, and it appears we are both digging a holographic presentation.


Yeah I love a holographic presentation. 

Gjallarhorn have an impressive 3d soundstage. 

The bass is sublime too. Lots of detail/texture and reaches very low (IIRC specs suggest down to 10hz) without overpowering the rest of the FR.


----------



## M-83

Wes S said:


> Nice, now I really want to hear them.  I was typing my post above as you posted this one, and it appears we are both digging a holographic presentation.


Yoshimi Battles The Pink Robots Pt.1 by the Flaming Lips is great on the Horn. Loads of space for the different instruments and the vocals etc- it's quite a busy track with a lot going on.


----------



## M-83

To all ambient electronica lovers out there... Give this album a listen... It's sublime...


----------



## TK16

HDTRACKS.COM has a 25% off sale until July 31st. Had to take a short survey to get it.
SURVEY25


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> Bartender -- I'll have what he's having.


Make mine a double — no ice…


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> ZMF Verite Closed + Brimar CV455 FSG 56' = The most holographic experience I have ever encountered in headphones.
> 
> The sound has completely surrounded me and is projected out in front and behind me with life size images, and I can hear every little nuance and detail like a was there.  I am listening to Alice In Chains - Unplugged, and I am on stage right now!!


“Hey….get that crazy headphoner the hell off the stage….I paid good money to see this band!…”


----------



## roman410

M-83 said:


> Having a first listen to Gjallarhorn with Gumby and MJ2.  I don't think I've ever heard Parce Mihi Domine by Jan Garbarek and The Hilliard Ensemble (from his album Officium) sound as good as this. It's one of my all time favourite tracks. Just stunning.
> 
> https://music.amazon.co.uk/albums/B...073WW1LMD&ref=dm_sh_4dLIo1xkB78lhnzLXHjuRWOsN


Jan Garbarek, I love this live performance


----------



## roman410

roman410 said:


> Jan Garbarek, I love this live performance


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Having a first listen to Gjallarhorn with Gumby and MJ2.  I don't think I've ever heard Parce Mihi Domine by Jan Garbarek and The Hilliard Ensemble (from his album Officium) sound as good as this. It's one of my all time favourite tracks. Just stunning.
> 
> https://music.amazon.co.uk/albums/B...073WW1LMD&ref=dm_sh_4dLIo1xkB78lhnzLXHjuRWOsN


~ As you get more listening hours in with the Gjallarhorn, it will improve and become even more cohesive while maintaining a crystalline separation between voices/instruments - all occupying clear space.
~ The engagement you will have musically runs the gamut from gutbucket Stax/Volt R&B to churning Impulse! jazz to cerebral ECM works by Jan Garbarek, Terje Rydpal, etc.
~ The Gjallarhorn is a charm with the MJ-II, the Valhalla II (!), Woo WA6, and the Violectric V280. The only amp that it couldn’t help would be a home-made jobbie with sloppy wiring and Philips ECG or GE tubes…


----------



## Ripper2860

So the DarkVoice amp is a no-go then. 😏


----------



## Wes S (Jul 14, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> “Hey….get that crazy headphoner the hell off the stage….I paid good money to see this band!…”


I thought I heard someone from the crowd, and crazy to know it was you!


----------



## Wes S (Jul 14, 2021)

TK16 said:


> More holographic than the 6201 PW? I'm intrigued.


Yes.  The sound of the CV455 FSG is tighter, quicker, more forward, and there is more weight to the sound, all while being a bit more resolving and nuanced as well.  That's why the CV455 is my number 1.


----------



## G0rt

Meanwhile, here in the cheap seats, '57 triple mica halos continue to deliver crystalline holography, with feeling. At 150+ hours they're ... perfect.

Elsewhere in Jollie Olde, another player was making history:


----------



## Wes S (Jul 14, 2021)

I have been rolling like a mad man this past week with my "top tier" 12AT7's, and the ranking has shuffled a bit here and there.  For reference, I had been using my ZMF Atticus all last week for the evaluations.  However, these past couple of days I decided it was time to hear them all with my Verite Closed a few times just to get the best results possible.  The VC is my most neutral and revealing headphone, which really lets me hear what a tube can do.  So, after last night's and this morning's sessions of rolling my top 3 tubes using my Verite Closed the ranking has become clear.

1.  Brimar CV455 Footscray TMSG
2.  Lorenz ECC81 Stuttgart Foil D Getter
3.  Philips 6201 Hamburg Pinched Waist Triple Mica D Getter

I plan to keep these 3 tubes on a steady rotation to keep things interesting, and as long as Sam doesn't go find another "Holy Grail", this ranking is staying exactly how it is for the foreseeable future.  

I am really looking forward to when some more of you get the CV455 FSG, and the USPS needs to get their butt in gear asap and deliver those tubes!


----------



## Rowethren

Wes S said:


> I have been rolling like a mad man this past week with my "top tier" 12AT7's, and the ranking has shuffled a bit here and there.  For reference, I had been using my ZMF Atticus all last week for the evaluations.  However, these past couple of days I decided it was time to hear them all with my Verite Closed a few times just to get the best results possible.  The VC is my most neutral and revealing headphone, which really lets me hear what a tube can do.  So, after last night's and this morning's sessions of rolling my top 3 tubes using my Verite Closed the ranking has become clear.
> 
> 1.  Brimar CV455 Footscray TMSG
> 2.  Lorenz ECC81 Stuttgart Foil D Getter
> ...


I am still trying to sort out my replacement for the noisy one they sent me


----------



## Wes S

Rowethren said:


> I am still trying to sort out my replacement for the noisy one they sent me


I was just going to ask you, if they got you sorted out yet.  Still nothing?


----------



## Rowethren

I sent them an email asking about what dates are available before I noticed the noise issue so I sent them a second email about that. They replied to my first email this morning but nothing about a replacement yet so hopefully the didn't miss that I sent 2 different emails.


----------



## Wes S

Rowethren said:


> I sent them an email asking about what dates are available before I noticed the noise issue so I sent them a second email about that. They replied to my first email this morning but nothing about a replacement yet so hopefully the didn't miss that I sent 2 different emails.


Curious what was there answer to your first question?


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I have been rolling like a mad man this past week with my "top tier" 12AT7's, and the ranking has shuffled a bit here and there.  For reference, I had been using my ZMF Atticus all last week for the evaluations.  However, these past couple of days I decided it was time to hear them all with my Verite Closed a few times just to get the best results possible.  The VC is my most neutral and revealing headphone, which really lets me hear what a tube can do.  So, after last night's and this morning's sessions of rolling my top 3 tubes using my Verite Closed the ranking has become clear.
> 
> 1.  Brimar CV455 Footscray TMSG
> 2.  Lorenz ECC81 Stuttgart Foil D Getter
> ...


Had the O getter ECC81 Lorenz Stuttgart and didn't care for them. The Stuttgart PCC88 3X mica are quite good.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Had the O getter ECC81 Lorenz Stuttgart and didn't care for them. The Stuttgart PCC88 3X mica are quite good.


Every O Getter Lorenz ECC81 have seen (I have looked at literally 100's of pics over the last year), have different plates compared to my Foil D Getter, so I assume they are completely different tubes.  The Foil D is another stunner, but unfortunately is another super rare one.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 14, 2021)

Here is my Lorenz ECC81 Foil D pic for reference.  Notice the 3 small holes,  which are on each side of the plates, and no other holes.  I have yet to find a Lorenz ECC81 O Getter with the same plates.

This one has some serious magic.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 14, 2021)

It's all about the Getter these days, and the interesting thing is a don't use a single tube anywhere with an O.  Nothing but D's and Square's in my amps from here on out.


----------



## Rowethren

Wes S said:


> Curious what was there answer to your first question?


They basically just said all the date codes that they have are so similar it shouldn't make a difference to the sound. So didn't really answer the question lol.


----------



## jonathan c (Jul 14, 2021)

Wes S said:


> I have been rolling like a mad man this past week with my "top tier" 12AT7's, and the ranking has shuffled a bit here and there.  For reference, I had been using my ZMF Atticus all last week for the evaluations.  However, these past couple of days I decided it was time to hear them all with my Verite Closed a few times just to get the best results possible.  The VC is my most neutral and revealing headphone, which really lets me hear what a tube can do.  So, after last night's and this morning's sessions of rolling my top 3 tubes using my Verite Closed the ranking has become clear.
> 
> 1.  Brimar CV455 Footscray TMSG
> 2.  Lorenz ECC81 Stuttgart Foil D Getter
> ...


As you may have seen, I am using the CV455 KB/FB FSG 1956s in the Linear Tube Audio MZ3. This amp natively (without adapters) takes 12AT7s and 6SN7s!🎉🥳 !!


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> As you may have seen, I am using the CV455 KB/FB FSG 1956s in the Linear Tube Audio MZ3. This amp natively (without adapters) takes 12AT7s and 6SN7s!🎉🥳 !! [i started a new thread since i could not find one specific to the LTA MZ3...]


Nice man!  I am one of your followers, so I saw that other post earlier.  It sure is nice not using adapters isn't?


----------



## jonathan c (Jul 14, 2021)

Wes S said:


> Nice man!  I am one of your followers, so I saw that other post earlier.  It sure is nice not using adapters isn't?


~ I think that (theoretically?) there could be signal transmission loss via adapters since the circuit becomes a tad "longer" with an adapter in place. Certainly, more 'connectors' implies the possibility of more 'distortion', 'phase shift' etc (although these effects are probably ultra-minute).
~ My first impressions (10:21pm -->3:53am) are of astounding immediacy of sound - not 'V-shaped', not 'A-shaped', not 'florid or pretty'. THE WORD: *THERENESS*. Between the external power supply, the zero hysteresis OTL feature of the LTA MZ3, and of course the Footscrays (with the Melz 6N8S) - whether via the Focal Clear, the Kennerton Gjallahorn JM Edition, or the ZMF Auteur: the sound, the soundstage is _palpable_, the air between instruments/voices is _breatheable_. This all _reminds_ me of the cap-modded Mjolnir II (Footscray equipped): the LTA MZ3 has 'Linear' in its name but the escalation of sound quality, hence my involvement, is 'exponential'.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 14, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> ~ I think that (theoretically?) there could be signal transmission loss via adpaters since the circuit becomes a tad "longer" with an adapter in place. Certainly, more 'connectors' implies the possibility of more 'distortion', 'phase shift' etc (although these effects are probably ultra-minute).
> ~ My first impressions (10:21pm -->3:53am) are of astounding immediacy of sound - not 'V-shaped', not 'A-shaped', not 'florid or pretty'. THE WORD: *THERENESS*. Between the external power supply, the zero hysteresis OTL feature of the LTA MZ3, and of course the Footscrays (with the Melz 6N8S) - whether via the Focal Clear, the Kennerton Gjallahorn JM Edition, or the ZMF Auteur: the sound, the soundstage is _palpable_, the air between instruments/voices is _breatheable_. This all _reminds_ me of the cap-modded Mjolnir II (Footscray equipped): the LTA MZ3 has 'Linear' in its name but the escalation of sound quality, hence my involvement, is 'exponential'.


I have always thought the exact same thing about the adapters and it actually took me a long time to even try them.  Some here might know my past history and thoughts about adapters, and it is well documented in the LP thread.

That's good stuff you are hearing with the MZ3, and your description sounds just about spot on with what I am hearing with my Pendant SE.  I actually looked long and hard at the MZ3 before I decided on the Pendant SE, so I have some sort of idea what that amp can do.  However, all the reading I have done on that amp, was not with some Footscray's in it, so I can only imagine how much better your's sounds than everyone else's.  Those in the know, know the Footscray's take whatever amp they are in to a completely different level, that most did not know was possible.

Happy Listening bro!


----------



## M-83

roman410 said:


> Jan Garbarek, I love this live performance


It's absolutely gorgeous, isn't it.

It gets me right in the heart. Unbelievable.

I first heard this on YouTube of all places, where it's used on a video clip about the Thrust SSC Bloodhound car that hit 763mph on the Bonneville Salt Lake.


----------



## M-83

Ah ok I thought you were taking about the track I posted. 

Thx for the recommendation. I look it up.


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> ~ As you get more listening hours in with the Gjallarhorn, it will improve and become even more cohesive while maintaining a crystalline separation between voices/instruments - all occupying clear space.
> ~ The engagement you will have musically runs the gamut from gutbucket Stax/Volt R&B to churning Impulse! jazz to cerebral ECM works by Jan Garbarek, Terje Rydpal, etc.
> ~ The Gjallarhorn is a charm with the MJ-II, the Valhalla II (!), Woo WA6, and the Violectric V280. The only amp that it couldn’t help would be a home-made jobbie with sloppy wiring and Philips ECG or GE tubes…


It is very impressive how the vocal and instruments are separated and have space around them.

It's a very versatile HP and is very good with a wide range of genres.

I'm not surprised that Horn is good with Valhalla in a way because it's excellent with Feliks Echo. 

Ooh no room for a home made jobbie or low rent tubes in this household!


----------



## M-83

This is an old classic and still sounds awesome!


----------



## M-83

Been a great chill session this evening, with ambient lighting provided by the Footscrays and rounded off with more Jan Garbarek... Bliss 😌


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> It's all about the Getter these days, and the interesting thing is a don't use a single tube anywhere with an O.  Nothing but D's and Square's from here on out.


That’s a hell of a report card! You are grounded! Give me the car keys!….


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 15, 2021)

How do you feel about isosceles trapezoid getter tubes, @Wes S ?


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> It's all about the Getter these days, and the interesting thing is a don't use a single tube anywhere with an O.  Nothing but D's and Square's in my amps from here on out.


I would label that as a noxious case of stereotyping, but then I guess this _is_ an audio forum with inputs done via keyboard.....


----------



## Guidostrunk

This job I'm on is kicking my arse.
Hopefully I can get a few tunes in tonight before I pass out. 😞
5 days since I've jammed and haven't been able to keep up with this thread. 15 to 16 hour days will do that. Lol. 
6 more days to go and then 3 days off to recover 😓


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> This job I'm on is kicking my arse.
> Hopefully I can get a few tunes in tonight before I pass out. 😞
> 5 days since I've jammed and haven't been able to keep up with this thread. 15 to 16 hour days will do that. Lol.
> 6 more days to go and then 3 days off to recover 😓


It’s time for ‘Footscraybsinthe’!…


----------



## billerb1

What a nice surprise to find my 455's in my mailbox today...only 6 days after ordering.  No tube noise or microphonics.  Haven't checked the date codes but will and report back.   On only 2nd hour of burn-in as I type.


----------



## Ripper2860

billerb1 said:


> On only 2nd hour of burn-in as I type.


OK.  So when are you actually going to fire-up the tubes you just got?


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 14, 2021)

They've been burning in for 2 hours.  Haven't listened yet...probably will later tonite just to get a sense of them.

EDIT:  Just checked the codes..  They read 1B6 and 3B6...so 1st and 3rd week of February 1956 ?


----------



## Wes S (Jul 15, 2021)

M-83 said:


> This is an old classic and still sounds awesome!



Yes sir!  That is definitely a classic, that I listened to on repeat back in the day. 


billerb1 said:


> They've been burning in for 2 hours.  Haven't listened yet...probably will later tonite just to get a sense of them.
> 
> EDIT:  Just checked the codes..  They read 1B6 and 3B6...so 1st and 3rd week of February 1956 ?


Heck yeah bro!  Can't get any better than that!  6 days and very close dates, that's just flat out awesome!


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> This job I'm on is kicking my arse.
> Hopefully I can get a few tunes in tonight before I pass out. 😞
> 5 days since I've jammed and haven't been able to keep up with this thread. 15 to 16 hour days will do that. Lol.
> 6 more days to go and then 3 days off to recover 😓


I was wondering where you went Sammy!  Hang in there brother, good tunes and good sound quality ahead!


----------



## Wes S

I am going to make a prediction, that a bunch more CV455 FSG are about to be sold, after @billerb1 reports back after the 50 hour mark.


----------



## Wes S

Got to love tubes!  My Lorenz ECC81 Foil D getter (my number 2 tube) just became so noisy in the left channel I can't even listen.  

Oh well, at least I still have the CV455 FSG and 6201 PWTMDG!  Honestly, I would probably be crying over that Lorenz, but knowing I still have the CV455 & 6201, I don't even care.  A good lesson that backups are a must, if possible.   Unfortunately, the Lorenz is a rare as hens teeth, so no backups for that one.  The fact that I don't even really care that the Lorenz went noisy, should speak volumes for the CV455!  Long live the King!


----------



## Wes S (Jul 15, 2021)

The CV455 FSG is back in the amp, and all is right with the world once again.      This tube really is as good as it gets!

Words that come to mind, when listening with the C455 FSG 56' . . .Cohesive, Detailed, Intense, Textured, Layered, Nuanced, Holographic, Dynamic, Thereness, Insanity and PRAT for days!


----------



## Rowethren

Wes S said:


> The CV455 FSG is back in the amp, and all is right with the world once again.      This tube really is as good as it gets!
> 
> Words that come to mind, when listening with the C455 FSG 56' . . .Cohesive, Detailed, Intense, Textured, Layered, Nuanced, Holographic, Dynamic, Thereness, Insanity and PRAT for days!


Yeah yeah yeah, stop rubbing it in!


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> They've been burning in for 2 hours.  Haven't listened yet...probably will later tonite just to get a sense of them.
> 
> EDIT:  Just checked the codes..  They read 1B6 and 3B6...so 1st and 3rd week of February 1956 ?


The 3B6 example I gave you is actually the code on of 1 of the tubes?


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 15, 2021)

billerb1 said:


> They've been burning in for 2 hours.  Haven't listened yet...probably will later tonite just to get a sense of them.
> 
> EDIT:  Just checked the codes..  They read 1B6 and 3B6...so 1st and 3rd week of February 1956 ?





TK16 said:


> The 3B6 example I gave you is actually the code on of 1 of the tubes?


You must be an actual psychic...not just a psycho.

EDIT:  Have given the 455's about an hour's worth of listening after about 8 hours of burn-in.  Am tending to agree with alot of Wes' thoughts on them.  Overall they seem to "clean-up" the very few areas where the 4033 squares were just a little off to my ears.  First and foremost, there's less congestion throughout the soundstage...perceptively a blacker background with more instrument separation.  I think the vocals are just a touch less emphasized compared to the Squares, which takes away nothing from the intimacy but also creates a better balance with the accompanying instruments.  Presentation is still right up front but for some reason the 455's are a little easier to digest and more engaging in the process.  Overall timbre could still be a bit more harmonically-nuanced and pulsating but they do improve on the Squares in that regard.  These are the initial things that stand out to me...and, again, this is after just 8 hours or so.
More later.

EDIT #2:  Forgot to mention the bass.  Nice step-up from the Squares...and that's on my gear which doesn't really play toward that side of things.


----------



## Zurv

wooo.. good idea with the date markers on the tube.
i have two pairs from the same week.


----------



## TK16 (Jul 15, 2021)

Next prediction 4th week Jan 56 is 1 of my 455's will have the other prediction shortly after I read the codes.
3rd week February 56.


----------



## Wes S

I think I might have to have my next order from Langrex sent to one of y'all and then pay yall to have them shipped to me!  I am not joking by the way, and for some reason it takes forever to get to Texas from the UK?


----------



## Wes S

billerb1 said:


> You must be an actual psychic...not just a psycho.
> 
> EDIT:  Have given the 455's about an hour's worth of listening after about 8 hours of burn-in.  Am tending to agree with alot of Wes' thoughts on them.  Overall they seem to "clean-up" the very few areas where the 4033 squares were just a little off to my ears.  First and foremost, there's less congestion throughout the soundstage...perceptively a blacker background with more instrument separation.  I think the vocals are just a touch less emphasized compared to the Squares, which takes away nothing from the intimacy but also creates a better balance with the accompanying instruments.  Presentation is still right up front but for some reason the 455's are a little easier to digest and more engaging in the process.  Overall timbre could still be a bit more harmonically-nuanced and pulsating but they do improve on the Squares in that regard.  These are the initial things that stand out to me...and, again, this is after just 8 hours or so.
> More later.


Heck yes!  Good to know I wasn't just hearing what I wanted to, and that they really are tops!

Hang in there bro, the improvement with timbre is coming your way.


----------



## Rowethren

Wes S said:


> I think I might have to have my next order from Langrex sent to one of y'all and then pay yall to have them shipped to me!  I am not joking by the way, and for some reason it takes forever to get to Texas from the UK?


At least you have a functional pair! Slow and steady wins the race right?


----------



## Wes S

Rowethren said:


> At least you have a functional pair! Slow and steady wins the race right?


I was never good at going slow, and can't rest until I have backups.


----------



## billerb1

Question to all...of all the 'backups' that you've_ had _to have, how many have you actually used before that particular tube you were replacing was relagated to your "B" list ??  In my case that turns out to be a very expensive answer.


----------



## TK16

Rowethren said:


> At least you have a functional pair! Slow and steady wins the race right?


Not happy with the testing on my pair I just got from Langrex. Won't be buying from them again. I'm guessing they don't test them at all.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 15, 2021)

billerb1 said:


> Question to all...of all the 'backups' that you've_ had _to have, how many have you actually used before that particular tube you were replacing was relagated to your "B" list ??  In my case that turns out to be a very expensive answer.


That would be a big fat Zero, but I did have an A rated tube (Lorenz ECC81 Foil D Getter) go bad on me this morning for the first time ever, that I don't have a backup for.  So, I will continue to buy backups, but will most likely never use them, just like all the others I have.  My OCD always gets the best of me, when it comes to this.  I wish I could be content without a backup, and so does my bank account!     I have tried to fight the urge, but I always end up buying backups.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Not happy with the testing on my pair I just got from Langrex. Won't be buying from them again. I'm guessing they don't test them at all.


Oh man!  Is this a TK joke, or real?  If it's real, I will count myself lucky with my first tube.  I know you have a tester and test all your tubes, and I was curious how the Langrex would do, and man this is a shock and not what I wanted to hear.

How bad are they?


----------



## billerb1

Wes S said:


> That would be a big fat Zero, but I did have an A rated tube (Lorenz ECC81 Foil D Getter) go bad on me this morning for the first time ever, that I don't have a backup for.  So, I will continue to buy backups, but will most likely never use them, just like all the others I have.


...and that's ok Wes.  LOL


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Oh man!  Is this a TK joke, or real?  If it's real, I will count myself lucky with my first tube.  I know you have a tester and test all your tubes, and I was curious how the Langrex would do, and man this is a shock and not what I wanted to hear.
> 
> How bad are they?


1. tube 3,700-3,700 
2. 3,000-3,000
My tester has wierd NOS readings 2,500 min 3,000 is technically NOS. Other 12AT7 variants test a lot stronger than the 455. The 56 square getter CV4033 tested around 4,200 to 4,600. Mullard 6201 around 5,000.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> 1. tube 3,700-3,700
> 2. 3,000-3,000
> My tester has wierd NOS readings 2,500 min 3,000 is technically NOS. Other 12AT7 variants test a lot stronger than the 455. The 56 square getter CV4033 tested around 4,200 to 4,600. Mullard 6201 around 5,000.


Got ya.  That's kind of depressing! I appreciate you sharing, and at least each tube has balanced triodes.


----------



## Wes S

@TK16, so with those tubes test numbers and how your tester is calibrated, I am assuming tube number 2 is below or close to minimum?


----------



## Zurv

TK16 said:


> 1. tube 3,700-3,700
> 2. 3,000-3,000
> My tester has wierd NOS readings 2,500 min 3,000 is technically NOS. Other 12AT7 variants test a lot stronger than the 455. The 56 square getter CV4033 tested around 4,200 to 4,600. Mullard 6201 around 5,000.



my offer still stands if you want me to send you a few to play with (i'd want them back at some point tho.)
win win  you can see if the hype is real.. and win for me to get them tested


----------



## billerb1

Did you get your 455's yesterday too TK ?


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> @TK16, so with those tubes test numbers and how your tester is calibrated, I am assuming tube number 2 is below or close to minimum?


3,000 is technically NOS. 2,500 is the minimum. Most I have/had are over 4,000. The 3,000 tube is the 1 that's disappointing. Sonically I'd never hear a difference with either tube.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Did you get your 455's yesterday too TK ?


Today bro couple hours ago bro.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> 3,000 is technically NOS. 2,500 is the minimum. Most I have/had are over 4,000. The 3,000 tube is the 1 that's disappointing. Sonically I'd never hear a difference with either tube.


Got ya.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Today bro couple hours ago bro.


Sorry about the test results but still really interested in how you think they stack up.  Will await your review.


----------



## Rowethren

TK16 said:


> 3,000 is technically NOS. 2,500 is the minimum. Most I have/had are over 4,000. The 3,000 tube is the 1 that's disappointing. Sonically I'd never hear a difference with either tube.


Serious question, if you can't hear the difference does it matter if they measure lower? Does it mean they would be expected to last less time?


----------



## Wes S (Jul 15, 2021)

Rowethren said:


> Serious question, if you can't hear the difference does it matter if they measure lower? Does it mean they would be expected to last less time?


I would assume the lower testing one will eventually go before the other, but we are probably talking a long time before that happens.  I myself have never gotten to the point where I would hear a difference, but I imagine once you get thousands of hours on them you might start noticing some channel imbalance.  At least that's what I think would happen. . .


----------



## Wes S

I am still curious what other's have to say, in regards to @billerb1's question about backups.  It would be very helpful for me to know, if anyone has ever even had to use a backup or had a tube die on them?  From past experience and then the one I had this morning, I am thinking my tube going bad was just a fluke.  I am trying to convince myself I don't need backups, and if none of you have ever had to use one, then that's hopefully enough to convince my OCD to stop wasting time and money   

You guys have already taught me I don't need to wait 40 minutes between tube rolls, which has been a game changer.  So, I am looking forward to what you have to say about the backups.  It would be amazing to not have to worry about that too!


----------



## TK16

Zurv said:


> my offer still stands if you want me to send you a few to play with (i'd want them back at some point tho.)
> win win  you can see if the hype is real.. and win for me to get them tested


Appreciate the offer, not currently driving right now but in the near future hopefully will be able to drive myself to the P.O.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I would assume the lower testing one will eventually go before the other, but we are probably talking a long time before that happens.  I myself have never gotten to the point where I would hear a difference, but I imagine once you get thousands of hours on them you might start noticing some channel imbalance.  At least that's what I think would happen. . .


That's my opinion on the matter as well @Rowethren


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 16, 2021)

Wes S said:


> I am still curious what other's have to say, in regards to @billerb1's question about backups.  It would be very helpful for me to know, if anyone has ever even had to use a backup or had a tube die on them?  From past experience and then the one I had this morning, I am thinking my tube going bad was just a fluke.  I am trying to convince myself I don't need backups, and if none of you have ever had to use one, then that's hopefully enough to convince my OCD to stop wasting time and money
> 
> You guys have already taught me I don't need to wait 40 minutes between tube rolls, which has been a game changer.  So, I am looking forward to what you have to say about the backups.  It would be amazing to not have to worry about that too!


I'll mention a couple of things that I'm sure show your neurosis is in line with all the rest of us sickos here.  I've never had a tube fail that I used a backup to replace.  I'm sure that it happens...just hasn't happened to me yet.  Now I HAVE ordered a few backup pairs, that upon listening to them, I preferred over the original pair they were to replace.  So those got some usage.
As for waiting a certain amount of time between tube rolls, I DO wait until the tubes are completely cold to the touch.  But my situation is different than those here who have the MJ2.  My amp uses 3 pairs of tubes.  I was told by the people at Woo Audio, the manufacturer of my amp, that I would be running a risk to the tubes and amp by inserting a 'cold' pair when the other 2 pairs were still hot.  Whether there is anything other than 'better safe than sorry' behind that, I don't know.  But I haven't been willing to roll the dice on their advice.  FWIW...


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> Question to all...of all the 'backups' that you've_ had _to have, how many have you actually used before that particular tube you were replacing was relagated to your "B" list ??  In my case that turns out to be a very expensive answer.


~ Backups are insurance - 99.9% of the time not used. Insurance seems expensive until used. Then comes the deductible…
~ With tubes, no backup is equal to no insurance _or _to a deductible greater than the value of the tube. Why?…the tube value plus the time to replace / substitute the tube…


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> ~ Backups are insurance - 99.9% of the time not used. Insurance seems expensive until used. Then comes the deductible…
> ~ With tubes, no backup is equal to no insurance _or _to a deductible greater than the value of the tube. Why?…the tube value plus the time to replace / substitute the tube…


You just had to go and post this!!!   Backups are back on my mind. . .


----------



## Wes S (Jul 15, 2021)

billerb1 said:


> I'll mention a couple of things that I'm sure show your neurosis is in line with all the rest of us sickos here.  I've never had a tube fail that I used a backup to replace.  I'm sure that it happens...just hasn't happened to me yet.  Now I HAVE ordered a few backup pairs, that upon listening to them, I preferred over the original pair they were to replace.  So those got some usage.
> As far waiting a certain amount of time between tube rolls, I DO wait until the tubes are completely cold to the touch.  But my situation is different than those here that have the MJ2.  My amp uses 3 pairs of tubes.  I was told by the people at Woo Audio, the manufacturer of my amp, that I would be running a risk to the tubes and amp by inserting a 'cold' pair when the other 2 pairs were still hot.  Whether there is anything other than 'better safe than sorry' behind that, I don't know.  But I haven't been willing to roll the dice on their advice.  FWIW...


That's good stuff man!  I use a similar style amp (driver, power and rectifier), so that's good to know.  I still wait for them to be cool to the touch before swapping, but it definitely does not take 40 minutes like I thought it did.  Thanks for the info bro!


----------



## jonathan c (Jul 15, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> ~ Backups are insurance - 99.9% of the time not used. Insurance seems expensive until used. Then comes the deductible…
> ~ With tubes, no backup is equal to no insurance _or _to a deductible greater than the value of the tube. Why?…the tube value plus the time to replace / substitute the tube…


~ One added complicating factor is our ongoing _quest_ for THE holy grail tube: be it driver, power, or rectifier. *If *we have found our holy grail tube(s), the purchase of backup for such tube(s) is reasonable - it is / they are not being made any more.
~ But noooooo….today’s holy grail tube is often tomorrow’s thermionic outcast…relegated to a life of substitution or of beggary. Why?…because the glass is always clearer on the next tube.
~ Our roving tube eyes lead to our financial outlays (I hope not financial distress); and the acquisition of backup for our _new_ holy grail tube(s) only compounds such outlays.
~ If we cannot convince ourselves that our _new_ holy grail tube(s) is/are THE holy grail tube(s), we should avoid purchasing backup. But we are comically/tragically unable to admit to settling for second best.
~ Just a variant of the Myth of Sisyphus…


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> ~ One added complicating factor is our ongoing _quest_ for THE holy grail tube: be it driver, power, or rectifier. *If *we have found our holy grail tube(s), the purchase of backup for such tube(s) is reasonable - it is / they are not being made any more.
> ~ But noooooo….today’s holy grail tube is often tomorrow’s thermionic outcast…relegated to a life of substitution or of beggary. Why?…because the glass is always clearer on the next tube.
> ~ Our roving tube eyes lead to our financial outlays (I hope not financial distress); and the acquisition of backup for our _new_ holy grail tube(s) only compounds such outlays.
> ~ If we cannot convince ourselves that our _new_ holy grail tube(s) is/are THE holy grail tube(s), we should avoid purchasing backup. But we are comically/tragically unable to admit to settling for second best.
> ~ Just a variant of the Myth of Sisyphus…


Amen!


----------



## M-83

Wes S said:


> I am still curious what other's have to say, in regards to @billerb1's question about backups.  It would be very helpful for me to know, if anyone has ever even had to use a backup or had a tube die on them?  From past experience and then the one I had this morning, I am thinking my tube going bad was just a fluke.  I am trying to convince myself I don't need backups, and if none of you have ever had to use one, then that's hopefully enough to convince my OCD to stop wasting time and money
> 
> You guys have already taught me I don't need to wait 40 minutes between tube rolls, which has been a game changer.  So, I am looking forward to what you have to say about the backups.  It would be amazing to not have to worry about that too!


I have several decent quality models of tubes, and I've tried lots of different models that aren't totl. The only back up pair is the CV4033 '57 Footscray. I'm glad I have it as a back pocket emergency but I run the risk with my other tubes.

I've "only" had one tube go bad on me (no sound at all) and that was a Sylvania model that was not particularly well regarded so it wasn't a great loss.


----------



## M-83

Today's song share:


----------



## Rowethren

I have had 2 go bad in my Lyr 3, irritatingly they were both Sylvania 3 hole bad boys... Turned out the amp had an issue and it also killed a pair of headphones...


----------



## M-83 (Jul 15, 2021)

Rowethren said:


> I have had 2 go bad in my Lyr 3, irritatingly they were both Sylvania 3 hole bad boys... Turned out the amp had an issue and it also killed a pair of headphones...


Sorry to hear that. I've read stories about Lyr 3 killing HP's. Did Schiit resolve the issue and compensate you for the HP's?


----------



## Wes S

Rowethren said:


> I have had 2 go bad in my Lyr 3, irritatingly they were both Sylvania 3 hole bad boys... Turned out the amp had an issue and it also killed a pair of headphones...


Ouch!  That had to be terrible man.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 15, 2021)

M-83 said:


> Today's song share:


I love that album cover!  Gonna give that song a listen when I get home.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 15, 2021)

Just read some promising news on the Valhalla thread.  Apparently, you have to ask Langrex for a matched pair in the notes/comments section when ordering the CV455, and they will make it happen.


----------



## M-83

Wes S said:


> I love that album cover!  Gonna give that song a listen when I get home.


Yeah it's cool af! I was listening to this back in my school days. It never gets old! Enjoy it later!


----------



## M-83

Wes S said:


> Just read some promising news on the Valhalla thread.  Apparently, you have to ask Langrex for a matched pair in the notes/comments section when ordering the CV455, and they will make it happen.


Langrex in my experience have always been good. I usually email them before a purchase just to clarify what I'm after.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Just read some promising news on the Valhalla thread.  Apparently, you have to ask Langrex for a matched pair in the notes/comments section when ordering the CV455, and they will make it happen.


That's actually terrible for everyone that bought pairs expecting a matched pair.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 15, 2021)

TK16 said:


> That's actually terrible for everyone that bought pairs expecting a matched pair.


I totally agree, and would feel they same way if I needed a matched pair.  Just thought it was worth sharing for future orders.


----------



## TK16 (Jul 15, 2021)

I actually lost a 6201 PW recently and just found a replacement cheap about $96. Tube cracked at the base and lost the vacuum. Just snagged this.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-6201...e-011e-42d3-a728-1f27b2ef5613&redirect=mobile


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Words that come to mind, when listening with the C455 FSG 56' . . .Cohesive, Detailed, Intense, Textured, Layered, Nuanced, Holographic, Dynamic, Thereness, Insanity and PRAT for days!


So then it's kind of, um, OK?  I wish you'd say what you think instead of beating around the bush.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 15, 2021)

Wes S said:


> I think I might have to have my next order from Langrex sent to one of y'all and then pay yall to have them shipped to me!  I am not joking by the way, and for some reason it takes forever to get to Texas from the UK?


It's the Coppell mail disruption center I yell ya.  It's like a package black hole!  😡


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> I actually lost a 6201 PW recently and just found a replacement cheap about $96. Tube cracked at the base and lost the vacuum. Just snagged this.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Valvo-6201...e-011e-42d3-a728-1f27b2ef5613&redirect=mobile


Nice find!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> 3,000 is technically NOS. 2,500 is the minimum. Most I have/had are over 4,000. The 3,000 tube is the 1 that's disappointing. Sonically I'd never hear a difference with either tube.


FWIW, bogey for a 12AT7 is around 4000, which would make more sense with the Hickok minimum being about 60% of that.  Makes the readings you're getting even worse though (as they relate to NOS values).  Sorry to rain even harder on the parade....


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> I am still curious what other's have to say, in regards to @billerb1's question about backups.  It would be very helpful for me to know, if anyone has ever even had to use a backup or had a tube die on them?  From past experience and then the one I had this morning, I am thinking my tube going bad was just a fluke.  I am trying to convince myself I don't need backups, and if none of you have ever had to use one, then that's hopefully enough to convince my OCD to stop wasting time and money
> 
> You guys have already taught me I don't need to wait 40 minutes between tube rolls, which has been a game changer.  So, I am looking forward to what you have to say about the backups.  It would be amazing to not have to worry about that too!


I've replaced a number of 6DJ8's over the years. Only a couple outright failed (as in no sound), but the others became noisier than hell and/or started losing dynamics and became rather dull sounding.  Testing showed the GM had fallen well below minimum.  Those are the only tubes that I've "worn out" per se...I've had a few random failures with other tube types, but I chalk that up to a flaky/marginal tube rather than failure from high usage.


----------



## TK16 (Jul 15, 2021)

bcowen said:


> FWIW, bogey for a 12AT7 is around 4000, which would make more sense with the Hickok minimum being about 60% of that.  Makes the readings you're getting even worse though (as they relate to NOS values).  Sorry to rain even harder on the parade....


You sure on the Hickok 752 roll chart 3,000 was NOS? At least the 1 on my tester. Thanks a bunch on the piling on about my 455's. 😉
Edit
Checked my 752 .pdf and it only has minimum of 625x4=2,500 with no NOS values. Never buying from that seller again.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> You sure on the Hickok 752 roll chart 3,000 was NOS? At least the 1 on my tester. Thanks a bunch on the piling on about my 455's. 😉
> Edit
> Checked my 752 .pdf and it only has minimum of 625x4=2,500 with no NOS values. Never buying from that seller again.


Yup, your 752 and my 752A use the same data with 'minimum good' values rather than NOS.  General rule of thumb across most vintage tester manufacturers is the minimum value is approximately 60% of average NOS, and the NOS value in a couple tube data sheets I looked at is 4000 for a 12AT7 (with 100v to the plates). 60% of that is 2400 which corresponds decently with Hickoks minimum of 2500.  So at test values of 3000/triode, that one tube you have is about 75% of NOS.

Apologies again for the party poopin', but please remember the calculations above required math which took me 3 hours and gave me a splitting headache and I kind of share your pain a little somewhat.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Yup, your 752 and my 752A use the same data with 'minimum good' values rather than NOS.  General rule of thumb across most vintage tester manufacturers is the minimum value is approximately 60% of average NOS, and the NOS value in a couple tube data sheets I looked at is 4000 for a 12AT7 (with 100v to the plates). 60% of that is 2400 which corresponds decently with Hickoks minimum of 2500.  So at test values of 3000/triode, that one tube you have is about 75% of NOS.
> 
> Apologies again for the party poopin', but please remember the calculations above required math which took me 3 hours and gave me a splitting headache and I kind of share your pain a little somewhat.


Was thinking about lowering the bias dial lower than 14 until I get the numbers I want.
😅


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> I've "only" had one tube go bad on me (no sound at all) and that was a Sylvania model that was not particularly well regarded so it wasn't a great loss.


Which raises the GE conundrum: If a GE tube goes bad, it clearly is not a great loss. But can a GE tube go bad when it is already bad? Can one tolerate considering degrees of dreckness?…


----------



## Rowethren

M-83 said:


> Sorry to hear that. I've read stories about Lyr 3 killing HP's. Did Schiit resolve the issue and compensate you for the HP's?


They fixed the amp which required a new main board but wouldn't do anything about the headphones or the expensive tubes it killed. To say I wasn't best pleased would be an understatement... 



Wes S said:


> Just read some promising news on the Valhalla thread.  Apparently, you have to ask Langrex for a matched pair in the notes/comments section when ordering the CV455, and they will make it happen.


Considering they still haven't replied about sorting out my faulty tube I am not sure I would have much faith in them actually reading the note and fulfilling that request.


----------



## Wes S

Rowethren said:


> They fixed the amp which required a new main board but wouldn't do anything about the headphones or the expensive tubes it killed. To say I wasn't best pleased would be an understatement...
> 
> 
> Considering they still haven't replied about sorting out my faulty tube I am not sure I would have much faith in them actually reading the note and fulfilling that request.


Dude!  I would be knocking down their door!  Seriously, I can't believe they have not got you fixed up yet.  I am loosing faith with Langrex, reading these last couple of post.


----------



## Rowethren

Wes S said:


> Dude!  I would be knocking down their door!  Seriously, I can't believe they have not got you fixed up yet.  I am loosing faith with Langrex, reading these last couple of post.


I emailed them for the 3rd time this morning as a reply to the original order confirmation so hopefully that one might get through... 

Is there anyone in the UK that would be able to test them for me just to confirm my eventual replacement is actually measure as NOS?


----------



## Wes S (Jul 16, 2021)

Keeping it real, I just rolled in a new tube and damn this is another killer one!  @TK16  I see you have this tube at the number 9 spot, and it ranks quite a bit higher for me.  The Copenhagen ECC81 Angled D Getter 51' with bottom code TKB, has a freaking killer midrange.  The tone, texture, timbre, and inner detail in the mids is stunningly lifelike, and the delicate touch of the notes is magic.  I am hearing guitars and vocals as if they were in the room with me, and this tube has the "Thereness" factor in full affect.  For acoustic music this tube is insanely good.  Still burning it in, but so far it's all about the very involving mids with this tube and I am loving how it pairs with my ZMF's and their very involving mids.  I have had this tube for a while now just sitting in storage, and after loosing my Lorenz ECC81 Foil D yesterday, I decided it was time to give it a go, as I like to have 3 driver tubes in rotation to keep things fresh.  I have to say with what I am hearing so far, it has easily made the cut and will be put into rotation.     This tube is more of a specialist in that it is all about the very unique and involving midrange that is clear and natural sounding, and for acoustic music (especially guitar and vocals) this tube is fantastic and has some tube magic that only the older "top tier" tubes can produce.

Happy Friday my friends!


----------



## Wes S (Jul 16, 2021)

Anyone watch the most recent Mike Moffat video?  Right at the beginning he says the 12A_ _ family of tubes are garbage.  I am guessing he has never heard the tubes we are using.    A statement like that is just ridiculous!


----------



## G0rt

Wes S said:


> Anyone watch the most recent Mike Moffat video?  Right at the beginning he says the 12A_ _ family of tubes are garbage.  I am guessing he has never heard the tubes we are using.    A statement like that is just ridiculous!


He's clearly just trying to drive the price down...


----------



## Wes S (Jul 16, 2021)

G0rt said:


> He's clearly just trying to drive the price down...


Brilliant!  I am so glad he said that, now that you mentioned it.


----------



## G0rt

Wes S said:


> Brilliant!  I am so glad he said that, now that you mentioned it.


It's like

"Oh, you're using ghetto 12A* trash in your hyper-nirvana-class audio chainz!? Here, let me help you..."


----------



## Ripper2860

Wes S said:


> Anyone watch the most recent Mike Moffat video?  Right at the beginning he says the 12A_ _ family of tubes are garbage.  I am guessing he has never heard the tubes we are using.    A statement like that is just ridiculous!


I believe his experience was limited only to GE.


----------



## TK16

jonathan c said:


> Which raises the GE conundrum: If a GE tube goes bad, it clearly is not a great loss. But can a GE tube go bad when it is already bad? Can one tolerate considering degrees of dreckness?…


The GE tubes in general actually sound better when they obtain clear top getter status.


----------



## TK16

Rowethren said:


> I emailed them for the 3rd time this morning as a reply to the original order confirmation so hopefully that one might get through...
> 
> Is there anyone in the UK that would be able to test them for me just to confirm my eventual replacement is actually measure as NOS?


From their website. Call them.
Tel: +441403 785600


----------



## Zurv

Any suggestions on a tube tester? I have about a 100 tubes now and kept buying more (ugh) and i've love to test. (i'm looking at you 8 tubes from langrex.)


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Keeping it real, I just rolled in a new tube and damn this is another killer one!  @TK16  I see you have this tube at the number 9 spot, and it ranks quite a bit higher for me.  The Copenhagen ECC81 Angled D Getter 51' with bottom code TKB, has a freaking killer midrange.  The tone, texture, timbre, and inner detail in the mids is stunningly lifelike, and the delicate touch of the notes is magic.  I am hearing guitars and vocals as if they were in the room with me, and this tube has the "Thereness" factor in full affect.  For acoustic music this tube is insanely good.  Still burning it in, but so far it's all about the very involving mids with this tube and I am loving how it pairs with my ZMF's and their very involving mids.  I have had this tube for a while now just sitting in storage, and after loosing my Lorenz ECC81 Foil D yesterday, I decided it was time to give it a go, as I like to have 3 driver tubes in rotation to keep things fresh.  I have to say with what I am hearing so far, it has easily made the cut and will be put into rotation.     This tube is more of a specialist in that it is all about the very unique and involving midrange that is clear and natural sounding, and for acoustic music (especially guitar and vocals) this tube is fantastic and has some tube magic that only the older "top tier" tubes can produce.
> 
> Happy Friday my friends!


I find those tubes are between very good to excellent status. If I had a SS amp with that sound I would be very happy with it.


----------



## Rowethren

They finally replied and they are sending a replacement. Hopefully that should come early next week and then I can get back to testing them.


----------



## M-83

Today's track share (this is a firm favourite of mine, it's awesome!):


----------



## M-83

Having an awesome session with VO, Gumby and Echo.

The more I listen to VO the more I appreciate it.... And the more I think about giving VC another shot...

That would either mean chopping in VO or Gjallarhorn though.

I have really bonded with VO from the outset in a way I never did when I had a VC on loan.

Gah cursed are the choices we have to make in the search for audio bliss!


----------



## TK16

Rowethren said:


> They finally replied and they are sending a replacement. Hopefully that should come early next week and then I can get back to testing them.


How many days emails did it take to get a response? I emailed about 12 hours ago with no response yet.


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Having an awesome session with VO, Gumby and Echo.


Is this a ménage a quatre porno filming?…


----------



## jonathan c

G0rt said:


> It's like
> 
> "Oh, you're using ghetto 12A* trash in your hyper-nirvana-class audio chainz!? Here, let me help you..."


Remember that Schiit is ‘straight outta Valencia’…


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Was thinking about lowering the bias dial lower than 14 until I get the numbers I want.
> 😅


The bias dial was invented by tube sellers whereby *every* tube can test like NOS.


----------



## bcowen (Jul 16, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Which raises the GE conundrum: If a GE tube goes bad, it clearly is not a great loss. But can a GE tube go bad when it is already bad? Can one tolerate considering degrees of dreckness?…


From a logical perspective, since a GE in NOS condition is bad it can only go worse.  From a philosophical perspective, when it gets the most worse (and dies), it's actually good.


----------



## bcowen

Zurv said:


> Any suggestions on a tube tester? I have about a 100 tubes now and kept buying more (ugh) and i've love to test. (i'm looking at you 8 tubes from langrex.)


Depends on how much you want to spend.  Currently made testers like the Amplitrex and Maxi-Matchers are expensive, but have greatly improved accuracy, longevity, and a warranty (if you buy new). Vintage testers are much less expensive but will need work (unless you can get a refurbished/restored one for a decent price), are less accurate, and if you break something you could end up with a boat anchor.


----------



## roman410

TK16 said:


> How many days emails did it take to get a response? I emailed about 12 hours ago with no response yet.


They answered my questions thru ebay overnight. How long was taked delivery? I have schedule delivery adapters for next monday🙂,but not received tubes yet.


----------



## TK16

roman410 said:


> They answered my questions thru ebay overnight. How long was taked delivery? I have schedule delivery adapters for next monday🙂,but not received tubes yet.


How long did it take for me to get the tubes from ordering? 6 or 7 days. Bought from the website not eBay.


----------



## Zurv

bcowen said:


> Depends on how much you want to spend.  Currently made testers like the Amplitrex and Maxi-Matchers are expensive, but have greatly improved accuracy, longevity, and a warranty (if you buy new). Vintage testers are much less expensive but will need work (unless you can get a refurbished/restored one for a decent price), are less accurate, and if you break something you could end up with a boat anchor.


 sounds like you are telling me to stalk TK and sneak into his home to use his tester when he is sleeping...

I wonder if there is some place in NYC i can just go to and have them test the tubes.


----------



## bcowen

Zurv said:


> sounds like you are telling me to stalk TK and sneak into his home to use his tester when he is sleeping...


Well, that's not what I meant but it's a helluva good idea!  Be sure to pilfer some tubes while you're there.


----------



## Zurv

bcowen said:


> Well, that's not what I meant but it's a helluva good idea!  Be sure to pilfer some tubes while you're there.


I know 
But as your said the new ones are costly.. and the even if i got an old one.. how do i know it works correctly.
Is there a place one goes by buy an old one and it is calibrated correctly?
honestly, because i live in a small nyc apt - i'd buy something, test all my tubes.. then get rid of it.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 16, 2021)

Zurv said:


> sounds like you are telling me to stalk TK and sneak into his home to use his tester when he is sleeping...


There's bad and then there's worse.  The alternative is...

...breaking in during the day, duct taping him to his recliner, gagging him with a  dirty pair of of his athletic socks, and then devouring his Little Debbie snack cakes while testing your tubes on his tester.


----------



## roman410

TK16 said:


> How long did it take for me to get the tubes from ordering? 6 or 7 days. Bought from the website not eBay.


Nice, have a good chance will receive tubes until monday too.
Hope, Langtex will take care of your problem!


----------



## roman410

Zurv said:


> I know
> But as your said the new ones are costly.. and the even if i got an old one.. how do i know it works correctly.
> Is there a place one goes by buy an old one and it is calibrated correctly?
> honestly, because i live in a small nyc apt - i'd buy something, test all my tubes.. then get rid of it.


I have a idea! Looks like we living not too far away.
We can buy one new together, you can test your tube collection and I can storage tester for you for free.😁


----------



## jonathan c

roman410 said:


> I have a idea! Looks like we living not too far away.
> We can buy one new together, you can test your tube collection and I can storage tester for you for free.😁


“…for any tube that tests well above NOS, I will relieve you of the burden of storage and of use 😏; for those below NOS, you can swell in the pride of ownership…😆.”


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> There's bad and then there's worse.  The alternative is...
> 
> ...breaking in during the day, duct taping him to his recliner, gagging him with a  dirty pair of of his athletic socks, and then devouring his Little Debbie snack cakes while testing your tubes on his tester.


…and playing Marilyn Manson at full tilt…


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> From a logical perspective, since a GE in NOS condition is bad it can only go worse.  From a philosophical perspective, when it gets the most worse (and dies), it's actually good.


Thus the GE slogan should have been: “We bring good things in death”…


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> …and playing Marilyn Manson …



playing Marilyn Manson : at full tilt  --> this is redundant.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Thus the GE slogan should have been: “We bring good things in death”…


Or "We bring bad life to things."   Same difference I guess....


----------



## Wes S

Just for fun, here is tonight's tube battle.   Some heavy hitters, and tough competition no doubt!  

Ledt to right - Hamburg 6201 PWTMDG, Brimar CV455 FSG, Raytheon 7730 Long Plate Raised Square Getter, Hamburg ECC81 Coin Base D Getter


----------



## Ripper2860

'The Usual Suspects' line-up?  😄


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Just for fun, here is tonight's tube battle.   Some heavy hitters, and tough competition no doubt!
> 
> Ledt to right - Hamburg 6201 PWTMDG, Brimar CV455 FSG, Raytheon 7730 Long Plate Raised Square Getter, Hamburg ECC81 Coin Base D Getter


How are those Hamburg tubes. Never heard them.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> How are those Hamburg tubes. Never heard them.


Fantastic, but I have never compared the 2 side by side, so this should be interesting.


----------



## Rowethren

TK16 said:


> How many days emails did it take to get a response? I emailed about 12 hours ago with no response yet.


They replied after about 3 days to my first email but the third email was about 6 hours so it is very hit and miss.


----------



## AuditoryCanvas (Jul 17, 2021)

TK16 said:


> How are those Hamburg tubes. Never heard them.


My pair (coin base) sound average at best to be honest. Curious what Wes thinks of them?

Edit, read Wes' reply after posting haha. Maybe my pair are duffers if they sound fantastic to you?


----------



## Wes S (Jul 17, 2021)

The Hamburg 6201 Pinched Waist Triple Mica D Getter (bottom code Df1 first version) is one of the best tubes I have ever heard period, and the verdict is still out on the Hamburg ECC81 Coin Base (bottom code YKB D6), as I am still learning what this tube can do.  I actually forgot I had a cherry pair of the Coin Base Hamburgs that I burned in with my old V2 before I sold it, so I am just now getting to know this tube and will report back after spending all day switching back and forth.  I will say the Coin Base does sound pretty good so far, and I will keep you posted if it can actually hang with the 6201.


----------



## Wes S

AuditoryCanvas said:


> My pair (coin base) sound average at best to be honest. Curious what Wes thinks of them?
> 
> Edit, read Wes' reply after posting haha. Maybe my pair are duffers if they sound fantastic to you?


Well, I just rolled my 6201 back in after a short session with the Coin Base this morning, and you are right.  The Coin Base are nothing to write home about.  The 6201 PWTMDG takes that tube down without even breaking a sweat.


----------



## G0rt

bcowen said:


> Or "We bring bad life to things."   Same difference I guess....


Maybe, tubez are like gf's. 

I mean, some are bad, but in a good way. And some are good, but in a bad way. 

And some are just plain bad, and some just plain good.

And after a few drinks, it gets harder to tell. And after a few more, it gets harder to tell anybody.

Like that.


----------



## bcowen

G0rt said:


> Maybe, tubez are like gf's.
> 
> I mean, some are bad, but in a good way. And some are good, but in a bad way.
> 
> ...



LOL! 

Bad girls are _always_ good, you just don't bring them home to momma.  Good girls are frequently boring, but usually have a much higher momma acceptance factor.  And if you find that one in a million that's _really_ bad but can artfully smokescreen the good thing, they quickly transition from girlfriend to wife.


----------



## TK16

From what I've heard almost 48hrs on burn in on the 56 Footies CV455 aren't all that great. Seems like too hot in the highs so far. Not much warmth to go around. The CV4033 may be superior to these but want 100 hours in before comparing them.


----------



## TK16

AuditoryCanvas said:


> My pair (coin base) sound average at best to be honest. Curious what Wes thinks of them?
> 
> Edit, read Wes' reply after posting haha. Maybe my pair are duffers if they sound fantastic to you?


Thanks guys, going to pass on those Hamburgs even though I am a huge fan of my other Hamburg variants.


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 17, 2021)

TK16 said:


> From what I've heard almost 48hrs on burn in on the 56 Footies CV455 aren't all that great. Seems like too hot in the highs so far. Not much warmth to go around. The CV4033 may be superior to these but want 100 hours in before comparing them.


Interesting bro.  I have about the same hours of burn-in now and am finding the highs smoother and not as prone to bleed into unwanted territories in the soundstage. 
And overall I'd say my total signature is a touch warmer with the 455's. I'm not hearing night and day differences between the 455's and the 4033's but in those two areas it is noticeable to me. The blackness and overall instrument separation are the biggest differences to me...and the vocals not being_ as _emphasized.
But you and I don't always hear the same things if I remember right and come at this with totally different rigs so it's not surprising.  Real curious where we'll both be on these in a couple more days.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Interesting bro.  I have about the same hours of burn-in now and am finding the highs smoother and not as prone to bleed into unwanted territories in the soundstage.
> And overall I'd say my total signature is a touch warmer with the 455's. I'm not hearing night and day differences between the 455's and the 4055's but in those two areas it is noticeable to me. The blackness and overall instrument separation are the biggest differences to me...and the vocals not being_ as _emphasized.
> But you and I don't always hear the same things if I remember right and come at this with totally different rigs so it's not surprising.  Real curious where we'll both be on these in a couple more days.


I've had limited listening in that time and I reserve final judgment later on. Synergy as you know is very subjective for many reasons. I am running 1 other set of tubes in the chain and that definitely influences too. I know you and others love the Telefunken ECC801s but in my rig it's a total mess.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> I've had limited listening in that time and I reserve final judgment later on. Synergy as you know is very subjective for many reasons. I am running 1 other set of tubes in the chain and that definitely influences too. I know you and others love the Telefunken ECC801s but in my rig it's a total mess.


Yeah we come at it from some different angles and it is all about synergy.  We'll see where we both are when the smoke clears bro.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Yeah we come at it from some different angles and it is all about synergy.  We'll see where we both are when the smoke clears bro.


Hey bro do you still have the Telefunken E188CC I traded you for the 56 CCA Heerlen PW? Having a listen to them now after quite a long time. Very unique sound sig.


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Hey bro do you still have the Telefunken E188CC I traded you for the 56 CCA Heerlen PW? Having a listen to them now after quite a long time. Very unique sound sig.


I sure do TK.  They were my #1 for quite awhile until the Tele ECC801S's came along.  It is one of just a few pairs didn't sell from the old days.  Kept those and Ivan's 7L4 red Valvo  D getters.  Everything else I have left for driver tubes require adapters...couple pairs of the  3 mica Fotons and a couple pair of the Tung Sols 2c51's (?).  Think that's it.


----------



## ksorota

So who do we petition to change the name if this thread to “best 12a*** tube rolling discussion”

Curious how many of you still have the MJ2.

This is one if the only threads I follow and I sold mine months ago! 😂


----------



## Rowethren

ksorota said:


> So who do we petition to change the name if this thread to “best 12a*** tube rolling discussion”
> 
> Curious how many of you still have the MJ2.
> 
> This is one if the only threads I follow and I sold mine months ago! 😂



I still have mine!


----------



## bcowen

ksorota said:


> So who do we petition to change the name if this thread to “best 12a*** tube rolling discussion”
> 
> Curious how many of you still have the MJ2.
> 
> This is one if the only threads I follow and I sold mine months ago! 😂


Nice to know I'll have some company if when I get shown the door....


----------



## Ripper2860

Wait! This is an MJ 2 thread and  one must own an MJ2 to participate!? 😯

Wow.  You folks are much more strict than members in the DarkVoice thread.  😒


----------



## TK16

ksorota said:


> So who do we petition to change the name if this thread to “best 12a*** tube rolling discussion”
> 
> Curious how many of you still have the MJ2.
> 
> This is one if the only threads I follow and I sold mine months ago! 😂


I can't change the name of this thread but I can change the name of the Liquid Platinum Tube Rollers for $500 if you want? 🤣


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Wait! This is an MJ 2 thread and  one must own an MJ2 to participate!? 😯
> 
> Wow.  You folks are much more strict than members in the DarkVoice thread.  😒


Rules are not as strictly enforced in the slums.


----------



## Ripper2860

They're probably just thrilled that anyone wants to spend time there, I guess.  🤣

(J/K)


----------



## ksorota (Jul 17, 2021)

Love the banter and the fight to top tube. 

Footscray is part of my daily search and already spart of my wa22 setup (rectifier)Just fighting the urge for some 455s! 

Honestly i was trying to get away from tubes, but all the discussion here forced me to dive in deep!


----------



## bcowen

ksorota said:


> Love the banter and the fight to top tube.
> 
> Footscray is part of my daily search Ana my wa22 rectifier. Just fighting the urge for some 455s!
> 
> Honestly i was trying to get away from tubes, but all the discussion here forced me to dive in deep!


What rectifier are you looking for?  Pretty sure I have some GE 5U4G's in the stash.


----------



## ksorota

bcowen said:


> What rectifier are you looking for?  Pretty sure I have some GE 5U4G's in the stash.



GE as in greatest ever!!!


----------



## ksorota

bcowen said:


> What rectifier are you looking for?


Would love  to find a USAF 596 at a decent price, hint hint!


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> So who do we petition to change the name if this thread to “best 12a*** tube rolling discussion”
> 
> Curious how many of you still have the MJ2.
> 
> This is one if the only threads I follow and I sold mine months ago! 😂


I have the MJ-II: it runs on CV455 KB/FB 1956 (Footscray) or Reflektor 6N23P-EV…


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

Wes S said:


> Well, I just rolled my 6201 back in after a short session with the Coin Base this morning, and you are right.  The Coin Base are nothing to write home about.  The 6201 PWTMDG takes that tube down without even breaking a sweat.


Yeah, similar story to the original 1956 Hamburg Valvo 6201 PWTMAG-SP, sounds good until you put the 58/59 PWTM back in and realize they don't even come close. Rare as rocking horse crap though, so I 'll keep them 

Only detailed photo I can find, I'll take one of mine this week.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 18, 2021)

AuditoryCanvas said:


> Yeah, similar story to the original 1956 Hamburg Valvo 6201 PWTMAG-SP, sounds good until you put the 58/59 PWTM back in and realize they don't even come close. Rare as rocking horse crap though, so I 'll keep them
> 
> Only detailed photo I can find, I'll take one of mine this week.


Wow!  Very cool!  I have never seen this version.  I have a D getter from 57', and thought that was the first version.  I love seeing rare tubes, that I did not know existed.


----------



## TK16

Speaking of 6201 PW, was going to save this for myself. 6201 PW 3% off offer I got.  Enjoy!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/164582400956?
😇


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Speaking of 6201 PW, was going to save this for myself. 6201 PW 3% off offer I got.  Enjoy!
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/164582400956?
> 😇


That guy has the best collection of tubes I have ever seen!  He really has all the "Holy Grails", but his prices are insane.  I think he just wants to show off his collection, and does not actually intend to sell anything with the crazy high prices of all his tubes.


----------



## roman410

ksorota said:


> So who do we petition to change the name if this thread to “best 12a*** tube rolling discussion”
> 
> Curious how many of you still have the MJ2.
> 
> This is one if the only threads I follow and I sold mine months ago! 😂


I am proud owner of Schiit Mjolnir 2.
My primary tubes are 6N23P Reflector 1975 SWGP silver shields.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> That guy has the best collection of tubes I have ever seen!  He really has all the "Holy Grails", but his prices are insane.  I think he just wants to show off his collection, and does not actually intend to sell anything with the crazy high prices of all his tubes.


Yeah easily the best tubes on ebay. Another thing is he was charging $30.65/40.65 for shipping and added that amount to the price and offers"free shipping".


----------



## roman410

jonathan c said:


> Which raises the GE conundrum: If a GE tube goes bad, it clearly is not a great loss. But can a GE tube go bad when it is already bad? Can one tolerate considering degrees of dreckness?…


I do not know, what you everybody do not like GE tubes. Back the time when I bought original Schiit Lyr the supplie GE 6BZ7/6BQ7A was my n.1, that was of course change with first rolling tubes😂. Actually they have nice fat, thick tubey sound.


----------



## Zurv (Jul 18, 2021)

so what are people using if not mj2 for these tubes?
I only broke-out my mj2 out because of the foot scary fever.
My normal tubes devices  (primaluna / woo) don't use these tubes.


----------



## ksorota

Zurv said:


> so what are people using if not mj2 for these tubes?
> I only broke my mj2 out because of the foot scary fever.
> My normal tubes devices  (primaluna / woo) don't use these tubes.



I bought a WA2 just to be able to keep up with the footscray excitement. They do not disappoint!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 18, 2021)

Zurv said:


> so what are people using if not mj2 for these tubes?
> I only broke-out my mj2 out because of the foot scary fever.
> My normal tubes devices  (primaluna / woo) don't use these tubes.


I don't have my 'Footsies' yet, but plan on using them in Lyr 3 and Valhalla 2* (with adapters).

*The one thing I've leaned with my rolling is that there is much untapped potential in Valhalla that is seemingly realized when paired with the right tubes.  It punches well above its weight and gives some 'big boy' amps quite the run for the $$.


----------



## bcowen

Zurv said:


> so what are people using if not mj2 for these tubes?
> I only broke-out my mj2 out because of the foot scary fever.
> My normal tubes devices  (primaluna / woo) don't use these tubes.


I bought the CV4033 to try in my Incubus amp that uses a 6SN7 natively.  Bummer...doesn't work well.  The 3x gain increase is too much for that circuit leading to audible distortion at louder volumes.  Fortunately the Footscray works very (_very_) nicely in the Vali 2.  The Vali 2 is a superb little amp for $150 (IMO). Not that it will ever compete with an MJ2 or Incubus or most amps of much higher pedigree, but like @Ripper2860 's experience with the VH2, plug the right tube into it and it sings in a much higher class than you'd ever expect.  My favorite tube in it so far has been an (adaptered) Sylvania 7N7 Frankentube, but the Footscray may change that.  I need to do some more A/B'ing, but as of now the 7N7 has a bit more punch and drive in the bass, but the Footscray lays the 7N7 to waste doing the soundstage thing....which is pretty addicting.


----------



## evanescent (Jul 18, 2021)

Wes S said:


> That guy has the best collection of tubes I have ever seen!  He really has all the "Holy Grails", but his prices are insane.  I think he just wants to show off his collection, and does not actually intend to sell anything with the crazy high prices of all his tubes.


And he must store them so carefully! The paint  on many of his tubes looks so fresh!

On mine the paint is always crumbling from old age


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I bought the CV4033 to try in my Incubus amp that uses a 6SN7 natively.  Bummer...doesn't work well.  The 3x gain increase is too much for that circuit leading to audible distortion at louder volumes.  Fortunately the Footscray works very (_very_) nicely in the Vali 2.  The Vali 2 is a superb little amp for $150 (IMO). Not that it will ever compete with an MJ2 or Incubus or most amps of much higher pedigree, but like @Ripper2860 's experience with the VH2, plug the right tube into it and it sings in a much higher class than you'd ever expect.  My favorite tube in it so far has been an (adaptered) Sylvania 7N7 Frankentube, but the Footscray may change that.  I need to do some more A/B'ing, but as of now the 7N7 has a bit more punch and drive in the bass, but the Footscray lays the 7N7 to waste doing the soundstage thing....which is pretty addicting.


Same for my amps as well, the right tubes (only TK approved)😅 can make my amps soar in satisfaction.


----------



## M-83 (Jul 18, 2021)

ksorota said:


> Approximately $150 in parts and about three hours  to do the work.


Have you ever come across anyone in the UK that has carried out the MJ2 mod you've done?

I'm really keen to do this but have zero experience and I do not have steady hands lol.

Edit - I can't recall if I asked you this a few months ago... Apologies if I did already.


----------



## ksorota

I don’t know anyone specifically who did. I would guess you could hire someone locally to you who could do the upgrade. I can provide the parts list and a diagram of where the changes were made.


----------



## M-83

ksorota said:


> I don’t know anyone specifically who did. I would guess you could hire someone locally to you who could do the upgrade. I can provide the parts list and a diagram of where the changes were made.


I would really appreciate it if you could share the parts list and diagram.

I know a previous colleague of mine that has a history of amp building.

I may be able to find someone else locally if needed.

Thanks


----------



## ksorota

M-83 said:


> I would really appreciate it if you could share the parts list and diagram.
> 
> I know a previous colleague of mine that has a history of amp building.
> 
> ...



I’ll go through my notes and photos tonight and send it over


----------



## M-83

ksorota said:


> I’ll go through my notes and photos tonight and send it over


Much obliged 👍🏼


----------



## roman410

ksorota said:


> I’ll go through my notes and photos tonight and send it over


I am interesting for that informations too. Have done most easy part, replaced stock fuse for SR orange with good effect. Thx.


----------



## M-83

roman410 said:


> I am interesting for that informations too. Have done most easy part, replaced stock fuse for SR orange with good effect. Thx.


Have you also upgraded from stock power cord? Or installed the SR Orange in stock power cord?


----------



## roman410

M-83 said:


> Have you also upgraded from stock power cord? Or installed the SR Orange in stock power cord?


In US power cords do not have fuses. I replaced stock fuse inside in the Mjolnir.
Replaced stock power cord for one made DIY use Nanotec #308 bulk power cable and Furutech FI-50 NCF style power plugs.
But found effect replacement fuse much bigger to replacement power cord.
​


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Have you also upgraded from stock power cord? Or installed the SR Orange in stock power cord?


I too put in a SR Orange in the MJ-II. My power cord (no fuse) is Morrow Audio MAP4.


----------



## ksorota

ksorota said:


> I’ll go through my notes and photos tonight and send it over



https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-EBjwo4qlu8H4gtN2XR9sTwxH7xxaaJGeXwDIJ9CmE4/edit







Info for all. 

I purchased the parts from mouser and digikey. Many were in short supply. They were replaced by elna silmic 2 or nichicon finegold in all locations.


----------



## M-83

ksorota said:


> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-EBjwo4qlu8H4gtN2XR9sTwxH7xxaaJGeXwDIJ9CmE4/edit
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you very much, that's awesome


----------



## Rowethren

My replacement CV455 arrived and no more noise issue! Only been a short time of listening but I am not sure I can tell the difference between the triple micas square getter CV455 and CV4033... I guess I am deaf.


----------



## TK16

Rowethren said:


> My replacement CV455 arrived and no more noise issue! Only been a short time of listening but I am not sure I can tell the difference between the triple micas square getter CV455 and CV4033... I guess I am deaf.


Great! I'm approaching 72 hours and 2 emails with 0 response.


----------



## Rowethren

TK16 said:


> Great! I'm approaching 72 hours and 2 emails with 0 response.


I got good service when they finally replied I guess reading emails isn't their strong point...


----------



## TK16

Saw this and was crushed by the test low! See 2 Heerlen codes others have a good chance in being Hamburg.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Unique-6-x...1-1211-4a5a-bda2-a0eb0568143a&redirect=mobile
Got 100 hours on the CV455 and these are top notch tubes. Not sure how they would rank, but probably in the top 8. They sound a heck of a lot as the Footscray Square Getter CV4033. Haven't heard the CV4033 since I been burning in the CV455 yet.


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 19, 2021)

TK16 said:


> Saw this and was crushed by the test low! See 2 Heerlen codes others have a good chance in being Hamburg.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Unique-6-x-Philips-MiniWatt-ECC82-Long-Plates-45-Foil-D-Getters-Test-Low-/194242347476?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=cf7335e0a3c54a03907218a9fbf29b83&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=194242347476&itm=194242347476&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=Philips,pageci:50bc4df2-e8b3-11eb-9e07-cea4435ed028|parentrq:bfb97a1517a0a45ab275df0bffc205ba|iid:1&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&pageci=a7141f31-1211-4a5a-bda2-a0eb0568143a&redirect=mobile
> Got 100 hours on the CV455 and these are top notch tubes. Not sure how they would rank, but probably in the top 8. They sound a heck of a lot as the Footscray Square Getter CV4033. Haven't heard the CV4033 since I been burning in the CV455 yet.


Yeah I have about 70 hours on my CV455's and haven't listened to my Square Getters since I started the 455 burn-in.  I think all who have heard both agree that the difference, if there is any, is subtle.  I think the separation between instruments is better on the 455's and the vocals are less prominent.  I feel a little bit more "present" in the recording venue with the musicians with the 455's, especially when I really crank 'em up.  They stay very solid on high volume.  It will be interesting when I throw the Square Getters back in to see how well I'm really remembering their sound signature.
Will really look forward to your comparison of the two...and how the rest of you who are just getting the 455's in and burned in compare them to the Squares.


----------



## M-83

Tonight's track share:


----------



## M-83

@jonathan c One for Gjallarhorn here, bud...


----------



## M-83

I'm listening to Gjallarhorn with Gumby and MJ2 this evening and am totally blissed out right now lol.

I'm sure there has been a significant improvement to the sound quality this evening. 

I am not exactly sure how many hours i have on the CV 4033 Footscrays but I wonder if they're starting to fully bed in. 

Everything just feels more cohesive, there seems to be more weight and tightness behind the music. The lower frequencies seem fuller and more textured. 

This has been one awesome music session.


----------



## M-83

This is an awesome version of this track and
it's like I'm right there at a VH1 Storytellers gig or something. The vocal and detail in the guitar are sublime. One of the best vocals I've ever heard.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Yeah I have about 70 hours on my CV455's and haven't listened to my Square Getters since I started the 455 burn-in.  I think all who have heard both agree that the difference, if there is any, is subtle.  I think the separation between instruments is better on the 455's and the vocals are less prominent.  I feel a little bit more "present" in the recording venue with the musicians with the 455's, especially when I really crank 'em up.  They stay very solid on high volume.  It will be interesting when I throw the Square Getters back in to see how well I'm really remembering their sound signature.
> Will really look forward to your comparison of the two...and how the rest of you who are just getting the 455's in and burned in compare them to the Squares.


Didn’t get to compare the CV4033 SG today. Want to thoroughly listen test the CV455. My 455 are Jan and Feb 56 and the CV4033 is Oct 56 so definitely want to find out is earlier is better. Not a Brimar expert but is the 4033 with the flying leads the same tube as the 4033 with pins the same tube? The construction is very similar.


----------



## Guidostrunk

One more long day of work and 3 days off. 😞 I can finally do some serious jammin! 
Still waiting for my cv455 and the Eindhoven/Venolanda tubes to arrive. Would be fantastic if they showed up Wednesday morning 😂


----------



## billerb1

billerb1 said:


> You must be an actual psychic...not just a psycho.
> 
> EDIT:  Have given the 455's about an hour's worth of listening after about 8 hours of burn-in.  Am tending to agree with alot of Wes' thoughts on them.  Overall they seem to "clean-up" the very few areas where the 4033 squares were just a little off to my ears.  First and foremost, there's less congestion throughout the soundstage...perceptively a blacker background with more instrument separation.  I think the vocals are just a touch less emphasized compared to the Squares, which takes away nothing from the intimacy but also creates a better balance with the accompanying instruments.  Presentation is still right up front but for some reason the 455's are a little easier to digest and more engaging in the process.  Overall timbre could still be a bit more harmonically-nuanced and pulsating but they do improve on the Squares in that regard.  These are the initial things that stand out to me...and, again, this is after just 8 hours or so.
> More later.
> ...





Wes S said:


> Heck yes!  Good to know I wasn't just hearing what I wanted to, and that they really are tops!
> 
> Hang in there bro, the improvement with timbre is coming your way.


Just to let you know Wes, the timbre showed up between 40 and 50 hours...along with more blackness and incredibly nuanced layering.  It's not so much that I'm hearing things I didn't hear before.  But what were secondary or backup instruments now carry full weight and take their rightful place in the soundstage.  They aren't just background tinkerings anymore.  As a result the overall presentation on some songs...quite a few songs actually...is markedly different.  Pretty cool exploration to enjoy.


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> I'm listening to Gjallarhorn with Gumby and MJ2 this evening and am totally blissed out right now lol.
> 
> I'm sure there has been a significant improvement to the sound quality this evening.
> 
> ...


Part of the improvement in cohesion etc may be attributed to the breaking in of the Gjallarhorn…


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> Part of the improvement in cohesion etc may be attributed to the breaking in of the Gjallarhorn…


Yes very true, I didn't consider that last night!  I'd estimate that it has around 30-40 hours on it in total. I read they are not at their best until 100+ hours. I hopefully should see further improvements.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 20, 2021)

billerb1 said:


> Just to let you know Wes, the timbre showed up between 40 and 50 hours...along with more blackness and incredibly nuanced layering.  It's not so much that I'm hearing things I didn't hear before.  But what were secondary or backup instruments now carry full weight and take their rightful place in the soundstage.  They aren't just background tinkerings anymore.  As a result the overall presentation on some songs...quite a few songs actually...is markedly different.  Pretty cool exploration to enjoy.


Good stuff, and exactly what I am hearing with the CV455, and why I feel the CV455 is superior.


----------



## billerb1

Spooky night with the 455's.  You wander out into that vast, magnificent soundstage there's a 50-50 chance you never come home.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 20, 2021)

TK16 said:


> Didn’t get to compare the CV4033 SG today. Want to thoroughly listen test the CV455. My 455 are Jan and Feb 56 and the CV4033 is Oct 56 so definitely want to find out is earlier is better. Not a Brimar expert but is the 4033 with the flying leads the same tube as the 4033 with pins the same tube? The construction is very similar.


The construction on the CV455 and CV4033 looks identical to me.  I can only speculate why they sound slightly different, but I think it might have something to do with the conversion of the Flying Leads.  I am thinking that the new solder mixed with the old leads has a minor effect on the sound.  That's just a guess, but I do know different types of solder don't all "sound" the same.  Whatever the case may be, I can honestly say that the CV455 and CV4033 don't sound the exact same, and I prefer the CV455 for that extra bit of refinement to the overall sound.


----------



## Wes S

billerb1 said:


> Spooky night with the 455's.  You wander out into that vast, magnificent soundstage there's a 50-50 chance you never come home.


Love it!


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 20, 2021)

It is incredible in there on the right night.  Never heard anything like it...unless I was_ at_ the place.


----------



## Zurv

I think they are pretty much the same, but my understanding is the CV4033 were made with flying leads and designed for rugged equipment where tubes could fall off the base while in use. The cv4033 needed to be soldered into place. (Info came from Sanjiv at pulse.)


----------



## TK16

Just sent a 3rd email in 4 days and almost immediately got a reply that Langrex already sent a replacement tube.


----------



## roman410

TK16 said:


> Just sent a 3rd email in 4 days and almost immediately got a reply that Langrex already sent a replacement tube.


Good to hear they take the care of you.


----------



## roman410

My adapters arrived monday, but no package with CV455 tubes yet. I do not know when I will receive them,because no tracking info provided.
I already arranged day off from work and  sign up to usps for daily incoming mail iinformation.And  yours  posting  impressions  make  the things even worse .


----------



## TK16 (Jul 20, 2021)

roman410 said:


> My adapters arrived monday, but no package with CV455 tubes yet. I do not know when I will receive them,because no tracking info provided.
> I already arranged day off from work and  sign up to usps for daily incoming mail iinformation.And  yours  posting  impressions  make  the things even worse .


USPS didn't tell me the delivery date. They just showed up.
There was no signature on delivery if that's what your concerned about.


----------



## roman410

TK16 said:


> USPS didn't tell me the delivery date. They just showed up.
> There was no signature on delivery if that's what your concerned about.


No, no ... I wanted only said, how hard it is waiting 🍻


----------



## M-83

Tonight's track share:


----------



## AuditoryCanvas

TK16 said:


> Saw this and was crushed by the test low! See 2 Heerlen codes others have a good chance in being Hamburg.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Unique-6-x-Philips-MiniWatt-ECC82-Long-Plates-45-Foil-D-Getters-Test-Low-/194242347476?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=cf7335e0a3c54a03907218a9fbf29b83&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=194242347476&itm=194242347476&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=Philips,pageci:50bc4df2-e8b3-11eb-9e07-cea4435ed028|parentrq:bfb97a1517a0a45ab275df0bffc205ba|iid:1&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&pageci=a7141f31-1211-4a5a-bda2-a0eb0568143a&redirect=mobile
> Got 100 hours on the CV455 and these are top notch tubes. Not sure how they would rank, but probably in the top 8. They sound a heck of a lot as the Footscray Square Getter CV4033. Haven't heard the CV4033 since I been burning in the CV455 yet.


Not that low. Avo's aren't the best testers for 12au7s either. Maybe I should post this _after_ snagging them


----------



## jonathan c (Jul 20, 2021)

billerb1 said:


> Spooky night with the 455's.  You wander out into that vast, magnificent soundstage _and you find @Wes S already there…👻…🎶…_


FTFY (fixed this for you)…[Reg.TM, © bcowen: 2021].


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> FTFY (fixed this for you)…[Reg.TM, © bcowen: 2021].


😂😂😂


----------



## jonathan c

jonathan c said:


> FTFY (fixed this for you)…[Reg.TM, © bcowen: 2021].


Just giving credit where credit is due. Besides the bludgeoning, actual and rhetorical, of GE tubes with 2 by 4 s, the bcowen calling card on many Head-Fi threads IS the FTFY of a plenitude of posts. Whether it be the 6SN7 thread, DarkVoice thread, 6J5 thread, and others, the FTFY just shows up. It will probably be applied to this post 😆🤪…


----------



## Wes S

Hey folks!  I just listed a HOLY GRAIL pair of Valvo Hamburg ECC82 Long Plate Foil D Getter bottom codes DW K6R.    

@TK16  I think you might be interested in these.

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds...late-foil-d-getter-nib-nos-matched-pair.8067/


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Hey folks!  I just listed a HOLY GRAIL pair of Valvo Hamburg ECC82 Long Plate Foil D Getter bottom codes DW K6R.
> 
> @TK16  I think you might be interested in these.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds...late-foil-d-getter-nib-nos-matched-pair.8067/


How are these in the warmth department in relation to the 56 square getter K62 and 56/57 45 degree d foil getter K62? May be interested if they are warmer.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 21, 2021)

@TK16 -- Too late. I snagged them!!







** Just kidding.  They exceed my self-imposed per pair price limit for this week (so you better hurry).


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> How are these in the warmth department in relation to the 56 square getter K62 and 56/57 45 degree d foil getter K62? May be interested if they are warmer.


They are warmer overall, and I think you would love them.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> They are warmer overall, and I think you would love them.


Went ahead a stole 1 of your pics as my new avatar. Seems there is a delay in the avatar taking effect, just tried changing it once and it took like 20 minutes.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Went ahead a stole 1 of your pics as my new avatar. Seems there is a delay in the avatar taking effect, just tried changing it once and it took like 20 minutes.


Good one!


----------



## M-83

Today's track share is a classic - taken from a spectacular album by Blackmill:


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> FTFY (fixed this for you)…[Reg.TM, © bcowen: 2021].


Love it!!!


----------



## TK16

Since I got a replacement 455 coming I chucked in my 56 SG CV4033 pair until my 6201 PW shows. The CV4033 SG and CV455 SG is so close in sound signature not going to buy either a backup set. The 455 sounds a bit warmer I think. Will have more later on.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Just giving credit where credit is due. Besides the bludgeoning, actual and rhetorical, of GE tubes with 2 by 4 s, the bcowen calling card on many Head-Fi threads IS the FTFY of a plenitude of posts. Whether it be the 6SN7 thread, DarkVoice thread, 6J5 thread, and others, the FTFY just shows up. It will probably be applied to this post 😆🤪…


ROFL!  

It's totally not my fault that so many posts need fixing, but on the positive side it's a small number of usual suspects that require regular post-fixin'.  Or when someone says "I LOVE GE tubes!" you know that fixing their posts is just a start...


----------



## billerb1

Boy these last couple of days listening to the CV455's have been such an amazing pleasure !!!  They sounded more than decent right out of the box but at about 50 hours the musical floodgates opened.  These tubes deliver more music per square inch than I would have thought was possible.  So *RICH*, so nuanced...and so damn musical.  I just spent the last half hour examining the subtle harmonics  and tone variations of Manu Katche's (one of my favorite drummers) two ride cymbals on his album "Neighbourhood." His crash cymbals and drums were just gravy.  Everything is just presented to you on a gold platter with these tubes.  It's just a matter of choosing which musical road you want to follow.  Totally mesmerizing music...up close.  I'm hoping those of you waiting on these tubes end up getting the same incredible synergy with your rigs as I have.
Cheers !!!


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> ROFL!
> 
> It's totally not my fault that so many posts need fixing, but on the positive side it's a small number of usual suspects that require regular post-fixin'.  Or when someone says "I LOVE GE tubes!" you know that fixing their posts is just a start...


Another 1970s-style instructional message to follow post fixing. “This is a headphone amplifier (picture A). This is a headphone amplifier on GE tubes (picture B). Any questions?”

Picture A:




Picture B:


----------



## Guidostrunk

billerb1 said:


> Boy these last couple of days listening to the CV455's have been such an amazing pleasure !!!  They sounded more than decent right out of the box but at about 50 hours the musical floodgates opened.  These tubes deliver more music per square inch than I would have thought was possible.  So *RICH*, so nuanced...and so damn musical.  I just spent the last half hour examining the subtle harmonics  and tone variations of Manu Katche's (one of my favorite drummers) two ride cymbals on his album "Neighbourhood." His crash cymbals and drums were just gravy.  Everything is just presented to you on a gold platter with these tubes.  It's just a matter of choosing which musical road you want to follow.  Totally mesmerizing music...up close.  I'm hoping those of you waiting on these tubes end up getting the same incredible synergy with your rigs as I have.
> Cheers !!!


I'm hoping mine get here soon bro! 

I finally get to relax and jam. Got all my schiit done around the house today and much needed sleep lol. 
Tonight is gonna be a blast. Just poured the first drink and parking my arse at the rig 🤣


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm hoping mine get here soon bro!
> 
> I finally get to relax and jam. Got all my schiit done around the house today and much needed sleep lol.
> Tonight is gonna be a blast. Just poured the first drink and parking my arse at the rig 🤣


When did you buy them after me?


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> When did you buy them after me?


A day or 2 after Billy.


----------



## billerb1

I got mine in 6 days.  I almost fell over when I saw 'em in the mailbox.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> A day or 2 after Billy.


I ordered mine day after Billy and got mine the day after Billy. Put over 100 hours on them a couple days ago when I stopped burning them in. I'd email them. Might take 3 days for a first reply. After that they are attentive.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> I ordered mine day after Billy and got mine the day after Billy. Put over 100 hours on them a couple days ago when I stopped burning them in. I'd email them. Might take 3 days for a first reply. After that they are attentive.


I figured waiting until the end of the week given what wes went through. 30 days before he saw his lol.


----------



## jonathan c

Of the several orders for Brimar CV455 placed directly with Langrex, I have not had any which took longer than 20 days to get to my address.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm hoping mine get here soon bro!
> 
> I finally get to relax and jam. Got all my schiit done around the house today and much needed sleep lol.
> Tonight is gonna be a blast. Just poured the first drink and parking my arse at the rig 🤣


I like “the first” rather than “a”…


----------



## Wes S (Jul 22, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> I figured waiting until the end of the week given what wes went through. 30 days before he saw his lol.


I am still waiting on my second pair, that I ordered before lots of you, so you are not alone.  The first one that took 30 days, Langrex was just about to send out a replacement, so I don't think they will do anything if you email them, until it gets past 30 days.  I actually have 3 different orders from the UK that are all in limbo for over 20 days now, and I am about to just stop buying from overseas, until USPS pulls their heads out of their asses!  I also, have another one I already received a refund for and it's been in limbo for 3 months now.  I currently have several Holy Grail level tubes that are in limbo and it drives me nuts!!!  Just had to vent, sorry but I have been keeping that in for 20 days now.    Until, everyone starts using EMS, DHL or Fedex, this problem will continue to get worse.  The USPS Union Workers are a joke to human kind.  Sorry, but I speak truth as I work directly with the USPS for a living and have a backstage pass to what is going on (literally as I go through the back door where all the sorting is done when dropping of my bulk mail every day).  Lazy Union Workers at their finest!  I am going to have to step away from tube talk and just enjoy what I have for a while, and count myself lucky I even got one CV455. I just get too frustrated every time this conversation comes up. . .See y'all hopefully sooner than later.

That's my 2 cents about the whole thing.


----------



## G0rt

I don't suppose these smelly old things are any good?


----------



## Wes S (Jul 22, 2021)

G0rt said:


> I don't suppose these smelly old things are any good?


That's my listing.


----------



## Rowethren

Wes S said:


> That's my listing.


Probably not worth it then, I will give you 50¢ for them and not a dime more.


----------



## G0rt

Wes S said:


> That's my listing.


Thought so.


----------



## Wes S

G0rt said:


> Thought so.


Where you the one who bought them?


----------



## G0rt

Wes S said:


> Where you the one who bought them?


Yup. Resistance is futile.


----------



## Wes S

G0rt said:


> Yup. Resistance is futile.


Sweet!  I can't wait to hear your thoughts on them.  I went crazy when I first discovered this tube, and liked it so much I ended up buying 4 pairs.    I listed 2 pairs on ebay yesterday, but I am still keeping 2 pairs for myself and I am glad one of the pairs I listed is going to one of my tube rolling buddies.  

I have them packed up and will ship them shortly.  Also, I will be shipping them with Fedex 2nd day, so you will get them for sure and soon.  I will not use USPS ever again, as I think that is just cruel to the buyer.  

I will post the tracking info on the bay shortly.  
Thanks and Enjoy bro!


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Sweet!  I can't wait to hear your thoughts on them.  I went crazy when I first discovered this tube, and liked it so much I ended up buying 4 pairs.    I listed 2 pairs on ebay yesterday, but I am still keeping 2 pairs for myself and I am glad one of the pairs I listed is going to one of my tube rolling buddies.
> 
> I have them packed up and will ship them shortly.  Also, I will be shipping them with Fedex 2nd day, so you will get them for sure and soon.  I will not use USPS ever again, as I think that is just cruel to the buyer.
> 
> ...


Maybe USPS thinks that Texas is still part of Mexico and the workers are afraid to leave the US to deliver packages?😃


----------



## G0rt

Wes S said:


> Sweet!  I can't wait to hear your thoughts on them.  I went crazy when I first discovered this tube, and liked it so much I ended up buying 4 pairs.    I listed 2 pairs on ebay yesterday, but I am still keeping 2 pairs for myself and I am glad one of the pairs I listed is going to one of my tube rolling buddies.
> 
> I have them packed up and will ship them shortly.  Also, I will be shipping them with Fedex 2nd day, so you will get them for sure and soon.  I will not use USPS ever again, as I think that is just cruel to the buyer.
> 
> ...


I promise, I'll be gentle. Ish.


----------



## Zurv (Jul 22, 2021)

RE: time for order from Langrex CV455. Mine took about a week from order to having it dropped off at my apt.
That said, i ordered 8 and UK to NYC could be a fast route for shipping too.

but i was super unlucky with an order from pulse. fedex is taking their sweet time with it. Shipped 3+ weeks ago...


----------



## roman410 (Jul 22, 2021)

Zurv said:


> RE: time for order from Langrex CV455. Mine took about a week from order to having it dropped off at my apt.
> That said, i ordered 8 and UK to NYC could be a fast route for shipping too.


My experience it is opposite😪. Found tracking number from my order thru ebay. Last update was from 7/14/2021- Item Leaving the UK. I am suspicious the package it is still in UK or it is stuck on US customs.


----------



## Ripper2860

Ordered my pair on 7/7 and have no idea where they are.


----------



## Wes S

roman410 said:


> My experience it is opposite😪. Found tracking number from my order thru ebay. Last update was from 7/14/2021- Item Leaving the UK. I am suspicious the package it is still in UK or it is stuck on US customs.


Thats where 4 of my orders are at too.  It does not seem to be an issue in just one particular part of the country.  It is basically a crap shoot.  For the past couple of months, every other package I have ordered from the U.K. ends up in limbo.  Hell, I have even started purchasing 2 of the same tube (if available), hoping at least 1 of them actually makes it.  This has kind of been working, but it's getting expensive and time consuming.  I really do think I am going to hold off on international purchases until people stop using USPS.  I have some tubes that are 3 months out, that are so rare I have never seen another one, and they are said to be amazing sounding tubes, but unfortunately I don't think I will ever be able to confirm that.  It really sucks, knowing those super rare tubes just disappeared and I will most likely never see them again.  Hell, I would rather have had someone else bought them, and received them vs. no one getting them.  Really sad and sucks, because lately there have been lots of "Holy Grail" level tubes being offered that I have never seen before, but I am not willing to take a chance anymore.


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> Ordered my pair on 7/7 and have no idea where they are.


Ordered a pair the same day, and mine must be wherever the hell yours are too.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 22, 2021)

I have some good news, and perhaps someone has been listening to my rants about how absolutely terrible the USPS is!

I just got tracking info for my most recent ebay purchase of some very very special "Holy Grail" level tubes, and guess who the shipping company is. . .Fedex (I think I hear angels singing).   






I will be sharing my findings on yet another "Holy Grail" level tube, that has recently moved to my number 1 spot very soon, now that I know my backups will arrive thanks to Fedex.  I currently have one of them and it has not left my amp for days, it is that good.  This tube can hang with the CV455 and 6201 with ease, and has the some of best balance top to bottom I have heard in a tube.

More to come . . .


----------



## Wes S (Jul 23, 2021)

So, as it goes with tubes. . .I got an itch to try another one and man has it been blowing my mind.  Honestly, I have had a single of this tube for a while now, and can't believe it took me this long to give it a shot.

The Tungsram Tilburg ECC82 Black Welded Plates Disc Getter is another magical tube folks.  The balance top to bottom is perfect, as in nothing stands out and everything is there in perfect proportion to make things sound like I am "There".  Again, the cliche of "hearing things I have never heard before" applies to this tube.  Other than that, I am actually having a hard time trying to describe the sound of this tube, as it really does not have a "sound sig", meaning it just let's the recording come through as if I was in the room with the musicians.  Also, I can really crank the volume with this tube, and it just keeps getting better the louder I go.    The bass hits hard and is tight, the mids are fully fleshed out, detailed and lifelike and the highs have great extension but are never harsh.  The stage is open and holographic as well.  This really just might be the "perfect" tube.   Compared to the CV455 and 6201 PWTMDG, the Tungsram sits somewhere in between them sound wise, and is definitely at their level, and it's perfect balance top to bottom puts it at number 1 for me.  Taking a closer look at the construction of the Tungsram, and you can just tell this was built with care, by the hands of a very skilled craftsman, with the Black Welded Plates, Disc Getter,  Very Black Getter Flashing, the little metal tab (number one identifier for Tungsram tubes) welded to the plate, and rhodium plated pins.











Unfortunately, as is usually the case with the killer NOS tubes, these are hard to find.  We really have been spoiled lately with the Brimar CV tubes being so available.

This pair is ridiculously priced, but is the exact tube I am talking about for reference.  
https://www.ebay.es/itm/184576221513

Happy Hunting, Rolling and Listening!


----------



## billerb1

God love ya Wes but I just can't read any more of your posts.  I can't afford to.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> God love ya Wes but I just can't read any more of your posts.  I can't afford to.


Same! Thinking of putting him on the ignore list.😆


----------



## Ripper2860

I'm starting to think the man has never met a tube he didn't like.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 22, 2021)

I promise I am done guys, as I seriously can't afford anymore myself.  This Tungsram was unique in that already had it, and was just giving it a listen to see if it was good to sell.  Well to my surprise it blew my mind, so I bought a few more backups and had to share my findings because it really is a winner.  So, now I don't have any other tubes in my inventory that I have not listen to, and won't be looking for anymore for a good while.   I don't make much money and I am tapped out for a good while, but that's fine with me, and my trio of "Holy Grails".


----------



## Wes S (Jul 22, 2021)

Ripper2860 said:


> I'm starting to think the man has never met a tube he didn't like.


LOL!  There are a bunch, and Telefunken makes most of them.  I also don't care for any of the Siemens or RCA tubes I have listened to either.   So, as you can see I don't like them all.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Same! Thinking of putting him on the ignore list.😆


You might miss out on another killer pair of Valvo's if you do.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Thats where 4 of my orders are at too.  It does not seem to be an issue in just one particular part of the country.  It is basically a crap shoot.  For the past couple of months, every other package I have ordered from the U.K. ends up in limbo.  Hell, I have even started purchasing 2 of the same tube (if available), hoping at least 1 of them actually makes it.  This has kind of been working, but it's getting expensive and time consuming.  I really do think I am going to hold off on international purchases until people stop using USPS.  I have some tubes that are 3 months out, that are so rare I have never seen another one, and they are said to be amazing sounding tubes, but unfortunately I don't think I will ever be able to confirm that.  It really sucks, knowing those super rare tubes just disappeared and I will most likely never see them again.  Hell, I would rather have had someone else bought them, and received them vs. no one getting them.  Really sad and sucks, because lately there have been lots of "Holy Grail" level tubes being offered that I have never seen before, but I am not willing to take a chance anymore.


If you use USPS Informed Delivery, you can add a nickname to a package once tracking is established.  Kind of a neat idea especially if you have a number of packages incoming so you can see what's what without having to look up tracking numbers.  But one word of warning: don't nickname it with an actual or desirable tube name.  I had a Western Electric 421A incoming that I nicknamed 'WE 421A' and tracking showed no movement the day after I labeled it. That was 6 months ago, still no tube. Then a TungSol 5998 I named 'TS5998.' Same thing...tracking movement stopped the day after I named it, and that was 5 months ago.  Now I just name things with something I can recognize, like 'Used cat litter' or 'GE Tube' and nothing has gone missing since.  Coincidence?


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Thats where 4 of my orders are at too.  It does not seem to be an issue in just one particular part of the country.  It is basically a crap shoot.  For the past couple of months, every other package I have ordered from the U.K. ends up in limbo.  Hell, I have even started purchasing 2 of the same tube (if available), hoping at least 1 of them actually makes it.  This has kind of been working, but it's getting expensive and time consuming.  I really do think I am going to hold off on international purchases until people stop using USPS.  I have some tubes that are 3 months out, that are so rare I have never seen another one, and they are said to be amazing sounding tubes, but unfortunately I don't think I will ever be able to confirm that.  It really sucks, knowing those super rare tubes just disappeared and I will most likely never see them again.  Hell, I would rather have had someone else bought them, and received them vs. no one getting them.  Really sad and sucks, because lately there have been lots of "Holy Grail" level tubes being offered that I have never seen before, but I am not willing to take a chance anymore.


I still believe that UK exports, via air/boat/other, are being process-affected by the Brexit. Numerous multilateral trade agreements, between the UK and its primary and secondary export market nations, have to be rewritten. There is also a shortage of personnel with international trade law experience…


----------



## billerb1

Nothing does snare drums like the Brimar CV455's.


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Nothing does snare drums like the Brimar CV455's.


Maybe tomorrow the next holy grail will.


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> Maybe tomorrow the next holy grail will.


Until it is deposed by a holier grail after it…


----------



## jonathan c (Jul 22, 2021)

bcowen said:


> If you use USPS Informed Delivery, you can add a nickname to a package once tracking is established.  Kind of a neat idea especially if you have a number of packages incoming so you can see what's what without having to look up tracking numbers.  But one word of warning: don't nickname it with an actual or desirable tube name.  I had a Western Electric 421A incoming that I nicknamed 'WE 421A' and tracking showed no movement the day after I labeled it. That was 6 months ago, still no tube. Then a TungSol 5998 I named 'TS5998.' Same thing...tracking movement stopped the day after I named it, and that was 5 months ago.  Now I just name things with something I can recognize, like 'Used cat litter' or 'GE Tube' and nothing has gone missing since.  Coincidence?


Because used cat litter and GE tubes are not worth absconding with…….Another thought: suppose the carriers read these threads and posts and realised the value (to us) of Footscrays etc…would these ever be delivered?…_rerouted to Bangybang, menifee, wege_high_tubes?…_


----------



## Ripper2860

I'm awaiting the disovery of 'The Rapture Tube'.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 23, 2021)

billerb1 said:


> Nothing does snare drums like the Brimar CV455's.


No doubt man!  That is one of their many strengths for sure.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Maybe tomorrow the next holy grail will.


Definitely a possibility.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 23, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Until it is deposed by a holier grail after it…


. . and again definitely a possibility.


----------



## Wes S

I know many wish there was one tube to rule them all . . .however there is not and that's a good thing in my opinion.  I myself get bored with just one sound, no matter how good it is, so having a trio of equal caliber tubes is a dream come true if you ask me.  Why limit yourself to just one tube?  I am taking a page from @TK16, and will continue to rotate through several tubes instead of just one.  If any of you 1 tube guys's ever get the itch, I suggest looking for a 6201 PW or Tungsram ECC82 Black Welded Plate Disc Getter.

The weekend has begun (got to love the 4 day work week schedule), it's time for some musical bliss and rolling my trio of tubes.  Happy rolling, and listening or just listening, whatever your preference.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I know many wish there was one tube to rule them all . . .however there is not and that's a good thing in my opinion.  I myself get bored with just one sound, no matter how good it is, so having a trio of equal caliber tubes is a dream come true if you ask me.  Why limit yourself to just one tube?  I am taking a page from @TK16, and will continue to rotate through several tubes instead of just one.  If any of you 1 tube guys's ever get the itch, I suggest looking for a 6201 PW or Tungsram ECC82 Black Welded Plate Disc Getter.
> 
> The weekend has begun (got to love the 4 day work week schedule), it's time for some musical bliss and rolling my trio of tubes.  Happy rolling, and listening or just listening, whatever your preference.


My tubes are in my city. Found the date code in this .pdf May 1955.
https://manualzz.com/doc/12301036/philipscodelistab-v1..


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> My tubes are in my city. Found the date code in this .pdf May 1955.
> https://manualzz.com/doc/12301036/philipscodelistab-v1..


Awesome on both accounts!  Thanks for sharing.


----------



## TK16

Well fellows do not read anymore after this sentence. Found another holy grail Hamburg ecc82 I received from @Wes S  quite different than the 56 square getter Hamburg ecc82 and my 56/57 D getter Hamburg. These are the perfect combo of warmth and detail, holographic etc rivaling the LP 7316 D-getter. All 3 of these Hamburg 's are holy grails with different sound sig. I usually suck at describing exactly what I'm hearing. So I got several holy grails and do not want anybody discovering any more!


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Well fellows do not read anymore after this sentence. Found another holy grail Hamburg ecc82 I received from @Wes S  quite different than the 56 square getter Hamburg ecc82 and my 56/57 D getter Hamburg. These are the perfect combo of warmth and detail, holographic etc rivaling the LP 7316 D-getter. All 3 of these Hamburg 's are holy grails with different sound sig. I usually suck at describing exactly what I'm hearing. So I got several holy grails and do not want anybody discovering any more!


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


>


Lmao, you must of read past the first sentence.


----------



## billerb1

You're just like all the others.  My illusion is shattered.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 24, 2021)

TK16 said:


> Well fellows do not read anymore after this sentence. Found another holy grail Hamburg ecc82 I received from @Wes S  quite different than the 56 square getter Hamburg ecc82 and my 56/57 D getter Hamburg. These are the perfect combo of warmth and detail, holographic etc rivaling the LP 7316 D-getter. All 3 of these Hamburg 's are holy grails with different sound sig. I usually suck at describing exactly what I'm hearing. So I got several holy grails and do not want anybody discovering any more!


I had a feeling you would love them!  That pair is a rare as they come and I am really glad they ended up with you.  Nothing better than having a Trio of "Holy Grails".


----------



## Wes S (Jul 24, 2021)

Got to love the 12A_7 family of tubes!  There's enough "Holy Grail" level tubes to satisfy us all, and keep things interesting no doubt.

My Trio of "Holy Grails" - Tungsram Tilburg ECC82 Black Welded Plate Disk Getter, Brimar CV455 FSG 56', and last but definitely not least the 6201 Hamburg  PWTMDG 58'.  No ranking necessary, as they are all equal and special in their own unique ways.

Long live the 12A_7's!


----------



## TK16

If I were to spend $495 on a pair of tubes (I won't btw) it would be this pair of NOS+ testing tubes.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...4-9764-41f5-b905-16568bf9fcd5&redirect=mobile


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Got to love the 12A_7 family of tubes!  There's enough "Holy Grail" level tubes to satisfy us all, and keep things interesting no doubt.
> 
> My Trio of "Holy Grails" - Tungsram Tilburg ECC82 Black Welded Plate Disk Getter, Brimar CV455 FSG 56', and last but definitely not least the 6201 Hamburg  PWTMDG 58'.  No ranking necessary, as they are all equal and special in their own unique ways.
> 
> Long live the 12A_7's!


It's great to have 3 different holy grail Hamburg ECC82 plus my other holy grail Hamburg 6201 PW. I put in my abysmal testing Df1 58 along with my single Vg0 59 that's awaiting a high testing Vg0 incoming soon. Pure eargasm!


----------



## Wes S (Jul 24, 2021)

TK16 said:


> If I were to spend $495 on a pair of tubes (I won't btw) it would be this pair of NOS+ testing tubes.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Welded-Plate-Philips-Amperex-12AU7-ECC82-D-Getter-Copenhagen-1953/114903734724?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=e11b9ce85c914f93ab345e100f864195&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=114903734724&itm=114903734724&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=Amperex,pageci:6648df20-ec81-11eb-865a-d67029b9e26f|parentrq:d8a93c3917a0ab8edbc96b39fff9123a|iid:1&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&pageci=2deed764-9764-41f5-b905-16568bf9fcd5&redirect=mobile


Wow!  Great seller and tubes I have always wanted to hear!


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> It's great to have 3 different holy grail Hamburg ECC82 plus my other holy grail Hamburg 6201 PW. I put in my abysmal testing Df1 58 along with my single Vg0 59 that's awaiting a high testing Vg0 incoming soon. Pure eargasm!


They must have had Magicians working in the Hamburg plant in the 50's, because some truly magical stuff came out of there during that time period!


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> They must have had Magicians working in the Hamburg plant in the 50's, because some truly magical stuff came out of there during that time period!


The Hamburg PCC88 PW one of the best ECC88 variants I still have. Sounds similar to the 56 Hamburg square getter ECC82. Not in 12AT7, 6201 PW, 12AU7 territory though.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Well fellows do not read anymore after this sentence. Found another holy grail Hamburg ecc82 I received from @Wes S  quite different than the 56 square getter Hamburg ecc82 and my 56/57 D getter Hamburg. These are the perfect combo of warmth and detail, holographic etc rivaling the LP 7316 D-getter. All 3 of these Hamburg 's are holy grails with different sound sig. I usually suck at describing exactly what I'm hearing. So I got several holy grails and do not want anybody discovering any more!


OK, but I'm dying to know what you wrote.  Can you PM it to me maybe?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> OK, but I'm dying to know what you wrote.  Can you PM it to me maybe?


Going to save you some cash, grab a hammer and smash every TV, cell fone, tablet and computer and pc monitor you have. You can keep an old school rotary dial landline phone. Your welcome. 🤣


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Going to save you some cash, grab a hammer and smash every TV, cell fone, tablet and computer and pc monitor you have. You can keep an old school rotary dial landline phone. Your welcome. 🤣


This is the first time anybody in this thread has ever posted something that will *save* me money.  Thanks TK!


----------



## G0rt

bcowen said:


> This is the first time anybody in this thread has ever posted something that will *save* me money.  Thanks TK!


----------



## Ripper2860

bcowen said:


> This is the first time anybody in this thread has ever posted something that will *save* me money.  Thanks TK!


Be afraid. Be very afraid.


----------



## jonathan c (Jul 24, 2021)

TK16 said:


> ….So I got several holy grails and do not want anybody discovering any more….


A thermionic polytheist (bcowen says w-t-f is that?) fearing more gods…


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> A thermionic polytheist (bcowen says w-t-f is that?) fearing more gods…


Oh, I know what a polytheist is, but you _did_ make me look up w-t-f.


----------



## Ripper2860

Yeah.  Bill uses that to hold his dentures in place.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Oh, I know what a polytheist is, but you _did_ make me look up w-t-f.


When Tubes Fly…


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> Yeah.  Bill uses that to hold his dentures in place.


Especially when gritting them during a Marilyn Mansothon…


----------



## TK16

Just found ANOTHER holy grail. @billerb1 and others do NOT read further! 😁
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-rare-new...2-4bdf-4d44-8759-1e699fa4922c&redirect=mobile


PS this is meant to be a joke. Wouldn't recommend them.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Just found ANOTHER holy grail. @billerb1 and others do NOT read further! 😁
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-rare-new...2-4bdf-4d44-8759-1e699fa4922c&redirect=mobile
> 
> 
> PS this is meant to be a joke. Wouldn't recommend them.


LOL!  The 14.2 *amps* of heater current might be a wee bit much for the MJ2.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> LOL!  The 14.2 *amps* of heater current might be a wee bit much for the MJ2.


Isn't that in the high range but within tolerance? Got 1 coming not recommended then? Lmao.


----------



## bcowen (Jul 25, 2021)

TK16 said:


> Isn't that in the high range but within tolerance? Got 1 coming not recommended then? Lmao.


Well, since they are single triodes you'd need 4 and I think 56.8 total amps is very slightly above the tolerance threshold.  But you never know for sure until you try.  And as a bonus if you need to weld anything the MJ2 could then serve a dual purpose.  The more burning question though is whether there's a Footscray version.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Well, since they are single triodes you'd need 4 and I think 56.8 total amps is very slightly above the tolerance threshold.  But you never know for sure until you try.  And as a bonus if you need to weld anything the MJ2 could then serve a dual purpose.  The more burning question though is whether there's a Footscray version.


I called the Footscray plant and the switchboard operator died like 60 years ago of old age but the grandson put me through. It's now a fish and chips restaurant.


----------



## M-83

Having a chill session with ZMF Vérité Open.

Been a busy weekend and am shattered.

Enjoy this gorgeous track:


----------



## regaet

billerb1 said:


> Nothing does snare drums like the Brimar CV455's.


Have you heard Charly Antolini play B4c? If you haven't it's worth a listen.


----------



## TK16

Those of you that only need 1 ECC82 in your amp. Payback time for all my recent purchases. 😁 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11475991815
Fantastic testing great seller.


----------



## G0rt

7728's arriving today! They say, but we Know how They are. Hostage situation...


----------



## Wes S (Jul 26, 2021)

TK16 said:


> Those of you that only need 1 ECC82 in your amp. Payback time for all my recent purchases. 😁
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/11475991815
> Fantastic testing great seller.


Nothing comes up?


----------



## TK16 (Jul 26, 2021)

Disregard.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/114759918158?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=7c3f95baa49945af9cfb009c3a2d1208&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=114759918158&itm=114759918158&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=Amperex&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:f967ad16-ee14-11eb-b8a9-cacf1546650b|parentrq:e2fe1a2a17a0a647d95970a3fff94dda|iid:1


Nice!  How would you compare that tube to the Hamburg's?


----------



## TK16 (Jul 26, 2021)

Wes S said:


> Nice!  How would you compare that tube to the Hamburg's?


Which Hamburg ECC82? Got 3 pair with different sound signatures. If you heard the latter Heerlen long plates ECC82 they have a bit more magic compared to those. Not night and day differences. You probably already know if you ask him for a reasonable offer he'll take it.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Which Hamburg ECC82? Got 3 pair with different sound signatures. If you heard the latter Heerlen long plates ECC82 they have a bit more magic compared to those. Not night and day differences. You probably already know if you ask him for a reasonable offer he'll take it.


Nice, and I think I actually might have a few of those Herleen Angled Getters from 56' now that I think about it, and will give them a shot sometime this week.  I always assumed they sounded the same as the latter with the raised Foil D, so now I am intrigued.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Nice, and I think I actually might have a few of those Herleen Angled Getters from 56' now that I think about it, and will give them a shot sometime this week.  I always assumed they sounded the same as the latter with the raised Foil D, so now I am intrigued.


Well that kills my attempt to get you to spend $. 😃
I'd give them a shot soon.


----------



## billerb1

regaet said:


> Have you heard Charly Antolini play B4c? If you haven't it's worth a listen.


No.  I'll check him out.  Thanks !


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> LOL!  The 14.2 *amps* of heater current might be a wee bit much for the MJ2.


But with an amp factor of 130, it’ll be great 🤪 while it _*barely*_ lasts…


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 26, 2021)

G0rt said:


> 7728's arriving today! They say, but we Know how They are. Hostage situation...



I love my Raytheon Uniline 7728s.  Is the The Brimar 'Footsie' CV455 a worthy contender to the 7728?  Can it best one of the best?  I'll find out soon enough --* MY CV455s ARRIVED TODAY!!  *


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> I love my Raytheon Uniline 7728s.  Is the The Brimar 'Footsie' CV455 a worthy contender to the 7728?  Can it best one of the best?  I'll find out soon enough *as MY CV455s ARRIVED TODAY!!  *


You got a tester right? Test those bro.


----------



## Ripper2860

TK16 said:


> You got a tester right? Test those bro.


I do and I will.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> I do and I will.


Forget what tester is it a Hickok 752? Mine tested those at 3,700-3,700 and 3,000-3,000. They mailed out a replacement for the latter.


----------



## Ripper2860

Nothing that nice.  I have B&K 700 Mutual Conductance tester -- re-furbished and calibrated by @bcowen.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 26, 2021)

Ripper2860 said:


> I love my Raytheon Uniline 7728s.  Is the The Brimar 'Footsie' CV455 a worthy contender to the 7728?  Can it best one of the best?  I'll find out soon enough --* MY CV455s ARRIVED TODAY!!  *


Just to throw this out there in regards to the 7728, there are actually 3 versions.  There are 2 versions with 1 hole in the plate, with 1 made by Raytheon and 1 made by CBS, then there is the 2 hole in plate version made by Raytheon.  The 7728 1 hole version CBS or Raytheon comes close to the CV455, and the 2 hole can't hang with either.


----------



## roman410 (Jul 26, 2021)

Ripper2860 said:


> I love my Raytheon Uniline 7728s.  Is the The Brimar 'Footsie' CV455 a worthy contender to the 7728?  Can it best one of the best?  I'll find out soon enough --* MY CV455s ARRIVED TODAY!!  *


I received my package from England today too🍻. Will fire up them tonight, right after come home from work.


----------



## Wes S

roman410 said:


> I received my package from England today too🍻. Will fire up them tonight, right after come home from work.


I got my spare CV455's and my 6060 Lab Sample delivered today as well.  Looks like USPS got off their butts and did some work this past weekend.   Fun times ahead.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I got my spare CV455's and my 6060 Lab Sample delivered today as well.  Looks like USPS got off their butts and did some work this past weekend.   Fun times ahead.


They ain't too concerned with my 6201 PW, it's been on "origin post is preparing shipment" for a week, though it might not be in the US yet.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 26, 2021)

Wes S said:


> Just to throw this out there in regards to the 7728, there are actually 3 versions.  There are 2 versions with 1 hole in the plate, with 1 made by Raytheon and 1 made by CBS, then there is the 2 hole in plate version made by Raytheon.  The 7728 1 hole version CBS or Raytheon comes close to the CV455, and the 2 hole can't hang with either.


I bought the gold pin Raytheon Uniline 7728s you sent me the link for from seller TubeRoom on eBay.  Same seller you and Sam bought yours from.   I'll check the plate structure when I get home.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 26, 2021)

Ripper2860 said:


> I bought the gold pin Raytheon Uniline 7728s you sent me the link for from seller TubeRoom on eBay.  Same seller you and Sam bought yours from.   I'll check the plate structure when I get home.


I believe that seller had both at one point, so I am curious which version you got.  The discovery of the 2 hole vs. 1 hole came about a bit after I made that suggestion.


----------



## G0rt

Christmas in July! Wes' pair of Raytheon 1-hole 7728 came in today as well, so round, so firm, so fully packed...

I've only had an hour or so with them, but they're a treat. 

What struck me instantly was the blackground, stage depth and speed. Some of that may wear off as they burn in, but their quality is unmistakable.


----------



## TK16

G0rt said:


> Christmas in July! Wes' pair of Raytheon 1-hole 7728 came in today as well, so round, so firm, so fully packed...
> 
> I've only had an hour or so with them, but they're a treat.
> 
> What struck me instantly was the blackground, stage depth and speed. Some of that may wear off as they burn in, but their quality is unmistakable.


It took me about an hour to unpack the tubes I got Friday from @Wes S they were so carefully packed.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 26, 2021)

G0rt said:


> Christmas in July! Wes' pair of Raytheon 1-hole 7728 came in today as well, so round, so firm, so fully packed...
> 
> I've only had an hour or so with them, but they're a treat.
> 
> What struck me instantly was the blackground, stage depth and speed. Some of that may wear off as they burn in, but their quality is unmistakable.


Heck yeah brother!  I love those tubes, and I am glad you are digging them too!  Really great description as well.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> It took me about an hour to unpack the tubes I got Friday from @Wes S they were so carefully packed.


LOL!!  I don't mess around when it comes to packaging.


----------



## Zurv

I think wes needs a unit that uses 6sn7... gogoog.. find us some nice tubes


----------



## Wes S (Jul 26, 2021)

Zurv said:


> I think wes needs a unit that uses 6sn7... gogoog.. find us some nice tubes


Been there done that.    I prefer the 12A_7 family of tubes over the 6SN7, so I sold all mine.  The Tung Sol 6SN7GT Black Glass Round Plate is tops with that tube family.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 26, 2021)

*MF'er!!!!*  My Ratheon Uniline 7728s are the 2 hole version.   

Obviously someone at the factory made a mistake because they still sound AWESOME. I don't care how many freaking holes it has!!

Now, I'm off to measure the CV455s and plug those bad boys into my non-MJ2 amp.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> MF'er!!!!  My Ratheon Uniline 7728s are the 2 hole version.
> 
> Obviously someone at the factory made a mistake because they still sound AWESOME. I don't care how many freaking holes it has!!
> 
> Now, I'm off to measure the CV455s and plug those bad boys into my non-MJ2 amp.


Interested in the testing numbers though @bcowen  calibrated it so it's probably wonky. 😉


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> *MF'er!!!!* My Ratheon Uniline 7728s are the 2 hole version.
> 
> Obviously someone at the factory made a mistake because they still sound AWESOME. I don't care how many freaking holes it has!!
> 
> Now, I'm off to measure the CV455s and plug those bad boys into my non-MJ2 amp.


The 1 hole isn't really "better" it is just preferred by me, both are insanely good tubes.

I can't wait to hear your thoughts on the CV455.


----------



## TK16

Man these awesome tubes keep getting more expensive. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...4-1122-4eec-bda1-898b8d209588&redirect=mobile


----------



## Ripper2860

TK16 said:


> Interested in the testing numbers though @bcowen  calibrated it so it's probably wonky. 😉


My CV455s tested as follows:

Tube #1 -- 100/99
Tube #2 -- 99/90


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Interested in the testing numbers though @bcowen  calibrated it so it's probably wonky. 😉


That's Willy Wonky.  What else would you expect from someone named Bill?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> That's Willy Wonky.  What else would you expect from someone named Bill?


Judging by the Bill's on this forum, not much. 😂


----------



## roman410

My CV455 tubes have printed date codes: 1B6 and 4B6. It is that meaning they was made first and fourth week of february 1956?

On what conditions do you guys received them from Langrex?  My pair, one looks unused, the second  have sign of previously usage, the flash getter it is visible darker. Unfortunately I do not have tube tester to measure them.


----------



## jonathan c

roman410 said:


> My CV455 tubes have printed date codes: 1B6 and 4B6. It is that meaning they was made first and fourth week of february 1956?
> 
> On what conditions do you guys received them from Langrex?  My pair, one looks unused, the second  have sign of previously usage, the flash getter it is visible darker. Unfortunately I do not have tube tester to measure them.


On the various orders of CV455 from Langrex, all have looked unused - no sign of prior use - as my experience.


----------



## Ripper2860

Mine definitely looked NOS.  No sign of wear.


----------



## Wes S

roman410 said:


> My CV455 tubes have printed date codes: 1B6 and 4B6. It is that meaning they was made first and fourth week of february 1956?
> 
> On what conditions do you guys received them from Langrex?  My pair, one looks unused, the second  have sign of previously usage, the flash getter it is visible darker. Unfortunately I do not have tube tester to measure them.


Mine have all looked NOS, however it's impossible to tell the life of a tube from the getter flash.  Some NOS tubes just have darker flashing and more of it and some have less, so I wouldn't count that tube as used just based off looks.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 27, 2021)

I have this tube burning in and playing in my amp at the moment, and man oh man so far it is absolutely killer!  There is a square getter under that flashing and it was made in Footscray.    The ultimate Brimar TMSG version perhaps . . .


----------



## TK16

roman410 said:


> My CV455 tubes have printed date codes: 1B6 and 4B6. It is that meaning they was made first and fourth week of february 1956?
> 
> On what conditions do you guys received them from Langrex?  My pair, one looks unused, the second  have sign of previously usage, the flash getter it is visible darker. Unfortunately I do not have tube tester to measure them.


Yep 1st number is week next letter is the month and 6 is the year 56.


----------



## Zurv

Wes S said:


> I have this tube burning in and playing in my amp at the moment, and man oh man so far it is absolutely killer!  There is a square getter under that flashing and it was made in Footscray.    The ultimate Brimar TMSG version perhaps . . .


SHUT IT! i have too many tubes already!


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I have this tube burning in and playing in my amp at the moment, and man oh man so far it is absolutely killer!  There is a square getter under that flashing and it was made in Footscray.    The ultimate Brimar TMSG version perhaps . . .


----------



## Wes S

Zurv said:


> SHUT IT! i have too many tubes already!


No worries, as that tube will most likely never surface again.  I just thought it was cool to see and share info and pics about a super rare tube.


----------



## Zurv

Wes S said:


> No worries, as that tube will most likely never surface again.  I just thought it was cool to see and share info and pics about a super rare tube.


did you get it from pulse?
https://pulsetubestore.com/products...cc82-cv4003-12au7-13d5-plug-play-ready-to-use


----------



## jonathan c

Zurv said:


> SHUT IT! i have too many tubes already!


At least Pulse Engineering / Pulse Tube Store is sold out of the laboratory version. Restock seems unlikely….a higher probability of Philips ECG tubes sounding good…


----------



## Wes S (Jul 27, 2021)

Zurv said:


> did you get it from pulse?
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products...cc82-cv4003-12au7-13d5-plug-play-ready-to-use


No, I got it from Langrex and they literally had that single 6060 Lab Sample listed for months, and I am glad that nobody picked it up before I could buy it.

I am done with the Flying Leads tubes, as I prefer the look and sound of regular tubes.  Nothing against Pulse at all, just don't care for their tubes.


----------



## roman410

Wes S said:


> Mine have all looked NOS, however it's impossible to tell the life of a tube from the getter flash.  Some NOS tubes just have darker flashing and more of it and some have less, so I wouldn't count that tube as used just based off looks.


It is definitely weird, but we do not buy tubes how they look, but how they sound. And so far I like what I hear!


----------



## roman410

TK16 said:


> Yep 1st number is week next letter is the month and 6 is the year 56.


And what that: /980  mean on the date codes?


----------



## TK16

roman410 said:


> And what that: /980  mean on the date codes?


Change code for the tube, got no info what /980 signifies specifically.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 27, 2021)

roman410 said:


> And what that: /980  mean on the date codes?


That is the code for tube type.


----------



## TK16

Has anyone heard both the 7316 O getter ct1 1959 and the 1959 ct2 D getter. The O getter May 59 and the D getter is July 59? Looking to run them both as a pair. The O getter is actually the older tube by 2 months.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> I have this tube burning in and playing in my amp at the moment, and man oh man so far it is absolutely killer!  There is a square getter under that flashing and it was made in Footscray.    The ultimate Brimar TMSG version perhaps . . .


If you keep this up, we're gonna turn you into a laboratory sample.  Or experiment.  Or something.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Oh boy. What an idiot I am 🤦‍♂️. I thought this thread went dead because I wasn't getting alerts. 6 fkn pages later and you've all been on a roll and Wes is buying up all the Holy Grail real-estate 😂😂😂

Fortunately I thought to scan my followed threads 😒

Finally got a reply from Langrex. They're shipping me another set of the tubes I bought. I told them should the first batch arrive I'd contact them to send them back lol. 

I'm really curious to see what these mystery Eindhoven/Venolanda tubes bring to the table. In the meantime I purchased a pair of Focal Clear Pro MG to compare against the the OG Pro I already have. My OG's will be on the market soon lol. 

Gotta catch up on this thread. See what happens when work turns you into a zombie? 😂


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> See what happens when work turns you into a zombie? 😂


Yes, we all know (well, except @Ripper2860 who's always a zombie).  But glad to see you back!!


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> If you keep this up, we're gonna turn you into a laboratory sample.  Or experiment.  Or something.


Better to be a laboratory sample than a stool ******.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Better to be a laboratory sample than a stool ******.


You're second on the list, right after @Wes S .


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> Yes, we all know (well, except @Ripper2860 who's always a zombie).  But glad to see you back!!


I can't believe how many pages went by 😂


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Oh boy. What an idiot I am 🤦‍♂️. I thought this thread went dead because I wasn't getting alerts. 6 fkn pages later and you've all been on a roll and Wes is buying up all the Holy Grail real-estate 😂😂😂
> 
> Fortunately I thought to scan my followed threads 😒
> 
> ...


Regarding sending back extra sets. 🤐🤐🤐🤐


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> If you keep this up, we're gonna turn you into a laboratory sample.  Or experiment.  Or something.


Wes S getting libations ready for lab tube sessions…


----------



## G0rt

Yesterday, while I was listening, the new 7728's had that same funny thing happen that I've noticed with the '57 halo Footscrays and others, where the entire headstage comes suddenly into sharper focus. 

It's not subtle, and always happens within the first 15 hours, if at all. Whatever causes it, it's very entertaining to witness.

The 7728's have scary good imaging anyway, and just keep getting better. In a dark room at 5am and quiet, you could just about forget where you are.

I don't know from holy grails, but holy hand grenades I know.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 28, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Wes S getting libations ready for lab tube sessions…


Speaking of said lab tube. . .look how bad ass this tube looks!  I wish y'all could see it in person as it really does look special.  Luckily this tube is dead quite and sounds as good as it looks.  Hell, I would probably keep it even if it was noisy, just as a collectors item.

Look at that cool and rare looking label.  Also, just looking closely at the construction of the tube, and everything looks perfectly symmetrical as if they were trying to make it perfect so as to be a proper representative of what the tube will be. 





Square Getter shot.





More to come on the sound of this tube. . .if I can ever bring myself to pull the Tungsram ECC82 Black Welded Plate, as I am enjoying that tube way too much right now.


----------



## Wes S

G0rt said:


> Yesterday, while I was listening, the new 7728's had that same funny thing happen that I've noticed with the '57 halo Footscrays and others, where the entire headstage comes suddenly into sharper focus.
> 
> It's not subtle, and always happens within the first 15 hours, if at all. Whatever causes it, it's very entertaining to witness.
> 
> ...


Heck yeah bro!  You are hearing the magic of the 7728 1 hole.  I think it takes about 15 minutes for the brain to adjust to the amazing sound, as that same things happens to me with this tube.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> I can't believe how many pages went by 😂


Hey bro!  Good to see you back, and I was honestly getting worried you had enough of us.


----------



## G0rt

Wes S said:


> Heck yeah bro!  You are hearing the magic of the 7728 1 hole.  I think it takes about 15 minutes for the brain to adjust to the amazing sound, as that same things happens to me with this tube.


The current configuration is probably a perfect storm for holography:

OG Gungnir Multibit =>
Mjolnir2 (7728) => 
HD800/SDR (Draug2, Elite Hybrid)

Sometimes, I even think I'm done...🤣


----------



## Wes S (Jul 28, 2021)

Sleeper tube brand of the year for me has got to be Tungsram folks.  I rolled in my second pair of Black Welded Plate Disc Getters last night in my RH-5, and man oh man this really is another very very special tube.  The way this tube throws huge 3D images is insane, and the musicians and instruments are all fully fleshed out, and everything has it's own space and seems very true to size.  The impact and transparency of this tube combined with that insane imaging, and massively open stage really makes things sound very lifelike.  With everything having it's own space, I can really hear every little nuance, and even more than with the CV455 or 6201.  Yep, I just said that.   The stage with this tube is massive in all directions and literally opens up to where the headphones disappear, and once again it's as if I was "There".  The notes have this amazing texture that is incredibly lifelike sounding, and I can feel the music.  The bass hits hard as well and is tight and accurate sounding too.  I really could go on and on, but basically this tube is perfect in every way, as in sounding so freaking lifelike it is spooky! The Tungsram ECC82 Black Welded Plate Disk Getter really is a perfect tube.

 The funny thing about this tube is I have had a single for months before any of the Footscray tubes came about, and I only gave it a listen to see if I could sell it.  I was not expecting it to sound this incredible, and luckily the second I discovered it was magic, I immediately hopped on ebay and found 3 more.   The really cool thing about this tube, and the icing on the cake, is that I have not spent more than $60 bucks per tube.  

Compared to the CV455 the Tungsram BWPDG is more open sounding, with bigger  images, and is a bit more transparent as well.  The CV455 has more of a mid bass focus and the Tungsram is more subbass focused.  The CV455 puts me inside the music, and the Tungsram puts me "There" with the musicians.  I love them both.


----------



## Wes S

G0rt said:


> The current configuration is probably a perfect storm for holography:
> 
> OG Gungnir Multibit =>
> Mjolnir2 (7728) =>
> ...


Yes sir!  That is some serious synergy you got going on right there.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 28, 2021)

My avatar has been updated, and let's see how long I keep this one. . .  Long live Tungsram!


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> My avatar has been updated, and let's see how long I keep this one. . .  Long live Tungsram!


Thought it was in honor of my first name? 😢


----------



## Wes S (Jul 28, 2021)

For those interested, comparison of 6201 PWTMDG and Tungsram BWPDG coming shortly. . .

Spoiler - They are very close, but one of them is just a bit better in a few certain areas.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> For those interested, comparison of 6201 PWTMDG and Tungsram BWPDG coming shortly. . .
> 
> Spoiler - They are very close, but one of them is just a bit better in a few certain areas.


Can you compare tubes that I already own like the k61 45 degree D getter Heerlen? If only to save me money.
😂


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Can you compare tubes that I already own like the k61 45 degree D getter Heerlen? If only to save me money.
> 😂


You are the first person that comes to mind, when I think about who else would love the Tungsram.  This particular version of Tungsram with Black Welded Plates and Disc Getters is kind of hard to find, but you have some serious skills at finding the rare ones, so I would just go ahead and add this tube to your list of tubes to find.  Also, singles seem to pop up more than pairs, so with your tester and tube finding skills, I bet you could find some soon and make a pair.  

I am curious myself how the K61 Herleen Angled D Getter compares and will listen to both tonight, and let you know how they compare.


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> Thought it was in honor of my first name? 😢


I thought that it was _*T*_he _*K*_ing (16th descendant)…


----------



## jonathan c

G0rt said:


> In a dark room at 5am and quiet, you could just about forget where you are.


I don’t need a holy grail tube for that to happen 😳…


----------



## Guidostrunk

Man.... I'm gonna have to snag a pair of these tungsrams. The madness never ends 😂


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Man.... I'm gonna have to snag a pair of these tungsrams. The madness never ends 😂


I'm standing pat, spent way too much recently on tubes.


----------



## Ripper2860

Nope.  I'm gonna wait til next week and see what tube will rule them all for that week.  Then I'm gonna wait another week just to be sure.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Sleeper tube brand of the year for me has got to be Tungsram folks.  I rolled in my second pair of Black Welded Plate Disc Getters last night in my RH-5, and man oh man this really is another very very special tube.  The way this tube throws huge 3D images is insane, and the musicians and instruments are all fully fleshed out, and everything has it's own space and seems very true to size.  The impact and transparency of this tube combined with that insane imaging, and massively open stage really makes things sound very lifelike.  With everything having it's own space, I can really hear every little nuance, and even more than with the CV455 or 6201.  Yep, I just said that.   The stage with this tube is massive in all directions and literally opens up to where the headphones disappear, and once again it's as if I was "There".  The notes have this amazing texture that is incredibly lifelike sounding, and I can feel the music.  The bass hits hard as well and is tight and accurate sounding too.  I really could go on and on, but basically this tube is perfect in every way, as in sounding so freaking lifelike it is spooky! The Tungsram ECC82 Black Welded Plate Disk Getter really is a perfect tube.
> 
> The funny thing about this tube is I have had a single for months before any of the Footscray tubes came about, and I only gave it a listen to see if I could sell it.  I was not expecting it to sound this incredible, and luckily the second I discovered it was magic, I immediately hopped on ebay and found 3 more.   The really cool thing about this tube, and the icing on the cake, is that I have not spent more than $60 bucks per tube.
> 
> Compared to the CV455 the Tungsram BWPDG is more open sounding, with bigger  images, and is a bit more transparent as well.  The CV455 has more of a mid bass focus and the Tungsram is more subbass focused.  The CV455 puts me inside the music, and the Tungsram puts me "There" with the musicians.  I love them both.


I found these bro. They actually have a dual post though. Not sure if these are what I'm looking for.


----------



## TK16

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tungsram-T...4-094b-4322-bbcf-94cf389f2c96&redirect=mobile
Think the ones you want look like these. Welded Plate single post no holes in the plates.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Sleeper tube brand of the year for me has got to be Tungsram folks.  I rolled in my second pair of Black Welded Plate Disc Getters last night in my RH-5, and man oh man this really is another very very special tube.  The way this tube throws huge 3D images is insane, and the musicians and instruments are all fully fleshed out, and everything has it's own space and seems very true to size.  The impact and transparency of this tube combined with that insane imaging, and massively open stage really makes things sound very lifelike.  With everything having it's own space, I can really hear every little nuance, and even more than with the CV455 or 6201.  Yep, I just said that.   The stage with this tube is massive in all directions and literally opens up to where the headphones disappear, and once again it's as if I was "There".  The notes have this amazing texture that is incredibly lifelike sounding, and I can feel the music.  The bass hits hard as well and is tight and accurate sounding too.  I really could go on and on, but basically this tube is perfect in every way, as in sounding so freaking lifelike it is spooky! The Tungsram ECC82 Black Welded Plate Disk Getter really is a perfect tube.
> 
> The funny thing about this tube is I have had a single for months before any of the Footscray tubes came about, and I only gave it a listen to see if I could sell it.  I was not expecting it to sound this incredible, and luckily the second I discovered it was magic, I immediately hopped on ebay and found 3 more.   The really cool thing about this tube, and the icing on the cake, is that I have not spent more than $60 bucks per tube.
> 
> Compared to the CV455 the Tungsram BWPDG is more open sounding, with bigger  images, and is a bit more transparent as well.  The CV455 has more of a mid bass focus and the Tungsram is more subbass focused.  The CV455 puts me inside the music, and the Tungsram puts me "There" with the musicians.  I love them both.


Dang it.  Now I'm gonna have to whip out my Tungsram ECC82's and take a close look at the innards.  Never paid much attention to them, and can't remember when I last listened to them.  Kind of silly, as the Tungsram E88CC's are my favorites in the Cary DAC...


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Can you compare tubes that I already own like the k61 45 degree D getter Heerlen? If only to save me money.
> 😂


That D-getter isn't angled on purpose. It's a weak spot in the post causing it to sag, and one of these days it will sag enough to contact the plate(s) and go ka_boom_.  Hope this helps.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> That D-getter isn't angled on purpose. It's a weak spot in the post causing it to sag, and one of these days it will sag enough to contact the plate(s) and go ka_boom_.  Hope this helps.


Lol it angles upward no downward. 🤣. Guess if your running your amp upside down you may have a point.


----------



## Ripper2860

Oh. Oh.  That means the getter holder post is sinking and will eventual short one of the pins!


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> Lol it angles upward no downward. 🤣. Guess if your running your amp upside down you may have a point.


Or in Australia…


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Lol it angles upward no downward. 🤣. Guess if your running your amp upside down you may have a point.


Huh?  Is that a trick question?  _Of course_ I run my amp upside down. Gravity stretches the plates and all tubes become long plate versions...eventually. Doesn't everybody do that?


----------



## Wes S (Jul 29, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> I found these bro. They actually have a dual post though. Not sure if these are what I'm looking for.


Not the right tube.  The Grey Plates don't have the magic.  Sorry bro!  I really want you to get a pair of the good ones.  Black Welded Plates is the first thing to look for, followed by the Disc Getters.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tungsram-Tilburg-ecc82-black-welded-plates-disc-getter-mullard-gec-telefunken/184576221513?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=5c28544e4dc74f38be26002ab4b7a216&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=184576221513&itm=184576221513&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=Mullard,pageci:166034fd-effd-11eb-ac3e-72aa547f960c|parentrq:ef7d002717a0a6e5bb055d38ffeb40b2|iid:1&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&pageci=ee5ff174-094b-4322-bbcf-94cf389f2c96&redirect=mobile
> Think the ones you want look like these. Welded Plate single post no holes in the plates.


Yep, those are them.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 29, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Man.... I'm gonna have to snag a pair of these tungsrams. The madness never ends 😂


You would love them bro.  They are killer tubes, with a very high immersion factor.  I wish I had a spare pair to send to you, so you could hear them, as they are that good.  However, all 3 of mine are currently being used in both my amps, and they are not coming out anytime soon.    Hell, I even scored Tungsram Welded Plate Disk Getters in EL84 and EZ81 form as well to use in my Pendant SE, so I am running nothing but Tungsram in both my amps at the moment, hence my new avatar.  Seriously folks, early Tungsram's are the bees knees!  I really hope one of you scores a pair someday soon, as I hope I am not the only one able to enjoy this insanely amazing tube.

Happy Hunting!


----------



## Wes S (Jul 29, 2021)

Those looking for the Tungsram Black Welded Plates on Ebay, make sure your search is Worldwide.  I have found mine from 2 different sellers in Hungary.


----------



## M-83 (Jul 29, 2021)

Had a mixed session tonight to compare ZMF Vérité Open, Kennerton Gjallarhorn, and Mrspeakers Alpha Primes.

I have used MJ2.

I concluded....

That VO is great on MJ2 but better suited to my Feliks Echo.

Gjallarhorn is awesome and punches way above its weight.

Mrspeakers Alpha Prime has long been my favourite headphone however it's time to move it on to a new owner. I only have the room in my collection for two headphone models, two amps and one dac.

Gjallarhorn and VO are complimentary and both are highly interoperable between MJ2 and Echo.

I've spent the majority of the evening with Gjallarhorn and MJ2.

I'm now aiming for a Feliks Elise to replace echo to allow VO to scale more.


----------



## M-83

Wes S said:


> Sleeper tube brand of the year for me has got to be Tungsram folks.  I rolled in my second pair of Black Welded Plate Disc Getters last night in my RH-5, and man oh man this really is another very very special tube.  The way this tube throws huge 3D images is insane, and the musicians and instruments are all fully fleshed out, and everything has it's own space and seems very true to size.  The impact and transparency of this tube combined with that insane imaging, and massively open stage really makes things sound very lifelike.  With everything having it's own space, I can really hear every little nuance, and even more than with the CV455 or 6201.  Yep, I just said that.   The stage with this tube is massive in all directions and literally opens up to where the headphones disappear, and once again it's as if I was "There".  The notes have this amazing texture that is incredibly lifelike sounding, and I can feel the music.  The bass hits hard as well and is tight and accurate sounding too.  I really could go on and on, but basically this tube is perfect in every way, as in sounding so freaking lifelike it is spooky! The Tungsram ECC82 Black Welded Plate Disk Getter really is a perfect tube.
> 
> The funny thing about this tube is I have had a single for months before any of the Footscray tubes came about, and I only gave it a listen to see if I could sell it.  I was not expecting it to sound this incredible, and luckily the second I discovered it was magic, I immediately hopped on ebay and found 3 more.   The really cool thing about this tube, and the icing on the cake, is that I have not spent more than $60 bucks per tube.
> 
> Compared to the CV455 the Tungsram BWPDG is more open sounding, with bigger  images, and is a bit more transparent as well.  The CV455 has more of a mid bass focus and the Tungsram is more subbass focused.  The CV455 puts me inside the music, and the Tungsram puts me "There" with the musicians.  I love them both.


I have a pair of tungsram 6922 tubes. They are awesome for EDM. It was a specific recommendation that Dan Clark gave me. I used them in my first Gumby and MJ2 rig back in the day and they were awesome.

If I didn't like the Footscrays so much, I'd be splitting my time between my tungsram 6922s and my Amperex ECC88 tubes.

The Amperex ECC88s are warmer than the Footscrays and have a gorgeous musicality that just gets my feet tapping.  These were my favourite tubes before I got the Footscrays.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 29, 2021)

I have a pair of noval Tungsram ecc40 Rimlock tubes with 6SN7 adapters and they do sound quite nice, as I recall.  May be time to roll them back into Lyr 3 or Incubus.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> I have a pair of noval Tungsram ecc40 Rimlock tubes with 6SN7 adapters and they do sound quite nice, as I recall.  May be time to roll them back into Lyr 3 or Incubus.


Agree on the ECC40's.  I first bought a pair of Philips Miniwatt (Dario). Total bleah. Then got the Tungsrams which are in a completely different league.  Haven't given them a whirl in the Incubus though.  And total bummer on my Tungsram ECC82's...they are all the short riveted gray plates.  Stupid stash.


----------



## Wes S (Jul 30, 2021)

For those looking for the ultimate version of the Tungsram ECC82 Black Welded Plate Disk Getter, here are some pics of a true "OG" from 56'.

Notice the logo is not yellow print, but actually acid etched and then there is also red printed numbers going down the side of the tube indicating a special selection military grade.  The early one's like this also have what looks like a "coin base".  So for reference, here is an example of a first version and the best of the best or what I like to call the "OG".








You can see the Black Plate, Disc Getter and Metal Tab in the pic below, which are helpful indicators it's the right tube.





Happy Hunting!


----------



## roman410

M-83 said:


> I have a pair of tungsram 6922 tubes. They are awesome for EDM. It was a specific recommendation that Dan Clark gave me. I used them in my first Gumby and MJ2 rig back in the day and they were awesome.
> 
> If I didn't like the Footscrays so much, I'd be splitting my time between my tungsram 6922s and my Amperex ECC88 tubes.
> 
> The Amperex ECC88s are warmer than the Footscrays and have a gorgeous musicality that just gets my feet tapping.  These were my favourite tubes before I got the Footscrays.


That's how I remember Amperex ECC88 Orange globe Heerlen late 60s
back the time in Schiit LYR. Preferred halo getter over dimple getter.
D getters Bugle Boys are even better, they have the "taste" of the best Amperex E88CC.


----------



## TK16 (Jul 30, 2021)

Just got my 59 O getter single and my 59 D getter I've had. Haven't listened the 7316 in couple months, fantastic sounding. Highly recommended.
Edit: I hereby do not authorize any new holy grails unless I own them. Thank you. 😁


----------



## Lvivske

you guys have an opinion on how many hours the Brimar 455's need to burn in to get to a place you were content with?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Edit: I hereby do not authorize any new holy grails unless I own them. Thank you. 😁


These _might_ be holy grail tubes, but they might not be.  Due to your new decree, I guess I won't be able to say.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lvivske said:


> you guys have an opinion on how many hours the Brimar 455's need to burn in to get to a place you were content with?


At least 50. No worries after 100.


----------



## Ripper2860

50 hours. According to my extensive research, all CV455s need 50 and as such are labeled 455 denoting 45+5 which equals 50.  VT-231s only need 24 hours.


----------



## Lvivske

Ripper2860 said:


> 50 hours. According to my extensive research, all CV455s need 50 and as such are labeled 455 denoting 45+5 which equals 50.  VT-231s only need 24 hours.


the math checks out


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> I have a pair of noval Tungsram ecc40 Rimlock tubes with 6SN7 adapters and they do sound quite nice, as I recall.  May be time to roll them back into Lyr 3 or Incubus.


My formula is different.  4+5-5=4 years.


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> 50 hours. According to my extensive research, all CV455s need 50 and as such are labeled 455 denoting 45+5 which equals 50.  VT-231s only need 24 hours.


I'm very happy you don't work in R&D for Boeing or NASA.


----------



## Lvivske

bcowen said:


> I'm very happy you don't work in R&D for Boeing or NASA.



He did work at Boeing...


----------



## bcowen

Lvivske said:


> He did work at Boeing...


Hopefully as a sanitation engineer.


----------



## jonathan c

Lvivske said:


> He did work at Boeing...


Is that why the 737 is rife with problems 😳😜?


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Is that why the 737 is rife with problems 😳😜?


Yeah, the poor 737 suffered the same horrific fate as the state of Texas.


----------



## Ripper2860

jonathan c said:


> Is that why the 737 is rife with problems 😳😜?


I know.  What a freaking mess.  I told them that I will not declare it airworthy until they offer lossless music and every seat has an integrated Room endpoint for customer use.


----------



## Ripper2860

bcowen said:


> Yeah, the poor 737 suffered the same horrific fate as the state of Texas.


Excellence is a heavy burden and a fate that we carry gladly. 😀


----------



## jonathan c

ERCOT:  Electricity Reliability Council of Texas. Think about that organisation…How about:  Excellence Rarely Centres on Texas…


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> ERCOT:  Electricity Reliability Council of Texas. Think about that organisation…How about:  Excellence Rarely Centres on Texas…


LOL!  Or *E*radicate *R*ipper; *C*reate *O*ptimism in *T*exas.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 31, 2021)

I always exclude government and pseudo-government agencies from my declarations about the greatness of my state.  It's the everyday people that make it great - not those ass-clowns.  😏


----------



## Lvivske

jonathan c said:


> Is that why the 737 is rife with problems 😳😜?


...and the 787


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> I always exclude government and pseudo-government agencies from my declarations about the greatness of my state.  It's the everyday people that make it great - not those ass-clowns.  😏


Unfortunately, the anagram to Texas is taxes…


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> LOL!  Or *E*radicate *E*lect *R*ipper; *C*reate *C*rush *O*ptimism in *T*exas.


FTFY…🤪😆…[Reg. TM; © bcowen: 2021]


----------



## jonathan c (Jul 31, 2021)

Just to get this thread back somewhere in the vicinity of the thread title, at least Schiit Audio makes products in Texas. _Please _bring back a tube/SS hybrid balanced headphone amplifier to the lineup!

Edit:  added ‘balanced’


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> I know.  What a freaking mess.  I told them that I will not declare it airworthy until they offer lossless music and every seat has an integrated Room endpoint for customer use.


Roon?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 31, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Unfortunately, the anagram to Texas is taxes.


Hmmm    Texas has no personal property tax and no state income tax with just a 6.5% sales tax on certain items.  It would be very unfortunate if folks thought that Texas was a heavy tax burden state.  🤔

But maybe it is better if they do, so yeah.  It's honerous and burdensome.  Stay away!  😏


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 31, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Roon?


A Roon and Room....

I hate autocorrect.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Just to get this thread back somewhere in the vicinity of the thread title, at least Schiit Audio makes products in Texas. _Please _bring back a tube/SS hybrid headphone amplifier to the lineup!


Well, there's still Lyr 3 and Vali 2.  I presume the upcoming Folkvangr will be all tube since it'll be sporting 10 of them, but I personally have no problem with that (and already stashed some nice Fotons in anticipation).


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Well, there's still Lyr 3 and Vali 2.  I presume the upcoming Folkvangr will be all tube since it'll be sporting 10 of them, but I personally have no problem with that (and already stashed some nice Fotons in anticipation).


I meant ‘balanced’ tube/SS hybrid headphone amplifier (edited post #5,454).


----------



## Ripper2860

I'm curious to see what if any plans there are to replace MJ2.


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> I always exclude government and pseudo-government agencies from my declarations about the greatness of my state.  It's the everyday people that make it great - not those ass-clowns.  😏


Amen brother!


----------



## Wes S (Aug 1, 2021)

bcowen said:


> Well, there's still Lyr 3 and Vali 2.  I presume the upcoming Folkvangr will be all tube since it'll be sporting 10 of them, but I personally have no problem with that (and already stashed some nice Fotons in anticipation).


I can only imagine the heat coming off that thing (Folkvangr). . .my room gets hot enough with just 4 tubes in my Pendant.   I would love to hear it though, as I saw a video where Jason said it was the best sounding amp he has made yet.  A very cool thing I heard about the Folkvangr is the 10 6N6P's don't have to be matched, which makes finding those Foton's much easier.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ripper2860 said:


> I always exclude government and pseudo-government agencies from my declarations about the greatness of my state.  It's the everyday people that make it great - not those ass-clowns.  😏


Absolutely! 🍻


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> I can only imagine the heat coming off that thing (Folkvangr). . .my room gets hot enough with just 4 tubes in my Pendant.   I would love to hear it though, as I saw a video where Jason said it was the best sounding amp he has made yet.  A very cool thing I heard about the Folkvangr is the 10 6N6P's don't have to be matched, which makes finding those Foton's much easier.


Wes?!?  Are you OK?  Are you suggesting that awesome audio isn't worth sweating for?  I'm concerned about you, man.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Wes?!?  Are you OK?  Are you suggesting that awesome audio isn't worth sweating for?  I'm concerned about you, man.


Just happy @Wes S  didn't come out with a new holy grail in a few days. Was waiting for the Heerlen 45 degree D comparison as I already own those. 😃


----------



## M-83

Wes S said:


> I can only imagine the heat coming off that thing (Folkvangr). . .my room gets hot enough with just 4 tubes in my Pendant.   I would love to hear it though, as I saw a video where Jason said it was the best sounding amp he has made yet.  A very cool thing I heard about the Folkvangr is the 10 6N6P's don't have to be matched, which makes finding those Foton's much easier.


Lol you can save on your heating bill in winter with ten tubes 😂 

Yes that's right about the tubes though it's "only" 8 tubes that can be unmatched:


----------



## M-83

Ripper2860 said:


> I'm curious to see what if any plans there are to replace MJ2.


I thought Jason had suggested no MJ2 replacement because Jot 2 is close enough in terms of performance, it's far easier to source parts for, and simpler to build.

Happy to be corrected though 😁


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 1, 2021)

I know, hence the word 'if'.  Jason has had a change of heart before, so one can never really close the door on anything except a Streamer, DAP, HDMI, DSD, MQA, and transducers.  I could envision a Lyr 3 type single tube amp hybrid with Nexus featuring balanced and SE in and out.  Not inherently balanced but providing balanced out/in for those that need/want it.   I do not see an evolution of the MJ2 amp but I still believe we could see a balanced tube hybrid.  That is unless the Folkvangr is balanced, which I don't think it is.  If there's a balanced tube amp introduced then I do not see a hybrid alongside in the line-up.

**All pure speculation on my part, of course.


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> I thought Jason had suggested no MJ2 replacement because Jot 2 is close enough in terms of performance, it's far easier to source parts for, and simpler to build.
> 
> Happy to be corrected though 😁


Still, the Jot II is no substitute for the MJ-II, particularly when the latter is cap modded. And when Footscrays come into the picture, the Jot II has to plead _nolo contendere _!


----------



## Wes S (Aug 1, 2021)

TK16 said:


> Just happy @Wes S  didn't come out with a new holy grail in a few days. Was waiting for the Heerlen 45 degree D comparison as I already own those. 😃


Nothing can hang with the Tungsram welded plates.  That is all have been using lately and will be using in both amps for the foreseeable future, they are that good and nothing comes close.


----------



## Ripper2860

Hmmm.  I  wonder how much money I would save if @Wes S were to suffer an extended Internet outage.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> Hmmm.  I  wonder how much money I would save if @Wes S were to suffer an extended Internet outage.


Being in Texas that is a good chance with the power grid. 😄


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> Hmmm.  I  wonder how much money I would save if @Wes S were to suffer an extended Internet outage.


LOL!  Yeah.  He needs to sell his MJ and get an amp that can use only Russian tubes.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 1, 2021)

@TK16 - The Texas power grid is perfectly fine.  Only an issue if it's too hot or too cold.

Besides.  Any issues with the grid is all due to folks illegally crossing the border and charging their iPhones once they arrive.  😏



**This post does not necessarily reflect the thoughts and opinions of Head-fi or the original  poster.


----------



## M-83

Ripper2860 said:


> I know, hence the word 'if'.  Jason has had a change of heart before, so one can never really close the door on anything except a Streamer, DAP, HDMI, DSD, MQA, and transducers.  I could envision a Lyr 3 type single tube amp hybrid with Nexus featuring balanced and SE in and out.  Not inherently balanced but providing balanced out/in for those that need/want it.   I do not see an evolution of the MJ2 amp but I still believe we could see a balanced tube hybrid.  That is unless the Folkvanger is balanced, which I do t think it is.  If there's a balanced tube amp introduced then I do not see a hybrid alongside in the line-up.
> 
> **All pure speculation on my part, of course.


Yeah we will see. I was only going on what Jason had publicly said but they may surprise us. The Folkvangr will hopefully be balanced. I'm going to hold off upgrading from Feliks Echo (even though it's single ended only) for the time being to see how Folkvangr performs and sounds, and the synergy with ZMF VO.


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> Still, the Jot II is no substitute for the MJ-II, particularly when the latter is cap modded. And when Footscrays come into the picture, the Jot II has to plead _nolo contendere _!


Agreed. There was no way I was going to "settle" with BF2 & Jot 2 over Gumby and MJ2. 

Still gotta work out who can help me with the cap mod in the UK.


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> @TK16 - The Texas power grid is perfectly fine.  Only an issue if it's too hot or too cold.
> 
> Besides.  Any issues with the grid is all due to folks illegally crossing the border and charging their iPhones once they arrive.  😏
> 
> ...


Heard a rumor that I just made up. Apparently it's mandatory to pull out the light bulb in the refrigerators during the winter and summer.


----------



## M-83

Currently blissing out to today's track share-


----------



## bcowen

M-83 said:


> Yeah we will see. I was only going on what Jason had publicly said but they may surprise us. The Folkvangr will hopefully be balanced. I'm going to hold off upgrading from Feliks Echo (even though it's single ended only) for the time being to see how Folkvangr performs and sounds, and the synergy with ZMF VO.


After seeing this, the Folkvangr may end up being a non-starter....for me anyway.  A 300B SET headphone amp has me salivating already.    

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/oblivion-ultrasonic-studios.902926/page-173#post-16483374


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ripper2860 said:


> Hmmm.  I  wonder how much money I would save if @Wes S were to suffer an extended Internet outage.


😂😂😂


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> After seeing this, the Folkvangr may end up being a non-starter....for me anyway.  A 300B SET headphone amp has me salivating already.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/oblivion-ultrasonic-studios.902926/page-173#post-16483374


That thing looks awesome! Also looks EXPENSIVE lol. Price?


----------



## M-83

bcowen said:


> After seeing this, the Folkvangr may end up being a non-starter....for me anyway.  A 300B SET headphone amp has me salivating already.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/oblivion-ultrasonic-studios.902926/page-173#post-16483374


That's stunning!


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> @TK16 - The Texas power grid is perfectly fine.  Only an issue if it's too hot or too cold.
> 
> Besides.  Any issues with the grid is all due to folks illegally crossing the border and charging their iPhones once they arrive.  😏
> 
> ...


Those would technically be mPhones.  Manzana and all....


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Heard a rumor that I just made up. Apparently it's mandatory to pull out the light bulb in the refrigerators during the winter and summer.


Only if the light stays on when the door is closed.  Easy enough to check though by opening the door and looking.


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> That thing looks awesome! Also looks EXPENSIVE lol. Price?


Not sure on the price.  Not cheap to be sure, but from what I've read his amps are sanely priced and based on cost rather than some inflated "high end" scheme.  Going to find out.


----------



## M-83

bcowen said:


> Only if the light stays on when the door is closed.  Easy enough to check though by opening the door and looking.


Schrödingers refrigerator


----------



## bcowen

M-83 said:


> Schrödingers refrigerator


Wasn't that the piano player in Peanuts?


----------



## M-83

Wasn't that the piano player in Peanuts?   


bcowen said:


>


Schro close!


----------



## Guidostrunk

M-83 said:


> Wasn't that the piano player in Peanuts?
> 
> Schro close!


🤣 nice!


----------



## M-83

Guidostrunk said:


> 🤣 nice!


Hehe 🤣


----------



## M-83

@Guidostrunk  By the way, I ordered the foton tubes you recommended for Echo. Should be here within a couple of weeks 😁


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> @TK16 - The Texas power grid is perfectly fine.  Only an issue if it's too hot or too cold.
> 
> Besides.  Any issues with the grid is all due to folks illegally crossing the border and charging their iPhones once they arrive.  😏
> 
> ...


Any issues with the grid is all due to folks (ERCOT is looking at you, Wes & Ripper!) furiously rolling newfound ‘holy grail’ tubes while banishing last week’s darlings…⚡️…🔥…💨…


----------



## kolkoo

Wes S said:


> Nothing can hang with the Tungsram welded plates.  That is all have been using lately and will be using in both amps for the foreseeable future, they are that good and nothing comes close.


Do you have a list of all the tubes you've tried and compared to them? I'm interested cause I have quite a few rare ones including some supposedly italian ones Fivre and Marconi Italia as well as Philips Monza + some early ECC81 Mitchams with 1552 codes and wrinkled glass. Some of 'em I like more some less, I haven't rolled in a while so my impressions are rusty but curious of yours, been maining a pair of Telefunken E88CC Fat getter gold rods from 1958 and letting my collection chill for a year.


----------



## Wes S (Aug 2, 2021)

.


----------



## Wes S

kolkoo said:


> Do you have a list of all the tubes you've tried and compared to them? I'm interested cause I have quite a few rare ones including some supposedly italian ones Fivre and Marconi Italia as well as Philips Monza + some early ECC81 Mitchams with 1552 codes and wrinkled glass. Some of 'em I like more some less, I haven't rolled in a while so my impressions are rusty but curious of yours, been maining a pair of Telefunken E88CC Fat getter gold rods from 1958 and letting my collection chill for a year.


I have been collecting, hunting, and rolling "Holy Grail" level tubes for years, and the Tungsram ECC82 Black Welded Plate Disk Getter best them all. The list of tubes I have rolled is quite long.

To name a few of the good ones off the top of my head -

1.  Raytheon 7730 Long Plate Angled Square Getter
2.  Valvo Hamburg ECC82 Long Plate Foil D Getter
3.  Philips Hamburg 6201 Pinched Waist Triple Mica D Getter 57'
4.  Lorenz ECC81 Foil D Getter
5.  Lorenz ECC82 Long Plate Square Getter
6.  Brimar CV455 FOOTSCRAY Triple Mica Square Getter
7.  Raytheon 7728
8.  CBS 7728
9.  Valvo Hamburg ECC81 Coin Base
10.  7316 Long Plate Foil D Getter
11.  CBS 5814a Black Plate
12.  Sylvania 5814a Gold Brand Triple Mica Square Getter Grey Plate
13.  Copenhagen ECC81 Welded Plate D Getter
14.  Brimar CV4034
15.  Brimar CV4033
16. Mazda 6189 silver plate triple mica 

There are many more, I just can't think of them at the moment. . .


----------



## Rowethren

Wes S said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> I have a new pair of CV455 with matching date codes of 4B6 (4th week of February 1956), that I am going to be listing for sale, and figured I would give ya'll first shot at them before I post the listing.  I am selling them for $95 for the pair shipped with Fedex 2nd day and only selling within U.S.
> 
> ...



I was interested until you said only in the U.S. sad times


----------



## Wes S (Aug 2, 2021)

.


----------



## G0rt

Roll, roll, roll your goats... (If you've ever wrestled Nigerian pygmy goats, you maybe know just how much fun That can be.)

Found 7728's slightly subject to environmental noise with low impedance cans (Grado, Elex) so rolled the '57 triple mica halo Footscrays back into MJ2. My favorite.

7728's are now in VH2, and are still fabulously holographic, perhaps even moreso than in MJ2. Fed from Bifrost 4490, there's a certain ... muscularity? ... of tone that's juicy and sweet but still incisive. Vinyl-ish. 😉

I'm thinking the 7728's bring out the very best of VH2, even moreso than the Oldway CV1988's I'd always enjoyed.


----------



## Wes S

G0rt said:


> Roll, roll, roll your goats... (If you've ever wrestled Nigerian pygmy goats, you maybe know just how much fun That can be.)
> 
> Found 7728's slightly subject to environmental noise with low impedance cans (Grado, Elex) so rolled the '57 triple mica halo Footscrays back into MJ2. My favorite.
> 
> ...


The 7728 were my favorite in the V2 when I had it.  The synergy with those 2 is incredible.


----------



## G0rt

Wes S said:


> The 7728 were my favorite in the V2 when I had it.  The synergy with those 2 is incredible.


This morning, listening to Stephen Baer with AT R70x, easily the most neutral cans I own, and I think VH2 sounds as good as I've ever heard it.

May be the 7728's pristine high end, where all the spatial cues live, also tames the VH2 tendency to warmth. Very, very Nice. 😁


----------



## TK16

LP 7316 D getter 58 pair auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-BECKM...1-d597-4821-8fdc-e5cd20e2c7bd&redirect=mobile


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> LP 7316 D getter 58 pair auction.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-BECKMAN-Holland-7316-Vacuum-Tubes-HICKOK-539C-TESTED/114918296874?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=cc8284d86e234464be8cb005c4f9d52c&pid=100675&rk=5&rkt=15&sd=224552930003&itm=114918296874&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=Unbranded,pageci:9752ca4e-f3d9-11eb-a6d1-fa1a13aee2fa|parentrq:08cb422817b0a45ea8ec3c30ffe46050|iid:1&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&pageci=06ece481-d597-4821-8fdc-e5cd20e2c7bd&redirect=mobile


Quit it Wes.  Oooops...it's TK today.  And they say Covid is contagious....


----------



## bcowen

G0rt said:


> (If you've ever wrestled Nigerian pygmy goats, you maybe know just how much fun That can be.)


Gonna have to sheepishly admit I've never done that.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Quit it Wes.  Oooops...it's TK today.  And they say Covid is contagious....


Just trying to get someone to buy this so I don't as I have 2 high testing pairs of the long plates. Sue me. 😁


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> Gonna have to sheepishly admit I've never done that.


😂😂😂 yeah. I have a better chance of hitting the lottery.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> Just trying to get someone to buy this so I don't as I have 2 high testing pairs of the long plates. Sue me. 😁


I'm actually lurking that auction 😬


----------



## jonathan c

Rowethren said:


> I was interested until you said only in the U.S. sad times


You could move…🤷🏻‍♂️…


----------



## jonathan c (Aug 2, 2021)

G0rt said:


> Roll, roll, roll your goats... (If you've ever wrestled Nigerian pygmy goats, you maybe know just how much fun That can be.)
> 
> Found 7728's slightly subject to environmental noise with low impedance cans (Grado, Elex) so rolled the '57 triple mica halo Footscrays back into MJ2. My favorite.
> 
> ...


Next orbit is to go the non-over-sampling R2R DAC route…(Holo Audio / Kitsune Spring, Mojo Audio EVO Mystique…)


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm actually lurking that auction 😬


Just don’t bid against yourself 🤦🏻…


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> .


Was your holy grail tube inventory swallowed by a black hole….the horror of it all….bad enough as is but GEs survived?…The black hole had to 🤮 them out?….


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Just don’t bid against yourself 🤦🏻…


🤣


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm actually lurking that auction 😬


My max bid is $7,999.99 any I won't raise my max bid. They're yours bro. 😀


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> My max bid is $7,999.99 any I won't raise my max bid. They're yours bro. 😀


🤣🤣🤣


----------



## billerb1

Did I miss all the 455 reviews ?  Weren't like a dozen of you burning them in ???  The king is dead.  Long live the king.


----------



## Wes S (Aug 3, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Next orbit is to go the non-over-sampling R2R DAC route…(Holo Audio / Kitsune Spring, Mojo Audio EVO Mystique…)


You left out a killer DAC, the Sonnet Morpheus.   It has a built in lossless preamp with volume control too and it smokes the Spring (all levels) . . .


----------



## Wes S (Aug 3, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Was your holy grail tube inventory swallowed by a black hole….the horror of it all….bad enough as is but GEs survived?…The black hole had to 🤮 them out?….


Moderators don't like those post, so I had to remove it.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm actually lurking that auction 😬


Oh man, I just sold all mine for a steal of a deal, and had I known you were interested I would have hooked it up.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Oh man, I just sold all mine for a steal of a deal, and had I known you were interested I would have hooked it up.


No biggie bro. I'm always lurking for tubes. I just have to stop buying them 😂


----------



## Wes S (Aug 3, 2021)

billerb1 said:


> Did I miss all the 455 reviews ?  Weren't like a dozen of you burning them in ???  The king is dead.  Long live the king.


I am eagerly waiting to hear Sammy's thoughts on them.

@Guidostrunk, I take it you are still waiting on them to show up?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> I am eagerly waiting to hear Sammy's thoughts on them.
> 
> @Guidostrunk, I take it you are still waiting on them to show up?


Yep. Waiting on the second set they shipped. First ones never came. At least not yet lol


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Yep. Waiting on the second set they shipped. First ones never came. At least not yet lol


Still haven't gotten my replacement tube 2 weeks in.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Still haven't gotten my replacement tube 2 weeks in.


Bummer and ridiculous!  I really wish the USPS could get their stuff together!


----------



## TK16

This seller has several 6201 PW pairs.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-VALVO-B...3-01d3-41db-9249-93dcf514fcfe&redirect=mobile


----------



## Wes S (Aug 3, 2021)

TK16 said:


> This seller has several 6201 PW pairs.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-VALVO-BLUE-LABEL-6201-PINCHED-WAIST-VG0-CODE-TUBES-STUDIO-QUALITY-TUBES-NOS/403040634219?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=7b3e0c8905f545558ba1937871092dc5&pid=100675&rk=2&rkt=15&sd=403040647754&itm=403040634219&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=Valvo,pageci:dd2b4755-f464-11eb-8b84-e2ba20d1520e|parentrq:0c5bff3e17b0a9b186adfd05ffe4f6fa|iid:1&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&pageci=5c68d823-01d3-41db-9249-93dcf514fcfe&redirect=mobile


Great price and if only they were triple micas . . .


----------



## TK16 (Aug 3, 2021)

Wes S said:


> Great price and if only they were triple micas . . .


2 D-getter pairs and 3x mica1960 too and some vg0's.
Just got my 6201 PW single now. Bought from the seller before no issues.
There were 2 D-getter pair for $425 a pair.


----------



## Rowethren

My replacement CV455 has started to intermittently crackle very loudly so I think I am going to give up with them for now and go back to the CV4033 which have been rock solid. Bit of a shame but I am not sure I can be bothered to spend another week trying to get hold of someone at Langrex.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> 2 D-getter pairs and 3x mica1960 too and some vg0's.
> Just got my 6201 PW single now. Bought from the seller before no issues.
> There were 2 D-getter pair for $425 a pair.


Nice!  I just looked up those 2 pairs of D Getter 3X mica and they look pristine.  I would have loved to score a pair of those, but I am hapy with my Tungsram BWPDG as it best them all.  The 6201 PWTMDG is a close, but does not quite have the magic of the Tungsram.   I will say, if you like the 6201 you would love the Tungsram.


----------



## M-83

Have had a few quiet days due to being unwell, but here is a classy track for everyone to enjoy (a great twist on a classic):


----------



## TK16

@bcowen only. Saw this and think you would love these. Expensive garbage, high price and shady seller to boot. 😉
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-...4-916a-479a-8074-c9138baf4394&redirect=mobile


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> @bcowen only. Saw this and think you would love these. Expensive garbage, high price and shady seller to boot. 😉
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-12AU7-ECC82-General-Electric-Black-Plate-D-Getter-Premium-Audio-Tube/401947146988?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=1cbd707909704dc6b09868cbe4ef8e79&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=401947146988&itm=401947146988&pmt=1&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=General,pageci:604d425b-f4a1-11eb-8d36-16f5f749de55|parentrq:0de891ea17b0a9b13e1c6e87ffe01208|iid:1&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&pageci=dd1a6e74-916a-479a-8074-c9138baf4394&redirect=mobile


Triple mica?…..No…..triple ‘shysta’ !….


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Just don’t bid against yourself 🤦🏻…


Yeah, 'cause that would _really_ suck if you lost.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> @bcowen only. Saw this and think you would love these. Expensive garbage, high price and shady seller to boot. 😉
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-12AU7-ECC82-General-Electric-Black-Plate-D-Getter-Premium-Audio-Tube/401947146988?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=1cbd707909704dc6b09868cbe4ef8e79&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=401947146988&itm=401947146988&pmt=1&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=General,pageci:604d425b-f4a1-11eb-8d36-16f5f749de55|parentrq:0de891ea17b0a9b13e1c6e87ffe01208|iid:1&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&pageci=dd1a6e74-916a-479a-8074-c9138baf4394&redirect=mobile


LOL!  But's they're's not's guaranteed's to's sound's excellent's in's my's gear's.  That gives me pause.  No free shipping?  More pause.  Overpriced by 100x? Even more pause.  Guess I'll very reluctantly have to pass on this pile of rancid monkeypuss.   But thanks for thinking of me.


----------



## roman410

bcowen said:


> LOL!  But's they're's not's guaranteed's to's sound's excellent's in's my's gear's.  That gives me pause.  No free shipping?  More pause.  Overpriced by 100x? Even more pause.  Guess I'll very reluctantly have to pass on this pile of rancid monkeypuss.   But thanks for thinking of me.


But they have black plates, 45 degree d getters. That's all of the ingredients some of best tubes😁. And seller accept best offers!😉 What will be reasonable offer? $1.89,-?


----------



## TK16

roman410 said:


> But they have black plates, 45 degree d getters. That's all of the ingredients some of best tubes😁. And seller accept best offers!😉 What will be reasonable offer? $1.89,-?


I would take them if the owner paid me to get the pair but will not get anywhere near an amp.


----------



## Ripper2860

TK16 said:


> @bcowen only. Saw this and think you would love these. Expensive garbage, high price and shady seller to boot. 😉
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-12AU7-ECC82-General-Electric-Black-Plate-D-Getter-Premium-Audio-Tube/401947146988?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=1cbd707909704dc6b09868cbe4ef8e79&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=401947146988&itm=401947146988&pmt=1&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=General,pageci:604d425b-f4a1-11eb-8d36-16f5f749de55|parentrq:0de891ea17b0a9b13e1c6e87ffe01208|iid:1&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&pageci=dd1a6e74-916a-479a-8074-c9138baf4394&redirect=mobile



I guess Bill's constant thrashing of Bangy Bang is finally affecting them financially.  It seems that their rental display carpet has been repossessed.


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> @bcowen only. Saw this and think you would love these. Expensive garbage, high price and shady seller to boot. 😉


Just a shady seller?! He (she?, it?) is one of the tube shyster triumvirate: Bangybang / wege_high_tubes / menifee. Masters of silkscreening GE to GEC and other nefarious practices 👹👹👹…with prices that eclipse NIB NOS one-of-a-kind items…


----------



## M-83

@Wes S and other EDM fans....

This is a cracking album well worth a listen:


----------



## Wes S

M-83 said:


> @Wes S and other EDM fans....
> 
> This is a cracking album well worth a listen:


Nice!  I am gonna fire that one up first thing when I get home.  Thanks bro


----------



## M-83

Wes S said:


> Nice!  I am gonna fire that one up first thing when I get home.  Thanks bro


No worries mate. Enjoy! 

I'm having my first listen to the album now and it's great. Head has been bopping non stop.

This would make a brilliant drive time listen on a long journey. Loads of fun.


----------



## Wes S

M-83 said:


> No worries mate. Enjoy!
> 
> I'm having my first listen to the album now and it's great. Head has been bopping non stop.
> 
> This would make a brilliant drive time listen on a long journey. Loads of fun.


Oh man!  I am even more excited now, as I love some good driving music.  I just got home and it's go time.


----------



## M-83

Wes S said:


> Oh man!  I am even more excited now, as I love some good driving music.  I just got home and it's go time.


Ah gotta love some decent drive time music!

Right on! Enjoy.


----------



## M-83

Is it wrong that I'm blissing out to Enya haha?

I'm the only one in my family and friend circles that will admit to enjoying Enja 😂😂😂


----------



## Wes S

M-83 said:


> Is it wrong that I'm blissing out to Enya haha?
> 
> I'm the only one in my family and friend circles that will admit to enjoying Enja 😂😂😂


LOL!  I am right there with ya man.


----------



## bcowen

M-83 said:


> Is it wrong that I'm blissing out to Enya haha?
> 
> I'm the only one in my family and friend circles that will admit to enjoying Enja 😂😂😂


I like Enya.  Therefore it is _not_ wrong.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> I like Enya.  Therefore it is _not_ wrong.


I do not know Enya but I _did _grow up in Kenya…


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> I like Enya.  Therefore it is _not_ wrong.


By that logic, Marilyn Manson is not wrong 😒…


----------



## jonathan c

To @Guidostrunk: You mentioned in the Valhalla thread that your Mjolnir II runs hot (110’ F). Mine did run hot but now runs a little cooler. I took out the little standard rubber feet  and put some Douk Audio feet underneath the  Mjolnir II. And the greater surface area of the feet contacting the amp eliminates any microphonics from the amp body.:


----------



## roman410

M-83 said:


> Is it wrong that I'm blissing out to Enya haha?
> 
> I'm the only one in my family and friend circles that will admit to enjoying Enja 😂😂😂


I like Enya, and Loreena too.


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> To @Guidostrunk: You mentioned in the Valhalla thread that your Mjolnir II runs hot (110’ F). Mine did run hot but now runs a little cooler. I took out the little standard rubber feet  and put some Douk Audio feet underneath the  Mjolnir II. And the greater surface area of the feet contacting the amp eliminates any microphonics from the amp body.:


Definitely have to get some of those. Looks great too. Lol


----------



## Rowethren

Guidostrunk said:


> Definitely have to get some of those. Looks great too. Lol


I really recommend these feet, they are what I use under my Mjolnir. https://herbiesaudiolab.com/collect...on/products/tenderfoot?variant=12643255517239


----------



## M-83

A classic! Totally forgot about this, but what memories it brings back haha


----------



## TK16

Anybody here get any of those 6201 PW's from the eBay seller I mentioned?


----------



## roman410 (Aug 5, 2021)

billerb1 said:


> Did I miss all the 455 reviews ?  Weren't like a dozen of you burning them in ???  The king is dead.  Long live the king.


My Brimar CV455 have 80hr of playing time, thus here are my impressions.

Not a neutral, but very euphonic sounding tubes in a good way. Slightly on the warm side but still natural, together with holographic soundstage.

Two things strikes me. First the beauty of this tubes are how they portraits mids down to bass with incredible details in this frequencies.
The second are vocals. Must have something special.Because English it is not my native language, somehow I find myself, I can much easier follow the lyrics on the songs.

So far I do not get feeling, need come back to my longtime HG tubes.


.


----------



## Lvivske

I think 55 was a good level for it to come into its own, some detail has opened up that previously I'd test with my integrated amp - some test track's background vocal layers were very pronounced, but on my tubes they were just background whatever effects that i chalked up to price of tube distortion). Noticing those words sound clearer now, along with other layers on songs I'm just picking up on now. I found they bring out both lows and highs, which initially made things muddy & overwhelming but after some tweaking and burn in, I tune for some higher highs and lower lows now with great results. Things are just more full bodied, pronounced, and clear.


----------



## ksorota

Been trying to avoid this place (too many great tubes coming in)

I just got through a few hours of a matchup between 4033 FB halo getter and CBS 7728 single hole and I am sure of it now.  The 7728 takes the matchup.  It just has more body and stage depth.  Its immediately more engaging and tonally richer.  The 4033 has better detail retrieval and is more pinpoint, but the 7728 has better low end as well as the stage improved stage depth.  This is using WA2


----------



## Wes S

ksorota said:


> Been trying to avoid this place (too many great tubes coming in)
> 
> I just got through a few hours of a matchup between 4033 FB halo getter and CBS 7728 single hole and I am sure of it now.  The 7728 takes the matchup.  It just has more body and stage depth.  Its immediately more engaging and tonally richer.  The 4033 has better detail retrieval and is more pinpoint, but the 7728 has better low end as well as the stage improved stage depth.  This is using WA2


Heck yeah!  I still have a pair of those 7728's that I will never get rid of.  They are special, and the more you listen with them the better they get, which how it happens with really special tubes.


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> Been trying to avoid this place (too many great tubes coming in)
> 
> I just got through a few hours of a matchup between 4033 FB halo getter and CBS 7728 single hole and I am sure of it now.  The 7728 takes the matchup.  It just has more body and stage depth.  Its immediately more engaging and tonally richer.  The 4033 has better detail retrieval and is more pinpoint, but the 7728 has better low end as well as the stage improved stage depth.  This is using WA2


I still have that spare single I gotta send you bro. Totally forgot 🤦‍♂️


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> By that logic, Marilyn Manson is not wrong 😒…


Yes, and?


----------



## bcowen

Rowethren said:


> I really recommend these feet, they are what I use under my Mjolnir. https://herbiesaudiolab.com/collect...on/products/tenderfoot?variant=12643255517239


2nd that on the Tenderfeet.  I like a lot of Herbie's other products too -- they work well and are reasonably priced.


----------



## M-83

A classy track from Royksopp:


----------



## TK16

Still waiting on Langrex reply for my CV455 replacement I replied yesterday because wanted to actually get a reply next week. So starting the emails early with hopes for a response next week. Not a happy camper.


----------



## Rowethren

TK16 said:


> Still waiting on Langrex reply for my CV455 replacement I replied yesterday because wanted to actually get a reply next week. So starting the emails early with hopes for a response next week. Not a happy camper.


I just gave up in the end and went back to my CV4033.


----------



## M-83

TK16 said:


> Still waiting on Langrex reply for my CV455 replacement I replied yesterday because wanted to actually get a reply next week. So starting the emails early with hopes for a response next week. Not a happy camper.





Rowethren said:


> I just gave up in the end and went back to my CV4033


@TK16 @Rowethren  Guys, I'm both surprised and disappointed that you've had poor experience with Langrex. 

Fwiw I've bought a few items over the years and not had an issue though I guess being located in the UK helps.

I tend to enquire via email initially before I purchase just to be sure I know what I'm getting. 

Hope you can get things resolved asap.


----------



## Lvivske

surprising / scary since a lot of us all ordered around the same time


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> @TK16 @Rowethren  Guys, I'm both surprised and disappointed that you've had poor experience with Langrex.
> 
> Fwiw I've bought a few items over the years and not had an issue though I guess being located in the UK helps.
> 
> ...


I hope so too. I have not had any issues with orders or tubes themselves from Langrex. 😐


----------



## billerb1 (Aug 6, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> I hope so too. I have not had any issues with orders or tubes themselves from Langrex. 😐


Yeah, weird.  I'm on the West Coast and I think I got my 455's in like 6 days.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> I hope so too. I have not had any issues with orders or tubes themselves from Langrex. 😐


Same here.  Hopefully they come through and make things right.  Guess I'd be a little surprised if they _don't_, but you never know...


----------



## Rowethren

M-83 said:


> @TK16 @Rowethren  Guys, I'm both surprised and disappointed that you've had poor experience with Langrex.
> 
> Fwiw I've bought a few items over the years and not had an issue though I guess being located in the UK helps.
> 
> ...



I am in the UK as well and I haven't had an issue with the tubes arriving but one of the tubes I ordered was very noisy and it took over a week to get a response for a replacement and when the replacement arrived it has an intermittent crackle. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence.


----------



## dclancy

New MJ 2 owner here. Pulled the trigger on one in the forum on a whim last week and absolutely NOT regretting it. Using to pair with Meze Empyreans. Only have the Genalex Gold Pin 6922' and GE 5670, with a pair of  Brimar CV4033's on order based on a recommendation.
Comparing to A90, SA1, Hagerman Tuba; I love the dynamics and great deep bass, but still able to push through that lovely treble sparkle. I'm still getting used to the Empyreans, but when the soundstage gets wide, Wow! More detail than the Tuba with more character and warmth than the SA1.


----------



## roman410 (Aug 7, 2021)

dclancy said:


> New MJ 2 owner here. Pulled the trigger on one in the forum on a whim last week and absolutely NOT regretting it. Using to pair with Meze Empyreans. Only have the Genalex Gold Pin 6922' and GE 5670, with a pair of  Brimar CV4033's on order based on a recommendation.
> Comparing to A90, SA1, Hagerman Tuba; I love the dynamics and great deep bass, but still able to push through that lovely treble sparkle. I'm still getting used to the Empyreans, but when the soundstage gets wide, Wow! More detail than the Tuba with more character and warmth than the SA1.


Congratulations to your new amp. MJ2.
Psst...do not say GE too loud, guys here believe GE it is only good brand for appliances not for vacuum tubes😁
I believe you will surprise with Brimars, that  gonna be huge difference in sound quality quality! If you like MJ2 right now with Brimas you fall to love😉.
Let the know what you will think about them compare to your present tubes.


----------



## bcowen

dclancy said:


> New MJ 2 owner here. Pulled the trigger on one in the forum on a whim last week and absolutely NOT regretting it. Using to pair with Meze Empyreans. Only have the Genalex Gold Pin 6922' and GE 5670, with a pair of  Brimar CV4033's on order based on a recommendation.
> Comparing to A90, SA1, Hagerman Tuba; I love the dynamics and great deep bass, but still able to push through that lovely treble sparkle. I'm still getting used to the Empyreans, but when the soundstage gets wide, Wow! More detail than the Tuba with more character and warmth than the SA1.


I don't have an MJ2, but having heard the three tubes you listed all I can say is you're in for quite a treat when the CV4033's arrive.  Enjoy!


----------



## TK16

Decent price on a pair of 7316 LP excellent seller. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-very-rar...a-015a-49f4-8ebc-8ba0f493fa81&redirect=mobile


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Decent price on a pair of 7316 LP excellent seller.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-very-rare-1950s-strong-amperex-foil-D-getter-7316-12au7-tubes/265256894111?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=93f53ee86b3144e8aa7aecc7c3081b2b&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=265256894111&itm=265256894111&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=Amperex,pageci:4d532e6a-f785-11eb-b894-a241d21ddf22|parentrq:20d9bf8d17b0ab9e641c8968ffff0610|iid:1&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&pageci=cd3af16a-015a-49f4-8ebc-8ba0f493fa81&redirect=mobile


I have quite a few Amperex Holland labeled 7316's (some in military boxes), but they are all the short, gray plate version.  If you've heard both, how big a difference is there between them and the long plates, just generally speaking? 6.9717%?  21.85% (+/- 5.3%)?   Seriously, is it substantial or closer to subtle?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I have quite a few Amperex Holland labeled 7316's (some in military boxes), but they are all the short, gray plate version.  If you've heard both, how big a difference is there between them and the long plates, just generally speaking? 6.9717%?  21.85% (+/- 5.3%)?  Seriously, is it substantial or closer to subtle?


Only heard the 1958 LP and 1959 SP D/O. I think it's worth it based on hearing both. Though others might have a different opinion. Never heard the later 7316 though.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Only heard the 1958 LP and 1959 SP D/O. I think it's worth it based on hearing both. Though others might have a different opinion. Never heard the later 7316 though.


Well crap.  Now I'm going to have to figure out when mine were made.  When I was born = good, after I was born = not exactly?


----------



## dclancy

roman410 said:


> Congratulations to your new amp. MJ2.
> Psst...do not say GE too loud, guys here believe GE it is only good brand for appliances not for vacuum tubes😁
> I believe you will surprise with Brimars, that  gonna be huge difference in sound quality quality! If you like MJ2 right now with Brimas you fall to love😉.
> Let the know what you will think about them compare to your present tubes.


Oh, I've been reading this and the Lyr tube thread, I know how much praise those GE's get! I've probably used them the most, and if that's bottom rung, can't wait to climb to the top!


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Well crap.  Now I'm going to have to figure out when mine were made.  When I was born = good, after I was born = not exactly?


O getters can be 1959 ct1 ish. Also have a SP O getter 59 that's a ct1 and a D-getter 59 that's a ct2 and made 2 months after the 59 O getter. May vs July 59.


----------



## Guidostrunk

dclancy said:


> New MJ 2 owner here. Pulled the trigger on one in the forum on a whim last week and absolutely NOT regretting it. Using to pair with Meze Empyreans. Only have the Genalex Gold Pin 6922' and GE 5670, with a pair of  Brimar CV4033's on order based on a recommendation.
> Comparing to A90, SA1, Hagerman Tuba; I love the dynamics and great deep bass, but still able to push through that lovely treble sparkle. I'm still getting used to the Empyreans, but when the soundstage gets wide, Wow! More detail than the Tuba with more character and warmth than the SA1.


Did you get adapters for your cv4033?


----------



## dclancy

Guidostrunk said:


> Did you get adapters for your cv4033?


Yes! Thanks for asking. Otherwise I'm sure that's nothing a little spit and a mallet couldn't make work.


----------



## TK16

dclancy said:


> New MJ 2 owner here. Pulled the trigger on one in the forum on a whim last week and absolutely NOT regretting it. Using to pair with Meze Empyreans. Only have the Genalex Gold Pin 6922' and GE 5670, with a pair of  Brimar CV4033's on order based on a recommendation.
> Comparing to A90, SA1, Hagerman Tuba; I love the dynamics and great deep bass, but still able to push through that lovely treble sparkle. I'm still getting used to the Empyreans, but when the soundstage gets wide, Wow! More detail than the Tuba with more character and warmth than the SA1.


You got the adapter for the GE 5670 as well? Though those would probably sound better without the adapters ie no sound vs GE sound. 😁


----------



## dclancy

TK16 said:


> You got the adapter for the GE 5670 as well? Though those would probably sound better without the adapters ie no sound vs GE sound. 😁


I'll have to try that out tonight!


----------



## bcowen

dclancy said:


> Otherwise I'm sure that's nothing a little spit and a mallet couldn't make work.


ROFL!  Are you related to @TK16 ?


----------



## bcowen

dclancy said:


> Oh, I've been reading this and the Lyr tube thread, I know how much praise those GE's get! I've probably used them the most, and if that's bottom rung, can't wait to climb to the top!


Praise?  I must have missed that post.  Do you remember if it was in this thread or the Lyr thread?


----------



## jonathan c

dclancy said:


> New MJ 2 owner here. Pulled the trigger on one in the forum on a whim last week and absolutely NOT regretting it. Using to pair with Meze Empyreans. Only have the Genalex Gold Pin 6922' and GE 5670, with a pair of  Brimar CV4033's on order based on a recommendation.
> Comparing to A90, SA1, Hagerman Tuba; I love the dynamics and great deep bass, but still able to push through that lovely treble sparkle. I'm still getting used to the Empyreans, but when the soundstage gets wide, Wow! More detail than the Tuba with more character and warmth than the SA1.


You will be pleased indeed with the Brimar CV4033s. Does your Mjolnir II have the capacitor modifications? These send the Mjolnir II to a further ‘sonic orbit’! If interested, you can ‘private message’ fellow HFier @ksorota .


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> I have quite a few Amperex Holland labeled 7316's (some in military boxes), but they are all the short, gray plate version.  If you've heard both, how big a difference is there between them and the long plates, just generally speaking? 6.9717%?  21.85% (+/- 5.3%)?  Seriously, is it substantial or closer to subtle?


(+/- 7.316%)….


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> You got the adapter for the GE 5670 as well? Though those would probably sound better without the adapters ie no sound vs GE sound. 😁


Another instance of silence being golden…


----------



## dclancy

bcowen said:


> Praise?  I must have missed that post.  Do you remember if it was in this thread or the Lyr thread?


Typo, "Liar" thread.


jonathan c said:


> You will be pleased indeed with the Brimar CV4033s. Does your Mjolnir II have the capacitor modifications? These send the Mjolnir II to a further ‘sonic orbit’! If interested, you can ‘private message’ fellow HFier @ksorota .


Bought my Argons from him. I'll keep this in mind (checks bank balance).


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> You will be pleased indeed with the Brimar CV4033s. Does your Mjolnir II have the capacitor modifications? These send the Mjolnir II to a further ‘sonic orbit’! If interested, you can ‘private message’ fellow HFier @ksorota .


I'll second that. The MJ2 is on a whole different level with the cap mod. It really is unbelievable.


----------



## dclancy

You all suck. I was just starting to be happy with an amp/headphone pairing, now I have cap envy. Just dropped 3 bills on tubes, how much more to be respectable in this piece!


----------



## billerb1 (Aug 7, 2021)

dclancy said:


> You all suck. I was just starting to be happy with an amp/headphone pairing, now I have cap envy. Just dropped 3 bills on tubes, how much more to be respectable in this piece!


Trust your instincts.  This group cannot be trusted.  They are well-intentioned but change like the breeze.  I am old and feeble-minded at this stage of my audiophile existence and these jokers manipulated me into spending 50% of my entire 401K on 25 different Holy Grail tubes in a little over a week and a half.  And guess what...my original HG's, my Telefunken ECC801S's are back in my Woo WA2.  The Brimar CV455's are very impressive...but they just didn't sustain the MAGIC that the Tele's seem to have in my rig.  Avatar change again!


----------



## G0rt

billerb1 said:


> Trust your instincts.  This group cannot be trusted.  They are well-intentioned but change like the breeze.  I am old and feeble-minded at this stage of my audiophile existence and these jokers manipulated me into spending 50% of my entire 401K on 25 different Holy Grail tubes in a little over a week and a half.  And guess what...my original HG, my Telefunken ECC801S's are back in my Woo WA2.  The Brimar CV455's are very impressive...but they just didn't sustain the MAGIC that the Tele's seem to have in my rig.  Avatar change again!


I find it helps to reboot my head every so often.

Today: Gumby->Asgard3->HD650. 🥰


----------



## dclancy

billerb1 said:


> Trust your instincts.  This group cannot be trusted.  They are well-intentioned but change like the breeze.  I am old and feeble-minded at this stage of my audiophile existence and these jokers manipulated me into spending 50% of my entire 401K on 25 different Holy Grail tubes in a little over a week and a half.  And guess what...my original HG, my Telefunken ECC801S's are back in my Woo WA2.  The Brimar CV455's are very impressive...but they just didn't sustain the MAGIC that the Tele's seem to have in my rig.  Avatar change again!


Yeah, I'm no young buck either. I just decided to get back into this now that my son is older and I realized I had no real "hobbies" anymore. I'll keep my 401k off the table for the time being, but it's quickly eating all my beer and bait money. Down sizing the stable currently, too much collecting dust. Maybe after that I'll buzz @ksorota about making me a real boy!
BTW, rocking Gold Lions with Zappa's Hot Rat's album. Great macro dynamics off planar headphones. These Empyreans love the hybrid amp.


----------



## bcowen

billerb1 said:


> Trust your instincts.  This group cannot be trusted.  They are well-intentioned but change like the breeze.


I don't have an MJ2 and therefore not part of this 'group.'  Whew.  I finally got something right.


----------



## billerb1

bcowen said:


> I don't have an MJ2 and therefore not part of this 'group.'  Whew.  I finally got something right.


Don't buy it. bc is just like all the others.


----------



## dclancy (Aug 7, 2021)

bcowen said:


> I don't have an MJ2 and therefore not part of this 'group.'  Whew.  I finally got something right.


Someone get this person a Mjolnir! Grab one from the pile in back.


----------



## bcowen

billerb1 said:


> Don't buy it. bc is just like all the others.


Thank you.  _Finally_ a voice of reason.  I've maintained for 30+ years now that all amps sound the same.  Tubes too.


----------



## dclancy

Keep in mind I'm on like day 2 with the MJ2, but some comparisons to the Hagerman Tuba amp using the Meze Empyreans:
Using some no name D-getters, and briefly Tung Sols on the Hagerman and Gold Lions with the MJ2, I see there's two major differences between the two. The MJ2 sounds more compressed. Part of that has to do with the punchiness of MJ2 I believe, but I think power output is a big part too. If I move the Hagerman over to Hi Z they're far more equal, but the sound loses that tubey sweetness. 
I also feel the Mjolnir takes the bass a notch lower. This could be part of that compression I mentioned, but on certain tracks, it's almost as if there's a new bass line lifted and replaced when I switch over.
Dying to see what the Footscray bring to the party, but at the same time I would love to get some better EL84 D-getters as recommended by the guy who sold me the amp, just haven't found a pair yet. I wanna feed both amps their spinach and let them go to war!
Just wanted to chime in here. Both amps are obviously brilliant and the only winner is me. As mentioned in a previous post, all amps are exactly like the others.


----------



## Guidostrunk (Aug 7, 2021)

dclancy said:


> Keep in mind I'm on like day 2 with the MJ2, but some comparisons to the Hagerman Tuba amp using the Meze Empyreans:
> Using some no name D-getters, and briefly Tung Sols on the Hagerman and Gold Lions with the MJ2, I see there's two major differences between the two. The MJ2 sounds more compressed. Part of that has to do with the punchiness of MJ2 I believe, but I think power output is a big part too. If I move the Hagerman over to Hi Z they're far more equal, but the sound loses that tubey sweetness.
> I also feel the Mjolnir takes the bass a notch lower. This could be part of that compression I mentioned, but on certain tracks, it's almost as if there's a new bass line lifted and replaced when I switch over.
> Dying to see what the Footscray bring to the party, but at the same time I would love to get some better EL84 D-getters as recommended by the guy who sold me the amp, just haven't found a pair yet. I wanna feed both amps their spinach and let them go to war!
> Just wanted to chime in here. Both amps are obviously brilliant and the only winner is me. As mentioned in a previous post, all amps are exactly like the others.


I believe @Wes S  can give you some insight on el84 tube recommendations. I'm pretty sure one of his amps uses that particular tube.


----------



## TK16

dclancy said:


> Keep in mind I'm on like day 2 with the MJ2, but some comparisons to the Hagerman Tuba amp using the Meze Empyreans:
> Using some no name D-getters, and briefly Tung Sols on the Hagerman and Gold Lions with the MJ2, I see there's two major differences between the two. The MJ2 sounds more compressed. Part of that has to do with the punchiness of MJ2 I believe, but I think power output is a big part too. If I move the Hagerman over to Hi Z they're far more equal, but the sound loses that tubey sweetness.
> I also feel the Mjolnir takes the bass a notch lower. This could be part of that compression I mentioned, but on certain tracks, it's almost as if there's a new bass line lifted and replaced when I switch over.
> Dying to see what the Footscray bring to the party, but at the same time I would love to get some better EL84 D-getters as recommended by the guy who sold me the amp, just haven't found a pair yet. I wanna feed both amps their spinach and let them go to war!
> Just wanted to chime in here. Both amps are obviously brilliant and the only winner is me. As mentioned in a previous post, all amps are exactly like the others.


Stay clear of the tube rabbit hole, instead of trying to escape the hole I dig further down. Everyone here except me is to blame.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> Stay clear of the tube rabbit hole, instead of trying to escape the hole I dig further down. Everyone here except me is to blame.


😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## Ripper2860

I've found that there is not actually a tube  'rabbit hole' if one uses the 'ignore user' feature of this forum and adds @Wes S and @Guidostrunk.   😏


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ripper2860 said:


> I've found that there is not actually a tube  'rabbit hole' if one uses the 'ignore user' feature of this forum and adds @Wes S and @Guidostrunk.   😏


🤣🤣🤣


----------



## TK16

Ripper2860 said:


> I've found that there is not actually a tube  'rabbit hole' if one uses the 'ignore user' feature of this forum and adds @Wes S and @Guidostrunk.   😏


You were right not to include me in that list.


----------



## bcowen (Aug 7, 2021)

Ripper2860 said:


> I've found that there is not actually a tube  'rabbit hole' if one uses the 'ignore user' feature of this forum and adds @Wes S and @Guidostrunk.   😏


You were smart.  I used to have a nice house, a couple late model cars, three nice meals a day, and a family.  Then I started reading stuff from guys named @Wes S and @TK16 and @Guidostrunk , and now all I have is 2 shopping carts full of tubes.  Fortunately I'm still strong enough to push them by the Chick-Fil-A dumpster at closing time so I can get some dinner.  Not complaining of course, just passing on some cautionary info.


----------



## Ripper2860

TK16 said:


> You were right not to include me in that list.


Don't get too cocky.  You sir,  are toeing the line.  😀


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> I don't have an MJ2 and therefore not part of this 'group.'  Whew.  I finally got something right.


With the Footscray, you are in the group + second thing right…


----------



## jonathan c

dclancy said:


> Yeah, I'm no young buck either. I just decided to get back into this now that my son is older and I realized I had no real "hobbies" anymore. I'll keep my 401k off the table for the time being, but it's quickly eating all my beer and bait money. Down sizing the stable currently, too much collecting dust. Maybe after that I'll buzz @ksorota about making me a real boy!
> BTW, rocking Gold Lions with Zappa's Hot Rat's album. Great macro dynamics off planar headphones. These Empyreans love the hybrid amp.


With the combination of Mjolnir II and Gold Lions, do weasels rip your flesh?…


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Thank you.  _Finally_ a voice of reason.  I've maintained for 30+ years now that all amps sound the same.  Tubes too.


And headphones…bring back Julian Hirsch…


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> You were smart.  I used to have a nice house, a couple late model cars, three nice meals a day, and a family.  Then I started reading stuff from guys named @Wes S and @TK16 and @Guidostrunk , and now all I have is 2 shopping carts full of tubes.  Fortunately I'm still strong enough to push them by the Chick-Fil-A dumpster at closing time so I can get some dinner.  Not complaining of course, just passing on some cautionary info.


I thought that you frequented Chick-Filament…


----------



## dclancy

jonathan c said:


> With the combination of Mjolnir II and Gold Lions, do weasels rip your flesh?…


A lady never tells, good sir!


----------



## bcowen (Aug 7, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> And headphones…bring back Julian Hirsch…


Well, speakers too.  Unless they're Bose.  Then they're better than everything else.  Just check the full page ads if you have any doubts.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> With the Footscray, you are in the group + second thing right…


Footscray's are just the initiation fee.  I'm still a pledge.


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> Stay clear of the tube rabbit hole, instead of trying to escape the hole I dig further down. Everyone here except me is to blame.


The other variation is…Many moons ago, when Bullwinkle attempted to pull a rabbit out of the hat (it went bear, lion, rhino, tiger), Rocky would say: “that trick never works”…


----------



## billerb1

jonathan c said:


> The other variation is…Many moons ago, when Bullwinkle attempted to pull a rabbit out of the hat (it went bear, lion, rhino, tiger), Rocky would say: “that trick never works”…


God I loved that squirrel.


----------



## roman410

My second pair of Brimar CV455 arrived couple days ago and currently burning in MJ2, with plans to use in my tube DAC. This pair come in pristine NOS condition, thanks to Wes S.
Right from start they have all attributes of the ready burned first pair, and by used hours they get better and better.I am very happy.🙂


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> God I loved that squirrel.


I'm partial to the gopher in Caddyshack and the squirrel in Hot Tub Time Machine.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I'm partial to the gopher in Caddyshack and the squirrel in Hot Tub Time Machine.


I was more partial to Rodney Dangerfield's golf bag in Caddyshack.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I was more partial to Rodney Dangerfield's golf bag in Caddyshack.


Gumball machine BEFORE it broke. 🤣


----------



## TK16

That seller that I linked earlier sent me an offer for $20 off for the LP 7316 D-getter pair. If someone wants it send the seller a message.


----------



## jonathan c

Always a great matchup for the MJ-II. @Guidostrunk, even with your recent Focal MG acquisition, the GH50-JM is still whispering your name…


----------



## evanescent

The evidence on tube life suggests keeping them cool is the top priority.  Having them on socket savers gets more passive cooling on a MJ2 because there's more glass sticking out of the case. I'm thinking about adding a quiet fan or two to help also. Anyone tried this?




source: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d7a9pho6...mpIWa/GettingTheMostOutOfVacuumTubes.pdf?dl=0


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hmmm. Haven't been down the fan rolling rabbit hole yet. What do you think @jonathan c  and  @Wes S ? Should we explore fans?


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Hmmm. Haven't been down the fan rolling rabbit hole yet. What do you think @jonathan c  and  @Wes S ? Should we explore fans?


If so, there should be two fans synchronised; the first to blow air on the tubes, the second to draw the air away from the tubes. Both fans cannot have rpm that is an integer multiple of 60 (as in Hz). The fans have to be decoupled from their support via sorbethane feet. The density of the feet for fan 1 cannot equal the density of the feet for fan 2. Obviously, the fans cannot be plugged into the same house electrical circuit as the amp. If this is not feasible, the fans should be plugged in via extension cord of at least 271’ to a generator outside. Why 271? Because a prime number gives prime results. If this is all too much, put the amp in the fridge.


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> If so, there should be two fans synchronised; the first to blow air on the tubes, the second to draw the air away from the tubes. Both fans cannot have rpm that is an integer multiple of 60 (as in Hz). The fans have to be decoupled from their support via sorbethane feet. The density of the feet for fan 1 cannot equal the density of the feet for fan 2. Obviously, the fans cannot be plugged into the same house electrical circuit as the amp. If this is not feasible, the fans should be plugged in via extension cord of at least 271’ to a generator outside. Why 271? Because a prime number gives prime results. If this is all too much, put the amp in the fridge.


😂😂😂 
Ok bro. I'm on the hunt now


----------



## Wes S (Aug 10, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Hmmm. Haven't been down the fan rolling rabbit hole yet. What do you think @jonathan c  and  @Wes S ? Should we explore fans?


I have tried a few fans over the years, and they were all too audible for me.  Also, they are quite an eyesore just like tube risers/socket savers, of which I will not use either.  Visual appeal of my amp plays a big role in my overall enjoyment.


----------



## G0rt

Wasn't there an old Signetics App Note suggesting a 6 ft cooling fan for some one of their chips or other? Might have been a WOM (Write Only Memory.)


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Hmmm. Haven't been down the fan rolling rabbit hole yet. What do you think @jonathan c  and  @Wes S ? Should we explore fans?


Now for the _absolutely guaranteed to get you in trouble_ response:

Yes. While you listen, have your wife / significant partner stand to the side of the gear rack and cool the amp by waving a large palm leaf by it. This method runs silent, runs cheap. 🎶🎼 —> 👊…🤕…?


----------



## roman410

jonathan c said:


> Now for the _absolutely guaranteed to get you in trouble_ response:
> 
> Yes. While you listen, have your wife / significant partner stand to the side of the gear rack and cool the amp by waving a large palm leaf by it. This method runs silent, runs cheap. 🎶🎼 —> 👊…🤕…?


Ha, ha,ha...unfortunately this method do not work for me. 
Keep her happy it is not cheap, and when she it is not happy, she is never quite 😂.
But I can see someone's wife's will happily cool your gear, only for reason keep you home and she know what you doing 😁.


----------



## regaet (Aug 10, 2021)

Wes S said:


> I have tried a few fans over the years, and they were all too audible for me.  Also, they are quite an eyesore just like tube risers/socket savers, of which I will not use either.  Visual appeal of my amp plays a big role in my overall enjoyment.


I can't hear this one on low and it cools my Valhalla well.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1&tag=headfi-20


----------



## Wes S (Aug 10, 2021)

regaet said:


> I can't hear this one on low and it cools my Valhalla well.                                                                                                                                                           https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G05A2MU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Thanks for the link, but that is the first one I tried a while back and I could easily hear it, even on the lowest setting.


----------



## regaet

Wes S said:


> Doesn't seem to be anything in the link.


Not sure why / it works for me. Search for this on amazon: 
AC Infinity MULTIFAN S3, Quiet 120mm USB Fan, UL-Certified for Receiver DVR Playstation Xbox Computer Cabinet Cooling​​


----------



## roman410

evanescent said:


> The evidence on tube life suggests keeping them cool is the top priority.  Having them on socket savers gets more passive cooling on a MJ2 because there's more glass sticking out of the case. I'm thinking about adding a quiet fan or two to help also. Anyone tried this?
> 
> 
> source: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d7a9pho6...mpIWa/GettingTheMostOutOfVacuumTubes.pdf?dl=0


Actually, keeping tubes off front the case of gear, like using tube savers/adapters on MJ2, it's make longer life of your amp too. Excessive heat it is biggest lifespan enemy of all electronics.


----------



## Wes S

regaet said:


> Not sure why / it works for me. Search for this on amazon:
> AC Infinity MULTIFAN S3, Quiet 120mm USB Fan, UL-Certified for Receiver DVR Playstation Xbox Computer Cabinet Cooling​​


It did not work on my phone, but it did pull up on my computer.  Thanks for the link, however that was actually the first one I tried, and it is was very audible at all settings.  I should mention I am blessed with really good hearing, and a very bad case of OCD.


----------



## jonathan c

roman410 said:


> Actually, keeping tubes off front the case of gear, like using tube savers/adapters on MJ2, it's make longer life of your amp too. Excessive heat it is biggest lifespan enemy of all electronics.


Second is dust…after listening sessions with the Mjolnir II and after the tubes (in adapters) have cooled, I put a rectangular 4” high Tupperware clear box over the tubes…


----------



## Wes S (Aug 10, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Second is dust…after listening sessions with the Mjolnir II and after the tubes (in adapters) have cooled, I put a rectangular 4” high Tupperware clear box over the tubes…


I am right there with ya, on fighting dust.  I always cover all my gear when I am not at home.  I admit it is not very pretty to look at while covered, but the second I get home, the towels (gloves) come off.   

Before






After


----------



## jonathan c

jonathan c said:


> Second is dust…after listening sessions with the Mjolnir II and after the tubes (in adapters) have cooled, I put a rectangular 4” high Tupperware clear box over the tubes…


I have other shapes for clear Tupperware that I  use to cover Schiit Valhalla II, Woo WA3, Woo WA6 after post-listening cool-down. For the LTA MZ3, it is lint-free felt cut to shape…


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> 😂😂😂
> Ok bro. I'm on the hunt now


I put one on my Darkvoice (since I'm not a member of the MJ club ). It's a 12v computer fan powered from a 9v wal-wart I grabbed from the stash bin, but even at 75% of full voltage it was too loud. Back to the stash bin for a computer fan speed controller, and with it turned down to 7v it's all but inaudible. Below 7v it won't spin up from a cold start (stalled), so even though I get decent cooling at 6v or even 5v, I leave it at 7v so I don't have to give it a push every time. Can't speak to improved tube longevity at this point, but the top chassis of the DV is now at room temp even after being on for several hours and it got pretty toasty previously. Transformer is even much cooler. So if nothing else it ought to help the internal components live longer.....as to whether that's a worthy goal with a Darkvoice is another matter entirely.


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> I put one on my Darkvoice (since I'm not a member of the MJ club ). It's a 12v computer fan powered from a 9v wal-wart I grabbed from the stash bin, but even at 75% of full voltage it was too loud. Back to the stash bin for a computer fan speed controller, and with it turned down to 7v it's all but inaudible. Below 7v it won't spin up from a cold start (stalled), so even though I get decent cooling at 6v or even 5v, I leave it at 7v so I don't have to give it a push every time. Can't speak to improved tube longevity at this point, but the top chassis of the DV is now at room temp even after being on for several hours and it got pretty toasty previously. Transformer is even much cooler. So if nothing else it ought to help the internal components live longer.....as to whether that's a worthy goal with a Darkvoice is another matter entirely.


😂 I knew there was something to this fan thing. Everyone has been holding out on me


----------



## Wes S (Aug 11, 2021)

Guess what fellas . . .I found another "HG" level tube.   However, this time around I did not buy them all up.  

Foil O Getter

https://www.ebay.de/itm/124743110236

O Getter

https://www.ebay.de/itm/124743090322

I currently have the O Getter version, and it is a fantastic tube that can hang with the big boys no doubt.  This tube best the Brimar CV455, with better clarity and space, while still being as impactful and musical.  The sound sig, is like the 6201 PWTMDG and Brimar CV455 had a baby, combining the best attributes of both.  I also have one of the Foil O Getters on the way, and can't wait to hear that one, as I think it might be the earlier version.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 11, 2021)

Nope.  Not gonna do it.  I refuse to keep playing your dastardly game.


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> Nope.  Not gonna do it.  I refuse to keep playing your dastardly game.


Your loss.


----------



## ksorota

Ripper2860 said:


> Nope.  Not gonna do it.  I refuse to keep playing your dastardly game.


Finally...A low cost to entry game! lol


----------



## G0rt

😁


----------



## jonathan c

One of our villains, wege_high_tubes, with another stellar offering 🤢…


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> One of our villains, wege_high_tubes, with another stellar offering 🤢…


Besides the insane price, the height difference between those tubes would drive me crazy.  I would much prefer a $100 pair of super rare and amazing sounding Tungsram ECC81's.


----------



## dclancy

Okay, need help! The toggle power switch is broken on the MJ2. How do I open this beast? Advise?


----------



## ksorota

dclancy said:


> Okay, need help! The toggle power switch is broken on the MJ2. How do I open this beast? Advise?



Remove all top screws
Remove volume knob
Remove bottom perimeter screws
Remove rear panel screws

Just like 25 screws

The five along the bottom front are different than most of the rest too.


----------



## dclancy

ksorota said:


> Remove all top screws
> Remove volume knob
> Remove bottom perimeter screws
> Remove rear panel screws
> ...


Thanks. Have you had any experiences with that power switch?


----------



## ksorota

dclancy said:


> Thanks. Have you had any experiences with that power switch?


I’ve never swapped one out. But it’sa pretty standard piece. Should be easy to get a replacement.


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> 😂 I knew there was something to this fan thing. Everyone has been holding out on me


I'm a fan fanboy.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Guess what fellas . . .I found another "HG" level tube.   However, this time around I did not buy them all up.
> 
> Foil O Getter
> 
> ...


----------



## ksorota

bcowen said:


>


Minions are the best!


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> I'm a fan fanboy.


😂😂😂


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


>


QFT!
Anyone other than @bcowen notice anything funky with this listing. If you get it right feel free to buy this yourself. 😃
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-E8...f-9478-4770-afc5-8f44bcebf3ee&redirect=mobile


----------



## evanescent (Aug 11, 2021)

ksorota said:


> Finally...A low cost to entry game! lol



Brimar CV4033's (Footscray) are only $10 if you buy from the UK and do the wiring yourself..


----------



## ksorota

evanescent said:


> Brimar CV4033's are only $10 if you buy from the UK and do the wiring yourself..


How hard could that be!  Got a link?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> QFT!
> Anyone other than @bcowen notice anything funky with this listing. If you get it right feel free to buy this yourself. 😃
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-E88CC-ECC88-6DJ8-6922-7308-D-getter-Gold-pins-Holland/165003051134?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=261cd2acb65f4dec86f1a18af044a1b5&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=165003051134&itm=165003051134&pmt=1&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=Amperex,pageci:d974e33d-fb00-11eb-8eac-fa9b59c657e1|parentrq:37ac97d217b0a0f28fa8e5d1ffd1266f|iid:1&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&pageci=d2f8b94f-9478-4770-afc5-8f44bcebf3ee&redirect=mobile


Nothing funky at all, other than a TV-7 lists minimum values not NOS values, and the minimum value for a 6DJ8 (ECC88) is 62.  NOS readings would be a bit over 100, not the 74 he has noted on the tubes.  I'll disregard the pristine and totally unscratched gold pins that never appeared on an Amperex ECC88, at least not from the factory.

Oh wait...you said 'other than.' My bust.  Kind of.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Besides the insane price, the height difference between those tubes would drive me crazy.  I would much prefer a $100 pair of super rare and amazing sounding Tungsram ECC81's.


I think that wege_high_tubes knocked $5 off the price because of the unequal height 🥲🤪…


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


>


Is that minion related to the Brimar 6067T?…


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> Minions are the best!


Particularly those that do your bidding…


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Nothing funky at all, other than a TV-7 lists minimum values not NOS values, and the minimum value for a 6DJ8 (ECC88) is 62.  NOS readings would be a bit over 100, not the 74 he has noted on the tubes.  I'll disregard the pristine and totally unscratched gold pins that never appeared on an Amperex ECC88, at least not from the factory.
> 
> Oh wait...you said 'other than.' My bust.  Kind of.


Hit the buy button now, although you left out the stickers are likely concealing the change code and they don’t look to be the tall bottle that E88CC feature with the D getter. They do look sexier that the quad of D getter ECC88 I got for $70 bucks total though. The gold pins are golden. 😃


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 11, 2021)

Wes S said:


> Your loss.


Not really.  Thanks to my newly developed ability to *Forum Time Travel*, I know, and have already bought, the next 3 years line-up of tubes you will reveal as ''The Tube to Rule Them All!!"  (There were 176 of them, BTW.)  I'd tell you which they are, but you'll find out eventually...

Or will you?


----------



## evanescent

ksorota said:


> How hard could that be!  Got a link?


I got mine from ValveTubesOnline, similar to these.


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> Not really.  Thanks to my newly developed ability to *Forum Time Travel*, I know, and have already bought, the next 3 years line-up of tubes you will reveal as ''The Tube to Rule Them All!!"  (There were 176 of them, BTW.)  I'd tell you which they are, but you'll find out eventually...
> 
> Or will you?


Sorry, for having a knack for continually finding better tubes.  Going forward, I will do everyone a favor (or myself a favor) and will start keeping them to myself.   Good news folks, all newly discovered tubes will remain a secret from here on out.  So, it actually looks like it's my gain, and nobody's loss.  

Me in the future with all the tubes I have discovered equals pure musical bliss that I did not know my amp was capable of, or could I already be there with my Tungsrams. . .I guess ya'll will never find out.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 12, 2021)

@Wes S -- I'm just busting your chops.  Hopefully you are not taking me seriously.  Keep doing what you do.  It is appreciated and I'll capitulate at some point in time just like I have previously!   

You have a fabulous amp and quite a few stellar HPs which very likely reveal these differences.  I've hit the end of the line as I just do not think my office rig VH2 and HD6XX setup can offer any more than I get with the Raytheons and Footscrays that you turned me on to.  My primary HP rig is 6SN7 and 6080/6AS7G-based and I use Hifiman Aryas with it.  That's where I'll likely spend my focus in the future unless I upgrade this rig.  Others with a more revealing setup will certainly be eager to hear what other tubes you find and benefit greatly.  I, however, will have to live vicariously through your tube adventures!!


----------



## jonathan c

evanescent said:


> I got mine from ValveTubesOnline, similar to these.


Oh…not Valvoline…I wondered why the car was always drained of oil…no tubes…🤨…


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Sorry, for having a knack for continually finding better tubes.  Going forward, I will do everyone a favor (or myself a favor) and will start keeping them to myself.   Good news folks, all newly discovered tubes will remain a secret from here on out.  So, it actually looks like it's my gain, and nobody's loss.
> 
> Me in the future with all the tubes I have discovered equals pure musical bliss that I did not know my amp was capable of, or could I already be there with my Tungsrams. . .I guess ya'll will never find out.


Say it isn’t so….I always look forward to the next installment of Wes’ Tube Tales ☹️…


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Me in the future with all the tubes I have discovered equals pure musical bliss that I did not know my amp was capable of, or could I already be there with my Tungsrams. . .


Coming to 15367….pair…:


----------



## M-83

This is absolute musical nirvana!  One of my all time favourite tracks.


----------



## G0rt

Dumpster diving in my pile of old bottles, found other triple micas not ancient enough for Vintage plates: 6n3p-dr, from March of '82. Gold grids, too, they say.

Used some in VH2 but moved on, hardly any time in MJ2, so I thought What? Cheepnis.

What was immediately evident was, these ain't even broke in yet: compressed, metallic sounding, even harsh. Ew.

I've gained some experience WRT break-in since then, so...

Now, 30 hours on, I'm amazed how fine they sound. TIGHT.

Strictly amateur bass player me (Eden/Bag End/active Fretless Jazz) so I have a little clue how bass sounds, literally up close and personal. Played an Alembic baritone for some years, so yeah.

Listening to Michael Manring and Tony Levin today with LCD-3f, I'm hearing it. I've enjoyed those with Lyr3/7N7, but MJ2/6n3p-dr is next level.

Russian military 2c51 clones, Foxbat class. Think Fender clean. 🥰🤗😘


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> @Wes S -- I'm just busting your chops.  Hopefully you are not taking me seriously.  Keep doing what you do.  It is appreciated and I'll capitulate at some point in time just like I have previously!
> 
> You have a fabulous amp and quite a few stellar HPs which very likely reveal these differences.  I've hit the end of the line as I just do not think my office rig VH2 and HD6XX setup can offer any more than I get with the Raytheons and Footscrays that you turned me on to.  My primary HP rig is 6SN7 and 6080/6AS7G-based and I use Hifiman Aryas with it.  That's where I'll likely spend my focus in the future unless I upgrade this rig.  Others with a more revealing setup will certainly be eager to hear what other tubes you find and benefit greatly.  I, however, will have to live vicariously through your tube adventures!!


It's all good bro and that all makes total sense.   It's been a long week at work and it seems I forgot how to take a joke.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> It's all good bro and that all makes total sense.   It's been a long week at work joke and it seems I forgot how to take a joke make a long week at work.


FTFY…[Reg. TM; © bcowen: 2021]


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> FTFY…[Reg. TM; © bcowen: 2021]


Good one and prior to this past week, you pretty much nailed it.


----------



## ksorota

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/assorted-12a-7-tubes-for-sale-gold-pin-7728s-and-7730.9262/

Selling some tubes that I do not need anymore.  If anyone on this crazy tube rolling thread wants em I can make a better deal than the listing!  Just reference this thread.


----------



## M-83

Loving Gjallarhorn with Gumby and MJ2 this evening! The Horn is getting better and better and I've noticed a jump in SQ again this evening.

Best DAC, amp and HP combo I've heard to date.

Anyone curious about Gjallarhorn should jump right in, they're absolutely brilliant.


----------



## dclancy

Welp, I managed to get the MJ2 to turn on and stay on. I currently have it on it's own power strip to shut it off. Will probably have to stay that way till I can find someone more handy with a soldering iron than me to replace it.
Good news though, my Brimar CV4033's from Pulse just showed up. Like what I'm hearing so far with no burn in. Hope to break in this weekend.


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Loving Gjallarhorn with Gumby and MJ2 this evening! The Horn is getting better and better and I've noticed a jump in SQ again this evening.
> 
> Best DAC, amp and HP combo I've heard to date.
> 
> Anyone curious about Gjallarhorn should jump right in, they're absolutely brilliant.


That last sentence is for you, Guidostrunk ! And the GHs have the same earspeaker termination as the Clear…


----------



## Wes S (Aug 13, 2021)

I am back at it with another tube rolling marathon today, and I do plan to share my findings after I have rolled them all.  Also, there are a few tubes that I just got (2 of them are readily available at Langrex) and some of my top tubes that I have had for a while in the mix, so this should be fun to compare them all.

Today's participants are from left to right.

1. Tungsram ECC81 Welded Plate O Getter
2.  CBS 7728 1 Hole Plate O Getter
3.  6201 Hamburg PWTMDG
4.  Tungsram ECC82 Black Welded Plate Disc Getter
5.  Brimar CV491 Footscray D Getter
6.  Raytheon 7730 Long Plate Angled Square Getter
7.  RT (Radiotechnique France) 12AU7WA Square Getter
8. Lorenz Stuttgart ECC82 Long Plate Square Getter






Happy Rolling and Listening!


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> That last sentence is for you, Guidostrunk ! And the GHs have the same earspeaker termination as the Clear…


Selling those Horns!


----------



## ksorota

Wes S said:


> I am back at it with another tube rolling marathon today, and I do plan to share my findings after I have rolled them all.  Also, there are a few tubes that I just got (2 of them are readily available at Langrex) and some of my top tubes that I have had for a while in the mix, so this should be fun to compare them all.
> 
> Today's participants are from left to right.
> 
> ...



You can send whichever last place pairs comes in last to me instead of throwing them away...Ill even cover shipping!  

Have fun


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> I am back at it with another tube rolling marathon today, and I do plan to share my findings after I have rolled them all.  Also, there are a few tubes that I just got (2 of them are readily available at Langrex) and some of my top tubes that I have had for a while in the mix, so this should be fun to compare them all.
> 
> Today's participants are from left to right.
> 
> ...


There goes that damned Texas electric grid AGAIN…


----------



## Ripper2860

We'll be fine.  He's not putting them all in at the same time.


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> We'll be fine.  He's not putting them all in at the same time.


What about turn amp(s) on…turn amp(s) off…?😜


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 13, 2021)

Good point.  I'm sure he'll be turning off the air conditioner to reduce the load on our fragile power grid.  @Wes S is committed to contributing to the tube-rolling community -- even at great personal expense and discomfort.


----------



## jonathan c

~ As for turning hpa on and turning hpa off…I have been hpa rolling….(West Penn Power is fine…far from TX…😜)
~ The hpa involved have been the Linear Tube Audio MZ3, Schiit Mjolnir II, Schiit Valhalla II, Woo WA6, HeadAmp GSX-mini, and Violectric V280. The headphones used have been the Gjallarhorn JM Edition and the ZMF Auteur.
~ The Mjolnir II, _with the ksorota capmods,_ (aka Ksorolnir) is a fantastic hpa itself. Its many positive attributes are familiar to owners and are coveted by non-owners: holographic imaging, height/depth of soundstage, wide dynamics, etc.
~ One attribute of the Mjolnir II that has captivated me, and that is present in my other tube-based hpa, is this (bear with me please).
~ In reproducing the air between instruments and voices, the Mjolnir II does not ‘electrically energise’ that air. The best solid-state hpa that I have heard ‘electrify’ that air to some extent. In real life, that air is ‘electrically inert’ while sound moves through it. While being a tube/ss hybrid, the Mjolnir II captures this essence of fine tube hpa - thereby significantly increasing its realism.
~ It has taken me this hpa rotation to appreciate the contribution of this attribute to my listening pleasure. As Wes would say, “long live Ksorolnir”!


----------



## TK16

ksorota said:


> You can send whichever last place pairs comes in last to me instead of throwing them away...Ill even cover shipping!
> 
> Have fun


I got dibs on the 6201 if they come in last. Not confident in my chances.


----------



## billerb1

Ripper2860 said:


> @Wes S -- I'm just busting your chops.  Hopefully you are not taking me seriously.  Keep doing what you do.  It is appreciated and I'll capitulate at some point in time just like I have previously!
> 
> You have a fabulous amp and quite a few stellar HPs which very likely reveal these differences.  I've hit the end of the line as I just do not think my office rig VH2 and HD6XX setup can offer any more than I get with the Raytheons and Footscrays that you turned me on to.  My primary HP rig is 6SN7 and 6080/6AS7G-based and I use Hifiman Aryas with it.  That's where I'll likely spend my focus in the future unless I upgrade this rig.  Others with a more revealing setup will certainly be eager to hear what other tubes you find and benefit greatly.  I, however, will have to live vicariously through your tube adventures!!


Ditto on Ripper.  I hope you know me enough to know you can't take a damn thing I say seriously.  And just for the record my Tele ECC801S's have given way again to the 455's.  I'm still torn between the two.  My avatar will ultimately tell the story.


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> And just for the record my Tele ECC801S's have given way again to the 455's.  I'm still torn between the two.  My avatar will ultimately tell the story.


….Telefunken v Brimar….Germany v Great Britain….World War II?….No, World War Tube….🤪….😒….


----------



## bcowen

ksorota said:


> You can send whichever last place pairs comes in last to me instead of throwing them away...Ill even cover shipping!
> 
> Have fun


I'm betting he'll sell them all once this comes in:


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> ….Telefunken v Brimar….Germany v Great Britain….World War II?….No, World War Tube….🤪….😒….


I'm pretty sure those Tele ECC801S's were made in Bangladesh, but there's a slight possibility I'm wrong.


----------



## billerb1

bcowen said:


> I'm pretty sure those Tele ECC801S's were made in Bangladesh, but there's a slight possibility I'm wrong.


The last time my son listened to them he did say that they sounded a little thin.  Maybe you're on to something.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I'm betting he'll sell them all once this comes in:


What a freaking bargain for a 3x mica tube built like a tank obviously with state of the art features like the bamboo getter post.


----------



## bcowen

billerb1 said:


> The last time my son listened to them he did say that they sounded a little thin.  Maybe you're on to something.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> What a freaking bargain for a 3x mica tube built like a tank obviously with state of the art features like the bamboo getter post.


LOL!  Not all tanks were created equally.  But bamboo is bamboo, so there's that.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> I'm pretty sure those Tele ECC801S's were made in Bangladesh, but there's a slight possibility I'm wrong.


Those would have a ‘turban’ getter atop the bamboo getter support…


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> LOL!  Not all tanks were created equally.  But bamboo is bamboo, so there's that.


…a NOP (new old prototype) for the amp the world might have known as Tancubus ?…


----------



## TK16

Well managed to stay on the wagon a few weeks and now have another mediocre testing 6201 Df1 6201 PW D-getter incoming. Talking with my sponsor now. 😃


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Well managed to stay on the wagon a few weeks and now have another mediocre testing 6201 Df1 6201 PW D-getter incoming. Talking with my sponsor now. 😃


Nice man!  I was hoping you got that one, if it's the one I was watching.  I am just about to roll my 6201 DF1 D Getter in for this morning's session.  The insanely/wildly holographic stage with crystal clear transparency and forward vocals, all while never sounding forced or harsh is what this tube is all about.  The 6201 is also a master of creating nuance.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Nice man!  I was hoping you got that one, if it's the one I was watching.  I am just about to roll my 6201 DF1 D Getter in for this morning's session.  The insanely/wildly holographic stage with crystal clear transparency and forward vocals, all while never sounding forced or harsh is what this tube is all about.  The 6201 is also a master of creating nuance.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-Rare...8-e4be-4ab2-a66a-c8a02dad7835&redirect=mobile
This is it, supposed to ship today. Still waiting on my Langrex CV455, took them a week to reply on my not receiving it emails.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-Rare...8-e4be-4ab2-a66a-c8a02dad7835&redirect=mobile
> This is it, supposed to ship today. Still waiting on my Langrex CV455, took them a week to reply on my not receiving it emails.


You could have bought 2 (two!) tubes for almost the same price, and from one of the best sellers on Ebay to boot.  You must have bumped your head when you fell off the wagon.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> You could have bought 2 (two!) tubes for almost the same price, and from one of the best sellers on Ebay to boot.  You must have bumped your head when you fell off the wagon.


Luckily this was a picture of a listing and not a clickable link to the sale. Dodged 1 there.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Luckily this was a picture of a listing and not a clickable link to the sale. Dodged 1 there.


I bought them for you.  I'll put the invoice in the box when I send them, and since it's you the packaging and handling fees will be discounted.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I bought them for you.  I'll put the invoice in the box when I send them, and since it's you the packaging and handling fees will be discounted.


I'll pay extra if you just send 2 empty tube boxes. 100% serious. 😂


----------



## bcowen (Aug 14, 2021)

TK16 said:


> I'll pay extra if you just send 2 empty tube boxes. 100% serious. 😂


Your command is my wish.  Do you want me to write anything on them, like "Super Unobtanium Holy Grail End Game 6201 Guaranteed's To Work Excellent's In Your Gear's | 4000/4000 : 4000/4000," or leave them blank for you to write on?   






I'll even double-box the boxes, but only for you.


----------



## ksorota

bcowen said:


> Your command is my wish.  Do you want me to write anything on them, like "Super Unobtanium Holy Grail End Game 6201 Guaranteed's To Work Excellent's In Your Gear's | 4000/4000 : 4000/4000," or leave them blank for you to write on?
> 
> 
> 
> I'll even double-box the boxes, but only for you.



Custom artwork. Unique to each box if you don’t mind.


----------



## bcowen

ksorota said:


> Custom artwork. Unique to each box if you don’t mind.


No problem. This will go on one box:





And this on the other:





I'll have to charge extra for artwork on the boxes double-box though.


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> I'll pay extra if you just send 2 empty tube boxes. 100% serious. 😂


A dream come true for Bangybang!…..Or is it ‘wege_high_tubeboxes’?…


----------



## jonathan c

Well, these were not empty boxes…Mjolnir / Valhalla, here we come…


----------



## Wes S (Aug 15, 2021)

TK16 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-Rare...8-e4be-4ab2-a66a-c8a02dad7835&redirect=mobile
> This is it, supposed to ship today. Still waiting on my Langrex CV455, took them a week to reply on my not receiving it emails.


That is a different one, than what I was watching.   Also, I have bought a bunch of EL84's from that same seller and half of them were noisy, so fingers crossed that one is quiet.


----------



## Wes S (Aug 15, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Well, these were not empty boxes…Mjolnir / Valhalla, here we come…


Just an FYI, the latter years Tungsrams like that one, sound absolutely nothing like the earlier ones.  Welded plates are the key, to finding the good ones.


----------



## Wes S (Aug 15, 2021)

So, the tube rolling marathon has come to an end, and there is one tube that has risen above all the rest, and it's not even close.  In fact, the tube that came out on top, is so much better than all the rest, that there really is no contest.  I was assuming I would have several tubes of equal caliber, but after comparing them all back to back the Tungsram ECC82 Black Welded Plate Foil Disc Getter is the King.  This Tungsram makes all other tubes and especially the 6201 PWTMDG sound artificial, with disjointed stage presentations.  I knew the Tungsram was special when I first heard it, but after completing this tube rolling marathon with some very heavy hitters, the Tungsram is clearly superior in how it makes things sound so freaking real it is haunting.   The stage opens up and fills the room as if the headphones are not even there anymore and I hear every little nuance and things I have never heard before with any other tube, as if I was there like never before.  Long live Tungsram Black Plates!

The king of the all ECC__ tubes, the Tungsram ECC82 Black Welded Plates Foil Disc Getter 56'.  The black plate version is the one to find folks.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> So, the tube rolling marathon has come to an end, and there is one tube that has risen above all the rest, and it's not even close.  In fact, the tube that came out on top, is so much better than all the rest, that there really is no contest.  I was assuming I would have several tubes of equal caliber, but after comparing them all back to back the Tungsram ECC82 Black Welded Plate Foil Disc Getter is the King.  This Tungsram makes all other tubes and especially the 6201 PWTMDG sound artificial, with disjointed stage presentations.  I knew the Tungsram was special when I first heard it, but after completing this tube rolling marathon with some very heavy hitters, the Tungsram is clearly superior in how is make things sound so freaking real it is haunting.   The stage opens up as if the headphones are not even there anymore and I hear every little nuance and things I have never heard before with any other tube.
> 
> The king of the all ECC__ tubes, the Tungsram ECC82 Black Welded Plates Foil Disc Getter 56'.  The black plate version is the one to find folks.


You're the third person that hears the 6201 like I did. I always thought the soundstage presentation sounded off to me. Strange placement of everything lol.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Are these what I'm looking for Wes?


----------



## Wes S (Aug 15, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Are these what I'm looking for Wes?


Edit - These are actually the correct ones.  Correction see post # 5718


----------



## ksorota

Question for you guys. 

How much variation have you found in “same” tubes. Could a grey plate tungsram ever sound like a black plate version, or Vice versa?

It is somewhat astonishing how reliably consistent these old tubes are considering headphone variations are a very real issue for some manufacturers.


----------



## TK16

ksorota said:


> Question for you guys.
> 
> How much variation have you found in “same” tubes. Could a grey plate tungsram ever sound like a black plate version, or Vice versa?
> 
> It is somewhat astonishing how reliably consistent these old tubes are considering headphone variations are a very real issue for some manufacturers.


After rolling, buying, selling tubes I have found the 50's versions of tubes as easily the best. Though audio is very subjective. Have no opinion on the Tungsram as I never heard them.


----------



## Wes S (Aug 15, 2021)

ksorota said:


> Question for you guys.
> 
> How much variation have you found in “same” tubes. Could a grey plate tungsram ever sound like a black plate version, or Vice versa?
> 
> It is somewhat astonishing how reliably consistent these old tubes are considering headphone variations are a very real issue for some manufacturers.


I was actually just wondering this exact very thing, so I pulled out another one of my grey plate Tungsram's and I think there was something wrong with my other grey plate.  The grey welded plate Tungsram I am currently listening to, actually sounds more in line with my other Black Plates and maybe even a bit more transparent but definitely very close.  I was looking closely at my grey and black plates and they look identical except for the coating on the plates, and now that I got that bad tube out of the mix they sound very very much a like.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Are these what I'm looking for Wes?


Sam, I need to correct myself and these are what you are looking for.  As long as the plates are Welded with no holes in them and there is a Foil Disc Getter connected to a single arm, then that's where the magic is.  I am going to be comparing my good grey welded plate to my black welded plate Tungsram today, and will report back with more elaboration.


----------



## Wes S (Aug 15, 2021)

They look identical other than the coating on the plate.   Had a quick ab session this morning, and they sound very very similar.  More to come on the differences if there are any, after a couple more swaps. . .


----------



## ksorota (Aug 15, 2021)

Nervosa intensifies...

Not really I suppose…more like the hunt continues.


----------



## Wes S (Aug 15, 2021)

TK16 said:


> After rolling, buying, selling tubes I have found the 50's versions of tubes as easily the best. Though audio is very subjective. Have no opinion on the Tungsram as I never heard them.


I agree with the 50's versions being the best.  All the tubes I am currently running, are from the 50's.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> They look identical other than the coating on the plate.   Had a quick ab session this morning, and they sound very very similar.  More to come on the differences if there are any, after a couple more swaps. . .


Dangit.  My ECC82's have shorter (gray) plates with clinch holes (ie: not welded).  Oh well.

But on a FWIW comment, I've used a pair of long black plate Tungsram E88CC's in my big rig DAC for close to 5 years now.  That DAC stays on 24/7 with only occasional shut downs for vacation, ugly thunderstorms, cleaning, etc.  Kind of a pain to get to the tubes as the top cover has to be removed so that application doesn't easily lend itself to tube rolling, but I pulled them out about 6 months ago and both still tested upwards of 75% of NOS GM (they were ~105% initially).  Not a hint of noise, microphonics, etc. even after all those hours, and particularly unusual (IME) for a 6922-family tube.  Seems the Hungarians knew how to make tubes quite well.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Dangit.  My ECC82's have shorter (gray) plates with clinch holes (ie: not welded).  Oh well.
> 
> But on a FWIW comment, I've used a pair of long black plate Tungsram E88CC's in my big rig DAC for close to 5 years now.  That DAC stays on 24/7 with only occasional shut downs for vacation, ugly thunderstorms, cleaning, etc.  Kind of a pain to get to the tubes as the top cover has to be removed so that application doesn't easily lend itself to tube rolling, but I pulled them out about 6 months ago and both still tested upwards of 75% of NOS GM (they were ~105% initially).  Not a hint of noise, microphonics, etc. even after all those hours, and particularly unusual (IME) for a 6922-family tube.  Seems the Hungarians knew how to make tubes quite well.


My dac has 10 or 12 screws holding the top cover. I reduced that to 4 screws on top and still a pain to roll in tubes.


----------



## TK16

Cheap strong May 54 Copenhagen welded plate ECC82 single. Decent price.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-Rare-ANOS-Amperex-12AU7-ECC82-Tube-WELD-PLATE-D-Getter-E82cc-ECC802s-B329/224486460393?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=94ea18cffde648f9af258c61c62646ba&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=224486460393&itm=224486460393&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=Amperex,pageci:50a65016-fdd5-11eb-ad59-caea7ec31402|parentrq:4a38736417b0a9bd517c2934ffc54e40|iid:1&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&pageci=3d6c05fb-e754-462b-a007-b074a5df4df9&redirect=mobile


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Cheap strong May 54 Copenhagen welded plate ECC82 single. Decent price.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-Rare-ANOS-Amperex-12AU7-ECC82-Tube-WELD-PLATE-D-Getter-E82cc-ECC802s-B329/224486460393?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=94ea18cffde648f9af258c61c62646ba&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=224486460393&itm=224486460393&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=Amperex,pageci:50a65016-fdd5-11eb-ad59-caea7ec31402|parentrq:4a38736417b0a9bd517c2934ffc54e40|iid:1&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&pageci=3d6c05fb-e754-462b-a007-b074a5df4df9&redirect=mobile


If you decide not to get that and since you don't have a Tungsram, I bought these for you.


----------



## G0rt

bcowen said:


> If you decide not to get that and since you don't have a Tungsram, I bought these for you.


But how do they sound?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> If you decide not to get that and since you don't have a Tungsram, I bought these for you.


I have a bunch of white boxes, what's the sound signature compared to the Tungsram boxes?


----------



## Wes S (Aug 15, 2021)

So, the verdict is in after multiple swaps back and forth between the Grey and Black Welded Plate Tungsrams, and they actually don't sound the exact same.  I have confirmed this by using 2 different Black Plates of which sound identical and 1 Grey Plate.  First off, let me just say that both of these tubes are better than any of my other tubes in the ECC81 and ECC82 families.  The Black Plate has stronger, fuller and deeper sounding sub bass, while the Grey Plates bass still hits and digs deep but is more linear overall.  The mids are a bit more open sounding on the Black Plates, and they are a bit more foward with the Grey Plates and especially with the vocals.  Both tubes are every bit as clear as the other in the mids they just present them slightly different.  The highs are about the same on both with really good extension, while never harsh.  You can really crank the volume with both of these tubes, as they as so well balanced.  Overall, I feel like the Black Plate is a slightly refined version of the Grey Plate, and both tubes are tops.  The Black Plate has a bigger and more open feeling stage, with more air and it allows me to hear more nuance and just sounds more lifelike with the extra space it creates.  Also, with the bass being just a bit bigger with the Black Plate you feel the music more and the engagement factor is a 10 vs a 9.5 with the Grey Plate.  So, with all that said, if you see either one of these versions I would jump on them, as they are really special tubes.  Long live Tungsram!


----------



## Wes S

FYI - The bad and noisy Tungsram Grey Plate that I had this morning, came from this same listing and seller.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/194137564099

I would avoid that one if it were me, since there are no returns.  Learn from my mistake.


----------



## Wes S (Aug 15, 2021)

The Queen and King.


----------



## bcowen

G0rt said:


> But how do they sound?


Well, kind of thin and boxed-in.  But that's just me.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Well, kind of thin and boxed-in.  But that's just me.


That's some thinking outside the box bro.😁


----------



## roman410

TK16 said:


> My dac has 10 or 12 screws holding the top cover. I reduced that to 4 screws on top and still a pain to roll in tubes.


On my Lite DAC-60 I keep cover unscrewed. The real pain for me to roll in tubes it is, I have to remove dac from my audio rack and drain caps before touching the tubes. 
Also the height of the dac it is too low to roll tubes with tube savers or adapters😪


----------



## TK16

roman410 said:


> On my Lite DAC-60 I keep cover unscrewed. The real pain for me to roll in tubes it is, I have to remove dac from my audio rack and drain caps before touching the tubes.
> Also the height of the dac it is too low to roll tubes with tube savers or adapters😪


Got the Lite Dac 68, same height problem. I can roll long bottle 6922 and other ecc88 variants. I can use the mini 2c51 adapter with WE 396A and similar size variants.


----------



## bcowen

roman410 said:


> On my Lite DAC-60 I keep cover unscrewed. The real pain for me to roll in tubes it is, I have to remove dac from my audio rack and drain caps before touching the tubes.
> Also the height of the dac it is too low to roll tubes with tube savers or adapters😪


Not putting all the screws back in causes my OCD to flare up.  Thank goodness for gear with exposed tubes.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> FYI - The bad and noisy Tungsram Grey Plate that I had this morning, came from this same listing and seller.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/194137564099
> 
> I would avoid that one if it were me, since there are no returns.  Learn from my mistake.


Had a bad experience with this seller myself. Bought a pair of Telefunken ECC801s. Hated the sound sig. 1 tube did not have the Telefunken diamond and I had to return the pair and they sent me a different pair which I sold immediately after I received the replacement. Their Telefunken paint was not the easily rubbed off paint. The construction was definitely Telefunken and the buyer was happy. I'd ask them for replacement or a refund. Sellers don't like negative feedback and most (not all) will work with you on that.


----------



## roman410 (Aug 15, 2021)

TK16 said:


> Got the Lite Dac 68, same height problem. I can roll long bottle 6922 and other ecc88 variants. I can use the mini 2c51 adapter with WE 396A and similar size variants.


Same experience, still have couple pairs of Tungsol,CBS 2c51 and WE 396A tubes on my tube drawer.
Still burning my second pair of Brimar CV455 tubes what I planing use on my DAC 60. If I will settle down  with this tubes will have to keep cover of permanently or I can add tube savers and drill holes to the cover to expose tubes to bring look close to Empirical Audio Spoiler DAC..


----------



## Wes S (Aug 16, 2021)

Back to the discussion of Black plates vs. Grey plates, I have been very interested in this after this weekend's findings with my Tungsram's, and I think this article is interesting, and seems to have some valid points on the subject.  https://tubemaze.info/tubes-black-gray-plates/

I don't think one is plate is really better than the other, but they clearly do have an effect on sound.


----------



## jonathan c (Aug 16, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Well, these were not empty boxes…Mjolnir / Valhalla, here we come…


A bit of a detour in getting to Mjolnir / Valhalla. They are currently starring in a trio performance with a Mullard GZ34 (in Woo WA6, 1st generation). _Very special, indeed! _For less than $100/pair (ex taxes), _incroyable!_ Wes, you did it again! **

[** high praise indeed: Miles Davis said the same about producer Teo Macero on his contributions to (A Tribute To) Jack Johnson]


----------



## Wes S (Aug 17, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> A bit of a detour in getting to Mjolnir / Valhalla. They are currently starring in a trio performance with a Mullard GZ34 (in Woo WA6, 1st generation). _Very special, indeed! _For less than $100/pair (ex taxes), _incroyable!_ Wes, you did it again! **
> 
> [** high praise indeed: Miles Davis said the same about producer Teo Macero on his contributions to (A Tribute To) Jack Johnson]


Just throwing this out there, but I can't take credit for that one, as that tube actually looks like an RFT (German) made tube, not a Tungsram (Hungary) made tube.     I have seen a lot of RFT rebrands with ECC81 tubes from 70's lately, and that tube sure looks like one to me.

Speaking of RFT. . .stay tuned for some reviews of an earlier version (early 60's) in the near future.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Just throwing this out there, but I can't take credit for that one, as that tube actually looks like an RFT (German) made tube, not a Tungsram (Hungary) made tube.     I have seen a lot of RFT rebrands with ECC81 tubes from 70's lately, and that tube sure looks like one to me.
> 
> Speaking of RFT. . .stay tuned for some reviews of an earlier version (early 60's) in the near future.


RFT rebrand or original, these are wonderful!….don’t mess with the Wes…😜👊…


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> Just throwing this out there, but I can't take credit for that one, as that tube actually looks like an RFT (German) made tube, not a Tungsram (Hungary) made tube.     I have seen a lot of RFT rebrands with ECC81 tubes from 70's lately, and that tube sure looks like one to me.
> 
> Speaking of RFT. . .stay tuned for some reviews of an earlier version (early 60's) in the near future.


Interested in your impressions on the RFT, never heard anything positive about them.


----------



## JohnBal

I have used these RFT rebranded for Tesla and love them. Right up near the top for me. The only thing with them is the top end is a hint softer than some others, which may or may not be a good thing for you depending on your system. But I found the bass on them to hit as hard as anything I have heard and offer a nice strong rumble. Super clear sounding midrange. Incredibly clear actually. I really like mine. Notice the build has the 2 large support rods on each side of the getter. Different than other RFT's I have seen. Got mine at Tubemonger years ago.


----------



## Wes S (Aug 17, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> RFT rebrand or original, these are wonderful!….don’t mess with the Wes…😜👊…


Good to know those sound wonderful!  I have an early one on the way, and can't wait to hear it.


JohnBal said:


> I have used these RFT rebranded for Tesla and love them. Right up near the top for me. The only thing with them is the top end is a hint softer than some others, which may or may not be a good thing for you depending on your system. But I found the bass on them to hit as hard as anything I have heard and offer a nice strong rumble. Super clear sounding midrange. Incredibly clear actually. I really like mine. Notice the build has the 2 large support rods on each side of the getter. Different than other RFT's I have seen. Got mine at Tubemonger years ago.


Nice!


----------



## JohnBal

Wes S said:


> Good to know those sound wonderful!  I have an early one on the way, and can't wait to hear it.
> 
> Nice!


Mine also have the nice bright flash at power on. Nice light show from these RFT.


----------



## TK16

JohnBal said:


> I have used these RFT rebranded for Tesla and love them. Right up near the top for me. The only thing with them is the top end is a hint softer than some others, which may or may not be a good thing for you depending on your system. But I found the bass on them to hit as hard as anything I have heard and offer a nice strong rumble. Super clear sounding midrange. Incredibly clear actually. I really like mine. Notice the build has the 2 large support rods on each side of the getter. Different than other RFT's I have seen. Got mine at Tubemonger years ago.


Not knowing the construction on these tubes myself, are you sure they are RFT? They have a specific Tesla factory code "32", military crosses and Tesla date code.


----------



## JohnBal

TK16 said:


> Not knowing the construction on these tubes myself, are you sure they are RFT? They have a specific Tesla factory code "32", military crosses and Tesla date code.


https://www.tubemonger.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=792
This is the Tubemonger write up. Other than that, I couldn't say for sure who made them. But I like.


----------



## Wes S

The RFT's that I am after and have one on the way, look like these.  Preferably, the one in the middle is what I am after, as it's the earliest version with a Foil Disc Getter.


----------



## M-83

Check out "Everything We Had to Leave Behind" by Chicane & Joseph Aquilina on Amazon Music.
https://music.amazon.co.uk/albums/B...08WPH4SWS&ref=dm_sh_2K8X7AaZIFRLvp7QfHp73oEdu


----------



## M-83

I'm considering selling my ZMF VO and Feliks Echo, and move up to Empyrean. 

I have read that the synergy with Gumby and MJ2 is excellent.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> The RFT's that I am after and have one on the way, look like these.  Preferably, the one in the middle is what I am after, as it's the earliest version with a Foil Disc Getter.


Is the 3rd 1 still available? Really digging the bent pins!


----------



## G0rt

Live music adaptors for the headphone crowd...


----------



## Guidostrunk

G0rt said:


> Live music adaptors for the headphone crowd...


😂


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> I'm considering selling my ZMF VO and Feliks Echo, and move up to Empyrean.
> 
> I have read that the synergy with Gumby and MJ2 is excellent.


The Empyrean have a ‘gentle’ sound to them; the Mjolnir II w/capmod would be a tonal / textural offset. I sold the Empyrean a while back - I sensed a limited dynamic range + the metal outer headbands were microphonic.


----------



## jonathan c (Aug 17, 2021)

These are the BEST…..they are 193X Headscrays…..with binaural getters…..only two were ever made !


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> These are the BEST…..they are 193X Headscrays…..only two were ever made !


🤦‍♂️😂😂😂 Headscrays!


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> The Empyrean have a ‘gentle’ sound to them; the Mjolnir II w/capmod would be a tonal / textural offset. I sold the Empyrean a while back - I sensed a limited dynamic range + the metal outer headbands were microphonic.


Thx for your thoughts. I am looking at options as to where to go from VO and Gjallarhorn to a higher end planar that can be the only HP I need/want (LCD-X didn't have the bass qty I am looking for)

Gjallarhorn is my favourite headphone so far and I really enjoy it. Yet planar still calls...


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> A bit of a detour in getting to Mjolnir / Valhalla. They are currently starring in a trio performance with a Mullard GZ34 (in Woo WA6, 1st generation). _Very special, indeed! _For less than $100/pair (ex taxes), _incroyable!_ Wes, you did it again! **
> 
> [** high praise indeed: Miles Davis said the same about producer Teo Macero on his contributions to (A Tribute To) Jack Johnson]


I use a pair of CV378's (GZ37) in my big rig amp.  Haven't rolled a bunch of rectifiers in it, but the Mullards make me not want to.


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Thx for your thoughts. I am looking at options as to where to go from VO and Gjallarhorn to a higher end planar that can be the only HP I need/want (LCD-X didn't have the bass qty I am looking for)
> 
> Gjallarhorn is my favourite headphone so far and I really enjoy it. Yet planar still calls...


~ If the LCD-X did not have the bass quantity you sought, what about EQ (jonathan c shudders…)? Perhaps the Schiit Lokius to go with the Mjolnir II?
~ If you are hankering for a magnetic planar headphone (I hope not just for being a planar), there is the Kennerton Rognir closed-back that is getting great commentary. Should be a good match to Mjolnir II…


----------



## bcowen

M-83 said:


> Thx for your thoughts. I am looking at options as to where to go from VO and Gjallarhorn to a higher end planar that can be the only HP I need/want (LCD-X didn't have the bass qty I am looking for)
> 
> Gjallarhorn is my favourite headphone so far and I really enjoy it. Yet planar still calls...


The Gjallarhorn looks _very_ intriguing to me, but I'm scared of things I can't pronounce the name of.


----------



## TK16

M-83 said:


> Thx for your thoughts. I am looking at options as to where to go from VO and Gjallarhorn to a higher end planar that can be the only HP I need/want (LCD-X didn't have the bass qty I am looking for)
> 
> Gjallarhorn is my favourite headphone so far and I really enjoy it. Yet planar still calls...


I found the LCD-X needs some EQ to sound it's best in the bass department.


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> Not knowing the construction on these tubes myself, are you sure they are RFT? They have a specific Tesla factory code "32", military crosses and Tesla date code.


That all sounds/looks like Tesla to me…


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> The Gjallarhorn looks _very_ intriguing to me, but I'm scared of things I can't pronounce the name of.


Especially Gjeneral Electrik…..


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> Is the 3rd 1 still available? Really digging the bent pins!


Trying to bridge the gap between octal and nonal…


----------



## Rowethren

M-83 said:


> I'm considering selling my ZMF VO and Feliks Echo, and move up to Empyrean.
> 
> I have read that the synergy with Gumby and MJ2 is excellent.


It isn't quite the same but I owned a ZMF VC at the same time as the Empyreans and used them both with my Gumby/MJ2. After about 6 months I ended up part exchanging my Empyreans to go towards a set of speakers because I never used them. 

I found the VC generally more enjoyable to listen to, better soundstage, more precise, less bass bloom and they are closed on top of that so they isolate really well. The only real advantage the Empyreans had for me is they were marginally more comfortable/lighter but not enough that it bothers me at all.


----------



## TK16

This seller who I've bought from has 2 pair of k61 ECC82's.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips...a-2d72-4639-b514-c36103a2a2df&redirect=mobile
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips...b-a56a-4a36-94da-0857544e059f&redirect=mobile


----------



## TK16

Just got another crappy testing 1958 Df1 6201 PW D getter. They do sound fantastic. Didn't pay a lot for them, so I'm satisfied.


----------



## M-83

Rowethren said:


> It isn't quite the same but I owned a ZMF VC at the same time as the Empyreans and used them both with my Gumby/MJ2. After about 6 months I ended up part exchanging my Empyreans to go towards a set of speakers because I never used them.
> 
> I found the VC generally more enjoyable to listen to, better soundstage, more precise, less bass bloom and they are closed on top of that so they isolate really well. The only real advantage the Empyreans had for me is they were marginally more comfortable/lighter but not enough that it bothers me at all.


Thx for your thoughts.

I've seen a few mixed comments and reviews on Empyrean.

Interesting to see your thoughts compared to VC.

I think I've more mulling over to do before I decide on a move upward.


----------



## billerb1

Just got a Cardas Clear Light headphone cable for some variety with my Moon Audio Premium Black Dragon cable.  Just beginning the burn-in.  Documentation from Cardas said allow for 100 hours of burn-in.  I'm only about 20 hours in and it hasn't loosened up much to this point but I've read good reviews on it.  Anybody here have any experience with the Cardas Clear or the Clear Light headphone cables ?  I'd appreciate your thoughts.


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Thx for your thoughts.
> 
> I've seen a few mixed comments and reviews on Empyrean.
> 
> ...


The more specific or directed your “mulling”, the more likely your next headphone move is “upward” rather than lateral (or diagonally downward…)


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> The more specific or directed your “mulling”, the more likely your next headphone move is “upward” rather than lateral (or diagonally downward…)


Yes true. 

I am doing some reading up on LCD-3 (PF), LCD-3, and LCD-4.


----------



## Wes S

M-83 said:


> Thx for your thoughts.
> 
> I've seen a few mixed comments and reviews on Empyrean.
> 
> ...


Just jumping in to say, that going from the VO no matter the headphone, would be more of a side grade if anything, as in my opinion the VO/VC hold there own against anything out there regardless of price.

I am a serious ZMF fanboy, so I felt compelled to share that.   Also, the VO and VC are very dependent on all parts of the chain, cables and all, so every little tweak to the system makes a difference. I have been quite surprised with the differences I have heard with my VC, changing DAC's, amps, tweaking power cables, tubes, interconnects, ear pads and the headphone cable. I can get my VC to go from super dark all the way to very clean and quick (almost planar like bass and speed), depending on all the tweaks mentioned. The Verite is a very special headphone that scales incredibly well, and when you get it dialed in to your system, it is truly magical. Of course, that does not mean the Verite is for everyone, but it is a TOTL headphone no doubt.

Just my 2 cents on an amazing headphone.


----------



## Guidostrunk

If planars only had the dynamics and holography of a good dynamic can. They say the Susvara accomplishes that. Out of all the planars I've owned they lacked depth and dynamic swings. Overall boring sounding over time.


----------



## Wes S

So, after my recent tube rolling marathon, I have learned that it's Tungsram or nothing for me.  The black welded plate ECC82's are so much better in both my amps than all my other tubes that it's not even a contest.  None of them get me "there" like the Tungsram's do or even come close for that matter.  In fact, these Tungsram's are so good, I am about to start selling off all my other tubes.  The early black welded plate Tungsram's are absolutely stunning tubes, and they have completely ruined all other tubes for me, and now that I have heard what they can do in my amps, nothing else will do.  As a last attempt to hopefully find a contender, I rolled my Raytheon 7730's Long Plate D Getters (of which prior to getting the Tungsram's were my reference tube) into my RH-5 this morning and to my surprise they sound artificial now and just don't engage me like the Tungsram's.  

I truly wish you all could hear this tube, and I really wish it was not so rare.  I have never been so satisfied with the sound of my system as I am now, and I feel like I have finally gotten it to sound like I always dreamed it would and beyond, all thanks to this magical tube.  I have spent so much money and time over the years hunting for the perfect tube, and it has finally paid off.  I can honestly say the Tungsram ECC82 Black Welded Plate Disc Getter is my true "Holy Grail".  

Stayed tuned as I am going through my tubes tonight, to see what I have to sell.  FYI, there will most likely be a pair of Raytheon 7730 Long Plate D-Getters for sale, as well as some other very good tubes.


----------



## jonathan c

One more stop before the Mjolnir II. The Tungsram ECC81 pair is teamed with Melz 6N8S pair (1959). Divine! The Tungsram _may _be an even better match to the Melz than are the Footscrays. Eastern Europe alliance?…[Don’t worry Mjolnir, you’ll get another picture in this thread…]


----------



## TK16

These D-getter Hamburg 6201 are freaking incredible sounding despite the under minimum 2,500 gm. Probably doesn't have much life left in them but as often as I roll should be ok.


----------



## M-83 (Aug 20, 2021)

Happy Friday!

Well I ordered LCD-4 from a UK reseller lol. 

This review is what sealed it for me and the guy could be me in terms of what he looks for in a headphone - https://soundnews.net/headphones/full-size/audeze-lcd-4-review-emotional-triggers/

Only thing is, due to current stock levels, there is a 9-week (October) wait until they come into stock.  Gonna have to be patient.

Edit - stock arrived today so should receive LCD-4 on Monday


----------



## TK16

Is anyone still waiting on your Langrex CV455 initial purchase or on your replacement tubes? Still have not received my replacement.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Never got my first batch. Still waiting on the second batch. I'm emailing them tomorrow for a refund or dispute with PayPal. Won't be shopping there anymore.


----------



## M-83

Anyone know the MJ2 power output at 200 ohms?


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Never got my first batch. Still waiting on the second batch. I'm emailing them tomorrow for a refund or dispute with PayPal. Won't be shopping there anymore.


Give them a deadline to respond and then a dispute. Went from getting a reply in 3 days til a full week. Definitely not buying from them again.


----------



## roman410 (Aug 20, 2021)

M-83 said:


> Anyone know the MJ2 power output at 200 ohms?


This info it is from MJ2 manual
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 8.0W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 5.0W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 850mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 425mW RMS per channel

I am guess round 1.0W.


----------



## M-83

roman410 said:


> This info it is from MJ2 manual
> Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 8.0W RMS per channel
> Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 5.0W RMS per channel
> Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 850mW RMS per channel
> ...


Thanks.

Yeah I'm guessing between 1W and 2W


----------



## M-83

Anyone picking up the new DCA Stealth?

https://danclarkaudio.com/dcastealth.html


----------



## omkazn

_I have a pretty decent solid state amp and wanted to get a tube amp that has enough of the Tubey sound signature without being a full tube amp, could I reasonably achieve that with mjolnir 2 through tube rolling? _


----------



## M-83

End game reached, time to enjoy my rig from here on out:


----------



## jonathan c

omkazn said:


> _I have a pretty decent solid state amp and wanted to get a tube amp that has enough of the Tubey sound signature without being a full tube amp, could I reasonably achieve that with mjolnir 2 through tube rolling? _


~ Yes, if you can find a Mjolnir II. If not, I recommend the Schiit Valhalla II output transformer-less hpa. ($349+taxes etc). It is a tube hpa that is not full-blown “tubey”. It has some of the ‘snap’ of solid-state.
~ You can roll the front tubes (6DJ8/6922 type, experiment with others+adapters). The back tubes are 6N6Ps. To upgrade, go with Foton or NEVZ.
~ The Valhalla II can drive various low impedance hps besides high impedance hps. I use the Valhalla II with Audeze LCD-X (20 ohms) and Gjallarhorn JM Edition (33 ohms). Wonderful!


----------



## omkazn

jonathan c said:


> ~ Yes, if you can find a Mjolnir II. If not, I recommend the Schiit Valhalla II output transformer-less hpa. ($349+taxes etc). It is a tube hpa that is not full-blown “tubey”. It has some of the ‘snap’ of solid-state.
> ~ You can roll the front tubes (6DJ8/6922 type, experiment with others+adapters). The back tubes are 6N6Ps. To upgrade, go with Foton or NEVZ.
> ~ The Valhalla II can drive various low impedance hps besides high impedance hps. I use the Valhalla II with Audeze LCD-X (20 ohms) and Gjallarhorn JM Edition (33 ohms). Wonderful!


Thanks for the detailed feedback. I do have an option on a mjolnir II, would you pick a mjolnir II over a Valhalla II?


----------



## M-83 (Aug 23, 2021)

omkazn said:


> Thanks for the detailed feedback. I do have an option on a mjolnir II, would you pick a mjolnir II over a Valhalla II?


I have no personal experience with Valhalla 2, but I can confirm that MJ2 is fantastic with low/high impedance and planar/dynamic HPs.

I've tried LCD-X,  Gjallarhorn GH50, ZMF Verite Open, ZMF Verite Closed, Mrspeakers Alpha Prime and Audio Technica ATH-AWAS with MJ2 and synergy is great.

Another option, is something like Feliks Echo, Elise or Euforia and/or BH Crack (with or without speedball) as alternatives to Valhalla 2.  From what I've read, the Valhalla will be less warm sounding than Echo. 

FWIW I have had no hum/interference with Echo even when positioned within one foot distance from a router and a PC.  I've heard about issues with hum/interference using some tubes with Valhalla.  YMMV though in either case.

I own an Echo Mk1 and it's awesome with ZMF HPs and other low impedance dynamics like Gjallarhorn and ATH-AWAS.

HTH.

(Edit:  I personally would pick MJ2 over Valhalla)


----------



## Guidostrunk (Aug 23, 2021)

omkazn said:


> Thanks for the detailed feedback. I do have an option on a mjolnir II, would you pick a mjolnir II over a Valhalla II?


Me personally would definitely choose the MJ2 over the Valhalla. Unless you're running high impedance headphones then I recommend the Valhalla.

Edit: personal preference for me even if I had an hd800s I'd still choose MJ2


----------



## jonathan c

omkazn said:


> Thanks for the detailed feedback. I do have an option on a mjolnir II, would you pick a mjolnir II over a Valhalla II?


Mjolnir II over Valhalla II.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 23, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> I use the Valhalla II with Audeze LCD-X (20 ohms)...


If you really want to hear Valhalla 2 struggle, try driving Aeon Flow Closed HPs at 13 ohms.  Poor thing whimpers but still tries with all of its heart.  

Drives the Ikko OH10 IEMs admirably at 18 ohm, however.


----------



## Wes S (Aug 23, 2021)

Anyone interested in a pair of Raytheon 7730 Long Plate D Getters?  They have been listed.


----------



## M-83

Holy hell LCD-4 is good.

I'm less than 90 mins in and it's already by far the best HP I've ever heard (should be at this price though). 

Staggering level of performance.

Vocals are to die for

I've never heard bass drive this deep and hard yet retain so much texture/detail.

I've finally found my Goldilocks headphone.


----------



## UntilThen

M-83 said:


> Holy hell LCD-4 is good.



Enjoy.


----------



## M-83

UntilThen said:


> Enjoy.


Thank you 👍🏼

I'm a couple of hours in and it's just bowled me over. I'm delighted, I honestly didn't realise it would be this good.


----------



## UntilThen

M-83 said:


> Thank you 👍🏼
> 
> I'm a couple of hours in and it's just bowled me over. I'm delighted, I honestly didn't realise it would be this good.



I had the MJ2 with Yggdrasil before. It was great with LCD3f. By the time I got LCD4, I had already sold off the MJ2 but it would be a great pairing I am sure.


----------



## UntilThen

I had Ragnarok and MJ2 at different times but going by memory, I prefer the MJ2 over Rag for headphones.


----------



## M-83

UntilThen said:


> I had the MJ2 with Yggdrasil before. It was great with LCD3f. By the time I got LCD4, I had already sold off the MJ2 but it would be a great pairing I am sure.


I'm not sure I'll go as far as Yggy.

MJ2 I think it's very special and I can already tell it's gonna be great with LCD-4.


----------



## UntilThen

M-83 said:


> I'm not sure I'll go as far as Yggy.
> 
> MJ2 I think it's very special and I can already tell it's gonna be great with LCD-4.


That’s a strange one. I went to the shop to buy Gumby but it’s sold, so I audition Yggy and bought it instead. That’s fate I guess.


----------



## M-83

UntilThen said:


> I had Ragnarok and MJ2 at different times but going by memory, I prefer the MJ2 over Rag for headphones.


From what I've read about Ragnarok and Yggy, I think Gumby and MJ2 are better suited to me. 

I suspect Rag and Yggy may be a little too much erring away from the sightly warm, fun and musical side, and bring a little more neutrality that may not engage me


----------



## M-83

UntilThen said:


> That’s a strange one. I went to the shop to buy Gumby but it’s sold, so I audition Yggy and bought it instead. That’s fate I guess.


Yeah timing maybe played a part there, but Gumby is by far the best DAC I've heard.

Maybe worth trying to luck up a preloved Gumby to compare with Yggy. You would have your answer then. You never know you may prefer Gumby. They go for sale used every now and then.


----------



## UntilThen

M-83 said:


> Maybe worth trying to luck up a preloved Gumby to compare with Yggy. You would have your answer then. You never know you may prefer Gumby. They go for sale used every now and then.



That's certainly something I wouldn't do. I already have 3 dacs and 5 tube amps. They are in my signature. Anymore and I would have to set up a shop to sell them.


----------



## M-83

UntilThen said:


> That's certainly something I wouldn't do. I already have 3 dacs and 5 tube amps. They are in my signature. Anymore and I would have to set up a shop to sell them.


Yeah you do seem to have an abundance of kit.

What's one more dac lol? 😜


----------



## UntilThen

Yeah why not buy this too. Mike Moffat will love me for buying all Schiit dacs.
https://www.stereonet.com/forums/topic/512594-schiit-audio-modi-multibit-dac/


----------



## M-83

UntilThen said:


> Yeah why not buy this too. Mike Moffat will love me for buying all Schiit dacs.
> https://www.stereonet.com/forums/topic/512594-schiit-audio-modi-multibit-dac/


Lol you'll be able to open up your own store.... The Crappr....

I have a Modi Multibit V2. For the price point it's at I don't think there is a better dac tbh.

I'm selling mine very soon though as I have no need for it any more.


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> From what I've read about Ragnarok and Yggy, I think Gumby and MJ2 are better suited to me.
> 
> I suspect Rag and Yggy may be a little too much erring away from the sightly warm, fun and musical side, and bring a little more neutrality that may not engage me


Besides, Ragnarok is designed for loudspeakers and headphones rather than just for headphones. As talented as the Moffat/Stoddard team is, I’d rather have their design skills targeted to one purpose.


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> I have no personal experience with Valhalla 2, but I can confirm that MJ2 is fantastic with low/high impedance and planar/dynamic HPs.
> 
> I've tried LCD-X,  Gjallarhorn GH50, ZMF Verite Open, ZMF Verite Closed, Mrspeakers Alpha Prime and Audio Technica ATH-AWAS with MJ2 and synergy is great.
> 
> ...


😜…despite ‘no personal experience with Valhalla 2’…😜…?


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> 😜…despite ‘no personal experience with Valhalla 2’…😜…?


Yup   

I've not had the opportunity to audition any of my audio gear before buying, so I've had to research the cr*p out of it beforehand to get an idea on the quality / flavour and issues each option can provide. Then taken a calculated risk on it.

You guys in the USA have the Schittr to audition gear (if within the vicinity), I only have my phone to research whilst I'm on the crappr 🤣


----------



## Guidostrunk

M-83 said:


> Yup
> 
> I've not had the opportunity to audition any of my audio gear before buying, so I've had to research the cr*p out of it beforehand to get an idea on the quality / flavour and issues each option can provide. Then taken a calculated risk on it.
> 
> You guys in the USA have the Schittr to audition gear (if within the vicinity), I only have my phone to research whilst I'm on the crappr 🤣


😂😂😂


----------



## M-83

Wow. Getting a little teary eyed listening to this on LCD-4. Just mind-blowingly beautiful:








Check out "Untitled #2 (Fyrsta)" by Sigur Rós on Amazon Music.
https://music.amazon.co.uk/albums/B...07MLTRKV2&ref=dm_sh_5vlORtDbSTBgEiB1qPdjGGVZd


----------



## M-83

Those who love acoustic music....Have a listen to Clem Leek... This album is stunning:



Check out "Bless Those Tired Eyes" by Clem Leek on Amazon Music.
https://music.amazon.co.uk/albums/B...00F44M5CI&ref=dm_sh_3uyTL26egkJQdWPeNfoBNeH8Q


----------



## TK16

Did I miss any new holy grails? My rig (pc) was down a few days. Hours and hours of troubleshooting and the cmos battery on the motherboard was completely dead and a new battery was the remedy. Thought my pc was dead, motherboard and/or cpu and wound up buying a laptop that should be here Wednesday.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Did I miss any new holy grails? My rig (pc) was down a few days. Hours and hours of troubleshooting and the cmos battery on the motherboard was completely dead and a new battery was the remedy. Thought my pc was dead, motherboard and/or cpu and wound up buying a laptop that should be here Wednesday.


I hope the replacement battery is an audio grade one?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I hope the replacement battery is an audio grade one?


It was $5 a 4 pack, next day Prime delivery. I'll check the sound signature differences with a new mb battery and get back to you. 😃


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> Did I miss any new holy grails? My rig (pc) was down a few days. Hours and hours of troubleshooting and the cmos battery on the motherboard was completely dead and a new battery was the remedy. Thought my pc was dead, motherboard and/or cpu and wound up buying a laptop that should be here Wednesday.





TK16 said:


> It was $5 a 4 pack, next day Prime delivery. I'll check the sound signature differences with a new mb battery and get back to you. 😃


GE battery pack…😳😒?…


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Yup
> 
> I've not had the opportunity to audition any of my audio gear before buying, so I've had to research the cr*p out of it beforehand to get an idea on the quality / flavour and issues each option can provide. Then taken a calculated risk on it.
> 
> You guys in the USA have the Schittr to audition gear (if within the vicinity), I only have my phone to research whilst I'm on the crappr 🤣


Well, at least you haven’t cruised down chi-fi highway…PS, I hope that your ‘research’ includes the wisdom (sometimes elusive…) in these posts/threads/forums…


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> It was $5 a 4 pack, next day Prime delivery. I'll check the sound signature differences with a new mb battery and get back to you. 😃


$5 for 4?  You mean solid state batteries?      TK, are you OK?  Does someone need to come check on you?


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> I hope the replacement battery is an audio grade one?


You are a rabbit hole propagandist 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> You are a rabbit energiser bunny hole propagandist 🤣🤣🤣


FTFY…[Reg. TM; © bcowen: 2021]


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> $5 for 4?  You mean solid state batteries?      TK, are you OK?  Does someone need to come check on you?


Only if you promise not to steal my tubes excluding some stock tubes and 6N2P.


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> Only if you promise not to steal my GE tubes excluding and leave some stock tubes and 6N2P.


FTFY…[Reg. TM; © bcowen: 2021]


----------



## G0rt

Late to the party, just ordered some matched '56 CV455, just to see.

Slightly older than the '57 KB/FB in MJ2, older than the 7728's in VH2, but younger than tall 7N7 in Lyr3.

Still ear-worthy, I will blithely assume. 😛


----------



## omkazn

Really appreciate the sharing guys! So much knowledge packed into this thread!


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> Well, at least you haven’t cruised down chi-fi highway…PS, I hope that your ‘research’ includes the wisdom (sometimes elusive…) in these posts/threads/forums…


Well... My first desktop headphone amp back in 2014 was an Audio-Gd NFB-15....

I promptly learned that I didn't like it and so began the long and winding road to HQ head-fi.

Yeah ofc I've researched by asking in these very threads 😉

Mainly this thread and the Alpha Prime thread.

I've spent time in other threads here and there lol.


----------



## regaet (Aug 25, 2021)

One Schiit Mjolnir 2 in B-Stock  230VAC


----------



## bcowen (Aug 25, 2021)

regaet said:


> One Schiit Mjolnir 2 in B-Stock


It's a 230v unit, unfortunately (for me ).


----------



## regaet

bcowen said:


> It's a 230v unit, unfortunately (for me ).


oops, I missed that


----------



## busseysound

I was fortunate enough to get a 115v unit on closeout yesterday.  Very excited to get a Mjolnir 2!  I decided to upgrade to it from a Jot 2.  I'm also going to upgrade to a Gumby from a BF2.


----------



## M-83

busseysound said:


> I was fortunate enough to get a 115v unit on closeout yesterday.  Very excited to get a Mjolnir 2!  I decided to upgrade to it from a Jot 2.  I'm also going to upgrade to a Gumby from a BF2.


Nice one. You're gonna love that Schiit stack!!

Interested to hear your impression of the difference between BF2 and Gumby.


----------



## busseysound

M-83 said:


> Nice one. You're gonna love that Schiit stack!!
> 
> Interested to hear your impression of the difference between BF2 and Gumby.


They're both supposed to arrive in 3 days but I'll switch out the BF2 for the Gumby and use it with the Jotunheim for comparison.


----------



## M-83

busseysound said:


> They're both supposed to arrive in 3 days but I'll switch out the BF2 for the Gumby and use it with the Jotunheim for comparison.


Awesome sounds good. Share some pics when it's all there 👍🏼


----------



## ksorota

This is it…new favorite gin! Mixed or straight up, time to buy a case!


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> This is it…new favorite gin! Mixed or straight up, time to buy a case!


Oh boy... That looks very interesting lol.


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> This is it…new favorite gin! Mixed or straight up, time to buy a case!


I thought that your new favourite was any unopened…


----------



## M-83

ksorota said:


> This is it…new favorite gin! Mixed or straight up, time to buy a case!


I love a good gin. Enjoy!


----------



## ksorota

Just to clarify, it’s a type of still used.  it’s delicious. Smooth and light. Fruity side of botanical, delicate.


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> Just to clarify, it’s a type of still used.  it’s delicious. Smooth and light. Fruity side of botanical, delicate.


Ksorota’s Law (2021): delicate + botanical == diabolical…


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> I love a good gin. Enjoy!


I really prefer the crappy ones 🤪🤣…


----------



## ksorota

M-83 said:


> I love a good gin. Enjoy!


Oh i did. Only took a few days!


----------



## ksorota

jonathan c said:


> jonathan c said:
> 
> 
> > I thought that your new favourite was any unopened…
> ...


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> I really prefer the crappy ones 🤪🤣…


Least you have good taste in audio gear 😜😂


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> This is it…new favorite gin! Mixed or straight up, time to buy a case!


You’ve gone from holy grails…to…holy grains!


----------



## bcowen

> Not sure what you mean by unopened



LOL!  It refers to the period of time required to get from the liquor store to your comfy seat.  About 15 minutes for me.


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> LOL!  It refers to the period of time required to get from the liquor store to your comfy seat.  About 15 minutes for me.


🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> LOL!  It refers to the period of time required to get from the liquor store to your comfy seat.  About 15 minutes for me.


Mine is 7 🤣


----------



## jonathan c

Q:  Is the time from ‘store to comfy chair’ <, =, > time to roll tubes in favourite h/p/a ?


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Q:  Is the time from ‘store to comfy chair’ <, =, > time to roll tubes in favourite h/p/a ?


Oh, much > than.  These are just estimates, and have not been vetted or peer-reviewed:

Small tubes (6922, 12A*7, 6SN7, etc):  1 second to turn amp off, 5 seconds to remove tube (*1*), 3 seconds to insert new tube, 1 second to turn amp on, 5 minutes of warm-up. Total time: 5 minutes 10 seconds.

Power and rectifier tubes (6080, 5998, GX37, 5AR4, etc): 1 second to turn amp off,  30 seconds to don Ove-Glove (*2*), 5 seconds to remove tube, 3 seconds to insert new tube, 1 second to turn amp on, 5 minutes of warm-up. Total time: 5 minutes 40 seconds.

Trip to liquor store: 15 minutes.  Tube roll (worst case): 5 minutes 40 seconds.  Math is hard.    


(*1*) Assumes use of 'tube rolling fingers' where the nerve endings were burned away long ago
(*2*) No nerve endings = no pain, but the smell of burning flesh isn't a joyous aroma


----------



## dclancy (Aug 27, 2021)

Did I miss happy hour?

Got my liquor store run out of the way, time to burn off the fingerprints.


----------



## jonathan c (Aug 27, 2021)

dclancy said:


> Did I miss happy hour?
> 
> Got my liquor store run out of the way, time to burn off the fingerprints.


Chicago?…….and would ‘rural’ ale be malt liquor?


----------



## dclancy

jonathan c said:


> Chicago?…….and would ‘rural’ ale be malt liquor?


Nah, fool! That's "Urban" Ale.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Is Rural cider from the mountains of WV? Or is it Urban hooch? 🤔


----------



## omkazn

Thanks to all the opinions shared from experts here I am a proud new owner of an MJ2! Let the tube rolling adventure begins.

Speaking of which I am having a lot of trouble finding the tungsram Ecc82s, is it a fair thing to say brimar cv4033 and/or cv55 are good alternatives?


----------



## Guidostrunk

omkazn said:


> Thanks to all the opinions shared from experts here I am a proud new owner of an MJ2! Let the tube rolling adventure begins.
> 
> Speaking of which I am having a lot of trouble finding the tungsram Ecc82s, is it a fair thing to say brimar cv4033 and/or cv55 are good alternatives?


All comes down to preference when you get into big league tubes. The cv455 are readily available and reasonably priced. You MIGHT find those tungsram ecc82 over the next few years lol. 
The Footscray tubes are phenomenal. Just make sure you get the adapters to use them.


----------



## bcowen

omkazn said:


> Thanks to all the opinions shared from experts here I am a proud new owner of an MJ2! Let the tube rolling adventure begins.
> 
> Speaking of which I am having a lot of trouble finding the tungsram Ecc82s, is it a fair thing to say brimar cv4033 and/or cv55 are good alternatives?


Congrats!!  

And once you start tube rolling, you _do_ realize that the MJ2 purchase was the least expensive part of this journey, right?


----------



## omkazn

bcowen said:


> Congrats!!
> 
> And once you start tube rolling, you _do_ realize that the MJ2 purchase was the least expensive part of this journey, right?


Thanks!

Haha yea the moment I googled "tungsram ecc82 black plate" and saw some of the items that came up and their prices, I came back here to search for more affordable tubes. Golly...what have I gotten myself into..


----------



## Wes S

I think I might have found another top performing ECC81 folks!  I've got the RFT folded plate ECC81 in the house and currently burning it in, and I am loving what I am hearing so far . . .More to come after burn in, but so far I am really and I mean really liking what I am hearing so far.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> I think I might have found another top performing ECC81 folks!  I've got the RFT folded plate ECC81 in the house and currently burning it in, and I am loving what I am hearing so far . . .More to come after burn in, but so far I am really and I mean really liking what I am hearing so far.


Hey, does this ring a bell?…


----------



## Wes S (Aug 29, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Hey, does this ring a bell?…


LOL!  It never fails, and always get pulled back in.    I need to revise that statement, and it should read. . .  I will never be done with hunting for tubes.


----------



## ksorota

omkazn said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Haha yea the moment I googled "tungsram ecc82 black plate" and saw some of the items that came up and their prices, I came back here to search for more affordable tubes. Golly...what have I gotten myself into..


I have a set of adapters and Raytheon 7728 2-hole plates that I am looking to offload for a good price!


----------



## Wes S

ksorota said:


> I have a set of adapters and Raytheon 7728 2-hole plates that I am looking to offload for a good price!


Those would be a killer first set!


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Hey, does this ring a bell?…


ROFL!!


----------



## Wes S (Aug 29, 2021)

The RFT ECC81 is sounding killer!


----------



## jonathan c (Aug 29, 2021)

👍


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> The RFT ECC81 is sounding killer!


Similar construction to these RFT ECC82's?


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Similar construction to these RFT ECC82's?


Man that is one high quality construction especially the tiny o getter. 😁


----------



## TK16

If anyone is looking for 3 pair of the D-getter Heerlen long plate ECC82? 😉
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-D-...2-9a77-4a8e-910e-eaba7d981370&redirect=mobile


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> If anyone is looking for 3 pair of the D-getter Heerlen long plate ECC82? 😉
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-D-Getter-ECC82-12AU7-Lot-of-SIX-Made-in-Holland-Thomas-Organ-OEM/353648302123?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=546d8673c49d4c7fbde79e617bf61149&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=353648302123&itm=353648302123&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=Amperex,pageci:cea6bd3a-08d6-11ec-a58d-46565ad50ba4|parentrq:92592af817b0ad333af25b28ffeeadb2|iid:1&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&pageci=8a85dd02-9a77-4a8e-910e-eaba7d981370&redirect=mobile


Hmmmm.....I was intrigued until I saw they were from Thomas's organ.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Hmmmm.....I was intrigued until I saw they were from Thomas's organ.


A sale, thus, could be a Tom Dick to Harry…


----------



## TK16

jonathan c said:


> A sale, thus, could be a Tom Dick to Harry…


Hopefully you weren't referring to me with the word after Tom.🤣


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> Hopefully you weren't referring to me with the word after Tom.🤣


No, sir! 👍


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> Hopefully you weren't referring to me with the word after Tom.🤣


😂😂😂


----------



## TK16

jonathan c said:


> No, sir! 👍


It's all good bro, some of the things I been called, that might just be a compliment. 😄


----------



## jonathan c

omkazn said:


> Thanks to all the opinions shared from experts here I am a proud new owner of an MJ2! Let the tube rolling adventure begins.
> 
> Speaking of which I am having a lot of trouble finding the tungsram Ecc82s, is it a fair thing to say brimar cv4033 and/or cv55 are good alternatives?


~ First off, congratulations! Next, a little “tubery”.
~ ECC81 is equivalent to 12AT7: amplification factor (gain) = 60. 
~ ECC82 is equivalent to 12AU7: amplification factor (gain) = 20.
~ ECC83 is equivalent to 12AX7: amplification factor (gain) = 100.
~ The 6DJ8 / 6922 tube types that are standard to Mjolnir II: amplification factor (gain) = 30.
~ The first three types listed above are ‘12-volt’ tubes and _require_ an adapter to operate in a ‘6-volt’ circuit: eg Mjolnir II. The last types listed are ‘6-volt’ tubes and do _not require_ an adapter for use in Mjolnir II.
~ If using a ‘12-volt’ tube for the Mjolnir II, stay with the ECC81 or ECC82. The gain on the ECC83 is too high and will increase noise levels in the circuit. [ECC83 / 12AX7 are used frequently in electric guitar amplifiers.]
~ The Brimar CV4033 and Brimar CV455 are 12AT7 (ECC81) type tubes. Electrically: fine; sonically: out of this world!


----------



## omkazn (Aug 29, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> ~ First off, congratulations! Next, a little “tubery”.
> ~ ECC81 is equivalent to 12AT7: amplification factor (gain) = 60.
> ~ ECC82 is equivalent to 12AU7: amplification factor (gain) = 20.
> ~ ECC83 is equivalent to 12AX7: amplification factor (gain) = 100.
> ...


Damn that is a rock solid summary, thanks a lot for the awesome references!

I see a lot of comments on Brimar CV4033 and CV455, any opinions on each or how they are different?


----------



## jonathan c

omkazn said:


> Damn that is a rock solid summary, thanks a lot for the awesome references!
> 
> I see a lot of comments on Brimar CV4033 and CV455, any opinions on each or how they are different?


Go further back in this thread - May 2021 through July 2021 - much discussion on both tubes. No need to iterate here. Your query is addressed.


----------



## Wes S

bcowen said:


> Similar construction to these RFT ECC82's?


Similar, but not the exact same.  This is what the one I have looks like.


----------



## TK16 (Aug 30, 2021)

Really great price for a 7316 LP D-getter. It is strong but microphonic. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-73...6-9f5b-446f-b0d1-14a466b3d539&redirect=mobile
@Wes S I can confirm the dual post O getter 59 6201 PW is better than the 58 D-getter 6201 PW.
Only thing is the 59 pair is NOS+ testing and the 58 pair is well below minimum testing. The testing numbers probably has a lot to do with it.


----------



## Wes S

TK16 said:


> Really great price for a 7316 LP D-getter. It is strong but microphonic.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-73...6-9f5b-446f-b0d1-14a466b3d539&redirect=mobile
> @Wes S I can confirm the dual post O getter 59 6201 PW is better than the 58 D-getter 6201 PW.
> Only thing is the 59 pair is NOS+ testing and the 58 pair is well below minimum testing. The testing numbers probably has a lot to do with it.


I have bought some low testing tubes in the past and they sounded great until I compared them to the same tube that tested like new.  I noticed the low testing tube lacked dynamics and just seemed off, after comparing it to a good testing tube.  So perhaps that is what you are encountering as well.


----------



## TK16

Wes S said:


> I have bought some low testing tubes in the past and they sounded great until I compared them to the same tube that tested like new.  I noticed the low testing tube lacked dynamics and just seemed off, after comparing it to a good testing tube.  So perhaps that is what you are encountering as well.


Yep the low testing tubes do sound really good until switching to higher testing comparable tubes. Dynamics suffered along with a slightly noticeable muddied sound on the 58's as well as holography and separation. Still sound fantastic though. Got the 58's for a real good price.


----------



## TK16

jonathan c said:


> Go further back in this thread - May 2021 through July 2021 - much discussion on both tubes. No need to iterate here. Your query is addressed.


I'd add an additional 2 threads. The very long Lyr tube rolling thread, I'd start somewhere in the middle of that thread.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/
The LP thread starts off with adapter tubes, though the ECC81, ECC83 (higher gain tubes are not compatible with the LP.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/liquid-platinum-tube-rollers.898852/


----------



## jonathan c

For the Mjolnir II, or the LTA MZ3?, or the Woo WA3?….any way, this is impressive packaging!…


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> For the Mjolnir II, or the LTA MZ3?, or the Woo WA3?….any way, this is impressive packaging!…


Nice!  I have bought tubes from the same guy.  Got to love the box!


----------



## Randolf711 (Aug 30, 2021)

I’m looking to snag some of those Footscrays for my MJ2. Figured out the adapter!


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> A sale, thus, could be a Tom Dick to Harry…


Or Tom's Harry....oh nevermind.  Keep this up and @Ripper2860 will appear.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Or Tom's Harry....oh nevermind.  Keep this up and @Ripper2860 will appear.


Organ?


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Organ?


You missed the 'keep this up' part.  I'm verklempt.


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> You missed the 'keep this up' part.  I'm verklempt.


🤣🤣🤣


----------



## jonathan c

~ A little substitution, prompted by curiosity (what else?), in the h/p system roster for the next few weeks (so I think). The tubes without adapters are the Amperex PQ 7308 (orange print). The headphones are ZMF Auteur. Overall, _completely musical delivery!
~ _We Mjolnir II owners should be thankful; we ‘Ksorolnir’ II (w/capacitor modifications by @ksorota 🥇) owners should be especially thankful.
~ I am guilty of rolling tubes; I also plead _nolo contendere_ to rolling h/p/a. Each time that I return to the Ksorolnir II, I am reminded of and astonished by the melding of the best traits of vacuum tube & solid-state in headphone amplification.


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> ~ A little substitution, prompted by curiosity (what else?), in the h/p system roster for the next few weeks (so I think). The tubes without adapters are the Amperex PQ 7308 (orange print). The headphones are ZMF Auteur. Overall, _completely musical delivery!
> ~ _We Mjolnir II owners should be thankful; we ‘Ksorolnir’ II (w/capacitor modifications by @ksorota 🥇) owners should be especially thankful.
> ~ I am guilty of rolling tubes; I also plead _nolo contendere_ to rolling h/p/a. Each time that I return to the Ksorolnir II, I am reminded of and astonished by the melding of the best traits of vacuum tube & solid-state in headphone amplification.


I see that you're using a cd player. 
I still have this exact player from back in my DJ days. I'm going to have my sister send it back to me lol.
Really curious to see how it sounds. My dilemma is that I do not own a single cd right now 🤣


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> I see that you're using a cd player.
> I still have this exact player from back in my DJ days. I'm going to have my sister send it back to me lol.
> Really curious to see how it sounds. My dilemma is that I do not own a single cd right now 🤣


The Audiolab is transport only. I have had it for two years +. It has operated flawlessly, silently, and extracts the _nth_ degree of detail from CDs. The sound (with the EVO DAC) is natural - that’s it!


----------



## billerb1

jonathan c said:


> ~ First off, congratulations! Next, a little “tubery”.
> ~ ECC81 is equivalent to 12AT7: amplification factor (gain) = 60.
> ~ ECC82 is equivalent to 12AU7: amplification factor (gain) = 20.
> ~ ECC83 is equivalent to 12AX7: amplification factor (gain) = 100.
> ...


Some additional information to piggyback on Jonathan's:


*12AT7:* This USA manufactured tube has wing shaped plates. The early versions have blackplates (later versions have greyplates) with a square or D shaped top getter at the top of the envelope. All are great tubes, and the finest (like the RCA black-plates) are on par with the military and industrial versions. Sometimes “selected” versions of this tube turn up. Often made by large manufacturers like RCA, they are usually labelled with the brand of the product they were selected for. Most often electronic organ brands are found on the label like Baldwin, Wurlitzer, and others. Sometimes hi-fi and musicial instrument amps had select tubes made for them, and labels like McIntosh and Fender turn up. The tips of these tubes are usually painted a color, indicating they have been screened for low noise.
*12AT7WA:* This is a military version of this tube, and may also be listed as a 6201. Some tubes have both type numbers on the label. These usually have thick mica spacers. The RCA versions have extra support posts and tiny “12AX7″ type plates, nearly always black. This tube is usually very low in microphonics due to it’s rugged construction.
*6201:* Frequently, this number appeared along with 12AT7WA (military version) on the same tube. However, some brands made the 6201 as an “industrial” 12AT7. Sylvania made a 6201 in their Gold Brand line, and it came in the distinctive gold box, had gold lettering on the glass, and most (but not all!) had gold plated pins. Amperex made a very nice PQ version of the 6201 with gold pins. A few 6201 tubes, usually early ones, have an extra mica spacer on top, known as “triple mica”, and are noted for lower microphonics. Overall, this tube is a step up from the standard 12AT7, and most were made to meet military specs so that both military and industrial versions could be manufactured on the same assembly line.
*6211:* This unusual tube is listed as a frequency halfer, in addition to being a class-A amplifier dual triode with medium mu. Medium mu means it has lower gain than the typical 12AT7, in fact lower than even the 5965 listed below. It also has much larger, flat plates that have diamond shaped points at the corners bent inwards (in the versions I have seen) that seem to add rigidity to the plate structure. This tube also has slightly lower plate voltage and current ratings
*5965:* This industrial tube is close enough to the 12AT7 that audiophiles have started buying them up and commenting on the low noise of this tube. It most likely is because it has a lower gain, a mu of 47 compared to 60 of a 12AT7. It is kind of like using a 5751 in place of a 12AX7–the lower gain being the main difference. These tubes are still plentiful, and are really well made. GE made a fine version of this tube in their “5-Star” broadcast line. A few have an extra mica spacer on top, known as “triple mica” and noted for lower microphonics. There is also a rare Telefunken version of this tube with long plates.
*E180CC or 7062:* Most often found in European types, typically Amperex or Philips, this tube is virtually the same as a 5965 in regard to electrical specifications. Audiophiles have been seeking it out since the price is generally lower than the premium ECC81 N.O.S. prices currently. Like the 5965, it has slightly lower gain than the 12AT7, and has the added advantage of a 10,000 hour heater life to make it another audiophile “secret” tube. A super bargain when you find them, since they are musical and smooth to listen to, and actually sound better than many standard 12AT7 tubes. This tube is about a half-inch taller than the standard 12AT7, so chassis space is an important consideration.
*6414:* An industrial, computer rated dual triode, virtually the same specs as the E180CC or 7062 listed above. Unlike the E180CC, this tube was made in the U.S.A. It is a more rugged build, with the Raytheon black-plate type sporting triple mica and military ratings. This tube is also like a 12AV7 and will work wonders in any 12AT7 spot, and may be just the ticket if you want to boost the gain of a 12AU7 circuit. The 6414 is getting very hard to find, but with a 10,000 hour heater rating you may never need a replacement. Discussion groups rate this type very highly for use in headphone amps. Stands about 1/2 inch taller than the standard 12AT7.
*6829:* Yet another industrial tube that is very similar to the 5965. This one has a mu factor of 47 so it is slightly lower than the typical 12AT7. Those I have heard are rich, detailed, warm, and thanks to the lower mu, very quiet and low in microphonics. GE made these in their 5-star and military line so they are a rugged and long lasting tube. Like the E180CC, this tube is about a half-inch taller than the 12AT7. An excellent audio bargain now, but prices may soon climb as audiophiles discover them!
*6679:* This is an industrial 12AT7 designed for mobile communications use. It maintains it’s output even if the filament voltage varies. Nice tubes, but they never have been too plentiful. They will work fine in hi-fi use, and are a step up in quality from the standard 12AT7.
*7728:* This was a high-end industrial tube made by CBS or Hytron (same factory made both, actually) with gold pins. Very scarce.
*ECC81:* This is the European version of the 12AT7, and is identical to it. The Telefunken even has the wing shaped blackplates, just like the RCA. Great tubes, equalled only by the RCA blackplate or the military/industrial versions. Even those made for U.S.A. hi-fi products in the 1960s (Knight, Bogen, Daystrom, Dynascan, etc.) are excellent tubes, and have the fine sound quality of those with Mullard, Amperex or Telefunken labels. The rarest are the 1950s versions of Mullard and Amperex with a “D” shaped top getter.
*E81CC or ECC801S:* This is a rare tube, usually found only in the Telefunken or Siemens brand. These tubes have been screened for audio use and low noise, and have a 10,000 hr. rated life on the heater. The ECC801S are by far the rarest, and the E81CC only a little more common. Both are excellent, low noise, finely crafted tubes, with the E81CC being the best value currently when compared to the recent spiraling rise in the ECC801S prices. They are both rare, but if you find some they may well be the last 12AT7 tube you will ever need to buy!
*CV4024 and M8162:* Fine British military tubes from the 1960s and early 1970s. I have seen mostly Mullard examples of these, although Brimar did make some. Depending on the manufacturer, the tube may have both numbers on it. The rarest and best are the early Mullards labeled with M8162 and the shield logo. Most of the Mullard military tubes were made at the Mitcham, UK factory, which made most of the British military tubes.
*CV455:* Another British military type of 12AT7. Usually Brimar was the maker of this fine tube, with the earlier versions from the 1950s being the most desirable. Watch for the versions made in the 1970s. These have wing shape black plates and a sound close to the earlier type, at often half the price!
*6060:* This rare tube is the Brimar answer to the Genalex A2900. It has a similar construction to it. These are sometimes called the “Yellow-T” tube due to the large capital letter “T” in a yellow triangle on the glass. The best of these were made by Brimar at their Footscray, UK factory in the 1950s. Virtually all of these are phono grade, they are very quiet. There are later versions with the “T” logo on a white triangle, but these are not as desirable, sonically, and when found should not be nearly as expensive.
*A2900:* The even scarcer A2900 is in the “Gold Monarch” series by Genalex. Genalex was the premium line of tubes produced by the Marconi-Osram Company in England. It has wide, flat black plates and white lettering on the glass, the words “Gold Monarch” in white script, with the red Genalex decal logo around the top of the tube. There is also a British domestic version with the grey and blue GEC decal on the glass, that was not exported. These are true audiophile tubes, with tightly controlled noise specs, designed with audio perfection in mind. Any scarcer and these would be museum pieces!


----------



## M-83

Had LCD-4 just over a week now and have reached around 20hrs. It's a fantastic HP, and burning in well with clear improvements noticeable in the most recent 5 hours.

The best aspect of the listening experience is the emotion being conveyed.

This is a beautiful track that I just enjoyed by M83:


----------



## busseysound

jonathan c said:


> ~ A little substitution, prompted by curiosity (what else?), in the h/p system roster for the next few weeks (so I think). The tubes without adapters are the Amperex PQ 7308 (orange print). The headphones are ZMF Auteur. Overall, _completely musical delivery!
> ~ _We Mjolnir II owners should be thankful; we ‘Ksorolnir’ II (w/capacitor modifications by @ksorota 🥇) owners should be especially thankful.
> ~ I am guilty of rolling tubes; I also plead _nolo contendere_ to rolling h/p/a. Each time that I return to the Ksorolnir II, I am reminded of and astonished by the melding of the best traits of vacuum tube & solid-state in headphone amplification.


I'm about to try those Amperex 7308 PQ as well with the white lettering.  I'll post how it goes.  I also need to post pictures of my new Mjolnir 2 and Gumby!  (I upgraded from BF2 and Jot2).  I've got some of the Footscray CV455 from Langrex on the way and I keep searching for the Tungsram ECC82 with the specs that Wes shows in his pictures.  Super stoked to try these in the coming weeks. 

I currently use Focal Clears but I've got some VC Sapele in the assembly stage.  Very exciting time for this 50 yr old musician and IT nerd.


----------



## jonathan c (Sep 1, 2021)

busseysound said:


> I'm about to try those Amperex 7308 PQ as well with the white lettering.  I'll post how it goes.  I also need to post pictures of my new Mjolnir 2 and Gumby!  (I upgraded from BF2 and Jot2).  I've got some of the Footscray CV455 from Langrex on the way and I keep searching for the Tungsram ECC82 with the specs that Wes shows in his pictures.  Super stoked to try these in the coming weeks.
> 
> I currently use Focal Clears but I've got some VC Sapele in the assembly stage.  Very exciting time for this 50 yr old musician and IT nerd.


You will love the 7308 PQ. You will really love the Brimar CV455 KB/FB (Footscray). Don’t forget the 12A#7–>ECC88 type adapters. Also, if you cannot find the Tungsram ECC82 tubes, you might try the Tungsram ECC81(a 12AT7 type) which may be easier to get.

edited: correction ‘ECC81’ …thank you bcowen ! (Too much posting on my part…)


----------



## busseysound

jonathan c said:


> You will love the 7308 PQ. You will really love the Brimar CV455 KB/FB (Footscray). Don’t forget the 12A#7–>ECC88 type adapters. Also, if you cannot find the Tungsram ECC82 tubes, you might try the Tungsram ECC83 (a 12AT7 type) which may be easier to get.


Thanks!  So thankful for the posts on this forum - I was really afraid to go down the tube rabbit hole but you guys have helped narrow it down to some exceptional tubes.  I've got the adapter on order and it will take awhile (so will the CV455 KB/FB) but the Amperex tubes should be here in a few days.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> You will love the 7308 PQ. You will really love the Brimar CV455 KB/FB (Footscray). Don’t forget the 12A#7–>ECC88 type adapters. Also, if you cannot find the Tungsram ECC82 tubes, you might try the Tungsram ECC83 (a 12AT7 type) which may be easier to get.


An ECC83 is the equivalent of a 12AX7.  An ECC81 is a 12AT7.  Sorry to nitpick.  Kind of.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> An ECC83 is the equivalent of a 12AX7.  An ECC81 is a 12AT7.  Sorry to nitpick.  Kind of.


Extremely high gain as well, best I could do was turn the gain to low and 7 o'clock on the volume. Only 12ax7 tube types I have left at Tesla 6cc41. Basically an ecc83 that is only 6.3v. I use them in my dac as it doesn't require any adapters. 😆


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> An ECC83 is the equivalent of a 12AX7.  An ECC81 is a 12AT7.  Sorry to nitpick.  Kind of.


Thanks bcowen….too much posting on my part… where is ‘FTFY’?


----------



## M-83

Toying with the idea of rolling in my Amperex ECC88s to compare with CV4033 and see how LCD-4 sounds.

I suspect there may be a little more warmth with the ECC88s.


----------



## Wes S (Sep 1, 2021)

Well, it's been confirmed that another "Grail" level tube has been discovered!  For those with the itch to roll another tube to see how much more lifelike your system can sound, I highly recommend checking out the RFT ECC81 Folded Plates with Foil Getter.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265288187061?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=4ab0ba5aacc64626a1dad27e629728e7&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=265288187061&itm=265288187061&pmt=1&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=RFT&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:2d1dc492-0b1f-11ec-8515-4a105610fa62|parentrq:a14ee37117b0aaf4c9540d5afff0f6ae|iid:1

This tube has insane bass texture, slam and control.  The mids are super transparent with quite possibly the best vocals I have ever heard, and the highs sparkle and soar.  The dynamics and punch are insane and you can feel the music.  The stage is massive and the sound seems to fill the entire room and the headphones just seem to disappear.  This tube has that magical effect of making it feel like you are there with the musicians at the venue.  The refinement and control this tube has over the entire frequency range is incredibly captivating.  I really can't believe how amazing this tube sounds, how readily available they are and how cheap they go for!  Compared to the Tungsram ECC82 Black Plate (my number 1), they are very close and similar in how they have slamming bass, super transparent mids and soaring highs, with a massive and highly immersive stage.  Where they differ is in the vocals with the RFT being a bit more forward and perhaps magical.  I am still trying to decide which tube I like more, but it is very close and I would be happy with either one.


----------



## Wes S

M-83 said:


> Toying with the idea of rolling in my Amperex ECC88s to compare with CV4033 and see how LCD-4 sounds.
> 
> I suspect there may be a little more warmth with the ECC88s.


I bet the bass will be insane with those Amperex ECC88 and your LCD-4!  I had a some of those with D Getters back in the day and remember them being very dynamic and punchy with huge bass.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I will add that they're nicely priced! Incredible tubes! Wes covered everything. These are probably the best tubes to ever come out of Germany. I believe Berlin


----------



## M-83

Wes S said:


> I bet the bass will be insane with those Amperex ECC88 and your LCD-4!  I had a some of those with D Getters back in the day and remember them being very dynamic and punchy with huge bass.


I've just taken the hallowed CV4033's out, and rolled in the Amperex.  Will report back later this evening on how it sounds


----------



## M-83

M-83 said:


> I've just taken the hallowed CV4033's out, and rolled in the Amperex.  Will report back later this evening on how it sounds


So far (prior to CV4033 being burned in), the Amperex ECC88s had been the best tubes I've used in every tube amp (OTL or hybrid.

It will be interesting to see what I think having not heard them for a couple of months now.


----------



## Wes S

M-83 said:


> So far (prior to CV4033 being burned in), the Amperex ECC88s had been the best tubes I've used in every tube amp (OTL or hybrid.
> 
> It will be interesting to see what I think having not heard them for a couple of months now.


Those from Herleen are my favorite in that family as well.  Killer tubes.


----------



## M-83

Wes S said:


> Those from Herleen are my favorite in that family as well.  Killer tubes.


I bought them 7 years ago direct from "Tube Museum New York" on their website.  IIRC they cost me about £200 (GBP sterling).

A quick google search just now shows these - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232046579142 - which appears to be the same variant I have.


----------



## M-83

M-83 said:


> I bought them 7 years ago direct from "Tube Museum New York" on their website.  IIRC they cost me about £200 (GBP sterling).
> 
> A quick google search just now shows these - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232046579142 - which appears to be the same variant I have.


@Wes S Sorry getting mixed up (not concentrating on what I'm clicking on)

I do have a pair of Bugle Boy tubes as per the link I shared above, but they are nowhere near as good as the Amperex ECC88 tubes.


----------



## Wes S (Sep 1, 2021)

M-83 said:


> @Wes S Sorry getting mixed up (not concentrating on what I'm clicking on)
> 
> I do have a pair of Bugle Boy tubes as per the link I shared above, but they are nowhere near as good as the Amperex ECC88 tubes.


I always thought they are the same tube?  Bugle Boy are Amperex tubes, and both are made in the USA and Herleen.


----------



## Rowethren

Wes S said:


> Well, it's been confirmed that another "Grail" level tube has been discovered!  For those with the itch to roll another tube to see how much more lifelike your system can sound, I highly recommend checking out the RFT ECC81 Folded Plates with Foil Getter.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/265288187061?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=4ab0ba5aacc64626a1dad27e629728e7&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=265288187061&itm=265288187061&pmt=1&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=RFT&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:2d1dc492-0b1f-11ec-8515-4a105610fa62|parentrq:a14ee37117b0aaf4c9540d5afff0f6ae|iid:1
> 
> This tube has insane bass texture, slam and control.  The mids are super transparent with quite possibly the best vocals I have ever heard, and the highs sparkle and soar.  The dynamics and punch are insane and you can feel the music.  The stage is massive and the sound seems to fill the entire room and the headphones just seem to disappear.  This tube has that magical effect of making it feel like you are there with the musicians at the venue.  The refinement and control this tube has over the entire frequency range is incredibly captivating.  I really can't believe how amazing this tube sounds, how readily available they are and how cheap they go for!  Compared to the Tungsram ECC82 Black Plate (my number 1), they are very close and similar in how they have slamming bass, super transparent mids and soaring highs, with a massive and highly immersive stage.  Where they differ is in the vocals with the RFT being a bit more forward and perhaps magical.  I am still trying to decide which tube I like more, but it is very close and I would be happy with either one.



How would you compare these to the Footscray CV455?


----------



## M-83

Wes S said:


> I always thought they are the same tube?  Bugle Boy are Amperex tubes, and both are made in the USA and Herleen.  Acid etched codes are best to go by.


You could be right?  Not sure tbh.  I will have to dig out the bugle boys and compare visually with markings etc.

I also have Amperex Orange Globes but I haven't run them for long enough to make any impressions.


----------



## Wes S

M-83 said:


> You could be right?  Not sure tbh.  I will have to dig out the bugle boys and compare visually with markings etc.
> 
> I also have Amperex Orange Globes but I haven't run them for long enough to make any impressions.


Take a look at the acid etched codes, as those will tell you.


----------



## Wes S

Rowethren said:


> How would you compare these to the Footscray CV455?


The RFT is much more open sounding and transparent, with better extension on both ends.  The soundstage is absolutely massive with the RFT and there is more space and seperation, than with the CV455.  The detail with the RFT is tops as well, and so far the only tube I have heard that can compete and sounds similar is the Tungsram ECC82 Black Welded Plates.


----------



## M-83 (Sep 1, 2021)

Wes S said:


> Take a look at the acid etched codes, as those will tell you.


The tubes with Amperex ECC88 written on them appear to be "215" in white, then in grey on one tube  a triangle then "2A2" and on the other tube in grey a triangle then "2A3"

My Bugle Boy tubes have Made on Holland written on them, with the bugle boy logo and have triangle then "5E2" etched in grey


----------



## Wes S

M-83 said:


> The tubes with Amperex ECC88 written on them appear to be "215" in white, then in grey on one tube  a triangle then "2A2" and on the other tube in grey a triangle then "2A3"
> 
> My Bugle Boy tubes have Made on Holland written on them, with the bugle boy logo and have triangle then "5E2" etched in grey


They are not always legible, but the only to confirm the actual date and factory they were made in, is by the acid etched codes. 

They look like this.


----------



## M-83

Wes S said:


> They are not always legible, but the only to confirm the actual date and factory they were made in, is by the acid etched codes.
> 
> They look like this.


I can only see the triangle with 2A2 next to one, and 2A2 on the other.  I cannot see  any text where on your picture "GA7" is written.  This is for the ones with Amperex & ECC88 written on them.

As for the ones that are labelled on the packaging as Bugle Boy tubes, where triangle "2C2" is shown in your picture, it shows triangle "52E2" as far as I can see


----------



## TK16

M-83 said:


> @Wes S Sorry getting mixed up (not concentrating on what I'm clicking on)
> 
> I do have a pair of Bugle Boy tubes as per the link I shared above, but they are nowhere near as good as the Amperex ECC88 tubes.


I bought a pair from them years ago. Never bought from them again. Highway robbery in selling readily available elsewhere and cheaper. Got a quad of the D getter ECC88 for $70 as the owner didn't know they were D-getter.


----------



## Wes S (Sep 1, 2021)

M-83 said:


> I can only see the triangle with 2A2 next to one, and 2A2 on the other.  I cannot see  any text where on your picture "GA7" is written.  This is for the ones with Amperex & ECC88 written on them.
> 
> As for the ones that are labelled on the packaging as Bugle Boy tubes, where triangle "2C2" is shown in your picture, it shows triangle "52E2" as far as I can see


Got ya.  Sounds like both are from Herleen.  Bugle Boy labelled being produced a bit later than the Amperex labelled, but they should be the same tube.  So, just goes to show earlier is often better.


----------



## Rowethren (Sep 1, 2021)

Wes S said:


> The RFT is much more open sounding and transparent, with better extension on both ends.  The soundstage is absolutely massive with the RFT and there is more space and seperation, than with the CV455.  The detail with the RFT is tops as well, and so far the only tube I have heard that can compete and sounds similar is the Tungsram ECC82 Black Welded Plates.


Sigh... I guess more tubes it is then! At least these ones are much cheaper! 

Is that seller a reputable one? Do they do matched pairs?


----------



## Wes S (Sep 1, 2021)

Rowethren said:


> Sigh... I guess more tubes it is then! At least these ones are much cheaper!
> 
> Is that seller a reputable one? Do they do matched pairs?


Can't beat that price.  I do know this seller is a great and highly reliable one that ships quick, however I don't know if they are matched or if they are just all NOS testing like Langrex does it.  FYI, I would never share a link to a seller I would not buy from or recommend.


----------



## M-83

TK16 said:


> I bought a pair from them years ago. Never bought from them again. Highway robbery in selling readily available elsewhere and cheaper. Got a quad of the D getter ECC88 for $70 as the owner didn't know they were D-getter.


Wow okay thx for the heads-up!  FWIW I only purchased from there once lol.  I think I'm a little wiser (more experienced) these days  🤣


----------



## M-83

Wes S said:


> Got ya.  Sounds like both are from Herleen.  Bugle Boy labelled being produced a bit later than the Amperex labelled, but they should be the same tube.  So, just goes to show earlier is ways better.


Okay cool thx.  Yeah interesting then and yes looks like earlier = better!


----------



## jonathan c

Another alternative (wrinkle in this thread) to be tried out in Mjolnir II, then in WA2 / WA3. Very good experience with the name so far in the ECC81 domain…


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> Another alternative (wrinkle in this thread) to be tried out in Mjolnir II, then in WA2 / WA3. Very good experience with the name so far in the ECC81 domain…


If I still used that tube type, I would be all over those!


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> Another alternative (wrinkle in this thread) to be tried out in Mjolnir II, then in WA2 / WA3. Very good experience with the name so far in the ECC81 domain…


I have a matched pair of Tungsram 6922 tubes. 

They are excellent. Dan Clark recommended them to me 5 years or so ago as being great for EDM.


----------



## M-83

Initial impression of Amperex ECC88 Vs CV4033 is that the ECC88 is warmer, there is less space between the instruments, and it's not as detailed.

Niggling thought is that I may want to go back to the Brimar asap. 

Though I think that will mean giving up the lower end warmth of the Amperex. The Brimar is more neutral.

I'll have to give it more time than the hour I've had thus far.


----------



## JohnBal

JohnBal said:


> I have used these RFT rebranded for Tesla and love them. Right up near the top for me. The only thing with them is the top end is a hint softer than some others, which may or may not be a good thing for you depending on your system. But I found the bass on them to hit as hard as anything I have heard and offer a nice strong rumble. Super clear sounding midrange. Incredibly clear actually. I really like mine. Notice the build has the 2 large support rods on each side of the getter. Different than other RFT's I have seen. Got mine at Tubemonger years ago.





Wes S said:


> Well, it's been confirmed that another "Grail" level tube has been discovered!  For those with the itch to roll another tube to see how much more lifelike your system can sound, I highly recommend checking out the RFT ECC81 Folded Plates with Foil Getter.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/265288187061?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=4ab0ba5aacc64626a1dad27e629728e7&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=265288187061&itm=265288187061&pmt=1&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=RFT&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:2d1dc492-0b1f-11ec-8515-4a105610fa62|parentrq:a14ee37117b0aaf4c9540d5afff0f6ae|iid:1
> 
> This tube has insane bass texture, slam and control.  The mids are super transparent with quite possibly the best vocals I have ever heard, and the highs sparkle and soar.  The dynamics and punch are insane and you can feel the music.  The stage is massive and the sound seems to fill the entire room and the headphones just seem to disappear.  This tube has that magical effect of making it feel like you are there with the musicians at the venue.  The refinement and control this tube has over the entire frequency range is incredibly captivating.  I really can't believe how amazing this tube sounds, how readily available they are and how cheap they go for!  Compared to the Tungsram ECC82 Black Plate (my number 1), they are very close and similar in how they have slamming bass, super transparent mids and soaring highs, with a massive and highly immersive stage.  Where they differ is in the vocals with the RFT being a bit more forward and perhaps magical.  I am still trying to decide which tube I like more, but it is very close and I would be happy with either one.


Wes S your feelings on your RFT are eerily similar to my feelings on my different build RFT. The extended high end of yours piques my interest. I ordered a couple of the ones you have for my Lyr to compare with mine. This will be fun. Thanks for the tip!


----------



## Wes S

JohnBal said:


> Wes S your feelings on your RFT are eerily similar to my feelings on my different build RFT. The extended high end of yours piques my interest. I ordered a couple of the ones you have for my Lyr to compare with mine. This will be fun. Thanks for the tip!


Nice!  I look forward to hearing how they compare.  I have a couple more versions of the earlier RFT's on the way as well, and I am looking forward to comparing them.


----------



## M-83

M-83 said:


> Initial impression of Amperex ECC88 Vs CV4033 is that the ECC88 is warmer, there is less space between the instruments, and it's not as detailed.
> 
> Niggling thought is that I may want to go back to the Brimar asap.
> 
> ...


I've just rolled in Amperex Orange Globes.

Immediately I can tell an improvement in detail, and the music isn't as congested as the ECC88. 

I wonder if the ECC88 tubes are past their best or if the synergy for whatever reason isn't there with LCD-4. It sounded like there was clipping.

The Orange Globes sound great. This is the first time I've given them a proper listen and I'm glad I did. This might be my new favourite tube.

Need more time with it too get to know it more.

It's warm, transparent, bass is full, and there's a slight softness to it that is hard to describe. Very musical, vocals are gorgeous.  

I'm gonna give the Brimar CV4033s a rest and leave the Orange Globes in for a few weeks.


----------



## bcowen

M-83 said:


> I have a matched pair of Tungsram 6922 tubes.
> 
> They are excellent. Dan Clark recommended them to me 5 years or so ago as being great for EDM.


And I use a pair in my big rig DAC.  Never had any urge to swap them out as they play nicely there.


----------



## billerb1

Wes S said:


> Those from Herleen are my favorite in that family as well.  Killer tubes.


I was all in on Herleen for a long time back in the early rolling days, as was Sammy and TK if I remember correctly.  A pair of Philips Miniwatt E188CC's were my #1 for quite awhile.  Great sounding tubes.  Nothing like that Herleen midrange.


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> I was all in on Herleen for a long time back in the early rolling days, as was Sammy and TK if I remember correctly.  A pair of Philips Miniwatt E188CC's were my #1 for quite awhile.  Great sounding tubes.  Nothing like that Herleen midrange.


That raises the interesting (?) hypothetical scenario. Your _ideal_ tube would have:
~ the low bass of [ x ]
~ the mid bass of [ x ]
~ the mid range of [ x ]
~ the lower treble of [ x ]
~ the upper treble of [ x ]
~ the dynamic range of [ x ]
~ the ambience recovery of [ x ]
~ the imaging/soundstage of [ x ]…

~ Have at it!


----------



## Wes S (Sep 2, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> That raises the interesting (?) hypothetical scenario. Your _ideal_ tube would have:
> ~ the low bass of [ x ]
> ~ the mid bass of [ x ]
> ~ the mid range of [ x ]
> ...


x = RFT Folded Plate Foil Getter ECC81 or Tungsram Black Welded Plate ECC82

I would take either one of those.


----------



## G0rt

jonathan c said:


> That raises the interesting (?) hypothetical scenario. Your _ideal_ tube would have:
> ~ the low bass of [ x ]
> ~ the mid bass of [ x ]
> ~ the mid range of [ x ]
> ...


A tube/bottle/valve is a lot like a 30 band equalizer, compander, exciter with exactly one knob.

CYK (Choose Your Knob.)


----------



## Wes S

G0rt said:


> A tube/bottle/valve is a lot like a 30 band equalizer, compander, exciter with exactly one knob.
> 
> CYK (Choose Your Knob.)


Love it!  So true, and the special tubes (RFT or Tungsram) get all 30 bands just right for me.


----------



## Rowethren

Wes S said:


> Can't beat that price.  I do know this seller is a great and highly reliable one that ships quick, however I don't know if they are matched or if they are just all NOS testing like Langrex does it.  FYI, I would never share a link to a seller I would not buy from or recommend.


Funny you should mention Langrex, looks like they have some as well can't see the getters though... 
https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/ecc81-rft-german-nos-boxed-valve-tube/


----------



## Wes S

Rowethren said:


> Funny you should mention Langrex, looks like they have some as well can't see the getters though...
> https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/ecc81-rft-german-nos-boxed-valve-tube/


I can tell it's a version from the late 60's, and they most likely are the same as these.  With earlier being better I would pass on both of these.


----------



## Rowethren

Wes S said:


> I can tell it's a version from the late 60's, and they most likely are the same as these.  With earlier being better I would pass on both of these.


Thanks, I will steer clear of them then. I messaged the seller on eBay and they said they would try and find a matched pair for me so fingers crossed!


----------



## M-83

Today's track share. I love this.


----------



## cdahdude

Is 130 a good price for these? https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use
I wanna get to try these, but given how these are out of stock in a lot of places I'm not sure what a fair price would be.


----------



## M-83

cdahdude said:


> Is 130 a good price for these? https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use
> I wanna get to try these, but given how these are out of stock in a lot of places I'm not sure what a fair price would be.


Think it's been that price or within a couple of dollars for the past few months at least.

It's a great tube and imo worth the price.

HTH.


----------



## TK16

My LP took a dump today taking out a 7316. Bought a used one in the marketplace for cheap and going to send 1 that needs RMA and probably going to get the cap mod for that 1 eventually.


----------



## M-83

TK16 said:


> My LP took a dump today taking out a 7316. Bought a used one in the marketplace for cheap and going to send 1 that needs RMA and probably going to get the cap mod for that 1 eventually.


Ah man that's rough. On the bright side the cap mod will be great. Silver lining 😅


----------



## TK16

M-83 said:


> Ah man that's rough. On the bright side the cap mod will be great. Silver lining 😅


Shame I can't RMA a 1958 7316. That hurts more than the amp. 😀


----------



## M-83

TK16 said:


> Shame I can't RMA a 1958 7316. That hurts more than the amp. 😀


Yeah that's a shame. Reason no 1 why we need time travel.... 

ヽ(⌐■_■)ノ♪♬


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wonder whatever happened to @JoeyB ? He just disappeared from this thread one day lol. Has to be about 2 months. Hope all is ok with you bro!


----------



## Wes S

M-83 said:


> Yeah that's a shame. Reason no 1 why we need time travel....
> 
> ヽ(⌐■_■)ノ♪♬


. . . and backup tubes.    I would much rather time travel though, and my first jump would be to the Tungsram plant in Hungary 1954, followed by a jump to the RFT plant in Germany 1955.


----------



## cdahdude

Thanks guys. Also can you tell me if theres any adapter I need for these to connect to Schiit Mjolnir 2?


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Wonder whatever happened to @JoeyB ? He just disappeared from this thread one day lol. Has to be about 2 months. Hope all is ok with you bro!


Me too, he is a Footscraying t-shirter….


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> . . . and backup tubes.    I would much rather time travel though, and my first jump would be to the Tungsram plant in Hungary 1954, followed by a jump to the RFT plant in Germany 1955.


…and in the meantime, see West Germany defeat (unbelievably) Hungary (the Mighty Magyars) in the 1954 FIFA final..


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> . . . and backup tubes.    I would much rather time travel though, and my first jump would be to the Tungsram plant in Hungary 1954, followed by a jump to the RFT plant in Germany 1955.


….then Eindhoven…Heerlen….Footscray!!!…


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Yeah that's a shame. Reason no 1 why we need time travel....
> 
> ヽ(⌐■_■)ノ♪♬


…to get to a pre-GE state of the world…


----------



## jonathan c

cdahdude said:


> Is 130 a good price for these? https://pulsetubestore.com/products...4-12at7-factory-tested-plug-play-ready-to-use
> I wanna get to try these, but given how these are out of stock in a lot of places I'm not sure what a fair price would be.


Yes it is. It has been 130-135 for a number of months. A year ago, it was 120-125…


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Yeah that's a shame. Reason no 1 why we need time travel....


With the knowledge of today, to go back and mass purchase at ‘pence to the pound’ everyone’s future holy grail tubes…👹…


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> With the knowledge of today, to go back and mass purchase at ‘pence to the pound’ everyone’s future holy grail tubes…👹…


Yup haha 😆


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> ….then Eindhoven…Heerlen….Footscray!!!…


World tour! The Footscray factory location is only about an hour from where I live.


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> . . . and backup tubes.    I would much rather time travel though, and my first jump would be to the Tungsram plant in Hungary 1954, followed by a jump to the RFT plant in Germany 1955.


I'd head back to around 1939 and buy a warehouse full of Western Electric 300B's.  Fast forward a few years and fill another warehouse with WE 421A's.  Then to 1945 where I'd vaporize all the GE representatives before they could ruin purchase the KenRad operation. From there to Russia in the 1950's and buy all the Melz 1578's. And then back to the present where I'd sell 15k pairs of those 300B's, buy my own island, and worry about which $10k pair of interconnects was totally best.


----------



## Guidostrunk

cdahdude said:


> Thanks guys. Also can you tell me if theres any adapter I need for these to connect to Schiit Mjolnir 2?


You'll  need these.
https://pulsetubestore.com/products...uction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Me too, he is a Footscraying t-shirter….


I wear mine everywhere bro. Still waiting for a total stranger to ask me what it means lol


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> I wear mine everywhere bro. Still waiting for a total stranger to ask me what it means lol


ROFL!  I only wear mine while listening because I have just one backup.  Somehow it even makes Tung Sols sound better.  Weird, huh?


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> ROFL!  I only wear mine while listening because I have just one backup.  Somehow it even makes Tung Sols sound better.  Weird, huh?


😂😂😂


----------



## M-83

Shame I missed out on the t-shirt run.

Perhaps I should consider doing something similar.


----------



## M-83

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones...urce=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

🤦‍♂️😱


----------



## Rowethren

That is a bargain price for some classic GE magic!


----------



## Wes S (Sep 3, 2021)

Guys this RFT ECC81 Folded Plate is freaking legit!  The more time I spend listening, the more I am amazed at how balanced, dynamic and transparent it sounds.  Then there's the soundstage and it so spacious the headphones disappear.   The power and control this tube has is killer.  Detail with this tube and the way it can produce nuance is as good as it gets.  Forget about the Tungsram's, RFT has taken the throne.


----------



## Rowethren (Sep 3, 2021)

Wes S said:


> Guys this RFT ECC81 Folded Plate is freaking legit!  The more time I spend listening, the more I am amazed at how balanced, dynamic and transparent it sounds.  Then there's the soundstage and it so spacious the headphones disappear.   The power and control this tube has is killer.  Detail with this tube and the way it can produce nuance is as good as it gets.  Forget about the Tungsram's, RFT has taken the throne.


Well that was the nail in the coffin, ordered a pair... If they are as good as you say you can't really go wrong for £37.42 delivered.

I just hope I don't have issues with them like I did with Langrex, I always feel a bit iffy about buying tubes that don't list measurements.


----------



## G0rt

Wes S said:


> Guys this RFT ECC81 Folded Plate is freaking legit!  The more time I spend listening, the more I am amazed at how balanced, dynamic and transparent it sounds.  Then there's the soundstage and it so spacious the headphones disappear.   The power and control this tube has is killer.  Detail with this tube and the way it can produce nuance is as good as it gets.  Forget about the Tungsram's, RFT has taken the throne.


Dammit. Schiit. Schiit. Schiit.


----------



## Wes S (Sep 3, 2021)

Another thing worth mentioning about the RFT, is the imaging has laser precision and there is a lot of air and space/seperation around each instrument.  You can really key in on one instrument at a time, and hear little nuances around each one as if you were in the venue with them.  With most tubes it always seems like some instruments or vocals tend to get overshadowed and lost in the mix a bit, and with the RFT everything has it's own space and sounds so right and lifelike.  Combining that imaging and seperation with the lifelike tonality and timbre, and with the massive stage expansion, the headphones disappear and sounds just explode out of nowhere all around my head and way outside the cups of my Verite Closed.  This is the most open my closed backs have ever sounded.  The 3Dness is in full effect and it's a highly immersive experience.  This is the kind of tube, tube rollers dream of finding.


----------



## Rowethren

Probably helps that the VCs really are something special. They are my only pair of headphones now as none of the others were comparable so I sold them. Had them for almost 2 years now and I don't regret it for a minute.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Another thing worth mentioning about the RFT, is the imaging has laser precision and there is a lot of air and space/seperation around each instrument.  You can really key in on one instrument at a time, and hear little nuances around each one as if you were in the venue with them.  With most tubes it always seems like some instruments or vocals tend to get overshadowed and lost in the mix a bit, and with the RFT everything has it's own space and sounds so right and lifelike.  Combining that imaging and seperation with the lifelike tonality and timbre, and with the massive stage expansion, the headphones disappear and sounds just explode out of nowhere all around my head and way outside the cups of my Verite Closed.  This is the most open my closed backs have ever sounded.  The 3Dness is in full effect and it's a highly immersive experience.  This is the kind of tube, tube rollers dream of finding.


You covered everything that I'm hearing bro! 
To add...... the soundstage on these is like no other tube. Most tubes have a wall at some point regardless of how big the projection is. These tubes really give you that endless distance away from your head. The reverberation from the bass and impact feels like it's coming from the room. 
Vocals? Sheesh! The size , depth and texture is haunting. Really digs into the soul if you believe you have one 😂

Fantastic find Wes! What a hidden gem bro!


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> You covered everything that I'm hearing bro!
> To add...... the soundstage on these is like no other tube. Most tubes have a wall at some point regardless of how big the projection is. These tubes really give you that endless distance away from your head. The reverberation from the bass and impact feels like it's coming from the room.
> Vocals? Sheesh! The size , depth and texture is haunting. Really digs into the soul if you believe you have one 😂
> 
> Fantastic find Wes! What a hidden gem bro!


Yes sir!


----------



## M-83

Out of interest, has anyone compared MJ2 with a Violectric V281 whist using Schiit Gumby as DAC?


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Out of interest, has anyone compared MJ2 with a Violectric V281 whist using Schiit Gumby as DAC?


Not exactly. The closest that I have come to this comparison is: Vioelectric V280 vs Mjolnir II (capmod) with EVO Mystique DAC (NOS R2R). The V280 (a ‘stripped’ V281: amp circuitry is identical) is: slightly warm of neutral, a bit fuller in the bass.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> I'd head back to around 1939 and buy a warehouse full of Western Electric 300B's.  Fast forward a few years and fill another warehouse with WE 421A's.  Then to 1945 where I'd vaporize all the GE representatives before they could ruin purchase the KenRad operation. From there to Russia in the 1950's and buy all the Melz 1578's. And then back to the present where I'd sell 15k pairs of those 300B's, buy my own island, and worry about which $10k pair of interconnects was totally best.


Make sure the island has: electricity or generators! Cape Cowen…a nice ring to it…


----------



## jonathan c

A diversion from RFT adulation (I will investigate…). On the E88CC side of things:


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> Not exactly. The closest that I have come to this comparison is: Vioelectric V280 vs Mjolnir II (capmod) with EVO Mystique DAC (NOS R2R). The V280 (a ‘stripped’ V281: amp circuitry is identical) is: slightly warm of neutral, a bit fuller in the bass.


Thanks. Now I have LCD-4 I may consider other amplification and R2R dac options that may have greater synergy.

I've always been interested in a V281. 

Maybe now is the time to consider one.


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Thanks. Now I have LCD-4 I may consider other amplification and R2R dac options that may have greater synergy.
> 
> I've always been interested in a V281.
> 
> Maybe now is the time to consider one.


The V281 is discontinued. For that, you will have to access the ‘secondary’ market. The V280 is in its Final Edition (precursor to discontinuation).


----------



## jonathan c

Rowethren said:


> That is a bargain price for some classic GE magic!


Classic GE magic….how to make good sound disappear…unlike Rocky & Bullwinkle, that trick _always_ works…


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> I wear mine everywhere bro. Still waiting for a total stranger to ask me what it means lol


I’m waiting for a stranger to ask whether the tubes have / had flying leads 😜🤣…


----------



## billerb1

jonathan c said:


> I’m waiting for a stranger to ask whether the tubes have / had flying leads 😜🤣…


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> The V281 is discontinued. For that, you will have to access the ‘secondary’ market. The V280 is in its Final Edition (precursor to discontinuation).


Yeah I saw. Happy to consider preloved. I think worth exploring over V280. 

Seems like some pre-owned V280 have balanced out and others don't. I guess different specs over the years.


----------



## M-83

billerb1 said:


>



I love that film


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> I’m waiting for a stranger to ask whether the tubes have / had flying leads 😜🤣…


😂😂😂


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


>



That's the way I feel like when I read about new holy grails here.😂
Sometimes daily HG's.


----------



## M-83

TK16 said:


> That's the way I feel like when I read about new holy grails here.😂
> Sometimes daily HG's.


😜🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## M-83

Well hot damn I loved this track even more on LCD-4!!!


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> That's the way I feel like when I read about new holy grails here.😂
> Sometimes daily HG's.


They are not holy grails…they are hourly grails…🤪😜😆😂🤔😒😢😭…


----------



## TK16

jonathan c said:


> They are not holy grails…they are hourly grails…🤪😜😆😂🤔😒😢😭…


6pm eastern expect a new HG by that time guys.


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> A diversion from RFT adulation (I will investigate…). On the E88CC side of things:


Interested to hear your thoughts. I have a pair boxed up that I've not used in ages.


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> Not exactly. The closest that I have come to this comparison is: Vioelectric V280 vs Mjolnir II (capmod) with EVO Mystique DAC (NOS R2R). The V280 (a ‘stripped’ V281: amp circuitry is identical) is: slightly warm of neutral, a bit fuller in the bass.


Also might consider Bryston BHA-1. Audeze claim excellent synergy with and lots of power for LCD-4.


----------



## M-83

Absolutely gorgeous track by Slowdive:


----------



## bcowen

M-83 said:


> https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones...urce=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
> 
> 🤦‍♂️😱


And how does the poster know that Woo paid $9.60 for the tube?  That could have been written on the box 30 or 40 years ago.  I have a couple RCA 845's with $4.95 on the boxes....but I paid a _lot_ more than that for them.


----------



## M-83

bcowen said:


> And how does the poster know that Woo paid $9.60 for the tube?  That could have been written on the box 30 or 40 years ago.  I have a couple RCA 845's with $4.95 on the boxes....but I paid a _lot_ more than that for them.


Yeah that's a good point


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> You covered everything that I'm hearing bro!
> To add...... the soundstage on these is like no other tube. Most tubes have a wall at some point regardless of how big the projection is. These tubes really give you that endless distance away from your head. The reverberation from the bass and impact feels like it's coming from the room.
> Vocals? Sheesh! The size , depth and texture is haunting. *Really digs into the soul if you believe you have one* 😂


Crap.  Guess I'll have to sit this one out.


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Make sure the island has: electricity or generators! Cape Cowen…a nice ring to it…


I'd planned on just using batteries.  Since it would be my own island, I could dig a hole and bury them.  No EPA.  And think how much I'll save on boutique power cords!


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> 6pm eastern expect a new HG by that time guys.


Since it's past 6pm Eastern, how about some Holy Crap instead?    

This is the nastiest tube I've heard in 25+ years of tube rolling.  It doesn't just suck, it vacuums the entire universe.


----------



## bcowen (Sep 3, 2021)

And as I was searching for more Holy Craps, I ran across this:





Undisputable crap, right?  But upon rolling it over, looky here:





Hmmmmm.....it's been sitting in a box for who knows how long.  Probably came in a tube lot I purchased at some point, and I never even bothered pulling it out of the box.  Maybe my _search-for-crap_ expedition uncovered something...._not_ crappy? I've never seen a GE-*made* tube with Great Britain printed on it, or an etched alpha/numeric code (only dots, and no dots on this). Anybody have any clue on this code? I suppose I could listen to it, but I'd have to remove the GE logo first or risk permanent damage to my reputation.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> And as I was searching for more Holy Craps, I ran across this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The k61 SG Blackburn are better but far from my favorites.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Since it's past 6pm Eastern, how about some Holy Crap instead?
> 
> This is the nastiest tube I've heard in 25+ years of tube rolling.  It doesn't just suck, it vacuums the entire universe.


Why isn’t it in pieces?


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Why isn’t it in pieces?


It was hidden under the Philips ECG's.  My crap tube stash isn't neatly organized because, well, why?  

Figured I'd hold onto the Philips for another several years and then sell them for $100 each.  Perhaps I should 'borrow' some text from BangyBang and sell them for $500/pair?


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> Crap.  Guess I'll have to sit this one out.


😂😂😂


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Well hot damn I loved this track even more on LCD-4!!!



I did not know that ‘hot damn’ was an expression in the U.K….


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> It was hidden under the Philips ECG's.  My crap tube stash isn't neatly organized because, well, why?
> 
> Figured I'd hold onto the Philips for another several years and then sell them for $100 each.  Perhaps I should 'borrow' some text from BangyBang and sell them for $500/pair?


Philips’s ECG’s are’s the’s best’s tubes’s ever’s…..send’s $$$$’s ASAP’s…..


----------



## jonathan c (Sep 3, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> A diversion from RFT adulation (I will investigate…). On the E88CC side of things:


~ Brief update on Tungsram E88CC in Ksorolnir II: Very nice overall; even tonal balance; great dimensionality and body/heft; bass is sinewy; midrange is sculpted; treble is “open-aire”; exciting dynamic range; sounds more like a ECC81. 
~ Killer kombo:  Ksorolnir II  / Tungsram / Gjallarhorn JM….


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> And as I was searching for more Holy Craps, I ran across this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Or silkscreen in a “C”…


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> I did not know that ‘hot damn’ was an expression in the U.K….


Lol it's not used widely as far as I'm aware. I would have used another expression but head-fi has a habit of changing certain colloquials into something else entirely or at the very least they get replaced with asterisks...


----------



## G0rt

Guidostrunk said:


> 😂😂😂


I don't think I have any 'bad' tubes, maybe a few that are just misunderstood...


----------



## Guidostrunk

G0rt said:


> I don't think I have any 'bad' tubes, maybe a few that are just misunderstood...


That's hilarious 😆


----------



## bcowen

G0rt said:


> I don't think I have any 'bad' tubes, maybe a few that are just misunderstood...


ROFL!!!!


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> That's hilarious 😆


You get your Langrex tubes yet? I haven`t and given up on them.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> You get your Langrex tubes yet? I haven`t and given up on them.


I've never had any problems with Langrex.  Honestly.  I've had one order that took way longer than usual to get here but it finally did, and the other orders have arrived in about 2.5 weeks pretty consistently.  Haven't had any issues with the tubes either, and I've purchased probably a couple dozen different tubes from them over the past 4 or 5 years.  Sorry to hear about the problems you're having.  Shipments get lost, tubes may not measure up, but I guess what's most worrisome to me from what you're experiencing is the lack of response and resolution.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> I've never had any problems with Langrex.  Honestly.  I've had one order that took way longer than usual to get here but it finally did, and the other orders have arrived in about 2.5 weeks pretty consistently.  Haven't had any issues with the tubes either, and I've purchased probably a couple dozen different tubes from them over the past 4 or 5 years.  Sorry to hear about the problems you're having.  Shipments get lost, tubes may not measure up, but I guess what's most worrisome to me from what you're experiencing is the lack of response and resolution.


Bully for you. 😉
I didn't toss the old one like they said otherwise I wouldn't have a pair. I had good experiences with them in the past myself.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> You get your Langrex tubes yet? I haven`t and given up on them.


No. I got refunded last week. I'm done ordering from there. Lol


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> No. I got refunded last week. I'm done ordering from there. Lol


You probably better off, 5 out of the 6 tubes I got from pulsetubestore.com were over NOS testing and the 6th had 1 very strong triode and the other was at least way over minimum.


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> No. I got refunded last week. I'm done ordering from there. Lol


I may be too based on what you and TK have experienced.  I've been lucky in not having any problems, but if this is how they (don't) respond when there_ *is*_ a problem, then it's time to go elsewhere.

I've ordered a couple times from Billington, and they have a good selection of Euro tubes at (roughly) similar prices to Langrex.  But I've not had a problem for them to resolve either, so don't know how they respond if/when one occurs.

https://web211.secure-secure.co.uk/tube-and-valve-electronics.co.uk/default2.asp


----------



## Wes S

Parting shot as my work here is done.  Enjoy the Holy Grails!


----------



## TK16

@bcowen any positive thoughts on this gem?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-JG-581...3-1624-4b90-aea0-01d60fb2e300&redirect=mobile


----------



## TK16

Got my very cheap 7316 from this seller, strong and only slightly microphonic in my MJ2. Excellent seller.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-73...e-e8cc-41b0-90df-56ad03f06b7f&redirect=mobile


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Parting shot as my work here is done.  Enjoy the Holy Grails!


Have a great weekend Wes, and we'll look forward to next week.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Have a great weekend Wes, and we'll look forward to next week.


Today? 😆


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> @bcowen any positive thoughts on this gem?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-JG-581...3-1624-4b90-aea0-01d60fb2e300&redirect=mobile


Does "not necessarily negative thoughts" count?    Honestly, have no idea.  1953?  It's possible they were still using a KenRad design and hadn't costed it to death yet.  Too expensive to risk it for me though.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Got my very cheap 7316 from this seller, strong and only slightly microphonic in my MJ2. Excellent seller.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-73...e-e8cc-41b0-90df-56ad03f06b7f&redirect=mobile


Sweet!


----------



## M-83 (Sep 4, 2021)

I've had good experience with www.watfordvalves.com in the past but haven't ordered from there in a while.

From memory you get good assistance even if their replies aren't particularly 'wordy'.

A solid alternative to Langrex.


----------



## jonathan c

jonathan c said:


> ~ Brief update on Tungsram E88CC in Ksorolnir II: Very nice overall; even tonal balance; great dimensionality and body/heft; bass is sinewy; midrange is sculpted; treble is “open-aire”; exciting dynamic range; sounds more like a ECC81.
> ~ Killer kombo:  Ksorolnir II  / Tungsram / Gjallarhorn JM….


[Short digression…]  Also does one hell of a job in the Valhalla II with Novosibirsk 6N6Ps…


----------



## billerb1

Avatar shows results of a couple of months of comparing my longtime #1's, the Telefunken ECC801S's, and the Brimar Footscary CV455's.  The CV455's just deliver more music per square inch than the Teles.  There is a certain sweetness to the Teles tone/timbre on my rig that the CV455's can't duplicate but at the end of the day the CV455's just are more impactful and engaging to me.  I feel like I'm in with the musicians with the 455's instead of listening from the front row with the Telefunkens.  Really close contest but I am now finally convinced the CV455's rule.  Waiting on the RFT ECC81's though...


----------



## M-83

Do you guys leave your MJ2 vol pot at a desired level when you switch it off, so it's ready for the next session?


----------



## TK16

billerb1 said:


> Avatar shows results of a couple of months of comparing my longtime #1's, the Telefunken ECC801S's, and the Brimar Footscary CV455's.  The CV455's just deliver more music per square inch than the Teles.  There is a certain sweetness to the Teles tone/timbre on my rig that the CV455's can't duplicate but at the end of the day the CV455's just are more impactful and engaging to me.  I feel like I'm in with the musicians with the 455's instead of listening from the front row with the Telefunkens.  Really close contest but I am now finally convinced the CV455's rule.  Waiting on the RFT ECC81's though...


Flip flopper with all due respect. 😉


----------



## M-83

Just ordered one of these for LCD-4

https://www.hifisound.co.uk/headpho...ories-c101/cpc-1-clear-protective-cover-p2088


----------



## billerb1

TK16 said:


> Flip flopper with all due respect. 😉


Guilty as charged.  Pretty sure my loyalty to the Teles was getting in the way.  Will always have a special place in my heart for the Telefunkens but
don't think I'll be flopping back on the 455's being the better tube.  Spent a lot of time with both and the longer I listened the more obvious the answer became.


----------



## Guidostrunk

M-83 said:


> Do you guys leave your MJ2 vol pot at a desired level when you switch it off, so it's ready for the next session?


I never turn mine off lol. The warm up time to get to optimal running temp +/-108°(heat gun temp on top logo) just takes way too long. Roughly 2+ hours.


----------



## Guidostrunk

🤯 $500 shipped for MJ2.
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...summer-clearance-6922-amp-tube-edition.11380/


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Do you guys leave your MJ2 vol pot at a desired level when you switch it off, so it's ready for the next session?


No


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> Flip flopper with all due respect. 😉


A tube double agent…


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> No


Cool. I don't either but last night I hit a sweet spot and thought it would be good to replicate easily.


----------



## M-83

Totally gorgeous track. Gets me misty eyed every time I hear it.


----------



## bcowen (Sep 6, 2021)

M-83 said:


> Totally gorgeous track. Gets me misty eyed every time I hear it.



Nice!

This one is still my favorite.  Blame @UntilThen .  (the music is OK too).


----------



## M-83

bcowen said:


> Nice!
> 
> This one is still my favorite.  Blame @UntilThen .  (the music is OK too).



Lol certainly an excellent music video 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## UntilThen

bcowen said:


> This one is still my favorite. Blame @UntilThen . (the music is OK too).



I see the hit count has gone up. Have you put it on endless repeats. Join them. It's good exercise for you.


----------



## bcowen

UntilThen said:


> I see the hit count has gone up. Have you put it on endless repeats. *Join them*. It's good exercise for you.


The visualization of _that _is likely appreciated by nobody.


----------



## UntilThen

bcowen said:


> The visualization of _that _is likely appreciated by nobody.



It will damaged Odyssey !!!


----------



## jonathan c

jonathan c said:


> A tube double agent…


…the name’s b…billerb…licence to roll…


----------



## billerb1 (Sep 6, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> …the name’s b…billerb…licence to roll…


Great, my cover's blown.  I'm a dead man.
On the other hand I quite enjoyed you quoting your own quote.  I've wanted to do that so
many times and just haven't had the balls.  If I wasn''t going to be dead soon, I'd thank you
for the courage to finally do it myself.


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> Great, my cover's blown.  I'm a dead man.
> On the other hand I quite enjoyed you quoting your own quote.  I've wanted to do that so
> many times and just haven't had the balls.  If I wasn''t going to be dead soon, I'd thank you
> for the courage to finally do it myself.


As Stephen Crane might put it, it’s time for your ‘Thread Badge of Courage’….


----------



## M-83

billerb1 said:


> Great, my cover's blown. I'm a dead man.


Better than a dead tube


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Not Better than a dead GE tube


FTFY…[Reg. TM; © bcowen: 2021]


----------



## busseysound

I just got in my CV455's but no adapter here yet.  It's coming from China and who knows how long that will take.  Can anyone recommend someplace to get an adapter for my MJ2 in the states?


----------



## UntilThen

busseysound said:


> I just got in my CV455's but no adapter here yet.  It's coming from China and who knows how long that will take.  Can anyone recommend someplace to get an adapter for my MJ2 in the states?



I order this adapter on the 18th Aug and it arrived on the 6th Sep. Not too bad.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/201357485488


----------



## Guidostrunk

busseysound said:


> I just got in my CV455's but no adapter here yet.  It's coming from China and who knows how long that will take.  Can anyone recommend someplace to get an adapter for my MJ2 in the states?


Less than 7 days! 
https://pulsetubestore.com/products...uction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china


----------



## M-83

In case anyone is interested in Freya S...


Post in thread 'Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up'
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...most-improbable-start-up.701900/post-16549002


----------



## busseysound

Guidostrunk said:


> Less than 7 days!
> https://pulsetubestore.com/products/12axx-to-ecc88-adapter-plug-play-novib-©-1960s-nos-british-mcmurdo-phenolic-socket-on-top-plus-vibration-reduction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china


Ordered - Thanks!


----------



## M-83

Enjoy this and chill out. Great track for headphones. A favourite of mine.


----------



## bcowen

M-83 said:


> In case anyone is interested in Freya S...
> 
> 
> Post in thread 'Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up'
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...most-improbable-start-up.701900/post-16549002


It is blasphemous to post such tubeless-ness in this thread.  You have to send each of us one of your favorite tubes to make amends.


----------



## jonathan c

Heads up…if interested, my Mjolnir II is in the adverts.


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Heads up…if interested, my Mjolnir II is in the adverts.


Oh wow. You literally have the only other modded MJ2 in existence.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> It is blasphemous to post such tubeless-ness in this thread.  You have to send each of us one of your favorite tubes to make amends.


What is the greater tube blasphemy…posting the above or reading the above…?🤔🤪😒…


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Oh wow. You literally have the only other modded MJ2 in existence.


I know…there is a space limit to how many hpa I can keep in my office/study. Also, the Linear Tube Audio MZ3, to my brain/ears, is a sonic extrapolation of the Ksorolnir II…


----------



## UntilThen

jonathan c said:


> Heads up…if interested, my Mjolnir II is in the adverts.



Heads up, Odyssey for sale.


----------



## M-83

bcowen said:


> It is blasphemous to post such tubeless-ness in this thread.  You have to send each of us one of your favorite tubes to make amends.


Lol - to be honest I saw the post, and in a moment of lazy madness shared it here without thinking that it was solid state.  I assumed it was the tube variant of Freya.

Hope you can let me off, otherwise I'd have to commit further blasphemous acts and send everyone my "favourite" (cheap) GE tube


----------



## M-83

UntilThen said:


> Heads up, Odyssey for sale.


Oh how come you're selling?  You have not had it long have you?


----------



## UntilThen

M-83 said:


> Oh how come you're selling?  You have not had it long have you?



I'm selling Odyssey stickers.


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Oh how come you're selling?  You have not had it long have you?


There is a space limit in my home study/office for the number of hpa - currently seven, none of which are ‘desktop’ size. Also, the Linear Tube Audio MZ3 - four weeks _chez moi_ - despite being all tube (12AT7 / 6SN7) is a sonic _extrapolation_ of the ‘Ksorolnir’ (cap modified MJ-II). The MZ3 thus stays. Other hpa will follow the MJ-II…


----------



## jonathan c

UntilThen said:


> I'm selling Odyssey stickers.


BOGO: with Iliad sticker?…


----------



## M-83

This is sublime. @Wes S Spiritualized have a new record coming next year


----------



## ksorota

Guidostrunk said:


> Oh wow. You literally have the only other modded MJ2 in existence.


possibly a third one to be born soon!


----------



## Rowethren

ksorota said:


> possibly a third one to be born soon!


If you didn't live in the USA I would be asking to be the 4th!


----------



## M-83 (Sep 9, 2021)

Classic


----------



## bcowen

M-83 said:


> Lol - to be honest I saw the post, and in a moment of lazy madness shared it here without thinking that it was solid state.  I assumed it was the tube variant of Freya.
> 
> Hope you can let me off, otherwise I'd have to commit further blasphemous acts and send everyone my "favourite" (cheap) GE tube


 No worries, everyone is entitled to one mulligan. Come to think of it, @UntilThen claims a mulligan on every hole. Sometimes twice.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> No worries, everyone is entitled to one mulligan. Come to think of it, @UntilThen claims a mulligan on every hole. Sometimes twice.


…and on putts?…😅


----------



## UntilThen

bcowen said:


> No worries, everyone is entitled to one mulligan. Come to think of it, @UntilThen claims a mulligan on every hole. Sometimes twice.



Don't you dare trivialize my hole in one. It's cutting edge precision and total calmness.


----------



## ksorota

Rowethren said:


> If you didn't live in the USA I would be asking to be the 4th!



I know where you can get one, pre -made😉


----------



## jonathan c

UntilThen said:


> Don't you dare trivialize my hole in _*three*_. It's cutting edge precision and total calmness.


FTFY…[Reg. TM; © bcowen: 2021]


----------



## Homrsimson

Hi all, I just sold a mjolnir 2 that had been working fine prior to shipping but the buyer reports the power switch is loose (ie won’t toggle up or down). Has anybody else had this problem? I’m wondering if it got jarred loose in shipping and if there’s a relatively easy fix, or if it’s something Schiit would have to repair. Thanks to any insights


----------



## ksorota

The switch itself would be easy to source and replace. Any repair ship could do it, or person who felt comfortable opening it up. Those switches seem to break all the time, my wa7 showed up with the same issue.


----------



## Homrsimson

ksorota said:


> The switch itself would be easy to source and replace. Any repair ship could do it, or person who felt comfortable opening it up. Those switches seem to break all the time, my wa7 showed up with the same issue.


Thanks, yeah he sent me a photo and the switch won’t stay up or down, it’s loose. How did you fix on your wa7?
 If anyone has fixed this on their own with the Mjolnir 2, would appreciate any insights into the difficulty etc., or whether a repair shop should do the work.


----------



## TK16

Got me cheap used LP delivered and the MJ2 is relegated to being a preamp. 55 ECC82 Hamburgs in the LP and Hamburg 6201 PW 59's in the 
MJ2.


----------



## Rowethren

My RFT Folded Plate Foil Getter ECC81 arrived and they look absolutely mint! Out of interest do you know how you work out the dates for these?


----------



## Wes S (Sep 13, 2021)

Rowethren said:


> My RFT Folded Plate Foil Getter ECC81 arrived and they look absolutely mint! Out of interest do you know how you work out the dates for these?


Nice!  No idea on the exact date for the RFT'S newer than 58', so I would guess somewhere between 59'-64'.  RFT'S from 58' and older all have the date printed on them, but after 58' it's a guess.

Get ready for some soundstage expansion, details galore and impact you can feel. . .


----------



## Rowethren

Wes S said:


> Nice!  No idea on the exact date for the RFT'S newer than 58', so I would guess somewhere between 59'-64'.  RFT'S from 58' and older all have the date printed on them, but after 58' it's a guess.
> 
> Get ready for some soundstage expansion, details galore and impact you can feel. . .



Sounds like fun! They have been burning in all day so might give them a bit of a listen later this afternoon.


----------



## Rowethren

One thing I have noticed is they have little penis tips which is quite amusing


----------



## jonathan c

Rowethren said:


> One thing I have noticed is they have little penis tips which is quite amusing


Why would you notice?…🤨…


----------



## Rowethren

jonathan c said:


> Why would you notice?…🤨…


Because I am a strange person?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Rowethren said:


> Because I am a strange person?


😂😂😂


----------



## M-83

Just ordered a Burson Conductor 3 Reference dac / amp to compare against Gumby and MJ2 with LCD-4. 

I've only room for one dac/amp rig and I'll keep the one I prefer.


----------



## G0rt

It was half past September when the red phone rang. - H. Ellison

Brimar CV455's & RFT ECC81's both arrived today! 😁


----------



## bcowen

Rowethren said:


> My RFT Folded Plate Foil Getter ECC81 arrived and they look absolutely mint! Out of interest do you know how you work out the dates for these?


Sweet!  And awesome pics too.


----------



## bcowen

G0rt said:


> It was half past September when the red phone rang. - H. Ellison
> 
> Brimar CV455's & RFT ECC81's both arrived today! 😁


Nice!  Be interested in your impressions when you get a chance to listen to them.  

I shamefully ordered some RFT ECC82's because my amp doesn't like ECC81's, and the RFT ECC82's I have now look to be much later production (and I like old stuff better ).


----------



## G0rt

bcowen said:


> Nice!  Be interested in your impressions when you get a chance to listen to them.
> 
> I shamefully ordered some RFT ECC82's because my amp doesn't like ECC81's, and the RFT ECC82's I have now look to be much later production (and I like old stuff better ).


Both pairs are warming up now. It's going to be a listeny week! 😊


----------



## jonathan c

G0rt said:


> It was half past September when the red phone rang. - H. Ellison
> 
> Brimar CV455's & RFT ECC81's both arrived today! 😁


News quiz on 13-SEP-2071: where were you when G0rt got his Footscrays and Rifts?…


----------



## UntilThen

jonathan c said:


> News quiz on 13-SEP-2071: where were you when G0rt got his Footscrays and Rifts?…



I was with the mothership, the Starship Enterprise. Did you see that solo Brimar there with red lettering? It's a Headscray.


----------



## Guidostrunk

UntilThen said:


> I was with the mothership, the Starship Enterprise. Did you see that solo Brimar there with red lettering? It's a Headscray.


What a sweet rig! Can only imagine how great that sounds!


----------



## UntilThen

Guidostrunk said:


> What a sweet rig! Can only imagine how great that sounds!



Thank you. Sounds just like the mothership.


----------



## G0rt

Tripping the Rifts since o'dark 30 and dayum. 

Got them in MJ2 right now, and I swear when I first plugged in, I was looking over my shoulder, wondering if I'd somehow triggered the HTS.

And that's with GH1/L, which aren't exactly known for huge staging. On hi-gain, too. QUIET.

Played some with the Footsies in VH2 as well, also fabulous, but differently so.


----------



## G0rt

Triple mica, tall black plates, D getter 5965's.

What are the chances that these won't completely suck?


----------



## Guidostrunk

G0rt said:


> Triple mica, tall black plates, D getter 5965's.
> 
> What are the chances that these won't completely suck?


I was considering those tubes in the past but I believe the ma on them is 450 which may be too much for the MJ2. I think 400 is max.


----------



## G0rt

Guidostrunk said:


> I was considering those tubes in the past but I believe the ma on them is 450 which may be too much for the MJ2. I think 400 is max.


Ouch. Yup.  Should work ok in Valhalla2, though.  I've used 6sn7's in there. 🤗


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> I was considering those tubes in the past but I believe the ma on them is 450 which may be too much for the MJ2. I think 400 is max.


The Mjolnir II stock tubes are of the 6922 (or equivalent) type: the ‘mA’ per tube is 300.


----------



## G0rt

jonathan c said:


> The Mjolnir II stock tubes are of the 6922 (or equivalent) type: the ‘mA’ per tube is 300.


There's a post on the MJ2 tube rolling thread, #5, that refers to feedback from Nick (@schiit) that 415 mils is the max recommended.

I've considered making adapters that expose the filaments, so that I could power them from my big DC supply...


----------



## jonathan c

G0rt said:


> There's a post on the MJ2 tube rolling thread, #5, that refers to feedback from Nick (@schiit) that 415 mils is the max recommended.
> 
> I've considered making adapters that expose the filaments, so that I could power them from my big DC supply...


…will look like Chevy Chase house in Christmas Vacation?…


----------



## G0rt

jonathan c said:


> …will look like Chevy Chase house in Christmas Vacation?…


Let us truly hope not. I have a 30 amp capable variable PS nearby, a fused distribution panel, Powerpoles aplenty...


----------



## M-83

I'm letting Gumby and MJ2 have a break whilst I spend some time getting to know my Burson Conductor 3 Reference which arrived today.

I'll keep my favourite and let the other go.


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> I'm letting Gumby and MJ2 have a break whilst I spend some time getting to know my Burson Conductor 3 Reference which arrived today.
> 
> I'll keep my favourite and let the other go.


…after all, the gear must earn its keep…you are not running a charity…🤨…🎼🎶…


----------



## busseysound

I'm just getting to know my MJ2 and Gumby (had about 3 weeks).  Got my adapters in earlier in the week, and trying various tubes now.  CV455 from Langrex, RFT ECC81 recommended in this thread, Amperex 7308 PQ (white lettering), CV4033 (not in yet), RFT ECC82 (also not in yet), and Tungsram ECC82 black plate no holes, single pole, solid plate getter (recommended by Wes).  Those have been tough to find but I was able to get my hands on a few.  So far they are the clear winner (and freaking amazing) with the RFT ECC81 in 2nd place (a bit bright for my taste but reveal details like crazy.  Will report back with some pics soon.  

I use OG Focal Clears but I'm now the proud owner of the ZMF Verite Closed stabilized Atoll.  They just shipped out today and I was thrilled to get them.


----------



## jonathan c

busseysound said:


> I'm just getting to know my MJ2 and Gumby (had about 3 weeks).  Got my adapters in earlier in the week, and trying various tubes now.  CV455 from Langrex, RFT ECC81 recommended in this thread, Amperex 7308 PQ (white lettering), CV4033 (not in yet), RFT ECC82 (also not in yet), and Tungsram ECC82 black plate no holes, single pole, solid plate getter (recommended by Wes).  Those have been tough to find but I was able to get my hands on a few.  So far they are the clear winner (and freaking amazing) with the RFT ECC81 in 2nd place (a bit bright for my taste but reveal details like crazy.  Will report back with some pics soon.
> 
> I use OG Focal Clears but I'm now the proud owner of the ZMF Verite Closed stabilized Atoll.  They just shipped out today and I was thrilled to get them.


What h/p cable have you been using (with the Clear)?


----------



## busseysound

jonathan c said:


> What h/p cable have you been using (with the Clear)?


I have one from a store named Halsey on Etsy that has been pretty good.  Way better than the stock cable from Focal.  Using the balanced output.  Can't wait to put my Forza Noir Hybrid HPC into action when the Verite Closed arrive though.


----------



## jonathan c

busseysound said:


> I have one from a store named Halsey on Etsy that has been pretty good.  Way better than the stock cable from Focal.  Using the balanced output.  Can't wait to put my Forza Noir Hybrid HPC into action when the Verite Closed arrive though.


👍 I disliked the stock Focal cable: looked good, too clothy & stiff, _microphonic !_ I bet that Forza/VC is a sonic KO.


----------



## Wes S (Sep 17, 2021)

busseysound said:


> I'm just getting to know my MJ2 and Gumby (had about 3 weeks).  Got my adapters in earlier in the week, and trying various tubes now.  CV455 from Langrex, RFT ECC81 recommended in this thread, Amperex 7308 PQ (white lettering), CV4033 (not in yet), RFT ECC82 (also not in yet), and Tungsram ECC82 black plate no holes, single pole, solid plate getter (recommended by Wes).  Those have been tough to find but I was able to get my hands on a few.  So far they are the clear winner (and freaking amazing) with the RFT ECC81 in 2nd place (a bit bright for my taste but reveal details like crazy.  Will report back with some pics soon.
> 
> I use OG Focal Clears but I'm now the proud owner of the ZMF Verite Closed stabilized Atoll.  They just shipped out today and I was thrilled to get them.


Bravo, on procuring some killer tubes!  Did you say Tungsram ECC82 Black Plate. . . now that's what I am talking about right there.   If it's truly a black plate (grey plates look very similar), then you have done the impossible, and I am seriously impressed.    Look out folks we have another tube roller that means business in the mix.    Looking at the tubes you mentioned (all of which I have recommended in the past),  I believe you have been reading a bunch of my past post, and I am glad they were put to good use.    You have quite the collection of tubes and with the VC on the way fun times ahead no doubt.   Well done!

By the way, not sure how many hours you have on your  RFT ECC81's, but they do settle down a bit with a good 50-60 hours, but they are definitely more revealing than the other's.

Love the avatar too, and looks familiar. . .


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> …after all, the gear must earn its keep…you are not running a charity…🤨…🎼🎶…


Absolutely on both counts.  If I could afford to, and I had a bit more space, then I would consider keeping both.

C3R is very good. I had 4 hours of listening with it last night and I think it's an improvement over Gumby & MJ2.


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> Absolutely on both counts.  If I could afford to, and I had a bit more space, then I would consider keeping both.
> 
> C3R is very good. I had 4 hours of listening with it last night and I think it's an improvement over Gumby & MJ2.


…your Mjolnir II does _not_ have the capacitor modifications, right?….hmm….


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> …your Mjolnir II does _not_ have the capacitor modifications, right?….hmm….


No it's stock.


----------



## busseysound

Wes S said:


> Bravo, on procuring some killer tubes!  Did you say Tungsram ECC82 Black Plate. . . now that's what I am talking about right there.   If it's truly a black plate (grey plates look very similar), then you have done the impossible, and I am seriously impressed.    Look out folks we have another tube roller that means business in the mix.    Looking at the tubes you mentioned (all of which I have recommended in the past),  I believe you have been reading a bunch of my past post, and I am glad they were put to good use.    You have quite the collection of tubes and with the VC on the way fun times ahead no doubt.   Well done!
> 
> By the way, not sure how many hours you have on your  RFT ECC81's, but they do settle down a bit with a good 50-60 hours, but they are definitely more revealing than the other's.
> 
> Love the avatar too, and looks familiar. . .


Thanks for the kind words!  I'll post some pics of the tubes in the next few days but yeah, found the black plates in the ECC82's.  They are absolutely killer.  I really did like the RFT ECC81's for how revealing they were - I'll have to put some more hours on those as well.


----------



## jonathan c

M-83 said:


> No it's stock.


That may be why you think that the Burson 3x Conductor is an improvement over Gumby/MJ2….


----------



## G0rt

busseysound said:


> Thanks for the kind words!  I'll post some pics of the tubes in the next few days but yeah, found the black plates in the ECC82's.  They are absolutely killer.  I really did like the RFT ECC81's for how revealing they were - I'll have to put some more hours on those as well.


Wes and the gang here really do have excellent and discerning taste in bottles. With my DOG(Deaf Old Guy) ears, I'm happy to benefit from those who can still hear.

I loved the '56 CV455's in VH2, but even more in MJ2. They sound as good or better than the CV4033's I have, including the excellent '57 Footscrays, particularly with my Grados.

RFT ECC81's are in VH2 now, and they're as good or better than the 7728's I'd been using, also from Wes. ATM, paired well with HD650, and loving it.

Tomorrow, should have those Arcturus 5965's in hand, maybe one more flavor to indulge in VH2.

An embarrassment of riches.😛


----------



## jonathan c

G0rt said:


> Wes and the gang here really do have excellent and discerning taste in bottles. With my DOG(Deaf Old Guy) ears, I'm happy to benefit from those who can still hear.
> 
> I loved the '56 CV455's in VH2, but even more in MJ2. They sound as good or better than the CV4033's I have, including the excellent '57 Footscrays, particularly with my Grados.
> 
> ...


Hey, if you CAN hear the difference, the DOG is learning some new tricks…😜…


----------



## G0rt

jonathan c said:


> Hey, if you CAN hear the difference, the DOG is learning some new tricks…😜…


Sometimes, it's the old (NOS) tricks that are best.


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> That may be why you think that the Burson 3x Conductor is an improvement over Gumby/MJ2….


Could be but I have no way of validating that first hand unfortunately.

Mine isn't the 3XR, it's the 3R (not balanced). 

The 3R and 3XR are listed on the Audeze website as over of the recommended dacs/amps for LCD-4. Has more then enough power and has good synergy.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Gonna be a tough stretch with no tunes. Had to send the gumby in for the Unison upgrade lol.


----------



## Guidostrunk

M-83 said:


> Could be but I have no way of validating that first hand unfortunately.
> 
> Mine isn't the 3XR, it's the 3R (not balanced).
> 
> The 3R and 3XR are listed on the Audeze website as over of the recommended dacs/amps for LCD-4. Has more then enough power and has good synergy.


I think @Slim1970  briefly owned that particular Burson. What's crazy is at the time. He preferred the modded Liquid Platinum over the Burson. 
The MJ2 stock spanks the modded LP imo. 
Not sure what cans he had at the time though. 

It is a subjective would we live in and synergy plays a huge role in it as well. If you decide on the Burson you should have no issues recouping your money for the schiit stack lol. The Burson also looks like it takes up much less real-estate as well.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> I think @Slim1970  briefly owned that particular Burson. What's crazy is at the time. He preferred the modded Liquid Platinum over the Burson.
> The MJ2 stock spanks the modded LP imo.
> Not sure what cans he had at the time though.
> 
> It is a subjective would we live in and synergy plays a huge role in it as well. If you decide on the Burson you should have no issues recouping your money for the schiit stack lol. The Burson also looks like it takes up much less real-estate as well.


True, but rolling op-amps just does not have _panache._ Consider this: can anyone on this thread name _any_ holy grail op-amp? An electronic oxymoron?…


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> True, but rolling op-amps just does not have _panache._ Consider this: can anyone on this thread name _any_ holy grail op-amp? An electronic oxymoron?…


Can't say I've ever rolled an opamp.. lol.


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> Can't say I've ever rolled an opamp.. lol.


Seriously?  You need to try a ‘58 Rochester.  Way ahead of its time sonically, IMO.


----------



## M-83

Guidostrunk said:


> I think @Slim1970  briefly owned that particular Burson. What's crazy is at the time. He preferred the modded Liquid Platinum over the Burson.
> The MJ2 stock spanks the modded LP imo.
> Not sure what cans he had at the time though.
> 
> It is a subjective would we live in and synergy plays a huge role in it as well. If you decide on the Burson you should have no issues recouping your money for the schiit stack lol. The Burson also looks like it takes up much less real-estate as well.


Yes I guess subjective opinion but I am finding the C3R has more space between instruments, vocals are a more forward, it's a touch more sparkly up top and the bass has greater texture with more slam.  I realised that I'm getting lost in the music far more (in a good way) with C3R and it's very musical.

This is all with LCD-4.

For some reason C3R seems to have more authority/control over LCD-4 than Gumby/MJ2.


----------



## M-83

jonathan c said:


> True, but rolling op-amps just does not have _panache._ Consider this: can anyone on this thread name _any_ holy grail op-amp? An electronic oxymoron?…


The panache is that you can op-amp roll with CR3 in the first place I would say. It's giving users the ability to fine tune their rig.  I applaud that versatility.


----------



## M-83

Guidostrunk said:


> Can't say I've ever rolled an opamp.. lol.


Nor have I, but I might give it a go at some point. It will be another cool learning experience.


----------



## M-83

Guidostrunk said:


> I think @Slim1970  briefly owned that particular Burson. What's crazy is at the time. He preferred the modded Liquid Platinum over the Burson.
> The MJ2 stock spanks the modded LP imo.
> Not sure what cans he had at the time though.
> 
> It is a subjective would we live in and synergy plays a huge role in it as well. If you decide on the Burson you should have no issues recouping your money for the schiit stack lol. The Burson also looks like it takes up much less real-estate as well.


This review I think is very accurate in describing what C3R is like. Admittedly he is a Burson fan boy, but I am a neutral observer who loves Gumby and MJ2 and I gotta say I prefer the Burson. I am definitely going to sell my Schiit stack, but will be a little sad to see it go.

https://headfonics.com/burson-conductor-3-review/


----------



## Guidostrunk

M-83 said:


> This review I think is very accurate in describing what C3R is like. Admittedly he is a Burson fan boy, but I am a neutral observer who loves Gumby and MJ2 and I gotta say I prefer the Burson. I am definitely going to sell my Schiit stack, but will be a little sad to see it go.
> 
> https://headfonics.com/burson-conductor-3-review/


Too bad it didn't have a tube stage integrated lol. The MJ2/Gumby does take up some real estate. Too bad Schiit didn't make an all in one with tubes around the same price point as the Schiit stack.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I just love what tubes bring to the table. I'd get bored not being able to tweak my sound and be stuck with whatever SS delivers. I definitely can't afford to roll amps either lol


----------



## M-83

Guidostrunk said:


> Too bad it didn't have a tube stage integrated lol. The MJ2/Gumby does take up some real estate. Too bad Schiit didn't make an all in one with tubes around the same price point as the Schiit stack.


Yeah I love tubes. This sounds like a tube hybrid with the warmth it has so tbh I'm not missing using tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

Guidostrunk said:


> I just love what tubes bring to the table.


Ha don't I ever agree with you. It's become an indecent obsession. For the ears, for the mind. Tubes are the best thing to happen to the audio world.


----------



## M-83 (Sep 18, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> I just love what tubes bring to the table. I'd get bored not being able to tweak my sound and be stuck with whatever SS delivers. I definitely can't afford to roll amps either lol


Yeah I agree with you. I will op-amp roll at some point which will allow me some degree of tweaking to the sound. I can't afford to roll amps long term. I've been pretty busy doing it over the past year but now I'm really happy and will settle down.


----------



## Guidostrunk

UntilThen said:


> Ha don't I ever agree with you. It's become an indecent obsession. For the ears, for the mind. Tubes are the best thing to happen to the audio world.


Been rolling tubes since 2014 and haven't looked back lol.


----------



## UntilThen

M-83 said:


> Yeah I agree with you. I will op-amp roll at some point which will allow me some degree of tweaking to the sound. I can't afford to roll amps long term. I've been pretty busy doing it over the past year but now I'm really happy and will settle down.



I did an opamp roll and land perfectly on a triple summersault. 2nd review on that page. 
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/burson-audio-supreme-sound-opamp-v5i.21562/reviews


----------



## M-83

UntilThen said:


> I did an opamp roll and land perfectly on a triple summersault. 2nd review on that page.
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/burson-audio-supreme-sound-opamp-v5i.21562/reviews


Nice thx for sharing. That's an interesting read.

Will get to know C3R well before I give rolling a go.


----------



## busseysound

Link to my VC Stabilized that came in today along with tubes/pads I've tested so far with them.

VC Stabilized Atoll in Verite Closed Impressions Thread


----------



## bcowen

busseysound said:


> Link to my VC Stabilized that came in today along with tubes/pads I've tested so far with them.
> 
> VC Stabilized Atoll in Verite Closed Impressions Thread


Dude!!!  Those are absolutely gorgeous!  Congrats.  Me and my Atticus will have to keep each other company in the cheap seats, not that I'm jealous or anything.


----------



## Guidostrunk

busseysound said:


> Link to my VC Stabilized that came in today along with tubes/pads I've tested so far with them.
> 
> VC Stabilized Atoll in Verite Closed Impressions Thread


Wow! The wood grain on those are insane!


----------



## G0rt

Researching 5965's, WRT cathode poisoning specifically, I came across the '62 RCA book on electron tube design. Never copyrighted, and FULL of fascinating info. 

I don't recall seeing it mentioned here, apologies if it's old news.

(Google 'electron tube design' for a multitude of links, some of just the TOC, if you don't want a blind download of a ~30 Mb pdf.)

BTW, those old Arcturus 5965's definitely DO NOT suck. At all. In Valhalla2.


----------



## TK16

Lol 1 of my pairs of Brimar ECC82 square getter are on ebay for cheap. Think @Guidostrunk bought em from me. They are NOS testing.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Br...3-8ee0-48f6-bdad-c6ee5cac5470&redirect=mobile


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Lol 1 of my pairs of Brimar ECC82 square getter are on ebay for cheap. Think @Guidostrunk bought em from me. They are NOS testing.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Brimar-12AU7-ECC82-Long-Plate-Square-Getters/124914716896?_trkparms=amclksrc=ITM&aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=43cd4f8837dc4e55b76613bb9f21779d&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=124914716896&itm=124914716896&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=Brimar,pageci:29887cb8-1e6a-11ec-8eca-7a54b3c4d7c1|parentrq:1fbf06c717c0a7b183cd52fbfffd2332|iid:1&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&pageci=817d9013-8ee0-48f6-bdad-c6ee5cac5470&redirect=mobile


Geez man, you need to sharpen your crayon before you write on tube boxes.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Geez man, you need to sharpen your crayon before you write on tube boxes.


FWIW I enjoyed the boxes more than the tubes. 🤣


----------



## Blacksun

I am running a Mjolnir2 with a Matched Pair of Amperex JAN 7308/E188CC Gold Pin tubes. I have been reading a few posts recommending the 12AT7 CV455 KB/FB BRIMAR RARE TRIPLE MICA 1956 NOS VALVE/TUBE.   Curious on thoughts if this is a worth while consideration?


----------



## jonathan c

Blacksun said:


> I am running a Mjolnir2 with a Matched Pair of Amperex JAN 7308/E188CC Gold Pin tubes. I have been reading a few posts recommending the 12AT7 CV455 KB/FB BRIMAR RARE TRIPLE MICA 1956 NOS VALVE/TUBE.   Curious on thoughts if this is a worth while consideration?


~ Those CV455s are a “holy grail” quality tube without the “holy grail” price. Being made in the Footscray plant and being triple mica with square getters make these tubes _special. _The Amperex tubes which you are using are very good tubes. The Footscrays are _better_ in many ways. [I own Amperex PQ 7308s.]
~ If you decide to use the CV455s, a pair of 12A**—> E88CC adapters is needed. These are available from Pulse Tube Store, located in India. I have ordered tubes / adapters from PTS numerous times: no problems and longest delivery time to me has been ten days.


----------



## Blacksun

Thanks for the response!   Ok, ordering a set now for the Mol2...  I also have an old Valhalla,  Would that take 4 of those as well?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Blacksun said:


> Thanks for the response!   Ok, ordering a set now for the Mol2...  I also have an old Valhalla,  Would that take 4 of those as well?


No. Just the front 2 tubes in the Valhalla


----------



## Blacksun

Curious what are the back tubes for?


----------



## jonathan c

Blacksun said:


> Curious what are the back tubes for?


Those are the ‘power tubes’. They are 6N6P. They are a Soviet/Russian design with no equivalent - the best of these is the brand Foton. Close to it is the Novosibirsk (NEVZ).


----------



## Blacksun

Ok,  Thank you for the info.  I will leave those alone then...


----------



## jonathan c

Blacksun said:


> Ok,  Thank you for the info.  I will leave those alone then...


You can always upgrade the back two…


----------



## Blacksun (Sep 28, 2021)

Was the upgrade the 6N6P FOTON you mentioned above? Will they need an adapter as well? TY for the help!


----------



## G0rt

Blacksun said:


> Was the upgrade the 6N6P FOTON you mentioned above?  Will they need an adapter as well?  TY for the help!


No adaptors, but socket savers lift them up for better ventilation.


----------



## busseysound

So I've had a few weeks with the new MJ2/Gumby and trying different tubes.  Here's what I've discovered so far:

First, Zack at ZMF makes some insanely good headphones.  My VC stabilized are breaking in nicely - which helps for tube rolling analysis of course. Classical and Rock are the main genres for testing.  I also tried to give each set time to burn in a bit.  On to the tubes (in order of preference - best last):

*Amperex 7308 6DJ8 White Lettering:  *Overpriced in my opinion.  They had decent dynamic range but had lots of artifacts and seemed to get congested quite easily.  I just didn't like this one much at all.

*Tungsram ECC88 Grey Plate Solid Disc Getter:  *I didn't have the black nickel plates in yet (thanks to Wes for the info on those) so I got some gray plates instead.  Not bad.  Pretty balanced but lacked clarity compared to some of the nicer tubes.  If you can pick some up cheap these aren't bad.  Before nicer tubes came in I found myself using these most actually.

*Brimar KB/FB 12AT7 CV455:  *Now these were impressive.  They slam REALLY hard in my opinion.  A bit too much for my taste, and lacked just a bit of clarity from some of the others I liked better, but these are really great tubes.  I got them from Langrex so not the greatest CV455's out there for sure - but they were pretty darn good for the money.

*RFT ECC81 With Folded Plate Tabs: *Thanks to Wes for the heads up again on which RFT tubes to roll. Very, very clear tubes - but a bit bright for my taste. I think that's true for maybe all RFTs? I also tried the ECC82 with the folded plate tabs and I liked them just a bit better. The clarity is pretty crazy in these. If you don't mind a brighter sound these are outstanding for the money.

*Amperex ECC88 6DJ8 PQ Orange Lettering:  *These things are pretty sick.  Great soundstage, clarity, balance.  Only flaw I find is that in the 600 to 700 Hz range there's a bit of a bump.  They can be a bit more difficult to find but I actually picked up 5 of them for $20 each!  

*Tungsram ECC82 Solid Disc Getter w/Nickel Black Plates (no holes):  *Yep the one that Wes likes so much.  Took A LOT of searching, but I found some (at not too bad of a price).  These have been the best overall.  Great dynamics (outstanding actually), very balanced, great clarity, just about everything you could ask for.  

In the next couple of weeks (as they come in) I'll be trying some Tungsram E88CC's and some Philips 6201 E81CC SQ (not pinched).  I'd love to hear a pair of the 6201's pinched, but the pocketbook has been hit hard enough for now.  Thanks again to Wes for all your help and others on here that share such valuable info!


----------



## Wes S

busseysound said:


> So I've had a few weeks with the new MJ2/Gumby and trying different tubes.  Here's what I've discovered so far:
> 
> First, Zack at ZMF makes some insanely good headphones.  My VC stabilized are breaking in nicely - which helps for tube rolling analysis of course. Classical and Rock are the main genres for testing.  I also tried to give each set time to burn in a bit.  On to the tubes (in order of preference - best last):
> 
> ...


Good stuff man!


----------



## busseysound

Wes S said:


> Good stuff man!


What news on fuses?


----------



## regaet

busseysound said:


> So I've had a few weeks with the new MJ2/Gumby and trying different tubes.  Here's what I've discovered so far:
> 
> First, Zack at ZMF makes some insanely good headphones.  My VC stabilized are breaking in nicely - which helps for tube rolling analysis of course. Classical and Rock are the main genres for testing.  I also tried to give each set time to burn in a bit.  On to the tubes (in order of preference - best last):
> 
> *RFT ECC81 With Folded Plate Tabs: *Thanks to Wes for the heads up again on which RFT tubes to roll. Very, very clear tubes - but a bit bright for my taste. I think that's true for maybe all RFTs? I also tried the ECC82 with the folded plate tabs and I liked them just a bit better. The clarity is pretty crazy in these. If you don't mind a brighter sound these are outstanding for the money.





busseysound said:


> Just out of curiosity how long did you burn the RFT ECC81's in?


----------



## regaet (Sep 30, 2021)

Oops, double post.


----------



## Wes S (Oct 1, 2021)

busseysound said:


> What news on fuses?


Funny you should mention it, as I just put in my payment for the Pre-Order of this one yesterday, and can't wait to hear what it can do.  I should have it in a couple weeks, and this will be my first audiophile grade fuse and I am pumped.  I have read nothing but great things about SR fuses. . .


----------



## busseysound

Probably didn't burn in the ECC81's in long enough - I should give them more time (and the RFT ECC82's)


----------



## busseysound

Wes S said:


> Funny you should mention it, as I just put in my payment for the Pre-Order of this one yesterday, and can't wait to hear what it can do.  I should have it in a couple weeks, and this will be my first audiophile grade fuse and I am pumped.  I have read nothing but great things about SR fuses. . .


Keep us posted!


----------



## TK16

Found a couple good deals on Heerlen ECC82 pair 58's and a quad of 7316 O getter 59's auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/CLEAN-MATC...3-91f4-4afd-a78a-72ef801ec6be&redirect=mobile

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Amperex-...c-810b-4634-ade4-692a098a13b0&redirect=mobile


----------



## regaet (Oct 2, 2021)

busseysound said:


> Probably didn't burn in the ECC81's in long enough - I should give them more time (and the RFT ECC82's)


In my Valhalla it took a good 50-60 hrs to lose the edgy brightness that bugged me. They are now very smooth and still very detailed .


----------



## Guidostrunk

Finally got my gumby back yesterday. Anyone on the fence about the Unison upgrade, just do it! It blows away Gen5 lol. 2 weeks without tunes was tough.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Found a couple good deals on Heerlen ECC82 pair 58's and a quad of 7316 O getter 59's auction.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/CLEAN-MATCHED-Pair-1958-Amperex-ECC82-12AU7-SCRIPT-Logo-FOIL-Getter-TEST-STRONG/234211901970?_trkparms=amclksrc=ITM&aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=234294&meid=44bc1495266046afb70d275cd3c523c3&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=234211901970&itm=234211901970&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=Amperex,pageci:73dbab79-22d4-11ec-8b30-2abcee6a9580|parentrq:3cae7f6517c0a9fc3c10be7afffffef8|iid:1&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&pageci=348ba903-91f4-4afd-a78a-72ef801ec6be&redirect=mobile
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Amperex-7316-12Au7-tubes-Heerlen-Factory-1959-same-production-line/115014231702?_trkparms=amclksrc=ITM&aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=234294&meid=44bc1495266046afb70d275cd3c523c3&pid=100675&rk=9&rkt=15&sd=234211901970&itm=115014231702&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2380057&brand=Amperex,pageci:73dbab79-22d4-11ec-8b30-2abcee6a9580|parentrq:3cae7f6517c0a9fc3c10be7afffffef8|iid:1&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&pageci=c0aed4ac-810b-4634-ade4-692a098a13b0&redirect=mobile


Wait...those are tubes.  I thought we were doing fuses now?  I'm so confused.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Wait...those are tubes.  I thought we were doing fuses now?  I'm so confused.


Don’t be confused…be contubed…


----------



## regaet (Oct 2, 2021)

Wow, I just checked https://www.ebay.com/itm/265338520720?ViewItem=&item=265338520720 and there are only 3 RFT ECC81's left. Glad I already ordered a backup pair!

Update: sold out


----------



## jonathan c (Oct 2, 2021)

There might have to be a RFT thread…Anyway, I find that the RFT ECC81 is a _magnificent_ partner to the Melz 1578 6N8s in the Linear Tube Audio MZ3*! I think of the Les McCann album title “Invitation to Openness” (Atlantic Records, 1972) and the music therein. RFT soundscape to unbelievable horizons…not in the artificially wide Sennheiser HD-800 sense…but is as Wes would say “out there!”…filled with gradated layers of reverberation. The music sounds as though it has been binaurally recorded, where the transition from “in the head” to “beyond the head” is seamless…🤪😆🎶 All this augments clarity and dynamics to the _n_th degree…No comment on tonality for all the best reasons…the tube itself and in the MZ3 _is_ Really F~~~ing Terrific…
(* Uses 6SN7 and 12AT7 natively [no adapters].)


----------



## Wes S (Oct 3, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> There might have to be a RFT thread…Anyway, I find that the RFT ECC81 is a _magnificent_ partner to the Melz 1578 6N8s in the Linear Tube Audio MZ3*! I think of the Les McCann album title “Invitation to Openness” (Atlantic Records, 1972) and the music therein. RFT soundscape to unbelievable horizons…not in the artificially wide Sennheiser HD-800 sense…but is as Wes would say “out there!”…filled with gradated layers of reverberation. The music sounds as though it has been binaurally recorded, where the transition from “in the head” to “beyond the head” is seamless…🤪😆🎶 All this augments clarity and dynamics to the _n_th degree…No comment on tonality for all the best reasons…the tube itself and in the MZ3 _is_ Really F~~~ing Terrific…
> (* Uses 6SN7 and 12AT7 natively [no adapters].)


Well. . .I think that just might be the best description yet!  Well said bro and by the way they sound pretty f-ing terrific in the RH-5 as well.


----------



## Wes S

regaet said:


> Wow, I just checked https://www.ebay.com/itm/265338520720?ViewItem=&item=265338520720 and there are only 3 RFT ECC81's left. Glad I already ordered a backup pair!
> 
> Update: sold out


They have been selling like hot cakes. . . Gonna be lots of people hearing some great sound.


----------



## Blacksun (Oct 6, 2021)

I just received my order of 12AT7 CV45S Brimar MICA tubes from Langrex.  Looking forward to trying them out...


----------



## G0rt (Oct 6, 2021)

Blacksun said:


> I just received my order of 12AT7 CV45S Brimar MICA tubes from Langrex.  Looking forward to trying them out...


You're likely to really enjoy those. Give them 15-150 hours to wake up from their long Winter's nap, and you may be set for life, since they'll be good for 10,000 hours plus, as much as 5-10 times that, probably.

Currently, I roll those and a nice pair of RFT ECC81's in my MJ2, and have no complaints. I've also a variety of CV4033 that work well in MJ2, and a nice pair of 7728's.

In VH2, I'm using some old triple mica, tall black plate 5965's and have never heard better. It's a shame those exceed the filament capacity of MJ2.

The dynamics of 12AV7 class I find even better than 12AT7 class, which to me sound better than any of the 2C51 class, or 6922 class.

In past, I've used many 6BZ7 and 6BQ7A, but even the Brimars lack the blackground and dynamics of nearly any of the 12A?7's. Weird, huh? 😁


----------



## Guidostrunk

G0rt said:


> You're likely to really enjoy those. Give them 15-150 hours to wake up from their long Winter's nap, and you may be set for life, since they'll be good for 10,000 hours plus, as much as 5-10 times that, probably.
> 
> Currently, I roll those and a nice pair of RFT ECC81's in my MJ2, and have no complaints. I've also a variety of CV4033 that work well in MJ2, and a nice pair of 7728's.
> 
> ...


Have you tried the 12av7 in the MJ2?


----------



## G0rt

Guidostrunk said:


> Have you tried the 12av7 in the MJ2?


A pair of 12AV7's draw more filament current than is considered wise by Schiit, by some 100 mA. I don't want to overheat, or blow a fuse. The CV455's and others sound plenty good.

I've considered having a couple of adapters made that would let me power the filaments from an external source, which I have. Then I could even run 6SN7's, or my favorite CV1988's, besides.

This morning, trying another Arcturus pair of 5965's in the VH2, 2 mica gray plates made by GE. So far so good. 😁


----------



## Guidostrunk

Man that would be insane if there was a way to run cv1988 in MJ2.
Absolutely love those tubes!


----------



## jonathan c

G0rt said:


> A pair of 12AV7's draw more filament current than is considered wise by Schiit, by some 100 mA. I don't want to overheat, or blow a fuse. The CV455's and others sound plenty good.
> 
> I've considered having a couple of adapters made that would let me power the filaments from an external source, which I have. Then I could even run 6SN7's, or my favorite CV1988's, besides.
> 
> This morning, trying another Arcturus pair of 5965's in the VH2, 2 mica gray plates made by GE. So far so good. 😁


Could a pair of 6J5 (‘half a 6SN7’) be run…?


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Could a pair of 6J5 (‘half a 6SN7’) be run…?


I believe that you would need 2 per side. Single triodes.


----------



## ksorota

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/f-s-numerous-top-level-e88cc-6922-tubes.12741/

Selling a bunch of tubes for a friend. Check out what I have and I can get pictures.  These were all for his Mjolnir 2.


----------



## M-83

Guidostrunk said:


> I never turn mine off lol. The warm up time to get to optimal running temp +/-108°(heat gun temp on top logo) just takes way too long. Roughly 2+ hours.


Yeah there is a notable difference between cold and optimal temperature and how that affects sound quality. I had never wanted to leave MJ2 on 24/7 mainly due to tube preservation.


----------



## M-83 (Oct 14, 2021)

It's with a heavy heart I say I'm going to be selling Gumby and MJ2 very soon, as I've settled on endgame.

I returned my LCD-4 having not been 100% happy with the sheer cost to performance ratio and Gumby and MJ2 aren't doing it justice.

I had returned my C3R due to a couple of little niggles.

I thought I was going to settle with the Schiit stack but then decided to try out LCD-3. It's a great headphone, quite different to LCD-4.

It reminds me of Alpha Prime but it's like in steroids. it's what I'm currently after in a HP. It sounds gorgeous.

I agreed with the C3R reseller to take it back off him and with a replacement remote control.

C3R synergy with LCD-3 is perfect. It's got massive power and it's a hugely visceral experience. It really grabs control of LCD-3. it's more suited to me than the Schiit stack.

I'm waiting on delivery of a single ended cable for my Primes and I'll keep them alongside LCD-3. Can't wait to hear what Prime is like with C3R!

When mates visit we will be able to enjoy a few beers and listen to both HP's at same time using C3R's dual HP outputs.

My other gear has sold, with only VO to sell on. I'll get Gumby and MJ2 listed next weekend.

Finally the journey stops for the time being and I can just enjoy the music.... Until another case of upgraditis hits me 😂


----------



## billerb1

Hey if any of you have a pair of the RFT ECC81 Foil Getters you'd like to sell PM me.


----------



## jonathan c (Oct 16, 2021)

billerb1 said:


> Hey if any of you have a pair of the RFT ECC81 Foil Getters you'd like to sell PM me.


Back to Telefunken ECC801s?….avatar….no….must be RFT!


----------



## Wes S (Oct 16, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Back to Telefunken ECC801s?….avatar….


I have a feeling that flag is flying for another brand now.


----------



## billerb1

Wes knows all !!!!


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> I have a feeling that flag is flying for another brand now.


I know……..RFT…….a standard bearer chez LTA MZ3, Valhalla II l, WA2……


----------



## bcowen

billerb1 said:


> Wes knows all !!!!


Well then thank you both for _not_ talking about it. I'm broke.


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> Wes knows all !!!!


The “Wesard of NOZ”….🪄🪄🪄….


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> I have a feeling that flag is flying for another brand now.


😂 yep.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Anyone heard from @TK16 ? Haven't seen him in a while. Hope all is well Thomas!


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Anyone heard from @TK16 ? Haven't seen him in a while. Hope all is well Thomas!


Unfortunately I passed away last week. 😃


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> Unfortunately I passed away last week. 😃


Very sorry to hear that.  But I'm a bit miffed I didn't get a funeral invitation.  Please fix that next time.


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> Unfortunately I passed away last week. 😃


*‘R*oll’ *I*n *P*eace


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> Unfortunately I passed away last week. 😃


😂😂😂🙏


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> Very sorry to hear that.  But I'm a bit miffed I didn't get a funeral invitation.  Please fix that next time.


I didn't get an invitation either. Had to scalp a ticket myself.


----------



## G0rt

TK16 said:


> I didn't get an invitation either. Had to scalp a ticket myself.


Hope you got some Last Rights or something. Holy Roller, ya know. 🙃


----------



## TK16

G0rt said:


> Hope you got some Last Rights or something. Holy Roller, ya know. 🙃


Was seeing fire and brimstone, that's when I came back to life.


----------



## G0rt

TK16 said:


> Was seeing fire and brimstone, that's when I came back to life.


Heater/cathode shorts? 🤭


----------



## bgalakazam

For the current owners, would you recommend a Lyr 3 or a Jotunheim 2 as new Mjolnir's are no longer possible? I am leaning toward the Lyr to pair with my Gungnir, I am not set on balanced 100%. Or any other amps that are similar to Mjolnir 2? Thanks.


----------



## G0rt

bgalakazam said:


> For the current owners, would you recommend a Lyr 3 or a Jotunheim 2 as new Mjolnir's are no longer possible? I am leaning toward the Lyr to pair with my Gungnir, I am not set on balanced 100%. Or any other amps that are similar to Mjolnir 2? Thanks.


The excellence of Lyr3 has been an open secret for a long time, especially if you're a bottle baby. 😁


----------



## Smoothstereo

Haven't been on this thread for a while, but wanted to get some feedback on tubes. Last time I was reading, the popular tubes of choice were the late 1950's Brimar CV4033 Footscray and CV455. I am currently using a Brimar CV4024 from Rochester plant (KB/AD) maybe from the 1950s/60's and wanted to know what will I gain from moving up to one of these Footscray? Is the CV4024 close enough or miles behind to justify the added costs? Thanks in advance.


----------



## omkazn

busseysound said:


> So I've had a few weeks with the new MJ2/Gumby and trying different tubes.  Here's what I've discovered so far:
> 
> First, Zack at ZMF makes some insanely good headphones.  My VC stabilized are breaking in nicely - which helps for tube rolling analysis of course. Classical and Rock are the main genres for testing.  I also tried to give each set time to burn in a bit.  On to the tubes (in order of preference - best last):
> 
> ...


Just got the *Tungsram ECC82 Solid Disc Getter w/Nickel Black Plates (no holes) *in my system and goodness christ, it is exactly as Wes and Busseysound wrote, the dynamics, soundstaging, imaging and surprisingly bass (both sub-bass and slam) improved over the CV455, RFT ECC81 I was rolling in my system before. Cost waayy more than the other two sets but...dare I say worth it.


----------



## Wes S (Oct 19, 2021)

omkazn said:


> Just got the *Tungsram ECC82 Solid Disc Getter w/Nickel Black Plates (no holes) *in my system and goodness christ, it is exactly as Wes and Busseysound wrote, the dynamics, soundstaging, imaging and surprisingly bass (both sub-bass and slam) improved over the CV455, RFT ECC81 I was rolling in my system before. Cost waayy more than the other two sets but...dare I say worth it.


Interesting. . .I just recently rolled my Tungsram ECC82 Black Welded Plates just to see how they compared to the RFT ECC81 Folded Plate Foil Disc Getter in my system and the RFT is a clear step up in all aspects of the sound and especially the stage in my opinion.  In my system, the RFT makes the Tungsram sound artificial (uneven and smaller stage) and wonky (to forward in the vocals/mids) and that just goes to show, we all have different preferences and synergies with our systems.


----------



## omkazn

Wes S said:


> Interesting. . .I just recently rolled my Tungsram ECC82 Black Welded Plates just to see how they compared to the RFT ECC81 Folded Plate Foil Disc Getter in my system and the RFT is a clear step up in all aspects of the sound and especially the stage in my opinion.  In my system, the RFT makes the Tungsram sound artificial (uneven and smaller stage) and wonky (to forward in the vocals/mids) and that just goes to show, we all have different preferences and synergies with our systems.


Interesting! Did the sound of the RFT change as time went on? I see you are using a Pendant, guessing system dependencies do matter!


----------



## Wes S (Oct 19, 2021)

omkazn said:


> Interesting! Did the sound of the RFT change as time went on? I see you are using a Pendant, guessing system dependencies do matter!


Assuming we are using the same version RFT, they sound pretty darn good right from the start, but they do open up and become more refined once fully burned in.

System dependencies and preferences definitely matter, and I am using the RFT Foil Getters in both my Pendant SE and RH-5.  I am also using a NOS DAC.

Compared to the Tungsram, I hear more nuances and detail with the RFT, and the stage is so massive with everything so well balanced and spaced out it's stunning.  I am a sucker for a big soundstage and imaging and the RFT has the most open and natural placement of instruments I have heard yet.


----------



## busseysound

I've been using the RFT ECC82 (got a different pair than my original) and this pair was like, WOW totally different than the other ECC81's or ECC82's from RFT that I have (all are foil getters with folded plates).  They all test very strong, but I was amazed at the difference between different pairs.

I also have two pairs of the Tungsram ECC82 black plates and one pair is slightly better than the other.  I'm currently leaning to the RFT ECC82 though.  Just goes to show that no two tubes are exactly alike and all of our ears are different!

A friend of mine had some 12AT7 Raytheon tubes (very old) and I thought I'd try them out in the MJ2 for fun.  And..... one side of my amp shorted out lol.  It should arrive at Schiit today for them to repair it.  Bad idea - I should have had them tested first.


----------



## Guidostrunk

7 foil getters left folks.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC81-RFT-...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=707-127634-2357-0


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> 7 foil getters left folks.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC81-RFT-...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=707-127634-2357-0


Get them while they're hot!


----------



## Rowethren

Wes S said:


> Get them while they're hot!


Just make sure to wear oven gloves!


----------



## dude120

Hi, I picked up a mjollnir 2 last month. It worked fine for 3 days then the fuse blew. I sent it back to schiit and got it back recently and have had the same thing happen.

I've not used anything balanced -> single ended connectors like mentioned in the manual. Any idea what might be causing the fuse to repeatedly blow in the unit?

Anyone know where can I procure a replacement fuse?


----------



## G0rt

busseysound said:


> I've been using the RFT ECC82 (got a different pair than my original) and this pair was like, WOW totally different than the other ECC81's or ECC82's from RFT that I have (all are foil getters with folded plates).  They all test very strong, but I was amazed at the difference between different pairs.
> 
> I also have two pairs of the Tungsram ECC82 black plates and one pair is slightly better than the other.  I'm currently leaning to the RFT ECC82 though.  Just goes to show that no two tubes are exactly alike and all of our ears are different!
> 
> A friend of mine had some 12AT7 Raytheon tubes (very old) and I thought I'd try them out in the MJ2 for fun.  And..... one side of my amp shorted out lol.  It should arrive at Schiit today for them to repair it.  Bad idea - I should have had them tested first.


It's amazing how well MJ2 expresses different bottles. That circlotron thingy really pays it forward.

I finally got around to rolling a pair of RCA 3 mica, black plate 5814A's into MJ2 from VH2, where their headroom and transparency impressed me mightily, and their even handedness across all my cans and genres.

In MJ2, once you get over the spooky dead quiet and absence of coloration, the micro dynamics and plankton are ... impressively impressive. 😁

These are ECC82's on steroids, MilSpec and rated for digital use, back in the day. 

I have a NOS pair incoming today, same D getters, from '59 or thereabouts, and I found a couple sets of earlier NOS square getters scrounging online.

REAL HIFI 🥰😍🤗


----------



## Wes S

G0rt said:


> It's amazing how well MJ2 expresses different bottles. That circlotron thingy really pays it forward.
> 
> I finally got around to rolling a pair of RCA 3 mica, black plate 5814A's into MJ2 from VH2, where their headroom and transparency impressed me mightily, and their even handedness across all my cans and genres.
> 
> ...


The 5814 is a killer tube, and I have a couple of the Sylvania Triple Mica Grey Plate Square Getter (My favorite from that family) that I will never get rid of.


----------



## busseysound

G0rt said:


> It's amazing how well MJ2 expresses different bottles. That circlotron thingy really pays it forward.
> 
> I finally got around to rolling a pair of RCA 3 mica, black plate 5814A's into MJ2 from VH2, where their headroom and transparency impressed me mightily, and their even handedness across all my cans and genres.
> 
> ...


Can you share a picture of the RCA triple micas?  Wondering what the lettering is like and what getters to look for.  Thanks!


----------



## G0rt

busseysound said:


> Can you share a picture of the RCA triple micas?  Wondering what the lettering is like and what getters to look for.  Thanks!


My first sets are RCA, but also marked JRC. These are D getter, described as 'fat' D getters. These were all eBay finds. Shiny black plates.

The square getters ordered from Langrex are plain RCA. The plates look flat black in the photos.

I understand that 5814A's were all made by GE, RCA or Sylvania. I'll try others in due course. These are very good.


----------



## Wes S

Some have asked, so I am just reporting back on the SR Purple fuse now that I have had several full days worth of burn-in, and it's a real game changer fellas.  I am actually quite shocked with how it was able to enhance all aspects of the sound, and to a degree that is quite obvious and seriously mind blowing.  All aspects of the sound have improved, as in the noise floor is pitch black, PRAT has improved, bass is tighter, deeper, more impactful and textured, mids have more space and seperation, with better detail and realism, the highs are smooth but well extended, and the stage is more holographic with added depth and height in all directions.  The way the instruments and vocals are more fully fleshed out and lifelike sounding is stunning.  This fuse has some serious voodoo magic inside it.   

The performance upgrade provided by this fuse was just as substantial as a good tube roll and perhaps maybe even a bit more, and I will be changing out the fuses in all my components in the near future.


----------



## busseysound

Wes S said:


> Some have asked, so I am just reporting back on the SR Purple fuse now that I have had several full days worth of burn-in, and it's a real game changer fellas.  I am actually quite shocked with how it was able to enhance all aspects of the sound, and to a degree that is quite obvious and seriously mind blowing.  All aspects of the sound have improved, as in the noise floor is pitch black, PRAT has improved, bass is tighter, deeper, more impactful and textured, mids have more space and seperation, with better detail and realism, the highs are smooth but well extended, and the stage is more holographic with added depth and height in all directions.  The way the instruments and vocals are more fully fleshed out and lifelike sounding is stunning.  This fuse has some serious voodoo magic inside it.
> 
> The performance upgrade provided by this fuse was just as substantial as a good tube roll and perhaps maybe even a bit more, and I will be changing out the fuses in all my components in the near future.


Amazing!  I'm wondering if it's possible to change the fuse in an MJ2.  Which amp did you try your fuse with?


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Some have asked, so I am just reporting back on the SR Purple fuse now that I have had several full days worth of burn-in, and it's a real game changer fellas.  I am actually quite shocked with how it was able to enhance all aspects of the sound, and to a degree that is quite obvious and seriously mind blowing.  All aspects of the sound have improved, as in the noise floor is pitch black, PRAT has improved, bass is tighter, deeper, more impactful and textured, mids have more space and seperation, with better detail and realism, the highs are smooth but well extended, and the stage is more holographic with added depth and height in all directions.  The way the instruments and vocals are more fully fleshed out and lifelike sounding is stunning.  This fuse has some serious voodoo magic inside it.
> 
> The performance upgrade provided by this fuse was just as substantial as a good tube roll and perhaps maybe even a bit more, and I will be changing out the fuses in all my components in the near future.


No fuses in ears, though…🤪


----------



## Wes S (Oct 25, 2021)

busseysound said:


> Amazing!  I'm wondering if it's possible to change the fuse in an MJ2.  Which amp did you try your fuse with?


I have only tried it with my RH-5 so far, but I am going to be replacing the one in my Pendant SE next.

I am not sure on the size of the fuse for the MJ2, but I just looked at a picture of the insides of the amp, and the fuse is close to where you connect the power cord, and I imagine it's not hard to change (it was super easy with my RH-5).


----------



## G0rt

Wes S said:


> I have only tried it with my RH-5 so far, but I am going to be replacing the one in my Pendant SE next.
> 
> I am not sure on the size of the fuse for the MJ2, but I just looked at a picture of the insides of the amp, and the fuse is close to where you connect the power cord, and I imagine it's not hard to change.


Do we have any idea why it might make such a difference?


----------



## Wes S

G0rt said:


> Do we have any idea why it might make such a difference?


I have no idea, but I am not alone in my findings with the new Purple fuse.  Synergistic Research puts some kind of "magical" compound inside the fuse, as well as some other "treatments", and the result is mind blowing.


----------



## Ah Clem

What is the value of the fuse in the Mjolnir 2?  Which Purple fuse should I purchase?


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> The 5814 is a killer tube, and I have a couple of the Sylvania Triple Mica Grey Plate Square Getter (My favorite from that family) that I will never get rid of.


Just don't EVER get the Philips ECG version of the 5814 (blue silkscreened text).  It's a 'kill your ears' tube, and probably one of the worst sounding tubes I've ever heard.  I've never tried an RCA, but the Sylvania is very, very nice.


----------



## bcowen

dude120 said:


> Hi, I picked up a mjollnir 2 last month. It worked fine for 3 days then the fuse blew. I sent it back to schiit and got it back recently and have had the same thing happen.
> 
> I've not used anything balanced -> single ended connectors like mentioned in the manual. Any idea what might be causing the fuse to repeatedly blow in the unit?
> 
> Anyone know where can I procure a replacement fuse?


Have you checked your line voltage?  And assuming you bought the MJ2 used, have you checked to be sure it is configured for the right voltage (ie: not set up for 230v and being plugged into 115v or vice versa)?


----------



## roman410 (Oct 25, 2021)

Ah Clem said:


> What is the value of the fuse in the Mjolnir 2?  Which Purple fuse should I purchase?


The size of fuse in MJ2 it is small (5x20mm).

I bought my first MJ2 couple years ago, used and that one was have installed T type (slow blow) fuse of value 1A.
My second Mjolnir 2,  what I own right now, come replacement of first one directly from Schiit audio, and this was have installed F type (fast blow) fuse value 2A.

I replaced original Fast blow 2A fuse for SR orange Fast blow 2.5A.

I recommend to you open your MJ2 and check type and value of fuse installed, and order next value up SR purple fuse.

My Mjolnir 2 it is configured for 115v. MJ2 configured for 230v, can have different value of fuse.


----------



## G0rt

Wes S said:


> I have no idea, but I am not alone in my findings with the new Purple fuse.  Synergistic Research puts some kind of "magical" compound inside the fuse, as well as some other "treatments", and the result is mind blowing.


Interesting. Synergistic has been widely panned as snake oil WRT their many products, but nevertheless...

Knowing a little about the sonic impact of tube vs SS rectification, much of which is the effect of the load dependent nonlinear internal series resistance of any vacuum rectifier, which despite any purely theoretical imperfection can clearly sound really GOOD, I wonder if they might be doing something along that line.

Might be interesting to measure the voltage drop across one of those purple urples under load. A 'perfect' fuse would measure near zero, but perfect ain't ever what it used to be. 🤔


----------



## Wes S

G0rt said:


> Interesting. Synergistic has been widely panned as snake oil WRT their many products, but nevertheless...
> 
> Knowing a little about the sonic impact of tube vs SS rectification, much of which is the effect of the load dependent nonlinear internal series resistance of any vacuum rectifier, which despite any purely theoretical imperfection can clearly sound really GOOD, I wonder if they might be doing something along that line.
> 
> Might be interesting to measure the voltage drop across one of those purple urples under load. A 'perfect' fuse would measure near zero, but perfect ain't ever what it used to be. 🤔


I hear ya on the snake oil with SR, and I know they get that a lot.  They do have some strange products, but I have also read great stuff about them from very respectable people in the hobby.  The way I look at is that SR offers a 30 day no hassle return policy on everything, so there is no loss in trying.  I am a simple guy, and all I know is the Purple fuse made everything sound better, and I will not be returning it.  In fact, I am saving up for 4 more of them to put in all my other components, and I especially can't wait to hear what one can do in my Pendant SE.


----------



## busseysound

roman410 said:


> The size of fuse in MJ2 it is small (5x20mm).
> 
> I bought my first MJ2 couple years ago, used and that one was have installed T type (slow blow) fuse of value 1A.
> My second Mjolnir 2,  what I own right now, come replacement of first one directly from Schiit audio, and this was have installed F type (fast blow) fuse value 2A.
> ...


Took the fuse out of my MJ2.  On one end I saw a letter P and 250V.  The other side had 1.6A - So I know I should get a 2.0A fuse but not sure if it's slow or fast?


----------



## bcowen

busseysound said:


> Took the fuse out of my MJ2.  On one end I saw a letter P and 250V.  The other side had 1.6A - So I know I should get a 2.0A fuse but not sure if it's slow or fast?


There should be a "T" or an "F" marked on one end...may be on the end of the end cap itself.  Hard to see at times without a strong light and magnifying glass. Perhaps what you're seeing as a P is actually an F ?  "T" is a slo-blow, and "F" is a fast blow.


----------



## busseysound

bcowen said:


> There should be a "T" or an "F" marked on one end...may be on the end of the end cap itself.  Hard to see at times without a strong light and magnifying glass. Perhaps what you're seeing as a P is actually an F ?  "T" is a slo-blow, and "F" is a fast blow.


Just opened it back up and saw the "F" with a line under it.  I suspect that's it?


----------



## busseysound

busseysound said:


> Just opened it back up and saw the "F" with a line under it.  I suspect that's it?


Actually I did some more research and found the exact fuse in the MJ2.  It's a Littelfuse 1.6A 250V 239 series slo blow part # 023901.6HXP (they only make the slo blow in the 239 series looks like).


----------



## Wes S (Oct 27, 2021)

roman410 said:


> The size of fuse in MJ2 it is small (5x20mm).
> 
> I bought my first MJ2 couple years ago, used and that one was have installed T type (slow blow) fuse of value 1A.
> My second Mjolnir 2,  what I own right now, come replacement of first one directly from Schiit audio, and this was have installed F type (fast blow) fuse value 2A.
> ...


Kind of curious why you would go with the next value up with the fuse?  Seems to me you would want the exact same one, and going with one size up means that it won't blow when it's supposed to?  I have the same size SR fuse as the stock fuse in my RH-5 and it's been doing it's thing perfectly.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> Kind of curious why you would go with the next value up with the fuse?  Seems to me you would want the exact same one, and going with one size up means that it won't blow when it's supposed to?  I have the same size SR fuse as the stock fuse in my RH-5 and it's been doing it's thing perfectly.


Going up in amps isn't necessarily a bad thing. The amp will pull what it needs even if you went up to 5amps. The voltage has to be correct though.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Going up in amps isn't necessarily a bad thing. The amp will pull what it needs even if you went up to 5amps. The voltage has to be correct though.


Now I am even more confused. . .on the thread talking about my DAC which uses a 400ma fuse, we were told by the manufacturer not to use anything higher or it will blow the transformer.  Perhaps DAC's are different or at least the one I own is?


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Now I am even more confused. . .on the thread talking about my DAC which uses a 400ma fuse, we were told by the manufacturer not to use anything higher or it will blow the transformer.  Perhaps DAC's are different or at least the one I own is?


It sounds as though, within your DAC, the transformer current capacity is 400ma. In a current surge, one wants the fuse rather than the transformer to blow. If the fuse here is rated higher than 400ma, the transformer will blow before the fuse. Why in your DAC 400ma rather than 1A, 2A, 3.15A? Probably because the DAC (Morpheus) is not an amplification device.


----------



## Wes S (Oct 27, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> It sounds as though, within your DAC, the transformer current capacity is 400ma. In a current surge, one wants the fuse rather than the transformer to blow. If the fuse here is rated higher than 400ma, the transformer will blow before the fuse. Why in your DAC 400ma rather than 1A, 2A, 3.15A? Probably because the DAC (Morpheus) is not an amplification device.


Thanks for the info.  I am going to just stick with swapping fuses with the exact same rating, and not worry about damaging my precious gear (DAC and amps).  I figure the people that designed the gear, put a certain value fuse in said gear for a reason, and I see no point in deviating from that.


----------



## Guidostrunk (Oct 27, 2021)

Wes S said:


> Now I am even more confused. . .on the thread talking about my DAC which uses a 400ma fuse, we were told by the manufacturer not to use anything higher or it will blow the transformer.  Perhaps DAC's are different or at least the one I own is?


Sorry bro. I was basing my post on power supplies. It could very well be that the exact match is needed in those scenarios 😬
Edit: for instance when I had my mcth is was 1.4 amp 28v supply needed. I was able to run 5amp 28v Acopian.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Thanks for the info.  I am going to just stick with swapping fuses with the exact same rating, and not worry about damaging my precious gear (DAC and amps).  I figure the people that designed the gear, put a certain value fuse in said gear for a reason and I see no point in using a fuse with a higher rating.


Assuming that the gear which you own is designed by competent / intelligent engineers - certainly true with Pendant, Rogue, Sonnet - a fuse value (in Amperes and Volts) should / would rationally be determined by the lowest current capability present in any circuit in that component. That’s _my_ non-EE take on the matter!


----------



## G0rt

Wes S said:


> Thanks for the info.  I am going to just stick with swapping fuses with the exact same rating, and not worry about damaging my precious gear (DAC and amps).  I figure the people that designed the gear, put a certain value fuse in said gear for a reason, and I see no point in deviating from that.


Best advice. Manufacturer knows best.

Even WRT generally load independent devices like DACs, there are start up transient demands, like charging filter caps in various power supplies, which with big capacitor banks can be huge, but which don't last long. 

Hence, slow blow or timed fuses. If you know what such transient demands look like, you can spec a fast blow fuse comfortably higher than that, but lower than what would toast something sensitive, like a rectifier, which is usually over specified anyway.

Current before a tranny, where most fuses are, is typically different than after, so you have to do the math.


----------



## TK16

What's up fellows had some personal issues going on a wasn't listening to my rig. Hope everyone is OK except for that @Guidostrunk and that @bcowen  dude and 98% of the rest of you. 😉


----------



## jonathan c

I am happy to see you posting again! The quick update is: holy grail fuses! Synergistic Research Purples, Hifi Tuning Supremes…you can count the fuse apostles on two maybe three fingers…


----------



## Smoothstereo

Don't forget the Beeswax fuse ! ☺️


----------



## jonathan c

P.S……I use both HFT and SRP. Real sonic benefits / rewards for the effort.!


----------



## Smoothstereo

I had great results back in the day with Isoclean fuses. But looks like today's generation of fuses are much more impressive.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> What's up fellows had some personal issues going on a wasn't listening to my rig. Hope everyone is OK except for that @Guidostrunk and that @bcowen  dude and 98% of the rest of you. 😉


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> P.S……I use both HFT and SRP. Real sonic benefits / rewards for the effort.!


Where do we get these fuses? I think Keith put something different in my MJ2 during the mod. Called it an upgrade. He made me a believer in caps and cables so I'm interested in one of these fuses. Lol


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> What's up fellows had some personal issues going on a wasn't listening to my rig. Hope everyone is OK except for that @Guidostrunk and that @bcowen  dude and 98% of the rest of you. 😉


Hope everything is ok Thomas! 🙏


----------



## bcowen (Oct 27, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> *I am happy to see you posting again!* The quick update is: holy grail fuses! Synergistic Research Purples, Hifi Tuning Supremes…you can count the fuse apostles on two maybe three fingers…


I'm 31.6% happy, 62.8% indifferent, and whatever is left would be "other" (math is hard).


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> Thanks for the info.  I am going to just stick with swapping fuses with the exact same rating, and not worry about damaging my precious gear (DAC and amps).  I figure the people that designed the gear, put a certain value fuse in said gear for a reason, and I see no point in deviating from that.


Completely agree.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> I'm 31.6% happy, 62.8% indifferent, and whatever is left would be "other."


I know that I’ve seen that 31.6% elsewhere…


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> I know that I’ve seen that 31.6% elsewhere…


If you remove the % sign, it's my IQ.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Where do we get these fuses? I think Keith put something different in my MJ2 during the mod. Called it an upgrade. He made me a believer in caps and cables so I'm interested in one of these fuses. Lol


I have purchased from VH Audio, located in Wisconsin, through their website: they have HFT, SR-P, +…


----------



## roman410

Wes S said:


> Kind of curious why you would go with the next value up with the fuse?  Seems to me you would want the exact same one, and going with one size up means that it won't blow when it's supposed to?  I have the same size SR fuse as the stock fuse in my RH-5 and it's been doing it's thing perfectly.


From my experience, nominal rated SR fuses prematurely blows ups on my equipment, during the powering on.

On my tube DAC, where original fuse was installed slow blow 500mA value, I ended up with 1A value SR orange fuse(500mA, 630mA and 800mA blew up). The same thing was happened with my Uptone audio JS-2 LPS, where I ended up 2 values up of nominal rating with SR orange fuse.


----------



## busseysound

jonathan c said:


> I have purchased from VH Audio, located in Wisconsin, through their website: they have HFT, SR-P, +…


That's where I just bought from.  Great customer service from Chris.


----------



## busseysound

roman410 said:


> From my experience, nominal rated SR fuses prematurely blows ups on my equipment, during the powering on.
> 
> On my tube DAC, where original fuse was installed slow blow 500mA value, I ended up with 1A value SR orange fuse(500mA, 630mA and 800mA blew up). The same thing was happened with my Uptone audio JS-2 LPS, where I ended up 2 values up of nominal rating with SR orange fuse.


Yeah Chris instructed me to go up a value as well - maybe I should have gone two?  Went up from 1.6A to 2A


----------



## jonathan c

Forget holy grail tube rolling, scratch fuse pyramiding…This is all that is needed…for us and for solid/state conversion therapists…


----------



## Wes S

Smoothstereo said:


> Don't forget the Beeswax fuse ! ☺️


I have heard that one is warm and wide, and can be too much of a good thing, so I passed on those but looked hard.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> Where do we get these fuses? I think Keith put something different in my MJ2 during the mod. Called it an upgrade. He made me a believer in caps and cables so I'm interested in one of these fuses. Lol


https://highend-electronics.com/products/synergistic-research-purple-quantum-fuses

Shipped within minutes of my order placed on a Friday, and I had my fuse on Monday.  Alfred the owner answered all my questions within minutes and was very easy to deal with, and is highly recommend by me.


----------



## Ah Clem

Wes S said:


> https://highend-electronics.com/products/synergistic-research-purple-quantum-fuses
> 
> Shipped within minutes of my order placed on a Friday, and I had my fuse on Monday.  Alfred the owner answered all my questions within minutes and was very easy to deal with, and is highly recommend by me.


Not to discourage other choices in fuses but, for anyone interested, I have found the exact, stock one.  I contacted Little Fuse to positively identify the one installed by the factory.  

I was able to obtain the exact same fuse from Mouser.

The part number is 576-0239001 MXP


----------



## bcowen (Oct 28, 2021)

Wes S said:


> https://highend-electronics.com/products/synergistic-research-purple-quantum-fuses
> 
> Shipped within minutes of my order placed on a Friday, and I had my fuse on Monday.  Alfred the owner answered all my questions within minutes and was very easy to deal with, and is highly recommend by me.


I've been a regular customer of VH Audio for a long time, and Chris has always been a pleasure to deal with.  I've also purchased a few things from Alfred over the years and have had perfect transactions every time.  I wanted a backup pair of KR 300BXLS tubes for my speaker amp a few years ago, and when I saw he was an authorized dealer it was a no-brainer to buy from him.  With tubes that pricey I'd only buy from someone that would take care of a problem if needed, and I have no doubt he would.

Now I just need to save up for the Voxactive Ampeggio's.  At 108dB sensitivity, I could get to rock concert volume levels with my phone.  I might need to save up for a couple weeks though.    

https://highend-electronics.com/products/voxative-ampeggio-due-loudspeaker-system


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Forget holy grail tube rolling, scratch fuse pyramiding…This is all that is needed…for us and for solid/state conversion therapists…


What a powerhouse!  27 whole milliwatts into 300 ohms.  Could _easily _drive the ZMF's to almost whisper levels!!


----------



## busseysound

Anyone tried ECC83's in the MJ2?  I'm considering getting some RFT or Tungsram ones


----------



## Guidostrunk

busseysound said:


> Anyone tried ECC83's in the MJ2?  I'm considering getting some RFT or Tungsram ones


I believe @TK16 has tried them before in the MJ2. Minimal volume use even on low gain. I'm still gonna try it myself though 😂

The gain is 100 on them vs 60 on ecc81


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> I believe @TK16 has tried them before in the MJ2. Minimal volume use even on low gain. I'm still gonna try it myself though 😂
> 
> The gain is 100 on them vs 60 on ecc81


I hope that the “noise floor” does not affect what you hear after it goes through 100x gain versus 60x gain…


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> I believe @TK16 has tried them before in the MJ2. Minimal volume use even on low gain. I'm still gonna try it myself though 😂
> 
> The gain is 100 on them vs 60 on ecc81


Yeah I wouldn't splurge on big $ ECC83 without trying out the cheap stuff. I got some Tesla 6CC41 with same gain that runs happily in my dac.


----------



## G0rt

IDIC: Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations. 🖖

Another glorious election day in Virginia, and I'm playing a new NOS pair of RCA 5814A's in MJ2, shiny black, ridged, crimped plates, 3x mica, support rods, square getters, the works.

Tough, military 12AU7's. If the date codes make the sense I think they make, they're from April, 1960. 

I also have a NOS pair of RCA/JRC in their original boxes that are clearly from 1959, internally identical, square gettered. And they all, to me, sound the same, in both MJ2 & VH2.

And by ''the same" I mean fabulous. Wow quiet, non microphonic and utterly neutral, like zero defect honest, transparent, clear.

And, in particular and especially, I find my planars (LCD-3f, Ananda, Sundara) and Teslas (DT-1990, DT177x) sound their actual best that way.

This morning, a fresh rip of Watercolors Blue and Ananda, with a M.A.D. Dashe Reserve Zinfandel, and I must say, I am gratified, citizen. 😁


----------



## busseysound

G0rt said:


> IDIC: Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations. 🖖
> 
> Another glorious election day in Virginia, and I'm playing a new NOS pair of RCA 5814A's in MJ2, shiny black, ridged, crimped plates, 3x mica, support rods, square getters, the works.
> 
> ...


I just recently got a pair of those exact same 5814A's minus the square getters (mine are the angled ones).  Really, really excellent tube.  I've been wow'd by the set of RFT ECC81's I recently received.  They're way better than the pair I originally had even though they're identical in construction.  I may have to look for the square getter 5814A's!


----------



## G0rt (Nov 2, 2021)

busseysound said:


> I just recently got a pair of those exact same 5814A's minus the square getters (mine are the angled ones).  Really, really excellent tube.  I've been wow'd by the set of RFT ECC81's I recently received.  They're way better than the pair I originally had even though they're identical in construction.  I may have to look for the square getter 5814A's!


I have a set with D getters, and although pre-owned, they sound much the same.

MilSpec tubes are closely specified, although generally for radio vs audio applications, so I really wouldn't expect significant variations for similar construction.

These are all computer rated, with special care taken with the cathode chemistry, and so far in my experience with this and 5965 types, require little or no burn in to sound their best.

The 5965's have a little more gain, but need too much heater current to work in MJ2, although they work fine in VH2. Nowhere near as quiet and non microphonic, but very pleasant dynamics.


----------



## watchnerd

Just dusted off my Mjolnir 2 after 4 years in the closet.

I have a box of 14 different NOS tubes to try out.

After 'playing safe' (hey, after 4 years, you never now what might explode) and starting with an EH 6922.

Now playing with Philips SQ.

Where to go from here?

Aesthetically, I wish I had a matching DAC to stack.  It looks lonely.


----------



## watchnerd

Rowethren said:


> My RFT Folded Plate Foil Getter ECC81 arrived and they look absolutely mint! Out of interest do you know how you work out the dates for these?
> 
> 
> G0rt said:
> ...



I see you guys buying ECC81.

Can those be used in the Mjolnir 2?


----------



## watchnerd

jonathan c said:


> …your Mjolnir II does _not_ have the capacitor modifications, right?….hmm….



Been away for years.

What's the capacitor mod?


----------



## Rowethren

watchnerd said:


> I see you guys buying ECC81.
> 
> Can those be used in the Mjolnir 2?


Yep but you need an adapter, these are the ones I use https://pulsetubestore.com/products...uction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china


----------



## watchnerd

Rowethren said:


> Yep but you need an adapter, these are the ones I use https://pulsetubestore.com/products/12axx-to-ecc88-adapter-plug-play-novib-©-1960s-nos-british-mcmurdo-phenolic-socket-on-top-plus-vibration-reduction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china



Thanks.

Maybe I'll just hold off on more tubes for now, given I have like 14 pairs...


----------



## jonathan c

watchnerd said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Maybe I'll just hold off on more tubes for now, given I have like 14 pairs...


Just 14 pairs…you are far from being a tube Imelda Marcos!…


----------



## watchnerd

jonathan c said:


> Just 14 pairs…you are far from being a tube Imelda Marcos!…



I miscounted.  14 pairs of NOS tubes.

16 pairs if you count the 2 pairs of current production EH & JJ.


----------



## bcowen

watchnerd said:


> I miscounted.  14 pairs of NOS tubes.
> 
> 16 pairs if you count the 2 pairs of current production EH & JJ.


Well, like you said.....14 pairs of _good_ tubes.


----------



## watchnerd

I know this is probably an unorthodox question for a tube hybrid, but....

What's the likelihood of successfully using the Mjolnir 2 with Audeze headphones, given their very low (15-20 ohm) impedance?

The output impedance (1 ohm on high gain, 0.3 ohm low gain) suggests it might be possible.

Anyone have any experience or insights?


----------



## jonathan c

watchnerd said:


> I know this is probably an unorthodox question for a tube hybrid, but....
> 
> What's the likelihood of successfully using the Mjolnir 2 with Audeze headphones, given their very low (15-20 ohm) impedance?
> 
> ...


Not only possible but will be fantastic! I did own Mjolnir II and still own Audeze LCD-X (2016 vintage). Together, they were 👍.


----------



## watchnerd

jonathan c said:


> Not only possible but will be fantastic! I did own Mjolnir II and still own Audeze LCD-X (2016 vintage). Together, they were 👍.



Thanks for your reply.

Did you use any EQ upstream of the LCD-X?


----------



## jonathan c (Nov 9, 2021)

watchnerd said:


> Thanks for your reply.
> 
> Did you use any EQ upstream of the LCD-X?


I do not use EQ at all…for the LCD-X (or for the ten other hp in the ‘stable’)…🤷🏻


----------



## watchnerd

Just tried some Tungsram NOS tubes in the Mjolnir 2.

Pretty decent once they got properly warmed up.


----------



## jonathan c

watchnerd said:


> Just tried some Tungsram NOS tubes in the Mjolnir 2.
> Pretty decent once they got properly warmed up.


What were they? I have ‘rolled’ Tungsram ECC81 in Woo WA2…very fine!


----------



## shafat777

Hello, new to this thread. I just purchased a MJ2 from a fellow headfier in order to directly compare to my cap modded LP. I was wondering if anyone has tried to use 12au7 tubes using adapters with the MJ2? My LP has transformed into somewhat of a giant killer ever since I switched to 12au7 tubes. 

Can anyone please shed some lights between the LP and Mj2? I would really appreciate it.


----------



## watchnerd (Nov 9, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> What were they? I have ‘rolled’ Tungsram ECC81 in Woo WA2…very fine!



E88CC

Gold lettering and a cyrillic language spec sheet in the box.


----------



## watchnerd

shafat777 said:


> Hello, new to this thread. I just purchased a MJ2 from a fellow headfier in order to directly compare to my cap modded LP. I was wondering if anyone has tried to use 12au7 tubes using adapters with the MJ2? My LP has transformed into somewhat of a giant killer ever since I switched to 12au7 tubes.
> 
> Can anyone please shed some lights between the LP and Mj2? I would really appreciate it.



12AU7 is 12 volts vs the 6 volts of 6DJ8/6922.

On a 12AU7 pin 4 and 5 are the 12volt heaters.

On a 6DJ8 pin 4 and 5 are 6.3v heaters.

Without a way to adjust bias, that seems a bit dodgy.

I wouldn't expect the circuit to work correctly, but in a hybrid, one never knows.


----------



## shafat777

watchnerd said:


> 12AU7 is 12 volts vs the 6 volts of 6DJ8/6922.
> 
> On a 12AU7 pin 4 and 5 are the 12volt heaters.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the info. the 12au7 adapters work well with the LP which also takes 6dj8 / 6922 tubes just like the MJ2 so i am wondering why it might not work with MJ2..


----------



## jonathan c (Nov 9, 2021)

shafat777 said:


> Hello, new to this thread. I just purchased a MJ2 from a fellow headfier in order to directly compare to my cap modded LP. I was wondering if anyone has tried to use 12au7 tubes using adapters with the MJ2? My LP has transformed into somewhat of a giant killer ever since I switched to 12au7 tubes.
> 
> Can anyone please shed some lights between the LP and Mj2? I would really appreciate it.


12AU7 (ECC82 in Europe) will be fine in MJ2. 12AT7 (ECC81 in Europe) will be even better in MJ2; amplification factors for the ‘AU7’ and the ‘AT7’ are 20x and 60x respectively. When I owned MJ2, I quickly moved from 6922-type tubes to 12AT7s. Of these, for me, the pinnacles were/are Brimar CV455 KB/FB d-getter and RFT ECC81 foil getter. The thread on the Mjolnir is _filled _with tube commentary. Summer 2021 was/is the summer of Footscray! _Note: _while using the Brimar/RFT, my MJ2 was capacitor-modded by @ksorota 🥇! It is light-years beyond the capacitor-modded LP. Fellow Head-Fier @Guidostrunk will fervently attest to this. If your MJ2 capacitors are of the stock variety, have them swapped out. In the meantime, enjoy; thereafter, _really enjoy!_


----------



## shafat777

jonathan c said:


> 12AU7 (ECC82 in Europe) will be fine in MJ2. 12AT7 (ECC81 in Europe) will be even better in MJ2; amplification factors for the ‘AU7’ and the ‘AT7’ are 20x and 60x respectively. -type tubes to 12AT7s. Of these, for me the pinnacles were/are Brimar CV455 KB/FB d-getter and RFT ECC81 foil getter. The thread on the Mjolnir is _filled _with tube commentary. Summer 2021 was/is the summer of Footscray! _Note: _while using the Brimar/RFT, my MJ2 was capacitor-modded by @ksorota 🥇! It is light-years beyond the capacitor-modded LP. Fellow Head-Fier @Guidostrunk will fervently attest to this. If your MJ2 capacitors are of the stock variety, have them swapped out. In the meantime, enjoy; thereafter, _really enjoy!_


Thank you for the reply brother man. I was hoping someone would give me the good news. I would hate to have to buy new set of tubes for the MJ2 when i am thoroughly enjoying my set of Brimar 12au7 tubes with the LP. 

As for the cap mod, I might hit up Keith. That dude is a god-send and its because of his work, i have yet to discard my LP and will most likely still hold onto it even after the MJ2 arrives.


----------



## jonathan c

watchnerd said:


> E88CC. Gold lettering and a cyrillic language spec sheet in the box.


Those are a 6922-type tube and the Tungsram E88CC are my favourite of that type. I actively ‘roll’ those (w/out adapters) in my Schiit Valhalla II.


----------



## bcowen

watchnerd said:


> 12AU7 is 12 volts vs the 6 volts of 6DJ8/6922.
> 
> On a 12AU7 pin 4 and 5 are the 12volt heaters.
> 
> ...


A proper adapter would utilize pin 9 (along with 4 and 5) to connect the heaters of the 12AU7 in parallel for 6.3v operation. For 12.6v operation, pin 9 is not utilized. The 12A*7 family was designed to work properly at either 6.3v or 12.6v on the heaters.


----------



## watchnerd (Nov 10, 2021)

shafat777 said:


> Thank you for the info. the 12au7 adapters work well with the LP which also takes 6dj8 / 6922 tubes just like the MJ2 so i am wondering why it might not work with MJ2..




It might work (i.e. function), but for what purpose?

For this purpose, I'm not sure substituting a 12AU7 tube improves the circuit or operating parameters of the tube.


----------



## watchnerd (Nov 10, 2021)

bcowen said:


> A proper adapter would utilize pin 9 (along with 4 and 5) to connect the heaters of the 12AU7 in parallel for 6.3v operation. For 12.6v operation, pin 9 is not utilized. The 12A*7 family was designed to work properly at either 6.3v or 12.6v on the heaters.



But I'm not sure why one would bother?

The distortion level of the 12AU7 is generally higher compared to the 6922, as documented in Jones' _Building Valve Amplifiers_.

12AU7 NOS tubes do have the virtue of often being cheaper than 6922 types, though.


----------



## watchnerd (Nov 10, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Those are a 6922-type tube and the Tungsram E88CC are my favourite of that type. I actively ‘roll’ those (w/out adapters) in my Schiit Valhalla II.



Yeah, I like them a lot, too.

I have 2 NOS pairs.

There is supposed to be some difference between the gold (industrial) and red (military) lettering, although I'm not sure what.

I should really pick up some more.


----------



## Wes S

watchnerd said:


> But I'm not sure why one would bother?
> 
> The distortion level of the 12AU7 is generally higher compared to the 6922, as documented in Jones' _Building Valve Amplifiers_.
> 
> 12AU7 NOS tubes do have the virtue of often being cheaper than 6922 types, though.


So that's why every 12AU7 sounds better than any 6922 I have ever heard.  I am guessing myself and most others in this thread must like distortion.  Seriously though having sold off my entire 6922 collection, I don't miss them one bit knowing I still have my 12AU7's.

I would give them a try, and you might just be surprised how amazing they sound.  Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Guidostrunk

shafat777 said:


> Thank you for the reply brother man. I was hoping someone would give me the good news. I would hate to have to buy new set of tubes for the MJ2 when i am thoroughly enjoying my set of Brimar 12au7 tubes with the LP.
> 
> As for the cap mod, I might hit up Keith. That dude is a god-send and its because of his work, i have yet to discard my LP and will most likely still hold onto it even after the MJ2 arrives.


You're open to a whole new realm of tubes bro. The 12at7/ecc81 in which the LP can not use. The stock MJ2 handily beats the modded LP. Once you mod the MJ2 , the Kraken is released 😂

Welcome to the thread bro.


----------



## Wes S (Nov 10, 2021)

Page 420, wow this thread has been rocking for a long time.  Speaking of 420. . . it's that time somewhere.


----------



## watchnerd

Wes S said:


> So that's why every 12AU7 sounds better than any 6922 I have ever heard.  I am guessing myself and most others in this thread must like distortion.  Seriously though having sold off my entire 6922 collection, I don't miss them one bit knowing I still have my 12AU7's.
> 
> I would give them a try, and you might just be surprised how amazing they sound.  Just my 2 cents.



Maybe I'll try after I use up all my 6922's, which should take a few years.


----------



## Wes S

watchnerd said:


> Maybe I'll try after I use up all my 6922's, which should take a few years.


I had the same thought a couple of years ago, and then I came to my senses and took the advice of everyone else this thread.  It's funny how we can convince ourselves not to try new things while being content with mediocrity.


----------



## watchnerd (Nov 10, 2021)

Wes S said:


> I had the same thought a couple of years ago, and then I came to my senses and took the advice of everyone else this thread.  It's funny how we can convince ourselves not to try new things while being content with mediocrity.



I spend under <10% of my time listening to headphones and I have 14 pairs of NOS 6922's to grind through.

I'm okay with 'good enough' given how little I listen to cans.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Page 420, wow this thread has been rocking for a long time.  Speaking of 420. . . it's that time somewhere.


Add one to that and it’s classic Western Electric time 🤪…


----------



## jonathan c (Nov 10, 2021)

Wes S said:


> I had the same thought a couple of years ago, and then I came to my senses and took the advice of everyone else this thread.  It's funny how we can convince ourselves not to try new things while being content with mediocrity.


Then we become HeadFiers / tuberos / tuberas…..we convince ourselves not to try _buy_ new things gear & tubes while _not_ being content with mediocrity excellence…🤪…😒…💸…


----------



## watchnerd

jonathan c said:


> Then we become HeadFiers / tuberos / tuberas…..we convince ourselves not to try _buy_ new things gear & tubes while _not_ being content with mediocrity excellence…🤪…😒…💸…



My NOS Telefunken / Philips / Siemens / Tungsram 6922s are seeming pretty excellent in the Mjolnir 2.

There comes a point where I'd rather listen to music.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> So that's why every 12AU7 sounds better than any 6922 I have heard.





Wes S said:


> I would give them a try, and you might just be surprised how amazing they sound.  Just my *12 *cents.


FTFY…[Reg. TM; © bcowen: 2021]


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> Add one to that and it’s classic Western Electric time 🤪…


That's one tube I always wanted to hear when I had my BHC.  Nice!


----------



## Wes S

jonathan c said:


> Then we become HeadFiers / tuberos / tuberas…..we convince ourselves not to try _buy_ new things gear & tubes while _not_ being content with mediocrity excellence…🤪…😒…💸…


There is definitely a fine balance between the two, and it takes one to get to the other.  It's always greener. . .


----------



## watchnerd

Wes S said:


> There is definitely a fine balance between the two, and it takes one to get to the other.  It's always greener. . .



My tube collection + Mjolnir 2 are already worth more than my headphones.

I think I'm off balance.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> There is definitely a fine balance between the two, and it takes one to get to the other.  It's always greener. . .


…meanwhile, the wallet becomes less green…😯🤷🏻💸…


----------



## watchnerd

jonathan c said:


> …meanwhile, the wallet becomes less green…😯🤷🏻💸…



And that makes wife frown


----------



## shafat777

Guidostrunk said:


> You're open to a whole new realm of tubes bro. The 12at7/ecc81 in which the LP can not use. The stock MJ2 handily beats the modded LP. Once you mod the MJ2 , the Kraken is released 😂
> 
> Welcome to the thread bro.


if thats the case, then i think you fellas will most likely see my cap modded LP over in the classifieds soon. My only gripe with the MJ2 that i ll be receiving soon is the color silver. everything else in my chain is black or dark grey....

Also, i will most likely bug you and WES S regarding tube rolling once i get my MJ2. Be prepared to reply to my messages during late hours.


----------



## Guidostrunk

shafat777 said:


> if thats the case, then i think you fellas will most likely see my cap modded LP over in the classifieds soon. My only gripe with the MJ2 that i ll be receiving soon is the color silver. everything else in my chain is black or dark grey....
> 
> Also, i will most likely bug you and WES S regarding tube rolling once i get my MJ2. Be prepared to reply to my messages during late hours.


We got you bro! I didn't let you down when I sold you a pair of 7730 for the LP 😁


----------



## watchnerd

shafat777 said:


> if thats the case, then i think you fellas will most likely see my cap modded LP over in the classifieds soon. My only gripe with the MJ2 that i ll be receiving soon is the color silver. everything else in my chain is black or dark grey....



Cerakote it!


----------



## shafat777

Guidostrunk said:


> We got you bro! I didn't let you down when I sold you a pair of 7730 for the LP 😁


Nope you didnt.  I still got those and i plan on using them with the MJ2


----------



## Guidostrunk

shafat777 said:


> Nope you didnt.  I still got those and i plan on using them with the MJ2


When I see more rft ecc81 foil getters pop up I'll let you know. They're 7730's on steroids x 10 😂


----------



## bcowen

watchnerd said:


> But I'm not sure why one would bother?
> 
> The distortion level of the 12AU7 is generally higher compared to the 6922, as documented in Jones' _Building Valve Amplifiers_.
> 
> 12AU7 NOS tubes do have the virtue of often being cheaper than 6922 types, though.


If lowest measurable distortion is the only goal, then a solid-state amp would be a better choice.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> When I see more rft ecc81 foil getters pop up I'll let you know. They're 7730's on steroids x 10 😂


I will add: _everything _comes through the RFT ECC81s with seemingly _no effort._ Despite the connotation of ‘guido steroids’, the RFTs do not break a sweat in the midst of the music!


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> If lowest measurable distortion is the only goal, then a solid-state amp would be a better choice.


Note that even Jason Stoddard of Schiit Audio remarked that he could build an amplifier with “zero” distortion but that “it would sound terrible”. (JS words)


----------



## shafat777

@Guidostrunk 

Would a 12au7 to 6922 adapter (the one i use for LP) work with the rft ecc81 tubes you raving about?


----------



## G0rt

shafat777 said:


> @Guidostrunk
> 
> Would a 12au7 to 6922 adapter (the one i use for LP) work with the rft ecc81 tubes you raving about?


Yup


----------



## watchnerd (Nov 10, 2021)

bcowen said:


> If lowest measurable distortion is the only goal, then a solid-state amp would be a better choice.



Indeed, luckily we have LISST tubes for that, too.

There is a spectrum of flavors you can operate along with the MJ2, from minimal to moderate to heavier distortion, depending on what you stuff in the socket.


----------



## busseysound (Nov 10, 2021)

shafat777 said:


> @Guidostrunk
> 
> Would a 12au7 to 6922 adapter (the one i use for LP) work with the rft ecc81 tubes you raving about?


Almost positive it would, as those adapters usually work for 12AT7, 12AU7 both.  I'll add to the others about the RFT ECC81.  I was using the ECC82 for awhile but after the ECC81 broke in - wow.  It is absolutely effortless.  Clarity is crazy good in them.  I need to make another tube rolling post having experimented with a few more different pairs.  I have a couple more to try (haven't come in yet) then hopefully I can put together part 2 of my tube rolling adventure!


----------



## bcowen

busseysound said:


> Almost positive it would, as those adapters usually work for 12AT7, 12AU7 both.  I'll add to the others about the RFT ECC81.  I was using the ECC82 for awhile but after the ECC81 broke in - wow.  It is absolutely effortless.  Clarity is crazy good in them.  I need to make another tube rolling post having experimented with a few more different pairs.  I have a couple more to try (haven't come in yet) then hopefully I can put together part 2 of my tube rolling adventure!


The 12AU7, 12AT7, and 12AX7 all have the same pinout and heater wiring scheme, so an adapter labeled with any of the 3 will work into a 6922 socket.


----------



## Wes S

The state of things as an avid tube roller, where the tubes soon to get rolled are ready on deck.      Gonna be a fun long holiday weekend.  Happy Veterans Day to all those who served!

Which one is next . .  .


----------



## watchnerd

Wes S said:


> The state of things as an avid tube roller, where the tubes soon to get rolled are ready on deck.      Gonna be a fun long holiday weekend.  Happy Veterans Day to all those who served!
> 
> Which one is next . .  .



Nice!

What was in the big Valvo '1961' box?


----------



## bcowen

Wes S said:


> The state of things as an avid tube roller, where the tubes soon to get rolled are ready on deck.      Gonna be a fun long holiday weekend.  Happy Veterans Day to all those who served!
> 
> Which one is next . .  .


I think you should send all of them to me to be tested.  Some of them look a little iffy.


----------



## watchnerd

bcowen said:


> I think you should send all of them to me to be tested.  Some of them look a little iffy.



Do you have a tube tester?

I've thought of getting one....


----------



## shafat777

@Wes S 

Plz ignore @bcowen and just send them to me. I will test them for you for free. But i cant promise ALL of them will be returned to you. Some might go missing during shipment.


----------



## bcowen

watchnerd said:


> Do you have a tube tester?
> 
> I've thought of getting one....


Yup.  Only a couple right now though.


----------



## bcowen

shafat777 said:


> @Wes S
> 
> Plz ignore @bcowen and just send them to me. I will test them for you for free. But i cant promise ALL of them will be returned to you. Some might go missing during shipment.


I don't remember saying anything about a fee for the service, but since you had to up the ante with the "free" word I'll not only test them at no charge but I'll throw away all the bad ones...for free.  I'm sure at least 75% of them are duds.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> The state of things as an avid tube roller, where the tubes soon to get rolled are ready on deck.      Gonna be a fun long holiday weekend.  Happy Veterans Day to all those who served!
> 
> Which one is next . .  .


All those tubes standing at attention, waiting for the next command from Wes…just don’t expect “at ease!”…


----------



## shafat777

is there any SQ difference or compromise betwwen the single ended and balanced input of the MJ2. i am using my gsx mini and mj2 with my yggy so im trying to decide which amp should get the balanced (xlr) and which one gets single (rca)


----------



## watchnerd (Nov 12, 2021)

shafat777 said:


> is there any SQ difference or compromise betwwen the single ended and balanced input of the MJ2. i am using my gsx mini and mj2 with my yggy so im trying to decide which amp should get the balanced (xlr) and which one gets single (rca)



The balanced output has more power and measurably lower distortion.

Subjectively, it also has better channel separation, although I haven't seen that tested.

There is some allusion in the Schiit commentary that going all-balanced from input-to-output is also better due to simpler signal path, but I can't say I've noticed as a big a difference on the input side.


----------



## shafat777

I am aware of the balanced OUTPUT because it has more power. I use balanced out for all of my HP. I want to know about the inputs. My gsx mini topology allows to use single or balanced input without losing any sound quality. Same with LIquid platinum amp. These amps produce the same quality whether being feed via rca or XLR. So i m wondering the same about my Mj2.


----------



## watchnerd

shafat777 said:


> I am aware of the balanced OUTPUT because it has more power. I use balanced out for all of my HP. I want to know about the inputs. My gsx mini topology allows to use single or balanced input without losing any sound quality. Same with LIquid platinum amp. These amps produce the same quality whether being feed via rca or XLR. So i m wondering the same about my Mj2.



Perhaps you missed this:

"There is some allusion in the Schiit commentary that going all-balanced from input-to-output is also better due to simpler signal path, but I can't say I've noticed as a big a difference on the input side."


----------



## watchnerd

What's the general consensus on socket savers with the Mjolnir 2?

How many of you are using them?

I have to admit the MJ2 is one of the more annoying amps I have for tube rolling when it comes to actually getting the tubes out.


----------



## shafat777

After hearing the MJ2 for 4 hours, i have decided to list my Cap modded LP in the classifieds.


----------



## roman410

watchnerd said:


> What's the general consensus on socket savers with the Mjolnir 2?
> 
> How many of you are using them?
> 
> I have to admit the MJ2 is one of the more annoying amps I have for tube rolling when it comes to actually getting the tubes out.


I am using this one's https://pulsetubestore.com/products...uction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china

This is my second pair. If you intensively rolling tubes, I will say you must have them. They not only save your sockets from wear but also let the rolling tubes much easier. Because tube socket savers rise tubes out from MJ2, amplifier running on much lower temperature.


----------



## watchnerd

roman410 said:


> I am using this one's https://pulsetubestore.com/products/plug-play-novib-socket-saver©-1960s-nos-british-mcmurdo-phenolic-socket-on-top-plus-vibration-reduction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china
> 
> This is my second pair. If you intensively rolling tubes, I will say you must have them. They not only save your sockets from wear but also let the rolling tubes much easier. Because tube socket savers rise tubes out from MJ2, amplifier running on much lower temperature.



I have one of those as well, but I haven't installed it.

What happened to your first pair of socket savers?

I would have thought they would last forever.


----------



## roman410

watchnerd said:


> I have one of those as well, but I haven't installed it.
> 
> What happened to your first pair of socket savers?
> 
> I would have thought they would last forever.


Nothing, except slightly discoloring probably from excessive heat.
Bought second pair for use on my tube DAC, but that will require to mode the cover, and until this time that never happens.


----------



## watchnerd

'I was reading about the Schiit Vali, which also uses 6922 tubes, and noted that Schiit says:

"including 6DJ8, 6922, ECC88, 2492, 6N1P,* 6CG7*and even more. Pretty much any tube with a 6DJ8 pinout, 6V heater, and 600mA or less of heater current will work fine."

Has anyone tried a 6CG7 in the MJ2?


----------



## Guidostrunk

watchnerd said:


> 'I was reading about the Schiit Vali, which also uses 6922 tubes, and noted that Schiit says:
> 
> "including 6DJ8, 6922, ECC88, 2492, 6N1P,* 6CG7*and even more. Pretty much any tube with a 6DJ8 pinout, 6V heater, and 600mA or less of heater current will work fine."
> 
> Has anyone tried a 6CG7 in the MJ2?


400ma max on MJ2. What is the 6cg7?


----------



## watchnerd

Guidostrunk said:


> 400ma max on MJ2. What is the 6cg7?



https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/127/6/6CG7.pdf


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> 400ma max on MJ2. What is the 6cg7?


600ma.


----------



## watchnerd

I'm due for a headphone upgrade, and have a chunk of RSUs maturing on 11/30.

Does anyone have experience using the MJ2 with Focal Stellia?

I can't see any reason why it shouldn't be a good combination.


----------



## TK16

What's up guys? Haven't listened to tunes for several weeks. That changed this weekend and today. Noticed some new members in the thread, been tube rolling and got to add that the ECC81, 6201, 7316, ECC82 variants are clearly superior the the best ECC88 variants and I've heard some of the best from all these variants. If your on the fence about tubes that need an adapter I'd give them a shot.


----------



## shafat777

TK16 said:


> What's up guys? Haven't listened to tunes for several weeks. That changed this weekend and today. Noticed some new members in the thread, been tube rolling and got to add that the ECC81, 6201, 7316, ECC82 variants are clearly superior the the best ECC88 variants and I've heard some of the best from all these variants. If your on the fence about tubes that need an adapter I'd give them a shot.


I joined the MJ2 club this past saturday and honestly, i couldn't be happier. Currently i am running a set of 12au7 tubes using the adapter and it sounds wonderful, but based on the extensive research of Guidostrunk and Wes S, i have a pair of RFT ecc81 tubes on the way and Ive been told these tubes are killer. Cant wait to roll these and join the conversation.


----------



## bcowen

shafat777 said:


> I joined the MJ2 club this past saturday and honestly, i couldn't be happier. Currently i am running a set of 12au7 tubes using the adapter and it sounds wonderful, but based on the extensive research of Guidostrunk and Wes S, i have a pair of RFT ecc81 tubes on the way and Ive been told these tubes are killer. Cant wait to roll these and join the conversation.


Congrats on the amp!  But condolences to your wallet from here on out.


----------



## shafat777

bcowen said:


> Congrats on the amp!  But condolences to your wallet from here on out.


LOL thanks bud. Lucky for me, i have two perfectly functioning kidney that i can let go for @Wes S stash of tubes. One of the members here is sending me his RFT ecc81 tubes so hopefully that should take care of the tube search for now. Wes also mentioned a few of them to keep as backup so My wallet will survive hopefully (although black Friday is coming up). 

Now i might actually focus on the cables and interconnects. Is there any difference between runnning single ended *input* vs balanced, other than volume level? I have to connect either my gsx mini or mj2 via xlr balaned and the other rca single ended. Any thoughts?


----------



## bcowen

shafat777 said:


> LOL thanks bud. Lucky for me, i have two perfectly functioning kidney that i can let go for @Wes S stash of tubes. One of the members here is sending me his RFT ecc81 tubes so hopefully that should take care of the tube search for now. Wes also mentioned a few of them to keep as backup so My wallet will survive hopefully (although black Friday is coming up).
> 
> Now i might actually focus on the cables and interconnects. Is there any difference between runnning single ended *input* vs balanced, other than volume level? I have to connect either my gsx mini or mj2 via xlr balaned and the other rca single ended. Any thoughts?


Hopefully some others will chime in on the XLR's.  I'm single-ended only, so can't offer anything worthwhile.

Just don't forget the backups for the backups before you go splurging on cables.


----------



## Slade01

bcowen said:


> Congrats on the amp!  But condolences to your wallet from here on out.


I fear if @Guidostrunk , @Wes S and company hype up tubes for another unicorn type tube amp.  Wallets will surely explode!


----------



## bcowen

Slade01 said:


> I fear if @Guidostrunk , @Wes S and company hype up tubes for another unicorn type tube amp.  Wallets will surely explode!


Those two are trouble.  I've been warning everyone for years.


----------



## Slade01

bcowen said:


> Those two are trouble.  I've been warning everyone for years.


Yeah.  They made me a 12au7/adapter junkie back when I was on liquid platinum.  Lol.   I'm now looking into the MJ2 train.


----------



## Slade01

shafat777 said:


> Now i might actually focus on the cables and interconnects. Is there any difference between runnning single ended *input* vs balanced, other than volume level? I have to connect either my gsx mini or mj2 via xlr balaned and the other rca single ended. Any thoughts?


Doesn't it make more sense to plug balanced - the amp that you usually pair up with your most power hungry cans?


----------



## shafat777

Slade01 said:


> Doesn't it make more sense to plug balanced - the amp that you usually pair up with your most power hungry cans?


Well, i also need to connect my gsx mini. but the mini is balanced from start to finish and apparently doesnt lose any sq when single ended input is used. I would like to know the same for the MJ2 if anyone can provide. My LP was the exact same way, the SE input converts to balanced without any loss in sq. Otherwise I m gonna do as you suggested, run the mj2 balanded input while the mini gets the SE.


----------



## watchnerd

Just plugged these in for tonight's late night headphone listening session in the Mjolnir 2.


----------



## Guidostrunk

shafat777 said:


> LOL thanks bud. Lucky for me, i have two perfectly functioning kidney that i can let go for @Wes S stash of tubes. One of the members here is sending me his RFT ecc81 tubes so hopefully that should take care of the tube search for now. Wes also mentioned a few of them to keep as backup so My wallet will survive hopefully (although black Friday is coming up).
> 
> Now i might actually focus on the cables and interconnects. Is there any difference between runnning single ended *input* vs balanced, other than volume level? I have to connect either my gsx mini or mj2 via xlr balaned and the other rca single ended. Any thoughts?


Balanced all the way with MJ2.


----------



## Guidostrunk

shafat777 said:


> Well, i also need to connect my gsx mini. but the mini is balanced from start to finish and apparently doesnt lose any sq when single ended input is used. I would like to know the same for the MJ2 if anyone can provide. My LP was the exact same way, the SE input converts to balanced without any loss in sq. Otherwise I m gonna do as you suggested, run the mj2 balanded input while the mini gets the SE.


The MJ2 is a different design than the LP. Use the single ended inputs for the mini.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Slade01 said:


> I fear if @Guidostrunk , @Wes S and company hype up tubes for another unicorn type tube amp.  Wallets will surely explode!


😂😂😂


----------



## shafat777

Just swapped the stock power cable for a pangea AC-14XL power cable and immediately noticed improved clarity in the top end and overall cleaner presentation.


----------



## busseysound

shafat777 said:


> Just swapped the stock power cable for a pangea AC-14XL power cable and immediately noticed improved clarity in the top end and overall cleaner presentation.


Yep per Wes's suggestion I did that with the Gumby and MJ2 (AC-14XL for Gumby and AC-9 for MJ2) and noticed a difference.  As the overall gear gets better you can hear the differences that each upgrade makes in the signal path.


----------



## watchnerd

Dumb socket saver question:

Whenever I pull my socket-saver mounted tubes out, the socket saver comes with it.

Which would sort of seem to defeat the purpose.

Does the same happen to you guys?


----------



## bcowen

shafat777 said:


> Just swapped the stock power cable for a pangea AC-14XL power cable and immediately noticed improved clarity in the top end and overall cleaner presentation.


Oh, please.  Cables don't make any difference.

(until they're fully cooked.    )


----------



## jonathan c (Nov 18, 2021)

Slade01 said:


> I fear if @Guidostrunk , @Wes S and company hype up tubes for another unicorn type tube amp.  Wallets will surely explode!


Do you not mean implode?….the $$$ are 💸 away…what’s left is leather & bone…


----------



## watchnerd

Do any of you guys know if an E288CC will work in the MJ2?

Specs here:

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_e288cc.html

It seems like it should, but perhaps I'm overlooking something.


----------



## jonathan c

watchnerd said:


> Do any of you guys know if an E288CC will work in the MJ2?
> 
> Specs here:
> 
> ...


It is too “hot”. The E288CC filament (heater) current is 475 mA; the 6922 / E88CC filament (heater) current is 300 mA.


----------



## watchnerd (Nov 21, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> It is too “hot”. The E288CC filament (heater) current is 475 mA; the 6922 / E88CC filament (heater) current is 300 mA.



Yeah, I just noticed that, too.

I believe the MJ2 requires <400.

Although I thought 6DJ8 was 365 mA

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6dj8.html


----------



## watchnerd (Nov 22, 2021)

I was watching some interview with Jason Stoddard the other day, and I could swear that he said that the MJ2's high gain is open loop, with less feedback, than low gain.

He seems to say in high gain it sounds more tubey, but in low gain it sounds more neutral.

At about 19:00 mark:



Has anyone else run across this before or know where I can find out more?


----------



## TK16

HDTrack.com has a sale with this code. Up to $50 off $175 purchase and some lesser discounts based on cost.
HDGIVINGTHANKS


----------



## evanescent

watchnerd said:


> I was watching some interview with Jason Stoddard the other day, and I could swear that he said that the MJ2's high gain is open loop, with less feedback, than low gain.


Google  schiit mjolnir "zero feedback"

Zero global feedback was a big deal 10 years ago..


----------



## watchnerd

evanescent said:


> Google  schiit mjolnir "zero feedback"
> 
> Zero global feedback was a big deal 10 years ago..



I can find references that the MJ1 had a zero feedback design, but I'm not clear if that was dropped in the MJ2.

Also, Jason seemed to imply it changes between high and low gain.


----------



## evanescent

watchnerd said:


> I can find references that the MJ1 had a zero feedback design, but I'm not clear if that was dropped in the MJ2.
> 
> Also, Jason seemed to imply it changes between high and low gain.


MJ2 is a revamped MJ1.. there's a long post by Jason about the changes and it retains the zero global feedback design.

Zero feedback is for high gain. Low gain is implemented by introducing global feedback.


----------



## jonathan c (Nov 29, 2021)

For those Mjolnirers (or other Schiiters) who partied (and are still going strong) with the Footscrays in summer 2021 like it was 1956/7, some good news:


----------



## gumisb

watchnerd said:


> I can find references that the MJ1 had a zero feedback design, but I'm not clear if that was dropped in the MJ2.
> 
> Also, Jason seemed to imply it changes between high and low gain.



Evidently feedback in low gain helps to suppress distortions.


----------



## watchnerd (Nov 29, 2021)

gumisb said:


> Evidently feedback in low gain helps to suppress distortions.



Lowering distortion, and noise, is the main goal of feedback, yes.

On the flip side, it may diminish audibility of differences between tubes.


----------



## jonathan c (Nov 29, 2021)

Unfortunately, the brown line in each graph depicts my interest in the rest of each graph 😜…


----------



## watchnerd

jonathan c said:


> Unfortunately, the brown line in each graph depicts my interest in the rest of each graph 😜…



Steady state fundamental level of interest?


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> For those Mjolnirers (or other Schiiters) who partied (and are still going strong) with the Footscrays in summer 2021 like it was CV455, some good news:


That's awesome bro!


----------



## billerb1 (Nov 29, 2021)

SOOOOOO awesome !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Thanks for the update Jonathan.  Will get a note off to him today myself.


----------



## evanescent

jonathan c said:


> Unfortunately, the brown line in each graph depicts my interest in the rest of each graph 😜…


Then you should be fascinated by MJ2+LISST or any other solid state amp..


----------



## watchnerd

evanescent said:


> Then you should be fascinated by MJ2+LISST or any other solid state amp..



When you guys talk about the brown line, are you talking about the noise floor line?


----------



## jonathan c (Nov 29, 2021)

watchnerd said:


> When you guys talk about the brown line, are you talking about the noise floor line?


When it comes to distortion graphs, the brown line is my EKG plot 🤪😆🤪😆…


----------



## watchnerd

jonathan c said:


> When it comes to distortion graphs, the brown line is my EKG plot 🤪😆🤪😆…



But there are two brown lines.

And one of them is flatlining....


----------



## jonathan c

watchnerd said:


> But there are two brown lines.
> 
> And one of them is flatlining....


That is the one….👍👍👍


----------



## watchnerd

watchnerd said:


> But there are two brown lines.
> 
> And one of them is flatlining....



HAR!

BTW, where did the graph come from?


----------



## jonathan c

watchnerd said:


> HAR!
> 
> BTW, where did the graph come from?


The graph fairy left it…


----------



## gumisb

watchnerd said:


> HAR!
> 
> BTW, where did the graph come from?


I took those measurements on my mj2.
Feedback helps alot with power noise, 50Hz and harmonics 150Hz and 250Hz are elevated and clearly visible on next graph.


----------



## watchnerd

gumisb said:


> I took those measurements on my mj2.
> Feedback helps alot with power noise, 50Hz and harmonics 150Hz and 250Hz are elevated and clearly visible on next graph.



I'm surprised 2nd is lower than 3rd and 5th.

Curious what tubes you were using?


----------



## gumisb

watchnerd said:


> I'm surprised 2nd is lower than 3rd and 5th.
> 
> Curious what tubes you were using?


Tesla ECC88 with gold pins.


----------



## watchnerd

gumisb said:


> Tesla ECC88 with gold pins.



Interesting...I've got a pair of those, too.

They might not be my quietest, but they're not one of my noisier tubes.


----------



## gumisb

watchnerd said:


> Interesting...I've got a pair of those, too.
> 
> They might not be my quietest, but they're not one of my noisier tubes.


I just switched to S4A E88CC for check. Noise level on high gain is quite similar but 2nd and 3rd  harmonics are more or less equal. Raised 3rd H maybe caused by my rig.
More or less from my perspective you have to have amazing tubes and perfect power source to get closer to low gain performance in aspect of resolution, clarity, soundstage, etc. High gain wins in flow, musicality. Feedback on low gain is not perfect solution but looks as better compromise.


----------



## watchnerd

gumisb said:


> I just switched to S4A E88CC for check. Noise level on high gain is quite similar but 2nd and 3rd  harmonics are more or less equal. Raised 3rd H maybe caused by my rig.
> More or less from my perspective you have to have amazing tubes and perfect power source to get closer to low gain performance in aspect of resolution, clarity, soundstage, etc. High gain wins in flow, musicality. Feedback on low gain is not perfect solution but looks as better compromise.



Interesting.  Do you know who makes the S4A for BTB?  Because it's almost certainly a rebranded JJ, Russian, or Shuguang tube.

The 2nd & 3rd harmonics on the graph similar to what I've seen from my EH 6922s.


----------



## gumisb

No idea who makes them but they sounds better than Tesla and they have regular legs not gold one.


----------



## watchnerd

gumisb said:


> No idea who makes them but they sounds better than Tesla and they have regular legs not gold one.



Oh they're going to kick you out of the club for that!

New production better than NOS?

uh oh


----------



## gumisb

Unfortunately in this two tubes comparison there is no night and day difference, so nobody should run to near shop to buy new one or in panic sell old one.
Tesla is allrounder easy to listen, S4A has litte more high extension whit all benefits and consequences. That's all.


----------



## watchnerd

I just got a pair of HE6SE V1 (power hungry) and EQ'd them pretty aggressively using Oratory's curve (making them even more power hungry).

On high gain, with all the PEQ bands turned on, the Tungsram tubes I had in at the time were clipping a bit (who can blame them).

So I swapped in the LISST as a test (the LISST also clipped, but less).

But you know what...?

The LISST aren't that bad!!

But maybe it's because I have the better, early production OG LISSTs.


----------



## G0rt

Again late to the party, now warming up some new/NOS Brimar Footscray CV491 D-getters from Langrex, having learned from 5814a's that I do appreciate the more relaxed gain structure of the 12AU7 class.

Both sweet and quiet, I leave them on hi-gain even with my Grados, leaving plenty of headroom even for wild swings like John Kaizan's breathy shakuhachi.

This morning, pairing well with a fine, figgy Torre Isilo tempranillo. 😋🤗😁


----------



## watchnerd

G0rt said:


> Again late to the party, now warming up some new/NOS Brimar Footscray CV491 D-getters from Langrex, having learned from 5814a's that I do appreciate the more relaxed gain structure of the 12AU7 class.
> 
> Both sweet and quiet, I leave them on hi-gain even with my Grados, leaving plenty of headroom even for wild swings like John Kaizan's breathy shakuhachi.
> 
> This morning, pairing well with a fine, figgy Torre Isilo tempranillo. 😋🤗😁



Spanish wine in the morning?

That's a way to start a Sunday!


----------



## G0rt

watchnerd said:


> Spanish wine in the morning?
> 
> That's a way to start a Sunday!


Flavors...

I generally start my day around 0200 local, to leverage a quiet house for meditation and music, with a light breakfast and a big cup of Tibetan style butter tea.

A little wine around sunrise is a happy thing. Like a tequila sunrise with clothes on.

Coffee later, these days a real nice Snake Eater bourbon barrel roast, sometimes with a t of demerara & a dollop of half&half.

Second breakfast, lunch, siesta, more music, more wine... lots of flavors. 😁


----------



## G0rt

And then I remembered to DeOxit the CV491's groaty pins. Oops. 🤭


----------



## Wes S (Dec 6, 2021)

G0rt said:


> Again late to the party, now warming up some new/NOS Brimar Footscray CV491 D-getters from Langrex, having learned from 5814a's that I do appreciate the more relaxed gain structure of the 12AU7 class.
> 
> Both sweet and quiet, I leave them on hi-gain even with my Grados, leaving plenty of headroom even for wild swings like John Kaizan's breathy shakuhachi.
> 
> This morning, pairing well with a fine, figgy Torre Isilo tempranillo. 😋🤗😁


Heck yeah!  Glad I got 3 pairs of those CV491 Footscray D Getters from Langrex before they sold out, as they have become my number 1 tube, and the only one I use these days.  Talk about magical mids and especially the vocals.  The vocals are hands down the best I have heard with a tube, and then there is the bass and it's powerful, tight, and impactful.  The detail is top botch, and nothing ever feels forced or artificial.  I have been quiet about this tube hoping to secure some backups (of which I finally have) and it appears I was not alone.


----------



## G0rt

Wes S said:


> Heck yeah!  Glad I got 3 pairs of those CV491 Footscray D Getters from Langrex before they sold out, as they have become my number 1 tube, and the only one I use these days.  Talk about magical mids and especially the vocals.  The vocals are hands down the best I have heard with a tube, and then there is the bass and it's powerful, tight, and impactful.  The detail is top botch, and nothing ever feels forced or artificial.  I have been quiet about this tube hoping to secure some backups (of which I finally have) and it appears I was not alone.


It really is a very sweet bottle, maybe the most balanced I've found for MJ2, although I do like those 5814a's.

Still evaluating the Mullard E180cc's in VH2, but happy so far.

The CV455's & CV4033's, particularly the Footscrays, still work well for me in both amps. And the RFT's, and various Raytheons, and...

Rotationation. 😁


----------



## Wes S (Dec 6, 2021)

G0rt said:


> It really is a very sweet bottle, maybe the most balanced I've found for MJ2, although I do like those 5814a's.
> 
> Still evaluating the Mullard E180cc's in VH2, but happy so far.
> 
> ...


Sweet is a good way to put it, and balanced to perfection.


----------



## busseysound

Wes S said:


> Sweet is a good way to put it, and balanced to perfection.


Wes or G0rt can you guys post a pic of the CV491's you're using?  Think I might look for a pair of those.

Lately I'm on these Sylvania 12AT7WA black plate (or gray) triple mica square getters.  The clarity is the best I've heard.  Tight bass, pretty smooth mids.


----------



## Wes S (Dec 6, 2021)

busseysound said:


> Wes or G0rt can you guys post a pic of the CV491's you're using?  Think I might look for a pair of those.
> 
> Lately I'm on these Sylvania 12AT7WA black plate (or gray) triple mica square getters.  The clarity is the best I've heard.  Tight bass, pretty smooth mids.


Langrex has them listed as sold out unfortunately, and that's the only place I have seen this specific version.  This version has a very unique looking D Getter, that I have not seen on any other Brimar CV491 tubes.  Perhaps it might be worth it to reach out to Langrex to see if they have anymore.

Here is the only pic I have at the moment.


----------



## busseysound

Wes S said:


> Langrex has them listed as sold out unfortunately, and that's the only place I have seen this specific version.  This version has a very unique looking D Getter, that I have not seen on any other Brimar CV491 tubes.  Perhaps it might be worth it to reach out to Langrex to see if they have anymore.
> 
> Here is the only pic I have at the moment.


Gotcha - thanks!!


----------



## shafat777

Brimar CV4034 is also a great 12au7 tube for the MJ2. Right now I am comparing between the 12au7 (CV4034) and 12at7 Cv455 Brimars. 

The 12au7 sounds sweeter with great high end extension and gooey mids. The 12at7 has a overall warmer tone with deep bass and heavenly vocals. At this point, I am leaning more towards the 12at7 because I need my MJ2 to sound bassy because i run my He1000se exclusively with the MJ2 and it sounds much fuller in the mids with the 12at7 tubes. 

PS. Both of these tubes were recommended me by WEsS and Sam (Guidostrunk)


----------



## watchnerd

shafat777 said:


> Brimar CV4034 is also a great 12au7 tube for the MJ2. Right now I am comparing between the 12au7 (CV4034) and 12at7 Cv455 Brimars.
> 
> The 12au7 sounds sweeter with great high end extension and gooey mids. The 12at7 has a overall warmer tone with deep bass and heavenly vocals. At this point, I am leaning more towards the 12at7 because I need my MJ2 to sound bassy because* i run my He1000se exclusively with the MJ2 and it sounds much fuller in the mids with the 12at7 tubes.*
> 
> PS. Both of these tubes were recommended me by WEsS and Sam (Guidostrunk)



Do you also use EQ?

I get so frustrated trying to reconcile EQ and tubes.


----------



## shafat777

watchnerd said:


> Do you also use EQ?
> 
> I get so frustrated trying to reconcile EQ and tubes.


I do not eq. I let the tubes alter the sound and the hp takes care of the rest


----------



## jonathan c

shafat777 said:


> Brimar CV4034 is also a great 12au7 tube for the MJ2. Right now I am comparing between the 12au7 (CV4034) and 12at7 Cv455 Brimars.
> 
> The 12au7 sounds sweeter with great high end extension and gooey mids. The 12at7 has a overall warmer tone with deep bass and heavenly vocals. At this point, I am leaning more towards the 12at7 because I need my MJ2 to sound bassy because i run my He1000se exclusively with the MJ2 and it sounds much fuller in the mids with the 12at7 tubes.
> 
> PS. Both of these tubes were recommended me by WEsS and Sam (Guidostrunk)


Your PS =/= BS when it comes to WS + GS !!!


----------



## G0rt

'Tis the season to be ... fiddling about. 🙂

I finally got a round tuit, and asked @Deyan to fabricate my favorite fantasy tube adapter for Mjolnir2: 6SN7 to 6922, with a separate umbilical just for the filaments. Filumbilicus?

No idea how long shipping might take at this time of year. I went series connected, just to control the overall current draw, but parallel filaments should work fine, too.

At least initially, I'll be using a simple Korad linear bench supply for the 12.6 volt series string, in constant current mode for 600 mA.

I measured my un-matched Footscray CV1988's last night with my Fluke, and the cold filaments are about 2.3/2.4 ohms, needing over 2.5 amps at 6.3 volts.

I theorized the Korad would reduce the voltage to ~1.5 volts and then raise it as the filaments reached operating temperature.

This morning, I lit each tube individually and everything behaved as expected, taking some 30 seconds to stabilize, a nice soft start.

Deyan's adapter will be usable with MJ2, VH2, even Lyr3 with a jumper in the 2nd socket, and put 6SN7, 8SN7, 12SN7 or anything adaptable to ?SN7 within reach.

Oh boy Oh boy Oh boy 😁


----------



## Guidostrunk

G0rt said:


> 'Tis the season to be ... fiddling about. 🙂
> 
> I finally got a round tuit, and asked @Deyan to fabricate my favorite fantasy tube adapter for Mjolnir2: 6SN7 to 6922, with a separate umbilical just for the filaments. Filumbilicus?
> 
> ...


Hmmm. I'm really curious to see how this works out bro. I love the cv1988 and if I can run it in the MJ2 that would be incredible! Please keep the thread updated. I'll be pm'ing you regarding the adapter and what to exactly get. Lol


----------



## G0rt

Guidostrunk said:


> Hmmm. I'm really curious to see how this works out bro. I love the cv1988 and if I can run it in the MJ2 that would be incredible! Please keep the thread updated. I'll be pm'ing you regarding the adapter and what to exactly get. Lol


I absolutely will. 

I've got some fiddly bits due next week, and I'll be making 2-tube measurements when I don't have things so haywired.

Since I elected to use constant current mode, I'm not very concerned about different voltage drops, but I am curious.

Pared to essentials, you could get by with just an AC filament transformer, but clean DC and soft start do offer advantages, if you have a lab supply kicking about.

The adapter itself was due to ship yesterday, so it might even arrive this year.


----------



## Deyan

Takes around 2 weeks to the US.


----------



## bcowen

G0rt said:


> 'Tis the season to be ... fiddling about. 🙂
> 
> I finally got a round tuit, and asked @Deyan to fabricate my favorite fantasy tube adapter for Mjolnir2: 6SN7 to 6922, with a separate umbilical just for the filaments. Filumbilicus?
> 
> ...


You are creating an entirely new dimension of tube rolling.  I hate you.


----------



## G0rt

bcowen said:


> You are creating an entirely new dimension of tube rolling.  I hate you.


I'm surprised nobody's yet tried it, at least in public, at least with Schiit.

Grounding as always is a potential hairball, but there are ways and means. Won't know until I know. 😉


----------



## G0rt

I don't always measure current, but when I do...


----------



## jonathan c

G0rt said:


> I don't always measure current, but when I do...


…I have a Dos Esquis in hand…😵…


----------



## G0rt

jonathan c said:


> …I have a Dos Esquis in hand…😵…


I haven't had a drink all day. I'll fix that now.

I played with 3 pairs of tubes today, just lighting them up in series & observing filament current at different voltages.

A pair of CV1988 Footscrays (a '52 KB/N & a '54 KB/FB) draw 605 mils @ 12.6 VDC, or 600 @ 12.4.

A pair of NOS Westinghouse 6SN7GTB's pull less than 600 mils even @13.1 VDC.

A pair of NOS American Tung Sol 6SN7GTB's pull 600 mils @ 12.9 VDC.

The drops across the Brimars were within 85 mV of each other, so close enough for govt work.

+-5% of 12.6 gives 11.97 to 13.23 V as a sensible range, with 600 mils the soft target.

I'm guessing the GTB's behave the way they do due to their controlled warmup design. I've got some GTA's around here somewhere...


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> …I have a Dos Esquis in hand…😵…


LOL!  

I was gonna say those were the most interesting measurements in the world, but you beat me to it.


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> LOL!
> 
> I was gonna say those were the most interesting measurements in the world, but you beat me to it.


😂😂😂


----------



## billerb1

Long time, no see.  Hope all of you are happy and well.  Thought I'd pass this along even though (as usual) it's not on topic.  I just finished replacing pretty much all my cabling (headphone cable, interconnects, coax and power cords) with ones from a small shop in Colorado called Audio Envy.  Do some research if you find yourself thinking about upgrades in this area.  You'll find that their reputation is that they swing WAY above their weight.  If you are anything like me and can't afford thousands of dollars on cables, these really deliver incredible bang for the buck.  Such a change for the better with my rig.  The music spigot is wide open.
Have a great holiday season guys !!!


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> Long time, no see.  Hope all of you are happy and well.  Thought I'd pass this along even though (as usual) it's not on topic.  I just finished replacing pretty much all my cabling (headphone cable, interconnects, coax and power cords) with ones from a small shop in Colorado called Audio Envy.  Do some research if you find yourself thinking about upgrades in this area.  You'll find that their reputation is that they swing WAY above their weight.  If you are anything like me and can't afford thousands of dollars on cables, these really deliver incredible bang for the buck.  Such a change for the better with my rig.  The music spigot is wide open.
> Have a great holiday season guys !!!


A fascinating outfit…


----------



## billerb1 (Jan 12, 2022)

Been going thru all my front line tubes with my now burned-in new interconnects and cables...alternating between Brimar 455's, Brimar Square Getters, Telefunken ECC801S's and RFT ECC81's.  They are ALL such quality tubes and certain songs bring out the most desireable qualities in each tube.  The biggest 'surprise' so far to me has been the somewhat forgotten Brimar Square Getters.  I'm finding myself drawn to that somewhat more upfront presentation they have, especially with the vocals.  Had forgotten how intimate and engaging those vocals and certain instrumental solos could be with the Squares.  Anyway, it's so great to have choices...and it's hard to go wrong with any of these.


----------



## Wes S (Jan 12, 2022)

billerb1 said:


> Been going thru all my front line tubes with by now burned-in new interconnects and cables...alternating between Brimar 455's, Brimar Square Getters, Telefunken ECC801S's and RFT ECC81's.  They are ALL such quality tubes and certain songs bring out the most desireable qualities in each tube.  The biggest 'surprise' so far to me has been the somewhat forgotten Brimar Square Getters.  I'm finding myself drawn to that somewhat more upfront presentation they have, especially with the vocals.  Had forgotten how intimate and engaging those vocals and certain instrumental solos could be with the Squares.  Anyway, it's so great to have choices...and it's hard to go wrong with any of these.


Good stuff!  I have been digging those old Brimar ECC82 Square Getters as well!  I pulled one out of my stash the other day that I got from @TK16 a couple of years ago, and to my surprise it's been a killer tube in my Pendant, with a very immersive and holographic stage and vocals to die for.  Long live Footscray Brimars!


----------



## billerb1 (Jan 12, 2022)

Wes S said:


> Good stuff!  I have been digging those old Brimar ECC82 Square Getters as well!  I pulled one out of my stash the other day that I got from @TK16 a couple of years ago, and to my surprise it's been a killer tube in my Pendant, with a very immersive and holographic stage and vocals to die for.  Long live Footscray Brimars!


These are the 1957 Brimar CV4033's Squares most of us got from Sanjiv which I'm pretty sure are ECC81's.  It's an interesting comparison between the Brimar 455's that I got from Langrex and these 4033's from Sanjiv.  The 455's extract a bit more detail but on my rig seem a few rows farther back and a tad less rich in texture/tone.  The Teles are my favorites just for sheer tone, especially on acoustic...but they lack some of the soundstage nuance of the Brimars.  The RFT's are good at everything but don't seem to have that one identifiable signature sound that puts them above the rest.  Very detailed and very musical...but a bit thinner than either of the Brimars or Teles in resonance/timbre with my new setup.


----------



## Wes S (Jan 12, 2022)

billerb1 said:


> These are the 1957 Brimar CV4033's Squares most of us got from Sanjiv which I'm pretty sure are ECC81's.  It's an interesting comparison between the Brimar 455's that I got from Langrex and these 4033's from Sanjiv.  The 455's extract a bit more detail but on my rig seem a few rows farther back and a tad less rich in texture/tone.  The Teles are my favorites just for sheer tone, especially on acoustic...but they lack some of the soundstage nuance of the Brimars.  The RFT's are good at everything but don't seem to have that one identifiable signature sound that puts them above the rest.  Very detailed and very musical...but a bit thinner than either of the Brimars or Teles in resonance/timbre with my new setup.


Oh got ya, those CV4033 square getters are good too.    Also, I have started to notice the same thing with the RFT's as well, and I like Brimar's more organic house sound flavor a bit more too.

One of these days I am going to have to try out one of those Teles. . .


----------



## billerb1

Wes S said:


> Oh got ya, those CV4033 square getters are good too.    Also, I have started to notice the same thing with the RFT's as well, and I like Brimar's more organic house sound flavor a bit more too.
> 
> One of these days I am going to have to try out one of those Teles. . .


I've never heard anyone say the Tele ECC801S's have a great synergy with the MJ2...but I feel like they do with my Woo WA2.  You know how this game goes, Wes.


----------



## jonathan c

Wes S said:


> Good stuff!  I have been digging those old Brimar ECC82 Square Getters as well!  I pulled one out of my stash the other day that I got from @TK16 a couple of years ago, and to my surprise it's been a killer tube in my Pendant, with a very immersive and holographic stage and vocals to die for.  Long live Footscray Brimars!


…and those ECC82 SGs have new life with the SR Purple…finally are showing their full capabilities…


----------



## Lvivske

Anyone have an experience of an old tube cracking / blowing?


----------



## busseysound

Lvivske said:


> Anyone have an experience of an old tube cracking / blowing?


I've had one with a bunch of tiny cracks at the bottom.  Killed my Mjolnir 2 - had to send it into Schiit to get repaired.  Be careful!


----------



## busseysound (Jan 12, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> …and those ECC82 SGs have new life with the SR Purple…finally are showing their full capabilities…


The SR Purple shocked me that it improved the sound as much as it did.  So much more clarity.  I gotta give Wes the credit for the recommenation.

On another note, The Sylvania 12AT7 (not WA) E version (military I think) triple mica black plate square getter is winning over everything else.


----------



## Lvivske

busseysound said:


> I've had one with a bunch of tiny cracks at the bottom.  Killed my Mjolnir 2 - had to send it into Schiit to get repaired.  Be careful!



actually happened while a technician was working on it, said he turned it on and a tube 'cracked from heat and the top fell off'. It was an old stock schiit russian tube (didnt send in the good stuff) but just shocked those things just....happen, apparently?


----------



## regaet

Lvivske said:


> actually happened while a technician was working on it, said he turned it on and a tube 'cracked from heat and the top fell off'. It was an old stock schiit russian tube (didnt send in the good stuff) but just shocked those things just....happen, apparently?


I had a Russian 6N6P and an RFT ECC82 crack while burning in.


----------



## jclyle

roman410 said:


> This info it is from MJ2 manual
> Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 8.0W RMS per channel
> Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 5.0W RMS per channel
> Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 850mW RMS per channel
> Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 425mW RMS per channel


Has Schiit clarified if these ratings are for balanced, or single ended? 
I’ve searched and can’t find any data on the single ended output. I’d like to see the full specs.

I just got a MJ2 yesterday and am shocked at how good it is. 
All of my headphone cables are single ended, and MJ2 low gain has plenty of juice. I haven’t gone past 9 o’clock on the volume dial!


----------



## Guidostrunk

jclyle said:


> Has Schiit clarified if these ratings are for balanced, or single ended?
> I’ve searched and can’t find any data on the single ended output. I’d like to see the full specs.
> 
> I just got a MJ2 yesterday and am shocked at how good it is.
> All of my headphone cables are single ended, and MJ2 low gain has plenty of juice. I haven’t gone past 9 o’clock on the volume dial!


I believe those are balanced specs.


----------



## tjl5709

jclyle said:


> Has Schiit clarified if these ratings are for balanced, or single ended?
> I’ve searched and can’t find any data on the single ended output. I’d like to see the full specs.
> 
> I just got a MJ2 yesterday and am shocked at how good it is.
> All of my headphone cables are single ended, and MJ2 low gain has plenty of juice. I haven’t gone past 9 o’clock on the volume dial!


Find yourself a cheap balanced cable for one of your HP's and try balanced..............just saying...........


----------



## jonathan c

jclyle said:


> Has Schiit clarified if these ratings are for balanced, or single ended?
> I’ve searched and can’t find any data on the single ended output. I’d like to see the full specs.
> 
> I just got a MJ2 yesterday and am shocked at how good it is.
> All of my headphone cables are single ended, and MJ2 low gain has plenty of juice. I haven’t gone past 9 o’clock on the volume dial!


The Mjolnir II is designed as fully balanced. You should get the XLR-terminated balanced h/p cables to take_ full_ advantage of what MJ2 offers. Besides, would Thor wield a massive _un_balanced hammer?…🤔🤣🤣…


----------



## jclyle

jonathan c said:


> The Mjolnir II is designed as fully balanced. You should get the XLR-terminated balanced h/p cables to take_ full_ advantage of what MJ2 offers. Besides, would Thor wield a massive _un_balanced hammer?…🤔🤣🤣…


Yep, I have a stock ZMF balanced cable and am aware of the differences between SE & balanced 
The problem is my recliners and couch are 12' from the amp, so I need to get a balanced extension cable.

I'll probably sell my iFi iCan Pro Signature amp now that I have the MJ2. Its that damn good! That would free up cash for new cables. And tubes.


----------



## Guidostrunk

jclyle said:


> Yep, I have a stock ZMF balanced cable and am aware of the differences between SE & balanced
> The problem is my recliners and couch are 12' from the amp, so I need to get a balanced extension cable.
> 
> I'll probably sell my iFi iCan Pro Signature amp now that I have the MJ2. Its that damn good! That would free up cash for new cables. And tubes.


Welcome to the club! I'll save you some money and aggravation bro.

Grab a pair of these first.
https://pulsetubestore.com/products/12axx-to-ecc88-adapter-plug-play-novib-©-1960s-nos-british-mcmurdo-phenolic-socket-on-top-plus-vibration-reduction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china

Then grab a pair of these.
https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/12at7-cv455-kb-fb-brimar-rare-triple-mica-1956-nos-valve-tube/

You're at the top of the mountain tube wise. After that it's flavor shopping. The CV455 is an elite tube.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Then in a few months if you still love your MJ2. There's another thing you can do to take it to end game territory. The Cap Mod. Lol


----------



## ksorota

Guidostrunk said:


> Then in a few months if you still love your MJ2. There's another thing you can do to take it to end game territory. The Cap Mod. Lol



Sent another modded MJ2 out the other day. Should be landing at its owners home tomorrow!!!

Hard to let them go once they have burned it in a bit withsome 7730s!


----------



## Guidostrunk

ksorota said:


> Sent another modded MJ2 out the other day. Should be landing at its owners home tomorrow!!!
> 
> Hard to let them go once they have burned it in a bit withsome 7730s!


That's awesome you still have them 7730's lol. Good to see you Keith. I'm sure he's gonna love the mod. I'm waiting for his pm after he gives it a whirl.


----------



## shafat777

ksorota said:


> Sent another modded MJ2 out the other day. Should be landing at its owners home tomorrow!!!
> 
> Hard to let them go once they have burned it in a bit withsome 7730s!


Some lucky jabroni will be really happy tomorrow. I hope that same jabroni really gets to experiment with lots of 12a7t tubes and enjoys music like never before.


----------



## ksorota

Guidostrunk said:


> That's awesome you still have them 7730's lol. Good to see you Keith. I'm sure he's gonna love the mod. I'm waiting for his pm after he gives it a whirl.


7730's and 7728s keep me company and all the other tubes are gone...well, not all of them.  I have a couple of sets that I have no idea what they are anymore but I believe they are 6922 tubes, lol.  

I have managed to get back away from all tubes except for the modded amps and a Vali 2 at the office...happily back into the SS life!


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> ...happily back into the SS life!


….psst!…edit before @bcowen & the ‘incubiers’ see this…🤫😳…


----------



## Adnan Firoze

Hey guys, got into a problem. I use 9 pin socket savers/risers to elevate the tubes. So, one of them is stuck. The holes are so small, my fingers won't fit to wiggle it out. Someone on reddit wrote this happens all the time and he uses a needlenose pliers to pull it. I don't have one lying around. I don't want to send it to Schiit for just a pull. Any insights/experience? Thanks so much.


----------



## ksorota

Adnan Firoze said:


> Hey guys, got into a problem. I use 9 pin socket savers/risers to elevate the tubes. So, one of them is stuck. The holes are so small, my fingers won't fit to wiggle it out. Someone on reddit wrote this happens all the time and he uses a needlenose pliers to pull it. I don't have one lying around. I don't want to send it to Schiit for just a pull. Any insights/experience? Thanks so much.



The casework is not difficult to get off, just a whole lot of phillips head screws.  

You can actually also leave all the alumin. outer case work intact and just remove the dark grey internal frame by removing the top screws, the bottom edge screws and the connection screws.  This way you dont have to deal with realigning the LED light when putting it back together.  

If you take apart the case, the only silver screws that are different are the 5 along the front bottom edge.  they are the same thread, just shorter overall screws.


----------



## bcowen

ksorota said:


> 7730's and 7728s keep me company and all the other tubes are gone...well, not all of them.  I have a couple of sets that I have no idea what they are anymore but I believe they are 6922 tubes, lol.
> 
> I have managed to get back away from all tubes except for the modded amps and a Vali 2 at the office...*happily* back into the SS life!


Happily?  HAPPILY?!?  Heresy!


----------



## jonathan c (Jan 19, 2022)

bcowen said:


> Happily?  HAPPILY?!?  Heresy!


Not only that…but ‘BACK’!…..Tubes weren’t good enough!….


----------



## ksorota

@bcowen @jonathan c 
I have a love hate relationship with tube amps (been through a number of them).  I love the way they sound, but then find myself traveling to all ends of the internet in search of NOS tubes and then being nervous to leave them on too long, or wondering if I powered them down at night.  

I am now running a DSHA-3F which has a bit of that tube magic to it, actually, it is the best SS amp I have owned at this point.


----------



## jonathan c

ksorota said:


> @bcowen @jonathan c
> I have a love hate relationship with tube amps (been through a number of them).  I love the way they sound, but then find myself traveling to all ends of the internet in search of NOS tubes and then being nervous to leave them on too long, or wondering if I powered them down at night.


That’s nothing…..😂….. I ponder whether the tube _and_ adapter pins are clean enough, the tube bases are secure 😳😵‍💫…


----------



## Wes S (Jan 20, 2022)

ksorota said:


> @bcowen @jonathan c
> I have a love hate relationship with tube amps (been through a number of them).  I love the way they sound, but then find myself traveling to all ends of the internet in search of NOS tubes and then being nervous to leave them on too long, or wondering if I powered them down at night.
> 
> I am now running a DSHA-3F which has a bit of that tube magic to it, actually, it is the best SS amp I have owned at this point.


Congrats on finding a 3F!  That's the only amp I have left on my wish list to complete my "Dream Trio" of amps.


----------



## Adnan Firoze

ksorota said:


> @bcowen @jonathan c
> I have a love hate relationship with tube amps (been through a number of them).  I love the way they sound, but then find myself traveling to all ends of the internet in search of NOS tubes and then being nervous to leave them on too long, or wondering if I powered them down at night.
> 
> I am now running a DSHA-3F which has a bit of that tube magic to it, actually, it is the best SS amp I have owned at this point.



THIS. Also, I found a real gentleman sell me his full stash of 2 pairs and one single Kenrad VT231/6sn7 (1939-41) at a price that one can't imagine. He had them for a while but not using any amp that needed them. Mad respect.


----------



## shafat777

Cap modded MJ2 in the house !!!!


----------



## jonathan c

shafat777 said:


> Cap modded MJ2 in the house !!!!


…and?…


----------



## Ripper2860

It's laying on the couch in its underwear, hogging the TV remote, drank all the beer, and is now eating @shafat777's left-over pizza.


----------



## jonathan c (Jan 21, 2022)

Ripper2860 said:


> It's laying on the couch in its underwear, hogging the TV remote, drank all the beer, and is now eating @shafat777's left-over pizza.


….and burning the square getter holders out of the Footscrays….


----------



## shafat777

jonathan c said:


> …and?…


Literally too much beer to write a detailed impression at the moment lol. I was at work all day and am on call all night. But I was able to listen to it for an hour after work today and I think it's one of the best investments I've ever made in my hifi journey. I ll post my full impression sometimes tomorrow.


----------



## jonathan c

shafat777 said:


> Literally too much beer to write a detailed impression at the moment lol. I was at work all day and am on call all night. But I was able to listen to it for an hour after work today and I think it's one of the best investments I've ever made in my hifi journey. I ll post my full impression sometimes tomorrow.


…if I can remember what I heard…


----------



## jclyle

Do any sites in the US carry 12AXX to ECC88 adapters? Everything I've found ships from China, and I don't want a long wait...


----------



## jonathan c

jclyle said:


> Do any sites in the US carry 12AXX to ECC88 adapters? Everything I've found ships from China, and I don't want a long wait...


The best ones come from Pulse Tube Store, located in India. A number of contributors to this thread, including me, have used PTS frequently. Sanjiv M., the proprietor/engineer is a stand-up fellow with whom to do business!


----------



## Guidostrunk

jclyle said:


> Do any sites in the US carry 12AXX to ECC88 adapters? Everything I've found ships from China, and I don't want a long wait...


Less than 10 days from pulse to your door. 
https://pulsetubestore.com/products...uction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china


----------



## Guidostrunk

shafat777 said:


> Literally too much beer to write a detailed impression at the moment lol. I was at work all day and am on call all night. But I was able to listen to it for an hour after work today and I think it's one of the best investments I've ever made in my hifi journey. I ll post my full impression sometimes tomorrow.


That's awesome bro! Can't wait to hear the final word. Lol


----------



## Deyan

jclyle said:


> Do any sites in the US carry 12AXX to ECC88 adapters? Everything I've found ships from China, and I don't want a long wait...


 Also I'm making them and I'm not from China.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Jan 24, 2022)

Hi All! Been lurking here for a little while now, just acquired a Mjolner 2 with a few tubes off of US Audio Mart, hopefully be in by the end of the week. I already have a Gumby multibit w/USB 5th gen, and a set of ZMF Verite's w/a Moon Audio Silver Dragon cable. I'm only streaming Amazon HD from my computer over USB. So, I hope you might answer a few  questions.

The Mjolner came from here: https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649818190-schiit-mjolnir-2-balanced-tube-amp-w3-sets-of-tubes/

and includes some socket adapters for 12AU7 tubes. If I remember right (it's been a while), 12AU7's have same pinout as 12AX and 12AT's, right? So if I were to get some Brimar CV4033's, I should be good for plug and play?

Any availability on preferred tube set's? For instance Ya'll seem to like a particular year of Brimar with a particular number of mica's and a particular getter. I ordered a generic Brimar CV4033 set from Pulse, but where can I source HG sets from and what particular parameters are you looking for?

Many posts are also centered on a Mjolner upgrade, basically upping the capacitance in the PS's. These are the caps dealing with DC ripple, right? Tied to ground and shunting noise? So both the HV and LV (heater) rails have been upgraded. Has anyone tried bypassing these as well or instead?

Anyway, Thanks for all the useful info and interesting reading!!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hi All! Been lurking here for a little while now, just acquired a Mjolner 2 with a few tubes off of US Audio Mart, hopefully be in by the end of the week. I already have a Gumby multibit w/USB 5th gen, and a set of ZMF Verite's w/a Moon Audio Silver Dragon cable. I'm only streaming Amazon HD from my computer over USB. So, I hope you might answer a few  questions.
> 
> The Mjolner came from here: https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649818190-schiit-mjolnir-2-balanced-tube-amp-w3-sets-of-tubes/
> 
> ...


These are what you want bro. Footscray 1956 triple mica square getter. These are the best of the Footscray.
https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/12at7-cv455-kb-fb-brimar-rare-triple-mica-1956-nos-valve-tube/

As far as the mod. Any technical info is probably best to pm @ksorota as he is the one who mods these for the MJ2 community.

Cheers!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Jan 24, 2022)

Hey GuidoStrunk, thanks for reply!

Went ahead and ordered a pair from your link, will worry about caching spares later.

 I’m a bit pissed at myself right now, in the middle of packing/decluttering for a major house renovation, and seriously damaged my Verite’s!!! Got caught on the cord, dragged them off the desk, and they hit hard and fractured the wood around one pivot of a gimbal,. Split the wood all the way to the circular vented cap, broke a piece of wood off between vents, just nasty! I used to be an instrument repairman, so I can fix it, but the repair won’t be invisible. Drivers are fully intact, heck, they still sound great, but crap! Sighhhhhh…..

Anyway, a have a home built set of Grados with Symphones drivers that will have to satisfy me for now until the repair is finished, plan on taking my time.


----------



## jonathan c

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hey GuidoStrunk, thanks for reply!
> 
> Went ahead and ordered a pair from your link, will worry about caching spares later.
> 
> ...


😳😱


----------



## Rowethren

Sorry to hear about your Verites, fingers crossed the repair goes well!

As for tube recommendations for the Mjolnir 2 another great one and the one I seem to use most with my Verite Closed is the RFT ECC81.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Thanks Rowethren, will have to try that one out as well!


----------



## ksorota

Guidostrunk said:


> These are what you want bro. Footscray 1956 triple mica square getter. These are the best of the Footscray.
> https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/12at7-cv455-kb-fb-brimar-rare-triple-mica-1956-nos-valve-tube/



Need to add this as a sticky to the thread!  I tried parsing through all the tube grails a few months ago looking for this one again and it is def. one you should own!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Jan 25, 2022)

Hey Ksorota, your the one doing mods to the Mjolnir, right? Seems many like your upgrade. This is basically upping the capacitance in the PS's, as well as changing cap brands/series to better sounding ones? These are the caps dealing with DC ripple, right? Tied to ground and shunting noise on both the HV and LV rails?. Has anyone tried bypassing these as well or instead?

Thanks for reply in advance!


----------



## ksorota

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hey Ksorota, your the one doing mods to the Mjolnir, right? Seems many like your upgrade. This is basically upping the capacitance in the PS's, as well as changing cap brands/series to better sounding ones. These are the caps dealing with DC ripple, right? Tied to ground and shunting noise on both the HV and LV rails?. Has anyone tried bypassing these as well or instead?
> 
> Thanks for reply in advance!


As far as I know, that has not been done.  I know I have not tried this approach.  I would be hesitant to change up the circuit in any drastic way as I am not sure it could take it.  What would bypassing them gain you in this case?


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Jan 25, 2022)

Hey Ksorota!



As best I can describe bypassing, it goes something like this. Film Caps generally have a better sound than electrolytics, mostly due to having lower ESR (electrical series resistance). But… they are more expensive to manufacture and are much larger in volume per uF of capacitance. So manufacturers use electrolytics because they are very compact and low cost, especially in power supplies where massive uF’s values are needed. So to bypass, you would use a film cap, somewhere around 1% to 2 % of the capacitance of the electrolytic cap, connected in parallel to the electrolytic. Capacitors in parallel are equal to the sum of their capacitance, so very little has changed value wise. But, you get the advantages of a better sounding film cap without the huge size/huge cost of replacing the electrolytic with a film cap, as well as better ripple filtering. I'm a little shaky on the theory, but if I have it right, the uF of a cap determines the Q of the RC circuit, the Q of a circuit determines at what freq it best shunts ripple (noise) on the DC rail to ground. By bypassing, you now have another Q freq, and a bandwidth range from one caps Q to the other where noise (ripple) passes easily. Not the best description, but I’m not an electronics whiz.



My experience with it is it makes for blacker backgrounds and clearer mids/highs. I did this on a Burson Soloist HA-160, really liked the results. But it was a b**ch to implement (Burson is very compact)! I wouldn't have been in market for another amp if it weren't that the Verites’ just demand too much power (anywhere from 12:30 to 3:30 on the volume control).


Bypassing is a bit controversial, there are detractors, but it is a practice upheld by many in the Audiophile community. It’s commonly done on electrolytic caps , especially if tied to ground.

 Edit: Man, I suck at trying to describe this. Sorry!!!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Jan 27, 2022)

Hi all! Quick update, glued up my one cup on my Verite opens. Like I said, it’s going to be visible, and there’s not much I can do about it. The problem is the split up to the metal vented cap. I’m pretty sure that cap was installed with an interference fit to the cup, and therefor the crack doesn’t want to fully close, even with moderate clamping force. Looked into removing the cap, it’s just too much work and I don’t know that I could get it out cleanly, nor press it back in and glue it without making a bigger mess. The piece that broke off between vents fit up well though, that break should be invisible. Structure wise, it should be sound. I’m going to let it dry 24 hrs, then get out some hobby grade super glue/accelerant and try to fill and sand the glued crack to a smooth surface. If I’m lucky, I can spot finish to where it’s not noticeable.

In Mjolnir news, my amp should arrive tomorrow, but I won’t be able to do more than a quick listen, as the to do list before this house renovation is still massive, and I’m out of town on business all next week. I’m hoping when I get back to have 2 different tube vendor packages awaiting, fingers crossed!

Anyway, have a great night!


----------



## Rowethren

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hi all! Quick update, glued up my one cup on my Verite opens. Like I said, it’s going to be visible, and there’s not much I can do about it. The problem is the split up to the metal vented cap. I’m pretty sure that cap was installed with an interference fit to the cup, and therefor the crack doesn’t want to fully close, even with moderate clamping force. Looked into removing the cap, it’s just too much work and I don’t know that I could get it out cleanly, nor press it back in and glue it without making a bigger mess. The piece that broke off between vents fit up well though, that break should be invisible. Structure wise, it should be sound. I’m going to let it dry 24 hrs, then get out some hobby grade super glue/accelerant and try to fill and sand the glued crack to a smooth surface. If I’m lucky, I can spot finish to where it’s not noticeable.
> 
> In Mjolnir news, my amp should arrive tomorrow, but I won’t be able to do more than a quick listen, as the to do list before this house renovation is still massive, and I’m out of town on business all next week. I’m hoping when I get back to have 2 different tube vendor packages awaiting, fingers crossed!
> 
> Anyway, have a great night!



If you don't have any luck with the Verites I know ZMF do quite a comprehensive package of repairs, obviously it wouldn't be free but it depends on how happy you are with the fix.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Hey Rowethren!

I probably should have considered that before repairing. At this point, glue is in the joint, so there's not much that can be done on their end, other than replace the cup (Zircote). That would depend on wood availability. Guess I'll have to save up and get a replacement set of Verite's at a some point. For now, I'll use what I have. Thanks for the suggestion!


----------



## Rowethren

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hey Rowethren!
> 
> I probably should have considered that before repairing. At this point, glue is in the joint, so there's not much that can be done on their end, other than replace the cup (Zircote). That would depend on wood availability. Guess I'll have to save up and get a replacement set of Verite's at a some point. For now, I'll use what I have. Thanks for the suggestion!


I think they can do full cup replacements but yeah it would depend on wood availability. This is the price breakdown:


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Hi Gang, finished up the Verite cup today, looks very good. There's some places I went thru the finish, but these were used headphones with a lot of wear, so I'm good with it for now.

AND, an expected guest arrived, currently warming up! Trying it with the tubes that were already on the adapters.
I'll probably get the Verite's assembled tonight, b ut I won't have a balanced cable for them made until this weekend.

Ya'll have a great night!


----------



## Smoothstereo

Hi all,

Anyone able to compare the Brimar CV455 KB/FB from 1956 to the Brimar CV4024 KB/AD circa 1950s and to RCA Cleartop 12AU7 from circa early 1960s ? I have the latter two tubes, would like to know how the Brimar CV455 performs in comparison.

Thanks.


----------



## bcowen

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hi Gang, finished up the Verite cup today, looks very good. There's some places I went thru the finish, but these were used headphones with a lot of wear, so I'm good with it for now.
> 
> AND, an expected guest arrived, currently warming up! Trying it with the tubes that were already on the adapters.
> I'll probably get the Verite's assembled tonight, b ut I won't have a balanced cable for them made until this weekend.
> ...


That's a very interesting Loki Max.  An equalizer with tubes would be the bomb.  😂😂😂


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Hey All!
Bcowen - I did notice that but didn't realize what the Loki referred to. I guess the seller is selling all his Schiit! lol 

Bit of news, tried the tubes last night, The CON ones attached to bases had a channel out, the ones with orange lettering didn't work at all with bases so I'm using what I assume is the stock 6DJ8's with no riser. Sounds OK, but underwhelming by what I know tubes can do. So now I'm questioning both the risers and the other tubes. No markings on the risers, all I know is they are for 9 pin tubes. So to be sure, ordered a set of the converters from Pulse (6DJ8>12AT7).

Did some looking online at pin layout for 12A's and 6DJ8's, the only difference I can tell seems to be the 6DJ8's have pin 9 as a shield between sections



and the 12AT7 seems to have pin 9 as a center tap for the heater, with no shield.



I'm guessing here, but that center tap might be because 12a's can be either 6 or 12 volt heater config?

Hmm, if the shield is actually used in our Mjolnir's , I think it might have some advantages (crosstalk/lower noise). Further reading revealed this tube type was not really made for audio applications, but Schiit chose that tube for a reason. I might have to look at getting a few HG 6922/ECC88/6DJ8's!

No progress on the cable, and I haven't assembled the ZMF's. XLR connector didn't come in. I'll be too busy for the next week to work on it, so will have to shelve until next weekend.

Anyway, hope Ya'll all have a great weekend!!!


----------



## ksorota

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hi Gang, finished up the Verite cup today, looks very good. There's some places I went thru the finish, but these were used headphones with a lot of wear, so I'm good with it for now.
> 
> AND, an expected guest arrived, currently warming up! Trying it with the tubes that were already on the adapters.
> I'll probably get the Verite's assembled tonight, b ut I won't have a balanced cable for them made until this weekend.
> ...


Wow, excellent job with the repair!  If you didnt point it out, it would be hard to tell at a passing glance.  I have seen sets of other lighter woods that looked more like they were cracked than your set.


----------



## bcowen

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hey All!
> Bcowen - I did notice that but didn't realize what the Loki referred to. I guess the seller is selling all his Schiit! lol
> 
> Bit of news, tried the tubes last night, The CON ones attached to bases had a channel out, the ones with orange lettering didn't work at all with bases so I'm using what I assume is the stock 6DJ8's with no riser. Sounds OK, but underwhelming by what I know tubes can do. So now I'm questioning both the risers and the other tubes. No markings on the risers, all I know is they are for 9 pin tubes. So to be sure, ordered a set of the converters from Pulse (6DJ8>12AT7).
> ...


Yes, the Pin 9 center tap for the 12A*7 is for the heater wiring configuration. But from a heater voltage perspective, it should work either way for the dual voltage 12AT7.  I would suspect the adapters are not for a 12A*7 -> 6922 application.  Could be meant for a 2C51 (396A) up top, or a 6N3P, or ??.  But I'm just guessing.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Jan 29, 2022)

Do you think I could find out with my DMM? Ill try looking at those tube pin outs as well and see what my meter shows.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

ksorota said:


> Wow, excellent job with the repair!  If you didnt point it out, it would be hard to tell at a passing glance.  I have seen sets of other lighter woods that looked more like they were cracked than your set.


Thanks! Dark wood helps, but I still wonder if there's damage I can't see. No easy way to tell.


----------



## bcowen

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Do you think I could find out with my DMM? Ill try looking at those tube pin outs as well and see what my meter shows.


You could see which top pin goes to each bottom pin easily enough with a DMM.  That would at least tell you if it's wired for a 12A*7 on top or something else.  

2C51 / 5670 / 396A below....just posting it as it's another popular type for tube rollers.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Hi all! Thought I would update while waiting on a plane. Got about an hour listening time in both Friday and Saturday, using the stock tubes and my parts built grados’, and have to say I’m impressed with the Mjolnir. Nice, tight lows, and there is definitely more subtle inner detail there. I think the tubes have also definitely improved with a little burn in. Won’t be able to do any more listening till I get back home, but just wanted to share my satisfaction with it. Thanks for the recommendations and insight/support!!!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Hi All! 

Finally back in town, received my adapters and  Brimar CV4033's I ordered from Pulse. Plugged them up last night, initial impression is they have a deep soundstage and meaty bass, but not much extension in the treble and far too polite sounding, almost as if leading edge is compressed. They seem to be very good at separating voices, though, and putting some space between instruments. I'm hoping they relax a bit after some burn in. The CV455's should come next week.

I hope to get the Verite's together this weekend, as well as wire up my balanced cable. More to come!


----------



## Rowethren

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hi All!
> 
> Finally back in town, received my adapters and  Brimar CV4033's I ordered from Pulse. Plugged them up last night, initial impression is they have a deep soundstage and meaty bass, but not much extension in the treble and far too polite sounding, almost as if leading edge is compressed. They seem to be very good at separating voices, though, and putting some space between instruments. I'm hoping they relax a bit after some burn in. The CV455's should come next week.
> 
> I hope to get the Verite's together this weekend, as well as wire up my balanced cable. More to come!


Most tubes need quite a bit of burn in before they sound their best so give them some time. 

If, after than, you still want a bit more up top the RFT ECC81 might be the way to go. I am not exactly sure on the specifics of the ones I got but they were recommended by someone in this thread so hopefully they might be able to identify some for you.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Feb 8, 2022)

Hi All! Another update, the CV455's came in, fresh out of the box they sound almost exactly like the CV4033's, so both need burning in. I did find, after emailing the previous owner, that the supplied Amperex tubes were of the 6DJ8 variant, tested, and they do work but seem unremarkable (maybe need burn in too?). Got my Verite's together, going to need to change EQ to bring bass down a bit. Still haven't rewired balanced headphone chord, been real busy and the little spare time I have I'm listening to music. Got about 2 or so more weeks of craziness before things settle down and I have time for audio projects.

Already looking real close at pictures of Mjolnir circuit board, some cap mods are going to be easy and some are going to be tough, may even need to re-case to fit. I'll ponder for a while before I come up with a plan. What I don't want, this mod, is a lot of spare lead to each capacitor. That means, for bypassing the bigger caps, mounting from underside, hence the need of a re-case. A lot to consider...

The perfect step up in my mind, in terms of design, would have been to have an outboard power supply with umbilical. But that would have put it at a much higher price point. The HeadAmp GSX2 did that to pretty good effect, although solid state.

Anyway, Ya'll have a great night!


----------



## shafat777

Rowethren said:


> Most tubes need quite a bit of burn in before they sound their best so give them some time.
> 
> If, after than, you still want a bit more up top the RFT ECC81 might be the way to go. I am not exactly sure on the specifics of the ones I got but they were recommended by someone in this thread so hopefully they might be able to identify some for you.


Would you mind recommending some warm/ dark sounding tubes so it matches well with my LCD-5? Right now i am using rft ecc81 12at7 tubes and they seem a little too sparkly up top with the lcd5. I do have a set of cv455 brimars that i might pop in to see if it maches well. 

Thank you


----------



## jonathan c

shafat777 said:


> Would you mind recommending some warm/ dark sounding tubes so it matches well with my LCD-5? Right now i am using rft ecc81 12at7 tubes and they seem a little too sparkly up top with the lcd5. I do have a set of cv455 brimars that i might pop in to see if it maches well.
> 
> Thank you


…which hp cables are you using? A change there may get you to your destination.


----------



## Rowethren

shafat777 said:


> Would you mind recommending some warm/ dark sounding tubes so it matches well with my LCD-5? Right now i am using rft ecc81 12at7 tubes and they seem a little too sparkly up top with the lcd5. I do have a set of cv455 brimars that i might pop in to see if it maches well.
> 
> Thank you


Unfortunately I am not sure what to recommend for a darker sound. I am sure someone else in this thread can help though.


----------



## shafat777

jonathan c said:


> …which hp cables are you using? A change there may get you to your destination.


I am using a zmf 2k copper balanced for my lcd5


----------



## billerb1

Cardas Clear or even the Cardas Clear Light hp cables have the effect you're looking for on my setup.  Some Mullard version (I don't have any myself) might be a tube choice that gets you closer to that sound as well.


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> Cardas Clear or even the Cardas Clear Light hp cables have the effect you're looking for on my setup.  Some Mullard version (I don't have any myself) might be a tube choice that gets you closer to that sound as well.


It’s good to see a post from you! The avatar: it must be Telefunken or RFT inspired…😀


----------



## billerb1

Hi my friend.  Actually alternating between these gold pin supposed RFT's (Sammy and maybe Wes think they may actually be Mullards)
https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/...mium-rft-german-gold-pin-nos-valve-tube-lc39/
the Brimar 455's and my trusty Tele ECC801S's.  Sound has changed with the new flotilla of Audio Envy cables and cords.


----------



## billerb1

What's your take on the gold pins Wes ?  Are they really RFT's???  Nothing I have does kick drum and toms like these and the top end just sparkles with life.


----------



## Wes S (Feb 9, 2022)

billerb1 said:


> What's your take on the gold pins Wes ?  Are they really RFT's???  Nothing I have does kick drum and toms like these and the top end just sparkles with life.


I was thinking they are Mullards.  The way the top of the tube looks as well as the details of the top mica spacer, sure looks like Mullard to me.


----------



## billerb1

jonathan c said:


> …which hp cables are you using? A change there may get you to your destination.


You didn't buy them though?  I agree that they probably aren't RFT's.  Construction is certainly different than the RFT ECC81 foil getters.  If you haven't bought them, you might consider them.


----------



## Wes S

billerb1 said:


> You didn't buy them though?  I agree that they probably aren't RFT's.  Construction is certainly different than the RFT ECC81 foil getters.  If you haven't bought them, you might consider them.


I don't have any of those gold pins, but now that I know you are digging them, I am most likely going to be buying a pair soon.


----------



## jonathan c

Picture comparison: Langrex gold pin ECC81 and RFT ECC81 (foil getter). The Langrex micas are shaped differently from the RFT micas. RFT does not use the word ‘premium’. FWIW, I have never seen a gold pin RFT ECC81 🤷🏻‍♂️.


----------



## Wes S (Feb 9, 2022)

Here's a "Premium" E81CC with a Mullard label, that looks identical to the Langrex tube.


----------



## shafat777

Not sure if this helps, but here are the set of tubes that i was told were premium RFT ECC81. These are HALO getters. Oval ring connected to a single post.
https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/...mium-rft-german-gold-pin-nos-valve-tube-lc39/ 

These do have an amazing top end with lots of sparkle and air. The mids are gooey. Its the low end that I think can be improved. I also have a pair (unmatched) of RFT ecc81 that i put together from individual ebay purchases. These look similar to the tubes above but these have a flat foil/disc getter. These have almost the exact same sound signature of the langrex ones but these have thicker low end and overall much warmer sound. 

Now typically i was very happy with the langrex tubes because they were new/ nos testing and they do sound excellent.  However, i recently had my MJ2 cap modded which only increased the transparency and overall tonality of the amp. On top of that, i also use my LCD-5 and LCD XC 2021 version, both of which are not really bass heavy and these sound kinda thin with the langrex tubes. I also own a set of brimar cv455s as well as mullar ecc81 nos tubes that i m gonna try and see if that can help thicken the sound and make it a little more warm/dark. 

If anyone has any suggestion regarding tubes (of any price value) that might help me with a little more bass, i would really appreciate it.


----------



## billerb1 (Feb 10, 2022)

billerb1 said:


> Cardas Clear or even the Cardas Clear Light hp cables have the effect you're looking for on my setup.  Some Mullard version (I don't have any myself) might be a tube choice that gets you closer to that sound as well.


Upon further review, I guess I do have a pair of Mullards (the supposed Premium RFT ECC81 gold pins from Langrex) lol.   And besides the sparkly highs and liquid midrange, on my rig the bottom end beats most tubes I have.'

Edit:  On well recorded stuff the cymbal nuance accuracy of these tubes is, I think, the best I've heard.


----------



## roman410 (Feb 10, 2022)

shafat777 said:


> Not sure if this helps, but here are the set of tubes that i was told were premium RFT ECC81. These are HALO getters. Oval ring connected to a single post.
> https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/...mium-rft-german-gold-pin-nos-valve-tube-lc39/
> 
> These do have an amazing top end with lots of sparkle and air. The mids are gooey. Its the low end that I think can be improved. I also have a pair (unmatched) of RFT ecc81 that i put together from individual ebay purchases. These look similar to the tubes above but these have a flat foil/disc getter. These have almost the exact same sound signature of the langrex ones but these have thicker low end and overall much warmer sound.
> ...


Congratulation to your modded MJ2. First, same like vacuum tubes, new capacitors on your MJ2 need burn in. They need minimum 80-120h, before fully opened up.. That can be reason why your system it is sounding too thin.

For most thicker, warmer sounding tubes my recommendation is Western Electric JW2c51/394A. You need adapters for use on MJ2!
Most prominent bass from my collection have Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88 tubes.


----------



## shafat777

im enjoying the rft flat foil disc getter tubes more than the double post halo getters from langrex.


----------



## shafat777

However, after much a/b ing last night, i am currently satisfied with the brimar CV455, especially for the heavenly 3d soundstage those are famous for. The brimars also match really well with the lcd-5 by adding just enough low end boost. Im gonna burn these in for a while and try to get used to the sound.


----------



## bcowen

shafat777 said:


> However, after much a/b ing last night, i am currently satisfied with the brimar CV455, especially for the heavenly 3d soundstage those are famous for. The brimars also match really well with the lcd-5 by adding just enough low end boost. Im gonna burn these in for a while* and try to get used to the sound.*


First-world problems being what they are and all.  🤣🤣🤣


----------



## shafat777

bcowen said:


> First-world problems being what they are and all.  🤣🤣🤣


Yeah definitely. Well said


----------



## jonathan c

shafat777 said:


> However, after much a/b ing last night, i am currently satisfied with the brimar CV455, especially for the heavenly 3d soundstage those are famous for. The brimars also match really well with the lcd-5 by adding just enough low end boost. Im gonna burn these in for a while and try to get used to the sound.


…such torture 😖…🤣…🎼


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Feb 18, 2022)

Hey Everyone! Quick update, finally got the ZMF cables redone for balanced operation. Used FuruTech rhodium connectors so, as you would expect, some serious burn in is needed (rhodium out of the gate is pretty harsh in the treble). They look good and have good strain relief, made from Moon Audio Silver Dragon cable, so should be a keeper.

In other news, decided to give a set of these a try ( https://pulsetubestore.com/search?q=CV3986 ), the mini-Mullard CV3986 w/risers. Should be in in a week or so. Someone on these forums, I believe a Valhalla owner, raves about them. Without the bases, tubes are relatively cheap, so want to evaluate for future purchases.

I'm moving out over the weekend for a few months to facilitate the renovation, so I'll be re-setting up the system. Good time to clean contacts, route cables, etc.

Ya'll have a great weekend!!!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Wow, gang! Guess what just arrived 1 & 1/2 weeks early! The mini-Mullards! And guess who just finished re-setting up their system! C'est moi!!! I'm like a kid at Christmas. Wish me luck, I might not get much sleep this weekend (late night sessions).

Have a great night/mornin!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Feb 22, 2022)

Hi All! Been a tough weekend, but finally fully moved out and ready for construction/renovation. But I have gotten some listening in, about a couple of hours per night, but I was sooo sleepy, so couldn’t do more than that.

I can say that the mini-Mullards are highly recommended with one caveat. If you don’t EQ and your not too bass heavy already look elsewhere.I had to boost from 2000 down by about 2.5 db from where I was with my Verite’s, just a scootch more at 32Hz. But I am just loving the results! These tubes haven’t been nearly burned in, nor my cables, and already beat the Brimars in several areas.They are detail monsters, make me want to mod my amp right now to see what they’re capable of. Reminds me a little of the air between instruments I used to get from my Conrad Johnson PV9 preamp thru Apogee Stages, not quite that good but very noticeable. You can tell the noise floor is nearly non-existent, as you can here deep into the fade out of a song. Voice , boosted as described, is full and meaty. Separation between instruments was excellent on a Boston symphony version of Ravels’ Bolero. Steely Dan was jamming, and I found myself wanting to listen to albums instead of tracks. Listened to Aja, Counting Crows Recovering the Satellites, and the Wallflowers Bringing Down the Horse, as well as a little War. Great fun.

I ended up buying another set of them from Pulse tube store, as well as 2 pr each of flying lead cv3986’s from Phillips, RCA, Jan, and another GB pair. Will have to source bases, but the prices on these are right, best stock up now.

I’m thinking hard on the Mods for the Mjolnir. I think I may have a way to mod the case to fit it all, but it will tank any resell value And it will definitely not be svelt.

Anyway, hope to have more news for ya’ll later. Have a great night!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Feb 22, 2022)

Hi All!

I'm hoping Ksorota or someone else who's modded Mjolnir2 might help. In your modding of the Mjolnir, might you have taken some internal board pics? All pics I see online only show view of board from LH front. Might you share other views? I will eventually get to taking some myself, but it will be a few weeks fefore I can get to it.  They might give me a better idea of what I'm in store for with modding. Thanks either way for the consideration!

Edit: Wow, after re-reading this, it sounds like I’m calling him out!?! My apologies, was at work and needed to keep it brief. Sorry, will edit!!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hi All!
> 
> I'm hoping Ksorota or someone else who's modded Mjolnir2 might help. In your modding of the Mjolnir, might you have taken some internal board pics? All pics I see online only show view of board from LH front. Might you share other views? I will eventually get to taking some myself, but it will be a few weeks fefore I can get to it.  They might give me a better idea of what I'm in store for with modding. Thanks either way for the consideration!
> 
> Edit: Wow, after re-reading this, it sounds like I’m calling him out!?! My apologies, was at work and needed to keep it brief. Sorry, will edit!!!


I'm sure @ksorota will chime in at some point. Here's a pic of mine after the mod if it helps. 


Before pic


----------



## ksorota

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hi All!
> 
> I'm hoping Ksorota or someone else who's modded Mjolnir2 might help. In your modding of the Mjolnir, might you have taken some internal board pics? All pics I see online only show view of board from LH front. Might you share other views? I will eventually get to taking some myself, but it will be a few weeks fefore I can get to it.  They might give me a better idea of what I'm in store for with modding. Thanks either way for the consideration!
> 
> Edit: Wow, after re-reading this, it sounds like I’m calling him out!?! My apologies, was at work and needed to keep it brief. Sorry, will edit!!!



I actually do not have any other pictures that best what @Guidostrunk has shared above.  The swap of parts is not terribly difficult, but their are some areas where you need to take special caution.  I can also give you a parts list if you send me a PM.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Thanks Guidostrunk! That helps some....Hmmm. I'm no engineer, but I'm guessing from that pic that all voltage rails are using some sort of regulator. That might actually make things easier. Will have to get out my meter and do a little tracing in the future. Thanks again!!!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Feb 22, 2022)

Thanks Ksorota! I was hoping someone had a pic of those orange caps at the far right, but that's OK. I appreciate the reply! Thanks again!!!

In terms of the parts list, you have a post buried earlier in this thread that gave the values of what you replaced, as well as layout, and that has been helpful as well!!!


----------



## roman410

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Thanks Ksorota! I was hoping someone had a pic of those orange caps at the far right, but that's OK. I appreciate the reply! Thanks again!!!
> 
> In terms of the parts list, you have a post buried earlier in this thread that gave the values of what you replaced, as well as layout, and that has been helpful as well!!!


I will also considering replace this Wima MKP film capacitors, for same better or even boutique, if the space will alloved. I thing so, they are coupling caps.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

roman410 said:


> I will also considering replace this Wima MKP film capacitors, for same better or even boutique, if the space will alloved. I thing so, they are coupling caps.


Hey, saw that, and already have a cap in mind. Thinking the Auricap XO might be the best fit. Reasonable price, I used them to very good effect on a Burson HA-160 soloist, and they’re not huge.


----------



## audiargent

Just wanted to ask a question. I noticed people are suggesting using 12AT7s with socket adaptors.

Can someone advise me what tubes from the 12XX7 series I can use (AU or AX?)

I know they vary in gain factor, but not sure if the Mjolnir 2 can handle them all.

Thanks!


----------



## Guidostrunk

audiargent said:


> Just wanted to ask a question. I noticed people are suggesting using 12AT7s with socket adaptors.
> 
> Can someone advise me what tubes from the 12XX7 series I can use (AU or AX?)
> 
> ...


12ax7 is too high of gain. 12au7 and 12at7 are good to go.


----------



## shafat777 (Feb 23, 2022)

audiargent said:


> Just wanted to ask a question. I noticed people are suggesting using 12AT7s with socket adaptors.
> 
> Can someone advise me what tubes from the 12XX7 series I can use (AU or AX?)
> 
> ...


Anything 12au7 and 12at7 should work with adapters. Ive been running those two sets with adapters for months and they do sound much better than stock 6922/ecc88 tubes. 12au7 has less gain than 12at7 (please correct me if im wrong). I enjoy my brimar 12au7 for top end extension and 12at7 from low end clarity.

My 2 cents


----------



## audiargent

Guidostrunk said:


> 12ax7 is too high of gain. 12au7 and 12at7 are good to go.


But would it harm the amp?

What about 5751, 12AY7, 12DW7 (JJ Tubes)?

Really appreciated your answer, thanks!


----------



## Guidostrunk

audiargent said:


> But would it harm the amp?
> 
> What about 5751, 12AY7, 12DW7 (JJ Tubes)?
> 
> Really appreciated your answer, thanks!


Those i believe only run at 12v. They don't have the center tap for 6.3v 
The 12ax7 won't hurt the amp but you literally have no volume control lol.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Those i believe only run at 12v. They don't have the center tap for 6.3v
> The 12ax7 won't hurt the amp but you literally have no volume control lol.


It’s good to see you post…😀. The 12AX7 in the MJ-II would be like the Liquid Platinum: everything past ‘ten o’clock’ volume is unusable 🤷🏻‍♂️🤬…


----------



## audiargent

Guidostrunk said:


> Those i believe only run at 12v. They don't have the center tap for 6.3v
> The 12ax7 won't hurt the amp but you literally have no volume control lol.


Which ones please?

12DW7?


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> It’s good to see you post…😀. The 12AX7 in the MJ-II would be like the Liquid Platinum: everything past ‘ten o’clock’ volume is unusable 🤷🏻‍♂️🤬…


Lots of work travel bro. Then I was without a phone for almost 2 weeks coz our work trucks got robbed lol. I'm away again for another 2 weeks possibly 3. Depending on who shows up or calls off 😂


----------



## Guidostrunk

audiargent said:


> Which ones please?
> 
> 12DW7?


@bcowen may be the one to answer your question on those other variants. Any of the 12 family would have to be able to run at 6.3v and not exceed 400ma.


----------



## bcowen

Guidostrunk said:


> @bcowen may be the one to answer your question on those other variants. Any of the 12 family would have to be able to run at 6.3v and not exceed 400ma.


All 3 of the tubes listed are dual voltage, and all share the same pinout (which is also the same for the 12AU7 and 12AT7).  The 5751 has slightly higher heater current (350 mA's at 6.3v), but still within the 400 mA maximum recommended.   Biggest differences are in amplification factors: 70 for the 5751, 44 for the 12AY7 and 100/20 for the 12DW7 (see below).  The 12AU7 has an amplification factor of 20 and the 12AT7 is 60 just for reference.
























I have never used a 12DW7 and am not familiar with it. But from the data sheet description it has 2 dissimilar triodes, one with the gain of a 12AX7 (100) and the other with the gain of a 12AU7 (20).  Not sure what this would do in the MJ2 circuit, but for lack of better information it's not something I would try personally.  Not much risk in it harming the amp, but it may sound like ass.


----------



## ksorota

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hi All!
> 
> I'm hoping Ksorota or someone else who's modded Mjolnir2 might help. In your modding of the Mjolnir, might you have taken some internal board pics? All pics I see online only show view of board from LH front. Might you share other views? I will eventually get to taking some myself, but it will be a few weeks fefore I can get to it.  They might give me a better idea of what I'm in store for with modding. Thanks either way for the consideration!
> 
> Edit: Wow, after re-reading this, it sounds like I’m calling him out!?! My apologies, was at work and needed to keep it brief. Sorry, will edit!!!



I have an MJ2 open right now.  Anything else you need to see?


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

ksorota said:


> I have an MJ2 open right now.  Anything else you need to see?


Could I see the value of those orange film caps on the RH side? And any pics of the underside of the board? Thanks!!!


----------



## ksorota

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Could I see the value of those orange film caps on the RH side? And any pics of the underside of the board? Thanks!!!









Nothing much to worry about on the underside of the board. I already mounted the boards so done really want to take it off again 😵‍💫. Next time i’ll do underside also.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Feb 24, 2022)

ksorota said:


> Nothing much to worry about on the underside of the board. I already mounted the boards so done really want to take it off again 😵‍💫. Next time i’ll do underside also.


You are awesome!!!

So let me spitball the layout, using a lot of assumptions. Power supply has a single High voltage rail for the tubes that’s regulated further than the RC network of the caps (680 uF ones), a highly regulated  low voltage supply section of 4 rails (approx 18 to 20 Volts plus and minus, two per channel, 8200  caps) that powers the FET/solid state amplification, an unregulated 12 volt supply for power switching relays and led’s, and a 6.3 volt regulated supply for the tube heaters. Input to solid state buffer/1st gain stage to volume control to tube voltage gain stage to current gain/mosfet stage to output. And I’m thinking the film caps must be signal path caps connecting to input and output of tube. Does that sound right?


----------



## ksorota

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> You are awesome!!!
> 
> So let me spitball the layout, using a lot of assumptions. Power supply has a single High voltage rail for the tubes that’s regulated further than the RC network of the caps (680 uF ones), a highly regulated  low voltage supply section of 4 rails (approx 18 to 20 Volts plus and minus, two per channel, 8200  and 1000 uF caps) that powers the FET/solid state amplification, an unregulated 12 volt supply for power switching relays and led’s, and a 6.3 volt regulated supply for the tube heaters. Input to solid state buffer/1st gain stage to volume control to tube voltage gain stage to current gain/mosfet stage to output. And I’m thinking the film caps must be signal path caps connecting to input and output of tube. Does that sound right?



Thats as good a theory as I could come up with!!!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Feb 24, 2022)

Ok, let me revise a little. The lowest voltage rail is the heater rail, likely running off 6.3 volts. The lowest rated caps coming off the transformers are the 25 volt 1000 uF ones. Heater supplies are often unregulated, just an RC network to take care of ripple, so that supply is likely unregulated, not the 12 volt one. So what are those 4 - 25v 1000 uF caps around the tube doing? Only thing I can think of is if the heaters are being split powered, and the extra  circuitry is local regulation to the heater, and each section of the heater being powered separately, but I’m reaching there. We know 12a tubes have a center tap on the heater, but what advantage would powering individually each heater section give over paralleling? I’m missing something.


----------



## ksorota

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Ok, let me revise a little. The lowest voltage rail is the heater rail, likely running off 6.3 volts. The lowest rated caps coming off the transformers are the 25 volt 1000 uF ones. Heater supplies are often unregulated, just an RC network to take care of ripple, so that supply is likely unregulated, not the 12 volt one. So what are those 4 - 25v 1000 uF caps around the tube doing? Only thing I can think of is if the heaters are being split powered, and the extra  circuitry is local regulation to the heater, and each section of the heater being powered separately, but I’m reaching there. We know 12a tubes have a center tap on the heater, but what advantage would powering each heater section give over paralleling? I’m missing something.






Some more info. Also check out Jason’s introduction to mj2. Lots of technical info provided.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Feb 24, 2022)

ksorota said:


> Some more info. Also check out Jason’s introduction to mj2. Lots of technical info provided.


I was using transformers voltage labels as base for my spitballing. 

Jason’s intro to Mjolnir 2?


----------



## ksorota

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> I was using transformers voltage labels as base for my spitballing.
> 
> Jason’s intro to Mjolnir 2?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...obable-start-up.701900/page-495#post-11852665


----------



## ksorota

Snowing up here in Mass! Good thing the MJ2 gets nice and warm.  

Two days ago it was 70 degrees out, now we are looking at up to 12 inches of snow


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Feb 25, 2022)

Interesting read so far, Thanks!!! Not quite up to Yggdrasil nor Ragnarok, but pretty entertaining! Didn't know this forum was part of the Schiit story. Cool!

Enjoy the snow, hopefully last of the season!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Anyone heard from @G0rt ? I'm curious if he ever got the 6sn7 adapters in and working lol


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Anyone heard from @G0rt ? I'm curious if he ever got the 6sn7 adapters in and working lol


Not since end of 2021…🤔


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> Not since end of 2021…🤔


Wow that long ago? I hope he's ok.


----------



## Guidostrunk

How's @TK16  doing these days? Hope all is well bro.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> Wow that long ago? I hope he's ok.


“Last seen: Yesterday at 9:04pm”…thread was not specified.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> How's @TK16  doing these days? Hope all is well bro.


“Last seen: Yesterday at 8:04PM”…thread not specified also.


----------



## jonathan c

Guidostrunk said:


> How's @TK16  doing these days? Hope all is well bro.


It _has _been a while!


----------



## Guidostrunk

jonathan c said:


> It _has _been a while!


Tom's like me at the poker table. If there's no action, you won't see me sitting at it 😂😂😂


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> “Last seen: Yesterday at 8:04PM”…thread not specified also.


Do you have a link to this "Thread not specified" place?  If @G0rt and @TK16 are hanging out there, it's gotta be good.  🤣🤣


----------



## Guidostrunk

bcowen said:


> Do you have a link to this "Thread not specified" place?  If @G0rt and @TK16 are hanging out there, it's gotta be good.  🤣🤣


😂😂😂


----------



## jonathan c (Feb 26, 2022)




----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Mar 5, 2022)

Hi All! Thought I might give Ya'll an update.

I've been mulling over how I wish to cap mod this puppy, Where I want to do film cap bypasses, where I want to do electrolytics, and what brands to use. Been pouring over Parts Connexion and HiFi Collective, mainly, looking at parts PDFs for sizing, etc.

I'm thinking the main voltage rails straight off the bridge rectifiers should first be bypassed by a 1% low ESR audio electrolytic cap (AudioNote Kaisei,Elna Silmic II, Nichicon FG). Because the caps are smaller value, their ESR value's  should be lower than the cap they are bypassing. This should give me 80% or better of the improvement of replacing the original cap. Then, bypassing that with a film cap that is 1% of the smaller value electrolytic. It's overkill, but the point is to make ESR as low as possible so that the time constant (flow out of cap on demand) is also low. I could use a compact WIMA MKP-10 polypropylene for the film cap, and that would also keep costs down. Unfortunately, to have a solid place to solder everything up, I'm going to have to purchase the big caps so I have enough lead to solder the others to, upping the cost.

So the next question is which rails to do and how far do I go. By the Schiit Story Ksorota linked (Thanks, good reading!) I learned that our voltage rails are 1X200V,4X25V,2X18V,& 2X6V. All are regulated to some degree, I'm imagining but haven't confirmed that the 4X25V has the most regulation, followed by the 200V. So will probable do the bypass/bypass on those. Might do a single bypass on the 18V and 6 V, not sure.

The  film caps at the 1st gain stage on left and the coupling caps on the tube output stage to the Mosfets are Wima MKP4's, sort of the entry point in terms of quality for film caps. They are alright, but can be improved upon greatly. The problem is size, all better than average film caps tend to be 2X to 10X the size. Best value in a really good sounding cap that's relatively small are the Auricap XO's, but I've heard some press that states too many of them in an amp topology can start sounding bland. Mundorf Supreme caps are highly rated and are said to have a lively top end, but they're also 3 or more times the price. And how am I going to modify case to fit them? Decisions, Decisions!!!

I inadvertantly may have found an answer (case fit) thru a strange turnof events. So once I got home form work, I went to power on my Mjolnir, and nothing happened, no LED's lit, no relays clicked, etc. Checked the IEC plug, checked the wall, checked the power filter, removed the tubes, still nothing. So I had to take apart the Mjolnir to check the fuse. While apart, I gave a good inspection of the case and circuit board. Neat design of the case, I had read about the joggle they used for the case, but seeing it up close really was an eye opener. I think a new bottom plate could be made with a deeper stepped series of bends instead of a joggle, longer stand-offs installed, and an aluminum 'bridge' heat sink and sides/rear extension added, the HS sandwiched between the Mosfets and the bottom plate. Same heat transfer, use the current bottom plate as a template, heck, I think it might be a perfect solution. I can add as much space for the underside capacitors as I want! It may not even be that dificult a piece to have formed, as (unlike Schiit) I don't care about the finish.

Looked over things with a fine tooth comb, couldn't figure what kept Mjolnir from powering up, but tried again with case removed, and it works fine. Recased, it seems to be running fine. Will have to keep an eye on it.

Recieved my other mini-mullard pair of tubes from Pulse, and my DBTubes order came in with the flying lead 6021's from RCA and Jan Phillips. Still awaiting other 6021's from Langrex. Will have to order and adapt sockets, seems I saw a post by Bcowen where he did something similar. I'll have another look.

That's about all the news I have, time for some listening! Have a great weekend!!!


----------



## bcowen (Mar 5, 2022)

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hi All! Thought I might give Ya'll an update.
> 
> I've been mulling over how I wish to cap mod this puppy, Where I want to do film cap bypasses, where I want to do electrolytics, and what brands to use. Been pouring over Parts Connexion and HiFi Collective, mainly, looking at parts PDFs for sizing, etc.
> 
> ...


This is a Mullard CV3986 (6021).  $25 a pair back when I bought them.

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/acl0127.htm

I just soldered it into a run-of-the-mill 9 pin socket saver.  Not the most elegant approach, but I wanted to get it up and running to see if the sonics merited a fancier implementation.  This works just fine electrically, but puts a blip on the OCD radar.   

In the tester making sure I wired it up correctly:




PVC pipe with perfect inner diameter to fit over the inset top lip of the socket saver found in the garage, leftover from some previous project:




Painted black just to not look totally ugly:




Different application with a 1954 Melz 6N16B-I (a 6N8S / 6SN7 analog) in an octal base. These were almost free ($13 for 5 of them), and I was hoping they'd get close to the $100+ Melz 1578. Didn't quite hit that mark, but they are very, very close to the regular Melz 6N8S that go for $40+ a tube these days.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Mar 5, 2022)

Hey Bcowen! So, what was your impression of the mini-mullard? If I remember right, you’ve got a fair collection of tubes, including a few ‘endgame’ ones. How did the Mullard compare?

By the way, the corrosion patina on that tube amp is really striking!


----------



## bcowen

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hey Bcowen! So, what was your impression of the mini-mullard? If I remember right, you’ve got a fair collection of tubes, including a few ‘endgame’ ones. How did the Mullard compare?


Best description is that it sounds Mullard-ey.   Warm, lots of midrange bloom and harmonic info, treble that's laid back but doesn't necessarily sound rolled off, and kind of blobular in the bass (lacking definition).  To be fair I only listened to it in the Vali 2, which being an inexpensive hybrid is not the best platform for really analyzing a tube. I like it OK, just not one of my favorites in that amp.



ShortBtwnHdset said:


> By the way, the corrosion patina on that tube amp is really striking!


Thanks!  It was built by fellow HeadFi'er @Paladin79 and he gets all the credit for the artistic vision.


----------



## Paladin79 (Mar 5, 2022)

bcowen said:


> Best description is that it sounds Mullard-ey.   Warm, lots of midrange bloom and harmonic info, treble that's laid back but doesn't necessarily sound rolled off, and kind of blobular in the bass (lacking definition).  To be fair I only listened to it in the Vali 2, which being an inexpensive hybrid is not the best platform for really analyzing a tube. I like it OK, just not one of my favorites in that amp.
> 
> 
> Thanks!  It was built by fellow HeadFi'er @Paladin79 and he gets all the credit for the artistic vision.


Here are a couple others I did.I do not recall being in this thread before but I do own a Mjolnir 2 of course. I also built one with a Faraday cage when I did more Steampunk designs.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

WOW,  those are some FAR OUT DESIGNS! The external stepped attenuators really do make me think Steampunk! Very Cool!!!


----------



## Paladin79 (Mar 6, 2022)

Thanks the amp on the right is a Bottlehead Crack I modified, the one on the left and bottom is my personal Incubus Elegan amp. I modded headphones and made a headphone rack for the BH Crack.






woods used are quartered oak and burled honey locust that is never easy to find.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Hey Paladin79! Beautifully done, works of art! Your cabinetry and styling are tasty! Wayyyy out of my league, though! Plus I imagine you have some waiting list!

Thanks for posting pics!!!


----------



## Paladin79

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hey Paladin79! Beautifully done, works of art! Your cabinetry and styling are tasty! Wayyyy out of my league, though! Plus I imagine you have some waiting list!
> 
> Thanks for posting pics!!!


I am trying to back away from building any more other than one for my son and a friend in the DC area. Those will be gifts, I have given seven of them away. I can spend up to three weekends on the cabinet alone and I need time for new projects.   

Here is a SET amp I built to win a bet, some of the tubes are WW 2 vintage. I only made one of those and kept it.   Wood is butternut and tiger maple.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Mar 7, 2022)

WW2 tubes, WOW, that's both awsome and totally nuts!!! Nice! Has someone submitted you on the 'Best Looking Amp' thread? I can't imagine they haven't, but not about to parse all 119 pages to find out. Can't afford those tastes (Ohhhh, SHINY!!! ✨✨✨😲😉)!


----------



## Paladin79 (Mar 7, 2022)

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> WW2 tubes, WOW, that's both awsome and totally nuts!!! Nice! Has someone submitted you on the 'Best Looking Amp' thread? I can't imagine they haven't, but not about to parse all 119 pages to find out. Can't afford those tastes (Ohhhh, SHINY!!! ✨✨✨😲😉)!


I am in enough threads as is lol. I built over fifty OTL amps, mostly for local friends so I have lots of photos. No two are alike. @bcowen's is the only one I built sideways. 

I do not want to disrupt this thread but here is another photo or two.


----------



## bcowen

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> *WW2 tubes, WOW, that's both awsome and totally nuts!!! *Nice! Has someone submitted you on the 'Best Looking Amp' thread? I can't imagine they haven't, but not about to parse all 119 pages to find out. Can't afford those tastes (Ohhhh, SHINY!!! ✨✨✨😲😉)!


They had just rolled off the production line when he bought them back in high school.  😂


----------



## Paladin79

bcowen said:


> They had just rolled off the production line when he bought them back in high school.  😂


Not quite but I did have tube theory in college and RCA was still building a few hybrid TV's when I hired in there. I loved to play around with the old Dynaco tube gear.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Holy Crap, I just noticed your "Clockwork Orange" sig, Droog'!!!


----------



## Paladin79 (Mar 7, 2022)

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Holy Crap, I just noticed your "Clockwork Orange" sig, Droog'!!!


Not everyone gets that, good pickup. A shot of my Mjolnir with other gear. I made my own rack with solid cherry and copper.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Mar 7, 2022)

Hey Paladin79, let me ask you a question, since you've built many cases. Who should I source making a new sheet metal bottom plate for my Mjolnir? Cap modding this while trying to keep leads short isn't really going to fit in original case, and I'm not sure how to proceed. It's a one of, so I don't imagine I can get it done by a commercial shop, but I may be wrong. Any ideas???

(By the way, this IS NOT a challenge for you building another case!!!)


----------



## Paladin79 (Mar 7, 2022)

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hey Paladin79, let me ask you a question, since you've built many cases. Who should I source making a new sheet metal bottom plate for my Mjolnir? Cap modding this while trying to keep leads short isn't really going to fit in original case, and I'm not sure how to proceed. It's a one of, so I don't imagine I can get it done by a commercial shop, but I may be wrong. Any ideas???
> 
> (By the way, this IS NOT a challenge for you building another case!!!)


I only use hardwoods and copper plate so I do not have an easy answer. I did buy a DarkVoice so I could measure it build Mr Cowen this cabinet extension.  I am trying to stop doing such things since I would end up working seven days a week. Cowen is an exception we have helped each other out on a few occasions and I do not think twice about helping him out.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Mar 7, 2022)

Actually, thinking about it again, it could be done with aluminum U channel. Just need a sheet metal shop to cut lengths and transfer holes. The front piece would have to be reversed, though.

Edit: I also like the extension in wood idea, I just dont' have a way to do it (nor would I hope for you to!). Worst case scenario, I can get a portable drill press and a hacksaw, a jointer/planer/plus finishing tools are beyond my means/living arrangements.


----------



## bcowen

Paladin79 said:


> I only use hardwoods and copper plate so I do not have an easy answer. I did buy a DarkVoice so I could measure it build Mr Cowen this cabinet extension.  I am trying to stop doing such things since I would end up working seven days a week. Cowen is an exception we have helped each other out on a few occasions and I do not think twice about helping him out.


And it's a perfect fit too, I might add.  Here it is at home on its matching stand, and it even looks like the tiger came from the same maple.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Mar 7, 2022)

Tiger stripe maple is really some beautiful wood when you know what to do with it. I used to run a guitar repair shop, was always fascinated with tigerstripe, curly, quilted, and bear claw growth patterns in wood. PRS does some contrasting stains in their top grade tops that just really allways wowed me. Check this example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/323743130227?hash=item4b60982273:g:m18AAOxyVLNS1Zw1

makes me think of water ripples in a pool! Their top grade tiger stripe tops are the bomb as well!


----------



## Paladin79

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Tiger strip maple is really some beautiful wood when you know what to do with it. I used to run a guitar repair shop, was always fascinated with tigerstrip, curly, quilted, and bear claw growth patterns in wood. PRS does some contrasting stains in their top grade tops that just really always wowed me. Check this example:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/323743130227?hash=item4b60982273:g:m18AAOxyVLNS1Zw1
> 
> makes me think of water ripples in a pool! Their Tiger stripes are the bomb as well!


My son’s bar top. I am a fan of cherry as well as maple.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Wise choice in the edging, did you seal the end-grain with epoxy?


----------



## Paladin79

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Wise choice in the edging, did you seal the end-grain with epoxy?


My son did that, I never asked. He lives in Virginia.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

In Mjolnir news(sorry, didn't mean to hijack!) , recieved my package from Langrex, 2 more quad sets of 6021's to play with. So now I need to order socket risers and solder up  a few sets to try.


----------



## bcowen

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Tiger stripe maple is really some beautiful wood when you know what to do with it. I used to run a guitar repair shop, was always fascinated with tigerstripe, curly, quilted, and bear claw growth patterns in wood. PRS does some contrasting stains in their top grade tops that just really always wowed me. Check this example:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/323743130227?hash=item4b60982273:g:m18AAOxyVLNS1Zw1
> 
> makes me think of water ripples in a pool! Their top grade tiger stripe tops are the bomb as well!


Now that is _way_ cool. Hey @Paladin79 forget the dovetails, now I want this. 🤣

Then I'll get some ZMF VC's to (kind of) match:


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Mar 7, 2022)

Sorry to get off topic again, this is back to Paladin79! Have you ever considered using a Gretsch knob for volume? Old style already has a G on it for gain, always wanted to see someone use one for a tube amp.

https://tvjones.com/official-gretsch-g-arrow-control-knob/


----------



## Paladin79

I will have to check those out sometime, I am not familiar with those. I have used knobs from antique radios, Fender guitars, and even fashioned some out of wood myself. I have used a type called chicken heads I believe.


----------



## bcowen

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Sorry to get off topic again, this is back to Paladin79! Have you ever considered using a Gretsch knob for volume? Old style already has a G on it for gain, always wanted to see someone use one for a tube amp.
> 
> https://tvjones.com/official-gretsch-g-arrow-control-knob/


LOL!  When I first glanced at that, I thought it said G-spot.

(no need to say what you're thinking....its probably true )


----------



## shafat777

What is the bassiest, thickest/ punchiest low end tube that yall have used for this amp? I am looking for 12au7/12at7 variants. I am looking for a set of tubes that will help my LCD-5 gain some low end punch. Thank you.


----------



## busseysound

shafat777 said:


> What is the bassiest, thickest/ punchiest low end tube that yall have used for this amp? I am looking for 12au7/12at7 variants. I am looking for a set of tubes that will help my LCD-5 gain some low end punch. Thank you.


For me it would have to be the Brimar CV455 from Langrex.  I haven't tried many of the other Brimar's out there however so take that for what it's worth.


----------



## jonathan c

shafat777 said:


> What is the bassiest, thickest/ punchiest low end tube that yall have used for this amp? I am looking for 12au7/12at7 variants. I am looking for a set of tubes that will help my LCD-5 gain some low end punch. Thank you.


If you want strong, sculpted bass from a 12AT7 type of tube, try the Mullard gold pin 6201. 👍


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Mar 29, 2022)

Hi all! Quick update, the tube risers I’ll be using for the 6021’s came in, hope to solder a few tube sets up next weekend. Also ordered a set of Mazda 12at7’s, should get in next week. And I’m slowly gathering supplies for the bypass cap mod for my Mjolnir, got about half of it collected so far. Parts availability, particularly for the larger electrolytics, is proving a challenge. May end up splitting job into stages. May also try and post a parts list once I get everything together. Anyway, I’m currently out of town, so hope to have another update this weekend. Have a great night!


----------



## Adnan Firoze

This may sound weird but if anyone wants to sell their MJ2 unit, please let me know. I love mine and got it from the amazing @ksorota . I just want to have one as backup. hahaha. I know this sounds crazy but since you can't buy them from Schiit, it's always a good idea to have one than not of something you love.


----------



## Paladin79 (Mar 31, 2022)

Adnan Firoze said:


> This may sound weird but if anyone wants to sell their MJ2 unit, please let me know. I love mine and got it from the amazing @ksorota . I just want to have one as backup. hahaha. I know this sounds crazy but since you can't buy them from Schiit, it's always a good idea to have one than not of something you love.


I rarely use mine, PM me and we can discuss it. It is also feasible that we could meet some place in say Indianapolis if we came to an agreement. I am in the process of upgrading a lot of my gear and have an extra Bifrost 2, speakers, headphones, etc.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Hey All! So there is a lot of conjecture over what Schiit is going to be releasing on the April 13th Schiit meet. How likely do you think it will be a replaement for the Mjolnir 2, and how likely do you think it is that it will use tubes? Especially after all the supply chain problems since Covid fouled the world, and givn that you can't order tubes from Schiits' webstore, I'm thinking they will release a headphone amp in the Mjolnir price bracket, but purely solid state.


----------



## bcowen

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hey All! So there is a lot of conjecture over what Schiit is going to be releasing on the April 13th Schiit meet. How likely do you think it will be a replaement for the Mjolnir 2, and how likely do you think it is that it will use tubes? Especially after all the supply chain problems since Covid fouled the world, and givn that you can't order tubes from Schiits' webstore, I'm thinking they will release a headphone amp in the Mjolnir price bracket, but purely solid state.


I think the next tubed HP amp they will release will be the Folkvangr.  If I’m wrong, I’ll at least be consistent.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> I think the next tubed HP amp they will release will be the Folkvangr.  If I’m wrong, I’ll at least be consistent.


If the h/p/a uses eight Foton 6N6Ps and two 6922s…..call it Cowenvangr….🤣


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Mar 31, 2022)

Wow, looked up a release photo of the Folkvangr, yipes!!! I think I'll stay with my Mjolnir 2, I couldn't afford to re-tube a Folkvangr with anything better than stock tubes! This one will quickly kill your spares collection! Bet it sounds amazing, though!!!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Mar 31, 2022)

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Wow, looked up a release photo of the Folkvangr, yipes!!! I think I'll stay with my Mjolnir 2, I couldn't afford to re-tube a Folkvangr (with anything better than stock tubes)!




edit: I don't know what happened here, can"t seem to delete either. Sorry!


----------



## Paladin79

jonathan c said:


> If the h/p/a uses eight Foton 6N6Ps and two 6922s…..call it Cowenvangr….🤣


I already named an amp after Cowen, it was rustic and smelled of pork bar-b-cue. Once it was refined I renamed it the Finnegan.😜😜


----------



## bcowen

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Wow, looked up a release photo of the Folkvangr, yipes!!! I think I'll stay with my Mjolnir 2, I couldn't afford to re-tube a Folkvangr with anything better than stock tubes! This one will quickly kill your spares collection! Bet it sounds amazing, though!!!


Some people stashed up on '50's box plate Foton 6N6P's before the prices went nuts.  Not me, of course....I would never do that.


----------



## bcowen

Paladin79 said:


> I already named an amp after Cowen, it was rustic and smelled of pork bar-b-cue. Once it was *refelined* I renamed it the Finnegan.😜😜


FTFY.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Apr 2, 2022)

Hi All!

Back in town, just got off the plane a few hours ago, and look what came to the door! Unfortunately, can't listen, because that intermittent problem is back. Third time it has happened, turn on amp, no lights, no relays click, nothing. Last two times, taking circuit board out of case seemed to jog whatever to the point of powering on, but doesn't seem to be happening now. Looked over topside of board, I don't see any cold solder joints offhand. Hope to get further tools tommorrow and take off bottom plate, maybe touch up a solder joint or two, and spray out the power switch. I'm a bit disappointed, though. Anyway, have a great night!!!!


----------



## ksorota

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hi All!
> 
> Back in town, just got off the plane a few hours ago, and look what came to the door! Unfortunately, can't listen, because that intermittent problem is back. Third time it has happened, turn on amp, no lights, no relays click, nothing. Last two times, taking circuit board out of case seemed to jog whatever to the point of powering on, but doesn't seem to be happening now. Looked over topside of board, I don't see any cold solder joints offhand. Hope to get further tools tommorrow and take off bottom plate, maybe touch up a solder joint or two, and spray out the power switch. I'm a bit disappointed, though. Anyway, have a great night!!!!



Similar problem (likely the same) turned out to be the power switch itself failing. Replaced the switch and it was good as new!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Hey Ksorota! You wouldn’t happen to have that switch part number, would you?


----------



## ksorota

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hey Ksorota! You wouldn’t happen to have that switch part number, would you?



I’ll look up the order number later today. But any toggle power switch with 6 legs should work.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

ksorota said:


> I’ll look up the order number later today. But any toggle power switch with 6 legs should work.


You are the man!!! I’ve got to find some blue shower or other cleaner and see if spraying the switch out will bring it up temporarily. Thanks Ksorota!!!


----------



## bcowen

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> You are the man!!! I’ve got to find some blue shower or other cleaner and see if spraying the switch out will bring it up temporarily. Thanks Ksorota!!!


This may sound entirely stupid, but I'd check the fuse too. I had an issue before (different component) where the fuse didn't actually blow, but the internal wire separated from the end cap leading to an intermittent connection as it would make contact at times but not at others.  I about went insane troubleshooting that one.


----------



## ksorota

@ShortBtwnHdset 

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/swit...-250vac-2a-120vac-5a-gold-plated-p-13027.html

This is the part I ordered.  Since they were an international sale I ended up ordering 5 of them.  If I can find them tonight I can send you one. I have not had luck with a quick search, but they cannot be far. 

I agree with @bcowen,  Check the fuse as well as I have had the same experience with a diff. amp.  

I found some others recently on Mouser that probably work, but you would have to check the specs.  The ones from Audiophonics are rated high enough to work for sure.  The only slight change is that the toggle is shorter than the stock Schiit one.


----------



## shafat777

Can anyone please tell me if they have tried Brimar CV455 vs Brimar CV4033 tubes in their MJ2. Which tubes have the most punchy bass? I have a pair of CV455 and was wondering i should get a pair of Cv4033s if im looking for more low end slam. 

Thank you


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Hey All! Ksorota, thanks for looking that up, and a BCowan, thanks for the check as well. I used about 1/3 can of Home Depot QD contact cleaner on the switch, using the supplied tube, spraying some, switching, and alternating that maybe 8 times. At some point, the thunk noise the switch made when activated changed, I’d say deepened and felt more solid. While at it, I went ahead and sprayed out the other two front panel switches. Amp is up, but I’m still going to order the switch Ksorota linked. So next, I have to get amp back together, and then will probably start listening to the Mazda tubes. Thanks for all the suggestions, will report back after a few hours burn in on the Mazda’s. Have a great night!!!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Apr 4, 2022)

Hey Gang, and Happy Sunday!

Listened for maybe 3 to 4 hours last night on the Mazda's. Interesting group of characteristics so far, although I'm sure some changes will happen as they burn on. To Shafat777, you might take note, Bass is deep and articulate, with a real sense of weight and slam. Midrange seems a hair recessed in comparison to the Mullard's, not my favorite tube for Female vocals, but Male vocals are real good. Treble is good, though this isn't the "airiest" of tubes, so not as extended as the mini-mullards. Dynamics are this tubes strong suit, the leading edge punch really comes thru. Detail is very good in quiter passages, but hazes up as the mix gets louder, more so than all the others I've tried so far. This was supposed to be an NOS set, but could well be used tubes that only tested close to each other, so I wouldn't hold this review as Gospel. Overall impression, a different flavor in my Mjolnir, but not in my favs. I found myself getting lost in the details, like following a particular guitar line but loosing sight of the flow of the song. By the way, love electric bass and guitar thru these tubes, gives an impressive thump to a bass line and growl to a lead.

Hope to get my first set of mini's soldered up today. Everyone, have a great Sunday!!!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Apr 3, 2022)

Sorry, gang, probably need some pics and description of tubes for reference. these seem to be grey plates, ribbed, 2 mica, halo getters with 1 post, one tube reads IV-? and the other III-I,  MAZDA/BELVU 12at7/ECC81's. No idea of the manuf date.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Apr 3, 2022)

Hey All! Soldered up my first 6021, about to epoxy it in base, but can someone check my pinouts before I run these up?

6DJ8 to 6021
       1 > 1
       2 > 2
       3 > 4
       4 > 3
       5 > 6
       6 > 8
       7 > 7
       8 > 5
       9 > NC
looking from bottom of both

I would really appreciate it, as I don't have a variac or any way to test with failure protection. Thanks!!!!


----------



## bcowen

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hey All! Soldered up my first 6021, about to epoxy it in base, but can someone check my pinouts before I run these up?
> 
> 6DJ8 to 6021
> 1 > 1
> ...


Looks like you nailed it!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Apr 4, 2022)

bcowen said:


> Looks like you nailed it!


Bcowen, I really appreciate it!!! About to jump on soldering up the second one. Chose to try out the Sylvania tubes labeled FAA, sort of mixing another tube adapter I had originally got with my Mjolnir (pins/base/metal sleeve) with the riser bases I just received cut down (tops) as just a stable hole thru  base for the tube. It’s a little janky, but should do the job for eval purposes. I’ll have to come up with a better system, though, when I start soldering the other 6021’s. Probably won’t finish second tube tonight, but should be able to test run tomorrow. Have a good night!!!

Edit: Finished the second one, they look pretty good, will post pic tomorrow.


----------



## Blacksun (Apr 4, 2022)

Shipping out my Mjolnir 2 today to Keith for the cap mod!!!  /happydance!!!


----------



## shafat777

Blacksun said:


> Shipping out my Mjolnir 2 today to Keith for the cap mod!!!  /happydance!!!


Oh you are in for a treat my friend. This mod transforms the amp to endgame status, IMO.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Apr 5, 2022)

Hi All! I promised a pic of the new mini's. Unfortunately, my spraying out of the power switch on my Mjolnir ended up being a very temporary fix, still not absolutely sure that is the problem. I'm not going to take apart tonight, so will just have to wait until I'm motivated.

Ksorota, you were right, dang if I didn't have to order 4 of that switch just to make the minimum order. $5 for parts and $25 for shipping! I appreciate the link, I must have looked for over an hour online at mouser, digikey, etc. to try and find one like it locally. So if any of Ya'll end up with similar problem and need a switch, contact me.

Have a great night!


----------



## ksorota

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hi All! I promised a pic of the new mini's. Unfortunately, my spraying out of the power switch on my Mjolnir ended up being a very temporary fix, still not absolutely sure that is the problem. I'm not going to take apart tonight, so will just have to wait until I'm motivated.
> 
> Ksorota, you were right, dang if I didn't have to order 4 of that switch just to make the minimum order. $5 for parts and $25 for shipping! I appreciate the link, I must have looked for over an hour online at mouser, digikey, etc. to try and find one like it locally. So if any of Ya'll end up with similar problem and need a switch, contact me.
> 
> Have a great night!






Almost gave up, but found them. Photo shows the short toggle, if you want it I’ll send it your way. Pm with your details.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Thanks, Ksorota, but already ordered. Considering how many of these you mod, do you need a few?


----------



## ksorota

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Thanks, Ksorota, but already ordered. Considering how many of these you mod, do you need a few?



Thanks for the offer, but i hope to not have to do too many of these switches.  I have 3 on hand still so should be all set.


----------



## shafat777

Just received a pair of '57 footscray brimar cv4033 from a fellow headfi member and I think i may finally be able to end my search for tubes for the MJ2......


----------



## jonathan c

shafat777 said:


> Just received a pair of '57 footscray brimar cv4033 from a fellow headfi member and I think i may finally be able to end my search for tubes for the MJ2......


Now it is _backup^__backup_ time…🤣


----------



## shafat777

jonathan c said:


> Now it is _backup^__backup_ time…🤣


Don't you dare tempt me with your evil ways Mr C. 

As backup, I also picked up a set of valvo ecc81. You happy now?


----------



## jonathan c

shafat777 said:


> Don't you dare tempt me with your evil ways Mr C.
> 
> As backup, I also picked up a set of valvo ecc81. You happy now?


…yes, it means that there is a ‘set’ of foil getter RFT ECC81 to be had…🤣


----------



## shafat777

jonathan c said:


> …yes, it means that there is a ‘set’ of foil getter RFT ECC81 to be had…🤣


I have a set that I originally bough from guidostrunk. I think the footscrays are better. But maybe I need to get another pair to really see for myself. I ll send you pics and maybe you can tell me if I have the real deal


----------



## shafat777

If anyone is interested, I am selling some 12au7/12at7 tubes from my stash. When used with adapters, these will certainly take the MJ2 to another level. Pm if interested.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Apr 11, 2022)

Hi all! Wanted to give an update. The switch came in Saturday, and I replaced it and started the long process of modding my Mjolnir. Signal path caps replaced, electrolytic caps immediately surrounding amplification stages replaced and bypassed with film caps. Doing cut-outs on bottom of case for 3 of the bypass caps. Still have the rear 2200 uF caps to replace and bypass where the preamp out XLR’s are located. Not sure if I’ll do anything to the voltage rail caps, would require an awful lot of cutting the bottom plate to do, and I’ll already have 3 holes there. Cut one hole today, have two more to do, and a parts order from mouser to experiment with. I have a used Variac coming from eBay, hope to power the Mjolnir up by the end of this weekend. Then at least 200 hours of burn in, the Mundorf signal path caps are 1000v rated, so probably won’t start to settle in for several hundred hours or so. Let me get a few pics taken and I’ll upload shortly.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Here's some pics. Have a great night!!!


----------



## jclyle

I have TubeMonger 12Axx to 6922 adapters and two pairs of tubes for sale:
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/12atubes-adapters.23782/


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Apr 13, 2022)

Hi All! My mouser package arrived today, got a really good laugh out of it. Check the pic!!! I was test fitting  and ordered without really fully considering the dimensions. WIMA MKP10's, they are massive!!! (41.5L X 35W X 50H) Sigh... I'd be too worried about those caps capacitive couplng to the others, and in 22 uF I can't find a full polypropylene much smaller for anywhere near as inexpensive.. MKS4's would be bit smaller (31.5L X 13W X 24H), but now I'm not much better than the electrolytics I'm bypassing.

My initial, uninformed thought (no schematic nor am I a technician) is that the position of these electrolytics leads me to believe they only effect the balanced pre-outs. As I'm not using this as a preamp, they would make no difference to my use. But that's a total guess. I've found some others that would fit, but they're pricey per cap, and I dont' want to sink that much into something I'll likely not even use. I may stop where I'm at, power up, and revisit another time. I had thought I might make this a stage 1 mod. Whether I ever get to stage 2...?

Edit: last bit of news, a bit of a letdown, my Variac wont arrive until Monday, so looks like having this ready and burning in this weekend is out.

Anyway, Ya'll have a great night!!!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Hi Gang! End's up my Variac arrived today, so I'm going to try and buckle this headamp back up and power it up. I'm calling this stage 1 mod. There are other cap mod's I eventually want to do, but I've been without serious listening for 2 weeks and I'm impatient. Plus I need to get these caps burning in.

I did continuity check from those rear caps to the headphone outs, and both channel hot's have no continuity, cap ground is tied to ground, but the output's could be switched by a relay for protection, so my test was not definitive. I'll tackle those later, I'm ready for this pup to power up. Wish me luck!!!


----------



## bcowen

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hi Gang! End's up my Variac arrived today, so I'm going to try and buckle this headamp back up and power it up. I'm calling this stage 1 mod. There are other cap mod's I eventually want to do, but I've been without serious listening for 2 weeks and I'm impatient. Plus I need to get these caps burning in.
> 
> I did continuity check from those rear caps to the headphone outs, and both channel hot's have no continuity, cap ground is tied to ground, but the output's could be switched by a relay for protection, so my test was not definitive. I'll tackle those later, I'm ready for this pup to power up. Wish me luck!!!


Good luck!  Let us know how it goes.  We have these guys on standby alert just in case.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Good luck!  Let us know how it goes.  We have these guys on standby alert just in case.


If not…?…:


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Apr 15, 2022)

So lot's to tell! First, my Mjolnir is up and running!!! It's sounding very underwhelming right now, but that's to be expected. I did a similar cap mod to a Burson HA-160 soloist, and it really did take 200 hrs play before it started really showing its stuff, with a roller coaster of changes from day to day till it got there. Those caps were 200 to 600V rated. All the Mundorf's are 1000V, and I've read one or two reviews that said they take a little longer than many to settle. So I'm pleased, my Mjolnir wasn't a burning sacrifice on the alter of great sound. It's all gravy from here!

So first, I had roughed out the holes on the bottom plate with a Dremel tool and cut-off wheels, but now needed to finalize the clearance around the caps, especially the hole for the front 200V rail cap. 1.5 hrs later with a mill and bast-rd file, and many test fits, that was finally done, see pic. Next, I wired up my variac. Did a real ghetto job, used the box it came in as the case to mount it to, and I'm pretty sure I screwed something up wiring it, but more on that later. I then did a last once over on my solder joints, cleaned flux from the board, added a little silicon on the bottom cap ends where the leads exit, then finally reassembled the amp. Took it back apart when I realized I left the fuse out! Doooh! So, reassembled, put the stock tubes in, and then slowly brought up the variac. it was humming at full low voltage, started turning it up, Mjolnir's LED almost immediatedly lit up, and by the time I was at voltage, the internal led's for the gain stages had lit, but I started smelling a faint burning smell, and the dial on the variac started getting warm to the touch! Turned off the Mjolnir, pulled the plug on the variac, and opened the box the variac was in to see the coil looking heat stressed/kinda burnt. Sheese! Lucked out there, I thought I had wired according to online schematic, but I either got something wrong or the variac was screwed. It was $25, so no huge loss, and it did charge the caps.

So anyway, hooked it all up, clicked the nice, new, minty fresh switch with a delightful click, and I'm enjoying music presently!!! Hopefully, this adventure is done, maybe to be further tweaked with stage 2. Right now, I'm a happy camper!

Happy Easter all, and have a great weekend!!!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Man, I got to say, I really missed my Mjolnir! These Mundorfs are something else! Steely Dan's on right now, played the whole Wallflowers first album , a little Blood Sweat and Tears, and I'm already lovin what their doing! It's going to be a laaaate night!!!

Time to change out tubes!


----------



## jonathan c

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Man, I got to say, I really missed my Mjolnir! These Mundorfs are something else! Steely Dan's on right now, played the whole Wallflowers first album , a little Blood Sweat and Tears, and I'm already lovin what their doing! It's going to be a laaaate night!!!
> 
> Time to change out tubes!


Going to be…? It is 3:43AM where you are as you post the above…🤪🤣🤪🤣…


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Apr 15, 2022)

Ended up I just couldn't stay up much longer. But this really was a suprise, my last outing on modding my Burson sounded terrible for maaany hours after modding. Now I was using copper foil caps, and I had been warned. But I was really expecting the same here, and yet this was very listeable an hour after first powering up. Currently listening to Sarah McLachlan thru a set of RFT-ECC81's I got from Shafat777, just diggin it!!! Bleary eyed but happy!

Edit: Oh, forgot to mention, I tried powering up the 6021's I assembled two weeks ago, something wrong there, only one channel came up, will have to take apart and have another look.


----------



## bcowen

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> So lot's to tell! First, my Mjolnir is up and running!!! It's sounding very underwhelming right now, but that's to be expected. I did a similar cap mod to a Burson HA-160 soloist, and it really did take 200 hrs play before it started really showing its stuff, with a roller coaster of changes from day to day till it got there. Those caps were 200 to 600V rated. All the Mundorf's are 1000V, and I've read one or two reviews that said they take a little longer than many to settle. So I'm pleased, my Mjolnir wasn't a burning sacrifice on the alter of great sound. It's all gravy from here!
> 
> So first, I had roughed out the holes on the bottom plate with a Dremel tool and cut-off wheels, but now needed to finalize the clearance around the caps, especially the hole for the front 200V rail cap. 1.5 hrs later with a mill and bast-rd file, and many test fits, that was finally done, see pic. Next, I wired up my variac. Did a real ghetto job, used the box it came in as the case to mount it to, and I'm pretty sure I screwed something up wiring it, but more on that later. I then did a last once over on my solder joints, cleaned flux from the board, added a little silicon on the bottom cap ends where the leads exit, then finally reassembled the amp. Took it back apart when I realized I left the fuse out! Doooh! So, reassembled, put the stock tubes in, and then slowly brought up the variac. it was humming at full low voltage, started turning it up, Mjolnir's LED almost immediatedly lit up, and by the time I was at voltage, the internal led's for the gain stages had lit, but I started smelling a faint burning smell, and the dial on the variac started getting warm to the touch! Turned off the Mjolnir, pulled the plug on the variac, and opened the box the variac was in to see the coil looking heat stressed/kinda burnt. Sheese! Lucked out there, I thought I had wired according to online schematic, but I either got something wrong or the variac was screwed. It was $25, so no huge loss, and it did charge the caps.
> 
> ...


Very nice work on the cutouts!  Pretty difficult to do that so cleanly with a Dremel, at least for me.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Apr 16, 2022)

Thanks, that plate is thick when trying to cut or file. I'm just stubborn enough, though!

So I've had a full day to listen and play with it. First of all, totally worth the expense and the labor, my Mjolnir has so much more soul! And totalling up, it was expensive!I think I paid $700 for my Mjolnir used, maybe $750. I already owned a good soldering and desoldering station, so the only tools I bought were the variac and a set of desoldering needles to help clear the PC board holes. The Mundorfs I bought off of ebay (Seller listed by Mundord as distributer) for $325, and maybe $50 more in parts and $50 more in shipping (lot's of last minute one of or two of orders). Add in various supplies, yep, probably $500. So well over half what i paid for my Mjolnir used. But...

I actually tube rolled between 3 brands on one song! And all of them had their take! Was playing oldies, came across Bruce Springsteens 'Hungry Heart'. The RFT's were just wayyy too polite and made the song sound kinda lack luster. Switched in the Mazda's, now there was some much needed brashness to the sax, and the song had better drive and flow. But the RFT's were sooo intimate on his 'I'm On Fire', he was there in the room. Then I switched in the Brimar CV455's, and a fraction of the brashness was gone but some needed body was added. None of these flavors were wrong or unmusical, but I could see picking a particular tube for a particular song as totally viable. Heck, the stock tubes from Schiit sound great!

I really couldn't hope for more. And that's one day of burn in!!!


----------



## jonathan c

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Thanks, that plate is thick when trying to cut or file. I'm just stubborn enough, though!


Thor’s hammer (or amp) would be no match for this! 

 Hell, Thor would be fleeing to the nearest fjord…🤣


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Don't tempt me!!!


----------



## FFGuitar

Anyone know if it is possible to mod the Mjolnir 2 to use a step attenuator for volume control?


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

FFGuitar said:


> Anyone know if it is possible to mod the Mjolnir 2 to use a step attenuator for volume control?


Beyond my skill level, I don't know how you would do that with the chassis being as short as it is, nor how to get a PC mount attenuator converted to off board.  Sorry!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Hi All! 

I'm a bit dis-heartened tonight. Power problem is back, and at this point I can't turn it in to Schiit for repair beacuse of the mods. And I just can't figure out this freakin' intermittent problem. Whatever it is, nothing seems to power up once it starts. Works for 2 or so days, then totally quits. I may be making an assumption, but it seems if I take it apart as far as getting case off of it, then reassemble, it works (worked three times, 4th switch became inop). Tried unplugging for 2 hrs and then replugging in, nada. Changed fuses, even though the fuse had continuity thru it. Tried a tap test all along case, IEC outlet, etc., nada. Power switch problem seems to have been unrelated, or else I got a bad switch (not likely). 

Will try taking it back apart tommorrow, right now a little disgusted and not in the mood.

Signing off for now. Have a great night!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Wow, so I'm really embarrased! Just for giggles, took my very nice power chord to my amp out of the loop, used a known good cheapy (IEC chord included with a computer PS) and plugged it in, and it works! Opened up the fancy chord ,ground on one side was pulled out from under screw terminal. Not calling it fixed yet, giving it a while, but she's back up. I sat there and told myself it couldn't be that power chord, look how beefy it is, and it's new. I should know that assumptions are killers!!!

Anyway, happily listening!!!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Apr 19, 2022)

Hi All!

The plot thickens! Was listening tonight, decided to play a little RDR2 with headphones on, left to eat dinner, and when I came back amp was off! Opened it up, fuse was good, stuck my meter in the nice, beefy power chord I have, measured less than 30 Volts!?! Started to plug in a different power chord, and thought "let me check the wall outlet the chord was plugged into". Now this is a duplex outlet, with one side powering my John Risch DIY power conditioner, with the DAC, the computer, and a few peripherals hooked up there, and the Mjolnir on the other side. Sure enough, the outlet the Mjolnir was hooked up to measured less than 30 volts. I have never heard of a common wired duplex outlet losing power to one side! Just nuts!!! And I never experienced this problem before I moved, my home outlet was long ago replaced with a Furutech GTX-D. Wow, don't see that everyday! Anyway, temp plugging everything into the Risch power conditioner, would replace the wall outlet, but this apt is temp until renovations are done, then I move back.

Back to listening, have a great night!!!

Edit: Come to think of it, I might replace with a hospital grade jack after all. If one side of the duplex failed, who knows if the other side might.


----------



## bcowen (Apr 20, 2022)

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hi All!
> 
> The plot thickens! Was listening tonight, decided to play a little RDR2 with headphones on, left to eat dinner, and when I came back amp was off! Opened it up, fuse was good, stuck my meter in the nice, beefy power chord I have, measured less than 30 Volts!?! Started to plug in a different power chord, and thought "let me check the wall outlet the chord was plugged into". Now this is a duplex outlet, with one side powering my John Risch DIY power conditioner, with the DAC, the computer, and a few peripherals hooked up there, and the Mjolnir on the other side. Sure enough, the outlet the Mjolnir was hooked up to measured less than 30 volts. I have never heard of a common wired duplex outlet losing power to one side! Just nuts!!! And I never experienced this problem before I moved, my home outlet was long ago replaced with a Furutech GTX-D. Wow, don't see that everyday! Anyway, temp plugging everything into the Risch power conditioner, would replace the wall outlet, but this apt is temp until renovations are done, then I move back.
> 
> ...


Wow!  I have never heard of that happening either.  Is that outlet switched, by chance?  Or one of the two sockets in it switched?  Possible also that the two sockets are separated internally and fed by two different circuits.  And if so, could be a loose wire on one of them which would explain the intermittent problem.  ???


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

I think both sides are switched together, but not individually. The other possibility is a painter painted over outlet, and a plug inserted on top of it pushed that paint inside. I’ve seen where you can use diag cutters to split a duplex, but they start out as joined by metal strips integral to the outlet. I’m no electrician, so I’m sure there’s plenty I haven’t seen, but still seems weird.


----------



## TK16

What's up degenerates how you all doing? 😂


----------



## shafat777

TK16 said:


> What's up degenerates how you all doing? 😂


Did you just wake up from your hibernation?


----------



## TK16

Been away from audio for health reasons and really easy to stay away from Headfi.


----------



## shafat777

TK16 said:


> Been away from audio for health reasons and really easy to stay away from Headfi.


Hope you are feeling better and healthy. Glad to have you back.


----------



## jonathan c

TK16 said:


> Been away from audio for health reasons and really easy to stay away from Headfi.


Welcome back !


----------



## roman410 (Apr 20, 2022)

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> I think both sides are switched together, but not individually. The other possibility is a painter painted over outlet, and a plug inserted on top of it pushed that paint inside. I’ve seen where you can use diag cutters to split a duplex, but they start out as joined by metal strips integral to the outlet. I’m no electrician, so I’m sure there’s plenty I haven’t seen, but still seems weird.


Another possibility it is, half the outlet it is operated with wall switch. 
On the old constructions, some rooms especially the bedrooms do not have ceiling light, only the wall switch can operated some of the outlets, when for light you use stand or table light, and turn on and off light with wall switch.
In this case that metal strips can be cutted off on hot site of outlet and outlet can be hooked up to two separate circuits.
Half of the outlet can have power permanently another half you can turn off power with wall switch.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Apr 20, 2022)

And the winners are, Roman410 and Bcowan!

Yep, there's a wall switch that only powers half of the duplex outlet. The wierd thing is, with the switch off, it's showing approx. 30 volts. When I come into the room, I normally hit all 3 wall switches on the one plate. One wall outlet is totally switched, I have my floor lamp on it, didn't leave my iphone charger on it because it's switched. But I wasn't expecting this set-up. Since power to one side was always on, I just figured it was on the other. Those times without power (or at least some of them, I did have a bad power switch, metered it out to prove it), I probably only switched several instead of all on the wall plate (very dark room, have to have the fan/light on except for sleep. I have experienced switched wall plates before, but I have never seen half a duplex outlet done this way. Maybe that's why they make it splitable! Dooooh!!!

Learn something new everyday!

Edit: There's a reason I adopted my handle!!!


----------



## bcowen

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> And the winners are, Roman410 and Bcowan!
> 
> Yep, there's a wall switch that only powers half of the duplex outlet. The wierd thing is, with the switch off, it's showing approx. 30 volts. When I come into the room, I normally hit all 3 wall switches on the one plate. One wall outlet is totally switched, I have my floor lamp on it, didn't leave my iphone charger on it because it's switched. But I wasn't expecting this set-up. Since power to one side was always on, I just figured it was on the other. Those times without power (or at least some of them, I did have a bad power switch, metered it out to prove it), I probably only switched several instead of all on the wall plate (very dark room, have to have the fan/light on except for sleep. I have experienced switched wall plates before, but I have never seen half a duplex outlet done this way. Maybe that's why they make it splitable! Dooooh!!!
> 
> ...


If you're showing 30v with the switch off, then the switch itself is likely bad or miswired.  Are you measuuring the voltage between hot and neutral, or between hot and earth ground?

I have one outlet in my living room that is wired the same way -- one socket of the outlet is switched, and the other socket isn't.  Both are on the same branch circuit though.  Around here, they mount the outlet upside down (earth ground at top, slots at the bottom) to indicate a switched outlet.  Don't know if that's a local code or just a local convention, but it's handy for knowing when an outlet (or part of an outlet) is switched.


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> What's up degenerates how you all doing? 😂


So you excluded me on purpose?  Fine.


----------



## TK16

bcowen said:


> So you excluded me on purpose?  Fine.


I was assured you wern't posting here anymore, was a major condition in me being back here. 😉


----------



## bcowen

TK16 said:


> I was assured you wern't posting here anymore, was a major condition in me being back here. 😉


Well, that just goes to show I'm not the only one you can't trust.  

Good to see you again anyway.  Mostly.  😂


----------



## roman410

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> And the winners are, Roman410 and Bcowan!
> 
> Yep, there's a wall switch that only powers half of the duplex outlet. The wierd thing is, with the switch off, it's showing approx. 30 volts. When I come into the room, I normally hit all 3 wall switches on the one plate. One wall outlet is totally switched, I have my floor lamp on it, didn't leave my iphone charger on it because it's switched. But I wasn't expecting this set-up. Since power to one side was always on, I just figured it was on the other. Those times without power (or at least some of them, I did have a bad power switch, metered it out to prove it), I probably only switched several instead of all on the wall plate (very dark room, have to have the fan/light on except for sleep. I have experienced switched wall plates before, but I have never seen half a duplex outlet done this way. Maybe that's why they make it splitable! Dooooh!!!
> 
> ...


From my experience, that showing 30V on outlet when switch it is off tell me some thing it is wrong! Immediately stop use that duplex outlet for safety reasons!
First I will test outlet with outlet tester for correct wiring. Second will replace outlet ( the hospital grade it is OK ), and wired for permanent power on both sides of duplex, to eliminate the switch. If you do not know how to do I will hire electrician.


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## TK16

So what tubes you guys got in your gear. I'm using 2 very common 56 Valvo CCA pinched waist Heerlen in the MJ2 and 7316 long plate 58 in my LP.


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## jonathan c

When I had the cap-mod Mjolnir 2 (a/k/a ‘Ksorolnir’), I used Tungsram E88CC, Brimar CV455 KB/FB (Footscray) + adapters, and RFT ECC81 (foil getter) + adapters.


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## ShortBtwnHdset (Apr 21, 2022)

Rft ecc81's + adapters, Amperex 6922's, Brimar CV4033's/CV455 + adapters, And I'm playing with converting some 6021's to 6922 footprint, hopefully to sound similar to some mini-Mullards I like. 1st test run not successful!


----------



## jonathan c

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Rft ecc81's + adapters, Amperex 6922's, Brimar CV4033's/CV455 + adapters, And I'm playing with converting some 6021's to 6922 footprint, hopefully to sound similar to some mini-Mullards I like. 1st test run not successful!


What did not work?


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

One tube had no audio, have to take it back apart and recheck wiring.  That or it was a defective tube, more likey that I made a mistake.


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## ShortBtwnHdset

Ok, I've got a bit of a addiction going. Just went online and ordered another $188 of tubes! Some cool ones, too! I know, I know, the first signs that you have a problerm are justifying your behavior!!!

Anyway, Phillips 7062/E180CC SQ's, GE 6829's 5 stars, and Ken-Rad 6414W's. All matched, a little taller than norm 12at's.  And yes, I know I still have to solder up/fix those 6021's! 

For those of you purchasing Schiits 'Fahrvergnugen', man, allocating funds for spares could break a man!

Signing off for tonight, Ya'll have great tommorrow!

PS: and yes I know it's named a Folkvangr!!!


----------



## jonathan c

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Ok, I've got a bit of a addiction going. Just went online and ordered another $188 of tubes! Some cool ones, too! I know, I know, the first signs that you have a problerm are justifying your behavior!!!
> 
> Anyway, Phillips 7062/E180CC SQ's, GE 6829's 5 stars, and Ken-Rad 6414W's. All matched, a little taller than norm 12at's.  And yes, I know I still have to solder up/fix those 6021's!
> 
> ...


Only $188?!….that is just an installment payment on *A *REAL TUBE ! 🤪🤣….on the spending voyage for tubes, you are not yet out of port…


----------



## bcowen

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Ok, I've got a bit of a addiction going. Just went online and ordered another $188 of tubes! Some cool ones, too! I know, I know, the first signs that you have a problerm are justifying your behavior!!!
> 
> Anyway, Phillips 7062/E180CC SQ's, GE 6829's 5 stars, and Ken-Rad 6414W's. All matched, a little taller than norm 12at's.  And yes, I know I still have to solder up/fix those 6021's!
> 
> ...


I stashed up (ridiculously) on box plate square getter Foton 6N6P’s quite a while ago when Schiit spilled the beans on the tube complement for the Folksvagen.  They were around $10 each then.  Kinda like WAY more now.  The early hoarder gets the tube, right?


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> I stashed up (ridiculously) on box plate square getter Foton 6N6P’s quite a while ago when Schiit spilled the beans on the tube complement for the Folksvagen.  They were around $10 each then.  Kinda like WAY more now.  The early hoarder gets the tube, right?


…Jason Stoddard might have to rename the new flagship h/p/a the………Folkcowengr !!  🤣🤣


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Hey Gang! 

Made another tube order, this time for 2 set's of Raytheon 6414's. Had a question. What's your opinion/advise on paying for tube matching/balanced sections? I had been paying for it when available, but in some cases the distributer may not have many tube sets to choose from, and all you might actually be getting are the values printed for the tubes/sections. In many cases, the fee's can double the price of the tubes. This last order, instead of getting matched/balanced, I just ordered twice the tubes. Some shops list how many they have (who knows how often their listings are refreshed), while others just give you a qty you want to order. I assume if only 4 or less are listed, it wouldn't make much sense to order these services. What's your take on it?

Thanks, and have a great day!


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## ShortBtwnHdset (Apr 25, 2022)

Hmmm.... Kinda suprised no one's taken this up.

Let me expound further, in hopes of sparking some reply's.  I imagine many Mjolnir owners, including myself, are not 'High End" tube shoppers. I'm not likely to ever pay much more than $150 for a set of tubes, and if I did, it would be once in a blue moon. My choice of the Mjolnir for amplification was to have some of the tube magic without the large expense for supporting larger tube sets.  I've been down the full tube chain in high end years ago, had a penchant for Conrad Johnson gear. Amazing sound, I know the alure!!! But I felt, for me, tube output stages (8 -6550's on my last amp) was far to pricey, and output tubes were'nt particularly long lived.I instead changed over to tube pre-amp and mosfet amp for amplification.

Anyway, back to my point. For a set of tubes on the upper end of that scale, I would definitley pay for matching and balanced sections. However, I also feel that as we approach that range and above, the quantity available from a partcular supplier goes down drastically, meaning there will actually be less chances of getting a premium sample from that group, as the size of the group is smaller. Holy Grail tubes are rare in part because they've been collected to rarity, if they were ever common to begin with.  Another factor is just how resolving is your system. I can hear a difference between tubes with an unmodded Mjolnir, but I'm sure those differences are less than I would hear on a top of the line tube headphone amp. What I heard thru my unmodded Mjonir wouldn't have necessarily prompted me to buy in the $100 - $200 bracket. Modded, I think I'm hearing a lot more detail, and that could bring me to justify outlaying the extra for matching/balance fee's. CJ was a firm beliver in matched sets, but I went much longer periods than i preferred before I changed out tubes because of the expense, sometimes changing only when prompted by blown fuses or a red plate (that one required repair as well)!.

So again, what's your take on this, especially considering use in a Mjolnir. Thanks!!!


----------



## shafat777

Anyone here run their Mj2 in high gain mode? Been experimenting with the gains and find the high gain to be a little more fuller with slightly wider imaging. I also find the same thing with my GSX mini.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Apr 25, 2022)

I’m pretty much exclusive full gain mode. I use Peace EQ, and I set it to try to keep pre-gain out of clipping territory. I’ve got about 8 DB of cut, so I use full gain on the Mjolnir. I’ve tried low gain mode, it occasionally sounded different, not necessarily better, on low gain before modding. After modding, I find no need to try.


----------



## jonathan c

shafat777 said:


> Anyone here run their Mj2 in high gain mode? Been experimenting with the gains and find the high gain to be a little more fuller with slightly wider imaging. I also find the same thing with my GSX mini.


Yes and yes. When I owned the ‘Ksorolnir’ and the GSX-mini, I certainly experienced in high-gain mode more dimensional and solid imaging within a wider soundstage . [PS - a killer sonic combination: GSX-mini + Rosson Audio RAD-0. I sold both before the @puck headband modifications appeared.]


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## ShortBtwnHdset (Apr 26, 2022)

Hey Gang! Can I get a quick call out to you experienced tube rollers? Have several sets of 6414's on the way, but came across a post in this thread that mentions they may take too much current? Reference was made to a data-sheet, and I never saw another post confirming this was indeed far out of spec for our Mjolnir's. Can anyone confirm or give experience on this?

Thanks!!!

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-mjolnir-2-listening-impressions.778250/page-226#post-16358575


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## ShortBtwnHdset (Jun 8, 2022)

Hi all!

Just wanted to do a quick impressions post, now that I have a few hours burn in on my modded Mjolnir. It's really kind of interesting what has changed with burn in, tonally and audio effects wise!

To give you a little perscective, I'm a 60 year old male with some definite hearing loss above 10K (turbine engine aircraft mechanic in a prev career). One of the reasons I use Peace EQ is to boost the 10500 to 15000 range, with a steeeep peak at 11750 before tapering down. In actuality, I don't hear much past 12000. One of the reasons I love my ZMF's is what they do in the Bass to Midrange, just meaty and palapable! They compensate for what I'm missing on the highs.

Anyway, to the impressions. The main reason I ended up going with high grade Mundorfs capacitors over other choices was that they have a lower to upper treble boost effect, and I was hoping this might make my lower treble a little clearer (they are also far more compact than most other full-film capacitors). It has, I like the boosted treble, and I have a hunch this effect might slightly improve over time. I would estimate I've got maybe 50 hours or so of burn in post mod. I've also used almost exclusively RFT-E81CC tubes during this period.

When I first powered up the Mjolnir post mod, it really sounded pretty underwhelming. Very lifeless, sterile, and restricted. Bass was loose and flabby and undestinct. This was to be expected, not only am I burning in the Mundorf's but also 5 electrolytics. That changed quickly (thank God!), within 30 min or so, it was much more engaging. And frequency/amplitude wise, it hasn't changed much from there, at least to my limited perception. I have noticed the bass goes down lower, but not by a lot. I imagine the frequency extremes (the freq range) has broadened slightly, but this is inferring what I hear in the bass is also happening on the other end. The first changes I noticed taking place were in the bass, it has definitely deepened and tightened. It's quite tuneful now, I can easily follow a bass line on most songs, some which I never knew had one (Carole King's "Tapestry" album)! And it is so throaty!!! Think James Earl Jones in terms of the body behind a voice. Male vocals are really something! As the caps settle in, female vocals are improving, but that seems to come slower. Sarah McLachlan is finally becoming more palpable, but that seems to have happened within the last 10 hrs. Whitney Houston's "Exhale" finally took on some soul!

One positive difference from stock to modded that I did notice almost immediately was in the "air" around instruments. Each instrument seemed to be more specific or localized, instead of appearing on the 'wall of sound'. That effect has improved slowly, but perhaps more so because of other improvements dynamically and depth wise as the caps burn in. It was a little wierd, depth wise, as it seemed that instruments that were mixed hot were very front of stage, while most everything else took a mid-stage perspective, with a fair bit of seperation from front stage to mid stage, but not much in between. Shakers, tamborines, cymbals, bells, chimes, all these mid to back stage sounds seemed to also be slightly muted. They were still clear and specific, but quieter and smaller sounding. That is easing over burn in, the depth aspect of the stage is slowly deepening and seperating with less 'banding'.

Dynamics is another area that seems to be improving slowly. I mentioned listening to to Bruce Springsteen's "Hungry Heart", and how I thought that song was overly polite on the RFT's. I'm now thinking that's more of a function of the cap's not having loosened up earlier in the burn in process. Having just listened again, that song significantly improved within the last day or two. Dynamics and PRAT have gained snap and bounce. And that adds back into image specificity and depth. Part of the motivation for writing this is my listening session last night, when I realized how much had changed in tunefulness over the last few days. I'm sure I have several tubes that could rival the RFT's, but I'm in no hurry to sub them in, I'm just really enjoying the ride.

There are two other points I want to cover. Unexpectantly, electric guitar seems to be slightly less dominant after the mods. It's less prominent post-mod, while everything else seems to have gotten more representation. Sort of like it's sharing the stage, instead of hogging it. Not sure how this will play out with more hours. Pedal and synthesizer effects are really highlighted, though. Vibrato, tremolo, the sound of a Leslie, particular synth sounds, I guess you could say the warbling of instruments is really highlighted and quite fun!

Wind and horn sections are wonderful on classical music, but massed strings are still mostly 'wall of sound'. It's only recently that voices started to become more distinct from each other in the chorus's of songs, (one to 3 backup singers are clear, but still not dilineating choirs yet). That aspect still has a long way to go. That's OK, that really only starts to truly shine in the best of the best equipment. That may be where Stage 2 will help some, giving some finess for the finer touches.

As to now, 1st thing in my immediate future is a re-calibration of Peace EQ. I need to do a new baseline measurement of my ears/headphones, and start re-EQing from there. I'll probably burn in another 50 hrs or so before I do that, really let the caps settle in. Slowly gathering ideas and gumption for stage 2. It could be a while... And I probably need to make covers for the bottom of my chassis. If Jason ever wandered here, and saw those pic's, he'd probably have nightmares!!!

Hope all of Y'all have a great tommorrow!


----------



## evanescent (Apr 30, 2022)

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> So again, what's your take on this, especially considering use in a Mjolnir. Thanks!!!


MJ2 uses one tube per channel, and so there's no electrical interaction between the tubes. They might have different gain, which you can fix with a balance control. Any two tubes are going to measure /sound a little different - if they're similar enough for your ears, all is fine. No need to have them finely matched by vendors.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Cool, and thanks for response! Have a great night!


----------



## Guidostrunk

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hey Gang! Can I get a quick call out to you experienced tube rollers? Have several sets of 6414's on the way, but came across a post in this thread that mentions they may take too much current? Reference was made to a data-sheet, and I never saw another post confirming this was indeed far out of spec for our Mjolnir's. Can anyone confirm or give experience on this?
> 
> Thanks!!!
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-mjolnir-2-listening-impressions.778250/page-226#post-16358575


I've ran the 6414 tubes in the MJ2. They are over the specs and I didn't have any issues but I wouldn't recommend using them. Honestly they're nothing special sound wise. Huge soundstage but resolution and imaging are ok.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I never really paid attention to matching tube tolerances. Hell... I've put sets together. As long as the tubes test good and are somewhat close I think you're good to go @ShortBtwnHdset


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Started some tube rolling this weekend, first tried the Brimars (I think CV4003’s), really was not digging it, although  burn in has barely started there. Lots of bass, but not loving the feel so far. Then I subbed in a pair of Sylvania 6414’s, River City Dive was really fun thru them. I’m kinda liking them, may have to revisit later. Unfortunately, that’s all the time I had this weekend for listening, currently in Atlanta airport waiting for my connector flight. Will be out of town till Friday, so no listening till then. 

Have even more tubes on order, 7 pair!!! Hope to give an impressions post later. Ya’ll have a great week!!!


----------



## bcowen

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Started some tube rolling this weekend, first tried the Brimars (I think CV4003’s), really was not digging it, although  burn in has barely started there. Lots of bass, but not loving the feel so far. Then I subbed in a pair of Sylvania 6414’s, River City Dive was really fun thru them. I’m kinda liking them, may have to revisit later. Unfortunately, that’s all the time I had this weekend for listening, currently in Atlanta airport waiting for my connector flight. Will be out of town till Friday, so no listening till then.
> 
> Have even more tubes on order, 7 pair!!! Hope to give an impressions post later. Ya’ll have a great week!!!


The Mullard CV4003's are one of my _not_ favorites. I've been successful though at selling most of them off.


----------



## audiargent

shafat777 said:


> Anyone here run their Mj2 in high gain mode? Been experimenting with the gains and find the high gain to be a little more fuller with slightly wider imaging. I also find the same thing with my GSX mini.


I do, but I run the HE-6SE V2....


----------



## shafat777

audiargent said:


> I do, but I run the HE-6SE V2....


Oh i bet that high gain sounds so much fuller w/ the HE6


----------



## MisterButthead

audiargent said:


> I do, but I run the HE-6SE V2....


How do you like the He6SE through the MJ2?  I've read conflicting reports about whether the MJ2 is powerful enough to bring out the best in them.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

So, Bcowen, what tube did you finally decide was your best match for the Mjolnir?


----------



## audiargent

MisterButthead said:


> How do you like the He6SE through the MJ2?  I've read conflicting reports about whether the MJ2 is powerful enough to bring out the best in them.


It is my only "Powerful" amp. With the 12AT7 I quite like the sound signature. 

They are very revealing (but I do not have very high end headphones yet) and will show any fault you throw at them.

I should have an "old school" tube amplifier (that costs considerably more though) on the way. I will test, compare.and report if I get to have the time!


----------



## Rowethren

Decided it is time to sell my Mjolnir 2 and all my compatible tubes if anyone here is interested https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/schiit-mjolnir-2-plus-a-good-selection-of-tubes.25157/


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## jonathan c

Rowethren said:


> Decided it is time to sell my Mjolnir 2 and all my compatible tubes if anyone here is interested https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/schiit-mjolnir-2-plus-a-good-selection-of-tubes.25157/


…sic transit gloria mjolnir…👋


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Hi All! Just got home from business trip, look what greeted me at the door! I'm going to try several "Tall Boys" tonight! From left to right , Sylvania 6414's ( actually got that in last week), Ken Rad 6414W's, Phillips 7062/E180CC's, and GE 6829's. I do realize they will be running a little hot on the heater transformer widings, but I'm not going to do it long. Just want a taste for now! I'll probably start with the Phillips first. Anyway, Ya'll have a great night!!!!


----------



## shafat777

Thinning the herd. Getting rid of a pair of 12au7 and a pair of 12at7 tubes from my MJ2 collection. Let me know if you folks interested. RFT and Amperex Orange globe


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (May 14, 2022)

Hi Gang!



Had a fun weekend last week! Really loving the "Tall Boys", they're an interesting mix!

A quick impressions post. I used 3 albums for judging, oldies I'm very familiar with: The Eagles - The Long Run, Steely Dan - Aja, Chicago - Chicago IX Greatest Hits. This weren’t picked specifically for evaluation purposes, they are just three albums I love and listened to initially before I decided on the comparison with the other tubes. This was done over the course of a couple of days, and is not definitive, I just wanted to get an initial impression as they burned in. All only had a few hours of play, maybe 3 or so before switching. Generally, as a group, they seem to have a little bigger presentation, they have this something that grabs ya, over the standard 12AT7 types I've encountered thus far. The two I liked most are the GE6829's and the Sylvania 6414's, followed by the Phillips E180CC's, and then the Ken Rad 6414W's.

The first I tried was the Phillips. I would say very close in sound to my RFT-E81CC's. The Phillips probably had the most extended treble, sounded brighter, sharper, and had more energy, very punchy, but had less body and placement in comparison. Could sound harsh at times, especially while burning in.

Next up were the Ken Rad's. Darker presentation, but had a really pleasing body (both bass and midrange) to vocals and instruments, the most tangible of the 4 I tried. Really seductive in micro dynamics, solo's and small scale/decible level. But they became hazy as the decibles went up or the stage got crowded, they were the least clear when things got louder.

The GE's were one of my two favs, both it and the Sylvania's were very similar and great all-rounders. More extended than the Ken Rad's, but not as extended as the Phillips, neutral in character. Bass ever so slightly rounder than the other three. Much better in clarity than the Ken Rad as decible level went up, maybe even slightly better than the Sylvania's. Imaging very good, Sylvania's had slight edge here.

Like I said, the Sylvania's were similar, more extended than the Ken Rads, not as much as the Phillips. Bass was slightly clearer than the GE's. Clarity and imaging second to the Ken Rads' at low decibles, and just under the GE's when things got loud. Very satisfying, I'm going to get more of these two!

As the stage 1 of the cap mod settles in, I'm getting an idea of where I want to go for stage 2. To be able to run these Tall Boys on a daily basis, I'm going to have to incorporate an external regulated heater power supply. I need something that can put out at least an amp continuous at 6.3V, maybe even 1.5 amps for margin. I need to add in some copper film caps to the mix, really want to tip the midrange towards the "lush" and "forward" side, as it's a little over dry and laid back.

Over the weekend, my next lot of tubes came in, pic included. Did a quick run up of each just to check that they were functional. Of these, one of the RFT’s was dead, and Adzam’s were slightly microphonic. I’ll live with the slight microphony, trying now to get a replacement RFT.

A quick listen of each left me with some favorites, the Siemans, Valvo, and Miniwatt’s being best to my ears.

 That’s all I’ve got for an update. Hope you all have a great night and weekend!


----------



## busseysound

shafat777 said:


> Anyone here run their Mj2 in high gain mode? Been experimenting with the gains and find the high gain to be a little more fuller with slightly wider imaging. I also find the same thing with my GSX mini.


I always prefer high gain mode - might just be me but I think it's a more "true" sound.


----------



## jonathan c

shafat777 said:


> Anyone here run their Mj2 in high gain mode? Been experimenting with the gains and find the high gain to be a little more fuller with slightly wider imaging. I also find the same thing with my GSX mini.


Reply No.2:  On other h/p/a which feature low / high gain mode switching (Schiit Lyr 3, Schiit Valhalla 2), I experience the same results. This makes me wonder whether the low-gain mode is an accommodation to high sensitivity IEM users. Are these h/p/a designed ‘for’ optimal operation in high-gain mode? 🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## shafat777

jonathan c said:


> Reply No.2:  On other h/p/a which feature low / high gain mode switching (Schiit Lyr 3, Schiit Valhalla 2), I experience the same results. This makes me wonder whether the low-gain mode is an accommodation to high sensitivity IEM users. Are these h/p/a designed ‘for’ optimal operation in high-gain mode? 🤷🏻‍♂️


Thanks for the info. Would there be any adverse effect of using high gain mode on the tubes? Would the tubes run hotter? On my MJ2, so far, i have only used the low gain mode and have been satisfied. However, with my GSX mini, i have to use high gain, otherwise the music just sounds a little congested.


----------



## jonathan c

shafat777 said:


> Thanks for the info. Would there be any adverse effect of using high gain mode on the tubes? Would the tubes run hotter? On my MJ2, so far, i have only used the low gain mode and have been satisfied. However, with my GSX mini, i have to use high gain, otherwise the music just sounds a little congested.


•  If the tubes’ filament current, amplification factor, etc are within MJ2 tolerance, I do not see why high gain mode would be a problem. (It may be necessary with Audeze LCD-4 and the like.)
•  One advantage to a use of low-gain mode might be the avoidance of channel imbalance at low volume levels: turning the knob further clockwise. I never thought of this as an issue with MJ2, though.


----------



## shafat777

jonathan c said:


> •  If the tubes’ filament current, amplification factor, etc are within MJ2 tolerance, I do not see why high gain mode would be a problem. (It may be necessary with Audeze LCD-4 and the like.)
> •  One advantage to a use of low-gain mode might be the avoidance of channel imbalance at low volume levels: turning the knob further clockwise. I never thought of this as an issue with MJ2, though.


I m running a set of 12at7 tubes using adapters in my MJ2, i hope its safe to operate it at high gain.


----------



## jonathan c (May 15, 2022)

shafat777 said:


> I m running a set of 12at7 tubes using adapters in my MJ2, i hope its safe to operate it at high gain.


I used Brimar CV455s (Footscray 12AT7s) in MJ2 with no problem. The amplification factor (gain) for a 12AT7 is 60x; for 6922 (stock MJ2 tube), it is 33x; for a 12AX7, it is 100x. 12AX7 would be a problem for MJ2: overload to the SS output stages. Also, with the adapters, the MJ2 ‘sees’ the 12AT7 as a 6-volt tube, like the 6922. The filament current of the 12AT7 is also within MJ2 tolerance.


----------



## Blacksun

Anyone using a component rack of some sorts instead of stacking their MJ2?  I find it get REALLY hot... Curious what others are doing or using... ty!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

I'm using seperate shelves of a bookshelf for my Gungnir and Mjolnir. I do wonder whether a fan would help tube/component longevity on the Mjolnir, though, because it does get very warm over a few hours play.


----------



## jonathan c

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> I'm using seperate shelves of a bookshelf for my Gungnir and Mjolnir. I do wonder whether a fan would help tube/component longevity on the Mjolnir, though, because it does get very warm over a few hours play.


Do you have the tubes on an adapter or socket saver? Also, cylindrical feet, say 2” high, for Mjolnir. I took off the stock feet and placed Mjolnir on these cylindrical feet.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

jonathan c said:


> Do you have the tubes on an adapter or socket saver? Also, cylindrical feet, say 2” high, for Mjolnir. I took off the stock feet and placed Mjolnir on these cylindrical feet.


Hey Jonathan! It's on AQ sorbothane feet (one of the 'original'  80's era tweaks!) and has about an inch clearance once compressed. And I am using adapters or savers, depending upon tube choice.


----------



## jonathan c

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hey Jonathan! It's on AQ sorbothane feet (one of the 'original'  80's era tweaks!) and has about an inch clearance once compressed. And I am using adapters or savers, depending upon tube choice.


One other factoid that I read about Mjolnir while I owned it is that the amplifier body is acting as a heat sink…hence the moderate / high temperature.


----------



## bcowen

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hey Jonathan! *It's on AQ sorbothane feet *(one of the 'original'  80's era tweaks!) and has about an inch clearance once compressed. And I am using adapters or savers, depending upon tube choice.


Eeeeeeeeeeeek!!!!!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

bcowen said:


> Eeeeeeeeeeeek!!!!!


Hey, say what you will, I love AQ feet! Want to know what other 80's era tweak I'm using on both pieces of Schiit gear? VPI Magic Brick's!!!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

jonathan c said:


> One other factoid that I read about Mjolnir while I owned it is that the amplifier body is acting as a heat sink…hence the moderate / high temperature.


I did know that, thanks! I was just wondering if some air circulation would help in some way.


----------



## jonathan c

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> I did know that, thanks! I was just wondering if some air circulation would help in some way.


Have significant other stand next to equipment and gently wave palm leaf…🤪😎


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

jonathan c said:


> Have significant other stand next to equipment and gently wave palm leaf…🤪😎


Oh, that's hilarious!!! 🤣They were fresh out of that type while I was shopping for wive's!


----------



## jonathan c

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Oh, that's hilarious!!! 🤣They were fresh out of that type while I was shopping for wive's!


Shopping for wives?….I hope that she’s not the ‘blue light special’….🤪😂😂


----------



## bcowen

jonathan c said:


> Shopping for wives?….I hope that she’s not the ‘blue light special’….🤪😂😂


Mine came from a rubbish rummage sale.  Unfortunately that's where the bargain ended.


----------



## bcowen

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hey, say what you will, I love AQ feet! Want to know what other 80's era tweak I'm using on both pieces of Schiit gear? VPI Magic Brick's!!!


I like VPI bricks.  Still have a couple of them somewhere.  They won't fit on top of components in my racks though.  I need some VPI Half bricks.


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Mine came from a rubbish rummage sale.  Unfortunately that's where the bargain ended.


…the Goodwill deal —> ill will 😒…🤣🤣


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

bcowen said:


> I like VPI bricks.  Still have a couple of them somewhere.  They won't fit on top of components in my racks though.  I need some VPI Half bricks.


If I’m not mistaken isn’t what’s pictured in Paladin’s setup a custom made ‘brick’ on top of his Freya+?
https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/11713814.jpeg


----------



## bcowen

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> If I’m not mistaken isn’t what’s pictured in Paladin’s setup a custom made ‘brick’ on top of his Freya+?
> https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/11713814.jpeg


Pretty sure that's a cigar box.  But maybe he has it filled with steel laminations?


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Your probably right, but might make a nice, easy to build, half "brick"!!! Food for thought!


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> Pretty sure that's a cigar box.  But maybe he has it filled with steel laminations?


Or filled with metal 6C5s & 6J5s….?😏


----------



## Adnan Firoze

Hi guys, although it's a sale post, it's sorta MJ2 specific, so I figured I leave a link here. They are unused and brand new and since unfortunately I had to move on from the MJ2 - these might come in handy for someone else: 

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds...tended-tube-adapters-and-socket-savers.26560/

Thanks.


----------



## shafat777

Been running a set of Brimar '57 Footscray CV4033 square getter and i cant get enough of these. The footscray round/halo getters are also magnificent but the square getters has just enough sparkle and bass emphasis to take the crown. Its a really tough call to decide between the two footscrays and the rft foil getters. I think all three are excellent choices.


----------



## jonathan c

A few of us agree…😊…


----------



## Rowethren

shafat777 said:


> Been running a set of Brimar '57 Footscray CV4033 square getter and i cant get enough of these. The footscray round/halo getters are also magnificent but the square getters has just enough sparkle and bass emphasis to take the crown. Its a really tough call to decide between the two footscrays and the rft foil getters. I think all three are excellent choices.


I wonder where they came from


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (May 30, 2022)

> I’m currently running a set of RCA 12at7’s, but that’s only temporarily till I do my second stage mods. At present caps are still burning in, but I have noticed a few things. Right now, my system is very dynamic and punchy, with a bass that is very slightly overemphasized, but deep and satisfying. Where I seem to need some tailoring is in the mids, I like my female vocals to be a little on the lush side. My Verite’s already are a bit recessed there, so I’m going to have to compensate a little. The polypropylene caps I used for bypassing the 680 uF and 1000 uF are partly to blame, they were cheapies bought to finish the job when I ran low on funds. Question is do I bypass them or replace them? Replacement would be-expensive and harder, best I can tell. If I just add a minimal value copper cap to each, would that be enough?



I may have to revisit the Footscrays soon.


----------



## shafat777

Rowethren said:


> I wonder where they came from


Those came from a "bloke" from the other side of the pond. Awesome "bloke" to deal with for sure.


----------



## hk29

I'm late to this game and just got a MJ2.  I was looking for a high powered tube balanced headphone amp on the more reasonable price scale.  I'm surprised to see the MJ2 has not lost a lot of value - hopefully it'll stay that way when I decide to upgrade.  But there isn't a lot of choices.  I'm using a yggy hence the "need" for balanced.  

I wanted to leave some quick impressions. In comparison.  I'm using a pair of Electro-Harmonix 6922 tubes on low gain and balanced.

MT604 -> MJ2: increase in details, refinement (smoother), more space, better imaging, but still a nice engaging tuby midrange.  More balanced sound (bottom end and top end) The MT604 sometimes didn't sound as extended in the top end.  But for $170 MSRP I have nothing to complain about - it is a great livable tube hybrid balanced amp with gobs of power.  

MJ2 -> Burson 3xp: increase in details, space and imaging.  This amp has a special way of making the headphones disappear and the music to float.   It's clean, but not dry or analytical.  Soundstage sits further back and little more dynamic.  

I ended up selling the Burson as I'm looking for that tuby midrange (colored, warmer, ephuoric, rich) for vocals.  The MJ2 just suits me better.   

One day I'd like to try a pure tube headphone amp (I'm thinking bottlehead crack, with the right headphones).  But for now I'm happy with the MJ2 - it was power, tuby sound, but still retains more than enough details and space to be surprising. 

Unfortunately I don't have the skills to mod it.  And I'm not a huge tube roller - but I'll try a few different tubes when I can find a good deal.  

Thanks all for those in this thread that helped me get here.


----------



## jonathan c

Tube suggestions for you, @hk29, if you want to stay with the ‘6922-type’ tube: Amperex PQ 6922, Amperex PQ 7308, Philips BEL E88CC, Sylvania (green print) 6922, Tungsram E88CC. I ‘roll’ / use these in a variety of h/p/a.


----------



## hk29

Thanks @jonathan c! Anyone that is really tuby  that I should first start?

I feel the EH tubes are pretty clean.


----------



## jonathan c

hk29 said:


> Thanks @jonathan c! Anyone that is really tuby  that I should first start?
> 
> I feel the EH tubes are pretty clean.


The tubes that I mentioned are very clear with excellent transients and ambience rendition. You might start with the Philips BEL. For a more ‘lush’ sound, you can go with RCA 6922 or RCA E88CC (not on my list). Note that there is a limit on the addition of “tubeness” to the Mjolnir sound since the tubes are in the driver stage while the output stage is solid-state.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Hey HK29! 
Jonathan has a whole lot more experience tube rolling than most, his recomendations on 6DJ8's would be a great starting point. Other options to consider would be converting to a 12AT7 type tube, and shopping in that arena. I'm into tube rolling right now, and 12A's are a bit cheaper to collect. You would need a pair of adapters 6DJ8>12A*7, look on the Tubemonger site (I think direct links are against rules). But if you like the sound of the EH's, try one or two different, and if they do nothing for you, your golden! 

Anyway, glad you joined the thread!!!


----------



## jonathan c

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hey HK29!
> Jonathan has a whole lot more experience tube rolling than most, his recomendations on 6DJ8's would be a great starting point.


Thank you for the comment! If you need a ‘treasure trove’ of tube experience, at the top of _my_ list are @bcowen and @Wes S. In biblical terms, I am not worthy to change the adapters on their headphone amplifiers…😜.


----------



## Blacksun

westermac said:


> Does anyone else's Mjolnir 2 make occasional creaking/popping (I mean the unit itself, not in the audio chain). If I push town on the top of the unit it will make a similar clicking sound, so I'm pretty sure it's just a seam that moves slightly with the expansion/contraction of warmup and cooldown. Drove me crazy trying to pinpoint it for awhile, now it doesn't bother me. Just curious.


Mine is doing this, anyone else???


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

I haven't heard that, but have had other equipment that did similar. I liken it to older cars that would tick and creak for 10 or so min after shutting off.


----------



## roman410

Blacksun said:


> Mine is doing this, anyone else???


Mine too. Sometimes still couple hours  after turning off.


----------



## hk29

Tubes are hard to find or expensive ...  Im still debating if I should go get an otl amp: BH, WA2, decware (long leadtimes).   

In the meantime, I got a pair of Amperex ECC88/6DJ8 O-Getter Orange Globe Logo Holland 1968 (if you trust ebay seller).  It was cheaper so I just wanted to try something.

Comparing to the standard EH: increase in bass presences, warmer, less sparkle, midrange richness/texture, and bit more 3Dness.  I did loose the sparkle which gave it better sense of details and air.  Overall, I like the amperex better.

On to the next tube chase to see if I can get one from the list this time!  ... Still deciding on the 12Axx converter.


----------



## jonathan c

hk29 said:


> Tubes are hard to find or expensive ...  Im still debating if I should go get an otl amp: BH, WA2, decware (long leadtimes).
> 
> In the meantime, I got a pair of Amperex ECC88/6DJ8 O-Getter Orange Globe Logo Holland 1968 (if you trust ebay seller).  It was cheaper so I just wanted to try something.
> 
> ...


A nice tube for Mjolnir II. Next stop…?…Tungsram E88CC 🤔…


----------



## Adnan Firoze (Jun 16, 2022)

hk29 said:


> Tubes are hard to find or expensive ...  Im still debating if I should go get an otl amp: BH, WA2, decware (long leadtimes).
> 
> In the meantime, I got a pair of Amperex ECC88/6DJ8 O-Getter Orange Globe Logo Holland 1968 (if you trust ebay seller).  It was cheaper so I just wanted to try something.
> 
> ...



The OTL question depends on what headphones you are running. If they are primarily planars, OTL would not be a good idea. My favorite ones on MJ2 were Telefunken E88CC, Brimar Footscray ones (but these are 12AU7 - one I have listed but needs adapter to go with the MJ2), and Amperex Bugle Boys.


----------



## hk29

I recently changed up from planar (empyrean) to the ZMF Atrium.  I wanted to switch it up to see if it suits me better.  

You are all a bad influence on my wallet!!!


----------



## Adnan Firoze

hk29 said:


> I recently changed up from planar (empyrean) to the ZMF Atrium.  I wanted to switch it up to see if it suits me better.
> 
> You are all a bad influence on my wallet!!!



Ahh you are not yet privy to the forum motto - "Welcome to the community. Sorry about your wallet."


----------



## Adnan Firoze

So .... who are getting this thing? Not me. [Gallery: https://www.facebook.com/LeeShellyP...LuZIVAGW6MRjM_hpMNRc_dI-Nssy8BV&__tn__=,O,P-R]


----------



## bcowen

Adnan Firoze said:


> So .... who are getting this thing? Not me. [Gallery: https://www.facebook.com/LeeShellyPhotography/posts/pfbid0mymySSXpBE9etgKb4cBPL26o13jeFmmcy1vhLf7uTjKfFWkLvWXyAYe1VY2Y9vNdl?__cft__[0]=AZVorYjpVDgw-16mY12HVYuYfzHVuM11ZEd22WuQsygqOj8NaTotdPYUXuaAvoOs6Gye0yuhOdv5l-GD0OVzUb7DMOMPdh-tsfwsX1f9P2bqJTBi2BETob_SoLuZIVAGW6MRjM_hpMNRc_dI-Nssy8BV&__tn__=,O,P-R]


Me.


----------



## Adnan Firoze

bcowen said:


> Me.


NICE!


----------



## ThanatosVI

Adnan Firoze said:


> So .... who are getting this thing? Not me. [Gallery: https://www.facebook.com/LeeShellyPhotography/posts/pfbid0mymySSXpBE9etgKb4cBPL26o13jeFmmcy1vhLf7uTjKfFWkLvWXyAYe1VY2Y9vNdl?__cft__[0]=AZVorYjpVDgw-16mY12HVYuYfzHVuM11ZEd22WuQsygqOj8NaTotdPYUXuaAvoOs6Gye0yuhOdv5l-GD0OVzUb7DMOMPdh-tsfwsX1f9P2bqJTBi2BETob_SoLuZIVAGW6MRjM_hpMNRc_dI-Nssy8BV&__tn__=,O,P-R]


Looks certainly nice, but not the Kind of tubeamp I want


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Jun 17, 2022)

I’m currently listening to some Dario (Phillips) mini-watt 12at7’s with adapters and enjoying them a lot. If your looking for extended highs, look at Siemens or RFT’s, either 6DJ8’s/6922’s or get adapters and get 12AT7’s/ECC81’s. They seem to be more extended on the top end to my ear.

Myself, I’m enjoying rolling for a month or so with one, then subbing another in while I’m burning in some caps after modding. About to do another Mod soon, so will likely continue.

Ordered a few more tubes over the last few weeks, got a set of LIiST tubes and a set of Sylvania 12AT7’s from Adrian. The Sylavnia’s will be fine for general listening, the LIIST will help with burn in without wearing out tubes. I also  have two sets of Russian Reflektor 6N23P-EV coming towards beginning of next month. Looking forward to comparing them. Finally, I said I would never do it, that I would never spend that much money on a set of tubes, but broke down and ordered a pair of GEC A2900’s coming next week. I’ve just always wanted a holy grail tube set to listen too! We’ll see what they reveal!

In listening news, the burn in from stage 1 mod has been progressing. Bass has tightened even more and slam factor and dynamic punch are really something to behold. That recessed midrange has loosened some, but vocals are still not where I want them. Depth has more spread from front to back. Very enjoyable listening, tube rolling seems to show a lot of differences in tone/soundstage, which was one of the things I was after with the mod.

Have some Audio Note resistors on way from England, and I’ve decided to replace those cheaper MKP film caps with V-caps, so will take a few months to save up and collect them. That should set me up for stage 2 mods on my Mjolnir, so having LIIST tubes for burn in will be nice.

Currently waiting out a bad thunder storm before I plug system back in for a listen. Ya’ll have a great weekend!!!


----------



## hk29

10 tubes?  April fool's?  Are they matched?  I can't even afford pair for the MJ2.


----------



## bcowen

hk29 said:


> 10 tubes?  April fool's?  Are they matched?  I can't even afford pair for the MJ2.


There are two 6N1P's and eight 6N6P's.  Only the 6N1P's need to be matched.  6N6P's were cheap until the pre-hoarding began.


----------



## jonathan c

Adnan Firoze said:


> So .... who are getting this thing? Not me. [Gallery: https://www.facebook.com/LeeShellyPhotography/posts/pfbid0mymySSXpBE9etgKb4cBPL26o13jeFmmcy1vhLf7uTjKfFWkLvWXyAYe1VY2Y9vNdl?__cft__[0]=AZVorYjpVDgw-16mY12HVYuYfzHVuM11ZEd22WuQsygqOj8NaTotdPYUXuaAvoOs6Gye0yuhOdv5l-GD0OVzUb7DMOMPdh-tsfwsX1f9P2bqJTBi2BETob_SoLuZIVAGW6MRjM_hpMNRc_dI-Nssy8BV&__tn__=,O,P-R]


….tube lures for Bangybang bait….?….😏


----------



## jonathan c

bcowen said:


> There are two 6N1P's and eight 6N6P's.  Only the 6N1P's need to be matched.  6N6P's were cheap until the pre-hoarding began.


😳…wait ‘til hoarding is in effect !! … 😳


----------



## hk29

Got it.  I do think it looks really nice.  I should go buy some 6N6P  and stock up now.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Jun 22, 2022)

WOW, having a sublime experience tonight with my system! Between a little tweaking on Peace EQ, a switch to the BE2 pads, and the Phillips Mini-watts being just about right in terms of burn in, I'm groovin and the system is in the zone!!! Got Santana's 'Shaman' album on, and the rythm section is glorious! Must be one of those nights when the power grid is a little more quiet.

Happy listening, and have a great night!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Jul 5, 2022)

The GEC A-2900's finally arrived, currently burning in. They sound really nice so far, this is one tube set that will be have to be saved for special occasions!!! I'm starting to see what all the hype is about! Will probably get a few hours of listening in tonight, then rebox them and await my next mod.

Unfortunately, the Reflektor 6N23P-EV's are on wartime hold (Impulse purchase on Ebay, ends up they are from Ukraine ), may never get them, but they have bigger problems to worry about.

Recieved the Audio Note resistors, have the first pair of V-cap ODAM's on order, and I may have found a good external fillament supply on E-bay( https://www.ebay.com/itm/353532995691 ). I would get the 7 volt one. Hopefully by the time it crosses the umbilical connections, plus a small value resistor onboard the Mjolnir, I should have 6.3 volts. Reading an interesting article on grounding that will hopefully help me tie the two together 
( https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/audio-component-grounding-and-interconnections.163575/ ).

Hope all of you had a great weekend/4th!!! For all those who've purchased a Folkvangr, I hope you've recieved it or will soon, and it's everything you imagined. Yumm, it looks both tasty and toasty!!!


----------



## billerb1 (Jul 7, 2022)

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> The GEC A-2900's finally arrived, currently burning in. They sound really nice so far, this is one tube set that will be have to be saved for special occasions!!! I'm starting to see what all the hype is about! Will probably get a few hours of listening in tonight, then rebox them and await my next mod.
> 
> Unfortunately, the Reflektor 6N23P-EV's are on wartime hold (Impulse purchase on Ebay, ends up they are from Ukraine ), may never get them, but they have bigger problems to worry about.
> 
> ...


See my listing in the Classifieds for my pair of GEC A 2900’s....the very rare Triple Mica Square Getter version.
             S  O  L  D   !!!!!!!!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Jul 13, 2022)

Hi All! The Ruskie tubes finally came in Saturday, have been enjoying them lots!!! Seem to have both extension and nice imaging/soundstage. Well worth the wait, especially at two pair for approx US$125 shipped. Took a while to get here, but considering the War in Ukraine, they did amazingly well!

Speaking of Ukraine and the international scene, have done less listening this week while attending The World Games 2022 in Birmingham, AL. What a fun time, got to see the Latin Dancing Friday, and the womens artistic gymnasts Tuesday and Wednesday. Ukraine gymanast was quite good and got a lot of support, but all of them were excellent and a blast to watch!

I'll be ordering a few more high end tubes Friday, and then I'm cooling it on tube purchases for a while. Getting a pair of Telefunken E188CC's to play with, and a back up of another tube for posterity!

Been reading the Folkvangr thread with great interest, cool stuff but waaaaay too rich for my blood, I'll stick with my Mjolnir and continue modding. Hope Ya'll all have a great night!

Edit: Hey, what do you know, my 100th post!!!


----------



## Kapazza

hk29 said:


> I recently changed up from planar (empyrean) to the ZMF Atrium.  I wanted to switch it up to see if it suits me better.
> 
> You are all a bad influence on my wallet!!!


Impressions?  I'm on the fence for the Atriums, pairing with Gungnir MB > Mjolnir 2.


----------



## hk29

I'm using iPad > yggy A1 unison > mj2 (balanced).  I don't have much to compare, but I have no complaints. I actually like it.  I mostly prefer female/male vocal centric pop/indie music.

From the xduoo mt604 the MJ2 has a more precise image, a step up in details, and wider soundstage, but still retains a  warmer holographic signature. The midrange has texture and natural sound.  It very musical.

I previously (before the atrium) had Burson 3xp but thought it was too "clean" for my tastes even if it did have a wider soundstage, cleaner (more details), and higher freq extension. 

My personal opinion is that the atriums sound great on a lot of equipment including the MJ2.  I've heard the abyss 1266 and susvara on the MJ2 and I felt they both could sound better.  With the atrium, I don't desire more.

I would say the atrium+MJ2 sound close to how most would describe the sound of the atrium (vocal king, natural, organic, amazing imagining/staging) and the MJ2 (hybrid - dynamic, transparent, but with tuby warmness) respectively.   I think its a great pairing that doesn't leaving me wanting more or wondering if I'm missing anything based on the discussions here (aka there are better headphone amps than the mj2)

Of course ymmv, but I hope this help.


----------



## billerb1

Hey guys, clearing out some of my stuff.  Check my signature below.  PM me with questions.


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> Hey guys, clearing out some of my stuff.  Check my signature below.  PM me with questions.


Great items! Best of luck!


----------



## hk29

I was lucky enough to pick up an Abyss 1266TC.  I'm using it with the MJ2 (high gain) with the standard EH 6922 tubes - everything I know about the tube and the abyss would suggest it would not would work well (EH is a neutral, sterile tube). I have read at least one headfi that didn't like the 1266 + MJ2 pairing.  I think its dynamic with a balanced sound.  I think the mids are just right - not too forward and not recessed as 1266 can be. There's sufficient air/soundstage and details.   I can easily tell the difference between the ZMF atrium -> abyss 1266.   I'm sure I'll sell the mj2 at some point to move up, but right now i'm really enjoying it.


----------



## shafat777

hk29 said:


> I was lucky enough to pick up an Abyss 1266TC.  I'm using it with the MJ2 (high gain) with the standard EH 6922 tubes - everything I know about the tube and the abyss would suggest it would not would work well (EH is a neutral, sterile tube). I have read at least one headfi that didn't like the 1266 + MJ2 pairing.  I think its dynamic with a balanced sound.  I think the mids are just right - not too forward and not recessed as 1266 can be. There's sufficient air/soundstage and details.   I can easily tell the difference between the ZMF atrium -> abyss 1266.   I'm sure I'll sell the mj2 at some point to move up, but right now i'm really enjoying it.


I have a cap modded MJ2 that i also enjoy daily I use it to play planars mostly and occasionally a ZMF + Sony Z1R. My upgrade for the MJ2 would be either Cayin HA-6A or Woo WA22.


----------



## hk29 (Aug 3, 2022)

Nice.  There really isn't anything like the MJ2 (powerful tube hybrid - transparent enough to let each headphone and tubes shine).

I was thinking headlamp GSX-mini or ifi ican pro signature but I'm pretty fickle and tends to change base on what folks are talking about here.  I'd like to try the wa22 but worried that it's underpowered for the 1266tc and the tubes are getting expensive.


----------



## shafat777

hk29 said:


> Nice.  There really isn't anything like the MJ2 (powerful tube hybrid - transparent enough to let each headphone and tubes shine).
> 
> I was thinking headlamp GSX-mini or ifi ican pro signature but I'm pretty fickle and tends to change base on what folks are talking about here.  I'd like to try the wa22 but worried that it's underpowered for the 1266tc and the tubes are getting expensive.


I hear ya. My biggest concern with the wa22 is also power + tube cost. The cayin will be cheaper in that aspect 

My mj2 being cap modded is one of 4 in existence and I cherish it dearly because of it raw power.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Aug 3, 2022)

I love my Mjolnir 2, it's my end game for several reasons. 1st - plenty of power, for nearly any headphone I could throw at it. 2nd, it has enough tube goodness to keep me interested in it. There are better tube headphone amps out there, but I don't feel I miss out on much, post mod. Sometimes it gets close to uncanny in stage presentation, and slam and punch are hard to beat. Lastly, I've only got to worry about 1 pair of signal tubes, and they are of a more available variety than most, so I can tube roll to my hearts content without getting lost in the weeds trying for rare glass. Between 6DJ8's, 12AT7,s, a few rusky models, etc, etc, etc, I should have no problem staying up and running for years to come. Plus, I'm crazy enough and handy enough to mod my own, so my sound will improve further. For me, it's a keeper!!!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Hey All!
One of the 4 pairs of tubes I have on order came in, Telefunken ECC801S, liking it so far! Should be a fun weekend!!!

Still to recieve pairs of Siemens E180CC's, GE smoked glass 6DJ8's, and Voshod Rocket 6N23P's, should be in Moday or so, then I need to cool it on tube purchases for a while.

So, this is my first pair of Telefunken's, seems pretty close to the Amperex's I've heard, but thats just an initial impression, will have to do a shoot out at some point to really get a feel for differences. I've got Fiona Apple's Tidal on right now, just kinda mellowing in her heavy vibe!

Hope you all are well! Have a wonderful weekend , and happy listening!!!


----------



## jonathan c

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hey All!
> One of the 4 pairs of tubes I have on order came in, Telefunken ECC801S, liking it so far! Should be a fun weekend!!!
> 
> Still to recieve pairs of Siemens E180CC's, GE smoked glass 6DJ8's, and Voshod Rocket 6N23P's, should be in Moday or so, then I need to cool it on tube purchases for a while.
> ...


Those TF ECC801S s are ☑️. I roll them in Woo WA2 (OTL) … among other h/p/a…😊


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Aug 5, 2022)

Hi Jonathan!!! I'm definitley warming to them. Got Heart on right now, there's something going on in the midrange that's really nice!!! Funny, I thought I read that midrange wasn't necessarily Telefunkens strong suite. Liking it! Have a great night!

Edit: Now that i think about it, what I read was that Mullard's are thicker in the mids, not that Telefunkens are thin. Closest I have to Mullards are my Brimmars (CV-4033, CV-455), haven't really warmed up to them yet. May need to give another try.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Wow, more I listen the more impressed I am. The synergy of these tubes with my system promises a late night ahead!


----------



## mrjayviper (Aug 8, 2022)

just bought this one and quite excited! (the 2 last amps I made are both tubes)

good thing is that my first tube amp allowed me to have several pairs on NOS/barely used NOS from the 6DJ8-family.

Do I need to do anything when tube rolling using that's not from the 6DJ8-family? I think I have several pairs of 6CG7 which I used on the last amp I made. somewhere.

Thank you


----------



## mrjayviper

hk29 said:


> I'm surprised to see the MJ2 has not lost a lot of value



In my case, it's the reversed (unless I really just got lucky). the seller's price was less 50% of original RRP and 3+ years remaining in the warranty.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

mrjayviper said:


> Do I need to do anything when tube rolling using that's not from the 6DJ8-family? I think I have several pairs of 6CG7 which I used on the last amp I made. somewhere.


I know that 12AT's need an adapter, that's mainly what I'm collecting. I wouldn't know on 6CG7's, but maybe someone else will pipe in.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Aug 8, 2022)

mrjayviper said:


> In my case, it's the reversed (unless I really just got lucky). the seller's price was less 50% of original RRP and 3+ years remaining in the warranty.


To me, this headamp represents a 'best value' on the used market.


----------



## jonathan c

mrjayviper said:


> just bought this one and quite excited! (the 2 last amps I made are both tubes)
> 
> good thing is that my first tube amp allowed me to have several pairs on NOS/barely used NOS from the 6DJ8-family.
> 
> ...


The 6CG7 and 6DJ8 are pin-compatible. The 6CG7 has a filament (heater) current of 600 mA. That for the 6DJ8 is 365 mA. That difference could be a problem.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Aug 8, 2022)

Hi All!  Recieved my package today, all tubes ops check good. I can tell that the GE 6DJ8 smokies are not as extended in the high's, maybe also a little looser bass wise, but pleasant none the less. The more I hear these Russian tubes (Voskhod 6N23P's), the more I think they make a good 'daily driver', nice extension and generally doesn't seem to have anything missing. The Siemans E188CC might have a little more finess, hard to tell without an extended comparison, but is equally extended as the Russian's in the highs. Will probably leave the Siemans in for a few days, then switch back to the Ruskies.


----------



## Kapazza

hk29 said:


> I would say the atrium+MJ2 sound close to how most would describe the sound of the atrium (vocal king, natural, organic, amazing imagining/staging) and the MJ2 (hybrid - dynamic, transparent, but with tuby warmness) respectively. I think its a great pairing that doesn't leaving me wanting more or wondering if I'm missing anything based on the discussions here (aka there are better headphone amps than the mj2)


Interesting...I did not enjoy my Atrium in the MJ2 much.  Folkvangr, on the other hand, sounds great with the Atrium, but MJ2 fell flat.  Conversely, my planars (LCD-5 and Arya Stealth) sound crappy on the Folkvangr and amazing on the MJ2.


----------



## hk29

Sorry to hear!  What didn't you enjoy?  I didn't like them much with the EH, but enjoyed them with amperex (orange globe, bugle boys).  But I also don't have a FV to compare nor anything twice the price of the MJ2.

I wouldn't say the mj2 is end game. But I could see the atrium to be more "endgame" for the sound signature aka scale up with better a chain.


----------



## shafat777

Is it possible to use the preamp of the MJ2 simultaneously while listening to headphones? 

The reason i ask if because I would like to add a Ferum OOR in my chain and would love to use the tubey preamp of the MJ2 to feed the OOR.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

As far as I know, it shouldn’t be a problem, but that’s a total guess. Looked at the brief Schiit owners manual, no help there, but I’ve had other preamps where I’ve used both set of outputs with no volume loss, and I’ve used integrated Amps headphone outputs while main speakers on. They should be at different gain stages in the signal path.


----------



## Drummer Boy

I'm pre-amping an AHB2 with the MJ2. No issues.


----------



## shafat777

Drummer Boy said:


> I'm pre-amping an AHB2 with the MJ2. No issues.


Thanks, i might attach my GSX mini with it just to see if it works. I appreciate the info


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Sep 2, 2022)

Hi All!

It's been a while since any responses on this thread, so I thought I would update. A recent change of pads on my VO's (Eikon lambskin perforated) has got me really grovin, in concert with the Siemens E188CC tubes. It took some patience and slight adjustments to EQ to get the balance just right, but I'm finally at a place where I'm deeply satisfied.

I had tried Universe lambskin perf and the BE2 lambskin perf, and just always felt female vocals were missing something, and guitars were slightly receded in the mix. I probably should have tried the Verite lambskin perf pads, but comfort is a real sticking point for me, and from what I've read, the Verite pads left ears a little too close to the baffle/driver. Looking at the VO thread, one of the reviewers rated pads for the Verite's, including some of the less common ones. Two sparked my interest, the Suede Universe and said Eikon pads. Thanks to Peace EQ, I've been able to dial the Eikons in perfectly, including adding a tiny bit of stereo spread as they are much more angled, killing very center images.

Tonally, I've got both visceral and detail, including body in the mids that I was previously missing. .2 ms added to the stereo expander effect brings the center back in focus, and I'm in hog heaven!!!

I've been getting some back-ups for my fav tubes, mainly Siemens (E88CC's, E188CC's) and Russian Voskhod 6N23P's, so haven't collected much more on the stage 2 parts, and right now I'm satisfied enough to put off for a little while. Billy Holiday was on earlier, and currently Dianna Krall's husky voice is now seducing me!!! Great stuff!


----------



## hk29

Good to hear! There's so much to do with synergy.  I've enjoyed the MJ2 with ZMF Attrium and Abyss 1266 - I know others haven't.  I'm wondering if its my ears vs differences in chain.  Probably a combination of both.

I'm finding I like lthe option of low and high gain.  I don't know if it's because I read that high gain has zero feedback but it sounds a tad more detailed, dynamic, and has more grit (in a good way) vs low gain seems much more relaxed and smooth.  Maybe it in my head . But when I'm in the mood to just relax I go low gain.  When I want to be moved and tickle my ear drums I go high gain.  That said, this is not a controlled A/B as I didn't do any match level setting. 

Anyone else feel the same way or am I making this up?


----------



## jonathan c

hk29 said:


> Good to hear! There's so much to do with synergy.  I've enjoyed the MJ2 with ZMF Attrium and Abyss 1266 - I know others haven't.  I'm wondering if its my ears vs differences in chain.  Probably a combination of both.
> 
> I'm finding I like lthe option of low and high gain.  I don't know if it's because I read that high gain has zero feedback but it sounds a tad more detailed, dynamic, and has more grit (in a good way) vs low gain seems much more relaxed and smooth.  Maybe it in my head . But when I'm in the mood to just relax I go low gain.  When I want to be moved and tickle my ear drums I go high gain.  That said, this is not a controlled A/B as I didn't do any match level setting.
> 
> Anyone else feel the same way or am I making this up?


I have found, on a number of Schiit h/p/a, that the high-gain selection passes through better sound. These h/p/a are Mjolnir 2, Lyr 3, and Valhalla 2.


----------



## K3cT

I'm not sure where to ask but are the WE 396A still the tubes go if we're seeking a slightly warmer sound? I'm testing a pair of early 60s Amperex 6922 white label and while the sound profile fits what I'm looking it doesn't sound very open. I wonder if the 396A can fix that.


----------



## shafat777

jonathan c said:


> I have found, on a number of Schiit h/p/a, that the high-gain selection passes through better sound. These h/p/a are Mjolnir 2, Lyr 3, and Valhalla 2.


High gain on both my GSX-mini and MJ2 does indeed output cleaner sound with more air and dynamics.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Sep 6, 2022)

"I'm not sure where to ask but are the WE 396A still the tubes go if we're seeking a slightly warmer sound? I'm testing a pair of early 60s Amperex 6922 white label and while the sound profile fits what I'm looking it doesn't sound very open. I wonder if the 396A can fix that."

From what I'm seeing online, the pin-out isnt similar to either a 12A type nor the 6922, so some sort of adapter would be needed. Electrically, someone else will have to chime in.


----------



## K3cT

Only one way to find out I guess, just snagged some lightly used square getter JW WE 396A. Tube rolling is really an unhealthy hobby. 😭


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Sep 6, 2022)

Tube Depot has an adapter ,5670W to 6922 with the tube for cheap, I'd probably get that if you need the adapter. Now that I'm clued in, I think I might get a couple!!!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Hi All!

Just got a package of tubes today, a set of tubes labeled Siemens E88CC that look dubious, and a set of Voskhod 6N23P's. By the gold plating on the tube pins looking burnt, the single sided support halo getter (off angle, I might add), yeah, I'm pretty sure the Siemens are fake. I took a chance, the set of Ruskies sound very good, the knock off Siemens not so much, so one winner and one loser set. The difference between these and the Siemans E188CC is pretty marked, though. Going to leave the Voskhods in for a while.

I keep saying I'm going to quit buying tubes, yet I keep handing over my money!!! Sigh... I may have a problem, here...


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Sep 15, 2022)

Thanks, K3cT!!! I ended up ordering 3 pairs of JAN GE 5670W's off of Ebay, and tube adapters from Tube Depot, for a total of $82.52 shipped!!! That's got to be the best deal I've gotten on tubes in the last 20 years!!! I'm Psyched!!!

I figure between them and the Voshkod's I should have a slew of daily drivers for years, with special occasion tubes for the weekends and such!


----------



## hk29

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> I keep saying I'm going to quit buying tubes, yet I keep handing over my money!!! Sigh... I may have a problem, here...



I'm worried prices will just continue to increase and for supply to decrease.  

How do you keep all your tubes?  I want to get a nice display case


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Sep 6, 2022)

hk29 said:


> I'm worried prices will just continue to increase and for supply to decrease.
> 
> How do you keep all your tubes?  I want to get a nice display case


They will! That's why I'm collecting now, and also why I mod. I'm sticking with my Mjolnir! Only one set of tubes to replace, prices on similar spec'd tubes is reasonable but quickly getting pricey, I figure get them now. This is my end-game!

Edit: Sorry, didn't catch the question. I keep them in boxes, seperated by socket and type. Right now, 12AT7's in one, 6922's in another, tall boy 12at7's in another (hoping future mod will make these feasable), 6021 mini's with adapters to be soldered in another (haven't really worked on this since my first unsuccesful try). Nothing special, not even displayed!!!


----------



## bcowen

hk29 said:


> I'm worried prices will just continue to increase and for supply to decrease.
> 
> *How do you keep all your tubes? * I want to get a nice display case







🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

In Bcowens case, ...     LOL


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Actually, all kidding aside, how many different tubes do you stock for, Bcowan??? Does your knowledge reflect that you've had a lot of different tube equipment over the years, or is what's in your sig only a small representation of the gear you use? It seems when anyone asks about a particular brand or socket type, you've got experience, and from some of your exchanges on the Schiit sponsor page, it seems you have helped friends with a particular juicy pick on occasion. So, I infer you have a good stockpile of tubes, but maybe that's just a dumb assumption.


----------



## gumisb

@ShortBtwnHdset

Did you installed ODAM capacitors? Can you compare them to original Wima or Mundorf?


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Sep 9, 2022)

Hey Gumisb!

Not yet! I've bought a pair of 10 uF's that will bypass the 1000uf caps, need to buy 2 more. And I still need to buy a single 6.8 uF for the 680uF. Those will replace the yellow and white caps in the pics posted previously. Been stocking up on tubes as of late, as they are getting scarcer, plus really liking my sound once I changed VO pads, so hate to have the system down.

There are still some caps I need to get for the balanced pre-outs, as well as some PS rail bypass caps for those 10,000uF ones. I've already bought the 22Kohm silver Audio Note resisters to replace the thru-hole ones at the tube stage. And I need to get another variac, so I'm a ways from stage 2 mods.


----------



## bcowen

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Actually, all kidding aside, how many different tubes do you stock for, Bcowan??? Does your knowledge reflect that you've had a lot of different tube equipment over the years, or is what's in your sig only a small representation of the gear you use? It seems when anyone asks about a particular brand or socket type, you've got experience, and from some of your exchanges on the Schiit sponsor page, it seems you have helped friends with a particular juicy pick on occasion. So, I infer you have a good stockpile of tubes, but maybe that's just a dumb assumption.


Most of my knowledge (and stash) comes from having a lot of different pieces of tube equipment over the years and buying tubes to roll in them.  I've been at this for a while now ('cause I'm old ), and while I've continued to buy tubes over the years the majority of the stash came from purchases 20-30 years ago.  Back when you could still find a brick-and-mortar store that stocked some tubes. Back when you could go to a Hamfest and see more tubes for sale than radios. And back when you could pick up nice tubes on Ebay for 1/10th (or less) of what they go for now.  Just wish I'd put more money into tubes back then instead of my 401k.  LOL!  

 What's in my sig is what I'm using now, and while I still have some pieces in the closet, I've finally grown up enough to actually sell components when I move on rather than "collect" them. 

Just the small tubes...kind of semi-un disorganized.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Wow, nice stash of small signal tubes! Sighhh... wish I had collected years ago when I was both into Conrad Johnson stereo gear and Fender guitar amps!!! But I was spending money on the gear, not the support equipment! Still have a Conrad PV-9A
and one set of replacement tubes in storage. 

Oh, by the way, I'm pretty old too!


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Hey, quick question for you Bcowan and others with experience. I have an offer on a matched quad of nos GE 5 star 5670's for $200. Do you feel the 5 stars are better than JAN GE's? Are they close to the GE 396A's? You think this is a good deal?


----------



## jonathan c

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Wow, nice stash of small signal tubes! Sighhh... wish I had collected years ago when I was both into Conrad Johnson stereo gear and Fender guitar amps!!! But I was spending money on the gear, not the support equipment! Still have a Conrad PV-9A
> and one set of replacement tubes in storage.
> 
> Oh, by the way, I'm pretty old too!


Are you ‘New Old Stock’…🤣?


----------



## bcowen

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hey, quick question for you Bcowan and others with experience. I have an offer on a matched quad of nos GE 5 star 5670's for $200. Do you feel the 5 stars are better than JAN GE's? Are they close to the GE 396A's? You think this is a good deal?


I'm not a fan of GE tubes so my comments should be taken with a large grain of salt.  I only have the JAN and haven't ever had or heard the 5 star. The WE 396A is in an entirely different league in comparison to the JAN though (IMO).  Regardless, $200 for a quad of 5 stars is very high.  Unless you specifically need a matched quad, you can easily find matched pairs for $40 - $50.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Thanks for the reply! Are the 396A's all that?


----------



## bcowen

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Thanks for the reply! Are the 396A's all that?


Depends on the amp, most likely.  Not my favorite in my Incubus amp, but sounded very nice in the Lyr 3.


----------



## gumisb

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hey Gumisb!
> 
> Not yet! I've bought a pair of 10 uF's that will bypass the 1000uf caps, need to buy 2 more. And I still need to buy a single 6.8 uF for the 680uF. Those will replace the yellow and white caps in the pics posted previously. Been stocking up on tubes as of late, as they are getting scarcer, plus really liking my sound once I changed VO pads, so hate to have the system down.
> 
> There are still some caps I need to get for the balanced pre-outs, as well as some PS rail bypass caps for those 10,000uF ones. I've already bought the 22Kohm silver Audio Note resisters to replace the thru-hole ones at the tube stage. And I need to get another variac, so I'm a ways from stage 2 mods.



Thanks.
I was thinking about ODAMs only in signal path as replacement of 0.47uF Wimas because they are extremely expensive. 1000uF I already replaced wit Elna Silmic II. I also discovered that lowering temperature of heater bridge rectifier and using snubber eliminate problem of amp long run sound change. 
Resistors is another rabbit hole


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

gumisb said:


> Thanks.
> I was thinking about ODAMs only in signal path as replacement of 0.47uF Wimas because they are extremely expensive. 1000uF I already replaced wit Elna Silmic II. I also discovered that lowering temperature of heater bridge rectifier and using snubber eliminate problem of amp long run sound change.
> Resistors is another rabbit hole


Now I did replace the Wima films with Mundorfs, Evo Supreme Silver/Golds, mainly because they were compact. Looking at the V-Cap site, they should be similar sized, so you should be able to get them to fit. I would also replace the .1 Wima’s on the R/H side of the board.

If you want to save some cash, you can get 90% or better of the improvement going with Auricap XO’s. I have used them before with impressive results, just wanted to try the Mundorfs. Would have rather saved the cash to buy several Odams for the 1000 uF bypasses , in hindsight.

Mind elaborating on the filament supply improvements? Are We talking heat sinks and snubber caps? Pics and values would be appreciated!


----------



## gumisb (Sep 12, 2022)

On this picture you can see heat sinks for all bridge rectifiers. I also use passive radiators on enclosure. Unfortunately I don't have now picture of the bottom of board where across bridge rectifiers input I put caps. I ended with 0.220-0.270uF film caps only without resistor, but it is my preference. Proper RC snubbers can eliminate almost completely diode noise.
Edit: image of bottom added.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Sep 14, 2022)

> Edit: image of bottom added.


Thanks for that Gumisb! Just noticed you added Pic! Are those film caps (silver), and whats the multi colored one? What values?

Hi All!  Tubes and adapters arrived, I think we have a daily driver on our hands for cheap! The JAN GE-5670W's sound great, palpable lows and mids kinda like Telefunkens, but I can tell they burn hotter/brighter so won't last as long. Spec sheet shows the 6922 at 300 mA heater current, the 5670W's at 350 mA, It's noticable just looking at the tube! but at $20 a pair you can't go wrong. Think I'll order 3 more pair and be done!

Hope everyone has a great night!


----------



## gumisb

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Thanks for that Gumisb! Just noticed you added Pic! Are those film caps (silver), and whats the multi colored one? What values?



All caps are film caps. You can use anything what suits you and fit small space (maybe WIMA would be better). Multicolor cap is 0.270uF 600V for HV, all others are 0.220uF.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Wow, got to say, these 5670W's are wonderful! Playing "Concierto De Aranjuez" album, Paco De Lucia and orchestra, and it is beautifully rendered! I unfortunately can't speak on how extended or not the high's are (I'm not hearing much above 11500 Hz these days), but the low treble down is niiice! Orchestra wonderfully laid out!


----------



## Drummer Boy

Just blew something in my MJ2. Stepped away from my HP rig for about an hour last night and accidentally left the MJ2 on. Came back into my office and smelled that burning electric smell. Uh oh. Sat down, put on my LCD-5 and there was a low vibration hum in the left channel. Went to touch the volume knob on the MJ2 and it was scalding hot, and not the usual MJ2 hot. I literally could not touch the amp for more than a few seconds without burning myself. 

So I turned it off, let it cool, turned it back on. Low hum was still there in left channel and anytime I turned up the volume beyond quiet, static hits in the same channel during dynamic DB increases (kick drum, snare). Swapped the tubes in each other's sockets, still there. Introduced another set of tubes still there. So it's not the tubes. Oh well.......back to Schiit it will go. Anyone else experience anything like this with their MJ2?


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Sep 16, 2022)

Damm, that sucks, Drummer Boy... I'm sure Schiit can handle it, but you will be without for a while, as well as expense. I've heard of tubes hot-plating, usually taking down what they're plugged into in the process, but that was with the larger output tubes. Doesn't sound like this was the case, so no idea why or what is wrong. Strange that you didn't blow a fuse first.


----------



## Drummer Boy

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Damm, that sucks, Drummer Boy... I'm sure Schiit can handle it


Yes, very thankful for Schiit's customer service. All my interactions have been nothing short of stellar over the years. Also, not too concerned about being without the MJ2, given I have other amping options. Mostly interested in what may have gone wrong. Not sure if they will actually disclose what they fix once they do find out what is responsible for the issue.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Drummer Boy said:


> Yes, very thankful for Schiit's customer service. All my interactions have been nothing short of stellar over the years. Also, not too concerned about being without the MJ2, given I have other amping options. Mostly interested in what may have gone wrong. Not sure if they will actually disclose what they fix once they do find out what is responsible for the issue.


That’s an expensive amp. You have the right to ask what had to be fixed.


----------



## Drummer Boy (Sep 28, 2022)

Update: Got my repaired (warranty) MJ2 back, which was a 10 day turnaround, shipped from MA to CA, repaired, and back to MA. Again, I have only ever received +A Customer Service from Schiit. As for what was wrong with the amp, they replaced the resistor and 200V regulator, as well as the left channel output devices - so yeah, my unit was officially "fried."


----------



## billerb1

Check the Classifieds here for Brimar triple mica square getter 1956 Footscray matched pair.


----------



## FFEL

My mjolnir also just went cold. I suspect that the internal fuse blew but Schiit wants me to try new tubes in the system first. Anyone know if the light on the front turns on IF the tubes are removed? My mjolnir does not light up or anything. Any recommendations on cheap-ish tubes? I looked at the tube rolling thread and most of the ones that I saw were quite expensive.


----------



## shafat777

I have a pair of Brimar CV4033 Footscray 57 Halo getter 12AT7 nos tubes if anyone is interested.


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset

Hey FFEl! Sorry to hear about diffuculties. Getting into the amp to replace fuse isn't very hard, I would check fuses before much anything else. Littlefuse 1.6 amp slow blow 5X20, 115V. As long as you unplug and are careful, shouldn't be a problem, unless your uncomfortable handling high voltage electronics. 

As to the cheap tube set, you probably want to steer clear of anything that takes an adapter (extra expense), so stick with 6DJ8 types for now. Do you have a buddy with a used set he can lend? Do you have the solid state tubes/cans the Mjolnir originally came with?


----------



## FFEL

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hey FFEl! Sorry to hear about diffuculties. Getting into the amp to replace fuse isn't very hard, I would check fuses before much anything else. Littlefuse 1.6 amp slow blow 5X20, 115V. As long as you unplug and are careful, shouldn't be a problem, unless your uncomfortable handling high voltage electronics.
> 
> As to the cheap tube set, you probably want to steer clear of anything that takes an adapter (extra expense), so stick with 6DJ8 types for now. Do you have a buddy with a used set he can lend? Do you have the solid state tubes/cans the Mjolnir originally came with?



Hey, thanks for the reply! I heard that it voids the warranty if I open it up. I've sadly have only had the mjolnir for a year and a half. Is it worth voiding it?

I managed to find a local seller. I believe I picked up some cheap JJs from him. My Mjolnir did not come with solid state tubes (I think), they look like regular tubes. Solid state tubes/cans are all metal, right?


----------



## ShortBtwnHdset (Oct 7, 2022)

Hi All! Quick update, I've finally got everything ordered for my stage 2 mods. I'll be redoing the 1000uF w/bypass caps , using better bypasses (V-cap Odams), redoing the 680UF w/bypass caps, using Odams, Adding 22uf Audio Note Kaisei Lytics to bypass the 2200 uF's on the pre-out XLR's, further bypassed by .22 uF Odams.

On the PS rails, I'll be double bypassing the 10,000 uF's on the 19 V rails with FG Nichicon Lytics plus film Wima MKS2s, and the HV rail again with FG lytics and films.

I thought real hard about both an external 6.3V supply, as well as Ideal bridge rectifiers, but holding off on external for now, and most everything available Ideal bridge wise is on larger proto boards, plus ideal bridges don't play well with center tapped transformer secondary's. Would probably work on the heater and HV rail's though. Would have to add some resistance downstream to slightly step down the voltage. The external supply may still make a later appearance if I ever do a stage 3 mod.

I went ahead and bought a beafier, modern 1000VA variac. Won't probably start modding for a week or so.


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## ShortBtwnHdset

FFEL said:


> Do you have a buddy with a used set he can lend?





FFEL said:


> ...Solid state tubes/cans are all metal, right?


Hey, if it voids the warranty, then defintely dont open. ..

Yep, I bought my Mjolnir used so it didn't include them. Were they only an aftermarket purchase?


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## FFEL

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hey, if it voids the warranty, then defintely dont open. ..
> 
> Yep, I bought my Mjolnir used so it didn't include them. Were they only an aftermarket purchase?


Hey, I guess I'll just cry paying the shipping fee.... lol

I believe the tubes that came with the mjolnir is whatever is listed on their site. They didnt have a brand or anything but they look just like the JJs that I just got. I haven't had a chance to roll tubes since they're so expensive.


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## shafat777 (Oct 23, 2022)

If anyone interested, I have listed my cap modded MJ2 for sale in the classified section. I have a Caying HA-6A tube amp coming in a few days so i have decided to part ways with my rare 1 of 4 in existence tube hybrid amp.


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## billerb1

Since I moved to the Telefunken G73R's, my former #1 Telefunken ECC801S's (matched pair) are now available in the Classifieds.  Great deal.
PM me.


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## ShortBtwnHdset (Nov 2, 2022)

Hi All!

I wanted to give an update. I have started stage 2 mods, system has been down a few weeks, but I'm getting closer to being finished. These V-Cap Odams are a little larger than the low grade film caps that came out, and fitting them is a pain, requiring spacers and careful placement and extended leads.

The Audio Note silver resistors are installed, I believe these are in the tube signal path, there has to be a reason Schiit went with thru hole resistors here instead of SMD.

I decided to leave the large PS caps in, and piggy-back smaller, lower ESR electrolytics at approx 1% of the rail capacitance, then bypass that with film at approx 1% of that. So for the 680 uF 250V caps, 680uF X 2 = 1360uF, used a single 15uF electrolytic and a single .1 uF film (I did check with an ohm-meter, the PS cap pairs seem to be tied together). On the regulated rails (150V  and 14V on transformer labeling) I also bypassed the smaller caps after the regulator with film. Decided not to bypass the 19V rails that I assume are the beef behind the mosfets, they have active noise cancelling and I'm not sure if I would mess something up there.

In doing the pre-out balanced output caps , I trimmed the leads too short on an electrolytic and made that cap unusable. I've had to purchase another ,ordered that tonight. I still have to start installing the 3 ODAMS on the bottom back side of the board, once everything else is in place. I'll finally need to widen the holes on the bottom plate and add one small hole.

My biggest area of concern are the small electrolytics on the bottom back of the board. leads on the 8.5V rail are awful close to the case of the cap, may need to redo that one.

Anyway, pics included, Ya'll have a great night.

Edit: sorry guys, must have been tired, cap values are now corrected, and rail voltages.


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## ShortBtwnHdset (Nov 14, 2022)

Hey Gang!

In answer to all who may be wondering, no, I haven't burnt the house down!!!  The project has been on standby, as I've been busy both in town and out.

Honestly, I was also a little bit intimidated. When I did the last mod, my soldering skills must have been better, or I don't know what changed, but I keep coming up with cold solder joints, indicating the solder is just not flowing well. The soldering iron is a nice Hakko digital station, along with a standalone Weller wand 60 watt (new), so I don't think it's those. I haven't changed the solder from what I used last time. But heat just doesn't seem to be flowing into the solder joints. I've had to redo nearly every connection, and had to use crap tons of flux (leaves a real mess). Fitting everything has been a bitch as well , these V-caps are a good deal larger than the film caps they replaced.

Anyway, finally installed the last of the caps, I'll need to get out the manifying glass and closely reinspect the entire board before I reassemble everything. Oh, and the case fit will be tight, may have to install a washer under each bottom plate screw to improve the clearance on a few connections. Still have to enlarge cutout's and add one on the bottom plate.

A couple of pics included for any curious. Y'all have a great night!!!


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## gumisb

If you want to improve tube filament heating circuit before final closure the chassis there is way to do that by increasing capacity of two 1000uF/25V capacitors near power switch. Voltage for heaters are controlled by two voltage regulators LF60A with fixed voltage of 6V and according to data sheet up to 0.5A with limit of 1A.  Jason Stoddard is clever guy and decide to use high PSRR for low frequency of this regulator to control also maximum current by limiting capacity of input caps. With ripples  ca. 1.8 V current limit is ca.400mA. With increased capacity on input we get smaller ripples more room for voltage regulator. As usual there is no free lunch. On power on when tubes are cold and resistance is quite low heater circuit will go with 1A so for 300mA tubes  current will be over 3 times higher which could shorten tube life.


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## ShortBtwnHdset (Nov 14, 2022)

Hey Gumisb! Thanks for the input, I've pretty much decided that's it for the scope of this mod. Whether I ever do a stage 3 is undetermined right now. Also, I've experienced tube 'flash' already on some RFT tubes, pretty sure that's shortening their life as well, don't want to make that happen any more than it already does. Might reconsider in future if I can figure a way to add a soft start to it.


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## gumisb

You have full picture, you decide. According to some research lowering tube heater voltage from specified 6.3 V to 6V as we have extends tubes life about 50% so I have no problem to short a little bit that period


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## ShortBtwnHdset (Nov 28, 2022)

Hey All! Finally finished it up, got it put back together, and playing music! Now I've got a few hundred hours burn in needed for the V-caps, but it already sounds better than it did when it first powered up. My experience has been that the electrolytics are quick to burn in.

 It will be a while before I'll be able to tell whether mod was worth it. About to take out the stock tubes and run the solid state tubes for burn in.

Pics included, look how far the V-caps stick out of the case!!! Will be getting bushings and another bottom to mount on bottom of the other for shock protection. For now, I'm happy it's working!


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## ShortBtwnHdset (Nov 28, 2022)

So, burned in the motherboard overnight w/solid state tubes. I've got to say, the difference in heat between the solid state tubes and the actual 6DJ8's was suprising to me. Amp releatively cool to the touch with the solid state, run's VERY warm with the tubes even in a short time. Maybe even a little over what it was, which makes me wonder. I'll need to watch that closely, may even need to pipe an ammeter in to see if I'm drawing more juice than I should on the tube heaters.  Plan on getting home after work and continuing burn in with generic tubes, but amp is off right now, just don't want to leave that running without some presence in case something were to go wrong. Most likely fuse would blow, but you never know, Drummer Boy posted here that his smoked and was routing power thru the volume control (volume knob was too hot to touch).

External PS mod for the heater rail might be a better idea than I originally thought. So, I will likely have to post this question elsewhwere, but if a transformer secondary ends up not being used, does that up voltages on the other secondaries??? Or does Shiit have some sort of compensation in the Mjolnir or solid state tube circuit for when SS tubes are run? Or, is the higher voltages on the other secondaries within tolerances  for nominal operations? Hmmm....

Anyway, thought I would add this. Ya'll have a great day!


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## gumisb

There is no problem to run amp without heating connected. Regulators for tubes heating are marked in circles. If you remove them you have perfect spot to connect GND(big pad) and+ from external regulator by for example banana socket mounted on back of the chassis . It could be even simple universal bench power supply with regulated amperage and voltage. after this regulator originally is only 1000uF cap bypassed by small ceramic near each tube.


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## ShortBtwnHdset (Nov 28, 2022)

Hey Gumisb! That's the heater regulator? I had assumed that had to do with the balanced pre outputs because of location on board. Dang, those v-caps are wasted, if that's the case.

Edit: Man, I wish Schiit would furnish a schematic on this. I'm all for the 'Right to repair' movement. I understand Jason's reluctance, given the hazards involved with amatuer Techs working on gear and proprietary nature of the design, but this is a model that was taken off market. It sure would help to have a roadmap.


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## gumisb (Nov 28, 2022)

Those are components of tubes heating. Two caps close to regulators seems to be "dirty" symmetric power supply mentioned somewhere in this thread (not part of heating circuit)


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## ShortBtwnHdset (Nov 28, 2022)

Wow, thanks for that, Gumisb!

So, the other 1000 uF caps surrounding tubes are not part of that heater circuit? Just goes to show, working 'blind' really ain't beneficial! So it looks like two of the v-caps ( the largest cut-outs, of course) were un-necessary. Those electrolytics could have easily been bypassed with cheap WIMA MKS-4 caps, at a much smaller size and hugely lower price. Sigh..... Those were hard to do, and expensive. Most of this also falls on me not confirming voltages before modding. Problem is, there is no easy way to do this, as the  bottom plate is the heat-sink for mosfets. They'd burn up without it. There are insulators under each (and insulating collars), so I imagine the mosfets can't be grounded, or at least tied together. I guess I could have gotten small seperate HS's for each, just to allow run-up and confirmation of voltages at specific points. Now that mods are done, the voltages at these points should be easy to confirm, but not so before mod. Crap! Well, this was and is all an experiment. What I've done previously has improved the sound, and I think this mod will as well. Could it have been done cheaper, yes. Could it have been done less invasively, yes. But I didn't know that coming in to it, and as far as I've seen, no one has done a similar mod.

Well, anyway, that does make an external supply much more feasable. For any contemplating modding their Mjolnir, hopefully you can learn from my mistakes. I'm not a technician, definitely not an engineer, just a hack with the desire and some basic skills..


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## ShortBtwnHdset

So, a quick update. Mod has about 24 Hrs of burn in on it, the caps seem to be breaking in nicely. I don't think this mod will take nearly as many hours to normalize as the last. Many people scoff at the idea of cap burn in times, especially some of the Cap manufacturers  recomendations for burn in hours. I myself fully believe it, especially with higher voltage caps and copper foil caps in particular. This collection of caps seems to need a lot less. That makes sense, as these were rated at much lower voltages than the last round. The Mundorf replacements (stage 1 mod) were 1000V. The V-caps on this mod are rated at 250V, the Wima's and electrolytics much lower.  

Temps have come down as well, case temp is where it was before, very warm after 30 min or more of operation. Initially, the sound was pretty harsh, grainy, congested, and spiky/peaky. At this point, the sound is maybe a bit overly punchy with the Verite's, leading edges are overly snappy, but not by a lot. This is similar to what I experienced after the last mod, it's almost as if the caps over control directly after install, and burn in allows them to loosen up and let the music flow. Midrange was especially constricted at first power up, and that has already loosened by a large degree. Male vocals are already good, and female vocals are gaining, they seem to be at the same place I was before the mod.m There is also more inner detail, but not by a lot. As I've said before, my hearing loss from working on aircraft engines, as well as age, has rolled off my hearing pretty sharply past approx 11 KHz, but I do seem to be hearing a small bump in percieved treble. My Verite's sound good un-EQ'ed, a first for me. I'll revisit my impressions later when I have more hours on them, but I am likeing what I'm hearing. Oh, and all these impressions were gained using the stock, many many hours on them, original 6DJ8 tubes, so I'm hoping tube rolling will be even more beneficial.

On a seperate note, having problems with Amazon Music on my laptop. Laptop's hooked to a e-GPU, USB from there is going into Gungnir DAC. Whenever I run Amazon Music I get a small crackling sound when my mouse pointer crosses any graphics transition. If pointer left parked in a non transition space in window, no crackling. And it only happens with Amazon music, if I stream from Youtube/Crunchyroll/Netflix it doesnt crop up. Currently using laptop while I'm rebuilding my home desktop, so problem will likely be solved with a fresh format, but I've been searching for a solution onlineover the last several days with no success. Weird.

Hope Ya'll have a great day!!!


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## ShortBtwnHdset (Dec 5, 2022)

Hi All!

Tubes are still burning in, somewhwere around the 60-75 hr mark, so that's good. Unfortunatley, had a few disaster's happen Friday, and may no longer be qualified to evaluate stage 2 mods.  I'm kinda pissed about it, too.

I mentioned I was having problems with Amazon music. Well, after getting my desktop computer back together with a new SSD and a new installation of Windows, installed Amazon Music, but was having strange volume issues. Wasn't thinking about it, had my headphones on, volume was acting really wierd, looked on taskbar and two instances of Amazon were running, seemingly fighting each other. Suddenly one instance dropped, and volume went to half or more on the dial, peircing loud. Yup, just took out some highs from my hearing. Crap!!!!

To make matters worse, 11:30 that same night the fire alarm went off in our condos, and it's peircing loud as well. So, I've listened to headphones since, I'm definitely hearing less treble than I was, and what I was hearing was limited. Arrrg!!! Have since uninstalled and reinstalling Amazon, fixed that issue, for what it's worth.

Anyway's taking a break for a week or so, let my ears heal. Damage is done, but right now my ears are overly sensitive and need time. Will reevaluate later.

Ya'll have a good night!


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## ShortBtwnHdset

Hey, Everyone! Well, it's been a little more than a week, slowly working headphone listening back into my days. I started back mid last week listening at maybe a third the volume I used to (or lower), couldn't listen for over a song or two without sensitivity, at this point I'm around a little less than half where I used to listen at, decible wise. Still not listening for long, maybe a few songs and some gaming/vid streaming. I have lost some highs, cymbals have lost some shimmer and triangles are more recesssed, but not as bad as I had initially thought. Still going to take it very slowly, I'll try not to get to a listening fatigue point.  

I had several tubes sets on order before all this happened, and they are beginning to trickle in, wish I had held off, but that's water under the bridge. Currently listening to a pair of GE 6201 5 stars, Train's 'Drops of Jupiter' sounds good! Strange, though, the heaters seem to glow a little brighter than all the others I've tried. Anyway, Ya'll have agreat night!


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## ShortBtwnHdset (Dec 17, 2022)

Hi All! So, my volume tolerance is finally getting back to normal, and I'm sooo glad!!! Most of my upper treble is back, though some shimmer is missing.

The 2nd stage mod is settling in very nicely, detail retrieval is markedly better, so much so that I'm not even regretting the extra money and the set backs. It's just unreal the gains this 2nd mod has enabled, easily as much as the first. And it may be that some of what I'm hearing is further refinements openiing up the first mods strengths.

First, instruments leading and trailing edges are much better defined, making melody line very destinct. Santana's "Shaman" album is a prime example. Santana 's lead will often have quick little flurries of notes in a riff, often at the end of a lead phrase. They tended to blur together before the mod, but now are articulated clearly. Instrument body has solidified more, both with singers, acoustic instruments, and drum strikes, sometimes uncannily so! Stacy Kent's 'Raconte-Moi' album is incredible, the way her voice and the Piano/Bass/Guitar/and Highhat fill the space, erie!!! I could listen to her sing french to me all day. And the noise floor must have dropped some more, I was listening to some Robert Palmer hits, off of "Sneakin Sally thru the Alley/Riptide/Double Fun/& Heavy Nova, and hidden melody lines on low level/background instruments became clear. What was once musical fuzz gained definition.

I still think these caps are loosening up, or at least that's my hope. I would say I maybe have a hundred or so hours on them, lost 2 weeks where I maybe listened for 4 or so hours in total while my ears were healing. Tonight's the first night that I've seriously listened since. All this is still on the GE tubes, I'm about to power off and tube roll with something special.

As to the tubes on order, Christmas shipping must be causing delays. Both orders are from other countries, I've got 7 prs coming from DBtubes and 2 sets of Siemens from the Netherlands. I'm also liking these GE's enough I'll order a few pairs of them.

Hope Ya'll have a great night! Merry Christmas, and happy listening!


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## bcowen

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> I still think these caps are loosening up, or at least that's my hope. I would say I maybe have a hundred or so hours on them, lost 2 weeks where I maybe listened for 4 or so hours in total while my ears were healing. Tonight's the first night that I've seriously listened since. *All this is still on the GE tubes, I'm about to power off and tube roll with something special.*
> 
> As to the tubes on order, Christmas shipping must be causing delays. Both orders are from other countries, I've got 7 prs coming from DBtubes and 2 sets of Siemens from the Netherlands. I'm also liking these GE's enough I'll order a few pairs of them.


Which would be virtually any other tube.   🤣  🤣 

(sorry, couldn't help myself)


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## ShortBtwnHdset (Dec 17, 2022)

Hey, Bcowen! I actually think the 6201’s are kinda nice, for an average day to day listen! Better than current production tubes I’ve tried. I ended up leaving ‘special’ for later. Rolledin some Phillips 7062 SQ’s for now, just a random pic from my ‘tall boys’! Need a few hours burn in on them before evaluating. Ended up having a late night of listening! Might need to take it easy for a day, let ears rest.

You still listening to your Folkvangr? I need to visit that thread just to see what’s up. Seen a few of them for sale on the used market, again, out of my league, but they sure look beautiful.

I think I’m finally at the point where I need to stop buying tubes. I’ve got stock for years of rolling, I was trying to build up before NOS availability and price became outrageous. Yep, I think we’re there, so enough’s enough. I’ve got a good and varied supply of tubes, with a few outstanding examples, and my Mjolnir is revealing enough to take best advantage of them.

Really wish I had a few thousand to get a pair of Caldera’s, but that ain’t happening anytime soon. Next Audio things to work on are my power conditioner and getting the Unison USB upgrade for my Gungnir.

Have a great day!


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## bcowen

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hey, Bcowen! I actually think the 6201’s are kinda nice, for an average day to day listen! Better than current production tubes I’ve tried. I ended up leaving ‘special’ for later. Rolledin some Phillips 7062 SQ’s for now, just a random pic from my ‘tall boys’! Need a few hours burn in on them before evaluating. Ended up having a late night of listening! Might need to take it easy for a day, let ears rest.
> 
> You still listening to your Folkvangr? I need to visit that thread just to see what’s up. Seen a few of them for sale on the used market, again, out of my league, but they sure look beautiful.
> 
> ...


Yes, still listening to Folkvangr.  Just received a 2nd 6922 -> 12A*7 adapter I needed, so today I'll roll in the Brimar Footscray CV4033's and see how they do (hopefully the higher gain won't be an issue).  Differences in tube sound are pretty pronounced with Folkvangr, and more so than many other amps I've tried.  I wasn't at all impressed with the stock 6N1P's. My first roll was a pair of '74 SWGP 6N23P's, and man they took things to an entirely different level.  Have some early '60's Tungsram 6922's in there right now which sound different (but not necessarily 'better' than the 6N23P's) so I'm eager to see what the Footscray's do.  That tube is the pinnacle of my rolling adventures in the Vali 2.


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## ShortBtwnHdset (Dec 17, 2022)

Seems to me I haven’t listened to my 2 pairs of Brimars in a while, may need to rotate them in. Last time I checked, shortly after mod 1, the cv455’s did not sound good at all, but I also have the cv4033’s,  probably not the Footscrays, but worth a retry.


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## ShortBtwnHdset

Hey Bcowen, glad you reminded me of the CV-4033's! Dug them out of the closet, had forgotten what a wonderful warm tube that is! Nora Jones is wonderful on 'em! Great tune, lounge lizard crooner goodness, Michael Buble and Nelly Furtado doing "Quando, Quando, Quando", what fun! Even does Creedence well! Missing maybe just a touch when the mix gets loud, as compared to a good Siemens. Nice enough that I ordered another pair before they're gone. Thanks!!!


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## bcowen

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hey Bcowen, glad you reminded me of the CV-4033's! Dug them out of the closet, had forgotten what a wonderful warm tube that is! Nora Jones is wonderful on 'em! Great tune, lounge lizard crooner goodness, Michael Buble and Nelly Furtado doing "Quando, Quando, Quando", what fun! Even does Creedence well! Missing maybe just a touch when the mix gets loud, as compared to a good Siemens. Nice enough that I ordered another pair before they're gone. Thanks!!!


Cool!  Credit where it's due though:  @jonathan c is the one that turned me on to them.  

Got to listen a bit to them in Folkvangr last night, but not as long as I wanted.  One of the tubes has several hundred hours on it as I was using it as a single in Vali 2, but the other tube was unused.  Tried to allow some play time to get that one up to speed, but I have a patience problem.      Initially they sound very good in Folkvangr, but missing some bass heft and impact.  Good extension there, just lacking the visceral feel.  Mids are to die for, and the treble is sweet and clean.  Gonna allow some more play time to see if the bass will improve, and if so they might be a truly killer pick for Folkvangr.


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## ShortBtwnHdset

In that case, thanks Jonathan! What are you rolling these days?


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## jonathan c (Dec 18, 2022)

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> In that case, thanks Jonathan! What are you rolling these days?


For 12AT7 / ECC81 tubes: Brimar CV455 KB/FB, RFT ECC81 (foil getter), Tungsram ECC81 (foil getter), Mullard 6201 (gold pin), GEC / M-O-V A2900…🤷🏻‍♂️ EDIT: these are rolled in Icon Audio HP8, Linear Tube Audio MZ3, Woo Audio WA3, Woo Audio WA6.


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## shafat777

jonathan c said:


> For 12AT7 / ECC81 tubes: Brimar CV455 KB/FB, RFT ECC81 (foil getter), Tungsram ECC81 (foil getter), Mullard 6201 (gold pin), GEC / M-O-V A2900…🤷🏻‍♂️


Yepp those are exactly what i use to roll with my MJ2. I was torn between the CV455 vs the 4033 foootscray but i loved the Rft foil getters. I think those have the best Air/sparkle out of all the tubes mentioned above, IMHO. I loved these so much that i use a set of them in my elise OTL  w/ adapters. These give the sylvania vt231 a run for its money in the top end. Unforutnately, never got to own or listen to the GECs though.


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## ShortBtwnHdset

Hey Shafat777! Did you end up selling your Footscrays or RFT FG spares?


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## shafat777

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hey Shafat777! Did you end up selling your Footscrays or RFT FG spares?


Nope i still got those


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## ShortBtwnHdset (Dec 19, 2022)

Hey Gang!

So, I did about 8 hrs of burn in yesterday, set up my Grado clones at half volume and put 4 albums on repeat thoughout the day. Made a real difference in loosening up these caps after Mods. Currently subbed in the CV-4033's, MAN, my system is sounding good! Vocals are finally at that throat presence level, background and enviromental sounds coming from all around, and scads of tone and detail, including hearing instruments masked by the noise floor before. Was listening to Hall and Oates, of all things, was cherry-picking "She's Gone" from the album , a track I liketo evaluate with, and ended up listening to the whole album, something I've never done. I think the mod's are done for me, this is a Keeper!!! It even sounds good with stock tubes!

If I had any doubts before, they are finally resolved. Had thought about stage 3 mod (external heater supply), just don't see the need now. Have a bunch of tubes on the way, will post picks and impressions.

Only thing left is making a bottom and standoffs to protect hands from those exposed lower caps. I'll start looking into that this week.

Ya'll have a great tommorow!!!


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## ShortBtwnHdset (Dec 21, 2022)

Hi ALL!

2 packages arrived today, will have some fun this weekend! Still have to run them up and make sure all is good. Will do that tonight, but probably won't get much listening done.

First package was from Dbtubes, the smaller tubes in the middle are RCA 5965's and 5965A's (not sure if there is a difference), they were on sale for $10 and $19 apiece, figure I can't go wrong for casual listening and burn in purposes.

2nd package is from Shafat777, thanks Shafat!!! I look forward to extended listening on both!

2 more tube sets on the way, and then I really do need to chain up my impulse buying persona, I really do have a problem!!!

Anyway, Ya'll have a great night!


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## ShortBtwnHdset (Dec 21, 2022)

Hi again! SO, I tested all the tubes that came in, I have one pair that's very slightly microphonic (GE JAN 6414W's), otherwise the rest are all working great. Couple of observations, it seems all the 'Tall Boy's' (7062, E180CC, 6414,6829) seem to be similar construction, halo single post getter, 2 mica black plates. I would assume them to be of very similar sound. Of the two short pairs from Dbtubes (5965,5965A), one is an oddball I've never seen. It's a side getter!!! Never seen that before, very strange. If the getter was spaced evenly at the side but between the plates, or aligned with the plates, I might view it as a competant engineered tube, but these getters seem to bisect one of the edges of the plate, and the getter is bent as if a halo was then wrapped half way around a rod to give it a curve, bizarre!  Almost like it was tacked on as an afterthought.
I can't say I have extensive knowledge about tubes, but this seems strange to me.

Edit: Forgot to mention, Shaffat's pair of Footscrays confirmed to me that mine are Footscrays as well, no wonder I thought they sounded excellent!


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## ShortBtwnHdset

Hi All! first of the last two packages arrived today! here we have a BEL ECC88 70's Halo getter Indian tube, another Pulse Tube store purchase. He's had these listed for a while on his site, and always wanted to try them out. Other package I'm waiting on is some Siemens E88CC Gold Pin's from a fellow Head Fi'er. This looks to be a good weekend for listening, as weather outside will likely be terrible, several family members flights have been cancelled, so a very low key but extended weekend. Have a great night, and Happy Holidays!!!


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## ShortBtwnHdset

Hi All! Just wanted to give a little update. It's been about two weeks, finally recalibrated Peace EQ to my current hearing. The prognosis isn't as bad as I thought, but I did loose a little after that incident(s).  It will take a few days of playing with levels while listening before I finally settle on a good all around curve. Trying to get it to the point where it sounds very good at a slightly lower level than I used to listen to. I have it close, might be a hair bright.

The 2nd stage mods have settled in nicely, but I am still considering a stage 3 mod, mainly consisting of bypassing those eight 10,000 uF caps. I'm pretty sure that's whats powering the FET's. It would be a shame not to take this amp as far as I can, it just sounds so good already that i want to max it. I know that many of you are likely waiting on the Mjolnir 3's debut, I'd be curious to pit my Mjolnir 2 against it! 

Not sure if I already posted this here, but I'm waiting on a used Wywires Platinum copper HP cable I impulse bought New Years Day. And I'm still waiting on some Siemens E88CC's, been stuck at US customs for a week. Other than that, I'm just enjoying listening! Hope all of Ya'll have a great night!

Edit: By the way, maybe now would be a good time to start a Mjonir 3 thread, or start posting about it here.Just a thought!!!


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## jonathan c

ShortBtwnHdset said:


> Hi All! Just wanted to give a little update. It's been about two weeks, finally recalibrated Peace EQ to my current hearing. The prognosis isn't as bad as I thought, but I did loose a little after that incident(s).  It will take a few days of playing with levels while listening before I finally settle on a good all around curve. Trying to get it to the point where it sounds very good at a slightly lower level than I used to listen to. I have it close, might be a hair bright.
> 
> The 2nd stage mods have settled in nicely, but I am still considering a stage 3 mod, mainly consisting of bypassing those eight 10,000 uF caps. I'm pretty sure that's whats powering the FET's. It would be a shame not to take this amp as far as I can, it just sounds so good already that i want to max it. I know that many of you are likely waiting on the Mjolnir 3's debut***. I'd be curious to pit my Mjolnir 2 against it!
> 
> ...


*** Samuel Beckett reprise?  _Waiting For Mjolnot…_


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## shafat777

Can  someone plz recommend me a set of 12at7 equivalent tubes that are bassy, warm, low end heavy (almost top end roll off), like a tube that can be used to tame a analytical headphone, a tube that can smooth out top end harshness. I am trying to tune in my cap modded MJ2 with a DCA expanse. 

Thank you


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## ShortBtwnHdset (Sunday at 5:28 PM)

It's not a 12a type, but I've tested a GE Smoked Glass 6DJ8/ECC88 that was like that, and a Ken Rad 6414 that was similar. Not sure where you'd find the first, but DB tubes probably still has the other (Ken Rad)
Edit: Actually, the Ken Rad is a 12a pinout!


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## ShortBtwnHdset

Hi All! New pair of headphones took up residence! Wow, I see what the hypes about! Currently un-Eq'd and they sound fantastic! Got a great buy on them off of US Audiomart, supposedly 2020 version, in great shape! Another great/late night awaits!!


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